MPAA Rating (Note: Officially PG-13)

[Elektra_Kirigi]

Will this be R, because I am interested in seeing it, and can't if it is R

[BIGGUN]

its being aimed for PG13.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I think it might turn out to be like Daredevil maybe. PG-13 theatrical release and R Director's Cut.

[FlameHead]

And that would satisfy me very nicely.

I was never one to care about the rating of the film before it came out... until the production of this movie. It was very heavily debated on the boards... and I can understand why. Ghost Rider is an image that has to be made right. Most people believe that image can only be made right with an R rating. I don't know if I agree with that, or not. I do agree that our boy is pretty violent... and the violence is part of his image.

I think what's going to help make this a PG 13 is the fact that Ghost Rider doesn't kill... or more than likely wont in this film. He'll inflict his Penance stare on his enemies... immobilizing them with the pain of thier own sins... not kill. No kill means no R, doesn't it?

I don't know. I think I'll just go back to not caring about the rating and just watch the freakin' thing.

[Caliber]

I hope its rated R because I don't think parents want to take their kids, thinking it's a movie for the kids.

[Master Kenobi]

I hope it is rated R. But it will more than likely be PG-13.

That's alright though.

[FlameHead]

I hope its rated R because I don't think parents want to take their kids, thinking it's a movie for the kids.

Parents wouldn't likely take a kid to a movie like this anyway. The subject matter is not family oriented, no matter the rating.

[arnimzoloft]

mark stephen johnson said he was going for a pg-13 release. he said he was gonna be clever about getting away with it as opposed to an r

[FlameHead]

You dont really have to be clever really. You just can't have nudity, obsesssive swearing and the brutal killing of humans w/ blood and gore. Notice I say humans. With demons or other out of world beings can be bludgeoned to death without an R rating.

[TheDarkRevenger]

Giving that Constantine got an R, I have a feeling this will too.

[BIGGUN]

Giving that Constantine got an R, I have a feeling this will too.

they've already stated it was going to be PG13. if the MPAA finds something objectionable they will cut it in order to get that rating.
if that happens and if the movie is successful expect a directors cut later on

[LordSimen]

Hellboy got PG-13, so, it just depends upon how they approach the film.

[citizen_d]

Well Australia has an M15+ which is 'recommended' for people aged fifteen and over, and then there is the MA15+ which is 'restricted' to people fifteen and over (and yes, by law you are supposed to produce ID to show you are over fifteen if questioned when purchasing the ticket), so there is a little more flexibility there for us.

D

[AmerikazMostWanted]

will just all have to wait till we get a directors cut thats gonna be along time away :(

[redlion2]

It'll probably be PG-13. Although I definately wouldn't have mind an R rating.

[Night]

I think because of Constatine Marvel wont be to afraid of making it are. Constatine is making a good deal of money. I think it should be R because then they don't have to cut it down so much and make it a dumb movie.

[Caliber]

I think GR has to be rated R because it would disappoint alot of people if, it wasn't.

[FlameHead]

I'm not really gonna worry about the rating personally... but I did pick PG-13 in this poll. I figure it's just as well to support the decision that has already been made.

[Caliber]

I think it shoould be rated R because I personally don't think most children should see it. It would be hard trying to explain GR doing good with something evil.

[MarvelMovies]

Steve Norrington and David Goyer both backed out of Ghost Rider in 2003 when the studio wanted a PG-13 rating... so I'm thinking PG-13.

[Night]

Think of how much stuff they cut out of DD to be PG-13? I mean the Director's Cut was almost a rated PG-13, from what I saw. I didn't think that it should have been R! But that is my view. I hope Ghost Rider can be PG-13 and have everything in it, but it's so much darker then DD and DD was edited bad because of the PG-13 thing. So I hope someone has learned a lesson!

[FlameHead]

I think people are getting too caught up on the rating really. There isn't htat much difference in the two. I mean, if they don't swear, have vivid sex scenes or human gore then it's wont be R. I don't know about most but I don't need the f bomb 80 times like Blade Trinity, Ghost Rider doesn't have a penis do have vivid sex with and brutality doesn't need gore... it just needs pain.

Plus, they aren't targeting the same crowd as Spider-Man did. Kids are not going to go to this movie, no matter what the rating.

[AmerikazMostWanted]

ghost rider has no penis? poor guy :(

[BIGGUN]

ghost rider has no penis? poor guy :(

Why do you think the dude is so pissed off all the time? heh

[AmerikazMostWanted]

haha ya i was gonna say that so pissed hes flaming mad

[FlameHead]

Yeah, it's sad that he has no penis to vent his frustrations with... especially when all the ladies find him so hot. Ha.

[Lord Blackbolt]

Cause with the success of Constantine, which was originally suppose to be PG13...then later turned to R....it proved that a comic movie based on "hellish" tones and r-rated can be a success.

You think Constantine will effect the marketing of Ghostrider now.

[Morg]

GR should be R rated too but doubt it :(

[BIGGUN]

No reason to have it rated R....making Ghost Rider is still very possible as a PG13 film. Hellboy proved this....
Even the comics were aimed at a younger audience...people seem to forget this. it was no Hellbazer thats for sure.

Although i believe GR could still be successful as a R rated film it would be even more successful as a PG13.

The important thing is that they keep it serious and not campy or aimed for kids. from what ive been hearing (especially from MSJ) that certainly is the case.
they can keep it violent while still keeping the gore and language to a minimum. Lord of the Rings is a great example of this. lots of orcs were cut to ribbons which were shown briefly in quick shots on screen. i dont need to see someone eviscerated in slo-mo to know that hes dieing a horrible death.

[TheVileOne]

Eh, Constantine was a pretty tame R-rated movie I think. All I'm saying, most recently I've seen PG-13 flicks with more provocative content. I just hope the PG-13 rating doesn't hinder anything for Ghost Rider like it did for Daredevil.

[BIGGUN]

Eh, Constantine was a pretty tame R-rated movie I think. All I'm saying, most recently I've seen PG-13 flicks with more provocative content. I just hope the PG-13 rating doesn't hinder anything for Ghost Rider like it did for Daredevil.


I agree..from the reviews that i read they said Constantine had some really disturbing imagery in the film. the film had some creepy moments....but nowhere near the level reviewers said it was.
i actually read one article by a critic who said that todays PG13s get away w/ alot more than some R rated films a few years ago. pretty interesting...

[Lord Blackbolt]

Well another point is...Nick Cage has had many r-rated movies that have made over 100 million. I think he has a much wider adult viewership. Plus...as much as I loved Hellboy...it didn't do super well. IMO...Nick Cage alone will probably make this movie 70 million alone.

[FlameHead]

Just to warn before it happens... gonna try and get this one merged with the other couple of rating threads. Keep an eye out for that in the coming days.

I agree..from the reviews that i read they said Constantine had some really disturbing imagery in the film. the film had some creepy moments....but nowhere near the level reviewers said it was.
i actually read one article by a critic who said that todays PG13s get away w/ alot more than some R rated films a few years ago. pretty interesting...

I'm not sure why Contantine had an R rating. I've seen worse on screen. YOu're right about the imagery, it wasn't that disturbing at all. Maybe it was the topics discussed. They probably wanted to keep the youngin's senstive beliefs in tact.

[BIGGUN]

Well another point is...Nick Cage has had many r-rated movies that have made over 100 million. I think he has a much wider adult viewership. Plus...as much as I loved Hellboy...it didn't do super well. IMO...Nick Cage alone will probably make this movie 70 million alone.

Well my point wasnt how Hellboy did at the box office it was the subject matter that was covered in the film. for a PG13 they did a mighty good job at staying fairly close to the comic but not making it into a kid-fest. it had lots of monster gore and dealings w/ supernatural menaces. had quite a bit of human deaths too....they were offscreen of course but they were there.
HB had a good opening weekend but i think it didnt do too well afterwards. there are a few reasons for this of course but i doubt it had to do w/ it being PG13. IMO a PG13 rating actually helped Hellboy ....it allowed more folks to go see it. Also i think it was rather interesting GR got the greenlight the same weekend that Hellboy opened. may have had something to do w/ it too.
But i do agree about Cage...he will certainly help getting butts in seats. one of my arguements for getting Cage was for that very reason. Also when you get a top name like Cage involved it tends to get other top names involved as well not to mention help increasing a film's budget. :up:

[RedIsNotBlue]

I wouldn't mind a PG-13 theatrical release and then an R director's cut on dvd.

[BIGGUN]

I wouldn't mind a PG-13 theatrical release and then an R director's cut on dvd.

I think all of us wouldnt mind that at all :D

[RedIsNotBlue]

I think all of us wouldnt mind that at all :D

Well some people are pissed that the movie has a strong chance for a theatrical PG-13 release.

[Night]

Like theVileOne said I just hope they don't edit it because they want a PG-13 movie. If you are going to cut 30 min out of the movie make it R!

[BIGGUN]

Well some people are pissed that the movie has a strong chance for a theatrical PG-13 release.

heh...i was referring to the directors cut...but yeah there are a few who think R is the only way to go.

[BIGGUN]

Like theVileOne said I just hope they don't edit it because they want a PG-13 movie. If you are going to cut 30 min out of the movie make it R!

if they shoot the film w/ a PG13 in mind they can deliberately get away w/ some stuff. they can find ways to get around the censors while still maintaining a PG13.
if they shoot it w/ a R rating in mind and then cut it to fit a PG13 then yeah the film will more than likely suffer. Daredevil was a good example of this....

[RedIsNotBlue]

if they shoot the film w/ a PG13 in mind they can deliberately get away w/ some stuff. they can find ways to get around the censors while still maintaining a PG13.
if they shoot it w/ a R rating in mind and then cut it to fit a PG13 then yeah the film will more than likely suffer. Daredevil was a good example of this....

I hope MSJ does it right this time around. I know Foster was the main reason for the editing of Daredevil but MSJ needs to step up this time. I know he browses around on here on occasion so I think he understands and recognizes what the fans want and need to see. :ghost:

[BIGGUN]

I hope MSJ does it right this time around. I know Foster was the main reason for the editing of Daredevil but MSJ needs to step up this time. I know he browses around on here on occasion so I think he understands and recognizes what the fans want and need to see. :ghost:


Wasnt some of the decisions made by Foster in regards to the editing was due to the pressure from the suits at 20th Cent. Fox? that was the impression that i got. Sony should be better i hope...they seem to give a bit more freedom to the makers of their films.
But yeah i think both MSJ and Foster know they have to deliver on this one...especially since they have Cage w/ a decent cast and crew lined up.

[FlameHead]

When it comes down to so many people to make a film, it's hard to blame anything on just one person.

I have all the faith in the world in MSJ, no matter who it is that's baking him. I think he'll have enough weight, along with Nic to get anything done. Fans will make this movie happen and that's the important thing.

[Green Arrow]

Just out curiosity because if anyone remembers the whole DD debatacle, the Director's Cut was far superior to the Theatrical and I hate to see that happen again :(

[BIGGUN]

there is already a thread on this....
go here: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163728

[Lord Blackbolt]

How much is the budget for the money BTW....does anyone know if they have given the movie more money

[BIGGUN]

How much is the budget for the money BTW....does anyone know if they have given the movie more money

i dont think its a matter of giving the film more money....i think they have already established a set budget awhile back. right now several sources are saying its at least 100,000,000.00 US dollars.
im sure its going to end up being a little more once marketing comes into the picture.

