Dream Team League (Discussion)

[TheCorpulent1]

Thanks. I'm almost done.

[Franklin Richards]

I sent in 25. Think that'll be enough?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[XFanTim]

I sent in 25. Think that'll be enough?


:thing: :doom: :thing:
Should be. So far none of the lists I've received have more than about three characters overlap with any others.

[Khellendros]

Sent mine in. It's pretty lean buuuut I went for a lot of pretty unknown characters, so I'm not too worried about getting a full roster.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, you have plenty of guys no one else listed.

I'm still waiting on Corp's list, and I'm still waiting to hear who Ahura wants to replace Thor (w/ Power Gem). Also, Ari is inheriting a team with four empty spots from me, so I guess he can submit a second list to fill those four spots.

[Ahura Mazda]

I have sent five names to replace Thor but there is really only one I want ;)

[TheCorpulent1]

I sent mine in. Only 22 or 23 characters, but that should be enough with all the free characters from ownerless teams floating around. I can add more if necessary, or you can just start adding alternates you've already passed over if all else fails and I'll replace them with trades.

[Khellendros]

I can spare the time to run things for the next couple days . . . this "overthrow you" idea sounds pretty interesting, though. ;)

If you want to send me the lists you've already got, I can work on pestering the others for their lists.I would just like to say that I, for one, welcome our new Dream Team overlord. I'd like to remind him that as a trusted DTL personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in his underground comic archives.

[XFanTim]

I sent mine in. Only 22 or 23 characters, but that should be enough with all the free characters from ownerless teams floating around. I can add more if necessary, or you can just start adding alternates you've already passed over if all else fails and I'll replace them with trades.

A few of yours are on other people's lists, but you still shouldn't have any trouble getting 12.

[XFanTim]

Draft Update
Wieg and I have received lists from Ari, Nightwing, Franklin, Khell, Corp, and Ahura. While there may be a bit of a battle over a few characters, they're all different enought that everyone should be able to fill out his roster.

I think the only question now is whether Ari is going to submit a second list to fill the 4 empty spots on the team he's inheriting from me. Presumably you'd want to use a different list so your two teams aren't competing for the same characters. If coming up with a second list of characters is too much of a pain, you could always leave those spots empty and then fill them after you see who gets drafted.

[Nightwing.]

once Ari's lists are in how long before we hear who we've got?

[Khellendros]

Draft UpdateWhile there may be a bit of a battle over a few characters, they're all different enought that everyone should be able to fill out his roster.:cmad:Just tell me, is it the lower or upper half of my list that overlaps?

[XFanTim]

:cmad:Just tell me, is it the lower or upper half of my list that overlaps?
Mostly the lower half. I think there's really only one of your top 12 picks that you're in danger of not getting.

[wiegeabo]

once Ari's lists are in how long before we hear who we've got?

Depending on when I get it, I can start the draft immediately.


Yeah, that's right bithces. I'm back! And I'm reclaiming my omnipotent throne. And I'm ready to severely punish those who would dare turn against me.

*looks at Khell*

[TheCorpulent1]

I sent my list to Tim. Do I have to send it to you too, or are you and Tim still on speaking terms in spite of his power-tripping behind your back and all?

[Aristotle]

Regarding my second list: I was under the impression that I had to wait until everyone else drafted, and then I could pick my roster, since it's an extra team.

[XFanTim]

I sent my list to Tim. Do I have to send it to you too, or are you and Tim still on speaking terms in spite of his power-tripping behind your back and all?I forwarded all the lists I received to Wieg.

Regarding my second list: I was under the impression that I had to wait until everyone else drafted, and then I could pick my roster, since it's an extra team.Now that you mention it, I think we did say that. That seems more fair to me.

So I guess that means we can start the draft, huh?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes. Let's draft this b****.

[wiegeabo]

All right.

We'll draft tonight, if not sooner.

[TheCorpulent1]

Draft like you've never drafted before, and other assorted platitudes.

[Franklin Richards]

Let's go. Let's go.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

The draft will begin soon. I won't be involved because I'm not dropping any characters. And obviously Tim isn't in, and Ari's going to fill that team afterwards.

So, those in the draft will be:
1. Ahura
2. Kell
3. Ari
4. Corp
5. Wing
6. Franklin

BTW, that's the order the draft will take place in (it was a randomly generated order). Since it's a snake draft, the first round goes from 1-6. Next round 6-1. Then 1-6.

[Aristotle]

Let's draft this b****.The b**** went nuts.

[wiegeabo]

Draft Results:
Round 1

Ahura - WW Hulk
Khell - Dark Flash (Walter West)
Ari - Flash (Wally West)
Corp - Krakkl of Kwyzz
Wing - Black Panther
Franklin - Dr. Doom

And with that first round, Ahura and Wing are done replacing characters.

[Aristotle]

The draft will begin soon. I won't be involved because I'm not dropping any characters. And obviously Tim isn't in, and Ari's going to fill that team afterwards.

So, those in the draft will be:
1. Ahura
2. Kell
3. Ari
4. Corp
5. Wing
6. Franklin

BTW, that's the order the draft will take place in (it was a randomly generated order). Since it's a snake draft, the first round goes from 1-6. Next round 6-1. Then 1-6.You know, Corp and I got screwed in the butt that way. The other four guys get a chance to go at the front or near the front, while we're in the middle of the pack every time. Why not go 1-6, then 6-1, then 456123, then 321654, or something like that?

[wiegeabo]

Draft Results:
Round 2

Franklin - Reed Richards
Corp - Thor
Ari - Kilowog
Khell - The Engineer

[wiegeabo]

Draft Results:
Round 3

Khell - Strange/Man-Thing
Ari- Mr. Majestic
Corp - Capatain America w/Mjolnir
Franklin - Lex Luthor

[XFanTim]

You know, Corp and I got screwed in the butt that way. The other four guys get a chance to go at the front or near the front, while we're in the middle of the pack every time. Why not go 1-6, then 6-1, then 456123, then 321654, or something like that?
Having looked over the lists, I don't think it's really going to make a difference. Keep in mind the order only matters when both of you are attempting to pick the same character in the same round. Usually, one person will have the character higher on their list than the other, so they'll draft them in an earlier round.

The first round order did matter, though, as Corp got his second alternate after Walter and Wally. But that's just luck of the draw.

[wiegeabo]

Draft Results:
Round 4

Franklin - Brainiac-5
Corp- Black Knight
Ari - Pre-Crisis Superboy
Khell - Superman (Kingdom Comes)

[wiegeabo]

Draft Results
Round 5

Khell - Silver Surfer (Post Annihilation)
Ari - Quicksilver
Corp - Little Boy Blue
Franklin - Supergirl

And with that roung, Ari has filled his team.

[Franklin Richards]

Woot! So far so good.


The Yancy Street Gang is shaping up.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

Draft Results
Round 6

Franklin - Human Torch
Corp - Hadrian
Khell - Overmind


Draft Results
Round 7

Khell - Spider-Man (What If? Spider-man vs. Wolverine)
Corp - Byakko
Franklin - Saturn Girl


Draft Results
Round 8

Franklin - Valkyrie
Corp - Vision
Khell - R'amey Holl (post-evolution)


Draft Results
Round 9

Khell - Grail
Corp - Quasar (Wendell Vaughn)
Franklin - Ion (Sodam Yat)


Draft Results
Round 10

Franklin - Blackbolt
Corp - Sersi
Khell - Sabretooth (AOA)


Draft Results
Round 11

Khell - Mother One
Corp - Aquaman
Franklin - Dazzler


Draft Results
Round 12

Franklin - Invisible Woman
Corp - Iceman (AOA)
Khell - Prince of Orphans

[wiegeabo]

They'll probably be some discussion about character rankings, and if some characters are tuber or not.

If any drafted character is tubered, you will get the next available character on your draft list.

I'm leaving for a while soon, so I won't be making any official changes until I get back. But feel free to discuss.

[Franklin Richards]

I was curious about Sodam Yat. Didn't know if he was Tuber or not. Glad I got him though.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

[XFanTim]

Here are the rosters. Please let me know if I made any mistakes. Some of the rankings I wasn't sure about. Also, some of the teams need names.

DTL Season 6 Rosters

Heroes of the New Age (Owner - Nightwing)
Martian Manhunter (DU)
Juggernaut (MU)
Superman (Kingdom Come) (DU)
Captain Britain (w/Excalibur) (MU)
Replicant (DU)
The Turtle (DU)
Psylocke (telekinesis) (MM)
Batman (DR)
Captain America (MR)
Zauriel (DR)
The Atom (Ray Palmer) (DR)
Black Panther (MR)

Chaos & Order (Owner - wiegeabo)
Adam Warlock (MU)
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (DU)
Shanzar (MU)
Exodus (MU)
Nimrod (MU)
Flash (Jay Garrick) (DM)
Vision (MM)
Scarlet Witch (MM)
Proctor (MR)
Deadline (DR)
Ambrose Chase (DR)
Fate (Jared Stevens) (DR)

The Immortals (Owner - Ahura Mazda)
Hulk (World War Hulk) (MU)
Silver Surfer (eXiles) (MU)
Xavier Juggernaut (MU)
Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme (MU)
"Burnt Offering" Cable (MU)
Iceman (MM)
Disruptor (DM)
Talisman (MM)
Winter (DM)
Brainiac 417 (DM)
"Death"Wolverine (MR)
Midnighter (DR)

The Authorititans (Owner - Aristotle)
Wonder Woman (Mental Powers) (DU)
Flash (Wally West) (DU)
Ariella Kent (DU)
Kilowog (DU)
Mr. Majestic (DU)
Superboy (Pre-Crisis) (DU)
Sebastian Faust (DM)
Aztek (DM)
The Engineer (Armageddon) (DM)
Anarky (DR)
Midnighter (Post-Worldstorm) (DR)
Quicksilver (MR)

(Owner - TheCorpulent1)
Krakkl of Kwyzz (DU)
Thor (MU)
Quasar (MU)
Sersi (MU)
Hardrian (Wildcats vol. 2) (DM)
Byakko (DM)
Vision (MM)
Aquaman (DM)
Iceman (Age of Apocalypse) (MM)
Black Knight (MR)
Little Boy Blue (DR)
Kasumi (DR)

(Owner - Khellendros)
Dark Flash (Walter West) (DU)
Dr. Strange/ Man-Thing (MU)
Superman (Kingdom Come) (DU)
Silver Surfer (Post-Annihilation) (MU)
Over-Mind (MU)
R'amey Holl (post-evolution) (DU)
The Engineer (DM)
Grail (DM)
Spiderman (What If?... Spiderman vs Wolverine) (MR)
Sabretooth (Age of Apocalypse) (MR)
Mother One (DR)
Prince of Orphans (MR)

The Yancy Street Gang (Owner - Franklin Richards)
Ion (Sodam Yat) (DU)
Blackbolt (MU)
Supergirl (DU)
Saturn Girl (DM)
Dr. Doom (MM)
Invisible Woman (MM)
Valkyrie (MR)
Human Torch (MR)
Reed Richards (MR)
Lex Luthor (DR)
Brainiac-5 (DR)
Dazzler (MR)

The Deadly Dozen (Owner - Aristotle)
Magneto (Pre-Fatal Attractions) (MM)
Crystal (MM)
Doom 2099 (MM)
Box (Madison Jeffries) (MM)
The Ghost (MR)
Darkchylde (Inferno) (MR)
Deadman (DR)
Vandal Savage (1 million) (DR)
EMPTY
EMPTY
EMPTY
EMPTY

[Franklin Richards]

My teams name is the Yancy Street Gang.

As for my lineup. I think Saturn Girl is a DU. Valkyrie is prolly a MM. I'm using Valkyrie with the Ebony Blade.

And wouldn't the one true Doom be a MU?

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[XFanTim]

Regarding Quicksilver, I assume you're talking about the Marvel speedster, right? At his classic power level, he has sub-sonic speed, making him a regular. Then there was a version who was powered up with "Isotope-E", who had supersonic speed and I believe we ranked as a medium. Then after House of M, he got some sort of time-based powers, right?

Also, just how powerful is pre-Crisis Superboy, anyway?

[XFanTim]

double

[XFanTim]

We originally had Doom as uber (based on the fact that he's fought ubers one-on-one and such), but then we downgraded him to medium at some point prior to last season. I think the rationale was that Doom's only power is his inventions, and we have other super inventors as regs (e.g. Reed Richards) or Mediums (e.g., Iron Man). (Actually, I think Iron Man used to be an uber too, but we later decided that as long as he's using standard armor or one of comparable power he's a medium.)

[XFanTim]

I'm at a coffee shop with a crummy internet connection, so I'm going to sign off for now. I'll check back in tonight to make any corrections to the above rosters.

[Aristotle]

Quicksilver: I was looking at the reg version. I'm looking to make the squad work a little faster than it has, and a reg speedster looked like a good pickup.

Pre-Crisis Superboy: Very high-end uber. He's as powerful as we thought Superboy-Prime was until he turned out to be a killer of Supermen and an unkillable beast. Basically, we're looking at pre-Crisis Superman, but as a boy. I don't know why I didn't just ask for pre-Crisis Superman, but so it goes.

Let me know when I can start work on my second roster.

Was that strange-o-rama ban on Amalgam characters ever lifted, by the way?

[Franklin Richards]

We originally had Doom as uber (based on the fact that he's fought ubers one-on-one and such), but then we downgraded him to medium at some point prior to last season. I think the rationale was that Doom's only power is his inventions, and we have other super inventors as regs (e.g. Reed Richards) or Mediums (e.g., Iron Man). (Actually, I think Iron Man used to be an uber too, but we later decided that as long as he's using standard armor or one of comparable power he's a medium.)

Works for me. But I'll be using Doom's magical powers as well. Not the Hazareth Demon enhancement but his ranking when he made Strange help him free his mother. Plus the tricks Morgan Le Fey taught him.


I'll have the most powerful MM in the game. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Khellendros]

fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap

[Khellendros]

We originally had Doom as uber (based on the fact that he's fought ubers one-on-one and such), but then we downgraded him to medium at some point prior to last season. I think the rationale was that Doom's only power is his inventions, and we have other super inventors as regs (e.g. Reed Richards) or Mediums (e.g., Iron Man). (Actually, I think Iron Man used to be an uber too, but we later decided that as long as he's using standard armor or one of comparable power he's a medium.)You know he's been using some pretty powerful magic recently, right?

[Aristotle]

Did we seriously not make Stark Supreme tuber? Seriously? The pinnacle of tech and the pinnacle of magic isn't above the bar?

[XFanTim]

Did we seriously not make Stark Supreme tuber? Seriously? The pinnacle of tech and the pinnacle of magic isn't above the bar?We didn't end up banning any of the uber mages (except mine, Loki, for being too god-like or something . . . I don't really know if he's so much better than the others, but I didn't bother to contest it since so many good replacement mages were available.) The argument was that the "no uber powers during prep-time" made them less dominant. It stops them from throwing up a million magical defenses during prep-time, which in theory makes them more vulnerable to characters with high-level super speed like Superman or the Flash.

Also, Khell claimed that in terms of tech he's not as good as regular Iron Man, since he's focused more on magic.

You know he's been using some pretty powerful magic recently, right?I haven't read much recent stuff, so I don't know about that (unless you're referring to the Doom from "Unthinkable", who had some pact with demons that this one doesn't have.) I do know that my team (now Ari's team 2) has Doom 2099, who has Doom's mind and drastically better tech, and he's still a medium. I'd defend that as the correct ranking, since he would still get pretty severely trashed in a head-to-head fight with someone like Silver Surfer or Superman. (Well, maybe he could survive Superman if he just stayed phased for the whole battle.) Of course, Doom is probably smart enough to avoid going toe-to-toe with one of those guys, but that doesn't really factor in his ranking, since really how good a strategy your team uses depends on the owner, not the characters.

So unless Dr. Doom has gained so much in magic that he surpasses Doom 2099 (with his phasing, flying, tech control, adamantium armor, invisibility, and 22nd century level forcefields/blasters etc.), I think he's a medium. But like I said, I haven't read his recent appearances so I don't know.


Pre-Crisis Superboy: Very high-end uber. He's as powerful as we thought Superboy-Prime was until he turned out to be a killer of Supermen and an unkillable beast. Basically, we're looking at pre-Crisis Superman, but as a boy. I don't know why I didn't just ask for pre-Crisis Superman, but so it goes.See, I was under the impression that pre-crisis Superman was tuber, in which case I'd wonder if even the teenage version is too. But maybe I'm wrong, I haven't read too many of Superman's pre-crisis appearances.

Was that strange-o-rama ban on Amalgam characters ever lifted, by the way?No, they're still banned. Personally I've always preferred it that way. Too many of them never struck me as being intended to be serious characters, more like they just took two characters with similar names and mashed them together. ("Dr. Doomsday", etc.) I'm morally opposed any characters whose whole existence is based on a pun.

[XFanTim]

Valkyrie is prolly a MM. I'm using Valkyrie with the Ebony Blade.I did a search, and apparently in Season 4 we had Valkyrie as a reg. The Ebony Blade is good and all, but we've had both Proctor and Black Panther with the blade will still allowing them as regs. So for now I've marked her MR, but if people think she should be a medium I can change it.

[Franklin Richards]

I remember the Amalgams and adding the non Big 2 comic heroes was one of the reasons I left last time. Just say no to Amalgams.

So what about Saturn Girl? She went from DR to DU last time I had her. Maybe DM?


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Franklin Richards]

I did a search, and apparently in Season 4 we had Valkyrie as a reg. The Ebony Blade is good and all, but we've had both Proctor and Black Panther with the blade will still allowing them as regs. So for now I've marked her MR, but if people think she should be a medium I can change it.

Don't forget she can bench about 50 tons and she's the greatest swordswoman in all of Asgard.

What is Rogue's ranking? That's a pretty even fight.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[XFanTim]

I think at one point we had Rogue (with her classic powerset) as a reg as well. I guess the theory was that if the Thing is a kind of the standard example for a medium, then anyone with just hand-to-hand type powers who's significantly weaker than him would be a reg. (But then again, the Thing can't drain someone's powers by touching them, nor does he have expert swordsmanship and a sword that can cut through damn near anything . . . )

[XFanTim]

So what about Saturn Girl? She went from DR to DU last time I had her. Maybe DM?Her only power is telepathy, right? Unless it's close to Xavier level, I think DM sounds reasonable. Even Xavier is a pretty crappy uber in my opinion, since there are other ubers with a similar level of telepathy on top of telekinesis or other powers.

[Franklin Richards]

The thing with her is, that her Mind Control is second to none. It even works on Robots. Unless she gets taken out quick, she can definately take over all but the strongest wills. And I'm talking top of the Willpower Pyramid. Guys who train not to be taken over.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Khellendros]

Did we seriously not make Stark Supreme tuber? Seriously? The pinnacle of tech and the pinnacle of magic isn't above the bar?
Again, his armor was not the even close to the "pinnacle of tech", but keep telling that lie over and over, Ari. Maybe someone will believe it.

I haven't read much recent stuff, so I don't know about that (unless you're referring to the Doom from "Unthinkable", who had some pact with demons that this one doesn't have.) I do know that my team (now Ari's team 2) has Doom 2099, who has Doom's mind and drastically better tech, and he's still a medium. I'd defend that as the correct ranking, since he would still get pretty severely trashed in a head-to-head fight with someone like Silver Surfer or Superman. (Well, maybe he could survive Superman if he just stayed phased for the whole battle.) Of course, Doom is probably smart enough to avoid going toe-to-toe with one of those guys, but that doesn't really factor in his ranking, since really how good a strategy your team uses depends on the owner, not the characters.

