X-Men and Homosexuality: The Connection

[littyx]

Hey everyone. I have a friend that asked me to do some research for a presentation on the similarities of X-Men and homosexuality. He knows of what a huge X-Men fan I am and knew where to look.

Anyway, I know of the obvious reasons X-Men and homosexuals have similar struggles (discrimination, coming out @ puberty, political struggles, Legacy Virus & AIDS). But does anyone know of more specific examples, or any more examples for that matter. Thank you.

Also, if you have a problem with this topic, or want to use this thread as a place to emit negative opinions on how X-Men and gays dont correlate, please don't. Do it on your own time somewhere else. This is a simple question for a term paper. Thanks again.

[lazerustheduck]

Not sure I can really contribute much but was always fascinated with the struggle Kurt had balancing his mutantcy and his religious beliefs.
It makes you wonder if the adversity in trying to maintain his religion while being what many in that religion would consider an abomination is what drove him closer to holy orders rather than further away.
How does this correlate to homosexuality in the catholic church and the high proportion of gay men in the church today.

[Angry Sentinel]

Specific?

How about the Gay characters?

Alpha Flight: Northstar (moves fast) I seem to remember he drew the spotlight for a story a couple of times.

[newwaveboy87]

Not sure I can really contribute much but was always fascinated with the struggle Kurt had balancing his mutantcy and his religious beliefs.
It makes you wonder if the adversity in trying to maintain his religion while being what many in that religion would consider an abomination is what drove him closer to holy orders rather than further away.
How does this correlate to homosexuality in the catholic church and the high proportion of gay men in the church today.
it correlates very well actually. he's trying to balance something he cannot change, but that his religion feels is a choice that is made. they demon him for something outside of his control, and he's constantly trying to balance his religious beliefs with his lifestyle.

[Holy spirit]

X-men comics and the religious connection. Future prophecy on Christians and the prophecied slaughter from the anti-christ during the end of days and the character Apocalypse by all names and story lines. It also about being outcast in society have to admid Bryan Singer used a few gay actors like Ian Mckellen, Brian Cox and Alan Cummings. Any more who knows?

[newwaveboy87]

Brian Cox is gay? :confused: i know Bryan Singer is....

[littyx]

I've never heard of Brian Cox being gay. I know Ian and Singer are.

[newwaveboy87]

i help you out at all?
if you want more of my help - you should ask more specific questions

[X-Maniac]

The X-Men supposedly is an allegory that symbolises the struggle of minority groups in general. This includes gay people. But I don't know what minority groups the creators had in mind. They may not have been thinking specifically of gay people. There was McCarthyism in the USA - McCarthyism took place during a period of intense suspicion in the United States primarily from 1950 to 1954, when the US government was actively countering American Communist Party subversion, its leadership, and others suspected of being Communists or Communist sympathizers. During this period people from all walks of life became the subject of aggressive "witch-hunts," often based on inconclusive or questionable evidence.

And of course there was the racist events in the USA too. And the civil rights movement that led to the protests led by Martin Luther King and the passing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. It was in 1963, the year the X-Men was first published, that Martin Luther King said: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C. (28 August 1963).

During the 60s there was also a rising gay rights movement in the USA that led to the Stonewall Riots of 1969.

So the X-Men was created in a time where social/political minority groups - in particular blacks, gays and Communists - were fighting for their rights in a time of persecution. Although Communists are not born different - it's a political choice - they were part of this climate of discrimination, fear and suspicion.

In the X-Men universe, the scientific term mutants is applied to those born with unusual abilities (and/or appearances) just as many people believe there is a 'gay gene', although I don't know whether there were strong scientific thoughts about a gay gene at the time the X-Men was first created.

The persecution element and the fight for rights is present in the comics in a very powerful sense, and has been reinforced by the movies. The movies contain what could be interpreted as several ideas that have particular resonance with gay people - running away from home (Rogue), the search for true identity (Wolverine), fear of what normal people might think (Storm, in her conversation with the dying Senator Kelly), fear of taking part in normal life because they may be shunned or bullied (Mystique in her conversation with Kelly on the helicopter). And Magneto's Jewish/gipsy parents being led to the gas chamber (as gay people also were). Also, Iceman's 'coming out' scene with his parents in X2 has been seen by many as having a strong gay subtext.

Bryan Singer - who is gay - was attracted to the movies by the idea of persecuted minorities. He is also Jewish and as an adopted child is also searching for his true identity -- which is why he focused on, and identified with, Wolverine in particular.

Ian McKellen was attracted to the X-Men movies by its symbolism for struggling minorities. And Singer said he would often direct McKellen with a gay reference. In an interview in Total Film magazine (issue 44, September 2000), Singer was asked how he got the actors to find their characters (they were not allowed to read the comics), and he responded: "You find tricks and ways of getting them to speak, or intellectually: 'Look, Ian, this is a society of people who want to wipe out homosexuals. What do you feel about that?' There's ways to do it."

In the same interview, Singer says: "The idea about reluctant superheroes, born the way they are, searching for acceptance in a world that hates and fears them, it's interesting. It's what every adolescent experiences at one point or another. It's what I experience every day."

Producer Lauren Schuler Donner said in the same magazine article: "Thematically there's a lot to relate to. It's about oppression. It's about prejudice, it could be the Jews in World War Two, it could be gay people."

[Lazmarquez]

The X-Men supposedly is an allegory that symbolises the struggle of minority groups in general. This includes gay people. But I don't know what minority groups the creators had in mind. They may not have been thinking specifically of gay people. There was McCarthyism in the USA - McCarthyism took place during a period of intense suspicion in the United States primarily from 1950 to 1954, when the US government was actively countering American Communist Party subversion, its leadership, and others suspected of being Communists or Communist sympathizers. During this period people from all walks of life became the subject of aggressive "witch-hunts," often based on inconclusive or questionable evidence.

And of course there was the racist events in the USA too. And the civil rights movement that led to the protests led by Martin Luther King and the passing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. It was in 1963, the year the X-Men was first published, that Martin Luther King said: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C. (28 August 1963).

During the 60s there was also a rising gay rights movement in the USA that led to the Stonewall Riots of 1969.

So the X-Men was created in a time where social/political minority groups - in particular blacks, gays and Communists - were fighting for their rights in a time of persecution. Although Communists are not born different - it's a political choice - they were part of this climate of discrimination, fear and suspicion.

In the X-Men universe, the scientific term mutants is applied to those born with unusual abilities (and/or appearances) just as many people believe there is a 'gay gene', although I don't know whether there were strong scientific thoughts about a gay gene at the time the X-Men was first created.

The persecution element and the fight for rights is present in the comics in a very powerful sense, and has been reinforced by the movies. The movies contain what could be interpreted as several ideas that have particular resonance with gay people - running away from home (Rogue), the search for true identity (Wolverine), fear of what normal people might think (Storm, in her conversation with the dying Senator Kelly), fear of taking part in normal life because they may be shunned or bullied (Mystique in her conversation with Kelly on the helicopter). And Magneto's Jewish/gipsy parents being led to the gas chamber (as gay people also were). Also, Iceman's 'coming out' scene with his parents in X2 has been seen by many as having a strong gay subtext.

Bryan Singer - who is gay - was attracted to the movies by the idea of persecuted minorities. He is also Jewish and as an adopted child is also searching for his true identity -- which is why he focused on, and identified with, Wolverine in particular.

Ian McKellen was attracted to the X-Men movies by its symbolism for struggling minorities. And Singer said he would often direct McKellen with a gay reference. In an interview in Total Film magazine (issue 44, September 2000), Singer was asked how he got the actors to find their characters (they were not allowed to read the comics), and he responded: "You find tricks and ways of getting them to speak, or intellectually: 'Look, Ian, this is a society of people who want to wipe out homosexuals. What do you feel about that?' There's ways to do it."

In the same interview, Singer says: "The idea about reluctant superheroes, born the way they are, searching for acceptance in a world that hates and fears them, it's interesting. It's what every adolescent experiences at one point or another. It's what I experience every day."

Producer Lauren Schuler Donner said in the same magazine article: "Thematically there's a lot to relate to. It's about oppression. It's about prejudice, it could be the Jews in World War Two, it could be gay people."

Very well written and said. :up: Being a gay individual myself, that's really what got me connected to the X-Comics and films with such ease. Everyday I wake up feeling as though I'm different, as though someone may be judging my every choice or move, as though I may never get the same rights as those who are more accepted in society. Sometimes issues like this can be daunting and make things very sad, but it's things like X-Men that give some just a little more to relate to. I think all of those years reading the X-Men comics as a kid helped me develop a sincere appreciation for my differences in the world. I now feel as though my difference gives me something many struggle to obtain. Uniqueness and self-understanding.

[littyx]

i help you out at all?
if you want more of my help - you should ask more specific questions
Well, it really can't get any more specific. I just want to know if people have examples from the comic or film they want to share.

Also, thanks X-Maniac for that.

[littyx]

Very well written and said. :up: Being a gay individual myself, that's really what got me connect to the X-Comics and films with such ease. Everyday I wake up feeling as though I'm different, as though someone may be judging my every choice or move, as though I may never get the same rights as those who are more accepted in society. Sometimes issues like this can be daunting and make things very sad, but it's things like X-Men that give some just a little more to relate to. I think all of those years reading the X-Men comics as a kid helped me develop a sincere appreciation for my differences in the world. I now feel as though my difference gives me something many struggle to obtain. Uniqueness and self-understanding.
Definitely Laz. I know that my being a homosexual makes me that much more dynamic. And truthfully, I think it makes me more interesting. You can't grow unless you have struggle. And many homosexuals struggle throughout adolesence. To have gotten through that, through being ridiculed, and scared, and being isolated, to have grown and come out of all that unscathed, is truly a great achievement. Like you said, I am also unabashed about my homosexuality. I am in a sense, almost grateful that I am. And I am definitely proud of myself to be 22 and gotten this far with acceptance of myself. Its also odd because 90% of people think I am straight. So I can go through school and work without people knowing. But I dont hide the fact, I want people to know. I think because I have seen and experienced what being in the closet is like, and I never want that feeling again.

[newwaveboy87]

this has turned into the Homosexual Group Therapy thread as pretaining to X-Men!
:eek: :up:

[Lazmarquez]

Definitely Laz. I know that my being a homosexual makes me that much more dynamic. And truthfully, I think it makes me more interesting. You can't grow unless you have struggle. And many homosexuals struggle throughout adolesence. To have gotten through that, through being ridiculed, and scared, and being isolated, to have grown and come out of all that unscathed, is truly a great achievement. Like you said, I am also unabashed about my homosexuality. I am in a sense, almost grateful that I am. And I am definitely proud of myself to be 22 and gotten this far with acceptance of myself. Its also odd because 90% of people think I am straight. So I can go through school and work without people knowing. But I dont hide the fact, I want people to know. I think because I have seen and experienced what being in the closet is like, and I never want that feeling again.

I have the same situation. Many people think I'm straight because of how i carry myself and my likes and dislikes, so i've been generally lucky as to my acceptance, but it's also still had it's difficult times.. it's nice to know others go through the same. and yes buddy, newwaveboy, this is i suppose somewhat a group therapy.. but everyone needs some venting and relation sometime :)

[newwaveboy87]

definitely people need to vent at times. lord knows there's been plenty of times when i need too.

[X-Maniac]

this has turned into the Homosexual Group Therapy thread as pretaining to X-Men!
:eek: :up:

I wouldn't have said this was a homosexual therapy session. A question was asked and I tried to answer it.

I don't mind what a person's sexuality is. If they are a decent person, a nice person, I couldn't care less what they do in their private lives.

Some gay people go through hell, and for the two people here who say that people think they are straight, that must save them a lot of grief and distress.
As soon as people think, suspect or know you are gay, then a lot of bad things can happen.

I know people from all walks of life, all possible sexual permutations (straight/gay/bisexual/bicurious/asexual/celibate/virgin/married/divorced/you name it) so I've heard some stories in my time!

And working in the media, as I do, I am constantly trying to fight against the system and protect people's rights and stop the subtle prejudice that surrounds us. You'd be surprised how many people make automatic assumptions and apply labels and descriptions without even thinking that they are discriminating.

For instance, a story about two antiques dealers winning the lottery jackpot. The news service story said 'Two gay antiques dealers are celebrating after winning....' but I said that if they were straight, the first paragraph wouldn't include their sexuality. I got all mention of the word gay removed - we just said 'Bryan and his partner' rather than 'Bryan and his gay lover' which made it seem seedy and was subtle discrimination, as the story made it obvious that they were a couple, and there was a paragraph about how they met in Manchester's 'gay village' and that spelled it out clearly. I had to have quite an argument about it - would we say 'A black man has won the lottery?' - no, we wouldn't, and they began to see my point. But racial acceptance and rights have come a lot further than gay rights, and that is why homosexuality is described as the last acceptable prejudice.

[Darthkush]

I will say only this: I don't understand people who LOVE the x-men and hate homosexuals. If you really understand and know anything about these characters, you would be accepting of all people of all colors, religions, sexualities, etc.

[_BB_]

^ Exactly.

The X-Men comics are a great metaphor for life and in one way or another, everyone can identify with at least one of these characters.

Ive seen a boy in my school who was only RUMOURED to be gay and he was bullied so bad, mainly by the lads. I felt so bad for him and how those lads treated him even though it was only a rumour made me sick to my stomach and I know my friends felt the same way. Why should one small difference like that cause such behaviour?

I like James Marsdens explanation on the 1.5 DVD when he says something like, if a guy came into the room, blasted a hole in the wall with his eyes and walked straight back out again how would you react? Would you feel that this person is a threat and stay away or hurt them? Or would you tolerate it and want to find out more about what just happened?

Every minority group is stereotyped because of general ignorance for example, there are many people out there who would say "All muslims are terrorists." If they opened their minds a little and found out more about Islam then would there be so much intolerance? The same thing goes for mutants; "All mutants are dangerous" but are they really? The x men are proof that they are not. If people bothered to actually come into contact and try to understand this minority group then would there be so much conflict between the two sides?

The X Men are an analogy for all of those "minority" groups including homosexuals. Ideas and stereotypes about them can only be changed if the majority bother to use their own minds for a change instead of everyone elses and actually think about things. Through lack of ignorance, tolerance of those who are considered to be different can be achieved. If everyone were the same then life would be boring and who is to say what is normal and what is not?

[X-Maniac]

On Ian McKellen's website, he said this in an interview:

"When Bryan Singer first talked to me about X-Men he explained the Xavier/Magneto axis in terms of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. It's true that each civil rights movement splits between the integrationists and separationists — the proponents of non-violence versus violent activism. I have noted that amongst activists in the gay rights movement. Some of us move between the various approaches, me included. Any member of a minority facing discrimination can relate to the mutants' dilemma. So before I ever saw the comic, I knew what would be central to the film script - an ever-relevant political argument. That attracted me as a gay man and as an actor."

[_BB_]

^ How could i forget that. Whenever i think of those two i always think of malcolm x and martin luther. That is one of the greatest analogies concerning the x men.

[newwaveboy87]

X-Maniac, what i said was just a joke. don't take everything so deathly serious.

[OutcryX]

have you tried "NOT" being a mutant?

[littyx]

I'm glad to see so many making positive remarks on this thread. Thanks guys. This is why I spend so much time here.

I've been reading X-Men since I was about 7, and I'm pretty sure on some level one of the reasons I felt a connection with it was because of their internal struggle. I always knew I was different, It didn't become completely obvious until I hit puberty. But as I have grown older, and watched the movies, I can definitely appreciate it for how it can somtimes reflect some things I go through. Like social and politicial discrimination. I think thats one of the hardest things to live through. Your own country and president not recognizing you as a complete citizen. Just like Jean Grey said in X1.

"Yes, we license people to drive cars, but not to live".

[LittleMissVixen]

With the parallel themes, it’s a shame gay characters aren’t handled better in the x-men comics.

[Angry Sentinel]

With the parallel themes, it’s a shame gay characters aren’t handled better in the x-men comics. I know it's of little consequence, but at least they are present. Just like any other lessening of a double standard, the first step is admittance, then comes understanding and finally acceptance. These are the "step and fetch it" days of homosexual characters in stories... now they have to push for a more "three-dimensional" characterization.

But you do raise a good point for Littyx. He can use the sterotypical way the characters themselves are handled, and further illustrate the next step. Or outline (review) the current characterizations as a breakdown of the typical stereotype. And show how even the books that explore these "taboo" subjects still commit and underline the social labelling error themselves.

Anybody got comic book issue numbers?
*goes to search through issues*

[GreatWhiteWhale]

I think the tepid exploration of Homosexuality in comics is usually chalked up to the prescribed 8-14 'audience' of comics, because of the immaturity of this audience, it is easy for publishers to say that heterosexual relationships are more easily grasped in comics than same sex ones.

Personally I think if there are regular scenes in X-Men involving violence, wolverine cutting people to pieces, emma, rogue and psylocke running around in bras and g-strings, medical operations, violence against cultural minorities, occasional drug use and the revelation that Nightcrawler has two *****. Then there may as well be more Gay characters than just Northstar (whos dead) and Karma (those are the two off the top of my head, Im sure there is more), and while on occasion there sexuality is explored, they never seem to have an ongoing homosexual relationship.

Admittedly it has never really concerned me until I read this thread and started thinking about it, I think the statistics for homosexuality is something like 1 in 10 (Anyone got the facts?) and Marvel has certainly taken a more equitable approach in Ultimate X-Men, where two of the characters there are gay, Northstar and Collosus, (and wasn't it hinted that Deathstrike was a Lesbian?) out of a total pool of about thirty or forty mutant characters. So 5% isn't that bad.

[Holy spirit]

They glorify people who want to destroy the world in comics. I do not see why characters should not be diverse by nature either. Professor X is in a wheel chair a man of disability that is also a step out of the silverage of comic heros too. But because of society I do not think a gay Superman type although superman as such is kinda camp if you think about it would actually take off and sell in comparison. Its a shame its like having a gay president, but one would be selected out before they can reach a feat like that.

[Angry Sentinel]

... Edit
Personally I think if there are regular scenes in X-Men involving violence, wolverine cutting people to pieces, emma, rogue and psylocke running around in bras and g-strings, medical operations, violence against cultural minorities, occasional drug use and the revelation that Nightcrawler has two *****. Then there may as well be more Gay characters than just Northstar (whos dead) and Karma And they say comics are for kids... G-30/ PG-21 :up:

[littyx]

I think the statistics for homosexuality is something like 1 in 10 (Anyone got the facts?)
Yes the Kinsey study which was done in the 70's I believe, calculated that 10% of the population were homosexual. However, I find that very hard to believe since I think most people would not admit to being gay esp. back in the 70's.

[Kritish]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

[X-Maniac]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

But we are allowed to have violence including Wolverine slicing people to pieces, and to have heterosexual love scenes depicted then? Because that's what you get in X-Men as it is.

Your sort of bad attitude is precisely what we need to counter and educate.

[littyx]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?
If you would have read the intro to this thread it said:

If you have a problem with this topic, or want to use this thread as a place to emit negative opinions on how X-Men and gays dont correlate, please dont. Do it on your own time somewhere else. This is a simple question for a term paper.

See, these are the kind of people that I have to deal with. :down

[Kritish]

But we are allowed to have violence including Wolverine slicing people to pieces, and to have heterosexual love scenes depicted then? Because that's what you get in X-Men as it is.

Your sort of bad attitude is precisely what we need to counter and educate.

Whatever happend to the good ol days when x-men was just about entertainment ?

I don't want to have a comic book preach to me.

*Goes back to Batman and Punisher forums*

[Elijya]

not reading this crazy ass long thread, but....

The X-Men are representative of ALL minorities, with specific comparisons to different ones at many different points in their history

[littyx]

When did this thread become a "Keep the X-Men comic as entertainment only" thread?! Who the hell is saying to turn the comic into a lesson book? We are SIMPLY analyzing the comic and interpreting it in the way we see it.

And its sad that you people are saying X-Men is just "fun", nothing more. Does that mean you merely look at the pictures and colors and smile? No, you read it and analyze it. If X-Men is just a book full of senseless fun thats means nothing more to you, then why are you here? It must mean something more if you came on a message board to discuss it. If everything was merely fun and nothing deeper then that, then thats some shallow crap.

[Kritish]

And its sad that you people are saying X-Men is just "fun", nothing more. Does that mean you merely look at the pictures and colors and smile? No, you read it and analyze it. If X-Men is just a book full of senseless fun thats means nothing more to you, then why are you here? It must mean something more if you came on a message board to discuss it. If everything was merely fun and nothing deeper then that, then thats some shallow crap.

Does that mean you merely look at the pictures and colors and smile?

Almost, I'm not looking for it redeeming values.

Whatever happend to the good ol days when X-Nerds made assinie threads on how Wolverine could kill god ?

[Elijya]

whatever happened to the days where you vandalized people who're different from you?

oh yeah, that was last week

[Darthkush]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

^ EXACTLY what I was talking about in my last post. I...just don't get that at all. I really don't.:down

Was X-men ever just about "wolverine slicing things, Magneto vs. Xavier, etc.?" for me? Yes, when I was like 9. Although I still enjoy those aspects(we all do. Let's face it, these things would not have endured for so many decades without those), X-men, for me anyway, is more about a combination of the different metaphorical themes that the book represents combined with the interpersonal relationships between the various characters. As we grow up, so must our versions of our favorite heroes, otherwise it's just juvenile, nostalgic fun. There's nothing wrong with that on occasion(see my avatar for obvious proof lol) but I believe X-men is on a much higher sophistication level.

[X-Maniac]

No one wants comics to be a 'gay pride propaganda tool'. Who said so? But nothing wrong in them representing a wide range of real life.

The days of total escapism are now long gone, I'm afraid. We are in an era where people expect some gritty, grounded realism and real-world values. Shows like X-Files, Millennium, Smallville, and movies like X-Men and Batman Begins, succeed because they surround the impossible and unbelievable with the possible and believable. Fantastical characters are placed in a realistic setting. This is in the hope that you, the reader or viewer, can 'suspend disbelief' and buy into the ideas without dismissing them as hokum and giggle your way through your popcorn.

X-Men has always had a socio-political theme. It doesn't have to ram it down our throats, or have heavy adult content or focus graphically on sex or violence. But it can include some of the 'wider picture' that is going on in the world. The depiction of minorities has always been rather murky in the comics (blacks, gays etc). No one wants the comics to get all heavy on us, but the inclusion of some real-world themes can only enhance the setting. I don't want to see 'gay pride propaganda' any more than i want to see any other minority or majority propaganda. But we want characters everyone can relate to, and that includes people of all kinds. The readers are not all white Christian middle-class heterosexuals. My 14-year-old niece is well aware of gay people, and even has a friend who may be gay, so I see no harm in including characters who reflect the real world out here. It doesn't have to be graphic or over-the-top, it just needs to be realistic.

[Angry Sentinel]

^ very well said, and great topic control. No-one was calling for the Xmen to go "gay". But we are applauding their use of a broad spectrum of topics and therefore widening their appeal to an even broader audience. Since this inclusion makes for so many different types of readers/viewers, it will be necessary to continue to grow with their audience, to maintain this status. And as X-maniac stated the "realism" factor is underlined and magnified by this as well (since their reality is as socially diverse as ours, it just continues to draw us in).


Almost, I'm not looking for it redeeming values.

Whatever happend to the good ol days when X-Nerds made assinie threads on how Wolverine could kill god ?
GOOD FOR YOU, and that's exactly what we're discussing here, how a normal 10 year old like yourself can relate to the good ole fun days with assinine X-nerds or how an eastern asian person, or an african person, or a CANADIAN (lol) could relate. There's something for everyone in the Xmen. Now please allow us to discuss how it relates to the gay community and we will most certainly get around to your Wolverine killing thing with all the other 10 year olds...

Just not right now :up:

[Elijya]

ok, this reminds me of something that happened this past year

as some of you in the comcis reading world may know, Young Avengers is a new superhero series from Marvel about teenage counter-parts to the Avengers. Except, much controversy was stirred because two of the characters are gay. Before this was even confirmed and their were only rumors, the letters page of the comic began a discussion. Some people were opposed to it, and said they'd drop the book (a very few) and most people applauded it.

The guy who started the conversation, however, wasn't merely upset that there were Gay characters in a comic, his point was that comics can't address serious social issues

To which, I say: **** you. Comics have ALWAYS addressed series social issues. The first cartoons were political cartoons. The first superman comics had Superman rescuing good, decent people from corrupt bankers and politicians - very topical in the days of the Depression! after that, Captain America and other heroes began fighting the nazi's - before the US even joined in the war! Romanca comics began experimenting with interracial dating

in the 60's, almost every character dealt with social issues, the kinds of things kids deal with in every day life. Spider-Man blames hyimself for his uncle's death, and has to juggle school, girls, work, his sick aunt, and having a superhero career the whole time. Hulk was all about anger and abandonment issues. The Silver Surfer proselytize about his alien views on humanity. And yeah, the X-Men were a metaphor for every oppressed minority.

in the seventies, Green Lantern/Green Arrow dealt with pollution, native american rights, racism, and drug use. Spider-Man also did anti-drug stories. Moving into the 80's, gun-control, sexual harrasment, and child abuse were all dealt with in various comics. Hell, there was even a Batman special dealing with landmines!

Then you go undergorund: MAUS was a holocaust survivors story, Cerebus dealt with Dave Sim's views on religion and women. Vertigo pops up and deals with every "social issue" under the son. And yeah, gay characters! dozens of them! all over the place!

issues after issue has been dealt with in comics, and not just avante garde ones, but mainstream ones, too. So if you say comics can't, never have, or shouldn't address social issues, you are a god damn moron. Go entertain yourself by hitting your own head with a hammer until you see the white light.

[Angry Sentinel]

Edit... Go entertain yourself by hitting your own head with a hammer until you see the white light. Sorry, as good as the whole post was, I just needed to let you know I was going to be using this last line! :up:

[Sauron]

there's no connection, just 'cause you want it to it is not going to happen, there is none and that's it, nuff said.

[Elijya]

there's no connection, just 'cause you want it to it is not going to happen, there is none and that's it, nuff said.
dillussional much? :rolleyes:

[littyx]

there's no connection, just 'cause you want it to it is not going to happen, there is none and that's it, nuff said.
I hate when 12 yrs take over their daddies account.

And if their is no connection, like you so eargerly declare. Then the fact that Bryan Singer and Ian McKellan wanted to be a part of the X-Men films would have probably not happned. They were partly, if not mainly, attracted to the films becasue of the correlations between X-Men and homosexuals.

[Elijya]

Uncanny x-Men #292 (and I'm paraphrasing): (xavier speaking to a large crowd) "Together, we can fight for a world where no one is persecuted for their race, religion, species, or sexual orientation."

right out of the Prof's mouth. So go eat it, bigots.

[Lazmarquez]

Uncanny x-Men #292 (and I'm paraphrasing): (xavier speaking to a large crowd) "Together, we can fight for a world where no one is persecuted for their race, religion, species, or sexual orientation."

right out of the Prof's mouth. So go eat it, bigots.

Quotes are a very good thing.. Thank you!
But just to jump in, I feel as though anyone who would dare call themselves a real X-Men fan (Movie or Comics), could not have the audacity to come into this thread and preach their opposition to the ideas being stated. No one is saying that The X-Men are a complete representation of Gay Pride or have no other facets to them. The X-Men are a metaphorical standpoint for the rights of all minorites. It is people like the few who have decided to display their own level of ignorance on this thread that bring upon the same wrath that the Xmen are sworn to protect the world against. No one ever wants to feel as though they are an outisder in this world, just as the mutants want a sense of belonging in their fictional world. So next time one decides to disrespect the morality and judgments of the people who are here to discuss ,in a civil matter, please see yourself right back out of this thread.

There are enough problems with people feeling terrible about who they are to have others do the same on an X-Men thread.. It surprises me to no end how some people treat on another sometimes on these threads. So please, Pick up an X-Men comic, It may do you some good to respect the material and learn something about humane tolerance.

[Kritish]

Sorry, just the thought of Northstar giving Nightcrawler a hummer kind of gives me the creeps.
What's next ? Will Super man be a necrophiliac ?

[Lazmarquez]

You need to be taught tolerance and respect. You are doing nothing but marring your own self growth. I will opt after this post, not to reply to your messages for they do not relate nor respect the subject matter at hand. Back to the topic shall we folks?

[Kritish]

I have nothing against Homosexuality, I just don't like the thought of a character that I've known for years and practically grew up with changed that much.

It's like changing the story and making wolverine a woman .

[littyx]

Yes, you obviously don't have a problem with homosexuals since you just compared them to necrpohliacs.


I can feel the love.

[Valechan]

I'm so going to copy this thread and read it at home. But first.
Being gay myself I've always completely identified with the X-Men because of it. When I knew the X-Men I did not truly know that I was gay (I was young and didn't even think about sex), but I always felt a strong connection to their struggle. It's possible the reason why I love the X-Men world so much.

I know you've been asking for some issues, so I can tell you first Uncanny 414, when Xavier asks Northstar to teach at his school. There's a lot of gay/mutant things there. Another great and overlooked issue is Mystique 13, where Raven encounters a soon-to-be transexual and helps her. It's a BEAUTIFUL story.

I'll read the previous pages more closely and answer accordingly.

[Elijya]

I didn't know you were gay, Sebita

[littyx]

I'm so going to copy this thread and read it at home. But first.
Being gay myself I've always completely identified with the X-Men because of it. When I knew the X-Men I did not truly know that I was gay (I was young and didn't even think about sex), but I always felt a strong connection to their struggle. It's possible the reason why I love the X-Men world so much.

I know you've been asking for some issues, so I can tell you first Uncanny 414, when Xavier asks Northstar to teach at his school. There's a lot of gay/mutant things there. Another great and overlooked issue is Mystique 13, where Raven encounters a soon-to-be transexual and helps her. It's a BEAUTIFUL story.

I'll read the previous pages more closely and answer accordingly.
Thanks Sebita, I look forward to your input.

[bosef982]

Interesting topic, let’s see if we can bring some reason into this and expose the typical double standards that homosexuals are forced to proscribe to everyday. Of all the comments here I’ve read I find Lady Shiva’s the most telling. She says she doesn’t want to see her character changed “that much.” Now, while I’m not a huge fan of changing characters for affirmative action reasons pertaining to sexuality, I think it’s dangerous to implore that being gay is that much a change. I suppose to most it may seem like a big deal. Homosexuals frequently find great identification in the fact that they are gay. And how couldn’t they? Daily they are reminded of how they are different. From not being able to express affection to their partners in a mall, to watching heterocentric media and/or education, or even stuck in a place where they cannot express their sexuality without fear of recrimination. No heterosexual I know can speak to the idea of walking into work the day after Valentine’s Day and making sure you either say “she” instead of “he” when associates as you what you did or refrain from saying anything at all and just appear single and lonely. Daily, heterosexuals are afforded many avenues of expression for their sexuality. Be it from being able to freely talk about their partners without a second though to total strangers, using whatever pronoun they wish, or to simply holding that person’s hand, touching them on the back at a store, or sitting at dinner on a date and feeling that no one is staring at you. The opposite is true – gay equals stares.


I don’t care what people do in their bedrooms, people say. However, homosexuality is not just sex. It is not confined to the bedroom, just as heterosexual relationships are not. Homosexuality evolves in many actions, from dating, to talking, to friends, to who you’re talking to on the phone. Being that we live in a heterosexist society where heterosexuality is presumed normal and standard, of course a heterosexual would say it would be a big change. The entire context of homosexuality being a “big deal” is attributed to homosexuals who allegedly flaunt their sexualities. “Stop being all gay.” However, how can one not seem to hold close to them and identify themselves with something that has garnered them so much hate. Or is the identity itself is not a big deal, created so by the fear and hostility of a intolerant heterosexist society that has, on the surface, become “more tolerant” but in reality has simply become “more subtle.” Nowadays, homosexuals are mainly accepted if and only if they can subscribe to stereotypically straight ideas or lifestyles. Its like mutants accepted that look “normal”, but those more freakish are rejected. The gay debate then becomes something all the more superficial. And it is not because gay people are making it that way – it is not because we want more characters being gay – it is that when we get a gay character, the only way we get it is by sacrificing the individual autonomy of that character to a ridiculous stereotype that produces a sort of subtle comfort to wary heterosexuals. Prime examples are Queer Eye for a Straight Guy and Will and Grace. While humorous in their own right, their self-deprecating natures are really anti-gay in a way. It’s like the ol’ Jim Crow plays where men would slap black tar onto their faces to play black men. Would an African-American back then say, “Woah, we’re making great advances.” No, they’d be offended. Yet homosexuals are so desperate for acceptance, they’ll accept these Oliver Twist handouts as something approaching tolerance and acceptance…

…but it’s always on heterosexual terms. When homosexuals start talking about marriage, adoption, life insurance, visitation rights, estate rights, etc., the debate alters entirely. Suddenly, for straight people, it’s not about acceptance – it’s about homosexuals attempting to degrade “their” institutions that they have so aptly showed an ability to care for with a 50% + divorce rate, child abuse on rise, etc. All of this reinforces this sociological atmosphere conducive to the type of acts seen in the Matthew Shepard case. And yet, gay people make being gay a big deal. When you walk out of a Bennigan’s Restaurant b/c a bunch of football jocks are staring at you and your partner funny, come speak to homosexuals about “big deals.”


So don’t tell people, I”ve heard. Well, then don’t tell me you’re straight. But no, straight is right. And thus, the double standard is exposed for what it is: a hypocritical laziness. Laziness to confront the problems of intolerance and bigotry in a society that’s become all too good in hiding it, and hypocrisy in enjoying the solutions to the problems that other minorities should, but don’t, enjoy. In the end of the day, we find ourselves pawning for a gay character in an X-men comic book – we’ve been reduced to paneled freebies for 2.25 cents.


And there is one distinct trait that homosexuals share with mutants: they must always confront God in their struggles to be viewed as equals. While many minorities have been burdened by religion – homosexuals are the only ones who are actively to this day fighting a battle against the Bible itself. Not even women, who are disparaged in the Bible, have had to fight against the eternal damnation promised to homosexuals.

And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…

…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

[Kritish]

And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…
…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

I'm a guy you know ?

But seriously, it's like changing a characters gender. It's way to much of a change. Whats next, will 'The Spawn' be white ? Will superman be a dude that can be killed by just a bullet ?

[Elijya]

Interesting topic, let’s see if we can bring some reason into this and expose the typical double standards that homosexuals are forced to proscribe to everyday. Of all the comments here I’ve read I find Lady Shiva’s the most telling. She says she doesn’t want to see her character changed “that much.” Now, while I’m not a huge fan of changing characters for affirmative action reasons pertaining to sexuality, I think it’s dangerous to implore that being gay is that much a change. I suppose to most it may seem like a big deal. Homosexuals frequently find great identification in the fact that they are gay. And how couldn’t they? Daily they are reminded of how they are different. From not being able to express affection to their partners in a mall, to watching heterocentric media and/or education, or even stuck in a place where they cannot express their sexuality without fear of recrimination. No heterosexual I know can speak to the idea of walking into work the day after Valentine’s Day and making sure you either say “she” instead of “he” when associates as you what you did or refrain from saying anything at all and just appear single and lonely. Daily, heterosexuals are afforded many avenues of expression for their sexuality. Be it from being able to freely talk about their partners without a second though to total strangers, using whatever pronoun they wish, or to simply holding that person’s hand, touching them on the back at a store, or sitting at dinner on a date and feeling that no one is staring at you. The opposite is true – gay equals stares.
I don’t care what people do in their bedrooms, people say. However, homosexuality is not just sex. It is not confined to the bedroom, just as heterosexual relationships are not. Homosexuality evolves in many actions, from dating, to talking, to friends, to who you’re talking to on the phone. Being that we live in a heterosexist society where heterosexuality is presumed normal and standard, of course a heterosexual would say it would be a big change. The entire context of homosexuality being a “big deal” is attributed to homosexuals who allegedly flaunt their sexualities. “Stop being all gay.” However, how can one not seem to hold close to them and identify themselves with something that has garnered them so much hate. Or is the identity itself is not a big deal, created so by the fear and hostility of a intolerant heterosexist society that has, on the surface, become “more tolerant” but in reality has simply become “more subtle.” Nowadays, homosexuals are mainly accepted if and only if they can subscribe to stereotypically straight ideas or lifestyles. Its like mutants accepted that look “normal”, but those more freakish are rejected. The gay debate then becomes something all the more superficial. And it is not because gay people are making it that way – it is not because we want more characters being gay – it is that when we get a gay character, the only way we get it is by sacrificing the individual autonomy of that character to a ridiculous stereotype that produces a sort of subtle comfort to wary heterosexuals. Prime examples are Queer Eye for a Straight Guy and Will and Grace. While humorous in their own right, their self-deprecating natures are really anti-gay in a way. It’s like the ol’ Jim Crow plays where men would slap black tar onto their faces to play black men. Would an African-American back then say, “Woah, we’re making great advances.” No, they’d be offended. Yet homosexuals are so desperate for acceptance, they’ll accept these Oliver Twist handouts as something approaching tolerance and acceptance…
…but it’s always on heterosexual terms. When homosexuals start talking about marriage, adoption, life insurance, visitation rights, estate rights, etc., the debate alters entirely. Suddenly, for straight people, it’s not about acceptance – it’s about homosexuals attempting to degrade “their” institutions that they have so aptly showed an ability to care for with a 50% + divorce rate, child abuse on rise, etc. All of this reinforces this sociological atmosphere conducive to the type of acts seen in the Matthew Shepard case. And yet, gay people make being gay a big deal. When you walk out of a Bennigan’s Restaurant b/c a bunch of football jocks are staring at you and your partner funny, come speak to homosexuals about “big deals.”
So don’t tell people, I”ve heard. Well, then don’t tell me you’re straight. But no, straight is right. And thus, the double standard is exposed for what it is: a hypocritical laziness. Laziness to confront the problems of intolerance and bigotry in a society that’s become all too good in hiding it, and hypocrisy in enjoying the solutions to the problems that other minorities should, but don’t, enjoy. In the end of the day, we find ourselves pawning for a gay character in an X-men comic book – we’ve been reduced to paneled freebies for 2.25 cents.
And there is one distinct trait that homosexuals share with mutants: they must always confront God in their struggles to be viewed as equals. While many minorities have been burdened by religion – homosexuals are the only ones who are actively to this day fighting a battle against the Bible itself. Not even women, who are disparaged in the Bible, have had to fight against the eternal damnation promised to homosexuals.
And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…
…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

yeah, hi.

I'm not reading that, although I would like to, because I'm sure you make a number of valid and insiteful points. But no, I'm not reading that until put some paragraph spacers inbetween. Would you mind? thanks

[bosef982]

I'm a guy you know ?

But seriously, it's like changing a characters gender. It's way to much of a change. Whats next, will 'The Spawn' be white ? Will superman be a dude that can be killed by just a bullet ?

Your analogy stands on too many illogical premises. And now you're emasculating homosexuals by saying that making a character homosexuals is like changing someone's gender or race or mortal status? Please.

How much does who someone sleep with impact comic books? Tell me? Sure, in some cases, it does. But overall, how many comic stories do we see rest soley on a heterosexual relationship? I'd say maybe 25 to 30%. Now, how many of those heterosexual relationships are soley capalbe of producing the intrinsic relationship drama outside of a homosexual relatinoship? In other words, how would changing such a relationship to a homosexual relationship alter the dramatic mechanics of the story?

The "difference" and "change" you see is heterosexist thinking, plain and simple. And, if anything, a changing of the character is big insofar as a fearful, ignorant heterosexist society draws a constrast as being big. My point, homosexuals have little to do with you dislike of having a character change. A lot of it has to do with narrowminded thinking.

If a writer wanted to alter Northstar and make him straight, I doubt you'd be on these boards screaming at the top of your lungs that's wrong. However, many homosexuals maintain that making Superman gay is a mistake, that changing these characteristics are unneccessary. I find it ironic that many homosexuals are willing to compromise and find common ground, while heterosexuals seem to just freak out and say, "no, you can't do that!" Get real! In real life, guess what, people come out, people accept who they are -- if Cyclops tomorrow was to realize he liked men, it is not totally implausible. If anything, his delay could be attirbuted to a societal atmosphere which makes it hard for one to come out.

The hypocrisy here is stunning to me. And the means to make an analogy are as insultful as they are illogical. Gender change equals sexuality change, please.

Look at Colossus in Ultimate X-Men, how much as he chagned since it's common knowledge that his character is gay. Not much.

Oh wait, you couldn't make Superman gay because gay people...what? Answer that. What stereotypical trait will you throw out that makes it impossible for Superman to be gay. Do you understand the variety of homosexuals that are out there -- or are you just lumping us all into a category where we fall short of performing such straight tasks that neccessiate superhero characters like Superman be straight?

I'd really like to know.

[newwaveboy87]

Oh wait, you couldn't make Superman gay because gay people...what?
have limp wrists!!
would never wear their underwear on the outside - he'd get a total FABULOUS makeover! leather chaps, assless perhaps? grow out the mustache - Superman would be a total bear. grrr!

[Valechan]

I didn't know you were gay, Sebita

Really? I Thought everyone knew... I've stated it more than once... anyway I'm actually a cross-dresser, so it's like stage two of being gay, kinda like when Goku becomes Super Saiyan 2 or something... hehehe

[newwaveboy87]

Really? I Thought anyone knew... I'm actually a cross-dresser, so it's like stage two of being gay, kinda like when Goku becomes Super Saiyan 2 or something... hehehe
oh my god...i can't breathe...laughing...too...much...*cries*

[Kritish]

Really? I Thought everyone knew... I've stated it more than once... anyway I'm actually a cross-dresser, so it's like stage two of being gay, kinda like when Goku becomes Super Saiyan 2 or something... hehehe


TO

MUCH

INFORMATION

[Kritish]

Your analogy stands on too many illogical premises. And now you're emasculating homosexuals by saying that making a character homosexuals is like changing someone's gender or race or mortal status? Please.

How much does who someone sleep with impact comic books? Tell me? Sure, in some cases, it does. But overall, how many comic stories do we see rest soley on a heterosexual relationship? I'd say maybe 25 to 30%. Now, how many of those heterosexual relationships are soley capalbe of producing the intrinsic relationship drama outside of a homosexual relatinoship? In other words, how would changing such a relationship to a homosexual relationship alter the dramatic mechanics of the story?

The "difference" and "change" you see is heterosexist thinking, plain and simple. And, if anything, a changing of the character is big insofar as a fearful, ignorant heterosexist society draws a constrast as being big. My point, homosexuals have little to do with you dislike of having a character change. A lot of it has to do with narrowminded thinking.

If a writer wanted to alter Northstar and make him straight, I doubt you'd be on these boards screaming at the top of your lungs that's wrong. However, many homosexuals maintain that making Superman gay is a mistake, that changing these characteristics are unneccessary. I find it ironic that many homosexuals are willing to compromise and find common ground, while heterosexuals seem to just freak out and say, "no, you can't do that!" Get real! In real life, guess what, people come out, people accept who they are -- if Cyclops tomorrow was to realize he liked men, it is not totally implausible. If anything, his delay could be attirbuted to a societal atmosphere which makes it hard for one to come out.

The hypocrisy here is stunning to me. And the means to make an analogy are as insultful as they are illogical. Gender change equals sexuality change, please.

Look at Colossus in Ultimate X-Men, how much as he chagned since it's common knowledge that his character is gay. Not much.

Oh wait, you couldn't make Superman gay because gay people...what? Answer that. What stereotypical trait will you throw out that makes it impossible for Superman to be gay. Do you understand the variety of homosexuals that are out there -- or are you just lumping us all into a category where we fall short of performing such straight tasks that neccessiate superhero characters like Superman be straight?

I'd really like to know.

It can be argued that Spawn and Blades race dosn't affect the comic that much.
But make them white and watch a fan boy beyotch fest.

[Darthkush]

ummm..Which two Young Avengers are gay? I have issue 1-6, and I think 8 and i don't remember that ever coming up.

[Darthkush]

double post

[Elijya]

ummm..Which two Young Avengers are gay? I have issue 1-6, and I think 8 and i don't remember that ever coming up.
read the letter columns

Hulking and Asgardian are a couple

[Valechan]

I gotta buy that book... anyway, isn't ASgardian now named Wiccan?

[littyx]

Interesting topic, let’s see if we can bring some reason into this and expose the typical double standards that homosexuals are forced to proscribe to everyday. Of all the comments here I’ve read I find Lady Shiva’s the most telling. She says she doesn’t want to see her character changed “that much.” Now, while I’m not a huge fan of changing characters for affirmative action reasons pertaining to sexuality, I think it’s dangerous to implore that being gay is that much a change. I suppose to most it may seem like a big deal. Homosexuals frequently find great identification in the fact that they are gay. And how couldn’t they? Daily they are reminded of how they are different. From not being able to express affection to their partners in a mall, to watching heterocentric media and/or education, or even stuck in a place where they cannot express their sexuality without fear of recrimination. No heterosexual I know can speak to the idea of walking into work the day after Valentine’s Day and making sure you either say “she” instead of “he” when associates as you what you did or refrain from saying anything at all and just appear single and lonely. Daily, heterosexuals are afforded many avenues of expression for their sexuality. Be it from being able to freely talk about their partners without a second though to total strangers, using whatever pronoun they wish, or to simply holding that person’s hand, touching them on the back at a store, or sitting at dinner on a date and feeling that no one is staring at you. The opposite is true – gay equals stares.


I don’t care what people do in their bedrooms, people say. However, homosexuality is not just sex. It is not confined to the bedroom, just as heterosexual relationships are not. Homosexuality evolves in many actions, from dating, to talking, to friends, to who you’re talking to on the phone. Being that we live in a heterosexist society where heterosexuality is presumed normal and standard, of course a heterosexual would say it would be a big change. The entire context of homosexuality being a “big deal” is attributed to homosexuals who allegedly flaunt their sexualities. “Stop being all gay.” However, how can one not seem to hold close to them and identify themselves with something that has garnered them so much hate. Or is the identity itself is not a big deal, created so by the fear and hostility of a intolerant heterosexist society that has, on the surface, become “more tolerant” but in reality has simply become “more subtle.” Nowadays, homosexuals are mainly accepted if and only if they can subscribe to stereotypically straight ideas or lifestyles. Its like mutants accepted that look “normal”, but those more freakish are rejected. The gay debate then becomes something all the more superficial. And it is not because gay people are making it that way – it is not because we want more characters being gay – it is that when we get a gay character, the only way we get it is by sacrificing the individual autonomy of that character to a ridiculous stereotype that produces a sort of subtle comfort to wary heterosexuals. Prime examples are Queer Eye for a Straight Guy and Will and Grace. While humorous in their own right, their self-deprecating natures are really anti-gay in a way. It’s like the ol’ Jim Crow plays where men would slap black tar onto their faces to play black men. Would an African-American back then say, “Woah, we’re making great advances.” No, they’d be offended. Yet homosexuals are so desperate for acceptance, they’ll accept these Oliver Twist handouts as something approaching tolerance and acceptance…

…but it’s always on heterosexual terms. When homosexuals start talking about marriage, adoption, life insurance, visitation rights, estate rights, etc., the debate alters entirely. Suddenly, for straight people, it’s not about acceptance – it’s about homosexuals attempting to degrade “their” institutions that they have so aptly showed an ability to care for with a 50% + divorce rate, child abuse on rise, etc. All of this reinforces this sociological atmosphere conducive to the type of acts seen in the Matthew Shepard case. And yet, gay people make being gay a big deal. When you walk out of a Bennigan’s Restaurant b/c a bunch of football jocks are staring at you and your partner funny, come speak to homosexuals about “big deals.”


So don’t tell people, I”ve heard. Well, then don’t tell me you’re straight. But no, straight is right. And thus, the double standard is exposed for what it is: a hypocritical laziness. Laziness to confront the problems of intolerance and bigotry in a society that’s become all too good in hiding it, and hypocrisy in enjoying the solutions to the problems that other minorities should, but don’t, enjoy. In the end of the day, we find ourselves pawning for a gay character in an X-men comic book – we’ve been reduced to paneled freebies for 2.25 cents.


And there is one distinct trait that homosexuals share with mutants: they must always confront God in their struggles to be viewed as equals. While many minorities have been burdened by religion – homosexuals are the only ones who are actively to this day fighting a battle against the Bible itself. Not even women, who are disparaged in the Bible, have had to fight against the eternal damnation promised to homosexuals.

And then someone like Lady Shiva has the gall and ignorance to come on here and compare gay people to necrophilaics and whine about a character possibly becoming gay…

…as if she had the inkling of intelligence or crucible to understand why the want exists and why that comparisons wrong. It’s pathetic.

Beautiful words Bosef. Really moving. I could relate to almost every word there. Most people just don't get it. They dont. If they knew what it felt like to live a day in our shoes, they'd stop and realize that there ignorant views take a toll on our day to day life. As comfortable as I am in my sexuality and the way I live my life. There are always those there to let me know I'm "different". And I'll never be "normal". And you know what, I say F *ck that.

But that only goes so far. When your family, friends, government, president, and co-workers think that your different and shouldnt be treated like any other person, it definitely takes a tole. I get so frustrated sometimes when I hear people who don't have an inkling of what it is to be homosexual talk about us. That its a choice, that we shouldn't have the same rights, that we cannot raise children. How do they have ANY sort of clue what it is like to be homosexual?

Yes, its a choice! Remember that day when you were 13 and your parents asked what sexual orientation you wanted? Hmm-mm, I've always liked a challenge, so I picked "homosexual". And its been grand ever since! I mean, people think I'm a freak, and I don't have equal rights....buts its a grand life! :rolleyes:

Do you guys hear that?! We don't have equal rights. Its 2005, and there are people in this world, right now, that are legally told they are lesser beings. Especially you adults out there, whenever one of you has something negative to say about a gay person. Think about that 15 yr old boy that gets beat up in school everyday. Think about when kids call him "F@ggot!" in class and most teachers do not protest that. Think about that girl that has tried killing herself because she knows that the people she loves most, will hate her when she tells them who she really is. Think about the older woman that her partner of 25 yrs has passed away, and the govt. has taken every thing they owned together.

People don't realize the severity of the way they discriminate. Even in the most minute way. It still takes a toll. And when I come to a thread like this, and post a simple question about gay people and the X-Men, your discrimination seems pretty ridiculous.

[Angry Sentinel]

Edit...

The "difference" and "change" you see is heterosexist thinking, plain and simple. And, if anything, a changing of the character is big insofar as a fearful, ignorant heterosexist society draws a constrast as being big. My point, homosexuals have little to do with you dislike of having a character change. A lot of it has to do with narrowminded thinking.

If a writer wanted to alter Northstar and make him straight, I doubt you'd be on these boards screaming at the top of your lungs that's wrong. However, many homosexuals maintain that making Superman gay is a mistake, that changing these characteristics are unneccessary. I find it ironic that many homosexuals are willing to compromise and find common ground, while heterosexuals seem to just freak out and say, "no, you can't do that!" Get real! In real life, guess what, people come out, people accept who they are -- if Cyclops tomorrow was to realize he liked men, it is not totally implausible. If anything, his delay could be attirbuted to a societal atmosphere which makes it hard for one to come out.

The hypocrisy here is stunning to me. And the means to make an analogy are as insultful as they are illogical. Gender change equals sexuality change, please.

Your total point is correct! there is a TON of hypocrisy. But this analogy or these examples really dont work because the real or number one problem with changing a comic book character wouldnt rise because of hypocrisy. It is mostly sperned from BONEHEADEDNESS. NO COMIC CHARACTER CAN EVER CHANGE, PERIOD! This rigidness among comic fans is influenced by ethnicity, sexuality, etc, but these are not (IMO) the main reason for the insistance that these characters dont grow and change.

I mean really... change Rogue's underwear from purple to pink and SOMEONE will have a problem with this(not because of hypocrisy though). Change Batman's car from a custom job to a T-top and millions will cry (not because of hypocrisy). So it just completely absurd to change the actual sexuality of an established comic character, because as we all know, by the current homosexual stereotypes it will change tons of other aspects of the character's persona... have limp wrists!!
would never wear their underwear on the outside - he'd get a total FABULOUS makeover! leather chaps, assless perhaps? grow out the mustache - Superman would be a total bear. grrr!... and this would cause so many brain tumors, again not from hypocrisy, simply because it's CHANGE...and A LOT OF IT!

If someone were to change Northstar from "Gay" to "straight" there wouldnt be as much noise made about the "sexuality change" (and your right, this is truly sad) as there would be the fact that the writer (who-ever the blessed soul is) would have the audacity to make a change at all... "You bast**d, You killed kenny!"

So as you can see the "changing a comic book character to illustrate hipocracy" arguement is kind of nullified by fanboys insistance that their characters never change at all, for any reason. Again, this is just me being anal, because I totally agree that there is an astounding amount of hypocrisy. :up:

[Elijya]

TO

MUCH

INFORMATION
why don't you go vandalize some of his property if it upsets you so much? cause that's what you do when someone is different from you, right?

[Elijya]

Though she's not an x-man, There is one character I would really like to bring up - Moon Dragon. It might have been speculated for decades that she was gay, but it was only revealed in Peter David's Captain Marvel series in the late 90's, and it was incredibly well done. The story wasn't simply Moon Dragon coming out because she'd known all along, it was her discovering her sexuality herself. It worked completely for her character, and it gave her far more depth than perhaps ANYTHING that's ever been done with her before

[Lazmarquez]

Beautiful words Bosef. Really moving. I could relate to almost every word there. Most people just don't get it. They dont. If they knew what it felt like to live a day in our shoes, they'd stop and realize that there ignorant views take a toll on our day to day life. As comfortable as I am in my sexuality and the way I live my life. There are always those there to let me know I'm "different". And I'll never be "normal". And you know what, I say F *ck that.

But that only goes so far. When your family, friends, government, president, and co-workers think that your different and shouldnt be treated like any other person, it definitely takes a tole. I get so frustrated sometimes when I hear people who don't have an inkling of what it is to be homosexual talk about us. That its a choice, that we shouldn't have the same rights, that we cannot raise children. How do they have ANY sort of clue what it is like to be homosexual?

Yes, its a choice! Remember that day when you were 13 and your parents asked what sexual orientation you wanted? Hmm-mm, I've always liked a challenge, so I picked "homosexual". And its been grand ever since! I mean, people think I'm a freak, and I don't have equal rights....buts its a grand life! :rolleyes:

Do you guys hear that?! We don't have equal rights. Its 2005, and there are people in this world, right now, that are legally told they are lesser beings. Especially you adults out there, whenever one of you has something negative to say about a gay person. Think about that 15 yr old boy that gets beat up in school everyday. Think about when kids call him "F@ggot!" in class and most teachers do not protest that. Think about that girl that has tried killing herself because she knows that the people she loves most, will hate her when she tells them who she really is. Think about the older woman that her partner of 25 yrs has passed away, and the govt. has taken every thing they owned together.

People don't realize the severity of the way they discriminate. Even in the most minute way. It still takes a toll. And when I come to a thread like this, and post a simple question about gay people and the X-Men, your discrimination seems pretty ridiculous.

I have seen you around on these X-Boards for a while, and we never have necessarily exchanged words, and after this post, it makes me sad that we haven't. You are wonderful. Thank you for your excellent post and thread and remember you are an amazing human being. Thank you. :)

[littyx]

I have seen you around on these X-Boards for a while, and we never have necessarily exchanged words, and after this post, it makes me sad that we haven't. You are wonderful. Thank you for your excellent post and thread and remember you are an amazing human being. Thank you. :)
Thank you Laz. Very much. I just don't see how people, with all of the information out there today can still be so ignorant. Open your eyes, your mind. Learn something new. I know for a fact that, even if I were not gay. I would still be non-discriminatory. Whats the point? Why waste your time dealing with sterotypes and BS? Be an adult.

Again, thank you.

[newwaveboy87]

Thank you Laz. Very much. I just don't see how people, with all of the information out there today can still be so ignorant. Open your eyes, your mind. Learn something new. I know for a fact that, even if I were not gay. I would still be non-discriminatory. Whats the point? Why waste your time dealing with sterotypes and BS? Be an adult.

Again, thank you.
a lot of people are afraid of change, be it within themselves or within society as a whole. sad but true.

[tedw]

littyx - are you asking for examples from the comic books alone? What about thoughts based on comics & film?

[littyx]

Tedw, anything you want to add would be great.

[tedw]

I'll try to write something prolific later - I'm at work at the moment (shh, don't tell!). ;)

If your friend (or is it you doing the paper?) wants some references, there's of course the closely-patterned "coming out" scene of X2.

There were storylines in the main X-Men books with Iceman and his father, who was prejudiced both against his son as a mutant, and against Bobby's Asian girlfriend, Opal.

Early on in the comics, Bobby dealt with Cloud, a girl he was romantically interested in who turned out to be a nebulous energy form that flipped back and forth between female and male.

There's the obvious Northstar and his crush on teammate Sasquatch.

There was a good story that might help, because it's not overt (it's not about homosexuality) but deals with prejudice - it was issue #3 or 4 of Generation X, featuring Banshee and the kids trying to find out what was going on with a mutant kid who was holed up in a school with his teacher. The kid was physically deformed because of a birth defect, and people just assumed he was a mutant and hated him regardless. Or as Jubilee said, he had the bum rap of being a mutant but none of the advantages (powers). A good example of a story about bigotry and misunderstanding, imo.

I'll see if I can remember more, if these help at all.

[JP]

Just read through this thread. Some very interesting posts from some of you. I doubt there is much I can add, everything has already been said.

As an X-fan, I didn't really realize it before, but I connect a lot with Nightcrawler. Believing in something that is generally against your existence. I, myself, am gay and I also consider myself to be Christian.

It's been difficult for me throughout the years having faith in something that doesn't agree with what I'm doing. Sometimes I feel at ends, because I may agree with something on one side, and on something else with the other. And at the same time, I tend to feel cast out by both groups. I’m not accepted by most Christians because I’m sinning against God. At the same time, I’m not accepted among the gay community because as soon as they hear the word ‘Christian’ they jump to this conclusion that you’re this evil, close minded bigot that hates homos.

So yeah, I’ve had that on my mind for a long time now. It’s nice to get it off my chest.

[littyx]

JP. I'm Catholic, went to Catholic school for 10 years. So I, like yourself, struggle with my religion at times as well. But what I did is educated myself. I've read the bible, read reports on them, and came to the conclusion that if anyone read the bible, they would know that if we (homosexuals) are going to hell, then we're all going to hell.

Besides that, I may have a problem with some Christians, but thats not what my faith is about. My faith is between God and myself. No one else. Not the church, not the Pope, not the extremists. No one can dictate my relationship with God. Only I can.

[littyx]

Thanks again guys for your comments. My friend is coming over tonigt and he's going to review the posts on here for his essay. We're also suppossed to watch X2 tonight. Thanks again.

[JP]

JP. I'm Catholic, went to Catholic school for 10 years. So I, like yourself, struggle with my religion at times as well. But what I did is educated myself. I've read the bible, read reports on them, and came to the conclusion that if anyone read the bible, they would know that if we (homosexuals) are going to hell, then we're all going to hell.

Besides that, I may have a problem with some Christians, but thats not what my faith is about. My faith is between God and myself. No one else. Not the church, not the Pope, not the extremists. No one can dictate my relationship with God. Only I can.

Basically. If I'm going to hell for my sins, then everyone else is too.

[squeekness]

A book everyone should read (review taken from my personal Bible study)


Helminiak, Daniel ~ What the Bible Really says about Homosexuality.

(Discussion class) A most excellent look at Scripture and what can go wrong when translating from ancient texts. He says the best way to look at the issue is in context of the times the Scripture was written. What did homosexuality mean to the authors. A close examination of the Greek reveals not a blanket condemnation of homosexual behavior, but of it's abuses (exploitation, pederest behavior, prostitution, rape, ect...). His arguments are supported by the Apologetic Letters of Justin Martyr to the Roman Court. The concerns of Leviticus reveal more of maintaining Jewish identity (vrs. Canaanites), than homosexual acts themselves. Was a good book and really made ya think. ****

Basically, his arguments are that the Bible (and certianly Jesus never said a peep about it) doesn't give an outright condemnation of homosexuality if you look at it carefully. Context is important. Sodom and Gommorrah were punished not for homosexual activity, but because they violated the rules of hospitality. Angels came to visit and were treated rudely. What is condemned is the old practices of exploitation of children --forced castration (I mean how many enuchs actually volunteered for that, jeez!) and the sex trade that created child prostitutes.

We will be judged by what we do, not our sexuality, I say. Did we help the poor or anyone who asked? Did we help and honor the members of our family? Did we always do the best job we could do? Did we do our very best not to hurt anyone? Those are things God will see, I think.

[squeekness]

I was at Mass this morning, thinking and praying about all of you and especially my most dearest JP, and was pleased when the Lord offered up this reading for me to pass on to all of you. I put it in the context of a message I wish to say to all of you, something I doubt the anti-bigotry doctrine of Xavier would find incompatable.

On the condemnation of homosexuals by God I (squeekness) have this to offer: fear not His judgement. Legalism (religion by rules) is flawed because it draws us away from that which matters most to God – compassion and mercy. It is the reason Jesus attacked the Paraisees so bitterly. The Gospels are conspicuously silent on the matter of homosexuality, but Jesus was never silent on that which matters most to God.

A reading from the book of Matthew:

Jesus said to his disciples: "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?’ And the King will say to them in reply, ‘Amen I say to you, whatever you did for one of the least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

You may be homosexuals, but it's your behavior in life that matters most. Jesus also said, "I desire compassion, not a sacrifice." He wants us to be good to one another. "Love your nieghbor as you love yourself." Do this and everything else will fall into place. You will not be condemned for your sexuality, only for a lack of compassion. God is not rejecting you, please do not reject Him because society (which is wrong about a great many things) condemns you. You can be certain He will condemn any self righteous Christian who degrades or humliates any gay person because that Christian has shown no compassion. YOU are the least of His and important and loved by God, never forget that. :D

[JP]

Wow, Squeek. Thanks for that.

[squeekness]

Wow, Squeek. Thanks for that.Any time, pop tart. ;)

[newwaveboy87]

that definitely deserves a big thank you.
group hug anyone?

[OutcryX]

Amen.

[squeekness]

*squeekness approves of group hugs and gives one out to everybody* :D

[newwaveboy87]

hooray!!

[Valechan]

I sign in for the group hug.

What truly astounds me, even to this day, is how much people post just to bother, especially on threads as sensitive as this. Everytime there is a gay related topic, there is always one saying bad things about us. It gets truly annoying.

On the subject of changing a character's sexuality. Well if not done correctly it can be a tremendous stupid move. These things have to happen naturally, no one wakes up and says "Hey, I think I might be gay!" just out of the blue. A character like, for example, Cyclops, could not do it. However a character like Storm might easily be "turned" into a lesbian, there is back history to support that (her strong relationship with Yukio and her love/hate with Callisto for example). Overall I advise greatly against changing a character's sexuality if it has not been implied previously. Another example, I've always thought of Remy and Logan as bisexuals, so it wouldn't be too weird to see them "doing" it or hinting at it, but it would be with someone like say Bishop.

Elija, I was a very big fan of CAptain Marvel, but due to big problems in 2002 I had to give up. Since then I did find out about Heather's sexuality (in a handbook of all places), could you tell me the issues where it was covered? My last Cap Marvel was issue 29, one issue away from a saga in the 2099 timeline which name I cannot recall.

[squeekness]

On the subject of changing a character's sexuality. Well if not done correctly it can be a tremendous stupid move. These things have to happen naturally, no one wakes up and says "Hey, I think I might be gay!" just out of the blue. A character like, for example, Cyclops, could not do it. However a character like Storm might easily be "turned" into a lesbian, there is back history to support that (her strong relationship with Yukio and her love/hate with Callisto for example). Overall I advise greatly against changing a character's sexuality if it has not been implied previously. Another example, I've always thought of Remy and Logan as bisexuals, so it wouldn't be too weird to see them "doing" it or hinting at it, but it would be with someone like say Bishop.

It's interesting that you say you see both Logan and Remy as bi-sexual. I see Gambit this way, but I never have with Logan, not in the comics. I have read some awesome fanfiction though, that paints Logan this way, and in the vast majority of the cases, it's Remy he's paired with, never Bishop. You wouldn't see Logan with anyone as serious as Bishop (I think anyway). He would need someone more like our playful little thief to lighten him up and make him laugh. Logan has always been drawn to those who live life to the fullest and Remy certainly qualifies. :up:

[MilkmanDan]

It's interesting that you say you see both Logan and Remy as bi-sexual. I see Gambit this way, but I never have with Logan, not in the comics. I have read some awesome fanfiction though, that paints Logan this way, and in the vast majority of the cases, it's Remy he's paired with, never Bishop. You wouldn't see Logan with anyone as serious as Bishop (I think anyway). He would need someone more like our playful little thief to lighten him up and make him laugh. Logan has always been drawn to those who live life to the fullest and Remy certainly qualifies. :up:

What, no mention of Logan/Scott pairing? Those two have more chemistry than most of the actual X-couples.:D

Oh, and Logan has had affairs with those who live life to the fullest, but his true loves have always been the less exciting women, like Rose, Jean and Mariko.

[squeekness]

What, no mention of Logan/Scott pairing? Those two have more chemistry than most of the actual X-couples.:D

Oh, and Logan has had affairs with those who live life to the fullest, but his true loves have always been the less exciting women, like Rose, Jean and Mariko.Actually I have read a couple with the Logan/Scott that were well done, but not as a permanent love interest. Just kind of a slam bam, thank ya whatever. :D And you are right about Logan's love affairs, I think that only adds to my theory that a Logan /Bishop pairing wouldn't work, Bishop isn't like any of those girls either. :)

[Valechan]

When I picture Logan having sex with a guy, it's always a very young, very demure queer guy, sort of like Cypher, you know, kinda girlish...

[squeekness]

When I picture Logan having sex with a guy, it's always a very young, very demure queer guy, sort of like Cypher, you know, kinda girlish...LOL. :D I have no memory of Cyber being so girlish or demure. Perhaps it's time to drag out the back issues....

[pyromaniac]

Just had to do this.

Great posts, everyone. And I mean everyone. Well, those who know the thick and thin of this very demarcated issue at hand. :D

:p

I don't think I have the time to pour out my entire life story on here, but generally speaking, I'd like to add that confrontations of homosexuality aren't necessarily always bad.

I had a great upbringing. I knew from almost I was born that I was gay, and it felt natural, and the desires and thoughts were just as much a part of me as breathing, living was.

My family, friends, even at school, knew, and I came out to both Catholic schools, the second high school with which I had better consequences.

The first - I was still a little young and learning how to navigate my way into this world, so in a way, I brought it on myself... But I knew generally, I'd never cop such flak the way you guys have been talking about.

It's Australia. It's a society of people where they won't judge, persecute or string you up with ropes.

But that's me. I had good vibes about people, and knew that when, how and why I came out, they'd have to deal in different ways, but pretty much with indifference.

The only 'struggle' if any that was directly linked to sexuality, was that it does NOT make for a good coffee table conversation - ie the straights versus one gay, if you get my drift... :)

But in times of one-on-one, the most loyal will ask you what it's like to be gay, even going so far to coaxing me to tell them about the finer details of.. sex. And this guy had a girlfriend; and he's straight, don't worry.

Look, bosef wrote a brilliant message: succinct, hard hitting, and blows the lids of all cylinders, because that's what the people of ignorance, hypocrisy and subliminal judgement need. I mean, anything we write, we set the record straight.

There's a link that, while long, makes you think on the other side of heterosexuality: why is this not a choice? Who decides we wake up one day and decide we're heterosexual....? Are we persecuted for this, when we go to a school full of gay students...?

muggle.net (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=76035)

[newwaveboy87]

pyro you help to prove my theory that every other guy in Australia is gay...woot. i wanna go there so badly...:(

[littyx]

Seriously newwave, that Australian accent is..........hot!

[Valechan]

Let's all go to Australia then!!

[Spiff]

But Littyx isn't everything in australia hot!?!

[newwaveboy87]

Let's all go to Australia then!!
yeah road trip!
sorta...kinda....but not really...

[littyx]

But Littyx isn't everything in australia hot!?!
Yes. I had the oppurtunity to go this past winter. My friends moved there for 6 months, but I didnt have the $2000 to go. Im still kicking myself for not going.

But I'm going to London this winter. Maybe I'll fall in love and end up living there and then learn how to use pounds instead of dollars, and drink tea. Highly doubtful....but I can dream.

[aaron]

Yes. I had the oppurtunity to go this past winter. My friends moved there for 6 months, but I didnt have the $2000 to go. Im still kicking myself for not going.

But I'm going to London this winter. Maybe I'll fall in love and end up living there and then learn how to use pounds instead of dollars, and drink tea. Highly doubtful....but I can dream.

cool, where in london?

[littyx]

I'm not sure. Wherever my friend decides to move. He's moving there for a 6 month work program. So me and a few friends are going to visit and stay with him while he's there.

I heard this is the coldest winter they have had in 10 yrs.

[aaron]

my sister who lives in hampstead told me its about -4

[littyx]

-4?! F *ck it, Im staying in L.A.! haha

[newwaveboy87]

i miss LA so much...:(

[littyx]

Did you live here before newwave?

Its freezing in L.A. today. Its 60 degrees! Thats blasphemy!

[newwaveboy87]

i was born there. what? a native!? :eek:
but yeah, born, lived there until i was 10. go back and visit all the time.

Norwalk pride yo!

[littyx]

Where do u live now?

[newwaveboy87]

Austin, TX

[littyx]

Oh.

[newwaveboy87]

yeah, its alright. it's no LA though.

[littyx]

I love L.A. I really do. I've been to New York a few times, and as much as I love it there. L.A. is definitely my cup of tea. U can drive around, and see the scenery all while being in the city. NYC is much more fast paced with a lot more architecture and not so much nature.

[newwaveboy87]

i LOVE the beach.
*plays with surf board necklace*
i have fond memories.

[pyromaniac]

pyro you help to prove my theory that every other guy in Australia is gay...woot. i wanna go there so badly...:(

I wish. :)

Actually, I have a great boyfriend. No problems as far as the societal spectrum is concerned. Any questions, becase this might open a new can of worms (in a good way).

Plenty of candy here though. Yum.

littyx - who me? :confused:

newwaveboy - why did you move out of LA?

Seems we each all have a product of an environment to love. :)

[littyx]

Im confused by your question pyro.^

[newwaveboy87]

i moved out cause my step-dad got a job out here. so we all had to pack up and move.

[pyromaniac]

Im confused by your question pyro.^

'That Australian accent was so... hot!

:o :p

[littyx]

Yes, they are. If a guy is ugly, and he has an australian accent, it usually makes up for it all. Haha.

[newwaveboy87]

any accent really...

[littyx]

Well, for me its Australian, then British, then Irish, then Scottish.

Then Ebonyx.


(The last 1 was a joke)

[tedw]

British and Irish accents are nice.

[newwaveboy87]

British, Scottish, Australian - all nice.
i like Canadian ones too. :p

[pyromaniac]

Well, for me its Australian, then British, then Irish, then Scottish.

Then Ebonyx.


(The last 1 was a joke)

Hiya mate! :D

Want a porker on the barbecue...?

[newwaveboy87]

Hiya mate! :D

Want a porker on the barbecue...?
that sounds dirty. haha.

we should turn this into the SHH! Official Homosexuals Thread.

[littyx]

Hiya mate! :D

Want a porker on the barbecue...?
I don't know what you just said but I want 4 of them.:eek:

[littyx]

we should turn this into the SHH! Official Homosexuals Thread.
I love it. Let's do it.

[newwaveboy87]

awesome.
hi my name is Jason. and i like boys....a lot. :D

[pyromaniac]

*clears his throat*

Hi, I'm William and I like men... a lot.

:D

Throws four porkers in littyx's direction and hopes he makes a good meal of them... wisely.

[Tempest Raging]

I agree with the comment about the X-men's origination. I have a huge leather-bound anthology of the entire Marvel Universe (as I am sure a TON of people on these posts have), and it makes specific mention of the fact that the X-men were conceptually born as a response to a time in American history where there were several majority/minorty, supression/opression conflicts. I believe the book mentions McCarthyism, civil rights, womens' rights, and later, the advent of "gay" culture (I think it makes specific mention of the first gay mutant). I might be melding two different passages together, but you get the idea.

In addition, it is worth mentioning that the X-men are unique within the Marvel universe and comics in general for staying on the forefront of minority representation. Storm was the first dominant African American woman pretty much anywhere in contemporary comics.

More than anything the X-men create a culture of bonded identity. Why do gay people gather together in specific places and at specific times? Because together we are stonger than we are apart. Together we can feel accepted and know that we are not alone. And like alternative sexuality's many faces (bisexual, gay, transexual, cross-dressers, etc), the X-men are united by a common difference, yet individually unique in their expression of it.

Growing up as a gay child isn't easy. And, many years before I could ever tell myself I was gay, I could lose myself in an X-men comic book, admiring the strength and valour and...worth...of these people who were different yet still virtuous. I could read them and feel like I wasn't alone.

[Metathron]

Wow, there's quite a little gay community here, I see. Well, I might as well join in myself. ;)

[Kritish]

What, no mention of Logan/Scott pairing? Those two have more chemistry than most of the actual X-couples.:D

Oh, and Logan has had affairs with those who live life to the fullest, but his true loves have always been the less exciting women, like Rose, Jean and Mariko.

WTF !?

Whoever made wolvi gay shall suffer the fate of giving Rosie O'Donnell a rectal exam !

[newwaveboy87]

...i can't do it....

[pyromaniac]

Wolverine gay... Mmm - good enough for me!

*goes into fantasy territory*

[newwaveboy87]

i want Angel or Iceman to be gay...:)

[littyx]

I want Hugh Jackman to be gay............wait............

[Autobot_prime]

OK, alot of comments have been made about Wolverine beeing gay or bi, well this should be obvious. I mean he firt appeared in 1974. Look at gay sheek in the 1970's. Look at the Village People. they were a bunch of hary macho men in colorful outfits. Wolverine is a hary macho man in yellow spandex for cryn out loud. Hes not just gay, hes a '70s gay icon. hes a walking gay pride parade. his look couldnt be more flaming if Jhonny Sorm set him on fire. And my wife (yes im streight, get over it) says theres no way a streight man has that much sex appeal (unless youre James Marsters, hell im a streight man and I'd do HIM, lol). Bottom line, if WOlverine isnt an openly gay charecter, he definitly has an abundence of gay overtones. Hes the He-Man of the X-Men. Nuff Said.

[Valechan]

The yellow spandex wolvie isn't gay. The morrison leather shirtless Wolvie is :D

[Autobot_prime]

The yellow spandex wolvie isn't gay. The morrison leather shirtless Wolvie is :D


well styles change with the times, lol. :)

[Autobot_prime]

Hey i just got an idea, If styles DO change with the times than its time Wolverine got a Queer Eye makeover. Hell, I need a Queer Eye makeover. LMAO

[bosef982]

God how I wish sometimes I could become "gay Magneto" start a war, and just finish it all.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211045

[littyx]

Hey, thanks for posting that bosef. And I thought there were closeminded people in the X boards.

[cookiva]

.....I walked into here to put a great post, but then I see all of whats happened to this thread......tee hee.

[newwaveboy87]

Hey, thanks for posting that bosef. And I thought there were closeminded people in the X boards.
no joke.

OmGz SuPeRmAn KaNt B gAy!!!!!!11!!

what the hell....shut the punk up!:down :mad:

[HUMAN]

Being a mutant isn't a choice.

[littyx]

.....I walked into here to put a great post, but then I see all of whats happened to this thread......tee hee.
Please bring this thread back to life Cookiva.

Not to say that it was dead or anything.....

[newwaveboy87]

all the gay guys on the Hype! can add me on myspace if they want too!
www.myspace.com/lockshockbarre17

so can you damn breeders if you want too.

[littyx]

we should turn this into the SHH! Official Homosexuals Thread.
Well since this is kind of the Official Homosexuals thread. Did anyone get to see Brokeback Mountain? I saw it last night. After seeing it, I dont ever think I'll be the same. It was beautiful. I'm glad to see its getting recognized as well. 7 golden Glode nominations!:up:

[newwaveboy87]

i haven't seen it yet. it's not out here in TX yet...:(

[cookiva]

i haven't seen it yet. it's not out here in TX yet...:(

Its out here in Dallas. Im surprised its not in Austin....

[cookiva]

Here NewWave....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/cinemashowtimes?location=austin,tx;range=20m

[newwaveboy87]

man...that theater is kinda far away...it'll totally be worth it though.

[LittleMissVixen]

Great movie....I'd love to see a spinnoff with Gambit and Iceman, 'Brokeback X-Men'


"I wish I could quit you, mon ami"

[cookiva]

man...that theater is kinda far away...it'll totally be worth it though.

I drove 20 minutes from my house in Dallas to get to my theater. 50 from my dorm....

[littyx]

Don't feel bad guys, in its first week of release here in Los Angeles, it was only released in one theatre! One theatre! I was pissed. Thank God it's opened in more since then. Its in about 6 theatres now in L.A. The company is releasing it in more theatres now all over the country.

[LittleMissVixen]

Love the new avatar litty

[littyx]

Thanks a lot Miss Vixen. Can u even tell what it is?

Damn you 50x50 pixels! Damn you to hell!

[newwaveboy87]

hotties Heath and Jake in character.
nice.

[Valechan]

I do wish they air that movie here in Argentina... else I'm gonna have to wait for the DVD release... I really wann see it!!!

The X-Men version should have Cannoball and Cypher, I mean, Cannonball comes from a farm, and Cypher ... I dunno, I always pictured htem together.

[Morgoth]

Crap like this is so stupid, there have been a few threads like this before, just 'cause some gay guy wants to make a connection doesn't mean there is one, and there is not! Get over it. You wanna' watch something gay go watch the O.C., or anything on VH1 and MTV. :down :mad:

[littyx]

Crap like this is so stupid, there have been a few threads like this before, just 'cause some gay guy wants to make a connection doesn't mean there is one, and there is not! Get over it. You wanna' watch something gay go watch the O.C., or anything on VH1 and MTV. :down :mad:
Hey Morgoth, I know u have a lot on your mind so you must've of got confused, but the "Pent Up Bigot Thread" is on the other board. I know its difficult when you have things on your mind like "Whens the new Eminem CD coming out?" or "When is my AA meeting?" or "Will that new coffee table fit in my trailer?", but you gotta figure it out Morgoth. It's not too difficult.

[JP]

Crap like this is so stupid, there have been a few threads like this before, just 'cause some gay guy wants to make a connection doesn't mean there is one, and there is not! Get over it. You wanna' watch something gay go watch the O.C., or anything on VH1 and MTV.

:down :o

[Valechan]

"Will that new coffee table fit in my trailer?"

LOL I just had an image of a really fat balding man holding a beer can with a white sleevless shirt saying that line...

And Morgoth honey, no wonder Manwë decided to send you to the Abyss of Forever Darkness or whatever the name was... you are in the dark truly. To properly ascertain the connection between X-Men and Gay-Men do read the first few pages of this great thread.

[pyromaniac]

Crap like this is so stupid, there have been a few threads like this before, just 'cause some gay guy wants to make a connection doesn't mean there is one, and there is not! Get over it. You wanna' watch something gay go watch the O.C., or anything on VH1 and MTV. :down :mad:

Even heterosexual men can recognise the parallels between Xmen and the persecution of minority groups, one of which includes the homosexual community.

Why do you think heterosexual comic writers elucidate this very important subtext that way...?

[pyromaniac]

Being a mutant isn't a choice.

Being a heterosexual isn't a choice either.

[newwaveboy87]

Being a heterosexual isn't a choice either.
good point.:):up:

[pyromaniac]

I linked a mugglenet.com thread a few posts back - it makes many very, very good points on what it's like to be on the other side of the fence of, ie the persecution of heterosexuality.

It makes you think.

By the way - bisexuality is a lot harder to gauge, but it perhaps is a little more prevalent, and existing, than exclusive homosexuality itself.

[cookiva]

Crap like this is so stupid, there have been a few threads like this before, just 'cause some gay guy wants to make a connection doesn't mean there is one, and there is not! Get over it. You wanna' watch something gay go watch the O.C., or anything on VH1 and MTV. :down :mad:

Come on Morgoth. To say something like this is stupid in itself....

[littyx]

How's the accent pyro?

[littyx]

Hey guys. I just checked fandango.com and Brokeback Mountain is playing in a bunch of theatres in my area. They released it in a lot more theatres everywhere now so check your guys' areas.

[cookiva]

Im going to see it again on Tuesday, Litty

[littyx]

Yeah. Im going tonight again. My parents wanna see it so Im gonna take them also.

[Valerijan]

===

[newwaveboy87]

I linked a mugglenet.com thread a few posts back - it makes many very, very good points on what it's like to be on the other side of the fence of, ie the persecution of heterosexuality.
i can safely say, i have yet to persecue a heterosexual for being a heterosexual.

[cookiva]

Yeah. Im going tonight again. My parents wanna see it so Im gonna take them also.

So do mine!!!!:up: :up: :O


Ill go without them,though....

[cookiva]

i can safely say, i have yet to persecue a heterosexual for being a heterosexual.

But its so fun....?

[newwaveboy87]

But its so fun....?
PICK A SIDE!!

[cookiva]

PICK A SIDE!!

But thats what you want.....then I would fall into your trap....

[newwaveboy87]

you're already in my trap.

[cookiva]

Ughh, I have to take my sister to see it tomorrow.....

[newwaveboy87]

...tanget:confused:

[cookiva]

....brokeback....

Ya, ADD= fun for the whole family....

[newwaveboy87]

i have ADD right now.

get your aim fixed...damn it.

and i miss your myspace messages to me!:(

[cookiva]

i have ADD right now.

get your aim fixed...damn it.

and i miss your myspace messages to me!:(

well then, you should check your myspace more often....im waiting online in the fun emo world....

[newwaveboy87]

isn't it weird how you sent me one just as i posted that! :eek:
what does it mean?

[cookiva]

....that you and I have another psycic mind like, ala the one JP and I have?

[newwaveboy87]

or we're meant to be?

either way.

[cookiva]

....or we just kick ass.....

[newwaveboy87]

i'll let you fill in the blank.

[cookiva]

aww, fine...

"Gay Cowboys" is what my friends call Brokeback Mountain. Do you have a cowboy hat?

[newwaveboy87]

my sister has a pink one...i could put it on for you.

[cookiva]

Hahaha, I have a straw hat....im the worst cowboy in texas....

[newwaveboy87]

pssh...i don't know how to ride a horse...or anything for that matter.

[cookiva]

...hehe, funny jokes....in my head.....dirty ones.....


But seriously, I can ride a horse. I learned when I was living in Belguim...

[newwaveboy87]

i just realized how dirty that was....oh my...:O

[cookiva]

You completly walked into that one...


are you sure that you didnt know what you were saying???

[newwaveboy87]

yeah, i'm not in a "dirrty joke" state of mind right now...so yeah...the brain is set to naive good Catholic school boy.

[littyx]

My my my my my. The thread I have created has turned into something completely different.

Anyway folks, add me on myspace. http://www.myspace.com/urban_g6

[JP]

I think we all have you already. :p

[newwaveboy87]

My my my my my. The thread I have created has turned into something completely different.

Anyway folks, add me on myspace. http://www.myspace.com/urban_g6
*adds to friends*

[pyromaniac]

How's the accent pyro?

What accent? :confused:

And newwaveboy87 - but one can persecute on grounds for stupidity. :p

[littyx]

Your AUSTRALIAN accent!

[cookiva]

hawt

[newwaveboy87]

And newwaveboy87 - but one can persecute on grounds for stupidity. :p

i know when i've been outwitted...:p

[pyromaniac]

i know when i've been outwitted...:p

Oh no, not you. You don't count. I think... :)

littyx - I don't think I have one. :(

But I do say mate a lot. :)

MAAAAAAAAAAAAATE.......

[pyromaniac]

Double post. My first time! :D

[littyx]

Thanks for the myspizzle comment newwave.


pyro-your 1st double post! Your like....not a virgin anymore!

[pyromaniac]

I'll aim for triple post then. On principle of an 'accident', of course.

;)

So, anyone currently in a relationship, and what is it like for you...?

[newwaveboy87]

me?
relationship?

*dies of laughter*

[littyx]

Relationship? No. I would like to be. Basically every person I like is a huge waste of time.

[cookiva]

.....shall I let out a big laugh, pyro?

No, no relationship...

[pyromaniac]

LMAO... I mean, why not...? :confused:

What are your expectations, if any? Are they realistic? (Don't confuse that with cynicism though :p). Do you have any ideals, wishes, desires, and how would you want to be or are in relation to other people whom you may like to be with...?

What's your current environment, and how has the past favoured you? That is, family and friend alike in all-encompassing embrace of your sexuality and nature and happiness, or of the sticks-and-stones variety?

Do you have a strong support circle of gay and/or straight friends? Do you yearn for one world or detest being in the one you are in, or even the inverse opposite, or even both?!

As Wolverine says:

"I'm a creature of the wild. I hate cities... hate civilization with all its idiot rules. Gimme the free, open, elemental spaces of my mountains where a man holds his fate in his own hands. No lies there. No deception, no compromise. So why, I wonder, do I love this land, this city? It's probably the most structured on Earth, laced tight with centuries of tradition and ritual, covering every conceivable aspect of public and private life. I was born to one world. But I choose to be part of the other."
-- (Kitty Pryde and Wolverine 3)

I know, I know... taken out of context, but I find the last line fascinating for some reason. Of course, not all of us need never to compromise ourselves, and never feel conflicted about the beliefs in love and the reality of another, and whether if it is true or different of same-sex love versus heterosexual love dependong on environmental construct.

To answer the question I asked on here by the way: yes, I'm in a relationship with my dearly loved boyfriend, and it's honkin' along nicely three years now. :)

[newwaveboy87]

i like boys who lie to me.
i like boys who don't know i exist.
i like boys who are naughty.
i like boys who are just coming out, and aren't "ready" for anything, then they turn into big time sluts.

:(

[cookiva]

......please answer my myspace message, NewWave...

[newwaveboy87]

you're a good guy Ben.
so why do you hang around those 'friends' of yours again?

[cookiva]

Because of what you said....they are my friends...

Do I have to act like Xavier again? They fear what they dont know, and they must learn to not fear such a small thing...

[newwaveboy87]

i would've told them off months ago.
and then, very graphically, described every emotion i was going through.
yet, it wouldn't end there - i'll also go into detail about all the parts i like on guys.

this is the difference between you and i - i'm a *****, you're a nice boy.

[littyx]

Newwave, your sig scares me. I used to go to these clubs when i was 18 and they'd play that song. Still creeps me out til this day.

[newwaveboy87]

i love that song!

[cookiva]

This is where I'll be so heavenly,
so come and dance with me Michael
So sexy, I'm sexy,
so come and dance with me Michael
I'm all that you see, you wanna see,
so come and dance with me Michael
So close now, so close now,
so come and dance with me, so come and dance with me, so come and dance
with me

Michael,
you're the boy with all the leather hips,
sticky hair, sticky hips, stubble on my sticky lips

Michael,
you're the only one I'd ever want
only one I'd ever want
only one I'd ever want
Beautiful boys on a beautiful dancefloor

Michael,
you're dancing like a beautiful dance whore
Michael,
waiting on a silver platter now ... and nothing matters now

This is what I am, I am a man
so come and dance with me Michael
So strong now, its strong now
so come and dance with me Michael
I'm all that you see, you wanna see
so come and dance with me Michael
So close now, its close now,
so come and dance with me, so come and dance with me, SO COME AND DANCE WITH ME

Michael,
you're the boy with all the leather hips,
sticky hair, sticky hips, stubble on my sticky lips

Michael,
you're the only one I'd ever want
only one I'd ever want
only one I'd ever want
Beautiful boys on a beautiful dancefloor

Michael,
you're dancing like a beautiful dance whore
Michael,
waiting on a silver platter now ... and nothing matters now

Michael,
you're the only one I'd ever want
only one I'd ever want
only one I'd ever want
(twice)

Beautiful boys on a beautiful dancefloor
Michael,
you're dancing like a beautiful dance whore
Michael, waiting on a silver platter now, nothing matters now, nothing
Matters now but you

[littyx]

^ Best f *cking Franz Ferdinand song EVER!!!

I love the beat too.

[newwaveboy87]

so Gary are you trying to look like Hugh Jackman nowadays or what?

[JP]

Heh, I had the same thought, NW.

[newwaveboy87]

great minds?
:confused:

[littyx]

Oh, you mean my new facial hair?
Well, it started off with me just being lazy. Then I liked it. I'll see how far I'll take it. Also, I think bearded guys are hot.

[cookiva]

Lazy people rule....


Anyone here seen Heights?

I dont want to ruin the ending/twist, unless everyone here has seen it...therefore, no ruining...

[newwaveboy87]

Oh, you mean my new facial hair?
Well, it started off with me just being lazy. Then I liked it. I'll see how far I'll take it. Also, I think bearded guys are hot.
i did that once.
but then i started to look like a hobo (HOBO, not homo) so i finally shaved.

[littyx]

Yes, I saw Heights. Great movie.

Oh Cyke! You've changed.

[cookiva]

Hahah, totally.....


I want those pictures....

[Specter313]

Didn't see this here yet, but I thought that the following link could be relevant here:

http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/index.php

[cookiva]

Woah, wait? Phat is gay????

I totally did not know that! And he could be in X3!

[newwaveboy87]

yeah he's pretty hot for a cartoon character.

[cookiva]

edit

[Specter313]

Yeah, that link definitely has some interesting stuff. Like I also didn't know that Electro was bi and that The Russian is now a trannie.

[newwaveboy87]

edit
what was there before the edit?:confused:

[littyx]

Thanks for that Specter. I've seen that site before but I thought I had found it on these boards. I guess I was wrong.

Why don't I see Phat on that page?

[Specter313]

Thanks for that Specter. I've seen that site before but I thought I had found it on these boards. I guess I was wrong.

Why don't I see Phat on that page?

He's a joint listing with Vivisector, since they were a couple.

[littyx]

Cool, I see it now.

[Kritish]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay2.jpg

And now a word from Big Gay Al...

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay.jpg

[Kmack]

Richard Simmons scares me:(

[littyx]

Richard Simmons scares me:(
Theres nothing wrong with wearing pink running shorts all day and having a white man afro since 1971.



Ok, theres like 26 things wrong with that.:(

[Killgore]

X3: Brokeback Mutant

[littyx]

Hottness^!
Lets petition it!

[cookiva]

James could play Ennis, and Hugh could play Jack!

[littyx]

I just browsed through this thread from the beginning, its funny how the tone of this thread has made a complete 180.

Its good to see people come together and just have a place to talk.

[imaperson2]

sorry for triple post

[imaperson2]

hey guys well i am posting here because i am gay. i am not out to anybody except the online world. i need help doing this. if anyone can help me:please do

[imaperson2]

hey guys well i am posting here because i am gay. i am not out to anybody except the online world. i need help doing this. if anyone can help me please write back

[cookiva]

I just browsed through this thread from the beginning, its funny how the tone of this thread has made a complete 180.

Its good to see people come together and just have a place to talk.

Its another OT thread!!!