Anubis' "How would you do it?" Thread.

[Anubis]

Well, its late, I’m all hoped up on peach schnapps and honey buns, and I guess I feel like starting a thread I have been thinking about doing for a long time. So, here’s the deal, pick a storyline, any storyline, and come up with a way to improve it. What sucked about it? What do you change about it? How can you make a better story arc?

I’ll go first:


Avengers Disassembled. So many problems with this story, but the overall premise is pretty good. What can I change?

Hawkeye’s death.
The retcon of Chaos magic.
The bringing back and then killing of Jack of Hearts.
And the lame ass reason for them disassembling.



First off, Hawkeye. Simple, don’t kill him. Sure somebody has to die in this story, but why Hawkeye? Not that I like the character so much, but I think there are others who could die or disappear that would give more impact to the story. I would replace Hawkeye with Hank Pym. His “death” wouldn’t be an official death. Simply put, Wanda would reverse the Pym Particles, shrinking him from giant form to seemingly out of existence. Of course he wouldn’t be dead, just trapped in a subatomic universe. [Instant mini series] While at the same time, she would make Ant Man grow past the size where the human frame couldn’t handle the weight. Lets say, 600 ft? His bones shatter and he falls, horribly crippled, taking out most of Manhattan in the process. Another thing I would’ve done would be to have Wanda effect Tony’s Armor, causing it to explode, taking Tony’s Legs with it. This would cause a lot of future problems as well as give us a better reason for Tony pulling the funding for the Avengers. He lost his legs, he’s depressed, he also has a public relations nightmare on his hands with what is going on. But eventually he gets it together and builds himself some new legs. Which presents another problem, feeling that he is becoming more machine than man. With mechanical legs and a robot heart, he would be something of a tin man.

And the actual deaths, I would have killed both Vision and Wanda. After a massive fight, involving all the Avengers, Dr. Strange, Agatha Harkness, and even Master order and Lord Chaos getting there @$$es handed to them by a super powered up Wanda, they manage to cut her off from her power source. She has a brief moment were she sees what she has done. Vison picks her up and flies her off, heading for space. He kisses her one last time and the say I love you as he activates his self destruct mechanism. Killing them both.


o.k. now, Chaos Magic, still exists, as a matter of fact, it should be the reason for all of this. This should have easily tied in to the JLA/Avengers crossover, when she went over to the DC earth, and gained a massive power up where Chaos magic is far greater. Coming back, she was now corrupted. She is draining all the power of Lord Chaos and any other being who is subject to the form of magic. This of course effects her mind, causes her to go on an Extant sized rampage and take out, Avengers Mansion, the U.N., and with the help of Scott Lang and some Pym Particles, most of Manhattan. Much better than eliminating something thats been around for years, and there is continuity that supports it.

So, with all this destruction caused by an Avenger, Stark and Scott Lang Crippled, Pym missing and feared dead, and thousands now dead or missing, and all of this caught on national t.v., The Avengers are forced to disassembled.

Well, that’s how I would do it, feel free to express you thoughts,. And Come up with your own ideas for not just improving Disassembled, but any other storyline that just coulda been a hell of a lot better.

[Roughneck]

The whole New-X-Men thing.

Basically I would have not done any Secondary Mutations. It would have been the Real Magneto all along. No Kick. I wouldn't have made the Imperial Guard suck. Emma Frost Wouldn't have been on the team. Frank Quietly wouldn't have done the art. I wouldn't have called it New and Wolvereine would have stayed under the Glacier.

[roach]

Dissassembled.....it would have been more than four issues.Attacks would be coming left and right.Avengers attacking Avengers. No one would trust anyone until the real mastermind behind the Avengers troubles is revealed....The Space Phantom. Hawkeye dies but he goes out more heroicly than what Bendis did. He takes a bullet for Cap saving Cap's life......No one quits because Cap realizes the world needs Avengers...so he builds Avengers into a massive organization which causes some political leaders to worry

[gildea]

the funny thing is some of that stuff sounds really interesting anubis (particularly the sub atomic pym thing) but you would likely have been as 'hated' as bendis for most of it.

[Silver Sable]

Changing Carnage's death storyline.Bendis had some nerve

[Anubis]

The whole New-X-Men thing.

Basically I would have not done any Secondary Mutations. It would have been the Real Magneto all along. No Kick. I wouldn't have made the Imperial Guard suck. Emma Frost Wouldn't have been on the team. Frank Quietly wouldn't have done the art. I wouldn't have called it New and Wolvereine would have stayed under the Glacier.


em, not bad, how about a little more detail?

[Anubis]

Dissassembled.....it would have been more than four issues.Attacks would be coming left and right.Avengers attacking Avengers. No one would trust anyone until the real mastermind behind the Avengers troubles is revealed....The Space Phantom. Hawkeye dies but he goes out more heroicly than what Bendis did. He takes a bullet for Cap saving Cap's life......No one quits because Cap realizes the world needs Avengers...so he builds Avengers into a massive organization which causes some political leaders to worry


The whole Space Phantom thing could work, but does that mean that this is all a plot by Immortus? Seeing as the Space Phantom isn't really a single being but one of many denizens of Limbo who have been there so long they have become Space Phantoms.

I like the Hawkeye idea. If you were gonna kill him, he should have at least went out in a heroic way. Taking one for Cap is a good way. I thought blowing himself up coulda worked to if done better. Surrounded, and cut off by enemies, Bow broken, mortally wounded, and nothing left but an explosive arrow, then I could see him taking the suicide bomber route. But what was actually done was just plain silly.

[Anubis]

the funny thing is some of that stuff sounds really interesting anubis (particularly the sub atomic pym thing) but you would likely have been as 'hated' as bendis for most of it.


I don't know. Not a lot of people are all that pissed about the death of Vision. And Pym wouldn't really be dead or anything. In fact he would get more exsposure as a result. But your probally right. Some people live to hate.

[Anubis]

Changing Carnage's death storyline.Bendis had some nerve


Whose to say he's really dead?

[Roughneck]

He's just gonna be a lot shorter now.

[roach]

The whole Space Phantom thing could work, but does that mean that this is all a plot by Immortus? Seeing as the Space Phantom isn't really a single being but one of many denizens of Limbo who have been there so long they have become Space Phantoms.

I like the Hawkeye idea. If you were gonna kill him, he should have at least went out in a heroic way. Taking one for Cap is a good way. I thought blowing himself up coulda worked to if done better. Surrounded, and cut off by enemies, Bow broken, mortally wounded, and nothing left but an explosive arrow, then I could see him taking the suicide bomber route. But what was actually done was just plain silly.

well I really would have loved to have Loki destroy the team but im sure he was busy in the Thor monthly so I wanted to use a villian who we havent seen in a while but caused a significant moment to the Avengers(caused the Hulk to Leave). I agree with Hawkeye's death also...if you are going to have someone sacrifice themselves have them go out in a blaze of glory

[WOLVERINE25TH]

X-Men-No secondary mutations, no leather suits.

Wolverine-No savage beast, tie up a lotta loose ends.

Spider-Man-Keep Ben Reilly alive an' have him team up with Parker. Aunt May stays dead. Norman Osborn gets bumped off fer once an' fer all. NO CHAPTER ONE! I'd beat John Byrne off with a stick.

Captain America-No Volume 4. Volume 3 was goin' just fine.

X-23-Get a stronger writer with a clue on her.

Ultimate X-Men-Just...no.

[newnoiseimage]

Well, its late, I’m all hoped up on peach schnapps and honey buns,

peach schnapps???
i hope you are female.

[Anubis]

I'm comfortable enough about my sexuality to enjoy a pint of Peach Schnapps and some ultra sweet Honey Buns at 1:00 in the a.m..

[roach]

lol
anyhow i could have thought of many different things for Hawkeye to do OTHER than to ram a sapceship

[Dwarf lord]

I really like Roach's ideas though, I still wouldn't kill Hawkeye or Vision or Pym.

[roach]

it's because i am an aspiring writer...lol
I would kill them but i'd do it in such a way that it was for the greater good
Heroic deaths...Spock in ST2, Optimus Prime in Transformers the movie, Vader in Return of the Jedi....
Hawkeye went out like the female in the Matrix..even said the same thing

[Dwarf lord]

True. And what did Hawkeye say?

[Anubis]

Not like this. :(

[fifthfiend]

**** yeah, Peach Schnapps.

[roach]

to me the best way to honor fans of a character is to have that character go out heroicly

[Anubis]

O.K., I got another one. X-Men the end. Now, I only got through about 3 issues of this crap fest before I had to say to hell with it, but I can’t help but think how much better it could have been.

First of all, I woulda went with the War between humans and mutants finally coming about. We would have a united front of Mutants, lead by a new face. Some one young and powerful. They would be the ones who finally set the war off. By assassinating both Charles Xavier and all of congress during a address on mutant tolerance. Humanity is lead by the US. Specifically a new president who seems to be pushing this war along for his own agenda. And caught in the middle would be the X-Men. Mutants are divided on which side to stand on. Lots of people die. Lots of X-Men too. X-Men take out the Mutant leader, but by that time the humans have already created their ultimate weapon. Everything comes to a head when the President tries to unleash some sort of secret weapon to end the mutants once and for all. A new uber powerful Sentinel, that’s like huge, at least 300ft, with nuke capabilities and other earth shattering weapons . But, of course you guessed it by now, it tries to take out everybody. Starting with Vegas, and it works it's way on up to New York, destroying everything in it's path. No one else can stop it so the remaining X-Men are the ones who have to deal with it. WOLVERINE DIES in this battle, as does a number of other X-Men. And it ultimately comes down to Kitty who has to go all the way into it’s reactor core to destroy it. This of course ends the war, and brings about more acceptance and tolerance towards mutants, seeing as they are the ones who saved everybody’s @$$. The X-Men ends with Charles Xavier’s dream finally being realized, but at great cost.

Now, that’s my idea, more or less. I’m sure there’s a lot more that could go into it, but that’s it in a nut shell. I just feel that, if your gonna end the X-Men, then it should involve the stuff that defines the X-Men, Racism, humanity vs. Mutants, and Xavier’s Dream. Nothing about space, and Cable, and the future and even the Phoenix isn’t that important.

[MichaelRGrimm]

Well done, Anubis! On both Dissassembled and X-Men:the End.

[roach]

i posted in a whole nother thread how I'd do The End and it pretty much killed everyone off and Had Magneto pick up the torch.

[Anubis]

Well done, Anubis! On both Dissassembled and X-Men:the End.


Well, thank you. I try to do my best.

[newnoiseimage]

not bad.

now stop drinking any schnapps thats under 80 proof (peppermint and blackhouse).

[Anubis]

say what you want man, but peach schnapps rulz.

http://www.omnipacific.net/liqbeerwines/liq/potterspeachsch.jpg


oh and I in no way am endorsing underage drinking. Listen up fellas. Friends don't let friends drive drunk. Even if they are only drinking Peach Schnapps.

[newnoiseimage]

peach schnapps is excellent for 13 year old girls who want to defy their parents.

80 proof. Rum, Vodka, Whiskey.

Try the Captain out.

You and the Captain, Make it happen ;)

[Anubis]

Cap'n Morgan, that takes me back. Reminds me of the time I sold my pubes for booze money.

[Anubis]

i posted in a whole nother thread how I'd do The End and it pretty much killed everyone off and Had Magneto pick up the torch.


What thread was it?

[TheCorpulent1]

Hmm... I was gonna compliment Anubis on the sweet idea for a Pym mini-series spinning out of Disassembled but this thread has apparently degraded into drunken shenanigans...

[roach]

What thread was it?
on the Xmen boards about The End

[roach]

Here it is.....The X-Men are attacked all over the world by foes recent and old in random order. Xavier is killed and the mental backlash has Rachel, Emma and Betsy in a coma with every other telepath in the world. The X-men old and new return to HQ to figure out what's going on when they are attacked by several hundred Sentinals. The team fight for their lives until Wolverine is killed...his skin is blasted off his bones. Everyone else dies save for Cyclops, Beast, Polaris and Nightcrawler.....The sentinals are dealt with.....all of a sudden the Shiar beam in and tell the X-Men that their real foe is the Dark Phoenix.....The Xmen race to Jean's grave and find it untouched. Jean is still in her grave.....
"I thought you said Dark Phoenix????" Cyke says.
"There is more than one phoenix on this planet." The shiar says.
The Xmen race back to the mansion to see Rachel in her Dark Phoenix garb slay Emma and Betsy...
Kurt appeals to her heart and Rachel pauses for the briefest of moments
...the shiar battle ship blasts the mansion to atoms killing all inside including Rachel.

Months pass and mutant and human relations do not improve. Sensing this and the need for someone to buffer humans and mutants Magneto decides to reform a new team of X-men...they are......
Magneto
Scarlet Witch
Quick Silver
Blob
Cecilya Reyes
Sunspot
Silver Samurai

[Anubis]

Not bad, Mags taking up Xaviers cause. The Shiar shows up. Rachel goes all Dark Pheonix on us. And Wolvie getting whacked. I'd buy that.

[roach]

thanx

[roach]

how about this.....a being of immense power comes to earth and tells the world governments it has the answer to the mutant problem. A rogue planet is moving toward the earth and this is where the mutants can go.The planet is a paradise and offers a lot of freedom to mutanats.The government allows it and mutants begin shipping over to the planet.Of course Xavier thinks this is a bad idea because humanity and mutantkind needs each other. However no one listens to him..in fact a few X-men seek to go to the planet. Xavier finally goes to the planet and sees the paradise for himself.Xavier lets his guard down and gets taken out. Magneto, being the suspicious person he is, doesnt like the idea of shipping mutants anywhere(it reminds him of WW2) especially since he isnt a part of it.Once the Xmen touch down on the planet looking for Xavier they discover the truth.It is no planet.It is Krakoa..the villian from Giant-size X-men No.1. The combined might of the Xmen and Magneto destroy Krakoa once and for all.

[Anubis]

I like this one. Reminds me of a sci-fi thing I saw on HBO a while ago were aliens came to earth and asked to trade a effeicent reuseable fuel, and cures for various diseases in exchange for all the Black people on earth. It was weird and funny and Goerge Clinton was in it. Nice one roach. :up:

[Anubis]

Gonna check back in and do one for Ultiamte War. That shoulda been a whole lot better.

[Zoken]

Okay, Beak should have been a whole lot more, he is so X-Men material for the twenty first century. I see him getting the special class into a realy team. his trade-mark of course being the base-ball bat.

[Karem-Knight]

AD: First I'll Make the villain Loki second I'll have all the AVENGERS fight him not just Doc Strange and also I won't kill Hawkeye

[ThorneFox]

If I could redo Jack Russel's, in "Werewolf By Night", origin I'd make it totally different. Instead of being descended from a man who was cursed so many centuries ago I'd make it so that his family is a family of natural born werewolves.

They were always pretty well-to-do even in the old country (I'd figure out some place I want them to originate, maybe the British Isles). They'd previously spent a great amount of time in wolf form, until the Burning Times when werewolf hysteria was at an all time high. With that they went into hiding, trying to pose as average human beings in order to avoid execution or the pain of being caught and forced to betray their own kind. They maintained this for years, teaching every generation about their culture and history to remind them of why it's important to always remain hidden. They were taught to never go too far without their skins (I'll explain this later). Eventually most of the elders died out, leaving the last few generations without a true appreciation for their history. Jack Russel's great-grandfather, often tried to educate his children and grandchildren of their heritage, but none of them took him seriously anymore. That was until Jack came along and soaked in everything his great-grandfather taught him. One during a trip to America Jack's brief case was stolen, which held the wolf skin essential for transformation. This caused Jack to mentally break down in the middle of the streets of (insert city, not New York) and eventually be taken away. The story would start with people trying to "rehabilitate" him as no one believes in werewolves, especially not in the way he tells it.

Instead of changing like the traditional werewolves in the media, I'd have them change like the Selkies of the Celtic Mythology. So what that means is that they'd shed their wolf skin in order to go into human form. They can do so whenever they choose. With that comes an uncanny attachment between the wolf skin and it's owner. That would also be explored.

They had something like that in one particular issue of Sandman from "Fables and Reflections". But it wasn't a big deal. Or maybe it was "A Game of You". Either way, that is loosely based on Neil Gaiman's werewolf story in Sandman.

[Anubis]

:up:, Now I see why you made that Warewolf by night thread asking weather anybody would be pissed if they revamped him. That is a very cool idea. Of course, I don't know much of anything about the character, but if this came out tomorrow, I would by it in a heartbeat. It's different and it's something I haven't seen done with Warewolves before. Great job.

[Zoken]

Personally I'd redo Marvel 2. there is so much potential there. of course I wouldn't really make Spider-Girl a solo act. there would be Spider-Girl's big rival Tom-Cat. the twist would be that out of costume May is dating a handsome young man named Peter Thomas Hardy. this young man would be the illigetimate son of none other than Felicia Hardy, who somehow passed along her Black Cat powers to him. now that she has found him, for she had given him up for adoption at a young age, she wishes him to carry on in the way her greatest love (Spider-Man) had taught her.

also othere areas would include a new female Captain America and all the hubub it caused not just in the media but for the soldier herself at home (in my vision she has a nephew who thinks the being in the army already makes her a sell-out, but now taking the mantle of someone he thinks is a complete tool also hurts. she is closer to the nephew than anyone else in her family)

also a gold symbiote off-spring of Carnage and Venom (together) but somehow controlled by a young man who recently rejected the preist hood and is a former gang member, he calls himself "Redemption"

four twenty-something apprentices to Dr. Strange.

[Anubis]

You have some good ideas man. I expecially like the idea to change the MC2 female Cap. She shoulda been a career soldier. Tough as nails with tons of combat expierence. (assuming they go ahead and let women fight for real some day.) She doesn't have much in terms of family, except her sister and her nephew. She should be a SHEILD special homeland defense opperative who is captured by a Rogue Cell of AIM. They perform experiments on her, changeing her physical structure, trying to create there own super soldiers. But she escapes and manages to take out the entire Cell, with the exception of one. The young Super Genious leader of the Cell. This dude becomes her arch nemisis.

With the real Cap, gone ( I havent' figured out why the real Cap wouldn't be in the picture or anything.) The U.S. Government go ahead and makes her the new Captain America.

What else, She should have different suit. Closer to Ultiamte Cap's original suit. And she should use Cap's original shield. She basically works for SHIELD and has to deal with all the different terrorist plots of the future. I'm not talking about the guys we gotta deal with now, but futuristic offshots of the Brotherhood, or Hydra, and of course her Nemisis mad scientist from AIM. Yeah, I could see that working. Might even work as a new US Agent with a few changes here and there.

[Zoken]

Well my thoughts were that even Captain America (Steve Rodgers) has to eventually grow old. and since they have a way of creating other super-soldiers (isn't that what they did with U.S.Agent) they choose to comission a new Captain America, with Steve's voice in it of course. they go around looking at Marine, Soldiers, Sailors, and Air Force, but in all of it they keep getting the same name back. a captain in the U.S. Army by the name of Judkins. highly decorated and highly trained in almost every way. then they find out its Captain Melissa Judkins, a woman. a good bit of your story would work too though.

also I picture her having a large family, most of whom are very proud of her nomination, but the nephew, whom she has always been close to, starts to snub her and tells her how he feels.

[Anubis]

I like that too. Cap would be something of a mentor for her. Providing her with On the Job Training. Assuming Cap does in fact get old. There are some that say he doesn't age anymore. Your way works too. Good man. :up:

[Zoken]

I'm also working on the UM2 of the FF.

I'm seein' Ben as the Leader with Psi-Lord (Franklin), Lady Torch (Jonny's illigitmate daughter), Burka and Bikini (Twin girls who somehow stole the powers of Cloak and Dagger), and I'm still tryin' to think of a sixt. I want them to be the Sensational Six.

[Anubis]

I had a few ideas for a MC2 FF. But I had Valaria/Mrs. Fantastic, leading the team. She doesn't have any powers but she's just as Smart as her father. I'd also have Franklin, Lyta, the daughter of Quicksilver and Crystal of the In-humans, and Val's husband, Sammy the Fish boy who I would rename Argonaut....yeah I know, Laugh if you want but I had a great idea for him and the rest of the MC2 universe as far as Mutants are concerned.

[Zoken]

I can't figure the X-Men in MC2 out. I mean they mature and stop maturing at random intervals. I would either have to come up with completely new ones, or figure osmething out... I don' know. I catually like the idea of Sammy. I had plans for him growing up too, including the discovery of retractable poison spines in his fingers. and a name change to Mako.

What about my Spider-Girl idea? I was excited because I also wrote in the old Venom symbiote in what I thought was a clever way, by having him bond to May's best friend (guy) who is in love with her and jealous of Peter Hardy. so his anger and hatred feed the symbiote and make it change somewhat changing the name from Venom to Toxin... then I found out there already is a Toxin symbiote.

[Anubis]

It's was a good idea. I wouldn't mind seeing Mayday hook up with Felicia's kid. And the idea of a good Symbiote, not like Venom's foray into being a hero, but a person who actually bonds with the Symbiote and does somthing good with it. I like it.

[Zoken]

Yeah, he has all the powers of the symbiotes before him, but with his experiences and his faith (while he isn't going for priest any longer, he is still a devout catholic) he is actually able to sperate the Symbiote's consiousness from his own. the symbiote is constantly telling him things, how to kill, how violent. just to piss the symbiote off, Redemption names him Bob.

I also envision May being more her father's daughter. a geek to the Nth power. I imagine Peter transfer's to her school one day it is just like BAM instant love.
but they don't know eachother in uniform. despite how MJ-Peter parker they are, they don't tell each other about their "other lives". a result being that Tom-Cat and Spider-Girl hate each other. Spider-Girl has her father's sense of humor, and Tom-Cat thinks she doesn't take things seriously enough. Spider-Girl thinks Tom-Cat is too straight lace and uptight and a little extreme (though he doesn't kill, he does maim)

[Anubis]

lol :D

Bob, thats funny.

Yeah man, the more I hear the more I dig it. I think they could even make this Redemption character work in the 616 universe.

The Tom-Cat/Spider-Girl relationship sounds a bit like her relationship with The Buzz in the current Spider-Girl series, only, she's not in love with him in civilian life, but she did like him for awhile. That would be cool if they're dating and all lovie dovey, and then when they put on the costumes, they can't stand each other.

[Spider-Hulk 612]

The Clone Saga. I would have ended it like the original idea for the saga was. Have both Ben and Peter fighting the Jackel right before the lab goes up in flames. Only one of them survives but they have amnesia and cant remember if they are the real Peter or clone.

I would keep Kaine around though. Just like I said in my other post.

[Zoken]

thats the idea. when they find out (I'm thinking Goblin intervention) about eachother, they break-up, and try dating other people, but thats when the Toxin things starts up.

Redemption, his alternate persona, eventually gets a job as an advice columnist at an LA news paper. he has some trouble with relationships and stuff, plus his self identity. (He is a reformed violent criminal.)

[roach]

In the aftermath of Nu Avengers I'd launch a bunch of books based on characters who werent used...
Antman & Wasp
Submariner
Quicksilver
Wonderman

[Dread]

I suppose I'll throw my ideas into the mix.

"How would Dread do..."

Venom: Lethal Protector: This essentially a personal thing with me, since I was getting into comics strongly around this time, and Venom was a character I identified with during a rough patch of time in my childhood. But I always felt that this potential period, of Venom moving away from his hatred and revenge of Spider-Man and towards his more ambitious goal, protecting and avenging "the innocent" (after all, his own motive for attacking Spider-Man was that he felt Spider-Man took away his innocence, as well as the innocence of others around him) was mishandled almost from the start. Firstly, it was the 90's, and there were limits to what you could do in the line of "maturity". No Marvel Knights, no MAX comics, etc. We still had fads like hologram covers and so on. Secondly, too much of an effort was made to make Venom into a mainstream superhero, when he should have been an anti-hero like The Hulk or Punisher. Thirdly, there was too much conveluted crap involving the alien symbiote, which overshadowed Brock as a man, a feat that has endured almost throughout the character's history. Everyone thinks Brock is a weak character because he wasn't, oh, the father of Peter's best friend or something. He wasn't developped well, but all this wacky sci-fi crap with symbiotes was overdone. The point of Venom was that Brock was a man who did have his morals, but when his world collapsed all around him, he snapped and then was given power by another tragic being.

I always saw Venom as being in the gray area of Marvel. He's a vigilante but a monterous one, ripping criminals apart and still eating brains, marking his territory with blood to drive fear. Venom is the Id behind Brock. Brock as a man continues with this struggle, this mission to avenge and protect innocence, because he feels there is nothing else he can do. He is hunted, hated, feared, etc. He has to avenge the innocent because he is forever trying to salvage his own, which he cannot. Venom would be the savage Urban Legend type of monster that hunts the wicked, and Brock would be the man who lives in harmony with the monster inside him, forced to live a nomadic existence because of it. Also, I would stop the notion that the alien symbiote is always "evil". Why are aliens always evil? That's the easy way out. I saw the symbiote as simply being what it was; needed to feed on a host body to live and the by-products of that provided the host power, but also altered the mind. I saw Brock and the symbiote merging as one in a bond that is almost like love, but not love (the lonely Brock would even imagine the asexual symbiote as a female voice and such, but that is purely subjective). And of course, few have Venom's twisted, dark humor in battle. I figured in this role Venom could have been more interesting, and I even wrote a fan-fic about it.

Moon Knight: I've had ideas on revamping Moon Knight for ages, but unforunately the dilemma is; do you have someone else become Moon Knight, or stick with Marc Spectre, who could be interesting in his own right? I always saw Moon Knight as an occultish, pulp hero in the line of The Shadow and The Phantom. Unfortunately, Marvel is a superhero company and so he came off eventually as a poor man's Batman, which is never going to work. I would kept the origin the same but expanded on the occult elements. For example, Spectre became Moon Knight when the Egyptian God of the Moon, Knoshnu, revived him from the dead after he was left in the desert to die by his fellow merc, Bushman. That's fine, but let's add some more. Take a page from The Phantom and claim that Moon Knight has existed almost from the rise of the Egyptian empire, the essence of the Fist of Knoshnu moving from one host to the other, passed on to someone new when the next one dies, to give the impression that Moon Knight, like justice, is immortal, and never dies. Marvel could use a "ghost who walks" in a sea of superheroes and mutants.

And for the powers. Moon Knight I always saw as brilliant because his very powers allow for his power levels to rise and fall, therefore, you can have him potent in one story and weaker in another for drama and it's all accurate! Have his strength rise in proportion to the phases of the moon; say, a full 3 ton class on a full moon, no gains during a New Moon, and various levels of strength in-between (Crescent Moon, Half Moon, 3-Quarter Moon). I would also allow the transformation into Moon Knight to be more mystical. The costume is a mystical one that forms over him at night, and he is forced to his task of fighting evil and righting injustice, otherwise his body will deteriorate. Moon Knight would also be able to travel where-ever moon light travels, responding and appearing almost automatically to moments of distress or evil. And, to get him out of overcluttered New York, Moon Knight operates around Africa/Middle East/areas around Egypt or that sector of the world, where Moon Knight is such a strong superstition that children have a rhyme about him to say as a prayer at night. Because, of course, there has always been a Moon Knight. Some Egyptian themed weapons wouldn't be bad, but less of a reliance on Bat-esque armor or technology and more on his mystical powers of strength and teleportation (and of course, Spectre's own honed skilled, kept to their peak vigor when in the magical costume and guise of Moon Knight).

Moon Knight should also encounter not only human evils and immorality, but supernatural ones, too. And I'd see him as distant toward superheroes. I mean, how do you invite The Shadow to the Avengers?

As for Spectre's sanity...being a vehicle for an almighty hand of vengence can surely drive a man mad. Ever read DC's The Spectre? Moon Knight is made to react almost automatically to distress, just as the generations change, so must the host and identity of Moon Knight. A legacy, which Marvel has little of aside for Green Goblins (notice how they are trying to backtrack and do that with Black Panther). Does Marc see himself as just a tool of the god or a man worthy of such power under his own right? Instant tension.

That's all so far.

[roach]

nice job on all Dread.....
.....one thing Hasnt the Legacy of Black Panther always been there????

[Anubis]

Holy crap. I always enjoy your post Dread. You even had me intrested in freakin Venom. :up: Great job. I would love to see Your Moon Knight. Hell, any Moon Knight would be good enough for me. :up:

[Anubis]

nice job on all Dread.....
.....one thing Hasnt the Legacy of Black Panther always been there????


It has but they never really went into it much.

[Anubis]

In the aftermath of Nu Avengers I'd launch a bunch of books based on characters who werent used...
Antman & Wasp
Submariner
Quicksilver
Wonderman


My thoughts of a Hank Pym Mini, with him trapped in a Subatomic universe were pretty much in the same vain as your ideas. I really feel that all the Disassembled tie-ins should came after the story was over. I haven't decided how the mini would have gone, but I would have had Hank coming out of it a stronger person because of the ordeal. I would have had him abandon the superhero roles all together and just became Dr.Pym again. With more of a Doc Savage thing going on with him. Really, Pym should have his own series.

[ThorneFox]

I suppose I'll throw my ideas into the mix.

"How would Dread do..."

Venom: Lethal Protector: This essentially a personal thing with me, since I was getting into comics strongly around this time, and Venom was a character I identified with during a rough patch of time in my childhood. But I always felt that this potential period, of Venom moving away from his hatred and revenge of Spider-Man and towards his more ambitious goal, protecting and avenging "the innocent" (after all, his own motive for attacking Spider-Man was that he felt Spider-Man took away his innocence, as well as the innocence of others around him) was mishandled almost from the start. Firstly, it was the 90's, and there were limits to what you could do in the line of "maturity". No Marvel Knights, no MAX comics, etc. We still had fads like hologram covers and so on. Secondly, too much of an effort was made to make Venom into a mainstream superhero, when he should have been an anti-hero like The Hulk or Punisher. Thirdly, there was too much conveluted crap involving the alien symbiote, which overshadowed Brock as a man, a feat that has endured almost throughout the character's history. Everyone thinks Brock is a weak character because he wasn't, oh, the father of Peter's best friend or something. He wasn't developped well, but all this wacky sci-fi crap with symbiotes was overdone. The point of Venom was that Brock was a man who did have his morals, but when his world collapsed all around him, he snapped and then was given power by another tragic being.

I always saw Venom as being in the gray area of Marvel. He's a vigilante but a monterous one, ripping criminals apart and still eating brains, marking his territory with blood to drive fear. Venom is the Id behind Brock. Brock as a man continues with this struggle, this mission to avenge and protect innocence, because he feels there is nothing else he can do. He is hunted, hated, feared, etc. He has to avenge the innocent because he is forever trying to salvage his own, which he cannot. Venom would be the savage Urban Legend type of monster that hunts the wicked, and Brock would be the man who lives in harmony with the monster inside him, forced to live a nomadic existence because of it. Also, I would stop the notion that the alien symbiote is always "evil". Why are aliens always evil? That's the easy way out. I saw the symbiote as simply being what it was; needed to feed on a host body to live and the by-products of that provided the host power, but also altered the mind. I saw Brock and the symbiote merging as one in a bond that is almost like love, but not love (the lonely Brock would even imagine the asexual symbiote as a female voice and such, but that is purely subjective). And of course, few have Venom's twisted, dark humor in battle. I figured in this role Venom could have been more interesting, and I even wrote a fan-fic about it.

Moon Knight: I've had ideas on revamping Moon Knight for ages, but unforunately the dilemma is; do you have someone else become Moon Knight, or stick with Marc Spectre, who could be interesting in his own right? I always saw Moon Knight as an occultish, pulp hero in the line of The Shadow and The Phantom. Unfortunately, Marvel is a superhero company and so he came off eventually as a poor man's Batman, which is never going to work. I would kept the origin the same but expanded on the occult elements. For example, Spectre became Moon Knight when the Egyptian God of the Moon, Knoshnu, revived him from the dead after he was left in the desert to die by his fellow merc, Bushman. That's fine, but let's add some more. Take a page from The Phantom and claim that Moon Knight has existed almost from the rise of the Egyptian empire, the essence of the Fist of Knoshnu moving from one host to the other, passed on to someone new when the next one dies, to give the impression that Moon Knight, like justice, is immortal, and never dies. Marvel could use a "ghost who walks" in a sea of superheroes and mutants.

And for the powers. Moon Knight I always saw as brilliant because his very powers allow for his power levels to rise and fall, therefore, you can have him potent in one story and weaker in another for drama and it's all accurate! Have his strength rise in proportion to the phases of the moon; say, a full 3 ton class on a full moon, no gains during a New Moon, and various levels of strength in-between (Crescent Moon, Half Moon, 3-Quarter Moon). I would also allow the transformation into Moon Knight to be more mystical. The costume is a mystical one that forms over him at night, and he is forced to his task of fighting evil and righting injustice, otherwise his body will deteriorate. Moon Knight would also be able to travel where-ever moon light travels, responding and appearing almost automatically to moments of distress or evil. And, to get him out of overcluttered New York, Moon Knight operates around Africa/Middle East/areas around Egypt or that sector of the world, where Moon Knight is such a strong superstition that children have a rhyme about him to say as a prayer at night. Because, of course, there has always been a Moon Knight. Some Egyptian themed weapons wouldn't be bad, but less of a reliance on Bat-esque armor or technology and more on his mystical powers of strength and teleportation (and of course, Spectre's own honed skilled, kept to their peak vigor when in the magical costume and guise of Moon Knight).

Moon Knight should also encounter not only human evils and immorality, but supernatural ones, too. And I'd see him as distant toward superheroes. I mean, how do you invite The Shadow to the Avengers?

As for Spectre's sanity...being a vehicle for an almighty hand of vengence can surely drive a man mad. Ever read DC's The Spectre? Moon Knight is made to react almost automatically to distress, just as the generations change, so must the host and identity of Moon Knight. A legacy, which Marvel has little of aside for Green Goblins (notice how they are trying to backtrack and do that with Black Panther). Does Marc see himself as just a tool of the god or a man worthy of such power under his own right? Instant tension.

That's all so far.

Dude if Marvel accepts your pitch for Moon Knight and my pitch for Werewolf By Night, we should do a crossover.

[roach]

I have ideas too...*pouts*

[Dread]

I actually posted several fan-fictions at Hype some years ago, but after their last major revamp most of them were lost. They were mostly Spider-Man stories (I have most of them saved on a disc). However, the one with Venom is still hidden in the fan-fiction forum.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52200&page=1&pp=25

Man, been two years since that one. That was my last major fic. I have a lot of ideas for more fics but haven't had the time or the energy in ages. I really should get some of them done.

Glad many of you seemed to like my ideas.

Now for another...

"How would Dread do..."

New Avengers: I mentioned this idea way back when someone had a "make your own Avengers team" topic in this forum, but since I guess the idea fits this topic I'll restate it, and hope not to be ripped off. Basically, my idea was for some ex-Avengers to try to gather many of the "younger" superheroes, the next generation as it were, and try to show them the ropes in hopes of keeping the spirit of the then-disbanded Avengers alive through them. I had dubbed it "Avengers: Next Generation" and had a very ambitious roster:

The Teachers: Retired Avengers who now seek to teach some of what they learned to the younger heroes:

Justice
Firestar (both now a married couple, Firestar expecting a child)
James Rhodes (fresh from having sold his armor in The Crew)
Stingray (I figured they could use his hi-tech base sometimes, and he could be the wise scientist of the team)

The Next Generation

Nova
Night-Thrasher
Namorita (planned on returning her Kymera name, if only to seperate her from Namor)
Speedball
Dusk
Ricochet
Prodigy
Squirrel-Girl
Darkhawk

Associates/Guest Speakers
Silohette
Rage
Moon Knight

Of course, the Next Generation was mostly a mishmash of various New Warriors and Slingers, which was the point. I figured if Marvel wants a "Teen Titans", they may as well do it right. I always saw the New Warriors at their best attempt at something like that, a team of teenaged heroes who one day wanted to become Avengers, much like many Teen Titans grew up and some actually became Justice Leaguers or solo heroes. Nova would be like your "head of the class" type, since he has always wanted to be an Avenger, Speedball evolving in a wisecracking kind of hero (who has a dark side), and Night-Thrasher actually calmed down a bit during his haitus and is hesitant to go back into "angry vigilante" mode. But essentially these three would want to become Avengers most of all. Darkhawk is an odd character and my angle for him was that he was becoming more violent and inhuman in terms of personality the more often he became Darkhawk, since basically what would happen is that Simon Powel's mind would go into Darkhawk's techno-organic alien body, while his human body was in some alien ship/realm, where Darkhawk was when Powel wasn't summoning him. I figured the more often Powel's mind was in Darkhawk, the sooner he would lose his humanity and start to become more violent, like the machine, a fate he seeks to avoid. As for the 3 remaining Slingers, they have become darker in nature since the death of their pal Hornet at the hands of Wolverine, and they want to become part of this new order because they don't trust "the adults" much anymore. They are basically tired of seeing the world and others kept in a "soap opera" by the current adult heroes, so they join so they can be more involved in affairs. And Squirrel Girl? That's solely on a poster's topic here and I figured she'd be fun as the least experienced person there, like the reader's way in (as well as by virtue of a recommendation by Iron Man, and her victory, somehow, over Dr. Doom).

I really hadn't planned a main storyline yet, aside for various short adventures that gave everyone specific focus one at a time. The point of the "teachers" wouldn't exactly be to teach them how to be heroes, since all of them have been heroes for an adventure or dozens of adventures. The point would be to show them how to be a team, like New Avengers. Some of those shorter adventures being: someone managing to get the War Machine armor and capitlize on the bad will the Avengers have post-Dissassembled and frame Rhodes for crimes, a potential tale connecting Thrasher to the vigilante Cardiac, Speedball driven over the edge by a serial killer, and so on. One theme would be that some of the Avengers old enemies who missed out on the chance to beat the real Avengers before they disbanded now may go after the "kids" simply out of spite, like Ultron. Teenage heroes need to earn their wings through trials of fire, so after some shorter adventures, it'd be time to have them face big guns.

That's all for now, again. Of course, Vaughn is now doing a somewhat simular thing with having reformed teen heroes assemble in "Runaways" right now, which is awesome beyond words.

[TheCorpulent1]

Cool angle on the remaining Slingers. I could see Prodigy and Nova vying for leadership and Speedball and Ricochet playing practical jokes on the others.

[Anubis]

Its a good idea, but I think that that woulda been a great idea for young Avengers, or hell, you coulda called Young Avengers New Avengers and just kept the real Avengers as well. I had a few ideas for Avengers after disassembled, but it mostly involved the old team coming back together with a few new ones like Nova. Always felt that he needed to be moved into the big leagues. And I also liked the inclusion of the Sentry, even though he brings with him alot of baggage. The key is how to bring him back without s*&ting on what he was originally created as. I'll have to think about it some more, I'll get back later.

[Dread]

Continuing along...

"How would Dread Do..."

Kristoff Von Doom: Only us hardcore Marvel zombies have any idea who he is, which is a shame because there is some potential here. Of course, any character that brings up a notion of a "legacy" outside of Goblins and Maximoff's is usually left in limbo or not even concieved in Marvel (which is not the same as DC, which has legacies up the wazoo). Cutting out the fat, Kristoff Von Doom was a Latverian lad that was plucked up by Dr. Doom's robots during one of the times he was believed to be missing or dead, and bred to be his successor or heir. Eventually Doom naturally was fine and started instructing the boy, although he ran around the Fantastic Four for a while during their pre-Onslaught 90's period. At latest he was under 14 years old, and depending on some artists, not much older than Franklyn Richards (who I doubt will ever reach puberty before I collect Social Security).

Anyhow, my idea for reviving him for the audience would be to essentially allow him to prove himself before Doom and the reader. I suppose it would be a "relaunch" and naturally a mini-series that Marvel would never in their right minds publish, unless they could stick either Wolverine or the word BENDIS on the cover. The rundown would be that Kristoff returns to Latvernia, now an older teenager of , say, 18-19 years old (aging 4-5 years when it has been at least a decade since your last appearence seems fair to me). His "limbo" is explained by him having been travelling the world learning things he needed to become a rightful "heir" to Doom, as Doom told him that he lacked time to raise him and to set out on his own, like he did as a youth. So Kristoff returns, the opposite in some ways than Doom, since he is young, handsome, and while he has learned many things, seems more intent on focusing on magic rather than science, although merging both in his own way (Doom relies more on science by choice, to contrast easily, even though as a mage, Doom is second only to Dr. Strange). But, Doom refuses to even grant Kristoff an audience until he is "worthy" or is a ruler himself. Which means Kristoff has to go off and conquer someplace, like Doom took over Latvernia. So the impetuous Kristoff chooses the one land that not even Magneto could control:

The Savage Land.

Now, I know everyone is groaning, "Argh, ANOTHER Savage Land story!" and I agree, the Savage Land has sadly been overdone to death. But to me it seems fit since it is a major Marvel land that usually doesn't have a stable ruler for very long, has its own mystique and mysticism, as well as technology at its core (alien and Atalantian technology powers the Savage Land). So the tale is essentially like a less savage Conan story, as Kristoff sets out with his armor, his skills/spells and what not, and sets out to take over the land, alone. And of course, the contrast here is that he is not as hard as Doom and thus doesn't spread wantan violence. He does things like actually UNITE the Fall People and the Mutates, who are usually brutal enemies (including, of course, a ritual combat duel with Ka-Zar). And there is a vast exploration as he learns new magics and the inner workings of the Savage Land. He's not a tyrant who rules with an iron fist, but naturally not perfect, either, being young and a bit "romantic" (in the literal sense, not the sexual sense, although he WILL fall for someone...).

The problem is when he eventually returns to Doom, now the "ruler" of the Savage Land, Doom automatically assumes that Kristoff is still alligned with him, and pretty much asks/threatens for Kristoff to turn over the Savage Land to Doom, or at best act as his puppet ruler of a colony. So this starts breif war between Latveria and The Savage Land, which would be the 3rd act. Naturally, Dr. Doom's inclination would be to invade with robots, flying warships, and laser canons, while the more "elf" magic esque Kristoff's inclination would be to, say, convert some T-Rex's to organic steel and quadruple their size, clog machines with plants, etc. Basically it would end with a treaty and Kristoff joining that proud few in Marvel who can claim leadership over a nation (Doom, Black Panther, Black Bolt, Namor, breifly Magneto, etc).

Its meant as an open ended tale that leaves a new dynamic for the Savage Land. Times wouldn't be perfect, and Kristoff would vow not to taint the land with outside forces or too much tech, but of course since everyone keeps using the Savage Land, there would be consequences, especially to those who may not have wanted Kristoff ruling there.

That's it.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, if you don't want to overdo the Savage Land even more, you could always make Kristoff REALLY precocious and have him try to conquer Asgard or Olympus or something. ;)

[Dread]

At his level, he couldn't really conquer Asgard or Olympus. He's not tough enough. I like the sort of "jungle explorer" bit that comes with the Savage Land, though. Like he gains allies as he goes along, that kind of thing. Really trying to unify things. I mean, soon as the Gods came back, he'd be pretty much punted.

Besides, the "ruling a land that Magneto gave up on" isn't a bad tagline.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I was just kidding. Although it'd be pretty interesting to see Doom himself lay siege to Asgard and win. If Asgard were still around, anyway.

[Dread]

The problem with Asgard would be that once the gods return, which is inevitable, Kristoff or Doom really shouldn't be able to maintain a hold over that for long, especially since the status quo of Asgard had Thor, Odin, or some Asgardian at the throne in-between Surtur attacks or Ragnorok stories.

But the Savage Land really keeps changing every time someone does a story, various power bases and factions, so Kristoff becoming a more permanent ruler there I figured would fit the MU better.

Frankly, my "Avengers: Next Generation" idea would probably draw more fan ire than some Bendis stuff, considering how I'd likely write the characters. Some of them I know and some I don't, and some I would be deliberately trying to take new spins on to make them more unique (like Darkhawk). And I guess the biggest mistake may be attempting to play Squirrel Girl straight, as in not in a goofy comedy comic like GLA.

[TheCorpulent1]

I believe Doom could both take and hold Asgard if he had some help. Maybe if he allied himself with Loki. Sure, he can't physically take on Thor or Odin, but he'd be more than a match for the lesser gods like Balder and Sif. And, let's face it, no one in Asgard is as smart as Reed or Doom. After all, Doom did manage to conquer not one, but TWO Earths, harness the powers of the Beyonder and the Silver Surfer, and out-manipulate Mephisto.

But I'm way off on a fanboy tangent now. I don't know how well Squirrel Girl would work outside of a comedy at first, but over time I don't think she would be too hard to swallow. All it takes is some serious issues for the character to deal with to force a reader to view them in a serious light.

[Dread]

Oh, Squirrel Girl would still be a "joker" type of hero like Speedball and Ricochet (although the loss of Hornet, his best friend, would make him a bit dark like the other Slingers). Just the point would be that she has this really silly power and she's trying to play with bigger leagues of people who have more classic and potent powers (and loads more experience and team unity). Characters like that tend to identify with the reader, who hardly is a potent superhero like Nova. Like, for example, her filing down her "rodent" like teeth to fit in with people better, is a kind of quirk that may give her some fan empathy. If readers didn't like the "trying to fit in" quirk, well, then X-MEN wouldn't have lasted long. ;)

Fanboy tangents are fine. Isn't that what this topic is sort of for?

[Anubis]

That it is my friend.


I gotta put something down. Dreads been blowing everybody away with his stuff.

O.k., my idea for a future FF. MC2, whatever. The team is lead by Val Richards. She never gains any powers, but she is supersmart, just like dad. She should have spent some time as a captive of Doom. Having had been schooled in the art of magic and been brainwashed to fight against her own family. She eventually gets saved by her family, and she vows never to use magic again. But of course, from time to time she has no other option. She grows up and marries the superhero formally known as Sammy the Fish boy, now called Argonaught, and eventually takes over as leader and CEO of Fantasticorp. She totally revitalizes the company. Extending trade with alternate diminsions. Tons of scientists and adventures, exploring various new worlds and subatomic universes. Imaginaught is now a job. And at the core is the FF. The main team which Ms. Fantastic leads.

Argonaut - Well, this guy needs a secondary mutation bad, so added to his ability to breath underwater we give him Super Strength and Durability. His story is that at some point in the future, a war between Humans and Mutants forces tons of Mutants to migrate. The mutant refugees are accepted into Atlantis by Namor. He takes the little fish kid under his wing and he becomes a pretty bad@$$ warrior. He meets Val during some adventure in Atlantis with the FF and they fall hard for each other. So he's there when she reorganizes the new FF.

Luna - Daughter of Quicksilver and Crystal, she joins up with the FF at the request of Val. Now, we know she doesn't have any mutations, but as a member of the Inhumans she has to undergo the Terrigen Mists thing. So she comes out as something of a butterfly thing going on. With wings and attena, and she has powers over light. Like Hard-Light constructs and force fields.

Franklin Richards - Well, he has to be toned down some. We could go with him keeping blocks in his mind to keep him just powerful enough like he is in the MC2 universe. We could say that he had alot of his powers drained away by lets say, Galactis? At any rate, he should be powerful, but not God like, but he does have the potential should something happen of a huge enough scale. Then, just like now, he would act through his subconcious. I'm still not sure weather to really put him on the team. I had an idea were he would become Galactis' Heald. ANd he would be the perfect Herald becaus instead of just warning people, he could create a pocket universe were they continue to live there lives without even knowing that their planet has been absorbed by the big G. Even carry around a pouch filled with tiny marbles that are really universes like on MIB or something.


I woulda had them form because, of course, DOOM. Escaping from where ever it is they had him locked up after Val escapes his grasp, promting the now retired FF to go after him on a inter dimensional chase. To finally find that basterd and put him down for good. Val recrutes the rest to go after them and help her parents. They could even touch down in the regular MU before finally going at it in the final battle in which here father and Doom are killed. She comes back and decides to keep this new FF together, to continue her fathers work. Take on the really hard jobs that the imaginaughts cant handle, and kick the @$$ of whoever wants some. Be it anybody from Anniulis to Mephisto or whatever.

[Dread]

Sounds pretty cool, Anubis.

Now another from me:

"How would Dread do.."

An Iron Fist solo series: Before I get into some long winded idea, I suppose I will admit that out of all my fan-fic/Marvel ideas, Iron Fist is the most simplistic and shallow. In fact, so much so that I could sum it up in about 4 words: Iron Fist beats people. But to this I would add, "who count." What I mean is, over the years, Iron Fist has lost a lot of his luster and I doubt most fans would consider him Marvel's UBER martial artist...when he should be. The problem is, if he is losing to Wolverine or stuck fighting nameless nobodies from his last attempt at a series (which was horribly mediocre at best), he won't get much attention. And of course, even a solo book with Iron Fist would include those lovely minxes, the Daughters of the Dragon for support (what with Luke Cage with the New Avengers and Jessica Jones and all). And may as well throw in the psychic Native American teenager from his last series for continuity.

The other basic statement would be, "Rand gets his groove back." Naturally, Danny decides to go back to being a Hero for Hire, but with Cage, his best partner, starting a family and working as a New Avenger, that means going back to solo work. However, he has been outside of the loop so long that even in the world of Marvel, his phone isn't ringing off the hook like it used to, which means he has to advertise the only way he knows how: by defeating a hi-profile villian. He engages the Rhino in a brawl, and due to skill and wit manages to defeat him, and naturally takes that change to advertise for the news media upon the victory. This leads to his first official job: he is hired to track down Roderick Kingsley, the original Hobgoblin, back from whatever island he is hiding out on with some stashed millions for trial. So this leads to the Paradise Islands where Mr. Kingsley gets a surprise appearence from the Iron Fist, with an aireal battle that provides many a sight for the tourists around them. Fist manages to beat him, which naturally will get SHIELD's attention, as he had been on a Top Ten list for years.

Meanwhile, of course, the Daughters of the Dragon will have tracked down and hooked up with Rand, Danny and Misty Knight of course having that chemistry, although Knight is seeing someone else. I had brainstormed another "hire" for Iron Fist, him being hired to capture Wolverine for his role in the murder of the Hornet, and upon defeating him, it turns out his hires were The Slingers, who want to see revenge. Naturally, some conversation may save Wolverine from the slammer, and hopefully avert the Slingers from a destructive course. I know I mentioned the Slingers in the last idea, but sue me, I see potential there with the death of their friend. They surely wouldn't ignore it. But this was an aside (as well as a possible fight with Silver Samurai).

The meat of the mission is that SHIELD hires Iron Fist to capture a criminal that no matter what they did, they could never find; The Foriegner. He's actually never stopped his crime campaign, he simply left NYC and did more international hits, of ambassadors and so forth with his cabal, outside the scope of many Marvel heroes. Every agent who got close to him wound up dead, which of course is why Fist is hired. While most fans wouldn't know who Foriegner is, they certainly would know the name of one of his associates: Sabretooth. The climax of the series would be a rematch between Iron Fist and Sabretooth, the latter being much more popular and powerful than when they duked it out before. WIZARD noted this idea first, but it is really a no-brainer. Of course, with Foriegner being able to hire more assassins (I considered Elektra, before she died again), and his ex-wife being Silver Sable, who knows who could be hooked in. I even debated an appearence from Black Cat, who also had ties to Foriegner once (and is being overrated, ahem, used a lot in MK Spider-Man).

Yes, it seems shallow. But I see Iron Fist as a pulse pounding martial artist, and therefore the only way to impress fans with his battles will be to construct exciting matches with villians they know and care about, so Fist can impress them. Of course, getting into Fist's head with his supporting cast may be key too, nailing down why he does what he does. He's driven by the loss of his father, but yet doesn't go that final mile and kill his enemies. Sabretooth, in his ruthless, unhonorable attacks, may push that moral over the edge.

[Anubis]

Cool. Thats sounds much better than the last piece of crap Iron Fist book they put out. I can't believe I bought like 5 issues of that. I was just as disappointed with DC's Richard Dragon book.

I like the idea of Fist taking on much more popular characters. Somebody needs to kick Wolvie's ass. Seriously. ANd I would love to see him get into it with Taskmaster or Deadpool. A storyarc with Rand vs Deadpool would be kick@$$.

[Dread]

I collected the entire Iron Fist series that was just out, and I agree it was just a seeming waste of an effort. The story was mediocre at best, and while in one way the manga-esque art fit the character, on the other hand it was often bland. And Fist was basically fighting a bunch of minions most times, or nameless combatants. Who cares? I didn't.

Again, the only way anyone is going to be impressed with Iron Fist is if he takes on some more well known, popular, and/or powerful characters. Taskmaster sounds like an interesting match-up, although given Taskmaster's acquired skills/weapons, Rand may not be able to really "take" the One-Man Avengers. Of course, DC's Deathstroke is capable of taking on the Teen Titans and the JLA, yet Nightwing is capable of holding his own with him solo, so, that says something. Deadpool could be interesting, especially since they DID once team up on a mission in the last Heroes for Hire series in '98. Wade basically helped save the day AND laughed at Fist's ballet slippers. Alas, during that storyline, Iron Fist was basically defeated by The Cat, who's pretty much a D-List Shang Chi also-ran.

Perhaps it would be interesting if Rand decided to maybe do some professional fighting on the side to help finance his comeback, and of course winds up fighting some more notorious takers, since being able to take the once-legendary Iron Fist seems to be bragging rights. Things like a rematch with The Cat or even fighting Mister X (who battled Wolverine a while back) could be interesting. The key is to basically amp him with spectacular battles against worthy foes, not nameless extras. No one's impressed if Fist can punch a robed minion through a tree. Now, if he punches Hobgoblin through a tree...

[Lord Blackbolt]

They should have gotton Chuck Dixon to write Iron Fist. I liked his recent Richard Dragon mini.

[Dread]

And now for yet ANOTHER idea from me. See how many I have? And trust me, these are only ideas that fit the topic title! They're not, say, general Spider-Man fan-fic ideas or something (I also have a Taskmaster/Mystique thriller idea).

"How would Dread do..."

Frogman: As in "The Fabulous" Frogman. I must admit that I came up with this idea about 2 years ago at least, but after Dan Slott's recent work in Marvel (She-Hulk, GLA), it is going to seem MUCH lamer and less original than it would have beforehand. Oh, well.

To start off with, while another "lame" teenage hero, Squirrel Girl, is one I planned to take seriously (sort of) in another idea, right off, Frogman is not meant to be completely serious. The idea was for it to try to capture some of the adventure/slapstick appeal of Lupin The Third anime. The few who know of it may get the idea.

The Frogman idea is basically an adventure parody, and pretty much runs with what we could call a "relaunch" or "revamp". Eugene Paul Colorito Patilo (whatta mouthful) is still the son of the villianous but lame Leapfrog, and he has aged to that of an older youth, 21. Since his time in limbo, he has gone through major changes. He won second prize in the lottery, but unfortunately, he quickly spent all of the money on his make-over. He dropped at least 50 lbs and went to the Orient, tracking down the one man who knows "Frog style" kung fu (there is a style for every animal). He gets some cosmetic surgery done and is now a bit lean (Spider-Man lean). And lastly, while he retains some of his old gadgets, Eugene decided that there are just too many superheroes in this 'burg for him to have much success at being one, so he decides to be a private investigator, who naturally will become involved in some super-efforts.

In terms of costume, he no longer wears one. He has his specialized "electric leaping coils" that allowed him to leap amazing distances installed in boots. He wears a green jacket and clothes, even has his hair a shade of spikey green now, and shades. He carries a "tongue whip", which is a whip that is colored like a frog's tongue, that is elastic and able to reach long distances and stick to surfaces at the tip, for swinging/disarming manuvers. He drives a green car he calls a "Frogmobile", and various "frog-themed gadgets". From a Tranq-Gun that has Poisonous Frog-Serum (from African frogs), to "Frog Gas" (putrid, made from many burned, dead frogs), you name it, he has a frog-themed weapon somewhere, colored green and with his trademark. The purpose is, of course, to mock Batman and other heroes who have gadgets for everything. He changes his monniker to Paul Patilo, a.k.a. Frogman, and with the Sensational Spider-Kid as his tech-maker and contact, he naturally goes off on cases that usually involve other D-Listers. As for supporting cast, the only one so far was fellow P.I. Dakota North, whom Frogman mocks because her name is "North Dakota" backwards, yet is attracted to.

He's a nerd trying to make up for lost time, so he's a bit horny. And while this is a parody series, Frogman also uses some of the ridiculousness of his universe to his advantage. For example, if a villian literally explains their powers to him, Froggie would say, "Thanks a lot!" and use it to defeat them. The main point would actually be that Frogman actually has become capable enough to fight people.

The series would pretty much be strings of cases strung along with a few reoccuring characters.

The first one involved a mock Playboy mansion, Silvermane the Geezer Cyborg (and his Maggia cronies, Hammerhead and Man Mountain Marko, now calling himself "Triple M"), a new Rose, White Rabbit and Walrus (of course) and some other crime figures in the search of missing amulet.

The second involved Frogman sent to find a teenage girl, who has been turned into a vampire against her will, and now has Blade insessently stalking her and wishing to stake her. Froggie must keep her around, figure out a way to revert her to normal, and keep from being taken out by the overbaring Blade. The running joke would be that constant titles of Wesley Snipes movies would be used as dialogue.

Another involved Froggie becoming involved with The Hypno Hustler, who now wants to mind-control people with legitimate music on sale. Only now, he's embraced the rap style as "H.H. Diddy Hust", which, of course, climaxes in a bizarre dance number and lesiure suits.

Another involved some plot that led to the Hellfire Club, only because a gang of British mutants that dress in colonial wear really can't be taken seriously all the time.

And the last idea involved the alliance of Mangaverse Spider-Man, NFL Superpro, Slapstick, TEAM America and so on as....The Fadz.

Truly a bizarre idea. But there it is.

[Shawkur]

I hate to say it, but the costume definitely needs some serious tweaking too. I know long-time fans have become attached to it but no new fan is going to see a character in lime green highwater jumpsuit with yellow slip-ons and a disco collar and say, "damn I want to read that!" The mask can stay though.

[Anubis]

And now for yet ANOTHER idea from me. See how many I have? And trust me, these are only ideas that fit the topic title! They're not, say, general Spider-Man fan-fic ideas or something (I also have a Taskmaster/Mystique thriller idea).

"How would Dread do..."

Frogman: As in "The Fabulous" Frogman. I must admit that I came up with this idea about 2 years ago at least, but after Dan Slott's recent work in Marvel (She-Hulk, GLA), it is going to seem MUCH lamer and less original than it would have beforehand. Oh, well.

To start off with, while another "lame" teenage hero, Squirrel Girl, is one I planned to take seriously (sort of) in another idea, right off, Frogman is not meant to be completely serious. The idea was for it to try to capture some of the adventure/slapstick appeal of Lupin The Third anime. The few who know of it may get the idea.

The Frogman idea is basically an adventure parody, and pretty much runs with what we could call a "relaunch" or "revamp". Eugene Paul Colorito Patilo (whatta mouthful) is still the son of the villianous but lame Leapfrog, and he has aged to that of an older youth, 21. Since his time in limbo, he has gone through major changes. He won second prize in the lottery, but unfortunately, he quickly spent all of the money on his make-over. He dropped at least 50 lbs and went to the Orient, tracking down the one man who knows "Frog style" kung fu (there is a style for every animal). He gets some cosmetic surgery done and is now a bit lean (Spider-Man lean). And lastly, while he retains some of his old gadgets, Eugene decided that there are just too many superheroes in this 'burg for him to have much success at being one, so he decides to be a private investigator, who naturally will become involved in some super-efforts.

In terms of costume, he no longer wears one. He has his specialized "electric leaping coils" that allowed him to leap amazing distances installed in boots. He wears a green jacket and clothes, even has his hair a shade of spikey green now, and shades. He carries a "tongue whip", which is a whip that is colored like a frog's tongue, that is elastic and able to reach long distances and stick to surfaces at the tip, for swinging/disarming manuvers. He drives a green car he calls a "Frogmobile", and various "frog-themed gadgets". From a Tranq-Gun that has Poisonous Frog-Serum (from African frogs), to "Frog Gas" (putrid, made from many burned, dead frogs), you name it, he has a frog-themed weapon somewhere, colored green and with his trademark. The purpose is, of course, to mock Batman and other heroes who have gadgets for everything. He changes his monniker to Paul Patilo, a.k.a. Frogman, and with the Sensational Spider-Kid as his tech-maker and contact, he naturally goes off on cases that usually involve other D-Listers. As for supporting cast, the only one so far was fellow P.I. Dakota North, whom Frogman mocks because her name is "North Dakota" backwards, yet is attracted to.

He's a nerd trying to make up for lost time, so he's a bit horny. And while this is a parody series, Frogman also uses some of the ridiculousness of his universe to his advantage. For example, if a villian literally explains their powers to him, Froggie would say, "Thanks a lot!" and use it to defeat them. The main point would actually be that Frogman actually has become capable enough to fight people.

The series would pretty much be strings of cases strung along with a few reoccuring characters.

The first one involved a mock Playboy mansion, Silvermane the Geezer Cyborg (and his Maggia cronies, Hammerhead and Man Mountain Marko, now calling himself "Triple M"), a new Rose, White Rabbit and Walrus (of course) and some other crime figures in the search of missing amulet.

The second involved Frogman sent to find a teenage girl, who has been turned into a vampire against her will, and now has Blade insessently stalking her and wishing to stake her. Froggie must keep her around, figure out a way to revert her to normal, and keep from being taken out by the overbaring Blade. The running joke would be that constant titles of Wesley Snipes movies would be used as dialogue.

Another involved Froggie becoming involved with The Hypno Hustler, who now wants to mind-control people with legitimate music on sale. Only now, he's embraced the rap style as "H.H. Diddy Hust", which, of course, climaxes in a bizarre dance number and lesiure suits.

Another involved some plot that led to the Hellfire Club, only because a gang of British mutants that dress in colonial wear really can't be taken seriously all the time.

And the last idea involved the alliance of Mangaverse Spider-Man, NFL Superpro, Slapstick, TEAM America and so on as....The Fadz.

Truly a bizarre idea. But there it is.


:up: :D


Tripple M. hilarious.

[Anubis]

I hate to say it, but the costume definitely needs some serious tweaking too. I know long-time fans have become attached to it but no new fan is going to see a character in lime green highwater jumpsuit with yellow slip-ons and a disco collar and say, "damn I want to read that!" The mask can stay though.

I liked the suit they gave him in that Exiles arc. It stayed true to the old suit, but was more updated, and didn't have the slippers. hell, what he had on in the recent solo wasn't that bad either.



http://www.paperbackreader.com/images/cover%20gallery/sm-ironfist3.jpg

[roach]

Im working on my How I'd do Captain America...to be posted soon

[Anubis]

I need to get off my ass and get that Ultimate War done.

[Dread]

I liked the suit they gave him in that Exiles arc. It stayed true to the old suit, but was more updated, and didn't have the slippers. hell, what he had on in the recent solo wasn't that bad either.



http://www.paperbackreader.com/images/cover%20gallery/sm-ironfist3.jpg
I haven't seen the Exiles costume.

Fist donned a new costume from the last Heroes for Hire in 1997-1999 which wasn't bad.

And technically, Rand never actually donned that costume in his latest series (the 4th attempt at an Iron Fist solo series). He only wore it on the cover, while inside he never did. Kind of like how Wolverine can appear in issues of New Avengers and Uncanny, yet not actually appear inside.

Some limits/stats for the "iron fist" are actually hard to find. The effect seems variable. I mean, it can smash through robots, demolish a vehicle speeding towards Rand, and even known Hercules down (of course, he was drunk when he got hit), but a set number would be nice.

[Anubis]

You know, I haven't looked at those issues in so long. I just kinda gave them away to my cousin and never looked back. He looked like he had a mullet in that too if i'm not mistakin.

So what power level would you like to see him at? knocking out gods or destroying sport utility vehicles? Thing about martial artists is that they can pretty much do anything. Take somebody like Karnak for example. He has the super computer brain that can spot any flaw, so he can topple mountains if he hits it in the right place. I'm not saying Rand should suddenly be at that level, but being as good as he is supposed to be, he should at least be able to topple a few low level heavy weights. Like Rhino, Or Sasquatch, hell, I'd like to see him take one of the size changing dudes down. I could see iron Fist dropping a 60ft tall Atlas or something. Well, maybe Hank Pym. I think Atlas is on a whole other level at this point.

[Dread]

Past fashion trends, whether costumes (trenchcoats over spandex) or hairstyles (mullets) tend to die very slowly in comics. Especially if they become "attributed" to the character. Nightwing took forever to lose the mullet, I think. Longshot still has one (but he was the personification of an 80's fashion character; had the black tight leather, big hair, man-purse, etc), and so on.

Technically in that Heroes for Hire comic, Rand only knocked Herc DOWN with his "iron fist", and Herc had lost his immortality, and was drunk to boot. On the next page he was sitting upright and all.

I am aware that in comics, martial artists are very potent. Hell, Elektra has been capable of kicking open steel doors, and there are tons of martial artists in Marvel that either match or surpass her. Iron Fist should be one of them. Of course, he can use his "chi" for more than the "iron fist" attack. He can augment his strength, speed, stamina, etc. to peak human (Cap) levels with it, as well as use it to heal the injuries of himself or another. He has very occasionally been capable of absorbing energy from outside sources to tap into his "chi". Not to mention being able to physically attune his body so that he is not overwhelmed by natural elements (or at least can withstand them better than a normal man).

I've been to forums where they have agrued that Taskmaster could be almost invincible BECAUSE of these laws of comic martial arts (at least when fighting most non-uber heroes).

Usually in stories, the "iron fist" is like many powers, its potency rises and falls depending on what the story requires.

[Anubis]

Iron Man Disassembled tie in.

Now one of the problems I had with disassembled was that for the most part, none of the tie ins really had anything to do with what was going on. They just vaguely mentioned it. So, my idea of Iron Man Disassembled is based off of my earlier idea for how I wanted Avengers Disassembled to go. (See first post)

This takes place after disassembled; Tony's legs are gone. He and the Maria Stark Foundation are being sued left and right by victims of the tragedy and their loved ones. The UN and United States force him to disband the Avengers as well as forcing his resignation as Secretary of Defense. And the press is having a field day tearing him down and saying how this is all his fault for allowing this unstable Mutant to join the team in the first place. Tony withdraws. Rumiko leaves him, and the bottle is looking pretty damn good by now. Of course he can't really get drunk anymore (another little thing Bendis forgot) because of his robot heart. Right now all he's got is Jarvis. He can't even get out of bed anymore due to his depression. He didn't even finish the new armor he was building to help with his new handicap. As far as the world is concerned, Iron Man is no more. It's then that Jarvis organizes an intervention of sorts for Tony. All his closest friends come and share stories about Tony and how he has pulled through some pretty messed up moments. So that’s Cap, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Pepper and Happy, Jim Rhodes, Wasp, and others. This of course gets Tony off his @$$. He finishes the Armor, at the end and presents it to the world. Saying that he is giving up on being Iron Man. With his injuries, he can't do it anymore, but of course; we all know he is just going to keep doing it. Dudes got something to prove now. To his friends and to himself. He has taken back his secret ID. Of course now it's a much more believable one seeing as he's freakin crippled.

As for what comes next, I think that there should be somebody who should be out to prove that Stark is still flying around in the armor. Maybe a reporter for the Globe, trying to expose him. Well, that’s how I would do it anyway.

[Dread]

Interesting idea. What would be your thoughts on some upgrades to Iron Man's armor? Both Ellis and Bendis have claimed he needs to be upgraded to the 21st century, so, any ideas?

[TheCorpulent1]

The outdated repulsor rays must be replaced by a cell-phone ray that creates tumors on villains' ears!

[roach]

ok this is a radical Black Panther Idea I had that I know Marvel wont do but I had a way to make BP more accessible and realistic. The story would take place in the days of slavery as the Wakandan people are conquered and sent to the americas as slaves. There we meet T'chaka in a sailing ship on it's way to america. He is the Black Panther but has been beaten and subdued. T'chaka breaks free in america and begins to free his bretheren. he actually leads a revolt in his BP costume and starts a legend about the cat-like freedom fighter. Through out the years where trouble has reared it's head the Black Panther has been there. Fast forward to modern times Isaiah Davis lives in Los Angeles and denies his birthright as the next Black Panther...until the Rodney King incident sparks the riots. It is during this time that Isaiah undertakes the trial to become Black Panther. BP takes to the streets and begins to calm the crowds down. Now realizing his place and responsibility he fight injustice where ever his help is needed.

[Anubis]

Sounds like a pretty good what if. I wouldn't Retcon it into the 616 universe, but this could be one kick@$$ out of continuity Graphic Novel.

[Anubis]

Interesting idea. What would be your thoughts on some upgrades to Iron Man's armor? Both Ellis and Bendis have claimed he needs to be upgraded to the 21st century, so, any ideas?


I recall a few years ago, they had some sort of liquid metal thing going on with his armor. I believe it was around the time they introduced Rumiko and the Sentient Armor showed up. Well, I would expand upon that. Forget a box he has to have shipped around and calling it a car. I always thought the briefcase bit was a bit silly too. This stuff should be a part of him. Adapting some of that tech they used to make the super sentinels in New X-Men. The suit learns, and develops defenses on it's own. You know, can't be injured twice by the same thing. Enhanced force fields. Instant radio telepathy. Maybe even have something like that Tech pack thing that the Fixer uses. Instant creation of complicated devices. I don't know, maybe that would be too powerful. I would like to have him place the Vision’s personality matrix into his armor. A sentient artificial intelligence you can trust...some of the time, running the basic functions of the suit. And all this liquid metal makes up his artificial legs. SO it kinda envelops his body in a sleek, new design. Something that stays true to the original, but just looks cooler.

[RockSP]

ok this is a radical Black Panther Idea I had that I know Marvel wont do but I had a way to make BP more accessible and realistic. The story would take place in the days of slavery as the Wakandan people are conquered and sent to the americas as slaves. There we meet T'chaka in a sailing ship on it's way to america. He is the Black Panther but has been beaten and subdued. T'chaka breaks free in america and begins to free his bretheren. he actually leads a revolt in his BP costume and starts a legend about the cat-like freedom fighter. Through out the years where trouble has reared it's head the Black Panther has been there. Fast forward to modern times Isaiah Davis lives in Los Angeles and denies his birthright as the next Black Panther...until the Rodney King incident sparks the riots. It is during this time that Isaiah undertakes the trial to become Black Panther. BP takes to the streets and begins to calm the crowds down. Now realizing his place and responsibility he fight injustice where ever his help is needed.

Not trying to flame you or anything...just wondering: Why do you think BP isn't accessible now? Why should he be "more" realistic?

[roach]

What separates DC characters from Marvel characters is that you could be them. Spider-Man has the same problems as we do. Same as the X-men. I dont think that Supes or Bats have a problem that at any time I could relate to. That is what makes Spidey and the Xmen popular because we can relate to them. Now with the Black Panther you have a character who runs a country and is the best warrior this country has to offer....I wrack my brain coming up with good excuses why he comes to the states? I like what Priest did but there are only so many times that this guy will be kicked out his country or he comes to the states to solve a problem....and I didnt take it as a flame just a good question.

[Anubis]

point.

[Dread]

I actually like that Black Panther isn't as "urban". Most black characters from Luke Cage to Night-Thrasher and even Rocket Racer and Falcon have that "grew up on the streets, have street-cred, get involved in civil rights stuff" issues that come up with them. Not that this isn't valid, but, it makes them as predictable as Cap, Hank Pym and Hawkeye without masks (clue, they all look simular). I saw Black Panther as being a lot like Namor, someone who leads a nation and would be arrogant and out of his place in the city. I've never been too interested in him enough to read his series, but I thought he had a unique origin.

As for Anubis' Iron Man ideas, the liquid metal (nanobot?) ideas sound interesting, would make the name make more sense. I'm not sure about the sentient armor thing, but a simple AI with voice commands could be interesting.

[TheCorpulent1]

He already had sentient armor. It tried to kill him. :(

I don't think I'd like sentient armor too much myself. It gives off too much of a Knight Rider vibe, and Hasselhoff's already corrupted one staple Marvel character.

[Anubis]

The thing is, I do see roach's point about BP. He isn't the kind of character that you can relate to, unless your Prince William or something. And in that sense, yeah, I understand where roach is coming from. But I dig the way that DC has these Icons. These characters you should aspire to be. And thats the way I feel about BP. As a black man, there are so few characters in comics that you can really hold up and say, Icon. (And not even the character "Icon" lived up to that standard) BP is that Iconic black character in my eyes . Thats why, I wouldn't want to see him changed into a reluctant african american hero, and having that be THE Black Panther. But the idea for the story is a good one. And like I said, it would have been a great What If?, or Graphic Novel. Or even a new charcter in genral.

As far as the Sentient Armor thing, I figured that, if something ever happened to Vison, I thought that him working with Iron Man, would be a great idea. Maybe him actually helping to control the suit isn't all that great an idea. Even I question it. Because then it would be Iron Man and Vision, and if you got basically a super AI running the suit, then whats the point of having Stark? So, yeah, thats a bad idea.


I would like to adapt some of the stuff from the Enginer of the Authority. The ability to create weapons at will. But I think it should be more of a database of weapons. A digital Armory of weapons that the suit can create on the fly. Kinda like how Kang's got his temporal armory and can summon forth some truely devistating weapons at will. I would also go ahead and bump him up to Class 100 Strength. (even though I don't believe in the Marvel Class system.) The thing is, I don't know if this would make him too powerful. The ability to create weapons as he sees fit, coupled with his briliant mind, might make him waaaay too powerful, but then again, I think Iron Man should be one of the most powerful heros on the planet.

[roach]

and please dont get it wrong that I dont like Bp because he is one of my faves.

[roach]

anyhow im in the middle of writing a miniseries based on Captain America. It fleshes out Cap's origin and answers some questions like who trained Cap. We see him not only go thru the physical training but the mental tactical training. It'll also update Bucky....it gives a real concrete reason why Cap would take him into battle. I am alos working to place Cap's origin within real events. The Red Skull would become Hitler's Darth Vader. I'll deal with Caps first costume and shield and why he changed them and I'll also touch upon the events of Truth.

[Anubis]

Looking forward to it.

[Shawkur]

anyhow im in the middle of writing a miniseries based on Captain America. It fleshes out Cap's origin and answers some questions like who trained Cap. We see him not only go thru the physical training but the mental tactical training. It'll also update Bucky....it gives a real concrete reason why Cap would take him into battle. I am alos working to place Cap's origin within real events. The Red Skull would become Hitler's Darth Vader. I'll deal with Caps first costume and shield and why he changed them and I'll also touch upon the events of Truth.


Sounds cool, would it be definitively set in 616 or be kind of an Ultimate-type thing?

Ive had thoughts on how Bucky could be handled in a movie or something , he'd be a teenage orphan who falsifies his records to join the Air Force. He quickly excels and lands the assignment as Cap's pilot. Eventually Cap would deduce Bucky's real age but would sympathize with the patriotic orphan who has been told he is "too small" to serve his country and decide to allow him to continue on as his pilot but with the intention of keeping him as far away from danger as possible. Ofcourse something would happen (plane crash in enemy territory, Bucky having to make the save for Cap, ect.) and Bucky would prove to be an able partner to Captain Rogers. His costume would be made up of articles not uncharacteristic of a pilot (flight\aviator jacket, cargo-ish pants, boots, ect.) except for the domino mask which he would perhaps adopt as a joke at first. It would be important to emphasize Bucky's iron will and intelligence\wisdom\skill beyond his years.

This pretty much mirrors my take on how Robin or any teen sidekick could work in a movie or in a "real world" take on the character. You would have to really get in the head of the main character to show how seriously they empathize with younger person and allows them to function as a sidekick, if only in a limited capacity that shows that their safety is a serious concern of the hero, atleast until they prove their worth as a partner.

[roach]

My version of Bucky would go like this....Bucky and his brother join up to get off the streets since they are orphans. Bucky however is only 16 years old. However they allow him in as long as he is in the same unit as his older brother.(Military policy at the time allowed this until the Sullivans incident where 5 brothers were on the same ship and it was torpedoed by the Japanese. All five died. The military instituted a policy that family cant serve in the same unit and if a service member becomes the last surviving member he gets separated from military service). In a battle Bucky's unit is ambushed and if it wasnt for Bucky's heroic efforts they would have all been killed. However his older brother is killed. Military policy is to put Bucky out but he has no where to go so they keep him in and away from the from the front lines at a military base....the same military base that acts as Cap's HQ. Steve takes Bucky under his wing when many of the other soldiers want nothing to do with Bucky since he wont see action and they are jealous. It is then that he discovers Steve is Cap and trains him as a side kick.

[Anubis]

Sounds cool, would it be definitively set in 616 or be kind of an Ultimate-type thing?

Ive had thoughts on how Bucky could be handled in a movie or something , he'd be a teenage orphan who falsifies his records to join the Air Force. He quickly excels and lands the assignment as Cap's pilot. Eventually Cap would deduce Bucky's real age but would sympathize with the patriotic orphan who has been told he is "too small" to serve his country and decide to allow him to continue on as his pilot but with the intention of keeping him as far away from danger as possible. Ofcourse something would happen (plane crash in enemy territory, Bucky having to make the save for Cap, ect.) and Bucky would prove to be an able partner to Captain Rogers. His costume would be made up of articles not uncharacteristic of a pilot (flight\aviator jacket, cargo-ish pants, boots, ect.) except for the domino mask which he would perhaps adopt as a joke at first. It would be important to emphasize Bucky's iron will and intelligence\wisdom\skill beyond his years.

This pretty much mirrors my take on how Robin or any teen sidekick could work in a movie or in a "real world" take on the character. You would have to really get in the head of the main character to show how seriously they empathize with younger person and allows them to function as a sidekick, if only in a limited capacity that shows that their safety is a serious concern of the hero, atleast until they prove their worth as a partner.


Seems like a decent way to do Bucky in a movie. Maybe the entire first movie could take place during WWII, and end with Bucky's death and Cap frozen in ice. Lots of time to really get into the meat and potatos of the characters. Plus with a movie to get used to the kid, his death would hit that much harder.

[Anubis]

My version of Bucky would go like this....Bucky and his brother join up to get off the streets since they are orphans. Bucky however is only 16 years old. However they allow him in as long as he is in the same unit as his older brother.(Military policy at the time allowed this until the Sullivans incident where 5 brothers were on the same ship and it was torpedoed by the Japanese. All five died. The military instituted a policy that family cant serve in the same unit and if a service member becomes the last surviving member he gets separated from military service). In a battle Bucky's unit is ambushed and if it wasnt for Bucky's heroic efforts they would have all been killed. However his older brother is killed. Military policy is to put Bucky out but he has no where to go so they keep him in and away from the from the front lines at a military base....the same military base that acts as Cap's HQ. Steve takes Bucky under his wing when many of the other soldiers want nothing to do with Bucky since he wont see action and they are jealous. It is then that he discovers Steve is Cap and trains him as a side kick.

Cool. Saving Private Bucky over here. I like it. It's playing up on their similarities. Both want to fight for their country, but were kept away because of their limitations. In a sense, it's kinda like Batman and Dick Grayson.

[Muze]

thank you Anubis! there are a lot of things i'd change about the Marvel Universe but i'll start small w/ Doctor Doom's origin and place in the Marvel Universe.

"To the Devil, a Son"
Werner & Cynthia von ______were impoverished romani who felt their lot in life would change if Cynthia could only bear them a child. Desperate, Werner turned to the Benga Dom (Devil Speakers); a rogue tribe of gypsies who secretly 'rule' the world behind-the-scenes & are rumoured to deal in black magic (mix of the Illuminati & Maffia). They have Werner bring a very reluctant Cynthia to one of their hidden meeting places & leave her. what happens after that is unknown (except by me)but she returns to Werner, an hour later, in her last stages of pregnancy (hint: Rosemary's Baby). Cynthia dies but not before delivering Werner a son; Victor von Doom. suspecting the evil intentions of the Benga Dom, Werner flees outer-Latveria w/ his son. they make it to Italy. young Victor is left on the steps of an orphanage hours before Werner takes his own life.
Victor grows to be an exceptional child obsessed w/ discovery & the acquisition of power. his theories on quantum physics get him noticed by America's Empire State University. He's undeniably a genius but extremely reclusive & anti-social. he's often absent from class but coddled by his professors because of his brilliance. Victor has been using his time in the states to further research an urban legend; a fabled sect of romani wisemen who steer events in the world for their own purposes. Victor is attracted by this concept. he takes time off of school to return to Europe & find the sect; Benga Dom. they find him first & they are none to pleased w/ vonDoom's inquiries. they reward him by beating young Victor within an inch of his life, removing his face (Benga Dom tradition is to "erase" their enemies), and leaving him out in the country to be eaten by wolves.
the Benga Dom underestimated Victor's strength of will. he survives the ordeal and, once he's back on his feet, he hunts down the members of the sect who left him to die & returns the favor. word travels to the Benga Dom elders. they are impressed. they invite Victor into the sect; not letting on that they recognize him as the child of Cynthia von Doom, because of a birthmark. Victor is even more ambitious than they suspected. he quickly rises up the ranks of the society & introduces them to his own advanced science.
Victor returns to college (this all took a little over a year) w/ no one suspecting just how much he's changed & w/ a shadow army at his command. w/ the onset of the Age of Heroes, Victor realizes that they are a potential threat to the Benga Dom. he uses his advanced science to create a fictional "super-villain" identity; the fearsome self-appointed world conqueror Doctor Doom. in reality "Doom" is just hollow, yet formidable, costume armor used to distract the spandex set/cover the activities of the Benga Dom. sometimes it's a member of the sect in the armor. sometimes it's remote-controlled. sometimes, it's Victor himself.
Meanwhile, Victor has generated a lot of capital for Latveria by building a munitions factory in the area. even the U.S buy weapons from von Doom (he takes the last name "von doom" to honor the cult); knowing nothing of his secret life. in the following years, vonDoom will discover the full truth about the Benga Dom society & the secret that the elders have been keeping from him. the society's rise to power was no accident. they've been dealing w/ demons for a good century. how Doom reacts to this revelation should be interesting. &, in case you were wondering, vonDoom designed himself a bioplasmic mold of his old face that, once attached, mimics a wide range of emotions, except fear. the rest of the time, he wears a gold face mask crafted by the Benga Dom.
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/30933846944.67.P2.GIF (http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/30933846944.67.P2.GIF)

there are things about Doom that i don't like. his manner of speaking. it's very corny as you'd expect from a classic marvel villain. i've gotten around it by making "Dr Doom" an act. it's totally Victor's creation & shows a hidden flare for the dramatic. likewise, i hate the depiction of him as royalty ex. lounging around on his throne w/ a goblet of wine. i don't like this because, then, i'm supposed to believe him as a fierce warrior who can wrestle a lion to death. my version of Doom would be, at his core, be a very savage individual; like a wolf in a business suit. but he'd be able to put on the 'bruce wayne' face for business associates. the difference would be that he doesn't revel in it or spend his private time lounging around or wine tasting. he'd be more of a warrior and that'd be the major difference between he & Reed. speaking of that, i'd ditch the rivalry w/ Reed or, at least, the obsession w/ him. Reed's the only one on his level intellectually but Doom would be beyond competing w/ Reed for anything other than sport. any encounter he has w/ the FF would be due to the Four's unexpected involvement in a Benga Dom operation. the cult would, for instance, try to conquer the Negative Zone and that would conflict w/ Reed's exploration of the dimension. otherwise, von Doom would share a monthly internet chess game w/ his old college associate. i'd initially have Reed no nothing about Doom's darker side. i introduced the cult to make Doom less of a loner. he's clearly smarter than his fellow benga dom but they share the romani culture. they'd all be willing to die for him. Lancer would be a part of the cult & 1 of Doom's more trusted associates. :doom:

[Muze]

i could be at this all night. thanks for the thread. there are characters who i'd like to connect to achieve a more...uniform Marvel Universe.


i'd have Reed Richards, Sue Storm, Tony Stark, T'challa, Victor von Doom, Ben Grimm, and Janet Van Dyne all meet at ESU. this would require some age-norming but would result in Reed being a little younger than his regular marvel universe counterpart (like in the movie) and Jan being slightly older.

timeline:
when Reed, Doom, Ben Grimm, and Pym are seniors...

Sue Storm, Tony Stark, and T'challa would be freshmen

Reed and Doom would sort of be super-seniors since, because of their brilliance, they'd be given a private lab to continue their individual research projects. they'd both be the envy of the science department. Sue Storm's dad would be a professor at the University and introduce his daughter to Reed. but there would be no initial romance because of Reed's absolute cluelessness.

Sue Storm, and this is important to me, would be a real brainiac if i had my say. she'd be someone who had a good knowledge of the sciences and could understand Reed's sciencebabble. the Fantastic Four, in my reality, would function more like a group of explorers and superhuman thinktank w/ Reed and Sue as the head scientists. they'd consult other hero groups on unexplained phenomena when they weren't off exploring new worlds. Sue would probably have a specific field of study like biology. there she would be quickly plucked up by her first suitor..

...brilliant young scientist-in-training Henry Pym. Pym would be a perfect-10; blonde haired captain of the ESU football team type on the outside. but, privately, he'd be from a broken home, on anti-depressants, and ashamed of both facts. but, established early on, would be Henry's need for perfection. he picks Sue because she's...perfect. everyone in the science department wants her. all of the jocks want her. so Pym must have her. and they make a good-looking couple. but Pym's insecurities and mood swings get the better of him. the two split up, on good terms, and remain friends. Pym rebounds with a new york socialite named Janet Van Dyne, because she's almost the exact opposite of Sue; she's not cerebral, more the cheerleader type, more of a flirt, etc. once Sue finally catches Reed's eye, the two couples sort of have an ongoing competition. Hank scrambles to get superpowers after Reed's cosmic accident & Jan eagerly agrees to let her hubby-to-be implant wings in her back. the two were made for each other. and i might as well get this out of the way. i've already characterized Pym as being prone to mental illness. he will have bouts of insanity; some caused by his own self-experimentation. but he'd *never* strike his wife. he might threaten violence as he spouts villainous gibberish. but nothing resembling spousal abuse. & the two don't marry while he's a schizo yellowjacket either. in between the Fall of Yellowjacket & his being the backbone of the Avengers West Coast, Hank spends some time in an asylum. i think it might be cool to have an Avengers Founder who once wore a straightjacket. takes some of the pressure off the Hulk.

Tony Stark comes in as the bright new shining science star but spends most of his time bedding female classmates, partying, and racing the police in his technologically-souped up sports car.

T'challa comes in about the same time but just sort of blends in and gets his education. his classmates would never suspect that he'd go on to become the chieftain of a wakandan tribe.
btw, Bruce Banner would have gone to college elsewhere but still have been known by Reed and the other brains for his research with atomic energy. they'd basically all want his job w/ the military until he gets caught in that explosion.

Franklin and Val Richards would be twins. Franklin would get his father's natural curiousity and would, one day, become a scientist to rival his dad (gotta think about the future). his sister would be the more athletic/adventurous type and would develop, later in life, great psionic ability.

not too much has changed about Ben and Johnny. i think their backgrounds work. i might have Ben and Reed become friends after the former saves Reed from a 'freak' lab accident. unbeknownst to either was that Von Doom had tampered w/ Reed's experiment; attempting to get rid of the competition for some kind of science award. so Doom would have, inadvertently, insured Ben's position on the Fantastic Four.

Jennifer Walters would end up being a close family friend.

[Muze]

as for a specific storyline that i would change? i never liked the ending to the Heroes for Hire series. Stark-Fujikawa buys Oracle out and the heroes resign soon afterwards. that's not cool. i would have liked to see them get funding from somewhere else; like becoming a side project for Holden Holliway from the She Hulk series. temperament-wise, he seems like a good replacement for Jim Hammond; who would want to spend more time w/ the Invaders. as for any individual changes.

. i wish Iron Fist were a better businessman. he needs something to differentiate him from the other martial artists; besides just being a blonde white guy, imo. i like the idea of him being a little more conservative-minded than his friend Luke. not necessarily a full-blown republican but less of an idealist. he is from a culture in which beating the other guy is encouraged. i'd also like to see him use his powers a little more destructively like he did against the Black Panther. the natural reaction of a robber shouldn't be a roll of the eyes as the guy w/ the yellow slippers flips onto the scene. a new costume might help but the glowing hands don't hurt neither.

. Cage is fine; as long as he isn't characterized as an idiot or a pushover. come to think of it, Luke might be the more conservative of the two. his dad was pretty strict and Luke likes money. but who knows?

. Spiderwoman - i would have Jessica Drew make her big re-intro to the marvel universe as a part of H4H. they need it. she needs it. she fits perfectly w/ the lineup and adds some missing energy projection abilities and the female perspective. since she's a loner, it might help if she were steered towards a leadership position within the group. Iron Fist was never comfortable leading and the others were really too independent to follow him.

. Black Knight - you'd think he'd be popular. what i think Dane needs is the Bruce Campbell treatment. he just needs to be kicked until he snaps and becomes cool again. i like that Dane is equally soft-spoken and a real firebrand when angered. i like that he's a perfectionist when it comes to swordsmanship. H4H needs a level-headed individual like Dane. i think he should be ultimate every man who, through no choice of his own, wound up w/ magical weaponry. he'd be more interested in watching hockey or tinkering with old motorcycles than putting on a costume. but he'd be cursed to always have to pick up that sword & defend people. so, basically, i'd want Dane to be the guy whose good at what he does but doesn't really give a d*mn most of the times. and i think he should look like Ben Browder from 'Farscape' & have his own private lab at Oracle where he can build hi-tech/medieval-in-appearance weaponry.

. SheHulk - she's fine as is. i liked her mercenary attitude in the Ostrander H4H series. they needed a colorful lawyer and she fit the bill.

. Ant-Man - i hate that he's domesticated but it's being a single-father that makes him a good fit for a hero for *hire* team. he's not a character who shines unless he's specifically needed for something, so i'd try to have his role on the team overlap Dane's as little as possible. if it's a problem of physics or describing something in scientific turns, that would be the Black Knight's job. if there's a giant robot stomping around manhattan, Ant-man's the guy you want to crawl into a seam & shut the beasty down for the last minute save. if there's a hi-tech security system that needs bypassing or a computer files to be hacked, choose Ant-Man. otherwise, there's nothing w/ his personality. he's a movie & television freak & more gregarious than Dane. & you can't forget Cassie.

that's just my lineup. everyone has ideas for who should appear as a hero for hire. i just like to have a good identifiable 6 to play around w/. whenever i add someone else i get that Secret Defenders vibe.:hyper:

[Zoken]

it wouldn't be hard for an underage man to join the military. during WWII american boys as young as 13 joined up. it wasn't all that uncommon an occourance.

[Muze]

i would have the Defenders to be the first real hero team to emerge during the age of heroes. sure, the Fantastic Four would appear on the scene as a group but would be more like celebrities w/ powers than superheroes. the Defenders would basically be the premiere fighting group (until the Avengers come along); made up of heroes with some name recognition. the Sentry would be the defacto leader of the group. he'd be accompanied by Doctor Strange, the Silver Surfer, Valkyrie, and a reluctant monarch named Namor. the undeniably powerful group would be met with suspicion, initially, but be tolerated because of the Sentry's presence. all of that changes with the coming of the Void. with Sentry branded as a traitor, the Defenders disband. it should be noted that the Avengers would be formed, unbeknownst to the individual members, as a protective measure by the government; a protection against the Defenders who answered to no govt & operated a lot like the Order.
So all traces of the Sentry were erased like in his mini-series. but that doesn't stop a new Defenders team from forming. this time it's fate that draws them together. there are certain heroes preordained to join the team; all having a special place on it. that's why seemingly c-list characters like Nighthawk and Hellcat are members. it's also why the Hulk joins up. he was drawn to team because of his connection to the Sentry. and, strangely enough, it's only the childlike Hulk and Doctor Strange who remember the Sentry.

[Anubis]

Muze, wow, some really great stuff right there. I love the Doom ideas. Secret society, son of the devil, great stuff.

And the H4H stuff is good too. Never got the chance to read the H4H stuff that went on during Heros Reborn, why they wont put it out in trade I'll never know. As for any other members you could add, how about Haywire? I was going through some of my old Avengers Trades and I came across this Squadron Supreme cast off. When they all went back to they're reality, he chose to stay behind becasue he didnt' really have anything to go back too. He was a lot like Hawkeye, personality wise, and his powers were...well...kinda lame. Ability to produce a strange wire like substance that was very durable, and could trap and hold people. I think he was able to hold Warbird for a bit, so I guess that can gauge his power a bit. All he needs is a new costume, and somebody to work with his powers. See what they can add to make him a better character. For the most part, he's a clean slate. Do with him what you will.

[Muze]

Muze, wow, some really great stuff right there. I love the Doom ideas. Secret society, son of the devil, great stuff.

And the H4H stuff is good too. Never got the chance to read the H4H stuff that went on during Heros Reborn, why they wont put it out in trade I'll never know. As for any other members you could add, how about Haywire? I was going through some of my old Avengers Trades and I came across this Squadron Supreme cast off. When they all went back to they're reality, he chose to stay behind becasue he didnt' really have anything to go back too. He was a lot like Hawkeye, personality wise, and his powers were...well...kinda lame. Ability to produce a strange wire like substance that was very durable, and could trap and hold people. I think he was able to hold Warbird for a bit, so I guess that can gauge his power a bit. All he needs is a new costume, and somebody to work with his powers. See what they can add to make him a better character. For the most part, he's a clean slate. Do with him what you will.


i remember Haywire from Kurt Busiek's avengers annual. he was cool and i liked how he pranked Hawkeye. he could work. :)

[Dread]

Some good ideas, Muze.

More on Iron Fist. Anyone who watches anime knows that people who can manipulate "chi" can do some ungodly feats, depending on whatever universe they are in. This is a gold-mine of potential for power that Marvel's sat on. I'm not saying that I want to make Fist into Goku or something, but that his ki/chi could be used for more creative ways than channeling it into his fist or body. It all depends on how it is used.

[venom892]

Iron Fist has always intrested me much like Moon Knight after I found out about him.Anyways I got something to share that's been on my mind for a while which is How I would do sins past.
First off I would leave the first 3 issues the same.Then instead of Gwen just giving it up to norman,What I would is have it that norman was in fact spying on gwen for some time and choosed her as the vessel for his true hier.So when she was checking on harry after his OD Norman offers her a drink which has some sort of mind attering chemical in it which screwed up Gwen's judgement which lend to Gwen having sex with Norman.Norman then Brain washes her into thinking she did it willingly.Then she has the twins 5 months premature and see that gwen is starting to figure out what Norman did to her.This is when she confronts and treatens norman with the police. .{BTW in my version MJ doesn't find out.}Norman fearing that his company would be crippled with such a scandal kindaps her and so the fateful events take place.After that he goes to europe and brainwashes and trains the kids.During this time he planned the clone saga and was going to use the kids as a back up in case the clone saga failed.When Norman returned to europe to get them they were gone.When Norman asked where they were an agent said the stacies took them.Paul,Jill and authur had custody of the kids but never revealed it to anybody.They tried taking they to the finest doctors but nothing stopped their growth.They were with the stacies until one day they recieved a call from norman in which he told them to excute the plan he made up years ago.{This is how Sins past begins.}While Peter is at home he recieves a visit from the stacies who tell him the whole story.Peter is both sadded and enraged.After the stacies leave,Peter goes to the jail cell of norman at the same time that Gabe and sarah are there to break him out.Peter tells The twins the truth.Sarah believes him but gabe doesn't so a battle ensues there in front of norman's cell.Sarah is injured.Norman escapes from his cell and him and gabe double team spidey.When spidey is nearly defeated norman admits his crimes.Norman's confession makes Gabe snap.Norman tells gabe to let his sister die since she was weak like harry.Gabe asks who harry is and norman tells him how pathetic he was and how Gabe is the goblin heir.Gabe is enraged that his whole life was a lie but and attacks his father.Spidey takes advantage and takes sarah to safety.From a distance he sees the struggle and just as he is about to get into the fight gabe snaps norman's neck.Spidey then tries to talk to gabe but gabe cuts him off and tells him he still hates him b/c he didn't save his mother and b/c of norman's hatred for him he was lied to by his father.Gabe tells spidey to wait his death because it was coming at the hands of him soon.Gabe then leaves.Sarah stays with the stacies.Last we see of gabe he is in norman's hideout taking the serum.After that all we hear is laughter.

[Muze]

Some good ideas, Muze.

More on Iron Fist. Anyone who watches anime knows that people who can manipulate "chi" can do some ungodly feats, depending on whatever universe they are in. This is a gold-mine of potential for power that Marvel's sat on. I'm not saying that I want to make Fist into Goku or something, but that his ki/chi could be used for more creative ways than channeling it into his fist or body. It all depends on how it is used.

that's definately true about the chi. i'd like to see more of that from Iron Fist. not goku stuff but a little more than just kung fu; not that he wouldn't occassionally choose just to fight his opponents without his powers. Iron Fist takes his martial arts very seriously, afterall, and would want to stay in practice.

[Anubis]

Iron Fist has always intrested me much like Moon Knight after I found out about him.Anyways I got something to share that's been on my mind for a while which is How I would do sins past.
First off I would leave the first 3 issues the same.Then instead of Gwen just giving it up to norman,What I would is have it that norman was in fact spying on gwen for some time and choosed her as the vessel for his true hier.So when she was checking on harry after his OD Norman offers her a drink which has some sort of mind attering chemical in it which screwed up Gwen's judgement which lend to Gwen having sex with Norman.Norman then Brain washes her into thinking she did it willingly.Then she has the twins 5 months premature and see that gwen is starting to figure out what Norman did to her.This is when she confronts and treatens norman with the police. .{BTW in my version MJ doesn't find out.}Norman fearing that his company would be crippled with such a scandal kindaps her and so the fateful events take place.After that he goes to europe and brainwashes and trains the kids.During this time he planned the clone saga and was going to use the kids as a back up in case the clone saga failed.When Norman returned to europe to get them they were gone.When Norman asked where they were an agent said the stacies took them.Paul,Jill and authur had custody of the kids but never revealed it to anybody.They tried taking they to the finest doctors but nothing stopped their growth.They were with the stacies until one day they recieved a call from norman in which he told them to excute the plan he made up years ago.{This is how Sins past begins.}While Peter is at home he recieves a visit from the stacies who tell him the whole story.Peter is both sadded and enraged.After the stacies leave,Peter goes to the jail cell of norman at the same time that Gabe and sarah are there to break him out.Peter tells The twins the truth.Sarah believes him but gabe doesn't so a battle ensues there in front of norman's cell.Sarah is injured.Norman escapes from his cell and him and gabe double team spidey.When spidey is nearly defeated norman admits his crimes.Norman's confession makes Gabe snap.Norman tells gabe to let his sister die since she was weak like harry.Gabe asks who harry is and norman tells him how pathetic he was and how Gabe is the goblin heir.Gabe is enraged that his whole life was a lie but and attacks his father.Spidey takes advantage and takes sarah to safety.From a distance he sees the struggle and just as he is about to get into the fight gabe snaps norman's neck.Spidey then tries to talk to gabe but gabe cuts him off and tells him he still hates him b/c he didn't save his mother and b/c of norman's hatred for him he was lied to by his father.Gabe tells spidey to wait his death because it was coming at the hands of him soon.Gabe then leaves.Sarah stays with the stacies.Last we see of gabe he is in norman's hideout taking the serum.After that all we hear is laughter.


Not bad. Telling a compeling story, while at the same time, finally moving on with this whole Green Goblin thing. Good job :up:

[Anubis]

Some good ideas, Muze.

More on Iron Fist. Anyone who watches anime knows that people who can manipulate "chi" can do some ungodly feats, depending on whatever universe they are in. This is a gold-mine of potential for power that Marvel's sat on. I'm not saying that I want to make Fist into Goku or something, but that his ki/chi could be used for more creative ways than channeling it into his fist or body. It all depends on how it is used.


Yeah, I could see Rand with more Street Fighter's Ryu, or Tekken's Jin Kazama level of chi control. It's powerful, but he's not destroying planets or anything.

[ThorneFox]

Since Marvel seems to just be sitting on "Thor" right now, rather that doing anything with him, I guess I'd want a shot at reviving him if I ever happened upon the oppurtunity to do so.

For a great part of the series I'll be focusing on Thor's resurrection. The main point I'll be focusing on is enlightenment, and how most of the divinely enlightened people in history have always had to make some great sacrifices and overcome most of their human limitations. So keep that in mind....now..

A man is upset with the way his life has been going. He's given up as he considers himself to be a failure. One week he decides to stay home while his wife and children go on a break to visit some relatives. His excuse is, "I've got some work to do". While they're away he hangs himself somewhere in the woods near their home (they live in a pretty rural area). He dies upon hanging and his body lingers there for 9 days. His family has returned home and so they report him missing.

The authorities eventually find his body just as a freak storm hits. They're preparing to take him down when lightening strikes. The noose severs and he drops to the ground. Now he's been revived, but no one knows it yet, not even him. In an attempt to transport his body they notice something in his hands that wasn't there before....it's Mjolnir. No one can pry it from his hands so they leave it and take him to a morgue to be examined.

In short, it turns out he isn't dead but he's far from what he once was. He returns home and his family must recover from the shock of finding out that he is actually still alive. During this point in time he pretty much completely ignores them and baracades himself in a room with Mjolnir and some chalk. All he does for weeks at a time is draw runic symbols on the wall. He's far beyond where they could've reached him before.

His wife is worried especially after learning that he attempted suicide, and tries to have him institutionalized. This is a big deal, considering Thor and this guy are arguing about whether or not to fight back. Thor convinces the guy to go willingly at first and just escape later because he doesn't want to reveal himself (he's seen what happens when someone's godhood is confirmed).

That's pretty much the direction it's going to go into. Thor will survive through this man and spend the first few issues developing into what he once was. Loki will be involved, but his development will seem smoother than Thor's as he settled into the mortal world while Thor was still sleeping and has regained his power and a faithful group of followers as well. So eventually Loki will come after Mjolnir as usual. I'm going to try and use different villains from other Rogues like Sabretooth and Rhino at first.

There would also be a great contrast between their views. Both as god and man aswell as two different individuals. For instance, Thor likes his beer warm, this guy likes it cold, he probably would back down from a barfight, Thor may not, or vice versa.

Asgard won't be ignored nor will the supporting characters in Thor. I'd just want to focus on Thor and Loki for a while though before I tackle what happened to Asgard and the rest of its inhabitants.

[Muze]

Since Marvel seems to just be sitting on "Thor" right now, rather that doing anything with him, I guess I'd want a shot at reviving him if I ever happened upon the oppurtunity to do so.

For a great part of the series I'll be focusing on Thor's resurrection. The main point I'll be focusing on is enlightenment, and how most of the divinely enlightened people in history have always had to make some great sacrifices and overcome most of their human limitations. So keep that in mind....now..

A man is upset with the way his life has been going. He's given up as he considers himself to be a failure. One week he decides to stay home while his wife and children go on a break to visit some relatives. His excuse is, "I've got some work to do". While they're away he hangs himself somewhere in the woods near their home (they live in a pretty rural area). He dies upon hanging and his body lingers there for 9 days. His family has returned home and so they report him missing.

The authorities eventually find his body just as a freak storm hits. They're preparing to take him down when lightening strikes. The noose severs and he drops to the ground. Now he's been revived, but no one knows it yet, not even him. In an attempt to transport his body they notice something in his hands that wasn't there before....it's Mjolnir. No one can pry it from his hands so they leave it and take him to a morgue to be examined.

In short, it turns out he isn't dead but he's far from what he once was. He returns home and his family must recover from the shock of finding out that he is actually still alive. During this point in time he pretty much completely ignores them and baracades himself in a room with Mjolnir and some chalk. All he does for weeks at a time is draw runic symbols on the wall. He's far beyond where they could've reached him before.

His wife is worried especially after learning that he attempted suicide, and tries to have him institutionalized. This is a big deal, considering Thor and this guy are arguing about whether or not to fight back. Thor convinces the guy to go willingly at first and just escape later because he doesn't want to reveal himself (he's seen what happens when someone's godhood is confirmed).

That's pretty much the direction it's going to go into. Thor will survive through this man and spend the first few issues developing into what he once was. Loki will be involved, but his development will seem smoother than Thor's as he settled into the mortal world while Thor was still sleeping and has regained his power and a faithful group of followers as well. So eventually Loki will come after Mjolnir as usual. I'm going to try and use different villains from other Rogues like Sabretooth and Rhino at first.

There would also be a great contrast between their views. Both as god and man aswell as two different individuals. For instance, Thor likes his beer warm, this guy likes it cold, he probably would back down from a barfight, Thor may not, or vice versa.

Asgard won't be ignored nor will the supporting characters in Thor. I'd just want to focus on Thor and Loki for a while though before I tackle what happened to Asgard and the rest of its inhabitants.

i really like it and would read it. i like this idea of him being 'possesed' by Thor and everyone thinking he's crazy; while he's just trying to figure out what's happened to him. it's like something i might see in an episode of the Outer Limits. so how would you involve Loki?

[Dread]

Yeah, I could see Rand with more Street Fighter's Ryu, or Tekken's Jin Kazama level of chi control. It's powerful, but he's not destroying planets or anything.
Precisely. Plus, it all depends on how he uses his powers. He has "keen eyesight", although nothing superhuman. He has extensive knowledge of martial arts and ergo some anatomy. He can enhance his blows with chi. Now, say, maybe he targets someone's nerves in their arms...

Considering that the Street Fighter comic is selling rather well for a title made outside the "Big Two", it is a shame that Marvel's love of fads hasn't led to some better Iron Fist work. His last series was just so mediocre. He needs either to face opponents that the average fan knows, or just to have a spectacular battle that will give thrills regardless. Preferably both. Iron Fist had none.

Now, the 4-issue Taskmaster series was a good way to do a short story about an underknown person. How did issue #1 start? A fight with Iron Man, someone everyone knows. That'd get your interest in Taskmaster up if you were a casual fan, eh? Plus it had him use his abilites well, had some dynamic art and got into his head a bit. Not bad. Of course, like most small, good Marvel books, they didn't collect it into a trade and didn't hype it, so those who missed the boat have to track it down or wait for someone to post it on Hype again. ;)

And yes, I actually have a fan fiction idea revolving around Mystique and Taskmaster forced to team up in a simple action thriller.

[Muze]

Precisely. Plus, it all depends on how he uses his powers. He has "keen eyesight", although nothing superhuman. He has extensive knowledge of martial arts and ergo some anatomy. He can enhance his blows with chi. Now, say, maybe he targets someone's nerves in their arms...

Considering that the Street Fighter comic is selling rather well for a title made outside the "Big Two", it is a shame that Marvel's love of fads hasn't led to some better Iron Fist work. His last series was just so mediocre. He needs either to face opponents that the average fan knows, or just to have a spectacular battle that will give thrills regardless. Preferably both. Iron Fist had none.

Now, the 4-issue Taskmaster series was a good way to do a short story about an underknown person. How did issue #1 start? A fight with Iron Man, someone everyone knows. That'd get your interest in Taskmaster up if you were a casual fan, eh? Plus it had him use his abilites well, had some dynamic art and got into his head a bit. Not bad. Of course, like most small, good Marvel books, they didn't collect it into a trade and didn't hype it, so those who missed the boat have to track it down or wait for someone to post it on Hype again. ;)

And yes, I actually have a fan fiction idea revolving around Mystique and Taskmaster forced to team up in a simple action thriller.

the Taskmaster's series was perfect. why, Iron Fist couldn't have emulated that; i'm not sure. makes me think that Taskmaster is the one who should have a movie instead of Rand.

[ThorneFox]

i really like it and would read it. i like this idea of him being 'possesed' by Thor and everyone thinking he's crazy; while he's just trying to figure out what's happened to him. it's like something i might see in an episode of the Outer Limits. so how would you involve Loki?

Loki would have a very grim beginning, but I'd like to see him stripped to his core. That means he would've had to have been someone who had no choice in the matter of what they had to overcome and that very person wouldn't have minded letting him take full reign. He represents chaos, so I'd explore that.

Speaking of chaos, he'd be the one to blame for what happened with Wanda. Considering he's the lord of chaos and chaos magick was used in the destruction of the Avengers.

[venom892]

Not bad. Telling a compeling story, while at the same time, finally moving on with this whole Green Goblin thing. Good job :up:Thanks man.They really have to stop with this whole GG nonsense.It's getting out of hand.

[Anubis]

Shoulda never brought him back the first time.

[venom892]

I agree.Now he is in every other sory or related to it.It seems marvel just took upon themselves to tarnish the great story which he died in.

[Anubis]

i just hope that they finally kill of Osbourne. At one point, he was one of the best villians ever, but at this point, he's become a crutch for writers. Everytime you wanna shake things up, have the Goblin do something horribly f*&ked up to Pete. Like, turn Flash into a vegetable, or take his first loves virginity. It's just too much. Kill him now in MK Spider-Man and let the new guy take over as GG.

[Anubis]

Since Marvel seems to just be sitting on "Thor" right now, rather that doing anything with him, I guess I'd want a shot at reviving him if I ever happened upon the oppurtunity to do so.

For a great part of the series I'll be focusing on Thor's resurrection. The main point I'll be focusing on is enlightenment, and how most of the divinely enlightened people in history have always had to make some great sacrifices and overcome most of their human limitations. So keep that in mind....now..

A man is upset with the way his life has been going. He's given up as he considers himself to be a failure. One week he decides to stay home while his wife and children go on a break to visit some relatives. His excuse is, "I've got some work to do". While they're away he hangs himself somewhere in the woods near their home (they live in a pretty rural area). He dies upon hanging and his body lingers there for 9 days. His family has returned home and so they report him missing.

The authorities eventually find his body just as a freak storm hits. They're preparing to take him down when lightening strikes. The noose severs and he drops to the ground. Now he's been revived, but no one knows it yet, not even him. In an attempt to transport his body they notice something in his hands that wasn't there before....it's Mjolnir. No one can pry it from his hands so they leave it and take him to a morgue to be examined.

In short, it turns out he isn't dead but he's far from what he once was. He returns home and his family must recover from the shock of finding out that he is actually still alive. During this point in time he pretty much completely ignores them and baracades himself in a room with Mjolnir and some chalk. All he does for weeks at a time is draw runic symbols on the wall. He's far beyond where they could've reached him before.

His wife is worried especially after learning that he attempted suicide, and tries to have him institutionalized. This is a big deal, considering Thor and this guy are arguing about whether or not to fight back. Thor convinces the guy to go willingly at first and just escape later because he doesn't want to reveal himself (he's seen what happens when someone's godhood is confirmed).

That's pretty much the direction it's going to go into. Thor will survive through this man and spend the first few issues developing into what he once was. Loki will be involved, but his development will seem smoother than Thor's as he settled into the mortal world while Thor was still sleeping and has regained his power and a faithful group of followers as well. So eventually Loki will come after Mjolnir as usual. I'm going to try and use different villains from other Rogues like Sabretooth and Rhino at first.

There would also be a great contrast between their views. Both as god and man aswell as two different individuals. For instance, Thor likes his beer warm, this guy likes it cold, he probably would back down from a barfight, Thor may not, or vice versa.

Asgard won't be ignored nor will the supporting characters in Thor. I'd just want to focus on Thor and Loki for a while though before I tackle what happened to Asgard and the rest of its inhabitants.


I like this take on the character. Having him bonded to an unstable human being might be the one element that Thor Needs. Question: Does he keep the power that he attained towards the end of the book? Because I really liked that Thor. Without the Odin Force, but now fully cognitive of what he actually is and what he can do. Great idea man.

[Anubis]

Precisely. Plus, it all depends on how he uses his powers. He has "keen eyesight", although nothing superhuman. He has extensive knowledge of martial arts and ergo some anatomy. He can enhance his blows with chi. Now, say, maybe he targets someone's nerves in their arms...

Considering that the Street Fighter comic is selling rather well for a title made outside the "Big Two", it is a shame that Marvel's love of fads hasn't led to some better Iron Fist work. His last series was just so mediocre. He needs either to face opponents that the average fan knows, or just to have a spectacular battle that will give thrills regardless. Preferably both. Iron Fist had none.

Now, the 4-issue Taskmaster series was a good way to do a short story about an underknown person. How did issue #1 start? A fight with Iron Man, someone everyone knows. That'd get your interest in Taskmaster up if you were a casual fan, eh? Plus it had him use his abilites well, had some dynamic art and got into his head a bit. Not bad. Of course, like most small, good Marvel books, they didn't collect it into a trade and didn't hype it, so those who missed the boat have to track it down or wait for someone to post it on Hype again. ;)

And yes, I actually have a fan fiction idea revolving around Mystique and Taskmaster forced to team up in a simple action thriller.

With the use of multiple styles of martial arts, and more potent use of his chi attacks, as well as a few wins over established heavy weights, (or popular characters) And thats all the Fist needs to become a breakout character. Why the hell is it nobody thought of this before?

[venom892]

I always thought Iron fist had to have a rematch with Sabertooth and wipe the floor with him.Seeing as he was kicking Sabertooth's ass before Wovie ever lay eyes on him.Also I wouldn't mind Fist going up against the hand.

[ThorneFox]

I like this take on the character. Having him bonded to an unstable human being might be the one element that Thor Needs. Question: Does he keep the power that he attained towards the end of the book? Because I really liked that Thor. Without the Odin Force, but now fully cognitive of what he actually is and what he can do. Great idea man.

Thanks Anubis. As I probably said before (or forgot to say) Thor would have to work his way up to what he was when Ragnarok occurred. I'd most likely have him greatly powered down due to his host's own human inhibitions. A god's power is measured by the faith of his people. If the one person who truly matters doesn't believe in his power, what then?

So there should be a process of spiritual growth for this guy. May even make him an atheist....just because.

[DBM]

This is long but bear with it.

Let me start out by saying that I like Thor but I’m not a huge fan. Out of over 14,000 comics I own, maybe 100 are Thor comics. I know him more from his time in the Avengers than anything else. That being said, I think I have a good grasp of the character and the world he populates but I don’t claim to be an expert. So some ideas that I say are “new” might really not be, it may just be I’ve never read them. Not that it matters or anything since this is a restart.

Here’s what I suggest as a “restart” to Thor.

This is possibly the best comic for a nearly complete restart. Plain and simple. The world was destroyed and has to be rebuilt. So some changes are to be expected and in this case would be acceptable (I think).

My main goal was to integrate real world Norse Myth with the history from the comics. Change the settings and histories a bit but still pay close attention to what has come before. I also want the stories to follow the myths some more. Many of the stories would parallel the ancient myths with out actually following them exactly. Also, I want to give respect to the history that is already established in Marvel's Thor. I'm not saying everything else didn't happen, I'm just saying everything from now on will be different and new. All the previous stories happened, but since everyone will be reborn, their histories will affect them differently.

Some of the main things I want to do are:

1) Keep the stories away from Earth. While Thor obviously will go to Earth at some point, I’ve always enjoyed his adventures in Asgard the most.
2) Bring back Odin and the dead Asgardians. This is the perfect point to bring them back because its expected and acceptable.
3) With Odin back, knock Thor back down a level. I enjoyed King Thor but I enjoyed him as simply Thor better.

So here goes my idea.

Title

I’m going to suggest returning to the title, Journey into Mystery (unfortunately Volume 3 since Marvel is a restart-whore) for several reasons.

First, this allows the title to expand beyond being Thor-centric. While Thor will still be the main character, the rich tapestry that is the Asgardian world can be explored without ignoring a “title” character. The Asgardian dimension is called The Nine Worlds for a reason. THERE ARE NINE ENTIRE WORLDS. Mostly in the past, the only exploration was in two of the worlds, Asgard and Midgard, with the occasional foray into Muspelheim or Jotunheim. Entire races live in the other worlds of the Asgardian Dimension that have barely been heard from. Having said all of that, the focus will always be on the Asgardians themselves, and specifically Thor, but we will see the other worlds through the eyes of the Asgardians.

Second, the word “Journey” in the title tells us the path the stories will follow. We’ll be on a voyage of learning. As the Asgardian Dimension is recreated, things will be slightly different, characters will have to relearn things, relationships will be reestablished or left behind, new people will be introduced, new conflicts discovered. The readers will be coming along with the characters on a journey of discover and creation, being a witness as The Nine Worlds are set into motion again.

Third, the word “Mystery” tells what the stories are about. But to understand it you have to look past the common usage of the word “mystery.” Mystery has come to mean a story that needs to be solved or a secret that only a few know but it means so much more than that. Mystery in it’s more traditional sense speaks of religion and secret sects, methods of worship, mysticism, and ways of life unknown to the world at large. Mystery literal means in this case an unknown place, a place where magic happens, a place where the common man is astounded and can’t fully understand. A place where a person can change his shape (Loki), where another calls lightning from the sky (Thor), where another knows you are coming when your first step is taken (Heimdall), where a one-eyed man sees all (Odin). A world whose inhabitants were objects of worship for hundreds of years and may again become that hundreds of years from now.

Fourth, and possibly the one that holds up the least, this is a new beginning for characters and worlds that have been firmly established for decades. Harkening back to their beginning only seems fitting when we are again building the world from the ground up.

Themes

Obviously, as stated in the Title section, two of the themes are going to be The Journey, and The Mystery. Two other themes round out the basis for the stories; The Duality and The Conflict.

We’ll look at the Duality of Thor as God and man. I’ve always thought Thor worked best as a “man of two worlds.” The two sides of Thor, god and man, were what set him apart from many other heroes and what set him apart from his fellow Asgardians. This dichotomy of character is so important to him that it became a major focus of his storylines as we came to the end of his most recent series. Only Thor could stop the cycle of death and rebirth because of his dual nature. Odin had set out a plan that he knew only his son could complete, with nothing but the hope that Thor would realize his true potential. I see Thor as the beloved son of the king, but also a bit of an outsider because much of his life is grounded away from Asgard. But Thor’s character is not the only example of The Duality that will be part of the stories.

We’ll look at the dual nature of Loki, god and giant, which I think has never been played to its full potential and how it contrasts with Thor’s duality as god and man. Thor’s humanity has always been a driving force behind his character and personality but Loki has no humanity. He is not a son of Gaea as Thor is. He is entirely foreign to Earth and to Asgard. A Giant by nature, a god by nurture. Remembering that Odin adopted Loki, the fact that Loki is the heir to the giants throne, as well as second in line for the throne of the Asgardians should be addressed. An interesting point would also be how Odin views his adopted son. Because we need to remember that Odin himself is the son of giants who became a god.

Another area to be explored is Odin’s duality as All-Father and father. How can one rule a world and still live in his household. This story is old as time, the stories of fathers and sons and the things that keep them apart and bring them together. Mirrored in a hundred other tales, real and fictional, of Kings and their children.

With The Duality comes, of course, The Conflict. Conflict is the driving force behind almost all stories. Whether it be on a personal level in relationships or on a grand scale in battles, conflict is what takes a character from one point to another. How will they react to it? Will they overcome it? How will the be changed by it?

Conflict as it takes form in Journey into Mystery will come on all levels. Traditional conflicts between Loki and Thor will be evident as will conflict between the Giants and the Gods. Personal conflicts will arise as characters reestablish themselves and relationships reform or split apart. And a new conflict will be created that will be a driving force within many stories. The conflict between the Aesir and the Vanir.

The Aesir are the race we commonly refer to as the Asgardians. These are Odin and Thor’s people, including Balder, Heimdall, Sif, etc. The Vanir are another race, similar to the Aesir, dwelling in the same world of Asgard. From my experience, all of the peoples of Asgard have been grouped into one category within the comics (though I could be off here because I’ve read only about a hundred Thor comics). Traditional Norse myth separates the two and speaks of them battling for many years until a truce is reached between the two peoples. Establishing the Vanir as a competing people adds another layer of conflict to the mix, creating multiple fronts which Odin and his people must fight on. But the battles with the Vanir will not necessarily be the same as the conflicts with Giants. The Vanir are the same as the Aesir essentially. Think of them more as a rival political faction, a nation seeking to take over, working from the inside and out to sway the Aesir to their cause. While the Vanir and Aesir share a border they are not in direct warfare with each other but rather are fighting a psychological, ideological war.

Most of the “heroic” characters that we know of , Odin, Thor, Balder, Heimdall, etc., will be part of the Aesir. The Vanir will consist of some established characters, Frey, Sigyn, Freya, Agnar, and some new characters.

Stories

I see the stories taking place in 3 issue story arcs because I feel three issues is about the longest a story needs to go on and Marvel would still be able to produce it as a trade by collecting to arcs at a time.

The first year of story arcs would be named:

1. Mystery and Monsters
The first arc, as an homage to the “original” premises of Journey into Mystery, will focus on mystery and monsters. It would lead us from shortly after Disassembled up to the recreation of the Nine Worlds. It would very closely mirror the Norse creation myth using metaphor, misdirection and modern parallels. Expect a lot of hidden meanings and multiple levels of understanding.

2. Resurrection and Rebirth
The second arc begins with the reestablishment of the Nine Worlds (eight technically since Midgard never left). It would set up our basic history and ongoing stories, introduce the major cast (Thor, Loki, Odin, etc.). The first World to be created would be Asgard and the story arc would be told through the eyes of an Asgardian (probably Thor) as he rediscovers his place in it all. I’d also like to see a detailed map of the worlds in this arc, similar to what could be found in the old Official Handbooks.

3. Kings and Kingdoms
The third arc takes us through the two large conflicts that will always be going on; Aesir vs. Giants and Aesir vs. Vanir. We’ll look at the battles and conflicts through the eyes of the kings of these three kingdoms, Aesir – Odin, Vanir – Frey, Giants – Utgard-loki. This arc would be especially Thor-centric because Odin, the All-Seeing, does not usually take an active hand in the politics and war. He’s much more likely to send Thor and his warriors where needed and make sure all the pieces in place. Utgard-loki revels in battle and leads from the front lines. He wants to see his enemies die and take an active role. Frey, king of the Vanir, is much more subtle. He likes to use assassinations, politics, and espionage to accomplish his goals.

4. Midgard and Marvels
The fourth arc is the one everyone’s been waiting for, Thor returns to Earth. A crisis has arisen requiring Thor to return to Earth and take an active role. It would deal with the strain Thor’s absence has caused, Thor grieving over lost friends he hadn’t known were gone, trying to reconnect with those he loves and above all, some knock-down, drag-out, old-school super heroics and fighting.

I’ve actually got most of the first issue written, in comic script form, and have plotted the entire first year. That’s why I didn’t give more info on the stories, I plan on writing them out. I’ll probably have the first issue written in the next couple days. I’ll post it when I do.

So.

That’s my pitch. I’m guessing if you made it this far you liked the idea. What do you think?

[iloveclones]

[silently mouths] wow [/silently mouths]

[DBM]

[silently mouths] wow [/silently mouths]

Thanks. :D

[roach]

while writing my Captain America story i stumbled across a story for Moon Knight. I remembered reading the forword to Batman Knightfall. They normally do a meeting of all the Batwriters and go over storylines.Almost everytime they do one of these someone would suggest getting rid of Bruce Wayne. So Knightfall came out of an editors explaination of why Bruce should still be Batman. I thought if I could tell a story that would be a fanletter/loveletter to Moon Knight. Make him cool again to everyone. The story is called Phases and each individual chapter will be named after a moon phase. Basicly during Moon Knight gets hurt on a mission and Marlene gives him an ultimatum...MK or her. Spector travels to egypt and meets with the Priests of Khonshu and they tell him that in order to quit being MK he has to choose and train his successor. Spector returns and finds 23 year old Isaiah Vaughn who is wrongly accused of murder. Spector helps him beat the charges and takes him in as his trainee. After several months of training the Priests of Khonshu hold a ceremony where Khonshu's favor moves from Spector to Vaughn. Spector goes and marries Marlene and then rides off into the sun. Vaughn takes over and makes several rookie mistakes until he meets with 'Jake Lockley' who tells Vaughn he can make him a better fighter than what Spector. After several attempts Vaughn accepts and 'Lockley' introduces him to the god Set. Vaughn accepts Set and becomes the Fist of Set. In the mystical world Set kills Khonshu. As the Fist of Set Vaughn begins to destroy everything that has to do with MK. He murders the Priests and then attacks Spector. With his new found powers and Spector's lack of powers Vaughn brutally beats Spector. The fight ends with Spector being decapitated. Vaughn brings the head to 'Lockley' who is revealed to be Bushman. In the land of the dead Khonshu uses his last bit of life to return Spector to life and grant him some new abilities. A shadow snatches Spectors head as Spector appears in Grant Mansion in his Mk suit smoldering. A year has passed and Bushman and the Fist of Set have taken over the L.A. crime scene.MK declares war on them......this is as far as I got with it though.

[ThorneFox]

This is long but bear with it.

Let me start out by saying that I like Thor but I’m not a huge fan. Out of over 14,000 comics I own, maybe 100 are Thor comics. I know him more from his time in the Avengers than anything else. That being said, I think I have a good grasp of the character and the world he populates but I don’t claim to be an expert. So some ideas that I say are “new” might really not be, it may just be I’ve never read them. Not that it matters or anything since this is a restart.

Here’s what I suggest as a “restart” to Thor.

This is possibly the best comic for a nearly complete restart. Plain and simple. The world was destroyed and has to be rebuilt. So some changes are to be expected and in this case would be acceptable (I think).

My main goal was to integrate real world Norse Myth with the history from the comics. Change the settings and histories a bit but still pay close attention to what has come before. I also want the stories to follow the myths some more. Many of the stories would parallel the ancient myths with out actually following them exactly. Also, I want to give respect to the history that is already established in Marvel's Thor. I'm not saying everything else didn't happen, I'm just saying everything from now on will be different and new. All the previous stories happened, but since everyone will be reborn, their histories will affect them differently.

Some of the main things I want to do are:

1) Keep the stories away from Earth. While Thor obviously will go to Earth at some point, I’ve always enjoyed his adventures in Asgard the most.
2) Bring back Odin and the dead Asgardians. This is the perfect point to bring them back because its expected and acceptable.
3) With Odin back, knock Thor back down a level. I enjoyed King Thor but I enjoyed him as simply Thor better.

So here goes my idea.

Title

I’m going to suggest returning to the title, Journey into Mystery (unfortunately Volume 3 since Marvel is a restart-whore) for several reasons.

First, this allows the title to expand beyond being Thor-centric. While Thor will still be the main character, the rich tapestry that is the Asgardian world can be explored without ignoring a “title” character. The Asgardian dimension is called The Nine Worlds for a reason. THERE ARE NINE ENTIRE WORLDS. Mostly in the past, the only exploration was in two of the worlds, Asgard and Midgard, with the occasional foray into Muspelheim or Jotunheim. Entire races live in the other worlds of the Asgardian Dimension that have barely been heard from. Having said all of that, the focus will always be on the Asgardians themselves, and specifically Thor, but we will see the other worlds through the eyes of the Asgardians.

Second, the word “Journey” in the title tells us the path the stories will follow. We’ll be on a voyage of learning. As the Asgardian Dimension is recreated, things will be slightly different, characters will have to relearn things, relationships will be reestablished or left behind, new people will be introduced, new conflicts discovered. The readers will be coming along with the characters on a journey of discover and creation, being a witness as The Nine Worlds are set into motion again.

Third, the word “Mystery” tells what the stories are about. But to understand it you have to look past the common usage of the word “mystery.” Mystery has come to mean a story that needs to be solved or a secret that only a few know but it means so much more than that. Mystery in it’s more traditional sense speaks of religion and secret sects, methods of worship, mysticism, and ways of life unknown to the world at large. Mystery literal means in this case an unknown place, a place where magic happens, a place where the common man is astounded and can’t fully understand. A place where a person can change his shape (Loki), where another calls lightning from the sky (Thor), where another knows you are coming when your first step is taken (Heimdall), where a one-eyed man sees all (Odin). A world whose inhabitants were objects of worship for hundreds of years and may again become that hundreds of years from now.

Fourth, and possibly the one that holds up the least, this is a new beginning for characters and worlds that have been firmly established for decades. Harkening back to their beginning only seems fitting when we are again building the world from the ground up.

Themes

Obviously, as stated in the Title section, two of the themes are going to be The Journey, and The Mystery. Two other themes round out the basis for the stories; The Duality and The Conflict.

We’ll look at the Duality of Thor as God and man. I’ve always thought Thor worked best as a “man of two worlds.” The two sides of Thor, god and man, were what set him apart from many other heroes and what set him apart from his fellow Asgardians. This dichotomy of character is so important to him that it became a major focus of his storylines as we came to the end of his most recent series. Only Thor could stop the cycle of death and rebirth because of his dual nature. Odin had set out a plan that he knew only his son could complete, with nothing but the hope that Thor would realize his true potential. I see Thor as the beloved son of the king, but also a bit of an outsider because much of his life is grounded away from Asgard. But Thor’s character is not the only example of The Duality that will be part of the stories.

We’ll look at the dual nature of Loki, god and giant, which I think has never been played to its full potential and how it contrasts with Thor’s duality as god and man. Thor’s humanity has always been a driving force behind his character and personality but Loki has no humanity. He is not a son of Gaea as Thor is. He is entirely foreign to Earth and to Asgard. A Giant by nature, a god by nurture. Remembering that Odin adopted Loki, the fact that Loki is the heir to the giants throne, as well as second in line for the throne of the Asgardians should be addressed. An interesting point would also be how Odin views his adopted son. Because we need to remember that Odin himself is the son of giants who became a god.

Another area to be explored is Odin’s duality as All-Father and father. How can one rule a world and still live in his household. This story is old as time, the stories of fathers and sons and the things that keep them apart and bring them together. Mirrored in a hundred other tales, real and fictional, of Kings and their children.

With The Duality comes, of course, The Conflict. Conflict is the driving force behind almost all stories. Whether it be on a personal level in relationships or on a grand scale in battles, conflict is what takes a character from one point to another. How will they react to it? Will they overcome it? How will the be changed by it?

Conflict as it takes form in Journey into Mystery will come on all levels. Traditional conflicts between Loki and Thor will be evident as will conflict between the Giants and the Gods. Personal conflicts will arise as characters reestablish themselves and relationships reform or split apart. And a new conflict will be created that will be a driving force within many stories. The conflict between the Aesir and the Vanir.

The Aesir are the race we commonly refer to as the Asgardians. These are Odin and Thor’s people, including Balder, Heimdall, Sif, etc. The Vanir are another race, similar to the Aesir, dwelling in the same world of Asgard. From my experience, all of the peoples of Asgard have been grouped into one category within the comics (though I could be off here because I’ve read only about a hundred Thor comics). Traditional Norse myth separates the two and speaks of them battling for many years until a truce is reached between the two peoples. Establishing the Vanir as a competing people adds another layer of conflict to the mix, creating multiple fronts which Odin and his people must fight on. But the battles with the Vanir will not necessarily be the same as the conflicts with Giants. The Vanir are the same as the Aesir essentially. Think of them more as a rival political faction, a nation seeking to take over, working from the inside and out to sway the Aesir to their cause. While the Vanir and Aesir share a border they are not in direct warfare with each other but rather are fighting a psychological, ideological war.

Most of the “heroic” characters that we know of , Odin, Thor, Balder, Heimdall, etc., will be part of the Aesir. The Vanir will consist of some established characters, Frey, Sigyn, Freya, Agnar, and some new characters.

Stories

I see the stories taking place in 3 issue story arcs because I feel three issues is about the longest a story needs to go on and Marvel would still be able to produce it as a trade by collecting to arcs at a time.

The first year of story arcs would be named:

1. Mystery and Monsters
The first arc, as an homage to the “original” premises of Journey into Mystery, will focus on mystery and monsters. It would lead us from shortly after Disassembled up to the recreation of the Nine Worlds. It would very closely mirror the Norse creation myth using metaphor, misdirection and modern parallels. Expect a lot of hidden meanings and multiple levels of understanding.

2. Resurrection and Rebirth
The second arc begins with the reestablishment of the Nine Worlds (eight technically since Midgard never left). It would set up our basic history and ongoing stories, introduce the major cast (Thor, Loki, Odin, etc.). The first World to be created would be Asgard and the story arc would be told through the eyes of an Asgardian (probably Thor) as he rediscovers his place in it all. I’d also like to see a detailed map of the worlds in this arc, similar to what could be found in the old Official Handbooks.

3. Kings and Kingdoms
The third arc takes us through the two large conflicts that will always be going on; Aesir vs. Giants and Aesir vs. Vanir. We’ll look at the battles and conflicts through the eyes of the kings of these three kingdoms, Aesir – Odin, Vanir – Frey, Giants – Utgard-loki. This arc would be especially Thor-centric because Odin, the All-Seeing, does not usually take an active hand in the politics and war. He’s much more likely to send Thor and his warriors where needed and make sure all the pieces in place. Utgard-loki revels in battle and leads from the front lines. He wants to see his enemies die and take an active role. Frey, king of the Vanir, is much more subtle. He likes to use assassinations, politics, and espionage to accomplish his goals.

4. Midgard and Marvels
The fourth arc is the one everyone’s been waiting for, Thor returns to Earth. A crisis has arisen requiring Thor to return to Earth and take an active role. It would deal with the strain Thor’s absence has caused, Thor grieving over lost friends he hadn’t known were gone, trying to reconnect with those he loves and above all, some knock-down, drag-out, old-school super heroics and fighting.

I’ve actually got most of the first issue written, in comic script form, and have plotted the entire first year. That’s why I didn’t give more info on the stories, I plan on writing them out. I’ll probably have the first issue written in the next couple days. I’ll post it when I do.

So.

That’s my pitch. I’m guessing if you made it this far you liked the idea. What do you think?


That sounds great man and very original I think. Good luck with that, hopefully you can pitch it to Marvel before they go on and restart the title without you.

[Anubis]

I don't even know what to say....Cool? Awsome? Fantastic? F**king incredible?!?!

I would really like to say thank you, to everybody that has posted something so far. You guys have taken this thread that was started on the whim of a druken fanboys suger rush, and turned it into something truely great. Why the hell aren't you guys writing comics? Tell me? Oh man, thumbs up man. Thumbs up all around. :up:

[DBM]

That sounds great man and very original I think. Good luck with that, hopefully you can pitch it to Marvel before they go on and restart the title without you.

Thanks. Marvel should hurry up and hire me. Just wait until I get the first story arc written. It's pretty sweet.



You might want to edit out the quote of my post. My post was really long so when you add the quote in, it takes up a lot of space.

[roach]

yeah we need to hurry up and get discovered....give a break to the four writers writing everything...lol

[Roughneck]

Draco:

First things first, I wouldn't have made it a big deal that Mystique was Nightcrawlers Mother, cause everybody already knew that anyway. It's not a secret. Kurt's dad wouln't have lived in another dimension, he wold have just been a Devil looking guy whoo led a cult of devil worshipers. Abyss couls have remained the brother. I also would have lost the whole angle with all the other Angels and Demons. And no way would Bobby have lived without a body and made a new one from the moisture in the others bodies. And Some one else would have done the art.

But the Juggernaut/Northstar side story in Draco was great.

[roach]

One if I was writing the X-men I wouldnt write an origin story or try to fix mistakes a past writer made. Nightcrawler had a pretty basic origin...now it's a mess. I would cut down the titles. There is no need for three X-men books about the same team...make no mistake about it they are all the same team. If Marvel is adamant about three X-men books each would be drasticly different from the other. One book would the law enforcement team...an other would be the basic x-team and the other would be the X-corp team led by Banshee. Each team would have a different HQ and Logan would only be on one team...Period. Death would not happen because of a whim. If someone was to be written out of a series then I'd have something happen to them...lose powers, become paralysed, decide to have a normal life. Magneto cant be the only mutant who thinks killing humans will be a good thing. There should be other demogogues who spout mutant supremecy. I'd like to see mutant culture explored and I'd have Professor Xavier's storyline come to it's tragic and realistic end.

[TheCorpulent1]

DBM: I like it. The Vanir were already established in Marvel's continuity but nothing much was ever said about them. Agnar, a dude who wanted to kill Balder but eventually became his friend during the Simonson run, was a Vanir.

I think an interesting change might be to allow Thor to keep his memories of the previous Asgard and all of his prior life. It would serve to further separate him from the other gods and make him a bit more tragic.

I like King Thor but I guess bumping him back down would make sense. He's still supposed to be second only to Odin in power among all the beings in Asgard though, so as long as he's actually written well and uses all of the powers at his disposal instead of being portrayed as the chump he was written as more and more as time went on, it would be cool.

I particularly liked the emphasis you put on expanding the scope beyond Thor. Asgard is so rich with potential, from supporting cast members to fantastic locations that a good artist could really impress with, that it's sad it hasn't been exploited as much as it could have been. Few people have really done anything new with the Asgardians since Stan Lee first introduced them in their Marvel incarnations. When's the last time you read a good, fun story with the Warriors Three or Balder or Sif? More of that would be excellent.

I'd also like to see Odin kept a bit more aloof for the most part. Put him up on Hlidskjalf, shrouded in shadow with Hugin and Munin fluttering around and landing on his shoulders. It would make him seem as all-powerful as the Asgardians claim him to be and it would emphasize that duality between All-Father and father when he has those touching scenes with Thor and Loki.

[DBM]

DBM: I like it. The Vanir were already established in Marvel's continuity but nothing much was ever said about them. Agnar, a dude who wanted to kill Balder but eventually became his friend during the Simonson run, was a Vanir.


I knew some of the Vanir had been around, I just wasn't sure how much. I started downloading the full run of Thor comics last night. Once I read throught them I'll probably flesh out the idea some.

Glad you like it though. :)

[iloveclones]

3. Kings and Kingdoms
The third arc takes us through the two large conflicts that will always be going on; Aesir vs. Giants and Aesir vs. Vanir. We’ll look at the battles and conflicts through the eyes of the kings of these three kingdoms, Aesir – Odin, Vanir – Frey, Giants – Utgard-loki. This arc would be especially Thor-centric because Odin, the All-Seeing, does not usually take an active hand in the politics and war. He’s much more likely to send Thor and his warriors where needed and make sure all the pieces in place. Utgard-loki revels in battle and leads from the front lines. He wants to see his enemies die and take an active role. Frey, king of the Vanir, is much more subtle. He likes to use assassinations, politics, and espionage to accomplish his goals.


I've never been big into Thor, either. But this is the part of your idea that I really like. I always like when a title is able to explore other worlds (FF during Byrne's run, Silver Surfer-not the recent one). And I love that they would interact with one another (politics). And every one of those worlds would have it's own heroes and villains.

[Gambit8370]

RE: DBM's Thor proposal.

You know, when Marvel decided to end the legendary 40+ year tale of Thor, they tried to do it in a way that completely decimated and rendered moot every single Thor story ever writtin within the Marvel continuity. Priming the pump and cleaning the slate for a complete restart. I won't turn this into a rant about that as it really did piss me off to no end because this post isn't about that. But the thing that I cannot and will not ignore is how Thor, the sheer presence of Thor, the Asgardian magics and incantations and the like has affected the other characters in the Marvel universe.

A complete restart is what Marvel wants. Well DBMs extremely well written and thought out tales would do just fine to do this, but... there are to many loose ends left over from the ending of the prior Thor series to allow this to simply be a crisp and clean restart.

There are many more remnants of the presence and power of the Asgardians other than just Beta Ray Bill. The Wrecker and the Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, and many many other Marvel villains and even Marvel heroes are a direct result of the existance and the power of the Norse gods. And not that DBM in his sheer awesomeness of storytelling wouldn't eventually address this issue. But it's happening right now. The Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, et all are out there in normal Marvel continuity, in other comic titles currenly being printed and published as we speak, operating as they always have.

If the Ragnarok cycle has truly been broken, and the legend of the Norse gods of Asgard has truly ended, then the lives of all characters, mortals/heroes/villains/other that have been affected by them over the years should be vastly changed too.

So DBM, I do praise and commend your creativity and effort. I wish that Marvel would hire you and more guys like you who have passion in the care that they would handle the Marvel creative properties.

It's a damn shame that they (Marvel) let things get to this point, but I think of all the proposals and ideas I've heard so far, or all the creative minds that I would trust this character with (a list including Gaimen, Millar, and others)...

DBM, I would trust YOU before I would trust ANYONE ELSE, in or out of the industry, to do a good job and to respect the characters, the legend, and most importantly, the fans.

You and I have goofed on each other a lot over the last couple of years, but time and again you have earned my utmost respect and friendship (although we have not ever met). I wish you well in your ambition to become a Marvel writer. I share that very same ambition fueled by that passion that we have for these characters. But I think you deserve a real shot at it much much more than I do.

And people say I don't know how to say anything nice...:rolleyes:

[Anubis]

I gotta tell you, that still came off as a bit condesending. ;) :D

[Gambit8370]

Of course it did.

I can't say anything without coming off like a big jerk.

[DBM]

but... there are to many loose ends left over from the ending of the prior Thor series to allow this to simply be a crisp and clean restart.
Don't think of them as loose ends. Think of them as future plot points. :D
DBM, I would trust YOU before I would trust ANYONE ELSE, in or out of the industry, to do a good job and to respect the characters, the legend, and most importantly, the fans.

You and I have goofed on each other a lot over the last couple of years, but time and again you have earned my utmost respect and friendship (although we have not ever met). I wish you well in your ambition to become a Marvel writer. I share that very same ambition fueled by that passion that we have for these characters. But I think you deserve a real shot at it much much more than I do.

And people say I don't know how to say anything nice...:rolleyes:

Awwww. I actually teared up a little there. Thanks for the kind words.

Though Anubis is right, everything you write has that sarcastic tone in my head even though I know you mean it.

[newnoiseimage]

good job.

try and guess my tone.

[Gambit8370]

Though Anubis is right, everything you write has that sarcastic tone in my head even though I know you mean it.
I'm sorry.

If there was any sarcasm or condescention whatsoever in that post it wasn't meant to be directed at you.

[iloveclones]

I knew it! It was directed at me. >sniff<

[DBM]

I'm sorry.

If there was any sarcasm or condescention whatsoever in that post it wasn't meant to be directed at you.

I know. It's just a habit.

"oh, Gambit8370 posted something, it must be sarcastic" :D

I knew it! It was directed at me. >sniff<
Well, you deserve it. :mad:

[Gambit8370]

(hand over face, shakes head)

Why me?

[ThorneFox]

I think it's because people think you're vulnerable after Hawkeye's death.........

...come on people leave the poor man alone.

[roach]

Gambit8370 just needs a hug

[Gambit8370]

I think it's because people think you're vulnerable after Hawkeye's death.........
No it's not that.

Hawkeye's poorly written and mischaracterized death only served to strengthen my resolve and my fortify my principles.

[Gambit8370]

Gambit8370 just needs a hug
All of the sudden why do feel like Jack at the testicular cancer meeting in Fight Club?

"Meet Bob.

Bob had b***h t**s."

[roach]

are you trying to open up a hype fight club????????

[Anubis]

LoL b***h ti*s. :D

[Gambit8370]

are you trying to open up a hype fight club????????
I'm sorry. I can't talk about it.

[ThorneFox]

I wonder who our Marla Synger would be..........

[Anubis]

I think I'm gonna try and see what I can do with US Agent. I had a few ideas and I really need to mull them over a bit. After reading about Zoken's idea for a female (MC2) Cap, it's really gotten me to thinking about a chick taking over as the New US Agent.

[danielisthor]

DBM: I like it. The Vanir were already established in Marvel's continuity but nothing much was ever said about them. Agnar, a dude who wanted to kill Balder but eventually became his friend during the Simonson run, was a Vanir.

I think an interesting change might be to allow Thor to keep his memories of the previous Asgard and all of his prior life. It would serve to further separate him from the other gods and make him a bit more tragic.



The most glaring issue with the Vanir is that not much is really know about them as far as Norse Mythology goes. They appear in early scripts, not much really being said about who is who and in time, they were non-existant. So anything written about them, would become new cannon.

I like that idea as well. It would be difficult for Thor to sit beside Balder, Sif, the Warrior's Three, etc, etc. and know that in the end he killed them, even if it was for the betterment of all.

Bring back the Executioner and use Thor's older brother Tyr, the Norse God of War more than he ever was used.

One other thing, I would like to see more conflict or interaction with the other God's.

[DBM]

The most glaring issue with the Vanir is that not much is really know about them as far as Norse Mythology goes. They appear in early scripts, not much really being said about who is who and in time, they were non-existant. So anything written about them, would become new cannon.

To me, that's the biggest plus about the Vanir. In the myths, at least that I've read, all we know is a few of their names, that they are basically the same as the Aesir, and that they fought the Aesir. This leaves everything about them open to be used.

[roach]

to hell with Marvel we should launch our own comic book compnay with our own ideas

[ThorneFox]

You have a good point roach, a very good point.

We could keep Thor for DBM because he's in the public domain (Thor is rather), and then I could still do my werwolf stories, just without using Jack Russel......everyone here seems to be good enough to develop characters and stories all on their own without taking too much from other people's work.

How do you start up a comicbook publishing company any way?

[roach]

exactly..even Image had a Thor
...i guess we promote heavily in Wizard

[Dread]

With the use of multiple styles of martial arts, and more potent use of his chi attacks, as well as a few wins over established heavy weights, (or popular characters) And thats all the Fist needs to become a breakout character. Why the hell is it nobody thought of this before?
Because the only imagination that is usually focused at Marvel is in key properties or writer-vehicles. Sometimes these are good and sometimes bad. Honestly there are much harder characters to rejuvenize than Iron Fist, which is the tragedy. I'd say Moon Knight is a bit harder.

True, Iron Fist may be a movie, but as it is in production hell, it is not on the horizon.

DBM, good idea on Thor, btw. But I don't see Marvel doing well with fantasy yarns without being able to use street-slang, leather jackets, and crossovers. Which is exactly why your idea works. It is unique.

[TheCorpulent1]

To me, that's the biggest plus about the Vanir. In the myths, at least that I've read, all we know is a few of their names, that they are basically the same as the Aesir, and that they fought the Aesir. This leaves everything about them open to be used.
We also know that they deal more with the earth while the Aesir tend to deal with the air and more ethereal concepts. Odin's the skyfather, Thor's the god of storms, Loki's the god of an abstract concept, etc. Frey was the god of fertility, I think, and the other Vanir had more of an earth-based focus as well. A conflict could potentially be wrung out of that.

[danielisthor]

In Norse myth, the Vanir are originally a group of wild nature and fertility gods and goddesses, the sworn enemies of the warrior gods of the Aesir. They were considered to be the bringers of health, youth, fertility, luck and wealth, and masters of magic. The Vanir live in Vanaheim.

The Aesir and the Vanir had been at war for a long time when they decided to make peace. To ensure this peace they traded hostages: the Vanir sent their most renowned gods, the wealthy Njord and his children Freya and Freyr. In exchange the Aesir sent Honir, a big, handsome man who they claimed was suited to rule. He was accompanied by Mimir, the wisest man of the Aesir and in return the Vanir sent their wisest man Kvasir.

Honir however, was not as smart as the Aesir claimed he was and it Mimir who gave him advice. The Vanir grew suspicious of the answers Honir gave when Mimir was not around. Eventually they figured out that they had been cheated and they cut Mimir's head off and sent it back to the Aesir. Fortunately, this betrayal did not lead to another war and all the gods of the Vanir were subsequently integrated with the Aesir. There is not much known about the Vanir of the time before the assimilation.

The name "Vanir" might be derived from the old-Norse word vinr which means "friend".





Article details
N/A

Article created on 03 March 1997; last modified on 27 December 1998.

[Anubis]

O.K, so, my idea for a new US Agent. Her name is Elizabeth (Liz) Marshall and she will be apart of a new Faction within the US government. One that is sick of Super heroes and government officials who sympathize with them. Particularly S.H.I.E.L.D. and Nick Fury. She is a highly trained soldier, who has been apart of some very secret covert ops missions with both Delta Force and S.H.I.E.L.D. She was recruited by this secret organization for her skills and willingness to get the job done. She never asks questions, she does what she’s told, and she kind of enjoys it. Liz has no close family to speak of. All she has is a younger sister who she hasn’t seen or heard from within the last 10 years. She prefers to work, rather than try to live civilian life. First, her body needs to be “upgraded” for the role. She is infused with a new experimental super soldier serum, which gives her enhanced strength. (2 tons), agility, speed, and endurance. The problem with it is that her body tends to over heat and this can cause her circulatory system to shut down. She needs an average of 20 hours a week in stasis. She also is prone to strange visions. Seeming flashbacks to things she doesn’t remember actually happening. Having a husband and a daughter. Birthday parties. A fire. She doesn’t know what they mean,. She has also been implanted with a number of hardware applications. She has a number of upgradeable hacking systems placed in her brain, and left hand. She can access security systems and hack into mainframes at will. As well as possessing special radio telepathy that allows her to communicate with her handlers. She is skilled in a number of Martial arts techniques, and weapons. She uses Guns, grenades and other explosives, and she has a special Onyx/ titanium mesh shield, shaped like a five point star. Just like what the original had in the Invaders, only without all the names printed on it.

Now, her handlers. She has a team of agents that she works with. A 17-year-old super genius by the name of Milo. He designs her weapons, and upgrades. He’s also responsible for the super soldier serum she was given. He is her tech man as well as the person responsible for keeping the serum from ravaging her system. He’s a bit full of himself. Needs the constant reassurance of his genius and intellect. Yet he is very self-conscious about his appearance and he has a crush of sorts on Ms. Marshall. Secondly is her radio person, Lydia Grant. Lydia is in constant radio telepathic contact with her on missions. She downloads info to her and anything else she needs. And her commander is Agent West. He works directly for the mysterious government entity that she works for. Very dark, very mysterious. Like Agent Graves over in “100 Bullets”. He treats her more like military hardware than a human being. And that may not be all that far from the truth.

Her missions focus on sabotage,murder,spying, yiu know, your avarage secret agent stuff. She takes on Hydra and A.I.M. cells, as well gathering info on governments like Wakanda and Latveria. She will eventually come into conflict with S.H.I.E.L.D., The Avengers, the FF, the Invaders, and other superhero groups on some of her missions. At some point I wanna see her beat the living snot out of the old US Agent. As well as battle and team up with other governmental operatives like Bullseye or Black Widow. And hired mercs who unknowingly may be working for this secret government entity, like Taskmaster or Agent X. Along the way Liz will discover things about her past. Things that she never knew about. Things that make her question her intire exsistance. As well as who this secret society is she is working for, and what it is they hope to accomplish.

[roach]

awesome but'd change the shield and give her one based on Cap's original one....

[RockSP]

A quick post-jacking question: when did Bullseye become a government agent?

[ThorneFox]

I really like that Anubis, I think I'd pick it up if it were printed. Speaking of getting things printed.....

I finished the character description for the new heir to the "Werewolf by Night" throne. Would anyone like me to post it here?

[DBM]

I really like that Anubis, I think I'd pick it up if it were printed. Speaking of getting things printed.....

I finished the character description for the new heir to the "Werewolf by Night" throne. Would anyone like me to post it here?

Go for it

[ThorneFox]

Alright. It's still choppy, and I haven't done any editing on it yet. But here goes.....

“Werewolf by Night”-Character Analysis

Olcan

Real Name: Zev Olcan
Age: 20
Height: 6’4”
Weight: 210
Hair/Fur Color: Jet black
Eye Color: Amber
History: Olcan was born a werewolf to Beta Zev’s Randi and Tristan. During a fatal accident he lost both of his parents and was placed into the care of Randi’s, his mother, parents. It was with them that he grew to gain a great understanding of his culture and their place in the world. Raised by the Alpha’s of the pack he grew to be very proud of his race and developed a slight distaste for mankind due to the decimation of his race at their hands. Once during what is known as an esbot, a ceremony in honor of the moon, Olcan forced himself into exile after failing to defend his former caretakers during an attack. In an attempt to remain true to his religion and the values of his people, he sought revenge on the people he thought responsible for the collective deaths of both his grandparents and parents. After being captured during a failed assassination attempt on a political leader and having his wolf skin seized he was jailed, tried, and later institutionalized in Aurora Mental Facility for confessing his true reasons for assaulting the President of the United States. It was in Aurora that he met a cured Jack Russel whom believed that Olcan was plagued by lycanthropy as he once was and promised to try and help to cure him. He also came into contact with Hans, a man claiming to be Loki’s son.
When Jack finally decides to “help” a dying Olcan by freeing him and desperately trying to find his skin, Hans insists on helping him (each of them with a different purpose in mind) and a conflict arises. Jack sees Olcan has a an individual who is delusional due to his curse as a werewolf and so sees the destruction of Olcan’s skin as a way to rid Olcan of this curse and thus save him from death. On the other hand, Hans recognizes the true importance of Olcan’s wolf skin and now views Jack to be as much of a threat as their former captors were, it is only once that Olcan is reunited with his skin that he will be cured of his sickness. Once the skin is found Jack battles Hans for the wolf skin only to be bested Olcan whom became aware of Jack’s intentions. Together, Hans and Olcan venture off in order to organize his people in a desperate war against mankind and unravel the mysteries of Hans’ past.
Special Abilities: As a member of the werewolf kith Olcan is granted a wide range of special attributes. Born in the form of a wolf he was blessed with the ability to shed his wolf skin at will in favor of a human form. If any person were to come into possession of Olcan’s wolf skin this person would gain control over Olcan’s mind, body, and soul. Also, during full moons he must remain in this wolf skin or risk succumbing to an illness in which natural born werewolves are only vulnerable to during the Full Moon, called a Lunar Infection. Being the descendant of the Alpha wolves in the pack Olcan is gifted with a wide range of other abilities. For instance, he is known to have an enhanced psychic awareness which may vary in levels of strength between his human and wolf form. He has also gained a great knowledge in herbal lore and the use of runic symbols in magick.

Weapons: As the successor of his pack Olcan is now entrusted with the sacred sword of his people. It’s origins are unknown but it is believed to have been passed down to them as a gift from the great Norse god Odin in exchange for Geri and Freki.

[iloveclones]

I liked the premise, Anubis, except for one thing. You first say it's a faction of the govt. that's sick of superheroes, so what do they do...make a superhero. I thought where you were going with it was that it would be a team of non-powered agents stepping in before the "heroes' would. OR, I was thinking that your main agent develops some sort of super power (I mean, who isn't these days) but hides it from her handlers. Not trying to get you to change it, but you would have to deal with that contradiction.

[newnoiseimage]

i have a series i am already working on, that is similar to this.

bastards.

[ThorneFox]

I liked the premise, Anubis, except for one thing. You first say it's a faction of the govt. that's sick of superheroes, so what do they do...make a superhero. I thought where you were going with it was that it would be a team of non-powered agents stepping in before the "heroes' would. OR, I was thinking that your main agent develops some sort of super power (I mean, who isn't these days) but hides it from her handlers. Not trying to get you to change it, but you would have to deal with that contradiction.

Just because she has enhanced abilities doesn't mean she's a super hero. She's just military hardware man. I thought he'd already pretty much established that to some degree. :hulk:

[DBM]

People seemed to react well to my Thor relaunch as Journey into Mystery idea. And as I mentioned before, I've plotted a years worth of stories. So I've decided to write those stories out and post them here. One issue a month for the next twelve months(maybe quicker if I have time) with the first "issue" coming out next week. It'll be fun for me, hopefully fun for everyone else, and give me a little practice writing. I'll probably start a thread in the Fan-fic section for it.

So, here's the way it'll work. I'l script it out in comic form as if I was passing it on to an artist and post the script here. I'll include some links to pictures or sites that can help get across a point that needs a visual. And I'll black out some parts with spoilers because they give information that an artist would need but could ruin the story for the reader.

My next post will be the a preview of the first draft of the first 11 pages of issue #1.

[newnoiseimage]

People seemed to react well to my Thor relaunch as Journey into Mystery idea. And as I mentioned before, I've plotted a years worth of stories. So I've decided to write those stories out and post them here. One issue a month for the next twelve months(maybe quicker if I have time) with the first "issue" coming out next week. It'll be fun for me, hopefully fun for everyone else, and give me a little practice writing. I'll probably start a thread in the Fan-fic section for it.

So, here's the way it'll work. I'l script it out in comic form as if I was passing it on to an artist and post the script here. I'll include some links to pictures or sites that can help get across a point that needs a visual. And I'll black out some parts with spoilers because they give information that an artist would need but could ruin the story for the reader.

My next post will be the a preview of the first draft of the first 11 pages of issue #1.

please don't....







if you truly like these stories, why not submit them to marvel.

in the every least create some ownership better than posting on a website.

[DBM]

please don't....

if you truly like these stories, why not submit them to marvel.

in the every least create some ownership better than posting on a website.

Well mainly I want to get a reaction from some people who know about comics first. If after a few "issues" I feel I have a handle on it then I may submit it. But I honestly don't have the kind of time necessary to do this for real right now so posting it here holds me over.

[ThorneFox]

I agree. As much as I'd want to read Thor written by you, I'd much rather see it in true form. If you post it here it'll be nothing more than a fanfic, a good fanfic, but still a fanfic

[DBM]

I agree. As much as I'd want to read Thor written by you, I'd much rather see it in true form. If you post it here it'll be nothing more than a fanfic, a good fanfic, but still a fanfic

Well, you guys sure know how to pump up someone's ego. :D

I'll reconsider my plan then. But I'm still posting the first eleven pages of my first "issue."

Mainly because I already formatted it to look good on here and I don't want that time to be a waste. :)

[DBM]

Journey into Mystery #1

COVER

Journey into Mystery Logo. Three massive man-like shapes stand, lit from the front so that no real features can be made out. They look a little “furry” might be a good bit of deception since they will be wearing fur cloaks when actually seen. Shadows cast behind them are distorted into monstrous shapes made to look like Ice Giants. They need seem menacing and mysterious. A winter background/snowstorm would be perfect, giving an eerie glow around their outlines as the light reflects off the snow.

CAPTION: Mystery and Monsters Part 1

PAGE ONE

Darkness. Two “voices” talk in the dark represented by two colored, lens flare-like lights. A red/orange light is Thor awakening and is the first voice. A blue-white light represents the Odinforce and is the second voice. Seven horizontal panels running the full width of the page. The panels growing in size as we go down the page with the last panel being the largest. VOICE 1 always appears on the left side of the page. VOICE 2 always appears on the right side of the page. They are thought boxes, not word balloons.

PANEL 1
Completely black. CAPTION in the top left corner of the panel.

CAPTION: Prologue: Nowhere. The Recent Past

PANEL 2
A faint bluish light appears in PANEL 2 on the far right side of the panel, coupled with a faint orange/red light on the far left side of the panel. Both lights are of equal size and fill up no more than 1/4 of the panel each at their widest point.

VOICE 1: I have awakened.

PANEL 3
Both lights become stronger filling up no more than 1/3 of the panel each at their widest point and are of equal size.

VOICE 2: Do you understand why?

PANEL 4
Both lights become stronger still. They are of equal size and completely fill the panel.

VOICE 1: Yes, you must leave me. And I shall cease to be.

PANEL 5
The blue/white light continuous to increase as the red/orange light decreases. The blue/white light takes up about 2/3 of the panel with the red/orange only taking up 1/3 now.

VOICE 1: Farewell.

PANEL 6
The blue/white light continues to increase as the red/orange light decreases. The blue/white light takes up about 3/4 of the panel with the red/orange back to the size it is in PANEL 2.

VOICE 2: Farewell.

PANEL 7
The blue/white light continues to increase, completely engulfing the red/orange light in this panel.

VOICE 2: For now…
PAGE TWO & THREE

Six equal sized panels across the tops of PAGE TWO and THREE. Channel changing, stopping on the News channel.

PANEL 1
Black and white static. A television being turned on. Tight shot of an old cabinet-style television set. Non-boxed CAPTION in the top left corner of the panel.

CAPTION: Somewhere. The Present

SOUND EFFECT (SFX): Click

PANEL 2
Another channel. ER type show. Surgery being performed (Don Blake reference)

TV SOUND: …me the clamp, nurse, quickly…

SFX: Click

PANEL 3
Another channel. AutoHammer (http://www.komotv.com/does_it_work/story.asp?ID=33300) infomercial. (hammer reference)

TV SOUND: …only needing one hand for use.

SFX: Click

PANEL 4
Another channel. Football Game (Vikings and Giants reference)

TV SOUND: …with the winning touchdown. VIKINGS BEAT THE GIANTS!

SFX: Click

PANEL 5
Another channel. News Channel. MALE NEWSANCHOR and FEMALE NEWSANCHOR at a news desk.

FEMALE NEWSANCHOR: …recaptured after the recent breakout from the Raft. Glad to hear he’s behind bars again. Wouldn’t you agree?

PANEL 6
MALE NEWSANCHOR and FEMALE NEWSANCHOR at a news desk.

MALE NEWSANCHOR: I sure would. In other news, research teams station near the South Pole reported some drastic weather changes in the areas they’re studying. They’re expecting heavy storms and temperatures reaching new record breaking lows.

PANEL 7
Double page spread panel establishing the room the TV is in.

Three large men sit in a one room cabin watching the report. All we see is their backs and they are dimly lit from the television, casting them in a faint bluish glow. This glow is very similar to the glow of the Odinforce seen on page one because these men constitute the Odinforce. Even though we see little definition to them, we can tell they are all immense men because of their size in relation to the room and its contents. The room is sparsely decorated and appears to be a barren hunting cabin with some furs on a wall but no weapons evident. A window can be seen off to one side that shows a winterish outdoors. The MAN ON LEFT is William (Vili), MAN ON RIGHT is Wey (Ve), MAN IN CENTER is EDMUND (Odin).

MAN ON LEFT: It has begun.

MAN ON RIGHT: We must leave immediately.

MAN IN CENTER: So be it.

Two panels, same size as the ones across the top in the bottom right corner of PAGE THREE.

PANEL 8
MALE NEWSANCHOR only at news desk. Picture over his left shoulder showing the Antarctic region he is speaking of. The picture comes from a video camera mounted on top of an antennae roughly 75 feet in the air. The Antarctic Base can be seen as a dark boxy mass.

MALE NEWSANCHOR: This satellite feed is the last video received in before all communications were lost with the base.

PANEL 9
Same as the picture over his shoulder in previous panel, but increased in size and detail to fill the panel. Can see the Antarctic Base better, though vaguely, in the picture. It is very stormy, wind blowing. Has a “NEWS at 10” logo on it in one corner.

PAGE FOUR

PANEL 1
1/2 page panel. Establishing wide shot. Very similar to PANEL 9 on PAGE THREE. Much more detailed. With the Antarctic base larger and more clearly defined. Should be able to see a couple windows with lights on in an upper level, and a large garage bay door below and to one side of the windows. This panel shows the harshness of the environment.

PANEL 2
Closer to the base, we see a smaller area but in more detail.

PANEL 3.
Up close on the base, looking into a window. We can see several people in the room.


PAGE FIVE

PANEL 1
Dining room. Two small cafeteria type table with seating for four each are in the middle of the room. A galley style kitchen is against one wall. The room isn’t very big. GERRY, MUNROE, HUGH, FRED and VAL are all in the room. MUNROE and GERRY are standing arguing with each other. VAL and HUGH are sitting at a table. FRED is leaning against a wall. Ceilings are low, as are doorframes. Almost a submarine-like feel to it.

GERRY: I am not letting you go out there. We’ve never seen anything like this storm.

HUGH: Exactly! That’s what we’re here for, GERRY. We’re supposed to be doing research and that is a unique phenomenon out there.

GERRY: It’s too dangerous. You’ve seen the wind speed reports and the temperature’s still dropping. We’re already starting to drop below the tolerances on our gear.

HUGH: Just barely below it so far. MUNROE, back me up on this.

PANEL 2
Focused on HUGH and VAL.

MUNROE: I’ve got to agree with him, GERRY. Nothing like this has ever been recorded. We need to get data on it. I’d be willing to go.

PANEL 3
Focus on HUGH. FRED in the background

HUGH: MUNROE and I will go out. We’ll just stay out a couple of hours to get data and come back. Hell, we won’t even get out of the snowcat (http://www.cwru.edu/affil/ansmet/snowcat.jpg).

FRED: We could really use the data, GERRY. Who knows when an opportunity like this will present itself again.

PANEL 4
Shot of GERRY, head down, hand at forehead.

PANEL 5
Same as PANEL 4.

GERRY: OK. But only for a couple hours. Go get your gear ready.

PAGE SIX

PANEL 1
HUGH and MUNROE driving the snowcat across the ice fields. They are both bundled up in insulated suits with hoods up around their ears. Outside the snowcat cabin it is nearly completely white. The storm is raging around them. HUGH is driving. MUNROE is looking at a map and a GPS tracker map. Point of view (POV) is over their shoulders, looking out through the windshield.

CAPTION: Three hours later

MUNROE: HUGH, I can’t figure out where were at.

HUGH: What do you mean? Just use the GPS. We know where we came from, just tell me which way to get back there.

PANEL 2
MUNROE’S POV, looking at HUGH. HUGH is squinting outside, trying to see if he can recognize anything in the raging storm.

MUNROE: I know how to work the equipment, HUGH, but the GPS system isn’t working. The storm must be keeping the signal from reaching us.

HUGH: Then just use your compass, or use the stars, or make a guess, I don’t care. We found our way out here, didn’t we? You need to get us back.

MUNROE: Hey! It was your idea to come out and survey. I came along to help so don’t blame this on me.

PANEL 3
Shot of both HUGH and MUNROE looking at each other.

HUGH: I’m not trying to blame this on anyone. I just want to get back. Why’d you volunteer to come along anyway?

MUNROE: I don’t know. It’s just that we’ve never seen anything like this before. We’ve been down here months and this is the most exciting thing that’s happened. I wanted to be part of it. I wanted to make sure that I had a real memory of it. Something I experienced, not just heard about from someone else.

HUGH: You’ve got the experience now. Now lets experience getting us home.

MUNROE: I wish I could but the compass isn’t working either. Must be some kind of magnetic interference or something that’s messing everything up.

PANEL 4
MUNROE picking up the CB-like radio mic from the dash of the snowcat.

MUNROE: Stop here. I’ll try to reach base camp on the radio again. Maybe their equipment can find us and they can tell us which way to go.

HUGH: Fine. Hey, did you see something out there?

MUNROE: What the hell would be out there?

PANEL 5
MUNROE holding the mic up near her mouth and talking in it. HUGH staring out the windy snowstorm searching. A very faint shadowy, vaguely man-like form can be made out in the distance. It should be so faint that readers should question if it’s supposed to be there or not.

MUNROE: Echo Base can you read me? I repeat Echo Base can you read? This is MUNROE in snowcat one. We seem to be lost. I repeat. We cannot find out way back. Can you read?

VAL (through speaker): I hear you MUNROE. Though you’re breaking in and out.

HUGH: I swear I can see something moving out there MUNROE.

PAGE SEVEN

PANEL 1
HUGH and MUNROE in the snowcat. We are looking in from the outside, fairly close to the windshield but not too close because we need room to move in closer during this sequence (we are from the POV of the monster HUGH thought he saw) . MUNROE is still on the radio. HUGH is leaning up, hands on windshield, looking out. He has a worried/confused look on his face.

MUNROE: VAL, glad to hear you. Some kind of interference is keeping our GPS and compass from working. Can you determine our bearings so we can get back?

PANEL 2
VAL sitting at a communications array in the “lab” (detailed description on page 8). Mic in hand. She’s listening to what MUNROE just said.

MUNROE (through speaker): …rence…our…bzzt…working. Bzzzsst…bear…sssst…back.

VAL: Please repeat that MUNROE. I couldn’t understand. I repeat, I could not read. I’m adjusting to hear you better.

PANEL 3
More or less same as PANEL 1 except the snowcat, HUGH and MUNROE are closer as our POV monster gets closer.

MUNROE: I said we’re lost, VAL. We can’t figure out where we are. I know we went out at least thirty miles straight north out from the base but we can’t see any landmarks in the storm and our equipment is useless. Hurry, visibility is dropping quick.

HUGH: MUNROE, I swear to God I see something moving out there.

PANEL 4
Same as PANEL 2

MUNROE (through speaker): … thirty miles straight north out from the base but we can’t see …bzzzt… in the storm and …bzzzt… useless. Hurry, visibility is dropping …bzzt.

VAL: I’ve almost got it adjusted so you’re clear, MUNROE. I’ll try and help anyway I can. I’m going to adjust it a bit more to hear you clearly.

PANEL 5
Similar to PANEL 1 and PANEL 3 but closer still. Both MUNROE and HUGH are up near the windshield. Both look terrified.

HUGH (yelling): MUNROE! Look!

MUNROE (screaming): Oh, my god, what is that!! HUGH, what is it?

HUGH (screaming): I don’t know! It’s coming right at us!

MUNROE (screaming): GET OUT, HURRY, GET OUT!

PANEL 6
Same as PANEL 2 except VAL is no longer in the seat and the mic is hanging by it’s cord off the desk

MUNROE (trailing in over speaker): …GET OUT!

PAGE EIGHT

PANEL 1
VAL bursting into the dining room. FRED and GERRY are sitting at the table, eating. It would be best if they are eating large amounts of meat with their meals because it alludes to their eventual fate.

VAL: GERRY, FRED! Something’s gone wrong with MUNROE and HUGH.

PANEL 2
GERRY FRED and VAL rushing to the lab.

PANEL 3
GERRY, VAL, and FRED around the radio array. GERRY, seated, is holding the microphone and speaking into it. VAL and FRED stand behind him. We are looking over the comm to see all three of them. Room is decorated with charts, topographic and relative heat maps cover the walls, survey equipment and laser sights can be seen leaning in corners, etc.

GERRY: Come in research team one. I repeat come in research team one. Do you read? HUGH? MUNROE? Do you copy?

PANEL 5, 6 & 7
Small panels just to show passing of time. GERRY always at radio, VAL and FRED’s positions move around the room a bit.

PANEL 7
VAL’s POV. GERRY still at radio. FRED off to one side. VAL looking directly at GERRY.

VAL: GERRY, give it up, they’re not going to answer.

FRED: VAL’s right. You’ve been trying for twenty minutes. If they haven’t answered yet then they’re not going to answer.

PANEL 8
GERRY springing up and yelling at FRED now.

GERRY: What do you want me to do FRED? Give up on them? Leave them out there? We have to do something.

FRED: What are we going to do GERRY? They’re not responding.

GERRY: We could go after them.


PAGE NINE

PANEL 1
All three are standing now. VAL is shouting at GERRY. POV is FRED’s now.

VAL: What?! Have you looked at the reports. Hell, have you looked outside? The temp’s still dropping. It’s 120 degrees below zero out there. -120 C°, GERRY. That’s the coldest recorded temperature ever. Ever, GERRY! We’re barely keeping warm in here. We don’t even know if our equipment can handle it and we have no idea what happened to them out there.

GERRY: Which is exactly why we have to get to them. If our equipment here at base camp can’t handle the storm then a research team has no chance.

PANEL 2
POV is VAL’s..

FRED: You’re serious aren’t you.

GERRY: FRED, I’m responsible for everyone down here. I can’t just leave them out there. Especially since I let them go.

FRED: I’ll go with you then.

GERRY: No. You and VAL will stay here. I’ll go after the others. That way if I don’t make it back, neither of you will be alone.

PANEL 3
Wide shot of whole room showing all three of them.

VAL: There’s nothing we can say to stop you?

GERRY: No.

FRED: Then lets get the snowcat ready.


PAGE TEN

We next see GERRY, FRED, and VAL in a large hanger/garage. There is one snowcat sitting in front of a large bay door. Space for a second snowcat, along with tracks from it heading outside, are beside the first one. Scientific research equipment useful in the Antarctic lines the walls of the bay. FRED is at the snowcat prepping it. The view is from about one story up from the catwalk that leads into the main hall. The hanger/garage is two stories tall and it’s floor is at ground level whereas the rest of the base is one floor up. Full page splash establishing the hanger/garage. We are looking down at an angle, with the rail and grate of the catwalk visible at the bottom of the page. The idea is that we are walking along the catwalk looking down at them. Remember, even though this is the largest space it still has a very confined feeling about it. No dialogue because the mood is somber.

PAGE ELEVEN

PANEL 1
VAL is helping GERRY into an insulated suit. They are standing in the space where the snowcat that is gone would be parked. We see FRED at the snowcat GERRY is getting ready to take. FRED is prepping it.

VAL: Are you sure there’s no way to talk you out of this?

GERRY: No. I’ve got to. I’m the one that sent them out to gather data on the storms. I have to go get them. So unless a miracle happens and they show back up here, then I’m going.

FRED (overlapping GERRY talking): Everything’s loaded. You’re ready to go.

GERRY: Thanks. Here I go.

PANEL 2
GERRY climbing up onto the snowcat. FRED giving him a hand. VAL watching. Three loud pounds hit the bay door.

SFX: POUND, POUND, POUND

PANEL 3
GERRY, standing on the tread, FRED and VAL all look to the doors, mouths agape.

FRED: What the hell was that?

VAL: The wind?

GERRY: The wind doesn’t hit the door like tha… (cut off)

SFX: POUND, POUND, POUND

VAL: Oh my god, someone’s knocking.

PANEL 4
GERRY jumping down off snowcat to run to the door.

GERRY: Open the bay door!


End of first half of Issue #1.

[newnoiseimage]

oh, i just dont want to read your crap, its not an ego boost.


















im joking, if its good, maybe someone would be interested, you never know.

[DBM]

And before anyone says anything about this, remember this is the first draft of the first half of one issue. I know it doesn’t feel very “Thor-y” or “Journey into Mystery-y” yet but it’s basically on the first 1/6 of the story .

If you read the spoilers you will get a better feel for where it’s going maybe. And if you know a lot about Norse Mythology you might actually pick up some hidden clues into why these characters are being used.

I’m going to do a final draft over the weekend and maybe post the whole issue next week.

[Anubis]

A quick post-jacking question: when did Bullseye become a government agent?


According to "Bullseye: Greatests Hits", he's always been a government agent in some capacity.

[Anubis]

awesome but'd change the shield and give her one based on Cap's original one....


What? The old one from WWII? I guess that could work too. But I thought that one from the Invaders just looked cool. Plus it's a deadly weapon in and of its self.

[Anubis]

Alright. It's still choppy, and I haven't done any editing on it yet. But here goes.....




I dig it. I like the Hans/Loki thing going on. And the other various Asgardian connections. :up:

[Gambit8370]

I'm liking it.

It reads a little like a John Carpenter film.

:D:up:

[Anubis]

Thats what I was gonna say.

[DBM]

I'm liking it.

It reads a little like a John Carpenter film.

:D:up:

That's kind of what I was going for. Using the pacing and structure to build suspense. To harken back to the original JiM and it's build up and often twist ending.

I want the first arc to feel fairly "small." Almost claustrophobic in nature. Small cast, small spaces, small mystery set within a much larger overall story. In my head I see the art as almost a "documentary" style. You're right in with the characters almost experiencing it as they are through mostly POV shots.

There's a need to ease into the Asgardian aspects because they are on such a grand scale often that to jump straight into might seem jarring. The first three issues would have a gradually expansion of their scope until we reach the necessary level.

[roach]

Holy *****in *****.....if you dont send this in I will for you.......

[Gambit8370]

There is a flavor to it that is reminiscent of 50's & 60's sci-fi/horror.

The only thing I would worry about in it is where you reach that point where you actually do introduce Thor and the gods of Asgard, the casual reader who has no knowledge of Thor or Asgardian legend reads it and goes "WHAT??? All this build-up for some big norwegian guy with a hammer??? I was expecting an alien monster or something!"

Not criticizing.

I'm just sayin'.

[Gambit8370]

Oh btw.

I read this and I see Kubert art.

[roach]

yeah Kubert would be good

[DBM]

Holy *****in *****.....if you dont send this in I will for you.......
Thanks, and if you do, I'll kill you. :mad:
There is a flavor to it that is reminiscent of 50's & 60's sci-fi/horror.

The only thing I would worry about in it is where you reach that point where you actually do introduce Thor and the gods of Asgard, the casual reader who has no knowledge of Thor or Asgardian legend reads it and goes "WHAT??? All this build-up for some big norwegian guy with a hammer??? I was expecting an alien monster or something!"

Not criticizing.

I'm just sayin'.
Feel free to criticize. As long as it's constructive I welcome it.

People expecting an alien monster wouldn't be to far off. The payoff in the first arc does include some big ass monsters. But they're not aliens. They're Frost Giants.

And throughout the first arc, I would work in the Asgardian stuff. In fact the majority of the first arc mirrors the Norse Creation myth so the Asgardians will play a major role. If you read the spoilers I put in, you'll see the begining of this.

Anyone looking for Thor in the first arc will be disappointed. Considering it's the Creation Myth, it focuses on Odin more. The second arc will start in on the Thor-centric things. This is because it fits my idea best and in truth it's playing to the current "Marvel style" of stretching out an origin a bit and not showing the main character immediately.

And I think you're right, Kubert would be good.

Has anyone caught the (somewhat) hidden significance of the Antarctic characters' names? There's not much to go on yet, but if you are astute, and know Norse Myth, you'll get it.

[roach]

Thanks, and if you do, I'll kill you. :mad:


The get your @$$ in gear partner....

[ThorneFox]

Thanks, and if you do, I'll kill you. :mad:

Feel free to criticize. As long as it's constructive I welcome it.

People expecting an alien monster wouldn't be to far off. The payoff in the first arc does include some big ass monsters. But they're not aliens. They're Frost Giants.

And throughout the first arc, I would work in the Asgardian stuff. In fact the majority of the first arc mirrors the Norse Creation myth so the Asgardians will play a major role. If you read the spoilers I put in, you'll see the begining of this.

Anyone looking for Thor in the first arc will be disappointed. Considering it's the Creation Myth, it focuses on Odin more. The second arc will start in on the Thor-centric things. This is because it fits my idea best and in truth it's playing to the current "Marvel style" of stretching out an origin a bit and not showing the main character immediately.

And I think you're right, Kubert would be good.

Has anyone caught the (somewhat) hidden significance of the Antarctic characters' names? There's not much to go on yet, but if you are astute, and know Norse Myth, you'll get it.

Awww man, I was waiting for the surprise too. Anyway......I loved everything that I've read of yours on Thor so far. I hope you get this off the ground soon so I'll have a hard copy of your Journey into Mystery title in my hands shortly.

Some people saw Kubert, while I saw Cassadey (sp?) the artist on AXM.

[DBM]

Some people saw Kubert, while I saw Cassadey (sp?) the artist on AXM.

While I like Cassaday's art, he tends to be a little too photorealistic for my tastes. His work often seems static. I've been thinking maybe Epting based on his work on Captain America but I'm not sure he could handle the fantasy elements of Asgard once we got away from Earth.


I'm thinking about drafting an inquiry letter to Marvel when I get home tonight. Maybe I'll send something off to them after all.

[TheCorpulent1]

The way your story plays out, I could definitely see Stuart Immonen working wonders with it. I liked it a lot. I was a little impatient reading it, but I seem to be that way about every new series these days.

I don't really know what you're alluding to with the names, since the only myth that I keep thinking of is the aftermath of Ragnarok, which leads to the recreation of the nine worlds and everything. But none of the survivors of Ragnarok have names that correspond to your Antarctic researchers.

[Hobbes]

O.K., I got another one. X-Men the end. Now, I only got through about 3 issues of this crap fest before I had to say to hell with it, but I can’t help but think how much better it could have been.

First of all, I woulda went with the War between humans and mutants finally coming about. We would have a united front of Mutants, lead by a new face. Some one young and powerful. They would be the ones who finally set the war off. By assassinating both Charles Xavier and all of congress during a address on mutant tolerance. Humanity is lead by the US. Specifically a new president who seems to be pushing this war along for his own agenda. And caught in the middle would be the X-Men. Mutants are divided on which side to stand on. Lots of people die. Lots of X-Men too. X-Men take out the Mutant leader, but by that time the humans have already created their ultimate weapon. Everything comes to a head when the President tries to unleash some sort of secret weapon to end the mutants once and for all. A new uber powerful Sentinel, that’s like huge, at least 300ft, with nuke capabilities and other earth shattering weapons . But, of course you guessed it by now, it tries to take out everybody. Starting with Vegas, and it works it's way on up to New York, destroying everything in it's path. No one else can stop it so the remaining X-Men are the ones who have to deal with it. WOLVERINE DIES in this battle, as does a number of other X-Men. And it ultimately comes down to Kitty who has to go all the way into it’s reactor core to destroy it. This of course ends the war, and brings about more acceptance and tolerance towards mutants, seeing as they are the ones who saved everybody’s @$$. The X-Men ends with Charles Xavier’s dream finally being realized, but at great cost.

Now, that’s my idea, more or less. I’m sure there’s a lot more that could go into it, but that’s it in a nut shell. I just feel that, if your gonna end the X-Men, then it should involve the stuff that defines the X-Men, Racism, humanity vs. Mutants, and Xavier’s Dream. Nothing about space, and Cable, and the future and even the Phoenix isn’t that important.

Wow, you actually make sense with your ****. Spot on:up:

[DBM]

I don't really know what you're alluding to with the names, since the only myth that I keep thinking of is the aftermath of Ragnarok, which leads to the recreation of the nine worlds and everything. But none of the survivors of Ragnarok have names that correspond to your Antarctic researchers.

The names are a bit of stretch but they definitely have some payoff. They have little to do with the recreation and much more to do with the person who does the recreating.

[Anubis]

Later on I'm gonna be kicking in with an Idea I have for a book on Mutants. Not a X-Men book, but one about life as a mutant. Various one shots and small storyarcs focusing on the trials and tribulations of Mutants in the MU. I already got a few ideas for stories, but I'll have to take some time to put them to paper. I'll get back to you guys on this one.

[ThorneFox]

Hello all,
I've been working on the first issue of my "Werewolf by Night" interpretation. Would anyone like to see the first page (scripted)?

[Anubis]

Sure why not.

[roach]

My Moon Knight epic is coming along nicely...it'll be up soon

[DBM]

Hello all,
I've been working on the first issue of my "Werewolf by Night" interpretation. Would anyone like to see the first page (scripted)?

I would.

[Anubis]

My Moon Knight epic is coming along nicely...it'll be up soon


Cool. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/cool.gif

[ThorneFox]

I would.

Page 1 Panel 1

Show the night sky clearly. Every star and constellation is in view. The moon is shining brightly as a waxing crescent. Something about the night sky makes it appear to be alive or in motion. It is much like the ocean, just thicker and more awe inspiring.

Night Sky: I have existed longer than anything. Long before stars were scattered about me or traced by man. All that happens is under my watch beneath a blanket of stars.

Page 1 Panel 2

The night sky looks exactly as it did in the first panel, except this time it is the background. 7 wolves are walking together along a path in the forest. A fox is hidden in the bushes in which the wolves pass. They are oblivious to the speech of the night sky.

Night Sky: There is much I have seen and there is much in which I have mourned since my birth. Although my omnipresence has waned, the Sun was born of darkness, and so tells me all it sees as do the shadows.

Page 1 Panel 3

Zoom in on the head of a black furred wolf walking behind the 2 wolves at the head of the pack. There is a sorrowful expression on his face and in his amber colored eyes. The reflection of a large wooden house can be seen in his eye.

Night Sky Caption: And as of late, I’ve heard much of the trials one of my children has had to endure repeatedly.

Page 1 Panel 4

Everything is the same as panel one, except the expression on the wolf’s face is one of complete anger meshed with sadness.

Night Sky Caption: At times he is my greatest lover, my greatest work of art. In this moment, he lives on as my greatest tale……..

[Anubis]

Cool. Can almost see this on page. I take it this takes place during the attack on his grandparents right?

[Anubis]

This book I will call Mutant. It’s a book that is a series of one shots and short story arcs about life in the MU as a mutant. There will be no main characters, no superheroes, no climactic battles to save the world that hates and fears them from some threat the Avengers could handled. :rolleyes: Just various stories about mutants and their lives. I already have a few ideas for various stories.


Like Mike

This story is about a mutant who wants to play basketball for his high school team. He’s a tall, lanky kid, with huge hands and blinding speed. He isn’t allowed to play because they feel that his powers give him an unfair advantage over the other student athletes. But isn't that true for all players? Shaq is 7'2" and like 400lbs. He certainly has an unfair advantage over the competion. Why should this mutant not be allowed to use his god given gifts to play ball? So begins a fight to have the first mutant allowed to play high school sports. It harkens back to the days when blacks weren’t allowed to play sports. Kind of a breaking of the “ Species Barrier” so to speak. I can’t really decide on weather to just go with high school sports, so as to relate better with the teenage crowd, or go with Pro sports. With which I could have then placed into continuity a “Mutant League” of pro sports. (Like the Negro Leagues of the early 20th century.) Personally I think the pro aspect would be better, but I think the whole, parents being afraid to have their children playing with a filthy mutie thing would have more impact.


The good Samaritan

This is a total fan boy story, following up on what ever happened to the little mutant girl in “Marvels”. Did she die? Did she get away and manage to survive on her own? I’d like to think the kid made it. I’d also like to think that the kid learned a valuable lesson from the family that took her in all those years ago and stopped to help out some humans during Magneto’s takeover of Manhattan during Morrison‘s run on New X-Men.

The Forgotten Son


There are some families that will just completely turn their backs on a member. Be they Gay, dating outside their race, republican, liberal, whatever. Well, this is the story of a young man who is a Mutant, and how he is disowned from his family. How it affects him. How it affects his parents. How does a 13-year-old Mutant survive alone on the streets of Chicago on his own? What goes through the minds of a parent who would abandon their own child because of the way they are born?

Guess who’s coming to Dinner?


This is a love story. Kate has met the love of her life, and it’s time to bring him home to meet mommy and Daddy. Only problem is, he’s Green, has horns, and webbed feet. Oh what’s a father to do when his baby girl brings home the creature from the black lagoon?


Those are just a few story ideas I have. Others focus on a lot of the things going on in the news today. An openly Mutant pastor being appointed to a church, and the genetic outrage that ensues. Mutants getting their powers for the first time, with devastating effects on those around them. And I aint talkin emotionally. A state bans Mutant Marriage. The effects of this so called “Cure”, as seen in Astonishing X-Men, on the general mutant populace. And much more. I love getting to see the underbelly of a comic universe. For the good and the bad. I just wanna see the parallels to real life in the MU. I think that that has been lost over the years with the X-Men. Too much Soap opera crap and Space jaunts. Not enough focus on what really matters. What this books supposed to be about. Racism, oppression, denying basic human rights, people trying to live life the best they can. Why can’t there be a book like this? There needs to be a book like this.

Well, that’s how I would do it anyway.

[ThorneFox]

That sounds really good. I'm glad it isn't a superhero comic, we need more of those from Marvel.

On the script, no this isn't necessarily during the slaughter of his grandparents. I've decided to make some changes to how that will go, and I want to set some things in motion first before that happens. As you've probably guessed, Night, is the narrator of the story....


....So the title should be looked at as "Werewolf -by Night". With Werewolf written in cursive or something else more poetic.

[Dread]

Good ideas, Anubis. I have to admit most of my ideas, obviously, are more standard superhero/supervillian related.

I did write this one Spider-Man fan-fic called "Pinkie Swear", which I sent to Marvel and they rejected. Basically it was a small story (that had a bit of a retcon) following the effects that a rescue from Spider-Man had on a woman over the course of his 9 year career. Basically a "hero helps the little person" sort of story.

As for why there are less real "events" like your Mutants idea is because the X-Men keep getting caught up in cycles of stuff. Still, I could see "Mutants" being a nice little series with self contained stories by talented writers that fit outside the hero scene. Y'know, like an X-Men Unlimited only that MATTERS. I'd suggest changing the title to X: MUTANTS because unless you can slap an X on it, Marvel would never sell it. :p

True story, which you may know, is that Stan Lee's original title for the X-Men was, in fact, "The Mutants". But his editor at the time didn't think that the average reader would know what a "mutant" was, so that led to the title of X-Men. I read this in one of those WIZARD X-Specials they spit out every few years.

"I've heard enough from you X-people. X-scuse me."

[Anubis]

That sounds really good. I'm glad it isn't a superhero comic, we need more of those from Marvel.

On the script, no this isn't necessarily during the slaughter of his grandparents. I've decided to make some changes to how that will go, and I want to set some things in motion first before that happens. As you've probably guessed, Night, is the narrator of the story....


....So the title should be looked at as "Werewolf -by Night". With Werewolf written in cursive or something else more poetic.


I like the idea. Mother night, telling the story of a Werewolf. Please, post more whenever you get the chance.

[Anubis]

Good ideas, Anubis. I have to admit most of my ideas, obviously, are more standard superhero/supervillian related.

I did write this one Spider-Man fan-fic called "Pinkie Swear", which I sent to Marvel and they rejected. Basically it was a small story (that had a bit of a retcon) following the effects that a rescue from Spider-Man had on a woman over the course of his 9 year career. Basically a "hero helps the little person" sort of story.

As for why there are less real "events" like your Mutants idea is because the X-Men keep getting caught up in cycles of stuff. Still, I could see "Mutants" being a nice little series with self contained stories by talented writers that fit outside the hero scene. Y'know, like an X-Men Unlimited only that MATTERS. I'd suggest changing the title to X: MUTANTS because unless you can slap an X on it, Marvel would never sell it. :p

True story, which you may know, is that Stan Lee's original title for the X-Men was, in fact, "The Mutants". But his editor at the time didn't think that the average reader would know what a "mutant" was, so that led to the title of X-Men. I read this in one of those WIZARD X-Specials they spit out every few years.

"I've heard enough from you X-people. X-scuse me."

That SPider-Man story sounds interesting. What was it about exactly?

"The Mutants", I like the sound of that. Would be a pretty cool homage to Stan if my idea was called that. But your right. It probally wouldn't get picked up if it didn't have an X in front of it or didn't have Wolverine on every cover. But I think one writer would work best for this book. That has always been the problem for books like X-Men Unlimited or Web of Spider-Man. With different teams coming on at every ish or arc, you would constantly have fluctuations in the quality of the work. Best to get one person who could write the thing. Maybe different artist. If you could get Alex Ross to do the "Good Samaritan" issue, that would be great. Fit the artist to the content of the book.

[Anubis]

I had a story idea for "The Mutants" about a Mutant with Healing powers trying to go through med school and keep his powers a secret. He's considered a hot shot young intern. Working in one of the best hospitals in the world. He's considered one of the most promising prospects of the last 10 years. Until he's exsposed as a Mutant. Saving the life of a small child who is badly injured in a car accident. The hospital gets sued by various patients when this gets out. Angry because they were operated on by a Mutant. Saying the the hospital was negligent in hiring a mutant who could have possibly put the paitents lives in danger with his strange powers. Oh how they forget the fact that he saved their lives when they most certainly would have died. :rolleyes: It’s a look at a guy who wants to try and help people with his gifts, and ends up being screwed over by the very same ignorant and money hungry people he sought to help.

[iloveclones]

Anubis, you know an interesting twist on that idea would be if the family of someone who died in the ER sues the hospital because they didn't do everything they could to save their family member by NOT letting your mutant heal him.

[Anubis]

Thats a good idea.

[Dread]

The problem I sometimes have is that with the liberal media, especially Democrats, in real life seemingly concerned with helping minorities and people from other nations, it sometimes seems illogical that there still would be such venom against mutants. They're a minority just like Blacks, Hispanics, etc. If you can't get away with lynching a black man in the South anymore without arrests and high sentences, then why is a mutant acceptable? Likely due to Marvel's wonky way of having time pass; the X-Men and Spider-Man have been around over 40 years, but in Marvel time it is about 10. In 1962, mobs throwing hate riots at Mutants wasn't so uncanny. In 2005 it would be. iloveclones idea is solid like that; in 2005, I could see a lot of the fogies who run governments, corporations, etc, still being "closet bigots" towards mutants (and other minorities, which happens in real life), but many people on the outside adapting a little better. As in, they'd hate a mutant if they stole their radio, but wouldn't mind having their life saved by them, and would be angry at an intititution that held them down.

As for "Pinkie Swear", I posted it at the Hype Fan-Fiction section, along with most of my other work, but after they revamped the site a few times it was deleted. The specifics of the story were basically that when Spider-Man was still a teenage hero, he saved a teenage girl from committing suicide and in her emotional anguish, promised to meet by her window and talk to her regularly. The story was from the woman's POV as she recalls how her life has changed while Spider-Man became a sort of 'living imaginary friend" like Peter Pan to help her through life. Most of the tale is in flashback as the woman, now with her own children, is going through a rough patch and remembers some of the earlier times, when a familiar web-slinger happens to look her up again.

Most of my fan-fics have been Spider-related. My first one was named "TSUNAMI" and was this simple story about Hydro-Man becoming this half-assed "eco-terrorist" and wanting to merge with the ocean and ravage areas, which of course brought the attention of Spider-Man and Namor.

The second major one was this long 130+ page thing called "GARGAN", which was basically about Mac Gargan, aka The Scorpion, being the test subject for a psychotherapy drug (like Ritalin or Prozac) made for insane superhumans, which actually deadens his emotions and makes him dangerously cunning. The whole ordeal was me wanting to return Gargan to where he was originally intended, as an opposite match of sorts for Spider-Man beyond just angry attacks. At the time MJ and Peter were split so Black Cat was a major supporting character.

My last one was about Venom, titled "And The Darkness Binds Us", which pretty much was just a tale of my interpretation of him as a lethal vigilante, and the isolation it can cause as Brock in his human form starts to meet a woman.

I posted all of these at the Hype Fan-Fic forums, but only the Venom one really is available.

[roach]

The problem I sometimes have is that with the liberal media, especially Democrats, in real life seemingly concerned with helping minorities and people from other nations, it sometimes seems illogical that there still would be such venom against mutants. They're a minority just like Blacks, Hispanics, etc. If you can't get away with lynching a black man in the South anymore without arrests and high sentences, then why is a mutant acceptable? Likely due to Marvel's wonky way of having time pass; the X-Men and Spider-Man have been around over 40 years, but in Marvel time it is about 10. In 1962, mobs throwing hate riots at Mutants wasn't so uncanny. In 2005 it would be. iloveclones idea is solid like that; in 2005, I could see a lot of the fogies who run governments, corporations, etc, still being "closet bigots" towards mutants (and other minorities, which happens in real life), but many people on the outside adapting a little better. As in, they'd hate a mutant if they stole their radio, but wouldn't mind having their life saved by them, and would be angry at an intititution that held them down.
.

I think what happens is that if there wasnt a Magneto or a Brotherhood of evil mutants then HUmanity and Mutantkind would be ok.I say would be because there is still the fact that at some day and time mutants will replace humans as the primary lifeform on this planet. Whether or not it is peaceful is another thing. After 911 happened there were several 1000 reports across the country of violence towards people of islamic and arab descent. This would be the same thing if a mutant blew up NY like Magneto did.

[Dread]

Of course, Magneto DIDN'T blow up New York. That was Xorn's brother pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn. Thanks, Marvel! The guy actually does something downright BAD and it has to be negated. No wonder after all the good villians become anti-heroes, all the rest are usually ignored or become lame.

But, yes, most of the public would believe he did.

The fact of the matter is, it is still illegal to go after Muslims here after 9/11. They had legal recourse, or could sue, or would have an eager newspaper or news station report their case. Hell, statistically, half of all crime is committed by minorities, yet it is not legal to descriminate against them or judge them by their color, even for police (who have been tried for descrimination or profiling). So with cases like this brought up against established forces for going over people's rights, especially in NYC where I live, sometimes it seems silly that somehow doing it against mutants is okay, but if a cop in Marvel did it against a Muslim or a Black or another minority, it'd be a crime. It seems unrealistic with the times. Anti-mutant bigotry, like any kind, would still exist, I just don't think it would be as literal as, say, hordes of robot killers coming about every few years. Imagine the outcry if the U.S. military decided all Muslims were evil and sent out robots to kill them. Yet with mutants everyone is mum, even in the superhero community, towards mutants?

I suppose the flaw is that if the status quo of the mutant thing changes too much, the X-Men for some reason seem less important or needed. At least in the eyes of many editors at Marvel. If mutants are accepted, then all the X-Men will be is superheroes and runners of a seperate-but-equal mutant school. If they remain persecuted, then they also are more of a protector of them. It would be nice if more recent social issues were brought up in more mainstream X-titles instead of space soap operas sometimes.

[Anubis]

You know Dread, I have always felt exactly the same way. Mutants are treated in a kind of over the top kinda way in the comics. At this point in time within the MU, Mutants should be, at the very least, tolorated by the mainstream of socitey. But at the same time there should be a certain degree of progress by mutants as a minority. Mutants on t.v. and movies. I had a great idea on how to introduce Morph as a comedic actor. Very Jim Carey like. Would mutants be allowed to play proffesional sports? I don't know. Thats not a racial thing but a matter of fairness. Think about a mutant who is poseing as a regular joe. Playing baseball and socking dingers like crazy. It would be like the whole steroids use scandal going on right now, but with a twist. It goes back to my other post were I was talking about god given gifts. Guys just naturally stronger than normal humans. Should he not be allowed to play? It's not like he takes a drug to make him stronger or anything. I can see people fighting for his right to play. Both humans and mutants. Just as I could still see people saying that it is an unfair advantage. Thats my idea. Open ended stories that, when you think about it, both sides have a fairly good point. No, humans burning crosses on mutants lawns. Or stringing them up in the woods. Not saying that that wouldn't happen. Because there will always be your "friends of humanity" types. Just like there is still a Klan element today. Remember Jasper,Texas? That was just a few years ago. I just think that it wouldn't happen as often. And you don't have to resort to simply connecting the mutant plight to the 1960's civil rights movement. It should be updated. To adhear to the way things are today. I would say that Mutants are more similar to the way homosexuals are treated today. Where the far right and religous types would condem them, and the librils would make them mayrters. meanwhile the people in between either don't care, or simply choose not to vocalize their dislike.

And Roach is also right. As long as the Brotherhood and people like Mags exsist, there will continue to be hatred and fear of mutants.

[ThorneFox]

Hell, statistically, half of all crime is committed by minorities, yet it is not legal to descriminate against them or judge them by their color, even for police (who have been tried for descrimination or profiling).

Those statistics only depend on the nature of crimes. I think there are less minorties (statistically) committing corporate/white collar crimes.

Anyway......I think the idea of X-Men is moreover treating mutants as animals have often been treated and as some people were treated for hundreds of years. Think about it, "mutants" haven't even been known to the public for all of 5 decades yet. It took centuries before things calmed down the way they have before peope could get the illusion that racism was a thing of the past (and some people do have that illusion).

So considering that mutants have in real time been known to the public for 5 decades, but in the Marvel universe not even a single decade, then yes it's reasonable to think there would still be great amounts of violence and injustice towards them.

[Dread]

The X-Men have presumably been around 10 years (and I only use that figure because they showed up about a year after Spider-Man arrived and he's not usually allowed to hit 30 under most writers, so therefore the X-Men can't be older than 10-11 years, but of course it depends on who you ask), but on the other hand mutants had existed before they were formed. Just more of them started coming out. It was implied even in X-Men #1 that mutants had been around a while. Obviously the public likely became aware of them around Xavier and Magnus' younger years.

Yes, like I said, bigots, even extreme ones, do exist. You always hear on the news of someone being a Neo-Nazi somewhere every now and then, and the Klan still exists. But I think if Marvel wanted to me more modern, mutants wouldn't be hated at the same level as they have been before. I didn't really ready much of Morrison's run, but he tried to get the relations down to a more modern level and that is a noble effort. A lot of the things Anubis addresses with "Mutants" are valid and real.

[ThorneFox]

The X-Men have presumably been around 10 years (and I only use that figure because they showed up about a year after Spider-Man arrived and he's not usually allowed to hit 30 under most writers, so therefore the X-Men can't be older than 10-11 years, but of course it depends on who you ask), but on the other hand mutants had existed before they were formed. Just more of them started coming out. It was implied even in X-Men #1 that mutants had been around a while. Obviously the public likely became aware of them around Xavier and Magnus' younger years.

Yes, like I said, bigots, even extreme ones, do exist. You always hear on the news of someone being a Neo-Nazi somewhere every now and then, and the Klan still exists. But I think if Marvel wanted to me more modern, mutants wouldn't be hated at the same level as they have been before. I didn't really ready much of Morrison's run, but he tried to get the relations down to a more modern level and that is a noble effort. A lot of the things Anubis addresses with "Mutants" are valid and real.

True, I agree with most of what you're saying. But the point I'm trying to make is that I think things would take longer than you think to settle down just like current race relations have. Relating hundreds of years to a few decades says alot. Mutants simply haven't been so clearly in the public eye as human minorities. Not to mention that you're talking about people whom may/may not be replacing this species all together.

You should read Morrison's run to get a better idea of what I'm talking about. He related the human-mutant struggle to the competition between Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons. It's more of a fight for dominance than utter hate and disgust.

[ThorneFox]

Bumping this thread to say a few things,

I've worked out the kinks of "Werewolf-by Night" and have finished scripting the first issue of it. I could post the first 12 pages of the revised script if anyone wants to see it here.

I also have another Hard Fantasy title I'm working on known as "Waning Veil".

[Anubis]

Go for it.

I've been working on my idea for how I would handle a run on X-Men. Involving a new non violent Mutant rights group gaining popularity with there enigmatic leader. And the way its starting to get the government riled up. I also thought of a cool new way to use the 616 Mimic.

And I'm working on my first Fan Fic. Something I would like to call "Getting ahead in Super Villiany" But I'm really just in the early stages. This will be my very first time and I really want to do it right. Stay tuned.

[ThorneFox]

Page 1 Panel 1

We are looking at a very mystifying picture of the night sky. The stars are shining to show the silhouette of a wolf jumping into battle. The Aurora Borealis is also in view. This is the night sky as seen from Northern Michigan.

Captions: One would wonder what beautiful tales the Night sky keeps from us locked behind tight lips.

Page 1 Panel 2

The stars now shine, in the same mystifying night sky to show a man coming out of the wolf’s mouth. It is only the silhouette, so don’t worry about details.

Captions: Of all entities, the Night sky must have the most compelling tales to tell. After all it has been here longer than the Earth itself.

Page 1 Panel 3

Now the stars show the wolf skin limp in the sky, while the man sits hunched over. The moon is where his eyes should be, and it appears to be of an Amber color.

Captions: And the Moon, its charge, is often at the very center of things.

Page 1 Panel 4

We are now looking at a “human” eye, which is the same color as the Moon from the last panel. Add more detail to the eye. It should look as mystifying as the night sky and yet more imposing. The man this eye belongs to has golden brown skin and very dark features. Long, stringy, jet black hair hangs in front of the eye.

Captions: As it serves as a muse to most individuals.












Page 2 Panel 1

Olcan, a tall and lanky individual, with shaggy jet black hair and beard with amber eyes, is being restrained in a hallway. This hallway is in the Innsmouth Asylum. There are orderlies rushing to him with restraints and sedatives ready.

Caption (Night off panel): Fight my child, fight like a wolf…

Page 2 Panel 2

The orderlies now have Olcan pinned to the ground. He is furious and is still struggling with a straight jacket being secured around him. A hand can be seen injecting a sedative into his neck.

Caption (Night off panel): …tear their feeble bodies asunder.

Page 2 Panel 3

Olcan is still gritting his teeth with a look of rage upon his face.

Orderly: You’re only making this harder on yourself. Stop your struggling and no one will get hurt.

Olcan: How dare you command me you wretched ape.

Page 2 Panel 4

Olcan is breaking out of the straight jacket as he throws some of the orderlies off of him.

Olcan (thinking): I can feel her pulsing through me…she is with me through all of this.

Page 2 Panel 5

Olcan is running past a holding cell where a man (Hans) is standing inside looking out. He has platinum blonde hair and icy blue eyes.

Olcan (thinking): She houses the Dark Moon tonight, giving me her strength…and the speed I’ve been without for so long while absent of my skin.







Page 3 Panel 1

There are more orderlies rushing after Olcan. One manages to grab him and is injecting more sedatives into him.

Olcan (thinking): They defile my body with their poisons, with their hands…

Orderly: GET HIM GET HIM!!!!

Page 3 Panel 2

Olcan is shown with one orderly holding back his left arm as Olcan swings at another with his right. Another drug is shown being injected into him.

Olcan (thinking): Human hands should not touch me while The Dark Lady flows through my body. I am hers and hers alone.

Page 3 Panel 3

Olcan is now falling to the ground in a state of exhaustion. Hans is still watching banging his hands against the glass.

Olcan (thinking): And yet she lets them take me…..

Hans (yelling): Unhand him…don’t you know who he is? He’s the Wolf Prince!!!!

Page 3 Panel 4

Focus in on Hans who is still banging on the glass.

Hans (yelling): I command you at once!!! Do not deny your lord!!! My father commands you to cease. The Lord of Mischief will be very displeased.

Page 3 Panel 5

The orderlies are shown purposely ignoring Hans as they walk past him carrying Olcan’s limp and restrained body.









Page 4 Panel 1

Olcan is now propped up in the corner of a white padded room. He looks to be in a daze. A beautiful young 20 something nurse (Nurse Corina) is standing in front of him with a cart with medication and cups of water on it.

Nurse Corina: Well hello there sir, how are you doing this morning?

Olcan: ……

Page 4 Panel 2

Show Nurse Corina from Olcan’s perspective. He is having a hallucination where she is nude and her hair is down but is still holding up his chin with a finger as she gives him his medicine. Use very psychedelic colors and images in the background to convey madness.

Nurse Corina: Now, now, drink up…

Page 4 Panel 3

Olcan is left alone in his room. Nurse Corina (now back into her more conservative appearance) is rolling the cart out.

Olcan (thinking): A weird sister…there are tales in our kingdom which speaks of them. We are taught to fear them, for they are witches without morals free of the restrictions placed upon mortal men.

Page 4 Panel 4

Olcan looks fearfully from his room.

Olcan (thinking): Of course, she is not to be feared.













Page 5 Panel 1

It is later in the day when the patients are allowed to gather in the recreation room. Olcan, Hans, and a larger man named Gary are all huddled together in a corner. Gary looks well kept and comfortable around Olcan and Hans.

Gary: You two are nice, I’ll only talk to you two…you two are above all of them.

Hans: But you are one of them you know?

Olcan: Stop it now Hans, you mustn’t patronize him. We have no say in what bodies our souls will take.

Gary: Do…do you think you can make me a god too Hans?

Hans: No…that’s an absurd notion. Gods are not made, they are born.

Olcan: Yes…but only after they are made.

Hans: Quiet…you mangy dog.

Page 5 Panel 2

Gary is sneering at a passing orderly. Hans has his arms folded once more with his nose raised in the air signifying a state of superiority over his company. Olcan has his legs folded in a chair.

Olcan: I know they have my skin. I can smell it on the weird sisters each time they come around…even more on that Phillips character.

Hans (whispering): Have you figured out how you’re going to get it?

Olcan(whispering): I’d thought so until recently. I wasn’t expecting to be overwhelmed so easily. This is a bad omen…

Hans (whispering): Do you think infection is setting in, from spending so many months without your skin on Full Moons?

Olcan (whispering): Yes, and being in here without proper nourishment and rest.

Page 5 Panel 3

Olcan is now scratching his head while his legs are still folded in the chair. Hans and Gary are now sneering at the same orderly.

Hans (whispers): Careful what you say pup, you never know whose listening.
Olcan (whisper): They do not worry me. Their ears would suit me fine on a platter.

Hans (whisper): So what are you going to do?

Gary (whisper): Whatever it is, you’re taking me with you.

Olcan (whisper): I refuse to tell the likes of the both of you.

Hans & Gary: Why?

Page 5 Panel 4

Olcan is pointing at Hans. Hans is taken aback.

Olcan: Because Tricksters breed tricks and I simply don’t trust them.

Page 5 Panel 5

Olcan is pointing at Gary

Olcan: And you will remain here, because it is where you belong. I will go to my home and you must stay in yours.

Page 5 Panel 6

Olcan, Gary, and Hans are all sitting in the circle now turned away from one another.

Gary: Who ever thought Gods and Monsters could be so cruel?

Olcan: I am no monster…

Hans: …and I am simply half a god you misanthropic twit.

Gary: Then I hate a whole half of you…












Page 6 Panel 1

Olcan is sitting in his room as he looks out of the clear door before him. The lights in the asylum are dim.

Olcan (thinking): I can hear them coming. All three of their hearts are beating as they take turns seeing through their eye. That terrible eye, in which could pierce the Earth if they chose.

Page 6 Panel 2

The lights in the asylum have all been turned off now. Olcan is still looking out of his door.

SFX (footsteps): click clack click clack click clack click clack

Olcan (thinking): They mean to harm me….

Page 6 Panel 3

A murder of crows is flying past the door now as Olcan looks on in horror. They have red eyes, and look almost ethereal.

SFX (crows): Caw, caw, caw, caw….

SFX (footsteps): click clack click clack click clack click clack

Olcan (thinking): It is the crone now. The crone is coming to take my soul. She is coming to invade my body.

Page 6 Panel 4

Focus in on the crone (Nurse Aldona). Right now she appears as an average Head Nurse of about 75 years old. Her hair is pale white, almost silver and she is very intimidating.

Nurse Aldona: It’s a pity I almost forget to give you your night time treats sweetie….

Page 6 Panel 5

Nurse Aldona is now looking towards Olcan. Her face is now withering to look more like a skull. She is smiling fully, showing her teeth. Her teeth are rotted and moving behind them is a crow chipping away at them.

Nurse Aldona: Come now dearie, don’t be frightened. Open up now…..


Page 6 Panel 6

Nurse Aldona’s face now looks like a skeleton shrouded in shadows. She is engulfed in the murder of crows flying from her mouth towards Olcan. Skin is still sliding from the bone, while some crows are feeding on it.

Nurse Aldona (crone voice): …..it’s time for your medicine!!!





Page 7 Panel 1

The murder of crows has syringed needles for beaks and is now rushing past Olcan. Olcan is guarding himself and fanning away at the crows.

Nurse Aldona (yelling in crone voice): Heh heh heh heheh…..

Page 7 Panel 2

Olcan is now on the ground bleeding and still swatting away at the crows. Some crows have managed to land on his body and are now sticking their syringed, needle-beaks into his skin. The skeletal hands of Nurse Aldona are now gripping his arms holding him down. Her skeletal face is pressed up against his. He is terribly frightened.

Nurse Aldona (crone voice): You must rest with the world.



Page 8 Panel 1

It is closer to the afternoon now. Olcan is now waking up in his white padded room. He is sweating profusely and appears to have wet himself. Not yet out of the bed, he is gasping for air.

Caption: The Next Day:

Olcan(loud): gasp!!!!

Page 8 Panel 2

Olcan is now looking over his bed towards the floor. The floor is out of view. We only see Olcan’s reaction to what he sees on the floor. He is shocked.

Olcan (whisper): No….they…they’re still here.



Page 8 Panel 3

A woman (Nurse Cybele) is now standing in the cell with Olcan. On her cart are medications and lunch food. She has on a nurses’ uniform, and sandy brown hair. Nurse Cybele has broad shoulders, appears to be in her mid-30’s, and is big-boned.

Nurse Cybele: Good afternoon sleepy head. Guess who gets to feed you this morning?

Page 8 Panel 4

Nurse Cybele is spoon feeding Olcan. Olcan appears slightly aggravated at the moment.

Nurse Cybele: Yum yum, isn’t that cube steak delicious?

Page 8 Panel 5

Nurse Cybele is now feeding herself a piece of cube steak from Olcan’s plate while smiling. Olcan seems more aggravated.

Nurse Cybele: Now some for me!!!

Page 8 Panel 6

Nurse Cybele looks very rustic now. (In her Mother form) She looks painted in blood, with a large bear pelt draped over her body. The head of the pelt is positioned on her head like a cowl. Nude except for the bear pelt, she has the spiral of life painted in blood on her stomach (she is pregnant). She is now kneeling down eating more of Olcan’s food.

Nurse Cybele (Mother voice): Better eat it now before I get hungry…

Page 8 Panel 7

Nurse Cybele (in her Mother form) is now holding cups of Olcan’s medicine in her hand. Olcan is backed into a wall in fear.

Nurse Cybele: Time for your medicine now….drink up sweetie.

Page 8 Panel 8

Nurse Cybele now appears in her regular form. She is leaving Olcan’s room and looking back at him as she smiles.

Nurse Cybele: Come along now, I think your friends are waiting for you.
Page 9 Panel 1

This is the time of day when the patients are in the recreation room. Gary and Hans are now sitting together looking over at Olcan. Olcan has distanced himself from them and is in the distance staring at something outside. There doesn’t appear to be anything outside.

Gary: What’s wrong with him?

Hans: How should I know? I’m not exactly omniscient now am I?

Gary: But you’re a god!!!

Hans: A demigod…that makes me demi-scient.

Gary: That isn’t even a word.

Hans: How would you know? Maybe your inferior species simply doesn’t know about it yet?

Page 9 Panel 2

Focus more on Olcan. We are viewing him from behind as he looks out of the window. Peering back at him is a wolf with white fur and lavender eyes.

Olcan (whispering): …and what of the kingdom is it still intact?

White Wolf: Our kingdom has fallen without you…The masks came in and took more of our treasures. I do not know how many more battles we can handle.

Olcan (whispering): I am sorry. I should not have been so careless with my skin.

White Wolf: You are right in your guilt. Your actions have cost us many lives. Father was slain yesterday, and we could not offer his soul to Ull, for they had taken both bodies.

Olcan (whispering): By the Night sky…I never meant for any of this to happen.










Page 9 Panel 3

We are now focusing on the wolf who looks disappointed.

White Wolf: What have they done to you to make you so weak?

Olcan (whispering off panel): They have broken me sister, they have poisoned The Dark Lady as she dwelled through my body….

White Wolf: gasp…no…

Olcan (whispering off panel): …tainting the only power I had left to move me. Even the Weird Ones dwell here, tempting me, taking my food, infecting my soul with their four eyes between them.

Page 9 Panel 4

Olcan has his hand placed on the window as the White Wolf has her paw to the window.

White Wolf: We will come for you. It is only a matter of time. Do no let them break you…

Olcan (whispering): I know.

White Wolf: …we are above them. We are a proud race, closer to home than they over will be. They are the ones who do not belong, the ones who were infected, not us..

Olcan (whispering): I know.

White Wolf: Now I must be going, take particular care in keeping our mysteries safe. And don’t trust the Trickster.

Page 9 Panel 5

Focus on the White Wolf again who is walking away from Olcan. She is fading away.

White Wolf: Ull be with you…









Page 10 Panel 1

Hans is now approaching Olcan from behind, placing his hand on his shoulder.

Hans: Any word on the state of things?

Olcan: No…nothing yet.

Hans: Well be sure to let me know when you are ready to take action. My father has agreed to aid us when we are ready.

Olcan (thinking): “Do not trust the Trickster!”

Page 10 Panel 2

Hans is now walking away from Olcan smirking sinisterly.

Hans (whispers): And you can trust me…regardless of what that mangy ***** says.

Page 10 Panel 3

Olcan is now lunging at Hans in a fit of rage. Hans is startled.

Olcan (yelling): I will not tolerate you any longer!!!

Page 10 Panel 4

Olcan is strangling Hans now. The patients are now panicking, while orderlies rush to the scene. Gary is also running towards them.

Olcan (yelling): We are a noble people…

Page 10 Panel 5

The orderlies have gotten closer. Gary is trying to pry Hans and Olcan apart.

Olcan (yelling): …and you are only half of what you wish you could be.

Page 10 Panel 6

The orderlies are now pulling Olcan off of Hans while pulling a disheveled Hans away.

Olcan (yelling): Your blood is tainted…you are filthy with the blood of men!!!



Page 11 Panel 1

Olcan is now being heavily restrained by the orderlies. He is smiling and a shadow is caste over his eyes.

Olcan: All of you will pay for what you have done.

Page 11 Panel 2

The orderlies are now carrying Olcan out of the room. Nurses Corina, Cybele, and Aldona are tending to Hans. They appear to be in a normal state. Hans is explaining to the nurses what has happened.

Page 11 Panel 2

Olcan is glaring over his shoulder at Hans and the Nurses.

Page 11 Panel 3

The nurses are now in their Maiden, Mother, and Crone forms. The maiden is where Corina is placed, the Mother is where Cybele is placed, and the Crone is where Aldona is placed. Each of them is missing an eye. Mother Cybele is passing the eye to Crone Aldona.

Olcan (thinking caption): It is now that I learn that they are all in this together. Each of them is a puzzle, put together by whoever it is who has my skin.

Page 12 Panel 1

Dr. Phillips is talking to Nurse Aldona in his office. He runs the Innsmouth Asylum. His office should be filled with books relating to psychology, his PhD certificate, various awards and certifications, and a large box in the corner of his office behind his desk. Dr. Phillips is very thin, with a thin weasel-like face, he should be modeled after H.P. Lovecraft.

Dr. Phillips: As much as it pains me to say it. I think our young “werewolf” gentleman would be better off in seclusion. He is simply becoming too violent to be around the other patients. His episodes are becoming more and more vivid. After today’s ordeal I think it would be proper to say that he has fully shifted himself outside of this society.

Nurse Aldona: I agree with you fully Dr. Phillips. Where would you suggest we move him to?




Page 12 Panel 2

Dr. Phillips and Nurse Aldona are still sitting down in the office.

Dr. Phillips: I think he should be relocated to the lower level. I would like to begin working more closely with him.

Nurse Aldona: But, he refuses to speak to anyone, besides those Gary Walton and that Hans Wegner fellow.

Dr. Phillips: Oh I know Aldona…

Page 12 Panel 3

Dr. Phillips is now looking down at the trunk. Draw the trunk as it is seen from his perspective. It should be large enough to hold a large comforter/wolf skin.

Dr. Phillips: …but I’m sure he can be persuaded.

[Anubis]

:up: Great stuff man. Damn good work.

[ThorneFox]

Thanks man

[DarkKnightJRK]

Adressing the Mutant-Human things going on in the MU: I agree with Dread and Anubus about the way it should be more modernized.

Here's another twist to it: Stereotyping.

Think about it, almost every rap video you see are black men/women talking about their cars and their ho's and such, so the more ignorent people think that ALL black people are like this. This could also be used in the MU more.

Most of the big mutants make big headlines, either in the X-Men or in the Brotherhood, wouldn't it make sence that some of the ignorent people think that ALL mutants are wanting to be superheroes?

This could also set up problems involving the X-Men, making them slightly hated even in the mutant community, because they make a bad reputation towards the other mutants, the regular guys trying to make a decent living.

Sound good?

[ThorneFox]

That's a good way to look at it.

[roach]

Sorry about the delays with my Moon Knight Fanfic as I am currently working on my Westcoast Avengers fanfic that takes place after Disassembled and a fan fic for my Supergroup in the game City of Heroes....it should be up shortly(i hope)

[Anubis]

Can't wait to see it.

And DarkknightJRK, yeah, thats a pretty good way of looking at it. Though I'd figure that humanity would look at the negative aspects like for instance, seeing all mutants as potential terrorists, as opposed to them possibly wanting to be superheros. But, thats still an interesting point of view. I mean, you have powers, why not use them to help? And looking at all the Mutants that are in fact Superheros, Quicksilver, the Scarlett Witch (pre Disassembled), the X-Men, people could come to that conclusion.

[DarkKnightJRK]

Can't wait to see it.

And DarkknightJRK, yeah, thats a pretty good way of looking at it. Though I'd figure that humanity would look at the negative aspects like for instance, seeing all mutants as potential terrorists, as opposed to them possibly wanting to be superheros. But, thats still an interesting point of view. I mean, you have powers, why not use them to help? And looking at all the Mutants that are in fact Superheros, Quicksilver, the Scarlett Witch (pre Disassembled), the X-Men, people could come to that conclusion.

Good point. You can almost make comparisons to the Muslum community after 9/11.

[Zoken]

I have another Idea for my UM2.

DSA: Deep South Avengers

As a young boy Chance Burton moved from Alabama to Wisconson, where he watched the GLA's "heroics". now as a man he has moved back south to Orlando Florida with his younger sister Brandi. he has known for a while now that he is different from most he is Lucky. lucky beyond all reasoning. he has won three different lotteries, by picking up tickets that he found on the streets. he walked bya slot machine and it malfunctioned spitting out twenty dollars in coins, on a day when he desperately needed fifteen dollars in gas. So, taking a page from the book of Mr. Incredible, he not only turns into a costume (if you call a black T-shirt with a four leaf clover a costume), but also assembles a rag-tag team.

Lucky-Chance Burton
Jean Harliquinn, the Mardis Gras Gardian- Roger DuBois
Captain Seminole, reluctant protector of his people's land - John Runningfox
Lightning Fists, electric boxer- Rachel White
Predetress, shape shifting vixen- Danielle Cole
Dolittle, the animal Talker, Kyle Sweetwater.

Part of the funny would be that they become local celebrities, earning them all sorts of perks, that Lucky keeps telling them not to take, but they keep ignoring him. he wants them to be professional, but Jean Harliquinn has already told them he'll be taking off once Mardis Gras starts, he's starting to suspect LF and Predetress are more than just "BFF", and Dolittle is doing just that, very little. not to mention Captain Seminole never even wated to be a super-hero... he was just roped into it by a tribal elder who performed a special ceremony.

[Muze]

i forgot about this thread. i haven't had enough sugar to come up with a good outline but i've always been a little disappointed with the original Champions team. i think they should have been a much younger (college-age) crowd of Los Angeles-based wannabe-heroes; but with powers so they aren't the Ultimate Defenders. the cast...

Nighthawk - rich club kid who matures just enough to want to make a difference in the world through superheroing. this version of the 'Champions' would be his idea. he'd use his trust fund to keep them going; keep them equiped in the finest tech and transport. i'd give Richmond a new suit; little less halloween and more combat-oriented like the Ultimate or MAX version. a guy like that would probably make sure that he didn't look like a doofus out in public.

Hellcat - if Buffy the vampire slayer had red hair and the ability to sense evil, she'd be this version of Patsy. i would want her to be both a girly girl and a real @$$-kicker.

Wonderman - if you've read the first issue of House of M, that's how Simon "Hollywood" Williams should be. Beast is the more gregarious of the two but Wonderman would still be a movie star. he's also the team strong man.

Beast - his friendship with Wonderman made Avengers at one point. i'd like to see he and Simon be the team swingers. they are on the team because it gives them something to do inbetween sleep and club hopping. that and McCoy provides much needed brains & science acumen to the team.

Valkyrie - she'd be the waitress/aspiring actress type who has her world turned upside down when Brunnhilde's spirit enters her during a date-rape incident. i figure she'd be a little less asgardian/little more modern like the Ultimates version; she'd use a staff, wear combat boots, etc. but, most importantly, she'd keep her human personality and insecurities.

Iceman - i see Drake as the kind of guy (at least back then) who had powers but no absolutely no idea what he was supposed to do with them. the 'Champions' would sort of be his Spring Break; a time to just have fun & forget your other responsibilites.

Satanna - every team should have a vamp and who better than the daughter of the devil? i think she provides a good contrast, personality-wise, to Hellcat as well. i'd go with her new younger punk look from the Witches series and she's be your standard spellcaster.

recurring characters:
Johnny Blaze - he's like the older/cooler guy who won't join their goup but continually runs into the heroes. he'd fit in on the West Coast since he's a former stuntman.

Doctor Strange - i'd like to keep the Defenders link even if i'm not a huge fan of the team. Stephen sort of monitors what they are doing because there are a growing number of Satannish-spawned threats in L.A.

Daimon Hellstromm - nuff said

can't happen now but that's the Champions team i would have wanted to see. the original series was confusing to me; 2 mutants, 1 demigod, 2 russians, and a spirit of vengeance. hmm. sounds interesting but their adventures really sucked. i'd hope that the above team would have a better rogue's gallery. maybe the Pride could even be worked in there.

[Muze]

does the Marvel West Coast have a supermax prison for supervillians? well, they need one for my next idea.

THE RANGERS

remember those stereotypically western heroes that showed up once or twice in the West Cost Avengers book? well, i do and i'd like to help place them. The Rangers would have a working relationship with this supermax prison. they'd operate as prisoner-transport escorts, guards, swat team, and "federal marshals" if a supervillain should escape. anyways, the prison would foot the bill for their training and new costumes.

Texas Twister - cocky 6'4 superhuman with heightened durability and he ability to generate, you guessed it, tornadoes. a tornado could be useful in stopping a prison riot.

Shooting Star - she was basically a costumed athlete and sharpshooter but so was Hawkeye. i think she could be kind of cool with a new look and a more diverse array of guns at her disposal. just to be different, i'd give her super-speed as well. i've just got this image of her shooting at super-speed. if you need an explanation, she was bionically-enhanced after a near fatal accident.

Red Wolf - the baddest native american/vietnam vet on the west coast. i'd change Red Wolf's look from stereotypical indian to tall mean-looking biker. he'd have some scarring on one side of his face, shades, a tattoo of a fang on his arm, pony tail, his pet wolf, and all of his original enhanced abilities (strength,speed,&tracking senses). just to make him a little scarier, he can make himself invisible to anyone not looking directly at him.

Firebird - she's basically the prison counselor on her downtime because of her deep religious faith. still has the pyrokinetic abilties as well.

2-Gun Kid - John Wayne Hatashi, a new character whose family immigrated from japan all the way to Texas when he was very young. young John became obsessed with american culture; especially westerns. and using his genius-level aptitude for mechanics, he created his own superhero identity; a sort of hi-tech cowboy. Two Gun employs timed explosives, stun pistols, self-constricting discs, and other gadgets to fight crime.

Sharon Ventura - i haven't thought of a new codename yet. i figure that she'd move out West to start over after being returned to her more human-appearance. the method used to cure her (Reed Richards uses some of his own super elastic cells to help Sharon out) leave her with a more malleable form; limited super-elasticity. this, combined, with her natural athleticism, makes her worthy for Rangers recruitment.

[DarkKnightJRK]

I recently saw a blerb on this guy in the Great Lakes Avengers named Mr. Immortal, who's abilty was that he would die and come back to life in five minutes. He's s**ted upon as a wannabe, but with some fine-tweaking, this guy could be one big badass, in my opinion.

Here's what I would do:

First, I'd nick the Mr. sirname off, instant camp. I'd call him The Immortal or just Immortal.

Second, he instantly comes back after his deaths, not in five minutes.

Third, he's been around for centries. He's never been able to physically age past 35, but never truely finds his abilities until now.

In the first arc, we wouldn't really know that he's immortal until a few issues in. We meet him as a seemingly simple guy in a slightly middle-class New York. He's engaged to marry a sweet young girl and things couldn't be better...until one of the gangs that populated the area kidnapps the both of them, rapes and then murders his fiancee while he's watching, and shoots him in the head afterwards.

The funny thing is, he immieately jumps back to life. Even when there's not enough blood to keep him alive, he's still aware. After the gang leaves he retreats to one of the sewers to figure out what has happened. After a few days, (while he's flashing back to his earlier days living in the past centries) his head wound heals up (though leaving a monsterous scar afterwards.

Maybe his brains didn't heal right, or he snapped watching his wife raped and killed, but whatever happened, he decides to go out and avenge them.

Now, you might be thinking, "this is just an immortal version of The Punisher," and you'd be right, and it makes for serious drama. You see, Punisher's thing is that he kills as many scumbags as he can until he's done over by one of them. But for Immortal--he doesn't have that luxury. He can't die. He's slowly and slowly getting deeper in his insanity, but he's still trying to protect the innocent.

It would probably have to be a MAX book, considering all the gruesome deaths Immortal would go through.

What do you guys think?

[Zoken]

But that is s***ting on the spirit of Mr. Immortal. he is supposed to be the lovable loser. Also he's the guy with all the good intentions in the world, but can't stop his friends and family from dying around him. besides, like you said, He's on the GLA. what are you going to do with the rest of them? make bad@$$ versions of them?
I can just see that badasses with the names Doorman, Flatman, Big Bertha, and Dinah Soar. I"m sorry but Mr. Immortal is great the way he is. I love what Dan Slot has done with him.

[DarkKnightJRK]

But that is s***ting on the spirit of Mr. Immortal. he is supposed to be the lovable loser. Also he's the guy with all the good intentions in the world, but can't stop his friends and family from dying around him. besides, like you said, He's on the GLA. what are you going to do with the rest of them? make bad@$$ versions of them?
I can just see that badasses with the names Doorman, Flatman, Big Bertha, and Dinah Soar. I"m sorry but Mr. Immortal is great the way he is. I love what Dan Slot has done with him.

It's just an idea, 'tis all.

Though I did try to think of something with Doorman...but my imagination failed me.

[Muze]

Elseworlds-style Heroes 4 Hire

Jim Hammond - android boss man with pyrokinetic abilities

Iron Fist - field leader updated with Temugin-level abilities with emphasis on kun lun martial arts style and discipline

Pulsar - New Orleans born girl-next-door with the ability to mimick most of the EM spectrum

Luke Cage - updated with near Wonderman-level strength

Spiderwoman - beautiful bounty hunter with enhanced strength, speed, agility, reflexes, stamina, the ability to adhere to walls, samurai training, and her own venom glands.

Black Knight - modern-day-knight/mad scientist w/ magically-imbued armor & hi-tech weapons designed to look like it came out of the dark ages

She Hulk - shrewd lawyer - party girl - and class 100 powerhouse

Ant-Man - backup electronics whiz/accomplished thief w/ cyber helmet (internet hookup) - the ability to command insects - and an antlike a.i for transport
---
Recurring Guest-Star: Hercules aka the Prince of Power


maybe if i keep saying it over and over, the series will appear out of thin air.

[Zoken]

Hero
Kyle Coolidge wanted nothing more that to blend in and fade away. all his life he was taller than everyone else, stronger. it wasn't unusual, he was just well bred so to speak. people expected more of him. high test scores because his mom was a neuro surgeoun, better athletic performance because his grandfather had once been in the Olympics, better style because he was very handsome. a lot was expected of him, one might call it the poor little rich boy situation.

well one day he figures it will all come to an end when he and his best friend get mugged on the streets of Portland. as the mugger prepares to shoot them both Kyle's skin erupts. tendrils fly from his exposed arms shoving the mugger away and grabbing the gun. however across the street a news crew had been filming a human intrest story, and seeing what happened, they rushed in. Kyle, against his will, became a media darling in the city. the News woman had even given him a cheesy name: Kraken (after a poem that details a giant squid. later on kyle findes the name even more apt as he can now breath through his skin much like a frog if he is submerged in water). well, some psycho who hates "lying mutants who fool good people by pretending to be heroes" kidnaps Kyle's little sister. Kyle has been screaming at Cameras that he is no hero. does he now have a hero in him for his sister? the boy who wants to fade away, must now stand out if he wants to protect his family.

[WuTangDisciple]

X-Men-No secondary mutations, no leather suits.

Wolverine-No savage beast, tie up a lotta loose ends.

Spider-Man-Keep Ben Reilly alive an' have him team up with Parker. Aunt May stays dead. Norman Osborn gets bumped off fer once an' fer all. NO CHAPTER ONE! I'd beat John Byrne off with a stick.

Captain America-No Volume 4. Volume 3 was goin' just fine.

X-23-Get a stronger writer with a clue on her.

Ultimate X-Men-Just...no.
Agree I do. Although X-23 was a major dissapointment.

[Anubis]

Hero
Kyle Coolidge wanted nothing more that to blend in and fade away. all his life he was taller than everyone else, stronger. it wasn't unusual, he was just well bred so to speak. people expected more of him. high test scores because his mom was a neuro surgeoun, better athletic performance because his grandfather had once been in the Olympics, better style because he was very handsome. a lot was expected of him, one might call it the poor little rich boy situation.

well one day he figures it will all come to an end when he and his best friend get mugged on the streets of Portland. as the mugger prepares to shoot them both Kyle's skin erupts. tendrils fly from his exposed arms shoving the mugger away and grabbing the gun. however across the street a news crew had been filming a human intrest story, and seeing what happened, they rushed in. Kyle, against his will, became a media darling in the city. the News woman had even given him a cheesy name: Kraken (after a poem that details a giant squid. later on kyle findes the name even more apt as he can now breath through his skin much like a frog if he is submerged in water). well, some psycho who hates "lying mutants who fool good people by pretending to be heroes" kidnaps Kyle's little sister. Kyle has been screaming at Cameras that he is no hero. does he now have a hero in him for his sister? the boy who wants to fade away, must now stand out if he wants to protect his family.


Cool Concept. :up:

[Zoken]

a national conference of mutants. a calling of civilian mutants when a new mutant registration and "re-education" law comes into effect. its lead by a speech and debate team. no X-Men, or at least the major X-men are in bit parts. this is for civilians doing a ralley. civil protest kinda thing.

[roach]

Coming Soon......
The Moon Knight Returns!

[Muze]

Ant-Man III aka 'The Ant-Men"

Tristan Kepler

Ari Kepler

Noah Kepler



height(s): 5'9"

weight(s): 160 lbs.

hair: light brown (naturally); Ari (bleached white) and Noah (dyed black)

eyes: basil

To run with the colony-angle, the Ant-Man role would be filled by 3 college-aged triplets/former child geniuses; each with their own specialty (robotics, biochemistry, and physics). they're also web developers in their part-time and maintain the Henry Pym fansite.

[DBM]

I don’t do this too often but I got another idea.

The idea is for a new, ongoing series, called Bloodstone. I decided to stick the idea on here after reading about Warren Ellis’s plans to use Elsa Bloodstone in his new team book. His description of Elsa infuriated me because I think she’s a great character with a hell of a lot of potential and he just dismisses her as an airhead who goes on adventures.

What got me thinking about Elsa Bloodstone and a series for her happened a couple months ago. I was flying out of the Louisville heading towards Baltimore when my plane was delayed. We were told it would be a couple hours. Needing to kill time, I hit the gift store to find a book to buy and read. Unfortunately I had either read or was not interested in almost all of the books they had. But I looked at one of the Silhouette Bombshell romance novels and read the back cover and it sounded interesting. It was about a young female archaeologist who discovers something in an ancient temple and people try to kill her to get it. Very Indiana Jones-ish. I bought it and read it and it wasn’t too bad. But what struck me was all of the action and adventure in it. I couldn’t help but think that romance novel would have made a great comic book. Then I thought about it more and realized that millions of young women read books just like these all of the time. If they wrote comic books like these novels, with action and romance (romance, not sex), women would probably read them. I tried to think of a comic character that would fit this mold and immediately thought of Elsa Bloodstone.

Elsa Bloodstone (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/bloodstoneelsa.htm) was introduced in a four issue miniseries titled “Bloodstone” where she learns that her father, Ulysses Bloodstone (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/bloodstoneulysses.htm), was an adventurer who had lived for thousands of years. Check out the links I gave for the full story (it’s a good read). She has very little continuity to clutter her at all since she’s only appear in those issues. She’s basically the perfect character to create from the ground up which is probably why Ellis has picked her.

Sticking with a “action romance” theme, I mapped out the basic idea for her series.

The ongoing series picks up about a year after the end of the miniseries. Elsa is 19/20ish and is in college. The relationship she was starting with Tomas Dluga (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/bloodstoneelsa.htm#Tomas) in the miniseries has turned into a close friendship (best comparison would be Xander and Buffy). Elsa has decided to go into an archaeology/museum studies program after her interest is peaked by her fathers collections and life.

Elise Bloodstone (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/bloodstoneelsa.htm#Elise), Elsa’s mother is still running the museum that they turned Bloodstone Manor into. Elise has given birth to the child she was pregnant with at the end of the miniseries, a boy named Elliot (continuing a little bit with the naming convention of the family). The father of the child was not revealed in the miniseries and will be an ongoing mystery/subplot in this new series.

As the series gets started, Elsa’s mother and Adam (Frankenstein’s monster who was Ulysses’ caretaker for magical items and now works for Elise) discover Ulysses’ journals. Elsa has started reading them and learning about all of the things her father did throughout his 10,000 year life. At her mother’s prompting, Elsa has also started keeping a journal. Almost all of the stories will be told as recollections in Elsa’s journal which will be shown as caption’s in the comic. This will allow the comic to provide the “internal monologue” that is so common in romance novels. It allows us to know Elsa’s feelings as we see her performing the action.

Using the journals as our basis for the context of the story also allows for one other thing that I think would be interesting; occasional single issue stories that add to her father’s history. Once every 4-5 issues, we’d have a stand alone issue where Elsa is reading Ulysses’ journal. As she is reading it, we the readers are seeing it. This will provide a easy break between story arcs (damn you writing for trade), allow our main character to learn about her father and see the connections between her and him, and provide a more guy-centric story occasionally. Remembering all along of course that Elsa is the main character and not Ulysses. The Ulysses stories are only going to be told if they relate to her somehow.

Ulysses was a monster hunter mostly. He dealt with the supernatural a lot. Elsa’s miniseries did much the same, so I’d stick with that as the basic premise of the action. I’d delve into the supernatural and mythological areas of Marvel Universe throughout this series because of the Bloodstone legacy as well as Elsa’s archaeological studies.

A specific story I’d touch on would be a one where Elsa has dealing with the Priests ( http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/khonshum.htm#priest) of Khonshu ( http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/khonshum.htm), probably as a “legacy” storyline because her father (in an yet untold story) had dealings with them thousands of years ago. This could possibly be a Moon Knight crossover, but, I’d rather he just be alluded to rather than actually be in the story because this would create continuity/history within the Marvel Universe, but not force a guest spot or crossover.

Above all though, the series would on the romance side of “action romance.” From the very beginning we will introduce a romantic foil for Elsa. One who has an some mystery around him that over time will come to light. A man her own age, who seems to be a stand-up kind of guy, but obviously has something to hide.

Something else that would happen would be to tone down the T&A that was evident in the miniseries. This ongoing series is meant to be a comic that’s more accessible to women, so getting rid of the gratuitous images would be vital. This doesn’t mean that Elsa won’t still be sexy. She’s still a young, hot woman. It’s just that she won’t be so over the top.

That’s my idea. I haven’t put a whole lot of thought into it yet, but I think it sounds a lot better than having Elsa join a team that works for a stupidly-named acronym agency (H.A.T.E) and working for a stupidly named person (Dirk Anger) written by a writer who degrades the character (Ellis).