Dream Team League (Discussion)

[Khellendros]

But since Else-Man is out, there's really no way to take S1M out without being cheapo and boom-tubing him or whatnot. If that's the ONLY way to beat a character, shouldn't they be gone?
Actually, his suit has built-in Boom Tube technology. :woot: Didn't X mention that?

[XFanTim]

How powerful is Supes 1-mil physically? I mean, are we talking closer to Doomsday level, or closer to Superman level?

Also, is he immune to magic or just not overly weak against it? Is he susceptible to telepathy?

If he's near Doomsday-level in terms of physical stats, plus he can fly, teleport via Boom Tube (which I for one didn't know), then maybe he should be re-ranked as tuber, unless he has some other significant vulnerabilities.

When we allowed him, I think it was based on the argument that he was closer to Superman (I know X compared him to Gladiator, who has never looked significantly more impressive than Superman in an actual fight -- planet-smashing feats notwithstanding -- and often looks far worse than Supes.)

[Nightwing.]

Actually, his most recent appearance in All-Star Superman has him living in the past for at least a couple days with seemingly no power loss.

Wrong. He's immune to magic.

well i think you've just supported his being Tuber even more by clarifying that he is seemingly too powerful to beat hadn to hand and hes immune to magic....

Im not gonna attempt a write up until Wieg gives a ruling on this guy...i still think he's tuber.

[Khellendros]

How powerful is Supes 1-mil physically? I mean, are we talking closer to Doomsday level, or closer to Superman level?Well he seemed notably, but not dominatingly, stronger than All-Star Supes. So, you tell me. Of course, he also punched through

Also, is he immune to magic or just not overly weak against it? Is he susceptible to telepathy?Couple bad guys were spying on him, decided not to use a magical attack on him and instead go for the older version of Supes because he is immune to magic.

Im not gonna attempt a write up until Wieg gives a ruling on this guy...i still think he's tuber.Won't matter, really. In a previous week, we had to fight a guy who should have been an Uber and was only a medium, wieg said that when someone gets pumped up a ranking, they still get to be used at the previous ranking for that week.







Anyways, you all seem to be misunderstanding something. As I see it, wieg didn't put Supes M* under the old tuber bar, he moved it up after X's constant arguing for him. So, yes, he does overpower most of the Ubers in this. But, so what? Wieg has essentially redefined the tuber category on X's behalf. I just happened to capitalize on that while thwarting X's attempt to get Else-Man, who was even FARTHER above the old tuber bar than Supes M*.

[XFanTim]

About my opponents this week (I know it's an ownerless team, but I'm still gonna do something):

- Blue Beetle's powers are mystical, but they basically just produce an armored battlesuit, right? Any reason to think Magneto couldn't affect this like he effects other metals?
- How strong/durable is Zauriel? Does his sword have any important magical properties? Could it affect an intangible opponent like the Ghost?
- All I know about Traci Thirteen is that she has magical powers. What sorts of spells does she usually use?

I'm also still wondering if I'm actually facing Silver Surfer, given that he's already been grabbed by another team.

[Khellendros]

I don't think Beetle's powers ARE mystical. Just very very advanced tech.

[XFanTim]

Anyways, you all seem to be misunderstanding something. As I see it, wieg didn't put Supes M* under the old tuber bar, he moved it up after X's constant arguing for him. So, yes, he does overpower most of the Ubers in this. But, so what? Wieg has essentially redefined the tuber category on X's behalf. I just happened to capitalize on that while thwarting X's attempt to get Else-Man, who was even FARTHER above the old tuber bar than Supes M*.I don't think that was Wieg's intention. X was arguing that Supes 1-Mil wasn't too uber in comparison to the ubers currently in this thing, and Wieg was eventually convinced. If he's wrong and allowing Supes 1-Mil did constitute a shift in the bar, he should just be disallowed.

[XFanTim]

I don't think Beetle's powers ARE mystical. Just very very advanced tech.Oh, OK. I'm not super familiar with him, I just thought the scarab was some sort of mystical thing. But I guess "tech so advanced it seems magical" is a pretty common thing in comics.

[XFanTim]

Won't matter, really. In a previous week, we had to fight a guy who should have been an Uber and was only a medium, wieg said that when someone gets pumped up a ranking, they still get to be used at the previous ranking for that week.Yeah, generally if we realize a guy was misranked, we don't force a last minute lineup change (since people may have already started writing). But it means you'd be justified in downplaying the guy a bit. I mean, when Etrigan was bumped to uber, you were allowed to treat him as a bit weaker than he really is in order to justify the medium ranking.

Likewise, if we bump Supes 1-Mil to tuber, he should be written as a bit weaker to make him work as an uber this week.

[wiegeabo]

By the way, Who's record is listed incorrectly. You have him at 3-1, but he should have a total of five matches like everyone else.

You're right, he's 4-1. Just like you...;)

[XFanTim]

You're right, he's 4-1. Just like you...;)
Hmm . . . no need to fix it then. :up:

[Aristotle]

When we allowed him, I think it was based on the argument that he was closer to Superman (I know X compared him to Gladiator, who has never looked significantly more impressive than Superman in an actual fight -- planet-smashing feats notwithstanding -- and often looks far worse than Supes.)Stupidly, I think I came down on X's side in that argument, because I was still dumb enough to accept non-combat feats as evidence for rankings. However, if we drop both of those things from Gladiator and S1M, what we're left with is one Superman-lite (Gladiator) and one character who literally cannot be defeated. So how is that not tuber?

[Aristotle]

Well he seemed notably, but not dominatingly, stronger than All-Star Supes.So closer to Doomsday than Superman.

Couple bad guys were spying on him, decided not to use a magical attack on him and instead go for the older version of Supes because he is immune to magic.No weaknesses at ALL.

So, yes, he does overpower most of the Ubers in this. But, so what?So the League is really no fun if one guy can always win every game he plays because he happens to have the character that cannot be beaten.

[Aristotle]

Nightwing, take affirmative action on this. Do what I did with AS. Either he changes his lineup, or you severely underwrite his character, or you choose a different one from his lineup to go up against.

You got my vote. I do not support S1M being in this League. An Amazo with a couple uber powersets isn't allowed, but Josef Huber, with EVERY mutant powerset, and S1M, LITERALLY unbeatable, are allowed? There is no tuber bar. There's a shifting tuber squiggly line that works very nicely for some people, and for others, they get ****ed.

[Khellendros]

Stupidly, I think I came down on X's side in that argument, because I was still dumb enough to accept non-combat feats as evidence for rankings. However, if we drop both of those things from Gladiator and S1M, what we're left with is one Superman-lite (Gladiator) and one character who literally cannot be defeated. So how is that not tuber?Literally cannot be defeated? Pffft. Is he tuber, under the old rules? Sure, but I was saying that from the beginning. But undefeatable, naah.

I do agree that you were stupid, though.

[XFanTim]

I do not support S1M being in this League. An Amazo with a couple uber powersets isn't allowed, but Josef Huber, with EVERY mutant powerset, and S1M, LITERALLY unbeatable, are allowed? There is no tuber bar. There's a shifting tuber squiggly line that works very nicely for some people, and for others, they get ****ed.
Look, Wieg and the rest of us try to enforce a consistent uber bar. But we haven't read every comic and we don't know every character, so sometimes we're taking people's word on how powerful they are. If there's someone who you think is misranked, just keep making that argument until people listen and the problem is corrected.

Regarding Supes 1-Mil, even the character's owner (Khell) has said he was above the previous bar. That also seems to be the opinion of most of the people who're familiar with the character. There wasn't ever any intentional decision to raise the bar (that I know of, anyway), so as far as I'm concerned the guy should probably be banned.

Regarding Josef Huber vs. Amazo, I support keeping Amazo banned, but perhaps you could make a case against Huber too. The argument for allowing Huber was (1) He's choosing from powers that are generally weaker than the powers Amazo had (2) He can't combine so many at once. (At least, we'd assume Huber's owner couldn't give him too many powers, certainly not stacking powers on the level of multiple uber Justice Leaguers.) If you disagree with that reasoning, explain why, and he may be reconsidered.

[Nightwing.]

Well I personally think that Supes 1 Mil should be banned. And if this is to take affect immediately I wouldnt have any objections with the starting line up being changed...

Im not gonna be as cheap as to de power Supes in a write up and im not going to change a character...If he stays in the line up then this week im just not going to do a write up full stop.

[Aristotle]

Literally cannot be defeated? Pffft. Is he tuber, under the old rules? Sure, but I was saying that from the beginning.So why did you take the character? Don't even say you were trying to fend off Else-Man, because Else-Man was disallowed. You're shamelessly acknowledging a double standard.

But undefeatable, naah.OK, how would you beat him?

