Naruto

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha, ok. That sucka was scuuuured :p

[KalKai]

Yes, that's why he's facing Itachi, because he's scuuured. :p

[Colossal Spoons]

He's angry, that's what he is. Itachi's driven the poor boy insane :(

[topnotch]

He's angry, that's what he is. Itachi's driven the poor boy insane :(
I agree

[Sloth7d]

You see how his hands were shaking though? Sasuke ain't ready :D





Remember the Zabuza fight where he was shaking with eagerness? Yeah! Sasukes gonna hax out a magenkyo somehow, I just know it.

[Colossal Spoons]

At this point, I'm sure tying your shoelaces w/ your eyes closed is the way to unlock the MS so you're probably right :o

[uchiha_itachi]

i really hope itachi owns sasuke. dont get me wrong i really like sasuke, but i really want itachi to beat him.

[skaar23]

At this point, I'm sure tying your shoelaces w/ your eyes closed is the way to unlock the MS so you're probably right :o

hey i can tie my shoelaces with my eyes close.

[uchiha_itachi]

do you have the MS?!?! :wow:

[Colossal Spoons]

i really hope itachi owns sasuke. dont get me wrong i really like sasuke, but i really want itachi to beat him.

Me too. He's def angry enough for revenge but he needs to go train for a few more years. His focus ain't there

[skaar23]

do you have the MS?!?! :wow:

almost dude. ive been working on it. You'll be the first one to know bout it whenever if figure it out. BELIEVE IT !!!!

[uchiha_itachi]

it better be true, other wise i will actually be upset..

[skaar23]

Believe It !!!!!

[Colossal Spoons]

Have fun going blind!

[Purple Prancer]

**** edit

[uchiha_itachi]

Have fun going blind!

im sure theres away around it...madara isn't going blind is he?

[Colossal Spoons]

im sure theres away around it...madara isn't going blind is he?

He should also be like 500 years old so he's obviously an exception lol

[uchiha_itachi]

lol that is very true

[skaar23]

thanks buddy.

i have a question on the last manga that came out when sasuke says so thats the price you pay for gaining control over the nine tailed fox. Does that mean if you have the MS you can control the nine tailed????

[uchiha_itachi]

it looks like the sharingan has another ability we dont know about, that only madara has unlocked.

EDIT : put that in spoilers since its about the new manga

[Colossal Spoons]

Oy, that damn eye needs some limits.

[uchiha_itachi]

i kindda like having loads of mystery with an ability we all thought we knew everything about from the start.

[skaar23]

so, Uchiha Itachi how are you doing today???

[skaar23]

He should also be like 500 years old so he's obviously an exception lol

maybe he turned himself into a puppet like sasori. lol

[uchiha_itachi]

not bad, going to bed soon though. gotta get up to meet some mates for a game off football.

i never play at all, but thought meh i might as well try it lol

i may also join a team my mates are putting together if i like it..

how bout u?

[skaar23]

just got back from basketball game. We lost by 17 points yea it was a close game. lol
next time we play the same school im gonna use my MS to them.

[uchiha_itachi]

lol make them think there winning by a mile, when all there really doing is standing there

[uchiha_itachi]

meh im off to bed, its like 1:40 and im getting up at 9 ( maybe) lol

laters!

[skaar23]

1:40???? where you at???? its only 5:30 at my place. lol

[uchiha_itachi]

im in the UK

[Lucy in the sky]

maybe he turned himself into a puppet like sasori. lol

Didn't the third meet the 1st and 2nd in his lifetime? I'm confused as to how old konoha is.:huh:

[mfbtl]

Good question ... it would make sense for about 120 years maybe just 100.

[The observer]

I think its around 100.... yeah the tird met the 1st and the 2nd, and they looked young too... but the 1st is tsunades grandad.

[uchiha_itachi]

i always get really confused to how old the 4th was...

[mfbtl]

I don't know if this is a spoiler or not, but oh well. I would say he was probably about Kakashi's age. If not a hair younger.

[Jecht]

I don't know if this is a spoiler or not, but oh well. I would say he was probably about Kakashi's age. If not a hair younger.
The 4th was his sensei, he couldn't be younger.

[The observer]

yeah, have you seen kakashi gaiden?

[Sloth7d]

Well, Jiraiya's in his fifties and the fourth was his student when Jiraiya was young. So I'd say, if he was alive, he'd be around his late thirties or early fourties.

[uchiha_itachi]

so theres like a 20 year gap between jiariya, the 4th and kakashi

[The observer]

yeah, 20 sounds right. the 4th looks around 30 in kakashi gaiden, where kakashis 13

[skaar23]

you guys think that the 4th hokage is stronger than jiraiya

[najnaimik23]

you guys think that the 4th hokage is stronger than jiraiya

i think so.

[The observer]

the 4th>all

[Iron Fist]

:up:

[skaar23]

cool. then how bout pein versus 4th hokage???

is there a list of naruto's strongest character??? cuz i really want to know whos the strongest.

[Lucy in the sky]

cool. then how bout pein versus 4th hokage???

is there a list of naruto's strongest character??? cuz i really want to know whos the strongest.

That depends on writing and who needs to be strongest at the time:o

[mfbtl]

The 4th was his sensei, he couldn't be younger.

*sigh*I was refering to Kakashi's current age. To quote Doc Brown from Back to the Future, " You aren't thinking fourth dimentionally!"

[Neptune]

Did anybody see shippuden 43?

What do you think Sai is up to? More importantly, why would Orochimaru let him live?

[uchiha_itachi]

i didnt know it was out yet,ill check it out

[uchiha_itachi]

meh i have no idea what sai is doing

[Lucy in the sky]

*sigh*I was refering to Kakashi's current age. To quote Doc Brown from Back to the Future, " You aren't thinking fourth dimentionally!"

he'd be 29-30

[The observer]

cool. then how bout pein versus 4th hokage???

is there a list of naruto's strongest character??? cuz i really want to know whos the strongest.


the 4th would laugh at pein, pimpslap him into the next dimension, and teach 5 year olds while doing it. The 4th is the strongest. He would pwn anyone, including madara.






take that uchihatards:cmad:

[The observer]

meh i have no idea what sai is doing


all in good time

[skaar23]

the 4th would laugh at pein, pimpslap him into the next dimension, and teach 5 year olds while doing it. The 4th is the strongest. He would pwn anyone, including madara.






take that uchihatards:cmad:

how can you be so sure that the 4th can beat madara???

[Colossal Spoons]

^seriously. I've never seen the 4th fight so who knows how strong he is

[The observer]

simple. he is protected by plot no jutsu. kishi said he was the most powerful ninja ever, so he is. (I know thats weak, but ill prove it later. that is a valid point however.)

[The observer]

in the 3rd nin war, 4 had flee on sight orders. he took down and sealed the kyuubi, who madara summoned and controled with the sharingans ultimate power.
more later if you need it, but 4th>all

[skaar23]

in the 3rd nin war, 4 had flee on sight orders. he took down and sealed the kyuubi, who madara summoned and controled with the sharingans ultimate power.
more later if you need it, but 4th>all

yea but the fourth died doing that and i think that the fourth wouldnt sealed the kyuubi if he thinks hes stronger than the kyuubi. but madara controll the kyuubi like a pet making him superior over the kyuubi. right?

[The observer]

remember, that was the sharingans ultimate power. minato beat it to a standstill, and created an awesome weapon for the village while doing it. he only died because of the death god

[skaar23]

remember, that was the sharingans ultimate power. minato beat it to a standstill, and created an awesome weapon for the village while doing it. he only died because of the death god

so are you saying that the 4th is stronger than the nine tailed fox????

[mfbtl]

I'd say he is craftyer.

[Neptune]

Wouldn't it be a great twist if it turns out that the 4th is Naruto's dad or Naruto himself. He looks like Naruto, he peformed the kyuubi seal. He was nowhere to be found when they found a baby Naruto. His name kinda sounds like Naruto and We don't know anything about Naruto's parents.

[oakzap425]

Wouldn't it be a great twist if it turns out that the 4th is Naruto's dad or Naruto himself. He looks like Naruto, he peformed the kyuubi seal. He was nowhere to be found when they found a baby Naruto. His name kinda sounds like Naruto and We don't know anything about Naruto's parents.

If you know his name sounds like Naruto's, assuming, you know Yondaime's name... why did you make this statement?

[Neptune]

Oh my bad i thought he had a different name.

[Purple Prancer]

Oh ****, next week:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/fireblaze614/orochimaru.jpg

[Genesis 1.0]

Wouldn't it be a great twist if it turns out that the 4th is Naruto's dad or Naruto himself. He looks like Naruto, he peformed the kyuubi seal. He was nowhere to be found when they found a baby Naruto. His name kinda sounds like Naruto and We don't know anything about Naruto's parents.

Am I the only person that finds this statement suspsect?:huh:

In any case, having never seen the 4th in action beyond the Obito flashback, I wouldn't say he was the strongest of all. However, going on feats and his ability to create jutsu like the Death God's Seal, I'd definitely leave that possibility open.

[hulkamania]

Real spoilers inside
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:-qCaTsW7GF-8CM:http://img.networkanime.com/fanarts/autres/fanarts-38.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.networkanime.com/fanarts/autres/fanarts-38.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fr.networkanime.com/index-cat-fanarts-id-38.html&h=960&w=1280&sz=310&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=-qCaTsW7GF-8CM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmangekyou%2Bsharingan%2Bsmiley%26svnu m%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:L1qUigzH2u9s-M:http://images.minitokyo.net:8001/view/180284.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.minitokyo.net:8001/view/180284.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stage6.com/ANIME-LAB/blog/&h=240&w=320&sz=11&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=L1qUigzH2u9s-M:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmangekyou%2Bsharingan%26svnum%3D10%26 um%3D1%26hl%3Den) :woot:
Source: 2ch----> I got it from Mangahelpers
Verification: Confirmed
Credits: Himajin

イタチが昔話をする
「うちはマダラにも兄弟がいた。・・・弟だ。幼き頃より2人は互いを高めあった
そして2人は車輪眼を開眼し2人はいつしか一族の中でも特別になっていった
2人は更なる成長を求め競い合い兄弟は・・・ついにマン毛狂車輪眼を体得したのだ」

更に続く
「しかし、順調だったマダラの身にある異変が生じる
　大きな瞳力を・・・その力を得る代わりにその力は自ら閉じ光を失う
　絶望したマダラは」

マダラ「許せ・・・」
弟「ぎゃー」

イタチ
「自ら弟の両眼を奪い取ったのだ
　マダラは新たな光を手に入れた。そして・・・もう二度とその眼に光が閉じる事はなかった。永遠のマン毛狂 車輪眼！」

まあ、こんな感じでつらつらと。そしてイタチ

イタチ「サ　ス　ケ　ェ！！
　　　　　俺はお前にとっての新たな光だ！お前はおれのスペアだ！！さあ来い！弟よ！！

↑
サスケがイタチの心の中を見た内容です
サスケェ「全てはこの為か・・・やっと・・・辿り着いた」

（かなり省略してますｗ）

TRANSLATED BELOW

Verification: Confirmed
Source: NF----> I got this from Mangahelpers tooCredits: Himajin (script) - Yasha (translation)


I translated it from the Chinese trans. Please don't kill me if there are any mistakes.

Itachi talks about the past.

Madara also had a brother...a younger brother. The two always competed with each other when they were small. They both activated the Sharingan, which made them special in their clan. They grew up together competing with each other...eventually they obtained the Mangekyo Sharingan through their own understanding.

But some strange changes started to appear in Madara's body. Having gained the tremendous eye power...the price is to lose the eyesight. Madara felt desperate.

Madara: Forgive me...
Younger Brother: Kyaaa

Itachi: He took his younger brother's eyes and with them he could see new light again. The eyes had not lost sight ever since. They became eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

Itachi: SASUKE!! You're my new light! You're my spare!! Come to me, my little brother!!

Sasuke saw all these in Itachi's mind.
Sasuke: So you did everything for this...finally...I understand.

[Genesis 1.0]

Hmmmmm, that has some merit and makes a bit of sense. Hell, this is the one thing NO ONE thought of.

If it's for real that is. I'd like to know the source.

