Ghost Rider's Body Talk

[FlameHead]

I'm wondering what type of Ghost Rider we're going to see. In the comics, our favorite hero's body is shaped by hellfire. His clothes take the form of a very muscular man (which we all know is just bone and hellfire underneath). With the speculation being that Cage's body will be used for most of the action (a skinny Cage at that), will we see the shaply montrosity we're all used to?

How do you all feel about this?

[BIGGUN]

I dont think hes gonna look too buffed out....probably be the same physique as Cage is. i never liked the idea of GR having huge muscles anyway....makes him look too human or even too much like a typical superhero. i remember in the late issues of the 70s GR, ghostie was pretty skinny. no muscle or little muscle definition showed through his costume.
in other superhero films its pretty standard that the hero has to be somewhat buff...normally they will use some kind of sculpted muscle suit to help the actor out a little. w/ GR they dont need it. the audience doesnt need to see him w/ muscles to know hes strong.

i do remember when Goyer was at the helm he did mention that there would be a scene where you would see GR w/out the jacket and that there would be a "musculature" that was made of flames which surrounded GR's bones.

[Hunter Rider]

Well i reckon Cage will bulk up a bit for the role and a mix of buff but not Arnielike is needed,I mean he should have a presence as well as looking fearsome and i think if he's to skinny that won't work,Still if they go the trenchcoat route those things make ppl look larger than they are.
mentioning about seeing whats under the coat brought a scene to my mind,
i think this would look cool: GR surrounded by thugs they all fire their guns at him,we see the bullets rip through his coat in slow mo and through his skeletal hellfire drenched frame they catch fire and come out the other side setting all the thugs alight,GR is left standing surrounded by a bunch of flaming bodies.
sorry for the off topic ramble i got on a roll.;)

[FlameHead]

That sounds awesome Hunter, though I don't think Hellfire would do that... unless they were demons or creatures of the night. Although, anyone who has a bad soul can probably catch afire too, I'm not sure.

I do want to see him getting blown apart by millions of bullets though. I wanna see that happen and him contining to walk forward like we've seen so many times in the comics. It would be great to see bones cracking, clothes being torn apart all all kinds of carnage, none of which phase the Ghost Rider at all. I wanna see how powerful and undefeatable he is.

As for the muscular physicl, I kinda like having that power look... but I do understand what you mean by having a skinny hero. We never see that and would truly look great to see such a scrawny being be so powerful. Perhaps we'll see it as a just a fire and bones type hero at the start but the flame muscle bound demon by the end. MSJ did mention that he would evolve...

[BIGGUN]

GR surrounded by thugs they all fire their guns at him,we see the bullets rip through his coat in slow mo and through his skeletal hellfire drenched frame they catch fire and come out the other side setting all the thugs alight,GR is left standing surrounded by a bunch of flaming bodies.
sorry for the off topic ramble i got on a roll.;)

heh...that would be cool. GR "accidently" kills some bad guys...but he doent seem to care and walks away. maybe right before he leaves he notices one dude is still alive...on the verge of death. but GR gives him the Penance Stare anyway! GR should be a merciless bastard...heh
i always thought that a cool scene would involve something similar to what you described HR...only say the bad guys are lined up w/ their guns and fire away at GR. He just stands there as bullets rip through his costume and skull. maybe they could do some slo mo cgi where you see the bullet rip the leather from the jacket in a long strand....only it slowly flows back to the jacket and "fixes" itself so that the jacket is undamaged. almost like a liquid or water effect maybe.

i noticed in some issues of the 90s series where J. Saltares and Ron Garner were the artists, GR was shown as somewhat stocky. didnt really notice too much muscle definition but he was certainly intimidating.

[Hunter Rider]

Well i think we are all agreed that there must be a scene where GR is hit with everything including the kitchen cink and still keeps coming to display his indestructability(is that a word ?):cool: :ghost:

[FlameHead]

It is most agreed. Nothin' should be able to stop this bad boy. Nothing... except the strong will of Johnny Blaze, that is.

[Hunter Rider]

Sticking with the scene theme,Do you guy's remember the Chase scene MSJ mentioned?Where GR is Chased by police Helicopters and cars.
Well as we know that isn't enough to stop GR so maybe they'll break out the Army and we could get Hellcycle vs Tank:D
wadda ya reckon ?

[FlameHead]

I doubt we'll see that, for two reasons. One, I can't remember them ever sending the army after Ghost Rider. He was always something the Police chased but never the army (from what I know, which is limited to Dan/GR2 mostly). Also, we seen the use of tanks (very well, I might add) in the Hulk movie. It worked for him but wouldn't as well for our boy.

[Hunter Rider]

Your probably right flame i got a bit carried away with My ideas,

[BIGGUN]

Your probably right flame i got a bit carried away with My ideas,

dont hold back dude...some ideas will be better than others but i rather hear them all. :)
i can see them bringing in the army when things REALLY get out of hand. this first film should only deal w/ the local police or state troopers.
if they make sequals it should naturally evolve that the local authorities see GR as a real menace and try to get the FBI involved or some other government agency. the local authorities are helpless and need to do something. calling in some other agency who is better equipped and has better man power would be the smart thing to do..

[FlameHead]

I wasn't tryin' to poop on your ideas HR. Just further discussing them, that's all. Fire away on anything you want to say.

Evolution into some federal agency is how it would likely go, you're right BG. If then, nothing was able to stop, or if he was further confused to be a menace, then the army would probably be called in. Having said that, I doubt we'll see it progress past the police. Mainly because it would take too much screen time away from the necessasy things that need to be told and shown.

... Oh, and with only 40 mill to spare, they ain't getting now tanks to beat up.

[Hunter Rider]

you guys make excellent points,a scene on a smaller scale that might look good is 2 cop cars chasing GR into ally,they have him sanwiched in one chasing from behind the other coming from the front GR just rides along the wall and the two cars crash into each pther...there's a huge explosion with the entire ally engulfed in flames and we see GR actually riding along the walls inside the fire.
I really want to see them use the bike to it's full potential.

[FlameHead]

I'm pretty pumped about the bike as well. There is so much they can do with it, and from MSJ's excitement about the model he had, they probably will be taking advantage

[Doomed Hero Rising]

what does Ghost Rider have for a torso. Is it just fire or just a skeleton or both?

[Abe]

from memory, (in the comic books) it is both a skeletal structure with fire adding the bulk.
make sense? great, now can you please explain it to me? :)

[not_a_victim]

I asked a similar question a while ago, and someone filled me in to the fact that GR is a walking skeleton. Where the extra bulk comes from I do not know.

[Doc D]

For example in issue 42 of the Dan Ketch-GR-series (vol.2) you can see Ghost Rider take off his leather jacket.
Your assumptions are right: skeleton with a lot of Hellfire. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/ghostrider.gif

[FlameHead]

I started a thread a while back asking what Ghost Rider's body will be like in the movie mostly concerning his muscular physique and whether or not he'd have one; http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150313.

Essentially though, he is a skeleton completly surrounded by hellfire. With clothes on, the fire seems to shape his body to look like he has muscles.

[InVictus]

It really depends on the artist, Larroca's concept was a more "solid", compact flesh made by energy/hellfire also with some sparks, as shown when GR take off is jacket (in the red biker costume era), showing quite definite muscle made of hellfire over the bones of the arms.
The Saltares-Texeira duo concept seemed instead to be more like a great amount of fire under pressure under the clothes, with little or no real "mass" but sustaining the trousers as if there where invisible meat. Whereas GR clothes was rip apart ot pierced, hellfire escaped out. GR clothes showed several time some kind of slow regeneration(IE, in about 2 or 3 pages little wound often disappeared), depending on GR state of health.

The original GR had even less hellfire around the bones, but still had the "invisible meat" trick.

[InVictus]

An interesting cover about GR body should be the one when he fights Snowblind, with GR "dead", empty of hellfire, collapsed.

Also i think Saltares-Texeira actually never did GR completely "naked"...only in the Styge issue they draw GR without the jacket...and there we see GR skeletal trunk engulfed with fire, without any body shape, just realistical bones catching fire wery well.

[FlameHead]

Yeah, I can't remember ever seeing him without a jacket and pants, just the skeleton... but I have seen him many times with a lot of it ripped to shreds, bone and hellfire leakin' out everywhere.

[InVictus]

The only times i've seen him only as burning skeleton are when he was killed by the Demogorge, and i think in a funny poster in one of that Marvel Swimsuit Special...:D

[FlameHead]

Um, was Ghost Rider in a Bikini?

[InVictus]

uhm, no, if i remember well he did wear only sunglasses, maybe.

[Darth Elektra]

How Nic Cage Becomes Ghost Rider
Director Mark Steven Johnson explains the look and powers of the Ghost Rider.


Warning: Spoilers

Ghost Rider director Mark Steven Johnson explained for Now Playing magazine how actor Nic Cage's supernatural look comes together in the film.

