Meat Is Murder!

[bluejake01]

Originally posted by Fox Mulder
Is that supposed to be funny?

Nope...just trying to decide if you should eat him or not.

[Fox Mulder]

Originally posted by bluejake01
Nope...just trying to decide if you should eat him or not.
He's been like that all of his life. He couldn't go out without being laughed at by pathetic kids. Now he's actually making something of his life, so yes maybe I should ^_^^_^^_^^_^ing eat him. :rolleyes:

[the defenders]

Who is this you are talking about?

[Fox Mulder]

Originally posted by the defenders
Who is this you are talking about?
A friend of mine that's very much less fortunate than me or others.

[bluejake01]

Originally posted by Fox Mulder
He's been like that all of his life. He couldn't go out without being laughed at by pathetic kids. Now he's actually making something of his life, so yes maybe I should ^_^^_^^_^^_^ing eat him. :rolleyes:

You are the one who asked. If you didn't want help figuring it out, then why ask...mayhaps to be a smart ass and make some clever point? Anyway, the things you have to figure out before making a decision like that is A) Would he taste good? B) Do you have the desire to eat human flesh? C) Does your desire to eat him out weigh your affection for him? D) Do you have a problem commiting murder based on the definition of the word? E) Is your desire to eat him great enough for you to risk jail or other very scary consequences.

Once you answer those questions for yourself then you will know if you should eat him or not. Perhaps you should seek some proffessional help for the very real sickness that would lead you to even consider eating your own species...and a friend at that.

[Fox Mulder]

Originally posted by bluejake01
You are the one who asked. If you didn't want help figuring it out, then why ask...mayhaps to be a smart ass and make some clever point? Anyway, the things you have to figure out before making a decision like that is A) Would he tast good? B) Do you have the desire to eat human flesh? C) Does your desire to eat him out weigh your affection for him? D) Do you have a problem commiting murder based on the definition of the word? E) Is your desire to eat him great enough for you to risk jail or other very scary consequences.

Once you answer those questions for yourself then you will know if you should eat him or not. Perhaps you should seek some proffessional help for the very real sickness that would lead to even consider eating your own species...and a friend at that.
That's the problem, say the most obvious thing to kidding and people would take you for serious. I have three heads. Are you going to tell me I need help? What in hell do you think the wink was for? If I was serious I wouldn't have put a smilie.

[bluejake01]

Originally posted by Fox Mulder
That's the problem, say the most obvious thing to kidding and people would take you for serious. I have three heads. Are you going to tell me I need help? What in hell do you think the wink was for? If I was serious I wouldn't have put a smilie.

Oh I see...it's fine for you to joke about eating your firend, but then you get upset when someone jokes back...Typical.

[bluejake01]

The you tell a sob story about him being teased as a child to gain sympathy, when you are the one that dragged him into your sick little "joke"

[Fox Mulder]

Yes, I admit I dragged him into it and it was wrong, but I thought people would have enough sense to see the sarcasm in that post. I didn't think people would take me seriously. If you want to take this further, would you like to take this into PM? We've gone off topic, it's unfair to the creator of the thread.

[Capt Throbberson]

Murder tastes good

[Spider Jerusalem]

defenders, you bring up some very good points about how animals are treated. I too am a animal lover but I eat a balanced diet of meat and vegetables.

It is in out physical make-up to eat meat, just like other animals are either carnivores or herbivores, we are designed to eat both and there is no denying that. If you choose to be a vegetarian, I think that is great, but you have to take stuff to compensate what you dont get from meat.

I respect that you want to get a certain point across, but calling us all murderers and barbarians is rude and stereotyping. People who eat meat are not barbarians, the way many of these animals are killed is. If that is your problem then state that instead of name calling. If someone calls you a name, be the bigger person and just stand by your cause, dont stoop to that level.

I agree that the treatment of animals is wrong. I eat meat but i think that we are wasteful as a people and could take steps to change that.

[Jason Blood]

Originally posted by Bloody Mary
#1 animals are raised to be eaten. they are fed animal fat and steroids to fatten them up. they arent sold by quality, theyr sold by weight. have fun eating fat steroids. :up:

#2 the body doesnt need animal meat and blood to function correctly. our bodies supply the blood, eating other animals flesh and muscle is just savage and appaling.

#3 i hope you all get mad cow disease and your brains swell and develop embolisms. :o

mad cow disease is found in the parts of the cow we eat

[Jason Blood]

Originally posted by Jason Blood
that book is pure fiction

get your facts straight:rolleyes:

since nobody said anything to try and correct me

The Jungle is pure fiction

I even saw a special on the History channel about food that said it was all speculation

[bluejake01]

Originally posted by Jason Blood
mad cow disease is found in the parts of the cow we eat

You do mean it is not found in the parts we typically eat, right?

[Jason Blood]

Originally posted by bluejake01
You do mean it is not found in the parts we typically eat, right?

:rolleyes:

[the defenders]

The Jungle is fiction, however, it is based on facts. The History Channel has also put on stuff about LBJ planning the Kennedy assassination.

[Jason Blood]

Originally posted by the defenders
The Jungle is fiction, however, it is based on facts. The History Channel has also put on stuff about LBJ planning the Kennedy assassination.

it is all based on pure speculation

not facts

[The Singularity]

Originally posted by the defenders
They still don't have........ senses.

BS!

[LarryLegend]

I love meat! Who's with me?

[Jason Blood]

Originally posted by LarryLegend
I love meat! Who's with me?

GO HAMBURGERS!

[Man-Thing]

someone brought up the Bible and it appeared to be a defense of eating meat.
I find it interesting, that up untill the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden, that man did not eat meat. It wasn't untill after the fall that God said that it was permissable to eat meat.
What I'm trying to say is, that according to the Bible, humans weren't meant to eat meat, God only allows it because after our fallen state.

[choskins]

Meat is Murder?

I loved that album!

[Hooligan32]

I really wish I could quit eating meat, but it just ain't gonna happen.

[the defenders]

Originally posted by choskins
Meat is Murder?

I loved that album!

Yes, I have a new love for The Smiths.

Hooligan, it's really hard but it's worth it to me. But hey, keep fighting for the environment and your helping just as much.

[Majin Boo]

:rolleyes:

[the defenders]

Originally posted by Majin Boo
:rolleyes:

?

[Orko Is King]

I have a problem with using the word "barbarian" in a negative way. They're cool.

http://images.darkhorse.com/darkhorse/downloads/desktops/conan2/conan2_sm.jpg

[Master Blaster]

Originally posted by LarryLegend
I love meat! Who's with me?

Master Blaster like meat. Hulk like meat too. Meat good. :hulk:

[Master Blaster]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orko Is King
I have a problem with using the word "barbarian" in a negative way. They're cool.

Cool pic! Conan rules (Both metaphorically and literally!) Especially the movies! I mean, just look at the quotes from them.

[B]Conan : "You killed my mother! You killed my Father!! YOU KILLED MY PEOPLE!!!"

Conan : The riddle...of steel.

Thulsa Doom : Yes! You know what it is don't you boy. Shall I tell you? It's the least I can do. Steel isn't strong boy, flesh is stronger! Look around you. There, on the rocks; that beautiful girl. Come to me my child... That is strength boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength in your body, the desire in your heart, I gave you this! Such a waste. Contemplate this on the tree of woe. Crucify him!

Conan's Father : For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts. This you can trust.
[Points to sword.]

And last, but not least,

Conan : Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, and why we died. All that matters is that today, two stood against many. Valor pleases you, so grant me this one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, the HELL with you!

[Sarge]

Originally posted by the defenders
Well, you can take your triple bypass and shove it up your ass when your old because the anti-carnivourous safeguard nature, god, gods, put on meat. It's not funny or okay! People just don't see it. grow a sac and eat some steak ya pansy :o

[bluejake01]

Originally posted by Jason Blood
:rolleyes:

If you really think Mad Cow is commonly found in the parts of the animal we eat, you are misinformed.

[Jiggle Billy]

it's not just the canine teeth that shows we're supposed to eat meat... it's also the fact that we can digest meat. Human's are omnivorous, that means we are able to digest both plants and meat. If you fed meat to a deer, the deer would get sick because, as herbivores they are unable to process and digest meat. The same goes for feeding a salad to a lion, as a carnivore a lion does not have a suitible digestive system capable of digesting plants.
Human's are able to eat both because our digestive system is able to process pretty much everything. So physiologically our bodies say meat is okay! Are YOU gonna disagree with your own body??? didn't think so :P

[Super_Child]

Meat is cool I can't resist a wonderful salsbury steak every now and again its just too mouth wateringly delicious.

PS ( the steak has to be cooked Bloody rare or blue or you are a bafoon :))

[the defenders]

Originally posted by Sgt. Homestar
grow a sac and eat some steak ya pansy :o

Whats afeminate about being a vegan or a vegetarian?

[DIZZY MOONBEAM]

Originally posted by the defenders
Yes but do we need to eat meat to survive? I sure as hell don't. YOu can keep on with your barbarous ways but at least I sleep at night knowing I'm not a murderer.

Well when we all stop eating cows and they die,(because they can't take care of themselves) then everyone will be mad because the animals arent around anymore. And there are alot worse things going on then killing an animal put here to be our food. Like rape and child-molesters.

Now, where is my steak?

[Omega Red]

Originally posted by the defenders
Who the hell is forcing you to not eat meat. I never said I wanted it to be illegal or inforced by the police or government. Did I ever say they should wave tofu in your face? NO!

No you are trying to force you way of life on people , and calling people murders is not helping.