[dr venture]

Real spoilers inside
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:-qCaTsW7GF-8CM:http://img.networkanime.com/fanarts/autres/fanarts-38.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.networkanime.com/fanarts/autres/fanarts-38.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fr.networkanime.com/index-cat-fanarts-id-38.html&h=960&w=1280&sz=310&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=-qCaTsW7GF-8CM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmangekyou%2Bsharingan%2Bsmiley%26svnu m%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:L1qUigzH2u9s-M:http://images.minitokyo.net:8001/view/180284.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.minitokyo.net:8001/view/180284.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stage6.com/ANIME-LAB/blog/&h=240&w=320&sz=11&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=L1qUigzH2u9s-M:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmangekyou%2Bsharingan%26svnum%3D10%26 um%3D1%26hl%3Den) :woot:
Source: 2ch----> I got it from Mangahelpers
Verification: Confirmed
Credits: Himajin

イタチが昔話をする
「うちはマダラにも兄弟がいた。・・・弟だ。幼き頃より2人は互いを高めあった
そして2人は車輪眼を開眼し2人はいつしか一族の中でも特別になっていった
2人は更なる成長を求め競い合い兄弟は・・・ついにマン毛狂車輪眼を体得したのだ」

更に続く
「しかし、順調だったマダラの身にある異変が生じる
　大きな瞳力を・・・その力を得る代わりにその力は自ら閉じ光を失う
　絶望したマダラは」

マダラ「許せ・・・」
弟「ぎゃー」

イタチ
「自ら弟の両眼を奪い取ったのだ
　マダラは新たな光を手に入れた。そして・・・もう二度とその眼に光が閉じる事はなかった。永遠のマン毛狂 車輪眼！」

まあ、こんな感じでつらつらと。そしてイタチ

イタチ「サ　ス　ケ　ェ！！
　　　　　俺はお前にとっての新たな光だ！お前はおれのスペアだ！！さあ来い！弟よ！！

↑
サスケがイタチの心の中を見た内容です
サスケェ「全てはこの為か・・・やっと・・・辿り着いた」

（かなり省略してますｗ）

TRANSLATED BELOW

Verification: Confirmed
Source: NF----> I got this from Mangahelpers tooCredits: Himajin (script) - Yasha (translation)


I translated it from the Chinese trans. Please don't kill me if there are any mistakes.

Itachi talks about the past.

Madara also had a brother...a younger brother. The two always competed with each other when they were small. They both activated the Sharingan, which made them special in their clan. They grew up together competing with each other...eventually they obtained the Mangekyo Sharingan through their own understanding.

But some strange changes started to appear in Madara's body. Having gained the tremendous eye power...the price is to lose the eyesight. Madara felt desperate.

Madara: Forgive me...
Younger Brother: Kyaaa

Itachi: He took his younger brother's eyes and with them he could see new light again. The eyes had not lost sight ever since. They became eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

Itachi: SASUKE!! You're my new light! You're my spare!! Come to me, my little brother!!

Sasuke saw all these in Itachi's mind.
Sasuke: So you did everything for this...finally...I understand.

Wow, if this is true I definitely didn't see that coming

[Genesis 1.0]

Creativity lives it seems.

Although I still don't get why taking someone else's eyes would prevent this, seeing as their eyes would undergo the same strain despite the transplant. But it would explain why Itachi allowed Sasuke to live.

[mfbtl]

I kind of hope that is true. That would make me like Itachi even more.

[hulkamania]

I'm pretty sure it's true. The guy himajin has always and I mean ALWAYS posted true spoilers, and the people at mangahelpers and Narutofan accept his spoilers as true without pictures.

[najnaimik23]

wow thats pretty cool.

[Genesis 1.0]

If it is indeed true, then I'd have to raise Itachi farther up on my scale, above the Uchiha stench.

[uchiha_itachi]

who thinks itachi will actually pull this off?

[mfbtl]

No matter how awsome Itachi is. He isn't a main character.

[The observer]

people will accept anything at narutofan. some of the theories are treated like fact there

[Iron Fist]

From what's been happening in the latest chapters, who has been your favorite character and who has been your least favorite?

[oakzap425]

If this is true. If the next chapter goes down like that. I will no longer read this manga.

[najnaimik23]

who thinks itachi will actually pull this off?

nah i dont think he will. cuz sasuke is more main character than him.

[uchiha_itachi]

but think how much it would change him if he succeeds.

[KalKai]

If this is true. If the next chapter goes down like that. I will no longer read this manga.

Uh how many times have you said that?

You're still here.

[Lucy in the sky]

Creativity lives it seems.

Although I still don't get why taking someone else's eyes would prevent this, seeing as their eyes would undergo the same strain despite the transplant. But it would explain why Itachi allowed Sasuke to live.

That would be explained somehow:oldrazz:

[hulkamania]

FULL SCRIPT AND PICTURES

Verification: Confirmed
Source: NF
Credits: Sho (translation)






http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/4863/image04pitastzy8.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1281/image05pitastkl1.jpg


Script Translation
「九尾を手懐ける瞳力…それ以外にも何かあるってのか？」
"There's something else besides having the eyes to tame the Nine-Tails?"

イタチ「そうだ…そのもうひとつの秘密　それが最も重要な秘密だ」
Itachi: "Yes. And that remaining secret is the most important one."

サスケ「重要な秘密…？何だ？」
Sasuke: "Important secret? What is it?"

サスケ「何だ？教えろ…」
Sasuke: "Answer me! What is it?"

イタチ「少し昔話をしてやろう　うちはの歴史にまつわる話だ」
Itachi: "I'll tell you a little story. One dealing with the history of the Uchiha."

「かつてマダラにも兄弟がいた…弟だ　幼き頃より二人は互いの力を高め合い競い合った」 競い合った"
"A certain Uchiha Madara once had a brother of his own...a younger brother. When they were young, they competed against each other, both growing in power."

「そして二人は写輪眼に開眼し　兄弟の名は一族の中でも特別なものになっていった
"As a result they awakened to the Sharingan. They became known as special brothers even within the clan."

二人は成長を求め競い合い　兄弟はついに万華鏡写輪眼を開眼したのだ」競い合い
"By seeking growth via competition against one another, the brothers finally attained the Mangekyou Sharingan."

「それはうちは一族始まって以来の事だった　そして兄弟はその瞳力うちはを束ね
"That was from the beginning of the Uchiha clan. So with their powerful eyes, the brothers took control of the clan."

兄のマダラはリーダーになった　しかし順調だったマダラの身にある異変が生じ始める
"The older brother, Madara, became leader. However, strange abnormalities began to grow upon his otherwise healthy normal body."

さっき話したな…この眼は特別だと　使えば使うほど封印され行き着く先は全くの闇
"I said it before...these eyes are special. The more you use them, the closer the complete darkness approaches which seals it away."

これが万華鏡写輪眼の末路だ　大きな瞳力を…力を得る代わりにその力は自ら閉じ　光を失う」
"This is the end of the road for the Mangekyou Sharingan. In exchange for that great power...you will shut your 'eyes'...parting with the light."

「マダラは光を取り戻すためあらゆる手を尽くすが何一つ効果を得られるものはなかった "
"Madara exhausted all means for the sake of returning his light, but nothing was effective."

絶望した　そして万華鏡に取り憑かれたマダラは光を求め…」
"He despaired. And so, possessed by the Mangekyou, Madara sought the light..."

マダラ「許せ…」
Madara: "Forgive me."

弟「ぎゃああああ」
Younger brother: "Gyaaaaa!!"

イタチ「自ら弟の両眼を奪い取ったのだ」
Itachi: "He plucked his brother's eyes."

「マダラは新たな光を手に入れた　そしてもう二度とその眼の光は閉じることがなかった
"Madara gained a new light. And never again was his light ever shut away."

永遠の万華鏡写輪眼！ 弟の眼は新しい宿主を得ることで永遠の光を手に入れたという…」
"The eternal Mangekyou Sharingan! Being the new host for his brother's eyes is what is said to give him a new light."

「そしてそればかりか変化を起こした　特有の新しい瞳術がその眼に生まれたのだ
"And so, whether it was just that or not, it caused a change. A unique doujutsu was born from those eyes."

ただし瞳のやりとりは一族間でしか行えない　それにこの方法で誰もが新しい力を手に入れるわけ ではない」
"This is all provided that the exchange of eyes would not be done outside the clan. And by this method, no one would know how to acquire this new power."

「これはその後の多くの犠牲者の歴史の上に築かれた事実…それがこの眼のもう一つの秘密だ」
"After that, a reality of countless victims piled up over the course of this history... That is the remaining secret of these eyes."

「マダラはその力を使いあらゆる忍一族を次々と束ねていった　そして忍最強と謳われていた
"Having those powers, Madara brought all the shinobi clans, one by one, to heel.* And so he was called the strongest of all shinobi."

森の千手一族と手を組み新たな組織を設立したのだ　その組織こそが後の木ノ葉隠れとなる」
"Joining hands with the Mori no Senju clan (or can be read as the "Senju clan of the forest"), a new establishment was founded. It was that establishment that became Konohagakure."

「その後マダラは千手一族のリーダーであった後の初代火影と里の方針を巡って対立　その主導権 争いに
"Afterwards, Madara met with the leader of the Senju clan who would later become the Shodai Hokage, and with whom which he had a confrontation over matters of village policy. The conflict over the right of leadership."

敗れはしたが　マダラは今もその瞳力と共に在り続けている」
"Though defeated, Madara continues on even now along with the power that lies in his eyes."

「新たに“暁”を組織し　その影に姿を隠してな」
"The shadow of his newly organized "Akatsuki" does its part to hide his visage."

「十六年前　九尾が木の葉を襲った事件はもちろんマダラが起こしたものだ
それも四代目によって阻止されてしまった」
"It goes without question that the attack by Kyuubi upon Konoha that 16 years ago was caused by none other than Madara. It was prevented regrettably by the Yondaime."

サスケ「！」
Sasuke: !

イタチ「今のマダラは負け犬だ…うちはの高みを手にするのは奴じゃない　…あの男　マダラを超 え本当の高み へと
近づくのはこのオレだ　そして今！ ! オレはマダラを超える力をようやく手に出来る！
Itachi: "Madara as he is right now is a failure. He isn't the one who will attain the heights of the Uchiha. The one who is getting closer of attaining that true height, of surpassing that man, Madara...is me. And it's now! I finally will be able to get the power of surpassing Madara!"

イタチ「サスケェ！！お前はオレにとっての新たな光だ！」
Itachi: "Sasukee! You are my new light!"

サスケ「！」
Sasuke: !

イタチ「お前はオレのスペアだ！！元来うちは一族は万華鏡写輪眼の為に友と殺し合い…
Itachi: "You are my spare! The Uchiha clan originally had friends kill one another for the Mangekyou Sharingan-"

永遠の瞳を得るために親兄弟で殺し合い　そうして力を誇示し続けてきた汚れた一族なのだ！
"To attain the eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, they had brothers kill each other. And by doing so they stained their hands with blood, continuing to display their power."

そしてその一族の中に生れ落ちた時からお前も　この血塗られた運命に巻き込まれている！
"And so, you too are enveloped by this blood-stained destiny, from the very time you were born within the clan!"

さあ来い！弟よ！オレはお前を殺して一族の宿命から開放され本当の変化を手にする！
"Now come, brother! Once I kill you, I will liberate the clan from its destiny and attain true change!"

制約を抜け　己の器から己を解き放つ！」
"I will drop my limits and release myself from my "capacity"*!"

～サスケ回想
~Sasuke flashback

イタチ「お前とオレは唯一無二の兄弟だ　お前の越えるべき壁としてオレはお前と共に在り続ける さ」
Itachi: "We are unique brothers, you and I. I act as the wall you must overcome, so that you and I can continue existing together."

イタチ「お前はこのオレを越える事を望み続けてきた　だから生かしてやる…オレの為に」～
Itachi: "You continued hoping to surpass me. That's why I let you live...for my sake."

イタチ「オレ達は互いのスペアだ！それこそがうちはの兄弟の絆なのだ！」
Itachi: "We are each other's spares! That is what binds us as brothers of the Uchiha!"

イタチ「どうやら心の中のオレがちゃんと見えたようだな」
Itachi: "Seems you were able to see enough of my true self."

サスケ「全てはこの為か…」
Sasuke: "So it was all for this..."

～サスケ回想
~Sasuke flashback

サスケ「名はうちはサスケ　嫌いなものならたくさんあるが好きなものは別にない
Sasuke: "Name: Uchiha Sasuke. Lots of things I don't like, and I don't really like anything."

それから…夢なんて言葉で終わらす気はないが　野望はある　一族の復興と　ある男を必ず」
"And I have no intention leaving the word as "dreams". I have ambitions. The resurrection of my clan, and...-"

「殺すことだ」　～
"...to kill a certain man."

サスケ「やっと…たどり着いた」
Sasuke: "All or nothing...this is it."
　
おわり
End

*Means that it was under Madara's control
**Itachi used the word "onore" 己 which can refer to either Itachi or Sasuke. I believe it's referring to Itachi though

[hulkamania]

people will accept anything at narutofan. some of the theories are treated like fact there

Not at mangahelpers. Himajin's word is truth. Check my previous post. :oldrazz:

[oakzap425]

Uh how many times have you said that?

You're still here.

No, I exiled myself from this thread. I thought discussion in here had gotten a little "bad", so I just stopped posting. Every now and then, I found some that I needed to post about, but that was very rare. Most times, I jsut pm'ed regulars.

Of course the manga had gone a way that I didn't like, but it redeemed itself in the end. But this is seriously taking a turn I don't think can get better, and maybe it's for the best if I stop reading it for a while.

I've never been an huge Uchiha fan, but recently, the Uchiha have been getting a little more screen time than necessary. And with the interview Kishimoto gave at the Jump Festa, seems '08 will be the year of the Uchiha, and I gotta say, I'm not into that.

