What was the point of fighting Ra's on the monorail?

[the_narc_2000]

Maybe I missed the explanation, but why did Batman go after Ra's instead of driving the Batmobile himself to the Wayne building to blow up the monorail supports? Was he there just to make sure he didn't make a premature departure?

[Two-Face]

cos Batman wanted a good sending off Ra's himself.

[Salemdog]

If Batman failed to stop Ra's one way he would be gotten the other. And he had to make sure Ra's couldn't just stop the train himself and escape. At least it seemed that way to me.

[joke]

Because he wanted to stop the microwave emitter from getting to Wayne Tower without collateral damage. He gave the Batmobile to Gordon, so even if he'd fail to stop the train, Gordon can blow the railroad and de-rail the train.

[The Spider-Bat]

Because the movie had to have a big battel at the end. Driving a car into a building is a very good way to end a movie.

[the_narc_2000]

Because he wanted to stop the microwave emitter from getting to Wayne Tower without collateral damage. He gave the Batmobile to Gordon, so even if he'd fail to stop the train, Gordon can blow the railroad and de-rail the train.

Did Batman tell Gordon that he was going to signal him if he did stop the emitter and monorail?

[guitarsingerguy]

He shoved the screwdriver into the controls to make sure he didn't stop the train. That's why.

[The Kid]

emergency brakes much?

[Bishop2]

He shoved the screwdriver into the controls to make sure he didn't stop the train. That's why.

Bingo.

Batman had to stop him from stopping the train. And by distracting Ra's from the upcoming crash, he prevented him from coming up with some bizarre way of escaping and saving the emitter.

[I_believe_you]

He shoved the screwdriver into the controls to make sure he didn't stop the train. That's why.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

[Exabyte]

Because the movie had to have a big battel at the end. Driving a car into a building is a very good way to end a movie.

You mean a car blowing up a tower and a train going into a building is a good way to end the movie's climax.

[The Spider-Bat]

I think that every supehero movie should have a big fight between the hero/s and the villian/s.

[TheVileOne]

Basically, Batman was there to cause massive amounts of property damage...and to make sure the train didn't stop :) . Ra's could've still stopped the train if he didn't screw up the controls. He also probably wanted to make sure the microwave emitter was destroyed.

[The Kid]

seriously.... a train or monorail with no emergency brakes?

Wayne's father was a real bonehead.

[Batman2005]

it has deep, powerful meanings. bruce's father was killed even tho he gave gotham the monorail. now ras tries to destroy the city using the monorail. bruce could let him, but then he may have well just shot joe chill. it's deep, man. it's circular, it goes in circles.

[The Kid]

deep circles? or ovals? Then it would be cylindrical.:up:

[Castlewood]

it has deep, powerful meanings. bruce's father was killed even tho he gave gotham the monorail. now ras tries to destroy the city using the monorail. bruce could let him, but then he may have well just shot joe chill. it's deep, man. it's circular, it goes in circles.

Did anyone notice the monorail when Bruce was little, and then how it looked when Rachel was on there, right before she was attacked?

At first, it was beautiful, now it's ugly and old, and full of graffiti.

The monorail symobolizes what Gotham USED TO BE before Thomas Wayne was killed, and now that Gotham's father is gone, the city is lost and hopeless.

Thomas Wayne is God.
Bruce Wayne is Jesus.
Gotham City is the Earth.

God created the Earth, and now that he is gone, Jesus has returned to save the people from its evil corruption.

or....

Thomas Wayne created Gotham City, and now that he is dead, Bruce Wayne has returned to save the people from its evil corruption.

The monorail train is just a symbolism of that corruption, and to show that Gotham was once beautiful, and now it isn't.

And the point of it crashing is a symbol of Gotham starting over again from scratch. A new, nicer monorail would be built, and the finale is a way of "letting the past go." Starting over again. The monorail basically symbollizes GOTHAM CITY ITSELF.

...and it's a way of letting Bruce let go, as well.

All kinds of things symbolize that.

- The monorail
- The mansion burning down
- The stethoscope

All these things are destroyed in the end, and they all have to do with his father. Now.....the past is gone, and his NEW life can begin.

[The Spider-Bat]

Wow, I never thought of it that way.

[Bishop2]

The real reason Batman went after Ra's on the monorail was probably just so he could determine quien es mas macho. :p

[drastic_quench]

He shoved the screwdriver into the controls to make sure he didn't stop the train. That's why.

If "screwdriver" is comic book fan slang for "Ra's broken cane sword" then you're right.

[guitarsingerguy]

If "screwdriver" is comic book fan slang for "Ra's broken cane sword" then you're right.

You knew what the hell I meant. That is odd though. Where in the hell did I get screwdriver from? :confused: Stay out of summer school kids. It fries your brain.

[Excel]

i thought it was bcause bruice felt responsible for ras still being/everything going on there so he went to make sure he would finsih the job himself.

[The Guard]

I think it's Ra's who jammed his cane into the controls, not Batman. Before doing so, Ra's bashed Batman over the head with the piece of cane, then rapidly stabs out the controls. To prevent the train from being able to stop. At that point, Batman falls back on Gordon.

[Comic Book Boy]

Thomas Wayne is God.
Bruce Wayne is Jesus.
Gotham City is the Earth


....No...I think that is a weak analogy. Not what the film makers intended. You can make that analogy in almost every film but I don't like it.

[guitarsingerguy]

I think it's Ra's who jammed his cane into the controls, not Batman. Before doing so, Ra's bashed Batman over the head with the piece of cane, then rapidly stabs out the controls. To prevent the train from being able to stop. At that point, Batman falls back on Gordon.

Nope. Batman does it, and Ra's doesn't see it. Don't you remember when Ra's looked at Batman and said, "You can't stop this train now." Batman's response was, "Who said anything about stopping it?" Then Ra's looked back and noticed the controls were shot.

[Spidey-Bat]

He wanted to show Ra's he made himself more than just a man and devoted himself to an ideal and that he wasn't gonna let anyone stop him.

In other words, he showed Ra's he became a legend.

[HerosOnFilm]

If "screwdriver" is comic book fan slang for "Ra's broken cane sword" then you're right.

LOL, I laughed a while at this one :D

[Vile]

Maybe I missed the explanation, but why did Batman go after Ra's instead of driving the Batmobile himself to the Wayne building to blow up the monorail supports? Was he there just to make sure he didn't make a premature departure?

The plan was to stop Ra's from ever LOADING the train (Thats what he tell Gordon before handing over the 'keys' to the batmobile). Blowing the rail was a fallback incase he died doing it. He simply wanted to cover his ass - lets not forget there are more than one monorail track to Wayne Towers; Batman would have to blow them all up since he wouldnt know which track Ra's was taking.

Once failing to stop the loading of the train, and since it was on it's way he jammed the controls to keep it from stopping because incase Gordon didn't blow the track in time he would simply plow the train, device, himself and Ra's INTO Wayne Tower thus destroying the Emitter...and himself....in the process.

[Castlewood]

....No...I think that is a weak analogy. Not what the film makers intended. You can make that analogy in almost every film but I don't like it.

Ok......you must be right then.;)

[Stripesy Strip]

Something I didn`t get: if Ra`s men are already having alluconigene powder thrown in the water to make Gotham`s citizen got nuts, what do they need the machine for?

[Vile]

Because it must be inhaled through the LUNGS to work. The machine will turn the water into a gas, thus making it possible to enter the lungs.

[Stripesy Strip]

oh thanks


that makes it more interesting that way lol

[The Guard]

Nope. Batman does it, and Ra's doesn't see it.

How can he not see it? The two are right on top of each other. It looks for all the world to me like Ra's bashes him in the head, and while Batman is momentarily stunned, uses the cane himself.

Don't you remember when Ra's looked at Batman and said, "You can't stop this train now." Batman's response was, "Who said anything about stopping it?" Then Ra's looked back and noticed the controls were shot.

Trust me on this.

When Ra's says "you can't stop this train", it's in part because he's choking him and has the upper hand, and in part because he himself prevented it from being stopped by screwing up the controls. After Batman breaks Ra's sword in two and kicks him backward, he goes to the front of the car to stop the train. Ra's, seeing him do this, uses the piece of the jagged cane he's still holding to either hit or stab Batman in the back, and sends Batman off balance for a second. Ra's then uses the cane to jab at the controls, lodging it there, and resumes his attack on Batman. When Batman says "Who said anything about stopping it", he's referring to the fact that he doesn't have to because of his backup plan with Gordon. Yes, Ra's looks up and you see the controls that he shot out (this is a plot device to remind the audience that the cane in the controls thing happened, so that the audience knows the train is going to keep going). Then Ra's notices that the track itself is falling to pieces. And realizes what Batman is talking about. This momentary shock gives Batman the edge to gain the advantage.

[raybia]

Did anyone notice the monorail when Bruce was little, and then how it looked when Rachel was on there, right before she was attacked?

At first, it was beautiful, now it's ugly and old, and full of graffiti.

The monorail symobolizes what Gotham USED TO BE before Thomas Wayne was killed, and now that Gotham's father is gone, the city is lost and hopeless.

Thomas Wayne is God.
Bruce Wayne is Jesus.
Gotham City is the Earth.

God created the Earth, and now that he is gone, Jesus has returned to save the people from its evil corruption.

or....

Thomas Wayne created Gotham City, and now that he is dead, Bruce Wayne has returned to save the people from its evil corruption.

The monorail train is just a symbolism of that corruption, and to show that Gotham was once beautiful, and now it isn't.

And the point of it crashing is a symbol of Gotham starting over again from scratch. A new, nicer monorail would be built, and the finale is a way of "letting the past go." Starting over again. The monorail basically symbollizes GOTHAM CITY ITSELF.

...and it's a way of letting Bruce let go, as well.

All kinds of things symbolize that.

- The monorail
- The mansion burning down
- The stethoscope

All these things are destroyed in the end, and they all have to do with his father. Now.....the past is gone, and his NEW life can begin.


"A thing of Beauty is a joy fovever."

Great post!

[Castlewood]

"A thing of Beauty is a joy fovever."

Great post!

Thank you very much. :cool:

[guitarsingerguy]

How can he not see it? The two are right on top of each other. It looks for all the world to me like Ra's bashes him in the head, and while Batman is momentarily stunned, uses the cane himself.



Trust me on this.

When Ra's says "you can't stop this train", it's in part because he's choking him and has the upper hand, and in part because he himself prevented it from being stopped by screwing up the controls. After Batman breaks Ra's sword in two and kicks him backward, he goes to the front of the car to stop the train. Ra's, seeing him do this, uses the piece of the jagged cane he's still holding to either hit or stab Batman in the back, and sends Batman off balance for a second. Ra's then uses the cane to jab at the controls, lodging it there, and resumes his attack on Batman. When Batman says "Who said anything about stopping it", he's referring to the fact that he doesn't have to because of his backup plan with Gordon. Yes, Ra's looks up and you see the controls that he shot out (this is a plot device to remind the audience that the cane in the controls thing happened, so that the audience knows the train is going to keep going). Then Ra's notices that the track itself is falling to pieces. And realizes what Batman is talking about. This momentary shock gives Batman the edge to gain the advantage.


I'm going back to watch it again tomorrow, so I'll watch closer then.

[Comic Book Boy]

Ok......you must be right then.;)
Well I just hate to throw religion into this film. I don't think that is what the creators wanted. I agree with the other part of ur post though.

[The Kid]

I will try again. Who builds any mass transit system without an emergency brake?


all quigon had to do was find it and tug, press, activate it and the monorail would have at least slowed down enough for him to jump off through the back.

[Ocelot]

Did anyone notice the monorail when Bruce was little, and then how it looked when Rachel was on there, right before she was attacked?

At first, it was beautiful, now it's ugly and old, and full of graffiti.

The monorail symobolizes what Gotham USED TO BE before Thomas Wayne was killed, and now that Gotham's father is gone, the city is lost and hopeless.

Thomas Wayne is God.
Bruce Wayne is Jesus.
Gotham City is the Earth.

God created the Earth, and now that he is gone, Jesus has returned to save the people from its evil corruption.

or....

Thomas Wayne created Gotham City, and now that he is dead, Bruce Wayne has returned to save the people from its evil corruption.

The monorail train is just a symbolism of that corruption, and to show that Gotham was once beautiful, and now it isn't.

And the point of it crashing is a symbol of Gotham starting over again from scratch. A new, nicer monorail would be built, and the finale is a way of "letting the past go." Starting over again. The monorail basically symbollizes GOTHAM CITY ITSELF.

...and it's a way of letting Bruce let go, as well.

All kinds of things symbolize that.

- The monorail
- The mansion burning down
- The stethoscope

All these things are destroyed in the end, and they all have to do with his father. Now.....the past is gone, and his NEW life can begin.


Ugh, please lets not get this kind of stuff about the movie ever going again, it sounds too much like Matrix fanboys explaining the matrix trilogy. Can't we just let it be what it is?

[BatMatt]

I thought it was Batman until posts like Guards arised and now I know its Ra's

[HerosOnFilm]

I will try again. Who builds any mass transit system without an emergency brake?


all quigon had to do was find it and tug, press, activate it and the monorail would have at least slowed down enough for him to jump off through the back.

Perhaps it was damaged along with the other controls?

[Dangerous]

Cool endding I like how bats trusts Gordon.

[jimal]

What? I thought Batman fought Ducard at the end, Ra's is dead?

[Bishop2]

What? I thought Batman fought Ducard at the end, Ra's is dead?

Should've paid more attention during the scene at Bruce's birthday party. "Ducard" IS the one true Ra's al Ghul. The earlier "Ra's" was just a decoy.

[Milkman95]

Should've paid more attention during the scene at Bruce's birthday party. "Ducard" IS the one true Ra's al Ghul. The earlier "Ra's" was just a decoy.

Unfortunately, the music build-up and Bruce saying Ra's to Neeson and him nodding isn't good enough I guess....... :)

[Bishop2]

Unfortunately, the music build-up and Bruce saying Ra's to Neeson and him nodding isn't good enough I guess....... :)

Actually, it seems like you're right. Both times I've gone to the movie now, I always get people saying to me afterwards "So, wait, who was Liam Neeson?" :rolleyes:

[Milkman95]

Actually, it seems like you're right. Both times I've gone to the movie now, I always get people saying to me afterwards "So, wait, who was Liam Neeson?" :rolleyes:

Or when Neeson says "Certainly you don't begrudge my dual identities"........ :)

[Knightsaber Priss]

I think that every supehero movie should have a big fight between the hero/s and the villian/s.

And utilizing trains of some sort as a platform for a battle.

[Knightsaber Priss]

Unfortunately, the music build-up and Bruce saying Ra's to Neeson and him nodding isn't good enough I guess....... :)

I don't know why but this made me laugh so hard. And all told, I am naughty because I never put two and two together at the beginning when Ra's as Ducard is telling Bruce about how he lost his wife because of a criminal. That should have been a huge red flag to Batman fans who the real Ra's was.

[MatchesMalone]

How can he not see it? The two are right on top of each other. It looks for all the world to me like Ra's bashes him in the head, and while Batman is momentarily stunned, uses the cane himself.



Trust me on this.

When Ra's says "you can't stop this train", it's in part because he's choking him and has the upper hand, and in part because he himself prevented it from being stopped by screwing up the controls. After Batman breaks Ra's sword in two and kicks him backward, he goes to the front of the car to stop the train. Ra's, seeing him do this, uses the piece of the jagged cane he's still holding to either hit or stab Batman in the back, and sends Batman off balance for a second. Ra's then uses the cane to jab at the controls, lodging it there, and resumes his attack on Batman. When Batman says "Who said anything about stopping it", he's referring to the fact that he doesn't have to because of his backup plan with Gordon. Yes, Ra's looks up and you see the controls that he shot out (this is a plot device to remind the audience that the cane in the controls thing happened, so that the audience knows the train is going to keep going). Then Ra's notices that the track itself is falling to pieces. And realizes what Batman is talking about. This momentary shock gives Batman the edge to gain the advantage.

After thinking about this over and over, and watching it over and over in my head, I really think Guard has hit the nail on the head. The flow of events could have been more clearly shot, but the confusion is what Nolan was going for, and in part I think it was to make this ambiguous.

Batman breaks Ra's's sword.

Batman tries for the controls to stop the train.

Ra's goes after him, fighting ensues, and Ra's jams his broken sword into the controls.

Cut to Gordon blowing out the track support.

Ra's starts choking Batman, and says "Nothing can stop this train now." Direct reference to him fouling the controls.

Batman says "who said anything about stopping it?" In order to redirect Ra's' attention to the crumbling track out the window.

Batman gets upper hand due to this distraction, and gets on top. "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

Throws batarangs, and escapes. In other words, Batman's backup plan worked, and it was an unfortunately high-damage plan.

Emergency brakes are a plot hole, unless you assume those were the controls Ra's broke - which seems obvious since Ra's talks about stopping the train, and there was no throttle in the controls Ra's broke. Besides, emergency brakes probably would stop the train right inside the tower, as fast as it was going.

The only real plot hole is why Batman didn't just go for the emitter and blow it up with his mini mines at first - countered by his desire not to blow Ra's up along with it.

[The Sage]

I'm pretty sure it was Ra's who jammed the controls. When Batman said "who said anything about stopping it", Ra's looked at the controls then he looked out the window, in which he later on saw the tracks get blown out.

[Vile]

From the way I saw it, Batman clearly jammed the controls. As I said before, he was stopped from stopping Ra's from loading the train, and with him battling Ra's he wasnt going to be stopping it anytime soon...not to mention, for all he knew Gordon wouldnt blow the track in time. At that point, the only option was to plow the train into Wayne Towers - destroying the train and emitter completely.

It doesnt make sense for Ra's to jam the controls - a train going full speed slamming into the 'docking bay' of Wayne Tower would be demolished. The emitter wouldnt have time to work it's magic on the water maines. Hell, you saw hole long it took change the water to gas in the Narrows - several seconds at least, seconds it wouldnt have if it would have plowed into Wayne Towers.

Again, this all tying into the explanation I posted on the other page...that seems the most logical...atleast to me. Then again, plotholes in movies are hardly a rare thing.

As to who builds a monorail system without an emergency break? Thomas Wayne, it appears. :p

[graveyardtramp]

I figured it's because Batman needed to ensure the train didn't stop.....if Batman had driven the Batmobile and shot down the track, Ra's may have still been able to stop the train and escape....

[graveyardtramp]

Plus it gave the screenwriters a convenient way to give Gordon something to do during the climax....

[the_prowler]

Here's the easy answer: Batman fought Ra's on the monorail because the producers figured this would make an excellent final level on the Batman Begins video game.

[KING ¼]

Here's the easy answer: Batman fought Ra's on the monorail because the producers figured this would make an excellent final level on the Batman Begins video game.

And it did... except Batman didnt say his wonderful line in the game.:(

[Batty for Bats!]

The only point I could come up with is that it made good movie time. I saw it as the most triumphant scene of Batman including the dead franchises. Batman was facing his once friend for the sake of saving Gotham (much like a Two-Face face off.) He bested Ra's in more than way in fighting and his humanity that he himself wouldn't take Ra's life.

[Comic Book Boy]

And it did... except Batman didnt say his wonderful line in the game.:(
He said a different one that was cool.

Ras: If not murder what do you call this?
Batman: Justice.

(leaves Ras)

[mcflytrap]

From the way I saw it, Batman clearly jammed the controls. As I said before, he was stopped from stopping Ra's from loading the train, and with him battling Ra's he wasnt going to be stopping it anytime soon...not to mention, for all he knew Gordon wouldnt blow the track in time. At that point, the only option was to plow the train into Wayne Towers - destroying the train and emitter completely.

It doesnt make sense for Ra's to jam the controls - a train going full speed slamming into the 'docking bay' of Wayne Tower would be demolished. The emitter wouldnt have time to work it's magic on the water maines. Hell, you saw hole long it took change the water to gas in the Narrows - several seconds at least, seconds it wouldnt have if it would have plowed into Wayne Towers.

Again, this all tying into the explanation I posted on the other page...that seems the most logical...atleast to me. Then again, plotholes in movies are hardly a rare thing.

As to who builds a monorail system without an emergency break? Thomas Wayne, it appears. :p

The first and second times I watched it, I thought Ra's jammed the controls...the 3rd time it seemed like Batman. I'm going w/ Batman right now...until I see it again. :)

[The Kid]

Perhaps it was damaged along with the other controls?

possible but very very very very very very very very unlikely.:)

I, or my dad actually, been in the transit business since forever, should know...

but I'll let batman slide since spiderman overlooked the emergency brakes and car releases in ever single frelling car on the train in its movie too.

[The Sage]

The first and second times I watched it, I thought Ra's jammed the controls...the 3rd time it seemed like Batman. I'm going w/ Batman right now...until I see it again. :)

It was Ra's my friend, I'm sure of it.

[Bishop2]

The first and second times I watched it, I thought Ra's jammed the controls...the 3rd time it seemed like Batman. I'm going w/ Batman right now...until I see it again. :)

And once again we come back to the recurring theme of: These action sequences were not terribly well-directed.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Ra's jammed the controls........I'm sure ALL will know it when the DVD comes out.....but trust me,......Ra's jammed it with his sword/cane when he attacked Bruce from behind.

[Vile]

I find it very hard to believe that Ra's would jam the controls. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[batmanfan03]

he also had to turn off the microwave right???

[guitarsingerguy]

Yeah, I just saw it again yesterday. Ra's did jam the controls, but I don't think Batman ever had any intentions to stop the train. I think he wanted Ra's to jam the controls thinking he had gotten the upper hand. Who knows. ChrisBaleBatman is right. We won't really know for sure until the DVD comes out.

[DACrowe]

1. He wanted to stop the brakes so the train would not stop.

2. He wanted to kill Ra's (and yes he did kill Ra's just like he killed Joker in B'89).

Not much more else to be said.

Oh well.

[Orlando Spider]

Guys guys.... you're getting it all wrong.

There were just fighting each other to establish dominancy over their territory!!!

GEEZ :rolleyes:

[Whack Arnolds]

Ra's jammed it, so Batman couldn't stop the train. Cause otherwise Batman wouldn't have had to blow up the monorail near Wayne Enterprises.

[Vile]

Yeah but if Ra's jammed it he's destroying the train and emitter anyways - it makes NO sense for Ra's to jam it.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Wait.........Batman WANTED Ra's to jam the controls.......?

Are you kidding me.......c'mon, who the hell plasn on someone JAMMING the controls?
For that, he should have jammed it himself.


Ra's jammed it in the middle of the battle.........he went to attack Bruce and in the scuffle, he accidently jammed the controls.

The way it seemed, Batman's plan was to stop the train himself........but, He KNOWS his opponent.......Ra's just ain't a pushover. So, he had Jim Gordon as the back up plan in case the train got too close to Wayne Tower.......which it did. So, since the train got close to Wayne Tower.......Gordon blasted the tracks.

What is about Ra's jamming the controls that "makes no sense" exactly......? It was an accident......so that makes sense.

[Whack Arnolds]

Wait.........Batman WANTED Ra's to jam the controls.......?

Are you kidding me.......c'mon, who the hell plasn on someone JAMMING the controls?
For that, he should have jammed it himself.


Ra's jammed it in the middle of the battle.........he went to attack Bruce and in the scuffle, he accidently jammed the controls.

The way it seemed, Batman's plan was to stop the train himself........but, He KNOWS his opponent.......Ra's just ain't a pushover. So, he had Jim Gordon as the back up plan in case the train got too close to Wayne Tower.......which it did. So, since the train got close to Wayne Tower.......Gordon blasted the tracks.

What is about Ra's jamming the controls that "makes no sense" exactly......? It was an accident......so that makes sense.

Exactly, lol. Thats why Bats went to the train in the first place. So he could stop the train manually, but of course Ra's is going to fool proof his plan...so Ra's breaks the controls, thus making Bats use his back up plan...which was too have Gordon take out the end of the rail, just in case he couldn't stop the train himself.

[Robin91939]

He shoved the screwdriver into the controls to make sure he didn't stop the train. That's why.
I don't think that that was a screwdriver, but the sword after Batman had broken it.

-R

[JLBats]

Why did he fight Ra's on the train?


Fun.

[uzazil]

I have a question how did batman stay on the monerail? If u watch those big beams went over the track and the track was attatched to the sides. Batman's line should have been snapped or batman at least should have been killed how do u explain that lil' error

[Spider-Who?]

did anyone notice that justbefore batman soars out of the monorail, theres a close up of his face and it seemed to me (on my 2nd veiwing) that his eyes flashed white really quickly, making it look like they do in the comics? or is it just me?

[Attikus]

Well said TempleFugit.

Attikus

[knifeedgedave]

I noticed it, as though ras was still under the effects of the flower.

Batman went on to the monorail because Ras would have just seen the batmobile and stopped the train. He needed to distract Ras, and ensure the emitters destruction.

[criticalcasting]

The real reason Batman went after Ra's on the monorail was probably just so he could determine quien es mas macho. :p


Heheh. I like that answer.:hyper:

But I like to think about it this way, if that scene didn't happen, then we wouldn't have gotten any reason to watch that awesome visual of Batman drifting backward out the back of the traincar with his cape spread open. Damn, that image is now forever emblazened in my memory.:batman:

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I have a question how did batman stay on the monerail? If u watch those big beams went over the track and the track was attatched to the sides. Batman's line should have been snapped or batman at least should have been killed how do u explain that lil' error


Nah......the train seemed to be different than the older train tracks......it looked pretty modern, and the beams seemed to be on the smaller sides of the train.

I actually LOVED that scene.......it was so cool the way he broke through to the train window.

And I agree......that scene when Batman escapes the train.......BADASS.

[Vile]

Wait.........Batman WANTED Ra's to jam the controls.......?

Are you kidding me.......c'mon, who the hell plasn on someone JAMMING the controls?
For that, he should have jammed it himself.


Ra's jammed it in the middle of the battle.........he went to attack Bruce and in the scuffle, he accidently jammed the controls.

The way it seemed, Batman's plan was to stop the train himself........but, He KNOWS his opponent.......Ra's just ain't a pushover. So, he had Jim Gordon as the back up plan in case the train got too close to Wayne Tower.......which it did. So, since the train got close to Wayne Tower.......Gordon blasted the tracks.

What is about Ra's jamming the controls that "makes no sense" exactly......? It was an accident......so that makes sense.

What I'm saying is that Batman clearly jammed the controls when it became aparent he wasnt going to take Ra's down anytime soon. Remember, his initial plan the WHOLE time was to stop the train from being loaded - thus ever LEAVING the station. (Gordon being plan B incase he failed.)

I don't believe it was an accident (Ra's wasnt going down anytime soon, and for all he knew Gordon could have driven the damn tumbler into the river)- what 'doesnt make sense' to ME, is that people say Ra's jammed the controls. To do so would defeat his entire PLAN.

[knifeedgedave]

During the scuffle, batman clearly tried to push ras' arm with knike in hand into the circuitry

[The Guard]

I don't think anything was "clear" in that struggle. Don't remember that. I remember Batman gong to the controls and Ra's stabbing/hitting him in the back of the head/neck with the blade, then taking out the controls with the jagged end of the blade.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Dude.......Ra's didn't do it on purpose........it was an accident.

Bruce was trying to STOP the train by using the controls......but Ra's snuck up behind him to lay a smackdown......and Ra's jammed the controls........and they started fighting.

[knifeedgedave]

''...you can't stop this train."
"Who said anything about stopping it?"

He was counting on Ras assuming he would stop the train, thats why he sped it up instead.

[Mr. Socko]

Because thats how it was written in the script...

[LostSon88]

Batman's original plan was to stop Ras from loading the emitter onto the train...FAILED.

Plan B was to stop the train before it reached Wayne Tower...FAILED.


(Remember, Batman tried to stop the train using the controls...it was Ras who intervened and stabbed his own sword into the controls.)

Plan C was to destroy the tracks to prevent the train from reaching Wayne Tower...SUCCESS.


(When Batman said, "Who said anything about stopping it?" he was being sarcastic and wanted Ras to realize that he just screwed himself)

:Yoda Voice: Always with a gameplan, the Batman is...

[The Kid]

Because thats how it was written in the script...

yeah duh. Some people just aren't cool enough to know that I guess.

[Phaser]

:Yoda Voice: Always with a gameplan, the Batman is...

I can't stop laughing imagining that one. :D :up:

[Two-Face]

Maybe I missed the explanation, but why did Batman go after Ra's instead of driving the Batmobile himself to the Wayne building to blow up the monorail supports? Was he there just to make sure he didn't make a premature departure?


Ra's is skillful fighter there only man can match him it's BATMAN since Bruce learned from him. I enjoyed watching them two fight "student vs teacher"

[Katsuro]

Wow, who dug this thread up from last year?

Heres my take: regardless of who actually damaged the controls, it was all part of Batman's plan to have the controls jammed (well, one of his plans). See, when he says "Who said anything about stopping it", he's basically revealing that his intention was not to stop the train, but to prevent it from being stopped.

I really dont think Ra's wanted to jam the controls so he would just plow right through the station.

I like how this scene shows how smart Batman is. He doesnt' just go into a situation without thinking it through. And he doens't just develop one plan, he develops like five.

[Phaser]

Actually, here's how it all really happened (quoting a post of mine from another similiar thread):


Actually, now that you mention it, Batman DID have three different plans to stop Ra's.

Plan A
Like he said to Gordon, "I'm going to stop them from loading that train" i.e, stop Ra's from even loading the microwave emitter on the monorail. Plan A fails because of Ra's ninjas keeping Batman busy, due to which he then proceeds to...

Plan B
Which is Batman trying to stop the monorail himself by taking out Ra's on board and halting the train in it's tracks, which again fails because Ra's spikes the controls. Which leaves him to...

Plan C
This was Batman's trump card, his ace in the hole, his contingency plan, his final backup. Should all else fail, he had Gordon destroy the tracks to crash the train before it reaches the main hub in Wayne tower.

It's very interesting to note that Batman does his level best to stop Ra's before things get out of hand so much that his final contingency plan kicks in, because it was ultimately the most destructive option. He wanted to save the city with minimal loss of life/property, which is quite a reverse from his havoc-wreaking escape from the GCPD pursuit in the Tumbler while trying to save a dying Rachel. It's an excellent indicator of the character's growth in such a short period of time in the film. Guess that grilling Alfred gives him for his impulsive and somewhat reckless behaviour (a Year One trademark) in the Tumbler chase worked wonders. :up:

Heres my take: regardless of who actually damaged the controls, it was all part of Batman's plan to have the controls jammed (well, one of his plans). See, when he says "Who said anything about stopping it", he's basically revealing that his intention was not to stop the train, but to prevent it from being stopped.

No, his intention was in fact to stop the train at all costs. That's why Batman goes for the controls after knocking Ra's back when he breaks Ra's sword in two. But Ra's attacks Batman from behind and then busts the controls so that there's no way the train could be stopped, which is exactly why Ra's says "you can't stop this train". Now when Ra's busts the controls, Batman's plan C immediately comes into effect, which involves crashing the train to prevent it from reaching Wayne Tower rather than halting it in it's tracks, hence the "who said anything about stopping it" line by Batman.

I really dont think Ra's wanted to jam the controls so he would just plow right through the station.

Ra's goal all along was just to somehow get the microwave emitter to Wayne Tower, which would blow the main hub (and practically Wayne Tower along with it since Wayne Tower was "sitting right on top of the main hub"). Essentially speaking, Ra's had become pretty much suicidal in his desperation to stop Batman from thwarting his plan.

I like how this scene shows how smart Batman is. He doesnt' just go into a situation without thinking it through. And he doens't just develop one plan, he develops like five.

That much is true.

[The Kid]

I'd have just blown up the train tracks and eaten pie afterwards.

What I think batman meant to do was save ducard but I haven't seen this movie in a year so I dont really know for sure.

[Phaser]

I'd have just blown up the train tracks and eaten pie afterwards.

What I think batman meant to do was save ducard but I haven't seen this movie in a year so I dont really know for sure.

No, Batman wanted to save the city with as less collateral damage as possible. Blowing up the tracks and crashing the monorail was the most destructive option, which is why he made it a contingency plan rather his main strategy to stop the train.

[Katsuro]

No, Batman wanted to save the city with as less collateral damage as possible. Blowing up the tracks and crashing the monorail was the most destructive option, which is why he made it a contingency plan rather his main strategy to stop the train.

Not to mention he had to be there to stop Ra's from just stopping the train and escaping.

[Mr. Socko]

No, Batman wanted to save the city with as less collateral damage as possible. Blowing up the tracks and crashing the monorail was the most destructive option, which is why he made it a contingency plan rather his main strategy to stop the train.

You have a very cool avvy:up:

[zer00]

Just to go with a simpler explanation and...something I like

It's a movie. And it needs a good climatic battle to end said movie.

So in fact...that's the point of it.

[The Kid]

No, Batman wanted to save the city with as less collateral damage as possible. Blowing up the tracks and crashing the monorail was the most destructive option, which is why he made it a contingency plan rather his main strategy to stop the train.

You may be wrong about him wanting to stop the loading. Here's the line from the movie.

Batman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/): I can't stop them from loading the train. But we can stop the train itself from reaching Wayne Tower.

I got that from inmdb memorable quotes section IF it's dif from the movie, then someone confirm that please.

[Bishop2]

You may be wrong about him wanting to stop the loading. Here's the line from the movie.

Batman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/): I can't stop them from loading the train. But we can stop the train itself from reaching Wayne Tower.

I got that from inmdb memorable quotes section IF it's dif from the movie, then someone confirm that please.

Yeah, that line's never spoken in the movie...

[LostSon88]

Yeah...go re-watch that scene.

[The Kid]

I don't have the movie.

[LostSon88]

BLASPHEMY! :mad:





































j/p :p

Anyway, the actual line is, "I'm gonna stop them from loading that train but I may need your help."

[The Kid]

oh. ok. someone should tell imdb they got he wrong line then.

[LostSon88]

Don't bother...imdb is wrong most of time anyway.

[Hellrider]

He wanted to get Ra's himself so that Ra's couldnt stop the train and get away; If he escaped Gotham would still be in danger.

[LostSon88]

Ra's never had the intentions of escaping...it was Wayne Tower or bust.

He was that desperate...

[Hellrider]

Ra's never had the intentions of escaping...it was Wayne Tower or bust.

He was that desperate...

He prolly was that desperate... He wouldnt have run off, but would have just formulated another plan. Bruce had to not only stop the train and the emitter but he had stop Ra's aswell. If Ra's saw that the tracks ahead were blown off, I'm sure he would've have stop and escaped to find another way. He couldnt let Ra's escape only to return stronger, with more men, and a another plan. He relied on Gordon to blow up the tracks. It was the best way to stop the emitter and Ra's aswell... I dunno, that was my take on it.

[XCharlieX]

Yep other folks got it right imo.. Bruce made SURE one way or another to halt the train as quickly as possible. And the battle of idealogies there is brilliant. Both want "justice" they just have vastly different ways of going about it. And the part where Al Ghul looked at the track ahead and realized he killed himself by destroying the controls is classic.

[Shawn Wayne]

Yep other folks got it right imo.. Bruce made SURE one way or another to halt the train as quickly as possible. And the battle of idealogies there is brilliant. Both want "justice" they just have vastly different ways of going about it. And the part where Al Ghul looked at the track ahead and realized he killed himself by destroying the controls is classic.



I think Batman killed the controls...

[XCharlieX]

No i think that was Al Ghul... i paused it and saw a sleeve cuff. That was directed at a weird angle so i knew some folks wouldnt see that. It looks to me Al Ghul had the broken handle and stub of the sword, and he stabed the controls with it. Why would batman send the train barreling toward the tower? He got up there to stop the train. Al ghul was trying to make sure his plan was executed.

[Vile]

Why would Batman send the train barreling toward the tower?

Well, if Gordon failed the train would simply slam into the tower - destroying not only the train, but also the emitter.

Doesnt make much sense for Ra's to destroy the controls. If the emitter is destroyed, Gotham doesnt get it's dose of fear.

[El Payaso]

Thanks to this I don't know what the whole secquence is about anymore. :D

[Monstera]

Why would Batman send the train barreling toward the tower?

Well, if Gordon failed the train would simply slam into the tower - destroying not only the train, but also the emitter.

Doesnt make much sense for Ra's to destroy the controls. If the emitter is destroyed, Gotham doesnt get it's dose of fear.

Wrong. Phaser has it right.

[The Kid]

Thanks to this I don't know what the whole secquence is about anymore. :D

I never really did, but it's cool. When holmes defeated scare cr:confused:w, I passed out from disbelief and never really saw how it ended anway.

[XCharlieX]

Wrong. Phaser has it right. EXACTLY... I read Phasers post just now... he hit it on the head. er..to people who think batman did it..watch the sequence again lol sleeve cuff and shiny leather glove is seen WITH his stubby sword stabbing the controls... I just checked it again yesterday to write the post lol yes the angle looks like the batman did it but it was a bad angle and the next scene has al ghuls arm stabbing the controls. And he has everything to gain by destroying the controls.... all he has to do is get it to the hub however means possible which will explode, sending the gas across the city.

[El Payaso]

I never really did, but it's cool. When holmes defeated scare cr:confused:w, I passed out from disbelief and never really saw how it ended anway.

Heh. Can't blame you. The Scarecrow/Rachel "combat" (sarcasm there) was too embarrassing. That's one of the few little but powerful reasons why I can't consider Begins as the best Bat-movie.

[Vile]

And he has everything to gain by destroying the controls.... all he has to do is get it to the hub however means possible which will explode, sending the gas across the city.

He has to get the activated emitter to the hub, yes - but if the train can't stop it'll simply slam into the building, demolishing the train as well as the emitter.

No emitter, no gas.

Could be wrong, but that makes more sense to me.

[Monstera]

WHy do you keep thinking the train will slam into the building? It'll just go through the docking area and back out (like a monorail station), and thus go OVER the hub and blast it with the Microwave Emitter's pulse.

[El Payaso]

Is Monstera finally explaining something that the movie didn't?

I'm digging that explanation.

[Monstera]

I don't think I'm even looking that into it. It's obvious Wayne Towers is the center of the monorail, and it should follow that it's thus a monorail station (the chief one, no less). The monorail probably loops around the city and thus a train should be able to go through that station and back out the other side-- continuing the loop. I never saw this as a plothole. In fact the only plothole I can think of is someone who worked on the Tumbler could ID it from the news footage. Then again, it IS dark, but I think law enforcement would spend the resources to have the video blown up and analyzed. But I try not to be that anal.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Nah...it was Ra's that destroyed the controls. Guranteed. He destroyed them with his cane-sword.

As for the Tumbler being ID'ed......it was in the dark musty dusty cellar of Wayne Enterprises......it must have been there for a couple of years....and if someone did notice it, Wayne Enterprise could always claim it was stolen....lack of security, whatever. Earle got fired anyways too....so, incompetence was part of the problem too, they could claim.

[El Payaso]

Nah...it was Ra's that destroyed the controls. Guranteed. He destroyed them with his cane-sword.

Damn edition.

[Spare-Flair]

Gordon is the backup plan. Technically Batman FAILED on the train since he didn't manage to stop Ra's from sabotaging the controls.

If he didn't send Gordon as the backup (possibly killing Batman himself if Ra's had pinned him down or knocked him out), Ra's would have won.