"This time I actually have a hero who's supposed to be in leather, so I've got that going for me," laughs Johnson, referring to the criticism he got after characters in his Daredevil got all leathered up. "[Blaze] changes throughout the movie. I know some fans have seen shots and they're like, 'Why are the spikes all so small?' It's because he changes his look throughout. Obviously he doesn't know what's going to happen the first time [he becomes Ghost Rider]. He has no gloves on, so he's got skeleton hands. He's got black jeans, a black leather coat and motorcycle boots. The second time, when he breaks out of the jail – not to give too much away – his coat gets ripped and he basically upgrades."

As for the hellfire: "The idea is that hellfire affects metal in a certain way, so when [it] hits a motorcycle, it turns into a hell-cycle. When it hits a shotgun, it turns into a hellfire shotgun. And when it hits the studs in your coat, they pop into these spikes," explains the filmmaker. "It's really cool and it worked really well with the outfit. So he does have the three-inch spikes and the big chain and all that s***," he told the magazine.

The Penance Stare is going to take more work, he admits: "We're still working on [that]," Johnson says. "I don't want to do the little vignettes [type of thing] because we've seen that before – quick little cut pieces of people's sins. [The stare] is when Ghost Rider says 'Look into my eyes' [and he] can look at all the sins they've done to other people and make them relive those sins ten-fold. Ghost Rider doesn't kill anybody, but it's supposed to be a fate worse than death because you're trapped looking at all the s*** you've done to everyone else. So how to do that without it becoming a mini-movie is the challenge."

Cage's co-star Eva Mendes talks about her character witnessing the Ghost Rider transformation: "I do have one scene where I see him changing into Ghost Rider, and that freaks my character out, as it would freak anybody out – seeing somebody change into a flaming skull," says the actress.

But for all of his fire, Ghost Rider is no Human Torch ala Fantastic Four: "He throws hellfire in one scene, which is pretty cool. If there's any fire around him he can manipulate it," explains Johnson. "What I didn't want to do is get into the Human Torch – that's what's really hard about the Marvel characters. There's so many of them. Human Torch or Pyro – you've got to be careful about what makes you different from them."

Ghost Rider premieres next summer.

There you go from the mouth of MSJ.

[Vartha]

It's been kind of explained to me where the extra bulk comes from.
Think about a ghost and how it's form show's it's shape visiably, well it works the same way with GR, but, his body is fire so you can't really SEE the definition unless he's wearing clothing, The body is there just not visible.

[Chaos Bringer]

it might be more frightening if he was just bones. like Deadman.

[NDX]

I prefer a formless flaming skeleton, as if the clothing he wears is keeping his flames in (why it pumps up, out and around his head). The idea from Ivan Valez, Jr. and Salvador Larocca that the flames form a body structure always bothered me.

[FlameHead]

I personally like the formed by flames look. I just can't picture Ghost Rider with all this clothes hangin' off his body. He wouldn't look as menacing in my opinion.

[NDX]

I liked the loose clothing aspect when drawn in the comic because I feel it showed that his power was not based on a muscular pseudo body but of a supernatural origin because he would still beat down his opponent nonetheless.

Or get beaten by one of his own ribs. I really enjoyed reading that.

[FlameHead]

I can certainly agree with what you're sayin' here. There is something special about havin' just a boney guy beat the crap outta you and never backin' down from a beating.

Either way works just fine for me, except I just wouldn't want the clothes hanging off him. I'd want a costume that fits him right, ya know? Sorta like the new Marvel Legends figure. He's skinny as hell and the costume fits him tightly.

[Jedi Master]

yes i agree

[webhead731]

This relates to both the comics and the movie.

Where does his suit come from when Johnny transforms into Ghost Rider? Does he have to have on the GR suit in order to be wearing it as GR?

How will this work in the movie?:confused:

[NDX]

I think the movie will be similar to the 1970s series that he transforms in what he wears, but the hellfire that eminates from his body will manipulate the outfit to look more fitting for a hellcycle riding flaming skull.

[zer00]

What he said.

[webhead731]

Okay, his head is a skull, his hands are boney, what about the rest of him?

His arms, legs, and body look normal. They are bulky and everything. It was like that in the comics.

How is he built? Does anyone know?:confused:

[InVictus]

Think of him like the invisible man. He's a skeleton engulfed in hellfire, when he wears clothes they stand up like there's a body inside, you can imagine the hellfire sustaining them, or an invisible ectoplasmic forcefield human shaped, right? It seems also from the comics that it's the clothes who make "physical" this human outline. Deathwatch once ripped off his jacket, and broke/took out a rib, wich used then to beat GR. So without clothes he's a flaming skeleton, with clothes he's got also this "human shaped field thing".

[Riding Ghost]

Right,
like a hot air balloon. The heat from the fire fills the balloon. Thats the deal with GR, the "pressure" of the hellfire pushes out the cloths. That was actually explained in a "ghost writers" letter section of the 70's series.

[webhead731]

Oh. Okay, thanks.:up:

[zer00]

Hell fire is a wonderful thing

[FlameHead]

Unless it's shot from a gun.

[BrollySupersj]

Unless it's shot from a gun.

nah it's still a good thing then, unless the gun is no more then 4 inches from your face :oldrazz:

[NDX]

Sucks for BBQing, though.

[Savage]

All flesh on his body is pretty much replaced by hellfire. Like someone mentioned earlier, think of the invisible man with a floaming skeleton. If it really was just bones and flames then everytime he's touched, it should look like poking a pillow or something when in fact if he knees you in the face or punches you, it hurts like a sonofab**ch...Just pretend there's an invisible superhuman body there really.

[webhead731]

I bought the recent ToyFare and it had the Ghost Rider figures in it. Caretaker's shirt was open and I saw the body. It looked like a normal human body only made of fire with bones sticking out.

That's pretty cool.:up:

[FlameHead]

All flesh on his body is pretty much replaced by hellfire. Like someone mentioned earlier, think of the invisible man with a floaming skeleton. If it really was just bones and flames then everytime he's touched, it should look like poking a pillow or something when in fact if he knees you in the face or punches you, it hurts like a sonofab**ch...Just pretend there's an invisible superhuman body there really.


Not to say that just bone wouldn't hurt a hell of a lot but, you're right. Hellfire is a force beyond normal flame. It's a powerful entity with many mystical capabilities.

[BIGGUN]

funny thing is ive heard of some complaints about how "cheap" the effects looks becuase it looks like they cgi'd a skull over someones head...which is what they did and had to do if they were to stay faithfull to the comic.
these people are expecting a full flaming skeletal body w/ the clothes hanging off....yeah that would look impressive :whatever:
even my friend was complaining about the same thing...he was expecting GR to have baggy clothes...lol

[FlameHead]

I guess if people don't understand that it's not real fire, then they're probably expecting something that's not from the comic. Personally, I'd rather the humanoid physique much better than baggy clothes. To me, that would just look silly... unless his clothes were all shredded and tattered and hanging off his body.

Of course, there's a chance we'll see that on screen as well, depending on how badly our boy gets beaten.

[Masut]

Stupid thread, but think about it!

:ghost::ghost::ghost::ghost::ghost::ghost::ghost:


It's bugging me. If Johhny becomes a flaming skeleton while Ghost Rider, what's keeping his jacket and those tight leather pants all fleshed out? Is it the hellfire or is it just something we aren't meant to think about, lol.

Maybe this is what they mean by leave your brain at the door, or maybe one of you comic book experts know the answer!

[Pilgrim]

I think the idea is that the hellfire fills it out...I could be wrong.

[superbatxmen]

maybe it is fireproof. Maybe the air hold it on him.

[tzarinna]

Maybe it's all the hot air. :ghost:

[Killgore]

I think the idea is that the hellfire fills it out...I could be wrong.
Then he should of deflated when he was shot.:woot:

[Vartha]

If you look around GR's neck you can see that where Blazes body is fire the firey body does have a form.

[blind_fury]

It's filled with ectoplasma!

Duh!!! :whatever:

[FlameHead]

It's the hellfire.

We actually had a conversation about that a long time ago, during the wondering days.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150313

[HAMACKIE]

You are correct!@ It IS the HELLFIRE... which is supernatural in nature, and should never be thought of as having the same properties of normal fire.

Howard

[Mr Nick]

I think that post can be considered a definitive answer!

:yay:

[Masut]

Well there we have it. Hellfire it is. Thanks everyone. :ghost:

[Kasady]

He's big boned LOL. Yeah its hellfire. Did anyone else notice the Johnny Blaze Marvel Legions figure does look like its just the leather over his skeleton though. There only seems to be hellfire on the top of his head. You can see both his neck and chest bones with no hellfire. He looks very skinny. Didn't think of it untill I saw this post but the hellfire filling out the Dan Ketch GR figure does makes him look 10 times cooler and more badass. Also they call Dan Ketch, Blaze for some reason on the back. And Dan Ketch is only mentioned on the back of the Vengence box.:huh: