Objectivity

[Hunter Rider]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.

[Superfanboy]

Post of the year :up: :up:.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Post of the year :up: :up:.

Still six months to go yet mate :)

Great post hunter as usual..

I agree!

being saying that all along.

[Mentok]

Another reason HUNTER RIDER is one of the best people on here :up:

[Bad Superman]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.

The best post I've read in a long time. :up:

[Hunter Rider]

I expected to get flamed for this thread,thanks for the replies guys,i just hope in the future as more news appears about this movie we can all step back and view it fairly and objectively no matter what our conclusions end up being

[ruhanv]

Good post! :up:

[Bad Superman]

I expected to get flamed for this thread,thanks for the replies guys,i just hope in the future as more news appears about this movie we can all step back and view it fairly and objectively no matter what our conclusions end up being

The ignore list does wonders against flamers and trolls. I strongly recommend it. ;)

[bosef982]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.

Great post. But, I don't think my post is as onesided as one may think. I am too hestiant of many production notes on this film. I am simply pointing to a rampant phenomenon that is plauging these boards. I don't mean to draw sides, but I do mean to identify a problem and why it occurs and what happens when it does. I am in the middle-ground, despite what it may seem.

[skruloos]

I expected to get flamed for this thread,thanks for the replies guys,i just hope in the future as more news appears about this movie we can all step back and view it fairly and objectively no matter what our conclusions end up being
The problem is that the anonymity internet tends to bring out the worst in a lot of people. This goes for people on both sides. On one hand, you've got people posting about how the Singer suit is pissing all over an American icon and that this movie is sounding the death knell of the character. You've got people who can't see beyond their own selfish biases and already declare that this film is dead in the water. On the other side, you have the people who do blindly accept what Singer gives them, already declaring this film a victory in comic book storytelling. And that's the problem. Extremist fanboys deal with absolutes. There is no give and take. Objectivity is a nice thing to aspire for, however...reality shows that it is about as common as common sense.

I think the main problem is that people cannot look beyond their own worldview. Just because one doesn't like something does not mean that the product is bad. Many a time it just means it's not your taste. Take the suit as an example. Many people don't like it and that's fine. However, one cannot assume that that feeling is universal, like many people in the Hate thread try to make it out to be. There ARE people who prefer different things from the costume, and those who actually see the good in it. Again, the extremist fanboys deal with absolutes. The suit must be horrible and it is definitive. It is blind hatred. On the flip side, you've got people explaining that the suit is incredible because "In Singer We Trust." Blind devotion. Is it not entirely possible to see both the good and bad in the Routh suit and the Reeve suit? I don't think either one is perfect, however I do prefer the Routh suit over the Reeve suit based on the suit design itself. Whether or not it works on screen or if Routh's performance matches my expectations is still up in the air.

It's a case of "if you're not with us, you're against us" even when that isn't the case.

[The Kid]

Can we talk about the film instead of the people talking about the film? :supes: This arguing for the sake of belittling the next user you don't like or group of users you don't like isn't fun...

[Hunter Rider]

Can we talk about the film instead of the people talking about the film? :supes: This arguing for the sake of belittling the next user you don't like or group of users you don't like isn't fun...

Thats wasnt whatb i was doing,i was just making a point about how i think we shouldn't have "sides" and shouldn't be so damning so early on

[The Kid]

I don't think we should have 'sides' either so we're really on the same page :hyper: literally. I like the 'discuss the film not fans' rule on some boards. It keeps people focused on what they should be focusing on if they want to be at a place like this.

[Hunter Rider]

I don't think we should have 'sides' either so we're really on the same page :hyper: literally. I like the 'discuss the film not fans' rule on some boards. It keeps people focused on what they should be focusing on if they want to be at a place like this.

unfortunately a lot of disscussions turn to flames on here as no one respects the other side of the coin and to many don't look at whats actually happening just what they wanted to happen

[Herr Logan]

I expected to get flamed for this thread,thanks for the replies guys,i just hope in the future as more news appears about this movie we can all step back and view it fairly and objectively no matter what our conclusions end up being

Anyone who flames you for this thread can go feck themselves, Hunter. You've done something respectable and intelligent here, and anyone who would have you do otherwise is unworthy. :up:

:wolverine

[The Sage]

Great post my friend. Thou are far wiser than I...

