BatGirl...Just Because

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well, to be fair most real life costumes do look like S&M gear with capes. Not that theres anything wrong with that.

You know, if you hadn't followed up your sentence as you did, I would have just to spite Tropico.

[TheCorpulent1]

Because everyone is some kind of deviant.
True, but my particular deviancy doesn't involve cosplay, thankfully. Kittens smothered in maple syrup, on the other hand... but I've already said too much. :o

[LouFerignoDemon]

True, but my particular deviancy doesn't involve cosplay, thankfully. Kittens smothered in maple syrup, on the other hand... but I've already said too much. :o

I know Molly was somewhere in there. And tractors....

[TheCorpulent1]

God, don't get me started on the tractors. Those sweet, ridge-covered treads... :eek:

[LouFerignoDemon]

And the hydraulics!! The lovely lovely hyrdaulics.

[Zeu]

Because everyone is some kind of deviant.

Speak for yourself!
I´m actually quite normal, thankyouverymuch!:o

Hey, does anyone know if there´s a patent for black light condoms? :D

[storyteller]

Yeah! It don't work at all!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/dcdinuba/comic/pics/Superboy.jpg



And look what happened to him.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Speak for yourself!
I´m actually quite normal, thankyouverymuch!:o

Hey, does anyone know if there´s a patent for black light condoms? :D

More than likely.

[Crowforge]

I'm a super perv now lets get back to posting pictures

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/00000000000222222222.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Hoover/batgirlHoover.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Hoover/hooverbatgirl.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/592px-Batgirls.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Batgirl20vs20Catwoman20220Temple.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Batgirl_Chin.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Batgirl_Hoover.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Batgirl_Moy.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/scan.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/scan0002.jpg

[blksuperman2]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/scan.jpg


Nice

[hulkamania85]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/scan.jpg


Wow. Batgirl sure has been doing her crunches and sit ups.

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/batgirlhuntress.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/batgirl2.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/l_8712c0bc3e4287590ee3e334cff78660.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/l_94c304ce3db737e105363c187c409a8a.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/batsupes.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/batshunt.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/bathunt.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/c0b7_12.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/c42c_12.jpg

[Kebab gud]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/l_8712c0bc3e4287590ee3e334cff78660.jpg

Helena gordon? :P

[Drakon]

Canary, those are getting a bit too far on the naughty side. Please keep it clean.

[Arkady Rossovich]

http://jayfrench.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/batgirl.jpg

[blksuperman2]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/l_8712c0bc3e4287590ee3e334cff78660.jpg


I really like the design on this.

[Compi716]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Batgirl20vs20Catwoman20220Temple.jpg

Must be a cold day...:oldrazz:

[Billy Batson]

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/5966/batgirl3.jpg

[Billy Batson]

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/5966/batgirl8.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/5966/batgirl1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/5966/batgirl2.jpg

[MaskedManJRK]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/allstarbatman/06/ASBR_6-8.jpg
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/allstarbatman/06/ASBR_6-9.jpg

From the next All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

Awesome. I wonder how long it'll be before she becomes a dirty **** and 98% of the fabric from that costume goes missing.

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/adam-batgirl.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/BatTrioLG.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/RayLago_BatGirl-web.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/landbatgirl.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/batgirl_pencil_1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/batgirlJPearson.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Batgirl_Babs.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/breretontkbatgirl.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/MONICA-batgirl.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/BatgirlKevinWest.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Jamesjeanbg58prelim.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/CassandraCainTheBatgirl.jpg

[Stealth_Prime]

babs still hot for a cripple

[Super_Ludacris]

Excellent thread. I love Babs and Cassie so I support this thread 100% Cant believe I didnt pick up on it.

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/Bat20Girl20complete.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/11-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/10.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/7-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/6-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/8-1.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/9-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/5-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/4-1.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/3-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/2-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/1-1.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/6.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/5.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/4.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/0.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/2.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/3.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/7.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/8.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/9.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/0717_3.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/11.jpg

[Nathan]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6069/9356batgirl400dd8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7386/18757batgirl400kp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9537/43279batgirl400yr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4319/131057batgirl400js7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1379/147245batgirl400kv9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9229/185587batgirl400iw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6204/93896batgirl400nt8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[TheCorpulent1]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1379/147245batgirl400kv9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9229/185587batgirl400iw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6204/93896batgirl400nt8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I really miss her series. Those were some good times.

:csad:

[The Leaguer]

Back when Damien Scott could still draw.

[CBG]

I really miss her series. Those were some good times.

:csad:

Back when Damien Scott could still draw.

I so heartily agree.

[Stealth_Prime]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/0717_3.jpg



Does anyone have this pic in color? I think this was the best pic of Cassie yet.

[TheCorpulent1]

They need to quit messing around and just give Cass a sword of her own. Put a little bat on the bottom and call it a Bat-sword, or just have her switch back to Kasumi.

[Stealth_Prime]

I thought Bruce already has a.......oh I see....never mind.....

Still didn't Az-Bats (ugh! horrible concept) have the sword?

[CBG]

They need to quit messing around and just give Cass a sword of her own. Put a little bat on the bottom and call it a Bat-sword, or just have her switch back to Kasumi.

I don't mind if she reassumes the Kasumi identity. At the end of the Batgirl series, she outgrew the Batgirl identity.

But as if Beechen will give a damn for continuity of good story ideas.

[IRON_Lad]

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7386/18757batgirl400kp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)












What's this from?

[CBG]

Supergirl #14

Cassandra was taken down when the writer decided to give Kara "crystal spikes".

[TheCorpulent1]

What now? :huh:

[CBG]

What now? :huh:

After that panel, and a memory flashback, Kara spontaneously had spikes of Kryptonian crystals jut out of her body, which pretty much impaled Cassandra.

[TheCorpulent1]

:dry:

[Nathan]

:dry:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1862/1819uh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[TheCorpulent1]

They had to have been trying to make Supergirl's book stupid back then. Seriously.

[CBG]

On the bright side, Cassandra was drawn pretty good in her guest appearance.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, she didn't look too anorexic in those pics. Way to go, Churchill.

[Crowforge]

I kind of want her to go away. I'll admit I love the full mask but the rest?

[IRON_Lad]

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1862/1819uh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


That is awesome

[Crowforge]

Who made this character and did they get any flack for making another asian = ninja character?

[CBG]

Can't speak for others, but I noticed the character because she was Asian.

[The Question]

Who made this character and did they get any flack for making another asian = ninja character?

She was created by Kelly Puckett and Damion Scott. And I never really thought of her as a ninja. In fact, I don't really think of any of the bat family as ninjas. They're style is more a mix of urban guerrilla warfare, psychological warfare, and detective work.

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not like she's automatically a ninja because she's Asian, either. She has a specific reason for being so good at fighting, and she learned almost everything she knows from a white guy.

[The Eagle Host]

She was created by Kelly Puckett and Damion Scott.
Back when Damion Scott could draw. Even though his style changed dramatically from issue to issue.

[Stealth_Prime]

Less chatter; more pics--

Asian Batgirl.....let's see her qualify compared to Babs! (Besides the fact she went over to the Dark side)

[Spider-Jay420]

Don't know if this ones been posted yet, but...
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x187/spider-jay420/3ec0_1-1.jpg
Thank you, Adam Hughes

[Stealth_Prime]

Don't know if this ones been posted yet, but...
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x187/spider-jay420/3ec0_1-1.jpg
Thank you, Adam Hughes

Wow, very nice....but who are the ones towards the end???

[CanaryFan]

Which end? It appears to be Catwoman,Oracle, Zatanna, Black Canary, Powergirl, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Vixen, Batwoman, Poison Ivy, and Harly Quinn.

Apparently only bat villians are hot.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Which end? It appears to be Catwoman,Oracle, Zatanna, Black Canary, Powergirl, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Vixen, Batwoman, Poison Ivy, and Harly Quinn.

Apparently only bat villians are hot.

I think you might have one wrong....I dont think thats Batwoman.First the hair is a bit darker then her normal hair color second if you look very closly on her left hand she is wearing a ring thats in the same shape an Superman's :super: shield.

My guess thats Lois Lane.

[The Eagle Host]

It's Batwoman. There was an entire thread somewhere dedicated to this discussion until someone provided a labelled print (possibly by Hughes himself).

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

It's Batwoman. There was an entire thread somewhere dedicated to this discussion until someone provided a labelled print (possibly by Hughes himself).

I remember that thread but to my knowledge no one posted a labled print.The closed thing to that that anyone posted was a new's artical from somewhere in which they got Powergirl called Wondergirl and Harly was listed as the un-known blonde.

If your referring to something else please show me.

[Varient]

Meh.

Powergirl has less up front than WW or Poison Ivy in this picture,.. Lois Lane reminds me of Rosie O'Donnal,.. and Canary's too skinny.

I'm just saying,.....

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Meh.

Powergirl has less up front than WW or Poison Ivy in this picture

Not to my eyes....PG's top seem much fuller and more upright then ether WW's or Ivy's.

,.. Lois Lane reminds me of Rosie O'Donnal,..

Hehe

and Canary's too skinny.

I'm just saying,.....

Maybe.

[The Eagle Host]

I remember that thread but to my knowledge no one posted a labled print.The closed thing to that that anyone posted was a new's artical from somewhere in which they got Powergirl called Wondergirl and Harly was listed as the un-known blonde.

If your referring to something else please show me.
I am referring to something else. I don't know where it is. Find it yourself.

[Stealth_Prime]

I'm thinking the chick on the chair is Lois; (have to balance out the bat family with the supes family

[The Eagle Host]

If it was Lois, she'd have a wedding ring. Neither of the rings she has are on the correct finger.

It's Batwoman.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I am referring to something else. I don't know where it is. Find it yourself.

That was nasty and uncalled for.

Anyway why should I look for it???You made the claim like you knew what you were talking about:whatever:.

If you dont like your statements being questioned then I suggest you dont post them.

If it was Lois, she'd have a wedding ring. Neither of the rings she has are on the correct finger.

And Far be it for an Artist to make a mistake right?????

It's Batwoman.

Prove it.

If it's Batwoman then why does she have a :super: shaped ring at all????Why is her hair much darker then ever shown before????

Anyway an other good choice for who it could be...."Thorn".The hair color is a better match.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/66752-6498-99749-1-birds-of-prey_su.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/360561-131018-thorn_super.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/366431-174320-thorn_super.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/360563-141021-thorn_super.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/120752-130172-thorn_super.jpg

[blksuperman2]

Never heard of her before. I do sooooo love the pics you've posted though. :)

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Never heard of her before. I do sooooo love the pics you've posted though. :)

She's a new incarnation on a golden age character.

The golden age version is the mother to the twins Jade and Obsidian...the Golden Age Green Lantern's kids.

[TheCorpulent1]

Did she dress like such a **** in the Golden Age, too?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Did she dress like such a **** in the Golden Age, too?

Nope but it was back in the 40's and 50's.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/thorn-Flash089.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, she was ****ty for the times, I suppose.

[Norman Osborn]

Did she dress like such a **** in the Golden Age, too?

Prude much?:cmad:

[TheCorpulent1]

No, just bored of impractically ****ty costumes.

[Norman Osborn]

No, just bored of impractically ****ty costumes.

fair enough

[Crowforge]

No, just bored of impractically ****ty costumes.
In my comic (which I'm not really plugging), everyone that can't deflect bullets with their naughty bits wears the best armor they can get their hands on.

[Varient]

In my comic (which I'm not really plugging), everyone that can't deflect bullets with their naughty bits wears the best armor they can get their hands on.

Link Please.

It's a sore subject with me that males with invulnerability get beat up IN ARMOR while women w/o invulnerability can come out of a meat grinder with only a few hairs out of place,...

I have a feeling your stories will be a breath of freash air.

[TheCorpulent1]

This is about Luke Cage on some level, isn't it? ;)

[CanaryFan]

There was a pic of that poster with the names of the characters printed along the edge and it is Batwoman. Also that is a Batring she is wearing.

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/09.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/06.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/05.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/08.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/07.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/0-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/04.jpg

[CanaryFan]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/02.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/01.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Batgirl/0000.jpg

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

There was a pic of that poster with the names of the characters printed along the edge.and it is Batwoman.

I've never seen that and althou I've seen a few people claim to have seen it...NOT ONE of those people have been able to post it or prove it.

The closest thing someone ever posted that I saw was a new's artical about it in which Powergirl was replaced with the name Wondergirl.And thats not Wondergirl.

So not trying question you or cast doubt onto you but can your show we this pic with the character names printed on the edge????

Also that is a Batring she is wearing.

This is a Bat Ring????

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/Copyof3ec0_1-1.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/Copy2of3ec0_1-1.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/Copy3of3ec0_1-1.jpg

Sorry but I just dont see it.

For one its not even in the shape of a :batty:"Bat".......its red and in the shape of the :super: shield.I guess a Black bat could be inside the shield but who knows.

[CBG]

Isn't there an image floating around here that has the full poster + the names on the bottom?

I remember seeing it here, in these forums.

On a different note, DiDio didn't want Catwoman to be there originally since her series is coming to an end. But Hughes and Mark was adamant about it but DiDio didn't want her there. So Hughes decided to draw her anyway in the form of a 'screw you', more or less.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Isn't there an image floating around here that has the full poster + the names on the bottom?

I remember seeing it here, in these forums.

Thats what I keep hearing but no one has been able to point me in the direction of it.

I'm not saying that its not out there but at least 6 different guys here have told me they saw it here but wont or cant show me the post they're talking about.

I just want to see it myself.

[Varient]

This is about Luke Cage on some level, isn't it? ;)

No,.. Ms. Marvel.

Remember her fight with the Brood?

Those Aliens w/o aug were able to shred Bulletproof, energy resistant unstable moleculed Xmen gear,... and all she got was dirty with her hair out of place.

V.

(I have to give the guys at Marvel credit though lately I've started to see more battle damage.)

[CanaryFan]

I've never seen that and althou I've seen a few people claim to have seen it...NOT ONE of those people have been able to post it or prove it.
.


http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/great%20art/000000.jpg

The writing on the bottom right edge is the names of the characters. There was a bigger version posted somewhere but I'm not sure where it is right now.

[CanaryFan]

By the way why the hell aren't Mary Marvel and Hawkgirl in that poster????

[The Eagle Host]

Because they're s***ty characters.

http://www.pinkkryptonite.com/2008/04/the_women_behind_the_men.html
http://www.panelsofawesome.com/2008/04/24/women-of-dc-promo-poster/
http://johnnybacardi.blogspot.com/2008/04/heres-ladies-of-dcu-poster-which-ive.html

All sites list Batwoman, two specifically pointing out Lois Lane is not present.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/great%20art/000000.jpg

The writing on the bottom right edge is the names of the characters. There was a bigger version posted somewhere but I'm not sure where it is right now.

Thank you very much for posting this.

But it doesnt solve anything for me.

Even after enlarging the pic a number of times I cant make out a single name.

I guess I'll keep looking....and again thanks.

Because they're s***ty characters.

http://www.pinkkryptonite.com/2008/04/the_women_behind_the_men.html
http://www.panelsofawesome.com/2008/04/24/women-of-dc-promo-poster/
http://johnnybacardi.blogspot.com/2008/04/heres-ladies-of-dcu-poster-which-ive.html

All sites list Batwoman, two specifically pointing out Lois Lane is not present.

Thank you as well but I'm still left with questions.

To me all those sites provide is "an opinion" not any hard facts.

But thanks again.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Sorry double post.

[CanaryFan]

Because they're s***ty characters..

Bull*****!

[DBM]

I've never seen that and althou I've seen a few people claim to have seen it...NOT ONE of those people have been able to post it or prove it.

The closest thing someone ever posted that I saw was a new's artical about it in which Powergirl was replaced with the name Wondergirl.And thats not Wondergirl.

So not trying question you or cast doubt onto you but can your show we this pic with the character names printed on the edge????

This is a Bat Ring????

Sorry but I just dont see it.

For one its not even in the shape of a :batty:"Bat".......its red and in the shape of the :super: shield.I guess a Black bat could be inside the shield but who knows.

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble accepting that it's Batwoman when every possible news source is reporting that it is. :huh:

And in regards to the ring, what you seem to think is the S shield is actually a bat based on her costume not Batman's. Like this:
http://powet.tv/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/BatwomanColor.jpg

And if you continue to refuse to believe it, then no I have no further proof so don't bother asking.

[The Eagle Host]

Thank you very much for posting this.

But it doesnt solve anything for me.

Even after enlarging the pic a number of times I cant make out a single name.

I guess I'll keep looking....and again thanks.



Thank you as well but I'm still left with questions.

To me all those sites provide is "an opinion" not any hard facts.

But thanks again.
God you're pathetic.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble accepting that it's Batwoman when every possible news source is reporting that it is. :huh:

Because not one of those sources has any word on the issue from ether DC or the Artist.

All they are offering is what the believe to be fact but have not provided any official word.

Many of these online new sources get things wrong.Even news sources like Wizard get things wrong from time to time.

In Wizards #198 they posted a question on wether their have been any Kryptonians of ethnic back grounds....Black,Asian and so on.

Wizards responce was to say that .....while in the cartoons there have been Kryptonians of color....in the comics all all Kryptonians that have ever been shown were "caucasoid" [meaning white] in color.

Now I dont know if this is news to you but that answer that Wizard printed was WRONG.

The first Black Kryptonians in comics first appeared in 1971's Superman #234 and were from an all black island on Krypton called Vathlo Island and the island itself shown on a map in Superman #239.

An offhand reference to the island and "racial trouble" was made in Alan Moore's story "For the Man Who Has Everything" in Superman Annual #11 from 1985.

In Superman: The Man of Steel # 111 from 2001, a black Kryptonian named "Iph-Ro of Vathlo" appeared.

So there were blacks on Krypton.

News sources get things wrong more times then you think.

And just to understand why I said all this.....I will continue to question who that character is till I see some proof that can be verified.


And in regards to the ring, what you seem to think is the S shield is actually a bat based on her costume not Batman's. Like this:
http://powet.tv/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/BatwomanColor.jpg


Again the wring does not look remotely like that "BAT".

Now it may be because of the QT of the image that was posted but it looks more like the :super: then it does the Bat on BW's chest.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/sto_vo_kor_2000/DC%20Superheroes/Birds%20of%20prey/Copy2of3ec0_1-1.jpg

And if you continue to refuse to believe it,

I'm not refusing to believe...its just that I havent seen any proof saying that its Batwoman.

then no I have no further proof so don't bother asking.

I dont recall asking you in the first place but ether way you havent provided any proof.

CanaryFan did but it wasnt readable to me.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

God you're pathetic.

Why is that??

Because I'm polite enough to say thanks???

[CBG]

I suppose I can ask Hughes when I line-up to get my AH! stuff signed during the National Comic Book Expo.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I suppose I can ask Hughes when I line-up to get my AH! stuff signed during the National Comic Book Expo.

Thats a good idea.

Its not like I'm vested ether way.I just want to know who it is.

[TheCorpulent1]

The last two pages' worth of posts make it seem like you have a pretty vested interest... :dry:

[Varient]

Meh.
All this about who the rosie o donnel wannabe is?

I prefer that it be Batwoman,...

[TheCorpulent1]

Rosie O'Donnell never looked that good. :o

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The last two pages' worth of posts make it seem like you have a pretty vested interest... :dry:

Then your misinterpertating my post.

I have an interest in knowing who it is but who it end up being doesnt really matter.

I just wasnt to know.

Rosie O'Donnell never looked that good. :o

Truer words have never been spoken.

[TheCorpulent1]

The fact that pretty much every website and everyone on here is telling you it's Batwoman would seem to be good enough unless you have a really vested interest. Even with potentially inaccurate sources, that much independent corroboration should give you your answer.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The fact that pretty much every website and everyone on here is telling you it's Batwoman would seem to be good enough unless you have a really vested interest. Even with potentially inaccurate sources, that much independent corroboration should give you your answer.


If every one told you that Meagan Fox was once a man would you believe it of would you want proof????

And would wanting proof meen that you were personally vested in the answer????

Every one is saying it's Batwoman but no one can provide any proof at all.

Not a single one of those sites had any official word from DC or Adam H.All they had there amounted to was the opinion of the reporter.

[TheCorpulent1]

Okay, well, good luck to you in your quest for the truth. I'm content to take the word of everyone else and all those websites because, in the end, it doesn't really matter that much to me who that chick is.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Okay, well, good luck to you in your quest for the truth. I'm content to take the word of everyone else and all those websites because, in the end, it doesn't really matter that much to me who that chick is.

Thanks I guess.

Its not really a quest for the truth.Its just that I'm a big fan of Adams are.I have quite a few of his works framed and hanging in mu house [thou my wife hates them] and I'm just interested in whos in theis poster.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe he has an e-mail address you could try.

[Spider-Jay420]

"The truth is out there."

[Crowforge]

I suppose I can ask Hughes when I line-up to get my AH! stuff signed during the National Comic Book Expo.

Does he have a web presence or post on some site?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Maybe he has an e-mail address you could try.

Maybe:huh:

"The truth is out there."

Hehe:word:

Does he have a web presence or post on some site?

I've been looking for something like that too but came up with zip.

[Spider-Jay420]

http://www.justsayah.com/

Sorry boys, everything BUT who the ladies are. Shoot him an e-mail.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

http://www.justsayah.com/

Sorry boys, everything BUT who the ladies are. Shoot him an e-mail.

Thanks a lot.

[Crowforge]

Ask him who he uses for reference while you're at it.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Ask him who he uses for reference while you're at it.

Do you mean like who he modeled the character after???

[The Eagle Host]

I just got back from Heroes Convention, where the Newsarama booth was giving away these posters. Unfortunately they were out by the time I got there, but they had one on display. At the bottom right of the poster:

"Batwoman."

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I just got back from Heroes Convention, where the Newsarama booth was giving away these posters. Unfortunately they were out by the time I got there, but they had one on display. At the bottom right of the poster:

"Batwoman."

Shame you couldnt get one.

But at least since these are available to the public now I'll be able to know for sure myself how she is.

Probably get one on ebay and frame it.

[blksuperman2]

I just got back from Heroes Convention, where the Newsarama booth was giving away these posters. Unfortunately they were out by the time I got there, but they had one on display. At the bottom right of the poster:

"Batwoman."

I went to the one in Charlotte. Was that the one you went to too? I got a free poster Saturday and yes it's Batwoman.

[The Eagle Host]

That's the one. I missed the posters, but I managed to grab a handful of each pin.

[TheCorpulent1]

What did the pins say? "Why is Dan DiDio trying to crush our souls?"

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

and yes it's Batwoman.

Well its good to finely know.

[The Eagle Host]

What did the pins say? "Why is Dan DiDio trying to crush our souls?"

The guy may be driving DC into the ground right now, but goddamn, it's hard to dislike him after hearing him talk. The guy really does love comics, and he really does want to make fans happy and it's so easy to listen to him. I guess he's like of like Hitler in that respect.

[CBG]

Results speak louder than words.

[The Eagle Host]

...Okay.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'll like DiDio when the comics retcon that League of Assassins nonsense and start recognizing all of Batgirl's personal growth.

[swifty]

keep pics coming.

[CBG]

Batgirl: Jim Califiore said, “I really like her look”, indicating the stitches across the mask. Adam Beechen will be writing this new mini, with Califiore on art. The artist continued, “We’re starting off with her living in the mansion, trying to explain actions she had taken before.” He goes on to explain that she’s got a little bit of an agenda. That will have her running up against Batman’s no killing rule; she wants final revenge on Cain and Slade.

Final revenge?

Well. . . it can be somewhat kept in her characterization, if written properly. . .

But it's Beechen.

So I'm expecting the absolute worst.

[Crowforge]

Do you mean like who he modeled the character after???
Yes, where is he finding all these lantern jawed women from.

[hippie_hunter]

By the mansion do they mean Wayne Manor? It seems kinda odd that she would just start living there now.

[Fledermaus]

The guy may be driving DC into the ground right now, but goddamn, it's hard to dislike him after hearing him talk. The guy really does love comics, and he really does want to make fans happy and it's so easy to listen to him. I guess he's like of like Hitler in that respect.

Damn.

[TheCorpulent1]

Batgirl: Jim Califiore said, “I really like her look”, indicating the stitches across the mask. Adam Beechen will be writing this new mini, with Califiore on art. The artist continued, “We’re starting off with her living in the mansion, trying to explain actions she had taken before.” He goes on to explain that she’s got a little bit of an agenda. That will have her running up against Batman’s no killing rule; she wants final revenge on Cain and Slade.
The mini officially fails before it's even started. :o

[CBG]

Beechen's to blame.

Editorial too, if they haven't learned why we reacted the way we did in the first place.

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not that hard to figure out. Just lurk around any comic book message board for more than five minutes around the time that that whole thing went down. :o

[Crowforge]

I don't know what's wrong

[anrrd_2]

has the cover art been released yet?

[CBG]

Long ago.

The story premise needs some work.

[TheCorpulent1]

Or a new writer.

[hippie_hunter]

The preview sucks :(

[CBG]

Very few writers can surpass my worst expectations.

Preview is not promising, but I'll reserve my judgment when I finally read it.

[hippie_hunter]

It's like Beechen has no idea about the character. Last time I checked, Cain was dead, Batgirl was illiterate, and she wasn't offered another life if she stopped killing.

[anrrd_2]

since this is "batgirl...just because" i thought i would put this up...just because:cwink:.

its what i believe cass would have looked like had she appeared in bruce timm's Batman: the animated series....






http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/deweese07/btascassie-1.jpg

[CBG]

It's like Beechen has no idea about the character. Last time I checked, Cain was dead, Batgirl was illiterate, and she wasn't offered another life if she stopped killing.

And the guy claimed he finally did research and read some issues of her series.

[anrrd_2]

some people never change....i hope there is at least SOME positive we can take away from this new series.

[CBG]

Finally read it.

Thing to keep in mind, Beechen's going with what he established/retconned previously with Cassandra.

Lots of talking; Beechen's attempt to jusitify and amend his character additions and direction to Cassandra's character. Drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs. . . behaviour, drugs, drugs. . . literally shoved down our throat.

That's pretty much the bulk of the entire first issue.

As for Cassandra's characterization. . . sigh.

The few positives here that I can read are Alfred and Batman's characterization and how they regard Cassandra.

But yeah, Beechen dug himself a ****ing hole with his work with Cassandra Cain. Far as I can see here, he hasn't moved yet. Though, it is still the first issue.

Then again, I look back to how Robin OYL started.

Yeah, I'm still quite bitter about that even after all this time.

[fifthfiend]

Well that's unsurprising.

The story premise needs some work.

Re: be thrown out entirely?

EDIT: So I looked up the preview? Oh man, that was failtacular.

[CBG]

Well that's unsurprising.

Re: be thrown out entirely?

I wish. But Beechen is adamant to sticking with his direction, for worst.

EDIT: So I looked up the preview? Oh man, that was failtacular.

Wait until you see Beechen's account of her missing year stuff.

[Crowforge]

Where's the preview?

[fifthfiend]

Where's the preview?

I would link you but I'm not sure that the law wouldn't define that as assault.

[anrrd_2]

I would link you but I'm not sure that the law wouldn't define that as assault.

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!:applaud:lmao::pal:

its funny because its true :)...and its sad because its funny :(

[anrrd_2]

hhmm...heres a thought on how DC might be able to save cass...partially inspired my manic and dawnwarrior

1st. (its a given) get rid of F*ing beechen!

next...why not have cassie move out of gotham? into a new city or burro of gotham (similar to bludhaven) and continue her war on crime as a solo hero...she would of course still be batgirl.

also...stephanie comes with her. stephanie becomes cassies sidekick. she could be robin or stay as spoiler...or even adopt a completely new persona. but before that happens...stephanie knocks some since into cassie. both metaphorically and physically. what better way to illustrate cassies HUGE fall from grace than to be defeated by stephanie brown! that signals the turn around in cassie character and the begining of the climg out of the giant grave that beechen has dug for this character.


of course the writers would treat the relationship between steph and cass in a way similar to fire and ice (bea and tora)...which could be a great thing, or kill the characters once and for all.

thoughts?

[Crowforge]

How about that link now?

[fifthfiend]

Okay, if you insist (http://www.google.com/search?q=google+it%2C+sucka!&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official).

[anrrd_2]

heh, thats clever. i honestly expected a rickroll

[Crowforge]

I can't get a Batgirl link in the Batgirl thread?

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish. But Beechen is adamant to sticking with his direction, for worst.
This is one instance where I would've much preferred a hackneyed clone/imposter story where we find out the Cass of Robin and Teen Titans isn't the real one. It'd be so easy and it'd solve all the problems with the character. Hell, the way Beechen's writing her now, it could be a clone made by Cain and Slade, and Cassandra's personality appears to have devolved several years because Cain hasn't had much contact with her for a long time.

[CBG]

I preferred it ignored entirely. To me, it was that bad.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, I like continuity, so I think it needs some explanation. I just don't think it needs to remain a part of the character.

[CBG]

Well, I like continuity, so I think it needs some explanation.

Drugs, drugs, drugs. Heck, the word "drug" and related was ridiculously overstated in explaining Cassandra's behaviour.

I just don't think it needs to remain a part of the character.

Agreed, but Beechen is going with it.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ugh, and all because Dan DiDio basically doesn't give a s*** about the character. I wish there were some way to get a Batman-only Executive Editor who actually gets the characters and could keep DiDio's grubby paws off 'em.

[CBG]

Dan DiDio will be appearing at the Comic Book Expo here in Toronto, come August.

Any questions anyone want me to put forward?

[anrrd_2]

Dan DiDio will be appearing at the Comic Book Expo here in Toronto, come August.

Any questions anyone want me to put forward?
just hold up a "batgirl #1" comic (any batgirl/beechen issue will do) and simply ask him "why?":csad::csad:

[TheCorpulent1]

Hahaha, that'd be hilarious.

[CBG]

He probably won't get it.

[anrrd_2]

too true. :(

[The Eagle Host]

This book was trash. Beechen clearly has never read a single issue of her old comic.

Batgirl does not kill. It's FUNDAMENTAL to her character. That's the ENTIRE REASON she left Cain to begin with. She hates killing.

God Beechen sucks.

[TheCorpulent1]

Remember that argument we had about whether Batgirl actually killed Lady Shiva in her series' last issue?

I miss being able to argue over the status of Cass' no-killing rule... :(

[CBG]

I miss what Cassandra Cain used to be. Before Beechen ruined her and gave us a mockery of the character.

[anrrd_2]

Remember that argument we had about whether Batgirl actually killed Lady Shiva in her series' last issue?

I miss being able to argue over the status of Cass' no-killing rule... :(

you guys argued about that? i mena, ya she stuck shiva on that hook like a christmas ornament. but it WAS over the lazarus pit. eventually gravity would have made the hook tear through her shoulder and she would have fallen in....

[TheCorpulent1]

It was more about what it meant for the character. But I think I maintained that Cass never actually killed Shiva. She knew the hook would drop her into the Lazarus Pit before she died.

[anrrd_2]

i thought that was one of if not THE most powerful sequence in the whole series....the fight was so perfectly executed, the almost slowmotion way it showed her dodge shivas attack was brilliant....of course i was shocked to see cassie pulling a wonderwoman. then hanging her own mother out to dry. "sorry mom"....it gave me chills! and i love how she sort of smirked as she walked away from her mother

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, it was a good ending to her series.

[anrrd_2]

yes it was..and i has been all down hill ever since :(

[TheCorpulent1]

CBR interview with Beechen (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17293)

The comments in the forum regarding that interview are basically the same as the ones over here: in attempting to "fix" his mistakes with Cass, Beechen's just showing that he still doesn't understand anything about the character.

[anrrd_2]

please god let beechen do something right in this mini...if nothing more than backing out and letting soemone else finish it.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's not going to happen. I think Beechen is happily patting himself on the back, perfectly content in the knowledge that he's fixed Cassandra and redeemed himself.

[CBG]

That's not going to happen. I think Beechen is happily patting himself on the back, perfectly content in the knowledge that he's fixed Cassandra and redeemed himself.

CassToons will have a long field day with that one.

[anrrd_2]

^theres that possitive i was looking for!! yay for casstoons!

[CBG]

Cassandra Cain cameos in Final Crisis #3!

[TheCorpulent1]

Does she do anything worthwhile?

[CBG]

Does she do anything worthwhile?

Answering the call from Article X.

Nonetheless, a cameo in a big event is welcoming.

[TheCorpulent1]

I was gonna buy it anyway. I was just curious if she did anything big. Aquaman's supposed to appear in this week's FC, too. I'm looking forward to that.

[CBG]

I was gonna buy it anyway. I was just curious if she did anything big. Aquaman's supposed to appear in this week's FC, too. I'm looking forward to that.

Cameo. Answering call from Article X.

[Arkady Rossovich]

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r345/richie_wallace_photo/Batgirl.jpg

[The Eagle Host]

Her cameo was pretty blah. DC obviously has plans to use her, despite having absolutely no idea what to do with her, so I'd be happier about seeing a cameo of somebody I'm worried about falling into obscurity, or someone I'd love to see pulled back from it, like Faith or Zauriel.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe they'll have Zauriel become a Satanist one day. :up:

[anrrd_2]

maybe they will finally retcon the disater that was "one year later", though i doubt yhey would do that in FC whil cass has her own mini going on....but i can dream

[CBG]

Adam Beechen is planning to make his changes to the character stick.

Bastard.

[TheCorpulent1]

"Planning"? I thought that's what the whole mini was about. :o

[CBG]

Either way, it's agony to read.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I've decided I'm not going to anymore. I'm gonna just pass on the rest of the series, since Beechen's made his intent with it clear.

[Anubis]

What happened now?

[TheCorpulent1]

Nothing new. Beechen still sucks and he's passing it onto Batgirl.

[CBG]

Makes me wonder why the heck did they assign the writer WHO RUINED HER for the job that's suppose to fix her.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's what I've been wondering for months.

[CBG]

I suppose it's "give the guy a second chance".

If it is, you utter ****tards.

[TheCorpulent1]

I doubt anyone at DC is unhappy with Beechen's work. Everything he's worked on has sold pretty well. Pissing fans off is irrelevant unless they actually stop buying the comics because of it.

[CBG]

Or everyone collectively sends hate mail and death threats.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ain't enough hate mail in the world to compete with the almighty dollar.

[CBG]

Going by "actions speak louder than words". . . well, there's numerous ways to do that.

[TheCorpulent1]

No, it's nothing to do with actions or words. Sales speak louder than anything else, period. DC's a business, after all.

[CBG]

True.

But an open attack is an open attack.

Extreme!

[Anubis]

You planning to rape Didio again?

[The Major]

No, it's nothing to do with actions or words. Sales speak louder than anything else, period. DC's a business, after all.

Batgirl's title was outselling Robin and Catwoman at the time IIRC. They were never in danger of being canceled, either.

They also neglected putting Cass in all Bat-events and books.

A Superboy/Cass romance was stopped very quickly. If that had kept going it could have given her constant exposure in the Super titles.

She wasn't in any team books that I can remember. She would have been fine on Teen Titans or Birds of Prey.

The final issue of her series set Cass up perfectly as a possible anti-hero or villain similar to The Punisher. They could made her graduate to the Kasumi name permanently like Grayson did with Nightwing and given her another title following this direction.

All could have raised her profile within the DCU, not required to turn her evil, not alienated her fan base or stop the title from being published .

[CBG]

Batgirl's title was outselling Robin and Catwoman at the time IIRC. They were never in danger of being canceled, either.

This is true.

They also neglected putting Cass in all Bat-events and books.

Save War Games.

But in Hush, it was either Loeb or Lee that disliked her and thus did not include her.

A Superboy/Cass romance was stopped very quickly. If that had kept going it could have given her constant exposure in the Super titles.

Possible. . .

She wasn't in any team books that I can remember. She would have been fine on Teen Titans or Birds of Prey.

Justice League Elite, as Kasumi.

All could have raised her profile within the DCU, not required to turn her evil, not alienated her fan base or stop the title from being published .

Writers kept her status low-key and solo almost her entire run, which has its benefits and drawbacks.

Under Gabrych's writing, Cassandra outgrown her role as Batgirl. It would have been great to see her adopt the identity of Kasumi, harkening back to her JLE days. But editorial and Beechen came along.

Anyone up for a Cassandra/Stephanie mini? Batgirl & Spoiler.

[The Major]

Save War Games.

How big a role did she have in that?

But in Hush, it was either Loeb or Lee that disliked her and thus did not include her.

She was better off not being in that. Who knows what Loeb would have done with her. :(

Justice League Elite, as Kasumi.

Not an ongoing title. I would be an option if it was.

Writers kept her status low-key and solo almost her entire run, which has its benefits and drawbacks.

Exposure has more benefits then drawbacks IMO.

Under Gabrych's writing, Cassandra outgrown her role as Batgirl. It would have been great to see her adopt the identity of Kasumi, harkening back to her JLE days. But editorial and Beechen came along.

Exactly. He'd have been a logical creator to write the Kasumi ongoing.

Anyone up for a Cassandra/Stephanie mini? Batgirl & Spoiler.

I want a series of it. :D

Gail Simone had her own series proposal for Batgirl, as well. It was a weird direction with Cass exploring Christianity. I'd have liked to see where it went.

[TheCorpulent1]

Batgirl and Spoiler would be awesome.

[CBG]

How big a role did she have in that?

Nothing too big. But still an inclusion to a Bat event.

She was better off not being in that. Who knows what Loeb would have done with her. :(

Hush is far superior to his work on Ultimates 3 and Hulk.

Plus, Cassandra Cain would have been rendered by Jim Lee's pencils, which is rare. The artist dislikes the character, and partly the reason why she was absent in Hush.

Not an ongoing title. I would be an option if it was.

Nonetheless, she was part of a greater team, and had an alternative identity that wasn't Batgirl.

Exposure has more benefits then drawbacks IMO.

True.

Exactly. He'd have been a logical creator to write the Kasumi ongoing.

If he was ever interested in writing her again. Oh well. . .

I want a series of it. :D

NOT handled by Beechen.

Gail Simone had her own series proposal for Batgirl, as well. It was a weird direction with Cass exploring Christianity. I'd have liked to see where it went.

I've read her proposal. Personally, I didn't like the profound religion spin on the character, though. But it would serve as interesting character development.

Batgirl and Spoiler would be awesome.

Damn agreed. But not with Beechen.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, that's a given at this point. Beechen's had several chances and he just keeps proving again and again that he has absolutely no clue how to write Cass.

[The Major]

Nothing too big. But still an inclusion to a Bat event.

She really deserved more attention in stuff like that.

Hush is far superior to his work on Ultimates 3 and Hulk.

True.

Plus, Cassandra Cain would have been rendered by Jim Lee's pencils, which is rare.

True.

The artist dislikes the character, and partly the reason why she was absent in Hush.

Has he ever said why he dislikes her?

Nonetheless, she was part of a greater team, and had an alternative identity that wasn't Batgirl.

Being on JLE would have left her in limbo with no presence on the racks in anything.

She could be part of a greater team and be Kasumi on TT or BOP.

If he was ever interested in writing her again. Oh well. . .

He needs to get allowed near the character first. That aint happening any time soon. It's a miracle Dixon got her at all.

NOT handled by Beechen.

That would be a requirement.

I've read her proposal. Personally, I didn't like the profound religion spin on the character, though. But it would serve as interesting character development.

I've never been let down by Gail.

The direction is odd but I don't see how it couldn't be entertaining.

Damn agreed. But not with Beechen.

:D

[CBG]

Well, that's a given at this point. Beechen's had several chances and he just keeps proving again and again that he has absolutely no clue how to write Cass.

But it seems that DC editorial pays no attention to him or the specifics of our criticism.

She really deserved more attention in stuff like that.

Agreed.

True.

True.

Has he ever said why he dislikes her?

Not sure with regards to her character specifically. But I know one reason was that she wasn't Barbara Gordon, former Batgirl.

Being on JLE would have left her in limbo with no presence on the racks in anything.

She could be part of a greater team and be Kasumi on TT or BOP.

JLE was more like the JLA's black-ops, somewhat.

Not sure how well she would interact with the TT at the time, least be accepted by them.

She rarely is used in BoP, despite Barbara being the closest to being a surrogate mother to Cassandra.

He needs to get allowed near the character first. That aint happening any time soon. It's a miracle Dixon got her at all.

Pity he left. . .

That would be a requirement.

Agreed.

I've never been let down by Gail.

The direction is odd but I don't see how it couldn't be entertaining.

Personal preferences, I suppose.

:D

[The Major]

But it seems that DC editorial pays no attention to him or the specifics of our criticism.

Fairly accurate observation.

Not sure with regards to her character specifically. But I know one reason was that she wasn't Barbara Gordon, former Batgirl.

Doesn't surprise me.

JLE was more like the JLA's black-ops, somewhat.

I read the mini-series.

The problem is they don't have an ongoing, aren't in any sequel mini-series and have no presence in the DCU when the mini ended.

The other teams don't have that problem.

Not sure how well she would interact with the TT at the time, least be accepted by them.

That's why it would be great to see.

She rarely is used in BoP, despite Barbara being the closest to being a surrogate mother to Cassandra.

Being a permanent member of the team would address this.

Pity he left. . .

Agreed.

Personal preferences, I suppose.

True.

[CBG]

Fairly accurate observation.

Unfortunately true.

Doesn't surprise me.

Indeed.

I read the mini-series.

The problem is they don't have an ongoing, aren't in any sequel mini-series and have no presence in the DCU when the mini ended.

The other teams don't have that problem.

Popularity, I suppose.

That's why it would be great to see.

If she had a continued, recurring presence, yes. Wouldn't mean much if she was only there for a storyline or two.

Being a permanent member of the team would address this.

I don't think at any point in the BoP series was Cassandra ever acknowledged or regarded as an official BoP member. At least, from what I'm aware of.

Agreed.

True.

[The Major]

Popularity, I suppose.

Exposure and product. Cass fans can't read a comic that doesn't exist.

If she had a continued, recurring presence, yes. Wouldn't mean much if she was only there for a storyline or two.

Still an interesting place to take Cass.

I don't think at any point in the BoP series was Cassandra ever acknowledged or regarded as an official BoP member. At least, from what I'm aware of.

She doesn't need to be an official member to be join it. Any team can get new recruits. BOP isn't any different with that.

[CBG]

Exposure and product. Cass fans can't read a comic that doesn't exist.

True. General fans are unaware of her involvement with the JLE, least the team's existence.

Still an interesting place to take Cass.

True. She does need other characters, be they existing or another supporting cast.

She doesn't need to be an official member to be join it. Any team can get new recruits. BOP isn't any different with that.

Understandable. But at this point, Cassandra and Barbara need to reconcile first.

With Dixon gone, the intended Detective Comics issue detailing Bruce and Cassandra's reconcilation is most likely cancelled now.

[The Major]

True. General fans are unaware of her involvement with the JLE, least the team's existence.

Could be solved with an ongoing of their own and a bigger presence in the DCU. Only it seems the Outsiders have taken their spot. Though I think the JLE still would serve a slightly more extreme function.

True. She does need other characters, be they existing or another supporting cast.

Gail could have solved that problem. Any good writer could, really. It just needs to get green lighted by DC editorial. That's the biggest hurdle.

Understandable. But at this point, Cassandra and Barbara need to reconcile first.

Why couldn't this happen in BOP? It's not like Cass has her own title to show it.

With Dixon gone, the intended Detective Comics issue detailing Bruce and Cassandra's reconcilation is most likely cancelled now.

Not unexpected. I was looking forward to that. :(

[CBG]

Could be solved with an ongoing of their own and a bigger presence in the DCU. Only it seems the Outsiders have taken their spot in the DCU. Though I think the JLE still would serve a slightly more extreme function.

The chance of this happening are as high as Cass getting a new series not written by Beechan. Zero.

Agreed, unfortunatey.

I'm sure Gail could have solved that problem. Any good writer could, really.

Well, Cassandra did have a short-lived supporting cast when Gabrych took over her series.

Then they were wiped out when Bludhaven was nuked in Infinite Crisis.

Why couldn't this happen in BOP? It's not like Cass has her own title to show it.

Depends if the writer wants to write it, be it his own volition or editorial mandate.

Regardless, said reconciliation is not mentioned in future solicits so far.

Not unexpected. I was looking forward to that. :(

Virtually every Cassandra fan was.

But it looks like it will be postponed, if not never addressed. . .

[The Major]

Well, Cassandra did have a short-lived supporting cast when Gabrych took over her series.

Then they were wiped out when Bludhaven was nuked in Infinite Crisis.

New characters or bringing in old ones from other series.

It is strange why DC hasn't had Cass mention Bludhaven since IC. That would be interesting to see Cass reacting to it.


Depends if the writer wants to write it, be it his own volition or editorial mandate.

We know Gail does. Dixon could have been a candidate before he left.

There are previous writers of her series like Gabrych.

Who knows how many writers DC has who are fans of the character but are scared to either admit they want to write character, editorial forbids them from using Cass or know any proposal would be a waste of time to pitch.

Regardless, said reconciliation is not mentioned in future solicits so far.

I doubt Cass will ever meet Barbara again. If this does occur you can bet it she won't trust Cass anymore. :(

I'm merely being theoretical here. There are many ways to fix Cass creatively but they won't see the light of day unless editorial allows it.

Virtually every Cassandra fan was.

But it looks like it will be postponed, if not never addressed. . .

I expect we'll never see it.

[CBG]

New characters or bringing in old ones from other series.

The latter would require the writer to have previously read the series.

Lord knows DC won't assign that kind of writer to Cassandra any time so. . .

It is strange why DC hasn't had Cass mention Bludhaven since IC. That would be interesting to see Cass reacting to it.

She knows about it. Gabrych wrote her reaction in the closing issues of Batgirl.

We know Gail does.

She's on Wonder Woman and Secret Six. She's not on BoP, I think, either now or future solicits.

Dixon could have been a candidate before he left.

Indeed, since he was writing her in Outsiders.

There are previous writers of her series like Gabrych.

If he came back.

Who knows how many writers DC has who are fans of the character but are scared to either admit they want to write character, editorial forbids them from using Cass or know any proposal would be a waste of time to pitch.

Indeed.

In addition, the focus right now is on the big events, unfortunately.

I doubt Cass will ever meet Barbara again. If this does occur you can bet it she won't trust Cass anymore. :(

She only briefly referenced Cassandra once when dealing with the newly arrived Misfit. Hurt emotion, at least.

If Beechen really wants to 'redeem' himself (so far he's capable of), he HAS to at least have Cassandra and Barbara interact.

But no, I don't think he's even that competent from what we've read so far.

I'm merely being theoretical here. There are many ways to fix Cass creatively but they won't see the light of day unless editorial allows it.

With the changes Beechen made to stick with Batgirl #1, the character's essentially crippled.

Her disability with reading and difficulty talking has been eliminated now, however poorly. Nothing short of a retcon can restore that. Under Beechen, Cassandra lost one of her defining character traits.

And compromised the character's fundamental characteristic of being against killing. Several times, damn it.

I expect we'll never see it.

Unfortunately, no.

Which makes me hate Beechen even more.

[The Major]

The latter would require the writer to have previously read the series.
Lord knows DC won't assign that kind of writer to Cassandra any time so. .

True.

She knows about it. Gabrych wrote her reaction in the closing issues of Batgirl.

In detail. Every issue after that she's acted like it never happened.

She's on Wonder Woman and Secret Six. She's not on BoP, I think, either now or future solicits.

Gail would make a better writer on a solo Cass title since BOP isn't in her hands anymore.

Bedard could do wonders for Cass, though.

Indeed, since he was writing her in Outsiders.

Exactly.

If he came back.

Let me guess he left DC after Batgirl ended, right?

Such a shame. He's a great writer.

Indeed.

In addition, the focus right now is on the big events, unfortunately.

Yup.

And Silver Age characters.

She only briefly referenced Cassandra once when dealing with the newly arrived Misfit. Hurt emotion, at least.
It's good Gail at least tried to acknowledge it with Cass. Her funeral for Ted Kord was great, too.

If Beechen really wants to 'redeem' himself (so far he's capable of), he HAS to at least have Cassandra and Barbara interact.

But no, I don't think he's even that competent from what we've read so far.

Agreed.

With the changes Beechen made to stick with Batgirl #1, the character's essentially crippled.

Her disability with reading and difficulty talking has been eliminated now, however poorly. Nothing short of a retcon can restore that. Under Beechen, Cassandra lost one of her defining character traits.

And compromised the character's fundamental characteristic of being against killing. Several times, damn it.


That's what retcons are for, CBG.

Unfortunately, no.

Which makes me hate Beechen even more.

No writer's perfect. Cass just doesn't gel with him for some reason.

[CBG]

True.

In detail. Every issue after that she's acted like it never happened.

Well, she was mainly handled by Beechen following her series.

Gail would make a better writer on a solo Cass title since BOP isn't in her hands anymore.

Bedard could do wonders for Cass, though.

Indeed.

Exactly.

Let me guess he left DC after Batgirl ended, right?

Such a shame. He's a great writer.

He did great work with Cassandra when he took over. I liked the partnership between her and Tim while they were in Bludhaven.

Yup.

And Silver Age characters.

It's good Gail at least tried to acknowledge it with Cass. Her funeral for Ted Kord was great, too.

Agreed.

Agreed.

That's what retcons are for, CBG.

But at this point though, it'd be a mess, even if it were to restore her character; a fair number of retcons within the span of 2 years over the same character and her characteristics?

No writer's perfect. Cass just doesn't gel with him for some reason.

I disagree and would probably say the reverse is true; his vision and direction of the character doesn't suit the character at all.

[The Major]

CBG:

They'd have to nuke her continuity post-OYL ala Hal Jordan.

A huge retcon is the only way you'll get Cass back like she was or even a version which is has matured from her title as Kasumi. There's no getting round it.

This won't be happening any time soon. Don't worry about it upsetting current stories right after Beechan.

[CBG]

CBG:

They'd have to nuke her continuity post-OYL ala Hal Jordan.

A huge retcon is the only way you'll get Cass back she was.

This won't be happening any time soon.

I doubt it'd actually happen, unfortunately. Unless there's a writer brave enough to turn his/her back on Beechen and editorial and retcon all that away.

I'd be surprise if editorial would even pass it through.

Don't worry about it upsetting current stories right after Beechan.

All we have right now so far is Batman and the Outsiders.

[The Major]

I doubt it'd actually happen, unfortunately. Unless there's a writer brave enough to turn his/her back on Beechen and editorial and retcon all that away.

I'd be surprise if editorial would even pass it through.

It wouldn't.

Thats why its only theoretical. Major changes on DC's editorial would have to happen before any of what I mentioned would even be considered.

All we have right now so far is Batman and the Outsiders.
Dixon's gone. Who knows how long that title is going to around or Cass will be on it without him there.

[CBG]

It wouldn't.

Thats why its only theoretical. Major changes on DC's editorial would have to happen before any of what I mentioned would even be considered.

Indeed.

For worst, we're stuck with what Beechen left us.

Dixon's gone. Who knows how long that title is going to around or Cass will be on it without him there.

An Outsider is scheduled to die in a future issue, according to solicit.

Though, would DC be stupid enough to kill off Cassandra in Outsiders while she still is active in her mini?

[anrrd_2]

An Outsider is scheduled to die in a future issue, according to solicit.

Though, would DC be stupid enough to kill off Cassandra in Outsiders while she still is active in her mini?

they were stupid enough to give batgirl to beechen TWICE.. so anything is possible.


frankly i would love to see cass and steph move to another sub-city of gotham similar to bludhaven (but without all that icky nuclear waste:cwink:) and become there own almost completely seperated from batman (save for the big batfamily events) and fight there own villians and afew old gotham villians too. i would like cass to keep the title of batgirl but am not at all opposed to her taking the name kasumi...after beechen is done that may be the only option left. and spoiler would act as cassies robin (though perhaps not under that name)


of course theer would implications about there relationship in the DCU (harley/ivy, fire/ice, barbara/kara). but always very coy so as not to make it smutty

[Pluto]

Hey I could get into batgirl! I love her look!

[Pluto]

Hey I could get into batgirl! I love her look!

[CBG]

So I met up with Adam Hughes at the Comic Book Expo today. . .

Confirmed that the red-head on the DC Woman poster was Batwoman.

[The Major]

Anrdd_2:

Beechan wrote Cass three times.

1. Robin - OYL

2. Teen Titans - Titans East

3. Batgirl mini-series

[CBG]

I wish I can seriously ask DiDio what the heck were they thinking putting the writer who ruined the character back on her miniseries. . .

But, I'll be standing in line for Alex Ross.

[CBG]

From the Baltimoore ComiCon DC Nation Panel:

Showing a slide with a cover from the current Batgirl miniseries, DiDio remarked that at many conventions since the cancellation of her own series, fans had asked for the character’s return. Hinting that the miniseries’ sales were not very high at all, DiDio pointed that the requests for the character’s return at conventions combined with the low sales of said return are something that they have to struggle with, and makes them look with requests for a character’s return with more skepticism."

In addition to this, to answer the question I posed DiDio at the Canadian Comic Book Expo last month, he assigned the Cassandra Cain character because he believes Beechen to be a good writer.

For pity's sake, the man is ignoring the real reason why the book dropped so badly in sales -- the community doesn't support Beechen.

--

As for the Batwoman character, she's suppose to play a significant part in the "Battle for the Cowl" following R.I.P.

[fifthfiend]

Showing a slide with a cover from the current Batgirl miniseries, DiDio remarked that at many conventions since the cancellation of her own series, fans had asked for the character’s return. Hinting that the miniseries’ sales were not very high at all, DiDio pointed that the requests for the character’s return at conventions combined with the low sales of said return are something that they have to struggle with, and makes them look with requests for a character’s return with more skepticism."

Wow... Didio's an enormous ****ing douchebag.

[TheCorpulent1]

Seriously. Is it so inconceivable that people are dropping the current series because they don't like the content rather than the character? For christ's sake, ask some of the fans why they're not reading Batgirl.

[CBG]

When I posed the question to DiDio (why did you assign Beechen, who ruined the character, to the Batgirl mini?), he took that as offense (not sure whether to him, on Beechen's behalf, or both). He answered to me that he did so because Beechen's a good writer and he's doing what the fans are asking for: more Batgirl stories.

I could have argued with him further (and could have easily rebutted his answer), but I'd derail the panel real badly. The last thing I wanted to do was get banned from the Con, especially when I haven't got my Ross stuff signed yet.

[TheCorpulent1]

Jesus, I wouldn't have thought someone who interacts with fans as much as DiDio does could be so out of touch with what they want on this. At least when Joe Q blatantly ignores fans' wishes, he's got reasonably high sales on the comic in question to back him up.

[CBG]

Jesus, I wouldn't have thought someone who interacts with fans as much as DiDio does could be so out of touch with what they want on this.

Indeed.

At least when Joe Q blatantly ignores fans' wishes, he's got reasonably high sales on the comic in question to back him up.

I'm assuming you mean OMD/BND?

[TheCorpulent1]

And Avengers Disassembled/New Avengers and various other things. He's made a lot of decisions that weren't universally popular.