Black Panther

[KingOfDreams]

Newsweek put the new Black Panther series in it's checklist for what to buy this week. I've never seen anything about comic books, other than what relates to movies, written about in Newsweek before, so they must be serious about how good it is. :up:

[Invincible]

I'm Getting it

[Marcdachamp]

Picking it up tomorrow.

[Anubis]

Me too.

[PaleRider]

I'll definatly pick it up.

[Lackey]

reviews for it are already up at the fourth rail

7/10 from Don (http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/critiques/013105/blackpanther1.shtml)

and

5/10 from Randy (http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/snapjudgments/013105/blackpanther1.shtml)

[Varient]

Newsweek put the new Black Panther series in it's checklist for what to buy this week. I've never seen anything about comic books, other than what relates to movies, written about in Newsweek before, so they must be serious about how good it is. :up:
Nice to hear,.. I'll get it today.

[Assassin]

I got it, didnt read it yet.

I Hope Hudin does every thing he says hes gonna do with this and MK Spiderman, including Clark Kent working at the same paper as peter (god damnit i cant remember the name)

[KingOfDreams]

Wait a minute, Clark Kent is being featured in a Marvel comic? That's stupid.

[Assassin]

no, it would be for a special assignment, he was transferd over to that daily bugle or what ever its called and then peter and clask find out about each other, a crossover if u would

[KingOfDreams]

I see. This thing actually happened already now that I think about in the Marvel vs. DC limited series that resulted in the Amalgam universe.

[Red Mask]

Randy's criticism of Cap's fight is undeserving. He said Things like revealing that the Golden Age Panther beat the crap out of Captain America, which mostly serves not to make Black Panther look like a badass but to make Cap look like nothing more than a tool of the American government who got slapped down for poking his nose where he didn't belong, an interpretation this Cap fan ain't crazy about.

There's an unwritten law in literature that guest stars don't outshine or beat the story's title character. Black Panther is the main character so he should beat Cap in a fight. And let's not forget that this Cap was still green in those days. He hadn't gained enough experience to be the great hero he is today. In a turn about way, Cap saved Wakanda in his own comic years ago. He repaired his shield and then prevented Klaw from destroying the Vibranium mines. I also recall an Uncanny X-Men issue starring both Captain America and the Black Widow. "Madripoor Knights" I believe it was titled? Wolverine saved Captain America twice in that issue. First when Cap was slashed in the back by the Hand. Then later Logan rescued him and their friends from Von Strucker and the Hand.

[roach]

it was my take on it also...who knows how many months of experience Cap had while the Golden Age BP was already an accomplished fighter......

[MicroLives]

I thought the issue was pretty good. Nothing groundbreaking, but I'll definetely be picking it up next month. I think the whole history behind would-be conquerors of Wakanda was very interesting.

[Marcdachamp]

I thought the issue was pretty good. Nothing groundbreaking, but I'll definetely be picking it up next month. I think the whole history behind would-be conquerors of Wakanda was very interesting.My sentiments exactly. Not bad, but nothing fantastic. I'll stick with it and see where it goes.

I agree with Red Mask. Cap wasn't half the man he was back then. Madripoor Knights is an excellent example (an excellent story as well). I actually thought that the Cap scene was very cool.

[Johnny Blaze]

I really liked this issue alot.
The brief history of Wakanda defending itself from invaders was a nice touch. I thought it was kinda funny how each time they were invaded, they'd bust out with weaponry more advanced than their attackers. :D
The brief fight with Cap was pretty cool and I liked how that General got all upity when he was told that Cap lost.
The ending was decent too; glad to see the Klaw back in the game. I wonder who he was talking to though?

[Varient]

I read it.

I can't complain.

EVERYTHING MADE SENSE.


Wakandans came across like "We want to be left alone,... but if you insist we'll Kick your A-ss."


Nothing arrogant or "superior" about it,.. no attitudes of "Master Race" Bent, Just a group who would rather do their own thing.

I require plots and good writing,.. the story is understated and very good leaving no real questions other than how someone who made that much rank could be that stupid in the US Military.


The stuff involving Captain America made sense, based on the timeframe,

the stuff involving Guns echoed the first 50-11 encounters the Europeans had with the Zulu's before Shaka Zulu was assasinated.

the way they cleaned Ross up was a surprise though,.. I've never seen him so ,... Competent.

All in All,.... :cool: A Good start.

[Red Mask]

Well Varient, I could understand why the people in that room were acting so angry. Not every general in a high seat knows all the World's countries. A small, unknown country tells a super power to get out of their face. The reaction is predictable. Wakanda has a civilization that challenges the ways of the Western industry and politics. But I wish they could have had featured T'Challa himself in here to show what he's done for Wakanda.