[Thunder Emperor]

what an absoultely usless post hunter tider, i can't beleive you made such crap.

lol
great post man, just kidding. Good stuff. I wish i could be that objective.

[Michael Corleone]

Great post hunter.....If only more people would listen....its a shame

[Hunter Rider]

what an absoultely usless post hunter tider, i can't beleive you made such crap.


lol
great post man, just kidding. Good stuff. I wish i could be that objective.

hehe;)
I sincerely hope you sees omething in the trailer that get's you interested again

[Hunter Rider]

Great post my friend. Thou are far wiser than I...

thanks,actually you are one of the guys on here that when the suit came out were less verbal and after i thought about it i thought that your "wait and see some better shots" attitude was something i wished i'd done

[Thunder Emperor]

hehe;)
I sincerely hope you sees omething in the trailer that get's you interested again

i hope so, but for me its not the trailer, i need to see the script. i need to know where he i s going with his story. like i said i wish i am that objective but in my mind singer has started withthe wrong foot and it seems destined to finsinh this half a foot short. but the problemis that superman fans think about the characters movies liek the character himself. we want nothing less than stella and if it looks like we are not getting it, we ***** and moan about it. :D

[The Sage]

thanks,actually you are one of the guys on here that when the suit came out were less verbal and after i thought about it i thought that your "wait and see some better shots" attitude was something i wished i'd done

:up:

One of the reasons I haven't said much about the latest "kid" news is because I still believe the kid isn't Lois's, so I'm taking the "wait and see" approach on that issue. The costume, after seeing it in the possible right colors, looks good to me, plus it probably looks different from other angles (I noticed in the last blog from one of the storyboard pictures that the size of the emblem on one of the Superman drawings matches the size of the one on the suit). Plus, the story sounds exciting. A serious Lex Luthor. One of the three greatest villains in comicbook mythology, a genius, wreaking havoc for the Man of Steel, who has to redeem himself to the world that has possibly forgotten him? Sounds cool to me.

Plus some classic shots:

From the last blog: http://tinypic.com/5u1c7s
Superman: Secret Identity:http://tinypic.com/5u1clz

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1619&stc=1

[Thunder Emperor]

:up:

One of the reasons I haven't said much about the latest "kid" news is because I still believe the kid isn't Lois's, so I'm taking the "wait and see" approach on that issue. The costume, after seeing it in the possible right colors, looks good to me, plus it probably looks different from other angles (I noticed in the last blog from one of the storyboard pictures that the size of the emblem on one of the Superman drawings matches the size of the one on the suit). Plus, the story sounds exciting. A serious Lex Luthor. One of the three greatest villains in comicbook mythology, a genius, wreaking havoc for the Man of Steel, who has to redeem himself to the world that has possibly forgotten him? Sounds cool to me.


the problem withthis story is i would have prefered it to be a sequel. sage you been reading the ifnitine crisis tie-ins with superman 240 and 241. seeing as how max has made the people of metroplois distrust superman and making him even doubt himself. i would have loved that to be the prelude of this movie and then this being a sequel. it will show lex in his most evil form and will show superman struggling to deal with this doubt he is getting from the people his loves to protect. as for the costume i am glad you like it. nothing in that attracts me to it. i go by feeling. reeve suit i said yeah great. cain suit i said mehh could have been better. routh suit. was first reaction yuck. i go by got reaction and my reactions don't change till changes are made. but thats me and you are you. i will still say yuck when i see it on screen. :D

[Thunder Emperor]

:up:

One of the reasons I haven't said much about the latest "kid" news is because I still believe the kid isn't Lois's, so I'm taking the "wait and see" approach on that issue. The costume, after seeing it in the possible right colors, looks good to me, plus it probably looks different from other angles (I noticed in the last blog from one of the storyboard pictures that the size of the emblem on one of the Superman drawings matches the size of the one on the suit). Plus, the story sounds exciting. A serious Lex Luthor. One of the three greatest villains in comicbook mythology, a genius, wreaking havoc for the Man of Steel, who has to redeem himself to the world that has possibly forgotten him? Sounds cool to me.

Plus some classic shots:

From the last blog: http://tinypic.com/5u1c7s
Superman: Secret Identity:http://tinypic.com/5u1clz

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1619&stc=1




what are the pics for sage,don't get it. or are you agree with me that the costume designers are blind and don't know what they are doing. :D

[The Sage]

the problem withthis story is i would have prefered it to be a sequel. sage you been reading the ifnitine crisis tie-ins with superman 240 and 241. seeing as how max has made the people of metroplois distrust superman and making him even doubt himself. i would have loved that to be the prelude of this movie and then this being a sequel. it will show lex in his most evil form and will show superman struggling to deal with this doubt he is getting from the people his loves to protect. as for the costume i am glad you like it. nothing in that attracts me to it. i go by feeling. reeve suit i said yeah great. cain suit i said mehh could have been better. routh suit. was first reaction yuck. i go by got reaction and my reactions don't change till changes are made. but thats me and you are you. i will still say yuck when i see it on screen. :D

I haven't read the Infinite Crisis, just mainly the Superman and Batman books.

[Thunder Emperor]

I haven't read the Infinite Crisis, just mainly the Superman and Batman books.


you should, very good read. but you should read superman 240, 241 you understand what i am talking about. i could see why dc has being hype this series. actually destroies whatever marvel has to offer. no offense to marvel fans out there. :D ;)

[The Sage]

you should, very good read. but you should read superman 240, 241 you understand what i am talking about. i could see why dc has being hype this series. actually destroies whatever marvel has to offer. no offense to marvel fans out there. :D ;)

Huh, we're not even at Superman 240 yet. :confused:

[Thunder Emperor]

Huh, we're not even at Superman 240 yet. :confused:


sorry 640 and 218 :D

[Hunter Rider]

:up:

One of the reasons I haven't said much about the latest "kid" news is because I still believe the kid isn't Lois's, so I'm taking the "wait and see" approach on that issue. The costume, after seeing it in the possible right colors, looks good to me, plus it probably looks different from other angles (I noticed in the last blog from one of the storyboard pictures that the size of the emblem on one of the Superman drawings matches the size of the one on the suit). Plus, the story sounds exciting. A serious Lex Luthor. One of the three greatest villains in comicbook mythology, a genius, wreaking havoc for the Man of Steel, who has to redeem himself to the world that has possibly forgotten him? Sounds cool to me.

Plus some classic shots:

From the last blog: http://tinypic.com/5u1c7s
Superman: Secret Identity:http://tinypic.com/5u1clz

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1619&stc=1
The \S/On the suit i feel may always seem to small to me but recent pics have shown the colour is much better than the initial pic showed

I agree on the kid thing,Also you make some excellent observations there of classic superman elements in the movie.I was one of the main ones upset over no supervillain but as you point out superman has the huge challenge of fitting back into our world as well as dealing with Luthor and i have always been pleased with that casting ,it will be cool to have a sinister Lex for the first time in a movie version.Couple of other things that have got me is that as you said the story sounds interesting and the part they mention about "from the depths of the ocean to the outer reaches of space" sounds grand and epic in scale.I particularly like the sounds of Lex stabbing Superman with Kryptonite and his Glass yacht.

[Mentok]

The ignore list does wonders against flamers and trolls. I strongly recommend it. ;)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :up:

[Hunter Rider]

Great post. But, I don't think my post is as onesided as one may think. I am too hestiant of many production notes on this film. I am simply pointing to a rampant phenomenon that is plauging these boards. I don't mean to draw sides, but I do mean to identify a problem and why it occurs and what happens when it does. I am in the middle-ground, despite what it may seem.

Sorry i missed this the other day,i guess i perhaps misread you,i feel there is ramapant judging pattern on both sides so i did agree with some of what you said,Again if i missed judged what you were saying i apologise,i merely mentioned your post as a basis for my thread about the middle ground where i stand on these movies,especially so early in production

[Hunter Rider]

I'm bumping this because the labeling is beginning on mass in the other thread

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Great title..

wonder if people are listening.

[The Kid]

no of course not.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

no of course not.


damn.

:mad: :supes:

[true316]

Great post hunter rider! This is kind of a weird experience for me. I've never followed a movie this closely prior to release. Frankly, I've never been this excited for a movie ever! It seems tough sometimes to remember to stay level-headed. The bottom line is that I haven't seen it yet. The possibility remains for it to absolutely rock or to absolutely sink like a rock! Thanks for reminding us to try to stay objective. The effort is appreciated! :up:

[Hunter Rider]

Great post hunter rider! This is kind of a weird experience for me. I've never followed a movie this closely prior to release. Frankly, I've never been this excited for a movie ever! It seems tough sometimes to remember to stay level-headed. The bottom line is that I haven't seen it yet. The possibility remains for it to absolutely rock or to absolutely sink like a rock! Thanks for reminding us to try to stay objective. The effort is appreciated! :up:

:up:

Here's the thing,i hate that the kid is Supes and the piano scene sounds awful but that doesn't mean I'm writing the entire movie off ,the problem here is that the ones that hate the kid idea and those that are defending it are trying to force their views down each others throats and that is what causes flames
Step back weigh up the pros and cons of what we have seen read and then form YOUR opinion and let others have theirs

[SolidSnakeMGS]

:up:

the problem here is that the ones that hate the kid idea and those that are defending it are trying to force their views down each others throats and that is what causes flames


Really? I haven't seen much of that at all. I see people reacting understandably strong to the script criticism and some condemning the film outright, but I also see others that are rationally calibrating their expectations or taking a good look at their own anticipations and excitement.

[dark_b]

who said tha tteh kid is supermans?????????????????????????????????????

please, you think singer would let that this secret goes on the net? i dare to say that they filmed some scenes that are not in the script only to make a twist that almost noone knows.

[true316]

:up:

Here's the thing,i hate that the kid is Supes and the piano scene sounds awful but that doesn't mean I'm writing the entire movie off ,the problem here is that the ones that hate the kid idea and those that are defending it are trying to force their views down each others throats and that is what causes flames
Step back weigh up the pros and cons of what we have seen read and then form YOUR opinion and let others have theirs

Yeah, I took a quick glance at the Moriarty thread but I think I'm gonna try to avoid it. I don't want to many script spoilers. Beyond that, I 100% agree with what you wrote there. Moriarty is entitled to his view on the script. I'm taking the same approach with this movie that I am taking with X3. Basically, I want to see the movie first and then I will make my final judgement. Facts are facts, but when we are talking opinions, to each his own. :up:

[Hunter Rider]

Really? I haven't seen much of that at all. I see people reacting understandably strong to the script criticism and some condemning the film outright, but I also see others that are rationally calibrating their expectations or taking a good look at their own anticipations and excitement.
Ive seen the sheep and Fanboy denial comments though,my point being some are writing enormous posts on how the kid will be fine while others are dogging the whole concept that some can find it ok
Anyway this thread is really just a reminder to try and cool off,flip flopping of emotions are guaranteed with the trailer tonight so maybe everyone needs to reserve hyperbole until then

[POWdER-man]

WOW Hunter...that's amazing....:up:

That's exactly the kind of attitude and respect we need in the SM3 forum. I hope you frequent it more often because we need posters like you.....:up:

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well done Hunter Rider. ;):up:

[Excel]

chhhhiiiiaaaaaaa...good post hunter!

[Hunter Rider]

Thanks guys,things are settling down a bit now:up: but we still got another trailer to go though:eek: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Nivek]

Good post HR. We may not see eye to eye, but I respect what was said, and the way you said it. I would love to talk about the movie again, it's just hard to when there is so much rampant negativity that good, well thought out comments get drowned out by people simply interested in the bad, or just have their own agenda.

I havn't even wrote here what I really thought about the trailer itself other than "I liked it, I give it an 8/10". I wish I could say more than that somewhere without getting drowned out by overhyped critisms and ego.

[The Kid]

I"m not being evil and negative nitpicker singer-hater. The only comments tha should be posted are ones that praise everything, I think. I made a thread about liking the superkid and it looks like there are others who like him too. We should all like him. I hate everyone who doesn't.

I've been on the internet a long time and it all boils down to this. The only opinions that matter are the ones that make people feel comfortable. If it's the opinion of the majority that does it whether positive or neg, that's the way it is. Cuz if you look like you really say you didn't like something, people will feel defensive against that and question you WHY, WHAT, HOW, but if you say you liked it, it's OF COURSE. I'm glad I'm choosing to be positive studio drone. Everbody will like me and I'll feel comfortable.

[Showtime]

I gotta hand it to you Hunter, you're as cool as the other side of the pillow.

[Hunter Rider]

Good post HR. We may not see eye to eye, but I respect what was said, and the way you said it. I would love to talk about the movie again, it's just hard to when there is so much rampant negativity that good, well thought out comments get drowned out by people simply interested in the bad, or just have their own agenda.

I havn't even wrote here what I really thought about the trailer itself other than "I liked it, I give it an 8/10". I wish I could say more than that somewhere without getting drowned out by overhyped critisms and ego.

I understand Nivek,things have gotten heated,as far as im concerned lets just start fresh and talk SR rationaly:up:


I gotta hand it to you Hunter, you're as cool as the other side of the pillow.

:O :up:

I"m not being evil and negative nitpicker singer-hater. The only comments tha should be posted are ones that praise everything, I think. I made a thread about liking the superkid and it looks like there are others who like him too. We should all like him. I hate everyone who doesn't.

I've been on the internet a long time and it all boils down to this. The only opinions that matter are the ones that make people feel comfortable. If it's the opinion of the majority that does it whether positive or neg, that's the way it is. Cuz if you look like you really say you didn't like something, people will feel defensive against that and question you WHY, WHAT, HOW, but if you say you liked it, it's OF COURSE. I'm glad I'm choosing to be positive studio drone. Everbody will like me and I'll feel comfortable.

LOL this is kinda the opposite of your being like Sym post in the X boards:confused: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[The Kid]

oh I didn't think anyone would notice. good catch. Ya got me... my hands are red.

[invincible mann]

a movie by singer that may have flaws is better then no movie at all

[Masut]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.

I am one of 'the rest of you' who respect source material but can adapt to change. This doesn't mean I'm a ball of play dough that can be manipulated by other people's comments and idea's. I have strong thoughts and opinions of my own and while expressing them, I don't let them get the better of me and I hold respect for those making the changes themselves as well as being open and listening to other people's thoughts. As a Director, Singer's role is to bring his visualisation of Superman to the screen and to show his interpretation of the script.

Think of other Director's. Then think of what they would have brought to Superman. Every one is different, and that's what makes this all interesting for me. What we do here is discuss the ideas and decisions these people and their teams have made and can only hope that it's similar to what we perceive in our heads. Singer's Superman is probably exactly how some of you guys pictured Supes to be! To other's it's something different entirely!

The only real way to get what you want is to do it yourself. And heh, that might take a while to do. So I'm grateful in a way that these hard working guys are bringing an awesome character to life. But if you really don't like what studios and directors do to characters and films, then use it as a drive to go study film or make your own movies! Hell that's what I plan to do one day.

So good post Hunter. A lot of us share the same thoughts as yourself. :up:

[Nivek]

I understand Nivek,things have gotten heated,as far as im concerned lets just start fresh and talk SR rationaly:up:
:O :up:

I would really like to do that. Thanks!:up:

[The Kid]

I don't have to see this movie to know I like it.

[Hunter Rider]

After the ugliness that developed in Matt's thread i thought I'd give this one another shot:)

[chi-boy]

The problem is that the anonymity internet tends to bring out the worst in a lot of people. This goes for people on both sides. On one hand, you've got people posting about how the Singer suit is pissing all over an American icon and that this movie is sounding the death knell of the character. You've got people who can't see beyond their own selfish biases and already declare that this film is dead in the water. On the other side, you have the people who do blindly accept what Singer gives them, already declaring this film a victory in comic book storytelling. And that's the problem. Extremist fanboys deal with absolutes. There is no give and take. Objectivity is a nice thing to aspire for, however...reality shows that it is about as common as common sense.

I think the main problem is that people cannot look beyond their own worldview. Just because one doesn't like something does not mean that the product is bad. Many a time it just means it's not your taste. Take the suit as an example. Many people don't like it and that's fine. However, one cannot assume that that feeling is universal, like many people in the Hate thread try to make it out to be. There ARE people who prefer different things from the costume, and those who actually see the good in it. Again, the extremist fanboys deal with absolutes. The suit must be horrible and it is definitive. It is blind hatred. On the flip side, you've got people explaining that the suit is incredible because "In Singer We Trust." Blind devotion. Is it not entirely possible to see both the good and bad in the Routh suit and the Reeve suit? I don't think either one is perfect, however I do prefer the Routh suit over the Reeve suit based on the suit design itself. Whether or not it works on screen or if Routh's performance matches my expectations is still up in the air.

It's a case of "if you're not with us, you're against us" even when that isn't the case.

yeah, good job repeating what hunter said in a less elegant manner. credit whore.

[Nivek]

yeah, good job repeating what hunter said in a less elegant manner. credit whore.

Well, you HAD good intentions Hunter. Too bad people like stirring the s#1t too much.

[Metropolis_Man]

a movie by singer that may have flaws is better then no movie at all

And I think its even less flaws than we would've scene with any other director.

[DvilDog]

Spectacular post my friend. This is just me Im sure other people handle it differently. If i see someone thats completly trashing the flick based off a few trailers, and if they read the book(i know mine better be here tomorrow) then i tend to just read and keep quiet. This may be sad but when we discuss the new Supes i kind of feel like we are discussing a real life person. I mean lets be honest here. Would Supes want us to be bickering and fighting over how his costume looks, or the whole situation with the kid? I honestly think if he saw that happening he would be extremely dissapointed. Theres a little Superness in all of us. And definitly some Luthor as well. Thats what makes a lot of the comic book characters so likeable or unlikeable. We connect with these guys on a personal and emotional level. Hey I could be wrong but, thats how i feel. If discussing Supes brings out the Luthor in us then why discuss at all?

[C. Lee]

yeah, good job repeating what hunter said in a less elegant manner. credit whore.
This post is one of the reasons you are currently on probation....if you can't talk to grownups like a civil human being....you will spend a great deal of time in time out like a little child.

[millennium movies]

After the ugliness that developed in Matt's thread i thought I'd give this one another shot:)

Well considering that i PM'ed C. Lee about making myself the thread you just made, your lucky he left it open. He wasn't for the idea specialy for the heat that happened in the other one. Looks like so far this has remained low key...

But right on the money with your topic starter. Im 100% with you!

[iLLy_DNA]

Yayy My turn to chime in and repeat everything you said in different words. Fans come in all different shapes and sizes with varying degrees of objectivity. Some people want to see specific issues of a comic translated word for word/panel for panel onscreen. Others dont mind seeing an adaptation. Some people will kill your mom over Superman's collar, some people are just happy to see somethiing called Superman in the movies and would accept a purple suit with an \S/ bowtie. I personally think that's pretty cool and I have a good time reading the different views. I think the mod's do a pretty good job at keeping things civil but there will always be discussions and there will always be butting heads over certain issues. No elegantly written Rally Speech is going to stop that.

I guess the one thing I do notice that probably wont ever change either is that people grasp on to certain tidbits they read like its stone cold fact and it gets blown out of proportion. I think the X3 boards are a good example. Even after it was utterly obvious Cyclops was going to die early on in the film people still held out hope that he'd return in the end...one of the reasons being a quote from one of the writers. well the quote could be taken in so many different ways but they latched on to that and after a million discussions it came to mean something that it wasnt supposed to. After lurking on this board since Spider-Man 1 I've seen it happen time and time again. Dont get me started on www.organicwebshooterssuck.com or whatever that site was. And it happens on positive points as well as negative points. And it gets to the point where quick comments from people on the production go from being things that came out spur of the moment that werent very thought out to being 100% concrete fact to cause a mass hysteria about.

So in the end you can either be a poster who enjoys getting caught up in the details and discussing every little bit of info that comes out. Or you can be on the other extreme which is like me and sit back and watch it all unfold at a distance. Or you can be anywhere in between. Just do your best to keep it civil or a mod will come along and help with that.


ahh i love the Hype. :supes:

[The Kid]

Absolutely agreed.

As a wise man once sang.

"Every day when you're walking down the street
Everybody that you meet has an original point of view
And I say - Hey! (Hey!) what a wonderful kind of day
If we could learn to work and play and get along with each other

You gotta listen to your heart listen to the beat.
Listen to the rhythm, the rhythm of the street.
Open up your eyes. Open up your ears.
Get together and make things better by working together.

It's a simple message and it comes from the heart
Believe in yourself for that's the place to start

And I say - Hey! (Hey!) What a wonderful kind of day.
If we could learn to work and play and get along with each other.

Hey! What a wonderful kind of day. Hey!
What a wonderful kind of day. Hey!" Arthur theme - pbs kids.

[batman44]

Great post Hunter Rider.

[Steelsheen]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.
BRAVO!!! :up: http://www.foroedonkey.com/vb/images/smilies/eusa_clap.gif

i cant believe i missed this :O. must've been those days where i purposely skipped this forum becuase its the same thing day in and day out-- raining Gushers and Bashers. its like you cant say something unless some moron calls on you and undermines your statement. and they feel better for it? a lot of the times i felt like i was posting with a bunch of 12 year olds, so instead of lowering myself to their level, i just left.

lots of folks have left because of that reason or another, and its a crying shame since a good deal of them are worthy posters that made this forum great. i dont think blaming management will resolve this. the welfare of a forum is only as good as the posters who contribute to it.

[millennium movies]

One objectivity i see that i had to get out there, although not SR related;
the amount of but kissing SHH is doing for some films (X3?), just look at the front site and you will understand. I hate "bureaucrats"...

[Showtime]

You will see the same thing of Superman Returns in late June. I am excited about seeing X-Men. I am going to rent the 1st two and then go see the 3rd one.

[millennium movies]

Well i have nothing against the film , any film , i just dont like the move on SHH's part. I dont like websites submiting itselves to those big studios. Its like some have become a big AD destination full of pop-ups and such. Im very annoyed by it. I guess im the only one. Its almost starting to turn out like the show ET, less about filmaking and more about scandals and gossip. In this case a studio puppet site...

[Hunter Rider]

The front page is dedicated to X3 because SHH have bagged some big interviews with the cast,it's a way to get their site hits,i see no issue with this,they will do it for SR as well and did it last year for BB and F4

[Showtime]

Well i have nothing against the film , any film , i just dont like the move on SHH's part. I dont like websites submiting itselves to those big studios. Its like some have become a big AD destination full of pop-ups and such. Im very annoyed by it. I guess im the only one. Its almost starting to turn out like the show ET, less about filmaking and more about scandals and gossip. In this case a studio puppet site...

I don't Double M, I think it's not a problem. I think it's great exposure for both X-3 and SHH. Crossover.

[millennium movies]

It is im shure but i just hope this is not the start of a studios starting to "own" SHH. But your right on that matter ^

[Bad Superman]

Unfortunately not much has changed.

[millennium movies]

What do you mean Bad Superman?

[newmexneon]

Jesus, you guys are starting to sound like presidential campaign managers. It's just a movie!!

[Showtime]

Jesus, you guys are starting to sound like presidential campaign managers. It's just a movie!!

I am not getting the reference Mex? :confused:

[Bad Superman]

What do you mean Bad Superman?

There are some posters who still don't respect different views on the film and Superman in general.

Hunter's post pretty much sums it up. :up: Here's hoping for a more tolerant crowd. :up:

[Mara Jane]

Yayy My turn to chime in and repeat everything you said in different words. Fans come in all different shapes and sizes with varying degrees of objectivity. Some people want to see specific issues of a comic translated word for word/panel for panel onscreen. Others dont mind seeing an adaptation. Some people will kill your mom over Superman's collar, some people are just happy to see somethiing called Superman in the movies and would accept a purple suit with an \S/ bowtie. I personally think that's pretty cool and I have a good time reading the different views. I think the mod's do a pretty good job at keeping things civil but there will always be discussions and there will always be butting heads over certain issues. No elegantly written Rally Speech is going to stop that.

I guess the one thing I do notice that probably wont ever change either is that people grasp on to certain tidbits they read like its stone cold fact and it gets blown out of proportion. I think the X3 boards are a good example. Even after it was utterly obvious Cyclops was going to die early on in the film people still held out hope that he'd return in the end...one of the reasons being a quote from one of the writers. well the quote could be taken in so many different ways but they latched on to that and after a million discussions it came to mean something that it wasnt supposed to. After lurking on this board since Spider-Man 1 I've seen it happen time and time again. Dont get me started on www.organicwebshooterssuck.com or whatever that site was. And it happens on positive points as well as negative points. And it gets to the point where quick comments from people on the production go from being things that came out spur of the moment that werent very thought out to being 100% concrete fact to cause a mass hysteria about.

So in the end you can either be a poster who enjoys getting caught up in the details and discussing every little bit of info that comes out. Or you can be on the other extreme which is like me and sit back and watch it all unfold at a distance. Or you can be anywhere in between. Just do your best to keep it civil or a mod will come along and help with that.


ahh i love the Hype. :supes:

GAH!! Just because I'm in the SR Spoilers forum doesn't mean I want to be spoiled for X3! :(

[The Kid]

Jesus, you guys are starting to sound like presidential campaign managers. It's just a movie!!

It's not just a movie to me. It's everything in my life. It's my religion.:up: