All Star Superman, All Star Batman........what about an All Star JSA? [Archive]

The Question

06-26-2005, 08:55 PM

Think about it. Right now, the JSA book is about the surviveing JSAers and the new blood. Now, it's a good book, but I want to see more of the origional JSA. More than that, I want to see them in their prime, in the 1940s. Now, I know there was an All Star Squadron comic in the 80s, but there is still alot of potential stories set in the war years fo the JSA. Do you think an All Star JSA would be a good idea?

Shawkur

06-26-2005, 09:05 PM

That and a Captain Marvel title are the only All-Star titles I would have any interest in.

John Constantine

06-26-2005, 09:08 PM

I really wouldn't mind a All-Star JLA as well.

But honestly, the only reason why these All-star titles are around is probably to take advantage of the movies coming out and the hope that they might attract new readers.....

Unthinkable

06-26-2005, 09:37 PM

Didn't they have a series called JSA All Stars already?

Shawkur

06-26-2005, 09:48 PM

No relation.

The Batman

06-26-2005, 09:57 PM

I'm sorry...but no.

The All Star comics are about iconic Dc characters. the JSA...aren't Iconic. And, if the All Star titles are tied together, it's best to have ONE version of the Flash, GL, etc.

The Question

06-26-2005, 10:04 PM

I'm sorry...but no.

The All Star comics are about iconic Dc characters. the JSA...aren't Iconic. And, if the All Star titles are tied together, it's best to have ONE version of the Flash, GL, etc.

The JSA was iconic back in the day. The Justice League is the most iconic superteam now, but the JSA was the Justice League of the 40s.

Darthphere

06-26-2005, 10:04 PM

I'm sorry...but no.

The All Star comics are about iconic Dc characters. the JSA...aren't Iconic. And, if the All Star titles are tied together, it's best to have ONE version of the Flash, GL, etc.

WTF are you talking about? The JSA not iconic. You have Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Hawkman, Captain Marvel...how are they not iconic.

But the answer is still no, All-Star Batman and Superman shouldnt even exist.

The Question

06-26-2005, 10:06 PM

I'm sorry...but no.

The All Star comics are about iconic Dc characters. the JSA...aren't Iconic. And, if the All Star titles are tied together, it's best to have ONE version of the Flash, GL, etc.

Plus, it doesn't have to be in the All Star imprint. I just though it was the best way to put it out cause it's a continuity free retelling, so they'd have more freedome.

The Batman

06-26-2005, 10:08 PM

Does anyone outside of comics know who alan Scott and Jay Garrick are?

Then no, they're not iconic.

Darthphere

06-26-2005, 10:16 PM

Does anyone outside of comics know who alan Scott and Jay Garrick are?

Then no, they're not iconic.

Thats what iconic means to you, if theyre popular? Then sir thats ****ing bull****. Blade is popular is he iconic? Underdog is popular is he iconic? Im sorry but the majority of people who would read an All Star JSA would be people who know who Alan and Jay are. Dont give me this new reader crap. The majority of sales would come from comic book fans.

rigel7soldiers

06-26-2005, 10:27 PM

Jay and Alan aren't icons becayse they were never on TV. The Justice League is better known to many as the Super Friends, and Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, and Batman became cultural icons through their live-action television shows. The Phantom Zone criminals and Lex Luthor would likely be nonentities today were it not for the movies.

CConn

06-26-2005, 10:29 PM

Thats what iconic means to you, if theyre popular? Then sir thats ****ing bull****. Blade is popular is he iconic? Underdog is popular is he iconic? Im sorry but the majority of people who would read an All Star JSA would be people who know who Alan and Jay are. Dont give me this new reader crap. The majority of sales would come from comic book fans.Then go yell at DC, it's their concept, The Batman's just stating it. :o

In any case, I wouldn't really be for it...mainly because I'd want a All-Star Captain Marvel first.

Bat-Mantis

06-26-2005, 10:32 PM

People... Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the most iconic characters, but they're not the ONLY ones.
The JSA were icons in their time and for DC many fans today, they're still icons.
I don't want them to have an All-Star book, though. And Didio said there are no plans in the next few years to do any kind of retelling of older stories or any of that.

The Batman

06-26-2005, 10:33 PM

The point of the All Star line is to have Heroes that appeal to everyone besides DC Fans-- Meaning Marvel Fans and the General Public, who DC are hoping will be the main buyers.

Marvel Fans and the General Public dont care about Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. In fact, thats why most people stick to marvel. Because of the "Legacy" aspect. Hawkman and Captain Marvel can easily be added to an All Star JLA book.

Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Captain Marvel, and the JLA are pretty much the best heroes for the All Star treatment. the JSA arent. Iconic, IMO, means being known by comic fans as well as the general public. The JSA arent. The JSA cant cater to anyone outside of DC/Comic Fans. The heroes i listed above can.

Darthphere

06-26-2005, 10:34 PM

Then go yell at DC, it's their concept, The Batman's just stating it. :o.

DC never said the JSA werent iconic, TheBatman did. :o

Darthphere

06-26-2005, 10:35 PM

Bat-Mantis

06-26-2005, 10:40 PM

Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Captain Marvel, and the JLA are pretty much the best heroes for the All Star treatment.Most people don't know who the **** Green Lantern, Captain Marvel and the Flash are.
It's all relative.

rigel7soldiers

06-26-2005, 10:45 PM

The Flash and Captain Marvel are pretty well known. Again, CM had a wildly popular program in the Seventies, which is mainly why he, and the SHAZAM catchphrase, are so well remembered today.

Bat-Mantis

06-26-2005, 10:54 PM

The Flash and Captain Marvel are pretty well known. Again, CM had a wildly popular program in the Seventies, which is mainly why he, and the SHAZAM catchphrase, are so well remembered today.Nah, I'm always having to explain who the Flash is. I can wear a Flash shirt and they'll ask, I'll be like, "oh, it's the Flash" and then I'll have to explain the powers and the red suit and I usually end up getting an, "oookkaayyy" look.
And people remember Shazam but mostly because of Gomer Pyle. Ask an average person who either one of those guys are and they'll have no clue. They'll probably think it's a superhero... because it sounds like a superhero, but that'll probably be all they know.

rigel7soldiers

06-26-2005, 10:57 PM

But I feel like if you wore a Flash costume, people would recognize it.

Shawkur

06-26-2005, 11:31 PM

I think most people would be able to identify Garrick and Scott as versions of the Flash and GL, and probably as the originals.

TheCorpulent1

06-27-2005, 04:34 AM

I'd prefer a Golden Age JSA book to an All-Star JSA one. Simply because I think the All-Star concept is dumb from the get-go. It's DC's answer to the Ultimate line, plain and simple, meaning that DC's now sinking to Marvel's level and trying to peddle the same characters even more, since clearly 3 Superman titles, 4 Batman titles, and about 10 ancillary titles and mini-series between the two of them every month isn't enough. :o

drastic_quench

06-27-2005, 12:11 PM

The All-Star line is trying to appeal to people that haven't read a comic in years, if ever, all while not dumbing it down for us.

For the non-comic readers the JSA is not iconic, they aren't even known. Hell, 3/4 of the JLA aren't icons either. Now everyone is debating what iconic means, if we're talking iconic to comics fans or popular icons. Keeping in mind what the All-Star line is trying to accomplish, I think a character is an icon if you're in some POS 3rd world country and a kid who's never seen a comic book in his life is wearing a character's t-shirt. Superman. Batman. You can try an' lump Wonder Woman in there as well, but those are really the big two. Well, duh. But I mean you can travel anywhere in the world and scrawl a bat oval or the S-shield in the dirt and the locals will know who you mean. They're universal. They're known concepts even when it's something as primal as writing in the dirt with a stick.

The Batman

06-27-2005, 12:56 PM

Bingo.

twylight

06-27-2005, 12:58 PM

JSA was the very First DC book I bought. And I had limited knowledge of the group.
It cater's to people outside of DC if the person is interested in more 'historical' type books.

There is no need for an All-Star JSA title, DC has JSA: Classified coming out this summer. Which I think will be better than adding JSA to the All-Star line.

Supergirl

06-27-2005, 01:36 PM

Yeah JSA and JLA Classified allow the writers to tell stories from whatever era they want of the team.

TheCorpulent1

06-27-2005, 01:46 PM

I hope one of the stories for Classified sees Alan following up on Obsidian with Jade. What a great, twisted, dysfunctional family. :)

Kurosawa

06-28-2005, 08:47 AM

If they used the REAL JSA from pre-Crisis then the "iconic" arguement is moot. Hell, even if they use the post-Crisis version set in the 40's Wonder Woman is in it. The average idiot doesn't know it's not the same character.

lespaul59

06-29-2005, 05:34 AM

This could have already been said with different wording but isn't the All Star comics supposed to be DC's answer to the Marval Ultimate titles. And the way I've heard them explained is to get new readed and such things. I'm gonna check them out. I think they should see how single titles sell before putting out team titles.

The Batman!

06-30-2005, 07:51 PM

I'm sorry...but no.

The All Star comics are about iconic Dc characters. the JSA...aren't Iconic. And, if the All Star titles are tied together, it's best to have ONE version of the Flash, GL, etc.

I agree, in fact, I'm not really much of a JSA fan either. I never knew why there needed to be a JSA and a JLA. One is more than enough, and clearly the JLA is better. That's my opinion, though.

:batman:

Darthphere

06-30-2005, 07:54 PM

I agree, in fact, I'm not really much of a JSA fan either. I never knew why there needed to be a JSA and a JLA. One is more than enough, and clearly the JLA is better. That's my opinion, though.

:batman:

Yeah and sorry your opinion sucks. JSA is far better than JLA.

Dwarf lord

06-30-2005, 09:56 PM

And JSA came 20 years before anyone even thought of a JLA.

SuGarRush

07-01-2005, 12:20 AM

Whoa Whoa Whoa lets keep this civil guys. JLA right now IS more popular than JSA.
It holds the powerhouses, people outside comics recognize the JLA characters.
I love comics but I would be hard pressed to name more than 4 members of the JSA, and I probably buy 6 different DC titles every month.
For older people, JSA is the stuff they grew up with and so they have an attachment to it. And for a very good reason, Dr. Mid-nite, Dr. Fate, Mr. Terrific? Awesome characters.
Not to mention the original Flash and GL's are on the team.

JLA though has the NEW GL and the NEW Flash. Plus they also have arguably the two most famous superheroes ever, Batman and Superman. ITs like Quench said, you stand in the plains of Kenya drawing the S-shield in the dirt and even the lions can identify Superman. JLA is more popular amongst the civilians and also holds mroe characters that people would call iconic.

Of course everything I said has to be taken with a grain of salt, my favourite JLA member is Aquaman, and every one knows that Fanboys of the "Sea-King" are a lil' bit off their rockers...

Dwarf lord

07-01-2005, 01:03 AM

I was going to flame you for saying the JSA isn't popular (which it kind of is), but having Aquaman be your JLA member saved you. And Superman isn't the JLA as you said up there. Superman is Superman. He's not identified with JLA>

Bat-Mantis

07-01-2005, 01:13 AM

Why are people saying stuff like, "compared to Superman, they're not iconic"?
Compared to Superman, Jesus is barely iconic.
It's relative, people. To some, the JSA is just as iconic as the JLA. To the average public, the JLA is probably more recognizable, sure. But does that mean the JSA aren't iconic? ummmmmmmm no. It means some guy on the street MAY (and I want to stress "may") be able to recognize the Silver Age Flash and not the Golden Age Flash.

lespaul59

07-01-2005, 05:40 AM

If DC's All Star line is really suposed to be like Marvels Ultimate line then it be more understandable to do an All Star JLA because it is the more well known to the non readed than the JSA because of the cartoon(which now has both JLA and JSA soesn't it) and Batman and Superman. A non reader in my opinion would be more likelyto pick up a All Star JLA than JSA because they would see Superman or Batman.

Bullseye

07-15-2006, 12:05 AM

There's has been more of a hint towards a All Star Wonder Woman book than All Star JSA. Still, nothing concrete as to when All Star Wonder Woman would begin.

Tropico

07-15-2006, 09:00 AM

I'm sorry...but no.

The All Star comics are about iconic Dc characters. the JSA...aren't Iconic. And, if the All Star titles are tied together, it's best to have ONE version of the Flash, GL, etc.

Dear The Batman, even though the All Star titles aren't connected your excuse for not having more than one version of a character as it "being the best" has already been all shot to hell. There's 2 versions of Superman in the All Star universe: the Batman version and the Superman version.

I would't want an All Star JSA title, either. To me the JSA'ers are characters of importance, but aren't really iconic, even though I like many of them more than their Silver Age counterparts. I wouldn't want them associated with the crap that is All Star either. I've loved the Elseworlds, "The Liberty Files" and the "Unholy Three", and think a series with that creative team would totally own. I'd buy an ongoing in a heartbeat if it's done by them, even if it's with the mainstream JSA and not the Elseworlds versions.

Regarding the iconism thing....you don't need an iconic character to make good stories, you need a good writer. Iconism doesn't translate to sales. Aquaman is iconic, but he's only iconic in the "he talks to fishes" sense and generally as a lame character (an opinion I don't share). Are people gonna tell me that he's gonna generate sales because he's iconic? Puh-leeze!!!:rolleyes:

The Batman

07-15-2006, 11:22 AM

Dear The Batman, even though the All Star titles aren't connected your excuse for not having more than one version of a character as it "being the best" has already been all shot to hell. There's 2 versions of Superman in the All Star universe: the Batman version and the Superman version.

I would't want an All Star JSA title, either. To me the JSA'ers are characters of importance, but aren't really iconic, even though I like many of them more than their Silver Age counterparts. I wouldn't want them associated with the crap that is All Star either. I've loved the Elseworlds, "The Liberty Files" and the "Unholy Three", and think a series with that creative team would totally own. I'd buy an ongoing in a heartbeat if it's done by them, even if it's with the mainstream JSA and not the Elseworlds versions.

Regarding the iconism thing....you don't need an iconic character to make good stories, you need a good writer. Iconism doesn't translate to sales. Aquaman is iconic, but he's only iconic in the "he talks to fishes" sense and generally as a lame character (an opinion I don't share). Are people gonna tell me that he's gonna generate sales because he's iconic? Puh-leeze!!!:rolleyes:

My point was is that the JSA arent known by the general public. And thats the audience the all star line is striving for. They'll probably go for an all star jla instead of a jsa one. sure, they're popular amongst comic fans, but the general public could care less. For example, do you see Marvel's Ultimate books creating an invaders title, complete with the 40's version of the human torch? No, because they already have the avengers.

And as for the 2 different versions: They're still clark kent. Its not like they used clark for one universe and say, john henry irons for another one.

Tropico

07-15-2006, 09:23 PM

My point was is that the JSA arent known by the general public. And thats the audience the all star line is striving for. They'll probably go for an all star jla instead of a jsa one. sure, they're popular amongst comic fans, but the general public could care less. For example, do you see Marvel's Ultimate books creating an invaders title, complete with the 40's version of the human torch? No, because they already have the avengers.

And as for the 2 different versions: They're still clark kent. Its not like they used clark for one universe and say, john henry irons for another one.

I agreed with you in regards to the iconism. Saying that characters are iconic to a core group of people and not to the general public doesn't quite fill the definition of icon to me.

If you want to split hairs in regards to the Superman situation, be my guest; they're still two different characters in what matters.

Darthphere

07-15-2006, 09:25 PM

Yeah, I like how both of you assume people who never bought comics before are the ones buying these titles.

The Batman

07-15-2006, 09:32 PM

it dosent matter whos buying them now. DC's intent is to get the people who've watched DC cartoons, TV shows, and movies to read these books. And in DC media, most of the JSA characters have not made a dent in the public conciousness, for whatever reason. Alan Scott and Jay Garrick are passed over to use versions of the Flash and GL from silver age onward, and the rest havent really been used.

Its like i said about the invaders. They too are remembered and loved by comic fans, but you wont see an ultimate book featuring them, mainly because the avengers are more mainstream. And you probably wont see the original human torch ultimized, because marvel wants to use one version: The one thats more popular and recognized.

Darthphere

07-15-2006, 09:33 PM

The Batman

07-15-2006, 09:42 PM

maybe so, but DC's wants the general public to be the main demographic, not fans already buying their books.

Darthphere

07-15-2006, 09:47 PM

Ok, I really didnt have a point I just was bored.

Kurosawa

07-16-2006, 02:38 AM

The is no group that is more All-Star than the JSA. They should set All-Star JSA in the 40's and use the Earth-Two version of the team.

Tropico

07-16-2006, 09:40 AM

Yeah, I like how both of you assume people who never bought comics before are the ones buying these titles.

Was that directed at me, too? 'Cause I don't think they're directed at people that never bought comics. All Star Superman doesn't make sense as a "beginner" comic since it has more Pre-Crisis nostalgia to me than anything else. And All Star Batman.......let's just say that I weep for people picking up this comic who are just now getting into them. Sometimes I think they're more for people already buying comics but b**ch and whine that they want the characters to be taken back to a younger time so they can be more relatable.:rolleyes: Or so they can say "Dis is teh Batman of mine genrashun it roxx00rz, LOLZ!!1!!!1". Does it have the marketing feel of starting somethin anew with big names to get the public interested? Sure. Do I think it's succesful that way? Nope.