[Aristotle]

Regarding Supes 1-Mil, even the character's owner (Khell) has said he was above the previous bar. That also seems to be the opinion of most of the people who're familiar with the character. There wasn't ever any intentional decision to raise the bar (that I know of, anyway), so as far as I'm concerned the guy should probably be banned.And he probably will be, now. But that doesn't do much for Nightwing this week, does it?

f you disagree with that reasoning, explain why, and he may be reconsidered.Here's why I disagree with it: just wait until X finds that combination of powers that is literally unbeatable (and come on, we all know it could be found) and someone gets screwed with it. At the VERY least, he should have to specify which powers Huber will be using pre-match. I would even support a completely static Huber: a Huber with a specific powerset for the entire season, no changes, no additions, no subtractions.

[Aristotle]

Im not gonna be as cheap as to de power Supes in a write upIt's nowhere near as cheap as Khel using a character he knows doesn't belong in the League, and I think you're well within your rights to write the character as if he was a beatable character.

[Khellendros]

Heheheh aah, this makes me laugh. Anyways, you kids need to get together with wieg and decide what the deal is here. I won't object to him being ruled tuber, which I was saying he should have been since the beginning (**** you very much Ari, btw, for siding with X earlier and then acting all righteously indignant now), but I need wieg himself to say it.

And, Ari, there IS a difference between Genis, who's apparently omniscient along with having infinite power and Superman M*, who's very very powerful but still beatable. And if you do NEED some ideas for how to beat him see Tim's list of methods, he's posted it at least once and I'm sure he'd love to post them again.

[Aristotle]

which I was saying he should have been since the beginning Why did you then take the character?

(**** you very much Ari, btw, for siding with X earlier and then acting all righteously indignant now)Yeah, I think when that argument was happening, I had not even participated in a match yet. I really was not familiar with the DTL at all, and shouldn't probably have said a thing. I also hadn't really realized how inapplicable those high-end, ludicrous, planet-smashing, star-****ing, black-hole-corking feats really are. I do now. X was wrong. And it strikes me as a bit disingenuous for you to use a character that you STILL believe is tuber.

And, Ari, there IS a difference between Genis, who's apparently omniscient along with having infinite power and Superman M*, who's very very powerful but still beatable. And if you do NEED some ideas for how to beat him see Tim's list of methods, he's posted it at least once and I'm sure he'd love to post them again.I'm glad we still agree on this ridiculous characterization of Genis, at least. I don't recall seeing Tim's list, but if it exists, then fine.

[AnnoyingSilence]

Genis is not omnipotent. hes just as strong as the Silver Surfer, but hes a precog specialist with cosmic abilities.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/jusreal/Captain%20Marvel/scan0001.gif

[AnnoyingSilence]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genis-Vell#Powers_and_abilities

at the end of the powers discription("Reality Altering Powers"). is referring to the first link

[AnnoyingSilence]

this ability really doesn't work in fights... but when your just teleporting, any good fighter will tone into it.

and i don't know if marvels teleporting is limited by speed or not... but he uses it when he needs to....

its was your fault you didn't dupe your chick. if you would've you would've won.

and the titans telepathic blocks can't block when touched by the telepath. any hand-to-hand telepath would find that out(while hes grabbing your throat. Or pinning you down to beat on you. Etc.). though he will blast you too

Thanos would've known that you had telepathic blocks on because he couldn't find you. Thanos: They have telepathic blocks on...
now the whole team knows

[Khellendros]

Why did you then take the character?

...

And it strikes me as a bit disingenuous for you to use a character that you STILL believe is tuber.I've said it at LEAST twice now. I approach drafting for this like an arms race. Do I think this big, ****off nuke should be legal? No. But, better I have it than you.

[Aristotle]

Genis is not omnipotent. hes just as strong as the Silver Surfer, but hes a precog specialist with cosmic abilities.You said he has infinite power and infinite wisdom, and I'm not agreeing that such a character is not tuber.

[Aristotle]

at the end of the powers discription("Reality Altering Powers"). is referring to the first linkThe first link tells me that Genis-Vell is a nutcase who is almost PARALYZED by his abilities, like Doctor Manhattan...where are you taking this? He's either completely tuber, or so cosmically aware that he can't do anything at all. Either way, he ain't winning this week's match.

[Aristotle]

this ability really doesn't work in fightsWell, OK, then, glad that's settled. Forget the second part of the sentence, that's all we need to know.

its was your fault you didn't dupe your chick. if you would've you would've won.Duping Ariella is not what that fight depends on, but this part of the debate belongs in our match thread, not Discussion. Furthermore, Ariella CAN'T dupe for purposes of this match, because I left that out of her description. That disallows the use of the power. I did that because I didn't want people crying tuber in the middle of a match. If people don't think that makes her tuber, then I will use it in the future.

and the titans telepathic blocks can't block when touched by the telepath.1) And you know that how? (2) That doesn't make sense. DCU heroes are shown many times to have psi-blockers powerful enough to COMPLETELY protect them from telepathic contact. (3) This wasn't standard-issue Titans tech. Anarky, a gadgeteer and a super-genius, rigged it up during prep time. This is a guy whose prep time advantage probably actually exceeds Batman's, because of how well he can gadgeteer (Boom tube from scratch) and what he's willing to use (Batman doesn't rock a boom tube.) So yes, he can rig up psi-blockers that good.

[AnnoyingSilence]

sorry. that was an issue of outsiders... meaning if you are using outsider telepath blocks, thier defective.

Anarky doesn't rock a kryptonite ring

[Aristotle]

Anarky doesn't hang out with Superman.

[AnnoyingSilence]

cause hes a rebel and boy scouts don't hang out with losers... he batmans a winner and anarky is a loser.. all criminals are

[XFanTim]

I can't blame Khell for taking a character who was ruled legal (although I can understand why X was mad that he wasn't the one to get him). But now that most of us seem to be on the same page about him being tuber, then it only makes sense to go back to that.

[Aristotle]

That does leave the issue of what Nightwing is supposed to do this match.

[wiegeabo]

That does leave the issue of what Nightwing is supposed to do this match.

No matter what, Nightwing still has to face Supes M* this match.

[Aristotle]

Is he allowed to underwrite him enough to make him a beatable character?

[XFanTim]

That does leave the issue of what Nightwing is supposed to do this match.I think it would be a bit unfair for Khell/Ahura to have to switch their lineup at this point. They may have already started writing their writeup.

Honestly, character's ranks change sometimes, and anyone who's been in this thing as long as Nightwing has has surely had to deal with going up against a misranked character before. I know I have. So you look at how the character is ranked, and adjust your portrayal accordingly. It's not that hard. If Nightwing insists on portraying Supes 1 Mil as tuber for this fight, even though we've ranked him as uber, then that's his problem. There's absolutely no reason to do that.

Really, Nightwing should just portray Superman 1 Million as a little more powerful than Nightwing's own version of Superman. So Nightwing's writeup goes something like:

"Superman Kingdom Come and Supes 1 Million fight a while. Superman Kingdom Come is barely holding him off, but has been pretty badly beaten up and suffered a bunch of broken bones and stuff. Meanwhile, the rest of my characters beat the rest of Ahura/Khell's characters. [Obviously, that part would need to be fleshed out.] Then the remaining members of my team come to Superman Kingdom Come's aid and gang up against Supes 1 Million, eventually over powering him."

It's not like the guy is immune to physical damage like the now-banned Zeitgeist, he's just super-durable in the same way Superman is, only more so. There's no reason you can't write him as getting beaten by a superior force.

The talk of voting against Superman 1-Million just because he's Superman 1-Million, or of refusing to participate unless Khell switches his lineup is blatantly against the rules, and totally unnecessary. The character was let in on the assumption that he was basically a moderately more powerful version of Superman, so while he's still allowed he should be treated as such.

[XFanTim]

Is he allowed to underwrite him enough to make him a beatable character?Short answer: yes, of course. You shouldn't ever write any character as unbeatable, or you're portraying them as tuber. If he's ranked uber, you portray him as uber.

[Nightwing.]

well i havent had chance to write anything just yet as its been my youngests 3rd birthday this weekend and that has taken the energy out of me.......

i will try and get something up be it tomorrow morning/afternoon or night depending on what i can come up with....

so if its after the deadline so be it ill still try participate this week...so Khell/Ahura, you will have your battle just be patient.

[Aristotle]

Meanwhile, the rest of my characters beat the rest of Ahura/Khell's characters.Best. Writeup. Ever.

[wiegeabo]

Well, writeups are due tonight. I finally got my prep up. Have my battle written, just not typed.

So where are all the other writeups at?

[Aristotle]

Tim accidentally posted part of his here instead of in his match:Meanwhile, the rest of my characters beat the rest of Ahura/Khell's characters.Sorry, I can't let go of that.

[Khellendros]

Well, writeups are due tonight. I finally got my prep up. Have my battle written, just not typed.

So where are all the other writeups at?
I just posted my prep, and the Ubers battle. I think I did alright by KC Supes, and wrote Britain at a level far FAR above any I think he's ever operated at in an actual comic (barring powerups I don't know about).

[LadyVader]

Well, writeups are due tonight. I finally got my prep up. Have my battle written, just not typed.

So where are all the other writeups at?
I'll get mine in on monday evening (which would be your monday morning).

[XFanTim]

Man, Aristotle, you weren't kidding when you said you thought my strategies were too complicated. I'm glad to see I've finally found an approach that you can get behind. ;)

[XFanTim]

So where are all the other writeups at?Hey I've got mine up, and I don't even have a real opponent. Although that actually made it a lot easier to write, since I felt very little pressure to make it perfect.

[Dark Gog]

Sorry for disappearing. I'll have my strategy posted tonight, tomorrow at the latest. And I'll add a quick write-up concerneing mostly how my team mixed-up the last round, since the Black Swan can be seen as a destabilizing influence.

Assuming I'm still allowed to do either, of-course.

[XFanTim]

Sorry for disappearing. I'll have my strategy posted tonight, tomorrow at the latest. And I'll add a quick write-up concerneing mostly how my team mixed-up the last round, since the Black Swan can be seen as a destabilizing influence.

Assuming I'm still allowed to do either, of-course.
You're certainly allowed. You can post a writeup whenever you want -- it's just that if you wait too long people may vote before you get around to posting it. (We encourage people to wait if possible though, at least when someone has said they're going to do a writeup.)

[Aristotle]

Sorry for disappearing. I'll have my strategy posted tonight, tomorrow at the latest. And I'll add a quick write-up concerneing mostly how my team mixed-up the last round, since the Black Swan can be seen as a destabilizing influence.

Assuming I'm still allowed to do either, of-course.Oh cool, one of them came back!

[Nightwing.]

I just posted my prep, and the Ubers battle. I think I did alright by KC Supes, and wrote Britain at a level far FAR above any I think he's ever operated at in an actual comic (barring powerups I don't know about).

actually i think you down wrote him....

not posted my write up yet but just going off what you wrote....im not sure if your aware but Brian can see through ANY illusion or cloaking spell.....any trick on the eyes he sees through so Iron Man wouldnt be able to use those tricks on him.....

ill do my write up and get it posted before we debate properly.

[wiegeabo]

Writeups will be closing today.



This has been a friendly reminder. :D

[LadyVader]

Yeah yeah yeah... I need a good night's sleep before churning out my mediocre strategiezzz. :)

[Khellendros]

So, apparently we're about to get spanked with an ice storm so bad that they've already declared a state of emergency. And, since this part of town is really ****ty about losing power at the drop of the hat, I might not be here for the next couple days.

[Asteroid-Man]

Team six? I'll take it. Who's on the team right now anyways?

[wiegeabo]

Whatever characters are listed on it's roster are there for you right now. And you can add/drop at will.

And let me know if you want a team name.

[DTL Commish]

Writeups are closed.

Voting may now begin.

[wiegeabo]

Whatever characters are listed on it's roster are there for you right now. And you can add/drop at will.

And let me know if you want a team name.

Also, if you want to try and get in a practice writeup for this week, I'm sure you're opponent won't mind.

[XFanTim]

Were AS vs Aristotle and Nightwing vs. Ahura/Khell really the only two contested matches this week? Lame. :down

[Aristotle]

So, apparently we're about to get spanked with an ice storm so bad that they've already declared a state of emergency. And, since this part of town is really ****ty about losing power at the drop of the hat, I might not be here for the next couple days.You've got a state of emergency up there? They're only warning us of potential power outages down here.

[wiegeabo]

You've got a state of emergency up there? They're only warning us of potential power outages down here.

Hell, we've got...um...we've got a warning about frost in the morning...:O

[Nightwing.]

Is A-Man gonna stick with it though?Didnt he join then quit?

[Nightwing.]

Were AS vs Aristotle and Nightwing vs. Ahura/Khell really the only two contested matches this week? Lame. :down

consistency from us you see.......

That and Ahura and Khell dont fear a challenge.....

[Harlekin]

Were AS vs Aristotle and Nightwing vs. Ahura/Khell really the only two contested matches this week? Lame. :down
I was away for the weekend, as I notified you guys of. I'll get something up today.

[Who?]

I will have my stuff posted tonight.

[Khellendros]

You've got a state of emergency up there? They're only warning us of potential power outages down here.Actually, it was my soon-to-be brother-in-law who told me that, so he might've been full of ****.

[Khellendros]

Also, did wieg decide one way or the other on Superman M*?

[Nightwing.]

Yeah think he decided that after this week he is Tuber

[wiegeabo]

No I didn't.

But one of the reasons I let M* in was because I let SM Prime with a ring in. Now, Prime doesn't have a ring, but he still has his Prime level powers and lack of weaknesses.

If Superman Prime is still legal, should M* be excluded? I don't think he's as physically powerful as Prime, but he does have a couple of other abilities.

[Nightwing.]

but what is the point of having a character if he is gonna be down played so much?why not just choose regular Supes?

or Superman from No more heroes?

[Aristotle]

Tried to post this earlier, didn't go through I guess: I'll be going to England to see my girlfriend on Saturday, won't be back till late the 23rd. Will I miss a full match?

[wiegeabo]

Tried to post this earlier, didn't go through I guess: I'll be going to England to see my girlfriend on Saturday, won't be back till late the 23rd. Will I miss a full match?

No, the next match won't start for a few days, and it will continue on until the New Year. Writeups probably won't be due until after Christmas.

You'll probably want to get together with who you'll be facing and work out your lineups ahead of time so you'll both know what to expect in the next match.

[Aristotle]

Regarding SMP and S1M: SMP doesn't have to be powered down to write him. S1M clearly does. I think that answers the question.

[Aristotle]

Also, I got a question of clarification. I picked up Ion from an ownerless team. What does the (Torchbearer) part mean?

[LouFerignoDemon]

When he had the entire battery in him. Since after that, it was just a fusion of the Starheart and regular ring.

[Khellendros]

If Superman Prime is still legal, should M* be excluded? I don't think he's as physically powerful as Prime, but he does have a couple of other abilities.Hmmmm. Frankly, no, he shouldn't. Superman M* has some other abilities, yes, but I would still give the Prime the edge physically. And add a ring to that? Pffft. Hell, Superman M* is actually vulnerable to Kryptonite. Presumably the "real" kryptonite, and not just some other random universe's. Which is one thing Prime has over him in the "lack of weaknesses" department. And Ari's portrayal of him as "unbeatable" is just plain wrong. Now, if Ari himself can't seem to think up ways to beat him.. well, that's his problem and not my team's, isn't it? Tim certainly didn't have a problem whipping out a list.

Sorry, kids, changed my mind. If we were going to let Prime with a ring in (and we were, he only got excluded because he never used it, not because of being tuber), Kal makes it in.

[wiegeabo]

When he had the entire battery in him. Since after that, it was just a fusion of the Starheart and regular ring.

Reverse that.

When Kyle was Ion using Jade's Starheart power, the Guardians called him the Torchbearer.


When Kyle was originally Ion (just before or after Circle of Fire), he was tuber. His power was Guardian level.

[LouFerignoDemon]

He was called the torchbearer several times before he achieved her power. People even mentioned to Hal that this is why most people seemed to cherish him as the golden child now, was because he was the torchbearer, the one person who would carry the torch when there was nobody else. He was just known as the torchbearer from then on out.

I'll have to look it up, that's how I remember it. So it maaaay be wrong, but I'll check to be safe.

[wiegeabo]

He was called the torchbearer several times before he achieved her power. People even mentioned to Hal that this is why most people seemed to cherish him as the golden child now, was because he was the torchbearer, the one person who would carry the torch when there was nobody else. He was just known as the torchbearer from then on out.

I'll have to look it up, that's how I remember it. So it maaaay be wrong, but I'll check to be safe.

True. But Corp was using the title to refer to Ion with the Starheart, as opposed to all-powerful Kyle.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Oh!

Yeah, because THAT Ion was probably MORE powerful than the guardians. Being that he was in touch with all the universe and all.

Might as well slap a fairly hungry Galactus into the line-up for kicks if you were to let THAT Ion go through. x.x

[Aristotle]

Hmmmm. Frankly, no, he shouldn't. Superman M* has some other abilities, yes, but I would still give the Prime the edge physically. And add a ring to that? Pffft.Telepathy. Telekinesis. ESP. 10 senses. And that's not going to overpower a guy with a SLIGHT physical edge, and a power ring he doesn't know what to do with? The telepathy alone ends that fight before it's over.

[Aristotle]

The way AnnoyingSilence writes Genis-Vell, you'd think that sort of character was allowable in the League...

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually, the power ring is meant to heavily block out telepathic assault by default, WITHOUT the user's input.

The Quantum Bands are the ones that don't do that.

And Genis-Vell with cosmic awareness is slightly...powerful.

[Khellendros]

Telepathy. Telekinesis. ESP. 10 senses. And that's not going to overpower a guy with a SLIGHT physical edge, and a power ring he doesn't know what to do with? The telepathy alone ends that fight before it's over.Well, hey, if you think Prime is that weak to telepathy... I wouldn't write him as such, but okay.

And Telekinesis, which acts remarkably like, oh, a GL/sinestro ring?

Also, you say "10 senses" like they ever did anything, except make him able to reject possession.

[Aristotle]

And Genis-Vell with cosmic awareness is slightly...powerful.If you believe AS, Genis-Vell with cosmic awareness is God.

[Aristotle]

Well, hey, if you think Prime is that weak to telepathy... I wouldn't write him as such, but okay.Has he EVER shown resistance to it?

And Telekinesis, which acts remarkably like, oh, a GL/sinestro ring?And which guy has more experience with it?

Also, you say "10 senses" like they ever did anything, except make him able to reject possession.Yet another way that SMP can be defeated, and S1M cannot.

[LouFerignoDemon]

If you believe AS, Genis-Vell with cosmic awareness is God.

He sorta DID destroy and recreate the universe with his power. Could ressurect himself AND the dead. He was some pretty powerful stuff.

[Khellendros]

Has he EVER shown resistance to it?Has he ever been attacked with it?

And which guy has more experience with it?Your guy would have had power, mine would have experience. Fair trade, says I.

Yet another way that SMP can be defeated, and S1M cannot.Not like possession is that common a method of taking out Ubers anyways, is it?

[Aristotle]

Has he ever been attacked with it?No. So the question reverts to presumption of no resistance, because such a resistance would be an extra power, and has never been stated.

Not like possession is that common a method of taking out Ubers anyways, is it?When you get into these upper registers of power, sometimes options are a bit thin. Mine can still be taken down by telepathy, can still be taken down by possession, could probably just be taken down by a beatdown from two reasonably competent ubers (like, you know, the way they got him in Infinite Crisis.) Your guy? Pretty much just Else-Man.

[Aristotle]

He sorta DID destroy and recreate the universe with his power. Could ressurect himself AND the dead. He was some pretty powerful stuff.So...why is he allowed in the League?

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm not exactly sure.

He can shunt people to other dimensions, as well as summon them, and move about vast amounts of energy that (bad writing, but still happened) could actually keep the Sentry (who admitted to not really trying) from doing any harm to him, and when the Sentry got serious, he just sent him away.

But I guess as long as you guys cut some of the characteristics out of the characters, it isn't a problem.

[LouFerignoDemon]

But in all truth, I can't see why some people make it on the docket at all.

Superman OM with a power ring? Yeah, NOTHING goes about stopping that short of a super cosmic of some sort, who would STILL have trouble.

[Khellendros]

No. So the question reverts to presumption of no resistance, because such a resistance would be an extra power, and has never been stated.I'm not sure about DC, but in Marvel simply having a strong will gives you at least some resistance to telepathy. And I know being crazy makes it hard for telepaths in DC. I wouldn't call that a seperate power, unless you claimed outright immunity. Let us not forget, we're not talking top tier TP when referring to Supes M*.


When you get into these upper registers of power, sometimes options are a bit thin. Mine can still be taken down by telepathy, can still be taken down by possession, could probably just be taken down by a beatdown from two reasonably competent ubers (like, you know, the way they got him in Infinite Crisis.) Your guy? Pretty much just Else-Man.Again you say only Else-Man could beat him. And hey, if you really BELIEVE that, fine. I'll just add Superman M* to our lineup when we face you and make it that much easier on us. But I've said time and again that's just not the case. Now, no, I'm not going to rattle off a list of ways to beat him, just like I wouldn't want from you in regards to any of your characters. But in this thread alone I've revealed a kryptonite weakness (which I was only reminded of today, in re-reading the DC 1 million 80 page giant) and have once again told you that Time made a whole list of methods for beating him.

[Khellendros]

But in all truth, I can't see why some people make it on the docket at all.

Superman OM with a power ring? Yeah, NOTHING goes about stopping that short of a super cosmic of some sort, who would STILL have trouble.Not Superman 1 million with a GL ring. Superman Prime with a Sinestro Corps ring.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Wow, Superman Prime ALONE is more than powerful enough for most people or even teams to survive, but with a ring?

[Khellendros]

Wow, Superman Prime ALONE is more than powerful enough for most people or even teams to survive, but with a ring?Teams of, mostly, mid-tiers and incompetently fighting top tiers, yeah.

[LouFerignoDemon]

That much power overflow didn't even PHASE him, much less slow him down. We're talking about a being who literally represents Pre-COIE power levels that allow him to easily move planets under his own power. Durability that has shown that he basically can only injure himself.

[Khellendros]

That much power overflow didn't even PHASE him, much less slow him down. We're talking about a being who literally represents Pre-COIE power levels that allow him to easily move planets under his own power. Durability that has shown that he basically can only injure himself.Yes, the waves of weaker people fighting like idiots didn't hurt him. Shocking. Flashes fighting with a bit of intelligence dumped his ass in the Speed Force, and in the second big fight Wally had him stuttering and running.

Meanwhile, the Martians fly up and... bearhug him. Don't phase a hand or something into his body, or use telepathy on him. They try squeezing him real hard. Glorious.

[Aristotle]

I'm not sure about DC, but in Marvel simply having a strong will gives you at least some resistance to telepathy. And I know being crazy makes it hard for telepaths in DC. I wouldn't call that a seperate power, unless you claimed outright immunity. Let us not forget, we're not talking top tier TP when referring to Supes M*.Fair enough, but that's still an extra power that SMP doesn't have, and S1M does, and it is a pretty substantial one.

[Aristotle]

That much power overflow didn't even PHASE him, much less slow him down. We're talking about a being who literally represents Pre-COIE power levels that allow him to easily move planets under his own power. Durability that has shown that he basically can only injure himself.We're also talking about a being who could REALLY easily be ended by Martian Manhunter.

[Nightwing.]

Tried to post this earlier, didn't go through I guess: I'll be going to England to see my girlfriend on Saturday, won't be back till late the 23rd. Will I miss a full match?

England eh????Which part?

Obviously Yorkshire is the best part......

[Aristotle]

Portsmouth.

...yes, I'm sure you'll have plenty of badmouthing to do now about how much the South sucks and all...

[Khellendros]

Holy long distance relationships, Batman! Did you meet her over the interwebs or what?

[Ahura Mazda]

How are you getting there? By train...

It sucks when a city has no readily accessible airport. :mad:

[Khellendros]

Unless they just built a new Atlantic-crossing train line, he's gonna be flying. Ari's a fellow Kansas boy.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yes, the waves of weaker people fighting like idiots didn't hurt him. Shocking. Flashes fighting with a bit of intelligence dumped his ass in the Speed Force, and in the second big fight Wally had him stuttering and running.

Meanwhile, the Martians fly up and... bearhug him. Don't phase a hand or something into his body, or use telepathy on him. They try squeezing him real hard. Glorious.

Actually, that sort of focus he smashed through did sort of give the notion the GL Corps did have some fairly decent training at the very least to create a powerful wall out of all their rings that he just went through like nothing.

As for the Flashes, dragging someone into the Speed Force is impressive, if your super power wasn't channelling a force that's literally more powerful than guys like the Spectre. So when you're comparing something like Titans/GLC to the all consuming Speed Force, it's an odd comparison.

We're also talking about a being who could REALLY easily be ended by Martian Manhunter.

Not with the ring, if it functions like a GL ring.

[Aristotle]

Not with the ring, if it functions like a GL ring.Has J'onn ever tried influencing a ringslinger?

[Aristotle]

How are you getting there? By train...

It sucks when a city has no readily accessible airport. :mad:Flying into London.

[Aristotle]

Holy long distance relationships, Batman! Did you meet her over the interwebs or what?No, I don't believe in dating over the series of tubes. I work summers at a camp for the blind, and we're part of a fairly large "foreign exchange" program that brings in counselors from all over the world, but predominantly from England and Aus. She came over this past summer, and she's drop-dead gorgeous, so I made a move, and what do you know, I'm lucky.

[LouFerignoDemon]

The rings are auto geared to block mental attacks, or so they say to us.

[XFanTim]

Let's take the discussion of whether various characters are uber or too uber over to the rankings thread, which is where it actually belongs.

[Ahura Mazda]

Unless they just built a new Atlantic-crossing train line, he's gonna be flying. Ari's a fellow Kansas boy.

Did not realise that but I was thinking from London...

[LadyVader]

When's the deadline for line-ups?

[Khellendros]

Let's take the discussion of whether various characters are uber or too uber over to the rankings thread, which is where it actually belongs.

Err. Wieg usually tells us to move lengthy discussions from there to here, doesn't he?

[Khellendros]

When's the deadline for line-ups?NOW! GO GO GO GO GO!!

[wiegeabo]

Err. Wieg usually tells us to move lengthy discussions from there to here, doesn't he?

Tim's one of my lieutenants. He does some of my dirty work. Helps decide rankings, update the Update thread, hide the bodies..., help things run smoothly.

[XFanTim]

Khell wasn't protesting that I shouldn't be the one telling them, he was protesting that it should be moving the other way. But I think he's confused:

- lengthy discussions from the Transactions thread get moved to Discussions

- discussions about rankings (which always end up being lengthy) get moved from either Discussions or Transactions to the Rankings thread.

Yes?

[XFanTim]

By the way, shouldn't this be a theme week?

[wiegeabo]

By the way, shouldn't this be a theme week?

Yes it should...


Voting will end today.

I'll announce the theme tonight. And since lineups are due tomorrow, that gives everyone time to make changes.

[wiegeabo]

Here's a question that I'm wrestling with. How literal should I be with this rule?
If you miss two games, you're team is up for grabs. You can reclaim your team once, but if you miss another game, you are out for the season, and your team is up for grabs to anyone else.

My original intention was that if you fail to post a battle, even if you're active in the threads, it counts as missing games. This would (hopefully) force everyone to at least be a little competitive.

But, I could loosen to mean that if you disappear altogether for a week, not posting anything in any threads, then it counts as a loss.


I ask this because there are a couple of players who are facing losing a team, or getting close to it. And I'd hate to take away teams because life gets in the way. But since real life is more important, I also feel it may be better that the team goes to someone who can spare the time for the game.

[Khellendros]

MEDIUM WEEK MEDIUM WEEK! Come onnnnnnnnnnn!

[Khellendros]

No, wait!! This is Ahura's week! Make it Medium week next week!

[Khellendros]

Here's a question that I'm wrestling with. How literal should I be with this rule?


My original intention was that if you fail to post a battle, even if you're active in the threads, it counts as missing games. This would (hopefully) force everyone to at least be a little competitive.

But, I could loosen to mean that if you disappear altogether for a week, not posting anything in any threads, then it counts as a loss.


I ask this because there are a couple of players who are facing losing a team, or getting close to it. And I'd hate to take away teams because life gets in the way. But since real life is more important, I also feel it may be better that the team goes to someone who can spare the time for the game.
I wouldn't care if you weren't a hardass about it. Especially if they have good reasons like real life needing to be taken care of. Still, if you want to take a hard line, that IS the rule, and they should've read them when they signed up.

[LadyVader]

Yes it should...


Voting will end today.

I'll announce the theme tonight. And since lineups are due tomorrow, that gives everyone time to make changes.

I don't wanna be inconsiderate but could you delay closing the voting until I get a chance to vote? I should do that in about 8 hours or so. I'm going to sleep now and I'll vote first thing in the morning. :)

[Nightwing.]

No, I don't believe in dating over the series of tubes. I work summers at a camp for the blind, and we're part of a fairly large "foreign exchange" program that brings in counselors from all over the world, but predominantly from England and Aus. She came over this past summer, and she's drop-dead gorgeous, so I made a move, and what do you know, I'm lucky.

cool....is she blind? this isnt a dig im just wondering cos you said you work with the blind....

Also yeah the south sucks in comparison to Yorkshire....infact Yorkshire is the bestest place in the whole world (narrow minded and wont be changed) :D

I love where i live...even if it is riddled with chaos and crime etc....which is why i do what job i do.....

[Nightwing.]

double post

[Aristotle]

cool....is she blind? this isnt a dig im just wondering cos you said you work with the blind....No, most of the counselors aren't.

[Nightwing.]

oh ok...so can you read braille then?

[Aristotle]

Nope, our responsibilities are more along the lines of being in charge of activities for them to do and allowing them to be active and outdoorsy...most of them never get the chance to do sort of outdoorsy things that we allow them to do and facilitate for them.

Boy, I'm just a walking advertisement, eh?

[LouFerignoDemon]

Here's a question that I'm wrestling with. How literal should I be with this rule?


My original intention was that if you fail to post a battle, even if you're active in the threads, it counts as missing games. This would (hopefully) force everyone to at least be a little competitive.

But, I could loosen to mean that if you disappear altogether for a week, not posting anything in any threads, then it counts as a loss.


I ask this because there are a couple of players who are facing losing a team, or getting close to it. And I'd hate to take away teams because life gets in the way. But since real life is more important, I also feel it may be better that the team goes to someone who can spare the time for the game.


Unfortunately, as much as I'd LOVE to play, my life won't allow me at the moment. While it sucks that I probably won't be able to use my team ever again (even if my intention IS to come back), it's understandable.

[Aristotle]

Wiegs, with all these owners dropping out, I bet you're just thinking to yourself, "MAN. I wish somebody would volunteer to pick up a couple extra teams, just for the rest of the season..."

Well, my friend, you're in luck. I think I know a guy, and his name is ME.

[Nightwing.]

Nope, our responsibilities are more along the lines of being in charge of activities for them to do and allowing them to be active and outdoorsy...most of them never get the chance to do sort of outdoorsy things that we allow them to do and facilitate for them.

Boy, I'm just a walking advertisement, eh?

when you talk about outdoorsy things it just reminds me of that scene in dude wheres my car with the blind camp and the kid feels up that lass....and the other kid smacks the trainer in the nuts with a baseball bat cos his beeper goes off

classic

[LouFerignoDemon]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to stay and play. But with the akward (logic destroying) rules that I'd have to rethink for, I can't switch my brain like that too much. x.x

It leads to the "Dark Francoise" which nearly resulted in the murder of someone once when I snapped. x.x

LUCKILY I had forgotten to -load- the gun.

[wiegeabo]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to stay and play. But with the akward (logic destroying) rules that I'd have to rethink for, I can't switch my brain like that too much. x.x

It leads to the "Dark Francoise" which nearly resulted in the murder of someone once when I snapped. x.x

LUCKILY I had forgotten to -load- the gun.

*backs away slowly and quietly closes door*

[wiegeabo]

MG, if real life keeps you out this season, we all understand. And your more than welcome to vote in matches and discuss. And pick up a team next season if you have time.

We'll also review rules before the next season, like we always do, so you'll have a chance to bring up any rule changes/additions as well.

[Aristotle]

when you talk about outdoorsy things it just reminds me of that scene in dude wheres my car with the blind camp and the kid feels up that lass....and the other kid smacks the trainer in the nuts with a baseball bat cos his beeper goes off

classicI'll have to watch that now.

[LouFerignoDemon]

*backs away slowly and quietly closes door*

That time is behind me now. It's what happens when I'm leading like two + projects, helping in a third or fourth (which leaves my mind in a state of constant humour/logic) and then try to do things that would counteract that (nonhumour/antilogic), and them someone tries to get on my case for something for a week or two, and I just so happen to have a gun collection handy. The rules are understandable, they just don't follow logic. x.x

(It was hilarious the look on his face when I busted it out and just started clicking, and watched him go running, NOT giving me time to load up the gun. Well, it's funny NOW. Before, I was trying to get him to just leave me the hell alone.)

MG, if real life keeps you out this season, we all understand. And your more than welcome to vote in matches and discuss. And pick up a team next season if you have time.

We'll also review rules before the next season, like we always do, so you'll have a chance to bring up any rule changes/additions as well.

I'll probably be occupied up until March or April, unfortunately. :( And no lies, I'll probably just be voting here on out if I losez the team, as I don't wanna go about constructing another. x.x

But I can understand if someone wants them, but can't have them because I'm holding onto them, and making them collect dust. Though they aren't super conductive to most teams. x.x

[Aristotle]

I'll Take It! Me! Over Here!

[Nightwing.]

I think Ari wants another team.....

Im picking up those vibes...not sure where from though....

[Khellendros]

If Ari gets another team, I want one too goddamnit!!

[Aristotle]

OK, Khell, let's team up on this and convince the rest of the League that we should have another team.

1) There's no conflict of interest. When one of my team faces another, I'll just do one writeup and have one of them win. The only person I could be "cheating" against is myself.
2) It's not like we'd get double voting power, or the power to vote in our own matches.
3) Where's the harm?
4) I got time. Why not let me pick up a spare team?
5) Don't we want more contest matches? I do.

[wiegeabo]

Ok, our theme week was randomly chosen and hermetically sealed, kept in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' porch since noon today. (If you get that reference without cheating, automatic win for you! And you'll have proven just how old you are.)

I threw Zombie week in since it seemed to be an agreeable idea. And guess which theme won. That's right! This week's theme is:


AMBUSH WEEK!

(ha! got ya)

That's right, Ambush Week. This week, you get to choose your opponent's lineup.

Have fun!

[Aristotle]

Extra teams yes yes?

[Aristotle]

I assume we still post our opponent's lineup, as we pick them, in the Transaction thread?

[Khellendros]

OK, Khell, let's team up on this and convince the rest of the League that we should have another team.

1) There's no conflict of interest. When one of my team faces another, I'll just do one writeup and have one of them win. The only person I could be "cheating" against is myself.
2) It's not like we'd get double voting power, or the power to vote in our own matches.
3) Where's the harm?
4) I got time. Why not let me pick up a spare team?
5) Don't we want more contest matches? I do.F *CK that rationality bull****. Second team or I declare a jihad!

[Khellendros]

Ok, our theme week was randomly chosen and hermetically sealed, kept in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' porch since noon today. (If you get that reference without cheating, automatic win for you! And you'll have proven just how old you are.)

I threw Zombie week in since it seemed to be an agreeable idea. And guess which theme won. That's right! This week's theme is:


AMBUSH WEEK!

(ha! got ya)

That's right, Ambush Week. This week, you get to choose your opponent's lineup.

Have fun!...Oh man. That is super hardcore not cool.

[Harlekin]

Yeah, pretty uncool theme week, but interesting.

[wiegeabo]

...Oh man. That is super hardcore not cool.

But you were one of the supporters of Ambush Week. :confused:


Unless you were talking about my Zombie Week buildup. :hehe:

[wiegeabo]

Oh, and to be fair with the Ambush lineup, everyone must strictly follow the 2 uber, 1 mid, 2 regs lineup.


For those without an opponent this week, since they can't choose a lineup for you, you will get your lineup from this past week.

[Aristotle]

Khell, I think Wiegs is ignoring our pleas.

[Aristotle]

Does anyone know if Who? plans to vote? It's kinda gonna be the deciding factor in my match.

[Khellendros]

But you were one of the supporters of Ambush Week. :confused:


Unless you were talking about my Zombie Week buildup. :hehe:Yeah, zombie Week is gaaaay. Ambush week is nifty.

Khell, I think Wiegs is ignoring our pleas.I know, man. I am so gonna drive a car through his office.

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now closed.

[wiegeabo]

Well, once again, not much movement in the rankings. A couple of teams switched positions, but that's it.

[XFanTim]

Man, there goes half my planning for this week.

Oh well, at least it looks like Nightwing is leaving me with a few of the guys I picked.

[wiegeabo]

Just a reminder, since we're going to start losing people to the holidays soon, this round of matches is taking place over the next two weeks.

So, while it starts today, it won't end until January 3. And writeups won't be due until after Christmas (I'm thinking the 27th).

So, everyone who is going to be around for a while longer should have a week to get their writeups in. And those who won't should still have some time to work one out. And we'll have a week to vote. So, unless someone plans to be gone for a whole month, I think we should be able to get full participation out of everyone.

[XFanTim]

Gotta love the laid-back schedule. :up:

[Aristotle]

Laid-back. With our minds on our money and our money on our minds.

[Nightwing.]

Man, there goes half my planning for this week.

Oh well, at least it looks like Nightwing is leaving me with a few of the guys I picked.

yeah i think you changed just one of mine.....sorry...i looked at your characters and those were the ones i either knew best or felt i had a better chance over.

[XFanTim]

yeah i think you changed just one of mine.....sorry...i looked at your characters and those were the ones i either knew best or felt i had a better chance over.No big deal, the main thing I had to change is that I'd originally been planning to use my teleporters (Hadrian, Darkchylde). My basic idea was to 'port your team into the Danger Room but have it already running so your guys wouldn't realize that was where they were.

But I've already come up with some new strategies with the team you picked, so like I said, it's no big deal. :)

[wiegeabo]

Ok, I'm back. I've been sick all weekend, but I finally got this week's matches up.

[Ahura Mazda]

Just want to note one thing regarding my battle. i will do the original write up but after the 21st I will no longer be online until at least the 3rd. Therefore from the 21st onwards, it is up to Khellendros.

[Khellendros]

What the hell? On the Forum page it says Ahura just posted here, but when I come into the thread, I just see Wieg's last post.

[wiegeabo]

I see Ahura's post just fine. :confused:

[Khellendros]

SON OF A *****! It didn't even show up after I posted! I'm only just now seeing it.


This forum is ****ing with me, man.

[Aristotle]

Kinda like the TSA guys keep ****ing with me. My baggage has been searched EVERY time I have flown since 9/11, and something usually gets damaged or stolen by the TSA. That's about 20 flights in those six years, by the way, so about 20 things damaged or stolen. Once, the guy SLASHED OPEN my toothpaste tube, and stole the cap for the toothpaste, so it squirted out all over my luggage from both holes. Another time, he left a can of Diet Coke in my luggage, which exploded everywhere, from the pressure. Another time, he just took my pocket knife, and STABBED it through my bar of soap, and left it like that.

This time, on my trip to England, they just lost my luggage...TWICE. I ****ing hate them. Them and US Airways.

[TheCorpulent1]

Carry-ons, man. Carry-ons.

[wiegeabo]

Kinda like the TSA guys keep ****ing with me. My baggage has been searched EVERY time I have flown since 9/11, and something usually gets damaged or stolen by the TSA. That's about 20 flights in those six years, by the way, so about 20 things damaged or stolen. Once, the guy SLASHED OPEN my toothpaste tube, and stole the cap for the toothpaste, so it squirted out all over my luggage from both holes. Another time, he left a can of Diet Coke in my luggage, which exploded everywhere, from the pressure. Another time, he just took my pocket knife, and STABBED it through my bar of soap, and left it like that.

This time, on my trip to England, they just lost my luggage...TWICE. I ****ing hate them. Them and US Airways.

**** with them right back. Get the id, badge number, whatever of the person searching your stuff. Then file a complaint with the airport, the airline, TSA, and whoever else you can think of. Then, to really hit them, where it hurts, file a claim for damages to make them pay for whatever was done to your property. Then, as the last straw, tell them that you'll probably never use their airport/airline again because they employ/allow incompetent agents. They might just ignore you, or you may get a free flight or something because they want to keep your business.

[Aristotle]

**** with them right back. Get the id, badge number, whatever of the person searching your stuff. Then file a complaint with the airport, the airline, TSA, and whoever else you can think of. Then, to really hit them, where it hurts, file a claim for damages to make them pay for whatever was done to your property. Then, as the last straw, tell them that you'll probably never use their airport/airline again because they employ/allow incompetent agents. They might just ignore you, or you may get a free flight or something because they want to keep your business.Hmm. Can I get the info on the TSA guys? Like, these aren't people that I can see searching my stuff, they search the checked bags. By the time I receive my bags, I'm already at my destination.

I really should tell US Airways I'll never use them again. Because I won't. They suck.

[Nightwing.]

Merry Christmas Fellow DTL'ers

[Aristotle]

Merry Crimbo, as those crazy English would say...

[Nightwing.]

Crimbo is blasphemy in England as is Xmas.....

We're traditional and if its worth saying it has to be Christmas :p

Joking....we're not that fussy.

Although I don't like people saying Maccy D's....That bugs the crap out of me.

[Harlekin]

Merry Christmas, guys.

[XFanTim]

A belated "Happy Chanukah!" and "Eid Mubarak!" to you all.

Oh, yeah, and that Christmas thing too. Have a merry one. :)

[Aristotle]

Crimbo is blasphemy in EnglandIt's what every English person I've ever known has called it...of course, I've only known Southerners, so that could be the difference.

Although I don't like people saying Maccy D's....That bugs the crap out of me.Of course, it's Mickey D's.

[Aristotle]

Likewise Tim, and cheers for correct spelling (although I've been known to disagree with putting an H on the end.)

[AnnoyingSilence]

funny thing is... its not jesus' birthday

theres 3 guesses on his birthday in professional standards... january, april and june something... we celebrate his birthday on dec 25th because a pegan holiday was so popular with giving gifts that the churches decided to change jesus' to make it easier on the christians... saw it on the history channel last night, along with reading "angels and demons" which has the same facts in it.

[Aristotle]

Generally, you'll want to take both the History Channel and Dan Brown with about ten pounds of salt, but in this case, they're correct.

[AnnoyingSilence]

then i guess i wouldn't take you for 2lbs of salt

[Aristotle]

Well that makes no sense at all, but I THINK you're suggesting that I am not to be trusted in matters of history. Son, I study history. I care about history. History is important to me. Theological history has a special place in my heart, in particular.

Dan Brown doesn't care about history. To Dan Brown, and to the History Channel, history is something to be manipulated for a profit. That's why they're untrustworthy.

[LouFerignoDemon]

"Son?"



Either way, Merry belated stolen Pagan holiday giftwrapped as a Christian holiday. I'd have wished it sooner, but I was kind of working my ass off for the past four days. x.x

[Aristotle]

Yeah, son. It's a bit of a pejorative, intended to convey that the speaker perceives the intellect of the recipient as being somewhat stunted, like that of a child.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Should I call you "son" then? o.o

[Aristotle]

If that's how you feel, I certainly can't stop you from doing it, no.

[wiegeabo]

Hope everyone had a good time and enjoyed this extra long week. But it's already the last to get writeups in for those who haven't (I haven't checked, so Im' just making an unfair blanket statement that includes everyone).

Voting will open up tomorrow and finish in the New Year.

[Aristotle]

I think everyone's gotten them in.

[LadyVader]

I'd still like to elaborate on my prep time and I will do that tonight.

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, son. It's a bit of a pejorative, intended to convey that the speaker perceives the intellect of the recipient as being somewhat stunted, like that of a child.
Man, I can just feel the holiday cheer. ;)

Regarding Chanukah, I've got my Jewish grandma's cards to copy the spelling from. :)

[Aristotle]

Yeah, it's a subjective thing regarding the H on the end, but "Hanukkah" and the like is definitely wrong.

[Aristotle]

EDIT: I guess if you see it as him just shaking himself back and forth really fast then Zoom could do it . . . I always thought it was Flash using the Speedforce to pump extra kinetic energy into his molecules ("exciting their vibrational modes", in physics-speak).As something of a Flash fan, although certainly not the biggest Flash fan, I think I'm pretty sure that it's just shaking himself very quickly, essentially. But it could be what you're suggesting, I guess. The thing is, Zoom eventually DID figure out how to do it, which demonstrates to me that he's quite the novice with his powers, compared to the Flashes, which is why they always do so well against him, in the end.

[Dark Gog]

Alright, obviously I can't really keep-up with the schedule, but I'll try and still put-in some sort of write-up every week until someone takes my team off my hands.

In the meantime, I suppose my picks are up for grabs, but rather than leaving things to whomever gets there first, I thought I'd act as caretaker to my team and wait for the higest bidder before trading. (That is to say, supposing two teams wanted Zemo, and one were only willing to part with the Hulk, while the other offered Sentinel in trade, I'd accept the second offer, even if it came-in later.)

I'll be back tomorrow.

[XFanTim]

In the meantime, I suppose my picks are up for grabs, but rather than leaving things to whomever gets there first, I thought I'd act as caretaker to my team and wait for the higest bidder before trading. (That is to say, supposing two teams wanted Zemo, and one were only willing to part with the Hulk, while the other offered Sentinel in trade, I'd accept the second offer, even if it came-in later.)
I think I'd be interested in getting Ares, but I don't know that much about him. How strong is he? How fast? (Like, what other characters is his strength/speed comparable to?) How durable is he? What other key powers does he have? I know he can teleport . . .

Depending on the answers to those questions, I'd be willing to go pretty high in the bidding. I'd presumably be swapping him for one of my other ubers, either Loki, Doomsday/Brainiac or Zoom. (I don't want to give up Hadrian or Magus.)

I'd also be interested in the opinion of the other DTLers. The main thing I don't like about Doomsday/Brainiac is he's vulnerable to people kicking Brainy out of his mind and then taking advantage of his mindlessness. Ares wouldn't have that problem. Do you all think I'd be getting a bad deal here?

Alternatively, I might drop Zoom, but I've been thinking of swapping him anyway for someone like Savitar. (Any opinions here?) As for Loki, the main reason I'm considering dropping him is I don't think I know him well enough to use him to full effect. I think I write him too much like a generic mage. That said, a generic mage is still a useful thing to have.

[Dark Gog]

I actually posted a link here earlier to a Respect Thread (http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,157134.msg2559080.html#msg2559080) I put up for Ares. I expect to have it finalised tomorrow, I'll answer any further questions then.

Broadly though, he can manipulate reflective surfaces, commands the realms and resources of both Hades and Areopagus, can shape-shift, manipulate souls and dimensions, grant powers, and create avatars. He can also use Hades' Staff, and is just about immune to illusions, and has shown to have considerable mystic mojo behind him.

He's at-least c100+ to begin with, and has a lot of room to advance. His speed is probably somewhat enhanced due to skill and processing-speed, but nothing too fancy. I'd be surprised if he couldn't fly as well. At the very least, he can levitate.

He has other powers - the God Wounds for one, seemingly native to all Olympians, and an encyclopedic knowledge of warfare. There's probably more he can do, but those are the main powers that we've seen, and perhaps what's keeping him below the Tuber line (which I feel he's safely under, particularly now that folk like S1M and Prime made it in). I don't think I've ever seen him harm a soul that wasn't in some way connected to him or in possession of another body, and that's how I've written him, but it's hardly set in stone.

Finally, he's shown that he can summon his own regalia and bless mundane weapons, both abilities I've made some use of through-out this tournament.



I was thinking it would probably be simpler to keep trade offers private, but have no real problem doing things either way.

[Aristotle]

So Gog, you're still doing wirteups, but you're offering up all your characters?

[XFanTim]

I was thinking it would probably be simpler to keep trade offers private, but have no real problem doing things either way.Well, the only advantage of making it public is I'd know if I need to up my bid.

Anyway, I'll need a day or so to look over the respect thread and maybe re-read how you used him in your matches, and then I'll let you know whom I'm willing to trade for him.

[Aristotle]

How many teams make the playoffs?

[Harlekin]

Sorry guys, but I don't really feel like explaining myself this week, ergo commentless votes.

[wiegeabo]

How many teams make the playoffs?

The plan is for six teams to move on, three from each conference. The conference winner will get a first round bye week while the second and third place teams fight in the first round.

[XFanTim]

I actually posted a link here earlier to a Respect Thread (http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,157134.msg2559080.html#msg2559080) I put up for Ares. I expect to have it finalised tomorrow, I'll answer any further questions then.

Broadly though, he can manipulate reflective surfaces, commands the realms and resources of both Hades and Areopagus, can shape-shift, manipulate souls and dimensions, grant powers, and create avatars. He can also use Hades' Staff, and is just about immune to illusions, and has shown to have considerable mystic mojo behind him.

He's at-least c100+ to begin with, and has a lot of room to advance. His speed is probably somewhat enhanced due to skill and processing-speed, but nothing too fancy. I'd be surprised if he couldn't fly as well. At the very least, he can levitate.

He has other powers - the God Wounds for one, seemingly native to all Olympians, and an encyclopedic knowledge of warfare. There's probably more he can do, but those are the main powers that we've seen, and perhaps what's keeping him below the Tuber line (which I feel he's safely under, particularly now that folk like S1M and Prime made it in). I don't think I've ever seen him harm a soul that wasn't in some way connected to him or in possession of another body, and that's how I've written him, but it's hardly set in stone.

Finally, he's shown that he can summon his own regalia and bless mundane weapons, both abilities I've made some use of through-out this tournament.I've looked through the Respect Thread. It clarified some things, but I still have a few questions.

(1) How durable is he, both with and without his armor? Either in terms of how much damage it would take to put him down, or other characters who'd be comparable in durability.
(2) Has he actually been shown to shapeshift (beyond the line you quoted about Gods taking whatever shape they want), or have we just seen him change size?
(3) Is he resistant to telepathy, or just "illusions"?
(4) What exactly does Hades staff do? I'm not really sure how to interpret "devouring the stuff of life itself."

I'm also still trying to get a sense of his strength level, specifically his strength level outside of Hades or Aeropagus and under normal conditions (not on the verge of World War III like in some of those scans). You described him as Class 100, but there's class 100 and class 100 if you know what I mean. Are we talking Superman level? Beyond Superman level?

In general, I do best with comparisons to other characters.

[Nightwing.]

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!

From Nightwing and family

[XFanTim]

Happy New Year everybody. :D

[Khellendros]

Happy New Year, who has a hangover?

[wiegeabo]

Happy New Year, who has a hangover?

Stop Yelling!!! :csad:

[Aristotle]

Happy New Year, who has a hangover?I sure did. I was so useless all day. Read a few comics, played a couple games of spades, called it good.

[Khellendros]

Egg nog and Coconut Rum gives me a huge boner. Just wanted to share.

[AnnoyingSilence]

happy birthday

[wiegeabo]

Egg nog and Coconut Rum gives me a huge boner. Just wanted to share.

I hope you're drinking it and not just looking at the bottles lustily.

[Khellendros]

I was. No more drinking now that I'm back to work. :(

[Aristotle]

In light of the fact that we're down to about 50% membership, may I PLEASE pick up a couple extra teams, so we could actually have more than 4 real fights each week?

[wiegeabo]

Just a reminder, voting ends on the 3rd, and the next set of matches start on the 4th.

[wiegeabo]

In light of the fact that we're down to about 50% membership, may I PLEASE pick up a couple extra teams, so we could actually have more than 4 real fights each week?

We've only lost 2 teams so far, the Last Chancers and Nameless Wonders.
Gog is still participating.
Mistress Gluon can still participate. And since she's been active in discussion, she should be able to get basic writeups up (hint, hint ;)).
X is the closest one to losing a team. (which would make 3)

[Khellendros]

If he gets an extra team and I don't there will be jihad.

[LouFerignoDemon]

We've only lost 2 teams so far, the Last Chancers and Nameless Wonders.
Gog is still participating.
Mistress Gluon can still participate. And since she's been active in discussion, she should be able to get basic writeups up (hint, hint ;)).
X is the closest one to losing a team. (which would make 3)


I'd love to, but switching between logic and anti logic thought patterns would kill me currently. x.x

As Harl knows, my life is all but ready to have me kill someone.

[Aristotle]

If he gets an extra team and I don't there will be jihad.I would never try to get an extra team, but keep one from you. Never ever ever. We are as brothers in the struggle.

[AnnoyingSilence]

i'm a brother? :(

[Ahura Mazda]

Hello everybody, I just got back from Marrakesh and I wish everyone a very happy new year. All the best to all of you.

On a side note, I spent one night in the desert in a tent and saw a sunrise on camel back. It is absolutely amazing and something I would recommend to everyone.

[Harlekin]

I'd love to, but switching between logic and anti logic thought patterns would kill me currently. x.x

As Harl knows, my life is all but ready to have me kill someone.
Yeah, I'd count out Mistress for a little while at least.

[Khellendros]

i'm a brother? :(
You are more like a retarded cousin we try to keep in the basement.

[wiegeabo]

Where all the votes at?! I think we've got, what, five? We should at least have 8-10. Especially since we're on the last day of voting.




This has been a friendly reminder by your benevolent, yet vengeful, commissioner. Have a nice day. :D

[Aristotle]

How could we have 8-10 votes when we only have 8 teams participating? That means at most we could only have 6 votes.

[wiegeabo]

I don't know why you think that. We have 12 owners, 10 of whom participate regularly. Only Who? didn't post a battle this week, but that doesn't mean he couldn't vote.

So we should be getting 8-10 votes depending on who's not voting on their own match.

[wiegeabo]

Seeing the total lack of lineups for week 8 which is supposed to start today, I'm going to hold off on starting our next matches.

[XFanTim]

Unfortunately I think this is about as good as we're going to do on votes this week.

Harl, LV, Ari, Nightwing, Wieg, and I all voted.

AS "abstained".:whatever:

Gog and Gluon both say they're super busy right now, and X has basically dropped off the face of the earth. Who? has been a no-show all week.

That leaves Ahura/Khell as the only ones I was expecting to vote who haven't, and apparently Ahura just got back from vacation.

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.

[wiegeabo]

No movement in the rankings this week. But there's heavy competition for that third spot in the Timely Conference, and for the lead spot in the National Conference.

[LadyVader]

Yeah, i can feel the pressure. :D

[wiegeabo]

With the end of this week, and with 2 matches of no participation, I'm declaring X's team as ownerless. He still has one week to reclaim his team, but his characters are available for free trade.

[Aristotle]

Yeehaw! Only two contested matches this week!

And next week, me and Nightwing are the ONLY contested match (better get some damn votes.) Week 10, we're back up to a whole three contested matches, back down to two for Week 11, back down to just ONE for Week 12, and closing it out strong in Week 13 with three.

[Nightwing.]

im against Ari next week????

oh man i might quit for that week......

[wiegeabo]

Week 8 matches posted. Revising the remaining schedule a bit:

Week 8: Jan. 6 - Jan. 15
Week 9: Jan. 16 - Jan. 25
Week 10: Jan. 26 - Feb. 4
Week 11: Feb. 5 - Feb. 14
Week 12: Feb. 15 - Feb. 24
Week 13: Feb. 25 - Mar. 5

[wiegeabo]

Hey, I've got a project for anyone who's got the time to help out.

We've got a list of characters at all four ranks at the start of the Rankings thread. What I'd like to do is add to that list. And what I'd really like is to get a link for all those characters so we can just copy/paste them.

So, could everyone start putting together lists? And as you start getting groups of characters together, just send me a pm. If it's just adding a link to a name, I'll do it. If it's new characters, I'll make sure there's no duplicates between everyone and post them in the rankings thread (so everyone can argue characters on a line).

[LadyVader]

With the end of this week, and with 2 matches of no participation, I'm declaring X's team as ownerless. He still has one week to reclaim his team, but his characters are available for free trade.

see transactions thread (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=13734136&postcount=666).

[Dark Gog]

Updated the Ares Respect Thread (http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,157134.msg2559080.html#msg2559080).


I've looked through the Respect Thread. It clarified some things, but I still have a few questions.

(1) How durable is he, both with and without his armor? Either in terms of how much damage it would take to put him down, or other characters who'd be comparable in durability.

With the exception of Io using his own blade against him (which he still recovered from quickly enough), he always seemed rather difficult to harm, and harder to keep down. Along the lines of an armored Hulk or (probably less sheerly durable than) Thanos in terms of general reseliency would be the closest comparison I can make, but I wouldn't necessarilly put that much stock in it.

(2) Has he actually been shown to shapeshift (beyond the line you quoted about Gods taking whatever shape they want), or have we just seen him change size?

To a limited extent. Before he went metro, his face was supposed to be hideous. You can also see him altering his armor between panels when he speaks to Circe, as well as having its aspect about him when he answers Medusa's challenge in the Themysciran embassy.

(3) Is he resistant to telepathy, or just "illusions"?

Circe felt the need to erase her own mind before dealing with Buchanan, so yes, I'd say there's more to it than just seeing through the physical. I don't think he's ever been attacked telepathically, but he's shown a wide array of psychic powers over the years, and seemingly a fair bit of power with them.

Phobos' powers were mostly psychic in nature (including the ability to manifest your greatest fears). It hardly seemed to do him any good.

On top of everything else, Olympians follow a different geometry than mortals. Olympus had to be abstracted to make proper sense to normal humans, although some super-heroes do seem to have gotten over the issue themselves.

(4) What exactly does Hades staff do? I'm not really sure how to interpret "devouring the stuff of life itself."

Unfortunately, those scans are pretty much all we have to go on, but Hades did seem to take Wonder Woman and Pegasus out of contention easily enough using it, without really going for the kill. Ares used it as a bludgeon an issue later. Other than that, the one power I know only Hades possessed was commanding the Bronze Doors of Tartarus.

Its effects don't seem to be permanent, and it didn't seem to boost Hades much, if at all.

I'm also still trying to get a sense of his strength level, specifically his strength level outside of Hades or Aeropagus and under normal conditions (not on the verge of World War III like in some of those scans). You described him as Class 100, but there's class 100 and class 100 if you know what I mean. Are we talking Superman level? Beyond Superman level?

It's difficult to say for certain, since he's generally fought less then fully established characters. The short answer would be probably a bit or more beyond the normal super-hero crowd (Superman, Orion, etc..).

It's worth noting that he's had three lasting power-ups since the Byrne days, first by merging with Mars, and then by expanding his portfolio and later taking Hades' place. After the last of which, he felt he had enough to spare to power Wonder Girl (Who's been doing surprisingly well recently vs. the Female Furies), power which going by Zeus's precedence, he can probably take back in a pinch.

[Ahura Mazda]

Unfortunately I think this is about as good as we're going to do on votes this week.

Harl, LV, Ari, Nightwing, Wieg, and I all voted.

AS "abstained".:whatever:

Gog and Gluon both say they're super busy right now, and X has basically dropped off the face of the earth. Who? has been a no-show all week.

That leaves Ahura/Khell as the only ones I was expecting to vote who haven't, and apparently Ahura just got back from vacation.

Sorry about that, I popped ionto the office to sort out something and then left for the weekend to do some skiing. My apologies for not voting.

[Aristotle]

im against Ari next week????

oh man i might quit for that week......Am I that much of a D-bag?

[Khellendros]

Am I that much of a D-bag?YES.

[LadyVader]

but... in a good way. :D

[Khellendros]

but... in a good way. :D...Nope, not gonna say it. Too easy.

[Aristotle]

...Nope, not gonna say it. Too easy.And saying "YES" wasn't?

[XFanTim]

No movement in the rankings this week. But there's heavy competition for that third spot in the Timely Conference, and for the lead spot in the National Conference.
Actually, Ahura/Khell have taken over the number one spot in the National Conference, since five wins a loss and a tie is better than five wins and two losses. I've bumped them to the top of the standings accordingly.

[XFanTim]

It's also worth noting, I think, that our esteemed Commissioner is undefeated in his battles with the top ranked team in each conference (having beaten me and tied Khell).

[Nightwing.]

Am I that much of a D-bag?

nah your one of the wildcards in this thing....your start to the season has been brilliant....which is what i fear

[Aristotle]

I don't know, Tim whupped my ass pretty good.

[wiegeabo]

Tim's whupped everybody's ass pretty good.

Sometimes he makes us like it. :(

[Aristotle]

I didn't like it. Liked it more than I liked that bull**** tie with AS, but so it goes.

[Khellendros]

Actually, Ahura/Khell have taken over the number one spot in the National Conference, since five wins a loss and a tie is better than five wins and two losses. I've bumped them to the top of the standings accordingly.
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

[Khellendros]

Question: how far away from the battlefield can someone be before they are considered to be out of bounds, or whatever? Mainly, how high can you get above the battlefield? Outer space? Lunar orbit? Within the atmosphere?

[wiegeabo]

It's kind of loose. For example, a Rayner/Surfer fight in the Blue Area of the Moon finished on the other side of the moon without anyone going out of bounds.


Generally, just don't violate the spirit of the battlefield. I guess a general rule could be whatever distance/location a character can't return from before the battle ends. So, for Captain America, teleporting him a few miles away might be enough. But teleporting the Surfer into orbit likely won't keep him away long enough.

[XFanTim]

I don't think there's "out of bounds" exactly as long as you don't leave the battlefield unoccupied. What I mean is, we've had people get teleported into other dimensions, flown into the sun etc. and they've always been allowed to return to the battlefield if they're able. But I'd think if one of your guys is off in another dimension and everyone else on your team is unconscious, then you've lost.

That said, if you have anyone within the atmosphere over the battlefield, I'd say you still have the field occupied.

[Harlekin]

Remember when we'd make new banners for every goddamn roster change?

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1293/bannergs0.jpg

Yeah.