Exposed - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[NHawk19]

Hulk if your chair at work has wheels here's a simply demonstration using a push instead of a pull.

Lift your feet off the ground and push against your desk. Typically you'll move because your desk has more mass than you do. Now reset it up but place a pen on your desk and push. Then pen moves because it has a much smaller mass than you.

Now you've exerted a lot of force on the desk more so than the pen similar to what Clark would have done to the Helicopter. Now reset it and push harder. You'll move away faster. In the same way the Helicopter has more mass than Clark. Even if he would have pulled harder he would have moved towards the helicopter.

[AllThingsComic]

LOL goodmorning all, everyone is overanalyzing this. Superman is not real so there will never evereverever be proof on either side. Just love the show please, thank you. I love you all! lol

[NHawk19]

LOL goodmorning all, everyone is overanalyzing this. Superman is not real so there will never evereverever be proof on either side. Just love the show please, thank you. I love you all! lol

Acctually . . .

Another proof is if you take a rubberband and a pen. Place the pen in the rubber band and stretch it. Now if you release the pen it will move. However if you release both sides at the same time, the rubberband will snap to the pen.

The band is execting the superforce, but the pen has more mass. Hence the band moves to the pen.

[The Incredible Hulk]

^ Helicopter's Upward Force
| 50,000 #'s
|
|
|

| Superman's weight
| 200#'s
\/


ugh, ok I was joking before but. . . Since Helicopter Upward Force is greater than Superman's weight he would be lifted off the ground.

this example is flawed as well. It would be appropriate if A) Superman was just standing there and not putting up resistance, or B) If it was a normal human who's force was = their weight. But with Superman his force doesnt equal his weight, when he's pulling back at full strength. It's sort of a mind screw to get your head around it, because it basically goes against the properties of everything on Earth, but that's how you need to look at it. It's be more like this:

^ Helicopter's upward force
| 50,000 #'s
|
|


| Clark's downward force
| 6,000,000 #'s
V

[AgentPat]

Hulk if your chair at work has wheels here's a simply demonstration using a push instead of a pull.

Lift your feet off the ground and push against your desk. Typically you'll move because your desk has more mass than you do. Now reset it up but place a pen on your desk and push. Then pen moves because it has a much smaller mass than you.Now superglue (yuk yuk, get it? Superglue? Heh, I crack myself up sometimes LOL) the pen to the desk and perform the same experiment. Push (or pull) the pen. Aint gonna move, is it? That's cause it's *attached* to the desk, which has greater weight and mass than you in the chair - which also has less friction coefficient because you're on wheels.

I don't think I can explain this any other way, but regardless of strength, if Clark can't hold something to prevent himself from being pulled off the ground, he's gonna go air born if he doesn't let go of the tether. He HAS the strength to pull it out of the sky, but only if he has something to pull against in the opposite direction. His own mass isn't enough. He has to pull against something that's immovable - like a pen superglued to the roof. LOL

Gotta luv a good geek conversation about science and comic book characters. :up: :D

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hulk if your chair at work has wheels here's a simply demonstration using a push instead of a pull.

Lift your feet off the ground and push against your desk. Typically you'll move because your desk has more mass than you do. Now reset it up but place a pen on your desk and push. Then pen moves because it has a much smaller mass than you.

Now you've exerted a lot of force on the desk more so than the pen similar to what Clark would have done to the Helicopter. Now reset it and push harder. You'll move away faster. In the same way the Helicopter has more mass than Clark. Even if he would have pulled harder he would have moved towards the helicopter.


but how hard i push is irrelevant, as I'll never outweight the desk, and since I'm not kryptonian, I cant exert a force greater than my weight which would be the only way the desk is going to move away from me :) Using that logic, Clark should never even be able to throw a car since it outweighs him...

[The Incredible Hulk]

I don't think I can explain this any other way, but regardless of strength, if Clark can't hold something to prevent himself from being pulled off the ground, he's gonna go air born if he doesn't let go of the tether. He HAS the strength to pull it out of the sky, but only if he has something to pull against in the opposite direction. His own mass isn't enough.

