The Sarah Connor Chronicles

[ssj wolverine]

The show is ok. They cast the wrong person to play the Terminator to protect Conner. She isn't impressing me. Kristana Loken or whatever her name is in Terminator 3 or someone of that body type would have fit this role perfectly.

[Moviefan2k4]

A character like the T-X would be too artificial for Cameron's role in the series. What makes her both unique and interesting is that she's not just another mindless killing machine (pardon the pun). She's a completely different model; even the Terminator in last night's episode didn't recognize her as created by Skynet (his readout display said, "unknown cyborg"). She can handle food, she can approximate human emotion much better than earlier models, and she's at least as strong as any 800-series model, maybe even more so.

I even read something yesterday, where a fan theorized that Cameron may not have been Skynet's creation at all...but rather, a cyborg created by the Human Resistance through reverse engineering of Terminator technology. That'd definitely be an interesting plot point, to say the least.

[DocHoliday]

I wonder who the dude from 90201 is gonna play.

[Superfreak]

Reese was supposed to be between 28 and 30 years old in "The Terminator", and since Judgment Day took place in 1997 at that point, then he was likely born around the turn of the 21st century (having arrived as an adult from 2029).

Since the timeline has been altered, Judgment Day now occurs in 2011, and Cameron was sent from 2027. That being said, there's still nothing to suggest a change in Reese's age (just his upbringing). Thus, he's probably around 7 or 8 years old in 2007, so Sarah interacting with him would be a small possibility.

and where do you find his age in the terminator. Sarah asks him under the bridge, and he tells her he grew up after (as stated). In reference to the question posed to him, it pretty much meant he was born after the war, and lived in the camps

[Superfreak]

A character like the T-X would be too artificial for Cameron's role in the series. What makes her both unique and interesting is that she's not just another mindless killing machine (pardon the pun). She's a completely different model; even the Terminator in last night's episode didn't recognize her as created by Skynet (his readout display said, "unknown cyborg"). She can handle food, she can approximate human emotion much better than earlier models, and she's at least as strong as any 800-series model, maybe even more so.

I even read something yesterday, where a fan theorized that Cameron may not have been Skynet's creation at all...but rather, a cyborg created by the Human Resistance through reverse engineering of Terminator technology. That'd definitely be an interesting plot point, to say the least.

I mentioned that earlier, what if Cameron is a terminator from a further future. From a time after Humanity has rid the world of Skynet and has sent advanced robots back in time, to correct the paradoxs created by the unknown number of temporal incursions

[Golgo-13]

I could have sworn in ep one that Cameron said that, she was the one who opened up the Bank account in 1963. Could she have been sent back to the sixties and has remained somewhere, until young John needed her protection, now in the present...?

[Moviefan2k4]

and where do you find his age in the terminator. Sarah asks him under the bridge, and he tells her he grew up after (as stated). In reference to the question posed to him, it pretty much meant he was born after the war, and lived in the campsIf memory serves, Kyle Reese's age is mentioned near the beginning of James Cameron's original script. It may also be among the bonus material on the Collector's Edition DVD, which was released by MGM a few years ago..

EDIT: I just checked an online version of the first film's script (fifth rewrite), where Reese is said to be 26 years old. Judging by the timeline, this means he was born around 2003, and would be about 4 by the present-day of 2007, where "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" takes place.

[Moviefan2k4]

I could have sworn in ep one that Cameron said that, she was the one who opened up the Bank account in 1963. Could she have been sent back to the sixties and has remained somewhere, until young John needed her protection, now in the present...?It's possible. Notice that in the pilot, Sarah asks her, "How long have you been looking for us?", rather than "How long have you been here?"

[Golgo-13]

I hope they air the pilot again as an encore someday. There's so many if's and buts about this show...:up:

I also love how the terminator send to take out the four freedom fighters looks like Ray Steverson 'Pullo' from Hbo's 'Rome'!

[DocHoliday]

I hope they air the pilot again as an encore someday. There's so many if's and buts about this show...:up:

I also love how the terminator send to take out the four freedom fighters looks like Ray Steverson 'Pullo' from Hbo's 'Rome'!

Ha! You are right! Ray Steverson would have made a pretty creepy terminator as well.

[KenK]

If memory serves, Kyle Reese's age is mentioned near the beginning of James Cameron's original script. It may also be among the bonus material on the Collector's Edition DVD, which was released by MGM a few years ago..

EDIT: I just checked an online version of the first film's script (fifth rewrite), where Reese is said to be 26 years old. Judging by the timeline, this means he was born around 2003, and would be about 4 by the present-day of 2007, where "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" takes place.

So here's the question; under what circumstance was Kyle Reese born? Couldn't the delay of Judgment Day drastically change the fates of his parents, so to the point that they may have never even met to conceive him in the first place?

[Moviefan2k4]

Yet another prime exampe of a predestination paradox. Basically, in order for John Connor to exist, Kyle Reese must also exist. Therefore, his parents must meet to concieve him. At this point, I think the writers have either deliberately avoided this, or simply haven't arrived at an explanation for it yet.

[Ion Kenshin]

So here's the question; under what circumstance was Kyle Reese born? Couldn't the delay of Judgment Day drastically change the fates of his parents, so to the point that they may have never even met to conceive him in the first place?
who can say...when it comes to time travel one never know how drastic the ripple effects will actually be

[DocHoliday]

I am still hlding out hope that T-1000 shows up!

[Dr.Doom]

It's possible. Notice that in the pilot, Sarah asks her, "How long have you been looking for us?", rather than "How long have you been here?"
It's npot possible, she said she opened the account in 1963 because that is when they sent the engineer back to make the bank

[Spade]

I am still hlding out hope that T-1000 shows up!

I think that they're holding back on that due to budget restraints, but it'd be awesome to see it return for a few episodes.

[Moviefan2k4]

It's not possible, she said she opened the account in 1963 because that is when they sent the engineer back to make the bankYes, but just because Cameron was sent to 1963, it doesn't mean she stayed (after all, she did have a way back to the future, through the portal at the bank). This is pure speculation, but she could have been sent a second time to 1999, in order to find and protect John. After all, time travel is usually instantaneous for the traveller, so she could be in 1963 one moment, and in 1999 the next.

[DocHoliday]

Yes, but just because Cameron was sent to 1963, it doesn't mean she stayed (after all, she did have a way back to the future, through the portal at the bank). This is pure speculation, but she could have been sent a second time to 1999, in order to find and protect John. After all, time travel is usually instantaneous for the traveller, so she could be in 1963 one moment, and in 1999 the next.


They should do an origin episode for her somewhere down the line.

[KALEL114]

I am still hlding out hope that T-1000 shows up!
Maybe we have already seen one. I submit my wild prediction that Charley Dixon's wife is a T-1000. I have no hard evidence just a gut feeling.

[DocHoliday]

That'd be interesting actually.

[KALEL114]

Yes, but just because Cameron was sent to 1963, it doesn't mean she stayed (after all, she did have a way back to the future, through the portal at the bank). This is pure speculation, but she could have been sent a second time to 1999, in order to find and protect John. After all, time travel is usually instantaneous for the traveller, so she could be in 1963 one moment, and in 1999 the next.
Cameron did not go back to 1963. One of thier "top scientists" did. The portal obliterated the bank when it was used by Sarah and crew. It was a one shot deal and the scientist would most likely not be able to use it to get back without doing the same thing.

[8blades]

Ha! I saw one scene with that Cameron talking....shame. She has no presence and is just like some girl. Terminator has now gone from a a heavy duty franchise to a teenage fest.

[KALEL114]

Ha! I saw one scene with that Cameron talking....shame. She has no presence and is just like some girl. Terminator has now gone from a a heavy duty franchise to a teenage fest.
Don't watch it then.

[Spider-Fan83]

think a cool episode or few episodes would be John, Sarah and Cameron working to save a baby/toddler Kyle Reese from a Terminator? After all, not future Kyle Reese, no John Connor and Skynet wins the war.
see, IDK, I don't think Reese being his father is a factor
I mean, it would change what he looks like, maybe, and stuff stuff like that
but, who his father was didn't matter, no matter who his father was he would of been raised and trained by his mother, to be the lead he becomes
if you think about, John had to of original had a different father, before he sent Reese, he wouldn't of existed

[KALEL114]

It doesn't work that way. It's basiclly a loop. If Reese dies before getting Sarah pregnant, then the loop is broken. John would be wiped from existance and who knows what will happen after that. In other words. If your father was killed before you were concieved, would you exist? That's how this franchise started if you think about it. How do undoubtedly stop John Connor? Kill his mother before he is concieved.

[mr. peasant]

Regarding the paradox issue, it can always be explained that changes in the past does not have any effect on the original future timeline but instead creates a new, separate timeline. Basically, John Connor of Future 2 would not have to send back a cyborg to protect his past self because the John Connor of Future 1 already did and doing so would instead cause 2 cyborgs, from two different futures to appear at that point which would then create Future 3.

[KALEL114]

Check this out.
http://www.terminatorfiles.com/saga_timeline.htm

[JustABill]

Heh. I wonder if the Governator has seen this show yet.

[TheCorpulent1]

This paradox thing is blowing my mind. I like it, though. It's a nice way to incorporate pretty much all of the continuity from every movie. It was nice to see John actually do something on his own in yesterday's episode, too. He was being kind of a pussy for a kid who was a serious hellraiser in T2.

[Superfreak]

ok rewatched, and ready to go.

terminator 3 has been effectively erased by the paradox created in the show. The John Connor of terminator 3 was unprepared for the future war.

The current mission is therefore to remove Sarah Connor from the timeline before her death of cancer, and reinsert her and John in 2007, so that she can prepare john for what is to come. The T3 Connor may have lost Sarah Connor too early, hence why he was such a nancy boy, and the movie was 'worse'.

why 2007? Because in T3, we discovered that judgement day is inevitable, and that the destruction of cyberdyne had only delayed the inevitable war. The war is inevitable because John is both the product, aswell as the cause of the war.

that's my take so far. Really, it all depends on who, and what cameron is. The more I think about it, the more I think that Cameron might actually be Skynet, embodied, and pacified.

as far as timelines go, this is what I think:

timeline 0, the un disturbed timeline, no time travel, john connor is a normal person, with a normal father

timeline 1, distorted by the events in terminator, john connor is the product of sarah and kyle, surviving terminator bits lead to the creation of skynet

timeline 2, events of terminator 2 distort the timeline again. Cyberdyne and Myles Dyson destroyed. Judgement Day delayed.

timeline 3, events of terminator 3, Sarah Conner dies of cancer in between somewhere, Judgement Day occurs in the early 2000s, it is inevitable.

timeline 2.5, event of the story of the show so far. Occur before timeline 3 begins, effectively erasing T3 (that doesn't mean the events of T3 don't occur, such is the complexity of time travel).



that's what I get from what I've watched

[Eddie Brock]

I can't find full episodes online. It makes me sad/angry. :csad::cmad:

[Saved]

http://www.fox.com/video/index.htm?cat_id=sarahconnor

Here, EBJ.

[javi1024]

ok rewatched, and ready to go.

terminator 3 has been effectively erased by the paradox created in the show. The John Connor of terminator 3 was unprepared for the future war.

The current mission is therefore to remove Sarah Connor from the timeline before her death of cancer, and reinsert her and John in 2007, so that she can prepare john for what is to come. The T3 Connor may have lost Sarah Connor too early, hence why he was such a nancy boy, and the movie was 'worse'.

why 2007? Because in T3, we discovered that judgement day is inevitable, and that the destruction of cyberdyne had only delayed the inevitable war. The war is inevitable because John is both the product, aswell as the cause of the war.

that's my take so far. Really, it all depends on who, and what cameron is. The more I think about it, the more I think that Cameron might actually be Skynet, embodied, and pacified.

as far as timelines go, this is what I think:

timeline 0, the un disturbed timeline, no time travel, john connor is a normal person, with a normal father

timeline 1, distorted by the events in terminator, john connor is the product of sarah and kyle, surviving terminator bits lead to the creation of skynet

timeline 2, events of terminator 2 distort the timeline again. Cyberdyne and Myles Dyson destroyed. Judgement Day delayed.

timeline 3, events of terminator 3, Sarah Conner dies of cancer in between somewhere, Judgement Day occurs in the early 2000s, it is inevitable.

timeline 2.5, event of the story of the show so far. Occur before timeline 3 begins, effectively erasing T3 (that doesn't mean the events of T3 don't occur, such is the complexity of time travel).



that's what I get from what I've watched
well apparently the producers of the show are saying T3 is just a separate possibility of events happening after T2. so basically "No, don't think about T3 cuz our show is how it really happens". otherwise them jumping into 2007 would have brought them 3 years after Judgement Day and everything would look alot less pretty.

[Warhammer]

I love this debate. I've had this debate about a thousand times on this board since I joined. This is how I view it:

- The Terminator set in place that there is an endless loop. Kyle Reese (who ends up being John Connor's father) and the T-800 (Model 101) arrive from sometime in 2029 to May 12th, 1984. The endless loop is evidenced by Kyle Reese being John Connor's father and the picture of Sarah Connor that was given to him by John Connor. It is established that the war is going to happen exactly how Kyle Reese told Sarah Connor, and how Sarah Connor was predestined to shape John Connor into the mankind's last hope and form The Resistance. Judgment Day and the future is inevitable.

- Then Terminator 2: Judgment Day comes around. During the events of T2, we find out that the film takes place sometime in 1994, and we discover that Judgment Day happens on August 29th, 1997. The second T-800 (Model 101), Sarah Connor, John Connor, and Miles Dyson prevent Judgment Day by destroying Cyberdyne, effectively wiping out all memory and plans on the reverse engineering of the T-800 (Model 101) arm and damaged chip from the first film. With all of that gone, along with the destruction of the second T-800 (Model 101) and the T-1000, Skynet is erased from history. Because it is, no threat will ever come from the future. Sarah Connor, with the help of a Terminator, saved the world from Judgment Day. The Connors, along with the rest of humanity live in peace. Wait, how could this be? Kyle Reese being John Connor's father in The Terminator establishes that the story was an endless loop. How can Skynet be erased from memory? The only logical solution to this would be that the franchise is not an endless loop, and that there are alternate timelines.

- Then comes Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, which while being a good film, cluttered thing up even more with horrible writing and just plain sloppy plotholes. It takes place in 2004. We know that Sarah Connor dies from leukemia while living off the grid with John Connor. Judgment Day was prevented. Then all of a sudden, a T-X comes from the future to kill John Connor, and all of his lieutenants. A T-850 (Model 101) is sent back to protect John Connor. How can this be? How do they exist, when Judgment Day was prevented and Skynet was erased? The T-X was sent back to wipe out Connor's lieutenants, so we assume that they were a threat to Skynet in the timeline where it came from. That means that killing just one of the lieutenants wipes them out of history, and alters the future (SLOPPY plothole). Back on topic, we are also aware that Skynet is re-established as a computer network by the United States Air Force to create new vehicles, make strategies, and prevent virus threats. Wait, from what Kyle Reese and the second T-800 (Model 101) describe, in their future, Skynet was artificial intelligence designed by Cyberdyne and was brought online to have control over the United States' nuclear weapons for defense purposes. The franchise is supposed to be an endless loop, yet we have two completely different Skynets (SLOPPY plothole)? At the end of the movie, we see that Skynet is activated, becomes self-aware and launches nuclear weapons on the same day of July 24, 2004. Judgment Day was only postponed, not prevented. The future was inevitable, and makes some to believe that finally established the franchise as an endless loop. The sad thing is it doesn't. The plot is so torn up, an endless loop can not and does not make logical sense. The only logical conclusion to T3 is that it is an alternate/tangent timeline branched off of the events of T2.

- The upcoming film Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins and it's two expected sequels also take place in the same alternate/tangent timeline as T3.

- The Sarah Connor Chronicles also takes place in an alternate/tangent timeline. It clearly takes after the events of T2, and was stated by the producers to not take place in the same timeline of T3.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, The Terminator franchise is James Cameron's creation. Because he did not have the sole rights, we ended up getting T3 and The Sarah Connor Chronicles without his authorization. The Terminator franchise is NOT an endless loop. It is impossible to be one, since each movie contradict each other. The Terminator originally had it set out to be an endless loop, but T2 made Judgment Day preventable, which contradicts the first film and makes the idea of alternate timelines the most logical conclusion. Then T3 came and made things worse. In the end, James Cameron's Terminator franchise is FLAWED.

This is how I believe the Terminator timeline goes. That's just me...

:up:

[TheCorpulent1]

Check this out.
http://www.terminatorfiles.com/saga_timeline.htm
That makes my brain hurt. :(

[Warhammer]

Check this out.
http://www.terminatorfiles.com/saga_timeline.htm

Eww. That adds expanded universe beyond the films. It's too much information, and it is too hard to understand. I only care about the films and the TV show.

:csad:

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, adding the comics in seems to clutter it up way too much. Like a dozen Terminators have been sent back if you factor the comics in. I'm actually a bit disappointed that the show is featuring so many future people, too. It was impressive when one or two Terminators were sent back. But if they can send dozens of Terminators into the past to various times just to monitor ****, and the humans can send dozens of their resistance fighters back, doesn't that basically just create the same goddamn war without even needing Skynet or the nuclear holocaust? The war with the machines has just switched from hot in the future to cold in the present and past, if I understand the show correctly. :confused:

[Lord Blackbolt]

I say go with the flow and enjoy the show.

[KALEL114]

I love this debate. I've had this debate about a thousand times on this board since I joined. This is how I view it:

- The Terminator set in place that there is an endless loop. Kyle Reese (who ends up being John Connor's father) and the T-800 (Model 101) arrive from sometime in 2029 to May 12th, 1984. The endless loop is evidenced by Kyle Reese being John Connor's father and the picture of Sarah Connor that was given to him by John Connor. It is established that the war is going to happen exactly how Kyle Reese told Sarah Connor, and how Sarah Connor was predestined to shape John Connor into the mankind's last hope and form The Resistance. Judgment Day and the future is inevitable.

- Then Terminator 2: Judgment Day comes around. During the events of T2, we find out that the film takes place sometime in 1994, and we discover that Judgment Day happens on August 29th, 1997. The second T-800 (Model 101), Sarah Connor, John Connor, and Miles Dyson prevent Judgment Day by destroying Cyberdyne, effectively wiping out all memory and plans on the reverse engineering of the T-800 (Model 101) arm and damaged chip from the first film. With all of that gone, along with the destruction of the second T-800 (Model 101) and the T-1000, Skynet is erased from history. Because it is, no threat will ever come from the future. Sarah Connor, with the help of a Terminator, saved the world from Judgment Day. The Connors, along with the rest of humanity live in peace. Wait, how could this be? Kyle Reese being John Connor's father in The Terminator establishes that the story was an endless loop. How can Skynet be erased from memory? The only logical solution to this would be that the franchise is not an endless loop, and that there are alternate timelines.

- Then comes Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, which while being a good film, cluttered thing up even more with horrible writing and just plain sloppy plotholes. It takes place in 2004. We know that Sarah Connor dies from leukemia while living off the grid with John Connor. Judgment Day was prevented. Then all of a sudden, a T-X comes from the future to kill John Connor, and all of his lieutenants. A T-850 (Model 101) is sent back to protect John Connor. How can this be? How do they exist, when Judgment Day was prevented and Skynet was erased? The T-X was sent back to wipe out Connor's lieutenants, so we assume that they were a threat to Skynet in the timeline where it came from. That means that killing just one of the lieutenants wipes them out of history, and alters the future (SLOPPY plothole). Back on topic, we are also aware that Skynet is re-established as a computer network by the United States Air Force to create new vehicles, make strategies, and prevent virus threats. Wait, from what Kyle Reese and the second T-800 (Model 101) describe, in their future, Skynet was artificial intelligence designed by Cyberdyne and was brought online to have control over the United States' nuclear weapons for defense purposes. The franchise is supposed to be an endless loop, yet we have two completely different Skynets (SLOPPY plothole)? At the end of the movie, we see that Skynet is activated, becomes self-aware and launches nuclear weapons on the same day of July 24, 2004. Judgment Day was only postponed, not prevented. The future was inevitable, and makes some to believe that finally established the franchise as an endless loop. The sad thing is it doesn't. The plot is so torn up, an endless loop can not and does not make logical sense. The only logical conclusion to T3 is that it is an alternate/tangent timeline branched off of the events of T2.

- The upcoming film Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins and it's two expected sequels also take place in the same alternate/tangent timeline as T3.

- The Sarah Connor Chronicles also takes place in an alternate/tangent timeline. It clearly takes after the events of T2, and was stated by the producers to not take place in the same timeline of T3.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, The Terminator franchise is James Cameron's creation. Because he did not have the sole rights, we ended up getting T3 and The Sarah Connor Chronicles without his authorization. The Terminator franchise is NOT an endless loop. It is impossible to be one, since each movie contradict each other. The Terminator originally had it set out to be an endless loop, but T2 made Judgment Day preventable, which contradicts the first film and makes the idea of alternate timelines the most logical conclusion. Then T3 came and made things worse. In the end, James Cameron's Terminator franchise is FLAWED.

This is how I believe the Terminator timeline goes. That's just me...

:up:

With T1, T2, and SCC there is still a loop.
Some how they didn't stop judgement day at the end of T2, only delayed it. The show is about them trying to find out how and why. With T1, T2, and SCC there is still a loop.

Great work though. It makes perfect sense with the three movies.

[Warhammer]

With T1, T2, and SCC there is still a loop.
Some how they didn't stop judgement day at the end of T2, only delayed it. The show is about them trying to find out how and why. With T1, T2, and SCC there is still a loop.

Actually, the loop between T1, T2, and TSCC is contradicted. Kyle Reese came from a future where Judgment Day occurred in 1997. If that particular Judgment Day is prevented, then Kyle Reese is wiped from existance, no?

[Gonzo]

Saw the first 2 episodes last night, and they actually weren't that bad. A question though, are they ignoring the T3 timline and how many episodes did they get done before the strike? I think I read that they finished nine, but I could be wrong. Oh and this is my first post here on the boards, though been a lurker for a long time

[KALEL114]

It would alter when he was sent back, not he himself. He will still be born and should be a new born or about 4 years old (depending on which source the producers want to go with) in the timeline of the show.

[Golgo-13]

It's npot possible, she said she opened the account in 1963 because that is when they sent the engineer back to make the bank



Cameron said 'she opened the account in 1963'. 1963 signifies the year the bank was opened, not the year the Engineer arrived back. The Engineer would have to had to have been sent back years before 1963, for him to be-able to construct the time machine and weapon, using older components...... If someone else had opened the account then she would have worded it like "an account was opened".

I still think she was sent back to 1963. She could have been sent back to set up the account. Then remained somewhere secret, de-activated until she self-activated herself in the present, due to her program orders.

[Spider-Fan83]

you know who should totally make a cameo in this show, Danny Cooksey
(John's mullet wear, red headed friend,Tim, from T2) LOL
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5103/t2mq052fg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7977/dc888uv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
with the new timeline, he would be about the same age as his character

Just have him, bump in to John somewhere, and recognizes him, have him be all like
"John, dude, is that you, I haven’t seen you in like 20 years, I heard you were die or something, wow, look at you man, you haven’t change bit..."
then Cameron shots him
cause, he knows who they really was

[Golgo-13]

I agree with what has been said about Skynet's take over, and Judgement day- IT CAN'T BE PREVENTED no matter what they do!

As smart as Sarah Conners is, you'd think that she would have figured this out by now. If Skynet doesn't destroy mankind, then Reese would never have been sent back, thus John would never have been born. If at the end of T2 they had wiped out any chances of machines rising, as they thought they had, then the timeline would have reverted back to when Sarah Conners was working as waitress and living with her horny roommate. The buff Sarah of T2 would have never have came to be....

[zanos]

the future can be changed... but the war is inevitable (it has to happen, in order for Kyle Reese to travel back in time, and sleep with Sarah, again, John's existance is both a result, and cause of the war).

now did they clean up some of the timeline issues from the T2 - T3 in between time. From what I can understand, we are now in another paradox(that started somewhere in between T2 and T3), where someone has sent Cameron back in order to stop Sarah from dying of Cancer (as she died of Cancer in T3).


I think if the writting can integrate all the story lines in the movies, as well as create a whole new story, and maintain narrative quality,,, this show will go on for a good while.



but after last night... I'm already getting a little tired of Sarah/Lena monologuing. It's good for an opening and close to an episode... but I felt that there was too much last night

Astute observation.

[Lord Blackbolt]

So will they have sarah die of Cancer in the last episode...that would be sad.

[Mike_D202]

http://www.fox.com/video/index.htm?cat_id=sarahconnor

Here, EBJ.

All I see are clips. No episodes.

[mr. peasant]

I agree with what has been said about Skynet's take over, and Judgement day- IT CAN'T BE PREVENTED no matter what they do!

As smart as Sarah Conners is, you'd think that she would have figured this out by now. If Skynet doesn't destroy mankind, then Reese would never have been sent back, thus John would never have been born. If at the end of T2 they had wiped out any chances of machines rising, as they thought they had, then the timeline would have reverted back to when Sarah Conners was working as waitress and living with her horny roommate. The buff Sarah of T2 would have never have came to be....

It depends on what rules govern time traveling. Another theory is that regardless of the changes that happen, it would not affect the 'history' of the original timeline and it is this version's Reese that travels back in time and sets in motion the new timeline. The Reese in this new timeline doesn't have to since it is already completed by the original timeline's Reese.

[Saved]

All I see are clips. No episodes.
Look around somemore. If they aren't there, than I guess they aren't up on the site yet.

[TheCorpulent1]

I say go with the flow and enjoy the show.
That's what I'm trying to do. Continuity in the Terminator franchise is too full of holes.

[KALEL114]

Look around somemore. If they aren't there, than I guess they aren't up on the site yet.
http://www.fox.com/fod/

[Golgo-13]

So will they have sarah die of Cancer in the last episode...that would be sad.

I think that originally, she does die, probably due to the fact that she didn't know that she had it, until it was too late. Now that Cameron has given her the heads up, she might have a chance at surviving it.

[Ion Kenshin]

That's what I'm trying to do. Continuity in the Terminator franchise is too full of holes.
As long as time travel is involved there will never be any form of fluid continuity...once you change the past or future there will always be that potential "alternate" timeline potentially happening

[javi1024]

I love this debate. I've had this debate about a thousand times on this board since I joined. This is how I view it:

- The Terminator set in place that there is an endless loop. Kyle Reese (who ends up being John Connor's father) and the T-800 (Model 101) arrive from sometime in 2029 to May 12th, 1984. The endless loop is evidenced by Kyle Reese being John Connor's father and the picture of Sarah Connor that was given to him by John Connor. It is established that the war is going to happen exactly how Kyle Reese told Sarah Connor, and how Sarah Connor was predestined to shape John Connor into the mankind's last hope and form The Resistance. Judgment Day and the future is inevitable.

- Then Terminator 2: Judgment Day comes around. During the events of T2, we find out that the film takes place sometime in 1994, and we discover that Judgment Day happens on August 29th, 1997. The second T-800 (Model 101), Sarah Connor, John Connor, and Miles Dyson prevent Judgment Day by destroying Cyberdyne, effectively wiping out all memory and plans on the reverse engineering of the T-800 (Model 101) arm and damaged chip from the first film. With all of that gone, along with the destruction of the second T-800 (Model 101) and the T-1000, Skynet is erased from history. Because it is, no threat will ever come from the future. Sarah Connor, with the help of a Terminator, saved the world from Judgment Day. The Connors, along with the rest of humanity live in peace. Wait, how could this be? Kyle Reese being John Connor's father in The Terminator establishes that the story was an endless loop. How can Skynet be erased from memory? The only logical solution to this would be that the franchise is not an endless loop, and that there are alternate timelines.

- Then comes Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, which while being a good film, cluttered thing up even more with horrible writing and just plain sloppy plotholes. It takes place in 2004. We know that Sarah Connor dies from leukemia while living off the grid with John Connor. Judgment Day was prevented. Then all of a sudden, a T-X comes from the future to kill John Connor, and all of his lieutenants. A T-850 (Model 101) is sent back to protect John Connor. How can this be? How do they exist, when Judgment Day was prevented and Skynet was erased? The T-X was sent back to wipe out Connor's lieutenants, so we assume that they were a threat to Skynet in the timeline where it came from. That means that killing just one of the lieutenants wipes them out of history, and alters the future (SLOPPY plothole). Back on topic, we are also aware that Skynet is re-established as a computer network by the United States Air Force to create new vehicles, make strategies, and prevent virus threats. Wait, from what Kyle Reese and the second T-800 (Model 101) describe, in their future, Skynet was artificial intelligence designed by Cyberdyne and was brought online to have control over the United States' nuclear weapons for defense purposes. The franchise is supposed to be an endless loop, yet we have two completely different Skynets (SLOPPY plothole)? At the end of the movie, we see that Skynet is activated, becomes self-aware and launches nuclear weapons on the same day of July 24, 2004. Judgment Day was only postponed, not prevented. The future was inevitable, and makes some to believe that finally established the franchise as an endless loop. The sad thing is it doesn't. The plot is so torn up, an endless loop can not and does not make logical sense. The only logical conclusion to T3 is that it is an alternate/tangent timeline branched off of the events of T2.

- The upcoming film Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins and it's two expected sequels also take place in the same alternate/tangent timeline as T3.

- The Sarah Connor Chronicles also takes place in an alternate/tangent timeline. It clearly takes after the events of T2, and was stated by the producers to not take place in the same timeline of T3.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, The Terminator franchise is James Cameron's creation. Because he did not have the sole rights, we ended up getting T3 and The Sarah Connor Chronicles without his authorization. The Terminator franchise is NOT an endless loop. It is impossible to be one, since each movie contradict each other. The Terminator originally had it set out to be an endless loop, but T2 made Judgment Day preventable, which contradicts the first film and makes the idea of alternate timelines the most logical conclusion. Then T3 came and made things worse. In the end, James Cameron's Terminator franchise is FLAWED.

This is how I believe the Terminator timeline goes. That's just me...

:up:

god this why i hate time travel. nice work though.

[Ion Kenshin]

god this why i hate time travel. nice work though.
i agree...the way i always see time travel is that when people travel back in time to stop or make an event happen said event has happend .,..i think the time traveler believs that if they go back and change something it will affect their future. i think i time traveler believes that them going back in time is something new. I believe that when this person goes back in time they become a direct cause of the future they are trying to prevent meaning that IMO them going back in time has also already happened which causes the ripple effect of the timestream. Basically what i mean is if you travel back in time lets just say a few hours and you tell your self you are gonna get hit by a car and end up in the hospital for two days if you go outside today and you dont go out thus keeping you from getting hit by the car...it raises the question what if you did not go back in time and tell your self that would it still have happened....its kinda like in the matrix when the oracle tell neo dont worry about the lamp before he breaks it and he of course does...she says "now what will really blow your mind is whether or not you would have broken it if she did not say anything...(its sounds weird in type i know but in my head and spoken aloud it makes sense to me...apologies if i confused anyone.

[Lord Blackbolt]

In T3....the terminator said Johns kids will play an important part in the future too....No one has ever played that up?

I have a feeling after the new trilogy with the Future War...they'll do another trilogy about after the war with Connors kids. We find out that after skynet lost the war they kept trying to send back terminators to try to win the war....and still losing....I think there's a lot of life in this franchise.

[Ion Kenshin]

double post...my bad

[GhostPoet]

After watching the 2nd ep. I gotta say, fantastic show!

The acting and action are top notch and I really enjoy the characters.
I give it a 9/10. The only reason I'm not giving it a 10/10 is because i'm still unsure how they will create a compelling, on the edge of your seat story for more than one season. Can't just have Terminators hunting the kid every season. :)

[TheCorpulent1]

In T3....the terminator said Johns kids will play an important part in the future too....No one has ever played that up?

I have a feeling after the new trilogy with the Future War...they'll do another trilogy about after the war with Connors kids. We find out that after skynet lost the war they kept trying to send back terminators to try to win the war....and still losing....I think there's a lot of life in this franchise.
Well, in order to get to John's kids, they need to age John up and reintroduce Kate at some point. That could be cool in the show's third or fourth season, if it gets that far.

[GhostPoet]

btw, how's it doing so far in ratings? I hope it is or becomes a hit.

[TheCorpulent1]

I heard the first episode had really strong ratings, actually. Which is great because Fox would just pull the plug and not even show any future episodes if it got bad ratings. :o

[GhostPoet]

*cough* Drive *cough*

I hate you Fox.

[Golgo-13]

My biggest gripe with T3 was the implication that Clair Danes character was the one who was running the resistance in the future, as opposed to John. John in T3 came off as a real wimp. I hope in this new continuity, the whole 'wife' idea is scrapped.

[LostSon88]

Well in T3 it was suggested that John was running the show throughout the war...Kate was the one responsible getting him connections and resources to the US military.

It wasn't until John was killed by the T-850 in 2032 that Kate took over the resistance...

[Lord Blackbolt]

I'd love to see Sarah and young connor time travel to the future to fight along side Reese and old Conner....

[TheCorpulent1]

I shudder to think of the paradoxes that might result from that.
My biggest gripe with T3 was the implication that Clair Danes character was the one who was running the resistance in the future, as opposed to John. John in T3 came off as a real wimp. I hope in this new continuity, the whole 'wife' idea is scrapped.
Well in T3 it was suggested that John was running the show throughout the war...Kate was the one responsible getting him connections and resources to the US military.

It wasn't until John was killed by the T-850 in 2032 that Kate took over the resistance...
Yeah, John was implied to be firmly in command of everything until his death. Kate's military connections were supposed to come through her father, but he died right in T3, so who knows where that stands?

Either way, though, you have to admit: John was pretty wimpy in T3. I mean, Kate kicked his ass and locked him in a kennel, for crying out loud! :o

[LostSon88]

He was a wimp yes but in a way I thought it was appropriate...

They could've gone either two ways

1) Have John still prep for the war despite blowing up Cyberdyne and turn him into a bonefide killing machine ala his mother in T2.

http://popcultureheroines.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/sarah.jpg

OR

2) Have John portrayed as a just a regular schmoe living his life day to day ala his mother in T1.

http://www.dvdrama.com/imagescrit/dossblondes9.jpg

I think that's why I kind of don't mind him being somewhat of a wimp...like Sarah in T1, its a progression to the person he will eventually become.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but it seems he and Sarah have been living off the grid in SCC and she's continued teaching him. The kid learned how to fire rifles before he hit puberty. That ought to be reflected in his behavior, right? As it stands, between T3 and SCC, the more grown-up John has barely ever even defended himself. It's always a Terminator or Sarah saving his sorry ass. It's not so much that he's a wimp, it's that he's even wimpier than a lot of normal people would be at his age, even without having trained under his mother. At the very least, they could play up his hacker skills and show him doing something genuinely impressive with a computer, instead of bumbling around a tech shop and displaying his internet searches on a giant monitor. :o

[LostSon88]

I guess they're just taking a very slow character progression for the savior of mankind...lol.

Check this out...SCC has spiked terminator interest all over the net.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/86566/terminator-tv-judgment-day

Terminator TV: Judgment Day

Searches Spike for the Sarah Connor Chronicles

By Molly McCall
Mon, January 14, 2008, 6:29 pm PS
Sunday night, Fox aired the debut episode of "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator+sarah+connor+chronicles&cs=bz&fr=buzz)." By Monday morning, the show's message board was raking in the comments. In threads with titles like "This show doesn't make sense (http://sarahconnor.wetpaint.com/thread/1132204/This+show+doesn%27t+make+sense)" and "THIS IS A NO SHOW!!!!!!!! (http://sarahconnor.wetpaint.com/thread/1132372/THIS+IS+A+NO+SHOW%21%21%21%21%21%21%21%21)," many fans fumed about how the new series deviated from the original "T" storyline.
Judging by buzz, though, the sci-fi drama may actually be an unstoppable, musclebound "yes." After the show aired, searches for the cyborg series spiked nearly 400%, busting into our top movers. Lena Headey (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=lena+headey&cs=bz&fr=buzz), who plays Sarah Connor (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=sarah+connor&cs=bz&fr=buzz), more than doubled her buzz. Interest in fellow actors Thomas Dekker (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=thomas+dekker&cs=bz&fr=buzz) (+256%) and Summer Glau (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=summer+glau&cs=bz&fr=buzz) (+346%) soared. Glau's character, the re-programmed teen Terminator Cameron Phillips (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator+cameron+phillips&cs=bz&fr=buzz), also surged in Search.
Even if the series does eventually crumble in the face of some fans' resistance, it's already benefited the larger good of the franchise. Searches for "terminator (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator&cs=bz&fr=buzz)," "terminator 2 (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator+2&cs=bz&fr=buzz)," and "terminator 3 (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator+3&cs=bz&fr=buzz)" are all on the rise. Demand for "terminator 4 (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator+4&cs=bz&fr=buzz)" and its trailer (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=terminator+4+trailer&cs=bz&fr=buzz) has blasted upwards. For now, the world is looking safe for the ongoing saga of the Connor family.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

So far the first two episodes were alright but I don't see the series lasting more than it's obligatory 13 episodes when the show runs out of storylines, maybe it's final episode can be a lead into Terminator 4.

[The Lizard]

Was there any explanation for the time machine that was left back in 1999? I assumed there must have been some kind of self destruct to plug that giant plot hole.

OK, when I went back and watched the ep online, I saw that when John was looking up the online article about his "death" during the bank robbery in 1999, there was an explosion mentioned in the article. Presumably the time machine was set to self destruct after they went through and it took the whole bank vault with it in the explosion. So no more time machine.

However, how did the headless Terminator skeleton end up in a junkyard for 8 years? I doubt that the authorities, finding it in the rubble of the bank, would just consider it junk and cart it off to the dump with the rest of the debris. :huh:

[LostSon88]

What are the chances of more cameos from movie characters...I mean we did get Enrique in Episode 2...

I'd love to see Dr. Silberman or even a young Kyle Reese in future seasons...

[Spade]

However, how did the headless Terminator skeleton end up in a junkyard for 8 years? I doubt that the authorities, finding it in the rubble of the bank, would just consider it junk and cart it off to the dump with the rest of the debris. :huh:

Right after the recap of Sunday's episode for the second part on Monday, you can see a Terminator head flying through as the three make their jump into 2007. So I suppose it popped in as the Terminator was blown into pieces.

[LostSon88]

I think he's talking about the Endoskeleton that remerged from the junkyard when the head was reactivated...

I also found it a bit odd that they would just dump something like that...

[Spade]

That's true...unless there was more refuse than we saw, it's quite the coincidence.

[Moviefan2k4]

I think the idea was that Cromartie got sucked into the time portal with Cameron and the Connors, but unlike them, he didn't fare too well on the other side. He lost his head, and his body turned up in the junkyard. My main question was, "How did Cromartie know where to find his skull, if he couldn't see where he was going to begin with?!" My only theory (althought it's a big stretch) is that his head had some sort of homing device in it.

[LostSon88]

Actually the homing device theory was what I initially went with as well while watching the episode...

I don't think its much of a stretch at all.

[Ghostvirus]

My feelings on this show are the same as Smallville. About 4 seasons into Smalliville I stopped giving a sh** about supermans legacy, because it was pretty obvious the writers didn't care. & that is pretty much how I feel about this show.

However I find myself wondering what is the point to this show? We have already seen skynet activate itself, & we have already seen Connor turn into the man he was destined to become, so what is the point? After about a season of robots returning from the future, & trying to kill John it is going to get old real fast. I have a feeling all that I will see in this series. I have already seen in the movies.

[LostSon88]

However I find myself wondering what is the point to this show? We have already seen skynet activate itself, & we have already seen Connor turn into the man he was destined to become, so what is the point?

The point is to answer the how's and why's of everything you just mentioned.

HOW did John become the man he is destined to be?
HOW much of an impact did Sarah have on John?
HOW was Skynet re-activated despite the events of T2?

Yes we know and have seen everything that has happened...this is about filling in the details.

That's the point of the show.

[The Lizard]

I think the idea was that Cromartie got sucked into the time portal with Cameron and the Connors, but unlike them, he didn't fare too well on the other side. He lost his head, and his body turned up in the junkyard.

There was nothing that indicated that the "Cromartie" terminator's body went through the time portal. Only the head was shown bouncing through as John, Sarah and Cameron materialized in 2007.

PLUS - even the head by itself shouldn't have been able to go through, because the "rules" of time travel are that no exposed metal or unliving material can go through a time portal. That's why terminators have to be covered with real living skin and not synthetic skin. The skull should not have been transported through time at all!

[KALEL114]

The body was left in the wreckage of the bank after it was obliterated by the time jump and then taken to the dump with the rest of the bank. Don't know about the head surviving the through the time jump though.

[Spade]

This is turning into quite a plothole, unless it was a time machine that's far more advanced than what we've seen up until now due to the person who made it having time to improve upon the design.

[DACrowe]

The head going through was a plothole, but I really find that a minor quibble, since most forgot it until the line was brought up again from Reese. I'll point out that T2 is a complete contradiction of T1 and T3 contradicts T1 AND T2, and SCC contradicts T1 and especially T3. The franchise has terrible continuity (albeit I suppose since THUS FAR, SCC has been the most apt at following continuity as it has yet to contradict anything major in T2 yet). I'd say that the series is an improvement as it takes the mythos, the characters and the history seriously, even if it has made short cuts on the jump to the television medium. T3 treated the series as a joke, a punchline and a fad to market new SFX, products, sex and Arnold's bid for governor all wrapped in one mediocre package. Yeah the last scene was nice and bittersweet, kind of a Dr. Strangelove meets The Terminator moment, but the movie still sucked.

So, be thankful for the show. For example the TErminators are a real threat and not just something to laugh at for making '90s pop culture references like "talk to the hand" after going to a gay bar or changing their bust size to trick a cop instead of killing him. I mean at least the show uses a terminator in a female appearance that is actually a serious character who seems unintimidating at first, but is dangerous and is treated as more than a sex joke and John is a little more hands on than the impotent Connor in that movie.

I also think this show, if it gets off the terminator every week (I hope after next week, all the middle episodes until the last two or three are sci-fi free, save for Cameron. I understand Cromnite and other terminators being in the first three episodes to hook audiences in, but have something more than a terminator fight every week). I could see this going all the way to the end of the fourth season, whhich if you haven't noticed Fox has already pegged to be "judgement day" and for it to happen right and proper this time in 2011 would be mucho satisfying. Albeit, I imagine iff they "delay judgement day again" the show will get repetitive after that.

I'm just saying there are other avenues to take these characters on than terminators battling every week and while it works well for the first three episodes as a hook and for sweeps episodes in variation every season, comprising the rest of the show with other material would be smart and satisfying. And I think the show does have a pulse under all the sci-fi and inevitable plot holes time traveling causes. Like seeing Sarah going to the doctor while trying to secretly deal with cancer or her son arguing on the phone about finding turkey shows that this oculd be an interesting dysfunctional family drama under all the bells and whistles to keep it thriving.

Of course this is if Fox does not cancel it. But hey it had their highest ratings in like five years last night for a scripted show and while the audience did drop off about 8 million viewers on Monday it still kept ratings in the double digits and was Fox's highest rated scripted show in the nine o'clock slot in the last year. So, if the show can maintain those solid ratings or increase them there will def. be a second season, albeit with all the other shows back then it'll be interesting to see if it can keep its audience, though.

I have to say this is the first time I've actually been looking forward to the next episode of a network show (that wasn't Scrubs) since...well the first season of Lost and before that back to the early seasons of 24 and Firefly. So I hope it stays around.

[Moviefan2k4]

There was nothing that indicated that the "Cromartie" terminator's body went through the time portal. Only the head was shown bouncing through as John, Sarah and Cameron materialized in 2007.

PLUS - even the head by itself shouldn't have been able to go through, because the "rules" of time travel are that no exposed metal or unliving material can go through a time portal. That's why terminators have to be covered with real living skin and not synthetic skin. The skull should not have been transported through time at all!When have you ever seen an 800-series Terminator with synthetic skin? Reese stated in the original film that a Terminator's human appearance was made of "living tissue", when being interrogated by Silberman at the police station.

Models such as the T-1000 and the T-X don't follow this, since they use liquid-metal camouflage to form their outward appaerance.

[Timstuff]

I've only seen the first episode so far (downloaded it via torrent), but I loved it. When's the next episode going to air? I DON'T WANT TO MISS IT THIS TIME!!!

[DACrowe]

Episode 2 already aired, but you can find it at

www.fox.com

episode 3 (and the rest of the 12-13 episode season) airs every Monday at 9 pm. Watch! We can't give Fox a reason to do to this what it did to Firefly...and Arrested Development....and Futurama....and Drive...crap.

I mean it still pulled in good ratings Monday, but it was a significant drop, it doesn't need to go down anymore.

[BenReilly]

I'll point out that T2 is a complete contradiction of T1 and T3 contradicts T1 AND T2, and SCC contradicts T1 and especially T3.

What was the contradiction between the first two films?

episode 3 (and the rest of the 12-13 episode season) airs every Monday at 9 pm. Watch! We can't give Fox a reason to do to this what it did to Firefly...and Arrested Development....and Futurama....and Drive...crap.

Unfortunately, because of the strike, the first season will only consist of 9 episodes. They had the standard 13 episode commitment for the first season, but they weren't able to finish the last 4 episodes before the writers went on strike last year.

[zanos]

The body wouldn't not have been thrown out like it was garbage and the head definately should not have time traveled back. This is sloppy writing at it's best.

[Ghostvirus]

The point is to answer the how's and why's of everything you just mentioned.

HOW did John become the man he is destined to be?

They answered that in T3. He obviously doesn't become a leader until deep into the resistance.

HOW much of an impact did Sarah have on John?

Come on! They have shown her impact throughout T2, & T3. You really need to be shown more?

HOW was Skynet re-activated despite the events of T2?

I believe they answered this in T3 as well.

Yes we know and have seen everything that has happened...this is about filling in the details.

That's the point of the show.

For me personally the details are going to be boring, & have already been explained.

[Moviefan2k4]

You're forgetting that in the universe represented with "The Sarah Connor Chronicles", the events of "Terminator 3" do not exist. This is a completely different time line, with no set result other than john leading the Resistance. In this continuity (which excludes T3), it isn't yet known exactly how, when, or why John winds up leading an army during the future-war...simply that it happens at a distant point.

[Ghostvirus]

I love how continuity of story can be explained away by saying it isn't canon.:whatever:

[Ultimate_Superman]

My feelings on this show are the same as Smallville. About 4 seasons into Smalliville I stopped giving a sh** about supermans legacy, because it was pretty obvious the writers didn't care. & that is pretty much how I feel about this show.

However I find myself wondering what is the point to this show? We have already seen skynet activate itself, & we have already seen Connor turn into the man he was destined to become, so what is the point? After about a season of robots returning from the future, & trying to kill John it is going to get old real fast. I have a feeling all that I will see in this series. I have already seen in the movies.I agree with everything in bold here. What would have really made a great Terminator show is if they picked up right after T3.

[CFE]

The show was certainly more enjoyable than the first trailer would admit.

Headey impressed me the most; a solid follow-up from Hamilton, though I think she needs to toughen up a bit more if this is supposed to be the same Sarah post-T2.

Thomas Dekker also did a good job, and it's refreshing to watch a John Connor that isn't unlikeable (Stahl) and doesn't have a voice that cracks and squeeks at every turn (Furlong).

The only one I'm concerned with is Summer. I loved her in 'Firefly' but it goes without saying that this is bigger for her. After two episodes, I still don't quite believe her as a cyborg. It comes off more like "Jamie Summers-Lite" and we all know how the re-vamped "Bionic Woman" went.

The nods to T1 and T2 are what make the show for me; from giving John the alias "Reese" to bringing back the Dysons and Enrique.

With any luck, "TSCC" will avoid the fates of the "Blade" and "Robocop" series and succeed where other Film-to-TV ventures have failed.

As far as what this show has to offer, Ghostvirus...it IS in its early episodes. The show needs to get into its own groove and then it'll be picking up steam and taking the concepts of future events into different directions, I'm sure.

CFE

[Lord Blackbolt]

I actually didn't think T3 was as terrible as some of you guys say....sure it wasn't as good as the other 2...but it was enjoyable.... also ...if you check up on it....T3 had a 71 percent fresh rating from critics.... Means most critics liked the movie....I don't understand the universal hate it gets. There's like maybe two or three campy scenes in the movie. That didn't bother me much.

[CFE]

Actaully, Blackbolt, neither do I. T3 was fine; I tolerate it and appreciate some of the things it was trying to do.

CFE

[TheCorpulent1]

I didn't like Sarah's death. She's an integral character to the T3 mythos. Maybe I could've gotten over it if it seemed like even the tiniest shred of what she ostensibly taught John lived on in him, but John was a complete idiot in it. If T3 had finally had John step up and be the leader he's meant to be instead of the victim he's traditionally been, I might've enjoyed it more. And yes, we do see him embrace his leadership role, but it's right at the very end. Throughout the actual movie, he's his usual victim self. It's lame.

It did have some great action scenes and effects, though. I have to give it that much.

[Lord Blackbolt]

Well I do give you that on the John Connor stuff. But originally Sarah Connor was in the script. But Linda Hamilton was in the looney bin...seriously...

She was the one that sold the movie rights when she got it from the divorce from James Cameron.

They thought they couldn't replace someone like her in the movie...so they killed her off. Funny how things change....

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, if only they'd known of Lena Headey back then. :)

[Lord Blackbolt]

Yeah, but it seems he and Sarah have been living off the grid in SCC and she's continued teaching him. The kid learned how to fire rifles before he hit puberty. That ought to be reflected in his behavior, right? As it stands, between T3 and SCC, the more grown-up John has barely ever even defended himself. It's always a Terminator or Sarah saving his sorry ass. It's not so much that he's a wimp, it's that he's even wimpier than a lot of normal people would be at his age, even without having trained under his mother. At the very least, they could play up his hacker skills and show him doing something genuinely impressive with a computer, instead of bumbling around a tech shop and displaying his internet searches on a giant monitor. :o


Well in the TV series...Sarah has been alive longer...in T3...Sarah died in 1997....where as in the TV show Sarah is still alive in 1999 and will live on for 2 more years.

[TheCorpulent1]

Did she die in 1997 in T3? I thought it was more like 2000 or something.

[Lord Blackbolt]

Eh, if only they'd known of Lena Headey back then. :)

She'd be too young for the role back then anyhow...lol. I do have to say...I think Lena is way hotter as Sarah Connor.

[Lord Blackbolt]

Did she die in 1997 in T3? I thought it was more like 2000 or something.

I was watching the movie last night and saw the head stone say 1997.

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, I watched the movie last night too. Couldn't remember the date on her grave. :o
She'd be too young for the role back then anyhow...lol. I do have to say...I think Lena is way hotter as Sarah Connor.
Well, yeah. I kind of prefer Linda Hamilton's look in T2, though. She looked authentically badass, like she's actually been running around with quasi-terrorists for the last ten years.

[Lord Blackbolt]

So far the first two episodes were alright but I don't see the series lasting more than it's obligatory 13 episodes when the show runs out of storylines, maybe it's final episode can be a lead into Terminator 4.

I don't know...Look at Prison break...we're in season 3 now. I think if they can turn it into a fugitive on the run show more than terminator chase every week it can mix things up. One week run from the FBI, or fight a corupt Resistance fighter from the future, next week stop some guy that has some future tech, and so forth....not every episode has to deal with a terminator

[TheCorpulent1]

It looks like they'll be factoring the present-day law enforcement into the show a lot more than they did in the movies. In the movies, cops and feds pretty much just existed to get their **** blown up. I'm really looking forward to the black fed picking up the Connors' trail again. I've always wanted to see someone actually investigate stuff in the Terminator-verse.

[Lord Blackbolt]

I'm pretty sure that FBI guy will join their side soon too. I think he believes them

[TheCorpulent1]

That would be a good twist. Although present-day allies seem to be a little less-than-reliable. I was sad about Enrique. :(

[DACrowe]

I love how continuity of story can be explained away by saying it isn't canon.:whatever:

Says the guy who has as his avy an image of the Joker from a series of movies that decides to say the last four movies, including the original appearance of the Joker is not cannon.

I guess Nolan is lazy, boring and should not be watched either. Sure B&R may suck, but that's canon and by saying it didn't happen makes Nolan retreading old ground, who wants to see that when these events already were explained in Batman and Batman Forever with Joker/Two-Face. Guess hou have to skip The Dark Knight too then. :whatever:

[TheCorpulent1]

Continuity in the Terminator franchise is never set in stone anyway. The whole thing is built on time paradoxes.

[Golgo-13]

Haha, I watched the movie last night too. Couldn't remember the date on her grave. :o

Well, yeah. I kind of prefer Linda Hamilton's look in T2, though. She looked authentically badass, like she's actually been running around with quasi-terrorists for the last ten years.

Lena Headey looks twice as badass as Hamilton, with less muscle. They're both good in their own way. I just find Headey sexier.

[TheCorpulent1]

Headey's definitely sexier, but she also looks meaner, which is why she seems as badass as Hamilton. But she doesn't bring the same level of physical badassery to the role. Maybe I'll change my mind when I see her in combat pants and boots with an arsenal strapped to her torso. :)

[Ghostvirus]

Says the guy who has as his avy an image of the Joker from a series of movies that decides to say the last four movies, including the original appearance of the Joker is not cannon.

I guess Nolan is lazy, boring and should not be watched either. Sure B&R may suck, but that's canon and by saying it didn't happen makes Nolan retreading old ground, who wants to see that when these events already were explained in Batman and Batman Forever with Joker/Two-Face. Guess hou have to skip The Dark Knight too then. :whatever:

Because with comic books that have been around for a long time. You realise that that the characters change with the times. The Joker, & Batman that are represented in this decade reflect on the gritty realism that movies are doing.

Not to mention the fact that Nolan actually seems to respect the franchise, & while the characters look kind of different. He has stuck with the heart & soul of what makes Batman great.

As far as Terminator: Insert Lame Ass Subtitle Here. Is nothing more than a cash cow. The people making this show don't give sh** about continuity. It is pretty obvious they didn't even try to make it blend in with the movies.

I guess that is my main problem with this show. There is a obvious complete lack of respect for the original story.

[Shifty]

Episode 2 already aired, but you can find it at

www.fox.com

episode 3 (and the rest of the 12-13 episode season) airs every Monday at 9 pm. Watch! We can't give Fox a reason to do to this what it did to Firefly...and Arrested Development....and Futurama....and Drive...crap.

I mean it still pulled in good ratings Monday, but it was a significant drop, it doesn't need to go down anymore.

Yeah losing almost half your audience in a span of 24 hours isn't great news.
Due to the great Writer's Strike there will only be 9 episodes this winter, so Fox has 7 more to air.

[M.O.Steel]

Says the guy who has as his avy an image of the Joker from a series of movies that decides to say the last four movies, including the original appearance of the Joker is not cannon.

I guess Nolan is lazy, boring and should not be watched either. Sure B&R may suck, but that's canon and by saying it didn't happen makes Nolan retreading old ground, who wants to see that when these events already were explained in Batman and Batman Forever with Joker/Two-Face. Guess hou have to skip The Dark Knight too then. :whatever:


if you want to get technical, NONE of the comic book movies are cannon. Spiderman, both versions of batman, superman, hulk, punisher, none of them are cannon. And that's why you can keep restarting, rebooting whenever you want, because it will be your version of an elseworld tale.

[DACrowe]

Because with comic books that have been around for a long time. You realise that that the characters change with the times. The Joker, & Batman that are represented in this decade reflect on the gritty realism that movies are doing.

Not to mention the fact that Nolan actually seems to respect the franchise, & while the characters look kind of different. He has stuck with the heart & soul of what makes Batman great.

As far as Terminator: Insert Lame Ass Subtitle Here. Is nothing more than a cash cow. The people making this show don't give sh** about continuity. It is pretty obvious they didn't even try to make it blend in with the movies.

I guess that is my main problem with this show. There is a obvious complete lack of respect for the original story.


I was just pointing out hypocracy, I love what Nolan is doing.

And for the record, I think while this show as obviously created to make money for all involved, the writers thus far have shown a fedelity and love for the original material with the references to Reese, John's relationship with his fater, the Tysons and Enrique in just two episodes. Did they cheat with the time travel bit at the end to keep the second terminator around? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean the whole show is bad.

Is it a retread? Somewhat, but it is taking it a new direction that takes the material seriously and just not as a punchline for merchandise rights and a bid for governor (which T3 was), but takes Sarah and her son's relationship as something not to gloss over and the direction can go in many directions besides "terminator chases."

But because this area of the story was already touched upon by a bad movie that didn't take it seriously, you're writing it off. Well Batman meeting Joker for the first time who is killing so many people in Gotham they get up in arms and there is panic in the streets and they don't trust Batman and a Two-Face who is going around doing wicked **** was already done in the last Batman series. This was already done before, why revisit it?

Because it can be done differently and better. But if T3 is good enough to write off the show, then I say Nolan's movies can be written off because we already saw Burton and Schumaucher handle this material.

[Warhammer]

It would alter when he was sent back, not he himself. He will still be born and should be a new born or about 4 years old (depending on which source the producers want to go with) in the timeline of the show.

It would alter himself. It may still be Kyle Reese, but it wouldn't be the same Kyle Reese that was sent back, setting off the chain of events. T2 establishes that the Kyle Reese sent back was from a future where Judgment Day happened in 1997. If Judgment Day happens in 2012 in this timeline and a Kyle Reese gets sent back, it would not be the same Kyle Reese from the first movie.

Time travel is so stupid. :csad:

The point is to answer the how's and why's of everything you just mentioned.

HOW did John become the man he is destined to be?
HOW much of an impact did Sarah have on John?
HOW was Skynet re-activated despite the events of T2?

Yes we know and have seen everything that has happened...this is about filling in the details.

That's the point of the show.

In order for all of the Terminator mythos to make since without any contradictions, the idea of alternate timelines is the only logical solution. The endless loop theory makes no sense whatsoever. With that said, at the end of TSSC, Skynet would be destroyed and the future war could be prevented. It's all in the hands of the writers, but this particular John Connor may not even be destined to lead the Resistance against Skynet.

[DACrowe]

P.S. I was under the impression that they had 10 episodes written and two that were in early drafts and they (according to an interview with IGN) used scabs to finish those last two, but they still have a total of 12 episodes in the can.

I think the 9 thing is a rumor.

[TheCorpulent1]

It would alter himself. It may still be Kyle Reese, but it wouldn't be the same Kyle Reese that was sent back, setting off the chain of events. T2 establishes that the Kyle Reese sent back was from a future where Judgment Day happened in 1997. If Judgment Day happens in 2012 in this timeline and a Kyle Reese gets sent back, it would not be the same Kyle Reese from the first movie.

Time travel is so stupid. :csad:



In order for all of the Terminator mythos to make since without any contradictions, the idea of alternate timelines is the only logical solution. The endless loop theory makes no sense whatsoever. With that said, at the end of TSSC, Skynet would be destroyed and the future war could be prevented. It's all in the hands of the writers, but this particular John Connor may not even be destined to lead the Resistance against Skynet.
Could be a bit of both. Maybe they keep creating new timelines with every instance of time travel, but Judgment Day and John's leading the humans really are inevitable in all of them anyway. Sort of like what Johns is doing in Booster Gold with events that are "set" in history, like Barbara Gordon's crippling. That happened in the timeline no matter what Booster did to try and change it. Maybe Judgment Day happens no matter what, which leads to the natural conclusion of John leading the humans.

[The Lizard]

When have you ever seen an 800-series Terminator with synthetic skin? Reese stated in the original film that a Terminator's human appearance was made of "living tissue", when being interrogated by Silberman at the police station.

There isn't a T-800 with synthetic skin (as far as we know, anyway), I was just using that as a comparison, but part of the reason why the skin has to be real is because a "naked" T-800 skeleton couldn't go through the time machine. It is clearly stated in the first Terminator movie that no exposed inorganic substance can pass through the portal.

Models such as the T-1000 and the T-X don't follow this, since they use liquid-metal camouflage to form their outward appearance.

Although both the T-1000 and T-X do have liquid metal camouflage, there is no reason not to assume that they both had real skin coverings when they first came through the portal. Remember that the first big "reveal" of the T-1000 in T2 was after he got caught in an explosion. The skin burned away, revealing the liquid metal, which then formed itself to duplicate the missing skin.

Anyway, even if the liquid metal was somehow exempt from the time-travel rules (which I still say it isn't), the T-800 skull would still not be able to pass through. This is the whole reason why the resistance fighters from the future can't bring any weapons with them when they time travel. It's a very important part of the Terminator universe.

[Superfreak]

Continuity in the Terminator franchise is never set in stone anyway. The whole thing is built on time paradoxes.


I think the existance of paradox, can only be defined if we know what happens in the future.

there are things about the future that we don't know. Why Reese alone? Why would Reese be sent to fight a terminator? When the humans of the future were clearly able to send multiple terminators in subsequent films?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's something that bugged me, too. I mean, it's not like the future has to synch up with the past. They could've only learned to reprogram Terminators a hundred years later, but as long as they had the ability to send anything back in time, nothing was stopping them from sending it back to the same time as Kyle in the first movie.
There isn't a T-800 with synthetic skin (as far as we know, anyway), I was just using that as a comparison, but part of the reason why the skin has to be real is because a "naked" T-800 skeleton couldn't go through the time machine. It is clearly stated in the first Terminator movie that no exposed inorganic substance can pass through the portal.



Although both the T-1000 and T-X do have liquid metal camouflage, there is no reason not to assume that they both had real skin coverings when they first came through the portal. Remember that the first big "reveal" of the T-1000 in T2 was after he got caught in an explosion. The skin burned away, revealing the liquid metal, which then formed itself to duplicate the missing skin.

Anyway, even if the liquid metal was somehow exempt from the time-travel rules (which I still say it isn't), the T-800 skull would still not be able to pass through. This is the whole reason why the resistance fighters from the future can't bring any weapons with them when they time travel. It's a very important part of the Terminator universe.
Maybe the machines started lacing their T-800s' metal with carbon or something.

[Superfreak]

and also, anybody ever wonder who the T1000 and TX took their forms from?

I think the idea of a team of commandos in the future being sent to destroy the TDE, lead by Robert Patrick, with the help of Kristana Loken, along with a gritty tech sergeant Reese, as well as a number of friendly terminators for cannon fodder, would be a great way to explain what happened in the future. Especially if the more 'advanced' forms of terminators, unknown to our heroes, would kill off said characters, take their shape, and jump into the TDE... followed by a friendly termie, and when we run out of those, a poor Sgt Reese

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I remember why Reese was the only one who came back in the first movie: the resistance didn't have time travel tech. Reese used the same time machine the T-800 used, basically just following it back to the same settings it had programmed. Granted, this was all orchestrated by John, who knew the Terminator would be sent back because of the time loop paradox that actually worked in the first movie.

[Superfreak]

Oh, I remember why Reese was the only one who came back in the first movie: the resistance didn't have time travel tech. Reese used the same time machine the T-800 used, basically just following it back to the same settings it had programmed. Granted, this was all orchestrated by John, who knew the Terminator would be sent back because of the time loop paradox that actually worked in the first movie.

I'm done with trying to understand it... it really is pointless, everybody's got their own way of looking at it, and any kind of factual timetravel science theory, doesn't help. However, Will enjoy.

I'm still back to my original question though: if humanity wins the war... why aren't we sending back soldiers from the year 2300 (ie. any time after we've won the war, and taken control of the planet again) to clean up this mess?

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe by 2300 they've realized how much time travel ****s up the fabric of reality or something. That could be kind of cool for the show. They've got tons of operatives back in the present now, but maybe they ultimately discover that so many people being in the wrong time winds up altering the timestream too much and destabilizes... something or other... so they stop.

[The Lizard]

Maybe the machines started lacing their T-800s' metal with carbon or something.

The only exposed material that would appear to be able to pass through the time machine is living skin (and hair of course, since people aren't coming through the portal bald).

However, this raises another interesting point. Since the high school teacher Terminator hid a pistol inside his leg flesh to smuggle it into the school, why couldn't he have stashed an advanced pistol from 2027 inside his leg the same way when he time-traveled back in the first place?

That's all getting too picky, I realize. The time-traveling metal skull and the endoskeleton body left in the junkyard are the only two big plot holes that are really annoying me right now.

[Kellys Heroes]

I like the show myself.... but there are some major holes here.

T3: Sarah struggled for 3 yrs w/ her illness before Dying in 97... shortly after the original Judgment Day Date. TV Show: it’s 1999 and not only is Sarah alive; but not even sick. ???? In fact; JD is supposed to be on July 24th 2004 in T3... which did not happen in the show.

T1: Metal needs to covered (not sure if it has to be living tissue, but it does need to be covered by something), thats why Kyle doesn't have any possessions from the future. TV Show: John, Sarah, Teenage Term travel 8 yrs in future... lose their possessions which is constant with the Terminator Time Travel verse (I always thought that you had to strip prior to time travel); however... the head of the evil Terminator comes w/ them. ?? and I saw the skin get burnt off by the anti-terminator weapon prior to them traveling.

Like I said… theres some good stuff in this show, but these plot holes are not easy to other look. Its almost like the creators didn’t pay attention to the source material.

[Kellys Heroes]

Oh, I remember why Reese was the only one who came back in the first movie: the resistance didn't have time travel tech. Reese used the same time machine the T-800 used, basically just following it back to the same settings it had programmed. Granted, this was all orchestrated by John, who knew the Terminator would be sent back because of the time loop paradox that actually worked in the first movie.

In T1; the humans defeated the machines... and the machines sent Arny back in time as a last ditch effort. John ordered Kyle to go back in stop his mother's murder.

[Kellys Heroes]

The only exposed material that would appear to be able to pass through the time machine is living skin (and hair of course, since people aren't coming through the portal bald).

However, this raises another interesting point. Since the high school teacher Terminator hid a pistol inside his leg flesh to smuggle it into the school, why couldn't he have stashed an advanced pistol from 2027 inside his leg the same way when he time-traveled back in the first place?

That seen of the Terminator hiding weapons in their flesh is from the comics... but it really didn't work here.

[Kellys Heroes]

I'm still back to my original question though: if humanity wins the war... why aren't we sending back soldiers from the year 2300 (ie. any time after we've won the war, and taken control of the planet again) to clean up this mess?

What makes you think Humanity is still alive after the War; I would think we'd be in worse shape.

[Superfreak]

What makes you think Humanity is still alive after the War; I would think we'd be in worse shape.

if we can send people even further back in time, to outfit vaults to transform them into TDE, then I'm pretty sure that at some point in the future, we have a firm grasp and control of the future TDE

[TheCorpulent1]

The only exposed material that would appear to be able to pass through the time machine is living skin (and hair of course, since people aren't coming through the portal bald).

However, this raises another interesting point. Since the high school teacher Terminator hid a pistol inside his leg flesh to smuggle it into the school, why couldn't he have stashed an advanced pistol from 2027 inside his leg the same way when he time-traveled back in the first place?

That's all getting too picky, I realize. The time-traveling metal skull and the endoskeleton body left in the junkyard are the only two big plot holes that are really annoying me right now.
I wondered exactly that same thing when I saw it. Why not just build weapons into every nook and cranny of the Terminators rather than forcing them to use stupid modern guns? The machines of the future clearly aren't too concerned with secrecy anymore, given that they have Terminators doing all kinds of crazy, superhuman **** in the present. :o

[Superfreak]

That seen of the Terminator hiding weapons in their flesh is from the comics... but it really didn't work here.

which comic was it where terminators and humans alike, sent dogs with their time travellers, and they served as weapon transports?

[hippie_hunter]

"Alternate" like it just never happened or "Alternate" like because they jumped over it and "prevented" it. cuz if that were the case it wouldnt have changed those missiles from firing in T3.

Think of alternate as in they both happened, they just don't affect each other:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/hippie_hunter/TerminatorTimeline.jpg

[KALEL114]

I like the show myself.... but there are some major holes here.

T3: Sarah struggled for 3 yrs w/ her illness before Dying in 97... shortly after the original Judgment Day Date. TV Show: it’s 1999 and not only is Sarah alive; but not even sick. ???? In fact; JD is supposed to be on July 24th 2004 in T3... which did not happen in the show.

T1: Metal needs to covered (not sure if it has to be living tissue, but it does need to be covered by something), thats why Kyle doesn't have any possessions from the future. TV Show: John, Sarah, Teenage Term travel 8 yrs in future... lose their possessions which is constant with the Terminator Time Travel verse (I always thought that you had to strip prior to time travel); however... the head of the evil Terminator comes w/ them. ?? and I saw the skin get burnt off by the anti-terminator weapon prior to them traveling.

Like I said… theres some good stuff in this show, but these plot holes are not easy to other look. Its almost like the creators didn’t pay attention to the source material.

T3 did/does not happen in the shows timeline. Just like Superman 3 and 4 never happened in SR.

[KALEL114]

Think of alternate as in they both happened, they just don't affect each other:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/hippie_hunter/TerminatorTimeline.jpg
:up:

[TheCorpulent1]

The Terminator continuity is slowly becoming like the Highlander continuity, only with better movies. :(

[hippie_hunter]

So far the first two episodes were alright but I don't see the series lasting more than it's obligatory 13 episodes when the show runs out of storylines, maybe it's final episode can be a lead into Terminator 4.

Terminator 4 is going to be set in the Terminator 3 timeline, not the Sarah Connor Chronicles timeline.

[DACrowe]

My guess is the show is aiming to run through 2011 and then have a judgement day episode and probably the early episodes afterwards. Should be interesting, mind you if Terminator 4 comes out in 2010, that would cut the rug out from under the show's feet for anything past the fourth season...which might be for the best to end it there. I'm hoping it goes for 4 seasons, mind you, though.

An interesting idea that by travelling in the future they may be changing the future too much and the robots maybe frame John for some of the **** that he didn't do....

or better yet by travelling to 2007 and bringing that terminator with them the endoskeleton guy gets caught after the third or fourth episode and they realize by the end of the season that just as they were the cause of the delay of judgement day, as a cruel cosmic joke by existing and surviving (going to 2007) they restarted the loop a la 1984 and the endoskeleton becomes the basis of the rebirth of skynet and changes the future again. Skynet is now chasing them to get more research when they realize Cameron is a cyborg and if they capture her the future is doomed because she is the threshold for more advanced technology for Skynet, before the war begins and the future changes so that people are being sent back to destroy Cameron and even maybe John, because she is captured in 2010 and dooms the future of the resistance.

They could turn this on its head and make the trio running from Skynet and people in the future coming back to stop them, not to help them. Could be interesting.

[Superfreak]

Think of alternate as in they both happened, they just don't affect each other:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/hippie_hunter/TerminatorTimeline.jpg


comment, the one thing you are missing is the original timeline. We have never ever seen it... but it must exist

[Superfreak]

The Terminator continuity is slowly becoming like the Highlander continuity, only with better movies. :(

yeah, except Highlander 2 ruled.... no, not really, just those crazy bird dudes at the begining

[mr. peasant]

I foresee, given Cameron's mentioning that she doesn't take orders from 'this John' and that the two Johns aren't the same 'yet' indicates that in a future episode (possibly the finale), there'll come a point where Sarah will get captured and the 'smart move' would be to leave her and escape. However, John would disagree and decide to meet the threat head on, at which point Cameron will finally take orders from John.

Alternatively, in the sake of further developing the John-Cameron relationship, it would be Cameron that gets captured and at the end of which, Cameron would then proclaim John 'ready' for the battles ahead.

[hippie_hunter]

comment, the one thing you are missing is the original timeline. We have never ever seen it... but it must exist
I was just counting the TV show and the movies to show that the Terminator timeline is just simply split into to continuities after the events of Terminator 2.

I wasn't going to go into full detail with years or comics and video games or any of that crap.

[Superfreak]

I was just counting the TV show and the movies to show that the Terminator timeline is just simply split into to continuities after the events of Terminator 2.

I wasn't going to go into full detail with years or comics and video games or any of that crap.


no, once you go there, you've got robocop jumping around, and it gets a little crazy

[Lord Blackbolt]

maybe the head came through cause there was still a little flesh still on it...and thats why it shot out like that.

[Mike_D202]

yeah, except Highlander 2 ruled.... no, not really, just those crazy bird dudes at the begining

And you cant beat the awesome rock music that plays when Connor and Ramiraz drive through the fortress with machine guns gunning them down. :up:

[M.O.Steel]

maybe the head came through cause there was still a little flesh still on it...and thats why it shot out like that.

It's not like the machine does a checkpoint, and if there's a piece of flesh, it can go through. Metal can't go through, flesh can, so terminators are sent with the skin covering it, or people, and no guns can be sent back,

[BenReilly]

P.S. I was under the impression that they had 10 episodes written and two that were in early drafts and they (according to an interview with IGN) used scabs to finish those last two, but they still have a total of 12 episodes in the can.

I think the 9 thing is a rumor.

No, it's true. Producer, James Middleton confirmed it:

http://www.terminatorsite.com/lenaheadeymiddleton2.htm

One thing even Sarah Connor was not able to triumph over was the current Hollywood writers' strike, which has most likely left The Sarah Connor Chronicles with a shortened season of only nine episodes. "I view the writers' strike as a very disappointing thing. I believe that with our show, we have a viable first season. We have nine total shows, but Lena and I both very much miss the man who developed this show for television, Josh Friedman, who I've come to think of as a bit of a genius and a poet, and I miss working with him and I hope to work with him again. If there were not a writers' strike, I think our show would be just as successful," Middleton says. However, he is not sure what would happen if the strike came to an end in the coming weeks, regarding whether or not they could finish out the rest of their order. "I just don't know. I hope we could," he says. "I have a feeling that the nine shows that we have may be our first season. It takes about five weeks to get a show up and running. We would have to get the writers back into the writer room. They know what they have to do, but still, it takes time. Our show is very involved in terms of CGI, and practical special effects, and costumes and sets, so the preparation time is critical. I don't think that there's a scenario where we could have those last four episodes of our order to be running continuously with this season."

"It really would be up to FOX," Middleton says, revealing that the show's ninth episode does end with a "tremendous" cliffhanger.

[Mike_D202]

I like the show myself.... but there are some major holes here.

T3: Sarah struggled for 3 yrs w/ her illness before Dying in 97... shortly after the original Judgment Day Date. TV Show: it’s 1999 and not only is Sarah alive; but not even sick. ???? In fact; JD is supposed to be on July 24th 2004 in T3... which did not happen in the show.

T1: Metal needs to covered (not sure if it has to be living tissue, but it does need to be covered by something), thats why Kyle doesn't have any possessions from the future. TV Show: John, Sarah, Teenage Term travel 8 yrs in future... lose their possessions which is constant with the Terminator Time Travel verse (I always thought that you had to strip prior to time travel); however... the head of the evil Terminator comes w/ them. ?? and I saw the skin get burnt off by the anti-terminator weapon prior to them traveling.

Like I said… theres some good stuff in this show, but these plot holes are not easy to other look. Its almost like the creators didn’t pay attention to the source material.

Wrap your head around THIS:

If it was established in T3 that Judgement Day was inevitible, no matter how hard they tried to stop it (and stop creating the machines), everything still happend and the machines were still built.

Now, going by that logic, shouldnt the machines in future also know that no matter what they do, they will lose the war? Because it already happend, so its inevitable. Same goes with John Connor still being alive, why send machines back to kill him when we all know hes still alive in the future?

[M.O.Steel]

while i understand that T3 and SCC are in separate timelines, it clear that SCC is throwing nods to the movie, so it is STILL possible, with creative writing (and the inevitable plot holes), that the series finale could end with sarah dying and the possible introduction of kate brewster. Its possible. T

That's the trick with time travel. While it creates problems, it can also create easy (or cheap) solutions. It could always have them just go back in time back to square 1, so in theory, none of the show really happened.

[M.O.Steel]

Wrap your head around THIS:

If it was established in T3 that Judgement Day was inevitible, no matter how hard they tried to stop it (and stop creating the machines), everything still happend and the machines were still built.

Now, going by that logic, shouldnt the machines in future also know that no matter what they do, they will lose the war? Because it already happend, so its inevitable. Same goes with John Connor still being alive, why send machines back to kill him when we all know hes still alive in the future?

I thought about this also. I think it's one of those things where, during the story its still possible to change it. And it has, it's just that, it was never enough. the dates' get pushed around.

[zanos]

I wondered exactly that same thing when I saw it. Why not just build weapons into every nook and cranny of the Terminators rather than forcing them to use stupid modern guns? The machines of the future clearly aren't too concerned with secrecy anymore, given that they have Terminators doing all kinds of crazy, superhuman **** in the present. :o

Why would a terminator need a special weapon to kill a single human being?

[TheCorpulent1]

Why wouldn't they want a tactical advantage in the form of advanced weaponry that nothing on present-day Earth could compare to?

[zanos]

I'm surprised Cameron didn't address the issue of John's existence being wiped out if Judgement day doesn't happen.

[zanos]

Why wouldn't they want a tactical advantage in the form of advanced weaponry that nothing on present-day Earth could compare to?

They already have an advantage. What you're suggesting is like using a hammer to kill a bug.

[TheCorpulent1]

Clearly it's not, given how successful humans have been against Terminators in the past with nothing but the same weaponry and some craftiness.

[Lord Blackbolt]

the TX had weapons...and Arnold had bombs in his chest

[TheCorpulent1]

He had fuel cells that became bombs when... something happened. I wasn't quite sure what he did with them to make them 'splode.

[ToddIsDead]

I think they exploded when they ruptured or something. He didn't make them bombs, but they automatically exploded when damaged.

[LostSon88]

If I recall...they had to be damaged in order to explode. But they were like his batteries so essentially once he blew the last one to kill the TX, he wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway.

[Golgo-13]

When Skynet eventually comes online in 2011, will it recognize any Terminators who are walking around hunting for John or even know and understand the significance of John Conner? Remember Skynet doesn't create Terminators until sometime well into the future, well after the resistance is formed. It created Terminators, that look like humans, in order to crush the resistance. 2011 Skynet shouldn't recognize Terminators as it's own creation, cause it hasn't created them yet.....that is unless with all these strange paradoxs due to time travel, Skynet of 2011 creates Terminators thanks to future Skynet sending them back in time. Like a big circle of time travel paradoxs...

...your thoughts.

[Warhammer]

Could be a bit of both. Maybe they keep creating new timelines with every instance of time travel, but Judgment Day and John's leading the humans really are inevitable in all of them anyway. Sort of like what Johns is doing in Booster Gold with events that are "set" in history, like Barbara Gordon's crippling. That happened in the timeline no matter what Booster did to try and change it. Maybe Judgment Day happens no matter what, which leads to the natural conclusion of John leading the humans.

Interesting. I never thought about it that way. The sad thing is with every example of Judgment Day being inevitable, there are always counter-examples for Judgment Day not being inevitable. This really makes my brain hurt.

while i understand that T3 and SCC are in separate timelines, it clear that SCC is throwing nods to the movie, so it is STILL possible, with creative writing (and the inevitable plot holes), that the series finale could end with sarah dying and the possible introduction of kate brewster. Its possible. T

That's the trick with time travel. While it creates problems, it can also create easy (or cheap) solutions. It could always have them just go back in time back to square 1, so in theory, none of the show really happened.

The producers stated that TSCC is in an alternate timeline, yet they also said that something in a later episode will lead into Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins. It makes no sense at all, I know. Also, if Sarah Connor does die in the show and Kate Brewster is introduced, that Kate Brewster will not technically be the same Kate Brewster that we know from T3. It'd be an alternate version of her.

When Skynet eventually comes online in 2011, will it recognize any Terminators who are walking around hunting for John or even know and understand the significance of John Conner? Remember Skynet doesn't create Terminators until sometime well into the future, well after the resistance is formed. It created Terminators, that look like humans, in order to crush the resistance. 2011 Skynet shouldn't recognize Terminators as it's own creation, cause it hasn't created them yet.....that is unless with all these strange paradoxs due to time travel, Skynet of 2011 creates Terminators thanks to future Skynet sending them back in time. Like a big circle of time travel paradoxs...

...your thoughts.

You're right. It makes no sense that Skynet would know about it. Even in an endless loop, I fail to see the logic in Skynet knowing something that it didn't create yet. In an endless loop theory, it makes no sense, at all. In an alternate timeline theory, it could make sense if they made it so the Terminators were from a different future where the war began with a technically different Skynet.

[The Lizard]

Why would a terminator need a special weapon to kill a single human being?

It wouldn't, but I would think that the future Skynet would have figured out by now that some terminators are being reprogrammed by the resistance and sent back to protect John Connor, so it would try to arm its own terminators with laser guns.

But of course the real reason is that it's more cool-looking to have a terminator blasting away with modern weapons instead of laser guns.

[M.O.Steel]

I'm surprised Cameron didn't address the issue of John's existence being wiped out if Judgement day doesn't happen.
1. no fate but what we make. T2 is already living in an alternate timeline because the invention of robots is from knowledge from the future. So while people don't realize it, T2 is a different timeline also.

2. There is an alternate ending to T2 where John becomes a senator and everything worked out nicely. Essentially, Judgement day was prevented. However, Cameron purposefully decided to go with the open highway ending so that if he wanted, he could come back to it, or just to keep an open story where people can decide which way it could go. There is no indication that judgement day didn't happen. you can make the arguement that since john didn't just disappear, everything happens anyways.

[M.O.Steel]

It wouldn't, but I would think that the future Skynet would have figured out by now that some terminators are being reprogrammed by the resistance and sent back to protect John Connor, so it would try to arm its own terminators with laser guns.

But of course the real reason is that it's more cool-looking to have a terminator blasting away with modern weapons instead of laser guns.

agree. i think they want to emphasize that the terminators themselves are the weapons. in T1, arnold ripped shao kahns' heart out with his bare hands.

[Warhammer]

1. no fate but what we make. T2 is already living in an alternate timeline because the invention of robots is from knowledge from the future. So while people don't realize it, T2 is a different timeline also.

2. There is an alternate ending to T2 where John becomes a senator and everything worked out nicely. Essentially, Judgement day was prevented. However, Cameron purposefully decided to go with the open highway ending so that if he wanted, he could come back to it, or just to keep an open story where people can decide which way it could go. There is no indication that judgement day didn't happen. you can make the arguement that since john didn't just disappear, everything happens anyways.

That is a timeline that I believe exists. Destroying Cyberdyne and all knowledge of the future makes that ending make sense. Doing that would essentially wipe Skynet from history in T2's timeline.

[M.O.Steel]

That is a timeline that I believe exists. Destroying Cyberdyne and all knowledge of the future makes that ending make sense. Doing that would essentially wipe Skynet from history in T2's timeline.

You can believe what you want. But James Cameron himself did not believe in that timeline, and that's why he did not pick that as the ending. It takes a lot for a director to cut a scene, specially after all the moeny spent shooting it, special effects, etc., and he still made the conscious effort to not include it in the final cut.

Secondly, Dyson was NOT the only one that was working on it. There was a whole office of people. And Dyson made perfectly clear that he answered to someone else (the line where he said he asked the same question and you know what they said, "don't ask"). Assuming the company is rich, they would just establish the company somewhere else. Dyson didn't blow of the office while everyone was still in it.

[Warhammer]

You can believe what you want. But James Cameron himself did not believe in that timeline, and that's why he did not pick that as the ending. It takes a lot for a director to cut a scene, specially after all the moeny spent shooting it, special effects, etc., and he still made the conscious effort to not include it in the final cut.

Secondly, Dyson was NOT the only one that was working on it. There was a whole office of people. And Dyson made perfectly clear that he answered to someone else (the line where he said he asked the same question and you know what they said, "don't ask"). Assuming the company is rich, they would just establish the company somewhere else. Dyson didn't blow of the office while everyone was still in it.

You're right. James Cameron cut it (possibly because he didn't like the ending, or because did have a sequel planned at that time, or because he just didn't want his franchise to have a definite ending) and Dyson probably wasn't the only one, but things were left open. There was nothing set in stone, so I am doing what James Cameron intended. He left it for us to interpret. You have to remember that James Cameron created the story, so technically, this show and T3 shouldn't be taken as canon to his story, because he neither wanted them to happen, nor was apart of them. It's like you writing a book, ad somebody writers a sequel. However, because these are films and James Cameron didn't own the rights (Orion had the rights to the first film, then Sony had them, then WB got them), things were made with or without his consent.

We are doing what he intended, debating and have our own interpretations...which is a headache. :csad: :down

[Ion Kenshin]

i feel that if judgement day never happened then john connor would not exist because there would be no resistance or sending of kyle resse back in time to father john

[DACrowe]

No, it's true. Producer, James Middleton confirmed it:

http://www.terminatorsite.com/lenaheadeymiddleton2.htm

Maybe it is 11 now then? Because in an interview with IGN, Dekker and Glau confirmed they made two episodes without Friedman. Maybe they did episodes based on outlines and scab writers to finish off the cliffhanger. I dunno.

[M.O.Steel]

You're right. James Cameron cut it (possibly because he didn't like the ending, or because did have a sequel planned at that time, or because he just didn't want his franchise to have a definite ending) and Dyson probably wasn't the only one, but things were left open. There was nothing set in stone, so I am doing what James Cameron intended. He left it for us to interpret. You have to remember that James Cameron created the story, so technically, this show and T3 shouldn't be taken as canon to his story, because he neither wanted them to happen, nor was apart of them. It's like you writing a book, ad somebody writers a sequel. However, because these are films and James Cameron didn't own the rights (Orion had the rights to the first film, then Sony had them, then WB got them), things were made with or without his consent.

We are doing what he intended, debating and have our own interpretations...which is a headache. :csad: :down

I agree. I was just responding to when you said that you believe that the John the senator ending as the one that exists. I'm just telling you that JC didn't believe in that ending. Ultimately the story-teller has the right. I agree they can do want they want with their story, and that's why i disagree with the lucas haters for the new trilogy. He had the right to add whatever he wants, whether you like it or not.

[M.O.Steel]

You're right. It makes no sense that Skynet would know about it. Even in an endless loop, I fail to see the logic in Skynet knowing something that it didn't create yet.

No but it can take ideas, as was originally the case with teh arm/broken chip

[rizzo51]

i was thinking this was going to be really awful, but so far it has my attention

[Kellys Heroes]

T3 did/does not happen in the shows timeline. Just like Superman 3 and 4 never happened in SR.

I really HATE when creators want us to wipe our brains....

[Kellys Heroes]

Why wouldn't they want a tactical advantage in the form of advanced weaponry that nothing on present-day Earth could compare to?

One idea I had about Terminators not bring advanced weapons back w/ them is.... "what would happen if present day humans got their hands on it." by the time the War comes around; human weapons would be greatly advanced over the machines.

[Kellys Heroes]

It's not like the machine does a checkpoint, and if there's a piece of flesh, it can go through. Metal can't go through, flesh can, so terminators are sent with the skin covering it, or people, and no guns can be sent back,

:csad:; then all the Humans have to do is pour some blood on some Guns when they travel back....

[Kellys Heroes]

One think that would really work for me is that TSCC is the cause of T3. JD orginally got pushed up to 2011 but because of the events in TSCC; the Date will change to 2004. I would like that.

[DACrowe]

Huh? How they are already in 2007. That makes no sense? How can changing things between 2007-2011 effect 2004?

Give up T3 is not part of this continuity.

[TheCorpulent1]

One idea I had about Terminators not bring advanced weapons back w/ them is.... "what would happen if present day humans got their hands on it." by the time the War comes around; human weapons would be greatly advanced over the machines.
When humans in the present got ahold of advanced technology, it ensured Skynet's creation. I don't think any kind of rapid advancement of technology would worry the machines, since every technological leap modern humanity makes just brings them closer to creating the first sentient machines and starting the war.

[Kellys Heroes]

When humans in the present got ahold of advanced technology, it ensured Skynet's creation. I don't think any kind of rapid advancement of technology would worry the machines, since every technological leap modern humanity makes just brings them closer to creating the first sentient machines and starting the war.

Ok; so we agree... it makes no sense and the show is sucking it up with Plotholes.

[TheCorpulent1]

There are some definite plot holes. A few things can be chalked up to chaos theory, though. I mean, even slight changes in something as important as the timeline can change major events--the exact date of Judgment Day, the year Sarah dies, etc.

[GhostPoet]

Let's just all pretend we've never time traveled before and don't know for certain what exactly happens with alterations in a timeline. ;)

[The Lizard]

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7366/termskullzl4.jpg

Damn you, bouncy, time-traveling terminator skull! :cmad:

[Golgo-13]

Let me repeat my question:

When Skynet eventually comes online in 2011, will it recognize any Terminators who are walking around hunting for John or even know and understand the significance of John Conner? Remember Skynet doesn't create Terminators until sometime well into the future, well after the resistance is formed. It created Terminators, that look like humans, in order to crush the resistance. 2011 Skynet shouldn't recognize Terminators as it's own creation, cause it hasn't created them yet.....that is unless with all these strange paradoxs due to time travel, Skynet of 2011 creates Terminators thanks to future Skynet sending them back in time. Like a big circle of time travel paradoxs...

...your thoughts.

[Lord Blackbolt]

You're right. James Cameron cut it (possibly because he didn't like the ending, or because did have a sequel planned at that time, or because he just didn't want his franchise to have a definite ending) and Dyson probably wasn't the only one, but things were left open. There was nothing set in stone, so I am doing what James Cameron intended. He left it for us to interpret. You have to remember that James Cameron created the story, so technically, this show and T3 shouldn't be taken as canon to his story, because he neither wanted them to happen, nor was apart of them. It's like you writing a book, ad somebody writers a sequel. However, because these are films and James Cameron didn't own the rights (Orion had the rights to the first film, then Sony had them, then WB got them), things were made with or without his consent.

We are doing what he intended, debating and have our own interpretations...which is a headache. :csad: :down


Stan Lee created Spiderman, yet people consider the current spiderman comics canon... mostly.... Things have been done to spiderman without Stans consent....though....the way they ****ed up spiderman...maybe they should....but anyway....still...Just because the creator isn't on the project doesn't mean we shouldn't count it. At one point Cameron did want a T3...but after a while ...for some reason he never did it. Arnold came to him with the script and Cameron told him...take a 30 million payment and do the movie...if he wanted he could have told Arnold...don't do it, it's horrible. I'm sure Cameron doesn't care that much they are continuing the story. In Fact I think he might be happy his legacy is continuing with the story.

[The Lizard]

Let me repeat my question:

When Skynet eventually comes online in 2011, will it recognize any Terminators who are walking around hunting for John or even know and understand the significance of John Conner? Remember Skynet doesn't create Terminators until sometime well into the future, well after the resistance is formed. It created Terminators, that look like humans, in order to crush the resistance. 2011 Skynet shouldn't recognize Terminators as it's own creation, cause it hasn't created them yet.....that is unless with all these strange paradoxs due to time travel, Skynet of 2011 creates Terminators thanks to future Skynet sending them back in time. Like a big circle of time travel paradoxs...

...your thoughts.

I'd agree that when Skynet goes online, it will not know about John, the resistance, or the terminators. However, since there seem to be a bunch of terminators mucking around in the past at the moment, it wouldn't be very hard for one of them to upload all that info to Skynet shortly thereafter.

[Mike_D202]

I just watched the second episode-

Anybody else notice that one of the sound fx used in the opening credits of the tv show (when the terminator finishes being built) that its the proton stream from ghostbusters?

[Ion Kenshin]

It could be possible that the lingering Terminators that are in the past all eventually get destroyed by John, Sarah or Cameron before judgement day happens thus there would be no robots to upload that info to skynet.....although lizard your theory works too

[rollotomasi]

http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/845/845512/summer-serenity-image_1200362305.jpg (http://media.stars.ign.com/media/911/911946/imgs_1.html)

SUMMER GLAU IS HOT!!!

[Golgo-13]

I'd agree that when Skynet goes online, it will not know about John, the resistance, or the terminators. However, since there seem to be a bunch of terminators mucking around in the past at the moment, it wouldn't be very hard for one of them to upload all that info to Skynet shortly thereafter.

I'm under the impression that the fact that Skynet creates Terminators to start with, is thanks to the fact that it's future self sent Terminators back in the first place. Kinda like how there would be no John Conners born in the 80's, unless Conner himself didn't send back Reese etc...

[GhostPoet]

I loved how instead of carrying the female Terminator (does she have a name yet?) out of the apartment, Sarah just dumps her out the window. Totally true to Sarah Connor form. :)

[Hypestyle]

i hope the show gets renewed.. summer is a babe..


but what's this about the FBI agent allegedly being a terminator in disguise? some folks out there swear to this.. I don't see it..

[M.O.Steel]

Stan Lee created Spiderman, yet people consider the current spiderman comics canon... mostly.... Things have been done to spiderman without Stans consent....though....the way they ****ed up spiderman...maybe they should....but anyway....still...Just because the creator isn't on the project doesn't mean we shouldn't count it. At one point Cameron did want a T3...but after a while ...for some reason he never did it. Arnold came to him with the script and Cameron told him...take a 30 million payment and do the movie...if he wanted he could have told Arnold...don't do it, it's horrible. I'm sure Cameron doesn't care that much they are continuing the story. In Fact I think he might be happy his legacy is continuing with the story.

I was just thinking this today when i read about the marriage breakup between spidey and MJ. Its still considered cannon even though the original creator is not doing anything with it. JC said that the reason he didn't do T3 is because he felt he said the complete story with T1 and 2. Now you're gonna have different versions of the story. There are gonna be some people who never watched the movies, and the show is their first exposure to the story. Some people never watched T1 and/or T2, and don't really care for the show, think that T3 is part of T1 or a story by itself. Just like superman...some dollow donner-verse, some like singer-man, and some prefer smallville, and some dont' like any of them, and stick to the comic books. even then, some like byrnes, some prefer waid, some prefer lee.

[GhostPoet]

Fox better not cut this show. I imagine them standing over it with a knife to its throat just WAITING for the ratings to faulter. :)

I hope it's doing great...haven't seen the ratings on ep 2 yet though.

[M.O.Steel]

i hope the show gets renewed.. summer is a babe..


but what's this about the FBI agent allegedly being a terminator in disguise? some folks out there swear to this.. I don't see it..

I agree on both counts. about the second one, if that does turno out to be the case, it would be a cheap plot twist. But I don't it happening.

I loved how instead of carrying the female Terminator (does she have a name yet?) out of the apartment, Sarah just dumps her out the window. Totally true to Sarah Connor form. :)

yeah me too.

[M.O.Steel]

Fox better not cut this show. I imagine them standing over it with a knife to its throat just WAITING for the ratings to faulter. :)

I hope it's doing great...haven't seen the ratings on ep 2 yet though.

really? i think it will be the opposite. They are gonna try to milk out as much as possible, like 24 and prison break. Those shows are way past their prime, and fox just doesn't seem to want to let go. or smallville (although not fox).

[GhostPoet]

If that's true...then they can milk Prison Break all they want. I freaking love that show. :)

[M.O.Steel]

If that's true...then they can milk Prison Break all they want. I freaking love that show. :)

Don't get me wrong, i'm still a fan and i watch both the shows religiously, but you have to admit, it has gone down a little. PB--1 st season was amazing. 2nd season, while not as great as the first, was good for closure. I'm just not feeling this 3rd/4th one.

[Primal Slayer]

really? i think it will be the opposite. They are gonna try to milk out as much as possible, like 24 and prison break. Those shows are way past their prime, and fox just doesn't seem to want to let go. or smallville (although not fox).

ya but those shows are still doing good in ratings. If a fox show doesnt generate enough buzz and get great ratings, Fox will pull it asap which sucks about the network.

[Kellys Heroes]

Let me repeat my question:

When Skynet eventually comes online in 2011, will it recognize any Terminators who are walking around hunting for John or even know and understand the significance of John Conner? Remember Skynet doesn't create Terminators until sometime well into the future, well after the resistance is formed. It created Terminators, that look like humans, in order to crush the resistance. 2011 Skynet shouldn't recognize Terminators as it's own creation, cause it hasn't created them yet.....that is unless with all these strange paradoxs due to time travel, Skynet of 2011 creates Terminators thanks to future Skynet sending them back in time. Like a big circle of time travel paradoxs...

...your thoughts.

I think those Terminators would be smashed by the nucks...

[Ion Kenshin]

nucks???

[M.O.Steel]

Well considering it was the highest rated show in the last decade for fox, i don't see it dipping low enough to warrant a cancellation.

[Superfreak]

Well considering it was the highest rated show in the last decade for fox, i don't it dipping low enough to warrant a cancellation.


it's a unique situation though

[SWAT]

nucks???

I think he meant... Ducks.

[M.O.Steel]

it's a unique situation though
how

[DACrowe]

It came on after one of the biggest football games of the year ended and during the writer's strike so outside of Lost is the only good scripted show (which means show in general as I hate reality TV) to be coming on at this point in the mid-season. It has zero competition, except people who like Deal or No Deal (which did unfortunately carry Monday night a small bit).

My hope is that the hype will stay with the show and since Fox will market it out the wazhoo during American Idol and NFL play-offs/Superbowl that it will keep interest and awareness high for people to continue to watch it.

I know it will finish all 9-12 episodes, but it needs to get renewed and then it will have competition when it comes back in 2009 (assuming that the writer strike actually ends in time to begin new shows by mid season next year).

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'm really curious about how this series would've done if it had any scripted competition whatsoever. It's a decent show so far, but I doubt so many people would've even given it a chance if some veteran scripted show were on against it.

[Superfreak]

It came on after one of the biggest football games of the year ended and during the writer's strike so outside of Lost is the only good scripted show (which means show in general as I hate reality TV) to be coming on at this point in the mid-season. It has zero competition, except people who like Deal or No Deal (which did unfortunately carry Monday night a small bit).

My hope is that the hype will stay with the show and since Fox will market it out the wazhoo during American Idol and NFL play-offs/Superbowl that it will keep interest and awareness high for people to continue to watch it.

I know it will finish all 9-12 episodes, but it needs to get renewed and then it will have competition when it comes back in 2009 (assuming that the writer strike actually ends in time to begin new shows by mid season next year).


precisely, zero competition coupled with fanboy appeal. I'm excited to see where it goes. I'm jus not ready to sell myself as a viewer quite yet.

[mr. peasant]

but what's this about the FBI agent allegedly being a terminator in disguise? some folks out there swear to this.. I don't see it..

I seriously doubt they'll go down that route. My money is that as he continues to investigate the case, he'll start to believe (or at least suspect) that Sarah's claims are for real. However, I hope this doesn't lead to them joining forces, etc but that he remains solo as he investigates whoever the new group responsible for creating SkyNet are.

[Warhammer]

Stan Lee created Spiderman, yet people consider the current spiderman comics canon... mostly.... Things have been done to spiderman without Stans consent....though....the way they ****ed up spiderman...maybe they should....but anyway....still...Just because the creator isn't on the project doesn't mean we shouldn't count it. At one point Cameron did want a T3...but after a while ...for some reason he never did it. Arnold came to him with the script and Cameron told him...take a 30 million payment and do the movie...if he wanted he could have told Arnold...don't do it, it's horrible. I'm sure Cameron doesn't care that much they are continuing the story. In Fact I think he might be happy his legacy is continuing with the story.

Mhmm...that's a stretch and different. Spider-Man is comic book character and stories were meant to continue with the upcoming years. Films like this are more like books. It's like if you wrote a series of books and finished a story, then somebody decided that they wanted to continue a story that you, the creator, finished. Or it'd be if somebody made another episode of Star Wars about the New Jedi Order, when George Lucas specifically stated that the films were about Anakin Skywalker. It's more like that.

Oh well. We got what we got, and we all have our own personal views/theories on the franchise, what happens, etc.

[TheCorpulent1]

I honestly wouldn't mind a film about the New Jedi Order. The Star Wars franchise has been better in hands other than Lucas' for years and years now.

[Golgo-13]

I think there are thousands of actresses out there that could have pulled off the female Terminator role. But what i love about Summer is that during the fight/action scenes she really does sell it. I mean, she sells it better than Loken imo. Her face is completely emotionless, when she's being smashed through walls during battle. :up:

[Lord Blackbolt]

yeah...Fox did the Star Wars movies....maybe they will show the "upcoming" Star Wars TV show.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think there are thousands of actresses out there that could have pulled off the female Terminator role. But what i love about Summer is that during the fight/action scenes she really does sell it. I mean, she sells it better than Loken imo. Her face is completely emotionless, when she's being smashed through walls during battle. :up:
I agree. I think Loken sold the motion and body language better, though. When she's walking, I can easily believe that she's really a machine. Summer looks a bit too natural. Still, if she's somehow different from other Terminators, there may be a reason for that.

[Golgo-13]

I only saw T3 twice, i can't remember how Loken arrived. Was she kneeling down like Arnold?

[M.O.Steel]

I agree. I think Loken sold the motion and body language better, though. When she's walking, I can easily believe that she's really a machine. Summer looks a bit too natural. Still, if she's somehow different from other Terminators, there may be a reason for that.

I think that's a point, she's learning how to be natural (latino girl example). I think by the end of the show, she will pretty much act entirely human.

[M.O.Steel]

I only saw T3 twice, i can't remember how Loken arrived. Was she kneeling down like Arnold?

yes, in some shop.

[Golgo-13]

I wish i had taped the first ep. During the scene when the substitute teacher was calling the role, i could have sworn a couple of John 's classmates got blasted during the malay.

And during that school scene Summer acted more human than she did after it's revealed she's a machine.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, her way of speaking and moving both suddenly changed after we learn that she's a Terminator.

[Lord Blackbolt]

Maybe now that she has revealed herself to John..she doesn't have to pretend to be more human...they're both going back to school together now....so she might return to her more human motion when they return.

[M.O.Steel]

I wish i had taped the first ep. During the scene when the substitute teacher was calling the role, i could have sworn a couple of John 's classmates got blasted during the malay.

And during that school scene Summer acted more human than she did after it's revealed she's a machine.

It's on FOX.com. you can watch it there. I didn't notice other people getting hurt. It's true that not all the shots hit ms. summer, but i don't think they hit anyone else. I saw the pilot twice, but i could be wrong also.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe now that she has revealed herself to John..she doesn't have to pretend to be more human...they're both going back to school together now....so she might return to her more human motion when they return.
Well, that just seems odd. If she can turn it on and off like that, why wouldn't she just stay in "human" mode all the time?

[M.O.Steel]

who would like SCC to have it's own section. I think it's only fair. Heroes has it's own place, and so does bond. I think the terminator franchise should have a section also. Is anyoen with me, and if so, how do we go about it?

[Lord Blackbolt]

Well, that just seems odd. If she can turn it on and off like that, why wouldn't she just stay in "human" mode all the time?

I don't know...I didn't write the show..I'm just guessing...

[Lord Blackbolt]

Well, that just seems odd. If she can turn it on and off like that, why wouldn't she just stay in "human" mode all the time?

I don't know...I didn't write the show..I'm just guessing...:woot:

[Golgo-13]

The most worthless scene on tv belongs to......

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/indirav1/t2.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that chick annoyed me. :o

[Lord Blackbolt]

Since she's the only chick in that gang...they probably all gang bang her....maybe that's why she's so pissed off all the time

[Lord Blackbolt]

who would like SCC to have it's own section. I think it's only fair. Heroes has it's own place, and so does bond. I think the terminator franchise should have a section also. Is anyoen with me, and if so, how do we go about it?


Yeah...I'm with you on that. with the new movie coming out too.....This will be a hot franchise again.

[SalaciousVC]

I loved the Movies,But this show is Pretty sad,It's sad that it even Has the Terminator in it's name,The acting is really Wooden.It will probally get cancelled like all shows anyway,But thats just my Opinion

[TheCorpulent1]

Since she's the only chick in that gang...they probably all gang bang her....maybe that's why she's so pissed off all the time
That's kind of sad if it's true. :(

[The Lizard]

The most worthless scene on tv belongs to......

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/indirav1/t2.jpg


She's chonga-licious!

[mr. peasant]

Well, that just seems odd. If she can turn it on and off like that, why wouldn't she just stay in "human" mode all the time?

Because it isn't necessary and is purely an act. An analogy would be when applying for a job, you would wear your best suit and behave more professionally than you would normally would on a day-to-day basis.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Huh? How they are already in 2007. That makes no sense? How can changing things between 2007-2011 effect 2004?

Give up T3 is not part of this continuity.

I know,i can't belive everyone is talking as if it is. The first Terminiator established the possible apocalyptic future,Judgement Day prevented it from happening. Speaking of that, T3 trash asside..what was the original timeline?

The first Terminator takes place in 1984,Judgement Day takes place i would guess in the early 90's. Skynet and the last of the humans wage war in 2029. Anything that i'm missing?

[Mikelus]

I loved the Movies,But this show is Pretty sad,It's sad that it even Has the Terminator in it's name,The acting is really Wooden.It will probally get cancelled like all shows anyway,But thats just my Opinion

Wooden? You can't be serious! The acting is ok, the only ones being "wooden" are the terminators themselves, but they are machines! I don't think you can get more wooden that Governator himself anyway. :oldrazz:

[Timstuff]

Because it isn't necessary and is purely an act. An analogy would be when applying for a job, you would wear your best suit and behave more professionally than you would normally would on a day-to-day basis.

I was going to say that too. Cameron acts more human when she's trying to blend in, but when it's not necessary, she doesn't. A better version of you analogy would be that if you have a desk job, it doesn't mean you would wear a tie when you're at home.

BTW, does anyone think there's any chance of the Governator himself making a cameo on this show at some point? I hope so. :D

[M.O.Steel]

I was going to say that too. Cameron acts more human when she's trying to blend in, but when it's not necessary, she doesn't. A better version of you analogy would be that if you have a desk job, it doesn't mean you would wear a tie when you're at home.

BTW, does anyone think there's any chance of the Governator himself making a cameo on this show at some point? I hope so. :D

OR when you're on date vs. with your buddies.

[DACrowe]

Okay a few points:

1. The scene with the Latina girl was one of my favorites in that entire episode, because it was nice subtle comedy watching Cameron mimic her and was imo hilarious.

2. The timeline itself makes no sense in that there would be no future without John and there is no John without the future, it is more than a time loop it is circular logic...meaning BS. On top of that T2 they change the future which means John should cease to exist, to continue to exist they are in an alternate timeline and it just makes no sense anymore. So, why complain about this contradicting events in T1 when T2 did it first?

3. The reason Cameron can be explained as more robotic in the first real episode is because she is no longer in disguise around them. However, it looks like she is that way in public too. The real reason is the pilot was a sales pitch to Fox first and an episode to watch second. It was showing Fox how this show would work as a TV series and they sold a more humanistic Cameron who can develop and become likeable by the studio execs. Now, that it is a show they are reverting to slowly develop her to the point of having real emotion and being more sentient, until then they are going back to the original concept. Also, I'd assume Glau is more comfortable in the role.

[Superfreak]

2. The timeline itself makes no sense in that there would be no future without John and there is no John without the future, it is more than a time loop it is circular logic...meaning BS. On top of that T2 they change the future which means John should cease to exist, to continue to exist they are in an alternate timeline and it just makes no sense anymore. So, why complain about this contradicting events in T1 when T2 did it first?




wrong, at the time of T2, we do not know if the future was changed or not(suprise bonus endings on the DVD do not change anything). T2 did not change the future, had it, John would have disappeared from 'marty mcFly's picture of the future'. We know that T2 did not change event in the future enough to erase the war, and subsequently John's existance. T2 couldn't possibly have changed anything so drastically, eddy furlong was still eddy furlong, Sarah connor was still crazy, reese is still the father etc.

It wasn't until T3 that we discovered that the events of T2 merely adapted the timeline, rather than change it. It is still T3 (as well as poorly planned dating by Cameron back in 1984) that leads to all these timetravel issues, gaddamn the mofo who came up with it (however, I can understand what the writer was trying to do, given that all the key date in T and T2 had been passed already). Cameron should have picked a date more than 15 years in the future for the war. These are things a producer should be thinking about when making a movie, things like: if this film goes into sequels... will the literal time of production begin to infringe upon the narrative dates within the film?

Blame the person who decided to put actual dates in the movie, if you want to be fair. Judgement Day should have been and unknown date, 'the not so distant future'... and the future war should have been set in the 'distant future'.

[Superfreak]

Give up T3 is not part of this continuity.

T3 is part of the continuity... it is however not part of this timeline tangent. But given the confusing nature of time travel... it does not mean that timetravelers from T3 cannot travel back in time, and affect SCC prior to the begining of the series, etc.

it is part of the same continuity, but definately in a different timeline, that can affect other timelines, depending on where divergences occur.

all the timelines exist simultaneously, but can only interact with other timelines, and affect new timelines in the past. This is the problem with the mere existance of time displacement equipment. As soon as it exists, then it creates zillions of timelines, that can each affect and change each other, by pulling on strings in the past.

[Mikelus]

Superfreak, DAC was referring to the fact that T3 is not part of SCC's continuity. SCC is in the line of T1 and T2, so T3 doesn't affect this show, case closed.

[DACrowe]

wrong, at the time of T2, we do not know if the future was changed or not(suprise bonus endings on the DVD do not change anything). T2 did not change the future, had it, John would have disappeared from 'marty mcFly's picture of the future'. We know that T2 did not change event in the future enough to erase the war, and subsequently John's existance. T2 couldn't possibly have changed anything so drastically, eddy furlong was still eddy furlong, Sarah connor was still crazy, reese is still the father etc.

It wasn't until T3 that we discovered that the events of T2 merely adapted the timeline, rather than change it. It is still T3 (as well as poorly planned dating by Cameron back in 1984) that leads to all these timetravel issues, gaddamn the mofo who came up with it (however, I can understand what the writer was trying to do, given that all the key date in T and T2 had been passed already). Cameron should have picked a date more than 15 years in the future for the war. These are things a producer should be thinking about when making a movie, things like: if this film goes into sequels... will the literal time of production begin to infringe upon the narrative dates within the film?

Blame the person who decided to put actual dates in the movie, if you want to be fair. Judgement Day should have been and unknown date, 'the not so distant future'... and the future war should have been set in the 'distant future'.

No the date makes it scarier.

And just FYI there is also an alternate ending to T2 where we see the world at peace and Sarah as an old woman and John as a senator. That was wisely avoided.

[Lord Blackbolt]

T3 might be avoided, but there still seems to be various themes and plots recurring from that movie in this show...

[Superfreak]

No the date makes it scarier.

And just FYI there is also an alternate ending to T2 where we see the world at peace and Sarah as an old woman and John as a senator. That was wisely avoided.

everybody knows about that, it's bonus footage

I'm agreeing with you guys, if you realize it or not. T3 is out of the picture as far as the show is concerned... but that all depends on which future cameron comes from(but things get unexplicably complicated at that point). And it's pretty clearly pointed out by reese in the original terminator... there are many possible futures, and he comes from one of them.

All I'm saying is that T3 is out, but it still exists.

Interestingly enough if this show ends up going the distance, and playing until the supposed sequels to T3. It would be interesting to see one timeline fail... and the other succeed (like they'd ever do that though)

[TheCorpulent1]

Because it isn't necessary and is purely an act. An analogy would be when applying for a job, you would wear your best suit and behave more professionally than you would normally would on a day-to-day basis.
That doesn't make any sense. It's not like behaving better than she normally would. It's like toggling a switch because she's a machine. She can do either equally well.

[Kellys Heroes]

I watch a video on Youtube about the Deleted Scenes in T2. Some had to do with the T1000 becoming more and more unstable as the movie goes on. That could be used as one exuse as to why older model terminators are sent back since the T1000 is know to be unstable.

[TheCorpulent1]

The T-1000 did get more unstable towards the end of the movie. After he was frozen, he pulled himself back together, but he couldn't keep his shape as consistent. His boots kept melding with the floor and stuff. But it was hardly a major problem, and it only happened after a once-in-a-lifetime chance event.

[mr. peasant]

That doesn't make any sense. It's not like behaving better than she normally would. It's like toggling a switch because she's a machine. She can do either equally well.

It does, at least for me. As a machine, her actions and decisions are made based out of necessity and logic. As maintaining her 'human mode' provides no benefit, she does not bother with the additional effort. In my opinion, her human behavior is based on observations, etc and are programmed to be used to maintain her cover. Often, maintaining that cover isn't necessary, in which case, there is no point in behaving human.

Also, I think it is done on purpose to allow more space for character development. I suspect that as the series progresses and she spends more time with John, she will eventually adopt a more human personality even when in neutral mode.

And finally, here's another reason for it; the audience. For those unfamiliar with the Terminator concept, having Cameron act perfectly human-like while the villainous Terminators appear more robotic would be somewhat confusing. They have to show that she is actually indeed a robot pretending to be human. And perhaps more importantly, there would be a portion of the Terminator fans who would complain if Cameron acted completely human all the time given her status as a machine, which prior to this had always been depicted as at least partially robotic.

[GhostPoet]

It does, at least for me. As a machine, her actions and decisions are made based out of necessity and logic. As maintaining her 'human mode' provides no benefit, she does not bother with the additional effort. In my opinion, her human behavior is based on observations, etc and are programmed to be used to maintain her cover. Often, maintaining that cover isn't necessary, in which case, there is no point in behaving human.

Also, I think it is done on purpose to allow more space for character development. I suspect that as the series progresses and she spends more time with John, she will eventually adopt a more human personality even when in neutral mode.

And finally, here's another reason for it; the audience. For those unfamiliar with the Terminator concept, having Cameron act perfectly human-like while the villainous Terminators appear more robotic would be somewhat confusing. They have to show that she is actually indeed a robot pretending to be human. And perhaps more importantly, there would be a portion of the Terminator fans who would complain if Cameron acted completely human all the time given her status as a machine, which prior to this had always been depicted as at least partially robotic.


VERY well said my friend. Her human personality is somewhat thin right now as it hasn't developed enough yet. So, right now the human personality is only used in situations she determines it neccessary. It's a tool, nothing more. But I think as she is around John more...she will come to "like" the human personality and use it as more than just another one of her tools/abilities.

Anyway...I love the show. I think it does everything right.