The Infinite Crisis Thread (SPOILERS)

[BrianWilly]

Personally, I think it's all about as complicated as Marvel's origins of Cable, Rachel Grey-Summers, X-Man, Valeria Richards, etc; it's really just one of those things where you have to have the patience to read a lot of synopses and ask a lot of questions. Again, I can't stress enough just how beneficial moviepoopshoot.com's Comic 101 (part 1 (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/8.html), part 2 (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/9.html)) editorials have been to me; I've never read a single page of Crisis on Infinite Earths until about two weeks ago and long before then I felt like I already understood it very well, thanks to that site.

[Anubis]

That should tell you all you need to know.

[Tamanon]

Hrm, just finished rereading GL:Rebirth.

Do you guys think that this rip in the universe has something to do with Oa? I haven't read Rann/Thanagar but Hector Hammond says something at the end of Rebirth about "They are coming".....I dunno, just seems that we haven't seen the payoff from that yet.

[Anubis]

Oh he was probally talking about all of Hal's old villians.

[The Watchman]

Edit: Wrong post in the wrong place :confused:

[newmexneon]

Has issue #2 already been delayed? DC's website has it listed for the 9th but diamond's shipping list doesn't have it. I am starting to get pissed off about having to wait on books to come out and the shop I go to not recieving certain things at all.

[Tamanon]

No it's not delayed.

[Supergirl]

Just remember, last month Diamond didn't list it til that Monday.

[SpideyInATree]

Maybe DC has decided that it won't add it on the Diamond list until later to make people think it's going to be late and then completely surprised when they show up to the comic shop with the newest issue. :o

Or not. :(

[daredevillogan]

Okay, just went back and read the OMAC tpb. Hadn't followed Superman:Sacrifice either but now I am up to speed. I don't get why everyone's ragging on Wonder Woman and Batman, who started the whole damn thing with the satellite, is geting off so easy. If anything, Bats ought to be hanging his head in shame and Superman ought to be grateful Diana did what she did so he doesn't have any loved one's death on his hands. Oh, and now, in WW the OMACs are at Paradise Isaland. Jeez, can't this woman catch a break?

This whole event shows the difference between Marvel and DC. Wolverine kills people for bumping into him on the subway, Phoenix (Ultimate) destroys a helicopter heading to attack the mansion and Hawkeye (Ultimate Secret) puts arrows thru the heads of three invading aliens.

Being a super-hero - if you ain't got the stomach for it, get a talk show!

[lceman]

Here are a few preview pages from Newsarama:


http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/issue-2/INCR_2_01.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/issue-2/INCR_2_02_03.jpg

[yenaled]

God, I love Animal Man.

[The Watchman]

How can you not after Morrison's run.

[Anubis]

Man I hope they don't kill him off.

[Lackey]

they showed his wife and kids... he's a goner :(

[jaydawg]

Yeah, AM is screwed. The cliche animal's can sense it thing pretty much seal the deal.

[The Watchman]

They kill of AM, I kill DC.

[Anubis]

His son should be almost 20 by now.

[Eric Draven]

How can you not after Morrison's run.

Reading some of the post-Morrison issues can make you dislike him a bit, god talk about a convoluted mess they made of the character :(

[Marvin]

They kill of AM, I kill DC.

that's the purest funniest thing I've read on these boards in a long, long time! :up:

[SpideyInATree]

The beginning of that preview reminds me of that part in The Incredibles where Frozone asks his wife where his super suit is at. Heh. That part of the movie was freakin' hilarious. The whole movie was awesome. :o

[yenaled]

God, I love Animal Man.

[BrianWilly]

Man...two pages of Infinite Crisis has me more excited than all of House of M did.

Sorry, just had to throw that dig in.

they showed his wife and kids... he's a goner :(I wasn't worried until you said that:(.

[SKSpawn]

Hm, wasn't Zero Hour the sequel to the original Crisis? What was the point of Zero Hour anyway? :confused:

I really don't understand why DC has all this trouble with continuity and multiple Earths and such, it's like with the JSA. They messed up all the JSA continuity and Hawkman's continuity just to have them in the here and now to interact with the JLA and other heroes. Why not have the JSA set back in, like, the 40's or whenever and have a newer JSA in the here and now (like with Sand(y), the black Mr. Terrific and such like, the new kids) with the older guys (Jay Garrick, Alan Scott) as advisors or something? I don't see why they had to give some of the JSA members there potentially immortality.

Why can't heroes who were "erased" from DC continuity still exist in the DC world? Parallel universes are always a possibility, an infinite possibility, and there's lots of ways to do stories about them and parallel heroes/villains (such as evil versions of Superman and Batman) and DC should know this, these are the people with the out-of-canon Elseworlds series. They could find scientific or magical ways to breach the dimensional bridge between past, present, future and random parallel worlds for crossovers and Crisis events. They do this half the time as it is, I don't get why their continuity has to be so convulated in the way they make it out to be.

Anyway, hoping this Crisis will go pretty well, looks *****in' already, but am I the only one who finds it a little odd seeing guys like Batman involved in world-destroying events? Like, I mean, how useless is Batman when it comes to fending off a force like the entropy from Zero Hour or other potential world-destroying events? Not that Batman and other mortal heroes shouldn't be involved, it just seems a bit out of character...

[Bat-Mantis]

Hm, wasn't Zero Hour the sequel to the original Crisis? What was the point of Zero Hour anyway? :confused:

I really don't understand why DC has all this trouble with continuity and multiple Earths and such, it's like with the JSA. They messed up all the JSA continuity and Hawkman's continuity just to have them in the here and now to interact with the JLA and other heroes. Why not have the JSA set back in, like, the 40's or whenever and have a newer JSA in the here and now (like with Sand(y), the black Mr. Terrific and such like, the new kids) with the older guys (Jay Garrick, Alan Scott) as advisors or something? I don't see why they had to give some of the JSA members there potentially immortality.

Why can't heroes who were "erased" from DC continuity still exist in the DC world? Parallel universes are always a possibility, an infinite possibility, and there's lots of ways to do stories about them and parallel heroes/villains (such as evil versions of Superman and Batman) and DC should know this, these are the people with the out-of-canon Elseworlds series. They could find scientific or magical ways to breach the dimensional bridge between past, present, future and random parallel worlds for crossovers and Crisis events. They do this half the time as it is, I don't get why their continuity has to be so convulated in the way they make it out to be.

Anyway, hoping this Crisis will go pretty well, looks *****in' already, but am I the only one who finds it a little odd seeing guys like Batman involved in world-destroying events? Like, I mean, how useless is Batman when it comes to fending off a force like the entropy from Zero Hour or other potential world-destroying events? Not that Batman and other mortal heroes shouldn't be involved, it just seems a bit out of character...
I have absolutely no idea what the hell you just said. :confused:

[The Ether]

Animal Man better not die

[Bat-Mantis]

Well, I'll try to make some sense of it...
Hm, wasn't Zero Hour the sequel to the original Crisis? What was the point of Zero Hour anyway? :confused: Zero Hour wasn't really related to the original Crisis. It was about Hal Jordan trying to destroy then rebuild a perfect universe. It was DC's way to fix other continuity glitches and was a sequel to COIE in that respect, but it was not a direct sequel. This Crisis IS a direct sequel. It'll likely involve parallel worlds, the Anti-Monitor and the anti-matter wave.I really don't understand why DC has all this trouble with continuity and multiple Earths and such, it's like with the JSA. They messed up all the JSA continuity and Hawkman's continuity just to have them in the here and now to interact with the JLA and other heroes. Why not have the JSA set back in, like, the 40's or whenever and have a newer JSA in the here and now (like with Sand(y), the black Mr. Terrific and such like, the new kids) with the older guys (Jay Garrick, Alan Scott) as advisors or something? I don't see why they had to give some of the JSA members there potentially immortality.This whole paragraph really makes no sense at all. The JSA did exist in the 40's, and many of them have died since then. The survivors lead the JSA. Different characters have different reasons for still being alive and active now. Jay credits the Speed Force, Alan credits the Starheart, Ted credits his 9 lives and the Hawks were killed and reborn. I really don't know what you're talking about and I have no idea what it has to do with alternate earths.Why can't heroes who were "erased" from DC continuity still exist in the DC world? Parallel universes are always a possibility, an infinite possibility, and there's lots of ways to do stories about them and parallel heroes/villains (such as evil versions of Superman and Batman) and DC should know this, these are the people with the out-of-canon Elseworlds series. They could find scientific or magical ways to breach the dimensional bridge between past, present, future and random parallel worlds for crossovers and Crisis events. They do this half the time as it is, I don't get why their continuity has to be so convulated in the way they make it out to be.COIE erased the possibility of alternate earths. Since then that's been kind of undone and parallel worlds exist again (see Superman/Batman, JSA, and JLA for this).Anyway, hoping this Crisis will go pretty well, looks *****in' already, but am I the only one who finds it a little odd seeing guys like Batman involved in world-destroying events? Like, I mean, how useless is Batman when it comes to fending off a force like the entropy from Zero Hour or other potential world-destroying events? Not that Batman and other mortal heroes shouldn't be involved, it just seems a bit out of character...Why would Batman be out of place? He's a member of the JLA (or at least was a member) and fights crap like that all the time. And just because he doesn't have any powers doesn't mean he's out of place here. I mean, what can Superman do against an anti-matter wave? Punch it to death? If anything, a character like Batman is more useful in a situation like this since he's, you know, brilliant.

[BrianWilly]

am I the only one who finds it a little odd seeing guys like Batman involved in world-destroying events? Like, I mean, how useless is Batman when it comes to fending off a force like the entropy from Zero Hour or other potential world-destroying events? Not that Batman and other mortal heroes shouldn't be involved, it just seems a bit out of character...Have you read much DC? Powerless characters like Batman, Nightwing, Green Arrow etc get into world-destroying events all the time.

[TheCorpulent1]

Jay Garrick actually was de-aged by one of the JSA's villains, I think, which is why he only looks like he's in his 50s or so now. The Speed Force doesn't do squat to prevent aging.

And I'd have to agree that the Batman of Batman's comics, who actually acts like he's mortal, might be a little out of his depth on the front lines of something like the Infinite Crisis. But the Batman of the JLA fits right in. Either way, I'll be fine with Batman as long as he doesn't get an axe and start hacking up Doomsday clones again. :o

[Bat-Mantis]

I don't remember the details exactly, but all of the old JSA members had something that kept them young. It was some kind of side effect from a villain or something. Extant ripped it from them in Zero Hour and the heroes aged to roughly where they should be, then Extant aged others to dust.
Jay, Wally and other members of the JSA have said many times that the Speed Force helps to keep him young.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe it keeps him in running form, so that he's actually able to keep up with Wally for a brief period of time, but I don't remember anything about the SF actually keeping a person young. Wally certainly seems to have aged normally while he's been connected to it, for example.

[Anubis]

It w was that black stuff that they got doused with after they beat some dark demon dude. Thats why Obsidian has those shadow powers.

[yenaled]

It was that black stuff that they got doused with after they beat some dark demon dude.

LOL, most detailed post ever. :D

[Tamanon]

Wow.....just WOW at what's going on in issue #2.

Now all those solicits about "choices between what they always wanted" makes a ton of sense. Newsarama's also got #3's cover up now, very touching.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INCRLeeCv3_t.jpg

[yenaled]

Dan DiDio Crisis Councilling (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/CrisisCOunseling02.htm)

[lceman]

Okay....just read issue 2 and I have to say NOTHING HAPPENS. Am I the only one that feels this way? All that was said was more of the same information that we have already been told. I feel like this was a recap. I was thinking that the first issue set the stage and the story would really begin to move. I just feel like we should be further along than we are. Especially with these books having the extra few pages.

[Johnny DC]

Wow.....just WOW at what's going on in issue #2.

Now all those solicits about "choices between what they always wanted" makes a ton of sense. Newsarama's also got #3's cover up now, very touching.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INCRLeeCv3_t.jpg
That's only 1/4 of the cover.

[yenaled]

That's only 1/4 of the cover.

it is also in my link (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INCRLeeCv3.jpg)

[lceman]

Is it just me or does it seem like Superman(E2) is not going to team up with the E1 superheroes at first. He actually seems like he wants to get rid of them.

[Tamanon]

That's only 1/4 of the cover.

Yeah, I linked the wrong information, hah.

[joke]

Okay....just read issue 2 and I have to say NOTHING HAPPENS. Am I the only one that feels this way? All that was said was more of the same information that we have already been told. I feel like this was a recap. I was thinking that the first issue set the stage and the story would really begin to move. I just feel like we should be further along than we are. Especially with these books having the extra few pages.
Nothing new did happen. Why? Because it was planned that way. DiDio & Co. have said multiple times that IC #2 was basically a recap of all important things that have happened so people who haven't read almost any DC can get into the swing of things. Basically, it was for people who haven't read COIE.

[The Ether]

Read issue 2. Got a better understanding of what's going on now, but I feel it was a little rushed and I had an information overload as well:confused:. I get the feeling something might happen with Joker, maybe a Luthor(the one in the armor)/Joker team-up since Joker is the only one who wasn't invited in the society. I like the series so far, but I wished they put more pages in the book or at least have more issues instead of seven.

[lceman]

Never heard them say that. I guess that answers my questions to why. Thanks

[The Ether]

For the cover on issue 3, it looks like Earth-2 Superman is gonna ask Batman to help him in his mission. I got the feeling Batman's gonna agree.

[The Joker™]

Damn I gotta go get it before my comic shop closes, but I'm being lazy.

[The Ether]

stop being lazy and get:mad::p

[lceman]

I dont think that he is going to help. In the end of issue two Superman (E2) says that they need to bring back the right earth (not exact words). That makes me feel that he is going to turn against the syaing something liek This world can be saved.

[The Ether]

yeah, and that world was a lot more brighter and more innocent. In which Batman would help i guess.

[ShadowBoxing]

Okay....just read issue 2 and I have to say NOTHING HAPPENS. Am I the only one that feels this way? All that was said was more of the same information that we have already been told. I feel like this was a recap. I was thinking that the first issue set the stage and the story would really begin to move. I just feel like we should be further along than we are. Especially with these books having the extra few pages.This was definitely used as an issue to bring those unfamiliar with Crisis on Infinite Earths up to speed, which was a good move on their part. Issue 3 will most likely be big

However this issue does set up that

Joker pretty much "loses" his sense of humor about the whole villians united situation and will now go on some mad villian killing spree (thats what I thought they were saying at least)

Powergirl and Superman (and the rest of earth 2) are going to try to bring down Earth 1 and Superman or so it seems

Wonder Woman's homeworld is going to be pretty much decimated...maybe not beyond repair...but decimated none the less

True nothing happened...but it set up a lot.

[The Ether]

This was definitely used as an issue to bring those unfamiliar with Crisis on Infinite Earths up to speed, which was a good move on their part. Issue 3 will most likely be big

However this issue does set up that

Joker pretty much "loses" his sense of humor about the whole villians united situation and will now go on some mad villian killing spree (thats what I thought they were saying at least)

Powergirl and Superman (and the rest of earth 2) are going to try to bring down Earth 1 and Superman or so it seems

Wonder Woman's homeworld is going to be pretty much decimated...maybe not beyond repair...but decimated none the less

True nothing happened...but it set up a lot.
I agree, that's why I was wondering that Joker is going to do something big, and knowing how unpredictable Joker is, you can't tell. All in all, issue 3 is big for sure.

[lceman]

Posted by ShadowBoxing
Powergirl and Superman (and the rest of earth 2) are going to try to bring down Earth 1 and Superman or so it seems
I am getting the same feeling. If this does happen I think it will be a great twist on what everyone thought was going to go on. Also this is why I feel that if E2 Superman is asking for Batman's help he won't give it to him.

[Tamanon]

Hrm....I wonder...it does seem like a rather large leap for E2 Superman to make. I wonder if Alexander Luthor or someone else is influencing him in this decision. I understand the concept of anything for Lois, but he also has barriers or he did.....

I think Batman might end up talking him out of it, and then the real Crisis can begin.:)

[The Batman]

ah.....

So Batman's gonna be offered the life of the earth 2 Batman?

[The Ether]

ah.....

So Batman's gonna be offered the life of the earth 2 Batman?
Thats what I was thinking, I think Batman might accept it.

[Tamanon]

Thats what I was thinking, I think Batman might accept it.

I don't think he would totally accept it, while he may see it as a way to escape the mistakes he's made (Jason Todd, Tower of Babel, OMAC)....it just doesn't seem like Bruce's character, although didn't something similar happen in Superman/Batman when they were in that other world with Ra's Al Ghul?

It'll definitely be interesting and now you can really see how this series might change the personalities of the Trinity.

Can't wait for #3 dangit!

[The Batman]

I'm definetely getting the Lee cover for number 3....

come on folks, even you guys who prefer the perez covers has to admit the Lee cover owns

[lceman]

I cant see him taking it. Doesn't he always say that he never left Gotham because it is his home and he will never give up on it. Wouldn't he feel the same way here? There is just no way that Batman will run away from this and just try and start a new life.

[Tamanon]

Wait.....what about Parallax?

Remember when he was let out of the Battery, he said he had found a "disciple" in Rebirth.....

Earth-2 Superman is being driven by fear of losing Lois, Batman is being driven by fear of losing control. I wonder if the Specter who was merged with Hal/Parallax was also infected by him..... For a celestial entity, he's pretty durn sneaky!

[The Ether]

This is the first time in a long time that I can't predict the outcome of what's going to happen in a story. IC is really unpredictable right now mostly because they're still setting everything up I guess.

When It comes to covers, I just pick which looks more better artwise, and info. Perez's work on #1 and #2 gave you a good idea of what is going on in the issue. #3 Jim Lee's cover looks like something big is going to happen, where Perez's #3 and #4 still looks good though.

[Motown Marvel]

wheres the perez cover for issue #3?

and i dont know if its been theorized yet, but i've beent hinking this since issue 1, and issue 2 all but confirmed it, but im thinking earth 2 superman blew up the JLA watchtower

[The Batman]

How could he blow up the watchtower when he was trapped in the alternate dimension?

[Motown Marvel]

How could he blow up the watchtower when he was trapped in the alternate dimension?

well, it never really gives an exact timeline of when they left the alternate dimension. im just theorizing here. i mean, the watchtower computer said it was superman, we saw the corner of a red cape, seems like it'd be pretty hard to fake his dna. i dunno...maybe im wrong...just tossing ideas out there.

[The Ether]

I'm kinda confused with Luthor the one in the green and purple armor.Which one is he? pre crisis? post crisis?

[Tamanon]

well, it never really gives an exact timeline of when they left the alternate dimension. im just theorizing here. i mean, the watchtower computer said it was superman, we saw the corner of a red cape, seems like it'd be pretty hard to fake his dna. i dunno...maybe im wrong...just tossing ideas out there.

Well they broke out of the dimension AFTER the Watchtower was blown up, because they watched the whole confrontation between the Trinity before breaking out.

Wouldn't it be crazy if Superman-2 did succeed and the 1 year later is when his plans ultimately are shattered? Would definitely make 52 even more of a required comic for me:)

[The Batman]

well, it never really gives an exact timeline of when they left the alternate dimension. im just theorizing here. i mean, the watchtower computer said it was superman, we saw the corner of a red cape, seems like it'd be pretty hard to fake his dna. i dunno...maybe im wrong...just tossing ideas out there.

Hmmm, i see. But think about it. Earth 2 Supes is basically the perfect hero. I dont think hed blow up the watchtower and put MM at risk...

[LinternaVerde]

Maybe he rescued Martian Manhunter before the Watchtower blow up... Remember? MM: "You are..."

[jim lee's bat]

"You are..."

What?

[Motown Marvel]

Hmmm, i see. But think about it. Earth 2 Supes is basically the perfect hero. I dont think hed blow up the watchtower and put MM at risk...

well, he could have saved MM, or he knew MM would save himself, or whatever...but also, take into consideration that E2 superman is apparently planning on wiping out this earth from existance and replacing it with his earth...seems like MM's life would mean little.

Well they broke out of the dimension AFTER the Watchtower was blown up, because they watched the whole confrontation between the Trinity before breaking out.


hmmmmm....

[jim lee's bat]

Actually I was thinking along the same lines as motown maybe it's not Earth 2 Supes in particular could be Superboy of Earth Prime or a Supes from a different Earth

[The Joker™]

Wow Just read it and I'm pumped.

I loved how they showed Superman looking at his Death artical, then getting pumped to go kick some ass.

My favorite part was obviously Jokers.

The society didn't want you because everbody knows Jokers are wild.HAHAHAHA

He looked like Brian Bolland's Joker from the killing Joke. :up:

Damn I gotta get that page and make a avvy out of it.


So what was the deal with Power Girl being a fraud?

I must have missed that issue.

[Lackey]

no one's mentioned Booster Gold...he has skeets back, and he brought some historical documents with him, now he's going to find the scarab. T
We've all been expecting that scarab to show up again, but I wonder what part those historical documents will play.

[UltimateBatman]

Booster can likely stop some of the Crisis from ever occurring.
The scarab?
Blue Beetle III = Booster Gold?

[Lackey]

Also, it seems a tad selfish for Superman of Earth-2 to want to bring back his world and wipe out this one... I wonder if the other heroes will stand against him.

I mean, if you really wanted to bring back the "right" world, I think it should be Earth-Prime.

[Supergirl]

I'm definetely getting the Lee cover for number 3....

come on folks, even you guys who prefer the perez covers has to admit the Lee cover owns
I'll admit that that Lee cover is sweet. I'll probably wind up getting both for issue 3. At least Lee got the symbol right this time...

Booster can likely stop some of the Crisis from ever occurring.
The scarab?
Blue Beetle III = Booster Gold?
They covered that he can't prevent it from starting, because now he's a death row felon in his own time, so he can't go back to attempt another time-jump. And DiDio has flat out said that Booster will NOT be the next Beetle.

[StreetFighter]

Part 2 was a serious step up in the end. I saw the end of 1 as a cheap ploy to bring back Pre-Crisis ****e, but now that it's turning into Pre-Crisis Supes and Luthor coming back and starting trouble, it could be good.

[lionhart]

edit

[goldmill]

They covered that he can't prevent it from starting, because now he's a death row felon in his own time, so he can't go back to attempt another time-jump.

Really? Could you give me a summary of that, especially the death row felon part.

[Lackey]

did you read the issue? :confused:

[Supergirl]

Skeets: I have taken the liberty of initiating your force fields. Temporal travel successful within six point five days.

Booster: Did we make it Skeets? Did we make it back in time?

Skeets: I am afraid not, sir. The Justice League's Watchtower has already been destroyed.

Booster: Dammit...

Skeets: And we cannot return to the Twenty-Fifth Century for another time jump. The historical records I assisted you in hijacking mean a DEATH SENTENCE for the both of us.

Booster: But it could mean life for millions of others. Maybe billions.

[The Joker™]

Could somebody through up some cover pics of #3?

[Supergirl]

Perez's http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/4005/InfinteCrisisCv3Perez.jpg
Lee's http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INCRLeeCv3.jpg

[drastic_quench]

Check out the panels were Earth 2 Supes is talking about the JSA and the JLA. Batman and the Spectre are juxtaposed. Another red herring? Curiously, Supes 2 JSA chair is empty...

[The Joker™]

Perez's http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/4005/InfinteCrisisCv3Perez.jpg
Lee's http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INCRLeeCv3.jpg


Thank you.

Lee's cover is awsome.

[TheCorpulent1]

Also, it seems a tad selfish for Superman of Earth-1 to want to bring back his world and wipe out this one... I wonder if the other heroes will stand against him.

I mean, if you really wanted to bring back the "right" world, I think it should be Earth-Prime.
Yeah, I was wondering if they'd cast Earth-2 Superman as the villain, too. More likely, he's just misguided and will get some sense knocked into him, probably by the post-Crisis Supes, before the mini's through.

[The Joker™]

Anybody got the page of Jokers appearance?

I don't know where to download comics.

[TheCorpulent1]

No, but I found the fact that he killed the entire Royal Flush Gang hilarious for some reason.

[The Joker™]

Yes, it was a moment in Joker history that I will always remember with a smile. :up:

[Motown Marvel]

by the way....what were the documents that booster old hijacked? is it unknown at this time or did i miss something?

[The Joker™]

I'm wondering the same thing I gotta reread that issue.

[Supergirl]

Anybody got the page of Jokers appearance?

I don't know where to download comics.
Who dya love? ;)

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6063/joker0ze.jpg

[Assassin]

That was the ****! Every body knows the joker is too wild


"thats not funny"-the joker

[SpideyInATree]

I prefer Lee's cover for issue # 3. :O

[Supergirl]

Yeah, me too, but being a Perez junkie I'll probably get both :confused:

[Assassin]

i got both so far, lee's was better this month too

[Supergirl]

I liked Perez's alot more this month... Lee's was good, but he screwed up Superman-2's symbol and his cover just didn't reflect the epicness of the story to me.

[Lackey]

I liked Perez's covers better for both #1 and #2, but Lee's cover is better for #3.

[Lackey]

by the way....what were the documents that booster old hijacked? is it unknown at this time or did i miss something?


nope they haven't told us what records he stole, it should be revealed later.

[Lackey]

No, but I found the fact that he killed the entire Royal Flush Gang hilarious for some reason.


it was ****ing perfect is what it was...that was my favorite page in this issue :up:

[The Ether]

No, but I found the fact that he killed the entire Royal Flush Gang hilarious for some reason.
One of the best parts in this issue.:up:

and the fact that Jimenez's Joker looks similar to Bollands makes it even better.

[Emerald Knight]

Yeah, me too, but being a Perez junkie I'll probably get both :confused:

:up: I've been doing that from the beginning.


...And I think Perez's covers are better. :D


The guy drew the original Crisis (interestingly enough the original began around the day of my birth - July 1985), It just screams to be taken. :O

[The Joker™]

Who dya love? ;)

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6063/joker0ze.jpg


:up: :up: :up: :up: :D


Thank yous.

[TheCorpulent1]

it was ****ing perfect is what it was...that was my favorite page in this issue :up:
I always wondered why there wasn't more conflict between the two of them. Both operate out of Gotham and both use the same gimmick.

[The Joker™]

Ha thats what they get for stealing his bit.LOL

[yenaled]

Oh my God.

No need for spoilers... I guess.

BOOSTER IS BACK WITH SKEETS.

That made one Booster Gold fanboy happy over here.

"Locate my League"

He's also got the history of the world with him. Go Michael.

So we have everything going wrong in every corner of the DCU and to make it worse Earth-2 Superman wants to change this Earth into Earth-2 continuity where everything was happier. He's technically not a villain because he is doing it to save this Earth from itself. Interesting. Also anyone else think Earth-2 Superman is being effected by whatever is making this universe dark and corrupted. He seems already a bit more depressed and darker than he should do.

The Joker scene was the first time in years I have liked him. Well done.

The Amazons are ****ed :/

And Society-Luthor is collecting heroes from each Earth is he. The Ray (definate) maybe Uncle Sam from Earth-X. Power Girl from Earth-2, the Marvels from Earth-S. Wonder if he is trying to bring back a multiverse.

BTW, anyone thinking Batman will become the Spectre should really read the "next in..." for Gothan Central #38 at the back of #37. Hell, everyone should read Gotham Central #37. Best tie-in issue so far.

I've just realised...

At Texas Wizard Wrold Dan DiDio said that the cover we have seen for #4 (the Perez one) isn't the finished cover. I would put money on the Anti-Monitor being placed where the huge white hole is.

[The Joker™]

Yeah I liked the first page with him and his family.

[TheIntellectual]

A few thoughts... First, Gotham Central 37 does EXACTLY what a tie-in should do: Show how the wider event affects individual characters in one corner of the DCAU by adding emotional ressonance. Take note, Marvel.

It's clear that Luthor isn't so much planning to mindwipe the heroes but rather he's gathering members of every earth for some reason. hence PowerGirl's importance, the capture of qwark, and the need for a Marvel family member. Perhaps he is trying to reverse COIE and bring back the multiverse.

That one page with the Joker was the first time since Jason Todd's death thbat I've actually been excited about the Joker's character. Finally, he may get some much needed motivation.

Which Luthor is which Luthor? One is clearly Pre-Crisis, but I have a feeling that this plot thread is going to end somewhere very, very unexpected

Superboy-Prime is a putz.

E-2 Supes is not evil; I think people are reading into his character entirely wrong. He's not about to reverse COIE, Supes is doing this because it's in his blood to help people. And sitting in a room for 20 years and watching the "heroes" fail....it's got to be painful to watch all that suffering esepcially in comparison to the happy day-glo world of Pre-Crisis.

I'm hoping that the main DCU heroes end up mindwiped, and the Pre-Crisis homeboys try to replace them... and realize that today's world is too complex to apply Pre-Crisis laws.

Lastly, for fans of Red Hood check out Teen Titans 29. Not only do we get a pitch perfect Tim-Jason meeting, but we also finally get a clue as to how Jason Todd is alive.

[TheCorpulent1]

E-2 Supes is not evil; I think people are reading into his character entirely wrong. He's not about to reverse COIE, Supes is doing this because it's in his blood to help people. And sitting in a room for 20 years and watching the "heroes" fail....it's got to be painful to watch all that suffering esepcially in comparison to the happy day-glo world of Pre-Crisis.
Sorry, but replacing the existing world with your own is wrong any way you look at it. I'm fairly sure he won't be the villain, though. He'll just be misguided until someone can snap him out of his nostalgia and make him realize that things are more complex now than Earth-2 was.

[The Joker™]

The metaphors are great. :)

[Tamanon]

Sorry, but replacing the existing world with your own is wrong any way you look at it. I'm fairly sure he won't be the villain, though. He'll just be misguided until someone can snap him out of his nostalgia and make him realize that things are more complex now than Earth-2 was.

Not to mention, evil and good are totally subjective, so in his eyes currently, he could be doing the "good" thing.

Yeah I see him being convinced otherwise to abandon that plan, maybe instead to encourage the world as a symbol again...

And somebody is pushing him towards these decisions, my theory is Alex Luthor.

[The Ether]

E-2 Supes is not evil; I think people are reading into his character entirely wrong. He's not about to reverse COIE, Supes is doing this because it's in his blood to help people. And sitting in a room for 20 years and watching the "heroes" fail....it's got to be painful to watch all that suffering esepcially in comparison to the happy day-glo world of Pre-Crisis.

E-2 Supes isn't evil IMO. I think he's playing the Magneto card right now. He's doing something although it could erase the existence an entire universe, for the good intentions of bringing back a time of innocents and such.

[Supergirl]

Sorry, but replacing the existing world with your own is wrong any way you look at it. I'm fairly sure he won't be the villain, though. He'll just be misguided until someone can snap him out of his nostalgia and make him realize that things are more complex now than Earth-2 was.
I agree with Corp... I mean isn't that exactly what the Anti-Monitor was doing in the original Crisis? Replacing universes with his own?

[The Ether]

Most likely it would either be Power Girl or Superman or a small chance that it could Batman that might snap E-2 Superman out of his mindset.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Question do you think this is how Batman goes crazy? Seeing the life he has always wanted and watch it leave him?

[TheCorpulent1]

Why would Batman go crazy? :confused:

[Anubis]

I suppose he's refuring to the Bats in Arkham rumor.

[TheCorpulent1]

That sounds pretty bad.

[Anubis]

Depends on how he got there. If his ID were ever exsposed, that would be enough to get him tossed in the nut house right there. A rich dude who dresses up like a bat and practices vigilantism isn't crazy enough for Arkham? Not saying I want it to happen, but if it did, making him actually go crazy instead of going with the fact that he already is crazy (If you think about it) would be kinda stupid.

[Banj0duck]

which Luthor was it that was in the suit in the arctic? I'm not entirely clear on which Luthor it was that ran the society either.

[Lackey]

We don't know what Luthor is running the society (blue eyes), it hasn't been revealed... possibly pre-crisis Luthor.
The Luthor in the armor suit (green eyes) is supposedly post-crisis Luthor...who's kinda going crazy.

[BrianWilly]

I think that makes most sense; Post-Crisis Luthor wouldn't be the guy gathering up all the characters from different universes, after all.

[The Joker™]

Yeah I think pre-crisis Luthor gathered them all together.

Anybody think they'll throw in a twist and it will be Batman who did then the Joker is the one who finds it out and stops it.

The irony would be great.

[jaydawg]

What did happen in TT29 anyways? I read that Tim and Jason had a throw down and at one point Todd is wearing his old Robin outfit.

[Supergirl]

Lots happened. Tim and Jason DID throw down, and Jason WAS wearing an updated version of his old costume. Cyborg left Beast Boy in charge of the team as he went off with Donna. Cassie talked with her mom about Zeus, and saw the WW/Max Lord footage. The Kents saw that footage and gave Diana the benefit of the doubt, but Conner didn't.

[The Joker™]

What did happen in TT29 anyways? I read that Tim and Jason had a throw down and at one point Todd is wearing his old Robin outfit.


LOL What...no way....HAHAHa then Todd really is bananas. :D

[The Ether]

LOL What...no way....HAHAHa then Todd really is bananas. :D
at least he had some pants, so u didn't see him showing off his legs:o

[Agentdemon]

All I know is that E2 superman's agenda or whatever sounds f*ed up, maybe the lack of sex has gone to his head :p .

[The Riddler]

no riddler. :(

[The Joker™]

Riddler you should use pics from when he was on the building looking over Gotham for a avvy.

Alter it so it looks like hes king of it or something.

I wish mine would hold more kbs so I could do that with the Joker.

[TheIntellectual]

Also in Teen Titans 29, although I'm not clear with the villain of the upcoming arc, Brother Blood, there is an explicit reference to how Jason Todd is alive.

Raven says at the end: "I can feel it in my soul-self. I've felt something for awhile. Death and Life have lost their meaning. The doorways have been cracked open. Souls are slipping in and out. Clawing their way.... they're.... the doors are trying to close... they must. The Dead must stay Dead and the living...."

[The Joker™]

So is that the reason for Jim lee's cover on #3 you think?

[Assassin]

after TT29, i think Kara is gonna be wondegirl and cassie is gonna be supergirl.

think about it.

[Supergirl]

Where the hell are you getting that from? :confused:

[BrianWilly]

Well, Kara trained with Wonder Woman and Cassie is boning Superboy.








...Wait, that makes no sense at all. Where the hell are you getting that from?

[Assassin]

Cassie said in TT29 that she doesnt agree with what WW did to maxwell lord, on the otherhand Kara said it had to be done (not in exact words) its my theory, im not sayen its gonna happen but if it does, u heard it from me

[Assassin]

cassies persoanality is like supermans, she may change her way if kara decides that she isnt fit to wear the superman sheild if shes dianas protoge (SP?)

[Assassin]

i mean after IC not after TT29 my bad

[The Riddler]

Riddler you should use pics from when he was on the building looking over Gotham for a avvy.

Alter it so it looks like hes king of it or something.

I wish mine would hold more kbs so I could do that with the Joker.
i can't find the pic on the internet, though.

[UK_Stu]

So is that the reason for Jim lee's cover on #3 you think?

No, the Jim Lee #3 cover is Earth-2 Superman showing Batman, what the life of the Earth-2 Batman was like - Married to Selina Kyle with a baby girl (who would go on to become Huntress), Dick still as Robin, alive and kicking.

If as theorised Earth-2 Superman wants to ressurect Earth-2, he is maybe trying to convince Batman to help him with the lure being -"If Earth 2 is returned, this is what your life could be like"

[UK_Stu]

Cassie said in TT29 that she doesnt agree with what WW did to maxwell lord, on the otherhand Kara said it had to be done (not in exact words) its my theory, im not sayen its gonna happen but if it does, u heard it from me

I'm pretty sure they won't swop super hero personas, just because they have different views on when its acceptable to take a life. These views will probably only influence whose side they take in IC.

[KryptoKnight]

The question is, how the heck is E2 Superman going to try to bring back Earth 2? It doesnt exist anymore and ended in 1986.

[Supergirl]

i can't find the pic on the internet, though.
You can thank me later ;)

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5997/riddler5yw.jpg

[raybia]

No, the Jim Lee #3 cover is Earth-2 Superman showing Batman, what the life of the Earth-2 Batman was like - Married to Selina Kyle with a baby girl (who would go on to become Huntress), Dick still as Robin, alive and kicking.

If as theorised Earth-2 Superman wants to ressurect Earth-2, he is maybe trying to convince Batman to help him with the lure being -"If Earth 2 is returned, this is what your life could be like"


I didn't necessary get from IC-2 that Superman wants to bring back Earth 2, its just that maybe the Earth that did get saved is the wrong Earth based on what he has been witnessing from his abode of paradise. Certainly what he has observed has not just been the past 20 years but he has been able to witness the entire "new" history of the DC Universe, and Superman has concluded that something is "wrong". I would also say that these sentiments are also shared by the other survivors of the Original Crisis.

So, while it looks like this could turn into a case of Earth 2 Superman becoming a threat and therefore the "villian" to the DC Universe, what if Superman is exactly right?

What if something did go wrong at the end of COIE that was not apparent by anybody at the time...including Earth 2 Superman and Alexander Luthor?

We know that the DC Universe originally started as this one universe until the experiments by this scientist to look back at the beginning of creation caused the multiverse to form.

If this scientist had never attempted this experiement, then the history of the DC Universe, for better or worst, would have played out exactly as it should had.

We as fans, assume that the events in the DC Universe over the past 20 years after Crisis played out correctly. But maybe it didn't.

Earth 2 Superman may be viewed by all of us as someone who is doing what he is doing for selfish reasons who must be stopped.

But maybe he just wants to set things right whether he benefits personally or not.

Isn't that the definition of a true hero? Someone who will sacrific themselves for the greater good?

That is what this Superman has returned to do. To teach the so-called heroes of the DC Universe the true meaning of being a hero. In the old pre-Crisis stories, regardless of the villian's plot, in the end, good always triumphs over evil without the hero having to compromise their beliefs. But in the post-Crisis universe, the hero doesn't always win, and when they do win, they sometime still lose because they crossed a line that must never be crossed regardless of the threat. In other words, this new breed of heroes will attempt to win through any means necessary.

I also thought all of those years ago, that the original Superman, the granddaddy of them all, would be the one to make the ultimate sacrific to save the Universe in Crisis. I think he was denied his big moment (Probably by Supergirl) and now he is back to fullfil his destiny.

[Ultimate_Superman]

^^^ Well said :up:

[BrianWilly]

Cassie said in TT29 that she doesnt agree with what WW did to maxwell lordWhen did this happen? All I see her saying is "Oh my God." Doesn't mean that she disagrees with WW, it just means that she's shocked.

[Donnie Darko]

Is it sad that I am a 21 year old guy in a really fun college, hanging out with loads of hot girls daily (UNC cheerleaders... good stuff), and Infinite Crisis is the thing I am most excited about in my life?

[jaydawg]

Anyone have scans of the jason tood robin costume from TT?

[Keyser Soze]

Just got #2 today. Undoubted highlight was The Joker's appearance. I was under the impression he wouldn't be involved in infinite Crisis. What a pleasant surprise!

[The Red Skull]

Is GA Supes really planning to bring back Earth-2? Perhaps what he's showing Batman is an attempt to reinspire Bruce - allow him to see the hero he's capable of becoming through GA Bat's example.

Or maybe I just don't want Supes to be the bad guy in all of this...

[Tamanon]

In GL:Rebirth #5 didn't Sinestro go to the Anti-Matter universe upon defeat?

Hrm......

[yenaled]

In GL:Rebirth #5 didn't Sinestro go to the Anti-Matter universe upon defeat?

Hrm......

well he always does. it is where he gets his yellow power ring from.

[Tamanon]

well he always does. it is where he gets his yellow power ring from.

I knew there was a reason nobody else mentioned it! I'm not hip to all the Sinestro lore. Thanks:)

[Oldguy]

Is GA Supes really planning to bring back Earth-2? Perhaps what he's showing Batman is an attempt to reinspire Bruce - allow him to see the hero he's capable of becoming through GA Bat's example.

Or maybe I just don't want Supes to be the bad guy in all of this...

It sure looks like he wants to make E2 the source Earth, and all other elements folded into it. Remaking the world in a new image, sounds like villany to me. Gotta love these shades of grey scenario.:up:

[Supergirl]

Anyone have scans of the jason tood robin costume from TT?
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9650/085aa.jpg :o

[The Watchman]

Is it sad that I am a 21 year old guy in a really fun college, hanging out with loads of hot girls daily (UNC cheerleaders... good stuff), and Infinite Crisis is the thing I am most excited about in my life?
Sarabeth Bartlett :up: Gotta love those UNC cheerleaders. ;)

[yenaled]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb06/DCU/InfiniteCrisisCv5Perez.jpg

Infinite Crisis #5 Perez Cover.

[The Watchman]

God, how I love Perez...

[Anubis]

heh, kick his wussy @$$

[The Batman]

Yes....GA Superman's finally gonna teach this imposter what it means to be a man of steel

[batnkevlar]

Jesus, GA Supes is like 700 hundred million years old... he'll lose his teeth...

[yenaled]

Jesus, GA Supes is like 700 hundred million years old... he'll lose his teeth...

He is also, historically, more powerful than Modern Age Superman :D

It'll be a good fight.

[jaydawg]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9650/085aa.jpg :o
You rock. I thought he was wearing an updated Robin costume? Oh well. What happened to the white streak?

[batnkevlar]

He is also, historically, more powerful than Modern Age Superman :D

It'll be a good fight.

I know... but I like Post-Crisis, which I consider NOT AN IMPOSTER, ya know?

And I like the Jason Todd Robin costume... it's pretty slick...

[The Batman]

You rock. I thought he was wearing an updated Robin costume? Oh well. What happened to the white streak?

Technically, its the outfit Todd wore when he was robin, but the tights got miscolored

[SpideyInATree]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb06/DCU/InfiniteCrisisCv5Perez.jpg

Infinite Crisis #5 Perez Cover.

Superman vs. Superman!! :eek: I'm there! :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

That was pretty obviously coming based on the stuff that's happened in the first 2 issues. The cover still looks great, though.

[Tamanon]

A couple weird things that will probably be explained as the series goes on.

When Booster comes back, he tells Skeets "Locate *MY* league" not locate THE league......kinda odd there.

What's up with Lex Luthor in the arctic going a little wacky when Kal-L flies overhead, it's like he suddenly forgets what he was actually doing(tapping into the Society broadcast)

Obviously, Society-luthor's machine isn't a mindwipe machine, otherwise he wouldn't be looking for representatives from all the different multiple Earths....unless he means it literally and he's trying to recreate the crisis?

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm wondering what's up with Mockingbird-Luthor too. He seems to be going crazy. My guess is that Society-Luthor is the post-Crisis Luthor who's supposed to be there, and Mockingbird-Luthor is basically an interloper in a universe he doesn't belong to, which is taking its toll on him.

My guess about Booster is that he was thinking of Guy, Fire, Elongated Man, etc., not the "big" League.

[Emerald Knight]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb06/DCU/InfiniteCrisisCv5Perez.jpg


This scene just screams "OWNED" if ever I've seen one. :up: :D

[SpideyInATree]

Yeah, that definitely has an "Owned" written all over it. :o :up:

[yenaled]

When Booster comes back, he tells Skeets "Locate *MY* league" not locate THE league......kinda odd there.

He is talking about his friends from the time he was in the League, the JLI/Super Buddies. So out of who is left; Metamorpho, Fire, Guy Gardner, Mary Marvel, Elongated Man. Obviously Ted is no more, Captain Atom is in Wildstorm, Dr. Light has been depowered and Red Rocket is dead.

I like the idea of all the leagues within the league.

Like the Power Pack (mindwipers) from the Satellite Era, the Trinity and the JLI. Also Aquaman's Justice League Detroit.

[Johnny DC]

Random Question:
Does anyone think the new Zod is a result of IC, or does no one care about him anymore?

[Anubis]

You talking about the one that was in For Tommorw or the Red one that broke Supes Jaw?

[The Riddler]

You can thank me later ;)

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5997/riddler5yw.jpg
it won't work for me. :(

[Supergirl]

It should now: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9650/085aa.jpg :o


and :eek: that Perez cover is F**KING SWEET! :eek:

[The Riddler]

It should now: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9650/085aa.jpg :o


and :eek: that Perez cover is F**KING SWEET! :eek:
woo, you rock. :up:

[Supergirl]

The F**K? I'm still getting JT when I click that one :confused: Try this one: http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6373/riddler9bb.jpg

[The Riddler]

The F**K? I'm still getting JT when I click that one :confused: Try this one: http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6373/riddler9bb.jpg
they all work now. :up:

[LinternaVerde]

It was an accident. I was looking in the internet for the JLA 122... And I found the JLA 122 v1!
Ok, the story was titled: "An untold case of the JLA... The Great Identity Crisis"
The main villain: you guessed it... Doctor Light!
The story is about how Doc Light mindwipe the memories of the JL, and who are they behind their masks... pretty interesting... in the last panel they swear to know each other identity..

[The Joker™]

That Prez cover is kick ass.

How do you guys find these covers?

I can't find them anywhere.

[yenaled]

That Prez cover is kick ass.

How do you guys find these covers?

I can't find them anywhere.

Newsarama were given a preview of Mondays Solifications.

For people who don't know. DC release there comic solicits on the third monday of every month. If you check dccomics.com (or any big comicbook website) on Monday 14th around 5pm EST. You will have comic information for Feburary tomorrow.

[The Joker™]

Ah, cool thanks.

[Not Jake]

So, uh, trying to get into this whole DC thing, with the Identity and Infinite Crisis, etc...what trade do I pick up first. Identity Crisis? OMAC Project? Little help.

[Emerald Knight]

Identity Crisis starts everything off. Then the mini's: JLA: Crisis of Conscience, OMAC Project, Day of Vengeance, Rann/Thanagar War, Villains United, and The Return of Donna Troy (if that's coming out in TPB format...Don't know that one yet myself.) Then after all that starts Infinite Crisis.

[TheCorpulent1]

Good list, EK, but you forgot Sacrifice. I think it's being solicited as a Superman TPB, but it really involves the entire so-called "trinity" of the JLA: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It pretty much brings those 3 right up to where they are at the beginning of Infinite Crisis #1.

[Not Jake]

Geez, what a commitment reading this dumb story's gonna be.:( Oh well i s'pose I can swing it. Maybe skip a trade here and there.

[Emerald Knight]

Good list, EK, but you forgot Sacrifice. I think it's being solicited as a Superman TPB, but it really involves the entire so-called "trinity" of the JLA: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It pretty much brings those 3 right up to where they are at the beginning of Infinite Crisis #1.

GAH! whoa. haha. midnight. Ya gotta love it. *smacks head* Yes, Sacrifice IS going to be a TPB in either December or January, and it is quite essential for the upcoming Crisis as well as OMAC project (since it happens in between issues 3 and 4).

[The Joker™]

Just get Identity Crisis, OMAC Project, Villains United and Sacrifice.

Those were the best ones and pretty much all you need.

[yenaled]

I wouldn't bother with sacrifice. In the OMAC trade there is the main sacrifice story and a summary of the other 3 books. Honestly the first three out of the four comics in Sacrifice were not that important.

I would also get Crisis of Confidence, the JLA story which is coming out in December in trade.

[Emerald Knight]

Well, Day of Vengeance does explain why everything magical is hitting the fan in Gotham...

And I completely forgot the prologue stories to some...

Green Lantern: Rebirth shows why the Spectre is without a host in the first place,

And Adam Strange: Planet Heist shows why the Rann/Thanagar war is started.

[regwec]

Is GA Supes really planning to bring back Earth-2? Perhaps what he's showing Batman is an attempt to reinspire Bruce - allow him to see the hero he's capable of becoming through GA Bat's example.

Or maybe I just don't want Supes to be the bad guy in all of this...
I think it's more complex than that. GA Batman actually killed people in spontanious executions, and had a degree of contempt for life. MA Batman is the total opposite of that. Ironically, though he is one of the darkest characters in the DCU, MA Batman is perhaps the only hero who is lighter and more moral than his GA counterpart.

My guess is that GA Superman invites MA Batman to be the Batman of Earth 2, but that Bruce declines.

[Ultimate_Superman]

I think it's more complex than that. GA Batman actually killed people in spontanious executions, and had a degree of contempt for life. MA Batman is the total opposite of that. Ironically, though he is one of the darkest characters in the DCU, MA Batman is perhaps the only hero who is lighter and more moral than his GA counterpart.

My guess is that GA Superman invites MA Batman to be the Batman of Earth 2, but that Bruce declines.The same could be said for GA Superman. When he first came out he killed as well. But like all GA heroes they got watered down after the war :(:down

[raybia]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb06/DCU/InfiniteCrisisCv5Perez.jpg


This scene just screams "OWNED" if ever I've seen one. :up: :D

Technically, Earth 2 Superman should be more than a match for Post Crisis Superman.

In fact, is there a non-magical being in the DC Universe than would be more powerful that E2 Supes?

[That-Guy]

Okay, I need some help clearing a few things up here. As much as I love Infinite Crisis thus far, I think they may be creating a lot of plot holes here as far as the whole "multiverse" aspect is concerned. Okay, so, COIE is supposed to have unified everything in one universe. Since the anti-matter universe was not supposed to exist, then one would assume that it doesn't. Yet, that is where Sinestro hides out, correct? So it must still be around. Also, I didn't read JLA/Avengers, but I heard that in that series, they not only met up with Marvel characters, but also the Crime Syndicate. So that would mean that there are other realities as well, right? I've heard that these all could have been created by Hypertime, but I'm not sure that Hypertime is something that is absolute in the DC universe... just more of a possibility. Can anyone clarify any of this? Is there, in fact, still only one universe? Or are there two (matter and anti-matter) or more (infinite again)? Regarding what occured in the last issue, wouldn't it be interesting if the DCU is actually IN the anti-matter universe and THAT is what is making it so dark and evil?

[Lazarus440]

Okay, I need some help clearing a few things up here. As much as I love Infinite Crisis thus far, I think they may be creating a lot of plot holes here as far as the whole "multiverse" aspect is concerned. Okay, so, COIE is supposed to have unified everything in one universe. Since the anti-matter universe was not supposed to exist, then one would assume that it doesn't. Yet, that is where Sinestro hides out, correct? So it must still be around. Also, I didn't read JLA/Avengers, but I heard that in that series, they not only met up with Marvel characters, but also the Crime Syndicate. So that would mean that there are other realities as well, right? I've heard that these all could have been created by Hypertime, but I'm not sure that Hypertime is something that is absolute in the DC universe... just more of a possibility. Can anyone clarify any of this? Is there, in fact, still only one universe? Or are there two (matter and anti-matter) or more (infinite again)? Regarding what occured in the last issue, wouldn't it be interesting if the DCU is actually IN the anti-matter universe and THAT is what is making it so dark and evil?
i think that Sinestro goes to Qward, they just brought back earth two witch i think is in Qward.

[Doc Destruction]

Earth -2 Superman is WAY more powerful than 1. Pre-crisis Supes is the baseball-pitch-planets-kind-of-a-guy.

[raybia]

Okay, I need some help clearing a few things up here. As much as I love Infinite Crisis thus far, I think they may be creating a lot of plot holes here as far as the whole "multiverse" aspect is concerned. Okay, so, COIE is supposed to have unified everything in one universe. Since the anti-matter universe was not supposed to exist, then one would assume that it doesn't. Yet, that is where Sinestro hides out, correct? So it must still be around. Also, I didn't read JLA/Avengers, but I heard that in that series, they not only met up with Marvel characters, but also the Crime Syndicate. So that would mean that there are other realities as well, right? I've heard that these all could have been created by Hypertime, but I'm not sure that Hypertime is something that is absolute in the DC universe... just more of a possibility. Can anyone clarify any of this? Is there, in fact, still only one universe? Or are there two (matter and anti-matter) or more (infinite again)? Regarding what occured in the last issue, wouldn't it be interesting if the DCU is actually IN the anti-matter universe and THAT is what is making it so dark and evil?

That actually would be a very cool twist. The universe at the end of COIE actually merged and reformed as it should have...except that it did so in the wrong universe; the Anti-matter universe. If Sinestro is hiding, maybe he is in the normal universe.

[Phoney Bone]

My guess about Booster is that he was thinking of Guy, Fire, Elongated Man, etc., not the "big" League.

I'm gonna ****ing cum myself if they end up being the heroes of this book
















And not all killed........

[The Watchman]

Earth -2 Superman is WAY more powerful than 1. Pre-crisis Supes is the baseball-pitch-planets-kind-of-a-guy.

Earth 2 Superman is Golden Age Superman, he couldn't even fly, Silver age Superman is the one who was extremely powerful, I think I'm a little confused on exactly what kind of amalgam Earth 2 Superman is...

[BrlntDsgse]

Earth 2 Superman is Golden Age Superman, he couldn't even fly, Silver age Superman is the one who was extremely powerful, I think I'm a little confused on exactly what kind of amalgam Earth 2 Superman is...


Actually, Golden Age Supes was written with the ability to fly within a year of his first being published, it was a VERY early addition to the characters powers. Then the x-ray/vision powers followed within a few short years, so Golden Age Superman had the same powers as Earth 1 Supes..........as for his LEVEL of power, that's up in the air........I'm not sure if he'd be AS powerful as Earth 1's version was often portrayed, but he's AT LEAST as powerful as the current JohnByrne/Post-Crisis Superman. I like the idea of these two being pretty evenly matched for their upcoming bout.

[BrlntDsgse]

Oh and here's some food for thought........does anyone realize that Earth2 Superman's plan is almost EXACTLY what Hal/Parallax was trying to do way back in the Zero Hour series, remaking the universe into what HE thinks is best for everyone even if it means wiping out the existence of countless others?

[drastic_quench]

Oh and here's some food for thought........does anyone realize that Earth2 Superman's plan is almost EXACTLY what Hal/Parallax was trying to do way back in the Zero Hour series, remaking the universe into what HE thinks is best for everyone even if it means wiping out the existence of countless others?

Yep. I wonder how it'll play out this time around. Will E2 Superman be made into a full-fledged villain?

[xtiano]

i was wondering if earth 2 superman is the golden age supes, and the modern age supes is the one we know from the byrne revamp, then where the hell did the silver age superman go to after crisis on infinite earths? would't it be cool if he came back one last time to settle the fight between e2 supes and post crisis supes. after all the silver age incarnation was the most powerful of all


ps: and what about superman from birthright?

i guess i just wanna see a supermen royal rumble heheheh

[BrlntDsgse]

i was wondering if earth 2 superman is the golden age supes, and the modern age supes is the one we know from the byrne revamp, then where the hell did the silver age superman go to after crisis on infinite earths? would't it be cool if he came back one last time to settle the fight between e2 supes and post crisis supes. after all the silver age incarnation was the most powerful of all


ps: and what about superman from birthright?

i guess i just wanna see a supermen royal rumble heheheh


Well, technically, I guess that the Modern post-crisis Superman IS the Earth 1 Superman who survived the Crisis, just depowered and with his past altered due to the "restructuring" of history after the merging of the Earths. I mean after all, its been established that many of the JLA's silver age adventures STILL took place in Post-Crisis and that the current Superman took part in them. And as for the whole Birthright thing, I wonder if that will play into the storyline of IC, what with the modern Supes currently having 2 completely different origins(Man of Steel and Birthright).

[xtiano]

asides from psycho pirate does any other haracter have any memories of the pre crisis universe? and how come the current superman remembers his participations in the pre crisis league but doesn´t remember any of the events that ocurred during the crisis

[Ultimate_Superman]

Well, technically, I guess that the Modern post-crisis Superman IS the Earth 1 Superman who survived the Crisis, just depowered and with his past altered due to the "restructuring" of history after the merging of the Earths. I mean after all, its been established that many of the JLA's silver age adventures STILL took place in Post-Crisis and that the current Superman took part in them. And as for the whole Birthright thing, I wonder if that will play into the storyline of IC, what with the modern Supes currently having 2 completely different origins(Man of Steel and Birthright).Why did they redo his orgin? Lets see:

1. Man of Steel he was a test tube baby
2. Man of Steel he could barely hold a plane
3. Man of Steel Ma Kent was a widow who's husband had died
4. The \s/ was a family thing of the Kents
5. He became Spider-Man with a cape

Now I am not saying it was bad but Birthright fixed alot of those problems.

[Supergirl]

Characters who remember Pre-Crisis:

Donna Troy (thanks to Harbinger's History of the Universe Orb)
Harbinger (deceased)
Lady Quark (deceased I think)
Pariah (maybe deceased)
Power Girl (thanks to Superman-2)
Superman-2
Lois Lane-2
Alexander Luthor-3
Superboy-P

[TheCorpulent1]

Why did they redo his orgin? Lets see:

1. Man of Steel he was a test tube baby
2. Man of Steel he could barely hold a plane
3. Man of Steel Ma Kent was a widow who's husband had died
4. The \s/ was a family thing of the Kents
5. He became Spider-Man with a cape

Now I am not saying it was bad but Birthright fixed alot of those problems.
Weren't almost all of those fixed long before Birthright came around? I know for a fact that Pa Kent was alive before Birthright, he'd gotten powerful enough to hold a lot more than a plane long before Birthright, and the cold and scientific nature of Krypton responsible for #1 had been retconned away long before Birthright. I'm fairly sure the "S" symbol had returned to being a Kryptonian symbol a while before Birthright, too. "Spider-Man with a cape" is incredibly debatable, since a lot of people still view Superman as more icon than man, and Birthright didn't even fix that, since it added a few elements from Smallville, the TV series that is blatantly capitalizing on the humanized, Spider-Man-esque formula with Superman.

[The Sage]

The only real element added from Birthright is the element of the Kents being younger. Other than that, Waid got his inspiration from Elliott Maggin's stories, which is most likely where the producers of Smallville got their's. That's why there are some similarities between the two.

Also, most of the stuff from Byrne was still intact before Birthright. Kal-El was still a test tube baby. I believe there was that attempted retcon with the "Return to Krypton" storyline, but I don't believe it stuck.

[The Batman]

Just so everyone knows, IC 2 pretty much confirmed that the post crisis characters are mostly reincarnated earth 1 characters, with some earth 2 characters thrown in there

[thebat7]

Okay, I need some help clearing a few things up here. As much as I love Infinite Crisis thus far, I think they may be creating a lot of plot holes here as far as the whole "multiverse" aspect is concerned. Okay, so, COIE is supposed to have unified everything in one universe. Since the anti-matter universe was not supposed to exist, then one would assume that it doesn't. Yet, that is where Sinestro hides out, correct? So it must still be around. Also, I didn't read JLA/Avengers, but I heard that in that series, they not only met up with Marvel characters, but also the Crime Syndicate. So that would mean that there are other realities as well, right? I've heard that these all could have been created by Hypertime, but I'm not sure that Hypertime is something that is absolute in the DC universe... just more of a possibility. Can anyone clarify any of this? Is there, in fact, still only one universe? Or are there two (matter and anti-matter) or more (infinite again)? Regarding what occured in the last issue, wouldn't it be interesting if the DCU is actually IN the anti-matter universe and THAT is what is making it so dark and evil?


The way I understand things is that, in the beginning, there was one (postive matter) universe and it's opposite (anti-matter universe). Krona tried to look back at the moment of creation and accidentally fractured the universe into the multiverse. Earth 1, Earth 2, etc. Presumably each of these new universes had it's own anti-matter version as well.

Earth 2 had the Golden age heroes and the JSA. Earth 1 had the Silver age heroes and the JLA (but not the JSA, they never existed on that Earth in any form). COIE rewrote Earth 1 combining elements of Earth 2 with it. Now, instead of the JSA never having existed, they did appear on Earth 1, but in its past.

But remember, the universe still has its opposite side...namely the anti-matter universe named Qward. It's still there and is technically NOT part of a multiverse, just an opposite version of our own.

[Anubis]

I thought the positive Matter universe was the only one that split and there was only one Anti Matter Universe. Thats why the Anti Monitor was stronger.

[Goldenage Batman]

Ok...so who all died in issue2?...

[TheCorpulent1]

Everyone. The whole damn DC universe died. The last page of the issue said, "That's all she wrote, mutha****as!!" It was the weirdest comic I ever read...

[Goldenage Batman]

funny....:D..but no really...

[TheCorpulent1]

Um... the Royal Flush Gang. The OMACs attacked Themyscira, too. Most of the issue was devoted to a history lesson about pre-Crisis continuity.

[Goldenage Batman]

ok...thank you...

[thebat7]

I thought the positive Matter universe was the only one that split and there was only one Anti Matter Universe. Thats why the Anti Monitor was stronger.

You are probably right...I just presumed it had split too but now that I think about it, you ARE correct sir!!

[BrlntDsgse]

Just so everyone knows, IC 2 pretty much confirmed that the post crisis characters are mostly reincarnated earth 1 characters, with some earth 2 characters thrown in there



Actually, this news is nothing new, damn near all the Earth 1 characters histories Post-Crisis were still the same unless SPECIFICALLY CONTRADICTED.....it's just that the Earth 2 heroes were now part of their PAST, rather than alternate reality counterparts. This is why most of the JLA'S silver age adventures, Batman's adventures from the late 60's and 70's, and the Green Lantern/Green Arrow issues from the 70's STILL took place in the Post-Crisis continuity People always seem to forget that only a small number of characters were restarted COMPLETELY from scratch (Superman, Wonder Woman, Thanagarian Hamkman) after the Crisis.

[BrlntDsgse]

Why did they redo his orgin? Lets see:

1. Man of Steel he was a test tube baby
2. Man of Steel he could barely hold a plane
3. Man of Steel Ma Kent was a widow who's husband had died
4. The \s/ was a family thing of the Kents
5. He became Spider-Man with a cape

Now I am not saying it was bad but Birthright fixed alot of those problems.

Ummm dude....I never ONCE in my post that you quoted even ASKED why they redid the origin, I only wondered if the two origins would be a story point in IC. Methinks you feel the need to "defend" Birthright too much......and I won't even MENTION the fact that only your FIRST point is even remotely true about the Man of Steel origin.....oh wait, I just DID mention it, cause I'm RIGHT. :supes:

[BrlntDsgse]

asides from psycho pirate does any other haracter have any memories of the pre crisis universe? and how come the current superman remembers his participations in the pre crisis league but doesn´t remember any of the events that ocurred during the crisis

Actually, ALL the characters remember that a Crisis occured, that they fought the Anti-Monitor, they just don't remember that there was a MULTIVERSE. In the post-crisis universe, a Crisis involving the Anti-Monitor STILL happened to the heroes, it's just that they stopped him from destroying the UNIVERSE rather than the MULTIVERSE. This is why the characters still remember that Barry Allen died fighting the Anti-Monitor. Granted, however the crisis took place in the new continuity had to be VASTLY different than the story in the actual Crisis series, there have still been NUMEROUS references by characters since then about the crisis itself, it's just none of them remember multiple earths, other than Psycho Pirate and the few who have recently learned because of Infinite Crisis.

[MaskedManJRK]

Actually, ALL the characters remember that a Crisis occured, that they fought the Anti-Monitor, they just don't remember that there was a MULTIVERSE. In the post-crisis universe, a Crisis involving the Anti-Monitor STILL happened to the heroes, it's just that they stopped him from destroying the UNIVERSE rather than the MULTIVERSE. This is why the characters still remember that Barry Allen died fighting the Anti-Monitor. Granted, however the crisis took place in the new continuity had to be VASTLY different than the story in the actual Crisis series, there have still been NUMEROUS references by characters since then about the crisis itself, it's just none of them remember multiple earths, other than Psycho Pirate and the few who have recently learned because of Infinite Crisis.

Actually, I wouldn't go as far as they know about Anti-Monitor and such. I think most of the heroes/populace only remember Barry Allen's death, that he saved the entire universe in a large battle.

[Anubis]

You know, I finally read the issue, and I noticed Alexander Luthor's....demenor. He seemed, I don't, funny to me. If you look at him, he certainly has the power for something on this scale. Bringing back dead characters, pulling dudes from alternate universes over to this one. And you also have to look at his nature. He comes from a world where everything good is bad. So who is to say that the son of the only actual hero in that world, isn't just as evil and corrupt as everyone else? I'm not coming out and saying he may be behind this, pushing Superman to do whatever it is he will inevitably do, but he definatly deserves some watching.

[TheCorpulent1]

He's seemed mostly monotonous to me. Just kind of floating around in the background all the time. Of course, Johns could just be making Earth-2 Supes very arch and obvious as a red herring while Alex is the real threat. Alex could very well be the butler of the bunch.

[BrlntDsgse]

Actually, I wouldn't go as far as they know about Anti-Monitor and such. I think most of the heroes/populace only remember Barry Allen's death, that he saved the entire universe in a large battle.


Nope, they know the Anti-Monitor. I don't remember the issue number but it was a story near the tail end of Mark Waids run on Flash. In the story, a villain (Cobalt Blue, I think) goes back in time and kills Barry BEFORE his real death in Crisis, and in the process throws history out of whack. Wally decides that to keep history on the right course that HE has to go back to the time of the Crisis and die in Barry's place in order to save the universe. Eventually he just goes back and stops the villain from killing Barry prematurely anyway, but in the meantime he first went back to the Crisis and DIRECTLY encountered the Anti-Monitor, and clearly remembered how the heroes fought him before. And besides, if all the heroes could remember was that Barry died in some great battle ,but not the HOW or WHY that it would raise all kinds of alarm bells with them as to why they couldnt remember the specifics?

[Anubis]

There was a particular scene were they were talking with PG and Superboy snapped at her, and Alex said, "Our Escape was nothing short of a miracle, Kara. Even I'll admit that." What did he mean by that? Did he mean that, he put them there for a reason? That Supes breaking free was against his plans? Or maybe he saw no way out and that Supes gave him his shot at domination? Or maybe it meant nothing. I don't know. I'm just sayin, somethings fishy about Red.

[batnkevlar]

I think they remember Barry dying to save the universe from the Anti-Monitor or Monitor or whoever... but they DON'T remember the multiverse...

[Jono87]

I think we've all forgotten to mention Bruce's blow up towards Alfred. Yes, it may be obvious, but the key bit of info from this bit was Alfred's comment about Bruce's solitude. BTW, I loved the panel of him and his shadow with nothing and no one, so symbolic. Anyway, this when combined with Bruce's guilt over everything w/ the OMACs and whatnot, clearly point to what would seem to be the obvious choice in what we're all assuming will be E2 Supes' offer next ish. On the other hand, Batman, the darkest character by far, is also the most incorruptable. I can't shake the feeling that he wont take the offer due to some personal obligation he feels to do what is right, to pay for his sins, to not take the easy way out, that being the path offered by E2 Supes.

I apologize. You may think this is a pointless rant, but I feel I must at least contribute these two cents.

[regwec]

Yes, I think we are going to see a more balanced and good natured Bruce in the future; just as we will see a more inspirational Superman.

[thebat7]

I think they remember Barry dying to save the universe from the Anti-Monitor or Monitor or whoever... but they DON'T remember the multiverse...

Or Superman's cousin, Supergirl. The one that died on the famous cover. That's why Supe's is so surprised when she showed up in Superman/Batman.

[Tamanon]

I think we've all forgotten to mention Bruce's blow up towards Alfred. Yes, it may be obvious, but the key bit of info from this bit was Alfred's comment about Bruce's solitude. BTW, I loved the panel of him and his shadow with nothing and no one, so symbolic. Anyway, this when combined with Bruce's guilt over everything w/ the OMACs and whatnot, clearly point to what would seem to be the obvious choice in what we're all assuming will be E2 Supes' offer next ish. On the other hand, Batman, the darkest character by far, is also the most incorruptable. I can't shake the feeling that he wont take the offer due to some personal obligation he feels to do what is right, to pay for his sins, to not take the easy way out, that being the path offered by E2 Supes.

I apologize. You may think this is a pointless rant, but I feel I must at least contribute these two cents.

To pay for his sins you say...

To redeem himself maybe? If only they had a character who served as a spirit of vengeance but also was used to redeem..... hehe.

[drastic_quench]

I wonder if E2 Supes is going to be introduced to an E1 beatdown from prep-time Batman. I mean, the batcave is Bruce's homecourt. You know he has a plan for taking down Superman in his cave.

[BrlntDsgse]

I wonder if E2 Supes is going to be introduced to an E1 beatdown from prep-time Batman. I mean, the batcave is Bruce's homecourt. You know he has a plan for taking down Superman in his cave.



As much as I'd LOVE to see this happen, I have to wonder.......if Batman DID hand him his ass in the next issue.......then why do we see E2 Supes sucker-punching current Supes on the cover after that? Or....is that the aftermath of Batman rejecting E2's offer, at which point he ends up calling in modern Supes to help take him down.

[Anubis]

Prep time bats, give me a break. :rolleyes: Whats he gonna do use Kryptonite? E2 Supes chews that stuff like Bubble Yum. He makes a move, he'll probally get his @$$ kicked. Again.

[regwec]

I wonder if E2 Supes is going to be introduced to an E1 beatdown from prep-time Batman. I mean, the batcave is Bruce's homecourt. You know he has a plan for taking down Superman in his cave.
You may have a point there. I think I am right in saying that, though E2 Superman is more powerful than E1 Superman, he is also more vulnerable to kryptonite. Batman is sure to be on heightented alert after Superman was manipulated by Max Lord...It could be interesting.

[Anubis]

He is less Vulnerable to Kryptonite. Are you even paying attention?

[Ultimate_Superman]

Kryptonite has no effect on E2 Superman he is to powerful. That man in one issue just ate it like it was nothing. I am sorry but Batman would get a beat down worse that what Post-Crisis did.

[Anubis]

Thank you.

[drastic_quench]

It's all vague. Golden Age Superman couldn't even fly, he did the "single bound" and manipulated his fall with his cape. Yet pre-crisis Superman hauled planets around. The trouble is that there is no clear division on who is who. E1 Supes is a pre-crisis Superman as well as E2.

[BrlntDsgse]

Kryptonite has no effect on E2 Superman he is to powerful. That man in one issue just ate it like it was nothing. I am sorry but Batman would get a beat down worse that what Post-Crisis did.

You need to get your facts straight........First of all, that was EARTH ONE Superman that ate the Kryptonite......and secondly, the only reason he ate it was because at that time in the comics all the Kryptonite on Earth had been rendered inert by being turned into harmless iron. I'm sure that Kryptonite would still have an effect on E2 Supes.

[Ultimate_Superman]

E2 Superman has done it as well. Earth 2 Superman was just as powerful as E1. E2 Superman could fly also but only after time he didn't start till the war. But E2 Superman can not be effected by kryptonite. I mean for christ sakes during his end days why do you think they never used it because it didn't hurt either of them anymore.

[BrlntDsgse]

It's all vague. Golden Age Superman couldn't even fly, he did the "single bound" and manipulated his fall with his cape. Yet pre-crisis Superman hauled planets around. The trouble is that there is no clear division on who is who. E1 Supes is a pre-crisis Superman as well as E2.


It's really not that vague.....the Golden Age Superman gained flight by the end of the first year of his publishing history, and within a few years all the other classic super-powers followed suit. And during the Silver Age E2 Superman was consistently shown to be just as powerful as Earth 1 Superman or at the very least damn close.

[BrlntDsgse]

E2 Superman has done it as well. Earth 2 Superman was just as powerful as E1. E2 Superman could fly also but only after time he didn't start till the war. But E2 Superman can not be effected by kryptonite. I mean for christ sakes during his end days why do you think they never used it because it didn't hurt either of them anymore.


During WHAT end days?!? The guy is STILL alive, have you been paying attention?

[regwec]

He is less Vulnerable to Kryptonite. Are you even paying attention?
Yes, though not to you, particularly.

[CAPT. MARVEL]

I wonder if E2 Supes is going to be introduced to an E1 beatdown from prep-time Batman. I mean, the batcave is Bruce's homecourt. You know he has a plan for taking down Superman in his cave.
this made me laugh so hard, Bruce is such a badass and I'm even a huge Supes fan...

[Binker]

Question:

Now I haven't read any recent comics but kept track of them.

Now, is there any previews of Infinite Crisis #1 and in the beginning of the book Supes, Bats and WW are already somewhere, how did they get there and from what story?

[The Joker™]

They were in space moutain in Disneyland.

Probably got there by plain or maybe Superman.

[Emerald Knight]

well, Superman flew to the watchtower at the end of Adventures of Superman 645, and I don't know about the other two...they're probably coming up in their respective comics sooner or later.

[Doomed_hero]

Well at the end of the JLA issue where the JLA all team up to verbally abuse Batman, he said he was heading to the watch tower so thats where he is coming in.

[Anubis]

WW went before she turned herself in. How they got there? I think they said a few of the teleporters were still working.

[XFanTim]

It's all vague. Golden Age Superman couldn't even fly, he did the "single bound" and manipulated his fall with his cape. Yet pre-crisis Superman hauled planets around. The trouble is that there is no clear division on who is who. E1 Supes is a pre-crisis Superman as well as E2.Well, we saw Earth-2 Supes throwing moons at the Anti-Monitor In COIE #12. Since that was his last appearance until now (not counting The Kingdom, which is Elseworlds) I assume he's still at that power level.