'Batman came and went' - Avi Arad

[Pickle-El]

Not sure if you guys have listened to the Avi Arad interview (just a day or two ago) He takes some nice swipes at Batman (How Spiderman made more in 10 days than BB will..), Superman, Goyer, and DC in general.....check it out. (Funny how he neglects to say how good of a 'movie' BB was though...jagoff)


http://www.iesb.net/videointerviews/aviaradclip4int.php

And PLEASE don't say I'm starting anything....I didn't say these things, Avi did. I just thought you guys would like to know.

[akut401]

if he wants to think in terms of money, let him....to me, batman begins was better than spider-man could ever be.

[TheBeastWithin]

Not sure if you guys have listened to the Avi Arad interview (just a day or two ago) He takes some nice swipes at Batman (How Spiderman made more in 10 days than BB will..), Superman, Goyer, and DC in general.....check it out. (Funny how he neglects to say how good of a 'movie' BB was though...jagoff)


http://www.iesb.net/videointerviews/aviaradclip4int.php

And PLEASE don't say I'm starting anything....I didn't say these things, Avi did. I just thought you guys would like to know.
I love Spider-Man and Batman Begins but that's just pathetic. Batman Begins is the kind of movie Marvel wished Hulk was.

[TheVileOne]

Aside from Spider-man, Spider-man 2, and X-2, Batman Begins is going to make more money than anything Avi Arad was ever involved with.

[Dark Knight]

Not sure if you guys have listened to the Avi Arad interview (just a day or two ago) He takes some nice swipes at Batman (How Spiderman made more in 10 days than BB will..), Superman, Goyer, and DC in general.....check it out. (Funny how he neglects to say how good of a 'movie' BB was though...jagoff)


http://www.iesb.net/videointerviews/aviaradclip4int.php

And PLEASE don't say I'm starting anything....I didn't say these things, Avi did. I just thought you guys would like to know.



this just goes to show how stupidly narrow minded and greedy Avi is....as i have been saying all along! The only good Marvel films he has produced has been X-2 and the Spidey films ......the rest have sucked major balls....and i'm thinking F4 will not be a good film either. Avi is a greedy idiot! And doesn't it seem like he always does this damn Marvel upcoming slate announcements like every other freakin month?? It's like shut the hell up already.....he is so freakin annoying!

[Dark Knight]

if he wants to think in terms of money, let him....to me, batman begins was better than spider-man could ever be.

exactly!

[Paradoxium]

Don't worry, unless this turns into mud flinging, Arad deserves flack for this type of crap. This man is same the guy responsible for oversaturating the market with comic films. I makes me more weary of doing anymore business with Marvel films in the future.

[Ita-KalEl]

EDITED (no movie-wars) :rolleyes:

[MUGSY]

if he wants to think in terms of money, let him....to me, batman begins was better than spider-man could ever be.

Well said

[tmeader]

I love Spider-Man and Batman Begins but that's just pathetic. Batman Begins is the kind of movie Marvel wished Hulk was.

Yeah, I watched that interview. And I agree that comparing Batman to Spider-man is a ridiculous comparison:

1) No way in hell Avi Arad predicted that Spider-man would gross over 400 million. To act holier than thou about it now, as if Spider-man was just a given to make that much, comes off to me in a very bad light. 400 million is a one in a thousand type of film, and no film coming out is ever thought of in advance to make that much... it's just unrealistic.

2) Comparing Spider-man (Marvel's, undisputed, most popular character) to Batman (DC's, arguably, most popular character) as movies go is not a 1 to 1 comparison. On the one hand you had a character who'd never had a film before in his 30+ year history. With Batman, you had a character who had 4 films in 8 years recently, with the last one, only 8 years ago, being one of the worst films of ALL TIME.

3) This isn't Ari's fault, but you have WB/DC not communicating properly to the general public that Batman is a complete reset of the franchise. I can't tell you the number of people I've heard describe this as a "prequel". It's infuriating.

Honestly, Spider-man and Shrek 2 might be a couple of the last films to gross that much in a theatrical run. I mean, if Revenge of the Sith can't do it, that's scary. The theater institution is in trouble due to the directions in which it's pushed itself the past ten year (higher and higher budgets, faster releases, more movies, less time in the theater... worse quality)... we will never again have a film like Titanic. Titanic made 600+ million thanks to teenage girls obsessed with Leonardo Dicaprio. Three girls I know EACH saw Titanic TWELVE times in the theater during its run. If Titanic came out today, besides the fact that the DVD would be out 5 months later, most of those girls would get a "good enough" bootleg off the internet (not saying it's acceptable) and gotten their fix that way.

[Phoenix2088]

The guy is an asshat, that sums it up.

[Gamma Ray]

if he wants to think in terms of money, let him....to me, batman begins was better than spider-man could ever be.

Here, here!

[DACrowe]

Everyone knows Arad is an *******. I as a Marvel fan knows he is an *******. I appreciate what he did with the first two X-Men movies and the Spider-Man franchise but that is it.

He and Foster got together and butchered Daredevil to make it more "fun and kid-friendly." He helped market Hulk as a fun action movie (Hulk wasn't that good anyways, but it is always bad business to be untruthful), he sold Elektra out to a quick cash-in spin-off and then stabbed it and Bowman and Garner (who when he talked about beforehand came off as a sick old man pervert) in the back.

He then said "It will never happen again" even though he and Fox within a 6 month time frame ****ed X-Men up the ass. Not only did he help lose Singer, as a spiteful son of a ***** he and Fox rushed X3 without a director or script to beat SR to theaters. The result is several talented directors turning down the effort for "there wasn't enough time" and a shotty script that rehashed X2 while runing the Pheonex Saga nad killing off Xavier and Cyclops while making Halle Berry the lead was accepted and Brett "I was fired from Superman and made After the Sunset" Ratner was hired.



Believe me, we Marvel fans know Arad is full of ****. He just got lucky when he put Singer in charge of X-Men (and then he and Rothman unintentionally ran him off) and Sam Raimi with Spider-Man. It is the Sony producers and Sam Raimi that makes those such a success, Arad is just along for the ride.

So **** Arad.


And he is saying this for Fantastic Four, which yes could make more than BB, but not much, however if bad (and with Tim "I directed Taxi" Story at the helm and Doom ****ed up this is a very likely scernio with a 50/50 split right now, and the trailers really don't make it look very deep either) it will bomb and be the beginning of the end of Marvel films save for Spider-Man.

So **** Arad.


Had to get that off my chest.

[Ita-KalEl]

Imo Avi Arad is an arrogant. I will happy if FF will bomb :joker:

[Dark Knight]

Don't worry, unless this turns into mud flinging, Arad deserves flack for this type of crap. This man is same the guy responsible for oversaturating the market with comic films. I makes me more weary of doing anymore business with Marvel films in the future.


exactly....he has become a greedy marvel idiot tool! Avi Arad sucks!

[Dark Knight]

oh and the X-2 film and the Spidey films were not run by him completely.....those films were Singers and Raimis creations.....not dumb ass Avi's. He has become a joke! :joker:

[JLBats]

Arad is more concerned with selling action figures than making decent movies.

[Dark Knight]

2) Comparing Spider-man (Marvel's, undisputed, most popular character) to Batman (DC's, arguably, most popular character) as movies go is not a 1 to 1 comparison. On the one hand you had a character who'd never had a film before in his 30+ year history. With Batman, you had a character who had 4 films in 8 years recently, with the last one, only 8 years ago, being one of the worst films of ALL TIME. (quote)


thats exactly.....the big difference that Avi Arad doesn't want to think about does he??? He has no credibility...and he is a freakin idiotic tool!

[greenlantern530]

Haha, that's pretty sad, this isn't rap, he's dissing WB and BB for no reason. I guess he's jealous that BB is a better movie than any of his Marvel movies. What's funny is, if DC offered him more money to head DC movies, he would leave in a second. He deserves F4 to flop for those comments, that would be hilarious.

[Batman2005]

lol

childish

Haven't heard Chris Nolan talking like that.

[David Ford, RPD]

Arad is more concerned with selling action figures than making decent movies.

Bingo. He is Marvel's Jon Peters.

[Batman2005]

Everyone knows Arad is an *******. I as a Marvel fan knows he is an *******. I appreciate what he did with the first two X-Men movies and the Spider-Man franchise but that is it.

He and Foster got together and butchered Daredevil to make it more "fun and kid-friendly." He helped market Hulk as a fun action movie (Hulk wasn't that good anyways, but it is always bad business to be untruthful), he sold Elektra out to a quick cash-in spin-off and then stabbed it and Bowman and Garner (who when he talked about beforehand came off as a sick old man pervert) in the back.

He then said "It will never happen again" even though he and Fox within a 6 month time frame ****ed X-Men up the ass. Not only did he help lose Singer, as a spiteful son of a ***** he and Fox rushed X3 without a director or script to beat SR to theaters. The result is several talented directors turning down the effort for "there wasn't enough time" and a shotty script that rehashed X2 while runing the Pheonex Saga nad killing off Xavier and Cyclops while making Halle Berry the lead was accepted and Brett "I was fired from Superman and made After the Sunset" Ratner was hired.



Believe me, we Marvel fans know Arad is full of ****. He just got lucky when he put Singer in charge of X-Men (and then he and Rothman unintentionally ran him off) and Sam Raimi with Spider-Man. It is the Sony producers and Sam Raimi that makes those such a success, Arad is just along for the ride.

So **** Arad.


And he is saying this for Fantastic Four, which yes could make more than BB, but not much, however if bad (and with Tim "I directed Taxi" Story at the helm and Doom ****ed up this is a very likely scernio with a 50/50 split right now, and the trailers really don't make it look very deep either) it will bomb and be the beginning of the end of Marvel films save for Spider-Man.

So **** Arad.


Had to get that off my chest.
very informative..

[Dark Knight]

i'm staying away from F4 as long as possible......because

1. i have never been a big F4 fan......

2. the movie doesn't look like it will be good.....

3. because it is my way of saying "screw you"! to Arad..... :joker:

[greenlantern530]

lol

childish

Haven't heard Chris Nolan talking like that.

And you won't. He probably won't even respond. Goyer most likely will though.

[Bishop2]

if he wants to think in terms of money, let him....to me, batman begins was better than spider-man could ever be.

Preach, brother.

[Ita-KalEl]

Bingo. He is Marvel's Jon Peters.

LOL Infact!
A gigantic FF flop would be a great "present" for that man.

[logan_weapon_x]

Is he a dumbass? no!! Is he arrogant? Yes. But kids thats how he makes his money.

[Bishop2]

LOL Infact!
A gigantic FF flop would be a great "present" for that man.

Do we have to be so damn harsh on FF to wish it failure? He already tasted total defeat when Elektra came out this year.

Personally, Batman is my favorite DC character and the FF are my favorite Marvel characters. I hope both films kick ass (and Batman already did).

[DACrowe]

Well we haven't heard Nolan talk like this but we did hear Goyer say "Marvel is ruined, it is Warner's/DC's time at the movies."

And let's not sink to Goyer (the weak link of BB IMO) and Arad's level. I mean there is no reason to say BB is better than X2 or SM2, etc.

And let's hope FF is good. If it is good it will do well. If it does well we get more superhero movies. If it does bad combined with X3 failing next year (yes I am saying it will fail) superhero films could be in trouble. Arad is already about to have his downfall on X3, let's just hope FF somehow turns out good for the sake of comic movies, unless all you want in 5 years is no more superhero movies after SM3 and BB3.

[Super_Ludacris]

lol Avi that Eurotrash

Batman came and went eh?

well so did

Daredevil, Hulk, Punisher, Elektra...........

[JLBats]

Watching it, Arad sounds like an angry dumbass... whoa, weird...

[Milkman95]

Yeah, I've never been fond of Avi - he's all about greed. And Bishop is right, he's had 3 BOMBS in a row - Punisher, Blade III, and Elektra. No need to trample on a man's grave.............

[블라스]

I have no problems with Marvel movies, Hell, I love Spidey 1 and 2, Hulk, X 1 and 2, and DD: DC.
But as a huge Batman fan, I only have to say 1 thing about this individual...

Wow.
I'm shocked at his total lack of class :down

[TheDarkKnight]

A guy who bases how good a movie is based on box-office numbers has lost his way, and shouldn't be watching movies anymore if that's how he looks at it.

[Bishop2]

Yeah, I've never been fond of Avi - he's all about greed. And Bishop is right, he's had 3 BOMBS in a row - Punisher, Blade III, and Elektra. No need to trample on a man's grave.............

I wouldn't really go so far as to call Punisher or Blade "bombs." I mean, Blade was a failure/disappointment, but it wasn't a massive BOMB. I usually think of bombs as being HUGE failures. And Punisher was so cheap to make that it apparently did well enough to justify a sequel, somehow...

But Elektra? That was a friggin' BOMB.

[Retroman]

Is he a dumbass? no!! Is he arrogant? Yes. But kids thats how he makes his money.
Well said. You have to be a arrogant in this business to make it. That just the way the cookie crumbles.

[Ita-KalEl]

Well we haven't heard Nolan talk like this but we did hear Goyer say "Marvel is ruined, it is Warner's/DC's time at the movies."

And let's not sink to Goyer (the weak link of BB IMO) and Arad's level. I mean there is no reason to say BB is better than X2 or SM2, etc.

And let's hope FF is good. If it is good it will do well. If it does well we get more superhero movies. If it does bad combined with X3 failing next year (yes I am saying it will fail) superhero films could be in trouble. Arad is already about to have his downfall on X3, let's just hope FF somehow turns out good for the sake of comic movies, unless all you want in 5 years is no more superhero movies after SM3 and BB3.

No, because Superman Returns, Spiderman 3 and the sequel of this Batman will be huge success.
Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider and X3 if bad can be flops. And I'm sure that FF isn't a better film than BB, so I hope for a flop.

[Paradoxium]

Look folks I know some of you guys are passionate Bat fans (some of you know I am a big Batfan as well) lets avoid doing collateral damage on F4 (bash it) due to this. You are above this.

[Bishop2]

And I'm sure that FF isn't a better film than BB, so I hope for a flop.

Why can't they both be successful?

[Milkman95]

I wouldn't really go so far as to call Punisher or Blade "bombs." I mean, Blade was a failure/disappointment, but it wasn't a massive BOMB. I usually think of bombs as being HUGE failures. And Punisher was so cheap to make that it apparently did well enough to justify a sequel, somehow...

But Elektra? That was a friggin' BOMB.

Well, if you want to get technical, Punisher made it's money on the DVD release, and so will Blade III. Going by just box office numbers, all three of these are considered very disappointing, with Elektra taking CINO's title. Didn't CINO make more money than Elektra? That's a complete joke...........

[TheVileOne]

CINO did make more, but it also COST a lot more as well. Though Elektra got even savaged worse by the critics.

[Dark Knight]

Well said. You have to be a arrogant in this business to make it. That just the way the cookie crumbles.


he has no reason to be arrogant though! his bombs outway the success' of the Marvel films he has "produced"! He is a freakin greedy asinine idiot.....who deserves F4 to not do well! It looks like a silly crap film anyway......is it just me or doesn't it remind anyone of Lost in Space?? LOL...... :joker:

[Batman2005]

lol Avi that Eurotrash

Batman came and went eh?

well so did

Daredevil, Hulk, Punisher, Elektra...........true.. if the string of disappointing marvel comic movies continues, the comic book film industry will be in tatters. he should be happy that a movie like batman comes along and is a brilliant FILM and a boon to the genre.. he should be happy that comic book movies genre is in a better state for chris nolan's batman. but no, that's not what it's about to him

[Ita-KalEl]

Because of Arad ;)

Ok so I can hope that FF will not beat BB at boxoffice

[Dark Knight]

Why can't they both be successful?


because Avi Arad doesn't deserve F4 be succesful so his dumb ego won't be inflated anymore......i want him to be fired if anything! F4 looks lame anyway.......

[Retroman]

Why can't they both be successful?
Good question. If Marvel movies start 'tanking' then it'll start affecting DC/Warner movies too. Marvel movies needs DC movies - DC movies need Marvel movies.

[Super_Ludacris]

Well said. You have to be a arrogant in this business to make it. That just the way the cookie crumbles.


actually no, you can still show class and make your paper

[Super_Ludacris]

lol@ Avi thinking X-Men gonna have a bigger audience than Superman

[greenlantern530]

Good question. If Marvel movies start 'tanking' then it'll start affecting DC/Warner movies too. Marvel movies needs DC movies - DC movies need Marvel movies.

Arad doesn't think this way. Goyer doesn't either.

[Ita-KalEl]

Good question. If Marvel movies start 'tanking' then it'll start affecting DC/Warner movies too. Marvel movies needs DC movies - DC movies need Marvel movies.

Yes, but Who needs Avi Arad?

[batman 833]

Okay I Am Tired Of Avi Arad And All The Bull**** He Says Hes Even Worst Than Stan Lee Which Says The Same Thing Of Each Of His Movies That They Are Great Movies, Let Me Tell You This: Neither Of Them Know **** About Movies, They Know Only About Comics, Spiderman Is A Good Movie But Not Great, Imagine If James Cameron Would Have Done Spiderman That Would Have Been A Great Movie,spiderman And Spidey 2 Made Lots Of Money Not Because They Were Good Movies But Because Its A Colorfull Superhero Movie That Caughts The Attention Of Every Single Kid, And They Dragged Their Parents To See It, They Are Family Friendly Movies With A Lot Of One Liners And Comedy, Batman Begins In The Other Hand Is A Serious Movie An Adult Oriented Film With A Complicated Pshichological Profound Plot, Great Acting, A Complete Work Of Art Not Short Of Oscar Worthy, Wich Spiderman By The Way Is Not, So I Prefer A Great Spectacular Movie That Doesnt Make Huge Box Office Profits Than An Eye Candy Movie Which Lacks Intelligence That Makes Lots Of Money, Avi Arad Is Full Of **** Honestly.

[The Riddler]

he is arrogant, but who can blame him?

begins has seriously underperformed at the box office (which has nothing to do with the quality) while marvel's heavy hitters on-par with batman are doing so much better.

sure i think begins is better than spidey 2, but it's been surprisingly dissapointing at the box office and at the end of the day, you measure a movie by awards/critical acclaim and/or overall gross and begins is getting butt stomped in the latter.

[Dark Knight]

A guy who bases how good a movie is based on box-office numbers has lost his way, and shouldn't be watching movies anymore if that's how he looks at it.


exactly......

[Bishop2]

Imagine If James Cameron Would Have Done Spiderman That Would Have Been A Great Movie

HELL NO.

HELL no.

Have you ever read Cameron's script treatment? (http://scifiscripts.com/scripts/spidermanscriptment.txt)

HORRIFYING.

[Knives]

I wont lower myself to Arad's level by bashing Fantastic Four until I SEE IT. I am very much looking foward to it and i think it looks excellent. Whether it will BE excellent remains to be seen. But if its a good film, i wont wish failure on it due to Arad. And if Batman Begins "came and went", why is it still making plenty of money. He doesn't take into account the baggage Batman came with. It has 2 HORRENDOUS sequels to make up for, which are still very fresh on everyone's minds. It took word of mouth to boost Batman. After people were assured that Begins wasnt another horrid disaster like the previous two, the people went to see it, and its still making plenty of money. It wont reach Spiderman's numbers, but i can tell you this: The Batman Begins sequel WILL reach Spiderman numbers, becuase this movie is so good, and so many people are enjoying it, that they wont wait to see the sequel, they will rush out to see it, just like they did the X-Men movies. And speaking of X-Men, if that first daft of the script is what is going to be used, prepare to see that franchise FAIL, and Superman Returns be a colossal box office smash. They lost Bryan Singer due to Arad and FOX's incompitance, now they will suffer for it.

Avi Arad is a SCHILL. Thats all he is. A schill. As much as i love the Spiderman and X-Men movies and The Punisher movie, Batman Begins is far better than any of those. He can keep on schilling, but in the end, the quality of the work is what speaks for itself, and no amount of banter from him will change that.

[The Sage]

Well, the Marvel vs DC film wars have officially begun....

[Carmine Falcone]

i'm staying away from F4 as long as possible......because

1. i have never been a big F4 fan......

2. the movie doesn't look like it will be good.....

3. because it is my way of saying "screw you"! to Arad..... :joker:


I will stay away from it because of:

''right on cue!''

and

''let's not fight''
''no, let's''

*vomits*

[greenlantern530]

Okay I Am Tired Of Avi Arad And All The Bull**** He Says Hes Even Worst Than Stan Lee Which Says The Same Thing Of Each Of His Movies That They Are Great Movies, Let Me Tell You This: Neither Of Them Know **** About Movies, They Know Only About Comics, Spiderman Is A Good Movie But Not Great, Imagine If James Cameron Would Have Done Spiderman That Would Have Been A Great Movie,spiderman And Spidey 2 Made Lots Of Money Not Because They Were Good Movies But Because Its A Colorfull Superhero Movie That Caughts The Attention Of Every Single Kid, And They Dragged Their Parents To See It, They Are Family Friendly Movies With A Lot Of One Liners And Comedy, Batman Begins In The Other Hand Is A Serious Movie An Adult Oriented Film With A Complicated Pshichological Profound Plot, Great Acting, A Complete Work Of Art Not Short Of Oscar Worthy, Wich Spiderman By The Way Is Not, So I Prefer A Great Spectacular Movie That Doesnt Make Huge Box Office Profits Than An Eye Candy Movie Which Lacks Intelligence That Makes Lots Of Money, Avi Arad Is Full Of **** Honestly.

Damn straight!

[Bishop2]

''let's not fight''
''no, let's''

As much as I like that exchange, I'm sick of getting it drilled into my head.

[Carmine Falcone]

it's just very corny.

[The Riddler]

wtf are you guys so mad about.

[The Riddler]

he is arrogant, but who can blame him?

begins has seriously underperformed at the box office (which has nothing to do with the quality) while marvel's heavy hitters on-par with batman are doing so much better.

sure i think begins is better than spidey 2, but it's been surprisingly dissapointing at the box office and at the end of the day, you measure a movie by awards/critical acclaim and/or overall gross and begins is getting butt stomped in the latter.
:up:

[Bishop2]

it's just very corny.

I don't think it's any cornier than "Does it come in black?" was, which is to say not. :)

But I'm a huge FF fan. :)

[Dark Knight]

he is arrogant, but who can blame him?

begins has seriously underperformed at the box office (which has nothing to do with the quality) while marvel's heavy hitters on-par with batman are doing so much better.

sure i think begins is better than spidey 2, but it's been surprisingly dissapointing at the box office and at the end of the day, you measure a movie by awards/critical and/or overall gross and begins is getting butt stomped in the latter.


you looking at just box office numbers is not a good thing buddy.......eeewwwww. BB is doing fine at box office by the way.....overseas it is doing strong also....and will contine to do so....as the word of mouth of how good the movie is continues to spread.

[Carmine Falcone]

But I'm a huge FF fan. :)

that explains it.

[The Riddler]

you looking at just box office numbers is not a good thing buddy.......eeewwwww. BB is doing fine at box office by the way.....overseas it is doing strong also....and will contine to do so....as the word of mouth of how good the movie is continues to spread.
yeah, looking at the box office is not good why?

if begins was doing spidey numbers we'd all be rubbing it into people's faces.

face it, begins has UNDERPERFORMED and you measure a movie on two things: critical acclaim/awards AND the box office.

accept it.

[Bishop2]

that explains it.

As I said before, I love Batman and the FF equally. They are my favorite characters from each publisher.

I doubt FF has any chance to be as great as Batman Begins was, simply because it doesn't look like they did Doom justice. Everybody else looks great, though, so I hope they get the main four right. :)

[The Sage]

:up:

Fortunately in terms of quality, BB is stomping a mudhole in those heavy-hitters. Box office, it's not bad for a movie that's adult-oriented, has a bad film in its history, plus opened up in the middle of a box office slump.

[Super_Ludacris]

he is arrogant, but who can blame him?

begins has seriously underperformed at the box office (which has nothing to do with the quality) while marvel's heavy hitters on-par with batman are doing so much better.

sure i think begins is better than spidey 2, but it's been surprisingly dissapointing at the box office and at the end of the day, you measure a movie by awards/critical acclaim and/or overall gross and begins is getting butt stomped in the latter.


$ 130 Mil during an overall struggling box office slump= GOOD

[tmeader]

he is arrogant, but who can blame him?

begins has seriously underperformed at the box office (which has nothing to do with the quality) while marvel's heavy hitters on-par with batman are doing so much better.

sure i think begins is better than spidey 2, but it's been surprisingly dissapointing at the box office and at the end of the day, you measure a movie by awards/critical and/or overall gross and begins is getting butt stomped in the latter.

It's underperformed, no question. But please "butt stomped"? After this weekend it will have 150 million in 3 weeks. That is NOT horrible business no matter how you look at it. It should easily eek up to 175-180 million at this point, perhaps more. That is not a flop. It might not be up to the expectations some people set, but certainly not a flop. Say it pulls to an end run of 350 million WW, that means that (assuming the studio keeps 55% percent of returns, thus BB only needs to make 272 million to break even) it will end with an almost 80 million dollar profit, at the box office alone. So just keep in mind, anything beyond 272 million world wide box office is pure profit for Batman. It's safe to say WB isn't too upset about this prospect.

[Carmine Falcone]

As I said before, I love Batman and the FF equally. They are my favorite characters from each publisher.

I doubt FF has any chance to be as great as Batman Begins was, simply because it doesn't look like they did Doom justice. Everybody else looks great, though, so I hope they get the main four right. :)

I thought it looked pretty good in the beginning, but with every trailer I got less exicted. I'll see it on DVD though.

[Dark Knight]

I will stay away from it because of:

''right on cue!''

and

''let's not fight''
''no, let's''

*vomits*

haha....i know....thats Alba back to her Dark Angel days huh?? LOL.......vomit......

Jessica "I'm all eye candy but can't act" Alba as the Invisible woman??? The director from TAXI is the one in charge?? The Things foam fake lookin suit.......and Chris Evans thinking he is so great in this film.......he sucks! I'm telling you...this film looks like Lost in Space....

[The Riddler]

Fortunately in terms of quality, BB is stomping a mudhole in those heavy-hitters. Box office, it's not bad for a movie that's adult-oriented, has a bad film in its history, plus opened up in the middle of a box office slump.
sure, but it's not even close to spider-man numbers, when it should be.

also, it is getting good reviews but critics as a whole liked spider-man 2 a whole lot as well.

since both films got good reviews, it comes down to the box office and that isn't a contest.

[Milkman95]

Well, if WOTW's numbers are any indication, BB is performing great for a re-start and a fifth movie in a franchise that was DEAD just 8 years ago.

Marvel's heavy hitters? They have TWO - Spider-man and X-Men. The Batman franchise has out-grossed the X-Men franchise as well. You can compare X-Men to Batman, and Spider-man to Superman......that's how you compare them.....Dark with dark and lighter with lighter....

[Dark Knight]

Fortunately in terms of quality, BB is stomping a mudhole in those heavy-hitters. Box office, it's not bad for a movie that's adult-oriented, has a bad film in its history, plus opened up in the middle of a box office slump.


exactly....plus i believe it's worldwide gross is already around the 250 million range....?

[The Riddler]

$ 130 Mil during an overall struggling box office slump= GOOD
hahah.

yes, because star wars wasn't launched in around the same time period. :rolleyes:

sure it could never get to star wars or spidey numbers but that fact that it isn't even close is the problem.

[The Sage]

sure, but it's not even close to spider-man numbers, when it should be.

also, it is getting good reviews but critics as a whole liked spider-man 2 a whole lot as well.

since both films got good reviews, it comes down to the box office and that isn't a contest.

Spider-Man didn't have a bad film in its history. And being the first post 9/11 superhero film must've been a good help as well.

[Milkman95]

sure, but it's not even close to spider-man numbers, when it should be.

also, it is getting good reviews but critics as a whole liked spider-man 2 a whole lot as well.

since both films got good reviews, it comes down to the box office and that isn't a contest.

For the last time genius - you can't compare Spider-man to Batman, sorry. When Superman Returns comes out next year, you can compare that to Spider-man until your blue in the face..............that's the correct comparison. What's next? You comparing Sin City to The Incredibles?

[The Riddler]

It's underperformed, no question. But please "butt stomped"? After this weekend it will have 150 million in 3 weeks. That is NOT horrible business no matter how you look at it. It should easily eek up to 175-180 million at this point, perhaps more. That is not a flop. It might not be up to the expectations some people set, but certainly not a flop. Say it pulls to an end run of 350 million WW, that means that (assuming the studio keeps 55% percent of returns, thus BB only needs to make 272 million to break even) it will end with an almost 80 million dollar profit, at the box office alone. So just keep in mind, anything beyond 272 million world wide box office is pure profit for Batman. It's safe to say WB isn't too upset about this prospect.
i said it got butt stomped, not it flopped.

when i say butt-stomped i mean in direct comparision with marvel films, ala spider-man.

[Ita-KalEl]

he is arrogant, but who can blame him?

begins has seriously underperformed at the box office (which has nothing to do with the quality) while marvel's heavy hitters on-par with batman are doing so much better.

sure i think begins is better than spidey 2, but it's been surprisingly dissapointing at the box office and at the end of the day, you measure a movie by awards/critical acclaim and/or overall gross and begins is getting butt stomped in the latter.

I blame him, because he's talking about Spiderman vs Batman Begins box office results. Spiderman is unbeateable, expecially during this year. I'm very interested to know how FF will do next week. And I would like to have an interview with arad after the release of his movies not before as he likes to do.

[The Riddler]

Spider-Man didn't have a bad film in its history. And being the first post 9/11 superhero film must've been a good help as well.
what about spider-man 2?

maybe not in a slump but it did soo much better you can't just blame a "slump".

[greenlantern530]

:up:

You just gave yourself a thumbs up. :o

[Spidey-Bat]

Why doesn't he wait to open his mouth after FF comes out? I'd love it if that made less money in 10 days than BB did in one. How the tables would have turned.

[The Riddler]

For the last time genius - you can't compare Spider-man to Batman, sorry. When Superman Returns comes out next year, you can compare that to Spider-man until your blue in the face..............that's the correct comparison. What's next? You comparing Sin City to The Incredibles?
spider-man 2 can be compared to batman begins because

1. they're both movies

2. they're both based on top tier super heroes

that is enough.

[Dark Knight]

yeah, looking at the box office is not good why?

if begins was doing spidey numbers we'd all be rubbing it into people's faces.

face it, begins has UNDERPERFORMED and you measure a movie on two things: critical acclaim/awards AND the box office.

accept it.


box office isn't what movies are about buddy.....to the greedy executives yes......but to people who truely appreciate what making film and movies are all about......yeah..box office is DEFINATELY not that important. Making a quality film and movie is what IS important. Don't lose your way.....

[Milkman95]

This is hilarious Riddler. Spider-man is the only franchise in the Marvel line-up to out-gross Batman.........we're done here, don't make me list them......

[The Riddler]

I blame him, because he's talking about Spiderman vs Batman Begins box office results. Spiderman is unbeateable, expecially during this year. I'm very interested to know how FF will do next week. And I would like to have an interview with arad after the release of his movies not before as he likes to do.
but FF isn't as popular as batman and never will be.

at least spider-man is on equal playing ground, popularity wise.

[Super_Ludacris]

Who the hell thought BB was making 100 + in 6 days??? no one so I aint really mad.

Avi still in the red for half the marvel flicks he's knocked out

[Kal-El 8]

Not sure if you guys have listened to the Avi Arad interview (just a day or two ago) He takes some nice swipes at Batman (How Spiderman made more in 10 days than BB will..), Superman, Goyer, and DC in general.....check it out. (Funny how he neglects to say how good of a 'movie' BB was though...jagoff)


http://www.iesb.net/videointerviews/aviaradclip4int.php

And PLEASE don't say I'm starting anything....I didn't say these things, Avi did. I just thought you guys would like to know.


Avi Arad is an ass , First of all the only reason BB didn't make 50 million is because a lot of people thought it was going to be like Batman & Robin, and has Avi forgot that a lot of fans hated "The Hulk", because the story sucked. so anything Avi says about BATMAN is a bunch of Bull, And BATMAN begins is better than Spiderman & spiderman 2 .

[The Riddler]

This is hilarious Riddler. Spider-man is the only franchise in the Marvel line-up to out-gross Batman.........we're done here, don't make me list them......
x-men 2 did.

[Dark Knight]

For the last time genius - you can't compare Spider-man to Batman, sorry. When Superman Returns comes out next year, you can compare that to Spider-man until your blue in the face..............that's the correct comparison. What's next? You comparing Sin City to The Incredibles?


LOL......good one..... :hq:

[The Riddler]

You just gave yourself a thumbs up. :o
it's not my fault people were ignoring my post for the most part.

[The Sage]

what about spider-man 2?

maybe not in a slump but it did soo much better you can't just blame a "slump".

Didn't have a bad film in its history. :o

[Super_Ludacris]

You just gave yourself a thumbs up. :o


He does it everynight and still doesn't think his **** stinks

[The Riddler]

LOL......good one..... :hq:
actually it wasn't. :rolleyes:

[Kal-El 8]

Avi still in the red for half the marvel flicks he's knocked out

very true, the only movie that made Big bucks at BO was Spider-man & Spider-man 2 in marvel.

[Milkman95]

spider-man 2 can be compared to batman begins because

1. they're both movies

2. they're both based on top tier super heroes

that is enough.

No, I don't think so junior. They have so many differences it's hilarious.......They're top tier, but way different. The fair thing to do is compare Spider-man to Superman like I said earlier...........

[Super_Ludacris]

actually it wasn't. :rolleyes:


Are you just mad cause Edward Nygma was in a schumacher film?

[The Riddler]

Didn't have a bad film in its history. :o
yeah because batman and robin really affected it that much.

8 freakin' years.

also, there was a lot of positive hype about begins. it's hard to explain why it's not doing so much better.

[Milkman95]

x-men 2 did.

Nope. 1989's Batman, when adjusted for inflation made over $400m. Bye-bye.......

[Dark Knight]

Why doesn't he wait to open his mouth after FF comes out? I'd love it if that made less money in 10 days than BB did in one. How the tables would have turned.


F4 will not have legs after it's first weekend. Mark my words......! More people will watch BEGINS and WOTW....then the lame F4......and the word will spread.

"Oh....how was F4"? "Uhh....it was alright".....sigh.....

haha......watch i guarantee you guys will be hearing that plenty everywhere. ;)

[The Riddler]

No, I don't think so junior. They have so many differences it's hilarious.......They're top tier, but way different. The fair thing to do is compare Spider-man to Superman like I said earlier...........
who cares if they're different? every hero is from one another.

the thing is, they are both some of teh most popular heroes, EVER, and so in turn, they should both gross similarly.

[The Sage]

yeah because batman and robin really affected it that much.

8 freakin' years.

also, there was a lot of positive hype about begins. it's hard to explain why it's not doing so much better.

It's been 7 years since the Lewinsky stuff. You don't think people still remember it when they think of Clinton?

Let's see...bad film in history, not a kid-friendly film that caters to all...box office slump.

[Dark Knight]

Spider-Man didn't have a bad film in its history. And being the first post 9/11 superhero film must've been a good help as well.


exactly...... :up:

[The Riddler]

Nope. 1989's Batman, when adjusted for inflation made over $400m. Bye-bye.......
does anyone care about batman 89?!

we're talking about batman begins, here and now with recent movies of teh modern era. :rolleyes:

[Ita-KalEl]

Hey Arad look at this chart:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=superhero.htm

And don't forget Constantine that did better than Blade and Blade Trinity.

[Knives]

Hey Arad look at this chart:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=superhero.htm

And don't forget Constantine that did better than Blade and Blade Trinity.

The Blade movies cost less than Constantine did though. In terms of quality, i love both Blade and Constantine, but Blade Trinity was AWEFUL.

[SpyderDan]

Wow. I usually like Avi, but this time he's pissed me off. That comment is kind of out of line.

[The Sage]

Hey Arad look at this chart:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=superhero.htm

And don't forget Constantine that did better than Blade and Blade Trinity.

Wow, Batman & Robin did better than Daredevil, Blade, Blade II, and Catwoman did more than Punisher.

[The Riddler]

It's been 7 years since the Lewinsky stuff. You don't think people still remember it when they think of Clinton?

Let's see...bad film in history, not a kid-friendly film that caters to all...box office slump.
a suck ass movie can't be compared to a scandal in the white house.

also, these are reasons why begins has underperformed and frankly, no one cares why it is underperforming, but that it is.

[Super_Ludacris]

Spider-Man 1 and 2 had more adverts, more tie in promotions, it was the first time the charecter was on the big screen, therefore it had a BM 89 and Supes 78 feel to it's hype.
Marvel's fanboys are more dedicated (you saw that pasty faced nerd on the DV of SM1 with the spidey mask on "I'm seeing the movie 6 times in one day" no-nookie getting frucka)

E! and ET both had Spider-Man specials running in the summer 2002 and 2004. Not that half and hour behind the scens crap but like one-hour specials

Tha actors all did the runs on the talk shows (Letterman, Leno, Conan etc). Apart from Katie on Letterman I haven't seen anything

it had 2 soundtracks with videos that were promoted crazy (sum 41, Chad Kroger and Josey Scott, Dashboard Confessional, Ana Johannsen, Switchfoot videos were on the radio and video outlets). Batman didn't have a soundtrack. I've been telling people for years that soundtracks are great promotions for films. Because music and movies go hand and hand.

Columbia pimped Spidey hard

[Milkman95]

does anyone care about batman 89?!

we're talking about batman begins, here and now with recent movies of teh modern era. :rolleyes:

Hey clown - you said X2 out-grossed Batman, which is ALL the films. If we stick to BB, I'm sure BB will out-do X2 worldwide, even if the comparison is unfair since we're comparing an origin film to a sequel...........

BB2 against X2 is the correct comparison. Also, in regards to you're hilarious rant about Spider-man, Batman is a darker character, and history shows it's never had the appeal of Spider-man. Spider-man is a cute, action-packed movie about a teenager - it's more relatable, of course it will make more money........I just happen to prefer an adult character that strives to avenge his parents death more, that's all.............

[The Sage]

a suck ass movie can't be compared to a scandal in the white house.

also, these are reasons why begins has underperformed and frankly, no one cares why it is underperforming, but that it is.

Oh, so basically you've been debating for no reason. You just wanted to state over and over that BB is underperforming compared to the Marvel heavy hitters who didn't have the pressure BB had when entering the Box Office. :o

[The Riddler]

Spider-Man 1 and 2 had more adverts, more tie in promotions, it was the first time the charecter was on the big screen, therefore it had a BM 89 and Supes 78 feel to it's hype.
Marvel's fanboys are more dedicated (you saw that pasty faced nerd on the DV of SM1 with the spidey mask on "I'm seeing the movie 6 times in one day" no-nookie getting frucka)

E! and ET both had Spider-Man specials running in the summer 2002 and 2004. Not that half and hour behind the scens crap but like one-hour specials

Tha actors all did the runs on the talk shows (Letterman, Leno, Conan etc). Apart from Katie on Letterman I haven't seen anything

it had 2 soundtracks with videos that were promoted crazy (sum 41, Chad Kroger and Josey Scott, Dashboard Confessional, Ana Johannsen, Switchfoot videos were on the radio and video outlets). Batman didn't have a soundtrack. I've been telling people for years that soundtracks are great promotions for films. Because music and movies go hand and hand.

Columbia pimped Spidey hardand warner didn't do the same. that's why begins is not doing well. :up:

[The Sage]

and warner didn't do the same. that's why begins is not doing well. :up:

But I thought you just said you didn't care why Begins isn't doing well?

[The Riddler]

But I thought you just said you didn't care why Begins isn't doing well?
i don't, i'm just agreeing with the useless stuff he posted.

[Ita-KalEl]

For the Riddler: Yes but BB is near to beat XMEN (that are comparable to batman as importance)
You can say that it would beat X2, but probably it will happen with the sequel of Nolan's movie.

I repeat: I'm very interested to know ho FF will do this summer.

[The Riddler]

Oh, so basically you've been debating for no reason. You just wanted to state over and over that BB is underperforming compared to the Marvel heavy hitters who didn't have the pressure BB had when entering the Box Office. :o
is that NOT all is said in my first statement?

it isn't my fault you blind rabid fanboys jumped on me with your barely decipherable posts. :down

(not neccesarily about sage)

[tmeader]

i said it got butt stomped, not it flopped.

when i say butt-stomped i mean in direct comparision with marvel films, ala spider-man.

As I've mentioned in another thread, comparing Batman to Spider-man is an idiotic comparison. They're both "superheros"... great. It's like comparing Star Wars to Alien. They're the same, aren't they? They both have aliens in them and take place in outerspace... why the hell couldn't Alien gross 400 million dollars. What's its problem?

Alien clearly is a box office disappointment within its genre.

Honestly, Batman Begins should not be classified in the "superhero" genre. There needs to be a new category for films like Road to Perdition, From Hell, Batman Begins, The Crow, and Sin City. These are graphic novel movies (Bale even stressed this point in interviews), meant mainly for adults. Spider-man was a great film, but compared to Batman Begins, it's anywhere near the same tone. I can love them both, but I understand the differences between the two. It's those differences that pretty much guarantee that the audience for Batman films (done like this) will NEVER be as large as Spider-man.

As for Spider-man 2... of course it did well. It was the follow-up to a great, fun movie. You'll notice however that, being the more character driven of the two... it earned less than the first. Some of this might be attributable to the fact that Spider-man 2 was in fact a sequel, and just not as fresh as the first. But largely I think it points out the sad fact that a lot of people aren't looking for heavy character driven drama during the summer. Look at Episode III compared to Episode I. That is indisputably the best of the three prequels, and the most character driven. It has yet to do as well Episode I, which is by far the worst of the three.

[Super_Ludacris]

i don't, i'm just agreeing with the useless stuff he posted.


Batman is still doing well without that extra hype though that's the point.

Now crawl back under that bridge troll

[The Sage]

i don't, i'm just agreeing with the useless stuff he posted.

If you don't care then why are you agreeing? If it's useless then why waste time to agree with it?

[The Riddler]

Hey clown - you said X2 out-grossed Batman, which is ALL the films. If we stick to BB, I'm sure BB will out-do X2 worldwide, even if the comparison is unfair since we're comparing an origin film to a sequel...........

BB2 against X2 is the correct comparison. Also, in regards to you're hilarious rant about Spider-man, Batman is a darker character, and history shows it's never had the appeal of Spider-man. Spider-man is a cute, action-packed movie about a teenager - it's more relatable, of course it will make more money........I just happen to prefer an adult character that strives to avenge his parents death more, that's all.............
what? of course i mean begins, not ALL the batman films. :rolleyes:

and as for spidey and batman, they can be compared no matter how different.

like in football, even if two teams have different strengths, they can still be compared because they're both football teams in the nfl.

[The Riddler]

If you don't care then why are you agreeing? If it's useless then why waste time to agree with it?
it's another post. :up:

[Super_Ludacris]

You lost chump :)

[The Riddler]

For the Riddler: Yes but BB is near to beat XMEN (that are comparable to batman as importance)
You can say that it would beat X2, but probably it will happen with the sequel of Nolan's movie.

I repeat: I'm very interested to know ho FF will do this summer.
batman is a bigger icon than the x-men, though.

[Dark Knight]

Hey clown - you said X2 out-grossed Batman, which is ALL the films. If we stick to BB, I'm sure BB will out-do X2 worldwide, even if the comparison is unfair since we're comparing an origin film to a sequel...........

BB2 against X2 is the correct comparison. Also, in regards to you're hilarious rant about Spider-man, Batman is a darker character, and history shows it's never had the appeal of Spider-man. Spider-man is a cute, action-packed movie about a teenager - it's more relatable, of course it will make more money........I just happen to prefer an adult character that strives to avenge his parents death more, that's all.............


Remember.....Riddler is just promoting hate........what a clown huh? lol :hq:

[The Sage]

it's another post. :up:

So you're just one of those guys who likes perpetuate an argument for no apparent reason, no goal, and absolutely no purpose.

[The Riddler]

Batman is still doing well without that extra hype though that's the point.

Now crawl back under that bridge troll
not it isn't.

it is underperforming. accept it.

[The Sage]

not it isn't.

it is underperforming. accept it.

Doing well considering the slump. :o

[Super_Ludacris]

not it isn't.

it is underperforming. accept it.


Have people called it a flop? Nope....

[Phoenix2088]

The only reason that BB "under performed" was that it's marketing was not very good. Commercials for a movie this size were not shown enough. Not enough tie-ins, etc. But BB is still making money, and should clear around 200 domestic, which is far from dissapointing.

[The Riddler]

As I've mentioned in another thread, comparing Batman to Spider-man is an idiotic comparison. They're both "superheros"... great. It's like comparing Star Wars to Alien. They're the same, aren't they? They both have aliens in them and take place in outerspace... why the hell couldn't Alien gross 400 million dollars. What's its problem?

Alien clearly is a box office disappointment within its genre.

Honestly, Batman Begins should not be classified in the "superhero" genre. There needs to be a new category for films like Road to Perdition, From Hell, Batman Begins, The Crow, and Sin City. These are graphic novel movies (Bale even stressed this point in interviews), meant mainly for adults. Spider-man was a great film, but compared to Batman Begins, it's anywhere near the same tone. I can love them both, but I understand the differences between the two. It's those differences that pretty much guarantee that the audience for Batman films (done like this) will NEVER be as large as Spider-man.

As for Spider-man 2... of course it did well. It was the follow-up to a great, fun movie. You'll notice however that, being the more character driven of the two... it earned less than the first. Some of this might be attributable to the fact that Spider-man 2 was in fact a sequel, and just not as fresh as the first. But largely I think it points out the sad fact that a lot of people aren't looking for heavy character driven drama during the summer. Look at Episode III compared to Episode I. That is indisputably the best of the three prequels, and the most character driven. It has yet to do as well Episode I, which is by far the worst of the three.star wars and aliens is a ridiculous comparision. your category is much to wide.

spidey and batman are in the same league, so to speak. plus, batman hasn't been on screen for 8 years.

there should be a fresh factor to it like you stated in your post. sure it was character driven, but that's just speculation on reasons why.

[The Riddler]

Have people called it a flop? Nope....
there's a difference between underperforming and a flop.

pluto nash is a flop.

begins isn't doing as well as it should.

[The Sage]

there's a difference between underperforming and a flop.

pluto nash is a flop.

begins isn't doing as well as it should.

It's doing well considering the state of the B.O. and the fact that it's more of an adult-film.

[bosef982]

I HATE Avi Arad!!!!!!!!!!!! I've always hated him. He sits back, attempting to spit out something resembling English as he tries to make it look like he actually has sort of substantive creative input into these films...

Every idea I hear he has (which according to the progress of X3, we'll see just how) has turned out to be crap. He wanted Doc Ock to be infatuated with Mary Jane, he wanted to crap both Doc Ock and GG into SM1, he had creative input on Hulk and Elektra, not to mention Daredevil, and look how that all turned out...

It just goes to show WHY people like Avi shouldn't be given more power like he is with X3, he judges cinema in dollars, not in plot and character. He's sitting around, spewing out all this "crap' about F4, and acting like its resounding success is some forgone conclusion...

Why can't he be like the people at DC and just have respect for other filmmakers? Is this too much to ask? Or are we seeing the inevitabilty of arrogance and of having too much pride before the great fall...? I swear, this guy should be fired...just goes to show how petty they are over there...and how shallow...and how DOOMED they really are...when DC makes it turn around and roars back into theatres with a vengeance, where will Avi Arad be, fired, cold-calling DC and WB reps to get a job...*******...

[The Riddler]

for the last time, i don't care WHY it is underperforming, but the point is for you blind loyalists to understand that IT IS.

i was also trying to say that avi arad is arrogant because his(marvel's) heavy hitters have been doing much better than begins, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Super_Ludacris]

there's a difference between underperforming and a flop.

pluto nash is a flop.

begins isn't doing as well as it should.


so tell me how much money you expected it to make after 2 and a half weeks

[Ita-KalEl]

The Riddler you can't say that XMEN aren't important as Batman.
Plus the XMEN movie was the first great superhero movie after the B&R debacle qith a different boxoffice (not the actual saturated one)

[tmeader]

Riddler: I would just add that it's pretty debatable right now to say that Batman is bigger than the X-men to the general movie going public, especially young adults. EVERYONE knows who the X-men are thanks to two recent films. But a lot of adults, say 18 to 21, were only 2 and 5 respectively when the Batman hype was in full swing in 89. THEY have been reared on Batman Forever and Batman and Robin as their two Batman films. I could see that leavinga sour taste in anyone's mouth. Not to mention that, aside from those two films, within their lifetimes, their exposure to Batman is probably no greater than that of X-men. Both had cartoon shows... that's about it. X-men's cartoon frequently more popular at that.

[Lucid]

----

[DrMylesOBoogie]

Spider-Man 1 and 2 had more adverts, more tie in promotions, it was the first time the charecter was on the big screen, therefore it had a BM 89 and Supes 78 feel to it's hype.
Marvel's fanboys are more dedicated (you saw that pasty faced nerd on the DV of SM1 with the spidey mask on "I'm seeing the movie 6 times in one day" no-nookie getting frucka)

E! and ET both had Spider-Man specials running in the summer 2002 and 2004. Not that half and hour behind the scens crap but like one-hour specials

Tha actors all did the runs on the talk shows (Letterman, Leno, Conan etc). Apart from Katie on Letterman I haven't seen anything

it had 2 soundtracks with videos that were promoted crazy (sum 41, Chad Kroger and Josey Scott, Dashboard Confessional, Ana Johannsen, Switchfoot videos were on the radio and video outlets). Batman didn't have a soundtrack. I've been telling people for years that soundtracks are great promotions for films. Because music and movies go hand and hand.

Columbia pimped Spidey hardGreat post. Had Begins had that type of promotion the box office would be alot better.

[The Sage]

for the last time, i don't care WHY it is underperforming, but the point is for you blind loyalists to understand that IT IS.

i was also trying to say that avi arad is arrogant because his(marvel's) heavy hitters have been doing much better than begins, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Arrogance loves arrogance.

[tmeader]

Riddler: I definitely agree that BB SHOULD be making more, no question. But considering the profit it will end up turning, I don't think WB's will be at all upset, nor be hesitant to make a sequel. Which is all we really should care about :)

[The Riddler]

Riddler: I would just add that it's pretty debatable right now to say that Batman is bigger than the X-men to the general movie going public, especially young adults. EVERYONE knows who the X-men are thanks to two recent films. But a lot of adults, say 18 to 21, were only 2 and 5 respectively when the Batman hype was in full swing in 89. THEY have been reared on Batman Forever and Batman and Robin as their two Batman films. I could see that leavinga sour taste in anyone's mouth. Not to mention that, aside from those two films, within their lifetimes, their exposure to Batman is probably no greater than that of X-men. Both had cartoon shows... that's about it. X-men's cartoon frequently more popular at that.
x-men versus batman?

there's no concrete proof, but it defintely seems like batman is MUCH more popular.

[Robin91939]

Yeah it pisses me a off a little bit that he said what he said about Batman.

But, the man is the head of Marvel, and I'm sure that WB and DC execs have said their fair share of **** about Arad and Marvel Studios. So I'm not surprised that he took the opprotunity to state a fact. The man has earned the right to be pompous. Yeah, he is greedy, but what he, and the rest of Marvel studios is doing is working. He talks about all of Marvels characters with passion, and seems to understand and love each title individually. Hey, has been able to not only bring the flagships of Marvel, Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four, and Hulk onto screen but Ghostrider, Punisher, Daredevil, Blade, Electra etc, and with other characters on the way such as Silver Surfer, Luke Cage, and others to be announced.
I wish that the WB/DC had someone that passionate about their characters. Yeah, he is concentrated on money and merchendise, but he is supposed to be concerned with the buisness of the buisness.

Someone complained about him giving too many "Marvel Studios Updates", well don't most of us complain about WB/DC not doing this enough.

Sure Batman Begins is the movie Marvel wanted HULK to be, but HULK still smashed the box office. Batman Begins, won't smash anazing, but it will have staying power. Its true what most of you are saying that Batman has had so many other movies, and Spiderman and X-men are brand new and that explains their appeal. I'm not going to sit here saying, oh Marvel movies suck, because I and most others would be lying, for the most part they are quality fantasy films. Batman Begins was an amazing film as well. Money and Box office really do not mean much to me, its about the quality of the film.
Superman next year will probably put Avi into his place, when the character that hasn't been 19 years since the last Superman film and 26 years since the last good Superman film.
But serously there is already enough bad blood between Marvel and DC, God knows why they shouldn't get along. For us to sit here and say, "well Fantastic Four won't be good anyway, that'll get to him". Things like that are just continuing the problem. The film will do well, and it will be a good film, who cares, isn't the goal to make superhero movies and make the well? Who cares if a producer or executive gets a little high on his horse.

Let's just enjoy the movies.

-R

[The Riddler]

Riddler: I definitely agree that BB SHOULD be making more, no question. But considering the profit it will end up turning, I don't think WB's will be at all upset, nor be hesitant to make a sequel. Which is all we really should care about :)
yeah, of course wb already announced a sequel.

i was just saying that it was udnerperforming and that's why avi arad was so smug and suddenly all these trolls jump out. :down

[Alonsovich]

We should remind Arad about the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s. We should remind him about Captain America, that first F4 film, DD, Elektra, The Hulk, The Punisher and Blade Trinity. You like it or not... DC has less bad films than Marvel. And you like it or not... Marvel has only dominated the last 5 years (and not even that), while DC dominated the 25 years that came before that. We should remind him the DC was the first company ever to make a film about their comics. And we should remind him that most of the DC characters were around 30 years before the Marvel ones.

[tmeader]

As for soundtracks helping a film... I never thought about that, but would tend to agree. Don't think for a second that that damn Evanescence song didn't add a good 10 mill to DD's box office. ;)

[The Riddler]

Arrogance loves arrogance.
point taken.

[The Sage]

We should remind Arad about the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s. We should remind him about Captain America, that first F4 film, DD, Elektra, The Hulk, The Punisher and Blade Trinity. You like it or not... DC has less bad films than Marvel. And you like it or not... Marvel has only dominated the last 5 years (and not even that), while DC dominated the 25 years that came before that. We should remind him the DC was the first company ever to make a film about their comics. And we should remind him that most of the DC characters were around 30 years before the Marvel ones.

We should remind him that a lot of Marvel characters "borrowed" some ideas from DC characters.

[Ita-KalEl]

I really want to see how FF will perform this summer against Batman Begins and XMEN3 against Superman Returns the next one . I need to laugh.

[Super_Ludacris]

Great post. Had Begins had that type of promotion the box office would be alot better.


and my point is that even without the hysteria of SM it's STILL doing a great job. Everyone knew this was gonna be a risk, Kevin Smith said because it this was the first time a famous mainstream super hero charecter was going an organic dark route for a film adaptation it was gonna be a risk. Well the results are in and it's passed all that.
No one said BB was gonna own the box office yet it's still taken down other contenders and made it's loot. And if you check WOTW is on the same pace in it's 5 day run as BB's. Does that make it a flop as well

[The Riddler]

X-Men has a wider audience than Superman? Wha? Avi is crazy.
that didn't make sense.

[The Sage]

yeah, of course wb already announced a sequel.

i was just saying that it was udnerperforming and that's why avi arad was so smug and suddenly all these trolls jump out. :down

Well actually, I think you're the troll in this predicament.

[Robin91939]

Also the true comparison isn't Batman Begins vs Spiderman, but instead a character that is like him, say Daredevil, Punisher, and Hulk. I am confident that in the end Batman Begins will outgross all of those, and has already been reconized as one of the greatest comic book movies ever.

-R

[The Riddler]

Well actually, I think you're the troll in this predicament.
how am i a troll?

trying to explain the actions of avi arad in front of rabid DC fanboys?

HAHA. yes, because if i'm not blind, i'm the troll. :rolleyes:

[tmeader]

Sure Batman Begins is the movie Marvel wanted HULK to be, but HULK still smashed the box office. Batman Begins, won't smash anazing, but it will have staying power.

Unless you're just talking about opening weekend, I'd have to disagree... since BB's has already beaten the Hulk.

[DrMylesOBoogie]

and my point is that even without the hysteria of SM it's STILL doing a great job. Everyone knew this was gonna be a risk, Kevin Smith said because it this was the first time a famous mainstream super hero charecter was going an organic dark route for a film adaptation it was gonna be a risk. Well the results are in and it's passed all that.
No one said BB was gonna own the box office yet it's still taken down other contenders and made it's loot. And if you check WOTW is on the same pace in it's 5 day run as BB's. Does that make it a flop as wellThe fantastic acclaim that Begins has gotten is helping but it could have been promoted better.

What are the numbers to how WOTW is doing? Anybody got a link?

[Super_Ludacris]

Well I'm no fanboy, I just don't think it's underperforming.So far all the reports from the Box Office thread said it's on pace or has done better than expected in some cases. This film was a risk but this along with Sin City proves you can make "adult" comic flicks. Read the articles dog

[Robin91939]

Unless you're just talking about opening weekend, I'd have to disagree... since BB's has already beaten the Hulk.
Opening week was an accurate assumtion :up:

-R

[The Sage]

how am i a troll?

trying to explain the actions of avi arad in front of rabid DC fanboys?

HAHA. yes, because if i'm not blind, i'm the troll. :rolleyes:

Actually it's because you don't really care about this argument, you're just doing it to do it and to add more posts to your count as if you've said before:

If you don't care then why are you agreeing? If it's useless then why waste time to agree with it?

it's another post. :up:

[aquiles]

Imo Avi Arad is an arrogant. I will happy if FF will bomb :joker:me too,i hope it bombs.

[Super_Ludacris]

The fantastic acclaim that Begins has gotten is helping but it could have been promoted better.

What are the numbers to how WOTW is doing? Anybody got a link?

Batman made $70 Mill in 5 days

EDIT: actualy today's friday isn't it? correction WOTW is ahead 50 mil :o

[tmeader]

Also the true comparison isn't Batman Begins vs Spiderman, but instead a character that is like him, say Daredevil, Punisher, and Hulk.

Hehe... I realize what you were trying to say, and I was right there with you on Punisher and Daredevil... but the Hulk? Hulk is like Batman? If you just mean that it's a more dramatic character driven film (which sadly Daredevil wasn't enough of), I guess I get the connection.

[Milkman95]

The fantastic acclaim that Begins has gotten is helping but it could have been promoted better.

What are the numbers to how WOTW is doing? Anybody got a link?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/

Disappointing box office.........

[The Riddler]

Well I'm no fanboy, I just don't think it's underperforming.So far all the reports from the Box Office thread said it's on pace or has done better than expected in some cases. This film was a risk but this along with Sin City proves you can make "adult" comic flicks. Read the articles dog
batman is one of the biggest super hero properties, ever.

a $48,745,440 weekend gross is weak, and when begins never grossed more than $20 million in one day, you know there's trouble.

[Super_Ludacris]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/

Disappointing box office.........

DOUBLE EDIT: WOTW is doing crap compared to Batman, but this weekend is the decider :o

[Milkman95]

Batman made $70 Mill in 5 days

EDIT: actualy today's friday isn't it? correction WOTW is ahead 50 mil :o

Wrong. $35.5m Wednesday and Thursday. $49m worldwide. BB ended up with a little over $72m for the 5 days.............

[spiderfan08]

why is everybody comparing hulk to batman begins? i am a marvel fan and i will tell you straight up the hulk sucked. it had its good points but overall, dissapointing. batman begins is much better than DD, hulk, i didn't even watch elektra b/c i heard it totally sucked. so there you go. you DC people can have at least one marvel fan telling you BB kicked ass and it was better than a lot of marvel's films.

[Super_Ludacris]

batman is one of the biggest super hero properties, ever.

a $48,745,440 weekend gross is weak, and when begins never grossed more than $20 million in one day, you know there's trouble.


you never read the box office thread did you?

[Robin91939]

Hehe... I realize what you were trying to say, and I was right there with you on Punisher and Daredevil... but the Hulk? Hulk is like Batman? If you just mean that it's a more dramatic character driven film (which sadly Daredevil wasn't enough of), I guess I get the connection.
Batman, Daredevil, and Punisher were dark films avenging the deaths of their families. While Hulk attempted to be a character film, that was dark and complicated.

-R

[The Riddler]

Actually it's because you don't really care about this argument, you're just doing it to do it and to add more posts to your count as if you've said before:
that's one extra post. boo hoo.

i thorougly disproved most of what you fanboys had to say.

begins is underperforming. avi arad should not be lambasted. those were the two points i've been trying to explain.

[Milkman95]

batman is one of the biggest super hero properties, ever.

a $48,745,440 weekend gross is weak, and when begins never grossed more than $20 million in one day, you know there's trouble.

Well, according to you, everything is weak since NOBODY is performing very well besides ROTS.......you'll also be disappointed with the rest of the summer.........

[The Riddler]

you never read the box office thread did you?
i posted 132 posts in that thread.

[Super_Ludacris]

i posted 132 posts in that thread.


and you still came out looking like an idiot :)

[The Riddler]

Well, according to you, everything is weak since NOBODY is performing very well besides ROTS.......you'll also be disappointed with the rest of the summer.........
yes, because war of the world just grossed 21 million in a wednesday when begins couldn't even gross that in one day during its whole run. :rolleyes:

[The Sage]

that's one extra post. boo hoo.

i thorougly disproved most of what you fanboys had to say.

begins is underperforming. avi arad should not be lambasted. those were the two points i've been trying to explain.

It's doing well considering the slump, the adult-focused tone, and was number one for two weeks.

[Super_Ludacris]

yes, because war of the world just grossed 21 million in a wednesday when begins couldn't even gross that in one day during its whole run. :rolleyes:


Begins grossed 17 Mil on the Wednesday, yeah a 4 mil difference is a real ass whopping

[The Riddler]

and you still came out looking like an idiot :)
are you stupid?

begins was underperforming, and for the most part, people agreed with me in that thread.

[spiderfan08]

It's doing well considering the slump, the adult-focused tone, and was number one for two weeks.

you have a point on the adult focused tone. spider-man is for kids and adults. parents are not taking there children to BB and that is hurting box office as well.

[Spidey-Bat]

We should remind him that a lot of Marvel characters "borrowed" some ideas from DC characters.

We should remind him he ran a toy company before Marvel

[DrMylesOBoogie]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/

Disappointing box office.........Thanks.

[The Riddler]

It's doing well considering the slump, the adult-focused tone, and was number one for two weeks.
so begins never crossing 20 million in one day doesn't mean one of the most anticipated blockbusters of the summer is underperforming?

[Super_Ludacris]

are you stupid?

begins was underperforming, and for the most part, people agreed with me in that thread.


Yeah on the first day, then look what happened, it shot up

[Attikus]

According to Avi Airhead, Batman came and went. Well X3 will be dead and buried from day one. Airhead lucked out big time with Spidey and X1, X2. He consistently screwed Singer over in terms of budget on the X-films and yet Singer was able to pull a miracle. Raimi always wanted to do a Batfilm and Ari was lucky enough to have Raimi deliver a good Spidey one and a great Spidey 2. But every other Marvel flick has been one disaster after another. Daredevil is completely unwatchable. Hulk has no third act. Punisher is a joke. It's about living in an apartment with freaks and Stamos' ex-wife. I won't even mention Jennifer Garner's debacle of a movie. And X3 is going to suck donkey balls with the Rat-ner directing. What about Ghost Rider? The audience is going to say Ghost who? Cage is too old to play Blaze. And the director of Ghost Rider directed Daredevil.

Good luck with your future slate Avi.

At least we have an Oscar calibre Batman film...and the sequel will be bigger and better, if that's possible.

Attikus

[Robin91939]

yes, because war of the world just grossed 21 million in a wednesday when begins couldn't even gross that in one day during its whole run. :rolleyes:
War of the Worlds opened in SUMMER, when Begins was released many highschools were still in session and taking finales to make things worse.

-R

[The Riddler]

what is avi arad being lambasted for?

he stated the fact that begins hasn't grossed what spidey did in 10 days. suddenly you're all up in arms about it.

[Milkman95]

yes, because war of the world just grossed 21 million in a wednesday when begins couldn't even gross that in one day during its whole run. :rolleyes:

It's AWFUL considering it has Tom Cruise, Steven Spielberg, and a movie based on a novel from 1898 that is widely popular.....Get over yourself.

[The Riddler]

War of the Worlds opened in SUMMER, when Begins was released many highschools were still in session and taking finales to make things worse.

-R
so you're sayign during the weekend right after scholl got out, you're saying that it still couldn't cross the measly 20 million dollar mark?

[raybia]

Not sure if you guys have listened to the Avi Arad interview (just a day or two ago) He takes some nice swipes at Batman (How Spiderman made more in 10 days than BB will..), Superman, Goyer, and DC in general.....check it out. (Funny how he neglects to say how good of a 'movie' BB was though...jagoff)


http://www.iesb.net/videointerviews/aviaradclip4int.php

And PLEASE don't say I'm starting anything....I didn't say these things, Avi did. I just thought you guys would like to know.

Not very intellegent is he? Doesn't he realize that both critically acclaimed and box office successful comic book movies, regardless of the company or studio, benefits the overall genre? Every successful comic book movie adaptation only increases the chance of some of the lesser known titles to made as well. Wouldn't be cool to have a Spectre or Legion of Superheroes movie?

[The Sage]

so begins never crossing 20 million in one day doesn't mean one of the most anticipated blockbusters of the summer is underperforming?

So staying number one for two weeks in the middle of a slump, with a bad film in its history, and an adult-oriented tone means it's underperforming?

[Ita-KalEl]

are you stupid?

begins was underperforming, and for the most part, people agreed with me in that thread.

What are you writing? You agreed to Arad when he says that "Batman came and left", but Batman is still here! You don't understand that BB has legs.

[Super_Ludacris]

what is avi arad being lambasted for?

he stated the fact that begins hasn't grossed what spidey did in 10 days. suddenly you're all up in arms about it.


Because it's a retarted argument, no one can make that kinda money

Now get your face out of his crotch

[The Riddler]

It's AWFUL considering it has Tom Cruise, Steven Spielberg, and a movie based on a novel from 1898 that is widely popular.....Get over yourself.
your post was *****ty to tell you the truth.

i was never talking about myself, and if you think that's awful you should think begins is underperforming. :up:

[The Riddler]

Because it's a retarted argument, no one can make that kinda money

Now get your face out of his crotch
nobody can, yet spider-man did.

haha. a contradiction, no?

and my face isn't in his crotch, it's in your idiots' faces drilling nothing but the fact that what arad said was nothing wrong and you're all being retarded for insulting him.

[Milkman95]

your post was *****ty to tell you the truth.

i was never talking about myself, and if you think that's awful you should think begins is underperforming. :up:

Yeah, but ALL films have been underperforming - it's NOT just Begins. BB held number one for 14 days straight - that's pretty good in my book. Despite the box office slump, BB is doing good. So is WOTW, even though that's not doing well either..........

[The Sage]

It's AWFUL considering it has Tom Cruise, Steven Spielberg, and a movie based on a novel from 1898 that is widely popular.....Get over yourself.

Because it's a retarted argument, no one can make that kinda money

Now get your face out of his crotch

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2815/batowned42qg.jpg

[The Riddler]

Yeah, but ALL films have been underperforming - it's NOT just Begins. BB held number one for 14 days straight - that's pretty good in my book. Despite the box office slump, BB is doing good. So is WOTW, even though that's not doing well either..........
there we go.

at least you admitted it was underperforming. :up:

[tmeader]

begins is underperforming. avi arad should not be lambasted. those were the two points i've been trying to explain.

I agree with your underperforming statement. But I disagree with not lambasting Avi Arad. He's proven more than once to be a guy that just doesn't give a crap about the films Marvel puts out, other than their two major properties. Elektra, Man-Thing, Daredevil (ruined in editing, which was LARGELY LARGELY Arad's decision... watch the directors cut piece about the two versions of the film. It's hilarious to listen to Arad defend his obviously inferior cut) and to extents the changes made in Punisher (though Thomas Jane proved to be a good choice) are all examples of this. His basic "F you, you all will see anything we put out anyway" attitude is what fires people up. Then, he makes an untrue statement about BB. If he'd said, "What a dissapointing opening!", that I would agree with him on. But to say, "It came and went" does make you look like an ass. The film is still number 2 at the box office, and should end with a 175-185 million dollar total. That isn't "came and went".

I'm not saying GOyer didn't come off looking like an ass in some of his interviews either. He did. But in this case, so did Arad... and he deserves lambasting for it.

[Milkman95]

there we go.

at least you admitted it was underperforming. :up:

Underperforming due to lack of OVERALL box office interest, NOT in Batman. Agree?

[Super_Ludacris]

nobody can, yet spider-man did.

haha. a contradiction, no?

and my face isn't in his crotch, it's in your idiots' faces drilling nothing but the fact that what arad said was nothing wrong and you're all being retarded for insulting him.


You know what I meant I explained it early. Spiderman and Star Wars make those numbers no one else, but Batman is doing great

and as far as arad goes I'm just sayig he's playing himself cause when a film is 1 at the box office I don't see how it came and went.

[The Sage]

I agree with your underperforming statement. But I disagree with not lambasting Avi Arad. He's proven more than once to be a guy that just doesn't give a crap about the films Marvel puts out, other than their two major properties. Elektra, Man-Thing, Daredevil (ruined in editing, which was LARGELY LARGELY Arad's decision... watch the directors cut piece about the two versions of the film. It's hilarious to listen to Arad defend his obviously inferior cut) and to extents the changes made in Punisher (though Thomas Jane proved to be a good choice) are all examples of this. His basic "F you, you all will see anything we put out anyway" attitude is what fires people up. Then, he makes an untrue statement about BB. If he'd said, "What a dissapointing opening!", that I would agree with him on. But to say, "It came and went" does make you look like an ass. The film is still number 2 at the box office, and should end with a 175-185 million dollar total. That isn't "came and went".

I'm not saying GOyer didn't come off looking like an ass in some of his interviews either. He did. But in this case, so did Arad... and he deserves lambasting for it.

Yep.

[The Riddler]

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2815/batowned42qg.jpg
HAHHAHA.

wow...those posts were particularly weak, and i just responded to both.

your posting of a nice picture of jim lee's art is nothing short of pathetic.

i like how you make up for your lack of words with a picture.

bravo.

[The Sage]

HAHHAHA.

wow...those posts were particularly weak, and i just responded to both.

your posting of a nice picture of jim lee's art is nothing short of pathetic.

i like how you make up for your lack of words with a picture.

bravo.

I like how you make up for your ignorance of the box office slump by comparing Batman Begins to superhero movies that didn't have a slump to overcome.

[Dark Knight]

I HATE Avi Arad!!!!!!!!!!!! I've always hated him. He sits back, attempting to spit out something resembling English as he tries to make it look like he actually has sort of substantive creative input into these films...

Every idea I hear he has (which according to the progress of X3, we'll see just how) has turned out to be crap. He wanted Doc Ock to be infatuated with Mary Jane, he wanted to crap both Doc Ock and GG into SM1, he had creative input on Hulk and Elektra, not to mention Daredevil, and look how that all turned out...

It just goes to show WHY people like Avi shouldn't be given more power like he is with X3, he judges cinema in dollars, not in plot and character. He's sitting around, spewing out all this "crap' about F4, and acting like its resounding success is some forgone conclusion...

Why can't he be like the people at DC and just have respect for other filmmakers? Is this too much to ask? Or are we seeing the inevitabilty of arrogance and of having too much pride before the great fall...? I swear, this guy should be fired...just goes to show how petty they are over there...and how shallow...and how DOOMED they really are...when DC makes it turn around and roars back into theatres with a vengeance, where will Avi Arad be, fired, cold-calling DC and WB reps to get a job...*******...


exactly.......Constantine and now Batman Begins were good starts for the renewal of DC superheroes onscreen. Next year Superman Returns will be do well most likely also as a QUALITY film and with the box office.......i can smell....the end of Avi Arad soon......very...very soon! LOL......

[Milkman95]

Again Riddler, the lower box office is an OVERALL thing, not just with Batman - it held the number one spot for 14 days. WOTW's lackluster box office is proof of that..........

[Robin91939]

what is avi arad being lambasted for?

he stated the fact that begins hasn't grossed what spidey did in 10 days. suddenly you're all up in arms about it.
Then I'll say it again. :rolleyes:

Yeah it pisses me a off a little bit that he said what he said about Batman.

But, the man is the head of Marvel, and I'm sure that WB and DC execs have said their fair share of **** about Arad and Marvel Studios. So I'm not surprised that he took the opprotunity to state a fact. The man has earned the right to be pompous. Yeah, he is greedy, but what he, and the rest of Marvel studios is doing is working. He talks about all of Marvels characters with passion, and seems to understand and love each title individually. Hey, has been able to not only bring the flagships of Marvel, Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four, and Hulk onto screen but Ghostrider, Punisher, Daredevil, Blade, Electra etc, and with other characters on the way such as Silver Surfer, Luke Cage, and others to be announced.
I wish that the WB/DC had someone that passionate about their characters. Yeah, he is concentrated on money and merchendise, but he is supposed to be concerned with the buisness of the buisness.

Someone complained about him giving too many "Marvel Studios Updates", well don't most of us complain about WB/DC not doing this enough.

Sure Batman Begins is the movie Marvel wanted HULK to be, but HULK still smashed the box office. Batman Begins, won't smash anazing, but it will have staying power. Its true what most of you are saying that Batman has had so many other movies, and Spiderman and X-men are brand new and that explains their appeal. I'm not going to sit here saying, oh Marvel movies suck, because I and most others would be lying, for the most part they are quality fantasy films. Batman Begins was an amazing film as well. Money and Box office really do not mean much to me, its about the quality of the film.
Superman next year will probably put Avi into his place, when the character that hasn't been 19 years since the last Superman film and 26 years since the last good Superman film.
But serously there is already enough bad blood between Marvel and DC, God knows why they shouldn't get along. For us to sit here and say, "well Fantastic Four won't be good anyway, that'll get to him". Things like that are just continuing the problem. The film will do well, and it will be a good film, who cares, isn't the goal to make superhero movies and make the well? Who cares if a producer or executive gets a little high on his horse.

Let's just enjoy the movies.

-R


:up:

-R

[The Riddler]

I agree with your underperforming statement. But I disagree with not lambasting Avi Arad. He's proven more than once to be a guy that just doesn't give a crap about the films Marvel puts out, other than their two major properties. Elektra, Man-Thing, Daredevil (ruined in editing, which was LARGELY LARGELY Arad's decision... watch the directors cut piece about the two versions of the film. It's hilarious to listen to Arad defend his obviously inferior cut) and to extents the changes made in Punisher (though Thomas Jane proved to be a good choice) are all examples of this. His basic "F you, you all will see anything we put out anyway" attitude is what fires people up. Then, he makes an untrue statement about BB. If he'd said, "What a dissapointing opening!", that I would agree with him on. But to say, "It came and went" does make you look like an ass. The film is still number 2 at the box office, and should end with a 175-185 million dollar total. That isn't "came and went".

I'm not saying GOyer didn't come off looking like an ass in some of his interviews either. He did. But in this case, so did Arad... and he deserves lambasting for it.i understand that the you can lambast him for OTHER things, but this wasn't even a big deal. he did seem like an ass but it's not like he said anything that was insulting to begins or dc.

[Dark Knight]

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2815/batowned42qg.jpg



this is what Riddler gets for promoting hate.......lol.....very appropriate indeed...... :batman:

[The Riddler]

Then I'll say it again. :rollseye:




:up:

-R
so essentially, you're just agreeing with me that insulting avi arad shouldn't happen.

[Milkman95]

We'll see what type of drop WOTW and FF have their second weekend. BB only had a 43% drop, which was superb in today's market.........

[The Riddler]

Again Riddler, the lower box office is an OVERALL thing, not just with Batman - it held the number one spot for 14 days. WOTW's lackluster box office is proof of that..........
lackluster, yet still better...

batman should be a bigger draw than wotw.

it's what almost everyone predicted.

[Super_Ludacris]

Lambast ME Avi!!!! Lambast me Avi!!! forget DC I'm the one you should be smug with. Dominate me!!! Damn you sage why did you have to show pictures of my high school costume party




But to answer your question before you so rudely interrupted us, because the box office is in a slump ( and a believe with file sharing, bootlegging and DVD's it will stay like this for a whie). Batman is performing great in a underperfroming market, the numbers are on point for WB.

[The Sage]

i understand that the you can lambast him for OTHER things, but this wasn't even a big deal. he did seem like an ass but it's not like he said anything that was insulting to begins or dc.

He said Batman Begins came and went. You don't consider that insulting?

[Super_Ludacris]

lackluster, yet still better...

batman should be a bigger draw than wotw.

it's what almost everyone predicted.


actually no everyone is predicting WOTW as the number one film of the summer

[The Riddler]

I like how you make up for your ignorance of the box office slump by comparing Batman Begins to superhero movies that didn't have a slump to overcome.
i already said the slump shouldn't be that BIG of a difference.

we're talking tens of millions of dollars.

also, let's compare it to WOTW, then. a 21 and 14 opening is already much better than begins' 15 and 9.

[The Riddler]

But to answer your question before you so rudely interrupted us, because the box office is in a slump ( and a believe with file sharing, bootlegging and DVD's it will stay like this for a whie). Batman is performing great in a underperfroming market, the numbers are on point for WB.
not even close to great.

star wars is great. WOTW is good. begins is underperforming.

does my articulation intimidate you luda? it should.

[Super_Ludacris]

u already said teh slump shouldn't be that BIG of a difference.

we're talking tens of millions of dollars.

also, let's compare it to WOTW, then. a 21 and 14 opening is already much better than begins' 15 and 9.


son, did you actually think BB was gonna top WOTW? Not me. If it does, great, if it doesn't it's not a failure

[Dark Knight]

what? of course i mean begins, not ALL the batman films. :rolleyes:

and as for spidey and batman, they can be compared no matter how different.

like in football, even if two teams have different strengths, they can still be compared because they're both football teams in the nfl.


i refuse to respond to this dumb attempt at a comparison.......you have no credibility......go away.....

[The Sage]

u already said teh slump shouldn't be that BIG of a difference.

we're talking tens of millions of dollars.

also, let's compare it to WOTW, then. a 21 and 14 opening is already much better than begins' 15 and 9.

I thought we were comparing Batman Begins to other superhero properties?

[tmeader]

Is it true that people were predicting Batman to be bigger than War of the Worlds?? If so, I'm in awe as to that assumption. How anyone could bet against an special effects laden alien invasion movie starring Tom Cruise and directed by Spielberg is beyond me? Perhaps if the end didn't follow the novle, but instead had Spidey swing in and destroy the tripods... then people would've come to their senses and realized the box office potential ;)

[Milkman95]

lackluster, yet still better...

batman should be a bigger draw than wotw.

it's what almost everyone predicted.

NO, it's not. WOTW was predicted to have a HUGE opening. Most certainly bigger than BB and some thought it was going to challenge ROTS.......Tom Cruise, Steven Spielberg, and a movie based on a novel that came out in 1898, had a history-making radio broadcast, and a movie released in 1953. BB was not more highly anticipated than WOTW, EVERYBODY knew that. Whatever it is you're drinking or smoking, please tell me what it is, I had a rough day at work and would like to laugh.......

[The Riddler]

i refuse to respond to this dumb attempt at a comparison.......you have no credibility......go away.....
you're an idiot.

and yes, there are only three periods in an elipses, not an erratic number as your post suggests.

[Milkman95]

i already said the slump shouldn't be that BIG of a difference.

we're talking tens of millions of dollars.

also, let's compare it to WOTW, then. a 21 and 14 opening is already much better than begins' 15 and 9.

And that is POOR for a film that most media outlets considered the most anticipated film of the summer........

[The Riddler]

I thought we were comparing Batman Begins to other superhero properties?
we were, and you started complaining about the "slump".

[Robin91939]

so essentially, you're just agreeing with me that insulting avi arad shouldn't happen.
I'm saying yeah, he is being an arrogant son of a *****, but atleast, enjoy the movies, and realize that they arn't Arad's movies, they are Marvel, and ours, the fans. Sure he controls the buisness angle, but he is paid to worry about the money, the filmakers are paid to worry about the critics. So ofcourse he will talk in terms of money. We just can't let it make us start saying things like "Oh I hope marvel movies tank".

Sure he shouldn't have compared the movies, but Goyer and others shouldn't be saying things like "Marvel's reign is over its DC's time". It's all just stupid. Make movies, and we'll enjoy them.

-R

[The Sage]

not even close to great.

star wars is great. WOTW is good. begins is underperforming.

does my articulation intimidate you luda? it should.

So much articulation you can't even capitalize your letters when they're supposed to be. :p

Star Wars Episode III = Last Star Wars movie ever. These fans camp out in front of theaters no matter what.

WOTW = Steven Spielsberg + Tom Cruise + Disaster Flick

Batman Begins = Rebirth of Batman + adult-focused tone + B&R history

[Ita-KalEl]

The Riddler you're not serious.
Because even with a megaflop of the FF you could say that they aren't icons as Batman etc. etc.
And you would say the same thing next year with a possible flop of X3.

Tell me your box office prediction of the FF.

[Super_Ludacris]

not even close to great.

star wars is great.But I never mentioned that WOTW is good.I mean it's clearly underperforming on boxofficemojo.com but I ignore facts so thereofre because I like to argue begins is underperforming even though it's making the exact numbers the WB expected it too, but I ignore these things like girls ignore me at school .

does my annoying trolling intimidate you luda? It's boderline homo so it should.


yes it does Riddler, yes it does :)

[The Sage]

we were, and you started complaining about the "slump".

Yeah, the slump that BB is in which the other superhero films weren't in.

[Milkman95]

we were, and you started complaining about the "slump".

The slump is legitimate. Are you living underneath a golf course or something?

[Dark Knight]

We'll see what type of drop WOTW and FF have their second weekend. BB only had a 43% drop, which was superb in today's market.........


exactly.....FF will drop considerably....after the first week....THAT i guarantee! Word of mouth will spread......of how "alright" of a movie it is...which usually means don't pay 10 bucks to see it.....LOL :hq:

[The Riddler]

So much articulation you can't even capitalize your letters when they're supposed to be. :p

Star Wars Episode III = Last Star Wars movie ever. These fans camp out in front of theaters no matter what.

WOTW = Steven Spielsberg + Tom Cruise + Disaster Flick

Batman Begins = Rebirth of Batman + adult-focused tone + B&R history
articulation has nothing to do with grammatical errors.

[Super_Ludacris]

I'll check out FF anyways, looks kiddieish but I'll check it out

[Milkman95]

exactly.....FF will drop considerably....after the first week....THAT i guarantee! Word of mouth will spread......of how "alright" of a movie it is...which usually means don't pay 10 bucks to see it.....LOL :hq:

I think FF will do fine, it's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory that will hit it hard the next week.............

[Dark Knight]

I'm saying yeah, he is being an arrogant son of a *****, but atleast, enjoy the movies, and realize that they arn't Arad's movies, they are Marvel, and ours, the fans. Sure he controls the buisness angle, but he is paid to worry about the money, the filmakers are paid to worry about the critics. So ofcourse he will talk in terms of money. We just can't let it make us start saying things like "Oh I hope marvel movies tank".

Sure he shouldn't have compared the movies, but Goyer and others shouldn't be saying things like "Marvel's reign is over its DC's time". It's all just stupid. Make movies, and we'll enjoy them.

-R


Marvels reign just might be over...it just might be close....

[The Riddler]

I'm saying yeah, he is being an arrogant son of a *****, but atleast, enjoy the movies, and realize that they arn't Arad's movies, they are Marvel, and ours, the fans. Sure he controls the buisness angle, but he is paid to worry about the money, the filmakers are paid to worry about the critics. So ofcourse he will talk in terms of money. We just can't let it make us start saying things like "Oh I hope marvel movies tank".

Sure he shouldn't have compared the movies, but Goyer and others shouldn't be saying things like "Marvel's reign is over its DC's time". It's all just stupid. Make movies, and we'll enjoy them.

-R
essentially, you're saying everyone should shut up.

[Robin91939]

Its a bad time for all movies and Box Office right now, chalk that up to piracy, and high ticket prices. No movie will do as well as it should this year, Star Wars should have made 400 plus, but it didn't. So you can't really compare movies in the present to that of movies past.

-R

[The Riddler]

Marvels reign just might be over...it just might be close....
yeah, i think so too because that spider-man franchise is so unprofitable.

you're an idiot dc fanboy. cry in a dark corner, and learn to use the elipses.

[Alonsovich]

If FF makes less than BB I'm going to laugh... just because of Arad. And as much as I love the X-Men, and as much as I don't like SR's direction... I hope Superman Returns crushes X3 so that this idiot understands that it's not only the characters, but about the people involved in them and what they do with them.

[JTIZZLEVILLE]

and to be honest, i don't think Spider-man 3 will be making as much money as those type films has in years past.

before long and the general public will grow weary of the web-slinger.

[Alonsovich]

yeah, i think so too because that spider-man franchise is so unprofitable.

you're an idiot dc fanboy. cry in a dark corner, and learn to use the elipses.

Sorry... but you're speaking as if Marvel had never made Captain America, Elektra, Daredevil, two Punisher movies, Man-Thing and Blade Trinity.

[Ita-KalEl]

yeah, i think so too because that spider-man franchise is so unprofitable.

you're an idiot dc fanboy. cry in a dark corner, and learn to use the elipses.

I'm happy to discover that you are a real troll dear Riddler.

[Super_Ludacris]

yeah, i think so too because that spider-man franchise is so unprofitable.

you're an idiot dc fanboy. cry in a dark corner, and learn to use the elipses.


Other than Spiderman 3 the quality of the marvel films coming out looks weak. They can fix that but with DC getting more in touch with the comics the playing field is even compared like 2 years ago. I win either way cause if it's a superhero film I'll watch it

[aquiles]

If FF makes less than BB I'm going to laugh... just because of Arad. And as much as I love the X-Men, and as much as I don't like SR's direction... I hope Superman Returns crushes X3 so that this idiot understands that it's not only the characters, but about the people involved in them and what they do with them.same here.

[tmeader]

Does anyone seriously care about Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? I suppose this is aimed towards kids, but what kid today has ANY IDEA what Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is about? Mention the name Willy Wonka, and that might spark some recognition. But it would likely only be a recognition of a term that their parents through around from time to time when discussing a film THEY liked in their childhood. I just can't see that film being a big hit in any way shape or form. I hesitate a little to underestimate Depp's box office pull... but I don't think Tim Burton has much anymore with mainstream audiences. Can't wait for the inevitable box office showdowns pitting the original Batman director against his the latest incarnation. Ugh.

[Dark Knight]

you're an idiot.

and yes, there are only three periods in an elipses, not an erratic number as your post suggests.


oh.....I'm the idiot??.....well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black huh?? LOL......stop promoting hate.....go away.....before you start crying.....

[The Riddler]

Sorry... but you're speaking as if Marvel had never made Captain America, Elektra, Daredevil, two Punisher movies, Man-Thing and Blade Trinity.
man-thig was a straight to tv movie right?

when was cap made a film?

and elektra/daredevil sucked ass.

and they made TWO punisher films?

[Super_Ludacris]

oh.....I'm the idiot??.....well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black huh?? LOL......stop promoting hate.....go away.....before you start crying.....


dude I know he's a dish rag and all that but you have to make a better comeback than that :)

[Milkman95]

It's a kids movie, that most of them know about. People will go, and it will debut at #1, no doubt.......