Box Office Reasoning For Begins, and Prediction for Sequal (PLEASE READ)

[Robin91939]

Yes, I know that it is early, yet Batman II promises to make more money than any Batman Film.

Let's crunch some numbers shall we?


BATMAN:----------Nationwide---$251,188,924---Worldwide---$413,200,000
BATMAN RETURNS: Nationwide---$162,831,698---Worldwide---$282,800,000
BATMAN FOREVER: Nationwide---$184,031,112---Worldwide---$335,000,000
BATMAN & ROBIN: Nationwide---$107,285,004---Worldwide---$237,200,000
BATMAN BEGINS*: Nationwide---$154,146,000---Worldwide---$268,100,000

*note, all BATMAN BEGINS numbers are growing.

Well, BATMAN BEGINS was the first Batman film in eight years, correct? Yes, and BATMAN BEGINS, centered entirely around the title character, for once. Yet, it has not appealed to the wide audience that we had hoped for it to have had. Also, its box office numbers, while solid, are not terrific. The movie is enjoying critical success, and is taking a great path through word of mouth. It is being endorsed as the "film of the year" by many of the top critics.

There are many excuses as to why the film isn't enjoying such lucrative success such as the Spider-man franchise. Let’s face it, very few movies can compete with these numbers:


SPIDER-MAN: Nationwide---$403,706,375---Worldwide---$806,700,000
SPIDER-MAN 2:Nationwide---$373,377,893---Worldwide---$783,577,893

SPIDER-MAN is the number six highest grossing movie off all time in the United States as well as the twelfth highest grossing film worldwide. SPIDER-MAN 2 is the eighth highest grossing film in the states and the fifteenth highest worldwide. These numbers are damn near impossible to compete with.

Yes, the excuses have been given as to why BATMAN BEGINS should have put up numbers like SPIDER-MAN and SPIDER-MAN 2. “Batman is DC’s premiere property”, “he is an icon”, “It’s a great film”, “terrific cast”, “IT’S BATMAN!”. There are tons of excuses and yet there are explanations as to why it didn’t do as well.

The Spider-man films had villains such as Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus. These are very marketable villains, and Doctor Octopus is a very iconic villain, almost as much as the Joker. These villains were very marketable and really great attention grabbers for fans and non-fans alike.

BATMAN BEGINS, did not have the marketable villains that Spider-man’s franchise has had. Ra’s Al Ghul, Carmine Falcone, and Scarecrow are not names that the public is familiar with, and that is a good thing. This allowed the fist film to build a foundation for future movies on the premise that it is Batman’s franchise. These, while being solid villains, some of the best in Batman’s rouge’s gallery they are not visually interesting (with the exclusion of Scarecrow).

Then there is the fact that Batman had FOUR, other onscreen interpretations in the last sixteen years. Spider-man had NEVER had an onscreen adaptation. All Marvel fans had had onscreen (that were successful) were BLADE(1999) and X-MEN (2000).

Say what you will about FANTASTIC FOUR being the “flagship” of Marvel, Spider-man is the most iconic Marvel character, bar none.

It wasn't a matter of year, but fans’ entire lives that they had been waiting for this Spider-man film. This site (formerly the “SpidermanHype!”) is proof of the anticipation.

Batman fans before BATMAN BEGINS, had four other films, serials, an amazing Animated Series, and a campy 60’s show and film. Batman fans had had their fill, and the non-fans had seen “Bat-mania” several times before.

Then there is the final reason, the ghost. The ghost of a franchise that disappointed on many levels. While some say BATMAN was a great film, I disagree; it was a fine attempt to depict Batman. It did its job and served its purpose to get the ball rolling, it was a solid onscreen adaptation, it had a marketable villain, but that was also the downfall. The villain became the movie.

With the second film, some say it was a great artistic approach, which it was. Yet, it was not Batman. This film, BATMAN RETURNS began the death of the franchise, great villains, wasted. Characters swallowed by their gimmicks. Cries from soccer mom’s that said it didn’t deserve a PG-13 rating.

The movie was then toned down in the third installment and became the second highest grossing film in the franchise, and was critically acclaimed as the revival of the franchise. Had it not been over hashed by the WB, Schumaker may have delivered the best Batman film of its time.

Angry with the executives decisions Schumaker saw the over editing as a slap in the face to his artistic “vision” therefore he slapped Batman in the face. He slapped us all with BATMAN & ROBIN. This was the death of the revival. It was also the death of the franchise.

For eight long years, fans have waited for the film of their lives, while non-fans made Batman the butt of every holy joke. Nipples, campiness, and everything in-between.

Then came BATMAN BEGINS, a dark tale of the beginnings of the Dark Knight.

Yet, some people were “tired” of seeing Batman, and then there is the fact that the fact that the Box office is in a HUGE slump anyway.

More people are concerned with their “DVD collections”. As Jett posted, once the DVD comes out it will make a lot more money. Also, it will be more accessible, and the wider audience will watch it “on their own time” making it more convenient for them to see BATMAN BEGINS for the first time.

Once they see the end of the film, and see what is to come, they will undoubtedly be excited to see the follow-up. Also, with the quality of filmmaking and the story of the film, it will get people’s attention.

This takes us to the title of the thread. With all of the positive buzz around the first film, and with the fact that people are going to realize that this is a restart, it will make even more buzz for the follow up film.

This film will also sport the most marketable and popular villain of all time. Plus the strong possibility a big time star, and great actor playing the role. BATMAN CONTINUES (which I guess for now is the “unofficial title”) promises to be the biggest Batman film yet.

With factors like the villain, the actors, and the first films success, critically, and praise from the fans and non fans alike, will lead to a new fan base: of the movies.


(NOTE: I did not argue at all that BATMAN BEGINS is better than either of the Spider-man films, or worse. I just compared the financial numbers of the films. I actually stake the claim that the next Batman film has the potential to post numbers in the same area code as the Spider-man films.)

For those of you that have taken the time to read all of this, thanks.

-R

[Robin91939]

::EDIT::

-R

[BatMatt]

Oh yeah Begins 2 will definitely do better, the memories of Batman and Robin will be 100% erased from peoples memories and the Joker is a natural draw

[JLBats]

Nipples killed it. Usually they make things so much better... :(

To anyone with nipples who was offended by this post, I'm very sorry. It was not intended to offend.

[Equinox]

Nice thread:up:

[Excel]

dont forget-sequels arethe only films that seem ot open huge now, and a good sequels, well their in the 350 million+ zone.

[DA Harvey Dent]

Nice post robin.

[Robin91939]

Nice post robin.
Nice thread:up:
Thanks, I think that we fans just need to have a little more confidence in the franchise.

We all know that the movie was fantastic, and everyone that has seen it (that I know) has loved it. Yet, the box office hasn't rivaled movies like "Revenge of the Sith", "Spider-man", and we even opened slower than "Longest Yard". This was due to the reasons I stated above.

I think that WB execs need to chill too, expecially with these rumors of a smaller budget. Like Bruce Wayne, they don't realize the "monster" that they have created. Batman has infact begun again, and if they keep the same cast and crew the next two installments will be huge movies, critically and financially. The best Batman story have still yet to be told.

Begins was an amazing movie and the villains worked amazingly, but just imagine: Joker and Two-face, done right......those movies will put asses in seats.

-R

[Seen]

Fantastic post, Robin. I agree on all counts. I just hope it won't be called BATMAN CONTINUES. Although it is growing on me.

But I doubt we'll get a big name star for The Joker. Really, I don't want one, since that stigma has never worked in the past. Either get an unknown like Lachy Hulme or a quality actor like Liam Neeson. But yes, a reinvention of cinema's top villains will bring huge anticipation to the sequel, plus if he's done right, and the quality of BEGINS on top of it all...I seriously cannot wait to see it all unfold...

Does 2008 have to be so far away?

[Ocelot]

Nipples killed it. Usually they make things so much better... :(

To anyone with nipples who was offended by this post, I'm very sorry. It was not intended to offend.

I hear all that crap about the nipples on the costume that made the Schumacher movies so horrible, but thats not what ruined it for me when I saw them. And I honestly dont think its the nipples that bothered everyone else besides the Batfans so much, more being that the movies just weren't what they were looking for in a Batman movie.

[Ocelot]

But I doubt we'll get a big name star for The Joker. Really, I don't want one, since that stigma has never worked in the past.

Does 2008 have to be so far away?

Nicholson didnt work for Joker in Batman?

[Seen]

Nicholson didnt work for Joker in Batman?

He worked for Nicholson in BATMAN. ;)

[Robin91939]

Nicholson didnt work for Joker in Batman?
Read my orignal post, Nicolson took over that movie. Due to his star power.


Seen, I didn't mean a big name, as in the "current guy" or the "big name" per se, but as in a "Sean Penn" callibure actor, someone that will gain the "serious" moviegoers attention, if BATMAN BEGINS, and the rest of the cast hadn't already. Just a respectable, talented actor, ala Liam Neeson as the villain in BATMAN BEGINS.

-R

[Seen]

Read my orignal post, Nicolson took over that movie. Due to his star power.


Seen, I didn't mean a big name, as in the "current guy" or the "big name" per se, but as in a "Sean Penn" callibure actor, someone that will gain the "serious" moviegoers attention, if BATMAN BEGINS, and the rest of the cast hadn't already. Just a respectable, talented actor, ala Liam Neeson as the villain in BATMAN BEGINS.

-R

Agreed about Nicholson. And yeah, I'd like to see an unknown or a Neeson type actor tackle Joker. That'd be sweet.

[Batty for Bats!]

Begins was an amazing movie and the villains worked amazingly, but just imagine: Joker and Two-face, done right......those movies will put asses in seats.
Well, it will definently put my ass in a seat, that much is 100%.
Also agree, damn good thread. This lowering the budget thing certainly has gotten me worring about the greatest Batman franchise there possibly ever will be.

[Batty for Bats!]

Agreed about Nicholson. And yeah, I'd like to see an unknown or a Neeson type actor tackle Joker. That'd be sweet.
Ala... Hulme :joker::eek::p:up:

[user123456789]

For those of you that have taken the time to read all of this, thanks.

-R

Your Welcome, and awesome post. I hope your prediction about the sequel is right. At this point I don't care how much money it makes, than how good it will be.

[Shedhut]

"Nipples killed it. Usually they make things so much better... http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif"

To anyone with nipples who was offended by this post, I'm very sorry. It was not intended to offend.

*Comment of the day* http://www.kill-bill.de/smilies/lol.gif

Good essay Robin :up:

[Robin91939]

Good essay Robin :up:
It could have been longer, but then NOBODY, would have read it. :up:

-R

[AshtonFoster]

With Batman vs Joker (lets face it....easily the most famous hero vs villian concept), and the possible inclusion of Two-Face, the next Batman has the possibilty of being an even better film, and pulling out more Spidey like BO numbers...Though with the film's natural darkness (thank god), will never hit those numbers.

[Catman]

The reason this film isn't making as much money as it should is because it doesn't appeal to kids. That's where the money is. In the Roger Ebert thread I made a week or so ago we discussed this. Someone send Ebert a scary poll which states that most adults rather watch a DVD then go to the theater. Which means that the majority of moviegoers are kids and teenagers. This film doesn't really appeal to that age group.

I think that if WB and Nolan want to continue making adult-oriented Batman films they shouldn't spend so much money. $70 or 80 million is all we need for a good Batman film. We don't need a monorail exploding or a car chase in top of buildings to make a Batman film good.

[Seen]

The reason this film isn't making as much money as it should is because it doesn't appeal to kids. That's where the money is. In the Roger Ebert thread I made a week or so ago we discussed this. Someone send Ebert a scary poll which states that most adults rather watch a DVD then go to the theater. Which means that the majority of moviegoers are kids and teenagers. This film doesn't really appeal to that age group.

It means that there aren't enough good films out, simply put. Movies that haven't been marketed to kids have done well, like the LORD OF THE RINGS films. Try getting a kid to sit through one of those.

And the poll said adults, not teenagers. Adults want to stay home (and they perfer comedies, according to Headline News) and watch 'em on DVD because the hassle of going to see it on a theater screen isn't enough...probably because nine times out of ten movies tend to suck.

It's why ticket sales are steadily decreasing. Originality and freshness in movies are gone. Instead of remaking old concepts, continuing new ideas that begin to fade out, or doing both, howabout start by letting writers and filmmakers conjure innovative ideas that don't resolve around costumes or aliens.

Where's THE ENGLISH PATIENT, or SCHIENDLER'S LIST? A good movie doesn't have to include special effects or action sequences to be considered worthy. People want proper characterization and plot. Simple as that.

[Catman]

It means that there aren't enough good films out, simply put. Movies that haven't been marketed to kids have done well, like the LORD OF THE RINGS films. Try getting a kid to sit through one of those.

It's why ticket sales are steadily decreasing. Originality and freshness in movies are gone. Instead of remaking old concepts, continuing new ideas that begin to fade out, or doing both, howabout start by letting writers and filmmakers conjure innovative ideas that don't resolve around costumes or aliens.

Um, LOTR appealed to teenagers. That's why it made money. Yes, I agree that Hollywood has completely gone bonkers, but why does a movie like War of the Worlds make more money than Batman Begins? Because Begins is a more adult-oriented film, while War is a disaster film with big explosions that teenagers enjoy. All I said was that WB and Nolan shouldn't spend so much money on these films if they are making them for adults. Look at Robert Rodriguez. Did he spend so much money on Sin City?

[Weadazoid]

Read my orignal post, Nicolson took over that movie. Due to his star power.


Seen, I didn't mean a big name, as in the "current guy" or the "big name" per se, but as in a "Sean Penn" callibure actor, someone that will gain the "serious" moviegoers attention, if BATMAN BEGINS, and the rest of the cast hadn't already. Just a respectable, talented actor, ala Liam Neeson as the villain in BATMAN BEGINS.

-R


I have been pushing for Penn to take the Joker role in the sequals department for while now.

Why it isn't so much that I think he looks like the perfect Joker it is that I really want to see him opposite Bale, I think these two would have alot of chemistry on film, and that chemistry would play out well in helping people realize... wow this isn't Jack Overacting and stealing Batmans Girl, this is the Joker.

[Seen]

Um, LOTR appealed to teenagers. That's why it made money. Yes, I agree that Hollywood has completely gone bonkers, but why does a movie like War of the Worlds make more money than Batman Begins? Because Begins is a more adult-oriented film, while War is a disaster film with big explosions that teenagers enjoy. All I said was that WB and Nolan shouldn't spend so much money on these films if they are making them for adults. Look at Robert Rodriguez. Did he spend so much money on Sin City?

And BB didn't appeal to teenagers? I'm roughly a teenager (if you count 20 as being a teenager) and all of my friends saw it and loved it. And I saw many younger kids going to see it, and even some adolescents. Although I don't know how teens saw LOTR...I was around 16 when the first one came out in '01, and I didn't see it, and neither did any of my friends. Same goes for the second and third.

[Catman]

And BB didn't appeal to teenagers? I'm roughly a teenager (if you count 20 as being a teenager) and all of my friends saw it and loved it. And I saw many younger kids going to see it, and even some adolescents. Although I don't know how teens saw LOTR...I was around 16 when the first one came out in '01, and I didn't see it, and neither did any of my friends. Same goes for the second and third.

You and your friends do not represent the rest of the country. All I can say is that the numbers speak for themselves. That is why I said that WB should spend less money on the sequel. When did $150 million become a requirement for a good movie? If WB would have spend less money on Begins everyone wouldn't be making such a big deal about the box office. The movie is doing good, but it isn't what everyone expected or at least wanted.

[Seen]

You and your friends do not represent the rest of the country. All I can say is that the numbers speak for themselves. That is why I said that WB should spend less money on the sequel. When did $150 million become a requirement for a good movie? If WB would have spend less money on Begins everyone wouldn't be making such a big deal about the box office. The movie is doing good, but it isn't what everyone expected or at least wanted.

How do you know that teenagers didn't flock to BEGINS, besides a poll which according to you reads adults?

And the box office returns are fine, if you take into consideration the contributing factors. WB is admittedly fine with the results, and it's clear we'll be getting a sequel. I'm sure BATMAN BEGINS 2 will make far more money, and again, I will say this again:

Final numbers aren't in yet. Guaranteed that DVD sales will hugely help the movie come the fall.

[Robin91939]

Sorry to get in the middle of this, but you're both about half right.

LORD OF THE RINGS has die hard fans that read the books in college and are now all adults. Yet, there are a lot of nerds and geeks (yes its true they are) who showed up at premiers in elf ears and costumes that were teenagers. And I mean A LOT. A movie does not make that much money with out putting a lot of teens in the seats. At the same time it was geared to the fans of the books, whoe were in their mid thirties, and that's where it got its adult appeal and its "oscar worthiness".

As for BATMAN BEGINS, no it doesn't need a 150 million dollar budget for the sequal. Yet, for the reasons above it can really do what ever the hell it wants and it will make a lot of money, so long as the movie is of the same quality as BATMAN BEGINS.

There were many, many teenagers that went to see this film. It has appealed to the demographic of 15 to 35, generally. Sure, tonight I went again, I'm 17 and I went with two friends, both 18, and there was a family of three there. The parents appeared mid forties and a daughter around ten or eleven. So it is appealing to everyone, but not as much as say SPIDER-MAN or the FANTASTIC FOUR.

So I kind of agree, and dissagree with both of you.

-R

[BatmanRules33]

im 18 and i saw BB twice, and hopefully going again this sunday. and what a coincidence, i am always a DIR HARD fan of LOTR's, i have read the book and my room is filled with lotr's toys and swords, etc, even more so then batman. i only saw ROTK in theaters, and thats where i got hooked for the first time. anyways, i also saw a little boy and his mother (both wearing red batsymbol shirts) go in to see BB, so when it first came out, yes, there were even some little 5 -10 year olds seein it, cuz its BATMAN to them, lol.

[Robin91939]

::Edit::


VERY SORRY mods...

-R

[theShape]

BB sold itself.

there wasn't a huge push from the WB like there is from Sony with the Spidey films. no happy meals or any of the crap. no commercials every 10 seconds on tv. the WB was very smart in doing that. because they let people find the movie themselves.

the reviews were great for it, and it did fine at the box office. nothing overly huge. but now that people have seen how great BB was either at the movies or on DVD, the sequel will be HUGE.

[zer00]

::Edit::


VERY SORRY mods...

-R

for joining?

[CConn]

BB sold itself.

there wasn't a huge push from the WB like there is from Sony with the Spidey films. no happy meals or any of the crap. no commercials every 10 seconds on tv. the WB was very smart in doing that. because they let people find the movie themselves....they were?

I mean, would it have hurt BB's box office if there was more commercials? Maybe some more ties-ins and stuff? I'd hardly think so.

[BatMatt]

Kinda glad there were no tie-ins except for Verizon Wireless...

The sequel will make more, thats pretty certain when you factor in Joker and the audience's last memory of Batman is Batman Begins, not Batman and Robin

[CConn]

I don't see how that matters on the marketing side of it, though.

Except for maybe WB not wanting to chance putting a lot of money out there for a Batman movie after B&R.

[The Batman]

The Sequels probably wont do much better than BB. the days of Batman being a powerhouse are gone. Why?

The fans. The Fans want the new Batman movies to be made for them and them alone. And since WB dosent know what else to do, they listen to these fans. So now, the batflicks are just indies with action, no longer having mass appeal like the batmen of old. Yeah, say that a mainstream batman means camp, but you'd only prove you dont know what the hell you're talking about

[Boom]

I'm going to go against the norm and say the sequel WON'T make as much as Begins. It'll make around the same amount, but it'll fall short to its predecessor.

[Excel]

Im a big box office analyst now. No lie, and Ill say BATMAN 2 is looking at a big increase. if marketed like begins itll total around 240-250 million. if marketed like spiderman, were looking at 280 million.

opening weekend will be atleast 90 million; the fanbase for batman is alive and kicking again and you can trust me on that! i know what im talking about; i give batman 2 90/275 at the moment.

[theShape]

...they were?

I mean, would it have hurt BB's box office if there was more commercials? Maybe some more ties-ins and stuff? I'd hardly think so.

it wouldn't have hurt it. but i don't think the WB really wanted to throw BB in people's face. like.."here! look! we made another GOOD batman movie! we swear!"

it was a good move. they sort of let people see how great it was for themselves. and it worked out fine. and now, there will be more of a push for the sequel.

[theShape]

The Sequels probably wont do much better than BB. the days of Batman being a powerhouse are gone. Why?

The fans. The Fans want the new Batman movies to be made for them and them alone. And since WB dosent know what else to do, they listen to these fans. So now, the batflicks are just indies with action, no longer having mass appeal like the batmen of old. Yeah, say that a mainstream batman means camp, but you'd only prove you dont know what the hell you're talking about

completely disagree. the fans have nothing to do with anything. no big budget movie is made just for the fans. they would never even make the budget back if they did that. movies are made for the masses. will fans be able to enjoy a batman movie more? yes. it doesn't matter, though.

[CConn]

it wouldn't have hurt it. but i don't think the WB really wanted to throw BB in people's face. like.."here! look! we made another GOOD batman movie! we swear!"

it was a good move. they sort of let people see how great it was for themselves. and it worked out fine. and now, there will be more of a push for the sequel.But see, that's what I meant exactly. BB succeeded despite WB's marketing plans, not because of them.

[The Batman]

completely disagree. the fans have nothing to do with anything. no big budget movie is made just for the fans. they would never even make the budget back if they did that. movies are made for the masses. will fans be able to enjoy a batman movie more? yes. it doesn't matter, though.

Its widely known WB and the writers, crew, etc looked at sites like BOF to see what the fans wanted....dark, mature movies catered to fans and adults. BB wasnt made for kids, and didnt really appeal to anyone younger than 15...

[Weadazoid]

Prediciton for part 2..


Between 250 and 275 Million.

[Jack Napier]

I really don't care how much money it makes. "Da Vinci Code" is making a boatload of cash, and it's a mediocre movie. Schumacher's Batman movies did well. A movie shouldn't be judged by how much money it makes. If making the Batman movies smarter and more taut plot-wise means losing some box-office gross, then so be it.

Plus, if Batman vs. The Joker isn't a good enough box office draw to put people in seats...then I don't know about people sometimes.

[ultimatefan]

I suspect the sequel will make more for the simple fact that Begins restored the reputation of the franchise. Look how well the DVD performed, it sold better than some movies that went better than BB in the BO, such as CATCF (a PG-rated family movie, the kind that usually dominates the DVD market). Nolan seems very keen on maintaining the tone and style, while Burton went on a somewhat different route with Returns. I think the sequel will grow from the foundation that Nolan built in the first movie, much like the X-Men sequel grew from the foundation established by Singer in the first one. I already sense more excitement outside of bat-fandom for the sequel than there was for Begins.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Even though Batman & Robin was the worst of the bunch there are still average non-Batman fans that liked it more than the others, some reasons are this:

-it had Arnold as the villian, plus he's known worldwide

-it featured Bat-girl which attracted the female audience

-it had action right from the start and Batman wasn't so brooding

-cool Bat-vehicles

so what I'm trying to say is this, while us Americans adore a brooding, disturbed Dark Knight, somebody like say in Ecuador might like Batman as seen on the 60's show or the Superfriends cartoon.

[ultimatefan]

Even though Batman & Robin was the worst of the bunch there are still average non-Batman fans that liked it more than the others, some reasons are this:

-it had Arnold as the villian, plus he's known worldwide

-it featured Bat-girl which attracted the female audience

-it had action right from the start and Batman wasn't so brooding

-cool Bat-vehicles

so what I'm trying to say is this, while us Americans adore a brooding, disturbed Dark Knight, somebody like say in Ecuador might like Batman as seen on the 60's show or the Superfriends cartoon.
I suspect so, B & R was actually the only Batman movie that did better overseas than USA. But BB did better than the Burton movies, which did only 30% of the BO overseas. BB did about 45%.

[WhiteRat]

Nipples killed it. Usually they make things so much better... :(

To anyone with nipples who was offended by this post, I'm very sorry. It was not intended to offend.

enough with this nipples killed it crap.Go ahead and say batman and Robin made audiences stay away from batman begins but enough of this nipples killed it crap.

[thedarks0ldier]

I was 18 when i saw it, and noticed the smarter my friends were, the more they liked it. although 18 and 19 is that wierd twilight stage were you arent considered an adult by anyone but the law.

I hope the sequals make more money as they contiunue, ala the X-Men farnchise

[saint sinner x]

Batman escalation which i'm hoping they name the sequal that, will do better then batman begins. Look at the facts batman begins the dvd sold alotl of units. Batman begins been airing on HBO lately and it's getting around people like this movie so i predict with the right marketing and the sufficient hype batman begins would do at least 120million dollars on first weekend on a 5day weekend of course. Even nolan and everyone who has read the script of batman begins the sequal are saying that the movie is going to be darker than the first one and better.

We'll just going to have to wait and see for 2008 the bat shall return

[fabman]

I think Batman 2 will do better than the first part and better than Superman Returns. Even Batman Begins was a bit 'stronger' in 2005 than Supes is now amd the sequel will turn out as a success. People have seen Batman Begins and liked it, people have seen the cliffhanger at the end and can't wait for the sequel, so it will make at least 205 milion dollars in the US (Begins was a hit in the States!!!) like its precedessor but I don't know how it'll make in internationally, it's hard to say since Batman movies have never been successful in, for example, Germany.

[ReptileOrion]

Great post Robin

The end of Batman Begins is a perfect setup. I predict that the sequel to Begins will do very very well. As we have all seen to get the kind of Batman film we want the studios my not make record numbers on a film. As long as the film makes a profit they should be happy. I'll take Begins numbers over Spidey numbers all long as Batman is saying "Swear to me!!!!" as opposed to "We'll meet again....Spider-man!!!".

[WhiteRat]

Yeah Great post Robin.I dont know about it becoming the biggest Batman moneymaker though.Because the Batman Begins sequal will have the same obstacle that Batman Begins had in that there were already four batman movies that had already been made so the eagerness by kids wasnt there to go see Batman Begins on the screen like it was for Batman 89 and now with Batman Begins,kids now have 5 Batman movies they can pop into the VCR now.Also,if Warner brothers does as much of a horrific job of marketing for the Batman Begins sequal like they did with Batman Begins,forget about it being the biggest Batman moneymaker.Hopefully warner brothers fired all those people in the advertising and promotional department because they deserve it.