The Infinite Crisis Thread (SPOILERS)

[newmexneon]

Which Superman was it that showed up in Superman/Batman and said he had to stop them from destroying the world or whatever it was.

[Anubis]

An alternate future version of the current one.

[BrlntDsgse]

I wonder if all the weird continuity/timeline discombobulatin' going on in IC will finally herald the triumphant return of Ambush Bug?

[ScuZZ]

Noo.. Don't bring him back..
He's worse than Myxzlplytx (or however you spell it)
At least the mytxldude had a reason for doing what he does.
Ambush Bug is just annoying.

[rex26]

Ive been following infinite crisis throughout the mini's and the buildups but I have one question. Have they explained how Earth 2 Luthor survived the original crisises? I know Earth 2 Supes and Superboy Prime and the rest were trapped in that crystal observatory thing, I just dont know if they explained Earth 2 Luthors preservation yet.

[Fledermaus]

Braniac killed Earth-2 Luthor in COIE.

[logan_weapon_x]

Forgive me if this has been asked before but what if anything do we know does Hush have to do with the Crisis?

[Sarge 2.0]

Forgive me if this has been asked before but what if anything do we know does Hush have to do with the Crisis? Nothing so far.... So...how 'bout that Power Girl? (Yes, I just bought IC #2, feel free to laugh.)

[Themanofbat]

Yeah, I'm just thinking of his adventures when Morrison was writing him.

He was a part of the DCU then as well. The Martian Manhunter made a guest appearance in one of those early issues.

:confused:

[BrlntDsgse]

Nothing so far.... So...how 'bout that Power Girl? (Yes, I just bought IC #2, feel free to laugh.)


Yes, how 'bout her indeed. They sure knew how to breed 'em on ol' Earth2 ,huh?:up:

[Sarge 2.0]

Yes, how 'bout her indeed. They sure knew how to breed 'em on ol' Earth2 ,huh?:up: They must get special vitamins in defunct realities or something.

[dk_thebatman]

They must get special vitamins in defunct realities or something.

Haha... That's great.

So, I was talking to a few people in my local comic shop a while ago, and I found out a lot of them hate IC intensely. That took me aback. I mean, are there actually people here who hate this series? Is that allowed? Will Johns send hitmen out to kill us if we do?

[Anubis]

THeres people that hated Identity Crisis. I perfur to believe that they have no taste and disregard there opinions.

Seriously though, different strokes for different folks thats all I can say.

[dk_thebatman]

I suppose that's true. Personally, I can't see it, I think the series is very good, very well written and the artwork is pretty damned cool. But, if others don't like it..... Oh well.

BTW, I like your avatar, Anubis. :up:

[BrlntDsgse]

Haha... That's great.

So, I was talking to a few people in my local comic shop a while ago, and I found out a lot of them hate IC intensely. That took me aback. I mean, are there actually people here who hate this series? Is that allowed? Will Johns send hitmen out to kill us if we do?

Well, for anything on Earth you'll find somebody who doesn't like it. Some of those people will have valid reasons/critiques, and some of them are just hating for the sake of hating, and some are a little of both. As for me, I'm liking what I've seen so far, but I think next issue with E2 Superman and Bats meeting will be a better one to judge, so far we've just gotten alot of setup, not bad setup IMHO ,but setup nonetheless. Next issue we're finally gonna get into the real "meat" of the story and be able to tell if it tastes juicy and delicious, or just rancid :)

[Benstamania]

Well, for anything on Earth you'll find somebody who doesn't like it. Some of those people will have valid reasons/critiques, and some of them are just hating for the sake of hating, and some are a little of both.

Kinda reminds me of some of the guys that post in the AS B&R thread on the Batboards. :down

Anyway, I'm really enjoying IC so far, should be interesting to see what happens next.

[dk_thebatman]

Well, for anything on Earth you'll find somebody who doesn't like it. Some of those people will have valid reasons/critiques, and some of them are just hating for the sake of hating, and some are a little of both. As for me, I'm liking what I've seen so far, but I think next issue with E2 Superman and Bats meeting will be a better one to judge, so far we've just gotten alot of setup, not bad setup IMHO ,but setup nonetheless. Next issue we're finally gonna get into the real "meat" of the story and be able to tell if it tastes juicy and delicious, or just rancid :)

Oh, hell yes. I can't wait for next issue, and that's definitely going to be (for me) the determining factor of whether my money goes towards DC or something else. And I do know that you'll find someone who hates something no matter what it is. I, for instance, hate the Beatles. But, then again, I have no musical taste :D

[dk_thebatman]

Kinda reminds me of some of the guys that post in the AS B&R thread on the Batboards. :down

Anyway, I'm really enjoying IC so far, should be interesting to see what happens next.

Haha, a friend of mine got really pissed at this one guy on there, Kurosawa or something. He hated the hell out of that guy :P

[Benstamania]

I just think it's pathetic. If you don't like something, don't read it. Instead several topics get made by the SAME people complaining about it.

Anyway, in Crisis is anyone thinking that when this is over it's possible that Jason Todd will not have died, Superman was never killed, Batman was never crippled, etc. ?

[TheCorpulent1]

God, I hope not.

[ShadowGhost12]

I have a bad feeling that it's all to possible DC will do something like that to revert a bunch of major events that have happened in DC books over the past couple years maybe.

Anyhow, I've been keeping right up with IC, read all the miniseries, etc, etc. and I have to say it's a pretty confusing book. I like it, and I think that it could very well turn out to be great, but I also think it could easily turn out to be crap. I'm looking forward to the 52 miniseries coming out after IC though, that looks cool too!

[BrianWilly]

I really, really, really don't think that DC is looking to alter their past continuity in any significant ways. From their interviews, I get the impression that they know messing with the past too much just leads to things being even more awkward and incomprehensible.

It's the future we have to worry about...

[BrlntDsgse]

I really, really, really don't think that DC is looking to alter their past continuity in any significant ways. From their interviews, I get the impression that they know messing with the past too much just leads to things being even more awkward and incomprehensible.

It's the future we have to worry about...

I disagree, I think we just might get a return of Earth2 , alongside modern day post-crisis DCU as the "new" Earth 1. If you think about it, it's really going to be the only way that the JSA will make any sense. Don't get me wrong, I think that the original idea of the JSA existing on the same earth as the modern heroes and being their past inspiration was great, but it's time has passed. The JSA/Golden Age characters are "locked" into a specific point in time, World War II. The modernn heroes, however, are not locked into any set "start date", their histories begin "ten years ago" perpetually. This makes the heroes relationships with the JSA heroes harder and harder to justify, especially in the case of some modern heroes being the CHILDREN of JSA members. I think this fact, combined with what we already know about the Earth2 Superman's plan could very well mean that the JSA and other Golden-Agers will be shunted back to a restored Earth 2 timeline, coexisting alongside a "new" Earth 1(the current DC Earth)

[MaskedManJRK]

I disagree, I think we just might get a return of Earth2 , alongside modern day post-crisis DCU as the "new" Earth 1. If you think about it, it's really going to be the only way that the JSA will make any sense. Don't get me wrong, I think that the original idea of the JSA existing on the same earth as the modern heroes and being their past inspiration was great, but it's time has passed. The JSA/Golden Age characters are "locked" into a specific point in time, World War II. The modernn heroes, however, are not locked into any set "start date", their histories begin "ten years ago" perpetually. This makes the heroes relationships with the JSA heroes harder and harder to justify, especially in the case of some modern heroes being the CHILDREN of JSA members. I think this fact, combined with what we already know about the Earth2 Superman's plan could very well mean that the JSA and other Golden-Agers will be shunted back to a restored Earth 2 timeline, coexisting alongside a "new" Earth 1(the current DC Earth)

Most of the JSA has some good excuses, Jason Thunder is about the right age for being in the WWII era, Alan Scott is alive thanks to the Starheart, Jay Garrick has the Speed Force, Ted Grant has the nine lives, Starman had plenty of other successors during the years, Hawkman/Hawkgirl are reincarnated...I think you get the point.

[BrlntDsgse]

Most of the JSA has some good excuses, Jason Thunder is about the right age for being in the WWII era, Alan Scott is alive thanks to the Starheart, Jay Garrick has the Speed Force, Ted Grant has the nine lives, Starman had plenty of other successors during the years, Hawkman/Hawkgirl are reincarnated...I think you get the point.

Well, yeah there are a few that are given the weak "slowed aging" excuse, but what about the fact that Alan Scott has two normal age children, Jade and Obsidian, who he fathered with a Golden-Age villainess who DID NOT have the benefit of a slowed aging process, meaning that they'd have to be much older than they are actually portrayed. What about Rick Tyler? And of course let's not forget about Black Canary. BTW , Starman's other successors don't count, since they weren't REALLY successors anyway, they just used the same name. His only realm successor as Starman was his DIRECT SON, who was also portrayed as far younger than he could possibly be. I mean, come on, in ten years do you want them to be telling stories set in the modern day,but still featuring the "slowed aging" original JSA members?How long until that plot device just runs out of steam? BTW, does anybody realize that with Jay Garrick's slowed aging that his wife would actually be a couple decades older than him physically? I mean.....come on,Jay.....yuck.

[MaskedManJRK]

BTW, does anybody realize that with Jay Garrick's slowed aging that his wife would actually be a couple decades older than him physically? I mean.....come on,Jay.....yuck.

She's a female in a comic book, so she's a little more spry then most old ladies. Besides, grannies need lovin' too. :D :o

[Anubis]

You are aware that there is Granny porn for a reason. There are people that like that sort of thing. Maybe Jay's one of em.

[BrianWilly]

The current Black Canary isn't the one that was in the old JSA; the current Black Canary is her daughter.

I stand by my opinion that going back and "redoing" continuity will only make things even more convoluted, and DC knows this.