The way Hudlin had Ross describe Wakanda's use of resources was interesting. I wonder how they approached it that way so early in history? Did they understand waste build-up already? And why didn't anybody in that room mention the Vibranium? In another thread I speculated on possible invaders in Africa. I realized Wakandans might have advanced themselves because Apocalypse ruled Egypt once. (That's a retcon solution. But it's a good reason to develop stronger defenses.)

As for who those staff members might be a parody of, well:
A parody is just a parody. Somebody has to be the villain. And they're the ones who are striking first. Rice/ Reese doesn't represent the whole Black community just because she's in government. Nor does it make her a traitor to black people. So they're plotting to use a special black ops group to overthrow the king. That's nothing new. America HAS DONE IT before. Also, DC Comics had the Suicide Squad.

[Varient]

Well Varient, I could understand why the people in that room were acting so angry. Not every general in a high seat knows all the World's countries. A small, unknown country tells a super power to get out of their face. The reaction is predictable. Wakanda has a civilization that challenges the ways of the Western industry and politics. But I wish they could have had featured T'Challa himself in here to show what he's done for Wakanda.

The way Hudlin had Ross describe Wakanda's use of resources was interesting. I wonder how they approached it that way so early in history? Did they understand waste build-up already? And why didn't anybody in that room mention the Vibranium? In another thread I speculated on possible invaders in Africa. I realized Wakandans might have advanced themselves because Apocalypse ruled Egypt once. (That's a retcon solution. But it's a good reason to develop stronger defenses.)

As for who those staff members might be a parody of, well:
A parody is just a parody. Somebody has to be the villain. And they're the ones who are striking first. Rice/ Reese doesn't represent the whole Black community just because she's in government. Nor does it make her a traitor to black people. So they're plotting to use a special black ops group to overthrow the king. That's nothing new. America HAS DONE IT before. Also, DC Comics had the Suicide Squad.
There "general" reactions of the US heads with Wakanda were not what I meant.
What I meant was the concept of someone "bright enough" to make it there thru the military,..yet be so unaware of his surroundings to say what he did in the language he had, with someone who actually had power over him, ("shut up General?"), where she could hear and take offense.

[roach]

I just had a problem with his reactions...most Generals arent trying to blow up the world. Most flag officers are well briefed on the subject of meetings before they before cabinet members.....

[WildCard]

it was all right but i had a few problems

(spoilers)

-when is this all taking place, i know most of the story is being told by klaw to some prisoner. But when is the whole white house thing taking place. Ross doesnt seem the same smart alike we know and love, now hes an uptight stickler which makes me think its after priests run where BP disapears so ross goes home. But the way he talks about Wakanda doesnt seem like hes been there or has any relationship with it, which makes me think its before he even knew BP.

-Second , the second to last page some goverment guy asks who they can send to take care of Wakanda and the next page has klaw asking that prisoner if he wants to join his team. Is the Goverment hiring Klaw a known supervillian to take care of wakanda.

-Third didnt klaw die or maybe just deflate in priests run? But he does say some thing about how he killed one BP, T'chaka (T' challa's father), and he almost killed another one but he hurt him. If he is talking about when t'challa hurt Him when t'challa was a child, right after klaw killed his dad then he is totally ignoring the fight in priests run. But he says he almost killed another BP and t'challa wasnt BP when he was a kid so he couldnt have been talking about that.

In conclusion the REALLY need to put the date on everything not just events that happened in previous centuries because its about to make me head explode!

BOOM

and there it goes.

[SpideyInATree]

I picked this up out of curiousity of Hudlin, because he's going to be writing Marvel Knights Spider-Man, and John Romita Jr. was on it. JR JR is my all time favorite artist. :p

I know NOTHING about Black Panther, haha. I'm glad I picked up this book though because I enjoyed it a lot. One thing that people are going to have to remember with the Black Panther/Cap fight. There are still A LOT of racist people out there and they even read comic books. People probably aren't going to like the fact that Black Panther beat Captain America because well...Panther is black and Captain America is "the ultimate white man", haha. Trust me...people may give you other reasons like "Panther isn't even on Cap's level" but I did read somewhere, I forget where, that Panther is on the same power level as Captain America.

But that aside. I LOVED that Panther beat Cap in 1944 because, honestly, it'd only made sense. He didn't kill Cap...he only beat him and then safe took him away. But I'll definitely be buying issue # 2 and after seeing Hudlin can hold his own with a comic...so far...haha...I have good feelings about him jumping onto Marvel Knights. I'm really glad I bought this book. Plus...did you see Romita Jr.'s ART!!!! BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!

[roach]

yeah i realize that...look how many death threats Marvel recieved when they did the Truth story

[WildCard]

JR JR is WAY OVERRATED

[Elijya]

I've never been interested in BP before. This got me interested.

[Marcdachamp]

yeah i realize that...look how many death threats Marvel recieved when they did the Truth story
Really? I never heard about that...

Out of curiosity, has anyone here read Truth? Is it any good? Who wrote it?

[brainchild81]

Really? I never heard about that...

Out of curiosity, has anyone here read Truth? Is it any good? Who wrote it?

I read the 1st 2 or three issues and then got pissed off w/the bad art. The story was good up until that point though.

[Red Mask]

JR JR is WAY OVERRATED

I didn't see what was so great about him when he drew X-Men and Spider-Man. Daredevil was the only stint I enjoyed. But now that I'm older I can understand what makes him a good artist. And this guy is more reliable when it comes to makin deadlines. (A very important ability.)

[Elijya]

I hated JRJR when I was younger and he was on x-men

his ASM run with JMS really made me love him and miss him

[roach]

The art on the truth needed help but it was a real good story....it was basicly saying that the US tested the Super Soldier Serum on african american males before the gave it to Steve Rogers(which was historically correct around the time). Out of the six or so subjects only one survived and by the end of the story he had the intelligence of a child due to the untested SSS running thru him. Cap had investigated this and went to meet him.......
....I read an interview where the writer and artist recieved death threats because everyone jumped to conclusions thinking that Marvel was gonna replace Steve with "Black Cap".

[euroq]

JR Jr is an art god! He's easily my all time favorite comics artist.

I want him back on ASM, now. :(

[iloveclones]

I liked this first issue. I'm not exactly sure where they're going with it, but I like JRJR enough that I'll try it for a while. I liked the flashback scene with Cap (and give Cap a little credit, it was at the beginning of his career.) A few questions/comments:

The guy that they referred to as Ross: Is that the guys from the last series? If it is, they really should've established it somehow because he seems so different.

I thought it was a little over-the-top with the general. I would've preferred that it been some uppity mid-level staffer making these kind of comments.

I didn't pick up on it until I went back to check if they gave her a name, but I was wondering if anyone else thought the black woman was supposed to "be" Condoleeza Rice. I guess so, her name is "Dondi" !

[Marcdachamp]

I didn't pick up on it until I went back to check if they gave her a name, but I was wondering if anyone else thought the black woman was supposed to "be" Condoleeza Rice. I guess so, her name is "Dondi" !
She's supposed to be a "clone" of her. The general refers to her as "Ms.Reese". I thought it was pretty funny myself.

Thanks for the summary, Roach. I'd be pretty pissed if I thought Cap was being replaced too, but the story sounds like a very solid, believable one. People need to learn to relax a bit.

[roach]

yeah I agree...Cap is one of those characters that only Steve Rogers can be....Much like only Kent can be Supes and Wayne Batman.....

[WildCard]

i like JRs Spiderman and i apperciates his deadline acuracy but he like others (finch) sucks at faces. His style is way to Kirby for me

[Varient]

(in one short-lived but vividly remembered comic book) Ronald Reagan, he is a head of state who somehow finds time to maintain an active presence in the superhero community. The black get-up he covers his entire body with supposedly has to do with his status as king of Wakanda, a small but technologically advanced nation in Africa, but we know a superhero suit when we see one.

The Panther was created by writer Stan Lee and artist Jack Kirby, the legendary team behind practically every 1960s Marvel series from X-Men to Sgt. Fury & His Howling Commandos. They first used him as an antagonist for The Fantastic Four, in Fantastic Four #52 (July, 1966), but made it clear even then that he was intended to be more than a two-bit villain. In fact, he was the first black superhero to achieve even modest success. Within a couple of years, he was a member of The Avengers, which Marvel was using partly as a parking place for characters they might want to use more prominently later on. At first, his reason for hanging out with an American outfit was to spy on them, but later even that threadbare excuse for neglecting his royal duties was dropped.

He was equipped with the usual super powers — abnormal strength, agility, sense acuity, etc., plus an uncanny ability to track his quarry across any terrain. (They usually give that one to indigenous superheroes in regions that have been heavily colonized by Europeans.) These powers, like those of Elongated Man and Atomic Mouse, came from ingesting a substance which was never, ever referred to as a drug. Also, his ancient, traditional garb has been technologically fortified to the point where stopping bullets is the least of its virtues.

The Panther first got a series of his own in 1973, when Marvel made him the star of Jungle Action, a title that had formerly consisted entirely of reprints from the 1950s. There, his adventures were written by Don McGregor (Killraven, Detectives Inc.), who brought him back to Wakanda. Not surprisingly, he'd gone way down in the polls during his long absence, which in the superhero world usually leads sooner or later to a physical confrontation with a rival for power. This theme has been repeated a couple of times since. McGregor's series ended in 1976, but was followed almost immediately by a Black Panther title written and drawn by Kirby.

Kirby's series ran until 1979, after which The Black Panther kept his trademark current mostly through guest appearances, with the occasional mini-series thrown in. McGregor returned to write him a couple of times, and came to be considered by many as the definitive Black Panther writer — until 1998, at least, when a new ongoing series began, scripted by Christopher Priest (The Falcon, Power Man/Iron Fist).

That one is still running, and is in fact one of the more popular series Marvel has going right now. Which proves it pays to keep a minor character's trademark current, no matter how little star potential he seems to have.

[Varient]

Real Name: T'Challa
Occupation: King of Wakanda, scientist
Legal Status: Citizen of Wakanda with no criminal record
Identity: Publicly known
Other Aliases: Luke Charles, Black Leopard
Place of Birth: Wakanda, Northern Africa
Marital Status: Single
Known Relatives: T'Chaka (father, deceased), N'Yami (mother, deceased), Khanata, Joshua Itobo, Ishanta, Zuni (cousins), Jakarra (half brother)
Group Affiliation: The Avengers (reservist), fomerly Fantastic Force
Base of Operations: Wakanda, mobile
First Appearance: FANTASTIC FOUR Vol. 1 #52

History: T'Challa is the son of T'Chaka, late king of the African nation Wakanda. When lawless ivory hunter Ulysses Klaw murdered T'Chaka in an attempt to possess the country's rare Vibranium deposit, a grief-stricken T'Challa swore vengeance and succeeded in thwarting the butcher's raid. In the process, the young prince destroyed Klaw's hand.

Educated at the finest schools in Europe and America, T'Challa returned to his homeland bearing a degree in physics and ready to assume the mantle of leadership. To do so required he pass two tests: defeat six of Wakanda's greatest warriors in unarmed combat, and obtain the secret heart-shaped herb that grants the country's chieftains their powers. Successfully carrying out the dual challenge, T'Challa donned the ceremonial garb of the Black Panther, totem of the Wakandan people.

Under T'Challa, Wakanda has become one of the wealthiest and most technologically advanced nations on the planet. After meeting Captain America, the Panther was offered membership in the Avengers. Taking a leave of absence from his royal duties, he served among Earth's Mightiest Heroes for a lengthy interval, acquainting himself with American methods of crimefighting. During his time with the Avengers, he met the love of his life: social worker Monica Lynne. Inevitably, T'Challa returned to Wakanda, only to find the country in turmoil due to his prolonged absence. The Panther subdued an uprising led by Killmonger, a revolutionary intent on assuming the throne. After regaining his people's respect, the Panther worked to bring his country out of isolation from the rest of the world.

Height: 6 ft.
Weight: 185 lbs.
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black, shaved bald


Strength Level: The Black Panther is near the pinnicle of human physical perfection, his natural strength and abilities having been heightened by unidentified heart-shaped herb administered only to Wakandan kings during a sacred ascension ritual. THe herb os also only in Wakanda. While not superhuman, he is nearly as strong as a human being can become. He can lift (press) a maximum of 750 pounds with supreme effort.

Known Superhuman Powers: None

Abilities: An accomplished gymnast and acrobat, T'Challa is also an expert tracker. In addition, he has mastered various African martial arts.

Weapons: T'Challa's Vibranium micro-weave bodysuit not only stops bullets, but saps their momentum. His boots' Vibranium soles absorb sound and impact -- enabling him to leap from structures up to eight stories tall and land without injury, and literally run up the sides of buildings. The Panther's retractable claws contain a new composite of the experimental "anti-metal" Vibranium that can break down other alloys. T'Challa wields an energy dagger that can be fired, thrown or handled like a knife. At its highest setting, the weapon easily can cut through forged steel.

[roach]

thanx

[Varient]

thanx
nap,..
:cool:

[SpideyInATree]

JR JR is WAY OVERRATED

Hehe...he's overrated to you, maybe. I like his art and think he's the best. I still think his art in Black Panther is beautiful. His near decade work on Spider-Man through the years is some of the best, in my opinion. Overrated or not I like him. You don't have to. :p

[superhuman]

I got it, it's ok. I bought the one with the alternate cover which looks great. I don't know why it would get a newsday write up other than fact that it's Black History month so Marvel is trying to push the black superhero thing, which is fine, but in comparison to other titles that have been published in the past that are far better written and illustrated, it doesn't deserve the hype its getting.
I love Black Panther, don't get me wrong, I mean I have every issue ever printed, but this new comic is....just ok. We'll see where they go with it.

[rubio]

I liked the first issue. I try not to compare Hudlin to Priest just yet, let's give him some time.

[Chris Wallace]

Randy's criticism of Cap's fight is undeserving. He said

There's an unwritten law in literature that guest stars don't outshine or beat the story's title character. Black Panther is the main character so he should beat Cap in a fight. And let's not forget that this Cap was still green in those days. He hadn't gained enough experience to be the great hero he is today. In a turn about way, Cap saved Wakanda in his own comic years ago. He repaired his shield and then prevented Klaw from destroying the Vibranium mines. I also recall an Uncanny X-Men issue starring both Captain America and the Black Widow. "Madripoor Knights" I believe it was titled? Wolverine saved Captain America twice in that issue. First when Cap was slashed in the back by the Hand. Then later Logan rescued him and their friends from Von Strucker and the Hand.
While I agree w/you, I think the fight both made Panther look like a badass and made Cap look like a tool of the American government who got slapped down for sticking his nose where it wasn't wanted.

[Chris Wallace]

Hehe...he's overrated to you, maybe. I like his art and think he's the best. I still think his art in Black Panther is beautiful. His near decade work on Spider-Man through the years is some of the best, in my opinion. Overrated or not I like him. You don't have to. :p
I dig Romita-any Romita. I dig Spidey. I dig the Panther. And so far, I dig this book. I will be sticking around.

[Chris Wallace]

You don't suppose they purposely released it in February for us black readers, do you?

[TheCorpulent1]

It probably couldn't hurt sales that Marvel's got a major black hero's comic debuting during Black History Month.

[Chris Wallace]

So you won't rule it out?

[Varient]

As Per Priest,.. The Previous writers Concept of the Panther:

"What are the Black Panther's powers?"

The title "Black Panther" is a rank of office, chieftain of the Wakandan Panther Clan. As chieftain, the Panther is entitled to eat a special heart-shaped herb that grants him enhanced senses: hearing, smell, taste, agility, speed, balance and night vision. Like Wolverine, he can pick up a prey's scent and memorize tens of thousands of individual ones. For instance, if T'Challa ran into Peter Parker at a press conference, he would instantly know Parker was Spider-Man (I did a similar trick with Logan in SPIDER-MAN vs. WOLVERINE #1).

Beyond his enhanced senses, the Panther is an above-average athlete. He is probably faster than Captain America, and can certainly track prey better, but Cap is probably a bit stronger than T'Challa and may have greater endurance. The two are very similar in terms of their abilities and their zeal for justice. And, like Captain America, Panther will always find a way. Unflappable even in the face of great peril, Panther, like Cap, ignores the odds and keeps fighting for victory.

The Black Panther has a very simple set of toys. As an inventor, he could certainly pull the Fractal TechGear Deep Sea Panther Armor (TM) out of his hat, but we try to play by the rules we set out. Panther's basic arsenal is:

[1] an energy dagger. This is supposed to be a virtual dagger, with a typical, ornate hilt carved out of ivory or stone or something, and an energy-generated blade that can be set to stun or kill. Early in the run, the editors and artist decided the energy dagger blades could be either handled like an actual knife or fired like darts.

[2] a Kimoyo card. Kimoyo is Bantu for "Of the Spirit." It is kind of a Mother Box with tons of applications. It is basically a Palm Pilot amped to the Nth degree. It functions a lot like the Avengers' communicards, but with a lot more practical applications (in issue #14, for example, Panther called up a virtual schematic of a jumbo jet's cockpit controls and took command of the plane, landing it safely in a river).

[3] energy dampening soles in his boots. Energy regulators create varying fields from the Vibranium in the molded soles of the boots, enabling Panther to survive a fall of eight stories and land like a cat. Given enough momentum, Panther can also scale walls or walk on water, and the field can be also used offensively to shatter or weaken objects.

[4] the Panther's costume contains a Vibranium microweave mesh that works a lot like super-kevlar. The microweave robs incoming objects of their momentum (bullets do not ricochet off but simply fall to the ground when they come in contact with the weave). Likewise, the Panther cannot be stabbed, but the costume (and Panther) can be cut if the attacker slashes along the grain of the costume (see the Kraven fight in issue #7 and 8). The lenses in the mask cut glare and enhance his natural night vision. The claws in his gloves are made of Vibranium-based "Anti-Metal," and can break down most any metal known to man at the molecular level. In *theory*, Panther's claws could damage Captain America's shield, the hardest metal known to the Marvel Universe. But, that's, in *theory.* Combined with the Vibranium-soled boots, the claws enable Panther to scale any wall to any height, and even cling to the underbelly of a plane in flight (again, issue #14). The cloak can be elongated or shortened or eliminated with just a thought, and the entire costume can morph into King T'Challa's trademark black business suit (he usually steps into a shadow and emerges in the other outfit). "

:cool:

[Soup]

You don't suppose they purposely released it in February for us black readers, do you?

I'm just curious but is that a bad thing? or just a thing?

I'm filipino so... if they released a filipino book during
filipino history month... well..

guess I answered my own question.

[Thanos]

I liked it.

- Thanos

[XBRoughneck]

I love Black Panther, don't get me wrong, I mean I have every issue ever printed, but this new comic is....just ok.

I agree...which kinda sucks. I thought the Priest series started with such potential (loved the first 7 issues of that series graphically and script), then the revolving art direction turned me off.

Right now I give both the writing (Reginald Hudlin) and the art (not a fan of Romita's work) an average score of 5 out of 10.

Black Panther has the potential to be Marvel's "Batman" character if done correctly. Rich, single, well educated, physically fit.

Don't drop the ball again Marvel.

[Red Mask]

I thought Moon Knight was already Marvel's equivalent of Batman. Black Panther is way cooler than Bats.

[Varient]

I liked it.

- Thanos
Thank you,.. A comment w/o a critique.

The entire last two years I've been reading Marvel has changed my view of the company.

I find myself easily irritated by what I call lazy thinking on the part of both the company and the readers.


I'm changing my answer to "I liked it" mostly becuase I'm "tired" of "this.

Past experience has proven, (read Priests run) that it won't matter how good it is if Marvel doesn't promote it like they seem to do the lack-luster, the bland, and the "old Favorites"


Peace,.... I'm done.

[Manwithoutpeer]

I really liked the 1st issue. BP is such an awesome character...why hasn't BP been successful as a comic? Seems like it should be a slam dunk for Marvel but I"d bet this series ends up getting canceled in a year.

[Varient]

I really liked the 1st issue. BP is such an awesome character...why hasn't BP been successful as a comic? Seems like it should be a slam dunk for Marvel but I"d bet this series ends up getting canceled in a year.
In my view the problem is two-fold:
Promotion and interpretation.

This is the FIRST TIME I've seen BP promoted this much on a launching.

Prior to this you get the distinct impression:
"Fresh from the house of ideas,.. yet another teen-aged partially nude female with angst - Oh yeah,.. and the Black Panther starts another run."

Interpretation:
No explanation,.. Just putting it out there so the average comic geek is like:
"Black Pather? That's the black dude right? Nah,.. I don't see how that could be interesting,..."

You could be doing Spiderman and this way of doing things will reduce sales.


Too bad too,.. Some of the BEST stuff Written by Marvel Blows Right past the Majority of the fanbase for just that reason.

[Manwithoutpeer]

So, who are the Super-villians that are gonna attack Wakanda?

[roach]

In my view the problem is two-fold:
Promotion and interpretation.

This is the FIRST TIME I've seen BP promoted this much on a launching.

Prior to this you get the distinct impression:
"Fresh from the house of ideas,.. yet another teen-aged partially nude female with angst - Oh yeah,.. and the Black Panther starts another run."

Interpretation:
No explanation,.. Just putting it out there so the average comic geek is like:
"Black Pather? That's the black dude right? Nah,.. I don't see how that could be interesting,..."

You could be doing Spiderman and this way of doing things will reduce sales.


Too bad too,.. Some of the BEST stuff Written by Marvel Blows Right past the Majority of the fanbase for just that reason.

exactly...If you looked at the Wizard magazines at the time it was out(and I did) look at what was promoted Ultimate this and Ultimate that...No promotion for BP, Thor's awesome run where Odin died and Thor took over...no mention.

[SHAFT Agent]

SHAFT NewsWire: "White House Denies Use of Racial Slur"

http://www.shaftagents.com/newswire12.htm

[Elijya]

BWAHAHHAHAH!!!

taht's going in the mondo funky

[Varient]

SHAFT NewsWire: "White House Denies Use of Racial Slur"

http://www.shaftagents.com/newswire12.htm
that was funny,.. and well done.

[roach]

nice

[SHAFT Agent]

Many thanks.

[fifthfiend]

Are you seriously the guy who runs that site?

Because I have to say, you are God-damn hilarious.

Oh, and -- Captain America nuking Neverland from orbit?

The only thing not awesome about that is that Mark Millar didn't come up with it first.

[Elijya]

I'm in the middle of the The Shield/S.H.I.E.L.D. comic, good stuff

[SHAFT Agent]

Are you seriously the guy who runs that site?

Because I have to say, you are God-damn hilarious.

Oh, and -- Captain America nuking Neverland from orbit?

The only thing not awesome about that is that Mark Millar didn't come up with it first.

Yep, that's me. Glad you like the site, and thanks for the kind words.

[Red Mask]

Yeah, one man should never make his own theme park for kids. Kids keep getting hurt at Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. And let's not forget Jurassic Park.

Come to think of it, Cap and Fury should be nuking Wayne Manor. More kids associated to Batman have been harmed.

[XBRoughneck]

Well, after reading the last 4 issues of Daredevil (67-70) I've come to the conclusion that Black Panther #1 could have been MUCH better. There isn't (IMHO) a compelling reason to pick up issue #2 other than 1) you're a BP fan and 2) you think there will be value in the second issue.

The art in BP is ok, but IMHO Reginald Hudlin gets a low C- grade for the writing in the first issue. It just isn't up to snuff.

I hope he gets his act together for future issues or this will be a very short lived BP series (just like the Priest series).

Another personal opinion. I'm still waiting for a writer to show the SAVAGE side of the BP character. Sure, he's been educated in the best schools. Still doesn't mean he shouldn't show that Panther ferocity every now and then. Give the guy more of an edge.

Not to the level of a wolverine, but definately have him "really" lose his temper when provoked. He's always so in control.

[Red Mask]

We saw him beat the Red Skull. He even took the gloves off. To see him get angry, you have to read between the lines.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'd say the Red Skull fight in "Red Zone" showed his ferocious side nicely. He tore the Skull's jaw off, after all.

[roach]

I went to Priest's site and it was very informative about all the behind the scenes stuff

[Varient]

Well, after reading the last 4 issues of Daredevil (67-70) I've come to the conclusion that Black Panther #1 could have been MUCH better. There isn't (IMHO) a compelling reason to pick up issue #2 other than 1) you're a BP fan and 2) you think there will be value in the second issue.

The art in BP is ok, but IMHO Reginald Hudlin gets a low C- grade for the writing in the first issue. It just isn't up to snuff.

I hope he gets his act together for future issues or this will be a very short lived BP series (just like the Priest series).

Another personal opinion. I'm still waiting for a writer to show the SAVAGE side of the BP character. Sure, he's been educated in the best schools. Still doesn't mean he shouldn't show that Panther ferocity every now and then. Give the guy more of an edge.

Not to the level of a wolverine, but definately have him "really" lose his temper when provoked. He's always so in control.
Too much of a stereotype.
The Black Panther is supposed to be a king,.. someone who thinks outside the box for the greater good. The Panther Totem is like an office held in addition to being king,... a religious leader.

A man who has thought strategic rigs around Tony Stark is not going to easily bubble over and explode.

[XBRoughneck]

We saw him beat the Red Skull. He even took the gloves off. To see him get angry, you have to read between the lines.

What issue was that? I'd love to read it.


Good to see he can get ticked every now and then.

[The Hobgoblin]

The thing about THIS Black Panther run is that you have to realise its being done as a sort of "Year One".

Its not going to be 100% the same as the old origin. Its being updated for a new audience.

I was a huge fan of Priest's run and Hudlin's first issue confused me a little as to where it "fits in". It really doesn't matter though.

I think Hudlin is going to take BP in a very good new direction.

[DBM]

EDIT: Nevermind

[newnoiseimage]

so, i finally read the first issue, and here is my take.

i liked it, but a couple things bothered me.

1) the first fight the tribal one. too much modern slang. really poor writing in that sense, very poor. everything else was fine.

2) i understand this is a basic relaunch, which i have mixed feelings about. one, it seems that, and i assume that the history will be basically followed, i dont think there are any major changes, just a retelling to make the new audience feel closer to the character. but they also plan on introducing this panther into the mainstream marvel u. so how do you ignore his ties to the avengers etc.?? i guess that is to be seen.

overall i liked it.

[RockSP]

so, i finally read the first issue, and here is my take.

i liked it, but a couple things bothered me.

1) the first fight the tribal one. too much modern slang. really poor writing in that sense, very poor. everything else was fine.


Plenty of people have complained about this and I just don't get it. They aren't speaking english. It's a translation.

[newnoiseimage]

Plenty of people have complained about this and I just don't get it. They aren't speaking english. It's a translation.

so other languages had todays slang words in the 17th or 18th century.

that totally clears things up.

[RockSP]

so other languages had todays slang words in the 17th or 18th century.

that totally clears things up.

Translation. Whatever slang they had has been replaced with the slang Hudlin chose to use...not that hard to understand at all...

[newnoiseimage]

its not hard to understand, just hard to make sense of. it doesnt fit. lets have thor return using complete street slang, and justify it by calling it a translation.

[RockSP]

:confused: Don't see the connection. And when you take into account that Thor's speech pattern was never accurate to begin with...

[Unthinkable]

its not hard to understand, just hard to make sense of. it doesnt fit. lets have thor return using complete street slang, and justify it by calling it a translation.

Also, I thought Klaw was narrating, though I could be wrong..

[newnoiseimage]

it wasnt a narration, it was a speech bubble.

i dont know about you, but i feel if a fan has to create an explanation for something in a comic/movie/book then it obviously an error.

[SHAFT Agent]

Posted by Reginald Hudson on Comicon:

I promised I wasn't going to be the guy who jumps on line to answer every negative comment about the book and I'm not.

But this complaint about modern language needs to be addressed. It's called transliteration, it's properly translating someone's words so they sound like what the person really said. If you've watched a foriegn film and heard the people in the theatre who speak the language laugh while you are stuck with subtitles that don't convey the humor, you know the difference between when a film translation captures the spirit of colloqualisms, and when they don't.

When my first film debuted in Italy, I worked with an American who spoke Italian and an Italian who spoke English to translate black American slang into phrases that would play locally. It was worth the effort.

I know there are readers that are so used to any native characters (African, American Indians, etc.) speak in stilted language ("Him Panther - Big Chief these parts!"), that you can't imagine that those people don't actually speak that way.

Furthermore, certain terms and concepts, like cool and funk (to name two) are African-derived words. Read FLASH OF THE SPIRIT by professor Robert Farris Thompson (of Yale University) for more information.

[fifthfiend]

Posted by Reginald Hudson on Comicon:

Thank you.

[RockSP]

Like I said, I just didn't get the complaints in the first place. It's the 5th century. The reader should know they aren't speaking english. It's almost like some readers couldn't accept that fact unless the usual brackets were put around the dialogue...

[DBM]

I know there are readers that are so used to any native characters (African, American Indians, etc.) speak in stilted language ("Him Panther - Big Chief these parts!"), that you can't imagine that those people don't actually speak that way.

This just proves to me that he doesn't get it.

Transliteration is fine for contemporary works. I use different slang when I speak Spanish than when I do English because the meanings don't carry across. But this is modern slang in modern times.

By putting modern slang into the mouths of historic people you draw the reader out of the moment. The key to any good story is to draw the read into the story by using dialogue and setting. You want the reader to feel that the story is real and they are observing it. By having ancient Africans use modern slang, he basically yelled "HEY THIS IS NOT REAL," and violently yanked readers away from the fantasy of the story.

There's no need to go the other extreme either and make the language stilted. All he needed to do was use real sentences and real definitions. If he wanted to get the meaning of "We'll kick your butts" across, he could have said, "We will defeat you."

Someone is likely to counter that saying it my way wouldn't sound as "natural." That's the exact point. These are people who lived hundreds of years ago or live in totally different countries, who had totally different sentence structure and colloquialisms. By having their speech sound “unnatural” to us, but not in modern slang, it reinforces the alien nature of these people. They are different from us therefore they should sound different than us.

And that draws the reader further into the fantasy of the story.


My personally belief, and it could be entirely untrue, is that Hudlin doesn’t get the idea of fantasy/adventure writing. Everything else, that I know of, that he’s wrote dealt with more modern, real world settings. The rules for that type of story don’t apply the same to comics.

[newnoiseimage]

i like keeping periods accurate.

shakespeare doesnt work as well with elizabethan dress, but modern language.

if you like it great! but to others, whom i believe are in the right, it is erroneous and out of place.

[RockSP]

i like keeping periods accurate.

shakespeare doesnt work as well with elizabethan dress, but modern language.

if you like it great! but to others, whom i believe are in the right, it is erroneous and out of place.

It's not about right or wrong, imo. Just wasn't bothered by it. I knew they weren't speaking english.

[Manwithoutpeer]

Translation. Whatever slang they had has been replaced with the slang Hudlin chose to use...not that hard to understand at all...

Exactly...no explanation needed IMO.

[newnoiseimage]

Exactly...no explanation needed IMO.

good for you, take a stand.

[Red Mask]

i like keeping periods accurate.

shakespeare doesnt work as well with elizabethan dress, but modern language.

if you like it great! but to others, whom i believe are in the right, it is erroneous and out of place.

That's the reason why I didn't bother watching the modern take of "Romeo and Juliet", starring Leonardo DiCaprio. Looked ridiculous.

[fifthfiend]

That's the reason why I didn't bother watching the modern take of "Romeo and Juliet", starring Leonardo DiCaprio. Looked ridiculous.

Ironically, the DiCaprio/Lurhman version featured modern dress, yet was entirely faithful to the original Shakespearian diction.

[Manwithoutpeer]

good for you, take a stand.

thanks dude, you are a cool guy.

[DBM]

thanks dude, you are a cool guy.

Just so ya know. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. That's what he does.

[newnoiseimage]

Just so ya know. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. That's what he does.


how dare you judge me!

[Varient]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=922&stc=1 :rolleyes:

[DBM]

how dare you judge me!

I'm right though, aren't I?

[newnoiseimage]

I'm right though, aren't I?


that is 100% besides the point.

[DBM]

that is 100% besides the point.

I'm pretty sure that it's 100% exactly my point.

[Manwithoutpeer]

That makes me a saaaaad panda....

[Chris Wallace]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=922&stc=1 :rolleyes:
THAT COSTUME ROCKS!

[GNR]

I like the current old school duds.Wow,didnt know the first arc made it onto Newsweek.Some friends of mine who read the TPB of WISP? thought it was really good.

[Chris Wallace]

I Didn't Even Know You Were Into BP Like That.

[Assassin]

i stoped reading after issue 6 or 7 did it get any better? that claw story was bothering me

[GNR]

2 the Hard Way starting with #10 was an awesome team-up arc.Bride of the Panther was been surprisingly good.Lots of drama,humor and romance.

[Chris Wallace]

And Only Getting Better.

[Varient]

boy,... the winds of change,..........................:whatever: