X-Men and Homosexuality: The Connection

[bengan]

But my question is, if swedish gay people is good enough to adopt children and it all turned out allright. Why cant the US goverment see that and allow gaypeople to adopt children?

[Avalanche]

Put my question is, if swedish gay people is good enough to adopt children and it all turned out allright. Why cant the US goverment see that and allow gaypeople to adopt children?
Because the US is a very religious society, in which being gay is wrong in itself, never mind allowing for gay marriage and adoption. Sweden is probably a more liberal society, as a lot of the scandanavian societies tend to be. I believe you allow euthanasia under certain circumstances too?

[bengan]

Because the US is a very religious society, in which being gay is wrong in itself, never mind allowing for gay marriage and adoption. Sweden is probably a more liberal society, as a lot of the scandanavian societies tend to be. I believe you allow euthanasia under certain circumstances too?
No, that we dont do. But we have a good abortionlaw.

[ico]

Holy crap, I just watched that video and I have never been so raged in my life. GOD that woman is just.. awful. Just awful. I cannot believe she tries to justify her persecuting people because the Bible says so, even though the reporter clearly said out loud thatthe Bible tells her to forgive people who sin and to love them.

Frickin nutter.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to fantasizing about the final Phoenix VS Logan showdown from X3, but with me in place of Phoenix and that crazy-ass woman as Logan. And believe me. Phoenix doesn't die this time, oh no.

[LEX]

roughly 75% of the things i say on these boards are a joke.

she's back!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCdT9dfrb-Q
I enjoyed watching Julie Banderas taking it out on Phelps. But Shirley Phelps-Roper, what a *****. Seriously, someone kill her already. She is evil. Why is this woman still allowed on TV? What a ****ing retard.

[squeekness]

Maybe they allow her for the freak factor. People watch Jerry Springer not because they are intersted in the topics, but because they want to see the fights. People love to watch other people make an ass of themselves.

[littyx]

This whole religion and Bible talk is reminding me of a book that I recently read for my human sexuality class. It was called "Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-Sex Relationships". It's an excellent book and If any of you are religious, or were religious, its a must read! My boyfriends very Christian, gay friend let me borrow it. It opens the Bible up to so many things regarding homosexuality. For instance, the word gay or homosexual is never even spoken in the Bible. And any negative story regarding a homosexual act is based on a homosexual prostitute or an act of violence. There is NO story in the bible that condemns a loving homosexual relationship.

There are even stories when Jesus met a homosexual, and never condemned him. Jesus never spoke negatively about gay people.

[newwaveboy87]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to fantasizing about the final Phoenix VS Logan showdown from X3, but with me in place of Phoenix and that crazy-ass woman as Logan. And believe me. Phoenix doesn't die this time, oh no.
haha...i love ya's so!

[newwaveboy87]

I enjoyed watching Julie Banderas taking it out on Phelps.
I KNOW!! :)

[squeekness]

This whole religion and Bible talk is reminding me of a book that I recently read for my human sexuality class. It was called "Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-Sex Relationships". It's an excellent book and If any of you are religious, or were religious, its a must read! My boyfriends very Christian, gay friend let me borrow it. It opens the Bible up to so many things regarding homosexuality. For instance, the word gay or homosexual is never even spoken in the Bible. And any negative story regarding a homosexual act is based on a homosexual prostitute or an act of violence. There is NO story in the bible that condemns a loving homosexual relationship.

There are even stories when Jesus met a homosexual, and never condemned him. Jesus never spoke negatively about gay people.This did not happen in any Gospel I read. Are they referring to Secret Mark? Secret Mark was a rejected Gospel writen by a Gnostic. If it isn't Secret Mark, I'd love to know what Gospel it came from.

Just the same, it is true that Jesus never once specifically says anything about gay people either way, and if it was such a big issue to him, you know he would have. Everything else was in the Gospels. This is why I agree that Jesus would not condemn gay people, only sex offenders. And even then, he'd probably hustle those sex offenders off to treatment to make them better people. :)

[littyx]

Squeek, read the book I mentioned. Like I said the word gay or homosexual is never uttered in the Bible. You need to know all the true meanings and interpretations of the original language the bible was in to realize what the book makes clear. That Jesus indeed met a gay man.

[squeekness]

Squeek, read the book I mentioned. Like I said the word gay or homosexual is never uttered in the Bible. You need to know all the true meanings and interpretations of the original language the bible was in to realize what the book makes clear. That Jesus indeed met a gay man.
I am unfamiliar with the book you mentioned, but here's another that probably used the same sources. I wrote a short review for my bibliography on it. I have the name and author highlighted in blue because I have it on my mandatory reading list for any Chrisitian.

Helminiak, Daniel ~ What the Bible Really says about Homosexuality. (Discussion class) A most excellent look at Scripture and what can go wrong when translating from ancient texts. He says the best way to look at the issue is in context of the times the Scripture was written. What did homosexuality mean to the authors. A close examination of the Greek reveals not a blanket condemnation of homosexual behavior, but of it’s abuses (exploitation, pederest behavior, prostitution, rape, ect...). His arguments are supported by the Apologetic Letters of Justin Martyr to the Roman Court. The concerns of Leviticus reveal more of maintaining Jewish identity (vrs. Canaanites), than homosexual acts themselves. Was a good book and really made ya think. ****


He mentions Secret Mark in here which had an alternate look at Jesus' revival of Lazarus, one that could be twisted to mean that Jesus was in some way involved with Laz in a homosexual manner. Secret Mark is a heretical document and one that was never fully recovered so we don't know everything that was in it. I am however quite familiar with the four cannonical Gospels and in not one of them is there a directly stated encounter with a homosexual which makes me question your guy's source. In fact one of the most telling things is that in those four Gospels no homosexual anythings are discussed at all. It just wasn't an issue for Jesus or at least the four Gospel writers. If you still have the book, I would be interested to know where that story came from is all.

[commento]

But my question is, if swedish gay people is good enough to adopt children and it all turned out allright. Why cant the US goverment see that and allow gaypeople to adopt children?

I maybe wrong but "gays" are allowed to adopt here it's just maybe harder or there are just some people who are trying to ban "gays" from adopting?

My husband would be better at saying this but both of us are glad to be americans, yet here in amercia we still have many things to learn from other countries when it comes to "gays" among other issues. No offense but it seams like America is like a redneck cousin when it comes to some issues.

[squeekness]

The Catholic Church in America announced earlier this year that it was discontinuing funding for adoptions because the government had told them that they were legally obligated to help everyone, not just those they picked and chose. The Church's answer to that was to quit the fund entirely. :rolleyes:

[newwaveboy87]

I maybe wrong but "gays" are allowed to adopt here it's just maybe harder or there are just some people who are trying to ban "gays" from adopting?

My husband would be better at saying this but both of us are glad to be americans, yet here in amercia we still have many things to learn from other countries when it comes to "gays" among other issues. No offense but it seams like America is like a redneck cousin when it comes to some issues.
it's actually illegal in some states for gays to adopt children, but not for them to be a foster family.

[commento]

it's actually illegal in some states for gays to adopt children, but not for them to be a foster family.

Really, Anybody have an idea how I could search on the web to see what states those are?

[newwaveboy87]

i know one of them is Florida for sure. some of the others are a big ? in my mind right now. Google it and find out.

[JustABill]

I should make my presence known in this thread more...

[Avalanche]

In England recently there was a case concerning a gay couple who abused foster children in their care, and were both sentenced to life I think. It's the type of case that makes people wary of allowing gay men around children, which is a shame. The focus should be on the fact that these two men were bad men, not that they were gay. The judge himself felt the need to point this out.

[squeekness]

Yeah, because straight people never abuse their kids....:rolleyes: Sexuality has nothing to do with whether or not a person will abuse. I hate that a gay abuser gets mroe press than a straight one.

[thegameq]

The X-Men supposedly is an allegory that symbolises the struggle of minority groups in general. This includes gay people. But I don't know what minority groups the creators had in mind. They may not have been thinking specifically of gay people. There was McCarthyism in the USA - McCarthyism took place during a period of intense suspicion in the United States primarily from 1950 to 1954, when the US government was actively countering American Communist Party subversion, its leadership, and others suspected of being Communists or Communist sympathizers. During this period people from all walks of life became the subject of aggressive "witch-hunts," often based on inconclusive or questionable evidence.

And of course there was the racist events in the USA too. And the civil rights movement that led to the protests led by Martin Luther King and the passing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. It was in 1963, the year the X-Men was first published, that Martin Luther King said: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C. (28 August 1963).

During the 60s there was also a rising gay rights movement in the USA that led to the Stonewall Riots of 1969.

So the X-Men was created in a time where social/political minority groups - in particular blacks, gays and Communists - were fighting for their rights in a time of persecution. Although Communists are not born different - it's a political choice - they were part of this climate of discrimination, fear and suspicion.

In the X-Men universe, the scientific term mutants is applied to those born with unusual abilities (and/or appearances) just as many people believe there is a 'gay gene', although I don't know whether there were strong scientific thoughts about a gay gene at the time the X-Men was first created.

The persecution element and the fight for rights is present in the comics in a very powerful sense, and has been reinforced by the movies. The movies contain what could be interpreted as several ideas that have particular resonance with gay people - running away from home (Rogue), the search for true identity (Wolverine), fear of what normal people might think (Storm, in her conversation with the dying Senator Kelly), fear of taking part in normal life because they may be shunned or bullied (Mystique in her conversation with Kelly on the helicopter). And Magneto's Jewish/gipsy parents being led to the gas chamber (as gay people also were). Also, Iceman's 'coming out' scene with his parents in X2 has been seen by many as having a strong gay subtext.

Bryan Singer - who is gay - was attracted to the movies by the idea of persecuted minorities. He is also Jewish and as an adopted child is also searching for his true identity -- which is why he focused on, and identified with, Wolverine in particular.

Ian McKellen was attracted to the X-Men movies by its symbolism for struggling minorities. And Singer said he would often direct McKellen with a gay reference. In an interview in Total Film magazine (issue 44, September 2000), Singer was asked how he got the actors to find their characters (they were not allowed to read the comics), and he responded: "You find tricks and ways of getting them to speak, or intellectually: 'Look, Ian, this is a society of people who want to wipe out homosexuals. What do you feel about that?' There's ways to do it."

In the same interview, Singer says: "The idea about reluctant superheroes, born the way they are, searching for acceptance in a world that hates and fears them, it's interesting. It's what every adolescent experiences at one point or another. It's what I experience every day."

Producer Lauren Schuler Donner said in the same magazine article: "Thematically there's a lot to relate to. It's about oppression. It's about prejudice, it could be the Jews in World War Two, it could be gay people."

I know this doesn't relate to the topic and I understand the reasoning, but..............

That is probably the biggest reason why so many fans had a problem with the X-films. Singer let his own ego and personal desires get in the way of making a film that for all intent and purposes should have been made to please the fans (ala SM) first and NOT make some personal statement from the director. We all know X-men is essentially a social allegory--alright, enough already--we know damnit! Stop shoving it down our throats!! We wanted an X-men movie based off of the comics fans have all grown to love and cherish for their humanity and the fantastic world they live in.

In other words: Don't use something that everyone loves and was expecting a truer version of to make your own personal statement. It's wrong and it's an insult to the fans. If Singer wanted to make a personal movie that was a social allegory he could identify with, he should have used another vehicle-preferably his own and not someone elses material.

Yes there are other factors that caused the X-films to come out the way they did, but I feel Singer's ego was clearly one of the biggest factors.

Damn!! I can't believe they messed up one of the greatest comics of all time!!!

[ico]

In other words: Don't use something that everyone loves and was expecting a truer version of to make your own personal statement. It's wrong and it's an insult to the fans. If Singer wanted to make a personal movie that was a social allegory he could identify with, he should have used another vehicle-preferably his own and not someone elses material.

Yes there are other factors that caused the X-films to come out the way they did, but I feel Singer's ego was clearly one of the biggest factors.

Damn!! I can't believe they messed up one of the greatest comics of all time!!!

I totally disagree. By shadowing the film alongside real-life situations that are still happening today, I feel only made it a better and stronger film. Now not only was it a comic-book movie, but it was a comic-book movie with a pretty powerful underlying message.

[newwaveboy87]

i'm with Lee on this one.

[newwaveboy87]

hmmm....this is interesting. but i'm the older brother of a girl.
hmm....then again...it doesn't say ALL gay men.

Study Links Male Gays, Birth of Older Brothers
A mother's antibodies may change with each boy, raising chances the next will be homosexual.
By Karen Kaplan, Times Staff Writer
June 27, 2006

Having one or more older brothers boosts the likelihood of a boy growing up to be gay — an effect due not to social factors, but biological events that occur in their mother's womb, according to a study published today.

In an analysis of 905 men and their siblings, Canadian psychologist Anthony Bogaert found no evidence that social interactions among family members played a role in determining whether a man was gay or straight.

The only significant factor was the number of times a mother had previously given birth to boys, according to the report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The so-called fraternal birth order effect is small: Each older brother increases the chances by 33%. Assuming the base rate of homosexuality among men is 2%, it would take 11 older brothers to give the next son about a 50-50 chance of being gay.

But at a time when, according to one survey, 42% of Americans consider homosexuality to be a lifestyle choice, the study provides more evidence of biology's role in determining sexuality.

"People are coming to realize that biology — in a broad sense of the word — does play an important role," said neurobiologist Simon LeVay, who has documented anatomical differences in the brains of gay and straight men. He is not connected with the study.

A 2003 survey found that 30% of Americans believed sexual orientation was innate and 14% said it was determined by upbringing, besides the 42% who considered it a lifestyle choice. That survey was conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press and the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Polls show that people who believe sexual orientation is governed by biology tend to support gay rights, whereas those who consider it a choice don't, said Dr. Jack Drescher, who chaired the American Psychiatric Assn.'s Committee on Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues for six years.

"The question of whether it's biological is playing a large role in the culture wars," said Drescher, who was not involved in the study. "Decisions about civil rights and marriage are all argued around this issue."

In a previous study, Bogaert and his colleagues estimated that about one in seven gay men in North America — roughly 1 million people — could attribute their sexual orientation to fraternal birth order.

Bogaert, a professor of community health sciences and psychology at Brock University in Ontario, said he didn't know what biological mechanism was behind the fraternal effect, which he and a colleague first identified 10 years ago.

The leading theory is that women's bodies react to male fetuses' proteins as foreign, making antibodies to fight them, Bogaert said.

Such antibodies could affect the developing fetus, and the more times a woman has carried boys, the stronger the antibody response would be.

This theory, dubbed the maternal immunization hypothesis, was originally proposed in 1985 to explain why boys are more likely than girls to develop conditions such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, autism and dyslexia.

"We thought it might be an interesting explanation for this," Bogaert said.

Scientists have not found any antibodies that may be responsible, but Michigan State University neuroscientist Marc Breedlove is trying to identify them in pregnant mice.

"We would love to identify the protein that she is targeting, or find out which brain regions are being affected," said Breedlove, who coauthored a commentary that accompanies the study. "Right now, it's the only plausible mechanism we can think of."

Scientists have found other genetic links to sexual orientation. For example, if one identical twin is gay, there is a 52% chance that the other twin — who has the same DNA — is gay, according to a 1991 report in the Archives of General Psychiatry. Among fraternal twins, who share about half their DNA, the figure drops to 22%, and for other brothers it is 9%, according to the study.

Bogaert first reported a link between sexual orientation and older brothers in a 1996 study conducted with Ray Blanchard, who runs the Clinical Sexology Program at the Center for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto. That finding has been replicated since then in other data on men in the U.S., Canada and Europe, as well as in data collected by the pioneering sex researcher Alfred Kinsey in the 1940s and 1950s.

In the new study, Bogaert's aim was to figure out whether older brothers influence the sexuality of younger ones through nature or nurture.

If the influence were due to social factors as the boys were growing up, he reasoned, then older brothers would have an impact as long as they were reared together. On the other hand, if the explanation hinged on prenatal biological factors, the physical presence of older brothers during childhood would be irrelevant.

Bogaert collected biodemographic data on gay and straight men raised in families with various combinations of older and younger brothers and sisters. Some were full siblings, some shared only a mother or a father, some were step siblings, and some siblings were adopted.

"It doesn't seem to be that having an older brother around, regardless of whether that brother is a biological brother or a nonbiological brother, seems to have an effect on a man's sexual orientation," he said. "Biological older brothers, even ones they are not reared with, seem to be increasing the likelihood of male homosexuality."

Previous studies have looked at the impact of older sisters on the chances of a girl growing up to be a lesbian, but they found no correlation. That result bolsters the maternal immunization theory, because female fetuses do not produce proteins that would be unfamiliar to pregnant women and thus prompt the production of antibodies.

[littyx]

Yeah newwave, I posted something similar a few months ago on this thread.


Yeah, I was just learning about this on my Sociology of Human Sexuality class. Even though I knew about it before the class. Also, for every son a couple has, that son is 33% more likely to be gay. Its true, look it up. That is one thing that scientists have studied that seems to be true every time.

[newwaveboy87]

apparantly the theory has been around for years, and has just now been, well i guess you could say, proven.

[imaperson2]

i have 2 older brothers :)

[pyromaniac]

I know this doesn't relate to the topic and I understand the reasoning, but..............

That is probably the biggest reason why so many fans had a problem with the X-films. Singer let his own ego and personal desires get in the way of making a film that for all intent and purposes should have been made to please the fans (ala SM) first and NOT make some personal statement from the director. We all know X-men is essentially a social allegory--alright, enough already--we know damnit! Stop shoving it down our throats!! We wanted an X-men movie based off of the comics fans have all grown to love and cherish for their humanity and the fantastic world they live in.

In other words: Don't use something that everyone loves and was expecting a truer version of to make your own personal statement. It's wrong and it's an insult to the fans. If Singer wanted to make a personal movie that was a social allegory he could identify with, he should have used another vehicle-preferably his own and not someone elses material.

Yes there are other factors that caused the X-films to come out the way they did, but I feel Singer's ego was clearly one of the biggest factors.

Damn!! I can't believe they messed up one of the greatest comics of all time!!!

Um. Yeah.

Singer did not bring his own agenda to the fore: the fact that Xmen was already a minority had existed, all Singer had to do was bring it in the open, so to speak.

And when you say 'we all know', do you mean, just the fans or the general audience too? Because, clearly, the audience aren't fans and wouldn't know about the material nor its social relevance that parallels a society we live in.

Please.

If anything, his Xmen films have been very subtle, and they were what exactly the Xmen were about: not everyone who possess unique powers are automatically a superhero.

Shoving it down on our throats, LOL. You're the first person in six years to say that, I think. I'm not sure how you thought you're actually speaking for us, because I don't think we have been insulted. We probably have more trivial things to worry about, ie the lack of Wolverine's mask... ;)

Christ - homosexuality in the media is an opportunity that the means should exploit more, so the Xmen films were a good example particularly that they were metaphorical to begin with.

[cyclonesfury]

X3 lost the atmosphere of an oppressed minority
it didnt seem to have a a deeper meaning which people could relate to

[newwaveboy87]

are you joking me!?
the very idea of a cure for an oppressed minority is a huge deal. THAT is a deeper meaning to which people could relate and latch onto.

think about it for a moment - if there was a cure to make a homosexual person a heterosexual...would they do it? if there was a cure for one person to change their ethnic background...would they do it? religious? their gender?

[cyclonesfury]

introducing the cure was a brilliant idea but rattner did not emphasise it enough to be the core part of the film

[newwaveboy87]

....:confused:
yes it was.
Dark Phoenix was the actual subplot, and was mixed in with The Cure.

[cyclonesfury]

oops it could be worded better
yes the cure was the issue which the film revolved around but it wasnt given enough emphasis which it deserved; being the major theme of the film

[newwaveboy87]

what would you have done to give it more emphasis?

[cyclonesfury]

good question
i would have shown more characters reactions towards the cure
the only people that actually made a point about the cure was storm and rogue
if the director gave other veiws towards the cure then it would have emphasised the issues involving the cure and contributed to character development

[newwaveboy87]

i disagree with you.
Magneto's viewpoint was shown for The Cure. and all of his followers were in agreement.
Xaiver's point of view was shown - it is a matter of choice for a mutant to make and it must be respected as such. as was Beast's - while it's hard for him to be a mutant and look like how he does, he thinks taking the cure isn't a coward's way out and that it's a matter of choice. Iceman's was shown indirectly by telling Rogue that her curing herlsef wasn't what he wanted. Angel's was shown by his escaping his father's forced curing and flying away from him.

the characters all had moments to show their opinions about the cure.

[cyclonesfury]

they may have had moments but IMO they were too breif which made the plot seem shallow

[newwaveboy87]

i think they worked fine. sure, they could've been longer, but the decision was made to make the movie an hour and forty minutes. for the time frame they managed to get all of the character's opinions known and moved on.

you also have to remember - the X-Men franchise is two-folded. it is both a housing of ideas and analogies for modern struggles of minorities and an action/adventure franchise. a balance needs to happen. i think they found a nice one in XTLS.

[cyclonesfury]

i think the plot was compromised by the action

[newwaveboy87]

i think the action was mixed in really well.
Magneto's entire plan was to destroy the cure, those who made - including Leech, and any mutant who stood in his way.

the X-Men naturally had to stop him.

besides, this was the war that had been talked about since X1. action was needed. although, i'm not going to lie...the movie could've used an extra 20 minutes for a few slower paced scenes.

[cyclonesfury]

just a few questions i know it probably doesnt belong in this thread but...
is x men post modernist?
and does it show signs of the human condition?

[cyclonesfury]

content was good but its the way they presented it

[newwaveboy87]

ah well...can't please everybody.


X-Men does show signs of the human condition. several plot lines have revolved around acceptance, tolerance, love, sacrifice, betrayal, redemption, love, hate, racism, and war.

which version of X-Men are talking about being post-modern? comics? films?

[cyclonesfury]

just the whole thing in general

[newwaveboy87]

ummm....i wouldn't consider comics to be post-modern. i'd consider them to be a form of pop art i suppose.
they're not elitist, they're mass produced, and they reflect the current culture.

[cyclonesfury]

cant current issues be reflected upon through a postmodernist perspective

[cyclonesfury]

current issues-- i mean it as current issues in society

[newwaveboy87]

they can.
but post-modernist is such a vague term and usually just means "weird for the sake of weird." post-modernist also has people covering buildings up in giant cloth material and calling it art.

i think pop art is the best description of a comic book.

[cyclonesfury]

but then it wouldnt be called modernist either

[squeekness]

I thought X3 showed the many perspectives that even a "gay" cure would bring -- Magneto violently against it, Wolverine saying do it only if that's what YOU want, Rogue wanting the cure and taking it, and Worthington Sr almost forcing his son to take it. Seems like they covered all the bases pretty well to me....

[cyclonesfury]

IMO they didnt seem to cover it pretty well to an emotional level

[squeekness]

I don't know that that was the movie's intent. I think it was tossed out there for us to discuss outside on the way home. :)

[cyclonesfury]

anyway who do u think is the hottest x man

[ico]

Wow, this conversation just took a huge turn from serious and deep to playful lol

As to what you guys were talking about before, the only one thing I would say was wrong with X3 was the fact that they tried to cram to potential monumental storylines together into one short movie.

imo, the Phoenix saga and the Cure storyline should've been two different movies. Maybe Phoenix saga first, and her destroying loadsa stuff a la finalé of X3, and then her death, and hence her actions caused the Government to go into a terrified frenzy and come up with the cure and Sentinels, etc.

As for hottest X-Man. Hmmmm. I think as of right now, I would say Iceman.

[cyclonesfury]

id put cyclops first then iceman then poitr

[squeekness]

What does the hottest X-men have to do with homosexuality? *laughs* This conversation should be moved to the Off topic thread. :)

[DarknessOfDeath]

X-Women

Jean Grey/Phoenix, Kitty Pryde/Shadowcat, Dr. Moira McTaggert

X-Men

Scott Summers/Cyclops, Bobby/Iceman and Logan/Wolverine

[newwaveboy87]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060710/ts_nm/rights_gays_massachusetts_dc

Gay marriage fights intensify
By Jason Szep
Mon Jul 10, 6:47 PM ET



BOSTON (Reuters) - Massachusetts' highest court ruled on Monday that voters could decide whether to ban gay marriage in the first and only state to legalize it, while a California court weighed the constitutionality of such a ban.

The latest developments in the state-by-state battle over homosexual unions came four days after two major legal setbacks for backers of same-sex marriage in New York and Georgia and reflect entrenched divisions on the issue nationwide.

The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court's unanimous ruling frees state lawmakers to vote on a constitutional amendment on Wednesday that would ban both gay marriage and civil unions.

If 50 lawmakers in the state's 200-member Legislature approve the measure, it goes to a second legislative vote in 2007. If it clears that hurdle, it will be added to a 2008 ballot for a popular vote.

"We're elated," said Kristian Mineau, president of the Massachusetts Family Institute, a conservative Christian organization. "We've got a lot of momentum going."

Despite their legal ruling, two Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court justices cautioned that even if voters approve a ban on gay marriage, such a law would look "starkly out of place" in the state constitution and could cause the court to revisit the issue.

In a concurring opinion, Justices John Greaney and Roderick Ireland said same-sex marriage may be irreversible in Massachusetts because it was now part of the "fabric of the equality and liberty" guaranteed by the state constitution.

"The only effect of a positive vote will be to make same-sex couples, and their families, unequal to everyone else; this is discrimination in its rawest form," they said.

CALIFORNIA WEIGHS SIX CASES

In 2003, Massachusetts' Supreme Judicial Court ruled that a ban on gay marriage was unconstitutional, paving the way for America's first same-sex marriages the following year. More than 8,000 gay and lesbian couples have since wed.

Connecticut and Vermont allow same-sex civil unions, while California, Hawaii, Maine, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. offer gay and lesbian couples some legal rights as partners. But these steps have provoked an angry backlash from voters elsewhere in the nation.

Marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman in at least 41 states and voters in at least 18 have overwhelmingly approved "defense of marriage" amendments to their state constitutions. Several more states will vote on the issue in November.

Last week, Georgia's Supreme Court unanimously reaffirmed a state ban on same-sex marriage and New York's Court of Appeals ruled that denying same-sex couples the right to marry does not violate the state constitution.

The legal fight over marriage intensified in California on Monday as its Court of Appeal weighed six cases on whether its state constitution, which bars discrimination, can exclude same-sex couples from marriage.

"I would not be surprised if the Court of the Appeal would say ... we should have same-sex marriage," said David Levine, a law professor at University of California, Hastings College.

[commento]

As much as I hope the fight continues to allow gays the same rights as others. I still think lets all get together and find somewhere just for us.

Yeah I know new york, and California come close:) I really am joking but it would be cool if it ever happend, but what would it be called?

[DarknessOfDeath]

Happy Land :)

[bengan]

As much as I hope the fight continues to allow gays the same rights as others. I still think lets all get together and find somewhere just for us.

Yeah I know new york, and California come close:) I really am joking but it would be cool if it ever happend, but what would it be called?
No thats the dummest idea ever. Putting people together just becuse they havethe same skincolour, religion or sexuality is just a very stupid idea. Look at history and you will see what I mean. sure to be gay and open i soem part of this world is really hard to do. But does that mean that a person should stop trying? NO! Every person in this world should feel safe when he/she express their religion, walk on a street and have a different outfit/colour/gender then the majority or simply show that they are in love. Thats a thing that we, the modern world shoule and would be able to do.

[newwaveboy87]

No thats the dummest idea ever. Putting people together just becuse they havethe same skincolour, religion or sexuality is just a very stupid idea. Look at history and you will see what I mean. sure to be gay and open i soem part of this world is really hard to do. But does that mean that a person should stop trying? NO! Every person in this world should feel safe when he/she express their religion, walk on a street and have a different outfit/colour/gender then the majority or simply show that they are in love. Thats a thing that we, the modern world shoule and would be able to do.
PRECISELY!
separatism is not the answer, nor is it a very good idea.

[bengan]

Thanks for cheering me up over at Zu, NWB.:O Just look at the war over at Jordain(sp??) and you will get the point.

[newwaveboy87]

cheering you up over at what now?

[cyclonesfury]

wow...love can become so political

[littyx]

PRECISELY!
separatism is not the answer, nor is it a very good idea.
Well, it may seem like an "idea" to you guys, buts its already the truth. Go to any city and you have your very own "gay town". In Los Angeles, its West Hollywood. I have many friends that live there. Its kind of like living in this bubble. Where you feel comfortable walking down the street, or holding your boyfriends hand. But in a sad way, it's almost like a fake town. Where once you step out of it, your faced with the harsh reality's of the rest of the world.

[pyromaniac]

Wow, this conversation just took a huge turn from serious and deep to playful lol

As to what you guys were talking about before, the only one thing I would say was wrong with X3 was the fact that they tried to cram to potential monumental storylines together into one short movie.


You just answered the question for yourself.

Of course - it would have reduced the metaphorical meaning, subtext and that multilayered narrative that usually makes the story a little more rich and insightful.

Of course it would have made Angel's debut a moot point, and that the arcs of the new and old characters be altered to revolve around Dark Phoenix.

You're not thinking on a cinematic thematic level.

[newwaveboy87]

Well, it may seem like an "idea" to you guys, buts its already the truth. Go to any city and you have your very own "gay town". In Los Angeles, its West Hollywood. I have many friends that live there. Its kind of like living in this bubble. Where you feel comfortable walking down the street, or holding your boyfriends hand. But in a sad way, it's almost like a fake town. Where once you step out of it, your faced with the harsh reality's of the rest of the world.
unless you don't watch the news, or don't know any heterosexuals living in West Hollywood - the harsh reality is everywhere. the entire populations in this towns aren't made up of homosexuals. yes, there is a large population there, but it's not all the population which is what he was talking about. THAT would've been a terrible idea.

these towns with high populations of homosexuals are more similar to a Chinatown or a Little Italy. a high population of one group does live in the area, but it's not the complete population.

there's a difference. so, it's not a reality...yet. and hopefully, never will be.

[cyclonesfury]

segregation would make integration difficult

[Generation Lee]

As much as I hope the fight continues to allow gays the same rights as others. I still think lets all get together and find somewhere just for us.

Yeah I know new york, and California come close:) I really am joking but it would be cool if it ever happend, but what would it be called?

Over the rainbow lol. Anyway as someone who lives in the North of Ireland trust me when I say this is a really bad idea.

[imaperson2]

unless you don't watch the news, or don't know any heterosexuals living in West Hollywood - the harsh reality is everywhere. the entire populations in this towns aren't made up of homosexuals. yes, there is a large population there, but it's not all the population which is what he was talking about. THAT would've been a terrible idea.

these towns with high populations of homosexuals are more similar to a Chinatown or a Little Italy. a high population of one group does live in the area, but it's not the complete population.

there's a difference. so, it's not a reality...yet. and hopefully, never will be.
my uncle/godfather lives in west hollywood!!(yes...he's gay). i think its pretty cool having a gay uncle. do any of you have gay relatives?

[ico]

I don't have any gay relatives. I'm the only gay in the family. But pretty soon, I'll probably be a gay uncle to somebody! ;)

[commento]

No thats the dummest idea ever. Putting people together just becuse they havethe same skincolour, religion or sexuality is just a very stupid idea. Look at history and you will see what I mean. sure to be gay and open i soem part of this world is really hard to do. But does that mean that a person should stop trying? NO! Every person in this world should feel safe when he/she express their religion, walk on a street and have a different outfit/colour/gender then the majority or simply show that they are in love. Thats a thing that we, the modern world shoule and would be able to do.

Now you could have said that a bit better? I didn't say anything about putting people together because they are the same. What I said was just a silly thought. I think it is important to fight for what is right but I also think life would be easier to have a place where gays can be gays. I applaude each and everyone of the people who have found for the most part peaceful ways of changing peoples minds and the rules of the land.

Yet at times I also feel that if someone is ignorant and not willing to open their mind, it is not my job to change their mind for them.

[newwaveboy87]

I don't have any gay relatives. I'm the only gay in the family. But pretty soon, I'll probably be a gay uncle to somebody! ;)
how exciting! :)

[newwaveboy87]

Yet at times I also feel that if someone is ignorant and not willing to open their mind, it is not my job to change their mind for them.
then who's job is it?

[imaperson2]

so we should have known....but lance bass just revealed that he is gay in PEOPLE magazine.

[ico]

I knida new months and months ago. Proof that he has been dating that Reichen guy has been floating around for months and months.

[imaperson2]

yeah that Reichen guy is pretty damn sexy.

[newwaveboy87]

i knew Lance Bass was gay YEARS ago. always had a hunch he was.
i think he's cute. :O

[bengan]

Sorry guys ive been away but who is lance bass and why are we talking about him?

[LEX]

Sorry guys ive been away but who is lance bass and why are we talking about him?
He used to be in this boy band called N sync. Google Image search him. You'll get bunch of pics of him.

[newwaveboy87]

just go to Yahoo.com

it's the main news story

[bengan]

ooo him..nah thats not news

[newwaveboy87]

it's always news when an American celebrity comes out.
there's so few that do.

[bengan]

really? but you must be a fool to think that not a lot of the celebs are gay. 10 % of the us are homo.


(pitty me)

[newwaveboy87]

i know there are a lot of celebrity homos, but most of them don't say anything until their career is over. so for Lance to come out while he still has some fame is pretty big.

[bengan]

But he was in THE BOYBAND N sync, doesnt that mean thta his career is over?

[newwaveboy87]

not really, he still shows up on TV and still makes news prior to his coming out.

other gay musicians include:
Melissa Etheridge
Joan Jett
KD Lang
lead singer of Kittie
George Michael
Elton John

[commento]

Newwavboy87,



It was just a thought, a dream, a wish I had and I really don't believe I am the only one who has had such a thought yet maybe others would have been able to have said it better.

I realize bengan's first Lauage may not be "english" but I think the way he put me down for my comment was uncalled for! Does he? she? really think I was serious first off where would we go? Does anyone really think there could be a civilization formed of only gays? Yeah as much as I think it would be a dream come true it, we would need our own landmass, our own air force, military, and whatever else one can think that a civilization of only gays would need to exist:)

Second bengan said "Putting people together just becuse they have the same skincolour, religion or sexuality is just a very stupid idea"

Now I don't know if bengan meant this as a side note to my comment but it sounded as if bengan was under then impression that I was a proponent of such a thing happening. Which is just not the case.

"Look at history and you will see what I mean."

Now I really can't say that I can name any of the times which prove what he means but as an american I would hope I would know what good comes from having all kinds of people. I am under the impression that america is what it has become mostly because of all the different people that have come to america. One only needs to look at inventions to see that we would not have any of the luxuries we have today if it wasn't for different kinds of people and for the fact that they came together.


then who's job is it?

Again I think I am being misunderstood. I believe it is everyone's job if they want change which I of course do! otherwise one really can't blame others for what happens to them at certain times. Yet, I also believe that I and others I would hope are not going to spend their whole time trying to change someone's mind who is not willing to open their mind.

Maybe you are not one to do so but if I come across someone who does not want to know me because I am gay or have the wrong clothes, or etc. I am not going to do everything in my power to make this person like me. Same with some fights I am one to walk away rather than try to prove that I am right or a man! Sometimes more bad than good can come from going too far with some people.

Thanks.

[cyclonesfury]

darren hayes is gay

[newwaveboy87]

....duh

[bengan]

I realize bengan's first Lauage may not be "english" but I think the way he put me down for my comment was uncalled for!
Im sorry if I did upset you. I didnt say that you was stupid, just that I dont like the idea of a onething nation. Before i wrote that post I had a similar conversation with another person and I was still kinda angry. And what do you mean with "first language may not be english"? Sure Im swedish and my English might not be perfect, but Im sure that people can understand what I say. Even if I did a spelling misstake, that shouldnt make my text unclear.

Does he? she?
He, I got a penis.


Yeah as much as I think it would be a dream come true it, we would need our own landmass, our own air force, military, and whatever else one can think that a civilization of only gays would need to exist:)

What would happend to the children? Cuz, sexual disposition dont go down from father to child/mother to child. And if the straight people did stay wouldnt they become the oddballs and hated? And if they was allow to stay in this country, it wouldnt be a onething nation.

I DONT SAY THAT YOU SAID THIS, ITS JUST A QUESTION.

Now I really can't say that I can name any of the times which prove what he means but as an american I would hope I would know what good comes from having all kinds of people. I am under the impression that america is what it has become mostly because of all the different people that have come to america. One only needs to look at inventions to see that we would not have any of the luxuries we have today if it wasn't for different kinds of people and for the fact that they came together.
Israel

[ico]

not really, he still shows up on TV and still makes news prior to his coming out.

other gay musicians include:
Melissa Etheridge
Joan Jett
KD Lang
lead singer of Kittie
George Michael
Elton John

I didn't know Joan Jett was gay! Where have I been?!?!?!:eek:

[newwaveboy87]

you didnt!? but it seems so obvious.
:confused:

[imaperson2]

i like your avvy newwave! haha.

[LEX]

i like your avvy newwave! haha.
He has used that one before. My fave avvy out of the bunch. That nerd boy is adorable. Has he a name, Jason? :)

[newwaveboy87]

damned if i know what his name is.
my favorite avvy of the bunch is the Vader one. oh how i love it.

[LEX]

"Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies."

That was funny one. Lol.

[newwaveboy87]

some people didn't appreciate the humor

[commento]

Im sorry if I did upset you. I didnt say that you was stupid, just that I dont like the idea of a onething nation. Before i wrote that post I had a similar conversation with another person and I was still kinda angry. And what do you mean with "first language may not be english"? Sure Im swedish and my English might not be perfect, but Im sure that people can understand what I say. Even if I did a spelling misstake, that shouldnt make my text unclear

Okay thanks. now about the language comment I meant that this might be why you thought I was saying that we should segregate. When I was just making a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Plus I want to say I have never made fun of someone or judged someone because of their english not being perfect. Since I myself have very bad spelling and grammar. So in noway was I trying to point out any spelling mistakes or trying to say that your too hard to understand.

What would happend to the children? Cuz, sexual disposition dont go down from father to child/mother to child. And if the straight people did stay wouldnt they become the oddballs and hated? And if they was allow to stay in this country, it wouldnt be a onething nation.

(Only answering your question not saying this is what would happen or what we would do) Well If I am understanding you I would think that any children that were born would be less likely to have hatetred towards a group of people that they have been brought up by and have had contact with.

Since I have never met anyone who has gay parents and dislikes their parents for being gay I don't know how often this would happen. Also If they didn't like being a part of let's say Happy land then they would most likely not live in Happy land. Sure I guess there could be the chance of some gays disliking the straight people but I don't really think there are gays who go straight bashing are there?

If straight people stayed in happy land it wouldn't be a onething nation which is in my mind is okay since the point of happy land in my mind was not to be an only gay nation or state it was only to be a place were gays could not be legaly discriminated against.

I DONT SAY THAT YOU SAID THIS, ITS JUST A QUESTION.


He, I got a penis.Okay I will take your word for it. I just didn't bother to look up your profile that's all:)

Israel Okay I'll have to make sure to read about this, Thanks

[newwaveboy87]

QUEERLY BELOVED
Same-sex marriage
on rocks with voters
20 out of 20 times, Americans choose
to protect institution from changes

Posted: July 27, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com


Yesterday's stunning decision by Washington's Supreme Court upholding traditional marriage is not the only setback dogging same-sex marriage advocates.

In fact, 20 out of the 20 times it has come before voters, Americans have chosen to protect by constitutional amendment the idea of limiting marriage to one man and one woman.

So this year as it's brought before voters in another six – or eight – states, what do opponents plan to do to get their first single?

Obfuscate.

"The best that they (traditional marriage opponents) can do is confuse the issue," States Issues Analyst Mona Passignano, of the Colorado Springs-based Focus on the Family Action, told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive look-ahead at this fall's election season.

"What they're running up against is that people just want traditional marriage protected," she said.

"We have six states that will have marriage amendments on their ballot (in 2006)," Passignano said, identifying them as Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia and Wisconsin.

Two more, Arizona and Colorado, still have yet to reach either deadlines for turning in petition signatures or decisions for whether enough signatures have been turned in. Arizona's marriage supporters turned in 300,000 names, for a requirement of 184,000, but they still are being verified. In Colorado, the deadline to turn in names is Aug. 7, and 68,000 verified names are needed, she said.

"The atmosphere (around the issues) right now is actually positive," she said. "But you can expect that to change in October." Then, the campaigning will get confusing.

Colorado's potential battle already is typical of what she expects.

There probably will be four ballot initiatives on the fall Colorado ballot addressing marriage or civil unions and the like. One would think that would be confusing, and Passignano said that's the plan.

"The campaign in Colorado already is to confuse the voters. The more confusion, the better the chance (for same-sex marriage being endorsed)," she said. "It's not exactly a new campaign, it's exactly the strategy that unfolded in Texas last year."

During that battle, same-sex marriage supporters actually "tried to get people to vote against the marriage amendment by pretending they were from the attorney general's office and telling people they were going to nullify actual marriages with their vote," Passignano said. Senior citizens, especially, were targeted.

She said she took calls in her office at Focus Action from Texans who would hesitate. "I think I voted the wrong way," they would tell her. "Yes, you did," she told them.

The salvation of the Texas amendment came from Christian pastors, she said.

"What's going to be the key is church participation," she said. "The IRS has said pastors have the right to talk about that, despite what we commonly hear, because it is a nonpartisan ballot issue. Pastors can talk about it all they want.

"Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you checked your rights at the door," she said.

Focus Action is a cultural action organization that is separate from Focus on the Family, the Christian broadcasting, publishing and ministry powerhouse. It was set up for Christians to have a platform for informing and rallying about moral issues.

Baptist Press earlier had cited a homosexual publication's report about a multi-point plan devised by the Democratic National Committee to combat the marriage protection plans.

Damien LaVera, a spokesman for the DNC told Baptist Press the committee opposes Republican efforts to use the issue to get voters to ballot boxes. But he didn't confirm or deny the homosexual publication's report about a plan that calls for labeling such initiatives "divisive" and training operatives in all 50 states how to campaign against them.

That report also said the plan included working with a homosexual advocacy group and campaign organizations in each state fighting marriage protection plans.

During 2005, Texas and Kansas voters approved marriage protection amendments, and in the sweep of the 2004 vote, 13 states took the same action, including voters in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, Montana, Oklahoma, North Dakota, Utah, Michigan, Ohio and Oregon who did so on the same night. Five states had done so in earlier elections and another two dozen states have taken the same action, but by statute, not constitutional amendment.

Representatives are especially tenacious in pursuing this particular issue, too. In Wisconsin state lawmakers went through the process a second time after first passing a Defense of Marriage law in 2003, only to see Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle veto it. The second time around, for this year's election, they pursued the constitutional amendment process, which does not require a governor's signature.

State lawmakers in Washington also battled back to overturn a veto by Gov. Gary Locke in their pursuit of their 1998 Defense of Marriage Act, which limits marriages to couples of one man and one woman.

That battle was crowned with victory this week when the state's Supreme Court affirmed its constitutionality. The court noted that there may be homosexual weddings at some point in the future, but it will be because people have brought it about, not because of a judicial opinion.

The underlying conclusion of the Washington state court was that the Legislature had a legitimate interest in protecting traditional marriage and that action did not violate equal protection and other laws.

Even in Massachusetts, where the state's highest court created a right to homosexual marriage to become the only state ever to recognize such situations, supporters have collected 170,000 signatures and court approval and hope to have a marriage amendment on the ballot in 2008.

One defeat for the traditional marriage supporters came in June in the Senate, which failed to endorse a change in the U.S. Constitution limiting marriage to one man and one woman. But that wasn't even on an up-or-down vote; only a procedural move.

It is "inconceivable" the U.S. Senate refused to even vote, said Jan LaRue, chief counsel of Concerned Women for America.

"If the founders could have imagined a time when same-sex 'marriage' would be forced upon the people by judicial fiat, they would have established a uniform rule of marriage in the Constitution just as they did for naturalization and bankruptcy," she said.

However, just in the past few weeks, other courts in Georgia, Nebraska, Tennessee and New York have endorsed the legality of protecting marriage.
http://family.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/07/27/same-sex-marriage-on-rocks-with-voters/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wnd.com%2Fnews%2Farticle.asp %3FARTICLE_ID%3D51193&frame=true

[cyclonesfury]

that sucks

[bengan]

Hey its pride in stockholm(capital os sweden....) right now and I thought that I would post a link with pictures. Maybe you guys will fall in love with a swede who knows?:O

OOOO halfnaked swedish guys (http://blogg.aftonbladet.se/3936)

Does mutants have something like this in the 616-world, what do you think? And, if I liked a girl at work and I quit on sunday should I tell her OR at least ask for her msn? Just some lovehelp, please?:confused:

[newwaveboy87]

to quote The Producers:
"God bless Sweden."

http://bloggbilder.aftonbladet.se/images/4321/img_44d4c46440d61.jpg
can i put him on a hook and play with him? :( :up:

and bengan, you're so obviously a bisexual. it's not even funny.

[bengan]

to quote The Producers:
"God bless Sweden."

http://bloggbilder.aftonbladet.se/images/4321/img_44d4c46440d61.jpg
can i put him on a hook and play with him? :( :up:

and bengan, you're so obviously a bisexual. it's not even funny.
Really...that guy? And I think its funny. Well not HAHA funny, but quite funny.

[newwaveboy87]

but, you don't deny it.
ha - i knew it.

you always smelt of a homosexual.

[newwaveboy87]

effin Hype decided to double post my repsonse. grrr. :mad:

[cyclonesfury]

homosexuals have a smell now

[newwaveboy87]

they always have. :confused:
how do you think we sense each other's presence?

[newwaveboy87]

so...i found all of this on a website which promotes spiritual guidance for people seeking a path to God. it's quite interesting to read and i posted only the highlights, for me personally. you may find what every person who's letter was posted to be of more interest, but more for me these were the best parts to read - both positive and negative. ENJOY!

http://explorefaith.org/questions/accepting.html

Among us, different people found different kinds of new information important to us. It was important to me to learn that sexual orientation is not a choice. There is evidence pointing to a genetic origin; there is some other evidence of environmental influences. But science was pretty clear that our sexual orientation is set at an early age, before age three. The other information that seemed important to me at the time was evidence that gay people are just as sane and normal (or crazy) as the general population. They are not somehow inferior, immature, or unfinished.

My friend from Pennsylvania couldn't care less about the science. The important point for him was looking at the scripture again and seeing that there is nothing that truly addresses sexual orientation, but that there are major Biblical themes about liberation from bondage and about faithfulness in relationships. My friend from Maine said none of that stuff was what mattered. He believed in Tim. Tim was authentic; Tim was good; Tim was a holy person. That was enough for him. All of us came to the same conclusion traveling down different paths -- gay and lesbian people should be held to the same ethical standards as the rest of us and should be fully included in the life of the church and society.

As with people in diverse denominations, I have struggled with this issue. I wish I had a different opinion because everything would be so much easier. I am an Episcopalian. At this point in my own understanding, I cannot reconcile what seem to me to be clear teachings in scripture against homosexuality and the Episcopal Church's advocacy of homosexual behavior by confirming an openly gay bishop. This opinion will probably be offensive to my friends who are homosexual or who have a different opinion from my own.

Tolerance is one of the hallmarks of the Episcopal Church and it is one of the many reasons that I feel at home there. Tolerance is not the same thing as advocacy. There is all the difference in the world in embracing a struggling sinner who is journeying from darkness into light and in becoming an advocate for their actions

As with many controversial issues, I can only speak for myself. While many Christians may have problems with various aspects of homosexuality, I believe that the overriding theological perspective is one that was so inspiring as former Presiding Bishop Edmund Browning's "signature line": "there are no outcasts." For me, that is the headline and the bottom line to the life of a Christian. Not one of us has the authority or the unblemished life with which to declare that someone else ought to be left out of anything.

What I regret is not so much the decision to recognize an openly gay bishop itself but the distraction from this core mission. It seems to me that too many people are willing to sacrifice the greater good of the church for a principle where reasonable, faithful people can disagree. The church and its members are not prepared theologically to make such a momentous decision. There is too much disagreement, confusion, and division.

In addition, I believe that Jesus teaches us to love and respect all people, and to accept them as full members of the church. Now the church is greatly agitated over the questions of same-sex marriage and ordination of gay and lesbian clergy. It therefore seems necessary to me for us to continue to develop ways to allow persons to form stable relationships (families) based on mutual love, respect, and commitment to each other, such relationships being blessed and supported by their faith communities. So I think we need to work toward a way to sacramentally bless these unions.

The church remains constant in teaching the two great commandments of loving the Lord with all of your heart, mind and soul and in loving your neighbor as yourself. These commandments don't ask us to love only our white neighbor, or our heterosexual neighbor, or our neighbor who thinks as we do.

[Specter313]

Maybe Jason will get a kick out of this:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2728/pardonmyplanetah0.gif

[newwaveboy87]

HAHA!
you know me so well. :o

[bengan]

homosexuals have a smell now
Yea, I think its flower arrangements and old Madonna albums. Damn I need to change deoderant....

[Chris Wallace]

The X-Men supposedly is an allegory that symbolises the struggle of minority groups in general. This includes gay people. But I don't know what minority groups the creators had in mind. They may not have been thinking specifically of gay people. There was McCarthyism in the USA - McCarthyism took place during a period of intense suspicion in the United States primarily from 1950 to 1954, when the US government was actively countering American Communist Party subversion, its leadership, and others suspected of being Communists or Communist sympathizers. During this period people from all walks of life became the subject of aggressive "witch-hunts," often based on inconclusive or questionable evidence.

And of course there was the racist events in the USA too. And the civil rights movement that led to the protests led by Martin Luther King and the passing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. It was in 1963, the year the X-Men was first published, that Martin Luther King said: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C. (28 August 1963).

During the 60s there was also a rising gay rights movement in the USA that led to the Stonewall Riots of 1969.

So the X-Men was created in a time where social/political minority groups - in particular blacks, gays and Communists - were fighting for their rights in a time of persecution. Although Communists are not born different - it's a political choice - they were part of this climate of discrimination, fear and suspicion.

In the X-Men universe, the scientific term mutants is applied to those born with unusual abilities (and/or appearances) just as many people believe there is a 'gay gene', although I don't know whether there were strong scientific thoughts about a gay gene at the time the X-Men was first created.

The persecution element and the fight for rights is present in the comics in a very powerful sense, and has been reinforced by the movies. The movies contain what could be interpreted as several ideas that have particular resonance with gay people - running away from home (Rogue), the search for true identity (Wolverine), fear of what normal people might think (Storm, in her conversation with the dying Senator Kelly), fear of taking part in normal life because they may be shunned or bullied (Mystique in her conversation with Kelly on the helicopter). And Magneto's Jewish/gipsy parents being led to the gas chamber (as gay people also were). Also, Iceman's 'coming out' scene with his parents in X2 has been seen by many as having a strong gay subtext.

Bryan Singer - who is gay - was attracted to the movies by the idea of persecuted minorities. He is also Jewish and as an adopted child is also searching for his true identity -- which is why he focused on, and identified with, Wolverine in particular.

Ian McKellen was attracted to the X-Men movies by its symbolism for struggling minorities. And Singer said he would often direct McKellen with a gay reference. In an interview in Total Film magazine (issue 44, September 2000), Singer was asked how he got the actors to find their characters (they were not allowed to read the comics), and he responded: "You find tricks and ways of getting them to speak, or intellectually: 'Look, Ian, this is a society of people who want to wipe out homosexuals. What do you feel about that?' There's ways to do it."

In the same interview, Singer says: "The idea about reluctant superheroes, born the way they are, searching for acceptance in a world that hates and fears them, it's interesting. It's what every adolescent experiences at one point or another. It's what I experience every day."

Producer Lauren Schuler Donner said in the same magazine article: "Thematically there's a lot to relate to. It's about oppression. It's about prejudice, it could be the Jews in World War Two, it could be gay people."That's pretty much how I see it; X-Men reflects intolerance & prejudice in general, not any particular group that's targeted.

[newwaveboy87]

Yea, I think its flower arrangements and old Madonna albums. Damn I need to change deoderant....
i smell like the Like a Prayer album. :D

[storm-within]

I am also gay. =] but i'm not typically straight acting or the stereypical gay persona, but my voice is kind of feminine so people always presumed i was gay because of that and because i relate better to girls than guys, so all my friends at high school were girls. then when people eventually found out i was gay the treated me much worse. 1 thing i find mnakes me angry is school anti-bullying policies. sure they crackdown on racism these days alot more vigilantly but they don't do much when it comes to homophobic discrimination. i am proud of my sexuality, but i often do fear showing it openly because i'm not a a strong guy, so if someone attacked me or whatever i wouldn't have much luck defending myself, and after my bf got beaten up when i was 16 by bullies from my school just cos i was walking with him, we weren't even showing any sort of affection, i worry about my bfs getting hurt.
i think its sad that so many people just clsoe their minds off to it, or see it as an illness.
its really nice to see other homosexual people on this forum talking maturely about this and heterosexual talking about it without getting all homophobic about it.
Since i was little i have identified with X-men and i'm happy that people see the relation and X-men was created to tell stories relating to predjudice and discrimination. i think its great that there are comicslike X-men that minority groupd can relate to.
anyway i've typed alot, but just thought i would post on here. sorry for the lecture.

[squeekness]

Welcome to the board, Storm-within, and have no fear, you are welcome to rant here as much as you like. It's what we are here for. :)

[storm-within]

Welcome to the board, Storm-within, and have no fear, you are welcome to rant here as much as you like. It's what we are here for. :)
Thanx Squeekness ^^ its nice to be here.
i better get to work on my posts so i can hav an avatar lol

[squeekness]

There is serious talk that avitar priviliges will soon be given to us by join dates rather than post count so don't get too worked up about your post count. You can read about it here: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246546

Meanwhile, feel free to join us in the off topic chat thread in the X-World forum and the Gamma Lounge in Communities. :)

[newwaveboy87]

Thanx Squeekness ^^ its nice to be here.
i better get to work on my posts so i can hav an avatar lol
hi, you're really cute.
welcome to the thread Dani. :)

[Valechan]

Hi guys, long time no post :p. Anyway I just did this the other day and thought you might get a laugh or two from it :p.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3696&stc=1&d=1156986003

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3697&stc=1&d=1156986044

[newwaveboy87]

so wrong...yet....so funny :(

[bengan]

Hi guys, long time no post :p. Anyway I just did this the other day and thought you might get a laugh or two from it :p.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3696&stc=1&d=1156986003

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3697&stc=1&d=1156986044
Thats is sooo out of character (and yes I know its a fake).

[Valechan]

Thats is sooo out of character (and yes I know its a fake).

That's why its funny :p I love the "male bonding" part, I laughed my butt off writing it.

[newwaveboy87]

www.afterellen.com

www.afterelton.com

[Pussy Galore]

Cannonball is hot...for a drawing.

[newwaveboy87]

Brad Pitt: I'll marry when everyone can
NEW YORK - Brad Pitt, ever the social activist, says he won't be marrying Angelina Jolie until the restrictions on who can marry whom are dropped.


"Angie and I will consider tying the knot when everyone else in the country who wants to be married is legally able," the 42-year-old actor reveals in Esquire magazine's October issue, on newsstands Sept. 19.

In the article he reflects on "fifteen things I think everyone should know."

Though Shiloh, the world-famous daughter of Pitt and girlfriend/earth mother Angelina Jolie, hogged much attention upon her birth in May, Pitt says he "cannot imagine life" without adopted children, Maddox, 5, and Zahara, 1.

"They're as much of my blood as any natural born, and I'm theirs," says Pitt. "That's all I can say about it. I can't live without them. So: Anyone considering (adoption), that's my vote."

Pitt, who plays a world traveler in the upcoming drama "Babel," subscribes to a laid-back parenting style.

"I try not to stifle them in any way," he says. "If it's not hurting anyone, I want them to be able to explore. Sometimes that means they're quite rambunctious."

Lucky kids.

"I feel it's really important to have that time to sit and talk to them," he continues. "I really like that last minute before they fade off. And always give them a heads-up before you jerk them out of something. You need to tell them, like, `You have three more minutes.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060908/ap_en_mo/people_brad_pitt

cool. :) :up:

[bengan]

hey guys(and gals...:huh: ), guess what I just found out? Somebody likes my and i like that person back. Its someone that I never ever thought I would like...:wow: A GUY:wow: and it feels really wierd. Well, I guess Im a bisexual. I also have a girl that I like and she likes me and we just started to date and I have nooo idea who to chose.But when I first entered this forum I thought I was straight so dont come nagging on my back....u madona lovers:whatever: .

[newwaveboy87]

i always knew you were bi...:huh:
am i supposed to be shocked by this??

:p

[cyclonesfury]

lol bisexuality doesnt exist.... its just part of the denial phase

[JustABill]

Iono, bout that cyclone. I've actually met some god honest straight up bisexuals. But I will admit when I was first discovering my sexuality, I claimed to be bisexual, till eventually my friends were all ''Sweetie, you're gay."

[squeekness]

So you let your friends decide for you? Seems to me you should have decided that for yourself and not cared what anyone thought.

[bengan]

lol bisexuality doesnt exist.... its just part of the denial phase
OMG; I doesnt exist. What will I do with my life right now:csad: :csad: .
I live my life and I can tell u that Im attracted to both girls and boys, but actually not so many boys.

whoops I gotta go now, my gau side is calling for me...

tata

[newwaveboy87]

lol bisexuality doesnt exist.... its just part of the denial phase
be nice :o

[JustABill]

So you let your friends decide for you? Seems to me you should have decided that for yourself and not cared what anyone thought.
No, I eventually myself noticed that I was attracted to far more guys, and while I'd look at a girl and say, she's hot. I had no desire to ravage her body or do sexual things to it.

[squeekness]

No, I eventually myself noticed that I was attracted to far more guys, and while I'd look at a girl and say, she's hot. I had no desire to ravage her body or do sexual things to it.Okay. :) I just hate to see folks get bullied into being something they ar not, or something they aren't sure about themselves.

[newwaveboy87]

it works like this, your friends and everyone else ALWAYS know before you do

[squeekness]

How can anyone on the outside really know what's going on in your head? No one will ever know you like you know yourself. Just becuase they say something doesn't always make it right. :)

[newwaveboy87]

homosexuality is easily detectable.
people will always know before you, yourself know.

don't ask me how it works, but people do.

kinda like how you can tell a lot about a kid by how they play. i never really did sports, i've always been the artsy kid.

[squeekness]

Me, too, LOL, but I'm not gay. There must be other criteria. I do know that some gay males are more feminine than others, but there are what I call "sleeper" gays, that you only know about when they either admit it or someone in the know tells you. They must not be so easy to figure out. :)

[newwaveboy87]

you'd think that, but "sleeper" gays are detectable by other gays.
we have the scent. :o

all gays smell like Madonna albums.

[JustABill]

you'd think that, but "sleeper" gays are detectable by other gays.
we have the scent. :o

all gays smell like Madonna albums.
o_O.

-smells Confessions on a Dance Floor CD-

Okay. There's been some people I was wondering about. And my gay-dar sucks. :(

[newwaveboy87]

how can a gay have a bad gaydar? :huh:
FOR SHAME!

i smell like Like a Prayer

[imaperson2]

nice avvy jason!

[bengan]

you'd think that, but "sleeper" gays are detectable by other gays.
we have the scent. :o

all gays smell like Madonna albums.
You stole from me..stupid Jason:csad:

Tp be honest I got a very good radar. I know which of the "normalstraifgt" guys that where gay. And when they told me( becuse people tell me evrything, Im a very nice person:woot: ) I didnt care. I mean why would I care about who they are together with? My only concern is that they are happy.

To be honest, I was never atracted to guys, after I meet sebastian. So thats nice....

[cyclonesfury]

it works like this, your friends and everyone else ALWAYS know before you do

thats true
its maybe cos we're never ready to admit it until someone tells it in ur face

[newwaveboy87]

You stole from me..stupid Jason:csad:

Tp be honest I got a very good radar. I know which of the "normalstraifgt" guys that where gay. And when they told me( becuse people tell me evrything, Im a very nice person:woot: ) I didnt care. I mean why would I care about who they are together with? My only concern is that they are happy.

To be honest, I was never atracted to guys, after I meet sebastian. So thats nice....
but it's true! we all do smell like Madonna albums.

guys are hot. how could you not be attracted to them? even hetero boys are minimally attracted. think about porn. the guys always have big ol' :wow: ...makes you think why, if straight guys are watching this?

[newwaveboy87]

thats true
its maybe cos we're never ready to admit it until someone tells it in ur face
pretty much

[bengan]

but it's true! we all do smell like Madonna albums.

guys are hot. how could you not be attracted to them? even hetero boys are minimally attracted. think about porn. the guys always have big ol' :wow: ...makes you think why, if straight guys are watching this?
Youre so wierd. Guys are hairy. Anyway I fall in love with the person, not the gender.

[newwaveboy87]

pssh...that's what all non-practicing gays say :o


:p

[cyclonesfury]

lol im gay and i dont have anything that is madonna... not even a single

[newwaveboy87]

but if i asked you to sing one, you could.

anyway, you should stick around and talk more. instead of you know...just posting once or twice and then disappearing.

[TKing]

I don't have anything of Madonna's. I don't even like her.

(No offense to all you Madonna fans). I just think she has passed her sell-by date.

[newwaveboy87]

she truly should hang it up pretty soon.
at 50 one really shouldn't be dancing around singing "Like a Virgin"

[Psionic Force]

So is this a thread about X-Men or Madonna?

[newwaveboy87]

it's about the gays

[newwaveboy87]

it's Banned Books week!

here's an article about it:
The Last Gay Word:
The Gay Teen Book Author's Tale
by Brent Hartinger, September 25, 2006

Twelve years ago, I had an argument with my partner Michael (the editor of this website) about the Margaret Atwood book, A Handmaid's Tale. The novel is a grim look into a totalitarian future where fundamentalist Christian theocrats have taken control of the government, turning women back into reproductive slaves and censoring information from the public.

Michael found the book to be a chilling cautionary tale that the price of liberty is eternal vigilance -- a reminder that the wall between church and state must be inviolate, and that fascism and fanaticism can never truly be vanquished.

I thought A Handmaid's Tale was hysterical, far-left, liberal paranoia.

Theocracy? In the United States? Ha! And blatant censorship? That couldn't happen here! America has too strong a tradition of pluralism, too much of a love for freedom and open debate. And while we definitely have our Puritanistic streak, the religious extremists could never really take control, because the “reasonable” majority wouldn't let them.

I'd majored in political science in college, and I'd read de Tocqueville, so I knew this to be true.

Flash forward ten years, and into Republican-Land 2006. “Christian” extremists like Robertson, Falwell, and Dobson have full access to the president, who himself claims to be on a “mission from God”, and all three branches of government are controlled by people who openly advocate some degree of a Christian theocracy. Government secrecy and cronyism are way, way up, and government agencies and corporate news media have been harassed, bullied, or bribed into creating blatant propaganda in support of the Republican theocrats.

And don't get me started on the lies one-third of our schools now tell our nations teenagers – that “condoms don't work,” for example -- in the name of “sex education.”

In other words, Michael was right, and I was really, really, really wrong.

Censorship can happen here. In fact, it is happening here, even though you'd never know from the truly pathetic excuse for “news” piped into our homes on the cable channels.

Why bring this up now? Partly because it's Banned Books Week, a national celebration of “the freedom to read” and an effort to call attention to efforts at censorship and intellectual suppression.

But partly because I see censorship first-hand. In my day job, I write gay teen novels like Geography Club and its sequel The Order of the Poison Oak (and, in fact, Geography Club, was just voted number two on this year's Banned Books Book Sense Top Ten Picks, to coincide with Banned Books Week).

And my books, and other gay teen books written by my friends Alex Sanchez (the Rainbow Boys series), David Levithan (Boy Meets Boy, and the daring new Wide Awake), and David LaRochelle (Absolutely Positively Not), are frequently challenged and, yes, censored at libraries and schools all across America.

Oh, please! you might be thinking. Censorship is the government suppression of ideas it deems “dangerous”; just because a public library or classroom pulls your book from the shelf or reading list, that doesn't mean it's censorship! Am I saying that schools and libraries can never remove any book from its shelves? What about editorial judgement? And why shouldn't parents have some say in the books their kids are studying and reading?

But the fact is, my books and these other books are frequently among the most popular in a classroom or library. Most library and educational professionals agree they're age-appropriate.

In short, teenagers desperately want this information, and many of their parents want them to have it. But Christian conservatives – and I'm sorry to say that today's would-be book censors are almost all Christian conservatives – have taken it upon themselves to try to restrict this information. They've created a whole, interconnected network of activists who comb the country's libraries and classrooms, determined to remove or restrict any hint of anything that portrays homosexuality in an accurate – they say “positive” – light.

All too often, school administrators and politicians collapse in the face of these unrelenting attacks. In fact, last spring, the Oklahoma legislature voted to require that all gay-themed books, even gay-themed picture books, be put in an “adults-only” section of the public libraries. Librarians themselves are usually very vigilant in their defense of gay teen books, but even they must withstand incredible pressure.

Maybe you think that I'm over-reacting, that there is no slippery slope, and that gay teen book bannings are not the first (or second or third) step toward another Kristallnacht .

But here's the way it usually works.

A month ago, some parents in Webster Central School District in upstate New York complained because Alex Sanchez's Rainbow Boys was included on a high school summer reading list. School admistrators responded by immeditately de-listing the book, which has won all kinds of great reviews and important honors.

Librarians in the area strongly warned the administrators that they were making a mistake: that if parents were allowed to have this one book yanked from the summer reading list without discussion or review, then other parents would soon want other books removed.

And what do you know? Right after the district acquiesced, another parent submitted a long list of books for removal (including many classics and award winners, as well as another book of mine, The Last Chance Texaco). About half the books were gay-themed.
And this was in a solidly “blue” state!

This is what happens when administrators try to compromise with people who know no compromise.

If allowed, many of these people would remove every gay book from that reading list, and from the area's public and school libraries. Removing all trace of homosexuality from the public sphere is pretty much part of the stated mission of groups like Concerned Women for America, Parents Against Bad Books, and Plan2Succeed.org.

If a book is truly not "age-appropriate," there are almost always mechanisms in place to deal with the work in question. But if the book challenge is merely a case where one parent wants to decide not just what his or her children are reading, but what everyone else's kids are reading too, well, that parent needs to learn that public libraries and public schools exist to serve the entire community, and cater to lots of diverse beliefs. Basically, we all pay the taxes that support these libraries and schools, and every young person is required to attend school; resources should exist to serve all their needs.

This is America, after all, where we're supposed to err on the side of freedom, and letting parents, individuals, and, individual families decide these things for themselves.

But these bannings and challenges are really just the tip of the iceberg. There are literally huge swaths of this country right now in 2006 where public officials -- school and public librarians -- are not allowed, or feel that they're not allowed, to even consider buying a gay teen book. This is de-facto censorship of a different sort: a self-imposed kind.

I used to believe that something like A Handmaid's Tale could never happen in America.

Between the Republican theocrats and these gay book bannings, I now know that it is happening. And we better do something about it, or this really will be the last gay word.

[cyclonesfury]

wonder how long it would take for society to be desensitised

but if i asked you to sing one, you could.

anyway, you should stick around and talk more. instead of you know...just posting once or twice and then disappearing.

usually when i post no one replies soon enough

if you really want to talk to me you can chat to me through msn

[Sloth7d]

Actually, X-men was based on the civilrights movement with african americans.
Replacing the word N*ggr with mutie/mutant.
The kkk is now friends of Humanity
And using Prof X as Martain Luther King and Magneto to represent Malcom X

[newwaveboy87]

wonder how long it would take for society to be desensitised



usually when i post no one replies soon enough

if you really want to talk to me you can chat to me through msn
my msn name is on my profile. add me. stalk me.

[cyclonesfury]

will do

[Generation Lee]

Actually, X-men was based on the civilrights movement with african americans.
Replacing the word N*ggr with mutie/mutant.
The kkk is now friends of Humanity
And using Prof X as Martain Luther King and Magneto to represent Malcom X

That's always been the case as far as I know the history of the book. Anyway quick question is it true that most buyers are either Black, Gay or Jews or should this be taken lightly as it maybe marvel stating how wonderfull their book is at reach demographies. Also I wonder in this time we are living in how many Muslims are turning to the book and relating.

[squeekness]

I don't think so, Lee. My best guess would be the average buyer is 14-17, white, male and not too terribly religious. That's the standard I see most often in the store. I would be curious to see a demographics pole if anyone was to do one. :)

[Sloth7d]

It depends on the area really. I see a good amount of black and white guys buying comics at the comic shop I go to. Though most of them purchase Dc comics.

[newwaveboy87]

I don't think so, Lee. My best guess would be the average buyer is 14-17, white, male and not too terribly religious. That's the standard I see most often in the store. I would be curious to see a demographics pole if anyone was to do one. :)
at your comic shop maybe, but comics are also in Borders and Barnes & Nobles. i see a lot of non-white, non-straight people buying comics there. it really just depends on where you go.

[Valechan]

I think most people just like the X-Men because of who they are and not what the represent, not everyone comprehends the metaphor behind the X-Men or even feels represented by them, some just like the fights, or the characters.

Oh, and btw, I happen to have several Madonna CDs.... guess we're al the same all over the world ( I also have Barbra, Bette and several musical comedy cds and dvds... I couldn't be queerer :p)

[Sloth7d]

Also, the x-men don't quite represent what they stood for in the beggining.
They now are basically heroes out to save the world, period. And if anything they more remind me of native americans now. With most of them being wiped out. And they now have a private reservation like native americans have.

[newwaveboy87]

the X-Men have always represented minorities. they started off as an allegory for one kind and then morphed into various different ones.

i think your Native American allegory is one of the levels of the storyline. i never thought of it like that before...it works. i love it. good job :up:

[Generation Lee]

Thanks for the answers guys I asked because Ian McKillen say that was what he was told. This was just before X3 came out. BTW way if Jew offended sorry I did mean to write Jewish.

[newwaveboy87]

HAPPY NATIONAL COMING OUT DAY!!

National Coming Out Day
By Molly Stenhouse
Tue, October 11, 2005, 12:01 am PDT

Every day, many gay people struggle with a question: to come out or not to come out? October 11 marks National Coming Out Day, an occasion when lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered individuals (LGBT) are encouraged to speak about their sexual or gender orientation with loved ones. Created in 1988, NCOD commemorates the one-year anniversary of the March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights, when hundreds of thousands of activists converged on the nation's capital to demand civil rights legislation. This year's theme, "Talk About It," focuses on the importance of not just coming out, but discussing LGBT issues each day. HRC President Joe Solmonese says, "Every single time we talk about our lives as GLBT Americans, we are another step closer to equality." Many gay people find that teachers, gay-straight alliances, college campuses, and advocacy organizations like PFLAG and GLAAD can offer support to those who want to live openly.

Suggested Sites...


OutProud Resources (http://www.outproud.org/brochures.html) - resources for those trying to understand their sexuality or considering coming out to family members.
Coming Out Stories (http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Share_and_Read_Coming_Out_Sto ries&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=33&ContentID=21864) - read about how others have stepped out of the closet.
Becoming a Straight Ally (http://www.hrc.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Coming_Out/Get_Informed4/Straight_Allies/Coming_Out_as_a_Straight_Ally2.htm) - for people who aren't lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered, but support the equal rights and fair treatment of LGBT people.

[imaperson2]

stop it ***!

[newwaveboy87]

just because i said i wouldn't have sex with you doesn't mean you can trash talk me. :o

[imaperson2]

ooh SURE.

[newwaveboy87]

:meow: pass = revoked

[imaperson2]

youre the one that always tries to sex the talk up. youre always masturbating when i talk to you

[newwaveboy87]

no i'm not.
you're the one who wants me to masturbate while we're talking.

you know, cause you think it's fun when i do that.

[imaperson2]

oh please. that one day you had been masturbating for i forgot how long before i had even signed on.

[newwaveboy87]

Lies!

[imaperson2]

oh please. what was it? 3 hours or so.

[newwaveboy87]

:huh:

now you're just making **** up

[imaperson2]

mmhm

[newwaveboy87]

shut up before i skin you.
you're just making **** up now.

why you gotta lie like that?
pssh...thinking you straight. :rolleyes:

[imaperson2]

oh sure 2 hours/3 hours. stop lying to yourself as well.

[newwaveboy87]

2 hrs? :huh:
nope.

you fail.

[imaperson2]

no. you fail buddy.

[newwaveboy87]

i think i know better than you ****tard.

[imaperson2]

oh really.

[newwaveboy87]

Ya Rly!

[imaperson2]

LockShockBarre17: our fight in Homo thread gets me hard
LockShockBarre17: let's fork
thatcoolkid661: there you go again
LockShockBarre17: you'd so love it

[newwaveboy87]

LockShockBarre17: our fight in Homo thread gets me hard
LockShockBarre17: let's fork
thatcoolkid661: there you go again
LockShockBarre17: you'd so love it
LockShockBarre17: you asked me to go with you to Universal

*ahem*
you forgot the last line :o

[imaperson2]

thatcoolkid661: would you like to go to Halloween Horror Nights with me?
thatcoolkid661: at Universal Studios?
LockShockBarre17: i havent been to Universal in so long!
LockShockBarre17: i'd love to
thatcoolkid661: lets
thatcoolkid661: i love it
LockShockBarre17: we could totally do it on one of the rides

[newwaveboy87]

then you agreed to do it on the tour :o
you're equally responsible.

PWND

[imaperson2]

wheres that post at?

[newwaveboy87]

when i went to get food my AIM signed off.
which, you know.

and when my AIM signs off all of the dialogue boxes close.
meaning, the conversation we had disappeared.

but don't act like you didn't say it.

[imaperson2]

aww too bad.

[newwaveboy87]

oh well, i know you said it.
you know you said it.

moving on.

[imaperson2]

give up? oh well. :)

[newwaveboy87]

i kind of have to let it go if my proof closed itself down

[imaperson2]

NASTY HO

LockShockBarre17: why does arguing get me so worked up sexually?
thatcoolkid661: there you go again
thatcoolkid661: shall i post that too?

LockShockBarre17: nope
LockShockBarre17: we're done
LockShockBarre17: besides, you like it
thatcoolkid661: not in the way that you do
LockShockBarre17: i was talking about my getting worked up
LockShockBarre17: it'd be easier to take advantage of me
thatcoolkid661: ooh no
thatcoolkid661: there you go again *****
LockShockBarre17: you love it
LockShockBarre17: stop trying to act like you don't
thatcoolkid661: nope

[newwaveboy87]

you realize i do it just to freak you out?
although, most of the time it just ends up turning you on.

[imaperson2]

trying to look good on this homo thread? admit it jason, you like me :)

[newwaveboy87]

are you John? no?
well then, you're lumped in with every other guy on the planet.

k, thanks. bye.

[imaperson2]

aww how cute.
too bad you arent going to go any further with him
:)

[newwaveboy87]

:csad:

....ouch.....

[imaperson2]

well it hasnt happened yet. dont keep your hopes up TOO much. :)

[newwaveboy87]

...hope?
wtf is that?

hope is a dangerous word. like love and happy.

[imaperson2]

ehh..dont worry 'bout it.

[newwaveboy87]

stop trying to seduce me.
not going to work.

i taught you all you know. you can't turn it on the master.

[imaperson2]

wtf? you....MY teacher? please ho.

[newwaveboy87]

i will cut your face :o

[imaperson2]

what exactly have you taught me?

[newwaveboy87]

i think you know ;)

[imaperson2]

no i dont. :)

[newwaveboy87]

i'm done with you :o

[imaperson2]

ran out of material i see.
that's kinda sad.
I pity you :P

[newwaveboy87]

no, i'm just tired of you.

[cyclonesfury]

i came out to my parents last thursday... it was painful

[Halcohol]

Do you feel better, though?

[cyclonesfury]

in a way yes

[Halcohol]

Now you're free to be whoever you want to, you don't have to hide it anymore, and you don't have to be uncertain about who you are, right?

[cyclonesfury]

well my mum was like either act normal or get out...shes just hoping its a passing phase

[Halcohol]

Well there's a difference between coming out to your parents and things remaining relatively the same, or else you could start acting like a total queen :p

Don't worry, eventually she'll wake up and realize it's not going to change. Then she'll have to deal with it, then (most likely!) she'll accept it.

At least, that's how I assume it goes. I'm not exactly the expert on coming out.

[cyclonesfury]

hopefully.... its really awkward between us right now

[Halcohol]

I can pretty much guarantee you that as soon as she sees you're happy with your lifestyle and that you've accepted who you are, she'll come around.

Lol never fails, this board is FULL of homosexual posters, and yet the only person online to offer advice is the straight guy :p

[newwaveboy87]

GAH!

good for you CF.
things will get better in time.

[TKing]

Yeah, I'm sure your mum will realise in time that this is who you are, and that she just has to accept it.

Way to go! :up:

[newwaveboy87]

hey TK
*waves*

[TKing]

Hey. Don't worry, I don't bite.

[newwaveboy87]

you dont!?
:csad:

[TKing]

Oh ok, I guess I could make an exception for you.

[newwaveboy87]

*excited*

so, what's your real name? age?

[TKing]

I like to keep a sense of mystery... :cwink:

[newwaveboy87]

i will break you ^_^

[TKing]

I look forward to it.

[newwaveboy87]

....i like you :huh:

[TKing]

Hehe, I have that affect on people. I don't know why.

[newwaveboy87]

stalk me :o

[TKing]

I'll be watching you outside your house tonight.

[newwaveboy87]

*excited*

[imaperson2]

bunch of ****...eww

[Valechan]

if you're here is because you're interested... perhaps it is time you come of out of the closet yourself :p

[imaperson2]

it was just a joke, and i have, sorta kinda.

[cyclonesfury]

sorta kinda????
its either in or out

[TKing]

Maybe he's bi? :huh:

[imaperson2]

well, i tried to come out but i guess my parents don't believe me. i do consider myself "bi" although jason says otherwise.

[JustABill]

Jason is like the Magneto of the gays. :o

[imaperson2]

:D i guess

[newwaveboy87]

Jason is like the Magneto of the gays. :o
how so?

http://www.lminfo.hr/comics/galerija/magneto-pic1.jpg

[Valechan]

Well I don't know what Jason says, but there is no such thing as bisexuals... bisexual men are just scared guys pretending they like women because they are afraid to come out and say the truth :p

[JustABill]

how so?

http://www.lminfo.hr/comics/galerija/magneto-pic1.jpg
I'll just put it this way.

''THEY WISH TO CURE US, BUT I SAY TO YOU WE ARE THE CURE. THE CURE FOR THE PERFECT CONDITION CALLED HETEROSEXUAL."

''Who will you stand with, the heteros or us?!"

:o