Hrmmmmm,...... PowerGirl?

[Varient]

So I read the fourth issue of JSA presents,.. and find out that the original origion is the real one.

I'm sorta underwhelmed.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2345&stc=1

[RAMORE]

and what was the original origin?

[Ultimate_Superman]

So the question now is for me is if she is Superman's cousin or not? When I say that I mean Post Crisis

[King_Mungi]

Basically the original story is: she's Kryptonian and Clark's cousin

[Sentry2005]

basically, she is.

She's Earth 2's Kara. Thats why her powers fritz around supergirl... they are actually the same person inhabiting the same space.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Yea but she is earth-2 Superman's cousin and since he is still around I am just wondering if that mean she is his cousin alone or Post-Crisis as well.

[TheCorpulent1]

Her post-Crisis origin, as we just learned in JSA Classified #4, IS her pre-Crisis one. So yeah, she would be Earth-2 Superman's cousin.

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the resolution of that story myself. I figured that's what it would be, but I kept hoping Johns would do something more interesting. Oh well.

Here's a thought, though: Since Power Girl and Supergirl are alternate dimension counterparts, shouldn't they be destabilizing Hypertime by being in the same dimension? That's what happened when Walter and Wally West were present in the main DC dimension simultaneously for just a few days, let alone the months that Supergirl's now been on Earth.

[Ultimate_Superman]

I dont think so because she is not Supergirl. Now I think that would happen if Earth-One Supergirl lived but she didn't so I dont see that being a problem to much I want to know how Superman reacts to the news now though.

[DrMylesOBoogie]

What heppened to the original Kara that appeared in the comics as Supergirl. Did she become Powergirl when she got older?

[Ultimate_Superman]

She died in COIE

[DrMylesOBoogie]

She died in COIEThat was earth 1 Superman's cousin not the older eath 2 one. The earth 2 Supe's had a Supergirl back when Streaky and Beppo fleshed out the Superman family.

[Ultimate_Superman]

No that was Earth-One; Earth-two only had power girl.

[DrMylesOBoogie]

No that was Earth-One; Earth-two only had power girl.Thanks for clearing that up. I guess it makes sense now because Barry Allen and Hal Jordan would have been around at that time. I keep forgetting that the JSA were on a different earth to those guys.

[Lackey]

Her post-Crisis origin, as we just learned in JSA Classified #4, IS her pre-Crisis one. So yeah, she would be Earth-2 Superman's cousin.

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the resolution of that story myself. I figured that's what it would be, but I kept hoping Johns would do something more interesting. Oh well.

Here's a thought, though: Since Power Girl and Supergirl are alternate dimension counterparts, shouldn't they be destabilizing Hypertime by being in the same dimension? That's what happened when Walter and Wally West were present in the main DC dimension simultaneously for just a few days, let alone the months that Supergirl's now been on Earth.

I'm actually very glad they went this route with her origin because it is definitely better than any of the other speculations.

Also, there's still quite a bit of mystery left because we don't know "how" or "why" she survived and why she doesn't remember.
Can't wait for Infinite Crisis #2

[Varient]

So the question now is for me is if she is Superman's cousin or not? When I say that I mean Post Crisis
In this place and time?

NO.
She is a kyrptonian Female from an Alternate Universe,.. no relation whatsoever to Superman in this Universe.

Too bad Clarks already married.

[TheCorpulent1]

Isn't she still basically invulnerable to Kryptonite, though? Or is that possibly because it's not her universe's Kryptonite?

[Ultimate_Superman]

Really then Kryptonite shouldn't hurt her because to the end of Earth-2 and Earth-1 Superman; Kryptonite had little to no effect at all on him. In fact I remember in one issue he ate a pice of it and said it taste good.

[Lorendiac]

Here's a thought, though: Since Power Girl and Supergirl are alternate dimension counterparts, shouldn't they be destabilizing Hypertime by being in the same dimension? That's what happened when Walter and Wally West were present in the main DC dimension simultaneously for just a few days, let alone the months that Supergirl's now been on Earth.

Nope, because a few months ago at the big San Diego convention, Dan DiDio was sitting on an Infinite Crisis panel, and in response to a question from the audience, he said firmly:

"Hypertime is gone from the DCU."

Apparently, near as I can tell from the reports by people who were there and heard him say it, DiDio did not bother to define exactly what changes that would mean in the way DC told stories in its comic books from now on.

My own take on it was something along these lines: "Is he saying that alternate timelines are gone now? Probably not. That we will never again see characters from the mainstream Earth of the DCU successfully travel to and from those alternate timelines? Probably not. That shameless retcons and reboots are gone? Probably not. That writers won't be allowed to contradict each other at the drop of a hat? Probably not. So what is he saying? Probably that the word 'Hypertime' will no longer be mentioned as the excuse for all of the above, although of course all of the above will continue to happen, same as before!" ;)

I should add that he was probably also saying that Mark Waid's "rules of Hypertime" will never be seen or heard from again, so we should stop worrying about them.

Of course, all of the above is merely my Best Guess as to what he meant by that short, simple sentence - but I suspect I'm pretty close to the truth.

[TheCorpulent1]

Hypertime's probably gone because they're reinstating the pre-Crisis alternate Earths in some way.

[Supergirl]

In this place and time?

NO.
She is a kyrptonian Female from an Alternate Universe,.. no relation whatsoever to Superman in this Universe.

Too bad Clarks already married.
Uh, did you miss the last page of Infinite Crisis #1? That old guy in the Superman costume? That's her cousin. Since she is the same person as Kara (as evident in Supergirl #1) she would technically be this world's Kal-El's cousin also.

[Kurosawa]

They shouldn't have ever changed her origin in the first place.

[Anubis]

Hey, you must be pretty psyched about the idea of the possible return of the Multiverse?

[HighVoltage]

So I read the fourth issue of JSA presents,.. and find out that the original origion is the real one.

I'm sorta underwhelmed.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2345&stc=1

So (hmm ) they are natural?:eek::D

Because that symmetry is Beautiful.

[Kurosawa]

Hey, you must be pretty psyched about the idea of the possible return of the Multiverse?

Very. They should bring it back, keep the current Earth and cut the two off from each other and never have them interact-and keep that rule for once. Then everyone would get what they'd want and series that really need their Multiverse ties like JSA and Legion could be whole again.

[Anubis]

I don't know, I like the way the JSA is now. Legion too although I would really like to see them get ahold of Superboy Prime by the end of IC.

[Johnny DC]

So, let me see if I can clear this up. The current Superman came from Earth 1, in which he had a Supergirl named Kara and was in the JLA. This Kara died in the first Crisis.

Earth 2 consisted of the Golden Age heroes in the JSA, where Superman never had a cousin, but Powergirl was also a Kryptonian named Kara. This Kara was transfered into the UNIverse along with everyone else, but for some reason wasn't aged the same way Green Lantern (AS) or others from the JSA were. Also, for some reason, her origin was forgotten or skewed during the merger.

Right?

[Scorpion]

No Power Girl IS Earth 2 Superman's cousin from Krypton in the Earth 2's Universe. It was explained in the last JSA Classified.

[Johnny DC]

But everything else is right? The issue is why she hasn't aged and why her origin was f'ed up?

[Supergirl]

So, let me see if I can clear this up. The current Superman came from Earth 1, in which he had a Supergirl named Kara and was in the JLA. This Kara died in the first Crisis.

Earth 2 consisted of the Golden Age heroes in the JSA, where Superman never had a cousin, but Powergirl was also a Kryptonian named Kara. This Kara was transfered into the UNIverse along with everyone else, but for some reason wasn't aged the same way Green Lantern (AS) or others from the JSA were. Also, for some reason, her origin was forgotten or skewed during the merger.

Right?
By the time the Earth's merged most of the JSAers were already old. Kara Zor-L arrived at her Earth much later than Kal-L had. She was closer in age to Bruce Wayne's daughter than she was to her cousin.

[Laley]

Aaargg... Head hurts. That's it, I'm going back to the Marvel forums!

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

you know what? no matter how many times i start to understand earth 1 this and earth 2 that...something makes me forget how it all works. im new at this btw and i...im so lost i think ima cry.

[Johnny DC]

Okay...So the only issue at hand, involving Powergirl, is that somehow her origin was screwed?

[Mr. McCarthy]

The Earth 2 Superman is the Older Superman?

[Bat-Mantis]

Okay...So the only issue at hand, involving Powergirl, is that somehow her origin was screwed?No, because Power Girl has had a screwy origin for a long-ass time. She'd never had a concrete, coherent origin since the Crisis because writers couldn't let her be Kryptonain anymore since Superman is the LAST Kryptonian, so they'd try to make her Atlantean. But another writer would come along and say, "hey, that's a terrible idea" and they'd play off the Atlantean angle as a lie or a trick and Power Girl would be origin-less once more. Then one writer would say, "well, I liked it when Power Girl was from Krypton. So I'll make Kryptonite hurt her." Then in some issue, she'd grow ill around K like Superman would. But another writer would say they didn't like that, then she'd be seen tossing K around like it's nothing. Basically DC had no origin good enough to stick, so her origins became jumbled, fuzzy and incoherent... sort of like Donna Troy. Now they've decided to give her a concrete, true, one size fits all origin and I think it works. This was talked about a lot in JSA: Classified, where she was trying her hardest to find out what she was and where she came from. It was finally revealed that she was Power Girl from Earth 2, Superman's cousin from Krypton in that universe, that was thought to have been wiped out or re-written in the Crisis like everyone else in her universe (except for Superman and Lois, who were in a pocket dimension). Somehow she wasn't unmade or rewritten and the how's and why's will probably become clear as the new Crisis unfolds.The Earth 2 Superman is the Older Superman?Earth 2 Superman is the old Action Comics #1 Superman so yeah, he's the old one.

[Lackey]

the current Superman is not Earth 1 Superman...it's a totally new Superman

[BrianWilly]

I don't mind Powergirl being Kara of Earth-2 at all; in fact, I almost prefer it. Sometimes the simplest solution is really the best one. Instead of coming up with an all-new, even more complicated or convoluted origin, just go with what worked originally. Phil Jimenez really said it best when he said it was better to address these convolutions head-on instead of adding to it, even though he was referring to Donna Troy..."It doesn’t make sense, so why not make that a part of the story, rather than something we try to fix 'outside' of the story itself and then apply to the character."

[Ultimate_Superman]

I don't know, I like the way the JSA is now. Legion too although I would really like to see them get ahold of Superboy Prime by the end of IC.I would love that too I miss Superboy and the legion of super heroes. God knows putting him in the book would make the sales jump back up again. I just wish they didn't mind wipe him into leaving the group, but like Batman he found out the truth as well.

[Anubis]

you know what? no matter how many times i start to understand earth 1 this and earth 2 that...something makes me forget how it all works. im new at this btw and i...im so lost i think ima cry.

Powergirls Origin is quite easy compared to Donna Troy, now that origin has got to be one of the most f**ked up. Even after reading The Return of Donna Troy twice I'm still pretty confused.

[hippie_hunter]

Very. They should bring it back, keep the current Earth and cut the two off from each other and never have them interact-and keep that rule for once. Then everyone would get what they'd want and series that really need their Multiverse ties like JSA and Legion could be whole again.

Actually the Multiverse returned quite a while ago just far from the way it used to be in Pre-Crisis days

[Kurosawa]

Well, I mean the Pre-Crisis Multiverse, or at least Earths Two and S.

[Doc Destruction]

Actually the Multiverse returned quite a while ago just far from the way it used to be in Pre-Crisis days

Yeah Grant Morrison used the Crime Syndicate to GREAT effect in that hardcover story...which was BRUTALLY amazing. The second that came out I smiled and said "well, so much for the Crisis!"

[Varient]

Yeah Grant Morrison used the Crime Syndicate to GREAT effect in that hardcover story...which was BRUTALLY amazing. The second that came out I smiled and said "well, so much for the Crisis!"
Makes you wonder if "hypertime" Superman will ever show up again.

[Mr. McCarthy]

the current Superman is not Earth 1 Superman...it's a totally new Superman

I thought he was the Earth 1 Superman wit a totally new origin.

[Anubis]

Well, technically he's the post crisis Earth 2 Superman. The Post Crisis Earth 1 Superman is the Crime Syndicates Ultraman. Remember, scince That earths lex was the one that broke the barrier between worlds, he named his earth Earth 1 and the regular Earth, Earth 2.

[Charlesx]

For anyone still confused, here is a link to an article by Scott Tipton of Movie Poopshoot. He does an excellent job of explaining the multiple Supermen, etc:

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/138.html

On a personal note, I am glad that Power Girl is back to being who she was in the first place: Superman's cousin. I don't care too much for Kara Zor-el. Her presence negates the sacrifice of the original Supergirl during COIE, one of the best stories of its time.

[Varient]

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[04nbod]

this whole thing is too confusing.

[Doc Destruction]

Varient, you get hit with a forum posting virus or something? You're kind of talking like the Borg right now.

[Anubis]

this whole thing is too confusing.

No it's not.

[Kitsune]

I don't mind Powergirl being Kara of Earth-2 at all; in fact, I almost prefer it. Sometimes the simplest solution is really the best one. Instead of coming up with an all-new, even more complicated or convoluted origin, just go with what worked originally. Phil Jimenez really said it best when he said it was better to address these convolutions head-on instead of adding to it, even though he was referring to Donna Troy..."It doesn’t make sense, so why not make that a part of the story, rather than something we try to fix 'outside' of the story itself and then apply to the character."
Donna was a continuity error to begin with. Orignally "Wonder Girl" was supposed to be Dianna as a girl, which in and of itself was a continutiy error, because Diana's mother didn't want her to become Wonder Woman and thus wouldn't have let her have adventures as Wonder Girl... and don't even get me started on Wonder Tot. Anyway, when someone had a the bright idea to create a team based on the heros side kicks, confusion about Wonder Girl was created as independant character instead. It would be like having the silver age Superboy join the Titans as Superman's Sidekick.