why...did they destroy the avengers

[thor87]

why is it that the avengers are soo weak. I think the only reason they brought sentry in is to make up for the teams overall weakness. The need to bring back some of the former powerhouses like she-hulk, thor, vision, at least 1 giant person, this new team doesnt even look like the avengers

[Muze]

i don't mind the lineup except for maybe this Ronin guy and Wolverine. and having two Spider- characters on the team who aren't partners (like antman & the wasp) is kind of pointless. and, truthfully, i'd rather see Luke Cage and Spiderwoman in a Heroes 4 Hire team. but i don't mind the lineup too much. i would suggest the following though...

- one of the spiderfolk hitting the road
- more women *cough*Carol Danvers*cough*
- Luke Cage being made as powerful as Wonderman
- less ninja
- Nick Fury becoming a mentor of sorts to the team
- a new writer (Geoff Johns, Joe Casey, or JMS preferably)
- keep McNiven

[Muze]

why is it that the avengers are soo weak. I think the only reason they brought sentry in is to make up for the teams overall weakness. The need to bring back some of the former powerhouses like she-hulk, thor, vision, at least 1 giant person, this new team doesnt even look like the avengers

so what would your lineup look like Thor87?

[Brainiac 8]

To be honest, The NA could be fixed easily. They are not bad right now, I actually like the team. How about this:


Captain America (Duh)
Iron Man (double Duh)
Sentry (Powerhouse sorely needed)
Luke Cage(Powerful hand fighter)
Spider-man (Powerful, and could be helpful with his knowledge of science)
Carol Danvers (needs a woman + needs another energy wielder)
Quicksilver (Speedster)
Ronin(Ninja and stealth)


drop - Wolverine - He is an X-Man and we don't need two nearly identical characters
drop - Spider-Woman - we don't need two spider people.

Just my thoughts

[roach]

My fix would be....
Captain America
Iron Man
Sentry
Luke Cage
Spiderwoman
Pulsar(Photon/ Captain Marvel)
She Hulk
Quicksilver

but you are still left with quite a few Avengers....
Avengers WestCoast
Yellow Jacket
Wasp
Wonderman
Spiderwoman(the mutant one)
Josiah X
Quasar
Hercules
Tigra

[Elijya]

thor, would you stop criticizing books you' aren't even reading?

[Zeu]

My Avengers dreamteam

Carol Danvers, Binary, whatever
Photon
Firestar
Scarlet Witch
Titania
Moondragon
Jocasta

[Muze]

mine would be...

1. Iron Fist [temugin-level power but prefers classic kun'lun martial arts]
2. Luke Cage [Wonderman-level strength]
3. Pulsar [vying for field leadership of the team]
4. Black Knight [ash from evil dead but w/ a flying horse & elf-made armor]
5. Spiderwoman [like she was in the last 2 issues of Ostrander's series]
6. Ant-Man II [tech expert used for surveilance, infiltration, & backup]
7. Tigra [back to being someone who would be a threat to Spiderman]
--------
Marc Spector [boss who has solo adventures in his spare time or when schizo]
The Law firm of Goodman,Lieber, Kurtzberg, & Holliway [legal representation]

and i'd call it Heroes 4 Hire

[Muze]

oh, i guess i should provide an example of an Avengers team i'd like...


1. Iron Man [Avengers chairman]
2. Captain America [Avengers field leader]
3. Warbird [basically the defacto field leader if Cap isn't there]
4. Hawkeye [like he was w/ the Thunderbolts but w/ more bite]
5. Scarlet Witch [not crazy but more like her Ultimates counterpart; powerwise]
6. Vision [a black man when not looking like an android]*
7. Wonderman [NY-based actor and charity spokesperson]
GiAnt-Man [reservist & scientist]
Wasp [reservist & official avengers publicist]
* after the complaints about there being no minorities, Vision up and disappears. next time we see him, he has been living in a culturally diverse area of the city for 2 months. he will alter his "human" look alot.

[Scorpion]

I read probably 5 or less issues of the Avengers,...any of the Avenegers (West Coast included), over the past 15 years. The book never appealed to me. Only if it was involved in a crossover did I bother with it. BUT, this New Avengers book is pretty frackin' good!!! This new Sentry arch is a bit slow, but the first six issues were AMAZING. I read the hardcover at a Borders book store. I wish now I had collected the individual books. I am collecting them now.

[KingOfDreams]

My New Avengers team would be...

Captain America
Iron Man
The Sentry
Ronin
Spider-Woman
The Falcon
Luke Cage
Wonder Man
Warbird
Yellowjacket
The Wasp
She-Hulk
The Vision

(I'm not messing with current continuity)

[thor87]

thor, would you stop criticizing books you' aren't even reading?

Actually, i am reading this, and i have been reading avengers for a while and thats why it bothers me to see the team be degraded in such a way. Now would you explain to me why your such an ass.

[thor87]

so what would your lineup look like Thor87?

Cap
Ironman
Thor
Quicksilver
Spiderman can stay
Luke Cage can Stay
Warbird
ant-man,(if he were still alive)
Black Panther(not there just to spy, but to contribute)
Hawkeye(if he were still alive)

[Anubis]

why is it that the avengers are soo weak. I think the only reason they brought sentry in is to make up for the teams overall weakness. The need to bring back some of the former powerhouses like she-hulk, thor, vision, at least 1 giant person, this new team doesnt even look like the avengers


Because you touch yourself at night!

[blah]

The Avangers should be more like an armey... so they should give a communicator for each and every superhero in marvel and call on them whenever they are needed or available. Kind of like the justice league.

[roach]

yes..shameless Family Guy reference

[Anubis]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[KAD]

You all want to boot Wolverine and keep spiderman.

Luke cage should never be made as powerful as Wonderman he is a street hero keep him that way. Bring back heroes for Hire, the real one.

I am a Wolverine fan but I would want him gone as well.

My line up:

Wonderman

Beast

hawkeye

Ms Marvel (Frickin Warbird)

IM

Yellow jacket

and the scarlet witch

[Varient]

why is it that the avengers are soo weak. I think the only reason they brought sentry in is to make up for the teams overall weakness. The need to bring back some of the former powerhouses like she-hulk, thor, vision, at least 1 giant person, this new team doesnt even look like the avengers
.................................................. ..............................................

no comment.

Nothing I could say could would change your mind.

Peace.

[Colossal Spoons]

1. We still know nothing of Ronin right? I heard somewhere that he definately wasn't DD.

2. Is Luke Cage super durable and super strong or just durable? Cuz it would be hard to power him up to Wonderman levels if he didn't have superstrength to begin with.

3. According to New Avengers, Vision is back right? He inhabited Iron Lad's armor.

[Anubis]

He's back, but he's with the Young Avengers.

And yes, Cage does have super Strength, they have him listed at around 25 tons. But he's been seen doing s**t in the 40-45 ton range.

[Arkady Rossovich]

This is something comic book fans have been wondering since the Avengers were dissambled.Few like this new roster,and the fact that so much second class heros were now in the spotlight.

I already hear of stories to bring back Hawkeye,and Vision.However i do like Wolverine as part of the Avengers,but Power Man and Sentry should have been replaces with Thor and Ms.Marvel,everything else...i can deal with...slightly...

[SpideyInATree]

Isn't Vision and Hawkeye already back? :confused:

[roach]

1. We still know nothing of Ronin right? I heard somewhere that he definately wasn't DD.

but he is Matt Murdoch

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha, sounds like something Bendis would say.

[deathshead2]

I laugh at the new avengers there now the weakest team in the marvel universe hahahahaha.But sense they have the sentry now all the other members can go take a coffie break or something while sentry owns all the bad guys in the marvel universe.

[roach]

Haha, sounds like something Bendis would say.


it's the leading guess as to who Ronin is...since Marvel is adamant in continuing to say Ronin is not DD....but it doesnt mean it cant be MM.

[mightiest_mortal]

Wolverine will be okay in limited amounts. I do like the way hes justified though, as being there for them if ever they need to kill anyone. Hes just a gun for them really.
If they didnt have Wolverine who would anybody want to fill this role and reason? I think they should add Morbius to the team. That would be rather an interesting Addition...He would be able to kill, and would add a mystical element to the team. I quite liked some of his midnight sons series (apart from 3/4 of it that was all parts of crossovers with GR and all of the other titles in the series) and dont really think hes done a great deal worthwhile since then.

[deathshead2]

I would like toxen on the team he beat 2 members of the wrecking crew with ease while the other members of the new avenger could barely beat one and if spiderwomen wasn't there they would have died.

[Varient]

Scary.
The LACK of comic lore displayed here by folk toting their favs and dissin the current lineup of the avengers.

tsk,...
you can tell the ones that don't know by the comments about "weakness" in the same sentence with "hawkeye"

The Avengers have been "Weaker" than this MANY TIMES. Not even going to get into the wuss factor of the west coast avengers.

Some of you just need to get a clue.

[SpideyInATree]

it's the leading guess as to who Ronin is...since Marvel is adamant in continuing to say Ronin is not DD....but it doesnt mean it cant be MM.

If Marvel goes by that logic than everyone running the place are a bunch of super douche bags. Matt Murdock IS Daredevil. So, if they say its not Daredevil than it can't be. But if they pull that little stunt I'll definitely be pretty pissed off.

Though I do have a tiny gut feeling that it may happen that way and Bendis will prove through and through that he is a total douche bag. :(

[Elijya]

Actually, i am reading this, and i have been reading avengers for a while and thats why it bothers me to see the team be degraded in such a way. Now would you explain to me why your such an ass.
to you?

because you're the proverbial "stupid newbie"

but to expand on that: your arrogance in debating subjects when you cleary know nothing about the other side of it. You scoff at the notion of the black panther's abilities, then ask what they are. Your insistence that superman clones bring nothing to the table, when you've demonstrated no knowledge of the importance of such works like Miracle Man, Squadron Supreme, and the Authority. Your notion that the Avengers have to be powerful to be interesting as well. Need I remind you that at one time, the team was just Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch? oh, and comments like these don't help either:
hulk should be able to beat anyone,
uh-huh :rolleyes:
french gal, i think what your not realizing is that the Sentry has a big S on him,
how is she not realizing that? is she blind?
Many people, i think are discrediting superman to this new guy who every one thinks will kick the crap out of the greatest hero of either universe.
no one was doing that
Superman may not have the power of 1,000,000 exploding suns, but his power is still in essence limitless.
never heard that one before
But Superman was first and he will always be the best. 1939 Action Comics #1. The first and most powerfull man of steel.
isn't that like saying the Model T is the best car?


not to say that you and I can't get along, but I'll respond appropriately to individual instances.

[roach]

Wolverine will be okay in limited amounts. I do like the way hes justified though, as being there for them if ever they need to kill anyone. Hes just a gun for them really.
If they didnt have Wolverine who would anybody want to fill this role and reason? I think they should add Morbius to the team. That would be rather an interesting Addition...He would be able to kill, and would add a mystical element to the team. I quite liked some of his midnight sons series (apart from 3/4 of it that was all parts of crossovers with GR and all of the other titles in the series) and dont really think hes done a great deal worthwhile since then.

Wolverine is just the most popular killer...there are other people who could have filled that role......Tigra/Hercules/Hulk/Moon knight.....which then begs the question...Are any of the others incapable of killing??? I think if it came down to it Captain America, Iron man, Cage or Sentry arecapable of killing.

[Elijya]

Scary.
The LACK of comic lore displayed here by folk toting their favs and dissin the current lineup of the avengers.

tsk,...
you can tell the ones that don't know by the comments about "weakness" in the same sentence with "hawkeye"

The Avengers have been "Weaker" than this MANY TIMES. Not even going to get into the wuss factor of the west coast avengers.

Some of you just need to get a clue.
THANK YOU Varient

[roach]

Scary.
The LACK of comic lore displayed here by folk toting their favs and dissin the current lineup of the avengers.

tsk,...
you can tell the ones that don't know by the comments about "weakness" in the same sentence with "hawkeye"

The Avengers have been "Weaker" than this MANY TIMES. Not even going to get into the wuss factor of the west coast avengers.

Some of you just need to get a clue.

while I admit knowing about Cap's quartet that was back in the day when the only teams were the FF and the Xmen were the original students.......
...the Avengers title is Earth's Mightiest Heroes. This team is weaker than the X-Men and the New Thunderbolts. There are literally dozens of ex Avengers doing nothing...put them on the team and beef it up. Use the apparent weak team as part of a story. Have and arc with the Masters of Evil or Kang or Ultron. The Avengers are the guys who save the world on a regular basis...show me that again.

[gildea]

That post by Elijya....sublime.

[SilverCenturion]

I would like toxen on the team he beat 2 members of the wrecking crew with ease while the other members of the new avenger could barely beat one and if spiderwomen wasn't there they would have died.Uh, actually the New Avengers struggling to beat the Wrecking Crew is a good thing just good writing, whereas letting everyone else walk all over the wrecking crew is plain stupid.
Unfortunately the Wrecking Crew (much like Juggernaut) are being always being used against new teams/heroes/villians just to show how powerful these new teams are and so it just looks sloppy.
I mean, would you really say that Toxin could beat Thor with ease? Because the Wrecking Crew are supposed to be at about the same level in power

[Dr.Fear]

i like the team.except for wolverine! but having wolvie thrown out the window by peter was hilarious!

[SpideyInATree]

Yeah, that was funny as hell.

Luke Cage was like, "Isn't that unbreakable glass?" Heh. :)

[Dr.Fear]

Yeah, that was funny as hell.

Luke Cage was like, "Isn't that unbreakable glass?" Heh. :)


yeah just shows how strong pete is. maybe wolvie should be comedy releif, for peter to pick on.

[King_Mungi]

Can someone clarify something for me:
Wanda upon destroying the trademark Avengers, it was said that Choas Magic didn't exist (something to that affect, anyone have the exact statement would be appreicated due to I didn't read it.). However, I have scans that had Doctor Strange using Choas magic to battle with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/chaos15xf.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/chaos20vb.jpg

Was this a Bendis mistake? I didn't read his ark so I couldn't clarify it for myself.

[deemar325]

Cap
Ironman
Thor
Quicksilver
Spiderman can stay
Luke Cage can Stay
Warbird
ant-man,(if he were still alive)
Black Panther(not there just to spy, but to contribute)
Hawkeye(if he were still alive)

same as mine i like!:up:

[roach]

Can someone clarify something for me:
Wanda upon destroying the trademark Avengers, it was said that Choas Magic didn't exist (something to that affect, anyone have the exact statement would be appreicated due to I didn't read it.). However, I have scans that had Doctor Strange using Choas magic to battle with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/chaos15xf.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/chaos20vb.jpg

Was this a Bendis mistake? I didn't read his ark so I couldn't clarify it for myself.

read that again knowing what you know about Wanda

[deemar325]

:down :( Can someone clarify something for me:
Wanda upon destroying the trademark Avengers, it was said that Choas Magic didn't exist (something to that affect, anyone have the exact statement would be appreicated due to I didn't read it.). However, I have scans that had Doctor Strange using Choas magic to battle with.

Bendis doesn't care about what came before, major ego!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/chaos15xf.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/chaos20vb.jpg

Was this a Bendis mistake? I didn't read his ark so I couldn't clarify it for myself.

[Dr.Fear]

this is an unrelated question, but does marvel own the character gravity now?

[deemar325]

this is an unrelated question, but does marvel own the character gravity now?

Yes.:up:

[Elijya]

this is an unrelated question, but does marvel own the character gravity now?
why wouldn't they?

[Elijya]

Was this a Bendis mistake? I didn't read his ark so I couldn't clarify it for myself.
I don't think Bendis has explained what the hell that whole "chaos magic doesn't exist" thing was, though people have called him on it with instances like this

(btw, not the biggest deal in the world, but it's "arc" in this sense, not "ark". an "ark" is a container or vessel, usually for lots of animals or the ten commandments)

[SpideyInATree]

Or Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost ARK :o

[Elijya]

yeah, in that sense it was a container, the one that held the commandments... like I mentioned

[King_Mungi]

read that again knowing what you know about Wanda

I never read it in the first place like I said, so I don't know the description they gave about the creation of Choas Magic. She has reality altering powers, but even in the JLA/Avengers crossover if you consider that canon had a stronger field of Choas magic in the JLA universe.

I don't think Bendis has explained what the hell that whole "chaos magic doesn't exist" thing was, though people have called him on it with instances like this

(btw, not the biggest deal in the world, but it's "arc" in this sense, not "ark". an "ark" is a container or vessel, usually for lots of animals or the ten commandments)

Hmmm...interesting. Also wasn't it Dr.Strange in Avengers #503 that said there was no such thing as Choas Magic? and that he offered an apprenticeship to Scarlet Witch? when was that? I guess I should pick up the arc just to clarify it for myself.

Thanks for the correction, but I know about Noah's ark and how it's used. Just thought they were still spelt the same. My mistake.

[thor87]

to you?

because you're the proverbial "stupid newbie"

but to expand on that: your arrogance in debating subjects when you cleary know nothing about the other side of it. You scoff at the notion of the black panther's abilities, then ask what they are. Your insistence that superman clones bring nothing to the table, when you've demonstrated no knowledge of the importance of such works like Miracle Man, Squadron Supreme, and the Authority. Your notion that the Avengers have to be powerful to be interesting as well. Need I remind you that at one time, the team was just Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch? oh, and comments like these don't help either:

uh-huh :rolleyes:

how is she not realizing that? is she blind?

no one was doing that

never heard that one before

isn't that like saying the Model T is the best car?


not to say that you and I can't get along, but I'll respond appropriately to individual instances.

first off, i may be new here but im not new to comic books, the reason i asked for what the black panther has done is because i know of his powers as stated on marvel.com and the other information that provieds but that isnt always current. Now the superman clones have there purposes as long as they are recognized as such, and people dont insist upon them as being original, and please now that the scarlet witch has basically destroyed the avengers and rewritten history, so dont try and tell me a team with her on it is weak, same with quicksilver and hawkeye, they may not be pysically strong, but the team needs a speedster, and hawkeye if i recall did a lot more than just pull his weight,

i dont know what made you act this way towards me, but i guess you dont like other peoples points of view, or maby you just dont like people who dont agree with you. Heck maby ill give you the bennefit of the doubt and say your just having a rough week.

[Deadpool187]

i don't mind the lineup except for maybe this Ronin guy and Wolverine. and having two Spider- characters on the team who aren't partners (like antman & the wasp) is kind of pointless. and, truthfully, i'd rather see Luke Cage and Spiderwoman in a Heroes 4 Hire team. but i don't mind the lineup too much. i would suggest the following though...

- one of the spiderfolk hitting the road
- more women *cough*Carol Danvers*cough*
- Luke Cage being made as powerful as Wonderman
- less ninja
- Nick Fury becoming a mentor of sorts to the team
- a new writer (Geoff Johns, Joe Casey, or JMS preferably)
- keep McNiven



Why dont you like Ronin?

[Elijya]

first off, i may be new here but im not new to comic books, the reason i asked for what the black panther has done is because i know of his powers as stated on marvel.com and the other information that provieds but that isnt always current. Now the superman clones have there purposes as long as they are recognized as such, and people dont insist upon them as being original, and please now that the scarlet witch has basically destroyed the avengers and rewritten history, so dont try and tell me a team with her on it is weak, same with quicksilver and hawkeye, they may not be pysically strong, but the team needs a speedster, and hawkeye if i recall did a lot more than just pull his weight,

i dont know what made you act this way towards me, but i guess you dont like other peoples points of view, or maby you just dont like people who dont agree with you. Heck maby ill give you the bennefit of the doubt and say your just having a rough week.

I am having a rough week - I'm moving into a new place, which is pretty stressful, and I got a flat this week, so yeah. Thanks for noticing

but you asked why, so I gave you a couple of reasons

oh, and wanda may have been able to do all that stuff, but she certainly couldn't back then. Just like varient and I said, the Avengers have been WAY weaker than this before. But it's not about having a strong team (if it was, why not have the team be Hulk, Thor, Silver Surfer, Phoenix, and Dr. Strange and change their names to the Ass-kickers?) it's about the dynamic of the team. what characters does the writer want to write so he can make the book interesting to the readers? that's the way it's always been done, in every book

[thor87]

I am having a rough week - I'm moving into a new place, which is pretty stressful, and I got a flat this week, so yeah. Thanks for noticing

but you asked why, so I gave you a couple of reasons

oh, and wanda may have been able to do all that stuff, but she certainly couldn't back then. Just like varient and I said, the Avengers have been WAY weaker than this before. But it's not about having a strong team (if it was, why not have the team be Hulk, Thor, Silver Surfer, Phoenix, and Dr. Strange and change their names to the Ass-kickers?) it's about the dynamic of the team. what characters does the writer want to write so he can make the book interesting to the readers? that's the way it's always been done, in every book

first off, im sorry that youve had a bad week, secondly i agree that the avengers dont need to be ultra powerfull, but it is a little disconcerting to see the team have a large amount of lower level characters and then bring in the ultra powerfull sentry to try and balance things out. You see when you have hero's like luke cage, whos a street level hero, and then you bring in sentry who went toe-toe with galactus, i just see that as a disconnect

[iloveclones]

Damnable Double Post!!!!!! Damn your eyes!!!!!!!!!

[Marty Feldman] Too Late! [/Marty Feldman]

[iloveclones]

It's funny to me when I see people put together their Avenger's Dream Team, and all they concentrate are their powers. Either Ultra-powerful, or a mix that includes one of each (speedster, brawler, firepower, tactician, etc.) All I care about is what mix of personalities that will lead to stories. I don't care much if they all have the power level of Kitty Pryde. That's secondary to me. How they relate to each other is what is going to create friction and drama, not if they can take on the Hulk.

By the way, welcome to your new home Elijya.

[Elijya]

well said, ILC

and thanks

[hippie_hunter]

My problem with the line up is that some characters just don't belong on the team: most particularly Luke Cage (Hero for Hire) and Wolverine (X-Men). And personally I just don't care for the Sentry and Spider-Woman. However I do think that Spider-Man and Daredevil (its so damn obvious that he's Ronin :o) could be some potentially kick ass Avengers.

My Avenger's line-up
Captian America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Ant-Man (Hank Pym), Wasp, Hawkeye, Vision, Black Widow, Warbird, Dr. Strange, Sub-Mariner, Black Panther, Falcon

[Elijya]

yeah, but it's interesting to see some people you never expected to on the team. It's not like it's irrevocable

and that's an awfully big line up. Rule of thumb for super teams is 7 members. That way, between vilalins and guest stars, new readers won't be confused by the number of characters running around

[hippie_hunter]

yeah, but it's interesting to see some people you never expected to on the team. It's not like it's irrevocable

and that's an awfully big line up. Rule of thumb for super teams is 7 members. That way, between vilalins and guest stars, new readers won't be confused by the number of characters running around

I prefer bigger teams. Hell my perfect Justice League line-up adds another 8 characters to the main 7. Not every story has to have every member. Sorta like how the Justice League cartoon was where most stories only had about 3 or 4 members out of 7 appearing and having all 7 together rarely for a big kick ass story. A bigger team also show power and teams like the JLA and the Avengers should be the Earth's most powerful heroes

[Colossal Spoons]

My only problem with this team is the lack of projectiles. This seems to be more of a brawling team (Cap, Spidey, Luke, Logan). Iron Man alone can't give me my projectile fix. Being the old school Street Fighter fan that I am, I like to; simply put, "shoot ****". I don't have any suggestions for additions to the team but I wouldn't add Ronin who's a close range fighter, but I'd go for a longer range person. Just my two pennies :up:

[SpideyInATree]

Spidey and Cap have projectiles. :o

Spidey has his webs. Cap has his shield. :up:

What...do you want them shooting death beams out of their eyes or something? :confused:

[Arkady Rossovich]

Again i look at the title of this thread,and it still comes back to the surface.Many fans do not like what has happened.I KNOW that all of this will be changed once another writer takes over the Avengers,or has it happened already?Im not into Marvel much now,mainly DC now.

I can only hope that things get better.

[Colossal Spoons]

Spidey and Cap have projectiles. :o

Spidey has his webs. Cap has his shield. :up:

What...do you want them shooting death beams out of their eyes or something? :confused:

Not so far as death beams, but a good laser here or there wouldn't hurt. Spidey's webs and Cap's shield are the lowest form of projectiles in the Marvel universe(next to Rockslide shooting his hands at enemies)

[SpideyInATree]

They're still projectiles. :o

[Muze]

They're still projectiles. :o

only when thrown or shot.

[Arach Knight]

Truth be told, I never liked the original Avengers. I didn't like Beast being one. I didn't like Captain America as much, given his jingoistic portrayal at times. Hawkeye never impressed me. The list goes on. But as I grew up, I came to respect a lot of the characters as individuals. I started to cheer on Hawkeye for being the "Batman" of the group. Everybody had powers or armor, but he was just a guy with a bow. Captain America started to be a supporter of the American ideal rather than the American government etc.

None of that changed my opinion of the Avengers as a team. I in fact believe I only own a total of two Avengers books....and those are West Coast Avengers. However, New Avengers caught my eye. The team is really odd in arrangement, but they work. I don't see why people don't want two "spider" characters on the team. It neither adds nor detracts from the plot. And it gets a really cool character to come out of retirement. And it isn't like all of her powers are the same. Last time I checked, Peter didn't shoot bio-electrical charges from his hands. I like this team as is, because they now sort of have that X-Men dynamic. It has the humor and the heart. I also approve of them no longer being government sanctioned. I think that is what displeased me the most about the old Avengers.

[Muze]

Truth be told, I never liked the original Avengers. I didn't like Beast being one. I didn't like Captain America as much, given his jingoistic portrayal at times. Hawkeye never impressed me. The list goes on. But as I grew up, I came to respect a lot of the characters as individuals. I started to cheer on Hawkeye for being the "Batman" of the group. Everybody had powers or armor, but he was just a guy with a bow. Captain America started to be a supporter of the American ideal rather than the American government etc.

None of that changed my opinion of the Avengers as a team. I in fact believe I only own a total of two Avengers books....and those are West Coast Avengers. However, New Avengers caught my eye. The team is really odd in arrangement, but they work. I don't see why people don't want two "spider" characters on the team. It neither adds nor detracts from the plot. And it gets a really cool character to come out of retirement. And it isn't like all of her powers are the same. Last time I checked, Peter didn't shoot bio-electrical charges from his hands. I like this team as is, because they now sort of have that X-Men dynamic. It has the humor and the heart. I also approve of them no longer being government sanctioned. I think that is what displeased me the most about the old Avengers.


you approve of them not being government sanctioned. that was the whole point of an Avengers team. they were the U.S.'s appointed heroes. they weren't a group of outcasts (Xmen), a family of celebrities(Fantastic Four), youngsters (New Warriors), or a forced grouping of misanthropes like the Defenders.

[Arach Knight]

I just never bought into that. I think the Avengers being government sanctioned sort of contradicted some of Marvel's better characterization. How can people hate mutants for instance, The Hulk and even hate Spider-Man (who is a non mutant) but love the Avengers? Just because the government okays them? Then suddenly Hulk is an Avenger so its all peachy keen? That's far too sheepish for me to swallow. I like the fact that the New Avengers clashed with S.H.I.E.L.D in the first story arc. I like the idea that they aren't some paycheck receiving media ploy. I just agree with it much more than I do the original Avengers. Like I said, I dug a lot of the Avengers as individual characters. I just couldn't tolerate them as a team.

[Muze]

I just never bought into that. I think the Avengers being government sanctioned sort of contradicted some of Marvel's better characterization. How can people hate mutants for instance, The Hulk and even hate Spider-Man (who is a non mutant) but love the Avengers? Just because the government okays them?

yeah. same thing happened with Freedom Force and X-Factor. government approval means that they aren't a threat to regular human beings. Spiderman answers to no one, wears a mask, and generally doesn't interact much with the public. the Xmen seclude themselves in what technically is a military base and cause untold property damage whenever they wander into public. that's why they are feared. the Avengers have parades, press conferences, toy lines. they're also licensed. what about that is hard to understand?


Then suddenly Hulk is an Avenger so its all peachy keen?

he was erased from the role call.

That's far too sheepish for me to swallow. I like the fact that the New Avengers clashed with S.H.I.E.L.D in the first story arc.

they clashed with SHIELD because SHIELD are now the bad guys. there's obviously something up if they are employing a russian assassin to do black ops work. and this is nothing new. the old Avengers have had bad dealings with the CSA and the military.

like the idea that they aren't some paycheck receiving media ploy. I just agree with it much more than I do the original Avengers. Like I said, I dug a lot of the Avengers as individual characters. I just couldn't tolerate them as a team.

fair enough. but they aren't the Avengers. they're the New Avengers.

[SilverCenturion]

only when thrown or shot.
As opposed to projectiles that are neither thrown nor shot?

[Muze]

As opposed to projectiles that are neither thrown nor shot?

of course

[Arach Knight]

They simply call themselves the Avengers in the book. I mean, they clarify that they are the new (current) Avengers, but New Avengers isn't the team name. That is just the book name. Also, I suppose government approval can make a group less threatening, but that depends on how an author spins it. In the Ultimates book (which was the first incarnation of the Avengers that I read with any seriousness and regularity) has a much better take on it. They are government approved, but the general public mostly felt they were being shylocked when it came to the team. They didn't completly trust them or think that their combat situations were real. They thought it was a lot of hoax. This caused the Ultimates to need media spin doctors to play up their image. I liked that angle as it was more believable in a world that hates one kind of super hero, but not the next. It just comes off as too abitrary to say "oh hey, that's just the government, so it has to be okay." So the New Avengers and the Ultimates have my blessing. The old Avengers still don't. You don't have to agree with me you know. We can simply agree to disagree...

[SpideyInATree]

only when thrown or shot.


And, isn't that what a projectile IS?! :confused: :o

[A_French_Gal]

My only problem with this team is the lack of projectiles. This seems to be more of a brawling team (Cap, Spidey, Luke, Logan). Iron Man alone can't give me my projectile fix. Being the old school Street Fighter fan that I am, I like to; simply put, "shoot ****". I don't have any suggestions for additions to the team but I wouldn't add Ronin who's a close range fighter, but I'd go for a longer range person. Just my two pennies :up:

Then you'll be happy to know that the Sentry shoots energy projectiles. And so does Spider Woman.

[A_French_Gal]

I started to cheer on Hawkeye for being the "Batman" of the group. Everybody had powers or armor, but he was just a guy with a bow.

Iron Man was like that too. And some would argue he'd be the Avenger's "Batman" more than anybody else at times. Omit the whole armor thing, he was just a normal guy who used gadgets like Batman or Hawkeye.

[Muze]

Iron Man was like that too. And some would argue he'd be the Avenger's "Batman" more than anybody else at times. Omit the whole armor thing, he was just a normal guy who used gadgets like Batman or Hawkeye.

it seems like the Avengers have a couple Batmen. :)

Pym - scientist obsessed with justice after his wife is killed. takes on sidekick.

Moonknight - millionaire playboy who moonlights as a costumed crimefighter

Black Panther - boy who watchs parents murder grows up to be a caped hero who relies on gadgetry and martial arts

[Kevin]

I Don't Like Sentry That Much But The Arc Right Now Is Kool

[Colossal Spoons]

Then you'll be happy to know that the Sentry shoots energy projectiles. And so does Spider Woman.

Yeah Sentry will aid Iron Man in givin me my projectile fix. I don't count Spider Woman's flashy things though.

[deemar325]

first off, i may be new here but im not new to comic books, the reason i asked for what the black panther has done is because i know of his powers as stated on marvel.com and the other information that provieds but that isnt always current. Now the superman clones have there purposes as long as they are recognized as such, and people dont insist upon them as being original, and please now that the scarlet witch has basically destroyed the avengers and rewritten history, so dont try and tell me a team with her on it is weak, same with quicksilver and hawkeye, they may not be pysically strong, but the team needs a speedster, and hawkeye if i recall did a lot more than just pull his weight,

i dont know what made you act this way towards me, but i guess you dont like other peoples points of view, or maby you just dont like people who dont agree with you. Heck maby ill give you the bennefit of the doubt and say your just having a rough week.

He does "Elijya" have a habit of being an @$$ and all but don't sweat it. It's not like he's gonna show up at your front door.:up:

[deemar325]

yeah, but it's interesting to see some people you never expected to on the team. It's not like it's irrevocable

and that's an awfully big line up. Rule of thumb for super teams is 7 members. That way, between vilalins and guest stars, new readers won't be confused by the number of characters running around

7 is a good number, hell I go with 8 to even it out.:up:

[Arach Knight]

Iron Man was like that too. And some would argue he'd be the Avenger's "Batman" more than anybody else at times. Omit the whole armor thing, he was just a normal guy who used gadgets like Batman or Hawkeye.

In characterization I suppose Tony would be closer to Bruce. Tony finances the Avengers, and uses gadgets. But honestly...the Iron Man armor makes him super human. He gains super strength, massive amounts of endurance and things like radar etc. Batman's gadgets are mostly rooted in hand to hand combat...like rope, boomerangs, smoke bombs etc. I paralleled him more to Hawkeye, because nothing Hawkeye has, makes him super human, yet he still carries himself well amongst some mighty forces, very much in the same way that Batman does.

[deemar325]

In characterization I suppose Tony would be closer to Bruce. Tony finances the Avengers, and uses gadgets. But honestly...the Iron Man armor makes him super human. He gains super strength, massive amounts of endurance and things like radar etc. Batman's gadgets are mostly rooted in hand to hand combat...like rope, boomerangs, smoke bombs etc. I paralleled him more to Hawkeye, because nothing Hawkeye has, makes him super human, yet he still carries himself well amongst some mighty forces, very much in the same way that Batman does.

I saw Hawkeye as a counter point to Green Arrow, and Tony as an original with no opposite in JLA.

[A_French_Gal]

In characterization I suppose Tony would be closer to Bruce. Tony finances the Avengers, and uses gadgets. But honestly...the Iron Man armor makes him super human. He gains super strength, massive amounts of endurance and things like radar etc. Batman's gadgets are mostly rooted in hand to hand combat...like rope, boomerangs, smoke bombs etc. I paralleled him more to Hawkeye, because nothing Hawkeye has, makes him super human, yet he still carries himself well amongst some mighty forces, very much in the same way that Batman does.

I can see what you mean. But Tony is still limited by his own human self. His armor is only as responsive as he is. It would be like Hawkeye using a nuclear tipped arrow, or Batman using an explosive batarang. Iron Man just uses shielding. lol

[thor87]

I can see what you mean. But Tony is still limited by his own human self. His armor is only as responsive as he is. It would be like Hawkeye using a nuclear tipped arrow, or Batman using an explosive batarang. Iron Man just uses shielding. lol

very, very, very sophisticated shielding, nothing like the suits of armor that medival knights used to wear lol,

[SuGarRush]

Yeah Sentry will aid Iron Man in givin me my projectile fix. I don't count Spider Woman's flashy things though.

Spider Woman is flashing in New Avengers?

[Arkady Rossovich]

No,i can imagine what he means is when Spider-Woman has her hands in a peticular position,and energy bolts,small,though are fired from her hands.But i do understand that there are not alot of avengers who shoot projectiles,i can only think of Iron Man,Captian America and Spider-Man.Then again,i stoped reading after Issue 5.

[KAD]

Iron Man was like that too. And some would argue he'd be the Avenger's "Batman" more than anybody else at times. Omit the whole armor thing, he was just a normal guy who used gadgets like Batman or Hawkeye.


No....



Just No...


Maybe a negative Lex but not Bats

[roach]

No....



Just No...


Maybe a negative Lex but not Bats

actually wouldnt he be a positive Lex?????

[A_French_Gal]

very, very, very sophisticated shielding, nothing like the suits of armor that medival knights used to wear lol,

And Batman sports stuff ordinary people have no access too either. Last time I checked, most cops don't sport exploding boomerangs on an utility belt.

[A_French_Gal]

No....



Just No...


Maybe a negative Lex but not Bats

I said some. Most link it to the, "They're rich people," arguement.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, everyone knows that all rich people are the same. ;)

[KAD]

actually wouldnt he be a positive Lex?????


Not if you ask Lex

[Varient]

Not if you ask Lex
hmmmn.

A "positive" Lex Luthor?
From where,... Qward?

[KAD]

hmmmn.

A "positive" Lex Luthor?
From where,... Qward?


In Lex's mind he is the positive version.


Nobody understands him

[thor87]

In Lex's mind he is the positive version.


Nobody understands him

this is true for most villians, they believe they are right or at least right from there perspective hence they view themselves as positive, it is only when others see lexs actions as negative do people view him as negative, it all comes down to whos mind were talking about

[Varient]

In Lex's mind he is the positive version.


Nobody understands him
(Smile)

Just like Loki in that Spiderman issue where they shared a couple of Dogs and soda.

"I'm not Evil,.... I'm just misunderstood."

[Kevin]

(Smile)

Just like Loki in that Spiderman issue where they shared a couple of Dogs and soda.

"I'm not Evil,.... I'm just misunderstood."

I loved Loki when he was in that issue of AZM #504

[TheCorpulent1]

Loki said he was complicated. But I liked that, too. :)

[Black Panther]

I loved Loki when he was in that issue of AZM #504

i love that issue also :up:

[White_Howling]

i love that issue also :up:

the hotdog issue? yeah that was great

[Kevin]

i love that issue also :up:

C.B 1: Should i say it?
C.B 2: I think i should.
C.B 3: (Maybe it's not such a good idea.)
C.B 1: Screw you COMICBOY i'm gonna say it...

That's what i'm talking about!

[Kevin]

C.B 1: Should i say it?
C.B 2: I think i should.
C.B 3: (Maybe it's not such a good idea.)
C.B 1: Screw you COMICBOY i'm gonna say it...

That's what i'm talking about!Just thought I should remind everyone of what a loser I am... God I suck. Not even kidding.