Dream Team League (Discussion)

[TheCorpulent1]

gahhhhhhhhhhh the crystal was never in Cains chest, banish that Onslaught crap from your mind dammit!!

For the record I for one don't believe that 100% of the power could be taken.
I agree with Guyver, which makes sense given that he's our resident Juggernaut fanboy. In the fight where Thor cuts Cain off from his direct line to Cyttorak using Mjolnir, Cain still seemed plenty tough. Thor was kicking his ass, but he had to work for it. It wasn't like Cain got cut off from Cyttorak and suddenly became a pussy. Even if Black Alice stole his power by diverting Cyttorak's powers from Cain to herself, my opinion is that Cain would still have somewhere around Hulk-level strength but drastically reduced durability, maybe somewhere around the Thing's level. He can still take a beating.

[Guyverjay]

Exactly even when D'spayre siphoned Juggys power in the Juggy one shot, Cain was still about to fight on as as a crimson skeleton.

Of course I don't believe you can MAKE Cytorrak just give you power. Siphon it from Juggy himself but not from Cytorrak. The Gem is not present (not in Cains chest dammit) so if Alice was stealing the power from cytorrak himself she'd automatically be above skyfather level. The whole thing never sat well with me hence why I voted the other way:o

[XFanTim]

With regard to the iron in the blood thing, yes, both Polaris and Magneto have interfered with the blood flow to people's brains in order to render them unable to move or mentally access their powers. It doesn't work to stop automatic powers, though (e.g., Bishop's energy absorption), only ones that have to be accessed conciously.

Personally, I think this is bull**** and they never should have been able to do that, but it has happened multiple times in the comics. When I had Polaris on my team (all last season), I never did the iron in the blood thing, just cause I thought it was lame.

[AnnoyingSilence]

i'm not doing "the iron in the blood" to stop thier powers. i'm just putting mimic to sleep from a distance

[XFanTim]

Can anyone give me an idea of the relative power levels of Manchester Black and Stryfe? I'd also like to know any more specifics about Maxima's power level (how hard was it for Superman to defeat her?), since I haven't really read anything with her.

Also, I'm still wondering whether or not I can use the Exiles crystal citadel as an information-gathering resource for Blink. She could use it to gather info on any reality in the Marvel multiverse. (Not relevant this week, since I'm not using her.)

[AnnoyingSilence]

Stryfe... Think X-man, without the tricks...

[Guyverjay]

Can anyone give me an idea of the relative power levels of Manchester Black and Stryfe? I'd also like to know any more specifics about Maxima's power level (how hard was it for Superman to defeat her?), since I haven't really read anything with her.)


She batted Supes around a bit but when he got serious he just backhanded her into unconciousness.

[Johnny Blaze]

Ok, so the consensus of the majority is that while Juggy's powers can be stolen or stopped, he would not be completely powerless.
Cool, I can live with that.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi...s/w/warstar.htm

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/chara...sp?fldAuto=1131

Geez this guy has no real bio on the web.... Nothing good anyway. How powerful is his strength, durability, and electric bolts? And what exactly do they mean by "cybernetic restructuring?"

Can anyone give me an idea of the relative power levels of Manchester Black and Stryfe? I'd also like to know any more specifics about Maxima's power level (how hard was it for Superman to defeat her?), since I haven't really read anything with her.

Also, I'm still wondering whether or not I can use the Exiles crystal citadel as an information-gathering resource for Blink. She could use it to gather info on any reality in the Marvel multiverse. (Not relevant this week, since I'm not using her.) Black and Stryfe are both massively powerful telekinetics and telepaths. I'd put Stryfe in Xavier's league, and Black, IIRC, once stopped the Martian Manhunter from probing Luthor's mind. So, that'd put him up there in the telepathy department as well.

As for the crystal fortress, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to use it. It is a resource after all.

[DBM]

Black and Stryfe are both massively powerful telekinetics and telepaths. I'd put Stryfe in Xavier's league, and Black, IIRC, once stopped the Martian Manhunter from probing Luthor's mind. So, that'd put him up there in the telepathy department as well.

As for the crystal fortress, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to use it. It is a resource after all.

Manchester Black is the baddest mother ****in' psionic around. He makes Jean Grey look like the little whiny ***** she is. He's the kinda of guy who'd give you a telepathic hallucination that he was ****ing your mom in your own bed and then when he lets you out of the hallucination you find out he really is ****ing her, but with a telekinetic billy club from a thousand miles away while simultaneously mind-****ing every girl you ever lusted after and making sure that they know he's better than you.

I have a total fictional man-crush on him.

If someone wants to see how to use him well, I suggest reading my battles from the first DTL season when I used him.
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-124042.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-125901.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-127606.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-129392.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-132624.html

[Johnny Blaze]

And here I thought you completely swept us to the wayside and didn't check up on us, DBM. :D

[TheCorpulent1]

And DBM returns to the DTL with a bang, ladies and gentlemen! No, sorry, a ****ing bang. :D

The Crystal Citadel seems fine to me. Heather's the only one I've seen actually use any of its resources, but it's not a huge logical leap to assume that Blink would've learned how to look stuff up too. And, given some of the realities they'll be visiting in Exiles, it seems like it'd have information on literally every reality ever shown in a Marvel comic book, maybe even the Ultimate one.

[DBM]

And here I thought you completely swept us to the wayside and didn't check up on us, DBM. :D

I pop in every couple of days and read up on things. :D Even if I don't have time to participate myself, I still enjoy reading the stuff.

[AnnoyingSilence]

As for the crystal fortress, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to use it. It is a resource after all.for the marvel universe

[AnnoyingSilence]

lol, check my title and avatar out:D

[XFanTim]

How powerful is his strength, durability, and electric bolts? And what exactly do they mean by "cybernetic restructuring?"
OK, here's what I know about Warstar: He's a member of the Shiar Imperial Guard, who appears to be a robot (although maybe he's some sort of robotic looking alien, I don't know.) He has two parts, B'nee and C'cll (a pun on some old TV show called Beany and Cecil or something like that, I'd never heard of it.) C'cll's the big one, and B'nee is the little one. They each have separate minds and can talk to each other. Normally, B'nee is attached to C'cll, and rides along on his back. But he can split off and do stuff on his own. (I assume "cybernetic restructuring" just refers to the fact that Warstar splits into the two separate robots.) I don't think they get any boost when they're put together, basically it's just C'cll doing everything. I'd guess he's about as strong and durable as, say, Colossus. (C'cll is also about Colossus sized, maybe slightly larger, whereas B'nee's built more like C-3PO.) B'nee's a lot weaker than C'cll, but I'd guess he's probably at least a few times as strong as a normal human. It'd probably take superstrength to destroy him, but not all that much super strength.

I don't remember them ever shooting electric bolts, although it's possible they can. The closest I remember is when the X-Men were fighting the Imperial Guard to determine the fate of Phoenix, and B'nee leaped off C'cll and caught the Beast by surprise. B'nee grabbed him and knocked him out with some sort of electric shock.

Oh, and they can fly.

Black and Stryfe are both massively powerful telekinetics and telepaths. I'd put Stryfe in Xavier's league, and Black, IIRC, once stopped the Martian Manhunter from probing Luthor's mind. So, that'd put him up there in the telepathy department as well.

As for the crystal fortress, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to use it. It is a resource after all.Sweet. :D

[XFanTim]

Manchester Black is the baddest mother ****in' psionic around. He makes Jean Grey look like the little whiny ***** she is. He's the kinda of guy who'd give you a telepathic hallucination that he was ****ing your mom in your own bed and then when he lets you out of the hallucination you find out he really is ****ing her, but with a telekinetic billy club from a thousand miles away while simultaneously mind-****ing every girl you ever lusted after and making sure that they know he's better than you.

I have a total fictional man-crush on him.

If someone wants to see how to use him well, I suggest reading my battles from the first DTL season when I used him.
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-124042.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-125901.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-127606.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-129392.html
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-132624.htmlThanks, I'll definitely check those out. :up:

[Johnny Blaze]

OK, here's what I know about Warstar: He's a member of the Shiar Imperial Guard, who appears to be a robot (although maybe he's some sort of robotic looking alien, I don't know.) He has two parts, B'nee and C'cll (a pun on some old TV show called Beany and Cecil or something like that, I'd never heard of it.) C'cll's the big one, and B'nee is the little one. They each have separate minds and can talk to each other. Normally, B'nee is attached to C'cll, and rides along on his back. But he can split off and do stuff on his own. (I assume "cybernetic restructuring" just refers to the fact that Warstar splits into the two separate robots.) I don't think they get any boost when they're put together, basically it's just C'cll doing everything. I'd guess he's about as strong and durable as, say, Colossus. (C'cll is also about Colossus sized, maybe slightly larger, whereas B'nee's built more like C-3PO.) B'nee's a lot weaker than C'cll, but I'd guess he's probably at least a few times as strong as a normal human. It'd probably take superstrength to destroy him, but not all that much super strength.

I don't remember them ever shooting electric bolts, although it's possible they can. The closest I remember is when the X-Men were fighting the Imperial Guard to determine the fate of Phoenix, and B'nee leaped off C'cll and caught the Beast by surprise. B'nee grabbed him and knocked him out with some sort of electric shock.

Oh, and they can fly.

Sweet. :D Well, if the big guy is comparable to Colossus then Warstar would be a MM.

[TheCorpulent1]

for the marvel universe
One could argue that, since the Marvel and DC universes have had multiple crossovers and the Crystal Citadel covers literally EVERY alternate reality ever shown, it might also include DC characters. One could argue that... if one wanted to be a douchebag.

[Union Jack]

I'm not going to be doing the DTL this time...

so i am quitting it...hopefully maybe someone will take up the team.

[Nightwing.]

sorry to see you going UJ.shame i couldnt convince you to stay but hopefully you'll keep checkin in and join again next season

[XFanTim]

One could argue that, since the Marvel and DC universes have had multiple crossovers and the Crystal Citadel covers literally EVERY alternate reality ever shown, it might also include DC characters. One could argue that... if one wanted to be a douchebag.
I wouldn't want to be a douchebag, so I'll restrict it to Marvel. ;)

Well, if the big guy is comparable to Colossus then Warstar would be a MM.Maybe someone else can confirm his strength level -- I'm really just guessing based on what I remember of the battles he was in.

If nobody else knows, I guess it makes sense to assume he's a medium and portray him as having an appropriate level of strength.

[Johnny Blaze]

Don't worry, even if someone tried to go the douchebag route, I'd tell them straight up that it'd be Marvel only.

I'm not going to be doing the DTL this time...

so i am quitting it...hopefully maybe someone will take up the team. Sorry to see you go, Jack. :(
You're one of the original 16, and I'd love to see you stay on. But, you must do what you feel is right, of course.
Hope you'll still keep up with the happenings League even though you're bowing out. :up:

[The Question]

Question: What's Dark Flash's powers? I/E, are they any different from Wally's, and if so, how?

[wiegeabo]

Question: What's Dark Flash's powers? I/E, are they any different from Wally's, and if so, how?


You mean Walter West?

[TheCorpulent1]

Question: What's Dark Flash's powers? I/E, are they any different from Wally's, and if so, how?
They're not different, just more advanced. Walter knows how to do everything with the Speed Force while Wally's still figuring out how to do a lot of stuff. If you've ever heard of Savitar, Walter's basically as good as Savitar with SF tricks, plus he's a lot faster than Savitar because of his direct connection to the Speed Force.