So unless Dr. Doom has gained so much in magic that he surpasses Doom 2099 (with his phasing, flying, tech control, adamantium armor, invisibility, and 22nd century level forcefields/blasters etc.), I think he's a medium. But like I said, I haven't read his recent appearances so I don't know.Took Sentry out with a spell in a recent issue of one of the Avengers books, and I THINK he was using his armor to cast spells, like Stark Supreme does. I could be wrong about that, though... His magic isn't uber level, but if you have an excellent medium in terms of armor and tech and then adding medium-level magic, that says Uber to me.

EDIT: Yep, issue nine of Mighty Avengers, looks like the armor casts the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak for him. Issue ten, he, Stark and Sentry travel back in time, and the spell he casts to take out Sentry is the ONLY one that he speaks, even though he uses an unknown spell to attack IM.

[wiegeabo]

The thing with her is, that her Mind Control is second to none. It even works on Robots. Unless she gets taken out quick, she can definately take over all but the strongest wills. And I'm talking top of the Willpower Pyramid. Guys who train not to be taken over.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

That sounds like around Xavier level telepathy. Combine that with the abilities of a Legion flight-ring, sounds uber.

[wiegeabo]

Ok, something I knew I forgot, but the mention of Rogue reminded me.

Power-copiers.

The current rule (which I think I officially need to add to the rules) is that you cannot copy so many, or high enough, powers during a match that your character bumps up in rank. Unless you've made room for that.

So, if you're using Rogue as a reg and absorb the Surfer's power, she should become an uber. Since she can't jump in rank, she can't copy the powers (at least not at uber levels, she could still drain them though).

But, if say you used one uber and three regs, you could steal the Surfer's power and bump Rogue up to uber level since you have an open uber slot.

[XFanTim]

Ok, something I knew I forgot, but the mention of Rogue reminded me.

Power-copiers.

The current rule (which I think I officially need to add to the rules) is that you cannot copy so many, or high enough, powers during a match that your character bumps up in rank. Unless you've made room for that.

So, if you're using Rogue as a reg and absorb the Surfer's power, she should become an uber. Since she can't jump in rank, she can't copy the powers (at least not at uber levels, she could still drain them though).

But, if say you used one uber and three regs, you could steal the Surfer's power and bump Rogue up to uber level since you have an open uber slot.

I think I would summarize the rule something like this:
If you do anything to increase your character's power level during the course of the match, the character's rank changes accordingly. If this rank change would make your lineup illegal, then you can't power up the character in that way.That was it's clear we're talking not just about stealing/copying powers but about anything you might do to power up your characters (e.g., giving them Thor's hammer or something).

[XFanTim]

The thing with her is, that her Mind Control is second to none. It even works on Robots. Unless she gets taken out quick, she can definately take over all but the strongest wills. And I'm talking top of the Willpower Pyramid. Guys who train not to be taken over.Can she control mutiple people at once? If it's just one at a time, I say no more than medium. Deadman is an untouchable ghost who can control one person (admittedly, not robots), and is still a reg. Various marvel mutants (Nocturne, Karma, etc.) also have possession powers, and are regs. So controlling one person + other uses of telepathy would probably make her a medium.

If she can potentially control a whole team, then I'd say she's an uber for the same reasons Xavier is. (Although Xavier has to be the most pathetic uber . . . he's like if you took Nate Grey or full-power Cable, then got rid of their telekinesis and their ability to walk. Actually, I think their telepathy is better than his, too, at least in terms of raw power. He's the perfect example of a character who'd beat damn near everyone at middle weight, but is totally pointless in comparison to other available ubers.)

[Aristotle]

We didn't end up banning any of the uber mages (except mine, Loki, for being too god-like or something . . . I don't really know if he's so much better than the others, but I didn't bother to contest it since so many good replacement mages were available.) The argument was that the "no uber powers during prep-time" made them less dominant. It stops them from throwing up a million magical defenses during prep-time, which in theory makes them more vulnerable to characters with high-level super speed like Superman or the Flash.OK.

See, I was under the impression that pre-crisis Superman was tuber, in which case I'd wonder if even the teenage version is too. But maybe I'm wrong, I haven't read too many of Superman's pre-crisis appearances.If KC Superman is legal, pre-Crisis Superman is legal. I think you could even argue that KC Superman is more powerful than pre-Crisis Superman. And I am not arguing that KC Superman is tuber, because he's clearly not (still got owned by Captain Marvel.)

No, they're still banned. Personally I've always preferred it that way. Too many of them never struck me as being intended to be serious characters, more like they just took two characters with similar names and mashed them together. ("Dr. Doomsday", etc.) I'm morally opposed any characters whose whole existence is based on a pun.What about Iron Lantern? Or hell, even Dark Claw?

[Khellendros]

If KC Superman is legal, pre-Crisis Superman is legal. I think you could even argue that KC Superman is more powerful than pre-Crisis Superman. And I am not arguing that KC Superman is tuber, because he's clearly not (still got owned by Captain Marvel.)You can definitely make that argument. Just don't expect it to succeed. Especially with his showings in JSA.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm happy with all the rankings I've gotten for my characters. Is trading now open?

Also, I'm a little confused about one thing: I got Captain America with Mjolnir (from a What If) in the draft, but he was an alternate for Thor, whom I also got. But when Tim listed the rosters, he switched Cap with Kasumi. So do I have Cap or Kasumi?

[XFanTim]

I'm happy with all the rankings I've gotten for my characters. Is trading now open?

Also, I'm a little confused about one thing: I got Captain America with Mjolnir (from a What If) in the draft, but he was an alternate for Thor, whom I also got. But when Tim listed the rosters, he switched Cap with Kasumi. So do I have Cap or Kasumi?I think Wieg made a mistake and didn't realize Cap was an alternate.

Since I had the lists, I was able to figure out who everyone was going to get immediately as soon as I saw the draft order, rather than waiting for Wieg to post it round by round. That's how I got the rosters posted so fast. So I didn't duplicate Wieg's error.

[Nightwing.]

Is it that we arent using current arc characters?

As in if they have used a power etc in the last so many months then they cant use it here?

[TheCorpulent1]

Okay, cool. I think Kasumi's a keeper anyway. :up:

[XFanTim]

Actually, the only part of the draft I didn't know in advance was who was getting Wally and Walter West, because that was the only time multiple people picked the same character in the same round (and thus it came down to draft order).

I didn't want to tell everyone too much in advance, though, so as not to spoil the drama. :)

[XFanTim]

Is it that we arent using current arc characters?

As in if they have used a power etc in the last so many months then they cant use it here?I think it's fine if they got a power in the last couple months. Just not if they get a new power after the start of the season.

[TheCorpulent1]

Flashes are pretty sought-after, apparently. I would've preferred Walter, since he's easily the best of the speedsters, but I'm happy with Krakkl. He's actually faster than Wally or Walter, even though he doesn't have as many speed tricks. Plus, I get an excuse to re-read "The Human Race," which is great.

[Khellendros]

Okay, so, who is Kasumi? Also, anyone can feel free to ask about my team, since I imagine a few of my names are unrecognizable.

[TheCorpulent1]

Kasumi is Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) while she was a member of the Justice League Elite. The only real difference is that she used two katanas and she had a more brutal and scary reputation. Mostly, I just didn't feel like having her as Batgirl again in light of how incredibly broken she's become in the comics since One Year Later.

[Aristotle]

So are you going lethal with her? Because if you are, you really should take post-OYL Batgirl instead. The Kasumi identity didn't actually kill, because she was really Cass Cain.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm aware of that. I don't want her to kill.

[Aristotle]

So this is just your little way of making a statement? I gotcha, that's cool.

[TheCorpulent1]

That, plus I like her Kasumi costume, which'll come in handy when I inevitably start drawing my team.

[Franklin Richards]

Kasumi vs Valkyrie? Swords at dawn?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

Not much of a swordfight given the Ebony Blade's vast superiority to a pair of normal katanas. But Kasumi's got a good chance of beating her hand-to-hand.

[XFanTim]

Okay, so, who is Kasumi? Also, anyone can feel free to ask about my team, since I imagine a few of my names are unrecognizable.I found profiles for Prince of Orphans (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Prince_of_Orphans_(John_Aman)), Mother-one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother-one), and Grail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grail_(WildStorm)), none of whom were familiar to me.

So I guess my only remaining questions are:
What are R'amey Holl's powers, beyond the fact that she's a Green Lantern?
How is the What If? Spider-Man different than regular Spider-Man?

[Nightwing.]

I think it's fine if they got a power in the last couple months. Just not if they get a new power after the start of the season.

So how is Captain Britain gonna have his powers based?

I dont want the emotion driven version in the current Mi13 arc. I'd prefer the whole going toe to toe with Thor without a risk of him loosing his abilities at the drop of a hat

[TheCorpulent1]

So just specify whatever period you're taking him from. His current powers shouldn't interfere with his powers from previous periods. For example, I've got Hadrian from Wildcats vol. 2, before he got his teleportation powers, so he's a middleweight rather than an uber.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, you can always choose to go with an earlier version. For instance, last season I had Magneto from before his early-'90s power-up so that I could get him as a medium.

I'm just saying the latest you can go is the version at the start of the season. So no including powers he gets after the season starts.

[Khellendros]

I found profiles for Prince of Orphans (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Prince_of_Orphans_(John_Aman)), Mother-one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother-one), and Grail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grail_(WildStorm)), none of whom were familiar to me.

So I guess my only remaining questions are:
What are R'amey Holl's powers, beyond the fact that she's a Green Lantern?
How is the What If? Spider-Man different than regular Spider-Man?

