Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[The Geek Vault]

In Books of Doom, Doom mentions how all people are nothing to him. I agree with what some others have said here; Doom basically views all others as underlings and pawns in his game of global domination.

[32CAGE]

Are we reading the same book? Because I haven't seen anything like that happen. Storm hasn't been in any way shape or form his "Tonto". Of course, i've never been all that huge of a Storm fan, so I guess the people who follow her more would have a better vantage point. Or maybe that's the problem. You're trying to apply her role as a leader of the X-Men to what she's doing now, which is really on a much grander scale. Has she ever really been in a position like she is now? Being a world leader? This isn't the X-Men, this is a major world power. The way I figure, she's gonna need time to adjust to this new role. And so far, they've been showing it. Just look at her recent tiff with Stark, and now making the decision of possibly registering. This not only goes against what BP wants, but her fellow X-Men as well. She's making decisions for the good of her people now. (or adopted people or whatever.)

As far as her eyes not going white, that's just the artists interpritation. Unless i've missed some sorta memo where they say she can't have her eyes go white all of a sudden. Seems kinda petty to me.

I agree with Anubis. Hudlin is not writing a great book but he is writing an acceptable one. I see Storm adjusting to her new role as queen of Wakanda and the responsibilities that go along with it. I don't see her as a floor mat for the panther. They are married and in a marital relationship there must be compromise and mutual submission. Complete independence is not the name of the game. Usually marriages where the partners try to remain completely independent fail.

I have found the stories thus far to be very interesting although imho the artwork leaves much to be desired.

Lastly it is impossible for Hudlin to try to please all of the fans. That is an impossiblity because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Most X-fans didn't want Storm to get married in the first place, so Hudlin's ability to woo them will be an exercise in futility.

All Hudlin can do is have a vison for the characters and write them in a way that is fascinating. Contrary to what some of the polsters have said, i truely believe Hudlin cares about these characters. He is not just writing the Black Panther to make money. Reggie is multi-talented and he doesn't need to write a comic book to make money. He is writing this comic book because he is a fan. If he is successful in writing these particular characters in a way that inspires others the book will be bought and read. If he is not, it will either be cancelled or assigned to another writer.

The best option for those who hate this book is just not to read it. Just remember there are many other fans like myself that feel differently.

[deemar325]

Guess who's Back!?

[Anubis]

Reggie Jackson?

[deemar325]

Reggie never left.








My heart that is.

[Dr.Doom]

I find Lightning Strykez to be full of himself.

I must buy this comic with Doom.

That is all.

[La The Darkman]

And the things they do and say now are just off-target ("You've got me straight trippin' boo?" When did the King Of Wakanda get hood!? :csad: )

I think you're being very misleading by saying mentioning that and leaving out the fact that that line was used in the House of M tie in and that the line itself was a quote with T'challa saying something along the lines of "What is it that the Americans say "you got me straight tripping boo"....It's not like he himself said it on his own in a regular issue of the series.

I think Hudlin is doing ok......nothing great though, it's fun book that I enjoy reading, but I will admit the wedding arch lost my instrest a bit....I like the idea of the pairing I just feel that the whole wedding stuff was rushed....There is a histroy between these two even without the retcon but not enough to forgive how rushed everything felt.....I think it's going great now though, Storm is the only character that's actually put Black Panther in his place, but she was also smart enough to know she should follow HIS lead in diplomatic precedings seeing as how she not as well versed in them as he is.

[FEAR THE BAT]

I find Lightning Strykez to be full of himself.

I must buy this comic with Doom.

That is all.

I concur.

[Anubis]

Heres the scene in question

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/AnubisGOD/Marvel%20II/RacistDoom.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/AnubisGOD/Marvel%20II/RacistDoom2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/AnubisGOD/Marvel%20II/RacistDoom3.jpg

[Anubis]

I personally think he was just trying to get under BP's skin.

[terry78]

Yeah, he was definitely saying it just to mess with him. Though I can see the racial undertones quite clearly when Storm accuses him, though I think she was being sarcastic, as was he.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Its still stupid.

[Anubis]

Seems like it worked though. Riled him up a bit. He then went right behind that and called him Cap's side kick. The guys a douche. That's the kinda thing that douche's do. He even poked fun at him after Storm hit him with a bolt of lightening. Like whats the matter? Can't check your woman? The guys an ass. I think that's all they were showing.

[T'Jai]

Yeah but it's uncharacteristic of Doom to use such a trite and ignorant methodology as it is for Panther to fall for it...

[tamron]

Who hasn't been written out of character lately? Marvel's been bending and flexing what is "characteristic" of these characters to make Civil War work. This panel seems no different.

[Anubis]

Yeah but it's uncharacteristic of Doom to use such a trite and ignorant methodology as it is for Panther to fall for it...


Is it? He used to poke fun at how ugly and stupid the Thing is all the time.

[T'Jai]

... damn gud point...

but panther shouldn't have fallen 4 it:o

[Anubis]

The power of the douche bag is strong with Doom. I bet he could make Jesus kick him in the crotch.

[deemar325]

I personally think he was just trying to get under BP's skin.


Agree and he used a bit of continuity, (Doom mentioning being in Hell..etc..)

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah but it's uncharacteristic of Doom to use such a trite and ignorant methodology as it is for Panther to fall for it...

well doom does have Nazi affiliations

[deemar325]

Whazzat?

[spideyboy_1111]

Whazzat?

... what he does... hes been in cahoots with redskull before for instance

[deemar325]

Oh yeah.

[Dr.Doom]

Doom never said "which compensates for his lack of intelligence."

[FEAR THE BAT]

Did he atleast use derogatory words and slurs???

[spideyboy_1111]

Did he atleast use derogatory words and slurs???

lol bud, its right there posted on this page read it... :cwink:

[Dr.Doom]

just read the scans

[La The Darkman]

Did he atleast use derogatory words and slurs???

Nope.....I think the whole thing was just blown WAY out of proportion by some...alot of complaints about this series either don't happen at all or don't happen like people make it seems like it does (like the "straight tripping boo" thing i mentioned earlier). The current Black Panther title isn't perfect by any stretch but it's not even close to as bad as some would have you believe.

[Dr.Doom]

black people are WAY to sensitive

[Lightning Strykez!]

black people are WAY to sensitive

That comment was unneccessary and...well, stupid. :whatever: Stop making them.

And please stick to the topic at hand. Thanks.


I think you're being very misleading by saying mentioning that and leaving out the fact that that line was used in the House of M tie in and that the line itself was a quote with T'challa saying something along the lines of "What is it that the Americans say "you got me straight tripping boo"....It's not like he himself said it on his own in a regular issue of the series.

You make a good point and I apologize--I wasn't deliberately trying to mislead anyone (I didn't have the comic in front of me when I posted that comment, but I remembered the quote).

However, my basic point remains: T'Challa considers American Society to be substandard and rife with cultural inadequacies. IMO, it is out of character for him to subscribe to this country's slang to express his feelings about a woman he cares about. Using it trivialized his intelligence and sophistication as a Monarch...and to me it was just an obvious effort to make the comic "hip" to black readers.

Do you agree with that assessment?


I think Hudlin is doing ok......nothing great though, it's fun book that I enjoy reading, but I will admit the wedding arch lost my instrest a bit....I like the idea of the pairing I just feel that the whole wedding stuff was rushed....There is a histroy between these two even without the retcon but not enough to forgive how rushed everything felt....

I'm with you on this.

As I mentioned, I've been collecting BP for many years now. And the concept of the two of them married in of itself is great--I have zero problem with the union. It's the way that it was executed that I thought left a lot to be desired.

Here's my gripe: Other high profile character marriages (like the aforementioned Reed/Susan, Pete/Mary Jane, Scott/Emma/Jean, etc.) are given months or years to incubate so fans can actually absorb the developments at a natural pace. So why were Marvel's two highest profile black characters denied this treatment? I felt this approach reduced them to basically an arranged marriage. True, there was some tiny precedent for their relationship under Priest's run, but not nearly enough to warrant a fast-track wedding. Why Quesada & Co. couldn't give Ororo and T'Challa's situation time to breathe like everyone else's is beyond me. :csad:

Oh, wait...they wanted to tie it in for last year's Black History Month...that's right. :down::rolleyes:

I think it's going great now though, Storm is the only character that's actually put Black Panther in his place, but she was also smart enough to know she should follow HIS lead in diplomatic precedings seeing as how she not as well versed in them as he is.

Agreed to an extent.

With a few exception, I've actually never really had too much problem with the way Hudlin handles T'Challa himself...I think he "gets" him. I liked the arcs involving Falcon, Luke, Blade and the "Wild Kingdom" crossover. You know what's really funny? I actually thought Hudlin wrote Storm decently during that time period. Something has happened since then...and I don't recognize her right now.

There's nothing we can really do about it--the marriage is done. There's potential for growth, but only time will tell.


Who hasn't been written out of character lately? Marvel's been bending and flexing what is "characteristic" of these characters to make Civil War work. This panel seems no different.

Agreed, and that's the crux of the matter for me. Also, thanks to Anubis for posting the panels in question. :up:

[Anubis]

Looking at that whole comic again, makes me really wish Scott Eaton was still doing the art. He did a pretty good job. I mean, if you can't have JRJR, then I guess Eaton isn't a bad replacement.


Oh and somebody mentioned something earlier about why JRJR wasn't on the book anymore and that was because he was doing the Sentry mini with Jenkins followed by working with Gaimen on Eternals. All this was set up ahead of time, so it was always gonna be a six issue arc. Just something to get people to buy it when it first came out. Hey, what chu gonna do? It's Neil f**king Gaimen and Jack Kirby characters. (Incidentally, so is BP.) You get an offer like that, you do it.

[Darthphere]

Looking at that whole comic again, makes me really wish Scott Eaton was still doing the art. He did a pretty good job. I mean, if you can't have JRJR, then I guess Eaton isn't a bad replacement.


Oh and somebody mentioned something earlier about why JRJR wasn't on the book anymore and that was because he was doing the Sentry mini with Jenkins followed by working with Gaimen on Eternals. All this was set up ahead of time, so it was always gonna be a six issue arc. Just something to get people to buy it when it first came out. Hey, what chu gonna do? It's Neil f**king Gaimen and Jack Kirby characters. (Incidentally, so is BP.) You get an offer like that, you do it.

Or you don't and work on Spider-Man again.

[Anubis]

Bah, screw Spider-Man.

[Darthphere]

I did. He isn't any good.

[Anubis]

Yeah, I could tell. I got a seventh sense about these things.

[Lightning Strykez!]

So Anubis was mentioning to me that Black Panther and Storm are joining the Fantastic Four. I think this is a good idea if for anything just giving the royal couple some larger MU exposure beyond Black Panther.

Interestingly enough, McDuffy is writing this new FF line-up. Love, love, love this man's work. But If I'm not mistaken, isn't he African American? I ask because it seems that whenever BP is written these days it's by a man of color (Hudlin and Priest are black too). I question if this is some unspoken Marvel standard or just coincidence? :confused:

Also, does anyone think Ororo and T'Challa will don blue FF uniforms? I can imagine the latter designing some high-tech navy derivative laced with vibranium. ;)

[terry78]

I do agree with the whole Civil War thing. Suddenly all our favorite characters are dealing with something on par with blacklisting and concentration camp type stuff, and it's affecting them in different ways, both heroes and villains. I can give Hudlin some slack if that is indeed why he's going this route.

[Miss Webb]

Call me unorthodox...but Beverly Johnson was born to play Storm in my opinion.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/oscars/74th_academy_awards_after_parties_photos/beverly_johnson/oscars2.jpg

http://www.anorexics.net/images/celebs/beverly_johnson.jpg

She's 5'11, regal and elegant. A bad-ass actress...and these are relatively recent pics; she's 47 years old here.

I just want to know who else FOX was considering back in 2000 aside from Halle Berry for the role of Storm. :( The fact that they'd cast someone fairskinned and petite for this character when other actresses like this were available (and Beverly has that deep throaty voice that Storm has--I can just imagine her shrieking "The Wind Cries Storm!" LOL ) brings up the whole "one-size-fits-all" token black actress thing.

We know that Bryen Singer didn't want the character included anyways, so did he just say "Well fuggit!" and just cast the first pretty face he saw? To me, this betrays a lack of understanding for the character. I love Halle Berry, and I am looking forward to her in X3. But one look at her and it's blatantly obvious that the director/casting crew just didn't give a damn in casting Storm.


Interesting you mention the Halle Berry angle. The so called 'black' actresses presented to national audiences (for movies) are always light skinned or half white. It's like there's a code saying she has to have color but not be really 'black', just enough to seem exotic. There's still subtle typing going on out there when it comes to roles and so called 'cross over' acceptance. Personally I think the corporate heads (Ie white males predom) sell people short with this old stereotypical thinking. Conversely, you RARELY see light skinned black men or half white 'black' men portrayed as 'black' heroes, be they live action or comics. They're usually dark skinned and bald. This is rooted in the (dark/threatening light/non threatening) symbolism that has become a part of advertising culture.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Interesting you mention the Halle Berry angle. The so called 'black' actresses presented to national audiences (for movies) are always light skinned or half white. It's like there's a code saying she has to have color but not be really 'black', just enough to seem exotic. There's still subtle typing going on out there when it comes to roles and so called 'cross over' acceptance. Personally I think the corporate heads (Ie white males predom) sell people short with this old stereotypical thinking. Conversely, you RARELY see light skinned black men or half white 'black' men portrayed as 'black' heroes, be they live action or comics. They're usually dark skinned and bald. This is rooted in the (dark/threatening light/non threatening) symbolism that has become a part of advertising culture.

You raise a good point Miss Webb.

I have a feeling though that stupid "trend" might be coming to an end soon...with the victory of this young lady. She's making a connection with white audiences that has eluded even Miss Berry.

http://z.about.com/d/randb/1/0/0/3/-/-/Jennifer-Hudson.jpg

[Darthphere]

Jennifer Hudson is fat, fact.

Also her white connection comes from American Idol, as ratings and such show, is laregly a white audience.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Star power. Unfortunate that her skill doesn't actually attract an audience.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Jennifer Hudson is fat, fact.

Also her white connection comes from American Idol, as ratings and such show, is laregly a white audience.

What does her fatness have to do with anything? :confused:

And I'm sorry...but her American Idol audience would have little impact on the Academy or other critics. She's certainly not coasting on to fame on the strength of those "auditions".

[LouFerignoDemon]

You underestimate the power the idiocy of the general American populace carries. O.o

[Darthphere]

What does her fatness have to do with anything? :confused:

And I'm sorry...but her American Idol audience would have little impact on the Academy or other critics. She's certainly not coasting on to fame on the strength of those "auditions".

Yeah she is, considering, she wouldnt have gotten the role in the first place if not for Idol.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Yeah she is, considering, she wouldnt have gotten the role in the first place if not for Idol.

Um, no.

She beat out 600-plus auditioners for the role--including Fantasia Barrino who won the American Idol the same year. :whatever:

Is it possible that maybe she's just...that good as an up-and-coming actress? :o

[Darthphere]

Um, no.

She beat out 600-plus auditioners for the role--including Fantasia Barrino who won the American Idol the same year. :whatever:

Is it possible that maybe she's just...that good as an up-and-coming actress? :o

Poppycock. Its her being on Idol that even prompted her even being in the running, and Fantasia is fugly, I wouldnt put her in a movie.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Poppycock. Its her being on Idol that even prompted her even being in the running, and Fantasia is fugly, I wouldnt put her in a movie.

Whatever. Effie is supposed to fugly. The fact that Fantasia looks like a dinosaur would have been inconsequential to the role. Face it: you're hating...and I don't think Anubis is the only one smoking dat good **** right now. LOL :whatever:

[LouFerignoDemon]

Whatever. Effie is supposed to fugly. The fact that Fantasia looks like a dinosaur would have been inconsequential to the role. Face it: you're hating...and I don't think Anubis is the only one smoking dat good **** right now. LOL :whatever:

A few possibilities have arisen.

One, Fantasia is so ugly, they were afraid she'd kill ratings due to being that ugly.

Or two, the other girl gained the confidence from American Idol to actually compete, and given the fact that star power affects judgements (which is true in EVERY case. Even I am subject to it from time to time), that could have helped.

[Darthphere]

Whatever. Effie is supposed to fugly. The fact that Fantasia looks like a dinosaur would have been inconsequential to the role. Face it: you're hating...and I don't think Anubis is the only one smoking dat good **** right now. LOL :whatever:

Its not hating, its being real. If she was never on Idol, she would not have gotten the role.

[Lightning Strykez!]

A few possibilities have arisen.

One, Fantasia is so ugly, they were afraid she'd kill ratings due to being that ugly.

Looking like a Gila Monster or some winged dragon shouldn't have barred Fantasia from the opportunity. That's discrimination! :cmad: lol


Or two, the other girl gained the confidence from American Idol to actually compete, and given the fact that star power affects judgements (which is true in EVERY case. Even I am subject to it from time to time), that could have helped.

Okay. I can see where such experiences could have influenced her rise. But I don't see it as the end-all to her success, since only a small segment of the American public watch American Idol--and it's obvious that the hype on her has gone waaaaay beyond what happened to her 3 or 4 years ago. She's hot now because she's talented (in my opinion).

And I still don't see where her fatness comes into play. :o

[terry78]

Looking like a Gila Monster or some winged dragon shouldn't have barred Fantasia from the opportunity. That's discrimination! :cmad: lol




:eek: Oh no, you did'ent!

http://z.about.com/d/realitytv/1/0/q/Z/tasiabeforeandafter.jpg
It burrrrnnssss ussss....the preciousssss!

[T'Jai]

it is pretty much all buzz casting in the Holly right now but the girl actually has the skills

[Lightning Strykez!]

Its not hating, its being real. If she was never on Idol, she would not have gotten the role.

But by the same token, she could've been on Idol, gotten the role and still presented unprecedented levels of suckage or--at best--a forgettable performance (See Beyonce).

I can concede the fact that Idol may have been a stepping stone. But she's not standing on it now.

[Lightning Strykez!]

http://z.about.com/d/realitytv/1/0/q/Z/tasiabeforeandafter.jpg


http://www.californiaherps.com/lizards/images/hssustonguerbaz.jpg

:eek: Oh no, you did'ent!



Yes.

Yes I did.

[Lightning Strykez!]

it is pretty much all buzz casting in the Holly right now but the girl actually has the skills

Exactly.

It's not like the hype is unfounded or overrated...at least not yet.

[Darthphere]

Exactly.

It's not like the hype is unfounded or overrated...at least not yet.

This is me hating. Its already overrated.

[T'Jai]

Bill is a pretty damn gud director but there were a lot of egos on that set...

[Anubis]

Jennifer Hudson doesn't look all that bad. As a matter of fact she's pretty hot. Cushiony in all the right places. I'd totally do her.

But then again, I'd do Fantastia as well. I'm a sex addict.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Jennifer Hudson doesn't look all that bad. As a matter of fact she's pretty hot. Cushiony in all the right places. I'd totally do her.

But then again, I'd do Fantastia as well. I'm a sex addict.

I was with you until you mentioned Fantasia. I don't do Fraggle-Rocks. :csad: Just looking at her makes me impotent (K-Ci was clearly the ugliest one in Jodeci).

But she can sing her ass off though!:up:

[La The Darkman]

http://z.about.com/d/randb/1/0/0/3/-/-/Jennifer-Hudson.jpg

Damn what anyone says that woman is sexy as hell to me. :heart:

[terry78]

I think that fact that Jennifer Hudson always has a smile on her face is what makes her attractive. Nothing beats a girl that's happy.

[Anubis]

That killer rack don't hurt either.

[terry78]

^If you wanna get all caveman about it, sure. :o

[Anubis]

well oouga booga to you too. :o

[Tropico]

You just KNOW Capt. Caveman was getting it EVERY night.;)

[LouFerignoDemon]

^If you wanna get all caveman about it, sure. :o

You make it seem like that's crossed nobody's mind.

[terry78]

You make it seem like that's crossed nobody's mind.
I'm sure it has, but I'd like to sway from the mindset that that's all she's good for.

[Nokio]

Conversely, you RARELY see light skinned black men or half white 'black' men portrayed as 'black' heroes, be they live action or comics. They're usually dark skinned and bald. This is rooted in the (dark/threatening light/non threatening) symbolism that has become a part of advertising culture.

The Rock.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm sure it has, but I'd like to sway from the mindset that that's all she's good for.


I don't think anybody made that comment. O.o

[La The Darkman]

You make a good point and I apologize--I wasn't deliberately trying to mislead anyone (I didn't have the comic in front of me when I posted that comment, but I remembered the quote).

However, my basic point remains: T'Challa considers American Society to be substandard and rife with cultural inadequacies. IMO, it is out of character for him to subscribe to this country's slang to express his feelings about a woman he cares about. Using it trivialized his intelligence and sophistication as a Monarch...and to me it was just an obvious effort to make the comic "hip" to black readers.

Do you agree with that assessment?

I agree somewhat, but you have to take in mind that this took place in a alternate reality...T'challa was also a shameless womanizer, a killer (cut off Sabertooth's head), and was far more open about how he felt about Ororo during House of M.




I'm with you on this.

As I mentioned, I've been collecting BP for many years now. And the concept of the two of them married in of itself is great--I have zero problem with the union. It's the way that it was executed that I thought left a lot to be desired.

Here's my gripe: Other high profile character marriages (like the aforementioned Reed/Susan, Pete/Mary Jane, Scott/Emma/Jean, etc.) are given months or years to incubate so fans can actually absorb the developments at a natural pace. So why were Marvel's two highest profile black characters denied this treatment? I felt this approach reduced them to basically an arranged marriage. True, there was some tiny precedent for their relationship under Priest's run, but not nearly enough to warrant a fast-track wedding. Why Quesada & Co. couldn't give Ororo and T'Challa's situation time to breathe like everyone else's is beyond me. :csad:

I agree I would have loved to have seen a year long courtship between the two, the characters fit perfectly together, I dare anyone to read the issues Priest wrote and say otherwise. Hudlin should have built on that for about a year or so. Taking time to do this would have killed atleast some of those stupid "They're only being married because they're both black" arguments.



Agreed to an extent.

With a few exception, I've actually never really had too much problem with the way Hudlin handles T'Challa himself...I think he "gets" him. I liked the arcs involving Falcon, Luke, Blade and the "Wild Kingdom" crossover. You know what's really funny? I actually thought Hudlin wrote Storm decently during that time period. Something has happened since then...and I don't recognize her right now.

See the thing is we HAVE seen storm act in this way before...Remember when she was thinking over if she wanted to marry Forge or not, at one point she was smiling in the rain acting like a young school girl because she was about to accept a marriage proposal from the man she loved. It's no different from how she's acting now, only T'challa didn't tell her to hit the bricks and run off with some evil blue chick.

[Lightning Strykez!]

I agree somewhat, but you have to take in mind that this took place in a alternate reality...T'challa was also a shameless womanizer, a killer (cut off Sabertooth's head), and was far more open about how he felt about Ororo during House of M.

Fair enough.

However, as Hudlin continues to Americanize, Urbanize and Ghettoize T'Challa, look for him to spill that kind of "flava" again one day...and next time it will be the 616 too. ;)






I agree I would have loved to have seen a year long courtship between the two, the characters fit perfectly together, I dare anyone to read the issues Priest wrote and say otherwise. Hudlin should have built on that for about a year or so. Taking time to do this would have killed atleast some of those stupid "They're only being married because they're both black" arguments.

Eggggsactly.

I don't believe most fans had a problem with Storm marrying T'Challa (although quite a few had their hearts set on a ROLO situation with Logan), but the controversy came from the way it was handled. For most X-Men fans it was like "Who is this guy and where is he from?" And the whole "Let's get our most well-known black characters involved and engaged effective Black History Month" torqued off a lot of people (myself included).

That's like waiting until Hanukkah to marry Dr. Doom to some Jewish comic character. It was way too obvious, cliche...and well, predictably dumb.




See the thing is we HAVE seen storm act in this way before...Remember when she was thinking over if she wanted to marry Forge or not, at one point she was smiling in the rain acting like a young school girl because she was about to accept a marriage proposal from the man she loved. It's no different from how she's acting now, only T'challa didn't tell her to hit the bricks and run off with some evil blue chick.

I'm sorry, but Storm was never this sappy--even with Forge. Remember, after they returned after being marrooned for a while she kept her emotions in check--which prompted Forge to believe she had forgot about him. And even when he proposed to her, she mused over her feelings in a controled fashion. So much so that it made Forge doubt she'd even accept his proposal, which ultimately led to his hasty departure.

Interestingly enough, even Storm's best girlfriend Jean Grey was unsure of how Ororo would respond. And Jean's a telepath--one who was unable to answer Forge's queries. Why? Because Storm has always been guarded with her feelings. This current version of Storm...is somebody else who's acting off a different extreme.

[Miss Webb]

The Rock.

Yup. Half Samoan, and presented to the 'crossover' obsessives. Note how he gets a variety of roles, not just the 'urban black hero/ghetto/black comedy slot? Same old, same old.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Yup. Half Samoan, and presented to the 'crossover' obsessives. Note how he gets a variety of roles, not just the 'urban black hero/ghetto/black comedy slot? Same old, same old.

Um hmmm....

I was one of the few who was hoping he'd get cast for Superman at one time years ago. ;)

I mean, if Dean Cain could do it...:o

[HoratioRome]

I agree with you--Victor is egotistical.

But he's also sophisticated with is ego...he has a purpose...a goal that it feeds. Let us remember that Dr. Doom is one of the most intelligent men of all (MU) time--in Reed Richards' range, mind you. He's met and communicated with every intelligent being out there--from the Phoenix, to Galactus, to every alien in between. Doom has literally seen it all. Therefore he knows better than anyone that there is no scientific evidence that suggests that blacks are inferior to other human races. He knows that's not true--and to suggest he suddenly believes that stupidity is really an insult to his intelligence. :o It trivializes his greatness.




A good writer knows how to make an antagonist's villainy potent without resorting to cliched stereotypes. :whatever:

Sadly, Mr. Hudlin is not--and probably will never be--that good writer. It was blatantly obvious that he was "searching" for a way to get his readers to view Doom as T'Challa's enemy. Instead of creating some sophisticated way of causing a conflict what does he do? Go for the lowest denominator: the race card (TRANSLATION: "I really want my readers--who are mostly black--to hate Dr. Doom as my black protagonist's enemy, so I'll just make this classic villain insult most of my readers! Yeah! That'll get their goat! :rolleyes).

It's wack writing at its zenith. :cmad:

well said agreed 100%. I hated Hudlin for the get go. what a hack

[HoratioRome]

You know I think that this is endemic of a greater problem at marvel which must go all the way to the top. There have been in the last few years too much mischaracterization of characters in ways that seem to be deliberately designed to shock the readers.

I think this is an editorial and ultimately a culture that must be coming from the editor in chief, namely Mr Joe Queseda. Something is off.

In the recent blockbuster civil war storyline, many of the primary characters are unrecognizable.

Recently Gwen Stacy has become through a retcon a bedhopper and a cheat.

Crystal of the Inhumans... same thing and situation as Gwen.

The Rawhide Kid who I grew up reading was recently revealed as being Gay. This is hard to wrap your mind around as this obviously is not how the character was presented in his debut or decades of continuity.

Thor decided a while back that he should rule the world and tell men what to do, although this was possibly the one that was best explained but probably hurt that book tremendously.

Doom himself actually kidnapped and threatened the Richards Children and with intent, worse he killed his lifelong love. This to me is way out of character for Doom.

And now to hear this from Black Panther, honestly I liked the early issues when Romita Jr was doing the art and I enjoyed the Black Centric storyline and dealing with historical realities but yeah letting it drip into characteriztions that are off shows a lack of creativity.

And here people may be the heart of the problem. Maybe the "House of Ideas" has run out of ideas. If everything has already been done what is left, basically the storylines that no one would write or were unwilling to write until now.

Clearly the powers that be at marvel think that these are the only stories left to be told.

So we should prepare ourselves for the desecration of many things once thought sacred at the house of ideas.

We live in a time where this kind of story is not really very far off;

"Susan Richards pregnant with the Submariner's child"!



Nuff said.
Again well said.
not to mention The total mischaracterization of SPIDER-MAN Marvel's flagshi[ character into a third rate joke.
Turning Tony Stark into possibly Marvel's worst villain (not even Doom has done what he's doing in civil war)
the TOTAL disprespect of REED RICHARD by turning him into a groupy and follower of Iron man
and on and on.

the rule seems to be that there is no continuity, no established characterrization,.. it is rather do as you please.

and JQ has to be held responsible :cmad:

[LouFerignoDemon]

Again well said.
not to mention The total mischaracterization of SPIDER-MAN Marvel's flagshi[ character into a third rate joke.
Turning Tony Stark into possibly Marvel's worst villain (not even Doom has done what he's doing in civil war)
the TOTAL disprespect of REED RICHARD by turning him into a groupy and follower of Iron man
and on and on.

the rule seems to be that there is no continuity, no established characterrization,.. it is rather do as you please.

and JQ has to be held responsible :cmad:


Once again, plenty of people have done worse than Stark, who are being hailed as good guys.

You know, Strange and Fury just to name a couple.

[HoratioRome]

Once again, plenty of people have done worse than Stark, who are being hailed as good guys.

You know, Strange and Fury just to name a couple.


I'm sorry but when did either Strange or Fury imprison perfectly innocent people just because they didn't go along with the plan. When has either recruited supervillains to hunt down and possibly kill said innocent people who btw are not only innocent, but were willing to risk their lives to help others.
finally when did either not only imprison these selfess heroes, but gave them a life sentence in the NEGATIVE ZONE?

please enlighten me.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm sorry but when did either Strange or Fury imprison perfectly innocent people just because they didn't go along with the plan. When has either recruited supervillains to hunt down and possibly kill said innocent people who btw are not only innocent, but were willing to risk their lives to help others.
finally when did either not only imprison these selfess heroes, but gave them a life sentence in the NEGATIVE ZONE?

please enlighten me.


Woo, I just knew this would start something.

Rather than just blindly starting an argument to wreck a thread, search around for the fifty bazillion times I've made comments about this before.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Again well said.
not to mention The total mischaracterization of SPIDER-MAN Marvel's flagshi[ character into a third rate joke.
Turning Tony Stark into possibly Marvel's worst villain (not even Doom has done what he's doing in civil war)
the TOTAL disprespect of REED RICHARD by turning him into a groupy and follower of Iron man
and on and on.

the rule seems to be that there is no continuity, no established characterrization,.. it is rather do as you please.

and JQ has to be held responsible :cmad:

It's funny you mention that: I was just at the Comic shop last night and some of the guys there were saying the same thing: Reed and Tony have suddenly topped everyone's Most Hated Jerk-Face list, thanks to this whole Civil War portrayal.

I wonder if this was intentional...because I see a long road ahead in changing the reader base's perceptions of these characters now.

[Anubis]

Well, there was that time Fury shanghaied all those heroes and forced them to go fight a war in Latveria then had they're memories erased, only to bring down the combined might of hundreds of techno villains upon them for s**t they didn't even remember doing.

And Strange, well, he's been doing the shanghai deal for years.

Stark was always a douche, and he'll always be a douche. But that's neither here nor there, he's on the side of law, call him evil all you want, bring up the constitution too, fact is, he's on the side of the powers that be. And as far as they're concerned, he's in the right.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well, I think Invisible Woman said it best recently, where she likened what they're doing to the Nazi concentration camps.

Obviously T'Challa doesn't agree with it, and Wakanda is basically a neutral. His (and Storm's) recent actions in the U.S. though have clearly put them on Tony's bad side.

[Anubis]

I'd say it's more like what they're doing in Gitmo, or the Japanese Internment camps of WWII. They aren't exactly putting guys in ovens and gassing them in the shower. That's an over reaction. But it ain't exactly a bed and breakfast either.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Erm. I dunno....I can see your point...but I also think Tony and Reed's thinking are hypocritical and contradictory. Especially Tony--who is not a mutant or specifically gifted. It's easy for Rich White Boy to go along with a discriminatory government.

Ditto for Richards. The entire principle is wrong IMO. But being white and priveleged they're not going to see it from the same perspective as a T'Challa or a Storm...or any other mutant/gifted hero that has dealt with race and bigoted prejudice.

[Darthphere]

I've said it a million times, the only out of character portrayal is that of Reed, and even thats iffy, considering the Wacky FF thread. The unmasking IMO is in character. It exemplifies that with great power....blah blah blah.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Erm. I dunno....I can see your point...but I also think Tony and Reed's thinking are hypocritical and contradictory. Especially Tony--who is not a mutant or specifically gifted. It's easy for Rich White Boy to go along with a discriminatory government.

Ditto for Richards. The entire principle is wrong IMO. But being white and priveleged they're not going to see it from the same perspective as a T'Challa or a Storm...or any other mutant/gifted hero that has dealt with race and bigoted prejudice.

How is it hypocritical or contradictory?

Tony is superpowered. And definitely isn't the, "Since I'm rich, I'll agree with the government" type. He's more of the "Since I'm rich, I can do what I want, when I want, who I want!" type.

However, I doubt them being white and rich really gives them such a different perspective, as much as who they are, and how they think based not on their financial and color backgrounds, but high levels of genius.

And as for T'Challa? His skin color matters not, his perspective would be WAAAY more different than Tony's based on the fact T'Challa is a king. If anything, he should view the government as something possibly trying to help the people.

[Lightning Strykez!]

How is it hypocritical or contradictory?

Tony is superpowered. And definitely isn't the, "Since I'm rich, I'll agree with the government" type. He's more of the "Since I'm rich, I can do what I want, when I want, who I want!" type.

However, I doubt them being white and rich really gives them such a different perspective, as much as who they are, and how they think based not on their financial and color backgrounds, but high levels of genius.

And as for T'Challa? His skin color matters not, his perspective would be WAAAY more different than Tony's based on the fact T'Challa is a king. If anything, he should view the government as something possibly trying to help the people.


It's hypocritical in that they are supporting and empowering the very problem that so many of their peers in the superhero community have faced all their lives. They can't relate to it, nor the impact it is having on others. It's the principle that's wrong...and they're going at great lengths--even deaths--to prove it's validity.

They're like uber-rich Republicans...but even more out of touch.

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's hypocritical in that they are supporting and empowering the very problem that so many of their peers in the superhero community have faced all their lives. They can't relate to it, nor the impact it is having on others. It's the principle that's wrong...and they're going at great lengths--even deaths--to prove it's validity.

They're like uber-rich Republicans...but even more out of touch.

And that problem is?

[Lightning Strykez!]

And that problem is?

You must be Republican. :p LOL

[LouFerignoDemon]

You must be Republican. :p LOL

I'm not even from America. But the question is the most important point. We can feel something's wrong, we can point fingers, but the problem must be defined.

[spideyboy_1111]

I've said it a million times, the only out of character portrayal is that of Reed, and even thats iffy, considering the Wacky FF thread. The unmasking IMO is in character. It exemplifies that with great power....blah blah blah.

i dunno.. i thought the recent fan 4 issue put a good basis to his reasoning.. a mathmatical one..

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm not even from America. But the question is the most important point. We can feel something's wrong, we can point fingers, but the problem must be defined.

Discrimination and prejudice based on being "different".

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's not because they are different.

If it were because they are different, and that alone is the reason, then I'd agree. But such is not the case.

[Darthphere]

i dunno.. i thought the recent fan 4 issue put a good basis to his reasoning.. a mathmatical one..

As did I, but other than that, its been pretty questionable.

[Darthphere]

By the way, wheres the roundtable?

[spideyboy_1111]

As did I, but other than that, its been pretty questionable.

well if you relate it all back to him fearing the greater evil... and he sees civil war as the lesser one... it kidna makes sense.. in a way it's kinda interesting... Reed loves discovering the unknown.. but at the same time (esp in this case) it's his greatest fear

[Lightning Strykez!]

By the way, wheres the roundtable?

On your face! :cmad:

[Lightning Strykez!]

It's not because they are different.

If it were because they are different, and that alone is the reason, then I'd agree. But such is not the case.

Well, I disagree with that assessment, but that's fine. We're all entitled to our own interpretations of this war.

[Darthphere]

well if you relate it all back to him fearing the greater evil... and he sees civil war as the lesser one... it kidna makes sense.. in a way it's kinda interesting... Reed loves discovering the unknown.. but at the same time (esp in this case) it's his greatest fear

The thing you have to realize is, that reasoning was given after the fact, after Reed had presented at least a dozen other reasons.

[spideyboy_1111]

Well, I disagree with that assessment, but that's fine. We're all entitled to our own interpretations of this war.

sorry, but i don't see how this war could be based off of any form of discrimination... its based off rules, safety and regulation.. nothing more... though certain events.. might and single person actions have lead to some discrimatory events (see black panther) other then that.. the only discriminatory thing ive seen is just the general public bashing heroes..

[spideyboy_1111]

The thing you have to realize is, that reasoning was given after the fact, after Reed had presented at least a dozen other reasons.

o i know, but i don't dwell on the past... everyone has the ability in them to "act out of character" in extreme times... we just didn't have a valid reason for reed to be doing so until now.. and now in my book, its fixed and explained.. so i'm content, if only they could do the same for the real reason gwen slept with norman...

[Lightning Strykez!]

sorry, but i don't see how this war could be based off of any form of discrimination... its based off rules, safety and regulation.. nothing more... though certain events.. might and single person actions have lead to some discrimatory events (see black panther) other then that.. the only discriminatory thing ive seen is just the general public bashing heroes..

But the way it's being handled (Translation: Into the Neg. Zone you go!) can be interpreted that way, hence Invisible Woman's Nazi concentration camp-application. Basically, whether you're innocent or not you have to go through a process because you're different than the mainstream. That is classified as discrimation, the "safety" issues are inconsequential. And that's Cap's gripe with it--such regulation should have no place in a democratic society.

Hell, Hitler thought he was making the world safer too.:whatever:

[spideyboy_1111]

But the way it's being handled (Translation: Into the Neg. Zone you go!) can be interpreted that way, hence Invisible Woman's Nazi concentration camp-application. Basically, whether you're innocent or not you have to go through a process because you're different than the mainstream. That is classified as discrimation, the "safety" issues are inconsequential. And that's Cap's gripe with it--such regulation should have no place in a democratic society.

Hell, Hitler thought he was making the world safer too.:whatever:

but that treatment is being held for those who do not register... because it's illegal for them to do so... now the hunting down is a very discriminitive action.. problem is if its not the case of whats law and whats not... what are they being descriminitive against? the same exact thing they are? sure there could be one person possibly stark having a discriminative purpose.. but you can't blame the war on a single discrimintive action unless its against superhearoes as a whole.

[La The Darkman]

o i know, but i don't dwell on the past... everyone has the ability in them to "act out of character" in extreme times... we just didn't have a valid reason for reed to be doing so until now.. and now in my book, its fixed and explained.....

Yeah McDuffie did a great job of explaining Reed's reasons for doing what he's doing. All the other times Reed gave his "reasons" can be chalked up to him just lying because that formula of his is more effective and accurate when few people as possible know about it.

[Inhuman63]

But by the same token, she could've been on Idol, gotten the role and still presented unprecedented levels of suckage or--at best--a forgettable performance (See Beyonce).

Just adding my 2 cents to this particular convo even though I know it's off topic. Beyonce did an okay job with what she was given. The role of Deena Jones is just poorly written with no real emotional arc in it. The meat and potatos of Dreamgirls is Effie White and James Thunder Early. If the writers and/or producers would have shown Deena as more than just a showpiece and someone with her own story to tell, then I would have considered Dreamgirls a modern masterpiece. Right now, I just think of it as being a good movie but one that is almost a carbon copy of the theatrical production. BTW, the original Effie (Jennifer Holiday) fought to ensure that her character was going to have a good arc and not just be the bitter ex-lead singer that was never seen in the second act.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Just adding my 2 cents to this particular convo even though I know it's off topic. Beyonce did an okay job with what she was given. The role of Deena Jones is just poorly written with no real emotional arc in it. The meat and potatos of Dreamgirls is Effie White and James Thunder Early. If the writers and/or producers would have shown Deena as more than just a showpiece and someone with her own story to tell, then I would have considered Dreamgirls a modern masterpiece. Right now, I just think of it as being a good movie but one that is almost a carbon copy of the theatrical production. BTW, the original Effie (Jennifer Holiday) fought to ensure that her character was going to have a good arc and not just be the bitter ex-lead singer that was never seen in the second act.


Good point, but Beyonce has never "blown me away" with her acting prowess. She brags that she has the talent, but I have yet to see serious confirmation of it. She played the same person she plays in all of her firms...herself (especially in this film, which has striking similarities to how Matthew treated Latavia and Letoya years ago).

Speaking of Mr. Knowles, I've read that he's none too pleased about the way Jennifer has outshined his Precious. But considering the dirt he's done, I guess payback (and karma by default) is a beeya.

I also find it funny that Jennifer Hudson:

*Was booted off American Idol in favor of talentless hack from Hawaii

*Is playing a character who rises above a girl group who kicks her out

*Has unwittingly outshined the top lead actress who--in real life--has led a group which booted off members at the request of her Matthew "Thunder" Knowles daddy

And the best part of this metaphorical parrallel is that this former American Idol reject in the running for a fricken Oscar....

Heh. Whew. :p

[Darthphere]

Good point, but Beyonce has never "blown me away"

We all can't be that lucky.:o

[spideyboy_1111]

Good point, but Beyonce has never "blown me away" with her acting prowess. She brags that she has the talent, but I have yet to see serious confirmation of it. She played the same person she plays in all of her firms...herself (especially in this film, which has striking similarities to how Matthew treated Latavia and Letoya years ago).

Speaking of Mr. Knowles, I've read that he's none too pleased about the way Jennifer has outshined his Precious. But considering the dirt he's done, I guess payback (and karma by default) is a beeya.

I also find it funny that Jennifer Hudson:

*Was booted off American Idol in favor of talentless hack from Hawaii

*Is playing a character who rises above a girl group who kicks her out

*Has unwittingly outshined the top lead actress who--in real life--has led a group which booted off members at the request of her Matthew "Thunder" Knowles daddy

And the best part of this metaphorical parrallel is that this former American Idol reject in the running for a fricken Oscar....

Heh. Whew. :p

i think this is the very reason people are in love with her.. she's living the appitimy of the american dream

[Lightning Strykez!]

We all can't be that lucky.:o

Jay-Z has barred me from B.

But I can change your luck though. ;)

[spideyboy_1111]

personally i dont see why a woman who has money and doesnt want it... would want to be with Jay-Z... hes a googley eyed fugly man

[Lightning Strykez!]

personally i dont see why a woman who has money and doesnt want it... would want to be with Jay-Z... hes a googley eyed fugly man

He has full lips. :o

Can you imagine how great he must cool her...soup?

[Darthphere]

He has full lips. :o

Can you imagine how great he must cool her...soup?

Snap...

[Lightning Strykez!]

http://myspace-180.vo.llnwd.net/01178/08/12/1178222180_l.gif

Ahem. :o

Attack of the Soup-Coolahs!!

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well, I disagree with that assessment, but that's fine. We're all entitled to our own interpretations of this war.

Well, that's fine to disagree, and I love when people have good reasons to disagree.

I just wish to know why you feel that way.

[Arkady Rossovich]

That image is degrading..but sadly..its true.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Which image?

[La The Darkman]

Which image?

I think he means the one of Camel joe up there. :woot:

[Lightning Strykez!]

I think he means the one of Camel joe up there. :woot:

*snicker*

:D

He does look kinda like one, doesn't he....

[Shockdingo]

Good point, but Beyonce has never "blown me away" with her acting prowess. She brags that she has the talent, but I have yet to see serious confirmation of it. She played the same person she plays in all of her firms...herself (especially in this film, which has striking similarities to how Matthew treated Latavia and Letoya years ago).

Speaking of Mr. Knowles, I've read that he's none too pleased about the way Jennifer has outshined his Precious. But considering the dirt he's done, I guess payback (and karma by default) is a beeya.

I also find it funny that Jennifer Hudson:

*Was booted off American Idol in favor of talentless hack from Hawaii

*Is playing a character who rises above a girl group who kicks her out

*Has unwittingly outshined the top lead actress who--in real life--has led a group which booted off members at the request of her Matthew "Thunder" Knowles daddy

And the best part of this metaphorical parrallel is that this former American Idol reject in the running for a fricken Oscar....

Heh. Whew. :p

Hehe that's what I find incredibly awesome about the Hudson saga :woot: I mean dude, who else can steam role over Beyonce like that, and to add to the fact that she's new at all this. She was off idol and she has not acted on the big or small screen before. I don't dislike Beyonce, but I just don't get why she keeps getting movie roles :dry:

[Anubis]

Cuz she's hot, and her star power makes SOME people go see movies that they otherwise wouldn't. Though I still haven't seen Dream Girls, I f**king hate Musicals. :o

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah, if you call THAT hot. She doesn't conform to the narrow view of hot. :o

[Eros]

Cuz she's hot, and her star power makes SOME people go see movies that they otherwise wouldn't. Though I still haven't seen Dream Girls, I f**king hate Musicals. :o


Plus Beyonces a great singar and performer. Acting is a hobby for her, and she treats it as such.

[La The Darkman]

Cuz she's hot, and her star power makes SOME people go see movies that they otherwise wouldn't. Though I still haven't seen Dream Girls, I f**king hate Musicals. :o

She's not that hot to me anymore...She needs to eat a couple more sammichs or something. :csad:

[Eros]

She's not that hot to me anymore...She needs to eat a couple more sammichs or something. :csad:
:huh: your jokeing right?

[La The Darkman]

:huh: your jokeing right?

No......I like women with a decent amount of meat on their bones.....She like like 20 lbs or something for that role in Dreamgirls and she kept it off. :csad:

[Lightning Strykez!]

Beyonce is a fine singer. But she is definitely overrated.

And to be perfectly honest (and I'm not trying to hate, just participate)...she's not that beautiful. Sure she's hyped as this Uber-Phine mami, but she's nothing I can't readily find in a club holding up the wall. :cool:

[LouFerignoDemon]

Beyonce is a fine singer. But she is definitely overrated.

And to be perfectly honest (and I'm not trying to hate, just participate)...she's not that beautiful. Sure she's hyped as this Uber-Phine mami, but she's nothing I can't readily find in a club holding up the wall. :cool:

Actually, Beyonce is somewhat plain.

[Eros]

Beyonce is a fine singer. But she is definitely overrated.

And to be perfectly honest (and I'm not trying to hate, just participate)...she's not that beautiful. Sure she's hyped as this Uber-Phine mami, but she's nothing I can't readily find in a club holding up the wall. :cool:


I don't believe you at all.

[Eros]

Actually, Beyonce is somewhat plain.


To another straight woman im sure she is.

[La The Darkman]

Actually, Beyonce is somewhat plain.

I'm wouldn't say she's plain, she's a beautiful woman, but if you take away all the make up and photoshopping she'd just be another fine around the way girl. :oldrazz:

[ATMA Weapon]

Where's the roundtable? All I see are talks about plain jane Bouncy. Best looking girl in Destiny's child was the one with the bangs from years ago when there were 4 members.

What are your thoughts about Punisher's Barracuda?
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=6024 He's as blatant a stereotype as you can get. I haven't read the issue, but I don't think getting eaten by a shark would improve his personality.

[LouFerignoDemon]

To another straight woman im sure she is.

Good thing I'm a bisexual to make the judgement then.

I'm wouldn't say she's plain, she's a beautiful woman, but if you take away all the make up and photoshopping she'd just be another fine around the way girl. :oldrazz:

I mean plain as in...she's nothing really special. Her body's no better than most, and her face is nothing to write home about.

Just...I guess above average, but not dynamite.

[Eros]

Good thing I'm a bisexual to make the judgement then.



I mean plain as in...she's nothing really special. Her body's no better than most, and her face is nothing to write home about.

Just...I guess above average, but not dynamite.


Well I have to respectfully disagree with you on all points.

[Anubis]

Where's the roundtable? All I see are talks about plain jane Bouncy. Best looking girl in Destiny's child was the one with the bangs from years ago when there were 4 members.

What are your thoughts about Punisher's Barracuda?
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=6024 He's as blatant a stereotype as you can get. I haven't read the issue, but I don't think getting eaten by a shark would improve his personality.


I read his apperance in Max Punisher. He really messed Frank up in that arc. Didn't enjoy him enough as a character to bother getting the mini. I wouldn't really call him a stereotype. He may look like a big dumb thug n***a, but he's quite capable. At least he seemed that way in his debute in Punisher. He's just your avarage sadistic madman really.

[Dr.Doom]

Dr Doom owes his life to a black man. Why would he hate them?

[Anubis]

Same reason he hates everybody else i'd suppose.

[Darthphere]

They have better skin.

[Anubis]

Either that or penis envy.

[Shockdingo]

About barracuda: I'm kinda so-so about him. At times I felt like he was too sterotypical, but on the other hand I saw him as really credible threat and felt somewhat like the russian. I did get tired of all the profanity he was spewing out after a while, it just felt forced. Either way I don't understand why he got a mini, I didn't realize he was so popular.

Why Doom would hate black dudes? Well better rhythm, you ever try to dance in heavy clunky armor? ;)

[Dr.Doom]

Actually, Doom is a master at the "Robot"

[deemar325]

What?? Beyonce not fine??!

You guys suck!

[deemar325]

Where's the roundtable? All I see are talks about plain jane Bouncy. Best looking girl in Destiny's child was the one with the bangs from years ago when there were 4 members.

What are your thoughts about Punisher's Barracuda?
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=6024 He's as blatant a stereotype as you can get. I haven't read the issue, but I don't think getting eaten by a shark would improve his personality.

As far as Barracuda, being a blatant stereotype, I'm not really offended by the character at all. Hell if anything he's pretty cool, yeah he's cruel and brutal, but I know cats like that in real life. Not too mention he's not just a brainless thug, this guy took on the Punisher and gave Frank a true asswhoopin'. I think he has some staying power kinda like Jigsaw.

[LouFerignoDemon]

What?? Beyonce not fine??!

You guys suck!

You only wish I did. :o


Err... :woot:

[deemar325]

You only wish I did. :o


Err... :woot:



Uh...:o man...uh...wha..? I....

[Lightning Strykez!]

Either that or penis envy.

Oh no doubt. He did say we were superior physical specimens. :whatever:


What?? Beyonce not fine??!

No one is saying she's not attractive. I don't even think anyone's saying she's not above average. But I am saying she's not all that. She's definitely overrated. In other words, she is nowhere near the beauty ranks of a Halle Berry, Salma Hayek, etc.

But I will say this: B does not strike me as a shallow person. I don't think she even considers herself to be all that beautiful. Think about all the peeps that must be crowding her space--no doubt better looking mugs than her soup-cooling lover. That shows she's looking beyond the physical to me.

Because Sean Carter--though talented as hell--is ooogly as ****. :o

[Lightning Strykez!]

HandOfFate found these over at Newsrama....new panels from McDuffy's take on Fantastic Four featuring Storm and T'Challa....

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF35art/FF_544_page_12.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF35art/FF_544_page_13.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF35art/FF_544_page_18.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF35art/FF_544_page_19.jpg

Are they encountering the Watcher? Not sure yet who the artist is, but the work doesn't seem half bad.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Also, looks like Storm is returning to the X-Men for some action outside of Wakanda....

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays35.html

[Darthphere]

Thats Paul Pelletier. And I for one I'm looking forward to McDuffie on The World's Greatest Comic Magazine.

[Anubis]

Pelletier's channeling some Alan Davis action over here. This is looking good.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Agreed. I dunno about you guys...but artwork plays a HUGE role in whether I'll buy a book or not--even if it's about my favorite characters. If the panels look like indestinquishable crapola I'm not buying it.

[Darthphere]

Agreed. I dunno about you guys...but artwork plays a HUGE role in whether I'll buy a book or not--even if it's about my favorite characters. If the panels look like indestinquishable crapola I'm not buying it.

I'm more of a writing guy myself. I'd be willing to put up with bad art if the writing is excellent, of course exceptions apply.

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm more of a writing guy myself. I'd be willing to put up with bad art if the writing is excellent, of course exceptions apply.

I feel ya. And technically I guess writing ranks highest...but I find myself thumbing through books more lately, and putting them back on the shelf because they look...well, bad. :csad:

Unless you have Black Panther...where you have bad writing AND bad art direction. LOL :oldrazz: (just messing with ya Anubis)

[Darthphere]

I feel ya. And technically I guess writing ranks highest...but I find myself thumbing through books more lately, and putting them back on the shelf because they look...well, bad. :csad:

Unless you have Black Panther...where you have bad writing AND bad art direction. LOL :oldrazz: (just messing with ya Anubis)

Yeah, I've noticed that the art on BP has gotten progressively worse.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well hopefully the storyline will get better. Isn't Storm supposed to fight Clor in the next issue?

[Kitsune]

Well hopefully the storyline will get better. Isn't Storm supposed to fight Clor in the next issue?

I think so, I for one am hoping she wins. Someone needs to teach Tony and Reed a lesson.

[lowly marvelite]

How many comic book writers are black or other than white? Probably not many...Do you ever remeber Doug Williams (black-quarterbacked the Redskins over the Broncos in '88(?)) saying "I'm going to Disneyland?". Of course not. You will never see a black hero win a popularity contest in the comics community or see one portrayed as the most powerful? Did you see the movie crash? Black characters are too often written by white writers that believe black heros should be portrayed a certain way...more specifically, what is considered "black" is a matter of white perception...

[Darthphere]

How many comic book writers are black or other than white? Probably not many...Do you ever remeber Doug Williams (black-quarterbacked the Redskins over the Broncos in '88(?)) saying "I'm going to Disneyland?". Of course not. You will never see a black hero win a popularity contest in the comics community or see one portrayed as the most powerful? Did you see the movie crash? Black characters are too often written by white writers that believe black heros should be portrayed a certain way...more specifically, what is considered "black" is a matter of white perception...

And your point is?

[Anubis]

....right....

Well, at least you're talking about something other than Superman.

[Darthphere]

Well lets put things into perspective. How many hispanic comic book writers are there? How many hispanic characters are there? How many hispanic characters have name recognition?

[Eros]

Isn't Joe Q Hispanic?

[Darthphere]

Isn't Joe Q Hispanic?

Yeah, and....?

[Anubis]

How many Native American writers are there? How many Native American comic characters are there? How many Native American characters have name recogniton?

0
27
1 (2 if you're Canadian.)

[Darthphere]

How many Native American writers are there? How many Native American comic characters are there? How many Native American characters have name recogniton?

42
27
1 (2 if you're Canadian.)

How many Asian comic book writers are there? How many asian comic book characters are there? How many asian characters have name recognition?

[Anubis]

15
126
0

[Darthphere]

I find it funny though, there's a lot more ethnic variety when it comes to the art department.

[Eros]

Yeah, and....?


Hes the editor of a major comic book company, thats a big step IMO.

[Darthphere]

Hes the editor of a major comic book company, thats a big step IMO.

Your opinion is irrelevant. And when you get down to it, its only one dude. And the biggest contribution to hispanic comic book characters is Arana.

[Anubis]

I find it funny though, there's a lot more ethnic variety when it comes to the art department.


I know, you got Jim Lee, Frank Cho, the Luna Brothers, JRSR and JRJR, tons of em, and yet, as far as characters representing their various races, they haven't really created any. Go figure.

[Eros]

Your opinion is irrelevant. And when you get down to it, its only one dude. And the biggest contribution to hispanic comic book characters is Arana.

Arana? I feel bad for hispanic comic book readers, if Arana is your savior.:o

[Darthphere]

Arana? I feel bad for hispanic comic book readers, if Arana is your savior.:o

We have the new Blue Beetle too, lots of bug characters, and Kyle Rayner whenever someone remembers he's part hispanic.

[Anubis]

He's a quarter Jewish too.

[lowly marvelite]

My point is, while some of the black characters in the Marvel universe aren't bad (some, quite original), they will never take center stage like their white counterparts...And your point is?

[lowly marvelite]

Oh, I thougt this particular thread was addressing Black Superhero in comics. Did I stray to the Asian thread?How many Asian comic book writers are there? How many asian comic book characters are there? How many asian characters have name recognition?

[spideyboy_1111]

i think people are fine with races in comics now.... i don't like to think it's really an issue.. what the problem is, isnt accepting... its the fact that you can't have EVERY hero popular at the same time.. and certain heroes ... the main stream classic loves... are ALWAYS going to be popular... yes most are white... but thats because there very old characters... who have stood the test of time. it's just a matter of making the ones we have more prominant... Storm i'd have to say is indeed the most popular black super hero... hands down. theres no problem with her... people like luke cage, black panther, falcon, and goliath have risen... and i'm seeing them more in comics (mainly due to cross overs) i also love love love, Misty knight and the new hispanic super bad-girl hero... trantula shes awsome

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well lets put things into perspective. How many hispanic comic book writers are there? How many hispanic characters are there? How many hispanic characters have name recognition?

Two words: George Perez. :ww:

:up:

[terry78]

My issue is that anytime a non-white character is introduced, some immediately dismiss is as pandering or just an attempt to be p.c. Yes, that does happen, but I don't see any problem with creating characters that look like that black/asian/mexican kid that's into comics.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Oh, I thougt this particular thread was addressing Black Superhero in comics. Did I stray to the Asian thread?

No, you're fine...the thread is dedicated to Black Heroes in particular, but we've been discussing all minorities, including gay characters. So Asians need apply. ;)

I think so, I for one am hoping she wins. Someone needs to teach Tony and Reed a lesson.

I hope she does too, but I'm not sure that's possible. I mean, a battle between Storm and Thor has been begged for by fans for decades but this is Storm versus a clone...and one without ethics at that (and no, I don't trust Reed's "improvements").

Do you think she really has a chance to take a God down?

[Lightning Strykez!]

My issue is that anytime a non-white character is introduced, some immediately dismiss is as pandering or just an attempt to be p.c.

That's because often it's just one minority character sprinkled onto an all-white ensemble. If writers and artists were to truly make these teams mixed (and I don't mean "Nightcrawler-blue"), I think some readers would eventually toss the race card altogether. It would be like, "Oh, they're here to stay I guess."

X-Men used to be that way...but I can't think of any black characters that have a mainstay presence on any of the three teams right now, can you? Didn't Lucas leave for space?

[Anubis]

No, you're fine...the thread is dedicated to Black Heroes in particular, but we've been discussing all minorities, including gay characters. So Asians need apply. ;)



I hope she does too, but I'm not sure that's possible. I mean, a battle between Storm and Thor has been begged for by fans for decades but this is Storm versus a clone...and one without ethics at that (and no, I don't trust Reed's "improvements").

Do you think she really has a chance to take a God down?

Like being a God means a hill of beans in comics. And even then, we're talking about mostly machine with cloned Thunder God parts. I think she has as good a chance of taking him as any.

[Anubis]

That's because often it's just one minority character sprinkled onto an all-white ensemble. If writers and artists were to truly make these teams mixed (and I don't mean "Nightcrawler-blue"), I think some readers would eventually toss the race card altogether. It would be like, "Oh, they're here to stay I guess."

X-Men used to be that way...but I can't think of any black characters that have a mainstay presence on any of the three teams right now, can you? Didn't Lucas leave for space?


He joined the Pro Reg side.

[RskimB]

Who are some of the major black and minority supervillains?

[deemar325]

Moses Magnum

Apocalypse

Tombstone

are a few.

[Anubis]

Apocalypse. That's about it for Major. You got Moses Magnum (Who could be considered major in terms of the comics.) umm, some Serpent Society members. Thunderball. Shaman. that's all I got right now.

[deemar325]

I think Killer Croc from DC is retroactively Black now.

[Anubis]

Where did you hear that?

[spideyboy_1111]

is the new "old" x-men character recently retconed "darwin" black? hes a disfigured mutant.. but he kinda has some features... and hes pretty kick ass...

[RskimB]

found a list all the almight wiki, its only black villains though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_supervillains

DC Comics

* Black Manta
* Black Mass
* Black Spider
* Brick
* Catwoman (in Batman TV series, Season 3)
* Crowbar
* Cyborgirl
* Fatality
* Flare (Fatal Five)
* Holocaust/Pyre (DC/Milestone)
* Houngan (Brotherhood of Evil)
* Killer Croc
* Maitresse (enemy of Sovereign Seven)
* Peek-a-Boo
* Skorpio (enemy of Steel)
* Tally Man (OYL)
* Tobias Whale

[edit] Image Comics

* Angstrom Levy

[edit] Marvel Comics

* Achebe (Black Panther villain)
* Apocalypse (comics)
* Aries
* Bedlam III (Member of the Exemplars.)
* Bushmaster
* Cardiac
* Cardinal
* Chronok
* Coldfire
* Comanche (Power Man (Cage) foe, partner of Shades)
* Condor(Nova (Richard Rider) foe)
* Cottonmouth
* Crimson Commando
* Daddy Long Legs
* Darkoth
* Foxfire (comics)
* Hairbag
* Hardcore (Luke Cage villain)
* Impala (villainous member of Bad Girls, Inc.)
* Joanna Cargill
* Eric Killmonger (Black Panther villain)
* Kingpin (in Daredevil film)
* Locus
* Man-Ape (Black Panther villain)
* John M'Butu (enemy of the reimagined Squadron Supreme)
* Manslaughter
* Midnight's Fire
* Moses Magnum (Black Panther villain)
* Mr. Fish
* Nekra
* N'Kama (A Zulu Warrior hired by Damon Dran to capture the Black Widow)
* Powerhouse
* Puff Adder
* Rock Python
* Shades (Power Man (Cage) foe,partner of Comanche)
* Sombre (Black Panther villain)
* Tempo
* The Advisor
* Thunderball
* Tombstone
* Vermin
* Alex Wilder
* Catherine Wilder
* Geoffrey Wilder

[Lightning Strykez!]

RskimB...danke.

The sad thing is, I don't know who half of those characters are. This list must go back all the way to the 70s?

[RskimB]

RskimB...danke.

The sad thing is, I don't know who half of those characters are. This list must go back all the way to the 70s?

yea i bet more than half these guys haven't seen daylight in years

[spideyboy_1111]

RskimB...danke.

The sad thing is, I don't know who half of those characters are. This list must go back all the way to the 70s?

well the wilders are from runaways...

but damn.... cotton mouth? lol thats as bad as (to me) rawhide kid being gay

[RskimB]

well the wilders are from runaways...

but damn.... cotton mouth? lol thats as bad as (to me) rawhide kid being gay

I loved Alex before his betrayal :csad:

[Anubis]

is the new "old" x-men character recently retconed "darwin" black? hes a disfigured mutant.. but he kinda has some features... and hes pretty kick ass...


Yeah, he's black.

[spideyboy_1111]

I loved Alex before his betrayal :csad:

i need to buy volume 1...

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, he's black.

well hes pretty kick ass... the ultimate mutant of evolution... i don't think anything can kill him

[Lightning Strykez!]

well the wilders are from runaways...

but damn.... cotton mouth? lol thats as bad as (to me) rawhide kid being gay


I'm still lost on the Rawhide deal...except the ellusion to bareback sex. But Cottonmouth? I totally get that one. LOL :p

http://www.geocities.com/shazazm1/AA_Fig_Cotton_Mouth.jpg

Wassup with the wack costume? :whatever:

[Tropico]

Is Tombstone the pale white guy that has rock hard skin? If I'm remembering him correctly (from when he fought Darkhawk) it's incredibly ironic that he has the color he has. I'm not sure if Tobias Whale was like that, too. I'm pretty sure there was one Black Lightning kingpin like villain that was, like, bone white.:wow:

[terry78]

Cottonmouth, Man-Ape, Bushmaster, Peek-A-Boo. These names. I won't jump the gun about a tad stereotypical, but come on.

[Anubis]

I dated an Albino once.

[Tropico]

Who are some of the major black and minority supervillains?

The Mandarin was one of Iron Man's major villains and he was Asian, I think his son is making a comeback in future months.

Clones. Clones are always major supervillains. I feel sorry for clones, they get a bad rap most of the time.:(

[RskimB]

Cottonmouth, Man-Ape, Bushmaster, Peek-A-Boo. These names. I won't jump the gun about a tad stereotypical, but come on.

Yea I noticed the same thing but they originated from a less PC era though.

[Anubis]

Not Peek-A-Boo. Goeff Johns created her like four or five years ago.

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm still lost on the Rawhide deal...except the ellusion to bareback sex. But Cottonmouth? I totally get that one. LOL :p

http://www.geocities.com/shazazm1/AA_Fig_Cotton_Mouth.jpg

Wassup with the wack costume? :whatever:

to be honest... rawhide doesnt make me think of bareback sex at first... but been screwed so much that your ass is raw from it... :(

[Lightning Strykez!]

to be honest... rawhide doesnt make me think of bareback sex at first... but been screwed so much that your ass is raw from it... :(

Ahhh...I see your point now. That would make for a raw hide I guess. :csad:


Cottonmouth, Man-Ape, Bushmaster, Peek-A-Boo. These names. I won't jump the gun about a tad stereotypical, but come on.

Agreed. Those are...questionable choices indeed....

[spideyboy_1111]

Ahhh...I see your point now. That would make for a raw hide I guess. :csad:


mmmhmmm and with his flurty/cocky stance on that cover.... its like hes just begging for it :(

[Lightning Strykez!]

Who would you guys rank as the Top 5 most popular Black characters? I'm thinking about doing a related report on this for class....share your numbers with me and why you rank them so.

[terry78]

http://www.blacksuperhero.com/

Why Don't "Black Books" Sell?

By Alan Donald
Print This Item

“Why aren't there more mainstream titles that feature minority characters in prominent roles, and why don't "black books" sell??”

Bill Rosemann: "A tough but necessary question. Is it because most comic book writers are white males, often 'write what they know', and so they choose to make their protagonists white males like themselves? Is it because the characters that are popular today and star in the most books (i.e. the superheroes that have been around since the 50s and 60s) just happen to be great characters, no matter what the skin color is beneath their masks? Obviously, companies would love to publish series with minority main protagonists (i.e. DC's Steel and Milestone line, Marvel's Black Panther and The Crew), but time and again, readership hasn't been enough to keep them going. Basically, I don't have an easy answer...but if readers want to try a book with a black protagonist--that also generates plenty of great reviews--then I humbly suggest they give Negation a try! No matter what his race happens to be, Obregon Kaine is just a cool character, and ultimately that's what people want to read about."


Alan Grant: “Most comic heroes are minority characters. Batman is in a minority of guys whose parents were murdered before their eyes. Superman is in a minority of babies saved from exploding planets. Lobo is in a minority of maniacs who destroyed their own world. Judge Dredd is in a minority of people dedicated to justice.

I've no idea why "black books" don't sell. I've heard uncorroborated reports that DC's "black" line of the 90s folded as much because of editorial profligacy as disappointing sales. I'm pretty sure "black books" sell okay in Africa (Brian Bolland and Dave Gibbons began their careers working on Power Man for--I think--a Nigerian publisher).”


Terry Moore: “I can't answer that question, but I've also noticed most comic shops are owned by white people and comic book conventions attendees are predominantly white. There's a nice ethnic mix sure, but everywhere I go it's mostly white. I don't know about you, but when I'm in a room full of white people now it gives me the creeps... makes me feel like I'm at a Klan meeting or something. It's just wrong, y'know? It's not reality. So why doesn't Strangers In Paradise have more African-Americans in the cast? Because most of the book is a satirical attack on conservative America from within the ranks. I think the barbs sting more if they come from within the ranks and not across race lines.”


Professor William H. Foster III, Comic Book Historian: “’Why aren't there more mainstream titles that feature minority characters in prominent roles, and why don't "black books" sell?’

Actually these are two different questions so let me try to answer them one at a time, and as succinctly as possible.

The first questions asks why aren't there more... And as a comic book historian who specializes in the image of African American in comics, my next question is "More than what?"

What would be the magical number of people of color appearing in mainstream books to be properly "visible" or "enough"? I suppose it depends on your point of view. For comic book readers who have always seen some characters of colors in their reading, and for comic fans from the Silver and Bronze ages of comics, the answers are going to be totally different.

I have a very long view, and look at how much things have changed since the beginning of comics to the present day. With that view, the number of characters of color in comics is very large, very diverse and still increasing.

The problem sometimes appears to be what kind of characters have been presented in the past. If people of a particular race or ethnicity are all represented as one-dimensional stereotypes, that's a real problem. If all women are represented as brainless, helpless victims, all white men as kind-hearted and benevolent heroes and all black people as jive talking evil minded criminals, those are problems.

But in the various worlds created by comic creators where there are is a wide diversity of characters representing both positive and negative points of view, the numbers become less important. If there is only one black character in a comic book and he is a cowardly clown, I am quite naturally upset by that representation. But in a world where there are any number of characters presenting points of view pro and con, good and bad, intelligent and stupid, I don't have a problem.

And let's get real for a minute. Comic books aren't immune to the taint of institutional racism or prejudice any more than any other segment of American society. We want everyone to feel that we are treating everyone the same, when we know that we don't treat everyone the same. It is the cache 22 of racial politics. And yes, there are people who still think if we don't talk about the racial divide in this country, it will go away. Guess again.

There are people who look on any effort to expand the scope of the diversity of comic book characters as communist inspired, and those who feel that more can always be done to change things up a bit. Such is life -- get used to it.

And to answer the second question, actually black books do sell. I just received a message from a long-time African American comic book creator who sells almost exclusively at Black Cultural Fairs and he says he pushed an incredible number of units this past summer. And I have yet to appear at a venue where I am speaking about the history of Blacks in comic books without having a number of people stop me and ask where they can find the titles I spotlighted. My problem has been I can't always readily tell them where to look. Even I have to look very hard to find titles.

Back in the 1990s when Milestone and DC Comics teamed up to produce racially diverse titles, I was told by some of my friends who own comic shops that they weren't sure how to market the titles. So they do sell, it's just that, well, there are some problems to work out.

As I stated earlier, I am very optimistic about the variety of characters of color in today's mainstream comic books.”


Lee Dawson: “I think it's just a question of who's making the comics for who. Most comics creators are young (or not as young as they used to be!) white males. Most comics readers are young white males. I think if there were a more diverse creator base creating comics reflecting their unique experiences and perspectives then the audience might also reflect that diversity as well.”
------------
Only black superhero book out now that I really read aside from the BP series is Ant. But it comes out so few and far between it's ridiculous. I don't know what's up with Spawn.

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/imagecomics/200610/ant_10_600.jpg
http://www.thecomicsreview.com/pics/ANTv2.03coverpreview.jpg

[spideyboy_1111]

Who would you guys rank as the Top 5 most popular Black characters? I'm thinking about doing a related report on this for class....share your numbers with me and why you rank them so.

marvel wise....

Storm
Black Panther
Luke Cage
Falcon
War Machine


DC included... i'd prob put the black green lantern in there.. somewhere... but theres no doubt in my mind that Storm is the very top black comic character.... other comic wise i'd say spawn would be pretty high on the list...


sooo off the top of my head... a full comic list of popularity would be

Storm
Spawn
Black Panther
Green Lantern
Steel

[Anubis]

Never cared much for Ant. Couldn't get into it. Firestorm either. And I gave that book plenty of opportunities.

[FEAR THE BAT]

Easily the most popular black character is Spidey now that he's wearing the black duds.

[spideyboy_1111]

haha.... sigh

[spideyboy_1111]

hey lets make a list of the most racist/stereo typical names in comics... :D

Rawhide Kid and Cotton mouth so far top the list :D

[PhotoJones]

Easily the most popular black character is Spidey now that he's wearing the black duds.

hyuk.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Easily the most popular black character is Spidey now that he's wearing the black duds.

:down:whatever:

"Your party is not answering. Please try your call again. Later."

[FEAR THE BAT]

:down:whatever:

"Your party is not answering. Please try your call again. Later."

Wow. That was lamer than I expected. Nice going there champ.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Wow. That was lamer than I expected. Nice going there champ.

Thanks. Just trying to keep up with you buddy. ;)

Now, could you add your list of top black characters in comics or contribute in some other meaningful way to the thread? Thanks.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Never cared much for Ant. Couldn't get into it. Firestorm either. And I gave that book plenty of opportunities.

Ditto. Ant never did much for me either...in fact, I can't get into much of anything Image produces.

[FEAR THE BAT]

Thanks. Just trying to keep up with you buddy. ;)

Now, could you add your list of top black characters in comics or contribute in some other meaningful way to the thread? Thanks.

By quoting something so meaningless?? Damn, I woulda put some more thought into it.

[T'Jai]

By quoting something so meaningless?? Damn, I woulda put some more thought into it.are you really going out of your way to antagonize a mod...:wow: if he bans you for annoying him I don't wanna hear you whine cause u got banned by the black mod...

on to the matter at hand depends u mean main stream or in our little comic world, two different lists...

[FEAR THE BAT]

Antagonize?? No jack, I was just stating what I'd do. Twist it how you want. As far as whining, that ain't me. Won't phase me. And chill on the race thing, I'm not some bigot.

[T'Jai]

fair enough

[La The Darkman]

Who would you guys rank as the Top 5 most popular Black characters? I'm thinking about doing a related report on this for class....share your numbers with me and why you rank them so.

Storm - Movies, cartoon shows, and ties to the X-men make her the most popular, I think the fact that the character's female plays a bit of a part in her popularity too.

Spawn - I really doesn't seem right to even put him on this list for some reason, but the character was/is black, and was hugely popular at one point.

John Stewart - Only because of the Justice League cartoon, to alot of kids he is THE green lantern, while in the comics he's basically super Token.

Luke Cage - Seems like every black male over 25 loves this character. He's always been one of those D-listers that people have a soft spot for and now thanks to Bendis (and to a lesser extent Nic Cage) he's become a favorite character for many fans.

War Machine - Cartoons play a big part is his popularity too, for the most part he used to get much better treatment than the others (Except Storm of course). Can't ignore the fact that he gets a bit of a popularity boost becasue of his ties to Ironman and the Avengers.

Honorable mentions:

Black Panther - My personal favorite Black Superhero, but most people don't realize this character even exists, and many who do don't really know much about him. :csad:

Static - Cartoons strike again....I don't know who's to blame for it, but it's downright stupid of DC to have not capitalized on the popularity of that show by introducing him into the proper DC universe.

Steel - If not for that horrible movie staring the Shaq (aka the fat traitor) I'd say he's more popular than Static and Black Panther. He's gotten to much needed love in 52 though.

Black Lightining - Same deal as Cage except no writer (or actor) has shown him the level of love Cage gets. Atleast that stopped putting him in that old stupid costume.

[hippy fascist]

Terry Moore: “I can't answer that question, but I've also noticed most comic shops are owned by white people and comic book conventions attendees are predominantly white. There's a nice ethnic mix sure, but everywhere I go it's mostly white. I don't know about you, but when I'm in a room full of white people now it gives me the creeps... makes me feel like I'm at a Klan meeting or something. It's just wrong, y'know? It's not reality. So why doesn't Strangers In Paradise have more African-Americans in the cast? Because most of the book is a satirical attack on conservative America from within the ranks. I think the barbs sting more if they come from within the ranks and not across race lines.”


:wow:


I wonder what the reaction would be if i said when I'm in a room full of black people I feel like I'm going to get mugged :whatever:

DOUBLE STANDARD

[T'Jai]

:wow:


I wonder what the reaction would be if i said when I'm in a room full of black people I feel like I'm going to get mugged :whatever:

DOUBLE STANDARD

uh hip u just put your foot in it again that quote is from Terry Moore
a white comic artist/writer... let's all dial down our sensitivity a bit shall we
(my apologies fear the bat...)

[hippy fascist]

uh hip u just put your foot in it again that quote is from Terry Moore
a white comic artist/writer... let's all dial down our sensitivity a bit shall we
(my apologies fear the bat...)

My bad, I have no idea who terry moore is :o

I was just kinda shocked by the comment.

[T'Jai]

well...have a look
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Moore_%28comics%29

[hippy fascist]

well...have a look
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Moore_%28comics%29

Not read anything by him so far...

[T'Jai]

me either just knew who he was

[Anubis]

Ditto. Ant never did much for me either...in fact, I can't get into much of anything Image produces.

You should try Invicible, it's the greatest Superhero comic on the stands today.

[Lightning Strykez!]

You should try Invicible, it's the greatest Superhero comic on the stands today.

Invincible? Never heard of it. Who's in it?

[hippy fascist]

Invincible? Never heard of it. Who's in it?

It exists in it's own universe

It's written by kirkman though and is probably the best thing he's ever written :up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_%28comic%29

[Darthphere]

Invincible? Never heard of it. Who's in it?

I make love to it, 3 times a day.

[T'Jai]

I make love to it, 3 times a day.slowin down eh? is the honeymoon over?

[LouFerignoDemon]

It exists in it's own universe

It's written by kirkman though and is probably the best thing he's ever written :up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_%28comic%29
I would say the Imageverse. Savage Dragon was in it.

I make love to it, 3 times a day.

Invincible is such a whore. Letting it's standards fall to you.

[Eros]

I like Invincible, but the interior art is average compared to some of the covers.

[terry78]

:wow:


I wonder what the reaction would be if i said when I'm in a room full of black people I feel like I'm going to get mugged :whatever:

DOUBLE STANDARD


When the white guys are saying it, you know there's something going on.:oldrazz:


I do see what he's saying though, as while I do have associates that are white, if I'm the only black dude around, yes I will get a little antsy, I don't care how happy and fancy free we are. One guy was like, not that I don't trust the white folks, but I always look around to make sure there's at least one other black guy around, just in case some **** goes down from outta the blue. :o


On topic of Invincible, it's a good book.

[Lightning Strykez!]

I make love to it, 3 times a day.

3 times huh? Invincible got that good **** huh? LOL :woot:

http://www.ryanottley.com/images/covers/36postercolor.jpg

So this character is black with a little El Debarge mixed in for good measure?
:confused:

[Anubis]

heh

No, Invincible isn't black. You just said you haven't read anything that you liked from Image, so I suggested this. Great book. There was also another book that Kirkman created called Capes, which stared a powerful black character named Bolt. It started out with it's own mini, but eventually ended up as a back up in Invincible. There's also a number of black characters in Invincible's regular cast of characters. Particularly on the Guardians of the Globe. (A JLA like team which Invincible's father was affiliated with.) It's a really good book, and if you do check it out, I'd suggest you start from the beginning. The first Thirteen issues are some of the best I've ever read. it's collected in trade, so it shouldn't be hard to find. I'd go for the Hardcovers though.

[RskimB]

Static - Cartoons strike again....I don't know who's to blame for it, but it's downright stupid of DC to have not capitalized on the popularity of that show by introducing him into the proper DC universe.


I really loved the Static character during the show's run, its a shame he's not in any current media since i never got a chance to read the Milestone comics.

[Anubis]

The last two seasons of Static were great. Green Lantern did more....Green Lantern stuff in that one episode he guess stared in than he did in the entirety of JL/JLU. I also really loved that Batman Beyond Crossover. Static was great, really wish they could put him in the regular DCU, but as far as I know, there's some problems with McDuffie and the licensing.

[LouFerignoDemon]

heh

No, Invincible isn't black. You just said you haven't read anything that you liked from Image, so I suggested this. Great book. There was also another book that Kirkman created called Capes, which stared a powerful black character named Bolt. It started out with it's own mini, but eventually ended up as a back up in Invincible. There's also a number of black characters in Invincible's regular cast of characters. Particularly on the Guardians of the Globe. (A JLA like team which Invincible's father was affiliated with.) It's a really good book, and if you do check it out, I'd suggest you start from the beginning. The first Thirteen issues are some of the best I've ever read. it's collected in trade, so it shouldn't be hard to find. I'd go for the Hardcovers though.

Like when Black Sampson went all out and decimated that guy.

[RskimB]

The last two seasons of Static were great. Green Lantern did more....Green Lantern stuff in that one episode he guess stared in than he did in the entirety of JL/JLU. I also really loved that Batman Beyond Crossover. Static was great, really wish they could put him in the regular DCU, but as far as I know, there's some problems with McDuffie and the licensing.

dang. And you're definitely right about all of that, r.i.p. Batman Beyond too

[FEAR THE BAT]

uh hip u just put your foot in it again that quote is from Terry Moore
a white comic artist/writer... let's all dial down our sensitivity a bit shall we
(my apologies fear the bat...)

No beef here. Be easy.

[La The Darkman]

I do see what he's saying though, as while I do have associates that are white, if I'm the only black dude around, yes I will get a little antsy, I don't care how happy and fancy free we are.

despite what some may say, that's a normal reaction, nobody want's to feel out of place but in a situation like that you can't help but feel that way. It be like if you showed up to a meeting in a read T-shirt and jeans and saw that everyone else was in suits, you'd feel a bit out of place regardless...it's just how people are.

[Lightning Strykez!]

heh

No, Invincible isn't black. You just said you haven't read anything that you liked from Image, so I suggested this. Great book. There was also another book that Kirkman created called Capes, which stared a powerful black character named Bolt. It started out with it's own mini, but eventually ended up as a back up in Invincible. There's also a number of black characters in Invincible's regular cast of characters. Particularly on the Guardians of the Globe. (A JLA like team which Invincible's father was affiliated with.) It's a really good book, and if you do check it out, I'd suggest you start from the beginning. The first Thirteen issues are some of the best I've ever read. it's collected in trade, so it shouldn't be hard to find. I'd go for the Hardcovers though.

How's the artwork though? You know I'm a stickler for that...

[La The Darkman]

How's the artwork though? You know I'm a stickler for that...

Subjective like all other art. :huh:

I'm actually quite shocked you've never heard of invincible. It's hands down one of the best comics being published today. :wow:

[Anubis]

Like when Black Sampson went all out and decimated that guy.


Yeah, that was sweet. I wish they could do a mini on him. Find out how he lost his powers and how he had to deal with being kicked out of the Guardians.

How's the artwork though? You know I'm a stickler for that...


Like LA said, art is subjective. I like it. Ottley's a damn fine artist and I can't really see the book work without him.

[Darthphere]

I enjoyed Cory Walker when he was on.

[Anubis]

Me too, I personally find their styles almost indistinguishable.

Check my sig for the Great's of comic art Indie edition. Both should be on the first couple of pages.

[hippy fascist]

What about the Jews?

When was the last time you saw an openly jewish superhero?

[Anubis]

The Thing.

[Darthphere]

What about the Jews?

When was the last time you saw an openly jewish superhero?

Kitty Pryde.