Wonder Girl should join Teen Titans!!

[phoenixflight]

As with the Justice League, the Teen Titans needs new blood. Not as many as Unlimited, but afew additions to the group would be nice. I would love to see Wonder Girl join the group. She would add some additional spark to the Starfire/Robin relationship as well as add some more "muscle" to the group.

I have often wondered, why did Supergirl join the Justice League Unlimited when her age and statis really qualifies her for membership in the Titans? I thought they existed in the same Universe - how about a crossover??

Here is an image of a perfect Wonder Girl to join Teen Titans!!

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2901/cartoonwondergirl3ev.jpg

[TheStrider]

Supergirl is chillin with Superman, she is where she belongs. But I agree, a few new characters would be nice.

[TheStrider]

Plus, Supergirl could take out Slade a bit to easily, they would be overpowered.

[Raven#1]

Besides, though the comics has all the DC characters connected (i.e. the Titans and the League), the show do not, as they are made by different people and there are copyright issues to wade through when obtaining a character. Besides, there are already enough new members with the returns of Hotspot, Wilderbeest, Tram, Titans East, as well as new arrivals like Kid Flash (Wally West), Jericho (Joseph Wilson), Kole, and numerous others, not to mention the possible return of a certain backstabbing blond who's currently a statue...

[Angelus7181]

Terra rules. :cool:

As for Wonder Girl and Superboy.. Sam Register has stated that they were sort of out of the picture because those are different licenses within DC Comics. So with Teen Titans – which is Robin essentially – they had access to the Batman universe. But they would have to pay a bigger licensing fee to get those "other" characters in because other creators are connected to those.

But who knows he also stated that Kid Flash would never happen but now he's on board for season 5, which makes me wonder if they actually had to put down big bucks for it to happen.. hhmmmm.

[The Question]

Terra is not comeing back she's dead dead as a doornob dead.

[Raven#1]

You don't know that. Titanstower did say she could come back "in an interesting way". This was while they covered the new members (Kid Flash, Jericho, etc.) and the returns (the Honorary Titans, Tram, and Titans East). However, to the one who said, "Terra rules", that is your opinion. I, on the other hand, connect all the Titans with their comic selves, and thusly, I hate Terra and always will, no matter that the TV show creators decided to change her up a bit (make her seem misunderstood and lost, instead of the true caniving, cold-hearted, [bleep]-stick her comic backstory foretold).

[jaydawg]

Then shouldnt you hate Raven for ruining Dick and Starfires wedding? Anyways its already been stated all the Timm shows (BTAS, STAS, TNBA,Gotham Girls, Batman Beyond, Zeta, JL, Static Shock, JLU) are not connected to any other tv show with DC characters in it such as Teen Titans, The Batman, Krypto the Superdog and obviously, Smallville. Theres also an embargo to consider. While there isnt one on Wonder Woman and her characters, one has to mention the high cost it would be take to liscense the character. Personally, I'd love to see the character on Titans because its appearant they arent going to use the character on Justice League and it would totally kick ass to see all of the original members of TT (comics wise of course, since in the show the founders are Raven, Robin, Cyborg, Beast Boy and Starfire). I mean seeing Aqualad, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Robin and Speedy in one episode would be a real treat.

[Raven#1]

But, you could see most of them, save Wonder Girl...I mean, the 60's Titans (the TV Titans; drawn like the 80's "Superfriends") had them all, save Robin who was still with Bats.

[Nightbilee]

kid flash and terra need to be members.

[Raven#1]

Terra no...she's had her chance and blew it. As for Kid Flash, he will appear in the eppy Lightspeed, but he only joined because he, like Dick, was manipulated by Raven...

[King Ruler]

That's only in the comics. Just because it happened in the comics doesn't mean it'll happen in the show. There was no need to state that that was the reason hej oined the team.

[Raven#1]

Well, if they are close to their comic selves and they do an origin episode, then they ought to retell the origins correctly, including how the members joined...

[King Ruler]

No, not really. Slack or whoever is writing the origins story can do whatever they want. They make Starfire an embassador to Earth, make Cyborg someone who got into a car accident, make Beast Boy some kid who escaped from a government organization, and Raven somebody they found in a cafe.
I don't think they're gonna even go into their backgrounds, just how they met up. And that doesn't mean that it'll happen like in the comics.

[Raven#1]

They hinted at their backgrounds before, so it's best that the origin episode ties all the loose ends on the backstories, as well as how the team was assembled.

True, team Slack can change it to how they want it, but comic purists wouldn't like that way. I might not know much about the comics, but I want them to stay as true to the comics as much as a kids show can get.

Obviously, they are gonna axe the more mature parts, but with the hints of who is who in certain episodes (ex: Cy, for example, in Deception and that quick comment made by Evil Cyborg in The End pt.2), the creators will eventually have to finally admit who's who (Cy is Victor Stone, for example) and the best way to do that is in an origin episode.

[King Ruler]

No, I'm pretty sure the origins story might just be about how they formed as a team, leaving out each characters specific backgrounds. Who cares if cmic purists don't like it? Slack and others have done well not following the comics to a fault so far, so why change it up?
In the show, this team of Titans were the first team to have been made, not the second, and it's worked so far. No complaints at all. If they can have Raven still be in her blue cloak after defeating her father when it was supposed to stay white, then they can have the Titans just meet up and decide to be a team of heroes.

[jaydawg]

Your an idiot because comic purist already hate this show and have from day one. The writers dont cater to comic fans at all. If they did, the show would be incredibly dark, Slade would be Deathstroke, he would work for the Hive, Gizmo would be a middle aged man and Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Robin, Aqualad and Speedy would be the original Titans.

[Raven#1]

No, because there's copyright issues with each character and the show is a kid's show, hence words like death and stroke cannot be used...

[Nightbilee]

well that's stupid.

[Raven#1]

Tell that to the FCC and soccer moms that watch over popular programs, such as TT is currently. In fact, there's a site out there called obession.com that urges parents to watch over what their kids watch, even when the parents themselves watched the same stuff when they were kids (i.e. superhero shows like old-school Superman and Batman). The programs are trying to abide by the FFC's "kid friendly" rules, which why explains why TT was nixed from Kid's WB, after the second season (with Terra's demise), because the execs at Kid's WB, felt that TT was no longer safe for "wholesome" children...

[jaydawg]

Thats bs because theres Brother Blood who debuted long after "Slade," besides all my other points were valid and you know it.

[King Ruler]

Your an idiot because comic purist already hate this show and have from day one. The writers dont cater to comic fans at all. If they did, the show would be incredibly dark, Slade would be Deathstroke, he would work for the Hive, Gizmo would be a middle aged man and Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Robin, Aqualad and Speedy would be the original Titans.

For a second I thought you were talking to me.

No, because there's copyright issues with each character and the show is a kid's show, hence words like death and stroke cannot be used...

But if the show was meant for "comic purists", then it wouldn't BE a kid aimed show, genius.

[Raven#1]

I know that, but because the show IS geared towards kids, the characters, their origins, and everything else has been modified to fit a "kiddie" level, save maybe Raven's...

[jaydawg]

They dont even have origins. Or names for that matter.

[Raven#1]

Yes they do. Cy for example, told Starfire that his human hologram was at one time "the original version" and his alias was Stone, which was ironic because his real name was Victor Stone. As for Robin, aka Dick, we already know his origin, but his real name was noted by demension-hopping Larry in Fractured, his future self (Nightwing) was seen in How Long is Forever, and his parents infamous plunge and him becoming Bat's ward was seen by Raven in Haunted. Star's Tamaranian name was uttered by Galfore in Bethrothed, the same episode where we learn of Star's noble heritage as a princess. Raven's past/destiny was noted numerous times, but mostly in Season 4. The only one lacking hints at his real name or his true origin is BB, but with his former teachers, the Doom Patrol, appearing this coming season, that might change.

[King Ruler]

He meant that the characters were written to not have names, which is why they only go by their codenames, except for Raven. The fact that Cyborg used the name "Stone" doesn't mean anything, because it was just a play on his actual name from the comics. The. COMICS. The writers could make Cyborg's real name Bobby Richards if they wanted to.

[Raven#1]

True, but Slack's fanboyism wants the Titans' true names to be hinted at, so Cy will always be (Victor) Stone, Raven as well...Raven, Starfire as Princess Koriander of Tamaran, Robin as Dick Grayson, and BB as the not-yet-mentioned Garfield Mark Logan...

[Angelus7181]

Terra no...she's had her chance and blew it. As for Kid Flash, he will appear in the eppy Lightspeed, but he only joined because he, like Dick, was manipulated by Raven...

Raven#1 it's safe to say that most of us are sick of hearing you state your opinions as facts, I for one am pretty close to that point. Terra is a team member of the Titans weather you like it or not. I don't give a *beep* how much you hate her but don't go around telling others facts based on your opinion. Robin made her an honorary Teen Titan, they even ingraved it on her freaken statue that she was! Reading:

TERRA
A TEEN TITAN
A TRUE FRIEND


If you come up with an excuse just to explain other wise.. your just pathetic.

[Raven#1]

Actually, if you look at titanstower.com Marv Wolfman and George Perez themselves state openly that Terra WAS NOT A TITAN...

[hippie_hunter]

Actually, if you look at titanstower.com Marv Wolfman and George Perez themselves state openly that Terra WAS NOT A TITAN...

F**k Titanstower.com. Terra is honored by the Teen Titans by not only having a statute of her in the Hall of the Fallen. But also she is in a portrait of the original Teen Titans with Robin/Nightwing, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Speedy, Aqualad, Starfire, Cyborg, Changeling, Raven, and Jericho

SHE IS A TITAN

[Raven#1]

Hall of the Fallen, as in, people who've died? And George and Marv made the comics and they said she is NOT a Titan...

[King Ruler]

And which Terra were they talking about, exactly? TV or comic?

[Raven#1]

Well, they were meaning comic-wise, considering theirs was more...messed up in the head. However, TV Terra, though misunderstood, didn't stray far from her comic backstory (betraying the Titans and teaming with Slade; thought to be turned back to good, only to be 'stone dead'--until she is revived that is...).

[jaydawg]

First off, Wolfman and Perez werent the first or the last to write the Titans. They were just the most popular. If another writer says something, its canon. And if Slack is such a ****ing fanboy, the stories would be alot more decent instead of a bunch of filler episodes that never happened in the comics. If this team is sooooo full of fanboys, Titans would have had an origin or at the very least REAL NAMES. Plus it lacks an incredible amount of logic that 5 people living together dont know each others real names. Hell where do they even get the money to live in a giant T building? Fanboy my ass.

[Raven#1]

One, they can't just openly state the Titans' real name, because though everyone knows them (Robin/Dick, Raven, Star/Kori, Cy/Vic, BB/Gar, etc.), there are people who disagree like Rowen for instance, who thinks Robin is Tim.

Hints are given at their real names (ex: for Robin: Fractured, How Long is Forever, Haunted), but they will probably never be truly given (I might be wrong), because the creators want people to know them as heroes and not the people behind said heroes.

As for the money, comic wise, it is said that Cy's father before he died, gave Cy the money to purchase/build a house and Cy had the Tower constructed. Either that or Bruce funds the whole thing, BB spent his hidden fortune on it, or the citizens of Jump gave to the Titans free of charge. However, it happened is irrelevant, especially considering all the inconsietancies with this show.

But, we know full well that Slack does follow the comics somewhat (ex: Season 4, Terror of Trigon; Season 2: Judas Contract), but just not fully, because he wants the show to be all his own...

[King Ruler]

One, they can't just openly state the Titans' real name, because though everyone knows them (Robin/Dick, Raven, Star/Kori, Cy/Vic, BB/Gar, etc.), there are people who disagree like Rowen for instance, who thinks Robin is Tim.

That's bull$h!t. Slack or anyone else wouldn't give a **** if a fan thought that Robin was Tim. They've stated so themselves that they know people care, but they don't. If they wanted to say Robin was Dick, then they would've had him say so.

As for the money, comic wise, it is said that Cy's father before he died, gave Cy the money to purchase/build a house and Cy had the Tower constructed. Either that or Bruce funds the whole thing, BB spent his hidden fortune on it, or the citizens of Jump gave to the Titans free of charge. However, it happened is irrelevant, especially considering all the inconsietancies with this show.

If Slack was such a fanboy, then he would've stated so, genius.

But, we know full well that Slack does follow the comics somewhat (ex: Season 4, Terror of Trigon; Season 2: Judas Contract), but just not fully, because he wants the show to be all his own...

What happened to him being a fanboy? :rolleyes

[Raven#1]

You can be a fanboy and still try to make something your own you know...

[jaydawg]

Thats bull**** and you know it. Can't state they're names? Thats the dumbest **** I've ever heard. What better way to care for a hero then to know they're life inside and out of costume? Why do you think Spider-man was such a revolution to the comic industry?

[Raven#1]

I heard you. But, that's why I think team Slack is a bunch of newbies. They, obviously don't know this, and want to keep secret identities, well, secret.

[King Ruler]

What do you mean "they don't know this"? Puh-leeze. You're just trying to find a reason to justify your opinion. If you think that they're "newbies", just say so and leave it at that. Or better yet, just keep it to yourself 'cause the majority of the people here are gonna pretty much go on you for saying stuff like that.

[Raven#1]

Fine. I'm just gonna shut up...There's only a few people who actually have good conversations with me without harping on my ass...

[GL1]

Well, if you'd stop harping on Terra's ass (and learn to seperate continuities like Comics vs TV vs Earth-2) then we could be reall good friends :)

Wondergilr is yet ANOTHER flying superstrong character... not only does she overlap with Starfire in powers AND personality, but she brings nothing new to the team... in the comics in the 70s, sure she was great, thing were different, but in a show centered around five kids with distinct powers and personalities, Wondergirl just doesn't fit... sorry...

And Marv Woflman's outdated... Terra is a Teen Titan... and she's coming back... albeit in an 'interesting way' (meaning she's probably not "REALLY" coming back and definitely not staying on the team)... but I'll get to see that black tee in action again and boy... is that gonna be cool...

[corvus_luna]

alright, time for corvus peacmaker to say her peace.

jaydawg, just because raven#1 doesn't put "well, this is what i think but i could be wrong" on every post, it doesn't take a genius to guess that's his personal opinion and therefore not necessarily the truth. and he has every right to defend his ideas, whether you agree or not.
and don't think i'm defending raven#1 for the hell of it, out of all the arguments i've read between you guys, it's always raven having an opinion and you nitpicking the hell out of it. it's fine to disagree but for the love of god try being mature and stating your thoughts in a more appropriate manner.

[Raven#1]

And to GL, it is Wolfman's comics Slack gets his stuff from, so his opinion is not outdated. And people can lie, you know. Yes kiddies, superheroes can lie. I still think Terra is not a Titan, because aside from the episodes surrounding her, we never saw her officially as a Titan, the flashbacks in Aftershock pt.2 notwithstanding, because they never officially took place on-camera when Terra was with the Titans.

[hippie_hunter]

alright, time for corvus peacmaker to say her peace.

jaydawg, just because raven#1 doesn't put "well, this is what i think but i could be wrong" on every post, it doesn't take a genius to guess that's his personal opinion and therefore not necessarily the truth. and he has every right to defend his ideas, whether you agree or not.
and don't think i'm defending raven#1 for the hell of it, out of all the arguments i've read between you guys, it's always raven having an opinion and you nitpicking the hell out of it. it's fine to disagree but for the love of god try being mature and stating your thoughts in a more appropriate manner.

We yell at Raven#1 because:

1. She states her opinions as fact and it gets quite annoying
2. Her facts are 90% wrong
3. She acts like she knows about the comics but knows jack $#!t about them

[Raven#1]

I am A GUY!! And I never say my opinion as fact. I simply try to find sources to back up my opinion and then you shoot them down.

[hippie_hunter]

I am A GUY!! And I never say my opinion as fact. I simply try to find sources to back up my opinion and then you shoot them down.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif :eek:

[corvus_luna]

i understand why you fight with him, i just think your reasons are immature. like i said, he may state his opions as fact, but in my opinion, i believe it's just his way of posting. and if his facts are 90% wrong, that doesn't mean you need to scream and b****, theres no law saying you can't politely correct ppl.
finally, again, on reason #3, opinion. it is allowed in this country. as is yours, but being civilized about it isn't going to kill you.

[hippie_hunter]

Hall of the Fallen, as in, people who've died? And George and Marv made the comics and they said she is NOT a Titan...

Terra joined the Teen Titans in New Teen Titans #30 by Marv Wolfman

[Raven#1]

And Marv himself plainly stated his Terra was NOT a Titan. Check titanstower.com for more info on the Titans, period...

[corvus_luna]

is that on the comics or on the tv show?

[hippie_hunter]

And Marv himself plainly stated his Terra was NOT a Titan. Check titanstower.com for more info on the Titans, period...

From Titanstower.com

http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/terra.html

It downright says that Terra joins the team.

[Raven#1]

He means comic Terra, but TV Terra is not too far off from her somewhat physco background (still betrays the Titans, still tries to kill them, still turns on Slade and ends up 'stone dead'--until she's revived, that is).

[corvus_luna]

ah, gotcha

[Raven#1]

The only difference is that the creators try to pass Terra off as a misunderstood girl looking for a place to belong and while TV Terra was simply turned to stone, comic Terra was crushed by boulders...and yet, she still returned. However, she soon fades into obsecurity, leaving the core Titans by themselves once again.

Also, unlike comic Terra who was forevermore a cold-hearted [bleep], TV Terra only became that in two episodes (Betrayal, Aftershock pt.1). However IMO, Terra knew what she was doing by joining Slade, considering she felt she had no remorse (Aftershock pt.1's monolgue) and basically threw her relationship with any of the Titans--including BB--down the perverbial hole, when she said, "I wanted to be this way. I wanted to go with Slade. And now, I never want to see your face ever again"!

[corvus_luna]

cool, it makes sense though that they would want to play down terra's evil, after all,it is a kid's show.

[Raven#1]

*nods* And you want proof to prove Terra is not a Titan? Fine. Here's words from Marv and George themselves, courtesy of titanstower:

Now, I love puncturing balloons, and I decided if some fans thought we were an X-Men clone, then why not play with them a bit? The X-Men had just introduced a new member to their group, a young 14-year-old cute-as-a-button girl with incredible powers. I'd do the same. I'd play her first as a villain, then seemingly reform her and have her join the Titans. Only I'd have her constantly lie to the Titans, change her stories, do suspicious things, and, in general, make her a louse. I could do that, I knew, because comic book convention would demand that readers ignore all the evidence and assume she was a good girl. After all, the X-Men's Kitty Pryde was a heroine, so even the lying, cheating, conniving Tara Markov had to have a heart of gold.

Right?


Wrong. From the very beginning Tara was conceived as a villainess. It was the first time a member of a super-hero group ever proved to be a spy (not a traitor-she was always working for The Terminator). Playing on the comic readers' expectations worked.

The Tara Markov story threw everyone for a loop. Reader response ranged from hailing the stories as a Titans high point to "How dare you make her evil," (as if I had ever given the readers any reason to think she wasn't) to "For what you did to Tara Markov, I am going to kill you." We sent that death-threat to the police. Unlike our pen-and-ink created heroes and heroines, the writers and artists of the Titans are all too mortal.

As for George on Tara/Terra:

GEORGE: [...] Tara, she was made to be killed; she served her purpose. That was it.

ANDY: You didn't get any attachment to Tara?

GEORGE: No, because I knew we were going to kill her. So I deliberately used all the things to make her as likeable and cute as possible, so people would never believe we were going to kill a sixteen-year-old. And she was a sixteen-year-old physcopath. She was one of our cleverest gimmicks; we deliberately created her in order to lead everyone astray. So we couldn't build any fondness for her, 'cause we knew full well what her whole motive for existence was. Her existence was basically to keep the stories interesting; we were tossing a curve that no one would have expected.

ANDY: You didn 't even love to hate her, huh?

GEORGE: No. I loved handling her, because she was such a good idea. But she was an idea. Not as much a person. She was there to show exactly how much their humanity can be one thing they have to be careful about, the Teen Titans have to be careful about. . . they can be too trusting, or their own weaknesses can be used against them.

And Wolfman's own mouth says Terra was not a Titan:

[...] And I was honest about it, because in my mind she was never a Titan, and she wasn't even a traitor. She was a very sick person.

[hippie_hunter]

*nods* And you want proof to prove Terra is not a Titan? Fine. Here's words from Marv and George themselves, courtesy of titanstower:

Now, I love puncturing balloons, and I decided if some fans thought we were an X-Men clone, then why not play with them a bit? The X-Men had just introduced a new member to their group, a young 14-year-old cute-as-a-button girl with incredible powers. I'd do the same. I'd play her first as a villain, then seemingly reform her and have her join the Titans. Only I'd have her constantly lie to the Titans, change her stories, do suspicious things, and, in general, make her a louse. I could do that, I knew, because comic book convention would demand that readers ignore all the evidence and assume she was a good girl. Alter all, the X-Men's Kitty Pryde was a heroine, so even the lying, cheating, conniving Tara Markov had to have a heart of gold.

Right?


Wrong. From the very beginning Tara was conceived as a villainess. It was the first time a member of a super-hero group ever proved to be a spy (not a traitor-she was always working for The Terminator). Playing on the comic readers' expectations worked.

The Tara Markov story threw everyone for a loop. Reader response ranged from hailing the stories as a Titans high point to "How dare you make her evil," (as if I had ever given the readers any reason to think she wasn't) to "For what you did to Tara Markov, I am going to kill you." We sent that death-threat to the police. Unlike our pen-and-ink created heroes and heroines, the writers and artists of the Titans are all too mortal.

As for George on Tara/Terra:

GEORGE: [...] Tara, she was made to be killed; she served her purpose. That was it.

ANDY: You didn't get any attachment to Tara?

GEORGE: No, because I knew we were going to kill her. So I deliberately used all the things to make her as likeable and cute as possible, so people would never believe we were going to kill a sixteen-year-old. And she was a sixteen-year-old physcopath. She was one of our cleverest gimmicks; we deliberately created her in order to lead everyone astray. So we couldn't build any fondness for her, 'cause we knew full well what her whole motive for existence was. Her existence was basically to keep the stories interesting; we were tossing a curve that no one would have expected.

ANDY: You didn 't even love to hate her, huh?

GEORGE: No. I loved handling her, because she was such a good idea. But she was an idea. Not as much a person. She was there to show exactly how much their humanity can be one thing they have to be careful about, the Teen Titans have to be careful about. . . they can be too trusting, or their own weaknesses can be used against them.

And Wolfman's own mouth says Terra was not a Titan:

[...] And I was honest about it, because in my mind she was never a Titan, and she wasn't even a traitor. She was a very sick person.

Not a single word in that interview says that Terra was never a Titan. It says that she was always meant to be a villain. As a matter in fact it even says that she was a member of the Teen Titans

It was the first time a member of a super-hero group ever proved to be a spy

She joined the Teen Titans to spy on them for Deathstroke. END OF STORY.

[corvus_luna]

check the words in red, right above were you said they never said she wasn't a titan.

[King Ruler]

And Marv himself plainly stated his Terra was NOT a Titan. Check titanstower.com for more info on the Titans, period...

Yes, MARV said that she wasn't a Titan, but Slack can make her one if he wants to, seeing as how it's HIS show. Not MARV'S. Get that through your head. And he DID make her a Titan, so there. Leave it at that!
You see, Raven? All you had to say was "I don't think Terra ever was a Titan" and leave it at that. But here you go throwing out stuff that Marv said, and it clearly says "IN HIS MIND" Terra was never a Titan. It didn't say in the comics she wasn't a Titan. But in his mind. But here you go again not wanting to listen to anyone, which always leads to another argument.

[hippie_hunter]

check the words in red, right above were you said they never said she wasn't a titan.

I though that was another one of Raven#1's opinions. But that is Wolfman's own mind. In his mind she never was a Titan because of what she did. The Titans don't do that stuff to each other. What makes them different from all the different superhero groups is that they are more of a family than a fighting force. Because of her spying for Deathstroke, in a true sense Terra is not a Titan. But officially membership-wise she was a Titan

[Raven#1]

Check the words in red dude. Wolfman said it himself. Terra, in his mind, was not a Titan, and as such, in my eyes, she isn't, because it is Wolfman's comic that the show is based off of. Besides as corvus said, because the Titans are more of a family unit, due to Terra's spying, she wasn't a Titan. True, membership-wise she was a Titan, but she only joined in order to spy, which in turn, nulifies her membership, IMO.

[hippie_hunter]

Check the words in red dude. Wolfman said it himself. Terra, in his mind, was not a Titan, and as such, in my eye's, she isn't, because it is Wolfman's comic that the show is based off of.

You're f**king hopeless you know that :o

As I have already said its in Wolfman's own MIND. In a way he is right. The Titans are more of a family than a fighting force. You don't spy on your own family. So in the truest sense she was not a Titan. But yes she did join the Teen Titans TO SPY ON THEM FOR DEATHSTROKE. She pretended to be one of them.

[hippie_hunter]

Also even if Wolfman says that he never had Terra officially Titans, the comics have been retconned to have her as a traitorous member. Just like Wolfman's orign of Nightwing being retconned from retiring from the mantle because he wanted his own man and he would always be the last part of Batman and Robin into Batman fired him because the Joker shot him, and even that was retconned into Batman fired him for no damn reason because he's a dickwad (probally due to his mindwipe)

[Raven#1]

Well, too bad the retconned stuff don't mean jack. I mean, BB's origin with the Doom Patrol was retconned, but the DP is still appearing, thus, making the Doom Patrol still part of BB's life and because the Doom Patrol was around during Terra's not being a Titan phase, I still say she is not a Titan, IMO.

[Angelus7181]

*nods* And you want proof to prove Terra is not a Titan? Fine. Here's words from Marv and George themselves, courtesy of titanstower:

Now, I love puncturing balloons, and I decided if some fans thought we were an X-Men clone, then why not play with them a bit? The X-Men had just introduced a new member to their group, a young 14-year-old cute-as-a-button girl with incredible powers. I'd do the same. I'd play her first as a villain, then seemingly reform her and have her join the Titans. Only I'd have her constantly lie to the Titans, change her stories, do suspicious things, and, in general, make her a louse. I could do that, I knew, because comic book convention would demand that readers ignore all the evidence and assume she was a good girl. After all, the X-Men's Kitty Pryde was a heroine, so even the lying, cheating, conniving Tara Markov had to have a heart of gold.

Right?


Wrong. From the very beginning Tara was conceived as a villainess. It was the first time a member of a super-hero group ever proved to be a spy (not a traitor-she was always working for The Terminator). Playing on the comic readers' expectations worked.

The Tara Markov story threw everyone for a loop. Reader response ranged from hailing the stories as a Titans high point to "How dare you make her evil," (as if I had ever given the readers any reason to think she wasn't) to "For what you did to Tara Markov, I am going to kill you." We sent that death-threat to the police. Unlike our pen-and-ink created heroes and heroines, the writers and artists of the Titans are all too mortal.

As for George on Tara/Terra:

GEORGE: [...] Tara, she was made to be killed; she served her purpose. That was it.

ANDY: You didn't get any attachment to Tara?

GEORGE: No, because I knew we were going to kill her. So I deliberately used all the things to make her as likeable and cute as possible, so people would never believe we were going to kill a sixteen-year-old. And she was a sixteen-year-old physcopath. She was one of our cleverest gimmicks; we deliberately created her in order to lead everyone astray. So we couldn't build any fondness for her, 'cause we knew full well what her whole motive for existence was. Her existence was basically to keep the stories interesting; we were tossing a curve that no one would have expected.

ANDY: You didn 't even love to hate her, huh?

GEORGE: No. I loved handling her, because she was such a good idea. But she was an idea. Not as much a person. She was there to show exactly how much their humanity can be one thing they have to be careful about, the Teen Titans have to be careful about. . . they can be too trusting, or their own weaknesses can be used against them.

And Wolfman's own mouth says Terra was not a Titan:

[...] And I was honest about it, because in my mind she was never a Titan, and she wasn't even a traitor. She was a very sick person.


And yet they seemingly brought Terra back from her "death" which enilates your whole point all together. IMO they knew they had to give in and admit that the character gained comic grounds with many fans. Which leads to one question...

Are you slow?

That was all statments on the COMIC Terra! We are focusing on the ANIMATED Terra! Show me something where it relates to the series NOT the comics. And since your so hooked on titantower.com notice how they have Terra under TEAM MEMBERS,not under Titans Allies or under "The Bad Guys".

And another thing...

And to GL, it is Wolfman's comics Slack gets his stuff from, so his opinion is not outdated. And people can lie, you know. Yes kiddies, superheroes can lie. I still think Terra is not a Titan, because aside from the episodes surrounding her, we never saw her officially as a Titan, the flashbacks in Aftershock pt.2 notwithstanding, because they never officially took place on-camera when Terra was with the Titans.

You are so full it. Now your stating that the Titans lied about Terra being a Titan so they wouldn't disappoint most of their viewers!? And for in order for something to actually take place we have to see everything that goes behind every single time they present a flashback!?

Your officially a hopless nut case.

[Raven#1]

Hopeless maybe, nutcase no. Besides, you do know that Terra might have been listed until team members, but that's because she was being Terra II, and didn't remember what she did. But, we find out that the original Terra was Terra II. Regardless, the little physcotic rock-n'-roller remains as a lone wolf character, doing things her way, and is rumored to join the new Titans East (based off the show and brought into the comics), but in the true sense of family, morale, and actually being a Titan, she was never that, for she only became one for evil reasons...so, in a sense, she is a bad guy protraying a good guy.

[Angelus7181]

Hopeless maybe, nutcase no.


Really? It's hard to tell from here. You have nothing on Terra bucko, everything you pull out is useless. :down

[Raven#1]

You just saying that because IMO:
1. You agree with jay and KR
2. You like Terra

Well...
1. jay and KR aren't acting mature for their ages, insulting others for their opinions and whatnot
2. I hate Terra (Tara), regardless, for I view the Titans as their true-to-life comic selves, otherwise, Slack wouldn't have given us hints to the Titans' secret identies (ex: for Robin, see Fractured, How Long is Forever, and Haunted)

[Angelus7181]

You just saying that because IMO:
1. You agree with jay and KR
2. You like Terra

Well...
1. jay and KR aren't acting mature for their ages, insulting others for their opinions and whatnot
2. I hate Terra (Tara), regardless, for I view the Titans as their true-to-life comic selves, otherwise, Slack wouldn't have given us hints to the Titans' secret identies (ex: for Robin, see Fractured, How Long is Forever, and Haunted)

Yes I'm a Terra fan ( The Animated one ) which is why I'm defending her from all of your crappy statements. Jay and KR don't seem to block things that are the obvious, when you just keep coming up with weak punches just to prove that you are right and declare your hatred for Terra.. that IMO is "immature".

Your blined by hatred to see this version of Terra. She has fallen in the wrong path, finally realizing it and tried doing what was right by redeeming herself at the end. You have to be a cold person not to see this.

[rigel7soldiers]

Hm... If it's Cassie, sure. But, the same powers as Star, without starbolts, seems very redundant.

[corvus_luna]

PEOPLE!!! IT'S A CARTOON!!!!!
chill the f*** out!!!
again, it is OK for one person to like a character and the other to not like the character.
raven#1 doesn't believe terra was a true titan.
THAT'S OK!!!
Angelus, hippie, and King believe she was a true titan.
THA'TS ALSO OK!!!!
their's no such thing as a wrong opinion. and its OK for someone to want to defend their opinion.
OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*huff huff*

[Raven#1]

I heard that. Each to their own. People (man, woman, boy, girl, etc.) were all created equal.

[hippie_hunter]

Well, too bad the retconned stuff don't mean jack. I mean, BB's origin with the Doom Patrol was retconned, but the DP is still appearing, thus, making the Doom Patrol still part of BB's life and because the Doom Patrol was around during Terra's not being a Titan phase, I still say she is not a Titan, IMO.

Beast Boy's orign with the Doom Patrol has not been retconned at all. The new Doom Patrol book has no ties with the orignal series at all and has been given a clean slate of continuity like Black Panther and Legion of Superheroes. The new book sucks ass and is going to be canceled in a few months according to rumors. The Doom Patrol in the DCU is still considered to be a team MIA and is still an important part of Beast Boy's life. And what does the Doom Patrol being around during Terra's time with the Titans have to do with you thinking that she is not a Titan.

Also the retconned stuff replaces the originals. The Long Halloween is now the in-continuity story of the orign of Two-Face. Dark Victory/The Gauntlet/Robin Year One is now the orign of Robin. Jason Todd was retconned from a young circus acrobat whose parents were killed by Killer Croc into the angry little f**ker who tried to steal the tires off the Batmobile and was killed off by the Joker. Birthright replaced Man of Steel. Nightwing Year One is now the orign of Nightwing and why he is no longer Robin.

[hippie_hunter]

Hopeless maybe, nutcase no. Besides, you do know that Terra might have been listed until team members, but that's because she was being Terra II, and didn't remember what she did. But, we find out that the original Terra was Terra II. Regardless, the little physcotic rock-n'-roller remains as a lone wolf character, doing things her way, and is rumored to join the new Titans East (based off the show and brought into the comics), but in the true sense of family, morale, and actually being a Titan, she was never that, for she only became one for evil reasons...so, in a sense, she is a bad guy protraying a good guy.

Terra II was part of the Team Titans. They list Terra I as a member of the Teen Titans. And the future Titans East is not based on the animated Titans East. Its a resistance force to fight the Titans West. Personally I can't wait for the Titans East to come. In my OPINION, and I hope, that it will contain the former adult Titans: Nightwing, Troia, Arsenal, the Flash, Tempest, Starfire, Beast Boy, Raven, Cyborg, Omen, the Golden Eagle, Bumblebee, and the Herald.

[Raven#1]

But in the future, it is said that BB fights Cyborg and Terra said it was 'cause in the past, BB didn't go with her and Bee tells her not to be living in the past...

[hippie_hunter]

But in the future, it is said that BB fights Cyborg and Terra said it was 'cause in the past, BB didn't go with her and Bee tells her not to be living in the past...

WTF are you talking about?

The Titans East that will show up in the comics next year will be different than the Titans East in Titans of Tommorrow. The Teen Titans managed to change the future. Some things will happen, we don't know what yet. Some things will not happen, such as the Titans West taking over the United States to create a police state. Or BatTim will go off wielding a gun. We'll probally see more of things like Captain Marvel Jr. joining the Teen Titans. Or the Ravenger breaking free of her father's influence and joining the Teen Titans.

[Raven#1]

Well, Rose WANTS to be like her daddy, so that, IMO seems unlikely...

[hippie_hunter]

Well, Rose WANTS to be like her daddy, so that, IMO seems unlikely...

Yeah because her dad tricked her.

[Raven#1]

And yet, he was the one to put her with the Titans in the first place?

[hippie_hunter]

Because Deathstroke didn't want anything to do with her then, so he sent her to a place that will take care of her

[Raven#1]

And he chose his worst enemies? Nice call for an evil genius...

[hippie_hunter]

Deathstroke isn't really evil. He's more of an anti-villain. He'll work for anyone if the money's right. Good or Bad.

[Raven#1]

I know that, but his main foes are the Titans and yet, he stations his daughter with them? Bad call, even for an anti-hero.

[hippie_hunter]

I know that, but his main foes are the Titans and yet, he stations his daughter with them? Bad call, even for an anti-hero.

Deathstroke's main foes are not the Titans. He is like Dr. Light a foe of the entire DCU. Not linked to a particular character. Right now it looks like he's being set up to be more of a Green Arrow villain. He'll even work with the heroes once and a while depending on the situation

[Raven#1]

TV wise, like during the Trigon mess?

[King Ruler]

their's no such thing as a wrong opinion. and its OK for someone to want to defend their opinion.
OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm not trying to start up the argument again, I'm just replying to this statement. It's not that we're trying to change his opinion, we're trying to correct him on his mistakes. We really don't care if he thinks that Terra wasn't a Titan. It's just that he doesn't leave it at that. He tries to go out and post up the wrong facts trying to show his opinion as fact.
"I don't feel that Terra wasn't a Titan and Marv said that she wasn't, so there, she wasn't a Titan."
That's basically what he was saying and we were just correcting him. Marv said in HIS mind. He didn't say that he never WROTE her as a Titan, nor has he confirmed it. He just said in HIS mind. If Raven had just let it go and still THOUGHT that Terra was never a Titan, then everything would be cool. But then he comes back again after we just disproved the opinions of the writers that he is getting mixed up with fact. We're just merely showing him the way. The main reason why it seems like we flame on him and crap is because he just won't listen and it REALLY grows infuriating. The reason why YOU don't seem to understand, corvus, is because you don't really know as much as hippie, jay, and I do about the comics. That's why you can't really tell the difference, either.
I hope that cleared it up.

[Raven#1]

It does...

[hippie_hunter]

TV wise, like during the Trigon mess?

Comic wise too. Slade teamed up with the Titans before when Trigon threatened the Earth. And if you pay him good enough he'll team up with you. Hence why he protected Dr. Light. That's why in Titans of Tommorrow he gathered information on the Time Treadmill for the Titans East. Thats why he took up a contract by H.I.V.E to assassinate the Teen Titans

[Raven#1]

Actually, the contract he was obligated to do to avenge his son...

[hippie_hunter]

no way man, superboy needs to be in Teen Titans, he's like the coolest character ever, so yeah...

Not this version of Teen Titans. Superboy does not belong on a show influenced by the Marv Wolfman era of Teen Titans

[hippie_hunter]

Actually, the contract he was obligated to do to avenge his son...

It was more of finishing his son's work than avenging. He really blames himself for the way his children turned out

[Raven#1]

It could harm it because there are licensing issues and this is the second team, not the third.

[jaydawg]

Nothing could harm this show. Its barely decent. And if this was the second team, Speedy, Aqualad, Kid Flash and Wonder Girl would all be on the team. Its based. Just like how X-men:TAS had the bulk of the 90s roster, but told stories from every era of X-men. Just like how if this show was really based of the Perez era, everything would be a whole lot darker. Mad Mod showed up once in the original Titans run. I guess that means he should never show up on this show huh?

If anything this show is based off Peter David's Young Justice. Frankly I dont understand why they didnt just make a show out of that (although I bet I would hate it considering YJ was teens acting like teens and this show is pretty much for elementary school students). I mean it has the roster everyone wants and the "silly" villains that are more intune with this show.

[hippie_hunter]

Nothing could harm this show. Its barely decent. And if this was the second team, Speedy, Aqualad, Kid Flash and Wonder Girl would all be on the team. Its based. Just like how X-men:TAS had the bulk of the 90s roster, but told stories from every era of X-men. Just like how if this show was really based of the Perez era, everything would be a whole lot darker. Mad Mod showed up once in the original Titans run. I guess that means he should never show up on this show huh?

If anything this show is based off Peter David's Young Justice. Frankly I dont understand why they didnt just make a show out of that (although I bet I would hate it considering YJ was teens acting like teens and this show is pretty much for elementary school students). I mean it has the roster everyone wants and the "silly" villains that are more intune with this show.

:up:

[King Ruler]

Agreed, man. I want my YJ, gawd damnit.

[Raven#1]

I prefer the Titans, but suit yourselves.

[corvus_luna]

well, coming back, i find i must apologize for b****in at everyone, it really doesn't help matters.
you all have my apologies.
now, on topic,
i would agree that the Teen Titans need something new, but i really don't think we should be adding new characters, that just seems like the cheap and lazy way out, IMO.
anyone seen the Justice League eppie where half the team got thrown into an alternated universe that was run by the very corny justice guild (and the bad guys were the injustice guild)? if they were to possibly do something like that, without copying it, that might be a nice change, what do you guys/girls think??

[Raven#1]

Not for me thanks. I prefer the subtly of the core five. It becoming a junior Justice League is turning me off to the series somewhat...

[corvus_luna]

that's what a meant, not to add anyone, just have them visit a parallel universe for a while. it would make it slightly more interesting, IMO.

[Raven#1]

I see. But, I was meaning in reality, as TT is slowly becoming a young Justice League, as this season has Titans West (the core five), Titans East, the Honorary Titans (Hotspot, Wilderbeest, and Thunder & Lightning, etc.), newer members (Kid Flash, Jericho, Kole, etc.), The Doom Patrol (along with Mento and Elasti-girl, BB's foster folks) and just maybe, even a certain blond return to fight "the League of Craptastic Villians" (i.e. every minor villian, along with the Brotherhood of Evil; meaning everyone that's not: Slade, Trigon, Brother Blood, Blackfire, and someone else).

[corvus_luna]

blegh, drop everything that's planned for the new season and start over is my opinion. that's just crappy sounding.

[Raven#1]

I agree, but what can you do? I mean, team Slack is also working on a Legion of Superheroes idea and SuperBoy (an AU version), though a member of Geoff's Titan team (which still has BB and Raven as mentors, what with Cy MIA and Dick and Kori off who-knows-where), became a Legion member. So, in MY opinion, Slack could put this as the Titans' last season and precurser it to the Legion of Superheroes idea.

[corvus_luna]

aw, the titan's last season!! sad.
it would have lasted longer if they didn't make the end of the world come so soon and end so quickly. they've pretty much used up everything.

[Raven#1]

Not really. They haven't even had a "down time" episode where the Titans reminesed about their pasts (i.e.; an origin episode that shows their pasts and secret identies).

[corvus_luna]

true, but as far as big climatic action, everything would feel old after the terra and raven arcs.

[Raven#1]

Yeah. That is true.

[King Ruler]

I mean, team Slack is also working on a Legion of Superheroes idea and SuperBoy (an AU version)...

Okay, when was this stated?

[Raven#1]

You did say an alternate universe version of SuperBoy was a member of the Legion before being retconned...

[King Ruler]

Yes, in the comics he was apart of the Legion before being retconned out, but you were talking about Slack's new cartoon. Nowhere has it been stated that any Superboy will appear on Slack's Legion show.

[Raven#1]

No. That was my opinion and I stated it as such, because with SuperBoy as a Titan and a Legion, Slack could theoritically, combine this last season with the new Legion cartoon.

[goka12]

steel should join the JL wit the other supermen

[hippie_hunter]

No. That was my opinion and I stated it as such, because with SuperBoy as a Titan and a Legion, Slack could theoritically, combine this last season with the new Legion cartoon.

No you stated it as fact. To state is as an opinion please add IMO or something like that. I would hate it if LoS was tied to Teen Titans, I'd rather see it tied to the mainstream DCAU

[Raven#1]

"So, in MY opinion, Slack could put this as the Titans' last season and precurser it to the Legion of Superheroes idea."


That states it was my opinion, dude...

[King Ruler]

That statement you just quoted had not a thing to do with this topic. You said that like how many days ago? Jeez, you always do this. You clearly stated this as fact: "...team Slack is also working on a Legion of Superheroes idea and SuperBoy (an AU version)...".
That isn't opinion. You stated that as fact. Get over it.

[Raven#1]

Team Slack IS working on a Legion idea and you told me yourself that a retconned AU SuperBoy--who is also a Titan--was a member of the Legion...

[King Ruler]

No, team Slack isn't working on a Legion show. David Slack, by himself, is. And when I talked about the retconned Superboy, I was talking about the COMICS, while you were talking about Superboy appearing on the new series (correct me if I'm wrong). Well, the superboy you were talking about did NOT appear with the Legion. You were talking about Conner Kent, the currect Superoy, while the only one with the Legion was Clark Kent. Get your fraggin facts straight, genius.
Oh, and just before you say that you weren't tlaking about that Superboy:

"I mean, team Slack is also working on a Legion of Superheroes idea and SuperBoy (an AU version), though a member of Geoff's Titan team (which still has BB and Raven as mentors, what with Cy MIA and Dick and Kori off who-knows-where), became a Legion member."

If you were tlaking about the retconned one, then there was no need for you stating all the, yet again, pointless and useless info about Conner/Superboy being apart of the current Titans team. Once again, you're trying to show how much you know, when in the process, showing how little you know.

[Raven#1]

Oh. So, the AU SuperBoy who is a member of the Legion wasn't a Titan??

[King Ruler]

No. The Titans didn't even exist when Clark Kent was a boy in the comics.

EDIT: And Superboy was no longer ever with the Legion, seeing as how that was written out of history.

[Raven#1]

I see. Sorry for the confusion. I figured that both SuperBoys were Titan members...

[jaydawg]

Here's an idea: Read a comic.

[SapphirePrima]

Why in every forum I see around here Raven#1 is in argument with someone? :confused: On topic Wonder Girl would be cool to see. Weren't there two in the comic version?

[jaydawg]

Three depending on what era were talking about. Wonder Woman was at one point Wonder Girl pre-crisis so, Donna Troy commonly thought of WG I is/was WGII. It gets confusing because that gets retconned in and out. Now post-crisis, Donna Troy was the first WG and now Cassie is the second WG.

Oh and we always fight with Raven because he never gets anything right about the show/ comics and we correct him on it.

[Raven#1]

It can't be Cassie (WG II or III) because she, along with Conner (SuperBoy) have licensing issues and are part of Geoff's third team of Titans which are still being produced...

It'd be silly to have Wonder Woman in there, when she wasn't a teen while Robin (Dick) was, having grown up in the Amazon, becoming Wonder Girl--retconned--and then Wonder Woman, with the only team of hers being as a Justice League member.

[King Ruler]

The Justice League of America, to my understanding, wasn't around when the first team of Titans first started out. And before the Crisis came, Wonder Woman was Wonder Girl apart of that team (correct me if I'm wrong).

[cabel]

I'm up for Wondergirl(be it Donna or Cassie) appearring, but not as a full time member

[hippie_hunter]

The Justice League of America, to my understanding, wasn't around when the first team of Titans first started out. And before the Crisis came, Wonder Woman was Wonder Girl apart of that team (correct me if I'm wrong).

The Justice League started before the Teen Titans, continuity wise. They were formed very shortly after the Silver Age heroes started appearing, with Green Lantern, the Flash, Aquaman, Black Canary, and the Martain Manhunter as the founding members. The Teen Titans started about 2 years after the JLA did

[Raven#1]

True, but Wonder Woman was retconned out of her Titan-hood and nowadays, it'd look silly to have Wonder Woman in there. As for Cassie, she probably won't appear due to licensing issues and continuity issues. Finally, Donna has little chance (more than the others), but isn't likely to appear, because she died and because there are still licensing issues with her character.

[King Ruler]

The only thing restricting Donna from being on the show is licensing laws, not the fact that she died in the comics. If that's the case, then Jericho shouldn't be in season 5.

[Raven#1]

Donna died like right during the beginning/middle of the second team's run, so essentially, we never fully saw her as a member of the second team, did we (correct me if I am wrong)? Ironically, it seemed every dead Titan (Raven, Jericho) returned and yet, Donna hadn't returned until just recently.

[King Ruler]

Wrong yet again. She died like 2 years ago in the comics during the Titans/Young Justice crossover (as in the Titans when they were reunited: Arsenal, Nightwing, Tempest, Flash, and Donna). So how could she have died during the beginning/middle of the second team's run?

[Raven#1]

Oh. Sorry. I thought she had died during the second team's run. But, anyway, according to Geoff, she only just started coming back...

[hippie_hunter]

True, but Wonder Woman was retconned out of her Titan-hood and nowadays, it'd look silly to have Wonder Woman in there. As for Cassie, she probably won't appear due to licensing issues and continuity issues. Finally, Donna has little chance (more than the others), but isn't likely to appear, because she died and because there are still licensing issues with her character.

Wonder Woman was never a Titan

[Raven#1]

King Ruler said she was here: The Justice League of America, to my understanding, wasn't around when the first team of Titans first started out. And before the Crisis came, Wonder Woman was Wonder Girl apart of that team (correct me if I'm wrong).

[hippie_hunter]

King Ruler said she was here: The Justice League of America, to my understanding, wasn't around when the first team of Titans first started out. And before the Crisis came, Wonder Woman was Wonder Girl apart of that team (correct me if I'm wrong).

No, the Wonder Girl that was part of the Titans was always Donna Troy. And continuity wise the JLA founded a few months after the Silver Age heroes started to appear.

[Raven#1]

I figured that, but King Ruler kept saying otherwise...

[jaydawg]

No he didnt. Once again your using someone to cover up what he said. If you thought Donna Troy died in the 80s and not count as a full Titan, why the hell did you always list her when you'd do your pointless roster lists? Once again you prove how little you actually know about this team. BTW, JLA is the sole reason TT even started.

[King Ruler]

I figured that, but King Ruler kept saying otherwise...

WHAT THE FRAG! :mad:

King Ruler said she was here: The Justice League of America, to my understanding, wasn't around when the first team of Titans first started out. And before the Crisis came, Wonder Woman was Wonder Girl apart of that team (correct me if I'm wrong).

What part of CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG don't you fraggin' get?! I obvoiusly knew I was somewhat wrong on the matter, which is why I said correct me. You are seriously pissing me the **** off. :mad:

And in regards to what hunter wrote: That is after the Infinite Crisis, right? I get really confused when Crisis talk gets brought up.

[jaydawg]

Yeah, WW was never a Titan post-crisis.

[King Ruler]

Alright. At least that bit of the Crisis has been cleared for me. :p

[Raven#1]

But, I thought we were discussing pre-Crisis??

[jaydawg]

We're discussing everything about the character. I would tell you to try and keep up but it wouldnt benefit the discussion much.

[Raven#1]

I see. Well, I prefer post-crisis WG anyway.

[jaydawg]

Really? Why? I'd like to actually know....provided you dont just post something off Titanstower.

[Raven#1]

I prefer her because pre-crisis, King Ruler says Wonder Woman was Wonder Girl, and to me, it's silly to have Wonder Woman as a Titan...

[King Ruler]

The only reason why I said that was because jay informed me on that. You make it sound like I've been throwing thatinfo out there form the beginning. Jeez!

[Raven#1]

I didn't say you've been saying it from the start have I?

[King Ruler]

Keyword, genius: LIKE! I said you're saying it LIKE I've been throwing this stuff out in the beginning.
But you keep bringing my name up in every conversation about Wonder Woman pre-crisis, and it's fragging annoying.

[jaydawg]

Jesus, I'm the one who said it. And just so you know, when Donna Troy showed up in the 2nd generation of the Titans, thats when they said that all previous WG adventures were really a young Diana. That alone proves that you dont know jack about any version of WG. Besides WW wasnt a Titan while being Wonder Woman. Duh.

[Raven#1]

True, but it's like...she's Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl at the same time given that Wonder Woman had her own show (live-action) and was a member of the Superfriends, while being a Titan apparently...

[King Ruler]

The Live action show was not connected to the cartoons, so you comparing it with the cartoons make no sense (as always).

[hippie_hunter]

True, but it's like...she's Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl at the same time given that Wonder Woman had her own show (live-action) and was a member of the Superfriends, while being a Titan apparently...

WTF, that makes no sense at all.

[Raven#1]

Ok. Superfriends had Diana as Wonder Woman. Meanwhile, she was Wonder Girl in TT (according to the fact the past adventures were said to be a young Diana) at that same time (60's), so therefore, she'd be Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl during the same era...

[hippie_hunter]

Ok. Superfriends had Diana as Wonder Woman. Meanwhile, she was Wonder Girl in TT (according to the fact the past adventures were said to be a young Diana) at that same time (60's), so therefore, she'd be Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl during the same era...

Wonder Girl in Teen Titans was always Donna and as a matter in fact Diana was never Wonder Girl EVER :mad:

[Raven#1]

jaydawg said, "And just so you know, when Donna Troy showed up in the 2nd generation of the Titans, thats when they said that all previous WG adventures were really a young Diana."

And Diana IS Wonder Woman, so pre-crisis, they say Wonder Woman (as Wonder Girl) was a Titan.

[hippie_hunter]

jaydawg said, "And just so you know, when Donna Troy showed up in the 2nd generation of the Titans, thats when they said that all previous WG adventures were really a young Diana."

He's wrong then, Diana was never Wonder Girl. Not even Pre-Crisis

And Diana IS Wonder Woman, so pre-crisis, they say Wonder Woman (as Wonder Girl) was a Titan.

*bangs head on desk*

[Raven#1]

It's not my fault, for they said it, not me...

[jaydawg]

Alot of WG's adventures were retconned into being Diana's adventures as a child in the pre-crisis. I dont know if that was retconned out again pre-crisis, but it did happen. Its one of the reasons that Donna's origin is so convulted and up there with Power Girl. And just because I say something dont try to tie it into your bull**** theories.

[Raven#1]

So who is right? You who says "Alot of WG's adventures were retconned into being Diana's adventures as a child in the pre-crisis" or hippie hunter who says "He's wrong then, Diana was never Wonder Girl, not even Pre-Crisis"?

[jaydawg]

Why dont you go read a comic book and find out for us.

[hippie_hunter]

The beginnings of Wonder Woman are also convolted due to the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The Earth-1 Wonder Woman died in the Crisis of Infinite Earths and for a while she was gone. She was the Wonder Woman of the Silver Age. She was killed by the Anti-Monitor in a attack similar to that which cured Kid Flash of his condition where his superspeed was killing him every time he used it. However she did not really die. She was deaged back into clay as if nothing ever happened.

The Wonder Woman of Earth-2 was the Golden Age Wonder Woman. She aged just like the Earth-2 Superman and married Steve Trevor just like Earth-2 Superman married Lois Lane. Wonder Woman was forgotten just like Earth-2 Superman. She should have dissapeared but because she was at the Dawn of Time that restarted the Universe, she remained in existance. However she was not supposed to be. The Silver Age of Earth-1 and the Golden Age of Earth-2 combined. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman were more connected to the Silver Age heroes than Golden Age heroes so their Golden Age Earth-2 versions never existed. So Earth-2 Wonder Woman was forgotten like the Earth-2 Superman but remained due to a fluke. At the end of the Crisis on Infinite Earths the Earth-2 Wonder Woman and her husband were sent to Olympus because the gods knew that she would could not be left alone in a world that completely forgotten about her and as a reward for her service to the gods.

The Earth-3 Wonder Woman was Superwoman. The evil version of Wonder Woman. A member of the Crime Syndicate of Amerika. The universe of Earth-3 was destroyed before the Crisis of Infinite Earths ended.

In Zero Hour it was changed to where the Earth-1 Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Fury (the daughter of the Earth-2 Wonder Woman), and the Legion of Superheroes were completely forgotten about along with the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Post-Crisis Wonder Woman showed up after the Crisis on Infinite Earths shortly before the founding of the JLI. With no connection to the Earth-1 or Earth-2 Wonder Woman. But that made no sense because that would mean that Wonder Girl showed up before Wonder Woman, no longer making her Wonder Woman's protoge. They even replaced Wonder Woman with Black Canary as a founding member. To make things even worse some writers such as Geoff Johns have recently been putting Wonder Woman's arrival at an earlier time to where Wonder Girl is a protoge of Wonder Woman and has even been around during the Satelite Era of the JLA, even though she was not, and still is not, a member. Add that to they retconned it to where the Golden Age now has a Wonder Woman with Hippolyta as Wonder Woman and a member of the JSA. Wonder Woman is almost as convolted as Power Girl in terms of the years of her arrival.

[jaydawg]

Yeah, I recall reading her first arc by Perez and while it was good, it made no sense that she was with the JLA and next to Batman was Beast Boy. Perez explained that DC was in a rush for a new WW origin and they warily gave him total control of what to do.

[Raven#1]

Ok. But who is right??

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, I recall reading her first arc by Perez and while it was good, it made no sense that she was with the JLA and next to Batman was Beast Boy. Perez explained that DC was in a rush for a new WW origin and they warily gave him total control of what to do.

Stupid move by DC IMO.

I am starting to think that they are having Wonder Woman show up as one of the last heroes of the Silver Age but was never a member of the first JLA

[jaydawg]

Thats what they did do. The big 7 were no longer the founders of the JLA.

[hippie_hunter]

Thats what they did do. The big 7 were no longer the founders of the JLA.

Aquaman is still a founding member :o

So she did appear before the Crisis on Infinite Earths?

If thats so, that clears up a whole lot for me. Here's to hoping they write a new orign story for Wonder Woman :up:

[Raven#1]

I hope they clear all this up.

[hippie_hunter]

I hope they clear all this up.

You don't even read Wonder Woman so why do you care?

[Raven#1]

I might not read it, but it'd be better than trying to argue over her origin...

[hippie_hunter]

I might not read it, but it'd be better than trying to argue over her origin...

Whats to argue you know jack $#!t about it. And it was not an arguement it was a simple confusion that you made worse.

[Raven#1]

Geez, no need to get all "you suck" at me...

[King Ruler]

Geez, no need to get all "you suck" at me...

http://s05.imagehost.org/1215/dramallama.jpg

[IronLion]

i read earlier that kid flash is going to be a new member and it is going to be wally west. isnt wally west the flash in jlu? i'm new here and from the uk, so unlike most of you guys, i dont have all the info and backstories. i know about some of the stories, but having wally west on two shows as different guys is just dumb.


oh , IMO it is dumb. lol.

[GL1]

Heh... well, two things

1) JLU and TT are not connected. They exist in two different universes. They don't coincide... at all.... don't try to put them together cuz, though they're based off of related characters, they aren't related at all...

2) Even if they WERE related/in the same universe, Dick Grayson is Robin on TT, but he's already grown and Nightwing in the JLU Universe... so at worst, assume that Teen Titans takes place 5-10 years before JLU...

I mean, you could consider it dumb, but if they show a young wally west on one show and an older wally west on another, isn't it simple to assume that they occur at different times during his life?

Besides... they're probably not going to mention his real name, since they don't for Robin (at least, not directly and not without years of fan grumbling...)

[Raven#1]

True to all of it. However, maybe if they do the origin episode, they'll fill in all the loose ends.

[King Ruler]

Yes, Kid Flash will be Wally, for anyone still questioning that notion. For anyone trying to connect the two continuities: don't. It just won't make any sense. Just except the fact that the two aren't connected, 'cause they're not. To make it simple, think of it as like two entirely different dimensions, where you have like alternate egos of yourself. So you can basically call Kid Flash the alternate ego of The Flash from the other continuity.

[Raven#1]

But as said by GL1, "even if they WERE related/in the same universe, Dick Grayson is Robin on TT, but he's already grown and Nightwing in the JLU Universe... so at worst, assume that Teen Titans takes place 5-10 years before JLU..." and I do assume that.

[King Ruler]

WHY did you feel the need to reply with that quote? I can read. I read what he said. If you assume that then fine. No one cares.

[King Ruler]

And also, I don't see why anyone would even try to assume that Teen Titans takes place before JL/U (unless they're just TRYING to find a way to connect non connected shows) does, especially since it has been publicly announced by both writers of JL/U AND the "Teen Titans" staff that the two shows are NOT connected in anyway. It's okay to think they are, but anyone who does is just in denial at the fact that they're not connected.
I mean, if they are connected, how come Slade's not in JL/U? How come Wally hasn't mentioned being a Titan in JL/U yet? Same goes for Nightwing? :rolleyes:

[Ratcrawler]

As for Robin, aka Dick, we already know his origin, but his real name was noted by demension-hopping Larry in Fractured, his future self (Nightwing) was seen in How Long is Forever, and his parents infamous plunge and him becoming Bat's ward was seen by Raven in Haunted.

I thought this Robin was Tim. There was an episode of Static Shock that went;

Static: Where's Robin?

Batman: He's with the Titans.

Static: Who?

[King Ruler]

^ No, Robin Dick Grayson. That line in "Static Shock!" was just put there to hint at a crossover between the Titans and Static before "Teen Titans" aired, but the idea was later scrapped in favor of Static teaming up with the JL. So that line means nothing now.

[Ratcrawler]

Ah. Gotcha.

[Raven#1]

Besides, only Dick loves Starfire or becomes Nightwing. And if you watch Fractured, Larry puts his name on-screen and as it rolls backwards, Dick Grayson can be easily read...

[hippie_hunter]

What did that have to do with anything? You're just trying to get your name on top of every thread :o

[Raven#1]

I was helping King Ruler with the "Robin is Dick" thing...

[GL1]

Well... Tim isn't Tim... Tim is really Jason Todd... and Dick isn't really Dick... he's more like Dick/Tim... Dim... Tick... whatever... I mean, he does do the whole Starfire thing, but c'mon... long pants! a staff! Give Tim Drake his due!

[IronLion]

ok, alternate universe... i got it.

[Raven#1]

Look. In the episode Fractured, Larry, Robin's reality-bending midget clone said his name was Nosyarg Kcid, which is Dick Grayson backwards. Only Dick Grayson's Robin becomes Nightwing (How Long Is Forever), from TV, comic, or otherwise. Only Dick's Robin had a thing for Koriander, Tamaranian Princess (aka Starfire). And as we (and Raven) saw in Haunted, the infamous plunge of Robin's folks and him swearing the oath to become Batman's protege and partner is the origin of one Dick Grayson.

As for the long pants and whatever, Dick wore the exact same costume during his last run on Batman: The Animated Series, because the FCC frowned on his 60's "Holy...Batman" attire.

Onto the staff...it is pointless because anyone can use it. Heck, Robin's not the only one to use it, for Slade (alias Deathstroke) uses the staff frequently, whereas in the comics, he prefers (and is allowed to have) guns and other dangerous firearms that are not suited for children.

Another thing to add is that this show is based off the Wolfman and Perez era of the Titans (the second incarnation), and on the second team, there is Dick Grayson (Robin), Koriander (Starfire), Garfield Logan (Beast Boy/Changeling), Raven, and Victor Stone (Cyborg). Hints were given to their secret identities in varying episodes (for Cy, Deception and part of The End pt.2 were his hints).

Besides, when someone asked at the comic con about Robin's identity, at first it was thought that Robin was a combination of all three, but now, all the creators say is "Watch Fractured" and in that episode, Robin is Dick Grayson, and as such, Teen Titans (TV series) Robin is Dick Grayson.

[King Ruler]

WHY do you ALWAYS do this? We already got the message! We all know now that Robin is meant to be Dick. GL knows it. IronLion knows. We ALL know it now. There was no need for you to do that. You just always want to have the last post and it is VERY annoying.

[hippie_hunter]

As for the long pants and whatever, Dick wore the exact same costume during his last run on Batman: The Animated Series, because the FCC frowned on his 60's "Holy...Batman" attire.
No, the producers of BTAS decided to go with the Tim Drake design because a college kid running around with no pants looks rediculous

Onto the staff...it is pointless because anyone can use it. Heck, Robin's not the only one to use it, for Slade (alias Deathstroke) uses the staff frequently, whereas in the comics, he prefers (and is allowed to have) guns and other dangerous firearms that are not suited for children.
Deathstroke also uses a bo staff in the comics along with his sword and guns

[IronLion]

i have always assumed robin was dick grayson. but as my manager says, if you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.

from now on i am solely going to explain things with "alternate universe" lol.

Raven#1, you are taking things way TOO seriously. i have been a fan for a long time, admittedly not as much as some of you guys, but come on. just calm down, take a few deep breaths and just get on with it. same goes for the rest of you guys. *ahem* king ruler.http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif.

im not having a go at anyone personally, so please dont take it that way. i think raven#1 is quite informed, but just needs to relax.

look, the title of thread is about wonder girl. why have we got into a giant argument about robin.

to go back to the point of the thread, i think wonder girl should join because i think she should.

[King Ruler]

Yeah, I admit I need to relax sometimes, but if you had the history with Raven#1 like some of do, you'd understand.
As for Wonder girl joining the Titans, I kinda don't want that to happen. I mean, she wouldn't bring anything new to the table. We've already got our superstrong fly girl, AND she shoots lasers. That's enough for me.

[IronLion]

will all the new characters be full time mebers of the team, or just in a few episodes. if she is going to be in titans east and appear every now and then, then it can work.

thing is, imo, this series is aimed at young kids. my daughter is 3 and she watches evrything to do with marvel and dc with me. with the expanded jlu roster, she is always asking me who certain characters are. she knows all the titans, but with an expanded roster this may confuse some of the younger viewers. the only way it will work is if they do eps like jlu, where they concentrate on a few characters ata time.

if so, wonder girl could work.

[King Ruler]

Oh believe me, they'll focus on those characters. Like in the episode "Kole", you'll/she'll learn about the Titan Kole. Then we've got Hotspot basically getting an episode to himself.
Yeah, with the Titans going global this season, expect to get a lot of backstory on SOME of them (I'm not gonna garuntee that EVERYONE get in the spotlight). :)

[Raven#1]

Yeah, but the ones we know will most likely get a backstory like Kid Flash (aka Wally West) in the episode Lightspeed.

[J.R.]

Wonder Girl would be an awesome addition.

[Raven#1]

I'd prefer Donna if any version of Wonder Girl was used because I want the show to keep its characters in continuity (i.e. Dick, Kori, Vic, Gar, Rae, Wally, Joey, Tara, etc.)...

[GL1]

Look. In the episode Fractured, Larry, Robin's reality-bending midget clone said his name was Nosyarg Kcid, which is Dick Grayson backwards. Only Dick Grayson's Robin becomes Nightwing (How Long Is Forever), from TV, comic, or otherwise. Only Dick's Robin had a thing for Koriander, Tamaranian Princess (aka Starfire). And as we (and Raven) saw in Haunted, the infamous plunge of Robin's folks and him swearing the oath to become Batman's protege and partner is the origin of one Dick Grayson.

As for the long pants and whatever, Dick wore the exact same costume during his last run on Batman: The Animated Series, because the FCC frowned on his 60's "Holy...Batman" attire.

Onto the staff...it is pointless because anyone can use it. Heck, Robin's not the only one to use it, for Slade (alias Deathstroke) uses the staff frequently, whereas in the comics, he prefers (and is allowed to have) guns and other dangerous firearms that are not suited for children.

Another thing to add is that this show is based off the Wolfman and Perez era of the Titans (the second incarnation), and on the second team, there is Dick Grayson (Robin), Koriander (Starfire), Garfield Logan (Beast Boy/Changeling), Raven, and Victor Stone (Cyborg). Hints were given to their secret identities in varying episodes (for Cy, Deception and part of The End pt.2 were his hints).

Besides, when someone asked at the comic con about Robin's identity, at first it was thought that Robin was a combination of all three, but now, all the creators say is "Watch Fractured" and in that episode, Robin is Dick Grayson, and as such, Teen Titans (TV series) Robin is Dick Grayson.

Yes Or No, Raven:
Robin on Teen Titans is partially based on Tim Drake?

Yes--The Robin on Teen Titans takes the best of both worlds. Dick's acrobatics, teammates and name, and Tim Drake's detective skills, fighting staff, and Batman-like persona.

No --Any similarities between Tim Drake and Robin on Teen Titans are purely coincidental, no comic books over the last ten to fifteen years are ever considered in reference to Robin in any way whatsover.

Yes or No. I promise, I will not argue with you.

[Raven#1]

True, there have been Robin comic books in the last few years, but as said this show is based off the Wolfman/Perez era of the Titans, which is the second team that Dick "Robin/Nightwing" Grayson leads. In the comics, Dick was just as driven, if not moreso than Tim, considering Tim didn't want to be a Titan at first (Geoff Johns' "A Kid's Game"). The staff is used by both Slade and Robin, so that doesn't mean anything (they both used staffs in the comics too). Dick has the same detective skills as Tim, considering both were protege's to Bruce "Batman" Wayne. Add to it that Dick wore the same costume that was originally intended for Tim during his last run on B:TAS. And finally, watch episodes like Fractured, Haunted (see Dick's origin), and How Long Is Forever (see Dick become Nightwing), so overall, this TV series Robin is Dick Grayson.

How do I know this? titanstower.com and Glen Murkami say so. While titanstower gives out the information on who Robin is, Glen notes right in the paragraphs that he invisions Robin as Dick Grayson and he told people at the comic con that if anyone wishes to know who Robin is, they could simply watch Fractured.

[hippie_hunter]

No, Tim has better detective skills than Bruce. No, Tim was never part of BTAS. He was part of TNBA and got that design. Thats the way it was meant to be

[King Ruler]

Tim is the detective, and Robin is more so the leader and acrobatic. Just because you're a protege of someone doesn't mean you have to be like them to a fault. If that's the case, then Batgirl should be a man.

[Raven#1]

Look, go to titanstower and they openly say Robin is Dick straight from Murkami's mouth and I was talking about Dick wearing the costume on B:TAS, and I know Tim would soon wear it on TNBA. Due to Dick being driven (comic-wise), being in love with Star, becoming Nightwing, and having his origin played out, it should be confirmed now that Robin, no matter what (on TT, anyway), is Dick/Richard Grayson.

[King Ruler]

What are you babbling about? We already confirmed it. I was just adding to the fact that Tim is more of a detective than Dick. Why do you always do this?!

[Raven#1]

I was talking to hippie, who probably thought I was talking about Tim...when he put, "No, Tim was never part of BTAS"...

[jaydawg]

Cause he wasnt you idiot. And what the hell do you mean he will soon wear the outfit on TNBA? TNBA was cancelled over 5 years ago. God your stupid. In his final adventure he was still a little kid in the TNBA Robin costume.

[Raven#1]

Yeah. I know. But, when I said he will soon wear it, I was meaning that Dick wore the outfit on B:TAS BEFORE Tim did on TNBA, and I was talking about Dick on my previous post, not Tim.

[jaydawg]

That still doesnt make any sense.

[GL1]

True, there have been Robin comic books in the last few years, but as said this show is based off the Wolfman/Perez era of the Titans, which is the second team that Dick "Robin/Nightwing" Grayson leads. In the comics, Dick was just as driven, if not moreso than Tim, considering Tim didn't want to be a Titan at first (Geoff Johns' "A Kid's Game"). The staff is used by both Slade and Robin, so that doesn't mean anything (they both used staffs in the comics too). Dick has the same detective skills as Tim, considering both were protege's to Bruce "Batman" Wayne. Add to it that Dick wore the same costume that was originally intended for Tim during his last run on B:TAS. And finally, watch episodes like Fractured, Haunted (see Dick's origin), and How Long Is Forever (see Dick become Nightwing), so overall, this TV series Robin is Dick Grayson.

How do I know this? titanstower.com and Glen Murkami say so. While titanstower gives out the information on who Robin is, Glen notes right in the paragraphs that he invisions Robin as Dick Grayson and he told people at the comic con that if anyone wishes to know who Robin is, they could simply watch Fractured.

Is it just me or did you not answer my question?

You did a lot of re-explaining things that we all know. Things you've seen ME post. But you didn't even bother to answer my simple question.

So I will argue with you:

And for the record, Dick has NEVER been as good a dective as Tim... not even CLOSE. Every time Robin uses his non-leadership brain on the show is a reference to Tim Drake.

Dick Grayson is known for Escrima skills. He uses them often, even in Batman year one. Tim Drake is known for staff skills (which are, for the record, nigh impossible with a cape in real life), and uses it as his main weapon, as he has for YEARS. Dick may have used a staff in a fight or two, but Tim uses it ALL the time... every use of a long fighting staff in the comics is a reference to Tim.

Dick was never as driven as Tim. Dick was BROUGHT into Batman's war on crime by chance. Tim DECIDED to become Robin, deciphered Batman's identity, approached Dick and TOLD him that he should be Robin and that Batman needed him. Every use of the obsessive driven Robin is a nod to Tim Drake, not to the jovial acrobat, Dick Grayson.

I don't think I get the costume thing either. It sounds like you're saying that Teen Titan Robin is wearing TNBA Robin's unused clothes, which would be a reference to "Tim Drake" who is really a refrence to Jason Todd. Sorry, I can't keep all that straight, take the point.

Robin on Teen Titans takes the following things from the dick grayson character: origin, name, acrobatics, obsession with slade, love of starfire. EVERYTHING else about the character, costume, personality, role, taskmasterness, drive, Batman-like nature, ability to invent things like Red X, fighting staff, independent nature is taken from Tim Drake... in short... all the reasons I love Tim Drake are the SAME reasons I love Robin on Teen Titans. Sure, his name is Dick Grayson, and he has Dick's relationships, but he's so cool cuz he's just like the guy I read about every month in a little comic book called... surprise surprise... "Robin"

[Rowen]

Is it just me or did you not answer my question?

You did a lot of re-explaining things that we all know. Things you've seen ME post. But you didn't even bother to answer my simple question.

So I will argue with you:

And for the record, Dick has NEVER been as good a dective as Tim... not even CLOSE. Every time Robin uses his non-leadership brain on the show is a reference to Tim Drake.

Dick Grayson is known for Escrima skills. He uses them often, even in Batman year one. Tim Drake is known for staff skills (which are, for the record, nigh impossible with a cape in real life), and uses it as his main weapon, as he has for YEARS. Dick may have used a staff in a fight or two, but Tim uses it ALL the time... every use of a long fighting staff in the comics is a reference to Tim.

Dick was never as driven as Tim. Dick was BROUGHT into Batman's war on crime by chance. Tim DECIDED to become Robin, deciphered Batman's identity, approached Dick and TOLD him that he should be Robin and that Batman needed him. Every use of the obsessive driven Robin is a nod to Tim Drake, not to the jovial acrobat, Dick Grayson.

I don't think I get the costume thing either. It sounds like you're saying that Teen Titan Robin is wearing TNBA Robin's unused clothes, which would be a reference to "Tim Drake" who is really a refrence to Jason Todd. Sorry, I can't keep all that straight, take the point.

Robin on Teen Titans takes the following things from the dick grayson character: origin, name, acrobatics, obsession with slade, love of starfire. EVERYTHING else about the character, costume, personality, role, taskmasterness, drive, Batman-like nature, ability to invent things like Red X, fighting staff, independent nature is taken from Tim Drake... in short... all the reasons I love Tim Drake are the SAME reasons I love Robin on Teen Titans. Sure, his name is Dick Grayson, and he has Dick's relationships, but he's so cool cuz he's just like the guy I read about every month in a little comic book called... surprise surprise... "Robin"

I agree whole heartly with your source of information:up: . i belive the exact same thing. i said all this a while back when me & king ruler had are little debate over robins orgin. yes the robin in the teen titans cartoon show is defiently dick grayson. BUT!!!! he resembles tim drake 10 times more,

from the previous statments you made above. thats why i see robin in teen titans as tim drake not dick grayson, even though i know that robin is dick grayson in the cartoon.

[King Ruler]

Understandable. 'Cause he pretty much is too much like Bats. Dick sure as hell ain't like that, at least not until he becomes Nightwing.

[GL1]

Good Lord, I'm off topic!!!!

I'd love to see Wondgirl in a guest shot on the Teen Titans... just a one-off episode... I personally think it would be great if they did a "Winner Take All Part 2" doing the tournament of heroines and use:
Starfire
Jinx
Raven
Terra (coming back in an "interesting way" right?)
Bumblebee
Wondergirl -- played a bit aggressive and super-feminist
Blackfire
Ravager -- Robin with breasts... (Speedy: Robin with a bow)

I think that'd be the best way to use her without the risk of over-using her...

[jaydawg]

Just wondering....what happened to the pyscho *****?

[hippie_hunter]

I dunno? This board isn't as much fun without him :(

[King Ruler]

Yeah...
You guys think we scared him away? :p

[hippie_hunter]

Yes :(

[King Ruler]

...Quick, let's edit out our messages so he doesn't come back thinking we miss him...:p

[corvus_luna]

on a random note, i think GL1's idea kicks @$$. they should totally have a tournament of heroines. hehe, ravager, robin with boobs, heheh.

[jaydawg]

I havent come to this board in days because he's gone.... I loved terrorizing his ass.....

[corvus_luna]

you children are so evil

[corvus_luna]

for some odd reason i have to respect that, but plz, use that power wisely...

[jaydawg]

Are you trying to become the new Raven? Cause we could deal with that....

[corvus_luna]

i'm not trying to become anyone. i'm just observing that you guys are slightly evil.

[Twisted Shipper]

This thread seems to be rather off topic... So I'll make my part quick so you can get back to your Robin rants again.

I think that it would be nice if they added some new characters, (BART! He's so damn awesome) Terra will probably come back as herself though, unlike Terra 2. If you havn't noticed, the show does not have anything to do with the comics, NOT AT ALL. (Which gives me lots of room to mix things together in fanfics.) And isn't Terra supposed to come back with amnesia? So.. yeah.

[King Ruler]

To tell you the truth, I believe Raven#1's original theory is the most plausible, seeing as how that most likely WILL be the route they are going. His theory was that Madame Rouge will transform into Terra and screw around with Beast Boy's head.

[corvus_luna]

...who's Madam Rouge?

[King Ruler]

A shapeshifter from the comics who is apart of the Brotherhood of Evil.

[phoenixflight]

I have a great image of a Wonder Girl that I think would fit with the Teen Titans, however I am unable to post the image on this site. How do I post an image that is not directly off of the web -- I would really like everyone to see this image!!!

I finally figured out how to upload images - here is the image of Wonder Girl that I think would be great for Teen Titans!!

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2901/cartoonwondergirl3ev.jpg

[BlizzardReturns]

I don't believe the Titans need any new blood. Besides, I think it would bother people who only watch the Cartoon aand don't have any outside info about the Titans. I think It'd be nice if she made an appearence though, much like they did with Aqualad.

[phoenixflight]

Added image of Wonder Girl!!

[King Ruler]

That looks more like a blonde version of Wonder Woman from the JL eppy "A Better World".

[jaydawg]

Which was basically a tribute to her sidekick.

[King Ruler]

...If Raven was here he'd say that that was actually Wonder Woman with blonde hair. :(

[Rowen]

I really miss raven#1's intelligent debating posting,:( i wish you guys didn't run him off. he's the only one who kept the teen titans forum intersting.

[King Ruler]

Intelligent debating? He might've typed it using big words, but everything he posted about was completely bull and unintelligent.

[Rowen]

To you it his post's might be unitelligent & bull, but does it really matter!!! this is what these message boards are for, to present facts, statements, oppionions, debates ect. that is the best part of these messages boards,

for people to debate ones different oppioion, weather the person's oppion is false or true! but constantly trying to correct someone statment when YOU think they are wrong is completelty uncalled for.

& not right IMHO.

[jaydawg]

It not opinions when hes incorrectly using facts.

[King Ruler]

^ Why is it so hard for people to get that?

[cabel]

*starts clapping* Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends....

[King Ruler]

No one's arguing. We're as friendly as can be. Your post really wasn't necessary...

[mongo44]

This is the second Teen Titans thread I can't even get half way through. The topic is suppose to be about Wonder Girl joining. All I see is "this is the version of TT that"...

Stay on topic everyone. This makes threads very confusing for people like myself. If you want to discuss Tera, Comics vs Series, or anything else start a thread with that in the title.

With that said I will hold off my opinion of the topic since apparently that's not what you all want to discuss.

[Rowen]

It not opinions when hes incorrectly using facts.

But thats just my unjustified point!, to you! he is useing incorrect facts, in your mind & in your head your thinking he wasn't using incorrect fatcs. but to other posters like myself i thought he was just meraculously debating.

if me & you have a debate on a subject, your going to try your best to out shine me on how much information you know, to out best my information. not to sit thier & analylize evry little word i say.

its so unconstitutional & unjustified:mad:, as a poster we have our rights to share are belifs & oppionions, even if another poster doesn't agree with him or her. you should know that by now!

we can get this thread back on topic, or we can keep this friendly debating going untill we resolve a solution.

[mongo44]

we can get this thread back on topic, or we can keep this friendly debating going untill we resolve a solution.

Get back on topic or start another thread for debate...:down

[cyrus02pso]

i wonder which wonder girl it would be... and wwhat she would look like

[King Ruler]

Duh, that's easy. It'd be the first one, just like it is the first Kid Flash appearing in Season 5.

[cyrus02pso]

speaking of which, has any one seen a pick of flash?

[King Ruler]

No.

[phoenixflight]

I still feel that Wonder Girl should join the team to add some "new blood" to the group. I found these great images of various Wonder Girls and wanted to share them with everyone. I'm not sure which version should join: Donna Troy or Cassie Sandsmark. I guess it would matter which Robin it is. The Donna Troy version would fit nicely, however Cassie is more recognizable as Wonder Girl these days.

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/2024/ghjiuyhn0ir.jpg

[Red X]

Terra is not comeing back she's dead dead as a doornob dead.

This must have been a while back.

[Red X]

The wondergirl design is quite good.

[DonnaTroy84]

i wonder which wonder girl it would be... and wwhat she would look like

I still feel that Wonder Girl should join the team to add some "new blood" to the group. I'm not sure which version should join: Donna Troy or Cassie Sandsmark. I guess it would matter which Robin it is.

It would most definitely have to be Donna Troy, the original Wonder Girl. The Robin in the cartoon is Dick Grayson, which is proved a number of ways, one of which is the episode mentioned earlier where it is shown that he grows up to be Nightwing. So Donna would have to be the Wonder Girl they use. Also, in the comics, Donna is Wonder Girl at the time when Terra joins the Titans.

I really like the pictures that were added, although the first one could only be Cassie if it were her "Sins of Youth" costume. She only has that outfit for a few days during that story. Otherwise, it's really Donna's costume. Hope i helped! and i hope no one thinks i'm bashing them, i think the pictures and ideas here are great!


--:hq:DT84 :ff: