Discusin' the Skull

[AmerikazMostWanted]

how are they gonna use nick cages skull for ghost riders head? i hope they change his skull to look normal because nick cages head looks like a monkey along with his face to me hope he looks cool

[Obi-Ron]

how are they gonna use nick cages skull for ghost riders head?

I'm pretty sure they are going to actually set Nicholas Cage's skull on fire. Which is too bad, since it makes a sequel unlikely.

[lockjaw]

it'll work, there shooting it Pre-qual style . . .



I'm pretty sure they are going to actually set Nicholas Cage's skull on fire. Which is too bad, since it makes a sequel unlikely.

[The Lizard]

I'm pretty sure they are going to actually set Nicholas Cage's skull on fire. Which is too bad, since it makes a sequel unlikely.

Now THAT would make me happy to see Cage in this movie. :D

[FlameHead]

It would certainly be a funny outtake.

I have faith in Cage though. He's finally getting a superhero movie... and it's one of his favorite characters.

[Nero_Ordin]

It would certainly be a funny outtake.

I have faith in Cage though. He's finally getting a superhero movie... and it's one of his favorite characters.

i think he do great job since he loves the comic.

[FlameHead]

Me too. I'm looking foward to it... now that it has settled in my mind. I was totally against it for the first 10 months or so that I chatted here. But, that was mainly because I was hoping to see Danny in the reigns. Now that it's Blaze for sure (with a hint of Ketch, so MSJ reasures me) I like that it's Nic.

[That-Guy]

I think Nic will do a good job. He wasn't right for Superman, that was for sure, but I think he can play a hawg riding badass like Johnny Cage. He has the look to some degree (though not the hair, but oh well) and he's a lot better of an actor than people give him credit for (if you disagree, check out Leaving Las Vegas, Adaptation, or Matchstick Men).

[KenK]

Nic Cage finally gets his comic book movie. I've always liked him as an actor, and this is definitely a better fit for him than Superman. Superman is all about the look of the actor playing him, and Nicholas Cage was never gonna look like Superman.

[FlameHead]

Never in a million years. I agree.

[Chaos Bringer]

There was pic online somewhere of a Figurine made for The Cage/Burton Superman.
He looked like an astonaut. Awful. I wonder if that footage will ever be released...maybe as an extra on Singers Version?

[FlameHead]

Doubtful... as interesting as it would be to see. I fear something like that would hurt his believabilaty in the GR role anyway.

[Crowley9]

I'm really hoping this will eventually lead to a sequel with Danny Ketch and Cage reprising his role as Blaze. Not to put down Cage and the original Ghost Rider, Ketch is just the one I've read most and thus feel closest to.

[Matis17]

I'm really hoping this will eventually lead to a sequel with Danny Ketch and Cage reprising his role as Blaze. Not to put down Cage and the original Ghost Rider, Ketch is just the one I've read most and thus feel closest to.This is something they likely would never do unless Cage didn't want to come back for a sequel.

Just saying. ;)

[ms.marvelous]

I have faith in Cage though. He's finally getting a superhero movie... and it's one of his favorite characters.

It'd be more coincidental if he were playing Luke Cage tho (aside from the fact that Luke Cage is a big black man), seeing as how he changed his stage name (from Nicholas Coppola) to Nicholas Cage because Luke Cage was also one of his favorite characters

[FlameHead]

If Luke wasn't a black man, Nic probably would have went after the role...

... and I'm sure if the movie ever gets developed, Nic will be rumoured to be playing him. He's rumored to play everyone else.

[Samaritan]

This "Nick Cage's Skull" thread reminds me of a thought/concern I recently had while considering the movie. To me, it seems essential that the actor or stunt person wear an actual flickering light on their head during filming. Sound ridiculous? While the flaming head will be cgi, this necessitates that every surface around the Ghost Rider also be artificially lit during the post production of the movie. This works fine for a completely computer generated background, but in a physical setting it would add a lot of work to make it look convincing. Any thoughts?

[Hollywood Ghost]

in a physical setting it would add a lot of work to make it look convincing. Any thoughts?

Marvel isnt trying very hard anymore so i doubt making it look convincing is their top priority. You can always strike a set to make it look like a flame is on or offscreen, People have been faking flames and alluding to them in movies for years.

[WildCard]

computer animation

prostetics maybe

[Kung Fu master]

This "Nick Cage's Skull" thread reminds me of a thought/concern I recently had while considering the movie. To me, it seems essential that the actor or stunt person wear an actual flickering light on their head during filming. Sound ridiculous? While the flaming head will be cgi, this necessitates that every surface around the Ghost Rider also be artificially lit during the post production of the movie. This works fine for a completely computer generated background, but in a physical setting it would add a lot of work to make it look convincing. Any thoughts?

He should wear a ski mask with christmas lights on it:D:up:

[LordSimen]

This "Nick Cage's Skull" thread reminds me of a thought/concern I recently had while considering the movie. To me, it seems essential that the actor or stunt person wear an actual flickering light on their head during filming. Sound ridiculous? While the flaming head will be cgi, this necessitates that every surface around the Ghost Rider also be artificially lit during the post production of the movie. This works fine for a completely computer generated background, but in a physical setting it would add a lot of work to make it look convincing. Any thoughts?

How in god's name would you pull that off without A. ****ing with the lighting of the room itself or B. Blinding poor Nick Cage. :(

[RedIsNotBlue]

Has anyone seen this yet? It looks cheesy but interesting.

http://www.goat.com/ghost_rider.html

[BIGGUN]

Has anyone seen this yet? It looks cheesy but interesting.

http://www.goat.com/ghost_rider.html


Yup...that link was posted in the Official GR Hype thread longggg time ago...
that was when the GR film was being developed in the mid 90s. granted it does look cheesy by today's standards but that was the best they could do at the time.

[FlameHead]

... but they'll do much better now. Much, much better. I have no fear in that.

[HerosOnFilm]

I'm pretty sure they are going to actually set Nicholas Cage's skull on fire. Which is too bad, since it makes a sequel unlikely.

Ohhh God this made me laugh my a$$ off!!!!!!!!! :D

[FlameHead]

The thought of your ass falling off made me laugh my ass off... which made me cry. I like having my ass. It's good for sitting on... or with I guess.

[Marcus M.]

http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/200521334813_ghostrider.jpg
http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/200521335126_ghostridertest.jpg
http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/200521335258_ghostrider1.jpg
http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/200521335449_ghostriderfanart2.jpg
http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/200521335644_ghostriderposter.jpg
http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/2005213418_mini-mini-mini-mini-mini-ghostriderfanart3.jpg
http://sfbayvideos.com/forum/data/Osyrus/200521341017_Ghost.jpg

[Bathrat]

interesting art in that last pic

[FlameHead]

Interesting indeed. I can't wait to see that transformation on screen.

[Abe]

My brother and I were discussing last night just what the skull will look like flamed up on the big screen.
Are the studio going to map out Nicolas Cage's head and do x-rays to see what his skull looks like underneath....? Personally I want to see an image as close to the human skull as possible.
That being said, I was wondering if one of you guys can use photoshop or a similar program, to add flames to this image? please....? :)
http://www.sculpturegallery.com/three/human_male_skull.jpg
Any help here would be appreaciated. As for why I'm asking for it? I'm just WAY too over eager to see GR on the big screen!
Another point of interest my brother and I discussed; how will they show emotion when Johnny is Ghost Rider? I mean, it's not like he has any eyeballs, nose, or fully developed mouth!
cheers!
abe :ghost:

[MarvelMovies]

Not a skull, but 'Super Adam' added spikes to Nic Cage's jacket from a recent picture.

Right Way:
http://img76.exs.cx/img76/8599/nic016vc.jpg

Opposite:
http://img76.exs.cx/img76/3015/nichghostrider0ys.jpg

I posted the skull picture above on IGR as well... in hopes that somebody will add some flames.

[InVictus]

;Well, on Vengeance Unbound there was already in the fan art gallery a cool wallpaper/possible teaser poster with a "true" skull photoshopped very well with real flames effect, it was for some months my desktop^_^;
When VU turns online again you could see it. Or, if someone can post it here...
Btw, in the GRII comics, "emotions" were mostly portrayed by only changing the skull position and point of view(a lower point of view could simulate a sorrowful look, while a taller pow could enhance some angry look: the basis of emotions through masks) a the look of the orbits: especially with Texeira inking, GR had two orbits who were almost fissures: by changing the degree of opening (from "anatomically correct"open orbits to "really closed, focused, in one word: angry" orbits). Like using "bone" brows instead of meat brows.
The closest thing this particular effect appeared by now on screen is found on the first "Mortal Kombat" movie, when Scorpion pulls off his mask, revealing is bare skull: then a camera zoom on his face shows his orbits turn "angry". That scene was not very well done, almost cheesy/stop motion/comical, but the first time i saw it i screamed "It's Ghost Rider!" :D
The Cannes Poster shows an anatomically correct skull...but it was a very early concept...
Also in the Goyer script, GR had actually a "plasma/fire" purple face of Nicolas Cage flicking on the skull thus enabling some acting...
I hope they choose the original way of GRII comics though, because imho it can fit well even with some old good evil infernal laughs from the first comic...

[InVictus]

Aughh!Right way spikes are so cool!The 3 spikes in line are a GR trademark, with the 6 spiked, leather forearm 3-band protections...

[BIGGUN]

but the first time i saw it i screamed "It's Ghost Rider!" :D



haha...i said the same thing about scorpion. no matter how bad the film was ...the scorpion scene was worth it just for that GRish moment heh

ive always thought the same way about expression how they will probably do something w/ the brow or eye sockets to show anger or surprise. i just hope they dont make it too extreme or it could look rather cartoonish.
the 1st time i read that "Ghost Blaze" bit where you could see Cage's transparent face over the skull i almost yelled out "WTF!!!???" heh
i completely despise that idea...

[InVictus]

You know, i despised the fireface idea too...but if it's used only in some parts of the movie, maybe before the retransformation in Blaze, or when Blaze take some control on GR, maybe when he is alone, or has some flashback, or generally some "calm" moments..
Then....it could even works...but it should be used very rarely in the movie...
The good thing is that all theese visual effects can somewhat work along...
But, not purple.

[BIGGUN]

agreed...if its something like he was weakening or if Blaze was trying to force his way back into his body then thats ok. only "flashes" of his human face though...like in small parts on the skull maybe...but just not the whole face. the major problem that i had was the way it was described in the script where everytime GR spoke Cage's face would appear...ugh

[1987olds442]

Here is the cover to issue 18 of the 2nd series it something like that you are looking for...
http://www.comicspriceguide.com/images/covers/2784/18.gif

[FlameHead]

Great idea on trying to find someone to put some flames on that Skull. It may tide some of us over until seeing an actual image. I hope somebody is up to the task.

I really hope there is no Cage face in flames. I really do. It makes sense and can understand why they would do that... but I just think it would look horrible. If he is fighting the transformation, you wouldn't see a spirited face in flames. What you would see is the flames dying slightly and possibly even flesh starting to re-form on the skull bone. Now that would be cool!

Oh, and the jacket spikes look great! Great job superadam. I wonder will Ghost Rider will wear a Cowboy hat on top of those flames? hehe.

[Orko Is King]

I think it'd be cool if they x-rayed Nic Cage's head and used the x-rays to do a CGI flaming skull while he's in Ghost Rider mode.

[SilentType]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/SilentType/gr.jpg

[Abe]

HOT DAMN! THAT IS SO CRAZY!!!!!!!!
i LOVE it! :)

[BIGGUN]

Awesome SilentType! really cool stuff....
where did that pic of the burning bike come from? might nice shot :up:

[FlameHead]

I think it'd be cool if they x-rayed Nic Cage's head and used the x-rays to do a CGI flaming skull while he's in Ghost Rider mode.

I'm sure the'll do something like that. Probably not an X-Ray but, they will most likely use those graphic plot ball things that they use for movie animations. That'll most likely be enough to sculpt a CG skull from... provided they are using a CG skull, which I assume they will be.

[Nivek]

Pick the ones you agree with the most...


1- Demonized Skull
2- reguler "Nick Cage" Skull
3- Charred blackened bone (think LOTR's Balrog)
4- Reguler white Bone
5- Flame is coming from the bone itself
6- Flames wrap around bones like Flesh
7- Skull floats in Flames
8- You see spinal column attached to skull
9- Eyes always seen in skull
10- Eyes are empty till Penance stare

[SuGarRush]

7, 10, 4, 1

[InVictus]

3/4(it needs a mix of the two), 5, 10

[Riding Ghost]

7,10,4

[WiscoD]

Didnt MSJ say theres going to be several looks for ghost rider? My impression at the Con was that he would use several versions depending on the action taking place. IE classic GR for most of the movie, and maybee a glimpse of the Grayson Miki GR at the climax, to kinda pay homage to all the GR looks. Infact i believe he said at the con that sometimes the spikes on the jackets will be 3in long, and other times they will be much bigger(miki). Am i wrong in this impression??? and wouldnt that be a clue that the look may change during the movie???

[Mr Nick]

10 and 5 for sure. I want a pretty regular skull, but with slightly menacing eye sockets, brows angled down a little.

:ghost:

[FlameHead]

This is a great topic as the skull was my major concern when seeing the first image of Ghost Rider. I found it to be too... Metallic or something.

Anyway, from your suggestions, I would definatly like to see a regular looking white skull (4) on top of a regular looking spinal column (8). I mean, there is no need to horror up that image. A walking flaming regular skeleton is perfect for me.

As for the flames on this regular bone, I definatly don't want to see the skull floating in it, a la the Hammer Crap series. Wraping around the bone would work for me (6) but, I'm not sure about it looking like flesh. It should look like the way it does on a piece of wood; the closer to the wood the flame is so hot it's invisable moving to some blues, yellows and oranges.

The eyes, IMO, should not be there until he's doing the Pennance Stare (10). Empty sockets are scarier and way cooler looking.

[InVictus]

The major problem of the skull is its illumination imho. In the comics the full white skull worked easily because that was a good contrast on the almost black pages. In a movie...you HAVE to show some shadow/lightning on it to avoid flatness. And if you make it pure white, you risk the "plastic" effect you saw in the footage. The skin to be applied on the 3d model will play a huge role in GR making...and his expressions too.
Just an example: all head almost white, with brows, cheeckbones and tooths/mandible all shaded brown bone/burned/shadowed, like with a light on the back of the head ->GR very angry. And this one coul even contrast very good with the penance stare. I think the best would be adapting the skull lightning to every scene/background, and even Gr emotions.
In fact, changing the skull lightning coul be even more effective than animating part of the skull(brows). By animation there's high cartoon effect risk. By lightning, the results can be even more serious and...impressive.

[FlameHead]

You're definatly right about having it all white; they definatly should not have it that way, like a polished cleaned up skull. Something like this is what you're talking about I would assume...

http://www.skullsnfossils.com/members/1255489/uploaded/Fossils/Contemporary/HumanMaleSkull_0200.jpg

The lighting is going to be extreamly hard for the skull because it's surrounded in fire. How do you put shadaws and such in there?

[InVictus]

well, it depends from various things. To example, imagine GR with full roaring white hot flame(very pissed off). I think in that case the best way should be to not show the vertebral column, and only the front part of the skull, almost black, by contrast with the flame, with eyes and nose holes also white. With "normal" fire i woul make it with black eye/nose sockets, light bone color, with variable shadow on the forehead/between eye sockets.

[Vartha]

6, 8, I've always liked the idea that fire was like a skin around Blazes skeleton. Which is why I drew his neck in on my drawing in the fan art thread.

[WiscoD]

6 and 10 for me...

[Uncanny Orb]

I took the poster and blackened out the eyes and around the teeth and any other little holes in the skull and now it looks exactly like I want to see him.

[FlameHead]

How about you post it and show us? I'd love to see it.

well, it depends from various things. To example, imagine GR with full roaring white hot flame(very pissed off). I think in that case the best way should be to not show the vertebral column, and only the front part of the skull, almost black, by contrast with the flame, with eyes and nose holes also white. With "normal" fire i woul make it with black eye/nose sockets, light bone color, with variable shadow on the forehead/between eye sockets.

I have to disagree with the vertebral column though. I don't want to see Ghost Rider's Skull floating in the flame. It has to be connected to something. In fact, I'm hoping to see his jacket schredded and pieces hanging off at some point so that we can see the whole flaming skeleton... or more parts of it anyway.

[Hellcycle2000]

i prefer the decayed demonic look ghost rider

https://home.comcast.net/~svgjr1975/skull.jpg

[MarvelMovies]

That skull that FH posted is hecka scary...

Just stare at that thing for a few minutes, you'll be seeing it in your dreams tonight next to that gorgeous girl you'll wish were real...

[FlameHead]

It is pretty eerie MM. The eye sockets seem bottomless.

i prefer the decayed demonic look ghost rider

https://home.comcast.net/~svgjr1975/skull.jpg

Decayed and demonic is always good... unless it's your girlfriend of course.

[WiscoD]

Jeez, i really want to see the GR cameos after seeing these screen caps..

[FlameHead]

You and me both Wisco.

[FlameHead]

Another question that could be brought up is whether or not he'll have 'fangs' or not. Some artists drew him with those pointed teeth when others didn't. I'm wondering which artists influenced the look of our moive Ghost Rider more?

[Mr Nick]

Well, I'm firmly a Texeira/Saltares man. Theirs were the first Ghost Rider comics I read. For me, that's the perfect Ghost Rider look: a realistic skull with soulless empty sockets, a not overly huge frame (ahem Ron Garney ahem), dressed in spiked leathers and carrying his trademark chain. Pretty much what we saw in the Comic Con poster (eyes excepted).

Having said that, I'm really looking forward to seeing what other gear he'll wear in the film and how it'll warp when he transforms.

:ghost:

[Radford]

1,4,5,7,10

[FlameHead]

Well, I'm firmly a Texeira/Saltares man. Theirs were the first Ghost Rider comics I read. For me, that's the perfect Ghost Rider look: a realistic skull with soulless empty sockets, a not overly huge frame (ahem Ron Garney ahem), dressed in spiked leathers and carrying his trademark chain. Pretty much what we saw in the Comic Con poster (eyes excepted).

Having said that, I'm really looking forward to seeing what other gear he'll wear in the film and how it'll warp when he transforms.

:ghost:

This is exactly the era I'm most fond of as well. They definatly had a handle on how the character looked. This is why I posed the question on the fangs actually, as they were the team to use the fangs. Tex espeically, if I remember.

[NDX]

What do you mean by fangs? Large canines? I just want to be sure.

I remember Erik Larson (Larsen? been a while, forgot how to spell his name) drawing large canines when Ghost Rider guess-stared in Spiderman.

I prefer the style of Tex overall and hope they just go for a skull (something I have never been able to draw myself). Plain a simple. I think that is imposing enough without the exaggerated teeth.

And no moving brow. That really bothered me when reading the comic. I know the character needed to show emotion, and it is very hard to do it just through camera angles alone, but the shifting brow just made me uneasy.

[GraveDigger]

2, 4, 6, 8, 10.

[Seeker]

What about that: flesh and muscles of the head turns into fire, remaining only the skull?

[FlameHead]

What do you mean by fangs? Large canines? I just want to be sure.

I remember Erik Larson (Larsen? been a while, forgot how to spell his name) drawing large canines when Ghost Rider guess-stared in Spiderman.

I prefer the style of Tex overall and hope they just go for a skull (something I have never been able to draw myself). Plain a simple. I think that is imposing enough without the exaggerated teeth.

And no moving brow. That really bothered me when reading the comic. I know the character needed to show emotion, and it is very hard to do it just through camera angles alone, but the shifting brow just made me uneasy.

I don't think we'll see any Skull structural changes in the movie. They can get away with those things in the comics but not on film.

Indeed, what I mean't by fangs was oversized pointed canines. Not to the point of a vampire say but bigger and pointier yes.

[Jin Saotome]

On a totally weird note... I was watching the Army of Darkness DVD special features and came across this little blurb where they mentioned Sam Raimi had the model makers build up on a normal skull to give it more personality/features. They made them bigger brows, sloped eyes, an overall meaner look to a regular human skull that they started out working with.

After watching the clips of GR punching, pointing, etc, I noticed it's just a skull floating there and the jaw moving. No facial expressions because it's just a skull, and while he looked quite awesome, it didn't convey anger or determination the way an actor's face would.

So my question is... would he appear better if the skull had more defined features than just a regular human skull, and what if the bone warped/changed to reflect him being pissed off and what not? I understand how this goes against how real bone works, a jawbone moves only a few directions and it's the lips/mouth that give a defining emotion. I scanned through a lot of the GR comics I have... and low n' behold, the artists do draw the eye sockets of his skull wider in certain instances, his mouth turned up into a snarl at times.

I wonder if they're going to do this later on? The long door-sized poster of him has the skull looking much meaner and elongated than a normal skull, the brow tilted forward and such. I was hoping to see the glowing red flames as pupils, directing his sight as well. I see them in the posters, but not on the clips.

[InVictus]

In the second clip actually little red flame pupils are visible...
The problem with too much animated bone is that it could end like Scorpion in Mortal Kombat movie, which looked very cartonish when his skull got angry...
There are ways to make a skull "angry" even withouth animating it...by positioning it correctly...(example, the T-800 skull)
Clayton Crane, to example, draws GR with exagerated "open" eye sockets as in everlasting surprise...but it works somehow... It really depends on the GR general body language, position, lightning etcc...

[Mr Nick]

I've always hated overly-stylised drawings of Ghost Rider. How can you go wrong with a flaming skull? It looks scary and cool as is. There's no need to narrow the eyes to a ridiculous degree or warp anything. They did that with The Mummy and it looked like he was made out of living plasticine rather than bone.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I love the look in the movie. Love it.

:ghost:

[Uncanny Orb]

I don't think having the skull frown and what not is going to happen and I'm glad for that. Instead they are using the flames to show emotion. Heres what MSJ said in an interview.
"And being able to use fire as a way to give expression, which you can't with a skull. You take the shadows of the fire and the way the fire moves to give expressions and moods, which is really great because you can't get that in the comic. You can see it change before your eyes.

"When Ghost Rider's angry, he'll go white-hot with flame. When he gets sad, it will literally go blue. There's a way you can use the fire as an extension of his personality."

[InVictus]

The point is: if it's animated, it doesn't seems a skull... a skull is, by definition a dead thing,
Ghost Rider= skull on fire, not a "face" on fire...
Even Spawn eyes, although well done, seemed cartonish/out of place in a movie...

[Jin Saotome]

So even tho the skull changed shape sometimes in the comics, movie-wise it's a no-no, gotcha.

Er... what about Blackheart who has no face?

[superkong 500]

So even tho the skull changed shape sometimes in the comics, movie-wise it's a no-no, gotcha.

Er... what about Blackheart who has no face? well black heart does have a face but not a mouth, I think they should leave tha like that i nthe movies just express his emossions through his eyes which should be red btw oh and his tentacles -like hair should move as well.

[Uncanny Orb]

He'll have a mouth in the movie, I'd bet anything.

[BIGGUN]

He'll have a mouth in the movie, I'd bet anything.


i really hope not....not having a mouth made BH creepier lookin imo.

[str8raz0r]

In the second clip actually little red flame pupils are visible...


I think that's just little bits of fire "leaking" out through the optic nerve openings in the back of the eye sockets.

In any case, it's a cool little extra sliver of detail they're throwing in.

[Chris Wallace]

On a totally weird note... I was watching the Army of Darkness DVD special features and came across this little blurb where they mentioned Sam Raimi had the model makers build up on a normal skull to give it more personality/features. They made them bigger brows, sloped eyes, an overall meaner look to a regular human skull that they started out working with.

After watching the clips of GR punching, pointing, etc, I noticed it's just a skull floating there and the jaw moving. No facial expressions because it's just a skull, and while he looked quite awesome, it didn't convey anger or determination the way an actor's face would.

So my question is... would he appear better if the skull had more defined features than just a regular human skull, and what if the bone warped/changed to reflect him being pissed off and what not? I understand how this goes against how real bone works, a jawbone moves only a few directions and it's the lips/mouth that give a defining emotion. I scanned through a lot of the GR comics I have... and low n' behold, the artists do draw the eye sockets of his skull wider in certain instances, his mouth turned up into a snarl at times.

I wonder if they're going to do this later on? The long door-sized poster of him has the skull looking much meaner and elongated than a normal skull, the brow tilted forward and such. I was hoping to see the glowing red flames as pupils, directing his sight as well. I see them in the posters, but not on the clips.
I'm kind of on the fence here; I remember when Scorpion took off his mask in "Mortal Kombat" I thought it would be a wicked-cool GR effect. But I don't think they should tamper w/it like that. Maybe they can convey emotion through fluctuating fire fx?:ghost:

[Uncanny Orb]

They are using flames for emotion.
I don't think having the skull frown and what not is going to happen and I'm glad for that. Instead they are using the flames to show emotion. Heres what MSJ said in an interview.
"And being able to use fire as a way to give expression, which you can't with a skull. You take the shadows of the fire and the way the fire moves to give expressions and moods, which is really great because you can't get that in the comic. You can see it change before your eyes.

"When Ghost Rider's angry, he'll go white-hot with flame. When he gets sad, it will literally go blue. There's a way you can use the fire as an extension of his personality."

[Jin Saotome]

I heard they're using flames for emotions, yeah. But remember that's physical emotion, like an octopus or chamelon that turns a darker color when threatened, not facial emotion than an actor can convey. Don't get me wrong, the flames should definatly change with his mood/actions! I just keep picturing him being so much more identifiable if just the brow of his skull moved.

[Uncanny Orb]

That would probably be ok if it had already moved before they pan to his skull, but to actually watch it move would be kinda weird if you get what I mean.

[Mr Nick]

Skulls are made out of bone. Bone isn't flexible. If there was even a hint of movement, it'd look plain wrong to me.

:ghost:

[Torakhan]

I couldn't see where anyone else had posted this, so if it's in the wrong place, I appologize.

I just created these tonight... I might work up better ones later if my muse inspires me, or if others seem to like them.

http://www.furnation.com/torakhan/icons/gr_point_animated_icon1.gif
http://www.furnation.com/torakhan/icons/gr_point_animated_icon2.gif
(and again, sorry if not only is this in the wrong place to post this, but if the HTML tags I used backfire on me too)

=www.arthurdreese.com=

[Jin Saotome]

Skulls are made out of bone. Bone isn't flexible. If there was even a hint of movement, it'd look plain wrong to me.

:ghost:


But all this is mystical/magical in nature anyway. I mean GR can have stuff chipped/torn off him and regenerates it. Hellfire flames come from nowhere and don't catch stuff on fire. I can see a 'living' skull, it is afterall the embodiment of the Spirit of Vengence.

[InVictus]

But the viewer associates moving=face, no moving, hollow, hard=skull.
I'm talking about mind associations...a skull smiling, blinking, is registered by the mind as a face..

[Chris Wallace]

Granted, there have been many comic panels in which GR's face registered emotion. But y'know what? There have been a great many comic panels in which SPIDER-MAN's face registered emotion, too. What you can get away with when drawing it & what you can get away with on film are two different things.

[FlameHead]

To answer the question, fire and shadows is enough to covery emotion. To silly it up with bone movements would be a bad, bad idea. It worked in the comic for me but seeing the bone actually moving wouldn't work at all.

MSJ's idea of the fire changing colors is quite smart actually and I really like that he understands that the hellfire is as important a character as Ghost Rider himself is.

[t-800]

I wonder if they used x-rays of Cage's actual skull as the model for the one in the movie. I heard skulls to reconstruct most of the person's facial features, so I would figure that each person's skull is somewhat unique. Thought it would make movie more interesting if they did that.

[Uncanny Orb]

I've heard that IS what they did, but that could be B.S.

[zer00]

Well we know they used his actual teeth

[screenamesuck]

I remember this being brought up a long time ago and nobody really knew then. I believe it is on one of the last few pages.

[HighVoltage]

I wonder if they used x-rays of Cage's actual skull as the model for the one in the movie. I heard skulls to reconstruct most of the person's facial features, so I would figure that each person's skull is somewhat unique. Thought it would make movie more interesting if they did that.

That´s creepy.

[gvcool2]

I wonder if they used x-rays of Cage's actual skull as the model for the one in the movie. I heard skulls to reconstruct most of the person's facial features, so I would figure that each person's skull is somewhat unique. Thought it would make movie more interesting if they did that.

this relates very much to my main issue so far with the movie (its essentially the biggest issue as well), i just don't believe at the moment that when im looing at gr in full form that i'm looking at nic cage as well, i may be the only person who feels this, but when i saw gr i always thought i would feel like thats nic cage's body/head not a complelty different person.

[The Joker]

but when he's in GR form he is a totally different person...so why would he move like Cage, or do anything like Cage other than looking like Cages skeleton?

[screenamesuck]

Are you suppose to be able to recognize someone by looking at their skull. I know if I saw a relatives skeleton I wouldn't know it was them unless someone told me. As far as movement, Ghost Rider is not Blaze. It's two different personalities, so they are not gonna act the same.

[str8raz0r]

Are you suppose to be able to recognize someone by looking at their skull. I know if I saw a relatives skeleton I wouldn't know it was them unless someone told me. As far as movement, Ghost Rider is not Blaze. It's two different personalities, so they are not gonna act the same.

^^^EXACTLY. Zarathos is just using Blaze as a host.

[gvcool2]

you all make valid points, but when reading the comics i always felt that although he is being basically possessed its him under there. The shot which showed this the most was in the trailer where he says 'lets ride' and turns straight into gr, the transition although sfx are smooth the mental transition just didnt work for me.

[screenamesuck]

Well I certainly don't wanna see a goofy ghost rider, so i'm glad he doesn't have the same personality as Blaze sometimes

[Kaboom]

^^^EXACTLY. Zarathos is just using Blaze as a host.

i admittedly dont know much bout GR, but i thought zaarthos was bonded with ketch.

[str8raz0r]

i admittedly dont know much bout GR, but i thought zaarthos was bonded with ketch.

Nope. Zarathos was w/ Blaze. Ketch was Noble Kale.

[Midnyte_Sun]

I agree that the skull is too hard to make out individually from any other unless you work for forensics. Also the hands they showed zipping up the jacket were the hands of a giant 7 foot tall man because real finger bones are not that huge on an average body.

To mold a real skull from Cage, he would have to have either an MRI (Safer, but less detail), or a CT 3D Reconstruction, which would be equavalent of blasting his head with enough radiation as over 250 chest xrays. I think its better his head to be on fire than to glow, IMO.

There are plenty of skull models that they can buy to model a real skull from if they wanted to. But the GR skull in essence, is mystical, and therefore it molds into a more demonic features (arched menacing stare, etc) and does not have to be anatomically correct.

[str8raz0r]

I guess we'll just have to flay Nic Cage's head to find out, won't we?

[BURNFOREVER]

I guess we'll just have to flay Nic Cage's head to find out, won't we?

Hey, man: where did you get the pic of your avatar?
It´s really cool.
:) :up:

[str8raz0r]

Hey, man: where did you get the pic of your avatar?
It´s really cool.
:) :up:

I got it from a page of "Marvel Tails starring Peter Porker the Spectacular Spider-Ham." Little back-up called "Goose Rider."

Thanks for the compliment!

[IamtheNeonBlack]

Is'nt the skull from the trailer still a prototype? It does'nt look like it's finished. Needs more enhancement.

[BIGGUN]

Is'nt the skull from the trailer still a prototype? It does'nt look like it's finished. Needs more enhancement.


.i agree it does look unfinished.
just compare that online trailer to this clip that MSJ sent to SHH in Dec...that clip is superior to the skull seen in the online trailer.
http://downloads.comingsoon.net/GR_Point.mov
im sure THAT will be the final version
i did notice though that the trailer in theaters also has better skull details.
dont know if when they encoded to Quicktime if the cgi details were washed out or simply they were rushed for time and had to get a less than polished trailer out for the net. hoping MSJ could answer that for us...

[FlameHead]

I doubt anything is final at this point. They'll likely tweek right up until the last months and/or weeks before the release.

As for the skull in the trailer, I have to agree that it looks kinda bad BUT, it was only on the online version. When I seen the trailer on the big screen, thinks look a thousand times better. Crisper, darker, more defined.

No worries folks.

[Midnyte_Sun]

Again, I have yet to see the trailer in the movie theatres during X3. They better show it during Superman.

[FlameHead]

Screw Superman

[BIGGUN]

Screw Superman


heh..it has been getting good reviews though. not surprised by that...hope its decent.

anyway...back to more important things :)
has anyone seen the GR teaser w/ anything other than X3? and is it still playing? i havent heard of anyone mentioning it w/ another film...odd

[FlameHead]

Odd indeed. In fact, I find it very strange that they're taking this long to bring something else out. Seems to me they should have a somewhat steady stream of news by now to start building the hype. I mean, I have a tonne of faith in Sony and their promotional powers but, I'm starting to get a little worried... and/or ticked off. hehe.

Oh, and as for Supes, I'm sure it'll be great. I hate the character but, I have a lot of respect for Singer (even if he did abandon the X franchise... bastard!) and as an actor, I admore Kevin Spacey a whole hell of a lot. He's the man. I'll see it, no doubt but, I'm in no rush to.

[BIGGUN]

yeah i know FH...but again we arent even at the 6 month point yet which is normally when advertisements start for a big budget film. that or maybe a month before its released.
so far we havent seen any signs of a teaser poster or even a cardboard standup. even the Punisher had at least 1 from what i remember...and it was a year before it was released. if there arent any advertisements until right before the movie opens it will look like Sony is trying to cut their losses. maybe they figure they will be wasting money on a film they know wont do well?
guess we will know for sure in a few months....

also im agreement about the ticked off comment...heh. honestly if i were in charge of promotion i would not have released that trailer online. that trailer w/ the unfinished cgi did more harm than good imo.

[FlameHead]

I have to agree with that.... though not many people really picked it apart because, I believe, they were still blown away and/or surprised by how good the story is looking.

Besides, all promotion is good promotion.