Gotta luv a good geek conversation about science and comic book characters. :up: :D

Pat, you keep repeating that and making the same error in logic. I agree Clark's own mass isnt enough, but unlike pretty much all things on earth, the force Clark can generate is MUCH greater than his mass/weight. You have to sort of think outside of the normal physics realm of weight being equal to force because with Clark that goes out the window Really in that situation you have two forces acting on one another, and the greater one is going to win. The greater of two opposing forces always wins.

[NHawk19]

but how hard i push is irrelevant, as I'll never outweight the desk, and since I'm not kryptonian, I cant exert a force greater than my weight which would be the only way the desk is going to move away from me :)

Ding Dong correct. Just as Clark will never out weigh the helicopter.

So who's going to move first when Clark exerts a force him or the helicopter?

[The Incredible Hulk]

Ding Dong correct. Just as Clark will never out weigh the helicopter.

yes but you conveniently didnt highlight my next sentence which is the X factor in the whole thing........ If I could exert a force greater than my own weight and that of the desk, it would go flying and kill my boss. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing mind you ;)

[NHawk19]

Acctually you exert a force greater than your own weight when you do a pull up. So now see my question in the edit.

[avidreader]

Well I just learnt more about physics than I ever did in High School and I've been married to a mechanical engineer for 20 years. I guess I havent learnt much from him either. :D

After reading it all - Hulk's Superman theories make more sense to me in this situation than those of the laws of Newton's physics.

[NHawk19]

^ Helicopter's upward force
| 50,000 #'s
|
|


| Clark's downward force
| 6,000,000 #'s
V

This would only hold true if he was ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING which he wasnt.

Think of it like this as well. Since there is no Friction when clark puts the force on the line his

F=6 million #'s
Mass = 200 (mass units)

when you apply F=Ma

he would accelerate towards the helicopter at a rate of a = (6 million)/200

For the Helicopter to move first Clark would have to have an M greater than the helicopter. The only way to achieve this would be to anchor himself to the building.

[The Incredible Hulk]

This would only hold true if he was ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING which he wasnt.


but Clark doesnt need to be anchored to the building since he can exert that much force all by himself. Like I said, it's a mind screw to think of something exerting 27,000 times the force of it's own weight all by itself, because there's nothing in real life to point to, but that's in effect what Clark can do.

Fun debate though.... :up:

[NHawk19]

but Clark doesnt need to be anchored to the building since he can exert that much force all by himself. Like I said, it's a mind screw to think of something exerting 27,000 times the force of it's own weight all by itself, because there's nothing in real life to point to, but that's in effect what Clark can do.

Fun debate though.... :up:

It's fun. . . though I think it would be easier to demonstrate in person.

[AgentPat]

This would only hold true if he was ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING which he wasnt.Bingo!

Avid, pose the question to your hubby. He will give you the same answer NHawk and I have been saying. You HAVE to have something to pull (or push) against in order to exert a force greater than your own body weight. Otherwise, YOU will move verses the object you're trying to set into motion (or stop from its motion, as the case might be.)

[The Incredible Hulk]

Bingo!

Avid, pose the question to your hubby. He will give you the same answer NHawk and I have been saying. You HAVE to have something to pull (or push) against in order to exert a force greater than your own body weight. Otherwise, YOU will move verses the object you're trying to set into motion (or stop from its motion, as the case might be.)

Yes if you're a NORMAL HUMAN or other earthly object, that's 100% correct. But we know Clark can generate tremendous amounts of force with his body that far exceed anything that you and I could do. I'm not arguing physics as they apply to normal human beings, but Clark can run at light speed, throw cars, and generate enough force to leap into the air and grab hold of a nuclear weapon. The difference in force between him pulling and the helicopter pulling is so one sided in his favor.... Not to mention the copter is airborne and generally inclined to go downward towards him from the effects of gravity..

[NHawk19]

Yes if you're a NORMAL HUMAN or other earthly object, that's 100% correct. But we know Clark can generate tremendous amounts of force with his body that far exceed anything that you and I could do. I'm not arguing physics as they apply to normal human beings, but Clark can run at light speed, throw cars, and generate enough force to leap into the air and grab hold of a nuclear weapon.

Are you assuming he can fly or hold a position simply because he wants? Because Pat and I are arguing from the stand point that Clark hasn't yet learned to fly or hold a position in space against a force.