Oh, I just remembered, can you give me some information on General Glory? Is he as much of a Captain America clone as he sounds, or does he have some kind of differentiating features? I can't seem to find any decent bios online.

[The Question]

They're not different, just more advanced. Walter knows how to do everything with the Speed Force while Wally's still figuring out how to do a lot of stuff. If you've ever heard of Savitar, Walter's basically as good as Savitar with SF tricks, plus he's a lot faster than Savitar because of his direct connection to the Speed Force.

Thanks.

Oh, I just remembered, can you give me some information on General Glory? Is he as much of a Captain America clone as he sounds, or does he have some kind of differentiating features? I can't seem to find any decent bios online.


He's pretty much a Captain America clone. He was a soldier in WWII. When in the feild, his troop was hit by an experimental nerve gas the nazis were testing out. Everyone died but him. He had a vision of the statue of liberty. The statue told him to speak the words inscribed on the plack she holds. He did, and gained enhanced strength speed and agility. However, it isn't entirely known if his powers are magic based, or he was just halucinating and the gas simply activated recesive mutant genes in his body. Either way, he has low level super strength, speed and agility at about Captain America's level. However, he has been shown to have greater leaping ability.

[TheCorpulent1]

Thanks.

[rigel7soldiers]

Real quick, I'm not entirely clear on Inertia's powers. What exactly does stealing inertia entail?

[The Question]

From what I remember of Squadron Supreme, she can slow people down to a stop. And I think she can also throw that energy back at people. Like, she could absorb the force of Superman's punch and throw it back at him.

[rigel7soldiers]

Oh. So, like the Turtle, who I have. But better. Hm.

[rigel7soldiers]

Wait, where is the gem of Cytorakk on Cain's person? I can't hink of a single way to beat him that doesn't involve that or a lot of cement.

[primemover]

Inertia is a kinetic energy manipulator, she can steal, hold then give back kinetic energy. She was able to absorb a punch from Hyperion(Superman level) and redirect it to Power Princess, and the punch wasn't even directed at her.

Corp summed it up nicely as her being a DC speedster without the ability to move fast.

I am as confused as anybody to what, or where the Cytorrak crystal is, or even if it's near or inside Cain at all.

[The Question]

The Crystal is the physical manifestation of a primal god. The Juggernaut is the avatar of said god. All of the crystal's power has been transfered to Juggernaut, so he doesn't have to touch it. Hell, it's probably still in the cave where he found it.

[Tropico]

I remember that Cain brought the ruby to Black Tom so he could touch it as a birthday present. Black Tom got powered up, but it also cut Cain's power in half. I guess it's like the power of Shazam in that way.

[XFanTim]

Guyver and others have mentioned this, but just to reiterate the deal with Cain and the gem . . . .

When Cain touched the gem, it gave him his powers. It didn't get absorbed into his body or anything like that. Then, so far as I know, he kept it. At least, he let Black Tom touch it and get half his power at some point (like Trop said). But then he got the power back, and chucked the gem into space so no one else could touch it. So far as I know, it stayed in space from then on.

However, when Onslaught fought Cain, he ripped the gem out of Cain's chest, thereby depriving him of his powers. However, that's complete bull****, because (1) the gem was never in his chest, and (2) he didn't need to be in contact with the gem to have his powers. So chalk that up to a writing mistake.

At any rate, the only way to take away Cain's powers is with some seriously badass magic. Thor did it temporarily, but Cain was still super tough, just not 100% invulnerable. And then when his powers came back he healed completely. D'Spayre also sucked out Cain's power and ripped the flesh off his bones, but that still didn't stop him. (Maybe someone can post the pic of Juggernaut as a crimson skeleton.) Cain is pretty much physically unstoppable.

The way I'd try to beat him is by removal from the battlefield (teleportation or just find some way to send him into space). That's how Thor has dealt with Juggernaut, and that's how they beat Xavier Juggernaut in the "What If?". Although Cain can also be taken out by telepathy, but his helmet and skullcap protect him.

[TheCorpulent1]

If deprived of his magical power, he can also be bludgeoned into unconsciousness. Thor was doing pretty well against him until the 60 seconds on his hammer ran out.

Magical weapons are also pretty useful, since Cain's total invulnerability is magical in nature. Weapons that dispel magical barriers or cut through magic in general would naturally get around that and hurt him. Of course, the weapon would probably have to be in the hands of someone like Thor or the Hulk, since Cain's still pretty tough when he's not totally invulnerable.

[The Question]

Guys, just so you know, I'll post my write up tomorrow. As of right now, I'm creativly tapped out. I'll just watch Sam Raimi's Army of Darkness tomorrow to get a recharge.

[rigel7soldiers]

I was tapped, mostly due to my inability to counter Juggs, even if it was just Marko. I had this great thing with Zoom, that he saw all the enemies as Barry Allen... but It'll wait.

[Tropico]

You can't counter jugs?:o Can't say I blame ya, sometimes you DO get hypnotized.:D

[primemover]

Bah, shunting into another dimension, or tossing into space is for losers!!

[TheCorpulent1]

Totally. Kicking him in the nuts with magic boots is definitely the way to go. :up:

[primemover]

Hrm, I was just thinking along the lines of some serious scorn and ridicule until he collapses under the weight of his own increasing self doubt decreasing self worth, but that nut thing would work too.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well... so long as it's magic scorn.

[XFanTim]

Hrm, I was just thinking along the lines of some serious scorn and ridicule until he collapses under the weight of his own increasing self doubt decreasing self worth
That strategy actually works against Gladiator (since his powers are confidence based). :up:

[Guyverjay]

No it doesn't:o

[Tropico]

Just have him drawn by Liefield. When he sees that he has NO crotch compared to the women he should whimper away.

[XFanTim]

No it doesn't:o
I know, I was just kidding. (probably should have done a winky smiley instead of the thumbs up) :)

[Johnny Blaze]

Just have him drawn by Liefield. When he sees that he has NO crotch compared to the women he should whimper away.
That's both funny and sad at the same time. :(

[XFanTim]

I know I'm not using him this week but I was just wondering:

Is Maestro really allowed to give his characters weapons from the Future Imperfect trophy room, like Gil had him do in writeups last season? It's just that I thought the trophy room really belonged to Rick Jones -- or am I misremembering?

I mean, I guess I shouldn't question my teammates writeups, I just don't want to end up doing something later and have someone say it's not legit. I'd ask Gil about it myself, but she's not online now . . .

[XFanTim]

It's just that I thought the trophy room really belonged to Rick Jones -- or am I misremembering?
Although I guess Maestro knows where it was either way, since he went there during the story.

If it is legit, can someone list what weapons it contained that were still functional. (I remember that a bunch of the stuff was completely busted up.)

[wiegeabo]

I'd say no, but I'm in the minority group that thinks teams should not being able to use bases at all, be it for information or weapons. Just use the knowledge in your head and whatever is available on the battlefield during prep-time.

[XFanTim]

I guess it's not as relevant to me now . . .

(see transaction thread)

[XFanTim]

I'd say no, but I'm in the minority group that thinks teams should not being able to use bases at all, be it for information or weapons. Just use the knowledge in your head and whatever is available on the battlefield during prep-time.
Well the thing with Maestro is I'm not even sure it was really his base . . . more like just somewhere he new about. I mean, the X-Men getting stuff from the X-Mansion seems fine, but having them break into somewhere else and take stuff just because they know it's there seems questionable. But like I said, I may be misremembering Future Imperfect -- maybe it was actually the Maestro's stuff.

[wiegeabo]

No, I'm pretty sure it was in Jone's base.

[Guyverjay]

Its true everyone likes to call it the Maestros trophy room but it was indeed Ricks

[Gilrean]

When I picked up Maestro the other DTL guys that helped me choose him said the trophy room was his. It's the only reason I used stuff out of it.

[XFanTim]

Here's a discussion question for you all, just because I'm bored . . .

Other than yourself, which DTL owner do you think has the best team? You can use whatever criteria you want, but for me it means strong characters at every position, and good variety among your characters (i.e., covering all your bases).

I'll post my vote in a little bit, I'm still thinking.

[AnnoyingSilence]

i'll have to go with leaguer

silver surfer, fernus team up woul do it to anyone

[AnnoyingSilence]

You all know what? i've liked all the super man titles.. superman, adv. superman, action comics, but if he keeps acting like diana should die for killing Lord, i'm dropping

its literally getting on my nerves that they've made superman such a *****

[Guyverjay]

I don't like anybody elses team

[AnnoyingSilence]

that would had been my number two

[AnnoyingSilence]

X's team is either too exotic or he likes to keep secrets of his characters and reveal them during each battle. So no vote at all for him.

and during matchs, since he made solar so pumped up compaired to the way he WAS describing him... no vote from me.

[AnnoyingSilence]

regulations may apply

[Roughneck]

Well, if the big guy is comparable to Colossus then Warstar would be a MM.


But was he counted as one?

And C'cil is usually supposed to be 2 ffet or so, (the time he jumbed beast he appeared 5 or 6 feet) He canot fire electric Bolts but rather Conduct electirck shocks through his body (think Blank in Street Fighter 2) And the Cybernetic Restructuring is a robot Healing Factor. It isn't intantaneous but if you cur/ripped him open and ripped out some parts he would regrow the parts and resal the 'wound'

So was he counted as one?

[Roughneck]

Sorry to ask this again. When does voting start and end again?

[Roughneck]

I'm surprized that no one has any 1602 characters.

[Harlekin]

Sorry to ask this again. When does voting start and end again?
Voting starts on a saturday and ends on a monday.

[XFanTim]

With regard to my aforementioned discussion question, I'd probably have to go with Guyver. He's got a top-notch version of just about every kind of character I'd want. For magic he has Dr. Strange, for technology he has Brainiac 417, for hand-to-hand combat he has Doomsday, for Surferesque cosmic powers he's got Cosmic Spidey, for just about anything else he wants he has Kid Eternity. And to top it off he has some damn-near unbeatable regs like Zeitgeist.

That said, I'm of the opposite opinion of Guyver -- I like everyone's team. Well, not everyone's, but many of them. Reading over the Update thread I'm constantly amazed by the kinds of murderer's rows people have assembled.

[XFanTim]

Oh, and for the non-American-sports-inclined, "Murderer's Row" = Babe Ruth era Yankees.

And for the really non-American-sports-inclined, "Babe Ruth" = like Superman, but for baseball.

[TheCorpulent1]

And for the really non-American-sports-inclined, "Babe Ruth" = like Superman, but for baseball.
And potbellied...

[Roughneck]

Voting starts on a saturday and ends on a monday.


This is an official Appology to all of you. My Work Scheduel has just been Changed. I am now off of work on Sundays and Mondays. Therefore (For the time being) I have no Internet Access during those days.

So I am afraind that My Votes will be cast On Saturday (Technically Sunday morning) I will always hold off as late as I can, I am sorry but it is either this or not vote at all.

[Nightwing.]

hey no probs grand master of the lost souls.if it cant be helped then its no biggy(is this the right spelling?is this even a word?)

Nightwing
LOST SOUL (With honours due to recent DTL Trade with Roughneck)

[Roughneck]

And I just snagged magneto from you too.

[Nightwing.]

yeah i noticed.like i said in transactions.i got cosmic king which can do all eric can and more so its no big thing that i lost him.but i wouldnt have seen him go to a better dancin banana.

[TheCorpulent1]

Just to let everyone know, A French Gal doesn't really have a steady Internet connection at the moment. She apologizes for not being able to participate, but events are kind of beyond her control. I don't know how long that'll be the case.

