Joe Quesada thinks DC's comics are corporately Driven...

[The Batman]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?

[Doc Destruction]

Well, I see what he THINKS he's talking about. At Marvel, the monkeys run the zoo. Complete creative license to do whatever the hell they want. At DC, they USE their editors.

I prefer the latter.

[taskmaster]

Doc you're thinking about bendis aren't you.

[Doc Destruction]

No, Joey Q has stated numerous times that his writers have total creative license. Hence, no friggin continuity over there.

[taskmaster]

Not true with all their titles. Some of them have very good continuity. It's just some writers abuse their total creative license.

[Motown Marvel]

joe q. thinks he knows how to run a company...he doesnt....he needs to go back to the drawing board in more ways than one.

[The Batman]

Quesada is so full of crap, its not even funny. He's basically insulting DC for actually having a sense of continuity in their goddamn books. I may tire of seeing OMACs in every goddamn title, but DC's trying to tell a story. The Writers are trying to tell a story...

[Spike_x1]

Well, I see what he THINKS he's talking about. At Marvel, the monkeys run the zoo. Complete creative license to do whatever the hell they want. At DC, they USE their editors.

I prefer the latter.Monkeys running the zoo is a very accurate comparison IMO. :up:

[Motown Marvel]

even if DC comics were corporately driven....they're still handing marvel their ass every week.

[Tropico]

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Who here remembers when Marvel made Annual crossovers during the summer and linked different comics into "families". Who was the biggest offender of the multiple variant covers thing? Who has about 3 or 4 different imprints for their comics? Who is licensing and merchandising the heck out of their movies, animated properties and the comics themselves? PLEASE!! C'mon, Quesada!:rolleyes:

Anyone who tells me it doesn't take creativity to intertwine all the ongoing events is touched in the head. DC has a section on their page called Crisis Counseling where you can keep track of the important facts WITHOUT HAVING TO BUY THE ALL THE FRIGGIN' COMICS. OMG!! Those corparate baztrdz, LOLZZZZ!!!!111 I don't see DC suing City of Heroes, have you?:rolleyes:

[The Batman]

And noticed how his books are all designed to tie into their movie versions, or are pitches for movies(Black Panther comes to mind)

[jaydawg]

The man does know how to run a company. Everyone may say DC is totally quality, but somehow Marvel always manages to beat DC in the sales every month by at least 4%. So if DC is soooo much better than Marvel, I wonder how they do that.

[Doc Destruction]

Oh boy did you just pick at a scab for me....when Marvel sued COH I almost went into a hulk style rage.

[Doc Destruction]

The man does know how to run a company. Everyone may say DC is totally quality, but somehow Marvel always manages to beat DC in the sales every month by at least 4%. So if DC is soooo much better than Marvel, I wonder how they do that.

Have you been paying attention? DC just beat Marvel not too long ago.

[Doc Destruction]

May of THIS year:

DC led the Dollar Share category with 35.29% to Marvel’s 34.79% and the Unit Share category with 41.03% to Marvel’s 39.80%.

[Dr.Fear]

The man does know how to run a company. Everyone may say DC is totally quality, but somehow Marvel always manages to beat DC in the sales every month by at least 4%. So if DC is soooo much better than Marvel, I wonder how they do that.


no he doesnt know how to run jack!!!! ( and its not him running the company, he only control the creative side, the suits run the company)


secondly, were all marvel junkies for the sake of it, if it wasnt for marvel's spiderman,hulk,daredevil,fantasic four, and avengers) you really think marvel would be ahead of the game by now? nope, didnt think so!!

[CLARKY]

And noticed how his books are all designed to tie into their movie versions, or are pitches for movies(Black Panther comes to mind)


^I concur.Quesada is always surfing on the fashion.People think black, marvel thinks Black, People think white, then marvel thinks white.Marvel can't do that forever.
Actually I think it's the contrary : Marvel does drive the company corporately and DC creatively (and corporately as well of course).
Besides I think we're living a more Marvel era.Because of the Ultimate universe (only "good" idea of quesada, IMO) and because of the movies.
I want to add that in Wizard magazine and a lot others, the numbers are the numbers according to Diamond only!
That changes few things.

[jaydawg]

One month doesnt mean anything. And DC beat Marvel by 1%. LAST month was 42% and DC had 38%.

[Doc Destruction]

You were still wrong there, sparky. ;)

[Dr.Fear]

i dont think quesada has really done anything that much with the ultimate line toimpress me WOW four ultimate titles, big freakin whoop. out of all of them the ultimates is the only real comic i like UFF is getting better. but bendis really needs to chnage the teeny booper dialogue in USM. UXM just sucks IMO.

[Sabretooth]

The man does know how to run a company. Everyone may say DC is totally quality, but somehow Marvel always manages to beat DC in the sales every month by at least 4%. So if DC is soooo much better than Marvel, I wonder how they do that.
I heard of this thing called ''comic book puberty.'' I myself have gone through it.Basically,newer readers kinda flock to the Marvel side of comics,probably because of their movies.Then,as the years go on,they slowly go to DC.And,considering all the movies coming out,now there's tons of new readers.They probably start with Marvel because of their ultimate stuff,which is probably why USM is the second top selling book by Marvel right now.

So,just wait.Once people get enough of Marvel,it'll all turn in DC's favor :)

[Supergirl]

I never had a Marvel phase :o

[Doc Destruction]

Holy crap...you may be onto something there.

[Sabretooth]

I never had a Marvel phase :o
Good for you.:o

[jaydawg]

I just believe in giving credit where its due. Quesada maybe a complete jackass, no one is disputing that, but the man did turn Marvel around. Everyone hating Ultimates and Bendis now (because its "cool") was kissing his ass four years ago. Everyone was saying "Ultimates rock!" and this is such a breath of fresh air, a return to good stories. Cause before him, we had all kinds of crap, like Heroes Reborn. Then he came along and started the MK series. He brought over big name writers. And before everyone starts saying DC is sooo quality, I recall it was DC signing exclusives to every writer they could think of.

[The Watchman]

I never had a Marvel phase :o
Scandalous

[CConn]

The man does know how to run a company. Everyone may say DC is totally quality, but somehow Marvel always manages to beat DC in the sales every month by at least 4%. So if DC is soooo much better than Marvel, I wonder how they do that.If there's one thing everyone should know by now, it's that sales don't equal quality. Not in movies, not in music, not in comic books.I never had a Marvel phase :oMe neither. :o:up:

[The Watchman]

If there's one thing everyone should know by now, it's that sales don't equal quality. Not in movies, not in music, not in comic books.
Glad you said it, because I was thinking it, then forgot... :(

[Supergirl]

I just believe in giving credit where its due. Quesada maybe a complete jackass, no one is disputing that, but the man did turn Marvel around. Everyone hating Ultimates and Bendis now (because its "cool") was kissing his ass four years ago. Everyone was saying "Ultimates rock!" and this is such a breath of fresh air, a return to good stories. Cause before him, we had all kinds of crap, like Heroes Reborn. Then he came along and started the MK series. He brought over big name writers. And before everyone starts saying DC is sooo quality, I recall it was DC signing exclusives to every writer they could think of.
How does the signing of good writers detract from quality? :confused:

Scandalous

You know you love me :o

If there's one thing everyone should know by now, it's that sales don't equal quality. Not in movies, not in music, not in comic books.Yeah, because then Britney Spears would be one of the greatest singer/songwriters of all time whereas Dream Theater (who are great musicians, but widely unknown) would be regarded as utter ****.

Me neither. :o:up:
:up:

[The Watchman]

Marvel has some good titles....:confused:

[Supergirl]

I read 3 :confused: and one is on the verge of being dropped. :down

[Doc Destruction]

You know some of us hate Bendis for VERY good reasons, not because it's cool.

[The Watchman]

Astonishing
Captain America
DD
Runaways
Supreme Power
Anything Millar...

[The Batman]

Not to mention most of the people who buy marvel comics are marvel zombies who'll buy ANYTHING. i stopped caring about sales the minute i saw that X-23 was selling in the top 20 range.

[Supergirl]

I for one hate him because IMO he's an overrated hack. I've hated most everything I've read by him.

[SuGarRush]

Yeah, Cable Deadpool and Ultimate Iron Man, the rest are drivel though.

I dunno who just posted about a Comic Puberty, but that is so me. When I was younger, I never really liked DC, I mean I knew the characters, but the stories were more complex, dealt with bigger issues, and the continuity created a whole 'nother universe. Marvel was easy for any 9 year old moron to jump into without any problem. As I've grown older though, the only marvel comics I continue to buy are backissues of Marvel's canceled DeadPool run and C/DP.
Marvel just seems to be a bunch of sellouts as far as I can tell. ON the other hand, at least they know better than to kill off their main characters, or try that "pass on the mantle" bull doody! ( yes I said Doody, that is how mad I am at the idea of losing the real Batman)

[Sabretooth]

Astonishing
Captain America
DD
Runaways
Supreme Power
Anything Millar...
Amazing Spider-Man
Fantastic Four
She Hulk

:o :up:

[The Watchman]

I for one hate him because IMO he's an overrated hack. I've hated most everything I've read by him.
If you're talking about Millar, I can't have sex with you anymore...:(

[Supergirl]

Astonishing
Captain America
DD
Runaways
Supreme Power
Anything Millar...
I read AXM and Ultimates, Supreme Power I had on my list but dropped because it comes out once every six months... I'll still pick it up when it does. I have UFF on only because I love Land's art. I've been meaning to try Cap. DD just never has hit me. I keep hearing great stuff about Runaways, I may try it.

[The Batman]

I dont hate Bendis, but his New Avengers is filler, Ultimate Spider-Man became garbage when he killed Gwen for no good reason(Though i hear the annual was good), and i dont read powers so i dont know about that. His Daredevil's ok though.

[Supergirl]

If you're talking about Millar, I can't have sex with you anymore...:(
I was talking about the person everyone else was talking about hating :o

[The Watchman]

Amazing Spider-Man
Fantastic Four
She Hulk

:o :up:
Amazing sucks balls right now, FF is good, and Dan Slott does kinda rule, but I don't buy his titles because the characters don't interest me, The Defenders mini is cool as **** though :up:

[The Watchman]

I was talking about the person everyone else was talking about hating :o
Oh thank God, I was bluffing anyway :up:

[Sabretooth]

Not to mention most of the people who buy marvel comics are marvel zombies who'll buy ANYTHING. i stopped caring about sales the minute i saw that X-23 was selling in the top 20 range.
Yeah,I was gonna say that earlier,but didn't wanna get flamed. I mean,how New Avengers is like the top selling book right now is beyond me.It's an ok book,but damn.:o

[ShadowBoxing]

Just so we are all clear from a diehard Marvelites perspective...Joey Q can kiss my butt, and I hope he dies a horrible and painful death

[Sabretooth]

Amazing sucks balls right now, FF is good, and Dan Slott does kinda rule, but I don't buy his titles because the characters don't interest me, The Defenders mini is cool as **** though :up:
Let me guess,Sins Past left a bad taste in your mouth? The current arc of ASM ****ing rules.JMS writes the NEw Avengers like 1,000,000 times better than Bendis :o

Slott doesn't write Defenders.DeMattis does,or is he the artist?:confused: :o

[The Watchman]

I dont hate Bendis, but his New Avengers is filler, Ultimate Spider-Man became garbage when he killed Gwen for no good reason(Though i hear the annual was good), and i dont read powers so i dont know about that. His Daredevil's ok though.
Bendis is hit or miss, his DD is amazing, one of the best books on the market, Ultimate Spider-man started out great, but it's been getting worse, the annual however has given me hope, Powers is good, and I never got into his Avengers, but I simply don't understand how these people can HATE Bendis, it's silly.

[jaydawg]

I'm not saying that some people have genuin reasons why they dont like Bendis. And I got nothing against that. But most people who say Bendis sucks dont even read what he writes. And Marvel has an assload of good titles. Its just that its not getting press. Gravity, Spider-girl, Marvel Team-Up, Daredevil, Runaways, Pulse, Ultimates, Powers, Cap, ASM. Only three of those are getting "hyped." Thats not even counting the minis....although I have no idea how X-23 is in the top 20.

[Sabretooth]

Just so we are all clear from a diehard Marvelites perspective...Joey Q can kiss my butt, and I hope he dies a horrible and painful death
That's sorta harsh.I mean,I personally dislike Joe Q,but the EIC before him was ALOT worse (can't remember his name off the top of my head :o )

[The Watchman]

Let me guess,Sins Past left a bad taste in your mouth? The current arc of ASM ****ing rules.JMS writes the NEw Avengers like 1,000,000 times better than Bendis :o

Slott doesn't write Defenders.DeMattis does,or is he the artist?:confused: :o
No, actually the Sins Past arc didn't bother me, personally I thought it was crap for other reasons besides the one that had most fans in an uproar, I couldn't have cared less about that, it was actually the next arc that put me off it, with the cliche nerd guy, boring drivel.

[Lackey]

The man does know how to run a company. Everyone may say DC is totally quality, but somehow Marvel always manages to beat DC in the sales every month by at least 4%. So if DC is soooo much better than Marvel, I wonder how they do that.


Marvel was beating DC in sales before Quesada showed up... it's not because of him, but in spite of him. You could put a monkey in charge and Marvel would still beat DC.
It has to do with the demographic that buys comics (roughly, males 15 -30), and Marvel's established characters. Quality has nothing to do with it as evident by all the X-Men titles.

[ShadowBoxing]

That's sorta harsh.I mean,I personally dislike Joe Q,but the EIC before him was ALOT worse (can't remember his name off the top of my head :o )
okay to be fair Tom Defalco drove Marvel to bankruptcy and Jim Shooter started New Universe...but I think Joey Q has brought quality down and sales way up and for that I hate him even more because he is making substantard writing and comics acceptable in the marketplace....he even criticized "Born Again", he is so arrogant

[The Batman]

Yeah, it is. Overall, he cant really write superheroes well. His superhero books always have some sort of flaw.

Have guys checked out the interview with Quesada yet? It's at newsarama. I'll post a link up so you can see the response in their forums....Gail Simone comes in and proves him wrong.

[Supergirl]

That's sorta harsh.I mean,I personally dislike Joe Q,but the EIC before him was ALOT worse (can't remember his name off the top of my head :o )
Wasn't it Jim Shooter?

[Sabretooth]

I'm not saying that some people have genuin reasons why they dont like Bendis. And I got nothing against that. But most people who say Bendis sucks dont even read what he writes. And Marvel has an assload of good titles. Its just that its not getting press. Gravity, Spider-girl, Marvel Team-Up, Daredevil, Runaways, Pulse, Ultimates, Powers, Cap, ASM. Only three of those are getting "hyped." Thats not even counting the minis....although I have no idea how X-23 is in the top 20.
Marvel's thing is that they promote every title's first issue,then after that nothing.Though you'll see about 20 House of M ads in ever Marvel comic :o

[jaydawg]

Quesada maybe an ass, but he has a right to criticize "Born Again." Hell, I do it to all of Miller's stuff.

[The Batman]

Wasn't it Jim Shooter?

Bob Harris

[The Batman]

I don't know how Marvel is right now, and I'm not going to speak about what it was like when I did work for them, as that information is extremely outdated.

But as much as I like Joe and consider him a friend...

...the picture he's painting of DC does not exist, not for me, anyway. Even as a writer of one of the minis working as a prelude to Crisis, DC not only let, but encouraged me to come up with my own story and tell it my way. The Six, and the plot for Villains United, were my ideas from the word go. Like any good editor/creator relationship, Steve Wacker helped hash things out, but I have a ton more freedom on this book than I had on Agent X, for example.

I look at the DC books my friends write, and I find them FULL of personal vision...Legion, Manhunter, JSA, Plastic Man, etc. And I think, with all respect to Marvel, there's a lot more room for diversity of approach and content, and a lot less concentration on every book needing to have licensing potential.

The One Year Later thing is, at least for the creators at DC that I speak to, a compelling challenge...a chance to really shake things up. At the time it was announced, I remember some grousing, but now, I hardly know a DC writer who isn't looking forward to it. One of the things I like best about Dan DiDio is that he's a great listener, and tremendously excited about DC's future. It's infectious, like cooties. I'm no one's apologist. These are just my own observations as truthfully as I can give them.

I'm not interested in company bashing...I just don't see the point. But the DC being described here doesn't match the reality for the vast majority of DC writers. I only say majority because I don't want to speak for everyone...but if you've talked to a DC writer lately, I suspect you already know how jazzed we are about what's coming up. And since it's highly unlikely that either Dan or Paul would spend an interview on why Marvel isn't creator friendly, I think a slight correction is in order, from someone who actually works at DC.


Joe's a great guy, Marvel's putting out a lot of great books (love you, Dan Slott!), but there's definitely an excitement to DC that I don't think has been there for years, and we've really just started. It's gonna be a fun time for readers!

Best wishes,

Gail



DC Writer Gail Simone's response...

[Supergirl]

Bob Harris
But Shooter was Marvel's EIC at one point wasn't he? Which just goes to show that if you get the opportunity to write the Legion, take it. :o Both Shooter and Paul Levitz have wrote the LOSH :)

[The Batman]

Shooter was EIC from about 1976 to the late eighties.

He wrote legion stories at 15 years old. That's amazing.

Levitz was the one who wrote the great darkness saga write? I think he used to edit the Batman titles as well.

You may be right with your legion theory. Shooter's considered the best marvel EIC ever, and levitz is a pretty good president...

[Sabretooth]

DC Writer Gail Simone's response...
Gail Simowned!

[Supergirl]

Shooter was EIC from about 1976 to the late eighties.

He wrote legion stories at 15 years old. That's amazing.

Levitz was the one who wrote the great darkness saga write? I think he used to edit the Batman titles as well.

You may be right with your legion theory. Shooter's considered the best marvel EIC ever, and levitz is a pretty good president...
Wonder where Mark Waid's gonna go? :o

[The Batman]

He was an editor when he first started out. He has infinite knowledge of DC and its characters, and he along with his exclusive to DC, hes a consultant. If he wants to, he may end up EIC or president at some point

[Unthinkable]

Gail Simowned!

Agreed. Especially with the lack of diversity in the titles. I mean, that seems to be picking up somewhat, with the monster titles that are supposed to come out. So there is hope yet.

[Rasmon Redux]

Joe Q also thinks that "Sins Past" was a great story....

*vomits*

[jaydawg]

It wasnt a bad story...had it been elseworlds. No doubt its going to get retconned at some point, but for how horribly out character it was, it was a good story.

[Tropico]

I feel so validated that I share many of the same views on why Marvel is being hypocritical in calling DC corporate. And one comment form the quote a few posts above made me realize something...if Marvel is doing so great and they're so "awesome", why does the EIC have to bash the competition? I guess that's just the "Marvel way" and it trickles down all the way to how the comics are written. That's another thing...if Marvel is SOOOO creative, why do they have the "Marvel Way"? "Explain that to me like I'm a 3 year old." :D

In regards to the exclusivity contracts...I've read more than one interview where being signed exclusively is something creators consider a badge of honor and makes them feel wanted. They've gone on to say that it makes them feel more at ease and do better work. See, Corporate backing isn't always as detrimental as people might want to think.

[drastic_quench]

I heard of this thing called ''comic book puberty.'' I myself have gone through it.Basically,newer readers kinda flock to the Marvel side of comics,probably because of their movies.Then,as the years go on,they slowly go to DC.And,considering all the movies coming out,now there's tons of new readers.They probably start with Marvel because of their ultimate stuff,which is probably why USM is the second top selling book by Marvel right now.

So,just wait.Once people get enough of Marvel,it'll all turn in DC's favor :)

Comic book puberty. That makes complete sense. I started with Marvel in the late 80s and early 90s. Then I got into Batman comics just as the Batman movies turned to crap. That's a hard place to be. Then of course from Batman you go to Superman and from Supes to JLA and suddenly you're no Marvel boy, you're a DC man. Or something.

[Unthinkable]

Comic book puberty. That makes complete sense. I started with Marvel in the late 80s and early 90s. Then I got into Batman comics just as the Batman movies turned to crap. That's a hard place to be. Then of course from Batman you go to Superman and from Supes to JLA and suddenly you're no Marvel boy, you're a DC man. Or something.

Agreed. I started out as a X-men fanboy, ventured into the Fanastic Four and Avengers, then signed onto the hype. I think this site is actually what made me start reading outside Marvel, not just DC. I listened to posters like DBM, Corp, Elijya got me to pick up Transmet, and I was hooked on Vertigo and DC.

[newmexneon]

I never had a Marvel phase :o

Me niether, I don't think I have ever bought a marvel book, ever.

[roach]

Marvel Marketing dictated that Morrison put the X-Men back in costumes.

Marvel Marketing dictated that Magneto be brought back even after he was decapitated

Marvel Marketing dictated that every story arc be 3-6 issues in order to sell TPBs

...pot calling the kettle black indeed

[The Ether]

I heard of this thing called ''comic book puberty.'' I myself have gone through it.Basically,newer readers kinda flock to the Marvel side of comics,probably because of their movies.Then,as the years go on,they slowly go to DC.And,considering all the movies coming out,now there's tons of new readers.They probably start with Marvel because of their ultimate stuff,which is probably why USM is the second top selling book by Marvel right now.

So,just wait.Once people get enough of Marvel,it'll all turn in DC's favor

back then when I was around 9 to 10 years old, I was a huge fan, mostly because they had superstar artists like jim lee, joe maduira(correct me if the spelling is wrong), and etc. but I only liked marvel because of the artwork, i didn't give a damn about DC except for batman.

The thing is, I liked comic books when I was a child, but never owned a comic book because I never had the money. So I finally started buying comics just a year ago and bought a couple of comics from Marvel old and new. there were some stories I liked (astonishing x-men) but the old comics i bought weren't that impressive except for some issues (the batman year ones and animal #5).

So I guess for comic book puberty to me was flashy, dynamic artwork that marvel had back then. while DC was aiming for a more adult audience back then, Marvel was aiming for the kids.

[twylight]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?



I never had a Marvel phase :o

First off, Marvel caters to a different demographic. Or at least in my mind they do.

Most of the people older than twentysomthing at my comic book store buy DC Comic's, whereas many of the under 30 crowd buy Marvel.

I know because I never had a 'Marvel phase' :o I still buy Marvel. But not as many as DC.
Why? Because while Marvel may be 'creative' they never have anything new. As someone mentioned Even Marvel's 'big' event of the year isn't really an 'event' it's a dream world, one that is NOT going to rock the boat in the Marvel titles.
Except to make specialty titles with a hundred different varient covers.

I don't see where he can call DC corporately driven, when Marvel is the one who's spread it's copywrites over every aspect of humanity. I can't even go to the grocery store without seeing anything Marvel related.

[Addendum]

I'm looking at my tradeback collection. A good majority are DC, specifically Vertigo. I admired DC for taking a chance in creating a line of comics for mature readers, even though when Veritgo first came out when I was in high school, my friends and I thought it was just another gimmick by DC like Milestone Comics. Boy, was I wrong.

DC has stood behind Vertigo not as a censoring hand, but through the creators free reign over their creations, which includes no connection or crossovers to the superheroes and also with good advertising.

When Marvel created the MAX line, I was interested in it. All I saw from MAX was hero comics with tits, swearing, and bloody action sequences. The only title from MAX I buy is Supreme Power. At least for me, it's tone is like Watchmen, though without the subtlety and having to read it 3 times to catch everything. If Supreme Power had those, it'd be amazing. From what I've seen Marvel never advertised the MAX line at all. I've not seen a single advert for MAX at all. If the line folds, I won't miss it. If Vertigo folds, I'd be ticked.

[Assassin]

Qupo Joe can kiss my ass

[SuperFerret]

Marvel's characters are good. Their current creative direction in my opinion isn't. Once, originality ruled the land of Marvel and all was well. Characters actually did things that mattered. Big events happened and (gasp and horror!) were referenced to in other, mostly unrelated books. Then, something happened. And originality became almost extinct. And like the extinction of the dinosaurs before them, no one can be 100% correct about what caused it.

So, in conclusion, Joe Quesada killed the dinosaurs.

[Red Mask]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?

Nope. Both Marvel and DC's comics are made to sell. You can't succeed in this business without making a profit. And it is a business.

[Spike_x1]

Yes, they are both truly corporately driven. But in everyday lingo (minus all the technical details), Joe said that Marvel isn't run by the need for money, while DC is, when it's by far the other way around IMO.

[Dr.Fear]

I just believe in giving credit where its due. Quesada maybe a complete jackass, no one is disputing that, but the man did turn Marvel around. Everyone hating Ultimates and Bendis now (because its "cool") was kissing his ass four years ago. Everyone was saying "Ultimates rock!" and this is such a breath of fresh air, a return to good stories. Cause before him, we had all kinds of crap, like Heroes Reborn. Then he came along and started the MK series. He brought over big name writers. And before everyone starts saying DC is sooo quality, I recall it was DC signing exclusives to every writer they could think of.

i really dont see how he turned it around, this isnt the golden age of marvel:o

the mk line is just a imprint, nothing spectacular about that line whatsover!!


reginald hudlin sucks, and orson scott card is overrated and ultimate iron man aint anything special. big names dont mean shnit, its the quality of work of the big names that means something!!

[Red Mask]

Yes, they are both truly corporately driven. But in everyday lingo (minus all the technical details), Joe said that Marvel isn't run by the need for money, while DC is, when it's by far the other way around IMO.

If DC Direct keeps manufacturing all these toys they will become desperate for money. Overproduction can lead to waste.

[Dr.Fear]

im experiencin the whole comic puberty as well im loving dc right now!!

[Batman15]

the only good Marvel book is Captain America :o

and Punisher, but thats cause its MAX, and well... yeah. :up:

[Red Mask]

The only Marvel comic I'm collecting right now is Black Panther. From DC I'm only collecting Birds of Prey.

[Dwarf lord]

I like both. Here's my pull list for November:
Superman
JSA
New Excalibur
Action Comics
Infinite Crisis
JLA
Books of Doom
All Star Superman #1
Green Lantern: Recharge
Generation M
X-Men: Deadly Genesis
Adventures of Superman
JSA: Classified
Legion of Superheroes
X-Factor
Green Lantern
New Avengers
The Thing
She-Hulk (Trades)
Sentry (Trades)

I like the way DC is run much better, but there are so many good things coming out of both.

[chamber-music]

I like both Marvel and DC titles. I don't remember reading anything saying you have to like one or the other, it comes down to personal preference.

If there is a good Marvel book I will buy it. If there is a good DC book I will buy it.
Both companies put out crap and both companies talk crap. Expect no less they are RIVALS after all so there is always gonna be the power struggle going on. Try not to get sucked into it as this what either companies want, for you to turn your back on the other companies products.

[chamber-music]

I am loving Runaways write now but also I think The Flash is probably the best its been years. I collected them in the mid nineties but droped it as it weren't really pulling me in but I got back into it recently and I think its amazing. I am loving the Rogues.

As for the Runaways Vaughn has again pulled another rabbit out the bag its one of the funnist books out.

I've never been real intrested in the DC or Marvels main character like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spiderman, Captain America, Hulk or the fantastic four. Those characters always seem way over hyped by BOTH companies.

[SpideyInATree]

I think what Quesada was talking about when he was saying corporately driven is probably the fact that DC comics is a part of Time Warner, aren't they? And Marvel Comics isn't owned by any outside company, just themselves...or am I wrong on that about Marvel?

But that's the only reasoning I see Quesada making that comment is because of the Time Warner thing. If not that then Quesada is just being a douche bag and trying to get more of a heated rivalry going between the companies, which is good, but there are differences between sounding malicious and an *******...and just ribbing each other.

[Supergirl]

I think what Quesada was talking about when he was saying corporately driven is probably the fact that DC comics is a part of Time Warner, aren't they? And Marvel Comics isn't owned by any outside company, just themselves...or am I wrong on that about Marvel?

But that's the only reasoning I see Quesada making that comment is because of the Time Warner thing. If not that then Quesada is just being a douche bag and trying to get more of a heated rivalry going between the companies, which is good, but there are differences between sounding malicious and an *******...and just ribbing each other.
Marvel's owned by Toy-Biz Toys.

[SpideyInATree]

Marvel's owned by Toy-Biz Toys.

Yeah, that's right. I knew Marvel was owned by some company just couldn't remember. But...yeah...Quesada is just sounding like a real douche bag....AGAIN!!! :eek:

[BlueSky]

How does the signing of good writers detract from quality? :confused:



Yeah, because then Britney Spears would be one of the greatest singer/songwriters of all time whereas Dream Theater (who are great musicians, but widely unknown) would be regarded as utter ****.


:up:

Time for a thread jack!

But...Dream Theater is utter ****! Technically impressive but they could not write a good song to save their lives. I'll take four chords and a melody that I can actually remember over that kinda wank any day of the week.

I'm a bigtime music geek. My SN comes from the Allmans tune

Now back on topic: I stopped reading comics about 10 years ago (I'm 21 now.) I ALWAYS read DC. It seems like they always had the cooler heroes (GL, Flash, Batman, Superman) but I did appreciate the X-Men and Spider-man. Spider-man 2 brought me back to comics but once again I was lead back to DC. I started with a bunch of trades and now I read quite a few monthlies again and am starting to pick up a lot of Vertigo titles (Fables, Y:The Last Man and the Preacher and Sandman trades.) DC, to me, just puts out a surperior product.

[Supergirl]

Time for a thread jack!

But...Dream Theater is utter ****! Technically impressive but they could not write a good song to save their lives. I'll take four chords and a melody that I can actually remember over that kinda wank any day of the week.

I'm a bigtime music geek. My SN comes from the Allmans tune

Now back on topic: I stopped reading comics about 10 years ago (I'm 21 now.) I ALWAYS read DC. It seems like they always had the cooler heroes (GL, Flash, Batman, Superman) but I did appreciate the X-Men and Spider-man. Spider-man 2 brought me back to comics but once again I was lead back to DC. I started with a bunch of trades and now I read quite a few monthlies again and am starting to pick up a lot of Vertigo titles (Fables, Y:The Last Man and the Preacher and Sandman trades.) DC, to me, just puts out a surperior product.
I completely disagree with you about DT... and I doubt you can find a bigger music geek than myself. I've played guitar for over five years, and most people who've heard me play have said I'm good. I have over 9,000 songs on my hard drive, most from bought albums. My actual, unburned CD collection is over 400. Dream Theater falls behind only two other bands on my list of favorites, those being Lynyrd Skynyrd and Van Halen. But each person is entitled to their own opinion, and this isn't the place to discuss music. :o

[Bat-Mantis]

I took his comments to mean that Marvel does what it does because it wants to tell great stories, while DC does what it does to make money. Hmm.
The Ultimate line was a shameless money grab (and it’s nice to see him admit this), but he does say it became about the ‘good story’ and not the money after about 6 issues of Ultimate Spidey. Yeah, my ass it did. The whole line is about grabbing the cash. If you guys haven’t noticed, the majority of the Spidey and X-Men arcs have been Ultimate takes on some of the biggest, most popular 616 stories ever told. Why? “Hey gang, look! It’s your favorite story… re-imagined for the Ultimate line! Yes, rush out and pick it up today!” What that really means is, “Hey, we know you love this because it’s one of the best selling books we ever did. So instead of actually having the creativity to write another story that’ll grip you like that one, we’ll just re-hash it but warp a few little details, give the villains business suits and drop in a ‘fo-shizzle’ or two and make money off of it AGAIN!”
I admit the All-Star line feels like a shameless cash grab to me as well, but we don’t know if All-Star Superman will re-tell any stories like Batman currently is.
Next, DC’s huge event so far this year, the Prelude to Infinite Crisis, was about the BLUE BEETLE. Blue Beetle. Another was about the rape and murder of Sue Dibney, and the questionable actions of a B-to-C-list JLA. This spawned 4 mini-series which star the huge, attention grabbing characters like… the Blue Devil, Ragman, Hawkman, the Omega Men, Adam Strange, Kilowog, Detective Chimp, Sasha Bordeux, Max Lord, Catman, Dr. Psycho, Cheshire and last but not least, Ragdoll.
Can’t you just feel it? Can’t you imagine the meetings in the dark, twisted Tower of DC, casting its deep black shadow over the small, rundown village below it… “Muhuhuwahahahaha! *lightning strikes* Yes, my pretties… we will entice the young, impressionable readers of America to buy our book by shamelessly plastering the names and faces of their favorite characters on the covers of all of these Countdown books… then they will be forced to buy out of their juvenile sense of loyalty! Mwwwahahahahahahaaa! *lightning strikes*”
“But sir! This weeks Villains United has Parademon and Ragdoll on the cover!”
“Yes, you fool! Of course! Parademon tested highly among the filthy minorities…”
“Don’t you think someone like Batman or Superman would do--”
“No! They’re too old! Outmoded! PARADEMON is the wave of the future! *said in a mock-child voice* ‘Ohh, an issue featuring Parademon! Wow, I can’t wait to read more about Parademon! He’ so hip and cool, he’s just like me! He even talks just like me!’ Wretched whelps! Kids today can relate to being tortured by their grannies, Geoff.”
“Yes sir. Of course sir.”
Anyway, Marvel destroyed their flagship team, just to resurrect it with two of their biggest selling characters. On top of this, it’s not in their character to even belong to this team. Wolverine already belongs to one team, has a solo book and somehow still manages to show up in almost every title Marvel has… he doesn’t have time to be in the Avengers, and it doesn’t make much sense he’d want to join the Avengers. But he still does. Why? Because he’s bankable. Same with Spider-Man. The only reason he’s there is because he’s bankable. The whole Disassembled mess was nothing but the lowest form of shameless hype imaginable, going so far as to have a, “one of these clueless ***holes will DIE!” cover.
Spider-Man’s webshooters springs to mind as well. To me, that’s always been a staple of that character. I mean, who didn’t like it when he’d be swinging through the city, run out of web-fluid then have to take the bus to fight a villain? The tension of running out of web fluid was always a part of the character I really liked… it was like one of his weaknesses, something that made him more human. The villains didn’t really have to even do anything for him to be put into a tight spot; he’d just have to run out of web fluid and BAM: instant tense situation. Now they’re organic. Not only is that gross, but it removes one of the coolest gimmicks the character had. And why did they do that? Why did they remove his web shooters? Because the movie did first. They wanted him to be as close to the movie as possible so fans of the movie can pick up an issue of Spidey and not be confused. Why? Because they wanted the extra bank since the movies were such huge successes.
I’m sure the list goes on, but I just don’t see any comparison. Marvel is having a large, company-wide event with a ton of crossovers and specialty books. Dc is as well. Marvel’s is focused primarily on the bigger, more popular characters like Wolverine and the X-Men because they’re more reliable and they’ll draw in more readers. DC is focused primarily on second and third stringers like Hawkman and Green Arrow because they’re more interested in making money from good stories, not from bankable characters and gimmicky plot devices.
It all comes down to quality. Right now, DC is clearly the company focused on quality and characters, and they’re using that to make money. Marvel is focused on making money, and they’re using recognizable, hyped characters with horrible (New Avengers), derivative (most of the Ultimate line) and boring (House of M) plots to do it.
Basically, Marvel is the Jerry Springer of comic book companies. Springer killed in the ratings for a while there…

[halfmadjesus]

Funny...Quesada seemed to dig "corporate" DC a lot more back in the early 90's when they handed him his career in comics working on the likes of the Ray and Sword of Azrael. I realize he's gotta be the "rah-rah Marvel-guy" now, but any time Joe Quesada starts talking smack about DC, the first thing I think about is the fact that he wouldn't be where he is right now if some DC editor hadn't given him a shot in the first place.

[BrianWilly]

I took his comments to mean that Marvel does what it does because it wants to tell great stories, while DC does what it does to make money. Hmm.
The Ultimate line was a shameless money grab (and it’s nice to see him admit this), but he does say it became about the ‘good story’ and not the money after about 6 issues of Ultimate Spidey. Yeah, my ass it did. The whole line is about grabbing the cash. If you guys haven’t noticed, the majority of the Spidey and X-Men arcs have been Ultimate takes on some of the biggest, most popular 616 stories ever told. Why? “Hey gang, look! It’s your favorite story… re-imagined for the Ultimate line! Yes, rush out and pick it up today!” What that really means is, “Hey, we know you love this because it’s one of the best selling books we ever did. So instead of actually having the creativity to write another story that’ll grip you like that one, we’ll just re-hash it but warp a few little details, give the villains business suits and drop in a ‘fo-shizzle’ or two and make money off of it AGAIN!”
I admit the All-Star line feels like a shameless cash grab to me as well, but we don’t know if All-Star Superman will re-tell any stories like Batman currently is.
Next, DC’s huge event so far this year, the Prelude to Infinite Crisis, was about the BLUE BEETLE. Blue Beetle. Another was about the rape and murder of Sue Dibney, and the questionable actions of a B-to-C-list JLA. This spawned 4 mini-series which star the huge, attention grabbing characters like… the Blue Devil, Ragman, Hawkman, the Omega Men, Adam Strange, Kilowog, Detective Chimp, Sasha Bordeux, Max Lord, Catman, Dr. Psycho, Cheshire and last but not least, Ragdoll.
Can’t you just feel it? Can’t you imagine the meetings in the dark, twisted Tower of DC, casting its deep black shadow over the small, rundown village below it… “Muhuhuwahahahaha! *lightning strikes* Yes, my pretties… we will entice the young, impressionable readers of America to buy our book by shamelessly plastering the names and faces of their favorite characters on the covers of all of these Countdown books… then they will be forced to buy out of their juvenile sense of loyalty! Mwwwahahahahahahaaa! *lightning strikes*”
“But sir! This weeks Villains United has Parademon and Ragdoll on the cover!”
“Yes, you fool! Of course! Parademon tested highly among the filthy minorities…”
“Don’t you think someone like Batman or Superman would do--”
“No! They’re too old! Outmoded! PARADEMON is the wave of the future! *said in a mock-child voice* ‘Ohh, an issue featuring Parademon! Wow, I can’t wait to read more about Parademon! He’ so hip and cool, he’s just like me! He even talks just like me!’ Wretched whelps! Kids today can relate to being tortured by their grannies, Geoff.”
“Yes sir. Of course sir.”
Anyway, Marvel destroyed their flagship team, just to resurrect it with two of their biggest selling characters. On top of this, it’s not in their character to even belong to this team. Wolverine already belongs to one team, has a solo book and somehow still manages to show up in almost every title Marvel has… he doesn’t have time to be in the Avengers, and it doesn’t make much sense he’d want to join the Avengers. But he still does. Why? Because he’s bankable. Same with Spider-Man. The only reason he’s there is because he’s bankable. The whole Disassembled mess was nothing but the lowest form of shameless hype imaginable, going so far as to have a, “one of these clueless ***holes will DIE!” cover.
Spider-Man’s webshooters springs to mind as well. To me, that’s always been a staple of that character. I mean, who didn’t like it when he’d be swinging through the city, run out of web-fluid then have to take the bus to fight a villain? The tension of running out of web fluid was always a part of the character I really liked… it was like one of his weaknesses, something that made him more human. The villains didn’t really have to even do anything for him to be put into a tight spot; he’d just have to run out of web fluid and BAM: instant tense situation. Now they’re organic. Not only is that gross, but it removes one of the coolest gimmicks the character had. And why did they do that? Why did they remove his web shooters? Because the movie did first. They wanted him to be as close to the movie as possible so fans of the movie can pick up an issue of Spidey and not be confused. Why? Because they wanted the extra bank since the movies were such huge successes.
I’m sure the list goes on, but I just don’t see any comparison. Marvel is having a large, company-wide event with a ton of crossovers and specialty books. Dc is as well. Marvel’s is focused primarily on the bigger, more popular characters like Wolverine and the X-Men because they’re more reliable and they’ll draw in more readers. DC is focused primarily on second and third stringers like Hawkman and Green Arrow because they’re more interested in making money from good stories, not from bankable characters and gimmicky plot devices.
It all comes down to quality. Right now, DC is clearly the company focused on quality and characters, and they’re using that to make money. Marvel is focused on making money, and they’re using recognizable, hyped characters with horrible (New Avengers), derivative (most of the Ultimate line) and boring (House of M) plots to do it.
Basically, Marvel is the Jerry Springer of comic book companies. Springer killed in the ratings for a while there…I completely agree.

[BlueSky]

I completely disagree with you about DT... and I doubt you can find a bigger music geek than myself. I've played guitar for over five years, and most people who've heard me play have said I'm good. I have over 9,000 songs on my hard drive, most from bought albums. My actual, unburned CD collection is over 400. Dream Theater falls behind only two other bands on my list of favorites, those being Lynyrd Skynyrd and Van Halen. But each person is entitled to their own opinion, and this isn't the place to discuss music. :o

Glad to see another music geek out there. Skynyrd IMHO is probably one of the most underrated bands of all time (the ORIGINAL(s) with Al Collins, Gary Rossington and Ed King (or Steve Gaines) on guitar and RVZ on vocals.) They get their due on classic rock radio but not from the so-called "musical elite." They are on the same level as bands like Zeppelin and Sabbath.

Me, I've been playing guitar since I was 12 and professionally since I was 19 (21 now.) I have over 2500 albums (vinyl and CD) ranging from jazz to country to rock to blues. I'm pretty openminded about music so maybe I'll give Dream Theater another shot someday.

You're right this is not the place to talk music. If ya want to go into it more PM and maybe I'll send you a few songs and you can do the same

Peace,
Chris

[Still A ThorFan]

Now if I had created this post I would have been accused of trolling.

[Bat-Mantis]

... because you're a troll.

[The Watchman]

... because you're a troll.
Damn, you got to it before I did...just too easy :o

[The Batman]

... because you're a troll.


Dont forget he's a dumbass too...

[Assassin]

LOL :up:

[Babs Gordon]

quesada needs to shut his pie hole. he's just taking a cheapshot at dc's put-togetherness and recent film success.

he's probably paranoid.

[The Batman]

Exactly.

If being creatively driven means creating such masterpeices as "Sins Past" and "Avengers Dissembled", than i'd rather be "corporate driven"

[Still A ThorFan]

Dont forget he's a dumbass too...

God for bid the Moderator does anything about that or the other insults I just read.

[Generation Lee]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?

For God sake the man has Chris Claremont still writing X-Books after 30 odd years what does that tell you about him. I picked up the comics after their reload last May and after an arc I wanted him off the book! :supes:

[Bruce_Wayne29]

I respect and love Quesada as an artist but he speaks such crap sometimes.
He's just jeolous that they USED to beat DC and now they're getting their asses kicked everytime.
Plus DC has the biggest artists/writers in the world right now working for them:
Jeph Loeb (which is going to Marvel but will still hang on for a while at DC), Frank Miller, Michael Turner, Tim Sale, Jim Lee, McGuiness, Ian Churchill, Greg Rucka, Carlos Pacheco, Matt Wagner, Alex Ross, among others.
Who does Marvel have ? Quesada (who I think isn't even an active artist right now), Bendis, Mack, Ennis, Bradstreet, Romita Jr. ?
My money goes to DC without a doubt. I only buy old classics from Marvel, although I will buy any tbp that Loeb does for them.

[The Batman]

God for bid the Moderator does anything about that or the other insults I just read.

Oh please. Now you're an innocent victim? you're a TROLL, plain and simple. Do you want me to bring up your posts as ThorFan? You make threads designed to purposely piss DC fans off, and now you're crying when people call you on it? You're a joke, and you have no one else to blame but yourself for your ignorant posts.

[Xofenroht]

DC takes more risks than Marvel. Marvel would never let a line like Vertigo thrive the way DC did.

DC goes beyond the superhero genre of comics. Marvel seems to be using it as a clutch.

So that's settled, DC has more diversity in their storytelling whereas Marvel seems to only want to play the superhero game.

[amazingfantasy15]

Having just read the article, I can somewhat understand where Quesada is coming from, I don't think he's 100% right, but I understand what he's saying. He was basically questioning where the ideas of Infinite Crisis came from in terms of every book tying into it. Now this could be right as 90% of the DC Superhero universe is tying into Crisis and will jump 1 year ahead after Crisis #5, did this decision come from Dan Didio's office or did all the creators actually have stories to tell. Quesada also mentions this does happen at Marvel as well. Personally I think the scope of Infinite Crisis is very cool and is one of the most appealing factors of it for me, but it could also be seen as a corporate directive that every book must fit into this one story. However, Quesada did applaud DC's Vertigo line and how it is very creator driven.

[mwm1331]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?

Then hes an idiot because both companies are controlled by thier marketing departments.
Thge simple fact is both are corporation with a responsibillity to thier shareholders. Both are required to make a profit and both will dispense with a title and or character if it isn't making money no matter how much the editors, writers, or fans enjoy it.

[HighVoltage]

DC takes more risks than Marvel. Marvel would never let a line like Vertigo thrive the way DC did.


So that's settled, DC has more diversity in their storytelling whereas Marvel seems to only want to play the superhero game.

I´m Sorry dude, But Dc is Nothing without Warner´s support.

Vertigo is a Warner property Not a Dc property.

Warner is the Master.

Dc is the pupil.

and for diversity...yeah let me see:

Dc: Batman , Superman and the Jla. ( and maybe the Teen Titans ) and that´s all.

[Metropolis_Man]

I just recently got back into comics, and I am picking up only DC titles right now, with the exception of Spider-Man house of M. I do prefer DC over Marvel, but if I had the money, I'd be keeping up with Marvel comics too. I just love comics. I would like both companies to keep selling back and forth with their numbers rising, to help put even more life back into comics. Right now the Infinite Crisis has me hooked and I just like the stories they are tying in with it. I just don't see why there has to be bickering over this, Quesada works for Marvel so he will more than likely put out better words for Marvel than for DC.

[HighVoltage]

I just recently got back into comics, and I am picking up only DC titles right now, with the exception of Spider-Man house of M. I do prefer DC over Marvel, but if I had the money, I'd be keeping up with Marvel comics too. I just love comics. I would like both companies to keep selling back and forth with their numbers rising, to help put even more life back into comics. Right now the Infinite Crisis has me hooked and I just like the stories they are tying in with it. I just don't see why there has to be bickering over this, Quesada works for Marvel so he will more than likely put out better words for Marvel than for DC.

Good Post.:up::up:

[The Batman]

I´m Sorry dude, But Dc is Nothing without Warner´s support.

Vertigo is a Warner property Not a Dc property.

Warner is the Master.

Dc is the pupil.

and for diversity...yeah let me see:

Dc: Batman , Superman and the Jla. ( and maybe the Teen Titans ) and that´s all.

You're a moron, plain and simple. And i thought TrollFan was a simpering idiot.

Warner has NOTHING to do with how Dc does their business. Warners wasnt the one who created the vertigo imprint. All Warner does is fund DC and makes their characters into movies and cartoons.

Marvel's nothing without Toy Biz's support, but you dont see me saying anything. Why? Because I'm not a moron and I know everything that goes on at both DC AND Marvel. Which is why you and TrollFan come off as idiots most of the time.

And diversity? What the hell does Marvel have? All they do is superheroes. Thats it. MAX is bascially superhero comics for mature readers. Marvel Knights? Still Superhero comics. So, please, STFU and next time, actually have some idea what the hell you're talking about

[LadyVader]

I stopped listening to what Quesada has to say a long time ago.
:)
He and Avi Arad have this talent of starting s@%t for no good reason.

[Guyverjay]

You're a moron, plain and simple. And i thought TrollFan was a simpering idiot.

Warner has NOTHING to do with how Dc does their business. Warners wasnt the one who created the vertigo imprint. All Warner does is fund DC and makes their characters into movies and cartoons.

Marvel's nothing without Toy Biz's support, but you dont see me saying anything. Why? Because I'm not a moron and I know everything that goes on at both DC AND Marvel. Which is why you and TrollFan come off as idiots most of the time.

And diversity? What the hell does Marvel have? All they do is superheroes. Thats it. MAX is bascially superhero comics for mature readers. Marvel Knights? Still Superhero comics. So, please, STFU and next time, actually have some idea what the hell you're talking about

I think you need to calm your ass down there buddy. Its not THAT important

[Still A ThorFan]

You're a moron, plain and simple. And i thought TrollFan was a simpering idiot.

Warner has NOTHING to do with how Dc does their business. Warners wasnt the one who created the vertigo imprint. All Warner does is fund DC and makes their characters into movies and cartoons.

Marvel's nothing without Toy Biz's support, but you dont see me saying anything. Why? Because I'm not a moron and I know everything that goes on at both DC AND Marvel. Which is why you and TrollFan come off as idiots most of the time.

And diversity? What the hell does Marvel have? All they do is superheroes. Thats it. MAX is bascially superhero comics for mature readers. Marvel Knights? Still Superhero comics. So, please, STFU and next time, actually have some idea what the hell you're talking about


No need for you to speak to him like that just because you don't agree with his opinion. Moderator why don't you do something about this? I thought name calling and insults aren't to be tolerated?

[SpideyInATree]

I think you need to calm your ass down there buddy. Its not THAT important

I agree, The Batman. You acted like the dude insulted your mother or something. :o

Don't go picking fights and get this thread closed like some posters over in the Marvel forum went and got the Geoff Johns vs. Bendis thread closed. :down

[The Batman]

No need for you to speak to him like that just because you don't agree with his opinion. Moderator why don't you do something about this? I thought name calling and insults aren't to be tolerated?

his opinion?


He stated that Vertigo is not a DC property. That's not trying to state opinion. That's trying to state Fact. A fact that's not true. I know this because i actually read DC Comics. Do you?

And dude, you're the LAST person to try and be mature. You purposely go into forums trying to get a rise out of people. And then you complain that if you made this thread you wouldve been called a troll? Have you read ANY of your past posts? Or how about those PMS you sent me trying to insult me? Or how about that thread where you tried to call me out?

[The Batman]

I agree, The Batman. You acted like the dude insulted your mother or something. :o

Don't go picking fights and get this thread closed like some posters over in the Marvel forum went and got the Geoff Johns vs. Bendis thread closed. :down

I'm sorry about that. I just get riled when trolls come here.

Why'd the Geoff Vs Brian thread get closed?

[LadyVader]

Yeah, that's news for me too!

[SpideyInATree]

I'm sorry about that. I just get riled when trolls come here.

Why'd the Geoff Vs Brian thread get closed?

Well, Muze has an undying love for Ant-Man. And CTOAN, Lackey, and a few other posters were pretty much saying how much Ant-Man sucks. Muze started taking it personally and EXCELSIOR closed the thread.

[The Batman]

It got closed because they started talking about...eh...i dont even wanna type it...

But hopefully this thread wont get to that point.....

[The Batman]

Well, Muze has an undying love for Ant-Man. And CTOAN, Lackey, and a few other posters were pretty much saying how much Ant-Man sucks. Muze started taking it personally and EXCELSIOR closed the thread.

That joan Collins pic was kinda funny...

[The Batman]

Back on topic, does anyone think Dan Didio should refute these claims?

[KingOfDreams]

DC is much better with continuity than Marvel is but because of that, I barely understand what's going on in the DC books half the time so I'm disinclined to buy them. I can find plenty of Marvel books that I enjoy and understand.

[Cap1970]

Back on topic, does anyone think Dan Didio should refute these claims?

I don't think he needs to. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The recent success of Batman Begins (and unless a meteor hits production - Superman Returns looks to be huge) and the success of Identity Crisis, Days of Vengeance, and upcoming Infinite Crisis is more than enough that Didio should sit back and not reply to Quesada.

The debacles of Sins Past, Avengers Disassembled, and movie bombs (Elektra, Man-Thing) and a mediocre movie in F4 should have Quesada and Arad a little gunshy and working damned hard on X3, Spidey 3, and better stories.

That's what it all comes down to. Better stories. I think DC has a lock on this one right now.

[The Batman]

Both Quesada and Arad like to run their mouths.

I'll never forget when Arad said "Batman came and went", only to have Begins beat FF critically and financially.

[Cap1970]

Yeah, my personal fav of Arad's was some nonsense about Man-Thing being a tremendously creative picture.

Then it went straight to DVD and the Sci-Fi Channel.....

[Tropico]

Back on topic, does anyone think Dan Didio should refute these claims?

After reading this post...

Having just read the article, I can somewhat understand where Quesada is coming from, I don't think he's 100% right, but I understand what he's saying. He was basically questioning where the ideas of Infinite Crisis came from in terms of every book tying into it. Now this could be right as 90% of the DC Superhero universe is tying into Crisis and will jump 1 year ahead after Crisis #5, did this decision come from Dan Didio's office or did all the creators actually have stories to tell. Quesada also mentions this does happen at Marvel as well. Personally I think the scope of Infinite Crisis is very cool and is one of the most appealing factors of it for me, but it could also be seen as a corporate directive that every book must fit into this one story. However, Quesada did applaud DC's Vertigo line and how it is very creator driven.

...I'm more interested in reading the article, especially after reading "Quesada also mentions this does happen at Marvel as well." It sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. Gail Simone's comment about Marvel concentrating on each title's licensing potential also makes me question Quesada's "objectivity". Is there a link or is it something written in some magazine? If so, which and what number/month?

[SpideyInATree]

Back on topic, does anyone think Dan Didio should refute these claims?

I don't really think that Dan DiDio needs to refute anything. His company is certainly speaking for itself by slowly edging out Marvel in sales. I figure once Infinite Crisis hits the stands DC will be number 1 no contest.

Just seems to me Quesada wants to stir the pot noticing that DC has seriously closed the gap when it comes to sales.

Some advice for Joe Q....don't focus so much on talking trash to your main competitor and focus on writing some strong stories that WON'T piss people off, heh.

[Still A ThorFan]

Both Quesada and Arad like to run their mouths.

I'll never forget when Arad said "Batman came and went", only to have Begins beat FF critically and financially.


That's trolling.

[SuGarRush]

thats also the facts though. Begins rocked Fours face in every way possible.

[Supergirl]

That's trolling.
How was that trolling?

[HighVoltage]

Both Quesada and Arad like to run their mouths.

I'll never forget when Arad said "Batman came and went", only to have Begins beat FF critically and financially.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/high316/crapboxoffice.jpg

Wow that was impressive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/high316/ffsaveshollywood.jpg

[vog]

After reading this post...



...I'm more interested in reading the article, especially after reading "Quesada also mentions this does happen at Marvel as well." It sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. Gail Simone's comment about Marvel concentrating on each title's licensing potential also makes me question Quesada's "objectivity". Is there a link or is it something written in some magazine? If so, which and what number/month?

I believe the article was from week 13 or 14 of the Joe Friday's segment on Newsarama. Here's the link to week 14.

http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays14.html

[roach]

Both Quesada and Arad like to run their mouths.

I'll never forget when Arad said "Batman came and went", only to have Begins beat FF critically and financially.

he said that in response to Goyer who said Marvel's time with movies was over because of Begins.

[The Batman]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/high316/crapboxoffice.jpg

Wow that was impressive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/high316/ffsaveshollywood.jpg


Fantastic Four: 150 Million dollars

Batman Begins: 204 million dollars

FF's RT ratring: 26%


BB's RT rating: 83 %

Now, that's impressive. Anyway, get back on topic, or leave the thread. your choice.

[The Batman]

That's trolling.


Hahahahahaha. no No, My friend.....This Is trolling:

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131012

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130253

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129989

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130537

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130381

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105180

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93110

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89262

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80142

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79035


Ten examples of You Trolling on the DC boards...and there's probably even more posts like that. you just dont get it, do you? Please stop accusing me of trolling when your record more than speaks for itself.

[Tropico]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Tropico/mvc2_0830_11.jpg

[The Batman]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Tropico/mvc2_0830_11.jpg

Why thank you. so tell me, what did you think of those threads?

[The Ether]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Tropico/mvc2_0830_11.jpg
Is that done by photoshop? cause I can't believe that there would be a 99999 hit combo, even on MvC 2

BTW, nice threads about Thorfan, the batman:up:

[The Batman]

There's nothin worse than hyporcracy, folks...

[Tropico]

I believe the article was from week 13 or 14 of the Joe Friday's segment on Newsarama. Here's the link to week 14.

http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays14.html

Thank you very much. The article clears up a few things, but it still seems like Quesada is trying to put down DC while keeping a veneer of "I didn't say that". He implies that when Marvel does "corporate spawned ideas" it's just that, a suggestion and the creators then run with it. How is that different from what DC is doing? Because he assumes that the events happening now ans in One Year After are going to "tie up" comics for the next year? It makes common sense that they would be, otherwise where's the importance in the crossover? Is DC supposed to make disposable stories, is that the way to go with any publishing company? I stand by my previous posts in that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Tropico]

Is that done by photoshop? cause I can't believe that there would be a 99999 hit combo, even on MvC 2

BTW, nice threads about Thorfan, the batman:up:

What? I'm tired of making that combo ALLLL the time. It's why I got banned from my local arcade.:o Nah, I'm just joking!:D It is edited. :up:

[The Batman]

Thank you very much. The article clears up a few things, but it still seems like Quesada is trying to put down DC while keeping a veneer of "I didn't say that". He implies that when Marvel does "corporate spawned ideas" it's just that, a suggestion and the creators then run with it. How is that different from what DC is doing? Because he assumes that the events happening now ans in One Year After are going to "tie up" comics for the next year? It makes common sense that they would be, otherwise where's the importance in the crossover? Is DC supposed to make disposable stories, is that the way to go with any publishing company? I stand by my previous posts in that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.


Exactly. I like what DC's doing, trying to reignite their universe. Honestly, House of M dosent feel like it's gonna impact the whole Marvel universe like Infinite Crisis will DC, simply because the marvel books feel seperate. They dont feel tied together, like they were in the 60's.

[The Ether]

What? I'm tired of making that combo ALLLL the time. It's why I got banned from my local arcade. Nah, I'm just joking! It is edited.
Thats good to hear but it still doesn't matter, I'll still own you in the game :D :p

But, back to topic, I don't understand why Quesada is making a big deal that DC is corporately driven or not(IMO DC isn't). These two companies are going neck to neck with the same ideas

Major Events: House of M vs. Infinite Crisis
Crossovers: Batman: War Games vs. Spider-man: The Others
Teams Disbanding: Avengers: Dissassembled vs. JLA: Crisis of Conscience
Restarting series: New Avengers vs. Green Lantern
Deaths: Blue Beetle vs. Hawkeye
Returns: Bucky vs. Jason Todd
Different Line-up: Ultimate Universe vs. All-Star Universe
Special Features: Marvel Team-up vs. Brave and the Bold

There pretty much doing the same thing. The only thing that matters is the quality of the books. But if you want to talk about corporately driven Quesada take a look at your the things your selling.
Toxic(spiderman spin-off of another symbiote)
Arana(another spiderman knock-off)
X-23(wolverine knock-off)
Adding Spider-man and Wolverine to the Avengers(even though spider-man is a loner who talks a lot, and wolverine is an x-men)

[The Batman]

man, are Arana and X-23 annoying.

Marvel swears they're gonna find the next spider-man...i dont think thats gonna happen....

[Still A ThorFan]

How was that trolling?


Because when I made a post saying that Batman ended up with the better box office than FF4 I was accused of Trolling. Not to mention that I am a Marvel Zombie and made that post just to inform, I had no intentions of "trolling." Therefore, if me just giving out simple information is trolling, that is trolling as well.

[The Batman]

I already gave examples of trolling...

And your reasoning makes no sense. I think you're just trying to get at me.

[Docker2.0]

no he doesnt know how to run jack!!!! ( and its not him running the company, he only control the creative side, the suits run the company)


secondly, were all marvel junkies for the sake of it, if it wasnt for marvel's spiderman,hulk,daredevil,fantasic four, and avengers) you really think marvel would be ahead of the game by now? nope, didnt think so!!
You could say the same about Batman and Superman are all that DC has. :o
Anywho,I tend to agree that Joey Q. dont know a damn thing about what the fans think, nor does he care. I haven`t bought a Marvel comic in months now, ever since the Avengers Disambled debacle. Best decision I made since I discovered that pancakes are just as good as waffles. :o

[Docker2.0]

Fantastic Four: 150 Million dollars

Batman Begins: 204 million dollars

FF's RT ratring: 26%


BB's RT rating: 83 %

Now, that's impressive. Anyway, get back on topic, or leave the thread. your choice.
And what is the topic of this thread? I`ll be real with you, this has turn more or less into a Marvel hating thread. Instead of posting about Joey Q, it has turned into how come DC is better than Marvel. Dude is entitled to his opinion just like you are to yours. You can`t just bash Marvel to bits and think people aren`t going to respond. Besides, Joey Q is over the comic dept, not the movie dept. God, Batman Begins was a good movie, and I think it was the best movie of the year but the way batfans throw it in people face, it turns people away. It was a better movie than Spiderman but didnt make nowhere near the money that Spidey did so that speaks volumes. :o

[Supergirl]

And what is the topic of this thread? I`ll be real with you, this has turn more or less into a Marvel hating thread. Instead of posting about Joey Q, it has turned into how come DC is better than Marvel. Dude is entitled to his opinion just like you are to yours. You can`t just bash Marvel to bits and think people aren`t going to respond. Besides, Joey Q is over the comic dept, not the movie dept. God, Batman Begins was a good movie, and I think it was the best movie of the year but the way batfans throw it in people face, it turns people away. It was a better movie than Spiderman but didnt make nowhere near the money that Spidey did so that speaks volumes. :o
:confused: He posted that AFTER someone got off-topic and talked about how "FF disgraced Batman Begins", he quoted those statistics to prove them wrong :confused: If you're going to chew anyone a new ass-hole start with the person who started the off-topic conversation.

[Docker2.0]

:confused: He posted that AFTER someone got off-topic and talked about how "FF disgraced Batman Begins", he quoted those statistics to prove them wrong :confused: If you're going to chew anyone a new ass-hole start with the person who started the off-topic conversation.
I`m not talking about that one post,but this entire thread as well as the ones in the Marvel forums. Dude just seems to hate Marvel, which is cool, I`m not to fond of them now myself. But don`t expect people to take this lying down and not bite back.

[TheBatman1979]

I just believe in giving credit where its due. Quesada maybe a complete jackass, no one is disputing that, but the man did turn Marvel around. Everyone hating Ultimates and Bendis now (because its "cool") was kissing his ass four years ago. Everyone was saying "Ultimates rock!" and this is such a breath of fresh air, a return to good stories. Cause before him, we had all kinds of crap, like Heroes Reborn. Then he came along and started the MK series. He brought over big name writers. And before everyone starts saying DC is sooo quality, I recall it was DC signing exclusives to every writer they could think of.

I never bought an Ultimate title. I never have been nor will be a Bendis fan. Did Quesada turn around Marvel? No, Bill Jemas did, and then he left and now Quesada is running the company and profits for the first time in years are starting to drop. So figure it out.

[SpideyInATree]

I haven`t bought a Marvel comic in months now, ever since the Avengers Disambled debacle. Best decision I made since I discovered that pancakes are just as good as waffles. :o

If you haven't bought a Marvel comic since Avengers Disassembled than you haven't bought a Marvel comic in over a year, man. Which is kind of sad because you've missed a lot of excellent titles. :(

[sinewave]

Oh yeah, well Joe Quesada is driven by the desire for greasy fast food and.... ummmm..... uuuhhhhh........ Yoo-hoo enemas! Yeah, it's a well-known fact in the industry. Trust me.

[The Batman]

I`m not talking about that one post,but this entire thread as well as the ones in the Marvel forums. Dude just seems to hate Marvel, which is cool, I`m not to fond of them now myself. But don`t expect people to take this lying down and not bite back.

Not this BS again. FOR THE LAST TIME, I DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT hate Marvel comics. I've been trying to get this through your thick skull for about two years now. And for the record, after my post with the comparisons, which are REAL FACTS by the way, this thread went back on topic. You were the one who brought it back up again.

Damn. Two years and still cant buy a goddamn clue.

[Docker2.0]

and 2 years later you are still acting like a biatch! I`m not talking about this thread alone there are other threads where you just Marvel bash. Stop taking this so personal. You are forever on Pms! :rolleyes:

[The Batman]

Unless you can find a thread where i outright stated I hated Marvel comics, I suggest you stop writing checks your ass cant cash. That goes for you too, ThorFan.

find a thread where i said i hated marvel comics. FIND ONE

[Arkady Rossovich]

Just looking at the title of this thead,its the opposite.I see DC listing to its fans,good writing,good art.

On the other hand,Marvel doesnt listen to its fans,a number of its books have bad writing.Writers with huge egos,and the company doesnt have enough courage to take the writers off the lines.

Marvel is the one who is corporately driven.Or bad writer driven.

[The Ether]

man, are Arana and X-23 annoying.

Marvel swears they're gonna find the next spider-man...i dont think thats gonna happen....
your telling me...

[Docker2.0]

Unless you can find a thread where i outright stated I hated Marvel comics, I suggest you stop writing checks your ass cant cash. That goes for you too, ThorFan.

find a thread where i said i hated marvel comics. FIND ONE
You dont have to say it straight out, a blind man can see it. Everything with you is Marvel or DC. Both companies are driven by money, both have good writing and they both have bad writing. Stop bashing Marvel every chance you get. Now lets just leave it at that. No name calling, lets just call it a truce. :o

[The Batman]

No.

Tell me where i said I hated Marvel comics.

Dont try that Truce crap with me. you accused me of something. Now its time to prove your claims.

I want proof. Posts. I proved ThroFan was a troll a few posts ago. Now prove that I hate Marvel.

[The Sage]

You dont have to say it straight out, a blind man can see it. Everything with you is Marvel or DC. Both companies are driven by money, both have good writing and they both have bad writing. Stop bashing Marvel every chance you get. Now lets just leave it at that. No name calling, lets just call it a truce. :o

Sorry to cut in, but didn't The Batman mention that he read a Marvel comic this month? :confused:

[Supergirl]

and 2 years later you are still acting like a biatch! I`m not talking about this thread alone there are other threads where you just Marvel bash. Stop taking this so personal. You are forever on Pms! :rolleyes:
I'll flat out say it: I HATE Marvel.
You're bound to get alot of those types of responses in the **GASP** DC Forum. Yes alot of people like both but some like just one or the other. If you don't like people bashing your favorite company, don't come into a thread that even by the title you can clearly tell is going to be alot of people complaining about Quesada and the way Marvel is run. This thread was civil until you drug up an old post and started baiting The Batman.

[HighVoltage]

Unless you can find a thread where i outright stated I hated Marvel comics

find a thread where i said i hated marvel comics. FIND ONE

What About This Thread?

[Docker2.0]

I'll flat out say it: I HATE Marvel.
You're bound to get alot of those types of responses in the **GASP** DC Forum. Yes alot of people like both but some like just one or the other. If you don't like people bashing your favorite company, don't come into a thread that even by the title you can clearly tell is going to be alot of people complaining about Quesada and the way Marvel is run. This thread was civil until you drug up an old post and started baiting The Batman.
Are you his girlfriend? I didnt bait anyone into anything. I just said stop hating on Marvel everywhere you go. yall take this shhhhh way to personal.

[Docker2.0]

Sorry to cut in, but didn't The Batman mention that he read a Marvel comic this month? :confused:
Look at his post in the marvel threads,dude constantly finds any excuse to marvel bash. people get sick of that whining!
And Batman, if you want me to find a thread where you bash, just look at your last couple of posts. They say it enough. And I will state this again..........marvel AND dc are both money driven!

[The Batman]

Find me a thread where i said i hated marvel. You're not finding any. you have given no proof that i do. Just accusations.

and Bishop's not my girlfriend. she just recognizes your stupidity.

Now find a thread where i said i hated marvel. Or a post.

[The Batman]

Look at his post in the marvel threads,dude constantly finds any excuse to marvel bash. people get sick of that whining!
And Batman, if you want me to find a thread where you bash, just look at your last couple of posts. They say it enough. And I will state this again..........marvel AND dc are both money driven!

Since you cant seem to find any posts where i said i hated marvel(Mostly because you're wrong and you know it) I did look at the last couple of posts in this thread:

and no where did i say that i hated marvel or that they were more corperately driven.

I did, however, list examples where Marvel made seemingly corporate driven decisions, like everyone else in this thread. Yet, you seem to target me as hating marvel, because just like ThorFan, You just want to target me. The only people i bashed were Avi Arad and Joe Quesada, people who run marvel, not marvel itself, not marvel the company and not marvel the characters. Once again, find an example where i bashed marvel and said i hated them outright. you said examples can be found in this thread. where? all you're doing is saying "He bashes Marvel! He bashes Marvel!" where's the proof, Docker? Where's the proof? could it be that you cant find any?

[Docker2.0]

Find me a thread where i said i hated marvel. You're not finding any. you have given no proof that i do. Just accusations.

and Bishop's not my girlfriend. she just recognizes your stupidity.

Now find a thread where i said i hated marvel. Or a post.
Biatch didnt I say you didnt say it straight out! But the way you keep badgering about them speaks volumes! You dont like Marvel, get over it! If someone makes a comment about Batman, you take it personally with the name calling, like you did with me, only becuase I stated you are always biatching about marvel. After all this time, I would have thought by now you would have got a life and stop taking comic books so personal but I guess you cant teach a biatch how to lie down and roll over with him picking up fleas! Go ahead and call me a troll, who gives a monkeys ass, but for people who have been on the hype over 2 years, you are notorious for being the biggest ass clown when it comes to name calling becuase people disagreed with you.

[Docker2.0]

Since you cant seem to find any posts where i said i hated marvel(Mostly because you're wrong and you know it) I did look at the last couple of posts in this thread:

and no where did i say that i hated marvel or that they were more corperately driven.

I did, however, list examples where Marvel made seemingly corporate driven decisions, like everyone else in this thread. Yet, you seem to target me as hating marvel, because just like ThorFan, You just want to target me. The only people i bashed were Avi Arad and Joe Quesada, people who run marvel, not marvel itself, not marvel the company and not marvel the characters. Once again, find an example where i bashed marvel and said i hated them outright. you said examples can be found in this thread. where? all you're doing is saying "He bashes Marvel! He bashes Marvel!" where's the proof, Docker? Where's the proof? could it be that you cant find any?
Who do you think you are? You aint important! My life dont revolve around you! I have a girlfriend and dont take this personal, this is for entertainment purposes only. I just said why do you keep bashing marvel and their characters every chance you get. I didnt say you said you EVER said you hated Marvel, but the way you bash them every chance you get speaks volumes. Dont put words in mouth. I know cuase I am in a DC comics forum, people are going to side with you which is cool. I wont lose an ounce of sleep cuase of it. But if someone came and did the exact samething that you did,you would go into labor. Why? Cuase that is what biatches do. :o

[The Batman]

Are you his girlfriend? I didnt bait anyone into anything. I just said stop hating on Marvel everywhere you go. yall take this shhhhh way to personal.


you were baiting docker, just like ThorFan was claiming i was trolling. No one brought up F4 and BB again until YOU started posting. All you do is make accusations with NO PROOF. and then when you know you're beat, you try to pull out the "Truce" card. well, I'm here to tell you that that wont work, not until you bring evidence where i said i hated Marvel comics. I bash Batman comics alot, sometimes for maybe the dumbest reasons. Does that mean I hate Batman? No. that means that the Batman titles are doing things that I'm not find of. just like Marvel is doing recently.

[The Batman]

Who do you think you are? You aint important! My life dont revolve around you! I have a girlfriend and dont take this personal, this is for entertainment purposes only. I just said why do you keep bashing marvel and their characters every chance you get. I didnt say you said you EVER said you hated Marvel, but the way you bash them every chance you get speaks volumes. Dont put words in mouth. I know cuase I am in a DC comics forum, people are going to side with you which is cool. I wont lose an ounce of sleep cuase of it. But if someone came and did the exact samething that you did,you would go into labor. Why? Cuase that is what biatches do. :o

Took me 5 minutes to bring up ThorFan's post count.

and you did say I hated marvel comics. I didnt put words in your mouth. people are going to side with me because they know all you're doing is trying to flame me docker.

and you're still calling me a "Biatch". what happened to no name calling? all i want you to do is back up your claims, Docker. Dont make statements when you dont have proof.

[The Batman]

I`m not talking about that one post,but this entire thread as well as the ones in the Marvel forums. Dude just seems to hate Marvel, which is cool, I`m not to fond of them now myself. But don`t expect people to take this lying down and not bite back.

you didnt say it, huh?

[Docker2.0]

I dont need phucking proof! I dont take this serious. You can wait till roaches mutate and start to sing operate, I aint into it like that. I said it from jump and I will say it again, both marvel and DC are driven by money and you will have to be an idiot to think otherwise. On that note, I`m out of here. It takes a big man to walk away from this garbage but a biatch to keep biatching about it. So talk about me like a dog when I leave, thats what you do best, biatch. I`ll give you less than a week before you marvel bash in another thread. You will try your best not to cuase I pointed it out here. You may continue where you left off..........biatching as usual.

[The Batman]

I dont need phucking proof! I dont take this serious. You can wait till roaches mutate and start to sing operate, I aint into it like that. I said it from jump and I will say it again, both marvel and DC are driven by money and you will have to be an idiot to think otherwise. On that note, I`m out of here. It takes a big man to walk away from this garbage but a biatch to keep biatching about it. So talk about me like a dog when I leave, thats what you do best, biatch. I`ll give you less than a week before you marvel bash in another thread. You will try your best not to cuase I pointed it out here. You may continue where you left off..........biatching as usual.

you're not a big man though. you talk the talk but you cant walk the walk. That's your problem and that'll always be your problem. You dont take this seriously, yet you're the one calling me a "biatch" when i have yet to insult you. you're not a big man. you just want the last word.

[Supergirl]

Are you his girlfriend? I didnt bait anyone into anything. I just said stop hating on Marvel everywhere you go. yall take this shhhhh way to personal.
No, I'm not his girlfriend. I just don't like people baiting others into flame fests if it was him baiting you, I'd tell him to stop too. If you are SOOO annoyed by the topic being discussed in this thread... GET OUT OF IT.

[Guyverjay]

Geez is this the thread of cliches now?:D

[The Batman]

More like the thread where morons try to call out the Batman and lose thread.

And i'm not just saying that....

[Anubis]

Man, what happened here.

[The Batman]

Docker claimed I hate Marvel Comics. i asked him to prove it. He called me a biatch and then left.

[SpideyInATree]

Sheesh. Who cares if The Batman hates Marvel or doesn't hate Marvel. What's it hurting you? Docker...are you secretly Joe Quesada!!! :eek: Or a Marvel worker?!?! :eek:

The guy at the comic shop I go to always complains about Marvel and how asstastic they've become. Should I tell him to stop his *****ing and whining or ignore it and buy my comic books? Yeah, I ignore it. You should try that ignore thing too. Trust me...it's a lot easier to ignore comments on a message board than some irritating voice going through your head saying, "Marvel is about the movie business now. They just produce the comics to make people like us happy. And they're doing a horrible job of that, the facists". :o

[The Batman]

I dont hate or dislike Marvel comics. Just making that clear

[sinewave]

Man, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been shut down yet, what with all the name calling back and forth. It's all one big pissing match.

[The Leaguer]

Shut up. You're stupid.

[Herr Logan]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?

*shuddering with rage*

*choking on the hypocrisy*

Are you fecking kidding me?!!

Now, I know very little about DC Comics' editorial policies or even most of their characters. I've read far more Marvel comics in my time than DC, for no reason other than I fell in love with several of those characters and then didn't have enough money to pay for DC comics at the same time. Right now, my Marvel intake is severely limited, and I often end up buying a DC comic when I go to the comics store. Again, this isn't because I think one is better than the other, but I feel compelled to pay for at least one item after reading a stack of mediocre comics I don't intend to buy, and that usually ends up being a Batman comic if I can't find a decent Marvel one, which is often.

I don't know if DC Comics is more corporately driven than Marvel, but if it is, then it must be extremely, unspeakably, mind-bogglingly corporately driven, because "corporately driven" (or a synonym thereof) is the first term that comes to mind when I think about the current state of Marvel Comics. It's almost completely trash at this point. My beloved characters have either been bastardized themselves or drowned in a flood of other characters and stories that have been corrupted with the sleazy, self-promoting jackassery that runs rampant through the once-great "House of Ideas."

I haven't heard anything about Joe Quesada in recent years that doesn't involve lying, bragging or childishly insulting what used to be known as the Distinguished Competition. He has precious little creative talent, zero integrity and less class than an elementary school on a Sunday. Go to hell, Joe Quesada, and take your sleazy, lazy pet authors with you! As I've said, I know very little about DC Comics, but I do know that if they are indeed more corporately driven than Marvel, they must be trying awfully hard to do so. **** you, Quesada!

:wolverine

[The Batman]

Stan Lee or Jim Shooter really need to take over marvel again.

[sinewave]

Shut up. You're stupid.

:D Ya got me there, ya big fart-face! :D

[The Leaguer]

Poopy-head!

[sinewave]

Hey, this is OT, but where can I get a cool Green Arrow or Solomon Grundy avatar. I suck at photo manipulation and have failed miserably at attempting to host certain pics? Can someone help a brotha out, please?

[sinewave]

Poopy-head!

Can't beat that one. You're just too darn vicious! You with your black-heart! Curse you!!!!!!

[Herr Logan]

Well, I see what he THINKS he's talking about. At Marvel, the monkeys run the zoo. Complete creative license to do whatever the hell they want. At DC, they USE their editors.

I prefer the latter.

Actually, this is a very good point and I neglected to address it adequately.

Perhaps it's innaccurate to simply say that Marvel is mostly corporately driven. On the other hand, I don't understand why these pet authors would have done some of the things they've done if not for the sake of hitting the lowest common denominator in order to promote sales from the unwashed masses.

Actually, I can think of an example of sales-driven editorial intervention (by Joey Q himself) in what would otherwise be a completely "creatively driven" (totally the wrong word to use, but we'll pretend it fits just so Joey Q's ego can sleep well tonight) story decision. It's Straczinsky's most controversial story-- one that shall not be named by me, although I'm sure that won't prevent another flame war between the sheep and goats regardless-- and while Straczinsky originally took full credit for his literary abomination, he later revealed his true, cowardly nature and passed the buck back to Quesada, who made JMS change his story so that Peter Parker would not end up looking "old" in the eyes of the reader. You people know what I'm talking about. So that right there is an example of an idiotic creative decision made even worse by editorial veto power.

For the most part, I suppose that the writers do whatever they damn well please, but I do believe this is approved by the big boy in charge because he believes this kind of schlock sells well with the teeny-bopper crowd. Sadly enough, I've heard middle-aged, long-time readers also voice their approval of these creative failures. Now, I know that humans are fairly stupid, but I don't think it's an accident that the stories turned out in such a way that this stupidity reacts favorably. I think it's more calculated than just taking a laissez-faire approach to running the company. That doesn't mean it's inordinately intelligent or has any integrity, though. Think "People" magazine. That's the paradigm at work when Joe Quesada lets stupid, trashy stories make it into print.

:wolverine

[The Batman]

The story, which i wont name either, shouldnt have been made in the first place. either way, it ruined long standing characters, much like the recent Batman 644 did

[Herr Logan]

The story, which i wont name either, shouldnt have been made in the first place. either way, it ruined long standing characters, much like the recent Batman 644 did

What happened in Batman 644?

I may well have that issue or have read it, but I don't know from issue numbers.

:wolverine

[The Batman]

It came out last week i think. anyhow...*SPOILERS*


It was revealed that, Leslie Thompkins, the surrogate mother in Batman's life, the one who took a hipocratic oath as a doctor, let spoiler die from her injuries to prove a point to Batman. i've always felt that as good as DC's been doing, they've dropped the ball on the bat-books, which is why i'm glad Peter Tomasi's taking over Batman and Detective.

[Herr Logan]

It came out last week i think. anyhow...*SPOILERS*


It was revealed that, Leslie Thompkins, the surrogate mother in Batman's life, the one who took a hipocratic oath as a doctor, let spoiler die from her injuries to prove a point to Batman. i've always felt that as good as DC's been doing, they've dropped the ball on the bat-books, which is why i'm glad Peter Tomasi's taking over Batman and Detective.

...

Marvel... DC... **** you both!! :mad:

Well, when I eventually finish my "Batman Begins" re-treatment and post it in my Safe Haven, I'm still putting her in it. As far as I'm concerned, Marvel continuity stopped being canon years ago, and Batman continuity stopped being real... I dunno, sometime before last week.

:wolverine

[The Batman]

Dont worry...Bob Schrek and Bill Willingham are on their way out...

[SpideyInATree]

Dont worry...Bob Schrek and Bill Willingham are on their way out...

You should check out Bill Willingham's comments on the reaction to Batman # 644 in the "Leslie!!!!" thread over on the Bat boards. Should peak your interest further. :o

[The Batman]

i read the comments on his forum...and he's full of it. He's written some bad bat stories, though for the most part 644 was decent

[Herr Logan]

i read the comments on his forum...and he's full of it. He's written some bad bat stories, though for the most part 644 was decent

I read that little mocking speech of his in a thread here... he's an a$$hole. What's really sad is that he's being honest throughout a lot of that rancorous address. Conceited little punks like that shouldn't be allowed to write for Batman comics if they can't sublimate their arrogant notions by projecting them onto the Batman and keeping them there.

:wolverine

[Dwarf lord]

i read the comments on his forum...and he's full of it. He's written some bad bat stories, though for the most part 644 was decent

But he's a damn good writer. Fables anyone?

[Supergirl]

Yeah Willingham may not be good at Bats, but he's still writing (IMO) the best comic in the market in Fables. Its the one comic I find myself rereading the backissues of just to pass the time between new issues. A month is too damned long to wait for new issues of Fables.

[The Leaguer]

As far as I'm concered, everything Willingham has written that I've read has been gold, including Fables, Robin and the Batman story.

[Sarge]

It came out last week i think. anyhow...*SPOILERS*


It was revealed that, Leslie Thompkins, the surrogate mother in Batman's life, the one who took a hipocratic oath as a doctor, let spoiler die from her injuries to prove a point to Batman. i've always felt that as good as DC's been doing, they've dropped the ball on the bat-books, which is why i'm glad Peter Tomasi's taking over Batman and Detective.
Is he taking over after IC?

[The Batman]

Yup.

DC wanted to shake things up. Eddie Berganza's no longer superman editor

[Sarge]

Yup.

DC wanted to shake things up. Eddie Berganza's no longer superman editor
I just want to put Laphams run on Detective as far in the past as possible. DC can change as many writers as needed to do so.

[The Batman]

I know. the Bat-Books havent been good on the whole in ages. Winnick's Batman is decent though

[Sarge]

I know. the Bat-Books havent been good on the whole in ages. Winnick's Batman is decent though
Winick could very well become the next big dog at DC. The only problem I have with him is bringing back Jason Todd without explanation. He writes great stories otherwise.

[The Batman]

I think it'll be explained. He wants to keep the mystery...

[Sarge]

I think it'll be explained. He wants to keep the mystery...
Of course. Hopefully he'll actually do something in the IC.

Off topic, but a Winter Soldier (Bucky) and Red Hood (Todd) showdown would be pretty cool.

[The Batman]

yeah, it would.

though soldier would probably win

[Sarge]

Stupid Marvel and their super soldier serum...:p

Makes me wonder why people complain about DC being overpowered.

[sinewave]

Why does anyone care what Joey Q. thinks of his competition? Besides, I heard he eats babies and rapes horses! :D Sorry, that might have been a tad tasteless. Anywho, now that I've got your attention (hopefully), can anyone answer my question from earlier in this thread about helping me find or make a cool Solomon Grundy avatar, please? That old "Dawn of the Dead" zombie one is getting stale. Thanks!

[SG_Darkness]

[QUOTE=Who has about 3 or 4 different imprints for their comics? Who is licensing and merchandising the heck out of their movies, animated properties and the comics themselves? PLEASE!! C'mon, Quesada!:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

Could not have been sum up and more better than that :up:

[Arkady Rossovich]

If anything Marvel is overpowered.DC has more of "real life" powered heros.With weaknesses,except Superman.I doubt Marvel has a near omnipotient hero like Superman.

That is what appeals to me about DC.

Marvel is corporately driven.

[Deadpool187]

Uh arent they all

[daveswb]

Interesting. I rarely venture in here, because I'm a marvel (Spider-man) fan but there is a thread in the marvel board on the linesw of the same thing.

Go back 40 years ago and the comic book industry was not creative in the fact that the majority of the industry was geared toward small kids and what they thought were stupid adults. Now enter Stan "The Man" Lee and his little book the fantastic 4, which changed the face of the industry.

Now over the years it can be argued that both DC and Marvel have gone through phases where they were creative and phases where they seemed to be market driven. Right now I think Marvel is the most market driven they've been in a long time and it's been going on for the last couple years.

Civil war is a book about the events happening more than it is about the chracters involved. It's comming off as a big shock and awe book for the sake of selling big numbers. It is not a bad idea, it is just poorly executed. And it really is hurting thier credibility among the die hard fans.

I haven't read any of 52, so I can not comment on it.

But for any comic book company to come out and say that is just plan wrong a this point. They are after all buisness and are all after money. They aren't doing this for the pure fun of writting books. If they were they'd do it in thier spare time for free. You want creative driven books look at the independents.

[Prognosticator]

Whereas Marvel's comics are Creatively driven.

Do you agree with this?

This is BASS-ACKWARDS!!!

[The Batman]

I must say that, while my opionion of JQ being a hipocryte still stands, marvel has been putting out some damn good stuff. I think Civil War's story is more exciting and entertaining than Infinite Crisis, and stuff like Astonishing X-Men, Captain America, and Daredevil prove that just because you're driven by the bottom line dosent mean good stories arent being put out

[roach]

I wish people would stop praising Ultimates as something new and fresh...it's just Authority in a different package

[Docker2.0]

If anything Marvel is overpowered.DC has more of "real life" powered heros.With weaknesses,except Superman.I doubt Marvel has a near omnipotient hero like Superman.

That is what appeals to me about DC.

Marvel is corporately driven.
Marvel heroes more overpowered than DC? Whatever. :rolleyes:
Both DC and Marvel are corporately driven hence the "big events" each summer. However I will say DC tends to respect their heroes history and not run by some jackass who doesn't give a damn about their history.
History. Its sad that I talk like these heroes really existed. :(

[Kitsune]

I dont hate Bendis, but his New Avengers is filler, Ultimate Spider-Man became garbage when he killed Gwen for no good reason(Though i hear the annual was good), and i dont read powers so i dont know about that. His Daredevil's ok though.
Wow, that's exactly when and why I stopped reading USM.

[Darthphere]

YAY! This thread again.

[Doc Destruction]

Holy thread ressurection! I saw my response and did a double take, thinking "I didn't respond to this!" Then I saw the dates...holy crap.

[Kitsune]

Holy thread ressurection! I saw my response and did a double take, thinking "I didn't respond to this!" Then I saw the dates...holy crap.
It's the Venturestien of Threads.

[Fred_Fury]

Quesada is just mad cause he knows superman can wup any superheroes ass in the marvel universe.

and so can batman... as long as he has prep time.

[fifthfiend]

I wish people would stop praising Ultimates as something new and fresh...it's just Authority in a different package

I don't know why some people insist that 'tough super-hero team' = The Authority.

I mean yeah, aside from it being a book about a team being founded and run by the US government in the pursuit of nationalist objectives featuring largely introspective character arcs generating drama from its own team members' hidden alliegances and personal agendas, all of which standing in stark contrast with a book known for widescreen antics and extended set-piece battles set in the service of an iconoclastic world-beating agenda, sure, it's just like the Authority.

[Tropico]

I don't know why some people insist that 'tough super-hero team' = The Authority.

I mean yeah, aside from it being a book about a team being founded and run by the US government in the pursuit of nationalist objectives featuring largely introspective character arcs generating drama from its own team members' hidden alliegances and personal agendas, all of which standing in stark contrast with a book known for widescreen antics and extended set-piece battles set in the service of an iconoclastic world-beating agenda, sure, it's just like the Authority.

The post you quoted doesn't generalize the same way you did; it compares it specifically to Ultimates. And I have to agree, it might be something new for Marvel and Marvel fans, but it's nothing new to DC/Wildstorm readers.

[fifthfiend]

The post you quoted doesn't generalize the same way you did; it compares it specifically to Ultimates. And I have to agree, it might be something new for Marvel and Marvel fans, but it's nothing new to DC/Wildstorm readers.

Except for the two books being totally different, you are absolutely correct.

[Tropico]

No.

[fifthfiend]

More like yes.

[Darthphere]

No.

[The Leaguer]

No.

[batnkevlar]

I think they're different...

I mean, their both badass, their both superheroes on crack... otherwise, I don't know, any other similarities?

[fifthfiend]

No
No

More like Yes and Yes!

[Dwarf lord]

I think they're different...

I mean, their both badass, their both superheroes on crack... otherwise, I don't know, any other similarities?

Which is one of the main reasons that Ultimates was praised in the first place. That's why it was hailed as innovative, but it's not. Existing characters and old premise. Nothing new here.

[Tropico]

More like Yes and Yes!

What are you doing while you surf the boards? Ew!:(

[fifthfiend]

Which is one of the main reasons that Ultimates was praised in the first place. That's why it was hailed as innovative, but it's not. Existing characters and old premise. Nothing new here.

Which, except for the reimagining of said characters wedded to an entirely different premise, would be totally true. Except well it has those things, so that's not true at all.

I mean no you might have a point, I mean honestly haven't there been enough comics reimagining the avengers as a government-founded and operated super team put to explicitly nationalistic and frequently questionably moral goals and yet written with an eye towards affirming a fundamentally patriotic point of view, staffed by a Thor who preaches a gospel of peace and may secretly a lunatic, a Captain America who's an unabashed knee-jerk reactionary, a Hank Pym who bashes Wanda's face in and then attacks her with a swarm of ants, putting her in the hospital, and a Bruce Banner who deliberately creates the Hulk in violation of federal law, ostensibly in pursuit of further project funding but in truth largely in service to his own wounded ego?

Oh wait no that's right, there's only been one comic like that. Oh well.

What are you doing while you surf the boards?

Banging your mom.

That was her typing by the way, she wanted you to know how good I was givin' it to her.

[The Leaguer]

Okay guys, calm down. Let's just agree that the Ultimates shouldn't exist and we can all move on to how utterly lack-luster Spider-Man is right now.

[fifthfiend]

You're right, JLA is totally lackluster right now.

Must be cause of what an unoriginal writer Brad Metzler is.

[Tropico]

Which, except for the reimagining of said characters wedded to an entirely different premise, would be totally true. Except well it has those things, so that's not true at all.

I mean no you might have a point, I mean honestly haven't there been enough comics reimagining the avengers as a government-founded and operated super team put to explicitly nationalistic and frequently questionably moral goals and yet written with an eye towards affirming a fundamentally patriotic point of view, staffed by a Thor who preaches a gospel of peace and may secretly a lunatic, a Captain America who's an unabashed knee-jerk reactionary, a Hank Pym who bashes Wanda's face in and then attacks her with a swarm of ants, putting her in the hospital, and a Bruce Banner who deliberately creates the Hulk in violation of federal law, ostensibly in pursuit of further project funding but in truth largely in service to his own wounded ego?

Oh wait no that's right, there's only been one comic like that. Oh well.



Banging your mom.

That was her typing by the way, she wanted you to know how good I was givin' it to her.

Wow, you HAVE earned your sig!:D

You can stay in denial all you want, but the premise of the Ultimates: heroes that might not always want to be heroes and have their own serious problems, was already done. The details, like you so anally posted, are what change and that's true for every other comic. But the theme and character interactions are nothing new, especially if you've been following Millar during his StormWatch days which later evolved into The Authority.

[The Leaguer]

You're right, JLA is totally lackluster right now.

Must be cause of what an unoriginal writer Brad Metzler is.
Yep.

[DavidTyler]

Honestly, I think both companies are a bit corporate and a bit creative.
That's not a crime. In order for you to read next month's books, they have to get you to spend money on this month's.

The unfortunate thing is that both companies may look at things going on outside of the books and say 'Oh, the public wants lighter superheroes? OK, we'll do that.' or the opposite. It's not as bad as the television industry which is truly run by corporate. In comix, the Quesada's and Didio's have more control over product. The suits may say 'make it more like the current movie' and the talent will give in a little but I think there's more integrity in comix than in a lot of other artistic/product fields.

[fifthfiend]

Wow, you HAVE earned your sig!:D

I keep it there so people like you can point it out and think they've said something clever.

You can stay in denial all you want, but the premise of the Ultimates: heroes that might not always want to be heroes and have their own serious problems, was already done. The details, like you so anally posted, are what change and that's true for every other comic. But the theme and character interactions are nothing new, especially if you've been following Millar during his StormWatch days which later evolved into The Authority.

Um, so which of Millar's Stormwatch days would those be? Cause I'm pretty sure those days don't actually exist.

But good job comprehending the premise of the Ultimates on its most ridiculously simplistic level.

Hey you know Superman totally had the 'superheroes fighting crime' premise down pat. I don't know why they even bothered to go and start making those blatantly derivative Batman comics, I mean all Batman does is fight crime, just like Superman does. So unoriginal.

The theme of the Authority, and of Stormwatch before it, was of a group of idealists trying to use their extraordinary abilities in a proactive way to make the world into what they envision as being a better place. The Ultimates is about a group of cynics and con-artists using the trappings of superheroism to advance their own inherently selfish aims. These both constitute unique variations on the standard superhero-team archetype and, despite what you might otherwise imagine, are not the same thing.

Yep.

Well at least we've found common ground somewhere.

Heck, I'll even give you that Spider-Man sucks now, no extra charge.

[Tropico]

I keep it there so people like you can point it out and think they've said something clever.

Lol, never thought I was being clever or sarcastic, just pointing out a fact.:D

Um, so which of Millar's Stormwatch days would those be? Cause I'm pretty sure those days don't actually exist.

You're absolutely right! I confused him with Ellis. got my "ll's" mixed up.:o

But good job comprehending the premise of the Ultimates on its most ridiculously simplistic level.

Hey, it's what the creators were peddling when the book was gonna come out and they wanted to tell people what it was about quickly. I'm sorry if you can't see the similarities or that they operate basically from the same premise. The StormWatch team per se might have been somewhat idealistic but Bendix was leading them and it wasn't for the betterment of the world it was for his own selfish motives (like what you pointed out for Ultimates). Jenny Sparks vision for The Authority was to reach what SHE considered was an ideal and worked to promote it. Although they were working towards and ideal, they still engaged in excesses and the perks of being celebrities. You can even draw lines directly from Cap and Sparks, the Doctor and Tony and you'll see how much alike their characters are.

It's great that you feel they're doing something new in Ultimates. Apart from the characters, TO ME it's a lot like the Authority. Please, PLEASE, note that I said that they're alike; I never said there were the same in any of my posts. I like the Ultimates, but I don't see it as groundbreaking for the genre. In fact, this last issue felt very Authority-like to me, it reminded me a lot of the Kaizen Gamorra storyline. I'm not entering a debate with you here, I'm not trying to be right; I'm just telling you why I feel the way I do about it. I'm pretty sure that you'll disagree with me, and that's ok; it's just opinions.

[The Leaguer]

Well at least we've found common ground somewhere.

Heck, I'll even give you that Spider-Man sucks now, no extra charge.
No one "gives" me anything, I take what I want. Like money. And sex.

[thedarks0ldier]

No one "gives" me anything, I take what I want. Like money. And sex.
That makes 13 of us

[droogiedroogie2]

More like Yes and Yes!How can you be so childish? Is it deliberate?

[Eros]

Hell a pre-crisis superman could beat the christian,Jewish, and Islamic Gods and other gods of various religions.