Reckoning Discussion Thread (100th episode, Spoilers)

[AgentPat]

...They're not going to just keel over and die.Unfortunately, some people just do. The guy that wrote the definitive book on running - called "Running," IIRC - dropped dead out of the blue. While running, of course LOL. Brain embolism, or something like that. Same thing happened to a guy I grew up with. Same age as me. Keeled over on the basketball court. No warning. No previous medical condition. Didn't do drugs. He. Just. Died. Sux, but it happens. :(

[Kane]

Couldnt they get run over by a car or contract a disease. They're not going to just keel over and die.

I dont know...when Jor-el killed Lindsay...she just vanished into thin air.

This whole thing with life-forces and Jor-el (whos already supposed to be dead) playing God is just a tad excessive...

[avidreader]

Unfortunately, some people just do. The guy that wrote the definitive book on running - called "Running," IIRC - dropped dead out of the blue. While running, of course LOL. Brain embolism, or something like that. Same thing happened to a guy I grew up with. Same age as me. Keeled over on the basketball court. No warning. No previous medical condition. Didn't do drugs. He. Just. Died. Sux, but it happens. :(

Unfortunate and as unexpected as that was there was still a reason for it. My meaning was that their life force was not going to all of a sudden vanish and hey presto they're dead. Get what I mean?:rolleyes:

[JAX]

Couldnt they get run over by a car or contract a disease. They're not going to just keel over and die.

True. Also, Smallville and tv shows in general do not to offer explanations. There are a million things on the show that would make the public go "hmmm" that were never explained and forgot about.

[Kane]

I agree...I hope its not John Schneider either, but it likley is. Whatever the case may be....the show will move on for the better. Again, we are going see storylines with Brainiac, Deciples of Zod, and maybe Zod himself not to mention 100% evil Lex. That should keep us entertained for a while.

Another thing, has anyone noticed that 90% of the people in the forums here and elsewhere support keeping JS on the show? Do you think WB has paid attention that?

Hopefully but then again...ratings are more important.

So far the Deciples of Zod have been disapointing but hopefully Zod himself will be interesting. I just hope they don't use him in excess. Like I said earlier, the world and media encountering Kryptonians almost a decade before Superman's first appearance takes away from the magic and mystery of peoples initial perceptions of the marvel of Superman.

[triplet]

I dont know...when Jor-el killed Lindsay...she just vanished into thin air.

Did she even die? I know it was implied, but that is hardly what avid was talking aobut...

[Kane]

True. Also, Smallville and tv shows in general do not to offer explanations. There are a million things on the show that would make the public go "hmmm" that were never explained and forgot about.

Agreed that Smallville doesnt explain everything.

Considering all the people that know Clark's identity (alot of them evil), all the mutants running around, all the strange events resulting from usage of Kryptonite, the many deaths from Smallville High school...Smallville should be evacuated or quarantined or something...

Reminds me of the wacky precrisis Superboy days.

[Kane]

Did she even die? I know it was implied, but that is hardly what avid was talking aobut...

She was explained as dying, thats how John and Clark reacted to it and how Jorel presented it.

When Jorel takes the lifeforce from someone...I dont think that means hes going to cause a car to run them over...at least I hope not...thats seriously messed up.

When did Jor-El become the Spectre?

[AgentPat]

Unfortunate and as unexpected as that was there was still a reason for it. My meaning was that their life force was not going to all of a sudden vanish and hey presto they're dead. Get what I mean?:rolleyes:I guess I did miss your point then.

All I'm saying is, they don't have to explain it, though it would be better for dramatic purposes and a well-rounded story. If there *is* to be a "life-force" exchange, and they want the audience to know that's exactly what's going on, they will show it. They showed a similar exchange in Transference, though that was a swap verses a one-way kinda thing. Other characters don't have to "see" it - they didn't in Transference. The death could be explained to the other characters as something "unexplained," which *does* happen. Clark would know. The audience would know. The rest of the characters would be "shocked," but they'd move on. They always do.

Personally, I have no idea how they would make such an event "work," but I'll be patient and let it play out. Clark shouldn't carry that kind of guilt. Spider-Man and Batman, maybe. But not Superman. We'll see. That said, I'm glad they wrote Jonathan's death as being heart failure though. Seems natural enough to me, given his weakened condition and stress levels. They've got to get Clark past his animosity towards Jor-El.

[GinaRenee]

The plot thickens . . .

I'm hearing that John did NOT intend for that original letter to go on the site when it did, and was not thrilled about its turning up there.

My guess -- and it's ONLY my guess, I have no confirmation, so don't take it as gospel! -- is that his office was working on a draft to go up later, and that someone in the office jumped the gun with it.

[mellyM]

She was explained as dying, thats how John and Clark reacted to it and how Jorel presented it.

When Jorel takes the lifeforce from someone...I dont think that means hes going to cause a car to run them over...at least I hope not...thats seriously messed up.

When did Jor-El become the Spectre?
Didn't she die in the meteor shower and he just used her body? I cant recall exactly. I still say Jor-El never intended to kill anyone, but simply knew Jonathan's (I don't care about that ridiculous retraction, I still say its him--and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it) heart would give out soon, and could use his lifeforce to bring Clark back

[AgentPat]

The plot thickens . . .

I'm hearing that John did NOT intend for that original letter to go on the site when it did, and was not thrilled about its turning up there.

My guess -- and it's ONLY my guess, I have no confirmation, so don't take it as gospel! -- is that his office was working on a draft to go up later, and that someone in the office jumped the gun with it.Want my stab in the dark? I know less than you Gina, but I'm thinking JS is just trying to keep his butt out of the fire. It's easier to blame the mishap on an unnamed minion than it is to admit the faux pas, especially when it's a major one.

[Kane]

Didn't she die in the meteor shower and he just used her body? I cant recall exactly. I still say Jor-El never intended to kill anyone, but simply knew Jonathan's (I don't care about that ridiculous retraction, I still say its him--and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it) heart would give out soon, and could use his lifeforce to bring Clark back

Yet John's serious heart problems only started after his first encounter with Jorel...meaning Jorel and Clark are still responsible for it.

Also, Jorel has shown intent to hurt or even kill before....in the same episode he tried to suffocate Jonathan and ended up putting him in a coma for three months. Smallville's Jor-El is a bastard.

[NHawk19]

Regardles of whether John intended it or not it's across the net now. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Still when you think about it that death isnt all that shocking. We've been speculating it's going to be him since it was announced. Him, Chloe, Lionel and Lana appear to be our favorite targets.

If there is a death #2 the balance could be Lionel or Chloe but I dont think that the writers would give Clark a one two punch that is Chloe. Rather they'd use one of the scenerios we have for Lionel.

[JAX]

Regardles of whether John intended it or not it's across the net now. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Still when you think about it that death isnt all that shocking. We've been speculating it's going to be him since it was announced. Him, Chloe, Lionel and Lana appear to be our favorite targets.

If there is a death #2 the balance could be Lionel or Chloe but I dont think that the writers would give Clark a one two punch that is Chloe. Rather they'd use one of the scenerios we have for Lionel.

Like Jonathan killing Lionel in the heat of battle?? Thus, his heart giving out..

[Kane]

It looks like John is dead in the fortress though...maybe thats where Jor-el kills him.


Theres also the possibilty that John Kent dies naturally of a heart attack....but is brought back to life when Clark takes him to the Fortress...and someone else dies in his place.

[GinaRenee]

Want my stab in the dark? I know less than you Gina, but I'm thinking JS is just trying to keep his butt out of the fire. It's easier to blame the mishap on an unnamed minion than it is to admit the faux pas, especially when it's a major one.

It wasn't John who said this. It was the assistant who's in charge of his e-mail list. I've been in contact with him several times before, and he generally knows what he's talking about.

[avidreader]

I dont buy into the premis that Jor-el will be doing the actual killing.

To me its more that because Clark's life had to be restored, the balance of nature will inturn take another. Whoever that maybe.

If Clark had not been restored to life then that "other" would continue on with the normal course of his/her path.

[JAX]

It wasn't John who said this. It was the assistant who's in charge of his e-mail list. I've been in contact with him several times before, and he generally knows what he's talking about.

The email was pretty detailed though...how would his assistant get the info without knowledge from JS? Obviously, I'm not saying I dont't believe you...but there has to be some sort of truth in there. What strikes me as surprising is JS was bold enough to say no script had a demise of his character. Dont you think thats very straight forward?

[Kane]

I dont buy into the premis that Jor-el will be doing the actual killing.

To me its more that because Clark's life had to be restored, the balance of nature will inturn take another. Whoever that maybe.

If Clark had not been restored to life then that "other" would continue on with the normal course of his/her path.

Yet Clark has saved lives and changed people's destinies before, it really shouldnt be necessary to take another life.

I'd understand if Jor-el actually took the life out of someone immediately during "Hidden" to bring Clark back... but at this stage, it just seems pointless.

Jor-El isnt God and I dislike how Millar tends to portay him as such.

[triplet]

The plot thickens . . .

I'm hearing that John did NOT intend for that original letter to go on the site when it did, and was not thrilled about its turning up there.

My guess -- and it's ONLY my guess, I have no confirmation, so don't take it as gospel! -- is that his office was working on a draft to go up later, and that someone in the office jumped the gun with it.

That's a big oops.

[Serene]

I dont buy into the premis that Jor-el will be doing the actual killing.

To me its more that because Clark's life had to be restored, the balance of nature will inturn take another. Whoever that maybe.

If Clark had not been restored to life then that "other" would continue on with the normal course of his/her path.

That's pretty much what I meant in my earlier post about Jor-El being more of just the messenger in restoring the balance, as opposed to being the executioner. Although, it was Jor-El's decision to bring Clark back even thought it would cost someone else's life. Oh! And doesn't this make Jor-El a bit of a hypocrite? It's okay for him to choose to save Clark's life.. but it wasn't okay for Clark to choose to save Lana's? Hm... I know, it's all about the "greater good.." Go tell it to Spock.. :)

[AgentPat]

Smallville's Jor-El is a bastard.:mad:

You musta missed Relic. Besides, the MB is Lionel, not Jor-El LOL. :p

I think Jor-El is just misunderstood, which is partially his own fault for not being completely forthcoming. He hasn't really elaborated on WHY it's important for Clark to do the things he's been asked to do until Clark's inaction ends up revealing the consequences - usually when it's too late. For example, if he just freakin' came out and TOLD Clark what the crystals would do, Clark *might* have been a little more receptive to the quest. Clark has gotten a lot of mumbo jumbo from Jor-El, and has seen first hand the extent Jor-El is willing to go to get Clark to capitulate. So far, it's been nothing but threats; Jor-El hasn't actually killed anybody. If anything, he wants to HELP people, but he needs Clark to cooperate with him, and it's been one helluva "battle" ever since Clark misinterpreted the Kryptonian writing in his spaceship. Furthermore, every time Clark has had the misfortune of meeting another Kryptonian, it's ended very, very badly. LOL So when it comes to listening to his long dead Kryptonian father, he's usually facing the door ready to bolt. Can ya blame the poor kid? I don't.

[avidreader]

That's a big oops.

I was just thinking about this and JS would have been better off not making that last comment about it getting on his site without his blessing, 'cuase now it confirms that it was true.

And doesn't this make Jor-El a bit of a hypocrite? It's okay for him to choose to save Clark's life.. but it wasn't okay for Clark to choose to save Lana's? Hm... I know, it's all about the "greater good.." Go tell it to Spock..

Interesting observation.

Doncha love Spock, he's left the world with so many morality tales.

He hasn't really elaborated on WHY it's important for Clark to do the things he's been asked to do until Clark's inaction ends up revealing the consequences - usually when it's too late. For example, if he just freakin' came out and TOLD Clark what the crystals would do, Clark *might* have been a little more receptive to the quest.

Jor-el is very cryptic but I somehow think that he doesnt want to spill all the beans to Clark. It's some kind of Kryptonian education, LOL, that you are given certain clues but you have to decide what those clues mean and what the consequences of them are.

[NHawk19]

I dont buy into the premis that Jor-el will be doing the actual killing.

To me its more that because Clark's life had to be restored, the balance of nature will inturn take another. Whoever that maybe.

If Clark had not been restored to life then that "other" would continue on with the normal course of his/her path.

So are you thinking Johnathan restores the balance or someone else?