I'll periodically check to see what's going on, catch up, maybe once a month. That's basically what I've been doing with Bleach since the Orihime Arc started.

Maybe this will be a good time for me to catch up on other titles, and maybe find some new ones to start reading.

[Genesis 1.0]

FULL SCRIPT AND PICTURES

Verification: Confirmed
Source: NF
Credits: Sho (translation)






http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/4863/image04pitastzy8.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1281/image05pitastkl1.jpg


Script Translation
「九尾を手懐ける瞳力…それ以外にも何かあるってのか？」
"There's something else besides having the eyes to tame the Nine-Tails?"

イタチ「そうだ…そのもうひとつの秘密　それが最も重要な秘密だ」
Itachi: "Yes. And that remaining secret is the most important one."

サスケ「重要な秘密…？何だ？」
Sasuke: "Important secret? What is it?"

サスケ「何だ？教えろ…」
Sasuke: "Answer me! What is it?"

イタチ「少し昔話をしてやろう　うちはの歴史にまつわる話だ」
Itachi: "I'll tell you a little story. One dealing with the history of the Uchiha."

「かつてマダラにも兄弟がいた…弟だ　幼き頃より二人は互いの力を高め合い競い合った」 競い合った"
"A certain Uchiha Madara once had a brother of his own...a younger brother. When they were young, they competed against each other, both growing in power."

「そして二人は写輪眼に開眼し　兄弟の名は一族の中でも特別なものになっていった
"As a result they awakened to the Sharingan. They became known as special brothers even within the clan."

二人は成長を求め競い合い　兄弟はついに万華鏡写輪眼を開眼したのだ」競い合い
"By seeking growth via competition against one another, the brothers finally attained the Mangekyou Sharingan."

「それはうちは一族始まって以来の事だった　そして兄弟はその瞳力うちはを束ね
"That was from the beginning of the Uchiha clan. So with their powerful eyes, the brothers took control of the clan."

兄のマダラはリーダーになった　しかし順調だったマダラの身にある異変が生じ始める
"The older brother, Madara, became leader. However, strange abnormalities began to grow upon his otherwise healthy normal body."

さっき話したな…この眼は特別だと　使えば使うほど封印され行き着く先は全くの闇
"I said it before...these eyes are special. The more you use them, the closer the complete darkness approaches which seals it away."

これが万華鏡写輪眼の末路だ　大きな瞳力を…力を得る代わりにその力は自ら閉じ　光を失う」
"This is the end of the road for the Mangekyou Sharingan. In exchange for that great power...you will shut your 'eyes'...parting with the light."

「マダラは光を取り戻すためあらゆる手を尽くすが何一つ効果を得られるものはなかった "
"Madara exhausted all means for the sake of returning his light, but nothing was effective."

絶望した　そして万華鏡に取り憑かれたマダラは光を求め…」
"He despaired. And so, possessed by the Mangekyou, Madara sought the light..."

マダラ「許せ…」
Madara: "Forgive me."

弟「ぎゃああああ」
Younger brother: "Gyaaaaa!!"

イタチ「自ら弟の両眼を奪い取ったのだ」
Itachi: "He plucked his brother's eyes."

「マダラは新たな光を手に入れた　そしてもう二度とその眼の光は閉じることがなかった
"Madara gained a new light. And never again was his light ever shut away."

永遠の万華鏡写輪眼！ 弟の眼は新しい宿主を得ることで永遠の光を手に入れたという…」
"The eternal Mangekyou Sharingan! Being the new host for his brother's eyes is what is said to give him a new light."

「そしてそればかりか変化を起こした　特有の新しい瞳術がその眼に生まれたのだ
"And so, whether it was just that or not, it caused a change. A unique doujutsu was born from those eyes."

ただし瞳のやりとりは一族間でしか行えない　それにこの方法で誰もが新しい力を手に入れるわけ ではない」
"This is all provided that the exchange of eyes would not be done outside the clan. And by this method, no one would know how to acquire this new power."

「これはその後の多くの犠牲者の歴史の上に築かれた事実…それがこの眼のもう一つの秘密だ」
"After that, a reality of countless victims piled up over the course of this history... That is the remaining secret of these eyes."

「マダラはその力を使いあらゆる忍一族を次々と束ねていった　そして忍最強と謳われていた
"Having those powers, Madara brought all the shinobi clans, one by one, to heel.* And so he was called the strongest of all shinobi."

森の千手一族と手を組み新たな組織を設立したのだ　その組織こそが後の木ノ葉隠れとなる」
"Joining hands with the Mori no Senju clan (or can be read as the "Senju clan of the forest"), a new establishment was founded. It was that establishment that became Konohagakure."

「その後マダラは千手一族のリーダーであった後の初代火影と里の方針を巡って対立　その主導権 争いに
"Afterwards, Madara met with the leader of the Senju clan who would later become the Shodai Hokage, and with whom which he had a confrontation over matters of village policy. The conflict over the right of leadership."

敗れはしたが　マダラは今もその瞳力と共に在り続けている」
"Though defeated, Madara continues on even now along with the power that lies in his eyes."

「新たに“暁”を組織し　その影に姿を隠してな」
"The shadow of his newly organized "Akatsuki" does its part to hide his visage."

「十六年前　九尾が木の葉を襲った事件はもちろんマダラが起こしたものだ
それも四代目によって阻止されてしまった」
"It goes without question that the attack by Kyuubi upon Konoha that 16 years ago was caused by none other than Madara. It was prevented regrettably by the Yondaime."

サスケ「！」
Sasuke: !

イタチ「今のマダラは負け犬だ…うちはの高みを手にするのは奴じゃない　…あの男　マダラを超 え本当の高み へと
近づくのはこのオレだ　そして今！ ! オレはマダラを超える力をようやく手に出来る！
Itachi: "Madara as he is right now is a failure. He isn't the one who will attain the heights of the Uchiha. The one who is getting closer of attaining that true height, of surpassing that man, Madara...is me. And it's now! I finally will be able to get the power of surpassing Madara!"

イタチ「サスケェ！！お前はオレにとっての新たな光だ！」
Itachi: "Sasukee! You are my new light!"

サスケ「！」
Sasuke: !

イタチ「お前はオレのスペアだ！！元来うちは一族は万華鏡写輪眼の為に友と殺し合い…
Itachi: "You are my spare! The Uchiha clan originally had friends kill one another for the Mangekyou Sharingan-"

永遠の瞳を得るために親兄弟で殺し合い　そうして力を誇示し続けてきた汚れた一族なのだ！
"To attain the eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, they had brothers kill each other. And by doing so they stained their hands with blood, continuing to display their power."

そしてその一族の中に生れ落ちた時からお前も　この血塗られた運命に巻き込まれている！
"And so, you too are enveloped by this blood-stained destiny, from the very time you were born within the clan!"

さあ来い！弟よ！オレはお前を殺して一族の宿命から開放され本当の変化を手にする！
"Now come, brother! Once I kill you, I will liberate the clan from its destiny and attain true change!"

制約を抜け　己の器から己を解き放つ！」
"I will drop my limits and release myself from my "capacity"*!"

～サスケ回想
~Sasuke flashback

イタチ「お前とオレは唯一無二の兄弟だ　お前の越えるべき壁としてオレはお前と共に在り続ける さ」
Itachi: "We are unique brothers, you and I. I act as the wall you must overcome, so that you and I can continue existing together."

イタチ「お前はこのオレを越える事を望み続けてきた　だから生かしてやる…オレの為に」～
Itachi: "You continued hoping to surpass me. That's why I let you live...for my sake."

イタチ「オレ達は互いのスペアだ！それこそがうちはの兄弟の絆なのだ！」
Itachi: "We are each other's spares! That is what binds us as brothers of the Uchiha!"

イタチ「どうやら心の中のオレがちゃんと見えたようだな」
Itachi: "Seems you were able to see enough of my true self."

サスケ「全てはこの為か…」
Sasuke: "So it was all for this..."

～サスケ回想
~Sasuke flashback

サスケ「名はうちはサスケ　嫌いなものならたくさんあるが好きなものは別にない
Sasuke: "Name: Uchiha Sasuke. Lots of things I don't like, and I don't really like anything."

それから…夢なんて言葉で終わらす気はないが　野望はある　一族の復興と　ある男を必ず」
"And I have no intention leaving the word as "dreams". I have ambitions. The resurrection of my clan, and...-"

「殺すことだ」　～
"...to kill a certain man."

サスケ「やっと…たどり着いた」
Sasuke: "All or nothing...this is it."
　
おわり
End

*Means that it was under Madara's control
**Itachi used the word "onore" 己 which can refer to either Itachi or Sasuke. I believe it's referring to Itachi though

I already know they won't let Itachi succeed in this but I for one, find this to be very cool for two reasons. It makes Itachi far more calculating and the Uchiha's more base than they were esteemed to be. And one way or another, we'll be one less Uchiha in the story.

Good deal all around.

[The observer]

but think how much it would change him if he succeeds.
naruto will kill itachi. more on this later.

[The observer]

ok, here goes.
itachi is standing over a beaten sasuske, and says something like.
"even after all theese years, you dont have enough hate. you are pathetic."
sasuske-urrrhhh
Itachi -prepare to die, little brother. (pulls out kunai)
naruto jumpsin, rasengan ready.-yaaaaaaaah! (stabs itachi through back with rasengan.)
itachi-urk!
sasuske-(gasps)...........Naaaaaaaaruuuuuuuuuutooooooooooo oo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Colossal Spoons]

Real spoilers inside
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:-qCaTsW7GF-8CM:http://img.networkanime.com/fanarts/autres/fanarts-38.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.networkanime.com/fanarts/autres/fanarts-38.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fr.networkanime.com/index-cat-fanarts-id-38.html&h=960&w=1280&sz=310&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=-qCaTsW7GF-8CM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmangekyou%2Bsharingan%2Bsmiley%26svnu m%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:L1qUigzH2u9s-M:http://images.minitokyo.net:8001/view/180284.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.minitokyo.net:8001/view/180284.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stage6.com/ANIME-LAB/blog/&h=240&w=320&sz=11&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=L1qUigzH2u9s-M:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmangekyou%2Bsharingan%26svnum%3D10%26 um%3D1%26hl%3Den) :woot:
Source: 2ch----> I got it from Mangahelpers
Verification: Confirmed
Credits: Himajin

イタチが昔話をする
「うちはマダラにも兄弟がいた。・・・弟だ。幼き頃より2人は互いを高めあった
そして2人は車輪眼を開眼し2人はいつしか一族の中でも特別になっていった
2人は更なる成長を求め競い合い兄弟は・・・ついにマン毛狂車輪眼を体得したのだ」

更に続く
「しかし、順調だったマダラの身にある異変が生じる
　大きな瞳力を・・・その力を得る代わりにその力は自ら閉じ光を失う
　絶望したマダラは」

マダラ「許せ・・・」
弟「ぎゃー」

イタチ
「自ら弟の両眼を奪い取ったのだ
　マダラは新たな光を手に入れた。そして・・・もう二度とその眼に光が閉じる事はなかった。永遠のマン毛狂 車輪眼！」

まあ、こんな感じでつらつらと。そしてイタチ

イタチ「サ　ス　ケ　ェ！！
　　　　　俺はお前にとっての新たな光だ！お前はおれのスペアだ！！さあ来い！弟よ！！

↑
サスケがイタチの心の中を見た内容です
サスケェ「全てはこの為か・・・やっと・・・辿り着いた」

（かなり省略してますｗ）

TRANSLATED BELOW

Verification: Confirmed
Source: NF----> I got this from Mangahelpers tooCredits: Himajin (script) - Yasha (translation)


I translated it from the Chinese trans. Please don't kill me if there are any mistakes.

Itachi talks about the past.

Madara also had a brother...a younger brother. The two always competed with each other when they were small. They both activated the Sharingan, which made them special in their clan. They grew up together competing with each other...eventually they obtained the Mangekyo Sharingan through their own understanding.

But some strange changes started to appear in Madara's body. Having gained the tremendous eye power...the price is to lose the eyesight. Madara felt desperate.

Madara: Forgive me...
Younger Brother: Kyaaa

Itachi: He took his younger brother's eyes and with them he could see new light again. The eyes had not lost sight ever since. They became eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

Itachi: SASUKE!! You're my new light! You're my spare!! Come to me, my little brother!!

Sasuke saw all these in Itachi's mind.
Sasuke: So you did everything for this...finally...I understand.


I like that!

[mfbtl]

ok, here goes.
itachi is standing over a beaten sasuske, and says something like.
"even after all theese years, you dont have enough hate. you are pathetic."
sasuske-urrrhhh
Itachi -prepare to die, little brother. (pulls out kunai)
naruto jumpsin, rasengan ready.-yaaaaaaaah! (stabs itachi through back with rasengan.)
itachi-urk!
sasuske-(gasps)...........Naaaaaaaaruuuuuuuuuutooooooooooo oo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be cool, but the big flaw in that would be that Naruto would have to get by Tobi, quite possibly Kisame (pending his battle), and we still don't know what Zetsu is capable of doing.

[najnaimik23]

this might be a stupid question but ill ask anyway.

Whos MS is stronger kakashi or itachi??? and does kakashi's MS will also make him loose his eye sight???

[Colossal Spoons]

Itachi's by far

[Lucy in the sky]

Itachi's by far
not to mention he has two!

[Colossal Spoons]

Seriously

[FadingCB]

... and does kakashi's MS will also make him loose his eye sight???

That confuses me, I've wanted to avoid spoilers, but someone quoted a question about the anime by acciden and put in spoilers a manga spoiler in tags which spoiled the fate of a certain main char a bit back for me so decided to read this one and that popped to mind.

If the Mangeyo can make it's users go blind unless they pluck the eyes from another, then why would Kakashi go blind (since he noticed it to mention it to Itachi he must be feeling the effects) since it's not his eye but from another. Which means it must be inbetween brothers...why would the Sharingan eyes be picky whether the new eyes came from a brother, sister, or another from the clan since they share the same blood line limits?

Also with the first brothers to do it, it seems both reached the Mangeyo stage, wouldn't the other brothers eyes have been going bad as well?

[skaar23]

If the Mangeyo can make it's users go blind unless they pluck the eyes from another, then why would Kakashi go blind (since he noticed it to mention it to Itachi he must be feeling the effects) since it's not his eye but from another. Which means it must be inbetween brothers...why would the Sharingan eyes be picky whether the new eyes came from a brother, sister, or another from the clan since they share the same blood line limits?

Also with the first brothers to do it, it seems both reached the Mangeyo stage, wouldn't the other brothers eyes have been going bad as well?

dude i totally agree with you.

[YoungE808]

Here's my theory: Kakashi has the second form of Mangekyou Sharingan already which is why it looks different from Mangekyou Sharingan. This is because he took the eye of Obito who was like a brother to him.

[skaar23]

Here's my theory: Kakashi has the second form of Mangekyou Sharingan already which is why it looks different from Mangekyou Sharingan. This is because he took the eye of Obito who was like a brother to him.

if he has the second that means he should be stronger than everyone else.

[Colossal Spoons]

He lacks stamina, remember?

[skaar23]

but still if you possesed power that strong you should beat your enemy in no time.

[Colossal Spoons]

If his enemy just avoided looking him in the eye long enough, he'd eventually run out of chakra

[KalKai]

observer don't mix your fan-fics with the real thing, lol.

[mfbtl]

Here's my theory: Kakashi has the second form of Mangekyou Sharingan already which is why it looks different from Mangekyou Sharingan. This is because he took the eye of Obito who was like a brother to him.

I'm thinking every character who has the MS will have a different form. (i.e. Madara's will look different and if in fact Sasuke indeed has achieved MS then his will also look different.

[najnaimik23]

when is the next manga coming out???

[KalKai]

http://i29.tinypic.com/vxyjjp.gif

Goodbye, Itachi.

[uchiha_itachi]

i dont really understand what happened in tht lol

[Colossal Spoons]

when is the next manga coming out???

Idk but it's gettin ridiculous

[hulkamania]

It would appear that... (INSANELY SPOILERY SPOILERS AHEAD)


Everyone's mangekyou looks different, (check out Madara's and his Brother's on the link below) but the eternal mangekyou looks like a combination of the stolen mangekyou and the theif's mangekyou.
http://manga.narutohl.com/naruto/naruto-manga-chapter-386-raw.html

[Colossal Spoons]

This getting out of control lol. The sharingan I mean

[uchiha_itachi]

its strange seeing itachi like that.. lol

[mfbtl]

I know you aren't used to seeing him showing emotions.

[Genesis 1.0]

As i said before, it leaves some gaping holes still that I'm looking forward to seeing filled.

[mfbtl]

They will. This conversation should last at least two more weeks. lol

[najnaimik23]

They will. This conversation should last at least two more weeks. lol

lol. ur probably right.

[Genesis 1.0]

Heh, they're going to have to in order for this to make complete sense.

[skaar23]

I'm thinking every character who has the MS will have a different form. (i.e. Madara's will look different and if in fact Sasuke indeed has achieved MS then his will also look different.

can u show me a picture of madara's MS and his brother's MS

[mfbtl]

Yes, go to hulkamania's post.

[najnaimik23]

damn. that was crazy. so itachi and surpass madara if he gets sasuke's eye.

[skaar23]

wow. this is starting to confuse me. fisrt of all:

when itachi said that if him and jiraiya fight they will both die.

Then when pein and jiraiya fought pein killed jiraiya so that means that pein can kill itachi too.

But pein takes order from madara who is the leader of the akatsuki and stronger than pein.

then itachi said in the last manga that if he obtain sasuke's eye he will surpass madara.

So how strong is madara compare to itachi right now? they should be pretty close. cuz itachi said that if he has sasuke's eye he will surpass madara. right?

[The observer]

our problem is, we're assuming that if a commands b, a is stronger than b. Madara might not be stronger than pein, but pein might need him for something. and yes, the sharingans gone crazy. KILL IT NOW!

[skaar23]

what do you guys mean by the sharingans are gone crazy and stuff. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?? And what so crazy about it???

[The observer]

3 words. So..........many.............powers..............
on the upside, it will soon be the only known cure for cancer, along with many other uncurable diseases. (its a bad thing)

[Sloth7d]

Here's my theory: Kakashi has the second form of Mangekyou Sharingan already which is why it looks different from Mangekyou Sharingan. This is because he took the eye of Obito who was like a brother to him.

Kakashi doesn't have it. He mentioned to Itachi about the deteriorating eye sight. Thus, he experienced that side effect first hand.

[Sloth7d]

wow. this is starting to confuse me. fisrt of all:

when itachi said that if him and jiraiya fight they will both die.

Then when pein and jiraiya fought pein killed jiraiya so that means that pein can kill itachi too.

But pein takes order from madara who is the leader of the akatsuki and stronger than pein.

then itachi said in the last manga that if he obtain sasuke's eye he will surpass madara.

So how strong is madara compare to itachi right now? they should be pretty close. cuz itachi said that if he has sasuke's eye he will surpass madara. right?


The only reason Itachi said that is because he over used magenkyo that day and his chakra was low. Kisame said Itachi probably would have won if he stayed, though he admitted he himself would most likely have lost.

Though, if you're talking about the scene before Itachi goes to fight Jiraiya or the anime, that was a dub error. No internet scanslation has Itachi translated as saying that, only the US Manga and anime. Not to mention it wouldn't make sense, since in that translation Itachi said "having more back up probably wouldn't change things." Now I'm not saying Jiraiya isn't strong, but back up from Sasori, Kakuzu, and Deidara not being helpful? I ain't buying that.

[FadingCB]

wow. this is starting to confuse me. fisrt of all:

when itachi said that if him and jiraiya fight they will both die.

Then when pein and jiraiya fought pein killed jiraiya so that means that pein can kill itachi too.

But pein takes order from madara who is the leader of the akatsuki and stronger than pein.

then itachi said in the last manga that if he obtain sasuke's eye he will surpass madara.

So how strong is madara compare to itachi right now? they should be pretty close. cuz itachi said that if he has sasuke's eye he will surpass madara. right?

Ugh...it's stuff like this that makes me actively avoid this thread. It was already spoiled to me in this thread about Jiraiya even tho I didn't want to hear it. Now all these eye burning spoilers are out in the open with no spoiler tags. I honestly come in here cause this is a joint anime/manga thread, and the manga spoilers keep getting left without tags and sometimes bolded and in capitals to where it's hard to miss them.

[Colossal Spoons]

Wouldn't Itachi have ot take Sasuke's MS in order to get the ultimate. As of now, Sasuke just has a regular sharingan so it should be useless to Itachi :huh:

[najnaimik23]

Wouldn't Itachi have ot take Sasuke's MS in order to get the ultimate. As of now, Sasuke just has a regular sharingan so it should be useless to Itachi :huh:

lol. yeah ur right.

[skaar23]

Ugh...it's stuff like this that makes me actively avoid this thread. It was already spoiled to me in this thread about Jiraiya even tho I didn't want to hear it. Now all these eye burning spoilers are out in the open with no spoiler tags. I honestly come in here cause this is a joint anime/manga thread, and the manga spoilers keep getting left without tags and sometimes bolded and in capitals to where it's hard to miss them.

hey man dont be mad be glad.....atleast now your caught up. lol

[skaar23]

Ugh...it's stuff like this that makes me actively avoid this thread. It was already spoiled to me in this thread about Jiraiya even tho I didn't want to hear it. Now all these eye burning spoilers are out in the open with no spoiler tags. I honestly come in here cause this is a joint anime/manga thread, and the manga spoilers keep getting left without tags and sometimes bolded and in capitals to where it's hard to miss them.

hey man dont be mad be glad.....atleast now your caught up you dont have to try to avoid spoilers. lol

[The observer]

this is ridiculous....just make an anime only thread if you dont want spoilers

[Genesis 1.0]

Ach! Well Hulk was obviously correct with his source.

All this does is open a whole new can of worms. What the hell? True form? And this completely answers my speculation about the 1st Hokage, he defeated Madara at his BEST and with the Ultimate Sharingan, which puts him easily past the 3rd and probably the 4th as well seeing as he died sealing Madara's summon.

In any case, aside from that answered speculation, this Uchiha crap is getting really out of hand. Seeing Madara's Sharingan was cool and all, but it's just getting crazy now.

Oh yeah, nice to see Itachi show some real emotion for once.

[uchiha_itachi]

that dont mean he;s more powerful, the 3rd only died doing that because of the sealing technique. not because he was defeated by anohter ninja

[Genesis 1.0]

that dont mean he;s more powerful, the 3rd only died doing that because of the sealing technique. not because he was defeated by anohter ninja

Firstly, you mean the 4th, not the 3rd.

Second, he wouldn't have used such a dangerous technique if he wasn't at his limit. No matter how much this excuse is used, it's not any more relevant.

Lastly, we have no other compass to guide these decisions aside from their battles. For example, the 3rd died facing Orochimaru who wasn't even on Itachi's level so it's simple to rank that in comparison with the rest.

[Sloth7d]

This chapter has me wondering something. If the magenkyo slowly pulls you into an ever rapid darkness, does that mean Kakashi, too, will become evil one day due to the side effects of the magenkyo?

[Marvin]

judging whose stronger by who can beat who and them translating that to another character is so stupid

especially in the narutoverse where circumstance is such a huge factor


beyond that..you all do realize that your talking about the 3rd when he was admittedly old and past his prime..versus re-incarnations of the first and second and a sanin right...

with characters like Shikamaru circumstance is the ultimate factor...

plus this is a pokemon like situation where certain things trump other things
ie
Guy sensai has a techinque that probubly lets him undress an ulchiha(sp) but that doesn't mean he himself can beat everyone that very ulchiha character could beat

That's the thing i hated most about the Chunin Exams
poor poor Rock Lee
I swear if suske went up again anyone else he would have been undressed

and for the record
if Jiriaya knew anything about Pein before hand(apart from what he already knew ofcourse) that fight would have went diff
(Jiriaya is the most powerful working nin today)


hey guess what
Suske couldn't beat gara during their match, but naruto did a few hours later
guess that puts naruto above him forever...

[uchiha_itachi]

This chapter has me wondering something. If the magenkyo slowly pulls you into an ever rapid darkness, does that mean Kakashi, too, will become evil one day due to the side effects of the magenkyo?


pretty sure the darkness, is blindness

[uchiha_itachi]

Firstly, you mean the 4th, not the 3rd.

Second, he wouldn't have used such a dangerous technique if he wasn't at his limit. No matter how much this excuse is used, it's not any more relevant.

Lastly, we have no other compass to guide these decisions aside from their battles. For example, the 3rd died facing Orochimaru who wasn't even on Itachi's level so it's simple to rank that in comparison with the rest.

yeah but look at it this way the 4th didnt have time to defeat the nine tales. so the quickest way was to use the sealing technique. it was attacking the villagem and he knew if he didnt act fast loads of people would die. that why he just sealed it.

[Sloth7d]

pretty sure the darkness, is blindness

I know, but that darkness has driven two people evil so far, it seems. Especially Madara, who seemed to not want to take his brothers eyes but did anyway.

[mfbtl]

pretty sure the darkness, is blindness

I agree with Itachi-kun here.

[Sloth7d]

hey guess what
Suske couldn't beat gara during their match, but naruto did a few hours later
guess that puts naruto above him forever...

Technically, Sasuke did win. However, Temari and Kankuro gave him a chance to heal up and transform.

[Genesis 1.0]

Technically, Sasuke did win. However, Temari and Kankuro gave him a chance to heal up and transform.

You got to it before I did, but yeah.

I won't even delve into that grammatic battlefield with you, Marvin, because by that same flawed sort of logic, you won't believe anyone's stronger than another until it's stated for you in 6 ft. tall lettering at the end of the Manga. Personally, I'd rather draw my own conclusions based on what I see rather than dithering and posturing. To each his own.

Oh yeah, Sloth, I think that's more desperation than anything. Desperation to hold onto that power, to the one thing that makes them true Uchiha. It's more desperation, fear, and a thirst for power, an all consuming need to be the strongest that drives them, not Evil per se.

[Genesis 1.0]

yeah but look at it this way the 4th didnt have time to defeat the nine tales. so the quickest way was to use the sealing technique. it was attacking the villagem and he knew if he didnt act fast loads of people would die. that why he just sealed it.

I'll give you a possible point on that, it's plausible I suppose. Eh, until they reveal more about the 4th, I'll stick to my guns on this one.

[The observer]

the darkness is blindness. the uchihas just have a tendency to be evil.

[YoungE808]

Improved theory on Kakashi's Sharingan. Of course Kakashi's eye wasn't his own but it belonged to someone who was his friend and maybe like a younger brother. Now, to receive Mangekyou Sharingan you have to kill your best friend. To receive the final form of Mangekyou Sharingan you have to kill your brother after getting the first form of Mangekyou. Kakashi did an odd mix up by taking his friend's eye which gave him a new sharingan that may either be a step before pre-final M. Sharingan or between final and pre-final. Also Kakashi may have felt like it was his fault that Obito died and since he was the closest thing to a brother he had...walah

[Genesis 1.0]

Improved theory on Kakashi's Sharingan. Of course Kakashi's eye wasn't his own but it belonged to someone who was his friend and maybe like a younger brother. Now, to receive Mangekyou Sharingan you have to kill your best friend. To receive the final form of Mangekyou Sharingan you have to kill your brother after getting the first form of Mangekyou. Kakashi did an odd mix up by taking his friend's eye which gave him a new sharingan that may either be a step before pre-final M. Sharingan or between final and pre-final. Also Kakashi may have felt like it was his fault that Obito died and since he was the closest thing to a brother he had...walah

Obito awakened his Sharingan, he didn't even have a chance to get to the MS.

[Sloth7d]

Not to mention Itachi said you can only get the Permanent Magenkyo by taking the sharingan from a fellow clansman. Hence, Uchiha to Uchiha.

[Genesis 1.0]

Not to mention Itachi said you can only get the Permanent Magenkyo by taking the sharingan from a fellow clansman. Hence, Uchiha to Uchiha.

Hell, I wasn't even going to mention that seeing that the entire idea was built around the notion that Obito had the MS which is erroneous.

Although his reasoning that Kakashi saw him as a brother and the same in reverse, was intriguing. You don't just go out handing eyes to just anyone.:o

[Sloth7d]

Hell, I wasn't even going to mention that seeing that the entire idea was built around the notion that Obito had the MS which is erroneous.

Although his reasoning that Kakashi saw him as a brother and the same in reverse, was intriguing. You don't just go out handing eyes to just anyone.:o

Well, yeah, but I was thinking Itachi meant you had to be biological brothers or something.

[Marvin]

You got to it before I did, but yeah.

I won't even delve into that grammatic battlefield with you, Marvin, because by that same flawed sort of logic, you won't believe anyone's stronger than another until it's stated for you in 6 ft. tall lettering at the end of the Manga. Personally, I'd rather draw my own conclusions based on what I see rather than dithering and posturing. To each his own.



I love how you've clearly outlined my modus operandi and intentions so clearly upon reading just one of my dislikes about the way ppl make there decisions around here..
I never once stated how I decide whom is stronger than whom...I just said the way most ppl do it here is apprehensious...

so no
"you won't believe anyone's stronger than another until it's stated for you in 6 ft. tall lettering at the end of the Manga"

that's not how actually...

actually i forget about the intermission...
that being said the second time the fought sasuke was clearly outmatched where as naruto was not.

does that mean that a week later Sasuke wouldn't be able to undress naruto in a fair match
or vice versa?

you say you draw you own conclusion based on what you see(I'm assuming you speak for everyone here)
I say most ppl draw conclusions based only on what they see and any reasoning they claim to add to that is thrown out the window.

do you want to know what i see round these parts?


wow. this is starting to confuse me. fisrt of all:

when itachi said that if him and jiraiya fight they will both die.

Then when pein and jiraiya fought pein killed jiraiya so that means that pein can kill itachi too.

But pein takes order from madara who is the leader of the akatsuki and stronger than pein.

then itachi said in the last manga that if he obtain sasuke's eye he will surpass madara.

So how strong is madara compare to itachi right now? they should be pretty close. cuz itachi said that if he has sasuke's eye he will surpass madara. right?

I don't need anything to be stated at the end of manga in lettering 10feet tall even..
but this is borderline weak reasoning

that's like saying because such and such thug got the jump on batman one night and ko'd him with a board with a nail through it...and batman (issue 612)
took out superman(circumstance not withstanding) and superman took out doomsday, and doomsday took out the whole league than

such and such thug could take out amazo...cause amazo has the leagues combined strength...

I only ask that ppl stop jumping to conclusing and tethering lines where there are none

on a good day
Shikamaru could possibly take out anyone and that's the truth
all due to circumstance

[skaar23]

so ummmmmm.......... what are you trying to say marvin.

[skaar23]

All this does is open a whole new can of worms. What the hell? True form? And this completely answers my speculation about the 1st Hokage, he defeated Madara at his BEST and with the Ultimate Sharingan, which puts him easily past the 3rd and probably the 4th as well seeing as he died sealing Madara's summon.

In any case, aside from that answered speculation, this Uchiha crap is getting really out of hand. Seeing Madara's Sharingan was cool and all, but it's just getting crazy now.

Oh yeah, nice to see Itachi show some real emotion for once.

so can anyone explain this to me im lost right now. So the first hokage beat madara at his best. Making the 4th hokage stronger than madara. But madara summoned the nine tailed fox that even the the 4th have trouble with. So how did madara tamed the demon fox if its stronger than him?

[mfbtl]

I guess that falls under the "any given sunday" theory. Moving right along ...

I have to think that Kakashi awakened his MS through an alternate method than Itachi. He would have to kill Gai or something. I am sure that Kakashi went to the place where the Uchihas keep the scroll on the clans and found a loop hole.

[mfbtl]

so can anyone explain this to me im lost right now. So the first hokage beat madara at his best. Making the 4th hokage stronger than madara. But madara summoned the nine tailed fox that even the the 4th have trouble with. So how did madara tamed the demon fox if its stronger than him?

According to the last couple of issues the sharringan of certain power has the ability to control the Kyubi. Whether it be from genjutsu or something else they have not said. I don't think that Madara even made an apperance in front of the 4th hokage. So assuming that the 4th was stronger is a slight stretch. Although, it could be a correct statement in the future once we get more info on Madara.

[Marvin]

nothing personal by anymeans

but

it's goes beyond symentics

sure if this was some sort of athletic competition like 100m sprint...and circumstance not withstanding

than if A faster than B
and B is faster than C
than A is faster than C as well

but fights in Naruto go so far beyond that

surely you wouldn't be able to apply the same approach to deciding whose better at say Chess

A, B or C
and unless it's a Sanin vs genin like power difference...
so many little things come into play

conversly against both our points in a way

some ppl happen to be weak against things others are stronger against
and i'm not just talking about this new things about elemental based Chakra

it's about a tijutsu user going up against a master summoner and than having that summoner go up against a gen jutsu user and than
when that ti jutsu user goes up against that genjutsu user

he happens to have developed a skill for fighting sharringan..

[Marvin]

all that being said

anyone one we even looks at the 4th the wrong way would get their face smashed.

even Shikamaru Nara

[mfbtl]

Its "semantics", but that is why characters such as Naruto, Lee, and Gai exist. That way people who are at elite levels can be beaten by hard work. On paper it is easy to say that Neji would beat Chouji, but if they would fight Chouji could win because that would keep readers on their toes. Which is why we read this fictional story. We are at the mercy of Kishi, so while our argument on who is stronger is fun; we all need to keep an open mind and vote for our favorite characters. Sasori pwns all!

[Marvin]

more fodder to the fact that it all comes down to circumstance
even the characters heart at the time

lee almost pulled it off
the next time gara saw him getting his ass kicked in a fight, he said u had more heart last time

he had to prove something to neji and everyone that time

just because one dude beat some other dude on a good day means nothing when comparing him to other ppl

the 4th does own everyone tho
followed by Jiriaya

that's my word

[najnaimik23]

wow i just read the last manga that came out. After reading it i dont find madara uchiha that strong anymore. I mean he got beat by the fist hokage man I thought he was suppose to be the strongest naruto character. cuz he summoned the nine tailed fox. And when itachi said "today, madara is pathetic shell of his former self. He is no longer worthy of being considered the greastest uchiha." what does he mean by that???

[Lucy in the sky]

I never saw Itachi as such a dynamic character.

[mfbtl]

more fodder to the fact that it all comes down to circumstance
even the characters heart at the time

lee almost pulled it off
the next time gara saw him getting his ass kicked in a fight, he said u had more heart last time

he had to prove something to neji and everyone that time

just because one dude beat some other dude on a good day means nothing when comparing him to other ppl

the 4th does own everyone tho
followed by Jiriaya

that's my word

P.S. I was trying to help elaborate your point, but one man's elaboration is another man's fodder I guess.

[Marvin]

same diff

[The observer]

wow i just read the last manga that came out. After reading it i dont find madara uchiha that strong anymore. I mean he got beat by the fist hokage man I thought he was suppose to be the strongest naruto character. cuz he summoned the nine tailed fox. And when itachi said "today, madara is pathetic shell of his former self. He is no longer worthy of being considered the greastest uchiha." what does he mean by that???

madaras probably almost dead. hes most likely hanging by a string. literally. i think thats what he means

[The observer]

Hell, I wasn't even going to mention that seeing that the entire idea was built around the notion that Obito had the MS which is erroneous.

Although his reasoning that Kakashi saw him as a brother and the same in reverse, was intriguing. You don't just go out handing eyes to just anyone.:o


kakashi did it in reverse. he took his brothers (or close to it) eye, then "killed" him,, awakening mangekyou. or somethimg like that.

[Sloth7d]

But Kakashi didn't get the magenkyo after Obitos death. Just the two tomoe sharingan. He recieved magenkyo later.

[YoungE808]

Well of course Kakashi really didn't know much about the sharingan back then let alone the Mangekyou Sharingan so the first time he actually discovered the M.Sharingan was when Itachi incapacitated him.

[uchiha_itachi]

kakashi got his MS a different way, as some1 said he probly went into the Uchiha cave place and researched it to find out a way of getting it with out the killing whoever gig.

[Sloth7d]

Pretty much.

[Colossal Spoons]

2 or 3 days after the manga comes out, I think we should be able to post w/o spoiler tags. If you come in here before reading the manga, you know what the F is up. :up:

[uchiha_itachi]

the only thing with that though is it could be a thread for the manga or anime. so people watching the anime will get so much spoiled.


even though i only really watch the anime lol but i dont mind knowing whats going on.

i did read the last 5 chapters tho..

[FadingCB]

Well I didn't mean to be a downer, if there was an anime only thread I'd stick to it. I'm just going to unsuscribe to this thread tho, so you can post without spoilers if it doesn't bother anyone else. I'm just used to pretty much every other part of the hype that uses spoilers for most new items, then come in here and BLAM major plot story that I won't see for months as I only watch the anime is spoiled, therefore spoiling all plot points in turn up to that point. It makes me feel like I'm watching months of the anime knowing whats going to happen and completely takes the oh **** factor out of watching the anime for me.

So unsucribing so I can enjoy the anime again, because right now after the Jiraiya spoiler out in the open I feel like I'm just waiting for the anime to catch up as I alrdy know what happens, and it takes some of the enjoyment out of the series if it makes any sense. Really only came in here anyway to see what ppl thought of the current anime episode, but most in here seem to read the manga.

[skaar23]

spoiler people...big spoiler. its so big it makes big spoilers not big.
Naruo has the nine tailed fox sealed inside him.
sasuke has a sharingan and naruto and sasuke are from a village that called hidden leaf village.lol. I bet you didnt know that huh???lol. just playin. I have nothing else to do so im just messing around here. lol. I do have a question though. Anyone else finds naruto annoying whenever he says "BELIEVE IT !" anyone????

BELIEVE IT !!!!

[mfbtl]

Thanks for spoiling the whole anime for me. Next thing you will tell me that the good guys will win in the end. lol I like when Sasuke made fun of Naruto's "Believe it" speech impediment during a preview.

[MoPlaYa43]

I just got into Naruto a few weeks ago...I bought season 1 uncut last nite..I`m watching it right now

[Genesis 1.0]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 1.0 http://forums.superherohype.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=13915466#post13915466)
You got to it before I did, but yeah.

I won't even delve into that grammatic battlefield with you, Marvin, because by that same flawed sort of logic, you won't believe anyone's stronger than another until it's stated for you in 6 ft. tall lettering at the end of the Manga. Personally, I'd rather draw my own conclusions based on what I see rather than dithering and posturing. To each his own.


I love how you've clearly outlined my modus operandi and intentions so clearly upon reading just one of my dislikes about the way ppl make there decisions around here..
I never once stated how I decide whom is stronger than whom...I just said the way most ppl do it here is apprehensious...

so no
"you won't believe anyone's stronger than another until it's stated for you in 6 ft. tall lettering at the end of the Manga"

that's not how actually...

actually i forget about the intermission...
that being said the second time the fought sasuke was clearly outmatched where as naruto was not.

does that mean that a week later Sasuke wouldn't be able to undress naruto in a fair match
or vice versa?

you say you draw you own conclusion based on what you see(I'm assuming you speak for everyone here)
I say most ppl draw conclusions based only on what they see and any reasoning they claim to add to that is thrown out the window.

do you want to know what i see round these parts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by skaar23 http://forums.superherohype.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=13910122#post13910122)
wow. this is starting to confuse me. fisrt of all:

when itachi said that if him and jiraiya fight they will both die.

Then when pein and jiraiya fought pein killed jiraiya so that means that pein can kill itachi too.

But pein takes order from madara who is the leader of the akatsuki and stronger than pein.

then itachi said in the last manga that if he obtain sasuke's eye he will surpass madara.

So how strong is madara compare to itachi right now? they should be pretty close. cuz itachi said that if he has sasuke's eye he will surpass madara. right?

I don't need anything to be stated at the end of manga in lettering 10feet tall even..
but this is borderline weak reasoning

that's like saying because such and such thug got the jump on batman one night and ko'd him with a board with a nail through it...and batman (issue 612)
took out superman(circumstance not withstanding) and superman took out doomsday, and doomsday took out the whole league than

such and such thug could take out amazo...cause amazo has the leagues combined strength...

I only ask that ppl stop jumping to conclusing and tethering lines where there are none

on a good day
Shikamaru could possibly take out anyone and that's the truth
all due to circumstance

Don't you just love it when someone tries to use larger words to cover spelling and grammar potholes, and then the same individual turns around and makes LESS sense than they did the first time around? Marvin, stick to what you know and you'll be alot happier and more coherent.

I won't even bother debating this with you since all you did was repackage the same flawed ideal, so you can just scroll back and read the same response. It's funny because you then proceed to use some of the most lackluster and fanboyish statements seen in this thread:

"the 4th does own everyone tho, followed by Jiriaya."

I mean, WOW. How could I possibly argue with such a vast wealth of logic and wisdom?:o


so can anyone explain this to me im lost right now. So the first hokage beat madara at his best. Making the 4th hokage stronger than madara. But madara summoned the nine tailed fox that even the the 4th have trouble with. So how did madara tamed the demon fox if its stronger than him?

Errrrrrmmmmmm....huh? Run that by me again.:huh:

[Marvin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 1.0 http://forums.superherohype.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=13915466#post13915466)
You got to it before I did, but yeah.

I won't even delve into that grammatic battlefield with you, Marvin, because by that same flawed sort of logic, you won't believe anyone's stronger than another until it's stated for you in 6 ft. tall lettering at the end of the Manga. Personally, I'd rather draw my own conclusions based on what I see rather than dithering and posturing. To each his own.




Don't you just love it when someone tries to use larger words to cover spelling and grammar potholes, and then the same individual turns around and makes LESS sense than they did the first time around? Marvin, stick to what you know and you'll be alot happier and more coherent.

I won't even bother debating this with you since all you did was repackage the same flawed ideal, so you can just scroll back and read the same response. It's funny because you then proceed to use some of the most lackluster and fanboyish statements seen in this thread:

"the 4th does own everyone tho, followed by Jiriaya."

I mean, WOW. How could I possibly argue with such a vast wealth of logic and wisdom?:o




Errrrrrmmmmmm....huh? Run that by me again.:huh:

your use of ad hominem is a sight to behold
I assume you tend to get your way around these boards by belittling ppl and or their arguments rather than actually engaging in them
(than again, i'm just assuming)

you see a problem with the point being made? define it, retort it..don't just say you won't, point out grammatical errors (on a message board(sorry i really don't care to spell check this stuff, and beyond multi-tasking when i'm on here, i just let it flow...didn't seem to bother anyone before, but if it bothers you, or rather if you can't get past it, i'll double check my essays before submitting them to you.))

my advice to you, stop hiding behind the fact that you'd rather not state your opinion/ or debate, and just do it.
it'll make you more "coherent."

and yes
The fourth and Jiriaya are the two most powerful characters that we know of thus far
if you don't think so, let's hear it?
or would you rather not?:whatever:

[oakzap425]

your use of ad hominem is a sight to behold
I assume you tend to get your way around these boards by belittling ppl and or their arguments rather than actually engaging in them
(than again, i'm just assuming)

you see a problem with the point being made? define it, retort it..don't just say you won't, point out grammatical errors (on a message board(sorry i really don't care to spell check this stuff, and beyond multi-tasking when i'm on here, i just let it flow...didn't seem to bother anyone before, but if it bothers you, or rather if you can't get past it, i'll double check my essays before submitting them to you.))

my advice to you, stop hiding behind the fact that you'd rather not state your opinion/ or debate, and just do it.
it'll make you more "coherent."

and yes
The fourth and Jiriaya are the two most powerful characters that we know of thus far
if you don't think so, let's hear it?
or would you rather not?:whatever:

Really, wtf.

P.S. have you actually been following the series, or are you one of those "licensed anime" jump-on's? Because your knowledge of the series and your opinion on character strength don't really match up.

Yes, Yondaime was strong. But we also haven't really seen him in action, unless you've read the Kakashi Gaiden. You have read that, correct?

Jiraiya, the correct spelling of the name, which I'm sure you knew, is a legendary Sannin, yes, but it's been stated several times with in the manga that he wasn't the strongest Sannin. Personally, I think it can be taken with a grain of salt.


Madara has been hyped all this time, only to be essentially down-graded by Itachi, who, as of recently has been up-graded strength wise, but ran away from Jiraiya, who you stated is one of the Strongest Shinobi in the series, aside from Yondaime.

Kishimoto writes a lot of stuff about his characters, but after 386 chapters, I'm sure he can't keep up with everything. Seriously, a lot of stuff that explained and don in this manga a mostly a contradiction.


Just agree to disagree and stop with the petty arguments. Jeez.

[mfbtl]

And lets not forget that they where dubbed the "Sanin" by Salamander Hanzou. I will never get how that caught on. Now if the 3rd Hokage would have done that then okay, but ...

[najnaimik23]

[/quote]Errrrrrmmmmmm....huh? Run that by me again.:huh:[/quote]


what? i didnt understand that.

[najnaimik23]

Errrrrrmmmmmm....huh? Run that by me again.:huh:


what? i didnt understand that.
what do you mean by that?

[Marvin]

Really, wtf.

P.S. have you actually been following the series, or are you one of those "licensed anime" jump-on's? Because your knowledge of the series and your opinion on character strength don't really match up.

I've read enough to not let someone else whose read enough tell me what i know

Yes, Yondaime was strong. But we also haven't really seen him in action, unless you've read the Kakashi Gaiden. You have read that, correct?

we haven't seen alot of people in "action" (including Pien and Itachi) yet that doesn't stop ppl from making the whatever claims they make.

what do i know of "Yondaime?"
for one that's not his name...but i'll leave the name corrections to you...
it's stated over and over
he's considered on of the truest ninja geniuses, a technique that had entire armies put out a flee on sight order (i don't think many nin have that kinda power for it's not their "unbeat-ability" but rather their efficiency and destructive prowess.
lastly, unlike alot of the powerful nin that seem to all come out of the hidden leaf
he is considered to be the "most powerful to have ever"
that means alot, to me anyways.

Jiraiya, the correct spelling of the name, which I'm sure you knew, is a legendary Sannin, yes, but it's been stated several times with in the manga that he wasn't the strongest Sannin. Personally, I think it can be taken with a grain of salt.

who said he wasn't?

This hermit mode is formidable as hell
that mixed in with his approach to fighting...summons(toad belly and what not)
and his various other abilities make him one of if not the most powerful
plus his ability to develop students

itachi and his lacky ran in fear...and made claims about how he's enough to take them both down...
and god knows if they knew about the hermit mode.



Madara has been hyped all this time, only to be essentially down-graded by Itachi, who, as of recently has been up-graded strength wise, but ran away from Jiraiya, who you stated is one of the Strongest Shinobi in the series, aside from Yondaime.

that's right...so if Jiraiya is enough to induce respect from itachi...i wonder where that put Madara in respect to Minato.

Kishimoto writes a lot of stuff about his characters, but after 386 chapters, I'm sure he can't keep up with everything. Seriously, a lot of stuff that explained and don in this manga a mostly a contradiction.

It's not as simple as dragonball
but i think he does a rather great job

Just agree to disagree and stop with the petty arguments. Jeez.

i'll stop when i see some fair decent arguments

agree to disagree never made sense to me

[uchiha_itachi]

I just got into Naruto a few weeks ago...I bought season 1 uncut last nite..I`m watching it right now

im actually thinking of wathing it all again from the begining cos theres some great moments :D


be carefull about what you read in here though, cos there loads of spoilers flying around lol

[oakzap425]

I've read enough to not let someone else whose read enough tell me what i know



we haven't seen alot of people in "action" (including Pien and Itachi) yet that doesn't stop ppl from making the whatever claims they make.[quote]

Did you miss that whole Jiraiya vs. Pain fight? Or did I imagine that one?

[quote]what do i know of "Yondaime?"
for one that's not his name...but i'll leave the name corrections to you...
it's stated over and over
Okay, fine I'll call him Minato, not the Fourth Hokage. :rolleyes:
he's considered on of the truest ninja geniuses, a technique that had entire armies put out a flee on sight order (i don't think many nin have that kinda power for it's not their "unbeat-ability" but rather their efficiency and destructive prowess.
Go Hiraishin no Jutsu.

lastly, unlike alot of the powerful nin that seem to all come out of the hidden leaf
he is considered to be the "most powerful to have ever"
that means alot, to me anyways.
I'm glad you feel that way.




This hermit mode is formidable as hell
that mixed in with his approach to fighting...summons(toad belly and what not)
and his various other abilities make him one of if not the most powerful
plus his ability to develop students
Funny you should say that, about the students... Pain, Konan, speak for themselves Naruto who's still acting pretty immature. Jiraiya is by no means weak, but don't base his strength on just his students. You're still basing all of that on Minato.

itachi and his lacky ran in fear...and made claims about how he's enough to take them both down...
and god knows if they knew about the hermit mode.
Itachi was protecting him self because he'd just used the Tsukiyomi, and was weak at the time. We don't know what a full powered Itachi, plus God of Chakra, Kisame, could have done against Jiraiya.






that's right...so if Jiraiya is enough to induce respect from itachi...i wonder where that put Madara in respect to Minato.



It's not as simple as dragonball
but i think he does a rather great job



i'll stop when i see some fair decent arguments

agree to disagree never made sense to me

Then, maybe you're better suited at http://forums.narutofan.com/

They are the hard core readers and watchers there. Now take your weak arguments there, because all of this has been debated over and over and over there. We're being nice compared to what some of the people would say to you there.

[oakzap425]

Originally Posted by skaar23
so can anyone explain this to me im lost right now. So the first hokage beat madara at his best. Making the 4th hokage stronger than madara. But madara summoned the nine tailed fox that even the the 4th have trouble with. So how did madara tamed the demon fox if its stronger than him?

Shodai beat Madara yes. How does that make Yondaime stronger than Madara? Because He defeated the Kyuubi (or rather, sealed it into a baby)?
Madara tamed the kyuubi with the Sharigan, which has already been explained, when Naruto and Sasuke met up again.

I'll go find the chapter for you, hold on.

When Sasuke and Kyuubi Talk:
http://img30.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000309/02.jpg
http://img30.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000309/03.jpg

And in the recent chapter it explains more about the Sharingan, Madara, and Kyuubi.

[oakzap425]

edit

[animefan]

I guess that falls under the "any given sunday" theory. Moving right along ...

I have to think that Kakashi awakened his MS through an alternate method than Itachi. He would have to kill Gai or something. I am sure that Kakashi went to the place where the Uchihas keep the scroll on the clans and found a loop hole.


i have always wondered how he got his, i remember some one told me he just copied itachi's but from what i can remember itachi never used MS in front of Kakashi, if i had to guess i would say maybe Obito Uchiha counted as his best friend being killed, i dont know does it say you specifically have to kill your best friend or can he die some way else.

[Sloth7d]

i have always wondered how he got his, i remember some one told me he just copied itachi's but from what i can remember itachi never used MS in front of Kakashi, if i had to guess i would say maybe Obito Uchiha counted as his best friend being killed, i dont know does it say you specifically have to kill your best friend or can he die some way else.

Itachi used MS directly on him, but I doubt you can copy it.

[animefan]

Itachi used MS directly on him, but I doubt you can copy it.



really when? when they first fought i thought cuz i thought i herd someone say that Tsukuyomi was just a reagular genjutsu. anyways yea i dont think he can copy it.

[mfbtl]

really when? when they first fought i thought cuz i thought i herd someone say that Tsukuyomi was just a reagular genjutsu. anyways yea i dont think he can copy it.

It isn't a regular technique. That being said ... is it a MS technique?? It is implied, but the dialogue between him and Kakashi lead you to believe that it isn't. This could have been a simple problem in translation, but later in Shippuden he preforms the same technique against Kakashi's shadow clone. The problem with that scene is that when he had Naruto in the regular genjutsu he straight up tells Naruto that he can't use the MS. We find out later because that it is in fact not Itachi physically attacking them, but some technique Pein has used. I don't think it is a reagular technique or MS tech, but I do think it is a really advanced Sharringan technique.

[Genesis 1.0]

Oakzap, I'm just going to take that cue and just drop it as I said I would the first time. It's increasingly clear that I was wasting my time.

I was always under the impression that the Tsukuyomi was a Sharingan technique and not a MS technique.

[najnaimik23]

Shodai beat Madara yes. How does that make Yondaime stronger than Madara? Because He defeated the Kyuubi (or rather, sealed it into a baby)?
Madara tamed the kyuubi with the Sharigan, which has already been explained, when Naruto and Sasuke met up again..

well i assume that minato is stronger than madara cuz they said that minato is the strongest hokage ever. So that means hes stronger than the first hokage. right?

[uchiha_itachi]

It isn't a regular technique. That being said ... is it a MS technique?? It is implied, but the dialogue between him and Kakashi lead you to believe that it isn't. This could have been a simple problem in translation, but later in Shippuden he preforms the same technique against Kakashi's shadow clone. The problem with that scene is that when he had Naruto in the regular genjutsu he straight up tells Naruto that he can't use the MS. We find out later because that it is in fact not Itachi physically attacking them, but some technique Pein has used. I don't think it is a reagular technique or MS tech, but I do think it is a really advanced Sharringan technique.

also, i seem to remember he didnt activate his MS eyes either, he just had his normal sharingan eyes.

[mfbtl]

I think he did when he used it on Sasuke.

I forgot about that until just now.

[Sloth7d]

really when? when they first fought i thought cuz i thought i herd someone say that Tsukuyomi was just a reagular genjutsu. anyways yea i dont think he can copy it.

Nope. It's a MS technique.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-142/page015.html

[uchiha_itachi]

Stupid question time, can you use the MS technique's without activating the MS?

[Sloth7d]

It isn't a regular technique. That being said ... is it a MS technique?? It is implied, but the dialogue between him and Kakashi lead you to believe that it isn't. This could have been a simple problem in translation, but later in Shippuden he preforms the same technique against Kakashi's shadow clone. The problem with that scene is that when he had Naruto in the regular genjutsu he straight up tells Naruto that he can't use the MS. We find out later because that it is in fact not Itachi physically attacking them, but some technique Pein has used. I don't think it is a reagular technique or MS tech, but I do think it is a really advanced Sharringan technique.

That wasn't the same technique. It was a genjutsu, but not tsukuyomi. Notice that the background and characters aren't in black and white. In Tsukuyomi it is.

[animefan]

Oakzap, I'm just going to take that cue and just drop it as I said I would the first time. It's increasingly clear that I was wasting my time.

I was always under the impression that the Tsukuyomi was a Sharingan technique and not a MS technique.

what i ment to say was that i thought it was a regular sharingan genjutsu not a MS genjutsu

[animefan]

Nope. It's a MS technique.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-142/page015.html




I never read the manga for naruto part1,but i am for part2, anyways from in anime point of view the only time i saw itachi MS ayes is when they wen to a flashback to when suske was a kid, when he did that genjutsu on kikashi he still had his regualar sharingan eyes, I think.

[Sloth7d]

Stupid question time, can you use the MS technique's without activating the MS?

Byakugan users can't see 50 meters without activating byakugan, so I'd have to say,"no."

[uchiha_itachi]

I see what your saying but i think its a different ball park. Just beacause the byakugan ( as we know it ) has one level.

but it would make sense for them not to work. its just i could of sworn they showed Itachi using a MS technique without him having his MS activated.

But yeah your probably right. ( i dont mean that sarcastically btw, just incase it sounds like that lol )

[Sloth7d]

I never read the manga for naruto part1,but i am for part2, anyways from in anime point of view the only time i saw itachi MS ayes is when they wen to a flashback to when suske was a kid, when he did that genjutsu on kikashi he still had his regualar sharingan eyes, I think.


The first time they actually show MS ( in the anime and manga) is in Sasukes flash back, but the first time he uses it is against Kakashi. However, you can't see his eyes, but he clearly states he's using Magenkyo.
EpBG7ptgkV0

[Sloth7d]

I see what your saying but i think its a different ball park. Just beacause the byakugan ( as we know it ) has one level.

but it would make sense for them not to work. its just i could of sworn they showed Itachi using a MS technique without him having his MS activated.

But yeah your probably right. ( i dont mean that sarcastically btw, just incase it sounds like that lol )

You might be confused because (in the anime) they show a bunch of sharingan eyes swirling around when he uses Tsukuyomi, even though Itachi clearly saids he's using Magenkyo at the time. It's an anime error.

But for the most part, what I meant was, I can't imagine the point of calling it a MS technique if the regular sharingan could do it too.

[animefan]

The first time they actually show MS ( in the anime and manga) is in Sasukes flash back, but the first time he uses it is against Kakashi. However, you can't see his eyes, but he clearly states he's using Magenkyo.
EpBG7ptgkV0


thats the part that confused me, you never see his eyes so i didn't know if he use MS or not.

[uchiha_itachi]

ah ok that makes sense, so it shows it differently in the manga then i take it?

Yeah i know what you mean. but i ment like if you Activate your MS and learn that technique you can then use it without activating your MS. but then again it dosent really make sense for it to do that lol

its the anime error thowing me off then lol

[Sloth7d]

thats the part that confused me, you never see his eyes so i didn't know if he use MS or not.

ah ok that makes sense, so it shows it differently in the manga then i take it?

Yeah i know what you mean. but i ment like if you Activate your MS and learn that technique you can then use it without activating your MS. but then again it dosent really make sense for it to do that lol

its the anime error thowing me off then lol

I think it is a little. Just remember during that part, in the manga and anime, he did say he was using Magenkyo despite how it was animated.

[mfbtl]

He did with Sasuke.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/224/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/224/15/

And with the Shippuden part of my statement.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/07/

I know that he implies it in the scene you posted, but I just don't understand the shippuden scene.

[Sloth7d]

He did with Sasuke.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/224/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/224/15/

And with the Shippuden part of my statement.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/07/

I know that he implies it in the scene you posted, but I just don't understand the shippuden scene.

Yeah. That's a different genjutsu he uses in shippuden. Notice the background and Naruto aren't in pitch black and white like when Sasuke and Kakashi were in Tsukuyomi.

[mfbtl]

This may sound like a lame cop out, but are you sure that just wasn't a different way of drawing several issues ago?.

[Sloth7d]

This may sound like a lame cop out, but are you sure that just wasn't a different way of drawing several issues ago?.

I don't think so. The author went clearly out of his way all three times we see someone in tsukuyomi (Chibi-Sasuke, Pre-teen Sasuke, and Kakashi) to show us, that's what it looks like when you're in that technique. Otherwise, it'd be pretty confusing to show a pattern like that, and then randomly change what it looks like.

[Marvin]

edit

[Marvin]

I've read enough to not let someone else whose read enough tell me what i know



we haven't seen alot of people in "action" (including Pien and Itachi) yet that doesn't stop ppl from making the whatever claims they make.


Did you miss that whole Jiraiya vs. Pain fight? Or did I imagine that one?

this is a prime example of what i'm talking about

you say we haven't seen the 4th in action
I say sure we have, just about as much as we've seen alot of the characters you seem to know so much about in action

but i'll start being direct from now on, cause i fear my subtlety is giving you a false sense of superiority

I assume you read the Pein/Jiraiya fight

considering the situation and information flow and home field advantage of both characters
did you or did you happen to notice how much more of a fight Jiraiya had to put up when in comparison to his opponent?

if you didn't I'll tell you, Jiraiya went "all out" (minus Gamabunta)
Pein in fact almost didn't break a sweat.
I don't think anyone here can tell me the full extent of what peins eyes can do or even what he is...

don't tell me about knowing anything more than a few tricks that character can do when he's in a fight where he clearly has the advantage.
an advantage gained by a few things, but in jiraiyas defense not knowing he was attacking avatars.

you don't know enough about Pein to make the claims many here have

you don't know enough about Itachi...when's the last time you've seen him go full tilt in a fight?
when's the last time you saw him fight?
all you've seen is him wipe people out with some powerhouse moves
and of course his rep.
same with Pein, his rep
same with Madara, his rep.

but in actual fact you don't really know what's he's capable off

Well
here I am saying the 4th is a powerhouse bucause of a few powerhouse moves that dare i say are up there on the scale
one against the most powerful demon/beast
the other against any army that looked at him funny
(another being his invention of a powerhouse move)

face it, unless your a hypocrite, you know as little about the characters you say are strong as i know about the character i say is.


Okay, fine I'll call him Minato, not the Fourth Hokage. :rolleyes:

you called him by what you thought was his real name(not his title)
and you would have been right if this was a few months back before his actual name was released..

which I made it a point to point out for two reasons
one, you were curious as to weather i actually follow the series or i just watch casually

and two...not too long ago you were so eager to correct my spelling of characters names.

don't roll your eyes too much...just far enough see how wrong you've been.

Go Hiraishin no Jutsu.

I'm glad you feel that way.

myself and many others

in fact
ask yourself this

why would Kakashi tell Naruto that "he would be the one to (finally) surpass Minato(the 4th)"

is it possibly because the 4th is "the measure?"
the nin that no one has yet to surpass

undefeated and only slain by his own hand..

read any character bio
(wiki for instance)

"he is the most gifted/powerful ninja that the leaf village has produced(yet)"
that includes all the other ninja that have come out of the leaf
including Madara
and itachi
and the first
and Guy

or am i missing something?



Funny you should say that, about the students... Pain, Konan, speak for themselves Naruto who's still acting pretty immature. Jiraiya is by no means weak, but don't base his strength on just his students. You're still basing all of that on Minato.



objectively speaking, they're all his students, take him out of the equation and they'd be nothing

and yes I am basing that on the "most gifted ninja the leaf has ever produced"

Itachi was protecting him self because he'd just used the Tsukiyomi, and was weak at the time. We don't know what a full powered Itachi, plus God of Chakra, Kisame, could have done against Jiraiya.


your intitled to your opinion of what was ment when this dialogue was spoken
(english sub)

Kisame:"Perhaps you can fight him evenly..but i cannot"
Itachi:"He's too strong...Yes, if we both fought him, we would be killed..."
Itachi:"...or in a good case, we MIGHT kill him, but we'd die along with him..even if we had more men, that result would not change,

Kisame:"His caretaker is a legendary Sannin...Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mists Seven Shinobi-Gatana seem petty before his name."

Itachi:"yes but all strong opponents have weaknesses."

but, unless they were talking about naruto, I think you need to work on your comprehension skills.


what's more, that doesn't change the fact that Jiraiya, who knows plenty about what both of those characters are capable of due to his spying(but minus a few secret jutsu's here and there)
was ready willing and able to take them both on at the same time

now he may just be a cocky/arrogant idiot
but at the same it takes a lot to have a character skilled/smart enough to only let himself be severely injured twice in his lifetime and in decidedly overt ways, believe himself capable of defeating both of those two.
take that with as many grains of salt as you want.


Then, maybe you're better suited at http://forums.narutofan.com/

They are the hard core readers and watchers there. Now take your weak arguments there, because all of this has been debated over and over and over there. We're being nice compared to what some of the people would say to you there.

I'm better suited there because there are hardcore fans present?
sure

weak arguments...right.

[Marvin]

Oakzap, I'm just going to take that cue and just drop it as I said I would the first time. It's increasingly clear that I was wasting my time.


considering all you seem to do is chime in here and there with one or two condescending remarks

and then act like you've made some sort of point...

your right
your time could be better spent

please..

[oakzap425]

well i assume that minato is stronger than madara cuz they said that minato is the strongest hokage ever. So that means hes stronger than the first hokage. right?

I've started taking all that crap with a grain of salt. Until I see these people in actual battle, it's all speculation to me.

Supposedly the Rinnegan is stronger than the Sharingan. Where the hell in that fight was that proven. Further more, with more hax powers being shown from the Sharingan, I don't understand how that can be true anymore either.

Either Kishimoto is a fan boy, or he needs to go back and start referencing his manga again.

[oakzap425]

this is a prime example of what i'm talking about

you say we haven't seen the 4th in action
I say sure we have, just about as much as we've seen alot of the characters you seem to know so much about in action

but i'll start being direct from now on, cause i fear my subtlety is giving you a false sense of superiority

I assume you read the Pein/Jiraiya fight

considering the situation and information flow and home field advantage of both characters
did you or did you happen to notice how much more of a fight Jiraiya had to put up when in comparison to his opponent?

if you didn't I'll tell you, Jiraiya went "all out" (minus Gamabunta)
Pein in fact almost didn't break a sweat.
I don't think anyone here can tell me the full extent of what peins eyes can do or even what he is...

don't tell me about knowing anything more than a few tricks that character can do when he's in a fight where he clearly has the advantage.
an advantage gained by a few things, but in jiraiyas defense not knowing he was attacking avatars.

you don't know enough about Pein to make the claims many here have

you don't know enough about Itachi...when's the last time you've seen him go full tilt in a fight?
when's the last time you saw him fight?
all you've seen is him wipe people out with some powerhouse moves
and of course his rep.
same with Pein, his rep
same with Madara, his rep.

but in actual fact you don't really know what's he's capable off

Well
here I am saying the 4th is a powerhouse bucause of a few powerhouse moves that dare i say are up there on the scale
one against the most powerful demon/beast
the other against any army that looked at him funny
(another being his invention of a powerhouse move)

face it, unless your a hypocrite, you know as little about the characters you say are strong as i know about the character i say is.



you called him by what you thought was his real name(not his title)
and you would have been right if this was a few months back before his actual name was released..

which I made it a point to point out for two reasons
one, you were curious as to weather i actually follow the series or i just watch casually

and two...not too long ago you were so eager to correct my spelling of characters names.

don't roll your eyes too much...just far enough see how wrong you've been.



myself and many others

in fact
ask yourself this

why would Kakashi tell Naruto that "he would be the one to (finally) surpass Minato(the 4th)"

is it possibly because the 4th is "the measure?"
the nin that no one has yet to surpass

undefeated and only slain by his own hand..

read any character bio
(wiki for instance)

"he is the most gifted/powerful ninja that the leaf village has produced(yet)"
that includes all the other ninja that have come out of the leaf
including Madara
and itachi
and the first
and Guy

or am i missing something?







objectively speaking, they're all his students, take him out of the equation and they'd be nothing

and yes I am basing that on the "most gifted ninja the leaf has ever produced"




your intitled to your opinion of what was ment when this dialogue was spoken
(english sub)

Kisame:"Perhaps you can fight him evenly..but i cannot"
Itachi:"He's too strong...Yes, if we both fought him, we would be killed..."
Itachi:"...or in a good case, me MIGHT kill him, but we'd die along with him..even if we had more men, that result would not change,

Kisame:"His caretaker is a legendary Sannin...Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mists Seven Shinobi-Gatana seem petty before his name."

Itachi:"yes but all strong opponents have weaknesses."

but, unless they were talking about naruto, I think you need to work on your comprehension skills.


what's more, that doesn't change the fact that Jiraiya, who knows plenty about what both of those characters are capable of due to his spying(but minus a few secret jutsu's here and there)
was ready willing and able to take them both on at the same time

now he may just be a cocky/arrogant idiot
but at the same it takes a lot to have a character skilled/smart enough to only let himself be severely injured twice in his lifetime and in decidedly overt ways, believe himself capable of defeating both of those two.
take that with as many grains of salt as you want.




I'm better suited there because there are hardcore fans present?
sure

weak arguments...right.


:up:

[Iron Fist]

Can anyone help me find a certain pic of Kakashi?

[oakzap425]

Can anyone help me find a certain pic of Kakashi?

I'm bored. and watching anime on line. which one?

[Iron Fist]

It was a super close up, really big shot of Kakashi crying and had his Sharingan showing. It was also in color. You'll know it when you see it.

Thanks for the help. :up:

[Marvin]

:up:

another great retort

we're not worthy

[oakzap425]

It was a super close up, really big shot of Kakashi crying and had his Sharingan showing. It was also in color. You'll know it when you see it.

Thanks for the help. :up:



Gaiden Picture?

[oakzap425]

another great retort

we're not worthy

Wow, you're pushing for a fight aren't you?

[Marvin]

if only because of how aggressive you were to begin with

at this point
you better off
proving a point if you've got one
cause simple brush off

will do little to satiate

[oakzap425]

if only because of how aggressive you were to begin with

at this point
you better off
proving a point if you've got one
cause simple brush off

will do little to satiate

I stated my case. You didn't agree. What more is there to say? It's a messageboard, not a court room. Seriously, get over yourself.

[mfbtl]

I remember when this was a happy board.

[Colossal Spoons]

This place needs more Neji, clearly :o

[mfbtl]

This is from Kakashi Gaiden Iron Fist.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bassgospel/KL/kakashi1nn2.jpg

[oakzap425]

This is from Kakashi Gaiden Iron Fist.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bassgospel/KL/kakashi1nn2.jpg

That's the picture. I've seen that particular version, but I know I've seen a bigger one somewhere. It's the one I'm looking for.

[oakzap425]

This place needs more Neji, clearly :o

This Place needs more Shiranui Genma

[Lucy in the sky]

All this talk about the hierarchy of characters has me thinking how strong was Shishui or Itachi and Sasuke's father?

[Marvin]

I stated my case. You didn't agree. What more is there to say? It's a messageboard, not a court room. Seriously, get over yourself.

get over myself?
I have an opinion that can't co-exist with yours

you're right this isn't a court room, it's a message board, look around the forums here people discuss past, ok, well that's my point I'm going to close my ears to yours

what i presented in my last post(to you) three posts back pretty much one, proves your points wrong
and two
makes you look kind of ill mannered now when looking at what you thought of the opposing opinion when first presented to you

another case of ppl being real quick to chime but when it comes to actual engaging in opinion or rather discussion/argument
"they've said their piece and/but the other party doesn't want to listen"

I read what you said, it's been retorted, i'd love to let you go but it feels unfair if I at least don't give you the opportunity to address or present how your opinion can still survive.

it's not just for your sake, what i quoted from Itachi pertaining to Jiraiya, unless adressed pretty much sets the character hierarchy for itself.

unless ofcourse we use your ultimate verbatem
"Kishimoto has no sense of continuity of hierarchy"
and i'm the one that gets sent to a board where hardcore fans will kill me

or maybe I could be like you and Gen and just send you away knowing i'm right and above bringing myself to giving you the time of day

I don't mean to bring "mean spirits" to this forum, just want to know if i'm right or wrong
truth be told the response to my first posts/initial opinion is the best example of the direction this forum has taken.

[Genesis 1.0]

or maybe I could be like you and Gen and just send you away knowing i'm right and above bringing myself to giving you the time of day



I'm all for this suggestion.

Seriously, in case you still don't get it, everyone's avoiding wasting the 'time of day' on you because it's clear you're trolling for a fight, as it's been stated in several posts.

It's mind boggling that you are completely incapable of grasping the fact that your point of view, however sprinkled with choice bits of canon, is just that; an opinion. Instead you seem to think that you and you alone hold the Truth and everyone else is simply slighting you out of fear. No my ill advised friend, you're being avoided because it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to admit that they too are capable of being wrong.

So personally, I don't have the time to dredge up quotes and sequences that support my view when all you're going to do is dredge up equally futile quotes and sequences. An excercise in futility. For someone who preaches on things in the manga depending on circumstance, you really seem beyond understanding exactly what that means.

So good luck debating yourself, we aren't worthy.:up:

[mfbtl]

Yeah you need to relax Marv. People will never quite agree with each other on a high percentage. I remember trying to help explain your point to others and you assumed I was trying to attack your point. Just remember to breathe buddy.

[Marvin]

I'm all for this suggestion.

Seriously, in case you still don't get it, everyone's avoiding wasting the 'time of day' on you because it's clear you're trolling for a fight, as it's been stated in several posts.

everyone?
I've only asked the two of you

unless you think(and i'm not surprised) that everyone shares your view of things, but perhaps "everyone" as you put it, rather than sees a point in debating
actually agree(or has been made to)

what interests me so much about you is how sure you are of yourself
so sure "theres no point"

It's mind boggling that you are completely incapable of grasping the fact that your point of view, however sprinkled with choice bits of canon, is just that; an opinion. Instead you seem to think that you and you alone hold the Truth and everyone else is simply slighting you out of fear. No my ill advised friend, you're being avoided because it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to admit that they too are capable of being wrong.

when did i say it was anything but an opinion?
what's mind boggling is that you've got me so pegged, you even know what i think of my thoughts:o

stop saying what you think i think
that's about as fallace as it comes

the fact of the matter is that if you're right, you points will speak for themselves, instead..I'm just wrong and your points need not be heard
(ok i'll go and take a nap now)
imagine the world worked that way?
Obama would be president already.

and what makes it ok for you to operate that way?...well it's simple
after reading one of my posts with a view point on something you took it upon yourself with your extreme insight to deduce that I would refuse your "opinion"

that doesn't sound right
for someone so sure that they are infact right(and i'm wrong)
it just seems odd that you go about it that way
let your views speak for themselves.



So personally, I don't have the time to dredge up quotes and sequences that support my view when all you're going to do is dredge up equally futile quotes and sequences. An excercise in futility. For someone who preaches on things in the manga depending on circumstance, you really seem beyond understanding exactly what that means.

I personally think(but u already know this)
that it's much more than lack of time that's stopping you
the truth is, if you had real proof positive that would shut me up, like a great point for example
you wouldn't hesitate, but you don't
you just have like you said "..equally futile quotes and sequences"

if that's the case i understand
the ad hominem is just a bonus i suppose.

And yes I preach plenty about circumstance...
for example
the sannin fight ended the way it did due to circumstance
Sakura(sp) "beat" Sasori(sp) due to circumstance
Kakashi vs Zabuza(sp) part one went down the way it did due to circumstance

any conclusions drawn from those fights are weak unless the circumstance of the situation is acknowledged...(my main problem with some views that have been presented)

someone like Itachi telling me(the audience) that Jiraiya would kill him and all his friends and the best he could ever hope to do is draw
has weight

So good luck debating yourself, we aren't worthy.:up:

wow, humility?
i would have never figured.

and good luck avoiding the debate...whatever your reasons

don't think you'll have much luck tho
you'll be back to chime

[Marvin]

Yeah you need to relax Marv. People will never quite agree with each other on a high percentage. I remember trying to help explain your point to others and you assumed I was trying to attack your point. Just remember to breathe buddy.

if your going to assume my state of mind...

just know it's not because of ppl disagree with me, that's nothing, in fact it's great

what i'm "upset" about is a tired passively offensive "holier than tho" personality type that seems to be spreading on these message boards

and yes, i did mis-understand you, personally i think my point was clear enough the first time around

this talk about breathing?
please don't assume.
I'm typing, that's all.

[Sloth7d]

Can we talk about something else?

[Genesis 1.0]

Can we talk about something else?

Any guesses as to just how long this fight with Sasuke/Itachi is going to go on? They're just getting started afterall.:o

[Sloth7d]

Any guesses as to just how long this fight with Sasuke/Itachi is going to go on? They're just getting started afterall.:o

I don't mind how long it takes as long as we don't have it interrupted by other fights when it gets good. I mean that worked for other fights, but I've been waiting for this one.

[Marvin]

any guesses as to whose going to win?

[oakzap425]

get over myself?
I have an opinion that can't co-exist with yours

you're right this isn't a court room, it's a message board, look around the forums here people discuss past, ok, well that's my point I'm going to close my ears to yours

what i presented in my last post(to you) three posts back pretty much one, proves your points wrong
and two
makes you look kind of ill mannered now when looking at what you thought of the opposing opinion when first presented to you

another case of ppl being real quick to chime but when it comes to actual engaging in opinion or rather discussion/argument
"they've said their piece and/but the other party doesn't want to listen"

I read what you said, it's been retorted, i'd love to let you go but it feels unfair if I at least don't give you the opportunity to address or present how your opinion can still survive.

it's not just for your sake, what i quoted from Itachi pertaining to Jiraiya, unless adressed pretty much sets the character hierarchy for itself.

unless ofcourse we use your ultimate verbatem
"Kishimoto has no sense of continuity of hierarchy"
and i'm the one that gets sent to a board where hardcore fans will kill me

or maybe I could be like you and Gen and just send you away knowing i'm right and above bringing myself to giving you the time of day

I don't mean to bring "mean spirits" to this forum, just want to know if i'm right or wrong
truth be told the response to my first posts/initial opinion is the best example of the direction this forum has taken.

Do you copy and paste your posts? :confused:

[Genesis 1.0]

Do you copy and paste your posts? :confused:

*Duct tapes Oakzap*

Marvin: What was that?:o

-------

On subject, it's evident Sasuke will win but I look forward to seeing Itachi in full tilt.

[oakzap425]

Have you seen the recent spoilers, Gen.

[Marvin]

Do you copy and paste your posts? :confused:

do u read them

[Colossal Spoons]

Omg

[oakzap425]

Omg

lol... :o

[oakzap425]

do u read them

...:confused:

[Genesis 1.0]

Have you seen the recent spoilers, Gen.

Hell yeah, why?

[oakzap425]

Just wondering.

[skaar23]

Have you seen the recent spoilers, Gen.

i havent.....can i see it.

[oakzap425]

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=326372

[mfbtl]

The past formula is to randomly interrupt the fights. I doubt Kishi will deviate to far from his norm.

[The observer]

dont blame, him, hes just ADD. And sasuskes got emotion issues, and itachis crazy, and jarias a perv, and tsunades got unrealistically large boobs. DONT MAKE FUN OF THEM!!!!!!!!