Reckoning Discussion Thread (100th episode, Spoilers)

[avidreader]

i think its a little before that. she sees clark. not when she gets out and talks with lex.

Yeah, you're right. It is when she first gets out of the car she looks over to the roadside. With the camera angles it was hard to tell if she was looking at the bus driving past or if she was indeed looking to the bushes and sensing that Clark was there.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Here is my point and the reason why this show pisses me off just like that fact of Lois having a baby in SR. This may not follow nor does it have to follow the comics to a tee but it is still based off of the heroes that we all know and loved and grew up with. Now some of you may have got into Superman from just watching the show or movies and thats all you may know of him so some of you are like who cares but I grew up on both and I right now see this show as how they did Gwen in Sins of the past because right now they are killing many of the people on this show and really need to get back to basic on what made this show magic when John Kent died they did it. When he told Lana the truth they did it. But how they mind wiped everything was poorly done and no matter how great some parts maybe when you do a main point like that and do it very poorly that is what will stick out the most and this Lex Lana thing just adds on to it for me.


we heard you........the first 300 times you posted that

[Spaceballs]

sensing that Clark was there.

How would she "sense" Clark was there ? She has Special Abilities now ?

[Tron5000]

What really sucks is that Clark has now lost the 2 people he loved most. Much more painful than 1.

[Tron5000]

How would she "sense" Clark was there ? She has Special Abilities now ?

I wonder if she saw Clark and knows that he stopped the bus. She'll certainly keep digging into the meteor showers as she has been doing for months. I wonder if she'll still be able to add it all up.

[Spaceballs]

I posted a gif of the Bus Scene few pages back if anyone wants to find it & get it up here. It DOES seem like she 100 % SEES Clark STOPPING the Bus

[Mister J]

However, Clark did see last night how Lana's knowing could lead directly to her demise, something he has always worried about.
True. However, I see that as one instance (that he intervened in and stopped the second time around). If Lex were hell bent on finding out, couldn't he just go after Martha, Chloe, Lois or anyone else close to Clark. Yeah, if Lana and Clark got engaged, it might tip Lex that she knows, but clearly Lex is aware that someone other than Lana currently knows. They haven't fleshed out a reason (if one at all) that htere is something particular about Lana knowing that endangers her more than anyone else, if endangering her at all. The universe has found its balance for Jor-El bringing Clark back. I just see that as a plothole.

On another note, when Lois said she would be lucky to end up with someone as honorable as Clark, does anyone think this sets up some Clark-Lois action either later in this season or in the next?
Nah. I think they're just screwing with us and foreshadowing what we all know will be. The two of them may drop this front like they can't stand each other and be a little more outwardly friendly toward one another.

[ang_hulk]

who died?

[avidreader]

How would she "sense" Clark was there ? She has Special Abilities now ?

Did you see the Pilot? There were two instances in that episode when she sensed Clark was there. The two have a connection, that's what draws them to each other.

[Spaceballs]

who died?

Bob Sagat :eek:

[Tron5000]

Lex going after Martha or Chloe or somoeone else wouldn't have the same effect as Lana. Lex and Lana are close, and he's saying, "After all I've done for you, how can you not tell me?" That won't work with anyone else.

[user123456789]

I wonder if she saw Clark and knows that he stopped the bus. She'll certainly keep digging into the meteor showers as she has been doing for months. I wonder if she'll still be able to add it all up.

IIRC, IMO, she sees clark grabbing the bus from behind as she drives by.

then when she gets out of the car, there is a moment of her looking into the bushes (where clark is), then Pa kent drives by and she looks at him. (or vice versa, i haven't re-watched it yet)

[avidreader]

I wonder if she saw Clark and knows that he stopped the bus. She'll certainly keep digging into the meteor showers as she has been doing for months. I wonder if she'll still be able to add it all up.

I'm thinking this is exactly what is going to happen. They want to show us that Lana is an intelligent girl and capable of finding out the truth. Now what she does with that truth will be the thing to see.

[Mister J]

Jonathan has a real disgusted look on his face when he saw Lana hanging with Lex. Although, I did like the reference someone made earlier about the hands of time passing from Lana to Jonathan in that scene.

[Spaceballs]

I wonder how long before she tells Lex & the 2 get Closer

[Zing79]

I’ll be ending my part of this debate for the day, but before I go, I’ll leave with this parting shot:

Smallville rarely rises above the mediocrity of TV, but it’s a beautiful thing when it does. This is one of those episodes! Thematically, this is the best episode Smallville has ever done. (Take note that I’m saying thematically, because plenty of episodes have been edited, and shot that were better).

Some big themes are there to be dissected, and if you pay close enough attention you’ll notice some very good work from the writers helping to drive home large themes as well as smaller more subtle changes (that occurred during this episode and that will occur in the future).

If you took the themes from this episode, hired a good director to make sure it was paced properly, and expanded it to a theatrical release, it would have made for one of the greatest Superman stories ever told. Critics would have LOVED the themes taking place in this move.

Feel free to discuss while I’m gone for the next 12 hrs.

[Pixiedust]

However, Clark did see last night how Lana's knowing could lead directly to her demise, something he has always worried about.

On another note, when Lois said she would be lucky to end up with someone as honorable as Clark, does anyone think this sets up some Clark-Lois action either later in this season or in the next?

One of Superman's greatest fears is that something will happen to someone he loves because of who he is and what others would do to him because of that knowlegde. That's why he feared Lana knowing. Because something bad did happen to her because of her knowing. Lex chased her and she got into a car accident.

Pete and Chloe knew but he had to tell them. It isn't like he just decided it was time they knew. His hand was forced.

You could still say his hand was forced with Lana too but it was because he was afraid of losing her. Not because she had or was on the verge of figuring out his secret. She wasn't that close like Pete and Chloe were.

He saw Lana die once because she knew his secret. It's perfectly inderstandable why he wouldn't tell her again.

As for leading up to some Clois action, this little Clois heart of mine would not be adverse to it should that happen. And with Al's quote about restrictions being lifted after the movie come out, I am holding out hope for a bit of a Lois and Clark relationship beyond just friendship although I don't think it will be an all out romance.

[triplet]

You mean this one, Spaceballs?

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7346/03up.gif

Does kinda look like she saw him stop the bus.

[avidreader]

This is an interesting Poll. Go vote and check out the results. It's to do with Reckoning.

http://wb11.trb.com/entertainment/wbnetwork/stv-smallville-pkg,0,5580330.special?coll=wpix-home-nav&fif

[Spaceballs]

You mean this one, Spaceballs?

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7346/03up.gif

Yeah thats the one I posted thanks for finding it :up:

Thread got so damn big

[Happenstance]

Just realised its a shame they couldnt get Pete back for a quick cameo at the funeral

[avidreader]

I’ll be ending my part of this debate for the day, but before I go, I’ll leave with this parting shot:

Smallville rarely rises above the mediocrity of TV, but it’s a beautiful thing when it does. This is one of those episodes! Thematically, this is the best episode Smallville has ever done. (Take note that I’m saying thematically, because plenty of episodes have been edited, and shot that were better).

Some big themes are there to be dissected, and if you pay close enough attention you’ll notice some very good work from the writers helping to drive home large themes as well as smaller more subtle changes (that occurred during this episode and that will occur in the future).

If you took the themes from this episode, hired a good director to make sure it was paced properly, and expanded it to a theatrical release, it would have made for one of the greatest Superman stories ever told. Critics would have LOVED the themes taking place in this move.

Feel free to discuss while I’m gone for the next 12 hrs.

Another great post. :up:

There's a thread over at Ksite, just one that I'm reading, that this would work beautifully in.




http://wb11.trb.com/entertainment/wbnetwork/stv-smallville-pkg,0,5580330.special?coll=wpix-home-nav&fif

[Spaceballs]

Just realised its a shame they couldnt get Pete back for a quick cameo at the funeral

I brought that up last night I guess no one noticed

[Happenstance]

I brought that up last night I guess no one noticed

I do hate it when characters that you'd expect to be at a funeral arent. Obviously I know that sometimes actors cant make it but I doubt they even asked him.

[Spaceballs]

I do hate it when characters that you'd expect to be at a funeral arent. Obviously I know that sometimes actors cant make it but I doubt they even asked him.

Pete is not just any Character. Hes been Clark Friend just like the next day after the Kents found him :(

[Mister J]

Pete is not just any Character. Hes been Clark Friend just like the next day after the Kents found him :(

A plot hole in Smallville? The hell you say.

[Spaceballs]

A plot hole in Smallville? The hell you say.

Oh theres plenty of Smallville Plot Holes that puts all the Plot Holes in all 6 Star Wars Movies to shame

[Happenstance]

Maybe aswell a hug from Lois. Obviously these things arent too important but I do like to see interaction between those two.

[avidreader]

I do hate it when characters that you'd expect to be at a funeral arent. Obviously I know that sometimes actors cant make it but I doubt they even asked him.

Well Al Gough said that they tried to get him back for Jinx and Spirit and "he wasnt available".

So I doubt he would make himself available for a two second shot.

[Spaceballs]

Well Al Gough said that they tried to get him back for Jinx and Spirit and "he wasnt available".

So I doubt he would make himself available for a two second shot.

Heck even a PHONE CALL from Pete congratulating the Kents on BEATING Lex would have been

[Happenstance]

Well Al Gough said that they tried to get him back for Jinx and Spirit and "he wasnt available".

So I doubt he would make himself available for a two second shot.

Well whatever the reason I think its a shame, would have been nice to see Pete come back to comfort his friend. He'd practically been made part of that family.

[avidreader]

Well whatever the reason I think its a shame, would have been nice to see Pete come back to comfort his friend. He'd practically been made part of that family.

It would be nice for him to pop in every now and then and if the actor doesnt want to make himself available to the show then I think they could replace him. He's been gone for well over a season now.

[Happenstance]

Im not sure about replacing him, ive never liked that being done in tv shows. A simple mention from Clark to Chloe saying he'd had a chat with Pete recently would do me.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Just realised its a shame they couldnt get Pete back for a quick cameo at the funeral

he was too busy inciting race relations on 7th Heaven... ;)

wouldve been amusing though if they had a look alike or a lifesize cutout of him there...

[Happenstance]

he was too busy inciting race relations on 7th Heaven... ;)

wouldve been amusing though if they had a look alike or a lifesize cutout of him there...

Lol, thats such a great idea! They could have used the scene from Whitney's dads funeral

[PenguinDust]

I thought it was a good episode, but not the earth-shattering event that it was hyped to be. Sure, Johnathan is gone, but we all saw that one coming. Even some of the early reviews stated that fans of the movie would be pleased with how the mythology was being handled...although, the modern comic mythology is different as reflected in L&C. I, personally, am going to miss Pa Kent. I liked the interplay between father and son in this series and especially in L&C. Granted, L&C was a romantic comedy and SV is more in the vein of a teen soap, but understanding that, I think JK's presence was even more important. Finding strong father-figures in popular media is difficult these days. Too often, film and television developers either cast the father as villian, absent, or completely bypass any sign that a father exsisted. Think of it, now the only father-figure on the show is that of Lionel, and he's a manipulative liar to say the least. But that's a topic for another thread.

I, too have some questions after this episode, though. Obviously, what is on the photo that Lionel had. I assume that is was the peice of "dirt" that the guy Lex hired to dig into Johnathan's/the Kent's back history had when Lionel offed him at the phone booth a few week ago. I guess any of the theories circulating around this forum that Lionel may not actually be Lionel and was in truth Jor-el can be put to rest. In my opinion, Lionel used Johnathan's dislike of Lex against him so that he would accept his sizable campaign contribution. He made it seem that he was more interested in stopping Lex than he was in ensuring that there would be someone in Topeka that he could control (or so he imagined). Sure, Johnathan certainly expected that Lionel had exterior motives to providing aid to the Kent campaign, but I think he manipulated Martha and Lois (who influenced JK) into believing it was all about Lex, and therefore, I believe, that Johnathan hoped that they might be right.

Another question I have is what happened to Lois? It looked like somehow a water cooler spilled onto the floor and something (a toaster? a fax machine) then caused a current to go across the puddle and knocked Lois out. That's a pretty convenient set of circumstances to separate Lana from Clark. Why didn't anything like that happen in the first timeline? We, as viewers, didn't even have a hint that something like that was avoided the first time but with things running different the second time through, it was unavoidable. Personally, I always thought of the timeline like a series of dominos. Something has to either kick off a string of events, or interceed to change them. In either sense, events don't just happen randomly unless one prescribes to the notion that the timeline was trying to correct itself. But then, wouldn't Lana die regardless of what Clark did? This is why time travel (or a restart if you prefer) always makes my head hurt. I'm surprised that when Clark came back from the future everyone didn't have snake tongues or that it rained donuts. :)

As to Johnathan's death, I understand why Clark didn't touch Lana at the accident sight (very bloody btw-definately not transmission fluid) but why didn't he rush his father to the hospital? He could have picked him up and zipped him to the emergency room in a second. Was he so prepared for a death as Jor-el warned, that he let him pass away there at the farm? Will this occur to Clark in the sense that he will blame himself and believe "I should have done more"? Hospitals get heart attack victims everyday, and early medical treatment can be the thing that saves a person's life. I think if Johnathan had died in an ER with doctors trying to save him and being unable to do so would have made more sense to me than him slipping away in the Kent's driveway. I understand the homage to the film, but I don't like it much.

I still want to know what happens to Jonathan's senatorial seat, but that will be something that will likely be revealed in future episodes.

As to the flight scene, I think it falls much more closer into the "leap tall buildings in a single bound" catagory. When he moves through the sky as Kal-el did, then I'll say he can fly.

One final observation, when Clark said "I'll always need my father" I thought it was as good as when Mcbain's partner displayed the photo of his boat, the "Live-4-Ever." :D

[Happenstance]

Another question I have is what happened to Lois? It looked like somehow a water cooler spilled onto the floor and something (a toaster? a fax machine) then caused a current to go across the puddle and knocked Lois out. That's a pretty convenient set of circumstances to separate Lana from Clark. Why didn't anything like that happen in the first timeline? We, as viewers, didn't even have a hint that something like that was avoided the first time but with things running different the second time through, it was unavoidable. Personally, I always thought of the timeline like a series of dominos. Something has to either kick off a string of events, or interceed to change them. In either sense, events don't just happen randomly unless one prescribes to the notion that the timeline was trying to correct itself. But then, wouldn't Lana die regardless of what Clark did? This is why time travel (or a restart if you prefer) always makes my head hurt. I'm surprised that when Clark came back from the future everyone didn't have snake tongues or that it rained donuts. :)

Well in the first timeline Lana was there to stop Lois from falling and the second time around she wasnt. This allowed Lois to fall, knock herself unconscious and obviously knock over some things on her way down which we see later on (the water and toaster).

[Phantasm]

Coldplay's 'The Scientist' reminds me of the events taking place in this episode.

"Come up to meet you, tell you I’m sorry
You don’t know how lovely you are
I had to find you, tell you I need you
Tell you I set you apart
Tell me your secrets, and ask me your questions
Oh lets go back to the start
Running in circles, coming up tails
Heads on a silence apart

Nobody said it was easy
Oh it’s such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said that it would be this hard
Oh take me back to the start
I was just guessing at numbers and figures
Pulling your puzzles apart
Questions of science, science and progress
Do not speak as loud as my heart
Tell me you love me, come back and haunt me
Oh and I rush to the start
Running in circles, chasing our tails
Coming back as we are

Nobody said it was easy
Oh it’s such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said it would be so hard
I’m going back to the start"


I'm still confused tho, so from now on Clark will never even consider letting Lana in, because if he does she'll die?
:confused:

[Happenstance]

He always says that he cant tell her most seasons, by next season he'll probably be wanting to again.

[KikiDee]

How would she "sense" Clark was there ? She has Special Abilities now ?

I think Avid meant more like she probably saw him out of the corner of her eye before he took off. She looked like she thought she was seeing things.

[Mike_D202]

You know...for someone who was just elected state senator, not very many ppl showed up for his funeral.

[user123456789]

You know...for someone who was just elected state senator, not very many ppl showed up for his funeral.

thats my first inclination too

but maybe they just wanted close people there

but then again wtf was lionel doing right behind martha

but......

maybe at his 'viewing' the entire town showed up, but the funeral was reserved for close ppl only?

[avidreader]

I think Avid meant more like she probably saw him out of the corner of her eye before he took off. She looked like she thought she was seeing things.

I've just watched that scene again, and she began looking curious from the moment she saw the bus in view. Then when she steps out, she frowns as if she did see Clark out of the corner of her eye, much like she did at Lex's funeral in Exile.

[Mike_D202]

Yea maybe more ppl went to his wake.

[The Incredible Hulk]

You know...for someone who was just elected state senator, not very many ppl showed up for his funeral.

sometimes only family and close friends attend funerals, most others usually just wind up going to the viewings.

[BaK]

father and his angels
lights in the night
a silent house...

http://static.flickr.com/35/91930430_820d736b2b.jpg (http://static.flickr.com/35/91930430_820d736b2b.jpg?v=0)

[Mike_D202]

you didnt quote all. because this was a joke. you see?

Clark stated he cant be with lana but now he knows she really loves him but shed be in danger if she knew the truth: did we watch a spiderman movie or what:D ?

I dont know man, its like that with EVERY superhero because they all have enemies and loved ones.

But I bet you we'll see another Spidey shirt-rip in Spider-man 3. :supes:

[Thunder Emperor]

Tony_Montana and all those who said this eps had a mind wipe, there was none, becasue at the end of the day clark never told her his seceret. it's called time travel. time travel does not include mind wipe, it mean you go back in time before anything you did actually happened.

[mathhater]

Say what you will about the episode, but this does open the door for something completely fresh for the Superman mythology. Never, in any incarnation of Superman have we seen Martha, in a substantial role, without Jonathan.

In the early serials, his parents are hardly shown.
In the "Adventures of Superman" (1950's) although Clark's father does pass away (he may or may not have been named Jonathan...can't remember at the moment) but we never hear mention of his parents again
In the movies, yes Jonathan dies, but we only see Martha once or twice after that, and she's dead by the third movie.
In the animated series, both parents are alive
In Lois and Clark...ditto
In the comics...ditto

So here's hoping Smallville will actually use Martha in this fresh territory...Should be interesting.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Martha: "Any big decision has risks with it."

Jonathan: "Sometime it's just hard to look over at your son and realize your talking to a man. A man who doesnt need his father anymore."

ooh creepy foreshadowing.... :eek:

[Happenstance]

Yeah I think there were a few quotes from Pa Kent in that ep wasnt there that pretty much showed he was a goner?

[avidreader]

Well Martha takes over the Senate seat according to the spoilers for Fragile.

[The Incredible Hulk]

thats actually a real law in Kansas...

[Spaceballs]

Well Martha takes over the Senate seat according to the spoilers for Fragile.

& you were against that / didnt believe it :down

[avidreader]

& you were against that / didnt believe it :down

When did I say that? I know nothing about American politics and dont pretend to.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Avidreader for Senator!

[Spaceballs]

Well I hope we find out SOONER that Martha is Senator. Though I dont see her taking the seat RIGHT AWAY. I guess she can have time to herself at first

[The Incredible Hulk]

Fragile is a few episodes away (like 4 I think) in Smallvilel time that's like months

[avidreader]

Avidreader for Senator!

Will you be my Campaign Manager?

[Brainiac 8]

Hey everyone, sorry, I'm not able to post as much anymore since I changed jobs.:(

This episode though, I have such mixed feelings about.

Plus
-Jonothans death was very sad and well done. You could see the pain Clark was going through.
-Clark "flying" with Lana.
-The homages to Superman:TM.
-Chloe is still alive!!!!!:D
-It was really heartbreaking to see Lana and Clark finally end their relationship, all because Clark wanted to save her.

Negative
-I didn't like that they back peddled on the Lana knowing thing, after five years...I WANT HER TO KNOW!!!!
-Jonothans gone.:(

Not a horrible episode though, I really did enjoy it.

R.I.P. Jonothan Kent, the show will never be the same without you. *Sniff*:(

[triplet]

You know...for someone who was just elected state senator, not very many ppl showed up for his funeral.

The graveside service for my grandmother was held seperately from the funeral, which was in her church.

The graveside service is more for close friends and family, not for a larger group like what would fit into a church.

My grandmother was catholic, so I don't know how that might be different in protestant funerals. Hers was the only graveside service I ever attended.

[avidreader]

He says in the interview that they are doing 24 shows?

Schneider Talks Smallville's 100th

John Schneider—whose character of Jonathan Kent played a key role in Smallville's 100th episode, which aired Jan. 26—told SCI FI Wire that he knew what was coming, but used his mixed emotions to fuel his performance. (Spoilers ahead!) In the episode, "Reckoning," Clark Kent (Tom Welling) watches as his father dies, fulfilling a prophecy from earlier in the season and preventing the death of Lana (Kristin Kreuk).

Schneider said in an interview that he was sorry to leave the show behind, but that he used those emotions in his final scenes with Welling. "It was very sad, which helped," Schneider said. "It really, really helped. The last scene I shot was pulling Clark out of the car when Lana had passed. ... I worked until 3:30 in the morning and it was probably 18 degrees. It was cold out there. But the last thing I did was that with Tom, which I think is very appropriate. The very last thing Jonathan Kent does in the show is tell him it's not his fault. So he's trying to protect him. The very last thing John Schneider did was pull [Clark] out of the vision of seeing Lana dead."

Schneider said that he was surprised to hear that his character would be killed off so soon this season. "[Co-creator and executive producer Al Gough] called me and said, 'Hey, John. This is a call I hate to have to make, but you kind of knew it was coming at some point,'" Schneider said in an interview at the Television Critics Association winter press tour last week. "'I said, 'Oh, I understand. When it's going to be?' I'm thinking, 'We're doing 24 shows this year. So it's going to be show 23, maybe?' No, it's show 12. And he'd called me during show nine."

From the standpoint of the story, Schneider said that he understands the need for his character to die in order for Clark to move forward toward his destiny as Superman. "It happens for great reasons," he said. "[He's] trying to live up to his father's expectations, or trying to fill the gap that was left, fill the void that was left by [the death]. The passing of Jonathan Kent in Clark Kent's life is, I think, what causes him to become Superman. Not just somebody with super powers. ... To me it was like John Wayne in The Cowboys, an empowering death, which is so important. Because if Jonathan Kent had just died, that would have been terrible. It would have been meaningless." Smallville airs on The WB Thursdays at 8 p.m. ET/PT.

[Spaceballs]

Fragile is a few episodes away (like 4 I think) in Smallvilel time that's like months

Well would be nice to see Martha approached in the next Episode by whoevers in charge & offer her the Seat & he / she can tell Martha that it takes however long before everything becomes Official but the choice is HERS to take it or not when things are ready

[echostation]

wait a second I thought Lana definitely knows now cuz don't some of the preview pictures show her in the fortress of solitude and Clark proposing to her?

[echostation]

wait a second I thought Lana definitely knows now cuz don't some of the preview pictures show her in the fortress of solitude and Clark proposing to her?

[The Incredible Hulk]

wow, that cant be be right... the most theyve ever done was 23 episodes in Season 2 an that was only because they shot "Redux" in Season 1 but never aired it. Then again, the break for the holidays was about 2 weeks shorter than usual so anything is possible I suppose....

[avidreader]

That 24 episodes has really got me thinking. Can we confirm it anywhere? I guess Craig could find out. James do you know?

[user123456789]

wait a second I thought Lana definitely knows now cuz don't some of the preview pictures show her in the fortress of solitude and Clark proposing to her?

that happened in the first 20 minutes, then we did a 'restart'

watch the episode!

[user123456789]

wow, that cant be be right... the most theyve ever done was 23 episodes in Season 2 an that was only because they shot "Redux" in Season 1 but never aired it. Then again, the break for the holidays was about 2 weeks shorter than usual so anything is possible I suppose....

didn't season 2 have 22?

[The Incredible Hulk]

didn't season 2 have 22?

nope

http://www.kryptonsite.com/epguideseason2.htm

Season 2 had 23 and Season 1 had just 21

[echostation]

boyscout... try to understand that where I am they don't play smallville at all... hence i've been trying to find a site or somewhere or someone who might have a good summary recap that'll be detailed enough to figure out what's going on... that's how i've been following this show for years now, have never had the chance to see many of the recent eps.

[triplet]

nope

http://www.kryptonsite.com/epguideseason2.htm

Season 2 had 23 and Season 1 had just 21

Lineage, however, was actually filmed during season 1 and wasn't broadcast until season 2 so they still shot 22 each season.

[avidreader]

Lineage, however, was actually filmed during season 1 and wasn't broadcast until season 2 so they still shot 22 each season.

Wasnt it Redux?

With the show 24, shooting 24 episodes, its possible that the others are going to step up.

[triplet]

Wasnt it Redux?

With the show 24, shooting 24 episodes, its possible that the others are going to step up.

Oh, my bad... got something mixed up I guess. :D

[The Incredible Hulk]

Wasnt it Redux?

With the show 24, shooting 24 episodes, its possible that the others are going to step up.

Yup it was Redux, says so on the link I provided. Says it was filmed right after Tempest, the S1 finale. I remember that episode being strange becuase the continuity from episodes like "Red" didnt jive

[avidreader]

You can tell that they did a few voice overs too.

Like Martha saying, my salary from Lionel isnt enough.

[Abaddon]

So Clark trying to play God and failing (as far as I know a new theme) using the plot device of Clark telling Lana his secret (as fas I know he's never sat down and told her about it) is considered the same themes, using the same characters?

I'm kind of lost.


I was referring to Clark hiding his secret from Lana for 5 seasons.I dont have much of a problem with the Reckoning plot.

[muscaremy]

did anyone else think todays abc family repeat of relic was a great one to be on after reckoning.... it basically shows jor-el losing someone he (supposedly) cared for after they recently found out about him..... and clark saw all this in visions... ironic no...

[triplet]

I was referring to Clark hiding his secret from Lana for 5 seasons.I dont have much of a problem with the Reckoning plot.

I'm not sure a plot point like that qualifies as a theme...

[user123456789]

i've been re-watchin the funeral scene over and over...

ok i think only people who have the ability to re-watch the scene will understand me..

ok my video is 42:17 so i will put timestamps

(41:11) Clark & Martha watching Pa Kent being lowered
(42:05) Clark is next to angel statue (metaphor) and looks at Martha
(42:06) Martha looks back at Clark next to angel statue.... ANYONE HERE AT THIS POINT FEEL MARTHA REALIZES THE SYMBOLISM WHEN SHE SEES CLARK & STATUE?

her face goes from sad, to shocked, to hope, to being proud of what the future holds for her son in a span of 3 seconds...

[muscaremy]

yea i get wat ur sayin... noticed marthas looks.... but forgot bout the angel behind him

[user123456789]

yea i get wat ur sayin... noticed marthas looks.... but forgot bout the angel behind him

great! i was waitin for someone to reply before i went to bed.

goodnight all

[King Krypton]

To those whom this may concern,

Congratulations. You've done what Tim Burton, Jon Peters, JJ Abrams, McG, Brett Ratner, Lorenzo DiBonaventura, and all of their cronies failed to do. You've even done what Deborah Joy LeVine, the Salkinds, Golan-Globus, and the comic book creative teams from 1993-present couldn't do...

You have utterly destroyed Superman beyond repair.

Your incessant bragging about the "Clexana = Superman vs. Lex" triangle and how Clark's jealousy and anger would spur him to declare Lex his arch-enemy was painful enough. A selfish, stalker-level crybaby consumed with jealousy to the point of declaring his friend his enemy over a woman neither of them end up with is not, never has been, and never will be Superman. But you crossed the line with the 100th episode, in which to ressurect Lana, your Clark Kent in Name Only (henceforth CKINO) was ready and willing to condemn another innocent life in her place...and sacrificed his own father in Lana's stead. The boy you claim is destined to be Superman, a man who cherishes and respects all life to the degree that he would NEVER barter it, much less for his own benefit, forfeit the life of his own father just to save a woman he will never have...which, of course, is all setup for your vaunted Clexana.

Your CKINO is nothing but a selfish, gutless murderer.

Everything that Superman has ever fought against, CKINO embodies. This character you have Tom Welling playing has none of the morality, none of the honor, and none of the courage that Superman is supposed to possess in abuundance. He doesn't care about human life unless it suits his own desires. He's willing to sacrifice his own FAMILY to get what he wants, and condemned his father to death for that very reason. He wants to rid himself of what should be his responsibility to humanity. He's jealous, selfish, petty, and a backstabber of the worst sort. Be totally honest with yourselves: doesn't all that stuff sound like a description of Lex Luthor instead of Superman? Because that's exactly what CKINO is. He's Lex Luthor with superpowers. You haven't written a definitive backstory for Superman. You haven't even written a story about the Superman of Siegel and Shuster at all. You've written a story where the boy from Krypton grows up to be the worst kind of evil possible. Worst of all, you expect people to buy this evil in the guise of one of the most famous heroes in American mythology. Well, I've got news for you...Frank Miller turned Batman into a very similar embodiment of evil, and fans have objected to it for years. And now, years after he first did it, he's trying to compound the damage he did, and both the fans AND the DC editors are fighting back. Peter Tomasi, the editor who restored Green Lantern after a decade of misguided character assassination (and I speak as a fan of both Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner), has spoken at length about wanting to restore Batman to the hero he once was and should be. Miller's villain in Batman's clothing is on his way out. Do you really think your Lex Luthor in Clark Kent's clothing is going to fare any better?

Mind you, I've never liked Tom Welling. I've admittedly disliked him from the start, with his snide comments about not wanting to bother with the source material and his cracks about how he'd never be interested in playing the adult Superman. His disrespect for the character he's playing has long been a sore point with me. (I also think he looks like the love child of Angelina Jolie and Chris Kattan, but that's beside the point.) Originally, I was irked by the thought of seeing him in any version of the Superman costume because of my distaste for Welling himself. If you had left well enough alone, it wouldn't have been so bad. But now the thought of Welling in a Superman costume revolts me for a totally different reason...every time I see Welling now, I'm going to see him as the "Superman" who cares so little for human life that his own father didn't matter when it came to his girlfriend. I'm going to see him as the scumbag who turned his old friend into his enemy by being a jealous prick over said friend dating his ex. I'm going to see him as the "Superman" who DESERVES to die at Lex Luthor's hand. And any "Superman" who provokes those feelings in me is no Superman at all, and he has no right to sully the costume by wearing it. He's someone Superman would devote his life to fighting. You've done the worst thing to Superman you possibly ever could: you've made him the villain of his own saga. CKINO isn't a role model or anyone to look up to, as Superman should be. He's someone you want to see punished for his sins. Maybe you think you're making Superman "cool" by making him such a horrible excuse for a living being that his ultimate switch to superheroing will be penance for the horrors he's committing. But if that's the case, then you have no clue who or what Superman is. And you have no right whatsoever to pass your garbage off as Superman.

I never thought I'd say this, but you've topped Clexana as the worst thing you could do to Superman. So go right ahead. Make CKINO so jealous and upset over Lex and Lana that he turns Lex into his enemy. Make Lex Luthor a sympathetic antihero whose anti-Superman cause is 100% justified. Make Lana Lang the central character in the Superman mythos and the whole reason the mythos even exists--you pretty much have already. Make Lois Lane as much of a slacker or a tramp (or both) as you want. Hell, go ahead and turn Chloe Sullivan into Lois Lane for no good reason and completely screw things up. You've already violated the integrity of the mythos and Millerized its "hero." You might as well cut loose and completely make it unrecognizable.

But know this: Miller's Batman never caught on with the general public, and is now being phased out of the comic books. Whatever horrors you perpetrate on what little remains of Superman in your show won't fare any better. You're going to wind up just like Lois & Clark; an embarrassing footnote that has no impact on the greater mythology. And with Superman Returns restoring the HEROIC, LIFE-AFFIRMING, HONORABLE Superman (with Brandon Routh picking up from Chris Reeve, no less), your plunge into total irrelevancy will happen much sooner than you could possibly anticipate.

Good riddance to the lot of you.

Signed,
A furious Superman fan

[user123456789]

your argument is mostly based on the fact that "CKINO" KNEW he was sacrificing his father for a woman he would never end up with...

but he DIDN'T know.

Judging by your sig alone, your obviously Anti-Welling. I WOULD say you don't belong here, but everyone has a right to their opinion, and you states yours very thoroughly. BUT OFCOURSE you had to include SEVERAL Anti-Welling comments and a Pro-Routh one.

"Nolan and Goyer: making Burton and Schumacher look like cinema gods by comparison."
Thats gotta be the biggest BULL i've ever read.

[KalKai]

*yawns*. LOL.

[The Incredible Hulk]

yea i get wat ur sayin... noticed marthas looks.... but forgot bout the angel behind him

that was the same angel they had behind him in the Pilot when he met up with Lana in the graveyard BTW

[The Incredible Hulk]

To those whom this may concern,

Blah, blah, blah. I've come into the Smallville forum to personally insult everyone here because I'm an insecure tool who thinks his opinion is the be all, end all of Superman. I'm so insecure about my own version of Superman that I need to put childish one liners about certain versions in my sig so as to feel above the rest of people, because like I said, I'm the smartest person on Earth when it comes to Superman, comics, etc.

Regardless of the fact that I've missed the most elementary concepts of the show and jump to incorrect conclusions because of my blind bias against it and it's star, I feel the need to boast about how inferior it is, well because I can. On top of that I'll try to incite some kind of pissing match between the fans here and those who are looking forward to Superman Returns, a version of the character where Superman just packs up and leaves those he's sworn to protect for 6 YEARS no less, and while his gone the love of his life gets knocked up within JUST A FEW MONTHS. But yet I'll criticize Smallville for taking too many liberties with the canon. Because like I said, I'm a better Superman fan than you. Regardless of what men like Chris Reeve, Alex Ross, MArk Waid, and Jeph Loeb think, not to mention countless other comic artists, I'll still call the show trash because I've contributed much more to the character and know him better than those clowns. I'll also ignore the fact that each and everything Smallville does is approved by the heads of DC comics beforehand, thats right the same guys who I'll tout as knowing the true Superman. Contradictory? No I'm just smarter than you, you just cant comprehend it. Oh yeah and those fine folks I just talked about at WB Pictures have a say so in what the show does to, but pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

In closing, I'll mention once more how much better I am than all of you, and go curl up in my tiny one bedroom apartment that I reside along with only my comicbooks and Tom Welling dartboards.


Signed,
A pompous ass who embodies all of the characteristics and behaviors that Superman would oppose but is too dumb to know it.

P.S.
Please buy my novel off of Amazon where I talk about how much Smallville wounds my fragile heart.


Here I put your post through my bull**** translator so everyone else who doest speak idiot can read it.

I guess he thought the more he wrote the less of an idiot he sounded like :confused: Silly him

[triplet]

So did you think the longer you made the post the less stupid you would sound Mr. Superman Fan High Horse Almighty? Your points on the show are so misguided and off base theyre not even worth wasting the bandwidth to reply to.

I didn't bother even reading it. Too damn long...

But from you've said maybe I'm glad I didn't read it now.

[Threshold]

I also think he looks like the love child of Angelina Jolie and Chris Kattan, but that's beside the point.

I really disagree with pretty much everything you said, but this statement is spot on. :O

[DarthSkywalker]

They didn't destory Superman. I do think they hyped it way to much, and the episode was not nearly as good as it seemed it would be. The writting was again shotty, and it seemed way to repetitive even before the day that wouldn't end.

Still damn fun.

[jas01724]

Good riddance to the lot of you.I think you're wonderful. :D

Catch you in the office next time we're both getting the ol' Paxil prescription refilled?

[Squatlow]

To those whom this may concern,

Congratulations...
(...lots of text...)
Signed,
A furious Superman fan

Well, just so long as you're not angry with anyone. I mean, I'd have concerns if
you were angry with anyone.

You...
aren't
angry...
right?

Of course you're not.

I'm very relieved...

In anticipation of news confirming your well being, I remain,

Yr. Obed Svt
Squatlow

PS - I believe my secretary has Dr. Phil's office number if...uh...well...y'know.