[triplet]

I was just thinking about this and JS would have been better off not making that last comment about it getting on his site without his blessing, 'cuase now it confirms that it was true.

Good point...



Interesting observation.

Doncha love Spock, he's left the world with so many morality tales.

Too funny.....


Jor-el is very cryptic but I somehow think that he doesnt want to spill all the beans to Clark. It's some kind of Kryptonian education, LOL, that you are given certain clues but you have to decide what those clues mean and what the consequences of them are.

Yeah, that's what I think too. Maybe this "a life will be exchanged for yours" thing isn't as literal as people are assuming.

I guess we'll see if they explain it when the time comes...

[avidreader]

So are you thinking Johnathan restores the balance or someone else?

Given what we know, i.e. spoiler pics, I would say yes Jonathan restores the balance, however I think it traces way back to his deal with Jor-el in Exile.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Lionel go, but I dont think that any of the other major characters will go. Too much all at once.

If any other character bites the dust, I think it will be Sheriff Adams.

Yeah, that's what I think too. Maybe this "a life will be exchanged for yours" thing isn't as literal as people are assuming.

I guess we'll see if they explain it when the time comes...

They'll explain it in their own Smallvillian way.

However, I was thinking more of the big picture with the Jor-el/Clark relationship. If he tells Clark everything point by point, then Clark isnt gaining insight into the way of things. Jor-el is dropping the crumbs but he wants Clark to discover the meanings for himself.

Its more or less along the lines of the way we behave with our own children. How many kids get homework to do, only to have their parents do it for them? They arent learning anything by this method they are just getting the scores to make them look good.

[Kane]

:mad:

You musta missed Relic. Besides, the MB is Lionel, not Jor-El LOL. :p

I think Jor-El is just misunderstood, which is partially his own fault for not being completely forthcoming. He hasn't really elaborated on WHY it's important for Clark to do the things he's been asked to do until Clark's inaction ends up revealing the consequences - usually when it's too late. For example, if he just freakin' came out and TOLD Clark what the crystals would do, Clark *might* have been a little more receptive to the quest. Clark has gotten a lot of mumbo jumbo from Jor-El, and has seen first hand the extent Jor-El is willing to go to get Clark to capitulate. So far, it's been nothing but threats; Jor-El hasn't actually killed anybody. If anything, he wants to HELP people, but he needs Clark to cooperate with him, and it's been one helluva "battle" ever since Clark misinterpreted the Kryptonian writing in his spaceship. Furthermore, every time Clark has had the misfortune of meeting another Kryptonian, it's ended very, very badly. LOL So when it comes to listening to his long dead Kryptonian father, he's usually facing the door ready to bolt. Can ya blame the poor kid? I don't.

Whats an MB?

And I try to forget Relic, that episode was one of the ones I disliked the most...but it didnt reflect the 'Jor-El' we've witnessed in other episodes anyways.

He may be misunderstood.. but you are correct in it being his fault. His actions tend to be strange and controversial and his threats that he makes are even more perplexing. The lack of an actual explantion over who he truely is (considering Jorel is long dead) kinda hurts his character too.

Its obvious Clark and the Kents still hate him and I dont see how Clark could ever follow Jor-el if Jor-el takes Jonathans life away.

[mellyM]

That's pretty much what I meant in my earlier post about Jor-El being more of just the messenger in restoring the balance, as opposed to being the executioner. Although, it was Jor-El's decision to bring Clark back even thought it would cost someone else's life. Oh! And doesn't this make Jor-El a bit of a hypocrite? It's okay for him to choose to save Clark's life.. but it wasn't okay for Clark to choose to save Lana's? Hm... I know, it's all about the "greater good.." Go tell it to Spock.. :)
But if Clark hadn't come back with full powers, Smallville would have been completely destroyed, so many lives would have been lost, and Lana wasn;t dying

[Kane]

Whats even funnier is that missile wouldnt have been launched if Clark and his Kryptonite never came to Earth....or Jorel didnt send him there.

[Earthsea]

Whats even funnier is that missile wouldnt have been launched if Clark and his Kryptonite never came to Earth....or Jorel didnt send him there.

Whats even more funnier is Lana parents would still be alive

[Kane]

Whats even funnier is the hundreds of evil Krypto freaks wouldnt exist...alot wouldnt be dead and be normal humans with positive lives.....and the people they hurt would be normal too.

Even stranger, Lionel would have probably remained in the fertilizer plant business and Lex (who was always destined to become a threat to the world) would have died in that car crash.....saving the world alot of grief.

[Serene]

But if Clark hadn't come back with full powers, Smallville would have been completely destroyed, so many lives would have been lost, and Lana wasn;t dying
I think Jor-El made it clear that Clark's life was being restored, not to save the people of SV, but because his destiny was too important. Of course, it does follow that saving the people of SV that day was a part of his destiny.

At the time that Clark chose to stay with Lana, he had know way of knowing if she was dying or not.. just that she needed help. I think he was afraid she *might* die if he didn't get her to help right away.

However, I was thinking more of the big picture with the Jor-el/Clark relationship. If he tells Clark everything point by point, then Clark isnt gaining insight into the way of things. Jor-el is dropping the crumbs but he wants Clark to discover the meanings for himself.

Its more or less along the lines of the way we behave with our own children. How many kids get homework to do, only to have their parents do it for them? They arent learning anything by this method they are just getting the scores to make them look good.
Oh.. that's very goood. ;)

[Kane]

However, I was thinking more of the big picture with the Jor-el/Clark relationship. If he tells Clark everything point by point, then Clark isnt gaining insight into the way of things. Jor-el is dropping the crumbs but he wants Clark to discover the meanings for himself.

Except Clark isnt supposed to be some dumb kid... he has intelligence and Jorel never even gave him a chance to gain insight without all the tricks.

I mean it worked fine for the Donner movie Clark. Jorel acted like a loving and caring father and Clark chose to follow him and learn from him.

Smallville Clark's hatred towards Jor-El is justified given Jor-El's actions.

[BaK]

Whats even funnier is that missile wouldnt have been launched if Clark and his Kryptonite never came to Earth....or Jorel didnt send him there.
The missile could have been launched for million reasons other then that one,
but then we would not have Clark/Superman to save the day and it would be NO FUN AT ALL!

[Kane]

The missile could have been launched for million reasons other then that one,
but then we would not have Clark/Superman to save the day and it would be NO FUN AT ALL!

Um no. The reason was obvious. It was the kid trying to eliminate Kryptofreaks.

It was an old retired missle silo anyways....only someone as evil as Lex would launch a missile strike like that....then again without Clark Lex would be long dead.

[BaK]

Um no. The reason was obvious. It was the kid trying to eliminate Kryptofreaks.
Um no.
The reason I am talking about is obviously from the world without Superman, you're just too slow in getting stuff.

[Kane]

Heres something else I considered. If 'Jor-el' has existed in the caves on Earth all this time....

Couldnt he just have possessed or controlled some people, like he did with Linsday. Use them to recover the stones. Form the FOS and raise the baby Clark himself within the Fortress. Given how intelligent and logical Jor-El is supposed to be, I cant believe he missed that one.

[Kane]

Um no.
The reason I am talking about is obviously from the world without Superman, you're just too slow in getting stuff.

We exist in a world without Superman. No missle warfare yet. Smallville is based off our modern reality....so it seems equally unlikely...unless Lex rose to power....which he wouldnt have if he was dead.

[BaK]

We exist in a world without Superman.
You seem to excell in stating/grasping the obvious..
Do not try to understand anything more challenging, like a joke..

[Earthsea]

Heres something else I considered. If 'Jor-el' has existed in the caves on Earth all this time....

Couldnt he just have possessed or controlled some people, like he did with Linsday. Use them to recover the stones. Form the FOS and raise the baby Clark himself within the Fortress. Given how intelligent and logical Jor-El is supposed to be, I cant believe he missed that one.

Or he could have simply just kept Clark in that one place where he turned Clark Evil

[AgentPat]

They're action figures, NOT dolls. :mad:











Um, that's a joke folks. Couldn't resist. :O

Crisis, hon, you're never gonna live that one down. :p

PS: I agree with ya on this point: "Smallville Clark's hatred towards Jor-El is justified given Jor-El's actions." Yup! I would be too, I think.

[Kane]

I dont have a sense of humor ever since I returned to this board.

I take things seriously.

Keep that in mind.

[Mike_D]

"a life that will be exhanged for yours". Perhaps he meant Clark Kent will be no more? That its time for Kal-El aka Superman?

[Kane]

'Clark Kent' continues forever. His personality just changes from his natural personality to a geeky disguise.

[avidreader]

Except Clark isnt supposed to be some dumb kid... he has intelligence and Jorel never even gave him a chance to gain insight without all the tricks.

But its all leading towards a bigger picture. He's teaching him all of this the hard way.

I mean it worked fine for the Donner movie Clark. Jorel acted like a loving and caring father and Clark chose to follow him and learn from him.

Well they never had the time to explore the relationship in the movies so they gave it the direct route. I'm sure Smallville in the end will have Clark and Jor-el on the same terms.

Smallville Clark's hatred towards Jor-El is justified given Jor-El's actions.

Of course it is. He's completely within reason to not trust him. It doesnt mean that Jor-el's intentions are bad though.

Oh.. that's very goood. ;)

You like that? :)

[Brainiac 8]

They're action figures, NOT dolls. :mad:











Um, that's a joke folks. Couldn't resist. :O

Crisis, hon, you're never gonna live that one down. :p

PS: I agree with ya on this point: "Smallville Clark's hatred towards Jor-El is justified given Jor-El's actions." Yup! I would be too, I think.


MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! That was funny.:D :joker: (Just as funny as the original conversation was.)
Funniest.Joke.Ever. *Comic collector guy*

I can understand Clark's hatred of Jor-el also.
What Miles and Gough have done for themselves is written Jor-el into a very tight corner. They have waited so long to expand on him and explain his motivations and even what he is, that it will be VERY hard for them to actually lead him toward the position he will eventually take. We really don't know why Jor-el does what he does. Somehow they have the ardurous task of shaping him into a loving father that teaches and guides Clark. He has not been that person so far. He has been more of a ... dare I say villain...than anything so far.
I have faith they can pull the transition and explanation off, but it will take some fancy writing.:o :)

[triplet]

I dont have a sense of humor ever since I returned to this board.

I take things seriously.

Keep that in mind.

You should try to lighten up some... you might have more fun.

Just some friendly advice, life's too short to not and try and enjoy yourself as much as you can.

[Kane]

Im not capable of that anymore.

[Zorex]

hey Crisis, you're using my art as your avvy...I'm flattered :up:

[darkzombiemutt]

Maybe no one will die.
*gives you a suplex*

[Kane]

hey Crisis, you're using my art as your avvy...I'm flattered

It was good.

[triplet]

Im not capable of that anymore.

Sorry to hear that, bud, but it explains a lot... ;) :D

[Kane]

thanks.

[The Caped Knight]

Hey JK might not be the one to bit the dust after all in 100th Episode. Take a look at this

Hi there!

I appreciate everyone's concern about the "Smallville" rumors but need to strongly reprimand whoever posted todays newsletter regarding the future of my character. In fact, I have read several scripts with Jonathan Kent in them and have no evidence of his demise.

Also... Please don't email anyone at The WB about this as they are busy preparing a fantastic second part of the season for us all.

Again... Rumors are just that and shouldn't be taken too seriously. And please don't write to Mr. Janollari. He is a big fan of not only the show but of mine as well. A great guy!

Happy New Year!

John

That was from John Schneider's Website.
http://www.johnschneider.tv/index.php

If JK lives , I'll be very happy .:up: :up:

[avidreader]

You should check back a couple of pages Kal-el because that statement was made after retracting another statement he made about moving on from Smallville.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hey JK might not be the one to bit the dust after all in 100th Episode. Take a look at this



That was from John Schneider's Website.
http://www.johnschneider.tv/index.php

If JK lives , I'll be very happy .:up: :up:


this just in: the world is round, and Kristen Shephard shot JR :eek:

[triplet]

this just in: the world is round, and Kristen Shephard shot JR :eek:

LOL!

You totatlly crack me up, Hulk...

:up:

[The Caped Knight]

If What John Schneider says is true, Then Chloe's the one to bite the dust . I hope What John said is true. That would be awesome news, JK lives and is able to see Clark become SUPERMAN . (I'd miss Chloe but if she died and Jonathan live I could get pass her death.)

[triplet]

^^--- I think his first statement was the true one.

[AgentPat]

Hey, anybody read the MBTV boards here? "New" rumor time. Okay, it's a few weeks old. I'm not too punctual - sue me! :p

According to one of the squirrels there, Jonathan's death is confirmed (DUH!!), but the *other* death is Lionel. :eek: Okay, I'll buy that. But wait... there's something else... and I'm re-heeeely squinting hard trying to see how - or WHY - this event would happen considering Clark's marriage proposal to Lana in the same episode, but according to the squirrel, Clark kisses Chloe at the end of the ep.

Huh? Say what?!! The person didn't elaborate on what "kind" of kiss it was though.

Color me intrigued. And VERY skeptical. :o

[KalKai]

The WB's Official Description: "Reckoning" (100th Episode!)
SMALLVILLE’S 100TH EPISODE TRANSPORTS VIEWERS BACK INTO THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE AS CLARK BEGS JOR-EL TO SAVE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE HE LOVES - In the 100th episode of the series, Clark (Tom Welling) reveals his secret to Lana (Kristin Kreuk), Jonathan (John Schneider) and Lex (Michael Rosenbaum) learn the results of the senatorial election and there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help. Allison Mack, Erica Durance, John Glover and Annette O’Toole also star. Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders wrote the episode directed by Greg Beeman (#2T6412).

[Serene]

Hey, anybody read the MBTV boards here?
What are the "MBTV" boards?

but according to the squirrel, Clark kisses Chloe at the end of the ep.

That doesn't make any sense considering where he is in his relationship with Lana right now, and like you said, the proposal. I hate to even say it.. but could it be a *final* type of kiss?

[AgentPat]

SMALLVILLE’S 100TH EPISODE TRANSPORTS VIEWERS BACK INTO THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE AS CLARK BEGS JOR-EL TO SAVE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE HE LOVES - In the 100th episode of the series, Clark reveals his secret to Lana [ :eek: :up: ], Jonathan and Lex learn the results of the senatorial election and there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help.So Jonathan gets hit by a car? I thought it was "written as heart failure?" This just gets weirder and weirder.

Okay, fess up, who was it that brought up the car accident possibility earlier today?

What are the "MBTV" boards?Sorry, my bad. MBTV is the former name for TWOP. I still think of it as Mighty Big TV, probably 'cause I haven't been there in years.

That doesn't make any sense considering where he is in his relationship with Lana right now, and like you said, the proposal.Yeah really, that's what I said. It just doesn't make any sense. But I'll entertain the notion anyway. LOL

I hate to even say it.. but could it be a *final* type of kiss?Could be, but I doubt it. I honestly don't think after all the spoiler "evidence" we've heard so far that Chloe is gonna be one of the offees, but I guess we'll see. If she IS though, then a kiss from Clark on her "way out" (LOL) would be touching.

[KalKai]

So Jonathan gets hit by a car? I thought it was "written as heart failure?" This just gets weirder and weirder.

We need more details, it could be the 2nd death, we don't know if 2 vehicles are involved or just 1, all the characters drive, Jonathan, Chloe, Lois, Lana.. not sure about Martha.

[Serene]

So Jonathan gets hit by a car? I thought it was "written as heart failure?" This just gets weirder and weirder.

Maybe the car accident isn't Jonathan... it seems more likely to be the cause of the second death.

Could be, but I doubt it. I honestly don't think after all the spoiler "evidence" we've heard so far that Chloe is gonna be one of the offees, but I guess we'll see. If she IS though, then a kiss from Clark on her "way out" (LOL) would be touching.

At this point.. nothing would surprise me.

[Kane]

I thought Lionel was the 2nd death? But whoever got killed by the car...Clark wants to save (and that was likely the person close to Clark that he loved)....so its obviously not Lionel.

[Zorex]

The WB's Official Description: "Reckoning" (100th Episode!)
SMALLVILLE’S 100TH EPISODE TRANSPORTS VIEWERS BACK INTO THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE AS CLARK BEGS JOR-EL TO SAVE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE HE LOVES - In the 100th episode of the series, Clark (Tom Welling) reveals his secret to Lana (Kristin Kreuk), Jonathan (John Schneider) and Lex (Michael Rosenbaum) learn the results of the senatorial election and there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help. Allison Mack, Erica Durance, John Glover and Annette O’Toole also star. Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders wrote the episode directed by Greg Beeman (#2T6412).
oh my God. It sounds incredible.

[I still cannot believe that it says Clark reveals his secret to Lana. They say it, the pictures say it, but...still.]

[JAX]

The WB's Official Description: "Reckoning" (100th Episode!)
SMALLVILLE’S 100TH EPISODE TRANSPORTS VIEWERS BACK INTO THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE AS CLARK BEGS JOR-EL TO SAVE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE HE LOVES - In the 100th episode of the series, Clark (Tom Welling) reveals his secret to Lana (Kristin Kreuk), Jonathan (John Schneider) and Lex (Michael Rosenbaum) learn the results of the senatorial election and there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help. Allison Mack, Erica Durance, John Glover and Annette O’Toole also star. Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders wrote the episode directed by Greg Beeman (#2T6412).

Ok. Ready for round 3! I dont know how much more I can handle. JAX will be the one to go in episode 100 :)

[JAX]

there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help. (#2T6412).

Well considering Clark is holding Good 'Ole Bo Kent in the FOS and appearing desperate.... I'm guessing JK gets in a car accident????

[Kane]

oh my God. It sounds incredible.

[I still cannot believe that it says Clark reveals his secret to Lana. They say it, the pictures say it, but...still.]

Well the shock value of it has kinda diminished over the past 4 years. I doubt Lana would be too surprised by his revealation.

[The Sage]

At last...old man Kent dies. I'm so happy...Progression people! Progression!!!

*Does push ups*

[Thunder Emperor]

At last...old man Kent dies. I'm so happy...Progression people! Progression!!!

*Does push ups*


No hell no. the one thing i hate about pre-crisis superman is the death of Johanthan kent. Pa kent needs to live like his post -crisis counterpart. oh well. I really don't see the need for. Yeah i KNow everyone says it helpe jump start the superman phase of his life but serious does he father have to die. chloe is top bill for that not pa kent. this sucks truely. i am really pissed they took this route.

[The Sage]

No hell no. the one thing i hate about pre-crisis superman is the death of Johanthan kent. Pa kent needs to live like his post -crisis counterpart. oh well. I really don't see the need for. Yeah i KNow everyone says it helpe jump start the superman phase of his life but serious does he father have to die. chloe is top bill for that not pa kent. this sucks truely. i am really pissed they took this route.

I'm really happy they took this route. In fact, I'm gonna write a letter to DC Comics that they do a 3 parter, with Pa Kent dying, Clark and Pa Kent recounting some of Clark's younger years, then ending it with a heartfelt goodbye to the old man.

[user123456789]

Well the shock value of it has kinda diminished over the past 4 years. I doubt Lana would be too surprised by his revealation.

i will still piss my pants when it happens.

i think its only fitting for clark to tell lana his secret in the 100th episode

[GarudA]

I think Clark will beg Jor-El for JK life, and he might grant it, I thinks anyways

[BaK]

The WB's Official Description: "Reckoning" (100th Episode!) In the 100th episode of the series, Clark (Tom Welling) reveals his secret to Lana (Kristin Kreuk),
:):up:
no more secrets.. no more lies..

''Arrival'' promise finally arrives.. ;)

I wonder which path they choose to go with - or explore the most:

1. How it affects their love..
2. How it affects Lana's love and feelings towards Clark.
3. Her handling/reaction to this revelation.
4. Does it cause Clark's reaction to her reaction/shock to be a proposal?..
5. All of the above and more..

I guess her reaction would be along the lines of:

- She tells him that only now she understands why he would keep such thing a secret,
how it's a terrible burden to be with someone who may or may not come back
from dead, how gratefull she is for his trying to spare her of all of that,
who knows what kind of strength all that lies ahead requires of both of them,
does she have the right to be in a situation to put her good above the whole world's good
if a given situation needs him to make decisions of that kind..

In another word, it's all too much too soon when you are still not sure if you are man or Superman..


:)

[mellyM]

So Jonathan gets hit by a car? I thought it was "written as heart failure?" This just gets weirder and weirder.

It doesn;t say he got hit by a car, just that there was an accident...he could have a heart attack while driving..I guess they can't be specific or it would give it away? This whole thing is driving me batty, I guess we won't know a thing for slightly less than 3 weeks

[Zorex]

Well the shock value of it has kinda diminished over the past 4 years. I doubt Lana would be too surprised by his revealation.
Well wow, don't sound too excited about it now.

As the wise Sage says, progression, people, progression.

[triplet]

It doesn;t say he got hit by a car, just that there was an accident...he could have a heart attack while driving..I guess they can't be specific or it would give it away? This whole thing is driving me batty, I guess we won't know a thing for slightly less than 3 weeks

This whole thing is driving me batty too...

[Zorex]

This whole thing is driving me batty too...
I've got it now. Jonathon has a heart attack...while driving...while Jor-El, at the same time, laughs his non-corporeal ass off about having caused the whole thing.

.................

[triplet]

I've got it now. Jonathon has a heart attack...while driving...while Jor-El, at the same time, laughs his non-corporeal ass off about having caused the whole thing.

.................

LOL!

Okay, that's it. You're a genius!

BTW: Non-corporeal fathers should learn to be nicer to the corporeal ones, IMO... ;) :D

Oh, and about both Lionel and Jonathan buying it? I think it's perfect.

MR and TW have both talked about how Clark and Lex envy each other to an extent, that there are some parallels in their lives... So, having both of their fathers kick it at the same time would have a nice symmetry to it.

Seems like something Al & Miles would do.

[Zorex]

LOL!

Okay, that's it. You're a genius!

BTW: Non-corporeal fathers should learn to be nicer to the corporeal ones, IMO... ;) :D
It's really simple, really. 2 + 2, yknow.... ;)

[Earthsea]

The WB's Official Description: "Reckoning" (100th Episode!)
SMALLVILLE’S 100TH EPISODE TRANSPORTS VIEWERS BACK INTO THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE AS CLARK BEGS JOR-EL TO SAVE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE HE LOVES - In the 100th episode of the series, Clark (Tom Welling) reveals his secret to Lana (Kristin Kreuk), Jonathan (John Schneider) and Lex (Michael Rosenbaum) learn the results of the senatorial election and there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help. Allison Mack, Erica Durance, John Glover and Annette O’Toole also star. Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders wrote the episode directed by Greg Beeman (#2T6412).

So Jonathan & Lex finds out who wins & looses & all of a sudden theres an "accitdent" on the highway ? pffffttttt stupid Lex

[avidreader]

Okay, fess up, who was it that brought up the car accident possibility earlier today?
Did I say something about a car accident yesterday?;) :D Yes I did Post 1247

All very interesting though and I guess its nothing we didnt know already except for the election results.

I wonder if Lex will run Jonathan off the road.

[Earthsea]

Excuse me, did I say something about a car accident yesterday?;) :D

All very interesting though and I guess its nothing we didnt know already except for the election results.

I wonder if Lex will run Jonathan off the road.

Lex runs Jonathan off the road after Jonathan wins the election, Clark Super Speeds to Jonathan with Lex long gone & then Clark makes some deal with Jor El begging him to revive Jonathan. Jonathan gets brought back alive & then we see Chloe die near the end of the Episode :p

[avidreader]

Lex runs Jonathan off the road after Jonathan wins the election, Clark Super Speeds to Jonathan with Lex long gone & then Clark makes some deal with Jor El begging him to revive Jonathan. Jonathan gets brought back alive & then we see Chloe die near the end of the Episode :p

Could be.:)

[Zorex]

Lex runs Jonathan off the road after Jonathan wins the election, Clark Super Speeds to Jonathan with Lex long gone & then Clark makes some deal with Jor El begging him to revive Jonathan. Jonathan gets brought back alive & then we see Chloe die near the end of the Episode :p
omg, for some reason, as I read this and was envisioning it, I saw it as tension tension tension for the whole episode, and then, yay, Jonathon's alive! Everyone's happy! then, inexplicably, after, I don't know, they all go out for ice cream or something, Chloe drops dead in the parking lot. roll end credits.

a bit macabre. funny too.

[The Incredible Hulk]

So Jonathan gets hit by a car? I thought it was "written as heart failure?" This just gets weirder and weirder.

"car accident" usually implies two cars or like a car and a tree or something. When someone gets hit by a car they usually dont say they've had a "car accident"... :) Take it from someone who's been hit by a car :up: :D

[The Master]

Lex runs Jonathan off the road after Jonathan wins the election, Clark Super Speeds to Jonathan with Lex long gone & then Clark makes some deal with Jor El begging him to revive Jonathan. Jonathan gets brought back alive & then we see Chloe die near the end of the Episode :p

As ridiculous as it sounds, it could very well be possible since it;s been mentioned that the "death" in the 100th episode might not be the only one this season.

[Earthsea]

As ridiculous as it sounds, it could very well be possible since it;s been mentioned that the "death" in the 100th episode might not be the only one this season.

Actually there are 2 deaths this Episode & Jonathans might not even be THE big death as Jor El can & probably will revive him especially if Lex is responsible for his injuries. Lex being responsible will just be for Clark & Lex friendship to end but Jonathan in the end could & more then likely will live & become Senator with Lex moving back to Metropolis

[AgentPat]

LOL@this thread. JeeZus! :D

So what's with all the speculation that Jonathan might still be saved in the end? I can understand folks still wondering about Chloe, Lionel, Jor-El... heck, even Lana, Martha or Lois, but Jonathan's toast folks. LOL See ya. History. Gone. Buh bye. Now I hope Chloe doesn't shuffle off to Buffalo too, but at least there haven't been any spoiler photos circulated of her stiff and horizontal, and Allison Mack hasn't been afflicted with foot-in-mouth disease, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

As to the potential of the other death being Lionel, I think that makes a stronger argument. Given the other plot elements from the episode, it works better for the bigger picture. What if Lionel and Jonathan argue over playing dirty pool and Jonathan decides not to conspire with Lionel anymore? Jonathan wants to win the electoral race fair and square. But Lex finds out what Lionel has been trying to do, and when Jonathan wins the race, Lex snaps. We all know the "road to darkness isn't a light switch," but *something* has to trigger the final turn. This could be it. So Lex sets up an accident to off one or both out of revenge. One or both die as a result of the accident - perhaps Lionel in the car, and Jonathan through stress-induced heart attack? Anything is possible here. Point is, both die *because* of Lex (not Jor-El). Clark doesn't know, gets the wrong idea (again), flips out about Jor-El's interference, Jor-El sets him straight (w/o elaborating on Lex's involvement), and the universe is re-set. Or at least SV is. LOL

Only question left is, at what point does Clark spill to Lana? We know it happens, but does Clark do so because Lana is about to figure it out anyway, or is it *after* Jonathan dies, and Clark realizes life is too short to keep secrets and he should just come clean?

Three weeks, huh? Man. It's gonna be a looooooong three weeks. *sigh*



PS: What is UP with the boards lately? It keeps timing out. Can you say, frustrating?!!! :mad:

[Zorex]

LOL@this thread. JeeZus! :D

So what's with all the speculation that Jonathan might still be saved in the end? I can understand folks still wondering about Chloe, Lionel, Jor-El... heck, even Lana, Martha or Lois, but Jonathan's toast folks. LOL See ya. History. Gone. Buh bye.

I think you're right, and, despite how much I would prefer that, I think I'm not making my mind up about ANY of it yet, not until the ep airs.


Now I hope Chloe doesn't shuffle off to Buffalo too, but at least there haven't been any spoiler photos circulated of her stiff and horizontal, and Allison Mack hasn't been afflicted with foot-in-mouth disease, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

haha, oh, what wonderful wording.

Only question left is, at what point does Clark spill to Lana? We know it happens, but does Clark do so because Lana is about to figure it out anyway, or is it *after* Jonathan dies, and Clark realizes life is too short to keep secrets and he should just come clean?

You raise really interesting points, possibilities, but this is the most interesting to me. I could definitely see them leaving it until the end, after the deaths, after Clark, as you said, realizes life is just too short to let people go before opening up about himself and how he feels about them, ending it before we really see Lana's answer or full reaction.

[BaK]

PS: What is UP with the boards lately? It keeps timing out. Can you say, frustrating?!!! :mad:
Maybe it's this board that will die in episode 100.

[JAX]

Could be.:)

Wishful thinking, but pretty cool idea. :up: I agree with agentpat and say he is unfortunalty toast: Let us sing:

Just the good ol' boy,
Never meanin' no harm,
Beats all you've ever saw, been in trouble with Jor-El since the day Clark was born.

Makin' Clarks way,
The only way he knows how,
That's just a little bit more than the Jor-El will allow. :(

[X-Chick]

You know, I've been thinking, isn't it kind of obvious for it to be Jonathan? I mean, we're all expecting him to die because of the comics and movies, and if it was really him, why would they be so secretive with it? Also, when Jonathan dies is when Clark leaves Smallville, and isn't it a little soon for that? Though, if it is in fact, Jonathan like we all assume, I think the second character death that's be hinted at would have to be Lionel. They've kept everything parallel between Clark and Lex so far and that would be the perfect finishing touch for Lex's cross to the dark side.

And on the Clark/Lana subject, there's an image I saw from a trailer that looks like he's proposing and the background looks sort of like the Fortress. :confused:

[Serene]

Lex runs Jonathan off the road after Jonathan wins the election, Clark Super Speeds to Jonathan with Lex long gone & then Clark makes some deal with Jor El begging him to revive Jonathan. Jonathan gets brought back alive & then we see Chloe die near the end of the Episode :p

I can't believe it. This stoopid thread was affecting my dreams last night! The scenario Earthsea has written above is a little similar to what kept running through my mind. Although, I don't believe Lex would run Jonathan off the road...but I can see Lionel doing that. Perhaps that's what kills Lionel, losing control of his vehicle after hitting Jonathan?

For some reason, I kept imagining someone, either Chloe or Lana, driving away at the end.. and getting in an accident and killed. This is regardless of what happens to Jonathan, as I don't think Jonathan's death by heart attack is going to count as the lifeforce exchange. Although.. I'd prefer that there's only one death.

I do like the symmetry of, if Jonathan dies, then Lionel does too.

There are a few clues that make me doubt that Jonathan's death is related to any type of vehicular accident. One, is JS's comment about the death being written as "heart failure." Granted, it may have been a red herring, but maybe not. And two, he looks too clean. MVA's mess people up... bloody cuts, clothes askew, etc.. I don't think his shirt is even untucked. And you know how the SV make-up people love to lay on the fake blood (i.e. Lana's face in Arrival - blech!).

[X-Chick]

I can't believe it. This stoopid thread was affecting my dreams last night! The scenario Earthsea has written above is a little similar to what kept running through my mind. Although, I don't believe Lex would run Jonathan off the road...but I can see Lionel doing that. Perhaps that's what kills Lionel, losing control of his vehicle after hitting Jonathan?


I highly doubt Lionel would do the dirty work himself.

[Serene]

You know, I've been thinking, isn't it kind of obvious for it to be Jonathan? I mean, we're all expecting him to die because of the comics and movies, and if it was really him, why would they be so secretive with it? Also, when Jonathan dies is when Clark leaves Smallville, and isn't it a little soon for that? Though, if it is in fact, Jonathan like we all assume, I think the second character death that's be hinted at would have to be Lionel. They've kept everything parallel between Clark and Lex so far and that would be the perfect finishing touch for Lex's cross to the dark side.

And on the Clark/Lana subject, there's an image I saw from a trailer that looks like he's proposing and the background looks sort of like the Fortress. :confused:
Hi X-Chick :)
Yeah.. the spoiler pics have been discussed here ad nauseam, as indicated by the near-record breaking amount of posts in this thread. You might want to scroll back a bit.. it's some fun reading. Fun, as in.. frustrating, that is. ;)

[Brainiac 8]

Longest.Thread.Ever.:eek:

I wonder how long it'll go?:confused: ;)

[AgentPat]

Longest.Thread.Ever.:eek: http://www.patcostello.com/smileys/no.gif

It's got over 6000 posts to go (!!!) to surpass the longest thread on the SV board...
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145908

...which I *suppose* is possible since that thread is closed now.

But this one (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145005) isn't, and it's not even half way there yet. ;)

[Earthsea]

Someone said this at BlueTights
After re-watching the "Special Features" section on the season 4 DVD, the writers themselves have said that the Kents will NOT die... So unless they are f$%king with us,

http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/showthread.php?t=8855&page=1

PatRicNasty said it

[Earthsea]

Someone said this at BlueTights
After re-watching the "Special Features" section on the season 4 DVD, the writers themselves have said that the Kents will NOT die... =

http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/showthread.php?t=8855&page=1

PatRicNasty said it

[avidreader]

Just the good ol' boy,
Never meanin' no harm,
Beats all you've ever saw, been in trouble with Jor-El since the day Clark was born.

Makin' Clarks way,
The only way he knows how,
That's just a little bit more than the Jor-El will allow. :(

LOL! I hope they play that at his funeral.


I dont think it will go down this way, but ......

what if one of the girls do die in the car accident, just say Lana, Clark takes her to the Fortress and begs Jor-el to revive her, he does, and that's when Clark does the secret reveal and the proposal.

In the meantime Jonathan dies of a heart attack.

As I said I dont think it will happen like that because the scene where Lana and Clark are talking in the barn about "losing you, and something I should have shown you" appears to take place in Lockdown, which then would probably lead on to Reckoning.

[triplet]

Lex runs Jonathan off the road after Jonathan wins the election, Clark Super Speeds to Jonathan with Lex long gone & then Clark makes some deal with Jor El begging him to revive Jonathan. Jonathan gets brought back alive & then we see Chloe die near the end of the Episode :p

I don't think so: Jonathan's toast.

:p

[GinaRenee]

I don't think so: Jonathan's toast.

:p

And people wonder why I've almost completely given up posting on this board.

[The Caped Knight]

The WB's Official Description: "Reckoning" (100th Episode!)

SMALLVILLE’S 100TH EPISODE TRANSPORTS VIEWERS BACK INTO THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE AS CLARK BEGS JOR-EL TO SAVE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE HE LOVES - In the 100th episode of the series, Clark (Tom Welling) reveals his secret to Lana (Kristin Kreuk), Jonathan (John Schneider) and Lex (Michael Rosenbaum) learn the results of the senatorial election and there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help. Allison Mack, Erica Durance, John Glover and Annette O’Toole also star. Brian Peterson & Kelly Souders wrote the episode directed by Greg Beeman (#2T6412).

Intresting, JK might not be the one to die after all, it's possible (Clark thought Jonathan was the one and brought Jonathan to FOS .) when the preson that really dies is Chloe . (Now that would be shocking) :eek: :supes:

[AgentPat]

And people wonder why I've almost completely given up posting on this board.Is it because many of us are already convinced he's one of the characters that will die, or is it our blunt way of stating that opinion ("he's toast") that bothers you? If it's the latter, I'll try to be a little more sensitive in the future; I don't have anything against Jonathan and wouldn't want *any* of the characters to be offed before their time. But if it's the former... I dunno Gina. It's not looking good. :(

[triplet]

And people wonder why I've almost completely given up posting on this board.

Don't take it personally, but the preponderance of evidence is pointing to him...

Sorry to make it harder on you.

I'll try to be more sensitive, like Pat. :(

[GinaRenee]

I know it's not looking good. And I'm not trying to quash anyone's freedom of speech. I have no right to do that. But with all due respect to everyone here, I'd rather stick to boards where people aren't making merry over it.

[AgentPat]

I know it's not looking good. And I'm not trying to quash anyone's freedom of speech. I have no right to do that. But with all due respect to everyone here, I'd rather stick to boards where people aren't making merry over it.No prob. I completely understand. I avoid boards where they bash Clark or SV in general, so I'll be good for the sake of the Jonathan fans out there. :up:

[triplet]

I know it's not looking good. And I'm not trying to quash anyone's freedom of speech. I have no right to do that. But with all due respect to everyone here, I'd rather stick to boards where people aren't making merry over it.

I don't think anyone is making "merry" over it, I'm sorry if my flip response was that hurtful, Gina.

I didn't mean it to be.

[X-Chick]

Hi X-Chick :)
Yeah.. the spoiler pics have been discussed here ad nauseam, as indicated by the near-record breaking amount of posts in this thread. You might want to scroll back a bit.. it's some fun reading. Fun, as in.. frustrating, that is. ;)

It's a little difficult to read through 55 pages, and I doubt its near record breaking since I've seen threads with well over 500 pages and even started one that long myself. Most of those are closed now though. :o :(

And more than half of the posts I came across either say "Jonathan is so dead" or don't pertain to the topic of discussion at all.

Anyway, this really has me stumped. I think I am just over-analyzing everything. On one hand, we all know Jonathan dies at some point. Then again, I keep thinking that it won't be him because its too soon and I don't think Jor-El will take his life. That will only push Clark farther away and we know he has to accept Jor-El at some point. I always thought it wouldn't be Chloe because he needs at least one friend who knows his secret, but if he's really telling Lana, I can seriously see it being her.

[Mike_D]

I don't think so: Jonathan's toast.

:p

Weat or white?

[rumpuso]

Isn't there a spoiler that the surprise is *who* kills the certain someone? I was just thinking that perhaps Jonathan and Lionel fight and maybe Jonathan actually wins this time, kills Lionel (accidentally) and then has a heart attack. Maybe the pictures are a tease and Clark is actually able to save Jonathan by taking him to the Fortress, but Lionel on the other hand...

That certainly would account for life changing dramatically after this episode.

[JAX]

I know it's not looking good. And I'm not trying to quash anyone's freedom of speech. I have no right to do that. But with all due respect to everyone here, I'd rather stick to boards where people aren't making merry over it.

Gina, look closley...most people on this board are actually pro JS staying on the show. But all indications say otherwise. I think he stayed "alive" that would be the biggest surprise of all.

Avid...your full of good ideas. We should get you to write some scirpts :)

[JAX]

Is it just me or is WB promoting graveyard scene as part of Fanatic?? I may have missed something, but it looks pretty clear that it is part of that episode.

[avidreader]

Avid...your full of good ideas. We should get you to write some scirpts :)

Gee thanks. :)

Is it just me or is WB promoting graveyard scene as part of Fanatic?? I may have missed something, but it looks pretty clear that it is part of that episode.

Its a general trailer for the next three episodes.

[GinaRenee]

I don't think anyone is making "merry" over it, I'm sorry if my flip response was that hurtful, Gina.

I didn't mean it to be.

It wasn't the "toast" part that hurt me, just for clarification -- it was the smiley face. And I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I've been really upset over all this, and I just lost it for a second. Sorry if I spoke out of turn.

[JAX]

Its a general trailer for the next three episodes.

No...I've seen that trailer. This looks like one just for Fanatic specifically. Go to http://thewb.warnerbros.com/web/show_episode.jsp?id=SM510
Its looks like a 20 sec clip for this thursday.

[Earthsea]

I don't think so: Jonathan's toast.

:p

Go to the last disc of Season 4 (which has "Special Features" and you will find the "behind the scenes" part of the Smallville writers section.). They outright say it there...

He posted that there as well

[avidreader]

No...I've seen that trailer. This looks like one just for Fanatic specifically. Go to http://thewb.warnerbros.com/web/show_episode.jsp?id=SM510
Its looks like a 20 sec clip for this thursday.

I still think its clips from upcoming episodes. Apparently all the events that unfold in Reckoning begin in Fanatic. I think its almost going to be a 3 parter.

[JAX]

I still think its clips from upcoming episodes. Apparently all the events that unfold in Reckoning begin in Fanatic. I think its almost going to be a 3 parter.

with the exception of the graveyard...all footage is from fanatic. What if the graveyard scene is from fanatic and not from Reckoning? What if that Samantha girl (Lex's stalker) dies in that episode and thats her coffin. It would make sense...

Im not saying that there wont be a death in ep 100, but the graveyard scene is the one I question.

[Earthsea]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/theanomaly2/785bbbfc.jpg

[mellyM]

Go to the last disc of Season 4 (which has "Special Features" and you will find the "behind the scenes" part of the Smallville writers section.). They outright say it there...

He posted that there as well
they can always change thier minds

[Gmanofsteel]

chloe . . . it should have been chloe

[Earthsea]

chloe . . . it should have been chloe

Her time will come

[avidreader]

Go to the last disc of Season 4 (which has "Special Features" and you will find the "behind the scenes" part of the Smallville writers section.). They outright say it there...

He posted that there as well

I just watched that featurette with Jeph Loeb talking about the Kents and Season 5 and doesnt he say "we'll have to see if they make it all the way to the end of the season."

[avidreader]

with the exception of the graveyard...all footage is from fanatic. What if the graveyard scene is from fanatic and not from Reckoning? What if that Samantha girl (Lex's stalker) dies in that episode and thats her coffin. It would make sense...

Im not saying that there wont be a death in ep 100, but the graveyard scene is the one I question.

Could be, but it would more likely be a dream. I dont think Clark would be upset about Samantha dying.

If it is a dream, it could be what prompts Clark to tell Lana. He doesnt want to lose her without her knowing the truth.

[Earthsea]

Could be, but it would more likely be a dream. I dont think Clark would be upset about Samantha dying.

Unless she rises from the grave eh

[Gmanofsteel]

Her time will come
yeah, but i really don't want jonathan to die.

[Earthsea]

yeah, but i really don't want jonathan to die.

Me either well I understand he obviously dies eventually but he should be alive long enough to see Clark in the suit :down

Should have been Chloe this Episode & save Jonathan for the Series Finale

[triplet]

It wasn't the "toast" part that hurt me, just for clarification -- it was the smiley face. And I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I've been really upset over all this, and I just lost it for a second. Sorry if I spoke out of turn.

No problem.

I'm sorry about the flip smiley.

[GinaRenee]

It's okay.

[avidreader]

It's okay.

He might come back for a flashback episode Gina.

chloe . . . it should have been chloe

Chloe's good for storytelling though. She's the only means at the moment to get Clark to Metropolis to involve him in more crime stories rather than FOTW ones.

I think it will be interesting to see the Lana/Chloe story play out now. Both girls know. One has known for a little while. One's his girlfriend/fiancee the other is his best friend. Should make for some good story between the two.

[Earthsea]

He might come back for a flashback episode Gina.



Chloe's good for storytelling though. She's the only means at the moment to get Clark to Metropolis to involve him in more crime stories rather than FOTW ones.

I think it will be interesting to see the Lana/Chloe story play out now. Both girls know. One has known for a little while. One's his girlfriend/fiancee the other is his best friend. Should make for some good story between the two.

If lana gets ticked at Chloe then maybe we will get a

CAT FIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!

:up:

[avidreader]

If lana gets ticked at Chloe then maybe we will get a

CAT FIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!

:up:

That would be funny. I love watching that scene in Delete with the two of them fighting.

But she cant get ticked at Chloe for knowing, and I think eventually she'll understand why she knew first. I think KK said something along those lines and I agree with her.

[JAX]

Could be, but it would more likely be a dream. I dont think Clark would be upset about Samantha dying.

If it is a dream, it could be what prompts Clark to tell Lana. He doesnt want to lose her without her knowing the truth.

That would be an intersting way of spinning it. Not bad..

I'm sticking with my gut...Graveyard scene = Fanatic.

[Serene]

It wasn't the "toast" part that hurt me, just for clarification -- it was the smiley face. And I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I've been really upset over all this, and I just lost it for a second. Sorry if I spoke out of turn.

I am sorry this is all so hard for you. Hey, I'm a Lana/Clana fan.. which means evolution has made me develop a very hard shell. :) But there are times that I still get really P.O'd too. And I'm sure I'd be a borderline nutcase if it seemed as likely that it was Lana who was going to be the Big death. Although, I do think she's still a possibility.

Anyway, I like to think that no one gets chased away from this board because of who they like, or don't like. It's all in the presentation..

[The Incredible Hulk]

It wasn't the "toast" part that hurt me, just for clarification -- it was the smiley face. And I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I've been really upset over all this, and I just lost it for a second. Sorry if I spoke out of turn.

geez, it's just a TV show. the sun will still come up on the 27th.... A lot of people feel that Jonathan's death is a necessary part of the mythos. If he does in fact die, which I'm still not convinced of, no matter how much others here seem so sure of themselves (and they could very well wind up looking like fools) it's not like we didnt know it was a possibility going into the show

[GinaRenee]

geez, it's just a TV show.

Granted. But ask some of those here how they'd feel if it were Clark being killed off the show (I know it couldn't happen, but just supposing it could).

[Kane]

That'd be funny actually..

[DarthSkywalker]

Then Chloe could be Superman. :p

Seriously though, killing off Pa Kent right now doesn't make a lick of sense. The only way this could help is if it strengths his bond with Jor-El, but then what happens to Ma Kent?

[KalKai]

lol killing Pa Kent now doesn't make sense? how many times he's been at the hospital? we're in Season 5 it's time for someone to die.

[KalKai]

Granted. But ask some of those here how they'd feel if it were Clark being killed off the show (I know it couldn't happen, but just supposing it could).

John Schneider is not dying, Jonathan Kent is.

[mellyM]

Granted. But ask some of those here how they'd feel if it were Clark being killed off the show (I know it couldn't happen, but just supposing it could).
I've thought about that too, it has to be hard for your favorite person to be leaving your favorite show (if SV is your favorite show)..if Tom were playing a secondary character on a show and he was killed off, it'd be horrible. So I feel your pain. I've always liked JS too, since the days I was climbing in and out of my mother's car windows, lol..so it hits home for me too, and I wish no one had to die.

[X-Chick]

The only way this could help is if it strengths his bond with Jor-El

If Clark thinks Jonathan's death is the result of Jor-El, it will drive him farther away from him. Especially since his heart condition was the result of the first deal made with Jor-El to save Clark. I don't see how Jonathan dying now will help anything.

[X-Chick]

I've thought about that too, it has to be hard for your favorite person to be leaving your favorite show (if SV is your favorite show)..if Tom were playing a secondary character on a show and he was killed off, it'd be horrible. So I feel your pain. I've always liked JS too, since the days I was climbing in and out of my mother's car windows, lol..so it hits home for me too, and I wish no one had to die.

Yeah, I can definitely get that. Luckily, my favorite character is around to stay. Though, seeing him in this light, I wish he didn't become the bad guy.

[DarthSkywalker]

lol killing Pa Kent now doesn't make sense? how many times he's been at the hospital? we're in Season 5 it's time for someone to die.

Pa Kent's death should be tied to Clark walking away from the farm. Going on to be Superman. If that is route you are taking, then this season should be your last.

If Clark thinks Jonathan's death is the result of Jor-El, it will drive him farther away from him. Especially since his heart condition was the result of the first deal made with Jor-El to save Clark. I don't see how Jonathan dying now will help anything.

That is what they have assumed. I don't think it has ever been confirmed. He very well my just be sick because of family history, a bad eating habit, and to much stress.

Clark could go to Jor-El for help and Jor-El may not be able to do anything. Clark could realize that his not listening to Jor-El has a lot to do with the problems he is having.

[X-Chick]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that.

[Red]

Clark could go to Jor-El for help and Jor-El may not be able to do anything. Clark could realize that his not listening to Jor-El has a lot to do with the problems he is having.

Thats what i was thinking, they ended up wussing out and killing JK that way.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Granted. But ask some of those here how they'd feel if it were Clark being killed off the show (I know it couldn't happen, but just supposing it could).

well it would then become the dumbest show ever put together, since it's a hero's coming of age tale, where they'd kill the hero off before he comes of age.

I guess though the vast majority of people who follow Superman would say that Superman is their favorite character in the tale, and perhaps Lex to a bit lesser extent, so no one really has much to worry about. In the whole grand scheme of Superman lore, everyone on the show except for Clark, Lex, and Lois play a pretty small role as they're hardly ever seen.

Though if Season 5 is the final season of the show, everyone loses their favorite character. If It's Jonathan, it would just be 10 episodes earlier than everyone else, and he could still be used in any number of flashback/dream sequences.

John Schneider is not dying, Jonathan Kent is.

Another valid point. If youre a JS fan above all else, he'll still be appearing in other things. His success on Smallville should help him in getting future gigs since he seems to have broken out of that "red neck" mold, ironic that he ever had that considering he's from NY and all

[AgentPat]

...If he does in fact die, which I'm still not convinced of, no matter how much others here seem so sure of themselves (and they could very well wind up looking like fools)You say something, Hulk?

http://www.patcostello.com/smileys/crazy.gif

^ Pat doing her best to look like a fool LOL

Then Chloe could be Superman.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Have they started a thread like that on K-Site yet? :p

Priceless. :up:

[Red]

Though if Season 5 is the final season of the show, everyone loses their favorite character. If It's Jonathan, it would just be 10 episodes earlier than everyone else, and he could still be used in any number of flashback/dream sequences.

I hate the use of character's in flash backs/dreams after they die just seems cheap.

[triplet]

Al & Miles I don't think like the flashback thingy too much, so I'm not sure how much Jonathan will be coming back.

If he does come back in a flashback episode, it would probably be a major one like Memoria or Lexmas so it would be tastefully done I'm sure.

No "it was only a dream" gimmicks like on Dallas.

[AgentPat]

I hate the use of character's in flash backs/dreams after they die just seems cheap.Could be worse - they could make the whole show a dream sequence.

Heard one morning on a remote farm in Dallas, TX:

Martha: [yelling from the kitchen] "Sweet heart, you're breakfast is ready."
Jonathan: [getting out of the shower] "I'll down in a minute."

:p

EDIT: Trip beat me to the punchline. :mad:

[The Incredible Hulk]

I hate the use of character's in flash backs/dreams after they die just seems cheap.

would you rather have the characters seeing them in visions and having conversations with them, like the father on 6 Feet Under?

[Red]

Could be worse - they could make the whole show a dream sequence.

Heard one morning on a remote farm in Dallas, TX:

Martha: [yelling from the kitchen] "Sweet heart, you're breakfast is ready."
Jonathan: [getting out of the shower] "I'll down in a minute."

:p

EDIT: Trip beat me to the punchline. :mad:


Or perhapes...

Clark awakens in his bed

Clark: That was weird, Dad?

Jor-El: Yes? Kal-El

[AgentPat]

Or perhapes...

Clark awakens in his bed

Clark: That was weird, Dad?

Jor-El: Yes? Kal-ElBrilliant!!! :up:

[Serene]

In the whole grand scheme of Superman lore, everyone on the show except for Clark, Lex, and Lois play a pretty small role as they're hardly ever seen.
I agree with you, in the grand scheme of Superman lore, but if you just look at the world we are talking about, Smallville, the series, things are a bit different. Jonathan, Martha, Lana, and Chloe are much more major players than, say.. Lois. At least so far.

I think it's possible that next season, Lois will be a much bigger presence on the show though. Perhaps she'll be signed for a full season as opposed to half.

[Gmanofsteel]

He might come back for a flashback episode Gina.


Chloe's good for storytelling though. She's the only means at the moment to get Clark to Metropolis to involve him in more crime stories rather than FOTW ones.

I think it will be interesting to see the Lana/Chloe story play out now. Both girls know. One has known for a little while. One's his girlfriend/fiancee the other is his best friend. Should make for some good story between the two.
Let me put it this way, i don't care about what she contributes to the story telling at all. She shouldn't know clark's secret, but she does. Jonathan died in STM, that alone should be enough. Chloe should have been the one.

[avidreader]

Let me put it this way, i don't care about what she contributes to the story telling at all. She shouldn't know clark's secret, but she does. Jonathan died in STM, that alone should be enough. Chloe should have been the one.

Well maybe that's the way it is in other Superman tales, but this is Smallville and she's very much a major player in this telling.

[Zorex]

Why shouldn't she know Clark's secret? What's your rationalization?

And you say that it's enough that Jon died in STM...do you mean, because of that, he shouldn't die in this telling of the story?

[Spaceballs]

Someone at BlueTights brought up a good point. Whos to say it is Jonathan in the accitdent on the High Way ? What if the accitdent is taking place WHILE Clark is at the FOS begging Jor El to revive Jonathan & Jor El agrees but Clark has to choose who he wants to save the most. Jonathan or whoever is in the High Way accitdent say Chloe for examble. Maybe Jor El would not be able to revive Jonathan without Clarks help & Jor El tells Clark that something is going to happen to someone else (Chloe) & Jor El says if Clark leaves AGAIN to help someone else Jor El will not revive Jonathan at all so Clark stays because Jonathan is the most important person to him in his life besides Martha. Well Clark will not know WHO is in the Accitdent he just knows its someone close to him & Jor El telling Clark about it could be another one of his "tests" Jor El could do this because he blew off Jor El to help Lana even after promising hed come back & Clark can promise he wont leave again & then Jor El tells Clark about something is going to happen on a High Way & Jor El makes the deal that Clark stays & help Jor El revive Jonathan & Jor El revives Jonathan in return Clark looses someone like say Chloe

[DarthSkywalker]

well it would then become the dumbest show ever put together, since it's a hero's coming of age tale, where they'd kill the hero off before he comes of age.

I guess though the vast majority of people who follow Superman would say that Superman is their favorite character in the tale, and perhaps Lex to a bit lesser extent, so no one really has much to worry about. In the whole grand scheme of Superman lore, everyone on the show except for Clark, Lex, and Lois play a pretty small role as they're hardly ever seen.

Though if Season 5 is the final season of the show, everyone loses their favorite character. If It's Jonathan, it would just be 10 episodes earlier than everyone else, and he could still be used in any number of flashback/dream sequences.

I seriously doubt this is the last season now. Which is why killing off Clark's compass seems a bit off right now. But we will see.

would you rather have the characters seeing them in visions and having conversations with them, like the father on 6 Feet Under?

I was kind of hoping for something more like John Wayne in Preacher.

Someone at BlueTights brought up a good point. Whos to say it is Jonathan in the accitdent on the High Way ? What if the accitdent is taking place WHILE Clark is at the FOS begging Jor El to revive Jonathan & Jor El agrees but Clark has to choose who he wants to save the most. Jonathan or whoever is in the High Way accitdent say Chloe for examble. Maybe Jor El would not be able to revive Jonathan without Clarks help & Jor El tells Clark that something is going to happen to someone else (Chloe) & Jor El says if Clark leaves AGAIN to help someone else Jor El will not revive Jonathan at all so Clark stays because Jonathan is the most important person to him in his life besides Martha. Well Clark will not know WHO is in the Accitdent he just knows its someone close to him & Jor El telling Clark about it could be another one of his "tests" Jor El could do this because he blew off Jor El to help Lana even after promising hed come back & Clark can promise he wont leave again & then Jor El tells Clark about something is going to happen on a High Way & Jor El makes the deal that Clark stays & help Jor El revive Jonathan & Jor El revives Jonathan in return Clark looses someone like say Chloe

If this happens. No one should watch this show again. That would be the stupidest thing in Superman history. Rivaling killer Supes in Bryne's run.

[Spaceballs]

I seriously doubt this is the last season now. Which is why killing off Clark's compass seems a bit off right now. But we will see.



I was kind of hoping for something more like John Wayne in Preacher.



If this happens. No one should watch this show again. That would be the stupidest thing in Superman history. Rivaling killer Supes in Bryne's run.

Why would it be stupid ? With Jor El Clark has always learned the HARD WAY & situations like these Clark can think back in the future & not do the same thing twice & besides STUPIDER things have happened on this Show to begin with. This show is about Clark Kent BECOMING Superman he wont always make the right choices. He has to learn SOMEWHERE

[DarthSkywalker]

Why would it be stupid ? With Jor El Clark has always learned the HARD WAY & situations like these Clark can think back in the future & not do the same thing twice & besides STUPIDER things have happened on this Show to begin with. This show is about Clark Kent BECOMING Superman he wont always make the right choices. He has to learn SOMEWHERE

Clark becoming Superman should not involve guilt.

Further more Clark would never let someone die, to revive someone else. That isn't what Superman would do. Not at age 16 and not at age 50.

[Red]

. Rivaling killer Supes in Bryne's run.

Can someone explain that to me?

[Spaceballs]

Clark becoming Superman should not involve guilt.

Further more Clark would never let someone die, to revive someone else. That isn't what Superman would do. Not at age 16 and not at age 50.

We got a whole Season or 2 before Clark becomes Superman. Clark CAN make mistakes. I dont think Clark is secretly worrying about right now at this point in the show what color should my Costume be. You worry about that stuff the Episode Clark DOES become Superman.

[avidreader]

I read on a couple of other sites that one of the Entertainment Programs was talking about all the network shows returning this week and they went on to talk about the death in Smallville.

This program (sorry I cant remember the name of it, its not one of the one's that I watch) also said that the death would not be Clark, Lana, Lois or Lex.

[Spaceballs]

I read on a couple of other sites that one of the Entertainment Programs was talking about all the network shows returning this week and they went on to talk about the death in Smallville.

This program (sorry I cant remember the name of it, its not one of the one's that I watch) also said that the death would not be Clark, Lana, Lois or Lex.

Now THAT is NOT a surprise

[Serene]

This program (sorry I cant remember the name of it, its not one of the one's that I watch) also said that the death would not be Clark, Lana, Lois or Lex.

That sounds like the quote from Ask Ausiello that was posted earlier in this thread.

[avidreader]

I've been thinking about this for a while, with the secret being revealed in this episode, I wonder if we'll get a revisit of the graveyard scene between Clark and Lana in the Pilot. She never did find out what was upsetting him that night.

[avidreader]

That sounds like the quote from Ask Ausiello that was posted earlier in this thread.

Yeah I read that, but this was on a TV show.

[avidreader]

Okay, I found this on another site and after some discussion in PM with fellow posters in here, I decided to post it on the main board. Its very spoilerish so I'll put tags around it.

It was posted by Yana at Sweet

COLOR=black]Well Jonathon dies half way through the ep, not at the end. Lional also dies in the car wreck. It's Jonathons death that sparks Clark to finally reveal all to Lana. It ends with them holding each other in the FOS. Apparantly the big reveal covers the whole last two scenes with just them and one Lex scene. Her [Lana] reaction is a shock, tears, and a decently long talk [between Clark and Lana] followed by compassion and then acceptance. She turns down his proposal for now. She brings up tons of instances she knew he was lying in. He tells her about what happened to Pete and how often his parents have been in danger and brings up her parents death. The first scene of the reveal Lana is pissed and very, very hurt...the second seems to be reality and that she knows him. The proposal comes out of the blue. Clark takes her to the FOS and starts with the meteor shower on up till now and he makes it clear that he never told anyone of his own free will except her. He does show her his powers.[/COLOR]




This poster has received inside information before and claims it has never been wrong.

[Serene]

Okay, I found this on another site and after some discussion in PM with fellow posters in here, I decided to post it on the main board. Its very spoilerish so I'll put tags around it.

Well once it's posted on any of the main SV boards, it's going to get around like wildfire anyway. :)

Man.. I like most of what it says. If we have to have someone go, the double-daddy death is a nice way to progress both Clark and Lex's stories.

And not having Lana instantly forgive, or hate, Clark, but rather a more rational long discussion with a whole range of emotions is SO much more believable.

Gah.. I'm going to cry throughout this whole ep, I'm afraid. :( First, with Jonathan dying.. hell, even Lionel's death will make me sad. Then Clark telling Lana.. and proposing.. and her turning him down! :(

I won't believe anything 100% until the ep airs.. but this sounds very plausible.

[avidreader]

Well once it's posted on any of the main SV boards, it's going to get around like wildfire anyway. :)

Man.. I like most of what it says. If we have to have someone go, the double-daddy death is a nice way to progress both Clark and Lex's stories.

And not having Lana instantly forgive, or hate, Clark, but rather a more rational long discussion with a whole range of emotions is SO much more believable.

Gah.. I'm going to cry throughout this whole ep, I'm afraid. :( First, with Jonathan dying.. hell, even Lionel's death will make me sad. Then Clark telling Lana.. and proposing.. and her turning him down! :(

I won't believe anything 100% until the ep airs.. but this sounds very plausible.

I agree Serene it all sounds like perfect progression. I wonder what inspires Clark to reveal after the death.

[The Incredible Hulk]

I agree with you, in the grand scheme of Superman lore, but if you just look at the world we are talking about, Smallville, the series, things are a bit different. Jonathan, Martha, Lana, and Chloe are much more major players than, say.. Lois. At least so far.

I think it's possible that next season, Lois will be a much bigger presence on the show though. Perhaps she'll be signed for a full season as opposed to half.

I realize that, but my point was that no one who's into Superman is going to say that Jonathan Kent is their favorite character in the myth. The whole attraction to the myth in the first place is Superman

[The Incredible Hulk]

Can someone explain that to me?

I think he meant Byrne "killing" Supes not "Killer" Supes... He's referring to the whole Death of Superman fiasco when he died fighting Doomsday, however that wasnt written by John Byrne. Byrne left Superman in 1989. Death was written in 1993... Ironically enough that was right around the same time my interest in Superman comics died for about 8 years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Superman

[avidreader]

I realize that, but my point was that no one who's into Superman is going to say that Jonathan Kent is their favorite character in the myth. The whole attraction to the myth in the first place is Superman

Wont get any argument from me on that one.:up:

[GinaRenee]

I realize that, but my point was that no one who's into Superman is going to say that Jonathan Kent is their favorite character in the myth. The whole attraction to the myth in the first place is Superman

Well, I'm not "into" Superman. Never was. I started watching the show because a film professor acquaintance of mine was telling me how much he enjoyed the portrayal of the Kent father-son relationship, so I took a look myself and was drawn in. And Jonathan became my favorite character.

But then, Hawkeye was never my favorite character on "MASH," either. And I'm far from being sure that Sam was my favorite character on "Cheers." So I guess I'm a poor sort of fan for any show. Just can't seem to follow the rules properly. :)

[GinaRenee]

Okay, I found this on another site and after some discussion in PM with fellow posters in here, I decided to post it on the main board. Its very spoilerish so I'll put tags around it.

It was posted by Yana at Sweet

COLOR=black]Well Jonathon dies half way through the ep, not at the end. Lional also dies in the car wreck. It's Jonathons death that sparks Clark to finally reveal all to Lana. It ends with them holding each other in the FOS. Apparantly the big reveal covers the whole last two scenes with just them and one Lex scene. Her [Lana] reaction is a shock, tears, and a decently long talk [between Clark and Lana] followed by compassion and then acceptance. She turns down his proposal for now. She brings up tons of instances she knew he was lying in. He tells her about what happened to Pete and how often his parents have been in danger and brings up her parents death. The first scene of the reveal Lana is pissed and very, very hurt...the second seems to be reality and that she knows him. The proposal comes out of the blue. Clark takes her to the FOS and starts with the meteor shower on up till now and he makes it clear that he never told anyone of his own free will except her. He does show her his powers.[/COLOR]




This poster has received inside information before and claims it has never been wrong.

That's interesting . . . I heard that TWOP guy was claiming that Lionel survives the episode. But I didn't actually read his post firsthand, so who knows. Kind of like playing "Telephone"!

[The Incredible Hulk]

Well, I'm not "into" Superman. Never was. I started watching the show because a film professor acquaintance of mine was telling me how much he enjoyed the portrayal of the Kent father-son relationship, so I took a look myself and was drawn in. And Jonathan became my favorite character.

But then, Hawkeye was never my favorite character on "MASH," either. And I'm far from being sure that Sam was my favorite character on "Cheers." So I guess I'm a poor sort of fan for any show. Just can't seem to follow the rules properly. :)

this wouldve been a great post had I been actually talking about Smallville as a stand alone entity, and not the Superman legend in general....actually now that I think of it, it wouldnt have been because the premise of MASH wasnt the story of Hawkeye, and Cheers' premise wasnt the story of Sam Malone..

[boydston_14]

Holy crap! I like the idea, but now I kinda wish I hadn't read that so I would have been a bit more shocked when the episode premiered, but it's cool anyways.

[boydston_14]

EDIT: Sorry, double post.

[triplet]

Well, I'm not "into" Superman. Never was. I started watching the show because a film professor acquaintance of mine was telling me how much he enjoyed the portrayal of the Kent father-son relationship, so I took a look myself and was drawn in. And Jonathan became my favorite character.

But then, Hawkeye was never my favorite character on "MASH," either. And I'm far from being sure that Sam was my favorite character on "Cheers." So I guess I'm a poor sort of fan for any show. Just can't seem to follow the rules properly. :)

Well, I liked Sam in Cheers but I loathed Alan Alda in MASH.

Still do.

He's just about come close to killing my watching The West Wing, actually. I used to watch MASH but I stopped after they started to spending so much time on his storylines...

Meh...

We all come to the show for different reasons. I happen to love Clark and like Jonathan. Some people barely tolerate Clark, I can't understand that but you probably can't understand why I only "like" Jonathan....

To each his own.

[GinaRenee]

Hulk, I don't understand your point. I'm trying to, but I'm not getting it. I thought you were saying that a true Superman fan wouldn't like Jonathan best, and I was responding that I wasn't a true Superman fan as you would define it. So . . . what did I miss?

ETA: I liked Hawkeye, actually. I just liked Radar better. :)

[Kane]

From the WB official description:

"there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help."

Clark loves Lionel? :confused:

[triplet]

From the WB official description:

"there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help."

Clark loves Lionel? :confused:

No, of course not.

You need to read all of the spoiler...

Well Jonathan dies half way through the ep, not at the end.

Lionel ALSO dies in the car wreck. It's Jonathan's death that sparks Clark to finally reveal all to Lana. It ends with them holding each other in the FOS. Apparantly the big reveal covers the whole last two scenes with just them and one Lex scene.

Her reaction is a shock, tears, and a decently long talk followed by compassion and then acceptance. She turns down his proposal for now. She brings up tons of instances she knew he was lying. He tells her about what happened to Pete and how often his parents have been in danger and brings up her parents death.

The first scene of the reveal Lana is pissed and very, very hurt...the second seems to be reality and that she knows him. The proposal comes out of the blue. Clark takes her to the FOS and starts with the meteor shower on up till now and he makes it clear that he never told anyone of his own free will except her. He does show her his powers.

[avidreader]

From the WB official description:

"there is a tragic car accident on the highway that takes the life of someone Clark loves. A desperate Clark appeals to Jor-El for help."

Clark loves Lionel? :confused:

No, but he does love Jonathan.

I think the car crash is between the two of them

[Kane]

But I thought John dies of a heart attack? Not a car crash?

Thats what confused me.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hulk, I don't understand your point. I'm trying to, but I'm not getting it. I thought you were saying that a true Superman fan wouldn't like Jonathan best, and I was responding that I wasn't a true Superman fan as you would define it. So . . . what did I miss?

ETA: I liked Hawkeye, actually. I just liked Radar better.

I didnt say anything about being a "true Superman fan." My point was that people get drawn to the legend of Superman in the first place because of well, Superman. I wasnt talking about why people watch Smallville

BTW Cheers just came on here... that was REALLY weird :eek:

[avidreader]

But I thought John dies of a heart attack? Not a car crash?

Thats what confused me.

He could have a heart attack as a consequence of the car crash.

[Kane]

or maybe the heart attack itself causes him to crash

[The Incredible Hulk]

poor guy has been in more wrecks than Knievel....

[DarthSkywalker]

I think he meant Byrne "killing" Supes not "Killer" Supes... He's referring to the whole Death of Superman fiasco when he died fighting Doomsday, however that wasnt written by John Byrne. Byrne left Superman in 1989. Death was written in 1993... Ironically enough that was right around the same time my interest in Superman comics died for about 8 years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Superman

I was talking when he went and killed a defenseless Zod.

And as for these new spoilers. This may very well be the most boring episode possible.

[The Incredible Hulk]

And as for these new spoilers. This may very well be the most boring episode possible.

But yet you continue to post about it :confused:

[avidreader]

I was talking when he went and killed a defenseless Zod.

And as for these new spoilers. This may very well be the most boring episode possible.

Then I guess you'll be alone and wont be watching. :rolleyes:

[Serene]

And as for these new spoilers. This may very well be the most boring episode possible.

Damn! There goes the ratings for that night. :(


:rolleyes:

[AgentPat]

Don't worry, Darth. I'm sure there's a good rerun of Buffy you can catch.

[triplet]

ooops.

[triplet]

Too bad.. you'll miss SMG in a cameo role as a naughty nurse in SV medical center!

:D

[Abaddon]

I hope you guys don't think Darth represents all us Buffy fans.:(

[Serene]

I hope you guys don't think Darth represents all us Buffy fans.:(

No worries, Abaddon.. I was a BtVS fan too. Not nearly to the degree that I am a SV fan though.

We're just having some fun... :)

[user123456789]

avid I LOVE YOU TY FOR THAT SPOILER

[GinaRenee]

Oh, brother. Guess poor Darth hasn't yet learned his "no expressing negative opinions about 'Smallville'!" lesson yet. :rolleyes:

Getting back to the spoilers, we still haven't figured out who's right about Lionel -- the TWOP person who's never wrong, or the Sweet person who's never wrong. At least this once, one of them HAS to be wrong. Any guesses as to whom?

[AgentPat]

Oh, brother. Guess poor Darth hasn't yet learned his "no expressing negative opinions about 'Smallville'!" lesson yet. :rolleyes:Meh. Folks here are very tolerant of dissenting opinions. But come on! There's almost 1500 posts in this thread, and the episode hasn't even aired yet. It's the 100th episode of the show, a milestone for any TV show, and consequently one in which writers and producers usually pull out all the stops for. We've got teaser pics showing a very obvious marriage proposal - at the FOS no less. We have an *official* synopsis describing, among other things, Clark revealing his secret to Lana (!!!) and we know a cast regular - a character that "Clark loves" - will die. I think it's safe to say Reckoning will be anything BUT "boring." So I'll reiterate, Darth can watch an old episode of Buffy if he thinks THIS ep of SV will be disappointing. Buffy was so much better than SV, after all.

[Serene]

Oh, brother. Guess poor Darth hasn't yet learned his "no expressing negative opinions about 'Smallville'!" lesson yet. :rolleyes:

How about the lesson in "no making pissy comments" unless you are okay with getting one in return?

[rumpuso]

Just curious...why are we now putting spoiler tags around our discussions in this thread? Isn't everything in this thread at this point in time a spoiler anyway?

[Mike_D]

Just read some of the recent spoiler-tagged info, I must say I am now even more excited to see it. :D

[musclesforsupes]

I have figured out the code!!!!


http://scd.mm-c1.yimg.com/image/1304623986

+

http://scd.mm-b1.yimg.com/image/572941992


= http://scd.mm-b1.yimg.com/image/714969498

[triplet]

Just curious...why are we now putting spoiler tags around our discussions in this thread? Isn't everything in this thread at this point in time a spoiler anyway?

Avid was just being super cautious... the info was much more specific about some pretty major plot points than is normal for spoilers.

[avidreader]

avid I LOVE YOU TY FOR THAT SPOILER

:O

Avid was just being super cautious... the info was much more specific about some pretty major plot points than is normal for spoilers.

Indeed I was. :)

Oh, brother. Guess poor Darth hasn't yet learned his "no expressing negative opinions about 'Smallville'!" lesson yet. :rolleyes:


He's entitled to his freedom of speech but if you want to say something negative then a negative reply is likely to happen.

[DarthSkywalker]

Meh. Folks here are very tolerant of dissenting opinions. But come on! There's almost 1500 posts in this thread, and the episode hasn't even aired yet. It's the 100th episode of the show, a milestone for any TV show, and consequently one in which writers and producers usually pull out all the stops for. We've got teaser pics showing a very obvious marriage proposal - at the FOS no less. We have an *official* synopsis describing, among other things, Clark revealing his secret to Lana (!!!) and we know a cast regular - a character that "Clark loves" - will die. I think it's safe to say Reckoning will be anything BUT "boring." So I'll reiterate, Darth can watch an old episode of Buffy if he thinks THIS ep of SV will be disappointing. Buffy was so much better than SV, after all.

Just so i am clear. I "was" hyped for this episode and have enjoyed this season a lot. Just because i don't think something sounds all that great, doesn't mean i am not going to watch it. I obviously am going to. For those who seem to think i bring up Buffy and Angel, you are the ones that seemed hell bent on bringing it up every time.

For all your jokes, and all your little insults. You haven't made one case for why this special 100 episode should be anything other then boring.

Sure two people will die. Ok, good start. He ask Lana to marry him, ok i can live with that, epspecially considering they are going to the FOS. But so far i haven't seen one indication that this will live up to the hype of a milestone episode.

But this stinks of the same problem of the season permeire episode. We will get the non strong points of the show (Writing and acting) taking center stage, over what should be something a little more epic in scope. You will get that taste, and then have it taken away by a 10 second push fight.

Now i am not asking for a super battle. But i seriously do hope we get a little more then a bunch of talking and crying. Case not one of these actors is exactly going to stun you with their acting chops all of a sudden.

He's entitled to his freedom of speech but if you want to say something negative then a negative reply is likely to happen.

Of course there is also no need to insult me.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Just so i am clear. I "was" hyped for this episode and have enjoyed this season a lot. Just because i don't think something sounds all that great, doesn't mean i am not going to watch it. I obviously am going to. For those who seem to think i bring up Buffy and Angel, you are the ones that seemed hell bent on bringing it up every time.

For all your jokes, and all your little insults. You haven't made one case for why this special 100 episode should be anything other then boring.

Read Pat's posty above, it makes a fine case.


Sure two people will die. Ok, good start. He ask Lana to marry him, ok i can live with that, epspecially considering they are going to the FOS. But so far i haven't seen one indication that this will live up to the hype of a milestone episode.

What exactly are you expecting to see about an episode "living up to it's hype"? :confused: You're only going to be able to make that determination after you've actually seen it.


But this stinks of the same problem of the season permeire episode. We will get the non strong points of the show (Writing and acting) taking center stage, over what should be something a little more epic in scope. You will get that taste, and then have it taken away by a 10 second push fight.

Now i am not asking for a super battle. But i seriously do hope we get a little more then a bunch of talking and crying. Case not one of these actors is exactly going to stun you with their acting chops all of a sudden.


You have unrealistic expectations of any network TV show if you think you're ever going to be "stunned" by someone's acting chops. If that's the experience you're seeking, then I'd suggest going to see one of the Royal Theater Companies, or something by people out of Juliard.

Smallville's cast does fine with it's roles. They've all grown in them for the past 5 seasons, and even some of them who started out weaker have gotten considerably better. The "acting" critique I see on SHH about any movie/show, seems like the default knock when people are trying to be critical of something, and are grasping at straws. Most people on here wouldnt know "good acting" if it kicked them in the head.

[avidreader]

Darth the events that are happening in this episode are epic. Events have been unfolding over the last four years and will reach a pinnacle in this episode. Things will start to change from here on end.

If you find the actual content boring then no one can change your mind about that.

Me personally, I think they all sound so damn exciting that I can hardly wait to see it all played out.

Of course there is also no need to insult me.

Well I dont think I insulted you with my comment and I dont believe anyone else did either. If I did, I apologise.

[AgentPat]

...You haven't made one case for why this special 100 episode should be anything other then boring.There's close to 1500 posts here (some with actual stills from the episode) that show why Reckoning promises to be nothing less than amazing. If you've watched the show from the beginning, you KNOW how earth shattering a moment Clark's reveal will likely be. We've only been waiting... oh... five freakin' years for this. Not only does he tell her. He shows her. That alone is worth the price of admission right there.

Furthermore, the deaths are going to be a MAJOR turning point in the story for both Clark and Lex. These characters are bookends; they share so much in common but are on two different paths. Once their fathers are gone - the men that molded them to what they are today - the next stage in their destinies will begin to unfold: the son becomes the father.

If you can't see how just these two events will be groundbreaking edge-of-your-seat material and aren't already foaming at the mouth to see the ep, SV just aint for you.

But this stinks of the same problem of the season premiere episode. We will get the non strong points of the show (Writing and acting) taking center stage, over what should be something a little more epic in scope. You will get that taste, and then have it taken away by a 10 second push fight. Now i am not asking for a super battle. But i seriously do hope we get a little more then a bunch of talking and crying. Case not one of these actors is exactly going to stun you with their acting chops all of a sudden.
:rolleyes:

SV is definitely NOT for you. What you've boiled down to a "bunch of talking and crying" is the heart and soul of the show. It's NOT about super battles. It's about the rise of a hero and the fall of a villain. It's about the people and events that mold them. It's story telling through exposition. It's creating a relatable pathos for both characters that the audience can identify with. If you only watch the show for the action scenes because you feel the actors aren't up to par, then you're only going to grow more weary. Please, stop watching now, before you hurt yourself. Rent a Michael Bay movie or something. At least there's tons of action in his films that compensate for lack of acting chops. :p

[triplet]

I wasn't all that wild about how underwhelming the fight in the season preem was but that episode had so much else going for it.

It was a hugely important episode in terms of the mythos and I thought it was hugely exciting. Reckoning may not be "exciting" in terms of action, but the drama I expect will be fantastic and I can't wait the two and half weeks until it gets here.

[Red]

I wasn't all that wild about how underwhelming the fight in the season preem was but that episode had so much else going for it.

It was a hugely important episode in terms of the mythos and I thought it was hugely exciting. Reckoning may not be "exciting" in terms of action, but the drama I expect will be fantastic and I can't wait the two and half weeks until it gets here.

If we all watched SV for the action then we would have stopped watching a long time ago.

[AgentPat]

If we all watched SV for the action then we would have stopped watching a long time ago.:up:

I agree with Trip. If you're going to boil SV down to anything, it's a drama first and foremost. The action and effects are secondary to character interaction and development.

[avidreader]

The thing is Smallville offers a bit of everything in terms of drama, action and all those other words everyone is using, always has and always will.

But the heart and soul of the show is the characters.

[triplet]

The thing is Smallville offers a bit of everything in terms of drama, action and all those other words everyone is using, always has and always will.

But the heart and soul of the show is the characters.

Yep, exactly.

If I didn't love the characters, I wouldn't love the show so much, so I do care what happens to them. So many shows fail when they have action but no heart. You have to have heart, or what's the point?

Many of the best action films are (at their core) love stories (I could give a laundry list but I'll restrain myself....) so this isn't just about TV shows and how they reel audiences in, it's about story telling. The best action and special effects won't put as many butts in the seats if the characters fail to engage the audience.

For a TV show, it's vital to have characters you care about. You've got 22 hours a season to fill up and if you want your audience to stick with you from week to week, then you have to have characters they want to succeed. You need to get them invested in their problems.

It's key and Smallvlle does it very, very well.

Yeah, there's action but there's also great drama and wonderful relationsips. It's got it all.

I love this show and the 26th can't come soon enough for me!

[AgentPat]

...If I didn't love the characters, I wouldn't love the show so much

...You have to have heart, or what's the point?

...The best action and special effects won't put as many butts in the seats if the characters fail to engage the audience.

...it's vital to have characters you care about.

...You need to get [audiences] invested in the [character's] problems.http://www.patcostello.com/smileys/worthy.gif

What she said! :up:

[avidreader]

Found another picture. :)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/suetomup/213509724yb.jpg

[GinaRenee]

Not watermarked?? How is that possible?

[avidreader]

Not watermarked?? How is that possible?

I'm not sure, but I noticed that too.

[user123456789]

Found another picture. :)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/suetomup/213509724yb.jpg

he truly indeed does tower over her!

[GinaRenee]

And it was from the same source? Somebody's slipping.

[avidreader]

he truly indeed does tower over her!

She looks tiny doesnt she?

Gina I got it at Sweet but it wasnt posted by Jana. So I'm not sure where the poster got it from, no one has asked her and I only lurk I dont post.

[user123456789]

She looks tiny doesnt she?

Gina I got it at Sweet but it wasnt posted by Jana. So I'm not sure where the poster got it from, no one has asked her and I only lurk I dont post.

who is this twop person and sweet person? what have they both said? they both have never been wrong?

[Serene]

who is this twop person and sweet person? what have they both said? they both have never been wrong?
Both are anonymous sources.. one from TWOP, and one else reported by someone at Sweet. I have no idea if them never being wrong before is true or not. It's all just more speculative fun to keep us busy for a few weeks.

[avidreader]

Both are anonymous sources.. one from TWOP, and one else reported by someone at Sweet. I have no idea if them never being wrong before is true or not. It's all just more speculative fun to keep us busy for a few weeks.

Re Specs. I think Lana may help Clark with Chloe in Tomb. The next episode Vengeance she's probably dealing with "issues" and I think we may even see some Martha/Lana scenes.

Cyborg is supposed to air around Valentines Day, what's the bet she accepts the ring in that episode.

[user123456789]

Both are anonymous sources.. one from TWOP, and one else reported by someone at Sweet. I have no idea if them never being wrong before is true or not. It's all just more speculative fun to keep us busy for a few weeks.

what does twop & sweet mean? are they people?

[Tron5000]

I think Pete dies...

[Serene]

what does twop & sweet mean? are they people?
They are other websites. TWOP stands for Television Without Pity. They have a SV forum as well as forums for lots of other shows. Sweet is a website with an emphasis on Clark and Lana that also has a forum - much smaller scale than TWOP.

[user123456789]

They are other websites. TWOP stands for Television Without Pity. They have a SV forum as well as forums for lots of other shows. Sweet is a website with an emphasis on Clark and Lana that also has a forum - much smaller scale than TWOP.

can someone here provide me links to both?

(hopefully google will suffice)

[user123456789]

can someone here provide me links to both?

(hopefully google will suffice)

gotemmmmmmmm

[Spaceballs]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/209/00xb.jpg



Clark - "Okay Lana this is the game plan you go long get open & I'll throw the ball & you catch it do you got it"

Lana - "Just throw the damn ball"

[Serene]

^^rofl!!!

[avidreader]

Okay, found out that picture came from here.

http://khwbtv.trb.com/entertainment/wbnetwork/stv-smallville-pkg,0,2349512.special?coll=khwb-home-nav&fif

[The Incredible Hulk]

Found another picture. :)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/suetomup/213509724yb.jpg

"Oh so you think you can wisk me away to your fancy ice palace, and I'm just gonna be ok with the fact that you probed me with your alien thingy? Well let me tell you sumthin' "

[The Incredible Hulk]

who is this twop person and sweet person? what have they both said? they both have never been wrong?

It's like that riddle where two guys guard two doors, one leads to endless riches and the other leads to painful death. One guard always tells the truth and the other always lies, and you can only ask them one question.... :confused:

[AgentPat]

It's like that riddle where two guys guard two doors, one leads to endless riches and the other leads to painful death. One guard always tells the truth and the other always lies, and you can only ask them one question.... :confused:ROFLMFAO!!!! Brilliant!!! :up:

[avidreader]

It's like that riddle where two guys guard two doors, one leads to endless riches and the other leads to painful death. One guard always tells the truth and the other always lies, and you can only ask them one question.... :confused:

Do I take the blue pill or the red pill? :confused:

*************


Actually, I just read a post from Jana at Sweet, no site is allowed to put their watermarks on any WB released images from now on. I think thats how it read, it was a tad confusing.

[Serene]

Do I take the blue pill or the red pill? :confused:

*************


Actually, I just read a post from Jana at Sweet, no site is allowed to put their watermarks on any WB released images from now on. I think thats how it read, it was a tad confusing.
I saw that too. I believe it said that they all have to be a uniform size and watermarked as from the "WB." All of the previous season five pics are going to be pulled and redone this way.

[AgentPat]

I saw that too. I believe it said that they all have to be a uniform size and watermarked as from the "WB." All of the previous season five pics are going to be pulled and redone this way.Really?

Damn them Snowballs.

Where's Jack? :p

[Spaceballs]

Pictures with no logos SWEET. Makes manips easier :up:

[jas01724]

Actually, I just read a post from Jana at Sweet, no site is allowed to put their watermarks on any WB released images from now on. I think thats how it read, it was a tad confusing.They've always had that rule if you actually ask them, but they only tend to enforce it if given reason to. Posting images that shouldn't have even been released yet is one good way to catch their attention, and DFN has apparently been caught out ...

I'd be happy enough to that if asked, I barely mark images as it is.

As for the WB affiliate site posting a few of the stills, it looks like they did what I thought they might: release some of them earlier than they might have otherwise done. But notice, still no pictures of Jonathan! ;)

[Lt. Figgnuts]

You have unrealistic expectations of any network TV show if you think you're ever going to be "stunned" by someone's acting chops. If that's the experience you're seeking, then I'd suggest going to see one of the Royal Theater Companies, or something by people out of Juliard.

On the contrary, there have been a few network shows that have had some very fine actors, and a few that have shocked me for being as good as they are and being on network television.

[Dark_Lord]

Kryptonsite has the images up: http://www.kryptonsite.com/reckoninggallery1.htm