[TheCorpulent1]

All right, I haven't even had my match this week, but I know that it'll be my last with Alan Scott. I love the character, but I just don't really fancy a GL for the DTL. I'm already dreading writing him.

Here's the twist: I don't have the time to research as much as I normally would right now and, frankly, after all the stuff I've gotta do for school, I don't really feel like thinking very much. So, in a controversial and unprecedented move, I turn to you, my peers, for help. Anybody know of a really good DC uber? I've got all of the basic points covered on my team already--speedster, magic users/defenders, strength, energy manipulation, telepathy protection, etc.--so I'm open to any DU with any kind of power set.

[Johnny Blaze]

There's always Andromeda.
She's pretty much a female Superman, save her only real weakness is red sun radiation; her lead weakness was taken away by Brainy's serum. She'd also have access to all of the Legion files & equipment (flight rings, omnicoms, transuits, telepathic earplugs, etc).

[TheCorpulent1]

Already got a Superman-level bruiser with energy manipulation in Thor. Actually, I've been wanting to try out Superman from the Titans Tomorrow arc for a while. I had him briefly but dropped him before the season started.

Hey, there's a thought. Any good DUs who combine telepathy/telekinesis and physical power? Excluding Martian Manhunter, Fernus, and Maxima, since they're taken, and white Martians, since I hate those buggers?

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, there's also...

Brainiac: high level telepathy & TK; a scientific & tech genius

Dr. Polaris: pretty much an insane Magneto; could be fun playing around with his split personalities

Firestorm (Fire Elemental): Molecular rearranger and can manipulate fire; access to the JLA files

The General: Top tier brawler that can regenerate from pretty much any injury; Eiling is also a highly intelligent and well trained military man

Metallo: physically able to go toe-to-toe with Supes; can absorb any metal or mechanical equipment that he touches; can reshape his body into a variety of things; has a kryptonite heart for when you fight a Kryptonian

Red Tornado: air elemental with the ability to manipulate the air (create mini or huge tornados, hurricane force winds, create solid air constructs such as walls and cages, create implosions of air, muck with flying characters. flight, etc)

Shift: Pretty much Metamorpho kicked up a notch

[Johnny Blaze]

Already got a Superman-level bruiser with energy manipulation in Thor. Actually, I've been wanting to try out Superman from the Titans Tomorrow arc for a while. I had him briefly but dropped him before the season started.

Hey, there's a thought. Any good DUs who combine telepathy/telekinesis and physical power? Excluding Martian Manhunter, Fernus, and Maxima, since they're taken, and white Martians, since I hate those buggers?
I know Brainiac 13 was physically able to fight Superman, but I am unsure if he's ever been seen using telepathy or TK.

[TheCorpulent1]

Isn't Brainiac 13 an android? I thought all of the android Brainiacs were stuck without telepathy and TK since they don't really have brains.

[Johnny Blaze]

Probably right

[primemover]

Pick up Samaritan from Astro City, basically a cross between Superman and Green Lantern. The speed, strength and durability of Supes with the tk/contruct powers like a Lantern, or any other telekinetic except that his tk is visable.

Then he comes with the added bonus of having a pocket dimension he and only he can go to whenever he wants(he can store stuff there), and he is completely unknown to every character in the DTL. He also has a Mother Box type computer that can interface with any computer on the planet and gather data from any wavelength(he uses it to find crimes in progress), has an implant that allows him to be in contact with this computer at all times.

No telepathy though, but the Honor Guard has psi-blockers for all it's members.

[TheCorpulent1]

He sounds really good, but I don't use anyone on my team that I haven't read about extensively. Otherwise I wind up with stuff like the Thena and Brainwave incidents, where both of my characters turned out to be higher levels than I thought because I'd had such limited exposure to them. I'm fairly sure I never used Thena very well, either. I've never picked up an Astro City comic, so I wouldn't know anything about Samaritan.

Why'd you drop him, anyway?

[The Leaguer]

Because he's powerless against every color except beige. He's trying to sabatoge your team. Don't fall for his tricks!

[primemover]

He sounds really good, but I don't use anyone on my team that I haven't read about extensively. Otherwise I wind up with stuff like the Thena and Brainwave incidents, where both of my characters turned out to be higher levels than I thought because I'd had such limited exposure to them. I'm fairly sure I never used Thena very well, either. I've never picked up an Astro City comic, so I wouldn't know anything about Samaritan.

Why'd you drop him, anyway?

Casualty of the merger with Trop, I found Malefic and we just decided to stick with him and Black Adam instead.

[Guyverjay]

You know I've forgotten what a legal line is again:o

If you have a DM do you still need a DR?

[wiegeabo]

I don't think so.

[AnnoyingSilence]

no. it was stated not too long ago

dm, mr, mr
dm, mr, dr
mm, mr, dr
mm, dr, dr

are all legal. Now if they'd come out with a version of MountJoy in the DC world...

[TheCorpulent1]

Casualty of the merger with Trop, I found Malefic and we just decided to stick with him and Black Adam instead.
Samaritan sounds a lot better than Black Adam. Oh well. I already know who I'm getting, I'm just trying to find out as much as I can about him by going through my back issues right now.

[LadyVader]

So are you getting Samaritan or not, because I might be interested in him. ;)

[TheCorpulent1]

Nope, he's all yours.

[LadyVader]

Thanks. :)
Drop Green Lightning DU F
Pick-up Samaritan DU
I'm gonna be reading Astro City like crazy these days. :)

this week my line-up changes to

Iron Man/ Dr Strange (What if) MU
Samaritan DU
Praetor Lemnos DM
Deadpool MR
Engineer DR F

[Johnny Blaze]

Wrong thread.

[primemover]

Samaritan sounds a lot better than Black Adam. Oh well. I already know who I'm getting, I'm just trying to find out as much as I can about him by going through my back issues right now.

Yeah, Black Adam is more established and more of a name which can help with some voters, and Black Adam has that supposed invulnerability to magicks, so . .

[primemover]

Thanks. :)
Drop Green Lightning DU F
Pick-up Samaritan DU
I'm gonna be reading Astro City like crazy these days. :)

this week my line-up changes to

Iron Man/ Dr Strange (What if) MU
Samaritan DU
Praetor Lemnos DM
Deadpool MR
Engineer DR F

Sweet! He was able to hold back a 300+ foot tsunami with his empyrean webbing, now THAT's a feat :)

[TheCorpulent1]

Aquaman cut a trench through a patch of the ocean like Moses with his hand. :p

[primemover]

Then he's left standing on dry land, NOW WHAT?!?

[primemover]

Nightwing, Union Jack, or whomever, can I get a bit of en explanation of Jean Grey's powers AS you have her? Is she phoneix, is she marvel girl??

[TheCorpulent1]

Then he's left standing on dry land, NOW WHAT?!?
Hey, shut up! :mad:

:(

[Union Jack]

Nightwing, Union Jack, or whomever, can I get a bit of en explanation of Jean Grey's powers AS you have her? Is she phoneix, is she marvel girl??


she is basically the most powerful version of her we can get...obviously not pheonix forve version as thats not allowed and deemed too uber.
But she is The best at TK and Telepathy...with only xavier to challenge her.

It's a shame we cannot get pheonix force version...there is silver surfer and cosmic spidey.....i don't see why we can't have pheonix....just do what we did with darkseid and tone her down a bit.

She wasn't mega mega powerful when it started to manifest...just when it took over her it became too powerful.

Plus i want to call her pheonix and not jean grey...everyone else has a codename...she's feeling left out...:(

[primemover]

Hey, shut up! :mad:

:(


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/DCFanboy.jpg

Always the right time for some pshackery!

[primemover]

Plus i want to call her pheonix and not jean grey...everyone else has a codename...she's feeling left out...:(

What's wrong with Marvel Girl?

[XFanTim]

she is basically the most powerful version of her we can get...obviously not pheonix forve version as thats not allowed and deemed too uber.
But she is The best at TK and Telepathy...with only xavier to challenge her.

It's a shame we cannot get pheonix force version...there is silver surfer and cosmic spidey.....i don't see why we can't have pheonix....just do what we did with darkseid and tone her down a bit.

She wasn't mega mega powerful when it started to manifest...just when it took over her it became too powerful.

Plus i want to call her pheonix and not jean grey...everyone else has a codename...she's feeling left out...:(
I could maybe see using the good Phoenix -- the one with mental blocks. Heck, she got beat by Magneto.

[Union Jack]

i don't want to de-power her....i want the best version of her i can get my hands on!

So..the mental blocks one is no good to me really...i'll just use her to her limits of now...she is,after all,the best minduser in MU really...i know charlesX is good...but he aint so great with the TK.

Oh...and Marvel girl....what ever was she thinking!!:D

[AnnoyingSilence]

Nightwing, Union Jack, or whomever, can I get a bit of en explanation of Jean Grey's powers AS you have her? Is she phoneix, is she marvel girl??Bringing people back alive after they've been busted into little diamond pieces, making you puke and poop yourself, over-powering no matter who you are with the pheonix force, transmutation...

[The Question]

Johnny Blaze, could you please give me some info on the following?:


Morg
The Gorgon
Gamora
Batman (One Million)

[Johnny Blaze]

Johnny Blaze, could you please give me some info on the following?:


Morg
The Gorgon
Gamora
Batman (One Million)
Well, you don't really need to know anything about the Gorgon since I am using Sorrow in this match. And I also switched Kang in for Morg.
Here's links for my starting lineup:

Kang: 1 (http://spider-bob.com/villains/marvel/Kang.htm); 2 (http://www.geocities.com/marvel_villains/kang/kang.html ); 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kang_the_Conqueror); Macrobots (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/macrobotskang.htm); Timespinner (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/spdmrobk.htm); Growing Man (http://immortalthor.net/bio-growingman.html)
Parasite (Rudy Jones/Dr. Freeman): 1 (http://spider-bob.com/villains/dc/Parasite.htm); 2 (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/who/who-intro.php?topic=parasite); 3 (http://classicmarvel.com/cast/parasite.htm); 4 (http://www.unstable.com/whoswho/parasite.htm); 5 (http://thedoug.superman.ws/Villains/parasite.html); 6 (http://www.supermansupersite.com/parasite.html); 7 (http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=parasite); 8 (http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Bizzaro.asp?UniqueId=195 )
Johnny Sorrow: 1 (http://spider-bob.com/villains/dc/JohnnySorrow.htm); 2 (http://www.dcuguide.com/profile.php?name=johnnysorrow )
Gamora: 1 (http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/gamora.htm); 2 (http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/profiles/gamora.html); 3 (http://www.corvusonline.net/thanos/gamora.html); 4 (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2855/gamora.html)
Batman (1 Million): 1 (http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing24/hoj.shtml); 2 (http://www.geocities.com/jason.kirk/dc1m_batman.html )

Now, if you'd be so kind as to tell me who you will be starting? :D

[X]

Enough Parasite links there, Blaze? :D

[wiegeabo]

He has a man crush on Parasite.

[The Question]

Well, you don't really need to know anything about the Gorgon since I am using Sorrow in this match. And I also switched Kang in for Morg.
Here's links for my starting lineup:

Kang: 1 (http://spider-bob.com/villains/marvel/Kang.htm); 2 (http://www.geocities.com/marvel_villains/kang/kang.html); 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kang_the_Conqueror); Macrobots (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/macrobotskang.htm); Timespinner (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/spdmrobk.htm); Growing Man (http://immortalthor.net/bio-growingman.html)
Parasite (Rudy Jones/Dr. Freeman): 1 (http://spider-bob.com/villains/dc/Parasite.htm); 2 (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/who/who-intro.php?topic=parasite); 3 (http://classicmarvel.com/cast/parasite.htm); 4 (http://www.unstable.com/whoswho/parasite.htm); 5 (http://thedoug.superman.ws/Villains/parasite.html); 6 (http://www.supermansupersite.com/parasite.html); 7 (http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=parasite); 8 (http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Bizzaro.asp?UniqueId=195)
Johnny Sorrow: 1 (http://spider-bob.com/villains/dc/JohnnySorrow.htm); 2 (http://www.dcuguide.com/profile.php?name=johnnysorrow)
Gamora: 1 (http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/gamora.htm); 2 (http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/profiles/gamora.html); 3 (http://www.corvusonline.net/thanos/gamora.html); 4 (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2855/gamora.html)
Batman (1 Million): 1 (http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing24/hoj.shtml); 2 (http://www.geocities.com/jason.kirk/dc1m_batman.html)

Now, if you'd be so kind as to tell me who you will be starting? :D



Nightshade (DU) (F)

Quasar (Operation Galactic Storm) (MU) or Hyperion, haven't decided yet.

Jenny Sparks (DM) (F)

General Glory (DR)

Peacemaker (DR)


Question: Would Parasite be able to absorb energy constructs like Green Lantern's?

[wiegeabo]

Question: Would Parasite be able to absorb energy constructs like Green Lantern's?


Probably. And even if he couldn't feed of the contstruct energy directly, he could probably pull from the kinetic energy of the construct's movement.


Although, the GL in the know would probably make a very...cold...construct. One that absorbs energy rather then emitting it.

[The Question]

Cool. Works for me.

[Johnny Blaze]

Nightshade (DU) (F)

Quasar (Operation Galactic Storm) (MU) or Hyperion, haven't decided yet.

Jenny Sparks (DM) (F)

General Glory (DR)

Peacemaker (DR)


Question: Would Parasite be able to absorb energy constructs like Green Lantern's?
Well, you have 6 hours and 17 minutes before the deadline hits to decide.

And, actually, I think I'll make one more move and switch Rudy out for Savitar.

Savitar: 1 (http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/savitar.html ); 2 (http://members.tripod.com/aeia/jesse/foes.html ); 3 (http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=savitar )

So, my lineup should be:

The Blazing Horde
Kang the Conqueror
Savitar
Johnny Sorrow
Gamora
Batman (1 Million)

Oh, and if you could post links to your characters, I'd appreciate it. :up:

[Johnny Blaze]

Enough Parasite links there, Blaze? :D
Yeah, it's funny...all my other characters only had a handful of links that I could find, but Rudy had an assload of them. There were more than 8 that I found, but I figured enough was enough. :o

He has a man crush on Parasite. You swore you wouldn't tell! :mad:

:(

[TheCorpulent1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/DCFanboy.jpg

Always the right time for some pshackery!
I DO like Aquaman; what of it? :mad: He just got pwned by a stupid OMAC, though. His little bastard son had to save him. :(

[wiegeabo]

You swore you wouldn't tell! :mad:

:(


Hey, it's ok. We're all the same person anyway.

[Johnny Blaze]

Actually, we aren't. I broke off from The Leaguer a long time ago. :p

[The Question]

Here's my final list:


Nightshade (DU) (F)

Quasar (Operation Galactic Storm)

Jenny Sparks (DM) (F)

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/j/jsparks.htm

General Glory (DR)

Peacemaker (DR)


I couyldn't find any decent bios for the others (at least ones that gave a good telling of their powers). But I can tell you about them.


Nightshade: The exiled princess of a shadowy dimension, Nightshade posseses the ability to manipulate shadow energy for a variaty of effects. She can use the shadows to create energy constructs, much like green lantern. She also posseses the ability to teleport, and can become intangible for breif periods. She is a highly skilled hand to hand combatant.

General Glory: Was a soldier in WWII. Was hit by experimental nerve gass. Had a vision of the statue of liberty, who told him to recite the words on the plack she carried. He did, and gained superhuman abilities. He posseses low level superhuman strength, speed, and agility comparable to that of Captain America. He has, however, displayed greater leaping ability.

Peacemaker: The son of a nazi soldier, Peacemaker is an american special ops soldier and a complete psychopath. He uses extreme violence and sometimes hears voices of those his father killed. He carries a sword, a high power gun, wears a jet pack, and his helmet gives him specialo visual displays. He is a very skilled hand to hand combatant.

Quasar: Pretty much the same as 616 Quasar. Has powers pretty much the same as Green Lantern. But this Quasar is much more battle savy and a tad emotionaly hardened.

[TheCorpulent1]

Here's a decent Nightshade bio. It's the one I used when I was researching for last week.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightshade_(comics)

[AnnoyingSilence]

I DO like Aquaman; what of it? :mad: He just got pwned by a stupid OMAC, though. His little bastard son had to save him. :(Who couldn't "pwn" aqua-hoe?

[TheCorpulent1]

Who couldn't "pwn" aqua-hoe?
You. :o

[AnnoyingSilence]

let me take 2 seconds to rip this page and pwn the **** out of everyone on it.:up:

most AM, the worst title there is:up:, and thats a fact

[TheCorpulent1]

"Most AM"? You're going into that weird AS-world logic that I can't follow.

[primemover]

I think with that saying he just awoke a sleeper cell agent inbedded within the DTL . . . now the question is . . WHO IS IT?!?

[TheCorpulent1]

It's Harlekin. It's gotta be. I've always had my suspicions about that guy... Plus, you know what they say: "Never trust a Netherlanderer." I'm sure someone, somewhere, says that.

[AnnoyingSilence]

"Most AM"? You're going into that weird AS-world logic that I can't follow.most, as in more than 75% of all of AM's stories... how hard is that to understand?

[TheCorpulent1]

You've read more than 75% of Aquaman's stories? You sure keep up with a guy you supposedly don't like. :confused:

[primemover]

most, as in more than 75% of all of AM's stories... how hard is that to understand?

Apparently 'really' hard.

[AnnoyingSilence]

You've read more than 75% of Aquaman's stories? You sure keep up with a guy you supposedly don't like. :confused:just trying to get a good view of all aspects of both universes.

just like collecting silver surfer and captian marvel vol. 3 or 4(can't remember), i'm trying to understand the cosmic part of marvel better. after that, i'm going for magic(any recommendations?).

[Johnny Blaze]

Other than collecting the old Dr. Stange series, get the Dr. Fate mini that came out a year or so back. It was only five issues, but they were good ones. :up:

[XFanTim]

Old Dr. Strange's have been collected in an "Essential" book (maybe multiple volumes, I can't remember), so you can get a lot for cheap.

As an added bonus, you can color them however you want. :up: :D

[AnnoyingSilence]

arighty:up: guy at the comic shop said strange, so its unanimous(how do you spell that?), strange is the definite, and fate since its only proper

[TheCorpulent1]

Just don't get the recent Strange mini-series. It was crappy crap.

[Johnny Blaze]

But, buy the new Defenders mini. It's wicked haadcore awesome. :up:

[Nightwing.]

Nightshade (DU) (F)

Quasar (Operation Galactic Storm) (MU) or Hyperion, haven't decided yet.

Jenny Sparks (DM) (F)

General Glory (DR)

Peacemaker (DR)


Question: Would Parasite be able to absorb energy constructs like Green Lantern's?

isnt this an illegal line up folks?i thought you couldnt have two regs from the same universe if they were the same as the Medium's universe.eg

DM and 2 DR's as above.

i thought it could only be

MM and 2 DR's
DM and 2 MR's
MM and 1 DR and 1 MR
DM and 1 DR and 1 MR

correct me if im wrong i just thought thats how it worked

[wiegeabo]

i believe you're right. At least one DM/DR has to be from a different universe than the others.

[TheCorpulent1]

But, buy the new Defenders mini. It's wicked haadcore awesome. :up:
It so totally is. It doesn't show any of the Defenders very favorably, but it's high-larious! Plus, it's an extra pleasure to me to see the Silver Surfer "finding himself" among a bunch of beach bums in California. :D

[Nightwing.]

so would question need to edit their line up or would they default to last weeks leagl line up?

[Guyverjay]

It so totally is. It doesn't show any of the Defenders very favorably, but it's high-larious! Plus, it's an extra pleasure to me to see the Silver Surfer "finding himself" among a bunch of beach bums in California. :D


Indeed, Dormmamu is a funny guy

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah. Meanwhile, I found it pretty funny that Umar and the Hulk ****ed like rabbits in the last issue.

[Johnny Blaze]

Yeah, good eye Nightwing; I totally missed that. :o
Since it was caught before the threads came up for the week, Question will have to switch one of his characters out to make the lineup a legal one.
Week 3 will be put off until later this evening.

[Nightwing.]

yeah well i just wanted to check. thought for a second then i wouldnt need a DM to use cap a and wolverine together.guess i do.

quick question what time are you posting the threads?

[Johnny Blaze]

Whenever I'm on later and Question has made the appropriate changes to his lineup to make it legal; I'm on no set time table. :up:

[The Question]

Sorry. My mistake.


Nightshade (DU) (F)

Quasar (Operation Galactic Storm)

Jenny Sparks (DM) (F)

Peacemaker (DR)

Nighthawk (MR)

[rigel7soldiers]

..When did Sarge get banned? Are we still going on without him or do we have a spot to fill..?

[AnnoyingSilence]

hes temperarily banned from what i understand. its just like getting suspeneded from the dtl, you lose those weeks, but its still your team

[punishermax]

On the member list it says he's banned. Not sure if its temp or permanent.

[rigel7soldiers]

Where his title would be, it says "Banned User..."

No mention of probation at all.

[AnnoyingSilence]

thats all it said when i was banned

[The Question]

No, it said "probationary ban, be back in a few days".

[AnnoyingSilence]

well, i guess hes gone

[AnnoyingSilence]

o, i just seen this again

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/jusreal/ssss.gif

who has the dark flash anyway?

[X]

o, i just seen this again

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/jusreal/ssss.gif

who has the dark flash anyway?

Corp...

[AnnoyingSilence]

i think that was the first avatar i made:up:

[AnnoyingSilence]

sooooo, we gonna have a match this week?

[The Question]

I have one question about Johnny Sorrow. I know that he's not really in this universe or the universe he was transported to back in the 40s. But could he be trapped in a third, seperate universe?

[Johnny Blaze]

I don't know. Never really seen anyone try and do that to him before. In theory, I would imagine he could be, but how long it would take him to shift back to the prime reality I do not know; could be days, could be minutes. I guess it would all depend on the state he is in when he is stranded.

[The Question]

Oohh. I have an idea now.

[Nightwing.]

can i just ask something. after reading tims writeup i noticed he summoned a mage by the name of Kent Nelson. now that version of Fate belongs to us and he ended up taking someone out. even if Fate wasnt taken can he do that?i mean can he add a sixth player from outside his own characters to intervene and actually take people out?i mean i know you can have them in passing or in the background but to actually attack and for him to be taken by another team, surely thats some form of cheating.i aint wanting anyone banning or owt just trying to get an understanding on the matter

[AnnoyingSilence]

its his write-up, that would get him banned, just a lose if people don't like it, but he doesn't have an opponent this week, so hes good.

you said he summoned him... kinda makes it legal... but kinda makes it illegal...

its a hard call... i'd have to say... illegal by seventh person.
Although it would be legal because people can summon different characters(even if it is an elf, its a character) through magic to assisst them

[Union Jack]

but they shouldn't be ableto summon someone elses character.

they can have them in the background,but not effecting the current play.

to summon elves or whatever is fine..but to summon another persons character shouldnt be allowed.
What if we had our dr.fate in the game of play at the time..he cannot use our person as well as us using him.

Basically you shouldn't be able to summon another superhero style character,especially not one that someone currently owns.

I'm not looking for any bannings or suspensions at all...just want to make sure no one does it again.

[TheCorpulent1]

There's no violation in Tim's write-up. He was using Kid Eternity's power in a perfectly legal way through Paragon. That'd be like suspending Paragon for using super-strength and heat vision if he were near enough to Superman.

[Union Jack]

no cos paragon isnt bringing in another character.,just being like mimic and copying powers thats fine...synch does it too in gen X .fate is for us to use...not for someone else to use...unless he/she is the opponent and they wrote it into the versus amtch.

he brought in someone elses character...thats not like doom using doombots or multiple man using his dupes...thats taking someone elses character.

I know it makes no bearing on his game as he has already won,but it shouldnt be allowed.

[TheCorpulent1]

Kent Nelson is a legal character for Paragon to use as far as I'm concerned. Kid Eternity can summon anyone, so Paragon's using his power to summon Kent is exactly the same as Mimic or Synch using other people's powers; if they could absorb Kid Eternity's power, it'd work in exactly the same way for them. The fact that Paragon is using him like Kid Eternity would doesn't affect your use of Kent Nelson in any way, shape, or form, so I don't see what the problem is. It's not like Tim can pop into your matches now and contradict you on what you're using Kent for because he summoned him once, using someone else's power. There's no problem with it.

[Union Jack]

i agree with the paragon thing..he is just using his powers.

If kid eternity can summon anyone it really shouldnt be someone elses character.
i see what your saying and all...but if he can do that why can't i have say fate conjure up some more heroes...he can do it so whats the difference?

Or even say superman if in trouble can call in his earpiece for JLA backup..they can do it in the comics so there is no difference.

All i'm saying is ..
A/surely a 6th character is not allowed unless a dupe or robot/doombot type.(if he can call on anyone why not call upon two of the mightiest uber allowed?)
B/You shouldn't be able to use someone else's character.

[Guyverjay]

Kid eternitys power is to summon people to aid him, thats it. It doesn't matter who is on what team, thats is his ability and since it really doesn't effect you in any way I think you're just being petty about the whole thing. No offence

http://pc59te.dte.uma.es/cdb/series/vertigo/kideternity.htm

[Union Jack]

it's not a case of being petty at all.

If his power is to summon people,surely he would be too uber if summoningan uber..which ergo make that team have 3 uber on hand at all time really...cos in all effect they aint gonna summon a regular to do somethimg when an uber does it better.

It does seem to me though that kid eternity should not be allowed.

But if he is and everyone else is happy with it....then fine.

If the runners and rule maker are happy with his ability to conjure up juggernaut or superman at the drop of a hat then ok....just seemes a bit much.


one thing...is that ALL kid eternity does..and what ranking is he??
if all he can do is conjure someone up like dr.fate..and he is ranked uber,and he has no other powers....then i will recind what i said and be perfectly fine.
cos thats just like the boss sending out the grunts to do his work...thats not a problem!

[TheCorpulent1]

All i'm saying is ..
A/surely a 6th character is not allowed unless a dupe or robot/doombot type.(if he can call on anyone why not call upon two of the mightiest uber allowed?)
B/You shouldn't be able to use someone else's character.
A: Normally, that seems to be the case. Kid Eternity's a special case, however, since summoning people is his single, solitary power. I'm sure that at some point Guyver, being Guyver, will use him to summon a really, really powerful uber, too. But JB declared the character legal and that's how his power works, so we all just have to deal with it.

B: I'm sure the characters don't really like being summoned from wherever to assist Kid Eternity in the comics, but there it is. Again, it doesn't affect you in any way whatsoever. Nothing you do with Fate will ever be hampered by Kid Eternity or Paragon's summoning of him. Furthermore, there's an alternate explanation in the comics that Kid Eternity's power is not really to summon the people he does, but rather to summon demons who affect the likeness and powers of those people. So if it makes you feel any better, just consider the Dr. Fate Tim used a demon with an uncanny resemblance to Kent Nelson.

[Union Jack]

ah,right i wish i read that before i posted corp!!

so is he an uber then?

like i said above if he is an uber and all he does is call forth a n uber then i don';t have a problem with him.

in fact if that is the case i say well done to whoever for finding such a character.

it mean the full legal spectrum is available at hand to deal with whatever problem is at hand.which is clever!

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, he's an uber. There are some profiles that say he has other powers, but he was admitted into the DTL this season under the idea that he's a perfectly normal human being with all of the perfectly normal human weaknesses, and his ONLY power is to summon anyone from wherever.

[Union Jack]

ah right just went to see....he is ranked uber.

In that case....it is a strange loop hole in the system...

but i take back what i said....if thats all he is then fine...no problem with it!

all i saw initially was mine and NW's man being used on another team...but if that all he does fine...


if say he gets killed in battle does the guy brought forth dissapear abck from whence he came?

[Guyverjay]

it's not a case of being petty at all.

If his power is to summon people,surely he would be too uber if summoningan uber..which ergo make that team have 3 uber on hand at all time really...cos in all effect they aint gonna summon a regular to do somethimg when an uber does it better.

Kid Eternity summons a person to do his fighting for him, while he is technically an uber himself has no offensive abilties to allow him fight one. So it isn't like having 3 ubers at all

It does seem to me though that kid eternity should not be allowed.

But if he is and everyone else is happy with it....then fine.

If the runners and rule maker are happy with his ability to conjure up juggernaut or superman at the drop of a hat then ok....just seemes a bit much

He can only summon DC characters

one thing...is that ALL kid eternity does..and what ranking is he??
if all he can do is conjure someone up like dr.fate..and he is ranked uber,and he has no other powers....then i will recind what i said and be perfectly fine.
cos thats just like the boss sending out the grunts to do his work...thats not a problem!

He's ranked Uber, you could have checked the update thread

[Union Jack]

can he pull any guy out then marvel and DC or just ones from his own universe?

[TheCorpulent1]

Just DC.
if say he gets killed in battle does the guy brought forth dissapear abck from whence he came?
It seems logical, although when he died in the comics, Mordru had already killed all of his protectors before he got to him.

[Union Jack]

He's ranked Uber, you could have checked the update thread


yeah,yeah,yeah guyverjay..i have done that already...that the thing with talkingon message boards...the delay in conversations.

I have read all i needed.

sorry if it seemed like i was being a git!!

I get it all now.

though where the heck did you find him from...DC has some hellishly obscure characters!

[Guyverjay]

He was in JSA #1

His pre crsis counterpart was related to Captain Marvel Junior, the post crisis version was a bit more twisted (thank you grant Morrison) and was sexually abused by his own father:o

[TheCorpulent1]

He was in the first issue of JSA. A sacrificial lamb to show how badass Mordru was supposed to be, basically. He also had a Vertigo series and a much earlier series in the Golden Age. I think he's also Captain Marvel Jr.'s long-lost brother.

[Union Jack]

cool.
again sorry for jumping the gun a bit....tend to be a bit hot headed after a night on the beer!!

[Guyverjay]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1817/k115ty.jpg

I sharp 180 from the happy go lucky pre crisis kid

[TheCorpulent1]

Hey, Guyver, is Kid Eternity actually allowed to summon anyone from the DC universe, or just heroes?

[Guyverjay]

Anyone I imagine, as you said they are technically not the real deal but demons with the same appearance,memories and powers. The demons themselves don't even know they are fakes. They have to follow kids orders regardless of who they are, even Jack the ripper called Kid "Father".

[Union Jack]

cool....though in the pic just shown the art wasnt to my taste...looks messy,arty but messy.
was it his own title he had...has he come into contact with say constantine..he deals with demons too right?

[Union Jack]

also in that case it wasn't actually fate summoned,just a real good copying demon.

can kid E summon say superman and paragon copy his abilites too?

can paragon copy kid eternities power too and summon someone himself?
or would that not be allowed?

[Guyverjay]

I've only read the Grant morrison mini series, the second seies I have one issue but its just plain confusing to read. Maybe I'm just stupid but I didn't understand any of it

[TheCorpulent1]

There's a very arguable point about Paragon copying Kid Eternity's power to begin with, but I'm sure Guyver already noticed it and I wouldn't want to give anything away in case he has another match against Tim where he's unsuspended and can argue.
Anyone I imagine, as you said they are technically not the real deal but demons with the same appearance,memories and powers. The demons themselves don't even know they are fakes. They have to follow kids orders regardless of who they are, even Jack the ripper called Kid "Father".
Yeah, I read that his modern incarnation didn't have any restrictions. I guess there's no Master Man in the Vertigo series, either, right?

[Guyverjay]

also in that case it wasn't actually fate summoned,just a real good copying demon.

can kid E summon say superman and paragon copy his abilites too?

can paragon copy kid eternities power too and summon someone himself?
or would that not be allowed?

He wouldn't be able to summon pre crisis people and while I don't agree with Tims paragon copying of eternitys magic power (bestowed by the lords of chaos). He wrote it so you just have to judge for yourself

[TheCorpulent1]

It seems to me that he shouldn't be able to copy any powers of the people Kid Eternity summons, either, since they're demons with (presumably) magically bestowed powers.

[Guyverjay]

There's a very arguable point about Paragon copying Kid Eternity's power to begin with, but I'm sure Guyver already noticed it and I wouldn't want to give anything away in case he has another match against Tim where he's unsuspended and can argue.

Yeah, I read that his modern incarnation didn't have any restrictions. I guess there's no Master Man in the Vertigo series, either, right?


In the issues I've read Master man hasn't made an appearance

[TheCorpulent1]

I may have to give those Kid Eternity issues a read myself. I like anything that has the Lords of Chaos and Order in it.

[Nightwing.]

just to add.i sounds abit sussed with the whole kid eternity thing.i know its kid eternity's only power but surely paragon copying it plus some is abit silly.i mean kid eternity summons one guy that makes it 6 in a battle then paragon summons someone even more powerful thats 7 in a battle. and 4 of em are ubers. thats just too much in my opinion

[TheCorpulent1]

Guyver brought up a good point in that Kid Eternity's not an uber himself, though. Using his power to summon one uber, you'd actually end up with 3 regulars, 1 middleweight, and 2 ubers. Kid Eternity's not even a good regular, since I don't think he can fight very well or anything, and the rules for duping/summoning regs at a normal human's level (i.e. cannon fodder) is about a dozen, according to JB.

[Union Jack]

so here's a good question...can paragon copy his abilities and bring forth more ubers?
and can he then keep that uber on and change his powerd to someone else?

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd say no. The demons imitating ubers are tied to Kid Eternity's power. If Paragon switches his powers and loses Kid Eternity's, the other uber should go away.

Plus, as Guyver mentioned, Paragon's copying power doesn't work on magic, so he shouldn't have been able to copy Kid Eternity's ability in the first place.

[Nightwing.]

i mean another thing is say he summoned cosmic spider with kid eternity and then paragon summoned silver surfer, paragon would then take silver surfers power and increase it more as thats his ability but then surely he' be pushing the uber bar too far. and not only do we have four characters to tackle three are cosmic powered beings one of which is almost at galactus level.surely there has to be a line drawn at who he can summon.eg he shouldnt be allowed to summon characters owned by other teams. and he shouldnt be able to do a double summon with paragon also.

[TheCorpulent1]

i mean another thing is say he summoned cosmic spider with kid eternity and then paragon summoned silver surfer, paragon would then take silver surfers power and increase it more as thats his ability but then surely he' be pushing the uber bar too far. and not only do we have four characters to tackle three are cosmic powered beings one of which is almost at galactus level.surely there has to be a line drawn at who he can summon.eg he shouldnt be allowed to summon characters owned by other teams. and he shouldnt be able to do a double summon with paragon also.
I don't understand what prohibiting people from summoning characters owned by other teams would solve in that case. If Leaguer dropped the Silver Surfer, he'd still be every bit as powerful. What does the fact that he's owned by another team at the time have to do with anything? :confused:

[AnnoyingSilence]

if you can summon characters, you can. if you can't, you can't. wether or not the character is owned by another team doesn't make a difference. the only way i see that making a difference is by summoning Silver Surfer and your already Fighting Silver Surfer.

the question is wether we allow it. it is 6 total characters after all... its a hard call

i say allow it:up: very crafty

[Guyverjay]

i mean another thing is say he summoned cosmic spider with kid eternity and then paragon summoned silver surfer, paragon would then take silver surfers power and increase it more as thats his ability but then surely he' be pushing the uber bar too far. and not only do we have four characters to tackle three are cosmic powered beings one of which is almost at galactus level.surely there has to be a line drawn at who he can summon.eg he shouldnt be allowed to summon characters owned by other teams. and he shouldnt be able to do a double summon with paragon also.


I don't understand what the hell is going on??

Kid Eternity is on MY team

Paragon is on TIMS team


So how is any of this stufff even relevent?

[Nightwing.]

im just confused.and seen as tim couldnt have paragon copy kid eternities power due to its magic base then im just gonna try to forget i even brought it up to start with.

sorry

[TheCorpulent1]

if you can summon characters, you can. if you can't, you can't. wether or not the character is owned by another team doesn't make a difference. the only way i see that making a difference is by summoning Silver Surfer and your already Fighting Silver Surfer.

the question is wether we allow it. it is 6 total characters after all... its a hard call

i say allow it:up: very crafty
It's already been allowed. JB's set up the parameters for duping, which is the same as summoning, basically. A maximum of 1 uber, 1 middleweight, 2 high-level regulars, or a dozen low-level regulars per team. If Kid Eternity summons an uber, that's it, no more summoning or duping for the team unless Kid Eternity gets rid of that summon.

I don't really see a problem with summoning the Surfer to fight the Surfer, either. The summons aren't really the people they appear to be, they're demons who flawlessly mimic the appearance and powers of the person. But that's a non-issue anyway, since Kid Eternity can't summon the Surfer, since the Surfer's Marvel.

[Union Jack]

heh we still on this subject!

I'm okay with it now its all explained...he has possibly the best uber in the whole tournament!!

cos he can have anyone elses uber!

clever stuff.

paragon can't imitate magic...thats worth remembering!! :)

[AnnoyingSilence]

I don't really see a problem with summoning the Surfer to fight the Surfer, either. The summons aren't really the people they appear to be, they're demons who flawlessly mimic the appearance and powers of the person. But that's a non-issue anyway, since Kid Eternity can't summon the Surfer, since the Surfer's Marvel.ok

not that it matters, but if ANYONE summons SS they're not getting my vote. to summon someone of his calibur is ridiculous. same goes for summoning someone who your already fighting

situations may apply, ofcourse

how long does it take to summon someone anyway? the long the stronger?

[Nightwing.]

yeah good question.do they just appear straight away or does it require a focus that could be broken with a swift punch?

[Union Jack]

heat vision to the head seems a good option!!

[TheCorpulent1]

Characters are summoned instantly, but Kid Eternity has to say the word "eternity" to make them appear. Mordru killed the people he'd already summoned, then killed Kid Eternity himself while Kid Eternity was in the middle of saying "eternity."

[Nightwing.]

so if cap a flung his shield before he said eternity then he wouldnt summon?does he have to say who hes summoning or is it totally random and against his control?

[Union Jack]

or you could be real cruel and have say wolverine just break his jaw!!!

can't say much then!

[TheCorpulent1]

No, he thinks of whomever he wants to summon, says "eternity," and a demon in the form of that person appears. If Cap flung his shield and hit Kid Eternity in the middle of saying "eternity," Kid Eternity would probably pass out and not be able to complete his word, so no one would be summoned. Same principle as Billy Batson's turning into Captain Marvel, basically. He has to say the full word "Shazam" to call down the lightning and transform.
or you could be real cruel and have say wolverine just break his jaw!!!

can't say much then!
I'd go with cutting out his tongue, myself. Not only would he not be able to summon anyone, but you could also have great fun watching him try desperately, yelling "Eekerngiggy! Eekerngiggyyyy!!"

[AnnoyingSilence]

Characters are summoned instantly, but Kid Eternity has to say the word "eternity" to make them appear. Mordru killed the people he'd already summoned, then killed Kid Eternity himself while Kid Eternity was in the middle of saying "eternity."maybe me skipping a bunch of conv. kinda threw yall off, but i'm talking about dr. strange, dr. fate and all them. how long does it take for them to summon?

[Johnny Blaze]

FYI
Because the week started a day late, voting will not end until Tuesday afternoon sometime.
Lineups for the following week will still have to be in by the normal deadline though.

[primemover]

Does the word 'eternity' have to be audible to any degree, or does the act of moving the lips and 'thinking' of the word do the trick, kind of in a mystical way. What I am saying is what if a telepath or empath scrambled his language centers so he just mumbles something unintelligable, or if somebody teleported his voice box away, will whatever spirit or god that listens for this word still get it?

[The Question]

I'm not sure. Most "magic spells" are simply meditative mantras that help the sorcerer focuse, and highly skilled sorcerers don't need them to do magic. However, I think that if KE can't say it, then he can't activate his power.

[primemover]

What if the sound waves were stolen from him in some way, would that still count?

[The Question]

I don't know. It really depends om how his powers work. If it's just a magical incantation (like with Dr. Fate or Zatanna), then he wouldn't even need to say it if he was good enough. However, if saying the word is a trigger (like with Captain Marvel or Miracleman), then he would need to say the word. For his, it seems like saying the word is a trigger, so I guess taking the soundwaves out of his throat would work.

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not just a magical incantation. Kid Eternity's not a mage like Zatanna or Dr. Fate who's practiced and learned how to actually use magic. He's a teenager to whom the Lords of Chaos granted a power, the conditions of which state that he must recite the word "eternity" to summon someone. The way I understand it, his powers work exactly the same way as Captain Marvel's, and Marvel has to say "Shazam" audibly in order to call the lightning bolt, as far as I know.

AS: I don't know, Fate and Strange don't seem to summon people too often. In their cases, if they summoned someone, they'd need to convince the person to help them out since the person wouldn't actually be a demon that the Lords of Chaos have given them absolute control over. Fate, however, can summon your standard, mindlessly enraged, cannon fodder demons, I know that much. He did it pretty much instantaneously, if I recall correctly.

[Guyverjay]

All this discussion over my character:eek:

Of course bare in mind guys that kid woud no doubt someone a person to protect him before he entered into the fight. Its not like Billy Batson turns up for a skirmish he's obviously Captain Marvel when he arrives

[AnnoyingSilence]

all about your character? no. i could careless about yorus, i just want to know whats with the mages

[Guyverjay]

1)Its COULDN'T care less

2)I never said anyone cared, I merely noted the discussion over eternity

[AnnoyingSilence]

i'm sorry, but i meant what i said. i got "care less" wrong and that was all. i could care less about your team, but i still try to read everything i can about everyone

[Harlekin]

It's Harlekin. It's gotta be. I've always had my suspicions about that guy... Plus, you know what they say: "Never trust a Netherlanderer." I'm sure someone, somewhere, says that.
Hey! A man's internet is out, can't even defend himself, and I get this for all my trouble!



I'm so glad to be back... :D

[TheCorpulent1]

Me too. Now we can insult you to your face. :)

[Harlekin]

I guess...

[TheCorpulent1]

Not that we would (although we would). I'm just saying that we could now (and most likely will).


(Often.)

[XFanTim]

Plus, as Guyver mentioned, Paragon's copying power doesn't work on magic, so he shouldn't have been able to copy Kid Eternity's ability in the first place.
Since when does Paragon's copying not work on magic? I thought when that question was raised before, the concensus answer was he can copy magic (e.g., aren't Wonder Woman's powers magical in origin?) Now, I typically don't have him copy someone like Dr. Strange, whose powers are derived from the approval of higher forces (the Vishanti, etc.) who might not necessarily grant that approval to Paragon. And if I'd read up on Kid Eternity, I probably wouldn't have had Paragon copy him either -- but I didn't really bother doing much research this week, since with Guyver on suspension I just needed to do something that was better than nothing.

[TheCorpulent1]

Everyone's been telling me that Paragon can't copy tech or magic, so that's what I've been going on. Even so, you're still saying that he could copy things like Wonder Woman's powers, which are magical in nature but still very much physical in practice. Kid Eternity's only real "power" is to think up a person and say "eternity." The Lords of Chaos do the rest.

[Guyverjay]

The main problem I had (besides stealing magic controlled by omnipotent type forces) was my team act like morons, summoning Manchester Black when fighting Plastic man? Could that BE any more dumb?:D

[TheCorpulent1]

I doubt it, Chandler. ;)

[Union Jack]

do you think it could be worth posting an advert in the marvel and DC comics bits for some new dtl players?

it would be like an advert,onstead of asking a select few...if we put it out there in big letters we may get more blood.

what you think...i dint want to tread on anyones toes with the dtl thing but if we broaden the horizon then we may get a full rostor again.

[Harlekin]

With Sarge gone we've got one spot to fill. No need for recruitment threads.

[Union Jack]

thats why i didnt post it first.

so just my old team to fill....

[AnnoyingSilence]

one spot?

jimmy-san has yet to do anything, sarge is gone, uj's old team is still open... 3 spoots need to be filled and the thread could also be used for futur use of finding people.

ps. don't post the rules, it scares people

[Harlekin]

Jimmy-San has actually done a write-up in the first week.
The Sarge situation is quite odd. From the looks of it, he was banned for a thread he made a year ago in which he asked to be banned.
Okay, so we've got one/two (at most three) spots to fill.

I'm content with letting that stay for a while, yeah.

[XFanTim]

do you think it could be worth posting an advert in the marvel and DC comics bits for some new dtl players?

it would be like an advert,onstead of asking a select few...if we put it out there in big letters we may get more blood.

what you think...i dint want to tread on anyones toes with the dtl thing but if we broaden the horizon then we may get a full rostor again.
I think posting ads is (A) not all that effective at recruiting new people (at least it hasn't been when we've tried in the past), and (B) gets on people's nerves. So I'd vote "No" to that.

I think what works a lot better is just finding someone who we think would make a good DTLer and then PMing them personally. Then they at least feel obligated to respond, even if it's to say "no." With ad threads, people can just ignore them.

[XFanTim]

The main problem I had (besides stealing magic controlled by omnipotent type forces) was my team act like morons, summoning Manchester Black when fighting Plastic man? Could that BE any more dumb?:DYeah, that was lame, but I was using the "get it done as quickly as possible" approach. So I picked the first two eligible ubers I could think of (have to be dead, right?) and then gave me the better one.

Actually, figuring out who's dead and who's not is kind of a pain in the ass . . . I don't read that many DC titles, and with the temporary nature of death in comics, there's no way of knowing if a bio is up to date. It might be helpful for Guyver or someone to throw together a list of good dead DUs that the people fighting Kid Eternity can choose from for their writeups. Because it would suck for someone to lose just because they didn't know how to use their opponents character well. (Normally, I research my opponents characters, but researching all the dead people in the DCU seems a bit much.)

[Johnny Blaze]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...no advertising in other threads or starting recruitment threads in the other forums. We've got enough people who don't like the DTL as it is, because it "takes up space" in this forum. No need to pour gas on the fire.
If you know someone who might be interested in taking over an ownerless team, do what Tim suggested and PM them.

Far as I'm concerned, we've only got one spot to fill, and that is Jack's old team. Now, if Jimmy-San is absent again this week, I'll PM him and find out what the deal is. If I don't hear back from him, then his team will be up for grabs. Sarge is banned, and, when the ban is lifted, he will still be a member of the DTL if he wishes to be.

[XFanTim]

Actually, the more I think about it the more I think Kid Eternity is sort of an unfair character. I've been debating whether to say anything, because I'm not sure it will be worth the ensuing argument (especially since I don't have any more matches with Guyver). But I think I'll just post my objections once, and if no one else agrees I'll just drop it.

The basic problems with him are that (1) it gives Guyver a near limitless list of characters to choose from (2) it guarantees him a favorable matchup for his writeup, and (3) it forces his opponent to give herself an unfavorable matchup, or be accused of not using his character well. There's also the aforementioned fact that it gives him access to already claimed ubers (although I don't consider this that big an issue). And I don't think the weaknesses of the character mitigate these strengths at all.

Let me elaborate on these, starting with that last point. It's been said that because Kid Eternity is an ordinary human, you could just kill him and presumably whoever he summons goes away. However, most good ubers can protect another character well enough that you'd have to kill them to get to him. (E.g., Dr. Fate can just throw up a magical shield over Kid Eternity, or for that matter hide him with an invisibility spell, and then you're basically stuck dealing with Dr. Fate first. Likewise, if you're not fast enough to beat Barry Allen, you're not going to be able to get by him to get to Kid Eternity. And so forth.) You also can't stop him from summoning the protector, since he does it in prep time. So really, when considering Kid Eternity, we ought to treat him as one character who's substituted out and replaced with an uber of Guyver's choosing, since it amounts to the same thing.

Now on to the other points. First of all, we all probably have characters we dread facing, people who no one on our team matches up that well against. Because with only ten characters to choose from, it's nearly impossible to have an answer for everything. But Guyver doesn't have this problem, because he can pick from any of the dozens of good dead DUs. (Including characters that other people have claimed.) Everyone else has to choose five from the ten on their team, but with Kid Eternity Guyver basically has a wild card spot he can do whatever he wants with.

Furthermore, he gets to fill that wildcard spot after his opponent's lineup is set. I might choose one lineup if my opponent has an uber speedster, and a different one to deal with an uber telepath, and still another one to deal with an uber mage. But I always know which two ubers my opponent is using, and can adjust my lineup accordingly. Not so if I'm facing Kid Eternity. Guyver can wait until the match, and then fill that spot with whichever character my team matches up poorly against. E.g., if I'm prepared for telepaths and speedsters, he'll make sure to choose the mage. So somehow I have to find five characters who can deal with any possible opponent. Since that is pretty much impossible, it essentially guarantees Guyver an advantageous matchup every time.

Not only that, but as his opponent I have to give myself a disadvantageous matchup in my writeup, or else he'd be able to correctly point out that I didn't use his characters intelligently, and I'd lose votes. So if I field a lineup that's weak against mages, I'd have to give him a mage, or the question would be "Why wouldn't Kid Eternity choose that character?" But my lineup will always be weak against something, since it's just five characters. So basically, I have to make sure that I match up badly against him in my own writeup as well as his.

Personally, I think that if Kid Eternity continues to be alllowed then Guyver ought to have to say "I'm using Kid Eternity summoning X" when he posts his starting lineup. This would let his opponent adjust their lineup accordingly, so that Guyver no longer has the huge advantage of getting to choose one character after lineups are set. (He'd still get the advantage of having our characters not know who Kid Eternity was summoning until the battle started, unless we want to eliminate that too. Actually I forgot to mention that -- with Kid Eternity, Guyver is guaranteed one uber who we can't have our team prepare for during preptime.)

Of course, even this adjustment to the rules wouldn't eliminate the first advantage I named, that Guyver can choose from a near limitless list of characters, while the rest of us are limited to ten. Personally, I think it'd be more fair if Kid Eternity could only summon mediums. Giving up one uber lineup spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of mediums seems fair -- giving up one uber spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of ubers doesn't seem so fair.

Anyway, those are my objections and ideas to make the character reasonable. If no one else thinks there's anything unfair about the way he is now, I'll not bring it up again. As I said, I don't care that much since I don't have to face him again anyway. But given that I have some objections, it seemed lame not to mention them just to avoid starting an argument.

[TheCorpulent1]

Pretty much the same objections I raised when the character was first admitted. It's basically the same effect as having one of the insane power copiers of last season, only limited to one uber's power set: You get a revolving door of any character you want on your roster, as opposed to actually having to deal with the limitations of a set roster.

[The Question]

AnnoyingSilence, would you mind giving me some stats on your team? Especially X-Man and Mountjoy.

[TheCorpulent1]

So, now that Invincible's crossing over with Spider-Man in Marvel Team-Up, what would his standing be? I'm guessing he'd be a middleweight, given that his dad--pretty much a carbon copy of Superman (but with a mustache and therefore inherently cooler)--beat the living **** out of him pretty handily.

[primemover]

I think Omniman is beyond Superman, since he single handedly destroyed that universes JLA, which included their analogue of Superman(or maybe Capt. Marvel).

[TheCorpulent1]

Omniman is their analogue of Superman. Are you talking about the cyborg dude with the beard?

And Superman apparently fares pretty well against most of his JLA, as the past few months indicate. Plus, some of the faux-JLA from Invincible weren't nearly as powerful as their counterparts, like the Aquaman analogue.

[AnnoyingSilence]

AnnoyingSilence, would you mind giving me some stats on your team? Especially X-Man and Mountjoy.O, we're going at it this week. i thought i was going against Uj's old team...

What is your line-up going to be?

X-man(Shaman) This is pretty much Cable or Stryfe with different exp in using his powers. with tk he can

Form funnels, if you look on week one where i used a funnel to rocket stryfe into outer space
Release you from gravity, something like kitty pryde phasing so much that she free herself and whoever from the earth gravitational pull
create illusions from dust
create body armor for himself and others
As a "Shaman" he picked up:
Traveling the spiral, which is pretty much deminsional travel
healing, only others and only at a moderate rate
messing with brain chemicals which can shutdown certain parts of your brain

MountJoy - he'll kill anyone in a second or use his powers on them at the same time. He can

1. "jump" into you. this means that within a couple minutes you will cease to exist, but he will still have all your memories, powers and exp with using your powers
2. "ride" you. this means hes jumps into your body and your face will have a single feature of him, but he can still "jump" into people
3. he has an aura 10ft in radius around him that slows your reflexes

[Nightwing.]

Actually, the more I think about it the more I think Kid Eternity is sort of an unfair character. I've been debating whether to say anything, because I'm not sure it will be worth the ensuing argument (especially since I don't have any more matches with Guyver). But I think I'll just post my objections once, and if no one else agrees I'll just drop it.

The basic problems with him are that (1) it gives Guyver a near limitless list of characters to choose from (2) it guarantees him a favorable matchup for his writeup, and (3) it forces his opponent to give herself an unfavorable matchup, or be accused of not using his character well. There's also the aforementioned fact that it gives him access to already claimed ubers (although I don't consider this that big an issue). And I don't think the weaknesses of the character mitigate these strengths at all.

Let me elaborate on these, starting with that last point. It's been said that because Kid Eternity is an ordinary human, you could just kill him and presumably whoever he summons goes away. However, most good ubers can protect another character well enough that you'd have to kill them to get to him. (E.g., Dr. Fate can just throw up a magical shield over Kid Eternity, or for that matter hide him with an invisibility spell, and then you're basically stuck dealing with Dr. Fate first. Likewise, if you're not fast enough to beat Barry Allen, you're not going to be able to get by him to get to Kid Eternity. And so forth.) You also can't stop him from summoning the protector, since he does it in prep time. So really, when considering Kid Eternity, we ought to treat him as one character who's substituted out and replaced with an uber of Guyver's choosing, since it amounts to the same thing.

Now on to the other points. First of all, we all probably have characters we dread facing, people who no one on our team matches up that well against. Because with only ten characters to choose from, it's nearly impossible to have an answer for everything. But Guyver doesn't have this problem, because he can pick from any of the dozens of good dead DUs. (Including characters that other people have claimed.) Everyone else has to choose five from the ten on their team, but with Kid Eternity Guyver basically has a wild card spot he can do whatever he wants with.

Furthermore, he gets to fill that wildcard spot after his opponent's lineup is set. I might choose one lineup if my opponent has an uber speedster, and a different one to deal with an uber telepath, and still another one to deal with an uber mage. But I always know which two ubers my opponent is using, and can adjust my lineup accordingly. Not so if I'm facing Kid Eternity. Guyver can wait until the match, and then fill that spot with whichever character my team matches up poorly against. E.g., if I'm prepared for telepaths and speedsters, he'll make sure to choose the mage. So somehow I have to find five characters who can deal with any possible opponent. Since that is pretty much impossible, it essentially guarantees Guyver an advantageous matchup every time.

Not only that, but as his opponent I have to give myself a disadvantageous matchup in my writeup, or else he'd be able to correctly point out that I didn't use his characters intelligently, and I'd lose votes. So if I field a lineup that's weak against mages, I'd have to give him a mage, or the question would be "Why wouldn't Kid Eternity choose that character?" But my lineup will always be weak against something, since it's just five characters. So basically, I have to make sure that I match up badly against him in my own writeup as well as his.

Personally, I think that if Kid Eternity continues to be alllowed then Guyver ought to have to say "I'm using Kid Eternity summoning X" when he posts his starting lineup. This would let his opponent adjust their lineup accordingly, so that Guyver no longer has the huge advantage of getting to choose one character after lineups are set. (He'd still get the advantage of having our characters not know who Kid Eternity was summoning until the battle started, unless we want to eliminate that too. Actually I forgot to mention that -- with Kid Eternity, Guyver is guaranteed one uber who we can't have our team prepare for during preptime.)

Of course, even this adjustment to the rules wouldn't eliminate the first advantage I named, that Guyver can choose from a near limitless list of characters, while the rest of us are limited to ten. Personally, I think it'd be more fair if Kid Eternity could only summon mediums. Giving up one uber lineup spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of mediums seems fair -- giving up one uber spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of ubers doesn't seem so fair.

Anyway, those are my objections and ideas to make the character reasonable. If no one else thinks there's anything unfair about the way he is now, I'll not bring it up again. As I said, I don't care that much since I don't have to face him again anyway. But given that I have some objections, it seemed lame not to mention them just to avoid starting an argument.

i agree with what Tim is trying to say. and 1 solution could be for him to only bring out mages but then that could cause arguements on who people actually class as mediums or not.the other one which sounds more reasonable is to post who he's planning to use straight off OR posting a list of all the possible characters he could use.and atleast then he cant use anything that could surprise.

[Nightwing.]

Actually, the more I think about it the more I think Kid Eternity is sort of an unfair character. I've been debating whether to say anything, because I'm not sure it will be worth the ensuing argument (especially since I don't have any more matches with Guyver). But I think I'll just post my objections once, and if no one else agrees I'll just drop it.

The basic problems with him are that (1) it gives Guyver a near limitless list of characters to choose from (2) it guarantees him a favorable matchup for his writeup, and (3) it forces his opponent to give herself an unfavorable matchup, or be accused of not using his character well. There's also the aforementioned fact that it gives him access to already claimed ubers (although I don't consider this that big an issue). And I don't think the weaknesses of the character mitigate these strengths at all.

Let me elaborate on these, starting with that last point. It's been said that because Kid Eternity is an ordinary human, you could just kill him and presumably whoever he summons goes away. However, most good ubers can protect another character well enough that you'd have to kill them to get to him. (E.g., Dr. Fate can just throw up a magical shield over Kid Eternity, or for that matter hide him with an invisibility spell, and then you're basically stuck dealing with Dr. Fate first. Likewise, if you're not fast enough to beat Barry Allen, you're not going to be able to get by him to get to Kid Eternity. And so forth.) You also can't stop him from summoning the protector, since he does it in prep time. So really, when considering Kid Eternity, we ought to treat him as one character who's substituted out and replaced with an uber of Guyver's choosing, since it amounts to the same thing.

Now on to the other points. First of all, we all probably have characters we dread facing, people who no one on our team matches up that well against. Because with only ten characters to choose from, it's nearly impossible to have an answer for everything. But Guyver doesn't have this problem, because he can pick from any of the dozens of good dead DUs. (Including characters that other people have claimed.) Everyone else has to choose five from the ten on their team, but with Kid Eternity Guyver basically has a wild card spot he can do whatever he wants with.

Furthermore, he gets to fill that wildcard spot after his opponent's lineup is set. I might choose one lineup if my opponent has an uber speedster, and a different one to deal with an uber telepath, and still another one to deal with an uber mage. But I always know which two ubers my opponent is using, and can adjust my lineup accordingly. Not so if I'm facing Kid Eternity. Guyver can wait until the match, and then fill that spot with whichever character my team matches up poorly against. E.g., if I'm prepared for telepaths and speedsters, he'll make sure to choose the mage. So somehow I have to find five characters who can deal with any possible opponent. Since that is pretty much impossible, it essentially guarantees Guyver an advantageous matchup every time.

Not only that, but as his opponent I have to give myself a disadvantageous matchup in my writeup, or else he'd be able to correctly point out that I didn't use his characters intelligently, and I'd lose votes. So if I field a lineup that's weak against mages, I'd have to give him a mage, or the question would be "Why wouldn't Kid Eternity choose that character?" But my lineup will always be weak against something, since it's just five characters. So basically, I have to make sure that I match up badly against him in my own writeup as well as his.

Personally, I think that if Kid Eternity continues to be alllowed then Guyver ought to have to say "I'm using Kid Eternity summoning X" when he posts his starting lineup. This would let his opponent adjust their lineup accordingly, so that Guyver no longer has the huge advantage of getting to choose one character after lineups are set. (He'd still get the advantage of having our characters not know who Kid Eternity was summoning until the battle started, unless we want to eliminate that too. Actually I forgot to mention that -- with Kid Eternity, Guyver is guaranteed one uber who we can't have our team prepare for during preptime.)

Of course, even this adjustment to the rules wouldn't eliminate the first advantage I named, that Guyver can choose from a near limitless list of characters, while the rest of us are limited to ten. Personally, I think it'd be more fair if Kid Eternity could only summon mediums. Giving up one uber lineup spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of mediums seems fair -- giving up one uber spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of ubers doesn't seem so fair.

Anyway, those are my objections and ideas to make the character reasonable. If no one else thinks there's anything unfair about the way he is now, I'll not bring it up again. As I said, I don't care that much since I don't have to face him again anyway. But given that I have some objections, it seemed lame not to mention them just to avoid starting an argument.

i agree with what Tim is trying to say. and 1 solution could be for him to only bring out mediums but then that could cause arguements on who people actually class as mediums or not.the other one which sounds more reasonable is to post who he's planning to use straight off OR posting a list of all the possible characters he could use.and atleast then he cant use anything that could surprise.

[AnnoyingSilence]

Actually, the more I think about it the more I think Kid Eternity is sort of an unfair character. I've been debating whether to say anything, because I'm not sure it will be worth the ensuing argument (especially since I don't have any more matches with Guyver). But I think I'll just post my objections once, and if no one else agrees I'll just drop it.

The basic problems with him are that (1) it gives Guyver a near limitless list of characters to choose from (2) it guarantees him a favorable matchup for his writeup, and (3) it forces his opponent to give herself an unfavorable matchup, or be accused of not using his character well. There's also the aforementioned fact that it gives him access to already claimed ubers (although I don't consider this that big an issue). And I don't think the weaknesses of the character mitigate these strengths at all.

Let me elaborate on these, starting with that last point. It's been said that because Kid Eternity is an ordinary human, you could just kill him and presumably whoever he summons goes away. However, most good ubers can protect another character well enough that you'd have to kill them to get to him. (E.g., Dr. Fate can just throw up a magical shield over Kid Eternity, or for that matter hide him with an invisibility spell, and then you're basically stuck dealing with Dr. Fate first. Likewise, if you're not fast enough to beat Barry Allen, you're not going to be able to get by him to get to Kid Eternity. And so forth.) You also can't stop him from summoning the protector, since he does it in prep time. So really, when considering Kid Eternity, we ought to treat him as one character who's substituted out and replaced with an uber of Guyver's choosing, since it amounts to the same thing.

Now on to the other points. First of all, we all probably have characters we dread facing, people who no one on our team matches up that well against. Because with only ten characters to choose from, it's nearly impossible to have an answer for everything. But Guyver doesn't have this problem, because he can pick from any of the dozens of good dead DUs. (Including characters that other people have claimed.) Everyone else has to choose five from the ten on their team, but with Kid Eternity Guyver basically has a wild card spot he can do whatever he wants with.

Furthermore, he gets to fill that wildcard spot after his opponent's lineup is set. I might choose one lineup if my opponent has an uber speedster, and a different one to deal with an uber telepath, and still another one to deal with an uber mage. But I always know which two ubers my opponent is using, and can adjust my lineup accordingly. Not so if I'm facing Kid Eternity. Guyver can wait until the match, and then fill that spot with whichever character my team matches up poorly against. E.g., if I'm prepared for telepaths and speedsters, he'll make sure to choose the mage. So somehow I have to find five characters who can deal with any possible opponent. Since that is pretty much impossible, it essentially guarantees Guyver an advantageous matchup every time.

Not only that, but as his opponent I have to give myself a disadvantageous matchup in my writeup, or else he'd be able to correctly point out that I didn't use his characters intelligently, and I'd lose votes. So if I field a lineup that's weak against mages, I'd have to give him a mage, or the question would be "Why wouldn't Kid Eternity choose that character?" But my lineup will always be weak against something, since it's just five characters. So basically, I have to make sure that I match up badly against him in my own writeup as well as his.

Personally, I think that if Kid Eternity continues to be alllowed then Guyver ought to have to say "I'm using Kid Eternity summoning X" when he posts his starting lineup. This would let his opponent adjust their lineup accordingly, so that Guyver no longer has the huge advantage of getting to choose one character after lineups are set. (He'd still get the advantage of having our characters not know who Kid Eternity was summoning until the battle started, unless we want to eliminate that too. Actually I forgot to mention that -- with Kid Eternity, Guyver is guaranteed one uber who we can't have our team prepare for during preptime.)

Of course, even this adjustment to the rules wouldn't eliminate the first advantage I named, that Guyver can choose from a near limitless list of characters, while the rest of us are limited to ten. Personally, I think it'd be more fair if Kid Eternity could only summon mediums. Giving up one uber lineup spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of mediums seems fair -- giving up one uber spot to choose from an essentially limitless list of ubers doesn't seem so fair.

Anyway, those are my objections and ideas to make the character reasonable. If no one else thinks there's anything unfair about the way he is now, I'll not bring it up again. As I said, I don't care that much since I don't have to face him again anyway. But given that I have some objections, it seemed lame not to mention them just to avoid starting an argument.I say if you can't find a way to directly kill KE, you suck

[The Question]

O, we're going at it this week. i thought i was going against Uj's old team...

What is your line-up going to be?

X-man(Shaman) This is pretty much Cable or Stryfe with different exp in using his powers. with tk he can

Form funnels, if you look on week one where i used a funnel to rocket stryfe into outer space
Release you from gravity, something like kitty pryde phasing so much that she free herself and whoever from the earth gravitational pull
create illusions from dust
create body armor for himself and others
As a "Shaman" he picked up:
Traveling the spiral, which is pretty much deminsional travel
healing, only others and only at a moderate rate
messing with brain chemicals which can shutdown certain parts of your brain

MountJoy - he'll kill anyone in a second or use his powers on them at the same time. He can

1. "jump" into you. this means that within a couple minutes you will cease to exist, but he will still have all your memories, powers and exp with using your powers
2. "ride" you. this means hes jumps into your body and your face will have a single feature of him, but he can still "jump" into people
3. he has an aura 10ft in radius around him that slows your reflexes


Wow. I'm kind of ****ed. I might be able to pull this off. As for my SL, I think I might switch Peacemaker for General Glory.

[XFanTim]

I say if you can't find a way to directly kill KE, you suckAnd I say easier said than done, when he can summon an uber that you didn't choose your lineup to deal with. You have to always be prepared for a speedster when facing Kid Eternity, or he'll summon one and take your whole team out before you can attack him. And you have to always be prepared for a mage, or he'll summon one and throw up magical defenses you can't do anything about. Basically, you have to be prepared for pretty much anything. Which is damn hard to do with just five characters.

At least Corp and Nightwing agree with me :up:

[Harlekin]

I'm in favour of having the uber set before the match starts. It will allow some degree of teamchanges for the opposing team. Sure, in-game the team won't know it, but it works out-game.

[XFanTim]

I'm in favour of having the uber set before the match starts. It will allow some degree of teamchanges for the opposing team. Sure, in-game the team won't know it, but it works out-game.
It also makes more sense just from a debating stand point -- at least then both writeups will be talking about the same characters. It's kind of lame for the argument to boil down to "You picked a lame character for me to summon." (I'm not talking about this week -- I fully admit that I had Kid Eternity make a crappy choice in my writeup.)

Actually, I thought the same thing when we had Cerebro building custom characters last season. I think there should be a general rule that if a character has the power to summon/create other characters then those should be specified when the lineup is posted. As Harl says, the opposing characters still wouldn't know what to expect, but at least the opposing owner could choose a lineup and do the writeup with that character in mind.

[AnnoyingSilence]

And I say easier said than done, when he can summon an uber that you didn't choose your lineup to deal with. You have to always be prepared for a speedster when facing Kid Eternity, or he'll summon one and take your whole team out before you can attack him. And you have to always be prepared for a mage, or he'll summon one and throw up magical defenses you can't do anything about. Basically, you have to be prepared for pretty much anything. Which is damn hard to do with just five characters.

At least Corp and Nightwing agree with me :up:in all actualality(if thats a word) i could take out everyones team in a second. combination, mountjoy/crawlers

even though the crawlers dont show the exp of the x-men, 3 of them was shown teleporting across the atlantic together. no, that doesn't mean a thing, but when you can tele someones head off it does