[AgentPat]

Daily Variety
1/25/06

Super expectations
Skein satisfies devoted comicbook fan base
By THOMAS MCLEAN

"The sincere respect for the character and the underlying mythos really comes through," says Paul Levitz, president and publisher of DC Comics. "Anything that introduces new generations of people to our characters has to be good for us. There's a lot of people who love Clark Kent and Lex Luthor who didn't four or five years ago, and we think they'll be fans for generations to come the same way those who saw the George Reeves show way back when did."

The show's ability to reach a large audience has given "Smallville" a shot at becoming the longest-running live-action superhero comicbook series in history: It's about to surpass the 104 episodes of Reeves' "Adventures of Superman" skein and looks likely to top the 120 episodes of the 1960s "Batman" next season.

While some fans may still not like that the show deviates from the comicbooks, that group is relatively small, Levitz says. Still, the show has used more elements from the comics as it goes on, which Levitz says enriches the show for both comicbook fans and the general audience.

"It shows that this show is taking place in a rich universe," he says.

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936819&c=2109WB synergy in full force
Welling, quality of show aids 'Smallville's' success
By MICHAEL SCHNEIDER

...the success of "Smallville" has even helped bring a theatrical movie to fruition. Bryan Singer is directing "Superman Returns," starring Brandon Routh as the latest Clark Kent.

It's easy to underestimate how "Smallville" helped jumpstart an entire franchise. But prior to Tom Welling taking over as Clark Kent, the Superman character had been limping along for several years.

The last major Superman TV show, "Lois & Clark," suffered dismal ratings toward the end of its run. And Superman hadn't had a movie presence in years.

...WB Entertainment president David Janollari says several factors led to the show's success, including Welling, and the "fresh take on Superman's teenage years and the consistent quality of the show." And, of course, "the cohesive way divisions like DC, Warner Bros. TV, the WB and the producers have worked closely together to produce a hundred different episodes that remain true to the character's inherent tone and mythology," he says.

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936821&c=2109Leaps tall ratings
Not even Kryptonite can slow show's momentum
By RICK KISSELL

"We thought we could never get the rights (to Superman), so we went in a different direction," Gough recalls. "But at the same time, Peter [Roth] was trying to secure TV rights to Superman."

Gough and Millar were then off and running, creating their own "Smallville" mythology while trying to stay true to Superman characters in the DC Comics.

"Batman had always been considered cool and Superman kind of cheesy, so we wanted to ground Superman in reality," Gough says.

They literally grounded him, too, setting up a "no tights/no flights" rule at the outset to make a young Clark Kent more relatable to auds.

"Superman's always been malleable to the times, from the '50s to the '90s when he was a yuppie, so we went the angst-ridden teen route," Gough says. "He's a contemporary teen that just happens to be from a different planet."

Among the chances taken by the creators were the addition of Chloe as a confidante to Clark, and beefing up the character of Lionel Luthor, father of Lex.

"Lionel wasn't intended to be a long-term player, but he affects Lex so much and we were so intrigued by the parallel of extreme parenting," Gough says. "Why does Clark Kent become Superman and Lex who he is? It's really how they are raised."

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936825&c=2109In touch with their inner teen
Producing team knows what it takes to tap youth market
By KATHY TRACY

... adds, their success with teen audiences isn't so much about their ability to tap into any particular zeitgeist as it is their sense for narrative. [b]"Good stories are good stories, whether teenage stories or adult stories," says Robbins. "It's just about telling stories that interest you, or something you can be passionate about."

Robbins credits "Smallville's" creative maturity to its solid foundation. "We based the show on Clark Kent being an archetypal hero and imbuing it with all these values set in mid-America. It wasn't going to be trendy, it wasn't going to be a faddish show and replace 'Buffy' in sensibilities. And I think that's responsible for some of its staying power -- building characters that had a real place to go."

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936816&c=2109Cleared for takeoff
Series flourishes where other comic heroes failed
By BRIAN LOWRY

...From the "Superman" series in the 1950s to the "Biff! Wham! Pow!" of "Batman" in the '60s to "The Incredible Hulk," "Spider-Man" and "Wonder Woman" in the '70s, comics-based programs had variously indulged in high camp or been characterized by puny special effects that, at best, were highlighted by savaging a tear-away wall.

Even the big-budget "Superman" movie, starring Christopher Reeve -- with a section showcasing Smallville's amber waves of grain that provided the basis for a teenage Superman series -- yielded its share of teeth-gnashing among fans, what with its over-the-top villain, Lex Luthor, and his equally absurd sidekicks.

"Smallville," however, proved a pleasant surprise -- a show that paid homage to the Superman mythology while carving out a path of its own, one that boldly reimagined the character's Kryptonian roots while staying true to the underlying source material.

...Still, fealty to the spirit of the comics alone would hardly explain "Smallville's" resilience, surviving a handful of time-period shifts, including the always dicey proposition of being relocated in its fifth season, when viewer loyalty is easily shaken. Part of the show's durability stems from its playing on multiple levels to different constituencies. At various moments, "Smallville" is an action hour, sci-fi romp, teen soap, family drama and rethinking of comicbook mythology -- often all within the same episode. Small wonder that when the program was honored by the Museum of TV & Radio, the audience included children, teenage girls swooning over Welling and middle-aged men, asking about Clark's wardrobe and where the TV show exists vis-a-vis the films.

...Superheroes have become ripe fodder for splashy theatrical incarnations thanks to the blessings of computer graphics, but it shouldn't be overlooked that "Smallville" was part of that revolution -- blazing its own big red "$" sign across the small screen, and helping to do penance for the sins of TV series past.

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936818&c=2109

More of this and I will ban you.--Dew

[Alpha and Omega]

Thought the episode was alright, I think as was said it needed another half hour or hour to flesh it out some more, felt choppy and rushed. I really hope them saying this changes everything really does do just that, time to kick it into gear, no more fotw with a scene of clark looking at a family photo sighing only to go hang with Chlanois.

What's up Eveyhttp://superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif I missed Smallville:( I'm hearing mixed things about it though. Some people say that it was great(probably die hard fans), and others like yourself were left wanting more. Honestly, I haven't watched most of the episodes this season. I didn't like season four that much, but I started watching at the beginning of this season. I didn't think that the father would die this soon though. It may not have pleased people, but I still wish I had seen it.:(

[Dew k. Mosi]

Hey, everyone listen up! King Krypton has a perfect right to express his opinions. You don't like it, debate him with intelligence and facts, not name calling and flaming. I will close this thread entirely if this is not adhered to.

[Mike_D202]

Regardless of the fact that I've missed the most elementary concepts of the show and jump to incorrect conclusions because of my blind bias against it and it's star, I feel the need to boast about how inferior it is, well because I can. On top of that I'll try to incite some kind of pissing match between the fans here and those who are looking forward to Superman Returns, a version of the character where Superman just packs up and leaves those he's sworn to protect for 6 YEARS no less, and while his gone the love of his life gets knocked up within JUST A FEW MONTHS. But yet I'll criticize Smallville for taking too many liberties with the canon. Because like I said, I'm a better Superman fan than you. Regardless of what men like Chris Reeve, Alex Ross, MArk Waid, and Jeph Loeb think, not to mention countless other comic artists, I'll still call the show trash because I've contributed much more to the character and know him better than those clowns. I'll also ignore the fact that each and everything Smallville does is approved by the heads of DC comics beforehand, thats right the same guys who I'll tout as knowing the true Superman. Contradictory? No I'm just smarter than you, you just cant comprehend it. Oh yeah and those fine folks I just talked about at WB Pictures have a say so in what the show does to, but pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

That pretty much summed up King Krypton's letter. I think if people took out the vulgar name calling to King Krypton that they have in fact used FACTS to debate with him about. Example: AgentPat's response (just take out the "ASS" comment).

If anybody posted a letter like that over at the Superman Returns threads, it would DEFINATELY be closed. Heck, I posted my opinion about the Superman Returns action figures over there (no flaming) and it was closed.

[Tron5000]

Wow, lotta hate.

I say, 100 brought a lot to the series.

Bravo, guys!

[BaK]

For the people who actually loved the episode..

If a separate thread (Reckoning appreciation thread) doesn't get a great response due to being somewhat
''disrespectfull'' to all the forum opinions, I will keep its contents here too..

The first and I think the most important question worth debating here, is
- what(th) was this episode all about..

I will start it with arguing what was established by now by Zing very well.. Still, I do not agree with its main premise..

So what was it about?

It actually was about:

- WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF CLARK DECIDED TO TELL HER - Lana - THE SECRET..

We have seen amazing story that gives tragic and amazing answer(s) to that, with true heroism of a real hero exposed, making extremely hard decisions, and yes - hard lessons learned..

Zing's argument (if I may interpret it from my POV) is that -
as the tragic lesson he learns, (he is not a god), is way more important
in build up of a character that Superman is then a ''subplot'' of ''dealing with a girlfriend'' - then the episode and the story has to be about that..

That is a ''honest misreading'' as I see it, so lets debate it,
including all the (nicely forced/misused so far) discussion tools - Hamlet comparisons..

One more thing - If Jor-El said that only Clark's life could bring his love back to life, it is obvious that Clark would even sacrifice himself for her..

That's what it puts it on the level with the greatests love stories ever told..

And if you love the casting of C&L as much as I do - stuff just needs no explaining.. (back to ''square one'' stuff (unfortunately) included - but who said (real) life was fair)..
:)

[Tron5000]

Sorry I didn't make it to the "Appreciation" thread.

I respectfully disagree with what you felt the episode was about.

I thought #100 was about the 1 trial Clark had yet to endure (as laid out by Jor-El).
That trial was learning that he could not alter the fate of the Universe. That They were not Gods. That no matter how Clark may try to affect the Will of the Universe, the Universe will win.

I feel (though I wish Lana did, and still hope she will learn Clark's truth) Lana's part played a huge role in this. Her death was the entire catalyst for everything else that happened in the episode.

I was pissed the 1st time I watched it, because I pretty much knew what was going to happen, but after the 2nd viewing, I understood why and how everything happened (and had to happen).

[Mike_D202]

I thought #100 was about the 1 trial Clark had yet to endure (as laid out by Jor-El).
That trial was learning that he could not alter the fate of the Universe. That They were not Gods. That no matter how Clark may try to affect the Will of the Universe, the Universe will win.


*high fives* :up:

[Zing79]

Wow...just...wow
I've seen some things in my time....

DO NOT reply to King Krypton -- if you do, you validate what is hands down the dumbest trash I've EVER read online (that is not an exaggeration either). There are 10+ pages he could have read through that should have made him pause and think about what he was going to type. It’s not our responsibility to debate him on this. We ALREADY preemptively answered everything in that post.

/IGNORE

To anyone with a dissenting opinion of this episode that I may have replied to; I’m sorry. Clearly when I was assuming some of you were off the mark, I had no idea what off the mark REALLY meant. It takes a post like KK’s to help grab some perspective :)

[Happenstance]

At least when you replied to posts people made you were polite about it and explained you opinion well, it was more of a conversation on differing opinions than anything.

[mellyM]

I think all the arguing should stop and we should all celebrate how much of a dork I am : The cake from our small gathering on Thursday:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/MELANIEMM/100_cake.jpg

[rumpuso]

^ And it's as yummy as it looks!

[Mike_D202]

I think all the arguing should stop and we should all celebrate how much of a dork I am : The cake from our small gathering on Thursday:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/MELANIEMM/100_cake.jpg

LOL thats awesome :up: I think I'll watch "reckoning" a second time right now.

[BaK]

Sorry I didn't make it to the "Appreciation" thread.

I respectfully disagree with what you felt the episode was about.

I thought #100 was about the 1 trial Clark had yet to endure (as laid out by Jor-El).
That trial was learning that he could not alter the fate of the Universe. That They were not Gods. That no matter how Clark may try to affect the Will of the Universe, the Universe will win.

I feel (though I wish Lana did, and still hope she will learn Clark's truth) Lana's part played a huge role in this. Her death was the entire catalyst for everything else that happened in the episode.

I was pissed the 1st time I watched it, because I pretty much knew what was going to happen, but after the 2nd viewing, I understood why and how everything happened (and had to happen).
Very nice.
Now my turn to respectfully disagree :)


You talk about ''Fate of the Universe''..


Actually, there was no ''Fate of the Universe'' as in doom, catastrophy or anything like that.. It was extremely personal thing - fate of his love, fate of his loved ones..

