Religion in the DCU

[Elijya]

we have a Marvel religion thread running right now, but it occurs to me I don't know of any people in the DCU who belong to particular faiths

I was reading a JLA trade the other day, and they were fighting some aryan group, and one of them indicated they thought the Atom might be jewish. Any truth to that?

[The Question]

Yeah, I think he is. He's not a practicing jew, though. I remember in Identity Crisis, he remarked that he rarely participated in anything religious.

As for others, I think Batman is agnostic. I think he beleives some type of higher power exists, but he doesn't belong to any specific religion and probably doesn't care.

I think Kyle is Irish catholic.

Hal, I think, is prodestant. Or at least, I think he was raised as such.

Superman is probably an agnostic humanist. He doesn't really seem to be into religion that much, and really beleives that humanity should depend on itself and shape it's own destiny.

[TheCorpulent1]

Zauriel's an actual angel. He respects Earth's religions as guides people use to better themselves, but he's not beholden to any of them.

Huntress is Catholic, as evidenced by the gigantic crosses she wears.

Clark believes in God and I'd assume he's Christian, but I don't know what denomination.

The Spectre's in the same boat as Zauriel, only I doubt he cares much about Earth's religions.

Starfire believes in her world's god X'Hal.

Wonder Woman and the Amazons know for a fact that the Greek pantheon exists and pray to them regularly.

Oh yeah, Pieter Cross, aka Dr. Mid-Nite, is Christian and Mr. Terrific is an atheist thanks to his wife's death.

I think Hawkman still adheres to the ancient Egyptian relgion.

Also, Al Roth, aka Atom-Smasher, is Jewish.

[The Leaguer]

Superman is very Christian, seeing as he went to confide in a Catholic priest in For Tomorrow.

[King_Mungi]

Clark can even see a person's "soul"

[Johnny DC]

I don't think going to confession makes you Christian. I just think he did that to confide in someone. He occasionally says "Great Rao!", so maybe he holds a Kryptonian faith.

[The Question]

Superman is very Christian, seeing as he went to confide in a Catholic priest in For Tomorrow.


That just meant he went to a preist to confide in. I don't thonk he himself is christian. I mean, he didn't seem to be very religious. He was just asking the preist for advice from man to man.


Clark can even see a person's "soul"


He can? Since when?

[rigel7soldiers]

He was raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, who are Christians if I'm not a dumbass.

And I'm not.

Hell, what kind of marriage did he have? Yeah, I thought so.

[The Question]

Still, I don't think he's apart of any single religion. He strikes me as more of an agnostic. And philisophically, he's very much a humanist.

[Lackey]

That just meant he went to a preist to confide in. I don't thonk he himself is christian. I mean, he didn't seem to be very religious. He was just asking the preist for advice from man to man.





He can? Since when?

Superman: Birthright... referenced in Teen Titans.

[rigel7soldiers]

About that going to confession thing...

Did he go crazy an take on the government after that? Because that's the only way it could more overtly rip off Supreme Power.

[rigel7soldiers]

Also, J'Onn J'Onzz still practices the polytheistic Martian religion.

[The Question]

Superman: Birthright... referenced in Teen Titans.


Really? That's really weird.

[BrianWilly]

Connor Hawke is Zen Buddhist. I don't think his father Ollie is anything since he poked fun at Hal for having "found Christ," but that could have changed since he came back fully from heaven.

Anita Fite, Empress from Young Justice, practices Vodou.

Supergirl Linda Danvers was Christian.

According to Google, Raoism was the primary religion on Krypton and it hasn't been seriously practiced for quite a long time, so I doubt that Supergirl Kara Zor-El has any particular religion.

Manitou Raven and Dawn practice the ancient Apache religion.

Not sure what Raven believes, though she probably believes in something, likely whatever they believed in Azarath.

[Lackey]

About that going to confession thing...

Did he go crazy an take on the government after that? Because that's the only way it could more overtly rip off Supreme Power.


yeah, it's not like Supreme Power is ripping off anything :rolleyes:

[The Question]

Connor Hawke is Zen Buddhist. I don't think his father Ollie is anything since he poked fun at Hal for having "found Christ," but that could have changed since he came back fully from heaven.


I think he subscribes to the buddhist philosohies, but I don't think he's a full on practitioner of any religion.

[King_Mungi]

He can? Since when?

Yep, if you want to see a more recent issue where he does this. Check out Superman #220

Comments from the issue:
Superboy: "Ummm..What are you doing?"
Superman: "Looking at your soul. It's an..aura that most sentient lifeforms share. And yours is growing strong. Regardless of who supplied the genetic material, Conner...you have a bond with the human race"
Superboy: "And your worred that maybe, being alien, you don't. FYI, Clark, Kal, WHATEVER..for better or worse, you're probally the most "human" guy I know"

[The Question]

Hmmm. Cool. Since he's supposed to be able to see most forms of electromagnetic energy, I guess that makes sense.

[Agentdemon]

Yeah, his soul-vision, though I totally oppose it, works I guess. But it's not really a soul, just a aura or life-force that a conscious being emits.

I definitely think he's agnostic, any person in the DCU would be a fool to think there wasn't magic/divine beings since shazam, spectre all exists.

[hippie_hunter]

Batman is not an athiest/agnostic person despite what people may beleive. After encounters with Zauriel and the Spectre, it's definite proof that God exists in the DCU. Wonder Girl is the daughter of Zeus himself, Donna Troy was a part of New Chronos, proving that the Greek gods exist, don't forget that Poseidon and Athena are active supporters of Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Hawkman's, Hawkgirl's, Hawkwoman's, and the Golden Eagle's souls are affiliated with the Egyptian gods, more people Batman has encountered.

Batman knows that gods exist, he's had encounters with numerous people/entities affiliated with them. He just chooses not to worship them

[The Question]

Yeah, his soul-vision, though I totally oppose it, works I guess. But it's not really a soul, just a aura or life-force that a conscious being emits.


.....isn't that the same thing? :confused:

[BrianWilly]

I think he subscribes to the buddhist philosohies, but I don't think he's a full on practitioner of any religion.I don't know...Buddhism has some pretty specific things to say about whoring around:p. I think Ollie is generally too much of a hothead to ever really be much of a Buddhist anything. Looking at the end of "Quiver," I don't think he even knows that much about it.

[rigel7soldiers]

I think he was talking about Connor.

[The Question]

He lived in a monestary. I think he knows about it. And I said I think he subscribes to the philosophies. Not the practices.

[JesusOfNazarath]

Being raised in the counrty where religon is very prevalent one would only asume that Superman is a devout Christian, but being that DC is one of many greedy corporations they don't say so that more people can relate to them.Which broadens there fan base and enhances there bank account.


- These are the words of Christ

~ angels singing ~

HAAA HAAAA HAAAA HAAA HAAAAAA

[TheCorpulent1]

So Ollie worships at the church of hypocrisy, then? Oh well, he's certainly in good company with people from a number of other religions. :o

[The Question]

Being raised in the counrty where religon is very prevalent one would only asume that Superman is a devout Christian, but being that DC is one of many greedy corporations they don't say so that more people can relate to them.Which broadens there fan base and enhances there bank account.


- These are the words of Christ

~ angels singing ~

HAAA HAAAA HAAAA HAAA HAAAAAA


No, one wouldn't assume that. Superman has never been shown to be a devout christian. He has been shown to be non religious, and a humanist.

[Manic]

Batman is not an athiest/agnostic person despite what people may beleive. After encounters with Zauriel and the Spectre, it's definite proof that God exists in the DCU. Wonder Girl is the daughter of Zeus himself, Donna Troy was a part of New Chronos, proving that the Greek gods exist, don't forget that Poseidon and Athena are active supporters of Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Hawkman's, Hawkgirl's, Hawkwoman's, and the Golden Eagle's souls are affiliated with the Egyptian gods, more people Batman has encountered.

Batman knows that gods exist, he's had encounters with numerous people/entities affiliated with them. He just chooses not to worship them
So, in theory, Batman would be a Universalist?

[The Question]

Mabey. I think he beleives in a higher power, and just doesn't care.

[TheCorpulent1]

Batman's whole schtick is self-sufficiency and preparation for any eventuality, so I doubt faith is much of a priority for him.

[JesusOfNazarath]

No, one wouldn't assume that. Superman has never been shown to be a devout christian. He has been shown to be non religious, and a humanist.


You didn't get what I was trying to explain. :p

[Lackey]

Batman believes in God, he's even made contingency plans to take God out in case He ever decides to go rogue and start the apocolypse.

[Anubis]

Heres something to think about, the "Gods" of the DCU, like Zues or Thor and they're Pantheons were created by Morphus, and became real over countless eons due to beings worshiping them. They are basically...Dreams.

[yenaled]

Ragman is Jewish.

At least he should be.

[OA blaster]

Batman believes in God, he's even made contingency plans to take God out in case He ever decides to go rogue and start the apocolypse.

now thats a plan i want to see...from a safe distance away

[Bat-Mantis]

No, one wouldn't assume that. Superman has never been shown to be a devout christian. He has been shown to be non religious, and a humanist.Devout Christian, maybe. But in Superman: For All Seasons we saw that he and the Kents were members of a church, and Clark even went to the Priest/Preacher/Minister/Whatever to ask for advice. Then later he went to see the Priest in the For Tomorrow Arc. Also, in many books it's been shown that Pa Kent is pretty religious (just in inner monologues and so on, not that he's been to church in any book that I know of) while Martha Kent really isn't (doesn't mean she's agnostic, it just means she doesn't pray before every meal like Pa would).
Also, Superman says he can see souls in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.I think Hawkman still adheres to the ancient Egyptian relgion.Hawkman believes in elements of almost all religions and has been shown to worship the Christian God (he even blessed a sprinkler system, which he then used to kill a bunch of vampires) as well as show reverence to Hindu and Egyptian gods (his helmet is supposed to represent Horus, and he claimed it was a religious symbol so the cops couldn't make him take it off in one issue).

Also, we've seen Batman acknowledge the existence of God a bunch of times throughout the years. Granted it's usually something like his monologue in the Broken City arc where he says God pisses on Gotham, but still. I'd say he doesn't really look to religion for inspiration, but I don't think he's entirely renounced it. I do remember (in some issue I can't remember) he's said he hasn't talked to god since his parents died, but even then he doesn't deny god exists.

As for the Atom, I don’t know if he’s Jewish or not, but I do remember the scene in IC where he prayed for Jean’s safety.

[CAPT. MARVEL]

Devout Christian, maybe. But in Superman: For All Seasons we saw that he and the Kents were members of a church, and Clark even went to the Priest/Preacher/Minister/Whatever to ask for advice. Then later he went to see the Priest in the For Tomorrow Arc. Also, in many books it's been shown that Pa Kent is pretty religious (just in inner monologues and so on, not that he's been to church in any book that I know of) while Martha Kent really isn't (doesn't mean she's agnostic, it just means she doesn't pray before every meal like Pa would).
Right on, I tend to see Clark as a somewhat liberal Christian. He seems to believe in God, practices Judeo-Christian ethics, but I doubt you'd see him tell a Muslim or any other religion that they were going to burn in hell.

Also, Superman says he can see souls in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.Hawkman believes in elements of almost all religions and has been shown to worship the Christian God (he even blessed a sprinkler system, which he then used to kill a bunch of vampires) as well as show reverence to Hindu and Egyptian gods (his helmet is supposed to represent Horus, and he claimed it was a religious symbol so the cops couldn't make him take it off in one issue).

Also, we've seen Batman acknowledge the existence of God a bunch of times throughout the years. Granted it's usually something like his monologue in the Broken City arc where he says God pisses on Gotham, but still. I'd say he doesn't really look to religion for inspiration, but I don't think he's entirely renounced it. I do remember (in some issue I can't remember) he's said he hasn't talked to god since his parents died, but even then he doesn't deny god exists.

As for the Atom, I don’t know if he’s Jewish or not, but I do remember the scene in IC where he prayed for Jean’s safety.
very good observations on Batman and Hawkman as well. I was not aware of these things.

[OA blaster]

i can never get into reading hawkman

[The Red Skull]

Right on, I tend to see Clark as a somewhat liberal Christian. He seems to believe in God, practices Judeo-Christian ethics, but I doubt you'd see him tell a Muslim or any other religion that they were going to burn in hell.

Jeez... what's your idea of conservative?

Clark was probably baptised into a typical Baptist church. Location could suggest Episcopalian. Not that it matters; we never see him at any church regularly and it's not as if religion has ever meant anything to the character.

As for Connor... he was raised in a monestary, visits Buddhist book shops, etc. I think it's safe to say he subscribes to a fair few Buddhist practices. Any confusion probably stems from Kevin Smith's "Oh, Father" prayer in the Quiver arc.

That didn't make a whole lot of sense. Well, neither did Quiver.

[Xofenroht]

There is a difference between religion and spirituality. So just because Superman can see people's "souls" does not mean that he's Christian. Nor does the fact that he was raised by Christian parents in a predominantly Christian country.
Most Americans were raised in a predominantly Christian country, that doesn't automatically make us Chrisitian. Alot of people who don't believe in the Christian faith were raised by Christian families. Aside from that, according to Christianity, Superman doesn't exist...you know, because he's an alien and apparently Earth is the only planet with intelligent life and humans are the most dominant creatures aside from God.

So the idea of him being Christian seems a bit far fetched. I do think he believes in some sort of higher power though. Of course, he could be an atheist for all we know. Besides, just because someone uses an expression similar to "Oh my God!!!" doesn't mean they believe in God. It's a phrase many people use. Just like "What the Hell?"

[Bat-Mantis]

Aside from that, according to Christianity, Superman doesn't exist...you know, because he's an alien and apparently Earth is the only planet with intelligent life and humans are the most dominant creatures aside from God.Ummm... no. *shakes head* Just... no. I'm not even going to comment on that.
But I will comment on something else. It takes a pretty big leap to presume Superman isn't a Christian based on what you presented. I mean, just saying, "well, just because you grew up in one of the most conservative states in the union, in a country that's over 82% Christian, 2% atheist, 1% agnostic with older, conservative Christian parents doesn't mean you're Christian... actually, it’s pretty far fetched that you are" is just... well... yeah. Doesn't make much sense.
I'm not saying he is Christian and I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying... wow, some people just want characters to be one way and they'll close their eyes and spout any amount of dumb crap to “prove” it.

[TheCorpulent1]

Superman's "soul-vision" sounds really lame. I remember wondering what the hell was going on during that Teen Titans issue.

Anyway, isn't Superman's Kryptonian name some kind of Hebrew thing? Maybe Supes is a Jew.

[The Red Skull]

There is a difference between religion and spirituality. So just because Superman can see people's "souls" does not mean that he's Christian. Nor does the fact that he was raised by Christian parents in a predominantly Christian country.

Quite right.

Most Americans were raised in a predominantly Christian country, that doesn't automatically make us Chrisitian. Alot of people who don't believe in the Christian faith were raised by Christian families. Aside from that, according to Christianity, Superman doesn't exist...you know, because he's an alien and apparently Earth is the only planet with intelligent life and humans are the most dominant creatures aside from God.

Um... eh? Look, let's try not to lump all Christian beliefs according to whatever fundamentalist nutjob is making the rounds. Don't generalise and then criticise others for the exact same crime. Having said that, yes, you're right. Perhaps the topic should be amended so that we discuss characters for whom religious discussion is relevant?

So the idea of him being Christian seems a bit far fetched. I do think he believes in some sort of higher power though. Of course, he could be an atheist for all we know. Besides, just because someone uses an expression similar to "Oh my God!!!" doesn't mean they believe in God. It's a phrase many people use. Just like "What the Hell?"

I don't know about far-fetched, but Clark's never been shown to be especially religious in the past, so it should be assumed that he doesn't subscribe to any particular religion (not just Christianity).

Pre-Crisis Supes definitely worshipped Rao, though.

J'onn worships Morpheus, doesn't he? The Endless are members of the Martian pantheon, if I recall.

[TheCorpulent1]

J'onn recognized Morpheus as the Martian dream god, yeah.

[BrianWilly]

I thought that the Martians had their own pantheon:confused:? J'onn has evoked H'ronmeer quite a few times.

[Xofenroht]

Ummm... no. *shakes head* Just... no. I'm not even going to comment on that.
But I will comment on something else. It takes a pretty big leap to presume Superman isn't a Christian based on what you presented. I mean, just saying, "well, just because you grew up in one of the most conservative states in the union, in a country that's over 82% Christian, 2% atheist, 1% agnostic with older, conservative Christian parents doesn't mean you're Christian... actually, it’s pretty far fetched that you are" is just... well... yeah. Doesn't make much sense.
I'm not saying he is Christian and I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying... wow, some people just want characters to be one way and they'll close their eyes and spout any amount of dumb crap to “prove” it.

I'm not spouting dumb crap. Hell, I'm not even a fan of Superman, so why do I really care whether he's Christian or not?
I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that he's Christian BECAUSE he's an alien and last time I checked, Christian beliefs didn't support the existence of alien lifeforms. Yes it's farfetched for an alien from outerspace with knowledge of his origins and an obvious genetic difference from the people he's surrounded by and being raised by Conservative Christian parents to be "thought" to be Christian.

I'm just pointing out the facts. That being that it's not likely that an alien would ever be Christian.

Batman and Green Arrow are my favorite DC super heroes. So why haven't I said anything to try and not make them Chrisitian? Because it's very likely that they would be. Sure, I never quite pictured Batman as being Christian, but he just might be. I really don't know about Green Arrow myself, but he did go to Heaven, so if he's not Christian then he at least believes in an afterlife.

Besides one of my favorite Marvel super heroes happens to be Catholic. So I really don't think I have a problem with "opening my eyes".

[The Red Skull]

They do. Morpheus of the Endless just happens to be their dream god, despite being neither a god or a Martian. Same goes for most of the other Endless.

Oh, while I'm here, have we ever gotten to the bottom of the relationship between Lucifer and the First of the Fallen? FotF claims to be the first being in creation besides the DCU's Yahweh and yet can't even manage to put down a drink-sodden Liverpudlian in a dirty old mac; which leads me to believe he's just another demon with delusions of grandeur... though I'm not sure of the fact (though I'm pretty confident Ennis decided to muck up DCU cosmology for no real reason).

[TheCorpulent1]

It's possible that the Martians' telepathic abilities allow them to delver deeper into their dreams than humans. If that were the case, I imagine more than a few of them might've found themselves consciously walking around in the Dreaming, in which case they'd be exposed to Morpheus.

[CAPT. MARVEL]

I'm not spouting dumb crap. Hell, I'm not even a fan of Superman, so why do I really care whether he's Christian or not?
I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that he's Christian BECAUSE he's an alien and last time I checked, Christian beliefs didn't support the existence of alien lifeforms. Yes it's farfetched for an alien from outerspace with knowledge of his origins and an obvious genetic difference from the people he's surrounded by and being raised by Conservative Christian parents to be "thought" to be Christian.

This is wrong, Christianity has taken no stance on alien life forms one way or the other.

[Bat-Mantis]

I'm just pointing out the facts. That being that it's not likely that an alien would ever be Christian.Oh my god. This is going in my sig. It's just so unintentionally hilarious.
And your points from before are still just... wrong and don't make sense. I mean, sure. Saying he grew up in the Midwest with older Christian parents, was (apparently) raised in the church, has been known to visit a Priest for guidance, and since he's American he's 82% likely to be Christian doesn't mean he IS Christian... but claiming it's far fetched to say that he IS is just... wrong.

[ShadowBoxing]

Oh my god. This is going in my sig. It's just so unintentionally hilarious.
And your points from before are still just... wrong and don't make sense. I mean, sure. Saying he grew up in the Midwest with older Christian parents, was (apparently) raised in the church, has been known to visit a Priest for guidance, and since he's American he's 82% likely to be Christian doesn't mean he IS Christian... but claiming it's far fetched to say that he IS is just... wrong.I'm gonna have to disagree. Kal El may have been Christian early in his life, but after becoming familiar with Krypton, his parents (the real one's) and his purpose he probably dropped that like it was a bad habit (figure of speech).

[Xofenroht]

I'm glad someone sees where I'm coming from.

[Agentdemon]

.....isn't that the same thing? :confused:

No, a aura is a bio-electric field that a life-form gives off because the the electrical activity in the body. When I think of "soul", its more about spirituality but I don't think that's the ability, to actually see the soul I mean.

Superman is a humanist and most likely agnostic, regardless of his parents' religon.

[The Question]

I'm gonna have to disagree. Kal El may have been Christian early in his life, but after becoming familiar with Krypton, his parents (the real one's) and his purpose he probably dropped that like it was a bad habit (figure of speech).


Why? Why would Krypton, a planet he never steped foot on, and Jor-El and Lara, two people he's never even met, only seen recordings of, influence his spiritual descisions? I'd think it would be the people he's actually met here on Earth that would do that.

[The Question]

No, a aura is a bio-electric field that a life-form gives off because the the electrical activity in the body. When I think of "soul", its more about spirituality but I don't think that's the ability, to actually see the soul I mean.

Well, I really don't see a contradiction. A soul is the life force of a sentient being. Weather or not to include it in a religion doesn't really change what it is.

[Sentry2005]

.....isn't that the same thing? :confused:

nah, a conscious being is anything from a dog to a human. a dog has conscious thoughts about itself, its surroundings, etc. however a dog doesn't have a soul.

it might be conscious, but its not sentient, which is different. A dog can't define between right and wrong. a human can.

well thats my theory any how

[ShadowBoxing]

Why? Why would Krypton, a planet he never steped foot on, and Jor-El and Lara, two people he's never even met, only seen recordings of, influence his spiritual descisions. I'd think it would be the people he's actually met here on Earth that would do that.
Its hard to relate to a human religion when you realize you are not included by default. They don't mention Kryptonians in the Bible.

[The Question]

There aren't any mention of the Japanese either. And I'm pretty sure there are Japanese christians.

[Manic]

Jeeze, why are so many people adamant about Superman not being a Christian? The guy was raised in Kansas. Maybe he's just a non-practicing Christian.

But frankly, I have a feeling that most DC heroes are essentially Universalists. Some Universalists believe that practically all paths are right on some level, and you only have to pick the one you want. Seeing as how we know several patheons of Gods exist in the DC universe, as well as one all-mighty force The Spectre works for, I don't see how anyone in the JLA isn't into Universalism.

[ShadowBoxing]

Jeeze, why are so many people adamant about Superman not being a Christian? The guy was raised in Kansas. Maybe he's just a non-practicing Christian.

But frankly, I have a feeling that most DC heroes are essentially Universalists. Some Universalists believe that practically all paths are right on some level, and you only have to pick the one you want. Seeing as how we know several patheons of Gods exist in the DC universe, as well as one all-mighty force The Spectre works for, I don't see how anyone in the JLA isn't into Universalism.I just don't see any indication of him being Christian. If anything he is Jewish...

[Xofenroht]

Its hard to relate to a human religion when you realize you are not included by default. They don't mention Kryptonians in the Bible.

THANK YOU!!!

It's about time someone else said that. People keep talking about how "closed" my eyes are. I mean, the people who created him were Jewish for crying out loud.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, he looks like a human in literally every aspect, and the Bible does say that God's chosen were created in His image.

[Anubis]

I see what Xofenroht and SHadow are saying, and I can understand that, but I gotta figure the guys a non practicing protostant or something. I mean, he spent, his entire Childhood being brought up as a likely Christian. And I suppose if he really thought about it, sure he may come to that conclusion that Chritianity doesn't include him either. But, I think he more likely just stopped really caring at all about weather he was anything. He definatly believes in a higher power, hell, he's met the people that work for him. All in all, I would say he isn't anything really at this point, though he was likely raised as a Christian. People seem to make religion out like it's a race or something. Like, because your parents were Jewish, and you grew up Jewish, then your Jewish, when really your whatever the hell you want to be once you make up your mind. Fact is, the only time I ever saw Supes in church was in For Tommorrow, and even then, we know he was just looking to talk to somebody. I've never seen him and Lois at Church one Sunday Morning when freakin Braniac Attacks have you? So we really don't know.

And as far as him being Jewish, well, he may have been created as a Moses like character by a couple of Jews, and Kal El may also be a Hebrew name, but he's still an Alien who grew up in a portion of the world where there just aren't that many Jewish families running around. I mean, have you ever seen Pa Kent with one of those little hat thingies on his head reading the Tora?

[Anubis]

And if he converted how would he get Circumsized?

[TheCorpulent1]

Some Christians are circumcised too.

[ShadowBoxing]

I see what Xofenroht and SHadow are saying, and I can understand that, but I gotta figure the guys a non practicing protostant or something. I mean, he spent, his entire Childhood being brought up as a likely Christian. And I suppose if he really thought about it, sure he may come to that conclusion that Chritianity doesn't include him either. But, I think he more likely just stopped really caring at all about weather he was anything. He definatly believes in a higher power, hell, he's met the people that work for him. All in all, I would say he isn't anything really at this point, though he was likely raised as a Christian. People seem to make religion out like it's a race or something. Like, because your parents were Jewish, and you grew up Jewish, then your Jewish, when really your whatever the hell you want to be once you make up your mind. Fact is, the only time I ever saw Supes in church was in For Tommorrow, and even then, we know he was just looking to talk to somebody. I've never seen him and Lois at Church one Sunday Morning when freakin Braniac Attacks have you? So we really don't know.

And as far as him being Jewish, well, he may have been created as a Moses like character by a couple of Jews, and Kal El may also be a Hebrew name, but he's still an Alien who grew up in a portion of the world where there just aren't that many Jewish families running around. I mean, have you ever seen Pa Kent with one of those little hat thingies on his head reading the Tora?
I never said anything about non-practicing. Technically an atheist is a non-practicing christian is his parents were christian.

And he has met the Spectre...so yeah her would have to believe in a higher power

[Anubis]

I know, hell I'm circumcised. I'm just saying, if he wasnt', and suddenly decided to be Jewish, how exactly would he get it done? Would he do it himself?

[ShadowBoxing]

I know, hell I'm circumcised. I'm just saying, if he wasnt', and suddenly decided to be Jewish, how exactly would he get it done? Would he do it himself?umm kryptonite scissors I guess.

[TheCorpulent1]

He could. I wouldn't envy him at all, but he could. He shaves with heat vision, after all.

[Anubis]

I never said anything about non-practicing. Technically an atheist is a non-practicing christian is his parents were christian.

And he has met the Spectre...so yeah her would have to believe in a higher power


Yeah, but theres a differnce between being an Atheist and simply not caring about Religion. You can still be spiritual and believe in God, just not belonging particular religious group.

[TheCorpulent1]

As a sidebar, I wouldn't consider an atheist a non-practicing Christian if their parents are Christian. That automatically assumes that everyone must be defined by some religion. I'd consider an atheist just an atheist, which by its very nature is an unpracticed religion, because I'd go by the person's belief system.

[Anubis]

He could. I wouldn't envy him at all, but he could. He shaves with heat vision, after all.


You know, if I was him, I just be like, thats okay. God knows my heart and I save the universe enough to get a free ride into heaven.

[TheCorpulent1]

But he's Superman, so he wouldn't do anything half-assed, even joining a new religion.

[ShadowBoxing]

You know, if I was him, I just be like, thats okay. God knows my heart and I save the universe enough to get a free ride into heaven.
Why would he even care though?? Doesn't he do whats right because he feels it right, and not to please some god or get some reward after he is dead

[Anubis]

uhhh joke

ANd yeah, who does things for a shot in heaven? (More people than you might think, but thats not my point) But, there are certain religions that feel that no matter how good you are, if you don't follow they're particular religious doctorine, then your going to hell. One of the many reasons I've abandond organized religion altogether. I believe in God and try to do whats right by the supreme being, (I.E. not Robbing or killing people no matter how much I want to.) and thats all that matters.

[Xofenroht]

I never said anything about non-practicing. Technically an atheist is a non-practicing christian is his parents were christian.

And he has met the Spectre...so yeah her would have to believe in a higher power

A non practicing Christian is someone who believes in the Christian faith yet simply doesn't attend church or pray before meals or things like that.
An Atheist doesn't even have the beliefs there to make doing these things relevant.
Therefore there is no way that an Atheist could be any form of a "non-practicing" Christian.

Heck, I was raised Baptist and baptised into the faith, but I'm not a non-practicing Baptist-Christian NOR am I even remotely a Christian, and my family promotes the Christian ideals and practices.

And there's a difference between Kryptonians and Japanese people. That being that the Japanese are still human, while Kryptonians aren't. The Bible places emphasis on "The Son of Man", moreover in the New Testament, so the "made in gods image" argument doesn't apply to Supes anyway.
In response to the "why are you people so adamant in believing that Superman isn't Christian" I just say: why are you so adamant in believing that he is?
I'm not saying that he belongs to any religion in particular, while most others seem to be pinning him down to one single religion. This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.
Call me crazy and dumb if you want to. But I stand by my assertions. They aren't anymore ridiculous than the idea that he is.

[Agentdemon]

I'm not saying that he belongs to any religion in particular, while most others seem to be pinning him down to one single religion. This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.
Call me crazy and dumb if you want to. But I stand by my assertions. They aren't anymore ridiculous than the idea that he is.

lol I totally agree.

[BrianWilly]

I don't understand how Superman comes off as being Jewish. Granted, I don't really know anything at all about being Jewish, so maybe someone could educate me on this reasoning?

To me, it makes most sense that Superman is a non-practicing Christian. He was raised in a predominantly Christian part of the country. During one of the most trying times in his life, he has specifically sought the counsel of a Catholic priest. Specifically.

I don't think it matters one whit that Superman is an alien...there are many many Christians in the world that believe in evolution, alien life, the whole nine. Belief in the existence of evolution and the wonders of science does not invalidate belief in the existence of God, no matter what some fundamentalists might think. All that matters in the end is to believe that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation. The Bible doesn't mention aliens, but so what? The Bible doesn't mention string cheese. If God accept truly repentent sinners into heaven, he'll make room for an alien or two.

[BlackOpsTengu]

I find religion in the DCU to be pretty well balanced. They obviously have to walk a very tight tightrope to walk, but I think it comes off quite well. Each religion thinks its right and has supernatural beings which prove they're "right", but then it all comes down to the true "source" of these beings which is open to interpretation. :p

When I get a chance to get caught up on some of the stuff I've bought, but haven't had an opportunity to read, I plan on getting John Ostrander's Spectre run. It looks fantastic from what I've seen so far. It's hard to get good Christian themed comics/stories now adays that stay true to the source material i.e. the Bible (So Preacher doesn't count :p ). The closest I've found that aren't trash is the loosely Christian inspired Chrno Crusade manga and parts of Neon Genesis Evangelion (which had a very awesome viseral take on armageddon).

[BrianWilly]

I'm not saying that he belongs to any religion in particular, while most others seem to be pinning him down to one single religion. This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.I'm sorry, but I really am going to have to call the BS card on this. If you believe in God, then you believe that he is present in all and everything in the world, which includes outer space, which includes Krypton. Just because the Bible on earth doesn't include anything about aliens doesn't mean that aliens aren't included in God's plan; show me where it says that God is going to turn someone away from his kingdom because they're from another planet. What does it matter which planet he comes from? It matters which planet he's on now. Superman considers Earth his home and humans his peers. Of course the sins of man is of importance to him. Like the Martian Manhunter said: sentient beings share more similarities than differences. Superman could easily apply Christian belief to his background and heritage, not to mention the life that he currently lives.

And like I said, belief in science does not negate a belief in God. How many Christian, Jewish, and Muslim scientists do you wanna bet exist in the world? Next you're gonna tell me that all Christians think the world was created in seven days. Not how it works; I know plenty of people who treat those aspects of the Bible as metaphors and parables instead of outright word-for-word fact, and still consider themselves devout Christians.

And to think, I'm not even Christian. Far from it.

[BlackOpsTengu]

To jump right into this specific argument, has anyone read the Space Trilogy by C.S. Lewis? It has a very interesting take on "aliens" existing in God's universe. In a manner, they're all talking animals essentially. This makes a lot of sense when you realise most "aliens" are exactly that, anthrophomorphised and mixed up animal life forms on THIS planet. It fits quite well with the biblical views on man's place in the universe and his relations to all other forms of life which God made. Man was created to rule and guide these beings, but not in an oppressive or dictatorial sense. The new Adam and Eve of Venus are essentially the kings of the planet, but they have no concept of sin and thus don't exploit or take advantage of the other forms of intelegent life on their planet. They're technically the rulers, but everyone just naturally does their own thing without any problems or power struggle. They recognise they're all part of the same family and treat each other with respect. The coolest descriptions in the book are the awe inspiring angels called Oyarsu, who act as mankind's tutors and trainers. Think of them as cosmic gaurdians, they run the universe while mankind is growing into its destiny. When the main character Ranson showed up on Mars in the previous book, it was the evil scientists that kidnapped him who had designs of conquest and explotation of these "alien" beings, not the "Christians".

[Sentry2005]

If you have faith, you believe in God no matter what. Regardless of what logic or science dictates, you believe in a higher power. If Supe's is a religious guy, it doesn't matter that he's from another planet, or that Krypton is scientifically waaaaaaaaay more advnaced than us.

My feelings on Superman... I don't think he's any religion really. He was brought up to do right by people, to help when people need it. His parents did that. They gave him morals. I don't think they preached religion to him.

This plus that fact he is DC's flagship character lead me to assume they wouldn't want him benig biased to anyone religion, and so present him as none.

[Xofenroht]

What you all seem to fail to understand is that you don't have to be Christian to believe in God. I never said he didn't believe in God, I just said he might not believe in the Christian.
I mean, geez, Judeo-Christian faiths aren't the only ones out there promoting the existence of a supreme being. Some of you guys are acting as if God is exclusive to just one religion.
Seriously, get a grip.

[BrianWilly]

You said, and I quote:
This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.
This is a faulty way of looking at Christianity, and people have been telling you it's a faulty way of looking at Christianity, and you just go on looking at Christianity like that:confused:. It has nothing to do with whether or not God is patented to one religion or not, it has to do with your argument not holding up.

People have said that geographically and culturally speaking it makes most sense that Superman is Christian. They have brought up his conversations with Father Leone. They have brought up Pa Kent's leaning towards Christianity. You keep acting like we're pulling this Christianity thing out of our asses, which is clearly not the case.

I've asked people to explain why they think Superman is Jewish, since I don't know too much about Judaism, and so far no one has given me any indication of this...so I don't know where you're going with this whole "Christianity doesn't own God" thing.

[Xofenroht]

No one said Superman was Jewish. If they did, I think they were suggesting that his creators were Jewish, so therefore they didn't think he would be portrayed as Christian. The idea of human perfection being Christian, when this idea of human perfection was personified by Jews? This is probably why it's argued that he couldn't be, simply because of the people who created him.

My argument overall is saying that despite all of the things which would make Superman seem Christian, he probably isn't. I'm acknowledging that all of these things did occur, I never suggested that they didn't. I think I read the issue where he spoke to a priest, but the fact still stands. Regardless of his being raised by conservative Christian parents in an area with a high concentration of conservative Christians, he's still not necessarily Christian. That's all I'm saying. Besides, all I've been saying is based on my opinions of Superman as the alien he is. SUPERMAN may not be Christian but the Clark Kent persona might be. As Superman he doesn't have to blend in, therefore he doesn't have to make it look like he's apart of the majority of people living on Earth. As Clark Kent he has to adopt a certain view about how he thinks the average man would be.

[fifthfiend]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

[Xofenroht]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

What the hell kind of reasoning?

[dk_thebatman]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

I hope that's a joke.... Because otherwise I'm gonna shed a tear for the death of good logic

[The Question]

No one said Superman was Jewish. If they did, I think they were suggesting that his creators were Jewish, so therefore they didn't think he would be portrayed as Christian. The idea of human perfection being Christian, when this idea of human perfection was personified by Jews? This is probably why it's argued that he couldn't be, simply because of the people who created him.

My argument overall is saying that despite all of the things which would make Superman seem Christian, he probably isn't. I'm acknowledging that all of these things did occur, I never suggested that they didn't. I think I read the issue where he spoke to a priest, but the fact still stands. Regardless of his being raised by conservative Christian parents in an area with a high concentration of conservative Christians, he's still not necessarily Christian. That's all I'm saying. Besides, all I've been saying is based on my opinions of Superman as the alien he is. SUPERMAN may not be Christian but the Clark Kent persona might be. As Superman he doesn't have to blend in, therefore he doesn't have to make it look like he's apart of the majority of people living on Earth. As Clark Kent he has to adopt a certain view about how he thinks the average man would be.


1) How do you know Ma and Pa are conservative Christians? They've never been portrayed as such.

2) I don't think he'd fake a religious beleif on a day to day basis just to blend in. And personally, I don't think of SUperman and Clark as two seperate entities. Just two sides of the same coin. If Superman isn't religious, I don't see why Clark would pretend to bve religious. Really, he seems like an agnostic humanist to me. He beleives that there may or may not be some higher power, but doesn't really care, and is more interested in how humans can develope on their own.

[hippie_hunter]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.
Considering that Wonder Woman is a champion of Athena, a was once a god, the Spectre is the Spirit of God's Vengance, Hawkman is tied to the Egyptian gods. Its safe to assume that Batman does believe in gods, but he just doesn't worship them

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

WTF :confused:

[rigel7soldiers]

Well, Batman's more a

Barman doesn't believe they're gods, more than likely. Rather, that they're pan dimensional beings, or something like that. Gah, this sorta thing was explained in Hellstrom's ongoing, if I could just find te words..

Sorta like how Asgard is just anothr dimension, rather than some place in the mountains where those who have domain over all live.

[SuGarRush]

Ok now.
Obviously Batman realizes that there are supernatural powers at work that cannot be explained by science. It doesn't mean he worships them, but he's definetly not an Atheist.
Superman if he holds to any religion is most likely Christian. Based on the location he was raised in, the values he has portrayed as taught to him by Pa nad Ma (who are Christian), these factors point at Christianity. His tendencies towards humanism however tend to lend themselves to the idea that he might not have any particular belief system.

The most important thign to remember is

Clark puts on a costume to become Superman

Batman puts on a costume to become Bruce


Clark is who he really is, superman is what he dresses up as.

[Not Jake]

On Superman and Christianity, I mean, I have no problem believing he's Christian, considering the whole point of Superman is that he's really still that farmboy raised by Ma & Pa Kent. Who cares if he found out he's an alien, believing in God entails the belief that God is a universal entity, not just creator of Earth. Really, what's the prob?

[Xofenroht]

1) How do you know Ma and Pa are conservative Christians? They've never been portrayed as such.

2) I don't think he'd fake a religious beleif on a day to day basis just to blend in. And personally, I don't think of SUperman and Clark as two seperate entities. Just two sides of the same coin. If Superman isn't religious, I don't see why Clark would pretend to bve religious. Really, he seems like an agnostic humanist to me. He beleives that there may or may not be some higher power, but doesn't really care, and is more interested in how humans can develope on their own.

I never said they were originally, someone else said it to argue against me. Remember, in my post I said I'd acknowledge these things.

[The Question]

Ok now.
Obviously Batman realizes that there are supernatural powers at work that cannot be explained by science. It doesn't mean he worships them, but he's definetly not an Atheist.
Superman if he holds to any religion is most likely Christian. Based on the location he was raised in, the values he has portrayed as taught to him by Pa nad Ma (who are Christian), these factors point at Christianity. His tendencies towards humanism however tend to lend themselves to the idea that he might not have any particular belief system.

The most important thign to remember is

Clark puts on a costume to become Superman

Batman puts on a costume to become Bruce


Clark is who he really is, superman is what he dresses up as.

I agree with ya' here. But as for Superman, I really think that he doesn't have any particular beleif system, simply because I think he's seen too many beleifs and heard too many opinions in his travels to tie himself down to any one. At least, that's how see it.


I never said they were originally, someone else said it to argue against me. Remember, in my post I said I'd acknowledge these things.


Sorry. Didn't read it carefully enough.

[Bullseye]

Very interesting thread. I've never really payed close attention to a DCU character's religion if the character was religious.

[The Question]

Sidious: RISE, Lord Religion in the DCU thread!





Also, about Superman's Kryptonian name being Jewish: It's based on the Hebrew phrase "Kol El," which means "everything that is from God."

[Bullseye]

Does that mean that Superman is Jewish?

[The Question]

No. But his creators were. Man their story was sad. Joe Shuster went blind, and Jerry Seigle's later work on the Human Torch solo series for Marvel was an abysmal failure. Stan Lee had to rewrite alot of Jerry's scripts because they weren't that good. And they never saw a dime of royalties from Superman. :(


EDIT: Actually, they did get a decent settlement from DC. But not the millions that Superman had made.

EDIT: Sorry for the tangent. :O

[Feline]

Jeeze, why are so many people adamant about Superman not being a Christian? The guy was raised in Kansas. Maybe he's just a non-practicing Christian.

But frankly, I have a feeling that most DC heroes are essentially Universalists. Some Universalists believe that practically all paths are right on some level, and you only have to pick the one you want. Seeing as how we know several patheons of Gods exist in the DC universe, as well as one all-mighty force The Spectre works for, I don't see how anyone in the JLA isn't into Universalism.

I don't think the heroes themselves are universalists. I think the writers just don't want to favor any one particular religion. I think they want to make sure that all those religions are right so the readers don't feel like they are saying a certain religion is not correct. Also, I don't see why a martian CAN'T be a Chrisitan. Also, the Bible doesn't mention a lot of things, if God created the universe, that includes Kryptonians and martians. It would include them. Just because there isn't a Bible there, does not mean they are not believers in Christ or God.

I don't go to Church or pray before meals, that does make me a non=practicing Christian? I follow the moral codes that Christianity is based on and I do pray. I just pray in my head while I'm laying down and going to sleep. You can be atheist and have moral codes, too, but what really is a non-practicing Christian? I don't go up to candles and pray, would that mean that I am a non-practicing Christian because I don't kneel before I pray? No. Science is the study of the Universe, if God created the Universe, then you get my point. Animals are not mankind, yet it says in verses that animals look to God for sustenance and deliverance, so God sent his Son to die for them, too. I don't think that "mankind" really means "humans".

Why would he even care though?? Doesn't he do whats right because he feels it right, and not to please some god or get some reward after he is dead


I don't do good things to go to Heaven or get a reward either. I just do good things because I feel it's right. I don't get up and say to God "God, please make me do good things because you say so." I do them because I feel that it's right.

[Feline]

Sidious: RISE, Lord Religion in the DCU thread!





Also, about Superman's Kryptonian name being Jewish: It's based on the Hebrew phrase "Kol El," which means "everything that is from God."

Well, that's probably because he was created by Jweish writers, right? Also, the Old Testament is studied in the Chrisitan faith. My name is a variation of Kaile from the Hebrew word "a crown, a laurel." I'm also Jewish by blood, but I am not by faith.