Is there a chance the Hommage will bite SR in the ass?

[Oldguy]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Homage you mean?

[RedIsNotBlue]

I think it may go a little overkill. I don't homages though.

[KalKai]

What does that mean? it's not Reeve's FOS, he's not among us anymore, he was the first superman but it's time to move on.

[Oldguy]

Homage you mean?

Why thank you spell-check, anything else to add?

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Why thank you spell-check, anything else to add?

Sure. I think as of late though your opinions have been different, you've been much easier to converse with on the boards :up:

[Oldguy]

Actually I was right, we spell it with 2 m's in Canada.

But back to the topic at hand...

[Oldguy]

What does that mean? it's not Reeve's FOS, he's not among us anymore, he was the first superman but it's time to move on.

Donner's movie is Reeve's continuity, its Reeve's FoS, and Reeve's dead father. Get it yet?

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Actually I was right, we spell it with 2 m's in Canada.

But back to the topic at hand...


Umm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hommage

"
No entry found for hommage.

Did you mean homage (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=homage)?"



Btw you ignored my compliment. How rude :down

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Actually I was right, we spell it with 2 m's in Canada.

But back to the topic at hand...


Umm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hommage

"
No entry found for hommage.

Did you mean homage (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=homage)?"



Btw you ignored my compliment. How rude :down

[Showtime]

I am not sure that it will come back to haunt Singer. I think he is giving the audience something they are familiar with, which is also the case with Smallville. I am not sure if I would have wanted to see a high tech fortress of solidtude as I've seen in the comics. I don't think they are trying to erased the memory of Reeve but rather keep it alive by using the Donner movies as a basis for Returns.

[Showtime]

Double Post...boards are updating and screwing with my mind.

[afan]

Well Reeve was playing Superman, Brando was playing Jor-el and Jor-el is Superman's father, point being I don't think there are many who would make the connection between Christopher Reeve and the FOS or the paternal connection between Reeve and Brando quite as directly as you are.

[scifiwolf]

It's Superman's FoS. I don't think of it as an attempt to replace Reeve, but continue what seems to be a very well-loved interpretation of Superman. Reeve is the face of that interpretation, but many other people contributed to it. Now Singer and friends are adding their contributions.

[bosef982]

Reeve's was an actor who played Superman.

He died.

Move on.

Seriously, there comes a point where you take it a tad bit too far. Reeve's does not OWN Superman and I doubt he'd agree with half the remarks made on these boards nowadays -- but I can't speak for him.

He's an actor who played Superman. Anything else is what you inflate into that and it stands as a subjective reality that you have no right to graft onto others, other objects, or other mediums.

[Gamma Ray]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?



You're a pain in the a**.

[The Game]

Reeve's was an actor who played Superman.

He died.

Move on.

Seriously, there comes a point where you take it a tad bit too far. Reeve's does not OWN Superman and I doubt he'd agree with half the remarks made on these boards nowadays -- but I can't speak for him.

He's an actor who played Superman. Anything else is what you inflate into that and it stands as a subjective reality that you have no right to graft onto others, other objects, or other mediums.

Reeve IS the best actor that has ever played Superman and no matter how you spin in it, the general public will always associate him with supes, when this film comes out Blandon will be judged against Reeve and if he does not hold up, this film will get trashed

[afan]

Reeve IS the best actor that has ever played Superman and no matter how you spin in it, the general public will always associate him with supes, when this film comes out Blandon will be judged against Reeve and if he does not hold up, this film will get trashed

No doubt, just as the actors that play Bond have to stand up to the Connery yardstick, but that's a whole lot different than an audience taking affront to Singer using "Reeve's" FOS.

[patrickbateman]

could someone post a pic of the FOS not inspired by Donner's vision ? like lets say the animated series

[Oldguy]

Reeve's was an actor who played Superman.

He died.

Move on.

Seriously, there comes a point where you take it a tad bit too far. Reeve's does not OWN Superman and I doubt he'd agree with half the remarks made on these boards nowadays -- but I can't speak for him.

He's an actor who played Superman. Anything else is what you inflate into that and it stands as a subjective reality that you have no right to graft onto others, other objects, or other mediums.

Wow, reading comprehension still isn't your thing is it? I never said Reeve is the definitive Superman. Is it so difficult to respond without putting words in my mouth?

SR is a tribute to StM. But Routh is retconning Reeve out, now Routh is the son Brando sent to Earth, Routh is the one who resides in the Donner FoS. Routh is replacing Reeve in this continuity.

The topic at hand is do you think there is a chance this may backfire, like the animosity a young boy might have towards a stepfather.

Contrary to what you think, Donner's vision isn't the only viable option for Superman. I think the inevitable comparison to Reeve would have been easier avoided with an original restart.

[bosef982]

Wow, reading comprehension still isn't your thing is it? I never said Reeve is the definitive Superman. Is it so difficult to respond without putting words in my mouth?

SR is a tribute to StM. But Routh is retconning Reeve out, now Routh is the son Brando sent to Earth, Routh is the one who resides in the Donner FoS. Routh is replacing Reeve in this continuity.

The topic at hand is do you think there is a chance this may backfire, like the animosity a young boy might have towards a stepfather.

Contrary to what you think, Donner's vision isn't the only viable option for Superman. I think the inevitable comparison to Reeve would have been easier avoided with an original restart.

I love how you say I put words in your mouth, and then you say basically those words. Excuse me for summarizing.

BRANDO didn't send REEVES to Earth. BRANDO is not sending ROUTH to Earth.

JOR-EL is sending KAL-EL to Earth.

Is this really so hard to understand? These actors ARE NOT THE CHARACTERS, they play a character and these characters exist both beyond and outside them, the mantles of which available for whatever new actor comes along.

And you're misusing Retconning. Retconing is changing the past history of a character. They are not changing the past history of a character, their accentuating it. Plus, Singer has remarked this is a "vague" history, which totally bombs any idea of retconning.

This is the equivelant of saying that Roger Moore retconned Sean Connery out of the Bond movies. Or Pierce Brosnan retconned Sean Connery and Roger Moore. It's a logical inaccuracy that arises from not using the word properly.

They're not saying that Routh is a different Superman, Pal-El, who was instead sent to Earth instead of Kal-El. He's playing Kal-el.

Really, you need to draw your lines between reality and cinematic fiction.

[Oldguy]

Umm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hommage

"
No entry found for hommage.

Did you mean homage (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=homage)?"



Btw you ignored my compliment. How rude :down

Scroll down on your american dictionary page, select the option to search the web for hommage, and you will find that the french spell it with 2 m's. Canada is a bilingual country, we have a lot of alternate spellings of words like this, like armour.

I ignored you compliment because it's inaccurate. I haven't changed my views at all. I just stopped beating the dead horse.:)

[davejames]

I don't think there's anything "sacriligeous" about using Donner's Jor-el or Fortress, or Williams theme music. Singer is simply honoring those movies and the public's love for them. As much as I hate Smallville, when I saw the Fortress rise up in the season premiere I got goosebumps and ate up every second of it. It didn't bother me at all to see Welling walking around inside it. The same applied to Archer and crew walking around a TOS-era starship on Enterprise-- seeing all those old sets and designs in a new light was enormously fun, regardless of how much I hated that show.

I don't know about anybody else, but when I think of the Fortress of Solitude, the first and only one that comes to mind is the one in the Donner movies. It's just an iconic image.

[AgentPat]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacrilegious, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Homage?I think it will depend on who you ask. I just talked with my mom today. She grew up reading comic books, she loved the Reeve films, and she watches Smallville. She's been around the block quite a few times with all things Superman, so I would consider her a long time but casual fan. Anyhoo, she saw the trailer during SV last night and couldn't stop yappin' about Marlon Brando. She was surprised they used his voice, but loved it none-the-less. She likes him better than "the other guy." (Translation: Stamp's voice as Jor-El on SV.) She was only disappointed in the length of the teaser (she wanted to see more) and she didn't like "what they did to him [Superman]." (Translation: she thought Routh was Welling.)

Now, I realize the film isn't targeting 66 yo widowed retirees, but they're fans too. And their money is as green as everybody else's. I know on one level my mom will be highly entertained by SR, but I also happen to know there have been other revelations that have disappointed her. I just tell her to fill out her application and join the club. It's a big one. ;)

[Oldguy]

...
This is the equivelant of saying that Roger Moore retconned Sean Connery out of the Bond movies. Or Pierce Brosnan retconned Sean Connery and Roger Moore. It's a logical inaccuracy that arises from not using the word properly.

They're not saying that Routh is a different Superman, Pal-El, who was instead sent to Earth instead of Kal-El. He's playing Kal-el.

Really, you need to draw your lines between reality and cinematic fiction.

RM did retcon SC out of the bond films, and PB did retcon RM, SC, TD, and every other Bond before him. There were always comparisons between the Bonds, and there were always people who were happy or unhappy with the changes. There were people who were turned off, and others who were delighted.

There were even people who didn't go see RM bond movies because SC was their man. Bond is a poor parallel to Superman. Bond is in the real world, where stylistic expression of the MI settings is less open to inturpretation. A government office is a government office. The planet Krypton is alot more open to inturpretation. Donner's way isn't the only way it could be done, or should be done. S:TAS is a prime example of that.

I think if SR was an original vision, then there would be less comparisons to Reeve. My question was, will Routh be percieved as replacing Reeve, because now he's the Superman in the continuity established by Reeve? Will this generate animosity like a child has for a new stepdad?

Bosef, why don't you try to respond without yelling like an infant and insulting me with your not so subtle insinuations.

You don't think it will bite SR in the ass? Fine. See how easy that was?

[Oldguy]

I think it will depend on who you ask. I just talked with my mom today. She grew up reading comic books, she loved the Reeve films, and she watches Smallville. She's been around the block quite a few times with all things Superman, so I would consider her a long time but casual fan. Anyhoo, she saw the trailer during SV last night and couldn't stop yappin' about Marlon Brando. She was surprised they used his voice, but loved it none-the-less. She likes him better than "the other guy." (Translation: Stamp's voice as Jor-El on SV.) She was only disappointed in the length of the teaser (she wanted to see more) and she didn't like "what they did to him [Superman]." (Translation: she thought Routh was Welling.)

Now, I realize the film isn't targeting 66 yo widowed retirees, but they're fans too. And their money is as green as everybody else's. I know on one level my mom will be highly entertained by SR, but I also happen to know there have been other revelations that have disappointed her. I just tell her to fill out her application and join the club. It's a big one. ;)

Thank you for the courtious feedback AgentPat. I didn't start this thread to convince people to feel the same way I do, I was merely interested if others felt the same way.

[bosef982]

RM did retcon SC out of the bond films, and PB did retcon RM, SC, TD, and every other Bond before him. There were always comparisons between the Bonds, and there were always people who were happy or unhappy with the changes. There were people who were turned off, and others who were delighted.

There were even people who didn't go see RM bond movies because SC was their man. Bond is a poor parallel to Superman. Bond is in the real world, where stylistic expression of the MI settings is less open to inturpretation. A government office is a government office. The planet Krypton is alot more open to inturpretation. Donner's way isn't the only way it could be done, or should be done. S:TAS is a prime example of that.

I think if SR was an original vision, then there would be less comparisons to Reeve. My question was, will Routh be percieved as replacing Reeve, because now he's the Superman in the continuity established by Reeve? Will this generate animosity like a child has for a new stepdad?

Bosef, why don't you try to respond without yelling like an infant and insulting me with your not so subtle insinuations.

You don't think it will bite SR in the ass? Fine. See how easy that was?

Retcon



/ret'kon/ retroactive continuity.

The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals"
things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the
"facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely
changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a
whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.

This term was once thought to have originated on the Usenet
newsgroup news:rec.arts.comics but is now believed to have
been used earlier in comic fandom.

Okay, so, tell me how your use of "retcon" in this sense is proper? Changing the actor in a role does make us REINTERPRET what happened in the previous movies. And Bond stands, he does have stylistic approaches like Ken Adam's production sets and the Aston Martin and gadgets.

They are replacing Reeves in the ROLE of Superman, not Reeves himself in those previous movies. We won't watch STM and say, "Oh, that's Brandon Routh."

Retcon is a term that is used in terms of plot and story -- not casting.

[RedIsNotBlue]

God I wish Singer would show us some footage of Routh doing more than just being there.

[RakuMon]

Reeve's was an actor who played Superman.

He died.

Move on.



Brando was an actor who played Superman's father.

He died.

Mov... oh wait, never mind...

:o

[Oldguy]

Okay, so, tell me how your use of "retcon" in this sense is proper? Changing the actor in a role does make us REINTERPRET what happened in the previous movies. And Bond stands, he does have stylistic approaches like Ken Adam's production sets and the Aston Martin and gadgets.

They are replacing Reeves in the ROLE of Superman, not Reeves himself in those previous movies. We won't watch STM and say, "Oh, that's Brandon Routh."

Retcon is a term that is used in terms of plot and story -- not casting.

It's not replacing the actor that makes us reinterpret what happened in previous movies, it's when one relies on "vague history".

Now that Routh is the son that Brando sent to Earth, from the crystalline Krypton, then SIII and IV never happened. The amount of "vague history" Singer decides to go with, now defines what happened in StM and SII. So there's your REINTERPRETATION of what happened in the previous movies right there.

Thank you for providing me with the background info necessary to define retcon, and how it specifically relates to Singer retconning Reeve out.

[skruloos]

I think if SR was an original vision, then there would be less comparisons to Reeve. My question was, will Routh be percieved as replacing Reeve, because now he's the Superman in the continuity established by Reeve? Will this generate animosity like a child has for a new stepdad?

It's a double edged sword. Batman Begins being a reboot didn't stop people from comparing it to Burton's Batman. No matter which direction ANY director went with, there would have been comparisons. And if Singer decided to completely ignore Donner's movie, then you would have the people who would complain about not showing respect to Donner at all. It's a lose/lose situation.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Well fans of Batman KNEW that Begins was going to be a restart of the franchise and seperate from the other films. For Superman fans I don't think they really know for sure what is going on.

[Oldguy]

It's a double edged sword. Batman Begins being a reboot didn't stop people from comparing it to Burton's Batman. No matter which direction ANY director went with, there would have been comparisons. And if Singer decided to completely ignore Donner's movie, then you would have the people who would complain about not showing respect to Donner at all. It's a lose/lose situation.

Not at all. Nolan made out just fine with his interpretation, the fans and critics loved it. Sure if Singer went with an original vision, there would have been comparisons, but you are too quick to assume it would have been a critical error. Most of Donner's StM fans are old. I doubt the average tweenager would really care that much if it wasn't Donner redux.
It's funny how such an original interpretation of the :supes: suit is ok, but story wise, it would be a critical flaw to deviate from Donner's vision. Once again I fail to see the rationale behind your reasoning.

[skruloos]

Well fans of Batman KNEW that Begins was going to be a restart of the franchise and seperate from the other films. For Superman fans I don't think they really know for sure what is going on.
And that's all well and good as far as fans go. But I thought this was about the general public and their reaction to Routh "replacing" Reeve.

[RedIsNotBlue]

And that's all well and good as far as fans go. But I thought this was about the general public and their reaction to Routh "replacing" Reeve.

And I was replying to you talking about Nolan's Batman being compared to Burton's. I am just saying it is a different situation with Singer.

But on the replacement subject I don't think the general public cares honestly. Superman has been off the movie screen for so long that it only matters to the Superman fans.

[Winking Samurai]

I think this movie is a huge missed oppurtunity.

It's clear to me now that they didn't make a complete movie revamp of Superman's origin story because of Smallville. If memory serves, this is Smallville's last season, with the last episode airing in May and Superman Returns coming out in June. Picture this: The last episode of Smallville paving the way beautifully into a Superman movie about Clark's first days as the Man of Steel. Picture a seamless transition from Smallville farmboy Tom Welling to Metropolis cub reporter Brandon Routh. How cool would that have been? Instead, they opted for an ambiguous tie-in to only two of the four previous movies.

Like I said, a missed oppurtunity.

(w00t! 200th Post)

[Nivek]

Smallville is still around. They want hype, put Clark in A suit.

[Showtime]

I think this movie is a huge missed oppurtunity.

It's clear to me now that they didn't make a complete movie revamp of Superman's origin story because of Smallville. If memory serves, this is Smallville's last season, with the last episode airing in May and Superman Returns coming out in June. Picture this: The last episode of Smallville paving the way beautifully into a Superman movie about Clark's first days as the Man of Steel. Picture a seamless transition from Smallville farmboy Tom Welling to Metropolis cub reporter Brandon Routh. How cool would that have been? Instead, they opted for an ambiguous tie-in to only two of the four previous movies.

Like I said, a missed oppurtunity.

(w00t! 200th Post)

This isn't Smallville's last season...the actors are all signed through season 7. It's a nice idea but factually incorrect.

[Winking Samurai]

This isn't Smallville's last season...the actors are all signed until 2007. It's a nice idea but factually incorrect.
Really? Huh. Well, I still prefer my idea. I would've rather waited for the movie and had Clark's origin story pan out. It's still a "could've, should've" scenario.

[Nivek]

well, you CAN just stick to Smallville, and ignore the movie.

[Oldguy]

Really? Huh. Well, I still prefer my idea. I would've rather waited for the movie and had Clark's origin story pan out. It's still a "could've, should've" scenario.

Here's the thing. In 2012, Time/Warner loses the rights to Superman. The Siegel family gets them back. So WB can't wait for SV to wrap up to make Superman movies, and they aren't going to cut short a hit T.V. show to squeeze in their movies. So they gotta crank out both franchises while they have the legal right to.

[The Nose Goblin]

Actually I was right, we spell it with 2 m's in Canada.

But back to the topic at hand...
Yes and you also spell 'defense' as 'defence' and 'center' as 'centre'......

....and you put Cheez Whiz on your toast.:confused:








At least the Canadians I know do anyways....:o

[Oldguy]

Yes and you also spell 'defense' as 'defence' and 'center' as 'centre'......

....and you put Cheez Whiz on your toast.:confused:








At least the Canadians I know do anyways....:o

Only if I'm out of celery.:D

[skruloos]

Not at all. Nolan made out just fine with his interpretation, the fans and critics loved it. Sure if Singer went with an original vision, there would have been comparisons, but you are too quick to assume it would have been a critical error. Most of Donner's StM fans are old. I doubt the average tweenager would really care that much if it wasn't Donner redux.
It's funny how such an original interpretation of the :supes: suit is ok, but story wise, it would be a critical flaw to deviate from Donner's vision. Once again I fail to see the rationale behind your reasoning.
I didn't say it wasn't possible or that the reception would be bad. I never said that building on the foundation of Doner's was the only way to go.

You are saying that he would have avoided comparisons by doing a restart. I disagree. I think comparisons would have come either way and Singer would lost out no matter what happened. You can't please everyone.

[davejames]

I think this movie is a huge missed oppurtunity.

It's clear to me now that they didn't make a complete movie revamp of Superman's origin story because of Smallville. If memory serves, this is Smallville's last season, with the last episode airing in May and Superman Returns coming out in June. Picture this: The last episode of Smallville paving the way beautifully into a Superman movie about Clark's first days as the Man of Steel. Picture a seamless transition from Smallville farmboy Tom Welling to Metropolis cub reporter Brandon Routh. How cool would that have been? Instead, they opted for an ambiguous tie-in to only two of the four previous movies.

Like I said, a missed oppurtunity.

(w00t! 200th Post)

I don't think Smallville had anything to do with it. From the very start Singer decided to do his OWN interpretation of Superman, apart from the comics, Smallville, or earlier movies. Sure there are a few homages to the Donner films, but for the most part SR has a very different look and feel.

The other problem is that Smallville is very clearly set in the modern day. Singer is going for a more indefinite, timeless quality with SR. The two styles just wouldn't fit together. Plus you've got all that elaborate backstory to account for.

I certainly wouldn't object to a Smallville movie some day, but for right now, I'm glad Singer is doing it the way he is.

[Steelsheen]

Is there a chance the Hommage will bite SR in the ass?
possibly. but then again maybe it wont.

a homage is always a double-edged sword. it can play as a strength but also as a weakness. its got nothing to do with how much or how little is used. it depends how the plot is executed and how pieces of the homage is incorporated into the story.

[SentinelMind]

I'm not a fan of giving homage to others in general, it takes away from the experience. I think the film will still do well.

[Scooter]

Not at all. Nolan made out just fine with his interpretation, the fans and critics loved it. Sure if Singer went with an original vision, there would have been comparisons, but you are too quick to assume it would have been a critical error. Most of Donner's StM fans are old. I doubt the average tweenager would really care that much if it wasn't Donner redux.
It's funny how such an original interpretation of the :supes: suit is ok, but story wise, it would be a critical flaw to deviate from Donner's vision. Once again I fail to see the rationale behind your reasoning.

What happened to your great sig. regarding that?

[Oldguy]

I didn't say it wasn't possible or that the reception would be bad. I never said that building on the foundation of Doner's was the only way to go.

You are saying that he would have avoided comparisons by doing a restart. I disagree. I think comparisons would have come either way and Singer would lost out no matter what happened. You can't please everyone.

I think the inevitable comparison to Reeve would have been easier avoided with an original restart.

I think if SR was an original vision, then there would be less comparisons to Reeve.

What is wrong with you, skruloos? Is your reading comprehension impaired or are you deliberatly trying to put words in my mouth? I clearly never stated what you accuse me of, so which is it?

[bosef982]

Granted Old Guy, if you use retcon that way, then yes, Singer is retconning. But that has nothing to do with Reeve's himself.

From what we've gathered, Singer is retconning that Krypton fragments survived -- which isn't so much a retcon since it doesn't alter our interpretation of the past movies that much. Remember, retconning must IMPACT EXISTING interpretations, not just illuminate them.

The best example being the bastardization of the Phoenix Saga by saying Jean was in an egg and that the Phoenix previously wasn't really Jean at all. That's reconning in definition.

[skruloos]

What is wrong with you, skruloos? Is your reading comprehension impaired or are you deliberatly trying to put words in my mouth? I clearly never stated what you accuse me of, so which is it?
Fine. Less. I exaggerated what you said. Big whoop. You are saying that comparisons could have been easily avoided by a restart. Doesn't that imply that you think a restart would avoid comparisons?

Either way, I don't think comparisons could have been avoided at all. It would have plagued Singer regardless of what direction he took.

[bosef982]

Fine. Less. I exaggerated what you said. Big whoop. You are saying that comparisons could have been easily avoided by a restart. Doesn't that imply that you think a restart would avoid comparisons?

Either way, I don't think comparisons could have been avoided at all. It would have plagued Singer regardless of what direction he took.

Exactly. Old Guy is the epitome of the Catch-22. If Singer would have restarted, Old Guy would be on here whining about how Singer is trying to compete with the perfect Reeve's origin and blah blah blah blah...

Old Guy is just that, a grumpy, old, miserable man who just needs something to whine about. Ignore him and let him.

[Oldguy]

Fine. Less. I exaggerated what you said. Big whoop. You are saying that comparisons could have been easily avoided by a restart. Doesn't that imply that you think a restart would avoid comparisons?

Either way, I don't think comparisons could have been avoided at all. It would have plagued Singer regardless of what direction he took.

It is big whoop, you do it all the time. If you aren't going to bother to comprehend what I say before you respond, then don't bother.

Whether or not to what degree people would draw comparisons is a tangent that came up when discussing the real issue at hand. Will the hommage backfire? You think, no it won't because...people would have compared it to StM anyways.

Surely you can express yourself without reinturpreting what I said.

[Oldguy]

Exactly. Old Guy is the epitome of the Catch-22. If Singer would have restarted, Old Guy would be on here whining about how Singer is trying to compete with the perfect Reeve's origin and blah blah blah blah...
Prove it. Prove your bull**** claims, fool. Show me the documented evidence from your mind reading/parallel universe viewing omnomicronitron.
Old Guy is just that, a grumpy, old, miserable man who just needs something to whine about. Ignore him and let him.
OMG, nothing would make my day more complete than you putting me on ignore. :O

[skruloos]

It is big whoop, you do it all the time. If you aren't going to bother to comprehend what I say before you respond, then don't bother.
Then it would help if you didn't contradict yourself in one sentence. You say that it's inevitable but that it could be easily avoided. Which is it?

[Oldguy]

Then it would help if you didn't contradict yourself in one sentence. You say that it's inevitable but that it could be easily avoided. Which is it?

I think the inevitable comparison to Reeve would have been easier avoided with an original restart.

It's easier to avoid comparing Dean Cain to Chris Reeve, because of the lack of similarities between their respective continuities. Does that elaboration clear things up? If you're unsure next time, feel free to ask.

[Robin91939]

Reeve was not Superman, Reeve played Superman, terrifically.

It is not his Fortress of Solitude, or his suit, or his father, it is Superman's.

Superman has had these things before Reeve, Caine, Routh, Welling, and everyother actor that has portrayed him, and will continue to have these things after these actors have passed.

It was not sacrelidge to have Bale don the cape and cowl, or to have Caine wear Alfred's tux, was it?

The characters will always outlive the actors. All we can do is aprieciate and respect what the actros contribute to the characters.

-R

[The Sage]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?

It'll depend. I doubt anyone of this generation will really care about the hommage or notice it at all, in terms of general public. Critics, you never know. People of your generation, it'll be a mixed bag.

In the end, it's all about the story.

[skruloos]

It's easier to avoid comparing Dean Cain to Chris Reeve, because of the lack of similarities between their respective continuities. Does that elaboration clear things up? If you're unsure next time, feel free to ask.
I don't think that's true. I think that people DID compare Cain to Reeve, just as people DID compare Welling to Reeve when Smallville first premiered.

[Oldguy]

I don't think that's true. I think that people DID compare Cain to Reeve, just as people DID compare Welling to Reeve when Smallville first premiered.

Again, I never said they didn't, I said it's easier to ignore the comparison. Why compare Cain to Reeve, apples and oranges. Routh and Reeve physically look the same, and they have the same fictional dad, Krypton design, and Donner continuity.

People will like the familiarity, resent it, or not care. That's what we're talking about here. You think people will like it, I get it. Voice your opinion without distorting mine.

[Oldguy]

It'll depend. I doubt anyone of this generation will really care about the hommage or notice it at all, in terms of general public. Critics, you never know. People of your generation, it'll be a mixed bag.

In the end, it's all about the story.

Very true, it is indeed all about the story. Insightful and objective as usual. The Sage indeed.:up:

Have a good week end, man it's gonna be a long wait for All Star #12 eh?

[skruloos]

Again, I never said they didn't, I said it's easier to ignore the comparison. Why compare Cain to Reeve, apples and oranges.
Because people will do as they will and compare it. No matter what they do, they'll compare it. You say that such comparisons could have been avoided easier. Why? Because you see it as convenient? I've heard way too many comparisons between way too many movies to believe that a restart would actually alleviate such comparisons.

[The Sage]

Very true, it is indeed all about the story. Insightful and objective as usual. The Sage indeed.:up:

Have a good week end, man it's gonna be a long wait for All Star #12 eh?

Oh heck yes. I loved it. It was absolutely perfect.

[WhatsHisFace]

Edit: Nevermind.

[skruloos]

What the hell is an "FoS"?
Fortress of Solitude?

[sf2]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?
weell, it's all depend on routh's performance.

[Jor_el_1977]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?

Donner's movie is Reeve's continuity, its Reeve's FoS, and Reeve's dead father. Get it yet?

I personally don't like all the connections to the Reeve movies myself, and it's one of my biggest complaints because I do feel like it's sacriligeous to recast Reeve in his role.

Now if it had been a total restart then most people probably wouldn't be complaining as much.

I don't care much about the design in the FOS that's not important it's the storyline that bugs me.

But it's to late now the movie's almost done shooting, and will be out in a few months so now if it turns out bad it's on the WB's heads, and Singer will be the one to pay the price... Remember Joel Schumacher, and his bat nipples? :)

They could have used the same type of look to the movie as the donner movie's if like as a way to pay tribute to those movies without it being a sequel, once Singer said "Vague sequel" that pretty much put the final nail in the coffin.

Now if the movie sucks the coffin will be shut, and if the movie turns out a masterpiece then all fanboys will have to swollow that, and live with this movie as the new Superman movie.

[Michael Corleone]

What is wrong with you, skruloos? Is your reading comprehension impaired or are you deliberatly trying to put words in my mouth? I clearly never stated what you accuse me of, so which is it?

I'm not exactly sure why some are having a hard time understanding you Oldguy. I see what you are saying but I dont think it will bite the movie in the ass. Yeah there may be some backlash but I think for the most part people will recognize what singer is trying to do. Friends of mine that liked the 78 movie yet arent quite Superman fans seem to think it's sorta cool. Actual fans are another question. One I can't answer.

[Winking Samurai]

From the very start Singer decided to do his OWN interpretation of Superman, apart from the comics, Smallville, or earlier movies.

If what you're saying is true, why are the writers of the show and the movie discussing intertwining plot details?

And if Superman Returns has nothing to do with the earlier movies, why is Marlon Brando still Jor-El? And what's all this "rough history" I keep hearing about in relation to the first two Donner movies?

The show and old movies intertwine, just not very well.

If they'd done it the way I suggested, the show and movie would have gelled a lot better without all this confusion about what's canon and what's not.

[WhatsHisFace]

Fortress of Solitude?
Thanks.

I think having the same FoS is a good idea. Keeping a unified vision will help non-fans avoid confusion.

[Hunter Rider]

your mind reading/parallel universe viewing omnomicronitron.

.

WOW:eek: what is that ?

As for the topic,it might,i need to see more,i think there is a definite case that some critics may well see SR as very unimaginative and the fact it is attempting to gel itself to the Reeve starring movies makes Routh's Job harder as some will see him as a continuation of a man he can't hope to match up to.

[Oldguy]

After the lackluster response the crowd at HP4 gave the SR trailer, I don't think relying on Donner was any guarentee to win over the casual fan.

[Nivek]

Oldguys starting to get really crusty of late...

[RedIsNotBlue]

He is?? He seems to actually be thinking things through unlike a lot of people on here.

[nosebleed.]

After the lackluster response the crowd at HP4 gave the SR trailer, I don't think relying on Donner was any guarentee to win over the casual fan.

Thing is, most kids today don't really care about the Donner film. Sure, they've probably caught it on AMC or USA on a Saturday afternoon but its old to them. So if the promotion on this movie is thinking that nostalgia for the original movie will motivate the general movie audience to see the movie then I think they are mistaken. I'm sure they're monitoring the crowd reactions to the teaser trailer and might possibly take the tried and true popcorn flick approach for the main trailer (like what BB did).

[skruloos]

After the lackluster response the crowd at HP4 gave the SR trailer, I don't think relying on Donner was any guarentee to win over the casual fan.
I don't think that's the sole reason for going with the Donner continuity. I think going with the Donner continuity was to draw in the fans of Donner's films and recognize Superman from those films. I think there will probably trailers that will try to draw in the Smallville crowd. And then I think the Superbowl trailer and others after that will focus on going after the "youth" demographic.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Thing is, most kids today don't really care about the Donner film. Sure, they've probably caught it on AMC or USA on a Saturday afternoon but its old to them. So if the promotion on this movie is thinking that nostalgia for the original movie will motivate the general movie audience to see the movie then I think they are mistaken. I'm sure they're monitoring the crowd reactions to the teaser trailer and might possibly take the tried and true popcorn flick approach for the main trailer (like what BB did).

Well actually they show it quite frequently on the movie channels. I just watched it the other day on HBO.

[Saint]

Prove it. Prove your bull**** claims, fool. Show me the documented evidence from your mind reading/parallel universe viewing omnomicronitron.

OMG, nothing would make my day more complete than you putting me on ignore. :O
http://www.brad-johnson.com/images/forum/owned3.jpg

[M.O.Steel]

Reeve was not Superman, Reeve played Superman, terrifically.

It is not his Fortress of Solitude, or his suit, or his father, it is Superman's.

Superman has had these things before Reeve, Caine, Routh, Welling, and everyother actor that has portrayed him, and will continue to have these things after these actors have passed.

It was not sacrelidge to have Bale don the cape and cowl, or to have Caine wear Alfred's tux, was it?

The characters will always outlive the actors. All we can do is aprieciate and respect what the actros contribute to the characters.

-R

Very well said.:up: :supes:

[nosebleed.]

Well actually they show it quite frequently on the movie channels. I just watched it the other day on HBO.

Yeah, but my point is that it wasn't a big movie release that they would know about. Unlike Harry Potter or Spiderman and other big release within the last decade or so.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Yeah, but my point is that it wasn't a big movie release that they would know about. Unlike Harry Potter or Spiderman and other big release within the last decade or so.

Your not giving this generation enough credit. I mean what exactly did Spidey have going on for it before his big screen debut? I am just saying Superman is out there a lot more than your making it out to be. And isn't WB doing special edition Superman dvd release before SR?

[storyteller]

could someone post a pic of the FOS not inspired by Donner's vision ? like lets say the animated series



How about the fortress from the frekin comics.
I am a fan of the superman comics. I dont give a big whoop over some 70's movie. How you can put reeve before the damn comic is beyond me.

[explode7]

^ Love ur avatar. See people spidey is waaaay cooler.

[JamalYIgle]

How about the fortress from the frekin comics.
I am a fan of the superman comics. I dont give a big whoop over some 70's movie. How you can put reeve before the damn comic is beyond me.
You mean the converted mayan temple that's in the comics now?

[DrMylesOBoogie]

The fact that this movie follows on from Superman II has already ruined it for me. I hate the idea.

[skruloos]

The fact that this movie follows on from Superman II has already ruined it for me. I hate the idea.
Good for you. I suggest you never watch the movie. Go spend your hard earned money on something more worthwhile.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Good for you. I suggest you never watch the movie. Go spend your hard earned money on something more worthwhile.

He will see it. This site is filled with hypocrites because I know that no matter how much most of these guys bash a movie they will see it nonetheless. I mean I have some gripes about SR but I am paying money to see it.

[Winking Samurai]

He will see it. This site is filled with hypocrites because I know that no matter how much most of these guys bash a movie they will see it nonetheless. I mean I have some gripes about SR but I am paying money to see it.

The idea is stupid, but if it's executed well, it could still be a decent movie.

He didn't say he wasn't going to see it, he just expressed his opinion that the whole "rough history" idea is asinine. And I happen to agree.

Does that mean we're not going to see it? Not necessarily. Now pull that stick out of your ass and stop putting words in people's mouths.

[Oldguy]

You mean the converted mayan temple that's in the comics now?

Sure why not?

[Milkman95]

Just because a teaser didn't get a standing ovation in a kiddy flick means nothing. The BB teaser, the WOTW teaser, and others also received little response. Nobody says much anymore.........

[The Game]

Just because a teaser didn't get a standing ovation in a kiddy flick means nothing. The BB teaser, the WOTW teaser, and others also received little response. Nobody says much anymore.........

WOTW was trash

[Showtime]

Sure why not?

Personally I would never want to see this version of the FOS in a film. I would rather see the futuristic look.

[Milkman95]

WOTW was trash

Well, I kind of agree, but it was still highly anticipated, and they're laughing all the way to the bank with $588 million..........

[The Game]

Well, I kind of agree, but it was still highly anticipated, and they're laughing all the way to the bank with $588 million..........

yep, that flick made stupid money, I hope WB are not just interested in the money making potential of SR

[Ronny Shade]

Reeve IS the best actor that has ever played Superman and no matter how you spin in it, the general public will always associate him with supes, when this film comes out Blandon will be judged against Reeve and if he does not hold up, this film will get trashed

Even if Reeve is the 'best actor that has ever played superman' that doesn't mean he's the best actor that ever will.

[Hunter Rider]

WOTW was trash

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree,i loved that movie,it was way better than ID4 or any other alien invasion flick IMO

[The Game]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree,i loved that movie,it was way better than ID4 or any other alien invasion flick IMO

Your insane man insane I say :D, I loved ID4, with WOTW I just expected more than what was on offer

[The Game]

Even if Reeve is the 'best actor that has ever played superman' that doesn't mean he's the best actor that ever will.

Of Course, I believe in evolution, and one day an actor will don the tights and will be better than Reeve, I just dont think Routh is that person

[Oldguy]

Personally I would never want to see this version of the FOS in a film. I would rather see the futuristic look.

It has a chewy futuristic centre under it's ancient looking exterior. There's even crystalline structures for all the Donner fans.:D

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree,i loved that movie,it was way better than ID4 or any other alien invasion flick IMO

We can agree to agree hunter. It is the penultimate alien invasion flick, I loved how insignificant humanity is, how dreadful and hopeless the people were. A very faithful adaptation of the novel and the movie from the 50's, with a modern twist of the depiction of the broken home dynamic we are all painfully aware of.

[Showtime]

It has a chewy futuristic centre under it's ancient looking exterior. There's even crystalline structures for all the Donner fans.

It's almost like a hybrid FOS then. For some reason I only remember it looking like an ancient Myan temple. Maybe I only saw illustrations of the outside.

[Oldguy]

It's almost like a hybrid FOS then. For some reason I only remember it looking like an ancient Myan temple. Maybe I only saw illustrations of the outside.

Ya there's a couple of clusters of crystals outside the temple now. I'd have to reread what their function is.

[The Batman]

When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?


It could, and it could not....

The main reason I like that Singer's using some things from STM is that...in some ways, it was perfect? If we got a complete restart, do you think they'd use the willaims theme? And no one can really top Brando as Jor El, can they(Though i prefer he just not be in SR).

[Oldguy]

It could, and it could not....

The main reason I like that Singer's using some things from STM is that...in some ways, it was perfect? If we got a complete restart, do you think they'd use the willaims theme? And no one can really top Brando as Jor El, can they(Though i prefer he just not be in SR).

Well I'd agree the score is perfect, although Danny Elfman might disagree. As far as the Brando, I think you're right. Tough to top, but really necessary? Hopefully it is.

[The Guard]

I hear a lot of raving over ALL STAR SUPERMAN #1. What was so good about it?

I've never liked the whole "Kryptonian crystal grows a huge fortress" thing. I'm more a fan of the idea of Superman making his own Fortress of Solitude of neccessity. As in, he needed solitude so much that he MADE one in one of the most remote places in the world. One that functions to essentially shut out what troubles him and allows him some peace. I don't even like all the Kryptonian technology being there sometimes.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I like the Kryptonian Crystal making the FOS..........it creates a deep connection between Kal-El and his father. Otherwise, Jor-El would have been more like a sperm bank doner to Clark and nothing else.

I also like it because it creates almost a KRYPTON on Earth aspect......where when Superman is there, he's Kal-El last son of Krypton. He's alone, the only survior of his race, and he's in what appears to be a remerbrance of his homeworld. I like that.

ALL STAR SUPERMAN was nice........I liked it. What I enjoyed most of all was the portrayal of Clark Kent. He looks like a chubby nerd, and is a total clutz. He slips and falls about 3 times and accidently knocks some dude over.....I swear, I imagine Chris Reeves high pitched nerdy voice as Clark Kent in those panels.

The way I see it, Clark Kent is like a giant act he puts up. Much like "Part Animal Playboy" buying hotels that aren't for sale Bruce Wayne puts up. The kinda guy that people will NEVER even imagine could be Superman or Batman. I like the acts they put up, but while Bruce's act is probably the coolest and the favorite..........Clark's act is by far oscar worthy. He purposely acts like a bufoon so to keep everyone off his trail. I love it.

[Oldguy]

I hear a lot of raving over ALL STAR SUPERMAN #1. What was so good about it?

I've never liked the whole "Kryptonian crystal grows a huge fortress" thing. I'm more a fan of the idea of Superman making his own Fortress of Solitude of neccessity. As in, he needed solitude so much that he MADE one in one of the most remote places in the world. One that functions to essentially shut out what troubles him and allows him some peace. I don't even like all the Kryptonian technology being there sometimes.

Go read it, it's well worth the price of admission. I'd tell ya, but I wouldn't be able to do it justice.

[Showtime]

Ya there's a couple of clusters of crystals outside the temple now. I'd have to reread what their function is.

Interesting...that doesn't sell me on it...but it's still sounds interesting.

[Silverstein]

To answer the title question, no. It's not about Reeves and Brando, it's about Jor-El and Kal-El. I mean, they hold their place. They are iconic. But they are not the characters.

There's not going to be any rivalry between the actors. You know, mainly because Reeves is pushing up daisies. If there is then it's in the fans. But that doesn't really matter because they're still going to see the movie and probably enjoy it. It's just a matter of "will this guy do as good as Reeves?" but then that's it.

No one REALLY cares. It's just a movie. As long as it's a GOOD movie everyone is happy. Now if there are douchebags who are going to complain just for the sake of "oh well, Reeves is better" even before they see it, then they don't matter.

I was only a kid, but wasn't there a Superman 3 and 4? And didn't Reeves play in those as well? So regardless of whether he is the iconic superman because of SM:TM2..3 and 4 sucked. Sucked so much that we're starting from 2.

No one is going to actually say Routh is better than reeves, even if he is. He probably won't be [either way it doesn't matter]. So critics will tear apart the movie for the sheer reason that Reeves came first.

As for retconning...No one is being retconned. When actors do other roles, they are "taking the helm" they are not retconning the previous actors. In fact, a prime example of this is in batman films. The different actors changed, but it took place in the same timeline. Chris O'Donnell was still Robin even after Clooney left...Because it's the same world. It was not a different batman.

Now in one's mind, they could have personally replaced every Batman actor with the face of the current batman of that series. In that sense there would be a retcon. But that's only in that person's mind. No one else is going to do that.

It's pretty much a given that we are to assume that whoever a new person is, they are playing the same character. And if it's in the same series, it's the same character in the same universe with no retcon.

But whatever...

[Ronny Shade]

Your insane man insane I say :D, I loved ID4, with WOTW I just expected more than what was on offer
WOTW was way better than ID4. ID4 was campy and fun, but WOTW was epic. It wasn't perfect, but there a lot of things that were really good about it.

Of Course, I believe in evolution, and one day an actor will don the tights and will be better than Reeve, I just dont think Routh is that person
Never said he was.

[sf2]

WOTW was way better than ID4. ID4 was campy and fun, but WOTW was epic. It wasn't perfect, but there a lot of things that were really good about it.


Never said he was.

but... WOTW doesn't make sense. it's so advanced and yet so primitive, though it's from the 20s novel.

[Zor-El]

I didnt want to start a new thread so i thought i'd throw this out there:
Anyone notice the rooftop in this
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/43/28pp.jpg

Looks like the rooftop in this?
http://www.geocities.com/mbrown123/superman1.jpg

[Milkman95]

^Nice observation.........

[Hunter Rider]

Looks like Lois was using the batsignal and got Supeshttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[The Sage]

I hear a lot of raving over ALL STAR SUPERMAN #1. What was so good about it?

Best Superman story since Action Comics 775, to me.


I've never liked the whole "Kryptonian crystal grows a huge fortress" thing. I'm more a fan of the idea of Superman making his own Fortress of Solitude of neccessity. As in, he needed solitude so much that he MADE one in one of the most remote places in the world. One that functions to essentially shut out what troubles him and allows him some peace. I don't even like all the Kryptonian technology being there sometimes.

I think the idea of Kryptonian technology creating the FOS is very powerful. Clark seeing the FOS, then entering inside to talk to Jor-El is very much like Moses approaching God through the Burning Bush, or Jesus talking to God in the wilderness for 40 days. Biblical allegories like that IMO bring out the divine and mythical power of the Superman story, something that gets lost in all of the scientific stuff. It really shows how grand Superman is, and why he's the ICON.

Sorry for my rant. ;)

[The Sage]

I like the Kryptonian Crystal making the FOS..........it creates a deep connection between Kal-El and his father. Otherwise, Jor-El would have been more like a sperm bank doner to Clark and nothing else.

I also like it because it creates almost a KRYPTON on Earth aspect......where when Superman is there, he's Kal-El last son of Krypton. He's alone, the only survior of his race, and he's in what appears to be a remerbrance of his homeworld. I like that.

ALL STAR SUPERMAN was nice........I liked it. What I enjoyed most of all was the portrayal of Clark Kent. He looks like a chubby nerd, and is a total clutz. He slips and falls about 3 times and accidently knocks some dude over.....I swear, I imagine Chris Reeves high pitched nerdy voice as Clark Kent in those panels.

The way I see it, Clark Kent is like a giant act he puts up. Much like "Part Animal Playboy" buying hotels that aren't for sale Bruce Wayne puts up. The kinda guy that people will NEVER even imagine could be Superman or Batman. I like the acts they put up, but while Bruce's act is probably the coolest and the favorite..........Clark's act is by far oscar worthy. He purposely acts like a bufoon so to keep everyone off his trail. I love it.

Yes. 100% agree.

[Steelsheen]

Looks like Lois was using the batsignal and got Supeshttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
LOL! :D

[KiddSketch]

If I remember correctly, the reason Bryan Singer didn't start from the beginning is because Superman's origin has been told so many times already. That's where "vague history" comes into it. "Vague" in the sense that, it references things that happened in previous interpretations without specifically naming that continuity. Bryan Singer has nods to all interpretations of Superman in this movie, as far as I know anyway. Sure, the continuity is based around the Donner continuity, but I'm sure that there will be things obviously not from the Donner continuity, one being young Clark discovering his powers, finding the ship and the crystals a little younger than he was in the Donner movies and I read an article saying that Clark and Lex will have some history, and as I recall, Clark (not Superman, but Clark) never interacted with Lex in the Donner version.

So...will the homage bite SR in the ass? I don't think so, it just gives more room to tell a better story.

[The Guard]

I didnt want to start a new thread so i thought i'd throw this out there:

Anyone notice the rooftop in this
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/43/28pp.jpg

Looks like the rooftop in this?
http://www.geocities.com/mbrown123/superman1.jpg

That's because it's a roof. Some rooftops have skylights that look like that. I fail to see a connection beyond a mild coincidence.

Best Superman story since Action Comics 775, to me.

Why? Seriously, just tell me, I won't be able to get to the comic shop for a while.

[Zor-El]

That's because it's a roof. Some rooftops have skylights that look like that. I fail to see a connection beyond a mild coincidence.


I don't think you're giving Guy Dyas and whoever else worked on production design enough credit.

[Ronny Shade]

If I remember correctly, the reason Bryan Singer didn't start from the beginning is because Superman's origin has been told so many times already. That's where "vague history" comes into it. "Vague" in the sense that, it references things that happened in previous interpretations without specifically naming that continuity. Bryan Singer has nods to all interpretations of Superman in this movie, as far as I know anyway. Sure, the continuity is based around the Donner continuity, but I'm sure that there will be things obviously not from the Donner continuity, one being young Clark discovering his powers, finding the ship and the crystals a little younger than he was in the Donner movies and I read an article saying that Clark and Lex will have some history, and as I recall, Clark (not Superman, but Clark) never interacted with Lex in the Donner version.

So...will the homage bite SR in the ass? I don't think so, it just gives more room to tell a better story.

Seems evident from the teaser that this movie has its fair share of Smallville and the Kent farm.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah, it looks like it will touch on the past a little.......but honestly, I'm so tired of origin films............Batman NEEDED a restart. Superman didn't NEED one. SUPERMAN THE MOVIE was just so damn good, so classic.....I could only imagine the comparisons being made.

[The Guard]

I don't think you're giving Guy Dyas and whoever else worked on production design enough credit.

You have got to be kidding me.

[Whack Arnolds]

I think the idea of Kryptonian technology creating the FOS is very powerful. Clark seeing the FOS, then entering inside to talk to Jor-El is very much like Moses approaching God through the Burning Bush, or Jesus talking to God in the wilderness for 40 days. Biblical allegories like that IMO bring out the divine and mythical power of the Superman story, something that gets lost in all of the scientific stuff. It really shows how grand Superman is, and why he's the ICON.

Sorry for my rant. ;)Agree 500%. :up:

[KiddSketch]

Seems evident from the teaser that this movie has its fair share of Smallville and the Kent farm. Yep yep

[Ronny Shade]

I think the only way to realistically explain the FoS is to have it be Kryptonian technology. Otherwise why on earth would Superman go build a freakin' castle in Antarctica?? He could just buy a house in the woods or something.

[The Guard]

Simple. Because it's the most remote location he can think of. Being under all that ice and snow allows him what he needs the most, and can't get anywhere else. Solitude.

[KiddSketch]

Plus being made of crystals and stuff, would wouldnt really see it if you flew over it...I think. I can't say for sure because I've never flown over a FoS before...but it's an assumption

[RakuMon]

bump.

I figured this discussion was warranted since a lot of people (myself included) felt that the amount of 'homage' to STM in Superman Returns was overkill.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I think it was used to remind people of the original movie.. but thats just me.

[Milkman95]

bump.

I figured this discussion was warranted since a lot of people (myself included) felt that the amount of 'homage' to STM in Superman Returns was overkill.

Yeah, it did get to be overkill at times, but him repeating the Jor-El speech at the end of the film was very well done IMO.

[Manhunter]

lmao.

I would agree there was too much, but in act III I saw a transition, from the Hommage to the present. I take it with a grain if salt because not even 1/2 of the people going to see SR know what post-crisis means.

It kind of sucks that I have to sit on the short bus waiting for the laymen to catch up, but I really think the GPublic needed this transition movie.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

maybe maybe not..but i think its warrented..as many still cant get chris reeve out of there head as supes.. it might have been needed.

[Manhunter]

maybe maybe not..but i think its warrented..as many still cant get chris reeve out of there head as supes.. it might have been needed.

That was the initial feeling I had after viewing it. It helped me get some closure over CR as well, catching a hint of my favourite incarnation one last time.

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

That was the initial feeling I had after viewing it. It helped me get some closure over CR as well, catching a hint of my favourite incarnation one last time.



:cool:

and i havn't even seen it yet.

i can't wait..

superman gives people hope..it gives me hope.

[Steelsheen]

Is there a chance the Hommage will bite SR in the ass?

i think it already has :(

[Superman79]

i think it already has :(

I think SR bite SR in the ass...:(

[charl_huntress]

LOL...what words of wisdom from an Oldguy :(