View Full Version : BatGirl...Just Because
anrrd_2
09-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Ravager would be an better choice,..................
I'm just saying.
a better choice to be batgirl? i think with her being so cavalier about killing that she would not get the job.
TheCorpulent1
09-09-2009, 02:23 PM
Bruce would totally kick her ass out of that suit when he came back, if Dick didn't beat him to it.
anrrd_2
09-09-2009, 02:24 PM
i'm betting thats what happens to steph when bruce comes back. she couldn't cut it as robin so why is bruce going to trust her as batgirl?
TheCorpulent1
09-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Nah, Steph's just incompetent, not a murderer. Batman's got a thing about killers.
anrrd_2
09-09-2009, 04:16 PM
she did try to kill zasz her first time out as robin...but shes learned since then.
BrianWilly
09-09-2009, 06:17 PM
Ravager? As Batgirl?
How illegal are your drugs, and where do you hide them?
TheCorpulent1
09-09-2009, 06:22 PM
Some people apparently like Ravager.
I don't know, it's weird to me too.
BrianWilly
09-09-2009, 06:25 PM
Ravager is the worst character in DC right now.
Yes, I said it. Without any hyperbole, any exaggeration, any cookies.
TheCorpulent1
09-09-2009, 06:31 PM
I haven't acquainted myself with enough of her recent material to judge that, although I know enough about her to know I don't like her.
Varient
09-09-2009, 09:46 PM
a better choice to be batgirl? i think with her being so cavalier about killing that she would not get the job.
This would be her Turn-around story.
Scenario:
She comes back to Titans tower and finds out that Kid Devil,... the guy who accepted her "as is" and was more than willing to jump her bones is dead doing the hero thing.
This effects her as nothing else had and she decides to change.
Since they are passing it around,... give her Cassies Bat-suit first.
Let her get whooped a couple of times because she's not using her swords before she adjusts,.. let her spank the current Robin and impress the current Batman to where he would "wait and See"
A seriously good set of issues follow as we get all the drama of Ravager style crime fighting.
TheCorpulent1
09-09-2009, 09:54 PM
I'm sure someone out there would like that. It wouldn't be me, but someone would.
BrianWilly
09-09-2009, 10:02 PM
Bart accepted her as much as Eddie did and all she did when he died was to become an even bigger b****. My mind boggles at how this character ever ended up with a second feature all to herself and her, heh, "Ravager style crime fighting."
Besides, what makes you think either Bruce or Dick would accept people purely based on their combat skills? Neither Tim or Barbara would have been accepted in that case.
WompuM
09-09-2009, 10:56 PM
I hate when they try and jam characters down our throats like that. I'm looking at you Magog.
I blame Diane Nelson.
I was a fan of Ravager back in her stint in TT OYL.
Then DC took her out of TT, put her in Terror Titans, and overblown and overdramatized the character.
Damn it.
Varient
09-10-2009, 08:03 AM
That's why "I'm just saying" It would be a nice twist,.. esp since she had fought Cassie and lost.
Midnite
09-10-2009, 02:53 PM
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/948030-picture_5_super.pnghttp://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/948112-batgirlturnssmall_super.jpg
Lee Garbett Blog (http://leegarbett.blogspot.com/) More designs there.
:argh: I want Cassandra back.
anrrd_2
09-10-2009, 03:10 PM
^*sigh* Me too midnite...me too. :(
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/deweese07/btascassie-1.jpg
TheCorpulent1
09-10-2009, 04:00 PM
Is that a manip of Babs from the cartoon?
anrrd_2
09-10-2009, 04:02 PM
ya its a BTAS cassie manip. i actually took it from a pic from the "mystery of the batwoman" movie. i know its kinda sketchy but i'm pretty proud of it cause its my first ever manip :)
TheCorpulent1
09-10-2009, 04:03 PM
Looks good. :up:
anrrd_2
09-10-2009, 04:05 PM
thanks :) i always thought it would be awesome to bring back BTAS for one more season. hour long episodes that fill in the gap between the end of the series and batman beyond. babs becomes oracle, cassie becomes batman. the whole damian wayne thing. make it alittle more grown up because the original audience is more grown up now. probably wont ever happen...but i can dream.
Kahoot
09-10-2009, 04:22 PM
I like these "Just Because" threads. I used to oogle a Power Girl one but it's been quite for a while. Are there any others I've not found yet?
Supposedly Cassandra Cain made a small teensy-weensy cameo in Justice League. I seen the supposed camoe, but I've never heard it confirmed.
anrrd_2
09-10-2009, 05:18 PM
her and tim in the future...they were just kids in grey jumpsuits. nothing special.
The_Mighty_Thor
09-10-2009, 05:22 PM
Supposedly Cassandra Cain made a small teensy-weensy cameo in Justice League. I seen the supposed camoe, but I've never heard it confirmed.
:huh: If you've seen it what more confirmation are you looking for?
Drakon
09-10-2009, 05:23 PM
I like these "Just Because" threads. I used to oogle a Power Girl one but it's been quite for a while. Are there any others I've not found yet?
I think there's Power Girl, like you said. This one, of course, and there's a Supergirl one. I think that might be it. I'm shocked there isn't a Harley Quinn..............gonna make that now.
:huh: If you've seen it what more confirmation are you looking for?
All I saw was an Asian teen girl.
That's barely a cameo.
The_Mighty_Thor
09-10-2009, 05:32 PM
I think there's Power Girl, like you said. This one, of course, and there's a Supergirl one. I think that might be it. I'm shocked there isn't a Harley Quinn..............gonna make that now.
Actually if you go back a couple of pages and check Canary fans sig you'll find most of them, but I think there's still a couple missing. There's one for just about everybody. Somebody even started one for Amanda Waller, mostly as a bad joke but it's out there. This is the only one where anybody discusses any thing though. The rest are just picture threads.
conjob_89
09-12-2009, 01:04 AM
Jim Lee?
Yeah, he prefers Barbara Gordon and tries to avoid drawing Cassandra Cain as Batgirl.
Supposedly, that's why Cassandra Cain is absent from Hush. Loeb either shared the sentiment, or acquisced to Lee.
Which is why I'm irked every time someone says Batman: Hush involved the entire Bat-family.
If you mee Lee Garbett, he doesn't like her?
Son of a. . .
It's Jim Lee. Ever since excluding Cass from Hush, it more-or-less forshadowed DC's anti-Cass BS.
That and i've long since declared Beechan hunting season after OYL. *breaks out gun*
TheCorpulent1
09-12-2009, 09:13 AM
I think every Cass fan has. I can't even read comics with Cass anymore because the residual bulls*** of Beechen's run is still on her. She doesn't feel like the same character she was before OYL. :o
What is needed for her is a writer WHO KNOWS THE CHARACTER and has good plans for her.
Look at Sterling Gates on Supergirl. Before him, the title was atrocious, HORRIBLE to stomach.
His first issue onboard, he wrote a miracle.
anrrd_2
09-12-2009, 12:58 PM
bring back Anderson Gabrych or Kelly Pucket to the title. someone who helped make her the amazing character she was.
maybe send her to her own sub city of gotham...like a new bludhaven or something. Steph could become Cassie's Robin. Redemption for both characters.
Supposedly, Lee Garbett disclosed that he has plans for Cassandra later down the Batgirl book.
With the bad history she had prior, I'll believe it when I see it.
But, going by her first appearance in the issue. . . it's definitely the wrong bloody foot.
Kitsune
09-12-2009, 06:22 PM
It's Jim Lee. Ever since excluding Cass from Hush, it more-or-less forshadowed DC's anti-Cass BS.
That and i've long since declared Beechan hunting season after OYL. *breaks out gun*
Be vewwy vewwy qwwiet.....
Jumpin' Jack
09-13-2009, 12:57 PM
People, people! There hasn't been a pic for about 20 pages, only discussion and this is supposed to be a Just Because thread!
TheCorpulent1
09-13-2009, 04:10 PM
Well, there's only so much borderline-porn of Batgirl on the internet...
JustBecause thread IS a discussion thread!
Jumpin' Jack
09-14-2009, 08:12 AM
weren't they suppossed to be about pictures of good looking superheroes and villianesses
Tron Bonne
09-14-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm think that they pretty much become whatever the regular posters in them want them to be
TheCorpulent1
09-14-2009, 09:54 AM
weren't they suppossed to be about pictures of good looking superheroes and villianesses
Originally, I guess, but it seems kind of silly to have separate threads for discussion and pictures.
anrrd_2
09-14-2009, 11:43 AM
People, people! There hasn't been a pic for about 20 pages, only discussion and this is supposed to be a Just Because thread!
i posted a pic like 3 pages back...its not the psuedo-porn your probably looking for. but a picture non the less:cwink:
I didn't even know there was a separate thread.
Varient
09-16-2009, 08:13 AM
Bart accepted her as much as Eddie did and all she did when he died was to become an even bigger b****. My mind boggles at how this character ever ended up with a second feature all to herself and her, heh, "Ravager style crime fighting."
Besides, what makes you think either Bruce or Dick would accept people purely based on their combat skills? Neither Tim or Barbara would have been accepted in that case.
Sorry for the delay on comeback:
We have Tim Drake/Wayne going "red Robin",... (Willingness to cross the line to get results), we had azreal as the previous batman - so why can't we have a mildly bloodthirsty batgurl?
BrianWilly
09-16-2009, 08:41 AM
Because it's stupid? If you want that kind of thing, God knows why, you can just read Ravager's own stories. There's no need to bring it to Batgirl. Rose doesn't deserve the title, she never did, and no one in their right mind would give it to her.
Varient
09-16-2009, 10:04 AM
Because it's stupid? If you want that kind of thing, God knows why, you can just read Ravager's own stories. There's no need to bring it to Batgirl. Rose doesn't deserve the title, she never did, and no one in their right mind would give it to her.
No doubt,...
But the two I wanted are not in the running,.. and the one I would've accepted w/o a qualm wasn't even considered.
(In order - Barbara / Cassie / Flamebird.)
http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5965&stc=1&d=1253113355http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5966&stc=1&d=1253113402
Manic
09-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Yes, let's have Barbara become Batgirl again. Then Dick can become Robin, Wally becomes Kid Flash, Donna starts calling herself Wonder Girl again, and we can pretend everything that happened to these characters since the 1970's never happened.
By the way, in case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic.
Varient
09-16-2009, 12:23 PM
Yes, let's have Barbara become Batgirl again. Then Dick can become Robin, Wally becomes Kid Flash, Donna starts calling herself Wonder Girl again, and we can pretend everything that happened to these characters since the 1970's never happened.
By the way, in case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic.
hey hey HEY!
I'm the one who wants Ravager as Bat Girl since I can't have my first three choices,... even better -
Let Barbara be BAT WOMAN, flame bird become the new Bat girl, And Cassie try on the Huntress gear.
Manic
09-16-2009, 12:47 PM
But what will happen to Steph, Helena, and Kate? And with Ravager as Batgirl, what will happen to my respect for DC?
Varient
09-16-2009, 01:14 PM
But what will happen to Steph, Helena, and Kate? And with Ravager as Batgirl, what will happen to my respect for DC?
Easy answers:
I really think "Spoiler" should continue to exist, Helena is ready to be bumped up to some other hero,.. heck,.. Make her the next "Doc Midnight?" and Kate can go get some real training.
I have issue with her being in ***** class as far as crimefighting w/o the YEARS of training and experience. CAT WOMAN would've been a more believable BATWOMAN than this "Out from left field wide-hipped hussy.
Manic
09-16-2009, 01:27 PM
Helena is ready to be bumped up to some other hero,.. heck,.. Make her the next "Doc Midnight?"
Do you mean Doctor Mid-Nite, or someone with a similar name? Because if that's what you mean, then...
1. What happened to Pieter?
2. When did Helena become a doctor in addition to an English teacher?
Drakon
09-16-2009, 03:42 PM
I hate to repeat myself, but I'll say it again. There is no conceivable reason for Babs to ever take up the Batgirl moniker ever again. Even if she were to somehow Joe Swanson into a working set of legs and resume physical crimefighting, she's worked her ass off too hard as Oracle, a hero under her own right to go back to just being a female counterpart of Batman.
Manic
09-16-2009, 03:47 PM
If Babs ever got to walking again, I'd like to see her expand her role as Oracle to include doing some of her own recon and spying.
TheCorpulent1
09-16-2009, 09:43 PM
Yeah, just have her put together a costume around an actual mask version of her big Oracle-head avatar and keep calling herself Oracle. The name "Oracle" isn't intrinsically tied to the idea of being wheelchair-bound.
Regardless, some Bab fans want her to return.
Also, big plans for our non-lethal assassin?
I call bull unless finaly proven otherwise.
BrianWilly
09-17-2009, 10:21 AM
It was a pretty good issue. It seems that Miller really is capable of writing genuine, funny, engaging teen stuff when he's not being hobbled by being on the Teen Titans.
Still, Babs being so bitter all the time got old before it ever began. Is she going to accuse every single girl who ever puts on a costume of having a death wish? It's like her one and only comeback for everyone. It's annoying. The sooner this arc finishes and she ****ing stops doing that, the better.
I did like the little signs of her almost instinctively going into "Oracle Mode" when talking to Steph; she really really wants to be helpful, even when she doesn't.
anrrd_2
09-17-2009, 01:28 PM
where the heck is misfit while all of this is happening? probably waiting in line for her own batgirl mini whilst Cassie continues to be neglected :(
Barbara being bitter doesn't sit well with me, reading it. . . since she already dealt with it prior.
Cosmic
09-20-2009, 05:21 PM
It was a pretty good issue. It seems that Miller really is capable of writing genuine, funny, engaging teen stuff when he's not being hobbled by being on the Teen Titans.
Still, Babs being so bitter all the time got old before it ever began. Is she going to accuse every single girl who ever puts on a costume of having a death wish? It's like her one and only comeback for everyone. It's annoying. The sooner this arc finishes and she ****ing stops doing that, the better.
I did like the little signs of her almost instinctively going into "Oracle Mode" when talking to Steph; she really really wants to be helpful, even when she doesn't.
I like the way Stephanie's double life is portrayed. I also like the way the relationship between Barbara and Stephanie is developing. I appreciate what they're trying to do. I think there's potential for some good stories.
The only problem is, I'm not a fan of The Killing Joke, and how it has affected mainstream continuity. I don't want to read about post-TKJ Babs Gordon. I do like Steph, and how she's shown trying to balance her personal life with her vigilantism. I'll probably stick around for the next issue, at least.
It's both the Peter Parker + Batman Beyond formula I'm reading here.
ChrisBaleBatman
09-23-2009, 09:44 AM
I always thought Batman Beyond kinda just was the Peter Parker formula.
And I agree. Babs has become a viable character with her Oracle alter ego. I think Batgirl should never be an option with her ever again, even if she can regain the use of her legs.
She appears to be way too important as Oracle by being the information gatherer for the DCU.
I always thought Batman Beyond kinda just was the Peter Parker formula.
Then who was the old mentor Bruce Wayne to Peter Parker?
anrrd_2
09-23-2009, 11:07 PM
uncle ben? aunt may, sort of....
Tron Bonne
09-24-2009, 06:06 AM
Batman Beyond isn't the Peter Parker formula. The Peter Parker formula would be closer to something like a freak accident giving someone huge responsibility. Batman Beyond is an inversion of the Batman formula, punk of a kid who loses a loved one in a seemingly random act of violence, and eventually decides to fight crime so that type of stuff doesn't happen again.
Manic
09-24-2009, 06:14 AM
Batman Beyond is basically the Robin formula, except this time Bruce turned his teenage protege into the next Batman.
Tron Bonne
09-24-2009, 06:16 AM
Well, yeah I guess that kind of makes sense. Never thought of it like that before
I just bought and read the first two Batgirl issues. I have to say i rather enjoy Stephanie as the new Batgirl.
BrianWilly
10-14-2009, 06:55 PM
Well, you all know me; I got a great kick out of issue three. I thought it was totally spiffy.
Could someone give me the spoilers for Batgirl #3? I don't read the serie but the preview showed Scarecrow so i'm intriqued. :)
O.J. Pimpson
10-17-2009, 08:55 AM
I hate to repeat myself, but I'll say it again. There is no conceivable reason for Babs to ever take up the Batgirl moniker ever again. Even if she were to somehow Joe Swanson into a working set of legs and resume physical crimefighting, she's worked her ass off too hard as Oracle, a hero under her own right to go back to just being a female counterpart of Batman.
She started out as a female counterpart of Batman, but she developed her own character through Oracle. I, personally, never stopped looking at her as Batgirl: everything from the reason she became Batgirl to how she shaped the character made her stand out on her own. I wouldn't mind if she went back to being Batgirl. All I care about is if they give her a good story on how and why she decided to resume the old role. I don't want to give a story where her only reason for becoming Batgirl again was, "I just felt like it".
Bryan Q. Miller on "Batgirl" (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23337)
So many things I want to call bull**** on in there.
BrianWilly
10-17-2009, 05:46 PM
Jeebuz, this guy seems like he peruses internet forums 24/7 or something; he certainly seems more aware of what fans have been saying about his book than most other writers, right down to the "hey what about Blackest Night Babs" stuff.
Maybe he's watching us right now. Like, right now.
:ninja:
Cosmic
10-17-2009, 08:25 PM
On Batgirl #2 and #3:
Stephanie's mother believes that she's given up vigilantism for good. How does Steph feel about the fact that she's deceiving her mother...particularly over something that could potentially endanger both of their lives? How does Barbara feel about that? How does Barbara justify enabling Steph in engaging in this extremely dangerous lifestyle (and therefore joining in on the deception of Steph's mom)? Barbara and Steph both acknowledge that Steph's behavior is reckless and obsessive. She's suffering from some kind of psychosis, and they're both aware of it. Barbara's actions seem irresponsible, especially considering what she's been through.
I can accept Steph's compulsive disorder, or whatever it is. But it's not explored in any detail, whatsoever. It seems like just a continuation of the trend of making heroes crazy and conflicted to make them seem complex. There's absolutely nothing being done with this aspect of her character, after three months. It's just something that gets lip service in order to remind us that it's there. But it doesn't really factor in to the rest of the story in any significant way. Steph's motivations in general are still unclear to me.
Why am I still buying this? I do still like the art. There's lots of action, and it looks good. The covers are pretty cool. The dialogue is good, sometimes. I don't hate the new costume. I would have kept Cassandra's old, torn-up costume, and just changed the cowl a bit so that you could see her eyes. Overall, the story is very mediocre and flawed. I think it can be salvaged, though.
Jeebuz, this guy seems like he peruses internet forums 24/7 or something; he certainly seems more aware of what fans have been saying about his book than most other writers, right down to the "hey what about Blackest Night Babs" stuff.
Maybe he's watching us right now. Like, right now.
:ninja:
If he is, I have this to say to him:
**** you for your handling of Casssandra, and dismissing the Spoiler-Cassandra dynamic. **** you.
BrianWilly
10-18-2009, 05:23 PM
Barbara and Steph both acknowledge that Steph's behavior is reckless and obsessive. She's suffering from some kind of psychosis, and they're both aware of it. Barbara's actions seem irresponsible, especially considering what she's been through.
I can accept Steph's compulsive disorder, or whatever it is. But it's not explored in any detail, whatsoever. It seems like just a continuation of the trend of making heroes crazy and conflicted to make them seem complex. There's absolutely nothing being done with this aspect of her character, after three months. It's just something that gets lip service in order to remind us that it's there. But it doesn't really factor in to the rest of the story in any significant way. Steph's motivations in general are still unclear to me.How are you getting the impression that this is some kind of mental disorder? How is it more psychotic than what Dick and Tim and Damian have always done? Barbara calls it that in the second issue because she was being a complete b****, and has a well-rounded history of being a complete b**** to younger heroes. She said the same exact thing to Cassandra and Misfit in the past. In this issue she realizes she was wrong, obviously.
The truth is that Steph's mindset is no different from the hundreds of others out there who risk their lives to help out others. In fact, the only difference here is that despite being told throughout her entire character history "that she’s not good enough, that she doesn’t belong, and that nothing she can do will change that, she keeps going" because she wants that badly to be a hero. So yeah, maybe that's an obsession, and of course it's reckless and dangerous. But tell that every single superhero in this entire universe.
Obviously, the situation with her mother will be dealt with at some point. How many years did Tim Drake deceive his parents without anyone really making a big deal out of it? (Not that that ended up particularly well :awesome:) How old was he when that situation was finally dealt with? Steph is older than that now. Frankly, the girl is in college, she's a freaking adult at this point. She might need her mother's understanding, but she certainly doesn't need her permission.
Any chance you lads could tell me what happens with Scarecrow? :) Does he get thrown to jail or he still serving Black Mask?
BrianWilly
10-18-2009, 05:33 PM
He's just in jail. He's definitely still working for Black Mask, though; Steph mentions it specifically, because of her own ties to Black Mask.
Ah so he got his ass kicked. :D thanks dude!
hippie_hunter
10-18-2009, 07:04 PM
If he is, I have this to say to him:
**** you for your handling of Casssandra, and dismissing the Spoiler-Cassandra dynamic. **** you.
I'm not going to criticize his handling of Cassandra until she eventually comes back in some shape or form. Right now based on her recently butchered characterizations, I can understand her wanting to leave. If she was still the same person before OYL, then I would criticize. But right now I'll wait and see.
Cosmic
10-18-2009, 11:36 PM
Bruce and Dick saw their families murdered. Tim and Damian...I can't even take either of them seriously. Both of those characters were just pulled straight out of somebody's butt. Steph...sneaked into the Batcave because she wanted to be Robin so badly.
I just think that until Steph moves out of her mom's house, her business is also her mom's business, considering it's something that could get both of them killed. It doesn't matter how old she is, or how far along in school she is. I think the fact that she continues to lie to her mom about this makes both her and Barbara look bad.
BrianWilly
10-19-2009, 12:40 AM
Bruce and Dick saw their families murdered. Tim and Damian...I can't even take either of them seriously. Both of those characters were just pulled straight out of somebody's butt. Steph...sneaked into the Batcave because she wanted to be Robin so badly.What? No, she originally became the Spoiler because she wanted to stop her father, the Cluemaster, from becoming a criminal again, after which she just continued to fight crime. I just don't get where you're getting the psychotic part from, much less the idea that something needs to be done about it. If it's a psychosis to feel a calling to fight crime in spite of the risks, then every single hero in this universe is psychotic.
I just think that until Steph moves out of her mom's house, her business is also her mom's business, considering it's something that could get both of them killed. It doesn't matter how old she is, or how far along in school she is. I think the fact that she continues to lie to her mom about this makes both her and Barbara look bad.Perhaps. I still don't see how it makes them look any worse than, again, every single other character who's ever had a secret identity, other than the "usual" vice of lying to your loved ones. It's not even like her mother doesn't know she used to be a crimefighter. And c'mon, she hasn't even officially been Batgirl for a full issue yet; obviously it's going to be addressed further down the line.
Drakon
10-19-2009, 12:42 AM
What? No, she originally became the Spoiler because she wanted to stop her father, the Cluemaster, from becoming a criminal again, after which she just continued to fight crime. If it's a psychosis to feel a calling to fight crime in spite of the risks, then every single hero in this universe is psychotic.
To be fair, a lot of them can be considered psychotic for other reasons.
hippie_hunter
10-19-2009, 12:48 AM
Bruce and Dick saw their families murdered. Tim and Damian...I can't even take either of them seriously. Both of those characters were just pulled straight out of somebody's butt. Steph...sneaked into the Batcave because she wanted to be Robin so badly.
Tim, Damian, and Steph are all pretty damn good characters. It's just a shame that they keep having Steph constantly filling in the role of someone else until they return. I'm sorry that you want everyone in the Batfamily to be the same with no differences whatsoever.
With Tim, he wasn't driven by grief like Dick or Bruce. He did it because he felt he could make a difference and his own developed sense of justice that wasn't created by tragedy. And unlike Dick or Jason there was no father/son dynamic between Robin or Batman, it was strictly a teacher/student relationship due to the fact that Tim had his own parents. Even when his mother was killed, he still refused to be just like Bruce and Dick. Of course then Identity Crisis killed his dad and Infinite Crisis killed his stepmom completely changing things.
With Damien you actually have someone who is Bruce's son. And since Dick is Batman, you have a brotherly relationship between the two (since the two technically are brothers in a legal sense). It's a reverse of the Batman and Robin dynamic where Batman is the lighter character while Robin is the darker one. And you have Dick trying to mold Damien into a good hearted person.
Stephanie was just pure filler though. Sure Damien technically is the fifth Robin. But I think you need to be Robin for more than three issues of Robin, one issue of Detective Comics, one issue of Batgirl, and one issue of Teen Titans to really count.
I just think that until Steph moves out of her mom's house, her business is also her mom's business, considering it's something that could get both of them killed. It doesn't matter how old she is, or how far along in school she is. I think the fact that she continues to lie to her mom about this makes both her and Barbara look bad.
Tim lied to his parents as well, but at least his father eventually found out. Stephanie's mom knows that she was Spoiler. Thanks to One More Day, Spider-Man has continued to lie to Aunt May about his adventures for at least 13 years comic book time.
BrianWilly
10-19-2009, 12:52 AM
To be fair, a lot of them can be considered psychotic for other reasons.Well ya can't go out at night in leathers and spandex without having some serious ****ing issues :awesome:, and I'm not saying Stephanie doesn't have those in spades. But "death wish" is pretty much pushing it to the breaking point.
hippie_hunter
10-19-2009, 12:55 AM
Well ya can't go out at night in leathers and spandex without having some serious ****ing issues :awesome:, and I'm not saying Stephanie doesn't have those in spades. But "death wish" is pretty much pushing it to the breaking point.
Well maybe Cosmic wants everyone in the Batfamily to just be a bunch of emo *****es and huddle around in a circle going "Waaaahhh my parents are dead"
And fight crime like this
http://www.pvponline.com/my-parents-are-dead/
O.J. Pimpson
10-19-2009, 08:21 AM
Well ya can't go out at night in leathers and spandex without having some serious ****ing issues :awesome:, and I'm not saying Stephanie doesn't have those in spades. But "death wish" is pretty much pushing it to the breaking point.
I have to agree with you on this one.
TheCorpulent1
10-20-2009, 02:20 PM
Remember when Cassandra had a subconscious death wish? Ah, memories...
Varient
10-20-2009, 02:25 PM
Well ya can't go out at night in leathers and spandex without having some serious ****ing issues :awesome:, and I'm not saying Stephanie doesn't have those in spades. But "death wish" is pretty much pushing it to the breaking point.
Pardon:
But back when I frequented the meat markets (bars/disco's/malls) Too many females ran around all night in leather and spandex,............
An aside of the occasional with stilletto heels and piercings in *ahem* different places,.. I found them to be well rounded and somewhat sane.
V.
Laplace_Zombie
10-20-2009, 03:41 PM
Bruce and Dick saw their families murdered. Tim and Damian...I can't even take either of them seriously. Both of those characters were just pulled straight out of somebody's butt. Steph...sneaked into the Batcave because she wanted to be Robin so badly.
Wasn't Tim the first one who "wanted to be Robin so badly"?
TheCorpulent1
10-20-2009, 04:17 PM
Pretty much. Dick wanted a new family and Jason wanted the Batmobile's wheels.
Cosmic
10-21-2009, 12:31 AM
Okay, I've been at work for the past two days. I can't access the Hype from there, anymore. But while I'm home for a minute, I just want to clarify a few things:
1) I don't follow the current Spider-Man comics. The character I grew up reading about kept his vigilantism hidden from Aunt May, but stopped short of lying to her face about it. To me, that's a different situation from Steph's mom knowing about her vigilantism from before, and being led to believe that she's not doing it anymore.
2) I don't want the whole Batfamily to be the same. I don't really care about the Batfamily. If Batman had no sidekick, then that would be just fine. Oh, and I wouldn't describe Batman as "emo." Batman is probably as far from "emo" as one can get.
Remember when Cassandra had a subconscious death wish? Ah, memories...
Good ol' days. . .
hippie_hunter
10-21-2009, 04:30 PM
1) I don't follow the current Spider-Man comics. The character I grew up reading about kept his vigilantism hidden from Aunt May, but stopped short of lying to her face about it. To me, that's a different situation from Steph's mom knowing about her vigilantism from before, and being led to believe that she's not doing it anymore.
It's wrong that Steph is lying to her mom just like it was wrong for Tim to lie to his parents and wrong for Spider-Man to hide from Aunt May that he's Spider-Man. It's something that should be dealt with and probably will since Stephanie's mom knows that she was both Spoiler and a Robin.
2) I don't want the whole Batfamily to be the same. I don't really care about the Batfamily. If Batman had no sidekick, then that would be just fine. Oh, and I wouldn't describe Batman as "emo." Batman is probably as far from "emo" as one can get.
But why does tragedy have to fuel every member of the Batfamily? Why can't they just simply do so because it's right in the case of Tim and Steph or because they're trying to mold them into a better person in the case of Jason and Damien.
TheCorpulent1
10-21-2009, 05:08 PM
Apparently they just can't, if Tim is any indication. I predict angst for Steph soon.
BrianWilly
10-21-2009, 06:24 PM
Like it hasn't already been thered and doned with her? I hope Miller isn't going that way at least for a while.
...it's gonna be weird typing "Miller" and not be thinking "sperm bank."
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6408/barbaragordonbatgirl567.gif (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/barbaragordonbatgirl567.gif/)
What is Craig doing these days?
fifthfiend
10-23-2009, 01:20 PM
2) I don't want the whole Batfamily to be the same. I don't really care about the Batfamily. If Batman had no sidekick, then that would be just fine. Oh, and I wouldn't describe Batman as "emo." Batman is probably as far from "emo" as one can get.
I would think having friends, a stable relationship, a job that you enjoy that you perform publicly and during daylight hours and hobbies that don't involve beating the **** out of muggers because you're upset about some **** that happened 30 years ago would be as far from emo as you can get.
Cosmic
10-24-2009, 12:04 PM
It's wrong that Steph is lying to her mom just like it was wrong for Tim to lie to his parents and wrong for Spider-Man to hide from Aunt May that he's Spider-Man. It's something that should be dealt with and probably will since Stephanie's mom knows that she was both Spoiler and a Robin.
I totally disagree. Hiding a secret is not the same as a bald-faced lie. And Peter was in a different situation. "With great power comes great responsibility" became an oath that needed to be fulfilled, and May's fragile health had to be considered (moreso than her disapproval of Spider-Man).
We know that Steph doesn't have to worry about her mom having a stroke and dying upon finding out about her escapades, because she's relatively young and healthy, and at this point, she already knows, anyway. She's now being led to believe that they've ended. If Steph doesn't move out, then yes, it should be dealt with in some other way.
But why does tragedy have to fuel every member of the Batfamily? Why can't they just simply do so because it's right in the case of Tim and Steph or because they're trying to mold them into a better person in the case of Jason and Damien.I doesn't have to. I'm just saying that she's on a different level than Batman and Robin, and that's okay. But I am disappointed that after three issues, subtitled "Point of New Origin," she still doesn't have a clearly established origin story.
I would think having friends, a stable relationship, a job that you enjoy that you perform publicly and during daylight hours and hobbies that don't involve beating the **** out of muggers because you're upset about some **** that happened 30 years ago would be as far from emo as you can get.
Are you serious? He has all the friends he needs. In his earliest stories, he was engaged. He may not have anything going on now, but it wasn't always that way. Besides, he's filthy rich, remember? He can have all the friends and romances that he wants. His day job is being a multi-millionaire industrialist, and his hobbies can include whatever you can imagine. And he doesn't fight crime to get revenge, or to sort out his emotional baggage. It sounds to me like you're getting Batman mixed up with the Punisher.
hippie_hunter
10-24-2009, 10:10 PM
I totally disagree. Hiding a secret is not the same as a bald-faced lie. And Peter was in a different situation. "With great power comes great responsibility" became an oath that needed to be fulfilled, and May's fragile health had to be considered (moreso than her disapproval of Spider-Man).
We know that Steph doesn't have to worry about her mom having a stroke and dying upon finding out about her escapades, because she's relatively young and healthy, and at this point, she already knows, anyway. She's now being led to believe that they've ended. If Steph doesn't move out, then yes, it should be dealt with in some other way.
But Aunt May has been proven that she can handle Peter being Spider-Man. The only reason why she doesn't know is because Peter had someone erase it from her memory without her consent.
Which now that I think about it is worse than lying :dry:
Cosmic
10-25-2009, 07:24 PM
I haven't read that story. I don't keep up with new Spider-Man comics, anymore, largely because of stuff like this.
CanaryFan
01-05-2010, 06:58 PM
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/aaa/Batgirl_Black_by_Tarzman.jpg
Cassandra Cain still unfortunately in limbo.
anrrd_2
01-06-2010, 09:27 AM
^ tis a sad sad thing :(
batpawn
01-06-2010, 10:59 AM
Cassandra Cain... Just Because she's my one and only Batgirl.
http://brenkstertools.com/wp-content/gallery/batman/902449-page_39_super.jpg
http://brenkstertools.com/wp-content/gallery/batman/926828-cassandra_cain__batgirl__picture_36_super.jpg
http://brenkstertools.com/wp-content/gallery/batman/926826-cassandra_cain__batgirl__picture_35_super.jpg
http://brenkstertools.com/wp-content/gallery/batman/805001-2007cassiecaincardcs9yt3ryan_sook_super.jpg
God...I miss her.
anrrd_2
01-06-2010, 12:19 PM
Cassandra Cain... Just Because she's my one and only Batgirl.
]
God...I miss her.
no sir, because she is the one and only batgirl, PERIOD:ikyn i love Steph and think her run as batgirl has been good, but she belong under the purple hood of the spoiler. not wearing the cowl
i miss her too :(
conjob_89
01-07-2010, 09:31 PM
no sir, because she is the one and only batgirl, PERIOD:ikyn i love Steph and think her run as batgirl has been good, but she belong under the purple hood of the spoiler. not wearing the cowl
i miss her too :(
I concur. :csad:
Cassandra Cain can grow beyond Batgirl, though.
I rather have her written well. You don't necessarily need to have her as Batgirl again to do that.
TheCorpulent1
01-08-2010, 07:22 AM
She already has another identity she could easily use: Kasumi.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/923188-kasumi_super.jpg
http://brenkstertools.com/wp-content/gallery/batman/805001-2007cassiecaincardcs9yt3ryan_sook_super.jpg:up:
She already has another identity she could easily use: Kasumi.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/923188-kasumi_super.jpg
In Justice League Elite.
As if editorial and any current DC writer will remember that for the good of Cassandra Cain.
batpawn
01-09-2010, 02:45 PM
Cassandra Cain can grow beyond Batgirl, though.
I rather have her written well. You don't necessarily need to have her as Batgirl again to do that.
Call me a spoilt brat that got too much attention by his mama but still isn't happy about anything in his life, but I just don't want her to be anything else but Batgirl.
Please, don't get me wrong. I absolutely agree with you on the point that she could easily redeem herself and could become something 'bigger' than just the Batman's female sidekick. But she worked so unbelievably good in that role, that she - in some aspects - already 'were' more than just a sidekick. More than just 'a' Batgirl, she was 'the' Batgirl. Through and through. That made her character so interesting to me, the fact that she owned that part to a level, where she even made the Bathirl persona to a hero of her own.
The fact that she trained so hard to be 'perfect', to be even better than Batman himself (which you could easily argue, that she might have already been better), so she could - one day - represent the caped crusader in the case of his, unfortunate, death (ah, the sweet smell of irony) really helped making her stories so damn good the way they turned out to be. And pushed her to a point where she turned out to even become my favorite character in the 'Gotham' universe.
But what made her most interesting to me was the simple fact, that from all of his sidekicks, she was the one that is the most similar to Bruce. Both of them know how it feels like to live a life dedicated to voilence, both of them had to find out the hard way that violence, it self, can be a language of it's own. Most of all, the childhood of both of them was filled with violence, pain, anger and fear. But while Bruce dedicated his life to these ugly, ugly things in order to finde a 'sense' in his life, after every bit of sense was ripped out by two bullets, Cassandra never knew anything else. That's how she grew up, and the reason why her chemistry to the Caped Crusader was so brilliant.
I just hope that DC Comics might get a wake up call and put her back into the black outfit. The day she will become the Batgirl again will be a glorious one. If this isn't the case, I 'will' be sad, but I can live with it. As long as they don't keep on ruining her character the way they did. Just give her a chance, folks. She deserves it.
P.S.: Yeah, I'm dead serious. The Kelley Puckett / Damion Scott run on 'Batgirl' was my personal favorite 'DC' (not counting Vertigo - just for the book) comicbook series of the last decade. Kiss me, Santa. :D
P.P.S.: I have yet to read the Stephanie Brown Batgirl series, since it hasn't been released in trades so far, which is (besides a translated version of it) the only way I could possibly get it around here. After managing my anger issues about the - ridiculously - out of character portrayal of Cassie in the first issue (again, the irony), I will definitely check it out to get my own view on things (and, of course, since some reviews say that it isn't that bad so far). But I feel like it will all boil down to 'while the stories are fairly decent and quite enjoyable, I still think Steph should be either dead or wearing her Spoiler-outfit, since the stories would work with the latter as well'. I'll see.
Check CBR's top female characters of the decade. Cassandra Cain made #4.
Kate Kane made #1, which I disagree with. Not because she's Batwoman (and arguably booted out Cassandra as Batgirl), but because of how recent she's been.
Cite 52 all you want, but she was not a full character to me until Rucka's work FINALLY hit stands
Manic
01-09-2010, 08:27 PM
Yeah, I didn't like Kate that much until she took over as the star of Detective Comics. That's way too recent for her to be the #1 female comic book character of the decade.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2sagmme.jpg
Dixon overestimated there, IMO. She's not THAT socially ignorant.
TheCorpulent1
01-11-2010, 09:28 AM
She's not much of a nudist as far as I know, either.
sto_vo_kor_2000
01-11-2010, 01:53 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/2sagmme.jpg
Where was that from??
TheCorpulent1
01-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Outsiders.
anrrd_2
01-13-2010, 10:24 AM
I was talking to the owner of my local comic shop who said the DC's plan is to create a "team batgirl" of sorts... bringing in all the characters who have ever worn the costume and headed up by bab's (of course). I'm pretty excited to see Cass, Steph, helena, betty, and maybe even charlie all in there own variations of the batgirl costume on a team together :)
I'll believe it when I see it.
Manic
01-13-2010, 04:20 PM
You'll excuse me if I don't take the word of a guy off the internet who heard from a guy.
batpawn
01-14-2010, 06:06 AM
Beisdes, that doesn't even sound... well... interesting. o_Ô
anrrd_2
01-14-2010, 10:07 AM
no worries... even i am taking it with a grain of salt. but as a fan of the characters i hope he is correct.
Freedom4
03-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Fat chance of it happening now that Babs is putting her Birds of Prey back together for the new book!
They could reintroduce Cassandra by having Barbara using the Birds to find and reach out to her.
Lord knows, since CC is in character limbo now.
anrrd_2
03-17-2010, 08:01 AM
^whatever brings Cassandra back (NOT as a villian), i am down for.
conjob_89
03-18-2010, 11:22 AM
Call me a spoilt brat that got too much attention by his mama but still isn't happy about anything in his life, but I just don't want her to be anything else but Batgirl.
Please, don't get me wrong. I absolutely agree with you on the point that she could easily redeem herself and could become something 'bigger' than just the Batman's female sidekick. But she worked so unbelievably good in that role, that she - in some aspects - already 'were' more than just a sidekick. More than just 'a' Batgirl, she was 'the' Batgirl. Through and through. That made her character so interesting to me, the fact that she owned that part to a level, where she even made the Bathirl persona to a hero of her own.
The fact that she trained so hard to be 'perfect', to be even better than Batman himself (which you could easily argue, that she might have already been better), so she could - one day - represent the caped crusader in the case of his, unfortunate, death (ah, the sweet smell of irony) really helped making her stories so damn good the way they turned out to be. And pushed her to a point where she turned out to even become my favorite character in the 'Gotham' universe.
But what made her most interesting to me was the simple fact, that from all of his sidekicks, she was the one that is the most similar to Bruce. Both of them know how it feels like to live a life dedicated to voilence, both of them had to find out the hard way that violence, it self, can be a language of it's own. Most of all, the childhood of both of them was filled with violence, pain, anger and fear. But while Bruce dedicated his life to these ugly, ugly things in order to finde a 'sense' in his life, after every bit of sense was ripped out by two bullets, Cassandra never knew anything else. That's how she grew up, and the reason why her chemistry to the Caped Crusader was so brilliant.
I just hope that DC Comics might get a wake up call and put her back into the black outfit. The day she will become the Batgirl again will be a glorious one. If this isn't the case, I 'will' be sad, but I can live with it. As long as they don't keep on ruining her character the way they did. Just give her a chance, folks. She deserves it.
Hear, Hear! :word:
fifthfiend
03-18-2010, 11:29 AM
I still say the best outcome for her is she's been off in Tibet meditating for however long while an evil, stupid clone does evil stupid **** under her name.
It's not that difficult to bring her back. I wrote out a whole story pitch for the character after OYL and TT.
Real problem is, is whether the other Bat-writers will accomodate their story plans for Cassandra.
And we all see how that is going.
hippie_hunter
03-18-2010, 11:49 AM
I'm typically against character regression (like Red Arrow going back to Arsenal, Lex Luthor becoming a businessman again, and undoing the Spider-Man marriage), but Cassandra Cain going back to being Batgirl and completely forgetting about Beechen's work asides from her adoption by Bruce Wayne is something I won't complain about.
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