[FlameHead]

100 mill is nice. I like 100 mill. I'm sure you're right about it being upped for marketing reasons BG... especially when the studio execs see how freakin' cool this character is.

For more talk on the budget, check out the following thread...
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152592

[EternalMaster]

I'm sure that ghost Rider can get away with a PG-13. The comics themselves were never really graphic. The worst part is when his face melts off, really. The rest of the time, Ghost Rider pretty much does PG-13 stuff. He doesn't dismember people. He just breaks their bones. He doesn't kill needlessly. He only kills the bad guys.

And sure, he's a demon from hell, but he fights on the good side.

[FlameHead]

If the flesh melting is something that will make this movie an R, then it needs to be an R. I know they're not going to make it an R but they better have that flesh melting transformation in there. Graphic or not, it has to be there.

[MarvelMovies]

Avi Arad say PG-13 all the way...

So, looks like they're still going with PG-13.. over R.

[BIGGUN]

Avi Arad say PG-13 all the way...

So, looks like they're still going with PG-13.. over R.

im not worried...they will figure how to get around that PG13. as long as they dont shoot it as a R and then cut it down to a PG13. would be cool though if they shoot some xtra gory or violent scenes for a director's cut dvd :up:

[FlameHead]

Yeah, shooting for R would not be a good idea. All the great scenes may be R and then they'll have to cut them... leaving the movie useless and bland. I agree that some extra shots, just in case, can be done though. Or maybe shoot for 2 cuts... as most movies are made with DVD in mind nowadays anyway.

[BIGGUN]

Yeah, shooting for R would not be a good idea. All the great scenes may be R and then they'll have to cut them... leaving the movie useless and bland. I agree that some extra shots, just in case, can be done though. Or maybe shoot for 2 cuts... as most movies are made with DVD in mind nowadays anyway.


I know thats what George Romero is doing w/ his latest zombie film "Land of the Dead". they are shooting an all out gore fest for a uncut/unrated dvd release later on but at the same time shooting "tamer scenes" for the rated R theatrical release.
Dont know if MSJ would have the time to do that but it would be cool..

[FlameHead]

Yeah, that would eat up a lot of time... and budget. Maybe that's what 100 million is for? Would be nice to see two versions of the film though, be them R rated or not. That'll give us something more to wait for when waiting for the DVD... not that the special features that'll be packed wouldn't be enough.

[RedIsNotBlue]

PG-13 in theatres...more money. R on DVD...still more money...haha.

[FlameHead]

Sounds good to me... and I know money sounds good to them. Money, Money, Money...

[Warrior]

I agree that it should be PG-13 with cut scenes but I wouldn't mind it being R as long as the make it look more realistic.

[Zrthsgr]

I could care less what they rate it, I'm there regardless.

But I voted pg-13 because I feel more people will see it that way and I don't think its neccesary for it to be r to be good.

[FlameHead]

I'm not sure if I have done so yet but, welcome to the Hype Warrior and Zrthsgr. Hopefully we'll see you both around the GR section often.

[Arsh]

Do you think Ghost Rider will be rated 'R' or 'PG-13'? I hope it'll be rated R, in the same vein as The Punisher and Blade, as he's a dark hero. I'd rather it isn't a PG-13 movie like Spider-Man. What do you guys say?

[BIGGUN]

this was talked about awhile back. they already agreed to make it PG13...GR is one of those unique comic characters that can be done under either rating...where as the Punisher is more suited to be done as an R.
just look how dark and violent some recent PG13 films were...Grudge, The Ring, Lord of the Rings trilogy, and even the most classic horror film of all ...Jaws was rated w/ a mere PG in the mid 70s. im not concerned about this too much...but rather on the more important aspects like the story and acting

[Mr Nick]

I don't mind that it won't be as 'hard' as originally conceived. Ghost Rider beats the crap out of bad guys; he doesn't hack them into tiny pieces, and he's got the fantastic penance stare, so you don't need blood and guts. Having said that, it'd be nice if they filmed some harder stuff for release as a Director's Cut DVD like they did with Daredevil.:rolleyes:

[FlameHead]

Bump Bumperoo

[FlameHead]

Yeah, this was a heavily debated topic. There is a thread here w/ a poll, which I've just bumped to the top of the list for you guys... or you can click the following;

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163047

This'll probably be merged with that... just so you know.

[Acepayne]

If the flesh melting is something that will make this movie an R, then it needs to be an R. I know they're not going to make it an R but they better have that flesh melting transformation in there. Graphic or not, it has to be there.

I'm sure it will be pg-13. I mean look at Van Helsing it showed a part where some guy just rips his flesh open to turn into a werewolf. That was pg-13. I'm sure Ghost Rider will be easily a pg-13 movie as long as it isn't really graphic.

[Weadazoid]

If the flesh melting is something that will make this movie an R, then it needs to be an R. I know they're not going to make it an R but they better have that flesh melting transformation in there. Graphic or not, it has to be there.


I don't think the flesh on his face has to melt away per say. But I think it can be creepy and frightening even without it. Something like the Human Torch effect with a clean scull emerging from the flames


Then again think about Raiders of the Lost Arc

That was PG right? Didn't the Nazis faces melt away in that one at the end, I think their eyeballs even fall out.

Look at the face tear sequence in Poltergeist (infront of the Mirror) that movie some how got a PG rateing even though it was hella scary.


Scull faces even melting flesh don't always equate to R, it is violence and gore and brutality and guns that usualy result in R.

oh and sex don't forget sex, If SIn City didn't have all the topless girls and sexual content it probubly would have been PG 13.

[AmerikazMostWanted]

yeah but that was clay , a flesh melting effect today with the new technology would be to graphic

[Weadazoid]

yeah but that was clay , a flesh melting effect today with the new technology would be to graphic


It is still the same concept though.

The Sequence in Poltergiest was at the time perfect FX, and the sequence at the end of Raiders felt the same. The makers of Poltergiest had to appeal (the the MPAA) and won, without changeing the movie.

It would be easy to make the same claims when apllying for a rating of PG 13.


Just becasue the SFX has now gone digital it still doesnt change the concept, the face melts off.

Look at Pirates of the Caribean

[Acepayne]

Maybe it doesn't have to be graphic when his face melts off. I mean look at the Dave Matthews Band music video "I did it" when that black guys face melted off. If they did it like that then they can get away with a pg-13 movie.

[Chris Wallace]

I say "R". I consider it horror, & want his transformations to be all-out, which they really can't do under PG-13. I feel the biggest mistake they made w/"Spawn" was going for PG-13, especially so soon after the animated show hit. Don't repeat it. Why try to make a kid-friendly movie based on a concept that isn't? Kids don't read "Ghost Rider". And they shouldn't.

[FlameHead]

I don't think the flesh on his face has to melt away per say. But I think it can be creepy and frightening even without it. Something like the Human Torch effect with a clean scull emerging from the flames

Then again think about Raiders of the Lost Arc

That was PG right? Didn't the Nazis faces melt away in that one at the end, I think their eyeballs even fall out.

Look at the face tear sequence in Poltergeist (infront of the Mirror) that movie some how got a PG rateing even though it was hella scary.

Scull faces even melting flesh don't always equate to R, it is violence and gore and brutality and guns that usualy result in R.

oh and sex don't forget sex, If SIn City didn't have all the topless girls and sexual content it probubly would have been PG 13.

Sin City's R came from a lot more than the Nudity. That movie was more brutal than pretty much anything I've ever seen. The sex wasn't all that brought that movie up in rating.

Your right on Raiders though. I completly forgot about that.

[Weadazoid]

Flamehead, I don't think Sin City's Violenc is on par with say, Saving Private Ryan, Platoon, and even Kill Bill.


Sin City was violent, but it was violence in fun, even the castration those sequences were not meant to turn stomacks, nothing get's to me more then seeing Bunny, use the but end of his shot gun to pop the guys (poor guy with one leg) head open in Platoon.

[FlameHead]

The sentence "violence in Fun" is reason enough to consider it more violent than any of those movies you mention. The very fact that they made light of the extreame violence was what was edgy about this flick.

[Weadazoid]

I still say seeing Bunny (Kevin Dillon) pop the kids head open or the guy gripping up his arm and walking with it in Saving Private Ryan was more gut wrenching then anything Sin City provided

I put the Violence in SIn City more on par with Japanease anime like Ninja Scroll and live action flicks like Kill Bill V1 & 2

Think about in Resevoir dogs dued cuts the guys ear off that is R rated Violence.

Or in Bad Liutenant the, Harvey Kietels Rape sequence come on.

Or Pulp Ficiton the Sequence with the Hill Billies (worse and far more graphic then Diliverance)

SIn City just was stylized too much it almost had beauty to it, much as I view Ninja Scroll. Look many how many times do you get to see a giant Rock guy with a huge weapon stuck in his head try to use it to kill the hero?

[Mr Nick]

:D I still say seeing Bunny (Kevin Dillon) pop the kids head open or the guy gripping up his arm and walking with it in Saving Private Ryan was more gut wrenching then anything Sin City provided

I put the Violence in SIn City more on par with Japanease anime like Ninja Scroll and live action flicks like Kill Bill V1 & 2

Think about in Resevoir dogs dued cuts the guys ear off that is R rated Violence.

Or in Bad Liutenant the, Harvey Kietels Rape sequence come on.

Or Pulp Ficiton the Sequence with the Hill Billies (worse and far more graphic then Diliverance)

SIn City just was stylized too much it almost had beauty to it, much as I view Ninja Scroll. Look many how many times do you get to see a giant Rock guy with a huge weapon stuck in his head try to use it to kill the hero?

Ah, Ninja Scroll. I bloody love that film.

"Gemmaaaaaa! Burn in your golden hell!!!!"

Sorry, what were we discussing?

:D

[FlameHead]

I still say seeing Bunny (Kevin Dillon) pop the kids head open or the guy gripping up his arm and walking with it in Saving Private Ryan was more gut wrenching then anything Sin City provided

I put the Violence in SIn City more on par with Japanease anime like Ninja Scroll and live action flicks like Kill Bill V1 & 2

Think about in Resevoir dogs dued cuts the guys ear off that is R rated Violence.

Or in Bad Liutenant the, Harvey Kietels Rape sequence come on.

Or Pulp Ficiton the Sequence with the Hill Billies (worse and far more graphic then Diliverance)

SIn City just was stylized too much it almost had beauty to it, much as I view Ninja Scroll. Look many how many times do you get to see a giant Rock guy with a huge weapon stuck in his head try to use it to kill the hero?

The violence in each of those movies was brutal, I agree. I wasn't really comparing Sin City to anything else; I was mearly saying the R came from the extreame violence, not just the nudity.

Violence is Violence. I personally find it worse to watch sometime violent and laugh at it then it is to watch something violent and feel sorry for the victem. Stylized or not, any type of violence is not something we should take lightly.

[Darth Elektra]

What do you guys think Ghost riders rating will be? R or Pg-13?
Do you guys think it will have Nudity?
We all know that Mark wanted DD to be rated R,it was the studio that cut it down to a pg-13 rating!

[totalpackage59]

I think you'll find that this has been discussed in another thread & the rating is PG13

[Elektra_Kirigi]

What do you guys think Ghost riders rating will be? R or Pg-13?
Do you guys think it will have Nudity?
We all know that Mark wanted DD to be rated R,it was the studio that cut it down to a pg-13 rating!

Darth????


But anyways, Marvel and MSJ have said that it will be PG-13 and they no that now so they film a PG-13 movie not an R and ppl get upset.

[FlameHead]

A movie doesn't have to be R to be good, even a Ghost Rider one. I have complete faith in a PG-13.

[Kuato]

Yeah Dude I wish there was nudity too( Ahhh...Eva) and if any comic based flick could really deliver an R rating it would be Ghost Rider but MSJ has stated that it will be PG-13. That's cool though I have faith in the project. There are too many other awesome factors to get worked up over the rating. Of course I heard a rumour that a love scene between Cage and Mendes was cut out, though I don't know if it was filmed or cut out of the script prior to filming. Though in every aspect I would imagine this film will push the limits of the PG-13 rating.

[Darth Elektra]

Darth????


But anyways, Marvel and MSJ have said that it will be PG-13 and they no that now so they film a PG-13 movie not an R and ppl get upset.

Yea,its me,Im Back! I like your avaitor(spell?) wow,GR fans dont sound upset,I know us DD fans were upset! and you got it right,Eva...

[FlameHead]

Yeah Dude I wish there was nudity too( Ahhh...Eva) and if any comic based flick could really deliver an R rating it would be Ghost Rider but MSJ has stated that it will be PG-13. That's cool though I have faith in the project. There are too many other awesome factors to get worked up over the rating. Of course I heard a rumour that a love scene between Cage and Mendes was cut out, though I don't know if it was filmed or cut out of the script prior to filming. Though in every aspect I would imagine this film will push the limits of the PG-13 rating.

I'm happy that there is no needless love scene in this flick. You can do everything you wanna do to express the love and emotion between 2 characters without having a love scene. Yes, Eva is lovely to look at but we can all use our imaginations for what her birthday suit looks like... though I doubt we'd ever see any nudity anyway.

[Kuato]

No love scene that involves Eva would ever be needless :)

But yeah...

[Triligors]

Love scene pushing PG-13 limit?

You see alot of PG-13 films? Fog had a steamy love scene (pun intended). Daredevil had a love scene. All Bond films have love scenes.

So, a love scene pushing PG-13 limits?

Not in the slightest, unless you're talking about seeing private parts and using the kamasatra- otherwise no love scene would constitute PG-13 as well as it was arfully presented. By artfully, I mean in a way in which we know what is happening but can't really see anything.

[FlameHead]

You do remember that the love scene in DareDevil was removed in the far superior directors cut right? Why, because it was never intended to be a love story between Elektra and DD and wouldn't have been if the studio didn't want to turn it into that.

Nudity or not, I really don't think a love scene is needed in Ghost Rider. It would do nothing to progress the story, which as everyone knows is about Johnny Blaze and the struggle with the demon inside.

[Kuato]

When I said that I thought that Ghost Rider would push the limits of the PG-13 rating I was not talking about nudity or love scenes...just that the movie will be as "hardcore" as possible in terms of overall content. Like Batman Begins was very dark and scary and surprisingly violent for a PG-13 rated film.

[FlameHead]

Ah, now I gotcha. I'm sure that we'll see some pretty hardcore stuff, especially when GR is facin' off against the demons. He is a brutal character and I'm faithful that they'll show that in the best way possible.

[Darth Elektra]

I just want GR,to be Dark,Viloent,And Hard Core!

[Darth Elektra]

Ah, now I gotcha. I'm sure that we'll see some pretty ######## stuff, especially when GR is facin' off against the demons. He is a brutal character and I'm faithful that they'll show that in the best way possible.

Exactly!

[theescapeclause]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would be kinda pissed if it was rated R. Let's not forget that Ghost Rider doen't kill humans. (There was that one time, but that was an accident.) but I'm sure the demon on demon action will be pretty intense, as I don't think the MPAA had much trouble with non-human violence. (i.e. AVP) I read they goyer script, and my biggest complaint was the excessive violence. And as much as I'd love to see it, a sex scene has no place in a movie about a demon biker from hell. But most importantly, we want as many people to see this as possible right? The more people see it, the more likley we are to get sequels, new comics, games ect... and an R rating would make it hard for some people to see it. Ummm.... I guess that's all I have to say.

ps. Not to sound like a perv, but in regards to the Eva birthday suit comment, check out Training Day. It's short, but wonderfull.....

[Darth Elektra]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would be kinda pissed if it was rated R. Let's not forget that Ghost Rider doen't kill humans. (There was that one time, but that was an accident.) but I'm sure the demon on demon action will be pretty intense, as I don't think the MPAA had much trouble with non-human violence. (i.e. AVP) I read they goyer script, and my biggest complaint was the excessive violence. And as much as I'd love to see it, a sex scene has no place in a movie about a demon biker from hell. But most importantly, we want as many people to see this as possible right? The more people see it, the more likley we are to get sequels, new comics, games ect... and an R rating would make it hard for some people to see it. Ummm.... I guess that's all I have to say.

I know what your saying,I want a sequel to,Its just I want the movie to stay true.

ps. Not to sound like a perv, but in regards to the Eva birthday suit comment, check out Training Day. It's short, but wonderfull.....
Yep,you got that right,short but sweet...

[FlameHead]

I've seen Training Day but I can't remember the part you're speakin' of... so I'm going to go rent it right now!! I kid, I kid. I'm sure I've had some really nice dreams after seeing it and that will have to suffice.

[Darth Elektra]

The "part" is more towards the end,like 3/4 of the movie's done gone by,It's not that long compared to other scene's.

[Mr. Freeze]

I hate to sounds like an ******* here but oh well here it goess


Now iam a big fan of Ghost Rider.. not ad big as Flamehead or some of the others on these boards but i do have to say one thing

whetre you like it or not Ghost Rider is not gonnna make Spider-man,X-men or Fantasttic Four type numbers..so i thinkl they should try and push for an r rating anyways because pg 13 is not gonna help a movie like this make 200 mil

[U.S War Machine]

it will get a 2 star rating

[FlameHead]

I hate to sounds like an ******* here but oh well here it goess

Now iam a big fan of Ghost Rider.. not ad big as Flamehead or some of the others on these boards but i do have to say one thing

whetre you like it or not Ghost Rider is not gonnna make Spider-man,X-men or Fantasttic Four type numbers..so i thinkl they should try and push for an r rating anyways because pg 13 is not gonna help a movie like this make 200 mil

Actually an R rating will restrict a lot of people from getting to see the movie and therefor will hinder it from makin' a lot of moola. Half the reason why they want it PG 13 is to open in up to a broader audience.

[Kuato]

"Ghost Rider is not gonnna make Spider-man,X-men or Fantasttic Four type numbers"


Now I'll grant you the fact that it is not gonna make $300 to $400 million I.E Spider Man and it may not make as much as X2. But it absolutely has a fantastic chance to make more than the turd that was Fantastic Four. I mean let's think about it...Fantastic Four was a bad movie that had negative press leading up to its release and had mediocre word of mouth and no real stars to speak of yet still managed to snag $154 million domestically. Which is shocking for a movie that bad.

Ghost Rider has Nicolas Cage, Eva Mendes, Peter Fonda and what would appear to be a very nice supporting cast. Ghost Rider has plenty of time to have FX be completed, editing etc. etc. Add in that Sony Pictures flat out knows what to do with superhero properties (See Spider-Man and Hellboy) and I think you certainly have a recipe for success. Especially if X3 turns out as bad as many are fearing and depending on what happens with Superman then Ghost Rider could very easily be one of the biggest movies of next summer.

[Darth Elektra]

"Ghost Rider is not gonnna make Spider-man,X-men or Fantasttic Four type numbers"


Now I'll grant you the fact that it is not gonna make $300 to $400 million I.E Spider Man and it may not make as much as X2. But it absolutely has a fantastic chance to make more than the turd that was Fantastic Four. I mean let's think about it...Fantastic Four was a bad movie that had negative press leading up to its release and had mediocre word of mouth and no real stars to speak of yet still managed to snag $154 million domestically. Which is shocking for a movie that bad.

Ghost Rider has Nicolas Cage, Eva Mendes, Peter Fonda and what would appear to be a very nice supporting cast. Ghost Rider has plenty of time to have FX be completed, editing etc. etc. Add in that Sony Pictures flat out knows what to do with superhero properties (See Spider-Man and Hellboy) and I think you certainly have a recipe for success. Especially if X3 turns out as bad as many are fearing and depending on what happens with Superman then Ghost Rider could very easily be one of the biggest movies of next summer.

Well I dont think that many people think that X-e is going to turn out bad,but unless the superman trailer is good,I probably wont see Superman! Ghost Rider needs to move back to august,so it wont have to play with POTC2. But yes Ghost Rider could end up in the top 10 easy! top 5,I personally dont think so,because of X-3 and POTC,plus MI3 and The Da vinco code.

[Kuato]

I don't know man...if you read the news items or the boards at sites like Chud.com or Joblo.com and AICN there certainly seems to be a general feeling that if X3 turns out good it would be more surprising than if it turns out to be a ****ty movie. I mean you know Brett Ratner is directing it and that it is being RUSHED through production right? Also if you believer the rumours half the reason X3 is being rushed is just so Fox can get it out before Superman and stick it Singer.

I have posted this before...but there really was some interesting discussions about the subject here:

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85482


Mission Impossible 3 could really go either way as well...despite the first two films success the overall quality of the films could be debated and is anybody really clamoring for another sequel? And when will the whole Crazy Tom thing come back to bite Cruise? I agree with you on POTC and The DaVinci Code...those are guaranteed blockbusters.

[Chris Wallace]

A movie doesn't have to be R to be good, even a Ghost Rider one. I have complete faith in a PG-13.
Actually the PG-13 rating hurts my expectations a little bit. Some movies-despite being based on comic books & surrounding costumed characters-should not be made family friendly. I wouldn't want a PG-13 Punisher or Crow movie, for example. I still think that was their biggest mistake w/"Spawn". They watered it down & it just went nowhere. And there's no need for it. Kids don't read "Ghost Rider". I won't let my kids read Ghost Rider. It's a mature theme & should be handled accordingly. :ghost:

[Darth Elektra]

I don't know man...if you read the news items or the boards at sites like Chud.com or Joblo.com and AICN there certainly seems to be a general feeling that if X3 turns out good it would be more surprising than if it turns out to be a ****ty movie. I mean you know Brett Ratner is directing it and that it is being RUSHED through production right? Also if you believer the rumours half the reason X3 is being rushed is just so Fox can get it out before Superman and stick it Singer.

I have posted this before...but there really was some interesting discussions about the subject here:

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85482


Mission Impossible 3 could really go either way as well...despite the first two films success the overall quality of the films could be debated and is anybody really clamoring for another sequel? And when will the whole Crazy Tom thing come back to bite Cruise? I agree with you on POTC and The DaVinci Code...those are guaranteed blockbusters.

Well you are right when you say there rushing it,and that really hurt Elektra,and I have heard rumors of cyclops and Night crawler not returning,So it may not be quite as good as I hope. MI3,I think your right on that to,it could go either way,I cant wait to see it because I like JJ abrams. and even POTC may not do as good.Opening weekend it'll sky-rocket but if its stupid or not quite as funny it may not surpass the sequel. So Ghost Rider has alot of potenial! I guess will just have to wait and see.

[FlameHead]

Actually the PG-13 rating hurts my expectations a little bit. Some movies-despite being based on comic books & surrounding costumed characters-should not be made family friendly. I wouldn't want a PG-13 Punisher or Crow movie, for example. I still think that was their biggest mistake w/"Spawn". They watered it down & it just went nowhere. And there's no need for it. Kids don't read "Ghost Rider". I won't let my kids read Ghost Rider. It's a mature theme & should be handled accordingly. :ghost:

I can understand why you'd want an R rating for Ghost Rider and perhaps an R rated movie would be interesting but there wouldn't be all that much difference. I personally have faith that a PG-13 rating will deliver everything we want because again, Ghost Rider does not kill humans. He'll still be brutal in his vengeance and the movie will be dark so, that's all we really need. The Punisher is much different as he does kill humans and will hopefully be Marvels first R movie. If any movie should be, it's that.

I'm not sure about your statement on kids reading Ghost Rider though. It has always (up until the current run) been on the shelves along with every other comic out there. Kids read it. I've been readin' them since I was an early teen and I know others who started earlier... which also gives me faith in the PG-13. If the comics weren't rated for adults then the movie doesn't have to be.

[thakey]

ghost rider is planned to be pg13 right??that kinda sucks for me cuz i want the pain and violence from the comic series(like when blaze/ketch transform how the flesh just melts and drips off thier face til its a skull).back on topic i hope when the dvd comes out there will be an uncut version with alot of violent extra footage.what do yall think?

[Toxin66]

wow, all this time and i just ASSumed that is was rated R...Look at punisher: that was R.....wasen't Keanutine R as well? it has to be R......has to!

[BIGGUN]

wow, all this time and i just ASSumed that is was rated R...Look at punisher: that was R.....wasen't Keanutine R as well? it has to be R......has to!

nope...sorry..its going to be PG13
and to be honest they can get by w/ a PG13 rating....a good example of this were the Lord of the Rings films where non-human creatures were cut to ribbons by axes, swords, ect. they used quick camera cuts which also helped.
melting flesh has been done before in PG and PG13 films...Poltergeist and Raiders of the Lost Ark are some examples .
GR can be done either as an R or PG13...even both of the original comic series were actually aimed at kids 13 and up. it wasnt adult reading material like Hellblazer (aka Constantine)
would it it make a better film if it was rated R? its possible ...just as long as GR isnt made into a serial killer like some people feel he should be :rolleyes:

[Uncanny Orb]

Ya I don't think it will be a problem, it's not like he absoluely mutilates people anyway. Should he happen to send a fireball at somebody it may ever be cooler that it doesn't burn their physical being.

[thakey]

naw what im tryin to get atis....i know gr doesnt kill...often.but the villians do....violently. which is what i dont wanna lose out on. however those were very good points about other movies pg-pg13 biggun. i hadnt considered that. also i donnt want gr to take a human life (*ketch series) but i want blackheart and his minions to be as torturous and violent as they are in the comic.also another question does anybody know if blackheart will take his true demonnic form in the movie? i hope so

[thakey]

^^^and i love ur sig uncanny orb lmao!!!

[Mr Nick]

That's actually a good point. What kinds of havoc are Blackheart and his cronies going to wreak on the good folk of Melbourne, er, I mean Texas?

:D

[str8raz0r]

naw what im tryin to get atis....i know gr doesnt kill...often.but the villians do....violently. which is what i dont wanna lose out on. however those were very good points about other movies pg-pg13 biggun. i hadnt considered that. also i donnt want gr to take a human life (*ketch series) but i want blackheart and his minions to be as torturous and violent as they are in the comic.also another question does anybody know if blackheart will take his true demonnic form in the movie? i hope so

If you read through virtually any GR comic, the gore is usually pretty understated. Hell, even Midnight Massacre (prolly the most brutal of the GR/Midnight Sons arcs) was pretty subtle. Quick cuts and silhouettes, or hints at the aftermath are just as effective.

The characters and events can be very violent and disturbing without being graphic. I prefer it that way sometimes.

[Hoedowned]

nope...sorry..its going to be PG13
and to be honest they can get by w/ a PG13 rating....a good example of this were the Lord of the Rings films where non-human creatures were cut to ribbons by axes, swords, ect. they used quick camera cuts which also helped.
melting flesh has been done before in PG and PG13 films...Poltergeist and Raiders of the Lost Ark are some examples .
GR can be done either as an R or PG13...even both of the original comic series were actually aimed at kids 13 and up. it wasnt adult reading material like Hellblazer (aka Constantine)
would it it make a better film if it was rated R? its possible ...just as long as GR isnt made into a serial killer like some people feel he should be :rolleyes:

Using films from the 80s as an example won't help you. The MPAA has pussied out a lot in 20 years.

[Toxin66]

Using films from the 80s as an example won't help you. The MPAA has pussied out a lot in 20 years.


/\Thank you! Jaws was PG...if it were made today, it would be R

[Midnyte_Sun]

If this movie was rated 'G' I would still watch it.

But hey in all fairness, PG13 is now the medium for Science Fiction/Fantasy movies these days. Even the 3rd Generation of Gr had a hard time showing lots of blood in its pages. If you compare violence in Ghost Rider vs violence in Spawn, you can easily see the difference between them.

Maybe if this title comes off the ground in a big way MSJ might be enclined to make a PG13 sequel with an unrated more violent (appropriately so) DVD.

GR has its share of sadistic killers (blackout, skinner, madcap, scarecrow, stiege, and later on vengeance etc) but if you look at the comics you can see that the bloody gore was really shown in shadows, the blood was darkened and lots of silhouettes and other forms of vivid imagery were used to depict the violence so it can pass censors. When it comes to killing demons or supernatural foes, GR really doesn't hold back, and I'm sure we'll see that in this movie as well.

[FlameHead]

Ah yes, the PG-13 conversation. Many a battle/disscussion had on this and rightfully so. It's a topic deserving of debate but, I really don't think anyone has to worry. The movie will be a violent as it needs be and we all know how violent Ghost Rider is. Plus, we've already seen him blow crap up, like the cop at the end of the leaked footage. We've seen a transport truck slam into somebody. We know that Ghost Rider has a spiked chain that he uses and a brutal prison scene somewhere throughout...

There's no fear folks. I believe no matter what the rating (which is only a group of people ranking things anyway) it'll be a great ride.

[Mr. Socko]

Watered down PG13 like Daredevil or Bad to the bone R like Daredevil Director's cut?

[thakey]

pg 13 and HOPEFULLY an un cut dvd

[thakey]

^^^well put

[MarvelMovies]

... *tempted to burn self after repeated question after repeated question!*

[NDX]

... *tempted to burn self after repeated question after repeated question!*

If you need me, I'll be on fire with him.

[totalpackage59]

It's getting a bit like Ground Hog Day around here

[Darth Elektra]

I wish it be would be R-rated.

[Leon_0]

Ghost Rider+Hell+Rated R= Good movie
Ghost Rider+Hell+Rated Pg13= pussy movie

You cant have a pg13 movie based around Ghost Rider...his name alone is bad enough for a pg13 come on now. Im hoping they go all out on this movie and make it as good as possible, and not hold back because of the rated R or pg13 crap.

[Hoedowned]

It's getting a bit like Ground Hog Day around here

Yeah. I'm starting to hear the Sonny & Cher song in my brain.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Not that I wouldn't mind an R rating but it would also basically guarantee no sequel. It HAS to be Pg-13 sorry.

[Leon_0]

Saw had a sequel, and it was rated R ;)

[RedIsNotBlue]

Saw had a sequel, and it was rated R ;)

Saw also only had a production budget of 1.2 million dollars. ;)

[Darth Elektra]

Ghost Rider could have a sequel if its rated R. But Im pretty sure Mark has done said its Pg13.

[FlameHead]

Why does everyone insist that it matters what the rating is? I just don't get it.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Ghost Rider could have a sequel if its rated R. But Im pretty sure Mark has done said its Pg13.

Doubt it. An R rating would just cut away a percentage of its box office money therefore making a sequel ALOT less likely.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Why does everyone insist that it matters what the rating is? I just don't get it.

It doesn't. Ghost Rider can easily be fitted into the PG-13 category and still maintain everything that makes the character what he is in the comics. I guess some people automatically think that Hell and demons means R I dunno.

[zer00]

I'd rather have it with an R rating...I have my reasons

But if it's PG-13, you can go pretty far with that rating these days. It's more like a mini-R

Don't know why people are so up in arms about it

It's amazing what can bring a rating down

If you change blood from red to green it can bring the rating down

Since GR doesn't kill humans, very little blood is shed, besides dragging them behind his bike or anything:o

Demons of course can have any color blood, or not blood at all...since what would honestly be the point of a demon having blood

Of course the problem of a demon killing someone. Go back and use the old horror method, shadows or quick cuts or just leave it up to your imagination.

Like the original TCM, remembered as one of the most bloody movies ever, it of course had only some dry blood on a few walls and that was it. It was all shot in a way where the audience filled in the blanks. And of course GR or even the demons probobly won't be hanging people on meat hooks

[Advanced Dark]

Ghost Rider is a 120 million dollar film per MSJ. No way are they making this PG-13 when every kid on Earth is gonna wanna see that bike and GR. Now it would be nice to have an unrated DVD will some real meat in it, or have showings after 9:00 PM have an R rated Reel.

[Midnyte_Sun]

if its 120 Mill budget that must mean Sony is really putting its bet on this movie.

[str8raz0r]

OK, am I the only guy who, looking thru his old GR comics, sees very little R-Rated material in their pages?

With the exception of Road to Damnation, violence was usually just the whack-pow comic variety with heavy gore being kept in the shadows.

Hell, this was back when the Comics Code Authority was still around.

As far as hell, if you look at Hell in GR, it's not particularly nasty. There's fire and demons. No screaming virgins in pentagrams being raped by goats or anything.

Seeing that GR is, as far as explicitness, pretty tame, why does everyone push so hard for an R?

I, personally, would rather have a solid story, characters I can love/hate, and a movie that satisfies my craving for entertainment. We don't need a hyper-bloody fest for that.

[NDX]

I can't speak for Ghost Rider volume 1, but for volume 2 the only time I recall it getting graphic was during the "No Penance!" story arc where Vengeance went ape**** berserk. Before that, the most graphic scenes were Danny's transformations in Ghostie, and I think that can be handled properly in a PG-13 movie.

[str8raz0r]

I can't speak for Ghost Rider volume 1, but for volume 2 the only time I recall it getting graphic was during the "No Penance!" story arc where Vengeance went ape**** berserk. Before that, the most graphic scenes were Danny's transformations in Ghostie, and I think that can be handled properly in a PG-13 movie.

Even then, looking thru 'em, it's really no worse than Danny's transformation: flesh melting off bone in that Indiana Jones sense.

GR just never hit some of the real nasty notes of some of the other Midnight Sons comics...hell, I remember some of the early issues of Morbius being pretty damn raw for a Code-approved book.

I, personally, am glad they're not making GR R-Rated, ultimately. It makes it so they have to be more creative than grotesque.

[armitage16]

There have been a few other discussions of this topic on this board, and I must say, I am really getting tired of the rating battle. Someone brought up in a past thread that AVP was PG-13, and it had plenty of violence, even live burning and impalement. Also, AVP was an exponentially more graphic comic than Ghost Rider. So why should there be an R rating for Ghost Rider?

For those who still aren't convinced, here's a list of adaptations with R ratings which simply haven't worked:
The Punisher--Two stars
Blade: Trinity--One and a half stars
Blade--Two stars
Man-Thing--One and a half stars
Blade II--Two stars
Highlander: Endgame--One star

Now for some PG-13 Adaptations:
Spiderman--Four stars
Spiderman Two--Three and a half stars, an oscar, and two other oscar nominations
Batman Begins--Three and a half stars and an oscar nomination
X2--Three stars
Serenity--Three stars
Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring--Four stars, 4 oscars, and 13 nominations.
Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers--Four stars, 2 oscars, and 4 nominations.
Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King--Four stars and 11 oscars including best picture, best director, Best original score and song.

The trend is quite obvious. Still not convinced? Fine, don't see the movie then.

[zer00]

*chuckles at post*

[Mr. Socko]

LMAO @ your first post in here Zer00.

And a 120 million production budget for Ghost Rider? Sony must be on pot and every member of the board of directors there. They're in for a loss.

[Mr. Socko]

There have been a few other discussions of this topic on this board, and I must say, I am really getting tired of the rating battle. Someone brought up in a past thread that AVP was PG-13, and it had plenty of violence, even live burning and impalement. Also, AVP was an exponentially more graphic comic than Ghost Rider. So why should there be an R rating for Ghost Rider?

For those who still aren't convinced, here's a list of adaptations with R ratings which simply haven't worked:
The Punisher--Two stars
Blade: Trinity--One and a half stars
Blade--Two stars
Man-Thing--One and a half stars
Blade II--Two stars
Highlander: Endgame--One star

Now for some PG-13 Adaptations:
Spiderman--Four stars
Spiderman Two--Three and a half stars, an oscar, and two other oscar nominations
Batman Begins--Three and a half stars and an oscar nomination
X2--Three stars
Serenity--Three stars
Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring--Four stars, 4 oscars, and 13 nominations.
Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers--Four stars, 2 oscars, and 4 nominations.
Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King--Four stars and 11 oscars including best picture, best director, Best original score and song.

The trend is quite obvious. Still not convinced? Fine, don't see the movie then.

Yeah, Ghost Rider is rated PG13 so that automatically means it's gonna get 4 stars, 20 Oscars, and 25 Oscar Nominations :rolleyes:

[zer00]

LMAO @ your first post in here Zer00.



I have no idea what you meant by that

But I like your style:up:

[armitage16]

Yeah, Ghost Rider is rated PG13 so that automatically means it's gonna get 4 stars, 20 Oscars, and 25 Oscar Nominations :rolleyes:

I never said that. My claim was simply that PG-13 movies tend to do better than R-rated ones. When was the last time an R-rated action movie (excluding war movies) has done fantastically well with reviews and awards? Obviously, Ghost Rider isn't going to do awesome just because it is PG-13, but it will do better. That is for sure.

[Uncanny Orb]

I've seen some pretty crazy stuff in PG movies here in Canada, it seems like very few movies here are R unless there is some really steamy sex or zomies are chowing down on someones guts. Are the ratings different between Canada and the US?

[FlameHead]

I never said that. My claim was simply that PG-13 movies tend to do better than R-rated ones. When was the last time an R-rated action movie (excluding war movies) has done fantastically well with reviews and awards? Obviously, Ghost Rider isn't going to do awesome just because it is PG-13, but it will do better. That is for sure.

Just because something doesn't do well with reviews and awards doesn't mean it's not good. Some of the movies I love the critics absolutly hated.

I guess it all depends on what you go to movies for. If you're there to pick see if a movie is oscar worthy then, you probably wont like this movie. If you're there for a supernatural action filled ride with some very talented actors, then you probably will.

The rating does nothing to make a movie good or bad. It's just a rating.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Just because something doesn't do well with reviews and awards doesn't mean it's not good. Some of the movies I love the critics absolutly hated.

I guess it all depends on what you go to movies for. If you're there to pick see if a movie is oscar worthy then, you probably wont like this movie. If you're there for a supernatural action filled ride with some very talented actors, then you probably will.

The rating does nothing to make a movie good or bad. It's just a rating.

Yep. The Punisher is probably one of the most popular to hate comic book movies and it is personally one of my favorites. PG-13 movies make the most money because it basically means its for all ages...the middleground.

[FlameHead]

Me too. I love that freakin' flick and can't understand why others hate it so. Ah well, to each their own I guess.

[TheVileOne]

There have been a few other discussions of this topic on this board, and I must say, I am really getting tired of the rating battle. Someone brought up in a past thread that AVP was PG-13, and it had plenty of violence, even live burning and impalement. Also, AVP was an exponentially more graphic comic than Ghost Rider. So why should there be an R rating for Ghost Rider?

Alien vs. Predator was a totally neutered movie. It wasn't graphic or violent at all. There was no blood and they basically muted the famous curse/one-liner.

The movie was a piece of garbage. But hey it made $80 million.


For those who still aren't convinced, here's a list of adaptations with R ratings which simply haven't worked:
The Punisher--Two stars
Blade: Trinity--One and a half stars
Blade--Two stars
Man-Thing--One and a half stars
Blade II--Two stars
Highlander: Endgame--One star

This is one of the stupidest lists I've ever seen, why the hell is Highlander: Endgame even on this list?

Blade when it came out in 1998 was a big sleeper hit. Blade II was an even bigger one in 2002. Those movies would be nowhere near as good if they were PG-13.



Now for some PG-13 Adaptations:
Spiderman--Four stars
Spiderman Two--Three and a half stars, an oscar, and two other oscar nominations
Batman Begins--Three and a half stars and an oscar nomination
X2--Three stars
Serenity--Three stars
Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring--Four stars, 4 oscars, and 13 nominations.
Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers--Four stars, 2 oscars, and 4 nominations.
Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King--Four stars and 11 oscars including best picture, best director, Best original score and song.

The trend is quite obvious. Still not convinced? Fine, don't see the movie then.

No I'm not. Why is Serenity on the list? It wasn't exactly a bit hit.

Why name Oscar nominations are you so dense that you don't even realize that most Academy award winners and academy award nominated films are rated R?

[TheVileOne]

I never said that. My claim was simply that PG-13 movies tend to do better than R-rated ones. When was the last time an R-rated action movie (excluding war movies) has done fantastically well with reviews and awards? Obviously, Ghost Rider isn't going to do awesome just because it is PG-13, but it will do better. That is for sure.

That's a stupid observation. Most action movies don't even get Oscar nominations.

[FlameHead]

Blade is a MUCH different movie than Ghost Rider. Simply put, you cannot make a vampire movie without Blood and you cannot have a PG-13 with the amount of blood needed. This is why Blade was R.

Ghost Rider needs no blood and still be violent, therefor why not PG-13? Opens the audience up and that's what we all want isn't it; More people seeing the movie?

[TheVileOne]

Blade is a MUCH different movie than Ghost Rider. Simply put, you cannot make a vampire movie without Blood and you cannot have a PG-13 with the amount of blood needed. This is why Blade was R.

Well Ghost Rider is a movie about Hell and demons. And Satan's in it, so I don't really buy that argument.


Ghost Rider needs no blood and still be violent, therefor why not PG-13? Opens the audience up and that's what we all want isn't it; More people seeing the movie?

R-rated movies can draw large audiences and still make a lot of money. It's not impossible.

I care more about the movie being good than more people seeing it.

[FlameHead]

Well Ghost Rider is a movie about Hell and demons. And Satan's in it, so I don't really buy that argument.

R-rated movies can draw large audiences and still make a lot of money. It's not impossible.

I care more about the movie being good than more people seeing it.

I've seen movies about Satan and God and Hell and Demons and Angels that was rated G before so, I don't buy that argument.

You're right on the R rated movie thing, I don't disagree, they can and do make money. I keep saying, it's not the rating that makes a movie good, it's the movie itself. The rating is just a couple of letters and/or numbers giving it a catagory.

[RedIsNotBlue]

The R movies that make money don't have the huge budget Ghost Rider has.

[TheVileOne]

I've seen movies about Satan and God and Hell and Demons and Angels that was rated G before so, I don't buy that argument.


Which ones were rated G?


You're right on the R rated movie thing, I don't disagree, they can and do make money. I keep saying, it's not the rating that makes a movie good, it's the movie itself. The rating is just a couple of letters and/or numbers giving it a catagory.

I care more about the movie being good. And if the R rating is the difference in giving it the content it should have instead of it being a neutered PG-13 film like AVP, then there you go.

[TheVileOne]

The R movies that make money don't have the huge budget Ghost Rider has.

I honestly don't see why Ghost Rider should have such a huge budget. This is not the Hulk or Spider-man we are talking about here.

Also, plenty R-rated movies have big budgets.

[FlameHead]

But it is that big. The special effects alone make it that big.

[TheVileOne]

Well, we'll see if it works or if we have to wait for a superior version on DVD again.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I honestly don't see why Ghost Rider should have such a huge budget. This is not the Hulk or Spider-man we are talking about here.

The main character has a ****ing CGI flaming skull. There is gonna be a ton of effect shots in this film. The budget isn't Spidey or Hulk big but its still big at least 100 million.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Also, plenty R-rated movies have big budgets.

Didn't say there wasn't.

[TheVileOne]

The main character has a ****ing CGI flaming skull. There is gonna be a ton of effect shots in this film. The budget isn't Spidey or Hulk big but its still big at least 100 million.

So? Nicholas Cage isn't going to have a flaming skull for the entire movie. There are going to be more scenes of him without a flaming skull.

How much is the budget? $120 million? That's equivalent to X-men 2 and Fantastic Four range.

[TheVileOne]

Didn't say there wasn't.

You kind of did:

The R movies that make money don't have the huge budget Ghost Rider has.

Alright maybe not quite as huge, but they are huge.

[FlameHead]

I'm personally not fond of classifying movies by their budget. Doesn't make sense to me.

[RedIsNotBlue]

So? Nicholas Cage isn't going to have a flaming skull for the entire movie. There are going to be more scenes of him without a flaming skull.

How much is the budget? $120 million? That's equivalent to X-men 2 and Fantastic Four range.

I know. That was just one of the many examples of uses of CGI in the film and fire is very hard to do.

And yes that is the same range as those movies and they are PG-13 which is exactly my point. When the budget gets that high an R rating is pretty much thrown out.

[TheVileOne]

I'm personally not fond of classifying movies by their budget. Doesn't make sense to me.

Do you see me doing it? It's you and RedIsNotBlue that are.

[TheVileOne]

I know. That was just one of the many examples of uses of CGI in the film and fire is very hard to do.

And yes that is the same range as those movies and they are PG-13 which is exactly my point. When the budget gets that high an R rating is pretty much thrown out.

IMHO, the budget for a Ghost Rider movie does not need to be as high as an X-men film, a Hulk film, or Fantastic Four film.

Ghost Rider is not nor has he ever been a heavy hitter character.

[RedIsNotBlue]

You kind of did:



Alright maybe not quite as huge, but they are huge.

Uhhh no I didnt buddy. I said R movies dont get the budget Ghost Rider is getting because a good profit cant be made. Can you find me an R movie that has had the same range budget as Ghost Rider?

[RedIsNotBlue]

IMHO, the budget for a Ghost Rider movie does not need to be as high as an X-men film, a Hulk film, or Fantastic Four film.

Ghost Rider is not nor has he ever been a heavy hitter character.

Okay thats nice. Doesnt change the fact thats what the budget it is therefore it gets a PG-13.

[TheVileOne]

Uhhh no I didnt buddy. I said R movies dont get the budget Ghost Rider is getting because a good profit cant be made. Can you find me an R movie that has had the same range budget as Ghost Rider?

Terminator 2.

Terminator 3.

The Matrix Reloaded.

The Matrix Revolutions.

Constantine.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Terminator 2.

Terminator 3.

The Matrix Reloaded.

The Matrix Revolutions.

Well those are sequels to hugely successful first films. And 4?? Its very rare.

[TheVileOne]

Well those are sequels to hugely successful films. And 4?? Its very rare.

You didn't say they couldn't be sequels.

You said "find me an R rated film in the same budget range as Ghost Rider." You asked me to find you ONE. I found you 4.

The first Terminator was not hugely successful.

Most people at this point would say:
http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/drinksomemoreowned.jpg.jpg

[RedIsNotBlue]

Well you said "find me an R rated film in the same budget range as Ghost Rider." You asked me to find you ONE. I found you 4.

The first Terminator was not hugely successful. It was more of a cult, sleeper hit for its time. It did not make anything close to the budget of the second movie.

Lol. Didn't say it never happened I just asked if you could find me one. My point is that is very uncommon for a movie with that big of budget to get an R rating ESPECIALLY with the recent box office slump. And Vile...is it possible for you to make one post without being a pretentious douchebag. Quit being so nahnah nah nahnah with your posts.

[TheVileOne]

Lol. Didn't say it never happened I just asked if you could find me one. My point is that is very uncommon for a movie with that big of budget to get an R rating ESPECIALLY with the recent box office slump.

Well that's not what you said. You asked me to find you one. I found you four.

And CONSTANTINE. There that's 5. And Constantine came out in 2005.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Good for you. Ghost Rider is gonna be PG-13. :) And Constantine couldn't even make back its budget domestically which just goes to show.

[TheVileOne]

It's cute that you keep saying that Red, even though you were:

http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/icanasodriveowned.jpg.jpg

[RedIsNotBlue]

Yeah sure you owned me. Your originality blows me away. Now go be pretentious somewhere else cutie pie.

[TheVileOne]

It's a panda in a little car Red, its not pretentious, its adorable :) .

I'm not trying to be pretentious. And I felt I've made some valid points.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Yes you have along and so have I. Now lets just leave it at that.

[zer00]

I actually agree with Vile:o

[RedIsNotBlue]

I actually agree with Vile:o

Well thats fine. I am just stating facts. Sony wants PG-13 to make as much as they can. Just how it is.

[str8raz0r]

If they wanted an "R" film, would they be doing so much w/ licensing for toys/action figures?

Sure, there are "adult" action figures, but somehow I doubt they'd aim for something like that with an R flick.

[TheVileOne]

Contrary to popular belief, R-rated movies have had action figures toys and tons of merchandise.

[FlameHead]

IMHO, the budget for a Ghost Rider movie does not need to be as high as an X-men film, a Hulk film, or Fantastic Four film.

Ghost Rider is not nor has he ever been a heavy hitter character.

It's not the popularity of a character that determines it's budget. It's what's needed to make the character come to life. In this case, the title character is a flaming skeleton. To bring that to life means money.

Either way, the budget isn't what we're discussing here. It's the rating and the rating is PG-13.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's going to be P13. Sony isn't WB, they aren't going to be dumb enough to go with an R rating.

[FlameHead]

I don't know if it would be dumb to go with an R or not but, you're right, Sony are definatly not the WB... and I like it that way.

[TheVileOne]

It's not the popularity of a character that determines it's budget. It's what's needed to make the character come to life. In this case, the title character is a flaming skeleton. To bring that to life means money.

He's not a flaming skeleton. He has a flaming skull and flaming wheels on his motorcycle.

The X-men movies have characters that do all sorts of insane stuff, but the second movie still cost less than what the alleged budget is for Ghost Rider.

A while back I think we were hearing 50-60 million, that seemed pretty reasonable for this type of movie.


Either way, the budget isn't what we're discussing here. It's the rating and the rating is PG-13.

I'm not the one that originally brought up the budget either.

I think if it will make the movie better and less sanitized, it should be rated R.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I don't know if it would be dumb to go with an R or not but, you're right, Sony are definatly not the WB... and I like it that way.

I personally think it would dumb...but thats only if the budget is in the area I think it is.

[TheVileOne]

I dunno, if the budget is that big, I think it's kinda dumb to spend that much money on a Ghost Rider movie, even if its PG-13.

[RedIsNotBlue]

It just shows they are going for the best CGI and effects possible. I doubt they want mediocre CGI like Daredevil had.

[FlameHead]

He's not a flaming skeleton. He has a flaming skull and flaming wheels on his motorcycle.

....

Actually, he is a flaming skeleton. It's not just the skull. That's what it was like in the comics and from the look of GR's flaming boney hands in the teaser footage we've see, that's the way it is in the movie too.

[TheVileOne]

Alright, a flaming skull and boney hands then :) .

[MarvelMovies]

So, I'm gonna step in and lay the smack down... once again

http://boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=superhero.htm

PG Movies:
The Incredibles -- $261,441,092
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles -- $135,265,915
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II -- $78,656,813

PG-13 Movies:
Spider-Man -- $403,706,375
Spider-Man 2 -- $373,585,825
Batman -- $251,188,924
X2: X-Men United -- $214,949,694
Batman Begins -- $205,343,774
Batman Forever -- $184,031,112
Batman Returns -- $162,831,698
X-Men -- $157,299,717
Fantastic Four -- $154,696,080
Superman -- $134,218,018
Hulk -- $132,177,234
Superman II -- $108,185,706
Batman and Robin -- $107,325,195
Daredevil -- $102,543,518
Unbreakable -- $95,011,339
The Mask of Zorro -- $94,095,523

R Movies:
Blade II -- $82,348,319

In the top 20 Superhero movies, rated by box office intake... there are 16 PG-13 movies compared to 1 R movie.... heck, there are even 3 PG flicks!

Also, that R rated movie happens to be a sequel

This just proves that PG-13 superhero films have a larger box office... then R rated ones.

Going by purely a business stand point, PG-13 is the clear way to go.

How'd that R rated Punisher do?
The Punisher -- $33,810,189
$33 MILLION in the box office.... compare that to MSJ's other superhero production (PG-13 Daredevil) whose box office take was $102,543,518...

Lesson:
$102 Million > $33 million

PG-13 > R ... for superhero movies

There is no need for an R rating

I'd look more into the numbers and break this thing down.. but it's not worth any more discussion

[RedIsNotBlue]

So, I'm gonna step in and lay the smack down... once again

http://boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=superhero.htm

PG Movies:
The Incredibles -- $261,441,092
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles -- $135,265,915
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II -- $78,656,813

PG-13 Movies:
Spider-Man -- $403,706,375
Spider-Man 2 -- $373,585,825
Batman -- $251,188,924
X2: X-Men United -- $214,949,694
Batman Begins -- $205,343,774
Batman Forever -- $184,031,112
Batman Returns -- $162,831,698
X-Men -- $157,299,717
Fantastic Four -- $154,696,080
Superman -- $134,218,018
Hulk -- $132,177,234
Superman II -- $108,185,706
Batman and Robin -- $107,325,195
Daredevil -- $102,543,518
Unbreakable -- $95,011,339
The Mask of Zorro -- $94,095,523

R Movies:
Blade II -- $82,348,319

In the top 20 Superhero movies, rated by box office intake... there are 16 PG-13 movies compared to 1 R movie.... heck, there are even 3 PG flicks!

Also, that R rated movie happens to be a sequel

This just proves that PG-13 superhero films have a larger box office... then R rated ones.

Going by purely a business stand point, PG-13 is the clear way to go.

How'd that R rated Punisher do?
The Punisher -- $33,810,189
$33 MILLION in the box office.... compare that to MSJ's other superhero production (PG-13 Daredevil) whose box office take was $102,543,518...

Lesson:
$102 Million > $33 million

PG-13 > R ... for superhero movies

There is no need for an R rating

I'd look more into the numbers and break this thing down.. but it's not worth any more discussion

Oh my god. I...love...you? :up:

[MarvelMovies]

Doubt it. An R rating would just cut away a percentage of its box office money therefore making a sequel ALOT less likely.

Agreed!

Superhero Movies with a sequel:

PG-13--
Spider-Man
X-Men
Batman
Superman

R Rating--
Blade
Crow

Sequels with box office intakes in the top 20 ....

PG-13--
2) Spider-Man 2
5) X2: X-Men United
6) Batman Begins (Techincally, a restart, so could remove it from this list)
7) Batman Forever
8) Batman Returns
14) Superman II
15) Batman and Robin

R--

19) Blade 2

....

Hmmm... seems that PG-13 does appear to be the clear choice again!

[MarvelMovies]

Oh my god. I...love...you? :up:

Hahaha!

Just stating the numbers and facts

:D

[RedIsNotBlue]

Yeah I tried to tell Vileone that bet you did it much better.

[Uncanny Orb]

I pretty sure that Blade 2 was not R here in Canada because me and my son did not miss any of them. At least I don't remeber not seeing them.

[FlameHead]

Nope, sorry man, it was R here too.

Can't young people go to movies if they have adults with them?

[NDX]

Unless it's NC-17 (here in the states), you can see an R movie as long as you are accompanied by a parent and under 18.

[TheVileOne]

So, I'm gonna step in and lay the smack down... once again

http://boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=superhero.htm

PG Movies:
The Incredibles -- $261,441,092
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles -- $135,265,915
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II -- $78,656,813

PG-13 Movies:
Spider-Man -- $403,706,375
Spider-Man 2 -- $373,585,825
Batman -- $251,188,924
X2: X-Men United -- $214,949,694
Batman Begins -- $205,343,774
Batman Forever -- $184,031,112
Batman Returns -- $162,831,698
X-Men -- $157,299,717
Fantastic Four -- $154,696,080
Superman -- $134,218,018
Hulk -- $132,177,234
Superman II -- $108,185,706
Batman and Robin -- $107,325,195
Daredevil -- $102,543,518
Unbreakable -- $95,011,339
The Mask of Zorro -- $94,095,523

R Movies:
Blade II -- $82,348,319

In the top 20 Superhero movies, rated by box office intake... there are 16 PG-13 movies compared to 1 R movie.... heck, there are even 3 PG flicks!

Also, that R rated movie happens to be a sequel

This just proves that PG-13 superhero films have a larger box office... then R rated ones.

Going by purely a business stand point, PG-13 is the clear way to go.

How'd that R rated Punisher do?
The Punisher -- $33,810,189
$33 MILLION in the box office.... compare that to MSJ's other superhero production (PG-13 Daredevil) whose box office take was $102,543,518...

Lesson:
$102 Million > $33 million

PG-13 > R ... for superhero movies

There is no need for an R rating

I'd look more into the numbers and break this thing down.. but it's not worth any more discussion

All this really tells me is that Sony or Johnson don't have enough confidence in the film to break that trend and try to make something edgier and darker like those first 2 Blade movies. Just like Fox didn't have enough confidence to release the the non-butchered cut of Daredevil.

I see no reason why the movie should have to cater to the kids and family types because considering the subject matter, I don't think its going to make X-men/Spider-man type money.

[RedIsNotBlue]

All this really tells me is that Sony or Johnson don't have enough confidence in the film to break that trend and try to make something edgier and darker like those first 2 Blade movies. Just like Fox didn't have enough confidence to release the the non-butchered cut of Daredevil.

I see no reason why the movie should have to cater to the kids and family types because considering the subject matter, I don't think its going to make X-men/Spider-man type money.

Daredevil didn't even need the R. The only thing that I can think of that pushed it to the R was the F word used by Colin Farrel. Daredevil could have been PG-13 and good it was just the editing and chopping that made the theatrical version suck.

And have you actually read any Ghost Rider comics? People around here seem to agree that there is mostly PG-13 material in the comics. Its not a question of confidence its just common sense. Ghost Rider can maintain a PG-13 rating and still be the Ghost Rider from the comics and be in the best profit area in the movies.

[TheVileOne]

Daredevil didn't even need the R. The only thing that I can think of that pushed it to the R was the F word used by Colin Farrel. Daredevil could have been PG-13 and good it was just the editing and chopping that made the theatrical version suck.

And have you actually read any Ghost Rider comics? People around here seem to agree that there is mostly PG-13 material in the comics. Its not a question of confidence its just common sense. Ghost Rider can maintain a PG-13 rating and still be the Ghost Rider from the comics and be in the best profit area in the movies.

I've read Ghost Rider comics, and some of them were pretty bloody and violent and the way he unmercifully just executes a lot of people. It's my understanding that he doesn't or can't kill people in this movie right?

Also, the subject matter itself. A guys sells his soul to Satan to become a demonic vigilante. I don't see it making huge money.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I've read Ghost Rider comics, and some of them were pretty bloody and violent and the way he unmercifully just executes a lot of people. It's my understanding that he doesn't or can't kill people in this movie right?

Also, the subject matter itself. A guys sells his soul to Satan to become a demonic vigilante. I don't see it making huge money.

Uhh to my knowledge Ghost Rider doesn't intentionally kill or execute people in the comics...he just inflicts pain on humans at the most. He is probably only going to get bloody and violent with the demons in the movie therefore making it CREATURE violence which gives it the PG-13. :)

[TheVileOne]

Uhh to my knowledge Ghost Rider doesn't intentionally kill or execute people in the comics...he just inflicts pain on humans at the most. He is probably only going to get bloody and violent with the demons in the movie therefore making it CREATURE violence which gives it the PG-13. :)

I've read issues where he does indeed brutally kill people.

But hey, torture is just fine ;) .

The rating kind of tells me they are going for a more Spider-man demographic, which I don't think they are going to get.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Well I will have to revert to Flamehead and let him answer if he has actually killed people cause to my knowledge he doesn't.

[MarvelMovies]

All this really tells me is that Sony or Johnson don't have enough confidence in the film to break that trend and try to make something edgier and darker like those first 2 Blade movies. Just like Fox didn't have enough confidence to release the the non-butchered cut of Daredevil.

I see no reason why the movie should have to cater to the kids and family types because considering the subject matter, I don't think its going to make X-men/Spider-man type money.

20 + year trend of successful PG-13 Superhero movies...

I'd say it's a little more then trend, it might as well be fact.

If you were 16 years old, which I'd assume you're not seeing as how you are pushing for the R rating so badly, and wanted to see Ghost Rider... think of the PG-13 rating in that sense.

If you're saying that the movie will make that $30 million barely... and therefore might as well make it R for those people who want to see it, then you could just go watch Punisher.

I can almost guarantee you that the movie will make $100 million+ ... atleast the budget's worth.

Sure, the movie probably won't make $200 million and more, but then again, not too many movies do -- especially with an unknown character and a R budget.

Maybe you should put forth the $120 million, give it the R rating, and release it to theaters not caring about how much the box office is.

But remember this... the movie industry is just that... an industry, a business. Money first, then entertainment and "fan pleasing".

It seems that Sony has made fine decisions with the Spider-Man franchise, so might as well let it sit.

If you want an R rated script... that is purely gore and blood and guts... check out the David Goyer script. It might not be truthful the character at all, but heck.. it has blood -- and in the end -- that's all that really matters, right?

Who cares about the character of Ghost Rider, as long as we get to see a baddie's insides become his outsides.

To make a script truthful to the character, I think PG-13 is the way to go. If you think otherwise, maybe you should go back and "re-read these issues where Ghost Rider executes people" and report back.

[BIGGUN]

Well I will have to revert to Flamehead and let him answer if he has actually killed people cause to my knowledge he doesn't.
to say that either GR never killed would be false...he did. but it was in the early issues of both series and it was a RARE occurance. in an early issue of the 70s series GR killed a human villain w/ hellfire, there were 2 or 3 other times where he caused a human villain to be killed. ran one dude off a cliff and ran his hellcycle into a helicopter before it had a chance to dive into a nuclear reactor.
the demon Zarathos (Ghost Rider) didnt mind killing human beings...but it was Blaze's willpower that prevented him from doing it. the times when he did kill were when he had no choice....he wasnt being vindictive.
the 90s GR also killed but again it was RARE and happened only in the early issues. he punched one mugger in the face w/ his spiked fist and you assumed he killed him...he made one ninja stab himself w/ his own weapon. however the ninja was later revealed to be a undead creature used by Centurious and wasnt human to begin with. there was even a little arguement between GR and the Punisher where Pun was about to shoot a villain and GR stopped him saying that something to the effect that "vengeance is my mission...not death"
later in the series this point was driven home over and over again that GR would not take a human life.

what does all of this mean? well it seems GR would kill but only when he had no other choice. also it shows that this was before the writers knew exactly what to make of GR. it was suggested in a interview before the 90s series started that GR would be someting like a "supernatural punisher"...only killing when he had no other choice. but it seems Marvel didnt like the idea and nixed that point early in the series.
fans remember GR as only giving human villains the Penance Stare or buring their souls w/ Hellfire. only killling non-humans (demons/monsters) was allowed. THIS should be reflected in the movie...as it was in the comics.

as far as the PG13 rating goes...GR for the most part was always intended to be PG13. the 1995 movie was going to PG13...but when Goyer had success w/ his R rated Blade they felt they could do the same for GR. it was all set to go untill 9/11 hit and changed how films were being made at the time. many films were dropped, changed or shelved because of their violent content. GR was a casualty as the producers decided it would best if it was to be PG13 instead of R. Goyer refused and moved on...MSJ agreed to the idea and the rest is history.

[MarvelMovies]

I think it's better that Goyer dropped out after reading his R rated script...

It didn't really reflect the character too well, and was just based on new characters and GR punching holes in faces.

All in all, right choice to wait and go with MSJ, I'd say anyways

[FlameHead]

BG, wise as always. Very well put explinatin of Ghost Riders death past. I had no idea about Blaze and his demon killing. The Dan stuff I knew of course... and again, personally, I prefere the non death. It is far worse to live a life in pain than die.

I kinda like that Ghost Rider, a flaming demon of vengeance, can be (and is) inspiration to our own society. Most of us know that death solves nothing and it's great that our favorite comic character spreads that message.

[RedIsNotBlue]

to say that either GR never killed would be false...he did. but it was in the early issues of both series and it was a RARE occurance. in an early issue of the 70s series GR killed a human villain w/ hellfire, there were 2 or 3 other times where he caused a human villain to be killed. ran one dude off a cliff and ran his hellcycle into a helicopter before it had a chance to dive into a nuclear reactor.
the demon Zarathos (Ghost Rider) didnt mind at all killing human beings...but it was Blaze's willpower that prevented him from doing it. the times when he did kill were when he had no choice....he wasnt being vindictive.
the 90s GR also killed but again it was RARE and happened only in the early issues. he punched one mugger in the face w/ his spiked fist and you assumed he killed him...he made one ninja stab himself w/ his own weapon. however the ninja was later revealed to be a undead creature used by Centurious and wasnt human to begin with. there was even a little arguement between GR and the Punisher where Pun was about to shoot a villain and GR stopped him saying that something to the effect that "vengeance is my mission...not death"
later in the series this point was driven home over and over again that GR would not take a human life.

what does all of this mean? well it seems GR would kill but only when he had no other choice. also it shows that this was before the writers knew exactly what to make of GR. it was suggested in a interview before the 90s series started that GR would be someting like a "supernatural punisher"...only killing when he had no other choice. but it seems Marvel didnt like the idea and nixed that point early in the series.
fans remember GR as only giving human villains the Penance Stare or buring their souls w/ Hellfire. only killling non-humans (demons/monsters) was allowed. THIS should be reflected in the movie...as it was in the comics.

as far as the PG13 rating goes...GR for the most part was always intended to be PG13. the 1995 movie was going to PG13...but when Goyer had success w/ his R rated Blade they felt they could do the same for GR. it was all set to go untill 9/11 hit and changed how films were being made at the time. many films were dropped, changed or shelved because of their violent content. GR was a casualty as the producers decided it would best if it was to be PG13 instead of R. Goyer refused and moved on...MSJ agreed to the idea and the rest is history.

Wow. Thank you. Surely Vileone has a better understanding of the character now and can accept that a PG-13 rating is sufficient.

[RedIsNotBlue]

*And Vileone never returns when there is nothing else negative to say* :O

[Kritish]

It needs to be rated R.

[RedIsNotBlue]

*Sighs*

I give up.

[FlameHead]

It's just as well.

[TheVileOne]

20 + year trend of successful PG-13 Superhero movies...

I'd say it's a little more then trend, it might as well be fact.

I don't really see Ghost Rider as a super hero, but I suppose the point is up for debate. There are successful R-rated comic book movies as well.


If you were 16 years old, which I'd assume you're not seeing as how you are pushing for the R rating so badly, and wanted to see Ghost Rider... think of the PG-13 rating in that sense.

I honestly never had trouble seeing an R-rated movie when I was 16. I believe few people do. I doubt it kept teenagers from seeing the Matrix movies. So I feel its a flimsy argument.


If you're saying that the movie will make that $30 million barely... and therefore might as well make it R for those people who want to see it, then you could just go watch Punisher.

I can almost guarantee you that the movie will make $100 million+ ... atleast the budget's worth.

You know, a lot of people guaranteed that Elektra would make around that much.


Sure, the movie probably won't make $200 million and more, but then again, not too many movies do -- especially with an unknown character and a R budget.

It still won't make that much with a PG-13 rating.


Maybe you should put forth the $120 million, give it the R rating, and release it to theaters not caring about how much the box office is.

I've already questioned the wisdom of spending that amount on a Ghost Rider film. The studio feels they can't release a movie with this budget with an R-rating.


But remember this... the movie industry is just that... an industry, a business. Money first, then entertainment and "fan pleasing".

Yeah and look where its getting them. Steadily declining BO sales and movie attendance EVERY YEAR.


It seems that Sony has made fine decisions with the Spider-Man franchise, so might as well let it sit.

Spider-man and Ghost Rider are two totally different beasts. And I don't see Ghost Rider having the mass broad and crossover appeal that Spider-man does.


If you want an R rated script... that is purely gore and blood and guts... check out the David Goyer script. It might not be truthful the character at all, but heck.. it has blood -- and in the end -- that's all that really matters, right?

Not really, I just don't want the movie to be restricted and butchered like Daredevil clearly was in theatres.

To make a script truthful to the character, I think PG-13 is the way to go. If you think otherwise, maybe you should go back and "re-read these issues where Ghost Rider executes people" and report back.

Well, has anyone here even read Johnson's script?

[MarvelMovies]

*Sighs*

I give up.

Ditto; I don't even care to argue anymore.

No matter what I say, VileOne will just argue with me just for the sake of arguing...

Besides, screw it, the movie is rated PG-13... NOT R and they're not going to change it.

/finish.

[TheVileOne]

I don't expect them to change it. I simply wanted to point out a lot the misconceptions made in this thread.

[FlameHead]

Okay Vile, you made your points. You want the movie rated R. Wonderful. We accept that but, it think it's time for you to except the fact that it's not R and will not be R. I mean, whether you like it or not, at this point, there is nothing that can be done.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I don't expect them to change it. I simply wanted to point out a lot the misconceptions made in this thread.

What about your misconception of the character?? Did you even read Biggun's little summary there??

[TheVileOne]

No misconceptions about R-rated movies from armitage.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Lol...can't admit when you were wrong. Fine. I can see this is going nowhere.

[FlameHead]

It went nowhere long ago my friend. I see no point in insisting that the movie be R when we know it's not. We've tried to explain it but, to no avail so, it's just as well we all move on.

[TheVileOne]

Lol...can't admit when you were wrong. Fine. I can see this is going nowhere.

Wrong about what? Ghost Rider not killing people? Because he has.

I've never once insisted the movie be rated R either.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Wrong about what? Ghost Rider not killing people? Because he has.

I've never once insisted the movie be rated R either.

No your were saying Ghost Rider was UNMERCIFULLY KILLING ALOT of PEOPLE. This statement is wrong period. Therefore lowering the argument of having an R rating. Ghost Rider ISN'T the Punisher. And you've never insisted the move be R??? Your joking right?? Pretty much every post from you is pissed about it being PG-13 therefore you insist it be R.

[TheVileOne]

No your were saying Ghost Rider was UNMERCIFULLY KILLING ALOT of PEOPLE. This statement is wrong period. Therefore lowering the argument of having an R rating. Ghost Rider ISN'T the Punisher. And you've never insisted the move be R??? Your joking right?? Pretty much every post from you is pissed about it being PG-13 therefore you insist it be R.
He didn't seem very merciful in an issue I read where he murdered a guy using his spiked fist on a perp's head.

And once again, I never insisted the rating be R. There's a difference between critiquing the rating and insisting on it.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I am sure there was more to it than Ghost Rider just killing a guy but okay. The character is not a killer of people but in SOME cases it has happened according to Biggun. Ghost Rider doesn't need to kill to be Ghost Rider...accept it.

[str8raz0r]

Ultimately, it comes down to the tone of the movie.

Dark and edgy don't necessarily construe gross excesses of violence and language, or other "R" rated content. I think the character can be dark and edgy without us seeing the most gruesome details. I mean, he's a vengeful flaming demon, fer chrissakes! I don't think you can make that particularly upbeat and "kid-friendly." Regardless of rating, I think we can get at the basics of the character without being nasty. Sure, he got a little brutal at times, but those seemed more the exception than the standard. The movie is ultimately going to be more about power struggle than anything else...between Blaze/Zarathos (or whatever they're calling it in the film), Mephisto/Blackheart, possibly Caretaker and his own demons...if they can flesh out these aspects in a PG-13 film, I'd say they did all right by me. If they can do that in an R, more power to them, but that's not the path they chose.

To everyone debating over the rating, howzabout we get back together early next year and discuss it then, when we can actually tell if it seems that the character's grittiness has been harmed by the rating/content?

[FlameHead]

He didn't seem very merciful in an issue I read where he murdered a guy using his spiked fist on a perp's head.

And once again, I never insisted the rating be R. There's a difference between critiquing the rating and insisting on it.

There is no proof that this punch to the face killed him. People have survived gun shot wounds to the face. The blood comes from the fact that he was punched in the face. A broken nose could have caused that amount of blood for petie's sake.

[RedIsNotBlue]

There is no proof that this punch to the face killed him. People have survived gun shot wounds to the face. The blood comes from the fact that he was punched in the face. A broken nose could have caused that amount of blood for petie's sake.

Well the fact is I rarely have heard or know of Ghost Rider killing human beings purposely and it seems Vile is unable to grasp that and is unable to accept that he has a misconception of the character.

[FlameHead]

Oh well, what can you do. Perhaps he'll go out and buy a few issues and see truly what the character is about. Maybe then he'll realize that perhaps there are other people out there who may know a little more than he does.

Either way, I'm pretty sure at this point Vile is continuing just to keep under our skins.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I don't think I have EVER seen him make a positive post. He is always a critic.

[FlameHead]

There's one in every crowd.

[TheVileOne]

I don't think I have EVER seen him make a positive post. He is always a critic.

I've made plenty of them. You are just being a jerk and trying to discredit me by saying I don't. Even though I post in many different sections in this community.

And it was clear from the text that Ghost Rider did indeed kill the perp. But that's not what this is. If he doesn't kill people fine, but if the content of the movie warrants something stronger than a PG-13, I simply feel they shouldn't be restricted by that. That's my opinion. Quit attacking me for it.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I am not being a jerk. Honestly pretty much every post I have seen from you has negativity in it. This is just going by what I have seen. And what content?? Hell and demons?? Big deal.

[FlameHead]

Vile, we respect your opinion. We understand that you feel it should be R and, when it comes down to it, we'd once probably agree with you. The fact is though, when you look at all the PG-13 movies out there, you can easily tell that there is no need for GR to be rated any more than that. I mean, The Lord of the Rings was pretty brutal at times and it was PG-13. What more would Ghost Rider be doing than that to cause it to have to be R?

This movie and/or character is not a Wes Craven type of thing. Yes, there is horrific elements but it deals with fear, not gore and death. It's an action/adventure not a horrir flick. You have to remember that and as for death, Ghost Rider can and will kill demons. It's human life he doesn't take so, if you're the type of person that needs to see death in films then, you should still get it.

Either way, all we're asking is that you respect our opinion as well and perhaps wait until seeing the movie before judging it's outcome.

[Spider - Man]

Why does everyone insist that it matters what the rating is? I just don't get it.

The reason I hope it's PG13 is because my 12-year-old son is dying to see it and I won't take him if its rated R. The funny thing is, the things most people are afraid will be cut if it's PG13 - the hell refs, groutesque violence - will probably still be in the 13 version. What an R rating usually does is make for more cursing and maybe some nudity. The DC of DD would've been pretty much the same if they'd have taken out the added cursing and tit shot and still had a pg13 rating.

[FlameHead]

There are very silly reasons why things get a rated R... or get rated at all. For examle, in the DD theatrical cut, they would not allow Bullseye to stab Elekta and then kiss her. Stabbing is fine but, the kissing was too graphic.

Ratings are silly. Ignore it.

Spider, you're reasonings for wanting it PG-13 outways any argument for wanting it R. You are only promoting quality time with family but showing that having it PG-13 will draw more people as well.

[antariksh]

you know what i have watched the trailer 15 times since yesterday.

I have a feeling that this movie will be rated pg-13 NOT R-rated.

There was not a single shot in the movie that screamed R-rated.

Ya guys this will be AVP.

But it will have much better actions sequences and SFX.

Will you still support GR if it is pg-13?

I mean common the movie has a budget of $100-130 million, there is no way COLUMBIA will release it as a R-rated movie. It simply won't do well at boxoffice.

who cares i will still watch it and probably end up buying on DVD.

[FlameHead]

You obviously didn't read some of the older threads. This movie was shot for PG-13 and yes, I will fully support it as I've always have, especially after seeing the footage so far. Everything looks as supernatural as needed.

[wolfsfang]

It could have been made for toddlers and I would still go and see it. The movie looks awesome so who cares which age group it falls under

[FlameHead]

Exactly, it's just a rating set by outside influences. It means nothing.

[wolfsfang]

Exactly, it's just a rating set by outside influences. It means nothing.

They normally get it wrong anyway.

[antariksh]

Ok then you are indeed the best fans of a comic book movie.

Once I am done watching X3 and supporting it for atleast a week i will come to your boards and support you guys.

MARVEL rules DC sucks.

[wolfsfang]

I support all Marvel Comic book movies

But never DC

[antariksh]

I support all Marvel Comic book movies

But never DC

GREAT!!!!

NONE OF US SHOULD WATCH SR, BB2 or any other DC comic based movie.

WOW i am a hardcore MARVEL fan.

[FlameHead]

Yeah, I'm a Marvel man too. Obsessed with the universe really. Well, the occult/supernatural side of it anyway. I hate DC though, I have enjoyed some of their flicks. Bats was awesome. Constantine was okay. Supes? Well, screw supes. I hate him and will not be suporting this flick until at the very least the 2nd weekend. I will not contribute to it's opening weekends gross.

I do really want to see Spacey though. Huge fan of his and it's probably the only reason why I'd check this movie out at all.

[wolfsfang]

There is no limit to how much I hate Supes. I loathe, detest and despise him.

But lets forget him and concentrate on the important things...Ghost Rider, Spider-Man and all things Marvel

[FlameHead]

I like your thinking Wolf.

[The Apatow Crew]

yes forget the man of so called steel.

[FlameHead]

Speaking of which, I do have to admit that the part where he gets shot in the eye is pretty damn cool....