P.S Anything with a fu at the end does not belong on a grill

[Sentinel X]

Hahahahaha..this thread is funny in so many ways :D

[The Lizard]

I wonder where Dizzy Moonbeam has been. She was a cutie. :)

[Halcohol]

Hahahahaha..this thread is funny in so many ways :D
This thread makes me sad... to quote Esquire's "The Rules: A Man's Guide to Life"

Go ahead and be a vegetarian. All we ask is that you do so quietly.

[Sentinel X]

Yeah exactly...Im a vegetarian but I dont go "Dont eat meat!!!!Dont eat beef!!!"...thats crazy :rolleyes:...people are gonna do it anyway so why bother.Its like telling George Bush stop being an idiot

[Sarge 2.0]

grow a sac and eat some steak ya pansy :oWow, capitalization and punctuation weren't exactly my thing.

[Sentinel X]

Wow, capitalization and punctuation weren't exactly my thing.wait a sec....OH!!!:eek: ...you were banned but you were reborn,by accepting who you were,you became freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[D.Rex]

I could never be a vegetarian. I love eating steak, I also love buffalo chicken, turkey, fish, cheeseburgers, and pretty much any meat you can think of. While being a vegetarian is a healthly lifestyle there is no question the benfits that come from meats and fish. Fish is extremely healthy, has huge amounts of proteins and omega 3 acids which fight cancer if I'm not mistaken. Steak chicken and other meats are also high in protein as well as iron and other minerals and vitamins essential to health. While you can get these from other things like vitamin tablets meat and foods are the best way to get them.

[Boom]

Yes but do we need to eat meat to survive? I sure as hell don't. YOu can keep on with your barbarous ways but at least I sleep at night knowing I'm not a murderer.
And I at least sleep with a full belly of brutally slaughtered cow :):up:.

[Sarge 2.0]

YOU GODDAMN HIPPIES ARE GOING AGAINST THE LAWS OF NATURE!!

I have killed my own food and thier is nothing like eating a freshly killed animal.My original post about steak in this thread aside...you sound like one big stereotype to me.

[Carter]

I like meat, and no pansy ass Peta activist is going to change that.

[FunBobPants]

meat is not murder. meat is sustenance

[Mr Sparkle]

you know what else is murder? regicide!

[Holly Goodhead]

I like meat, and no pansy ass Peta activist is going to change that.

PETA arent pansy asses. Theyre driven heartless eco-terrorists..be afraid..:(

[Sentinel X]

Okay...time out...how is someone pansy for being a veggie?

[jks]

You know what's ironic about idiots who say "meat is murder"? One of the main reasons our primitive ancestor's brains began to grow so large was because they began consuming the proteins from meat, so without our ancestors being "murderers", these people wouldn't have the ability to think or have a conciouss about eating meat being wrong

[Jolie_Desastre]

we've been living off of meat since the beginning.

killing for sport- now that's wrong :(

[oakzap425]

...God, I hate crap like this...

[oakzap425]

You know what's ironic about idiots who say "meat is murder"? One of the main reasons our primitive ancestor's brains began to grow so large was because they began consuming the proteins from meat, so without our ancestors being "murderers", these people wouldn't have the ability to think or have a conciouss about eating meat being wrong



You know what's funny?

Judging from this comment, you need to eat more meat. :o

[Abaddon]

I'm eating ribs at the moment.

[oakzap425]

...Ribs are gross.

[Abaddon]

only on girls:confused:

[jks]

Why, everything I said is quite correct.You know what's funny?

Judging from this comment, you need to eat more meat. :o

[Hades]

I love The Smiths

[Holly Goodhead]

I love The Smiths
I love you Rylan.

[Hades]

I love you Rylan.
Sweet, let's make out.

[thedeadite]

1) if everyone suddenly went vegetarian/vegan...the farm animal population would plummet to extinction (or atleast endangered). Barely any farmers would be able to afford the cost of maintaining such animals with no profit from them, nor could such animals live "wild" after all the years of being "domesticated". Though "most" vege/vegan people i know don't think, or even want, the entire world to stop eating meat.

2) anyone who talks about slaughterhouse conditions should first actually SEE what happens in a slaughterhouse before speaking out about them, and i don't mean on a video, (PETA likes to show "slaughterhouse" footage taken before laws where made to make the process more humane).....and before you ask, yes i have been to a slaughterhouse, more than one for that matter.

3) There is nothing wrong with being vegan/vegetarian, like there's nothing wrong with being straight edge, or drinking, or smoking or not smoking.....however there IS a problem when you feel that your way of life is somehow "superior" to someone elses, i don't ever recall any debate of this type comming up from someone saying "vegetarians are unhealthy!!" or something of the sort...they're usually started the way this one was.


...ps just to add to the hunting tangent that was brought up a few posts ago...in most cases hunting helps keep animal populations at safe levels (for the animal)..in many places w/o such hunts certain animals can overpopulate (which IS a bad thing) or completely kill off other species' (like the seal hunts in canada done to keep the seal population from become so great that it would kill of the fish population).

[oakzap425]

Why, everything I said is quite correct.



I'm confused about your response to my post. :confused:

[raybia]

meat is unhealthy. Thats about it.

Untrue, unless its USDA certified.

[oakzap425]

USDA certified meat isn't healthy? :confused:

[raybia]

USDA certified meat isn't healthy? :confused:

The meat supply in America is horrible. Meat isn't unhealthly, just what they do to it, like all of the hormones they inject it with which are killing people.

Also the slaughtering methods are inhuman and makes the meat further unhealthly.

I try to get most of my meat at the website below. I also purchase organic chicken.



http://www.grasslandbeef.com/

[jaguarr]

The meat supply in America is horrible. Meat isn't unhealthly, just what they do to it, like all of the hormones they inject it with which are killing people.

Also the slaughtering methods are inhuman and makes the meat further unhealthly.


I'd agree with that. My wife and I happen to have someone in our family who grass raises beef and doesn't pump them full of antibiotics and steroids. The difference in the flavor (not to mention the nutritional value) is unmatched.We get a side of beef from them every 8-12 months. Farm raised buffalo is another nice treat, as is elk. We also have a source for organic chicken and FRESH eggs from cage-free, grain fed chickens (most egg farms keep their chickens in cages and feed them junk, which stresses them out and makes them produce inferior eggs that usually aren't fertile because there is no rooster around so the nutritional value is almost nil; most eggs at the store are really old by the time you buy them, too). Makes a big difference in the quality of our diet. :up:

jag

[raybia]

I'd agree with that. My wife and I happen to have someone in our family who grass raises beef and doesn't pump them full of antibiotics and steroids. The difference in the flavor (not to mention the nutritional value) is unmatched.We get a side of beef from them every 8-12 months. Farm raised buffalo is another nice treat, as is elk. We also have a source for organic chicken and FRESH eggs from cage-free, grain fed chickens (most egg farms keep their chickens in cages and feed them junk, which stresses them out and makes them produce inferior eggs that usually aren't fertile because there is no rooster around so the nutritional value is almost nil; most eggs at the store are really old by the time you buy them, too). Makes a big difference in the quality of our diet. :up:

jag


Exactly. You don't realize how bad this meat taste until you actually get quality beef like grassfed and organic chicken. The taste is excellent.

[oakzap425]

I don't realyl eat meat.

The occaisional chicken, mostly fish.

I rarely eat pork. Maybe 3 times in a month. And beef, bleh...

[raybia]

I don't realyl eat meat.

The occaisional chicken, mostly fish.

I rarely eat pork. Maybe 3 times in a month. And beef, bleh...


If you had grassfed beef you would like it. Really.

[bored]

Meat is indeed murder, thus proving my longstanding theory that murder is, in fact, delicious.

[raybia]

Meat is indeed murder, thus proving my longstanding theory that murder is, in fact, delicious.


Indeed.

[Snipershot]

Hell yeah it is!

[jaguarr]

Meat is indeed murder, thus proving my longstanding theory that murder is, in fact, delicious.

Yeah, but have you had GRASSFED murder? Oh, man, the difference in taste is unbelievable!!!

jag

[raybia]

Yeah, but have you had GRASSFED murder? Oh, man, the difference in taste is unbelievable!!!

jag


lol

[bluejake01]

I do all my meat shopping at the Whole Foods market here in Sacramento...hell I do most of my shopping there...Organic is better...there is no way around it.

[War Lord]

I'm a member of PETA.

People Eating Tasty Animals.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm a member of PETA.

People Eating Tasty Animals.

That wasnt funny the first time I heard it. 4 years ago

[War Lord]

That wasnt funny the first time I heard it. 4 years ago

That's quite the coincidence, because I just made that one up.

[Holly Goodhead]

That's quite the coincidence, because I just made that one up.

No you didnt.

http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/5503.jpg

[War Lord]

No you didnt.

http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/5503.jpg

What are the odds that my new found saying is already on t-shirts?

[Leto Atrides]

What are the odds that my new found saying is already on t-shirts?
You can't think of something independently if it already exists. Everyone knows that.

[sinewave]

I do all my meat shopping at the Whole Foods market here in Sacramento...hell I do most of my shopping there...Organic is better...there is no way around it.

i like that store. they've got an amazing selection of great, fresh products and an awesome beer selection too. their sushi is really good also. :up:

[Cyclops]

I suddenly find myself craving some murdered shrimp.

[Hades]

http://myspace-520.vo.llnwd.net/00537/02/58/537198520_l.jpg

[IronLion]

3) There is nothing wrong with being vegan/vegetarian, like there's nothing wrong with being straight edge, or drinking, or smoking or not smoking.....however there IS a problem when you feel that your way of life is somehow "superior" to someone elses, i don't ever recall any debate of this type comming up from someone saying "vegetarians are unhealthy!!" or something of the sort...they're usually started the way this one was. .


i agree. it makes me laugh. meat and religion cause so many arguments. if you believe in god or not, if you eat meat or not, so what! there are too many people who call you a fool if you prctice a religion, as many as if you don't, if you are veggie or if you eat meat.

i get double because i follow a religion and am a veggie.

lol. live your own life, make your own way of life better, dont worry about other people.

[Dew k. Mosi]

http://myspace-520.vo.llnwd.net/00537/02/58/537198520_l.jpg
THis is the most terrifying picture I have ever seen

[Avalanche]

http://myspace-520.vo.llnwd.net/00537/02/58/537198520_l.jpg
Just disturbing.

He's clearly not been eating meat. It wouldn't splurge so much right across his entire face. :p

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Jesus


"Sergio? You'll never guess who's on my back!"

[Sentinel X]

http://myspace-520.vo.llnwd.net/00537/02/58/537198520_l.jpgAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
IS THAT YOU!?!? :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm a member of PETA.



People Eating Tasty Animals.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!Thats funny imo

[Sarge 2.0]

http://myspace-520.vo.llnwd.net/00537/02/58/537198520_l.jpgI'm guessing that's you with herpes on your mouth?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I know cheap chili cheesedog traces when I see them.
The lad just had a chili cheesedog.

[Erzengel]

Dude what's that stuff coming out his nose?

[dpm07]

I can't justify needless slaughter of animals, but I do see a need to eat what is necessary in order to sustain ourselves. Animals themselves do it, and man is a mammal also.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Dude what's that stuff coming out his nose?I had 3 friends that used to work with autistic kids so I've had a lot of experience with them.
I would say that that is an autistic kid and that the one nostril is raw from excessive/compulsive nose-picking.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

man is a mammal also.Do you have any mammalian components?

[Erzengel]

I can't justify needless slaughter of animals, but I do see a need to eat what is necessary in order to sustain ourselves. Animals themselves do it, and man is a mammal also.

I need IMPUT!! IMPUT!!

[ScottyBBadd]

Cute *munches on meatloaf sandwich*

I second that motion.

[War Lord]

Do you have any mammalian components?

We've got tits and our children are born live.

[ShadowBoxing]

I love meat...but don't eat red meat more than once or twice a week...stick to chicken or fish the rest of the time

[Leto Atrides]

I had 3 friends that used to work with autistic kids so I've had a lot of experience with them.
I would say that that is an autistic kid and that the one nostril is raw from excessive/compulsive nose-picking.

...If so, you guys are going to hell.

[CorpusBlack]

Animals are made to fill our bellies and trees are made to give us rolling papers. In all seriousness, the way animals are killed for food is mostly inhumane and I do disagree with the conditions. However I'm not giving up meat. And yes before you ask it, I would kill an animal for food if I had to. Lucky for me, there are people who do it for me. Just like people who do other dirty jobs I don't want to do.

[Captain_BluTac]

Free range

FTW

[Eggyman]

Free range

FTW

You rang? :oldrazz:

[Captain_BluTac]

do you know what is murder
































































































Genocide


true story

[Eggyman]

do you know what is murder

Genocide


true story

I am dumbfounded by the mediocrity of your wit :o

:D

[Captain_BluTac]

I am dumbfounded by the mediocrity of your wit :o

:D

:annoyinghighpitchedvoiceinapoorattempttoimitatean egg:I am dumbfounded by the mediocrity of your wit:/annoyinghighpitchedvoiceinapoorattempttoimitateane gg:
true story

[Carcharodon]

You know what's ironic about idiots who say "meat is murder"? One of the main reasons our primitive ancestor's brains began to grow so large was because they began consuming the proteins from meat, so without our ancestors being "murderers", these people wouldn't have the ability to think or have a conciouss about eating meat being wrongI think you have it backwards. We began to require larger amounts of protein because our ancestors' brains became enlarged. The brain got larger, it needed more fuel (proteins + carbs).

Brain size would be determined by our genes, not necessarily how much we ate. What's more, physiological changes that are independent of our genetic makeup (i.e., non-mutational factors) are not passed along to our offspring.

If I obtain a permanent scar, my kid won't come out with the same scar. That's not how phenotypic traits are passed on from generation to generation.

[Immortalfire]

You'll all pardon me if I don't shed any tears over my next hamburger.

[CorpusBlack]

You'll all pardon me if I don't shed any tears over my next hamburger.

I shed some tears over a burger, but it had lots of jalapenos and onions on it. :up:

[Logan's Runt]

I'm going to go cry and eat pepperoni pizza. :up:

[Carcharodon]

You'll all pardon me if I don't shed any tears over my next hamburger.I like the philosophy of many native americans who actually worship the animals they kill. They're sort of grateful that the animal died so that they could eat/live, as it were.

They understand the interconnection between organisms.

[Immortalfire]

In the circle... the cirrrcllle of liiiife...

[CorpusBlack]

I'm going to go cry and eat pepperoni pizza. :up:

throw some sausage, ham and a mystery meat or two on it and I'm there. :woot:

[shapeshifter]

eh I'm going to hell anyway I might as well eat good food on the way

[CorpusBlack]

In the circle... the cirrrcllle of liiiife...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Elton_john_illustation_artlibre_jnl.png/493px-Elton_john_illustation_artlibre_jnl.png

[Carcharodon]

In the circle... the cirrrcllle of liiiife...More than you know.

[moraldeficiency]

Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER
And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It's death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER
And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is MURDER
And the turkey you festively slice
Is MURDER
Do you know how animals die ?
Kitchen aromas aren't very homely
It's not "comforting", cheery or kind
It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of MURDER
It's not "natural", "normal" or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?

You know there's plenty of wackos that help protect the poor and delicious animals of the world but who protects us from really crappy poetry?

[CorpusBlack]

You know there's plenty of wackos that help protect the poor and delicious animals of the world but who protects us from really crappy poetry?

Richard Simmons.

[Logan's Runt]

I hope that whoever is chanting 'meat is murder' is also a strict vegan, because dairy/eggs are torture- the conditions most producing livestock is kept are a far cry from their nature intended states. Oh, and How much of our everyday products/clothing/luxuries are made from animal products like leather, glycerin, etc? What about all those companies that may or may not test their products on animals? Honestly, you can't do anything nowadays without somehow supporting/condoning animal "torture"/killing. :up:

[Carcharodon]

You know there's plenty of wackos that help protect the poor and delicious animals of the world but who protects us from really crappy poetry?:pal:

[CorpusBlack]

I hope that whoever is chanting 'meat is murder' is also a strict vegan, because dairy/eggs are torture- the conditions most producing livestock is kept are a far cry from their nature intended states. Oh, and How much of our everyday products/clothing/luxuries are made from animal products like leather, glycerin, etc? What about all those companies that may or may not test their products on animals? Honestly, you can't do anything nowadays without somehow supporting/condoning animal torture/killing. :up:

100% Agree.

I respect vegans for their beliefs but any motherf-cker calling me a murderer because I buy leather pants and eat a burrito is going to get punched w/ a fistful of quarters.

[Fran]

I'm going to go cry and eat pepperoni pizza. :up:

You monster. :csad:

:dbz: :gray: :huh:

[Logan's Runt]

You monster. :csad:

:dbz: :gray: :huh:

Hey, somebody else kilt that pig- I'm just doing my part to keep our environment free of rotting corpses.

[SoulManX]

You'll all pardon me if I don't shed any tears over my next hamburger.

Or bison burger:o

[Carcharodon]

Bison > Cow...better for the environment, too.

[Logan's Runt]

Bison > Cow...better for the environment, too.

There were Bison down the street from the house I grew up in, we used to feed them ditch grass through the fence. :heart:

I'm sure they're quite tasty.

[Matt]

Meat is murder. But murder is also murder.

[Carcharodon]

There were Bison down the street from the house I grew up in, we used to feed them ditch grass through the fence. :heart:

I'm sure they're quite tasty.They're not nearly as marbled/fatty as cows, but they are tasty in their own right. Buffalo burgers are damn good. :up:

[SuBe]

RECENT STUDY: Meat is not murder but tasty!

It's on Snopes, it must be true!

[psychocheeseman]

Just watched the doco "Earthlings" totally put me off meat... you'd think we'd have proper humane treatment for the beings that provided so much for us... but we don't. Often pigs and Cows survive the bolt through the head, and the bleeding process (at least for a few agonising minutes) worse for pigs, who often end up drowning in tubs of boiling hot water...

plus the horrible living condidtions their entire lives.

[JustABill]

It'd take one hell of a strong point to take my steak and steak knife away from me and nothing I mean nothing I've ever really heard by a vegan or animal rights activist has even come close.

I'm not the murderer if I'm buying it at a store and cooking it. The murderer is the one that slaughtered it and sent it to be processed. I'm just the dude buying it at the grocery store/restaruant for substance and survival. :o

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

If you've ever seen an animal be slaughtered, ...how should I put this... it's a really God-awful experience.

So, yeah, I'll give animal activists that much credit...

I use to work as a cleaner in a meat factory hosing up, including the slaughter house were pigs were killed, dono how they do things where you are, but over here, it's pretty humane from what iv seen. not nearly as bad as people made out.

[chaseter]

I will eat animals as long as they taste good. I really don't give a **** that it is murder. It is clean and quick. The animals do not feel a thing as they are shot in the head with a bolt or shocked behind the neck which destroys their brains.

[Jake Cassidy]

You wanna know what I think when I see a cow?

A huge slab of beef wrapped in a leather jacket.

[psychocheeseman]

I will eat animals as long as they taste good. I really don't give a **** that it is murder. It is clean and quick. The animals do not feel a thing as they are shot in the head with a bolt or shocked behind the neck which destroys their brains.


A fairly large percent of cows and pigs survive the bolt" and regain consciousness whilst having their throats slit... then they have a few minutes of life left to dangle upsidedown whilst bleeding in agony....

[Manic]

I'm reminded of that episode of The Simpsons where all the kids were stuck on a small, desert island. All of their packed lunches ran out, and they needed to find something to eat. Lisa (a vegetarian) noticed a wild boar eating moss off of rocks, and suggested to the other kids that they can survive by eating the moss.

The other kids killed and roasted the boar.

I also remember once hearing "you'll never find a vegetarian in a third world country." If people are starving, they will not turn down meat. However, we live in developed countries where both meat and vegetables are readily available. We have choices. Now, I choose to eat meat. I'm trying to eat Subway during my lunch breaks, and I will be damned if I'm paying that much money for 6" of bread stuffed with lettuce and tomatoes. You better toss a slice of turkey in that mess!

Anyway, if you choose to eat only veggies, all the power to you. I'm not going to pressure you to eat meat. I expect the same respect.

[jokersminion]

So... its okay to eat mute people because they can't scream? :)
I know this post is like 4 years old, but OMG I have been laughing my ass off for the last 10 minutes since I read this!
I was a vegan for about a year then went vegitarian, now I am back on the meat. I had some health issues and wasn't getting enough protein. I tried everything I could to get protein without going back to meat but it just wasn't enough. It took me along time to stomach it again. I still have my time where I don't eat meat for weeks then I start feeling ill and have poultry. But bashing people because they believe to do something that you don't believe in is just silly.

[Odin's Lapdog]

If you've ever seen an animal be slaughtered, ...how should I put this... it's a really God-awful experience.

So, yeah, I'll give animal activists that much credit...

It's not that bad, I used to enjoy watching chickens being killed back in nigeria, I'd get all excited and come out and watch

same goes for rams being killed for religious festivals.

best one was seeing a cow on fire, that memory won't be etched out of my mind for a long time.

[Manic]

I know this post is like 4 years old, but OMG I have been laughing my ass off for the last 10 minutes since I read this!
I was a vegan for about a year then went vegitarian, now I am back on the meat. I had some health issues and wasn't getting enough protein. I tried everything I could to get protein without going back to meat but it just wasn't enough. It took me along time to stomach it again. I still have my time where I don't eat meat for weeks then I start feeling ill and have poultry. But bashing people because they believe to do something that you don't believe in is just silly.
Have you tried mixed nuts, beans, and peanut butter sandwiches?

[Dangerous]

I love meat.

Chicken and Beef are my favs.

[jokersminion]

Have you tried mixed nuts, beans, and peanut butter sandwiches?
yes! of course I have, but there is only so much nuts, beans and pb sandwiches a person can eat and as I said, I had heath problems, my body wasn't getting enough protein even with me eating tofu, vitamins, etc.
I continue to eat those things, soy and rice milk, veggies of all kinds and occational poultry,yet my protein levels are still low.

[Eggyman]

yes! of course I have, but there is only so much nuts, beans and pb sandwiches a person can eat and as I said, I had heath problems, my body wasn't getting enough protein even with me eating tofu, vitamins, etc.
I continue to eat those things, soy and rice milk, veggies of all kinds and occational poultry,yet my protein levels are still low.

You should try to find another way to get protein in your system :up:

:)

[QueerMike]

Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER
And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It's death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER
And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is MURDER
And the turkey you festively slice
Is MURDER
Do you know how animals die ?
Kitchen aromas aren't very homely
It's not "comforting", cheery or kind
It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of MURDER
It's not "natural", "normal" or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?

I guess that means murder tastes good if seasoned and cooked right.:huh:

[dolfan55aj]

Meat is murder. But murder is also murder.

Amen to that.

Why do people get so upset about this, it's the circle of life. Animals don't have souls, they aren't capable of true intelligent thought, am i right?

I will continue to enjoy meat untill some farm of cows organizes an uprizing, captures and kills the farmer, butchers him and eats him. If that happens, i'll be a vegetarian in no time.

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I love meat.

Chicken and Beef are my favs.

Duck is very nice in orange sauce, underrated bird.

[Hotwire]

So is a salad. If you simply define murder as ending life for your own gain, than a salad, the same as a steak, is murder. Let's face it, we need to kill things to eat. And besides, what about germs? How come no one ever portests that antibiotics are murder? Just saying, if someone is going to say that all life is sacred, they need to make sure they include all living things, not just the cute ones. :cwink:

[CorpusBlack]

So is a salad. If you simply define murder as ending life for your own gain, than a salad, the same as a steak, is murder. Let's face it, we need to kill things to eat. And besides, what about germs? How come no one ever portests that antibiotics are murder? Just saying, if someone is going to say that all life is sacred, they need to make sure they include all living things, not just the cute ones. :cwink:

In that case, I think masturbation is murder. Just think of all those poor little guys, literally millions, laid to rest for a few moments of one person's personal pleasure. It's practically genocide.

[Hotwire]

In that case, I think masturbation is murder. Just think of all those poor little guys, literally millions, laid to rest for a few moments of one person's personal pleasure. It's practically genocide.
Yes it is. And so is sex, seeing as how not every sperm survives.

[SuperFerret]

Animals eat other animals, no one disputes this, and vegetarians often excuse it because "they need to survive". I am an animal. Do the math.

[raybia]

meat is unhealthy. Thats about it.

100% false. Plants have no consciousness. Plants have no senses. Plants don't have any sort of system of touch. They are not concious. I hate when people use this stupid arguement.

Prove it

[C.F. Kane]

The vegan and vegetarian movements are just a fascinating by-product of the industrial revolution and mass urbanization. Families all over the world used to raise their own animals for the sole purpose of killing and eating them, simply as a way to survive. How sensitive we've become since then.

[Gamma Ray]

G-d created animals and gave specific instructions for the killing and consuming of said animals... Yeah, meat's fine.

[Carcharodon]

Prove itYou mean other than the fact that plants have no nervous tissues or physiological mechanisms for interpreting pain?

Nearly every response to stimuli by plants is hormonally regulated...a process that doesn't involve pain or a consciousness. There is a huge difference between hormonal response/regulation and conscious (or nervous) response.

Plants are able to respond to their environment...for example, there are plants that detect barriers and physical surfaces and respond to grow/attach to them. Still, this is again a slow process that relies on forms of feedback that involve a more or less pre-programmed response on a cellular level.

[Mr Sparkle]

Plants don't have nervous systems for god sakes. They woulnd't scream because they aren't "alive" in the way animals are!

the venus fly trap certainly acts " alive" :o

[Mr Sparkle]

pre-programmed response on a cellular level.

that sounds vaguely familiar.

[Carcharodon]

that sounds vaguely familiar.Okay?

[DBella]

Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER
And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It's death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER
And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is MURDER
And the turkey you festively slice
Is MURDER
Do you know how animals die ?
Kitchen aromas aren't very homely
It's not "comforting", cheery or kind
It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of MURDER
It's not "natural", "normal" or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?
I have a good reason: FOOD.
So it's not murder and my conscience is clear.
*takes a bite out of chicken sandwich*

[Mr Sparkle]

Okay?

isn't pain a pre-programmed response?

[Carcharodon]

isn't pain a pre-programmed response?1) I was referring specifically to a tactile response to the surrounding environment (given the scenario: plants that bind/grow on various surfaces).

2) We're talking about the presence of a consciousness also. If you want to get into the specifics of a nervous response vs. a hormonal response, I'd be happy to.

Otherwise, you're right. You're nitpicking, but you're right.


In any case, the phenomenon of pain is a trait that is directly connected to the presence of a nervous system. We also have hormonal responses to our environment, but it's a completely different signaling pathway than that which governs pain. They're not even close to being similar, though they are known to occasionally interact.

[Gilpesh]

Fine. You vegetarians don't want to quit saying plants aren't alive... but you never bring up all the little field creatures that get killed (slaughtered) just so you can have your salads... and they just die, they don't get turned into delicious foods.

[Carcharodon]

...people actually said plants aren't alive? :huh:

[DBella]

Plants, like animals are oganisms or living things. They live and they die. Like animals. And like animals, they are able to reproduce.

[Gilpesh]

...people actually said plants aren't alive? :huh:

Um... that's what you're trying to argue. That plants don't die to feed vegetarians.

Plant murderer.

[Carcharodon]

Um... that's what you're trying to argue. That plants don't die to feed vegetarians.

Plant murderer.I will send you $50 is you can show me where I said that plants aren't alive. I'm not joking.

[Nightmare]

atkins diet = me eating all those animals. :)

[SuperFerret]

You cannot tell if something can feel anything, unless you yourself are that something.

[Carcharodon]

You cannot tell if something can feel anything, unless you yourself are that something.Then define, "feel." That's the whole problem: the people that argue that plants can feel pain are basing their assumptions on their own physiology. It's ridiculous.

[Gilpesh]

I will send you $50 is you can show me where I said that plants aren't alive. I'm not joking.

I've lumped you with all those veggies. Uh-oh. :whatever:

[Carcharodon]

I've lumped you with all those veggies. Uh-oh. :whatever:Uh...huh. Well, I'll be waiting. I've got the money ready.

*Eats his hamburger*

[Superhobo]

I've only read the first seven or so pages of this thread, but that seems as good enough a jumping-off point as any, so -

I'm probably the person who's done the most research on stuff like animal cognition and emotion, and I can say that, from what I'm gleaned from said research, animals are a lot closer to us than we realize. If I were really to go into it, this post would go on forever, because there's so much to write. Suffice it to say that I agree with the most basic points behind groups like PETA, and the ALF, behind all the trouble they've set up for themselves.

HOWEVER -

Humans aren't herbivores, but neither are we carnivores. We're omnivores. And, so are crows. So are hedgehogs. So are pigs, bears, chickens and corvids. Crows are some of the most intelligent birds around; they've passed the 'self-awareness' test (which, in itself is a pretty stodgy measure of S-A, but -) as well as the 'empathy' test (to a measure), and could rightly make the 'choice' to become 'strictly vegetarian birds.'

Will they? No. Because that's not how they evolved, and that's not how we evolved, either. They need a steady intake of both sources of food, and so do we. Are we at the top of the food chain? No. That would be the bacteria that wears our bodies away, long after we've died. But, we are part of the food chain; we can get a bit careless, and more than a little bit heartless, yes.

But that doesn't mean we should stop eating meat. Is it murder when the penguin eats the fish? Or when the cat eats the crow? No. Everything's connected, in that way.

A better approach to take, I've always thought, is the one that the Native Americans took - they did honor to those they killed; I've always found that appealing.

[Gilpesh]

Superhobo wins.

[Mr Sparkle]

1) I was referring specifically to a tactile response to the surrounding environment (given the scenario: plants that bind/grow on various surfaces).

2) We're talking about the presence of a consciousness also. If you want to get into the specifics of a nervous response vs. a hormonal response, I'd be happy to.

Otherwise, you're right. You're nitpicking, but you're right.


In any case, the phenomenon of pain is a trait that is directly connected to the presence of a nervous system. We also have hormonal responses to our environment, but it's a completely different signaling pathway than that which governs pain. They're not even close to being similar, though they are known to occasionally interact.

so, simply because they experience the world in a different spectrum plants are not afforded the same luxury as animals?

I might by " nitpicking " but I'm trying to make a point that plants are very much alive.
so what? both plants and animals are delicious.:woot:

[Carcharodon]

so, simply because they experience the world in a different spectrum plants are not afforded the same luxury as animals?

I might by " nitpicking " but I'm trying to make a point that plants are very much alive.
so what? both plants and animals are delicious.:woot:Only an idiot would argue that plants aren't alive.

A different spectrum? I'm not sure how I can put this...but plants have far less sensory input than we do.

We have nervous systems and hormonal function.

Plants simply have hormonal function.

If we had only our hormonal messenger system, we would not feel pain. It comes down to the very nature and function of those systems. The plant hormonal system is only superficially different than our own, and functions on nearly the exact same principles.

[raybia]

so, simply because they experience the world in a different spectrum plants are not afforded the same luxury as animals?

I might by " nitpicking " but I'm trying to make a point that plants are very much alive.
so what? both plants and animals are delicious.:woot:

Agree. If people (who are living) cannot eat food that is either alive or once alive, then what are we to eat; rocks and twinkies?

[Jake Cassidy]

Agree. If people (who are living) cannot eat food that is either alive or once alive, then what are we to eat; rocks and twinkies?

We could always eat vegetarians and vegans. :woot:


Did someone actually say that meat is unhealthy? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

[The Last Meatbag]

I must confess. I do go out and murder families of cows.


Then, I burn all the bodies. I do not murder them for food, HA!

Only for the pleasure.







Nah, but srsly tho. If you're a vegan, you're a vegan and I respect your beliefs, but insulting people for eating meat?

Not the way of spreading the good vegan word. I'm sure we could have had many a nobel prize winning cow if it weren't for those damn McDonald's :csad:

[Gilpesh]

We could always eat vegetarians and vegans. :woot:


Did someone actually say that meat is unhealthy? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Right. Meat is healthy for you... all the s**t people put into the cow to beef it up... now that is unhealthy for you.

[Superhobo]

I'll confess, I love beef jerky.



:o

[Jake Cassidy]

Right. Meat is healthy for you... all the s**t people put into the cow to beef it up... now that is unhealthy for you.

As long as it tastes good, I don't really give a s**t.

[Jake Cassidy]

I must confess. I do go out and murder families of cows.


Then, I burn all the bodies. I do not murder them for food, HA!

Only for the pleasure.


I do that with people. The only difference is before I burn the bodies, I put their heads in my freezer. :woot:

[The Last Meatbag]

I put them in random stranger's beds :O

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2000/02/01/godfather.jpg

[Yurka]

I seriously think I would die without meat. I dont know how vegetarians do it.

[Nirvana]

So me and a good friend always wanted to try something, picture this: You're at Warped Tour, and you stop directly in front of a PETA booth while chewing on a burger obnoxiously saying "Oh, what's this for? What'd ya got here?" while savoring the burger "mmmm, this cow is delicious!"

[Jake Cassidy]

^ I've done something like that before. It really pisses them off. It was hilarious.

[lazur]

WOW, I can't believe that such a 'basic' thing could even generate this many pages of discussion.

For the original poster, I'll put it this way: If you find that 'meat' is murder, then you must also refrain from consuming any 'animal' protein. This, therefore, does not make you a 'Vegetarian' (which is a healthy lifestyle, btw), because Vegetarians consume eggs, cheese, milk and virtually all other types of 'non-meat' animal foods, usually including 'fish', all of which also result, eventually, in the animal's death. Therefore, if you're argument is 'moral' in nature, which it surely must be if you're talking about the mistreatment of animals, then this makes you a 'Vegan' - or the political equivelant of an 'extremist'.

If you ask any number of 'qualified' doctors on the planet if the consumption of meat is vital to human health, you will get a resounding YES. This is because humans are not absolute herbivores in biological composition, nor are we completely carnivorous. Humans are Omnivores (omnivorous), requiring nutritional sustenance from both plants and animals alike. But more importantly, humans are MADE OF 'animal proteins.' For example, a 'human' piece of steak and a 'cow' piece of steak both contain the same types of proteins.

What ARE animal proteins, you ask? Animal proteins are unique proteins which are contained in *all* types of animal meat, including human flesh (even if you're a Vegan, though in significantly lower quanity due to this ridiculous diet - YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT). These proteins can *only* be found in meat. Animal proteins are composed of nine unique amino acids - 'unique' meaning not found in any other source. These amino acids are vital to the body's proper absorption of Iron, which in turn generates red blood cells. If you are a Vegan, then you do not get enough (or any) of these NECESSARY amino acids. Also, meat is the only viable source of Iron for humans because meat contains a specific type of Iron called 'Heme-Iron' - the type of Iron that is optimally absorbed by the body. This is why Vegans are constantly receiving medical treatment for 'iron deficiency'. Iron deficiency, of course, results in a low red blood cell count, which can then lead to a weakened immune system, and, if you continue to be stubborn about not eating meat, eventually self-inflicted death.

And don't even take the position that 'vitamins' are going to aid you in your 'meat abstinence' quest, or that you can find 'alternative' sources of these amino acids, which only exist in meat. You cannot 'duplicate' meat. This isn't Star Trek and you don't have a 'replicator'. As advanced as science is, it still hasn't found a way to produce living tissue from non-living tissue. We still can't produce Heme-Iron from plants. Therefore, the type of 'protein substance' required in order to survive cannot be 'artificially' created through processing 'Soy' or any other NON-ANIMAL protein.

Then again, even if you do find and eat a 'Heme Iron' pill or 'alternative', if such a thing even exists, keep in mind that the source of that pill is the meat of a precious animal who took a dirt nap just for you. Which means you're either screwed because of your 'belief' that eating animal meat is murder, or you just choose to live a lie. If it's the latter, please, by all means, pop that pill and allow yourself to be completely 'duped' by your 'cause' so that you can continue to live in ignorance of the facts.

While we're at it, here are some other things found in meat that your body needs:

Copper, zinc, thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, pyridoxine and vitamin B12. In fact, did you know that meat contains ALL of the vitamins? Yes, you read the word 'ALL' correctly. Now, preparation does have a way of reducing the value of some of these vitamins and nutrients (such as vitamin C), which is why the consumption of 'fresh' fruits and vegetables is also necessary to survival.

In other words, if you don't eat animals, you will eventually get sick and die from self-inflicted lack of nutrition. Then again, going toward and then jumping off the edge to prove a point that doesn't actually exist is pretty much what 'extremists' do anyway, so please don't let me stop you...

[Apollo]

You Savages!!



*chumps on steak sandwich*

[Damien Rage]

OK...not to make people mad, but vegaterians irritate me to no end...for the sole reason that (I work in a banquet kitchen) and when I'm all crazy busy, then out of now where get a call on my radio that I need to make something special, asap...drives me up the wall. Now really, I swear I'm not a hater, but if you have speacial eating requirements and going to a convention (or some other big function thingy) set up something ahead of time. I love when I see a special diet need on the prep list for the next day so I have time to make something nice instead of pulling something out of thin air that will look like crap.

As for the bleeding heart vegans...get a life. Meat is murder? Whatever...becuase that carrot has no life force of its own...fruits and veggies just magically apear...

And I am all for the ethical treatment of animals...but I know my place on the food chain.

::edit::
ok to clarify, it's not the vegaterian that irritates me...it's the fact that they are going to want something different is not known ahead of time.

[Ice-man]

Spicy delight Veggie burger by the pound.
Spicy delight circle pitting all around.
Spicy delight Veggie burger by the pound.
Spicy delight circle pitting all around.

[Gilpesh]

Because of this thread, if any vegans produce anything on campus at my college.

I will be there with whole signs that read, "Stop these flithy plant murderers!" and "Just cause plants don't have cute faces... doesn't mean you can just murder them!"

I might even bring a big bucket of green paint.

[Mr Sparkle]

Agree. If people (who are living) cannot eat food that is either alive or once alive, then what are we to eat; rocks and twinkies?

twinkies are MURDER!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/TwinkieTheKid.jpg

look at him!:cmad: LOOK AT HIM!!!!:cmad::cmad::cmad:

[Logan's Runt]

Because of this thread, if any vegans produce anything on campus at my college.

I will be there with whole signs that read, "Stop these flithy plant murderers!" and "Just cause plants don't have cute faces... doesn't mean you can just murder them!"

I might even bring a big bucket of green paint.

My husband has a tshirt that says 'how many vegetables had to die for your stupid salad?!' :woot:

[Hudson]

I love Bacon.

[bell110]

Soylent Green Is People!!!!

[chaseter]

A fairly large percent of cows and pigs survive the bolt" and regain consciousness whilst having their throats slit... then they have a few minutes of life left to dangle upsidedown whilst bleeding in agony....
Actually no. Pigs do not get 'the bolt' so you are wrong there. Pigs are a kosher animal and therefore must be killed while still alive. Although technically, after the shock...they are brain dead. Secondly, the only way a cow would regain consciousness is if the person shot the bolt wrong. There brain isn't hard to miss seeing as there forehead is rather large. The animal, while being bleed, does sometimes jerk but that is simply the ATP and muscles contracting and expending. Lastly, the factory is suppose to check for signs of life before cutting their throat. They check for the responses in the eyes and they also barely poke it with a knife to see if there is any response. If so, they proceed. If the animal somehow wakes up while being bled to death, the bleeding is rather quick and they die fast. So the process is rather quite humaine. All facilities are USDA inspected and if any signs of this are found, they are shutdown.

meat is unhealthy
We have canines, we were meant to eat meat:o Meat also contains many vitamins, minerals, and protein that our body needs.

[Carcharodon]

Agree. If people (who are living) cannot eat food that is either alive or once alive, then what are we to eat; rocks and twinkies?Okay, can you show me where anybody argued that plants aren't alive? You people keep mentioning these idiots, yet I've seen no sign of them. :huh:

[Carcharodon]

Animal proteins are composed of nine unique amino acids - 'unique' meaning not found in any other source.I call ******** on this one.

There are nine essential amino acids. These amino acids are so named because they must be ingested, and they are not produced by our own bodies. It has nothing to do with meat exclusivity.

Then again, this is to the best of my knowledge. If you can provide a source that tells what these amino acids are, and that says they can ONLY be attained from meat, I'll have to reconsider.

EDIT: All essential amino acids may be obtained from plant sources, and even strict vegetarian diets can provide all dietary requirements, provided they are based on a variety of whole plant foods. Some believe that careful monitoring of nutrient levels is important in strict vegetarian diets, but there are virtually no cases of protein-deficiency among populations consuming adequate calories. The only common cases of protein-deficiency occur among populations that are chronically undernourished.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

[Jerry!]

The guy who started the thread said something about plants not being alive in the same way animals are.

[Carcharodon]

The guy who started the thread said something about plants not being alive in the same way animals are.He probably meant with respect to consciousness....but yeah, that's pretty bad wording. :o

I wonder how many people really don't view plants as living organisms...

[Jerry!]

I don't really understand the whole vegan movement thing, or trying to convince people that meat is murder. Some people just can't live like that, for medical reasons.

[Carcharodon]

I don't really understand the whole vegan movement thing, or trying to convince people that meat is murder. Some people just can't live like that, for medical reasons.Well, while I certainly think animals should be treated better than they are (for their health AND our own), I don't view meat as murder. I love a nice, juicy steak every once in a while.

[DBella]

I can't live without chicken meat. Every other meat, I can easily refrain from eating, except chicken. I don't eat any type of meat product from pigs because I have too much love for Wilbur. Whenever I see ham/pork, I see Wilbur's face.

[chaseter]

Okay, can you show me where anybody argued that plants aren't alive? You people keep mentioning these idiots, yet I've seen no sign of them. :huh:
Plants are alive:huh: No they aren't sentient or have a central nervous system but they do respond to their environment and have irritability responses to negative stimuli. Plus, once they die, the deposit nitrogen into the ground for future utilization for other species. So yes, plants are alive.

[lazur]

I call ******** on this one.

There are nine essential amino acids. These amino acids are so named because they must be ingested, and they are not produced by our own bodies. It has nothing to do with meat exclusivity.

Yes, they can be found in our own bodies. As to the 'exclusivity', you can get these amino acids from not just meat, but from eggs and dairy products. However, the 'Vegan' movement calls for the complete absence of ANY animal protein in the diet. Which is a bad thing.

Then again, this is to the best of my knowledge. If you can provide a source that tells what these amino acids are, and that says they can ONLY be attained from meat, I'll have to reconsider.

EDIT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

Just do a Google search for 'animal protein and amino acids'.

My other point, however, has nothing do with animal protein, but everything to do with Iron, and a specific type of Iron the body requires called 'Heme-Iron'. This type of Iron IS only available in meat and animal products. Fruits and vegetables only produce Non-Heme-Iron, which is more difficult for the body to absorb, resulting in most of it exiting the body as waste. Human beings on non-animal diets cannot take in enough Iron from only those food sources without encountering severe Iron deficiency problems.

[chaseter]

I can't live without chicken meat. Every other meat, I can easily refrain from eating, except chicken. I don't eat any type of meat product from pigs because I have too much love for Wilbur. Whenever I see ham/pork, I see Wilbur's face.
Wilbur tastes might fine:o Now Templeton on the other hand:woot:

[DBella]

Wilbur tastes might fine:o Now Templeton on the other hand:woot:
I know he does. He tastes like chicken. :up: :csad:
I am sure there are people who think Templeton tastes mighty fine too. *cringes*

[Carcharodon]

Plants are alive:huh: No they aren't sentient or have a central nervous system but they do respond to their environment and have irritability responses to negative stimuli. Plus, once they die, the deposit nitrogen into the ground for future utilization for other species. So yes, plants are alive.Way to agree with me. :huh: You sure told me!

[DBella]

Way to agree with me. :huh: You sure told me!
What side are you on? You seem to be arguing for vegetarians and yet you say you eat meat once in a while?

[Carcharodon]

Yes, they can be found in our own bodies. As to the 'exclusivity', you can get these amino acids from not just meat, but from eggs and dairy products. However, the 'Vegan' movement calls for the complete absence of ANY animal protein in the diet. Which is a bad thing.


Just do a Google search for 'animal protein and amino acids'.

My other point, however, has nothing do with animal protein, but everything to do with Iron, and a specific type of Iron the body requires called 'Heme-Iron'. This type of Iron IS only available in meat and animal products. Fruits and vegetables only produce Non-Heme-Iron, which is more difficult for the body to absorb, resulting in most of it exiting the body as waste. Human beings on non-animal diets cannot take in enough Iron from only those food sources without encountering severe Iron deficiency problems.The point I'm referring to however is flawed. The link I just directed you to shows that pretty well. :huh:

[Carcharodon]

What side are you on? You seem to be arguing for vegetarians and yet you say you eat meat once in a while?I'm on the side that isn't retarded and realizes that plants are alive, but they have no capacity to feel/process pain and no physiological reason to. :huh:

[Jerry!]

I think everyone is on that "side".

[Carcharodon]

I think everyone is on that "side".You'd be surprised.

[DBella]

I'm on the side that isn't retarded and realizes that plants are alive, but they have no capacity to feel/process pain and no physiological reason to. :huh:
Why are you confused? :huh:
I don't read all your posts (blame it on distractions), hence my question.

[DBella]

I think everyone is on that "side".
That's what I thought. So which poster on this thread is 'retarded'?

[Carcharodon]

Why are you confused? :huh:
I don't read all your posts (blame it on distractions), hence my question.I wasn't confused. :huh:

I am now. :huh: :csad:

[DBella]

I wasn't confused. :huh:

I am now. :huh: :csad:
I have that effect on people. :csad:

[Rando Aces]

i like meat. delicious. i also like dogs and cats. thats why i dont eat them. i dont respect cows or chickens or pigs. thats why i eat them.

[Iceman]

i like meat. delicious. i also like dogs and cats. thats why i dont eat them. i dont respect cows or chickens or pigs. thats why i eat them.but cats taste so good! :csad:

[QueerMike]

Yes but do we need to eat meat to survive? I sure as hell don't. YOu can keep on with your barbarous ways but at least I sleep at night knowing I'm not a murderer.

Physically speaking, eating meat has no benefit. It does however help us survive. It teaches the animal kingdom an important lesson - DON'T MESS WITH US!:cmad:

**** YOU BAMBI, AND YOUR ***** OF A MOTHER TOO!!

[QueerMike]

It's sick that an animal is born to die.

And what are we born for, to live forever?

[QueerMike]

G-d created animals and gave specific instructions for the killing and consuming of said animals... Yeah, meat's fine.

Due to my recent displeasure with God, I have to say this is a load of poopoo. God's word mean's nothing, it is simply one man's attempt to conquer us all and keep us away from him while he lives on for eternity. What better way than to keep us fighting with the animals?

