Opinions you have that OPPOSE your political affiliation

[blind_fury]

I'm a democrat but I think abortion is wrong. Do you have opinions that conflict with your political affiliation or are you just a brain-washed puppet?

[Backdrifter]

I don't ahere to an organizations set standard of beliefs, so I don't have this problem. :)

[Strange]

I think the govenment should take over the health care system in the U.S. but have it run by an independent agency paid by the government.

[The Question]

I have no political party.

[Equinox]

I think people should have the right to choose what is best in their interests..as in the case of abortion..

It helps to control the worlds population in a way you know ;)

[bored]

i want to throw a pie at hillary clinton.

[Equinox]

I wanna ask monica lewinsky for a blowjob :eek:

[War Lord]

I think people should have the right to choose what is best in their interests..as in the case of abortion..

It helps to control the worlds population in a way you know ;)

It also helps keep Democrats out of office.

[bored]

:rolleyes: . take long to think of that, jonty?

[War Lord]

:rolleyes: . take long to think of that, jonty?

It's not my concept, but it is one that I accept as probably true.

It's reasonable to assume that a population that supports abortion will likely use it more than a population that doesn't. Since Democrats support abortion in greater numbers, it's also reasonable to assume that Democrats abort their unborn children in higher numbers than Republicans.

When a segment of a population aborts itself at a higher rate than another segment, it won't grow as fast and will eventually be outnumbered, even if it started out as a majority.

The proof in the pudding is that fact that Democrats are now winning far less elections than Re[ublicans and Red states are growing faster than Blue states.

[blind_fury]

It's not my concept, but it is one that I accept as probably true.

It's reasonable to assume that a population that supports abortion will likely use it more than a population that doesn't. Since Democrats support abortion in greater numbers, it's also reasonable to assume that Democrats abort their unborn children in higher numbers than Republicans.

When a segment of a population aborts itself at a higher rate than another segment, it won't grow as fast and will eventually be outnumbered, even if it started out as a majority.

The proof in the pudding is that fact that Democrats are now winning far less elections than Re[ublicans and Red states are growing faster than Blue states.
I agree that abortion keeps Democrats out of the White House, but your reasoning is borderline insane. Clinton won substantially in 1996, the children born since then aren't even old enough to vote so they couldn't have possible had any effect on recent elections.

[imdaly]

I'm very much a Republican.

My opposing views for this though, are Gay-Rights and religion in general.

I say if gays want to be gay with each other, let them. Doesn't bother me.

And I'm not religious at all, so I hate when the reasoning for some issues are because "God wants it that way" or whatever. Even when I still agree with the resulting issue, I just don't agree with the reasoning.

[Spider-Bite]

I'm a far left liberal, but I believe that it should be illegal to get an abortion once it becomes a fetus. Liberals are supposed to be anti-death penalty, anti-killing, anti-war, and anti-anything inumane.

I also support torturing terrorists for the purpose of gathering intelligence, and I oppose a complete pull out of Iraq.

I think it would be better than what Bush is doing, but it's not the best we could do.

We should contain the Iraq civil war and keep it in Iraq, instead of trying to break it up. And we should protect the oil from getting blown up in their civil war. We station troops on the border and nobody gets in or out. Make it publicly known that we will shoot on site. In that condition the only people who would bother trying to get in or out are people that want to undermine our effort to contain the civil war and prevent Iranian influence. We also station troops to surround the oil fields.

It would be chaper than what we are doing now, and far less soldiers would die. The only way the Iraqis will learn why it's irresponsible to hate each other is to suffer the consequences of hating each other, and that will be war and death in their streets, and this time they wont be able to blame us. It's the only way they will learn. you can't teach a kid math if you use a calcuator to do all his work for him. The Iraqis need to make their historical mistakes so they can learn from them, and untill we step aside and let it happen, their social development will be on pause or rewind.

edit.. I think it's illogical to build up this strong government and strong military that will eventually take up an alliance with Iran and try to kill us anyways. it's like handing a machine gun to your worst enemy and hoping he wont shoot you. We were much safer with Saddam Hussein running Iraq.

[Joker]

to spider-bite- a person will admit to anything under torture, even things that are not true...it just simply doesnt work, and that's why it shouldnt be done, imho

anyway, I'm an indpendent, but am pretty liberal, but I support he death penalty in certain cases

[Maxwell Smart]

I'm very far left..socialist, really. And I'm againt affirmative action.

[redmarvel]

I have no political party.

Same here. When election time comes around I try to keep informed as to which parties are promising what. Then I vote for the one whose promises sound most plausible to be kept and least likely to cause problems (NO NEW TAXES!!!!).

[Spider-Bite]

to spider-bite- a person will admit to anything under torture, even things that are not true...it just simply doesnt work, and that's why it shouldnt be done, imho

anyway, I'm an indpendent, but am pretty liberal, but I support the death penalty in certain cases
there are a lot of different ways to get information, and no one way or technique works for every terrorist in every situation. They have highly trained behavioral profilers to help them figure out the best way to get information, and it's best to leave all of the options on the table. Sometimes torturing is the only way. Other times there are other ways.

Not to mention the sleep deprivation breaks down mental barriers and they can eventually enter a highly suggestive trance like state.

[Spider-Bite]

Same here. When election time comes around I try to keep informed as to which parties are promising what. Then I vote for the one whose promises sound most plausible to be kept and least likely to cause problems (NO NEW TAXES!!!!).


theres a paradox. No new taxes = america will someday be a third world country.

[bored]

I still want to throw a pie at Hillary Clinton. *sigh* Too bad Jonty got banned.

[Mr Sparkle]

I'll bet he's still around.

[redmarvel]

theres a paradox. No new taxes = america will someday be a third world country.

1. I'm Canadian
2. There are enough things taxed now, they don't need to add more taxes to the list. (Goods & Services tax on almost everything you buy, Provincial Sales Tax on things you buy, hidden "gas" tax everytime you fill up your vehicle, income tax paid off your earnings, property taxes for making enough to own your own piece of land, etc....)

[Spider-Bite]

1. I'm Canadian
2. There are enough things taxed now, they don't need to add more taxes to the list. (Goods & Services tax on almost everything you buy, Provincial Sales Tax on things you buy, hidden "gas" tax everytime you fill up your vehicle, income tax paid off your earnings, property taxes for making enough to own your own piece of land, etc....)


the more we pay now the less we pay later. every year were adding 500 billion to our debt, and when the baby boomers retire that number will increaes dramatically. NOt to mention a big hunk of what we pay every year, doesn't even go to pay for government services. It pays off this years interest. The more we pay now, the less we pay later.

If we do not start managing our money, and pay a responsible amount of taxes and lower spending within a few decades we will become a third world country. And because of the web of ecnomic relations throughout the globe, the rest of the world will fall into poverty as well.

[Addendum]

I have no political affiliation

[CConn]

I'm libertarian, or, at least, have very libertarian beliefs, yet just can't be in favor of drug legalization.

[Honey Vibe]

I'm a democrat but I think abortion is wrong. Do you have opinions that conflict with your political affiliation or are you just a brain-washed puppet?
Same as you, brother :up:

[Kritish]

I'm a far left liberal, but I believe that it should be illegal to get an abortion once it becomes a fetus. Liberals are supposed to be anti-death penalty, anti-killing, anti-war, and anti-anything inumane.


It's also inhumane to force a raped woman to carry a fetus to full term.
Scratch that, it's inhumane to force any woman to carry a fetus to full term.

I don't like pary loyality, but I learn to the left, except for I think affirmitive action is racist.

[hippie_hunter]

I tend to disagree with the Republicans on many things, especially concerning abortion, gay rights, etc.

[Spider-Bite]

It's also inhumane to force a raped woman to carry a fetus to full term.
Scratch that, it's inhumane to force any woman to carry a fetus to full term.

I don't like pary loyality, but I learn to the left, except for I think affirmitive action is racist.


Carrying out your normal biological process is not as bad as dying. It might be uncomfortable, and even unpleasant or painful occasionally, but I don't think we should be allowed to kill a person for somebody else's conveinence.

Things like abortion and the death penalty desensitize society over time. It's the slippery slope. You have to think ahead about how society will develop over the next 100 years. Exposure brings tolerance, indifference, and people become used to it. It doesn't matter if it's gay marriage or abortion, people become used to it, and don't give it a second thought.

In the instance of abortion and the death penalty, society can gradually become desensitized to the idea of killing people. That can make it much easier to support a war, or take other steps in that direction. What's next? Killing 2 year olds? Or killing whatever member of society we deem inconveinent? We already execute criminals, and it's moving from murderers to child molestors. What next? Prositutes and drug dealers? Once that happens, then what's next after that? Adulterers and women beaters? Then what? Fat people? Lazy people? Irritating people or people deemed "bad influence"

It might sound crazy but it can happen. Who'd have thought 6 years ago that our government would legalize torture? We never would have guessed. You'd have been called crazy for believing it. but here we are.

Societys can drastically change in the blink of a century, and it'd be wise to think like a sociologist when making political decisions, especially for liberals, because our beliefs are more about the future.

[Dwarf lord]

I tend to disagree with the Republicans on many things, especially concerning abortion, gay rights, etc.

Yeah that's me. I'm very republican, but on the social side, I'm more liberal. Though abortion kind of gives me an uneasy feeling. If it were up to me, there would be no abortion, except for a few variables, but it's not.

[Kritish]

Carrying out your normal biological process is not as bad as dying. It might be uncomfortable, and even unpleasant or painful occasionally, but I don't think we should be allowed to kill a person for somebody else's conveinence.

Things like abortion and the death penalty desensitize society over time. It's the slippery slope. You have to think ahead about how society will develop over the next 100 years. Exposure brings tolerance, indifference, and people become used to it. It doesn't matter if it's gay marriage or abortion, people become used to it, and don't give it a second thought.

In the instance of abortion and the death penalty, society can gradually become desensitized to the idea of killing people. That can make it much easier to support a war, or take other steps in that direction. What's next? Killing 2 year olds? Or killing whatever member of society we deem inconveinent? We already execute criminals, and it's moving from murderers to child molestors. What next? Prositutes and drug dealers? Once that happens, then what's next after that? Adulterers and women beaters? Then what? Fat people? Lazy people? Irritating people or people deemed "bad influence"

It might sound crazy but it can happen. Who'd have thought 6 years ago that our government would legalize torture? We never would have guessed. You'd have been called crazy for believing it. but here we are.

Societys can drastically change in the blink of a century, and it'd be wise to think like a sociologist when making political decisions, especially for liberals, because our beliefs are more about the future.

I'm pretty sure that the world is already desesitized by violence.
I don't believe just because something has Human DNA makes it human, does it have higher thought? I believe self awareness is what makes us human.

Are you saying that if you were a woman, and you were raped you'd grow thought the term?

[Spider-Bite]

I'm pretty sure that the world is already desesitized by violence.
I don't believe just because something has Human DNA makes it human, does it have higher thought? I believe self awareness is what makes us human.

Are you saying that if you were a woman, and you were raped you'd grow thought the term?


No I would abort it before it becomes a fetus. I always thoguht it was 3 months, but the other day i read it was 2. An embryo is just a group of cells in an embryonic state of existence, which means it has the ability to regrow missing body parts, on in this case, a missing body. It's not a human.

But a fetus is different. A fetus is not just a clump of cells, it's a tiny person with arms and legs, and even brain devleopment. I'm completely pro choice while it's an embryo. I don't even consider aborting an embryo to be immoral. I'm 100% for embryonic stem cell research, even when it kills the embryo.

But I'm completely oppossed to aborting a fetus.

the world is desenstized, which is a small part of the reason we have the death penalty and abortion both legal. My point is that the goal should be to change that fact.

[Kritish]

No I would abort it before it becomes a fetus. I always thoguht it was 3 months, but the other day i read it was 2. An embryo is just a group of cells in an embryonic state of existence, which means it has the ability to regrow missing body parts, on in this case, a missing body. It's not a human.

But a fetus is different. A fetus is not just a clump of cells, it's a tiny person with arms and legs, and even brain devleopment. I'm completely pro choice while it's an embryo. I don't even consider aborting an embryo to be immoral. I'm 100% for embryonic stem cell research, even when it kills the embryo.

But I'm completely oppossed to aborting a fetus.

Except by the time you figure out if there is something wrong with it it's already a fetus.

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah that's me. I'm very republican, but on the social side, I'm more liberal. Though abortion kind of gives me an uneasy feeling. If it were up to me, there would be no abortion, except for a few variables, but it's not.

I take no side on the abortion debate. Both sides sicken me and if one side had their way, it would just lead to a Pandora's Box of trouble.

[Kritish]

I take no side on the abortion debate. Both sides sicken me and if one side had their way, it would just lead to a Pandora's Box of trouble.

Because everyone knows that the moment we can abort a fetus soccor moms will go and abort grown children. :whatever:

[Addendum]

Carrying out your normal biological process is not as bad as dying. It might be uncomfortable, and even unpleasant or painful occasionally, but I don't think we should be allowed to kill a person for somebody else's conveinence.

Things like abortion and the death penalty desensitize society over time. It's the slippery slope. You have to think ahead about how society will develop over the next 100 years. Exposure brings tolerance, indifference, and people become used to it. It doesn't matter if it's gay marriage or abortion, people become used to it, and don't give it a second thought.

In the instance of abortion and the death penalty, society can gradually become desensitized to the idea of killing people. That can make it much easier to support a war, or take other steps in that direction. What's next? Killing 2 year olds? Or killing whatever member of society we deem inconveinent? We already execute criminals, and it's moving from murderers to child molestors. What next? Prositutes and drug dealers? Once that happens, then what's next after that? Adulterers and women beaters? Then what? Fat people? Lazy people? Irritating people or people deemed "bad influence"

It might sound crazy but it can happen. Who'd have thought 6 years ago that our government would legalize torture? We never would have guessed. You'd have been called crazy for believing it. but here we are.

Societys can drastically change in the blink of a century, and it'd be wise to think like a sociologist when making political decisions, especially for liberals, because our beliefs are more about the future.
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/445.gif

[hippie_hunter]

Because everyone knows that the moment we can abort a fetus soccor moms will go and abort grown children. :whatever:

The Pro-Life sickens me because they are a bunch of evangellical *******s and some have even resorted to violence to acheive their means.

The Pro-Choice sickens me because they no longer represent "Pro-Choice." They represent the idea of Pro-Self ignoring the fact that with sex comes consequences. Also they ignore the fact that Roe v. Wade created the most liberal abortion laws in the world. When you have such a thing, the only legislation that deals with abortion, is really legislation that restricts it.

If abortion is completely banned, women who want one badly will just resort to other means to do it. Ways that are most likely very dangerous and unsanitary.

If we have completely unrestricted abortion, then we'll probally see an increase in abortion clinic violence. Also, it's exactly like Spider-Bite said:
But a fetus is different. A fetus is not just a clump of cells, it's a tiny person with arms and legs, and even brain devleopment.

There needs to be balance.

Also I think it's kind of an a**hole thing to say when life truely begins. At birth, at conception, whatever. Now, I don't beleive in religion or any of that stuff, but who are we, as human beings, to say when life begins.

[StorminNorman]

I am Libertarian - and I think my beliefs go towards that - outside of Pro-Life

If I had to register myself as a Republican-Democrat - I would be a Republican

My opposing beliefs:
Gay Rights
Stricter Environmental Regulations (though not enough to hurt business)
Infringing on rights of American citizens without Court Order (I support the originally written Patriot Act)

[Kritish]

So we should limit the rights a woman has because the nut jobs would get mad and try to blow it up?

[hippie_hunter]

So we should limit the rights a woman has because the nut jobs would get mad and try to blow it up?

This isn't about limiting the rights of women. This is a debate about responsibility, morality, and life.

A fetus isn't simply just a clump of cells that can just be destroyed. It actually performs functions that living organisms do.

Now, I agree with you that a woman carrying a baby due to rape has the full right to an abortion. I do not beleive that a woman should be FORCED into carrying a child full term. I beleive in aborting an embryo. I think that aborting a fetus that has defects is the right thing to do. And I think that aborting a fetus at the very early stage is acceptable.

But unlimited abortion at anytime is just plain wrong. I beleive that a girl is under 18 and is getting an abortion, the parents must be notified. I beleive in restricting it at a certain point. Also, it takes TWO people to make a baby, while I don't think that the father should get the decision on the issue (it ultimately lies upon the woman), I think that he deserves to have at the very least, some say in it.

If a woman wants an abortion, she should do it at the early stages, not wait freaking 4 or 5 or 6 months to do it.

[Kritish]

This isn't about limiting the rights of women. This is a debate about responsibility, morality, and life.

A fetus isn't simply just a clump of cells that can just be destroyed. It actually performs functions that living organisms do.

Now, I agree with you that a woman carrying a baby due to rape has the full right to an abortion. I do not beleive that a woman should be FORCED into carrying a child full term. I beleive in aborting an embryo. I think that aborting a fetus that has defects is the right thing to do. And I think that aborting a fetus at the very early stage is acceptable.

But unlimited abortion at anytime is just plain wrong. I beleive that a girl is under 18 and is getting an abortion, the parents must be notified. I beleive in restricting it at a certain point. Also, it takes TWO people to make a baby, while I don't think that the father should get the decision on the issue (it ultimately lies upon the woman), I think that he deserves to have at the very least, some say in it.

If a woman wants an abortion, she should do it at the early stages, not wait freaking 4 or 5 or 6 months to do it.

Like I said, you often don't know if there's something wrong with the "fetus" until it is five to six months into the term.

What gives the parents the right to choose for the to be parent? Are they going to carry the fetus?

[hippie_hunter]

Like I said, you often don't know if there's something wrong with the "fetus" until it is five to six months into the term.
As I said, if there is a defect in the fetus, the best thing to do is probally abort it. Defects often cause a life of misery to both the child and parents.

What gives the parents the right to choose for the to be parent? Are they going to carry the fetus?
I'm saying that the parents should be notified over their child having an abortion because people under 18 should not be getting knocked up, haven't fully developed a sense of responsibility, and the fact that the parents are still legally responsible for the child. Parents are often notified over other medical procedures and various other activities, why shouldn't they have the right to know that their child is getting a freaking abortion.

[Sun_Down]

I'm a Democrat, but I'm on the fence on gun control.

[Kritish]

The parents don't have the right to tell kids that they have to carry a fetus to term.

Parents don't get to make a type of decision that will affect their children for the rest of their lives.

[hippie_hunter]

The parents don't have the right to tell kids that they have to carry a fetus to term.

Parents don't get to make a type of decision that will affect their children for the rest of their lives.

I don't think that parents should have the final decision. Again, the final decision is up to the woman carrying the child, but as I said, they should be notified for the reasons I've already mentioned.

[Spider-Bite]

[QUOTE]hippie_hunter;

Also I think it's kind of an a**hole thing to say when life truely begins. At birth, at conception, whatever. Now, I don't beleive in religion or any of that stuff, but who are we, as human beings, to say when life begins.
We are nobody to believe that, which is why I oppose it at such an early age. I don't know when it can be called a human, but I choose to oppose it at an early enough stage in development so that I know I'm not supporting murder. Better to be safe than sorry, or feel guilty.

I don't believe any of us have the right to say when another person should live or die. It shouldn't be a decision that we get to make, which is why I feel the way I feel about abortion and the death penalty. I don't have the right to decide, and I don't believe a pregnant women should have the right to decide either whether the fetus lives or dies. yeah it's inside of her, and not me, and it depens on her, and not me. but at the same time there is a five year old child depending, on his mother and not me. Living in her home and not mine.

I simply believe it's wrong to kill outside of self defense, granting the wishes of the termanilly ill, self preservation, or for food. I don't even squash bugs when I find them in my house, I let them go, even though I don't expect people to go to that same standard, becuase there have been times with mesquitoes that I was too lazy to deal with them. I'm a semi Buddhist/Atheist you could say.

[Spider-Bite]

As I said, if there is a defect in the fetus, the best thing to do is probally abort it. Defects often cause a life of misery to both the child and parents.


I'm saying that the parents should be notified over their child having an abortion because people under 18 should not be getting knocked up, haven't fully developed a sense of responsibility, and the fact that the parents are still legally responsible for the child. Parents are often notified over other medical procedures and various other activities, why shouldn't they have the right to know that their child is getting a freaking abortion.


I don't think the government should force a teenager to tell their parents they had sex. That's going too far into the personal lives of people. Parents can't stop the natural biological process of sex, even though it's important that the children think their parents are trying.

You also have to take sexual abuse into consideration. A young girl that is sexually abused is several times more likely to become pregnant as a teenager, and not by their abuser. Forcing them to go their parents could be potentially devestating for life, especially if their parent is their abuser.

[PhePhe112]

I'm a democrat but I think abortion is wrong. Do you have opinions that conflict with your political affiliation or are you just a brain-washed puppet?

agreed.
but i also think it SHOULD be someone's choice to do whatever they want. but i think it's wrong :(

[Kritish]

agreed.
but i also think it SHOULD be someone's choice to do whatever they want. but i think it's wrong :(

Jesus Christ people, a fetus is human in DNA only. There's much more to humans than DNA. A fetus doesn't have higher brain thought whilst a newborn infant does.

People get a generalized idea of abortion and think "They're killing babies".
It's the same way with stem cells.

[Kritish]

agreed.
but i also think it SHOULD be someone's choice to do whatever they want. but i think it's wrong :(

Jesus Christ people, a fetus is human in DNA only. There's much more to humans than DNA. A fetus doesn't have higher brain thought whilst a newborn infant does.

People get a generalized idea of abortion and think "They're killing babies".
It's the same way with stem cells.

[hippie_hunter]

Jesus Christ people, a fetus is human in DNA only. There's much more to humans than DNA. A fetus doesn't have higher brain thought whilst a newborn infant does.

People get a generalized idea of abortion and think "They're killing babies".
It's the same way with stem cells.

A fetus actually has brain activity and starts to develop bodily functions. It is not just a mere human in DNA only. It is a separate living organism inside and dependent on another's body.

Stem cells are different. If an embryo or fetus is going to get aborted anyways, at least put it to good use. Better than just simply throwing it out.

[ScottyBBadd]

anyway, I'm an indpendent, but am pretty liberal, but I support he death penalty in certain cases

Most Independants like mself consider themselves to be moderates.

[Joker]

there are a lot of different ways to get information, and no one way or technique works for every terrorist in every situation. They have highly trained behavioral profilers to help them figure out the best way to get information, and it's best to leave all of the options on the table. Sometimes torturing is the only way. Other times there are other ways.

Not to mention the sleep deprivation breaks down mental barriers and they can eventually enter a highly suggestive trance like state.

I fear pain...at the first threat of torture, I would spout out the first untrue/outdated bull s**t that came into my head, and I'm sure most of these people would do the same thing, so not only would you possibly not get any information, you could get false information and waste precious man hours and resourced on a wild goose chase...torture just isnt worth the risk...it's much easier to just crack out the old sodium pentathol...

[Joker]

Most Independants like mself consider themselves to be moderates.

well there's alot of things I disagree with the democrats about, including things like political correctness, gun control is some cases, death penalty, etc.

[ScottyBBadd]

well there's alot of things I disagree with the democrats about, including things like political correctness, gun control is some cases, death penalty, etc.

I am with you there.

[Addendum]

I'm against an outright ban on firearms in the country. However, aside from inheriting that German machinegun your grandpa took from the dying hands of a Nazi bastard after he was shot, I can't think of a valid reason a private citizen should have a full automatic weapon.

I do support mandatory firearm training for any law-abiding citizen that wants to own a gun, as a requirement for obtaining a gun license. If we require a written test and road to obtain a driver's license to drive a 2 ton hunk of metal at 80 miles an hour down the freeway, it only makes sense to have the same in place for owning and operating a firearm.

[redmarvel]

the more we pay now the less we pay later. every year were adding 500 billion to our debt, and when the baby boomers retire that number will increaes dramatically. NOt to mention a big hunk of what we pay every year, doesn't even go to pay for government services. It pays off this years interest. The more we pay now, the less we pay later.

If we do not start managing our money, and pay a responsible amount of taxes and lower spending within a few decades we will become a third world country. And because of the web of ecnomic relations throughout the globe, the rest of the world will fall into poverty as well.

Wrong!!! The more we pay now, the MORE we'll pay later. The wonderful :whatever: people in government just use any "extra" taxes as an excuse to increase their salaries / retirement funds. (They've just voted themselves another 10% pay raise). Government needs to learn to be more responsible with the money we entrust to them. (Stop spending a fortune to count how many computers are in each government office across the country... It would actually have been cheaper to provide new computers to those offices)

[blind_fury]

hmmm. The Iraq War is costing tax payers half a trillion dollars and your complaining about a senator pay raise that probably cost less than a million?

[Spider-Bite]

I fear pain...at the first threat of torture, I would spout out the first untrue/outdated bull s**t that came into my head, and I'm sure most of these people would do the same thing, so not only would you possibly not get any information, you could get false information and waste precious man hours and resourced on a wild goose chase...torture just isnt worth the risk...it's much easier to just crack out the old sodium pentathol...

were not talking about sticking their testicles in a vice and smashing them. Were talking about prolonged standing, sleep deprevation, hunger and dehydration. Blinking lights that like hypnotize you and stuff. I don't doubt that some valuable information has ocasionally come from torture.

Remember the terrorist is capable of being afraid to lie.

[Maxwell Smart]

ANY form of torture is un-American and unacceptable for any reason. ^

I would post the Ben Franklin quote but I'm sure you've seen it.

[StorminNorman]

ANY form of torture is un-American and unacceptable for any reason. ^

I would post the Ben Franklin quote but I'm sure you've seen it.

If torture is used to protect American lives - more power to Jack Bauer.

[Mr Sparkle]

If torture is used to protect American lives - more power to Jack Bauer.

I hope you are aware that Jack Bauer is a fictional character.
the situations he is thrust upon are also quite fabricated.
also, those people you root for are not actually on an Island and NOBODY ****ing likes Raymond in real life.

[blind_fury]

ANY form of torture is un-American and unacceptable for any reason. ^

I would post the Ben Franklin quote but I'm sure you've seen it.
Exactly.

Tortue is un-American. America doesn't stoop down to that level for brief moments of security. Our nation integrity is more improtant. If we expect our POWs to be treated humanely we have to do the same to our enemies.

[StorminNorman]

I hope you are aware that Jack Bauer is a fictional character.
the situations he is thrust upon are also quite fabricated.
also, those people you root for are not actually on an Island and NOBODY ****ing likes Raymond in real life.
Next you going to tell me that there really aren't people around the world with powers trying to save a cheerleader :rolleyes:

[Mr Sparkle]

no, that one's factual.

[StorminNorman]

Exactly.

Tortue is un-American. America doesn't stoop down to that level for brief moments of security. Our nation integrity is more improtant. If we expect our POWs to be treated humanely we have to do the same to our enemies.

:whatever: In a perfect world we wouldn't need torture - however in a perfect world we wouldn't need CIA-type people in the ifrst place either.

[blind_fury]

America probably could be alot more secure if it simply executed anyone who opposed our foreign policy but then were no better than those who oppose us and we lose our MORAL AUTHORITY. This becomes extremely important when nation's decide who to support. Us or them.

[Addendum]

If this nation is going to use torture, then it shouldn't pussy foot around with it.

Go balls out and take after the KGB or Spetnaz.

[StorminNorman]

America probably could be alot more secure if it simply executed anyone who opposed our foreign policy but then were no better than those who oppose us and we lose our MORAL AUTHORITY. This becomes extremely important when nation's decide who to support. Us or them.

If a person is protected by the Geneva Convention and the regulations put in place that WE agreed to - then we shouldn't torture them. However in the case of terrorists and rogue extremist, that are not provided protection. Do what we must.

[Addendum]

And then for your reading pleasure, this document (http://www.foia.cia.gov/browse_docs_full.asp?doc_no=0000886487&title=BRAIN+WASHING&abstract=(BEST+COPY+AVAILABLE)&no_pages=0091&pub_date=4%2F25%2F1960&release_date=5%2F23%2F2003&keywords=COMMUNISM%7CBRIANWASHING&case_no=F-1982-00423&copyright=0&release_dec=RIFPUB&classification=U&showPage=0001). The interesting thing for this in today's world is what the CIA and adminsitration considers acceptable falls under the section in the document entitled "Communist Control Techniques"

[blind_fury]

If a person is protected by the Geneva Convention and the regulations put in place that WE agreed to - then we shouldn't torture them. However in the case of terrorists and rogue extremist, that are not provided protection. Do what we must.
If we're willing to stoop down to the level of war criminals and thugs what is our moral authority based on? You can only ride that "we stopped the holocaust" reason for so long until the world starts to question if we're always the good guys.

Moral authority doesn't come from being a rich, western country. It comes from having a better human rights record than China and Cuba. It comes from treating all people humanely even if it means fighting terrorism with one hand tied behind our back.

I'm sure we could've defeated Hitler quicker if we tortured every German POW but then some crucial nuetral countries might have went to the German side because they felt we were no better than the nazis. Losing our moral authority could cost far more lives and freedom than an isolated terrorist attack.