Was BF a "decent" Batman Film or Not?

[BatmanRules33]

I'm not sure what everyones final opinion on Forever is, but i would like to know. so far, ive been hearing mixed reviews, some hate it, some love it, and some are luke warm about it. my question for this thread is: Is batman forever a "decent" batman movie, even if its close to being the disaster B&R was? for me, im lukewarm about it, i felt that kilmer, even though not the best bruce wayne/Batman, did try to be a good batman, but under the direction of schumacher, he wound up not being the best Bman he could be. clooney however.....dont get me started, horrible. but kilmer i felt was a bit better. plus, i felt like forever still had a darkness to it (though a heck of a lot more colorful then burtons), and infinitly more darker then horrible B&R, so anyways im just curious what you all think of Forever, your 'final' opinons??

[Riven]

Decent may just be the word. It's not bad... but it definitely isn't good either.

I wrote an opinion piece about it for Batman-On-Film.com:

Click here to read it (http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_petervg_batmanforever_jan252005.html) ;)





:batman:

[Two-Face]

Batman Forever was decent cos Tim Burton helped Schumacher when Schumacher did B&R without Burton it fallan into pieces.

[DAN1987]

All in all a decent film. Although what annoys me is the nipples on the bat-suit and the "i'll get drive through". I belive Kilmer did a great job though. Was'nt faithful to the comics..which drags it down a great deal.

[Pksoze]

It's a mediocre movie.

I think it looks better in the Theatres than on dvd or video in the stunts department.

If you're a big Two Face fan though you may hate it.

[bones1971]

Batman Forever was decent cos Tim Burton helped Schumacher when Schumacher did B&R without Burton it fallan into pieces.

Burton did NOT help Schumacher. He was made an "honorary" executive producer. As was a tip to the cap when they used Dr. Burton in Arkham. Tim Burton himself admitted to not even being on set at any time nor having any imput what so ever. All he got was a simple phone call from Schumacher asking him what he thought about him directing Batman 3. Burton gave his blessing. Thats where it ended.

[Dark Angel]

1st of all i want to tell you that Batman Forever is my favourite movie! and in my opinion i think Bf is: Excellent, Wonderful, Decent, Super-Puper, Great, Dark movie!!!!:)
http://img62.exs.cx/img62/8236/batman296uf.jpg

[Chomp]

None of you disliked Two Face? Two Face in BF was everything that Two Face in the comics wasn't. Two Face lives and dies by his coin...in BF he goes against what the coin says and flips it again...WTF!?!?

Plus The Riddler's riddles were TOO DAMN EASY.

For that BF sucks as a Batman film AND is an atrocious attempt at a theatrical film.

[bones1971]

Dark Movie? Two face jumping around like Jack Nicholson's Joker with a goofy smile on his face. I think Jones and Schumacher did zero character study in the two-face character. It was the most unfaithful potrayal of any of the villians in the movies.

[Chomp]

Dark Movie? Two face jumping around like Jack Nicholson's Joker with a goofy smile on his face. I think Jones and Schumacher did zero character study in the two-face character. It was the most unfaithful potrayal of any of the villians in the movies.

What I find hysterical is that Schumacher "claims" to this day, that he is a huge fan of the comics...LoL.

I wonder how excellent the 2 Bat films would have been if he had never read a comic in his life?

[The Guard]

Plus The Riddler's riddles were TOO DAMN EASY.

Right. I'm sure you figured them out right away.

[Chomp]

Right. I'm sure you figured them out right away.

Some of them I did...but I was speaking about in the movie. They were way too easiliy figured out by Batman. The riddles are usually truely thought provoking, complicated, perplexing riddles that the police cannot solve. In BF, Batman solves each riddle in a matter of minutes of recieving them.

Understand now smartass?

[Swordmaster]

actually, it showed what a keen mind Wayne had. I enjoy Batman Forvevr, and I hope the directors cut gets released

[Chomp]

What good is the character of THE RIDDLER when his riddles are solved within minutes? Tell me that.

The Riddler's riddles should take a while to figure out...they should be bizarre, trapezoidal verbal conundrums...lateral thinking puzzles that defy rational thought, then make perfect sense once solved. In the movie, this was certainly not the case. Edward Nigma is a genius who is obsessed with riddles...why then, couldn't he think up any good ones?

[Riven]

The "numbers on my face" one and the one about the match are actually riddles that I knew as a kid (6-7 years old?)


The others are not much harder to figure out, if you take a minute. It shows Bruce has a keen mind. The keen mind of a primary schooler.

The TRUE riddle is how that BULLS#!t explanation towards the Riddler's identity ever made it into the movie...

"each riddle has a number. 12, 1, 8, 5. Letters of the alphabet? M A H E? what if 1 and 8 are 18? M R E. Mister E. Mystery! Enigma! Mister E Nigma! Edward Nigma!"

That is both so easy and so illogical.

[GL-Corps#28]

It has enormous flaws, and is in no way a great movie, but Forever is my favorite non-animated Batman film.:up:

[LastSunrise1981]

Dark Movie? Two face jumping around like Jack Nicholson's Joker with a goofy smile on his face. I think Jones and Schumacher did zero character study in the two-face character. It was the most unfaithful potrayal of any of the villians in the movies.

That's not true at all. It's been reported that Tommy Lee Jones knew about Two-Face and wanted to do an accurate comic depiction of him; however, Joel wanted him to act like he did in the movie and that's what ultimately led to them not getting along on the set.

It's also reported that Val and Joel didn't get along either. Both Val and Tommy wanted a darker Batman film, but it was obviously too late once the filming started.

It's left a real bitter taste in Val's mouth; because still he refuses to talk about BF in interviews or articles. Tommy never seems to mention it either, but I'd love to hear his opinion on the upcoming BB.

[GuestStar2004]

What I find hysterical is that Schumacher "claims" to this day, that he is a huge fan of the comics...LoL.

I wonder how excellent the 2 Bat films would have been if he had never read a comic in his life?

just because batman forever wasn't burton material, doesn't mean he isn't a fan of the comics

its just the way he chose to do the film that bothers you, and i think he tried to please people who remember the 60's tv series, fans of the animated series and burton batman films fans.... and maybe it just doesn't mix well

burton didn't do the penguins charactor right in br, but you can't accuse him of not reading a comic

[Two-Face]

Tommy Lee Jones is great actor and I like all his films, Jones would have made darker Two-Face if he didn't been told by Schumacher to play Two-Face like Nicholson's Joker. Val Kilmer did try to be dark and serious at times as Bruce Wayne and in a Batsuit, Kilmer had nice voice as Batman unlike George Clooney.

[GL-Corps#28]

Kilmer, Clooney, Thurman, Carrry, Jones, and possibly Schwarzenegger and O'Donnell all could have done been fantastic in their respective roles, if they had been given proper direction and better scripts. Some of them did do good jobs, IMO, they just weren't really anything like their comic book counterparts.

[etrigan69]

For my money they have never, and probably will never create a faithful to the comic movie. Sometimes you get a glimpse though. The part in BF when Kilmer took on Two Face's goons was the closest for me. Batman swinging in to meet with Gordon and Chase. The look on Kilmer's face when he survived being flamed by using his cape. Glimpses. But never the entire movie.

[etrigan69]

P.S. Two-Face was awful. I don't know if he was like that in the script. The performance for me really had more in common with Cesar Romero's Joker than Two-Face from the comics.

[Chomp]

just because batman forever wasn't burton material, doesn't mean he isn't a fan of the comics

This thread isn't about either of the Burton films...its about Batman Forever. No where in any of my posts did I compare Burton and Schumacher.


its just the way he chose to do the film that bothers you, and i think he tried to please people who remember the 60's tv series, fans of the animated series and burton batman films fans.... and maybe it just doesn't mix well

No, I said what I dislike about the film...Batman Forever wasn't a take off of the 60's TV Series...it was a continuation of the last 2 Batman films. The setting and cinematography I could care less about...What I hated was the way the two villains of Two Face and The Riddler were played out as. They both were worthless, laughable villains. In the comics, Two Face and The Riddler are two of Batman's greatest pathological, sadistic villains.

burton didn't do the penguins charactor right in br, but you can't accuse him of not reading a comic

Burton didn't read the comics.

Again, Burton's films have its flaws, but this thread is not about them. This thread is about whether or not Batman Forever was a decent Batman film. And in my opinion, I feel it wasn't.

[Comic Book Boy]

I am willing to admit that BF is a decent bat-film....I still don't think it was good (too sci-fi) But I still enjoy some of it....Kilmer was good.

[GuestStar2004]

This thread isn't about either of the Burton films...its about Batman Forever. No where in any of my posts did I compare Burton and Schumacher.



No, I said what I dislike about the film...Batman Forever wasn't a take off of the 60's TV Series...it was a continuation of the last 2 Batman films. The setting and cinematography I could care less about...What I hated was the way the two villains of Two Face and The Riddler were played out as. They both were worthless, laughable villains. In the comics, Two Face and The Riddler are two of Batman's greatest pathological, sadistic villains.



Again, Burton's films have its flaws, but this thread is not about them. This thread is about whether or not Batman Forever was a decent Batman film. And in my opinion, I feel it wasn't.


you said you doubt he read a comic in his life, and i just felt i should say something to that..

and i know forever was not a take of the 60s version, but there were some mild hints as such

[Chomp]

you said you doubt he read a comic in his life, and i just felt i should say something to that..


Where did I say that I doubted if Schumacher read the comics?

I was the first one in this thread to state Schumacher is a big fan of Batman comics....http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

[GuestStar2004]

i thought that was why you found it funny, as you doubted it was true!

sorry but i thought that was what you was getting at! :S

[Proximo]

Batman Forever is a decent movie for me, i enjoy watching it. But the movie overall isnt "good" just decent...
All movies have flaws... but on Forever the flaws really started major... then B&R..

[BatmanRules33]

i think the "flaws" that burton made are forgiveable, but in BF and B&R, they are just too "out there" to be forgiveable, IMO.

[GL-Corps#28]

I've gotta say, I just recently got around to watching all of the batfilms. I'd seen them all before, but not since I'd become a hopeless fanboy. And I have to say, none of them really impress me at all. They all have lements that I enjoy, and I would put maybe two of them in the "Movies I like" category, but all around I was just really disappointed.:(

[I_believe_you]

I've gotta say, I just recently got around to watching all of the batfilms. I'd seen them all before, but not since I'd become a hopeless fanboy. And I have to say, none of them really impress me at all. They all have lements that I enjoy, and I would put maybe two of them in the "Movies I like" category, but all around I was just really disappointed.:(

Couldnt have said it better myself.

[hammerhedd11]

Dark movie!!!!:)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHANEVER SAY THAT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!




*coughs*:p

[Whack Arnolds]

BF was enjoyeable on its first viewing, add to the fact I was like 9 when I saw it. But repeat viewings it severly blows cow nuts.

[TheZoomZoomKid]

It's the best out of the four movies.

[Whack Arnolds]

It's the best out of the four movies.Hahaha, Good joke, I get it. :) :up:

[GL-Corps#28]

I agree with him.:confused:

[BatmanRules33]

B89 and BR were, for me, the most enjoyable, everything after that was mediocre and/or horrid.

[_achilles_]

B89 and BR were, for me, the most enjoyable, everything after that was mediocre and/or horrid.

i agree with that

[GLREBORN]

:) Yes It Was A Decent Movie. Not Great But Decent.:)

[Whack Arnolds]

The best part of Batman Forever is Seal's "Kiss from a Rose".... :)

[graveyardtramp]

A little bit off the topic, but when BF came out in Australia I was doing film and video reviews on a Melbourne radio show, and the main host of the show got to interview Tommy Lee Jones via telephone. Jones was in Queensland to promote the movie and also the opening of Warner Brothers Movie World, and during the interview Jones had some VERY terse things to say about the movie, the director and Jim Carey (among which were his claims that Carey - at the height of his fame - got his way in every scene regardless of how the other actors felt, and that while filming the climax of the film none of the actors had any idea what the hell was going on). Anyway a Warner Brothers rep was obviously in the room with Jones during the interview, and after it was over she called up the host of the radio show I was part of and told him that if the interview went to air the show would never get any help from Warner in the future....

The interview never did air, and I wish I had obtained a tape of it, now that I am no longer part of the show (although it is still airing). But it was obvious that the film was not a good experience for Jones, probably one of the reasons he doesn't discuss it much these days.

Of course I have no way to back this up, but it certainly did happen.....

Anyway just thought you might find it interesting.....

I also remember there was a one-hour Australian BF television special hosted by Ray Martin (popular Aus TV host), and he interviewed Kilmer via satellite and Kilmer for the most part just stared at the screen and said very little...I remember Ray Martin saying something to the effect that Kilmer may be the best Batman we have seen to date, but as an interview subject he was entirely unhelpful and uncooperative....

[Two-Face]

It's not just Jones had problem with Schumacher it's so Val Kilmer and others played in Batman Forever. I think Kilmer would had been good Batman if Forever was darker lke Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns next to Michael Keaton.

[Tobiaswins]

I friggin hated that movie! Man where do I start?

Well the first thing that comes to mind is how Batman makes himself known to the general public. Now I'm no comic book reader and I could be wrong on this, but to me, Batman has always been a mystery to the general public, and not someone who shows up to a public court hearing in full costume.
I also agree that two face was way way way way off. The Riddler was messed up also, again I could be wrong on this, but to me the Riddler was always kind of a behind the scenes villian, not someone who robs banks and acts crazy. To me the Riddler should be calm and cool, like a person who thinks they have all the answers. Robin seemed to old to me, and what is up with the Batcave being seperated from Wayne Manor by a simple wooden door. And did anyone else notice that when the alarm was sounded in the cave, you know "intruder allert", that instead of everything being locked down, it becomes exposed, the car and everything. The whole two girlfriends thing for two face was a novel idea, but I thought it sucked on screen.

There are more, but I'll give it a rest for now.

peace. :cool:

[R3M3D1]

The best part of Batman Forever is Seal's "Kiss from a Rose".... :)

The U2 track was betterhttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

It was a good action flick, nothing special.

There were some good action/stunt scenes in it though.

'Kilmer' Batman was a better fighter than 'Keaton' Batman IMO.

[Antinicolae]

I friggin hated that movie! Man where do I start?

Well the first thing that comes to mind is how Batman makes himself known to the general public. Now I'm no comic book reader and I could be wrong on this, but to me, Batman has always been a mystery to the general public, and not someone who shows up to a public court hearing in full costume.
I also agree that two face was way way way way off. The Riddler was messed up also, again I could be wrong on this, but to me the Riddler was always kind of a behind the scenes villian, not someone who robs banks and acts crazy. To me the Riddler should be calm and cool, like a person who thinks they have all the answers. Robin seemed to old to me, and what is up with the Batcave being seperated from Wayne Manor by a simple wooden door. And did anyone else notice that when the alarm was sounded in the cave, you know "intruder allert", that instead of everything being locked down, it becomes exposed, the car and everything. The whole two girlfriends thing for two face was a novel idea, but I thought it sucked on screen.

There are more, but I'll give it a rest for now.

peace. :cool:

I had never given the courtroom scene a second thought until now, but it does seem pretty comical that batman showed up in court. And when the film first came out, I didn't think about the entrance to the cave. However, when I watched it a few weeks ago, it really didn't make much sense. Also, words cannot describe the improbability of the bank vault swinging back into its original position.

[WhiteRat]

Batman Forever was the ONLY Batman movie that was halfway decent.The other three were all just plain dog doo.

[Flame on!]

It's not the best Batman film ever made, but it's a damn enjoyable ride.

[Batty for Bats!]

Hmm... Good Question!..
I believe it is decent for an average..
The first viewing in theaters IMO kicked ass except the ever present architecture of goofy-land instead of the more gothic architecture that i came to love in Burton's films.
The second viewing was at my home whenever it came out on vhs. It was okay at best, i started to pick up on all the weird and out of place things.
The third viewing was 2 years later after i saw it last. That sucked. The only good thing about it was Kilmer's portrayal of both Bruce and Bats.. Not to mention Kidman's... never mind. Everything stupid stuck out like a sore thumb. Alot was mentioned by Tobiaswins. Observation and perception picks up alot from whenever you are 9to 16ish.

[Guason]

Why would Two Face die for his coin if he did what he pleased, anyways?
I don´t get it.

[Kevin Roegele]

I'm one of the biggest supporters of Forever on the Hype. Apart from the admittedly bad lapses into camp, and Tommy Lee-Jones, it's a fantastic movie. Here is my five-point defence of the movie.

1. There's so much packed into it! Two-Face's revenge, Edward Nygma becoming the Riddler. Dick Grayson becoming Robin, Chase and Bruce, Bruce giving up Batman, Bruce's forgotten memories resurfacing, Batcave being destroyed, the Batboat and the new Batwing.....somehow all the elements are tied together perfectly. Proberbaly the best script for any superhero movie - and if you read the original drafts or the novel, it was even before.



2. Tommy Lee-Jones' Two-Face is no more silly or campy than Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin. Jim Carrey is not at fault here, his crazy lunatic is hilarious and at times creepy. It's the fact that Two-Face isn't nasty and serious enough that unbalances the bad guys.

3. Visually awesome. Despite two much neon at times, cinematography is superb. The Batcave looks fantastic. Best costumes in any superhero movie, Robin has never looked better (except for you know what). It looks like the world comicbooks imagine, rather than trying to make a comic come to life ala Dick Tracy.


4. Casting. Val Kilmer. Bob Kane said he was the closest to the character he created. Nicole Kidman is great, taking it seriously but playing slightly larger than for a normal film. She looks literally twice as good here as she ever has done anywhere else. Chris O'Donnell does proberbaly his best ever work as Dick, and his anger and sadness and youthful naivety really come thru in his scenes with Bruce.

http://www.batmans.de/Galerie/bm95/004.jpg

5. It's really guilty by association with Batman Forever. Few people actually realise they are quite different movies, despite the similarities. Simply but, Batman Forever is a serious movie with silly elements. Batman & Robin is the same movie with those elements reversed.

[Vile]

I hated the movie almost as much as I did Batman and Robin - For many reasons, mind you, many that have been stated already.

The biggest is two words - ROCK. CLIMBING.

Bruce, in an effort to get laid tells Chase he's going rock climbing this weekend and would like her to come along...All the while Two-Face, supposed crazed killer and all, is on the loose.

Nice to know Batman, despite having INSANE SERIAL KILLERS WANDERING ABOUT, takes his weekends off.

That movie was NOT the Batman we know who, oh I dont know, made a vow that what happened to his parents would never happen to anyone else...but that comes second to a weekend get-away!

[Supermaniac]

for just your average everyday guy i'd say its a descent movie for a hardcore Bat fan it is not.

[P. Cushing]

That's not true at all. It's been reported that Tommy Lee Jones knew about Two-Face and wanted to do an accurate comic depiction of him; however, Joel wanted him to act like he did in the movie and that's what ultimately led to them not getting along on the set.
Wrong. The tension between Jones and Schumacher was because Schumacher was pissed at Jones for his relentless muggin and trying to outdo Carrey.

[P. Cushing]

Batman has always been a mystery to the general public, and not someone who shows up to a public court hearing in full costume.
He was doing that kind of thing all the time from 1940-1970.

[P. Cushing]

Bob Kane said he was the closest to the character he created.
I didn't see Kilmer running around in a domino mask and red tights! Besides, he also said that about Clooney.

[P. Cushing]

There's a number of things I like about BF:
1. Kilmer. He made an effort to continue Keaton's portrayal of Batman and was more of a 70s Comics type Bruce Wayne.
2. Recurring duality. Batman and Robin are a duo. So are Riddler and Two-Face. Batman has two identities. Riddler is after one and Two-Face is after the other. Batman has to choose between Chase (Bruce Wayne) and Robin (The Batman). Two-Face has a split personality, Riddler uses his Nigma identity as a front.
3. The scene between Bruce and Dick after Dick takes the mobile for a ride. Kilmer, O'Donnell and Gough all do a great job and the scripting is excellent.
4. Dick and Bruce's character arcs are both excellently done.
5. Nicole Kidman never looked so good.
6. The opening scenes are classic Batman. He suits up, swings in, confrences with Gordon and takes on the villain and his henchmen.
7. Michael Gough.
8. The Diary subplot. Even though most of it was edited out of the final cut by the bastards at WB.
8. The panther suit is excellent (except for the nipples).
9. The fight sequences are very well done.
10. Cinematography is great.
11. Two-Face's opening monologue is great, and Jones's best performance in the whole film.
12. They came up with a good reason for him changing his suit, not just doing it for the sake of it.
13. Robin's suit was very good.

[The Guard]

Some of them I did...but I was speaking about in the movie. They were way too easiliy figured out by Batman. The riddles are usually truely thought provoking, complicated, perplexing riddles that the police cannot solve. In BF, Batman solves each riddle in a matter of minutes of recieving them.

Understand now smartass?

Yes, but apparently you don't.

The Riddler's riddles have never been extremely brilliant or difficult in the comics. They are not difficult if you have the right mindset and can get into it quickly and see things the way The Riddler does, and Batman has always been able to solve them fairly quickly. For one thing, The Riddler has a compulsion in leaving riddles: He, on some level, wants to be discovered, and he wants to be pursued. He wants Batman to know how smart he is, how much planning went into each caper, and that he's not just the average criminal (even though, though his actions, he is). BATMAN FOREVER nailed this aspect of the character. BATMAN FOREVER nailed a lot. Definitely a decent Batman film, if not a perfect one. More later.

[Infinity9999x]

Wrong. The tension between Jones and Schumacher was because Schumacher was pissed at Jones for his relentless muggin and trying to outdo Carrey.

How exactaly do EITHER of you know what was going on between Jones and Shumacher? Neither of you were there so you can't really comment on it until you ask them both.

[Infinity9999x]

Definitely a decent Batman film, if not a perfect one. More later.[/QUOTE]

A perfect film? Batman had bat-nipples and neon, that alone brings it down from perfect, granted it still is a decent film, but it still wasnt as good as 89 in my own personal opinion.

[Guason]

I thought the BR´s suit was the best.

[The Guard]

A perfect film? Batman had bat-nipples and neon, that alone brings it down from perfect, granted it still is a decent film, but it still wasnt as good as 89 in my own personal opinion.

Ah, the English language...

I meant exactly the opposite of what you thought I meant. I accept that BATMAN FOREVER had it's flaws. I still think it was a very decent Batman film, and a good film overall.

[Infinity9999x]

Ohhh ok I understand now I had to read the sentence again to get the meaning. lol and yes the english language does have a tendancy to confuse easily.

[Vile]

I agree that the riddles left to Batman were too easily solved...True, in the comics Bats always seemed to get them right on but we as the reader usually didnt. Horrible lines in that scene as well..."

"How about...Mr. E?" "Mystery!" "Another name for a mystery?" "An enigma!" *We watch as the wheels turn, though it's painfully obvious* "Mr E. Nigma...EDWARD NIGMA!"

Yeah okay..and the huge brainsucking blender demonic island being built in the middle of the bay wasnt the first clue...

[Riven]

Yeah okay..and the huge brainsucking blender demonic island being built in the middle of the bay wasnt the first clue...
Never mock the huge brainsucking blender demonic island! It is wise and terrible! :p

http://www.kesigndesign.com/medium/batman3a.jpg

[Chomp]

The Riddler's riddles have never been extremely brilliant or difficult in the comics. They are not difficult if you have the right mindset and can get into it quickly and see things the way The Riddler does, and Batman has always been able to solve them fairly quickly. For one thing, The Riddler has a compulsion in leaving riddles: He, on some level, wants to be discovered, and he wants to be pursued. He wants Batman to know how smart he is, how much planning went into each caper, and that he's not just the average criminal (even though, though his actions, he is).

Does he have a compulsion to leave stupid and lame riddles as well? The Riddler character in the comics has a manic exterior personality that hides his calculating arrogant interior personality; Carrey puts no dimension to the role and plays the Riddler like Ace Ventura on crack. But that is not Carrey's fault. Jim was given such horrible material to work with to become the Riddler, that he had to adopt his own flair into the character, which ultimately overpowered any minimal elemets of The Riddler that Carrey was given. Jim did this to ensure his character could be recognized throughout the film...because his riddles certainly left nothing of a mark.

The riddler in BF makes me appreciate Frank Gorshin.

Definitely a decent Batman film, if not a perfect one.

Yea definately a perfect Bat-film, especially with the likes of these great aspects:

-A mockery of what Batman really is
-The portrayal of Burce Wayne as a spoiled brat that didn't get his way rather than a vengeful person with motive to stop evil.
-Batman being transformed into a commercial shill for the WB to sell merchandise
-A Robin in his MID-TWENTIES
-A physically goofy and loud Two-Face
-Riddles that the Riddler conceives are stupid and predictable
-A love interest that felt like a cardboard cut out
-The moronic action (a grappling hook swinging a bank vault into a skyscraper)
-Camp, comedy, and over the top stunts
-CGI city...Gotham felt like it was built in a studio behind a blue screen. It was Las Vegas, not Gotham

What?!?!?!...That is Batman to a T!
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Give me a f@#$ing break...

[Furious Styles]

I'm of the mind that it was a decent "Batman" film in general. It had it's good points, as well as its bad points. I think the original Director's Cut had the ability to help the film moreso than anything. It had a pretty decent cast, but I just think it was style over substance. Some of the characters were misplayed somewhat or didn't come across as well as the characters could have.

I think it was a throwback to the Batman television series. All in all though, because I don't want to get into specifics, I thought it was watchable. It wasn't particularly as good as B'89, but it wasn't as bad as B&R. I think it is in the buffer zone. Some people like it because it isn't Keaton/Burton, some people hate it because of Schumacher and some people are in the middle.

[P. Cushing]

Yea definately a perfect Bat-film, especially with the likes of these great aspects:


Are you ****ing blind? The Guard stated that it was NOT a perfect Batman film, as he explicitly explained to a previous poster who made the mistake of thinking as you did. Next time, read the whole thread.

[The Guard]

Why BATMAN FOREVER is decent?

Good acting from Val Kilmer, Nicole Kidman and Michael Gough

Great scenes like:

Like someone else said, the opening, Suiting up, which has become a stable of comic book films now, driving to Gotham, Batman swinging down to confront Chase and Commissioner Gordon, and giving his take on the situation, then going inside, kicking ass, saving the guard's life and going for a ride on the copter. And yes, Two-Face's opening monologue was good, too.

Batman rescuing Dick to be attacked and having to explain his actions. "If Bruce Wayne could have given his life for your parents...he would have."

The death of Dick Grayson's parents and the entire circus scene leading up to it.

The joining of Batman and Robin, and the stuff that comes before it, like Bruce's speech about the nature of vengeance. Dick Grayson's character, period, was fantastic. He was a laughing young daredevil without being over the top or campy. He was also pretty darn capable as a fighter/acrobat.

Anything involving Bruce's psychology about his parents, and how he remembers pieces about how he came to be The Batman. And yes, the duality/split personalities thing was all throughout the story.

Chase Meridian. A love interest that was neither dumb or weak, but still managed to make a good damsel in distress. Her role in Bruce's life was fantastic, her performance sizzled and hit all the right emotional notes. The rooftop scene was fantastic, as was the bedroom scene. Shades of Silver. St. Cloud.

Cinematography was indeed wonderful.

The suits, including both the Batsuit and the Robin suit, were fantastic. The Riddler also had some great costumes, and Two-Face's, while over the top, came right out of the comics and was well done.

I agree that the riddles left to Batman were too easily solved...True, in the comics Bats always seemed to get them right on but we as the reader usually didnt. Horrible lines in that scene as well..."

"How about...Mr. E?" "Mystery!" "Another name for a mystery?" "An enigma!" *We watch as the wheels turn, though it's painfully obvious* "Mr E. Nigma...EDWARD NIGMA!"

Why are those horrible lines? That's what The Riddler wanted. To be discovered.

Yeah okay..and the huge brainsucking blender demonic island being built in the middle of the bay wasnt the first clue...

No one said that didn't suck. But if The Riddler's going to be a threat...

Does he have a compulsion to leave stupid and lame riddles as well?

Stupid and lame riddles would be "What has four legs, and ticks?" The riddles that Riddler left were not simple to solve (despite what our resident geniuses pretend to have done), nor was the manner in which they came together to point out the Riddler's identity simple.

The Riddler character in the comics has a manic exterior personality that hides his calculating arrogant interior personality; Carrey puts no dimension to the role and plays the Riddler like Ace Ventura on crack.

Except for when he was reserved, for instance when he was playing Nygma, not The Riddler, or wanted to get a point across. Maybe you should read some comics that featured The Riddler before Jeph Loeb got ahold of him. He went around giggling, screaming things and ranting and raving quite a bit. Yes, there was a lot of Jim Carrey in his performance, and it worked pretty well.

But that is not Carrey's fault. Jim was given such horrible material to work with to become the Riddler, that he had to adopt his own flair into the character, which ultimately overpowered any minimal elemets of The Riddler that Carrey was given. Jim did this to ensure his character could be recognized throughout the film...because his riddles certainly left nothing of a mark.

Which elements of The Riddler weren't shown?

-A mockery of what Batman really is

How so?

-The portrayal of Burce Wayne as a spoiled brat that didn't get his way rather than a vengeful person with motive to stop evil.

You didn't watch this movie, did you?

"I would use its image to strike fear into the hearts of those that would do evil. I would have my revenge."

-Batman being transformed into a commercial shill for the WB to sell merchandise

Like he's not in every other version he's ever been?

-A Robin in his MID-TWENTIES

Actually he was supposed to be 18. I've seen a lot of 18 year olds that look like that. Especially athletes.

-A physically goofy and loud Two-Face

Are you referring to his outfit or just his personality?

-Riddles that the Riddler conceives are stupid and predictable

Because you figured out exactly what he was doing right off the bat, right?

-A love interest that felt like a cardboard cut out

Hardly. She was anything but a Bond girl type.

-The moronic action (a grappling hook swinging a bank vault into a skyscraper)

Let's talk about cars that leaps across rooftops. Was it realistic? Not really. Did it obey the laws of physics? Not really. Neither do half the things you see in the comics. That scene was cool.

-Camp, comedy, and over the top stunts

God forbid a Batman film have a little camp and a little humor. You know, since the comics are completely devoid of it. Over the top stunts such as...

-CGI city...Gotham felt like it was built in a studio behind a blue screen. It was Las Vegas, not Gotham

Looked like Gotham to me.

[hulkamania85]

I thought Batman Forever was not nearly as good as the first two but still all right. Some problems:

-Bat nipples. A hint of things to come
-"I'll get drive through". Another hint of things to come.
-Gotham not as gothic. Not too big a deal because it was still dark enough, but the old look for Gotham was better.
-Two-Face was more like Joker 2 than his own character.

I thought Jim Carrey was a great Riddler even though he'd be a better Joker. I liked having Robin in a Batman movie even though it would have made a little more sense to have Robin be younger.

[Chomp]

Good acting from Val Kilmer, Nicole Kidman and Michael Gough

Val Kilmer will NEVER be considered Batman to me. The guy was a stiff...literally, he was stiff. Two Face could have thrown his coin at Val and it would have bounced about 10 feet in the other direction. Also, Val had no facial expressions whatsoever. He looked like he had the glazed over look of just being hit over the head with a hammer. If you are going to be an actor, its a little hard to get into the mind of the acting, when you have no physical mannerisms. Keaton had faical expressions. Everytime he gave a squint or a frown, or the movement of his lips, you knew EXACTLY what he was thinking. He had a readable face...Kilmer does not.

Nicole Kidman's part as Chase is just a recycled rehash of several other psychologists. It was a cardboard cut-out with no entertaining aspects at all. But by far she was the best actor in the film.


Stupid and lame riddles would be "What has four legs, and ticks?" The riddles that Riddler left were not simple to solve (despite what our resident geniuses pretend to have done), nor was the manner in which they came together to point out the Riddler's identity simple.

Give me a break. That sounds like a riddle a teacher would give her third grade students. You show me ONE riddle from the comics that is as lame as any of those from BF...show me. And it has to be from a comic that is from well respectible source material. Even riddles from BTAS are far superior than anything from BF, and its a kid's show!: "Shall we play the Riddler's game; with meaning changed but word the same? Then find the founder who found fame before he founders in his name." This is probably my favorite from the TV series.

I maybe influenced by Jeph, but let's face it, he put The Riddler on the map as being one of Batman's greatest villains. The Riddler was pretty much a small villain before that.


You didn't watch this movie, did you?


I wish I hadn't.


Like he's not in every other version he's ever been?

Not to BF's extent.


Actually he was supposed to be 18. I've seen a lot of 18 year olds that look like that. Especially athletes.[/quotes]

He didn't look 18 to me...unless you see a lot of maturely developed 18 year olds. Face it, he looked old...too old to play Robin.


[QUOTE=The Guard]
Are you referring to his outfit or just his personality?

His personality...he played exactly like Joker before him. It seemed as if he only had one side in the movie...lame.



Because you figured out exactly what he was doing right off the bat, right?

Have you forgotten my posts already?



Hardly. She was anything but a Bond girl type.

Yea, she was a cardboard cut...nothing new, just a rehash of other characters from other movies. It actually felt as if Chase was a character from another film...like she was digitally manipulated into the screen from another film. Boring.



Let's talk about cars that leaps across rooftops. Was it realistic? Not really. Did it obey the laws of physics? Not really. Neither do half the things you see in the comics. That scene was cool.

How old are you 12? What's cool is Batman gliding through the air with bats, breaking in from an above window, that Batmobile looking sleak yet different...BF's Batmobiles was just different...and hideous if you ask me. It also seemed totally impractical.


God forbid a Batman film have a little camp and a little humor. You know, since the comics are completely devoid of it. Over the top stunts such as...

A little? The whole goddamn script was developed by camp and humor.


Looked like Gotham to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Chomp_on_this/GC.jpg

Of course it did.http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Gotham City is suppose to be Gothic...The 3 D's: Dark, depressing, decaying. BF's Gotham City was full of colorful buildings that lit up the night sky as if you were taking a stroll through the strip.

The animators didn't draw over black paper for nothing, while constructing Gotham for BTAS.

Look, I am glad you like the film...at least someone does. But for me, it wasn't Batman. It wasn't Batman and it wasn't a good film. We can argue this case Forever, but you nor will anybody change my mind on this atrocity of a Batman film, let alone a theatrical film.

Are you ****ing blind? The Guard stated that it was NOT a perfect Batman film, as he explicitly explained to a previous poster who made the mistake of thinking as you did. Next time, read the whole thread.

Next time, STFU.

[Vile]

Why are those horrible lines? That's what The Riddler wanted. To be discovered.


Really? Well instead of leaving crappy Riddles (which anyone with an IQ over that of what I keep my THERMOSTAT at could solve) he should have just left a big ol' sign that said EDWARD NIGMA = RIDDLER - oh thats right, HE DID (AGAIN) with the huge ass claw base in the middle of the bay...not to mention chatting with Two-Face openly when the Joker-wannabe 'crashed' his party.

Then again, you can't blame Batman for all this...he was supposed to be rock climbing that weekend.

[The Batman]

I like Batman Forever more than i like Batman Returns

Val gave a good performance as Batman. Sometimes, i feel its even better than Keatons. His whole look as Bruce/Batman was great. The suit, besides the nipples, was probably the best Bat-outfit. The Bruce/Dick drama was great, and they did a better job of looking into Bruce's psyche better than in the first two flicks. Hell, did we even really get into Bruce's head in Returns? The action was definetely better, especially the first fight scene.

Tommy Lee Jones couldve done a better job as Two-Face. And I dont know why everyone comes in and says Riddler's such as psycho in the comics, cause i dont remember it like that. In fact, besides the 60's TV show, I always thought Riddler was kind of a lameass.

[Chomp]

Then again, you can't blame Batman for all this...he was supposed to be rock climbing that weekend.

LMAO...too true. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

And I dont know why everyone comes in and says Riddler's such as psycho in the comics, cause i dont remember it like that. In fact, besides the 60's TV show, I always thought Riddler was kind of a lameass.

It's true, The Riddler has often been disreguarded as a main villain, until in recent years where he was actually brought to a form that quite possibly could be a larger than life villain. The Riddler could have his own film if it was to ever happen.

I recommend reading Hush or TLH. The Riddler, undoubtedly has the highest IQ of all Batman's foes. Cold, aloof, and possessed of a steely wit. The Riddler, unlike many of the other members of Batman's rogues gallery, is more of a cerebral than physical villain. Although he is quite suited for physical combat and often has weapons ready for use, he has probably always been among the least homicidal of the major Bat nemises; indeed, one story showed him lamenting the rise of murderous villains.

Edward's transformation allows him to lose all sense of reality. He becomes completely wrapped up in the evil and criminal behavior which is warping his mind. He needs to be the Riddler to truly express the real Edward Nygma, in turn completely separating himself from any normalcy he once had.

You honestly don't see the psychosis involved with The Riddler?

[The Batman]

Hush and TLH were produced before BF, so they didnt really focus on his psychosis.

I mean, even the BTAS crew admitted they didnt use him much....

[Chomp]

They may not have used much in BTAS, but they hit The Riddler dead on as far as I am concerned.

[Two-Face]

Hush and TLH were produced before BF, so they didnt really focus on his psychosis.


You're wrong Hush was pubilshed in (2004) and LTH was published in (1999) after Batman Forever (1995)

[neobido9999]

Two-Face's opening monologue is great

I 100% agree. It belongs in a different (awesome) movie. The rest is neon coated crap, but that first 3 minutes, ending at "let's start this party with a bang!" were great.

"One man is born a hero, his brother a coward, Babies starve, politicians grow fat. Holy men are martyred, and junkies grow legion. Why? Why, why, why, why, why? Luck!"

[The Batman]

i did mean after. sorry...

[neobido9999]

To me the Riddler should be calm and cool, like a person who thinks they have all the answers

agreed, i imagine him a cross between Kaiser Soze and Half Life's G Man, appearing in the distance, on the fringes of mayhem he's caused

[Two-Face]

You when Two Face cames to Edward's party and Bruce goes to car to put on the suit but how can he wearing rubber suit in the car? I would understand if suit was leather.

[The Guard]

The biggest is two words - ROCK. CLIMBING.

Bruce, in an effort to get laid tells Chase he's going rock climbing this weekend and would like her to come along...All the while Two-Face, supposed crazed killer and all, is on the loose.

Nice to know Batman, despite having INSANE SERIAL KILLERS WANDERING ABOUT, takes his weekends off.

First, Bruce Wayne, in the old days, used to actually date women he liked. WAIT...he STILL DOES in the comics! Second, they were not insane serial killers, they were just insane (And The Riddler didn't exist yet, I don't think). Third, did you think he was going rock climbing at night? Bruce Wayne does tend to fill his daytimes with playboy/diversionary activities.

That movie was NOT the Batman we know who, oh I dont know, made a vow that what happened to his parents would never happen to anyone else...but that comes second to a weekend get-away!

Why wasn't it the Batman we know again? Some more examples, please.

Two-Face was more like Joker 2 than his own character.

Once again...even Nicholson's Joker in BATMAN didn't have this explosive and violent a personality. Tommy Lee Jones played his character as a classic, insane supervillain, within the boundaries of what Two-Face was and always has been, and what the script allowed him to do. He was not channelling The Joker. Laughing as a supervillain does not make one a ripoff of The Joker.

I thought Jim Carrey was a great Riddler even though he'd be a better Joker. I liked having Robin in a Batman movie even though it would have made a little more sense to have Robin be younger.

Why would it have made more sense to have Robin be younger? If anything, it made sense to have him be 18.

Val Kilmer will NEVER be considered Batman to me. The guy was a stiff...literally, he was stiff.

Two Face could have thrown his coin at Val and it would have bounced about 10 feet in the other direction. Also, Val had no facial expressions whatsoever. He looked like he had the glazed over look of just being hit over the head with a hammer. If you are going to be an actor, its a little hard to get into the mind of the acting, when you have no physical mannerisms. Keaton had faical expressions. Everytime he gave a squint or a frown, or the movement of his lips, you knew EXACTLY what he was thinking. He had a readable face...Kilmer does not.

Hello...Bruce Wayne...Batman...

Nicole Kidman's part as Chase is just a recycled rehash of several other psychologists. It was a cardboard cut-out with no entertaining aspects at all. But by far she was the best actor in the film.

Nevermind that everything has been done and that there's nothing wrong with borrowing elements that work, but I'll call your bluff. Tell me about another film where a psychologist helps a brooding superhero with his dark past and his parents. Or anything even close. And if you name something post-1994, I'm going to laugh.

Give me a break. That sounds like a riddle a teacher would give her third grade students. You show me ONE riddle from the comics that is as lame as any of those from BF...show me.

"What you call twins both named William?"

"What's the laziest mountain in the world."

"Where do cows go on a date?"

"How do you keep an idiot waiting?"

"How does a boat show it's affection?"

These are all riddles The Riddler has used before, in just one issue, actually.

[quote]And it has to be from a comic that is from well respectible source material.

Oh. Ok...

"When does a killer not kill?"

Even riddles from BTAS are far superior than anything from BF, and its a kid's show!: "Shall we play the Riddler's game; with meaning changed but word the same? Then find the founder who found fame before he founders in his name." This is probably my favorite from the TV series.

That's all well and good. But it has nothing to do with putting together several riddles to create the name "Mr. E". Which was the point of the riddles in BATMAN FOREVER. Obviously you forgot that to do that, there had to be some thinking involved.

I maybe influenced by Jeph, but let's face it, he put The Riddler on the map as being one of Batman's greatest villains. The Riddler was pretty much a small villain before that.

What's your point?

Not to BF's extent.

Let's talk about BATMAN BEGINS merchandising, shall we?

His personality...he played exactly like Joker before him. It seemed as if he only had one side in the movie...lame.

I'm not going to go over this again. See above for my points on Joker/Two-Face comparisons. And he clearly didn't have just one side, but one side was firmly in control most of the time. You know, the way Two-Face was for years in the comics after he became Two-Face?

Have you forgotten my posts already?

No I haven't. Nor do I believe for a second that you solved those riddles as quickly as you claim to have. How old are you, btw? Because if it's anything under 18, I'm gonna have to not believe your amazing riddle-solving abilities.

Yea, she was a cardboard cut...nothing new, just a rehash of other characters from other movies. It actually felt as if Chase was a character from another film...like she was digitally manipulated into the screen from another film. Boring.[;/quote]

Which other movies are these now? Quick now, specific examples.

[quote]How old are you 12?

Old enough to know when to use a comma.

What's cool is Batman gliding through the air with bats, breaking in from an above window, that Batmobile looking sleak yet different...BF's Batmobiles was just different...and hideous if you ask me. It also seemed totally impractical.

When did I say anything about The Batmobile?

A little? The whole goddamn script was developed by camp and humor.

No, the whole goddam script wasn't.

"Then, it will happen like this. You find Two-Face, and you kill him..."

...cue scene where family falls to their deaths.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v..._on_this/GC.jpg

That's one shot. You forgot the daytime shots. And the parts of Gotham that weren't all neon.

Look, I am glad you like the film...at least someone does. But for me, it wasn't Batman.

Why? All you've come with so far is your ridiculous rock climbing argument.

[P. Cushing]

You show me ONE riddle from the comics that is as lame as any of those from BF...show me.

What letter is 9 inches long?
Y becayse it's one fourth of a yard.

Why is the letter A like a honeysuckle?
Because it's always followed by a "B".

Why is a room full of married couples like an empty room?
Because there isn't a single person in it.

[P. Cushing]

They may not have used much in BTAS, but they hit The Riddler dead on as far as I am concerned.
They decided early on that they wouldn't rely on dodgy riddles, instead focusing on his psyche.

[Vile]

First, Bruce Wayne, in the old days, used to actually date women he liked. WAIT...he STILL DOES in the comics! Second, they were not insane serial killers, they were just insane (And The Riddler didn't exist yet, I don't think). Third, did you think he was going rock climbing at night? Bruce Wayne does tend to fill his daytimes with playboy/diversionary activities.


First off, I've no qualms with Wayne playing the playboy route and dating - My point is, do it IN TOWN.

Second, okay, maybe they arnt serial killers (Though I would question this further, but for the sake of time..) Them 'just being insane' doesnt really make them less than a threat. After all, Two-face had no problem with gunning down Robin's family and almost boiling a man to death with acid...so, what do we got? Insane? Check. Killer? Check. Then again, Two-Face come off about as threatening and frightening as a pair of wet boxers. Between his stupid maniacal laughter and his dancing around it's a wonder he had time to show the Riddler how to PUNCH A GUY.

The quote is, "Look, I'm going rock climbing this weekend", and it sounds to me like a weekend getaway. Now, I could be wrong - in the horrible version of Las Veg-er, Gotham City perhaps it's surrounded by a mountain range...or perhaps he scales the Statue of Liberty thats magically in the harbor...but I doubt it. Now then, since they are leaving town for the weekend are you trying to convince me he's going to fly back to Gotham every night? God, I could only imagine his excuse! "Oh Bruce, how romantic!" "...I gatta go! It's almost dusk! And...well, I have a meeting. A business meeting. With business people. That lasts....all night. I'll be back in the morning! But only for the day! Then I have..another meeting. Did I mention its quite impossible that I'm Batman?"

As to the Riddles used, come ON. "The Riddles all have numbers..and they correspond to...THE ALPHABET!" "Perhaps he's spelling out his name, sir?" "...He's a crafty one, this Riddler."

That whole scene was just tormenting to watch - I would have prefered if when Bruce figured out the numbers would correspond to letters that Alfred would remind him, "But sir! You dont KNOW the alphabet!" Because then Bruce would have to go to the Library and FINALLY WE'D GET SOME DAMN DETECTIVE WORK.

Come on! numbers coresponding to the alphabet?!?! Gimme a break!

"Mr. E Nigma!" *The whindup...and the pitch...* "Edward Nigma!" *And the crowd goes WILD!*

[Chomp]

I'm not going to go over this again. See above for my points on Joker/Two-Face comparisons. And he clearly didn't have just one side, but one side was firmly in control most of the time. You know, the way Two-Face was for years in the comics after he became Two-Face?

Because we all know, when Two-Face doesn't like the results of his coin, he flips it a second time...http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


No, the whole goddam script wasn't.

"Then, it will happen like this. You find Two-Face, and you kill him..."

...cue scene where family falls to their deaths

Awwwwwww....LAME.

That's all well and good. But it has nothing to do with putting together several riddles to create the name "Mr. E". Which was the point of the riddles in BATMAN FOREVER. Obviously you forgot that to do that, there had to be some thinking involved.

The way Bruce solved them was rediculous.


Let's talk about BATMAN BEGINS merchandising, shall we?


Go ahead...no skin off my back.



Old enough to know when to use a comma.

You should be one to talk...LoL.


That's one shot. You forgot the daytime shots. And the parts of Gotham that weren't all neon.

Most of the scenes took place at night.


Why? All you've come with so far is your ridiculous rock climbing argument.

That wasn't mine, try again.

[The Kid]

I'd put it right up there with Spider-man 2.

I know that angers some of you spiderboys, but really, watch both films back to back, kiss your pet, and tell me you don't think they share something.

SM franchise gets unlimited praise while everyone takes a dump on shoemaker's films, and rightfully so, because certain things are just plain stupid. Bat nipples. Organic webshooters. Your Cliche mustache twirling villians. Parts are great, parts are crap... etc. etc...

If a better spiderman flick had been made before SM1 and 2, everyone would excrete nice big creamy piles on Raimi's light action flicks too. LOL.

Batman forever is a pretty darn good action flick, but not a good enough batman film to many. Just like spiderman's a pretty darn good action flick, but just not a good enough Spiderman film.

my thoughts...

[Captain_Obvious]

I remember wanting to look like Dr. Chase Merdian and realized it would be cool to be a psychologist...

Thanks Batman Forever!

[Infinity9999x]

SM franchise gets unlimited praise while everyone takes a dump on shoemaker's films, and rightfully so, because certain things are just plain stupid. Bat nipples. Organic webshooters.

I think Bat nipples are a bit more stupid then organic webshooters. I see what you're saying about the movies but really the organic webshooters make sence, why did they make then non organic in the 1st place? I mean who's idea was it to go, okay, we'll give the kid spider powers but NOT the big trademark of a spider, it's web, those he'll have to make by himself. It just seems kinda stupid, if they had wanted to show peter's scientific smarts, they could have him make web shooter like appendages that mix chemicals into his web that perhaps make the web do diffrent things. So really they were probably just giving him organic webshooters because non comic people would wonder why he didn't get that power from the spider, it's a little more reasonable then Bat-nipples, which was just weird. Still though I agree with your analogy, because Rami's films were light hearted action flicks.

[Two-Face]

Because we all know, when Two-Face doesn't like the results of his coin, he flips it a second time...


No, you're wrong, in comics he flips his coin once he wouldn't do it again but in Batman Forever he does it so many times he shoots Bruce in the near head. in comics if coin says not to shoot it won't shoot Bruce.


read this from imdb:

"In the movie, there is a scene where Two Face keeps flipping his coin until he gets a result he wants. In the comics, a key element of his split personality is that he unquestioningly accepts the result of a single coin toss concerning any decision he makes."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112462/trivia

[Captain_Obvious]

No, you're wrong, in comics he flips his coin once he wouldn't do it again but in Batman Forever he does it so many times he shoots Bruce in the near head. in comics if coin says not to shoot it won't shoot Bruce.


read this from imdb:

"In the movie, there is a scene where Two Face keeps flipping his coin until he gets a result he wants. In the comics, a key element of his split personality is that he unquestioningly accepts the result of a single coin toss concerning any decision he makes."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112462/trivia

if you noticed his ":rolleyes:" smiley, you'd understand he was being sarcastic :up:

jesus.

[The Batman]

Jeph loeb made the riddler a serious villain?

Someone never watched the 60's Tv show...

[Mack]

I used to really hate this movie, I felt the film was goofy, the vilains were way over the top and Kilmer lacked the intensity or charisma needed for Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not to mention I thought he looked ridiculous under the cowl with his big lips. I watched it again on TBS a few days ago, and I actually liked it more. Jim Carrey's Riddler was a lot like Gorshin's, and if everyone else in the film was serious, he would of been more effective. The best scenes of the movie involved Chris O'Donnell as Dick Grauson, he made a pretty good older Robin, but his character was written as a non-factor and just another person for Batman to rescue at the end of the movie. Kilmer's Batman voice was pretty good, and his fight scenes were better than Keaton's. He was still dull as a board though. The worst acting in the movie was by far Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face, who did a horrific job as what was Two-Face in name only. Overall, I would rate this movie 6/10, it was a fun mindless action film, but the first two Batman films easily blow it out of the water.

[Kal-El 8]

BATMAN FOREVER is not the best BATMAN movie, but it is not BS like batman & robin is. BATMAN FOREVER overall was a good movie compared to b&r.

[The Guard]

I used to really hate this movie, I felt the film was goofy, the vilains were way over the top and Kilmer lacked the intensity or charisma needed for Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not to mention I thought he looked ridiculous under the cowl with his big lips. I watched it again on TBS a few days ago, and I actually liked it more. Jim Carrey's Riddler was a lot like Gorshin's, and if everyone else in the film was serious, he would of been more effective.

Here's the thing. People bash the FOREVER Riddler for not being serious. When was The Riddler ever that serious? He was about the game, always has been, always will be on some level. He was comical about how he operated in BATMAN FOREVER (it was part of his personality), but he was also deadly serious, within the parameters of the world he inhabited. A world of over-the-top costumed heroes and villains, a fictional city, etc. The Riddler was pretty sinister when you really stop and think about it. He was a genius who killed his boss, stole people's most private information, used people to get what he wanted, and he was a freaking stalker to boot. Was he the darkest villain? No. But The Riddler never really was.

The best scenes of the movie involved Chris O'Donnell as Dick Grauson, he made a pretty good older Robin, but his character was written as a non-factor and just another person for Batman to rescue at the end of the movie.

He wasn't a non-factor at all. The themes of vengeance and his parallells with Bruce, as well as his curious, sometimes dark, but driven nature, were done well, and so was the death of his parents. He was a non-factor because he had to be rescued from a supervillain, after making a pretty good choice not to kill another one of them? That makes every Robin story where that happened in the comics obsolete, I guess. And that would tend to exclude some of the best Robin stories there are.

The worst acting in the movie was by far Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face, who did a horrific job as what was Two-Face in name only.

I consider it one of the best performances of the film. Best PERFORMANCES, not PORTRAYALS. For the most part, I hated how Two-Face was portrayed in this film, but Tommy Lee Jones did it very, very well. He gave a LOT to this role. He easily did the most with, arguably, the least to work with out of anyone of the cast (Well, maybe Pat Hingle had less to work with). Read a comic book from that era, or anything before it. Two-Face looked like that. He was/is over the top. He is prone to spontaneous, violent outbursts. The problem is, Tommy Lee Jones' chracter was so over-the-top and so obsessed with the number two that it became ridiculous and campy. He didnt deliver hardly any of his lines badly or with little energy, though. He crafted two very distinct characters for Two-Face. The problem was, he had nothing to work with to begin with.

[Mack]

Here's the thing. People bash the FOREVER Riddler for not being serious. When was The Riddler ever that serious? He was about the game, always has been, always will be on some level. He was comical about how he operated in BATMAN FOREVER (it was part of his personality), but he was also deadly serious, within the parameters of the world he inhabited. A world of over-the-top costumed heroes and villains, a fictional city, etc. The Riddler was pretty sinister when you really stop and think about it. He was a genius who killed his boss, stole people's most private information, used people to get what he wanted, and he was a freaking stalker to boot. Was he the darkest villain? No. But The Riddler never really was.

I'm not bashing Forever's Riddler for not being serious, I'm saying he would of been more effective if the movie were more serious.


He wasn't a non-factor at all. The themes of vengeance and his parallells with Bruce, as well as his curious, sometimes dark, but driven nature, were done well, and so was the death of his parents. He was a non-factor because he had to be rescued from a supervillain, after making a pretty good choice not to kill another one of them? That makes every Robin story where that happened in the comics obsolete, I guess. And that would tend to exclude some of the best Robin stories there are.

Like I said, I thought he was portrayed well, but he hardly helped to save the day or stop any bad guys. The theme of vengeance against Two-Face was unfulfilled because he never got his vengeance against him. I would of been a lot more satisfied if he, not Batman, were the one to stop him at the end.

[The Guard]

I'm not bashing Forever's Riddler for not being serious, I'm saying he would of been more effective if the movie were more serious.

True. And this dual nature of the film is why so many seem to hate it. Parts of it were deadly serious. Parts of it were a circus.

Like I said, I thought he was portrayed well, but he hardly helped to save the day or stop any bad guys.

Except when he saved that girl from God knows how many glo-stick gang glo-sticks. And I guess he did look kinda cool in the Bat-boat. It was his first time out. A trial by fire, so to speak.

The theme of vengeance against Two-Face was unfulfilled because he never got his vengeance against him.

That was the point. Batman wanted better for Dick, and because of his influence, or his support, Dick chose not to kill Two-Face, but to pursue justice. Eventually, while he did not get vengeance, he did find closure when Two-Face died.

I would of been a lot more satisfied if he, not Batman, were the one to stop him at the end.

Stopped Two-Face? Perhaps, but they needed a way to get them out of that situation that didn't involve Robin killing.

[batmaluco]

It think BF was a half-decent Batman Film that can improve with the inclusion of the deleted scenes. We need a directors cut damnit!

[ab38416]

ab38416

[dude love]

Will you ever stop doing that?

[El Payaso]

It think BF was a half-decent Batman Film that can improve with the inclusion of the deleted scenes.

More or less, yes.

[Kevin Roegele]

I'd put it right up there with Spider-man 2.

Batman forever is a pretty darn good action flick, but not a good enough batman film to many. Just like spiderman's a pretty darn good action flick, but just not a good enough Spiderman film.

my thoughts...

And good ones they are.

One of the main reasons Forever gets so much criticism on these boards is because many fans don't think it's serious enough, and serious means quality in their eyes. Such a lowbrow conceit, but there you have it.

[Parker]

I would have found the film more tolerable if it weren't for the batnipples.

[captain_jimbo]

It's an okay film, but not a great Batman film. I recently watched it again, and it actually surprised me because it's all so campy and over the top, especially from the villains.

...And then came Batman & Robin. F**k me! :eek:

[Proximo]

I think BF is Decent, I think everyone should just forget about the terrible parts in BF and B&R. Lets face it, its getting old.
I enjoy watching the old franchise, Including BF and B&R.
Both BF and B&R have good parts in it, But mostly bad. They are all still good Batman movies. Because all of them are based on a diffrent time period. Just enjoy them all for what they are.
I dont like some parts in Batman Begins aswell, But i still enjoy it like the other movies. Be thankfull for what we have got so far. I am.

[Bat Attack]

Batman Forever has been growing on me recentley. I've been enjoying it much more than I used to. Probably because I'm not such a tight ass about Batman being dark or anything anymore. It's just a fun and enjoyable movie that I can watch all the way through. :up::up:

[CConn]

I think it's "decent". And sorta necessary in showing that lighter side of Batman. Obviously, B&R went way, way too far with it, but BF was sort of a happy medium between the campy, over-the-top comics, and the darker, more enjoyable version of Batman.

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman Forever is only superficially colourful. The themes and characters are all dark, they're a bunch of tortured obsessives. I almost feel Schumacher is trying to disguise the darkness of the screenplay with lights on the surface, knowing most people will only take notice of that.

Look at the ending - Nygma wanted to be Bruce Wayne the whole time, and by the end he gets his wish (he believes he is Bruce after sucking his brain waves) - and everything that comes with it, i.e. Batman. Thus he completely loses any sanity and ends up in a shadowy cell in a straight jacket. That's as dark as anything has been in the Batman movies.

[Gossip Gerty]

Batman Forever is only superficially colourful. The themes and characters are all dark, they're a bunch of tortured obsessives. I almost feel Schumacher is trying to disguise the darkness of the screenplay with lights on the surface, knowing most people will only take notice of that.

Look at the ending - Nygma wanted to be Bruce Wayne the whole time, and by the end he gets his wish (he believes he is Bruce after sucking his brain waves) - and everything that comes with it, i.e. Batman. Thus he completely loses any sanity and ends up in a shadowy cell in a straight jacket. That's as dark as anything has been in the Batman movies.

I totally agree with you, 100%!

[Anita18]

I thought it was decently fun. It was the first Batman movie I enjoyed - both of Burton's movies scared me to death as a kid. It was like an easy appetizer to Batman fandom.

But yeah, it doesn't hold a candle to BB or even the Burton movies now that I'm older and I don't get scared of them. (As much...)

[The Chairman]

BF shows potential in a lot of scenes, and the basic plot elements and themes dealt within the film are really great, but the way they're executed is extremely poor. If they kept the themes and plot of the film the same but darkened the overall tone of it, it would've been awesome.

[Thot]

Batman Forever was great for the most part, very much a "comic book" movie. It had some over the top campiness that hurt it a bit, but overall very enjoyable. I believe there is room for the gritty, dark world of Begins and the more colorful, lighter world of Forever. When Nolan is finished, I wouldn't mind seeing another installment along the same lines, sans the camp and nipples of course!

[DCW]

I actually love Batman Forever. IMO, I can't stress that enough, I like it much more than Batman Returns. Sure I appreciate some parts in Returns but overall I just enjoy Forever much more. Returns is too dark and strange for me. The only thing that I really hate in Forever is the scene when Dick Grayson is doing the laundry with Alfred. That move where he drys his socks with his toes or whatever always drives me nuts. Other things do bother me a little: neon, nipples on the suits, and "I'll Get Drive Through". but not enough to detour me from enjoying the film. I love this movie and enjoy it everytime I watch it.

Oh, and Elliot Goldenthal is no Danny Elfman when it comes to Batman, but I love the score for this movie as well.

[Kevin Roegele]

I love Forever. I've seen it more times than any other movie (not that it's my it's not my favourite).

[Eastwood]

Batman forever was a good film it was still kind of dark it was defintley better than batman and robin and val kilmer was a pertty good batman i liked it

[cryptic name]

Jeph loeb made the riddler a serious villain?

Someone never watched the 60's Tv show...

none of the villains were serious in the 60's TV show :huh:

[Damiean Dark]

I still think if you take BF and B&R as a big budget version of the 60s camp batman it goes down a whole lot better and they are quite enjoyable.

[Vile]

Or you can take them for what they are and simply accept that fact that they are horrible movies!

=)

[Kevin Roegele]

none of the villains were serious in the 60's TV show :huh:

Frank Gorshin's Riddler was serious enough to be in a serious movie, if that makes sense. He's on the same level as Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin.

[Kal-El 8]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Batmanforeverdvd.jpg
Unlike Looney Clooney, Kilmer looked and was overall a much better BATMAN

[Damiean Dark]

That suit looks better then the Batman Begins suit and much more flexible.

[Agentsands77]

There was a good film inside BATMAN FOREVER (the basic concepts are pretty decent), but it's buried beneath a lot of crud. Not the least of which is the absolutely dreadful visual style.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

The beginning action sequence with the bank vault is fantastic, though not something I'd attribute Two-Face with committing (The only Two-Face I'm familiar with is the TLH and Dark Victory incarnations though).

The Red Book subplot held a ton of potential and could have been fleshed out more.

Even though I find it subpar story-wise to Burton's flicks, I still enjoy watching it here and there. B&R is a different story though.

[GREEN =w= DAY]

only good thing about BF is Val Kilmer. i honestly believe that he was a much better Batman/Bruce than Keaton (don't get me wrong, i LOVE Keaton). Kilmer is my second fav Batman right after Bale.

[Kevin Roegele]

Even though I find it subpar story-wise to Burton's flicks, I still enjoy watching it here and there. B&R is a different story though.

I have to disagree, story-wise Forever is superior to Burton's movies. THink about it; what is the story of Batman? Or Batman Returns? Not very much at all. Both simply introduce their characters into the arean of Gotham and then let them interact until the climax. I love both films, but storyline has never been Burton's strong point (as Daniel Waters, who wrote Returns says, Burton was not interested in anything to do with the plot).

Forever has a fantastic plot. Batman confronts his duality. He finds out exactly why he has two personalities, and finally makes a distinction between them. Everything in the movie ties into this. You have Dick Grayson, who Bruce must decide whether to allow to follow his path. You have Chase Meridian (whose name means 'persue a dividing line'), who helps Bruce unlock the secrets of his identity. You have Two-Face, which is self-explanatory.
And finally the Riddler....and I love this part of the movie....finally achieves his goal of becoming his idol, Bruce Wayne, at the end - and everything that comes with it. Thus he ends up in Arkham Asylum.

All this in a screenplay which doesn't waste a single scene and expertly juggles five characters, and leads to a perfect, logical and symbollic climax.

Look beyond the neon lights and the silly antics of Jones and Carrey and Forever is a great story. Better yet, read the novelisation.

[Bat Attack]

I love the shot in Forever when the Batmobile is roaring down the street when Batman is going to meet Chase on the GCPD rooftop. That seemed like it was right out of the comic. :up:

[Two-Face]

It's shame that Commish Gordon was acting stupid "what's going on? I saw the signal" Batman replies "false alarm" Chase: "Are you sure?" Yep that's out from the comics!

[Bat Attack]

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was referring to the dialouge. I meant the cinematography was comic-like. Sorry.

[Mr. Socko]

Overall, I liked Forever.

[Redwoods Wolf]

I thought Forever was good when I was younger. Then I re-watched it recently and was really disappointed. (The change of theme music was a big minus factor) Kilmer tries, but he never pulls off a violent darkness. The Batmobile looked awful...and Robin was completely unnecessary.
I like the first sequence with Batman trying to capture Two-Face. But that's about it.

[Bat Attack]

Even though it might not have fit, I think if they'd used the elfman score the movie would have been a bit better. It made the movie look better in the trailer atleast.

[Redwoods Wolf]

Batman Forever is only superficially colourful. The themes and characters are all dark, they're a bunch of tortured obsessives. I almost feel Schumacher is trying to disguise the darkness of the screenplay with lights on the surface, knowing most people will only take notice of that.

Look at the ending - Nygma wanted to be Bruce Wayne the whole time, and by the end he gets his wish (he believes he is Bruce after sucking his brain waves) - and everything that comes with it, i.e. Batman. Thus he completely loses any sanity and ends up in a shadowy cell in a straight jacket. That's as dark as anything has been in the Batman movies.

These are some points I hadn't considered. VERY good points, too...
I like being made to think. :up:

[Redwoods Wolf]

Even though it might not have fit, I think if they'd used the elfman score the movie would have been a bit better. It made the movie look better in the trailer atleast.
I think it would have, at least the more "actiony" part of the score, especially when Batman's driving. It's a perfect compliment, IMO.

[Mr. Socko]

I guess I'm the only one that liked Schumacher's Batman march.

[Nepenthes]

It's not an decent movie at all. From both a fan and a non-fan perspective...it's complete rubbish.

[Bat Attack]

I didn't care for the Batman Forever or Batman & Robin score at all. The "Bwaaaaaa bwa bwa bwaaaa bwa bwa bwa!" just sounds annoying to me. It almost sounds sarcastic.

[Cyrusbales]

whilst the film does have some good moments and potential, it's generally poor, especially in comparison to burton's work. I have seen this film a lot due to it being the only video that worked when I was ill a few times, (and her alibi) but would rather sit down and watch batman or batman return :)

[I Am The Knight]

I like it, it's one of those films I saw a lot as a kid.

[Travis K]

it sucked

[Nepenthes]

anal fluid

[Rockbottom]

I actually like Forever, i never noticed the nipples untill someone pointed it out, or the drive threw line (which is strange considering when i was growing up i used to watch BF once or twice everyday without fail almost for like 3 years). I know it has some real big flaws but i still thinks its entertaining and maybe it isnt 100% faithful, but the way i see it, you dont have to be faithful to make a great movie (im not saying BF is great here because it isnt).

Overall I loved it as a kid, and like it now.

[El Payaso]

I liked it back in 1995 in a 'it's ok' kind of way. Now I watch it and it's not that good but I don't hate it. I still can enjoy it.

[batmaluco]

BF was a descent movie.
I mean, it's still enjoyable, but in comparison with Burton's films it is a huge step down, imo.