We probably shouldn't be eating the animals but it's to late now, we're hooked. Besides, how much you want to bet that some animal started it and attacked us first? Well WHOSE LAUGHING NOW GROUND CHUCK!?!?!:twisted:

[Jake Cassidy]

Vegans remind me of Scientologists and some religious groups. People trying to make the rest of believe in what they do.

[Poetic Chaos]

I guess today I have to agree (Good Friday :( )

[Arc-Light]

With out the protein in meat, mankind would not be where it is today.

[SuperMonkey]

quadruple post much? :confused:

[chaseter]

I wasn't confused. :huh:

I am now. :huh: :csad:
I misread your post earlier...but now you have my ultimate power behind you. Anyways, you are shark and sharks eat meat so STFU:cmad::cmad::cmad:

[chaseter]

Due to my recent displeasure with God, I have to say this is a load of poopoo. God's word mean's nothing, it is simply one man's attempt to conquer us all and keep us away from him while he lives on for eternity. What better way than to keep us fighting with the animals?

We probably shouldn't be eating the animals but it's to late now, we're hooked. Besides, how much you want to bet that some animal started it and attacked us first? Well WHOSE LAUGHING NOW GROUND CHUCK!?!?!:twisted:
Lets not turn this thread into another religious debate on what you do or don't believe in. He was just simply justifying feasting on animal corpses. Anyways, look at our breathren the chimp. They eat meat whenever they get the chance and certainly have the teeth(canines)to eat meat. We also have canines and have been eating meat since our conception whether that be spirutual or biological. To add to all that lovliness, humans lack the enzymes or bacteria in our gut to digest complex carbohydrates like many polysacharides such as starch. However, ruminants such as cows and lambs have the proper enzymes to do such things. So we as man, would not survive eating plants alone. Vegetarians don't wither and die due to our production and processing, adding essential vitamins, amino acids and proteins to promote a healthy life style. So, if we were tossed on an island with nothing to eat but what we catch, a person would have a better chance at survival if he ate meat.

[Sawyer]

If God didnt want me to eat meat, he would have made it taste like vegetables...

[lazur]

The point I'm referring to however is flawed. The link I just directed you to shows that pretty well. :huh:

You're right. I didn't hit the link the first time I read your reply. My apologies.

You're also right about the amino acids found commonly in animal protein also being available through vegetation. I did take the liberty of exaggerating that point, but it was not due to an ulterior motive. The fact is simply that while those proteins are available in vegetation, they are far less common than in meat. In order to make sure you get enough vegetation into your diet to meet your daily needs, it takes an improbable amount of discipline and an improbable amount of consumption of the right vegetation, which is highly (statistically) unlikely. This is why many Vegans suffer from illness, usually resulting in low iron levels, anemia and a low red blood cell count.

But the main point I tried to make is that 'Heme-Iron' is only found in meat; and Heme-Iron is the Iron required by the human body to remain healthy. It absorbs extremely well into the body. People don't consider how important Iron is to the human's physiology. On the other hand, too much of a good thing can also be very bad.

Nature created humans in a certain way. Politics will not change the natural and logical biological facts.

[Arc-Light]

quadruple post much? :confused:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd45/INBuckeye/Understand-Panda.jpg

[Hudson]

meat is tasty

[Carcharodon]

You're right. I didn't hit the link the first time I read your reply. My apologies.

You're also right about the amino acids found commonly in animal protein also being available through vegetation. I did take the liberty of exaggerating that point, but it was not due to an ulterior motive. The fact is simply that while those proteins are available in vegetation, they are far less common than in meat. In order to make sure you get enough vegetation into your diet to meet your daily needs, it takes an improbable amount of discipline and an improbable amount of consumption of the right vegetation, which is highly (statistically) unlikely. This is why many Vegans suffer from illness, usually resulting in low iron levels, anemia and a low red blood cell count.

But the main point I tried to make is that 'Heme-Iron' is only found in meat; and Heme-Iron is the Iron required by the human body to remain healthy. It absorbs extremely well into the body. People don't consider how important Iron is to the human's physiology. On the other hand, too much of a good thing can also be very bad.

Nature created humans in a certain way. Politics will not change the natural and logical biological facts.Iron is really interesting as a nutrient. It's usually highly underestimated.

I agree, by the way: we are meant to eat meat and vegetables, and it's pretty apparent given our morphology/physiology. I'm not sure how people can say it's unethical to eat animals when this is clearly the case. Your heme-iron point just further supports this standpoint. :yay:

[QueerMike]

With out the protein in meat, mankind would not be where it is today.

Meateater here.

WTF are you talking about? I eat meat but I don't buy this protein garbage. I mean, it's dead and sometimes frozen and then cooked, how nutricous can it be?:huh:

The only benefit from eating meat only comes from fresh, raw meat and that has limited value to.

[chaseter]

Meateater here.

WTF are you talking about? I eat meat but I don't nuy this protein garbage. I mean, it's dead, how nutricous can it be?:huh:
Before making ridiculous statements like this, bone up on some facts:o

[raybia]

Due to my recent displeasure with God, I have to say this is a load of poopoo. God's word mean's nothing, it is simply one man's attempt to conquer us all and keep us away from him while he lives on for eternity. What better way than to keep us fighting with the animals?

:

God's word means nothing to you. Your comment is definitely a matter of opinion rather than of fact.

[Carcharodon]

He's trolling.

[raybia]

He's trolling.

I guess everyone needs a scapegoat. Its easier to blame others for our misfortunes rather to accept responsible for our success or lackthereof

[QueerMike]

So we as man, would not survive eating plants alone. Vegetarians don't wither and die due to our production and processing, adding essential vitamins, amino acids and proteins to promote a healthy life style. So, if we were tossed on an island with nothing to eat but what we catch, a person would have a better chance at survival if he ate meat.

What one physically ingests has no bearing on how long(or short) they live. We don't need to eat to survive people.

[QueerMike]

Before making ridiculous statements like this, bone up on some facts:o

You want facts Jimbo? How 'bout this: The only FACTS you have are little itty bitty written scratches and markings. If you call that facts I call you a damn fool.

[QueerMike]

I guess everyone needs a scapegoat. Its easier to blame others for our misfortunes rather to accept responsible for our success or lackthereof

Just like you blame me and others like me by banning us and ignoring us and running to the establishment for advice.

Tell me, O' Prince of Ignorance, what misfortunes do I have? What am I not accepting reponsibility for?:twisted:

[EasternComfort]

Animal "Rights" and the New Man Haters

By Edwin Locke, Ph.D.

Recently a sixth grade student threatened to bomb the headquarters of a prominent corporation, the Gillette Company. Gillette's "crime"? The use of animals to test the safety of their products. This student's role models have not been so hesitant. In the name of so-called "animal rights," terrorists have committed hundreds of violent crimes. They have vandalized or fire bombed meat companies, fur stores, fast-food restaurants, leather shops and medical research laboratories across North America. The animal "rights" movement, however, is not about the humane treatment of animals. Its goal is the animalistic treatment of human beings.

According to these terrorists, it is immoral to eat meat, to wear fur coats or leather shoes, and to use animals in research—even if it would lead to cures for deadly diseases. The terrorists are unmoved by the indisputable fact that animal research saves human lives. PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) makes this frighteningly clear: "Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it."

How do the animal "rights" advocates try to justify their position? As someone who has debated them for years on college campuses and in the media, I know firsthand that the whole movement is based on a single—invalid—syllogism, namely: men feel pain and have rights; animals feel pain; therefore, animals have rights. This argument is entirely specious, because man's rights do not depend on his ability to feel pain; they depend on his ability to think.

Rights are ethical principles applicable only to beings capable of reason and choice. There is only one fundamental right: a man's right to his own life. To live successfully, man must use his rational faculty—which is exercised by choice. The choice to think can be negated only by the use of physical force. To survive and prosper, men must be free from the initiation of force by other men—free to use their own minds to guide their choices and actions. Rights protect men against the use of force by other men.

None of this is relevant to animals. Animals do not survive by rational thought (nor by sign languages allegedly taught to them by psychologists). They survive through inborn reflexes and sensory-perceptual association. They cannot reason. They cannot learn a code of ethics. A lion is not immoral for eating a zebra (or even for attacking a man). Predation is their natural and only means of survival; they do not have the capacity to learn any other.

Only man has the power to deal with other members of his own species by voluntary means: rational persuasion and a code of morality rather than physical force. To claim that man's use of animals is immoral is to claim that we have no right to our own lives and that we must sacrifice our welfare for the sake of creatures who cannot think or grasp the concept of morality. It is to elevate amoral animals to a moral level higher than ourselves—a flagrant contradiction. Of course, it is proper not to cause animals gratuitous suffering. But this is not the same as inventing a bill of rights for them—at our expense.

The granting of fictional rights to animals is not an innocent error. We do not have to speculate about the motive, because the animal "rights" advocates have revealed it quite openly. Again from PETA: "Mankind is the biggest blight on the face of the earth"; "I do not believe that a human being has a right to life"; "I would rather have medical experiments done on our children than on animals." These self-styled lovers of life do not love animals; rather, they hate men.

The animal "rights" terrorists are like the Unabomber and Oklahoma City bombers. They are not idealists seeking justice, but nihilists seeking destruction for the sake of destruction. They do not want to uplift mankind, to help him progress from the swamp to the stars. They want mankind's destruction; they want him not just to stay in the swamp but to disappear into its muck.

There is only one proper answer to such people: to declare proudly and defiantly, in the name of morality, a man's right to his life, his liberty, and the pursuit of his own happiness.