Actually, this is R'amey Holl after she was exposed to the meteor that gave Captain Comet his powers, after which she stopped using a GL ring (or the disks her covert ops team used in place of rings). She had massive telepathy, gravity manipulation and low level but very finely controlled telekinesis.

This version of Spider Man ended up being trained by a master assassin. So, same physical abilities but his spider sense became so fine tuned that the instant someone made the decision to hurt him, he would see exactly what they planned to do. Also, he'd added a feature to his webshooters that let them fire bullets as well. He wasn't evil, but he was much more comfortable with Wolverine's tactics and morals in a fight.

[wiegeabo]

Ok, I'm ready to put the schedule up, but I need some team names.

So, let's have 'em!

[wiegeabo]

Damn, I have a list of themes. But didn't we also have a list of battlefields we discussed? I can't find them.

[Khellendros]

The Spanish Inquisition.

[wiegeabo]

The Spanish Inquisition.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/tv/spanish_inquisition.jpg

[wiegeabo]

The schedule has been posted in the update thread. Each team will play the other team in their conference twice, and three of the teams in the other conference. There aren't enough teams to justify wildcards this time, so the top two teams at the end of the season will fight for the conference championship.

This schedule makes sure that both of Ari's teams, and Khell's (Ahura's) teams do not fight each other during the regular season. (If it happens during the playoffs, we'll deal with it then.)

Note that week six may be interesting because, if Khell is running the Immortals that week, he and Ari will be fighting each other twice. ;)

Once we have a start date, I'll work out the days the matches will take place and add the battlegrounds. Would anyone have a problem with starting on Wednesday (lineups due Tuesday)?

[wiegeabo]

Did some checking on battleground ideas. Wing was the only one I saw mention any. Other ideas are welcome so I don't have too recycle to many old ones.

[Franklin Richards]

Taa II
Deathstar
M'Kron Crystal
Mogo
Monster Island
Wundagore Mountain
Kandor
Titanic
Thunderdome
Cleveland
Pompei
That deepass trench in the ocean
Quick Stop
Jonestown, Guyana
Narnia
Bedrock
Riverdale


I'll think of some more later.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

OK, am I allowed to pick my second team now?

[Khellendros]

Nope.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, go for it.

[Khellendros]

The Spanish Inquisition.
This is my team name, in case that was unclear.

[Nightwing.]

Just noticed in the update thread in the rules section you've listed an example of a middleweight as Captain Britain

Is this right? Should my Cap be MM?

The sword alone shouldnt bump him up to Uber considering the ability to rip open the cosmos isnt in use and its pretty much the same style blade as the Ebony Blade in that its indestructible...

Can someone clarify? He's gone toe to toe with Thor but lost. Would people agree Medium or Uber?

[Nightwing.]

Heroes of the New Age (Owner - Nightwing)
Martian Manhunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Manhunter) (DU) 1 (http://www.comicvine.com/martian-manhunter/2047/)
Juggernaut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut_%28comics%29) (MU)
Superman (Kingdom Come) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Come_%28comic%29) (DU)
Captain Britain (w/Excalibur) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Britain) (MU)
Replicant (http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/replicant.html) (DU)
The Turtle (http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/turtle.html) (DU)
Psylocke (telekinesis) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psylocke) (MM)
Batman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman) (DR)
Captain America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America) (MR)
Zauriel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zauriel) (DR)
The Atom (Ray Palmer) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28Ray_Palmer%29) (DR)
Black Panther (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comics)) (MR)

Links to put in the update thread for my team

Also just to ask...Am I right in thinking Black Panther still has the Kimoyo card and the Ebony Blade etc?

[XFanTim]

Also just to ask...Am I right in thinking Black Panther still has the Kimoyo card and the Ebony Blade etc?I think so. In any case, you can have the version that has them.

[wiegeabo]

I'm pretty much going to be offline today because of training for work. So I'll once again need to defer to my second in command until tonight on various issues.

Do me proud, Number One.



We're all doomed! :facepalm

[wiegeabo]

In the meantime, would everyone be so kind as to provide links to the characters in your lineups? This way we can better judge ranks for new characters, as well as prepare for out upcoming battles.

[Aristotle]

I'd like to re-request the allowance of Green Lantern/Bruce Wayne (Darkest Knight). We've seen him in action as a veteran now, thanks to Countdown: Arena. We also know that he's not just some Elseworlds character, he's legitimately from an alternate universe of the 52. This all happened in the middle of last season, which is why these things couldn't be considered in the discussion last season. But now we know more, and I argue that he should be allowed in. If he is, I'm picking him up.

[wiegeabo]

Well, that begs the question...Are the officially 52 valid now?

[Aristotle]

Is there a reason they wouldn't be? Every universe in the Marvel multiverse is allowed. Pre-COIE multiverse universes are allowed. Hypertimelines are allowed. Why wouldn't the 52 be allowed?

[Nightwing.]

I think so. In any case, you can have the version that has them.

Cool...Well could he be updated on my line up to show having the Ebony Blade?

Also what rank is Captain Britain? Weig mentioned in the update thread that an example for a medium is Cap Britain. And Excalibur wouldnt affect the ranking I dont think. I'd be happy with him being a medium but im not fussed either way...

any ideas folks?

[wiegeabo]

Because, before, they weren't part of the DC universe. Like Wildstorm.

But last season I allowed Wildstorm because it had been made part of the 52. So I also think that should extend to all the 52 universes.

[Aristotle]

So Green Lantern/Bruce Wayne is in?

[wiegeabo]

I would say so.

*goes to add GL/Wayne to his team :p*

[XFanTim]

Can you give me examples of how strong/fast/durable Captain Britain is? If he's no more strong/durable than, say, the Thing, then he should certainly be a medium, unless Excalibur is a really awesome weapon. What does the sword do, exactly? Is it just a really sharp unbreakable sword, or what?

[wiegeabo]

I would say so.

*goes to add GL/Wayne to his team :p*

[wiegeabo]

Can you give me examples of how strong/fast/durable Captain Britain is? If he's no more strong/durable than, say, the Thing, then he should certainly be a medium, unless Excalibur is a really awesome weapon. What does the sword do, exactly? Is it just a really sharp unbreakable sword, or what?

Didn't the use of Excalibur bump his rank up? It has everything up to reality warping abilities (which were obviously banned from competition).

[Franklin Richards]

With Excalibur I'd liken him to Thor or Wonder Woman.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[XFanTim]

It has everything up to reality warping abilities (which were obviously banned from competition).
Are you saying the sword gives him reality-warping powers, but we're pretending it doesn't in order to make him a legal character?

If that's the case, I think we shouldn't allow him to have the sword, rather than pretending it doesn't grant that power.

[wiegeabo]

Yes, that's how it had been done for Cap B.

But since we are now basing ranks more on character potential rather than specific attributes, Excalibur probably should be an all or nothing item.

[Nightwing.]

Excalibur was used to repair a rip in the cosmos. Unless that is a battleground then I dont think it should be a factor. The sword is indestructible and only the worthy can wield it. It can cut through mystical barriers and deflect magic.

[XFanTim]

Does it enhance Captain Britain's physical stats? (strength, durability, etc.)

[Aristotle]

Excalibur was used to repair a rip in the cosmos. Unless that is a battleground then I dont think it should be a factor.1) Was that the only time it ever warped reality?
2) I still think that demonstrates massive reality-warping potential, to refer back to wieg's post. I mean, is repairing a rip in the cosmos really that different from opening one, for example? I think that's a wild card that can't be allowed in. Too blank of a check. Characters have been barred for that kind of open-ended question-mark on their power limits.

[wiegeabo]

Maybe a little perspective on the weapon. How does it compare, say, to Mjolnir?

[Franklin Richards]

I thought only the worthy could pull it out of the stone. Anyone can wield it. Doom has done it several times over 30 years.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[TheCorpulent1]

To put it in perspective, Excalibur's most recent showing was in Captain Britain & MI-13's first arc. Merlin resurrected Brian and, with Excalibur, Brian was able to turn the tide against the Super-Skrull army invading Britain for a time. Ultimately, sheer numbers overwhelmed even Brian with the sword, and Pete Wisdom had to save the day by calling in a favor owed to him by some evil magic demons, which he used to have them mystically bar Skrulls from existing within the borders of the UK. So Excalibur is impressive, as it was able to tear through dozens of Super-Skrulls with a single stroke, but it doesn't make Brian invincible or anything. Still, it did take an army of the souped-up Super-Skrulls from Secret Invasion to even start putting a dent in Brian with Excalibur, so my guess would be that it's too powerful. That's just my gut reaction, though; I'm not 100% sure of everything it's capable of or what its limits are.

[Franklin Richards]

I say allow it so Doom can turn it against Captain Brit. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

I don't think I've ever met someone with such an unabashed love for a particular character as you have for Dr. Doom.

[Franklin Richards]

And proud of it. :D

And surely you've met a Batman, Joker, or Kyle Rayner fan, right?


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

I am all three. And my love for them is great, but it doesn't match up to how much love you have for Doom.

[Franklin Richards]

I'll put that feather in my cap then.


Hail Doom!


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/marvel/Doom-Banned-1.jpg

[Franklin Richards]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/marvel/Doom-Banned-1.jpg

Click and Save!


:up:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

Click and Save!


:up:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

:word:

[Nightwing.]

Excalibur cant do half the things that Mjolnir can. Its a powerful sword that can cut through anything but so is the Ebony Blade...it doesnt grant Cap with any extra power etc thats just him. It used to be his suit but now its just his magical nature after Merlin brought him back to life after being killed by Fury. The sword was used in house of M to repair a rip in the cosmos and even then it require Betsy Braddocks help as well it wasnt all the sword. But im struggling to find examples of its power as ive got a lot of Cap B comics and it would mean reading through them all again

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, no offense, but we all have to do a little research from time to time. If you can't come up with some kind of concrete list of things Excalibur can and can't do, I would vote to ban it under the same parameters that What If characters who only appear for a panel or two are banned: there's just not enough information to judge its power in a match. I certainly wouldn't want to go up against Captain Britain with Excalibur if the only thing I know about Excalibur is that it can cut through anything and maybe it can kind of warp reality and probably do some other stuff.

[TheCorpulent1]

What's the current policy on assumed powers? Like, let's take the Bruce Wayne Green Lantern. He didn't display all of the typical powers you'd expect a GL to have in his one Elseworld appearance, but I think we could reasonably assume he'd be as capable with the ring as any veteran, since he seemed even more capable in that appearance than other veteran Lanterns like Katma Tui. Would it be reasonable to everyone else to assume that he can do all the stuff that the best GLs like Hal and Kyle and John could do, even though he's not explicitly shown using all of those powers in a comic?

[Franklin Richards]

I don't think he would. Did he utilize the AI? What's the name and number of this comic so I can pick it up.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, it's from way back in the pre-CoIE era, so I don't think the rings had AI at that point. I mean, sure, he'd be subject to period-specific limitations like the yellow impurity, but I was wondering if he'd be able to do, say, everything Hal Jordan of the same period (in-continuity, naturally) could, in spite of the fact that we never see him do a lot of them. It seems reasonable to me given that he has only one appearance, as opposed to Hal's many appearances in that period, and the intent seemed to be that Bruce would be one of the greatest GLs around in that Elseworld, just as Hal was in that period in continuity.

The title was Batman: In Darkest Knight.

[Franklin Richards]

Ok. I'm confused. We CAN have What if's and Elseworlds if they are in more than one comic? And we can have any character, no matter what universe, as long as they've been in more than one comic?

:gl: :gl: :gl:

[TheCorpulent1]

Number of appearances doesn't matter. It's whether or not they've had a reasonably detailed description of their powers in their appearance(s). Bruce Wayne as a GL certainly had a detailed description of his powers in In Darkest Knight by using them many times.

My question is whether we can count all the other uses of Green Lantern powers from that period and assume that Bruce, as a very intelligent and resourceful individual who was clearly rising to prominence among the Corps almost as soon as he was selected in In Darkest Knight, has access to them and knowledge of how to use them. GL powers tend to stay the same across the Multiverse, so unless specifically stated otherwise (which it wasn't in In Darkest Knight), I think we could assume that Bruce would work as well as any main-DCU GL from that period. For example, if he never phased through solid matter in In Darkest Knight, could we still assume that he could phase through solid matter, given that Hal and others did so during the pre-CoIE era?

I'm only using Bruce as an example, though. My question actually pertains to another alternaverse character with a similar situation. I just don't want to mention who I'm actually thinking about so someone else doesn't swoop in and draft them while I'm sorting this out.

[wiegeabo]

Well, with GL/Wayne, I'd say yes. He might not be the most skilled (like Hal or Kilowog), but in Countdown Arena he at least had average GL skills.

Also, just because this is Bruce Wayne, it doesn't mean it's Batman with a ring. I think he had the training, but not the experience.

[Aristotle]

The key with Green Lantern/Bruce Wayne is that he also appeared in Countdown Arena, and he was plenty skilled. Matter of fact, he knew how to rejigger his ring so that it didn't prevent lethal blasts, which to my knowledge, no other GL had ever figured.

As for whether he's "Batman with a ring": He did have the training. He obviously hasn't had the experience as Batman, but he's certainly had the experience as Green Lantern and regardless, the training does count for quite a bit. And he does have Batman's intellect, because he's Bruce Wayne.

[TheCorpulent1]

He also received the ring after his first attempt at crimefighting, as I recall. That means he still has all of Bruce Wayne's training prior to actually becoming Batman, which still makes him a ridiculously awesome detective and a master at various sciences.

But, now that I've drafted Captain America with Mjolnir from What If: Age of Apocalypse, I can just come right out and ask: Would it be reasonable to show Cap using more of Mjolnir's abilities than just the god-level physical stats, lightning bolts, and flight that comic showed him with? Mjolnir's capable of more than that and, given Cap's tendency to practice constantly, it seems reasonable that he would be aware of and well practiced with those other abilities. I'm talking about some basic energy manipulation and the ability to open teleportation portals, not super-high-level stuff like the godblast (which Cap shouldn't be able to do, lacking in divine essence as he is).

[Aristotle]

I don't think you can, because we're still only allowed to show what has been seen on-panel. You don't have Cap/Mjolnir from years down the road, you have the one we saw on-panel.

[TheCorpulent1]

Cap had had the hammer for at least a year prior to the events portrayed in the comic, which gives him plenty of time to get experienced with it. The situation shown didn't necessarily call for those powers to be used, either. Thor doesn't use those powers in every appearance.

To give a comparable example: Proctor wasn't shown using very many of the Ebony Blade's abilities in his comic appearances, but we've always assumed he's capable of using them because he's had it for a long time and we've seen what Earth-616's Dane Whitman could do with it in the time he's had it.

[Khellendros]

You know he's been using some pretty powerful magic recently, right?

Took Sentry out with a spell in a recent issue of one of the Avengers books, and I THINK he was using his armor to cast spells, like Stark Supreme does. I could be wrong about that, though... His magic isn't uber level, but if you have an excellent medium in terms of armor and tech and then adding medium-level magic, that says Uber to me.

EDIT: Yep, issue nine of Mighty Avengers, looks like the armor casts the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak for him. Issue ten, he, Stark and Sentry travel back in time, and the spell he casts to take out Sentry is the ONLY one that he speaks, even though he uses an unknown spell to attack IM.
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't read Mighty Avengers, so I don't know.

[Aristotle]

Sounds like any version of Doom with that kind of magic should be uber. So, how about a re-ranking on Doom 2099?

[wiegeabo]

Sounds like he might need a new rank.

[Aristotle]

I don't have to, like, formally request it in the Rankings thread, do I?

As an aside, this should disallow Frank's Doom, which is ranked as a med, from using magic.

[Ahura Mazda]

Cap had had the hammer for at least a year prior to the events portrayed in the comic, which gives him plenty of time to get experienced with it. The situation shown didn't necessarily call for those powers to be used, either. Thor doesn't use those powers in every appearance.

To give a comparable example: Proctor wasn't shown using very many of the Ebony Blade's abilities in his comic appearances, but we've always assumed he's capable of using them because he's had it for a long time and we've seen what Earth-616's Dane Whitman could do with it in the time he's had it.

I do not agree that Cap would have full use of everything plus his stats are not exactly at Thor level if Thunderstrike is anything to go by. If I remeber well even when he had Mjollnir his stats were not as high as Thor himself.

I personally do not see what advantage there is in having Cap taking up Mjollnir as I do not think he would be better then Thor himself.

[Nightwing.]

ok so i've done some digging with Cap and Excalibur on the internet and this is what ive found out about it

In Excalibur:Sword of Power,a 2001 mini,it is said that when the sword is used in conjunction with the amulet of right by the predestined ruler of Otherworld (everyone else will be incinerated) it can destroy and recreate the Omniverse itself.
Its power is said to be beyond the comprehension of even the most powerful entities of the Multiverse;to wield Excalibur is to hold the hand of God itself.

now there is a key element to making Excalibur use this power of oniverse destroying size and that is that it has to be used in conjunction with the Amulet of right which used to be worn, then it was fused into his suit and they gave him his power but now he gets his power directly from Otherworld which he has a link to and therefore the Amulet is no longer in play thus making Excalibur a safe weapon in the sense that it has the same skills as the Ebony Blade yet as it is magically enhanced it can cut through magical barriers and deflect.

[TheCorpulent1]

I do not agree that Cap would have full use of everything plus his stats are not exactly at Thor level if Thunderstrike is anything to go by. If I remeber well even when he had Mjollnir his stats were not as high as Thor himself.

I personally do not see what advantage there is in having Cap taking up Mjollnir as I do not think he would be better then Thor himself.
You remember wrong. Eric Masterson was literally wearing Thor's body when he had Mjolnir, so he had Thor's full power. The only reason he came off like a chump is because he lacked all of Thor's experience and fighting skill. When he gave Mjolnir back to Thor and got the Thunderstrike mace, only then were his physical stats dropped to slightly below Thor's.

But you're probably right. This argument seems to be a major uphill battle for me, so f*** it, I'm just gonna trade Cap with Mjolnir back for Thor.

[Ahura Mazda]

You remember wrong. Eric Masterson was literally wearing Thor's body when he had Mjolnir, so he had Thor's full power. The only reason he came off like a chump is because he lacked all of Thor's experience and fighting skill. When he gave Mjolnir back to Thor and got the Thunderstrike mace, only then were his physical stats dropped to slightly below Thor's.

But you're probably right. This argument seems to be a major uphill battle for me, so f*** it, I'm just gonna trade Cap with Mjolnir back for Thor.

Ok and I think you are making a wise decision here :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

I just wanted something different, since I tend to take Thor every season. It's too much hassle, though.

[XFanTim]

Sounds like any version of Doom with that kind of magic should be uber. So, how about a re-ranking on Doom 2099?

I argued this case in much more detail over in the rankings thread, but I just want to reiterate that Doom 2099 has the same level magic that Doom had circa 1999. The authors writing at the time couldn't have known that Doom would get a magical upgrade in the following decade.

He was fine as a medium all last season, and even extending back further I think. He's not someone I forced in as a med -- in fact I picked him up from someone else's discarded team half way through the season. The fact that the present-day Doom has had a recent magical upgrade should have no bearing on Doom 2099's rank.

[Nightwing.]

ok so i've done some digging with Cap and Excalibur on the internet and this is what ive found out about it

In Excalibur:Sword of Power,a 2001 mini,it is said that when the sword is used in conjunction with the amulet of right by the predestined ruler of Otherworld (everyone else will be incinerated) it can destroy and recreate the Omniverse itself.
Its power is said to be beyond the comprehension of even the most powerful entities of the Multiverse;to wield Excalibur is to hold the hand of God itself.

now there is a key element to making Excalibur use this power of oniverse destroying size and that is that it has to be used in conjunction with the Amulet of right which used to be worn, then it was fused into his suit and they gave him his power but now he gets his power directly from Otherworld which he has a link to and therefore the Amulet is no longer in play thus making Excalibur a safe weapon in the sense that it has the same skills as the Ebony Blade yet as it is magically enhanced it can cut through magical barriers and deflect.

any decisions then? Is excalibur allowed? and if its not does that mean that Cap B drops to a medium?

[TheCorpulent1]

Wasn't Brian class 100? I think everyone in that strength range defaults to uber. He's basically like Superman without heat vision.

[Nightwing.]

Yeah I guess...but do you still think Excalibur should be banned? Without the Amulet of right its just a blade alot like the ebony blade

[Franklin Richards]

I don't think Excalibur should be banned. As long as you use it when you face my team.




And Doom.


Bwahahahaha!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/DTL/Doom-Banned-1.jpg


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

I argued this case in much more detail over in the rankings thread, but I just want to reiterate that Doom 2099 has the same level magic that Doom had circa 1999. The authors writing at the time couldn't have known that Doom would get a magical upgrade in the following decade.

He was fine as a medium all last season, and even extending back further I think. He's not someone I forced in as a med -- in fact I picked him up from someone else's discarded team half way through the season. The fact that the present-day Doom has had a recent magical upgrade should have no bearing on Doom 2099's rank.Present-day Doom plus magic also got ubered. It was a ranking decision on Doom/magic in general. Khel brought it up, and I agreed.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah I guess...but do you still think Excalibur should be banned? Without the Amulet of right its just a blade alot like the ebony blade
I don't know. I don't recall seeing it without the amulet. Really, my only exposure to it is from that Exalibur: Sword of Power mini. I'll have to look that series over again to form an opinion.

[XFanTim]

Present-day Doom plus magic also got ubered. It was a ranking decision on Doom/magic in general. Khel brought it up, and I agreed.
But the 2099 version doesn't have as much magic as the present day (2008) version. He only has as much magic as Doom had circa 1999 (when the 2099 stories were being written). Which so far as I know is no more magic than Doom has had since the '60s. He's always had a little magic.

In other words, he isn't Doom + magic. In terms of magic, he's classic Doom.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep, Doom only started using magic in a major way in "Unthinkable," which came a long time after 1999. Before that he was more like a novice with a few tricks, not Doctor Strange-level. Even after the "Unthinkable" upgrade (which he had to get by bargaining with demons), he only beat Strange because he took Strange completely by surprise.

[XFanTim]

Exactly, the changes in Doom's magic in Unthinkable and other recent stories have no bearing on 2099 continuity, which was established almost a decade ago.

Doom 2099 is literally just classic Doom with an armor upgrade. Which is great and all, but it's never been enough to push him to uber before, and I don't see any reason that should change.

[Franklin Richards]

I'm staying out of the Doom arguments because I have a few tricks up my sleeve and I don't want to give them away in an argument.

As for Doom 2099, go ahead and make him Medium. He's no match for the one true Doom. That timeline doesn't even exist anymore

Maybe he could take out Kristoff. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

These are all fascinating arguments, and I do care about them (being as I started half of them), but I'd also really like to start playing. Can we please start playing?

[Khellendros]

Nope.

[Franklin Richards]

Taa II
Deathstar
M'Kron Crystal
Mogo
Monster Island
Wundagore Mountain
Kandor
Titanic
Thunderdome
Cleveland
Pompei
That deepass trench in the ocean
Quick Stop
Jonestown, Guyana
Narnia
Bedrock
Riverdale


I'll think of some more later.




Here's the first ones, if ya missed it.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

"That deepass trench in the ocean"?

[wiegeabo]

Mariannes Trench

[TheCorpulent1]

I knew that, I just thought the phrasing was funny.

Have the locations really been worked out yet?

[Franklin Richards]

So are these two Midnighters different secret identities?


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Khellendros]

No, just different versions of the same character. Kinda like Pre- and Post-crisis.

[TheCorpulent1]

Any difference in powers, or is it basically just because you both wanted Midnighter?

[Franklin Richards]

So two different universes?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Khellendros]

Any difference in powers, or is it basically just because you both wanted Midnighter?Ari threw a long, drawn out hissy fit when I got Midnighter, so I tossed him that bone.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ah, okay.

[Khellendros]

So two different universes?


:thing: :doom: :thing:No. Same universe, just rebooted.

[Franklin Richards]

So we can have the same character with the same powers and the same secret identity as long as they were rebooted?

That doesn't sound right.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

That does sound a little suspect, now that you mention it.

[Khellendros]

Hey, don't look at me, I drafted Midnighter first last season. This was just the result of Ari being desperate to get his own version of Midnighter.

[Aristotle]

Nope, we can have two versions of one secret identity. That's the rule. I tried to draft about a thousand different versions of Midnighter and Khel shot them down because he wanted to have the only Midnighter.

As I'm thinking about things, it was actually Corp's idea to do the Pre- and Post-Worldstorm.

[TheCorpulent1]

Bwah? Search option, here I come.

[Khellendros]

Hahaha

[Franklin Richards]

So I could have Spider-man Pre-BND or Post-BND?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

To me, that's a different kind of reboot. The Post-Worldstorm universe was, in terms of in-universe history, as different from the Pre-Worldstorm universe as Post-Crisis and Pre-Crisis.

[TheCorpulent1]

Nope, we can have two versions of one secret identity. That's the rule. I tried to draft about a thousand different versions of Midnighter and Khel shot them down because he wanted to have the only Midnighter.

As I'm thinking about things, it was actually Corp's idea to do the Pre- and Post-Worldstorm.
It was Harlekin, actually, and the fact that it was a rebooted status quo seemed enough to justify the pre- and post-Worldstorm picks for wieg.
So I could have Spider-man Pre-BND or Post-BND?


:thing: :doom: :thing:
Given that there's only one other version of Peter Parker on a roster right now, yeah, I suppose you could take either.

[Franklin Richards]

I don't want him. I just thought I'd bring up an example.


I don't like this "reboot" rule.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Khellendros]

Too bad! You sit quietly in the corner with your Doom doll until your match starts!

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not new, it's just that there's generally been more to differentiate pre- and post-reboot characters before.

[Aristotle]

It was Harlekin, actuallyI used to mix you two up in my head a lot back then. Don't really know why. Maybe you had similar avatars.

and the fact that it was a rebooted status quo seemed enough to justify the pre- and post-Worldstorm picks for wieg.And rightly so. They're different universes.

Given that there's only one other version of Peter Parker on a roster right now, yeah, I suppose you could take either.That one is an either/or, though, in my view. The universe isn't different, it's the same universe but with changes. But you always have the freedom to choose a character before or after specific events.

[Nightwing.]

I don't know. I don't recall seeing it without the amulet. Really, my only exposure to it is from that Exalibur: Sword of Power mini. I'll have to look that series over again to form an opinion.

Yeah im gonna do some research of my own...

And yes the sword has been used without the Amulet of Right before but the point I was making was it needs to be used with the Amulet of Right to destroy the omniverse...

[TheCorpulent1]

Mkay.

Speaking of magic/unbreakable/cut-through-anything swords, is there like a standing rule that two of them wouldn't be able to cut through each other? Like, say the Ebony Blade and Excalibur hit each other; could we just assume their respective cut-through-anything-ness would cancel the other's out and they'd clang off each other like normal blades? I think that would be a good rule to have rather than people arguing that Dragonfang would cut through the Jabberwock's Bane or Nemesis' swords would cut through Wolverine's claws every other match. There are few canon sources for this sort of thing, but the few I've seen--specifically, when Wolverine's claws have connected with the Ebony Blade in X-Men vs. Avengers and when one of Nemesis' swords has connected with Zealot's sword in Wildcats: Nemesis--seem to back up the idea that these sorts of blades don't cut through each other the way they would anything else. In both of those instances, the blades connected and both came away intact. I think that'd be a good standing rule to implement for the DTL.

[Franklin Richards]

I assume the Light Saber rules are in effect.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

Ha, that is an apt title for it, isn't it? Cool, just checking.

Now, what about stuff like Mjolnir? It's not bladed, but even magic bladed weapons have been ineffective at cutting through it. As far as I recall, only one thing ever cut through it and that was the Dark God Perrikus' scythe. Thor ultimately repaired it and kicked his ass later, but still, unless there's a specific instance of a weapon cutting through it, as with Perrikus' scythe, I think it's safe to assume Mjolnir wouldn't be cut by other magic/indestructible weapons.

[Franklin Richards]

Only thing I've seen take it apart is Molecule Man. Even Surfer's molecular manipulation had no effect in Defenders / Avengers war.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

Where does transmutation come into these unbreakable/indestructible things? I mean, magic **** is still made of atoms.

[TheCorpulent1]

As Franklin mentioned, the Molecule Man was able to take Thor's hammer apart, but that's very rare and Molecule Man is basically a top-tier transmuter. The way I understand it is that magic and cosmic stuff is generally very hard, if not impossible, for transmuters to change. Sersi couldn't transmute anything that had a cosmic power source, for example. Magneto tried to control the uru metal of Mjolnir and failed because of its magical nature. Stuff like that. I'm looking up those issues with Molecule Man now, in fact, to see under just what circumstances he was able to take Mjolnir apart.

[Aristotle]

What about magical transmutation?

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, I don't think I've seen anyone try. You could guess that no one's tried because it would be futile, but there's no canon source to back it up either way, as far as I know. Someone else may cite some obscure source I don't know about, though.

Anyway, the Molecule Man was basically at the height of his power in those Avengers issues, casually recreating his own body and kicking the Silver Surfer's ass by leaving him halfway merged with some rocks until Thor freed him. When he dissolved Thor's hammer, he also dissolved Cap's shield, Iron Man's armor, and the Silver Surfer's board. He recreates them from their original molecules in the next issue because Tigra talks him out of being such a dick. He says he's gonna start seeing a therapist, which I guess makes him like a pre-Sentry Sentry.

[Aristotle]

So are we saying uber-level transmutation is what it takes to **** with the indestructible stuff? Or tuber-level?

[TheCorpulent1]

Molecule Man's the only one I can think of who's messed with indestructible stuff and he's pretty clearly tuber to me, so I'd say tuber-level. At least for magic- and cosmic-powered indestructible stuff. Adamantium's not quite as hard to affect. Its density makes it tough to mess with or phase through (at least for the Vision, since he phases by decreasing his density), but it's clearly not immune to all f***wittage given Magneto's ability to easily manipulate Wolverine's adamantium.

[wiegeabo]

Yeah, I'd say a top transmutter/metal manipulator could have a chance at affecting adamantium (the above mention ripping out of Wolverine's during Fatal Attractions). But Ebony Blade, probably not.

[TheCorpulent1]

Molecule Man's definitely tuber, right? He's like Sersi to the nth degree.

[XFanTim]

I agree that we should generally assume that "cut through anything" swords can't cut each other unless proven otherwise.

I also don't think they should be able to cut through Thor's hammer. Certainly the Ebony Blade can't cut it, since it can't cut adamantium, and I'm pretty convinced Thor's hammer is more unbreakable than adamantium. As I recall, when King Thor bashed Cap's shield with his hammer, the shield was dented and the hammer still intact, suggesting Thor's hammer is even stronger than Cap's shield, which we know is superior to ordinary adamantium.

I also think that magical unbreakable swords and weapons should be basically impossible to transmute or to bend with magnetism. To merely move them around with magnetism shouldn't be hard though. Magneto has magnetically shoved Thor's hammer away lots of times. See here (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/MightilyOats/Magneto87.jpg) for instance.

On the other hand, I think non-magical "unbreakable" metals like adamantium should still be possible to transmute or magnetically warp, because it's the laws of physics (or at least comic-book physics) that make them strong, and thus powers that effect atomic structure or inter-atomic forces should be able to weaken them. It is established in other instances that Magneto can use his powers to strengthen or weaken the bonds that hold metals together. For instance, when Polaris (who is just Magneto-lite) was possessed by Malice and fought Rogue, she wrapped Rogue in some steel girders and magnetically strengthened them to the point that Rogue couldn't break free.

[XFanTim]

I would assume that at least the "no mental blocks" Molecule Man (pre Secret Wars) is tuber. I know Molecule Man with mental blocks couldn't effect organics, and hadn't figured out how to do things like travel through hyperspace. I don't know if his limits are enough to make him a legal uber, though. (For what it's worth, I think someone with superspeed could beat him since he just has regular human durability and speed.)

[XFanTim]

Molecule Man's definitely tuber, right? He's like Sersi to the nth degree.
Again, Molecule Man with mental blocks is inferior to Sersi in some ways, since he can't transmute organic matter at all, whereas Sersi is about the best transmuter of organics I know. She can transmute someone from one species to another and keep them alive through the process. Who else can do that without true magic?

[Khellendros]

Umm. Am I going insane or is the Update thread missing?

[Aristotle]

I still haven't seen anything to suggest that magical transmutation wouldn't work on magically unbreakable items. See if you follow me on this: the reason that the items are not susceptible to normal, physically-based transmutation is that they are magically protected. However, if the transmutation itself is magical, it should be successful.

[XFanTim]

Regarding the question of what counts as a distinct version of a character:

We had been saying that if they're from two different universes, they're automatically different, even if in all other ways they're identical. For instance, we had Thanos and Thanos (Millennial Visions), even though the Millennial Visions really is just the same character but from a story outside usual continuity.

Since we treated pre-Crisis and post-Crisis as essentially too different universes, the same was assumed to apply for pre-Worldstorm and post-Worldstorm.

We also have been treating a character as distinct if their powers changed or were upgraded/downgraded, or if they had a drastic personality shift (not "a little older and wiser" but more like "went from good to evil).

And we have a strict limit on two total versions of a character in the league (based on who they are "under the mask", so Captain America and Nomad (Steve Rogers) are the same, but Green Lantern (Hal) and Green Lantern (Kyle) aren't.)

[XFanTim]

double post

[XFanTim]

I still haven't seen anything to suggest that magical transmutation wouldn't work on magically unbreakable items. See if you follow me on this: the reason that the items are not susceptible to normal, physically-based transmutation is that they are magically protected. However, if the transmutation itself is magical, it should be successful.I would think maybe it depends on the relative strength of the two different magics. E.g., I'm not sure I'd buy someone transmuting Mjolnir, since that's an enchantment from tuber-level Odin. But using magic to transform a lower-level magic sword might work.

[Khellendros]

So that's a yes on the Update thing?

[TheCorpulent1]

I still haven't seen anything to suggest that magical transmutation wouldn't work on magically unbreakable items. See if you follow me on this: the reason that the items are not susceptible to normal, physically-based transmutation is that they are magically protected. However, if the transmutation itself is magical, it should be successful.
I haven't either, but I also haven't seen anything to suggest it would be successful. Many magical items absorb energy, after all. Thor's hammer soaks up energy that's directed at it, which is why he can use it to shield himself from energy blasts all the time, so if someone directs magical energy in the form of a spell at it, I doubt it would have much effect.

How descriptive do the brief descriptions have to be again? I'm noticing I have to write a lot to convey the powers various characters' weapons and equipment have. Would "magic swords" be enough for the Black Knight, for example, or do I have to go into more detail like "magic swords that can cut through virtually anything, absorb, deflect, and redirect energy, blah-dee-blah-f***ing-blah"?

[wiegeabo]

So that's a yes on the Update thing?

It's there. Corp just renamed it and deleted some unused posts so it moved down the list for some reason.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=285281

[TheCorpulent1]

I can sticky it to the top of the forum if you want.

[Franklin Richards]

Molecule Man should prolly be left as Tuber in any incarnation. Molecular manipulation should prolly be dealt with like Power Copiers. Especially at his level. I don't even want to get into the Cosmic Cube stuff.

As for magical transmutation working on Unique Weapons. Well if that worked on weapons of that magnitude, don't you think Loki would have destroyed Mjolnir a long time ago?

Unique Weapons > Magical Transmutation


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[XFanTim]

I can sticky it to the top of the forum if you want.

That's a great idea.

[TheCorpulent1]

Molecule Man should prolly be left as Tuber in any incarnation. Molecular manipulation should prolly be dealt with like Power Copiers. Especially at his level. I don't even want to get into the Cosmic Cube stuff.

As for magical transmutation working on Unique Weapons. Well if that worked on weapons of that magnitude, don't you think Loki would have destroyed Mjolnir a long time ago?

Unique Weapons > Magical Transmutation


:doom: :doom: :doom:
That's my thought as well, but it's just as speculative as believing magical transmutation would work.

As for transmuters, I tend to agree. Having used Sersi on numerous occasions, I confess that she was so powerful I found myself having to dumb her down a bit to make the fights interesting. Instead of just transmuting half the opposing team into sheep, I had her only stick to ubers and transmute only bits and pieces or layers of skin or the air around them instead of just turning anyone without a cosmic power source into a giraffe outright.

[wiegeabo]

That's a great idea.

It is. Would you sticky all four threads? (Discussion, Transaction, Ranking, Update)

[XFanTim]

Molecule Man should prolly be left as Tuber in any incarnation. Molecular manipulation should prolly be dealt with like Power Copiers. Especially at his level. I don't even want to get into the Cosmic Cube stuff.

As for magical transmutation working on Unique Weapons. Well if that worked on weapons of that magnitude, don't you think Loki would have destroyed Mjolnir a long time ago?

Unique Weapons > Magical TransmutationOr, maybe Loki can't transmute Mjolnir because Odin > Loki. Like I said, I could see it just coming down to whose magic is greater -- the person who wants to transmute the weapon or the person who created it.

[TheCorpulent1]

It is. Would you sticky all four threads? (Discussion, Transaction, Ranking, Update)
Okay.

[wiegeabo]

Another automatic win for Corp!

[TheCorpulent1]

Yay me!

[Franklin Richards]

Any clue on the first environment?


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Khellendros]

WE ARE ON THE DEVIL'S PAGE! REPENT, YE SINNERS AND SODOMITES, LEST ye BE SMOTE.

[wiegeabo]

Page 799?

[XFanTim]

WE ARE ON THE DEVIL'S PAGE! REPENT, YE SINNERS AND SODOMITES, LEST ye BE SMOTE.

For me it's page 799. Either I'm unaware of the evil connotations of the number . . . or we're displaying different numbers of posts per page.

Edited to add: You can change the setting in userCP "Edit Options"

[Khellendros]

I must've changed my posts-per-page settings and forgotten. Because it shows us on page 666 when I log in.

[Aristotle]

I kind of prefer the number of beast being 799. You know? Seems a little more down-home to me. Little less foreboding. Sort of a George Bush devil, as opposed to, say, a Margaret Thatcher devil.

[Nightwing.]

Mkay.

Speaking of magic/unbreakable/cut-through-anything swords, is there like a standing rule that two of them wouldn't be able to cut through each other? Like, say the Ebony Blade and Excalibur hit each other; could we just assume their respective cut-through-anything-ness would cancel the other's out and they'd clang off each other like normal blades? I think that would be a good rule to have rather than people arguing that Dragonfang would cut through the Jabberwock's Bane or Nemesis' swords would cut through Wolverine's claws every other match. There are few canon sources for this sort of thing, but the few I've seen--specifically, when Wolverine's claws have connected with the Ebony Blade in X-Men vs. Avengers and when one of Nemesis' swords has connected with Zealot's sword in Wildcats: Nemesis--seem to back up the idea that these sorts of blades don't cut through each other the way they would anything else. In both of those instances, the blades connected and both came away intact. I think that'd be a good standing rule to implement for the DTL.


Yes I agree that both swords would stalemate and thus the battle would then be decided by swordsmanship,strength and other abilities..but yes ive always been under the impression that The Ebony Blade and Excalibur would counter each other.

[Nightwing.]

I agree that we should generally assume that "cut through anything" swords can't cut each other unless proven otherwise.

I also don't think they should be able to cut through Thor's hammer. Certainly the Ebony Blade can't cut it, since it can't cut adamantium, and I'm pretty convinced Thor's hammer is more unbreakable than adamantium. As I recall, when King Thor bashed Cap's shield with his hammer, the shield was dented and the hammer still intact, suggesting Thor's hammer is even stronger than Cap's shield, which we know is superior to ordinary adamantium.

I also think that magical unbreakable swords and weapons should be basically impossible to transmute or to bend with magnetism. To merely move them around with magnetism shouldn't be hard though. Magneto has magnetically shoved Thor's hammer away lots of times. See here (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/MightilyOats/Magneto87.jpg) for instance.

On the other hand, I think non-magical "unbreakable" metals like adamantium should still be possible to transmute or magnetically warp, because it's the laws of physics (or at least comic-book physics) that make them strong, and thus powers that effect atomic structure or inter-atomic forces should be able to weaken them. It is established in other instances that Magneto can use his powers to strengthen or weaken the bonds that hold metals together. For instance, when Polaris (who is just Magneto-lite) was possessed by Malice and fought Rogue, she wrapped Rogue in some steel girders and magnetically strengthened them to the point that Rogue couldn't break free.

The cut through anything is causing more questions than I thought it would...

Anything thats typically been classed as indestructible ie Adamantium Claws, Vibranium-Admantium Shield, Ebony Blade, Excalibur, Mjolnir etc are not gonna be affected by the above mentioned things. Mjolnir isnt gonna dent Cap's shield etc.

However in the case of Ebony Blade and Excalibur, if someone erects a shield of magical properties to protect themselves then the blades are gonna slice through that like butter due to their magical properties. Basically if say a street of debris is thrown at Whitman or Braddock and you have steel girders and concrete flying at them, if they were to hold their blades up to their faces then as the debris hit the edge of the metal (im talking so that the edge is facing the debris and its not width ways on) then it would just slide through it and not even cause the blade to faulter or move.

Stuff like Vibranium weave etc would be up for debate as that isnt as structurally sound as pure vibranium therefore in my opinion that could be cut through but thats up to others. Most stab proof vest aren't 100% guaranteed to stop every blade they only provide protection against most.

[TheCorpulent1]

Vibranium was never supposed to be all that sturdy, was it? It can absorb impact and sound and the like, but if the Ebony Blade meets vibranium (other than Cap's shield, which is a very unique and mysterious alloy of vibranium and other things), I would've thought it'd cut through the vibranium as easily as anything else.

[Franklin Richards]

Magic cuts vibranium. That shield US Agent had was damaged all to hell. Plus Black Panther's vibranium has always been tough but it's never been invulnerable.

It's a spice. Works well with others.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Khellendros]

Yeah, the Iron Fist tore up Black Panther's vibranium suit.

[XFanTim]

Anything thats typically been classed as indestructible ie Adamantium Claws, Vibranium-Admantium Shield, Ebony Blade, Excalibur, Mjolnir etc are not gonna be affected by the above mentioned things. Mjolnir isnt gonna dent Cap's shield etc.We don't need to speculate about these things, at least not for the Ebony Blade. (I don't know as much about Excalibur). It's already established that the Ebony Blade isn't able to cut adamantium.

Regarding Mjolnir and Cap's shield, the hammer can dent Cap's shield if wielded with King Thor level strength. Unless I'm totally misremembering, this is how it played out in the comics. Of course, King Thor is tuber. If wielded with the uber-level strength of classic Thor, then the hammer would deflect off the shield without either being damaged.

[Franklin Richards]

Since I just picked up Dracula, I'll need to know the environment before I finalize my starting roster.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[TheCorpulent1]

Making sure there aren't any sharp, pointy, wooden objects around before using him? ;)

[Franklin Richards]

No Garlic Plantations!!! :mad:


All and all his weaknesses aren't that bad. I'd like to see the Wasp take a wooden stake to the heart and survive.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Nightwing.]

Vibranium was never supposed to be all that sturdy, was it? It can absorb impact and sound and the like, but if the Ebony Blade meets vibranium (other than Cap's shield, which is a very unique and mysterious alloy of vibranium and other things), I would've thought it'd cut through the vibranium as easily as anything else.

Thats what I was thinking...Just didn't want to speculate and then have scan after scan produced to prove me wrong :p

[TheCorpulent1]

No Garlic Plantations!!! :mad:


All and all his weaknesses aren't that bad. I'd like to see the Wasp take a wooden stake to the heart and survive.


:doom: :doom: :doom:
The difference being that the Wasp is a reg and Dracula's a middleweight. He's still not bad, but he'd probably be uber if not for the weaknesses, given all his powers. I've been reading stuff on him in the Unofficial Appendix and it turns out he's had some encounters with Dr. Strange that don't involve Strange easily pwning him. Not bad for a guy with the equivalent of three or four Kryptonites.

[Franklin Richards]

I think I may have hit upon a Middleweight formula that I can work around. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

The difference being that the Wasp is a reg and Dracula's a middleweight. He's still not bad, but he'd probably be uber if not for the weaknesses, given all his powers. I've been reading stuff on him in the Unofficial Appendix and it turns out he's had some encounters with Dr. Strange that don't involve Strange easily pwning him. Not bad for a guy with the equivalent of three or four Kryptonites.OK, so he can stand up to a character that almost got tubered. But because a wooden stake or garlic can take him out, that means he's not an uber anymore? So opposing teams just have to pray for some garlic and sharp wood? How in the **** is this character a med?

[XFanTim]

Dracula has also given Silver Surfer a hard time, I think. But I'm not sure he's consistently been that strong. He seems like he kind of gets tougher whenever the writer wants him to face an uber.

[Aristotle]

No sir. That ain't the rule. We rank characters based on their potential. We don't just downgrade them for purposes of DTL play. If he can **** with the Surfer and Strange and his only weaknesses are things that will not be on most battlefields, you know what the call has to be. He may not be the best uber, but we all remember the very recent conversations about ubers who might not be good enough to make the team, but are ubers nonetheless.

[Franklin Richards]

Things you can find on most battlefields :


Wood.
Silver.
Two Things to make a Cross.
Not his homeland.
SUNLIGHT.


He's a Medium.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

Wood: not really a guarantee, is it? And even you could make a stake, how you gonna stick him with it? He will obliterate most meds before they get into range. Not like kryptonite, which just needs general proximity to start working its mojo.
Silver: Really? I don't recall fighting in too many silver mines or upper-class dining rooms.
Cross: That's a repellent, not a kryptonite. And even then, how long are you gonna hold on to a cross against a guy blasting you with lightning?
Sunlight: WEATHER CONTROL WEATHER CONTROL WEATHER CONTROL WEATHER CONTROL.

Not to mention that, again, he can magically cancel out his weaknesses!

[wiegeabo]

Ok, I must have not read a profile or something. How would Dracula blow away other Mids?

Because I've always thought of him as a regular, like Blade.

Ok, so a Middleweight since he is far above Blade, otherwise Blade would have taken him out a long time ago.

[Khellendros]

Ok, I must have not read a profile or something. How would Dracula blow away other Mids?Overpowering them the way he almost did Surfer (which I TOTALLY forgot about until Ari mentioned it) and Strange?

[wiegeabo]

Yeah, I didn't see the post in the other thread until after posting this.

Anyone got links for the profile or scans?

[Franklin Richards]

I've got scans of the Thing overpowering the Surfer, the Destroyer, and the Hulk. This line of thinking is useless.

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

Schedule is posted in the update thread with a Sunday start date.

Each battle takes 7 days, with a one day break between matches to finalize lineups.

There is a bye week after match 5. If additional time for the Thanksgiving holiday during match 6 is necessary, the schedule can be adjusted. But then it will start cutting into the Christmas/New Years holidays.


Battlegrounds will be up later tonight. Lineups will be due tomorrow.

[wiegeabo]

Tomorrow I'll make sure to get all rosters and lineups updated in the Update thread.

[Franklin Richards]

No lineup till I get environment and Dracula status.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

Battlegrounds are now up. If there is insufficient information about a battleground available, it will be substituted with another.

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh, Kandor. :(

Oh, is there a policy regarding vehicles and other sorts of gear like that? I picked up Nemesis a little while ago, and she has a hoverbike that looks pretty useful, but I don't know if that's considered gear that she would "have on her," per the rules in the Update thread. Similarly, if I get Ghost Rider 2099, would I be able to use his hoverbike? For Ghost Riders, the bike is kind of a major part of their repertoire, after all.

[LadyVader]

Wow, you picked up Nemesis! I thought I was the only one who ever had nemesis. :rolleyes:

EDIT: oh, i see you have her on your roster now so you must've done that for this season. Anyway, excellent choice. :D

[TheCorpulent1]

I finally got over my distaste for Talent Caldwell's art and started reading her mini-series. It's surprisingly good.

Also, in selecting characters this season, I've found that I seem to have a serious predilection toward swords and androids.

[Nightwing.]

Is Excalibur allowed then?

Sorry a bit off topic but if not then I want to discuss Cap B's rank...personally I think with or without Excalibur he is an Uber. Excalibur itself doesnt make him any stronger. Its like someone just wielding the Ebony Blade.

[Aristotle]

I think the Ghost Riders get their bikes, but I don't think Nemesis should. It's not as standard.