I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[TheSaintofKillers]

Overall really liked? "Spider-Man" and "X-Men 2"-- merely because I was expecting even worse. After much thought, I've decided that setting the bar extremely low for comic book filmmakers only lowers myself. I loved the web-swinging scenes and most of Norman Osborn's scenes in "Spider-Man," almost all the Doc Ock stuff in "Spider-Man 2," all of Magneto's scenes in "X-Men 2," and the desert battle scene in "Hulk." Snatches of excellence. Not as good as an excellent movie overall, but something from which to take solace.

"Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" kicked ass. :up:

One thing's for sure, if they would make a dvd with the "best" marvel movie scenes (put in there any webslinging spider-man scenes, Hulk fighting tanks + copters, Wolvie's berserker rage in x2, nearly ANYTHING with Magneto in the second movie, some of the great fights between Spidey and Doc Ock) you might have one heck of a great random Dvd scenes! I'd love for them to release such a thing. Alas, I doubt it's possible.

Ten years ago, I could have never (even in my wildest dreams) wish to see such awesome scenes like the one with Hulk fighting Tanks or Spidey simply swinging around. For that, you can bet i'm grateful.

I'm hoping for such a scene with Doom, actually, and then I might die happily. ;)

[Herr Logan]

Like I said before, I won't give thanks for being served ***** that's called steak. However, when it comes to the web-slinging scenes, Doc Ock, Norman, Magneto and tank-stompin' fun with the Hulk, as far as I'm concerned, it's all you can eat skirt steak fajitas with unlimited refills on soda. :)

[Ratcrawler]

I just read in one of those British movie magazines that McMahon said Doom won't even put on the mask until after his last fight scene in the movie. Just thought I'd say something.

[snazzy J]

For anyone still interested, I made a thread in Fan Fiction about my Doom plot. The link's in my signature.

[snazzy J]

I just read in one of those British movie magazines that McMahon said Doom won't even put on the mask until after his last fight scene in the movie. Just thought I'd say something.
I suppose the skin on his face is the last to fall off.

[Kmack]

I just read in one of those British movie magazines that McMahon said Doom won't even put on the mask until after his last fight scene in the movie. Just thought I'd say something.
So, no organic skin?????? :)

[TheSaintofKillers]

So, no organic skin?????? :)

In Frost's script, he didn't have full organic steel skin till the end. So, don't get your hopes too high. ;)

[DACrowe]

Sorry Herr, wrote in a hurry I meant Victor (resist calling him Doom until he put on the armor) but sometimes I typed Reed instead. And I can write very well, I just never choose to, because I write very fast on these boards and well, it is just my nature to write sloppy when it isn't for work or in the old days school. Yes it was Doom I meant who broke the neck and Doom who threatened the world, not Reed. ;)

Does the rest meet with approval? ;)

[Herr Logan]

I just read in one of those British movie magazines that McMahon said Doom won't even put on the mask until after his last fight scene in the movie. Just thought I'd say something.

At this point, I'll believe any news like this, unsubstantiated or not.

They can only prove me wrong or surprise me by doing better. The power of negative thinking. :doom:

[Rebel_Ace]

...wrote in a hurry ... I can write very well, I just never choose to...

I too read your plot outline, and was also confused. May I offer a suggestion? When posting to a forum such as this, all we get to see are the words you type on the screen. We can't hear your voice, we can't see your face, and in fact we know next to nothing about you.

This is precisely the time you should choose to "write very well". It shows care and respect for the others on this board. It conveys your ideas in the best possible way, and it makes the best use of your time and the time spent by your readers.

As it is, your readers had to spend additional time typing to you for clarification, and you had to spend additional time typing to explain yourself. Moreover, many other readers who may have appreciated your story ideas may have abandoned reading it half way through it. So, your "rushed" typing in the end saved no time, and did not present your ideas in the best light.

Relax, there is no need to rush a post. Heck, you're typing, no one can interrupt you, or cut you off. You "have the floor" so to speak.

So, don't tell us that you can "write very well". Show us. Everyone will be better off with the results. This was meant as an honest suggestion for improved posting, not a personal slam.

[Herr Logan]

Sorry Herr, wrote in a hurry I meant Victor (resist calling him Doom until he put on the armor) but sometimes I typed Reed instead. And I can write very well, I just never choose to, because I write very fast on these boards and well, it is just my nature to write sloppy when it isn't for work or in the old days school. Yes it was Doom I meant who broke the neck and Doom who threatened the world, not Reed. ;)

Does the rest meet with approval? ;)

Like I said, this is one of the best fan-generated ideas for an alternative to this atrocity I've seen so far. I took into account that you were only describing the villain plot and not the entirety, as fame exploration, family hijinks and personal troubles are a must in a Fantastic Four movie.

I like how you didn't indicate that Von Doom and Sue Storm being a willing couple was a good idea-- thus, not having that happen at all-- but still left an element of attraction toward Sue on Doom's part. I don't remember if Doom keeping his captives in specialized cells designed to test and/or break them originated with Claremont's classic X-Men days or if I saw it on the Fantastic Four cartoon-- I feel like I saw it there, but I can't remember the actual situations. Maybe I actually read an FF book where this happened as well. In any event, it's definitely his style and I like that you put it in your synopsis.

You've got the armor, the M.O., and Doom isn't a God damn Lex Luthor wannabe. It's a damn good start. :up:

[gamwar]

ya rite bout that he not a lex wanna be

[Captain Walrus]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/mutant_circus/scaredkitty.jpg


It seems it is futile to argue with pessimists, purists, and perfectionists. The X-Men movies and Spiderman movies were awesome. Punisher was awesome. Daredevil and the Hulk sucked ass. And Fantastic Four will be awesome, because they AREN'T straying too far it seems yet. And they keep changing things closer to the comics, IE Doom's name. So I'll hold judgement until it comes out, thank you.

[Herr Logan]

You're right, it is futile. Especially when you have nothing of value to contribute.

[Sardaukar]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/mutant_circus/scaredkitty.jpg


It seems it is futile to argue with pessimists, purists, and perfectionists. The X-Men movies and Spiderman movies were awesome. Punisher was awesome. Daredevil and the Hulk sucked ass. And Fantastic Four will be awesome, because they AREN'T straying too far it seems yet. And they keep changing things closer to the comics, IE Doom's name. So I'll hold judgement until it comes out, thank you.

Well, I have to say that, yes, Daredevil did suck and it wasn't because it strayed from the comic books. In fact, it was one of the more faithful adaptations but it suffered from poor writing and direction.

I doubt that FF is going to be closer to the comics than that abomination was.

[DACrowe]

Plot outline:

-Reed begins working for old lab rival, Von Doom. Victor was Reed's rival and possibly smarter, but Victor couldn't afford his stay and with a part time job his grades slipt, then he had gotten money from some vague source...anyways he outdid Reed with funding but then disappeared awhile and re-emerged a businessman for tech labs. His assistant is the lovely Sue Storm, who both Reed and Victor lusted after for in college, but Reed won. They had a fude because Reed was too "self-involved" with his work. Anyway irony has its way and Reed ends up working FOR Victor in one of his labs.

-Reed develops a ship that could test the ability to travel through hyperspace, the speed of light. He works on this for years and greys some of his hair he strains over it, but he thinks he has it, and takes the information to NASA completely bypassing Victor and Sue. NASA wants to see it done, but an angered Victor demands he be part of the exploration. The pilots are as luck would have it Reed and Sue pulled strings with Reed's old friend in areospace, worn Ben Grimm to pilot, and his co-pilot is the new hot shot, Johnny Storm, Sue's brother. Well Victor remarks "Isn't this one big happy family."

-Victor has been hitting on Sue on/off for the most of the movie to this point, and while attracted to his genius, she doesn't want him, she obviously has unresolved feelings for Reed. Anyway the shuttle goes off and they begin experimenting as they orbit the earth. Well the thing goes into hyperdrive all right, but it is unsteady, Reed calculated wrong, and next thing you know they are crashing into the Atlantic, or Pacific, or whatever you want. Reed is trying to get the emergency controls to work but they won't. Victor calls him a fool and throws Reed out of the way and starts smashing the controls, they blow up in his face and Victor gets caught under burning and scolding metal with flames. The rest get thrown to the back of the ship. This causes the back to lose its weight limit and as it smashes, the gamma battery cell energy engulfs them for only several seconds (what created "hyperspace."). Johnny falls out of the back and flies through the air and burning flames from the ship! Rocks that Ben brought into space to sell, his own greed, crush him when the ship broke in two, too. Reed reaches his arm to its full extent and flips on the switch, as Sue disappears into the smoke. The switch causes the emergency parachuetes to save the capsul.

-Johnny somehow was alive, he did not know how, he just swimmed to the capsul though, and he couldn't reach the door, Sue was crying trying to reach him, but Reed reaches down and as nothing it seems his arm went an extra foot, but you can't be sure, and pulls Johnny in. US choppers come and take all five, with Doom in critical, to the nearest military hospital.

-Once there they are interrigated on what happened and scientists begins running tests on them. Meanwhile Von Doom is completely unradiated, but usless, he is just lying comatose almost in a complete body covered in bandages hiding most of the burns, he has burnt off his nervous system and can feel nothing. He is shipped back to New York on his lawyer's request...it seems over for him now.

-Slowly under military care they begin manifesting powers. The military is scared at first...but only at first...they want to train them....as a weapon squad if you will. And as they learn to use their powers under military supervision, the hot head Johnny Storm flies off and alerts the News media of their existence.

-The military wants them arrested and put away with public knowledge but Johnny had gone on and was an instant celeberity immeadietly. And in a cynical way the military relents. It is better to be seen as friends with the new publicity stunt than the enemy and lets the foursome go as celeberities instead of weapons.

I will continue shortly.

[DACrowe]

Oh and to adress The Thing:

-He was retired and Reed convinced him to come back for this "time changing event." Reed and Ben are strained and Ben has kind of distant himself (like the unspeaking Victor) from Reed.

Anyways:

-They get back to New York, and become a US/UN publicity stunt. They get the Baxter Building and are given whatever equipment (which is tons) that Reed wants, as he tries to cure Ben. Johnny becomes the "Human Tourch" as he had saved someone's life when he introduced himself to the world he is now a part-time superhero between interviews. He also has a woman every he wants every different week and Ben is distilled.

-Ben is drinking in a bar hidden in a trenchcoat sunglasses and a hat. He grumbles and as he leaves a blind woman who has been trying to talk to him (who he ignored) touches his shoulder and feels rock, she pulls back and Ben grits at her. He then hears on the TV on how the Human Tourch is bravely chasing two runaway cars. It is coming right their way. The Thing runs out and sees Johnny down 5 blocks shoot one over with flames, but the other is getting away. The Thing throws off his coat and yells "It's clobbering time!" He then flips it over with a backslap from his hand. The blindgirl stands in the doorway and smiles at him.


-Cut to the reporters there and Johnny is getting all the attention, the Thing asks for an interview and nobody does they all just kind blow him off, Ben gets angry and storms off.

-Reed and Sue get romantic again, and she gives him the first half of the double lockete that the parents of Sue and Johnny left them. She and Johnny put them together once when they had gotten on at the shuttle. She wants Reed to have it.

-Every week Reed visits Victor (Sue only did once) and begs for Victor's forgivness in the hospital. Victor just stares at him with eyes full of massive hatred. Sue gave Reed the snowglobe (it began in winter when Reed started working for Victor, and Victor gave Sue a snowglobe of Manhattan, who gave him **** in return) and leaves it in Victor's hand. He holds it in his hand and smashes it.

-Victor flashes back to his life as a boy in Lavertia. How his parents wanted to bring democracy, yet the dictator's goon squad came and assassinated them. Victor escaped and came to America, he worked his way to the labs for scholarship, but his rival Reed Richards outdid them...he took a loan from the mob...after graduation he was suppose to pay them back, he couldn't and tried to disappear. The local bums found him and with the leader there, they tried to kill him, in flashes we see him stand up and with determination beat them, and then flashes of him taking power from the leader, giving it to another, but taking enough money to invest...which explains everything.

-We cut back to present and his hand crushes the glass cutting himself....but he feels nothing. He then takes the shard and when the doctor comes in, he sits up and kills the doctor with it and escapes.

-The FF search for Victor to no avail.

-The FF are to go on the Today show. At screening The Thing is told by a snobby assistant they only need the other three. Reed gets angry and barks him out, saying that Reed won't be on either then, but Ben just storms out saying "I don't need this crap anyways."

-Ben goes back to his bar and is drinking and the blind girl scoots over to him, her name is Alicia. They become friends and she semi-restores his self-confidence.

-Meanwhile the other three members get back that evening to the Baxter Building first. They find themselves each fall into a trap. Sue is gassed and knocked out. While Reed is trapped in an airvent and Johnny is trapped in a small box if you will, he walks into that is freezing cold and he can't flame on, or fly. Johnny is freezing to death. Johnny is in great danger.

-Ben comes in and Victor mutters to himself, so the last quarter comes. He goes into his room, and then the walls fly off and he is trapped in a wall of mirrors, slowly closing in to crush him, and he looks up and painted/transplanted on the celling he sees his old face painted on. Reed has to watch this in horror, as in an intercom Victor mentally tortures Reed on what he is seeing.

-Reed blames himself, and the mirrors crush Ben, but Ben isn't dead, the walls shatter around him in a comic moment, Victor realizes he miscalculated The Thing's strength. The Thing smashes through and in the next room he finds Johnny dying, and says "I'm gonna' regret this" and saves Johnny's life. "DAMN!" Yells Victor, who then releases Reed on purpose.

They all regroup in a narrow hallway. Just then the intercom comes on. Victor explains they did very good, but to no avail, now they must find their calculated death. Then his early clumsy killing machines come running down the hall. Just motor machines we have now, but with machine guns mounted to them and rocket/gernade launchers. It blasts them all new ones.

-The floor collapses between them and they seem to fall to their deaths. Victor mutters to himself "too easy." He turns to a comatose Sue Storm who is kindly asleep in a chamber with machines covering her ears, mouth, and eyes, and liquid is covering her body and suit. "Hurry...we have work to do....together."

-The Fantastic Three (heheh) drift in the waters of the sewers, and The Thing pulls an out of conscienceness Johnny and Reed, proving himself more than they could have imagined in this form.

-Johnny and Reed wake up in a cheap motel room. The Thing sits in a broken chair from his weight. "Huh?" they both basically ask. Ben explains that Victor Von Doom thinks they are dead, so dead they must stay. Not until they gather their thoughts and know what Victor is doing now that his twig has snapped. Johnny wants to go to war with Victor, but Thing pushes him down, "You ain't strong enough kid 1), and I love Sue too, but 2) he'd kick your ass again and I ain't gonna' save you next time.! Got it?!" Reed is amazed at how smart Ben is and the bratish almost Johnny finally sees what must be done, even if his sister is at risk.

-We see a scared back of head sitting in a tone, in homage to ESB, Sue stands by behind him and hands him a metal helmet, and Doom dawns it and throws a cape and hood over it. He then stands up and says "It is time."

