View Full Version : The Official Captain America Thread
CaptainCanada
02-21-2009, 11:10 PM
Marvel's eight new Dark Reign posters (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/02/exclusive-cover.html) were given to the LA Times blog a few days ago; New Cap's got one, and I'd say it's probably the strongest of the lot (followed by the Loki/Thor one).
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/ColonelGreen/6a00d8341c630a53ef011278ff62b428a4-.jpg
It's been speculated that, since this poster is by Salvador Larroca, and Bucky's been trailed as appearing in Invincible Iron Man at some point in the near future, whether this isn't a cover or somesuch thing (Marvel rarely wastes a good piece of art).
Dread
02-21-2009, 11:40 PM
If it is NEW AVENGERS, I am not bothering. But if it is some story in CAPTAIN AMERICA or one of the other titles I do get, then bravo.
TheCorpulent1
02-22-2009, 09:25 AM
The Thor one is cool, although the waifish Loki holding up Thor's massive ass is kind of silly before you accept the Pieta conceit.
chamber-music
02-22-2009, 09:37 AM
Son of Jor-El! Kneel before Zod!
Hmmm,I can see Norman blackmailing Bucky with some past info to hunt down Stark.
Butch Guice should do fill-ins on everything. I swear, it's like Christmas comes early every time I open up a comic and find Guice's pencils instead of work from the artist I expected. I love his art so much.
it's a damn shame he isn't on the book more,his style easily trumps Ross'
I hope Marvel gives his something fulltime soon
Brubaker's new project (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19961) should be an interesting companion piece to the series. I was just thinking a few days ago that I'd like to see Brubaker do a sort of definitive take on Cap's origin story; this plays into that.
Sounds like Epting won't be around for Cap #50, though, which feels a bit odd. Guice and Ross are great too, though.
The Marvels Project sounds awesome.It's going to make for one hell of a trade.
TheCorpulent1
02-22-2009, 10:00 AM
it's a damn shame he isn't on the book more,his style easily trumps Ross'
I hope Marvel gives his something fulltime soon
He's been drawing Skaar lately. Although Ron Lim is taking over Skaar soon, so who knows where he'll go after that? I hope he does at least one fill-in on Thor. :up:
After seeing what Djurdjevic can do on interiors,I'm excited for the next couple issues of Thor.I decided to stick with the book despite the high price tag.The book has been nothing but quality since the start and I just dropped 3 or 4 other titles which had my interest dwindling.
THANOSRULES
02-22-2009, 07:36 PM
He's been drawing Skaar lately. Although Ron Lim is taking over Skaar soon, so who knows where he'll go after that? I hope he does at least one fill-in on Thor. :up:
If that's rue I'll be adding it to my pull list..frankly I thought the book looked pretty cool anyway.
I wish they'd let guys like Lim and Bagely back on some top books. Lim belongs in Marvel Cosmics....of anything overdone in the 90s..I don't think anyone sees Lim as being the cuase of those problems.
Good Solid artists who can make deadlines...how did these guys fall out of favor?
TheCorpulent1
02-22-2009, 07:37 PM
I have no idea why Ron Lim isn't drawing more Marvel cosmic stuff. I'm glad he's gonna get regular work on Skaar, but I'd totally prefer him on Guardians of the Galaxy.
CaptainCanada
03-05-2009, 09:13 AM
Somebody on Newsarama found this on Marvel's site:
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Captain_America?checklist=show
It's a checklist of recent/upcoming Captain America comics, and seems to confirm that they're doing the #600 thing in June.
TheCorpulent1
03-05-2009, 09:34 AM
Awesome. And, hey, you can find checklists for other comics by replacing "Captain_America" in the URL with other titles! :D
chris moore
03-05-2009, 09:34 AM
One thing I thought about today when I bought Reunion #1 was where does Cap's money come from? When Cap was Steve, other than assuming he drew in a hefty sum from SHIELD, his apartment was most often shown to be a regular open plan Brooklyn loft style place with a gym in the basement. Now however it appears to have at least 7 bedrooms, enormous computer terminal, digital camouflage etc.
New Avengers living in a Rand building - sure, he has a company. Avengers in general throughout the years - sure, Stark paid and each had a stipend that presumably Clint used on the road etc. Other heroes not in teams - pretty much all have a private identity if not a secret one, so they had a job that paid the bills. But Bucky? He has no other life (same as Steve), and as his life before Cap was an on ice assassin I doubt they paid him for each job. So he must be living off Steve's accounts right?
TheCorpulent1
03-05-2009, 09:47 AM
SHIELD furnished Cap with all the stuff in his current apartment back in the early days of Brubaker's run. In the Cap series before that, Steve had been living in an apartment in some part of New York--Brooklyn, I want to say, but I'm not sure--in order to stay close to the people he was trying to protect. But it got destroyed and those people were endangered, so Cap moved over to the current apartment, which Fury set up for him. I don't think they ever showed all the rooms, but I remember the cloaking thing to make it appear to be a run-down, nondescript warehouse or something. Presumably, Bucky's just using the stuff Cap already had, since SHIELD is obviously not supporting him any longer.
CaptainCanada
03-05-2009, 10:36 AM
I wondered this a while ago when Bucky destroyed that motorcycle in the fight with Batroc.
Maybe, in the proud American tradition, he bums money off his girlfriend?
Probably though, just assume that Tony set him up with a slush fund somewhere to pay the bills.
TheCorpulent1
03-05-2009, 10:40 AM
Yeah, that's what I figured. SHIELD's not in a position to give money to anyone, but Tony's meant to be looking after Bucky for Steve-O.
Franklin Richards
03-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Cap got a thousand a week for several years. Maybe he made a few fiscally responsible investments.
"I bought some stock in a new company called Apple. I hope it's good."
:thing: :thing: :thing:
moraldeficiency
03-05-2009, 10:44 AM
Now he's forrest gump?
Franklin Richards
03-05-2009, 10:45 AM
After kissing Black Widow...
"That girl tasted like cigarettes."
:thing: :doom: :thing:
Vanguard07
03-05-2009, 09:54 PM
Plus he was a spy for decades. It's pretty standard spy fare to have various safety deposit boxes and hidden stashes full of usefull stuff like bundles of cash and passports and things.
TheCorpulent1
03-06-2009, 07:46 AM
Who, Bucky? I doubt that's true in his case. He was a programmed assassin kept in suspended animation for most of his life between WWII and the present. I'm sure the Soviet government and later Lukin took care of whatever supplies he needed.
Anubis
03-06-2009, 08:15 PM
Or, as with all employees of Lukin's, he had stock options, and he sold them before he began his final attack on Lukin/Skull before the bottom fell out after it was all over.
CaptainCanada
03-14-2009, 10:11 AM
http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Tom_Brevoort/
Brevoort's latest blog entry includes a couple of Cap-related images, notably one from #49 which is pretty neat.
Dread
03-14-2009, 03:24 PM
At least while Bucky was working with Tony Stark semi-officially, I am sure he was paid out of SHIELD's budget. It may be possible that he funneled some money somewhere during World War II or has some accounts from his Winter Soldier days that Lukin/Skull didn't close or access. Remember that Lukin until the end believed Bucky could be "turned" back to them.
Or Black Widow could be his sugar momma. ;)
Congo Jack
03-14-2009, 07:07 PM
At least while Bucky was working with Tony Stark semi-officially, I am sure he was paid out of SHIELD's budget. It may be possible that he funneled some money somewhere during World War II or has some accounts from his Winter Soldier days that Lukin/Skull didn't close or access. Remember that Lukin until the end believed Bucky could be "turned" back to them.
In an issue of WOLVERINE, Bucky tells a female agent he was employing to take as much money as she wants from an old KGB fund. I can't recall if this was ever elaborated more in CA but if not, it's probably safe to assume Bucky's rich.
hippie_hunter
03-18-2009, 11:48 AM
Captain America #51 will be Captain America #600 in June
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Captain_America?checklist=show
And Daredevil will hit #500 in August with issue #120
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Daredevil?checklist=show
TheCorpulent1
03-18-2009, 12:01 PM
Cool. Big numbers for big characters. I like it.
Anubis
03-18-2009, 12:42 PM
You know, I'm kinda happy they've moved away from starting things over with a new #1 and instead slapping insanely large numbers on the books instead.
TheCorpulent1
03-18-2009, 01:35 PM
Yeah, I'd rather be on a miscounted volume 1 numbering than an accurate volume 5 numbering that's in the mid-20s--at least for the big, enduring A-listers like Iron Man, Cap, Daredevil, Spider-Man, etc.
Kevin
03-18-2009, 04:02 PM
Captain America #51 will be Captain America #600 in June
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Captain_America?checklist=show
And Daredevil will hit #500 in August with issue #120
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Daredevil?checklist=show
That is awesome. I knida wanna cry now. It's just beautful. Big Numbers.
Dread
03-18-2009, 06:16 PM
CAPTAIN AMERICA #600 has a nice ring to it. It also will note more than two years since Steve Rogers died. At some point Marvel has to realize that "New Cap" has been selling twice as many comics as Brubaker's Steve run was selling before CIVIL WAR and the ramp up to the death. Even Bendis, the Non-EIC, approves. Captain America has been a legacy hero so unless they plan on bringing Steve back for the movie in 2012, Buck may get some more time to play.
But in the short term, it's all good. Big numbers and more of Brubaker's incredible run.
Colossal Spoons
03-18-2009, 06:22 PM
Captain America #51 will be Captain America #600 in June
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Captain_America?checklist=show
And Daredevil will hit #500 in August with issue #120
http://www.marvel.com/comics/Daredevil?checklist=show
Marvel's goin nuts w/ this numbering.
Dread
03-18-2009, 06:24 PM
It will only be for books when they have to relaunch them, but many of the books that are returning to triple numbers are selling well enough that it isn't nearly a problem. It's not like someone wants to renumber CAPTAIN BRITAIN & MI-13 into EXCALIBUR #350 or something.
hippie_hunter
03-18-2009, 06:33 PM
Yeah, I'd rather be on a miscounted volume 1 numbering than an accurate volume 5 numbering that's in the mid-20s--at least for the big, enduring A-listers like Iron Man, Cap, Daredevil, Spider-Man, etc.
To be fair, the only miscounted ones are Hulk and Thor. And that's because of title changes of Thor and Incredible Hulk into Journey into Mystery and the Incredible Hercules along needlessly forgetting the fact that Hulk had a six issue ongoing that was quickly canned when he first came about.
Captain America, Daredevil, Spider-Man, Avengers, and Fantastic Fours' numbers on the other hand all make complete logical sense. Captain America Comics isn't counted as Captain America v1 for some reason by comic book researchers and historians so we can just simply ignore that. And it's just basic math of adding the multiple series that those characters had. So in the end, it's sort of an accurate volume 1 numbering for most of the books.
CaptainCanada
03-18-2009, 08:16 PM
To be fair, the only miscounted ones are Hulk and Thor. And that's because of title changes of Thor and Incredible Hulk into Journey into Mystery and the Incredible Hercules
That doesn't cause a miscount; in both cases, they shift the "line" at the point where the title character departed.
hippie_hunter
03-18-2009, 08:53 PM
But with Thor you had the book start as Journey into Mystery and it ended as Journey into Mystery. Yet Journey into Mystery #1-119 count, yet the Journey into Mystery after Thor got retitled back doesn't?
TheCorpulent1
03-18-2009, 08:54 PM
Yeah, that didn't make sense to me. They counted the 82 Thor-less issues before Thor became the central character of JIM; they ought to count all of the JIM issues after Thor left to dick around in the Heroes Reborn universe, too. They actually had more of a connection to Thor than the earlier JIM issues that didn't directly feature him, since they followed the fallen gods of Asgard.
Texas
03-19-2009, 10:03 AM
To be fair, the only miscounted ones are Hulk and Thor. And that's because of title changes of Thor and Incredible Hulk into Journey into Mystery and the Incredible Hercules along needlessly forgetting the fact that Hulk had a six issue ongoing that was quickly canned when he first came about.
Captain America, Daredevil, Spider-Man, Avengers, and Fantastic Fours' numbers on the other hand all make complete logical sense. Captain America Comics isn't counted as Captain America v1 for some reason by comic book researchers and historians so we can just simply ignore that. And it's just basic math of adding the multiple series that those characters had. So in the end, it's sort of an accurate volume 1 numbering for most of the books.
You do realize that Cap was featured in Tales of Suspense before he got his own comic, right ? So he should be no different than Thor or Hulk :huh:
hippie_hunter
03-19-2009, 10:34 AM
You do realize that Cap was featured in Tales of Suspense before he got his own comic, right ? So he should be no different than Thor or Hulk :huh:
With Hulk you had the Incredible Hulk become the Incredible Hercules with issue #120 along with the fact that Marvel completely forgot the six issue Incredible Hulk v1. At least with Captain America, Captain America Comics was never considered Captain America v1.
And with Thor you had the book return to the title Journey into Mystery with issue #503 until issue #521. Having Journey into Mystery #1 - 125 be a part of Thor's numbering makes sense. It became Thor's book. But ignoring Journey into Mystery #503 - 521 not count at all makes little sense since they are still part of the same book. It makes even less sense when you look at the fact that issues #503 - 521 were more connected to Thor than issues #1 - 82.
With Captain America however, it's simple. Tales of Suspense became his book and stayed that way. It didn't go back to being Tales of Suspense nor did any of Cap's books become The Falcon or some ****. It's unfortunate that Captain America Comics isn't being counted because if they waited, they could have had Captain America #700 along with the Invincible Iron Man #500 and Avengers #600 in a close period of time like they've been doing with their renumbered comics. But oh well, Marvel can now just get away charging like $4.99 for Captain America #50, then next month do the same thing with Captain America #600.
With all of Marvel's books, with the exception of Thor and Hulk, the renumbering math is simple. With the Amazing Spider-Man you just simply add the 441 issue original series and the 58 issue second series. With Fantastic Four, you just simply add the 415 issue original series, the 13 issue Heroes Reborn series, and the 70 issue Heroes Return series. With Avengers you have the 402 issue original series, the 13 issue Heroes Reborn series, and the 84 issue Heroes Return series. With Daredevil you add the 350 issue original series and the 119 issue second series. And finally with Captain America you have the 454 issue Tales of Suspense/Captain America series, the 13 issue Heroes Reborn series, the 50 issue Heroes Return series, the 32 issue fourth series, and the 50 issue Brubaker series.
You can't do that with Hulk and Thor.
CaptainCanada
03-19-2009, 04:54 PM
But with Thor you had the book start as Journey into Mystery and it ended as Journey into Mystery. Yet Journey into Mystery #1-119 count, yet the Journey into Mystery after Thor got retitled back doesn't?
The book called Thor ended at #502; the first run of Journey Into Mystery is part of that #502; the stuff after isn't. It's simple.
Now, the Hulk one that doesn't include the first series is an oversight, though what I think it shows is that the primary goal is to realign the current series with the numbering of its longest-running volume.
TheCorpulent1
03-19-2009, 05:18 PM
The book called Thor also started at #126, so if the first run of Journey Into Mystery is part of it, why wouldn't the second run of Journey Into Mystery be part of it given that it retains the original numbering and still has ties to the Thor character and everything? #502 is a ridiculously arbitrary cutoff point to me.
hippie_hunter
03-19-2009, 08:42 PM
And my Hulk comics are going to be totally messed up now.
With Incredible Hulk/Hercules, it's simple I just keep on going with numerical basis 100, 101, 102..111, 112, 113...120, etc. Then I have Hulk right behind it. With Hulk going to #600 by ignoring the Incredible Hercules, but counting the Incredible Hulk, it completely throws it off, just where the hell do I put the Incredible Hercules now :cmad:
EDIT: Happy 34,000 to me :p
TheCorpulent1
03-20-2009, 08:02 AM
You put The Incredible Hercules aside and just treat it as a weird anomaly that happens to start at some number other than 1. :)
hippie_hunter
03-20-2009, 03:36 PM
You put The Incredible Hercules aside and just treat it as a weird anomaly that happens to start at some number other than 1. :)
That just ticks me off :cmad:
TheCorpulent1
03-20-2009, 03:51 PM
Then I suppose Herc's numbering will just fester in the back of your mind like an infected wound until it drives you crazy and you crack your own head open with a brick. :)
hippie_hunter
03-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Then I suppose Herc's numbering will just fester in the back of your mind like an infected wound until it drives you crazy and you crack your own head open with a brick. :)
Pretty much :o
CaptainCanada
03-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Having seen the cover for Daredevil #500 (http://creative.myspacecdn.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week1109/DAREDEVIL500_COVERSPREAD_FINAL1_low.jpg), one assumes that Cap #600 will have a big Djurdjevic "[lead character], this is your supporting cast!" variant too; seems to be standard for anniversaries these days.
So for this book's, what would you expect? For figures, I'd expect to see:
1. Captain America (Steve Rogers); perhaps also scrawny Steve, or his earlier costume (or both).
2. Bucky, both as Bucky and as Captain America.
3. Sharon/Agent 13
4. Falcon
5. Nick Fury
6. Red Skull
7. Doctor Faustus
8. Arnim Zola
9. Black Widow
10. Doctor Faustus
11. The Invaders (some combination of Namor, Human Torch, Spitfire, and Union Jack)
12. Sin & Crossbones
After that you step outside people featured in the current run:
13. Diamondback
14. Bernie Rosenthal
15. Any others?
TheCorpulent1
03-21-2009, 09:16 AM
Djurdjevic may have just done Thor and Daredevil's #600 covers because he's already associated with them. He's the regular fill-in artist for Thor and does lots of the variant covers, and he's been painting Daredevil's covers for years.
For Cap, if it sticks to that formula, I would expect:
Cap
Bucky
Nick Fury
The Invaders (at least the Torch, Namor, Toro, and Bucky)
The Falcon
Sharon Carter
The Red Skull
Baron Zemo (the WWII-era one)
That's about it. I could see more being on it, but those would be my absolute essential characters.
hippie_hunter
03-21-2009, 03:06 PM
I would think that CaptainCanada's list would happen since all of those characters have been integral to Brubaker's run on Captain America.
cryptic name
04-01-2009, 08:22 PM
i know i'm pretty late to the party, but i just started collecting brubaker's run starting with the "Death Of" trade and the snatching up single back issues, and i just have to say how much i love this book. for as long as i can remember, Cap to me has been an awesome character with a pretty crappy book, so it's just so cool to me to love this comic so much.
Dread
04-01-2009, 08:31 PM
It's never too late to join the party. Welcome aboard. :up:
cryptic name
04-01-2009, 08:35 PM
It's never too late to join the party. Welcome aboard. :up:
thanks, happy to be here :up:
I dont know if any of you have seen the new teasers that came out this week, but just in case you haven't it is a white star over a black background with very faint scales. and at the bottom all it says is July. Obviously they are hinting that something huge will happen with cap this summer. My guess is that it will be a return of steve rogers. Possibly with a new darker costume. Or I might just be crazy.
Dread
04-02-2009, 08:50 PM
I dont know if any of you have seen the new teasers that came out this week, but just in case you haven't it is a white star over a black background with very faint scales. and at the bottom all it says is July. Obviously they are hinting that something huge will happen with cap this summer. My guess is that it will be a return of steve rogers. Possibly with a new darker costume. Or I might just be crazy.
This is it:
http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/captainamerica/teaser_sm.jpg
Hard to tell what it means now.
If anyone can do a return of Steve well, it is Brubaker, but Marvel would be risking trading a 70k seller for a 35k seller after seven months (or whenever Brubaker leaves, whichever comes first). Still, after two years, Steve has been dead longer than Superman was.
CaptainCanada
04-02-2009, 08:51 PM
Could be any number of things: Captain America: White, The Marvels Project, etc.
Kevin
04-02-2009, 08:58 PM
isn't the book going to 600 or 500 in July? That's my guess.
Sawyer
04-02-2009, 09:02 PM
Dammit, leave Steve dead!!! At least for another few years...
CaptainCanada
04-02-2009, 09:07 PM
isn't the book going to 600 or 500 in July? That's my guess.
#600, in June.
The X-Office annually teases the return of Jean Grey, so I wouldn't read too much into this (actually, as I recall, the promos for Avengers/Invaders were a tease for Steve's return, as was the cover for #39 of this series).
Kevin
04-02-2009, 09:14 PM
Seriously, Steve only died 2 years ago or so. It's too early to bring him back.
Obi-Ron
04-02-2009, 10:04 PM
No way, Bucky should have stayed dead.
Paradox1
04-02-2009, 10:27 PM
I like reading about Bucky but dude its Steve freaking Rogers!!!! If you can bring em back then do it as long as its done well.
Anubis
04-02-2009, 11:16 PM
Too soon.
HR-PUFF&STUFF
04-02-2009, 11:25 PM
Seriously, Steve only died 2 years ago or so. It's too early to bring him back.
keep Steve dead as long as Bucky was
Anubis
04-02-2009, 11:26 PM
I don't know about that s**t. :o
HR-PUFF&STUFF
04-02-2009, 11:29 PM
I don't know about that s**t. :ook hows about a even 40 years with the 2 in the bag thats only 38 years to go. hell barry allen was dead for over 20 (what is 22 years) cap can beat that.
Anubis
04-02-2009, 11:33 PM
But then you risk having an entire generation getting used to Buck as Cap, then when you make the switch again, you will piss off a whole bunch of people just like DC is currently doing with this whole Barry Allen Bulls**t. Plus, in 38 years, theres a good chance Bru wont still be writing Cap, or if there will even be comics for that matter.
Four years (around when the movie comes out) is long enough.
HR-PUFF&STUFF
04-02-2009, 11:39 PM
But then you risk having an entire generation getting used to Buck as Cap, then when you make the switch again, you will piss off a whole bunch of people just like DC is currently doing with this whole Barry Allen Bulls**t. Plus, in 38 years, theres a good chance Bru wont still be writing Cap, or if there will even be comics for that matter.
Four years (around when the movie comes out) is long enough. how long what hal jordan dead? cap can beat that he is a super soldier after all.
Anubis
04-02-2009, 11:41 PM
Same thing. The GL fanbase is split down the middle between Hal fans and Kyle fans. Too long and you just end up pissing a whole lotta people off.
HR-PUFF&STUFF
04-02-2009, 11:49 PM
Same thing. The GL fanbase is split down the middle between Hal fans and Kyle fans. Too long and you just end up pissing a whole lotta people off.
as long as they don't end up with what they did to spider-man with the clones.
RockSP
04-03-2009, 12:20 AM
The GL fanbase is split down the middle between Hal fans and Kyle fans.
And then there are those of us who will read books about both. And John. And Guy.
bryanss3
04-03-2009, 12:29 AM
Honestly to bring Steve Rogers back from the dead after all this would cheapen everything thats been done for the past 2 years.It seems like the only 2 ways to bring him back would be resurrecting him or going back in time and bringing him to the future. I can't really see Steve Rogers approving of either of those.
imdaly
04-03-2009, 03:06 AM
This is it:
http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/captainamerica/teaser_sm.jpg
Hard to tell what it means now.
If anyone can do a return of Steve well, it is Brubaker, but Marvel would be risking trading a 70k seller for a 35k seller after seven months (or whenever Brubaker leaves, whichever comes first). Still, after two years, Steve has been dead longer than Superman was.
Bucky's obviously getting a symbiote. :p
bryanss3
04-03-2009, 03:19 AM
Bucky's obviously getting a symbiote. :p
hahahahaha. I really wish they'd clarify what certain ads are just the slightest. I hope its Captain America White. my brother has been looking forward to it since the summer. he got the zero issue for it and then it just never came out. he's been b****ing ever since.
chris moore
04-03-2009, 03:51 AM
Is it not to do with the Dark Reign cover we saw a month or so ago? Maybe defeat at the hands of Osborn. Maybe blackmail to have Bucky do something for them? Maybe related to Namor taking Cap's real coffin into the ocean, his now being in the dark cabal and Osborn using that somehow.
Abstract
04-03-2009, 03:58 AM
This is it:
http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/captainamerica/teaser_sm.jpg
Hard to tell what it means now.
If anyone can do a return of Steve well, it is Brubaker, but Marvel would be risking trading a 70k seller for a 35k seller after seven months (or whenever Brubaker leaves, whichever comes first). Still, after two years, Steve has been dead longer than Superman was.
Steve has been dead two years already? Holy crap that went fast.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 08:13 AM
I'm completely ready for Steve to come back. Bucky's performed admirably in the role, which I always suspected was only a means to his redemption, but Steve will always be Cap to me.
moraldeficiency
04-03-2009, 08:21 AM
Now where is that gonna leave bucky though? Can't be cap, can't be winter soldier and darkwing duck is already taken as well...
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 08:26 AM
He could just go back to his Winter Soldier costume and call himself "Bucky." Ditch the mask and be a publicly recognized American hero again.
moraldeficiency
04-03-2009, 08:31 AM
I don't know about a grown man going by bucky. I think he'll need something new.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 08:34 AM
Buckworth Buckington, then.
moraldeficiency
04-03-2009, 08:36 AM
haha, he should have a monocle and a walking stick if that's the case.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 08:39 AM
Um... what would be a good counterpoint to his evil, Commie codename? The Summer Seaman? The Autumn Airman? The Spring Chicken?
moraldeficiency
04-03-2009, 08:41 AM
summer hippie. He could shoot flowers instead of bullets.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 08:43 AM
Then, two issues later: "The Death of the Guy who Used To Be Captain America."
Kevin
04-03-2009, 10:00 AM
I'd call him the American Solder. Lame though.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:02 AM
Patriot-Man! The Soldier! The One-Armed Bandit!
Personally, I think Bucky would be good as Nomad. He could make himself feel better for killing Jack Monroe way back when. But that's another Cap-derivative name, and I'd prefer he had his own identity.
RockSP
04-03-2009, 10:04 AM
Captain America, Jr.
Mr. Green
04-03-2009, 10:20 AM
He should just keep calling himself Winter Soldier if Steve returns. That's the coolest name and it's not like it's inherently commie. Or another identity altogether?
If they bring him back though it should be as a bad guy, at least for a while. He could be brought back from the dead but more as a cyborg or something, controlled by some villain.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:25 AM
That would probably push me toward dropping the comic altogether, I'd hate it so much. Brubaker did that already. That would be the biggest rehash ever.
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 10:26 AM
He should just keep calling himself Winter Soldier if Steve returns. That's the coolest name and it's not like it's inherently commie. Or another identity altogether?
If they bring him back though it should be as a bad guy, at least for a while. He could be brought back from the dead but more as a cyborg or something, controlled by some villain.he can't go back to being the winter soldier full time, he hates that part of himself...is anyone going by nomad right now? i could see buck being a pretty badass nomad
Kevin
04-03-2009, 10:27 AM
He should just keep calling himself Winter Soldier if Steve returns. That's the coolest name and it's not like it's inherently commie. Or another identity altogether?
If they bring him back though it should be as a bad guy, at least for a while. He could be brought back from the dead but more as a cyborg or something, controlled by some villain.
What is wrong with you?
moraldeficiency
04-03-2009, 10:28 AM
I'm currently liking "the one-armed bandit" out of our list of names.
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:29 AM
he can't go back to being the winter soldier full time, he hates that part of himself...is anyone going by nomad right now? i could see buck being a pretty badass nomad
No. Bucky killed the previous Nomad, Jack Monroe, when he was still the Winter Soldier, so taking up the name Nomad would have a certain emotional resonance. Given that the government is rife with corruption due to Dark Reign, the literal meaning and original intent of the name--a man without a country--works, too. I'd be cool with him taking up that identity, even if it is still derivative of Steve, who originally used it.
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 10:33 AM
No. Bucky killed the previous Nomad, Jack Monroe, when he was still the Winter Soldier, so taking up the name Nomad would have a certain emotional resonance. Given that the government is rife with corruption due to Dark Reign, the literal meaning and original intent of the name--a man without a country--works, too. I'd be cool with him taking up that identity, even if it is still derivative of Steve, who originally used it.
haha, i'd forgotten about jack...has it been that long? the winter soldier special where he visits jack's grave was great. i've always kinda considered nomad to be like the bucky version of nightwing anyway
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:35 AM
Yeah, he was the Bucky of the '50s (alongside the Grand Director, who's also back). I liked him as Nomad, but I didn't read much with him.
Just as long as Bucky doesn't adopt the big N belt buckle. ;)
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 10:39 AM
Yeah, he was the Bucky of the '50s (alongside the Grand Director, who's also back). I liked him as Nomad, but I didn't read much with him.
Just as long as Bucky doesn't adopt the big N belt buckle. ;)
hahahahaha, oh there are many costume elements of nomad i hope bucky steers clear of...
i guess i would like him in something closer to his winter soldier outfit, but maybe a bit more streamlined and with 2 sleeves:oldrazz:
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:42 AM
Nah, I like the exposed cyber-arm. Maybe they could just stick with his current Winter Soldier costume, ditch the mask, and give him a bit of the old color scheme. Dark blue top and pants instead of jet-black, with red boots and gloves.
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Nah, I like the exposed cyber-arm. Maybe they could just stick with his current Winter Soldier costume, ditch the mask, and give him a bit of the old color scheme. Dark blue top and pants instead of jet-black, with red boots and gloves.
i hate cyber arms on pretty much everyone who isn't cable. i think that color scheme couls work, but maybe tone down the red a bit like ultimate cap's ww2 gloves
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:52 AM
That'd be cool. I wouldn't really mind covering up the cyber arm, since it'd make tactical sense and the public probably wouldn't want to know that Bucky's missing an arm anymore than they'd want to know Captain America is missing an arm. Keep the white star on the shoulder, though. Maybe put one on his biological shoulder, too.
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 10:54 AM
That'd be cool. I wouldn't really mind covering up the cyber arm, since it'd make tactical sense and the public probably wouldn't want to know that Bucky's missing an arm anymore than they'd want to know Captain America is missing an arm. Keep the white star on the shoulder, though. Maybe put one on his biological shoulder, too.
i thought about that, but doesn't that kinda tie him down to the cap jr image and go against the whole idea behind calling himself nomad?
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 10:59 AM
I suppose. All right, switch the stars, gloves, and boots to yellow instead.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/nomad1.jpg
;)
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 11:01 AM
I suppose. All right, switch the stars, gloves, and boots to yellow instead.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/nomad1.jpg
;)
hahhahaha, i dunno, cyclops pulls off the dark blue with yellow highlights look pretty well:oldrazz:
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 11:06 AM
Maybe they should just leave him in his Winter Soldier outfit. The only other thing I can think of is basically to steal Elijah Bradley's first Patriot costume.
bryanss3
04-03-2009, 12:14 PM
I think he should just stay Captain America cause if he doesn't I'm going to feel robbed from this entire run.
Colossal Spoons
04-03-2009, 01:25 PM
I'm completely ready for Steve to come back. Bucky's performed admirably in the role, which I always suspected was only a means to his redemption, but Steve will always be Cap to me.
Co-sign on that :up:
Sparta*
04-03-2009, 01:32 PM
If Steve comes back ill actually accept the whole "death of captain america" thing, and ill have to go back and get all the tpb's!
lixdexia
04-03-2009, 01:41 PM
If Steve comes back ill actually accept the whole "death of captain america" thing, and ill have to go back and get all the tpb's!
you're missing out on the best cap book in awhile until then
TheCorpulent1
04-03-2009, 01:43 PM
I think he should just stay Captain America cause if he doesn't I'm going to feel robbed from this entire run.
It depends on how you view the run, really. I've been looking at this run as one giant mega-arc that could reasonably be called "The Life, Death, Rebirth, and Redemption of Bucky Barnes." From day one, Brubaker's been writing Bucky's story. Initially, it was through the eyes of Cap and it was played as a mystery because neither Cap nor we knew Bucky was back. But then Bucky was revealed and Cap made it his mission to find out what was wrong with him and fix it, which he did shortly before he died. At that point, Bucky's perspective takes over and we're currently reading about his redemption via the inheritance of the Captain America identity. The natural conclusion is that Bucky finally feels he's made good, paid for his past sins, and is free to be his own man again. He could continue as Cap, but I think it'd be more satisfying as a narrative if Bucky finds his own identity. Plus, what better way to cap off his redemption than by having Steve actually come back and tell him that he did good and wore the shield with honor while he was away?
RockSP
04-03-2009, 03:21 PM
His new name should be Captain America II The Sequel. Then he and Steve can go to Mojoworld and have all kinds of fun.
Dread
04-07-2009, 08:11 PM
Newsarama is holding a Poll as to whether fans want Steve Rogers back yet:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/040907-Cap-Return-Poll.html
The results (after I voted):
*Yes! It’s time. Bring Steve Rogers back as Captain America - the sooner the better! 19% (775 votes)
*No! Bucky as Cap forever! Steve Rogers, your time has come and gone. Dead means dead. 20% (827 votes)
*Bring Steve back, but not as Captain America. 5% (211 votes)
*Bring Steve back as Cap, but keep Bucky – co-Captains of America. 7% (279 votes)
*I want Steve back, but I’m good for now. Let’s talk about this ‘Bring Steve Back’ again in 2011 or later down the road. 49% (1988 votes)
Well over 2,000 people voted to either keep Bucky as Cap forever or to at least keep Steve dead until 2011. The split between "Bring Back Steve!" and "Bucky Forever" was very close, barely 100 votes apart so far. It is worth noting that according to Newsarama, almost as many people want to keep Bucky where he is either forever or the next three years than read BIG HERO 6 #5. :p
Commercially, Bucky is selling at twice the level that Steve's book was under Brubaker until CIVIL WAR started, even nearly two years later. Marvel has to see how the failure to let go of the past in DC has crippled their once hot FLASH franchise and should learn to not fix what isn't broke. CAPTAIN AMERICAN right now is far from broke.
TheCorpulent1
04-08-2009, 07:34 AM
Flash failed because it tried to rush into the future with shoddy creators, actually. Wally's book was chugging along fine until they got rid of him under murky circumstances in Infinite Crisis and aged Bart Allen up to take over as the Flash after he'd just barely become Kid Flash a couple years earlier.
kguillou
04-08-2009, 10:06 AM
I think Bucky Cap has so much more potential to explore, its waaay too soon to resurrect Steve. Besides, his death will have meant nothing if they bring him back too soon. I hate to say it but i'd be real disappointed if they brought steve back now, maybe in 2011 but not now. Marvel needs to learn to stop being so trigger happy and just let the freakin status quo BE a status quo for while instead of constantly changing it. Besides it seems like the general consensus is that people like the new Cap alot.
SuGarRush
04-08-2009, 12:42 PM
I think Bucky Cap has so much more potential to explore, its waaay too soon to resurrect Steve. Besides, his death will have meant nothing if they bring him back too soon. I hate to say it but i'd be real disappointed if they brought steve back now, maybe in 2011 but not now. Marvel needs to learn to stop being so trigger happy and just let the freakin status quo BE a status quo for while instead of constantly changing it. Besides it seems like the general consensus is that people like the new Cap alot.
Some people do like him. Of course, there are other people like me who canceled Avengers and Captain America once Steve was murdered.
Steve Rogers IS Captain America. It'd be like Replacing Superman or Batman or Spider-Man. (I dropped Batman by the way, as soon as Bruce returns I'll jump back on)
These people MAKE the hero, it's not the costume. This isn't Green Lantern, this isn't the Flash. Putting someone new in the costume just puts a blight on the name. It can never replace the REAL hero.
I'm sure the newer, "hipper" Captain Bucky is great for some people. I've flipped through some issues. From the change of adding black to his costume, him carrying a gun, to the edgier, rougher feel, these are all traits I'd much rather see in Wolverine or Deadpool then in the paragon of Liberty and Justice.
Marvel has enough morally ambiguous and boring gritty heroes, how about keeping the Real heroes that it has?
I for one would LOVE for them to bring Steve back. And like another poster said, I might even buy the trades of his death, since I know it was just done for his return.
TheCorpulent1
04-08-2009, 01:45 PM
I think if you were actually reading the story Brubaker, Epting, et al. are crafting with Bucky, you'd have a different opinion. Bucky's got a morally ambiguous past but the man himself, in the present, is not morally ambiguous at all. He's a little rougher around the edges than Steve, but that's only because being Captian America is his redemption. It's a process. He's struggling to live up to Steve's example knowing full well that he's not naturally as pure or morally upstanding a man as Steve was, but he's not exactly the Punisher in Cap's clothing or anything. Ignore the darker costume (which I've never been a fan of either, but that's Alex Ross' fault) and the gun (which he hasn't killed anyone with and only rarely uses to even wound anymore), and what you're left with is a vulnerable and very human man who's been through hell and is trying to make up for it by filling the shoes of the best friend and most admired mentor he ever had. When you stop to think of Bucky's situation, it's actually rather beautiful, even (or especially) to a cynic like me.
Like I've always said, Bucky as Cap could only ever be temporary. Captain America is a means to an end for Bucky's character arc. Steve will be back. 'Til then, enjoy the ride. It's a good one.
roach
04-08-2009, 04:07 PM
quick solve for this is Marvel come out with a Steve Rogers Captain America book based in WW2.
lixdexia
04-08-2009, 04:39 PM
quick solve for this is Marvel come out with a Steve Rogers Captain America book based in WW2.
i thought they were trying that with that new one they put out a couple of weeks ago?
roach
04-08-2009, 04:53 PM
sorry im out the comicbook loop
Dread
04-08-2009, 08:24 PM
Flash failed because it tried to rush into the future with shoddy creators, actually. Wally's book was chugging along fine until they got rid of him under murky circumstances in Infinite Crisis and aged Bart Allen up to take over as the Flash after he'd just barely become Kid Flash a couple years earlier.
Exactly; fixing what wasn't broke. I meant what I said.
I think Bucky Cap has so much more potential to explore, its waaay too soon to resurrect Steve. Besides, his death will have meant nothing if they bring him back too soon. I hate to say it but i'd be real disappointed if they brought steve back now, maybe in 2011 but not now. Marvel needs to learn to stop being so trigger happy and just let the freakin status quo BE a status quo for while instead of constantly changing it. Besides it seems like the general consensus is that people like the new Cap alot.
Agreed. To play Devil's Advocate, keeping Steve Rogers dead for what looks to be perhaps at least 2 full years, if not a little longer, is a longer stint that some status quo shifts for major characters in the past at Marvel or DC. "Spider-Man Unmasked" only lasted about a year. Superman's death wore off after a year.
I do agree that Marvel has got to put nostalgia aside and realize that CAPTAIN AMERICA is selling and getting reviewed better than it has in years and if Brubaker himself is not 100% gung ho with reviving Rogers, they need to put the brakes on this one. Of course, it could be akin to Jean Grey; teasing a revival about every other year, but it being a slight of hand. Beyond some momentary lapses, Grey has been dead longer than many expected. Unless you count Hope in CABLE, and who does?
The wind is at Bucky's back and after 2 years, not only has this story not run it's course, it has many years worth of potential. The Big Two produce so few genuinely good, and commercially successful, transfers of power or shifts to status quo, that undoing one of the few great ones that actually sells greatly seems to be short sighted at best.
kguillou
04-08-2009, 08:59 PM
I agree Dread and for once i think Marvel agrees too. I could be wrong of course, but i think marvel just likes to tease us with Steve's return, i dont think they have any intention of bringing him back any time soon. I remember a year or so ago, marvel released promo pics of Steve Rogers drawn by Alex Ross with the words "The Return" printed on them and everybody was like " Damn! they're bringing Steve back already?!". But of course it ended up just being a promo for the Avengers/Invaders mini-series. Also, I remember at a recent convention, someone asked Quesada when they were going to bring Steve back and Quesada replied "Honestly, who actually wants Steve back?".
Anyway the point is Marvel is going to tease and tease and milk Steve's death for all its worth but i highyl doubt they're bringing him back any time soon.
TheCorpulent1
04-09-2009, 09:49 AM
Well, I want Steve back. But Bucky's great for the time being.
CaptainCanada
04-09-2009, 03:43 PM
Preview of #49 (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2371&disp=table).
That's some really great art from Ross.
That's some fairly standard psychedelic imagery, but it stands out in this series.
TheCorpulent1
04-09-2009, 03:56 PM
Is anybody else still creeped out when they remind you that Sharon Carter's ancient aunt f***ed Steve, too?
Good preview. I'm looking forward to reconnecting with Sharon and hopefully Sam. They've taken a bit too much of a backseat since Bucky took over as Cap.
CaptainCanada
04-09-2009, 04:27 PM
"Farewell, sweet Margaret. Make sure your brother picks a hot wife."
Dread
04-11-2009, 02:32 AM
Is anybody else still creeped out when they remind you that Sharon Carter's ancient aunt f***ed Steve, too?
Not as creeped out by the awkward romantic overtones between Steve Rogers and the daughter of his WWII fiance in the 1990 direct-to-video movie abomination. :o
So we're getting Cap #600 right after #50 right?
imdaly
04-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Yes. We're getting 3 super-sized issues in a row. :)
Dread
04-11-2009, 04:27 PM
And at $3.99 a pop, at least!
Cynicism aside, at least CAPTAIN AMERICA is always worth the investment. :up:
kguillou
04-11-2009, 05:54 PM
Wait we're getting three in a row? I know we're gettin #50 and #600 but whats the third?
imdaly
04-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Wait we're getting three in a row? I know we're gettin #50 and #600 but whats the third?
Wellllll if it's 3 in a row, and the first two are #50 and #600...I'm gonna assume it's #601. ;) :p
http://www.newsarama.com/common/media/video/player.php?aid=27186 :) :up:
CaptainCanada
04-11-2009, 08:36 PM
Ah, the Colan thing is finally getting released. Brubaker wrote that back in, like, 2005 or 2006, I believe.
Guice has been channeling some serious Kirby/Steranko with alot of his figures in Cap.
I noticed it back in the riot issues,and again on the final page of the current issue with Cap saluting.
Captain Useless
04-17-2009, 11:04 AM
God, I love Brubaker.
Dread
04-18-2009, 04:27 PM
God, I love Brubaker.
Indeed.
Well, for me at least, on CAPTAIN AMERICA. His X-MEN: DEADLY GENESIS wasn't very good. That was four years ago, though.
Link to my review of issue #49, with spoilers:
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16765427&postcount=2
Cap and DD have been stellar books for god knows how long.
I b****ed about the Mr. Fear arc at the time,but even though parts came off as overdramatic and forced,it did a great job of showing just how far Matt is willing to go to protect those he loves and why Daredevil is one of the most badass heroes to grace the comic book page.
In other Cap news,there's a rumor going around that Brubaker,Hitch and Guice are working on a secret mini that will bring Steve Rogers back.
http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showpost.php?p=5927572&postcount=18
EDIT: Found Hitch's comment
I too have a secret project coming out in summer; about the same time as Ultimate Avengers. I have the awesome Butch Guice inking me on it too; we'd both loved each others work and Joey Q suggested we try something over dinner in SDCC so here we are. This should be fun and a real change of project for both of us. Im stretching a lot of new muscles on this one and it feels like my best work in a while. More on tis later in the year. For now, nada.
It's gonna be big too."
louiebling$
04-19-2009, 02:59 AM
awe man.. i wanted bucky to have more time as Cap :csad:
TheCorpulent1
04-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Why is that secret project considered to be a Cap thing?
CaptainCanada
04-19-2009, 12:39 PM
There's a guy posting on a couple of sites (CBR among them) that it's titled "Reborn"; he offers no particular proof, just saying to wait for Tuesday.
If true, I'll be interested to see Hitch working with someone other than Millar for the first time in a while.
Heh, I'd almost forgotten about solicitations coming up.
Paradox1
04-19-2009, 01:36 PM
So the guy talking to Aunt Peggy in 49 wasn't Steve?
RockSP
04-19-2009, 01:49 PM
^Did you actually read the comic?:o It was Bad Cap. Steve's dead.
Paradox1
04-19-2009, 02:24 PM
i actually thought Steve lost his memory and was trying to get it back for a moment.Man I thought Bucky killed that guy a long time ago.
Paradox1
04-19-2009, 02:50 PM
So if Sharon knows bad cap is around. Then what was Sharon's dream about cause it looks Red Skull was planning something terrible to discredit Steve in some way.
TheCorpulent1
04-19-2009, 03:00 PM
I have a feeling whatever Red Skull was doing with the time platform is connected to Sharon's miscarried baby. Probably something really f***ed up like pulling the full-grown offspring from some alternate future where he survived so the Skull could inhabit his body and make Steve and Sharon think twice whenever they fight him from now on.
^Did you actually read the comic?:o It was Bad Cap. Steve's dead.
He's still the Grand Director to me. Although they should really reveal his name at some point.
Paradox1
04-19-2009, 03:06 PM
That could be it since they mentioned it in the issue.Or maybe the Red Skull just misses Steve like the Joker would miss Batman.
Dread
04-19-2009, 03:53 PM
Yeah, the "Steve Rogers" in CA #49 was the Grand Director. You could tell from the scar. And the fact that he escaped at the end of the Skull arc. And wasn't dead. I'm glad he is back, since he tied into Dr. Faustus well way back. I am curious what Brubaker would do with Protocide.
I was guessing that Red Skull wanted to speed-grow Sharon's fetus with his time window for quite a while, although he missed that chance at being in a second Rogers body (remember, before he was shot in CA #1, technically Red Skull was in a cloned body of Captain America's and thus was on par with him physically), thus winding up in one of Zola's spares.
Union Jack
04-20-2009, 03:26 PM
i hope that bucky america takes care of bad cap..
i'd like to see maybe more invaders inclusion..i like the namor and torch thing...maybe a bit of union jack too...i liked those issues with cap and uj..
Abstract
04-21-2009, 11:00 PM
I'm having trouble getting into Bucky as Cap. Still reading though.
Dread
04-21-2009, 11:02 PM
i hope that bucky america takes care of bad cap..
i'd like to see maybe more invaders inclusion..i like the namor and torch thing...maybe a bit of union jack too...i liked those issues with cap and uj..
Indeed. Bucky vs. Grand Director would be cool.
I agree that Brubaker, for his whole run really, has done well with the Invaders when he's written various members of them. They need that cross of superheroism and military-esque espionage, and Brubaker handles that very well.
kguillou
04-21-2009, 11:25 PM
So...it seems pretty obvious that Reborn is the return of Steve, i mean what else could it possibly be? Brubaker's writing it and Hitch is drawing it, not to mention Alex ross is doing a cover for it. Marvel wouldnt put its best talent on a project unless it was BIG. I dont like to prejudge but it has to be Steve, who else could be "Reborn"? sigh....i cant help but be disappointed.
Anubis
04-21-2009, 11:27 PM
I doubt it. It'll probably end up being just like "The Return" which gave us a Skrull Capn' Marv and a lame ass Sentry story.
Watchman
04-21-2009, 11:31 PM
While I love Bucky as Cap I would be doing back flips if Steve comes back.
Vanguard07
04-21-2009, 11:56 PM
It's not Cap. It's Uncle Ben.
Aesop Rocks
04-22-2009, 12:00 AM
Wisful thinking: Bucky fights Bad Cap, loses. Steve destroys Bad Cap.
Dread
04-22-2009, 01:23 AM
So...it seems pretty obvious that Reborn is the return of Steve, i mean what else could it possibly be? Brubaker's writing it and Hitch is drawing it, not to mention Alex ross is doing a cover for it. Marvel wouldnt put its best talent on a project unless it was BIG. I dont like to prejudge but it has to be Steve, who else could be "Reborn"? sigh....i cant help but be disappointed.
It could be Jean Grey.
Hey, Brubaker did write X-Men stuff for a few years. :p
I'm with Anubis on this; Marvel has pulled "false positives" before, so until we get clear solicts and some issues read, I'm reserving judgment.
TheCorpulent1
04-22-2009, 09:58 AM
So...it seems pretty obvious that Reborn is the return of Steve, i mean what else could it possibly be? Brubaker's writing it and Hitch is drawing it, not to mention Alex ross is doing a cover for it. Marvel wouldnt put its best talent on a project unless it was BIG. I dont like to prejudge but it has to be Steve, who else could be "Reborn"? sigh....i cant help but be disappointed.
I doubt it. It'll probably end up being just like "The Return" which gave us a Skrull Capn' Marv and a lame ass Sentry story.
Exactly. They also had their best(-selling) talent on Thor's 'return' in Civil War, but that didn't turn out quite as expected either.
CaptainCanada
04-22-2009, 04:39 PM
Two (http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.7706.Cap_Week_Q%26A~colon~_Ed_Brubake r_Pt~dot~_1) interviews (http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.7722.Cap_Week_Q%26A~colon~_Ed_Brubake r_Pt~dot~_2) with Brubaker at Marvel.com as part of "Captain America Week", discussing where the book will be going in the next little while.
Apparently, the story arc beginning in #602 will be "Two Americas", dealing with Evil 50s Cap. The idea of contrasting the national mood during the "Great Recession" with two guys who grew up in the 30s is a good one.
Dread
04-22-2009, 07:36 PM
Two (http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.7706.Cap_Week_Q%26A~colon~_Ed_Brubake r_Pt~dot~_1) interviews (http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.7722.Cap_Week_Q%26A~colon~_Ed_Brubake r_Pt~dot~_2) with Brubaker at Marvel.com as part of "Captain America Week", discussing where the book will be going in the next little while.
Apparently, the story arc beginning in #602 will be "Two Americas", dealing with Evil 50s Cap. The idea of contrasting the national mood during the "Great Recession" with two guys who grew up in the 30s is a good one.
Brubaker's been good with being able to tap stuff that is happening in the world without either pandering or making one-sided political rants, like Mark Millar or other writers do. A lot of that stuff toward the end of the Lukin arc did that. It sounds like an interesting idea.
I mean, Grand Director looks EXACTLY like Steve Rogers, it would make sense for him to use that as his advantage. Technically the nation should be confused at the idea of at least two Captain America's being seen running about lately.
I'm caught up to issue 45 and man it is STILL one of the top books Marvel is putting out. I can't get enough of it and am glad to know that Ed's said that Marvel will have to pry this book out of his cold dead hands before he gives it up.
Dread
04-23-2009, 02:04 AM
I'm caught up to issue 45 and man it is STILL one of the top books Marvel is putting out. I can't get enough of it and am glad to know that Ed's said that Marvel will have to pry this book out of his cold dead hands before he gives it up.
Well, hopefully it won't come to THAT for quite a long while. But, yeah, it is good that after 50 issues Brubaker is showing no signs of leaving the franchise. I've said it a few times, but it is worth repeating; if JMS could stick on ASM for about 7 (long) years, then hopefully Brubaker can try to stick around Cap almost that long. Issue #60 (or whatever the numbering will be by then) would be five years, after all.
Except unlike JMS on Spider-Man, Brubaker knocks it out of the park every issue and dosen't over stay his welcome by about 5 and a half years :woot:
Keyser Soze
04-27-2009, 06:56 PM
I tried Captain America for 6 issues, from #43 to #48. While I found it to be consistently well-written, in that time it never quite grabbed me enough to make it a must-read, or make me particularly look forward to the next issue. So I decided to drop it, not picking up #49. But looking at how we're getting #50, then #600, I feel like I picked the wrong time to drop the book, and should give it another go. Seems only fair, since people have told me I picked arguably the weakest stretch of issues in the book's near 5 year history to try jumping on.
As for the comments about the possibility of Steve Rogers' return, as much as I love Bucky Barnes - that character was interesting enough for me to pick up Captain America for several months, something I was never compelled to do with Steve Rogers in the title role - it makes sense for Steve Rogers to return in the near future. In a lot of ways, the death of Steve Rogers played a big role in setting the stage for Dark Reign. Bringing him back could end up playing a crucial part in ending it.
Dread
04-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Except unlike JMS on Spider-Man, Brubaker knocks it out of the park every issue and dosen't over stay his welcome by about 5 and a half years :woot:
Hell, Brubaker hasn't even been on the book for five years yet. Heck, he's just surpassed year four. ;)
Dread
05-11-2009, 08:30 PM
CBR has this image for CAPTAIN AMERICA #600 (which ships in June):
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21156
Hmm...
Spider-ManHero12
05-11-2009, 09:01 PM
CBR has this image for CAPTAIN AMERICA #600 (which ships in June):
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21156
Hmm... Hmm, interesting indeed. Can't wait!
Kevin
05-11-2009, 11:27 PM
CBR has this image for CAPTAIN AMERICA #600 (which ships in June):
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21156
Hmm...
That's right, By the end of that mini she came to 616. (yeah, I said it.) Forgot about her.
Anubis
05-12-2009, 12:48 AM
Should be awesome.
Dread
05-12-2009, 02:30 AM
That's right, By the end of that mini she came to 616. (yeah, I said it.) Forgot about her.
She did? What mini?
I was never a fan of Heroes Reborn, but if that alternate dimensional Bucky is still roaming about, it would make sense to use her. Brubaker does his research. :up:
Gives me hope he'll use Protocide one way. He'd make a good bad guy.
TheCorpulent1
05-12-2009, 08:53 AM
I forgot she was roaming around the 616 universe, too. Should be interesting to see what Brubaker does with her. I hope she teams up with Bucky. It's been far too long since Cap had a sidekick.
Dread
05-12-2009, 05:44 PM
To be fair, Black Widow has usually been backing him up in missions, so it is akin to having a partner. Before Steve's death, the Falcon was hanging around again, too. But, yeah, it should be interesting. Brubaker doesn't usually play with alternate universe people.
Dread
05-13-2009, 08:36 PM
Preview of CAPTAIN AMERICA #50 from CBR, for those who didn't see it. If this is a repost, I apologize.
http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2592&disp=table
Keyser Soze
05-22-2009, 03:30 PM
I picked up Captain America #50, and really enjoyed it. The main story was a great exploration of Bucky's character, and I liked the potted summary of the history of Captain America in the back-up. Between reading this, and picking up The Death of Captain America: The Death of the Dream for my Comic Book Club column on Project Fanboy, I'd say I've finally been won over to the joys of Captain America.
So now I'm wanting to play catch up on the graphic novels collecting Brubaker's run thus far. Am I correct in thinking these are the graphic novels, up to and including the Death of Captain America saga?
Winter Soldier Volume 1
Winter Soldier Volume 2
Red Menace Volume 1
Red Menace Volume 2
Civil War: Captain America
The Death of Captain America: Death of the Dream
The Death of Captain America: The Burden of Dreams
The Death of Captain America: The Man Who Bought America
TheCorpulent1
05-22-2009, 04:00 PM
You could just get the Captain America Omnibus, which covers everything up to Steve's death.
Keyser Soze
05-22-2009, 04:47 PM
You could just get the Captain America Omnibus, which covers everything up to Steve's death.
Wow, I never knew about this. Looking it up on Amazon now, I think I'll buy it. Thanks. :yay:
TheCorpulent1
05-22-2009, 05:49 PM
No problem. I bought it even though I already had all the issues. It's as convenient and pretty a way to refresh your memory as it is to get caught up in the first place. :up:
Dread
05-22-2009, 06:08 PM
Yeah, the Omnibus is the way to go. It covers the first 25 issues of Brubaker's CAPTAIN AMERICA run as well as I think two of the one-shot's or annuals in that time. It's basically like 2-3 trades in one.
A second Omnibus is inevitable, but a few trades should cover the rest. Worth it.
A link to my review of issue #50, with spoilers:
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16955697&postcount=48
The Mighty Thor
05-26-2009, 11:59 AM
Just got around to reading #50 and enjoyed it. It wasn't particularly momentous or earth-shattering, but I'm glad; Brubaker's run has thrived on these kind of lower key, character-driven stories. It's a testament to how well he's written this that after 25 issues, I'm still happy with Bucky as the lead. Although I miss Steve in other areas of the Marvel Universe (mainly the Avengers), the Captain America title is definitely not faltering without him.
Dread
05-26-2009, 06:25 PM
Well said.
louiebling$
05-26-2009, 07:30 PM
I just Read #50 and i thought it was a great read... Cap is still my Favorite book i collect and every book leaves me content. i cant wait to see what he does with #600 :up:
Dread
05-26-2009, 07:33 PM
http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2687&disp=table
Preview for issue #600.
louiebling$
05-26-2009, 10:31 PM
Wow that looks great :up: I cant wait :D
Dread
05-26-2009, 10:36 PM
Some posters at Newsarama were griping about how the preview art seems to show virtually everyone loosely connected to the Captain America legacy, even the Heroes Reborn Bucky from Counter-Earth, but no Josiah X. I am curious.
TheCorpulent1
05-27-2009, 08:45 AM
None of the Bradleys except Patriot are there. I can understand them leaving Isaiah and Josiah out, though. Isaiah's not active anymore and Josiah hasn't been seen since the end of The Crew, so they're not really relevant at this point. Patriot's still active with the Young Avengers and the Heroes Reborn Bucky seems to be heading for supporting cast status in the series.
Keyser Soze
05-29-2009, 03:26 AM
Unprecedented Early Release for “Captain America” #600
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21386
Theories about the return of Steve Rogers as Captain America have been brewing ever since his death in “Captain America” #25, but the speculation has grown to a fever pitch following the release of two teaser images that CBR brought you first, exclusively.
On April 2nd, CBR received this teaser image, which appeared to suggest “Captain America” was a title to watch in July.
On May 11th, CBR received another teaser image, featuring the title “Girl Without A World” and a reference to “Captain America” #600.
While what exactly is happening isn’t known yet, CBR News learned late Thursday that Marvel is going to support the release of “Captain America” #600 in a surprising way.
Today on the Diamond Comics Retailer Services Web site, retailers were informed via a news bulletin that they could contact their Diamond Customer Service Representative in order to receive and sell “Captain America” #600 on Monday, June 15th. This is an unprecedented move, as new comics have been traditionally only been sold on Wednesdays for over a decade, barring holiday shipping schedules.
The move to a Monday on sale date leads one to speculate that a major announcement regarding future storylines is coming on June 15th.
Adding to that is news that Marvel is rushing a second printing of “Captain America” #50. The final order cut off date for retailers to submit their orders is June 1st, with a Wednesday June 10th on sale date. Marvel hasn’t rushed a book back to print in that tight of a time frame since the President Obama related “Amazing Spider-Man” issues blew up in the mainstream press.
For more on “Captain America” #600, check out this preview.
TheCorpulent1
05-29-2009, 09:09 AM
Whoa. That's sort of weird...
I don't think Steve's coming back in #600. I think the HR Bucky will just join the cast and become Bucky-Cap's sidekick. Which is awesome.
Keyser Soze
05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
Whoa. That's sort of weird...
I don't think Steve's coming back in #600. I think the HR Bucky will just join the cast and become Bucky-Cap's sidekick. Which is awesome.
I don't think Steve Rogers is coming back either. Come on, "Reborn"? It is a very obvious attempt to play on fan expectation. I think it is likely to be a swerve, and will involve Evil Captain America from the 1950s.
TheCorpulent1
05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
Bad Cap's not really bad, though. Just confused.
CaptainCanada
05-29-2009, 02:52 PM
50s Cap vs. Bucky is the focus of the next arc in the main title, beginning #602.
TheCorpulent1
05-29-2009, 02:53 PM
I guess Bad Cap will find his inner badness, then.
RockSP
05-29-2009, 03:15 PM
I'd say he found it a while ago, when he was the Grand Director.
TheCorpulent1
05-29-2009, 03:41 PM
And then he lost it when he came back. He didn't really do anything too bad recently. He seemed more confused than anything else.
RockSP
05-29-2009, 03:45 PM
Once you go Grand Director, you don't go back. Or something.
TheCorpulent1
05-29-2009, 04:00 PM
Are you implying that the Grand Director has a Grand Endowment?
Keyser Soze
05-29-2009, 04:02 PM
Preview of Young Allies Comics 70th Anniversary Special:
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?gid=1075
RockSP
05-29-2009, 04:03 PM
Are you implying that the Grand Director has a Grand Endowment?
...No. Sicko.
Keyser Soze
05-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Out of curiosity, who read Captain America: White #0? Any good? And does anyone know when the series proper is due for release?
TheCorpulent1
05-29-2009, 04:59 PM
Preview of Young Allies Comics 70th Anniversary Special:
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?gid=1075
I love the clean, simple, retro art on these. I think some modern art suffers from an overabundance of detail.
Dread
05-29-2009, 06:51 PM
Some posters at THE BEAT sometimes claim the MARVEL ADVENTURES books are harder for kids to follow than "old style" art books because of modern tendencies. It is true that some detail isn't needed.
It is wiggy that CA #600 is shipping early. Some of the August solicts hinted that "REBIRTH" isn't about Steve at all. The Heroes Reborn Bucky is interesting although I thought she was still on Counter-Earth. Oh, well. Brubaker will make it work, even if alternate reality characters don't usually jive with his espionage stuff. Nothing is more unrealistic then an "alternate reality". It is one of those things, like time travel, that are basically fantasy in science fiction (time is a human construct really). Still, it could be interesting.
Keyser Soze
06-01-2009, 05:54 PM
I ordered the Captain America Omnibus from Amazon, but while I'm waiting for it to arrive, I decided to read The Death of Captain America - The Burden of Dreams. I really loved it. So much, just great stuff here, throughout. It was a nice sunny day outside, and so I just devoured the whole graphic novel in one sitting. Bucky is an excellent character, but more and more I'm starting to get engrossed in the whole ensemble, heroes and villains alike.
The first Death of Captain America collection, Death of the Dream, gave me the nudge to check out the rest of Brubaker's run, but I think it is with this second volume that I finally get the sense I'm reading the same Captain America everyone's been gushing about for so long. Consider me well and truly won over.
Dread
06-02-2009, 01:59 AM
Excellent! :up:
TheCorpulent1
06-02-2009, 09:10 AM
What does Burden of Dreams cover? I don't remember seeing a trade with that subtitle.
Keyser Soze
06-02-2009, 05:49 PM
It covers Captain America 31-36
Alastor
06-02-2009, 07:48 PM
I'm not too keen on the idea of the Heroes Reborn Bucky joining Cap, but I trust Brubaker to make it work. I'm just glad that Steve isn't coming back, Bucky is such a great character and I have loved seeing him grow into the role of Captain America, it would be such a shame to bring Steve back for sales reasons.
TheCorpulent1
06-03-2009, 08:02 AM
Steve'll come back eventually. Hopefully, Bucky won't have to die for that to happen and we can have them team up from time to time and be twice as awesome. :)
Harlekin
06-03-2009, 08:04 AM
I don't know, maybe the Marvel U really has moved on without Steve. I wouldn't be averse to him never returning.
TheCorpulent1
06-03-2009, 08:19 AM
I would. I like Bucky and I wouldn't be too broken up if Steve never came back, but a Marvel universe without Steve Rogers is a little bit darker than I would prefer. It'd be like Superman getting taken out of the DC universe forever. Or TNG moving on without Picard. It'd just feel wrong.
Harlekin
06-03-2009, 08:28 AM
I don't know, I think the universe can still be a happy place without him. He doesn't quite represent what Superman does in the grand scheme of things.
Thing is, Marvel would have to undertake an attitude shift (which I think is in order anyway) and come back to more fun storytelling.
Dread
06-03-2009, 07:18 PM
Part of me wishes that Marvel and even Brubaker really do have the sense to realize what they have accomplished with James Barnes becoming New Cap. To be completely blunt, Steve Rogers is an exhausted character. No matter how well anyone writes him, Brubaker included, you can only do so much and go so far with a character who has been going strong for almost 70 years. Every moment of every instant that Steve spent fighting in WWII has been told, retold, and told again via flashbacks, 70's INVADERS comics, period comics, etc. While his character is fine in a team book, when an "iconic, perfect American hero with absolutely not one damn flaw who makes one mistake a decade" is fine to balance out other characters, in a solo title there is only so long you can handle that. It is rather telling that the most memorable or relevant stories of Steve Rogers that came within the last few decades have usually involved him either dying (seemingly or literally), quitting, being replaced, or having some sort of conflict of interest, i.e. getting off the beaten path. If you thought Spider-Man has been run into the ground with absolutely no creative stories to be told with him in his status quo after 47 years, then Captain America's over 65 year tenure will be maddening. And I say this as someone who loved how Brubaker wrote Cap in his first 25 issues. Granted, I think CIVIL WAR was a godsend for a few of those issues in terms of motives and topics to handle, and Bucky's return had been a subplot from the very start. Brubaker has spent almost from his first issue grooming Steve's successor. It merely became obvious two years ago.
A part of me wonders if the "leak" about what REBIRTH may be about was a planned "mistake", trying to hide what it really is about until the last day, or at least until CAPTAIN AMERICA #600. For all we know it could be about Steve's return. Or somehow Sharon's unborn child returning via time technology. It could even have more to so with the "Heroes Reborn" Bucky, and the world she hails from.
The James Barnes Cap is literally lightening in a bottle. It's revived the franchise, allowed CAPTAIN AMERICA to still sell over 60% better years later than many of Brubaker's pre-CW issues did with Steve, and has allowed some fans to rethink the idea that superhero comics never change, merely present the illusion of change. I think this has been a successful transition of a legacy character (retcons or not, Captain America has been made a legacy character, with men filling in for Steve when he was frozen, such as the Grand Director) in the modern era, the 21st century, which is about as rare as being a mutant once was. Now, I know there is some prevailing wisdom that Steve Rogers could return without becoming Captain America again, but c'mon, we all know how that story will go. Even if Brubaker keeps him something akin to an Orson Randall from IMMORTAL IRON FIST (who, frankly, virtually stole many issues from Danial Rand, all but making him an unofficial sidekick; we just didn't mind because he was new and cool), we know how this movie will end. The moment, the HOUR, Brubaker is off CAPTAIN AMERICA, the very next writer will have reborn Steve don the mask again. James Barnes will be tossed to the wayside like Wally West or Kyle Rayner, his fans told that they're "less equal", and that'll be that. New kid has got to move over for the golden oldie. God, sometimes I wish comics were run by people who weren't only a few summers from being AARP's target audience. Who could let go of their distant childhoods and let things grow the **** up now and then. Who could let Peter Parker stay married, the X-Men mythos actually start to resemble a social movement, and yes, allow Steve to move into the next world. The last thing Marvel should want readers of CAPTAIN AMERICA to think is that they've literally wasted the last two years of stories, and then you watch that book go from a near 70k monthly seller back to 34k in three months, six tops. Even a $4 cover price may not be able to nullify an over 50% drop.
Maybe it's not fair to maybe expect and hope Brubaker and his editors to not do a story they may have for Steve's return, that may by all rights be excellent, simply out of fear of what the next creative team WILL do as soon as Brubaker leaves. But frankly, I don't think it is fair to drag along readers for 2-3 years to not only embrace the mother of all resurrections, but a transition of the guard and all of the stories since where Bucky has had to struggle to fill the shoes only for it to so blatantly and completely be thrown out the window, made worthless. If Rogers just returns from Pluto's slot machines and takes his costume back, what does James do then? Go back to saying, "Golly gee, Cap!" and being the sidekick? Try to be a "heroic" Winter Soldier with his plain jane costume a symbol of something he's not worthy of, simply because he wasn't in print since the 60's? I mean, Brubaker was technically right when he stated that Stan Lee did a retcon killing him off (basically to fill his agenda of thinking sidekicks were usually dumb or played out, least at the time).
Barnes has more rights to that costume than anyone else. He was in those golden age stories right along Steve. He gets to share a lot of wartime memories and allies with Steve, and even some of the supporting cast. The difference is that unlike Steve, Barnes is closer to the common man because he has stuff to answer for. He's enhanced but not a super-soldier, so he has to compensate. He's flawed, and struggles to meet or explain Steve's ideals. They get to do the "man out of time" angle with Barnes, who hasn't been thawed for over 13 years as Steve was, without repeating Steve's stories. Barnes has his own past, his own connections, even enemies that one can drudge up. There's no downside. Critics love it. It still sells excellently, almost double what it it did before CW, over a year later. There is no need to fix what isn't broken just for yet another instance of old men telling me that the character I like is worthless and has to step back so the quarter-century legend can dust off and recapture the glory of doing THE EXACT SAME STORIES HE HAS ALREADY DONE.
People bring up Superman and Batman, but there are caveats. Superman is far from a mortal human being; he can cheat death and live longer via being an alien. He has an excuse. Batman, though, while I am being blunt and frank, is in a similar situation. There is literally nothing more to do with him. It just is a shame that Dick Grayson couldn't be allowed to rise to Wayne's stature in DC in his own costume and life outlook, that he cultivated on his own with the Teen Titans, as Nightwing, a non-gritty hero. No, he can only do it by becoming Wayne Jr. and Batman II.
Marvel needs, for once in their existence, to not think about a cheap, immediate buck without a mind to the future or their growth. Let DC be the company of old men forever reliving the 70's status quo until we all die. You can live up to the past without repeating it, and I think that's what Brubaker has done with Barnes and CA.
Kyle Rayner fans are bitter, but at least they had practically a decade in the sun. Barnes hasn't even had a Presidential term yet as Captain America. Go with it, Marvel. Live up to your own ads. Embrace Change. Resist the Nostalgic Entrophy of many superhero comics, this one time. :up:
Dread
06-04-2009, 08:34 PM
http://thebakersanimationcartoons.blogspot.com/
From cartoonist Kyle Baker's blog, about a "Marvel gig" with an image. Could it be REBIRTH related?
RockSP
06-04-2009, 08:41 PM
Finally doing something with Justice/Josiah X?
Dread
06-04-2009, 09:02 PM
Remember that REBIRTH image....that white star not on blue, but pitch black. Bit of a clue?
Darthphere
06-04-2009, 09:05 PM
Racist.
Dread
06-04-2009, 09:14 PM
Hey man, I didn't make that REBIRTH image. :o
Spider-ManHero12
06-04-2009, 09:28 PM
http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2687&disp=table
Preview for issue #600. Wow, that looks fantastic! Can't wait! :up:
TheCorpulent1
06-05-2009, 08:36 AM
Finally doing something with Justice/Josiah X?
I'd be all over that and I don't even like Baker's art.
Harlekin
06-05-2009, 07:13 PM
I'd go out of my mind if Cap Am #600 featured Josiah. Heck, if any comic featured Josiah.
roach
06-05-2009, 07:32 PM
Part of me wishes that Marvel and even Brubaker really do have the sense to realize what they have accomplished with James Barnes becoming New Cap. To be completely blunt, Steve Rogers is an exhausted character. No matter how well anyone writes him, Brubaker included, you can only do so much and go so far with a character who has been going strong for almost 70 years. Every moment of every instant that Steve spent fighting in WWII has been told, retold, and told again via flashbacks, 70's INVADERS comics, period comics, etc. I'll have to disagree with you. Cap's first mission hasnt been told nor has the training he recieved that would make him Captain America. Who taught Cap to fight or to be an expert tactician or to lead???While his character is fine in a team book, when an "iconic, perfect American hero with absolutely not one damn flaw who makes one mistake a decade" is fine to balance out other characters, in a solo title there is only so long you can handle that. It is rather telling that the most memorable or relevant stories of Steve Rogers that came within the last few decades have usually involved him either dying (seemingly or literally), quitting, being replaced, or having some sort of conflict of interest, i.e. getting off the beaten path. If you thought Spider-Man has been run into the ground with absolutely no creative stories to be told with him in his status quo after 47 years, then Captain America's over 65 year tenure will be maddening. And I say this as someone who loved how Brubaker wrote Cap in his first 25 issues. Granted, I think CIVIL WAR was a godsend for a few of those issues in terms of motives and topics to handle, and Bucky's return had been a subplot from the very start. Brubaker has spent almost from his first issue grooming Steve's successor. It merely became obvious two years ago.
A part of me wonders if the "leak" about what REBIRTH may be about was a planned "mistake", trying to hide what it really is about until the last day, or at least until CAPTAIN AMERICA #600. For all we know it could be about Steve's return. Or somehow Sharon's unborn child returning via time technology. It could even have more to so with the "Heroes Reborn" Bucky, and the world she hails from.
The James Barnes Cap is literally lightening in a bottle. It's revived the franchise, allowed CAPTAIN AMERICA to still sell over 60% better years later than many of Brubaker's pre-CW issues did with Steve, and has allowed some fans to rethink the idea that superhero comics never change, merely present the illusion of change. I think this has been a successful transition of a legacy character (retcons or not, Captain America has been made a legacy character, with men filling in for Steve when he was frozen, such as the Grand Director) in the modern era, the 21st century, which is about as rare as being a mutant once was. Now, I know there is some prevailing wisdom that Steve Rogers could return without becoming Captain America again, but c'mon, we all know how that story will go. Even if Brubaker keeps him something akin to an Orson Randall from IMMORTAL IRON FIST (who, frankly, virtually stole many issues from Danial Rand, all but making him an unofficial sidekick; we just didn't mind because he was new and cool), we know how this movie will end. The moment, the HOUR, Brubaker is off CAPTAIN AMERICA, the very next writer will have reborn Steve don the mask again. James Barnes will be tossed to the wayside like Wally West or Kyle Rayner, his fans told that they're "less equal", and that'll be that. New kid has got to move over for the golden oldie. God, sometimes I wish comics were run by people who weren't only a few summers from being AARP's target audience. Who could let go of their distant childhoods and let things grow the **** up now and then. Who could let Peter Parker stay married, the X-Men mythos actually start to resemble a social movement, and yes, allow Steve to move into the next world. The last thing Marvel should want readers of CAPTAIN AMERICA to think is that they've literally wasted the last two years of stories, and then you watch that book go from a near 70k monthly seller back to 34k in three months, six tops. Even a $4 cover price may not be able to nullify an over 50% drop.
Maybe it's not fair to maybe expect and hope Brubaker and his editors to not do a story they may have for Steve's return, that may by all rights be excellent, simply out of fear of what the next creative team WILL do as soon as Brubaker leaves. But frankly, I don't think it is fair to drag along readers for 2-3 years to not only embrace the mother of all resurrections, but a transition of the guard and all of the stories since where Bucky has had to struggle to fill the shoes only for it to so blatantly and completely be thrown out the window, made worthless. If Rogers just returns from Pluto's slot machines and takes his costume back, what does James do then? Go back to saying, "Golly gee, Cap!" and being the sidekick? Try to be a "heroic" Winter Soldier with his plain jane costume a symbol of something he's not worthy of, simply because he wasn't in print since the 60's? I mean, Brubaker was technically right when he stated that Stan Lee did a retcon killing him off (basically to fill his agenda of thinking sidekicks were usually dumb or played out, least at the time).
Barnes has more rights to that costume than anyone else. He was in those golden age stories right along Steve. He gets to share a lot of wartime memories and allies with Steve, and even some of the supporting cast. The difference is that unlike Steve, Barnes is closer to the common man because he has stuff to answer for. He's enhanced but not a super-soldier, so he has to compensate. He's flawed, and struggles to meet or explain Steve's ideals. They get to do the "man out of time" angle with Barnes, who hasn't been thawed for over 13 years as Steve was, without repeating Steve's stories. Barnes has his own past, his own connections, even enemies that one can drudge up. There's no downside. Critics love it. It still sells excellently, almost double what it it did before CW, over a year later. There is no need to fix what isn't broken just for yet another instance of old men telling me that the character I like is worthless and has to step back so the quarter-century legend can dust off and recapture the glory of doing THE EXACT SAME STORIES HE HAS ALREADY DONE. But if Im a fan of Rogers why do I have to be told that he is old and useless???
People bring up Superman and Batman, but there are caveats. Superman is far from a mortal human being; he can cheat death and live longer via being an alien. He has an excuse. Batman, though, while I am being blunt and frank, is in a similar situation. There is literally nothing more to do with him. It just is a shame that Dick Grayson couldn't be allowed to rise to Wayne's stature in DC in his own costume and life outlook, that he cultivated on his own with the Teen Titans, as Nightwing, a non-gritty hero. No, he can only do it by becoming Wayne Jr. and Batman II.
Marvel needs, for once in their existence, to not think about a cheap, immediate buck without a mind to the future or their growth. Let DC be the company of old men forever reliving the 70's status quo until we all die. You can live up to the past without repeating it, and I think that's what Brubaker has done with Barnes and CA.
Kyle Rayner fans are bitter, but at least they had practically a decade in the sun. Barnes hasn't even had a Presidential term yet as Captain America. Go with it, Marvel. Live up to your own ads. Embrace Change. Resist the Nostalgic Entrophy of many superhero comics, this one time. :up:
actually the character that is getting reborn isnt Rogers but Isaiah Bradley
Keyser Soze
06-05-2009, 07:52 PM
Part of me wishes that Marvel and even Brubaker really do have the sense to realize what they have accomplished with James Barnes becoming New Cap. To be completely blunt, Steve Rogers is an exhausted character. No matter how well anyone writes him, Brubaker included, you can only do so much and go so far with a character who has been going strong for almost 70 years. Every moment of every instant that Steve spent fighting in WWII has been told, retold, and told again via flashbacks, 70's INVADERS comics, period comics, etc. While his character is fine in a team book, when an "iconic, perfect American hero with absolutely not one damn flaw who makes one mistake a decade" is fine to balance out other characters, in a solo title there is only so long you can handle that. It is rather telling that the most memorable or relevant stories of Steve Rogers that came within the last few decades have usually involved him either dying (seemingly or literally), quitting, being replaced, or having some sort of conflict of interest, i.e. getting off the beaten path. If you thought Spider-Man has been run into the ground with absolutely no creative stories to be told with him in his status quo after 47 years, then Captain America's over 65 year tenure will be maddening. And I say this as someone who loved how Brubaker wrote Cap in his first 25 issues. Granted, I think CIVIL WAR was a godsend for a few of those issues in terms of motives and topics to handle, and Bucky's return had been a subplot from the very start. Brubaker has spent almost from his first issue grooming Steve's successor. It merely became obvious two years ago.
A part of me wonders if the "leak" about what REBIRTH may be about was a planned "mistake", trying to hide what it really is about until the last day, or at least until CAPTAIN AMERICA #600. For all we know it could be about Steve's return. Or somehow Sharon's unborn child returning via time technology. It could even have more to so with the "Heroes Reborn" Bucky, and the world she hails from.
The James Barnes Cap is literally lightening in a bottle. It's revived the franchise, allowed CAPTAIN AMERICA to still sell over 60% better years later than many of Brubaker's pre-CW issues did with Steve, and has allowed some fans to rethink the idea that superhero comics never change, merely present the illusion of change. I think this has been a successful transition of a legacy character (retcons or not, Captain America has been made a legacy character, with men filling in for Steve when he was frozen, such as the Grand Director) in the modern era, the 21st century, which is about as rare as being a mutant once was. Now, I know there is some prevailing wisdom that Steve Rogers could return without becoming Captain America again, but c'mon, we all know how that story will go. Even if Brubaker keeps him something akin to an Orson Randall from IMMORTAL IRON FIST (who, frankly, virtually stole many issues from Danial Rand, all but making him an unofficial sidekick; we just didn't mind because he was new and cool), we know how this movie will end. The moment, the HOUR, Brubaker is off CAPTAIN AMERICA, the very next writer will have reborn Steve don the mask again. James Barnes will be tossed to the wayside like Wally West or Kyle Rayner, his fans told that they're "less equal", and that'll be that. New kid has got to move over for the golden oldie. God, sometimes I wish comics were run by people who weren't only a few summers from being AARP's target audience. Who could let go of their distant childhoods and let things grow the **** up now and then. Who could let Peter Parker stay married, the X-Men mythos actually start to resemble a social movement, and yes, allow Steve to move into the next world. The last thing Marvel should want readers of CAPTAIN AMERICA to think is that they've literally wasted the last two years of stories, and then you watch that book go from a near 70k monthly seller back to 34k in three months, six tops. Even a $4 cover price may not be able to nullify an over 50% drop.
Maybe it's not fair to maybe expect and hope Brubaker and his editors to not do a story they may have for Steve's return, that may by all rights be excellent, simply out of fear of what the next creative team WILL do as soon as Brubaker leaves. But frankly, I don't think it is fair to drag along readers for 2-3 years to not only embrace the mother of all resurrections, but a transition of the guard and all of the stories since where Bucky has had to struggle to fill the shoes only for it to so blatantly and completely be thrown out the window, made worthless. If Rogers just returns from Pluto's slot machines and takes his costume back, what does James do then? Go back to saying, "Golly gee, Cap!" and being the sidekick? Try to be a "heroic" Winter Soldier with his plain jane costume a symbol of something he's not worthy of, simply because he wasn't in print since the 60's? I mean, Brubaker was technically right when he stated that Stan Lee did a retcon killing him off (basically to fill his agenda of thinking sidekicks were usually dumb or played out, least at the time).
Barnes has more rights to that costume than anyone else. He was in those golden age stories right along Steve. He gets to share a lot of wartime memories and allies with Steve, and even some of the supporting cast. The difference is that unlike Steve, Barnes is closer to the common man because he has stuff to answer for. He's enhanced but not a super-soldier, so he has to compensate. He's flawed, and struggles to meet or explain Steve's ideals. They get to do the "man out of time" angle with Barnes, who hasn't been thawed for over 13 years as Steve was, without repeating Steve's stories. Barnes has his own past, his own connections, even enemies that one can drudge up. There's no downside. Critics love it. It still sells excellently, almost double what it it did before CW, over a year later. There is no need to fix what isn't broken just for yet another instance of old men telling me that the character I like is worthless and has to step back so the quarter-century legend can dust off and recapture the glory of doing THE EXACT SAME STORIES HE HAS ALREADY DONE.
People bring up Superman and Batman, but there are caveats. Superman is far from a mortal human being; he can cheat death and live longer via being an alien. He has an excuse. Batman, though, while I am being blunt and frank, is in a similar situation. There is literally nothing more to do with him. It just is a shame that Dick Grayson couldn't be allowed to rise to Wayne's stature in DC in his own costume and life outlook, that he cultivated on his own with the Teen Titans, as Nightwing, a non-gritty hero. No, he can only do it by becoming Wayne Jr. and Batman II.
Marvel needs, for once in their existence, to not think about a cheap, immediate buck without a mind to the future or their growth. Let DC be the company of old men forever reliving the 70's status quo until we all die. You can live up to the past without repeating it, and I think that's what Brubaker has done with Barnes and CA.
Kyle Rayner fans are bitter, but at least they had practically a decade in the sun. Barnes hasn't even had a Presidential term yet as Captain America. Go with it, Marvel. Live up to your own ads. Embrace Change. Resist the Nostalgic Entrophy of many superhero comics, this one time. :up:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a108/JokerSoze/OrsenWellesClap.gif
EPIC post, which perfectly verbalises the thoughts jumping around in my mind.
I think the Kyle comparison is a fair one. There are people still unhappy Kyle was replaced by the returning Hal, but imagine how much worse it would have been for Kyle if Hal was returned to the role of flagship Green Lantern less than 2 years after Emerald Twilight, just as Kyle was beginning to find his feet in the role.
TheCorpulent1
06-05-2009, 07:55 PM
It wouldn't have been worse for Kyle. Kyle wouldn't have any fans at that point and Hal's return would've been simply part of the story, as opposed to the giant editorial nostalgia trip that it was seen as. Kyle fans wouldn't know what they were missing, obviously, but then... Kyle fans wouldn't know what they were missing. So it wouldn't matter.
roach
06-05-2009, 07:56 PM
I agree that the story should take its course but in the end I do believe that Rogers will be bac as Cap
TheCorpulent1
06-05-2009, 08:05 PM
Yeah, I think Steve'll be back in some capacity as well. But I wouldn't mind him taking a different identity or seeing it take a longer time or whatever.
Dread
06-05-2009, 08:32 PM
actually the character that is getting reborn isnt Rogers but Isaiah Bradley
That's at least the newest theory. If so it would make sense.
EPIC post, which perfectly verbalises the thoughts jumping around in my mind.
I think the Kyle comparison is a fair one. There are people still unhappy Kyle was replaced by the returning Hal, but imagine how much worse it would have been for Kyle if Hal was returned to the role of flagship Green Lantern less than 2 years after Emerald Twilight, just as Kyle was beginning to find his feet in the role.
Kyle Rayner kept the GREEN LANTERN franchise fresh and new for a good long time before Geoff Johns decided to bring Hal back to the ring and whatnot. I only had a few passing reads of the character but it seems demeaning to dismiss him after so many years.
The fact of the matter is, in 2006, CAPTAIN AMERICA under Brubaker telling kick-ass stories was selling about 45k (and those were up months). Now it still sells about 63k and can spike upwards at any moment. CA #600 will likely see two prints (at least) and quite high sales. That's frankly all because readers and retailers are clearly interested in New Cap, in Barnes. Brubaker's made them so. CA almost never falls out of the Top 25 since Barnes took over, and it's a book rarely involved with the rest of Marvel in itself. Brubaker's made readers and retailers care more about a new Cap than Millar has about his pompous imagination on Fantastic Four.
The New Cap is something that needs quite a few years to breathe before the cash crab of Steve returning is attempted. Two years isn't enough.
THANOSRULES
06-05-2009, 11:51 PM
The movie date is our real obstacle in this thing.
I'd be damned if Marvel had fresh "movie nu fans" open books only to see Bucky as Cap...I doubt they'd do that.
I say 5 more years of Bucky cap...but common sense tells me it will come before 2011..becuase of ..the F-ing movie...
I think arcs like the last one, where Bucky donned the WS garb just is brubaker keeping us real.
Dread
06-06-2009, 12:09 AM
To be fair, a billion people worldwide believe that MJ is the only woman Peter Parker has ever loved or had sex with and would be the only woman he would ever marry according to the films. How's that theory been going at Marvel? They're perfectly happy to let those movie fans get disappointed.
INVINCIBLE IRON MAN's "movie inspired plot" only lasted for the first arc, and after that it was two issues of middling before being inserted back into the course of things with DARK REIGN.
The movies have had no effect on INCREDIBLE HULK.
The point is that movies don't usually translate into consistent sales. Marvel would be wise staying the course. After a few spikes, INVINCIBLE IRON MAN is only selling mildly above where the last Iron Man book was.
THANOSRULES
06-06-2009, 02:32 AM
To be fair, a billion people worldwide believe that MJ is the only woman Peter Parker has ever loved or had sex with and would be the only woman he would ever marry according to the films. How's that theory been going at Marvel? They're perfectly happy to let those movie fans get disappointed.
INVINCIBLE IRON MAN's "movie inspired plot" only lasted for the first arc, and after that it was two issues of middling before being inserted back into the course of things with DARK REIGN.
The movies have had no effect on INCREDIBLE HULK.
The point is that movies don't usually translate into consistent sales. Marvel would be wise staying the course. After a few spikes, INVINCIBLE IRON MAN is only selling mildly above where the last Iron Man book was.
I think the movies have severely messed with the comics.
Look no further than X-men..where the x-men almost instantly dressed in quasi movie costumes...
Also deeply reflected in the ULTIMATE line...it has steadly changed as to where most costume designs and plots must have a cinematic vision. One could make the argument the whole line was forged to help bridge the gap between screen and ink.
It doesnt always break down to exact parrallels...but when your talking about the "main character" in captain america..him not being both steve rogers in the book and in the movie would be a confusing hurdle for any fans picking up the book due to the movies.
Movies can boost sales, they have in the past and will in the future. It's not always the case, but sometimes its more subtle, like trade sales. Ususally it's hard to tell. With HULK you had a great arc in Planet Hulk, and then a major event like WWH leading up years before the movie.
Iron Man saw a lot more exposure too. WHile the actual sales of Invincible may not have changed drastically, Iron man had a lot more books and exposure. He became a bit more Wolverine-ish and made cameos in tons of books to help boost sales.
I can't think of anything more drastic than the actual hero not being the same guy in the movie as in the comic. Maybe the FF had this with the Black Panther stuff, but that movie sucked anyways. The comic has sucked too, which makes a serious look at sales based on the movies silly. Even still when it came time for number 2 somehow Silver Surfer was retrofitted so his movie and original mold matched. Mark my words, Steve Rogers will be Cap by the time that flick comes out.
Also, your not going back far enough...look at the direction changes after Batman and superman movies.
Keyser Soze
06-06-2009, 05:17 AM
Also, your not going back far enough...look at the direction changes after Batman and superman movies.
Like Bruce Wayne being removed from the role of Batman, presumed dead by the DCU and replaced as Batman by Dick Grayson shortly after the overwhelming success of The Dark Knight? ;)
While I do think comics take cues from the films on many occasions, there are plenty of other instances where they do their own thing. If Bucky is a prominent character in the Captain America movie, newbies wouldn't be TOO overwhelmed with confusion over Bucky being Cap.
And you talk about howreturning Steve Rogers to the role of Captain America makes things accessible for new readers, but look at the multi-year longform story Brubaker has been telling. Even if he brought back Steve Rogers, odds are there would still be plenty of confusion. I'd say the best bet for cashing in on the movie's success would be to launch a mini-series starring Steve Rogers as Captain America during World War II, seeing as that's when the film will be set.
THANOSRULES
06-06-2009, 07:46 PM
DC's gone crazy these days so who knows...DC's sales suck, so they really feel that they Have to do extravagant and strange plot lines.
I was thinking about the Keaton Batman films.
At any rate it's not like I want these Bucky stories to end..it's just that i doubt personally marvel will have the comics and movie that different..they tend to be more conservative on such things.
roach
06-06-2009, 07:49 PM
did we not see a joker with scars just like in TDK?????
TheCorpulent1
06-09-2009, 08:54 AM
DC's gone crazy these days so who knows...DC's sales suck, so they really feel that they Have to do extravagant and strange plot lines.
I was thinking about the Keaton Batman films.
At any rate it's not like I want these Bucky stories to end..it's just that i doubt personally marvel will have the comics and movie that different..they tend to be more conservative on such things.
Right, because the Green Goblin taking charge of the USA's super-powered forces is so totally run-of-the-mill over at Marvel. ;)
Both companies are doing extravagant stories to capture and retain reader interest.
THANOSRULES
06-09-2009, 06:44 PM
I think DC goes a bit more overboard..especially with creating PC legacy characters and reshuffling there confusing multiverse.
Osborn was a bold move, but in a sense it was old hat, a small variation on plot lines that were developing for years. I think , in large part, it wasnt even neccesary.
TheCorpulent1
06-10-2009, 08:03 AM
That's mostly just because Dan DiDio apparently changes his mind about major things pretty often. According to numerous recent writers at DC, he's a bit of a terror to work for.
Anubis
06-10-2009, 10:58 AM
He's a cock bite.
CaptainCanada
06-12-2009, 10:33 PM
The new CBR-hosted Cup 'o Joe (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21573) is live, complete with ten pages from CA #600 (now just two and a half days away).
Looks good; the segments we see the most of in terms of characterization (the Eli/Rikki and New Avengers ones) look great.
Dread
06-13-2009, 12:39 AM
Ten pages? Man, guess they're expecting a lot of people to not get the book on Monday. :p
TheCorpulent1
06-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Doesn't it have more pages anyway? 10 out of 30- or 40-something pages ain't too bad.
CaptainCanada
06-14-2009, 11:25 AM
Doesn't it have more pages anyway? 10 out of 30- or 40-something pages ain't too bad.
The main story is 40-some, the whole page approaches 100, I believe.
TheCorpulent1
06-14-2009, 11:32 AM
Well, there you go. A 10-page preview is a mere pittance.
Sparta*
06-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Does anyone else think this is just a marketing ploy and Steve won't actually come back at all?
TheCorpulent1
06-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Haha, no. Barry Allen came back, dude. Steve's coming back eventually. Maybe not right this second, but someday.
NightBeetle
06-14-2009, 03:57 PM
Captain America #600 Advanced Review (http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4878&postcount=1)
Spoilers....
Spade
06-15-2009, 05:12 AM
http://au.comics.ign.com/articles/994/994625p1.html
Captain America Will Be 'Reborn'
Just over two years after Steve Rogers' death, Marvel Comics announces he will return in a new limited series.
by Richard George
US, June 15, 2009 - In March 2007, on the heels of Marvel's Civil War series, writer Ed Brubaker and artist Steve Epting did the unthinkable - they killed Steve Rogers, better known to the world as Captain America. Coming at a time when the United States was engaged in vigorous debate about wars overseas - and conveniently hitting stores when the news cycle was slow - Cap's death swept the nation, becoming a cultural talking point for days and weeks to come. Today Cap is set to once agian become a talking point - mostly because he can't seem to stay dead.
Flash forward two years from Civil War. Captain America has settled into a new routine. James Buchanan 'Bucky' Barnes has taken over the identity of the Sentinel of Liberty, but is still trying to capture the spirit of the original Marvel icon. He is a member of a new Avengers team, albeit not gravitating towards a leadership position as his mentor always did.
Come July that dynamic changes (or starts to change at least). The Marvel Universe suddenly has a beacon of hope amidst the clouds cast by Norman Osborn's Dark Reign. Marvel Comics has announced that Steve Rogers will be returning later this year in a storyline that kicks off with Ed Brubaker and Bryan Hitch's "Captain America Reborn" mini-series.
Back in April, Marvel put word out that a new five-issue project, titled "Reborn", would be hitting store shelves on July 1, 2009. No details were provided outside of the writer, Ed Brubaker, the artist, Bryan Hitch, and the cover artists - Hitch, John Cassaday and the legendary Alex Ross. With a talent roster like this, fans were understandably excited and curious, but Marvel Comics released no further details and offered no comment. Any attempts by IGN to gather more information were quickly denied. Speculation has always pointed to this being a Captain America story, given the involvement of Brubaker, but Marvel has done an admirable job preventing leaks in an industry that is known for them.
This morning the publisher provided further details for Reborn, including the slight name change to "Captain America Reborn". The first issue ships to stores in just over two weeks. Timed to coincide with a special release of Captain America #600 - which will be available at many retailers today, with all other comic book shops receiving copies on Wendesday - Marvel has begun a blitz of PR and hype to lead up to what will no doubt be one of the biggest releases of the year.
Marvel is still keeping quiet on how Rogers will return. The news thus far, which was first reported by the New York Daily News, has been limited to a confirmation of Rogers' revival. Marvel EIC Joe Quesada did mention to the publication that the creators had been "planning this moment for 2.5 years." Despite talking to both Brubaker and Hitch, the Daily News mentioned no other specifics about the project.
Be sure to stay tuned to IGN for the latest on Captain America Reborn. We're awaiting more comments from Marvel, and will bring them to you the second we are able.
NightBeetle
06-15-2009, 06:20 AM
http://marvel.com/reborn
After this what was the whole point of letting bucky carried the mantle?
NightBeetle
06-15-2009, 06:49 AM
Reborn #1 Cover
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/6702/8368newstoryimage483871.jpg
yenaled
06-15-2009, 07:30 AM
Meh. Told you #600 was leading into the return of Steve.
Sparta*
06-15-2009, 09:45 AM
Wow, I eat my words :D and have never been happier to do so
Double Down
06-15-2009, 09:47 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/arts/2009/06/15/2009-06-15_some_comic_relief_captain_america_is_coming_bac k_to_life_in_a_new_fivepart_serie.html
Darthphere
06-15-2009, 10:20 AM
Cool. Bru is writing it so it will be well done. Hitch is drawing it, so it will be late.
TheCorpulent1
06-15-2009, 10:23 AM
http://marvel.com/reborn
After this what was the whole point of letting bucky carried the mantle?
For Bucky to redeem himself in his own eyes? Taking up a mantle doesn't always have to be about a sidekick graduating to the big leagues forever and ever and ever. In fact, it pretty much never is. I think they could've waited a little longer--more like 5 years instead of the 2 we've had--but I'm happy to see Steve come back. I knew he wouldn't be dead for too long.
Man, Dread's gonna have a field day with this. :D
Blindfighter
06-15-2009, 10:42 AM
I wonder what will happen to Bucky
TheCorpulent1
06-15-2009, 10:53 AM
I hope he's not killed off. As long as he's still active as a hero, I think I'll be cool with whatever happens. He's certainly earned his place among the Marvel universe's A-list.
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