[Carcharodon]

While that guy is mostly full of **** and hot air, he has an overall pretty good point.

I disagree with the notion that the goal of (most of) the activists is the animalistic treatment of humans, and I disregard the notion that PETA should be the representatives of everybody in the movement.

I also believe that human rights are just as arbitrary and fictitious as those that are being created for animals. That doesn't negate their validity, but I believe that we have no more, "right," to live than animals.

The guy's a little full of himself.

[ferret]

Many vegetarians/vegans hate PETA for giving sane veggies/animal right activists such a bad rep, can you blame them?

[Carcharodon]

PETA shouldn't be taken seriously. At all. The people who give PETA the most attention are the ones who are most vocal in opposing them.

[jaguarr]

What one physically ingests has no bearing on how long(or short) they live. We don't need to eat to survive people.

:pal:

jag

[Jerry!]

PETA is just high entertainment to me. They sure as hell aren't making me change my mind, but they are looking like fools trying to with their extravagant protests.

[EasternComfort]

I also believe that human rights are just as arbitrary and fictitious as those that are being created for animals. That doesn't negate their validity, but I believe that we have no more, "right," to live than animals.

What is the logical conclusion to this train of thought? Since animals and man's life are equal then all of this applies "it is immoral to eat meat, to wear fur coats or leather shoes, and to use animals in research—even if it would lead to cures for deadly diseases." Though this only scratches the surface since any action man takes must be carefully looked at. Industry and other expansions must be greatly limited because if we expand in this nature habitats of animals will suffer leading to the death of them at our hands. Since of course own lives equal that of other animals we mustn't interfere. Which leads us to it's natural conclusion "the animalistic treatment of human beings."

[Carcharodon]

What is the logical conclusion to this train of thought? Since animals and man's life are equal then all of this applies "it is immoral to eat meat, to wear fur coats or leather shoes, and to use animals in research—even if it would lead to cures for deadly diseases." Though this only scratches the surface since any action man takes must be carefully looked at. Industry and other expansions must be greatly limited because if we expand in this nature habitats of animals will suffer leading to the death of them at our hands. Since of course own lives equal that of other animals we mustn't interfere. Which leads us to it's natural conclusion "the animalistic treatment of human beings."Nooooo, it leads to the conclusion that, "rights," do not exist in nature. Rights are not some divine gift, they're rules created by men that apply only between men.

When you get right down to it, we have no more right to live than they do. That does NOT, however, lead to the inevitable conclusion that it's immoral to eat them.

This is because, "morality," is also a human construct. It's all completely arbitrary.

I love eating animals. I just don't happen to believe that we have any more right to life than they do simply because we occupy a higher position in the food web.

[Superhobo]

Animal "Rights" and the New Man Haters

By Edwin Locke, Ph.D.

Recently a sixth grade student threatened to bomb the headquarters of a prominent corporation, the Gillette Company. Gillette's "crime"? The use of animals to test the safety of their products. This student's role models have not been so hesitant. In the name of so-called "animal rights," terrorists have committed hundreds of violent crimes. They have vandalized or fire bombed meat companies, fur stores, fast-food restaurants, leather shops and medical research laboratories across North America. The animal "rights" movement, however, is not about the humane treatment of animals. Its goal is the animalistic treatment of human beings.

According to these terrorists, it is immoral to eat meat, to wear fur coats or leather shoes, and to use animals in research—even if it would lead to cures for deadly diseases. The terrorists are unmoved by the indisputable fact that animal research saves human lives. PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) makes this frighteningly clear: "Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it."

How do the animal "rights" advocates try to justify their position? As someone who has debated them for years on college campuses and in the media, I know firsthand that the whole movement is based on a single—invalid—syllogism, namely: men feel pain and have rights; animals feel pain; therefore, animals have rights. This argument is entirely specious, because man's rights do not depend on his ability to feel pain; they depend on his ability to think.

Rights are ethical principles applicable only to beings capable of reason and choice. There is only one fundamental right: a man's right to his own life. To live successfully, man must use his rational faculty—which is exercised by choice. The choice to think can be negated only by the use of physical force. To survive and prosper, men must be free from the initiation of force by other men—free to use their own minds to guide their choices and actions. Rights protect men against the use of force by other men.

None of this is relevant to animals. Animals do not survive by rational thought (nor by sign languages allegedly taught to them by psychologists). They survive through inborn reflexes and sensory-perceptual association. They cannot reason. They cannot learn a code of ethics. A lion is not immoral for eating a zebra (or even for attacking a man). Predation is their natural and only means of survival; they do not have the capacity to learn any other.

Only man has the power to deal with other members of his own species by voluntary means: rational persuasion and a code of morality rather than physical force. To claim that man's use of animals is immoral is to claim that we have no right to our own lives and that we must sacrifice our welfare for the sake of creatures who cannot think or grasp the concept of morality. It is to elevate amoral animals to a moral level higher than ourselves—a flagrant contradiction. Of course, it is proper not to cause animals gratuitous suffering. But this is not the same as inventing a bill of rights for them—at our expense.

The granting of fictional rights to animals is not an innocent error. We do not have to speculate about the motive, because the animal "rights" advocates have revealed it quite openly. Again from PETA: "Mankind is the biggest blight on the face of the earth"; "I do not believe that a human being has a right to life"; "I would rather have medical experiments done on our children than on animals." These self-styled lovers of life do not love animals; rather, they hate men.

The animal "rights" terrorists are like the Unabomber and Oklahoma City bombers. They are not idealists seeking justice, but nihilists seeking destruction for the sake of destruction. They do not want to uplift mankind, to help him progress from the swamp to the stars. They want mankind's destruction; they want him not just to stay in the swamp but to disappear into its muck.

There is only one proper answer to such people: to declare proudly and defiantly, in the name of morality, a man's right to his life, his liberty, and the pursuit of his own happiness.

What a load of garbage.

*checks*

And from an objectivist - well, that's not surprising.

[Superhobo]

Nooooo, it leads to the conclusion that, "rights," do not exist in nature. Rights are not some divine gift, they're rules created by men that apply only between men.

When you get right down to it, we have no more right to live than they do. That does NOT, however, lead to the inevitable conclusion that it's immoral to eat them.

This is because, "morality," is also a human construct. It's all completely arbitrary.

I love eating animals. I just don't happen to believe that we have any more right to life than they do simply because we occupy a higher position in the food web.

Well, no. There's morality and altruism in many other species - elephants, dogs, penguins, apes among others. That's a big misconception, it really is.

"How one leopard changed its spots ... and saved a baby baboon
By ZOE BRENNAN

She is the ultimate predator - a sleek and stealthy killer. Pouncing on her prey, she silences the baboon with one swipe of a vicious paw. Then, suddenly, something stirs in the dead animal's fur, and the law of the jungle is rewritten.

From the bedraggled pelt of her kill crawls a tiny infant - a one-day-old baboon. In that moment, this young leopard forgets she is a hunter, and nurtures the baby baboon as if it were her own cub.

Smelling blood, a pack of hyenas gather to finish off the kill. Legadema, as she has been named by the camera crew who took these moving shots, carefully carries the baby baboon high up into a tree for protection. There, she cuddles the newborn to her for warmth through the long, African night.

"It was as if nature had turned on its head completely," says Dereck Joubert, a filmmaker who followed Legadema for three-and-a-half years in her natural habitat, the Okavango Delta of Botswana - the verdant flood plains known as Africa's Garden of Eden.

"She had killed the mother primate, but then found this live new-born on the ground. The little baboon called out, and we thought we were going to hear a major crunch and the leopard smacking its lips, but instead the baby baboon put its paws out and walked towards the young leopard.

"Legadema paused for a moment, apparently not knowing what to do. Then she gently picked it up in her mouth, holding it by the scruff of its neck and carrying the infant up a tree to keep it safe."

Baboons are arch enemies of the leopard, and one of their major food sources, but Legadema - the local Setswana word for "light from the sky" - was in the transitional stage between cub and predator, and it seems her maternal instincts came to the fore.

The film crew kept watch through the night. "Several times, the baby baboon fell out of the tree," says Joubert. "Each time, Legadema raced down to pick her up before the hyenas descended, and carried her back up to safety.

"The baboon clearly thought of Legadema as a surrogate mother. For several hours, they nestled in the tree."

He adds: "Legadema was like a cat looking after her own kitten, rather than predator and prey. She was part inquisitive cub, part mother -and forgot momentarily that she was a hunter. It was quite extraordinary and very moving to watch."

Tragically, when morning came, the camera team realised that the tiny baboon was no longer showing signs of life. "We think it was simply too small to survive the night without its natural mother and the sustenance she could provide," says Joubert. "As the sun came up, Legadema realised that the baby had died, and moved on."

Joubert observed this scene while filming a wildlife documentary, Eye Of The Leopard, which follows Legadema from birth to adulthood. "We came across a mother leopard and her eightdayold cub, Legadema, and followed her as she grew up," he explains.

"We were filming the adult leopardess when this adorable little cub stuck her head out of the log which was their den. It was possibly the first time she had ventured into the outside world, and she stumbled around in the sunlight, falling over as if she were drunk."

On finishing their project, the film crew left Legadema to follow her own path in the wild - but they still check up on her occasionally.

Joubert adds: "We have just heard that she will soon have her own baby to care for, just as she cared for that tiny day-old baboon." Eye Of The Leopard premieres on National Geographic HD Channel on Sunday, December 17, at 8pm and launches the new channel Nat Geo Wild in March 2007'


I can post more, if you'd like.