What makes America right?

[The Democrat]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?

[The Lumberjack]

Me.

[terry78]

Watch Team America....it shall provide all the answers you may need. Seriously, I think because we have the whole, "we're the most advanced, prosperous superpower" thing going, we just have a very get-the-job-done type of attitude about everything.

[The Democrat]

neither of those answer the question though. I'm asking a serious question. What makes America right? What allows us to walk the moral high ground?

[Spider-Nerd]

There is nothing wrong with america that cannot be fixed with what is right in america-bill clinton.

[Doomed_hero]

Well we are not right in the world right now. Just cause we have a way of living, doesn't mean we sould tell others how to live. We can be to cowboy like at times. I love this country, but it is far from fully free, Reilgion still has to much power, gay people can't get married, and we have no real chioce if we want to go to war or not. I think that is peoples problem, they think we are always right. But Vietnam and Iraq I don't think we where right on, and it is not are job to tell all the other countries what to do with there countries.

[The Democrat]

There is nothing wrong with america that cannot be fixed with what is right in america-bill clinton.
It's easy to quote someone but I'm asking the question: What makes us right? Why can we strut around on the moral high ground?

I happen to agree with that particular quote but it doesn't answer the question.

What gives America the right to police the world?

[V1P3Rt3Ch]

America is not right, nor wrong. We are the same as every country is this world.

[bored]

America is not right, nor wrong. We are the same as every country is this world.

try convincing some people of that.

[The Democrat]

America is not right, nor wrong. We are the same as every country is this world.
Very nice, you didn't answer the question. What gives America the right to police the world? Why do we hold the moral high ground?

It shouldn't be this hard to answer. If we can invade countries at will then there must be a reason. Saddam Hussein was a bad man. Why though do we have the right to make the decision on whether he stayed or left? The question isn't this so don't answer it I'm not intrested in it. I'm interested in the question of: What makes America right?

[The Democrat]

Well we are not right in the world right now. Just cause we have a way of living, doesn't mean we sould tell others how to live. We can be to cowboy like at times. I love this country, but it is far from fully free, Reilgion still has to much power, gay people can't get married, and we have no real chioce if we want to go to war or not. I think that is peoples problem, they think we are always right. But Vietnam and Iraq I don't think we where right on, and it is not are job to tell all the other countries what to do with there countries.
I firmly believe that we have a way of living that should be spread through out the world. We should be adapting democracy to fit the Middle East mentality. Freedom comes in small doses. I'm not saying that we need to export our foolish culture, they have always been smarter culturally I'm saying we need to spread freedom.

[Paradoxium]

....because of history, this "aspect" has been transmitted through generations and partly due to high social solidarity.

[Fred_Fury]

Because foreigners are wrong.

[Doomed_hero]

Ya, but I don't belive in going into other countries and saying ,"Get rid of your WMD and act like America", seeing how we keeps WMD are self.

[Fred_Fury]

Ya, but I don't belive in going into other countries and saying ,"Get rid of your WMD and act like America", seeing how we keeps WMD are self.Thats because you have no clue whats going on. There are reasons countries cant have WMDs. Take North Korea for instance, they signed the NPT, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. They are not allowed to own nukes. Under the NPT only 5 nations are allowed to have nukes, they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPT

The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) is a treaty, opened for signature on July 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_1), 1968 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968), to which the vast majority of states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State) (189) are parties, restricting the possession of nuclear weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon) to the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) (signed 1968), UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) (1968), France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) (1992), Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union) (1968), and People's Republic of China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China) (1992) (the five states which possessed nuclear weapons when the treaty was adopted, which are also the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council).) Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) has since replaced the Soviet Union as one of the five original signatories. These 5 NWS (Nuclear Weapons States) agree not to transfer nuclear weapons technology to other states, and the non-NWS state parties agree not to seek to develop nuclear weapons.


Iraq, Iran, etc have also signed the treaty. They are not allowed to have nukes.


Iraq also signed a disarmament treaty after losing the first gulf war, which required them to disarm.

Iraq lost
USA won
Iraq had to sign a disarmament treaty
The USA didnt

Therfore USA could have WMD's, and Iraq couldnt. Dont like it? Tough ****.

[Doomed_hero]

Well thats great, so we are just hypicrites then. And North Korea does have Nukes.

[Fred_Fury]

How are we hypocrites?

And yes, we know North Korea has nukes, and the U.N is too pansie to do anything about it. Once again its up to the USA to keep up the rule of law.

And foreigners wonder why we police the world... its because no one else will.

Its a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

[Doomed_hero]

Even with treaties, just the fact that we keep Nukes but go around the world and say we "we can have them but you can't" seems hypocritical to me.

[The Democrat]

Thats because you have no clue whats going on. There are reasons countries cant have WMDs. Take North Korea for instance, they signed the NPT, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. They are not allowed to own nukes. Under the NPT only 5 nations are allowed to have nukes, they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPT

Iraq, Iran, etc have also signed the treaty. They are not allowed to have nukes.


Iraq also signed a disarmament treaty after losing the first gulf war, which required them to disarm.

Iraq lost
USA won
Iraq had to sign a disarmament treaty
The USA didnt

Therfore USA could have WMD's, and Iraq couldnt. Dont like it? Tough ****.
First off everytime you respond you give the right wing a bad name. Secondly I'm sure that Doomed_Hero understands the treaties but since when has that stopped anybody (namely America) from breaking them in their own self-intrest. Thirdly you still haven't answered the question. What makes America right?

[The Democrat]

....because of history, this "aspect" has been transmitted through generations and partly due to high social solidarity.
That certainly is how the impression came about but its a small part of the answer. Think about it. What makes America right? Why do we hold the moral high ground? What makes us think we can do whatever the hell we want?

[The Democrat]

Because foreigners are wrong.
Okay I'll bite, why are foreigners wrong?:rolleyes:

[Fred_Fury]

USA is right because we do what is right. We fight the commies, the nazis, the terrorists. USA is a free democratic nation. We dont murder 80 million of our own people like the commies, we dont try to take over our neighbors and **** like the nazis, we dont target civilians and murder those who are not the same faith as us as the terrorists do. We believe everyone has the god given right to freedom as is stated in the constitution. We believe all men are created equal.

If you dont think freedom, democracy, and equality are right, then you are wrong.

[The Democrat]

USA is right because we do what is right. We fight the commies, the nazis, the terrorists. USA is a free democratic nation. We dont murder 80 million of our own people like the commies, we dont try to take over our neighbors and **** like the nazis, we dont target civilians and murder those who are not the same faith as us as the terrorists do. We believe everyone has the god given right to freedom as is stated in the constitution.

If you dont think freedom and democracy are right then you are wrong.
First what is wrong with the commies and Nazis and how do you define terrorists? Secondly if your so free try shouting "Theatre" in a crowded fire--Abbie Hoffman. Your right instead we focus on killing millions abroad. Yet we retain our morality? Why? Thirdly you've got to be kidding me, we daily try to take over our neighbors. We don't target civilians so its coincedence that 3,000 civilians have died in Iraq? We don't murder people of other faiths, anymore. I never said that I didn't think that freedom and democracy weren't right. I never said anything about freedom and democracy. So your answer is essentially that we kill the people who kill the people?

[Fred_Fury]

If you dont see anything wrong with the commies and nazis, you obviously dont understand the concept of freedom and democracy.

We believe Freedom and Democracy isnt a priviledge, its a god given right. And it just so happens that most of the world agrees with us. Thats what makes us right. Foreign dictatorships and the like who oppress their citizens are bad. We no like them. They must change.

No, we dont target civilians. If we did, the number of civilian casualties in Iraq would be around 13,000,000 not 3,000 thats for damn sure. If the USA took up the tactics of terrorists, all Iraqis would be dead or converted.

and yes, we kill people who kill people. Is there something wrong with that? Are you some kind of naive pacifist? If someone tried to kill you, and the cops shot him, would you be mad at the cops? Snap out of your naive pacifist dream and wake the hell up and smell the freaking coffee.

[The Democrat]

If you dont see anything wrong with the commies and nazis, you obviously dont understand the concept of freedom and democracy.

We believe Freedom and Democracy isnt a priviledge, its a god given right. Thats what makes us right. Foreign dictatorships and the like who oppress their citizens are bad. We no like them. They must change.

No, we dont target civilians. If we did, the number of civilian casualties in Iraq would be around 3,000,000 not 3,000 thats for damn sure. If the USA took up the tactics of terrorists, all Iraqis would be dead or converted.

and yes, we kill people who kill people. Is there something wrong with that? Are you some kind of naive pacifist?
Ok explain this to me like I'm a three year old. What is wrong with commies and Nazis? I understand freedom and Democracy and I don't agree with Commies and Nazis I just don't get what makes you think that our opposition to them years ago makes us right today?

We do target civilians. We carpet bomb, we call our bombs precise yet they only strike with in a mile of an area. It is a functional targeting of civilians.

There is something wrong with that. It's not moral. I'm not a niave pacifist, far from a pacifist. Life just isn't stark black and whites as your foolish mind seems to think.

[Majin Boo]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?
we are the good guys according to us, not to the rest of the world.
That's how evil doers have seen themselves thru out history.
I would say, right now, we are the bad guys.

[The Democrat]

we are the good guys according to us, not to the rest of the world.
That's how evil doers have seen themselves thru out history.
I would say, right now, we are the bad guys.
I would agree with the first part but not the second.

The question remains people. If it is this hard do we really have the right to do any of this? Come on I want a real answer not Fred_Fury's stupidity/rhetoric I want a real discussion on the complexities of our global empire that we've built here.

[Hobgoblin]

Very nice, you didn't answer the question. What gives America the right to police the world? Why do we hold the moral high ground?

It shouldn't be this hard to answer. If we can invade countries at will then there must be a reason. Saddam Hussein was a bad man. Why though do we have the right to make the decision on whether he stayed or left? The question isn't this so don't answer it I'm not intrested in it. I'm interested in the question of: What makes America right?

I think it may be a "might makes right" thing. We are the worlds only remaining military superpower. There is a lot of crap that goes on in the world and no one else has the power to stop it. The Soviets used to be able to do some world policing, but not anymore. The Brits and French cant anymore. Plus, I think we just have a "We're the best!" attitude. We have fought in many very large and deadly wars and have been the deciding factor in thier victory every time, except in Vietnam. We have a lot of militaristic pride. So we think:

1. There is a lot of injustice in the world.
2. No one else can stop it.
3. We have a long history of winning wars and freeing people from despots and dangit, we're not going to stop now!

I'm not saying its right to always think that way, but thats the mentality. Might makes right.

[XPunisherman88]

Ok explain this to me like I'm a three year old. What is wrong with commies and Nazis? I understand freedom and Democracy and I don't agree with Commies and Nazis I just don't get what makes you think that our opposition to them years ago makes us right today?

We do target civilians. We carpet bomb, we call our bombs precise yet they only strike with in a mile of an area. It is a functional targeting of civilians.

There is something wrong with that. It's not moral. I'm not a niave pacifist, far from a pacifist. Life just isn't stark black and whites as your foolish mind seems to think.

the US hasn't carpet bombed a country since Vietnam, that's why we invented smart bombs, to kill who we wanted and not to kill the ones we didn't.

[The Anti-Hype]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?
You think you're the good guys and the terrorists are bad guys.

The terrorits think they are the good guys and you are the bad guys.

So its your own cultural bias that tells you.

[14k london spider]

Very nice, you didn't answer the question. What gives America the right to police the world? Why do we hold the moral high ground?

It shouldn't be this hard to answer. If we can invade countries at will then there must be a reason. Saddam Hussein was a bad man. Why though do we have the right to make the decision on whether he stayed or left? The question isn't this so don't answer it I'm not intrested in it. I'm interested in the question of: What makes America right?

my answer is America does not have the right. That's why it bothers me when Kerry gets attacked for mentioning a 'global test' then saying he will never take away america's right to unilaterally or pre emptively strike. I would argue america doesn't have that right. To defend itself, yes. To unilaterally invade, no. That's why the UN and security council and all those pesky geneva conventions were set up - so the horrors of WW2 were not repeated. And since no one nation has any more moral claim than the other, a body which comprises an equality of nations that accord to those conventions is the only body that has legitimacy when it comes to those decisions.

[maxwell's demon]

reality television, aka "the news".

[The Democrat]

the US hasn't carpet bombed a country since Vietnam, that's why we invented smart bombs, to kill who we wanted and not to kill the ones we didn't.
Really we haven't carpet bombed eh. I remember we specifically carpet bombed Tora Bora. We definately carpet bombed in the first gulf war. The problem is that they've changed the definiton now.

[SuperFerret]

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."

But, seriously, there are no "good guys" and "bad guys", everybody has aspects that make them seem "good" to some, and "bad" to others.

Example; George W. Bush thinks he made the right choice to go into Iraq, many agree, and many others do not.

[The Democrat]

You think you're the good guys and the terrorists are bad guys.

The terrorits think they are the good guys and you are the bad guys.

So its your own cultural bias that tells you.
Ok thats a little bit on the obvious side. What gives us the cultural belief that we are the "good guys"? What gives us that right?

[The Anti-Hype]

Ok thats a little bit on the obvious side. What gives us the cultural belief that we are the "good guys"? What gives us that right?
Well the media representation of america isnt it. Their language is probably the best example I can think of. "Heroes" is often used alot when mentioning the troops in Iraq (not that Im saying they were or werent hereos) but that terminlology socialises you to thinking that you're the good guys.

And you know, the same thing happens in other countries agaisnt America so really no ones right.

[bored]

what makes us "right" is our intentions. so many people think that the things that we're doing need to be done, and they need to be done in the manner that we're currently going about them, that they just say that we're right. obviously, that doesn't make it true.

as for Fury's statement that "we kill commies and nazis", we aren't exactly the only ones who've done that. france and england and the soviet union all killed nazis too, and, despite Fury's objections to non-Americans, they were all foreigners. and we aren't the only country to oppose communism, either.

[Outsiderzedge]

"might makes right" basicly sums it up. Not just military might but political might and economic might. We do what we want because we can. Who can stop us.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" and we don't hesitate to use that stick.

[Isildur´s Heir]

What makes America right?

Nothing.....because America is not right.
Right now, America is nothing more than the bully outside the school.
America is bigger and meaner and so it´s their way or the highway.
Of course, some Americans are incapable of seeing this.....they are incapable of seeing the big picture...

[Fred_Fury]

What makes America right?

Nothing.....because America is not right.
Right now, America is nothing more than the bully outside the school.
America is bigger and meaner and so it´s their way or the highway.
Of course, some Americans are incapable of seeing this.....they are incapable of seeing the big picture...
And liberals wonder why we question their patriotism.

Leave the USA traitor.

[The Anti-Hype]

And liberals wonder why we question their patriotism.

Leave the USA traitor.
I agree with Heir's post :o

[The Democrat]

And liberals wonder why we question their patriotism.

Leave the USA traitor.
Way to prove his point. Oh and if anyone here doesn't deserve the freedoms allowed by our nation its you. You have no right to call someone a traitor for speaking their minds. It defy's the entire history of the country. It's almost as if you've had a frontal lobodamy that makes you incapable of real thought.

[Fred_Fury]

I agree with Heir's post :o
http://www.harvsnews.com/warpics/flagoffend.jpg



As I said earlier, all the anti-americans support Kerry. Why is that?

[Fred_Fury]

Way to prove his point. Oh and if anyone here doesn't deserve the freedoms allowed by our nation its you. You have no right to call someone a traitor for speaking their minds.
Actually I do have the right, its called freedom of speech. Go read the bill of rights.


It defy's the entire history of the country. It's almost as if you've had a frontal lobodamy that makes you incapable of real thought.
Its almost as if you liberals hate america... oh wait, you do.

[bluejake01]

Actually I do have the right, its called freedom of speech. Go read the bill of rights.



Its almost as if you liberals hate america... oh wait, you do.

Have you ever picked up an American History book? Honestly you sound like an ignorant, hateful, redneck. To accuse someone of a crime is not a right. To accuse someone of a crime that is punishable by death, with no supporting evidence, or basis in fact is a criminal act. You should watch what you say little boy.

[14k london spider]

And liberals wonder why we question their patriotism.

Leave the USA traitor.

This is what I don't get. Why does it make him a traitor to have the opinion that US foreign policy is wrong? What is he being a traitor too? It surely can't be american notions of democracy and liberty and freedom of speech, because he's being true to them in expressing himself. So what does that leave? Is he a traitor to the Bush administration and it's pre-emptive policies? Maybe he is...but Bush isn't synonomous with America. So it seems blind devotion to a republican president = patriotism, therefore anyone who doesn't like Bush, or disagrees with you is unpatriotic and traitor. Someone else said it best: you are officially the biggest idiot on the hype.

[Fred_Fury]

According to liberals, nothing is anti-american. Wake up and smell the coffee libs.

[The Anti-Hype]

You've watched too many movies imo Fred Fury. America doesnt always do things right. Saying that doesnt make anyone Anti American. Surely it makes them more patriotic since they would rather live in a country that does things right ??

[Fred_Fury]

If you dont like America, leave. Its that simple libs.

Love it or leave it.

What have we dont thats oh so evil? Sounds to me like you liberals have been brainwashed by anti-US propaganda.

[14k london spider]

[QUOTE=Fred_Fury


As I said earlier, all the anti-americans support Kerry. Why is that?[/QUOTE]

Can someone explain to me why it is anti-american to disagree with Bush's strike-first foreign policy? This is as stupid as saying democrats are the same as communists - or republicans are the same as fascists.

[14k london spider]

According to liberals, nothing is anti-american. Wake up and smell the coffee libs.

That's not an answer, please explain how being against Bush's pre-emptive foreign policy (a policy which has never been practiced in america's entire history) is anti american?

[Outsiderzedge]

I think Fred is just trolling... god I hope he is...

[Fred_Fury]

Can someone explain to me why it is anti-american to disagree with Bush's strike-first foreign policy? This is as stupid as saying democrats are the same as communists - or republicans are the same as fascists.he's not anti-american for disagreeing with Bush. He's anti-American for hating America.



Its funny how liberals consider nothing Anti-American. Michael Moore claiming the enemy is the good guy and America is the bad guy isnt anti-american according to liberals. gimme a break.

[The Anti-Hype]

If you dont like America, leave. Its that simple libs.

Love it or leave it.

.
So disagreeing with American Policy means you hate America?

You're confusing American politics and the American culture together.

[Outsiderzedge]

and it should be love it or change it, we live in a democracy remember?

[The Democrat]

Actually I do have the right, its called freedom of speech. Go read the bill of rights.



Its almost as if you liberals hate america... oh wait, you do.
The right of Freedom of speech is predicated on the ability of all people to respectfully disagree. You have never shown that you even understand the word respect. Ironic that you would even plead the first when you would gladly piss on the bill of rights if given the chance.

I love my country I'd gladly die for it. I don't see you dodging bullets over there in Iraq. If you support the war so much why don't you go fight it. If the nation ever needed me to go fight I would. If Kerry wins I'm seriously looking at joining the Marines. I'd gladly fight to fix the problems created by you people. DON'T YOU DARE QUESTION MY PATRIOTISM. YOU LIVING PIECE OF ****.

[14k london spider]

If you dont like America, leave. Its that simple libs.

Love it or leave it.

What have we dont thats oh so evil? Sounds to me like you liberals have been brainwashed by anti-US propaganda.

yes, everything is simple to you because you're simple minded, everything is black and white because you're too narrow minded to except or even examine different shades. You share exactly the same mindset in your unthinking obedience as islamic fundamentalists.

[Fred_Fury]

Calling Americans ignorant and bullies isnt disagreeing with policy, its down right anti-american rhetoric.

[Fred_Fury]

yes, everything is simple to you because you're simple minded, everything is black and white because you're too narrow minded to except or even examine different shades. You share exactly the same mindset in your unthinking obedience as islamic fundamentalists.
You are the simple minded fool brainwashed by anti-US propaganda.

Tell me liberals, what have we done thats so bad?

[14k london spider]

he's not anti-american for disagreeing with Bush. He's anti-American for hating America.



Its funny how liberals consider nothing Anti-American. Michael Moore claiming the enemy is the good guy and America is the bad guy isnt anti-american according to liberals. gimme a break.

where did he say he hated america? He basically said he didn't agree with its current foreign policy? See, you draw your own skewed conclusions because you're narrow minded.

and I'd love to see you point to where moore said we are the bad guys and the enemy are the good guys. I've heard him say the people rising up in iraq aren't foreign nationals or terrorists but average people sick of America being there - which means we can't win. Thats coroborated by alot of evidence, soldiers reports on the ground about who they are fighting, and historical precedent.

[The Anti-Hype]

Fred Fury, if you dont mind my asking, what age are you? That isnt said in a discriminative manner, I would like to know.

[The Democrat]

If you dont like America, leave. Its that simple libs.

Love it or leave it.

What have we dont thats oh so evil? Sounds to me like you liberals have been brainwashed by anti-US propaganda.
Do you even know what America is?

We attacked a country that we didn't have the right too. We have consistantly demolished cultures that differ from ours. Thats not the America I grew up loving. Thats not the America my LIBERAL father fought for in Gulf War 1. Thats not the America my LIBERAL grand fathers and great uncles fought for in Vietnam. It may be what the country was but its not why they fought.

[Fred_Fury]

Question to Liberals: Do you want America to win this war?

[Abaddon]

Well according to Bush we are the good guys because we fight "evil".The evil he speaks ofnot only includes murderers,and threats to humanity,but also everyone who disagrees with our political beliefs.

[bluejake01]

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. "- Thomas Jefferson

The founders of our country recognized the value of questioning those in power. Any climate where it is considered treachery to do anything but follow the president blindly is unconstitutional, immoral and un-American. Fred fury is as anti-American as they come.

[Fred_Fury]

Do you even know what America is?
I know exactly what it is, do you?


We attacked a country that we didn't have the right too.
Says who? According to U.N resolution 1441 we had the right to use force in Iraq.


We have consistantly demolished cultures that differ from ours.
bull****. What they buy our mcdonalds and listen to our music? thats evil? LOL!


Thats not the America I grew up loving. Thats not the America my LIBERAL father fought for in Gulf War 1. Thats not the America my LIBERAL grand fathers and great uncles fought for in Vietnam. It may be what the country was but its not why they fought.

Then leave America traitor.

[Outsiderzedge]

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. "- Thomas Jefferson

The founders of our country recognized the value of questioning those in power. Any climate where it is considered treachery to do anything but follow the president blindly is unconstitutional, immoral and un-American. Fred fury is as anti-American as they come.

:up:

[The Democrat]

Question to Liberals: Do you want America to win this war? Which War?

The answer is yes. I want my country to win the war. I don't want us to ever go to war as a first effort. I don't want my family and friends dying for mistakes. I won't fight for a mistake. I will gladly drop out of school to fight for my country, though. To defend your right be chicken hawk. **** you.

[Fred_Fury]

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. "- Thomas Jefferson

The founders of our country recognized the value of questioning those in power. Any climate where it is considered treachery to do anything but follow the president blindly is unconstitutional, immoral and un-American. Fred fury is as anti-American as they come.How is calling Americans ignorant and America evil questioning those in power? You liberals fail to even recognize the fact that anti-americanism exists.

Perhaps you just cant see the forest from the trees.

[Fred_Fury]

Which War?
The fact that even have to ask "which war" speaks volumes about you.

[14k london spider]

You are the simple minded fool brainwashed by anti-US propaganda.

Tell me liberals, what have we done thats so bad?
Well how about the war? Americans—including Bush’s critics—seem blissfully unaware of the similarities between the U.S. invasion of Iraq and Vietnam’s 1978 invasion of Cambodia: Hanoi’s justification for its invasion was that it was saving the Cambodian people from a genocidal regime and protecting its borders. The United States roundly condemned the invasion, but Vietnam’s justifications were at least as sound as U.S. justifications for the invasion of Iraq.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

How is calling Americans ignorant and America evil questioning those in power? You liberals fail to even recognize the fact that anti-americanism exists.

Perhaps you just cant see the forest from the trees.
I agree with Fred. Liberals don't really think things through IMO.

[bluejake01]

If you dont like America, leave. Its that simple libs.

Love it or leave it.

What have we dont thats oh so evil? Sounds to me like you liberals have been brainwashed by anti-US propaganda.

You are dense...I LOVE America...George W. Bush is not America...America is her people and their ideals of truth, freedom and democracy. Bush's actions are un-American, they do not hold up to the ideals set forth in the constitution. He has limited our freedom for safety, he has waged a useless war based on lies, he has squandered valuable resources and lives, while ignoring the real problem. There are terroist cels in EVERY nation of the world, including America. Why are we killing innocent people, and sending our men and women in to die under false pretense? How is questioning any of that un-patriotic? It is patriotic to question our "leaders".

[Constantine J.]

You liberals fail to even recognize the fact that anti-americanism exists.



and you fail to recognize your own stupidity.

[Abaddon]

Just like Bush really thought through his plans for Iraq and the war on terror.:rolleyes:

[Outsiderzedge]

How is calling Americans ignorant and America evil questioning those in power? You liberals fail to even recognize the fact that anti-americanism exists.

Perhaps you just cant see the forest from the trees.

Perhaps because it is those in power who control the current interests and actions of America?

[bluejake01]

How is calling Americans ignorant and America evil questioning those in power? You liberals fail to even recognize the fact that anti-americanism exists.

Perhaps you just cant see the forest from the trees.

When have I EVER called Americans ignorant or evil? I said you are ignorant, and frankly you are. Also...I am not a liberal *******, grow the hell up and come back when your testicals have dropped kid.

[Alonsovich]

There only one solution for these things: a massive nuclear blast that destroys Earth. Then this discussion, terrorism, wars and hunger will end... :o

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Just like Bush really thought through his plans for Iraq and the war on terror.:rolleyes:
This is why I don't like to get involved in these things. Words are said, fueds are started, and people start to dislike one another. I'm just going to step out and that's it.

[Fred_Fury]

Its funny how someone can go out and say "America is evil! Americans are stupid! Support the enemy!" and if you call him anti-american, liberals will bash you because "he's not anti-american, he's just questioning America's policy!" :rolleyes:

[14k london spider]

I know exactly what it is, do you?



Says who? According to U.N resolution 1441 we had the right to use force in Iraq.



.

The vast majority of leading INDEPENDANT international law experts say the war was illegal despite those resollutions as it needs to be in self defence or with express security council approval.

[Constantine J.]

Okay, Fred Fury.....Fine...why do you think that liberals "Hate" America?
I want to hear your thoughts on this.
No name calling...think it through.

[bluejake01]

Its funny how someone can go out and say "America is evil! Americans are stupid! Support the enemy!" and if you call him anti-american, liberals will bash you because "he's not anti-american, he's just questioning America's policy!" :rolleyes:

NO ONE HERE SAID THAT YOU DENSE LITTLE MONKEY!

Personally I hate Michael Moore, I don't think it's fair to say America is evil, but the actions of our president are wrong. They do not hold up to the ideals set forth by our founding fathers. I can see why the rest of the world has an unfavorable opinion of us...it's because of people like you.

[Paradoxium]

Suppose, if some left-wing communist (or whatever you want to call him) nutcase got elected into the American office. You as a Bush supporter disagree with his policies. But by disagreeing him, you hate America. Therefore you are a traitor and anti-American.

:up:

[Abaddon]

Its funny how someone can go out and say "America is evil! Americans are stupid! Support the enemy!" and if you call him anti-american, liberals will bash you because "he's not anti-american, he's just questioning America's policy!" :rolleyes:


Who said we should support our enemies?You are only hearing what you want to hear,and not what people are actually saying.There are many who disgaree with the current administration,that doesnt make them ant-american.A difference of opinion does not mean one doesnt have the same appreciation for the country.

[Outsiderzedge]

Even if liberals did hate america, they are within their rights to do so as long as they do so peaceably.

America has never been and should never be about "Love it or leave it."

[bluejake01]

Even if liberals did hate america, they are within their rights to do so as long as they do so peaceably.

America has never been and should never be about "Love it or leave it."

I love you...wanna have a non-sexual relationship? ;)

[Fred_Fury]

look at these and tell me how they ARENT anti-american.

http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

[Paradoxium]

Wonder if Fred_Fury is related to AmericanPatriot or something.

[bluejake01]

look at these and tell me how they ARENT anti-american.

http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/


Oh...I get it, you think that a few, a very small vocal minority of nutjobs are representative of everyone that has a problem with our foriegn policy. You need serious help...just so you know...NONE of us in this thread, are in THOSE pictures. No one has said anything like those FEW radicals.

[The Democrat]

I know exactly what it is, do you?



Says who? According to U.N resolution 1441 we had the right to use force in Iraq.



bull****. What they buy our mcdonalds and listen to our music? thats evil? LOL!




Then leave America traitor.
I'm not sure you do. What is America Fred_Fury?

According to Kofi Annan it was illegal.

I never heard of Sitting Bull buying Mcdonalds. Your confusing our culture with our goverment you twit. I never heard of Pancho Villa bangin' out to Ted Nuget. Evil is systematically destroying a culture because it stands in your way to obtaining natural resources. Evil is systematically murdering tens of thousands of native Americans. Evil is systematically supporting countries that continue to murder their people. Evil is propping up regimes that murder and destroy their own people. Yeah we got rid of Hussien but our support for countries like Saudi Arabia is even more disgusting.

[Constantine J.]

look at these and tell me how they ARENT anti-american.

http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

so then...liberals are anti-semitic also?

[The Democrat]

Its funny how someone can go out and say "America is evil! Americans are stupid! Support the enemy!" and if you call him anti-american, liberals will bash you because "he's not anti-american, he's just questioning America's policy!" :rolleyes:
Show one quote where anyone said that. SHOW ONE QUOTE. Prove it link us to a thread. SHOW US ONE QUOTE.


Oh are you ever going to go over to Iraq and fight for the war you support?

[bluejake01]

so then...liberals are anti-semitic also?

And nudists.

[The Democrat]

Then leave America traitor.
I will leave America when hell freezes over. When will you defend it? When will you put your life on the line for it?

FRED_FURY, CHICKEN HAWK FOR LIFE

[The Democrat]

The fact that even have to ask "which war" speaks volumes about you.
There are wars that I don't think we should win. I don't think we should win the war on certain drugs.

[WeaponZ2]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?
Ummmm...........a big ego mabe?

[Majin Boo]

And liberals wonder why we question their patriotism.

Leave the USA traitor.

hello mr nazi.

[The Democrat]

look at these and tell me how they ARENT anti-american.

http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

Those are anti-american liberal extremist signs but this is an anti-american conservative extremist sign...






http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ee/180px-Oklahoma_City_bombing.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oklahoma_City_bombing.jpg)

[The Democrat]

FRED_FURY IS A CHICKEN HAWK!!!


Will you fight in the war that you support? Will you join up and go fight in Iraq?


Are you afraid to answer the question.

[The Democrat]

Ummmm...........a big ego mabe?
Yeah thats a part of the problem but why do we have such a big ego? What led to this whole problem.

[Isildur´s Heir]

And liberals wonder why we question their patriotism.

Leave the USA traitor.
Your funny kid, really funny......but, wake up and smell the roses.

First, i´m not even American.
Second, i´m not against America, never was...but i´m against blind people that only look at what is happening in their own backyard and not at the big picture.
Know anyone like that? :rolleyes:

[The Democrat]

According to liberals, nothing is anti-american. Wake up and smell the coffee libs.
hmmm... I smell columbian...you are anti-American.

[14k london spider]

Yeah thats a part of the problem but why do we have such a big ego? What led to this whole problem.

Dunno but i read this once and guy's on to something:


The need to assert American exceptionalism is the keynote of American political culture. It resonates in the constant boasting that the United States is “the greatest democracy in the world,” a claim that was made even when the United States trailed behind most Western democracies by its own definition of what a democracy should be.[He's refering to a lack of universal suffrage up to '65]
.........
Nevertheless, Americans’ stubborn belief in American exceptionalism is indeed exceptional. Arguably, many countries suffer from a similar delusion, but what makes the case of the United States unique is the strength of the consensus that surrounds the myth and the poverty of the domestic debate about it.
Island nations tend to have a blinkered view, and the United States has developed as an island nation—the Atlantic separated it from Europe, and a sea of racism separated it from Latin America. From the outset, this young nation of immigrants who lacked the bond of centuries of a common history has felt the need to define itself by stressing its difference from those who stayed behind, the peoples of Europe. Therefore, a key ingredient of the American melting pot has been the belief in American exceptionalism.
In Western Europe, powerful groups—Socialist and Communist parties, for example—have questioned the very nature of their countries’ society. Their press, which is read by millions, the many prominent intellectuals in their ranks and their numerous representatives in parliament have challenged the foundations of their countries’ domestic systems and their foreign policies. In the United States, however, the debate has been much more narrow; it has dealt with the merits of a particular policy but rarely with the very nature of American society and the foundations of its policies. Those few who have wanted to probe deeper have been marginalized. The United States’ economic and military successes have reinforced the belief in American exceptionalism—power has been equated to virtue—and the keynote has remained: America may make mistakes, but its intentions are always good.

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/pubaffairs/publications/saisphere/winter03/gleijeses.html

[bored]

this thread has turned into 'bash Fred_Fury', and i love it. it's been along time since there has been such a fool on the Hype. The Democrat, i think you've done more to embarass him in this thread than anyone has, and i commend you for it. i don't know what is wrong with this guy. i also wouldn't be surprised if the pix from that 'rally' that he put the link up to were completely staged by some idiotic right-wingers. notice the caption that says a man is dressed like a Hammas suicide bomber, yet all he's doing is wearing the flag of a Middle-Eastern country. i am almost tempted to use proper capitalization when laughing at him, but not quite. his charges stem from generalizations and out-and-out bull****, and can not even find a simple response to TD's charges of being a chicken-hawk. you may have noticed he seemed to give up on trying to respond about a page ago. Fred_Fury, if you are still reading this, look at the second phrase in my avatar. you'd do good to think about it.

[cryptic name]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?

because we have to be, if we see our selves as the bad guys or wrong then we would crumble. you can't afford to look at things from the perspectives of other countries, we are right according to our standards and those are the only standards that should matter to us.

[The Democrat]

because we have to be, if we see our selves as the bad guys or wrong then we would crumble. you can't afford to look at things from the perspectives of other countries, we are right according to our standards and those are the only standards that should matter to us.
Thats an intresting way of looking at it. What I'm really trying to get at though is specifics.

[The Democrat]

what makes us "right" is our intentions. so many people think that the things that we're doing need to be done, and they need to be done in the manner that we're currently going about them, that they just say that we're right. obviously, that doesn't make it true.

as for Fury's statement that "we kill commies and nazis", we aren't exactly the only ones who've done that. france and england and the soviet union all killed nazis too, and, despite Fury's objections to non-Americans, they were all foreigners. and we aren't the only country to oppose communism, either.
Well the road to hell is paved in good intentions. I believe that we do need to do something but rolling in with our tanks, firing missles with in an area of chance as a target, dropping bombs on houses simply because they have alot of cars parked out front, should never be the first choice. There are plenty of appropriate ways to go about it.

Yeah well Fury is a moron and a CHICKEN HAWK. I respect his right to defend this war but I don't respect his refusal to fight it himself. I can guarantee that if I supported a war and I thought it was appropriate I would join up and fight it.

[Fred_Fury]

I'm joining the Air Force after I finish college. Its quite funny when a liberal candy ass chicken ***** calls you a chicken hawk.

My older brother is currently in the US Army.

[bluejake01]

I'm joining the Air Force after I finish college. Its quite funny when a liberal candy ass chicken ***** calls you a chicken hawk.

My older brother is currently in the US Army.

You are so anti-American. How dare you worry about your education when our country is in mortal danger? How can you sit by and watch as we defend our homeland from the horrible attacks of...oh wait, Iraq didn't attack us.

[The Democrat]

I'm joining the Air Force after I finish college. Its quite funny when a liberal candy ass chicken ***** calls you a chicken hawk.

My older brother is currently in the US Army.
Really drop out now and go join. Don't wait a single day, this war needs fresh meat and I'm sick of friends and neighbors dying for it. Go ahead join now. I'd drop out today and join if I agreed with the war.

My younger brother is forward recon in Iraq right now. I don't go to sleep a night that I don't think about him and why he's fighting. I want you to take his place I would sleep easier at night knowing your life would be replacing his. My brother is a patriot and a great American who is also voting for Kerry.

You are a CHICKEN HAWK JOIN NOW OR YOU DON'T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON.

[TLATOANI]

no one in this world is the good guy no one!!!!

because everyone has his one oppinnion

[FlameHead]

This is a wonderfully informative thread. I finally get an insight into how America feels about themselves. I wonder a whole lot about your nation and the people reside there. I wonder how different it really is.

This is a great question to ask yourself. Wonderful thread folks.

[The Democrat]

This is a wonderfully informative thread. I finally get an insight into how America feels about themselves. I wonder a whole lot about your nation and the people reside there. I wonder how different it really is.

This is a great question to ask yourself. Wonderful thread folks.
The question is actually what creates the perception that many (Fred_Fury) Americans hold that we have moral authority over the world.

[The Democrat]

no one in this world is the good guy no one!!!!

because everyone has his one oppinnion
Thats really not the question. The question is what creates the perception that we are the good guys.

[Outsiderzedge]

Alot of americans believe in their government and trust what the media shows them. That's where the perception comes from with citizens. As for the government itself, they are looking out for the interests of the rich and powerful. They don't care about right or wrong as long as it isn't too wrong that it causes a uproar from a large majority of the population.

Right now, they are walking a thin line.

[Abaddon]

because we have to be, if we see our selves as the bad guys or wrong then we would crumble. you can't afford to look at things from the perspectives of other countries, we are right according to our standards and those are the only standards that should matter to us.


Excellent point.:up:

[TheCheshireCat]

We were founded on Puritan ethics. :)

[Danger Mouse]

Dunno but i read this once and guy's on to something:


The need to assert American exceptionalism is the keynote of American political culture. It resonates in the constant boasting that the United States is “the greatest democracy in the world,” a claim that was made even when the United States trailed behind most Western democracies by its own definition of what a democracy should be.[He's refering to a lack of universal suffrage up to '65]
.........
Nevertheless, Americans’ stubborn belief in American exceptionalism is indeed exceptional. Arguably, many countries suffer from a similar delusion, but what makes the case of the United States unique is the strength of the consensus that surrounds the myth and the poverty of the domestic debate about it.
Island nations tend to have a blinkered view, and the United States has developed as an island nation—the Atlantic separated it from Europe, and a sea of racism separated it from Latin America. From the outset, this young nation of immigrants who lacked the bond of centuries of a common history has felt the need to define itself by stressing its difference from those who stayed behind, the peoples of Europe. Therefore, a key ingredient of the American melting pot has been the belief in American exceptionalism.
In Western Europe, powerful groups—Socialist and Communist parties, for example—have questioned the very nature of their countries’ society. Their press, which is read by millions, the many prominent intellectuals in their ranks and their numerous representatives in parliament have challenged the foundations of their countries’ domestic systems and their foreign policies. In the United States, however, the debate has been much more narrow; it has dealt with the merits of a particular policy but rarely with the very nature of American society and the foundations of its policies. Those few who have wanted to probe deeper have been marginalized. The United States’ economic and military successes have reinforced the belief in American exceptionalism—power has been equated to virtue—and the keynote has remained: America may make mistakes, but its intentions are always good.

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/pubaffairs/publications/saisphere/winter03/gleijeses.html


Very interesting article..

And the ending of it gives much food for thought:

The reality is that the gulf between Americans’ perceptions of themselves and the world’s perception of the United States is widening and that, at this moment of immense U.S. power, this widening gulf is frightening. The consequences are unforeseeable.

[The Democrat]

We were founded on Puritan ethics. :)
Things have changed since then.

[maxwell's demon]

and now they're changin' back!

head for the hills!

[litlgreendude]

i think denis leary said it the best when he said



Because we got the bombs... ya thats right nuclear ****en missiles!

[The Democrat]

and now they're changin' back!

head for the hills!
no there getting worse

[InsayneJayne]

neither of those answer the question though. I'm asking a serious question. What makes America right? What allows us to walk the moral high ground?

You're talkin to the wrong crowd if u want a straight answer

[The Democrat]

i think denis leary said it the best when he said



Because we got the bombs... ya thats right nuclear ****en missiles!
Yes Denis Leary is funny. What is also funny is people using comics to sum up your thoughts on politics.

[TheCheshireCat]

Things have changed since then.


How so? We still feel we're a "city on a hill". Sounds the same to me.

[Fred_Fury]

Is something wrong with being, or at least trying to be, the shining city upon a hill?

[The Democrat]

Is something wrong with being, or at least trying to be, the shining city upon a hill?
No!

[maxwell's demon]

what makes america right?

fred.

fred fury does.

[Fred_Fury]

Right is right.

Left is wrong.

[The Democrat]

What about Strike Hard?

[maxwell's demon]

Right is right.

Left is wrong.

robot programming command: line number 00450040302.

[maxwell's demon]

What about Strike Hard?
robot programming command: line number 00450040302b.

[The Democrat]

Right is right.

Left is wrong.
I think you've successfully proven the opposite.

[LordSimen]

People like Fred make me feel ashamed for being Republican...

Fred... Just be quiet, your "Anti-American" crap is getting old. They are just as american as anyone (cept for those who arn't American, in which case they arn't Anti-American, they're just foreign. No problem with that.)

[The Democrat]

People like Fred make me feel ashamed for being Republican...

Fred... Just be quiet, your "Anti-American" crap is getting old. They are just as american as anyone (cept for those who arn't American, in which case they arn't Anti-American, they're just foreign. No problem with that.)
See this is how republicans should be. Normal. Not freakin' nuts like Fred_Fury. I can have a real discussion with someone like you.

[LordSimen]

See this is how republicans should be. Normal. Not freakin' nuts like Fred_Fury. I can have a real discussion with someone like you.


What can I say, every side of every issue has it's insane radicals. Unfortunatly, they're usually the ones who end up on the news, just so the other side can bash them. Oh well. Happens to both sides, and is done by both sides. Probably won't change any time soon, might as well accept it.

[The Democrat]

What can I say, every side of every issue has it's insane radicals. Unfortunatly, they're usually the ones who end up on the news, just so the other side can bash them. Oh well. Happens to both sides, and is done by both sides. Probably won't change any time soon, might as well accept it.
I think I embraced it. I agree^

[LordSimen]

And onto the issue of the topic...

I must say there really is NOTHING that says we are right or wrong. Every person believes a different thing, and every person acts differently.

If person one believes that Tacos are delicious.
Then person two thinks they are disgusting, and prefers Burritos, it doesn't necessarily mean his opinion is any more right then person number one.

But why do we THINK we are right? Because it's in human nature. Religions and Nations alike all think they are right, and all think that "Good" is on their side.

In World War 2, we believed we had the side of good and God on our side (or some supreme being), and that we would prevail over the evil. In Germany, the Nazis believed they were on the side of good and were doing Gods will. Were they right or wrong? In my belief, the Nazis were the bad guys. But that doesn't neccessarily mean I am right.

There's a counter to every arguement.

Nothing is ever black and white, the world is Grey. This discussion is more of a philisophical question than a political question, and honestly I'm no Philisoph, so I couldn't answer the question any better than anyone else can.

(Excuse me if I typod... It'd Midnight and I'm tired.)

[douglas]

The U.S. is without a doubt the strongest country in the world. Since we've become so powerful from our associations with other countries, we should do what we can to help out people around the world when they need us. Everyone admits Saddam was a bad man, and that anyone giving safe haven to Al Queda (sp) should be punished, so it really was a good thing that we did something to them. Good idea, poor execution is how I see our actions after 9/11. Yes, there are other nations that need help too, such as Sudan and many others. Unfortunately we can only do so much at one time, even with the resources we have available.

People can say we should just keep our noses out of it and not spread our way of life. That's true, but what about spreading the idea of being free? Shouldn't everyone be able to have the choices that we have? What we're trying (or should be trying in my eyes) is to give people that have been oppressed the chance to do what they want to do. Get rid of the leaders who are only there for their own selfish reasons and don't give their people a chance to choose who they want to lead. And while doing this, hopefully it can help to offset the oppressing that we have done in the past during the creation of our own country.

[bluejake01]

The U.S. is without a doubt the strongest country in the world. Since we've become so powerful from our associations with other countries, we should do what we can to help out people around the world when they need us. Everyone admits Saddam was a bad man, and that anyone giving safe haven to Al Queda (sp) should be punished, so it really was a good thing that we did something to them. Good idea, poor execution is how I see our actions after 9/11. Yes, there are other nations that need help too, such as Sudan and many others. Unfortunately we can only do so much at one time, even with the resources we have available.

People can say we should just keep our noses out of it and not spread our way of life. That's true, but what about spreading the idea of being free? Shouldn't everyone be able to have the choices that we have? What we're trying (or should be trying in my eyes) is to give people that have been oppressed the chance to do what they want to do. Get rid of the leaders who are only there for their own selfish reasons and don't give their people a chance to choose who they want to lead. And while doing this, hopefully it can help to offset the oppressing that we have done in the past during the creation of our own country.

How exactly does one give choice through force? We will force you to be free?

[Nitehawk013]

Choice through force was saying " we see million suffering under a dictator. Therefore, we will use force to get rid of him and his regime to let those people find freedom" It is letting them choose there leadership and government by eliminating the boot that held them down.

[bluejake01]

Choice through force was saying " we see million suffering under a dictator. Therefore, we will use force to get rid of him and his regime to let those people find freedom" It is letting them choose there leadership and government by eliminating the boot that held them down.

Any freedom not earned shall not be appreciated. it is up to oppressed people to stand up and change from the inside. History teaches us this, experience is far more powerful than self righteous crusading.

[douglas]

Any freedom not earned shall not be appreciated. it is up to oppressed people to stand up and change from the inside. History teaches us this, experience is far more powerful than self righteous crusading.
True, but there are people who have revolted and gotten help from another country. For example, France gave us a hand when we were fighting England. There were people in Iraq and Afghanistan that were opposed to the leaderships there and we helped out. It just so happens we can offer a hell of a lot more help military-wise than anyone else in history.

[Nitehawk013]

I can somewhat agree with you there. This isn't the revolutionary war though. We earned ours, but Iraq is unable to. Fact is they have seen hundreds of thousands of there own killed for having the nerve to stand up for what they want instead of what Sadam commanded. They lost the courage to stand up on there own. Too many innocents were eliminated for wanting freedom, so they submitted to living under the boot. That is why we HAD to step in. Iraqis had broken spirits and no hope of freedom. We gave it to them by getting rid of the man who would kill them in cold blood for daring to dream of free society. Regardless of what CBS and CNN tell you, I have seen and heard from planty of Iraqis who have embraced America and are full of life now that they have a chance at freedom. The vast majority of Iraq is not trying to throw us out, rather they are supporting us. That is what makes us, America, right. the fact that we have enough honor and respect for freedom to take it to people who could never get it on there own

[Phaser]

I can somewhat agree with you there. This isn't the revolutionary war though. We earned ours, but Iraq is unable to. Fact is they have seen hundreds of thousands of there own killed for having the nerve to stand up for what they want instead of what Sadam commanded. They lost the courage to stand up on there own. Too many innocents were eliminated for wanting freedom, so they submitted to living under the boot. That is why we HAD to step in. Iraqis had broken spirits and no hope of freedom. We gave it to them by getting rid of the man who would kill them in cold blood for daring to dream of free society. Regardless of what CBS and CNN tell you, I have seen and heard from planty of Iraqis who have embraced America and are full of life now that they have a chance at freedom. The vast majority of Iraq is not trying to throw us out, rather they are supporting us. That is what makes us, America, right. the fact that we have enough honor and respect for freedom to take it to people who could never get it on there own

Oh really? You really think Iraqis are truly appreciating what the U.S has done for them? The vast majority are supporting you or are they supporting the insurgents? What number of Iraqi's have you been hearing from? Is it more than half the country? You absolutely, positively how no idea of how the U.S is viewed by an average Iraqi (or any Middle Eastern for that matter) now, do you?

[douglas]

Oh really? You really think Iraqis are truly appreciating what the U.S has done for them? The vast majority are supporting you or are they supporting the insurgents? What number of Iraqi's have you been hearing from? Is it more than half the country? You absolutely, positively how no idea of how the U.S is viewed by an average Iraqi (or any Middle Eastern for that matter) now, do you?
He would if he were a soldier and served over there. I've heard from more than one soldier who said there have been Iraqis that are very happy we've done what we've done. Is it the majority? I have no idea.

[Phaser]

He would if he were a soldier and served over there. I've heard from more than one soldier who said there have been Iraqis that are very happy we've done what we've done. Is it the majority? I have no idea.

Well, what else do you expect them to do? You think that Iraqi people would actually praise the insurgents or show their hatred of America in front of U.S soldiers who cruise around in tanks and are loaded with guns, armor and firepower? Especially after what some of the disgruntled soldiers did to prisoners in Abu Ghraib and other prisons?

[strike-hard]

Oh really? You really think Iraqis are truly appreciating what the U.S has done for them? The vast majority are supporting you or are they supporting the insurgents? What number of Iraqi's have you been hearing from? Is it more than half the country? You absolutely, positively how no idea of how the U.S is viewed by an average Iraqi (or any Middle Eastern for that matter) now, do you?

U.S.-led invasion: All Arabs Kurds
Was right 48% 40% 87%
Was wrong 39 46 9

Liberated Iraq 42% 33% 82%
Humiliated Iraq 41 48 11

Presence of coalition forces:
Support 39% 30% 82%
Oppose 51 60 12

Attacks on coalition forces:
Acceptable 17% 21% 2%
Unacceptable 78 74 96

[maxwell's demon]

strike hard IS mysteriously connected
to fred fury in some way:

idiots | sensible people | crazy robots
yes: 99% | 74% | grrr!
no: 86% | 21% | beep opp.

[Phaser]

U.S.-led invasion: All Arabs Kurds
Was right 48% 40% 87%
Was wrong 39 46 9

Liberated Iraq 42% 33% 82%
Humiliated Iraq 41 48 11

Presence of coalition forces:
Support 39% 30% 82%
Oppose 51 60 12

Attacks on coalition forces:
Acceptable 17% 21% 2%
Unacceptable 78 74 96

Wha...? Where did you get that from? Don't tell me its the same sources, your CNN, CBS, NBC and other news agencies that are not to be trusted when it comes to reporting "accurate" facts regarding the conditions in Iraq :rolleyes:. Seriously, tell me, where did you get these results from? What does this source of yours tell of the prevailing conditions in Iraq?

[maxwell's demon]

its from abc:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/GoodMorningAmerica/Iraq_anniversary_poll_040314.html

from the article:

"More Iraqis say the United States was right than say it was wrong to lead the invasion, but by just 48 percent to 39 percent, with 13 percent expressing no opinion — hardly the unreserved welcome some U.S. policymakers had anticipated.

As many Iraqis say the war "humiliated" Iraq as say it "liberated" the country; more oppose than support the presence of coalition forces there now (although most also say they should stay for the time being); and relatively few express confidence in those forces, in the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority, or in the Iraqi Governing Council."

[CrAzYMoFo]

What I think makes us right is how we are the most powerful country in the world. We obviously have to be doing something right.

[maxwell's demon]

it should also be noted that, as the article states- the kurds make up a small minority (17%) of the population, and were the only big supporters of the US in the poll.

[maxwell's demon]

What I think makes us right is how we are the most powerful country in the world. We obviously have to be doing something right.
???

[strike-hard]

Wha...? Where did you get that from? Don't tell me its the same sources, your CNN, CBS, NBC and other news agencies that are not to be trusted when it comes to reporting "accurate" facts regarding the conditions in Iraq :rolleyes:. Seriously, tell me, where did you get these results from? What does this source of yours tell of the prevailing conditions in Iraq?

Course you liberals only want to take in what you want, everything else that goes against your views you block out.

[maxwell's demon]

"Power is not revealed by striking hard or often, but by striking true."
- Honore de Balzac

[Phaser]

its from abc:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/GoodMorningAmerica/Iraq_anniversary_poll_040314.html

from the article:

"More Iraqis say the United States was right than say it was wrong to lead the invasion, but by just 48 percent to 39 percent, with 13 percent expressing no opinion — hardly the unreserved welcome some U.S. policymakers had anticipated.

As many Iraqis say the war "humiliated" Iraq as say it "liberated" the country; more oppose than support the presence of coalition forces there now (although most also say they should stay for the time being); and relatively few express confidence in those forces, in the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority, or in the Iraqi Governing Council."


Regardless of what CBS and CNN tell you, I have seen and heard from planty of Iraqis who have embraced America and are full of life now that they have a chance at freedom. The vast majority of Iraq is not trying to throw us out, rather they are supporting us. That is what makes us, America, right. the fact that we have enough honor and respect for freedom to take it to people who could never get it on there own

Well? As far as those polls show, that's hardly a majority. Even then, the survey doesn't exactly represent an accurate and completely reliable picture of the Middle-eastern/Iraqi viewpoint on the U.S led invasion.

[maxwell's demon]

Course you liberals only want to take in what you want, everything else that goes against your views you block out.

psst...i think thats actually what you did buddy (but shhh- lets keep it a secret)

[Phaser]

Course you liberals only want to take in what you want, everything else that goes against your views you block out.

Liberal? BWAHAHAHAHA!! :D

Just because I don't like Bush that automatically makes me a liberal? I'm not even an American to begin with.

[bored]

What I think makes us right is how we are the most powerful country in the world. We obviously have to be doing something right.


like, say, bullying? i'm sure i'll get flamed for that, but you know it's true.

[bored]

Right is right.

Left is wrong.

take ya all day to think of that? :rolleyes:

[cryptic name]

And onto the issue of the topic...

I must say there really is NOTHING that says we are right or wrong. Every person believes a different thing, and every person acts differently.

If person one believes that Tacos are delicious.
Then person two thinks they are disgusting, and prefers Burritos, it doesn't necessarily mean his opinion is any more right then person number one.

But why do we THINK we are right? Because it's in human nature. Religions and Nations alike all think they are right, and all think that "Good" is on their side.

In World War 2, we believed we had the side of good and God on our side (or some supreme being), and that we would prevail over the evil. In Germany, the Nazis believed they were on the side of good and were doing Gods will. Were they right or wrong? In my belief, the Nazis were the bad guys. But that doesn't neccessarily mean I am right.

There's a counter to every arguement.

Nothing is ever black and white, the world is Grey. This discussion is more of a philisophical question than a political question, and honestly I'm no Philisoph, so I couldn't answer the question any better than anyone else can.

(Excuse me if I typod... It'd Midnight and I'm tired.)


the problem is that there is a definite right and wrong. i think grey is an excuse for ambiguity. the nazis were wrong because they were killing millions of people, not just jews, but protestants, catholics, anybody that got in their way. that's wrong and we stopped them, that was right.

now someone's probably going to try to connect this to what we are doing in iraq. don't. even if you did want to liken them you would be reaching considerably.

[vegeta21]

America isn't "right", nor is America "wrong". America just is.

[Doomed_hero]

I think the question that is asked is all about point of view of what right is. and in that way a bit to vague.

[vegeta21]

Right and Wrong can be very vague sometimes.

[Spider-Fett]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?


The stories are written by the winners. Therefore the winners are always "right".

[Spider-Fett]

U.S.-led invasion: All Arabs Kurds
Was right 48% 40% 87%
Was wrong 39 46 9

Liberated Iraq 42% 33% 82%
Humiliated Iraq 41 48 11

Presence of coalition forces:
Support 39% 30% 82%
Oppose 51 60 12

Attacks on coalition forces:
Acceptable 17% 21% 2%
Unacceptable 78 74 96

Did you know that 87% of all statistics are made up?

[vegeta21]

There's alot of wrongs with humanity in general. America's biggest fault is that its a powerul country run by humans.

[The Democrat]

What I was trying to acheive with this thread before it became a flame war was to see where people sense of morality was. Morality on a larger more complex scale than rape or murder. There are clear definate lines of morality yes. I suppose the question was to vague but I felt that most people would get what I meant.


This thread is obviously dead so I'll answer my own question.

I find in morally reprehensible to stand by while clear wrongs are being committed. I don't however believe we have the right to police the world. I feel that America should only invade a nation, go to war when it is presented with a clear threat (such as Afghanistan) or when a majority of the worlds nations agree on war. I feel that America no longer holds the high ground in today's world. That even with all the good we have done, with all the right that we've done our military actions since 1963 with few exceptions have been though well intended ultimately wrong. We should be a society of diplomats. We should be able to work out our differances like a rational, mature society. I think view points like those of a certain poster in here are dangerous and if we continue carrying out assault after assualt, war after war it will be the end of our nation.

There are clear threats, not only to our nation but to the very cause of freedom, that need to be dealt with that are not being dealt with. Ignoring countries with nuclear weapons regardless of the conflict of intrest presented by our own stockpiles is a fool hearty and disasterous. Allowing new nuclear weapons to be developed in nations hostile to the western world is out of the question. It threatens not only our nation but the entire world. The western society is not what we protect, it is not what we defend it is, rather, the world that we must protect, it is the world that we must defend. It is our power or rather in our use of power that we hold or more appropriately once held the moral high ground. We cannot go blundering about, swinging Teddy Roosevelts big stick. We must show integrity in our pursuit of a more perfect world. We must be honorable and then and only then will we have honorable ends to our wars, our conflicts. It all comes down to our fundemental purpose as the sole Super Power reflected best by John F. Kennedy when he said in a speech to students at American University on June 10, 1963:

"There are few earthly things more beautiful than a university," wrote John Mansfield, in his tribute to English universities--and his words are equally true today. He did not refer to spires and towers, to campus greens and ivied walls. He admired the splendid beauty of the university, he said, because it was "a place where those who hate ignorance may strive to know, where those who perceive truth may strive to make others see."
I have, therefore, chosen this time and this place to discuss a topic on which ignorance too often abounds and the truth is too rarely perceived--yet it is the most important topic on earth: world peace.

What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children--not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women--not merely peace in our time but peace for all time."

---The Democrat (A.K.A. Joshua)

[DIZZY MOONBEAM]

neither of those answer the question though. I'm asking a serious question. What makes America right? What allows us to walk the moral high ground?


We don't really have the right, but it does'nt help when every countrie in the world has borrowed money from us, or we give it to them in relief. It's kinda like your mom when she gives you money (if you have moved out) until you start flying on your own without her help she feels as if she has a right to police you.

And I don't think we police the world. We do what we need to do to make sure we and our allies are safe. And the world knows this. We may not be the super power we used to be but we can still hold our own and yours if you mess with us, and everyone knows this. And they know it because they have seen it on the news. It's not a matter of policing anybody anymore it's a matter of life or death.

And I know you won't agree, it's just my thinking that's all.

[bored]

you are aware that we've borrowed money from other countries as well, right? and i do believe we still owe a bit of it.

[LordSimen]

the problem is that there is a definite right and wrong. i think grey is an excuse for ambiguity. the nazis were wrong because they were killing millions of people, not just jews, but protestants, catholics, anybody that got in their way. that's wrong and we stopped them, that was right.

now someone's probably going to try to connect this to what we are doing in iraq. don't. even if you did want to liken them you would be reaching considerably.

While I agree that in my opinion that is wrong, the only reason it is wrong is because we are in power.

If the Nazis had won, and they were in power, they'd be the right ones and we'd be the wrong ones.

So there is no definite "Right" or "Wrong," just what the individual believes.

[TheSumOfGod]

The great tragedy and historical irony of America is that you use to be the good guys, and you had the potential to change the world for the better, but now you're just a rampaging war machine fueled by fear, greed and consumerism. Sigh.

Now, if Bush is re-elected and attempts to impose his neo-con evangelical christian agenda upon the rest of the world, the rest of the world is gonna have to gather some nuts and kick your ass like the Allied Forces did the Nazis in WWII.

[SoulManX]

I will put this in comic terms...America is Superman
The rest of the world is Lex Luthor.

As Superman has done in the past is take matters into his own hands. Superman does not ask the police to take down super villians because he knows what they can do. Like Superman we take matters into our hands. Right or wrong we are the SUPER POWERED NATION. Get rid of the useless U.N. and let the American Empire Rule The World. We'll do a better job at it, like our country.

[TheSumOfGod]

Actually, Superman is how America views itself, and Lex Luthor is how America is viewed by the rest of the world.

[Matt]

There is no such thing as right and wrong. To some invading Iraq was right. To others it was wrong. To us 9/11 was a horrid tragedy...to a lot of the middle east it was a day to celebrate.

Who is right? Who is wrong? No one.

[cryptic name]

While I agree that in my opinion that is wrong, the only reason it is wrong is because we are in power.

If the Nazis had won, and they were in power, they'd be the right ones and we'd be the wrong ones.

So there is no definite "Right" or "Wrong," just what the individual believes.


i don't believe in moral relativism. there is a definite right and wrong, it doesn't matter who's in power.

[LordSimen]

i don't believe in moral relativism. there is a definite right and wrong, it doesn't matter who's in power.

See, you just prooved my point. It's what you believe. And just because YOU believe it does not mean it's true for the whole world, or that the whole world sees it as you do.

There is no right and wrong, just what a person believes is right and wrong.

Just the way it is.

[bluejake01]

i don't believe in moral relativism. there is a definite right and wrong, it doesn't matter who's in power.

So it is absolutely wrong to kill some one?

[cryptic name]

no it's absolutely wrong to murder someone

[cryptic name]

See, you just prooved my point. It's what you believe. And just because YOU believe it does not mean it's true for the whole world, or that the whole world sees it as you do.

There is no right and wrong, just what a person believes is right and wrong.

Just the way it is.


we're going to have to agree to disagree

[bored]

I will put this in comic terms...America is Superman
The rest of the world is Lex Luthor.

As Superman has done in the past is take matters into his own hands. Superman does not ask the police to take down super villians because he knows what they can do. Like Superman we take matters into our hands. Right or wrong we are the SUPER POWERED NATION. Get rid of the useless U.N. and let the American Empire Rule The World. We'll do a better job at it, like our country.


you're kidding, right? otherwise, that's exactly the attitude that pisses everyone else off.

[bluejake01]

no it's absolutely wrong to murder someone

Nice way to avoid the question.

[terry78]

There will never be a definite answer to this question, it's like one of those "why is the sky blue?" types of things. You ask 40 different people, you get 40 differnent answers.

[SoulManX]

Yes I was kidding..the problem is we have elite people in power who do things for thier own gain..i.e. POWER. What pisses me off is that Our Government be it any party forgets America. But I will say this America's problem is Government, it is a cancer on the people of this country. There are people who place faith in it like a church. Most Government people are rich and power and use middle and poor for votes. Big Bussiness, Hollywood, Other Countries, etc is what Government is working for. These tumors help the cancer Government grow to fuel what ever the tumors need. The American Government want to be G.I Joe so bad that any country not play ball with them is Cobra. I guess I missed the message at the end.

AND NOW YOU KNOW AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE.

[The Democrat]

What I think makes us right is how we are the most powerful country in the world. We obviously have to be doing something right.
That is not right that is powerful.

[bored]

ok. that's cool.

[Pythenis]

"Were on a mission from God"...actually if you research it thats what the declaration of independance is all about, founding fathers basically said if you dont run this nation under god, this nation wont run...but who actually takes the time to read that? Also the "separation of chuch and state" does not appear in the constitution it was in a letter from Andrew Jackson I believe actually stating that goverment needs to stay out of the church not the other way around.

[TLATOANI]

Thats really not the question. The question is what creates the perception that we are the good guys.

AND how has that percertion????


just the american people

in my perception you are the bad guys and osama too cuzz he kill innocent people...well...usa too

then...usa is not the good guy

only the people of usa thinks that they are the good guy because they live there


by the way: I HATE USA!!!!

well just bush

[SoulManX]

ok. that's cool.
Glad to clear that up
;)

[SoulManX]

"Were on a mission from God"...actually if you research it thats what the declaration of independance is all about, founding fathers basically said if you dont run this nation under god, this nation wont run...but who actually takes the time to read that? Also the "separation of chuch and state" does not appear in the constitution it was in a letter from Andrew Jackson I believe actually stating that goverment needs to stay out of the church not the other way around.

That is so true on what this coutry is founded on. But like anything in this country...most say that was in the past...doesn't matter anymore. Would love to hear what the founding fathers would say. :rolleyes:

[The Democrat]

There is no such thing as right and wrong. To some invading Iraq was right. To others it was wrong. To us 9/11 was a horrid tragedy...to a lot of the middle east it was a day to celebrate.

Who is right? Who is wrong? No one.
Matt I agree with you on almost every issue but here I absolutely have to disagree.

Many things are subjective in this world, many issues are nuanced and complex but murder is not one of them. Hijacking four planes with innocent people aboard and smashing them into the economic center of the world where thousands of innocent people visit daily and the Pentagon is wrong. There can be no justification for it. I would also say that the same is true of so called "collateral Damage". There is no differance between innocent civilians in America and innocent civilians in Iraq. I'm not comparing our troops or military tactics with those of the terrorists but rather the ideology that says that its acceptable.

The irony lies in the perceptions. We are villified daily by these extremists just as we villify them daily. Many people don't differentiate between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden and Ahmed who works at the bazar. The same is true of many in the middle east, they don't differentiate between our leaders like George W. Bush or John Kerry and Joe who works at the mall. Its a simplistic view held to constantly raise and hold the fear level. You scare enough people long enough you can get them to agree to anything as long as you convince them that they will be safer.

[The Democrat]

That is so true on what this coutry is founded on. But like anything in this country...most say that was in the past...doesn't matter anymore. Would love to hear what the founding fathers would say. :rolleyes:
In one of the greatest cases of governing intuition the founding fathers realized that times change and that the ultimate pursuit of America is the formering of a "more pefect union". That is our goal, they realized that we couldn't form a perfect union but rather as fallible and mortal humans we can only push to the horizon. I think that the true questions that they would have would be "how the hell did the slaves get the right to vote?" and "didn't we say that you could only vote if you owned land?"

Our nation was not founded as the government we see now. About the only constant that our government as a body has held is the potential threat looming from large business intrests and overly ambitious lawyers. Forget not that our nation was not formed by philosophers or great generals but rather by businessmen and lawyers. Yes there was Jefferson and Franklin but they too were of the ruling class.

[TLATOANI]

Usa And All The Countries Should Take Care Of Their Own Bussiness!!!!!

Live And Let Live

[TLATOANI]

USA AND ALL THE COUNTRIES SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN BUSSINESS!!!!!

LIVE AND LET LIVE

learn from the mexicans and suiza and all the countries who take care of their own bussines

[TLATOANI]

"between the people as between the nations the respect to others is the peace"

BENITO JUAREZ PRESIDENT OF MEXICO

[C. Lee]

Don't make multiple posts...put it in one.

[The Democrat]

"Were on a mission from God"...actually if you research it thats what the declaration of independance is all about, founding fathers basically said if you dont run this nation under god, this nation wont run...but who actually takes the time to read that? Also the "separation of chuch and state" does not appear in the constitution it was in a letter from Andrew Jackson I believe actually stating that goverment needs to stay out of the church not the other way around.
Actually thats just patently false:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Subsequent Supreme Court desicions such as


Lemon v. Kurtzman (http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=[group+403+u!2Es!2E+602!3A]^[group+citemenu!3A]^[level+case+citation!3A]^[group+notes!3A]/doc/{@1}/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?), 91 S. Ct. 2105 (1971) Established the three part test for determining if an action of government violates First Amendment’s separation of church and state: 1) the government action must have a secular purpose; 2) its primary purpose must not be to inhibit or to advance religion; 3) there must be no excessive entanglement between government and religion.

and

Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Education of School District (http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=murray+/doc/{21731,0,0,0}/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?), 333 U.S. 203 (1948)

These decisions act as constitutional amendments of sorts.

The Declaration of Independance though a sacred document in American history contains no law.

[Evelisse]

Why are we the good guys? What is your answer to this. What makes us the good guys as a general rule?


Because humans are imperfect, nothing more, you'll never get the answer that is satisfactory. No leftwing nor rightwing stance can fix it, only hope to contain it, and keep it going.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

What makes us right is what many people have forgotten. We are and have been the catalyst for change for the entire world. Merely 250 years ago most of the globe TRULY believed in the divine right of certain people, due to their bloodlines, to have power over others. Our forefathers woke the world up out of that nightmare. Despite the Constitution's admonishment against an established, monolithic religion ( in an effort to avoid the political difficulties posed by the C of E ) they saw that divinity reaches out to EACH of us and that we must allow ourselves to be guided by it as individuals as well as nationally. Our Founding Fathers would be perplexed by misinterpretations of their work by rabid ideologs which have allowed schools without prayer and other craziness which has led to entire generations bereft of a moral foundation. Nevertheless, it is this basic idea that we know what is best for us which makes us right; that we the people should get to decide our course, just as other peoples should decide theirs. This is a good topic to visit right now as the partisanship growing in this country threatens to undermine those very ideals. We have begun to slip back into dogmatic, sectarian thinking rather than individualism. Examples of this are; "Well, he's the guy I voted for ( a member of my party ) and therefore he... can lie under oath and not be prosecuted...his decisions should not be questioned, that's unpatriotic... ( I included one from each party and could go on & on, but I can't type ) I call this the "Political Disfunctional Family Syndrome," like the wife and mother who refuses to believe that her new husband is molesting her kids even though the evidence is right under her nose. She's afraid if she acknowledges it, then it will reflect upon her because she chose him. This is just dangerous. Right now all over America people are sublimating their own morals and beliefs in order to vote the party line for a candidate who does not truly represent ( or care about ) those beliefs. That's happening on both sides & it's what's WRONG with America. But I digress...

[bluejake01]

That is so true on what this coutry is founded on. But like anything in this country...most say that was in the past...doesn't matter anymore. Would love to hear what the founding fathers would say. :rolleyes:

Let me find you the 43 different quotes where Thomas Jefferson criticizes any government based on religion. Actually...why don't you use Google and go check it out for yourself.

[bluejake01]

I feel this quote is oddly appropriate to the discussion.

"We're *****! We're reckless, arrogant,stupid *****. And the Film Actors Guild are pussies. And Kim Jong Il is an *******. Pussies dont like ***** because pussies get ****ed by *****. But ***** also **** *******s. *******s that just want to **** on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with *******s their way. But the only thing that can **** an ******* is a dick, with some balls. The problem with ***** is they **** too much or **** when it isn't appropriate. And it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes pussies can be so full of **** that they become *******s themselves. Because pussies are a inch and half away from *******s. I don't know much about this crazy crazy world, but I do know this. If you don't let us **** this ******* we're going to have our ***** and pussies all covered in ****."

[The Spawn]

Who says America is right?

[SoulManX]

What makes us right is what many people have forgotten. We are and have been the catalyst for change for the entire world. Merely 250 years ago most of the globe TRULY believed in the divine right of certain people, due to their bloodlines, to have power over others. Our forefathers woke the world up out of that nightmare. Despite the Constitution's admonishment against an established, monolithic religion ( in an effort to avoid the political difficulties posed by the C of E ) they saw that divinity reaches out to EACH of us and that we must allow ourselves to be guided by it as individuals as well as nationally. Our Founding Fathers would be perplexed by misinterpretations of their work by rabid ideologs which have allowed schools without prayer and other craziness which has led to entire generations bereft of a moral foundation. Nevertheless, it is this basic idea that we know what is best for us which makes us right; that we the people should get to decide our course, just as other peoples should decide theirs. This is a good topic to visit right now as the partisanship growing in this country threatens to undermine those very ideals. We have begun to slip back into dogmatic, sectarian thinking rather than individualism. Examples of this are; "Well, he's the guy I voted for ( a member of my party ) and therefore he... can lie under oath and not be prosecuted...his decisions should not be questioned, that's unpatriotic... ( I included one from each party and could go on & on, but I can't type ) I call this the "Political Disfunctional Family Syndrome," like the wife and mother who refuses to believe that her new husband is molesting her kids even though the evidence is right under her nose. She's afraid if she acknowledges it, then it will reflect upon her because she chose him. This is just dangerous. Right now all over America people are sublimating their own morals and beliefs in order to vote the party line for a candidate who does not truly represent ( or care about ) those beliefs. That's happening on both sides & it's what's WRONG with America. But I digress...


I do agree with u.

[SoulManX]

The other problem with this country is that there is no third party to fight with. The elephant and the jackass are to power for any newcomer to come to the stage. They kill a lot of new ideas that could turn this country around. I fear a dictorship is looming over this country....if another attack in NYC should happen. Then u can forget about threads like this and your rights. :unishr:

[Constantine J.]

What makes us right is what many people have forgotten. We are and have been the catalyst for change for the entire world. .........

Well, yes, and no, This is a kind of revisionist History that kind of has America (More Like the U.S.A.) were it is today (America is a continent you know?).
I don't think the U.S. is better or worse than Most countries, In fact, many of you might not know this but the U.S. resisted the growing trend in the world (At the time) to end slavery, so much so that civil war ensued (and even that one was not all about slavery) so, while there has been instances were the U.S. has presented the world with a good example it's also to self involved and isolationist in a way, just look at your statement, you mention prayer in school and the lack of it, as a reason people are bereft of moral values, but prayer in school was eliminated to not exclude other denominations, because there are, yet still, a growing rift between races and creeds have prevailed in this bastion of freedom?
It's the exact mindset that creates this, while I will agree with you about voting democrat or republican based solely on party is wrong, I think that there 's far more wrong with the outlook of the average U.S. citizen these days.
at least half of them say they are "Pro-life" when it comes to abortion, but they don't seem to have any trouble with the president killing thousands of human beings overseas, all the while the fiction put forth by the administration dissolving in their very eyes. there's a strange set of morals there, I'm not quite sure how to put it.
the U.S. actually, Is right in very seldom instances, it's just that they are the biggest on the block, so who could oposse?
think about this, Reagan has been hailed as a great leader (I disagree) but it was reagan and his Vp (Bush) who armed Iraq so he could fight Iran.
all the while arming Iran so it could fight Iraq.
see the dishonesty behind those manouvers? can you see how people in other countries could begin to see the U.S. in less than a favorable light?
not only that, but the U.S. has what is tantamount to an empire all throughout the world, and It can do what it pleases, this sooner rather than later will bring consequences.
In the end the original question is "What Makes America Right?" nothing.....
it's not right. further more it does not have the right to enforce "freedom" all through world at the barrell of a gun.
It's peculiar to me, to see the average American say "well we had to save those poor Iraqis, they weren't free" but if you were to ask them if they would endorse their government in helping other countries through non-lethal manners a lot of them would say "Take care of America first!" so....you can see how strange this sounds to any thinking individual.
I was watching SNL last saturday, and it had a sketch featuring Jude Law as Tony Blair, it centered around him taking a vacation in the U.S> because after the Brittish people found out that there where no WMD's his approval rating had dropped. and then he said something like...
"it's admirable how you Americans still stand behind your president even after all the Lies and Mistakes..."

something like that.
It was funny, but due to the circumstances it was not HA HA! funny.

[Phaser]

Well, yes, and no, This is a kind of revisionist History that kind of has America (More Like the U.S.A.) were it is today (America is a continent you know?).
I don't think the U.S. is better or worse than Most countries, In fact, many of you might not know this but the U.S. resisted the growing trend in the world (At the time) to end slavery, so much so that civil war ensued (and even that one was not all about slavery) so, while there has been instances were the U.S. has presented the world with a good example it's also to self involved and isolationist in a way, just look at your statement, you mention prayer in school and the lack of it, as a reason people are bereft of moral values, but prayer in school was eliminated to not exclude other denominations, because there are, yet still, a growing rift between races and creeds have prevailed in this bastion of freedom?
It's the exact mindset that creates this, while I will agree with you about voting democrat or republican based solely on party is wrong, I think that there 's far more wrong with the outlook of the average U.S. citizen these days.
at least half of them say they are "Pro-life" when it comes to abortion, but they don't seem to have any trouble with the president killing thousands of human beings overseas, all the while the fiction put forth by the administration dissolving in their very eyes. there's a strange set of morals there, I'm not quite sure how to put it.
the U.S. actually, Is right in very seldom instances, it's just that they are the biggest on the block, so who could oposse?
think about this, Reagan has been hailed as a great leader (I disagree) but it was reagan and his Vp (Bush) who armed Iraq so he could fight Iran.
all the while arming Iran so it could fight Iraq.
see the dishonesty behind those manouvers? can you see how people in other countries could begin to see the U.S. in less than a favorable light?
not only that, but the U.S. has what is tantamount to an empire all throughout the world, and It can do what it pleases, this sooner rather than later will bring consequences.
In the end the original question is "What Makes America Right?" nothing.....
it's not right. further more it does not have the right to enforce "freedom" all through world at the barrell of a gun.
It's peculiar to me, to see the average American say "well we had to save those poor Iraqis, they weren't free" but if you were to ask them if they would endorse their government in helping other countries through non-lethal manners a lot of them would say "Take care of America first!" so....you can see how strange this sounds to any thinking individual.
I was watching SNL last saturday, and it had a sketch featuring Jude Law as Tony Blair, it centered around him taking a vacation in the U.S> because after the Brittish people found out that there where no WMD's his approval rating had dropped. and then he said something like...
"it's admirable how you Americans still stand behind your president even after all the Lies and Mistakes..."

something like that.
It was funny, but due to the circumstances it was not HA HA! funny.

:up:

You, my friend, have a very good idea of how the world views America right now. The evident double-standard of many foreign policies of the U.S administration in the past, the arrogance and self-righteous view of many Americans - the "we're right, everybody is wrong, screw them all" approach. The example of the reaction of the British people after finding out that there were no WMD's in Iraq and that Blair had led them into a wild goose chase is a very plausible one.

[The Democrat]

Who says America is right?
Oh you found the only flaw in the question, congrats pat yourself on the back:rolleyes:

Anyone who denies that there is a certain portion of the U.S. that blindly believes that American military might makes us right is just plain wrong. My question was using a semi-Socratic method was too find out why that was. When did it come about and hopefully to examine that belief. It didn't turn out that way because appearantly no one had a really good answer. Then a little prick turned this into a flame war.

[cryptic name]

Nice way to avoid the question.

no, there is a difference between killing and murdering.

[cryptic name]

There will never be a definite answer to this question, it's like one of those "why is the sky blue?" types of things. You ask 40 different people, you get 40 differnent answers.


the sky is blue because the blue is the color in the lightspectrum that is being reflected from the sun's rays

[Corinthian™]

not going to read through a lot of uninformed crap from teenagers who've been rised to think "America is the superior nation"...

I'm not going to answer anything but I'm sure going to tell you this...

By almost all Latin america, almost all arabic/persian nations and other countries that had tasted the bitterness of US of A, USA IS the bad guy... by everyone else USa is just plain stupid... not saying anything that I haven't heard...

[DIZZY MOONBEAM]

not going to read through a lot of uninformed crap from teenagers who've been rised to think "America is the superior nation"...

I'm not going to answer anything but I'm sure going to tell you this...

By almost all Latin america, almost all arabic/persian nations and other countries that had tasted the bitterness of US of A, USA IS the bad guy... by everyone else USa is just plain stupid... not saying anything that I haven't heard...
O.K. if we are so bad than how come we have more and more Latino's moving into our state everyday. If it was such a "evil" nation you would think everyone would stay away instead of move in.

[Corinthian™]

O.K. if we are so bad than how come we have more and more Latino's moving into our state everyday. If it was such a "evil" nation you would think everyone would stay away instead of move in.
Not saying "evil"... just bad... and why? because our people is dying thanks to the ****ty goverment around... you got Castro, ****ing corrupt mexican goverment, narc-full countries in the middle and of course, almost economy colapsing countries on the south...

[Mr. Smash'n Bash]

not going to read through a lot of uninformed crap from teenagers who've been rised to think "America is the superior nation"...

I'm not going to answer anything but I'm sure going to tell you this...

By almost all Latin america, almost all arabic/persian nations and other countries that had tasted the bitterness of US of A, USA IS the bad guy... by everyone else USa is just plain stupid... not saying anything that I haven't heard...


Maybe your just hearing a small portion of it? I personally I have been all across Europe; England, Ireland, Wales, Austria, Italy, France, and Switzerland and when I was there I didn't here a single line of that "The US is what's wrong with the world" bull****. The only place I was ever discriminated on because of my nationality was in France. Those ****ing bastards kicked me out of a store because I was American. I, however, told the guy to kiss my white Amercian ass. :o

[Corinthian™]

by the by... not dissing the people... people are almost like us... I'm dissing the gov....

[Alonsovich]

Nobody is right. Only I am... :o

[Mr. Smash'n Bash]

You spelled beauty wrong in your Title Corinthian. :o

[Alonsovich]

not going to read through a lot of uninformed crap from teenagers who've been rised to think "America is the superior nation"...

I'm not going to answer anything but I'm sure going to tell you this...

By almost all Latin america, almost all arabic/persian nations and other countries that had tasted the bitterness of US of A, USA IS the bad guy... by everyone else USa is just plain stupid... not saying anything that I haven't heard...

I couldn't care less about what arabic/persian nations say about bad guys... :o

[Corinthian™]

Maybe your just hearing a small portion of it? I personally I have been all across Europe; England, Ireland, Wales, Austria, Italy, France, and Switzerland and when I was there I didn't here a single line of that "The US is what's wrong with the world" bull****. The only place I was ever discriminated on because of my nationality was in France. Those ****ing bastards kicked me out of a store because I was American. I, however, told the guy to kiss my white Amercian ass. :o
again... not dissing the people...

****... I know a lot of you who think that thanks to the ****ty work over there, you guys are being descriminated...

when US people come to my town I try to be nice of them, speaking to them in english... trying to show how we try to be nice, so they can spread the word and try to not shoot my people when crossing the border... hell... I'm actually trying to apply to an American College.. because I know I can get more oportunities there...

[bluejake01]

no, there is a difference between killing and murdering.

Explain the difference to me. Was 9/11 murder? or Killing?

[Corinthian™]

You spelled beauty wrong in your Title Corinthian. :o
Shhh... it is beuty... it's like another term of beauty:o

[The Democrat]

Not saying "evil"... just bad... and why? because our people is dying thanks to the ****ty goverment around... you got Castro, ****ing corrupt mexican goverment, narc-full countries in the middle and of course, almost economy colapsing countries on the south...
Yes and most of that was caused by my government and for that I apologize. I really wish that we could do something for folks like you.

[Alonsovich]

Yes and most of that was caused by my government and for that I apologize. I really wish that we could do something for folks like you.

Not really, Castro was not the fault of the USA. It was the USSR. The mexican government is not corrupt due to the US, it's because they've been like that since 100 years ago. Narc-full countries is not fault of the USA, it's the fault of the mafias that live of it, fault of the quantity of money it movies and fault of the own countries because if they end it, they end the way of life of 70% of their population. I don't see why you have to apologize for that. Oh, and this is said by a European... :o

[Corinthian™]

Not really, Castro was not the fault of the USA. It was the USSR. The mexican government is not corrupt due to the US, it's because they've been like that since 100 years ago. Narc-full countries is not fault of the USA, it's the fault of the mafias that live of it, fault of the quantity of money it movies and fault of the own countries because if they end it, they end the way of life of 70% of their population. I don't see why you have to apologize for that. Oh, and this is said by a European... :o
"an" my friend... and one stupid spaniard-like one:o

[Alonsovich]

"an" my friend... and one stupid spaniard-like one:o

Such "an" intelligent answer... :o

[Corinthian™]

Such "an" intelligent answer... :o
Don't hate the playa, hate the beach:cool::o


:confused:

;)

[Spider-Nerd]

That is so true on what this coutry is founded on.No, our country was not founded on a single religion. That is exactly what the founders of our country opposed, they BROKE with the church of england. That is why we have no established religion. If you read papers and essays by the founding fathers, franklin, jefferson, hancock, stockton, washington, even hamilton, it is clear they did not want a single established religion in this country, nor did they believe or intend for the country to be christianity based.

[Alonsovich]

Don't hate the playa, hate the beach:cool::o


:confused:

;)

:D :D

[Alonsovich]

No, our country was not founded on a single religion. That is exactly what the founders of our country opposed, they BROKE with the church of england. That is why we have no established religion. If you read papers and essays by the founding fathers, franklin, jefferson, hancock, stockton, washington, even hamilton, it is clear they did not want a single established religion in this country, nor did they believe or intend for the country to be christianity based.

Just a little question. Why the sentence "In God we trust"? :confused:

[Corinthian™]

:D :D
I love that only we understand each other, puta:o

[Corinthian™]

Just a little question. Why the sentence "In God we trust"? :confused:
God bless america:confused:

[Alonsovich]

I love that only we understand each other, puta:o

Damn right, zorra... :o

[Corinthian™]

Damn right, zorra... :o
you and your racial slurs:mad:





:confused:

[Spider-Nerd]

"in god we trust" was not coined by our founding fathers.

[Alonsovich]

you and your racial slurs:mad:





:confused:

Racial? No sir, I'm no nazi... :o

[Corinthian™]

Racial? No sir, I'm no nazi... :o
:eek:

You ****ing commie, die:mad:

((Way to highjack a thread..:o))

[Corinthian™]

"in god we trust" was not coined by our founding fathers.
really?:confused:

oh... well...:o

[Spider-Nerd]

"in god we trust" was not coined by our founding fathers.
by the way, no pun intended by that;)

[Alonsovich]

:eek:

You ****ing commie, die:mad:

((Way to highjack a thread..:o))

No commie either... :o

[Spider-Nerd]

really?:confused:

oh... well...:o
----------------------------------------------------

Fact Sheets: Currency & Coins
History of 'In God We Trust'

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.

One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.

As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.

You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.

It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:

I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.

The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.

The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.

A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency.

As a part of a comprehensive modernization program the BEP successfully developed and installed new high-speed rotary intaglio printing presses in 1957. These allowed BEP to print currency by the dry intaglio process, 32 notes to the sheet. One-dollar silver certificates were the first denomination printed on the new high-speed presses. They included IN GOD WE TRUST as part of the reverse design as BEP adopted new dies according to the law. The motto also appeared on one-dollar silver certificates of the 1957-A and 1957-B series.

BEP prints United States paper currency by an intaglio process from engraved plates. It was necessary, therefore, to engrave the motto into the printing plates as a part of the basic engraved design to give it the prominence it deserved.

One-dollar silver certificates series 1935, 1935-A, 1935-B, 1935-C, 1935-D, 1935-E, 1935-F, 1935-G, and 1935-H were all printed on the older flat-bed presses by the wet intaglio process. P.L. 84-140 recognized that an enormous expense would be associated with immediately replacing the costly printing plates. The law allowed BEP to gradually convert to the inclusion of IN GOD WE TRUST on the currency. Accordingly, the motto is not found on series 1935-E and 1935-F one-dollar notes. By September 1961, IN GOD WE TRUST had been added to the back design of the Series 1935-G notes. Some early printings of this series do not bear the motto. IN GOD WE TRUST appears on all series 1935-H one-dollar silver certificates.


http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

[Corinthian™]

mmmmhh...

*knocks sensesless Spider-nerd*

Ahoy mate spaniard...

let this thread be highjacked by Cap'n Corinthian Silverthong:mad:

[Spider-Nerd]

mmmmhh...
*knocks sensesless Spider-nerd*

OW! Mother......That hurt!

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Well, yes, and no, This is a kind of revisionist History that kind of has America (More Like the U.S.A.) were it is today (America is a continent you know?).
I don't think the U.S. is better or worse than Most countries, In fact, many of you might not know this but the U.S. resisted the growing trend in the world (At the time) to end slavery, so much so that civil war ensued (and even that one was not all about slavery) so, while there has been instances were the U.S. has presented the world with a good example it's also to self involved and isolationist in a way, just look at your statement, you mention prayer in school and the lack of it, as a reason people are bereft of moral values, but prayer in school was eliminated to not exclude other denominations, because there are, yet still, a growing rift between races and creeds have prevailed in this bastion of freedom?
It's the exact mindset that creates this, while I will agree with you about voting democrat or republican based solely on party is wrong, I think that there 's far more wrong with the outlook of the average U.S. citizen these days.
at least half of them say they are "Pro-life" when it comes to abortion, but they don't seem to have any trouble with the president killing thousands of human beings overseas, all the while the fiction put forth by the administration dissolving in their very eyes. there's a strange set of morals there, I'm not quite sure how to put it.
the U.S. actually, Is right in very seldom instances, it's just that they are the biggest on the block, so who could oposse?
think about this, Reagan has been hailed as a great leader (I disagree) but it was reagan and his Vp (Bush) who armed Iraq so he could fight Iran.
all the while arming Iran so it could fight Iraq.
see the dishonesty behind those manouvers? can you see how people in other countries could begin to see the U.S. in less than a favorable light?
not only that, but the U.S. has what is tantamount to an empire all throughout the world, and It can do what it pleases, this sooner rather than later will bring consequences.
In the end the original question is "What Makes America Right?" nothing.....
it's not right. further more it does not have the right to enforce "freedom" all through world at the barrell of a gun.
It's peculiar to me, to see the average American say "well we had to save those poor Iraqis, they weren't free" but if you were to ask them if they would endorse their government in helping other countries through non-lethal manners a lot of them would say "Take care of America first!" so....you can see how strange this sounds to any thinking individual.
I was watching SNL last saturday, and it had a sketch featuring Jude Law as Tony Blair, it centered around him taking a vacation in the U.S> because after the Brittish people found out that there where no WMD's his approval rating had dropped. and then he said something like...
"it's admirable how you Americans still stand behind your president even after all the Lies and Mistakes..."

something like that.
It was funny, but due to the circumstances it was not HA HA! funny.
WOW. And you accused me of being revisioist. You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, but to gain true knowledge and wisdom, you have got to stop taking everything in through your obviously biased filter.

[Constantine J.]

what part of my post is "revisionist"?

what's my bias?

[Nitehawk013]

It seems funny to me that Constantine and a few other Brits run their mouths about how America isn't the greatest nation. Hey genius, you would all be speaking German and be under the rule of a Nazi dictator if not for the good ol U S of A coming over to bail out your whole freakin continent. Your whole country, and France as well, has never been able to stand up to jack squat without us coming to your aid. Don't sit there drinking you frickin tea and eatin biscuits and run your pathetic mouth about the country that saved your behinds time and time again.

[The Democrat]

It seems funny to me that Constantine and a few other Brits run their mouths about how America isn't the greatest nation. Hey genius, you would all be speaking German and be under the rule of a Nazi dictator if not for the good ol U S of A coming over to bail out your whole freakin continent. Your whole country, and France as well, has never been able to stand up to jack squat without us coming to your aid. Don't sit there drinking you frickin tea and eatin biscuits and run your pathetic mouth about the country that saved your behinds time and time again.
Thanks for proving their point. The truth is with out them we would not have been able to hold off the Axis powers. Hell without France we wouldn't have an America. Sometimes you need to just shut the hell up if you don't have anything intelligent to say.

[Constantine J.]

I'm Brittish now?

[cryptic name]

not going to read through a lot of uninformed crap from teenagers who've been rised to think "America is the superior nation"...


...or maybe some of us can form our own conclusions, gasp! maybe not all teenagers are programmed...maybe...

(i shouldn't have enen dignified this with a response)

[cryptic name]

Explain the difference to me. Was 9/11 murder? or Killing?


*murder- the unlawful killing of one human by another with premeditated malice.

*kill-to put to death.

a murder is usually unprovoked, and is committed with the express desire to kill. so yes, the event on september the 11th was murder in that the terrorists purposefully killed thousands of innocent people that had nothing to do with them or their cause simply to make a point.

killing, on the other hand is simply ending a life. like, execution is killing but not murder. what soldiers do is not murder because they are not their to simply kill people(and when they do it is enemy soldiers, when they kill innocents it is not on purpose and therefore not murder,) they are there to do a job. they are not allowed to fire unless fired upon.

so murder is killing, but killing is not murder.
kind of like squares are rectangles, but rectangles aren't squares.