Rank and Review all 5 Batfilms.

[JackBauer24]

1. Batman Begins
By far and away the best of the Batman movies. I've seen it 6 times in the cinema now and I just can't get over how much I love this film. It's well-written, beautifully shot, wonderfully directed and impeccably cast. Of all the Batfilms, BB is the fastest-paced, has the best story, the best acting, the most well-rounded characters and the most action. The genius is that it takes itself so seriously and tells its story so well and with such conviction. It takes courage to do this as it's easy to enjoy a film for camp value. BB has none of this. It has emotion, suspense and drama.

2. Batman Returns
I know this is hated by many Batfans, but I'm rating them as movies and not as comic-book adaptations. I just love it when Burton goes gothic (big Sleepy Hollow fan) and it doesn't come much more macabre than this. It's a visual feast and is definitely the most beautiful of all the films (in an eerie sort of way). Danny Devito's Penguin isn't that great a character and an abominable adaptation but he plays it with some verve at least. Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman is perfect I think, I just love her and she and Keaton have great chemistry. She is definitely the best love interest the series had (including Rachel), probably because she served other functions in the plot. The whole end with the rocket penguins is quite silly I admit but I'll forgive it because the movie also has Christopher Walken.

3. Batman
A great first adaptation, about as good as could have been hoped then. Love Batman's introduction at the beginning. This movie is probably the closest to the original Bob Kane interpretation of Batman. Keaton is well-cast and the whole mystery surrounding Batman is intriguing. My big problem with the movie is the fact I think Nicholson was miscast as the Joker (and written badly). Simply, he was too old and fat. He'd have been a good Joker in his prime but he was just too... fat, I'm sorry. Plus, the Joker isn't meant to be a gangster. Didn't like the interpretation at all. But that aside, Batman '89 is still a damn fun movie to watch.

4. Batman & Robin
People are going to hate me for this. But let me get this straight before I go on - it IS rubbish. I KNOW it's rubbish. B&R is complete and utter cinematic garbage, yes. It's total defemation of the character. But it's just SO bad, SO over the top that at times I can't help but laugh. I think you need to be in the right mood to enjoy this movie for what it is... a pantomime. The special effects are decent, Arnie is funny (if you enjoy watching Arnie act badly, as I do - not because of his lines) and I don't care who she's playing, Uma Thurman is HOT. The only thing genuinely good about the movie is Michael Gough, who deserved better. Trash, but entertaining trash.

5. Batman Forever
Now the reason this comes bottom (and it was a close call) is because the only thing worse than complete garbage a movie can be is mediocre. Boring. Nothing really worthy of great positive or great negative note. Val Kilmer was so boring I forgot he was in the movie. Tommy Lee Jones was AWFUL (and didn't have the luxury of entertaining cheesiness a la Arnie) and Jim Carrey wasn't hot (a la Uma). I mean they were both rubbish, but B&R had more explosive and ridiculous action. At least it could be enjoyed on a pantomime level. This couldn't. Boring.

[The Chairman]

Here are the reviews I did at amazon.com


For B89 (rating: 5 stars)

I have to say that as much I loved "Batman Begins", the original 1989 movie "Batman" is still undoubtedly my favorite (followed by "Begins" and "Batman Returns"). Tim Burton really gave the Dark Knight the respect he deserved, as he created the greatest superhero movie ever.

Right from the opening scene, involving a family being attacked by vicious thugs on the crime infested streets of Gotham, there is no doubt you're in for a wild thrill ride. The basic plot is like this. Batman (Michael Keaton) is a vigilante out to thwart the criminals that permeate throughout the city of Gotham. His secret identity, introverted millionaire Bruce Wayne, is a shy, mild mannered businessman and the last person anyone would expect to be Batman. Meanwhile, Jack Napier (Jack Nicholson) is a high ranking henchman for well respected crime boss Carl Grishom (Jack Palance). When Grishom finds out Napier is involved with his girlfriend Alicia (Jerry Hall), he sets Napier up by sending him to raid the Axis Chemical Plant, only to report him to the police. Of course, Batman has also learned about the job, and is out to stop Napier as well. However, Batman is not about killing people, just about defeating the bad guys. But when he tries to save Napier from falling into a vat of chemicals, the mobster's hand slips and he falls into a vat of slimy, green goo. This makes Batman public enemy number one, as many people believe he's just as dangerous as the criminals he's fighting. Many people assume Napier's dead. However, he turns out to be alive, except his nerves are completely severed, leaving him smiling permanently from ear to ear, his skin has been bleached white (insert Michael Jackson joke here) and his hair has been dyed green. He adopts a new persona: The Joker. Napier kills Grishom and takes over his empire. He plans to poison the good people of Gotham with his Smilex gas, the same chemical that morphed him into The Joker. Batman, of course, will stop at nothing. Also involved in this tangled web is beautiful photo journalist Vicki Vale (Kim Basinger), who is obsessed with finding out who Batman is and is also involved with Bruce Wayne, causing the millionaire to become involved in an intense struggle with duality. To make matters worse, The Joker also has his eye on Vale. Though it may seem like a rather crowded plot, the plotlines mesh together very well and all adds up to a stunning climax that pays homage to "Vertigo" (though I'm not sure if that was what Tim Burton was aiming for).

So, how does everything add up? This film is excellent. Everyone involved put in 100 % effort. Keaton remains the definitive Batman. Don't get me wrong, Christian Bale was great, but I just found Keaton alittle more realistic and believable. Though not as effective as Michelle Pfeiffer, Kim Basinger looked gorgeous and remains the second best Batman leading lady. And of course, Jack Nicholson was brilliant as the Joker. He's the only one who could ever do this part. I feel sorry for Sean Penn, who's might be playing the character in the "Batman Begins" sequel. He's a good actor, but nobody can live up to Nicholson.

Tim Burton brilliantly directed this movie. I feel that his two "Batman" movies are his best works. The special effects and the Oscar winning sets bring the dark feel of the comic books to life. Even if everything else about this film was horrendous, these two elements alone would get me to watch this film alone. And of course, there's Danny Elfman's amazing score. This is Elfman's best score. I hope they find a way to bring it back into the new "Batman" franchise. The Prince music is also great, especially "Partyman" and the smash hit "Batdance".

If you enjoyed "Batman Begins", then you must see "Batman" (and "Batman Returns") since it is every bit as good as the new one. Either way, all three rank among the best superhero movies ever made.

For BR (rating: 5 stars):

It seemed unaccomplishable, but Tim Burton made a sequel to his 1989 masterwork "Batman" and came up with a sequel that was even better than the original. I initially wrote that the first one was the best, however, I find myself watching "Batman Returns" a hell of a lot more than that one. I still love the first one, but I feel this one was better.

"Batman Returns" follows the Dark Knight (Michael Keaton in another top notch performance) trying to stop not one, not two, but three villians this time around. First there's the sinister, sewer-dwelling Penguin (real name: Oswald Cobblepot) (Danny DeVito in a role he was born to play), a groteseque, birdlike man who with the help of corrupt businessman Max Shreck (a brilliantly cast Christopher Walken), has fooled Gotham into thinking he is a lonely man looking for love. The citizens buy his sob story and Max and Oswald start a campaign to get the Mayor of Gotham out of office and have Oswald be mayor. And there's the sizzling, vengeful Catwoman (Michelle Pfeiffer, easily the best of all of Batman's leading ladies in terms of acting as well as sex appeal), the former Selina Kyle, a bitter former secretary who was supposedly killed by Max Shreck (her boss) when she found out about his plan to poison Gotham's energy supply (which Shreck plans to carry out when Oswald becomes mayor). Add to that Batman's alter ego Bruce Wayne becoming romantically involved with Kyle (the real Catwoman), and you definitely got a real barnburner on your hands. It's nonstop thrills and excitement that only Burton can provide, and it all culminates in an unforgettable sewer showdown.

The real reason I loved this film was that it was much darker and had an even greater comic book feel to it. The first one was dark, but Jack Nicholson's Joker brought a certain lightlness to it that kept it from getting too dark and depressing. That approach would not have worked for the first film of the series. However, it made much more sense to add a darker approach to the sequel, and Burton did it perfectly. The cast delivers excelent performances (Keaton is even better here than in the last one), especially Pfeiffer, who steals the show as Catwoman. Though the Academy Awards don't generally consider comic book/superhero movies for major awards, I felt Michelle Pfeiffer deserved consideration for Best Actress for her role. It's a stretch, but then again who expected Marissa Tomei to be nominated (let alone win) for "My Cousin Vinny"? Stranger things have happened.

As much as I love the first "Batman", I have to say this one is the best "Batman" movie (better than "Begins") as well as perhaps best superhero movie ever, with "Batman" and "Batman Begins" tying for a close second. It's a shame that Tim Burton handed the reigns over to Joel Schumacher, who nearly destroyed the series. It's a shame that Christian Bale and Christopher Nolan weren't making films in 1995.

For BF (rating: 2 stars):

Burgess Meredith one said in "Grumpier Old Men", "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see what gets filled up first". This phrase easily applies to "Batman Begins", the third film in the "Batman" series and the first directed by Joel Schumacher. In other words, no matter how hard you wish to find something of value or enjoyment out of this film, you will always comeup empty.

"Batman Forever" finds our hero (Val Kilmer) battling two formidable foes, Two-Face (Tommy Lee Jones), a former district attorney who became disfigured thanks to Batman (at least according to him) and decides the fate of his prey with one flip of a coin, and The Riddler (Jim Carrey), a crazed scientist bent on controlling people's minds and reading their thoughts and stealing their intelligence. Plus, Batman has a new girlfriend, Dr. Chase Meridean (Nicole Kidman), and also a sidekick, Dick Grayson, aka Robin (Chris O'Donnell). However, despite a workable story and an outstanding cast (Kilmer and O'Donnell not withstanding), this film falls miserably flat.

One aspect that fails is Schumacher's attempt to brighten up Gotham City. Gone is the dark, sinister, crime-ridden city that was in "Batman" and "Batman Returns". Tim Burton's gothic vision has been turned into a colorful metropolis rather than a violent hellhole. One thinks that since Burton was actually involved in this film (he was the producer) there would be at least a trace of gothic, but no! Burton and Warner Brothers gave Schumacher full creative control, allowing him to drive the "Batman" legacy into the ground with this film and 1997's "Batman And Robin" (more on that debacle later).

As I said earlier, the cast is very good. However, that's just going by the big names, rather than the acting. Val Kilmer ties with George Clooney as the worst Batman ever. He can't even deliver his lines when he's in the Batusit half the time! He is stiff and uninteresting, and also does not do Bruce Wayne well, either. In order to play Batman, you have to treat Batman and Bruce Wayne as two separate characters, since their personallities differentiate drastically. Nicole Kidman, while very beautiful int his film, is without a doubt the weakest of all of Batman's girlfriends (Elle MacPherson not withstanding). Chris O'Donnell proved to be a servicable Robin until one line: "Holy Rusted Metal Batamn". Ugh! Why, Joel, why did you have to put thsi line in? While he is a great actor and an Oscar winner, I could never really buy Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face. However, there's one actor who reescues the whole movie from being completely unbearable. The role of The Riddler seemed tailor made for Jim Carrey, much like The Joker was for Jack Nicholson and The Penguin for Danny Devito. Needless, Carrey lives up to all expectations, as he gives an excellent performance as the character. He saves this film from being a one star movie.

Though Carrye is worht watching, I'd suggest renting it before buying it. It is not somethign you'd want to own in your dvd collection if you don't particularly enjoy it. Defintiely a hit or miss affair.

For B & R (rating: 1 star)

When this film was released in 1997, it was immediately judged as a disaster, and many called it the end of Batman. And when you watch "Batman & Robin", it's no question why: this film is, to say the least, dreadful. Schumacher took all the bad elements of "Batman Forever" and put even more emphasis on them: the bad cast, the campiness (seriously, this film makes "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" seem like "Citizen Kane") and the transformation of Gotham from a sinister underworld into a metroploitan discoteque.

In this fourth entry in the series, Batman (George Clooney) and Robin (a returning Chris O'Donnell) battle new enemies: the cold-hearted (no pun intended) Mr. Freeze and the venemous temptress Poison Ivy (Uma Thurman, the least attractive and least talented of all Batman's leading ladies). They also add a new member to the team, Batgirl (Alicia Silverstone, who manages to be above average eye candy in this otherwise unenjoyable flick). Put these lifeless elements altogether, and you have one of the worst movies ever made.

As I said, the cast is mercifully awful. Clooney is the worst Batman and Bruce Wayne ever. He is uncapable of capturing any depth or emotion for the character(s). For a good example of this, which as he smiles when he delivers the news that Alfred (Michael Gough) is dying. Chris O'Donnell reprises his role as Robin and he's worse than before. He is flacid and utterly annoying. Alicia Silverstone, while something to look at, cannot act. She is terrible. Uma Thurman never really grabbed my attention either. And then there's Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze. Well, like Danny DeVito when he was cast as the Penguin, physically the Govenator is perfect to play the bulky Mr. Freeze. However, as far as acting goes, he's about as appealing as a dead cockroach. Add to that an endless string of horrible one-liners like "You're not sending me to the cooler" and "let's kick some ice", and you've got the film's worst villian ever. This is really sad because Mr. Freeze is possibly Batman's most deep and interesting foe. Unlike the criminal Joker or the outcast Penguin, Mr. Freeze, was once a well respected member of society, a world famous doctor. Hpwever, he went insane when he was unable to cure his wife from MacGregor's Syndrome, so he cryogenically froze in hopes she would come back again. When he fell into a freezing vat of liquid, he became mad at how Gotham left him and his wife to die and he went out to seek revenge.

Like "Batman Forever", Gotham has been transformed from a gothic crimebase to a day-glo heaven. It looks like a regular American city. Sheesh, no wonder Tim Burton bolted after co-producing "Batman Forever". His perfect vision was ruined.

If you like cheesy special effects, shallow storytelling (and that's being nice) and flacid acting, than this film is without a doubt for you. But if you enjoy the "Batman" legacy and want something truly gratifying, then get "Batman" and "Batman Returns" on dvd and go see the excellent new movie "Batman Begins". You're lightyears better off, believe me.

[The Chairman]

Here's the one for Begins (5 stars):

I would like to start my review by saying I'm a huge fan of the original, or Tim Burton-Michael Keaton, "Batman" movies. However, I felt that the Joel Schumacker films were lacking in emotional depth as well as quality actors and leaned to heavily in special effects and not on storyline. After the debacle that was 1998's "Batman And Robin", it semmed that the "Batman" series had died. However, a director named Christopher Nolan decided to have a go with reviving the series.

Well, needless to say, Nolan succeeds admirably with "Batman Begins", a prequel of sorts that is every bit as good as "Batman" and "Batman Begins". Nolan really proves him the worthy successor to Burton. Here a few resons why this is the best "Batman" in ages.

*the script is brilliant. It really shows Bruce Wayne's transformation from a man f driven to insanity over the death of his parents into the Dark Knight out to save Gotham City
*the cast is excellent. Christian Bale fits the role of Batman/Bruce Wayne like a glove. He does just as good as Keaton did while adding his own edge to the role. Add to that Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman, Katie Holmes, Michael Caine (who in my opinion should have been the original Alfed in the Burton films) and especially Gary Oldman (who plays Commisioner Gordon (here a chief) to a tee and also has the best line in the movie ("I gotta get me one of those")), you have the best and most talented cast since "Batman Returns"
*there's the right balance between focus on special effects and focus on storyline. They intertwine perfectly here, a stark contrast to the overblown "Batman Forever" and "Batman And Robin"
*the ending is absolutely perfect. It won't tell you exactly what happens but I can tell you that many fans will be delighted that it means a sequel just may well be in the works.

These are just a few of the reasons why this ranks along with the first two "Batman's" as one of the greatest super hero films ever. There is pretty much nothing wrong with it. The only things like about I didn't like were this.

*there were one or two parts that I didn't understand. They were nothing major and not worth mentioning
*lack of a big star as the main villian. Part of the whole reason that the first two films in the series worked is because they always got a really good, famous (ie, as or more famous than the one who plays "Batman") actor to play the villian. Jack Nicholson (as the Joker) and Danny DeVito (the Penguin) were especially excellent. Heck, even Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey were good in their respective roles (Two Face and the Riddler). (I never liked Uma Thruman and Arnold Schwarzenegger). Liam Neeson was a villian, but not the main villian. The main villian, the scarecrow, was played by an actor whose name I don't even know.

Other than these unimportant complaints, this is an excellent movie. If you see only one film this year, make it this one.

[Kevin Roegele]

1. Batman Returns (1992)
2. Batman (1989)
3. Batman Forever (1995)
4. Batman Begins (2005)
5. Batman the Movie (1966)
6. Batman & Robin (1997)

[Mister J]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman Forever


96. Abomination '97

[Milkman95]

1. Batman Begins, easily. After watching the other one's again multiple times, BB just has the better story, acting, and has heart.
2. Batman
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman & Robin
6. Batman 1966

If MOTP can be counted, I'd put that tied with BB...........

[Cain]

Well the title said "Batfilms" not "Live action Batfilms" :)
I don't have time to go into detail & review the films right now so I'll just drop my list.

1) Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm
2) Batman Returns
3) BATMAN
4) Batman Begins
5) Batman Forever

[Two-Face]

1. Batman Begins-finally someone understood the character who is not second supporting character to his villains, Ra's Al Ghul and The Scarecrow weren't over the top with cheesey lines. It was all about Batman himself. When Batman sneeked behing the thug whisper saying "here" Gordon and batman meet in the rooftop and shows Joker callingcard awsome 9/10

2. Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm - Again other great Batman movie before BB was released this was my favourite Bat-movie still is after BB, Bruce falling in love with a woman turned out to be The Phantasm all long. 8/10

3. Batman (1989) - This is great movie by Tim Burton but he heavily focused on The Joker he nearly forgot about Batman. Nicholson had the best lines in the movie with Keaton been supporting role when suppose to be about title character. There are great moments opening scene with Dark Knight saying "I'm Batman" Batman crushing though the museum window saving Vicki with Batmobile been chased by the Joker goons great stuff. 7/10

4. Batman Forever - If Joel Schumacher went with Burton style and filmed what Janet Batcher wrote without Akiva Goldsman adding this movies could been better then Burton's Bat-movies. The opening scene with Bruce suiting up and then Batman trying to stop Two-Face, Schumacher should have used Two-Face as main villain with Riddler as supporting character. 7/10

5. Batman Returns - This good movie by Tim Burton, it seemed Returns wasn't sequel to original movie like Gotham changed a lot. I like Bruce waiting in Wayne Manor and Batman looking ahead from the top of building. I though Max Shrack was waste of space Harvey Dent should been in Returns. 6/10

[Carter]

Batman Begins
Batman
Batman Returns
MOTP
BAtman Forever
Batman 1940's movie serials
Batman 1966
Any fan film


















Batman and Robin

[Tobiaswins]

Here is my order.


#1.) BATMAN BEGINS.: This movie plain and simple just rocked! Awesome acting, Awesome Action, Awesome story, it really brought Batman to life, and in a way, you almost get inside Batman's head. Batman is the main character, it's all about batman, and yet there was still plenty of room for the villians ("shoemaker I hope your takeing notes"). Overall the best Batman to date!

#2.) Batman 89. :This movie was great, Keaton was great, and the Joker was great. The only problem was that the Joker outshined Batman, but that's mainly because of Jack Nicholson's performance. This movie had such a great impact on the General public, because a lot of people never touched a Batman Comic and probobly had most of their Batman memories from the 1960's show, I know I did. And then Batman 89 came out, and really took people by surprise, most people were probobly waiting for a good Batman movie to come around to erase those memories of
POW! ZAP! ZOWIE!, and this movie did just that. So this comes in 2nd behind Batman Begins.

#3.) Batman Returns. :I got mixed feelings about this one, Batman was great, Catwoman was great, the penguin was..well..okay. The Gothic feel to the movie was very good. However the whole thing with the huge rubber duckie and penguins with Rockets on their backs attacking the city was kinda lame. This movie was okay, not bad, but not great either.
Batman Returns places 3rd.

#4.) Batman Forever. :This was a bad movie period. I can only think of a few good things about it. There were so many dumb things about the movie, it really seems like a 10 year old wrote it at times. Shoemaker really screwed this one up. That's why this movie comes in at 4th.

#5.) Batman and Robin. : And coming in at dead last
("even though it doesn't deserve it.") Is Batman and Robin, and unlike Batman Forever, I can't even think of a single good thing about it, not a single thing. This movie was just CRAP CRAP CRAP, way to go Shoemaker!
This Crapfest comes in dead last.

Well there are my reviews, feel free to disagree with me if you want, it's all good.

peace. :cool:

[Spidey-Bat]

(spacing is significant)

1. Batman 2. Batman Begins
3. Batman Returns

4. Batman Forever




























5. Batman & Robin.

[Kmack]

The BEST
1. Batman Begins
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman (1989)
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman and Robin
6. Batman (1966)

My Personal Favorites
1. Batman Returns
2. Batman Begins
3. Batman (1989)

[Mr.E.Nygma]

1.b89,br,bf,bb
2.b&r

[Wattshout]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman (1989) / Batman Forever
3. Batman (1966)
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman and Robin

[Sabotage8475]

This is easy:

Batman Returns
Batman
Batman Begins
Um..

Batman Forever?
Batman & Robin?

[Tornado]

Tough:

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman and Robin

[jacob301]

1) Batman Returns A+
2) Batman A-
3) Batman Begins C+
4) Batman Forever D+
5) B&R F

JACOB

[Voyeur]

Batman Begins (A+)...Dark, chilling, intriguing, brilliant cast, smart script. Finally, the Batman I know and love!


Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (B-)...A decent representation of the animated series, although many of the episodes surpass this film!

Batman '89 (C+)...Terrible script, questionable overall decision-making, but at least they brought Batman to the big-screen!

Batman '66 (C)...Hey, it was camp and made no excuses or apologies!

Batman Returns (D)...Selina Kyle brought to life by cats? Penguin playing around on a miniature Batmobile?

Batman & Robin (F)...JB24 has a great point, it's so bad it's almost funny!

Batman Forever (F-)...I used to rank this higher than B&R but the film is dull and stupid and what they did with Two-Face is unforgiveable! Of course B&R is guilty of the same thing, but this was more disappointing!

[Guason]

What a ridiculous post the last one was.

1.- Batman Returns
2.- Batman Mask of the Phantasm
3.- Batman A man who dresses up like a bat at night to scare the hell out of criminals? A man who falls into acid and suddenly becomes a clown who hates beauty and believes himself to be an artist?
4.- Batman Begins A man who´s afraid of bats but ends dressing like a bat? A man who always tells his evil plans to the hero? A man who is a pussy and wears a mask to scare people?
5.- Batman Forever
6.- Batman & Robin

Don´t get me wrong, It´s just I found the last post to be so ridiculous.
I like all of them except Batman and Robin which I don´t even hate.

[Voyeur]

Don´t get me wrong, It´s just I found the last post to be so ridiculous.
That's just the way I feel about the films...I believe that is the point of this particular thread. I seem to be able to disagree with other's without calling their posts ridiculous.

[Spidey-Bat]

Batman '89 (C+)...Terrible script, questionable overall decision-making, but at least they brought Batman to the big-screen!

B89 had a decent script. If you think it was bad, you should have seen the original one.

Batman Returns (D)...Selina Kyle brought to life by cats? Penguin playing around on a miniature Batmobile?

Watch the movie again. She survives the fall and isn't brought to life by cats.

Batman Forever (F-)...I used to rank this higher than B&R but the film is dull and stupid and what they did with Two-Face is unforgiveable! Of course B&R is guilty of the same thing, but this was more disappointing!

First, There is no F-. You can't get below failing. BF IS a better move than B&R. BF's villains were much more tolerable than Awnold Freeze and thug Bane.

[Voyeur]

B89 had a decent script. If you think it was bad, you should have seen the original one.

The dialogue in particular never rang true for me.

Watch the movie again. She survives the fall and isn't brought to life by cats.

First of all, I don't think I can bring myself to watch it again, secondly she falls from an impossible height...cat's from everywhere start to lick her fingers and face (it's been a while so let me know if I'm wrong) as she starts to twitch and revive...then becomes a slightly different person. Whether the bring her back to life or not, it's all a bit supernatural for me.

First, There is no F-. You can't get below failing. BF IS a better move than B&R. BF's villains were much more tolerable than Awnold Freeze and thug Bane.

You never saw the grades I got in Biology class! ;)

Seriously, I give it an F- because in my book BF and B&R both "fail" but BF fails worse, thus I give it an even worse rating than F...Maybe in school there's no such grade, but I'm not in school any more...thank God.

[Guason]

That's just the way I feel about the films...I believe that is the point of this particular thread. I seem to be able to disagree with other's without calling their posts ridiculous.
Like a man who dressed as a bat wasn´t ridiculous enough?
Your post is still ridiculous.

[Guason]

The dialogue in particular never rang true for me.



First of all, I don't think I can bring myself to watch it again, secondly she falls from an impossible height...cat's from everywhere start to lick her fingers and face (it's been a while so let me know if I'm wrong) as she starts to twitch and revive...then becomes a slightly different person. Whether the bring her back to life or not, it's all a bit supernatural for me.



You never saw the grades I got in Biology class! ;)

Seriously, I give it an F- because in my book BF and B&R both "fail" but BF fails worse, thus I give it an even worse rating than F...Maybe in school there's no such grade, but I'm not in school any more...thank God.
If yo watched again you´d notice several awakenings break her fall, the re-born is metaphorical, Why am I saying this to close minded guy who rejects to see more than what´s showed? It´s either ridiculous or awesome for you.

[Voyeur]

If yo watched again you´d notice several awakenings break her fall, the re-born is metaphorical, Why am I saying this to close minded guy who rejects to see more than what´s showed? It´s either ridiculous or awesome for you.
Close minded? I gave the movie plenty of chances when it came out. But, frankly, I've seen enough. You can't seriously watch that scene with the cats and think that Burton didn't intend some degree of supernatuality? Why did all the cats show up out of nowhere?

And Ridiculous? I believe you may have me confused with Gay-son...that appears to be HIS favorite word.

[Spidey-Bat]

First of all, I don't think I can bring myself to watch it again, secondly she falls from an impossible height...cat's from everywhere start to lick her fingers and face (it's been a while so let me know if I'm wrong) as she starts to twitch and revive...then becomes a slightly different person. Whether the bring her back to life or not, it's all a bit supernatural for me.

I've done this argument a thousand times. She falls 8-9 stories. She falls 6 before hitting an awning. Then it's 2-3 more. There was snow on the ground aswell. All of those factors make her surviving possible. And another thing to remember, movies aren't supposed to be realistic. Thanks to BB, that's all everyone wants now.


You never saw the grades I got in Biology class! ;)

Seriously, I give it an F- because in my book BF and B&R both "fail" but BF fails worse, thus I give it an even worse rating than F...Maybe in school there's no such grade, but I'm not in school any more...thank God.

There are no F-, but there are Super F's.

[Guason]

And another thing to remember, movies aren't supposed to be realistic. Thanks to BB, that's all everyone wants now.

There are better chances Selina would survive that fall than there are for a microwave which vaporizes water to do nothing to the human body.
In fact people´s falls have been broken before and they have survided because of that, for god´s sake people have survived much worse, not to mention Selina fell on snow.

[Spidey-Bat]

There are better chances Selina would survive that fall than there are for a microwave which vaporizes water to do nothing to the human body.
In fact people´s fall have been broken before and they have survided because of that, not to mention Selina fell on snow.

exactly:up:

[Guason]

exactly:up:
Thanks, don´t believe I have anything against BB because I don´t.
Back to topic Selina never died, she never lost consciousness again in any of her "deaths".
Jett gave Batman & robin a F-, didn´t he?

[Cain]

............

[Cain]

......

[Cain]

There are better chances Selina would survive that fall than there are for a microwave which vaporizes water to do nothing to the human body.


I rarely agree with your posts but that's a pretty valid point :up:

On a side note everybody has their own way of issuing ratings. For instance I rate movies from 1-5 when conventionally it's 1-4. So a scale that features and F- is not neccesarily wrong.

[Guason]

I rarely agree with your posts but that's a pretty valid point :up:

On a side note everybody has their own way of issuing ratings. For instance I rate movies from 1-5 when conventionally it's 1-4. So a scale that features and F- is not neccesarily wrong.
jett used it didn´t he?, I prefer the 1-10 scale, and I rarely post at all I´m always reading your stuff. Awesome I´d say even If I disagree!

[Milkman95]

Too bad that microwave emitter uses "FOCUSED" waves to vaporize an enemies water supply. It's not designed to focus on the water in the human body or anything else for that matter.

Yes, it's still unrealistic but it was explained. Your Selina point couldn't be more wrong. Thanks for playing.......... :p

[Voyeur]

These are all valid points, and perhaps she does survive the fall...I guess what I'm saying is that once she attracts all the cats and they start chewing on her fingers and climbing on her face, leading her to twitch, her eyes to roll back and then she snaps back to life, er, I mean consciousness...well it seems a little more Burton than Batman to me.

But some people like that, I guess.

[Spidey-Bat]

These are all valid points, and perhaps she does survive the fall...I guess what I'm saying is that once she attracts all the cats and they start chewing on her fingers and climbing on her face, leading her to twitch, her eyes to roll back and then she snaps back to life, er, I mean consciousness...well it seems a little more Burton than Batman to me.

But some people like that, I guess.

She starts attracting the cats? Please. Cats are curious creatures. If you saw a body fall 9 stories, you'd check it out too. The cats nibbling at her is the same for a 12 year old boy poking a dead opposum in the street with a stick. It's more realistic than submerging a man in a rejuvinating pit.

Too bad that microwave emitter uses "FOCUSED" waves to vaporize an enemies water supply. It's not designed to focus on the water in the human body or anything else for that matter.

Yes, it's still unrealistic but it was explained. Your Selina point couldn't be more wrong. Thanks for playing..........

Focused microwaves, like that makes it even more realistic. It's easier to believe a woman could survive a fall than a machine be stolen from sea and used to evaporate a posioned water supply. And how convenient is it that a major water piping runs under an asylum? Hell, why the hell is an asylum in the middle of the city?

[Voyeur]

It's more realistic than submerging a man in a rejuvinating pit.
Hmm...can't really argue with that...probably why I've never been the biggest fan of al Ghul or Clayface! But al Ghul was pretty cool in BB.

[Two-Face]

Ra's Al Ghul was a badass dude in Begins!

[Milkman95]

She starts attracting the cats? Please. Cats are curious creatures. If you saw a body fall 9 stories, you'd check it out too. The cats nibbling at her is the same for a 12 year old boy poking a dead opposum in the street with a stick. It's more realistic than submerging a man in a rejuvinating pit.

Focused microwaves, like that makes it even more realistic. It's easier to believe a woman could survive a fall than a machine be stolen from sea and used to evaporate a posioned water supply. And how convenient is it that a major water piping runs under an asylum? Hell, why the hell is an asylum in the middle of the city?

I said it's still unrealistic, but there is an explanation for it, which is the description of the device, which is the word "Focused". A woman falling several stories, NOT 9 stories is less realistic, sorry. Major water pipes, sewage, electricity, telecommunications, as well as other utilities are underneath EVERY major city. Why is it unrealistic that these pipes are underneath a major asylum or hospital? Should it not have electricity? Plumbing? Heat? Hilarious.........

Arkham Asylum is isolated on an island in the Gotham River. It's also in the Narrows, which is very bad area - I don't have a problem with a CITY hospital being within city limits..........

[Spidey-Bat]

I said it's still unrealistic, but there is an explanation for it, which is the description of the device, which is the word "Focused". A woman falling 60 stories is less realistic, sorry. Major water pipes, sewage, electricity, telecommunications, as well as other utilities are underneath EVERY major city. Why is it unrealistic that these pipes are underneath a major asylum or hospital. Should it not have electricity? Plumbing? Heat? Hilarious.........

Arkham Asylum is isolated on an island in the Gotham River. It's also in the Narrows, which is very bad area - I don't have a problem with a CITY hospital being within city limits..........

You're right, a woman falling 60 stories is less realistic than a focused microwave emmitter with poor security around it. She didn't fall 60 stores, it was 8-9 (yes, I played the scene were she fell frame by frame and counted the windows to prove all naysayers wrong). Does it need an explanation when she comes concious again? I saw the movie when I was 3, I understood perfectly she survived.

My point about Arkham is why is there such easy access to it? And why does that water also feed into the city? How stupid do they have to be to have water that spreads throughout the island under an inch of concrete in a weak pipe that psychos and lunatics and poison or pollute?

Arkham is an asylum, a hospital for insane criminals. Not pregnant women and flu victims. It's obviously the type of city that belongs on the out skirts of a major establishment. Having an asylum in the center of Gotham is like putting Riker's in the middle of Times Square.

[Milkman95]

You're right, a woman falling 60 stories is less realistic than a focused microwave emmitter with poor security around it. She didn't fall 60 stores, it was 8-9 (yes, I played the scene were she fell frame by frame and counted the windows to prove all naysayers wrong). Does it need an explanation when she comes concious again? I saw the movie when I was 3, I understood perfectly she survived.

My point about Arkham is why is there such easy access to it? And why does that water also feed into the city? How stupid do they have to be to have water that spreads throughout the island under an inch of concrete in a weak pipe that psychos and lunatics and poison or pollute?

Arkham is an asylum, a hospital for insane criminals. Not pregnant women and flu victims. It's obviously the type of city that belongs on the out skirts of a major establishment. Having an asylum in the center of Gotham is like putting Riker's in the middle of Times Square.

Nine stories is still almost 100 feet, so I still think it's more unrealistic. And no, it doesn't need an explanation just like the emitter doesn't need one - it was explained, with the key word being "focused".

Dr. Jonathon Crane is the head psychologist at Arkham, so yes, he would have access to the basement to dig through the floor into the water mains. Since Arkham is on an island on the Gotham River, yes, it would have water mains feeding into the city and suburbs - it's in the middle of water. I could go over to my local city, go down into a sewer, take a hammer and punch through a water pipe if I wanted to. Mentally impaired and insane patients are classified as being sick, or having a disease, so that type of hospital will pretty much have the same needs as a regular one. Time Square is in the middle of the city, surrounded by other buildings. Arkham is on an island, surrounded by water and slums. Big difference.

You are aware this is a fictional city and story, right?

[Spidey-Bat]

Nine stories is still almost 100 feet, so I still think it's more unrealistic. And no, it doesn't need an explanation just like the emitter doesn't need one - it was explained, with the key word being "focused".

Dr. Jonathon Crane is the head psychologist at Arkham, so yes, he would have access to the basement to dig through the floor into the water mains. Since Arkham is on an island on the Gotham River, yes, it would have water mains feeding into the city and suburbs - it's in the middle of water. I could go over to my local city, go down into a sewer, take a hammer and punch through a water pipe if I wanted to. Mentally impaired and insane patients are classified as being sick, or having a disease, so that type of hospital will pretty much have the same needs as a regular one. Time Square is in the middle of the city, surrounded by other buildings. Arkham is on an island, surrounded by water and slums. Big difference.

You are aware this is a fictional city and story, right?

She didn't fall the full 100 feet. As I stated earlier, she hit an awning which broke the initial fall, then 2 more which futher slowed her speed and the snow also helped make it less impactive.

Yes. I am aware of it. I'm using it as an example of also being unrealistic as well as unfaithful.

[SatanBurger]

1. Batman Begins. Brilliant, from set design to cinematography to story dynamics. Not to mention far and away the best acting of any superhero film. The villains have real menace, and the heroes have real substance. For once Batman's origins and motivations are given their due. Everything was just spot on. Beyond spot on.

2. Mask of the Phantasm. The only animated movie I rank. Everything I like about the Batman character filtered into a great story. Joker is perfect, and the music is brilliant.

3. Batman '89. Nicholson is the highlight. Great portrayal there. One of the great performances of the late eighties. Keaton is good too, and I love the eccentricity of his character, even though I don't consider it all that similar to any Batman I know. Gets a little cheesy at times.

4. Batman '66. Hilarious. Pow! Zang! The scene in which Batman can't find anywhere to toss the bomb gets me everytime.

5. Batman Returns. Gets a lot cheesy at times. I can't find much to like here, aside from Devito's Penguin. It's all a little too over the top. Walken is cool, but his character is so evil he borders on James Bond camp. And I may be one of the few who thinks Burton's Catwoman is absolutely atrocious. Just terrible. Terrible one liners, terrible build-up. The monologue scenes from Selina with the introduction of her character are so forced and cliched I can't sit through them without cringing.

6. Batman and Robin. Awful but at times a little funny for sheer stupidity. The Bat-Card in particular is a nice touch.

7. Batman Forever. Just as bad as Batman and Robin, but with much less to laugh at. That and it tosses one of the best supervillains aside like cannon fodder. Two-Face must be redeemed.

[Voyeur]

I think you make excellent points SatanBurger and my order is the same!

[Guason]

Walken is cool, but his character is so evil he borders on James Bond camp.
You sure you watched Batman Begins, I mean that Ra´s Al Gul:down
Besides your point is stupid, the man was a complete facade. He helped Gotham, he did good things to help people. He makes oswald believe he´s helping him because he cares about him. The guy was smart (definitely smarter than ra´s), a dirty businessman who tends to abuse power (there are so many in this world) a very human villain I´d say.

[Guason]

You're right, a woman falling 60 stories is less realistic than a focused microwave emmitter with poor security around it. She didn't fall 60 stores, it was 8-9 (yes, I played the scene were she fell frame by frame and counted the windows to prove all naysayers wrong). Does it need an explanation when she comes concious again? I saw the movie when I was 3, I understood perfectly she survived.

My point about Arkham is why is there such easy access to it? And why does that water also feed into the city? How stupid do they have to be to have water that spreads throughout the island under an inch of concrete in a weak pipe that psychos and lunatics and poison or pollute?

Arkham is an asylum, a hospital for insane criminals. Not pregnant women and flu victims. It's obviously the type of city that belongs on the out skirts of a major establishment. Having an asylum in the center of Gotham is like putting Riker's in the middle of Times Square.
It´s also like putting a microscope in the center of Gotham, and we all thought BB had learned from past mistakes.

[Guason]

Ra's Al Ghul was a badass dude in Begins!
So badass he told all of his plans to the hero:ghost:

[Guason]

And I may be one of the few who thinks Burton's Catwoman is absolutely atrocious. Just terrible. Terrible one liners, terrible build-up. The monologue scenes from Selina with the introduction of her character are so forced and cliched I can't sit through them without cringing.

And I thought Halle´s CINO had been a disaster, at least Selina reacts like a human after what happens to her. I guess I´ll just stick with the mediocre catwomen from the comics which are always better and can´t be improved.:cool:

[Dangerous]

89- 8/10
BR- 7/10
BF- 6/10
B&R -3/10
BB -9/10 or 10/10

[Mr. Socko]

Batman '89- 9.5/10
Batman Begins- 9/10
Batman Returns- 9/10
Batman Forever- 8/10
Batman & Robin- 6.5/10

[El Payaso]

Too bad that microwave emitter uses "FOCUSED" waves to vaporize an enemies water supply. It's not designed to focus on the water in the human body or anything else for that matter.

Yes, it's still unrealistic but it was explained. Your Selina point couldn't be more wrong. Thanks for playing.......... :p

Ok so:

You were a Milkman. One day you drank a radioactive milk bottle that made you went bananas and write posts where you defend some implausible scene over other equally implausible scene by saying 'it was verbally explained' so for you if a doctor in the movie was saying 'A woman can survive a fall if 17 cats come and breath directly into her mouth' then it's pretty ok.

So, I suppose that since I made up an explanation for you, your post make sense somehow. Good, I didn't waste my time.

Focused Microwaves! Does that make my steak juicy but keep potatoes dry?

[Milkman95]

Ok so:

You were a Milkman. One day you drank a radioactive milk bottle that made you went bananas and write posts where you defend some implausible scene over other equally implausible scene by saying 'it was verbally explained' so for you if a doctor in the movie was saying 'A woman can survive a fall if 17 cats come and breath directly into her mouth' then it's pretty ok.

So, I suppose that since I made up an explanation for you, your post make sense somehow. Good, I didn't waste my time.

Focused Microwaves! Does that make my steak juicy but keep potatoes dry?

In my mind you can't even compare the two Skippy.

And yes, if it was verbally explained, it would have been better, thanks for the further clarification, I don't have to explain it now.......

[El Payaso]

You're welcome. Radioactive milk can explain your nonsense.




In your mind.

[Nightwing1977]

Here my list from best to worst. Don't call my post or what I feel is better "stupid", like some have post about other's opinions. :hulk:


1.) Batman Begins (Finally, the perfect Batman movie that WB should have done 16 yrs. ago. Great story & casting, with Bale proving he don't need to be a big blockbuster star like Keaton to nail the part. He even has "it" more than Keaton.)

2.) Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (The true Batman cartoon. They really deal with his origin perfect. I dig how they the Phantasm's idenity was not who we suspect.)

3.) Batman89 (Seen this in theater when I was a kid & enjoyed it. This one prove Keaton can be a serious Batman, despite some flaw with him in the part. It also was crap to make Batman the supporting character with Joker as the lead. Also, Jack was more like well...Jack instead of Joker. This also gave us the classic line "Where does he get those wonderful toys?". Can't top that thought. ;))

4.) Batman Forever (For some reason, I thought it was kinda cool they brought in Robin. Despite the fact they hired a 20ish guy instead of some 15 yrs. old kid. The costume was neat, but the nipples & codpiece ruin it from being cooler. Val Kilmer was a great Bruce Wayne, but his Batman was so-so. The Robin's origin was great with some minor change.)

5.) Batman Return (The one that Burton starting to push the weirdness factor that don't belong in a Batman movie. It also starting to get a little campy. Such as Selina falling long stories off the building & then being brought back to life from cats which is lame. Same for Penguin's big duck vehicle & his penguins having missles on their back. Hated that Burton also has Batman kill without remorse.)

6.) Batman & Robin (Do I need to explain more? :p)

[Milkman95]

You're welcome. Radioactive milk can explain your nonsense.




In your mind.

Must be too much Mexican food making you have a lower than normal IQ..........oh well, not everybody can be logical..........

[kit1982]

1) Batman Begins
2) mask of the phantasm
3) Batman
4) B&R
5) batman forever - never has a film disappointed me this much, the riddler wearing a tiara, the whole sucking up your IQ song, Jim Carrey doing an insult of a Frank Gorshin impression . The worst part is that Alfred lost all integrity when he fell for the "twick or tweat" gag.

[El Payaso]

Must be too much Mexican food making you have a lower than normal IQ..........oh well, not everybody can be logical..........

Is not that. it's just I didn't warm it with "FOCUSED microwaves", logic boy. :D

[DarkKnightJRK]

1. Batman Returns
*Sees pissed off fanboys throwing veggies, grabs umbrella to deflect* Why is it there's always someone who brings eggs and tomatos to a speech?! :p
Seriously, not only is it currently the best Batman movie, it's also the best MOVIE out of the five.

For those who say, "it makes no sense! There's no explanation!" Shut the f**k up. Read between the lines. "Penguin was raised by penguins!" Shut the f**k up, Red Triangle gang raised Penguin, didn't you catch when Batman was reading the newpaper clippings? "Catwoman was revived by cats!" Shut the f**k up. The awnings and the snow broke her fall, gave her a nice concussion. That, plus all the cats and the shock of her boss throwing her out caused her to snap. "Missle launching penguins!" Shut the f**k up. Microwave emmiter, need I say more?

"Batman wasn't in it!" Shut the f**k up. Batman had just as many scenes as Penguin and Catwoman. Plus, he practically invented the villians. Selina Kyle was thrown out of a window because she found out some s**t when she was preping for Shreck's meeting with BRUCE WAYNE. It was BATMAN'S interference that made the people turn against Penguin and forced Penguin to give up on his humanity and go ahead with his children sceme.

Plus, the villains themselves were supposed to represent different aspects of Batman: Shreck was the powerfull businessman with evilish tendacies, Penguin was the f**ked up man-child, and Catwoman was the vengefull vigilantie. In the end, all of them are either, as Catwoman once put it (which is the irony, because she's the only surviving one), dead or deeply resentfull.

Batman Returns is a beautiful, poingant film that's definately the best Batman film yet.

[SatanBurger]

You sure you watched Batman Begins, I mean that Ra´s Al Gul:down
Besides your point is stupid, the man was a complete facade. He helped Gotham, he did good things to help people. He makes oswald believe he´s helping him because he cares about him. The guy was smart (definitely smarter than ra´s), a dirty businessman who tends to abuse power (there are so many in this world) a very human villain I´d say.

First of all, don't be a pain in the ass. Answer once to a post and edit, if need be. Don't flood the thread with twenty consecutive replies. It makes you look like a moron.

Second, I see your point, I just don't agree with it. You can say a character's smart all you want, but if he's not smart, he's not smart. Film is all about execution. Ever read a book without pictures? There are more convincing ways of portraying a character's menace than goofy monologues and tired cliches. I'm not gonna debate which is the more effective villain between Walken and Ras, because they're not on the same level. Walken's a cartoon cut-out. Which is fitting for 90% of Burton's godawful tripe.

[Robin91939]

(7pt scale)
A=93-100
B=85-92
C=77-84
D=69-76
F= 0-68

As Films:
1.) BATMAN BEGINS........95% A
2.) BATMAN...................88% B
3.) BATMAN RETURNS......83% C
4.) BATMAN FOREVER......77% C-
5.) BATMAN AND ROBIN.....62% F


As Adaptations:
1.) BATMAN BEGINS.......90% A
2.) BATMAN..................83% C
3.) BATMAN FOREVER.....79% C
4.) BATMAN & ROBIN......70% D
5.) BATMAN RETURNS......50% F

Overall
1.) BATMAN BEGINS.........94% A
2.) BATMAN....................89% B
3.) BATMAN FOREVER.......84% C+
4.) BATMAN RETURNS.......82% C
5.) BATMAN & ROBIN........68% F

-R

[Two-Face]

1. Batman Begins-finally someone understood the character who is not second supporting character to his villains, Ra's Al Ghul and The Scarecrow weren't over the top with cheesey lines. It was all about Batman himself. When Batman sneeked behing the thug whisper saying "here" Gordon and batman meet in the rooftop and shows Joker callingcard awsome 9/10

2. Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm - Again other great Batman movie before BB was released this was my favourite Bat-movie still is after BB, Bruce falling in love with a woman turned out to be The Phantasm all long. 8/10

3. Batman (1989) - This is great movie by Tim Burton but he heavily focused on The Joker he nearly forgot about Batman. Nicholson had the best lines in the movie with Keaton been supporting role when suppose to be about title character. There are great moments opening scene with Dark Knight saying "I'm Batman" Batman crushing though the museum window saving Vicki with Batmobile been chased by the Joker goons great stuff. 7/10

4. Batman Forever - If Joel Schumacher went with Burton style and filmed what Janet Batcher wrote without Akiva Goldsman adding this movies could been better then Burton's Bat-movies. The opening scene with Bruce suiting up and then Batman trying to stop Two-Face, Schumacher should have used Two-Face as main villain with Riddler as supporting character. 7/10

5. Batman Returns - This good movie by Tim Burton, it seemed Returns wasn't sequel to original movie like Gotham changed a lot. I like Bruce waiting in Wayne Manor and Batman looking ahead from the top of building. I though Max Shrack was waste of space Harvey Dent should been in Returns. 6/10

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman Returns takes place inside Bruce Wayne's head. Catwoman, Max Shreck and the Penguin are all aspects of his personality which attempt to work together but end up in violent conflict. How dark is that? And how clever is that?

Begins is like a DIY guide, How To Become Batman. Or as Variety reviewed it:
"What this incarnation of Batman lacks is theatricality, a sense of showmanship to put over the new approach. Although little jokes and quips are gradually introduced, only slowly does Nolan dare to begin having any fun with the material, and even then far too cautiously. It's not that the film is prosaic, but it is terribly sober, afraid to make grand gestures and build to major payoffs. It's as if, out of a desire to appear smart and not to pander to the large public destined to see the picture, Nolan restrained himself from providing moments that might prove too audience pleasing."

[Kevin Roegele]

the only thing worse than complete garbage a movie can be is mediocre.

LOL. The only thing worst than bad is okay. :up:

[The Chairman]

1. Batman Returns
*Sees pissed off fanboys throwing veggies, grabs umbrella to deflect* Why is it there's always someone who brings eggs and tomatos to a speech?! :p
Seriously, not only is it currently the best Batman movie, it's also the best MOVIE out of the five.

For those who say, "it makes no sense! There's no explanation!" Shut the f**k up. Read between the lines. "Penguin was raised by penguins!" Shut the f**k up, Red Triangle gang raised Penguin, didn't you catch when Batman was reading the newpaper clippings? "Catwoman was revived by cats!" Shut the f**k up. The awnings and the snow broke her fall, gave her a nice concussion. That, plus all the cats and the shock of her boss throwing her out caused her to snap. "Missle launching penguins!" Shut the f**k up. Microwave emmiter, need I say more?

"Batman wasn't in it!" Shut the f**k up. Batman had just as many scenes as Penguin and Catwoman. Plus, he practically invented the villians. Selina Kyle was thrown out of a window because she found out some s**t when she was preping for Shreck's meeting with BRUCE WAYNE. It was BATMAN'S interference that made the people turn against Penguin and forced Penguin to give up on his humanity and go ahead with his children sceme.

Plus, the villains themselves were supposed to represent different aspects of Batman: Shreck was the powerfull businessman with evilish tendacies, Penguin was the f**ked up man-child, and Catwoman was the vengefull vigilantie. In the end, all of them are either, as Catwoman once put it (which is the irony, because she's the only surviving one), dead or deeply resentfull.

Batman Returns is a beautiful, poingant film that's definately the best Batman film yet.

That was beautiful. You owned. I couldn't have said it better myself.
______________________________

Tim Roth For The Joker
Liev Schrieber For Two - Face
Jeff Goldblum For The Riddler

[Nightwing1977]

1. Batman Returns
*Sees pissed off fanboys throwing veggies, grabs umbrella to deflect* Why is it there's always someone who brings eggs and tomatos to a speech?! :p
Seriously, not only is it currently the best Batman movie, it's also the best MOVIE out of the five.

For those who say, "it makes no sense! There's no explanation!" Shut the f**k up. Read between the lines. "Penguin was raised by penguins!" Shut the f**k up, Red Triangle gang raised Penguin, didn't you catch when Batman was reading the newpaper clippings? "Catwoman was revived by cats!" Shut the f**k up. The awnings and the snow broke her fall, gave her a nice concussion. That, plus all the cats and the shock of her boss throwing her out caused her to snap. "Missle launching penguins!" Shut the f**k up. Microwave emmiter, need I say more?

"Batman wasn't in it!" Shut the f**k up. Batman had just as many scenes as Penguin and Catwoman. Plus, he practically invented the villians. Selina Kyle was thrown out of a window because she found out some s**t when she was preping for Shreck's meeting with BRUCE WAYNE. It was BATMAN'S interference that made the people turn against Penguin and forced Penguin to give up on his humanity and go ahead with his children sceme.

Plus, the villains themselves were supposed to represent different aspects of Batman: Shreck was the powerfull businessman with evilish tendacies, Penguin was the f**ked up man-child, and Catwoman was the vengefull vigilantie. In the end, all of them are either, as Catwoman once put it (which is the irony, because she's the only surviving one), dead or deeply resentfull.

Batman Returns is a beautiful, poingant film that's definately the best Batman film yet.

Are you a sailor or something? :p

And it uncall for to tell people to shut the f' up just because you don't agree with those who give few reasons why they hate it. And microwave emitter is way better than penguins carrying silly little missle. Plus, the microwave thing is not campy either. :D And I disagree Selina survive from snows & other. That just plain silly to survive from a long stories & the snows break the fall. I still say the cats brought her back to life. How else can you explain many cats she don't know just come out of nowhere & move around her? That is pretty lame. Sorry, man. ;)

[DarkKnightJRK]

Are you a sailor or something? :p

Nah, just a potty mouth. :D

And it uncall for to tell people to shut the f' up just because you don't agree with those who give few reasons why they hate it.

And I was giving my counter arguement. I just happen to be a bit explicit. :p

And microwave emitter is way better than penguins carrying silly little missle.

It works for Penguin, because he was essentially a f**ked up little man-child. I don't really mind the Microwave Emmiter stuff, but that's pure psudo-science it's not even funny.

Plus, the microwave thing is not campy either. :D

Well, it's a homage to a campy thing, at least. Remember the '66 movie? Remember the device that the villians were using? It was an evaporating machine.

And I disagree Selina survive from snows & other. That just plain silly to survive from a long stories & the snows break the fall.

The awnings that slowed her fall and the way she landed (more with her back flat) that also show this.

I still say the cats brought her back to life. How else can you explain many cats she don't know just come out of nowhere & move around her? That is pretty lame. Sorry, man. ;)

If anything, she was DYING, and the cats were trying to shock her with adredeline (when they were biting on her fingers and such).

Besides, you want to talk about Begins being faithfull? Change the building with an airplane, take out the cats, and give her amnesia, and that's exactly Catwoman's pre-crisis origin.

[El Payaso]

1. Batman Returns
*Sees pissed off fanboys throwing veggies, grabs umbrella to deflect* Why is it there's always someone who brings eggs and tomatos to a speech?! :p
Seriously, not only is it currently the best Batman movie, it's also the best MOVIE out of the five.

For those who say, "it makes no sense! There's no explanation!" Shut the f**k up. Read between the lines. "Penguin was raised by penguins!" Shut the f**k up, Red Triangle gang raised Penguin, didn't you catch when Batman was reading the newpaper clippings? "Catwoman was revived by cats!" Shut the f**k up. The awnings and the snow broke her fall, gave her a nice concussion. That, plus all the cats and the shock of her boss throwing her out caused her to snap. "Missle launching penguins!" Shut the f**k up. Microwave emmiter, need I say more?

"Batman wasn't in it!" Shut the f**k up. Batman had just as many scenes as Penguin and Catwoman. Plus, he practically invented the villians. Selina Kyle was thrown out of a window because she found out some s**t when she was preping for Shreck's meeting with BRUCE WAYNE. It was BATMAN'S interference that made the people turn against Penguin and forced Penguin to give up on his humanity and go ahead with his children sceme.

Plus, the villains themselves were supposed to represent different aspects of Batman: Shreck was the powerfull businessman with evilish tendacies, Penguin was the f**ked up man-child, and Catwoman was the vengefull vigilantie. In the end, all of them are either, as Catwoman once put it (which is the irony, because she's the only surviving one), dead or deeply resentfull.

Batman Returns is a beautiful, poingant film that's definately the best Batman film yet.

Hehe. Perfect. You said it perfectly.

[Spidey-Bat]

(7pt scale)
A=93-100
B=85-92
C=77-84
D=69-76
F= 0-68

If it's a 7 point scale, why is F 0-68?

JKR, beautifully put about BR. Too bad some people are too ignorant and bias to see that BR is not a bad movie and as faithful as BB.

[Voyeur]

Hmm...I'm not sure you have to be ignorant to dislike a film.

[The Guard]

Lost in all this is the fact that it's an unrealistic character and world to begin with. Anyway, there's nothing physically that implausible about Selina's "descent". People have survived worse.

[Robin91939]

If it's a 7 point scale, why is F 0-68?

JKR, beautifully put about BR. Too bad some people are too ignorant and bias to see that BR is not a bad movie and as faithful as BB.
As a film, I'm actually thinking about putting Returns up, but its just that Begins killed the curve, ya know. So, as a film, i think Returns is probably in the 80-84 region. As an adaptation on the other hand :rolleyes:

-R

[Kevin Roegele]

Anyway, there's nothing physically that implausible about Selina's "descent". People have survived worse.

Exactly. And if you go into a movie called, "Batman Returns" and then complain about something like that then one wonders why you're watching in the first place.

[Spidey-Bat]

As a film, I'm actually thinking about putting Returns up, but its just that Begins killed the curve, ya know. So, as a film, i think Returns is probably in the 80-84 region. As an adaptation on the other hand :rolleyes:

-R

As an Adaptation, none of them deserve an A, or even B.

[Robin91939]

Graded on a curve.

-R

[Thot]

1. Batman Begins

2. Batman Forever

3. Batman '89

4. Batman MOTP

5. Batman '66

6. Batman Returns

7. Batman and Robin

Begins gave us the Dark Knight as the ass kicking urban avenger that he is. Forever delivered the colorful, action hero angle that the others lack. '89 was good, but the Joker dominated and his goons were annoying. Very enjoyable overall though. MOTP was good too. Movie moguls could learn a thing or two from this one. Unpretentious and straightforward superhero action and heroism. The rest?,....meh....

[Nightwing1977]

If it's a 7 point scale, why is F 0-68?

JKR, beautifully put about BR. Too bad some people are too ignorant and bias to see that BR is not a bad movie and as faithful as BB.

I could say the same who see BB as a bad movie are ignorant. But I have classes to call people on that, so I won't call those who dislike BB as one. Just because I dislike BR don't mean I'm ignorant. And I still don't see BR as close to the comic book as BB. BB is the real Batman movie, while BR is more like "Burtonman". ;) :D

And that's still lame to have cats act like aderline or whatever to Selina. It still crap & really an unbeliveable thing.

[El Payaso]

BB is the real Batman movie

How so?
Because you say it? Ebert says it?

Some cheap gimmicks for fans?

[Nightwing1977]

How so?
Because you say it? Ebert says it?

Some cheap gimmicks for fans?

Maybe because it more true to the character & material. And the fact we understand more about what in his mind than what Buron & Schumacher did.

[El Payaso]

So it's because you say and the gimmicks.

[Cain]

Granted in Begins we learn the same amount of facts as we do in Returns & Forever combined. But Burton & Schumacher's movies explored the (key words coming up ) Bruce Wayne character deeper than a lot of people want to give them credit for.

[El Payaso]

Granted in Begins we learn the same amount of facts as we do in Returns & Forever combined. But Burton & Schumacher's movies explored the (key words coming up ) Bruce Wayne character deeper than a lot of people want to give them credit for.

Exactly. Begins, as good as it is, was the 'explain me like I was 6 y.o. please'. Good for people who don't know Batman that much maybe.

[Nightwing1977]

So it's because you say and the gimmicks.

Hey, I'm sure Burton's Batman is good because you & other say it like you said about me liking BB. I got to disagree we learn about Bruce Wayne from Burton & Schmuacher. They treated him as a supporting character & we did not see what in Bruce Wayne's mind. BB the only one to explore both Bruce Wayne & Batman's mind more than what Burton & Schmucaher did. And gimmicks? Please, I'm sure Burton use it with some of you guys saying it like Bob Kane's 1st app. Batman. ;)

[Batwing6655]

1. Batman Returns
*Sees pissed off fanboys throwing veggies, grabs umbrella to deflect* Why is it there's always someone who brings eggs and tomatos to a speech?! :p
Seriously, not only is it currently the best Batman movie, it's also the best MOVIE out of the five.

For those who say, "it makes no sense! There's no explanation!" Shut the f**k up. Read between the lines. "Penguin was raised by penguins!" Shut the f**k up, Red Triangle gang raised Penguin, didn't you catch when Batman was reading the newpaper clippings? "Catwoman was revived by cats!" Shut the f**k up. The awnings and the snow broke her fall, gave her a nice concussion. That, plus all the cats and the shock of her boss throwing her out caused her to snap. "Missle launching penguins!" Shut the f**k up. Microwave emmiter, need I say more?

"Batman wasn't in it!" Shut the f**k up. Batman had just as many scenes as Penguin and Catwoman. Plus, he practically invented the villians. Selina Kyle was thrown out of a window because she found out some s**t when she was preping for Shreck's meeting with BRUCE WAYNE. It was BATMAN'S interference that made the people turn against Penguin and forced Penguin to give up on his humanity and go ahead with his children sceme.

Plus, the villains themselves were supposed to represent different aspects of Batman: Shreck was the powerfull businessman with evilish tendacies, Penguin was the f**ked up man-child, and Catwoman was the vengefull vigilantie. In the end, all of them are either, as Catwoman once put it (which is the irony, because she's the only surviving one), dead or deeply resentfull.

Batman Returns is a beautiful, poingant film that's definately the best Batman film yet.

well said, well said! :up: :up:

Batman Returns = AWSOME

anyone who says otherwise, f*** you. :)

[batman strikes]

Batman Begins (2005)
Batman(1989)
Batman Forever (1995)
Batman Returns (1992)
Batman & Robin (1997

[Nightwing1977]

well said, well said! :up: :up:

Batman Returns = AWSOME

anyone who says otherwise, f*** you. :)

Why the hell do you & some other folks say "f" you to those who don't like BR? That is real pathetic. Some of you guys should be punish for saying such things just because you don't agree with 'em. :rolleyes:

[El Payaso]

Why the hell do you & some other folks say "f" you to those who don't like BR? That is real pathetic. Some of you guys should be punish for saying such things just because you don't agree with 'em. :rolleyes:

And you take it for serious...

[GOD90]

1. Batman Begins-This was an excellent movie. Great acting by everyone except Katie Holmes. Good action & a realistic plot. The only thing I didn't like was that some scenes stretched a little too long.

2. Batman-This movie was too focused on Joker. Jack Nicholson was great though. Keaton and Basinger had some good chemistry

3. Batman Returns-Devito & Pfeifer's perfromances took away from Keaton's great one. This movie despite it's dark nature had some Schumacher-ness in it with the huge rubber duckie & the poenguin missiles.

4. Batman Forever-This movie is boring. Good but boring. Val Kilmer is in my opinion the worst Batman. He was too stone. Chris O'Donnellis too old for the role of Robin. They couldn't show the father-son relationship. Nicole Kidman was sexy & seductive in her role as Chase meridian. Tommy Lee Jones was a good pick for Two-Face but that wasn't Two-Face. that was some scarred buffoon with a coin & a gun. Jim Carrey would've perfect for Riddler but his acting was like the Joker.

5. Batman & Robin-Without a dount, in my opion the most entertaining Batman movie. It was crappy movie-wise but it's great for kids. George Clooney was decent as a veteran Batman but he was alittle too stright-forward. Chris O'Donnell was decent but he was whining too much. Alicia Silverstone was (pause) Alicia Silverstone. Uma Thurman was more of a Catowman then Poison Ivy. Her voice was kind of annoying too. Arnold Schwarzennegger was a great Mr. Freeze in my opinion. Without a doubt his best acting. Schumacher destroyed bane.

[Batman1939]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman Mask of Phantasm
3. Batman
4. Tie Between Batman Returns and Forever
5. Batman and Robin

[Triligors]

I think the answer is obvious

1- Batman 89
2- Batman Begins
3- Batman Returns
4- Batman Forever
5- Batman and Robin

Batman 89' no matter how accurate an adaptation IS the BEST Batman film. Nolan, Bale and Goyer would all tell you this. Why? It was quintessentially the first actual Batman film ever made. Saying Begins is better than 89' is similar to saying Singer's Supes Returns will be better than Supes: The Motion Picture. Is no contest. No matter how the quality you may think, or how accurate Batman 89' still remains a classic because it's the first Batman film ever made and it was the first to finally bring out the darkness of the hero. Burton made Batman for film, he brought the real Batman to film finally- if it were not for him and his vision, well.... we might have still got pow bang and "holy wiz"es today. He showed the darkness of the hero and the agony. Plus, hey- first Batman film ever (really, unless you count the TV show movie). So, Begins? Second best because it wasn't the first, thus it wasn't the classic. Ask anyone involved with begins, chances are- they'll tell you the exact same thing.

[Voyeur]

Well, calling Burton's BATMAN the "first" is questionable considering the 1966 film. But being the first film doesn't necessarily mean being a classic. For example, a lot of people consider the 1951 version of A CHRISTMAS CAROL with Alistair Sim the greatest version of that story, but there were other versions before it. Most agree that the 1950's version of BEN-HUR was better than the 30's adaptation of the same film.

[Superman2007]

1) Batman Begins- Amazing.
2)Batman Forever-Isn't it funny that about 6 years later the Spider-Man movie would rip-off the sequence where Batman has to choose to save one person or the other but decides to save both. Just replace Robin with a cart full of kids, and Chase Meridian with Mary Jane. Val Kilmer is the man.
3) Batman Returns- this movie creeped me out when I saw it as a kid, thanks very much Mr. Burton.
4)Batman 89'- Good movie, I just hated that I could tell the difference between real sets and minatures.
5) Batman & Robin- crap.

[DocLathropBrown]

This goes in order of favoritism, not which I feel is the best/worst...

1) BATMAN - The 1989 Masterpiece. What can be said?
2) Batman Begins - The 2005 Masterpiece. What here, too, can be said?
3) Batman Returns - The 1992 Masterpiece. If people would look past what's "Bizarre," they'd see a stunning character piece about duality and the masks we wear in life.
4) Batman Forever - Not quite a masterpiece, but oh, it had the potential. Wraps up the Burton Batman arc by having him get over his conflicts from B89 and BR. B89 was the conflict of weather or not he should do what he does. After the murder of the Joker, BR was the struggle with the darkness, where he was consumed by it fully. Forever is the resolution in that he sees his struggle reflected in Dick and he manages to clear his head and make his nightly job a choice--no longer a curse. Even Schumacher couldn't ruin the script that Burton practically outlined.
5) Batman and Robin - This has very strong scenes in it. Really, the biggest problems were Bane, Batgirl, and the puns.

[블라스]

I just bought the SE's for B89 and BR :up:
It's been years since I've seen them, and with BB being the masterpiece that it is, I may have bad mouthed the Burton films, but after a talk with a friend, I realized I can't compare them to BB and appreciate them for what they are.
I even forgot the great memories I have when I watched them at the theater.
So I'm happy :up:

[SatanBurger]

Begins is like a DIY guide, How To Become Batman. Or as Variety reviewed it:
"What this incarnation of Batman lacks is theatricality, a sense of showmanship to put over the new approach. Although little jokes and quips are gradually introduced, only slowly does Nolan dare to begin having any fun with the material, and even then far too cautiously. It's not that the film is prosaic, but it is terribly sober, afraid to make grand gestures and build to major payoffs. It's as if, out of a desire to appear smart and not to pander to the large public destined to see the picture, Nolan restrained himself from providing moments that might prove too audience pleasing."

I dare you to point out one instance in Burton's films in which Batman's thetaricality comes close to his debut on the docks in Begins. Or his attack in Scarecrow's warehouse. Or the deployment of his bats. Or his interrogation of Flass. You can't. You know why? Bcause execution is everything in film. You can talk about pop-psychology symbolism in Returns all you want, but the fact is it was handled terribly. Absolutely awful. The structure ranges from emarassingly reminiscent of a mediocre highschool term paper to unwatchable (Selina's ridiculous monologues, for instance). Not once does Batman live up to his name, either. He stands around looking a little goofy and a little uncomortable. Like a guy in a rubber suit. Not once does he swoop with any bravado or melt into the shadows. He's essentially a substantially less impressive Superman, or The Terminator in kinky leather. These recent accusations that Nolan's vision is less loyal to the romanticism of Batman boggles my mind. It's so far off base I don't even know where it stems from. Perhaps nifty set pieces and pseudo-goth imagery are convincing enough to some to make up for limp character portrayal.

Thinking back to the sweeping shot of Batman overlooking his city after whooping Falcone's men in contrast to Burton's Batman limping around the clocktower in awkward mock-karate right now. Mind is still boggled.

[DocLathropBrown]

I dare you to point out one instance in Burton's films in which Batman's thetaricality comes close to his debut on the docks in Begins. Or his attack in Scarecrow's warehouse. Or the deployment of his bats. Or his interrogation of Flass. You can't. You know why? Bcause execution is everything in film. You can talk about pop-psychology symbolism in Returns all you want, but the fact is it was handled terribly. Absolutely awful. The structure ranges from emarassingly reminiscent of a mediocre highschool term paper to unwatchable (Selina's ridiculous monologues, for instance). Not once does Batman live up to his name, either. He stands around looking a little goofy and a little uncomortable. Like a guy in a rubber suit. Not once does he swoop with any bravado or melt into the shadows. He's essentially a substantially less impressive Superman, or The Terminator in kinky leather. These recent accusations that Nolan's vision is less loyal to the romanticism of Batman boggles my mind. It's so far off base I don't even know where it stems from. Perhaps nifty set pieces and pseudo-goth imagery are convincing enough to some to make up for limp character portrayal.

Thinking back to the sweeping shot of Batman overlooking his city after whooping Falcone's men in contrast to Burton's Batman limping around the clocktower in awkward mock-karate right now. Mind is still boggled.

None of that is fact. It's all your opinion. And your opinion will never equal fact, no amtter how much you want it to.

[Batwing6655]

I dare you to point out one instance in Burton's films in which Batman's thetaricality comes close to his debut on the docks in Begins. Or his attack in Scarecrow's warehouse. Or the deployment of his bats. Or his interrogation of Flass. You can't. You know why? Bcause execution is everything in film. You can talk about pop-psychology symbolism in Returns all you want, but the fact is it was handled terribly. Absolutely awful. The structure ranges from emarassingly reminiscent of a mediocre highschool term paper to unwatchable (Selina's ridiculous monologues, for instance). Not once does Batman live up to his name, either. He stands around looking a little goofy and a little uncomortable. Like a guy in a rubber suit. Not once does he swoop with any bravado or melt into the shadows. He's essentially a substantially less impressive Superman, or The Terminator in kinky leather. These recent accusations that Nolan's vision is less loyal to the romanticism of Batman boggles my mind. It's so far off base I don't even know where it stems from. Perhaps nifty set pieces and pseudo-goth imagery are convincing enough to some to make up for limp character portrayal.

Thinking back to the sweeping shot of Batman overlooking his city after whooping Falcone's men in contrast to Burton's Batman limping around the clocktower in awkward mock-karate right now. Mind is still boggled.

BB had no iconic moments and if it did, it wasnt anything memorable that ppl will be "AWSOME!" except for the hardcore fans, like the batwing flying up to the moon, IMO one of the best scenes in B89. simple as that. BB was a good film, but not the most entertaining batman film, IMO. kinda like BR, great film in general, but wasnt a complete BATMAN film. heck, i enjoyed Returns over BB simply cuz it had more batman that i know and was just far more entertaining, and the characterswere great and burtons ogtham city just owns. that whole sene with bale on top of the building looking down on the city, while cool, didnt fill me with "OOOOO AAAHH" like the scenes in B89 did. just didnt work with me. BB was kinda bland in my eyes, nothin TOO special, it WAS essentially "how to become batman".

oh and i really dont like what they did to the batmobile in BB, or should i say "tumbler".:rolleyes: and rachel pissed me off. worst love interest EVER.

this is the list for me:

1.B89 (of course)
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman Begins
4.Forever
5. B&R (but i might as well take it off the list, lol)

[Nightwing1977]

BB had no iconic moments and if it did, it wasnt anything memorable that ppl will be "AWSOME!" except for the hardcore fans, like the batwing flying up to the moon, IMO one of the best scenes in B89. simple as that. BB was a good film, but not the most entertaining batman film, IMO. kinda like BR, great film in general, but wasnt a complete BATMAN film. heck, i enjoyed Returns over BB simply cuz it had more batman that i know and was just far more entertaining, and the characterswere great and burtons ogtham city just owns. that whole sene with bale on top of the building looking down on the city, while cool, didnt fill me with "OOOOO AAAHH" like the scenes in B89 did. just didnt work with me. BB was kinda bland in my eyes, nothin TOO special, it WAS essentially "how to become batman".



Actually, BB does have some great iconic movements. How can you not call when Batman standing around buildings like a gargoyle or looking down with cape flowing iconic? It's really is iconic. We seen those kind of poses many times with the comic books & the Batman cartoon. Same with the gliding with bats around him. It was taken from the Year One comic book so that another iconic movements. And Rachel is not his love interest. You should know that she was his childhood friend, not lover. Yes, she kiss him in the end but it don't mean they're in love. She was kinda testing him to see if he still Bruce Wayne or it was just a friend kiss. But again, she was not his girlfriend.

[Batwing6655]

Actually, BB does have some great iconic movements. How can you not call when Batman standing around buildings like a gargoyle or looking down with cape flowing iconic? It's really is iconic. We seen those kind of poses many times with the comic books & the Batman cartoon. Same with the gliding with bats around him. It was taken from the Year One comic book so that another iconic movements. And Rachel is not his love interest. You should know that she was his childhood friend, not lover. Yes, she kiss him in the end but it don't mean they're in love. She was kinda testing him to see if he still Bruce Wayne or it was just a friend kiss. But again, she was not his girlfriend.

how could she just be "testing" him? she came off as a tease. a lame tease. and i wasnt diggin it. katie holmes wasnt needed. simple as that.

BB did have some iconic moments, but i guess time will only tell if it will be as "memorable" as B89 and BR were. personally, IMO, BB will never be as memorable as B89. i cant see BB being remembered as much as B89 will be in the next 10 years.

[PunisherPoster]

1. Batman
2. Mask of the Phantasm
3. Begins
4. Returns
5. Forever

[SatanBurger]

BB had no iconic moments and if it did, it wasnt anything memorable that ppl will be "AWSOME!" except for the hardcore fans, like the batwing flying up to the moon, IMO one of the best scenes in B89. simple as that. BB was a good film, but not the most entertaining batman film, IMO. kinda like BR, great film in general, but wasnt a complete BATMAN film.

Maybe it's just me, but the "Batwing"'s split second moment of glory against the moon doesn't hold a candle to a single instance I cited. None of the awe or terror of Batman is ever felt in Burton's films. He just feels like a rich guy in a rubber suit with a weird hobby. His motivation is visited briefly enough to render it pretty much useless, which doesn't help.

And no iconic moments? Are you kidding me? The movie was practically built on iconic moments.

[Kevin Roegele]

#1 Batman movie: Batman Returns - I doubt any Batman movie could ever reach these artistic heights again. It's somewhat of an anomaly that Burton had such creative control on such a huge money-making project - something Warner Bros were quick to learn from. Returns goes inside Bruce Wayne's head to create a Gothic netherworld where the central, doomed characters all embody elements of Bruce's troubled psyche. To the sounds of Danny Elfman's ever-escalating choral mayhem, they attempt to work together, but eventually they clash and destroy each other. Is there any Batman story, comic or otherwise, with such a dark outcome? Throw in Michelle Pfeiffer's incredible Catwoman and Danny DeVito's horrific yet somehow sympathetic Penguin - Burton actually improved these characters - and somehow Christopher Walken is the sanest part of the film. You have film noir, German Expressionism, Dr Suess, penguins with rocket launchers - who else but Burton could pull off all these diverse elements? It truly does work on so many levels. Batman Returns is a beautiful, haunting, flawed masterpiece. No, Returns doesn't stay slavishly true to the comics, no it doesn't try and make Batman as believable as possible like Begins; Returns elevates the story of Batman to a whole new level.

http://www.timburtoncollective.com/brcaps/images/br_061.JPG

http://www.timburtoncollective.com/brcaps/images/br_087.JPG

http://www.timburtoncollective.com/brcaps/images/br_100.JPG

[Batwing6655]

Maybe it's just me, but the "Batwing"'s split second moment of glory against the moon doesn't hold a candle to a single instance I cited. None of the awe or terror of Batman is ever felt in Burton's films. He just feels like a rich guy in a rubber suit with a weird hobby. His motivation is visited briefly enough to render it pretty much useless, which doesn't help.

And no iconic moments? Are you kidding me? The movie was practically built on iconic moments.

ummmm.....that your opinion? batman in B89 had plenty of "terror" moments, hanging the guy from a roof, shooting the jokers men to death, gliding down onto unsuspecting bad guys, etc etc. there was alot of scary batman moments in B89 that you tend to ignore to glorify BB even more. BB wasnt a gosend IMO, it was a good film, but i only remember bruce wayne, not batman. in B89, it was BATMAN, and he was cool. but then again it wasnt called batman begins, so im not surprised.

and just because YOU deem it "useless" doesnt mean a thing. it was awsome, ppl loved it, and STILL love it, and it DOES hold a candle to BB, as it was just more memorable and cooler then anything i saw in BB. simple as that.

[PunisherPoster]

BB did have some iconic moments, but i guess time will only tell if it will be as "memorable" as B89 and BR were. personally, IMO, BB will never be as memorable as B89. i cant see BB being remembered as much as B89 will be in the next 10 years.

This was my feeling about BB as well. The whole thing was a little too calculated in my opinion, and you were constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin.

There were lots of memorable images, but they were lifted directly from the comics. 'Iconic' doesn't just mean it makes you say, "Oooh, that's a pose from Year One!!!" Forever also had things taken directly from the comics, but I don't think anyone considers them 'iconic'.

A film should create lasting images that evoke- but don't copy- the comics. For my money, that one shot of Batman facing the batsignal (on the back of the new B89 dvd) is more iconic than any frame of film in BB. And that includes the numerous 'gargoyle poses' throughout.

[Batwing6655]

#1 Batman movie: Batman Returns - I doubt any Batman movie could ever reach these artistic heights again. It's somewhat of an anomaly that Burton had such creative control on such a huge money-making project - something Warner Bros were quick to learn from. Returns goes inside Bruce Wayne's head to create a Gothic netherworld where the central, doomed characters all embody elements of Bruce's troubled psyche. To the sounds of Danny Elfman's ever-escalating choral mayhem, they attempt to work together, but eventually they clash and destroy each other. Is there any Batman story, comic or otherwise, with such a dark outcome? Throw in Michelle Pfeiffer's incredible Catwoman and Danny DeVito's horrific yet somehow sympathetic Penguin - Burton actually improved these characters - and somehow Christopher Walken is the sanest part of the film. You have film noir, German Expressionism, Dr Suess, penguins with rocket launchers - who else but Burton could pull off all these diverse elements? It truly does work on so many levels. Batman Returns is a beautiful, haunting, flawed masterpiece. No, Returns doesn't stay slavishly true to the comics, no it doesn't try and make Batman as believable as possible like Begins; Returns elevates the story of Batman to a whole new level.

http://www.timburtoncollective.com/brcaps/images/br_061.JPG

http://www.timburtoncollective.com/brcaps/images/br_087.JPG

http://www.timburtoncollective.com/brcaps/images/br_100.JPG

totally awsome post man. that is so true. burton is a genius. for NOT staying totally true to the comics (otherwise it would be pretty boring IMO). and his gotham city was a masterpiece of artwork, im glad they used his gotham for B:TAS. and michelle pfeiffer is a godess. and keaton rules as batman, especially that one pic with him holding the detonator, cool pic! why is it that keaton is still the most awsome batman? i mean, he just oozes "cool".:up:

[Milkman95]

Burton's films were good, but far from being genius. Danny DeVito's Penguin was downright ridiculous, which in turn, brought the entire film down for me. His rocket launching Penguins were even more laughable. Pfeiffer's Catwoman was great though. What also brought the film down for me is even though we explore Wayne's messed up head, we never get to know him, or his motivations. BB is definitely the best live-action film to date, which further explores his origins and motivations - we finally get to know him and his reasons for becoming this creature of the night. I like Burton's Gotham, but I can also appreciate Nolan's gritty realism approach as well - it felt more epic. We didn't have the mighty batmobile racing down the same street a few times going 30mph - that was a nice change.........

Anyways, I'll be picking up all 5 films, and will enjoy each on of them in their own way, even though B&R is God awful, I'll still check out the special features............

[Batwing6655]

im not sure when ppl say BR and B89 are "flawed". i dont see the flaws, just great filmmaking. for me, devito's penguin WAS genius, he totally became that character, he wasnt devito anymore, AT ALL. he had me fooled as a kid, and still does today. he was great. they were all great. the burton films had great casting, and everyone fitted there parts perfectly. we all know that for B&R, NOBODY fitted there roles at all. schumacher you suck. and i also like the fact that not everything is explained in the burton films. leaves that mystetry element that ws lacking in BB. everything was oover-explained in BB, and there was no mystery to batman anymore. that kinda left me with a "................" frame of mind walking out of the theater.

[Milkman95]

Sorry, but they're flawed. From the mis-casting of several actors, to the outlandish fishboy Penguin, it had flaws. But because of Tim Burton, he made it work within the warped world he created, and I can appreciate what he was trying to do. Danny DeVito did do a great job - that's not the issue. My issue was Burton took it too far for my taste with his flipper hands and rocket launching Penguins. But that's just me...........

[Batwing6655]

the flipper hands were awsome! it was a much-needed addition to the penguin, who was otherwise a damn boring character in the comics. thank God for burton, he made a boring character awsome. peguin is a mobster. omg, big whoop. how *YAWN* boring, and bland. burton made a boring villian an AWSOME villian, and i dont think penguin would be as popular as he is if it werent for burton. and miscasting in YOUR opinion, i think everyone did perfectly in there respective roles. i cant see anyone playing those characters other then them.

srry, but not everybody worships BB slavishly like you.

[Voyeur]

This was my feeling about BB as well. The whole thing was a little too calculated in my opinion, and you were constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin.
This might be true if Chris Nolan cared about B&R but I don't think he did. He and everyone directly involved in BB seemed interested in exploring Bruce Wayne's character and telling a good story. I don't think a the director or the actors were saying, 'gee, I hope this makes up for the last film.'

If anything WB and possibly DC were hoping BB would make up for the past, but all indications are that they allowed Nolan freedom to make the film he wanted to make.

So if some viewers were "constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin", it's their imagination.

I have to admit, I'm stunned when I read negative comments about BB from people who consider themselves Batman fans. It seems that they come from people who love the Burton films. I read the comics long before the first Burton film, so maybe that's why I don't harbor the warm fuzzies about it.

[Milkman95]

the flipper hands were awsome! it was a much-needed addition to the penguin, who was otherwise a damn boring character in the comics. thank God for burton, he made a boring character awsome. peguin is a mobster. omg, big whoop. how *YAWN* boring, and bland. burton made a boring villian an AWSOME villian, and i dont think penguin would be as popular as he is if it werent for burton. and miscasting in YOUR opinion, i think everyone did perfectly in there respective roles. i cant see anyone playing those characters other then them.

srry, but not everybody worships BB slavishly like you.

Sorry, not everybody worships BR like you do either. The Penguin could be a good character WITHOUT having to make him into a mutant. Like I said, I do appreciate what Burton tried to do, but in the end, it was too warped IMO. Get over yourself.

[Milkman95]

This might be true if Chris Nolan cared about B&R but I don't think he did. He and everyone directly involved in BB seemed interested in exploring Bruce Wayne's character and telling a good story. I don't think a the director or the actors were saying, 'gee, I hope this makes up for the last film.'

If anything WB and possibly DC were hoping BB would make up for the past, but all indications are that they allowed Nolan freedom to make the film he wanted to make.

So if some viewers were "constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin", it's their imagination.

I have to admit, I'm stunned when I read negative comments about BB from people who consider themselves Batman fans. It seems that they come from people who love the Burton films. I read the comics long before the first Burton film, so maybe that's why I don't harbor the warm fuzzies about it.

That's exactly what it is - people that either became Batman fans because of the Burton films or they're just Burton fans in general. They probably didn't read any Batman comics before the first film came out. Oh well, to each their own..........

[PunisherPoster]

If anything WB and possibly DC were hoping BB would make up for the past, but all indications are that they allowed Nolan freedom to make the film he wanted to make.


This is what I meant by that, and it's not really a stretch to say that the studio was hoping to erase the memory of B+R well before BB was greenlit.

As for 'true fans' not liking it...the first person I called after seeing BB was the most comic-obsessed guy I know...and he didn't really care for it! (Actually, he enjoyed it as a film, but thought much of it was overkill. Is Bruce really that much of a mystery to anyone?)

But I don't think any fans are overly negative towards it, it's just that not everyone considers it the sacred cow most of the online (or under 20) fans do. As a result, if anyone doesn't shower it with praise, it looks like heresy.

Personally, I'm just not a big fan of trying to make every comic film as realistic as possible. There are times when I'd much rather have the fantasy elements intact, and feel as though I'm watching a comic book instead of a graphic novel. I want to just suspend belief and believe that Batman can do whatever...I don't really need to try and be convinced that *maybe* it could really happen. (It's not going to convince me anyway, because I did the research as a kid! No amount of technical jargon is going to erase the memories of my numerous broken bones.)

Oh, and it has nothing to do with the Burton films. To be honest, I think the best interpretation of Batman is still TAS.

[Batwing6655]

That's exactly what it is - people that either became Batman fans because of the Burton films or they're just Burton fans in general. They probably didn't read any Batman comics before the first film came out. Oh well, to each their own..........

yes, i believe that the case with most batman fans around the ages of 18-20 who literally grew up with the burton films. i am a burton fan AND a batman fan. and yes, i have read some of the comics, and i happen to have a few issues with the penguin. what have i discovered? peguin sucks in the comics. i enjoyed burtons mildly different take, and im sure everyone who saw it did too. i dont "worship" BR, just like you dont seem to be "worshipping" BB. but the thing is, we each have our own fav. batman films. some ppl LOVE burtons films more, some ppl ditch them (sadly) for the "new" batman. BB pleased the hardcore fans more. just cuz ebert "loved" it doesnt mean his opinion rules all. B89 in the public eye is still considered the best batman (not surprised). BB was only a speck of B89's glory.

but the thing is, you cant compare nolans and burton. there 2 different batmans, and not part of the same "franchise" (though ppl can really mistake BB as a B89 prequel). so its unfair to compare them. its simple: some ppl prefer burtons films, some ppl prefer nolans. you cant change that. so lets not try to. there all good, IN DIFFERENT WAYS. lets stop the arguing, its pretty pointless.

[Milkman95]

^I agree, no need to argue. Like I said, I really appreciate what Burton did, and I enjoy those two Batman films he did. I think I just prefer Nolan's take better at this time. Who knows, if another director down the line takes it in yet ANOTHER direction, which is different than both Nolan's and Burton's, I could prefer that at that time........

[Batwing6655]

i guess im just an old spirit. i like the fact that B89 and BR has that "timless-ness" and looks kinda like the 30's/40's with the trenchcoats, fedoras, etc. its just cool. im not to into modern day technology/stuff etc., so haveing BB set in "todays" world wasnt as intrigueing to me as haveing in set in the older times, as well as a little modern too. and the characters in BB werent as........excting? is that the word? i dunno, just didnt click with me.

[Milkman95]

i guess im just an old spirit. i like the fact that B89 and BR has that "timless-ness" and looks kinda like the 30's/40's with the trenchcoats, fedoras, etc. its just cool. im not to into modern day technology/stuff etc., so haveing BB set in "todays" world wasnt as intrigueing to me as haveing in set in the older times, as well as a little modern too. and the characters in BB werent as........excting? is that the word? i dunno, just didnt click with me.

I'll give you that - the villains in BB were not the flashy villains that the other films had, but this was Bruce Wayne's story, the villains clearly took a back seat. In the next film, expect to see more exciting villains - The Penguin, The Joker, and Black Mask will be making appearance more than likely........

[Cain]

Here's the thing, all the Batman movies have thier flaws. I say this as a person who's read Batman comics for the past 16 years. But most comics fans see more flaws than the average person because they're nitpicky. They expect to see direct translations of their favorite comic books and not adaptations. This applies to every comic based film which is where the problem is.

A lot (READ: not all) of them can't seem to enjoy themselves because they don't view them as stand alone stories just like a lot of the comics are. They can't fathom a different interpretation of what they're already very familiar with. They're comics fans not fans of film so they can't really grasps the differences between both mediums.

Movie fans on the other hand they have no baggage going into these films. They just want an entertaining film that helps them escape reality for a couple of hours. I view every single Batman movie I watch as a film fan not as a fan of the comics. Maybe that's why I enjoy them a lot more than your average comic book fan. Believe it or not I know some people who hate BB just as much as they do the Burton films. They're of course fans of the Batman comics, It's not my fault that they're not open minded enough to enjoy the changes made by the creators for their film version of the mythos. Yeah it's not a reflection of what you read in the comic books. But newsflash, these aren't the comics.

This post goes to anybody who ignorantly hates one Batman film and likes another due to it's "faithfulness" when none of them have ever been completely faithful. It doesn't go out to those who could make constructive arguments as to why they dislike a film. When people just go "such & such was crap cause it was too different from the comics" that argument holds no weight because Sin City aside there really hasn't been and never will be a 100% faithful comic adaptation. Certain elements will be spot on but others will be changed for the film format. I really loved Sin City by the way, it's not that I dislike very faithful translations of the comics. However I know a lot of people who are just film fans who think that movie was complete garbage.

People need to realize that many times the stories from the comics have no appeal to anybody but just us, the fans of the comics. Which is why Sin City didn't go on to make over $100 million or such. Because 70% of the people who went to see that flick were already fans of the Sin City series of comic books throughout the years. See I could sit here and give many reasons as to why The Crow sucked because it was pretty different from James O'Barr's story. But it is a great film based on a great comic property. It was a faithful adaptation because it kept the fundamentals of the story but at no point copied it frame for frame. It manages to appeal to people that the comics do not appeal to and that is the point of making these types of films in the first place.

I don't know I'm just tired of seeing "monkey see, monkey do" posts all around SHH I think people should actually come with valid reasons if they're going to downtalk something or just not post at all. It will help these forums out a lot. Sorry for the rant and this post will make zero difference around the way things are in SHH. Just needed to put it out there, peace.

[Batwing6655]

i totally agree with you cain, your absolutly right. i enjoyed BB as a film, and i enjoyed BR and B89 as films. i have to say, im more of a film buff then a batman buff in some ways, and personally, i enjoyed burtons films more just because they totally captivated me like no other film (until LOTR's, lol). when i saw BB, i loved it as a film and it was batman, but it wasnt as exciting and throwing as the burton films were for me. and preferences of style, mood, and overall way of storytelling affected my decsion of which batman film i liked better. for me, its burton all the way, it just was more interesting, dealt with more problems, and i liked keatons batman ALOT.

and i totally agree with you about likeing a comic book character but also being able to watch a movie that isnt "frame by frame" to the comics, etc. when i watch B89, there are some moments that were breathtaking that were NOT from the comics, in BB there were alot of moments taken right from the comics, but it didnt leave a lasting impression with me like the burton films did with its unique iconic imagery.

you made a wonderful post cain. you truly understand.:up:

[PunisherPoster]

I never considered myself a Burton fan or a huge fan of Keaton's Batman at the time, but I must say those films have really grown on me over the years.

And to reference the earlier BR pics, I have to say, that film still has the best visual look of the entire franchise. I know many complain that the Batsuit was far too bulky, but damn if that thing didn't look cool! :)

[Cain]

and i totally agree with you about likeing a comic book character but also being able to watch a movie that isnt "frame by frame" to the comics, etc. when i watch B89, there are some moments that were breathtaking that were NOT from the comics, in BB there were alot of moments taken right from the comics, but it didnt leave a lasting impression with me like the burton films did with its unique iconic imagery.

you made a wonderful post cain. you truly understand.:up:

I agree with that, I think Batman jumping through the flugelheim skylight, the "Im Batman" scene and the batmobile blowing up Axis chemicals are iconic film moments. So is the Batmobile scene from Gotham to the Batcave & the Joker's scene at city hall. As well as the scene in Returns where Batman's trying to ditch the cops. BB had a lot of moments like that as well though. IMO none of the more obvious comic influenced moments in BB outside of the year one nod were really iconic more like "oh I know that from such & such" nothing that made me go "that's some cool *****".

To me the other iconic moments were

Bruce being a complete prick to his guests at the party with his "drunk" speech. He's never been that rude in the comics not even when he needed to be that way because he wanted to save people like he did in the movie. I found that to be a welcome change to the Bruce Wayne "image"

The dock scene, Batman's always been evasive, moved very swiftly and used the shadows to his advantage in the comics. But I've never seen it played out the way it was in this film. It became a borderline horror movie.

Lastly, Crane's interpretation of Batman under the influence of a hallucinogen those are moments that will stick in my mind for many years to come. So to me they were definitely iconic.

[Spidey-Bat]

Sorry, not everybody worships BR like you do either. The Penguin could be a good character WITHOUT having to make him into a mutant. Like I said, I do appreciate what Burton tried to do, but in the end, it was too warped IMO. Get over yourself.

First off, Penguin prior to Returns, was a god awful character. All he did was steal bird-themed artifacts and have umbrellas with some bizarre gadget in them. No matter what, Penguin was going to get a remake no matter what.

Second, he wasn't a mutant. The nose is a trademark and flipper hands are real. It's called ectrodactyly, it's when the skin between your fingers doesn't fall off when you're a fetus. He was a social outcast who was manipulated by Shrek which made him a tragic villain. Far more deep than the lame, heist-pulling Penguin before. He was a good character, the only gripe people have is he was a "mutant".

[Milkman95]

First off, Penguin prior to Returns, was a god awful character. All he did was steal bird-themed artifacts and have umbrellas with some bizarre gadget in them. No matter what, Penguin was going to get a remake no matter what.

Second, he wasn't a mutant. The nose is a trademark and flipper hands are real. It's called ectrodactyly, it's when the skin between your fingers doesn't fall off when you're a fetus. He was a social outcast who was manipulated by Shrek which made him a tragic villain. Far more deep than the lame, heist-pulling Penguin before. He was a good character, the only gripe people have is he was a "mutant".

Your opinion. I do agree the character in the comics isn't all that spectacular, but he doesn't have to be eating fish, biting noses off, and cracking sex jokes to be a good character either........

[Kevin Roegele]

That's exactly what it is - people that either became Batman fans because of the Burton films or they're just Burton fans in general. They probably didn't read any Batman comics before the first film came out. Oh well, to each their own..........

Guys, please, you're embarassing yourselves. The 'I'm a real fan, you're not,' rhetoric is one of the most embarassing things fanboys do. Realise that Batman Begins is no more valid a Batman film than Batman Returns or Batman & Robin, you'd just like to think it is. It truth, the most faithful Batman movie is the 1966 film with Adam West, because it's exactly like the comics of the period.

[Kevin Roegele]

totally awsome post man.

:up: Thanks, buddy.

[Bat Attack]

Batman Begins ***** (5 Stars)

Batman '89 *****(5 Stars)

Batman Returns *****(5 Stars)

Batman Forever ***(3 Stars)

Batman & Robin *(1 Star)

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman Begins ***** (5 Stars)

Batman '89 *****(5 Stars)

Batman Returns *****(5 Stars)

Batman Forever ***(3 Stars)

Batman & Robin *(1 Star)

I'd completely agree, except I'd give Forever one more star.

[Attikus]

It's very simple. This is how I will watch the films tonight.

First, I start with BATMAN BEGINS. Why? It's the best superhero adaptation ever. Better than Superman1 and Spiderman. In one hundred years people will still talk about BB. Watch for a few surprises come Oscar time.

Then I go with BATMAN 4EVER. Why? Cause Kilmer was a great Bruce Wayne and a pretty cool Batman. Because in this installment, Batman was kinetic. He fought. He jumped and when Robin got snippy. Kilmer bellowed: "I can stop you." If Schumi would have toned down the colors and Two-faces performance was more muted. This would have been the benchmark film. As it stands, it's the second best entry in the series.

Then it's BATMAN89. Why in third place. Well, Keaton is a hollow Bruce Wayne. And a stiff but still effective Batman. Joker steals the show and that' s the film's main problem. It should have been called THE JOKER. Also, the film has shoddy effects, terrible miniatures and has not aged well. It will not stand the test of time. BB will.

Then I will watch sections of BATMAN RETURNS because I think it is really the worst Batman film. Because on paper, it could've and should've been the best. I can't bear to watch DEvito's mutant Penguin run for Mayor. This simply did not belong in a Batman film. But I love Michelle's Catwoman. Very Iconic and she should have been in a better movie. But overall the film is a ludicrous mess of wasted opportunities and superfluous characters (Christopher Walken???).

I think there's a fifth movie in the series but my mind must have repressed it, or completely erased it:) Regardless, I'm sure this film, if it exists, doesn't even need to be mentioned, or viewed...ever again!

There you have it.

Attikus

[Spidey-Bat]

Your opinion. I do agree the character in the comics isn't all that spectacular, but he doesn't have to be eating fish, biting noses off, and cracking sex jokes to be a good character either........

The only part that is my opinion, is that Penguin was a good character. Everything else is a fact. Why do people make such a big deal about 1 scene? He didn't even bite the guys nose off if you watched it. The sex jokes displayed his desire for an intimate relationship because of his social awkwardness. Saying that doesn't make him a good character is like saying Batman was't good because he was too short.

[Mark Warner]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman And Robin

[Mee]

1. Batman Begins 4.5 out of 5
2. Batman 3.5 out of 5
3. Batman Returns 3 out of 5
4. Batman Forever 2 out of 5
5. Batman & Robin 1.5 out of 5

[nite-owl]

I am sure I've done this before, but what the hell


Batman Begins
Batman Returns
Batman 89Forevers good and I haven't seen Mask of the phantasm in a while so I can't put it on the list.

[D'Artagnan]

Batman the Movie -3/5
Batman - 5/5
Batman Returns -5/5
Batman Forever - 4/5
Batman & Robin - 1/5
Batman Begins - 4/5

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman the Movie (1966)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/batman__the_movie/_group_photos/adam_west2.jpg

Batman: West is very amusing and great as Bruce Wayne. 3/5
Villains: Penguin, Joker and especially the Riddler are great. 3/5
Romantic intrest: Miss Kitka - Catwoman in disguise! Intresting parallel with Batman Returns. 3/5
Action: Waits until the climax for the fisticuffs, but rousing stuff. 3/5
Vehicles: Batmobile, Batboat, Batbike, Batcopter - the works. 3/5
Music: Captures the balance of silliness and adventure perfectly. 3/5

OVERALL: 6/10


---------------------------------------------------


Batman (1989)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman/michael_keaton/batman6.jpg

Batman: The best performance of Batman ever. 5/5
Villains: Joker is fantastic but there isn't sufficient and believable threat to Batman. 4/5
Romantic intrest: Kim Basinger does a lot to hold the insanity of the movie together. 4/5
Action: Solid if unspectacular. 3/5
Vehicles: Batmobile and Batwing - the coolest two in the series. 5/5
Music: Classic Danny Elfman. 4/5

OVERALL: 9/10


---------------------------------------------------------


Batman Returns (1992)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman_returns/michael_keaton/batman5.jpg

Batman: Keaton makes Batman too self-aware and confused, but still the best. 4/5
Villains: Best in the series. Penguin and Catwoman are both superb performances. 5/5
Romantic intrest: Selina Kyle/Catwoman, intriguing stuff. 4/5
Action: Never Burton's forte, but fun stuff. 3/5
Vehicles: Batmobile and the Batskiboat - very cool. 4/5
Music: Best score of the series, 5/5.

OVERALL: 9/10


------------------------------------------------------------


Batman Forever (1995)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman_forever/val_kilmer/batmanforeverdvd.jpg

Batman: Kilmer is the most superheroic of the Batmen, cool but lacks menace. 3/5
Villains: Two-face and the Riddler are entertaining but verge into silliness too often. 3/5
Romantic intrest: Chase Meridian, the best in the series. 4/5
Action: The best in the series. Lots of awesome spectacle. 4/5
Vehicles: New Batmobile and Batwing, plus the Batboat. 4/5
Music: Good when it's exciting, but verges into overblown camp too often. 3/5

OVERALL: 8/10


----------------------------------------------------


Batman & Robin (1997)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman___robin/_group_photos/chris_o_donnell8.jpg

Batman: Clooney wisely underplays as much as possible. 2/5
Villains: Worst in the series. Embarassing. 1/5
Romantic intrest: Julie Madison appears just for the sake of it. 1/5
Action: Silly, saturday morning cartoon-style mayhem. 2/5
Vehicles: New Batmobile, plus the Bathammer, Batsled and Batbike. Just to sell toys. 2/5
Music: Almost identical to that of Batman Forever. 3/5

OVERALL: 4/10


------------------------------------------------------


Batman Begins (2005)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/batman_begins/christian_bale/batmanbegins6.jpg

Batman: bale, second best Batman so far. Adds depth and emotion. 4/5
Villains: Believable and menacing. Not enough Scarecrow. 4/5
Romantic intrest: Katie Holmes is fine, but Rachel Dawes feels like a distraction. 3/5
Action: Excellent, old style stunt work, fights could be clearer. 4/5
Vehicles: Tank + humvee Batmobile. Logical but not as cool as previous versions. 3/5
Music: Ominous and atmospheric. Lacks a clear Batman theme tune. 3/5

OVERALL: 8/10

[Dr. Fate]

Batman 1989 - Fun despite some plot holes and flaws of logic (COUGH::Alfred takes Vicki into the bat-cave!::COUGH). Strong, quietly understated - and underused - performance by Michael Keaton as Batman/Bruce Wayne, and enjoyable over-the-top yet menacing performance by Jack Nicholson as the Joker. Fight scenes are good enough. Still arguably the most iconic of all Bat-films, with Danny Elfman's untoppable march. Gadgets are great; love that Bat-Wing.

Batman Returns (1992) - Still fun in a dark, macabre way but sometimes very unfocused. Batman/Bruce Wayne is still well played by Keaton, Michelle Pfeiffer is beyond hot as the deranged, leather clad Catwoman, Danny DeVito is an interestingly unhinged Penguin. Music is still good, fight scenes are also a bit bigger than previous. I like that Bat-Boat thing.

Batman Forever (1995) - Too cartoonish but entertaining on a slow summer night; might appeal more to a general audience than die hard Batman fans. Nicole Kidman is hot despite artificial blonde hair. As Batman/Bruce Wayne, Val Kilmer does the best he can with lesser material (it's a shame he didn't get in either the Burton or Nolan films); Chris O'Donnell is an acceptable Robin. Riddler and Two-Face are funny, but unfortunately, too funny. Fight scenes are well choreographed and staged. Great to see the Bat-Wing again. Music is fine, the U2 song kicks ass.

Batman & Robin (1997) - Everything everyone disliked about Forever but multiplied to an even greater extent. Clooney is probably the weakest Batman, but this film would have sucked regardless of who was playing who. Alicia Silverstone is a cute but pointless addition. Arnold Schwarzenegger's career was permanently wrecked by his turn as Mr. Freeze. Worst take on Poison Ivy; Bruce Timm's animated series did a better job with interpretting the source material. Fights were okay. Music is more or less the same.

Batman Begins (2005) - Back to basics, grounded more in reality than the previous films, if the term "reality" even applies to these films. Christian Bale redefines Batman/Bruce Wayne for a new audience. Good support from Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman. Katie Holmes is cute but her character is too much of a hollow girl scout. Liam Neeson rocks. Fight scenes suffer from poor kung fu editing. Bat-Tank takes some getting used to. Music is not quite as iconic as the Danny Elfman score from 1989 but is still a very noble and respectable tune in its own right. Good dark atmosphere.

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman 1989 - Fun despite some plot holes and flaws of logic (COUGH::Alfred takes Vicki into the bat-cave!::COUGH).

What else could Alfred do? Vicki arrives and tells him she knows Bruce is Batman. She's already been to the Batcave, she knows it's there. Therefore she knows Bruce is in there. So.....

[Two-Face]

1. Batman Begins-finally someone understood the character who is not second supporting character to his villains, Ra's Al Ghul and The Scarecrow weren't over the top with cheesey lines. It was all about Batman himself. When Batman sneeked behing the thug whisper saying "here" Gordon and batman meet in the rooftop and shows Joker callingcard awsome 9/10

2. Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm - Again other great Batman movie before BB was released this was my favourite Bat-movie still is after BB, Bruce falling in love with a woman turned out to be The Phantasm all long. 8/10

3. Batman (1989) - This is great movie by Tim Burton but he heavily focused on The Joker he nearly forgot about Batman. Nicholson had the best lines in the movie with Keaton been supporting role when suppose to be about title character. There are great moments opening scene with Dark Knight saying "I'm Batman" Batman crushing though the museum window saving Vicki with Batmobile been chased by the Joker goons great stuff. 7/10

4. Batman Forever - If Joel Schumacher went with Burton style and filmed what Janet Batcher wrote without Akiva Goldsman adding this movies could been better then Burton's Bat-movies. The opening scene with Bruce suiting up and then Batman trying to stop Two-Face, Schumacher should have used Two-Face as main villain with Riddler as supporting character. 5/10

5. Batman Returns - This good movie by Tim Burton, it seemed Returns wasn't sequel to original movie like Gotham changed a lot. I like Bruce waiting in Wayne Manor and Batman looking ahead from the top of building. I though Max Shrack was waste of space Harvey Dent should been in Returns. 6/10

6. Batman & Robin - Sucks, Do I need to say anything else? nope. 1/10

[The Joker]

^^^^Damn Two Face that's the third time you've posted your review in this thread :confused:

1.Batman Returns:Yep I loved this one the most.It just worked for me.Here the villains actually had a meaning for Batman.The Penguin is the man who had a terrible childhood and 'lost' his parents.Like Bruce Wayne he was angry and bitter,but Cobblepot was angry at the rest of humanity.And using Max Schreck,he took the opportunity to get his revenge on the society that he believes shunned him.
DeVito rocked as The Penguin.He was sadistic,hateful,villainous and yet also sympathetic at times.A truly tragic villain.But an evil man nonetheless.

Catwoman not only provided the sexy new love interest for both Bruce Wayne and Batman,but she was also like Batman,in the way that she was on her own self appointed crusade to wage war on those who she believes did wrong by her-namely Max Schreck.
Like the Penguin,Catwoman was truly a tragic villain,struggling with her inner demons,and having genuine affection for Bruce Wayne:"He makes me feel the way I hope I really am".
Pfeiffer kicked all kinds of ass.She can flip,kick,do all kinds of neat tricks with her whip,claw your face off,and swallow pet canarys whole.What a woman.

Batman also connected somewhat with the villains too.He genuinely hoped Cobblepot would find his parents,until he learned of the Penguin's real agenda.And of course he really cared for Catwoman.He was willing to forget her crimes and let her come live with him,because he saw she truly was a victim of her demons.A victim of Schreck.
He had some neat scenes with Alfred too,and with Schreck.Man those two were really snide to eachother.Loved it.Especially the bit at Schreck's Xmas party.Keaton did a great job,as always.

The only drawbacks to Returns IMO was lack of Commissoner Gordon.

10/10

2.Batman Begins: One that really stuck close to the comics.Bale was a magnificent Bruce Wayne.Murphy was fantastically creepy as Scarecrow.Loved his fear gas effects.Pity he was not used more.Neeson was fantastic as Ra's.A man who really believes in his twisted ideals.His convos with Bruce were highlights of the movie.
Oldman was great as Gordon.An honest cop trapped in a corrupt city.Caine was great as Alfred.He really brought some wit to the role.Morgan Freeman was great as Lucius Fox.A sort of Q for Batman,minus the grumpy nature.And Holmes was just.......there.

10/10

3.Batman 1989: Love this movie,mainly due to Nicholson's Joker.Though he wasn't very true to the Joker of the comics,he was still wonderfully hilarious and evil.All the best lines,all the best scenes,Jack stole the show.His Joker really did have the last laugh.
Basinger was a terrific Vicki Vale.Though her screaming got a little annoying after a while.Pfeiffer was a welcome change to that in Returns ;)
One thing I really didn't like,was Joker being the killer of Bruce's parents.It didn't need to be personal like that with Batman and Joker.If Burton wanted a personal grudge between them,he could have had Joker kill or maim someone Bruce/Batman cares about.

9/10

4.Batman Forever: Val Kilmer is the only decent thing in this movie IMO.He delivers a pretty good Batman,and a very good Bruce Wayne.But the villains are ridiculous,particularly Two Face.Two Face is the killer of Robin's parents,a completely unnecessary move,like with Joker in B89.
Gotham is like a trumped up version of Vegas.Robin is annoying as hell and doesn't get to show his skills at all as a partner.He's captured withing 5 minutes on the job.

3/10

5.Batman and Robin: This one needs no explanation.Pure garbage from start to finish.Terrible plot,terrible acting,and a bastardization of practically every character.

0/10

[Ronny Shade]

Begins
89
The Movie
Returns
B&R
Forever

[Bat Attack]

You know what really bothers me about Batman & Robin? When Robin smashed through that wall at the museum during the opening scene, it made the friggen' Robin logo. What the ****? How the hell did he make a perfect Robin logo?!

[Milkman95]

Batman Begins
MOTP
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin

[Robin91939]

1 BATMAN BEGINS 9.5/10
2 BATMAN 7/10
3 BATMAN FOREVER 6.5/10
4 BATMAN RETURNS 2.5/10
5 BATMAN & ROBIN 2.0/10

-R

[CConn]

1. Batman Begins - 10/10
2. Batman - 8/10
3. Batman: Return of the Joker - 8/10
4. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm - 7/10
5. Batman Returns - 7/10
6. Batman Forever - 5/10
7. Batman & Robin - 3/10

It's really hard to place Batman: The Movie anywhere, honestly. It's good because it's bad. It's a success because it's a failure. It's a 10 because it's a 0.

In sort, if I considered it as an actual adaptation of Batman, it would be a 0, if I considered it a parody, it would be near perfect. Of course then, you could consider Batman & Robin quite an excellent parody as well.

[Ronny Shade]

It's really hard to place Batman: The Movie anywhere, honestly. It's good because it's bad. It's a success because it's a failure. It's a 10 because it's a 0.

In sort, if I considered it as an actual adaptation of Batman, it would be a 0, if I considered it a parody, it would be near perfect. Of course then, you could consider Batman & Robin quite an excellent parody as well.
Well put.

[Quentin Beck]

Batman 89: 9/10
Batman Returns 9/10
Batman Forever 7/10
Batman and Robin 3/10
Batman Begins 10/10

[D'Artagnan]

It's really hard to place Batman: The Movie anywhere, honestly. It's good because it's bad. It's a success because it's a failure. It's a 10 because it's a 0.

In sort, if I considered it as an actual adaptation of Batman, it would be a 0

But it is a perfect adaption of the comics. It's exactly like the comics of the 50's and early 60's. Exactly. The humour comes from the fact that it's exactly like the comic, and played straight.

[Ronny Shade]

I must be unaware of the definition of "played straight."

[El Payaso]

But it is a perfect adaption of the comics. It's exactly like the comics of the 50's and early 60's. Exactly. The humour comes from the fact that it's exactly like the comic, and played straight.

Were the 60's Batman comics that stupid? I really don't know but I really don't think so.

[The Joker]

Were the 60's Batman comics that stupid? I really don't know but I really don't think so.

Yeah they were.

The only difference between the comics and the show was that the Batcave etc didn't have all those labels on everything,like Batcomputer,Bat radar etc.

Also the villain's henchman didn't have their names printed on their clothes :D But Batman ran around in day light with Robin,he had the Bat phone to contact the Commissoner and vice versa,Batman was very chatty and corny.Not sure if Robin was as big into the Holy sayings as the TV show one was.

Several of the TV show episodes were based off the comics too,like Joker's utility belt,Penguin's umbrella factory etc.

[Bat Attack]

Don't forget the "Whirley Bat". LOL.

[El Payaso]

Yeah they were.

The only difference between the comics and the show was that the Batcave etc didn't have all those labels on everything,like Batcomputer,Bat radar etc.

Also the villain's henchman didn't have their names printed on their clothes :D But Batman ran around in day light with Robin,he had the Bat phone to contact the Commissoner and vice versa,Batman was very chatty and corny.Not sure if Robin was as big into the Holy sayings as the TV show one was.

Several of the TV show episodes were based off the comics too,like Joker's utility belt,Penguin's umbrella factory etc.

This is why tradition not always means something good. And changes are necessary.

[CConn]

But it is a perfect adaption of the comics. It's exactly like the comics of the 50's and early 60's. Exactly. The humour comes from the fact that it's exactly like the comic, and played straight.Oh yes, I'm aware. I meant as a rather...respectful adaption of the character rather than the comics at the time.
This is why tradition not always means something good. And changes are necessary.Ironically, it was changes that made the comics in the 50s and 60s so horrible in the first place.

[El Payaso]

Ironically, it was changes that made the comics in the 50s and 60s so horrible in the first place.

Voluntary changes or CCA?

[Whack Arnolds]

Batman Begins

Batman: Bale plays an interesting and most innovative potrayl of Batman yet. He completely engulfs himself in the personality, and plays it as extremely threatning and volatile creature. Almost as if he is on the verge of being a villain at times. A complete beast when he puts on the cape and cowl, Bale does a great job as Batman. In terms of acting, he is on par with Keaton, but what makes Bale the best is that he matches Keaton's intensity and adds a physicality to the role that can't be matched by ANY of the previous actors. 5/5
Bruce Wayne: There isn't really much to say about this aspect, Bale nails the character on all levels. No previous actor came even close to tapping into the greatness of the character of Bruce Wayne. Bale manages to pull of multiple aspects of the character. A young and confused Bruce, a lost Bruce, a determined Bruce, a playboy Bruce, and an adult private Bruce. Not only does he just play these parts, he excels at them. 5/5
Villains: Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow, Carmine Falcone, League of Shadows etc. What more could you ask for? Each characters earns its place and never overrides the performance of Bale, something that always was a negative affect of previous movies. And above all, the villains make you feel as if they actually pose a threat to Batman, and you can feel the danger. 5/5
Romantic intrest: Rachel Dawes, all though not your stereotypical scream your head off, damsel in distress... is the obvious weakest link of the film, but is more of a friend than an actual love interest. Which gets points for originality. 3/5
Action: Hands down, the best action of the bunch. The fight scenes regain that sense of realism. They are brutal and entertaining to watch, with original camera techniques used for the scenes compared to current action movies. Batman strikes like the urban legend that he is potrayed to be. 4/5
Vehicles: Best batmobile EVER. It actually moves and operates at high speeds. Looks wise, it looks like a physical manifestation of the character of Batman. Ready to take his war on crime in brutal fashion to the streets of Gotham City. The batmobile chase scene is one of the best movie chase scenes of all time. A physical batmobile that is hands down the biggest bad ass of the bunch. 5/5
Music: The music is extremely interesting and only gets better with multiple viewings. The score accentuates the story instead of over powering the movie itself, which is the goal of a score. Does it have your obvious theme? To an extent no... there are many similar elements with adrenaline pumping war drums, but this isn't a tv sitcom. It doesn't need an actual theme song. 5/5
Atmosphere: On the surface it doesn't seem as though it has as much of an atmosphere as say Burton's Batman or even Shumacher's Bat-flicks... but that's because it goes subtle with it, and looks for a real world look and feel. This movie wants to show how Batman would interact in a real world city, that is rotten with poverty and crime. I feel it is rich in amotsphere, but at times because it is so real it feels as if it isn't atmoshperic. But moments such as the end, with the Narrows and the steam in the air allows for a very interesting setting. 4/5
Adaptation: About as close as it comes to the essence of the generally accepted view of who and what Batman is, and how the characters act within the mythology. 5/5
Fun Factor: Begins was a very enjoyable. It had deep moments, yet it also had flat out fun moments. We were able to see moments taken straight out of some of the staple graphic novels in which the character has become so much of an icon from. 4/5
Story: The story of a venegful young man, comming of age, and turning all his negative emotions into positive drive to better his world to help live through is father's ideals. Story had the most heart and sencerity of the bunch. 5/5
Metaphors and Themes: 5/5

Final Rating: 55/60

[Whack Arnolds]

Batman (1989)

Batman: 5/5
Bruce Wayne: 2/5
Villains: 4/5
Romantic intrest: 3/5
Action: 4/5
Vehicles: 5/5
Music: 5/5
Atmosphere: 5/5
Adaptation: 4/5
Fun Factor: 5/5
Story: 4/5
Metaphors and Themes: 2/5
Final Rating: 48/60

[Whack Arnolds]

Batman Returns

Batman: 4/5
Bruce Wayne: 3/5
Villains: 4/5
Romantic intrest: 5/5 Catowoman... need I say more?
Action: 3/5
Vehicles: 4/5
Music: 5/5
Atmosphere: 5/5
Adaptation: 2/5
Fun Factor: 2/5
Story: 2/5
Metaphors and Themes: 5/5
Final Rating: 44/60

[Whack Arnolds]

Batman Forever

Batman: 3/5
Bruce Wayne: 3/5
Villains: 2/5
Romantic intrest: 2/5
Action: 3/5
Vehicles: 4/5
Music: 2/5
Atmosphere: 3/5
Adaptation: 4/5
Fun Factor: 4/5
Story: 3/5
Metaphors and Themes: 3/5
Final Rating: 36/60

[warren_sparta27]

1. Batman Begins
do i really need to say why this is the best?
Bale IS Batman
Batman: 5/5
Bruce Wayne: 5/5
Villains: 5/5
Romantic intrest: 2/5
Action: 5/5
Vehicles: 5/5
Music: 3/5
Atmosphere: 5/5
Adaptation: 5/5
Fun Factor: 4/5
Story: 5/5
Metaphors and Themes: 5/5
Final Rating: 59/ 60

2. Batman 89
Joker, great one liners, dark and gothic
Batman: 5/5
Bruce Wayne: 4/5
Villains: 5/5
Romantic intrest: 3/5
Action: 4/5
Vehicles: 4/5
Music: 5/5
Atmosphere:4/5
Adaptation: 4/5
Fun Factor: 4/5
Story: 4/5
Metaphors and Themes: 4/5
Final Rating: 50/60

3. Batman Returns
hot chick in leather, what more can you ask for :)
Batman: 4/5
Bruce Wayne: 3/5
Villains: 4/5
Romantic intrest: 4/5
Action: 4/5
Vehicles: 3/5
Music: 5/5
Atmosphere:4/5
Adaptation: 4/5
Fun Factor: 4/5
Story: 3/5
Metaphors and Themes: 3/5
Final Rating: 45/60

4. Batman Forever
some good scences, most of them were utter rubbish though
Batman: 3/5
Bruce Wayne: 3/5
Villains: 1/5
Romantic intrest: 1/5
Action: 4/5
Vehicles: 4/5
Music: 4/5
Atmosphere: 3/5
Adaptation: 3/5
Fun Factor: 3/5
Story: 2/5
Metaphors and Themes: 2/5
Final Rating: 33/60

5. Batman & Robin
let's not talk about this :(
Batman: 2/5
Bruce Wayne: 2/5
Villains: 0/5
Romantic intrest: 0/5
Action: 2/5
Vehicles: 2/5
Music: 2/5
Atmosphere:2/5
Adaptation: 2/5
Fun Factor: 2/5
Story: 1/5
Metaphors and Themes: 1/5
Final Rating: ****

[Kevin Roegele]

Were the 60's Batman comics that stupid? I really don't know but I really don't think so.

You know, opinions on these boards would be very different if everyone knew what they were talking about.

[Kevin Roegele]

Oh yes, I'm aware. I meant as a rather...respectful adaption of the character rather than the comics at the time.

Batman the Movie was based on the comics of the time period, you can't fault it for that. And it was respectful - there are no major changes to the Batman mythos anywhere.

[The Joker]

Batman the Movie was based on the comics of the time period, you can't fault it for that. And it was respectful - there are no major changes to the Batman mythos anywhere.

Well apart from the inclusion of Dick Grayson having an Aunt Harriet,and she's living in Wayne Manor.

But she was there solely to surpress any possible gay rumours between Dick and Bruce that TV critics etc might raise.

[nite-owl]

You know, opinions on these boards would be very different if everyone knew what they were talking about.

Thats sig worthy.

[Morgoth]

Batman

Great movie. Showed who Batman truly is, The Dark Knight. And became a huge success. Five Stars out of Five.

Batman Returns

Some say too dark, but honestly, when I was 12 and saw it in theaters all the time, everyone loved it. Never heard people thought it was too dark till I started reading about it online.

I thought it was a great movie, the suit was sleeker, Catwoman was portrayed wonderfully, and Penguin was looked at in a new and sinister way. Four stars.

Batman Forever

The minute I heard Batman say:"I'll get drive-thru." I knew everything had changed with this new director.

I tried to like it, and I was so happy to see Robin finally come to life but the actor they chose sucked as Robin, the suit was nice though. And Two-Face was brought to life for the first time and was bastardized. Such a shame. The Riddler with pink hair, says it all.

Two stars.

Batman and Robin

There is not one good thing that could be said about this movie. No stars.

Batman Begins

Can't wait for more.
Nice to see the focus on Batman, not the villians, and good to see a faithful origin. And I always wanted Lucious in the movies, and Gordon finally looked like he should.

I don't like that Ra's had to fall victim to the 'reality' excuse for no imagination and take away his Lazarus Pits, but still cool.

Would've been nice if Scarecrow would've left his mask on a bit more.

All in all very good.

Five Stars.

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman

Great movie. Showed who Batman truly is, The Dark Knight. And became a huge success. Five Stars out of Five.

Batman Returns

Some say too dark, but honestly, when I was 12 and saw it in theaters all the time, everyone loved it. Never heard people thought it was too dark till I started reading about it online.

I thought it was a great movie, the suit was sleeker, Catwoman was portrayed wonderfully, and Penguin was looked at in a new and sinister way. Four stars.

Batman Forever

The minute I heard Batman say:"I'll get drive-thru." I knew everything had changed with this new director.

I tried to like it, and I was so happy to see Robin finally come to life but the actor they chose sucked as Robin, the suit was nice though. And Two-Face was brought to life for the first time and was bastardized. Such a shame. The Riddler with pink hair, says it all.

Two stars.

Batman and Robin

There is not one good thing that could be said about this movie. No stars.

Batman Begins

Can't wait for more.
Nice to see the focus on Batman, not the villians, and good to see a faithful origin. And I always wanted Lucious in the movies, and Gordon finally looked like he should.

I don't like that Ra's had to fall victim to the 'reality' excuse for no imagination and take away his Lazarus Pits, but still cool.

Would've been nice if Scarecrow would've left his mask on a bit more.

All in all very good.

Five Stars.


The Riddler has orange hair, does he not? :confused:

[Sandman138]

1. Batman Returns
*Sees pissed off fanboys throwing veggies, grabs umbrella to deflect* Why is it there's always someone who brings eggs and tomatos to a speech?! :p
Seriously, not only is it currently the best Batman movie, it's also the best MOVIE out of the five.

For those who say, "it makes no sense! There's no explanation!" Shut the f**k up. Read between the lines. "Penguin was raised by penguins!" Shut the f**k up, Red Triangle gang raised Penguin, didn't you catch when Batman was reading the newpaper clippings? "Catwoman was revived by cats!" Shut the f**k up. The awnings and the snow broke her fall, gave her a nice concussion. That, plus all the cats and the shock of her boss throwing her out caused her to snap. "Missle launching penguins!" Shut the f**k up. Microwave emmiter, need I say more?

"Batman wasn't in it!" Shut the f**k up. Batman had just as many scenes as Penguin and Catwoman. Plus, he practically invented the villians. Selina Kyle was thrown out of a window because she found out some s**t when she was preping for Shreck's meeting with BRUCE WAYNE. It was BATMAN'S interference that made the people turn against Penguin and forced Penguin to give up on his humanity and go ahead with his children sceme.

Plus, the villains themselves were supposed to represent different aspects of Batman: Shreck was the powerfull businessman with evilish tendacies, Penguin was the f**ked up man-child, and Catwoman was the vengefull vigilantie. In the end, all of them are either, as Catwoman once put it (which is the irony, because she's the only surviving one), dead or deeply resentfull.

Batman Returns is a beautiful, poingant film that's definately the best Batman film yet.

Perhaps a bit blunt, but its nice to see somebody actually watch the film actively. Rare thing on these boards.

[Evil Dead 13]

My favorites are too personal. In the sense that even though I know Batman Begins is more like the comic book, I still like Tim's movies more. I'll blame it on nostalgia. I mean, I was eleven when Batman (1989) was released--and it consumed my entire life.

So I have to go: Batman, Batman Returns, and Batman Begins. (And yus, I know I only have three films listed--but in all honesty, I don't acknowledge the other two. It's cool if you like them. I however, most certainly do not.)

I dig Tim's version of Batman, because he gets the essence right. You walk away believing it perfectly acceptable that a grown man would indeed dress up like a bat to try and make a difference.

(That, and Danny Elfman intoxicates me with pretty much everything he does. His scores are very saucy. I mean, I like the score of Batman Begins--but Danny is one of my boys; one of my go-to-for-giddiness artists.)

But I dig Batman Begins, because it gets the element right. You see the comic book reflected on the screen--especially when Batman yells at Gordon's partner, "SWEAR TO ME!" Eee! Perfection.

(About the only thing I didn't like about Batman Begins, was the character of Rachel. Meh. I hate it when Hollywood creates characters just because they can.)

[Mr. Socko]

Batman Begins: 9.5/10

Batman 89: 9.3/10

Batman Returns: 9/10

Batman Forever: 8.5/10

Batman & Robin: 5/10 (as a campy modern AW type Batman: 8/10)

[theMan-Bat]

1. Batman Returns- Atmospheric. Gothic. Erotic. Gory. Dark humor. Tragic.
2. Batman/Joker-Awesome. Powerful. Wicked.
3. Batman Begins-Explains where Batman gets his toys from. Has Lucius Fox.
I'll say something positive about the Schumacher movies:
4. B & R- At least it has neat special effects ice.
5. Forever-At least Dr. Chase Meridian was busty.

[Mr. Socko]

Chase Meridian still remains the best love interest Batman has ever had on film.

[TheGrayGhost]

In no particular order:

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Batman Begins

That's it.

[TheGrayGhost]

There are better chances Selina would survive that fall than there are for a microwave which vaporizes water to do nothing to the human body.
In fact people´s falls have been broken before and they have survided because of that, for god´s sake people have survived much worse, not to mention Selina fell on snow.

That's not true. The science in BB was completely on target. I encourage you to read some Chemistry and Physics textbooks about the matter. If you want, I could explain right now.

As for the whole Catwoman thing, I just try not to think about it.

[TheGrayGhost]

I dare you to point out one instance in Burton's films in which Batman's thetaricality comes close to his debut on the docks in Begins. Or his attack in Scarecrow's warehouse. Or the deployment of his bats. Or his interrogation of Flass. You can't. You know why? Bcause execution is everything in film. You can talk about pop-psychology symbolism in Returns all you want, but the fact is it was handled terribly. Absolutely awful. The structure ranges from emarassingly reminiscent of a mediocre highschool term paper to unwatchable (Selina's ridiculous monologues, for instance). Not once does Batman live up to his name, either. He stands around looking a little goofy and a little uncomortable. Like a guy in a rubber suit. Not once does he swoop with any bravado or melt into the shadows. He's essentially a substantially less impressive Superman, or The Terminator in kinky leather. These recent accusations that Nolan's vision is less loyal to the romanticism of Batman boggles my mind. It's so far off base I don't even know where it stems from. Perhaps nifty set pieces and pseudo-goth imagery are convincing enough to some to make up for limp character portrayal.

Thinking back to the sweeping shot of Batman overlooking his city after whooping Falcone's men in contrast to Burton's Batman limping around the clocktower in awkward mock-karate right now. Mind is still boggled.

:up:

I'm pretty much done with this thread...

[theMan-Bat]

You know what really bothers me about Batman & Robin? When Robin smashed through that wall at the museum during the opening scene, it made the friggen' Robin logo. What the ****? How the hell did he make a perfect Robin logo?!

Magic? LOL.

[captain_jimbo]

My favourite Batman films are as follows:

1) Batman (1989) - The best and most definative version ever.
2) Batman Returns - Almost as good as the first.
3) Batman Begins - A great version, but still in Burton's shadow.
4) Batman Forever - Not as good as Burton's.
5) Batman and Robin - Arrgghh!!!

[nolan's roll'n]

1. Batman Begins (4 stars)
2. Batman (3. 5 stars)
3. Batman Forever (3 stars)
4. Batman Returns ( 2.5 stars)
5. Batman & Robin (1 star)

[Sam Fisher]

Batman Begiins 7.5/10
Batman 6/10
Batman Returns 5/10
Batman Forever 5/10
Batman and Robin -323442232332232323/10

[blind_fury]

My favourite Batman films are as follows:

1) Batman (1989) - The best and most definative version ever.
2) Batman Returns - Almost as good as the first.
3) Batman Begins - A great version, but still in Burton's shadow.
4) Batman Forever - Not as good as Burton's.
5) Batman and Robin - Arrgghh!!!
my thoughts exactly! :up:

[El Payaso]

Mine too.

[Soundwave88]

Mine too.

[TheNewGuy]

Batman- This one will probably always be my favorite. I grew up on this one.
Batman Returns- Not as good as the first one, but only by a hair.
Batman Forever- I still enjoyed it, but it's not even close to as great as the Burton films.
Batman Begins- Great way to restart the franchise. It's really good, but I could never like this as much as the other ones, since I grew up on those.
Batman & Robin- Yes. It is indeed a horrible movie, but I can still watch it. There are a few things I like about it.

[Guason]

Satan really needs to go out a bit if he thinks Pheiffer´s acting as the nerdy Selina Kyle is forced, I´ve know many childish and timid adults as hell just like her. Pheiffer has always been a great actress and has never and will never overact.

[D'Artagnan]

I love them all, except B&R, which I can tolerate just like I can tolerate the comics from the 40's and 50's that it's based on. Batman and Batman Returns are just magical films, dark, mysterious and fun. Batman Forever is a dynamite superhero movie, it's the Batman film I imagined when I was a kid. I think it also has the best script so far. Batman Begins doesn't really need any extra plaudits as you all know how good it is, and Batman the movie is simply wonderful pop art entertainment.

[ab38416]

edit

[lordofthenerds]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman Forever
5. Having your crotch mauled by rabid dogs.
6. Batman & Robin

[WorthyStevens]

1. Returns/Begins (tied)
2. Batman
3. Forever
4. B&R

[Cain]

Almost 2 years later and I still stand by everything in this post I quote below. I brought it back up because I felt it would be relevant around this time especially since there's a new Bat film in production that will once again take liberties with certain elements from the mythos and reinvent them. If anything has changed since this thread's inception is that I now give Begins a slight nod over BATMAN I think because I now see it as part of a whole and dig how it's elements will evolve in it's sequel according to what we know of the new flick. But I still rank both under MoTP and Returns.

Returns because of the subtext it's been 15 years and I still pick up new stuff with every viewing it's truly a very rich piece of filmmaking and IMO one of the most ambitious blockbusters from the 90's. MotP because it showed that you don't need to dumb **** down for kids in order to make a Batman film that will appeal to all ages, plus I digged the amalgation of the conflicted romance from Returns & the Reaper storyline and the inclusion of Hamill's Joker.

Here's the thing, all the Batman movies have thier flaws. I say this as a person who's read Batman comics for the past 16 years. But most comics fans see more flaws than the average person because they're nitpicky. They expect to see direct translations of their favorite comic books and not adaptations. This applies to every comic based film which is where the problem is.

A lot (READ: not all) of them can't seem to enjoy themselves because they don't view them as stand alone stories just like a lot of the comics are. They can't fathom a different interpretation of what they're already very familiar with. They're comics fans not fans of film so they can't really grasps the differences between both mediums.

Movie fans on the other hand they have no baggage going into these films. They just want an entertaining film that helps them escape reality for a couple of hours. I view every single Batman movie I watch as a film fan not as a fan of the comics. Maybe that's why I enjoy them a lot more than your average comic book fan. Believe it or not I know some people who hate BB just as much as they do the Burton films. They're of course fans of the Batman comics, It's not my fault that they're not open minded enough to enjoy the changes made by the creators for their film version of the mythos. Yeah it's not a reflection of what you read in the comic books. But newsflash, these aren't the comics.

This post goes to anybody who ignorantly hates one Batman film and likes another due to it's "faithfulness" when none of them have ever been completely faithful. It doesn't go out to those who could make constructive arguments as to why they dislike a film. When people just go "such & such was crap cause it was too different from the comics" that argument holds no weight because Sin City aside there really hasn't been and never will be a 100% faithful comic adaptation. Certain elements will be spot on but others will be changed for the film format. I really loved Sin City by the way, it's not that I dislike very faithful translations of the comics. However I know a lot of people who are just film fans who think that movie was complete garbage.

People need to realize that many times the stories from the comics have no appeal to anybody but just us, the fans of the comics. Which is why Sin City didn't go on to make over $100 million or such. Because 70% of the people who went to see that flick were already fans of the Sin City series of comic books throughout the years. See I could sit here and give many reasons as to why The Crow sucked because it was pretty different from James O'Barr's story. But it is a great film based on a great comic property. It was a faithful adaptation because it kept the fundamentals of the story but at no point copied it frame for frame. It manages to appeal to people that the comics do not appeal to and that is the point of making these types of films in the first place.

I don't know I'm just tired of seeing "monkey see, monkey do" posts all around SHH I think people should actually come with valid reasons if they're going to downtalk something or just not post at all. It will help these forums out a lot. Sorry for the rant and this post will make zero difference around the way things are in SHH. Just needed to put it out there, peace.

[DX]

1. Begins
2. B89
3. Returns
4. Forever
5. B&R

[JB14]

Batman Returns
Batman (89)
Batman Begins
Batman (60's)
Batman Forever
I can't bring myself to acknowledge the 'other' one

Batman Returns is a masterclass in how to adapt a comic book for film. The hypereality Burton created for this film-filling the screen with everyday things you would see in any city and combining them with stunning architecture made possible by the combined talents of production designer Bo Welch and lighting maestro Stefan Czapsky. Paying homage to The Cabinet of Dr Caligari, Metropolis, Nosferatu and a bit of Richard III thrown in for good measure along the way and making the whole thing seem as though it has been filmed inside a snowglobe makes this film a visual spectacular the like of which will probably never be seen again in this CGI/digital age.
In addition, Burton's disregard for what people might expect from the comic book but concentrating on some of Batman's darker traits form some of the braver stories-his vigilantism and no-nonsense approach to crime fighting (literally fighting fire with fire at one point) made Burton's interpretation of a character, who at that point had been in the public conciousness for over 50 years, still seem fresh, vibrant and viscerally exciting.
Then there's the acting. People often criticise Burton's Batman because they're not about Batman. Burton nailed it on the head when he said that Batman is a shadowy figure, someone who would always remain and want to remain in the background; a damaged personality who relies on his anonymity to fight crime and hide his own damaged self. Keaton also understood this; as Wayne he's a blank slate, a normal guy (albeit a wealthy one), anonymous. As Batman he owns the screen, becomig larger then life and you forget the fact that he doesn't have the muscles or physicality Christian Bale brought. Here it doesn't matter, Keaton's strength lies in his considerable acting talents. The scene at the end where he reveals himself to Selina by tearing off his mask still gets me every time; Pfeiffer and Keaton are so intense these characters feel like tangible real people despite the fantasy world Burton creates.
Yes, there are little errors in the film and maybe its running time can't contain 4 big characters and 4 even bigger actors and I still wonder how on earth Batman punches a hole through the bottom of his car or how Shreck got his department store back up and running so fast after Catwoman turns it into a fireball but frankly who cares? It still is, to me, the best comic adaptation of all time.

As for the rest, well Batman '89 is still fantastic, epic on the big screen and exciting to watch 18 years (has it really been that long?) after it's release. The production design, make-up, gadgets and that car-The first time the Batmobile comes into shot I nearly fell off the cinema seat. Just brilliant.

Batman Begins is of course superb and the sixties film is fun, over the top and all the things a piece of pop kitsch from that era should be.

Forever is a mixed bag, great production values, appaling interpretations of the characters and some of the worst mugging from some otherwise excellent actors i've ever seen.

Thank you Tim Burton, thank you Michael Keaton and bring on The Dark Knight!

[gadgetfusion]

1. Batman Begins

A comic book masterpiece! This film did everything it was supposed to. It showed Bruce's origin, training, no villain team-ups, cool Batmobile, and a good plot overall. It had a great, almost perfect cast. Words cannot express how good this was. It's no Citizen Kane, but it's definitely the best comic book movie yet (at least until The Dark Knight comes out). 9/10

2. Batman Returns

It was an excellent sequel to the original Batman. Although there was too much Penguin and Catwoman and not enough Batman, it still was good overall. I perfer the comic book Penguin, but Burton's version was still cool. I liked Walken's character, he fit in well. Penguin's death is still a great scene, and Pfeiffer's Catwoman is still a classic. Tons better than Berry's. 8.5/10

3. Batman Forever

Other than Two-Face and some of Riddler's jokes, this movie wasn't half bad. Kilmer is the second-best Batman IMO, and Carrey did a good (although very silly) Riddler. I liked this version of Robin. It could've been better than Returns if they fixed Two-Face, taken out the neon, and kept the deleted scenes in. 7.5/10

4. Batman

It was good, but I don't like Jack Napier's pre-Joker life and origin (it wasn't like The Killing Joke at all, except for the toxic chemicals pit thing). I hated the fact that they made Joker kill Bruce's parents, and I hated the fact that there were Prince songs even more (I like Prince, but he didn't belong in Batman), and I extremely hated the campy Jokercopter. Tim Burton is amazing and all, but this definitely was one of his worst films. This was still ten times better than Batman & Robin. 7/10

5. Batman (1966)

Holy flashbacks! This movie was so silly and campy it was almost disgusting. From exploding sharks to strange versions of classic villains to bombs with terribly long fuses to more gadgets than James Bond. It's good for a laugh, but not for a lifetime. 5/10

6. Batman & Robin

Oh dear, where do I begin? So many Mr. Freeze puns that my head almost exploded. Poison Ivy had hair that looked like buildings. Bane was reduced to an unintelligent henchman. Batgirl just wouldn't shut up and wasn't related to Gordon in any way. Robin talked even more than Batgirl. Batman and Robin surfs from the sky while Mr. Freeze escapes by flying away on moth wings (his very very heavy armor doesn't even pull him down a little). And a Superman reference that's cringeworthy. The worst piece of crap in cinematic history. 0/10

[GoogleMe94]

My favourite Batman films are as follows:

1) Batman (1989) - The best and most definative version ever.
2) Batman Returns - Almost as good as the first.
3) Batman Begins - A great version, but still in Burton's shadow.
4) Batman Forever - Not as good as Burton's.
5) Batman and Robin - Arrgghh!!!

same here man, totally agree with this list. i guess ill do mine anyways.

Batman 89 = comic book masterpiece. it has everything you could want. great hero, great villian, good humour, creepy, and not corny.

Batman Returns = great batman film, almost on par with the original, and in some ways it outdoes the first one. both of the villians are superb, keaton is even more cooler and darker as the bat, and the visual aesthetic is genious. its also more emotional and thought provoking then the first film

batma forever = a new version of batman wich has some enjoyable moments, kilmer's ok, robin story was ok, but otherwise sucks when compared to the burton films. way too colorful and silly, and the villians sucked.

batmand robin = totally sucked. clooney stinks as batman, and the villians were even more of a joke then forever's villians. and it was ALOT more colorful.

batman begins = while a wee bit more faithful then the other films, it is, in one word, BORING. the visual aesthetic is lacking bigtime, the batmobile got turned into a ugly tank, and christian bale is nowhere near as good as michael; keaton was. also suffers from some pretty corny dialgue and at times felt too much like spiderman 1. sorry, but this is supposed to be a batman movie,. not a spiderman knockoff.

[Darkest Knight]

Batman Begins (9.5 / 10)

The greatest of all the bat-films. It absolutely nails the essence of the entire mythos. Strikes the best balance out of all the films in virtually all categories. Its a more intimate and serious view on Batman within a contemporary world. The acting is top notch, and the film is carried by the best actor to put on the cape and cowl yet. BEGINS treads the balance of fantasy and reality and pulls off the most motivational and heart felt Batman story yet. The themes and plot presented is second to none in this series of movies. So much character development, growth, and intrigue.

Not only does this film deliver in spades, it leaves you so reved up for a sequel, that it has you squirming in your seat with possibilities for future installments.

Batman (9.0 / 10)

Outstanding movie. It's eye candy at its greatest. The movie is a mythic interpretation of the character. While at times deviating from the actual feel of the source as a whole, it makes up for this in sheer bad ass-ness.

Batman Returns (8 / 10)

Interesting movie. It was the first movie in the franchise to dwell too much in one area, thus alienating viewers and fans. However, with that said, it is a cool interpretation of the character, with interesting visuals and audio bliss ... however, it is just not near as definitive and iconic as the two previously mentioned movies. Returns flaw is it starts to sink too deeply into Burtonman instead of Batman. This movie's flaws stick out even more to me, because the first one was such a grand hit, and they had the right flavor / tone / look, etc. and then they proceeded to switch it all up for the sequel. This movie also lacks the momentum and sheer fun the first one delivered.

Batman Forever (6 / 10)

Batman and Robin ( 2 / 10)

[Mr. Socko]

I will rerank

Batman Begins: 9/10

Batman 89: 9.5/10

Batman Returns: 9/10

Batman Forever: 8/10

Batman & Robin: 6/10

[dude love]

I probably have given my thoughts in this thread, but I can't be arsed to look.

1. Batman (1989) - The very best. This movie manages to respect Batman's privacy but still make him a larger than life character. It goes deep inside his head and allows the viewer to think for themselves. Even little things like Batman standing in front of the AXIS Chemicals sign hold so much meaning. The action scenes are great. Especially the fight with the ninja guy and the huge Ray Charles lookin' mofo. Michael Keaton's portrayal remains my favourite and arguably best Batman and I hardly think Heath will be able to top Jack Nicholson (Although most will prefer Heath by default :whatever: ). Danny Elfman gives us a triumphant score that is synonymous with Batman. Anton Furst's bleak, ugly, Gotham has yet to be topped, be it by the shoebox of Returns, the neon mardi gras of Forever and B&R or the vanilla of Begins.

Also, Batman does his own detective work.

10/10.

2. Batman Returns (1992) - The second best, if only because it lacks the beauty of Anton Furst's production design. Keaton continues to deliver the goods and then some. Michelle Pfeiffer proves to be the best leading lady of a comic book film. Ever. DeVito more than holds his own as the Penguin, who dramatically (and thematically) improved over his comic book counterpart and of course Christopher Walken who goes against type and plays the only normal central character. Again some cool action scenes, including Batman's first encounter with Catwoman and the whole chaos with the Red Triangle gang that surrounds them. We continue the fascinating journey into Batman's mind that was started in B89 and the beauty of it is still that you have to figure it out for yourself. Burton once again fills the movie with little things that hold much meaning, like the entire opening credits sequence and Penguin being born on Christmas 33 years ago. Last but not least Danny Elfman manages to trump his previous effort. I dare say this is Elfman's best work.

And Batman still his own detective work.

10/10.

3. Batman Begins (2005) - The most flawed of the three great films. Christian Bale provides the best physical portrayal of Batman. The tank is f**king cool and my personal favourite of Batman's transportation. While the main part of Gotham is entirely bland, the Narrows really bring Gotham to life, it's a damn shame the whole city didn't look like that. The action leaves a lot to be desired, to put it simply the fight scenes are crap. However I was willing to forgive them if they where the only problems with the film. Sadly, they weren't. The film's biggest detriment was it's script or at least two elements of it. First, the dialogue was horrid, I mean completely unnatural and at times I even cringed, nobody, and I mean nobody talks like that in real life. Second, how expository the whole thing was. At no point was the viewer allowed to think for themselves, nigh on everything had to be explained, even the films thematics. It was like depth for dummies. Having seen Momento, Insomnia and The Prestige it really looks as though Johnathan Nolan didn't even glance at the script which is a shame because if it had a bit of a polish it could've been so much better. But there is so much to love about this film. The performances all great, the actors and Nolan really overcame the horrid dialogue which speaks volumes of their talent. Even Katie Holmes did a decent job. Christian Bale standing heads and shoulders above the rest (You must remember that guys like Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine and Liam Neeson where all in superb form). The score was solid and much like the whole script it could've been interchanged with another superhero. While the fight scenes where generally bad (But forgivable) the whole climax in the Narrows was a spectacle to behold it gets my heart racing every time.

10/10 (Higher than it should be out of respect for Batman, seriously this could've just as easily been a Daredevil or Wolverine movie).

4. Batman Forever (1995) - Some flashes of Batman's character arc from the previous movies and a good job by Val Kilmer who had near nothing to work with. Beyond that, there's nothing I like, even in hindsight although I could actually see the fight scenes (Compared to Begins) they where too cartoony.

5/10

5. Batman & Robin (1997) - Utterly worthless beyond Anrie hamming it up.

0.5/10 (Saved from a minus score by the hilarity of Arnold).

[StylishHokie21]

1. Batman
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman Begins
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman and Robin

[Rockbottom]

MOTP would be at the top of my list. I just watched it and it certainly belongs here, its the only film which actually sucks me in emotionally. Yes Begins has some emotional moments but none of them really get me, unlike MOTP were you really care for Bruce and Andrea, its really tragic the way the life went for them both. Also the score is just perfect.

[Cyrusbales]

Batman-Batman returns = Both equally as unique and artistic, nto only bringing life to batman in a wonderful way, but producing a fine piece of cinema in the process.

Batman Forever = MANY problems and issues here, however there are still worthwhile elements, Val Kilmer showing off a brilliant batman and bruce wayne. Pleasant sets and playing on a different era of batman comics, without diving too much into the campness.

Batman Begins =A great opening act, however the rest of the film is incredibly dull and has little to offer, feeling more like a generically bland action film, rather than something special, unique or exciting.

B&R = Hillarious at times, yet very saddening. Arnold is great ONLY because he hams it up so much turning it into a farcicle comedy.

[Kevin Roegele]

Almost 2 years later and I still stand by everything in this post I quote below. I brought it back up because I felt it would be relevant around this time especially since there's a new Bat film in production that will once again take liberties with certain elements from the mythos and reinvent them. If anything has changed since this thread's inception is that I now give Begins a slight nod over BATMAN I think because I now see it as part of a whole and dig how it's elements will evolve in it's sequel according to what we know of the new flick. But I still rank both under MoTP and Returns.

Returns because of the subtext it's been 15 years and I still pick up new stuff with every viewing it's truly a very rich piece of filmmaking and IMO one of the most ambitious blockbusters from the 90's. MotP because it showed that you don't need to dumb **** down for kids in order to make a Batman film that will appeal to all ages, plus I digged the amalgation of the conflicted romance from Returns & the Reaper storyline and the inclusion of Hamill's Joker.


Yeah, it's actually quite sickening to see anyone describe any of the films as definitive, or write about an actor, "he IS Batman", or say, "the Batman in the comics is dark and vengeful, where did all this camp stuf come from?" or finally, "The comics are a Holy text and should never be steered away from. The movie that is most like the comic is therefore the best movie."

[Cain]

Yeah, it's actually quite sickening to see anyone describe any of the films as definitive, or write about an actor, "he IS Batman", or say, "the Batman in the comics is dark and vengeful, where did all this camp stuf come from?" or finally, "The comics are a Holy text and should never be steered away from. The movie that is most like the comic is therefore the best movie."

It's gotten to the point that I've seen people now (offline not online ftr) want to take the first 30 years of the character's history and disregard it because it falls out of line with what they like. We all like Batman for different reasons, it limits the appeal if you have such a narrow minded vision of a character with such a rich and varied history. It's also sad cause these people can't understand that cinematic changes have to be made for dramatic purposes or to fall in line with the creative vision. Is no different then going from one writer to another in the comics but film has to recreate the character for a new audience and to see people draw from many points in the mythos to achieve that is admirable as someone who would one day want to pursue a career in film.

But things will always be that way so you just got to do what you do and keep it moving lol. 20 years from now when a new vision is presented I wouldn't be surprised if the kids of that day want to **** on Begins just because it didn't live up to it's fullest potential like every other Batman movie. Just because a lot of changes were made in those 20 years that Batman Begins no longer adheres to. It will always be an excellent Batman movie in it's own way regardless of what they think though same for the first 3 from the other set of Batman movies.

[CFE]

The thing about comic books and comic characters, as expressed by Akiva Goldsman and Geoff Johns along with others, is that they are afforded multiple interpretations and their mythologies can be contorted in a multitude of different ways.

You think Batman would still be here today if that wasn't true?

That said, it's not a question of which film is the definative Batman (if that were the case, all of the films would be 'definative' in their own way to particular fans that grew up with a particular approach to the material.)

The question is which film is the most faithful to the bare essence of what Batman is about as a character?

A young man who's life is shattered by violence decides that, rather than excessively grieving, he will "symbolically avenge" the murder of his parents by training himself into a being of physical and mental perfection in order to ensure what he experianced will not imprint itself onto another young soul.

Going off of that, Tim Burton's original "BATMAN" captures that idea, but doesn't show you the idea. "Begins" shows it to you, and that way you become more invested in Bruce's decision to fight crime.

However it's "Mask of the Phantasm" that does so in the most stylistic way.

-----------------

1: BATMAN 9.5/10
2: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm 9/10
3: Batman Returns 9/10
4: Batman Begins 8/10
5: Batman Forever 6/10
6: Batman and Robin 4/10

CFE

[CrazyDavey]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm
3. Batman (89)
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman (66)
7. Batman & Robin

[bat89]

Batman Begin/MOTP
Batman '89/ Batman Beyond:ROTJ
Batman Returns
Batman '66
Batman & Robin
Batman Forever: The reason I put this one last is because B&R was crap from the start. This could have been something, but it was too busy trying to be "family friendly" and sell toys. That is the greatest failure.

[Kevin Roegele]

It's gotten to the point that I've seen people now (offline not online ftr) want to take the first 30 years of the character's history and disregard it because it falls out of line with what they like. We all like Batman for different reasons, it limits the appeal if you have such a narrow minded vision of a character with such a rich and varied history. It's also sad cause these people can't understand that cinematic changes have to be made for dramatic purposes or to fall in line with the creative vision. Is no different then going from one writer to another in the comics but film has to recreate the character for a new audience and to see people draw from many points in the mythos to achieve that is admirable as someone who would one day want to pursue a career in film.

But things will always be that way so you just got to do what you do and keep it moving lol. 20 years from now when a new vision is presented I wouldn't be surprised if the kids of that day want to **** on Begins just because it didn't live up to it's fullest potential like every other Batman movie. Just because a lot of changes were made in those 20 years that Batman Begins no longer adheres to. It will always be an excellent Batman movie in it's own way regardless of what they think though same for the first 3 from the other set of Batman movies.

The longer I spend on these boards, the more I recognise there is an elite of posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to these movies. You, sir, are in that elite.

[BubbaGump]

-Batman Begins (9.5/10)
-Batman Returns (9/10)
-Batman (8.5/10)
-Batman Forever (asdfghjkl)
-Batman and Robin (qwertyuiop)

[Axtech]

1. Batman Begins (9/10) - With only minor flaws, Nolan did exactly what needed to be done to reinvent the film-medium's take on the dark knight.
2. Batman (9/10) - Not perfect of course, but for it's time it was a great adaptation of the comics, and still stands up as a great movie. Also, Keaton. Need I say more?
3. Batman Returns (7.5/10) - This is a good movie on its own, but with the focus shifted off of Batman, and the decidedly Burtonian atmosphere, it strays a little too far from what the first movie started.
4. Batman Forever (6/10) - Not horrible, but certainly doesn't stand a chance in comparison to either of Burton's movies. There is enough good in the movie to salvage it and make the campy bits bearable, but it's still a disappointing departure from the dark serious nature of Burton's films.
5. Batman and Robin (1/10) - Nipples, ass-shots, one-liners, bad acting, horrible takes on all three villains, campy everything, this movie crosses the line from being a bad superhero movie to feeling like a spoof of a bad superhero movie. A few redeeming points, but what movie doesn't have a few bearable moments? This past weekend I actually sat through this monstrosity for the first time in years, thinking it couldn't possibly be as bad as I remembered. It absolutely was.

[Ibn]

You guys realize that Joker is going to completely outshine Batman in the Dark Knight too right? He's colorful and talkative, whereas Batman is dark and quiet? And Batman ain't gonna sell the movie either, the Joker will.

[Ibn]

The longer I spend on these boards, the more I recognise there is an elite of posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to these movies. You, sir, are in that elite.

Indeed. Bravo to that man. Thank god we're not the only ones!

[dude love]

The longer I spend on these boards, the more I recognise there is an elite of posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to these movies. You, sir, are in that elite.

Where were you when I was consistently telling everyone the same thing two years ago? :cmad:

[Kevin Roegele]

Where were you when I was consistently telling everyone the same thing two years ago? :cmad:

Community service. :csad:

[Bruce_Wayne29]

1º Batman
2º Batman Returns
3º Batman Begins
4º Batman Forever
5º Batman And Robin

[Cain]

The longer I spend on these boards, the more I recognise there is an elite of posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to these movies. You, sir, are in that elite.

Thanks a lot man, I just find it sickening how so many people could consider themselves Batman fans and truly hate any of these movies with an unspoken passion. I'm glad that we have gotten basically a movie representing each era of the character so far, there is something out there for every Bat fan even the ones who like the ultra campy interpretations. I don't think there are any fans of any other superhero as lucky as we are in that respect, I mean we got 5 Batman movies encompassing many different aspects of the mythos and there are even more coming in the future. Could you say that about any other superhero? not even Superman and he's considered the greatest by many although we all know Batman is the best :cwink: I mean how could you hate on that?

[Kevin Roegele]

Thanks a lot man, I just find it sickening how so many people could consider themselves Batman fans and truly hate any of these movies with an unspoken passion. I'm glad that we have gotten basically a movie representing each era of the character so far, there is something out there for every Bat fan even the ones who like the ultra campy interpretations. I don't think there are any fans of any other superhero as lucky as we are in that respect, I mean we got 5 Batman movies encompassing many different aspects of the mythos and there are even more coming in the future. Could you say that about any other superhero? not even Superman and he's considered the greatest by many although we all know Batman is the best :cwink: I mean how could you hate on that?

:):up: Exactly my sentiments. The variety in the Batman movie series is something to be treasured, not argued over! Instead of squabbling over Nolan or Burton, we should be glad that they made such different films when given the same subject matter.

[CFE]

Not to beg to be recognized in that elite you mentioned, Kevin, but I'd have to agree.

Everytime someone dismisses B&R I shake my head.

It's just as viable an interpretation of Batman as any other; it adds to the history of the character.

Burton covered the gothic romanticism and twisted psychological aspects of Batman.

Schumacher gaves us the broad, bold, heroic and fun aspect of Batman and of comic books.

Nolan gave us a gritty taste of realism and displayd Batman as a man of resource and one who thinks on his feet for situations.

I love each one of the Batman films. I'm not saying they're perfect films (such a thing doesn't exist) but they're all fun and inventive and credible in heir own way.

CFE

[Mr. Socko]

Not to beg to be recognized in that elite you mentioned, Kevin, but I'd have to agree.

Everytime someone dismisses B&R I shake my head.

It's just as viable an interpretation of Batman as any other; it adds to the history of the character.

Burton covered the gothic romanticism and twisted psychological aspects of Batman.

Schumacher gaves us the broad, bold, heroic and fun aspect of Batman and of comic books.

Nolan gave us a gritty taste of realism and displayd Batman as a man of resource and one who thinks on his feet for situations.

I love each one of the Batman films. I'm not saying they're perfect films (such a thing doesn't exist) but they're all fun and inventive and credible in heir own way.

CFE

My thoughts exactly. :up:

[Kevin Roegele]

I love each one of the Batman films. I'm not saying they're perfect films (such a thing doesn't exist) but they're all fun and inventive and credible in heir own way.

CFE

That's why the Batman franchise will outlast all other superhero franchises. Because every few movies, the entire style and approach changes. When audiences are getting bored of other superhero series, Batman keeps recreating itself.

[CFE]

That's why the Batman franchise will outlast all other superhero franchises. Because every few movies, the entire style and approach changes. When audiences are getting bored of other superhero series, Batman keeps recreating itself.

Perfectly stated, Kev :up:

Couldn't have said it better.

CFE

[Ibn]

That's why the Batman franchise will outlast all other superhero franchises. Because every few movies, the entire style and approach changes. When audiences are getting bored of other superhero series, Batman keeps recreating itself.


Yep. I look at it like this. The five bat movies have been a complete and accurate reflection of the character and his universe as a whole. Burton's Batman was a dark, ruthless, cold blooded bastard, while his Bruce Wayne was brilliant, yet quirky at the same time, just like the Bob Kane; Bill Finger era Bats. Shumacer's Batman was reminiscent of the campy Dick Sprang era up to the TV Show. Just a funny good time (thought the nipples remain unjustifiable). Finally Nolan's Batman represents Denny O'neal; Neal Adams to Jeph Loeb (current continuity) Bats.

And Just for the record, people ***** about how the Joker killing the Waynes was unjustified because around that time the killer had been revealed as Joe Chill. That's completely unfair, because I seriously doubt Nolan would incorporate something as recent as Hush into a movie yet, and that was around seven years ago. So please let it go.

Also, Joel Shumacer is a damn good director. Pretty serious and dark one at that. It pisses me off that the WB recruited him to do Batman and make him lighter for the kiddies. Shumacer could have made a great serious Batman, 8mm style.

Peace:word:

[Kevin Roegele]

Yep. I look at it like this. The five bat movies have been a complete and accurate reflection of the character and his universe as a whole. Burton's Batman was a dark, ruthless, cold blooded bastard, while his Bruce Wayne was brilliant, yet quirky at the same time, just like the Bob Kane; Bill Finger era Bats. Shumacer's Batman was reminiscent of the campy Dick Sprang era up to the TV Show. Just a funny good time (thought the nipples remain unjustifiable). Finally Nolan's Batman represents Denny O'neal; Neal Adams to Jeph Loeb (current continuity) Bats.

And Just for the record, people ***** about how the Joker killing the Waynes was unjustified because around that time the killer had been revealed as Joe Chill. That's completely unfair, because I seriously doubt Nolan would incorporate something as recent as Hush into a movie yet, and that was around seven years ago. So please let it go.

Also, Joel Shumacer is a damn good director. Pretty serious and dark one at that. It pisses me off that the WB recruited him to do Batman and make him lighter for the kiddies. Shumacer could have made a great serious Batman, 8mm style.

Peace:word:


If you read the Denny O'Neill/Neal Adams Batman (I mean the character as opposed to the comics), the Val Kilmer version is very much like him, both visually and in behaviour. Their Batman was more talkative, more open to showing his emotions, and an athletic superhero rather than a grim vigilante.

[Blader5489]

1) Batman Begins
2) Batman
3) Batman Forever
4) Batman Returns
5) Batman & Robin

[Ibn]

If you read the Denny O'Neill/Neal Adams Batman (I mean the character as opposed to the comics), the Val Kilmer version is very much like him, both visually and in behaviour. Their Batman was more talkative, more open to showing his emotions, and an athletic superhero rather than a grim vigilante.


True. But Two Face and Riddler were more like the Sprang era to me. Your right about Bats though.