Catwoman / Selina Kyle thread

[batboy99]

thanks :)

[theShape]

My point is, though, that the basics between Bats and Joker haven't changed. You're talking the other kind of changes, which I acknowledged before. The basics are seemingly there.

1.He is insane, or is he?
2.He drives Batman to the edge.
3.He is chaos, while Batman is order.

These are the same in the comics, in B89 and from what I've seen so far, in TDK. That's what I'm talking about when I say Catwoman has to offer stuff for BB3. Like you say in the next paragraph, themes. And themes should stay similar, as they are the truest connections to the source material, to me.

And btw, the Joker killing Bruce's parents deal, I disagree that it sets a parallel. I believe they put it only for revenge and personal connection (as you mentioned). But no parallels come out of this, imo.



As you said to my point of view, I say "fair enough" to yours. I see what you're saying about how Catwoman's themes need to remain the same, and I agree, but I just don't think that this is the right time for her to come back to a Batman movie. The Joker is back because he's the ****ing Joker, and he will always be synonymous with Batman. But Catwoman is not the same, and should maybe be revisted later.

As for the parallels in '89, they are definitely there. The Joker is responsible for Batman's creation, and Batman is responsible for the Joker's. They produce an equal but opposite reaction to each other, and their connection is their desire for revenge.

[Gianakin_]

Ah, I see the parallel now, thank you.

As far as Catwoman's presence is concerned, I'll put it this way: With Two Face as the main villain, BB3 could go without her. However, as a fan of Nolan's effort, I absolutely want to see how one of the greatest romances I've ever read about would translate on the big screen with Bale's Batman and Catwoman.

[Mr. Socko]

Didn't Cats bring her back to life like in BR in the Catwoman movie?

[GoogleMe94]

Didn't Cats bring her back to life like in BR in the Catwoman movie?


well its kinda ambiguous whether the cats brought selina back or not from BR. but i havent seen Catwoman (or CINO) and dont plan to.

[jmc]

I see no reason why the Cat shouldn't be added if Nolan can make her work.

[Gianakin_]

Didn't Cats bring her back to life like in BR in the Catwoman movie?

Yeah, but we're talking more about the basics of what her inclusion would offer to BB3.

[Mr. Socko]

Certainly yes, there is an entirely different way of doing the character that we've never even seen on screen yet. She had the supernatural motif in BR, basically make her more human for this take. Just do the exact opposite of CINO. As for her inclusion, she offers a great love interest for Bruce as Selina and an awesome villain as Catwoman.

[jmc]

^ How 'bout making her entirely human. :woot:

[theShape]

Catwoman could easily fit into Nolan's world of realism. She works along the lines of the extreme reaction criminals have had after Batman entered the picture, which would explain why she chooses to dress as a cat. But aside from that, I don't think it would that fun to watch.

Plus, I don't think it's the progression of Batman in this series to have Selina Kyle be the new love interest in the next film. He's gonna have a lot on his plate to deal with, after the supposed events of TDK.

[jmc]

^ A love interest to an escalating situation could add drama. And I think there needs to be a better reason for her to wear a cats mask.

[theShape]

^ A love interest to the escalating situation could add drama. And I think there needs to be a better reason for her to wear a cats mask.

We still don't know what the situation with Rachel will be, whether she lives or dies in TDK and what not. It might just not workfor Batman to have another love interest in the next film.

Catwoman is also not an optimal threat for Batman, if you think about it. What would be her motive? Her grand scheme? She works alone, has no power, and is essentially a thief.

[Gianakin_]

Well, that's how she is in the comics as well. Not a clear threat to Bats, only when their interests collide.

Plus, if Rachel lives in BB3, having Bruce being in a dilemma about her or Selina would add more spice to the duality theme.

[jmc]

^ Who says she need be a threat? Her allegiance should be ambiguous, she may dabble on both sides, maybe seeming to help Bats out when in fact she's helping Two Face or vise versa, that adds a sense of unpredictability to the character. Yes she is a thief, a burglar, a con artist, a grifter, but there's no reason she can't be incorporated into the story, perhaps she gets inadvertently caught in the battle between Bats and Two Face.

[elgato]

She comes to Gotham to investigate bats because Sophia Falcone sends her, but finds herself more attracted to him than ever imagined (loosely based on Batman The Long Halloween)

[Majik1387]

No Falcone relationship.:down

[CaptainClown]

cat burglar, there.

[elgato]

:Selina after having some fun (i'm talking about doing bulglaries :grin: )

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/gatochico/selina.png

[bkey]

:Selina after having some fun (i'm talking about doing bulglaries :grin: )

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/gatochico/selina.png

Please Nolan Please. *crosses fingers*

lol

[batboy99]

:Selina after having some fun (i'm talking about doing bulglaries :grin: )

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/gatochico/selina.pngsee,those goggles look so much better than the sunglasses!

[Mr. Socko]

^ Who says she need be a threat? Her allegiance should be ambiguous, she may dabble on both sides, maybe seeming to help Bats out when in fact she's helping Two Face or vise versa, that adds a sense of unpredictability to the character. Yes she is a thief, a burglar, a con artist, a grifter, but there's no reason she can't be incorporated into the story, perhaps she gets inadvertently caught in the battle between Bats and Two Face.


I think that's a good idea. I'd love to see her in scenes with Two Face indicating she's a villain but also scenes where she's talking to Batman about Two Face, almost as if we're unsure exactly which side she's on.

[Watson]

I think that's a good idea. I'd love to see her in scenes with Two Face indicating she's a villain but also scenes where she's talking to Batman about Two Face, almost as if we're unsure exactly which side she's on.

Catwoman needs no allegiance, because the only person that Catwoman looks out for is herself. She'll side with whomever will help her get what she needs. There is a panel in TLH that sums this up perfectly, but unfortuantely I don't have access to it. When Batman see's her at the end with the rest of the villians and asks her what side she is really on, she says "the same side I'm always on". Her side.

That said, I would have no problem with the film exploring a link between her and the mob. I thought that was a good interpretation of the character's motives and added decent depth.

[The Guard]

What does Catwoman potentially bring to the franchise?

What a stupid, stupid question.

What does Rachel bring?

What does Earle bring?

What does anyone bring?

Drama and variety.

All the things you've mentioned were done in Batman Returns.

And a lot of the themes BATMAN BEGINS explored were done in BATMAN, BATMAN RETURNS, BATMAN FOREVER and BATMAN & ROBIN. Or even in BATMAN: THE MOVIE in 67. What's your point?

[deathfromabove]

snap!!!

[regwec]

:Selina after having some fun (i'm talking about doing bulglaries :grin: )

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/gatochico/selina.png
I detect a distinct Adriana Lima influence.

And no, that isn't a casting suggestion, before Majik1387 treats us to one of his informative "ugh no to Adriana :down " posts.

[The Joker_1000]

I won't have any problems with Catwoman being introduced into this franchise as long as she has something important to do rather than her trying to save some alley cats or anything to that extent. If they can make her character more badass & not lame, I'm cool with her being in a few movies.

[Nepenthes]

Yes Catwoman is an ambiguous character; we don't really need to dwell on it it's fairly basic. In the movie I think they should play her as "the grey in batman's black & white world" etc etc because she's in strict opposition to Two-Face's stark duality, right and wrong with no reason, a flip of the coin. Catwoman is the Reasoned Inbetween; she's not rash or delusional like other villains, like Batman she considers EVERYTHING to the decimal point except in the end she chooses, or rather decides that you simply cannot be a good girl all the time.

^ A love interest to an escalating situation could add drama. And I think there needs to be a better reason for her to wear a cats mask.

She's wears a cat mask because she wants to, simple as that. She gets off on it, it's exciting and empowering. Some people don't want to play up the sexual tones in Catwoman and that's fine, but you at least have to admit there's a definite kink factor in Catwomans DNA and to deny that is denying the character. So therefore it should be shown that she LOVES being "Catwoman" for the same reason that some girls like to wear outfits in the bedroom and some guys love being spanked with a paddle, I mean what's the point of that, a paddle? The point is it's FUN I tell you. Catwoman's not just a vanilla down-to-business theif otherwise she'd just be the known as The CatBurglar. She's an extreme personality, but unforunatly as socialite Selina Kyle she has to keep it under wraps. Catwoman is her play time. Simple as that.


I'm still stuck on the whole romantic interest angle. I can't see a way that I personally would like it to work but I understand it's big element in the history and in what people seem to expect. It's an obvious angle and you shouldn't really avoid it. but everytime I think about it on screen it just seems cheesy and derivative. It would definitly be the most boring aspect of Catwoman I think. It would be best if kept extremely under-played, unspoken, unrequited. Let the audience subtly percieve it themselves and have it play in their own mind. We really don't need to see her straddling Batman again and licking his face while he's all "oh noes this is wrong, wot should I doooooo?". Kind of boring. It should be more like attraction interfering with a proffesional relationship.


I detect a distinct Adriana Lima influence.

And no, that isn't a casting suggestion, before Majik1387 treats us to one of his informative "ugh no to Adriana " posts.

ha ha

[Crook]

I'm still stuck on the whole romantic interest angle. I can't see a way that I personally would like it to work but I understand it's big element in the history and in what people seem to expect. It's an obvious angle and you shouldn't really avoid it. but everytime I think about it on screen it just seems cheesy and derivative. It would definitly be the most boring aspect of Catwoman I think.
How exactly is it cheesy? Derivative I could see, but well, ANY love interest angle nowadays, is. Everything's been done with romance on film.

The Batman/Catwoman relationship has always reminded me of the classic love stories in noir films. The hero is extremely attracted to the girl (who ends up being bad), and even though true love is there, they can never be together because of the "side" they're on.

Done multiple times? Yes. Has it been done good just as many? Not in recent times.

[jmc]

She's wears a cat mask because she wants to, simple as that. She gets off on it, it's exciting and empowering. Some people don't want to play up the sexual tones in Catwoman and that's fine, but you at least have to admit there's a definite kink factor in Catwomans DNA and to deny that is denying the character. So therefore it should be shown that she LOVES being "Catwoman" for the same reason that some girls like to wear outfits in the bedroom and some guys love being spanked with a paddle, I mean what's the point of that, a paddle? The point is it's FUN I tell you. Catwoman's not just a vanilla down-to-business theif otherwise she'd just be the known as The CatBurglar. She's an extreme personality, but unforunatly as socialite Selina Kyle she has to keep it under wraps. Catwoman is her play time. Simple as that.


You're under the assumption that Nolan will give us a Catwoman who steals for fun and who does it for the excitement, given his adaption of characters so far it's not unreasonable to believe he'd give us a more serious take on the character with elements of what you described, I just don't see the whole 'playtime' thing working in the context of the Nolan series. As for the mask, I'm simply saying that given the justification given to just about everything in Nolan's series, the character would need a better reason to wear the mask other than 'she simply likes it'. Why does she like it? Is it a good luck charm perhaps similar to what some sports stars might have, ie lucky pair of shoes, equipment, etc? Is it a comfort thing? Perhaps cats are the only thing she really cares for and the mask is more of a security blanket. Has it become a curse? Did she start out wearing it for a laugh that has since become a burden on her? Some avenue would more than likely be explored for this.

[regwec]

That argument seems to suggest that Nolan cannot flesh-out different character types, which more or less suggests that he is a second rate director.

I am more forgiving of him; though I can't stand his feeble approach to The Joker, his concept of the character being an "absolute" of anarchy contrasts entirely with Batman's motivation. This would seem to imply that he would be capable of deducing that much of the draw of Catwoman is her constrasts with Batman, as well as her similarities.

I think that Catwoman works best as someone who uses some of the same methods and gimmicks as Batman for very different ends and very different reasons. She should be the "have a go" villainess where he is the "no choice" hero, in my opinion.

[theShape]

I wouldn't call Nolan's approach to the Joker "feeble" just because it's different.

[regwec]

Nor would I; I call it feeble because I feel that it is.

[theShape]

Nor would I; I call it feeble because I feel that it is.

But I don't see why. I can understand if you said you didn't like what Nolan has done with the character, which you don't, but to call it feeble doesn't seem fair. The characterization of the character is spot on, maybe more so than has ever been seen in a live action interpretation, and though his look and make-up are different, it's not as if Nolan just didn't feel like making him perma-white or copying the look of the comics. Every change he has made to the character has been done for a reason, whether it be creatively or pertaining to the story, and it seems that great effort has been taken to bring the Joker to life in this film.

[jmc]

That argument seems to suggest that Nolan cannot flesh-out different character types, which more or less suggests that he is a second rate director.

He can flesh different characters types out, but they also have to fit with in the context of what he's already written. And I don't know where you got the 'second rate director' thing from. :huh:

[StorminNorman]

That argument seems to suggest that Nolan cannot flesh-out different character types, which more or less suggests that he is a second rate director.

I am more forgiving of him; though I can't stand his feeble approach to The Joker, his concept of the character being an "absolute" of anarchy contrasts entirely with Batman's motivation. This would seem to imply that he would be capable of deducing that much of the draw of Catwoman is her constrasts with Batman, as well as her similarities.

I think that Catwoman works best as someone who uses some of the same methods and gimmicks as Batman for very different ends and very different reasons. She should be the "have a go" villainess where he is the "no choice" hero, in my opinion.

I agree more or less entirely.

[StorminNorman]

He can flesh different characters types out, but they also have to fit with in the context of what he's already written. And I don't know where you got the 'second rate director' thing from. :huh:

He isn't saying Nolan is a Second Rate Director.

Just that if the logic used by a poster was reality - then it would imply he was.

I think Reg is saying he has more respect for Nolan than what the other poster is trying to paint him as.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Nor would I; I call it feeble because I feel that it is.
Feeble is like an elderly woman trying to cross the street with a walker on her own, I dont see how you can describe a directors approach to a character "feeble". The Joker so far in TDK looks pretty badass to me.

[theShape]

Feeble is like an elderly woman trying to cross the street with a walker on her own, I dont see how you can describe a directors approach to a character "feeble". The Joker so far in TDK looks pretty badass to me.

He means "weak".

[regwec]

And would the use of that synonym have really changed the meaning of the sentence?

[theShape]

And would the use of that synonym have really changed the meaning of the sentence?

No, I was just explaining what exactly you said.

[regwec]

Okey-kokey.

[itsthebatman]

How is his approach to the Joker 'feeble'? In what ways do you think the Nolans have misinterpreted and misunderstood the character? Other than the make-up/perma-white thing.

[bkey]

Nor would I; I call it feeble because I feel that it is.

I think you should wait until you see the movie to decide whether or not the interpretation of the Joker is "feeble" or not.



I think if people go into the movie expecting the Joker to be a disappointment, then they will not enjoy it as much. Have an open mind and don't have expectations and I'm sure the character will probably amaze even the staunchest critics.

[regwec]

I will have an open mind, I'm sure I'll enjoy it in its own right, and I will hope to be pleasantly suprised. But we can only comment on what we have seen already and know already, or what we expect see.

[WompuM]

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/vossjz/Picture4.png
I'm sure it's been answered before but who's the blonde girl?

[The Battousai]

I'm sure it's been answered before but who's the blonde girl?

Beatrice Rosen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0742389/)

Basically, she's Bruce's date in that scene - don't know any more than that.

[batman497]

Is anyone else tired of hearing the phrase "Nolan's World"? Every discussion goes into how would this fit into it. Nolan will not do these forever and I ave no problem having another director take up the reigns. How about we just say whether it would work for films in general.

[CaptainClown]

I am tired of hearing realism and nolan in the same sentence when explaining everything.

[Majik1387]

Most people are.

[jmc]

I'm tired of hearing the word permawhite.

[CaptainClown]

there really is no other word for permanent white though.

[jmc]

there really is no other word for permanent white though.

Oh really? :woot: Could just use a real word like bleeched.

[CaptainClown]

pfft thats too long permawhite is super easy permanent white just not as cool.. come on JMC you gotta say whats hip and cool.

[jmc]

Hey, I is down with it, I'm crunkin, hip-hopping, jiving, I'm hitting up my mates on all their myspace / facebook pages, lol dude, whilst getting my own VH1 after party gate crashed by Paris and Lyndsey at the same time my MTV crib is being totally pimped out whilst I download the latest Fall Out Boy and Fergalicious rings tones. I'm totally down with this generation. Peace out homie. :up:

[CaptainClown]

wow I must not be down cause I only got like 20 percent of what you said..

[regwec]

Is anyone else tired of hearing the phrase "Nolan's World"? Every discussion goes into how would this fit into it...I am tired of hearing realism and nolan in the same sentence when explaining everything...Most people are...I'm tired of hearing the word permawhite.

The mantra "teh campy permawhite would not work in the gritty realism of Nolan's world" never fails to make my day.

[batboy99]

im tired of hearing, realism, and stuff like, its not realistic enough
Jeez, its a movie! it doesnt have to be that realistic

[jmc]

You lot can blame Nolan then, he's the one who wanted to make a seemingly plausible Batman series.

[regwec]

Thanks, I do. ;)

[BobJM]

Cause honestly, how "realistic" is a guy flying around in a cape?

If a guy really wanted revenge in today's world, he wouldn't have traveled to Asia to train with a bunch of ninjas. He would have went into the bar that night and shot up Falcone, whether he would get shot himself or not.

[The Battousai]

Cause honestly, how "realistic" is a guy flying around in a cape?

If a guy really wanted revenge in today's world, he wouldn't have traveled to Asia to train with a bunch of ninjas. He would have went into the bar that night and shot up Falcone, whether he would get shot himself or not.

Did you even watch the movie? He didn't go to Asia for revenge.

[batboy99]

he didnt say that ,he said he went there to trian with the ninjas

[The Battousai]

he didnt say that ,he said he went there to trian with the ninjas

Read his second line again.

[DieSmiling]

Obviously if you don't like Nolan's films or the idea of a more grounded Batman series you're going to be annoyed by hearing people defend ideas you don't like by using the term "realistic" but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Based on his presentations of characters so far, it's clear that he would or wouldn't include certain characters based on whether they'd fit with what he's done and what he wants to do.

[The Joker_1000]

Yeah, his universe eliminates villains such as Clayface & the Penguin (thank God, I don't really like that character) but with the villains he is going to use in future installments, I look forward to seeing every film that Nolan intends to make for this franchise.

[Marx]

Yeah, his universe eliminates villains such as Clayface & the Penguin (thank God, I don't really like that character) but with the villains he is going to use in future installments, I look forward to seeing every film that Nolan intends to make for this franchise.

I'm hoping for several more films. They just really need to avoid the mistakes of previous films.

[Mr. Socko]

Yeah, his universe eliminates villains such as Clayface & the Penguin (thank God, I don't really like that character) but with the villains he is going to use in future installments, I look forward to seeing every film that Nolan intends to make for this franchise.


How is Penguin eliminated. Not realistic enough?:huh:

Those who say that must only know of Burton's mutant sewer Penguin.

Look no further than TNBA if you want to know how the character is usually portrayed.

[Marx]

How is The Penguin not realistic enough?

[Sunburned Hand]

[QUOTE=Mr. Socko;14149446]How is Penguin eliminated. Not realistic enough?:huh:

Yeah, during all the speculation as to whether Philip Seymour Hoffman would play The Penguin, Nolan was quoted somewhere as saying he 'didn't really think [Penguin] would fit into the world of these films', though I'm paraphrasing. Always found this a bit strange, as I would've thought Penguin could be quite easily adapted in these films. Short, fat, well dressed man...

I imagine Nolan was thinking in terms of Penguin's more exaggerated deformities, the flipper hands, extremely long nose and pointy teeth as being 'unrealistic.' Though I do think these could be toned down.

[TLH]

^I never understood that either. If anything he'd be easy to pull off, especially in Nolan's down-to-earth rendition of Batman's world. Maybe he just doesn't like the character.

[batboy99]

maybe nolan only knows Penguin from BR maybe?

[Marx]

maybe nolan only knows Penguin from BR maybe?

I hope not!

[Venom 1988]

Yea my guess is that Nolan is only familiar with Burton's version of Penguin.

[Reflectionist]

Not that there's anything wrong with Burton's Penguin, I thought him to be a very very interesting take on the character, and perfectly suited to the world in which he was created.

[Sunburned Hand]

maybe nolan only knows Penguin from BR maybe?

Probably not, I imagine it might be because he thinks the Penguin doesn't offer a particularly strong or dramatic enough line of characterization to warrant a place in his films. He simply doesn't offer the same scope as the Joker, Two-Face or even Catwoman. Even if he was to make an appearance, he would be at best a bit part villain - a small time arms dealer, underworld informant or nightclub owner.

[Matchbox]

Based on his presentations of characters so far, it's clear that he would or wouldn't include certain characters based on whether they'd fit with what he's done and what he wants to do.

I agree. That same thing could be said for many directors. They all have their own stlyes and so they embrace/reject certain elements according to that style.

[The Joker_1000]

I'm hoping for several more films. They just really need to avoid the mistakes of previous films.


I don't think there will be several films unless they intend to go the route of Batman Beyond.

[The Joker_1000]

How is Penguin eliminated. Not realistic enough?:huh:

Those who say that must only know of Burton's mutant sewer Penguin.

Look no further than TNBA if you want to know how the character is usually portrayed.


I just don't really like the character of the Penguin but if he were portrayed more similarly to the Penguin from TNBA, that'd be cool but of course you know he definitely doesn't need to be a major villain. I'd rather we see someone like Killer Croc, Clayface, or the Riddler be a main villain in this franchise.

[Marx]

I don't think there will be several films unless they intend to go the route of Batman Beyond.

I don't know, I definately think they have enough characters to go with a few more. If they wanted to.

[jmc]

Nolan most likely won't do any more after 3 films and I'm doubtful WB will try and get some else for fear of screwing up again.

[David Rice]

Nolan most likely won't do any more after 3 films and I'm doubtful WB will try and get some else for fear of screwing up again.

It's Hollywood and this is the WB. If there is money is to be made they can and will get someone else to do more films after Nolan leaves.

[jmc]

For a different Batman series yes, as a continuation of the current one, no.

[Mr. Socko]

I wouldn't want anyone else besides Nolan continuing Nolan's universe in the first place.

[The Joker_1000]

If they drop Nolan, then they mine as well start all over, AGAIN. I seriously doubt Warner Bros. would do something as foolish as that, though, because Nolan has the best live action interpretation of Batman yet (in my opinion).

[Gianakin_]

I'd like them to go the Burton/Schumacher route:
Reimagine the franchise, but keep them as sequels to the Nolan trilogy, even if they have to be vague.
No need to get a new origin every 10 years.

[Laderlappen]

They probably start doing other superhero movies before they start doing Batman movies again.

[The Guard]

Probably not, I imagine it might be because he thinks the Penguin doesn't offer a particularly strong or dramatic enough line of characterization to warrant a place in his films. He simply doesn't offer the same scope as the Joker, Two-Face or even Catwoman. Even if he was to make an appearance, he would be at best a bit part villain - a small time arms dealer, underworld informant or nightclub owner.

Maybe as a main character, or a lead villain, but as a character in the movie, period? I don't buy it. Nolan put Falcone in the movie, and he was fairly uninteresting and "stock", but he still put him in there. That could have easily been The Penguin, and Cobblepot could easily have a small role in a future film.

[jmc]

I'd like them to go the Burton/Schumacher route:
Reimagine the franchise, but keep them as sequels to the Nolan trilogy, even if they have to be vague.
No need to get a new origin every 10 years.

Yeah, coz it worked so well the last time they did it.

[The Joker_1000]

They need to keep Nolan, no new directors, no new actors every other movie. Let Nolan finish his franchise & whenever a new franchise is started, we won't need to see an origin story because we already got one in Batman Begins.

[regwec]

Well, it failed last time for all sorts of reasons, but I don't think making the sequels with a different style is necessarily a bad idea.

[Majik1387]

Yeah, coz it worked so well the last time they did it.

lol You know that's not the reason the last time didn't work so well.:oldrazz:

[The Joker_1000]

Well, it failed last time for all sorts of reasons, but I don't think making the sequels with a different style is necessarily a bad idea.

So, are you saying they should actually let someone finish Nolan's franchise? No one portrays Nolan's universe better than Nolan himself & he needs to do every movie of this franchise.

[Majik1387]

Nolan, like all directors, may get tired of doing so many Batman movies, while we the audience want more. Simple solution is to get another director to continue making the movies. It isn't Nolan's franchise, it's Batman's.:whatever:

[The Joker_1000]

Dude, when he's tired of making movies, he should end the franchise. Another director means a new cast & then we'll end up with another Batman movie like "Batman & Robin".

[Majik1387]

That's not true.
And Nolan doesn't have the power to end the franchise, because it's not his.

[lixdexia]

For a different Batman series yes, as a continuation of the current one, no.
they could just leave it open to intepretation. not say weither it is or isn't a dirrect sequal and just tell whatever story it wants to tell.

[Gianakin_]

So, are you saying they should actually let someone finish Nolan's franchise? No one portrays Nolan's universe better than Nolan himself & he needs to do every movie of this franchise.

Let him finish his story arc. Then they can pick up from that point. Sorta like what I hope will happen to the Spidey franchise. Change key players, acknowledge the previous films enough so as not to contradict them.

[Gianakin_]

Yeah, coz it worked so well the last time they did it.

So? The idea itself is very practical and imaginative. One storyline with different interpretations every one, two or (better) three films. Sorta like the comics.

[The Joker_1000]

I don't want anything like that to happen, I want Nolan to do at least four movies & finish his franchise & then whoever has another vision can do their own franchise.

[Majik1387]

It's not Nolan's franchise.

[jmc]

So? The idea itself is very practical and imaginative. One storyline with different interpretations every one, two or (better) three films. Sorta like the comics.

This isn't a comic.

[Gianakin_]

I don't want anything like that to happen, I want Nolan to do at least four movies & finish his franchise & then whoever has another vision can do their own franchise.

So you want a repetition/reinterpretation of the origin story every 2-4 films?

[lixdexia]

This isn't comic.
but it could be:woot:

[The Joker_1000]

This isn't a comic.

QFFT

[Gianakin_]

This isn't a comic.

Hence the "sorta".

[jmc]

So you want a repetition/reinterpretation of the origin story every 2-4 films?

Who says you need an origin story??

[Gianakin_]

Who says you need an origin story??

Nobody, but it would make sense (to me, at least) to establish Batman whenever you get a reboot, or else things could get messy. A different interpretation could warrant an origin that accompanies it and not just show a generic scene of the Waynes being murdered.

[Mr. Socko]

So, are you saying they should actually let someone finish Nolan's franchise? No one portrays Nolan's universe better than Nolan himself & he needs to do every movie of this franchise.

Nolan, like all directors, may get tired of doing so many Batman movies, while we the audience want more. Simple solution is to get another director to continue making the movies. It isn't Nolan's franchise, it's Batman's.:whatever:
Thank you.

Let him finish his story arc. Then they can pick up from that point. Sorta like what I hope will happen to the Spidey franchise. Change key players, acknowledge the previous films enough so as not to contradict them.

I agree.

[The Joker_1000]

Nobody, but it would make sense (to me, at least) to establish Batman whenever you get a reboot, or else things could get messy. A different interpretation could warrant an origin that accompanies it and not just show a generic scene of the Waynes being murdered.

If we get a reboot after Nolan is done with his universe/franchise, then I want to see something totally new as far as his origins go. I want to see different villains, a different type of Gotham, etc.

[jmc]

Nobody, but it would make sense (to me, at least) to establish Batman whenever you get a reboot, or else things could get messy. A different interpretation could warrant an origin that accompanies it and not just show a generic scene of the Waynes being murdered.

Worked all right for Batman '89, that wasn't an origin story, he was already established as Batman from the opening scene, his origins were barely hinted at.

[Mr. Socko]

I don't want anything like that to happen, I want Nolan to do at least four movies & finish his franchise & then whoever has another vision can do their own franchise.

The word you are looking for would be story arc or series, certainly not franchise. The franchise is a license as a whole, there has only been, and will ever only be, one Batman franchise. It covers everything Batman related from Bob Kane's original comics to the Adam West show to Nolan's work and everything in between.

But I do like your idea. After a trilogy or so, a new director should interpret Batman with their own arc, or series. It could either be in vague continuity with each other like the actual comic books, or a restart each time(of'course leaving out the origin).

[Gianakin_]

Worked all right for Batman '89, that wasn't an origin story, he was already established as Batman from the opening scene, his origins were barely hinted at.

That's absolutely true.

However, 16 years later, considerable audience portions mistook BB as a prequel to B89, since it was an origin story and figured it complimented B89, which had none.

[Marx]

I think the "origin" story has officially been beaten into a dead horse. It doesn't need to be done again. It was done the way it needed to be done in BB.

[Gianakin_]

If we get a reboot after Nolan is done with his universe/franchise, then I want to see something totally new as far as his origins go. I want to see different villains, a different type of Gotham, etc.

See, that's my problem right there. After the new director has finished with his version, then you'd ask for another reboot, right? Thus a new origin. I don't want 10 different versions of the origin.

[The Joker_1000]

The word you are looking for would be story arc or series, certainly not franchise. The franchise is a license as a whole, there has only been, and will ever only be, one Batman franchise. It covers everything Batman related from Bob Kane's original comics to the Adam West show to Nolan's work and everything in between.

But I do like your idea. After a trilogy or so, a new director should interpret Batman with their own arc, or series. It could either be in vague continuity with each other like the actual comic books, or a restart each time(of'course leaving out the origin).


Yeah, I love to see different visions on superheroes/villains but I want everyone to direct their own series of movies & not pick up where someone else left off.

[jmc]

Personally, when Nolan's series is over, I'd love to see a vintage Batman movie, one set in like the 1930's and given that sort of Film Noir look, something different like that would be interesting, not sure how many people would go for it though.

[The Joker_1000]

Personally, when Nolan's series is over, I'd love to see a vintage Batman movie, one set in like the 1930's and given that sort of Film Noir look, something different like that would be interesting, not sure how many people would go for it though.

I wouldn't go for any Batman movie past the year of 2000 that's set back in the 1930's.

[jmc]

I wouldn't go for any Batman movie past the year of 2000 that's set back in the 1930's.

Why?

[The Joker_1000]

Why?

It sounds lame.

[regwec]

^^
I would like that a lot. But it would have to have certain technological anachronisms in order to play the narrative to Batman's best strengths...and then you have Batman '89 again. :)

[jmc]

Ok, I just feel that not every superhero film need be set in the present day and that a vintage film would be an interesting change with new possibilities.

[The Joker_1000]

^^
I would like that a lot. But it would have to have certain technological anachronisms in order to play the narrative to Batman's best strengths...and then you have Batman '89 again. :)


I want to see Batman Beyond adapted into a live action movie, specifically the origins of the new Batman & "BB: ROTJ".

[gwynplaine]

Ok, I just feel that not every superhero film need be set in the present day and that a vintage film would be an interesting change with new possibilities.
Cool idea. What might be interesting too is if it was done with the latest greenscreen/mocap technology. That way you could mess with the black and white or sepia and give it a more modern feel a la Sin City or 300.
Also with Mocap, Conrad Veidt could play the Joker and Clark Gable or Errol Flynn the Batman. I would pay to see that:yay: . But maybe that's just me (I just love old movies). Oh and back on topic, Louise Brooks or Garbo could be Catwoman.

[regwec]

Errol Flynn the Batman.
I wouldn't go for a Batman who was always flopping his penis out and ****ing 15 year old girls. ;)

[gwynplaine]

I wouldn't go for a Batman who was always flopping his penis out and ****ing 15 year old girls. ;)
Well, apparently Picasso was a big a**hole too, but I can still enjoy his paintings. And I won't even talk about Chaplin or Kubrick, 2 of my favourite directors.

[Mr. Socko]

Cool idea. What might be interesting too is if it was done with the latest greenscreen/mocap technology. That way you could mess with the black and white or sepia and give it a more modern feel a la Sin City or 300.
Also with Mocap, Conrad Veidt could play the Joker and Clark Gable or Errol Flynn the Batman. I would pay to see that:yay: . But maybe that's just me (I just love old movies). Oh and back on topic, Louise Brooks or Garbo could be Catwoman.

I certainly wouldn't want the movie to be mocap. If there's one man who could handle the job of a 1940s Conrad like Joker it would be Hugo Weaving.

[gwynplaine]

I certainly wouldn't want the movie to be mocap. If there's one man who could handle the job of a 1940s Conrad like Joker it would be Hugo Weaving.
Good idea.

[theShape]

The truth is that Batman will be with us forever, and for as long as we live, we'll see different interpretations of the character in live action form. After Nolan's Batman series is over, there will eventually be another. I'm willing to bet that within 20 years we get to see another Batman/Joker showdown on the big screen.

These characters are timeless. Their origins can be tweaked and their appearances will be modified, but they're here to stay, one way or another.

[gwynplaine]

I wouldn't go for a Batman who was always flopping his penis out and ****ing 15 year old girls. ;)
Unless it was directed by Roman polanski of course:woot: .

[Nepenthes]

we've already had a period Batman movie - Batman 89.

I expect the next trilogy can go three ways: Robin-centric, Batman Beyond, or a revert back to a humourous, outrageous, campy hyper-action slash comedy. But don't think of Adam West or Michael Schumacher, this eras modern equivalent is All-Star Batman. Think ASBR meets Kill Bill meets Sin City. Just an option, it may not be what fans want but it could go down well with general audiences if the timing is right.

and to think Orson Wells almost made a Batman movie :wow: :cwink:

[gwynplaine]

we've already had a period Batman movie - Batman 89.

I expect the next trilogy can go three ways: Robin-centric, Batman Beyond, or a revert to a humourous outrageous, campy hyper-action slash comedy. But don't think of Adam West or Michael Schumacher, this eras modern equivalent is All-Star Batman. Think ASBR meets Kill Bill meets Sin City. Just an option, it may not be what fans want but it could go down well with general audiences if the timing is right.

and to think Orson Wells almost made a Batman movie :wow: :cwink:
And to think Fellini almost made a "Mandrake the magician" movie with Marcello Mastroianni.

[Sandouras]

we've already had a period Batman movie - Batman 89.

I expect the next trilogy can go three ways: Robin-centric, Batman Beyond, or a revert back to a humourous, outrageous, campy hyper-action slash comedy. But don't think of Adam West or Michael Schumacher, this eras modern equivalent is All-Star Batman. Think ASBR meets Kill Bill meets Sin City. Just an option, it may not be what fans want but it could go down well with general audiences if the timing is right.

and to think Orson Wells almost made a Batman movie :wow: :cwink:LOL, WUT? LAWL! :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:

[Nepenthes]

aaaah, yeah, my bad :O. sorry Michael ha ha

[jmc]

we've already had a period Batman movie - Batman 89.

That's not a proper period Batman movie. Have one set in the actual 1930's, with 30's technology, costume, design etc. Batman 89 had elements of period movie to it but was set in the then modern times.

[flashgordon]

I dont know but Im not really thrilled with the idea of Selina Kyle-Catwoman in Nolan's universe. As a woman she is everything I find worst as a character. I dont root for Batman to fall for someone like her nor I wonna be like Catwoman especially my daughter's role model. Heavens no.

[Crook]

Heaven forbid a starring female role not requiring role model traits...

[Nepenthes]

In a perfect world Catwoman should be a role model. I hate what Sex & the City and the diluge of putrid rom-coms and girl talk shows have to done to our women.


That's not a proper period Batman movie. Have one set in the actual 1930's, with 30's technology, costume, design etc. Batman 89 had elements of period movie to it but was set in the then modern times.

yeah, it would be nice, but not worth the effort and a waste of oppotunity to do something more different imo. To general audiences in the end it would still seem very similair to '89, maybe like a poorer cousin or a rehash without the surreal deco design and the cool car etc. Burtons movies had the best of what a period piece would have to offer, the look and feel were deco, the tech was low-key and unobtrusive (apart from the car) unlike later films with the brain zappers, ice guns and microwave emitters. I just think if you're making a HUGE set of movies once every two decades it's best to make them as distinctive and as fresh as possible. A straight-up 1930's setting would work better in a cheaper TV series or something. And of course, he fights Nazi's. that would be the one cool thing a non-period piece cannot do.

[gwynplaine]

yeah, it would be nice, but not worth the effort imo and a waste of oppotunity to do something more different. In the end it would still seem very similair to '89, maybe like a poorer cousin or a rehash imo. To mainstream audiences it could just seem like Burton without the surreal deco design and the cool car etc. Burtons movies had the best of what a period piece could have to offer. The look and feel were deco, the tech was low-key and unobtrusive (apart from the car) unlike later films with the brain zappers, ice guns and microwave emitters. I just think if you're making a HUGE set of movie once every two decades it's best to make them as distinctive and as fresh as possible. A straight-up 1930's setting would work better in a cheaper TV series or something.
Yeah but a 1930's "Conrad Veidt/Peter Lorre/ Lon Chaney" Joker would be beautifully creepy. Like something directed by Todd Browning.

[David Rice]

For a different Batman series yes, as a continuation of the current one, no.

You're pretty sure of your ideas huh? I'm willing to bet that they would.

[jmc]

yeah, it would be nice, but not worth the effort and a waste of oppotunity to do something more different imo. To general audiences in the end it would still seem very similair to '89, maybe like a poorer cousin or a rehash without the surreal deco design and the cool car etc. Burtons movies had the best of what a period piece would have to offer, the look and feel were deco, the tech was low-key and unobtrusive (apart from the car) unlike later films with the brain zappers, ice guns and microwave emitters. I just think if you're making a HUGE set of movies once every two decades it's best to make them as distinctive and as fresh as possible. A straight-up 1930's setting would work better in a cheaper TV series or something. And of course, he fights Nazi's. that would be the one cool thing a non-period piece cannot do.

How is setting a Batman film in the 1930's not different? What isn't fresh about it? Setting it in that time frame could really give it that sort of noir / golden age of cinema look, a new and unique look, no rubber suits, no hi tech gadgets, no tumbler, there is potential to showcase Batman in a way that's hasn't been seen before.

And to those saying Catwoman needs to be a role model, get over it, the girl is screwed up, she's a thief and a con artist, she isn't a role model, you want female role models for your daughters, look towards family and not comic characters.

[Ledlunar]

All Star Batman is awful...... I hope they get a great director who is a fan of Nolans to continue it in the similar style... I prefer Begins as the ultimate Batman origin story... Dont make it Sin City Style, save it for a Sin City... I say just end them after the third unless Nolan and the rest want to do one more for some reason... but I think 3 would be good.... Id rather DC invest in making TLH and Dark Victory into animated movies with every single scene in motion in Tim Sales art style for all those Lame people who wont read it cause its a comic book, Its for the qworld to see... I wouldnt want to see Mr Freeze ever again in a movie or posion Ivy Or bane.... JUST DO 3 NOLAN

[Sandouras]

Okay, so i know who catwoman is and stuff but i have questions.

-Why is she one of the most important, if not the most important woman to bruce? I mean, there's zatanna, talia.....even WonderWoman who had a relationship with him!
-Whats so fascinating about this cutthroat *****? Send her to House to teach her a lesson! :funny: Seriously, i would break my one rule on her head!


I guess the first answer would also answer the question: why not use another female as a pivoting character in bruce's life? No ordinary woman of course, but a superheroine. Zatanna perhaps. She could fit into nolan's vision whereas WW could not. Maybe even a version of Black Canary, but then Green Arrow fans would organise mass suicides in city squares!

[David Rice]

Okay, so i know who catwoman is and stuff but i have questions.

-Why is she one of the most important, if not the most important woman to bruce? I mean, there's zatanna, talia.....even WonderWoman who had a relationship with him!
-Whats so fascinating about this cutthroat *****? Send her to House to teach her a lesson! :funny: Seriously, i would break my one rule on her head!


I guess the first answer would also answer the question: why not use another female as a pivoting character in bruce's life? No ordinary woman of course, but a superheroine. Zatanna perhaps. She could fit into nolan's vision whereas WW could not. Maybe even a version of Black Canary, but then Green Arrow fans would organise mass suicides in city squares!

It's because Bruce and Selina are the same, a light and a dark side. That is way he loves her, she understands him better then any other woman. The cat suit helps out too!

And Zatanna could not fit into nolan's vision.

[Crook]

Why Selina? Because she's damn perfect for Bruce. Even the second-best love interest for Bruce, Talia, can't come close to the relationship the former hold.

The most intriguing aspect (that BR captured perfectly), is the lust of two very unadjusted and broken individuals. They complement each other to the 'T', and it's almost poetic how Batman has the love of his life in his grasp, but will NEVER be with her in the end.

[Sandouras]

It's because Bruce and Selina are the same, a light and a dark side. That is way he loves her, she understands him better then any other woman. The cat suit helps out too!

And Zatanna could not fit into nolan's vision.Nolan and his constupated vision are getting on my nerves lately.

[Sandouras]

Why Selina? Because she's damn perfect for Bruce. Even the second-best love interest for Bruce, Talia, can't come close to the relationship the former hold.

The most intriguing aspect (that BR captured perfectly), is the lust of two very unadjusted and broken individuals. They complement each other to the 'T', and it's almost poetic how Batman has the love of his life in his grasp, but will NEVER be with her in the end.
in BR its because she is bats*** crazy ("cant live with myself"). In the comics its more got to do with his being obsessively batman and having no time for much else.

I always have that S&M, sad, crazy, depressing incarnation of her in BR in mind. If that is what is coming in the third nolan sequel i d rather not have her in.

[David Rice]

Nolan and his constupated vision are getting on my nerves lately.

Ok... don't go see his films then. :csad:

[David Rice]

in BR its because she is bats*** crazy ("cant live with myself"). In the comics its more got to do with his being obsessively batman and having no time for much else.

I have to disagree. Crook is right on the money and that is not why she loves him in the comics. Maybe at first, but not now.

[Crook]

in BR its because she is bats*** crazy ("cant live with myself"). In the comics its more got to do with his being obsessively batman and having no time for much else.

I always have that S&M, sad, crazy, depressing incarnation of her in BR in mind. If that is what is coming in the third nolan sequel i d rather not have her in.
BR just took some foundations from the comic lore and exaggerated it's psychological themes. I felt it added more to Catwoman.

Of course, this time around she doesn't have to be that crazy, but some depth on an equal, but different level is imperative.

[Sandouras]

Ok... don't go see his films then. :csad:I am just whining that it limits so many things.
I have to disagree. Crook is right on the money and that is not why she loves him in the comics. Maybe at first, but not now.We re talking about why they cant be together not why she loves him.

So, who else has been Bruce's love interest over the years?

[Mr. Socko]

Nolan and his constupated vision are getting on my nerves lately.

Oh Noez! He vision is becuming tainted liek teh Goth with big hair and teh Shoemakker!

[David Rice]

I am just whining that it limits so many things. We re talking about why they cant be together not why she loves him.

So, who else has been Bruce's love interest over the years?

Oh... gotcha!

Who hasn't been a love interest over the years? Bruce is an man whore! :woot:

He even messed around with Ivy.

[Sandouras]

Only Harley has been out of reach for him, clearly because she is crazy.

So anyway, i dont like catwoman so i'd like something else. A burger maybe. Lol. Its just that she is a bit** and because it will be too similar to Burton's. Their romance always involves kissing on rooftops, her betraying him and such. So Nolan would have to do that and unavoidably do burton's thing all over again. Maybe a version of black canary or a realistic Zatanna, or, if Nolan decides to open things up, have Zatanna do tricks on stage that batman already knows the answer to, since they are just tricks, but then she does real magic when she fights crime. Something that noone will explain.

Wait wait wait....that would drive nolan insane!

[Crook]

Nolan's risk is no more greater with Selina, than it is with Joker.

In fact, I'd say it's even lower, since I don't think he has the capability of going as in-depth with the relationship as Burton has. :o

[Sandouras]

Nolan's risk is no more greater with Selina, than it is with Joker.

In fact, I'd say it's even lower, since I don't think he has the capability of going as in-depth with the relationship as Burton has. :ohow do you figure that?

[Crook]

Have you taken a look at any of the romanticism found in Nolan's movies?

[Sandouras]

Have you taken a look at any of the romanticism found in Nolan's movies?There isnt any....i think. But he hadnt done a superhero movie before BB and look what he did. I dont think this is the right criteria.
And besides, besides the catwoman romance, which lets face it, isnt for the oscars, what other romance has burton done?

Lol, besides besides besides.

[Marx]

There isnt any....i think. But he hadnt done a superhero movie before BB and look what he did. I dont think this is the right criteria.
And besides, besides the catwoman romance, which lets face it, isnt for the oscars, what other romance has burton done?

Lol, besides besides besides.

Edward Scissorhands...Sleepy Hollow...Sweeney Todd...

[jmc]

Romance has never been the real focal point of his films though so it's a little hard to say whether he's capable of going in depth with a Bat/Cat relationship. Also depends on whether he'd go for a Bat/Cat relationship or simple use elements of it.

[Crook]

There isnt any....i think. But he hadnt done a superhero movie before BB and look what he did. I dont think this is the right criteria.
Wasn't about it being a superhero movie. The themes and direction he took with BB, wasn't extravagantly different from his usual approach to his films.

And besides, besides the catwoman romance, which lets face it, isnt for the oscars, what other romance has burton done?

Ed Wood and especially Edward Scissorhands contained elements of romance. One thing Burton excels at is creating some moving characters with a lot of heart.

[jmc]

Edward Scissorhands...Sleepy Hollow...Sweeney Todd...

You forgot Planet of the Apes. :woot:

[Marx]

You forgot Planet of the Apes. :woot:

You're right. AND Planet of the Apes. :yay: Burton has done quite a few. (And very well done...I might add.)

[Sandouras]

Edward Scissorhands...Sleepy Hollow...Sweeney Todd...sleepy hollow....medium. Sweeney i havent seen it.

Anyway, i am just saying, nolan has the good quality of delivering new and refreshing ideas. I hope that if he does use catwoman (which i suppose is why this thread exists) he does something new with her.

I suppose noone has found other important love interests of Bruce's? I remember there was a scene in Beyond where he was looking at old photos of his with various women and losing himself in memories, when suddenly Talia enters the cave offering to lazarus pit him and make him young again. I am sure there was Selina, vicky, zatanna and maybe one or two more. It would be great if i could remember.

[jmc]

Anyway, i am just saying, nolan has the good quality of delivering new and refreshing ideas. I hope that if he does use catwoman (which i suppose is why this thread exists) he does something new with her.

I'm certain we would get a new and different Catwoman if he were to use the character.

[Crook]

Anyway, i am just saying, nolan has the good quality of delivering new and refreshing ideas. I hope that if he does use catwoman (which i suppose is why this thread exists) he does something new with her.
Maybe he could do a pretty good interpretation of Selina. I'm sure he could. But like I said, it's the romance angle I'm skeptical about. Nolan just isn't fit for that type of writing.

I suppose noone has found other important love interests of Bruce's? I remember there was a scene in Beyond where he was looking at old photos of his with various women and losing himself in memories, when suddenly Talia enters the cave offering to lazarus pit him and make him young again. I am sure there was Selina, vicky, zatanna and maybe one or two more. It would be great if i could remember.
Barbara was the only other one.

[Marx]

sleepy hollow....medium. Sweeney i havent seen it.

Anyway, i am just saying, nolan has the good quality of delivering new and refreshing ideas. I hope that if he does use catwoman (which i suppose is why this thread exists) he does something new with her.

I suppose noone has found other important love interests of Bruce's? I remember there was a scene in Beyond where he was looking at old photos of his with various women and losing himself in memories, when suddenly Talia enters the cave offering to lazarus pit him and make him young again. I am sure there was Selina, vicky, zatanna and maybe one or two more. It would be great if i could remember.

I would HIGHLY recommend seeing "Sweeney Todd."

[Sandouras]

I'm certain we would get a new and different Catwoman if he were to use the character.
And i am sure we would have a permawhite type of thread about her. Maybe permacat? Lol

Maybe he could do a pretty good interpretation of Selina. I'm sure he could. But like I said, it's the romance angle I'm skeptical about. Nolan just isn't fit for that type of writing.


Barbara was the only other one.Oh yeah, barbara. I liked that one! It wont happen in this case of course. Gordons kids are still too young.

Lol, imagine:
- I never said thank you!
- You already have!

[jmc]

And i am sure we would have a permawhite type of thread about her. Maybe permacat? Lol

I get the feeling it would be more costume related. :woot:

[The Joker_1000]

And i am sure we would have a permawhite type of thread about her. Maybe permacat? Lol

Oh yeah, barbara. I liked that one! It wont happen in this case of course. Gordons kids are still too young.

Lol, imagine:
- I never said thank you!
- You already have!

If we do get Batgirl, I won't expect to see her at least until the fourth movie when some years have passed by for her to age. Hopefully we will get both Batgirl & Robin. I'm waiting for us to get a Batgirl portrayed correctly.

[Nepenthes]

Maybe he could do a pretty good interpretation of Selina. I'm sure he could. But like I said, it's the romance angle I'm skeptical about. Nolan just isn't fit for that type of writing.

I see what you mean.....and it's probably a good thing imo. Personally I'm not so much into the romance aspect with Bruce and Selina in a movie again, but yeah it should definitly be acknowldged. Underplayed, unspoken and unrequited would be best.

Anyway on Nolan I thought he handled the relationships in The Prestige pretty well - without making it overly corny or sacharine. Algier and his wife were believable, especially the impact of her death; Bordens wife living with two men; Scarlet's short yet credibile relationship with Algier, born of greif, and the way she maintained her dignity and composure while being mixed up in absurd rivalry....that was all pretty good. It was just enough to feel what needed to be felt without bogging down the story.

[theShape]

Who's to say that Nolan isn't fit to make a good romance, when he's never really had the chance to do it before? The romance in Begins doesn't count, as it was not a full on romance. It was like..."we're friends...but I love you...I'm Batman...we can't be together".

[Crook]

Because his style of writing just does not call for it. And the stories he has done that did contain romance (Prestige and BB), were either non-existent or plain sucked.

Nolan's shining point is delving into psychologically troubled loners.

[David Rice]

Only Harley has been out of reach for him, clearly because she is crazy.

So anyway, i dont like catwoman so i'd like something else. A burger maybe. Lol. Its just that she is a bit** and because it will be too similar to Burton's. Their romance always involves kissing on rooftops, her betraying him and such. So Nolan would have to do that and unavoidably do burton's thing all over again. Maybe a version of black canary or a realistic Zatanna, or, if Nolan decides to open things up, have Zatanna do tricks on stage that batman already knows the answer to, since they are just tricks, but then she does real magic when she fights crime. Something that noone will explain.

Wait wait wait....that would drive nolan insane!

Why don't you like her? Nolan's Catwoman would be very different from Burtons.

[Sandouras]

Why don't you like her? Nolan's Catwoman would be very different from Burtons.I quite liked the BTAS version, or the Dark Victory version. But i cant stand the masochist-suited, crazy, f*** up, depressing, soar, Pfeiffer catwoman. I never liked Pfeiffer as a woman, more so as catwoman. Maybe it fits the character, but i just find her face....salty.....if you get what i mean...
BR really screwd catwoman for me. But after all, she is always a manipulative b***. Only in Dark Victory (at least in the comics that i've read) do we see her as vulnerable and not as manipulative. Maybe if she is reworked, i could like her. But having a second mask in town, in Nolan's town....dunno. I am not nolan, but i would like something more realistic to go with his world. Maybe he chooses PowerGirl (teol), you can never know, but if i could choose i would go for someone looking and dressed like Canary. She would be a fighter and could stand on her own against thugs. And without wearing a mask she conceals her identity. Maybe with glasses (teol again):word:.


So, is catwoman going to be in the sequel or is it just fans wishing for it?

[jmc]

Just fan speculation, and fans are the ones Nolan shouldn't be listening too, we don't need another Raimi / Spiderman 3 style situation.

[Crook]

But having a second mask in town, in Nolan's town....dunno. I am not nolan, but i would like something more realistic to go with his world.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not completely against that type of mentality, these last couple of days? :huh:

As for a second mask in town....well that's the point. Batman was the catalyst for all these costumed looneys to come out of the woodworks. He's made Gotham a freakshow location through his presence and projected image.

[Mr. Socko]

But having a second mask in town, in Nolan's town....dunno. I am not nolan, but i would like something more realistic to go with his world.


these these these these these............

reasons like THESE is why I do not like Nolan's dark gritty REALISM. To quote Mister J's usertitle....

[The Joker_1000]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not completely against that type of mentality, these last couple of days? :huh:

As for a second mask in town....well that's the point. Batman was the catalyst for all these costumed looneys to come out of the woodworks. He's made Gotham a freakshow location through his presence and projected image.


Yeah, you summed things up pretty nicely. Even though Batman is helping, he's making things worse as well. Do you think those freaks would've surfaced if Batman was never born?

[deathfromabove]

Scarecrow wears a mask along with Batman in Nolan's "gritty realistic" world......
So that just shows a second mask in town works.....:yay:

your avatar is funny but it borders on completely out of line

[jmc]

these these these these these............

reasons like THESE is why I do not like Nolan's dark gritty REALISM. To quote Mister J's usertitle....

Then don't watch the films.

[Mr. Socko]

Scarecrow wears a mask along with Batman in Nolan's "gritty realistic" world......
So that just shows a second mask in town works.....:yay:

Damn you for presenting such a good point!:cmad:

Then don't watch the films.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5064/christopherlloyd1cd4.jpg

MY GOD! I never thought to do anything like that!? You're a ****ing genius!

[MarkJK1441]

oh good...
Majik1387 = creepiest avy ever:csad:

but anyways i really can't think of who would be good for catwomen.

[regwec]

I'm sure I have heard someone mention Sienna Guillory once or twice. They might have been on to something.

[MarkJK1441]

I'm sure I have heard someone mention Sienna Guillory once or twice. They might have been on to something.

shes alright but i dunno. i would like to see someone that kinda has like an angelina jollie look but not her i think someone that is not a huge star would be best.

[Marx]

I really never pictured Catwoman looking anything like Angelina Jolie.

Me neither. Angelina would be a little too much I think. Now Ashely Judd, Christina Ricci...yeah.

[MarkJK1441]

I really never pictured Catwoman looking anything like Angelina Jolie.
i never pictured your avy on these boards but now i have seen it haha lol.

[Two-Face]

Me neither. Angelina would be a little too much I think. Now Ashely Judd, Christina Ricci...yeah.



Seriously?:huh:

Nobody disses my Jolie.:cmad:

[batboy99]

Ricci=Harley

[Marx]

Seriously?:huh:

Nobody disses my Jolie.:cmad:

I love her as an actress, but she may, just may, be a little too much for the role of Catwoman. I can't really see her disappearing into the role.

[Marx]

Ricci=Harley

I think Christina Ricci would be GREAT as Harley :yay:

[Two-Face]

I love her as an actress, but she may, just may, be a little too much for the role of Catwoman. I can't really see her disappearing into the role.

Is it cos you think she's too famous?

[The Joker_1000]

Any suggestions for Catwoman? We need an actress who looks beautiful & can.....well, actually act.

[gwynplaine]

Maggie Q for Catwoman. She kicked Bruce Willis' a** in the last Die Hard movie (she can also be seen in MI3, hmm that red dress:woot: , and balls of fury). She moves like a cat, she's beautiful and she can act IMHO.

[The Joker_1000]

Do you have a picture of her?

[gwynplaine]

Do you have a picture?
I am sorry, I am really bad at posting pictures but if you google her I'm sure you won't be disappointed, also check aforementionned movies if you haven't already, they're all pretty entertaiuning.

[The Joker_1000]

I'll go on Google but to post pictures, just go to a picture, right click it, copy & paste the link when you click on properties, put at the beginning & then at the end & you're set.

[gwynplaine]

I'll go on Google but to post pictures, just go to a picture, right click it, copy & paste the link when you click on properties, put at the beginning & then at the end & you're set.
Thanks for the tip.

[The Joker_1000]

No problem.

So, when do you think Catwoman should be introduced?

[gwynplaine]

I'll go on Google but to post pictures, just go to a picture, right click it, copy & paste the link when you click on properties, put at the beginning & then at the end & you're set.
I tryed but I'm getting the red cross, I'm sorry but I'm really hopeless:woot: . Let me know what you think if you ever check her out:up: .

[gwynplaine]

No problem.

So, when do you think Catwoman should be introduced?
At this point, my hope is that Nolan is coming back for a 3rd one and that we'll get to see his version of Catwoman in pt 3 maybe. She is a great character but also probably a tricky one to pull off.

[The Joker_1000]

I think that Nolan will be back for the third movie, no one can pull off his Batman universe like him.

[gwynplaine]

I think that Nolan will be back for the third movie, no one can pull off his Batman universe like him.
I sure hope he is coming back too. Did you like Pfeiffer and Burton's take on the character ?

[The Joker_1000]

I prefer Halle Berry's Catwoman but she was just in a bad movie with a bad script. She's a great actress though. Pfeiffer did a good job but I prefer Halle.

[gwynplaine]

I prefer Halle Berry's Catwoman but she was just in a bad movie with a bad script. She's a great actress though. Pfeiffer did a good job but I prefer Halle.
That costum didn't really work for me but you are right Halle's a great actress and I wish she had gotten a better shot at the role. Damn you, Pitof:woot: (I think that's the name of the director).

[The Joker_1000]

I loved the costume, it was something new & fresh.

[gwynplaine]

I loved the costume, it was something new & fresh.
I respect that, to each their own:yay: .

[batboy99]

I loved the costume, it was something new & fresh.
Yes, cuz catwoman is supposed to dress like a **** :)


Seriously, the costume was sexy, but something more for the bed room than an actual costume

[jmc]

I loved the costume, it was something new & fresh.

It was new, but definately not fresh, the design was awful, that character was Catwoman in name only.

[Marx]

Halle was always a terrible choice for Catwoman, and her costume was hideous. If that's what you guys want for Catwpman, I'm happ you're nowhere near movie studio heads.

I completely agree with you Majik! That movie should never have been made! Not in the way that it was anyway.

[gwynplaine]

Julie Newmar FTW !:woot:

[Sandouras]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not completely against that type of mentality, these last couple of days? :huh:

As for a second mask in town....well that's the point. Batman was the catalyst for all these costumed looneys to come out of the woodworks. He's made Gotham a freakshow location through his presence and projected image.Yeah, ok, you got a point.

Majik1387 (http://forums.superherohype.com/member.php?u=15343) I cant unsee your avatar! Damn!
Is it cos you think she's too famous?
Jack Nicholson effect.

[jmc]

Julie Newmar FTW !:woot:

I was so in love with Julie Newmar when I was younger!

That show was great when you were 6 and hilarious when you were 16. :woot:

[gwynplaine]

I was so in love with Julie Newmar when I was younger!

That show was great when you were 6 and hilarious when you were 16. :woot:
Yeah, me too.

[gwynplaine]

Grace Park (battlestar galactica) for Catwoman.

[gwynplaine]

I don't think Catwoman should be Asian.
Why not ?

[Marx]

Same reason for why I didn't think Harvey Dent should be black. That's not the character's ethnicity and I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not going through a whole ethnicity debate for this character again.

I agree with you Majik. It isn't a racism thing either. Characters are created in a certain image. Some things shouldn't be changed.

[TheBatman072]

I loved the costume, it was something new & fresh.


And stupid. Don't forget stupid.


Not to mention ugly.


And dumb.

[The Joker_1000]

That's your opinion which I completely disagree with.

[jmc]

Race is no issue to me, as long as the actor/actress is good and does justice to the character, that's all that matters.

[regwec]

There is no great philosophical bar to changing a character's ethnicity, but it is hardly ever necessary. It just tends to make me think, "since when was Harvey Dent black"?

[Mr. Socko]

I wasn't bothered by Dent being black in Batman'89, mostly because he barely had a part in the movie:oldrazz:

It would be bothersome if they changed the ethnicity of a big character with a large role though.

[Ledlunar]

Halle was always a terrible choice for Catwoman, and her costume was hideous. If that's what you guys want for Catwpman, I'm happ you're nowhere near movie studio heads.

I concur

[Ledlunar]

im so happy jamie fox wasnt cast as two face i rememeber a rumour going around about that he would be awful... why make him black so black fans have a favorite...? i dont get it... they got lucious anyways

[gwynplaine]

Marion Cotillard for Catwoman. "Bonjour, Monsieur Batman".:woot:

[Nepenthes]

Havn't seen Marion Coutillard act, but it's cool these boards have such a flavour of the month disposition.


Because his style of writing just does not call for it. And the stories he has done that did contain romance (Prestige and BB), were either non-existent or plain sucked.

Nolan's shining point is delving into psychologically troubled loners.

what about two troubled loners fighting a natural yet dangerous attraction to each other? :cwink:



How is setting a Batman film in the 1930's not different? What isn't fresh about it? Setting it in that time frame could really give it that sort of noir / golden age of cinema look, a new and unique look, no rubber suits, no hi tech gadgets, no tumbler, there is potential to showcase Batman in a way that's hasn't been seen before.

And to those saying Catwoman needs to be a role model, get over it, the girl is screwed up, she's a thief and a con artist, she isn't a role model, you want female role models for your daughters, look towards family and not comic characters.

It wouldn't be very different because for most purposes B89 is already set in the 30's. The design of the locations, wardrobes, the characterisation of Batman and the people, the noir/pulpish sensibility, it's all there. The only main difference would be the technology and the music....but is low-fi technology really going to make a unique or better movie?


On the other point there's much more to Catwoman than being a theif or a ****ty con artist. She should definitly be a role model imo. Likewise Carrie Bradshaw is a succesful journalist but she and her freinds are some of the most reprehensible women I've ever seen on TV. Though of course I agree young people should look too real life and not TV for role models, but unfortuantly that isn't always going to happen.



I don't like Burtons Cawoman that much...but this pic is killer. from some guys website, brandonredenius

http://www.brandonredenius.com/selina1alt.jpg

[gwynplaine]

Havn't seen Marion Coutillard act, but's it's cool these boards have such a flavour of the month disposition.




what about two troubled loners fighting a natural yet dangerous attraction to each other? :cwink:





It wouldn't be different because for most purposes B89 is already set in the 30's. The design of the locations, costumes, the characterisation of Batman the the people, the noir/pulpish sensibility. The only main difference would be the technology....but is low-fi technology really going to make a unique or better movie?


And there's more to Catwoman than being a theif or a ****ty con artist. She should definitly be a role model imo. Likewise Carrie Bradshaw is a journalist but she and her freinds are some of the most reprehensible women I've ever seen on TV. Though of course I agree young people should look too real life and not TV for role models, but unfortuantly that isn't always going to happen.



I don't like Burtons Cawoman that much...but this pic is killer. from some guys website, brandonredenius

http://www.brandonredenius.com/selina1alt.jpg
I don't know about "these boards", but I've actually been following her career since Luc Besson's Taxi, 10 years ago, she is an amazing actress, but it's cool, you didn't know:yay: and I still think she'd make a great Catwoman. Check her out you won't regret it.

[Marx]

Havn't seen Marion Coutillard act, but it's cool these boards have such a flavour of the month disposition.




what about two troubled loners fighting a natural yet dangerous attraction to each other? :cwink:





It wouldn't be very different because for most purposes B89 is already set in the 30's. The design of the locations, wardrobes, the characterisation of Batman and the people, the noir/pulpish sensibility, it's all there. The only main difference would be the technology and the music....but is low-fi technology really going to make a unique or better movie?


On the other point there's much more to Catwoman than being a theif or a ****ty con artist. She should definitly be a role model imo. Likewise Carrie Bradshaw is a succesful journalist but she and her freinds are some of the most reprehensible women I've ever seen on TV. Though of course I agree young people should look too real life and not TV for role models, but unfortuantly that isn't always going to happen.



I don't like Burtons Cawoman that much...but this pic is killer. from some guys website, brandonredenius

http://www.brandonredenius.com/selina1alt.jpg

I LOVED the Pfeiffer Catwoman. This picture is great! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Crook]

what about two troubled loners fighting a natural yet dangerous attraction to each other? :cwink:
Adding that variable into the equation changes the entire dynamics of how they'll be written. One that I'm honestly not sure can be handled well with Nolan's direction, and Bale's lacking romantic aura.

On the other point there's much more to Catwoman than being a theif or a ****ty con artist. She should definitly be a role model imo.

I don't really see much endearing qualities in Selina to make her a role model. She has a good side to her, but she's a character that constantly walks the line.

I don't like Burtons Cawoman that much...but this pic is killer. from some guys website, brandonredenius

http://www.brandonredenius.com/selina1alt.jpg
Sick picture.

I don't know if it was intentional, but I loved how Selina's twisted look at the end mirrored the comic book look of the hair being out, while she has her suit on.

[Watson]

Adding that variable into the equation changes the entire dynamics of how they'll be written. One that I'm honestly not sure can be handled well with Nolan's direction, and Bale's lacking romantic aura.

I think any women can tell you, Bale does not lack ANY romantic aura. I take your point that Nolan may not be the man to write the catwoman/bruce romance, but I don't think Bale would have an issue acting it.


I don't really see much endearing qualities in Selina to make her a role model. She has a good side to her, but she's a character that constantly walks the line.


I agree, and don't see why she has to be a role model in Nolan's films. She should be as conflicted and dark as Batman is.

[Crook]

I think any women can tell you, Bale does not lack ANY romantic aura. I take your point that Nolan may not be the man to write the catwoman/bruce romance, but I don't think Bale would have an issue acting it.
Sure you're not confusing it with judging how "hot" Bale is? Because there is a difference. :o

He's a good-looking man, and at times he has his own quirky charm, but I haven't seen him carry any noticeably outstanding chemistry with another female lead. Sure, the story might tell you they're deeply in love, but imo I have never seen that from Bale.

[Mr. Socko]

Nolan may have untapped potential in the area of forbidden love between a cat and a bat. Maybe we will find out three years from now. :o

[Crook]

You know I really am half-expecting a "I guess Catwoman is really not that good-looking after all" thread.

And I am utterly petrified at the excuses people will make for a fug Selina. People thought I was passionate in the permawhite thread, well if this happens....they ain't seen nothin' yet. :cmad:

[Mr. Socko]

What makes you think they'd hire an ugly woman as the cat?

[Crook]

I just have a feeling Nolan won't at all take into consideration the "hotness" of Selina. And that if said actress (while not exactly fug, but rather plain) delivers a powerful performance, that'd be enough to get her cast.

[jmc]

It wouldn't be very different because for most purposes B89 is already set in the 30's. The design of the locations, wardrobes, the characterisation of Batman and the people, the noir/pulpish sensibility, it's all there. The only main difference would be the technology and the music....but is low-fi technology really going to make a unique or better movie?


But it wasn't directly set in the 1930's, it had a sort of old fashion feel, but was clearly set in the then present day. I'm talking about taking Batman and putting the character squarely in the middle of the 1930's, The Depression, the alcohol prohibition, references to Germany, the cars, fashion, language, technology, the lot, hell even making the film look like it was made in the 1930's (not black and white, but a sort of desaturated / sepia colour). And I don't see the technology as being low-fi, more like an interesting way of recreating Batman's arsenal in a way that hasn't been seen before, in a classic way, the Batmobile, the cave, utility belt, the suit, all of it. We've seen the character set in modern times, there's only so many times you can do this without it becoming stale. It might not make the film better (that's for the writers to work out), but it would be unique, there has never been a Superhero film that was set in such an era in time.

[jmc]

I just have a feeling Nolan won't at all take into consideration the "hotness" of Selina. And that if said actress (while not exactly fug, but rather plain) delivers a powerful performance, that'd be enough to get her cast.

As an example, would you be against someone like Cate Blanchette for Catwoman?

[Crook]

As much as I think she's undoubtedly the best actress of this generation....yes. I think she'd be miscast.

[The Mighty Wind]

As an example, would you be against someone like Cate Blanchette for Catwoman?

If Cate Blanchett is plain/fug I'll quite willingly cut off my penis.

[Mr. Socko]

I think Cate usually looks average/plain, sometimes better depending on the makeup she is wearing, which really tends to help a lot. I'd never classify her as fugly though.

[jmc]

'Hotness' really is in the eye of the beholder, what hot means to you is most likely different to what hot means to me and what hot means to Nolan. I'd agree that Nolan would more than likely take powerful performance over 'hotness', but I see no problem with that, I think as long as the girl is attractive and the performance is great, then there's nothing to complain about.

[jmc]

If Cate Blanchett is plain/fug I'll quite willingly cut off my penis.

No, I think Cate is beautiful! Most people don't consider her hot though. I didn't mean to come off as suggesting she was ugly!!! quite the contrary! She has a real classic movie star look about her that I love. Had this Batman series been made 10 years ago, she would have been a great Catwoman.

[Mr. Socko]

'Hotness' really is in the eye of the beholder, what hot means to you is most likely different to what hot means to me and what hot means to Nolan. I'd agree that Nolan would more than likely take powerful performance over 'hotness', but I see no problem with that, I think as long as the girl is attractive and the performance is great, then there's nothing to complain about.


I concur.

[Watson]

Sure you're not confusing it with judging how "hot" Bale is? Because there is a difference. :o

He's a good-looking man, and at times he has his own quirky charm, but I haven't seen him carry any noticeably outstanding chemistry with another female lead. Sure, the story might tell you they're deeply in love, but imo I have never seen that from Bale.

I disagree. I think he has convincingly played off female leads. BB isn't the greatest example, but I think even with Holmes being weak he still convingly portrayed a man that was in love.

IMO he convingly carried it off in better performances in Little Women and The New World as far as romantic chemistry with the female lead. And, although it is a voice role, he had really played an aloof loner who fell in love in Howl's Moving Castle. He can do it. The key is getting a female lead who can provide chemistry as well.


You know I really am half-expecting a "I guess Catwoman is really not that good-looking after all" thread.

And I am utterly petrified at the excuses people will make for a fug Selina. People thought I was passionate in the permawhite thread, well if this happens....they ain't seen nothin' yet. :cmad:

Really? I feel like Nolan tends to cast people whom the general public considers "babes", the noticeable exception being Gyllenhal.

[Crook]

'Hotness' really is in the eye of the beholder, what hot means to you is most likely different to what hot means to me and what hot means to Nolan. I'd agree that Nolan would more than likely take powerful performance over 'hotness', but I see no problem with that, I think as long as the girl is attractive and the performance is great, then there's nothing to complain about.
Of course. I'm not here to suggest that hotness should be considered above the performance, but it should most definitely be a big factor. If there's 2 female comic book roles that MUST have a sexy actress, it is Wonder Woman and Selina.

I disagree. I think he has convincingly played off female leads. BB isn't the greatest example, but I think even with Holmes being weak he still convingly portrayed a man that was in love.

IMO he convingly carried it off in better performances in Little Women and The New World as far as romantic chemistry with the female lead. And, although it is a voice role, he had really played an aloof loner who fell in love in Howl's Moving Castle. He can do it. The key is getting a female lead who can provide chemistry as well.
The female leads may also be the problem. He hasn't had much help there. I thought BB and The New World were horrendous in showcasing Bale's potential for a romantic relationship, personally. In the former, the actress was just not up to par. In the latter, the actress gave a really subdued performance, and it seemed like Bale was doing all the admiring. Again, not very outstanding.

Really? I feel like Nolan tends to cast people whom the general public considers "babes", the noticeable exception being Gyllenhal.
Imo, the only true babe he's cast is Scarlett. :O

I think Cate usually looks average/plain, sometimes better depending on the makeup she is wearing, which really tends to help a lot. I'd never classify her as fugly though.
Yeah, she looked great at the Oscars. She does have a certain quality to her, the grace of classic Hollywood if you will. I truly admire her.

But still completely wrong for Selina. :o

[Watson]

The female leads may also be the problem. He hasn't had much help there. I thought BB and The New World were horrendous in showcasing Bale's potential for a romantic relationship, personally. In the former, the actress was just not up to par. In the latter, the actress gave a really subdued performance, and it seemed like Bale was doing all the admiring. Again, not very outstanding.

I thought he was great in New World :O. However, looking at his filmography it also must be said that he hasn't really taken any straight up romantic leads aside from Laurie in Little Women. So this can be hard to judge.

Imo, the only true babe he's cast is Scarlett. :O

Haha I know some bigtime Katie lovers amongst my guy friends. Personally I couldn't stand her after she became Mrs. Xenu.

[jmc]

Of course. I'm not here to suggest that hotness should be considered above the performance, but it should most definitely be a big factor. If there's 2 female comic book roles that MUST have a sexy actress, it is Wonder Woman and Selina.

What is sexy? Is it because an actress doesn't come across as sexy in real life? It doesn't mean they can't be sexy on screen, sexiness is more than just about how the girl looks, it's also about attitude, quite simply, I doubt the director could care whether an actress is the least sexiest girl in her personal life or not, as long as she brings sexiness to the character on screen, that's all that matters. Again, as long as the girl is attractive and performance is sexy and great, what's there to complain about?

[Crook]

What is sexy? Is it because an actress doesn't come across as sexy in real life?
Not necessarily. But I'd say she needs to at least look like she has the potential to be, from appearance alone.

It doesn't mean they can't be sexy on screen, sexiness is more than just about how the girl looks, it's also about attitude, quite simply, I doubt the director could care whether an actress is the least sexiest girl in her personal life or not, as long as she brings sexiness to the character on screen, that's all that matters.
Not disagreeing there. But sexiness is just as much about the attitude, as it is personal looks.

Again, as long as the girl is attractive and performance is sexy and great, what's there to complain about?
I plainly agreed to this sentiment in my very first sentence. :huh:

[jmc]

I plainly agreed to this sentiment in my very first sentence. :huh:

Whoops, my bad, misread your post, not enough coffee today. :whatever:

[BatmanFanatic]

Cate Blanchett is exotic looking to me. Exotic in the European way. I don't think she's ugly at all, she has a very classic sexy look about her thatnot many actresses have today.

Majik I find your avatar almost disturbingly hot. I have to save that pic, even if it's wrong :cwink: (from a true-to-the-character POV not from a RL POV, don't jump on me ppl...)

[Gianakin_]

Welcome back BF. Long time no see.