The Official Captain America Thread

[PhotoJones]

Yeah. It's be nice to see him pop up somewhere. Brubaker could do good things with him.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe he'll show up in Patriot's one-shot. Brubaker's writing that.

[PhotoJones]

It's possible. Actually, didn't I see a Medina preview pic with him in it?

[Anubis]

That was the Grand dad.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Isaiah's been in preview pages. I don't think I've seen Josiah.

[PhotoJones]

Oh. Well, he's cool too. :up:

[Anubis]

The last time we saw Josiah was at the end of the Crew, after they had busted into that gated community going after those gang leaders, and Kasper was freakin' out cuz he killed a security guard. Man, I gotta go back and read that book again. Feels like a lifetime ago. If anybody should know where Josiah went, it should be War Machine.

[PhotoJones]

Who's a Skrull now.

[TheCorpulent1]

True. I wouldn't even mind seeing him join up with the Initiative, even though it doesn't really make much sense with what I remember of his personality.

[PhotoJones]

Maybe he'll come back to lead the Young Avengers.

[Anubis]

I don't think so. I just don't see the YA working all that well with a militant black Muslim running the show.

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, but he's a cool militant black Muslim. I'd follow his lead. :up:

[Anubis]

I think he'd have fit in well with the Defenders. Or maybe the New Avengers.

[PhotoJones]

I wonder if he'd clash with Luke at all.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think he'd have fit in well with the Defenders. Or maybe the New Avengers.
Dear God, yes. He'd be great for the Defenders. Write to Joe Casey!

[PhotoJones]

That'd make him a member of the Initiative. I'm not really buying that.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, we'll see how Defenders plays out. Colossus was supposed to have immunity from the SHRA. Maybe the Defenders is some kind of fringe team without much oversight.

[PhotoJones]

It's definitely a state team, which means the members would all have to be registered. That's about all we know.

[TheCorpulent1]

I wonder why Colossus joins...

[PhotoJones]

To better serve the world? Because he's disenchanted with the X-Men's goals? Because Kitty's a nagging *****? Take your pick.

[Anubis]

Maybe Kitty dies......:( So he joined the army.

[PhotoJones]

Yikes.

[TheCorpulent1]

Hey, remember when Kitty dressed like a **** in X-Treme X-Men?

[PhotoJones]

Why do you find pleasure in reminding us of horrible things?

[TheCorpulent1]

All the talk of Pete banging Kitty here and Gambit's costume in another thread got me thinking of it.

[PhotoJones]

Get your mind out of the gutter. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

I'll settle for putting yours in it.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/98757117571.44.GIF

Look, thong lines! :)

[PhotoJones]

At least Larocca was still rendering things at that point.

[Apprentice]

I'll settle for putting yours in it.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/98757117571.44.GIF

Look, thong lines! :)

Lockheed ruins the look :o

[PhotoJones]

Look, thong lines! :)

Why'd you change the picture? :confused:

[TheCorpulent1]

Because she looks ****tier on that cover.

[PhotoJones]

You're sick.

[Darthphere]

Because she looks ****tier on that cover.

Remember that ChineseFOOD kid? Oh man, that was great.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't remember any ChineseFOOD kid. :confused:

[PhotoJones]

I vaguely remember that guy...

[Darthphere]

I don't remember any ChineseFOOD kid. :confused:

I called Kitty a **** and he went off defending her honor or whatever.

[TheCorpulent1]

I must've been away that week or something.

[Darthphere]

Read and enjoy. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=226438&highlight=Kitty+Pryde+****)

[PhotoJones]

Yep, I remember him.

[Darthphere]

Yep, I remember him.

lollersk8's.:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, he was a 'tard.

[Darthphere]

Putting it lightly.

[PhotoJones]

How about laying it on heavily?

[Red]

Read and enjoy. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=226438&highlight=Kitty+Pryde+****)

What a dweeb.

[DoomRulz]

Read and enjoy. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=226438&highlight=Kitty+Pryde+****)

And I thought DACMAN was a fanboy :whatever:

[RockSP]

The last time we saw Josiah was at the end of the Crew, after they had busted into that gated community going after those gang leaders, and Kasper was freakin' out cuz he killed a security guard. Man, I gotta go back and read that book again. Feels like a lifetime ago. If anybody should know where Josiah went, it should be War Machine.

Falcon & The Crew

Written by Priest.

Art by...somebody with skillz.

Joey Q, make it happen.

[Dread]

Stark did actually try to convince Clint to become the new Cap in the Fallen Son series.

Ah, yes, "The Five Stages of Angst". I can't believe anyone who isn't a wrist-slitting emo teenager felt basing a series on the 5 stages of grief was a good idea.

I never read it, but it was Loeb's last Marvel work since he went exclusive that hasn't been lambasted as absolute garbage, unlike his WOLVERINE run, ONSLAUGHT REBORN, and ULTIMATES 3.

You know who else is a ****ing genius? The guy that put Butch Guice on pencils for half this book. :up:

Yeah, Guice is good from what I have seen.

Maybe he'll show up in Patriot's one-shot. Brubaker's writing that.

I was thinking that, too. It wouldn't be impossible.

I don't know, we'll see how Defenders plays out. Colossus was supposed to have immunity from the SHRA. Maybe the Defenders is some kind of fringe team without much oversight.

Colossus isn't immune. The story was that the Mutant Registration Act, which was passed but seemed to fade into minor subplot land when Claremont left the major X-books after 19 years, got merged with the SHRA. That act required that mutants register to the government, and that the government make files on known active mutants. The 198 Files show that Colossus is indeed on their list.

The X-Men took a stance of collective neutrility during the Civil War. They didn't agree with the SHRA, but did nothing to actively oppose it, feeling they had their own **** to deal with. They also did nothing to help it, feeling the feds have done them no favors lately. The only mutant who seemed to be gung-ho for the SHRA was Bishop, which considering he came from a Sentinal ruled future made no ****ing sense. The original 4 X-Men (Cyclops, Iceman, Archangel, and Beast) were willing to oppose SHRA flunkies to make sure the escaped 198 weren't killed when X-Force broke them out of the X-Mansion under SENTINAL O*N*E*'s nose, but that was the extent of their involvement. Bishop took part in the final battle in CW #7, and presumably is still part of the Initiative.

So, due to the MRA/THE 198 stuff, Colossus would already be known to the government as some sort of mutant superhero working with the X-Men. I doubt it would be so much of a hassle to move to another team, and one of their 198 confirmed mutants on U.S. soil (discounting Mutant Zero in A:TI).

I wonder why Colossus joins...

That is the $64,000 question.

To better serve the world? Because he's disenchanted with the X-Men's goals? Because Kitty's a nagging *****? Take your pick.

But are any of those worthy stories? That will be Casey's challenge. To make it work without seeming random or obligatory. It is possible, but not easy.

Hey, remember when Kitty dressed like a **** in X-Treme X-Men?

Sure do. Lord, did X-Treme X-Men evolve into a Claremont fetish session for Storm. :p No one thought he could do any worse until X-MEN: THE END.

If Kitty DOESN'T die, then it would seem weird that Colossus would just bail on her like that. He's done it before, but now's supposed to be different.

[PhotoJones]

But are any of those worthy stories? That will be Casey's challenge. To make it work without seeming random or obligatory. It is possible, but not easy.

I think so. They're not only worthy, but I think they're pretty plausible, considering Colossus' personality. His only reason for leaving Russia in the first place has because Xavier convinced him that the world needed his powers. It's not that far from "With great power, comes great responsibility," actually. Maybe Colossus feels that somewhere along the line he lost sight of that and needs to put his abilities to good use for the greater good of all Earth's inhabitants, and not just it's mutant community.

It could be a great character progression for Colossus; one that's much needed, in my opinion.

However Casey does it, I just hope he starts writing Colossus as living up to his full potential. I think we're all tired of seeing him be comics' wussiest strong man.

[TheCorpulent1]

We'd probably have some more insight to Colossus' character if Astonishing X-Men didn't come out quarterly now. I hope Casey kicks some ass with Colossus, too. Honestly, the strength divide between him and She-Hulk isn't very great at all. If Casey just started writing him as She-Hulk's equal, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Chalk it up to Ord's experiments or a second mutation that boosts his strength; either way, I think it's high time that Colossus took his place amongst the top-tier powerhouses alongside most of the other super-teams' powerhouses. The Avengers had Thor and now the Sentry, the Defenders had the Hulk, the Fantastic Four have the Thing (whom Slott made class 100)--the X-Men are really lagging behind if their absolute strongest is only a 90-tonner.

[PhotoJones]

Did you just refer to Colossus as a her? Damn. He's gotten soft. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

D'oh. All the talk of She-Hulk's verdant womanliness confuzzled my brain. :(

[PhotoJones]

I didn't know if you were making a subtle remark about Colossus' current pansiness, or not.

[TheCorpulent1]

Nah, I'm not that clever.

[PhotoJones]

Did anyone read that WWH: X-Men mini? I remember someone mentioning that Colossus didn't do squat against the Hulk.

[TheCorpulent1]

The Hulk broke his arms. While he was in armored form.

[PhotoJones]

Oh, nice. :down

[TheCorpulent1]

That one didn't bother me too much. The Hulk was at his strongest ever, after all.

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, but I can just picture Colossus rushing in, getting his arms broken and rushing out.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's basically how it went. The Astonishing X-Men interrupt the Hulk in the process of beating on the New X-Men, Colossus grapples with him for a while, Colossus' arms go "snap!", and Colossus just kind of shuffles off while the Hulk deals with other characters.

[PhotoJones]

That's so ****ing sad. :(

[CaptainCanada]

Hulk was nice enough to say Colossus would have been a good opponent for him in Hulk's classic form.

[PhotoJones]

I'm sure that made Piotr's day.

[Vanguard07]

Piotr also stood still up to hulk even with his arms mangled. He was still willing to have a go at it but others interupted.

[PhotoJones]

I hope he at least got a couple good licks in before getting his ass handed to him.

[Vanguard07]

I dunno. It felt to me like a pretty good showing on Pete's part given that it was "the strongest hulk ever" and the whole series was designed solely for unreasonably fanboyish hulk wins.

I cant remember why I felt that way though. Like I dont remember what Pete actually managed to do.

On an unrelated note: Anyone have any idea when Nick Fury is gonna start showing up in comics again? the underground/on the run/ only ever appearing as a hologram, voice on the phone or LMD thing is getting kinda annoying to me.

[TheCorpulent1]

He's supposed to return in this Secret Invasion mess at some point.

[PhotoJones]

I'm looking forward to that, actually. I miss Nick almost as much as I miss Steve.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm looking forward to it too, but I have a feeling his return is just going to be him suddenly appearing out of nowhere with all the answers to the problem of the Skrull invasion because he secretly discovered them months ago and has been working behind the scenes on something or other to counteract them all this time. That would be horrendously trite.

[PhotoJones]

That's almost exactly what I imagined Bendis was going to do as well. :(

[Vanguard07]

Heh. I wouldnt mind that. When Nick returns it should be in a manner befitting his awesomeness.
Just showing up with all the answers and saving everyone's ass at the last minute, making it all look easy and making everyone else look like noobs would be a fine example of that.

[PhotoJones]

I can see everyone, including SHIELD, being wit's end and Fury demanding immunity and control of SHIELD back in exchange for the answers that everyone's looking for.

[Vanguard07]

THAT would be exactly what I want out of his return.
Fury coming back and taking back his throne.

&*%# Tony Stark.
&%&$ him raw.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd actually rather see Fury just do the deed, take the Skrulls down, and make Tony and SHIELD look like complete douchebags, since he could do--alone and underground--what they couldn't with virtually unlimited resources.

[Vanguard07]

I'd settle for that but dammit I miss Fury as head of Shield.

BTW what's your avatar from?

[TheCorpulent1]

Beast Wars. Specifically, this really great multi-episode arc where the Maximals' leader Optimus Primal was thought dead, their chief scientist was occupied with other stuff, and the three remaining Maximals were all that was left to defend the base from like 8 or 10 Predacons. The av is from right before the final shootout. The Mainframe animators decided to go with a spaghetti western feel, really playing up the hopeless odds. I loved it. :D

[PhotoJones]

I'd actually rather see Fury just do the deed, take the Skrulls down, and make Tony and SHIELD look like complete douchebags, since he could do--alone and underground--what they couldn't with virtually unlimited resources.

That would obviously be the more badass approach. And I agree with you; Fury could totally do it by himself. I'm not sure how that would translate into him taking back SHIELD, though. I mean, I doubt they'd just give it back to him, even after saving their asses.

[TheCorpulent1]

True. But maybe if it were a really public affair broadcast on TV the world over (orchestrated thus by Fury as well, of course) the public could make their respective nations' elected officials use their power in the UN to lean on SHIELD and force them to take Fury back. After all, if he makes Tony look incompetent enough and himself look badass enough, you know people are gonna be wondering "Why the **** isn't this sexy, grade-A can of awesome not running the show?"

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, I don't know. That might not fly as well as we'd want it to. I keep picturing Ennis' Fury from the Punisher MAX series. The one who honestly believes it's his right to control SHIELD. I love it. :up:

[CaptainCanada]

Eh, I'd rather he not go back there for a while. While at SHIELD, he invariably just becomes a desk jockey who never solves the problems himself, unless he has his own series, and those never last. The underground Fury is cooler, even if in either case his role is mainly Mr. Exposition.

[TheCorpulent1]

Someone needs to give Fury a mini-series to remind the unenlightened why he's badass.

[PhotoJones]

Lee Weeks art?

[TheCorpulent1]

Always.

[PhotoJones]

Brubaker/Rucka script?

[roach]

Someone needs to give Fury a mini-series to remind the unenlightened why he's badass.

written by Tom Clancy

[TheCorpulent1]

Brubaker/Rucka script?
I would have a geyser-like orgasm.

[PhotoJones]

Why aren't we in charge?

[TheCorpulent1]

The world may never know.

[PhotoJones]

Jesus, I'm literally salivating over this fake Nick Fury mini. Steve Epting on covers. Christ, stop me now.

[roach]

Why aren't we in charge?

'cause we dont come up with such classic gems as the head demon wants to cure Aunt May in exchange for Peter and MJ's wedding vows:whatever:

[PhotoJones]

Anyone want to take a guess at Weeks' favorite character?

http://members.aol.com/inkdropinc/images/Fury100.jpg

[roach]

Marvel....make This Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheCorpulent1]

Anyone want to take a guess at Weeks' favorite character?

http://members.aol.com/inkdropinc/images/Fury100.jpg
Christ, that's even prettier than Weeks' usual art.

[PhotoJones]

Which is saying a LOT.

[Dread]

I think so. They're not only worthy, but I think they're pretty plausible, considering Colossus' personality. His only reason for leaving Russia in the first place has because Xavier convinced him that the world needed his powers. It's not that far from "With great power, comes great responsibility," actually. Maybe Colossus feels that somewhere along the line he lost sight of that and needs to put his abilities to good use for the greater good of all Earth's inhabitants, and not just it's mutant community.

It could be a great character progression for Colossus; one that's much needed, in my opinion.

However Casey does it, I just hope he starts writing Colossus as living up to his full potential. I think we're all tired of seeing him be comics' wussiest strong man.

Yes, we are all very tired, or at least I am.

The problem of course is the "why now?" factor. As in, if Colossus suddenly wants to use his powers as a hero, why did he wait until now to join some random super team? I mean, yeah, Messiah Complex is a downer, but the X-Men have been privvy to bleak downers every other month, and Colossus has lived through most of 'em. What makes now so special? That will be the challenge, one of 'em.

I just hope I'm not putting more thought into this than Casey. :(

We'd probably have some more insight to Colossus' character if Astonishing X-Men didn't come out quarterly now. I hope Casey kicks some ass with Colossus, too. Honestly, the strength divide between him and She-Hulk isn't very great at all. If Casey just started writing him as She-Hulk's equal, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Chalk it up to Ord's experiments or a second mutation that boosts his strength; either way, I think it's high time that Colossus took his place amongst the top-tier powerhouses alongside most of the other super-teams' powerhouses. The Avengers had Thor and now the Sentry, the Defenders had the Hulk, the Fantastic Four have the Thing (whom Slott made class 100)--the X-Men are really lagging behind if their absolute strongest is only a 90-tonner.

Astonishing would not have helped Colossus. Whedon admitted in WIZARD interviews that Piotr is the hardest of the cast for him to write, so Piotr is simply "Kitty's boyfriend". He literally has nothing else to do in AXM but be Kitty's boyfriend.

As for "the strength divide" between She-Hulk and Colossus, classically it has usually been a 5 ton difference. The last time the Official Marvel Handbook gave a concrete number as to their strength classes was 1989, where they had Colossus at 70 tons and She-Hulk at 75. The 2004-2007 era Handbooks have usually been more vague about exact Strength classes, leaving things to the vague "Power Ratings" bar. Colossus, as of X-MEN 2005, was listed at 6, which is I believe "75-100 tons", which is a wide range. She-Hulk, as of the WWH Handbook released this summer, is at the highest at 7, which is "in excess of 100 tons", which is beyond 100 tons. The logic behind it is that Slott had Jennifer Walters work out in her human form and it translated into her She-Hulk form.

People hate Ultimate these days, but at least they actively used to show Colossus working out; 616, that is rare, unless you count Danger Room simulations.

If Casey wants to make Colossus stronger, just have him work out in his normal form as Piotr, like Jen did. Maybe she can even give him pointers on it. Saying Ord's experimentation was behind it is stupid. Why would they actively make him stronger if he was supposed to destroy their world? And I hate secondary mutations. Then Colossus is just Goku, becoming as strong as the story desires.

There is no way Colossus is 95 tons right now. That would make him stronger than the Thing (85 tons) and NOTHING he has EVER done has shown him to be stronger than Ben Grimm. Nothing. Grimm's gone 12 rounds with the Hulk many times. Colossus never has. Grimm managed to overcome the Champion of the Universe, while Colossus got tossed with ease. Colossus would be LUCKY to be 85 tons with him. Casey could go with Superman's "holding back" baloney, but that wouldn't work because then there'd have been a million threats Colossus could have overcome these last 3 years.

Did anyone read that WWH: X-Men mini? I remember someone mentioning that Colossus didn't do squat against the Hulk.

The Hulk broke his arms. While he was in armored form.

That's basically how it went. The Astonishing X-Men interrupt the Hulk in the process of beating on the New X-Men, Colossus grapples with him for a while, Colossus' arms go "snap!", and Colossus just kind of shuffles off while the Hulk deals with other characters.

Hulk was nice enough to say Colossus would have been a good opponent for him in Hulk's classic form.

I read WWH: X-MEN. Colossus was in numerious battle shots with the Hulk, often hammering at him with other various X-Men at his side hacking away too, like Emma Frost. When the "arm breaker" scene happens, Hulk has managed to get the other X-Men away from them and that was Piotr's chance to battle him solo. Hulk indeed goes, basically, "before I got jacked on Sakaar, you might have given me a decent fight", which you can take a few ways. Frankly, no lone X-person seemed to make Hulk break a sweat beyond Strong Guy and maybe Juggernaut. And even those weren't for that long. Even Wolverine got jobbed (granted, he always should get jobbed by Hulk. I mean, c'mon). But, yeah, Colossus didn't last any longer than Rockslide when it got one-on-one.

I'm looking forward to it too, but I have a feeling his return is just going to be him suddenly appearing out of nowhere with all the answers to the problem of the Skrull invasion because he secretly discovered them months ago and has been working behind the scenes on something or other to counteract them all this time. That would be horrendously trite.

That's almost exactly what I imagined Bendis was going to do as well. :(

That is exactly how Bendis ended SECRET WAR, and if Bendis is known for anything, it is that he has never found anything he has written, good, bad, or mediorce, unworthy of duplication.

I'd actually rather see Fury just do the deed, take the Skrulls down, and make Tony and SHIELD look like complete douchebags, since he could do--alone and underground--what they couldn't with virtually unlimited resources.

I'm not sure I would want to see that. Then, what happens? We're back to a status quo. Besides, the "embarrass Tony" card has been played so often since CW ended that it almost has lost it's value, like having "someone outjerking Batman" or something at DC.

It would be hypocritical for SHIELD to take Fury back because he was canned because of SECRET WAR and doing underhanded **** for "the greater good". Love or hate Tony, that is all he's ever done, too. So has Dr. Doom, but that is beside the point. In a way it might be MORE interesting if Stark and Fury had to share some sort of authority. They'd either learn to work together or kill each other, and that might be more interesting than simply returning to status quo.

I mean, people whine about how GOTHAM CENTRAL ended because of that.

Nick Fury can be a bad ass and help save the day, but let's not make him Jesus Christ. Especially since you know eventually some other scandal will come anyway. It always does.

[PhotoJones]

Why not make him Jesus Christ?

[Dread]

Why not make him Jesus Christ?

That's boring.

Besides, at Marvel, Bendis is Jesus Christ. I am sure there is a Book of Bendis manifesto that floats around the bullpen and they have to pray to him before lunch breaks. ;)

[TheCorpulent1]

What happened with Gotham Central? I thought the series ended well enough at the time. :confused:

[PhotoJones]

That's boring.

Besides, at Marvel, Bendis is Jesus Christ. I am sure there is a Book of Bendis manifesto that floats around the bullpen and they have to pray to him before lunch breaks.

How's that boring? One guy with the experience, smarts and underground resources who's capable of pulling off the impossible? That's not boring, by my standards.

[Dread]

What happened with Gotham Central? I thought the series ended well enough at the time. :confused:

People complained that Gordon was Commish again and whatever new GCPD characters was mostly marginalized.

How's that boring? One guy with the experience, smarts and underground resources who's capable of pulling off the impossible? That's not boring, by my standards.

It seems predictable, like, "Of COURSE Fury has to be head of SHIELD again, and Iron Man back to status quo by May, 2008, in time for his movie". Plus, like I said, Bendis has played that card before. Fury, or at least an LMD of him, waltzed in and saved the heroes and NYC from being blown up at the end of Secret War, and then did the usual Bendis speach about how the heroes were all too stupid and useless to do any real good in the world, which is a prevailing theme in Bendis stories.

It is bad enough that Fury and some of his "secret locations with stockpiled weapons" have used as plot devices for a variety of books, including CAPTAIN AMERICA, PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL, CIVIL WAR, CIVIL WAR: X-MEN, and no telling where else. I am not saying Brubaker has done so poorly, not at all. But even a good plot device is a plot device, and it can be overdone.

Bendis has his habit of having some character out of the blue give a "hey, stupid!" speach to explain the plot of his stories and then solve it with a lot of talking. While I am expecting SECRET INVASION to be a failure, I'd at least like to see a more original failure.

You can tell good stories with Nick Fury in the trenches, rather than him at the head of SHIELD barking into computer screens for the millionth time.

[TheCorpulent1]

While I agree that you certainly can tell good Fury stories outside of his being director of SHIELD, the problem is that no one will. He's been out of the director's chair for, what, 2 or 3 years now? The most we've seen of him is a few cameos in Captain America and some other comics, many of those actually being only LMDs he commandeered. Seems like reinstating him as director of SHIELD is the only way anyone's gonna care enough about him to actually use him for more than bit parts.

[PhotoJones]

It is bad enough that Fury and some of his "secret locations with stockpiled weapons" have used as plot devices for a variety of books, including CAPTAIN AMERICA, PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL, CIVIL WAR, CIVIL WAR: X-MEN, and no telling where else. I am not saying Brubaker has done so poorly, not at all. But even a good plot device is a plot device, and it can be overdone.

How was that done poorly or overdone? It was just about the only part of CW that made sense. If Cap had to go underground, of course Fury would offer up his safehouses. If he didn't, I'd be *****ing about it.

You can tell good stories with Nick Fury in the trenches, rather than him at the head of SHIELD barking into computer screens for the millionth time.

And you can tell good stories with Nick Fury as the head of SHIELD without having him bark orders at the computer screen. :up:

[Dread]

How was that done poorly or overdone? It was just about the only part of CW that made sense. If Cap had to go underground, of course Fury would offer up his safehouses. If he didn't, I'd be *****ing about it.

And you can tell good stories with Nick Fury as the head of SHIELD without having him bark orders at the computer screen. :up:

Yeah, but after that it seems anyone who needed a hidden facility and a few guns "talked to Nick Fury".

I'm just not in a hurry to return Fury to the desk quite yet. Or if so, sharing some duties with Iron Man creates some interesting tension.

[TheCorpulent1]

Having two highly arrogant personalities sharing duties as head of the premier espionage/paramilitary agency in the world wouldn't create interesting tension. It would create manufactured tension in a wildly stupid scenario that makes absolutely no sense. You can't have two guys like Stark and Fury quibbling about control over SHIELD with equal authority--it'd paralyze the whole agency.

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, but after that it seems anyone who needed a hidden facility and a few guns "talked to Nick Fury".

Who, besides Cap's Secret Avengers and Bucky has Fury been in contact with?

Having two highly arrogant personalities sharing duties as head of the premier espionage/paramilitary agency in the world wouldn't create interesting tension. It would create manufactured tension in a wildly stupid scenario that makes absolutely no sense. You can't have two guys like Stark and Fury quibbling about control over SHIELD with equal authority--it'd paralyze the whole agency.

Besides, everyone in SHIELD respects Fury a crap-ton more than Tony. It would be completely pointless for Tony to stick around as a co-director when even knows that no one would take orders from him without first consulting Fury first.

[Dread]

Who, besides Cap's Secret Avengers and Bucky has Fury been in contact with?

Punisher, for one, has used his bases. They came up in CW: X-MEN. Brubaker uses Fury every 5 panels in CA. It makes the most sense there, but I am just keeping score. I wouldn't be surprised if it popped up in other titles.

Besides, everyone in SHIELD respects Fury a crap-ton more than Tony. It would be completely pointless for Tony to stick around as a co-director when even knows that no one would take orders from him without first consulting Fury first.

To me, having Fury come in, melodramatically save the day, take over SHIELD again and everying is back to the way it was before CW is just the sort of thing we make fun of Marvel for, doing these "shocking" things and then lacking the balls to carry them through for long, so they seem pointless. The reason OMD is being lambasted, not only for how stupid it all is, is because we KNOW that MJ and Peter won't be broken up beyond 3 years, if that. If they really want Tony running SHIELD for a bit, then run with it for at least beyond a year.

Don't get me wrong; Nick Fury coming in and taking names is awesome. But let's not go so far up Fury's rear in worshipping his awesomeness that we fail to make it compelling. Even James Bond needs to be challenged.

[PhotoJones]

Punisher, for one, has used his bases. They came up in CW: X-MEN. Brubaker uses Fury every 5 panels in CA. It makes the most sense there, but I am just keeping score. I wouldn't be surprised if it popped up in other titles.

I believe the safehouse in CW: X-Men was not, in fact, Nick Fury related. Are you refering to the place the 198 escaped to? Also, I don't recall that Castle was using Fury's safehouses, either. I know he knew of one, and that's how he got Spider-Man there, but he's got his own safehouses all over the city, as does Clarke.

Don't get me wrong; Nick Fury coming in and taking names is awesome. But let's not go so far up Fury's rear in worshipping his awesomeness that we fail to make it compelling. Even James Bond needs to be challenged.

Who says he wouldn't be challanged? :confused:

[Dread]

I believe the safehouse in CW: X-Men was not, in fact, Nick Fury related. Are you refering to the place the 198 escaped to? Also, I don't recall that Castle was using Fury's safehouses, either. I know he knew of one, and that's how he got Spider-Man there, but he's got his own safehouses all over the city, as does Clarke.

Who says he wouldn't be challanged? :confused:

I don't have my comics in front of me, so the top part I'll drop because I am not exactly sure.

I'm saying that Fury just waltzing in, busting **** up and everyone going, "Okay, run SHIELD now" is pretty much the most predictable thing ever. People are counting down the months before Fury runs SHIELD again. I'm saying let's not quite be THAT predictable.

[PhotoJones]

But that's not what I suggested, and to my knowledge, is not what we were debating. I never said that Fury would waltz in, save the day and have SHIELD handed back to him. On the contrary, I specifically said that that would be stupid.

I'm saying that Fury make contact with SHIELD, dangle the solution in front of them in exchange for full immunity and control of SHIELD and then save the day. He's a manipulating bastard. He would essentially be manipulating his way back into SHIELD against the wishes of just about everyone in a position of power.

[Dread]

But that ends with Fury running SHIELD, and we're at a loss as to why any of the stuff with Maria Hill or Stark running it was in any way worth paying attention to.

[PhotoJones]

Huh? Who's at a loss? :confused:

[Dread]

Marvel has been making a big thing of the fact that Fury isn't running SHIELD anymore with Maria Hill and then that was set up so she would **** up and Stark would get the helm. Then if we just go back to Fury running things again all hunky dorey, whether through manipulation or Dragon Balls or whatever, then you risk the situation where a lot of people will feel the last few years of SHIELD interweavings were a waste of time. And then that undermines any other "shocking change" stories that Marvel is so fond of. It already does. No body ever believes any change, good, bad, or mediocre, will last.

[PhotoJones]

Who says Fury would be running things all "hunky dorey"? There's potential for some serious drama there that I think you're choosing to overlook for the sake of your argument. The UN would certainly not take kindly to the fact that Fury weaseled his way back into SHIELD command. They'd be looking for any reason to oust him. Fury doesn't do well under close scrutiny like that. He's the guy who tells you to look the other way, and his track record of success gives him the benefit of the doubt. How does Fury command SHIELD, then? No more wetworks? No more illegal missions? How would that affect his job performance? Would he become his own worst enemy? What does Tony Stark have to say about all of this?

It doesn't have to be a return to the old status quo, which is something you're assuming. I'd do it as an organic progression. Tony and Maria don't have to go away.

[Dread]

I am not choosing to overlook it. I am believing that they WILL be overlooked. The fact of the matter is even when Fury was booted from SHIELD for nearly a year, we still had "Fury runs SHIELD" scenes popping up in other books that had to be explained later as LMD's. If Fury is back under the chair of command, regardless of what conditions that entails or how many enemies he would have internally, it would be overlooked. The only way it wouldn't would be if Fury then got a mini series, but his sales have never sustained one, so that won't happen.

Fury would have the loyalty of the grunts, and they would help him undermine whatever restrictions he had. And that would lead to Daisy coming back with her annoying smug attitude, anyway.

Plus, part of me is dreading that SECRET INVASION will consist of several chapters of the heroes infighting, failing to act in any way cohesive or competant until Fury comes out of nowhere and goes, "hey, dimwits, here is the Gameshark code for victory, gold brickers!"

[PhotoJones]

It doesn't have to be overlooked. There are more books now that deal with SHIELD on a regular basis than ever before. It's not just some organization the pops up when the story is convenient anymore. A lot of the time, it is the story. And sure, there's always the possibility that stuff like I suggested would get overlooked, but that doesn't make it not plausible or interesting. It just means that Marvel once again botched something simple. I get the impression that you'd rather go with something easily executed than risk not nailing something incredibly cool. I'd go with the best idea every time. :up:

[Dread]

It doesn't have to be overlooked. There are more books now that deal with SHIELD on a regular basis than ever before. It's not just some organization the pops up when the story is convenient anymore. A lot of the time, it is the story. And sure, there's always the possibility that stuff like I suggested would get overlooked, but that doesn't make it not plausible or interesting. It just means that Marvel once again botched something simple. I get the impression that you'd rather go with something easily executed than risk not nailing something incredibly cool. I'd go with the best idea every time. :up:

Comic book editors and writers prefer a longtime status quo. My position is that based on what Marvel has displayed through, I don't know, it's entire history, returning Fury to the bench too quickly is the sort of situation that most likely will be botched, mishandled, made too mundane too quickly.

I'm sure there are those in Marvel who wanted Fury back there yesterday.

The better the idea, the greater the chance of it being botched. That is how this business works.

Besides, if Fury comes back too fast, I'll just be able to look at all my comics with Maria or Stark in charge and go, "waste!" ;)

[PhotoJones]

I'm saying, "No, you wouldn't have to." If Fury returned, in no way, shape or form does that mean Maria or Tony have to go away. You're just completely ignoring a million story possibilities and I have no idea why.

[Dread]

I'm saying, "No, you wouldn't have to." If Fury returned, in no way, shape or form does that mean Maria or Tony have to go away. You're just completely ignoring a million story possibilities and I have no idea why.

I'm ignoring them because they would get ignored. The powers-that-be would just settle into the status quo and beyond 7 months those million possibilities would be shoved under the rug, especially when it came time to plan the next event. I just see too many ways that a "Fury blows back into running SHIELD again too soon" story can underwhelm or backfire. You're choosing to ignore track record and believe, like I guess many fans do, "this time will be different".

I'm too much like an adult, I guess. I no longer believe in what past actions deam the least likely.

Besides, have we really seen "Fury from the trenches", or has it been Fury telling other people what to do while he hides in a cave somewhere? I'd rather see THAT.

[PhotoJones]

Dread, why do you read and care about comics if you "know" that no matter how good the premise or idea is, it's going to get botched? Aside from the fact that it's just not true, how do you have that mentality? To put sich stock into something that you think is ultimately going to fail just sounds so...stupid.

[Dread]

Dread, why do you read and care about comics if you "know" that no matter how good the premise or idea is, it's going to get botched? Aside from the fact that it's just not true, how do you have that mentality? To put sich stock into something that you think is ultimately going to fail just sounds so...stupid.

Because sometimes I have faith in something good coming, based on creators, or past elements in favor, or something I dare to hope.

Based by the fact that it took Marvel's writers years to collectively remember Fury wasn't head of SHIELD anymore, I am just not optimistic about them all handling a Fury transition back to leadership well. Unless, again, he had a mini or launch series about it. But as his last few didn't sell, I doubt that would happen. I am not as pessimistic about EVERY idea. Just some in particular based on past factors. This is one of them. Much as I fear Colossus being botched in THE LAST DEFENDERS, because he has only been botched in nearly every other X-book for ages now.

Plus, comics are escapism for me. They're a world where the very ideals and morals that are used against you in the real world and lead to nothing are of some real importance. The real world is a place that teaches you to be selfless, but rewards the selfish, to be merciful, but rewards the merciless, and so on. Superhero comics at least offer a world that deviates from that. Or at least it does sometimes.

[PhotoJones]

I don't understand what comics being a form of escapism has to do with dooming an idea before it's even confirmed.

[Dread]

I don't understand what comics being a form of escapism has to do with dooming an idea before it's even confirmed.

Certain ideas, based on how those ideas, or similar ones, were handled, can be reasonably predicted as "doomed".

You, on the other hand, are of the type who seems to believe, "This time will be different".

I at least need reasonable reasons to presume that.

[PhotoJones]

I think you need to stop making assumptions and go back and read what I actually said. I never said this time would be different. I specifically said that it very well might not be. All I did was give my opinion of how Fury's return should be handled. I obviously have no idea what they're going to do.

[Dread]

I think you need to stop making assumptions and go back and read what I actually said. I never said this time would be different. I specifically said that it very well might not be. All I did was give my opinion of how Fury's return should be handled. I obviously have no idea what they're going to do.

Fair enough.

I just like being surprised sometimes. Not that I have any faith in SI at this point, but Fury coming back in to work his way to head of SHIELD by the end really wouldn't be a surprise. Which means it would have to rely on the execution. Which means relying on Bendis. Which is like relying on Britney Spears not to make a ***** out of herself.

[PhotoJones]

I have no doubt that Bendis is going to disappoint me one way or another with SI. It's how it's handled in the regular ongoing titles that interests me.

[Dread]

I have no doubt that Bendis is going to disappoint me one way or another with SI. It's how it's handled in the regular ongoing titles that interests me.

Like Civil War?

"The main series where everything counts had screw ups you could drive a truck through, but DAMN, some of those tie-in's were sweet!" :o

Actually, F that. CW was more entertaining than any of Bendis' events just by sheer action. I'm fearing Skrulls will simply be the cure-all. Instead of needing clever writing to improve or fix a character, just bust out a Skrull and say the real deal was kidnapped for 2-30 years.

ANNIHILATION and it's sequal, and heck, even WWH, have made me in the mood for an event that can stand on it's own. SECRET INVASION will fail. Sniffle.

But, hey, this is a CAPTAIN AMERICA topic! How do you think SI will effect this title, if in any way?

[PhotoJones]

I doubt it'll have any affect on it, to be honest. Marvel may make Brubaker do a couple of tie-ins (which I'm sure would be entertaining), but I don't forsee any lasting impressions.

[Darthphere]

You guys are awesome.

[PhotoJones]

What the hell is that avatar?

[Darthphere]

Nick Fury Steranko cover. :huh:

[PhotoJones]

Is it really? I'm on my laptop and it makes everything smaller than my desktop.

[Darthphere]

Is it really? I'm on my laptop and it makes everything smaller than my desktop.

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

[Dread]

I doubt it'll have any affect on it, to be honest. Marvel may make Brubaker do a couple of tie-ins (which I'm sure would be entertaining), but I don't forsee any lasting impressions.

Yeah, I don't either. But I don't mind, either. ;)

[PhotoJones]

:confused:

What I'm trying to say is that your avatar is too small to be able to fully appreciate the awesomeness of Steranko.

[Darthphere]

What I'm trying to say is that your avatar is too small to be able to fully appreciate the awesomeness of Steranko.

Anything would be too small.:csad:

Steranko should do Cap/Iron man covers.

[PhotoJones]

Does he do anything comics related anymore?

[Darthphere]

Nope. There's always rumors and whispers but nothing ever materializes.

[PhotoJones]

That's a shame. For us. Probably not for Steranko, though. :(

[Darthphere]

I'd love to see him do some covers, or even promotional images from time to time. Hell, I'd love to see him make a quick sketch on toilet paper.

[PhotoJones]

I want Steranko to do a quick sketch on my body. I'd go straight to the nearest tattoo shop and get that **** inked. :up:

[Darthphere]

I want Steranko to do a quick sketch on my body. I'd go straight to the nearest tattoo shop and get that **** inked. :up:

What if it's a giant penis?

[PhotoJones]

It would still be a Steranko drawn giant penis. :o

[Red]

Beast Wars. Specifically, this really great multi-episode arc where the Maximals' leader Optimus Primal was thought dead, their chief scientist was occupied with other stuff, and the three remaining Maximals were all that was left to defend the base from like 8 or 10 Predacons. The av is from right before the final shootout. The Mainframe animators decided to go with a spaghetti western feel, really playing up the hopeless odds. I loved it. :D

You forgot Tigertron and Airrazor :csad:

[Kraven]

When I was looking through the amazon pages for the trades for this series, I noticed the tenth issue wasn't collected in any of the trades (or so it said). Was there a reason for this, or is that a mistake? The reason I ask is that I'm going to look into this series, but I didn't want to dish all the money out for the Omnibus.

[Oh Snap!]

It's the House of M issue.

[Darthphere]

It's the House of M issue, it's probably collected in a separate trade.

[Kraven]

Hmm, I never read House of M but I know about it. Should I still look into it, or does it not have too much significance to the rest of Brubaker's run?

[Darthphere]

Skipable.

[CaptainCanada]

It's an okay story, kind of similar to "For The Man Who Has Everything": Cap gets everything he wants (he and Bucky don't get put on ice, they capture Hitler and kill the Skull, he marries Sharon's aunt, becomes an astronaut) but things don't work out the way he imagined they would.

[TheCorpulent1]

It was a good little one-off, but it definitely wasn't pertinent to the overall story arc. More a tangent for the sake of appeasing the crossover gods.
You forgot Tigertron and Airrazor :csad:
They were off doing whatever it is they did for 90% of the series. I barely even count them as Maximals. :o

[DoomRulz]

Captain America aside, Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to all of you and your families :yay: Keep the shields hanging high True Believers!

Your friend,
DoomRulz (Sam)

[TheCorpulent1]

A replica of Cap's shield would be a kick-ass Christmas present. :up:

[Upset Spideyfan]

If I got that and a Dalek it would be a perfect Christmas.

[TheCorpulent1]

A Dalek replica that doubles as a functional trash can... it'd be a dream come true.

[Xofenroht]

R2-D2 vs. Dalek...who would win?

[yenaled]

Riker.

[TheCorpulent1]

R2 would destroy the entire Dalek race, but somehow the Daleks would miraculously survive anyway.

[3dman27]

A replica of Cap's shield would be a kick-ass Christmas present. :up:

so it would also a silve rcaptain america shield ring

[Kitsune]

A Dalek replica that doubles as a functional trash can... it'd be a dream come true.

Mini Dalek Salt and pepper shakers

[TheCorpulent1]

Also awesome.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Mini Dalek Salt and pepper shakers

That's inspired.

[Vanguard07]

what's a Dalek?

[TheCorpulent1]

Garbage-can-looking mother****ers who cause Doctor Who no end of trouble and always--always--find some way to come back, no matter how completely their entire race seems to be destroyed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/NewDalek1.jpg

[The Geek Vault]

I'm thinking of buying a Cap shield at comic con since the first day is my b-day!

[Vanguard07]

Garbage-can-looking mother****ers who cause Doctor Who no end of trouble and always--always--find some way to come back, no matter how completely their entire race seems to be destroyed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/NewDalek1.jpg

Ah.... never got into Dr Who. After seeing this I'm glad for having missed it.

[TheCorpulent1]

They're actually pretty cool villains in spite of looking like trash bins. They're pretty much the most evil, destructive race in the galaxy--so much so that even the Doctor's race, the Time Lords, are all terrified of them, even though the Time Lords possess astronomical power through their highly advanced science. The Daleks wiped almost all of the Time Lords out in a huge war across time, in fact.

[BrianWilly]

...I'm going to start watching that now.

[Anubis]

The way they talk is what really makes them cool. "EXTERMINATE!!!" Oh man, I'm such a f**king nerd. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

Ha, yeah. They sound like crazy crackheads yelling through a megaphone.

[LouFerignoDemon]

They're actually pretty cool villains in spite of looking like trash bins. They're pretty much the most evil, destructive race in the galaxy--so much so that even the Doctor's race, the Time Lords, are all terrified of them, even though the Time Lords possess astronomical power through their highly advanced science. The Daleks wiped almost all of the Time Lords out in a huge war across time, in fact.


Time paradox? No. :o

[Dread]

To get things back on track, I wonder if Brubaker will ever have some of the many other "super-soldier" attempted characters return to haunt the lives of his cast, especially with the genuine article dead. Off the top of my head I was thinking Protocide, who was somewhat generic when he debuted but if Brubaker were so inclined could probably be used in an interesting way. There've been others, of course.

[3dman27]

good thinking dread
what about the super-sailor from the catpain america /falcon mini series

[GNR]

-Sharon is still pregnant
-Skull is waiting for a "body" to be ready
-Doom's mystery machine is still being worked on by Zola
-Kronas security forces are prepping for some attack
-Buck is on his way to becoming the new Cap

...gotta love this book,so much going on,so much left hanging,lots of progression,gorgeous Epting/Guice art

[Dread]

good thinking dread
what about the super-sailor from the catpain america /falcon mini series

If that was Anti-Cap, he's dead.

I could imagine Brubaker running with Protocide. He was a military man duped by AIM (I believe) into becoming a super-soldier and tricked into thinking Cap and the U.S. were the enemy. He eventually saw that he'd been lied to since the beginning and blew up the AIM base, but managed to escape. He was physically stronger than Cap, but wasn't a match for his skill & experience, and was probably more aggressive. I could imagine Protocide being duped/brainwashed by AIM or Skull, or even him arriving and being added to the supporting cast if Brubaker so desired. There've been quite a few stabs at re-creating Cap and as the dawn of the "New Cap" approaches it might be interesting to play around with that in some way.

-Sharon is still pregnant
-Skull is waiting for a "body" to be ready
-Doom's mystery machine is still being worked on by Zola
-Kronas security forces are prepping for some attack
-Buck is on his way to becoming the new Cap

...gotta love this book,so much going on,so much left hanging,lots of progression,gorgeous Epting/Guice art

Exactly. Thanks for the Cliff's Notes. ;)

[Xofenroht]

Oh man...I can't wait.

[Red]

-Skull is waiting for a "body" to be ready

Anyone get then feeling Red Skull's gonna use the same method he used before of transferring his consciences into another body? Perhaps a clone of Cap again?

[3dman27]

If that was Anti-Cap, he's dead.

I could imagine Brubaker running with Protocide. He was a military man duped by AIM (I believe) into becoming a super-soldier and tricked into thinking Cap and the U.S. were the enemy. He eventually saw that he'd been lied to since the beginning and blew up the AIM base, but managed to escape. He was physically stronger than Cap, but wasn't a match for his skill & experience, and was probably more aggressive. I could imagine Protocide being duped/brainwashed by AIM or Skull, or even him arriving and being added to the supporting cast if Brubaker so desired. There've been quite a few stabs at re-creating Cap and as the dawn of the "New Cap" approaches it might be interesting to play around with that in some way.



Exactly. Thanks for the Cliff's Notes. ;)

i WAS reffering to the anti-cap thanks dread

[LexCorp]

I just got the all of the Ulitmates comic books, the Superhuman and Grand Theft America ones etc... for xmas... so that should prove a good read.

Looks like it has some decent Cap America stuff going on.

[Brian Braddock]

If that was Anti-Cap, he's dead.

I could imagine Brubaker running with Protocide. He was a military man duped by AIM (I believe) into becoming a super-soldier and tricked into thinking Cap and the U.S. were the enemy. He eventually saw that he'd been lied to since the beginning and blew up the AIM base, but managed to escape. He was physically stronger than Cap, but wasn't a match for his skill & experience, and was probably more aggressive. I could imagine Protocide being duped/brainwashed by AIM or Skull, or even him arriving and being added to the supporting cast if Brubaker so desired. There've been quite a few stabs at re-creating Cap and as the dawn of the "New Cap" approaches it might be interesting to play around with that in some way.



Exactly. Thanks for the Cliff's Notes. ;)

Yeah, thanks for the re-cap (no pun intended).

I remember reading the issue where Protocide almost killed U.S.A.gent with his sheild. I kinda got side-tracked after that and never found out what happened in that arc.

[PhotoJones]

I just got the all of the Ulitmates comic books, the Superhuman and Grand Theft America ones etc... for xmas... so that should prove a good read.

Looks like it has some decent Cap America stuff going on.

Have you read the Ultimate Captain America, though? He's a turd.

[Red]

Cap #33 was a good read. My only problem was the Bucky/Iron Man fight. Bucky's good but Tony outclasses him.

I just hope Tony shows Bucky how to start a myspace page.

[PhotoJones]

Tony outpowers Bucky, but Bucky's a much better tactician and fighter. If you can believe Steve could take Tony down, what's your hang up with Bucky being able to do it?

[Red]

The difference is no matter how skilled Bucky is he's not Steve. I can accept Steve being able to take Tony down because; he's fought along side him for years and because of that he knows how Tony thinks and what to expect.

[Darthphere]

Cap #33 was a good read. My only problem was the Bucky/Iron Man fight. Bucky's good but Tony outclasses him.

I just hope Tony shows Bucky how to start a myspace page.

Bucky: Tony, what does "lol" mean?

[Vanguard07]

The difference is no matter how skilled Bucky is he's not Steve. I can accept Steve being able to take Tony down because; he's fought along side him for years and because of that he knows how Tony thinks and what to expect.

The difference is Bucky has advantages that Cap doesnt.
His superhuman indestructible robot arm being one of them. The fact that Bucky is a stone cold killer and is willing to use tactics that Cap never would being another.

Also the fact that Tony wasnt willing to hurt Bucky was probably another big factor (although admittedly most of the time Cap would have had that same advantage)

All in all I saw no problem with that fight.

[SpideyInATree]

It was pretty obvious who was going to fill those shoes. If it wasn't who it was than I would have been surprised. But it was a good read but I thought things could have moved a little faster than they did. They should start adding more pages to comics so that we can fit a little more story into them.

I am looking forward to next issue to see the new guy in action with the new suit.

[Xofenroht]

I think they told a good enough amount of story with what they had. There are multiple plots spinning around right now, with about as many characters.

It'd be good to remember, for this Winter Soldier vs. Iron Man fight, that not only did Bucky train alongside Cap but he was also later groomed for things like this...maybe worse situations than this. Besides, given how that fight turned out in the end, it's not like Tony was out for the count.

[Apprentice]

It'd be good to remember, for this Winter Soldier vs. Iron Man fight, that not only did Bucky train alongside Cap but he was also later groomed for things like this...maybe worse situations than this. Besides, given how that fight turned out in the end, it's not like Tony was out for the count.

Not to mention that Bucky's probably been formulating strategies to defeat Tony since CW began.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't get my comics until next Tuesday, but did they mention why Tony didn't just shut down Bucky's arm, thus negating his one major advantage over Steve and making him a one-armed wonder all at once?

[GNR]

Nope.

[Sawyer]

SO did Fury give Bucky that arm?

[TheCorpulent1]

Technically, the Russians gave Bucky his arm. Fury just fixed it up or replaced it after it got messed up earlier in the series, and he replaced the red star with a white one to signify Bucky's change in allegiance.

And gave Bucky a haircut.

[Xofenroht]

I don't get my comics until next Tuesday, but did they mention why Tony didn't just shut down Bucky's arm, thus negating his one major advantage over Steve and making him a one-armed wonder all at once?

Yeah they sort of did. Or at least it was alluded to. I don't have the comic on hand, but I remember Tony mentioning something about it.

You'll enjoy a page in particular that involves the arm being used. They even address Nick Fury having something to do with its design.

[Dread]

Reposting my review:

CAPTAIN AMERICA #33: Brubaker proving once again that he is one of a rare breed of writer who can write an "event" in his own book, from reviving Bucky to killing Cap and now setting up a new one, that is a change to the status quo and yet he develops it naturally and organically, so it doesn't feel like a shameless stunt. It feels like a very good story. Who'd have thunk? Guice continues to provide quality inking for Epting, filling Perkins' shoes well. I am getting tired of covers depicting someone fighting Iron Man, as they seem to pop up once a month since CW, but I'll forgive this one because the characters actually DO fight within (unlike the cover of, say, NOVA #2), and it is another one of Brubaker & Epting's great brawls. I'm not sure what sort of relationship they have with pacing fights; after last issue, Brubaker was quick to give Epting a lot of credit for specifics, but damn, this issue had a great one. I am a sucker for good action sequences and this run has rewarded that many times. We also learn that Bucky can control his cybernetic arm from afar, which he uses to escape his SHIELD cell and bring the fight to Iron Man himself. To his credit, Stark doesn't want to fight Bucky and only does so half-heartedly, but Bucky still captilizes to force a draw. The sequence has to be read to be done justice, I can't describe it. Part of me smirked when Stark shows Bucky the letter he got from Cap and claims, "I would never fake something like this", because he's faked that and more in NEW AVENGERS and other titles since CW. But, that is the fault of other writers and not Brubaker, who at least writes Iron Man as someone who isn't a complete heel. It also makes some of the promotion for the next issue funny, because it would only fool someone who hasn't been reading the title; Brubaker makes no bones about setting up Bucky as the new Capt. America, and that is precisely why it works. Because he has taken the time to build it up. Good stories cannot be rushed. Brubaker's pace is one that isn't always the fastest, and can drag at times, but usually feels natural enough so even the biggest shocks go down well. The only downside is that Alex Ross design; I have said it a billion times, but I'd have trusted Epting to come up with a better design, but I don't run Marvel. At least Epting draws that Ross design as well as he can. To those who forgot, Bucky DID steal Cap's shield in issue #27 (TKO'ing Black Widow to do so), but didn't take it with him when he went after Lukin/Red Skull a few issues back, so he still has it in storage somewhere. I liked Stark's "you won't let anyone else be the guy", perhaps a sly referral to PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL where Bucky was about to pummel Frank Castle to get him to stop dressing like Cap, only for Castle to surrender the mask/costume anyway. Or that is at least how I saw it. Brubaker is a writer who can do plenty of "Big Surprises", but unlike some other writers who claim to love those, he has the patience to build to them naturally. He's taken almost 3 years to put Bucky in the costume, but it feels so natural and "right" that it comes as a logical progression and not the shocker it is being promoted as. Some could argue Rogers' death also came off that way. The best run Cap's ever had, at least from someone who was never interested in a prior run to give the title a try. In a universe divoid of legacy heroes, Brubaker brought back the best candidate for New Cap that made sense, had similarities, and has amped him up in such a way he is now one of Marvel's coolest characters. Keep up the great work.

Can't add much more 'cept that 2008 will probably be just as cool! Bring on New Cap!

[Stealth_Prime]

Hey people,

Was Marvel so disappointed in Steve Rogers that they had to kill the character off, just to boost ratings? don't tell me the dude's coming right back!!!! If they do, that only validates one thing.....Marvel is the first one to have a revolving door in the realm of death.

[TheCorpulent1]

Would you prefer Steve stay dead? :confused: He'll be back eventually. Meanwhile, Brubaker's telling one of the best stories in comics right now.

[Dread]

Brubaker himself doesn't deny that Steve Rogers could/will return eventually, but claims that wouldn't happen until issue #50 or so, and he doesn't plan to leave beforehand. Technically, if Steve stays dead for 2 years, that'd be twice the time Superman was buried.

But, I have no problems with Bucky leading the show.

As for the Iron Man vs. Bucky battle, I didn't have an issue with it. A major factor was that Iron Man didn't want to hurt Bucky, so he was pulling his punches a lot; Bucky capitlized. His cybernetic arm is tough enough to smash into giant robots, so it does have some kick to it. But, Iron Man was basically going, "You're not hurting me" until the mask came off, and even then he rose his repulsar gauntlets and forced a draw. Bucky has superior reaction time than Stark, too, or at least he should. Extremis aside, Stark isn't a soldier. He was taught by Cap how to fight, but that still doesn't put him in Bucky's lead in terms of reaction time.

[Stealth_Prime]

Brubaker himself doesn't deny that Steve Rogers could/will return eventually, but claims that wouldn't happen until issue #50 or so, and he doesn't plan to leave beforehand. Technically, if Steve stays dead for 2 years, that'd be twice the time Superman was buried.

But, I have no problems with Bucky leading the show.

As for the Iron Man vs. Bucky battle, I didn't have an issue with it. A major factor was that Iron Man didn't want to hurt Bucky, so he was pulling his punches a lot; Bucky capitlized. His cybernetic arm is tough enough to smash into giant robots, so it does have some kick to it. But, Iron Man was basically going, "You're not hurting me" until the mask came off, and even then he rose his repulsar gauntlets and forced a draw. Bucky has superior reaction time than Stark, too, or at least he should. Extremis aside, Stark isn't a soldier. He was taught by Cap how to fight, but that still doesn't put him in Bucky's lead in terms of reaction time.

I agree.....if Stark wins against someone who was both a soldier and sidekick to Cap himself then they might as well add some iron bat ears to Starks gear and call him the Bat-Iron Man.

[TheCorpulent1]

Given Brubaker's retcons, I don't even think "sidekick" is the right name for Bucky. By all indications, Bucky was even more well trained than Steve, since he didn't have the Super-Soldier advantages Steve had. Plus, he was doing a lot more of the actual wetworks. Plus, he received even more training as the Winter Soldier. He's probably a lot more knowledgeable about weapons and lethal tactics than Steve, at the very least. I doubt he could actually outfight Steve one-on-one, but he's gotta be pretty close to even with Steve when you add up the arm, the fact that he learned from one of the most brilliant tactical minds for years, and the generous amount of training he received.

[PhotoJones]

Given Brubaker's retcons, I don't even think "sidekick" is the right name for Bucky. By all indications, Bucky was even more well trained than Steve, since he didn't have the Super-Soldier advantages Steve had. Plus, he was doing a lot more of the actual wetworks. Plus, he received even more training as the Winter Soldier. He's probably a lot more knowledgeable about weapons and lethal tactics than Steve, at the very least. I doubt he could actually outfight Steve one-on-one, but he's gotta be pretty close to even with Steve when you add up the arm, the fact that he learned from one of the most brilliant tactical minds for years, and the generous amount of training he received.

Precisely. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

I almost wrote "even with Steven" in there. I'm glad I stopped myself.

That does bring up a point I've always wondered about, though: Cap's name is always given as "Steve Rogers." Does anyone know if it's short for "Steven" or "Stephen"? :confused:

[PhotoJones]

I'm pretty sure it's "Steven."

[Anubis]

Has anybody ever called him Stevsie?

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm pretty sure it's "Steven."
I was inclined to go with that spelling too, if only to avoid giving Cap and Dr. Strange the exact same name.

[Harlekin]

Maybe Steve isn't short for anything.

[TheCorpulent1]

Bollocks. No one names their kid "Steve" or "Joe." It's always short for Ste(v/ph)en or Joseph.

[Anubis]

Bollocks. No one names their kid "Steve" or "Joe." It's always short for Ste(v/ph)en or Joseph.

My Father was named Freddie. Not Frederick, not even just Fred.

[TheCorpulent1]

Your grandparents are weird. :o

[Anubis]

They were in the deep south. They didn't even have birth certificates. His Birthday may not even be the day we celebrate it on. He was born on that day when the creek flooded.

[TheCorpulent1]

That is some rock-solid record-keeping. :up:

[PhotoJones]

Steve's birth name is Steven Grant Rogers.

[TheCorpulent1]

Huh, that settles it, then.

I hope someone calles him "Steve-O" one day. Like Hawkeye. Really condescendingly. That's totally a Hawkeye thing to do.

[PhotoJones]

I miss Hawkeye. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

But he's being used to such great effect in New Avengers. :confused:

[PhotoJones]

**** you, man.

[TheCorpulent1]

lolz

I wonder if anyone other than Bendis will get the chance to write Hawkeye anytime soon.

[PhotoJones]

No. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

They ought to give Clint an MCP story. Show how he's catching up with life now that, y'know, he's got one again.

[PhotoJones]

I'd be down for that. An outright mini would be best.

[TheCorpulent1]

But Joe Q would probably put the worst team available on it with the worst concept they could cook up and then laugh at us when its sales are terrible and claim that no one really likes Hawkeye.

[PhotoJones]

I like Hawkeye. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

But would you buy his comic if it were written by Chris Claremont and drawn by Rob Liefeld?

[PhotoJones]

No, I wouldn't. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

Thus, Joe Q wins.

[LouFerignoDemon]

They ought to give Clint an MCP story. Show how he's catching up with life now that, y'know, he's got one again.

It's called New Avengers, and he seems to be getting along just fine. :o


Funny how he had more characterization in a single issue of NA before the MA/NA split than he does now. =/

[PhotoJones]

Thus, Joe Q wins.

I hate Joe Q's winning streak. :cmad:

[TheCorpulent1]

It's called New Avengers, and he seems to be getting along just fine. :o


Funny how he had more characterization in a single issue of NA before the MA/NA split than he does now. =/
When I left New Avengers, Clint had only had speaking parts in like three of the last five or six issues and only one of them gave me any interesting insight into the character or played any significant part in the story. He's just background filler in that series most of the time. It seems to follow Luke Cage and Wolverine, mostly, with a spotlight issue on Echo now and then.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Luke Cage, Wolvie AND Spider Man.

[TheCorpulent1]

Nah, Peter just pops in to make a bad joke here and there. He didn't contribute anything too significant when I was reading.

[PhotoJones]

He still doesn't. The Collective storyline, for all it's flaws, was probably the best case of Peter contributing, as far as that book goes.

[TheCorpulent1]

And now he's wearing his black costume for apparently no reason or a really, really old reason, depending on which now-negated significant contribution to his continuity you choose to follow.

[PhotoJones]

I'm assuming that NA takes place pre-OMD, which wouldn't cause any continuity bumps.

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess, given the snail's pacing of the thing. It's gotta catch up at some point, though.

[PhotoJones]

Does it? I doubt Bendis gives a **** one way or the other.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, right, special dispensation for bringing Marvel more money than God, relatively speaking.

[PhotoJones]

Bendis makes my heart hurt. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

I think that's just your cholesterol.

[PhotoJones]

I should get that checked, actually.

[TheCorpulent1]

Why? You know it's bad. That's enough.

[PhotoJones]

Maybe I can work to make it better.

[Harlekin]

Oh, right, special dispensation for bringing Marvel more money than God, relatively speaking.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9074/worthingtonhs6.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

Hahahaha, I love the original X-Men. :D

[Harlekin]

Champions, actually.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes, I know they're Champions there, but they're always the original X-Men first and foremost, in my mind. And I meant them as a whole, too. The interplay between Warren, Hank, and Bobby is always fun, and Scott and Jean as somewhat parental figures for the others was cool, too.

[Harlekin]

Ah. I like the original X-Men too, although I can do without Jean. She always feels out of place with the whole boys club thing they've got going on. The interplay between Warren, Hank, Bobby and Scott is always great. True friends and all that jazz. That Archangel/Beast issue after X-Cutioner's Song (which also featured Jubes/Xavier) is still one of the best down-time issues.

[PhotoJones]

Jean was great when it was just the original 5. :up:

[Xofenroht]

They were definitely all hot for her when she showed up.

[PhotoJones]

I liked the Scott/Jean/Warren triangle.

[Xofenroht]

I preferred the Scott/Jean/Logan one.

[PhotoJones]

That one got old, fast.

[Xofenroht]

Maybe so, but I wasn't old enough for it to get old. Once I did get old enough, the ***** died on me.