What's the symbol?

[Chris Wallace]

Clearly, this :supes: is not an "S". Not on Krypton anyway. If it were, Jor-El wouldn't have worn it & he wouldn't have put it in his son's ship. So what is it?

[mathhater]

Superman is a lot like Arthurian Legend, in that there's no one definitive version of his story, and with each different take on it, there's a few variations. For example, In the Superman movies as well as in Lois & Clark, the "S" is the family crest of the house of EL. In the current continuity of comics (after the 1986 relaunch) the "S" is a variation on a symbol representing the Kent family. In the "Birthright" story, while I can't remember what it represents exactly, I do know that the "S" means something to the entire planet of Krypton. And it's too early to say right now what the "S" would stand for in the Smallville continuity, but it looks like the symbol is going to be taken from the Kryptonian symbol for "air." But that's just an early guess at this point. The creators of Superman knew they wanted that "S" to stand for Superman, so that's why it was put on him in the first place, and since then there have been many different takes as to why, in terms of the mythology, this character would wear an "S."

P.S. The only thing I'm not sure on, is what the "S" stood for before the 1986 relaunch...I may have to look into that.

[Chris Wallace]

Impressive. I kinda figured it was something like that. I half expected to get immediately flamed rather than attempt to give an articulate answer. It just seems to me that Kryptonians would have a language all their own, but to my knowledge this has only in very recent years been touched upon.

[DarkKnightJRK]

I believe during the '86 relaunch, it was just a symbol. Nothing that really SYMBOLIZES anything, just a snazzy looking S.

[MatchesMalone]

I believe during the '86 relaunch, it was just a symbol. Nothing that really SYMBOLIZES anything, just a snazzy looking S.

That's correct, it was something Jonathan made in his contribution to the suit, IIRC.

"Birthright" is actually an official, in-continuity reboot to Superman's origin story that DC did to update the story for the Smallville generation. So the "S" shield is really Kryptonian, and according to Birthright was a family crest on Krypton millennia ago, which was eventually adopted by all of Krypton as a symbol of hope after years of bloody wars.

I liked Birthright a lot, but for me "Superman For All Seasons" is better. I like having Clark be a country boy in the big city, and I have always liked his personality being "salt of the earth".

[Spike_x1]

One thing that is interesting is that the symbol burned onto Clark's chest in Smallville is the kryptonian letter "S" (in the comic's continuity), but I think the show said that it represents air.

Only those who know the kryptonian dictionary (for lack of a better term) would really know that. It makes reading kryptonian dailogue much easier and less mysterious.

[Chris Wallace]

Actually it looks more like a figure 8 on "Smallville".

[The Sage]

Birthright's explanation of the emblem representing hope is the best explanation IMO, as that is what Superman represents to Earth: a beacon of hope.

[SuperVenom]

Heres a little something I made. This is soon to replace it:

http://img139.echo.cx/img139/516/superv1cr.jpg

"We..are SuperVenom!"

Thanks to Imageshack.us for hosting

[Lobo]

Didin't Spider-Boy from Amalgam have a symbol similar to that

[SuperVenom]

Wow I didnt know there was a Spider-Boy Amalgam. It probably was similar, seeing that both Venom and Spider Man have a spider on their chest (although Venoms looks better IMO).

[pwhitrow]

I didn't know about that either... but looks like I'm gonna have to get it now..

http://www.oafe.net/customs/dcm_spiderboy.php

[Hyper Venom]

One thing that is interesting is that the symbol burned onto Clark's chest in Smallville is the kryptonian letter "S" (in the comic's continuity), but I think the show said that it represents air.

Only those who know the kryptonian dictionary (for lack of a better term) would really know that. It makes reading kryptonian dailogue much easier and less mysterious.
Is there really a Kryptonian Dictionary? I know somebody actually went and made a Klingon Dictionary, and somebody actually went and memorized it.

[M.O.Steel]

I think the origianl meaning of the \S/ is actual a family symbol of the kent's native american background. There was a quilt with the snake (in the shape of the S) inside the diamond, which belonged and was passed down each generation in the kent family (not El's)

[Chris Wallace]

Then why would it have been in his ship? Why did Jor-El bear it?

[M.O.Steel]

Then why would it have been in his ship? Why did Jor-El bear it?

That's only in the movie adaption, and now Smallville and L&C and Birthright, it is becoming more and more the accepted origin. BUT, that is NOT the original meanign of the S.

[Chris Wallace]

Another reason why I'm not a big DC fan; too many alternate histories.

[M.O.Steel]

Another reason why I'm not a big DC fan; too many alternate histories.

But Marvel has that too. I mean, the whole ultimate series? This issue isn't just with DC. Every generation, they revamp the story, keeping what they like and changign things to make sense or make things more interesting. Having the S from his planet gives the Symbol more meaning and more depth to the character of superman. Just like how the origin fo venom changed from being alien oriented to something created by scientists (CIA?). there's a million different kinds of spiderman let alone the spin-offs like spidergirl, spider women, and spiderboy. Elektra was just an assasin in the original run, but the ultimates made murdock and elektra college sweethearts. The X-men are completely different.

I'm not trying to prove one is better than the other (even though since superman is my favorite i lean towards DC), i'm just saying that issue is with all companies.

[Chris Wallace]

The difference is that Ultimate is like a pocket universe; it doesn't erase 40 years of history.
I still don't buy the "Kent family crest" theory. 1-why wouldn't it be a "K"? 2-why would somebody trying to maintain a dual identity wear the symbol of a family that he doesn't wanna be tied to? That'd be like Batman wearing a Waynetech logo.

[Binker]

From what I remember from Birthright, the S (put it this way; the whole thing baby Kal-El wears when he was in the rocket that eventually becomes his costume) is sorta like a Krypton flag.

[M.O.Steel]

The difference is that Ultimate is like a pocket universe; it doesn't erase 40 years of history.
I still don't buy the "Kent family crest" theory. 1-why wouldn't it be a "K"? 2-why would somebody trying to maintain a dual identity wear the symbol of a family that he doesn't wanna be tied to? That'd be like Batman wearing a Waynetech logo.

1. The shape is not intended to be an S, but snake just happens to be that way, Just like the medical symbol with the two snakes around the winged staff.

2. It's not like the symbol is famous kent family symbol. It's not like some random guy will see the S and say, oh ****, that's the kent family symbol ,that must be martha's kid, clark.

http://thedarkknight.com/superman.php?action=costumes

There you go.

[mathhater]

I think the origianl meaning of the \S/ is actual a family symbol of the kent's native american background. There was a quilt with the snake (in the shape of the S) inside the diamond, which belonged and was passed down each generation in the kent family (not El's)

This was after the '86 relaunch...so it's not quite the original meaning.

[Chris Wallace]

Didin't Spider-Boy from Amalgam have a symbol similar to that
It was red & yellow, & the legs were different.

[Trooper]

everyone on krypton had different symbols, i guess the \S/ on his chest is a different font to the \S/ on Jor-el's never the less the same figure.

[Morgoth]

But Marvel has that too. I mean, the whole ultimate series? Then what about All Star. Except for Batman DC sucks. And their allstar is a rip off of Ultimate, at least Marvel puts their Ultimate stuff in seperate books and doesn't keep changing continuity in the reg. cont. books.

[Chris Wallace]

What He Said.

[Mister J]

I like the current interpretation of the \S/ as 'hope'. It carries a deeper symbolism of what Superman is all about, beyond the other meanings it's held.

According to 52-Week 2, when the symbol is inverted, it then translates to 'resurrection'.

[Superman79]

I personally like the Krytonian origin in Birthright and S:TM. The pure conicidence that the Kryptonian symbol looks like an S always struck me as kind of cool. Plus , Clark is not the pompous ass type who would ever voluntarily put an S on his chest thinking..."Gee, I hope they catch on and call me Superman" or somthing.

[Whack Arnolds]

I personally like the Krytonian origin in Birthright and S:TM. The pure conicidence that the Kryptonian symbol looks like an S always struck me as kind of cool. Plus , Clark is not the pompous ass type who would ever voluntarily put an S on his chest thinking..."Gee, I hope they catch on and call me Superman" or somthing.Yup. Spot on analyzations here. The fact that it is a symbol of hope for Krypton ala Birthright, then translated to Earth as a symbol of hope (I.E. Superman) makes for an awesome story and brillaint backlog and connection of the two species. Clark making the "S" and CALLING HIMSELF Superman is just plain retarded. As is the rest of Man of Steel.

['N']

matches malone made a comment ways back on page 1, about

"for all seasons being better" the birthrite and i have to agree that any orgins written by loeb, and drawn by sale, including batman long hollow and dark victory,