-The airwaves on all channels tune in to him, as he takes over the satallites, and even the big screen in Times Square watches it. He announces himself to the world as Dr. Doom, he announces war to the world! He threatens the UN help him take Lavertia and its people back, or he will destroy Manhattan with a nuclear bomb he built, and it will be the first of many. He starts naming cities, London, Paris, Rome, Sydney, and in that order.

-With the world at threat, the UN can't neogtiate with terrorism, but they know not what to do. The US military surronds with police and FBI the Baxter Building.

-A Special Forces team goes inside (they can't bomb it because that would set off a nuclear bomb) and they get seperated in two dark rooms. They shoot and their own bullets start hitting them, with cameras on nightvision the world watches as they kill themselves, and when some are left gas is ingested in and the last fall.

-Doom returns on screen, "I'll let that one go, next time y'all oppose Dr. Doom, you shall be doomed!"

The F3 are astounded. We have to stop him says Reed, as he sees a lifeless in the eyes Sue stand by Doom's side as his "bride."

-The Thing asks if they are willing to do this, because chances are they will end up like those Special Forces guys. The Thing doesn't care, he is like this anyways. Reed says he's with Ben to the end, and he must do this for Sue. Johnny puts his hand on top of the other two, saying "I ain't going to leave my sister with him!"

-So they sneak in from the bottom up into the Baxter Building.

-To be continued.

[RabbitSamurai]

I'm not sure I like Doom's characterization thus far...

[Kel]

Well join the legions of doom lovers then, because they don't either.....

[Herr Logan]

DACrowe, you rock.

I hope you would have more screentime and "fantastic" displays of power from the main characters than you're describing here.

"I'll let that one go, next time y'all oppose Dr. Doom, you shall be doomed!"
That was a joke, right?

[Sardaukar]

Well join the legions of doom lovers then, because they don't either.....

Yes...join us...praise the name of DOOM! ;)

[RabbitSamurai]

Why not?

ALL HAIL VON DOOM!!

[Nero_Ordin]

doom kickass but not the movie version. i'll join the legions of doom lovers.

[Skipper]

Doom show yourself - What do you look like in the upcoming movie??

[GoblinScrier]

Is this plot outline the actual plotline or is it a fan script idea ? If so, that is really good !

[RabbitSamurai]

It...is? i mean, it's good in the sense that the FF's characters are very respected, but...Von Doom as a businessman? Marrying Sue Storm? When has he EVER been interested in her other than to lure Richards (the ACCURSED Richards, excuse me) into his traps? And...he's a modern-day king, or emperor, and...and...HE WEARS METALLIC ARMOR, NOT ORGANIC WHATEVER!!!
"Enough! Doom has had all he can stand and he can't stands no more!!
-Mego Doom, from Twisted Toyfare Theater

[Herr Logan]

I would much rather see a live-action Twisted Toyfare Theater Fantastic Four story (Dr. Doom as an obsessive incompetent, Reed Richards as an arrogant bastard, Sue as the town bicycle, the Thing as a raunchy jerk, H.E.R.B.I.E. as a sadistic sex offender, Franklin as a horrid brat) used as the official adaptation of the comic book than see whatever trashy revamp they're planning for this movie as far as CEO Doom goes. At least then it would be funny and intelligent, if not scatological and inappropriate for young-un's.

[DACrowe]

Anyways also instead of a motel make them stay at Alicia's place, she gave them the adress or Thing before he went back to Baxter. That makes her role more prominent.

Anyways here we go:

-After crawling inside the Baxter Building from below they end up in a main hall. Where giant machines attack them and Thing yells for the second time "IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME!"

All kind of anarchy breaks out, and since the action is hard to write, well it is impressive. Oh and this fight is big, and they used their powers a few times when saving people, and in a montage of military training with them. But since only Human Torch and Thing had been really using their powers a lot, here we get to see Mr. Fantastic break loose to save his beloved Sue who he had just rekindled a romance for.

-They defeat them and are given free passage via special elevator to the top floor. It has been reconstructed as a cathedral, but not as in homage to Lon Chaney's Le Fantom de l'Opera. And appearing from the mist comes Dr. Doom.

-"Very theatrical" remarks Reed. Dr. Doom scoffs off the remark reclaiming his name as Dr. Doom. He then sends some giant robot monstrosity trap that the three barley destroy to Doom's shock in a suspensful scene, but he then lets Sue out when ordered. In her red dress she takes Doom's side, and falls into his arms. They kiss and he feels her, as doing so she begins crushing the FF in bubbles. Reed pleads with her to fight this. She slowly but surely does, and the bubbles go off and Doom takes her and says "No you're mine!" And as he embraces with her Reed throws the locket at her feet, she picks it up and then sees Johnny throw his at her. She puts them together, the blankness in her eyes evaporates. She then disappears into invisiblity and the FF charge Doom, but Doom sends out little minions who all, now all four (Sue fighting too) destroy these flying robot minions (too razorbats from SM1?)

-Doom pulls a lever as victory is theirs. A wall opens and before he steps inside he pushes a key code locking the lever and setting a chain reaction. The control case has C4 wired in it. It and the top of the building will blow exclaims Doom, and they have 4 seconds (afterall 5 is just too long ;) ) to live. The panel in the wall shuts as Doom walks in.

-Sue throwing a comforting Reed off takes the bomb and covers it in a perfect bubble and sphere that she lifts in the middle of the room. The whole FF looks worried....can she handle it? Can she handle the power? Then it goes off and the room lights up with fire and the sphere expands so far it is pushing them all to the walls, it looks as if they are about to be engulfed in flames, but in a burst of rage and determination Sue pushes the bubble closer together and contains the blast!

-They all take a breather and Reed and Sue rush to each other. As they embrace Johnny tales Ben to reopen that wall. Ben gladly smashes through. Only to fall down a poopchute if you will is the result. As he falls through the slide in the floor Johnny grits his teeth and jumps after him. Sue and Reed look at each other and nod and jump into the chute too.

-This takes them to an underground personal railway system that runs in the subway. There are two hyped up supercars. Dr. Doom is about to enter the first one. He looks back and sees The Thing land hard on the ground and then Johnny fall on top of him. Dr. Doom shakes his head mockingly and jumps into his train. Ben yells for Johnny to get off of him. They wait and moments later Reed and Sue get down there too. But Doom is seemingly already gone. Reed turns to Johnny and says "Give us some momentum." Reed and Sue begin piloting the other as Johnny gets behind the second train and flames on.

-The added strength and push of a flying Human Torch is enough. They catch up at a mad speed and begin ramming the other train, with Sue's forcefield. Reed and Ben nod, they know what they must do. They climb up the exit hatch on the roof of their car, and Sue lets the bubble or field rather up long enough for the two to make the jump. Doom hears them above him. He then hears on the other side a triumphant Ben Grimm go "Knock. Knock." And he (Dr. Doom) then sees The Thing's hand smash through the roof of his car. It is pulled off then and Reed spin stretches in as Ben jumps in. Doom throws some major gadget of some sort that is just an annoyance for Reed and Ben to destroy.

-At this moment Doom runs over to his "bomb" and pulls the pulling switch. "NOOOO!" Screams Reed as he jumps forward but a gust of powerful air and blast from an explosion force Reed to fly back with The Thing.

-The blast is so great it causes both train cars to derail. They collapse under heavy pressure and spin out of control. Reed and Thing are trapped under wreckage, but Thing pushes it off. They jump down and see Sue standing their, holding her arm...it is broken. They turn and hear a scream as Johnny in "flame on" explodes out of the wreckage screaming and hovering above. Johnny looks beyond them. They see a limping Doom scramble up the stairs of the local subway stop.

-They call chase him up. Doom finds himself in the middle of a street when a huge 8 foot ring of fire flames around him in a 15 foot range. Arg! There is Torch flying above the ring in the direction he is facing. Each direction Doom turns through the flames he sees another member of the Fantastic Four. He is trapped. The last member he sees is Mr. Fantastic. The Thing behind him says "C'mon doc...come out and play." Doom's eyes feel with hatred for Reed. He pulls out a zapper and fires and Reed expands easily dodging it. But in the same moment The Human Torch snaps his fingers and the ring of fire encloses and engulfs Doom. At the exact moment Reed yells "Johnny NOOOO!"

-We cut to the police there. Johnny is in handcuffs. Reed lectures him almost like a father figure about what he did was wrong, but they will be there for him, and no one will arrest him long term for the murder of Dr. Doom. Von Doom is dead. Yet then the detectives come and say "uncuff Storm."

-"What why?!" exclaims a bewildered Reed. "'Cause unless we hold charges for those who kill and murder robots, there won't be no point of him having 'em on 'ya know?" the detective bluntly replies. Reed runs to the dead body and now that the fire is cooled off he is nothing more than a charred metallic robot! The bomb was no dud, but a fake with a robot Doom inside all along! He played the world for fools on his videos!

-Cut to them being given gold chains and emblems by the mayor of New York City and thanked for their service. As we zoom away from Central City Hall we cut to a TV watching this in a dark storming gloomy and dreary castle throne chamber. A figure in a robe comes out washing his hair. The same man who had spoken so adimentally about killing Doom at the UN. The man who ordered the death of Victor Von Doom's parents. It is the dictator of Lavertia.

-The door creaks behind him and a beam of light shines through his dark shadowy throne room. He turns around and sees the sillouhette of none other than Dr. Doom. In this homage to the first Batman our dictator frantakly tries to welcome Mr. Doom. He walks to get a drink at his desk and reaches for a gun. Doom walks closer by the huge plasma TV saying "The news today...depressing....sickening." He then shoots two bullet holes into the TV.

-In fear the dictator turns around and says cut a deal or your military will kill you too! Doom says call them. He does on the intercom for help, they don't respond, they sound indifferent even.

-"Well funny thing is, you were so incompetent at the UN and I embrassed you and Lavertia...they think I can do a better job funny world ain't it?" Doom walks closer into the light holding out his gun. "Well since I've accomplished taking over the motherland of Lavertia, I guess I figure it is only appropriate that I do you in the old fashioned way...."You know the way you did my parents?" The Dictator scrambles towards Doom begging for mercy. Doom scoffs when the dictator said he did what he did for the interest of Lavertia. "Thank you for that explanaton" says Doom after shooting the man in the shoulder then in one leg and then the other with 5 second pauses. Then he stands up and we see the bullet fire at the camera and the screen light up.

-We cut to some cheesy ending of them standing in front of the Baxter building the 4 is revealed and Reed and Sue kiss after Reed shakes hands with a happy Ben with an arm around Alicia. You know, Hollywood ending. Then Johnny flies by.

The End.

[Herr Logan]

Your dialogue for Dr. Doom is just a casual translation for our benefit, right?

[RabbitSamurai]

I would much rather see a live-action Twisted Toyfare Theater Fantastic Four story (Dr. Doom as an obsessive incompetent, Reed Richards as an arrogant bastard, Sue as the town bicycle, the Thing as a raunchy jerk, H.E.R.B.I.E. as a sadistic sex offender, Franklin as a horrid brat) used as the official adaptation of the comic book than see whatever trashy revamp they're planning for this movie as far as CEO Doom goes. At least then it would be funny and intelligent, if not scatological and inappropriate for young-un's.

Yeah...Doom, at least, even though he was incompetent, wasn't some eurotrash businessman.
"Doom is...pleased. The coffers are full, and the junk is out of the rec room."

[Herr Logan]

TTT is the best thing Wizard magazine ever produced, and ToyFare is the only thing that still really good coming from Wizard now. I love that stuff.

[RabbitSamurai]

Hehehe...
I love how they write him:
"For the last time, you minimum wage lackey, Doom rides alone!"
"But...Doom OWNS the bank of Doom! The account CAN'T be empty!"
"...Cities shall crumble for this."
"Gravity...is...a cruel...mistress..."
"YOU'RE ON THE LIST, ARACHNID!!"
"Oh, no! Doom is not falling for THAT again! Doom will take what he can get!"
"Hmm....no...I don't see any pompous World War 2 "living legends" on the schedule..."
"Accursed safety bar! Doom sits trapped while total victory was in his grasp! CRAP!"

[Herr Logan]

Doom's stuff is almost always funny. "Twisted Toyfare Theater" is absolutely brilliant.

[RabbitSamurai]

Yeah...I can't wait to see what they do when the FF movie comes out...
"This is...Doom? DOOM IS NO INFERNAL BUSINESSMAN!!"

[Herr Logan]

Oh, I hope they tear that movie several new ones.

[RabbitSamurai]

"Sit down, Doom, my ultra-sexy Invisible wife can't see the movie."
-"CRETIN!! Doom sits for no man--!"
"You're just jealous because I'm getting it on with a woman I can't even see.
-"Then how do you know she's there, buffoon?"
"You...you're right! I've been played the whole time!"
-"Imbecile."

[NUFFSAID2004]

Yes, folks, the great Khan said words like those in that subliminal Trek sequel. Khan was a man of great power and intelligence, yet he was wounded and wanted revenge...what a great character he was; I dare say he was the best villain Star Trek ever knew.

Doom could be like that. The backstory of the Master's beloved Latveria could effectively be incorporated into this film, even if the only time we actually see that fair country is at the very end of the movie!

1. In only a few (but gripping) moments throughout the film, Doom is disturbed and vulnerable (and we all know that Doom hates being vulnerable-it only adds to his rage and determination). He is continually plagued by nightmares and visions of a moment from when he was a child, a moment when his entire family was executed before his eyes. He feels ashamed that he, the rightful heir of Latveria, fled in fear while a usurper stole the throne.

Doom is also angry. You see, the usurper (let's respect canon and call him Vladimir) was actually backed and given weapons by the United States and other Western nations. But now Vladimir rules Latveria under an iron fist worse than that of the Von Doom's, but of course Vladimir is still an ally of the West as they continually overlook his crimes against humanity for political/economical reasons (just like China's control of Tibet).

This enrages Doom...and gives him enough of an excuse to really hate the world. That hate serves as proper motivation for him to avenge himself and his dead loved ones upon all the world.

I'd like to see a scene where Sue tries to understand why Victor is so angry and he explains to her his family's tragedy. Hell, if they really want Sue to connect intimately with Victor and make us understand the guy, that's a fine moment to do it in! Then, to back that up, maybe Doom's claim to the Latverian throne could be quickly alluded to by a fast news clip or something.

2. Skip to the climax of the film:

The FF defeat Doom and his charred corpse is laying before them. But, guess what, when the authorities arrive to examine the body, they discover that it's a robot (or a dummy, whatever suits your taste)! Doom has escaped; he is still out there somewhere...

3. Skip to the very end of the film:

6 months later...

Sitting on this throne, King Vladimir is cowering in mortal terror. An invincible enemy has broken through his palace's defenses. A doorway blasts open. The king watches in horror as a dark, cloaked figure approaches him.

You know the rest...

No what kind of setup is that for a sequel?Aside from the fact that I still dislike the idea of Doom and Sue having a bond together (*why can't Ben be the original rival of Sue's affections??), you did mention some other very possitive ideas that could possibly help to save the proud name os "Doom" along with this awful movie. However, don't run out and try to copyright your ideas too soon. I very much doubt that the people behind this movie lack the intelligence nor integrity that you yourself display to ever try to incorporate your creative ideas. However, thanks for at least trying to keep a dream alive.:doom:

[homestarrunner]

i don't mind the bussiness man angle, just make sure fox makes him live up to his name,
IT'S DOCTOR DOOM NOT DOCTOR DOOLITTLE.

[homestarrunner]

" im doctor victor von doom, and i approve this thread.."

[DACrowe]

Yeah, I just write diologue, I think as Dr. Doom he should seem very intimidating in prescence, appeare3nce, tone, and actions. But I do think (though not B&R mind you) he should sound a little bit hoaky so it isn't too dark, and he is a 60's villain, I don't want Dr. Evil, but he should feel very Bond villain-ish as in OTT and 60's unrealistic meglomaniac, even if he is a "less talky" one. That would just work for Dr. Doom well. Not Victor Von Doom, but after he dawns the armor.

What'd you think of the overall story.

?

[Hawkman]

Give Victor an armor instead of organic skin (for us to have a great Doom rendition), and your idea, Sardaukar, could be easily incorporated in the Frost's script. Easily.

Doesn't Fox force these writers to read comic books before writing their script ? Why didn't Frost read Doom comics ? And if he did, why did he respect the FF and NOT Doom ?? Was it for the sake of messing with us ??? For insulting 40 years of comic book history ??

Fox and Arad most definitely have a vendetta against us Doom fans, no doubt about it. :mad:
Well, I know I've gotten the message. They're saying this movie isn't for me, and I have to agree, so I'll be seeing War of the Worlds, instead.

[RabbitSamurai]

Yeah, I just write diologue, I think as Dr. Doom he should seem very intimidating in prescence, appeare3nce, tone, and actions. But I do think (though not B&R mind you) he should sound a little bit hoaky so it isn't too dark, and he is a 60's villain, I don't want Dr. Evil, but he should feel very Bond villain-ish as in OTT and 60's unrealistic meglomaniac, even if he is a "less talky" one. That would just work for Dr. Doom well. Not Victor Von Doom, but after he dawns the armor.

What'd you think of the overall story.

?

Doom trying to get Sue to marry him? :down:
Doom killing Latveria's king to take over the throne? :up: (as long as they don't go with that dialogue)
Richard and Sue gettin' married at the end? :down:

Other than that...meh.

[Herr Logan]

What's the objection to Reed and Sue getting married at the end? Is it that you don't want to see it end with a wedding, or do you have a problem with Sue and Reed getting together or getting married in general?

I certainly hope it's the former, because there isn't a valid argument in existence against Sue and Reed getting together in a permanent way. It was inevitable from day one in the comics, and that's pretty much the most solid part of continuity, right up next to there having to be four people who get fantastic powers.

[Captain Walrus]

I would much rather see a live-action Twisted Toyfare Theater Fantastic Four story (Dr. Doom as an obsessive incompetent, Reed Richards as an arrogant bastard, Sue as the town bicycle, the Thing as a raunchy jerk, H.E.R.B.I.E. as a sadistic sex offender, Franklin as a horrid brat) used as the official adaptation of the comic book than see whatever trashy revamp they're planning for this movie as far as CEO Doom goes. At least then it would be funny and intelligent, if not scatological and inappropriate for young-un's.Wow. So....
Um...

Whoa.

Maybe you should just make your own movie, because, unfortunatly for you, Hollywood has to appeal to broad audiences in order to make money, and they cannot be as die hard on the comics as yourself. A CEO Doom isn't perfect, but it's not that bad.

[Trik]

after the way they've altered the char.
they may as well take it a few steps further.
have him prance around in a pink TuTu and speak with a really bad lisp.

[Captain Walrus]

after the way they've altered the char.
they may as well take it a few steps further.
have him prance around in a pink TuTu and speak with a really bad lisp.So it's all or nothing, eh?

MY DOOM HAS BEEN TAMPERED WITH! OMGWTF?! THIS MOVIE WILL BLOW.

[Rebel_Ace]

DC Comics BEST Hero meets Marvel Comics BEST Villian:
http://www.ncsoftware.com/images/vondoomsuperman.jpg

[Trik]

So it's all or nothing, eh?

well it's not doctor doom anymore.
its a pretender that the real doom would crush like an insect beneath a iron boot.

[Nero_Ordin]

great and hilarious pic rebel ace. pure genius unlike mark frost.

[Herr Logan]

Wow. So....
Um...

Whoa.

Maybe you should just make your own movie, because, unfortunatly for you, Hollywood has to appeal to broad audiences in order to make money, and they cannot be as die hard on the comics as yourself. A CEO Doom isn't perfect, but it's not that bad.

Why would you suggest such a thing? Do you automatically decide that you should take on a project your yourself that would cost millions of dollars when you notice something isn't being done satisfactorily? Ah, you don't have that problem, right? Obviously you must be employed by the companies involved in this movie and therefore directly benefit from them doing things the way they are, right? Otherwise, you couldn't possibly have a valid reason for throwing the same hollow, false, cliche, disrespectful excuses at me. Only peurile sheep believe that crap, and I can at least respect that an employee at Marvel Films has a duty to sell it, but I can't respect anyone who doesn't directly gain from buying into such nonsense.

Thank you, child, for proving once again you're not in any possible way a threat to my arguments.

[Docker2.0]

DC Comics BEST Hero meets Marvel Comics BEST Villian:
http://www.ncsoftware.com/images/vondoomsuperman.jpg
They met? Wow! Doom is smooth. What comic was this?

[Captain Walrus]

Why would you suggest such a thing? Do you automatically decide that you should take on a project your yourself that would cost millions of dollars when you notice something isn't being done satisfactorily?I guess I have to start using [sarcasm] tags.

Ah, you don't have that problem, right? Obviously you must be employed by the companies involved in this movie and therefore directly benefit from them doing things the way they are, right? Otherwise, you couldn't possibly have a valid reason for throwing the same hollow, false, cliche, disrespectful excuses at me. Only peurile sheep believe that crap, and I can at least respect that an employee at Marvel Films has a duty to sell it, but I can't respect anyone who doesn't directly gain from buying into such nonsense.What the f**k are you babbling about? You obviously have no grasp on reality. If you really want me to, I will explain capitalism to you and its effect on the movie industry.

Thank you, child, for proving once again you're not in any possible way a threat to my arguments.No one can threaten the arguements made by an illogical fanboy. At least, not in the mind of the fanboy.

[Herr Logan]

Goodness me, I've been labeled a "fanboy" on a site made for comic book superhero movies! How will I ever live down the shame?

Good work, plebeian, you're starting off like dozens of other newbies I've seen appear in recent months: spew a bunch of completely unoriginal and conformist tripe at people who expect better. I guess we can't all live down to the expectations of focus groups and greedy CEOs. Don't I feel awfully sad to be excluded from their perfect little demographics. Please, ask me again what I'm babbling about so I can be sure you can't comprehend what's in front of you, instead of simply making an educated guess.

[Captain Walrus]

Goodness me, I've been labeled a "fanboy" on a site made for comic book superhero movies! How will I ever live down the shame?Correction: I labeled you an illogical fanboy.

Good work, plebeian, you're starting off like dozens of other newbies I've seen appear in recent months: spew a bunch of completely unoriginal and conformist tripe at people who expect better. I guess we can't all live down to the expectations of focus groups and greedy CEOs. Don't I feel awfully sad to be excluded from their perfect little demographics. Oooooh 'plebeian', such a large vocabulary. Hmm, it sounds like you hate CEOs, is that why the change in Doom irritates you beyond comprehension? Please! No! NOT A NEWBIE...just like everyone else was at some point. And besides, I've visited this site many times before. It was this arguement that "Since Doom has been changed, the movie will blow" that made me join and respond.

Please, ask me again what I'm babbling about so I can be sure you can't comprehend what's in front of you, instead of simply making an educated guess.See, I like to give people a chance to clarify, unlike when you make an "educated guess" and completely misinterpret a post.


Now, let me simplify everything:
1) Doom's changes are not perfect and no one has to like them.
2) Doom's changes, however, do not necessarily change the core of his character.
3) A comic movie production involves reaching out to broad audiences, not just the comic fans.
4) This is not a comic on film, it is a comic adaptation.
5) The movie may blow, but I like to think they can pull it off. Like how the X-Men movies were very good.

[Herr Logan]

1) True.
2) False.
3) I'm supposed to do what exactly with this "information"? This is not only recycled, brainwashed, PR-distributed bull*****, it's completely irrelevent to this thread.
4) Try using your brain, not the copy/paste function of your computer. See above.
5) Irrelevant.

[RabbitSamurai]

To Cap'n Walrus:
You're calling the guy with 4,367 more posts than you a newbie? That's an interesting way of doing math.

And what do you mean, they don't change the core of his character? He goes from ruler of a small but nuclear-capable country that still goes by the monarchy system to a CEO. Like Norman Osborn, except Willem Dafoe was cool in that movie.
And a comic adaptation IS a comic on film...maybe not holding up the pages to the camera and flipping through them, but certainly faithfulness to the source material would have been appreciated. (For example: Spider-Man. Very faithful to the source with some "modernizing" changes: breaks box ofice records within its opening week and re-introduces the world to the coolness of Spidey. Catwoman: bastardizes everything about the central character and scores the sum total of $17 million in its opening weekend, and adds another notch on the list of WB's blunders.)
And before you answer, making Doom a CEO isn't a "modernizing" change. A modernizing change is taking a radioactive spider and altering it to a genetically engineered spider to better suit the times. Since we now know radioactive spiders won't do much more than give you radiation poisoning, "genetically engineered" fits the bill. Doom functioned as a monarch IN MODERN TIMES. He was a great character because he operated in a throwback environment while operating with technology and science (and magic) ahead of his time. Making him a CEO actually downgrades him, and therefore isn't "modernizing" at all.
Just so ya know.

[RabbitSamurai]

They met? Wow! Doom is smooth. What comic was this?

He says something a WEE bit different in the actual book...but yeah, Doom pretty much blackmails Supes.

[Herr Logan]

To Cap'n Walrus:
You're calling the guy with 4,367 more posts than you a newbie? That's an interesting way of doing math.

And what do you mean, they don't change the core of his character? He goes from ruler of a small but nuclear-capable country that still goes by the monarchy system to a CEO. Like Norman Osborn, except Willem Dafoe was cool in that movie.
And a comic adaptation IS a comic on film...maybe not holding up the pages to the camera and flipping through them, but certainly faithfulness to the source material would have been appreciated. (For example: Spider-Man. Very faithful to the source with some "modernizing" changes: breaks box ofice records within its opening week and re-introduces the world to the coolness of Spidey. Catwoman: bastardizes everything about the central character and scores the sum total of $17 million in its opening weekend, and adds another notch on the list of WB's blunders.)
And before you answer, making Doom a CEO isn't a "modernizing" change. A modernizing change is taking a radioactive spider and altering it to a genetically engineered spider to better suit the times. Since we now know radioactive spiders won't do much more than give you radiation poisoning, "genetically engineered" fits the bill. Doom functioned as a monarch IN MODERN TIMES. He was a great character because he operated in a throwback environment while operating with technology and science (and magic) ahead of his time. Making him a CEO actually downgrades him, and therefore isn't "modernizing" at all.
Just so ya know.

I feel that "Spider-Man" was a drastic artistic failure when it came to translating the character-- not cosmetically, but writing-wise. Also, I don't think for one second that a genetically altered spider passing on its traits though a bite is any more believable than a radioactive spider. The best thing would have been a genetically engineered spider that got irradiated.

You mentioned Norman Osborn. I'd like to use him as a partial example of a change that could either be considered positive or neutral. Norman Osborn was the president or co-president of his chemical company in the comics. After he got rid of his partner, Mendell Stromm, Osborn took a performance enhancing formula that made him smarter and stronger, and he used mechanical ingenuity and chemical aptitude to fight Spider-Man. The big difference here is that Norman Osborn is an actual scientist and is making these items for the military, which I believe adds an acceptable amount of realism and relevance and does not betray the original character. Instead of a guy who ran only the business end of things getting smarter and using chemistry to make himself formidable, he started out as a scientist. His status isn't changed drastically by this change. I can't see how it might matter to the "general audience" whether or not Osborn was just the businessman or a scientist businessman, but it doesn't hurt anything and it may-- subjectively speaking-- enhance it. Keep in mind, I'm not saying the whole character of the Green Goblin was done well in the movie, but I feel this aspect was.

[RabbitSamurai]

I feel that "Spider-Man" was a drastic artistic failure when it came to translating the character-- not cosmetically, but writing-wise. Also, I don't think for one second that a genetically altered spider passing on its traits though a bite is any more believable than a radioactive spider. The best thing would have been a genetically engineered spider that got irradiated.

You mentioned Norman Osborn. I'd like to use him as a partial example of a change that could either be considered positive or neutral. Norman Osborn was the president or co-president of his chemical company in the comics. After he got rid of his partner, Mendell Stromm, Osborn took a performance enhancing formula that made him smarter and stronger, and he used mechanical ingenuity and chemical aptitude to fight Spider-Man. The big difference here is that Norman Osborn is an actual scientist and is making these items for the military, which I believe adds an acceptable amount of realism and relevance and does not betray the original character. Instead of a guy who ran only the business end of things getting smarter and using chemistry to make himself formidable, he started out as a scientist. His status isn't changed drastically by this change. I can't see how it might matter to the "general audience" whether or not Osborn was just the businessman or a scientist businessman, but it doesn't hurt anything and it may-- subjectively speaking-- enhance it. Keep in mind, I'm not saying the whole character of the Green Goblin was done well in the movie, but I feel this aspect was.

I wasn't going for believability here (since the entire premise is unbelievable), but more which sounds the most pseudo-scientific (and therefore vague)? Radiation is out. Genetic alteration was in. BING! Change made. But a GOOD change, IMO.

Agree with you about Osborn, though. And surely we both agree on CAtwoman, for God's sake...

[Herr Logan]

Oh, I didn't see "Catwoman," but I think I can rest assured it was the paragon to which all disrespectful, talentless, pretentious, unworthy filmmakers aspire.

[Sardaukar]

Spidey 1 only had one big flaw, and the Green Goblin armor was it.

[Herr Logan]

It would take me too long to refute that statement properly, so let's just assume I'm right.

[RabbitSamurai]

You're not one of those "man-spider" people, are you?

[Herr Logan]

No, I'm not. Mr Parker (one of the two with which I'm familiar) approached me about joining them and I said "no." I've done plenty of lengthy analyses of the entire movie, whereas those idiots just harp on the same singular flaw over and over again for years. I'm absoluely opposed to the organic web-shooters, but that's just one failure on a much larger pile. I know what I'm talking about and have researched the character. Anyone who doesn't take the time to actually take an inventory of Spider-Man's essential elements and honestly examine which did and did not make it into the movie isn't fit to debate this with me, and that includes people who've got nothing more to say than "he's got organic web-shooters, so he's a Man-Spider" for two years straight. Like I said, it would take a hell of a lot of time to earnestly and accurately cover all the flaws of the movie, and I'm not going to waste my time going all-out unless I know I'm only dealing with someone who's receptive to it and doesn't subscribe to plebeian mentalties the likes of which Captain Walrus and his ilk display.

[RabbitSamurai]

No, I'm not. Mr Parker (one of the two with which I'm familiar) approached me about joining them and I said "no." I've done plenty of lengthy analyses of the entire movie, whereas those idiots just harp on the same singular flaw over and over again for years. I'm absoluely opposed to the organic web-shooters, but that's just one failure on a much larger pile. I know what I'm talking about and have researched the character. Anyone who doesn't take the time to actually take an inventory of Spider-Man's essential elements and honestly examine which did and did not make it into the movie isn't fit to debate this with me, and that includes people who've got nothing more to say than "he's got organic web-shooters, so he's a Man-Spider" for two years straight. Like I said, it would take a hell of a lot of time to earnestly and accurately cover all the flaws of the movie, and I'm not going to waste my time going all-out unless I know I'm only dealing with someone who's receptive to it and doesn't subscribe to plebeian mentalties the likes of which Captain Walrus and his ilk display.

Well, thank you. Nice to know you operate on more cerebral terms then those guys. WE can,a t least, agree to disagree about the movie civilly without having a whole bunch of "No, YOU'RE a moron!!!" posts. Hats off to you, Logan.

[Herr Logan]

Well, thank you. Nice to know you operate on more cerebral terms then those guys. WE can,a t least, agree to disagree about the movie civilly without having a whole bunch of "No, YOU'RE a moron!!!" posts. Hats off to you, Logan.

Got your hat! *runs away giggling*

No one accuses me of being civil! No one!!

;) :up:

[RabbitSamurai]

BAH!
;)
I'll just whip it out of your hand whenever I feel like it, so no harm done.

[Herr Logan]

:(

Bah! I hate wasted labors!

[RabbitSamurai]

:(

Bah! I hate wasted labors!

Hehehe...Oncea gain, Herr Logan, we see there is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away.

[Herr Logan]

You can't take the last word!

[RabbitSamurai]

Pfft. Sure I can.

[Herr Logan]

This was posted in a different thread regarding Doom. I don't know if it was posted here, but this is a pretty good overview of who and what Dr. Doom is and should be in a movie: A glimpse behind the iron mask of Doom. (http://www.411mania.com/comics/columns/article.php?columns_id=2337)

[TheSaintofKillers]

This was posted in a different thread regarding Doom. I don't know if it was posted here, but this is a pretty good overview of who and what Dr. Doom is and should be in a movie: A glimpse behind the iron mask of Doom. (http://www.411mania.com/comics/columns/article.php?columns_id=2337)

Wow, greatest thing I read this whole week. Heck, greatest doom thesis I've ever read. :eek:

And btw, I agree with most of this guy's points! :up:

[Darko]

DC Comics BEST Hero meets Marvel Comics BEST Villian:
http://www.ncsoftware.com/images/vondoomsuperman.jpg


Touche. What was the orginal line??

[Herr Logan]

Wow, greatest thing I read this whole week. Heck, greatest doom thesis I've ever read. :eek:

And btw, I agree with most of this guy's points! :up:

Yeah, me too. It realy puts it into perspective, just how much freedom truly matters to us, regardless of the rhetoric we hear and spew every day. Our government fails us in almost every way that is important, yet we are free (supposedly, and for God knows how much longer) to speak out against them, but Dr. Doom delivers the goods and does not allow dissention. I think it's at least the kind of trade people should consider. One of my biggest [rational] fear is violent crime fear my loved ones will be victimized or I will be victimized and no longer be able to protect those I love. If we lived in Doom's society, I'd have much less to fear in terms of crime. As long as there was good education, health care, protection and I could play video games, hell, why not accept a dictator that doesn't claim he's a leader of freedom over one that puts on a disguise?

[Captain Walrus]

To Cap'n Walrus:
You're calling the guy with 4,367 more posts than you a newbie? That's an interesting way of doing math.I was not calling him a newbie.

What I said was refering to the fact that when he called me a newbie, and it didn't affect me.

[RabbitSamurai]

Touche. What was the orginal line??

Something like, "I am the sole monarch of this country and therefore its ruler. Don't you uphold the laws of men?"

And yes, Cap'n Walrus, a careful re-reading actually provs you were right. Sorry for the misinterpretation. *bows apologetically*

[Herr Logan]

I was not calling him a newbie.

What I said was refering to the fact that when he called me a newbie, and it didn't affect me.

It's absolutely true that plenty of people who were hear before me and shortly after me have the same small-minded views as you, but there's been a recent rush of new members, and most of them have essentially the same position: everything the studios do is great and people should just shut up. Man, just when you think you can use this stuff to escape politics, you find a great, grisly chunk of the relevent population holds the exact same attitudes toward irreverent movie studios as they do towards corrupt government: don't ask questions, don't speak ill, eat what's on your plate, do what you're told.

You're free to be as shallow, complacent and tractable a sheep as you want, but I'd rather use my intellect, my imagination and the knowledge I've accumulated over the years to come to a far more educated conclusion than a person who's surrendered his will and/or ability to think for himself. That's okay with you, right?

[ViscaBarcaInter]

Something like, "I am the sole monarch of this country and therefore its ruler. Don't you uphold the laws of men?"

And yes, Cap'n Walrus, a careful re-reading actually provs you were right. Sorry for the misinterpretation. *bows apologetically*

The exact line is :"Bah! I am standing on Latverian soil! Here, I am the LAW, Alien! Are you not sworn to uphold the laws of Men?"

Yes, I have that comic. Watching Doom HAND SUPERMAN HIS ASS was beyond awesome.

[Sardaukar]

The exact line is :"Bah! I am standing on Latverian soil! Here, I am the LAW, Alien! Are you not sworn to uphold the laws of Men?"

Yes, I have that comic. Watching Doom HAND SUPERMAN HIS ASS was beyond awesome.

Doom rules.

Supes was owned.

[TheSaintofKillers]

Doom rules.

Supes was owned.

As it should be. :p

[RabbitSamurai]

The exact line is :"Bah! I am standing on Latverian soil! Here, I am the LAW, Alien! Are you not sworn to uphold the laws of Men?"

Yes, I have that comic. Watching Doom HAND SUPERMAN HIS ASS was beyond awesome.

W/o kryptonite no less. :up:

[Sardaukar]

A brief history of...DOOM.

Courtesy of http://www.fact-index.com/d/do/doctor_doom.html

I've taken the liberty of bolding some of the parts I find distinguishes Doom from your average villain.

Doctor Doom
Doctor Doom (real name: Victor von Doom) is a fictional supervillain from Marvel Comics' shared comic book continuity, who first appeared in Fantastic Four #5 in 1962 by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. He is the monarch of the country of Latveria, a small fictional eastern European country, where he is feared by the populace but also deeply respected as the source of their nation's strength and prosperity.
Although Von Doom has significant scientific knowledge and ability, he lacks an advanced university degree. Von Doom apparently likes the sound of "Doctor Doom" and as the absolute ruler of a country he simply started calling himself that.

Victor was born to Werner von Doom, a noted gypsy healer and Cynthia von Doom, who was said to be a witch. His mother was killed when Victor was an infant. She had attempted to gain power to protect her gypsy tribe from persecution by the reigning authorities of Latveria. Unfortunately she bargained with the demon Mephisto for power, and as is so often the case when dealing with demons, she was betrayed and killed. Later, Victor's father was hunted by the authorities for his failure to cure a Latverian baron's wife of terminal cancer. Werner von Doom died from exposure whilst fleeing and the young Victor von Doom was placed in the care of the remaining gypsy tribe. Victor vowed to make the entire world pay for his loss of his parents.

While a child, he discovered his mother's magical artifacts and von Doom began his studies into the occult as well as developing his innate scientific abilities. His astounding reputation came to the attention of the dean of science at State University in America and von Doom was offered a full scholarship. At State, von Doom first met both Reed Richards and Ben Grimm, two men who would go on to become his enemies in later years. Richards, in particular, represented a substantial threat to Doom's self-perceived superiority. Doom began conducting hazardous extra-dimensional experiments.

The focus of Doom's research was to construct a trans-dimensional projection device with which he could communicate with his dead mother. There was a flaw in the design which Richards pointed out to him, but Doom's pride prevented him from accepting Richards' advice and fixing the device before testing it. The machine worked perfectly for two minutes and 37 seconds, in which time Doom discovered that his mother was trapped in a hell. Then the device exploded, permanently scarring his face. Doom refused to acknowledge his own fault in the matter and blamed Richards for the accident, finding it easier to believe that Richards had sabotaged his work out of jealousy than admit to his own imperfection.

Doom was expelled from school afterward, and traveled the world searching for a cure for his scarred face. In truth the scarring was not particularly bad, but Doom was overly sensitive about it as a symbol of his failure.Eventually Doom discovered a village of Tibetan monks whom he lived among for a number of years. They assisted him in crafting a suit of body armor that concealed his deformity, but also seriously aggravated it when he ordered the mask be put on before it had sufficiently cooled, resulting in severe facial burns. His suit would become his trademark, and thanks to his technological enhancements puts him on par in terms of personal power with most superheroes in the Marvel universe. He then returned to his homeland, overthrew the standing government, and crowned himself king. Ruling with an iron fist and an equally strong will, Doom began to redirect the small nation's resources to help him realize his goals.

Although Doom has some native sorcerous ability, his real power lies in his genius level intelligence and his brilliant mechanical designs. He has constructed a time machine, something beyond the capabilities of his arch-rival Reed Richards. His surrogate "Doombots" are so like him few people can tell them apart from him. His nuclear-powered armor is capable of generating a force field only psionics can penetrate, as well as strong blasts of energy he shoots from his armored hands. Doom has also developed the ability to transfer his consciousness into another nearby human being, a process which he learnt from the alien Ovoids.

Doctor Doom was driven by three principal objectives: the destruction of Reed Richards, world domination, and the liberation of his mother's soul from the demon Mephisto's realm. He has so far achieved two of these aims. With the help of Doctor Strange, Master of the Mystic Arts and Earth's Sorcerer Supreme, he wrested his mother's spirit from Mephisto's grasp; a vital step in this process turned out to be tricking his mother into renouncing her love for Victor, and though it was difficult for him he was able to make that necessary sacrifice.

He has also achieved world domination several times. When the world's mightiest heroes returned from the alternate Earth to which they had been shunted following their confrontation with the sentient psionic being Onslaught, Doctor Doom remained behind and conquered that planet, which he dubbed "Planet Doom." He was by most accounts an very good ruler, leading Planet Doom into a period of unparalleled prosperity. He eventually abdicated as ruler of Planet Doom and returned to Earth, finding the task of world domination to be tedious once it had finally been achieved. Later, in a short-lived but canonical series of comics set in the year 2099, Doctor Doom was transported to that time from some point in our current near future and upon seeing the decrepit state of Latveria he becomes the president of the United States in order to curb the power of the megacorporations based there that were opressing his people. As a side effect he begins improving the quality of life in the United States as well, reinstituting democracy and an effective non-corrupt police force.

Despite repeated attempts through the years, Doom has been unable to completely defeat Mister Fantastic. He has also been physically humiliated by the Thing and Doom has vowed to take revenge on both men. He has come close on several occasions, however he has failed to win a decisive battle.

Doctor Doom's plans are fueled by his ego and his conviction that he is not only capable of world domination, but also worthy and deserving of it. While he is utterly heartless and places little value on the lives of others, he also follows a strict code of honor. Several times he has struck bargains with various characters in the Marvel Universe, and he has always upheld those bargains, honoring his word and following through with his promises to the letter. He is a cruel and ruthless dictator; yet while he rules his nation of Latveria with an iron hand and is willing to deliver swift and cruel punishments, he also treats his subjects fairly (as long as they acknowledge his absolute rule). This complexity has made him one of the more interesting characters in the Marvel Universe.

Even though the Fantastic Four consider Doom to be their villain, Doom actually pops up all over the Marvel Universe, casually stomping on anyone who gets in his way. He has faced the Avengers numerous times. Individual heroes like Spider-Man, Iron Man and Dazzler have become embroiled in his schemes. It's hard to avoid Doom if you have super-powers; he's always trying to find a way to use those powers for himself. He even was able to steal the power of Galactus and the Beyonder.

[RabbitSamurai]

All Hail Von Doom!

...forever. Or you'll pretty much die.

[Cool_Jerk]

Dr. Doom is my personal lord and master. And my name isn't Boris.

Good find, Sardaukar. This should help to clear up any perceptions of the character, and reaffirm that (so far as we can tell) the movie version has a LOT to live up to.

[RabbitSamurai]

Dr. Doom is my personal lord and master. And my name isn't Boris.

Good find, Sardaukar. This should help to clear up any perceptions of the character, and reaffirm that (so far as we can tell) the movie version has a LOT to live up to.


"My name's Boris. Boris Gump." ;)

Yeah, unfortunately, this eloquent treatise on the greatest villian of all time, bar none widens the potential gap between the two Dooms...

[Herr Logan]

We shall remember the one true Victor Von Doom in all his Silver Age glory!

[DACrowe]

Oh how did you like my overall story?

[Herr Logan]

I done told ye, I liked it very well.

[Kurosawa]

And that's the character that's not "good enough" for their stupid movie.

Idiots.

[Trik]

And that's the character that's not "good enough" for their stupid movie.

Yep.

Quite possibly the best villain ever created.
So much depth to draw upon.

[RabbitSamurai]

Yep.

Quite possibly the best villain ever created.
So much depth to draw upon.

Wait a minute...they said Von doom wasn't "good enough" for this movie? I hope Spider-Man drops a train on their heads. On accident, of course.

[Herr Logan]

Make it the Hulk. He might have a legal excuse, if not a moral one.

[RabbitSamurai]

Make it the Hulk. He might have a legal excuse, if not a moral one.

She-Hulk would be able to determine that...;)

[Nero_Ordin]

what if wolverine went beserk by accident so dropping a train isn't neccessary.

[Herr Logan]

Then Wolverine would mope around for about 10 or 12 issues, inwardly self-flagellating for his loss of control and bestial actions. I'd prefer if the Hulk did it, since I don't read Hulk.

[Kurosawa]

Wait a minute...they said Von doom wasn't "good enough" for this movie? I hope Spider-Man drops a train on their heads. On accident, of course.

They never said it. Instead, they've shown it by getting rid of all aspects of his character except for the name and a probable physical resemblence.

Everytrhing else about Doom from the comics they've discarded.

[RabbitSamurai]

That's...that's just great. Freaking execs.

[Pyromania]

When I was reading the script, Doom strongly reminded me of the villian from A View to A Kill. They are both evil businessmen which their one-time girlfriends end up fighting against, they are both hinted to be European, and they both have super-strength. Of course, this may just be my paranoia meter running on a all-time high.

[Sardaukar]

The Doom character is more important in FF lore than the Human Torch.

Defend or deny this statement.

[spiderwyze]

The Doom character is more important in FF lore than the Human Torch.

Defend or deny this statement.

I deny it on the basis that a Fantastic Four story can do without Victor Von Doom more effectively than it can do without Johnny Storm.

While it's true that at one point or another each of the original Fantastic Four members has been replaced (and Doom himself once counted himself on the long list of replacements), none of the replacements has ever been permanent. The roster has also reverted to the original four members; Reed Richards, Susan Storm, Benjamin Grimm, and Johnny Storm. The F4 is one of the few superhero teams in comics that hasn't worked as well without the original roster intact, because they are all tightly-knit characters with a shared origin.

Most view Johnny as the juvenile member of the group, and therefore unnecessary. After all, he's not the only funny member of the group; Ben and Sue are just as capable of humor (even Reed is capable of it, in his own subtle way). However, he serves as a direct counterpoint to Reed Richards, the most seemingly staid and mature of the Four. As Mark Waid pointed out, while Reed serves as the superego of their group-mind (keeping everything else in check), Johnny embodies the impulsive id. While Sue is Reed's emotional counterpoint and Ben plays the brawn to Reed's brains, Johnny's impulsive, risk-taking nature is a sharp contrast to Richards' need to ensure the safety of his teammates. Again, citing Waid, while the Avengers' battle cry is something uplifting like "Avengers Assemble", the Fantastic Four's time honored exclamation is, "Johnny, WAIT!"

Yes, I'm well aware of "It's Clobberin' Time", but that one is exclusively Ben's domain.

Doom is the archenemy of the entire team, but most notably of Reed Richards. After all, Von Doom's hatred for Reed had begun in college out of misplaced anger. However, Doom is more Reed's rival than his counterpoint. Their mastery of the sciences are only rivaled by each other, and in terms of what they bring to a team, they are more alike than they are different. Consequently, they butt heads in a way that's entirely different from the way Johnny and Reed clash. Johnny and Reed just don't relate to each other much, but they trust each other implicitly.

I think Johnny's contribution to the team is actually underrated. He's the first one to drain the seriousness out of a situation when everything's become too angsty. And his enthusiasm is a lot of fun to watch. The way he interacts with his teammates is great fun as well; Doom, on the other hand, drives everyone way.

I'm not at any point saying Doom isn't an important character, but in terms of importance to the Fantastic Four, he contributes far less than Johnny Storm in terms of what the team is about.


I get the feeling I'm going to be drawn and quartered for this.

[Pyromania]

I absolutly agree. The FF without Doom is still the FF, but without the Torch it becomes something totally different.

[Herr Logan]

I deny it on the basis that a Fantastic Four story can do without Victor Von Doom more effectively than it can do without Johnny Storm.

While it's true that at one point or another each of the original Fantastic Four members has been replaced (and Doom himself once counted himself on the long list of replacements), none of the replacements has ever been permanent. The roster has also reverted to the original four members; Reed Richards, Susan Storm, Benjamin Grimm, and Johnny Storm. The F4 is one of the few superhero teams in comics that hasn't worked as well without the original roster intact, because they are all tightly-knit characters with a shared origin.

Most view Johnny as the juvenile member of the group, and therefore unnecessary. After all, he's not the only funny member of the group; Ben and Sue are just as capable of humor (even Reed is capable of it, in his own subtle way). However, he serves as a direct counterpoint to Reed Richards, the most seemingly staid and mature of the Four. As Mark Waid pointed out, while Reed serves as the superego of their group-mind (keeping everything else in check), Johnny embodies the impulsive id. While Sue is Reed's emotional counterpoint and Ben plays the brawn to Reed's brains, Johnny's impulsive, risk-taking nature is a sharp contrast to Richards' need to ensure the safety of his teammates. Again, citing Waid, while the Avengers' battle cry is something uplifting like "Avengers Assemble", the Fantastic Four's time honored exclamation is, "Johnny, WAIT!"

Yes, I'm well aware of "It's Clobberin' Time", but that one is exclusively Ben's domain.

Doom is the archenemy of the entire team, but most notably of Reed Richards. After all, Von Doom's hatred for Reed had begun in college out of misplaced anger. However, Doom is more Reed's rival than his counterpoint. Their mastery of the sciences are only rivaled by each other, and in terms of what they bring to a team, they are more alike than they are different. Consequently, they butt heads in a way that's entirely different from the way Johnny and Reed clash. Johnny and Reed just don't relate to each other much, but they trust each other implicitly.

I think Johnny's contribution to the team is actually underrated. He's the first one to drain the seriousness out of a situation when everything's become too angsty. And his enthusiasm is a lot of fun to watch. The way he interacts with his teammates is great fun as well; Doom, on the other hand, drives everyone way.

I'm not at any point saying Doom isn't an important character, but in terms of importance to the Fantastic Four, he contributes far less than Johnny Storm in terms of what the team is about.


I get the feeling I'm going to be drawn and quartered for this.

That was intelligent and well-researched.

It does not, however, in any way, shape, or form indicate that it's acceptable to change Doom's character the way we know he is going to be changed. Either they know how to portray all the principal characters correctly or they don't. It's just that simple.

[RabbitSamurai]

That was intelligent and well-researched.

It does not, however, in any way, shape, or form indicate that it's acceptable to change Doom's character the way we know he is going to be changed. Either they know how to portray all the principal characters correctly or they don't. It's just that simple.

...or that they're choosing to portray some of the characters correctly and one not. Why, you ask? Because execs and fans are like opposite sides of a coin: we never see eye-to-eye. Execs think that a modern-day monarch in a small but nuclear-capable country is "unrealistic." Fans remember that superhero comics in the first place are "unrealisitic," and can therefore suspend disbelief.

[Sardaukar]

Execs think that a modern-day monarch in a small but nuclear-capable country is "unrealistic."
That makes no sense.

[RabbitSamurai]

That makes no sense.

What I said, or what they think? Look at Saddam Hussein for a better example of how "unrealistic" Doom's premise is. Granted, Doom's a lot more magnificent than Saddam....

[Sardaukar]

What I said, or what they think? Look at Saddam Hussein for a better example of how "unrealistic" Doom's premise is. Granted, Doom's a lot more magnificent than Saddam....I agree with you.

Plus, you just have to look at the recent strife in Serbia and Croatia to justify the possiblity of a dictator popping up in Eastern Europe somewhere.

In fact, Latveria actually borders Serbia in the Marvel Universe. It would be plausible for a country like Serbia to take over a small country like Latveria (like China did Tibet) and piss off Doom in a major way.

[RabbitSamurai]

I agree with you.

Plus, you just have to look at the recent strife in Serbia and Croatia to justify the possiblity of a dictator popping up in Eastern Europe somewhere.

In fact, Latveria actually borders Serbia in the Marvel Universe. It would be plausible for a country like Serbia to take over a small country like Latveria (like China did Tibet) and piss of Doom in a major way.

Which makes Marvel's boneheaded executives even less excuse handy.

Idiots.

BTW, did you ever read the short Spidey novel "Global War?" Doom is involved in that (sort of).

[Sardaukar]

Which makes Marvel's boneheaded executives even less excuse handy.

Idiots.

BTW, did you ever read the short Spidey novel "Global War?" Doom is involved in that (sort of).
Nope.

[RabbitSamurai]

Nope.

Ah, well....

Yeah, thanks a lot, Marvel. You really screwed up this time. :mad:

[Sardaukar]

Ah, well....

Yeah, thanks a lot, Marvel. You really screwed up this time. :mad:My question: Did they honestly believe they could make such drastic changes to Doom without upsetting the fans?

That's why something tells me that Avi Arad and the people at FOX have absolutely no real clue as to why Doom is so popular.

To them, he's just another simple-minded villain, lacking in much complexity.

It's like they didn't do any research or bother asking anybody who knows.

Or maybe the people at Marvel who do know are too afraid to speak up.

[RabbitSamurai]

My question: Did they honestly believe they could make such drastic changes to Doom without upsetting the fans?

That's why something tells me that Avi Arad and the people at FOX have absolutely no real clue as to why Doom is so popular.

To them, he's just another simple-minded villain, lacking in much complexity.

It's like they didn't do any research or bother asking anybody who knows.

Or maybe the people at Marvel who do know are too afraid to speak up.

That's still BS on their part. It indicates they neither cared or had the enrgy to make the fans happy. And if Avi Arad doesn't like Doom so much, why is he producing this movie with all these changes? Doom's an integral part of the FF.

And I think they thought as much about this as the people at WB who produced CINO thought about that.

[spiderwyze]

That was intelligent and well-researched.

It does not, however, in any way, shape, or form indicate that it's acceptable to change Doom's character the way we know he is going to be changed. Either they know how to portray all the principal characters correctly or they don't. It's just that simple.

That wasn't the question you asked.

[RabbitSamurai]

OK, then.

[Herr Logan]

That wasn't the question you asked.

I didn't ask that question. My assertion is that it's unexcusable to use a pathetic imitation of Dr. Doom instead of the real deal, which is what they are doing. If you aren't trying to defend the decisions made behind this movie, then I apologize for drawing a false connection. If you are defending the decision, I don't think I have to repeat myself and tell you what I think of you and your kind.

[Sardaukar]

What bothers me most is that they're exploiting Doom's name, a name who many have come to respect from years of great stories and character moments.

And they're just doing it to make profit off their little film.

But they're not paying the character, or his fans, any respect whatsoever.

It's also deceptive and a kick in the teeth for all faithful FF fans.

[Nero_Ordin]

they are ruining the greatest villian ever.

[spiderwyze]

I didn't ask that question.

*smacks forehead* Oh, right. Sorry about that. I've had a long day today.

My assertion is that it's unexcusable to use a pathetic imitation of Dr. Doom instead of the real deal, which is what they are doing. If you aren't trying to defend the decisions made behind this movie, then I apologize for drawing a false connection. If you are defending the decision, I don't think I have to repeat myself and tell you what I think of you and your kind.

Okay... what? "My kind?" At no point have I ever defended the decision to drastically alter Victor Von Doom's origin; I've actually been fairly quiet on the subject. The mini-essay I posted about about Johnny's value vs. Doom's value to the Fantastic Four certainly didn't make any mention of it. All I did was answer Sard's "defend or deny" challenge to the best of my ability, and that topic had nothing to do with Doom's portrayal in the movie ... or at least, I didn't interpret it that way.

So, you want to know how I feel about what's being done to Doom in the movie? You want to know what "my kind" is? I'd be more than willing to tell you, but be warned that it'd be a very long reply.

[Herr Logan]

Well, then you don't belong to "that kind." Good to know. I apologize for drawing a false connection.

[Ratcrawler]

Well, then you don't belong to "that kind." Good to know. I apologize for drawing a false connection.


I don't think he ever actually said he didn't...

[spiderwyze]

Because I still have no clue what "that kind" is.

[Herr Logan]

I don't think he ever actually said he didn't...

Innocent until proven guilty. If he wants to admit he's a disloyal, complacent, studio apologist, that's up to him. Until he does, this is no longer my concern.

[RabbitSamurai]

Because I still have no clue what "that kind" is.

"That kind" being, I'm assuming, a corporate sell-out who is perfectly agreeable to drag good artistry through the mud to make a couple bucks.

That said, let's go see Catwoman. ;)

[spiderwyze]

Innocent until proven guilty. If he wants to admit he's a disloyal, complacent, studio apologist, that's up to him. Until he does, this is no longer my concern.

Disloyal? Nope. Still a loud & proud Fantastic Four fan. (Though the question must be asked: disloyal to whom?)

Complacent? Hell naw. If anything, I get irritated when my favorite characters are allowed to stagnate creatively. This applies to Doom as well, because he's a lot more interesting to watch when he moves forward as a character than when he does the same old thing in story after story, decade after decade.

Studio apologist? That'd be a no as well. I don't even know anybody in a studio setting, so it's not like I'll be receiving any kickbacks any time soon. I find quite a bit of the decisions made by studio execs to be rather absurd, as it's easy to miss the point of a character when the primary concerns are a monetray bottom line and appeasing other people in a business setting. I understand in some cases why such decisions are made, but regardless of intentions, they're still bad decisions. And by "decisions", I mean things like making Victor Von Doom into a businessman and Catwoman into someone other than Selina Kyle.

Anything else?

[Kurosawa]

Those are decisions that they'll definately regret. They need to make the movie with at least an attempt to get it right instead of trying for the bottom line with every Hollywood cliché they can throw into it.

[Sardaukar]

It's a shame, really.

Doom could have been one of the greater villains in movie history, if he had been given a chance.

There's nobody quite like him.

Even Vader wasn't as arrogant, honorable, or intelligent as Doom.

What made Vader similar to Doom was his mask and his sense of menace, not much else.

[RabbitSamurai]

Interestingly, Doom had a "dinner" scene like in ESB a couple years before the movie, in a very similar situation. Hmmm....

But yeah, Doom could have topped the charts. Thanks a lot, Avi. :mad:

[Herr Logan]

Vader served a higher cause and a master. Doom don't play that. Ever.

Vader was Luke Skywalker's daddy. Doom is everybody's daddy, as in "who is your..."

[Nero_Ordin]

so since the pic of victor von doom says dr before it does that mean they made changes or what?

[RabbitSamurai]

Maybe....but I kinda doubt it.

[Guy at work]

It's a shame, really.

Doom could have been one of the greater villains in movie history, if he had been given a chance.

There's nobody quite like him.

Even Vader wasn't as arrogant, honorable, or intelligent as Doom.

What made Vader similar to Doom was his mask and his sense of menace, not much else.Dude, the movie is not even out yet, and you've already decided that Doom is a failure. Talk about jumping the gun.

[Nero_Ordin]

vader is great villian but nothing compared to doom. if doom was written close to how he is in the comics he be one of the best villians to be in any movie.

[Sardaukar]

Dude, the movie is not even out yet, and you've already decided that Doom is a failure. Talk about jumping the gun.
We already know that Doom's got metal armor that grows on or replaces his skin.

That's enough to ruin him because it takes away from a very important aspect of his character.

[RabbitSamurai]

We already know that Doom's got metal armor that grows on or replaces his skin.

That's enough to ruin him because it takes away from a very important aspect of his character.

Picture Darth Vader with "organic armor" draped over Hayden Christiansen's face and body(or even worse, Humpty Dumpty's from Return of the Jedi).

It just robs him of his cool, old-school villian appearance.

[Sardaukar]

(or even worse, Humpty Dumpty's from Return of the Jedi).

Hey, that's one thing I don't get.

Of all the actors they could have chosen to play Darth underneath the armor, why did they pick that guy?

[RabbitSamurai]

Who knows....I would have preferred to have seen James Earl Jones over him.

[TheSaintofKillers]

We already know that Doom's got metal armor that grows on or replaces his skin.

That's enough to ruin him because it takes away from a very important aspect of his character.

I wouldn't say ruin, but rather damage. Warren Ellis is doing one heck of a great arc with an organic steel Doom. While it's not 100% Doom, Ellis is still providing us with a great alternate version of Victor.

But then again, this is Warren Ellis, he's a comic book genius. I doubt many hollywood writers can even dream of matching his writing skills.

[RabbitSamurai]

And I'm pretty sure Warren Ellis isn't writing the FF movie.

...sadly.

[Zev]

I consider Doom being an Evil Businessman and thus an example of (yawn!) Capitalism Run Amok a lot worse then having Organic Metal.

[Sardaukar]

I was just wondering...

People justify no Latveria in this flick by saying it can be used in the sequel.

But then many of those same people say that the whole Lateveria concept isn't realistic to begin with.

So, which is it?

Also, it would make absolutely no sense to not talk about Latveria and Doom's deep connection to it in the first movie and then all of a sudden make it a big deal in the sequel. For part 2, people would be like "Uh, where'd this whole Latverian thing come from?"

