David Goyer's Script Discussion [Archive]

FlameHead

11-29-2004, 03:35 AM

SHH!: Are you still working on the Ghost Rider movie too?
Goyer: I might be getting an executive producer credit, but I'm really not involved. Once they decided that they didn't want it to be R-rated, Norrington and I basically left. I think there are some remnants of my script in there, but I haven't even read Mark Steven Johnson's new script. I totally wish him luck, but I'm really not involved.

SHH!: So I guess we won't be seeing a Midnight Sons movie anytime soon?
Goyer: No, there won't be a crossover. It's really hard when the film rights to the different characters go out to different studios.

SHH!: That seems to be the big problem with Marvel's movies, because at least at Warner Brothers, you could eventually expect to see some sort of crossover between their characters.
Goyer: But it's also why, by the same token, Marvel is more competitive. I think that's why they've initially had more success in marketing their properties for film, because they can go out to the town, whereas DC is really hindered in that way.

So, he may get a producer credit, which is pretty neat. I wish he were able to give a little more input or suggestions anyway. It would be nice to get some of his R-rated ideas in there...hehe.

It sucks that he says "no" on the Midnight Son's crossover idea though. I would think that woudl be a very valuable enterprise to develop...

PaleRider

11-29-2004, 04:21 AM

no R rating?? oh man I'm getting nervous. 1. Mark Steve Johnson now this. I'm getting ify.

FlameHead

11-29-2004, 07:48 AM

It's been a no R-rating for a while now. If you're really nervous, I suggest checking out the Q&A thread posted by MSJ. It puts your mind at ease a little... and he does discuss the R-rating thing.

BIGGUN

11-29-2004, 10:17 AM

no R rating?? oh man I'm getting nervous. 1. Mark Steve Johnson now this. I'm getting ify.

having an R rating does not equal a good movie. in recent years ive been amazed w/ the quality of some PG 13 horror films (the Grudge, Ring, ect) and was suprised how much they got away w/ on screen. from the sound of things MSJ plans to do the same thing. personally ive always liked suggested horror rather than in your face horror. both have their place of course but to me it takes more skill from a director to suggest something horrible in a film rather than showing it full on. i really dont need to see Blackheart tear someone's limbs off in full color. you could simply hear the man's wild screams and the sound of muscle and bone tearing. leave the rest to the audience....they dont need to see everything. i can understand your worry about MSJ...to me MSJ still needs more experience however alot of my worries were put to rest when i read his responses to our questions. at least we know this is going in the right direction.
as far as Goyer is concerned i remember reading he was getting exec. prod. a long time ago....cool that he confirms it now. this is an excellent sign that they want some of his ideas in the film. i didnt like his take on GR....very little resemblence to the comic and average characters. But his ideas on GR's powers were awesome! cant wait to see some of those

TheVileOne

11-29-2004, 10:33 AM

You guys remember why Goyer left the project right? He said the studio was turning this movie into a "family film."

BIGGUN

11-29-2004, 10:46 AM

You guys remember why Goyer left the project right? He said the studio was turning this movie into a "family film."

yes but you have to remember the time when this was announced. this was shortly after 9/11 and movie studios were looking to make movies less violent and geared more towards happy crap. however later films (may have started w/ Fellowship of the Ring) that were rated PG13 started showing darker themes and became more violent.
do you really think that GR would be made into a kiddie fest after the success of such violent films like the Lord of the Rings, The Grudge, or The Ring? i dont think so. Hollywood sees that there is big money in bloodless but scary, dark and violent horror films...more so probably than in bloody R-rated horror films. to make GR into a kiddie/family film would outright betray the source material and Marvel is known for staying very close to the heart and soul of the original books.

Hunter Rider

11-29-2004, 07:41 PM

Part of me wishes Goyer were writing the script b/c i think he's the best comic book adapter in the biz but i read his intial script draft and it didnt blow me away.The whole R rated thing is moot it's not and thats that....Just remember these days you can get away with a lot more in a pg-13 than used to especially where characters that are very far removed from reality are concerned.

The Flash

11-29-2004, 10:03 PM

I'm not at all worried about the the fact that it's PG-13. I've seen lots and lots of violent movies with a lot of blood and death in them that have a PG-13 rating, and those were very violent. It would've been great if GR did have an R rating because of a lot of violence, but now it doesn't bother me as much that it doesn't. So I'm cool. :ghost:

FlameHead

12-01-2004, 12:52 AM

The pg-13/r rating issue has been a major one for a while now. The way I look at it that we're very lucky to be getting any movie on this character at all. We need to trust thier decision in rating and wait to see how it looks.

I'm just happy it's being made. Thay could make him a teletubbie Ghost Rider and I wouldn't care... that much...

TheVileOne

12-01-2004, 01:48 PM

Its not the PG-13 that bothers me guys. What bothers me is that the studio going to cut this up and try to turn into a family, superhero film and make it more "Spider-man" like they did the theatrical cut with Daredevil. The last movie Mark Steven Johnson directed.

Take King Arthur for instance, the movie was medicore and did very poorly. The movie was supposed to be a hard-R rated WINTER picture. Instead Disney butchered it into a PG-13 movie and tried to make it into a family-friendly SUMMER picture. Basically they thought they could turn KING ARTHUR into another Pirates and that plan failed miserably.

Hunter Rider

12-01-2004, 02:15 PM

I know where your coming from vile but DD was at fox and GR is at sony/columbia so msj might not encounter the same problems as he did at fox.
This is one of the things that makes me glad that cage has signed b/c he's a big hitter and i think he will help msj keep his vision for GR true to the character.
The thing with pg-13 rated films since LOTR is you can get away with more than you used to be able to.

FlameHead

12-02-2004, 11:25 PM

Vileone, no matter what the prouction company, director, and everyone else involved do, you will not see a Spider-Man style movie. Ghost Rider isn't a hero of that sort and will not be treated the same way. If you know Ghost Rider at all then you should realize that this isnt' going to be your typical superhero movie. This movie will tell the tragic tale of Johnny Blaze... a man who sold his soul to save the life of the person he loved but ends up getting possessed by a maniacal demon. This ain't your teenage boy bitten by a spider type story. It's dark in design already and there is nothing they can do to make it a childrens flick... PG 13 or not.

RedIsNotBlue

12-03-2004, 11:25 AM

Hmmm....well I am worried about PG-13 but not in a big way like some people. I just have a bad feeling inside from past movies with the same deal. Let's take Spawn for example...very similar to Ghost Rider and IMO could have done a lot better if it had an R rating. Giving that movie a PG-13 rating was a mistake. Also take Daredevil for another example...PG-13 rating with some content cut out to make it that way. Now with the Director's Cut out I am hearing a lot more people raving about it with the new scenes and R rating. But I am not immensly worried about the rating but there is just something inside of me that says there MIGHT be a chance that it hurts it. I am praying and hoping that they don't try to turn it into a movie for all ages and stray away from the comic character.

FlameHead

12-05-2004, 01:08 AM

I just watched the DareDevil DC and I have to admit that it was indeed much better. I don't think it was the R-rating though. The only thing that I noticed which made it an R-rating was the language but, that's all. It was the missing footage (and the rearrangment of old) that made it better... much better.

Having said that, I just read a newspaper article about David Goyer and the Blade franchise. They were talking about the success of that franchise and Goyer thinks the movies have succeeded because he refused to drop the R-rating. He could be right on that but I personally believe that the character and image of Ghost Rider is all that's needed to make this movie succeed. We'll see though..

BIGGUN

12-05-2004, 01:19 AM

He could be right on that but I personally believe that the character and image of Ghost Rider is all that's needed to make this movie succeed. We'll see though..

also GR dispatched the bad guys in a completely different operandi. GR doesnt kill humans and although Blade killls vampires they still look very human so i can see why the ratings board might have a problem w/ that. It just wouldnt look right if every time Blade was gonna cut a vampire the camera cuts away from not showing anything get hacked off, ect. it wouldnt have been believable that a dude armed to the teeth w/ edged weapons wouldnt be causing some serious damage to lots of people.
Blade could have made it w/ a PG 13 but it wouldnt have been the cult hit it is today...i do think the gore did play into that a bit.

FlameHead

12-06-2004, 02:20 AM

Yeah, the gore was pretty important in the Blade movies... especially considering it's all about vampires. What's a vampire movie without Blood? Blood means R.

Ghost Rider doesn't need blood... or bathtubs full of it anyway. He's only gonna beat on the blood spilling human for a while before penance staring their ass. No killing is involved in that. No R.

BIGGUN

12-06-2004, 08:41 AM

a lil' bit mo' from goyer from an interview w/ Chud.com
not much just says he might get some credit for the ideas used in the new script:

"Q: Can you give us a rundown on your other comic projects?

Goyer: I did an early draft of Dr. Strange that’s languishing at Sony. I did a draft of Ghost Rider with Steven Norrington when Nic Cage was going to do it, and small bits of that are going to show up in the thing Mark Stephen Johnson is doing, but that’s a completely different take. I don’t know, I might get story credit on that."

Hunter Rider

12-06-2004, 06:52 PM

The Flash

12-06-2004, 07:11 PM

Thanks HR! My friend The Kryptonian made it for me. I love yours too.

Hunter Rider

12-07-2004, 09:46 AM

Thanks HR! My friend The Kryptonian made it for me. I love yours too.
thanx mine was done by cconn:up:

TheVileOne

12-07-2004, 04:07 PM

Flamehead, I know who the hell Ghost Rider is dude, and I know that he is nothing like Spider-man. That's not the point. Daredevil is nothing like Spider-man either, but that didn't keep the studios and producers from trying to make the movie Spider-man v. 2.0.

I'm just saying, that the studios will try to make this movie as "audience friendly" as possible and if that means dumbing or toning down the content so THEY think it can reach a wider audience they will do it. I don't see anything wrong with being cynical about this, especially knowing what we know about Ghost Rider's history.

the SPAWN movie BTW was a joke, and a cheesy piece of crap.

I know Nicholas Cage is a heavy hitter, Hunter Rider, but so was Ben Affleck when he signed up for Daredevil, and that didn't keep Johnson's vision of the movie intact. I don't see how Cage's casting will do this unless he has some sort of executive or producer power.

FlameHead

12-09-2004, 11:40 PM

No need to get upsede dude. We're just having a conversation.

No, there's nothing wrong with being cynical but you also have to look at the other side of the coin as well; there's nothing wrong with being optomisitc. Most of us that chat here in the Ghost Rider section are huge fans of the character. We're hoping to get a great product and from what has been told to us so far, most of us believe we will get that.

No matter what the studio's try to do they can't make this any more audience friendly that what the image will allow. Ghost Rider is a demon with a flaming skull who carries out acts of vengeance. It's the character. Nothing that they do will change that and because of that, they won't be able to 'friendly' it up as much as you think they will.

As for Cage, he's been with the project from the start. He has more pull than you would think.

Marcus M.

06-20-2005, 06:22 PM

Does anyone know if Goyer's script is online? Has anyone seen it? All I can find are reviews.

BIGGUN

06-20-2005, 07:05 PM

i scanned a few pages for MarvelMovie's site:
http://www.digitalentropy.net/Internapse/page/gr/GRScript.html

its only a few pages though...but we both did a short review on it.

as far as i know no one has the entire script online yet

HighVoltage

06-21-2005, 12:07 AM

So this David Goyer script for Ghost Rider was good or bad??

BIGGUN

06-21-2005, 01:16 AM

So this David Goyer script for Ghost Rider was good or bad??

the GR scenes were very cool....everything else was blah...
it was your basic, run of the mill action film. had very little to do w/ the comic.
obviously not one of Goyer's best.
i go into more detail in that review over at MarvelMovie's site

aaron

06-21-2005, 08:43 AM

do the top sreenwriters get paid well?

FlameHead

06-22-2005, 08:02 AM

the GR scenes were very cool....everything else was blah...
it was your basic, run of the mill action film. had very little to do w/ the comic.
obviously not one of Goyer's best.
i go into more detail in that review over at MarvelMovie's site

It's a shame really becaue Goyer is a really great writer. I mean, Batman Begins was some of the best written stuff I ever watched. That story was brilliant.

Perhaps if he had more time to work on it (if he wanted too I mean), it couldn't have turned into something awesome... not that I'm not happy with how things are going now.

Hey MM, how do places like Drew's Script-O-Rama (http://www.script-o-rama.com/) get thier scripts? Do they just post them or do they have to get permission first?

FlameHead

06-22-2005, 09:22 PM

Awesome. I'd really like to read it, as I'm sure many would. I think Goyers a great writer and I'm sure it's a good read, even if it's not right for the final movie.

Let us know what Drew says.

Mr Nick

06-25-2005, 03:38 AM

I haven't read Goyer's script, but, after watching Blade: Trinity, I was a bit apprehensive about the quality of his Ghost Rider script. However, I just saw Batman Begins, which he wrote along with Christopher Nolan, and it was great. Really, really strong.

:up:

FlameHead

06-25-2005, 07:29 AM

Very stong. He's a brilliant writer, especially in this genre. He's just not a good director.

I guess MM never heard back from Drew yet.

FlameHead

07-21-2005, 07:22 AM

Just wanted to let everyone know (if you didn't already) that MM is taking much of his valuable time to type up the entire script for posting online. It's not complete yet but from his site, he says he's pretty close.

I just wanted to take this time to thank MM for all his hard work. It's going to be nice to finally read that script and it's all because of you my friend.

Now hurry up and get it done. LoL.

TheShadow

07-21-2005, 01:20 PM

BIGGUN

07-21-2005, 11:47 PM

round of applause for MarvelM and his 12 hours of hard work :up:
good job there dude...thats something i would not want to do.
this way anyone that wants to see what Goyer had in mind can just download the script themselves.
lots of fans will enjoy that...

InVictus

07-22-2005, 03:24 AM

I've just finished to read it....
As i thought it does have some really cool cinematics/ideas....i liked especially the narrator's voice identity...and part of the ending. Also "the devil" here is quite well defined... just as MSJ said about his own take on Mephisto, a distinct pact dealer...
And GR shows up...four times, but all that senseless violence....yeah it's cool, but after the second appearance the reader starts to be...annoyed. He only waits until GR comes in to break helll loose. And yes, the spirit of corruption idea is somewhat original(err Constantine^^; ) but the character is not well developed, GR need his established comics enemies, Scarecrow, Blackout, Mephisto or BH(and MSJ probably choosed the last two because they are more linkable also to the first GR).
But i liked very much the room full of explosives gag, that was the perfect kind of dark humour i woul like to see in the movie, it fits well with the themes..
I had also problems with the mindless minions Goyer puts in every movie..here they were the demonic wolf things, too much screentime in GR bashing them, too much of them, they slow down the narration.
I also think that "fusing" Roxanne with Barbara Ketch comatose condition did worked well...but did not with GR absorbing fire to become stronger...playing GR as a fire sucker/shooter somehow makes him be less supernatural, like a machine you know how it works...

FlameHead

07-22-2005, 08:13 AM

Howdy, Howdy...

THE SCRIPT IS ONLINE!!!!

www.IGR.notlong.com

ENJOY!!!

:D

My fingers are dead from typing this thing

:D

Thanks a million for doing this MM. That's 12 hours of your life you'll never get back... but you sure but a lot of smiles on a lot of fans faces.

You rock!

Now, if only I can find the time to read it.

BURNFOREVER

07-22-2005, 06:48 PM

Congratulations, MM.
You´re a GR fan that make us all proud.
Keep the excelent work.
Take care.

FlameHead

07-27-2005, 02:51 PM

It really says something that I have had this script for a long time now and haven't been able... wanting to finish it. I'm about 30 pages in and I'm just not interested.

I guess I should finish it though...

Isildur´s Heir

07-27-2005, 04:49 PM

He's a brilliant writer, especially in this genre.
Are we talking about the same David Goyer?
The one that wrote The Crow: City of Angels, Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Blade, Batman Begins.......that David Goyer? :confused:

Because he is hardly brilliant...and if he is, he hasn´t shown it yet, because all his scripts are not that great.
He does know how to write action, but he sucks at characterization dn drama.

Vartha

07-28-2005, 01:43 AM

Man MM, I can't wait to read the script. You rock dude, for taking the time to do that.

Man-Thing

07-29-2005, 12:39 AM

Dear Marvel Movies,

You are like the Matt Drudge of all things Ghost Rider.

Hugs,
Terry "The Hulk" Hogan.

Man-Thing

07-29-2005, 12:41 AM

Note:

By the request of Sony Pictures, I have followed through and removed the script from distributing.

That must mean there are a lot of elements in the new script.;)

FlameHead

07-29-2005, 08:39 AM

Ah well... it's too bad it's been taken offline but, it was fun while it lasted. I bet you wish you didn't spent 12 hours typing it up now. Thanks again for that.

Batman Begins was his best work I think... script wise.

The Blades weren't that bad either, but did lack a little something, though were still great action.

Def an action writer though, especially from the Ghost Rider script

Yeah, I thought BB was a fantastic piece of work. The plotline of that one worked so freakin' well. Brilliant. I think Goyer is a great writer.

aaron

08-13-2005, 03:51 AM

how much would goyer have got paid for doing the ghost rider script?

FlameHead

08-15-2005, 06:32 AM

Damned if I know. Probably more than he deserved.

Red

05-24-2006, 03:01 PM

Sorry to make a thread about this but it seemed the only way. Anyone got a link to his R-rated version of the script.

Bishop2

05-24-2006, 07:54 PM

I have a copy but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share due to legal issues. Meh.

Red

05-25-2006, 02:28 AM

Can you PM me it.

aaron

05-25-2006, 08:59 AM

Sony were obviously worried about it, :(

it was only a few pages anyway though, wasnt it?

Mr Nick

05-25-2006, 10:17 AM

Bummer. After all that work!

:(

Red

05-25-2006, 10:33 AM

Did you not read the ENTIRE post by Bishop2.

"I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share due to legal issues"

Your post ASKS HIM to SHARE!

Hahah, never fails.

If it's over PM's who's gonna know?

wolfsfang

05-25-2006, 10:48 AM

If it's over PM's who's gonna know?

Everybody.

You asked on a normal thread for someone to PM it to you

tamron

07-06-2006, 10:26 AM

In that TV Guide interview on the frontpage:

TVGuide.com: And are you still doing a remake of the fondly remembered Soylent Green (http://online.tvguide.com/newsearch/detail.aspx?id=21373&sourcetype=M&tvobjectid=118609)?
Goyer: We're slowly moving on that. I've got a movie, Jumper, with [director] Doug Liman (Mr. and Mrs. Smith, the Bourne Identity films) based on a Steve Gould novel, and I've also written Ghost Rider, which is for the first quarter of 2007. It's an adaptation of a Marvel Comic with Nic Cage.

I thought MSJ said GR has nothing to do with Goyer's old script. So what's up with Goyer's comment? Or am I mistaken?

FlameHead

07-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Wow. As far as we know, Goyers script was tossed and a whole new one was written. Perhaps some of the ideas were used but, I find it strange that Goyer is trying to take credit for the movie.

Hmm... interesting find. Perhaps MSJ can shed some light on it if he ever returns.

xii22_loop

07-06-2006, 11:35 AM

well Goyer may have some bad spots on his resume, but he did Batman Begins, so he isn't that bad??

FlameHead

07-06-2006, 11:43 AM

Not at all. I think Goyer is probably the most talented comic book writer out there right now. He definatly has talent. I just don't understand why he's taking credit for something that's not entirely, or very much at all, his.

BIGGUN

07-06-2006, 08:00 PM

he could have also been misquoted too....he might have said "yeah i did a script a few years ago and they took some ideas from it" and TVGuide just went ahead and printed that it was all Goyer's.
unless MSJ, Sony, Columbia Pictures, Marvel are just outright lying Goyer had very little to do w/ the current script

zer00

07-06-2006, 08:42 PM

Well from the sound of it some stuff of his still remains. Much in the same way I guess some stuff from Abrham's Superman script survived in SR but as only faint shadows of itself. And he could have been misquoted. He probably didn't mean it literally though.

Retroman

07-07-2006, 12:51 AM

Maybe some of his ideas survived in MSJ's script?

BIGGUN

07-07-2006, 01:13 AM

Maybe some of his ideas survived in MSJ's script?

yup...at least a few. namely the scene where GR melts the asphalt in the street and blows out windows as he roars past.
another scene that made it was the jail scene where Blaze frantically begs the guards to get him out of the cell from the other inmates. he struggles to keep GR from getting out and doing them some damage which in the Goyer script GR kills all of them.....

Retroman

07-07-2006, 01:45 AM

yup...at least a few. namely the scene where GR melts the asphalt in the street and blows out windows as he roars past.
another scene that made it was the jail scene where Blaze frantically begs the guards to get him out of the cell from the other inmates. he struggles to keep GR from getting out and doing them some damage which in the Goyer script GR kills all of them.....
:eek: Thanks for that info, didn't know those were his ideas.:ghost:

FlameHead

07-07-2006, 10:17 AM

Me either. I couldn't finish reading all of Goyer's script as it just wasn't the Ghost Rider script I was waiting for. I love Goyer and all but, I sure am happy his script wasn't used.

I guess he'll have writting credits afterall, which really isn't a bad thing. Goyer is pretty hot property right now and could draw a few people to the flick.

Midnyte_Sun

07-07-2006, 05:20 PM

I liked Goyer's script. Especially in the scene he wrote where Ghost Rider punches through a guy's face. I say bring on the violence. Its going to be interesting to see how MSJ pulls this movie off with a PG13 type of rating.

NDX

07-07-2006, 09:41 PM

str8raz0r

07-07-2006, 11:15 PM

I believe since Goyer wrote the original script, he'd get writing credits along the line. I still need to get through the Goyer's script. It was not that bad of a script, what I read, but I kept thinking Man-Thing with all the Native American references.

Now, if only Goyer could've written the actual Man-Thing movie!

It was charming 80's-style monster trash, but it wasn't Man-Thing...not by a long shot.

Back on track, however, I can certainly see where MSJ while looking over Goyer's script, could pluck out some of the cooler elements while making it his own. Do things certainly need to have the same context? Prolly not.

Hell, with some of the visual ideas used, I can certainly see where some ideas might seem "shared." I mean, GR driving so fast that windows shatter? It's an obvious money shot for the movie.

BURNFOREVER

07-08-2006, 01:49 AM

Of course i respect all opinions, brothers of the board, but the Goyer´s GR script is really, really bad. He really doesn´t know nothing about the character.
MSJ´s is far better.
Lots of violence?
If the script does not bring justice to the Demon Cyclist, it´s useless.
MSJ´s script has Caretaker, Mephisto, Blackheart, Wallow and who knows anybody else from the comics. That´s enough or me. I have faith on him.
His vision of the character seems to be very cool.
Let´s wait!
:ghost: :up:

BIGGUN

07-08-2006, 02:21 AM

Goyer had some really cool ideas...but his characters sucked.
Blaze was ok...but his backstory was completely lost. no carny background, no Crash Simpson or even Barton Blaze, and he was a convict to boot! sorry but Blaze was never a con...he became wanted by the police because of what GR did but Blaze himself never went out of his way to break the law. he was written as a classic "good guy" who got himself in a really bad deal which he didnt deserve.
another bad aspect is "Ghost Blaze"...lord almighty did that idea suck! everytime GR spoke you would see Blaze's (Nic Cage's) face over the skull. horrible HORRIBLE idea. i went into more in that review that i did for MarvelMovie's site...i could go on and on heh
this would have been a pretty good action/horror film...if it wasnt called Ghost Rider.
from what MSJ told us it sounds like his movie will stick pretty close to the original story w/ a few changes. personally im far more excited for this version than Goyer's.

Mr Nick

07-08-2006, 05:49 AM

another bad aspect is "Ghost Blaze"...lord almighty did that idea suck! everytime GR spoke you would see Blaze's (Nic Cage's) face over the skull. horrible HORRIBLE idea.

That would definitely have sucked.

:eek:

NDX

07-08-2006, 05:58 AM

another bad aspect is "Ghost Blaze"...lord almighty did that idea suck! everytime GR spoke you would see Blaze's (Nic Cage's) face over the skull. horrible HORRIBLE idea.

Maybe it's a good thing I haven't gotten around to finishing the script.

RedIsNotBlue

07-08-2006, 06:03 AM

Looks to be a misquote.

Hiruu

07-08-2006, 07:33 AM

FlameHead

07-08-2006, 10:24 AM

Goyer f$#ked up Blade III, so he's step a notch down on that film for me, as he helmed what he wrote, so the blame has to lie squarely on him. BB was a very well written film, so he gained some credit back...but after Blade III...it takes more than one film to erase that "stinker" debt

I'm not sure it was the writting of the film that was the problem. Goyers script was not horrible for Blade III. The problem came when they decided to give him director reigns and we can all easily tell now that that was a huge mistake. As a writer, he's brilliant. As a director, he's just a nob. I mean, Noob.

Mr Nick

07-08-2006, 12:46 PM

And Dracula was rubbish too. He looked like a bouncer.

:ghost:

NDX

07-08-2006, 09:24 PM

Dracula was poorly designed, and as much as I like that actor (name escapes me), he was not right for the role. Just came off as very awkward throughout the whole film.

antariksh

07-09-2006, 10:17 AM

http://www.latinoreview.com/news.php?id=699

DAREDEVIL 2 might happen.

SORRY i posted here!!

there is no daredevil board here so i thought since msg did daredevil some of u might be interested.

Mr Nick

07-09-2006, 12:58 PM

Ta, Antariksh.

He's a funny guy. It's a shame he won't be in Transformers. I thought he might be doing Optimus Prime's voice.

I really hope Daredevil 2 does happen. I thought it was a very solid and faithful movie (the Director's Cut, that is). Crucify me if you want, but I thought Ben Affleck was excellent. He really made me feel for the character and the hell he went through. Duncan himself was so cool and scarily huge, just like his character! All that negativity about his casting as Kingpin seems silly now. I can't imagine anyone else playing him.

On a side note, I find it quite amusing (and romantic) that Daredevil and Elektra are married! Aww, I do love a happy ending.

:)

FlameHead

07-15-2006, 01:30 PM

You know Nick, I had no problems with Ben either. I don't have a whole lot of DD or Matt knowledge but, he seemed fine in the role... and again, I'm talking about the DC version. You know, the one that actually tells a story about Matt and you actually get a chance to know what he's about outside of the costume.

Retroman

07-18-2006, 01:41 PM

Check out this old interview with Goyer from 2001. Just to show how long GR took to get to the big screen.

Q8. It's well-known that the Blade II and Ghost Rider projects are moving along. What can we as fans expect from this pair of films?

A8. Blade II is coming along excellently. The film is beautiful and should easily exceed the first movie in terms of scope, style, and substance. I'm having a blast here in Prague. We're about half-finished and I think fans are going to soil their undies. Swear to god. Ghost Rider is moving into pre-production. We have a script and are scouting locations, doing visual effects tests. We're in the midst of negotiating a deal with a certain star and if things go well, there should be an announcement in the next few weeks. We'll probably have a September start on that movie. Blade II will probably come out next March.
Source: http://www.shotgunreviews.com/bigq/bigq052901_2.html

NDX

07-18-2006, 01:53 PM

BIGGUN

07-18-2006, 02:01 PM

I remember reading in the letter pages of the comic that they were discussing the GR movie back in 1996. I also remember reading articles back 1999/2000 where Cage said he wanted to do Ghost Rider and Iron Man films.

Damn, I've been waiting a long time for this film.

it was even earlier than that i think...maybe even in 91 or 92 they were talking about a GR film in the letters section. then again they talked about a movie all the way back in 1982 or 83 in the letters section of the 70's/80's GR series.

someone mentioned that the 80s movie The Wraith was supposed to be the pilot for a GR tv series. from what i remember Blaze would have worn a helmet and didnt change into a flaming skeleton...instead his skin turned pasty white.
...so glad that didnt happen..

zer00

07-18-2006, 02:02 PM

heh I remember that

NDX

07-18-2006, 02:04 PM

it was even earlier than that i think...maybe even in 91 or 92 they were talking about a GR film in the letters section. then again they talked about a movie all the way back in 1982 or 83 in the letters section of the 70's/80's GR series.

someone mentioned that the 80s movie The Wraith was supposed to be the pilot for a GR tv series. from what i remember Blaze would have worn a helmet and didnt change into a flaming skeleton...instead his skin turned pasty white.
...so glad that didnt happen..

But I believe 1996 is when Marvel started to sell off the movie rights to their movies to studios like Sony, Fox and Universal, was it not?

And as good a movie The Wraith was, glad that was not the Ghost Rider series.

FlameHead

07-21-2006, 11:38 AM

it was even earlier than that i think...maybe even in 91 or 92 they were talking about a GR film in the letters section. then again they talked about a movie all the way back in 1982 or 83 in the letters section of the 70's/80's GR series.

someone mentioned that the 80s movie The Wraith was supposed to be the pilot for a GR tv series. from what i remember Blaze would have worn a helmet and didnt change into a flaming skeleton...instead his skin turned pasty white.
...so glad that didnt happen..

I remember us talking about that movie a while ago but, I can't really remember us talking about it being a pilot for a GR Tv series. That's pretty awesome... though, I'm with you; I'm very happy it didn't work out.

By the way, that thread is here: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161701

BIGGUN

07-21-2006, 06:07 PM

But I believe 1996 is when Marvel started to sell off the movie rights to their movies to studios like Sony, Fox and Universal, was it not?

And as good a movie The Wraith was, glad that was not the Ghost Rider series.

well actually GR was licensed to Savoy Pictures back in 1992/1993. i found out from the man himself Avi Arad. he even told me they had a mock up movie poster already made... think they had the rights for awhile. Goyer wrote a script around 95/96 and those early cgi test shots were about the same time

BIGGUN

07-21-2006, 06:09 PM

I remember us talking about that movie a while ago but, I can't really remember us talking about it being a pilot for a GR Tv series. That's pretty awesome... though, I'm with you; I'm very happy it didn't work out.

By the way, that thread is here: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161701

ahhh..thanks for finding that FH. forgot they were even going to have painted flames on the helmet..lol! how lame.....pasty face bike rider w/ painted flames on the helmet. yeah...sounds like a winner to me! :)

FlameHead

07-23-2006, 10:26 AM

God, that would have been horrible and I'm extreamly happy this wasn't what we got as a Ghost Rider adaptation.... though, I do remember really liking that movie back in the day. I remember being surprised that we chatting about it that time because it was a childhood fave of mine that I completly forgot about.

Kane

09-05-2006, 12:59 PM

Wow, I really apologize for bringing this tread back up. I have been having problems using the search function lately, and I just managed to find this thread via Google. But, it does relate to what I was hoping to find...

Anyways, I just thought I'd ask the obvious:

Is it still possible that I could read this draft of the script? I have always been really interested in reading it, but I missed my chance when it appeared online and I wasn't aware of it. Is it still prohibited from being online? I've searched e-Bay for it, but it appears it isn't there anymore. I've been really desperate lately to track this down. Yet, I'm quite aware that I may never get a chance to read it.

Again, I apologize for bringing up an OLD thread for a question like this.

batman strikes

09-05-2006, 01:20 PM

Yeah man I know what you me, I to would love to read this script. If anybody they should send pm's only to the people who want it.

Bishop2

09-07-2006, 10:33 AM

It's a very interesting script, but ultimately quite bad. Quite.

There's at least one idea in it that obviously was carried over to the MSJ film, though...

MSJ has mentioned a scene where Blaze is led into jail and is terrified, not because of the people inside but because of what he knows he might do to them. This exact concept is explored in Goyer's script.

Midnyte_Sun

09-07-2006, 09:36 PM

I thought Goyer's script was marvelous. I loved how he described Ghost Rider's powers. Theres a scene where hes in stand off with his bike with 2 guys staring him down, when one guys pulls a gun, GR goes 0-60 in a heartbeat, grabs a guy by his head, burns him to a crisp while he's still driving.

And ofcourse my favorite scene that it described was the scene where he manipulates the fire coming out of an engine to not allow it to start. Afterwards his hands are so hot, he literally melts the door as he tears it off its hinges. He ends up ripping the truck in half and giving the penance stare to one of the drivers who ends up being burned in the process.

The way Goyer described the Ghost Rider was a very horrific and tortured soul, a true curse. I hope that MSJ shows that this is not some batman alter-ego, but a source of endless misery to Johnny Blaze, no matter how terrifying powerful the entity of Zarathos (GR) is.

Midnyte_Sun

09-07-2006, 09:40 PM

Alright guys for your viewing pleasure, I present to you the few pages of the script that I managed to retain:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5104/script02wa2.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4569/script03up9.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4325/script04dl5.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/608/script05hl2.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6279/script06ca3.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5703/script07vs0.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=script08ob0.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5007/script09nw1.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4589/script10ou4.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9839/script11zh9.jpg

Bishop2

09-11-2006, 09:06 AM

Now, it's only occasional that Ghost Rider kills wantonly in the comics, but it does happen with some writers. So I can swallow that in a Ghost Rider film - that element of Goyer's script was okay with me.

But there were so many unanswered questions - it's got like three cliffhangers when it's all over, because there's so much nonsense. A basis in mysticism and heavenly lore does not grant you the right to have so little internal logic. The "villian" is painfully lame - a thug who's abusive against women who gets granted the power to decay things. Whee. The portrayal of the devil himself is pretty hilarious, though. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but there it is.

The ultimate kicker for me though is that Ghost Rider will go after ANYONE and EVERYONE who even entertains a single sinful thought, complete with murder on his mind. The female lead at one point hopes to see suffering come to the men who have tormented her and her child for years on end - the men who have been attempting to beat them, kill them, rape her, whatever. Ergo, her desire to see them pay for this is hardly an unreasonable desire. But because of this one "sinful" desire, the Rider goes after her and does its damnedest to kill her! Holy crap! By this logic, the Rider should be killing HUMANITY AS A WHOLE. I really hated this particular twist on the character, which absolutely lost touch with its core.

To say nothing of the whole "fire gives the rider his power" thing. I mean, at one point in the script, when the Rider is weakening, the only way to get a new lease on life is to eat burning cinders - which renews him in a fashion similar to how Blade gets revived by drinking blood in his first and second movies.

Sigh. It was kind of a mess.

Kane

11-04-2007, 04:35 PM

Hate to bring back an old thread, but I was just wondering if anybody has David Goyer's draft of Ghost Rider? PM if you have it, and we can discuss a deal. I really want to read this, and see how it is. Thanks!

Cain Estrell

11-04-2007, 10:54 PM

Man o man, just looking at how masterfully-done Goyer’s style with words are, really leads me to realize that - I’ve still got A LOT to go through in this business :wow:!

And I have to admit, the Goyer script truly outshines MSJ’s by a milestone in terms of the creativity department alone! But just like Bishop2 said:

The ultimate kicker for me though is that Ghost Rider will go after ANYONE and EVERYONE who even entertains a single sinful thought, complete with murder on his mind. The female lead at one point hopes to see suffering come to the men who have tormented her and her child for years on end - the men who have been attempting to beat them, kill them, rape her, whatever. Ergo, her desire to see them pay for this is hardly an unreasonable desire. But because of this one "sinful" desire, the Rider goes after her and does its damnedest to kill her! Holy crap! By this logic, the Rider should be killing HUMANITY AS A WHOLE. I really hated this particular twist on the character, which absolutely lost touch with its core.

*Sigh!* Hardly any spark of humanity left, eh :csad:? Seriously, even Zarathos was better than this.......

Midnyte_Sun

11-04-2007, 11:52 PM

There were lots of parts in that script I heard were just way off topic of what Ghost Rider was all about..for one that the Spirit of Vengeance 'soul hops' and goes from soul to soul...then the whole thing with Psychics and what not.

What I really loved about Goyer's script was the action. Ghost Rider was truly a curse to it's host and he was the last thing you'd ever want to see in your life.

My favorite part is how he describes the audience should have reacted when seeing Ghost Rider - a Great White Shark that has you on his sights...and when he turns away...the whole world sighs in relief!

I loved the idea of how he ripped through the van, how he torched those baddies, and the penance stare effecting both victim and wielder.

Cain Estrell

11-05-2007, 12:08 AM

What I really loved about Goyer's script was the action. Ghost Rider was truly a curse to it's host and he was the last thing you'd ever want to see in your life.

My favorite part is how he describes the audience should have reacted when seeing Ghost Rider - a Great White Shark that has you on his sights...and when he turns away...the whole world sighs in relief!

I loved the idea of how he ripped through the van, how he torched those baddies, and the penance stare effecting both victim and wielder.

Yeah, the action and all that definitely sounds GR material, doesn't it?

But still, the fact that Goyer completely erased any spark of sympathy in the character just throws me off this script!

I never would've taken my family to watch THIS film! It's just plain too cruel & inhuman in nature....

RedIsNotBlue

11-05-2007, 12:09 AM

So in other words the movie would have still been ****ty if Goyer's script was used?

Cain Estrell

11-05-2007, 01:00 AM

So in other words the movie would have still been ****ty if Goyer's script was used?

To put it bluntly.....yeah.

Heck, if I had to pick between Johnson's cheesy work or THIS barbaric nonsense, I'd rather choose the former...

Plus, at least MSJ's film managed to attract some new, younger fans into buying the comic. THIS script, in my opinion, would've only led people to stay away from it, further!

AVEITWITHJAMON

11-05-2007, 06:02 PM

To put it bluntly.....yeah.

Heck, if I had to pick between Johnson's cheesy work or THIS barbaric nonsense, I'd rather choose the former...

Plus, at least MSJ's film managed to attract some new, younger fans into buying the comic. THIS script, in my opinion, would've only led people to stay away from it, further!

Agreed, i'm glad they didnt use Goyer's script, from what i have heard, both Johnny Blaze AND the Ghost Rider were completely unsympathetic or relatable, which both were in MSJ's version IMO.

Had Goyer's version been used, i think there would have been even more unhappy people than there are now, it just isnt the GR i know and love IMO, at least PARTS of MSJ's effort was.

RedIsNotBlue

11-05-2007, 06:07 PM

MSJ just needs to stay away from writing the script. He needs to just stick with the directing and act as sort of a consultant with the hired writer to keep things in line with the comics but other than that keep him away from the script. This is why despite being extremely disappointed with Ghost Rider I am looking forward to MSJ possibly taking on Preacher. The story is already there for him to adapt hard for him to screw up.

Cain Estrell

11-06-2007, 12:53 AM

Had Goyer's version been used, i think there would have been even more unhappy people than there are now, it just isnt the GR i know and love IMO, at least PARTS of MSJ's effort was.

At least the majority of masses whom NEVER even heard of 'Ghost Rider' before seemed to enjoy it, didn't they?

I’ve always loved Blaze during my childhood, and I still do now! Sure, he was never the most morally-upright, virtuous man; I mean, I could still recall a vague image of him leaving dozens of citizens in distress just to save his girlfriend, Rocky (don’t remember what issue that happened, but it did), yet he was still portrayed with a heroic, sympathetic side. He may have been (at times) selfish, and even started to act ruthless once Zarathos’ influence began to take form, but deep down.......he still had a genuine good soul.

Zarathos himself -- for all the violence and the “You fools will DIEEE!” tendency of his, barely resorted to merciless killing (as strange as it sounds, I know!).

^ These qualities were the main redeeming factors of the two characters that made them lovable to me, flawed as they were. As I’m sure the new generations of GR readers will feel the same....

But ALAS! Goyer completely wiped out those traits!!! I hope that all the people who wish this franchise to go ‘darker’ must also realize that ‘dark’ – alone – won’t create a good movie. Sure, all the “Skinner shreds his skin” moments will undoubtedly look cool, but the movie still requires a certain touch for most people to fully enjoy it with; and that’s........heart.

Just by reading the first few pages of his interesting work (plus Bishop2’s startling comments!), it’s obvious that “heart” is what David Goyer’s script clearly lacked.

I’m so glad they kept this monstrosity tucked away.....

Midnyte_Sun

11-06-2007, 09:21 AM

You guys got it all wrong. Goyer's script was flawed, yes, but it wasn't the final script that would have been used for the movie. In fact, the studio was rewriting the script to appease Marvel and were trying to find ways to make it better.

The biggest problem was that that when Sony got the rights, they insisted the movie be PG-13. When Goyer heard the news he quit the project and MSJ stepped in to take over.

In my opinion Goyer would have eventually created one kick-ass script (as he usually does) and under the right director, it would have been one hell of a movie.

Sony just wanted to make a quick buck and MSJ was the eager tool to do it.

AVEITWITHJAMON

11-06-2007, 01:14 PM

At least the majority of masses whom NEVER even heard of 'Ghost Rider' before seemed to enjoy it, didn't they?

I’ve always loved Blaze during my childhood, and I still do now! Sure, he was never the most morally-upright, virtuous man; I mean, I could still recall a vague image of him leaving dozens of citizens in distress just to save his girlfriend, Rocky (don’t remember what issue that happened, but it did), yet he was still portrayed with a heroic, sympathetic side. He may have been (at times) selfish, and even started to act ruthless once Zarathos’ influence began to take form, but deep down.......he still had a genuine good soul.

Zarathos himself -- for all the violence and the “You fools will DIEEE!” tendency of his, barely resorted to merciless killing (as strange as it sounds, I know!).

^ These qualities were the main redeeming factors of the two characters that made them lovable to me, flawed as they were. As I’m sure the new generations of GR readers will feel the same....

But ALAS! Goyer completely wiped out those traits!!! I hope that all the people who wish this franchise to go ‘darker’ must also realize that ‘dark’ – alone – won’t create a good movie. Sure, all the “Skinner shreds his skin” moments will undoubtedly look cool, but the movie still requires a certain touch for most people to fully enjoy it with; and that’s........heart.

Just by reading the first few pages of his interesting work (plus Bishop2’s startling comments!), it’s obvious that “heart” is what David Goyer’s script clearly lacked.

I’m so glad they kept this monstrosity tucked away.....

You do realise i was saying i'm glad Goyer's script wasnt used dont you?

Ha ha believe me, i prefer what we got a lot more than what we could have with script. And the movie got both GR and JB pretty close to their CB counterparts IMO.

You guys got it all wrong. Goyer's script was flawed, yes, but it wasn't the final script that would have been used for the movie. In fact, the studio was rewriting the script to appease Marvel and were trying to find ways to make it better.

The biggest problem was that that when Sony got the rights, they insisted the movie be PG-13. When Goyer heard the news he quit the project and MSJ stepped in to take over.

In my opinion Goyer would have eventually created one kick-ass script (as he usually does) and under the right director, it would have been one hell of a movie.

Sony just wanted to make a quick buck and MSJ was the eager tool to do it.

I dont know, Goyer's Blade 3 script was terrible, and his scripts for both Blade and Blade II were changed vastly when being filmed.

Cain Estrell

11-06-2007, 06:52 PM

You do realise i was saying i'm glad Goyer's script wasnt used dont you?

Ha ha believe me, i prefer what we got a lot more than what we could have with script. And the movie got both GR and JB pretty close to their CB counterparts IMO.

I know, AVE :cwink:. I was just backing up your post about the kind of GR YOU and I love so much -- that just DIDN’T show in any particular way in this version of Goyer’s script; plus point out the fact that a lot of people became new fans of the comic thanks to MSJ’s version (which BTW, mostly consist of younglings that range between 10 to 14 year olds – including my own).

What we need to understand here is that we, the GR fans of old, are now few & dwindling in numbers (no matter what other guys may think, otherwise). In that sense, at least a PG-13 ‘Ghost Rider’ helped assured that - there will still be new generations of Flameheads who’ll be reading this comic when our time is up (which are, obviously, our children). Had Goyer’s script been used, I can just see the faces of so many parents telling their kids to “Stay away from that book!” whenever they see it in stores :whatever:......

Midnyte_Sun

11-06-2007, 07:44 PM

Cain Estrell

11-06-2007, 09:03 PM

Kids these days reading Ghost Rider? Ahem...but reading what? The current comic has T&A, foul language, and excessive blood, gore, and violent action. None of which is acceptable for the 10 and 14 year olds. In fact Jack O Lantern decapitated a teenie bopper in the comic.

Obviously even Marvel itself knows that Ghost Rider is dark in nature, it was Sony and Avi who wanted to make it 'fun for all age groups' like Winnie the Poo...but with his head on fire driving a motorcycle seaking honey..err. vengeance...it was just not anything it was hyped up to be.

Goyer has written some fantastic stuff like Batman Begins, Blade 1&2 and as for Blade III...he didn't care at that point what the movie was going to be like - 2 great directors (both of whom would have been GREAT for Ghost Rider)made his stories Gold, he just wanted to have fun and it showed.

I was referring to the more “superhero-oriented” stories in the seventies that I started in myself – which, as you know – have since been reprinted. I’ve just finished purchasing some of them for my child, awhile back - who loved the movie and, thus, have been begging me to buy some since. Of course, I could NEVER allow her to read the current violent series Dan Way is writing, so as one of the guys at work suggested: “Why not the ones featuring JB in the old days?” So I bought em, and it worked! In time, these kids whom now been exposed to the marvel of GR will become flameheads, themselves – old enough to read even the Vol. 2 and the Vol. 3 series, for that matter.

Personally, I want the 2nd film to be focused more on adult-rated, dark-material myself -- but the fact also remains that Goyer didn’t envision the ideal GR film I crave for – “dark-enough” as it was. Heck, he didn’t even get what the ‘Spirit of Vengeance’ is all about; he just envisioned another ‘monstrous killing machine’ who thinks even the slightest “sin” is already accountable for the electric chair!

Sorry MS :csad:, but as much as this franchise needs enough ‘dark’ to please older, more hardcore fans, I don’t think Goyer is the right man for the job, either. I want someone who can envision not only dark, kickass action -- but also a heartfelt-enough style of characterization that faithfully follows what the comics presented – something that can even make J.M. DeMatteis proud!

The Blade trilogy worked despite almost completely being unfaithful to its (then) comicbook counterpart because – quite frankly – the Blade comic was never really that good prior to Goyer’s “improvised” creation. Goyer just happened to envision a much better idea Marvel liked; and adapted it to their world. As for ‘Batman Begins’ well…..heck, almost everyone knows Batman! You don’t even need an encyclopedia to understand what that character is all about, anymore......so the duo of Nolan and Goyer managed.

Perhaps if Goyer only stayed more faithful to the comic version of GR, then I might have been more accepting of him to go write the films. And who knows, maybe...JUST MAYBE.....the studio were indeed trying to improve his work to fit the comic world, better. But the fact remains that Goyer’s wasn’t that enthusiastic when it came to delivering what Ghost Rider was all about. He basically just recycled all of his previous ideas, mixed them into one....and there it is!

Ghost Rider needs to eat burning cinders to survive :huh:???? Jeeeeezz, what a mess........

AVEITWITHJAMON

11-09-2007, 08:06 AM

I know, AVE :cwink:. I was just backing up your post about the kind of GR YOU and I love so much -- that just DIDN’T show in any particular way in this version of Goyer’s script; plus point out the fact that a lot of people became new fans of the comic thanks to MSJ’s version (which BTW, mostly consist of younglings that range between 10 to 14 year olds – including my own).

What we need to understand here is that we, the GR fans of old, are now few & dwindling in numbers (no matter what other guys may think, otherwise). In that sense, at least a PG-13 ‘Ghost Rider’ helped assured that - there will still be new generations of Flameheads who’ll be reading this comic when our time is up (which are, obviously, our children). Had Goyer’s script been used, I can just see the faces of so many parents telling their kids to “Stay away from that book!” whenever they see it in stores :whatever:......

Oh sorry, i misunderstood you. But yeah your right, people who were not fans of the comic enjoyed this movie, the DVD sales represent that, and so we have some new fans, which is great to see, and if we get a sequel, hopefully it will be even more successful.

Kids these days reading Ghost Rider? Ahem...but reading what? The current comic has T&A, foul language, and excessive blood, gore, and violent action. None of which is acceptable for the 10 and 14 year olds. In fact Jack O Lantern decapitated a teenie bopper in the comic.

Obviously even Marvel itself knows that Ghost Rider is dark in nature, it was Sony and Avi who wanted to make it 'fun for all age groups' like Winnie the Poo...but with his head on fire driving a motorcycle seaking honey..err. vengeance...it was just not anything it was hyped up to be.

Goyer has written some fantastic stuff like Batman Begins, Blade 1&2 and as for Blade III...he didn't care at that point what the movie was going to be like - 2 great directors (both of whom would have been GREAT for Ghost Rider)made his stories Gold, he just wanted to have fun and it showed.

But the scripts for Blade 1 and 2 were quite different to how the movies turned out, Blade III showed what he is truly capable of when left to his own devices and i wouldnt want to see that. IMO GR was vastly superior to Blade III as a movie.

NDX

11-10-2007, 07:43 PM

AVEITWITHJAMON

11-12-2007, 06:06 PM

As unacceptable as they are, that doesn't change the fact that kids those ages are reading the current run. Several of the kids I work with read the comic and ask me why it's different from the movie they saw.

At least they are reading it, which is good in my eyes, and could possibly bode well for the success of a sequel.

GDM

12-06-2007, 02:39 PM

Does anybody have the full Goyer script?
If so could you PM it to me please.

Docker2.0

12-15-2007, 12:55 PM