[AgentPat]

but Clark doesnt need to be anchored to the building since he can exert that much force all by himself.Yes, he CAN exert that much force, and then some. He's Superman for Pete's sake. LMAO!! :p But physics is still physics. He can crush things against his own body, he can pull things apart using two hands, he can lift heavy objects. In the latter example, all the pressure of his own weight and the object he's holding push down on the ground he's standing on. So if he's standing in mud or sand, what's gonna happen? The weight over his head will push him into the ground (harmlessly, of course.) Now reverse the net forces. Up, up and away. There goes Clark. ;)

There has to be an anchor of equal or greater mass to brace against.

And again, once he can FLY, physics goes out the window. Buh bye, physics. The force keeping him in the air is his own will. That's his anchor.

<- Loves Clark Kent. :D

[AgentPat]

I just thought of another example. Clark's super strong, right? Then why did he need to HOLD onto that rebar in the floor of Lex's mansion to keep from being sucked into the Phantom Zone? He should have just been able to walk away from it? Why couldn't he? 'Cause the suction was greater than his own weight, and would have pulled him in if he didn't have anything to hold onto. We can't argue that the PZ had overwhelming pulling capacity either because it would have just ripped the rebar from the floor since Clark was hanging onto it. Clark's a LOT stronger than that puny piece of metal. This is where "net force" is factored in. Ultimately, it's the rebar that kept Clark from being pulled into the PZ. (Let's ignore whatever little burst of force (flight?) Clark did to get out of the PZ's reach.)

[The Incredible Hulk]

well when we start getting into the physics of the Phantom Zone that's when the debate goes to pot, because now you're leaving thr realm of Earth physics..... That being said I believe that the Phantom Zone has some special power in regards to Kryptonians, but I'll have to go verify that one in my nerd encyclopedia...

[darkzombiemutt]

If Superman has the ability to push his body toward the sky, he most definately has the ability to "anchor" himself down

[NHawk19]

If Superman has the ability to push his body toward the sky, he most definately has the ability to "anchor" himself down

Granted but we're not dealing with a full fledged Supes we're dealing with Clark and he hasnt figured out flight yet.

Or does the fact that he was "anchored" mean that he has even though the f/x dont indicate anything.

[The Incredible Hulk]

technically he could just want himself to do it and not even realize it. Sort of an involuntary reflex.

[NHawk19]

technically he could just want himself to do it and not even realize it. Sort of an involuntary reflex.


Finally . . . . . :D

If that's the case then this is where the physics would go out the window.

[AgentPat]

...Or does the fact that he was "anchored" mean that he has even though the f/x dont indicate anything.aHAH! Now if THAT is the case, buh bye Physics 101.

Yes, once Clark has the ability to "will" himself into the air, he would also be able to "will" himself stationary, and nothing... NOTHING is gonna move him. Pulling the chopper out of the air would be a no brainer at that point.

[Finn Mac Cool]

*NOTE: This post is very long and uses a lot of equations which (while relatively simple) might still be more than people are willing to do for a message board debate. If this is the case for you, look to the bottom of the post and you’ll find the very simply analogy version of most of what I’ve been saying here*



What a lot of this comes down to is Newton’s second law: Force = Mass x Acceleration. This can also be read as Mass = Force / Acceleration, or Acceleration = Force / Mass. For the purposes of this post, Mass will always be measured in kilograms (hereafter kg), Acceleration will always be measured in meters per second per second (how many meters per second an object gains with each second, hereafter referred to as m/s/s), and Force will always be measured in Newtons (1 kg of Mass x 1 m/s/s of Acceleration, hereafter referred to as N).



Let’s say the helicopter was accelerating upward at 2 m/s/s (I’m aware the real acceleration is probably far different, but I’ll call it this for simplicity’s sake). Now let’s say the helicopter had a mass of 1500 kg (again, a VERY rough estimate). Multiply those two together, and the helicopter’s net force comes to 3000 N. I say net force because some of the force exerted by the propellers had to go to canceling out the downward force of gravity, and so couldn’t be used for acceleration upwards.



Now look at Clark. If he just hung onto the rope, he would still exert a downward force, but not much of one. This force would be Clark’s mass (I’ll guess about 100 kg) times the acceleration of gravity (10 m/s/s). So, simply by hanging on to the helicopter, Clark exerts 1000 Newtons of force. Since Clark’s force is working in the opposite direction of the helicopter’s force, Clark’s 1000 N must be subtracted from the helicopter’s 3000 N, leaving it with a net force of 2000 N. Since the mass of the helicopter remains constant, this change in force must reduce its acceleration. Acceleration = Force / Mass; Acceleration = 2000 N / 1500 kg; Acceleration = 1.333 m/s/s. Now obviously, using his mass and gravity alone, Clark can only reduce how fast the helicopter accelerates, not stop it or bring it down. This is where we run into the point of contention.



For Clark to bring the helicopter down, he must increase his downward acceleration, as he can’t change his mass. They key to this lies in Clark’s arms. Now, I don’t know what the mass of the average human arm is, but let’s say that both arms total about 10 kg. The rest of his body (90 kg) will still be pulling down with the standard gravity acceleration (90 kg times 10 m/s/s = 900 N). Clark’s arms are key because he can move them down at a very fast rate. Let’s say that Clark’s arms (which are holding the rope) can accelerate at 300 m/s/s (for someone who can run at multiple Mach speeds, this probably wouldn’t be too hard). With a mass of 10 kg, this comes to a force of 3000 N. Combined with the effect of gravity on the rest of Clark’s body, he is pulling down on the helicopter with 3900 Newtons. This cancels out the helicopter’s net force, and still leaves 900 N to pull it down with. This is simple physics: if you have two competing forces on an object, the stronger force will be the one to move it; the weaker force can merely slow it down. Clark pulled down on the helicopter with greater force than the propellers pushed it up, so the helicopter went down instead of up.



There are some who argue that Clark should have been lifted off of the ground and been unable to exert force with his arms without a foothold or some similar thing. I have two responses to this:



1) Clark would have been lifted off the ground if he hadn’t been pulling down on the rope the whole time. If he had ceased to sufficient force on the helicopter, even for an instant, he would have been pulled up. However he maintained a force that was greater than or at least equal to the helicopter’s net force from the instant he grabbed onto the rope.



2) Why would his arms suddenly be unable to pull down on the object just because he wasn’t anchored down. Clark is holding onto the rope and, even if he was in mid-air at the time, he could still have the muscles in his arms go downward. Now, any human being who tried that would merely move upward as others have said, because the force they exerted down would be miniscule to the force they were being moved up by. However this rule goes out the window when the force exerted downward is greater than the upward force. Imagine that, instead of Clark, a missile was attached to the helicopter. That missile would be relatively small, with low enough mass that it wouldn’t stop the helicopter by gravity alone. But then suppose that the jet fuel inside the missile fired. If the missile was pointing down, it would exert a powerful force in that direction, far more than the helicopter’s net force. The missile would have nothing to hold onto beyond the helicopter itself, but would still exert force downward and either take the helicopter down with it or break of the piece it was attached to. Why would Clark’s arms suddenly be incapable of moving down without a foothold? If I was in Clark’s position my arms wouldn’t move, but that’s because the force mine can exert is far less than the propellers’ force, but Clark’s arms exert a force greater than the propellers’, so instead of his arms failing to move down while the helicopter went up, Clark’s arms would go down and the helicopter would fail to go up.





*SIMPLE ANALOGY*



Think of Clark and the helicopter like a vertical tug of war. Imagine yourself playing tug of war with someone else where you’re standing in the West and the other person is standing in the East. There are two factors to determine who wins in tug of war: who is the heaviest and who is the strongest. If you’re just as strong as your opponent, but he weighs more, then he is going to win, because you will have to pull on the rope a lot more to move him than he does to move you. Similarly, if you both weigh the same, but you’re stronger than your opponent is, you are going to win, because you can pull back much harder on the rope than he can. Now suppose you’re playing tug of war with someone heavier and stronger than you are, but the other guy isn’t even going to try. He will hold onto the rope, but won’t pull back on it. Unless this guy is like sumo wrestler heavy, you will win, because, while his weight is still an obstacle to pulling him forward, you don’t have to deal with him pulling back on the rope, which normally cancels out a lot of the energy you put into pulling the rope. Finally, imagine that you’re playing tug of war, not with a person, but with a small rocket. The rocket weighs much less than you do, but it launches itself way from you at very high speeds. Despite having much greater weight and pulling your hardest, it’s no match for the energy the rocket puts into flying away from you, and it will win.



Hopefully you can see how all this relates. Both Clark and the helicopter were pulling on the rope. The helicopter weighed more, but Clark pulled back much harder on the rope. In the end Clark won this tug of war because he exceeded the helicopter’s strength by far more than the helicopter exceed Clark’s weight.

[NHawk19]

^^ I think you may have missed something.

In item 1. The 3000 N would have to be a constant application. Meaning Clark would have to have sufficient friction to counter act the pulling force of the Helicopter, or he would have had to continually pull the rope. If you look at the photo again you'll see the angle is too steep to alot much horizontal friction.

As he was lifted off the ground this would not be the case as the friction coefficient would be non-existant. Remember also he wasnt moving much and therefore not accelerating enough to counter act the force of the Helicopter early on.


2. You need to balance all the horizontal and vertical vectors. Also if at any point the helicopter's up vector becomes greater than Clarks downward vector he gets lifted. Clark had nothing to pull against once he was lifted. Ergo he had nothing to balance his pulling force. Then once he jerks the line after he's off the ground his body would have to accelerate in a direction opposite to the force applied along the rope at an a=F/M, to satisfy the action reaction portion.

Action pull on helicoptor reaction push on roof. Once he's in the air the only reaction is for him to move.

As for your rocket. Its force acts towards the helicopter, causing the movement towards the gound to balance. This is not so with Clark. His force is applied towards the ground, cauing the balance to be his movement towards the helicopter

[avidreader]

aHAH! Now if THAT is the case, buh bye Physics 101.

Yes, once Clark has the ability to "will" himself into the air, he would also be able to "will" himself stationary, and nothing... NOTHING is gonna move him. Pulling the chopper out of the air would be a no brainer at that point.

Sooooooo..........can we finally say now, that thats what happened.:D

P.S. I have actually really enjoyed reading this discussion and I send out praise to all of you involved, to have a good healthy discussion regarding something meaningful. :up:

Oh, and you're all too smart for your own good. :p ;) :D

[Serene]

Pat, you keep repeating that and making the same error in logic. I agree Clark's own mass isnt enough, but unlike pretty much all things on earth, the force Clark can generate is MUCH greater than his mass/weight. You have to sort of think outside of the normal physics realm of weight being equal to force because with Clark that goes out the window Really in that situation you have two forces acting on one another, and the greater one is going to win. The greater of two opposing forces always wins.

That's what I was trying to say in my post this morning. I can't believe this is still being debated now that I'm home from work. Fun discussion!

[AgentPat]

I was a construction worker in NY City for 4 years. I worked with some pretty smaht people and I learned a lot of practical applications from them about various substances. Stone, for example. Pretty tough stuff, right? Stronger than steel even, right? Well, not necessarily. Stone is strong in compression, but weak in tension. Put a granite counter top flat on the floor and it will support TONS and TONS of pressure without a problem. Hold it off the floor at opposite ends and put just the slightest pressure on it at the center and it will crack in half. (For those remodeling your kitchens, you just learned what NOT to do.) What makes it crack? Gravity. It's own weight pulls it apart. But I digress...

At this point, I would have you folks differ the Clark/helicopter question to a physics professor or mechanical engineer. I would hope that you'd take their word for it. We CAN talk hypothetically about something (Clark) that is super strong and unbreakable because we can relate him to objects that DO exist. But physics is still physics. Unless you're talking about Superman - who can fly by sheer force of will, which IS complete fantasy - physics still applies. If Clark weighs 220 lbs, that's his counter balance weight. If something weighs more than that, his end of the seesaw is gonna go up (and away LOL.) If he can HOLD himself down though - either by grabbing something on the ground, or in the case of Superman - sheer force of will - then the object at the other end of the seesaw isn't gonna move him, no matter how much it weighs.

I'm running out of analogies here. There's got to be SOMEBODY on this board who has a kid in high school? Have them ask their physics teacher this hypothetical question, and report the answer back here. I'm telling yas, Clark being super strong and invincible has nothing to do with this equation. If anything, it just makes the hypothetical easier to answer because we won't get hung up with practical variables like sheer forces, velocity, and structural integrity. That stuff is irrelevant to the ability of one thing (helicopter) to lift another thing (Clark) off the ground when the thing on the ground (Clark) isn't secured to the ground in any way.

Okay, meesa done here. You guys "win" if you want to continue debating physics. It's just a comic book character, after all. LOLOLOL :D

[Serene]

I'm running out of analogies here. There's got to be SOMEBODY on this board who has a kid in high school? Have them ask their physics teacher this hypothetical question, and report the answer back here.

Good idea. I have a son who is an Engineering major at a university here. I know he's currently in a physics class that is kicking everyone's butt so hard, some are dropping out of the major. Maybe I can convince him to ask his Prof. about the Superman scenario.

But I still think that there is a real life answer, and a fantasy-factor answer.. It's all in the perspective. :)

[avidreader]

Stone, for example. Pretty tough stuff, right? Stronger than steel even, right? Well, not necessarily. Stone is strong in compression, but weak in tension. Put a granite counter top flat on the floor and it will support TONS and TONS of pressure without a problem. Hold it off the floor at opposite ends and put just the slightest pressure on it at the center and it will crack in half. (For those remodeling your kitchens, you just learned what NOT to do.) What makes it crack? Gravity. It's own weight pulls it apart. But I digress...


That's no joke, my kitchen cabinets had to be lifted and leveled several times, because the granite company wouldnt put the granite on top of cabinetry that varied in height by one inch from one end to the other.

There's got to be SOMEBODY on this board who has a kid in high school? Have them ask their physics teacher this hypothetical question, and report the answer back here. I'm telling yas, Clark being super strong and invincible has nothing to do with this equation. If anything, it just makes the hypothetical easier to answer because we won't get hung up with practical variables like sheer forces, velocity, and structural integrity.

I can do that. My son's a 12th grader doing AP physics and his teacher has a PHD in the subject.

Schools out right now, so I'll have to get back to you. ;)

[jas01724]

Meh. Without being much denser than he appears to be (in mass, not intelligence) or having some kind of counter to the forces pulling against him -- either his own ability to defy gravity, or something physically connecting him to the ground -- that guy is taking a flying trip.

Of course he's Clark, so physics shmysics ...

[The Incredible Hulk]

I'm running out of analogies here. There's got to be SOMEBODY on this board who has a kid in high school? Have them ask their physics teacher this hypothetical question, and report the answer back here. I'm telling yas, Clark being super strong and invincible has nothing to do with this equation. If anything, it just makes the hypothetical easier to answer because we won't get hung up with practical variables like sheer forces, velocity, and structural integrity. That stuff is irrelevant to the ability of one thing (helicopter) to lift another thing (Clark) off the ground when the thing on the ground (Clark) isn't secured to the ground in any way.

Okay, meesa done here. You guys "win" if you want to continue debating physics. It's just a comic book character, after all. LOLOLOL :D

Your analogies are fine, but they all have the same fault, the supposition that Clark's force potential is (like pretty much all objects on Earth) related to his mass, and that's just not the case with him. He's basically an anomaly skewed so far off the chart, most of those principles wont apply to him when he's enacting that amount of force. You just cant apply any real world scenario that we know of to it...

the whole problem with this thing, as I stated before, is that no one has a point of reference for Clark, who is in effect a thing that can generate force that is millions of times greater than his weight. There's no example like it that you can give because nothing we know of has those characteristics. That's a huge disparity in the force/weight relationship that nothing on this Earth exhibits. Even a Physics professor is going to have to speculate on it, and at best, youre going to get a decent guess on his part, which may not necessarily be more than you're getting here, because everything they know from studying physics is tied into the same constraints of all earthly objects. It's sort of like someone being able to predict the "sonic boom" before anyone was ever able to break the sound barrier, it's all conjecture at this point.