[Herr Logan]

I consider Doom being an Evil Businessman and thus an example of (yawn!) Capitalism Run Amok a lot worse then having Organic Metal.

Doom has been shown to covet power much more than wealth, although the two are often interchangable.

In the only issue of "the Amzing Spider-Man" written by J. Michael Straczinsky that I really like, Dr. Doom flew to the United States to confer with other world leaders about global warming, for which he blamed the industries of the United States and others and left Latveria blameless. This implies that Doom has found other ways to strengthen his country directly than use capitalistic means that damage the environment. Doom is concerned with peace and excellence, not money. This movie plot sucks the big one.

[Sardaukar]

I suspect that Doom makes his money for his country through selling his highly advanced technology to other nations for vast sums. Plus, it should be kept in mind that Latveria isn't a big country either in population or surface area. It doesn't need great amounts of wealth. The people there live simple lives and are content with what they have...

...because Doom commands it.

[RabbitSamurai]

You're damn right because Doom commands it!

[cryptic name]

The Doom character is more important in FF lore than the Human Torch.

Defend or deny this statement.

heroes are only as good as the villains they face

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

. This movie plot sucks the big one.

'NUFF SAID!!

[Zev]

Doom has been shown to covet power much more than wealth, although the two are often interchangable.

In the only issue of "the Amzing Spider-Man" written by J. Michael Straczinsky that I really like, Dr. Doom flew to the United States to confer with other world leaders about global warming, for which he blamed the industries of the United States and others and left Latveria blameless. This implies that Doom has found other ways to strengthen his country directly than use capitalistic means that damage the environment. Doom is concerned with peace and excellence, not money. This movie plot sucks the big one.

Of course, Doom doesn't share these high-tech and environmentally-safe means of energy production with other nations because he's EVIL!

Although I don't know what Reed's excuse is.

"Yes, Mr. President, I'll get right on developing cold fusion... could you excuse me, Val needs her diaper changed."

[Everyman]

I consider Doom being an Evil Businessman and thus an example of (yawn!) Capitalism Run Amok a lot worse then having Organic Metal.

Agreed. It is the fact that Doom is now an evil and no more a dictator destroys the character. Businessmen have been done to death, they are clichés. The megalomaniacal dictator is a cliché too, but it hasn't been used in a while in movies, and not that much, and never in a superhero movie (except maybe Zod in Superman II). And the dictator figure is a cliché that fits the character of Doctor Doom better: he can bring some freshness to it.

[Zev]

I don't think we've ever seen a benevolent dictator quite like Doom. He genuinely wants to help people, he's not just crazy or evil.

[snazzy J]

I don't think we've ever seen a benevolent dictator quite like Doom. He genuinely wants to help people, he's not just crazy or evil.
And, arguably, he really does help them.

[Sardaukar]

You know, political correctness is probably why they didn't go for the whole benevolent dictator angle...

FOX Executive #1: "This Doom guy's a tyrant, but he's actually concerned about justice? He treats his subjects with respect? They actually love him?"

FOX Executive #2: "That's no good. Most people believe that guys like this are Satan-personified. You think that after a war where we went into Iraq to dispose of an evil dictator, we're going to show them one who's actually sympathetic? People would accuse us of being unamerican, fascist, terrorist, traitors!"

FOX Executive #1: "You're right. Kill it. Make him a corporate executive. They'll love that."

FOX Executive #2: "Riiiight. Enron. Ingenius."

FOX Executive #1: "Thanks!"

FOX Executive #3: "I've just called Arad, he loves it!"

FOX Executive #1: "Have we got a Director we can control?"

FOX Executive #2: "Already on it."

And the rest is history...

[Obi-Ron]

That's such an accurate picture of executive decision making it's not even funny.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

I don't think we've ever seen a benevolent dictator quite like Doom. He genuinely wants to help people, he's not just crazy or evil.
Exactly dead on. They should have played up the angle of an establish Doom who has just brought peace to his country and considers himself the worlds greatest hero, only to look up at old nemesis Reed being touted as such on TV. "D-ohh!"
Also, gotta love your quote, Zev. The easily led being unable to form their own free-standing opinions is entertainment at it's finest! :doom:

[Zev]

You know, political correctness is probably why they didn't go for the whole benevolent dictator angle...

FOX Executive #1: "This Doom guy's a tyrant, but he's actually concerned about justice? He treats his subjects with respect? They actually love him?"

FOX Executive #2: "That's no good. Most people believe that guys like this are Satan-personified. You think that after a war where we went into Iraq to dispose of an evil dictator, we're going to show them one who's actually sympathetic? People would accuse us of being unamerican, fascist, terrorist, traitors!"

FOX Executive #1: "You're right. Kill it. Make him a corporate executive. They'll love that."

FOX Executive #2: "Riiiight. Enron. Ingenius."

FOX Executive #1: "Thanks!"

FOX Executive #3: "I've just called Arad, he loves it!"

FOX Executive #1: "Have we got a Director we can control?"

FOX Executive #2: "Already on it."

And the rest is history...


Trust me, one thing Hollywood NEVER worries about is being unamerican. "What? They think we're not being patriotic? Throw a few flags in there, that'll show 'im!"

[Everyman]

Trust me, one thing Hollywood NEVER worries about is being unamerican. "What? They think we're not being patriotic? Throw a few flags in there, that'll show 'im!"
In Doom's case, I think there is something of it however. They don't want a bad guy with some moral backing who has full diplomatic immunity in the USA...

[RabbitSamurai]

In Doom's case, I think there is something of it however. They don't want a bad guy with some moral backing who has full diplomatic immunity in the USA...

But see, that adds drama. Heroes are forced to either wait for the villian to trip up (not likely) or they have to wrok outside the law, which crimps their morals. This is what we call GOOD storytelling. Fox, apparently, does not.

[Kel]

Hmmmm....I think I'll just keep reading on this thread.....

[Everyman]

But see, that adds drama. Heroes are forced to either wait for the villian to trip up (not likely) or they have to wrok outside the law, which crimps their morals. This is what we call GOOD storytelling. Fox, apparently, does not.

OF COURSE it is good storytelling. I think the dictator-Doom is waaaayyyy better than the corporate-greedy-Doom. But producers prefer to show that they are self-conscious about the dangers of big corporations and big business. Maybe they think an evil businessman will sell more. I don't know for the people here but personnally, I am sick of evil tycoons, I find them weak and uninvolving. In a way, this "new Doom" is an incarnation of Fox's blind appetite for money. All greed, without the necessary intelligence to achieve anything. Because I am afraid that this movie will be a failure. Not because it is unfaithful with the comics. But because it has a weak villain. And as they say, your movie is just as good as your badguys.

[RabbitSamurai]

OF COURSE it is good storytelling. I think the dictator-Doom is waaaayyyy better than the corporate-greedy-Doom. But producers prefer to show that they are self-conscious about the dangers of big corporations and big business. Maybe they think an evil businessman will sell more. I don't know for the people here but personnally, I am sick of evil tycoons, I find them weak and uninvolving. In a way, this "new Doom" is an incarnation of Fox's blind appetite for money. All greed, without the necessary intelligence to achieve anything. Because I am afraid that this movie will be a failure. Not because it is unfaithful with the comics. But because it has a weak villain. And as they say, your movie is just as good as your badguys.

I find it interesting that Hollywood is consistently against "big business"...seeing as how it IS a big business.

[TwistedMentat]

Sardaukar, nice name. I thought Dune-freaks weren't into Comic books. ;-)

[Sardaukar]

Sardaukar, nice name. I thought Dune-freaks weren't into Comic books. ;-)
This Dune freak is an exception. ;)

Welcome to the board, Twisted.

[TwistedMentat]

Thanks man. =D I was beginning to think everyone on the boards was rude. Well, Dune people must stick together as usual!

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

I find it interesting that Hollywood is consistently against "big business"...seeing as how it IS a big business.
It's not at all that they're actually against it. It's that they are extremely in love with themselves and overestimate their own power and impact. As such, they constantly reinforce the idea that corporate power is the end all be all in everything. That's why they CAN'T represent a Doom that's true to the books because they can't conceive of the ability of a man using his mere wits and willpower to become more potent than they are.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

PS ...Oh and Dune RULES!

[Sardaukar]

It's kinda strange...

For almost 40 years of comics, Marvel has featured all these great stories about Doom, turning a simple villain into a character greatly reverred by the fans.

And I appreciate that, as many of you have.

Now, when Doom is about to get his greatest public exposure ever, and fans are finally to be rewarded with seeing the guy on screen, Marvel changes the character to ****, and therefore ruining this event for so many of us in order to appease those who don't give a damn about comic books.

It's distressing. Where's the loyalty?

[Herr Logan]

The loyalty in the staff of both Marvel Comics and Marvel Films is about as alive as Bucky Barnes after World War 2.

[TwistedMentat]

Ok, I'm in the dark here. What the hell are they doing to Doom? Removing his mask...or f-ing up his background? Don't tell me he's going to be some pretty-boy faking a Germanic accent and not even don the costume. :/ Ugh.

[RabbitSamurai]

They're technically doing both, and I don't even want to THINK about faking the accent right now...

[TwistedMentat]

Well, there's another comic-book hero movie I won't be seeing. No evil Doom in suit, etc, no movie in my opinion.

[Kel]

Well, there's another comic-book hero movie I won't be seeing. No evil Doom in suit, etc, no movie in my opinion.
Ok...sooooo can I have your popcorn.;)

[TwistedMentat]

Ok...sooooo can I have your popcorn.;)Sure! That stuff makes me sick as is. :D

[Kel]

Sure! That stuff makes me sick as is. :D
Popcorn is my only vice....well other than well....nevermind!:cool:

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Ok, I'm in the dark here. What the hell are they doing to Doom? Removing his mask...or f-ing up his background? Don't tell me he's going to be some pretty-boy faking a Germanic accent and not even don the costume. :/ Ugh.
No longer the Lord of Latveria who sees himself as the hero and savior of the human race, he's a Eurotrash tycoon whose motivation to be a villian is Reed stealing his beloved Sue ( ick ). Gone is the man who, with merely the power of his incredible mind and indomitable will, is able to go toe to toe with super powered beings to be replaced by a fellow who got stuporpowers ( basically he's a poor-man's Colossus )on the same flight as the FF. Cliche' Contrived Contrite

Each time I restate that it makes me ILL. That's what I get for thinking they couldn't do worse than a 6 foot tall tap-dancing Wolverine. Geez.

[TwistedMentat]

No longer the Lord of Latveria who sees himself as the hero and savior of the human race, he's a Eurotrash tycoon whose motivation to be a villian is Reed stealing his beloved Sue ( ick ). Gone is the man who, with merely the power of his incredible mind and indomitable will, is able to go toe to toe with super powered beings to be replaced by a fellow who got stuporpowers ( basically he's a poor-man's Colossus )on the same flight as the FF. Cliche' Contrived Contrite

Each time I restate that it makes me ILL. That's what I get for thinking they couldn't do worse than a 6 foot tall tap-dancing Wolverine. Geez.
Thank you for clarifying! Ignorant, ignorant changes. Will you be seeing the film, or just staying away from it for health reasons?

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Thank you for clarifying! Ignorant, ignorant changes. Will you be seeing the film, or just staying away from it for health reasons?
I'll wait and borrow my computer tech buddy's bootleg that he's sure to obtain to insure Avi Arad makes not one plug nickle off of me.

[Herr Logan]

No longer the Lord of Latveria who sees himself as the hero and savior of the human race, he's a Eurotrash tycoon whose motivation to be a villian is Reed stealing his beloved Sue ( ick ). Gone is the man who, with merely the power of his incredible mind and indomitable will, is able to go toe to toe with super powered beings to be replaced by a fellow who got stuporpowers ( basically he's a poor-man's Colossus )on the same flight as the FF. Cliche' Contrived Contrite

Each time I restate that it makes me ILL. That's what I get for thinking they couldn't do worse than a 6 foot tall tap-dancing Wolverine. Geez.

You know, I'm reminded of a series from the late 80's/early 90's called "Dracula: the Series," where Dracula was a Eurotrash business tycoon. Feh...

By the way, thank you for that remark about Movie!Wolverine. My heart swells. :) :wolverine

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Yeah- was that a joke or what?

[Everyman]

You know, I'm reminded of a series from the late 80's/early 90's called "Dracula: the Series," where Dracula was a Eurotrash business tycoon. Feh...

By the way, thank you for that remark about Movie!Wolverine. My heart swells. :) :wolverine

I remember that series, it was crap. And it is funny you mention this because I said in another thread that the changes made to Doctor Doom reminded me of the changes made in Coppola's Dracula to the main character. In both cases the badguy is now motivated, totally or not, by love.

[Herr Logan]

There were a few really great things about Coppola's "Bram Stoker's Dracula," but I really hated the romantic overhaul they gave Vlad.

[Everyman]

I think it is a shallow movie. The aesthetic had some merits, but everything else was wrong, plagued by a misinterpretations of Stoker's novel, anachronisms and caricatural characters. The only essential difference with the Fantastic Four movie so far is that the FF movie will not have anachronisms.

[Darko]

When I decipher the meaning of "anachronism", only then will have the knowledge to understand and interprete what you are referring to.........

[Everyman]

When I decipher the meaning of "anachronism", only then will have the knowledge to understand and interprete what you are referring to.........

"Anachronism" put something in a time (of history) when it shouldn't be. For example in many historical movies characters talk as if they were in modern time. The FF movie being sci-fi, it doesn't have any, unless you count the devices of Reed as "anachronism". In Coppola's Drac, you have people behaving like late 20th century people while they are in a Victorian setting.

[portland2002]

Maybe in a few years someone can do a remake of Fantastic Four called Jack's Kirby's Doctor Doom?

[Sardaukar]

From: http://members.aol.com/doomscribe/armor.htm

"Doctor Doom wears a sophisticated suit of nuclear powered, micro-computer-enhanced body armor containing various offensive weaponry, including concussion beams (particle beams) and other devices subject to change; defensive weaponry including a force field (invisible kinetic energy/dimensional shunt) and the ability to charge the surface of his armor with 30,000 volts of electricity; and a self-contained air supply for 4 hours. He has been known to carry a molecular-expander pistol in a belt holster."


Linear armature motors - flat,individually shaped to mimic motions of specific muscles.

Endo Skeleton Frame.

Thermonuclear power generators (2).

Gauntlet blasters - with energy discharge mixing chamber.

Force Field Generator array.

9 mm Broom Handle Mauser - handgun.

Man Amplifier Motors at hip, knee and elbow, ankle

Communications Pod.

Nuclear Jet Engines - for jet flight.

[Herr Logan]

Maybe in a few years someone can do a remake of Fantastic Four called Jack's Kirby's Doctor Doom?

Yes! That's an awesome idea!

The first movie version of both Dracula and Frankenstein were vastly different than the books-- Frankenstein more so than Dracula. In the 90's, both stories were remade quite faithfully (with some notable differences as well) with movie titles featuring the original author's name. That's what they need to do for each and every Marvel comic book franchise that has been filmed so far. Except for maybe Blade and the Punisher.

[Everyman]

I don,t think you can consider Coppola's Dracula faithful. Brannagh's Frankenstein, with all his flaws, was pretty faithful to the novel though. And Mary Shelley's novel is quite difficult to adapt.

[Herr Logan]

It's true that Coppola's adaptation was very different from the book. It was just more faithful in some ways than previous films.

Frankenstein, the novel, was one of the worst books I have ever read. The story is awesome, but Mary Shelley did a horrible job of writing it. Kenneth Brannagh did a great job of adapting the story very faithfully and got the gothic horror tone just right to make the impact it should. He also played a great Victor Frankenstein, as the character is supposed to be a self-absorbed, arrogant schmuck, and that fits Brannagh perfectly.

[Sardaukar]

More interesting information...

Taken from: http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/doom.htm

For info on what the rankings (Feeble, Amazing, etc.) mean, go to http://www.classicmarvel.com/generation/benchmarks.htm

Dr. Doom

Victor Von Doom

Fighting: Remarkable
Agility: Excellent
Strength: Remarkable
Endurance: Monstrous
Reason: Amazing
Intuition: Incredible
Psyche: Amazing

Health: 155
Karma: 140
Resources: Incredible
Popularity: -75

Known Powers:
Hyper-Invention: Monstrous ability to comprehend/design/repair technology.

Equipment:
BATTLE SUIT: Von Doom almost never removes his personal armor, but without it, his stats are:
Fighting: Excellent
Agility: Good
Strength: Typical
Endurance: Good
Reason: Amazing
Intuition: Incredible
Psyche: Amazing
Doom's personal battle armor has the following powers and effects:

Body Armor: Doom's armor has Amazing material strength and provides Incredible protection from physical attacks and Amazing protection from energy attacks, including heat, cold, radiation, electricity, and lasers.

Force Field: The armor can generate an Unearthly intensity personal force field. Doom cannot attack while the force field is active.

Flight: Doom's armor is equipped with a retractable jet backpack, which provides flight at Incredible speed.

Blasters: Doom's primary armament are a pair of gauntlet mounted particle beam emitters which cause up to Monstrous force or blunt attack damage, or stun with up to Amazing ability, at a range of 7 areas. The blasters can also be used as an area attack, affecting everyone in an adjacent area at -2CS damage. Area attacks cannot be dodged, but intended targets can escape its effects by leaving the area of effect.

Laser Beam: This is a gauntlet mounted laser, causing up to Amazing energy damage at a range of 7 areas.

Tractor Beam: The gauntlet mounted tractor beam exerts Amazing strength up to 7 areas distant. It is generally used to pull an opponent or object towards Doom, or hold an opponent or object in place. Note that the Tractor Beam cannot cause any damage by itself. A strength FEAT roll is required to break free of the Tractor Beam's power.

Lightning Beam: This gauntlet mounted electroblaster causes up to Amazing electrical damage or stuns opponents with Incredible ability at a range of 3 areas.

Electric Touch: The armor can channel electricity along its surface, causing Monstrous electrical damage or stunning with Amazing ability on contact.

Disruptor Beam: These gauntlet mounted electromagnetic/gravitic wave emitters disrupt electrical fields, rendering electronic equipment powerless for 1-10 turns with Amazing ability at a range of 5 areas. A successful power FEAT roll against the intensity of the disruptor negates the effect. The disruptor ignores body armor but not force fields. However, if the force field is generated by an electronic device, the disruptor can affect it with power rank ability.

Neuro-Neutralizer: These gauntlet mounted neural wave projectors disrupt the brain waves of living opponents, paralyzing them with Monstrous ability for 1-10 turns at a range of 5 areas. A successful Endurance FEAT roll against the intensity of neuro-neutralizer negates the effect. The neuro-neutralizer ignores body armor but not force fields.

Molecular Expander: Each of Doom's gauntlets contain specially treated microscopic particles that, upon contact with the air, instantly expand into the size of boulders. These boulders completely cover any single area adjacent to Doom. Anyone in this area suffers up to Monstrous damage and is buried under Monstrous weight boulders. Doom has enough particles to fire two shots before he must replenish his supply.

Chronal Deccelerator: Doom's gauntlets can also project beams of chronal displacement energy that modify his opponent's relationship to the time stream. The effect of this chronal displacement is to slow the opponent down in relation to real time. Anyone struck by the chronal deccelerator suffers a -2CS to his Fighting and Agility FEAT rolls for 1-10 turns. In addition, anyone struck by the chronal deccelerator always loses initiative. If an opponent is hit by the chronal deccelerator while still under the effects of a prior hit, he suffer an additional -1CS to his Fighting and Agility FEAT rolls for each additional hit. The chronal deccelerator has a range of 2 areas and ignores body armor but not force fields.

Pain Inducers: On contact, Doom's gauntlets can channel powerful nerve disruptors which cause excruciating pain to living opponents. An opponent touched by the pain inducers must make an Endurance FEAT roll: a White result means he is rendered unconscious for 1-10 turns; a Green result means all FEATs involving Fighting, Agility and Strength are at -2CS for a full turn; a Yellow result means all FEATS involving Fighting, Agility and Strength are at -1CS for a full turn; and a Red result means the character is able to shrug off the effects. Note that characters who are suffering a loss of strength as result of the pain inducers will have the damage they cause from physical attacks reduced accordingly (example: if Doom touches the Thing with his pain inducers and the Thing rolls a Yellow Endurance FEAT, his strength is reduced to Amazing for one full turn). The pain inducers ignore natural body armor (such as the Thing's rocky epidermis) but not artificial body armor or force fields. Clothing does not impede the pain inducers unless it is several inches thick.

Sensors: Doom's armor provides infravision and enhanced hearing, with Incredible ability. The armor is also equipped with radar, sonar, sonic, thermal, infra-red, and radiation detection units. Each has a range of 100 miles and functions with Amazing ability. While the sensors are active, Doom cannot be blindsided. Doom's armor also can detect hazardous gases, chemicals, and particles, estimate height, weight, and distance, and estimated times of arrival based on velocity with Amazing ability. If the sensors are inactive or disabled, Doom's Intuition is reduced to Excellent. This does not affect his Karma.

Communicators: The armor is also equipped with an all band radio communicator, several personal cell phone lines, a wireless modem, a wireless fax imaging system, several private frequency lines, and an AM/FM radio. The armor can link up with global satellites to enable communications around the world, with Monstrous ability.

Computers: Doom's armor has a built-in housekeeping computer of Monstrous ability that controls and monitors most suit functions and processes data from his headquarters in Latveria.

Air Supply: Doom's armor contains enough compressed air for 1 hour of normal breathing (this is shortened if the armor is operated at high pressure). The oxygen tanks automatically replenishes itself when exposed to breathable air. It takes approximately 5 turns to completely replenish the air supply.
<LI>Life Support: Doom's armor provides a complete nuclear, chemical, biological environment for 30 days by filtering air.

Special: Doom will often design specific weapons for a given encounter if he anticipates a battle. The more he knows about the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent, the more effective the weapon will be. Doom will usually be equipped with a number of weapons specifically designed to combat the original members of the Fantastic Four (example: when entering battle against the Human Torch, Doom has equipped his armor with special flame killer mini-missiles launched from his gauntlets. These missiles have Amazing speed and control, and Good body. Upon impact, they douse flames with Monstrous ability. Each gauntlet contains upto three such mini-missiles, and they can be guided to their target cybernetically).

Magic:
Doom is an adept sorceror, trained by Dr. Strange. He has displayed the following: Crimsom Bands of Cyttorak: Remarkable

Dimension Travel: Limited to Mephisto's Realm, but he needs at least an Excellent rank aid to break though dimensional barriers.

Eldritch Bolts: Doom can fire blasts of mystical energy that cause upto Amazing damage

Eldritch Shield: Remarkable

Summoning: Good

<LI>Mind Transferal: Doom can trigger his Amazing ability with anyone in 3 areas of him who makes eye contact with him. Targets get to make a Psyche FEAT vs. Amazing to resist power.

Talents: Doom possesses Robotics, Computers, Cybernetics, Engineering, and Electronics talents. He has extensive knowledge of time travel technology, occult lore and mysticism.

[Sardaukar]

Ya know, considering all that, it's kind of funny that movie Doom is just using lightning.

Talk about a waste of potential. :rolleyes:

[Cool_Jerk]

Wow. I kinda forgot about a few of those armor weapons he's used over the years.

Knowledge is power. I wish the folks at FOX woulda cracked open a few issues of the FF and took some notes.

[Will]

What's up with that whole 'for 1-10 turns' thing? Sounds like a board game or something :P

His armor still isn't really a match for Iron Man's though since Tony specializes in that type of thing.

But yeah his arsenal has been quite impressive and many during his course of the comics. One can only hope he develops impressive tech somewhere down the line in the movies.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

--sniff-- Now I'm REALLY depressed about his portrayal in the film... and even Waid's recent change in the comics...

[TwistedMentat]

I'm still getting over the Thor comic ending when I finally find one to buy. Now I can witness the rape of Dr. Doom. WUNNNNNNNNDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBAAAAAAAAR.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Marvel really seems to be giving the screw you to fans, especially the long-term ones.

[Herr Logan]

Marvel really seems to be giving the screw you to fans, especially the long-term ones.

Definitely. That's why I give it back to them whenever I can.

[Nero_Ordin]

marvel has turned it back to their fans alittle but they do alot to make up for it.

[neonda]

basically I still did not understand if DOOM will have to wear his armor (organic or not) also to hide his disfigured face (just like in the first version of the comics) or not.
In my opinion I think that if they would change this part of the story, it will be a little bit disappointing, because I think that a big part of DOOM's charme is due to the mistery about his face.

[Sardaukar]

What's up with that whole 'for 1-10 turns' thing? Sounds like a board game or something :P


Marvel Superheroes roleplaying game.

From the 80s.

[metr0man]

I'm pretty depressed about Doom's supposed portrayal...
The coolest thing about Doom, other than the armor ;), was that the man RULED AN ENTIRE COUNTRY!!! WITH AN IRON FIST!!! LITERALLY!!!!!

how cool is that!? The man has an entire frikken country and his capital building is a giant gothic castle. Awesome. He makes the "ooh I am wealthy and own a company!" villians like Kingpin, Lex, Norman Osborn, etc, look like little pussies!

But all tht's gone. :(

[snazzy J]

I'm pretty depressed about Doom's supposed portrayal...
The coolest thing about Doom, other than the armor ;), was that the man RULED AN ENTIRE COUNTRY!!! WITH AN IRON FIST!!! LITERALLY!!!!!

how cool is that!? The man has an entire frikken country and his capital building is a giant gothic castle. Awesome. He makes the "ooh I am wealthy and own a company!" villians like Kingpin, Lex, Norman Osborn, etc, look like little pussies!

But all tht's gone. :(
Not necessarily. He could still get Latveria later on. I would prefer him not to start out ruling at the beginning, but take over later on. This is certainly not the way I want them to go about that, though.

[snazzy J]

If anybody missed it earlier in this thread, here's (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142129) my and a couple others' take on corporate Doom.

[Compi716]

I'm not sure if organic Doom is really a problem anymore ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/ff-9.jpg

[TwistedMentat]

I'm not sure if organic Doom is really a problem anymore ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/ff-9.jpg
:eek: WTF? IS THAT REAL!?!?!?

[HerosOnFilm]

:eek: WTF? IS THAT REAL!?!?!?

Yes. It is! :doom:

[TwistedMentat]

Yes. It is! :doom:\m/ :doom: :doom:

Nice mask, but get him off that spaceship and dub a better voice over! :doom:

Well, I should be happy he has a mask at least. *shuts mouth* EVERYONE GO WATCH THE FOOTAGE who hasn't.

[snazzy J]

This is getting weird. From what McMahon said in the video, we should be getting organic armor, but from the pictures, it's pretty obvious it's a mask. Maybe he will make the armor and they're just trying to **** with us.

[snazzy J]

Also, the mask looks great, but I really wish he had the cloak. Just through a green hood on there and it would be perfection. Without, it just looks kinda' off.

[Maxwinner]

This is getting weird. From what McMahon said in the video, we should be getting organic armor, but from the pictures, it's pretty obvious it's a mask. Maybe he will make the armor and they're just trying to **** with us. What ***** are they gonna do!?!? Implant real Steele...CGI is too expensive!!!

[snazzy J]

What ***** are they gonna do!?!? Implant real Steele...CGI is too expensive!!!
I mean that you can clearly see the skin around his eyes, and what look to be rivets. Also the mouth doesn't look very organic and happens to look the same as his company logo. If it is supposed to be organic armor, then they did kind of a crappy job making it.

[Sardaukar]

If they were just ****ing with us all along about that organic ****, I wouldn't mind.

I just hope they can now make Doom the scientific genius he's supposed to be.

[Michael Corleone]

This is getting weird. From what McMahon said in the video, we should be getting organic armor, but from the pictures, it's pretty obvious it's a mask. Maybe he will make the armor and they're just trying to **** with us.
Actually its pretty obvious that its wrapped around his head. Also if you look close you can see that it sort of just goes into his skin. I would say this isnt a mask(in the story). obviously it is a mask but for the story it will be organic. I would say its a safe bet that it's not a mask.

[gap5ewl]

no if u look closely at on of the shots, the back of his head is bare. you can see hair and skin so i think its a mask

[Sardaukar]

LOL!

I just saw the clip. It's organic...

Game over.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Crap!!

[Will]

Guesswork at it's best ;)

[TheSaintofKillers]

LOL!

I just saw the clip. It's organic...

Game over.

Not that he won't have organic steel skin, but how the hell did that clip give you the impression that it was organic ? It looks way more like an iron mask than an iron face. But hey, that's me.

[TheSaintofKillers]

It kind of remind me a bit of this actually. This is the kind of acting i'm hoping Julian will be able to do under that mask.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/doomface.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/ff-10.jpg

[TheSaintofKillers]

While my manip is pretty ugly (paint power, baby!), it does show that, with the green hood, the mask will look a lot more faithful (it already is, but this proves it even more). ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/doomironmaskgreen2.jpg

[Sardaukar]

It kind of remind me a bit of this actually. This is the kind of acting i'm hoping Julian will be able to do under that mask.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/doomface.jpg

See, that mask would have been superb for the movie. You can clearly see the eyes and the mouth...look at the facial expressions possible!

And it's inorganic...and it's not even flexible metal...yet it rules.

[Sardaukar]

I'm not sure if organic Doom is really a problem anymore ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/ff-9.jpg
I never had much doubt that an organic mask would look good.

It's the very concept of organic **** that disturbs me.

[Rebel_Ace]

http://www.ncsoftware.com/images/doomrefinances.jpg

[RabbitSamurai]

http://www.ncsoftware.com/images/doomrefinances.jpg

:D:up: Brilliant!

[Will]

I love this pic(scanned it myself).

http://tinypic.com/l9mp3

[Vartha]

Give Victor an armor instead of organic skin (for us to have a great Doom rendition), and your idea, Sardaukar, could be easily incorporated in the Frost's script. Easily.

Doesn't Fox force these writers to read comic books before writing their script ? Why didn't Frost read Doom comics ? And if he did, why did he respect the FF and NOT Doom ?? Was it for the sake of messing with us ??? For insulting 40 years of comic book history ??

Fox and Arad most definitely have a vendetta against us Doom fans, no doubt about it. :mad: I Stan Lee is changing some of the FF and Doom to HIS liking. When Kirby was alive he wouldn't have tried these changes.
Stan may have had some good Ideas, but Kirby was the one to curb the bad ones.
Kirby was the bigger Idea man by a long shot, he just sucked at the words. Kirby would draw entire comic books from front to back and Stan would fill in the words later.

[portland2002]

Originally Posted by thesaintofkille:

It kind of remind me a bit of this actually. This is the kind of acting i'm hoping Julian will be able to do under that mask.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/thesaintofkiller/doomface.jpg

Somehow, this pic of Doom reminds of Magneto's helmet.

[RabbitSamurai]

Probably because it looks JUST LIKE IT.

[RabbitSamurai]

I love this pic(scanned it myself).

http://tinypic.com/l9mp3

Holy--! Who drew that? Hat's off to them!

[Will]

Heheh, that would be Salvador Larroca. He drew all of Chris Claremont's run when he was on board.

[Sardaukar]

I love this pic(scanned it myself).

http://tinypic.com/l9mp3^That's classic Doom speak. :cool:

[RabbitSamurai]

Heheh, that would be Salvador Larroca. He drew all of Chris Claremont's run when he was on board.

Well, Larroca deserves an award of some kind for putting forth such beauty.....the beauty of DOOM!

[Head>On<Collider]

Whatever happened to Herr Logan?

[RabbitSamurai]

He, uh....died?
I have no idea.

[KAZUYA]

I dont like your new look doc:(

[KAZUYA]

He, uh....died?
I have no idea.Nice Avatar!!! :)

[RabbitSamurai]

Well, thanks, Kazuya. :up:

[Herr Logan]

Whatever happened to Herr Logan?

Kidnapped and left for dead in Mexico. It took me this long to stagger home and recuperate.

Truth is, there just wasn't much to say on this subject that hasn't been said before. I know I've repeated my rhetoric many times in the past, but I just didn't feel the urge on this topic anymore. While I know enough to be angered and give specific examples of why Marvel Films is evil, I don't know enough about the Fantastic Four to truly give this movie a thorough and proper tirade as to what needs to be included and every single reason why Avi Arad and his goons are bastardizing our beloved heroes and villains with regard to this particular film. I leave Saudaker and his other followers in charge of pontificating on the virtues of classic Dr. Doom, since they seem to really get it. Meanwhile, I'm busy trying to fight the evil that is Joe Quesada and J. Michael Straczinsky. The movies were never going to be good enough, but now the publishing company that spawned the intellectual property upon which the movies were built has gone completely over the edge. There will be a revolution, and there will be justice...

I'm truly touched that my absence was noted and not overtly celebrated, though. :wolverine

[Head>On<Collider]

Kidnapped and left for dead in Mexico. It took me this long to stagger home and recuperate.

Truth is, there just wasn't much to say on this subject that hasn't been said before. I know I've repeated my rhetoric many times in the past, but I just didn't feel the urge on this topic anymore. While I know enough to be angered and give specific examples of why Marvel Films is evil, I don't know enough about the Fantastic Four to truly give this movie a thorough and proper tirade as to what needs to be included and every single reason why Avi Arad and his goons are bastardizing our beloved heroes and villains with regard to this particular film. I leave Saudaker and his other followers in charge of pontificating on the virtues of classic Dr. Doom, since they seem to really get it. Meanwhile, I'm busy trying to fight the evil that is Joe Quesada and J. Michael Straczinsky. The movies were never going to be good enough, but now the publishing company that spawned the intellectual property upon which the movies were built has gone completely over the edge. There will be a revolution, and there will be justice...

I'm truly touched that my absence was noted and not overtly celebrated, though. :wolverineLADIES AND GENTLEMEN..................:up:

[Herr Logan]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN..................:up:

http://stuffthatisawesome.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/doommug.jpg

Yeah that's right. :doom:

[Sardaukar]

More goodness...

http://www.geocities.com/mbrown123/fantasticfour5.html



July, 1962

The Fantastic Four #5

THE FIRST RULE IN STORYTELLING IS THIS: You're only as good as your villain. The greater the challenge, the more heroic the heroes become when they overcome them. And they don't come greater than Dr. Victor von Doom.

Originally the son of Gypsies in the fictional European country of Latveria, young Victor learned at an early age the cruelty of prejudice when both his mother and father were killed by a Latverian nobleman. The embittered young genius became an expert in the areas of both science and mysticism, and he soon turned his energies towards gaining Latveria's throne. Once there, he ruled over his people with an iron fist, and used his country's resources to fuel his thirst for global power.

In the wrong hands, the character would have been nothing more than a caricature, a foil for the Fantastic Four to defeat with their cool gadgets and noble hearts. But the writers behind the series have given him a sense of nobility to underscore his ruthlessness, and the result is a character who's just as likely to be pitied as he is to be feared.

Dr. Doom is also the dark shadow to the Fantastic Four's light in many ways. Where the FF are based in a modern Manhattan skyscraper, Dr. Doom sits in a European castle and harks back to a feudal time. He rules his kingdom as an absolute dictator, and yet his subjects love him for the security and protection he provides. The FF represent the freedom of scientific pursuit and the betterment of mankind through science, while Doom's awesome inventions are used only to further his own schemes and to retain an even tighter rule on a people content to remain at an 18th-century level of sophistication.

More personally, Dr. Doom is the reminder of what Reed Richards could have become -- both are men of science who have the potential to destroy mankind with the products of their work. The difference is that Richards had family and friendship, while Doom knew only pain and persecution.

Before Doom appeared, comic-book villains rarely rose above the level of bank robber. Even the world conquerors seemed like a pathetic bunch, having enough brains to create fantastic devices and yet not enough to realize the lack of profit in using them to take over the world. What elevated Doom above them all was his sense of majesty -- he is a king, after all -- and also the sense of tragedy about him. We may shudder at his contempt for democracy and cheer when the Fantastic Four thwart his plans, but it's hard not to feel a little pity for someone whose worst sin is becoming the oppressor that once oppressed him. Did you know... · Although Doom was lost in space in his second appearance (issue #6), he returned just a few issues later. He visited the offices of none other than Stan Lee and Jack Kirby to explain how he made it back to Earth.

· Legend has it that Star Wars creator George Lucas was greatly influenced by Dr. Doom when he created his own masked tyrant, Darth Vader.

· Although early stories said that Doom's face was disfigured in a laboratory explosion, later stories suggested his face, which was merely scratched by the accident, was scarred by his red-hot mask when he first put it on. As of the end of 1999, his true visage had not been revealed, and it's unlikely it ever will be.

[Kel]

Who wrote that????^^^^^^

I don't think anyone is denying that there should be good vs. evil and I really like how they described the differences between Reed and Doom...I think the movie will really show those differences...just maybe not in the way that purists of Doom want it to be portrayed.

[zer00]

Who wrote that????^^^^^^

I don't think anyone is denying that there should be good vs. evil and I really like how they described the differences between Reed and Doom...I think the movie will really show those differences...just maybe not in the way that purists of Doom want it to be portrayed.

I think "concerned Doom citizens" works better than purists of Doom.

That or it just sounds funnier.......yeah..just sounds funnier....

[Kel]

I think "concerned Doom citizens" works better than purists of Doom.

That or it just sounds funnier.......yeah..just sounds funnier....
I think there is actually a difference between those too...please don't think I'm using "purists" in a derogatory manner...I'm not...I respect their desire to keep Doom "pure" to his persona in the comics...I'm also a realist to a certain extent and don't really see that happening...

[zer00]

I think there is actually a difference between those too...please don't think I'm using "purists" in a derogatory manner...I'm not...I respect their desire to keep Doom "pure" to his persona in the comics...I'm also a realist to a certain extent and don't really see that happening...

Oh I didn't mean you were...I'm bored so I'm posting in places I usually lurk.

Or as I like to call it "the continuation of my sad existence" :up:

[Kel]

Oh I didn't mean you were...I'm bored so I'm posting in places I usually lurk.

Or as I like to call it "the continuation of my sad existence" :up:
Well don't lurk so much...join in the fun...;)

[Vartha]

Well don't lurk so much...join in the fun...;) lol lurk?? look who's talkin...I know your out there now, but your light by yuor name isn't lit

[Kel]

This is true...but sometimes I'm not the one on this name so its easier just to stay invisible...LOL

[Sardaukar]

Purists of Doom is fine...

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Minions of Doom? No, wait...Heroclix owns that one.

[Sardaukar]

Don't know if I can actually bear to watch this movie, knowing what I know...

[Franklin Richards]

To the people who are up in arms about Doom not being the current monarch of Latveria. I'd like to say that Doom losing and regaining control of Latveria is an integral part of the Doom storyline. He wasn't born the ruler of Latveria and he's had to fight for it several times in the past. Don't jump the gun on Doom ruling Latveria. This is an origin story after all and you have to have somewhere to go. He'll be ruling Latveria before ya know it. He just has to start somewhere.

Here's a nice article about Doom's history of gaining and losing Latveria so many times.


Articles: History of Latveria
by Sean Kleefeld

Who rules Latveria? Dr. Doom, right? Well, not always. There was a monarchy before Doom and he has not ruled Latveria ever since his first appearance in a Marvel comic. This document will explain the rulership of the small Balkan country.

During World War II, Latveria was ruled by the Baron Tristian Mangegi de Sabbot. Even then, the country was a technological leader and Baron Von Strucker solicited their help in exchange for not overrunning the country with Nazis. Although Latveria was spared from the Nazi machine, the Baron took notes on leadership from Adolf Hitler. (X-Force #63) After his wife developed cancer, the Baron contacted Victor's father, Werner Von Doom, who did what he could but was too late to help. The Baron ordered Werner's death, at which time he ran off with his son. Werner died soon after and Victor vowed revenge on those who would destroy his family. (Fantastic Four Annual #2)

Doom studied both science and magik over the years and eventually won a scholarship to Empire State University. Shortly after his famous disfiguring accident, he left for Tibet and spent several years studying in a remote monastary. (Fantastic Four Annual #2; Fantastic Four #278) It was sometime during this extended leave that the Sabbat passed his power to King Rudolfo.

Rudolfo ruled the country poorly and it was relatively easy for Doom to usurp the dictator, using a robotic double of Rudolfo to deceive the citizens. (Astonishing Tales #2) Doom quickly re-established the country as a technological leader and used its resources to fund his own experiments (at this time, mainly time travel). He even travelled back to 1941 to study both his predecessor's and Adolf Hitler's leadership abilities. (Marvel Universe #2) After firmly establishing himself as monarch, he began using his intelligence and power to enact revenge on his only survivng rival, Reed Richards, and his family, the newly formed Fantastic Four. (Fantastic Four #5)

Doom continued to rule Latveria, occassionally using Doombots in his stead. Feeling a need for change, he began conducting cloning experiments to give himself an heir. While successful in cloning himself, he was forced into killing his clone on the day of Victor II's coronation. The ensuing battle left Victor incapacitated and Rudolfo's brother Zorba took control. (Fantastic Four #200)

Like his brother before him, Zorba was a poor king. Latveria quickly lost much of its previous prestige and wealth. Doom, having regained his sanity, was able to convince the Fantastic Four that he was a better monarch and Doom led a coup that resulted in Zorba's presumed death. It was during this uprising that Doom took a young Kristoff Vernard under his charge as an adopted son and heir. (Fantastic Four #247)

Doom was in the process of bringing the country back into a realm of financial prosperity until his apparent death at the hands of Terrax. (Fantastic Four #260) His Doombots continued to rule in his stead until his death was satisfactorally confirmed to them. At that time, they initiated a fail-safe Doom had installed where all of his memories and identity (which had been recorded earlier) were transferred into his heir, Kristoff. (Fantastic Four #278) Believing himself to be Doom, Kristoff ruled the country as Doom had when he first took control. Kristoff was captured by the Fantastic Four shortly after and exposed as the small child that he really was. (Fantastic Four #279) Although the FF kept Kristoff imprisoned under psychiatric care, he still was the official monarch of Latveria and was apparently able to run the country through his loyal Doombots while imprisoned. In fact, even after Doom's return (Fantastic Four #288), Kristoff was able to hold his power through his escape. (Fantastic Four Annual #20)

Several Doombots, also believing themselves to be the real Doom, fought for control of the country, enlisting the aid of several super-powered agents. Kristoff, however, was able to continually defeat them until the real Victor Von Doom returned and used an implanted memory switch to revert Kristoff back to his own personality. (Fantastic Four #350) Except for a very brief stint where one of the Magus' shades took control while Doom was searching for the Infinity Gems (Silver Sable #4-5), Victor remained in power until he was again believed killed. (Fantastic Four #381) It was at this time that Nathaniel Richards, Mr. Fantastic's father, stepped in and was able to take silent control. He ruled the country much like Doom and in fact made frequent use of Doombots to lead everyone to believe that Doom was still alive and in power.

Victor managed to escape his imprisonment from Hyperstorm and resumed control as Nathaniel quietly slipped out. (Fantastic Four #409) This, however, proved to be extremely temporary as Doom was dragged into the Franklinverse by Iron Man. (Marvel: Onslaught) While the real Victor ruled the Latveria of the Franklinverse, Kristoff and Nathaniel returned to Doom's castle, only to be repelled by Doom's reprogrammed robots. (Tales of the Marvel Universe #1) Nathaniel was able to eventually return, but not before the illegitimate grandson of Baron Sabbat, Dimitri Fortunov, tried to take control in the name of his ancestors. (X-Force #63) Since Doom's departure from the Marvel Continuum had been so widely publicized, it was difficult for Nathaniel to maintain control of the country and Dreadknight attempted a coup that was thwarted by Silver Sable and Spider-Man. (Spider-Man Unlimited #16)

Nathaniel ruled the country in Doom's absence and seemed to be recognized as only the head of a transitional government. Unfortunately, the mutant known as Stryfe unexpectedly landed his ship on Castle Doom (X-Man #45) and forcibly took control of the country, causing a vast amount of destruction to nearby Doomstadt. (X-Man #46-47, Cable #64) Although Dr. Doom returned to his native planet (Heroes Reborn: Doom), he was prevented from returning to Latveria by the Dreaming Celestial. (Fantastic Four vol. 3 #26) Also being punished was Reed Richards, who was forced into playing the role of Dr. Doom while trapped in his armor. (Fantastic Four vol. 3 #26) It appears that Reed was accepted as the sovereign of Latveria, but it wasn't long before Victor reclaimed his homeland. (Fantastic Four vol. 3 #31) Curiously, once doing so, he promptly left for Counter Earth, ruling Latveria only by proxy. At some undetermined point, Doom returned to Earth as part of a plan to destroy the Fantastic Four. Indeed, he was nearly successful, but ultimately was thrown into Hell. (Fantastic Four vol. 3 #500) Shortly afterwards, Reed took it upon himself to take control of Latveria in order to prevent other nations from stepping into the power vacuum and gaining control of Doom's arsenal. While he was successful briefly, the international community (led by the United Nations and S.H.I.E.L.D.) removed him from power. No formal charges against Reed or the Fantastic Four were filed, but that was at the expense of Reed having to turn all of his patents over to the United Nations.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Good effort Auntie, but all that did was remind me of the glory that is DOOM and of how hollow this Lex-Doom is gonna be.