Dream Team League (Discussion)

[XFanTim]

:wow:
:whatever:
:woot:
:cwink:

[wiegeabo]

:wow:
:whatever:
:woot:
:cwink:


Well played, sir. Well played.

:ikyn

[XFanTim]

Ok, an update:

Harl needs to vote thread 3.
AS needs to vote in thread 3.
Come on, guys, lets get this week done already. I'll even get you started:
I vote for XFanTim and . . . .
Then just flip a coin or something. I'm sure Wieg and Nightwing won't mind. ;)

[wiegeabo]

Come on, guys, lets get this week done already. I'll even get you started:

Then just flip a coin or something. I'm sure Wieg and Nightwing won't mind. ;)

I can live with that. Heads I win, tails Wing loses.

[Harlekin]

There, you guys happy? :p

[wiegeabo]

Very. Our deal is complete. You shall have my first born child.

[Harlekin]

She will be so delicious.

[Dark Gog]

Any details on the setting for this week?

And are we trying to detail all major powers and abilities for our characters, or just provide a basic run-down?

[wiegeabo]

Can't seem to find much good information on it.

Did find a pic. Looks like it could be just a massive ring to fight in. The stands are probably empty of anything useful. Don't know what the inner structure is like. Ahura probably knows everything about it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/laespadasalvajedehulk.jpg

[Ahura Mazda]

Can't seem to find much good information on it.

Did find a pic. Looks like it could be just a massive ring to fight in. The stands are probably empty of anything useful. Don't know what the inner structure is like. Ahura probably knows everything about it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/laespadasalvajedehulk.jpg

If any of you have seen the movie Gladiator think the Collisseum. Instead of lions in cages in underground passages there are monsters that can fight a weakenned Hulk and gladiator pens.

Is the area populated or not?

[Nightwing.]

There, you guys happy? :p

No....not at all....how could you? :csad:

[Aristotle]

If any of you have seen the movie Gladiator think the Collisseum. Instead of lions in cages in underground passages there are monsters that can fight a weakenned Hulk and gladiator pens.

Is the area populated or not?I would think unpopulated.

[wiegeabo]

Is there any technology in the ring, or is it basically just a big stadium?

[DTL Commish]

Voting is over.

I had to discount AS's votes because he didn't vote in thread 3.

[wiegeabo]

A little movement in the rankings this week. Probably the biggest news is that Lady Vader, through her ties and the tie-breaker, has moved into 2nd place over Who?.

And, looking at the magic numbers, Tim is just a single win away from the playoffs. The Immortals loss this week still means they're two wins away from a guaranteed playoff berth.

[wiegeabo]

Double Post

[XFanTim]

The Immortals loss this week still means they're two wins away from a guaranteed playoff berth.
But conveniently for Ahura/Khell, their next two games are against ownerless teams.

[Nightwing.]

God damnit i lost again....

I wish everyone would vote....its friggin ridiculous....a total of 5 votes in mine and Weig's battle....why did Gog decide not to vote?

I think there should be some kind of penalty for not voting....much like people get penalised for not providing descriptions there should be some kind of rule for not voting....something like if you dont vote in all threads you are automatically stuck with the previous weeks line up....

[wiegeabo]

But conveniently for Ahura/Khell, their next two games are against ownerless teams.

And now we know who to vote for. :up:

[LadyVader]

A little movement in the rankings this week. Probably the biggest news is that Lady Vader, through her ties and the tie-breaker, has moved into 2nd place over Who?.



Woo-hoo! Go me! Wait, I'm up against Tim this week?

Nevermind. :)

[wiegeabo]

I'm officially declaring Mistress Gluon and Who?'s teams as unowned. You can trade with those teams at will, just make sure they have a valid lineup when doing so.

[wiegeabo]

Battle threads are up.

[Ahura Mazda]

Is there any technology in the ring, or is it basically just a big stadium?

There were guns and such around but really not much tech outside of what people were wearing, plus the tech used for the trapdoors and such. Of course, it was never clear where the red king's armour as well as all the other weaponry was stored even though at least for the armour it was most likely to be stored at the palace.

It really was like a more advanced version of the collisseum.

f the area is unpopulated, and by this, I mean empty of all the monsters in the cages, then it is just fighting in the middle of an empty stadium.

[Khellendros]

Hey, folks. Turns out my continued sickness is due to developing a nasty case of cellulitis (Google if you're curious), which can be semi-serious, if I didn't start anti-biotics soon enough or it's a resistant strain. If things don't turn out well I may not make it next week, so this is me giving fair notice to all involved.

[Ahura Mazda]

Hey, folks. Turns out my continued sickness is due to developing a nasty case of cellulitis (Google if you're curious), which can be semi-serious, if I didn't start anti-biotics soon enough or it's a resistant strain. If things don't turn out well I may not make it next week, so this is me giving fair notice to all involved.

No problem; you take care of yourself and I will pick up the slack next week.

[AnnoyingSilence]

I had to discount AS's votes because he didn't vote in thread 3.sorry

[XFanTim]

Sorry to hear that, Khell. :(
Best wishes on a speedy recovery.

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now open

[wiegeabo]

Something I just thought about, the All-Star game!

For those that don't know, we usually have an all-star game the week after the Championship match. Basically, the best characters from all the teams are put together for a huge exhibition match (and lots of pride for the winner ;)).


The way it works is that everyone nominates characters from their team who deserve special recognition. At least one character from each ranking. Then, once the list is compiled, we all vote on which character in each rank/conference we think most deserve to be in the match.

Now, you may be thinking who gets to coach these teams. Well, the losing coaches from the Conference Championship matches do! That's right. If you lose in the last battle before the Championship, your consolation prize is to coach the All-Star team.


So, what does everyone think? Should we still do this? If so, we need to start considering nominations now. Then we can vote on them during the playoffs, and I'll announce the winning team/coaches during the last week after the Conference matches.

[XFanTim]

I like the All-Star game concept. But I'd like to make a few changes to the nomination process:

(1) I think anyone should be able to nominate a character from any team. In the past, not everyone has gotten their nominations in, so certain characters that we might all think were great didn't get included, just because their owner didn't bother to submit their name.

In fact, I'm tempted to say we should be able to nominate from all teams except our own -- that way, people really need to think about which character was used most impressively, rather than just trying to get everyone to recognize their own team's greatness.

(2) After the nominations are submitted, there should be an official time for people to make "speeches" in favor of their favorite candidates. By "speeches, I mean maybe write a few sentences about why that character is an All-Star. This would be a point where people could talk up their own character, even if we don't allow people to nominate their own team.

(3) I also think it should be made official that the criteria for picking an All-Star is how well they performed in their actual matches. It's not about who's the most powerful in the comics, it's about who was most impressive during the DTL season. So, for instance a "campaign speech" for a reg might involve re-capping how you used them to take down your opponent's uber in one of your matches.

That's probably the most important thing -- the All-Star selection process should be about remembering all the creative ways people used their characters during the season. That's a lot more fun than just writing down the names of the most powerful characters.

[Aristotle]

I'll agree with Tim on all points there.

[Dark Gog]

Shouldn't there be some advanced technology availbale on the battlefield? Namely the Controller Disks? How exactly did those work?

[Dark Gog]

I'll post a strat tomorrow.

[Dark Gog]

I do like the idea of an All-Star Game, and most of Tim's suggestions.

[wiegeabo]

I probably won't be able to vote until tomorrow night. (I'm training at work all day tomorrow, but I might get them in during lunch.)

[XFanTim]

New Banner :word:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~timphys/composite91c2.JPG

[Aristotle]

Vote, you bastards! VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTE!

[wiegeabo]

Vote, you bastards! VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTE!

They should use that in the Presidential election.

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.

[XFanTim]

You're missing a match from the Immortals record, and from B'wana Bet. Both only add up to 10 matches, when they should add to 11.

[wiegeabo]

A little shifting towards the top of both conferences. And, holy crap is the National Conference competitive.


As for magic numbers, we have our first two playoff teams. Both Tim and Who? are guaranteed playoff spots. And LV is just one win away from moving on herself.

As for the ultra-close National Conference, Ahura/Khell just need one more win. And X, Ari, and Gog all need two wins to move on to the post-season.

[XFanTim]

A little shifting towards the top of both conferences. And, holy crap is the National Conference competitive.


As for magic numbers, we have our first two playoff teams. Both Tim and Who? are guaranteed playoff spots. And LV is just one win away from moving on herself.

As for the ultra-close National Conference, Ahura/Khell just need one more win. And X, Ari, and Gog all need two wins to move on to the post-season.
Is that before or after correcting the error I note in the previous post?

[Aristotle]

OK LV, throw your match against me, and we both make it into the playoffs.

[wiegeabo]

You're missing a match from the Immortals record, and from B'wana Bet. Both only add up to 10 matches, when they should add to 11.

Fixed.

[wiegeabo]

Is that before or after correcting the error I note in the previous post?

we got lucky. The errors actually didn't change anything.

[Aristotle]

The trend of characters spontaneously manifesting important powers not listed in their descriptions pre-match is getting out of hand. I've complained about it before, nobody listened, and now it's lost me a match.

Read these descriptions:
"Ares (DU) - The Olympian God of War, Conflict, and Death, and gains power from all three. Possesses vast superhuman strength and durability, magical armor, the Staff of Hades (which devours life), and various mystical and devine powers, including energy-projection and interdimensional teleportation.
Lightray (DM) - Faster than light, superhuman strength and durability, energy conversion, and light manipulation. Lightray is highly-intelligent and possesses a Mother Box."

Show me where it says Lightray is an electropath, or Ares can spontaneously generate any element.

[wiegeabo]

An EMP is just energy. I don't see what's so far fetched about Lightray being able to generate an energetic pulse strong enough to short out tech. Even if it's not a typical EMP, the idea still works.

As for Ares, didn't Gog say that Ares killed New Gods and, so he could fight New Gods, had Radion in his weapons?

[XFanTim]

OK LV, throw your match against me, and we both make it into the playoffs.
I think you're good to go anyway. You're tied with X now. But you'll beat Who?'s ownerless team, so even if you lose to LV you'll go 1-1. Meanwhile, X will presumably lose to Ahura/Khell this week, and to me next week. So he'll go 0-2 to end the season, and you'll take the last playoff spot.

By beating X's ownerless team this week, the Immortals can also guarantee themselves the top seed in the National conference and a first round bye.

In other words, everyone's situation is better than their magic number indicates, because the magic numbers don't know X has two guaranteed losses coming up. (I'm too much of a perfectionist to blow off week 13, and Ahura/Khell will want to compete this week to wrap up their top seed.)

[XFanTim]

As for Ares, didn't Gog say that Ares killed New Gods and, so he could fight New Gods, had Radion in his weapons?Gog said Ares realm is full of radion (I have no personal knowledge one way or the other on this point), and had him use it in his weapons. He also mentioned that he'd killed New Gods before (for instance, he killed Izaya, right?) But I think these were two separate points. I don't think he actually claimed Ares had used radion weapons when killing New Gods.

[XFanTim]

As for magic numbers, we have our first two playoff teams. Both Tim and Who? are guaranteed playoff spots. And LV is just one win away from moving on herself.
I question this. Not the part about me being guaranteed a spot, that's true. (Besides, my last two games are against ownerless teams.)

But the part about Who. Right now it's:
Who? 8-3
LV 6-3-2
Wieg 5-3-3

Counting ties as half a win, the total number of wins are:
Who? 8
LV 7
Wieg 6.5

It seems like if Wieg and LV win their last two and Who? loses his last two, then they'll both jump over him. It also seems like 1 win isn't enough to ensure that LV makes it, because Wieg could jump her if he wins his last two.

Personally, I think we should exclude Who?'s team from the playoffs anyway, since they're ownerless. But it'd still be nice to see Wieg and LV make it in on their own merits.

[Aristotle]

An EMP is just energy. I don't see what's so far fetched about Lightray being able to generate an energetic pulse strong enough to short out tech. Even if it's not a typical EMP, the idea still works.That's not what Lightray does. He manipulates LIGHT energy. Not ALL energy. He has never shown, to my knowledge, any degree of electropathy. And I think it's really cheap of Gog to rely on powers that were never shown in the source material, essentially just making **** up, instead of actually sitting down and making a real strategy.

As for Ares, didn't Gog say that Ares killed New Gods and, so he could fight New Gods, had Radion in his weapons?Ares did kill Izaya. But not with Radion. In this fight, he supposedly beats Infinity-Man due to the miraculous (nowhere in the comics) supply of Radion that Hades is supposedly brimming with.

I'll remind you that Gog has not shown up since his writeup to defend his tactics. He just plopped them down (exceedingly late, to prevent any real debate) and reaped the benefits.

[wiegeabo]

I question this. Not the part about me being guaranteed a spot, that's true. (Besides, my last two games are against ownerless teams.)

But the part about Who. Right now it's:
Who? 8-3
LV 6-3-2
Wieg 5-3-3

Counting ties as half a win, the total number of wins are:
Who? 8
LV 7
Wieg 6.5

It seems like if Wieg and LV win their last two and Who? loses his last two, then they'll both jump over him. It also seems like 1 win isn't enough to ensure that LV makes it, because Wieg could jump her if he wins his last two.

Personally, I think we should exclude Who?'s team from the playoffs anyway, since they're ownerless. But it'd still be nice to see Wieg and LV make it in on their own merits.


You're right. I can technically beat Who? and LV by half a game.

[XFanTim]

You're right. I can technically beat Who? and LV by half a game.I think I deserve an instant win for the newfound hope I've given you.

In fact, I think I'd like it to be retroactively applied to our week 5 match. :)

[wiegeabo]

I think I deserve an instant win for the newfound hope I've given you.

In fact, I think I'd like it to be retroactively applied to our week 5 match. :)

But then I wouldn't make the playoffs, so I'd have to take back your win, which means I'd have to reward you with a retroactive win for pointing out I can make the playoffs, which means I wouldn't make the playoffs...



My god, I think you found the DTL version of the grandfather paradox. :wow:

[Harlekin]

Honestly, I thought I had a few more hours to vote. I've been crazy busy, lately, so apologies.

[LadyVader]

You're right. I can technically beat Who? and LV by half a game.

Well I'm definetely winning my next match but it's going to be war between me and Ari two weeks from now because he's currently on the 4th position in his own conference so he definetely needs to win at least ONE of his last 2 matches . Though this week he's up against Who? and since he s no longer active he will win, unless X wins again (since he's currently in the 3rd position) but I don't think so since he's up against The Immortals.

I'm getting a headache

[XFanTim]

Yeah, if we're viewing ownerless teams as serious competitors for playoff spots, then the Timely conference is the more interesting one, since LV and Wieg are both trailing Who? Also, LV and Wieg each have one more contested match -- Wieg against Gog this week and LV against Ari next week.

No one in National has anything to worry about, since X is only tied for third in the conference and is virtually certain to lose his last two games.

[XFanTim]

Are the new threads gonna be up soon? I've had my writeup done for like a week . . . (the advantage of facing an ownerless team, since they won't change their lineup)

[wiegeabo]

I'll get them up later today. They should have gone up last night, but this last couple of weeks has been crazy.

[Aristotle]

Though this week he's up against Who? and since he s no longer active he will winDon't worry. Who? will show up, reclaim his team, and bust out a character who has the power to insta-kill all ubers while remaining under the tuber bar.

[wiegeabo]

Battles are posted.

[wiegeabo]

Is Freedom Beast's mind control limited to animals and the chimera he creates, or does it extend to people too?

[Aristotle]

Gog writes him as having telepathy over advanced superhumans, and he gets away with it, so I suppose that's how Freedom Beast is in the DTL, at any rate.

Of course, Gog gets away with whatever bull**** he wants, apparently, so perhaps that's an unfair standard.

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

[Nightwing.]

Is Turtle officially Uber?

Cos in my line up on the update thread hes still a medium and its been changed since the Turtle debate cos Zauriel is up there......

[Nightwing.]

oops double post

[XFanTim]

Is Turtle officially Uber?

Cos in my line up on the update thread hes still a medium and its been changed since the Turtle debate cos Zauriel is up there......
Yeah, Wieg ruled he's uber. He's listed as uber now, so I guess Wieg just got around to updating it.

[wiegeabo]

Well, here we are. The last week of the regular season will be starting in a couple of days. And something important happens once the post-season starts. Our rosters are locked down. No more trades or pick-ups. The roster you take into the playoffs is the one you will use the whole time.

So, start figuring out who you want to take into the next round. Because once week 13 is over, everything is locked down.

[Nightwing.]

this is jumping the gun abit but when it comes to next season can we keep our teams?

Its just ive probably spent most of the season finding a team im happy with and to have to do all that again is gonna be annoying to say the least.

[wiegeabo]

Some info about the eXiles Panoptichron for week 13.


It's a massive crystal citadel with technology so advanced, very few can use it (especially if your not a member of the eXiles during the time they have control of it). An example of the technology is the ability to view and travel between dimensions.

The citadel is huge palace. Even the eXiles haven't explored it all. There are tons of rooms, corridors, and areas. Even rooms which appear to contain pocket dimensions like the massive dessert room and ocean room.

One of the more disturbing features is the wall of fallen eXiles containing all the characters the Time Breakers used who died.


Here's some pictures of various parts of the Panoptichron.

http://www.comicvine.com/panoptichron/42089/costumes/&c=16764

[Khellendros]

this is jumping the gun abit but when it comes to next season can we keep our teams?

Its just ive probably spent most of the season finding a team im happy with and to have to do all that again is gonna be annoying to say the least.I vote no, otherwise there may be an issue of a custody battle between me and Ahura, since I'll have my own team next season.

[wiegeabo]

I'm not sure how keeping our teams would be fair to any new owners. We may have to have a new draft every season (unless we get a stable set of owners).

[Harlekin]

We used to keep our teams from season to season.

[Nightwing.]

I'm not sure how keeping our teams would be fair to any new owners. We may have to have a new draft every season (unless we get a stable set of owners).

We used to keep our teams from season to season.

Exactly...its not fair that the stable set of us have to keep redrafting.

Its nothing different to previous seasons to keep our characters. Its not like there isnt a large selection of different characters still out there for new comers. Why should we have to give up our teams?

[XFanTim]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there wasn't a redraft between seasons two and three, at least.

A compromise proposal would be to let everyone hang on to some of their team (say, their six favorites) and then do a redraft to fill the other spots.

Personally, though, I'm not really sure that's necessary. There are still plenty of good characters that a new owner could claim, especially considering the fact that they can grab anyone from the ownerless teams as well. Plus, having a draft take up a lot of time (mostly waiting for everyone to get draft lists in), time which could be better spent getting the new season underway.

[Nightwing.]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there wasn't a redraft between seasons two and three, at least.

