Dream Team League (Discussion)

[TheCorpulent1]

The Saint of Killers seems a little unfair. Hourman with the worlogog would still have to work for his wins. The Saint of Killers kills everything he hits and hits everything he wants to kill because God said so. And he wants to kill just about everyone.

[The Leaguer]

Hmm, he's a tricky one.

[X]

The Saint of Killers seems a little unfair. Hourman with the worlogog would still have to work for his wins. The Saint of Killers kills everything he hits and hits everything he wants to kill because God said so. And he wants to kill just about everyone.

Aza Chorn could kill him. :)

Really though, God came acrost as a really big pussy in Preacher, his biggest power feat was what, slowing down time on Earth? Devil's biggest form of punishment is whipping somebody... Fah.

And what's wrong with the normal Hourman? Do you really need more then an hour to do what's got to be done?

[TheCorpulent1]

The kind-of-new Crimson Avenger might be a suitable replacement for the Saint if she's not too uber also. She has guns that can fire magical bullets that pierce anything. She still has to hit her target though, and she's not totally indestructible like the Saint is. She can teleport too. Although I don't know if she can teleport herself or if she's automatically teleported to whichever unclean soul she's meant to vanquish next.

[TheCorpulent1]

And what's wrong with the normal Hourman? Do you really need more then an hour to do what's got to be done?
Well, I'm like Batman. I don't like leaving anything to chance. Plus, I can think of ways to exploit Hourman's hour of power myself if I were going against him, so that sucks.

[AnnoyingSilence]

So how do I get it to be sometime other than now that's a yes? ;)well, shuck'm, i'd say hourman himself is too uber also. if he can use a hour to just change everything in the battle then that would be too uber. basicly what your sayin is, he can take the hour hes already got an use that time to create, recreate, change... w/e he wants... would that be along the lines of proteus, scarletwitch(chaos), and others? i mean if he doesn't do it all the time it'd still be acceptable once a battle... if you been readin the latest superman/batman you'd see how much that one event can change a character(they didn't go to the EXTREMES EITHER)... sorry if i'm too vague, but i dont' wanna ruin a good story for people...

i'd say time travel should be listed(for anyone) off limits... theres too much stuff that can be done to win a battle... i mean come on, you could travel back in time, give someone the fear of water, have a psi fool the person that thier in the water(drowning or not) an give'm a heart attack... an you could do that with every character(save the rare ones, i duuno)

[Roughneck]

There is likely no way to make Namor think he is afraid of water. But I do agree with you AS.

[The Leaguer]

It happened to Aquaman, I don't see why it couldn't happen to Namor.

[Elijya]

cause Namors 10X the character

but more specifically, he was the only person in the MU that it was shown Doom was worried would have the will to resist teh purple man, otehr than himself. that's saying ALOT. If he could do that, he could overcome some artificial fear

[The Leaguer]

Namor is a tenth the character. As for resisting the Purple Man, I was thinking a different route: fear serum. If prep-time Batman can fall before fear toxins, Namor would go crashing down.

[Elijya]

sorry, but namor never required an overblown 90's revamp where he became disfigured and got a new hair style to make him cool.

10x

[AnnoyingSilence]

this is not on topic i'm just pissed... i just spend all night makin this intro on flash(macro media) for my team(pretty funny) and not it won't show for crap when i try to save it to photobucket. i tried to see if it'd be okay an post it here, but as you see... this is the post where i tried...:OO

[AnnoyingSilence]

cause Namors 10X the character

but more specifically, he was the only person in the MU that it was shown Doom was worried would have the will to resist teh purple man, otehr than himself. that's saying ALOT. If he could do that, he could overcome some artificial fearthats the thing tho... its not artificial... those guys can go back in time(change it) to do what they need done... an for these matchs if it would help the team i'm sure an good guy would go back an make someone afraid of something "for the greater good...", kuz thats exactly what it would be... each team is fighting for the own good. when you come down to it, the character might not kill another but, thats not killing(making them afraid). an with these characters, thats gonna be a focal point. and if they are allowed, then they should be uber... sivler surfer, cable, exodus, martain manhunter... all these powerful characters can't bend time... an time is a huge factor. sit an think on it, i'm not gonna right a page about it(what you can do with time travel).

[Harlekin]

sorry, but namor never required an overblown 90's revamp where he became disfigured and got a new hair style to make him cool.

10x
Well, wasn't there that one time he became amnesiac and was pretty much a bum for a while and than started wearing suits and becoming head of Oracle Inc.?

[AnnoyingSilence]

There is likely no way to make Namor think he is afraid of water. But I do agree with you AS.i need someone that'll back me up, that actually matters:D

[TheCorpulent1]

Hourman was taught by Metron and he realizes the significant problems that time travel poses. Changing the past is off-limits to him and he knows it. If anything, I'd be more worried about villainous time-traveling characters, like Extant, who are more than willing to change the past for their own gain. Hourman relegates himself to the present and just manipulates time subtlely for the most part. If a situation calls for more, he gets more creative but sticks to the present or near-present (i.e. teleporting seconds into the future to appear behind the person when they least expect it).

[Tropico]

sorry, but namor never required an overblown 90's revamp where he became disfigured and got a new hair style to make him cool.

10x

Actually, he did. There was a time he was using a weird armor that covered him head to toe. Then there was the time Jae Lee was drawing the comic where they had him sporting beard stubble, long hair and those golden spiked bracelets. Screamed 90's re-make, it did. Let's not talk about his current Invader uniform, I recently had breakfast.

[Tropico]

thats the thing tho... its not artificial... those guys can go back in time(change it) to do what they need done... an for these matchs if it would help the team i'm sure an good guy would go back an make someone afraid of something "for the greater good...", kuz thats exactly what it would be... each team is fighting for the own good. when you come down to it, the character might not kill another but, thats not killing(making them afraid). an with these characters, thats gonna be a focal point. and if they are allowed, then they should be uber... sivler surfer, cable, exodus, martain manhunter... all these powerful characters can't bend time... an time is a huge factor. sit an think on it, i'm not gonna right a page about it(what you can do with time travel).

Your rant is old. I already voiced my concerns with time traveling characters when people were talking about Kang and JB said it was ok to have time traveling characters. I even suggested that the time traveling be limited to the time when the battle starts (after prep-time) to the end of the battle. You've been Annoying enough for now, switch to the Silence for a while.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Kang's a character I might worry about with time traveling. Hourman's never been shown to abuse it by rampantly changing past events or anything. If I had him going back in time and instilling fears in all the opposing team's characters I'd be writing him out of character, which, as far as I know, has not been something I'm known for in the DTL.

[JewishHobbit]

Okay, I have a question while we're talking about uber and too uber. X has Scarlet Witch on his team who in the little that I've read with her durring Disassembled can pretty much do whatever her little mind comes up with. She created armies of Ultons and whole Kree fleets, and such. She can pretty much do anything. She can affect reality.

So my question is that's very similar to what people like Proteus could do and Proteus has been labled too uber. This doesn't make sense to me. So I'm thining that if Scarlet Witch is allowed with that power then shouldn't people like Proteus be allowed as well? Or at least shouldn't Scarlet Witch be an Uber and not a Medium? Now keep in mind I'm basing this off of the most recent stuff with her and I'm not overly familiar with her character, but this just didn't seem right.

And sorry X, nothing personal, just something I realized while looking at the Update thread.

[The Leaguer]

You've been Annoying enough for now, switch to the Silence for a while.

Must... stop... laughing...

[X]

Okay, I have a question while we're talking about uber and too uber. X has Scarlet Witch on his team who in the little that I've read with her durring Disassembled can pretty much do whatever her little mind comes up with. She created armies of Ultons and whole Kree fleets, and such. She can pretty much do anything. She can affect reality.

So my question is that's very similar to what people like Proteus could do and Proteus has been labled too uber. This doesn't make sense to me. So I'm thining that if Scarlet Witch is allowed with that power then shouldn't people like Proteus be allowed as well? Or at least shouldn't Scarlet Witch be an Uber and not a Medium? Now keep in mind I'm basing this off of the most recent stuff with her and I'm not overly familiar with her character, but this just didn't seem right.

And sorry X, nothing personal, just something I realized while looking at the Update thread.

I've never even read Dissasembled. Anyhow, I'm using normal ol' probability affecting Wanda, not Bendis's raped to ****ing hell and then some version. Go and read some Scarlet Witch and The Vision, that's my Wanda. :)

And since when is Proteus too uber? That's crap. :down:

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Disassembled is ass. Bendis totally rewrote the entire Marvel universe's magic aspect and it sucked. Wanda has hex bolts that can subtlely affect probability and she's a mid-level sorceress. Not bad, but not on the level of Dr. Strange. Das eet!

How badass is Proteus with his reality-warping powers? I'm pretty sure other reality warpers like Mad Jim Jaspers and Franklin Richards at full power are too uber...

[X]

Proteus has nothing on either of them.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/p/proteus.htm

He's a good uber, and if he's ruled too uber, well, I'm going to be a wee bit pissed.

Jasper's is kind of iffy. Fury killed him, a numer of other people in this thing could as well. Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, Composite Man I'd imagine, Mordu, and so on. Jasper's would kind of be like The Earth X Absorbing Man. You do not confront him head on, he will thrash you. Use your head though, and a lot, and I mean a lot of people could take him down.

[JewishHobbit]

It's been a long while since I read either of Proteus's appearances but I would have to say with Odin and people of his calibre being allowed that Proteus would then maybe be allowed. And I don't know if it was stated on here or now but I had asked JB if I could have him back before season 1 started and he was dubbed too uber.

[X]

Well, he isn't now, Blaze just told me so.

[JewishHobbit]

Well, wish I had known that before I got my team all set. But then Proteus is in Cerebro's files so I guess I'm good. (Man I love Cerebro)

[XFanTim]

Can Prometheus use his helmet to put knowledge into other people's minds, or only into his own mind? I mean if he could convince someone else to put the helmet on.

Also, are the knowledge, skills, etc. that he programs in permanent, or do they go away after a while? If they go away, how long do they last? Also, assuming he can use his helmet to train someone else's mind, do they retain this knowledge even after the helmet is removed?

[The Leaguer]

The knowledge and stuff is permanent as long as he wears the helmet. As for using it on other people, I'm not sure. He's never done it, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Personally, I wouldn't use it on anyone else. The helmet is Prometheus's major advantage, and taking it away seems kind of unwise. Sure he's got a bunch of other stuff built into his armor and stuff, but the helmet is his most important aspect.

[XFanTim]

OK, see I was thinking he could take the helmet off, download a bunch of extra fighting skills into someone else, and then put it back on himself. But if you're saying that he forgets everything the helmet teaches him once he takes it off, then I guess that wouldn't work.

[The Leaguer]

That's a good idea, but it doesn't work like that.

[XFanTim]

While I'm asking questions about my characters: Can anyone post some good Speedball dialogue? I'm probably going to stick with Gamora as my MR this week, but I'll certainly be using Speedball at some point, and I don't really know how he talks. I gather he's kind of a wiseguy.

[X]

While I'm asking questions about my characters: Can anyone post some good Speedball dialogue? I'm probably going to stick with Gamora as my MR this week, but I'll certainly be using Speedball at some point, and I don't really know how he talks. I gather he's kind of a wiseguy.

Can't really cite anything, just typical teenage stuff. Quips.

[TheCorpulent1]

Speedball's pretty goofy. Kind of like Ultimate Spider-Man.

[X]

You know, I kind of thought on it, and I don't know if Hourman should be too uber, the original, Worlogog. Let's look at it this way, he can be speedblitzed. He can slow down time around people and what not, but that's not going to stop The Flash or Amazo. He have a lot of power copiers in this thing, and Amazo and The Composite Man could definitely get on top of him and start affecting him before he could them, and neither one is going to have too many qualms about using that power in ways Hourman never would.

Also, Hourman is not a... How should I say this, abuser of his power? He's not for one going to deage/age anyone to death or otherwise. Some beings are near immortal anyhow. So yeah, he could deage/age a normal human uber in seconds (Manchester Black or Xavier) but an Elder of The Universe? They'd sit there and laugh in his face. Five and a half billion years is a long, long, long time. Any Asgardian would be difficult, an Olympian would be near impossible, Mordu would be impossible, and so on. Any number of other ubers can maniplate time. Odin, The Surfer, Green Lantern's, Aza Chorn, Takion, Any power copier, Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, yadda yadda, and they can all do tons of other things. Sure, Hourman has a lot or raw potential, but it all revolves around one thing. He can heal himself via jumping around in time, and so on.

More then one regular has given Hourman a lot of trouble. Vandal Savage, Dr. Togg, and so on. The JLAndroids and Epoch have stomped him. An hour of power who an unlimited amount of it, what's it really matter? Any fight involving time maniplation is going to be short and brutal, it coulden't possibly go on for over an hour. I just think it's kind of stifling to limit Hourman, all things considered. My opinion anyhoo.

[JewishHobbit]

So my thinking is this X,.... you don't want anyone to be Too Uber do you :)

[Johnny Blaze]

Proteus is just an Uber.

Hourman with the Worlogog, will be allowed as an Uber.

[JewishHobbit]

JB doesn't want any Too Uber's either :)

But I don't mind, now I can use Proteus through Cerebro.

[Johnny Blaze]

I don't want any too Ubers? :confused:

Huh...well...in that case...

Drop: Thanos
Add: Galactus

Drop: Amazo
Add: The Spectre

Drop: Mordru
Add: Superman Prime

Drop: Cyborg
Add: Living Tribunal


:o

[JewishHobbit]

Drop: Cable
Add: Death

and now you're all dead :)

[Johnny Blaze]

Heh, dream on; LT would own Death. :p

[TheCorpulent1]

You know, I kind of thought on it, and I don't know if Hourman should be too uber, the original, Worlogog. Let's look at it this way, he can be speedblitzed. He can slow down time around people and what not, but that's not going to stop The Flash or Amazo. He have a lot of power copiers in this thing, and Amazo and The Composite Man could definitely get on top of him and start affecting him before he could them, and neither one is going to have too many qualms about using that power in ways Hourman never would.

Also, Hourman is not a... How should I say this, abuser of his power? He's not for one going to deage/age anyone to death or otherwise. Some beings are near immortal anyhow. So yeah, he could deage/age a normal human uber in seconds (Manchester Black or Xavier) but an Elder of The Universe? They'd sit there and laugh in his face. Five and a half billion years is a long, long, long time. Any Asgardian would be difficult, an Olympian would be near impossible, Mordu would be impossible, and so on. Any number of other ubers can maniplate time. Odin, The Surfer, Green Lantern's, Aza Chorn, Takion, Any power copier, Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, yadda yadda, and they can all do tons of other things. Sure, Hourman has a lot or raw potential, but it all revolves around one thing. He can heal himself via jumping around in time, and so on.

More then one regular has given Hourman a lot of trouble. Vandal Savage, Dr. Togg, and so on. The JLAndroids and Epoch have stomped him. An hour of power who an unlimited amount of it, what's it really matter? Any fight involving time maniplation is going to be short and brutal, it coulden't possibly go on for over an hour. I just think it's kind of stifling to limit Hourman, all things considered. My opinion anyhoo.
Yeah, that's basically what I said in my posts before. Two things: Hourman doesn't heal himself by manipulating time, he's a sentient machine colony so he auto-repairs very, very quickly; and he's already beaten Amazo numerous times. But way to represent. :) :up:

[JewishHobbit]

Heh, dream on; LT would own Death. :p

Hmm, yeah. What if I picked up some Celestrials?
Oh, and Dark Phoenix

[Johnny Blaze]

Won't help you none. :D

LT owns ALL! :mad:

[JewishHobbit]

hmm,,.. how about Sammy, that little fish boy from X-Men. Now that's gotta give me something!

[Johnny Blaze]

He could pose a problem. One look at him and the LT could laugh himself to death. :o

[JewishHobbit]

YEAH, LT's goin down!!!!!!!!

[XFanTim]

Pick up: Those stupid Brothers from Marvel Vs. DC
Pick up: Thanos with that stupid Heart of the Universe thing.
Forfeits in disgust because my team is so lame (despite the fact that they would win.)

[Johnny Blaze]

Ah, I said he could laugh himself to death. ;)
The more likely scenario is that LT squishes Sammy, Monty Python's Flying Circus style. :D

[Johnny Blaze]

Pick up: Those stupid Brothers from Marvel Vs. DC
Pick up: Thanos with that stupid Heart of the Universe thing.
Forfeits in disgust because my team is so lame (despite the fact that they would win.)
Heh, touche. :D

[JewishHobbit]

Pick Up Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet

(I finally read the series btw,... awsome!)

[TheCorpulent1]

I love the Living Tribunal. "Phoenix, you now have the power of a hallucinogenic mushroom." And she would. 'Cause he's the Living Tribunal. Absolute power's great. :)

[Johnny Blaze]

I love the Living Tribunal. "Phoenix, you now have the power of a hallucinogenic mushroom." And she would. 'Cause he's the Living Tribunal. Absolute power's great. :)
If it's like those mushroom's from Alice in Wonderland than I'd say she'd still be too Uber. :o

[Johnny Blaze]

Pick Up Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet

(I finally read the series btw,... awsome!)
Cool, glad you liked it. IMO, it's one of the best mini's Marvel's put out to date. :up:

'Course it helps that I'm a big Thanos fan. :D

[X]

Yeah, that's basically what I said in my posts before. Two things: Hourman doesn't heal himself by manipulating time, he's a sentient machine colony so he auto-repairs very, very quickly; and he's already beaten Amazo numerous times. But way to represent. :) :up:

I know, I know. Amazo is basically underwritten a lot though, the potential's there. Well, it is until we have Hourman beating Amazo's face in for one atrocity or another, the need for dramatics seems to reign over commen sense. :D

[X]

Well, here's a really, really good, comprehensive bio for Devil-Slayer. Few corrections though... He's a superhuman. He bench pressed The Hulk, all 1,260 pounds of him. And this was when he was in a pretty crappy situation to lift him, still did it pretty easy though. And by that bio's standrads, his telepathy was ranked at letting him bench 300 pounds, so that's how much his TK could life. More powerful then. Also, as stated in some pics I earlier stated, his Shadow Cloak gives him acess to all of the myrid dimensions that make up the multiverse, probably that and then some. And his aresenal also compromises of just about every weapon ever, just not medievil weapons. He's pulled futuristic guns from it before, enough to equip and army, laser pistols, and so on.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/bmovie_buff/m_handbook_003_23_rougher.jpg

[JewishHobbit]

okay, on a completely unrelated and 100% off topic side-note:

I just saw Napoleon Dynomite,.... and it has got to be one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. It has no point whatsoever, but I could not stop watching it. I just had to say that.

We now return you to your regularly schedualed DTL Discussion

[The Leaguer]

Napoleon Dynamite owns the whole, wide world. It is pure brilliance from start to finish.

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, when I saw the commercials I thought it looked so stupid. Then my friends saw it and they've never stopped talking about it. So my wife and my sisterl-in-law went to get it and I watched it. All three of us were cracking up from start to finnish. I loved when he threw the "vote for summer" button then ran. Oh my lord that movie is great. I'm going to have to by it for my own collection.

[Johnny Blaze]

No, Super Troopers owns the whole, wide world. :mad:

[JewishHobbit]

I'm sorry but you're the first person I've ever heard actually liked the movie. I've spoken to a good 6 or 7 people and all of them hated it.

[The Leaguer]

Super Troopers is insanely good... but Napoleon Dynamite is better.

[JewishHobbit]

I've never seen ST myself. I figure if I want to see some messed up cops I'll watch Reno911, that doesn't cost me anything

[Johnny Blaze]

I'm sorry but you're the first person I've ever heard actually liked the movie. I've spoken to a good 6 or 7 people and all of them hated it.
Well, those people have no taste for good comedy then. :p

Super Troopers does indeed rule all. :up:

Heh, liter of cola... :D

[The Leaguer]

Reno 911 is hilarious, but it's not the same type of humor as Super Troopers.

[JewishHobbit]

What type of humor is SS's. I like most types except crude humor. For some reason that just turns me off.

[Johnny Blaze]

I'd say it's a combo of crude and stupid with a little bit of slapstick.

[The Leaguer]

Reno 911 was is stupid-cop humor. Super Troopers is mischievous-cop humor.

[JewishHobbit]

Any crude turns me off so I wouldn't like it. Seriously, I could like the whole movie and if it has one crude spot I will instantly hate the movie. I'm wierd like that.

[X]

Somebody should really pick up The Kryptonian. Superman with The Power Cosmic, could transmute Kryptonite, stop solar sucks, and so on. :D :up:

[Johnny Blaze]

Any crude turns me off so I wouldn't like it. Seriously, I could like the whole movie and if it has one crude spot I will instantly hate the movie. I'm wierd like that.
Wow, you are weird. :o :D

Maybe you're a stinkin' mutie too? :mad:

[JewishHobbit]

Darn you X,... we were off topic. How dare you correct us!!!!!!!!!

[The Leaguer]

What's a solar suck.

[The Leaguer]

Any crude turns me off so I wouldn't like it. Seriously, I could like the whole movie and if it has one crude spot I will instantly hate the movie. I'm wierd like that.

There's probably crudity (is that a word?) but I still say try it.

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, you are weird. :o :D

Maybe you're a stinkin' mutie too? :mad:

Hmm, okay I must be tired. I can't even think of a stupid joke, let alone a good one, in response to that. I'm so disappointed in myself. Slap me please!

[X]

What's a solar suck.

You know how people always bring up what happens when The Surfer fights Superman? I like alliteration too, so there.

[X]

Wow, you are weird. :o :D

Maybe you're a stinkin' mutie too? :mad:

Hahaha. :D :up:

[JewishHobbit]

There's probably crudity (is that a word?) but I still say try it.

AS probably has it, it sounds like his type of movie. I may give it a shot. But I am wierd in that I hate watching TV of any kind. Me watching ND was the first time I actually willingly sat down to watch a full movie (save LotR Extended) in about 4 months or so. The only thing on TV that ever catches my attention is Who's LIne. Other than that I never watch TV. I just don't like it.

[JewishHobbit]

Oh, and I watched the Director's Cut of DareDevil too. And that's It.

[Johnny Blaze]

Hmm, okay I must be tired. I can't even think of a stupid joke, let alone a good one, in response to that. I'm so disappointed in myself. Slap me please!
*backhands the halfling*

Better? :)

[Johnny Blaze]

AS probably has it, it sounds like his type of movie. I may give it a shot. But I am wierd in that I hate watching TV of any kind. Me watching ND was the first time I actually willingly sat down to watch a full movie (save LotR Extended) in about 4 months or so. The only thing on TV that ever catches my attention is Who's LIne. Other than that I never watch TV. I just don't like it.
See, I'm the exact opposite in that I'm a big movie buff. I rent movies every week and go to the theater whenever I can...which isn't too often considering the freakin' prices. :o

[JewishHobbit]

I don't mind going to the movies, I just can't these days thanks to a daughter. We went to see Spiderman 2. That was it for a long while until A Series of Unfortunate Events. That will probably be it until Star Wars comes out. I like going to the theators but it's too much of a pain to find baby sitters and all that.

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I have too many hobbies and other things to keep myself busy. I'm on here, writing two differant books, reading comics, playing X-Men Legends, making a humongous Starwars board game with all the toys as figures and such, kicking AS's butt at foosball, etc. And I try to be a dad and husband in there at times,.. oh and work too. I need a few more hours.

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, save your money for your daughter. Movies at the theater are too damn expensive.
If you go see a movie at night with a date, factor in popcorn and drinks and such, you're looking at damn near 30 bucks. :o

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah,... I prefur to just stay home these days. I'm a bit of a hermit.

[The Leaguer]

Bah, just sell your daughter, that should cover a trip to the movies. You'll have to save up for the gas money, though.

[JewishHobbit]

Hey, quick question. I can't recall,... Sentry was labeled Too Uber wasn't he? The Sentry from New Avengers and his mini?

[X]

Yes.

[Johnny Blaze]

We'll have to see how he's handled in New Avenger; see if Bendis brings him down a bit (which I think is gonna happen).
'Course, I may not be reading it long enough to tell. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

There's probably crudity (is that a word?) but I still say try it.
Crudeness, fungus crotch.

And it's totally acceptable for Hourman to beat Amazo. He basically rebooted a section of time to get rid of him the first time, a trick which Amazo couldn't have known about. Then their time powers just sort of canceled each other out and they were left with their other powers. Hourman's pretty strong and tough (I'd assume a notch or two below Martian Manhunter thanks to the Miraclo geneware plus his mechanical body) with a "healing factor," while Amazo appeared to have lost most of the JLA's powers after returning from the future in an upgraded body. Not to mention Hourman comes from the 853rd century, where they fight guys like Solaris, a living sun, who put Amazo to shame.

