Even if both Goku and Superman had no powers....Goku would still win...

[Goldenage Batman]

Why?....He knows Martial Arts.....

[mystic gohan]

Why?....He knows Martial Arts.....
i gues it is just as simple as that but i was wandering the way goku can loose his energy does superman loose his and do you realy think he would have the strenth to win not depending on energy?

[Goldenage Batman]

If they both had totally nothing no powers(No Energy also)...just a plan fight...Goku would win...

[mystic gohan]

If they both had totally nothing no powers(No Energy also)...just a plan fight...Goku would win...
ah i see i remember one time he didnt have his powers he seemed weaker than a normal person so i guess i would deffinatly have to go with goku

[mystic gohan]

SS2 can u send me the test please willie told me about it and i wanted to put my knowledge to the test can you send me it?

[Morg]

Why?....He knows Martial Arts.....


Nope, Superman can use his battlesuit :p

[Goldenage Batman]

....Damn...forgot about that...

[WILLIE1]

Doesn't matter cos supes is a wax doll compared to goku!!!

Supes is wick!

[mystic gohan]

SS2 thanks for the test ive just sent it back

[mystic gohan]

Doesn't matter cos supes is a wax doll compared to goku!!!

Supes is wick!
"i second that motion passed goku has officialy been declared stronger than superman in everway and my word is final no arguments":)

[Rowen]

Nope, Superman can use his battlesuit :p

Since when did superman have a battlesuit, all i kow is the guy whears spandex

[WILLIE1]

ROWEN!!!... How are ya buddy?...

I can hear someone singin YMCA!...LOL!!!!... Only kidding guys!

[Rowen]

I'm fine willie how are you

[WILLIE1]

Pretty good buddy, I've been trying real hard not to laugh at the Spandex thing as it reminds mo of some of the stupid colors that athletes wear!!!

I hope that you had a good weekend, Yes?

[Edaar the Mage]

to answer a question asked, yes Superman does lose power like Goku does. What happens is this: As we all know Superman is a storehouse for solar energy. Similar to how Goku expends Kia energy Superman uses up his stored battery of Solar Energy over time. When he gets low his invulernablity goes away, his strength fades, speed decreases, etc. This is what happened in Doomsday, Doomsday more or less outlasted him to the point where he had used up so much solar energy that he was vulernable again. So pretty much They both are capable of losing their powers for a short time if they expend enough energy. Superman has to have some time under the yellow sun to regani his lost strength whereas Goku needs.. we... food and lots of it! I still can't get over the Otherworld Tourny with Goku being dragged by a side in his teeth to the fight by King Kia LOL!

Edaar the Mage

[Morg]

Since when did superman have a battlesuit, all i kow is the guy whears spandex

He has a huge kryptonian battlesuit that he has in his Fortress of Solitude, he used it a few times

[Goldenage Batman]

I must say Morg....I'm suprised you posted here....

[WILLIE1]

Me too!... How you been buddy?

[Lobo]

if they had no powers except for there fighting skill Goku would beat the ***** out of Superman

[WILLIE1]

YEAH... GO ON LOBO!!!.... That's the true facts and it's the facts that we wanna hear!!!

How are ya buddy?

[Lobo]

Goku is the ultimaye martial artist. Superman just throws punches. Precirisis Supes would be a problem for Goku and Superman Prime is so powerful he makes the pc supes look weak.

[WILLIE1]

Hmm, interesting observation!...

[Lobo]

I'll have a link to Superman Prime's abilities soon. Without powers Batman would truly kick Superman's ass

[WILLIE1]

It's a matter of how the characters 'Powers' are precieved to be, but in terms of pure fighting ability, then Goku would win no problems what so ever!

[Edaar the Mage]

I apparently have been informed that Superman knows some matrial arts, I'm going to pick up the trade this weekend and check it out myself, but ifits true that cchanges my position on non-powered fight from Goku to equal, I'lll let ya know if he could actual hold his own more then we all think once I read the comic.

Edaar The Mage

[Morg]

I must say Morg....I'm suprised you posted here....


Blame the title thread :D and I saw this thread when I hit the new posts :)
had to add my two cents that Supers can still win the fight :D

[Super Kal]

I highly doubt that

[WILLIE1]

I agree it Kakarot on this cos Supes is completely wick!

[Zues4Life]

We have seen countless times that without his powers he can't fight if his life depended on it(literally).Goku would win but if Superman had all of his powers he'd beat Goku for sure.

[mystic gohan]

We have seen countless times that without his powers he can't fight if his life depended on it(literally).Goku would win but if Superman had all of his powers he'd beat Goku for sure.
but in that case wudnt they just be the same unless one trained harder than the other in that case i think goku would still will because he has well more experience

[Odin's Lapdog]

Goku is the ultimaye martial artist. Superman just throws punches. Precirisis Supes would be a problem for Goku and Superman Prime is so powerful he makes the pc supes look weak.
goku isn't the ultimate martial artist...

i'm pretty sure evil ryu could show him a few things if they fought at an equal power level...

[mystic gohan]

but thats the thing if if if if theres no ifs or buts you fight with the abilitys you have not make excuses

[Guyverjay]

goku isn't the ultimate martial artist...

i'm pretty sure evil ryu could show him a few things if they fought at an equal power level...


Pffft no

Goku abilites are GAINED through Martial arts. He 's not some guy with super powers who just happens to know Kung Fu.

Its true Supes was taught how to fight by Mongul (if I recall), but that is never brought up at all nowdays. Supes still just throws punches as normal. Besides no training from Mongul could make him a better fighter than Goku:o

[WILLIE1]

OH YEAH!.... Go on GuyverJay!!!... I second that all thee way to Supreme Kai's PLanet!^_^

[super saiyan x]

Blame the title thread :D and I saw this thread when I hit the new posts :)
had to add my two cents that Supers can still win the fight :D

Supes won't even lay hands on goku because he's so quick. Since Goku has the ability to sense just about anything faster than the speed of light, not to mention his serious training with the kinds of situations that he has been in, supes is just another whimp given great powers....Goku's powers are more useful in battle.

[WILLIE1]

I think that Supes may land quite a few hits, but Goku would've landed a few hundred by that time!^_^

[Odin's Lapdog]

Pffft no

Goku abilites are GAINED through Martial arts. He 's not some guy with super powers who just happens to know Kung Fu.

Its true Supes was taught how to fight by Mongul (if I recall), but that is never brought up at all nowdays. Supes still just throws punches as normal. Besides no training from Mongul could make him a better fighter than Goku:o
Goku's up and down...

I would consider a perfect martial artist to have reached a state of enlightenment and be quite peaceful in nature, using very little effort to pull of complex maneouvres. Goku still loves to fight and has yet to reach this stage.

As purely a master of his art, i would put lee mu bai from crouching tiger above goku as a martial artist as well as a few others. (based on the effortless fighting and his peaceful nature)

goku's tough, but not a perfect martial artist. he still gets taken out by direct blows and so forth. But at his best (which i consider to be his bout with cell), he does push the boat out, but then you have to consider putting cell up there as well.

i know you probably won't agree with me on this, but i'm willing to stand my ground on this one.

[Super Kal]

oh god, not this again...

[WILLIE1]

Yeah, I agree^_^


GUYS, TAKE THIS ARGUEMENT TH HELL OUTTA HERE!!!!

[dbzmom]

Well he was being civil so I don't think it was a problem :) But honestly I don't take imaginary battles very seriously so I don't really care :)

[WILLIE1]

I know what you mean, but after yesterday's caper, I couldn't be bothered with any more fighting or arguements^_^

[dbzmom]

yes but I don't think Odin would get like that I haven't seen him behave that way. I haven't gone and read all his posts though but he seems rational to me.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Yeah, I agree^_^


GUYS, TAKE THIS ARGUEMENT TH HELL OUTTA HERE!!!!
who is arguing?

i talk to guyver all the time about stuff like this, it never gets personal (except for the jason/tommy debate :mad: :p )


we're both mature enough to act immaturely in a mature manner if it gets to that stage, no harm will be done..

:)

[Odin's Lapdog]

yes but I don't think Odin would get like that I haven't seen him behave that way. I haven't gone and read all his posts though but he seems rational to me.
i've read all my posts, that was a boring day:(

[WILLIE1]

Sorry Odin, I guess that I'm just being catious from those 2 idiots that were here yesterday^_^

[dbzmom]

who is arguing?

i talk to guyver all the time about stuff like this, it never gets personal (except for the jason/tommy debate :mad: :p )


we're both mature enough to act immaturely in a mature manner if it gets to that stage, no harm will be done..

:) I think he is just worn out from the people yesterday. I think it got a little out of hand and there was name calling etc etc. It isn't worth it if it get to that point. I did say you were being civil I think its more that it might spark another arguement like yesterday. Not that you were arguing but that it might start up again :). I think he just wants a little cool off period :)

[Odin's Lapdog]

don't be sorry, no offence was taken..

[dbzmom]

Sorry Odin, I guess that I'm just being catious from those 2 idiots that were here yesterday^_^see damn it I type too slow!!!!

[Odin's Lapdog]

+++++OFFICIAL THREAD COOLING OFF PERIOD++++++

[WILLIE1]

Don't worry DBZMOM, you'll get better as I was a slow typer too and I started to type faster, but I'm not typing at the speed of light or anything^_^

[dbzmom]

In my defense I would type faster if I wasn't folding the laundry :)

[WILLIE1]

Ahh yes, I know what you mean now^_^

[Jplaya2023]

without his powers superman is a human whose punching no longer have stopping power

Goku without his powers still knows martial arts and would own superman

[saiyan jedi]

omg!!!!!

[hulkamania85]

Doesn't matter cos supes is a wax doll compared to goku!!!

Supes is wick!

Huh?

Anyway Supes wins. Superman is no slouch. He probably knows several good moves.

[Jplaya2023]

Huh?

Anyway Supes wins. Superman is no slouch. He probably knows several good moves.


lol @ this

[Goldenage Batman]

...wow...This is old....thanks for whoever found this....takes me back to my "past life".....

[hulkamania85]

lol @ this

Well he probably does. Superman could probably read up on kung fu or something via Super reading or something.

Batman could take out Goku too, as we know he knows martial arts already.

And if he's struggling he could always start a "USA!,USA!" chant to get himself pumped up again.

[super saiyan x]

lol. Batman will not beat goku if they went head to head without their powers. Goku was training since he was three years old to the very end of gt. Goku's martial art skills largely overcomes that of the bats even though i know that the bats has more fighting skill than superman.


Goku has trained with every known figure in the dbz universe and later surpasses them all.

[Goldenage Batman]

Well he probably does. Superman could probably read up on kung fu or something via Super reading or something.

Batman could take out Goku too, as we know he knows martial arts already.

And if he's struggling he could always start a "USA!,USA!" chant to get himself pumped up again.


For the last time...Goku is not from Japan...he is from planet Vegeta...he is a Sayian....

[hulkamania85]

For the last time...Goku is not from Japan...he is from planet Vegeta...he is a Sayian....

Well Superman wasn't born in the US either, but he grew up there. Same thing with Goku and Japan.

[Guyverjay]

Wrong

Japan doesn't exist on Dragonball earth, all the locations are made up:)

[Corinthian™]

Wrong

Japan doesn't exist on Dragonball earth, all the locations are made up:)
He's from the country of the East... Bulma's from the country of the west... they say so in Dragon ball..

[Guyverjay]

So?

East automatically mean Japan does it?

They've also got a world president who happens to be a dog, your point would be what?

Dragonball earth is completly fictional


Hell heres a picture of it
http://img497.imageshack.us/img497/6594/worldmap0tj.jpg

[super saiyan x]

Well Superman wasn't born in the US either, but he grew up there. Same thing with Goku and Japan.

For the last time goku was based on a chinese myth so he's not japanese. Also, i herd that a canadian brought up the idea of superman__is this true?

[hulkamania85]

For the last time goku was based on a chinese myth so he's not japanese. Also, i herd that a canadian brought up the idea of superman__is this true?

Based on a chinese myth, but this Goku is from a Japanese cartoon.

A canadian could have come up with Supes, but the character fights for truth, justice, and the American way.

[Guyverjay]

Based on a chinese myth, but this Goku is from a Japanese cartoon.

A canadian could have come up with Supes, but the character fights for truth, justice, and the American way.


So what?

George Lucas is American, I suppose Jabba the Hut comes from Texas?

Goku nationality isn't Japanese end of story

[hulkamania85]

So what?

George Lucas is American, I suppose Jabba the Hut comes from Texas?

Goku nationality isn't Japanese end of story

Wow that was completely opposite of the point I was making.

What I said would mean that Jabba doesn't come from Texas because the creator is from a certain country. Superman isn't a canuck because the writer is from Canada.

Goku is probably not from Japan if you want to be anal about the fantasy country thing.

However IMO Superman is the better character.

[Guyverjay]

Wow that was completely opposite of the point I was making.

What I said would mean that Jabba doesn't come from Texas because the creator is from a certain country. Superman isn't a canuck because the writer is from Canada.

Goku is probably not from Japan if you want to be anal about the fantasy country thing.

However IMO Superman is the better character.

What point? You have no point. You just spew utter rubbish everytime you post. There is no PROBABLY, Goku isn't Japanese. Its nothing to do with being anal. It's you being completely and utterly ignorant;)

[super saiyan x]

Wow that was completely opposite of the point I was making.

What I said would mean that Jabba doesn't come from Texas because the creator is from a certain country. Superman isn't a canuck because the writer is from Canada.

Goku is probably not from Japan if you want to be anal about the fantasy country thing.

However IMO Superman is the better character.


If Goku is from japan, then superman is from Canada...that's what you are applying right? Either way you have no point ciao.


Being Anal about things lol.


It's pretty camp to fly around in primary coloured stockings, underpants and a cape but could it be true that Superman's actually gay. Some people seem to think so.

http://www.craveonline.com/filmtv/stories.php?sid=1081

quote:
“I'm told, that Bryan Singer has a particular theme in mind regarding this film. As an openly gay activist, he's wanting to give the world a new young gay role model, and is looking to employ someone who is either openly gay or closeted gay, who'll come out during publicity for the movie. Superman itself can also be seen as an allegory for closeted homosexuality … and Singer wants to add that meta-textual element to the movie.”


Bryan Singer did a great job of the X-Men movies but making Superman gay's a pretty huge change of character. Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor makes sense because although he's gay he's been chosen because he's a fine actor. To choose actors directly because of their sexuality seems a bit weird to me.

Hugh Laurie's not a bad actor but I still see him as more of a comedian. I still think of him as Prince Regent in Blackadder so Perry White might be a stretch. I'm interested to see if this converts as well from comics to big screen as the X-Men did.

Below is an artist's impression of how the New Superman could look.

[Jplaya2023]

still a good thread

[Hades]

You people are ****ed.

[Warhammer]

...Yet another thread bumped for no reason. :whatever:

[Jplaya2023]

...Yet another thread bumped for no reason. :whatever:

this forum is dead im trying to spark traffic

[Warhammer]

I gotta give you props for that. :up: :up:

Goku wins, btw.

[Ultra-Herald9]

Man this is just sad. I don't even understand why someone would need to make this thread.....I mean Its quite obvious who would win.















SUPERMAN!:supes:

Just kidding lol. Goku takes this one easily! That is unless good ol' Kal decides to whip out the old kryptonian tech then Goku's done! But in a staraight fight with no powers Goku takes it with hardly any trouble!

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

dragonfly could beat goku. check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL6RTVeU-Vw

[SouLeSS]

Superman would win, and heres why.

If Goku lost all his powers, he would lose all his martial arts training. All (most) of his powers come from his martial arts, unlike Superman.

So if you really wanted to strip the characters bare, you'de have to say that Goku has little to no martial arts knowledge, as opposed to Supermans training on it.

Superman would win, no question about it.

Although most of you will come in here and go 'lololol no man ur dumb lol goku goku goku!!!' because you're ****ing idiots, but I can't help that.

[saiyan jedi]

Superman would win, and heres why.

If Goku lost all his powers, he would lose all his martial arts training. All (most) of his powers come from his martial arts, unlike Superman.

So if you really wanted to strip the characters bare, you'de have to say that Goku has little to no martial arts knowledge, as opposed to Supermans training on it.

Superman would win, no question about it.

Although most of you will come in here and go 'lololol no man ur dumb lol goku goku goku!!!' because you're ****ing idiots, but I can't help that.

GOKU

gokus powers come from his chi not
his martial arts.

[Jplaya2023]

Superman would win, and heres why.

If Goku lost all his powers, he would lose all his martial arts training. All (most) of his powers come from his martial arts, unlike Superman.

So if you really wanted to strip the characters bare, you'de have to say that Goku has little to no martial arts knowledge, as opposed to Supermans training on it.

Superman would win, no question about it.

Although most of you will come in here and go 'lololol no man ur dumb lol goku goku goku!!!' because you're ****ing idiots, but I can't help that.


goku in DB had no powers but was still very well trained in martial arts. He learned martial arts ever since he was young trained by grandpa gohan. So your assertion is incorrect.

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Without powers do you mean like Gohan was on Namek, powerlevel zero.
Couldent even stand up.

[Jplaya2023]

Without powers do you mean like Gohan was on Namek, powerlevel zero.
Couldent even stand up.


??????????????????????????????????

[Sloth7d]

Wow. This is the dumbest thread evaaaa!!!!!

[SSJ4_Mikael]

??????????????????????????????????
After Recoom beat the **** out of him.
Than Juizu comfirmes that he have powerlevel zero.

[Jplaya2023]

After Recoom beat the **** out of him.
Than Juizu comfirmes that he have powerlevel zero.

recoome broke his neck/spins of course he couldnt stand

[SouLeSS]

GOKU

gokus powers come from his chi not
his martial arts.

And his chi is focused through his Martial Arts, which therfor is something that gives him his powers, which would be erased from him, making him just an ordinary guy.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

If Goku lost all his powers, he would lose all his martial arts training. All (most) of his powers come from his martial arts, unlike Superman.

:huh: Umm...hate to rain on your parade, but if Goku had no powers (which in this case would mean the inability to focus his chi) it doesn't mean he would lose. Sure, he wouldn't be able to channel his chi into techniques. But knowing how to defend yourself isn't a superpower. Even if you stripped him of all chi-related techniques he still moves so fast he leaves afterimages behind him. Without their superpowers Kal-El is a normal man and Goku is a skilled fighter.

So if you really wanted to strip the characters bare, you'de have to say that Goku has little to no martial arts knowledge, as opposed to Supermans training on it.

*insert yet another Classic Confused smiley here*

After Recoom beat the **** out of him.
Than Juizu comfirmes that he have powerlevel zero.

Not exactly. Jheese just mentions that his battle power is insignificant once his neck is broken by Reacoom's kick. To have no battle power is to have no chi, and to have no chi means you're not alive. Chi is necessary for basic bodily function, so a little bit has to be in you for your body to live. Which, to tie this into the topic, is also a reason why if both were depowered Goku would come off the better- even if he couldn't manipulate his own chi his battle power would stay the same. You can't just strip a person completely of chi or they'd be dead.

EDIT: To go further, Kaiô states that even inanimate objects contain chi. This fight can't happen unless Goku had chi. With latent chi in his body, even without being able to use it, his attacks would still be as powerful as before. So the logic of this thread is somewhat confusing...

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

And his chi is focused through his Martial Arts, which therfor is something that gives him his powers, which would be erased from him, making him just an ordinary guy.

but mr. satan knows martial arts and so does videl. mr. satan never used chi and videl was tought it.(how to manipulate it)

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

Just because you can't use chi doesn't mean you don't have it, though. Even though Mr. Satan's erroneously weak he (like every other human under the principle of chi) needs some in his body to exist. If you just wanted a chi-less Son Goku you'd have to make a chi-less Superman, and without chi you are considered dead. So this fight would be pointless.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Just because you can't use chi doesn't mean you don't have it, though. Even though Mr. Satan's erroneously weak he (like every other human under the principle of chi) needs some in his body to exist. If you just wanted a chi-less Son Goku you'd have to make a chi-less Superman, and without chi you are considered dead. So this fight would be pointless.

i know. at the end of my post i put ( manipulate it). thats what goku does

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

i know. at the end of my post i put ( manipulate it). thats what goku does

I posted that before seeing your edit, to clarify. :cwink:

[Endless Mike]

So does Superman.....

Besides, Superman often is in a situation where he loses his powers. Goku never has. So while Goku will be all confused as to why his kamehameha isn't working, Superman will put him in a half nelson.

If anyone here has read "Return of Superman" you will see how he can handle himself without powers.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/notaboyscout.jpg

[Sloth7d]

So does Superman.....

Besides, Superman often is in a situation where he loses his powers. Goku never has. So while Goku will be all confused as to why his kamehameha isn't working, Superman will put him in a half nelson.
Goku knows martial arts. He'd escape easily and then knock him out.

[Warhammer]

Goku beats down Superman without powers.
This comes down to who can fight better/more efficiently and Goku will win. He's a master of martial arts, while Supes is not.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Ever seen the movie fearless? Perfect example of goku vs superman. Check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk6G31cN_pM

[Sloth7d]

Ever seen the movie fearless? Perfect example of goku vs superman. Check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk6G31cN_pM
Is that with powers or without?

[Endless Mike]

Goku knows martial arts. He'd escape easily and then knock him out.

Except no.

Superman trained for 1000 years in Valhalla, he was trained in martial arts by Mongul's son, and he has lots of experience fighting without his powers, whereas Goku does not.

[Gotenks]

So does Superman.....

Besides, Superman often is in a situation where he loses his powers. Goku never has. So while Goku will be all confused as to why his kamehameha isn't working, Superman will put him in a half nelson.

If anyone here has read "Return of Superman" you will see how he can handle himself without powers.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/notaboyscout.jpg

Goku is a fighting genius.
Im pretty sure he can adapt to any situation.

[Endless Mike]

Goku is a fighting genius.
Im pretty sure he can adapt to any situation.

If he was suddenly without powers he would lose, fast, as he would have no idea what was going on in the first few crucial moments that mattered.

He's never even demonstrated the ability to fight effectively, or at all, without powers, while Superman has.

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

If he was suddenly without powers he would lose, fast, as he would have no idea what was going on in the first few crucial moments that mattered.

He's never even demonstrated the ability to fight effectively, or at all, without powers, while Superman has.

what? i bet mr. satan could take superman with no power. goku was trained by master roshi who was a champion and hardly had that much power when he was younger

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

If he was suddenly without powers he would lose, fast, as he would have no idea what was going on in the first few crucial moments that mattered.

He's never even demonstrated the ability to fight effectively, or at all, without powers, while Superman has.

If by 'powers' you mean 'the manipulation of chi', he would still win. If you'd read by post before you'd know that there is no way for Goku or anything else to be living without chi inside them. Just because he doesn't have the ability to use chi doesn't mean it wouldn't still be inside him. And with chi inside him Supes' attacks would be pretty useless as Goku's strength would not have really diminished. Plus, as stated by so many before me, before he even had the ability to use his own chi Goku was easily capable of destroying boulders in a single grasp. Look at the very first Dragon Ball tankobon if you want further info on it.

what? i bet mr. satan could take superman with no power. goku was trained by master roshi who was a champion and hardly had that much power when he was younger

Let's not go to that extreme. Without any powers Superman can handle himself okay, whereas Mr. Satan considers a 'feat of great strength' to be breaking through a few tiles one-handed.

[C. Lee]

Although most of you will come in here and go 'lololol no man ur dumb lol goku goku goku!!!' because you're ****ing idiots, but I can't help that.
But you can help your attitude and language. If someone has an opinion that is different than yours, it doesn't make them smarter or dumber....it makes them someone with an opinion that is different than yours.

You can discuss and debate and even argue about things....but you don't have to get rude and call people names. Don't continue these actions.

[Sloth7d]

If he was suddenly without powers he would lose, fast, as he would have no idea what was going on in the first few crucial moments that mattered.

He's never even demonstrated the ability to fight effectively, or at all, without powers, while Superman has.
Yep, I couldn't tell at first, but now I'm sure of it. You're a DBZ hater.

[Jplaya2023]

So does Superman.....

Besides, Superman often is in a situation where he loses his powers. Goku never has. So while Goku will be all confused as to why his kamehameha isn't working, Superman will put him in a half nelson.

If anyone here has read "Return of Superman" you will see how he can handle himself without powers.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/notaboyscout.jpg



LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO superman gotta gun AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Why doesnt he use that 10000 years of training u raved about. He gotta gat AHAHAHAAH

[Endless Mike]

Yep, I couldn't tell at first, but now I'm sure of it. You're a DBZ hater.

Just because I don't think DBZ is the most powerful thing ever doesn't mean I hate it.:whatever:

Oh, and here's a nice link for you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive)

[Endless Mike]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO superman gotta gun AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Why doesnt he use that 10000 years of training u raved about. He gotta gat AHAHAHAAH

I don't know, maybe because at that point, he hadn't undergone the training yet?:whatever:

[SouLeSS]

:huh: Umm...hate to rain on your parade, but if Goku had no powers (which in this case would mean the inability to focus his chi) it doesn't mean he would lose. Sure, he wouldn't be able to channel his chi into techniques. But knowing how to defend yourself isn't a superpower. Even if you stripped him of all chi-related techniques he still moves so fast he leaves afterimages behind him. Without their superpowers Kal-El is a normal man and Goku is a skilled fighter.



No, he can't. If you're applying realworld physics, then thats impossible unless you have some kind of power.

Why can Goku destroy boulders with a punch? Because he focuses his chi into his strength.
Why can Goku leave afterimages behind? Because he focuses his chi into his speed.

Goku without his powers, which would have to include his chi focusing would be nothing more than a medium to high classed martial arts expert. Superman would be above high. Why? Because he trained for over 1000 years 'earth time'.

You can't deny facts, though because you're a fanboy, you will. It's actually disgusting.

[Sloth7d]

Just because I don't think DBZ is the most powerful thing ever doesn't mean I hate it.:whatever:

Oh, and here's a nice link for you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive)
Nope because you think an average joe(that bering superman) can defeat a martial arts master (that being Goku) in a fight concludes that. And its not like I haven't been observing you. You bash Goku every chance you get. Your sig is proof. Not to mention in that one thread where you swore up and down Popeye the sailorman could defeat Goku. I've seen people like you on several websites. And I have concluded that debating with people like you is pointless.:o

[Super Kal]

now hold on RIGHT there... Superman is NO average Joe. Pre-Crisis Superman has a really good chance on giving a good fight with Goku, and he's certainly no Average Joe.

[Sloth7d]

He doesn't have his powers in this scenario. Neither does Goku, though.

[Gotenks]

Yeah he is definatly a hater.
As soon as he got here he was bashing goku.

[Jplaya2023]

Nope because you think an average joe(that bering superman) can defeat a martial arts master (that being Goku) in a fight concludes that. And its not like I haven't been observing you. You bash Goku every chance you get. Your sig is proof. Not to mention in that one thread where you swore up and down Popeye the sailorman could defeat Goku. I've seen people like you on several websites. And I have concluded that debating with people like you is pointless.:o


you should see dude on other sites, his DBZ hate is quite consistent and remarkable

[ssleader]

i dont think goku may have avantage in the fighting skill in superman....if there's no power during the fight i pretty sure they would be even..(since i readed some comic so i sure that superman's skill too.)

superman's skill much better than vegeta and gohan, and almost as good as piccolo and trunks(if there's no power or ki in comparison)!!

goku can defeat any villiam becuz he just lucky...he always beat them by power but not skill.....so i'm sure superman can easily take even match with goku!!

[Sloth7d]

i dont think goku may have avantage in the fighting skill in superman....if there's no power during the fight i pretty sure they would be even..(since i readed some comic so i sure that superman's skill too.)

superman's skill much better than vegeta and gohan, and almost as good as piccolo and trunks(if there's no power or ki in comparison)!!

goku can defeat any villiam becuz he just lucky...he always beat them by power but not skill.....so i'm sure superman can easily take even match with goku!!
Completely false. Superman has no martial arts training because he never took it. Thats because he was afraid he'd be too strong with any martial arts in his background.
In actuallity Supermans martial arts skill isn't even up there with Yajirobe.

[C. Lee]

I love the way you guys argue about this....if only as much time and effort was made on finding a cure for cancer.

Who can beat up who while they both have their powers is up to your personal preference....they are not both from the same comic/movie/TV/anime frame of reference....so whichever one you want to be stronger will be stronger in your mind.

As to who would win if they both had their superpowers removed....with me not being able to care less about Dragonball and being a Superman fan....I'd have to say Goku would win. Superman without his super powers is fairly strong agile guy....Goku without his superpowers is still a trained martial artist....I always give the edge to the trained martial artist.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

No, he can't. If you're applying realworld physics, then thats impossible unless you have some kind of power.

Moving fast enough for light refraction to slow down isn't a superpower...it's that the normal human body can't handle that speed that makes it impossible. We turn into messy globs way before then. However, if you'd actually notice what I was saying before, since there's no way to strip him of chi the same principle would indirectly apply- since afterimages aren't a byproduct of the martial arts so much as light refraction no longer continuing with a moving object and Goku without the chi to do that would be dead if we were talking about a living Goku the point of 'realworld physics' would still be moot. It is the application of chi in unnatural ways that conflicts with physics and not the indirect application of what's already there. Strip both combatants of this to equalize them and there would be no point to the fight. You would have the "first Shinto human effect", two people barely breathing and slumped onto the ground with most of their body withered and/ or shutting down.

Why can Goku destroy boulders with a punch? Because he focuses his chi into his strength.
Why can Goku leave afterimages behind? Because he focuses his chi into his speed.

Goku without his powers, which would have to include his chi focusing would be nothing more than a medium to high classed martial arts expert. Superman would be above high. Why? Because he trained for over 1000 years 'earth time'.

You don't get it do you? Goku without chi means he's dead. Superman without chi means he's dead. Chi is needed for existence. In it's most basic form all it represents is the breath of life within us all. Without it this battle can't happen. If you're going to say any feat of strength done with the exertion of chi in the body can't be used as it's defined as a 'superpower' in your eyes and make a chi-less Goku you end up with Dead Superman vs. Dead Goku. If you would so kindly do your research into the principle you'd find that everything from breathing to excresion of waste from the body is connected to the healthy (or, at times, unhealthy) flow of chi through channels believed to be throughout the body. Hence the premise of acupuncture- restoration of the basic bodily functions. It has nothing to do with 'focus' when you move or grip something. Focusing chi to the point that you do something extraordinary that normally could never be done by the limitations of matter (and yes, at the height of human potential Son Goku's early feats are paltry) is when it can be properly designated as a 'superpower'. Thus, the Kamehameha could not be used- it's an visually outward extension of chi, something that has never been scientifically proven or recorded. But if you're so adamant of Goku having no chi whatsoever, here's a screenshot from the anime at a point where he had no chi (or what you've convoluted into a 'superpower'):

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/DeadGoku.jpg

You can't deny facts, though because you're a fanboy, you will. It's actually disgusting.

You know, just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I can't debate rationally. Just because I see things differently from you doesn't mean I have some ravenous agenda. I can see Superman winning in a fight with the Hulk and a Pre-Crisis Superman beating most all DBZ-related characters outside of Super Vegetto. It's just under the circumstances debated in this topic (both combatants stripped of what both sides consider to be 'superpowers') that I see a different outcome. If you've notice, I've yet to post 'goku wins cuz he's the strongest' or that you're ignorant for not agreeing.

I love the way you guys argue about this....if only as much time and effort was made on finding a cure for cancer.

I actually came into this topic with the naivete that this was a logical conversation on two characters and not a flame war. :(

[SouLeSS]

Moving fast enough for light refraction to slow down isn't a superpower...it's that the normal human body can't handle that speed that makes it impossible. We turn into messy globs way before then. However, if you'd actually notice what I was saying before, since there's no way to strip him of chi the same principle would indirectly apply- since afterimages aren't a byproduct of the martial arts so much as light refraction no longer continuing with a moving object and Goku without the chi to do that would be dead if we were talking about a living Goku the point of 'realworld physics' would still be moot. It is the application of chi in unnatural ways that conflicts with physics and not the indirect application of what's already there. Strip both combatants of this to equalize them and there would be no point to the fight. You would have the "first Shinto human effect", two people barely breathing and slumped onto the ground with most of their body withered and/ or shutting down.



You don't get it do you? Goku without chi means he's dead. Superman without chi means he's dead. Chi is needed for existence. In it's most basic form all it represents is the breath of life within us all. Without it this battle can't happen. If you're going to say any feat of strength done with the exertion of chi in the body can't be used as it's defined as a 'superpower' in your eyes and make a chi-less Goku you end up with Dead Superman vs. Dead Goku. If you would so kindly do your research into the principle you'd find that everything from breathing to excresion of waste from the body is connected to the healthy (or, at times, unhealthy) flow of chi through channels believed to be throughout the body. Hence the premise of acupuncture- restoration of the basic bodily functions. It has nothing to do with 'focus' when you move or grip something. Focusing chi to the point that you do something extraordinary that normally could never be done by the limitations of matter (and yes, at the height of human potential Son Goku's early feats are paltry) is when it can be properly designated as a 'superpower'. Thus, the Kamehameha could not be used- it's an visually outward extension of chi, something that has never been scientifically proven or recorded. But if you're so adamant of Goku having no chi whatsoever, here's a screenshot from the anime at a point where he had no chi (or what you've convoluted into a 'superpower'):

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/DeadGoku.jpg



You know, just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I can't debate rationally. Just because I see things differently from you doesn't mean I have some ravenous agenda. I can see Superman winning in a fight with the Hulk and a Pre-Crisis Superman beating most all DBZ-related characters outside of Super Vegetto. It's just under the circumstances debated in this topic (both combatants stripped of what both sides consider to be 'superpowers') that I see a different outcome. If you've notice, I've yet to post 'goku wins cuz he's the strongest' or that you're ignorant for not agreeing.



I actually came into this topic with the naivete that this was a logical conversation on two characters and not a flame war. :(

No you're missing the point. I said that if we stripped them down to their rawest form, Goku wouldn't CHANNEL his chi. Not that he wouldn't have it. But if you're gonna say "well that wouldn't happen, he can channel it anyway!" (which I'm fairly certain you did, as I didn't really read past the first few sentences.) then Superman would retain his "channeling" of our sun's solar powers, giving him his 'powers' back.

I mean, if Goku can utalize his chi to his best ability, then Superman can utalize the solar beams to help.

[SouLeSS]

Moving fast enough for light refraction to slow down isn't a superpower...it's that the normal human body can't handle that speed that makes it impossible. We turn into messy globs way before then. However, if you'd actually notice what I was saying before, since there's no way to strip him of chi the same principle would indirectly apply- since afterimages aren't a byproduct of the martial arts so much as light refraction no longer continuing with a moving object and Goku without the chi to do that would be dead if we were talking about a living Goku the point of 'realworld physics' would still be moot. It is the application of chi in unnatural ways that conflicts with physics and not the indirect application of what's already there. Strip both combatants of this to equalize them and there would be no point to the fight. You would have the "first Shinto human effect", two people barely breathing and slumped onto the ground with most of their body withered and/ or shutting down.



You don't get it do you? Goku without chi means he's dead. Superman without chi means he's dead. Chi is needed for existence. In it's most basic form all it represents is the breath of life within us all. Without it this battle can't happen. If you're going to say any feat of strength done with the exertion of chi in the body can't be used as it's defined as a 'superpower' in your eyes and make a chi-less Goku you end up with Dead Superman vs. Dead Goku. If you would so kindly do your research into the principle you'd find that everything from breathing to excresion of waste from the body is connected to the healthy (or, at times, unhealthy) flow of chi through channels believed to be throughout the body. Hence the premise of acupuncture- restoration of the basic bodily functions. It has nothing to do with 'focus' when you move or grip something. Focusing chi to the point that you do something extraordinary that normally could never be done by the limitations of matter (and yes, at the height of human potential Son Goku's early feats are paltry) is when it can be properly designated as a 'superpower'. Thus, the Kamehameha could not be used- it's an visually outward extension of chi, something that has never been scientifically proven or recorded. But if you're so adamant of Goku having no chi whatsoever, here's a screenshot from the anime at a point where he had no chi (or what you've convoluted into a 'superpower'):

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/DeadGoku.jpg



You know, just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I can't debate rationally. Just because I see things differently from you doesn't mean I have some ravenous agenda. I can see Superman winning in a fight with the Hulk and a Pre-Crisis Superman beating most all DBZ-related characters outside of Super Vegetto. It's just under the circumstances debated in this topic (both combatants stripped of what both sides consider to be 'superpowers') that I see a different outcome. If you've notice, I've yet to post 'goku wins cuz he's the strongest' or that you're ignorant for not agreeing.



I actually came into this topic with the naivete that this was a logical conversation on two characters and not a flame war. :(

No you're missing the point. I said that if we stripped them down to their rawest form, Goku wouldn't CHANNEL his chi. Not that he wouldn't have it. But if you're gonna say "well that wouldn't happen, he can channel it anyway!" (which I'm fairly certain you did, as I didn't really read past the first few sentences.) then Superman would retain his "channeling" of our sun's solar powers, giving him his 'powers' back.

I mean, if Goku can utalize his chi to his best ability, then Superman can utalize the solar beams to help.

[SouLeSS]

Moving fast enough for light refraction to slow down isn't a superpower...it's that the normal human body can't handle that speed that makes it impossible. We turn into messy globs way before then. However, if you'd actually notice what I was saying before, since there's no way to strip him of chi the same principle would indirectly apply- since afterimages aren't a byproduct of the martial arts so much as light refraction no longer continuing with a moving object and Goku without the chi to do that would be dead if we were talking about a living Goku the point of 'realworld physics' would still be moot. It is the application of chi in unnatural ways that conflicts with physics and not the indirect application of what's already there. Strip both combatants of this to equalize them and there would be no point to the fight. You would have the "first Shinto human effect", two people barely breathing and slumped onto the ground with most of their body withered and/ or shutting down.



You don't get it do you? Goku without chi means he's dead. Superman without chi means he's dead. Chi is needed for existence. In it's most basic form all it represents is the breath of life within us all. Without it this battle can't happen. If you're going to say any feat of strength done with the exertion of chi in the body can't be used as it's defined as a 'superpower' in your eyes and make a chi-less Goku you end up with Dead Superman vs. Dead Goku. If you would so kindly do your research into the principle you'd find that everything from breathing to excresion of waste from the body is connected to the healthy (or, at times, unhealthy) flow of chi through channels believed to be throughout the body. Hence the premise of acupuncture- restoration of the basic bodily functions. It has nothing to do with 'focus' when you move or grip something. Focusing chi to the point that you do something extraordinary that normally could never be done by the limitations of matter (and yes, at the height of human potential Son Goku's early feats are paltry) is when it can be properly designated as a 'superpower'. Thus, the Kamehameha could not be used- it's an visually outward extension of chi, something that has never been scientifically proven or recorded. But if you're so adamant of Goku having no chi whatsoever, here's a screenshot from the anime at a point where he had no chi (or what you've convoluted into a 'superpower'):

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/DeadGoku.jpg



You know, just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I can't debate rationally. Just because I see things differently from you doesn't mean I have some ravenous agenda. I can see Superman winning in a fight with the Hulk and a Pre-Crisis Superman beating most all DBZ-related characters outside of Super Vegetto. It's just under the circumstances debated in this topic (both combatants stripped of what both sides consider to be 'superpowers') that I see a different outcome. If you've notice, I've yet to post 'goku wins cuz he's the strongest' or that you're ignorant for not agreeing.



I actually came into this topic with the naivete that this was a logical conversation on two characters and not a flame war. :(

No you're missing the point. I said that if we stripped them down to their rawest form, Goku wouldn't CHANNEL his chi. Not that he wouldn't have it. But if you're gonna say "well that wouldn't happen, he can channel it anyway!" (which I'm fairly certain you did, as I didn't really read past the first few sentences.) then Superman would retain his "channeling" of our sun's solar powers, giving him his 'powers' back.

I mean, if Goku can utalize his chi to his best ability, then Superman can utalize the solar beams to help.

[SouLeSS]

Moving fast enough for light refraction to slow down isn't a superpower...it's that the normal human body can't handle that speed that makes it impossible. We turn into messy globs way before then. However, if you'd actually notice what I was saying before, since there's no way to strip him of chi the same principle would indirectly apply- since afterimages aren't a byproduct of the martial arts so much as light refraction no longer continuing with a moving object and Goku without the chi to do that would be dead if we were talking about a living Goku the point of 'realworld physics' would still be moot. It is the application of chi in unnatural ways that conflicts with physics and not the indirect application of what's already there. Strip both combatants of this to equalize them and there would be no point to the fight. You would have the "first Shinto human effect", two people barely breathing and slumped onto the ground with most of their body withered and/ or shutting down.



You don't get it do you? Goku without chi means he's dead. Superman without chi means he's dead. Chi is needed for existence. In it's most basic form all it represents is the breath of life within us all. Without it this battle can't happen. If you're going to say any feat of strength done with the exertion of chi in the body can't be used as it's defined as a 'superpower' in your eyes and make a chi-less Goku you end up with Dead Superman vs. Dead Goku. If you would so kindly do your research into the principle you'd find that everything from breathing to excresion of waste from the body is connected to the healthy (or, at times, unhealthy) flow of chi through channels believed to be throughout the body. Hence the premise of acupuncture- restoration of the basic bodily functions. It has nothing to do with 'focus' when you move or grip something. Focusing chi to the point that you do something extraordinary that normally could never be done by the limitations of matter (and yes, at the height of human potential Son Goku's early feats are paltry) is when it can be properly designated as a 'superpower'. Thus, the Kamehameha could not be used- it's an visually outward extension of chi, something that has never been scientifically proven or recorded. But if you're so adamant of Goku having no chi whatsoever, here's a screenshot from the anime at a point where he had no chi (or what you've convoluted into a 'superpower'):

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/DeadGoku.jpg



You know, just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I can't debate rationally. Just because I see things differently from you doesn't mean I have some ravenous agenda. I can see Superman winning in a fight with the Hulk and a Pre-Crisis Superman beating most all DBZ-related characters outside of Super Vegetto. It's just under the circumstances debated in this topic (both combatants stripped of what both sides consider to be 'superpowers') that I see a different outcome. If you've notice, I've yet to post 'goku wins cuz he's the strongest' or that you're ignorant for not agreeing.



I actually came into this topic with the naivete that this was a logical conversation on two characters and not a flame war. :(

No you're missing the point. I said that if we stripped them down to their rawest form, Goku wouldn't CHANNEL his chi. Not that he wouldn't have it. But if you're gonna say "well that wouldn't happen, he can channel it anyway!" (which I'm fairly certain you did, as I didn't really read past the first few sentences.) then Superman would retain his "channeling" of our sun's solar powers, giving him his 'powers' back.

I mean, if Goku can utalize his chi to his best ability, then Superman can utalize the solar beams to help.

[SouLeSS]

Moving fast enough for light refraction to slow down isn't a superpower...it's that the normal human body can't handle that speed that makes it impossible. We turn into messy globs way before then. However, if you'd actually notice what I was saying before, since there's no way to strip him of chi the same principle would indirectly apply- since afterimages aren't a byproduct of the martial arts so much as light refraction no longer continuing with a moving object and Goku without the chi to do that would be dead if we were talking about a living Goku the point of 'realworld physics' would still be moot. It is the application of chi in unnatural ways that conflicts with physics and not the indirect application of what's already there. Strip both combatants of this to equalize them and there would be no point to the fight. You would have the "first Shinto human effect", two people barely breathing and slumped onto the ground with most of their body withered and/ or shutting down.



You don't get it do you? Goku without chi means he's dead. Superman without chi means he's dead. Chi is needed for existence. In it's most basic form all it represents is the breath of life within us all. Without it this battle can't happen. If you're going to say any feat of strength done with the exertion of chi in the body can't be used as it's defined as a 'superpower' in your eyes and make a chi-less Goku you end up with Dead Superman vs. Dead Goku. If you would so kindly do your research into the principle you'd find that everything from breathing to excresion of waste from the body is connected to the healthy (or, at times, unhealthy) flow of chi through channels believed to be throughout the body. Hence the premise of acupuncture- restoration of the basic bodily functions. It has nothing to do with 'focus' when you move or grip something. Focusing chi to the point that you do something extraordinary that normally could never be done by the limitations of matter (and yes, at the height of human potential Son Goku's early feats are paltry) is when it can be properly designated as a 'superpower'. Thus, the Kamehameha could not be used- it's an visually outward extension of chi, something that has never been scientifically proven or recorded. But if you're so adamant of Goku having no chi whatsoever, here's a screenshot from the anime at a point where he had no chi (or what you've convoluted into a 'superpower'):

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/DeadGoku.jpg



You know, just because I'm a fan doesn't mean that I can't debate rationally. Just because I see things differently from you doesn't mean I have some ravenous agenda. I can see Superman winning in a fight with the Hulk and a Pre-Crisis Superman beating most all DBZ-related characters outside of Super Vegetto. It's just under the circumstances debated in this topic (both combatants stripped of what both sides consider to be 'superpowers') that I see a different outcome. If you've notice, I've yet to post 'goku wins cuz he's the strongest' or that you're ignorant for not agreeing.



I actually came into this topic with the naivete that this was a logical conversation on two characters and not a flame war. :(

No you're missing the point. I said that if we stripped them down to their rawest form, Goku wouldn't CHANNEL his chi. Not that he wouldn't have it. But if you're gonna say "well that wouldn't happen, he can channel it anyway!" (which I'm fairly certain you did, as I didn't really read past the first few sentences.) then Superman would retain his "channeling" of our sun's solar powers, giving him his 'powers' back.

I mean, if Goku can utalize his chi to his best ability, then Superman can utalize the solar beams to help.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

No you're missing the point. I said that if we stripped them down to their rawest form, Goku wouldn't CHANNEL his chi. Not that he wouldn't have it. But if you're gonna say "well that wouldn't happen, he can channel it anyway!" (which I'm fairly certain you did, as I didn't really read past the first few sentences.)

Yeah...I said nothing of the such. I explicitly stated that all things have chi within them, and that it is the unnatural application or conscious 'channeling' of said chi that makes things such as chi blasts possible (and thusly negated by the parameters of this thread), but that it's impossible to completely strip a being of their chi. Two completely different beasts, which kills about half of your contribution. I actually read your post before responding, so that you know...but don't mind me, I'm the 'raving fanboy who listens to nothing but his own voice'. :dry:

then Superman would retain his "channeling" of our sun's solar powers, giving him his 'powers' back.

I mean, if Goku can utalize his chi to his best ability, then Superman can utalize the solar beams to help.

All things have chi. But not all things have Kryptonian side-effects to yellow sunlight. So no, that would not be an applicable comparison in this situation.

[Ultra-Herald9]

what? i bet mr. satan could take superman with no power. goku was trained by master roshi who was a champion and hardly had that much power when he was younger

Why are we even arguing this?

[Ultra-Herald9]

Yeah...I said nothing of the such. I explicitly stated that all things have chi within them, and that it is the unnatural application or conscious 'channeling' of said chi that makes things such as chi blasts possible (and thusly negated by the parameters of this thread), but that it's impossible to completely strip a being of their chi. Two completely different beasts, which kills about half of your contribution. I actually read your post before responding, so that you know...but don't mind me, I'm the 'raving fanboy who listens to nothing but his own voice'. :dry:



All things have chi. But not all things have Kryptonian side-effects to yellow sunlight. So no, that would not be an applicable comparison in this situation.


But you are applying the law of chi on a character that was never stated to have any chi and thats not fair! Stop trying to rationalize a way for Goku to retain his power while Clark doesn't. In this fight Goku's chi is reduced to that of the level an average person yet he retains his martial art skills.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

But you are applying the law of chi on a character that was never stated to have any chi and thats not fair! Stop trying to rationalize a way for Goku to retain his power while Clark doesn't. In this fight Goku's chi is reduced to that of the level an average person yet he retains his martial art skills.

:dry:

All things have chi. All. Things. Even Clark. Even Kryptonite. Everything. The principle of chi is just that- a principle. Neither DC nor Toriyama-sensei needs to get into the laws of physics to explain why the characters stay grounded. It's something that's taken as common knowledge. The same applies to chi- no matter whom, it's inside. You can't just 'reduced Son Goku to the level of an average person'. That would be diminishing his ability to sustain himself severely and make the battle a clash of the sloths, neither person really being capable of a winning (let alone killing) blow.

And yes- chi applies to Clark. If Goku's powers could affect Superman and Superman's powers could have an affect on Goku then the same principles their powers work under have to be considered. Goku draws his power from a mix of latent and focused chi, while Superman draws power from his Kryptonian heritage and yellow solar reserves.

[Silverstein]

Toriyama-Sensei? He's not your teacher. You can only say "sensei" if you actually know him.


And anyway the characters in DBZ use "KI" and chi. Ki is energy from the world around you. It's not inside of you. Not yet anyway. It's just converted. Think "kinetic"..it turns from potential energy in the atmosphere or chi inside of birds or plants or whatever and comes to you. It's not yours.

Anyway...So being a Sayajin increases your capability to use ki. It does stregnthen your chi as well.

The characters don't have to use ki. And Goku can be drained of Chi as well. It's happened in the series before.


So in the end, yes Goku and Supes can fight without their powers. Martial Arts don't need chi or ki. Certain techniques do but Goku does not have to use them.


In fact many times Goku has made himself weaker by lowering his power level. So even if Chi is within him, he can become weaker. Remember when he fought Majin Vegeta? He could have gone SSJ3 anytime but he wanted Vegeta to feel like he was in control. That's why Goku looks away when vegeta questions him.

[ShadowBoxing]

....Correct me if I am wrong. But Goku doesn't really have powers, does he? I me is not the Dragonball fighters "abilities" all learned. Like how I can lift more than I could four years ago, although no one would consider my current strength a "power". So saying Goku has no "powers" would essentially be saying he never trained, and therefore Superman and he would be on equal standing.

[Silverstein]

True...