A compromise proposal would be to let everyone hang on to some of their team (say, their six favorites) and then do a redraft to fill the other spots.

Personally, though, I'm not really sure that's necessary. There are still plenty of good characters that a new owner could claim, especially considering the fact that they can grab anyone from the ownerless teams as well. Plus, having a draft take up a lot of time (mostly waiting for everyone to get draft lists in), time which could be better spent getting the new season underway.

I agree. All the seasons that I was in and the ones that Union Jack were in never had us required to redraft. The redraft took far too long and I think that was partly responsible for the earlier folk dropping out. I think Corp was narked that he never got his entire team.

I think the option to change/redraft should be put in place atleast.

[Aristotle]

On the one hand, there is definitely still a set of serviceable characters out there: quite a few of them are on ownerless rosters at the moment. However, that may demonstrate the fact that they are the dregs, and I think this is true. They are the ones that none of us wanted, or we could have had them. In order to find really good new characters for teams, people are going to have to go searching for obscurities. That may not be fair to new owners.

However, it's also hardly fair to an owner to take away his or her (in many cases hard-won) characters. It's a difficult issue.

I guess I would probably err on the side of owners keeping characters, because I have really come to enjoy my roster, but I can see the other side as well.

[XFanTim]

Would you really say they're the ones none of us wanted? More like the ones we wanted marginally less than the guys we've got. There's plenty of characters I would gladly pick up if I only had a few more roster spots.

The other thing to consider is we'll probably have some people who participated this season drop out before next season. So that frees up even more characters for new owners to claim.

[Aristotle]

I'm not sure why we're all so certain we'll have new owners, frankly. We can't even hold on to the ones we have currently. Who's leaving at the end of this season?

I half-wonder if there's going to BE a next season, really.

[Khellendros]

I say we get first dibs on, say, one or two of each category from our old team, then we have to draft new half of the next team.

[Aristotle]

I'm more and more leaning away from redrafting. If we really are gonna lose owners after this season, that does free up a lot of characters, and I don't quite see it being necessary for us to drop anybody.

Plus, it creates that custody battle between you and Ahura.

[wiegeabo]

I'm not sure why we're all so certain we'll have new owners, frankly. We can't even hold on to the ones we have currently. Who's leaving at the end of this season?

I half-wonder if there's going to BE a next season, really.


They'll be another season when it's time to have another season. If it's 3 months, 6 months, or a year. When there's enough interest, we'll have one.

I'd also be in favor of having fewer teams with more co-ownership if that keeps participation up.

[Nightwing.]

I dont think the characters left are 'unwanted' as such. They are just the ones either we dont find as useful, dont know much about or just dont have enough spots to put all the characters we do want in.

The redraft is a stupid idea....I was against it this time round and to be honest it would be a deciding factor on whether I participate in next season if im forced to repick an entire team.

Letting people keep their teams,even with new players, will leave plenty of perfectly capable and effective characters to create unstoppable teams for the new season.

And its not necessarily who the characters are but more how they are written/debated that makes a winning team.

Im 100% against a redraft.

And I feel my participation is up enough to not require a co-ownership with another player for my team. But if it helps others then yes I think a team up is ideal for those.

Maybe AS could form with his bro in law Jewish Hobbit and he could make a return.

Hopefully Corp could come back...and X...we dont know.but making drastic changes like having new teams each season will just ruin the whole tournament.

You dont see teams like Liverpool getting a complete new team each season. Or the Lakers (different sports i know but im making a point).

[wiegeabo]

The redraft was necessary this time around because it had been so long since we had any real participation. I don't even count season 4 because the participation started failing about half way through.

And it would have been much harder to get new owners if they had to go against already established teams. Besides, you said yourself you're pretty happy with your team now, so the draft couldn't have been that big a deal.

[Khellendros]

Well speaking for myself, there were a ton of unused characters I wanted to get at, but didn't because I didn't want to throw my current team in upheaval over. Partly because it's not just MY team, and partly because I just assumed we'd draft all over next season and I could rebuild from the ground up.

[Aristotle]

Well you can keep half the guys on your team, and then pick up some of those unused ones.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, even if we keep our teams there's no rule you can't replace half your guys if you want to.

As far as how the league is doing, it's definitely doing better than the end of season 4, when I personally didn't think there'd ever be another season. Now we at least have a solid core that participates every week.

[Aristotle]

I think I'm solidly voting no against the redraft. Tough **** for guys like Khel and Ahura, who'll have to redraft at least half a team regardless, but that's the way it goes. They've had a hell of a run with a stacked team, a team that in my opinion has had at least one tuber, and at times more, since I joined the League. If Khel feels wronged by being the only one who has to start from scratch, I guess I don't have much sympathy for the dude that rolls with Stark Supreme, Xavier Juggernaut, and until recently, Superman One-Million.

[Aristotle]

Also, did we ever decide on postseason battlegrounds? A landfill in Marvel New York City? An executive office building in Gotham City? Interstate 35 in the real world?

[Ahura Mazda]

Well speaking for myself, there were a ton of unused characters I wanted to get at, but didn't because I didn't want to throw my current team in upheaval over. Partly because it's not just MY team, and partly because I just assumed we'd draft all over next season and I could rebuild from the ground up.

Khell feel free to do what you want with the team as I am not attached to any of our combattants even though I do think we have a few very good ones.

[Nightwing.]

The redraft was necessary this time around because it had been so long since we had any real participation. I don't even count season 4 because the participation started failing about half way through.

And it would have been much harder to get new owners if they had to go against already established teams. Besides, you said yourself you're pretty happy with your team now, so the draft couldn't have been that big a deal.

Im happy with my team because ive managed to get everyone I had last time with the exception of a few extras.

It took a while to get this team

[XFanTim]

We were actually able to get some new owners even once the season had started (Aristotle, for instance), so it doesn't seem like they minded too much going against established teams.

Really, there's just a ridiculous number of good characters still available. If I had to make a new team right now, I could get:

Dr. Strange (MU)
Takion (DU)
Aza Chorn (MU)
Johnny Sorrow (DU)
Super-Skrull (MM)
Iceman (Age of Apocalypse) (MM)
Bloodstorm (Mutant X) (MM)
Invisible Woman (MM)
Ghost Rider (MR)
Magik 2 (MR)
Carnage (MR)
Blink (MR)

I think I could be competitive with that team -- and that's just the first 4 good available characters at each rank that I could think of, putting zero thought into it.

[Nightwing.]

There are loads of decent characters out there....

Dr. Strange/Man-Thing (MU)
Jean Grey (MU)
Superman (DU)
Thor (MU)
Gambit (Enhanced) (MM)
Cosmic King (DM)
Quiksilver (MM)
Psylocke (TK or TP) (MR)
Cyclops (MR)
Spiderman (MR)
Booster Gold (DR)
Star Girl (DR)

I have kinda nearly convinced myself for two possible characters that I might pick up ha ha

[XFanTim]

Is it just me, or did we have zero contested matches this week?

The Immortals-----X (ownerless)
Team Alpha Wolf Squadron-----The Nameless Wonders (ownerless)
Deadpool's Harem-----Mistress Gluon (ownerless)
The Deadly Dozen-----Last Chancers (ownerless)
Heroes of the New Age-----In Jesus' Name (no writeup)
Chaos & Order-----B'wana Bet? (no writeup)
The Authorititans-----Who? (ownerless)

[XFanTim]

Even though the week isn't over, it's clear how the matches are going, so here's an unofficial update on the playoff races. Keep in mind, your ranking is determined by your total wins plus half your total ties.

TIMELY CONFERENCE
The Deadly Dozen 11-1
Deadpool's Harem 7-3-2
Who? 8-4
Chaos&Order 6-3-3

NATIONAL CONFERENCE
The Immortals 9-2-1
The Authorititans 7-4-1
B'wana Bet? 7-5
X 6-5-1

The Deadly Dozen and the Immortals have the top spots in their respective conferences wrapped up.

With a win and losses by the two teams ahead of him, Ari moves into second place in the National Conference. (7.5 points versus 7 for Gog and 6.5 for X.) He makes the playoffs if he wins his last match, or if either X or Gog loses. But X is playing me this week, so Ari has nothing to worry about.

Gog either needs to win or to have X lose this week to make the playoffs. But again, I should have no trouble beating X's ownerless team, so Gog is in.

LadyVader is actually tied with Who? at 8 points, but I believe she's racked up enough votes this week to move ahead of him on the basis of vote percentage. Wieg is in fouth place in the conference with 7.5 points.

Now here's where things get really interesting. Who? plays Wieg in the final week. As long as one of them loses, LadyVader moves on to the playoffs (unless somehow Who? gained enough points while losing to pass her in the vote totals). Additionally, the winner of Wieg vs. Who? moves on to the playoffs. But if somehow Wieg and Who? were to tie and LadyVader were to lose, then Who? would be back ahead of her and Wieg could potentially move ahead of her on the basis of vote percentage.

So if Wieg were really devious, he could not do a writeup, and hope to tie while still getting enough points to pass LV, thereby giving himself a first round playoff match with an ownerless team. Of course, the whole evil plan blows up in his face if LV wins her final match against Ari, guaranteeing her a playoff spot. So realistically, Wieg will show up and obliterate the ownerless Who?, and Wieg and LV both move on.

In short, if Wieg and I beat Who? and X, respectively, in the final week, then the playoff matches will be

Round 1
Wieg vs. LV
Ari vs. Gog

Round 2
Tim vs. [winner of Wieg vs. LV]
Ahura/Khell vs. [winner of Ari vs. Gog]

Round 3
[winner of Tim vs. [winner of Wieg vs. LV]] vs. [winner of Ahura/Khell vs. [winner of Ari vs. Gog]]

[LadyVader]

So if Wieg were really devious, he could not do a writeup, and hope to tie while still getting enough points to pass LV, thereby giving himself a first round playoff match with an ownerless team.

Wieg wouldn't stab me in the back like that! After all the promises I made of sexual favours...

that I didn't deliver on...

Oh snap.

[wiegeabo]

Wieg wouldn't stab me in the back like that! After all the promises I made of sexual favours...

that I didn't deliver on...

Oh snap.


*sounds of knife being sharpened*


What's going on?

[LadyVader]

Hey wieg.

http://friends4advait.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/1frnag98.jpg

How ya doin'? :D

[Aristotle]

I love it. Gog skips every match but the ones he plays against me. Beautiful.

[Khellendros]

I love it. Gog skips every match but the ones he plays against me. Beautiful.Your growing bitterness over all this amuses me to no end.

[Aristotle]

It's not growing, it's receding. I just think it's great that the one time Gog has shown up, almost the only time he's shown up since I've joined the League, is the time he had to fight me. And probably he'll show up again for our playoff match. And probably he'll make some **** up again. And probably he'll get votes for it again.

[Aristotle]

How long do we get between the last match and the start of the postseason to finalize rosters?

[Harlekin]

Funny. Dark Gog showed up for my battle too.

[wiegeabo]

Since we'll have the entire 13th week to finalize our playoff rosters, we just need to decide how long between season and post-season. I'm figuring a day or two depending on everyone's schedule (since I want maximum participation).

[Aristotle]

Yeah, two days sounds good.

[XFanTim]

It's not growing, it's receding. I just think it's great that the one time Gog has shown up, almost the only time he's shown up since I've joined the League, is the time he had to fight me. And probably he'll show up again for our playoff match. And probably he'll make some **** up again. And probably he'll get votes for it again.Scanning over the last few weeks, he participated against Ahura/Khell, me, Gluon, X . . . often a bit late but he did get something up. And like I said in your battle thread this week, both your writeups had flaws. It's not like everyone just said "Ari's writeup is great and Gog's is total BS -- let's vote for Gog!"

[Aristotle]

And like I've said, I just feel that Gog's flaws got a free pass, and mine got scrutinized. I'm not saying anybody did it on purpose. It was just very frustrating that he got away with it.

[wiegeabo]

So what happens after week 13's battles?

Are we all retired to our normal lives and left to wait for the new season (obviously we need to vote in the playoff matches etc)


Pretty much. Although everyone should start nominating All-Star characters.

Basically, to nominate a character, it cannot be one from your team, and it has to be one that you feel was a real standout character during the season. A brief sentence or two why would also be nice. PM nominations to me, I'll put together a list, and post it for voting. Also, if you could separate the characters by the conference they were in, that would be very helpful.


And while we're talking about the All-Star game, I had an idea to boost participation. How about, for this match, the owners of the All-Star characters get to help the All-Star coach with ideas for the writeup? The coach still has to write it up, but they could use or ignore any ideas pm'd them by the other owners. The only problem I see is that it may become too easy to become biased and vote for your team because you helped with it. But since it's just an exhibition match, that might not be such a big deal.

[wiegeabo]

Ok, voting update since I'll be closing it tomorrow:

Harl needs to vote in Thread 3.
LV needs to vote in all Threads.
Gog needs to vote in all Threads.

[Khellendros]

And while we're talking about the All-Star game, I had an idea to boost participation. How about, for this match, the owners of the All-Star characters get to help the All-Star coach with ideas for the writeup? The coach still has to write it up, but they could use or ignore any ideas pm'd them by the other owners. The only problem I see is that it may become too easy to become biased and vote for your team because you helped with it. But since it's just an exhibition match, that might not be such a big deal.HAHAHA! Oh, yes. I like this idea very much.

[LadyVader]

Done voting. :D

[wiegeabo]

Done voting. :D

:up:

[XFanTim]

Yeah, I like the idea of owners offering suggestions. In the past we've sometimes had problems where the all-star coach just didn't know how to use certain characters, since they weren't the ones he's used to writing.

[Aristotle]

I don't know, I think it's going to cause too much biased voting, which there will already be too much of since we're all basically members of one team or the other. We don't need to add to that.

On another note: I move that we start a recruitment drive after the final match ends. Each currently active owner should try (really try) to bring in at least one new owner, hopefully someone committed to sticking with the team. The new owners would get a chance to watch a little playoff action and get an idea of how it's done, and then we'd be ready to roll for a new season right on the heels of the All-Star game.

[wiegeabo]

I don't know, I think it's going to cause too much biased voting, which there will already be too much of since we're all basically members of one team or the other. We don't need to add to that.

On another note: I move that we start a recruitment drive after the final match ends. Each currently active owner should try (really try) to bring in at least one new owner, hopefully someone committed to sticking with the team. The new owners would get a chance to watch a little playoff action and get an idea of how it's done, and then we'd be ready to roll for a new season right on the heels of the All-Star game.


People have been pretty good about the All-Star voting before, so it might not be a big deal. We could also limit the help to only those owners whose characters are actually made the team.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, if it's just people giving suggestions about how to use their own characters, I don't think it necessarily makes them any more biased then they already would be just because they like their characters.

[wiegeabo]

So, the rest of those missing votes in yet. ;)

[Nightwing.]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Randomtask124124/Avatars/HOTNATeam.gif

Check out what I made :woot:

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over

Harl didn't get votes in the thread 3, so I couldn't count his. But it didn't make any difference.

[wiegeabo]

Ok, the last magic number update.

The Deadly Dozens are our Timely Conference Champions (although Tim secured that before this week). But The Immortals are now our new National Conference Champions. This means that both teams get a first round bye in the playoffs, automatically moving on to the Conference Championship match.

LV and Who? are just 1 win from securing their Timely playoff spots. Although, technically, I can still move ahead of both of them.

Similarly, Ari and Gog are just 1 win from their National playoff spots. Although, technically, X can still move ahead of both of them.

[LadyVader]

When are you gonna put the next matches up, wieg?

[wiegeabo]

Never! HAHAHAHAHA!!!


...


...fine, I'll do it now...

[Nightwing.]

Does Panther have the Ebony Blade, the super computer and his energy dagger or did he aquire them after the start of the season?

What powers and strength levels did quasar have before he inherited the bands?

[Harlekin]

- Panther has all of that. He's had the 'super computer' and energy dagger since Priest's run.
- Quasar was just a normal human before gaining the bands, although he did have SHIELD training.

[Nightwing.]

So it sthe bands that make him who he is?

Without it is he just a hand to hand combat guy?

Adn what does Panther's super computer actually do?

[Harlekin]

So it sthe bands that make him who he is?

Without it is he just a hand to hand combat guy?

Adn what does Panther's super computer actually do?
Yep, without the bands he's just Wendell Vaughn. Of course, it's near impossible to separate Quasar from them.

The computer, at least, I'm assuming you're referring to his Kimiyo card, just has a few standard applications. It's mostly a knowledge tool. It gives Panther a few hacking abilities, and access to his files in Wakanda. He can also use it to track people he's marked with his energy daggers.

[Nightwing.]

Yep, without the bands he's just Wendell Vaughn. Of course, it's near impossible to separate Quasar from them.

The computer, at least, I'm assuming you're referring to his Kimiyo card, just has a few standard applications. It's mostly a knowledge tool. It gives Panther a few hacking abilities, and access to his files in Wakanda. He can also use it to track people he's marked with his energy daggers.

Near impossible but not completely impossible...

would his card be able to hack the eXiles tech?

[Harlekin]

Nah. Too alien most likely. Give BP a spin at the machines and he'll figure them out soon enough though.

[Nightwing.]

Is he skilled enough to tackle the eXiles computers?

Thought it was only the eXiles who could use it?

[Harlekin]

Yeah, definitely.

And no, anyone that's in the Panoptichron has access to those computers. It's how Hyperion ****ed it all up. You just need to figure out how to do it.

[Nightwing.]

ah i see...

well i havent got anyone skilled enough to do that but what kind of defense systems does the place have?

[wiegeabo]

ah i see...

well i havent got anyone skilled enough to do that but what kind of defense systems does the place have?

I don't remember ever seeing any defenses.

[Harlekin]

As far as I can recall, the Panoptichron has no defences, except the jittery little bugs that used to run the place. They're quite weak though, and they should be gone.

[Nightwing.]

so what would be the point of hacking the system then?

[LadyVader]

Monitoring the other team's position? Maybe? :)

[wiegeabo]

Or teleporting them away. Although I think you have to actually get them in the teleporter for that to work.

[Nightwing.]

so its kinda useless then yes?

[LadyVader]

That'd be a dirty trick if you ask me. Now using the teleporters to get something you might need from a certain dimension, that's another thing entirely. :D

Useless? Half the fight is getting the jump on your oponent! Not useless at all.

[wiegeabo]

That'd be a dirty trick if you ask me. Now using the teleporters to get something you might need from a certain dimension, that's another thing. :D

...interesting...

[Nightwing.]

Dont give people ideas LV.....

[wiegeabo]

*quietly changes lineup*

[Nightwing.]

hmm i wish i knew that but i dont think i need outside tech to win this one....

i got some strategies which could work in my favour

[Aristotle]

Regarding the Panoptichron tech: I personally will not be voting based on someone using it. They shouldn't be able to. They would need a lot longer than a day to figure it out.

[XFanTim]

I don't know, I feel like it depends on the character. How long did it take Heather Hudson to figure it out in the comics? Because I'd say there are characters in the DTL who are orders of magnitude smarter than Heather.

[Aristotle]

Took her more than a day, I thought. And even so, I feel like the way it was described in the comics was, "holy **** this tech would take a long effing time to figure out."

[Aristotle]

Is it fair to assume that for Black Alice to steal a powerset, she has to be in the same reality as her target? That's the assumption I'm operating on, and I think it's pretty reasonable, but I'm concerned that people won't agree with me.

[XFanTim]

Back in season 3 I thought we played it that she could only steal from people on the battlefield, but I don't know if that's still the rule. Wieg?

[wiegeabo]

Back in season 3 I thought we played it that she could only steal from people on the battlefield, but I don't know if that's still the rule. Wieg?

That's not how it was played (under JB's reign), but that's how I always wanted it interpreted. The problem is, how effective can she be if your opponents don't use a supernatural fighter. Of course, that would really be Alice's owner's problem.

[Aristotle]

Here's how I see it: if Black Alice is in a DCU battlefield, all the DCU magic-users are at her disposal. If Black Alice is in a MU battlefield, all the MU magic-users are at her disposal. But if she's outside space and time, her only resource can be magic-users on-site.

Now, one could argue that the DTL itself is outside space and time, but there's NO argument that Panoptichron is.

[XFanTim]

That's not how it was played (under JB's reign), but that's how I always wanted it interpreted. The problem is, how effective can she be if your opponents don't use a supernatural fighter. Of course, that would really be Alice's owner's problem.I always thought the main virtue of Black Alice is you can use her to trump your opponent's uber mage. No one can force her owner to use her against a magic-free lineup.

My reasoning was always that if other characters (besides the 10 match participants) cease to exist for the battle, then you shouldn't be able to use them for the battle. E.g., just because a battle takes place in Metropolis doesn't mean you can steal from Dr. Fate, because there is no Dr. Fate on that world. It's Metropolis on a DC earth containing a total of 10 people. (Technically, we've never said that the population is removed from the area outside the battlefield, but it would be a little weird to have other characters showing up just because you strayed outside the battleground.)

But if there's never been an official ruling on it, I guess it's just up to Ari and LV to debate. Although at this point I'm not sure if LV is actually planning to try to use the powers of someone from outside the battleground.

[Khellendros]

I like the idea of restricting her to that universe's magic folks.

[Aristotle]

But if there's never been an official ruling on it, I guess it's just up to Ari and LV to debate. Although at this point I'm not sure if LV is actually planning to try to use the powers of someone from outside the battleground.If she can't use anyone from outside the battleground, and battlegrounds themselves are always unpopulated, then it seems clear to me she's got no one to use.

[Nightwing.]

Write up is up Set 3

[Aristotle]

Just a quick question. As some of you may know, in my current match, the question of Black Alice power-stealing Aztek's helmet has become key. However, it seems to me like in the Rankings thread we all agreed that power-stealing IS an attack, which would mean that LadyVader is having her uber attack my med without provocation.

Am I wrong in assuming that this is illegal? I want to get feedback on this, which is why it's here instead of in my match thread. If my understanding of the rules is wrong, I want to abandon that line of argumentation so I can argue something more correct, based on the rules. But if I'm right, and a power-steal IS an attack, then I'd also like to know that so I can continue to push the point.

[Khellendros]

WAS power stealing decided to be an attack? Seems like it would be, since the Uber is basically taking an action that directly harms the lower ranked character.

[LadyVader]

1. Harm is a pretty strong word.
2. In this case I simply had no other alternative but to attack one of my own team mates. I will use the snot analogy here too because I like saying the word:

If somebody (a reg or a med) can be killed by snot, and I just happen to have a snot monster on my team that is an uber than by golly, it shall rain with snot.

[Ahura Mazda]

Yes but if you are not allowed then you have to wait it out until both of the other ubers are gone. Those are the rules.

[LadyVader]

That has absolutely no sense in the current situation. Black Alice can't do anything else except steal magic. It's not like I can throw her into battle as a 16 year old powerless kid.

[Nightwing.]

Yeah that doesnt seem like an attack. She took a helmet off someone. Thats all

[Aristotle]

1. Harm is a pretty strong word.Leaving him completely powerless against a squad of metahumans? Yeah, that's an attack.

2. In this case I simply had no other alternative but to attack one of my own team mates.YOU SHOULD HAVE CHOSEN A DIFFERENT CHARACTER.

[Aristotle]

That has absolutely no sense in the current situation. Black Alice can't do anything else except steal magic. It's not like I can throw her into battle as a 16 year old powerless kid.You shouldn't have chosen her for a battle she was useless in then.

Yeah that doesnt seem like an attack. She took a helmet off someone. Thats allCompletely stealing his power! How is that not an attack? YOU JUST GOT DONE SAYING LIBRA WAS TUBER BECAUSE OF HIS POWER-STEAL ATTACK!

[Nightwing.]

Completely stealing his power! How is that not an attack? YOU JUST GOT DONE SAYING LIBRA WAS TUBER BECAUSE OF HIS POWER-STEAL ATTACK!


first of all i said that not LV and second of all i said he was Tuber if he had the JLA powers and the power stealers.With just the power stealers i said he was useless...

[Aristotle]

A character is almost never tuber because of his defense, since he can still be immobilized or removed. A character is tubered because of his offense, and your judgment of Libra as tuber demonstrates that you believed his power-steal is an attack.

Furthermore, the ONLY reason Libra is allowed (if he is) is because he CAN'T use his power-steal on non-ubers unless provoked, BECAUSE it is an attack.

[DTL Commish]

Fogot to do this yesterday.

Voting is now open.

[Nightwing.]

A character is almost never tuber because of his defense, since he can still be immobilized or removed. A character is tubered because of his offense, and your judgment of Libra as tuber demonstrates that you believed his power-steal is an attack.

Furthermore, the ONLY reason Libra is allowed (if he is) is because he CAN'T use his power-steal on non-ubers unless provoked, BECAUSE it is an attack.

Zeitgeist was Tubered due to defense not attack

And Libra with JLA half powers makes him still uber in areas add that to the full list and you have a line scrapping uber if not tuber...give him the ability to steal the power off someone else on the field and you have your tuber right there.

[LadyVader]

You shouldn't have chosen her for a battle she was useless in then.

Initially I wanted to use Duke of Oil to control the teleporters and teleport Alice to the 616 dimension to channel Ghost Rider but I knew you'd s#%t a brick trying to argue that no way could Duke of Oil have that minute of a control over the technology there.

So i picked this route. Why? Because it is LOGICAL! It makes sense! It's perfectly reasonable for Black Alice to channel Aztek. If a character has a particular weakness than it makes sense for any character on my team to exploit that weakness. In this case it's not only about that, it is pretty much the only way to involve Black Alice in the fight. This situation is not the kind of situation the rule was created for.

Furthermore it's not even an attack on Aztek! It's an attack on Superman Prime using Aztek's helmet. :D When Black Alice would be done he'd get his helmet back. If he would still be alive that is. :)

[Aristotle]

Initially I wanted to use Duke of Oil to control the teleporters and teleport Alice to the 616 dimension to channel Ghost Rider but I knew you'd s#%t a brick trying to argue that no way could Duke of Oil have that minute of a control over the technology there.Good call. Because there IS no way Duke of Oil would have that high-level control over Panoptichron. You should have kept going with that line of thought and picked one of your more useful ubers.

So i picked this route. Why? Because it is LOGICAL! It makes sense! It's perfectly reasonable for Black Alice to channel Aztek.It's also very logical and sensible for Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime to annihilate everyone on your team except Thordis at superspeed, but they don't do that because it's against the rules.

If a character has a particular weakness than it makes sense for any character on my team to exploit that weakness.Most characters have a weakness to Superman-Prime's fists. That doesn't mean I'm gonna wipe out your regs and your med in the blink of an eye just because I can.

In this case it's not only about that, it is pretty much the only way to involve Black Alice in the fight.You shouldn't have used her if the only way to make her useful was to break the rule.

Furthermore it's not even an attack on Aztek! It's an attack on Superman Prime using Aztek's helmet. :D When Black Alice would be done he'd get his helmet back. If he would still be alive that is. :)Leaving Aztek completely powerless and vulnerable is an attack.

[LadyVader]

Careful, your man crush on Superman Prime is starting to show. :)

Any-hoo, I already explained why I HAD to use Black Alice in this match in our battle thread. You know, where the votes are gonna be? :D

It's also very logical and sensible for Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime to annihilate everyone on your team except Thordis at superspeed, but they don't do that because it's against the rules.

Most characters have a weakness to Superman-Prime's fists. That doesn't mean I'm gonna wipe out your regs and your med in the blink of an eye just because I can.

See? THIS IS PRECISELY the kind of stuff the rule WAS created for to prevent all powerful all knowing all doing all encompasing ubers from completely destroying other teams. Not situations like I found myself in, where I simply had to use Black Alice and make it work somehow, but obviously not in a violent way like you're describing right now. I generally obeyed the rule this season but this match I had no other choice nor do I regret using that strategy and I certainly don't regret using it against you Mr. "I have 8 freakin ubers on my roster".

Leaving Aztek completely powerless and vulnerable is an attack.

Soon you're gonna add raped to that list, aren't you?

I really don't care what happens. This is fun. :)

[Aristotle]

Careful, your man crush on Superman Prime is starting to show. :) Nonsense, one of the only times I have ever actually vocalized my approval at a work of fiction was when he bit it in Countdown.

Any-hoo, I already explained why I HAD to use Black Alice in this match in our battle thread. You know, where the votes are gonna be? :DIf you had to use Black Alice (which I suspect was not actually the case), then that's rough, but it's life. She had no eligible targets except Thordis.

See? THIS IS PRECISELY the kind of stuff the rule WAS created for to prevent all powerful all knowing all doing all encompasing ubers from completely destroying other teams. Not situations like I found myself in, where I simply had to use Black Alice and make it work somehow, but obviously not in a violent way like you're describing right now. I generally obeyed the rule this season but this match I had no other choice nor do I regret using that strategyA rule is a rule! You don't just get to decide when and where it applies! An uber cannot attack a med unless provoked. End of conversation.

I certainly don't regret using it against you Mr. "I have 8 freakin ubers on my roster".It seems you've been looking forward to making that particular point in this battle for awhile. Again, I made that choice for calculated reasons, and I knew the risk. I'm living with my choice, but you don't seem to be living with yours. You're trying to bend rules now just because you "had no choice" but to break them.

This is fun. :)Verily, I agree. No hard feelings, I trust?

[LadyVader]

Nonsense, one of the only times I have ever actually vocalized my approval at a work of fiction was when he bit it in Countdown.

Mental note, must read countdown.

If you had to use Black Alice (which I suspect was not actually the case), then that's rough, but it's life. She had no eligible targets except Thordis.

Wait, you mean there's no rule agains't attacking your own teammates?

A rule is a rule! You don't just get to decide when and where it applies! An uber cannot attack a med unless provoked. End of conversation.

What a black and white world you live in.

Fine, Aztek flipped Black Alice the bird. You happy now?

It seems you've been looking forward to making that particular point in this battle for awhile.

Actually it just came to me but it sure adds some poetic justice to the whole situation. I mean, here you are,with your team and I'm the one who's victimizing YOU. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

Again, I made that choice for calculated reasons, and I knew the risk. I'm living with my choice, but you don't seem to be living with yours. You're trying to bend rules now just because you "had no choice" but to break them.

I don't wanna prove that I had no choice, I don't even particularly care to win. I wanna prove I have a better write-up than yours. Simple as that. And for that to happen people have to agree that in this gray-ish situation, that rule is stupid and bending it makes all the sense in the world. And naturally after I prove that people will vote for me anyway cause I'm so gosh darn luvable.

Verily, I agree. No hard feelings, I trust?

We'll discuss that later in bed.


:shock :shock :shock

[Aristotle]

Wait, you mean there's no rule agains't attacking your own teammates?They always let AnnoyingSilence do it.

What a black and white world you live in.This isn't a discourse on what gives law its authority. This is a game. And in a game, there are rules which govern gameplay. If you don't follow those rules, what is even the point of the game?

We'll discuss that later in bed.Angry makeup sex: the best kind.

[XFanTim]

Am I wrong in assuming that this is illegal? I want to get feedback on this, which is why it's here instead of in my match thread. If my understanding of the rules is wrong, I want to abandon that line of argumentation so I can argue something more correct, based on the rules. But if I'm right, and a power-steal IS an attack, then I'd also like to know that so I can continue to push the point.The rule is that ubers can't attack meds/regs unless attacked first, or unless they've already finished off the opposing ubers.

I think that's pretty explicit, but precisely what that means is up to the voters to interpret.

LV could try to argue:
(1) Black Alice shouldn't count as an uber
(2) What Black Alice did shouldn't count as an attack
(3) The rule should be overlooked in this case for some reason
(4) Yes, it was an illegal attack. But her team could still win the fight by doing ___ instead, so this mistake should be overlooked.

I'm not saying she'd necessarily be able to win those arguments, but those are the basic options she has in defending the move. It's up to the voters to decide if she's defended it effectively. I'll hold off on offering my opinion on that point until I cast my vote.

But regarding the question of whether you should spend time on this point, I don't see why not. Again, I don't want to flat out announce who I think is right or wrong before I vote, but I'll at least say you're not obviously wrong. It hasn't been definitively ruled that power stealing is not an attack, at any rate. So you can certainly argue that it is.

[wiegeabo]

I've got a favor to ask everyone. We pretty much know who's going to make playoffs. But I want to make sure we get full participation in these last matches because, frankly, that's when the games the most fun.

So, if your headed to the playoffs, but you know you won't be able to fully participate, please let me know so I can offer your spot to the next player in line who can.

I don't want this to sound like I'm being a jerk. But I think it's more sporting, and good sportsmanship, to let the next one in line have their chance if you know you can't play.


So, what do you say. Be a sport? :)





...or do I have to murder you. :cmad: :p

[XFanTim]

I'm not too worried about a lack of playoff participation. By and large, the teams who made the playoffs did so in part because they show up and actively participate each week. The only one who I'd think might say they're too busy is Gog.

If that should happen, I submit that the spot should go to the team with the next best record regardless of conference. In particular, Nightwing and Harl are both tied at 5-7, and they're playing each other this week. If an extra playoff spot should open up, I think it should be given to the winner of that match.

[wiegeabo]

Hmmm....interesting idea...

[XFanTim]

Gotta admit, having the final playoff spot decided by a head-to-head match in the final week would be pretty cool.:word:

Plus, it seems more fair than potentially having the one with a worse record get in just because his conference happened to have more people drop out.

[Aristotle]

I'm not sure how Harl will feel about that. That spot would be going to him, and if Nightwing gets it just because he won what was basically an unofficial tiebreaker game, he may feel a bit slighted.

[Harlekin]

Thanks Ari, but I have no problems with me and Nighty's match deciding the final participant for the play-offs.

[Nightwing.]

I'm not sure how Harl will feel about that. That spot would be going to him, and if Nightwing gets it just because he won what was basically an unofficial tiebreaker game, he may feel a bit slighted.

Its not like ive not tried this season.I think Harl is higher in the conference due to number of votes.If we're tied then it really wouldnt be too mych of a problem who wins.

I just think its better for the suspense of the competition that our battle is contested. Theres been a lack of contested matches this season.I for one have only had 3 uncontested i think so ive had plenty of battles on my hands.

[Khellendros]

LV could try to argue:
(1) Black Alice shouldn't count as an uberOh ****, son. Good point. Until she actually snatches some Uber power, she's a reg ain't she?

[Khellendros]

Oh, and my team WILL make it to the playoffs, no matter what.

[Ahura Mazda]

Oh ****, son. Good point. Until she actually snatches some Uber power, she's a reg ain't she?

I don't agree. If you have the ability to snag any type of magical power in your universe then you are an uber. The fact that she was used in this type of battle seems like a mistake to me more then anything and should not be justified because their powers are useless.

It would be like using Superman to fight in a red sun battle room. He is an uber but woops for this battle he and his owner is out of luck.

[LadyVader]

I could do that but you know, that's a pretty ****y thing to do. Black Alice has her ranking based on her potential. We settled this a long time a go and nobody ever argued, oh you know, until she absorbs powers she's a reg. All the power copiers/stealers with this kind of potential should be ubers.

Alice has the potential to be an omnipotent character, except for this situation. But I'm not about to say she should be deranked. Merely that in this situation it makes sense to use her the I did. And it's not a mistake either.

[XFanTim]

Oh, and my team WILL make it to the playoffs, no matter what.Not only will you make it to the playoffs, but you'll make it to at least the second round. (first round bye) :)

[Dark Gog]

I'm not sure how the schedule looks at the moment. I'll finally have time to participate again after tuesday (and seriously not a moment earlier). I think there was supposed to be a bye-week between the end of regular season and the playoffs, so if that's the case, there shouldn't be any problem. But that also leaves the question of at what date do the rosters lock-down?

Also, I wanted to finally adress Ari's rants before we matched-up again, but if that's gonna be this week, then obviously that could prove to be a problem.

[wiegeabo]

Well, voting closes tomorrow. And we're going to have a couple of days to lock rosters down.

As for a bye week, only the conference winners get them. Looks like the rest of us will start playing on Wednesday or Thursday. Thursday if we need a day to work out lineups.

[Aristotle]

Also, I wanted to finally adress Ari's rants before we matched-up again, but if that's gonna be this week, then obviously that could prove to be a problem.Yeah, I wouldn't want to be known as a dirty no-good cheater either.

[Nightwing.]

No votes?

Voting closes tomorrow.

[Aristotle]

I think it actually closes today.

[Nightwing.]

Well, voting closes tomorrow. And we're going to have a couple of days to lock rosters down.

As for a bye week, only the conference winners get them. Looks like the rest of us will start playing on Wednesday or Thursday. Thursday if we need a day to work out lineups.

Its been put back a day cos he missed the day for adding Voting Open

[XFanTim]

As I mentioned in the other thread, I probably can't read everything to vote in the last two matches until late tonight, since I'm visiting my wife's family. I meant to get it done before we got here, but I've just been really busy. If Wieg can leave it open until tomorrow morning or so, that would be nice.

[XFanTim]

OK, all my votes are now up.

[wiegeabo]

Just a head's up. Because of a big project at work, I'm going to be swamped Monday and Tuesday. And then I'll be out of town in training the rest of the week. This means I'll only be able to post at night, and possibly not at all Tuesday (since we're driving up after work).

[Nightwing.]

so like is noone else voting?

and when does it close?

[wiegeabo]

I'll close them tonight when I get to my hotel. I've just had no spare time these last couple of days.

How about we have roster's finalized by Thursday. Lineups by Friday. And I'll open the playoffs on Saturday.

[Aristotle]

What are the matchups?

[wiegeabo]

It should be:

Wieg vs. LV
Ari vs. Gog

[XFanTim]

How about we have roster's finalized by Thursday. Lineups by Friday. And I'll open the playoffs on Saturday.
That sounds fine. But it'd be nice if you can rule on any current ranking debates at least a day before rosters are closed, so we have time to adjust our rosters accordingly.

[wiegeabo]

Sounds like a plan. I'll go over the debates tomorrow night and everyone can get their final words in.


Plus, I'll close voting in a couple of hours. I just got to my hotel and we're about to go out for dinner.


...and yes, I'm bragging. :p

[LadyVader]

Don't close them until I get a chance to vote!

[wiegeabo]

Don't close them until I get a chance to vote!

Let me guess. The empty promise of more sexual favors? ;)

[LadyVader]

Well... that is our shtick. :)

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.

[wiegeabo]

I have a feeling I screwed up some of the tie-breaker math (long day). But luckily, the tie-breakers don't have any bearing on the rankings.

So, we finally have our playoff teams. And with my beating Who?, Ari beating LV, and Gog beating Corp, no unowned teams made it to the playoffs.


So here's our playoff situation:

First round (Wildcard championships)
Chaos & Order vs. Deadpool's Harem
The Authoritatans vs. B'wana Bet?

Second round (Conference Championships)
The Deadly Dozen vs. Timely Wildcard Champ
The Immortals vs. National Wildcard Champ

Final round (DTL Championship)
Timely Champion vs. National Champion

All-Star match
Timely Champion Runner-Up vs. National Champion Runner-Up


Special congratulations to Tim's Deadly Dozen for having the league's best performing team in both win/loss/tie and tie-breaker.

[Aristotle]

All-Star match
Timely Wildcard Champion vs. National Wildcard ChampionHuh?

[XFanTim]

Huh?
He means the losers of the conference championships coach the All-Star team. Of course, it wouldn't necessarily be the winner of the wildcard match who loses the conference championship -- but I can hope. ;)

[Nightwing.]

I have a feeling I screwed up some of the tie-breaker math (long day). But luckily, the tie-breakers don't have any bearing on the rankings.

So, we finally have our playoff teams. And with my beating Who?, Ari beating LV, and Gog beating Corp, no unowned teams made it to the playoffs.


So here's our playoff situation:

First round (Wildcard championships)
Chaos & Order vs. Deadpool's Harem
The Authoritatans vs. B'wana Bet?

Second round (Conference Championships)
The Deadly Dozen vs. Timely Wildcard Champ
The Immortals vs. National Wildcard Champ

Final round (DTL Championship)
Timely Champion vs. National Champion

All-Star match
Timely Wildcard Champion vs. National Wildcard Champion


Special congratulations to Tim's Deadly Dozen for having the league's best performing team in both win/loss/tie and tie-breaker.

So close to a place....

There is always next season biatches

[Aristotle]

Gog just better show up, because it's gonna be real lame when a playoff spot turns out to go to a no-show.

[Nightwing.]

Well how will we know if he will show for definate?

[XFanTim]

Special congratulations to Tim's Deadly Dozen for having the league's best performing team in both win/loss/tie and tie-breaker.Amazingly, it seems I swept the vote in every match except against Wieg and Nightwing. That's got to be some sort of record.:woot:

And yet, I'm not exactly brimming with confidence over any of my potential playoff matchups. I either get Wieg who's already beat me once, or LV who I'm pretty sure was a no show when I beat her. And if I make it to the finals, there's a good chance I'll end up facing someone who lost to me in their first ever match (Khell, Ari) and has had all season to plot their revenge.

Here's hoping I don't end up known as the New England Patriots of the DTL, dominating the regular season and then losing the Superbowl.:csad:

[wiegeabo]

Ok everyone, I've only had one person nominate characters for the All-Star game. Let's get some more.

[Nightwing.]

How do the nominations work again?

Are we nominating other teams characters?

If so how many?

[wiegeabo]

You can only nominate characters on other teams. Nominate those that you feel were especially important or key to the League in each weight class. Top performers, if you like that phrase better.

I didn't specify a number, so just use your best judgment.

So just send me a pm of the characters. Be sure to tell me which conference they're in.

[Dark Gog]

Do we have a venue for the first playoff round yet?

And why make nominations private at-all? It would probably go a lot smoother if everyone posted their suggestions here.

[XFanTim]

All-Star Nominations

I guess I'll go ahead and make my nominations public, in hopes that it will get more people thinking about who they'd like to pick. I tried to mostly pick characters who played key roles in winning contested matches. I've included a little blurb about each to explain why I picked them.

Timely Conference

Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (DU) -- In week 5 I detailed at length how my team would control the tech-heavy battlefield and use it to take down the opposition. So what does Kyle do in the first five seconds of the fight? Elctromagnetic pulse. Thus wiping out my strategy and handing me my lone loss of the regular season.

Proctor (MR) -- Between brain scrambling and a sword that can cut through anything, Proctor has an answer for everything. He too may have been at his best against my team in week 5, when he managed to keep one of my ubers (Hadrian) busy for a while, and eventually killed my other one (Zoom). Not to mention he masterminded the whole thing.

Byakko (DM) -- One of the most dangerous mediums out there. She's a factor almost every week, but perhaps most significantly in week 10 where her phasing and gravity powers were used to split up the opposition, disrupt their communications, and destroy any of the battlefield tech they might have been able to use. With Byakko keeping their team off balance, Ahura and Khell suffered their second and final loss of the regular season.

Jaine Cutter (MR) -- She took on Quasar in week 4 and Thanos in week 7. Not bad for a reg. She benefitted from AS's lack of a writeup in the latter case, and from some awesome stick figure illustrations in the former, but still... this chick's got cojones.

National Conference

Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme (MU) -- Iron Man's brain and Dr. Strange's powers make him one of the most dangerous uber mages. He was at his best in week 8, where he managed to take down Baron Zemo. Zemo's Moonstones couldn't help him after a spell made him forget how to use them.

Fernus the Burning (DU) -- After nominating Kyle Rayner and Proctor, I feel I have to nominate the guys that beat them in an impressive week 11 battle. One of the most versatile ubers in this thing, Fernus proved too much for Kyle to handle.

Kang (MM) -- A later addition to his team, Kang has more than proved his worth. In the aforementioned week 11 battle he managed to not only defeat Proctor but the Vision as well.

Note: This is by no means an incredibly comprehensive list of characters worthy of an All-Star nod. I'd originally hoped to include five characters from each conference, but I got through seven characters and got tired. I also would have really liked to have a few more teams represented in my picks. Since you all know who I'm nominating, I'd encourage you to look at the other characters and especially the other teams that did well but that I didn't get around to picking someone from, like Ari's team, or Gog's team, or Nightwing's. My team was pretty decent too, I'd say.

[Aristotle]

Somebody tell me the name and address of the son of a ***** that put malware on my computer through the Hype!, and I will tickle his brain with a Goddamned Bowie knife. Anyway, here's my All-Star stuff.

For the Timely Conference, my All-Star votes are:
Doomsday/Brainiac (DU)--He's unstoppable. The only workable way to take him out was battlefield removal, and I don't think anyone was even successful with that. He's too fast and strong for any conventional attack, and too psionically tough for a psi-attack. He might be susceptible to magic through his Kryptonian DNA, but it becomes moot when up against his speed and strength. In a word, he is literally unbeatable.
Hadrian (Daemonite) (DU)--I don't really have as many flowery things to say about him, because he was so overshadowed by D/B's performance, but he was one of the most solid players in that conference all season long.
Captain Marvel (Genis 2x) (MU)--Like D/B, I believe that Genis is tuber, but I seem to be the only one who thinks so, despite the fact that, at least the way AS wrote him, Genis can and does predict anything and everything, and knows anything and everything, while conveniently sidestepping the whole "cosmic awareness drove him insane" thing.
Thanos (MU)--Another "Shouldn't He Be Tuber?" character, Thanos is, like D/B, virtually unbeatable. I mean, isn't the only thing that can kill him a specialized Thanos-killing forcefield?
Byakko (DM)--Everything Tim said, I agree with. In my Week 12 match against the character, I think Byakko was the toughest character to account for.
Magneto (Pre-Fatal Attractions) (DM)--He didn't show up every match, but when he was there, he was on fire. He's got a myriad of uses, and the only thing that keeps him in a lower ranking is the lower level of sheer force he can apply. He's one of the most versatile meds in the game.
Mount Joy (MM)--I ****ing hate this character, but no All-Star team from that Conference would be complete without MountJoy.
Darkchylde (Inferno) (MR)--It was hard for me to remember a lot of regs that really did it for me this season, and I didn't want to choose a third member of the lineup that beat me in my first match, so I went with Darkchylde.
Proctor (MR)--Again, what Tim said, I can't really add to.

For the National Conference, my All-Star votes are:
Tony Stark: Sorceror Supreme (MU)--If you think you're detecting a pattern in my nominations, a tendency towards "Shouldn't He Be Tuber?" characters, you're right.
Josef Huber (MU)--I'm not entirely sure how this character can even be allowed. If I was more well-versed in X-Men history, I'd be on this guy like a rat on a Chee-To.
Brainiac 417 (DM)--The unbeatable med.
"Death" Wolverine (MR)--Really the only reg from this conference that jumped out at me as having really kicked ass.
Devil Slayer (MR)--Like I said earlier, aside from a couple, there weren't a lot of regs that really did it for me. I remember Devil Slayer from one of the first matches I read, before I even started playing officially, and I believe he killed Zauriel in a pretty well-written match (this was before X went nuts).

[XFanTim]

You've gotta love how Ari's All-Star nominations are mostly complaints about the guys he's nominating. :D

[Aristotle]

Of course. Who else would I nominate but the people I had the toughest time with?

[wiegeabo]

All Start Noms

Timely
Turtle (MU) - Call him cheap. Call him uber. Call him a freaky old man with a shell fetish. But he's still a very dangerous opponent, and when used effectively, watch out.

The Atom (Ray Palmer) (DR) - Is there a more dangerous regular? That's a rhetorical question. Sort of.

Mount Joy (MM) - Cheap or not, this guy is deadly effective. You may have to sacrifice your own guys, but it might just be worth it.

Byakko (DM) - Gravity manipulation and intangibility? That's one heck of a combo. And LV used that combo quite effectively.

Deadpool (DR) - C'mon! It's freakin' Deadpool! Is someone talking about me? Shut up, I'm working. Hey, screw you man! You'd like that, wouldn't you? ...maybe...

National
Tony Stark (Sorcerer Supreme) (MU) - What really needs to be said. Strange level spell casting at Iron Man computer speeds? Talk about pushing the tubar, and a great character to have on your side.

Baron Zemo (Moonstones) (MU) - Brains, powers, and the will to use them. Not someone you want to fight. And he held his own against some of the top characers in the League. So he must be perfect for an All-Star team.

Black Panther (MR) - T'Challa is a dangerous opponent. An expert in almost everything. And Harl made you remember that when you faced him.

Superman Prime (DU) - Is he overpowered? Tuber? Cheap? One thing's for sure is that he can probably kick your ass.

Midnighter (DR) - Not sure which version was used better, but does it really matter?

[LadyVader]

It is freakin Deadpool! Only he's not from the DC Universe. :D

[Nightwing.]

Turtle is DU

[Nightwing.]

Are we posting our nominations here?

[Aristotle]

Yeah, we're doing them public instead.

[Nightwing.]

National Conference

Steel (DM) - He was used so effectively by his owner. He's a valuable asset to any team and his over all skill levels make him a tough opponent.

Midnighter (Post-Worldstorm) (DR) - I chose this version over the other Midnighter as I felt he was used to great effect. He, like Thanos, is an opponent that requires fore thought to defeat. Ari's use of this character left alot of opponents struggling to find ways to handle him. A valuable reg.

Timely Conference

Thanos (MU) - He seemed to be the only Uber that caused so many people trouble. When he was faced owners had to really strategise and formulate plans to take him down. Otherwise it was a stalemate and I like characters that require people to think and apply effort.

Magneto (Pre-Fatal Attractions) (MM) - A very powerful Medium for this tournament. Was able to take a large number of Ubers out successfully. He is probably top end medium but its his overall telepathy resistance and other traits that makes him very effective and near unstoppable.

Vision (MM) - Could tap into any tech source and over run it giving a great advantage to the owner much like Steel. But his extras such as energy projection and intangibility made him a worthy opponent.

All of my selections have been based on the fact that strategy is needed to take them out. Just sending in a powerhouse is one option but to out smart and use teamwork against them shows better team control of the owners own characters.

Obviously my next choices wouldve been

Martian Manhunter (DU)
Darkseid (DU)
Juggernaut (MU)
Superman (Kingdom Come) (DU)
Captain Britain (w/Excalibur) (MU)
Replicant (DU)
The Turtle (DU)
Batman (DR)
Captain America (MR)
Zauriel (DR)
The Atom (Ray Palmer) (DR)

But unfortunately I cant choose my own.

But you all can :)

PS No Ubers really stuck out for me in the National Conference. Personal observation there. That and people swapped and changed their Ubers that much.

[Aristotle]

So when's the first round start?

[Aristotle]

Also, people should keep getting those nominations in. It's shaping up to be an interesting team for the Timely Conference, with probably Thanos taking an uber spot, Byakko definitely taking the med spot, and Proctor having an edge on a reg spot. However, the National Conference is getting fewer votes and fewer characters nominated. Stark Supreme looks to be a shoo-in for an uber slot, and Midnighter (Post-Worldstorm) may have an early advantage on a reg slot, but other than that, there's just several guys with one vote apiece.

[Nightwing.]

Who get sto play with these nominated teams?

[XFanTim]

Generally, it's the losers of the conference championship matches. Sort of a consolation for almost making it to the final match. But it's been suggested that the owners of the characters can PM their strategy suggestions to the ones writing the match.

[wiegeabo]

I'll post the matches tonight.

[Nightwing.]

Ok so with us being past the division matches things are gonna turn a little dull for those not participating and I was wondering if there was anything we could do to keep things interesting....

Maybe create wish lists for the future seasons. Possibly drafting in new players for the new season and having 'friendly's' much like in football or rugby to stretch out our characters. Obviously there wouldnt be any trades allowed but it means we're not twiddling our thumbs until the new season...

People could select who they want to fight and, provided theyre interested then we could do battle for fun. No votes needed....just to test out our teams,find new strategies against different powersets,use new characters that have only just been drafted...

Any ideas from anyone else not involved in the playoff stages?

[wiegeabo]

There's ton of stuff to do before next season.

Come up with theme weeks.
Come up with locations.
Get new players (that can wait a while).
We still need to get a FAQ together.

[Aristotle]

I don't think there's any reason not to have some scrimmage matches for the non-postseason teams.

[Khellendros]

So, who are the Immortals fighting this week?

[XFanTim]

So, who are the Immortals fighting this week?Nobody. As the top teams in our respective conferences, your team and mine get an automatic "bye" into the second round of the playoffs.

You'll face the winner of Gog and Ari's match next week. I get the winner of Wieg and LV.

[Nightwing.]

I don't think there's any reason not to have some scrimmage matches for the non-postseason teams.

:woot::grin::woot:

Ready....FIGHT!!!!!

[Aristotle]

Make your own threads and matches, dude. I mean, seriously, does anyone have a problem with it?

[Nightwing.]

I dont....I think there should just be an area where people can use the characters they have to fight and debate and learn different tactics and strategies...learn their opponents better....but without the short time....maybe extend the battles dependant on life issues etc. That way there is no uncontested matches and people can really go for it....

And there should be blind line ups. So theres no preptime you just throw 5 characters in and do the best from there....maybe have an unbiased person to take both line ups in and then post them in the thread....no changes after....could be really interesting and fun that way....obviously not do this every week as it can get tiresome.....

And on the weeks where changes are allowed, limit them to 3 changes....once you've passed them you're stuck with the team regardless of what the other person has changed/chosen.

No transaction to take place ie Trades and Pick ups. Temporary loans could work...for one week you can 'borrow' a character from another willing participant. As soon as the battle is over the character goes back without question. And lets say only 1 loan/swap within 5 battles.

Any of this sound good to people?

Would you participate if we got this in motion....its free time fun...no pressure,no scores...just keeps it fresh for the new season and if any ideas are good enough they could be used for the new season or atleast debated on....

And if participation is good enough we could do mini round robin competitions. A few groups of say 6 or 8. You play someone winner goes through. A knock out so to speak. Its fun...only the other participants can vote...a tie would result in a shuffle of line ups and another battle until there is a victor.

This is a bit of an essay but ideas are flowing....anyone else got any ideas?

Please voice them. Thats what this tournament is about...we want to keep it fun so more people will join...

[wiegeabo]

Battle thread is up.

[wiegeabo]

I've got no problem with exhibition matches. Although I'd prefer they wait until after the season ends.

[Nightwing.]

Thats what I mean....once this season has finished then everyone can play if they wish. Just challenge someone,place the thread down and fight.

[Aristotle]

Hey, about the playoff matches: can we mandate that all writeups be in before the voting is scheduled to start? I got me a feeling Gog's gonna try to pull that **** again where he submits his writeup a day before voting ends to quash debate.

[XFanTim]

Well, what would the penalty be for not getting your writeup in on time? Forfeiture? That would be a lame way to decide the match.

If anything, I say if people are late with their writeups we just delay voting a couple days. Given that the season is almost over, there's no reason to stick to an overly rigid schedule. Better to give everyone as much time as they need to do a good writeup and debate.

[Aristotle]

But then do we just delay voting indefinitely until Gog decides to get around to it?

[XFanTim]

Those who post late will face the soul-searing Penance Stare (http://musicology.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/26/carebearsstare.jpg).

Whoops, I mean this one (http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/5000/4268/94719-ghost-rider_400.jpg). (The other is simply too cruel.)

[wiegeabo]

AHHHH!!! Eyes are bleeding!!!

Why would you do that Tim? WHY?!!!

[Aristotle]

Can I get a ranking on a Carebear? I'm thinking of trading out my Silver Surfer for a Carebear.

[Nightwing.]

Tuber...the amount of love they spread....would stalemate every character and noone would fight....

[Aristotle]

I'd only use the Carebear Stare as an energy attack...

[Nightwing.]

What about the roar that that lion has?

Its been ages since I watched it so my knowledge is a little rusty to say the least

I personally though would pick up a visionary or a gummi bear....combine the two abilities and theyre a lethal combo.

[wiegeabo]

All the Carebear Cousins had the roar.