I go to the movies occasionally. I've been going a lot lately. I went last night to accompany my friend in watching The Incredibles, since she still hadn't seen it and I considered that a travesty. Tomorrow night I'm probably gonna see The Life Aquatic again because it kicked so much ass.

[JewishHobbit]

fungus crotch.... heh

[Johnny Blaze]

Heh, fungus crotch. :D

[JewishHobbit]

holy crap... that's funny

[The Leaguer]

Crudeness, fungus crotch.

Bah, I knew that word, I just felt inventive at the time.

[The Leaguer]

You cut to the core of me, Baxter. :(

[Johnny Blaze]

holy crap... that's funny
Wouldn't that be crude humor though? :D

[JewishHobbit]

.... er......

quite fungus crotch

[Johnny Blaze]

No, my crotch is clean. Leaguer is the one with the fungus problem. :D

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, we've tried to talk to him about it before but he gets very touchy. :o

[The Leaguer]

Dammit, it's a common medical condition! Anyone could have it!

[Johnny Blaze]

Looks like someone forgot to take his medication. :D

[The Leaguer]

Damn this infernal itching...

[Johnny Blaze]

I thought scratching only made it worse?

[TheCorpulent1]

It spreads the fungal spores. :o

[The Leaguer]

I can't help it, it itches so bad.

On a completely unrelated note, shake my hand.

[Johnny Blaze]

Heh, it'd be like that guy from that movie Creepshow who touched that meteorite (I think it was a meteor) and ended up having that alien fungus grow all over him and kill him. Poor bastard looked like a shaved Swamp Thing. :D

[The Leaguer]

That was the Tales from the Crypt movie, right?

[Johnny Blaze]

No, it was called Creepshow, an old 80's cheese movie with a bunch of little shorts.
I think the hick who got cover in the short I'm refering too was actually played by Stephen King now that I think about it.

[The Leaguer]

Well, that's what I meant, it was Tales from the Crypt-ish. From what I remember, the guy on the cover to the movie looks a lot like the Cryptkeeper.

[X]

No, it was called Creepshow, an old 80's cheese movie with a bunch of little shorts.
I think the hick who got cover in the short I'm refering too was actually played by Stephen King now that I think about it.

Hahaha, I especially love The Indian Gas Station Statue coming to life, and that Glob thing in the pond. You know how the geeky guy for no reason starts sticking his hands up that cheerleaders shirt when she's out of it? Yeeah. :D :up:

[X]

Crudeness, fungus crotch.

And it's totally acceptable for Hourman to beat Amazo. He basically rebooted a section of time to get rid of him the first time, a trick which Amazo couldn't have known about. Then their time powers just sort of canceled each other out and they were left with their other powers. Hourman's pretty strong and tough (I'd assume a notch or two below Martian Manhunter thanks to the Miraclo geneware plus his mechanical body) with a "healing factor," while Amazo appeared to have lost most of the JLA's powers after returning from the future in an upgraded body. Not to mention Hourman comes from the 853rd century, where they fight guys like Solaris, a living sun, who put Amazo to shame.

Yeah, I know, I was just... saying.

What happens when you reboot a section of time, exactly? Gives it a new slate?

Never knew he was that strong before either. :up: How tough would he be? And how extensive is his healing ability? I know you gave examples a long, long time ago, I forgot though.

Solaris is a chump. Superman of that era beat him one on one. I think. :D ;)

[TheCorpulent1]

Superman of that era is like pre-Crisis Supes with even more abilities, though. Plus the computer mind, which makes him a super-genius. I think Superman 1 Mil could pwn most of the ubers here.

Hourman basically went back in time to the point where he naively recreated Amazo and wiped the event out of the timestream. It took a lot out of him though, since Amazo had the same time powers he did at that point.

He's pretty tough. I can't think of anything offhand that shows how tough he is, but I'll look it up when I get home. His healing ability is basically nanites reconstructing his body whenever he gets hurt. Off the top of my head I remember his entire body except for his head being destroyed and he regrew his body within seconds. Also, Jay Garrick hit him with his helmet at super-speed, slicing straight through the side of his head, and he just repaired it easily. He didn't appear to feel it either.

[JewishHobbit]

Okay, continuing a discussion AS started over in The Trades thread. Does anyone else feel that the line for what is Uber and what is Too Uber has been raised too far? I don't know, maybe it's just me and AS but when you have these mondo powerful people like Odin, Proteus, etc. it just takes some of the fun out of it. For people who like comics more normal powered such as Spiderman, Batman, or the Majority of X-Men they have to go outside of what they like just to stand a chance. I no longer can tell what the standard for Too Uber is nowadays.

We have people who can just alter reality and Gods and such like that. I don't see what some of the people we've allowed differer from people like King Thor or Onslaught, who we've not allowed. How much differant is Odin than King Thor? Onslaught is a reality shifter just like Proteus. He has a lot of power but with people like Odin and such shouldn't he be allowed in with the rest of them. Or whatabout Phoenix, and by that I mean Phoenix, not Dark Phoenix. She has all that power but wouldn't use it in ways that would seem too Uber these days. Her power couldn't be that far off from some of these others. I don't understand where the line is these days. I don't know, for me if the characters are just too powerful it takes some of the fun away from it.

[TheCorpulent1]

King Thor was much more powerful than Odin because he was nearly as powerful before he inherited the Odinpower. He used the Odinpower more offensively than Odin too.

[Gilrean]

I kinda get the feeling that with some of the new addition Ubers I'll most likely get my butt handed to me. Especially if people vote for just the team line ups and not how the story is written. But hey it's meant to be fun, if I find that win's / loss's are being based souly on what uber(s) a team has and not how the matchs compare then I may re-think how much effort I put into my story's / fights.

Just my thoughts on the uber - to uber thing :)

[X]

Okay, continuing a discussion AS started over in The Trades thread. Does anyone else feel that the line for what is Uber and what is Too Uber has been raised too far? I don't know, maybe it's just me and AS but when you have these mondo powerful people like Odin, Proteus, etc. it just takes some of the fun out of it. For people who like comics more normal powered such as Spiderman, Batman, or the Majority of X-Men they have to go outside of what they like just to stand a chance. I no longer can tell what the standard for Too Uber is nowadays.

We have people who can just alter reality and Gods and such like that. I don't see what some of the people we've allowed differer from people like King Thor or Onslaught, who we've not allowed. How much differant is Odin than King Thor? Onslaught is a reality shifter just like Proteus. He has a lot of power but with people like Odin and such shouldn't he be allowed in with the rest of them. Or whatabout Phoenix, and by that I mean Phoenix, not Dark Phoenix. She has all that power but wouldn't use it in ways that would seem too Uber these days. Her power couldn't be that far off from some of these others. I don't understand where the line is these days. I don't know, for me if the characters are just too powerful it takes some of the fun away from it.

Onslaught can think entire suns into existence. You know, suns that have single flares comparable to millions of nuclear weapons exploding. Proteus is nothing compared to him. Only reason he was brought down was because he used his power as effectively as a wet bag of ****, rampant CIS and PIS.

We have simple, human and close characters, and they fight and we have typical comic book Spider-Man/Doc Ock fights in this, this is why we have ubers, and more regulars then ubers.

Comics are built around power. Think about it... Superman? The Hulk? Thor? Those are staples of comic books, characters that in some instances have been around over 6 decades. And in that time, they have beaten beings well beyond themselves. Thor? Mangog. Superman? The Galactic Golem. The Hulk? The Galaxy Master. Spider-Man has beaten Graviton, normal Spider-Man! This is all circumstancial, and if you were good enough, you could have an entire team of regulars and win this entire thing. We challenge outselves. We have our gods, and we have them insanley powerful, but not to the point where it makes things unfair. Odin? Have The Flash carry Wolverine along with him faster then the speed of life, embedding Wolverine's claws into his chest. He's dead, that simple. Have Paste Pot Pete web up the insides of Tor's mouth, down his throat. The stuff that guy shoots is strong enough to hold The Thing, what's it going to do when it's dripping down his throat?

[X]

Superman of that era is like pre-Crisis Supes with even more abilities, though. Plus the computer mind, which makes him a super-genius. I think Superman 1 Mil could pwn most of the ubers here.

Hourman basically went back in time to the point where he naively recreated Amazo and wiped the event out of the timestream. It took a lot out of him though, since Amazo had the same time powers he did at that point.

He's pretty tough. I can't think of anything offhand that shows how tough he is, but I'll look it up when I get home. His healing ability is basically nanites reconstructing his body whenever he gets hurt. Off the top of my head I remember his entire body except for his head being destroyed and he regrew his body within seconds. Also, Jay Garrick hit him with his helmet at super-speed, slicing straight through the side of his head, and he just repaired it easily. He didn't appear to feel it either.

Hahaha, yeah, I was just saying. Pre-Crisis Superman himself was smart beyond belief.

Thanks for the info. :up:

If you were to damage the main point, the processing center of Hourman's body (Contained in his head, I assume, or is his whole body intertwined like so?) would he die? Like, a pole through the skull or some such?

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, it's never mentioned where his central processor type of thing is or even if he has one. If he does have one, which I don't think he does, it's probably not in his head since that hit from the Flash's helmet would've probably gotten him a little more concerned than it did if the core of his being were in there. He introduces himself as "a sentient machine colony from the year 85,700-something," so I assume that means he's basically made of lots and lots of tiny machines and thus doesn't have a centralized power or processing unit. Kind of like an Eternal, you'd have to destroy him down to the last self-replicating nanite to kill him completely.

[JewishHobbit]

Okay X, I can buy into all that. But here's food for thought as far as Onslaught goes. He could create Suns once he had Nate Grey and Franklin Richards within him, but what about before that. When he was just Xavier he basically had Xavier's power and Magneto's power and that's it. He defeated the X-Men but in the end he didn't even have the strength to finnish them off. He had to be helped out by Dark Beast. Would this version of Onslaught be too Uber? Or what if he just had Franklin Richards. He then could create EM waves and construct buildings and such, but that's all he was shown doing. He wasn't able to do the whole sun thing until He had both Franklin and Nate. Then he had Frank's imagination and power amped by Nate's power which gave him that much strength. So in the end would either of the two earlier version of Onslaught be allowed? (not aruing thing, just wondering really)

And as far as being creative goes I agree that it's fun to be find ways to beat the impossible. I loved trying to find ways to beat Fury last season because he was the "impossible" one so I guess I can maybe get use to it again this season.

[X]

Maybe even beyond that. Ressurection Man's powers work with nanites, and he's been atomized and come back. Then again, I think he's a bit mystical.

About Hourman, how exactly can he fight, besides aging people and what not? I mean, he could age objects to dust, like guns and what not. Obviously coulden't do it to metals that last forever, like Inertron though. I remember Chemical King of The Legion coulen't do anything to the stuff, and you know, he was pretty damned powerful, as all of life is pretty much chemical reactions. Can he put people in a time lock stasis of sorts? Drag you along through time or different dimensions? I know R-Man from the 857th Centurey did that to Superman, to which he commented "Nice pacicfying move." as he was pretty much helpless after Mitch ran him through tons of different realities using his Quantum Speed.

[X]

Okay X, I can buy into all that. But here's food for thought as far as Onslaught goes. He could create Suns once he had Nate Grey and Franklin Richards within him, but what about before that. When he was just Xavier he basically had Xavier's power and Magneto's power and that's it. He defeated the X-Men but in the end he didn't even have the strength to finnish them off. He had to be helped out by Dark Beast. Would this version of Onslaught be too Uber? Or what if he just had Franklin Richards. He then could create EM waves and construct buildings and such, but that's all he was shown doing. He wasn't able to do the whole sun thing until He had both Franklin and Nate. Then he had Frank's imagination and power amped by Nate's power which gave him that much strength. So in the end would either of the two earlier version of Onslaught be allowed? (not aruing thing, just wondering really)

And as far as being creative goes I agree that it's fun to be find ways to beat the impossible. I loved trying to find ways to beat Fury last season because he was the "impossible" one so I guess I can maybe get use to it again this season.

Fury's nowhere near impossible, he had serious trouble with two regulars, as I've said ten thousand times before, Zetigeist and Fascination. Everything is circumstancial. Composite Man's been beaten by a bunch of regulars before, Spider-Man's beaten The Hulk, Morlun, The Rhino, Firelord, Graviton, Pre-****ing Crisis Superman once.

I don't know and honestly don't care much about Onslaught. I don't know if it would be a big enough change to warrant him being allowed or not.

[The Leaguer]

Hahahahahahaha, are you citing the Superman vs. Spider-man one-shot?

[X]

He was infused with red sun radiation, which is perfectly legit and I don't see the reason for the "Hahaha'. He'd still be a regular.

[JewishHobbit]

I know Fury wasn't unbeatable but he was the most difficult to find ways how to do it. As you said he was beaten by regs before but the thing was that he would have learned from those, so now those old tricks wouldn't work.

And I'm just wondering about the Onslaught thing prior to haveing Nate or Franklin in case someone else wants him, because my team's set. But it would help to know if he's legal because I could use him and his powers through Cerebro so I'd like to know. But then now that I think about it I could create someone with Xavier's mind and Magneto's powers alone and that there would pretty much give the abilities, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[The Leaguer]

Because Spider-man had no idea Supes was radiated. Luthor shot Superman without either hero knowing it. As soon as the radiation wore off, Superman handed Spidey his ass. I really don't think that counts as Spidey beating Supes.

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, I just realized Guyver hasn't been on since mid November. Anyone know what's happened with him?

[The Leaguer]

Gilrean said he moved and has no internet access or something.

[JewishHobbit]

Well I guess that could do it

[TheCorpulent1]

Luthor shot Spider-Man with red sun radiation, actually.

Hourman fights very intelligently. He has the Miraclo-enhanced toughness and stuff, but he's not a physical type of person. In fact, one time he punched a guy BECAUSE it was the smartest thing to do. The dude was so enlightened and beyond everything that Hourman just decided, "I wonder what physical force will do to him." And he knocked him out. :) He usually just aged and de-aged people to get them out of the way quickly, since he's primarily concerned with protecting others, not reveling in a fight. Once I get home and look through his solo series again, I'll post some specifics or scans or something.

[X]

Because Spider-man had no idea Supes was radiated. Luthor shot Superman without either hero knowing it. As soon as the radiation wore off, Superman handed Spidey his ass. I really don't think that counts as Spidey beating Supes.

Yeah, this was consistent 70's PC Superman. You know, the planet mover. Spider-Man did give Superman a damned hard time as well, and all things considered, I think it's fair to place it up there among fights like Spider-Man/Thor II, impressive, no? Especially when you look at it in a DTL context, simple thing like that resulting in, well, you know.

[wiegeabo]

Okay, continuing a discussion AS started over in The Trades thread. Does anyone else feel that the line for what is Uber and what is Too Uber has been raised too far?

I'm a little concerned as well. Seems like some characters that have been added could wipe out some other teams by themselves and/or without a great deal of work. While we already have some characters in the league that could take on a team by themselves, they'd have to push themselves to the max.

Now, maybe it's because I haven't read enough issues dealing with the former Too Uber's. But I don't think of someone like Odin being beaten by anyone other than other high-powered gods. Yet, the problem is that I only need to read more examples and issues, then I'm still concerned. When it comes time to vote, people with a similar lack of experince with these characters are porbably going to tend to vote for them by name and reputation alone. I can see the line of thought being something like...'Odin is the king of the Norse gods. He's supposed to be the strongest. How could anyother team beat him?'

[X]

I'm a little concerned as well. Seems like some characters that have been added could wipe out some other teams by themselves and/or without a great deal of work. While we already have some characters in the league that could take on a team by themselves, they'd have to push themselves to the max.

Now, maybe it's because I haven't read enough issues dealing with the former Too Uber's. But I don't think of someone like Odin being beaten by anyone other than other high-powered gods. Yet, the problem is that I only need to read more examples and issues, then I'm still concerned. When it comes time to vote, people with a similar lack of experince with these characters are porbably going to tend to vote for them by name and reputation alone. I can see the line of thought being something like...'Odin is the king of the Norse gods. He's supposed to be the strongest. How could anyother team beat him?'

The only person like that in the DTL is AS. You know, because he's a borderline tard' and what not. I have faith in just about everyone else to read the actual write-up's and what, the points, yadda yadda. Happened last season with Hobbit and me, The Fury ordeal. He was beaten through the power of people listening, a solid plan.

And the potential problem is always going to be there, it's up to the people using and facing those characters to make it all work. We're all quite capable.

[XFanTim]

I sympathize with what Hobbit and wiegeabo are saying. Personally, if I had been setting the rules for the DTL, I would probably have made the upper limit be Silver Surfer level characters. Odin once took out the Surfer with one shot! (Which was probably ridiculous, but it did happen.) But whatever, if we want to keep the upper level at Odin level that's fine, but let's not push it any further. I worry that we'll keep saying "So and so is allowed, and so and so is only slightly more powerful" until everyone is allowed. The fact that someone has been beaten by people in the DTL does not necessarily mean they should be allowed in the DTL I mean, Galactus has been beaten too, but he should never be allowed.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we need to think not only about how powerful a character is by themselves, but also how powerful they are in conjunction with other characters. I mean Franklin Richards by himself would be beatable -- I could have Zoom charge him and break his neck before he could do anything. But if I were fighting, say, Franklin and Dr. Fate, then Dr. Fate could cast some spell before the fight to make Franklin invisible and undectectable, and by the time my characters found him he'd have time to dump them all into some pocket universe or something. (Technically, Franklin could probably hide himself or give himself an inpenetrable shield or something, but I think I could argue that he doesn't have the experience to anticipate that that's something he should do.) Which is why Franklin is too uber, because he can beat your team just by willing it to happen, and with four other characters to basically act as his protectors and strategic advisors, it's more than likely he's going to get the chance to do it.

Not that anyone was arguing Franklin should be allowed (although AS did try to draft him), but I'm just saying, that's the standard we should apply: Would they be too powerful when supported by four other characters? The other thing to remember is that no owner is likely to make the characters as stupid as they are in the comics, even if we're trying to portray them accurately. So when we're dealing with people like Odin, we'll be dealing with Odin using his powers to maximum effect. For instance, Odin can give human beings the power of Thor (hammer included), as he's done on more than one occasion. So what's to stop him from giving each one of his teammates Thor's power during prep time, and leave you fighting 5 ubers? It's not something he'd be likely to do in a comic, but in a comic he'd also not generally be put in a position where he had to fight as part of a five person team -- I don't think it's out of character given the circumstances. Hell, you could pair Odin with Multiple Man and make 50 Thors.

My original point when I started writing this wasn't supposed to be that Odin is too uber, but the more I think about it, Odin actually written by someone who's goal was to make him kick as much ass as possible (as opposed to comic writers who are just trying to tell a good story), he could be pretty ridiculous.

Anyway, my point was we should be careful about including people who will be too powerful when used intelligently and paired with four teammates who can help overcome their weaknesses. I can probably live with Proteus, but Onslaught at any level is too uber. Even if he couldn't create a new sun and do other feats like that before absorbing Franklin, he still did all kinds of ridiculous things like stripping Juggernaut of his power. And the problem is, we didn't really get a chance to see what his limits were in this form. It would be different if he'd suffered a few defeats. But he basically just kicked ass, and when he absorbed Nate and Franklin he kicked even more ass. There's no clearly defined upper limit for him in any form.

[Tropico]

You should rest easy regarding the Odin empowering other characters since no character can be upgraded from their standing (regulars cannot become Med. and so forth). I know that the bar for too Uber was raised this season, but it has been kind of arbitrary IMO. I share your concerns and I hope you get listened to.

[X]

I sympathize with what Hobbit and wiegeabo are saying. Personally, if I had been setting the rules for the DTL, I would probably have made the upper limit be Silver Surfer level characters. Odin once took out the Surfer with one shot! (Which was probably ridiculous, but it did happen.) But whatever, if we want to keep the upper level at Odin level that's fine, but let's not push it any further. I worry that we'll keep saying "So and so is allowed, and so and so is only slightly more powerful" until everyone is allowed. The fact that someone has been beaten by people in the DTL does not necessarily mean they should be allowed in the DTL I mean, Galactus has been beaten too, but he should never be allowed.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we need to think not only about how powerful a character is by themselves, but also how powerful they are in conjunction with other characters. I mean Franklin Richards by himself would be beatable -- I could have Zoom charge him and break his neck before he could do anything. But if I were fighting, say, Franklin and Dr. Fate, then Dr. Fate could cast some spell before the fight to make Franklin invisible and undectectable, and by the time my characters found him he'd have time to dump them all into some pocket universe or something. (Technically, Franklin could probably hide himself or give himself an inpenetrable shield or something, but I think I could argue that he doesn't have the experience to anticipate that that's something he should do.) Which is why Franklin is too uber, because he can beat your team just by willing it to happen, and with four other characters to basically act as his protectors and strategic advisors, it's more than likely he's going to get the chance to do it.

Not that anyone was arguing Franklin should be allowed (although AS did try to draft him), but I'm just saying, that's the standard we should apply: Would they be too powerful when supported by four other characters? The other thing to remember is that no owner is likely to make the characters as stupid as they are in the comics, even if we're trying to portray them accurately. So when we're dealing with people like Odin, we'll be dealing with Odin using his powers to maximum effect. For instance, Odin can give human beings the power of Thor (hammer included), as he's done on more than one occasion. So what's to stop him from giving each one of his teammates Thor's power during prep time, and leave you fighting 5 ubers? It's not something he'd be likely to do in a comic, but in a comic he'd also not generally be put in a position where he had to fight as part of a five person team -- I don't think it's out of character given the circumstances. Hell, you could pair Odin with Multiple Man and make 50 Thors.

My original point when I started writing this wasn't supposed to be that Odin is too uber, but the more I think about it, Odin actually written by someone who's goal was to make him kick as much ass as possible (as opposed to comic writers who are just trying to tell a good story), he could be pretty ridiculous.

Anyway, my point was we should be careful about including people who will be too powerful when used intelligently and paired with four teammates who can help overcome their weaknesses. I can probably live with Proteus, but Onslaught at any level is too uber. Even if he couldn't create a new sun and do other feats like that before absorbing Franklin, he still did all kinds of ridiculous things like stripping Juggernaut of his power. And the problem is, we didn't really get a chance to see what his limits were in this form. It would be different if he'd suffered a few defeats. But he basically just kicked ass, and when he absorbed Nate and Franklin he kicked even more ass. There's no clearly defined upper limit for him in any form.

Odin taking The Surfer out with one shot was ****. Not just stating this either, I've read it. Right after this, Thanos goes on to go toe to toe with Odin, and dispite Odin's best efforts, he cannot kill Thanos. No, he can't even put him down for more then a few seconds, and this was Thanos with no prep, right off the bat, him not even expecting to havr to fight, him and others were forced into it. We also have Odin putting Drax down with a physical blast, despite the fact that Drax cannot be harmed, you know, complete physical invulnerability, Juggernaut like. He's plunged into suns before with the Surfer. Just another pathetic attempt to make Thanos look more powerful. The Silver Surfer once beat two Thanos creations when Thanos had the IG. Surfer also beat Thanos, one on one, no powers in a mystical arena. Whole thing made so much sense it was baffling. And to clear things up even farther, this wasn't immortal Death barred Thanos, pretty sure it wasn't anyhow.

Galactus on Earth should just be discounted, always. He makes for good, epic stories, that's it. Want to see how it really is, no BS? Go and read The Galactus mini from a few years ago. It takes all of Earth's Heroes, massive one sided prep with Reed, the best and most powerful from several other highly advanced planets, The Gladiator, and much more to take down a dying, fighting stupid Galactus. He could of still easily killed everyone, but it "Wasn't worth the energy output". He still could of turned away, regrouped, but he was pretty much insane. Also turned his own machinery on him as well.

Odin just can't make Thor level beings. He bonded Thor to a mortal being to teach him morality. Betta Ray Bill had a hammer just like Mjolnir to give him his power. Making those things is extremely taxing, they take a long time to make, Odin puts a lot of power into the enchantments, and so on. He doesn't forge them himself anyhow.

I really need to post this Odin bio from the 83' MU Handbook, it puts a lot of limitations on Odin. Like, "He cannot time travel under his own power, he cannot move planets" and so on. And like I've said before, he's really not that strong physically. His main thing is his energy projection.

[Johnny Blaze]

About Onslaught, in the beginning he just had Xavier's powers and Magneto's powers and that's it right?
If so, then how did he strip the Juggernaut of his powers?

[TheCorpulent1]

The physical blast on Drax may have some merit. The Hulk's beaten the Juggernaut with physical force, hasn't he?

Other than that, yeah. Odin's basically another Strange or Fate who happens to be super-strong and a badass fighter. Actually, that'd make him basically the same as Fate, come to think of it.

[X]

The physical blast on Drax may have some merit. The Hulk's beaten the Juggernaut with physical force, hasn't he?

Other than that, yeah. Odin's basically another Strange or Fate who happens to be super-strong and a badass fighter. Actually, that'd make him basically the same as Fate, come to think of it.

No, Hulk has never beaten The Juggernaut physically. Juggernaut has never been hurt physically, written well that is. Meaning Pre-Austen.

About Onslaught, in the beginning he just had Xavier's powers and Magneto's powers and that's it right?
If so, then how did he strip the Juggernaut of his powers?

Through complete and utter bull****, that's how. They made up The Juggernaut having Cytorrak's gem, in his friggin chest so Onslaught could conveniantly pluck it out. The whole Onslaught ordeal also gave us a completely new Cytorrak, ignoring everything that had come before. And get this, when Cain first showed up in the Crimson Cosmic during Onslaught, he didn't recognize the place. Makes sense huh?

[Johnny Blaze]

How did he pluck it out? Physically or a creative use of a power?

[JewishHobbit]

The original Onslaught I think would be on par with Odin level ubers, but any branch beyond that is a big no no. Basically he took out all of the X-Men but ot show a limitation he mustered a blast that was ment to kill all the X-Men, thus completing Bishop's traitor to the X-Men story, but Bishop jumped in the way of the blast. Though it knocked him and everyone else out of the fight he did absorb enough of it to keep it from killing anyone. After that Onslaught was spent and had to absorb some energy from Dark Beast just to be able to leave the place. He is a top of the line telepath and Magnetic with an evil anything goes personality. I'd say if Odin and Proteus (Piecemeal) are allowed then Onslaught (Xavier) should be allowed as well. But any more beyond that is way to Uber.

[X]

Just reached right in. You know, despite the fact that it was never, ever there.

[JewishHobbit]

How did he pluck it out? Physically or a creative use of a power?

He put his fingers in his chest and pulled it out. He then trapped him inside of it.

[X]

The original Onslaught I think would be on par with Odin level ubers, but any branch beyond that is a big no no. Basically he took out all of the X-Men but ot show a limitation he mustered a blast that was ment to kill all the X-Men, thus completing Bishop's traitor to the X-Men story, but Bishop jumped in the way of the blast. Though it knocked him and everyone else out of the fight he did absorb enough of it to keep it from killing anyone. After that Onslaught was spent and had to absorb some energy from Dark Beast just to be able to leave the place. He is a top of the line telepath and Magnetic with an evil anything goes personality. I'd say if Odin and Proteus (Piecemeal) are allowed then Onslaught (Xavier) should be allowed as well. But any more beyond that is way to Uber.

God, you know, you really need to stop citing Odin. Proteus isn't anything amazingly special either. Go to the DTL Update thread, they're a lot more impressive people in this thing.

[TheCorpulent1]

So what the hell?? If the first incarnation of Onslaught had Magneto and Xavier's powers, how did he start throwing energy blasts?? :confused:

[X]

Err, Magneto does manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum, so he can do tons of things.

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, then I guess I'd say that the original form of Onslaught would be allowed, with just Xavier's and Magneto's powers.

[TheCorpulent1]

Odd how he rarely does actually manipulate anything other than magnetism then. I never liked the expansion of Magneto's powers.

[XFanTim]

What I really don't like about Onslaught is that his powers are so poorly defined. They say he had Xavier and Magneto's powers, but he did things neither of them could do. Even if Juggernaut had the Cytorrak gem imbeded inside his body (which was never the case before that moment), there's simply no way that Magneto could penetrate Juggernaut's completely indestructable body to get to it. And Xavier's powers should not be able to affect physical matter at all. But even if you see it as Xavier's energy somehow supplementing Magneto's powers, making him Magneto times two, that still shouldn't be enough to overcome Juggernaut's invulnerability.

Also Onslaught's nearly-indestructable armor was portrayed like it was some sort of psionic construct, even though Xavier doesn't have the ability to create physical constructs.

I just feel like the character basically had the power to do whatever was convenient for the story, and that the "combination of Xavier and Magneto" thing was just a lame explanation.

[X]

What I really don't like about Onslaught is that his powers are so poorly defined. They say he had Xavier and Magneto's powers, but he did things neither of them could do. Even if Juggernaut had the Cytorrak gem imbeded inside his body (which was never the case before that moment), there's simply no way that Magneto could penetrate Juggernaut's completely indestructable body to get to it. And Xavier's powers should not be able to affect physical matter at all. But even if you see it as Xavier's energy somehow supplementing Magneto's powers, making him Magneto times two, that still shouldn't be enough to overcome Juggernaut's invulnerability.

Also Onslaught's nearly-indestructable armor was portrayed like it was some sort of psionic construct, even though Xavier doesn't have the ability to create physical constructs.

I just feel like the character basically had the power to do whatever was convenient for the story, and that the "combination of Xavier and Magneto" thing was just a lame explanation.

Well, The Vision did partially solidify inside of The Juggernaut once, so phasing inside of him is legit. Also, Shadowcat was once going against Thor, who someone was magically manipulating so he looked like The Juggernaut. She was sure phasing him into the ground would stop him, and she reserved such tactics for people like him. It stopped Thor, anyhow. Thing is, it's not going to do anything besides upset Cain a little, he's been reduced to a skelaton before, he's unkillable regardless.

[JewishHobbit]

I could definately see that Tim. I don't know, he's one of those borderlines. Before anyone's picked him up I might suggest to JB to ban the character as to keep the arguements that's bound to show up because of him.

And X,... I don't know half the characters in the DTL so all I know are those I talk about. And if Proteus isn't that hot then the bar for Uber has been raised WAY too high. Have you read anything with Proteus?

[TheCorpulent1]

Regardless, phasing has never been part of Xavier or Magneto's powers, so that's still crap. Also, Thor gets owned too often by pussies, but that's another matter entirely.

[JewishHobbit]

Well Nate Grey can phase through objects so maybe Onslaught just taps Xavier's mind further to allow that as well. That is unless it was Nate's telekinesis that handled the phasing, otherwise it's just like Tim said. Whatever works at the moment.

[XFanTim]

Neither Magneto nor Xavier have phasing abilities. Xavier has no power over physical matter at all. I've read a reference published by Marvel (can't remember which) that explicitly states this, and says that any time he used his powers to create a physical effect was either a misremembered account or meant he was actually using some technological device. Basically, they were saying (without coming right out and saying it) "All those times in Prof. X's early appearances where he did stuff like 'mentally scan a facility for bombs' were just screw ups."

If Nate Grey phases it's because he's telekinetic. For some reason, Onslaught seemed to display the abilities of an all-around high level psi like Nate or Phoenix even before absorbing Nate. I think if we are going to allow Onslaught, it needs to be explicitly stated whether he has the full spectrum of psi powers or literally just Xavier's and Magneto's powers.

[XFanTim]

Odin just can't make Thor level beings. He bonded Thor to a mortal being to teach him morality. Betta Ray Bill had a hammer just like Mjolnir to give him his power. Making those things is extremely taxing, they take a long time to make, Odin puts a lot of power into the enchantments, and so on. He doesn't forge them himself anyhow.
Well, I remember reading some story where Odin was pissed at Thor so he took some random red-haired guy and made him into the new Thor. He had his own hammer and everything, and was able to put up an even fight with the original. But it's been a long time since I read it, so maybe there was more to it than I'm remembering.

[TheCorpulent1]

Red Norvell. Odin gave him some power, but he also gave him a bunch of stuff to amp him up to Thor's level, if I remember correctly.

[X]

Well, I remember reading some story where Odin was pissed at Thor so he took some random red-haired guy and made him into the new Thor. He had his own hammer and everything, and was able to put up an even fight with the original. But it's been a long time since I read it, so maybe there was more to it than I'm remembering.

Professor Hulk spanked that Thor. :up:

And that's not even an Odin creation. I forget his exact name, but he's pretty much a being closer to the mythology Thor then anything else.

Regardless, phasing has never been part of Xavier or Magneto's powers, so that's still crap. Also, Thor gets owned too often by pussies, but that's another matter entirely.

Pussies? Shadow Cat phased him half way in the ground, molecules bonded with the ground! That's a respectable way for anybody to go down, and he freed himself in a few minutes anyhow with Mjolnir. Only person I've never seen stopped by being phased into something is Kid MiracleMan by Aza Chorn, a Pre-Crisis Superman like character and then some, he was just out there.

[XFanTim]

Oh my bad, that's right. He had Thor's belt of strength and a bunch of other stuff. Like I said, it's been a while since I read it.

[X]

And X,... I don't know half the characters in the DTL

That just about sums up my arguement right there.

Proteus is okay. The version with no steel weakness and no need to body hop around is better, but still not as good as a lot of the ubers in this thing. You know, like Dr. Strange, who'd make Proteus his *****. Strange is so badass I bet you Wong would spank Proteus, I mean, Strange just rubs a lot of that badassness off onto other people. :up:

[X]

Oh my bad, that's right. He had Thor's belt of strength and a bunch of other stuff. Like I said, it's been a while since I read it.

Yar, no problem. I don't remember it too well myself. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

And that's not even an Odin creation. I forget his exact name, but he's pretty much a being closer to the mythology Thor then anything else.
Yeah, come to think of it, I remember reading something about Red somehow coming into power on his own and Odin later endorsing him after Thor had pissed him off. I don't know what you mean by a being closer to the mythology though. He was a regular guy who gained power and believed he was the real Thor.

[X]

The hair, how he acts, that's what I mean. You ever see Image's Thor? Red looks a lot like that guy, who was modelled after the original, original Thor.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, ok. Yeah, he is basically like the mythological Thor. Redheaded, coarse, not very intelligent. If you want to see a hilarious parody of that version of Thor, check out the Sandman. Thor is the most ridiculous guy you'll ever see. :D

[X]

http://www.norse-man.net/Marvel/Char-G/Gamora.htm

:up:

I think she just looks after it. She's a warrior, dedicated her life, well, didn't start off herself I believe, but she is what she is, ya know?

[XFanTim]

Do any of you know if Gamora has ever used the Time Gem to do anything? I vaguely recall her getting a vision of the future from it once, but that's all I can think of. Is there a reason she never uses it, or does she just not know how?

[AnnoyingSilence]

Hmm, okay I must be tired. I can't even think of a stupid joke, let alone a good one, in response to that. I'm so disappointed in myself. Slap me please!you can't think of one kuz you lack personality

[AnnoyingSilence]

The Silver Surfer once beat two Thanos creations when Thanos had the IG.i just read the IG mini, i did see any such thing... is it in the infinitey wars? haven't gotten to those yet

Odin just can't make Thor level beings. He bonded Thor to a mortal being to teach him morality. Betta Ray Bill had a hammer just like Mjolnir to give him his power. Making those things is extremely taxing, they take a long time to make, Odin puts a lot of power into the enchantments, and so on. He doesn't forge them himself anyhow."It could be used to spawn other great weapons, weaker than mjolnir, blessed directly with the odin power, but greater in numbers!"

an for the mjolnir to be remade all you would have to do is use his(odins) resources(people he or his son has allied with), have surtur use the mold of eitri again to make everyone on the team a very powerful weapon. now i don't know if odin had to rest or how long it took(a day seems good), but i'm sure he'd be able to bless atleast one of'm and be ready for the next days fight. its not the base of thors power, just a focus he uses.

o, he wouldn't even have to use resources, he'd just go to the hldskjalf crystal and find it, bring it back and have a god forge it.

[AnnoyingSilence]

How badass is Proteus with his reality-warping powers? I'm pretty sure other reality warpers like Mad Jim Jaspers and Franklin Richards at full power are too uber...hes up up up there... he took out each x-man that challenged him... only being distracted(kuz hes young an un exp.ed) by his moms, an then being convinced to commit suicide did he lose... but with'm on my team, i'll have'm haven fun with MZX an taken everyone out.

as for franklin, i haven't read anything with him as full power(only talked about as such), but he can't do much kuz he can't take the head aches

[AnnoyingSilence]

AS probably has it, it sounds like his type of movie. I may give it a shot. But I am wierd in that I hate watching TV of any kind. Me watching ND was the first time I actually willingly sat down to watch a full movie (save LotR Extended) in about 4 months or so. The only thing on TV that ever catches my attention is Who's LIne. Other than that I never watch TV. I just don't like it.i do not have super troopers... not worth buyin AT ALL... its hilarious in the begining... then, i dunno i walked out of the movie theater

[AnnoyingSilence]

The only person like that in the DTL is AS. You know, because he's a borderline tard' and what not. I have faith in just about everyone else to read the actual write-up's and what, the points, yadda yadda. Happened last season with Hobbit and me, The Fury ordeal. He was beaten through the power of people listening, a solid plan.
need i remind you that last season i was flyin blind an had not read a comic in my life? and in the last 4 1/2 months i have put away over 1500 comics(if not more, kuz even with the last couple stacks that JHs' been settin up for me i've also been readin my dc comics plus haven him add other stories on top of that(Infinity Guanlet, Avengers, X-men Ultimates, Exiles, etc...)) and still adding, largely at that, i'm waiting on 3 issues an i'll finish the outsiders an have read all of orion, not to mention i'm tryin to get all the flash, jla, jsa, legion, batman/superman, wonderwoman, superman, etc... to add to my list of read titels.

as for onsluaght, i'd say they over wrote him(just to make it alil more interesting) with the whole juggy thang. i'd say hes uber with the abilities of xavier(i've only known him to be one strength) an magneto(when he ruled over avalon where it was of no contest to pull it down to earth just to try to recruite some people).

[Elijya]

I'm kinda drawing a blank on how to handle proteus. HE only ever fought the x-men, and only lost the second time because he choose to, how do other Ubers stand up to him? :confused:

[The Leaguer]

Yeah, this was consistent 70's PC Superman. You know, the planet mover. Spider-Man did give Superman a damned hard time as well, and all things considered, I think it's fair to place it up there among fights like Spider-Man/Thor II, impressive, no? Especially when you look at it in a DTL context, simple thing like that resulting in, well, you know.

Sorry I'm replying to this so late, but the internet in my building was down until just now, so I wasn't able to log on.

All things considered, I don't think how Spider-Man faired against Superman was impressive at all. As Corp corrected, Spider-Man was pumped full of red solar radiation, he went into the fight blind and got extremely lucky. As soon as his luck (and in this case, the solar radiation) wore off, he got his ass handed to him. I don't know the Spider-Man/Thor fight you referenced, so I can't comment on it. Spider-Man being pumped up like that wouldn't be unlikely for the DTL, but I think the specifics of the fight prevent the fight from being considered an accomplishment.

[Ahura Mazda]

Johnny,

It would appear that I will be partnering up with Drakon if that is ok with everybody.

Thanks

[Johnny Blaze]

No problem. Just make sure he knows that only one of you will be able to post a writeup and vote for the matches.

[X]

Sorry I'm replying to this so late, but the internet in my building was down until just now, so I wasn't able to log on.

All things considered, I don't think how Spider-Man faired against Superman was impressive at all. As Corp corrected, Spider-Man was pumped full of red solar radiation, he went into the fight blind and got extremely lucky. As soon as his luck (and in this case, the solar radiation) wore off, he got his ass handed to him. I don't know the Spider-Man/Thor fight you referenced, so I can't comment on it. Spider-Man being pumped up like that wouldn't be unlikely for the DTL, but I think the specifics of the fight prevent the fight from being considered an accomplishment.

Spider-Man hurt him, knocked him around. Pre-Crisis Superman. Spider-Man. Really, do I have to elaborate? Yeah, sure, it wore off and the wun turrent from one of Supermans punches knocked the crap out of Parker, but still.

[The Leaguer]

There's nothing to elaborate on: the fight is pure shenanigans. First of all, you have stressed greatly that Pre-Crisis carries no weight at all. Second, Spidey was amped up on red sun radiation and neither of them knew it, so the fight was highly circumstancial. The point is, the fight is hardly impressive.

[X]

Do you also notice how I always say "Consistent 70's PC Superman?". No, serious stories were told. Late fifties (58) to late 60's Superboy stuff however, is way, way out there. Notice, in all of Superman's Pre Crisis crossovers, he was a planet mover, this was stated more then once. No, he wasn't being potrayed as a fantasy type, simple story with some morale tale at the end of it all.

[Guyverjay]

The raw emotions which pour forth from this being, emanating from his every pore, they are picked up by Aza Chorn, beyond the realm of the five senses, for he is a telepath. Aza Chorn speaks. "I sense a great disease in you, and I mourn and ail with you. If you would like to speak..." Aza Chorn is cut off. "For one, I don't want you in my head" The Composite almost snarls these words as he mentally slams the door in Aza Chorn's face. Secondly, I don't want your pity. Leave me be." Aza Chorn does not speak, he does not enlighten The Composite Man to the fact that he was not probing his mind, he simply felt his own, practically broadcasted emotions. Eric Simon Payne must of felt them as well, but he does not betray this knowledge. Aza Chorn lets silence reign once again, and the albino Warpsmith almost seems to grin, a rare sign of outward emotion. Does he know what is to come? A bitter battle? A new cluster husband, closer then blood or words can describe? An enemy of the worst kind? He can not definitively say, and does not think on the matter too heavily. For what will happen, will happen.

Doors suddenly open, ten of them, in the walls of the previously closed off room. No one immediately reacts, for they have all seem their share of strange happenings today, in their entire lives even. Each one of The New Defenders instinctively feel what they are, gateways back to their hopes, their dreams, their aspirations, and they know which ones are theirs. The Scarlet Witch prepares to leave back to hers, and invites Rom, The Karate Kid, and Animal Man. She tells them of the soup which is hopefully still warm, and how she would enjoy their company. They feel the same way. For company, understanding, conversation in times like these is a blessing. They depart. Aza Chorn, silently, spins on his heel, and purposefully walks back to his homescape. And as he does, as he is almost through the doorway, The Composite Man looks, melancholy rising in his breast. Aquarian accepts Takion's invitation back to New Genesis, he does believe that he shall enjoy the visit. Smiling, they both depart.

The Absorbing Man, Carl Creel, lifts his head and stares at Eric Simon Payne, Devil-Slayer. Even such a hardened man as Creel is shaken by the mans appearance, he almost... fears making eye contact with him. Carl Creel stands, prison ball slung over his shoulder, and he departs, wordlessly. And what of Eric Simon Payne and The Composite Man, two tortured souls who couldn’t be any more different, or any more alike? After a long while, Eric Simon Payne leaves, not looking back, to his unspace. And The Composite Man? The nameless, angst-ridden living weapon? He does not dare face them again. He sits, wraps his arms around his ankles, and weeps.

Man....that was the bollocks:eek:

[X]

Hahaha, what do you mean?

[Guyverjay]

brit slang means damn good!!!

Thumbs up

[X]

Hahaha, thanks. :) :up:

I've been reading V for Vendetta, and bollocks didn't seem to be a good thing, but ah well. :D

[Guyverjay]

Yeah very impressive, I had hoped for a longer c-man bit but still I enjoyed it

[X]

Thank again, I appreciate it a lot. :up:

Composite Man, he's without a doubt going to have the biggest parts in the future. I kind of wanted to leave him myterious, a sense of forboding, and so on.

[Guyverjay]

Cool cool can't wait

er....when does season 2 start any how?:confused:

[The Leaguer]

Thursday.

[yenaled]

Hahaha, thanks. :) :up:

I've been reading V for Vendetta, and bollocks didn't seem to be a good thing, but ah well. :D

I'm British, bollocks means crap/rubbish/****.

The Dogs bollocks however means very good.

[X]

Ah, okay. I get ya. :)

[The Leaguer]

It's like saying, "It's the s***."

[AnnoyingSilence]

in other words bollocks has a high potential for getting bleeped out like ****, ****, ****, *****, *******************************, etc...

just playing... i shift/8ed all of it

[yenaled]

I wouldn't say bollocks is swearing though, it's common slang for something crap.

[X]

Hey, why hasn't anyone picked up Pyro? I mean, he'd make a great regular... He can push Colossus to his melting point, that's pretty impressive. And taking into consideration the amount of control her has over his flame, imagine if he made that fire snake inside of you, through your nose, ears, mouth... He could take tons of people out! I dunno, just thought I'd speak up. :)

[JewishHobbit]

I almost did to tell you the truth. But I figured he was one of those characters that I'd say was cool and everyone else would say "well you should have picked up so and so, he's way better." So I just found someone I wanted more (Shola :))

[primemover]

Hey yenaled, I need to know which grey hulk you have concerning one issue, 'how' he transforms. Early on he only transformed at night, then later he was able to do it via will power, here is an excerpt from a site:

Transformation: Initially, Bruce would transform into the Grey Hulk at night and then back at dawn. This was subconscious due to the fact that Bruce was ashamed of the dark, not very nice thoughts the Grey Hulk represented and would only let him out at night, in the dark, where he wouldn't be seen. Later, the change was due to will power.

If the case is he doesn't have to pick one, he can just use whichever he wants, I guess that would mean I can to?

Second thing, connected with the question above, is the JLA moon watchtower always in sunlight, always in the dark, or does it have day and night, and whichever way, at one time of the day does this battle take place?

[TheCorpulent1]

Er... depends on where the Watchtower is on the moon.

[primemover]

The same occurs on the moon. However, the difference is that It takes 28.5 days for the moon to spin about its axis. So one moon-day is 28.5 Earth-days long!

So in the real world, there is a day/night cycle, so I would need a time when this battle would take place, during the day, or during the night.

[TheCorpulent1]

Or, we could just assume yen would do what just about any sane person would do and pick the gray Hulk who transforms by force of will...

[yenaled]

I'll take force of will for a win please.

[AnnoyingSilence]

I'm kinda drawing a blank on how to handle proteus. HE only ever fought the x-men, and only lost the second time because he choose to, how do other Ubers stand up to him? :confused:the second proteus only lost to the x-men kuz he choose to. the first proteus lost kuz he entered colossus an didn't instantly take him over, givving colossus time to change into his metal form forcing him out. then colossus took'm out by grabbing a hold of'm...

[AnnoyingSilence]

Err, Magneto does manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum, so he can do tons of things.very true, i was reading the secret wars(one) today and maggy mad something(i dunno what kuz he nor wasp said what it was and it didn't have a distinct form) using just the iron in the air. it pointed out that he was concentrating very hard kuz w/e he was making was very dense.

Professor Hulk spanked that Thor. :up:i see that happening... i mean if you stay on thor in a physical fight(overwhelming ofcourse) then it can happen. from what i've seen of thor, hes mostly a "power person". mean that most of his attacks are like storm or cyclopse. not saying that thor can't dish it out but, as strong as the hulk is if he didn't give him time to summon something or slam his hammer to clear the area... hulk would definitely destroy thor

Proteus is okay. The version with no steel weakness and no need to body hop around is better, but still not as good as a lot of the ubers in this thing. You know, like Dr. Strange, who'd make Proteus his *****. Strange is so badass I bet you Wong would spank Proteus, I mean, Strange just rubs a lot of that badassness off onto other people. :up:see i think the second proteus should be allowed also... i'm not totally sure but, i don't believe that the second proteus was fully invulnerable to physical contact. and if he is, then thats a whole new reason that he should be out that, besides is inexperience... you'd have to have someoen out there directing him to make smart moves... i mean you have molecule man who just dropped 15billion tons of mountain ontop of some heros(secret wars#3), but hes in the dtl... he(MM) remarked that he could stop the savage storm that was remarked at being so strong thad it would've killed people from the sheer magnitude of it... it must had been storng enough for storm not to control because i seen her making no effort of it.

[AnnoyingSilence]

Also Onslaught's nearly-indestructable armor was portrayed like it was some sort of psionic construct, even though Xavier doesn't have the ability to create physical constructs.

the "combination of Xavier and Magneto" thing was just a lame explanation.if you remember, durring the story(i forgot who pointed it out, i think onsluaght did) when nate pulled xavier into reality from his astral for Onslaught was given form. i believe that w/e xavier used to protect himself against grey was the basis of his armor. so if you think about it, it would take something psionic to peirce it. and since his armor was psionicly based he could of easily made it stronger using the astral plane to do so. i think this maybe a factor since it was so easy for him to pull jean into the astral plane(so much so that she disappeared from the physical realm). about xavier giving maggys' powers a boast, don't you think he couldv'e used also maggys' power to augment xaviers powers also? i mean mag did show a couple times when he did you into someones brain to do some shifting around. much like xavier does when he augments also.

and i disagree, i think the xavier/magneto explanation was perfect

[AnnoyingSilence]

I could definately see that Tim. I don't know, he's one of those borderlines. Before anyone's picked him up I might suggest to JB to ban the character as to keep the arguements that's bound to show up because of him.ban him? arguments? i mean if someone trys the juggy thing again, yeah... but i don't see that happening in the dtl. i believe that part was writen in just go give more then just the onsluaght story line and show how willful cain is.

as for onslaught... i'd say that xavier and magnetos powers should limit people from using other powers thru onsluaght himself. he has 2 very strong an very exp.ed people inside him that will basicly give him an edge in any matter at hand. but i'm sure you can say the samething for powerful being such as amazo, exodus, CABLE, CEREBRO, etc...

Well Nate Grey can phase through objects so maybe Onslaught just taps Xavier's mind further to allow that as well. That is unless it was Nate's telekinesis that handled the phasing, otherwise it's just like Tim said. Whatever works at the moment.i believe that saga was all-about what works best. it was a very good story an i don't see marvel comming out with anything better(i might change my mind later on, but i've been past that story an into alot of other. its a possiblity that i might find a marvel story that will surpass it... but i doubt that)

[AnnoyingSilence]

look at mehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/jusreal/stupid%20stuff/Avatar1.gif
look at mehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/jusreal/stupid%20stuff/Avatar1.gif
look at mehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/jusreal/stupid%20stuff/Avatar1.gif

[AnnoyingSilence]

if proteus isl vulnerable to physical attack(remember just kuz he doesn't have a weakness doesn't make him invulnerable like juggy or doomsday) but is still too uber then peace out to alot of moleclear-level characters(like molecule man, firestorm, etc...)

[primemover]

I'll take force of will for a win please.

thanks yenaled

[JewishHobbit]

if proteus isl vulnerable to physical attack(remember just kuz he doesn't have a weakness doesn't make him invulnerable like juggy or doomsday) but is still too uber then peace out to alot of moleclear-level characters(like molecule man, firestorm, etc...)

AS means Proteus (Piecemeal) by the way. And just so all knows, he can be physically hit, though I don't know how much damage can be done to him. Basically we saw two instances where he was physically hit. First was Cyclop's eye beams hit him at the feet/ground and it made him loose his balance. Then Beast jumps up with metal gauntlets (tring to imitate Colossus before we learned that it wouldn't work) and hits him in the back. He is all bent over on the impact showing a very physical blow. Proteus kinda blinked away and appeared elsewhere just fine. So yes he can be physically assaulted, but I don't know how much is needed to actually harm him, that would just be speculated.

[XFanTim]

I still think Onslaught's powers would need to be spelled out if we're going to use them. In the story he could basically do whatever the situation called for, including impossible things like taking away Juggernaut's powers. Clearly Onslaught isn't just the usual powers of Xavier + the usual powers of Magneto, because he did stuff like generate psionic armor that neither of them could do. AS is right that they said he learned this trick from Nate Grey, but the fact is generating psionic projections in the physical world was something Xavier never had the ability to do before or afterwards -- only while he was Onslaught. Also neither Xavier nor Magneto can absorb other beings into himself, but Onslaught does this with Franklin and Nate Grey. My point is, I can't just add up the list of things Xavier can do and the list of things Magneto can do and get an accurate list of things that Onslaught can do. I'm not even sure he has all of Magneto's powers. I don't really recall him ever manipulating metal, the closest thing to a Magneto power I remember is energy projection, which could have just been Xavier. It doesn't really make sense that he would have Magneto's powers -- he absorbed Magneto's mind, but that should just give him the knowledge of how to use those powers, not the physical ability.

At any rate, the powers Onslaught actually seemed to use (that I can remember, haven't re-read the story since it came out), were:

- Impenetrable psionic armor
- Better than Juggernaut-level strength
- Xavier's telepathic powers
- Energy projection
- Ability to absorb other beings into his body and take their powers
- Inexplicable ability to remove Juggernaut's powers

If someone else can think of more to add to the list, that's fine, but I think in any case it needs to be clearly spelled out. As it is right now, I couldn't do a write-up with Onslaught (even having read his story), because it isn't at all clear to me what he could do. I don't think we can just say "anything Xavier can do + anything Magneto can do", because he does things that neither has ever done before or since (like the armor, or like absorbing other beings into himself).

Also, is his form underneath the armor just pure psionic energy, or was this only true after he'd absorbed Franklin and Nate? In other words, does he still have Xavier's body underneath?

[Ahura Mazda]

Johnny,

Just to be fair, I would like to say that my write up will probably not be up until Friday as i really have not had the time to do it and I will not have internet access at home for another month. I have already warned Gilrean and she is ok with it. I apologise but I will not be able to do better.

[Guyverjay]

**** onslaught...his powers are all over the place. He hit Juggy from Vancouver to New Jersey:rolleyes:

In fact Juggy was basically used as a fall guy (disregarding virtually every appearance he's ever had) by the writer to give onslaught credibility.

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, here's what I'll do. For now I'll put Onslaught back under too Uber until we get a better definition on the powers he'd have.

Mazda: You can post your writeup whenever you damn well please. :D
I usually don't end up putting mine up until late Friday night or early Saturday morning. :up:

[Elijya]

**** onslaught...his powers are all over the place. He hit Juggy from Vancouver to New Jersey:rolleyes:

In fact Juggy was basically used as a fall guy (disregarding virtually every appearance he's ever had) by the writer to give onslaught credibility.

had nothing to do with pent up rage towards Cain from xavier's childhood, right? :rolleyes:

[TheCorpulent1]

I think Guyver was addressing the displays of power more than the motivation. The writers may have had Onslaught go up against Juggernaut because of Xavier's resentment of Cain, but they had him dominate Juggernaut so utterly and so inexplicably because they wanted the readers to have a measuring stick for Onslaught's power, which seems inflated for the powers he actually would've had from the description of the fight to me.

[Guyverjay]

I think Guyver was addressing the displays of power more than the motivation. The writers may have had Onslaught go up against Juggernaut because of Xavier's resentment of Cain, but they had him dominate Juggernaut so utterly and so inexplicably because they wanted the readers to have a measuring stick for Onslaught's power, which seems inflated for the powers he actually would've had from the description of the fight to me.


Yay Corp understood. Good thing you explained it corp or I would have had to slap Elijya back to moron land:p

[Elijya]

you said he was used as the fall guy, indicating he was a random choice, chosen only because he was powerful. My response was logical

[Guyverjay]

Corp understood what I meant, you didn't. Its not my fault:(

[Elijya]

you could have just said that without the insult, then

[Guyverjay]

I could of but that just wouldn't be me , would it?:up:

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I'm okay with Onslaught being bumped up to too uber. I think it's best that way. Otherwise I can forsee hours of arguing about what he can and can't do and what things he can do without being deemed too uber.

[Johnny Blaze]

Yeah, you are a prick Guyver. :o

But, you're definitely my favorite prick on the Hype. :D

[Guyverjay]

I love you too:D

[Johnny Blaze]

Yeah, I'm okay with Onslaught being bumped up to too uber. I think it's best that way. Otherwise I can forsee hours of arguing about what he can and can't do and what things he can do without being deemed too uber. I agree, which is why I switched him back. :up:
In the future the original version might be allowed, if everyone can agree on what all his powers really are.

[Elijya]

I think there're a number of cosmics and magics who could take him on, but I also think it'd be better to avoid arguing

[LadyVader]

Prologue

*Somewhere... some time*

X-man: So are we going to do this or what?
Deadpool: Play Twister?
X-man: No… join this DTL… thing…
Mystique: I have better things to do with my time then to jump around and parade in front of some horny little…
Dr Fate: Tread lightly, blue Lady. Those of whom you speak have great power, for they extracted us all from our respective dimensions.
Mystique: Kidnapped is more like it…
Sage: I’m puzzled as to why us… why this team? X-man…
X-man: I had no better luck in scanning their minds then you Sage. All I could sense were your thoughts… well, some of you anyway and after we talked I realised we’re all heroes from…
Deadpool: Hey!
X-man: Uhm… champions?
Deadpool: You’re one step away, missy!
X-man: Well what would you say we are?
Deadpool: Primo quality ass-kickers.
X-man rolls eyes : As I was saying, we’re all … warrios (Deadpool: I can work with that) from paralel dimensions.
Jessie Quick: Well,Ilike mydimensionandIwantgetbacktoit.Thanksbutnothanks.T heofferiscrazy tobeginwith.
…
Deadpool: Did anybody catch that?
Indigo playing a recording of Jessie on slow motion: „Thanks but no thanks.”
Black Canary: I’m flattered that they’d want me on the same team with somebody like Wonder Woman… but honestly, I don’t see the point in doing what they asked us. I already have my team, and stuff to work out with… uhm… somebody. My plate is full.
X-man: But they already said they have the power to send us back to the exact moment in time they picked us up…
Mystique: Kindapped…
X-man: Whatever! Point is, we wouldn’t waste time. And if we want out, they’ll let us out.
Sage: I don’t think so… From what I understood from their proposal if we agree, we’d have to sign a binding contract, in order to finish what we started.
Dr Fate: What can they do? Sue us?
Deadpool: Hey! I’m not signing anything without my lawyer.
Mystique: You have a lawyer?
Deadpool: Uhm… ever heard of Matt Murdock?
Sage: The Matt Murdock is your lawyer?
Deadpool: Are you kidding? We’re best buds, amigos, compadres, tovarish-es… he even gave me a dog. The fun we used to have, that old banana peel on the floor joke never got old with him...
Black Canary: Hey, robot guy.
Deadpool: D’OH! She’s interrupting me!
X-man: God bless her…
Black Canary: Yeah, you. You haven’t said anything about this whole deal. What is your input?
Punisher robot: Destroy!
Dr Fate: I think that would be a „yes”.
Mystique: It’s just plain stupid.
Indigo: Please do not make fun of artificial life forms.
Mystique: Ohhh… the toaster speaks. On her own even.
Sage: Please, do not antagonize the robot. She could be dangerous.
Mystique: And I’m a bisexual pushing 100, kidnapped by omnipotent aliens or whatever while PMS-ing like crazy. Who the hell is more dangerous then me? *
Wonder Woman entering the room: Me.
Everybody shuts up
Wonder Woman: Now listen. I’ve talked to our… hosts
Mystique snorts
Wonder Woman: This tournament they want us to participate in... They promise nobody will get hurt, and the losers will simply be sent home. All this is done for their simple entertainment but the experience we gain could prove invaluable in future real combat situations. Further more, they promise to fulfill one wish for every member of the team that wins.
Jessie Quick: Onlyone?
Black Canary: They’re pretty stiff if you ask me… We’re risking our lives here.
Wonder Woman: Nobody is risking their life. Whatever wounds you get in combat will be instantly healed.
Sage: What if those wounds are fatal?
X-man: They won’t be… this isn’t a real fight.
Deadpool: For one of the world’s strongest psychics, you sure are dense.
X-man: Excuse me if unlike other people I have self control.
Mystique: If entertainment is what they want, then they want blood. It’s as simple as that. Count me out.
Punisher Robot: Kill!
Black Canary: I’m with the blue girl.
Jessie Quick: I just remembered… I have a board meeting in 5 minutes… send me back!
Punisher Robot: Conquer!!
Sage: I’m the strategist here, and I’m telling you. We’re not a good team. We’re going down first chance we get. No.
Punisher Robot: Destroy!!!!!!
Deapool: Wilmaaaaaaa!
X-man: Ok… now I’m pissed. closes eyes and concentrates
Jessie Quick: Sure,I’lljoinin!
Dr Fate: Indeed.
Black Canary: Sounds like a good plan!
Wonder Woman: Stop that!
Mystique: I’m supposed to trust this guy to be my team member? Look what he’s doing. Manipulating those who aren’t fortunate enough to be psychic proof.
Wonder Woman: Why are you so insistent anyway?
Sage: Because he doesn’t exist anymore… in our universe… this is all he has now.
Wonder Woman, Mystique, Deadpool, Indigo: Oh…
Punisher Robot: Sad.
X-man: I don’t need your pity, I just need your acceptance. Will you do this? Not for me but for yourselves. This could be the adventure of your lives. What do you say?
Wonder Woman: Yes.
Mystique: I better start kicking somebody’s ass… and soon!
Dr Fate: I’m in the same situation X-man. We are now team mates.
Punisher Robot: Destroy!
Jessie Quick: Hey, Ihavea…. I have a question. What happens to the losers of these matches.
Wonder Woman: When the championship is over they get sent home.
Jessie Quick: That’s good enough for me, WW. Let’s do it…
Indigo: There is only a 1,3% chance we’re going to win this, but I wish to go against the odds.
Sage: You’re going to need me. So I’m staying.
X-man: I think that’s everybody…
Deadpool: HEY!
X-man: sighs Do we have to keep him?
Sage: This is the team our sponsors picked. This is who they want to represent them.
Deadpool: My loyal fans…
Wonder Woman: Now there is one thing left to do.
Deadpool: Play twister!
Wonder Woman: No… X-man… Nate … will you do the honors?

X-man gets up from the chair in which he had been sitting. The 10 heroes were all seated at round table in a conference room. Nate walks over to 2 big wooden doors opens them and says:
“Dear inter-dimensional omnipotent alien tv-executives. The answer is yes. We will join your reality show”



*Yes, I stole that line from Kevin Smith. It’s not mine so don’t anybody go and sue me or something.

So this is my Prologue. Uhm… a bit of a stretch them accepting like that but hey, I ain’t no Asimov. And yeah, omnipotent tv-executives? Stop, don't throw them rottent tomatoes yet. They say all the world's a stage. In this case all the world's a tv studio. :)
This was done for strictly practical reasons. And I think it will get more serious down the line… I think. I didn’t know what to do with the Punisher Robot. Sorry if I made him a bit dumb but hey… he had depth for a robot. J

Ok… cya friday!

[LadyVader]

^I just figured I say a lot of "but hey"s up there. :D

[AnnoyingSilence]

I still think Onslaught's powers would need to be spelled out if we're going to use them. In the story he could basically do whatever the situation called for, including impossible things like taking away Juggernaut's powers.do you not comprehend english... can you not understand magneto/xavier only

Clearly Onslaught isn't just the usual powers of Xavier + the usual powers of Magneto, because he did stuff like generate psionic armor that neither of them could do. AS is right that they said he learned this trick from Nate Grey, but the fact is generating psionic projections in the physical world was something Xavier never had the ability to do before or afterwards -- only while he was Onslaught.i'm sorry, you didn't see that xavier created psionic armor also? an with the power of magneto, i'm sure if he concentrated enough that he could form armor out of no where(an remember, there is pre-battle givving magneto alot of time to do something like that)

Also neither Xavier nor Magneto can absorb other beings into himself, but Onslaught does this with Franklin and Nate Grey. My point is, I can't just add up the list of things Xavier can do and the list of things Magneto can do and get an accurate list of things that Onslaught can do. I'm not even sure he has all of Magneto's powers. I don't really recall him ever manipulating metal, the closest thing to a Magneto power I remember is energy projection, which could have just been Xavier. It doesn't really make sense that he would have Magneto's powers -- he absorbed Magneto's mind, but that should just give him the knowledge of how to use those powers, not the physical ability.we are not focusing on the whole onsluaght story, just the 1st marvel onslaught universe where xavier was still part of him and not inside him.

At any rate, the powers Onslaught actually seemed to use (that I can remember, haven't re-read the story since it came out), were:

- Impenetrable psionic armor
- Better than Juggernaut-level strength
- Xavier's telepathic powers
- Energy projection
- Ability to absorb other beings into his body and take their powers
- Inexplicable ability to remove Juggernaut's powershere let me fix this
- Better than Juggernaut-level strength(post knocked out juggy, read it again)
- Energy projection(even xavier has this ability in psi form)
- Ability to absorb other beings into his body and take their powers(not availible to the version of onslaught that we're using)
- Inexplicable ability to remove Juggernaut's powers(definitely an over write to make it more interesting, plus i don't think anyone has jugy right now anyway and i would need onluaght to woop-up-on'm anyway)

If someone else can think of more to add to the list, that's fine, but I think in any case it needs to be clearly spelled out. As it is right now, I couldn't do a write-up with Onslaught (even having read his story), because it isn't at all clear to me what he could do. I don't think we can just say "anything Xavier can do + anything Magneto can do", because he does things that neither has ever done before or sinceobviously you mind can't handle "xavier/magneto", its not hard to comprehend... here let me spell it out for you:

- psionic
- magnetic

yes if you combined the two you might get alittle more that what you expect but your focusing on the full onsluaght. read only the 1st issue(TPB's are for lossers)

[Harlekin]

Both Mags and Xavier are ubers, and you want to combine them? My opinion? Way too uber.

[X]

Well, we do have a comglomerate of The Juggernaut and Xavier, and The Juggernaut's beaten Magneto before, two times if you want to count Xavier Juggs What If appearance.

[The Leaguer]

Martian Manhunter is like a combination of Superman and Xavier, with a bunch of other fun stuff thrown in. He is teh win.

[X]

And Fernus is nasty, with the power to phase people into **** and leave them there. :up:

[The Leaguer]

Yeah, Fernus is even more teh win.

[XFanTim]

do you not comprehend english... can you not understand magneto/xavier only
I understand enough to read a comic and learn that that's not remotely an accurate description of Onslaught.

i'm sorry, you didn't see that xavier created psionic armor also?
Xavier can create psionic armor for his astral form. If there's ever been a time when he created and animate armor for his physical body (which I can't recall ever reading), then this contradicts many descriptions of his powers published by Marvel, which say he can't use his powers to move anything. If he can psionically create a physical body and walk around, then why the **** does he use a wheel-chair?! Onslaught had a psionically created body with extreme super-strength -- even if you assume Onslaught was 100 times more powerful than Xavier (in which case he's too uber anyway), Xavier still should have been able to create some psionic leg-armor strong enough to let him walk around. But he couldn't, because he doesn't have that power! He had to use a robotic exo-skeleton to walk around on the Avalon station in Fatal Attractions, and even powering that was enough of an energy expenditure that it left his telepathy weakened.

Ability to absorb other beings into his body and take their powers(not availible to the version of onslaught that we're using)
Bull****, when he absorbed Franklin (or maybe it was Nate, whichever he absorbed first) he was just the Xavier/Magneto Onslaught (the version we're using), and yet he was able to absorb people -- a power neither Xavier nor Magneto had.

By the way, not only did he somehow nullify Juggernaut's powers so that he could rip out the gem (or perhaps he's just so strong he can tear right through Juggy's flesh), he then trapped Juggernaut inside the gem! So apparently Onslaught has magical abilities too. This was the Xavier/Magneto Onslaught.

obviously you mind can't handle "xavier/magneto", its not hard to comprehend... here let me spell it out for you:

- psionic
- magnetic
Look, if you want to pretend there was some character who just had Xavier's and Magneto's abilities, that's your business, but that's sure not an accurate description of Onslaught.

[X]

Onslaught was strong and everything, but he wasn't Cytorrak powerful, to be able to just negate The Juggernaut's powers and poke right through him. Look at The Hulk... He overpowered Onslaught when he was pinned on the ground, and shattered his armor. Regardless of how powerful he was, gem was never, ever in The Juggernaut's chest. Peroid.

[Guyverjay]

I still say we should go back to my earlier statment


**** onslaught:p

Meh I'm a juggy fanboy:(

[The Leaguer]

I understand enough to read a comic and learn that that's not remotely an accurate description of Onslaught.

Hahahahahahahaha!

[JewishHobbit]

And now we see why he's not allowed. Even when he's not in the DTL he's causing arguments. Agree to disagree and move on, Onslaught's good but not worth the arguing. And my official vote is that his powers aren't defined enough and that he stays out of the League. I think if he were allowed people would just argue about him and push the limits of his power to too uber.

and less than a day now Tim.... and YER GOIN DOWN!

[JewishHobbit]

Meh I'm a juggy fanboy:(

Then just out of curiosity what was your opinion of Austen's last issue?

[Johnny Blaze]

Heh, interesting prologue LadyVader. :D :up:

[X]

I still say we should go back to my earlier statment


**** onslaught:p

Meh I'm a juggy fanboy:(

Juggernaut fanboy? I don't think there's such a thing. :o :D

Okay, normal Juggy was once taken over by an outside source. This being could use his potential to it's fullest, and he was punching holes through reality. No power uppage, just normal old Juggernaut being used to his full potential.

Juggernaut's shown tons of abilities in the past that weren't retconned, and shoulden't be at that, just more stuff he can do but either doesn't know how to or never developed them. Lack of motivation, he has enough as is, yadda yadda yadda. Juggernaut has always been badass, but really, him using his full potential, come on. He's got a forcefield that can stop Mjolnir dead in it's tracks, he's got massive, massive regeneration, complete and total invulnerability (Hulk pounding on his face does next to nothing, really doesn't matter how angry he is) and so on. Telepathy? **** telepathy, use your forcefield!

[Guyverjay]

Then just out of curiosity what was your opinion of Austen's last issue?


Haven't read it, in fact I haven't really read anything for the past couple of months, been busy as hell.

[JewishHobbit]

Haven't read it, in fact I haven't really read anything for the past couple of months, been busy as hell.

Ah, okay. Basically people's always riding Austen for the crap he's written but his last arc or two was good. I keep hearing mixed results in how he handled Juggy in the last arc an I was just curious about your opinion. For those who have read it I liked his sacrefice (and no he's not dead to anyeone who hasn't read it)

[X]

Ah, okay. Basically people's always riding Austen for the crap he's written but his last arc or two was good. I keep hearing mixed results in how he handled Juggy in the last arc an I was just curious about your opinion. For those who have read it I liked his sacrefice (and no he's not dead to anyeone who hasn't read it)

He jumped into some kind of vortex, right?

[XFanTim]

Well, we do have a comglomerate of The Juggernaut and Xavier, and The Juggernaut's beaten Magneto before, two times if you want to count Xavier Juggs What If appearance.
Yeah, and he didn't even have to use Xavier's powers. Just picked up Magneto's helmet and crunched it, and then Mags realized it was hopeless or something and left.

[X]

Yeah, and he didn't even have to use Xavier's powers. Just picked up Magneto's helmet and crunched it, and then Mags realized it was hopeless or something and left.

Heh, Magneto stressed his powers, trying to kill Juggernaut. Did nothing. And I was more talking about The Juggernaut's other win against him anyhow.

[JewishHobbit]

He jumped into some kind of vortex, right?

We learned that Juggy joined the X-Men at the will of Black Tom in order to infiltrate them, but while there he grew close to them and especially Sammy. So he was with the Brotherhood planning on betraying them to the X-Men when Sammy comes accross them. He dies at the hands of Black Tom thinking Juggy a bad guy. So in the end when Xorn is pulling the baddies into his star brain Juggy hangs on to keep some of them steady and gets sucked in as well. He did this so that "on the other side" sammy will know that he really was a hero. He sacreficed himself in guilt of what happened to Sammy. (Nocturne did as well) thought it was kinda cool.

[XFanTim]

He jumped into some kind of vortex, right?
Yeah, he went into that black hole thing in Xorn's head, along with Nocturne and a bunch of villains.

Of course, referring to the guy who's been running around X-Men lately as "Juggernaut" is a bit like calling Donald Blake "Thor", at least in terms of power levels.

[X]

That is pretty cool. :up: Thanks.

[JewishHobbit]

So he's powered down,... doesn't make him any less cool,... just a differant kinda cool.

[X]

So he's powered down,... doesn't make him any less cool,... just a differant kinda cool.

Meh, I woulden't mind seeing a badass scrapper that's not too strong, but some of the lame **** that's happened to him, feh. Ruined him a bit.

[X]

Just cause.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/spiderfan4eva/auntpet.jpg

[XFanTim]

and less than a day now Tim.... and YER GOIN DOWN!
Only because the battle takes place on the moon but you're commenting on it from earth, so what's down from your perspective is really up!

Yeah, how's that for trash talk! :D

My write-up probably won't be up until Friday night, though, cause I've got to meet with my advisor on Friday afternoon . . . meaning I'd better do some work between now and then so he doesn't think I'm a slacker.

The voting starts on Saturday, right? Is it Saturday morning, or midnight Friday night? (I'm talking Eastern time here.)

[Johnny Blaze]

Yeah, he went into that black hole thing in Xorn's head, along with Nocturne and a bunch of villains.
Wait, he got rid of Nocturne too?

I didn't think it possible, but I hate Austen even more now. :mad: :o :(


And yes, voting starts Saturday early afternoon.

[The Leaguer]

Saturday, noon-ish Eastern.