[BrlntDsgse]

The current Black Canary isn't the one that was in the old JSA; the current Black Canary is her daughter.

I stand by my opinion that going back and "redoing" continuity will only make things even more convoluted, and DC knows this.

Yeah, I KNOW it's her daughter, but that was actually my point . Even just being the originals daughter, Dinah would have to be at least within spitting distance of sixty years old. Especially considering the fact that the original Canary IS NOT one of the JSA members who has had some outside influence slow their aging.

And, IMHO, things are already ridiculously convoluted with the whole JSA/aging thing, the Thanagarian Hawkman, modern Supes having TWO separate origins(Man Of Steel/ Birthright), the LEGION reboot(even though the pre-reboot legion often interacted with present day Post-Crisis heroes), and let's not even get started on Hypertime. I think they could take this oppurtunity in IC to TRULY streamline continuity they way they TRIED to after the original Crisis.

[dk_thebatman]

You are aware that there is Granny porn for a reason. There are people that like that sort of thing. Maybe Jay's one of em.

..... That's just effin gross.

[Lazarus440]

..... That's just effin gross.don't make it any less true.

[Motown Marvel]

im wondering now if IC will attempt to clean up some of the mess/contraversy in regards to MOS/Birthright.

[regwec]

I really hope so. That is one issue where a "re-allignment" is not only justified, but necessary.

[Doomed_hero]

Just read issue #2 and i know i am late, but it was great esp. for those who never read COIE. Joker of course was the best.

I am wondering, there where rumors or I think it was even confirmed by Johns that Hal jordan and Batman are going to have another confrontion. I can't remeber if it was that they fought or Hal saved his life.

Anyone wondering how this will fit in cause Hal has seemed to be non existant as of yet.

[BrianWilly]

I believe the Hal/Batman confrontation will take place in Hal's own book; not sure if it crosses over to the Crisis directly at all.

[regwec]

If it takes place in Hal's book, and it is written by Johns, then we can just expect another pointless humiliation of Batman.

[Doomed_hero]

hmm cause i though johns said there would be a confrontation in IC, of course i could have read it worng. However if Bats does take part in trying to bring the Earth-2 back cause he doesn't trust the hereoes on his own anymore, you can bet there would be a confrontation. But that just doesn't seem like something Bats would do. maybe he will play along to learn all about E-2 Supermans plans and then turn. who knows, but i cant wait for it.

[Doomed_hero]

If it takes place in Hal's book, and it is written by Johns, then we can just expect another pointless humiliation of Batman.


well johns is writing IC isnt he? Bats has been shown pretty by him so far imo.

[regwec]

Yes, but we all remember what happened in Green Lantern: Retard.

[Doomed_hero]

Well ya, but I felt Bats had it coming so. Its all about taste I guess.

[regwec]

I don't want to open up this argument again, but...Batman did have it coming, but not in those circumstances.

[Rasmon Redux]

wow, when's #3 due out...?

[Black Panther]

wow, when's #3 due out...?

December 28

[drastic_quench]

I read in Comic Shop News that Superboy Prime is getting a costume change in IC.

[Binker]

I have a question: between Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis, theer are these tied-in stories that bridge it. However, its always the case where soem stories are the MUST NEED and others aren't.

THE OMAC PROJECT
RANN-THANAGAR WAR
VILLIANS UNITED
CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

Which are the must need and which isn't and why?

[regwec]

We really won't know how relevant each is until the crisis has passed. But we do know that Villians United and Crisis of Conscience are important.

[BrianWilly]

I'd say the Rann-Thanagar war has been least important whereas OMAC Project was most important. You could probably go into Crisis without reading Day of Vengeance, too, but I thought it was a good read.

[Anubis]

Actually, i'd have to say that the most important was OMAC/Sacrifice and Day of Vengence. They are the two imediate promlems to deal with. Villians United didn't really go into what the Society were planning to do. And the big @$$ hole in the universe didn't show up in Rann/Thannagar until the last issue. ANd they didn't even go into what it was. I'd say your better off reading all of em. Because they all rock. (Especially Villians United)

[Arkady Rossovich]

Does anyone think that Infinite Crisis will be made into a TPB?Im liking what i am seeing so far,but im buying TPB`s at the moment.Does anyone think that this DC event will be made into one?

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't see how it could be made into a TPB. I could see an entire series of Infinite Crisis TPBs, but it'd be a LOT of TPBs.

[MaskedManJRK]

My prediction is that they're just going to release the IC and the mini-series before it into TPB's, and maybe having the other stories that connect to it be released on it's own thing, like Nightwing sneaking into the Society would be "Nightwing: Infinate Crisis," or something, and Batman/Red Hood facing off against the Society would be "Batman: Infinate Crisis" or something.

[yenaled]

Before everyone reads #3 Dan DiDio: Crisis Counseling Session 3 (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/Counseling03.htm)

[Emerald Knight]

Great find! :up:

[Ultimate_Superman]

Why do they tease me with this cover

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/InfiniteCrisis/INCRCv4lee.jpg

but dont touch on Superboy really :(

[Sentry2005]

I love how Krypto is going for Superboy Prime, and I also like how 'our' Superboy looks far more muscular.

[regwec]

I've never quite been able to get along with Superboy. I personally hope they kill each other...

[Ultimate_Superman]

I've never quite been able to get along with Superboy. I personally hope they kill each other...:eek::eek::eek:You shall feel my wrath if that happens:mad::mad::mad:

[GoldenAgeHero]

i dont like what dan said about dick grayson, when the writer asked will he be yelling obsenties while dan is walking down the street and dan answers"what street do you walk down on?"

[yenaled]

Dan avoids all questions though, he's not going to spill anything that happens.

I like the answer to the question about Joey Q's comments about Infinite Crisis; "I'm glad he reads and enjoys our comics."

[MaskedManJRK]

Dan avoids all questions though, he's not going to spill anything that happens.

I like the answer to the question about Joey Q's comments about Infinite Crisis; "I'm glad he reads and enjoys our comics."

Yeah, that was pretty funny. :D

Anyway, read #3 at my comic shop. Pretty damn good.

SPOILERS

The best parts were Batman/E2 Superman and the final reveal.

I loved how Batman used Dick to refuse E2 Superman's quest (though I don't understand what Supes meant when he told Bats no when he asked if Supes' version was better). It showed the humanity of Batman: He may be a bastard, and f**ked up royally with Brother Eye and the OMACs, but he still cares for his "family."

And things take a slight twist. Apparently Alex was the "bad son," and Superboy Prime is suffering from the ignorence of age. Is Alex and Prime the true villians of the story? Find out next month, same IC-time, same IC-channel.

[Pksoze]

One of the coolest stories and lots of mysteries revealed....

I guess a Luthor will always be a Luthor...

[newmexneon]

Let me know if I am wrong on these

1. Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor are evil, and seem to be trying to bring back the anti-monitor with that giant tower thing.

2.The Society Luthor was really Alexander Luthor this whole time.

[Pksoze]

Let me know if I am wrong on these

1. Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor are evil, and seem to be trying to bring back the anti-monitor with that giant tower thing.

2.The Society Luthor was really Alexander Luthor this whole time.

1) They're crazy but I wouldn't say they're evil.... they're not trying to bring the anti monitor back, thats a tuning fork the Monitor used in the Crisis. They might be trying to bring earth two back like they said except with more extreme methods.

2)Yup thats right...

[The Ether]

Earth-2 question, What kind of person was Earth-2 Dick Grayson?

#3 was a great read. Love the Luthor/Luthor meet. I suspected there was something wrong with Superboy-prime when he had that discussion with PowerGirl and bursted at his anger against Conner. I'm glad that J'onzz is still alive. Guess that means the JLA can come back again.

[The Ether]

wow, Brad is doing JLA next summer. Sweet :up:

[The Red Skull]

Earth-2 question, What kind of person was Earth-2 Dick Grayson?

Yeah, I'm curious about this too. Earth-2 Grayson... didn't he take over from Bats (in a God-awful costume... seriously, one of the worst ever designed) for years before becoming a talented lawyer? He even took care of Huntress when Earth-2 Bats passed away, right?

And he's less decent than Nightwing, how?

[MaskedManJRK]

Yeah, I'm curious about this too. Earth-2 Grayson... didn't he take over from Bats (in a God-awful costume... seriously, one of the worst ever designed) for years before becoming a talented lawyer? He even took care of Huntress when Earth-2 Bats passed away, right?

And he's less decent than Nightwing, how?

Maybe it's that? I'm reminded of Blade II when he meets Demoskito's main Familiar, Blade says that he's human and he says, "Barely, I'm a lawyer."

Besides, Golden Age Superman IS a socialist...

[The Ether]

Maybe it's that? I'm reminded of Blade II when he meets Demoskito's main Familiar, Blade says that he's human and he says, "Barely, I'm a lawyer."

Besides, Golden Age Superman IS a socialist...
doubt it

[LibrarianThorne]

Yeah, I'm curious about this too. Earth-2 Grayson... didn't he take over from Bats (in a God-awful costume... seriously, one of the worst ever designed) for years before becoming a talented lawyer? He even took care of Huntress when Earth-2 Bats passed away, right?

And he's less decent than Nightwing, how?

Didn't he, too, die before the Crisis on Infinite Earths?

So, our Dick Grayson is better because he has a pulse. >.>

[The Red Skull]

Didn't he, too, die before the Crisis on Infinite Earths?

So, our Dick Grayson is better because he has a pulse. >.>

Good Lord, a Penny Arcader.

[MaskedManJRK]

doubt it

What, the lawyer part or the socialist part? :confused:

[LibrarianThorne]

Good Lord, a Penny Arcader.

?

Something against Penny Arcaders?

[XFanTim]

Earth-2 Robin died along with Earth-2 Huntress (Batman's daughter) in the final issue of Crisis on Infinite Earths. I'm pretty sure that Robin was Dick Grayson.

[Anubis]

Yeah, Robin, Kole, and Huntress all got killed by SHadow Demons.

[LibrarianThorne]

Yeah, Robin, Kole, and Huntress all got killed by SHadow Demons.

So, even if Supes brought Earth-2 back, Dick Grayson would still be dead, right?

[The Red Skull]

?

Something against Penny Arcaders?

Not at all. I'm one myself, after all.

"Red or Alive" (though I post so infrequently I can hardly blame you for not recognising the name).

[cabel]

3 is the best yet, can't wait to see Superboy beat the crap out of SB-Prime

[XFanTim]

So, even if Supes brought Earth-2 back, Dick Grayson would still be dead, right?
Exactly. Although, if he's offering Post-Crisis Batman a place in the new Earth-2, I'm not really sure why he couldn't do the same for Dick.

[stillanerd]

Exactly. Although, if he's offering Post-Crisis Batman a place in the new Earth-2, I'm not really sure why he couldn't do the same for Dick.

Pure nostalgia. On Earth-2, Superman and Batman were the best of friends. On post-crisis Earth, while Superman and Batman didn't exactly see eye to eye on a lot of things, there was a healthy respect for each other. The Earth-2 Superman is gambling on Bruce's kinship with the post-crisis Superman to form an alliance. Furthermore, Kal-L wanted to recapture those glory days where he and Batman once fought side-by-side. That's what he meant he told Bruce he was disapointed and said "It would have been great to have the 'World's Finest' together again," or something to that effect. Nightwing, while he does have a healthy respect for Superman, would've seen right away what Kal-L was trying to do and would've refused outright, and I suspect Kal-L knew this too. Kal-L figured Bruce would be vunerable, but miscalculated his loyalty to his "family."

[The Ether]

3 is the best yet, can't wait to see Superboy beat the crap out of SB-PrimeI don't think Superboy can defeat S-prime that easily, I think he can absorb more rays of the sun then all of the super-family hence the line " you know what I can do when I'm in that yellow sun"

[LadyVader]

Exactly. Although, if he's offering Post-Crisis Batman a place in the new Earth-2, I'm not really sure why he couldn't do the same for Dick.

Well... Nightwing let Tarantula kill Blockbuster in cold blood. Something tells me he's not Earth-2 material, but now that you mention is that what happened to Dick Grayson in that reality? He died?

[The Red Skull]

Well... Nightwing let Tarantula kill Blockbuster in cold blood. Something tells me he's not Earth-2 material, but now that you mention is that what happened to Dick Grayson in that reality? He died?

He and the Huntress were offed in the original Crisis. Having said that... there were no bodies found.

As to how Nightwing is somehow a better man than Earth-2 Grayson, I have no idea. Nobody on this thread has managed to come up with an answer at any rate.

[That-Guy]

Perhaps we're looking at the "who's the better Dick Grayson" line the wrong way. When I read that the first time, my reaction was, "Whoa... what did E2 Dick do that was so bad?" But maybe that isn't what Kal-L meant. Maybe he was simply stating that Earth 1 (or the current Earth in the DCU)'s Dick Grayson is a genuine good guy (according to E2 Superman's standards), and the one from Earth 2 was just as good, just no better. Hence, there wouldn't be any change as far as Dick is concerned. That may be why Superman has such a sad look on his face when Batman asks him about it, because he proved him wrong. E2 Superman was going on and on about how much better everything is on Earth 2, but if "our" Dick Grayson was just as heroic as "their" Dick Grayson, then not everything was better on Earth 2. Remember, in Identity Crisis # 1, Earth 2 Superman regards Nightwing with respect, saying something about how Nightwing is striving to save his city... while he puts down just about everyone else he observes. Maybe Nightwing is going to be the "chosen one" or something. I don't know.

Or maybe he just thinks Earth 1 Dick Grayson is a better person because he's not stupid enough to still be wearing a Robin costume all the way into his thirties.

[XFanTim]

Pure nostalgia. On Earth-2, Superman and Batman were the best of friends. On post-crisis Earth, while Superman and Batman didn't exactly see eye to eye on a lot of things, there was a healthy respect for each other. The Earth-2 Superman is gambling on Bruce's kinship with the post-crisis Superman to form an alliance. Furthermore, Kal-L wanted to recapture those glory days where he and Batman once fought side-by-side. That's what he meant he told Bruce he was disapointed and said "It would have been great to have the 'World's Finest' together again," or something to that effect. Nightwing, while he does have a healthy respect for Superman, would've seen right away what Kal-L was trying to do and would've refused outright, and I suspect Kal-L knew this too. Kal-L figured Bruce would be vunerable, but miscalculated his loyalty to his "family."
OK, I buy that.

[jim lee's bat]

well at least E2 "Dick" had pants

on a more serious note I think you may seriously have something there and it may come into play later on

[jim lee's bat]

he also said conner had potential maybe he doesnt trust superboy prime and eventually realize they did pick the right earth

[XFanTim]

Well... Nightwing let Tarantula kill Blockbuster in cold blood. Something tells me he's not Earth-2 material, but now that you mention is that what happened to Dick Grayson in that reality? He died?They killed Earth-2 Dick and Earth-2 Huntress in the last issue of Crisis . . . basically, the characters had no backstories anymore (since Earth-2 had been retroactively removed from existence), so DC just killed them off to tie up loose ends. At least that's how it seemed to me.

As to how Nightwing is somehow a better man than Earth-2 Grayson, I have no idea. Nobody on this thread has managed to come up with an answer at any rate.I don't think he's really saying Post-Crisis Nightwing is a better person. Batman asks, "Is [Dick] a better man on your Earth than he is on mine?" Given that Earth-2 Supes promised not to lie, he can't say that Dick Grayson is a better man on his Earth (since that would imply Dick still exists on his Earth.) The best he could say is "He was a good man," and obviously Batman would see this statement for what it was, so he just says "no."

[XFanTim]

well at least E2 "Dick" had pants
Didn't "Nightwing:Year One" retcon pants in for the Post-Crisis Dick Grayson? (I mean in the retroactive pre-crisis history of the post-crisis character -- blah, wasn't COIE supposed to make DC continuity less confusing?)

[Ultimate_Superman]

No when Batman asked was Dick better in E-2 and Superman said no he was more or less talking about that Dick was dead. Thats all. People are reading it the wrong way he wasn't talking about better person or anything just that Dick was dead.

[jim lee's bat]

my bad I havent read the issue yet

[The Red Skull]

Right. Yeah, that interpretation does make more sense.

[LadyVader]

Perhaps we're looking at the "who's the better Dick Grayson" line the wrong way. When I read that the first time, my reaction was, "Whoa... what did E2 Dick do that was so bad?" But maybe that isn't what Kal-L meant. Maybe he was simply stating that Earth 1 (or the current Earth in the DCU)'s Dick Grayson is a genuine good guy (according to E2 Superman's standards), and the one from Earth 2 was just as good, just no better. Hence, there wouldn't be any change as far as Dick is concerned. That may be why Superman has such a sad look on his face when Batman asks him about it, because he proved him wrong. E2 Superman was going on and on about how much better everything is on Earth 2, but if "our" Dick Grayson was just as heroic as "their" Dick Grayson, then not everything was better on Earth 2. Remember, in Identity Crisis # 1, Earth 2 Superman regards Nightwing with respect, saying something about how Nightwing is striving to save his city... while he puts down just about everyone else he observes. Maybe Nightwing is going to be the "chosen one" or something. I don't know.

Or maybe he just thinks Earth 1 Dick Grayson is a better person because he's not stupid enough to still be wearing a Robin costume all the way into his thirties.

I don't think that's the way to go since again... our Grayson was basically an acomplice to murder. I agree with Tim, he couldn't say Earth Prime Grayson was a better man because he simply didn't exist anymore.

[The BatDude]

is it me or is earth 2 batman having a better life then earth 1 batman

[jim lee's bat]

had a better life

[XFanTim]

Well, didn't Earth-2 Batman's wife (Catwoman) get killed? Still, at least he had a wife.

[jim lee's bat]

and he had a daughter so he did have the better life (IMO)

[Phoney Bone]

The main cast of 52, from Wizard: Black Adam, Booster Gold, Renee Montoya, Ralph Dibny, Steel, and the Question. Now THERE'S a random comglamation of characters if I ever saw one.

Spoilers for 52 from the Wiz.

Luthor forms is own JLA...Comprised of all new characters and one familiar face (Somehow this screams Booster to me, but would he ever side iwth Luthor?)

An entire country in the DCU is leveled by a power player (Didn't we hear about this before?)

A new female hero takes to the streets of Gotham, they tell us it's not who we think.

Steel: The Consience of the DCU. John Henry Irons is back. Great, cuz I love him.

A new outer space villian.

A shadowy figure is kidnapping all the big brains of the DCU, hoping to alter the future of technology.

A new team of Freedom Fighters!

Renee's gonna have a lot of sex, and one of her lovers is gonna be important to the DCU.

A DCU hero known for doing his job without any real powers will ain some metahuman abilities.

Bats and Robin won't set foot inside Gotham for a year. Why?

A dead DC character will have their grave defaced in a hobbile manner.

The Question is Gotham's new protector.

A former JLAer will contemplate suicide.

Luthor becomes more evil than ever before.

A DC hero is getting married! (CoughBATS)

That team Donna Troy took to space? Not everyone is coming back.

A new Red Tornado

Booster Gold : A-List Hero! (Hell yeah!)

One heroes long quest for respect come to an end when they become the adored leader of their own country (Black Adam?)

Ralph gets some.

A new Dr. Fate

A former JLAer tries to ressurect a dead friend.

Luthor is doing some experiments on MONSTER ISLAND!

Steel's neice makes a decesion that will affect the whole DCU....

Black Adam decides. for REAL this time, who's side he's on.

Two words : Lobo's back.

Renee and Question will be trying to solve a mystery the whole year : Whodunnit?

Two former JLAers who you did't ever expect to hook up will do the nasty.

Each issue of 52 will have a two-page origin story of a DC hero or villian.

A well-established character will make it's first appearance in the DCU (Static?)

A new gay character will debut in 52, will then move on to it's own series.

Booster Gold agains becomes a corporate superhero.

A new character named Supernova starts saving the day in Metropolis. But is he really an established character with a new face?

One of the DCU's biggest heroes will spend the year as a civilian.

One of the six leads of 52 I mentioned earlier won't make it to the end of the year (Best bets, Adam of Montoya)

[Ultimate_Superman]

Already been posted

[Darth Wolverine]

Apparently Question becomes the new Batman as well...I really hope this isn't true.

[GoldenAgeHero]

nah, the question isnt gonan take up the mantle of the bat. dont listen to the posters who say so.

[Doc Destruction]

Not BECOME Batman...do Batman's job. Big difference.

[Tamanon]

Hrm....this is getting pretty dang interesting.

Also, I picked up the Teen Titans Tomorrow arc in TPB. That's actually been VERY interesting with regards to the future. Batwoman is looking exactly like they said. Some bargain with Ra's Al Ghul dealing with deaths......and even the "Fortress of Paradise" which reminds me of the paradise the pre-Crisis folks "broke" out of.

Damn, Infinite Crisis keeps amping it up. Sounds like it'll end with a real bang.

[Sentry2005]

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=52812

Just read this article on newsarama, and i can't help but feel That selina is going to be pregnat with Bruce's kid... like as an act to make some ammends for whatever they've done, Alexander Luthor is going to re-make helena kyle, but as Selina and Bruce's new kid ... just a theory

[Darth Wolverine]

Not BECOME Batman...do Batman's job. Big difference.
Ohhhhhhh...is that what they meant...that should be okay.

[Lazarus440]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/spi440/R2D2IC3.jpg

[drastic_quench]

The Purple Death Ray!

hehehe

I knew that Batman would try to pull a kryptonite beatdown on E-2 Superman.

So it looks like we've met the new Blue Beetle. Jaime. From this and the preview of BB #1 it looks like DC is making him Spider-man (attitude-wise) and the whole kid-in-a-powersuit-who-doesn't-understand-its-powers thing. Meh, that's been done before. It could be good, though.

[drastic_quench]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/spi440/R2D2IC3.jpg

To the right of Black Adam (off picture) is that Lady Quark from COIE? I'm pretty sure it is, though I thought she was dead. Can you make a larger scan that shows that area? Thanks.

[Anubis]

When did they get ahold of Breach?

[Lazarus440]

To the right of Black Adam (off picture) is that Lady Quark from COIE? I'm pretty sure it is, though I thought she was dead. Can you make a larger scan that shows that area? Thanks.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/spi440/ICtower.jpg

[LadyVader]

*gasp*
Look at that... it's The Ray! Poor kid.

[drastic_quench]

Thanks. So I know Manhunter, Black Adam, and that's gotta be Lady Quark, but who are the two bookends - not counting R2D2.

[drastic_quench]

*gasp*
Look at that... it's The Ray! Poor kid.

So that's one down. Who's in the white and red?

[Lazarus440]

So that's one down. Who's in the white and red?
Breach

[Anubis]

When did they get ahold of Breach?

Again......?

[stillanerd]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/spi440/ICtower.jpg

I wonder who the missing slots are going to be for?

And maybe it's just me, but if Alexander Luthor thinks that he can somehow control the left over energy from the Anti-Monitor (the guy who had the power to DESTROY all of the known universe) he's either arrogant as hell or the biggest moron in DC.

[LinternaVerde]

he is a luthor
he is arrogant

[The Batman]

Man...as much as i like Bruce Wayne getting de-jerkified....i really hope they dont marry him off to Selina....

[hippie_hunter]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/spi440/ICtower.jpg

What is R2D2 doing to help the Society :confused:

[The Ether]

They killed Earth-2 Dick and Earth-2 Huntress in the last issue of Crisis . . . basically, the characters had no backstories anymore (since Earth-2 had been retroactively removed from existence), so DC just killed them off to tie up loose ends. At least that's how it seemed to me.

I don't think he's really saying Post-Crisis Nightwing is a better person. Batman asks, "Is [Dick] a better man on your Earth than he is on mine?" Given that Earth-2 Supes promised not to lie, he can't say that Dick Grayson is a better man on his Earth (since that would imply Dick still exists on his Earth.) The best he could say is "He was a good man," and obviously Batman would see this statement for what it was, so he just says "no."
I'm sure E2 Supes can bring him back.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=53204

a look a E2 Batman.

[TheCorpulent1]

I figured Earth-2 Supes said "no" because his Dick was dead, too. After all, Earth-2 Dick was totally a better man. He played it straight his whole life as far as I know. Meanwhile, our Dick has spiraled out of control at the cost of his Outsiders teammates after "Graduation Day," let a criminal be killed when he could've stopped it, gotten drugged and raped by a psycho vigilante chick, botched his relationship with Barbara and crawled back into bed with Starfire for solace, and is currently doing the absolute worst job as an undercover villain in an attempt to infiltrate the Society that doesn't seem to be fooling anybody. I'd say Earth-2 Dick takes it in the good man department.

[MaskedManJRK]

I figured Earth-2 Supes said "no" because his Dick was dead, too. After all, Earth-2 Dick was totally a better man. He played it straight his whole life as far as I know. Meanwhile, our Dick has spiraled out of control at the cost of his Outsiders teammates after "Graduation Day," let a criminal be killed when he could've stopped it, gotten drugged and raped by a psycho vigilante chick, botched his relationship with Barbara and crawled back into bed with Starfire for solace, and is currently doing the absolute worst job as an undercover villain in an attempt to infiltrate the Society that doesn't seem to be fooling anybody. I'd say Earth-2 Dick takes it in the good man department.

Well, most of that takes place during Devin Greyson's run, and I'd be more than willing to think that those pieces of s**t never happened. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, Johns kind of has to think that those events happened because they're part of DC's published continuity now. Hence, E2 Supes' statement that E2 Dick wasn't a better man than post-Crisis Dick is either blatantly false, or it was motivated by the fact that E2 Dick is dead and therefore worse off than post-Crisis Dick, regardless of what a jerkwad post-Crisis Dick may be at times.

[Agentdemon]

nuts and bolts, I finally got this and it was the shiz-nit. I didn't see alexander as alternate luthor and superboy being jonn jonnz captor. All this is crazy but I'm loving every minute.

[Ceb-Man]

Man...as much as i like Bruce Wayne getting de-jerkified....i really hope they dont marry him off to Selina....

agreed. It's even worse that Selina won't be Catwoman.:(

[Anubis]

I figured Earth-2 Supes said "no" because his Dick was dead........

I just thought that was funny.

[yenaled]

I thought it was because he was not better or worse. Saying it isn't all as black and white or good and evil as E-2 Superman is making it out to be.

Remember in IC#1 E-2 Superman talks about Dick saying how he is impressed how he stays and protects his people, that he is a good hero and man. (Can't remember exact words, not got the issue to hand).

I've just started to realise how everything fits into together, it makes perfect sense for Alex Luthor and Superboy-Prime to have started up the four different problems in the DCU.

Spectre destroying magic is obviously the easiest one to understand. What's the biggest threat to Superboy, when we know that kyrptonite has no effect on him - Magic.

R/T War is to open up the Spacetime hole thingy. What ever that brings. It is also to place Cronos at the center of the universe. Which bares a striking resemblence to the Monitors base.

Society was for Alex to controll the villains, and make it so he can capture the people he needs for his machine. Also means he could keep heros occupied while things are set up.

OMAC again to keep heros occupied, especially Batman and Wonder Woman and take out the most powerful ones.

Also, I definatly think Psycho Pirate will be revealed to be working with Alex.

I think as well it all plays into Alex and Superboy-Prime making E-2 Superman believe that this planet is corrupt and needs destroying. I wonder if Lois' illness is anything to do with Alex?

And my God, what an awesome issue it was. Did anyone else get all fanboy happy when Lex's suit blew off and he was wearing the pre-crisis purple with black X costume.

Oh, and Alex having one of the Mointors tuning forks and some of the anti-monitors body just blew me away. I thought we'd never ever see those things in a comic again.

[Doc Destruction]

I know I did. That look made me really dig the purple/green combo for costumes.

[Tojo]

Edit- Nvm

[TheCorpulent1]

Psycho Pirate's been working with the Society all along, so he's already been shown working with Alex Luthor.

I wasn't too surprised that Superboy Prime was the one tearing up the Watchtower. It was kind of obvious when he was getting all evil earlier in the issue. But I have to admit, I was surprised when the Society Lex turned out to be Alex Luthor. I hope the real Lex ends up fully functional by the end of it all, though. Crazy Lex is only fun in small doses. Manipulative businessman/scientist Lex is much more interesting.

[MatchesMalone77]

Remember in Superman/Batman when Earth-2 Superman went back in time to warn both Bats and Supes? And before he faded he said "Don't trust Luthor"
This series is kick-@ss..... An evil Superboy, a new Blue Beetle and Lex Luthor having his arrogant @ss handed to him.....BY HIS SON!!!!

[TheCorpulent1]

That was the Kingdom Come Superman, wasn't it? He wasn't wearing the E2 costume, at least.

[raybia]

I thought it was because he was not better or worse. Saying it isn't all as black and white or good and evil as E-2 Superman is making it out to be.

Remember in IC#1 E-2 Superman talks about Dick saying how he is impressed how he stays and protects his people, that he is a good hero and man. (Can't remember exact words, not got the issue to hand).

I've just started to realise how everything fits into together, it makes perfect sense for Alex Luthor and Superboy-Prime to have started up the four different problems in the DCU.

Spectre destroying magic is obviously the easiest one to understand. What's the biggest threat to Superboy, when we know that kyrptonite has no effect on him - Magic.

R/T War is to open up the Spacetime hole thingy. What ever that brings. It is also to place Cronos at the center of the universe. Which bares a striking resemblence to the Monitors base.

Society was for Alex to controll the villains, and make it so he can capture the people he needs for his machine. Also means he could keep heros occupied while things are set up.

OMAC again to keep heros occupied, especially Batman and Wonder Woman and take out the most powerful ones.

Also, I definatly think Psycho Pirate will be revealed to be working with Alex.

I think as well it all plays into Alex and Superboy-Prime making E-2 Superman believe that this planet is corrupt and needs destroying. I wonder if Lois' illness is anything to do with Alex?

And my God, what an awesome issue it was. Did anyone else get all fanboy happy when Lex's suit blew off and he was wearing the pre-crisis purple with black X costume.

Oh, and Alex having one of the Mointors tuning forks and some of the anti-monitors body just blew me away. I thought we'd never ever see those things in a comic again.

The thing I cannot figure out, what is Alex and Superboy's motivation for bring back Earth-2?

[LadyVader]

I hope its the fact that theyre just plain evil. I dont think I could take another big reveal!

[raybia]

I hope its the fact that theyre just plain evil. I dont think I could take another big reveal!


I cannot buy that especially when you read the original Crisis. There is no hint of evil from either. So what has happen since then for them to make a 180?

I guess there hasn't any clues to that yet.

[yenaled]

The thing I cannot figure out, what is Alex and Superboy's motivation for bring back Earth-2?

I don't think he is.

He seems to have people from the last multiple worlds strapped up. I think if anything he is trying to bring back all Multiple Worlds. So he can have Earth-3 back and Superboy Prime can have his world.

But to be honest, this series offers so many curveballs, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't planning something all together different. I hope he isn't just being evil for evils sake, but being from Earth-3 him turning evil is as normal as a villain getting a moral backbone and turning good in the normal DCU.

Psycho Pirate's been working with the Society all along, so he's already been shown working with Alex Luthor.

I mean, knowingly working with Alex. Knowing who Alex is and helping him bring back a Multiverse. The 4 different miniseries problems are kind of emotionally based - I really wouldn't be surprised if Pyscho Pirate has had a big power upgrade and is causing the anger and "corruption" of Earth.

[Anubis]

Well, you gotta remember that the Crisis wasn't really about good and evil. It was about Survival. The villians were working with the heros for christ sakes. I had a theory about this with Alex, that, he is from the original CSA universe. Where everybody was evil, and his father was the only good guy, so, who is to say he wasn't really supposed to be evil like everybody else? I mean, he never really had time during the crisis to do anything like what he's doing now. He went from newborn to 20 year old in a couple of days. Plus, 20 years in a bubble can drive anybody nuts. At least Supes had Lois, what did S-Boy and Alex have? As far as Superboy Prime, well, I figure he's one part jelously, one part manipulation by Alex.

[Fnkdr]

First I would like to say whats up to everyone on the hype. I dont really ever post but I like to read everyone's opinions. If alexander was the society luthor, is purple green lex our post crisis lex which is confusing because when his suit exploded he is wearing his classic silver age E-1 costume that he is not known for wearing post crisis

[batnkevlar]

I read the new OMAC Project tpb, and when Rocket Red gave himself up, it was actually sad... and what's the status on Bordeaux?

[BrianWilly]

Finally got a copy of this! Man, being on break is nice, but it takes me far far away from my regular shop.

Okay first of all, I didn't get Aquaman last week which is supposed to go into the Spectre's attack in detail...but did Tempest just die or something:(:(?? This issue was really vague on what exactly happened, but I don't see how anyone could survive gigantic Spectre fist slamming down on a whole city, lifting it up, and then squeezing it into chunks. I don't think they'd kill off all those people without fanfare...but then again, this entire series is one gigantic eventful fanfare...

I don't think it makes sense for Superman-2 to say "Your Dick Grayson is better than mine because mine is dead" because if being dead was an automatic criterion for making you worse, then Batman of Earth-2 would be worse than "our" Batman, wouldn't he? Kal-L obviously doesn't think that. And if Superman-2 has his way aka turning this Earth into his Earth, both Batman and Dick Grayson of this Earth would, theoretically, turn into their Earth-2 counterparts.

I'll need a bit more revelation before I can understand why Alex Luthor has become suddenly so manipulative and scheming, but I can totally understand how Superboy-Prime has become like this. He's lost everything he ever had, sacrificed everything he ever loved...and here's Conner Kent, who has everything that S-Prime has ever wanted -- loving family, lifelong friends, and beautiful girlfriend -- and is just whining about it all. Not to mention, all those sacrifices he made for what he thought was the right thing?...turns out it wasn't. "It's not fair! It's just not...We did everything right...and we lost everything because of it...I don't want to lose Lois, too. I can't."

Remember what Mr. Mxy said in that past issue of Superman where he gave Clark and Lois glances at their future daughter? "Everything that happens...it's all because of you two, you know."
Look at what's going on now...Superman-2 and Superboy-Prime are doing everything they can possibly do to change this Earth because Lois is dying. It's simply uncanny, the way they had all this thought out.

[Assassin]

Just proves, no matter what earth, you can never trust a luthor

[Lone]

Is The Question gonna be the new Batman?

Hmm...I have a feeling that Black Adam is gonna be the new Spectre..:o

[GoldenAgeHero]

Is The Question gonna be the new Batman?

Hmm...I have a feeling that Black Adam is gonna be the new Spectre..:o
the question will not be the new batman. he will be the new hero of gotham, but he will never be in the cape.

[Anubis]

^ What he said.

[Lone]

the question will not be the new batman. he will be the new hero of gotham, but he will never be in the cape.

Thanks for clearing that up.:up:

Damn...a Gotham without a Batman?:(

[MaskedManJRK]

Thanks for clearing that up.:up:

Damn...a Gotham without a Batman?:(

But only for a year, so turn that frown upside down! :)

[Jono87]

The thing I cannot figure out, what is Alex and Superboy's motivation for bring back Earth-2? The greatest villains are those whose actions are perpetrated for resons they feel are justified and right. Alex and Superboy may be sitting in their hidden lair building a doomsday machine while plotting how to defeat their enemies. However, they are only doing this for one reason, that being that they want to save the "mother" they have gained in E-2 Lois. Issue 3 made this perfectly clear...at least to me. Superboy told Powergirl that the only way to save Lois was to bring back E-2 after asking her if she was going to let Lois die.

[The Red Skull]

Superboy wears his heart on his sleeve. I think he's simply looking out for Lois Lane.

Alex, on the other hand, seems too cold, too calculating. He gives the impression that he's out for himself. This might just be a character trait, but he's been seen to be manipulating his supposed friends since issue one of 'Crisis.

I still think the big villain of the piece has yet to be revealed. Just an intuition.

[The Flash!]

But only for a year, so turn that frown upside down! :)

Gotham without Batman is like peanut butter without jelly. :(

[The Flash!]

double post

[The Flash!]

sorry triple post.

[BrianWilly]

In his interviews, DiDio has mentioned that Alex Luthor has a very practical and scientific approach to things, which means his approach to a Crisis like this is a very utilitarian, "for the greater good" sort of mindset; he's not out to make friends, he's here to do what's necessary. Also, DiDio pointed out that "being locked in a timeless dimension can create a distorted point of view of actual events."

I hope that they have a bigger, more in-depth reason for Alex's actions, but little comments like those go a long way.

[That-Guy]

Am I the only one who is a little irritated that Alex now appears to be a villain? Maybe we'll find out that he is being manipulated by something more powerful, but if not... to me, making Alex the big bad guy (or one of the big bad guys) feels like a cop-out to me. To me, it sort of pisses on the original Crisis, because Alex was an all-around good guy. For him to suddenly turn evil or deranged enough that he would wipe out a universe just to "fix" things feels totally out of character; I just think that DC's banking on the idea that if they make him the villain, no one will really mind because he hasn't shown up since COIE. If they made the big villain a prominent hero in the DCU, like Batman or Superman, that would profoundly piss people off, but making it some guy who only ever showed up in one major story 20 years ago probably won't bother too many people, right? Maybe so... but look at it this way: if the Anti-Monitor showed up and became a hero, that wouldn't work, would it?

[Lazarus440]

god i hope this next ish isn't late.

[Brainiac 8]

Is The Question gonna be the new Batman?

Hmm...I have a feeling that Black Adam is gonna be the new Spectre..:o

My theory is that Batman is going to be the new Spectre. I got the idea in issue one. The picture above gotham, when Spectre was overlooking the city, the bat signal was centered on his chest. A bit of foreshadowing maybe is what I'm thinking. Plus you take the "Sins" of Batman, him creating Brother Eye, thus the O.M.A.C.S., all because he didn't trust the people around him. He is indirectly responsible for many of the things going one right now.

I think our poor Bruce is going to be the new Spectre, not Black Adam.:(

[Darth Wolverine]

My theory is that Batman is going to be the new Spectre. I got the idea in issue one. The picture above gotham, when Spectre was overlooking the city, the bat signal was centered on his chest. A bit of foreshadowing maybe is what I'm thinking. Plus you take the "Sins" of Batman, him creating Brother Eye, thus the O.M.A.C.S., all because he didn't trust the people around him. He is indirectly responsible for many of the things going one right now.

I think our poor Bruce is going to be the new Spectre, not Black Adam.:(

Ah-ha! Someone agrees with me! I thought that as soon as I saw that panel in issue #1. I posted it on an RPG board I used to go to, but they thought it was ridiculous. But hey, speculation's supposed to be ridiculous, right?:up:

[OtepApe]

I am not too sure about Bruce becoming The Spectre. Yes we saw that image in issue one, but I think it was a little obvious and probably a red herring.

[Brainiac 8]

Ah-ha! Someone agrees with me! I thought that as soon as I saw that panel in issue #1. I posted it on an RPG board I used to go to, but they thought it was ridiculous. But hey, speculation's supposed to be ridiculous, right?:up:


In interviews they said a major hero would be replaced by their protage', if Batman becomes Spectre, who better to take his place than Dick Grayson.

I hope we're wrong, but it makes too much sense. I'm almost 100% sure it'll be poor Bruce.:(

[Brainiac 8]

I am not too sure about Bruce becoming The Spectre. Yes we saw that image in issue one, but I think it was a little obvious and probably a red herring.

I actually hope your right Otepape, and it is a red herring.:)

Hope for the best, fear for the worst they always say.

[Pksoze]

Am I the only one who is a little irritated that Alex now appears to be a villain? Maybe we'll find out that he is being manipulated by something more powerful, but if not... to me, making Alex the big bad guy (or one of the big bad guys) feels like a cop-out to me. To me, it sort of pisses on the original Crisis, because Alex was an all-around good guy. For him to suddenly turn evil or deranged enough that he would wipe out a universe just to "fix" things feels totally out of character; I just think that DC's banking on the idea that if they make him the villain, no one will really mind because he hasn't shown up since COIE. If they made the big villain a prominent hero in the DCU, like Batman or Superman, that would profoundly piss people off, but making it some guy who only ever showed up in one major story 20 years ago probably won't bother too many people, right? Maybe so... but look at it this way: if the Anti-Monitor showed up and became a hero, that wouldn't work, would it?

I can buy it, provided Johns writes his motivations well.

He grew up in a week, he really didn't have a personality in the crisis. Turning him into a villain doesn't upset me for the reasons you state.

Besides he's a Luthor.

As for being upset if Kal L turns heel...yeah I would. Bias towards a prominent hero over Alex...yeah and I don't care.

[Nightwing]

My theory is that Batman is going to be the new Spectre. I got the idea in issue one. The picture above gotham, when Spectre was overlooking the city, the bat signal was centered on his chest. A bit of foreshadowing maybe is what I'm thinking. Plus you take the "Sins" of Batman, him creating Brother Eye, thus the O.M.A.C.S., all because he didn't trust the people around him. He is indirectly responsible for many of the things going one right now.

I think our poor Bruce is going to be the new Spectre, not Black Adam.:(

Out of the two? I would supsect him to be Spectre if it happens.Theres not a chance he'd be Black Adam.As seen in issue #1 ofcourse.If he does then its obvious Dick will replace him as the new Batman.There are rumors going around that Dick is no longer under the mask of Nightwing in OYL.Bruce dissapears for one year while the Question takes his place as Gothams new defender for the time being.Tim Drake remains as Robin as we all know,but what about Jason Todd?In Nightwing OYL cover hes shown in NYC holding the Red Hood knife and etc....Thats such a big clue or unless its actually Dick holding the knife cause he killed Jason with it.If not all fingers point to Dick as taking the mantle of the Bat which I dont mind.

All puzzles have their pieces gentlemen,we'll all soon figure it out I would hope.http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

My theory.

[Lazarus440]

Out of the two? I would supsect him to be Spectre if it happens.Theres not a chance he'd be Black Adam.As seen in issue #1 ofcourse.If he does then its obvious Dick will replace him as the new Batman.There are rumors going around that Dick is no longer under the mask of Nightwing in OYL.Bruce dissapears for one year while the Question takes his place as Gothams new defender for the time being.Tim Drake remains as Robin as we all know,but what about Jason Todd?In Nightwing OYL cover hes shown in NYC holding the Red Hood knife and etc....Thats such a big clue or unless its actually Dick holding the knife cause he killed Jason with it.If not all fingers point to Dick as taking the mantle of the Bat which I dont mind.

All puzzles have their pieces gentlemen,we'll all soon figure it out I would hope.http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

My theory.
where is that cover?

[Nightwing]

where is that cover?

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/1605/nightwing1183yg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://imageshack.us/)

[Lazarus440]

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/1605/nightwing1183yg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://imageshack.us/)
thank you.

you know it may be paint, you know someone trying to paint like jackson pollock.

[Nightwing]

thank you.

you know it may be paint, you know someone trying to paint like jackson pollock.

Maybe but I dont think so,why would they do that?

[batnkevlar]

Dick SHOULD kill Jason... horrible irony, in a way...

[Lazarus440]

Maybe but I dont think so,why would they do that?
one year later ***** a painter and kyle Rayner is trapise artist.

[Lazarus440]

dick becomes jewish and has to Circumcise himself?

[Nightwing]

Dick SHOULD kill Jason... horrible irony, in a way...

He wont,read my theory.If its true that Dick is no longer under the mask of Nightwing,who better to replace him but his adoptive brother?

[That-Guy]

dick becomes jewish and has to Circumcise himself?


Ouch... I was just reminded of one of the most gruesome sequences of Nip/Tuck.

[GoldenAgeHero]

In interviews they said a major hero would be replaced by their protage', if Batman becomes Spectre, who better to take his place than Dick Grayson.

I hope we're wrong, but it makes too much sense. I'm almost 100% sure it'll be poor Bruce.:(

batman won't become the new spectre please stop spreading these damn rumors. and batman will not be replaced by the question nor will the question be the new batman, he will be the new detective of gotham. finally, batman isnt the only one that has a protege.

[Doc Destruction]

Dick SHOULD kill Jason... horrible irony, in a way...

The hell with that! Jason is a far more interesting character than Dick right now, anyway. I WOULD like to see Dick as Batman though.

[Doc Destruction]

batman won't become the new spectre please stop spreading these damn rumors. and batman will not be replaced by the question nor will the question be the new batman, he will be the new detective of gotham. finally, batman isnt the only one that has a protege.

And what exactly is YOUR source?

[GoldenAgeHero]

And what exactly is YOUR source?

common sense and logic, thats more source.:rolleyes:



anywho never claimed mine to be fact, but i think its a little more relaible.bruce being the new spectre? come on, seriously it just wont happen, and you dont need no eliable source just to figure that out. the whole thing is gonna be for one year which is pretty much pointless to have bruce be the spectre or one year when hal was spectre for like what 4-5 years? it just won't happen that way. plus batman isnt the only one with a protege, plain and simple so you cant immediatly say bruce is gonna die and be replaced by dick and become the new spectre.

[Darth Wolverine]

GoldenAgeHero, this is a time for SPECULATION. If everyone only said what was going to happen, they'd have to wait until it happened, and also not state their own opinions/views. If everyone thoguht the same thing, this board would be VERY boring.

[storyteller]

Honestly if superman didnt stay dead, batman aint getting replaced. I think wonder woman might get it.

[storyteller]

Honestly if superman didnt stay dead, batman aint getting replaced. I think aquaman(with the new aquaman theres supposed to be) might get it of hawkman or green arrow.

[TheCorpulent1]

Aquaman's not dying. Busiek has said that Orin will play some role in Sword of Atlantis after IC.

[stillanerd]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?

[deathshead2]

I like all those ideas.

[The Batman]

common sense and logic, thats more source.:rolleyes:






Dammit...I was gonna tell him that...

[The Batman]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?


I went to that link...i never knew a human being could make up so much BS....

[raybia]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?


HOLY S***! WOW!

[raybia]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?


HOLY S***! WOW!

[Nightwing]

How the hell,Could Batman get shot? That would never happen.From all that I read I knew it would be Jason whose Nightwing,its most likely him under the mask.

[stillanerd]

I went to that link...i never knew a human being could make up so much BS....

I really, REALLY do hope the guy is spouting BS because if DC is seriously taking Batman in this direction, then the it will make the Clone Saga look like Shakespeare. Although what he says about Earth 2 Lois Lane kind of makes sense.

[GoldenAgeHero]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?


teh BS!! teh big BS, teh pile of manure crap and clone saga put together BS!!!!! there is no way in hell all this bull is gonan happen. i do belive the bit about bruces being the father. the rest can burn in hell, along with the poster who posted this here.

[TheCorpulent1]

Screw the rest of that crap about Batman and his people, I want to know just why the hell Jay Garrick is going to need a replacement in the JSA! Jay's a cornerstone of the JSA, he can't die or retire or do anything stupid like that.

And seriously, what is up with the Spectre? Is he now just a placeholder for every major hero who dies until they get resurrected? Lame.

Considering that stuff came form another message board, though, I'd say it's just speculation, same as most of the stuff on this board.

[stillanerd]

teh BS!! teh big BS, teh pile of manure crap and clone saga put together BS!!!!! there is no way in hell all this bull is gonan happen. i do belive the bit about bruces being the father. the rest can burn in hell, along with the poster who posted this here.

Got a pitchfork I can borrow?:)

BTW, let me clarify and say THIS WAS SOMEONE ELSE'S POST ON ANOTHER BOARD. And yes, with the exception of Bruce being the father the rest of it can "burn in hell" as far as I'm concerned.

[The Dude]

Despite this being complete BS some of the ideas there are interesting. I never said they were good ideas, but interesting.

[BrianWilly]

Let me join in with everyone's BS-detector:

That sht is total BS.

Considering that Giffen has said Ted Kord will play little to no direct part in the next Beetle series, someone's been pulling things out of their ass a little too hard.

[The BatDude]

wow im stunned by the bull****

[Lone]

My theory is that Batman is going to be the new Spectre. I got the idea in issue one. The picture above gotham, when Spectre was overlooking the city, the bat signal was centered on his chest. A bit of foreshadowing maybe is what I'm thinking. Plus you take the "Sins" of Batman, him creating Brother Eye, thus the O.M.A.C.S., all because he didn't trust the people around him. He is indirectly responsible for many of the things going one right now.

I think our poor Bruce is going to be the new Spectre, not Black Adam.:(

Bruce becoming Spectre is too obvious...the thing that got me thinking that Black Adam might be the new Spectre was the part where he got jumped on by Luthor's goons.

Plus, Black Adam has sins up the wazoo I should think.:O

[The Flash!]

Bruce getting shot?HELL NO!!!

I agree its all a bunch of BS.

[Lazarus]

how can batman get shot, die, become the spectre, get taken to a Lazarus pit get reserected and still have time to knock up catwoman? i mean hes batman that is his life, its not like hes daredevil useing the fact that he has powers and his a superhero to get laid.

[TheCorpulent1]

He seemed pretty ready to bone Catwoman in "Hush."

[The Flash!]

He seemed pretty ready to bone Catwoman in "Hush."

So true.

[regwec]

Batman has boned both Catwoman and Talia numerous times, as well as "civilians" like Silver St Cloud.

[Darth Wolverine]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?

The most shocking thing about all this is that someone actually believes that garbage.

[Darth Wolverine]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?

The most shocking thing about all this is that someone actually believes some of that garbage.

[The Watchman]

Bruce becoming Spectre is too obvious...the thing that got me thinking that Black Adam might be the new Spectre was the part where he got jumped on by Luthor's goons.

Plus, Black Adam has sins up the wazoo I should think.:O
Crispus Allen will be the new Spectre, mark my words. :up:

[TheCorpulent1]

Better than losing him completely, I suppose.

[The Watchman]

I wanted him as the new commish, the new Jim Gordon, he has(d) so much damn potential. :(

[TheCorpulent1]

I know, his death sucked. :(

[The Watchman]

but it wasn't cheap, it was powerful and well executed, I would never be a "Hawkeye" moaner, I was just sad to see him go, but Rucka did it well and shockced the hell out of me.

[Ceb-Man]

I wanted him as the new commish, the new Jim Gordon, he has(d) so much damn potential. :(

agreed.
Now there is a listing in the upcoming solits about a new commissioner.
Who do you guys think it is?

[Tamanon]

I'm trying to remember who the new Commissioner was in Titans Tomorrow, a lot of events are falling that way. I believe it was Montoya?

[stillanerd]

Crispus Allen will be the new Spectre, mark my words. :up:

Now that would be a great move by DC if they are indeed going to do that. However, another possible candidate is Jim Corrigan, also in Gotham Central. Remember, that was the name of the Spectre's original host, and in order to become the Spectre's host, you have to atone for past sins and redeem yourself, which the current Corrigan definately needs plenty of.

As for the new commissioner, Renee Montoya seems logical. However, DC has said someplace that when Batman and Robin return to Gotham, they find that the new commissioner is corrupt, which doesn't fit with Renee. Besides, Wizard wasn't exactly hiding the fact that she's going to become The New Batwoman . Also, according to what Steve Englehart gave in an interview to an online radio show, they told him they were going to bring Gordon back into the main titles sometime after Infinite Crisis.

[batnkevlar]

When did Gordon die?

[Ceb-Man]

Gordon hasn't died. He just retired as police commissioner and Michael Atkins took his place.

[Nightwing]

Now that would be a great move by DC if they are indeed going to do that. However, another possible candidate is Jim Corrigan, also in Gotham Central. Remember, that was the name of the Spectre's original host, and in order to become the Spectre's host, you have to atone for past sins and redeem yourself, which the current Corrigan definately needs plenty of.

As for the new commissioner, Renee Montoya seems logical. However, DC has said someplace that when Batman and Robin return to Gotham, they find that the new commissioner is corrupt, which doesn't fit with Renee. Besides, Wizard wasn't exactly hiding the fact that she's going to become The New Batwoman . Also, according to what Steve Englehart gave in an interview to an online radio show, they told him they were going to bring Gordon back into the main titles sometime after Infinite Crisis.

Wizard said this?Hmm...Not sure is she can do it,not that I actually believe this until I see it with my own eyes.

[Ceb-Man]

I hope that doesn't happen to Renee Montoya!!!

[TheCorpulent1]

I could see her going that way pretty logically from where she is in Gotham Central, actually. She's been sliding further and further into a self-destructive depression, due in part to the fact that trying to work within the law in such a corrupt system has nearly cost her a few cases. Now her partner's been killed as a result of that very same corrupt system, and in part because of her actions. Vigilantism's only a hop away from that mindset.

[Anubis]

I'd rather see her become the new Spectre. How can she be the new Batwoman? She's got no freakin training. It's stupid.

And why the hell am I putting speculative crap in spoiler tags? BATWOMAN. They said that she might be the new Batwoman. God.

[Nightwing]

I could see her going that way pretty logically from where she is in Gotham Central, actually. She's been sliding further and further into a self-destructive depression, due in part to the fact that trying to work within the law in such a corrupt system has nearly cost her a few cases. Now her partner's been killed as a result of that very same corrupt system, and in part because of her actions. Vigilantism's only a hop away from that mindset.

Yes she could be driven to head in that direction because of her partners death and etc.That I agree with.

How is her fighting skills?

[Nightwing]

I'd rather see her become the new Spectre. How can she be the new Batwoman? She's got no freakin training. It's stupid.

And why the hell am I putting speculative crap in spoiler tags? BATWOMAN. They said they she might be the new Batwoman. God.

Thats what Im saying,why would they put someone in the suit like her?

[Anubis]

Just dumb@$$es making stuff up.

[GoldenAgeHero]

yeah montoya doesnt any mantle of the bat nor do i want her as the new spectre, taht'll suck.

[Anubis]

Yes, we all know you hate women, can we move on please? :rolleyes:

[TheCorpulent1]

I wouldn't want her to be the new Batwoman either. I'm just saying I could see the basis for the speculation. Her demeanor's going to match up pretty well with Batman's if she keeps going the way she has been, and we're talking about a post-OYL thing here. It's not a huge stretch to imagine someone who already has a great natural fighting ability and training as a police officer training herself up to the level of a decent vigilante in a year.

Look at the new Manhunter. She didn't have any training before the first issue of her series. Montoya's better off now than she was, and she could add another year of training onto that. Would she be Batman's equal? Obviously not. But she'd be able to hold her own with some good equipment and the mystique of the "Bat-" label. It's no more ridiculous than the theory that Barbara might become Batwoman. She had training, sure, but the woman hasn't moved her legs in years. That would require a whole new training regimen to overcome all the atrophy and basically re-learn how to use her legs for the kind of intense stuff she'd be doing.

[GoldenAgeHero]

Yes, we all know you hate women, can we move on please? :rolleyes: no i dont, i collected batgirl issue 50 and up and i have all the manhunter comics, i dont see how i hate woman.

[Anubis]

Yeah, but we already saw in wizard what they said she would be doing in OYL, and thats sleeping around and basically becoming DC's Jessica Jones.

[Anubis]

no i dont, i collected batgirl issue 50 and up and i have all the manhunter comics, i dont see how i hate woman.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but we already saw in wizard what they said she would be doing in OYL, and thats sleeping around and basically becoming DC's Jessica Jones.
Yeah, which is why I don't put much stock in the theory.

[Anubis]

Now her becoming the Spectre, I can see. Cuz she's likely to kill Corrigan. And he's waaayy too bad a guy to get a second chance. It's usually a basically decent guy, who did something he needs redemption for. Corrigan has been nothing but an evil son of a b***h. That guys got a one way ticket to hell. SO I figure he's a red herring. SO, say she kills him, and gets fired. Then spends OYL helping the Question with whatever the hell it is she's supposed to help him with, and she ends up being the main character who gets killed at the end of OYL, and she becomes the Spectre. Thats my Theory.

[Nightwing]

Now her becoming the Spectre, I can see. Cuz she's likely to kill Corrigan. And he's waaayy too bad a guy to get a second chance. It's usually a basically decent guy, who did something he needs redemption for. Corrigan has been nothing but an evil son of a b***h. That guys got a one way ticket to hell. SO I figure he's a red herring. SO, say she kills him, and gets fired. Then spends OYL helping the Question with whatever the hell it is she's supposed to help him with, and she ends up being the main character who gets killed at the end of OYL, and she becomes the Spectre. Thats my Theory.

I like your theory,but I dont want her running around as Spectre.The Spectre should be someone else,dont know who though.I just want regular Montoya helping the Question find his answers and etc....

[TheCorpulent1]

I kind of hope she stays alive. I'm bored of the revolving-door Spectre. Find someone who'd work as the Spectre (that isn't Montoya, in my opinion) and stick with them.

[stillanerd]

Just dumb@$$es making stuff up.

Okay, remember that latest issue of Wizard that came out that had all those hints about what was going to happen during 52? They gave a list of "The Main Players." One of them was Renee Montoya, whom they described as "The Drunk Knight" which is not only a pun on "The Dark Knight" but makes reference to fact that Renee becomes an alcoholic due to what happened in Gotham Central. You can also see a pun when it their summation of Renee's storyline "DC's Drunk Detective." Just replace the word "Drunk" with "Dark." Also it says that she's has to "find her way back to respectability" and is teaming up with the Question in order to solve a year long mystery. Also, the new Batwoman primers in 52, and if you're going to introduce a new costumed heroine and one of the main characters is Renee, then it would make sense that they would be one and the same. Seems to me that Wizard is making all too blanant hints that Renee will be the new Batwoman.

[TheCorpulent1]

What? Batwoman debuts in 52 and Renee's in 52 so they must be the same?? Brilliant logic there...

The drunk knight/detective puns could simply have come about because she's a Gotham mainstay. She doesn't necessarily have to be donning a mask.

Finding her way back to respectability doesn't relate at all to a costumed identity. I don't know where you get that from. She's lost her respectability already thanks to the stuff going on in Gotham Central, and becoming a vigilante wouldn't help her regain any respectability. As for working with the Question, Gotham cops worked with vigilantes all the time before "War Games."

Sure, it's possible that she could be Batwoman. But it's all speculative at this point. None of the things you pointed out are as definitive as you seemed to take them.

[deemar325]

What? Batwoman debuts in 52 and Renee's in 52 so they must be the same?? Brilliant logic there...

The drunk knight/detective puns could simply have come about because she's a Gotham mainstay. She doesn't necessarily have to be donning a mask.

Finding her way back to respectability doesn't relate at all to a costumed identity. I don't know where you get that from. She's lost her respectability already thanks to the stuff going on in Gotham Central, and becoming a vigilante wouldn't help her regain any respectability. As for working with the Question, Gotham cops worked with vigilantes all the time before "War Games."

Sure, it's possible that she could be Batwoman. But it's all speculative at this point. None of the things you pointed out are as definitive as you seemed to take them.

Isn't 52 going to introduce a gay character? maybe Montoya as a lesbian Batwoman.

[deemar325]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?

As unlikely as it sounds, especially the Lois thing, it would be cool!

[stillanerd]

What? Batwoman debuts in 52 and Renee's in 52 so they must be the same?? Brilliant logic there...

Look, one of the subplots in 52 invovles the origin of Batwoman, right. Also, you've got Renee playing a prominent part in 52. For the sake of economy in writing, wouldn't it make sense for the writers of the series to tie Renee and Batwoman together? You yourself said:

I could see her going that way pretty logically from where she is in Gotham Central, actually.

The drunk knight/detective puns could simply have come about because she's a Gotham mainstay. She doesn't necessarily have to be donning a mask.

Then why call her the "Drunk Knight?" Clearly, Wizard is implying not only her alcoholism but is also purposefully invoking the image of Batman. Oh, and if you are going to respond to that by saying Wizard also called The Question "The New Batman" everybody who read the article knows they mean Vic is going to act as Gotham's protector while Batman's gone and is not going to be Batman himself, especially when they mention how Batman and Robin won't step in Gotham for a year (meaning they'll eventually come back) and they show a Batman in the March solits

Finding her way back to respectability doesn't relate at all to a costumed identity. I don't know where you get that from. She's lost her respectability already thanks to the stuff going on in Gotham Central, and becoming a vigilante wouldn't help her regain any respectability. As for working with the Question, Gotham cops worked with vigilantes all the time before "War Games."

Perhaps her becoming Batwoman is a way for Renee to regain respect for herself. Remember, she idolizes Batman, so perhaps she becomes inspired by him by donning a costume with Bat motiffs. I'm sure she's going to find her way back to being a respected police detective as well during 52. Also the Question is not exactly one to trust authority of any kind, conspiracy nut that he is. He'd rather cooperate with another vigilante (like a Batwoman) whom he can gradually learn to trust than work directly with the police.

Sure, it's possible that she could be Batwoman. But it's all speculative at this point. None of the things you pointed out are as definitive as you seemed to take them.

I know its speculative on my part, but I also don't think Wizard is really trying to hide the possibility either. Besides, I can't exactly see Batgirl becoming the new Batwoman because: 1. she's Robin's age and still too young to be "a woman." and 2. She might not be around anymore once her series gets wrapped up in February. And as for Oracle being Batwoman, that's out the window too. The March solicts for Birds of Prey show her in the helicopter, if you look close enough.

[batnkevlar]

Renee isn't that good of a fighter to be Batwoman...

[The Flash!]

Woah woah woah,I really DONT want her as Batwoman.

[stillanerd]

Renee isn't that good of a fighter to be Batwoman...

Maybe not, but you're forgetting that she was trained and is a police officer. In order to become a cop, she was required to go through a police academy, where she not only learned things like basic law and criminal detection, but was certainly required to take self-defense classes, especially since she'd have to know how to take down suspects and protect herself from attacks.

[raybia]

Maybe not, but you're forgetting that she was trained and is a police officer. In order to become a cop, she was required to go through a police academy, where she not only learned things like basic law and criminal detection, but was certainly required to take self-defense classes, especially since she'd have to know how to take down suspects and protect herself from attacks.

It shouldn't be that easy to become a superhero.

Thats like a weekend warrior at the Y deciding to become an Olympian.


It also makes a mockery out of much hard work that Batman put into himself to be able to become an extraordinary human being.

Maybe they should have her become Batwoman only to have her beaten and killed to show that its not as easy as Batman, Nightwing and Robin make it appear.

[regwec]

She doesn't have to be as tough or skilled as Bruce to be Batwoman. Dick and Cassandra do not have Bruce's genius, yet they are still integral members of the Bat-family.

[raybia]

She doesn't have to be as tough or skilled as Bruce to be Batwoman. Dick and Cassandra do not have Bruce's genius, yet they are still integral members of the Bat-family.


Yeah but Dick and Cassandra's skill, experience and training far exceeds that of a police office and the average human being. In fact I would say it exceeds olypmic and special ops training.

Could Olympians, Green Berets and Rangers in the DC Universe become superheroes merely by putting on some tights and giving themselves a fancy name?

[Anubis]

Well, a rich dude can pick up a bow and arrow and become a superhero. Of course that took years of being stranded on an island with the bow being your only means of survival. Fact, is, it's not enough time for her to become a hero. Takes years of training. I really don't see this happening because I don't think the folks at DC would do something that stupid.

[stillanerd]

Well, a rich dude can pick up a bow and arrow and become a superhero. Of course that took years of being stranded on an island with the bow being your only means of survival. Fact, is, it's not enough time for her to become a hero. Takes years of training. I really don't see this happening because I don't think the folks at DC would do something that stupid.

I agree that it takes a lot of dedication and time to be a superhero. But Renee has not only had training to be a cop, she has experience. She's been patroling the streets and solving crimes for YEARS as a member of the GCPD. And considering her beat is in Gotham City, she's had more than her share of confronting super villains and catastrophe, especially when you consider she was around all through No Man's Land. I'm not saying it's a great idea on DC's part making her Batwoman, but it certainly is plausible, if not likely.

[Anubis]

Well, we'll see.

[Experiment626]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?

apparently, it was written during the argentinian version of april fool's day. Although it does seem like a really cool idea

[The_Mystery]

When it's all said and done and the mini-series is over I guarantee(!!!) that Dick Grayson aka Nightwing will be the main hero. Place you bets people...

[regwec]

No he won't, because it would be absurd for the DCU to have a "main hero", no matter who.

[The_Mystery]

I don't know if it would be absurd. In Zero Hour, Green Arrow was the main hero in the end by shooting Hal with an arrow and ending his campaign to be the anti-monitor of the 90's. Golden Age Supes was the "hero" in COIE by defeating the anti-monitor. There is always that one hero who turns the tide or outright defeats the bad guy. That guy will be Nightwing

[regwec]

Oh, you mean in the Infinate Crisis storyline alone, as opposed to the DCU in general. In that respect, you may be right.

[The_Mystery]

They have been building the status of Nightwing in the comics and in discussions for so long, for him to not be incredibly crucial in the end would be anti-climatic.

[raybia]

I agree that it takes a lot of dedication and time to be a superhero. But Renee has not only had training to be a cop, she has experience. She's been patroling the streets and solving crimes for YEARS as a member of the GCPD. And considering her beat is in Gotham City, she's had more than her share of confronting super villains and catastrophe, especially when you consider she was around all through No Man's Land. I'm not saying it's a great idea on DC's part making her Batwoman, but it certainly is plausible, if not likely.

Well with that rational, most of the GPD can become superheroes.:confused:

[The_Mystery]

Sadly, I think either Ralph or Renee is takin' the big dirt nap at the end of 52

[stillanerd]

Here's another possible candidate for Batwoman:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

But it would be the rumour, yet to even be reported by LITG, that the new Batwoman would star Kathy Kane with a newly revealed sexual preference (after Montoya was initially suggested) and would beat Midnighter to the press, that got tounges wagging.

Which could tie-in with what Wizard reported about 52:

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=55779&st=280

12. Girls Gone Wild--Down-on-her-luck Montoya will see her bed become a revolving door of lovers--one of whom will make her mark on the DCU before all is said and done.

44. Not that there's anything wrong with that--A new gay character makes her first appearance in 52 before moving on to their own ongoing series.

Basically, I assumed that Renee would have a fling with Molly, who could be the new Catwoman. But if DC is bringing in a Kathy Kane to be Batwoman, making her gay, and introducing her as one of Renee's lovers, then I'll consider that possibility as well. However, I think, for the sake of economy in writing and for wanting to promote her character, that I wouldn't be surprised if Renee still becomes the new Batwoman .

[Motown Marvel]

Okay, I found this just yesterday and all I can say is that it BETTER be just this person's wacked out theory and NOT insider information:

http://www.comicboards.com/batman/view.php?trd=051228035348

For those who need a translation:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! :ghost::mad::(:down Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock:rolleyes: Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City. :down
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2:confused:. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
--The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

Outraged? Excited? Think I'm the most gulliable person alive? Comments?

if someone is gonna conjure so much BS, then they really should get to know comics better....the lazarus pit doesnt restore life to dead people, it cant, it cannot bring back life to those who are dead. it can only rejuvinate the dying. so it'd be impossible that bruce could be dead for a year, become the spectre, then be brought back to life via lazarus pit.