You can not have it more personal then that, and/but at the same time more ''universal'' in a sense that concerns any ''mortal'' living being..


And talking about - not being gods..

Well, actually - saving the life of Lana the way he and Jor-El did, does not come any closer to ''gods'' work, whatever the hack that might be..

Did they affect the ''Will of the Universe'' - Yes. By reversing to a different outcome.
Did they (he) win - No. But it was not about winning. He just had to do what he did in any possible way he could..

It was about tragedy, sacrifice, heroism, and all things love - all caused by letting in on a secret with the greatest of fears of an outcome that might turn upside down his - and his loved one's - ''Fate of the Universe''..
:)

[buggs0268]

edited by me

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hey, everyone listen up! King Krypton has a perfect right to express his opinions. You don't like it, debate him with intelligence and facts, not name calling and flaming. I will close this thread entirely if this is not adhered to.

can we perhaps get a clearer definition of what trolling on the Hype is then? Because last time I checked, that post was it. Hell I've been on the site for almost 5 years and have seen much less than that deleted by C.Lee. Why is one person's insult a "perfect right to express one's opinion" whereas another one's is a threat of banning? How about a little consistency?

[buggs0268]

Jonathon had to die. It is canon. I know, he doesn't die post crisis, But he does pre crisis. It is the deciding moment where Clark decides to use his powers for mankind. It is also the moment he realizes loss. It always has been.

I really liked this episode. I mean they have changed the legend a lot with this show (Clark never meets Lois till he works for the "Daily Planet") but I like Durance. I think she will be known as the definitive Lois in the way that Reeve is remembered as the definitive Superman. But, I saw this episdoe really getting back to the Superman mythos, and also the tragedy of Superman. He was destined to never have a normal life. He was destined to have to live for other people and not himself and to give up what he wants. To me, when he let go of Lana's hand at the funeral, I saw that he knows that his selfishness caused a greater Loss, and he realized that his life is really no longer going to be lived for himself. He may be a God. He has all these powers. But it sucks as his life will never be what he wants to make with it, but what he is destined to be by default. I think, before this, if his dad had died, he would have held her hand tightly at the funeral. But he let it go.

[BaK]

King Kretin.. The guy is a fundamentalist tsunami..

What ''amuses'' here is the mod who apparently sees no flaming in that verbal diarrhea..

[Super_Ludacris]

That dude King Kryptron needs a girlfriend badly and stop taking out the fact that his Superman costume got shrunk in the washer and his Krypto comics got undersold on e-bay on the episode.

Anyways.
What I meant to say is I dont understand why people think that the mythology has been destroyed. He's a DC Character after all, the mythologies and origins get changed all the time. If anything that's one of the things I like. From Elseworld, to the post and pre crisis to the various tv/film/animated incartions. They are all very different.
The main consistency is that if the story is still good it's fine. So what if Lana is central in this mythology? It's still a good story. You guys have no problem bringing in a character who doesnt exist (Chloe)? what does it matter? One of the fun things about Characters about Batman and Superman is that while everyone argues about what there definitions are but the true test is that they stay interesting and relevant through updated formulas

Do the knowledge you herbs

[buggs0268]

King Krypton. Wait, okay wrong fourm but I just noticed this in yoru sig

Nolan and Goyer: making Burton and Schumacher look like cinema gods by comparison

Huh? Okay that id it. I think I migh have to put you on my banned list for that. B&R better than BB. That does it..

[JAX]

Alright....

Maybe old news but Reckoning ratings are in and SV stayed in 5th but jumped from 3.9 to 4.4 (thanx to K-Site)I think thats a hike up of about 1/2 million fans. Correct me if Im wrong. What do u guys think good jump?

[BaK]

Jonathon had to die. ...

before this, if his dad had died, he would have held her hand tightly at the funeral. But he let it go.

That's not how I experienced/remember the scene - ''him letting go'', so I rewatched to be sure..
It was very subtle and delicate, they both kind of ''let it go'', with Lana leaving and giving him space to be with his thoughts..

As was (greatly) underlined by the song played, ''I grieve'' - not ''We grieve''..

[Mike_D202]

can we perhaps get a clearer definition of what trolling on the Hype is then? Because last time I checked, that post was it. Hell I've been on the site for almost 5 years and have seen much less than that deleted by C.Lee. Why is one person's insult a "perfect right to express one's opinion" whereas another one's is a threat of banning? How about a little consistency?

I guess it really doesnt matter about other ppl's negative opinions about the episode are, SMALLVILLE has made more money over the past 5 years than SR will make. SR will be a blip and forgotten in a few years as SMALLVILLE will outlast the flick.

The movie isnt even out yet and the SR fans are already comparing the two. Its rediculous. They close threads over at the SR forums for LESS than what king krypton wrote and now we got mods threatening to close us down cause we retaliated when a SR fan blasted the show and the fans?!

There, I'm done ranting.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Alright....

Maybe old news but Reckoning ratings are in and SV stayed in 5th but jumped from 3.9 to 4.4 (thanx to K-Site)I think thats a hike up of about 1/2 million fans. Correct me if Im wrong. What do u guys think good jump?

check the ratings thread, there's a press release from WB. They jumped from about 5.5 million total viewers to like 6.3

[Super_Ludacris]

King Krypton. Wait, okay wrong fourm but I just noticed this in yoru sig

Nolan and Goyer: making Burton and Schumacher look like cinema gods by comparison

Huh? Okay that id it. I think I migh have to put you on my banned list for that. B&R better than BB. That does it..


For real, that and his rant kinda contradict on another. I mean damn what is dude's defining vision of Superman and Batman

[AgentPat]

can we perhaps get a clearer definition of what trolling on the Hype is then? Because last time I checked, that post was it. Hell I've been on the site for almost 5 years and have seen much less than that deleted by C.Lee. Why is one person's insult a "perfect right to express one's opinion" whereas another one's is a threat of banning? How about a little consistency?Thank you, Hulk! KK's post is the epitome of trollism, and is directed at every single SV fan on this forum, not the writers or producers of the show. "To whom it may concern" indeed. There was no desire or intent on KK's part to "debate him with intelligence and facts." His post did exactly what he intended it to do: piss off every reader here, even the people that didn't particularly like the episode in question. Now I admit my arse comment was a bit out of line, but COME ON! I'm not a n00b to Internet message boards. Recognizing when somebody has gone from posting an honest opinion into trolling for a reaction isn't all that difficult.

[GothicPowerMix1]

Maybe Dew got ticked at you guys because maybe EVERY TIME someone says something bad about Welling, Smalllville, about Welling NOT being Superman you guys ALWAYS end up OVER REACTING like say now. I agree with Dew his post was ONLY HIS opinion & he did NOT bash anyone. You guys just do NOT agree with his opinion & are ticked off witht he way he does not like Smallville & you HATE it when ANYONE say anything bad about any part of the show. KK did NOTHING but STATE HIS OWN OPINON & you guys are the ones bashing him because you dont agree with it maybe thats why Dew got ticked ? You guys have to admit you guys get a LITTLE excited, overreacts whenever someone says they do NOT like something about Smallville, Welling, Welling not being Superman. Happens all the time especially at BlueTights (ironically with certain same users here) EVERY time someone compared SV & SR & you guys get off & mad when people think SR is better then SV in the SR forums over at BlueTights. The BEST thing you guy sshould simply do in situations like these when you dont agree with someones OPINION is simply IGNORE it. You guys become WORSE then the person getting you all worked up & you show that EACH time something like this happens. Remember this is just a TV Show.

[avidreader]

Wow! :eek:

That was an interesting read to go with my Saturday morning coffee.

[Super_Ludacris]

That's why I say, when people troll like that the best thing is when fundamentalist like that comes on all you can do is clown them

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Maybe Dew got ticked at you guys because maybe EVERY TIME someone says something bad about Welling, Smalllville, about Welling NOT being Superman you guys ALWAYS end up OVER REACTING like say now. I agree with Dew his post was ONLY HIS opinion & he did NOT bash anyone. You guys just do NOT agree with his opinion & are ticked off witht he way he does not like Smallville & you HATE it when ANYONE say anything bad about any part of the show. KK did NOTHING but STATE HIS OWN OPINON & you guys are the ones bashing him because you dont agree with it maybe thats why Dew got ticked ? You guys have to admit you guys get a LITTLE excited, overreacts whenever someone says they do NOT like something about Smallville, Welling, Welling not being Superman. Happens all the time especially at BlueTights (ironically with certain same users here) EVERY time someone compared SV & SR & you guys get off & mad when people think SR is better then SV in the SR forums over at BlueTights

I actually debated for a moment whether I should even come back to these forums. Someone said a while back that if people grouped together too much over here it could make this place turn into another KS... I think the fear is now, will it be worse than KS? :down

The SV forums are not what they could be. This team up mob mentality has done nothing but cause backlash.

[Super_Ludacris]

I can think of other Smallville sites that are worse but point taken

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I can think of other Smallville sites that are worse but point taken

Oh most definitely. I'm just saying that the possibilities of how bad things could get if out of control, are worse than we could imagine before.

[Super_Ludacris]

I mean I'm sure K-site is like a scene from War of the Worlds or something right now

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I mean I'm sure K-site is like a scene from War of the Worlds or something right now

LOL I went there like once and rolled my eyes right back on out with the rest of myself of that forum.

[GothicPowerMix1]

Oh most definitely. I'm just saying that the possibilities of how bad things could get if out of control, are worse than we could imagine before.


This site IS getting WORSE each time somoene posts a negative opinion simple as that. The BEST thing to do is if you dont like an opinion & if you cant respond with a decent tone then simply ignore it & be quiet. Because like Dew did with Pat warning her do it again or she will get banned you guys become WORSE then the guy who is simply stating his opinin & you dont agree with it. You do this EACH TIME & EACH TIME this happens you guys get WORSE & WORSE. ESPECIALLY when someone does this at BlueTights. The BEST thing to do is just ignore the post & put the guy on your Ignore List. If you dont like what he has to say simply IGNORE HIM.

[Super_Ludacris]

LOL I went there like once and rolled my eyes right back on out with the rest of myself of that forum.

Went there once never returned. The problem is while I know people have problems with characters on the show, those guys will create or believe situations which make them worse to the point where they are damn if they do or damn if they don't

[KikiDee]

Will you be my Campaign Manager?

I'll vote for ya!:up:

[GothicPowerMix1]

I mean I'm sure K-site is like a scene from War of the Worlds or something right now

You guys are right now a scene from Independence Day. All this fighting over a guys simple Opinion & you simply dont agree with it. I honestly dont see how what he wrote IS bashing when all he did was talk NEGATIVELY about the show & then you guys got all pissed at him over his SIGNATURE for crist sakes. When that is also HIS freaking opinion. You guys are being VERY CHILDISH

[KikiDee]

The graveside service for my grandmother was held seperately from the funeral, which was in her church.

The graveside service is more for close friends and family, not for a larger group like what would fit into a church.

My grandmother was catholic, so I don't know how that might be different in protestant funerals. Hers was the only graveside service I ever attended.

That's pretty much the norm with all the ones I've been to. Other people are allowed to visit the grave site, but mostly just family go.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Maybe Dew got ticked at you guys because maybe EVERY TIME someone says something bad about Welling, Smalllville, about Welling NOT being Superman you guys ALWAYS end up OVER REACTING like say now. I agree with Dew his post was ONLY HIS opinion & he did NOT bash anyone. You guys just do NOT agree with his opinion & are ticked off witht he way he does not like Smallville & you HATE it when ANYONE say anything bad about any part of the show. KK did NOTHING but STATE HIS OWN OPINON & you guys are the ones bashing him because you dont agree with it maybe thats why Dew got ticked ? You guys have to admit you guys get a LITTLE excited, overreacts whenever someone says they do NOT like something about Smallville, Welling, Welling not being Superman. Happens all the time especially at BlueTights (ironically with certain same users here) EVERY time someone compared SV & SR & you guys get off & mad when people think SR is better then SV in the SR forums over at BlueTights. The BEST thing you guy sshould simply do in situations like these when you dont agree with someones OPINION is simply IGNORE it. You guys become WORSE then the person getting you all worked up & you show that EACH time something like this happens. Remember this is just a TV Show.

Dnsk, there's a big difference between having a difference of opinion and being a condescending ass who purposely trolls a forum he could care less about. KK is vastly a case of the latter. He's like that in EVERY forum here, Smallville, Superman Returns, Batman, etc.

When someone posts something negative for the most part, a civil debate will ensue and has in this very thread. Go back through it and read it you dont believe me. When people come here and get out of line and start attacking those who like the show thats when problems start. The fact that you've got JcDc (fresh off of his latest banning from this forum for doing pretty muc the same thing to a lesser degree) agreeing with you, doesnt help your cause.

[Super_Ludacris]

It's people like that make me wonder what there fan films are like. Like when people hate everything i'm atrigued by what there vision of a character should be. It might be good but I can't really compare until I see

[GothicPowerMix1]

Dnsk, there's a big difference between having a difference of opinion and being a condescending ass. KK is vastly a case of the latter. He's like that in EVERY forum here, Smallville, Superman Returns, Batman, etc.

When someone posts something negative for the most part a civil debate will ensue and has in this very thread. When people come here and get out of line and start attacking those who like the show thats when problems start. The fact that you've got JcDc (fresh off of his latest banning from this forum) agreeing with you, doesnt help your cause.

Um I dont care if jcdc agress with me or not Im NOT here to get people to agree with me. So dont think you know things when you clearly DO NOT. I dont do that to you. Also you have nothing to say when people attack the Show & you guys attack the People ? Attacking the show is also someones Opinion & then you turn around & attack him & like I said do NOT think for me & do NOT say things I do NOT say because your just simply DEAD WRONG. Im not here with a "cause" like you think so dont say crap like that either. I ma just VOICING MY OPINION & once again you dont agree with someones opinion & also please do NOT assume you are oh so dead wrong.

[KalKai]

Dnsk isn't it your first time posting here? wtf do you know? If you express your negative opinion in the SR forum they'll call you a troll and close the thread if you created it, now here, a mod and you decide to come in to tell us "it's only his opinion" lol.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Um I dont care if jcdc agress with me or not Im NOT here to get people to agree with me. So dont think you know things when you clearly DO NOT. I dont do that to you. Also you have nothing to say when people attack the Show & you guys attack the People ? Attacking the show is also someones Opinion & then you turn around & attack him & like I said do NOT think for me & do NOT say things I do NOT say because your just simply DEAD WRONG. Im not here with a "cause" like you think so dont say crap like that either. I ma just VOICING MY OPINION & once again you dont agree with someones opinion & also please do NOT assume you are oh so dead wrong.

Wow, you REALLY missed my point. (See I can capitalize words for emphasis too)

Let me make this kindergarten clear for you. KK is a troll, his post was done for no other reason but to incite people in this forum, and to get into yet again another pissing contest between Smallville and Superman Returns. Which is a no no in here according to the mods.

Plenty of other people in this thread have said they didnt like the show and werent responded to the same way because they werent trolling. You can see there very posts in this thread if you page back

Understand now?

[Super_Ludacris]

Dnsk isn't it your first time posting here? wtf do you know? If you express your negative opinion in the SR forum they'll call you a troll and close the thread if you created it, now here, a mod and you decide to come in to tell us "it's only his opinion" lol.


lol harsh

[GothicPowerMix1]

Dnsk isn't it your first time posting here? wtf do you know? If you express your negative opinion in the SR forum they'll call you a troll and close the thread if you created it, now here, a mod and you decide to come in to tell us "it's only his opinion" lol.

Do you & Hulk have to be JACK ASSES every time you respond to someone that doesnt agree with you ?

[KikiDee]

Um I dont care if jcdc agress with me or not Im NOT here to get people to agree with me. So dont think you know things when you clearly DO NOT. I dont do that to you. Also you have nothing to say when people attack the Show & you guys attack the People ? Attacking the show is also someones Opinion & then you turn around & attack him & like I said do NOT think for me & do NOT say things I do NOT say because your just simply DEAD WRONG. Im not here with a "cause" like you think so dont say crap like that either. I ma just VOICING MY OPINION & once again you dont agree with someones opinion & also please do NOT assume you are oh so dead wrong.

Ummm.....wow. You might want to take a breather and calm down. The people on this forum don't have a problem with you expressing different opinions. It's okay that this guy (KK) didn't like the show.

The problem is with the post and how he worded it. It was inciteful. There is no other way it could have been interpreted. The majority of people on this forum are big fans of the show. Him coming on here and posting that is kind of like like a Cubs fan sitting on the Yankees side and screaming about how much he thinks the Yankees suck (not a big sports fanatic so forgive my analogy both baseball right?) and that they're an abomination to the sport.

Hey, it's okay to have an opinion just be thoughtful of where and how you post it. You don't have to be insulting to the main viewership just because you don't approve. What he did is usually considered trolling. You can't just go on a forum to start fights no matter how much it entertains you.

Sorry Hulk didn't see your response took too long to post

[Mike_D202]

Dnsk isn't it your first time posting here? wtf do you know? If you express your negative opinion in the SR forum they'll call you a troll and close the thread if you created it, now here, a mod and you decide to come in to tell us "it's only his opinion" lol.

EXACTLY.

Dew did with Pat warning her do it again or she will get banned

He gives warnings? :confused: :D

The problem is with the post and how he worded it. It was inciteful. There is no other way it could have been interpreted. The majority of people on this forum are big fans of the show. Him coming on here and posting that is kind of like like a Cubs fan sitting on the Yankees side and screaming about how much he thinks the Yankees suck (not a big sports fanatic so forgive my analogy both baseball right?) and that they're an abomination to the sport.

EXACTLY.

[GothicPowerMix1]

Hey, it's okay to have an opinion just be thoughtful of where and how you post it. You don't have to be insulting to the main viewership just because you don't approve. What he did is usually considered trolling. You can't just go on a forum to start fights no matter how much it entertains you.

Just because he does one thing dos it make it okay for you guys to go around & attack him & turn out WORSE then the other guy ? You guys dont like it when tohers o it but you dont care when YOU guys do it ? *******s like Hulk & KalKai make the K-Site Forums look good & that is SAD. You guys here are NO BETTER then any other forum

[Super_Ludacris]

Let's all calm down at the end of the day the most important thing is clear and ok

[GothicPowerMix1]

Dnsk isn't it your first time posting here? wtf do you know?

WOW you guys are even not wanting User Names you have never seen before post here to not post here ? You know this is an OPEN FORUM if you want a Private Forum GO START YOUR OWN. Why dont you SHUT THE **** UP. If you dont like users coming here START YOUR OWN forum. Simple as that if not then like I said SHUT THE **** UP

[Mike_D202]

So anyways...lets get back on topic before Dnsk and King Krypton antagonize more...

[Super_Ludacris]

Guys like let's all make up and get drunk and be happy

[The Incredible Hulk]

Do you & Hulk have to be JACK ASSES every time you respond to someone that doesnt agree with you ?


*******s like Hulk & KalKai make the K-Site Forums look good & that is SAD. You guys here are NO BETTER then any other forum

oh the irony...... who's name calling now? :confused:

That was uncalled for, I didnt say anything derogatory to you, just merely tried to explain a situation. Grow up little boy.

[The Batman]

the hypocracy of this board is amazing....

[Mike_D202]

So does clark actually fly now?? Cause that looked like flying to me :D

[Super_Ludacris]

I think someone is gonna get killed off in this thread.......maybe two

*watches people get banned sipping a pina colada*

[Mike_D202]

I think someone is gonna get killed off in this thread.......maybe two

*watches people get banned sipping a pina colada*

Lets run a poll.

[GothicPowerMix1]

oh the irony...... who's name calling now? :confused:

That was uncalled for, I didnt say anything derogatory to you, just merely tried to explain a situation. Grow up little boy.

Why dont you grow up & stop acting like jerks to users who has a DIFFERENT opinion

[KikiDee]

Let's all calm down at the end of the day the most important thing is clear and ok

:up:

[The Incredible Hulk]

the hypocracy of this board is amazing....

it is insane isnt it? People come and start telling you to behave, and then two posts later they're calling you a-hole..... these are strange days my old friend...

[The Incredible Hulk]

Why dont you grow up & stop acting like jerks to users who has a DIFFERENT opinion


Look, this is just degenerating by the second, and ruiining this thread. Let's just call it a draw and be done with it? K? Here as a show of good faith, have a Superman cookie:

http://www.sunflowerbaking.com/cookies/birthdays/art/superman_cookie.jpg

I ate the eyes already...

[The Batman]

no, no...i'm talking about you and the rest of the mob attacking someone for saying something you dont agree with...yet you guys get to attack SR every chance you get. I didnt even agree with what KK said, yet you dont see me acting like a moron, attacking him. Especially if i constantly diss on SR, and makje up stupid pet names for the actors like "Rufus"

why is it the superman related boards on this site are so pathetic and immature?

[Mike_D202]

no, no...i'm talking about you and the rest of the mob attacking someone for saying something you dont agree with...yet you guys get to attack SR every chance you get. I didnt even agree with what KK said, yet you dont see me acting like a moron, attacking him. Especially if i constantly diss on SR, and makje up stupid pet names for the actors like "Rufus"

why is it the superman related boards on this site are so pathetic and immature?

So...you like batman too huh? Batman rules :up: wanna talk about why bruce didnt show up in this episode?

[GothicPowerMix1]

Look, this is just degenerating by the second, and ruiining this thread. Let's just call it a draw and be done with it? K?

Why couldnt you simply say lets drop it ?

[The Incredible Hulk]

no, no...i'm talking about you and the rest of the mob attacking someone for saying something you dont agree with...yet you guys get to attack SR every chance you get. I didnt even agree with what KK said, yet you dont see me acting like a moron, attacking him. Especially if i constantly diss on SR, and makje up stupid pet names for the actors like "Rufus"

why is it the superman related boards on this site are so pathetic and immature?

no one on this board has attacked SR in months, they put the kabash on that a while ago. That discusssion hadnt reared it's ugly head in here since then until KK felt the need to bring it up again, which is one of the things I took issue with.

[GothicPowerMix1]

no one on this board has attacked SR in months, they put the kabash on that a while ago. That discusssion hadnt reared it's ugly head in here since then until KK felt the need to bring it up again, which is one of the things I took issue with.

Actually going back on this Thread Muscles brought up Superman Returns once but that didnt explode

[The Incredible Hulk]

Why couldnt you simply say lets drop it ?

I dont know, I guess I'm just "wordy"... it's one of my tragic flaws :(

[The Incredible Hulk]

Actually going back on this Thread Muscles brought up Superman Returns once but that didnt explode

thats because everyone knows muscles has a few screws loose and just laughs him off. He's a funny guy like that...

[Mike_D202]

I think the Hulk should have played Superman.

[The Batman]

So muscles wasnt talking SR in this very thread?

[GothicPowerMix1]

So muscles wasnt talking SR in this very thread?

He was, he copied & pasted old ass articles back when the dude was cast

[Mike_D202]

So muscles wasnt talking SR in this very thread?

WHO CARES if people are talking negatively about SR in these forums, its THEIR opinion, right? Apparently thats okay now :o

[avidreader]

I think the Hulk should have played Superman.

10/10 for trying hard. :up:


*******

Anyway, does anyone think that this whole chain of events started because Jor-el had to take over Lionel's body in Hidden.

[AgentPat]

What is it about SV threads that have over 100 pages of posts? Does somebody hang up the flypaper or something when a thread reaches a predetermined size?

KalKai, "Dnsk" is formerly "TheChosenOne," and he had a brief stint as "TillTheEndOfTime." He's been around for a while. He's just using a different handle now.

Mike_D202, Dew is female, but I've never been banned or even warned on these boards (publicly or otherwise), so yeah, I'm a little miffed, especially considering how offensive or trollish somebody *usually* has to be in order to get them banned at the Hype. [shrugs]

Hulk, that cookie looks awesome! LOL In fact, now I'm hungry. Oh well, probably a good thing. I think I'll go take a time out. Later taters! :)

[KikiDee]

So muscles wasnt talking SR in this very thread?

Muscles is harmless.......he's shake your head and roll your eyes harmless.

[Super_Ludacris]

So is this thread over?

[The Incredible Hulk]

It has been "Reckoned" :confused:

[GothicPowerMix1]

So is this thread over?

Unless people stop insulting each other & chill out & just get back to the Topic at hand then eah by end of the day this Thread will get locked

[avidreader]

It has been "Reckoned" :confused:

Have you done a review Hulk?

[Super_Ludacris]

Unless people stop insulting each other & chill out & just get back to the Topic at hand then eah by end of the day this Thread will get locked


Appearntly not then

[The Batman]

WHO CARES if people are talking negatively about SR in these forums, its THEIR opinion, right? Apparently thats okay now :o

so dont cry like babies when someone has a negatve opinion of an episode.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Have you done a review Hulk?

working on it, I had a hockey game last night and then went out for a few beers afterwards, so I didnt get a chance, though after this thread I feel like I've written 100 of them....

[avidreader]

working on it, I had a hockey game last night and then went out for a few beers afterwards, so I didnt get a chance, though after this thread I feel like I've written 100 of them....

LOL!

Should be a good one then.:up:

[GothicPowerMix1]

Appearntly not then

I guess you didnt read Dews post when she said if things did NOT calm down (which they didnt) this thread will get locked so all it will take will be Dews next visit this thread has sealed its fate

[Mike_D202]

so dont cry like babies when someone has a negatve opinion of an episode.

You didnt even asnwer my batman question, how rude is that :o you just responded to the negative post. :down you have failed my test you troll.

[Mike_D202]

I guess you didnt read Dews post when she said if things did NOT calm down (which they didnt) this thread will get locked so all it will take will be Dews next visit this thread has sealed its fate

Things were calming down until you surfaced!

[KikiDee]

10/10 for trying hard. :up::up: :up:


*******

Anyway, does anyone think that this whole chain of events started because Jor-el had to take over Lionel's body in Hidden.

That's an interesting theory. Elaborate please.

I had a thought today and it's probably already been discussed because there's no way I'm getting through all the posts on this thread. Anywho....do you think they had to kill off Jonathan because of the movie?

My husband and were discussing his disappointment with the episode and he made some very valid points. He was giving me various ways of how they would still come up with the end result of having Clark learn what he needed to to evolve and have his dad live and even let Lana know everything. I just started thinking that maybe TPTB requested that things stay somewhat inline with the film. We know that dear old dad's gone in BS's version.

Just a thought.:)

[GothicPowerMix1]

Things were calming down until you surfaced!

Actually NO

This thread was fired up & STAYED fired up after KK post. But hey think what you will

[Mike_D202]

I still think Clark knows how to fly now.

[GothicPowerMix1]

I still think Clark knows how to fly now.

Actually I can see Clark flying only when its needed. He gets around just fine Super Speeding & has been the past 5 Years

[Mike_D202]

Actually I can see Clark flying only when its needed. He gets around just fine Super Speeding & has been the past 5 Years

Or depending on the budget for that weeks eppy :(

[KikiDee]

I still think Clark knows how to fly now.

I know I squealed with joy when it happened so don't bust my bubble and tell me otherwise. :)

[TheBat812]

anybody know the name of the song that was played during the funeral scene?

[Super_Ludacris]

" I mourn" by Peter Gabriel or something

[KikiDee]

anybody know the name of the song that was played during the funeral scene?

They usually list the songs on the WB website. I thought someone had posted it was by Peter Gabriel.

Ooops.... sorry ludacris. Slow computer...slow post. Thanks though good to know.

[TheBat812]

thanks man.

I think it's "I Grieve"

[GoldGoblin]

-Lana should of never been in that car accident.

-Lana should of known about Clark's powers seasons ago.Sucks that it took so long,and sucks that they took it back after they did it.

-Johnathan Kent should of died from the deal he made with Jor-El

-The time travel crystal sucked.

-Sucks that Clark still can't fly.They should make it where he hasn't perfected it.Where he crashes into things when he uses it,so he only uses it once in awhile.Like on that show "The Greatest American Hero".

-Sucks how Clark blames himself on everything that happens.It is so old.They played that card for to many hands.

[The Master]

can we perhaps get a clearer definition of what trolling on the Hype is then? Because last time I checked, that post was it. Hell I've been on the site for almost 5 years and have seen much less than that deleted by C.Lee. Why is one person's insult a "perfect right to express one's opinion" whereas another one's is a threat of banning? How about a little consistency?

Actually, Dew has a point. I'm not for trolling at all, but it's also annyoing when people flame and use insults as an argument, instead of just being civil like most when someone doesn't agree. KK may be an exception, but I've seen alot flamming towards people who didn't deserve it and all they did was state an opinion. It's immature, and I tend to lose patience with people like that.

[echostation]

would posting some Bobby Carsons and Tushar Jones pics as Superman-Smallville hupti Clark help diffuse the Tenshun in this particular crony situation... yay, crony... i used crony yay

[echostation]

or how about we change gear... i asked in an earlier post if someone could post a link up to any site that would have a good summary for this episode that included most of the details... no one bothered, i tried checking tvtome and krypton site but the former has very poor details and the latter has deleted all the spoilers since the episode has already aired... sethu

[avidreader]

:up: :up:

That's an interesting theory. Elaborate please.

Well Clark died and Jor-el had to bring him back because he has this destiny that needs to be fulfilled.

The only way he could do that was to take possession of someone else's body so that he could get Clark up to the FOS and revive him.

Jor-el was able to take over Lionel's body because of the crystal. Having done this, Lionel is now left with a sense of what happened, even if he isnt totally aware of all the details or maybe he is. Doesnt matter really.

This sets him on the course of digging up evidence on Clark (whatever it was in that photo). Real tangible evidence.

That in turn led him to assist JK with his campaign all so he could blackmail him with the evidence that he has.

Confrontation then happens in the barn, to start this little blackmail game, but it ends with the tragedy of Jonathan dying, therefore bringing us back to the chain of events that were set in motion in Hidden.

It was because Jor-el had to use Lionel's body that made all of this happen.

Will we ever get to see what he wanted? I'm not sure. Will he go after Martha? Maybe, maybe not.

I had a thought today and it's probably already been discussed because there's no way I'm getting through all the posts on this thread. Anywho....do you think they had to kill off Jonathan because of the movie?

I think they've done it by choice, not because they were put under pressure to do so.

[The Punisher]

VERY WELL SAID. :up:

[Super_Ludacris]

-Lana should of never been in that car accident.

-Lana should of known about Clark's powers seasons ago.Sucks that it took so long,and sucks that they took it back after they did it.

-Johnathan Kent should of died from the deal he made with Jor-El

-The time travel crystal sucked.

-Sucks that Clark still can't fly.They should make it where he hasn't perfected it.Where he crashes into things when he uses it,so he only uses it once in awhile.Like on that show "The Greatest American Hero".

-Sucks how Clark blames himself on everything that happens.It is so old.They played that card for to many hands.


I feel you on this

[The Punisher]

And i second it.

[GothicPowerMix1]

-Lana should of never been in that car accident.

-Lana should of known about Clark's powers seasons ago.Sucks that it took so long,and sucks that they took it back after they did it.

-Johnathan Kent should of died from the deal he made with Jor-El

-The time travel crystal sucked.

-Sucks that Clark still can't fly.They should make it where he hasn't perfected it.Where he crashes into things when he uses it,so he only uses it once in awhile.Like on that show "The Greatest American Hero".

-Sucks how Clark blames himself on everything that happens.It is so old.They played that card for to many hands.

Pretty much sums it up

[avidreader]

Look at the tombstone by Lana's leg.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/suetomup/vlcsnap-5198993.jpg

Emily Eve Dinsmore.

[The Punisher]

Holy ***T Nice find.

[Mister J]

Good stuff, avid. Keen eye. You just made some set designer's day, picking up on that. I wonder how many more are labeled with past characters.

[Venom71]

Look at the tombstone by Lana's leg.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/suetomup/vlcsnap-5198993.jpg

Emily Eve Dinsmore.
:confused:

[Happenstance]

Thats a very good catch there Avid, although when did she die???

[rumpuso]

Poor Martha. Standing there so isolated and alone. This picture just devastates me.

No Jonathan to hold her hand. :(

[LadyVader]

i do have one question:
If Krypton had time traveling techonology, why couldn't they save themselves?

[Happenstance]

I doubt you'd get flamed. I myself wasnt happy with a lot of the episode, some people disagreed with what I thought but we had a convo about it instead of yelling back and forth.

[GothicPowerMix1]

I am surprised they didnt show Alicias grave. Imagine how Clark would have felt seeing that as hes walking to his fathers grave. I know Lanas there but I am sure Clark knows by now that things wont be the same with those 2 anymore. Clark had something with Alicia that hed NEVER have with Lana. They should have included her grave.

[LadyVader]

I doubt you'd get flamed. I myself wasnt happy with a lot of the episode, some people disagreed with what I thought but we had a convo about it instead of yelling back and forth.

As you can see i edited my message. I figured, if it's not worth mentioning, then it's not worth mentioning.
But all I want to mention :D is that I don't understand why Clark always has to wait until telling somebody the truth is more an act of desperation then it is an act of faith. :( In my opinion he is being portrayed as phisically strong, but emotionally weak.
It's a shame Jonathan had to die in order for Clark to grow up. :( At least he died with a clear conscience. :up:

[Happenstance]

Thats a good point about Clark. Doesnt look like there will be anyone left now that he can tell just because he wants to either.

I just hope that now that Clark and Lana have broken up she can focus on being a more interesting character and he can move away from pining over here and onto becoming more of a Superman like character.

[GothicPowerMix1]

Yaso at BlueTights brought up an interesting point. Jor El says there is only ONE Time Crystal. But when Clark goes back in time Clark actually NEVER used the Crystal so shouldnt that still be there ?

[Happenstance]

I guess that Clark just holding the crystal was enough to activate it and send him back to the time he was thinking of.

[GothicPowerMix1]

I guess that Clark just holding the crystal was enough to activate it and send him back to the time he was thinking of.

But still Clark went back in time long enough to the point he NEVER went to the FOS. So the Crystal should still be there. I guess the writers did not think everything through

[Happenstance]

Maybe the FOS isnt affected by changes in the timeline or the crystal itself can detect shifts in the timeline which would render it useless (just making up ideas now to justify things :p )

[LadyVader]

Maybe if they would've said something like: "The crystal can only be used once without f@#$ing up all time" instead of "there's only one crystal". :)

[GothicPowerMix1]

I hope in a Future Episode Clark asks Jor El about the Time Crystal & brings up the fact that he Traveled through Time before he even used the Crystal & Jor El just simply forbids it the Second Time & make the Crystal Disappear

[Kaboom]

But still Clark went back in time long enough to the point he NEVER went to the FOS. So the Crystal should still be there. I guess the writers did not think everything through

wait a second are you saying that my mother has got the hots for me?

precisely.

this is heavy.

theres that word again...heavy. why is everythign so heavy i the future? is there a problm wth the earths gravitational pull?

[GothicPowerMix1]

wait a second are you saying that my mother has got the hots for me?

precisely.

this is heavy.

theres that word again...heavy. why is everythign so heavy i the future? is there a problm wth the earths gravitational pull?

WTF ?

[tonytr1687]

i do have one question:
If Krypton had time traveling techonology, why couldn't they save themselves?

Because they were all dead before they could change things? Jor-El did say to Clark there was only ONE crystal that could do it. The crystal which came from the Fortress which came from the stones which were scattered around Earth...it was only for Clark I presume.

[Venom71]

wait a second are you saying that my mother has got the hots for me?

precisely.

this is heavy.

theres that word again...heavy. why is everythign so heavy i the future? is there a problm wth the earths gravitational pull?
Someones been watching Back to the Future:up:

[Kaboom]

WTF ?

any time theres a time travel story, there are inherit paradoxes. and if paradoexs come up what better movie to quote than back to the future?

[GothicPowerMix1]

any time theres a time travel story, there are inherit paradoxes. and if paradoexs come up what better movie to quote than back to the future?

But funny how these small things could have been cleared up with 5 Seconds of Dialogue :p

[AgentPat]

Look at the tombstone by Lana's leg.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/suetomup/vlcsnap-5198993.jpg

Emily Eve Dinsmore.NICE catch!! :D :up:

wait a second are you saying that my mother has got the hots for me?

precisely.

this is heavy.

theres that word again...heavy. why is everythign so heavy i the future? is there a problm wth the earths gravitational pull?LMAO!! I just watched that this afternoon. Too damn funny!!!

[Venom71]

NICE catch!! :D :up:

LMAO!! I just watched that this afternoon. Too damn funny!!!
Me too :up:

[avidreader]

Thats a very good catch there Avid, although when did she die???

As much as I appreciate the accolades, I cant take credit for that. I found it on another site. :O

any time theres a time travel story, there are inherit paradoxes. and if paradoexs come up what better movie to quote than back to the future?

Brilliant!

Just for the record, I understood what you meant first time around. I love the Austin Powers movie where they're talking about time travel and Basil just turns around to Austin and says, dont ask, its time travel.

[AgentPat]

But funny how these small things could have been cleared up with 5 Seconds of Dialogue :pThe amount of dialog and entire scenes cut from this episode is a travesty. It's quite a bummer because as decent an ep as Reckoning was, it could have been so much more. Everything was so rushed. They just left the bare bones dialog and cut right to the chase - LITERALLY! A great deal of emotional impact was lost in the opening sequence alone. I KNOW there was a ton more dialog there. Clark explained EVERYTHING, and he also told Lana that she was the first person he revealed his secret to out of his own free will. This stuff is pretty damn important, as were her reaction shots. What was left after the editor got to it was an impressive sequence visually, but it just went by too damn fast. Audiences waited five years for that moment, and the editors cut it down to a three minute flash of information before the opening credit roll. People barely had time to ponder the enormity of what just happened. Hell, the missile scene in Hidden seemed longer - and there was no dialog required there. :(

I truly believe the writers set out to pen a 90 minute episode, and it was shot that way. But The WB wouldn't let them have the block for whatever reason, so they had to chop the hell out of the ep in order to make it fit into the 60 minute window. That just sux. I re-heeeeeely hope they include the extended FOS scenes on the DVD.

[avidreader]

Reckoning - Uncut

[GothicPowerMix1]

Reckoning - Uncut

They should really just for the heck of it release an Reckoning Uncut DVD for 10 bucks :up:

[tonytr1687]

The amount of dialog and entire scenes cut from this episode is a travesty. It's quite a bummer because as decent an ep as Reckoning was, it could have been so much more. Everything was so rushed. They just left the bare bones dialog and cut right to the chase - LITERALLY! A great deal of emotional impact was lost in the opening sequence alone. I KNOW there was a ton more dialog there. Clark explained EVERYTHING, and he also told Lana that she was the first person he revealed his secret to out of his own free will. This stuff is pretty damn important, as were her reaction shots. What was left after the editor got to it was an impressive sequence visually, but it just went by too damn fast. Audiences waited five years for that moment, and the editors cut it down to a three minute flash of information before the opening credit roll. People barely had time to ponder the enormity of what just happened. Hell, the missile scene in Hidden seemed longer - and there was no dialog required there. :(

I truly believe the writers set out to pen a 90 minute episode, and it was shot that way. But The WB wouldn't let them have the block for whatever reason, so they had to chop the hell out of the ep in order to make it fit into the 60 minute window. That just sux. I re-heeeeeely hope they include the extended FOS scenes on the DVD.

I know there was a cut scene with Clark and Jonathan in the Fortress...but how do you know there was stuff cut from the opening scene?

[GothicPowerMix1]

I know there was a cut scene with Clark and Jonathan in the Fortress...but how do you know there was stuff cut from the opening scene?

Early spoilers & pictures with Lana in the FOS

[The Master]

Also in the preview for Reckoning, they showed Lionel punching Jonathan during their confrontation, but in the actual episode only Jonathan is seen delivering a blow, but right after he walks out of the Barn, you see Lionel's hand(picking up a crumpled picture or some paper with "dangerous" information), which appears to be bruised at the knuckles.

Clearly an indication of uncut footage.

[AgentPat]

I know there was a cut scene with Clark and Jonathan in the Fortress...but how do you know there was stuff cut from the opening scene?Specifically? Some people were lucky and got to see the footage before it was cut. Of course at the time, nobody knew it wouldn't make it to the episode. A lot of folks including myself were looking forward to that dialog, and it never happened. Truly a bummer. Trust me, it would have made that scene even better than it was.

[tonytr1687]

Specifically? Some people were lucky and got to see the footage before it was cut. Of course at the time, nobody knew it wouldn't make it to the episode. A lot of folks including myself were looking forward to that dialog, and it never happened. Truly a bummer. Trust me, it would have made that scene even better than it was.

What all was said in the cut dialogue?

[AgentPat]

What all was said in the cut dialogue?Believe it or not, it's all in this thread. WAY back there, somewhere. Put a pot of coffee on first though; you might be here for a while. :)

Anybody have the cut and paste? Serene? Trip? Avid? Buehler? One of you guys has to have it, yes? I didn't save it 'cause I *thought* it would be in the ep. Silly me. *sigh* :(

[KalKai]

Don't you remember some of the dialouge pat? "Search This Thread".

[BaK]

I kinda like this interpretation..

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9766/angelareckoning24rqbycarla9vv.gif (http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9766/angelareckoning24rqbycarla9vv.gif?v=0)

[Mister J]

I kinda like this interpretation..

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9766/angelareckoning24rqbycarla9vv.gif (http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9766/angelareckoning24rqbycarla9vv.gif?v=0)

Yeah, "No matter what, I'm here for you. Even if you continue to lie to me, eventually pushing me closer and closer to your eery, bald-headed, sinister, former friend because you think being honest with me will result in my death...I'm here for you."

Couldn't resist.

That said, I hope there is no Lexana or whatever people call it. It makes no sense. Of course, that hasn't really stopped Gough and Millar from doing a few things already.

[BaK]

Yeah, "No matter what, I'm here for you. Even if you continue to lie to me, eventually pushing me closer and closer to your eery, bald-headed, sinister, former friend because you think being honest with me will result in my death...I'm here for you."

Couldn't resist.

it's ok.. should be a basic human right to be bitter.. :)

[KalKai]

There will be, I dunno if Clana fans forgot (referring to the DtS & *Sweet clana fans), most of em were like "i'm gonna stop watching this show", but it looks like they calmed down now, some of em at least lol. They knew this would happen from the beginning, "Welling: The Lana-Clark relationship--why isn't she a part of Superman's life? We're gonna find out. The Lana-Lex relationship. I mean, there are some firecrackers there."

[Mister J]

it's ok.. should be a basic human right to be bitter.. :)

Plus, I'm preety good at it. :)

I almost went back and edited that. Thought it might start another mini-slame war. And we do not need that. Thanx for being open to the sarcasm.

[Mister J]

There will be, I dunno if Clana fans forgot (referring to the DtS & *Sweet clana fans), most of em were like "i'm gonna stop watching this show", but it looks like they calmed down now, some of em at least lol. They knew this would happen from the beginning, "Welling: The Lana-Clark relationship--why isn't she a part of Superman's life? We're gonna find out. The Lana-Lex relationship. I mean, there are some firecrackers there."

One of the truly interesting things about SV is that we all know the ultimate destiny of the characters that they take liberties with. We know what'll happen to Clark, Lex, Lana, Lois, etc. The fact they spent so much time building up the Lex/Clark, Clark/Lana, Lex/Lana relationships as they have pulls on you because you know how it ends. After 4 and a half seasons, we'll finally get some headway in truly pushing these characters where we know they'll go.

[BaK]

There will be, I dunno if Clana fans forgot (referring to the DtS & *Sweet clana fans), most of em were like "i'm gonna stop watching this show", but it looks like they calmed down now, some of em at least lol. They knew this would happen from the beginning, "Welling: The Lana-Clark relationship--why isn't she a part of Superman's life? We're gonna find out. The Lana-Lex relationship. I mean, there are some firecrackers there."

funny, I was just there - at sweet.. it's doomsday there..
they might need a suicide watch or something..

it's hilarious and amazing - the level of affect this show has..

[Super_Ludacris]

To me the most important part is seeing Lana used better as a character so no matter who she's with provided it helps the storyline and her character that's fine. And I have always been intruiged by the Lex-Lana possibilty since Season 2.
I know some people will hate that, those people will hate whatever Lana does. Those people are tools but I digress

[MJZ]

Yeah, "No matter what, I'm here for you. Even if you continue to lie to me, eventually pushing me closer and closer to your eery, bald-headed, sinister, former friend because you think being honest with me will result in my death...I'm here for you."

Couldn't resist.

That said, I hope there is no Lexana or whatever people call it. It makes no sense. Of course, that hasn't really stopped Gough and Millar from doing a few things already.

I don't think they'll be "together," but there will undoubtedly be increased tension between the two. If anything, it could be an attempt on Lana's part just to get Clark to come clean.

We shall see...

[Max]

After rewatching the episode, I have to amend my earlier statement from the episode was "good," to the episode was "great." It's true that you have to go back and watch it without all the expectations of how you thought the episode would play out. I was pretty sure that Jonathan was going to be the one who died, and of course, I had all these scenes and scenarios in my head as to how truly devastated Clark would be when his father died. I was expecting this heartwrenching, tears streaming, screaming fit, display of emotions. Instead I got absolute, ear-splitting - Silence. Who knew that silence would work better for me?

For those who feel that Clark's reaction at his father's funeral was all wrong, I would have agreed with you, if I hadn't just seen him play out the horrific death of Lana. Then Clark begged Jorel, tears streaming down his face, to please allow him to correct the wrong, ignoring his father's pleas for restraint, and driven only by his grief.

When he grabs the crystal and time "resets" itself, and he is back in the loft about to make the momentous decision that starts the chain-of-events that would have lead to Lana's death. If you watch Clark's reactions from that moment forward, he's more calm, and at peace because he thinks that he's fixed everything.

The biggest surprise for Clark is that his father does not die a violent death via car crash, explosion, gun shot wound or other event that Clark usually can superspeed towards and save the day. If you watch that scene, Jonathan simply comes out of the barn as Clark and Martha pull up, and as Jonathan has his heart attack and stumbles, Clark helps walk his father over to the bales of hay and helps him sit down. He has no way of knowing that his father is about to breath his last, and when he does, Clark can't do anything. As his father dies, Clark knows instantaneously that this death is "life's balance" that Jorel was talking about, and even though I know that Jonathan would have died at some point, Clark's guilt is overwhelming.

The lack of visible emotion from Clark at the funeral, I thought, was brilliant. (Although, I'm sure he cried his eyes out from the time his father died to the day of the funeral.) Did you see the way everyone was looking at Clark at the funeral? They were wondering the same thing. "Why is Clark so calm?" Remember Lana's expression, Chloe's, Lois'? You could see them all reacting the same way. Clark is holding in all his rage (at himself) and his grief (for the loss of his father), and it's only a matter of time before all that pent up emotion explodes . .

. . . which will happen next week. I think this season is superb!

[Mister J]

I don't think they'll be "together," but there will undoubtedly be increased tension between the two. If anything, it could be an attempt on Lana's part just to get Clark to come clean.

We shall see...

I hope it really doesn't go past what it is now. He's a friend whom she doesn't completely trust. Let it weigh on Clark a little more, but have him steadfast (i.e., no more whining) in his decision to not 'endanger' her:rolleyes:. If there's even a hint of romance/passion between them...*shivers*. That kiss Lex planted on her was just creepy. Now him flinging those glasses into the fireplace, that's the Luthor I want.

[GothicPowerMix1]

If anything, it could be an attempt on Lana's part just to get Clark to come clean.

Shes been doing that since the Tornadoes

[The Incredible Hulk]

Thats a very good catch there Avid, although when did she die???

Originally Emily Dinsmore died when her and Lana were kids when she fell off the bridge and drowned. When she came back to life, it was because her father (the janitor from Scrubs :) ) and Lionel "krypto-cloned" her...

[avidreader]

Here's the teaser with the extra clips in it.

http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1QM6718EYZSMD1N4A2JIC6PATX

[KalKai]

I don't understand what extra clips? we saw all that in the episode, except the "my parents didn't adopt me, they found me in a field during the first meteor shower" part yeah, and they should have kept the loft/cave music.

[Mister J]

There was more dialogue between Lana and Clark.
"My parents didn't adopt me..."
"What makes this day different..."

It made a difference to me. Helped ease along the gravity of the moment.