[AgentPat]

But I still think that there is a real life answer, and a fantasy-factor answer.. It's all in the perspective. :)For the purposes of this hypothetical, I was shooting for the real life answer, which should be EASY because we're removing all the clunky variables that usually kick student's butts in physics classes. We don't have to factor in the ancillary, which Hulk keeps doing. I have no issues with making the assumption that Clark is ultimately strong, completely unbreakable, and faster than a speeding bullet LOL. As long as Clark isn't holding himself to the ground in some way, and flying is not part of the equation (something that CAN'T be explained using real world physics since it IS fantasy), this hypothetical has a definitive answer. There's no ambiguity to it. But the question needs to be posed in this manner: "Can Superman (sans use of flying and with an actual body weight of approximately 220 lbs) prevent a commercial helicopter (with standard lifting capacity) from flying away just by holding it back with a rope (assume an unbreakable tether) while not *also* be holding himself to the ground/roof in some way?"

Go! Ask! Geeks are waiting. :D

[NHawk19]

I've got the Civil Engineering degree. Taken courses in physics, statics and structural design. Just checked with the ME on the other side of the wall so I have backup. He's not moving the damn helicopter. For all the reasons we've cited.

[The Incredible Hulk]

For the purposes of this hypothetical, I was shooting for the real life answer, which should be EASY because we're removing all the clunky variables that usually kick student's butts in physics classes. We don't have to factor in the ancillary, which Hulk keeps doing.

LOL what's "ancillary" about what I keep bringing up?


I have no issues with making the assumption that Clark is ultimately strong, completely unbreakable, and faster than a speeding bullet LOL. As long as Clark isn't holding himself to the ground in some way, and flying is not part of the equation (something that CAN'T be explained using real world physics since it IS fantasy), this hypothetical has a definitive answer. There's no ambiguity to it. But the question needs to be posed in this manner: "Can Superman (sans use of flying and with an actual body weight of approximately 220 lbs) prevent a commercial helicopter (with standard lifting capacity) from flying away just by holding it back with a rope (assume an unbreakable tether) while not *also* be holding himself to the ground/roof in some way?"

Go! Ask! Geeks are waiting. :D

Atleast get the hypo that we've been talking about right. It's not that he's just holding it in place, it's that he's pulling it back down to him...

[Serene]

I've got the Civil Engineering degree. Taken courses in physics, statics and structural design. Just checked with the ME on the other side of the wall so I have backup. He's not moving the damn helicopter. For all the reasons we've cited.

This discussion is getting too funny.. :)

[mellyM]

Did I stumble into a physics class unknowingly? lol

[avidreader]

Did I stumble into a physics class unknowingly? lol

LOL!

Its actually starting to sound more like a philosophy class.

[AllThingsComic]

Where does outer space end? Anyone?

[AllThingsComic]

I'm kidding, don't hate me. Wow I don't ever recall such a seesaw debate in all my life. The presidential debate should be knowledgable.

[avidreader]

Ha ha, LOL!

[AgentPat]

Back again! :p

LOL what's "ancillary" about what I keep bringing up?The fact that he has super powers. It's a non-issue to the specific hypothetical of where he's *only* holding onto the chopper, and not the ground/roof as well. Yes, he would need incredible strength to pull it down (he's got that, so he CAN pull it down, NO problem), but he has to ALSO be anchored in order to have something to pull against, and he's not...

http://www.patcostello.com/temp/exposed7.jpg

Atleast get the hypo that we've been talking about right. It's not that he's just holding it in place, it's that he's pulling it back down to him...Doesn't matter. The helicopter will still pull him off the roof, whether he's trying to pull it down, or simply hold it from flying away. His body isn't anchored down, and Clark only weights about 220 lbs.

Where's that merry go round gif? LOL

Is school back in session yet? The geeks are still waiting. ;)

[avidreader]

^^^^^^

Nice picture. ;) :D

[celldog]

Found the image:

http://www.devotedfansnetwork.com/gallery/files/6/2/Exposed_541.jpg


This really bugged me. How was he able to do this? Shouldnt he have been lifted off the ground?


METROPOLIS HAS A MOUNTAIN RANGE ???? :confused:

[Serene]

SV Physics 101.

LOL!

[Kaboom]

still one of my favs

[Kaboom]

METROPOLIS HAS A MOUNTAIN RANGE ???? :confused:
vancouver does

[The Caped Knight]

still one of my favs

Mine too . :woot: