Why does everyone hate The Batman?

[Infinity]

It's a pretty good show, not as good as Batman: TAS but so what? The fight scenes are much better. Batman's movements are also much more acrobatic, which I like.

[LegionsOfGotham]

Wow, you really set yourself up with this topic Infinity, lol.

You know, I enjoy both BTAS and The Batman. There are aspects of both that I love. I think that fans can get attached to one certain style, concept and level of storytelling and then can't accept anything different.

Also, a lot of fans are younger, and don't remember the broad history of Batman in animation, ALL of which was a little more light-hearted pre-BTAS (ie: SuperFriends and Filmation's Batman)

I love ALL things Batman, from Adam West to Christian Bale. Doesn't matter much to me...as long as the important elements are there.

[SHADOWBAT69]

i'll admit, at first i was pretty closed minded about The Batman. After giving it some time i have come to enjoy the show. Its not my number 1 pick for animated incarnations but its still a decent Batman representation. Remember, if TAS was continued or copied it wouldnt be classic.

[Silver Sable]

I like the action but the new designs on most of the characters suck

[lionhart]

I have a lot of reasons why I dislike The Batman. And these are my opinions why:

1) The character redesigns. The Joker as a Rastafarian, Bane as a big red thug, and The Riddler.....it amazes me where they got the idea to use Marilyn Manson as a inspiration for him. There's absolutely no roots at all in the comics, and I don't see how this is an improvement.
2) I seriously question the goals of the series. I've watched about 8 episodes. I've seen all of the designs. There just haven't been any standout tales unlike B:TAS. I think this series was made to solely sell toys.
3) Of course, the Batman ban on all series but this one. Ugh.

[jaydawg]

I think the show is decent, but its effects (Bat-embargo) is what bothers me the most. The fact that characters that they dont even use cant be used on JLU especially bother me.

But the thing is, the stories themselves arent good. They're average stories with half assed characterization. This show has potential to be great (its DTV is on par with the best BTAS stories), but most of the time it chooses to showcase the Joker or their terrible matrix Penguin with mixed results. Plus, for the most part, the character designs themselves are awful.

[Bullseye]

I haven't watched The Batman.

Perhaps I will watch it.

[White_Howling]

I just hate it cuz it restricts the use of batman characters in the JLU universe

[LegionsOfGotham]

I can totally understand frustration about the "bat-embargo". Keep in mind, though, thats a suit descision, not one by the show's creative teams. Hence why it makes no sense, lol Its not really the shows fault.

I don't think anyone can question that BTAS/TNBA/JLU is epic. It is the absolute best incarnation of Batman in animation...but its not, nor should it be, the ONLY incarnation. Since that show is over and wasn't coming back..I'm all for somethin' new.

[TRUE]

The batman is a bastardization of the history of batman. Character designs suck. Making the villians all hyper active(ex penguin). Penguin is not a kung fu expert. No motive behind the jokers antics. He does stuff just to be doing it.(bat in the belfry) No pacing at all in the show.

[Two-Face]

1. Bruce Wayne looks like Jackie Chan.

2. I like Batman suit and the Batmobile.

3. The Riddler looks like a freak too much like Marilyn Manson not that I hate Manson.

4. Joker looks like freak without his purple suit and give him some ****ing shoes

5. Penguin has a ginger hair it's ok tho

6.Catwoman- I like but ears too long.

7. Batgirl was totally wasn't need.

[Silver Sable]

[quote=Two Face]1. Bruce Wayne looks like Jackie Chan.

[quote]

I knew he looked familar but i couldn't think of who lol

[ABC]

The Batman has crisper fight scenes, but I agree with lionhart, the redesigns are lame.

[Binker]

Guys, I love The Batman. JLU is there too, but I love TB as well.

Sure its made for a younger audience, but the characters, despite its redesigns and change in character, still are protrayed like the villians they are:

Joker is a threat, he steals and uses devices that are very bizarre but are very dangerous like the gun to make people into playing cards. They go into a state that once they go into water, they'll drown. Since he turned Bennett into Clayface, Joker has become Batman's greatest enemy.

Penguin wants to be rich and powerful. Like Matsuda said, he is an anti-Bruce Wayne, which makes him more an enemy to Bruce, than Batman. He also wants to own the city, but what makes him have more substance, I believe is the term, is that he wants to return his family's anme back into glory. So he has a mission as well.

Catwoman. I mean do we have a problem. Last time I checked; no. Even she is the same character we all love.

Bane has been only seen once, but he's still shown to use vemon to make him stronger and a dangerous threat to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. I loved Traction because if you think about it, it was based on Knightfall.

Man-Bat is basically a huge, deadly vampire bat that while it wasn't shown, sucked blood from several mammals in its first appearence. His design is frightening.

Mr. Freeze is a mutated man-monster that has powers on a zero-degree level. People have complained that he's nothing like his BTAS version, but these characters are suppose to be based on their comic incarnations. And guess what: and comic and TB versions of Freeze are the same! Both tragic in some degree, but a villian.

Was anyone glad that Firefly wasn't a villian in degree like Penguin but a work for hire? I was.

Wesker and Scarface, dual identites from a ventriloquist and his dummy. No problem there.

Clayface was tragic and more better than his BTAS design. Nothing wrong there.

And the Riddler, he was creepy. Nothing like the '60s version nor the BTAS. That was great.

Basically you know, hopfully, where I'm going with this. No matter how much has changed from these characters into the show of The Batman, they still have their traits, they are them no matter what.

As for stories and elements in the show: blood red sky, the comics and even BTAS in a sense had something of a green/blue sky. Highlighted episodes: Traction, Rubberface of Comedy, Clayface of Tragedy, Riddled, Meltdown, Strange Minds, The Laughing Bat, how about The Batman vs. Dracula.

Get it?

[Mister J]

I'm all for new incarnations of the Bat as long as they don't suck. The Batman isn't horrible, it's OK and I check it out when I can.

I just hate that stupid new theme they put in. Bring back the original.

[Bullseye]

I think for a book or a show to be good... there has to be a good story no matter what if the art or animation is great or horribly bad.

[Darthphere]

Guys, I love The Batman. JLU is there too, but I love TB as well.

Sure its made for a younger audience, but the characters, despite its redesigns and change in character, still are protrayed like the villians they are:

Joker is a threat, he steals and uses devices that are very bizarre but are very dangerous like the gun to make people into playing cards. They go into a state that once they go into water, they'll drown. Since he turned Bennett into Clayface, Joker has become Batman's greatest enemy.

Penguin wants to be rich and powerful. Like Matsuda said, he is an anti-Bruce Wayne, which makes him more an enemy to Bruce, than Batman. He also wants to own the city, but what makes him have more substance, I believe is the term, is that he wants to return his family's anme back into glory. So he has a mission as well.

Catwoman. I mean do we have a problem. Last time I checked; no. Even she is the same character we all love.

Bane has been only seen once, but he's still shown to use vemon to make him stronger and a dangerous threat to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. I loved Traction because if you think about it, it was based on Knightfall.

Man-Bat is basically a huge, deadly vampire bat that while it wasn't shown, sucked blood from several mammals in its first appearence. His design is frightening.

Mr. Freeze is a mutated man-monster that has powers on a zero-degree level. People have complained that he's nothing like his BTAS version, but these characters are suppose to be based on their comic incarnations. And guess what: and comic and TB versions of Freeze are the same! Both tragic in some degree, but a villian.

Was anyone glad that Firefly wasn't a villian in degree like Penguin but a work for hire? I was.

Wesker and Scarface, dual identites from a ventriloquist and his dummy. No problem there.

Clayface was tragic and more better than his BTAS design. Nothing wrong there.

And the Riddler, he was creepy. Nothing like the '60s version nor the BTAS. That was great.

Basically you know, hopfully, where I'm going with this. No matter how much has changed from these characters into the show of The Batman, they still have their traits, they are them no matter what.

As for stories and elements in the show: blood red sky, the comics and even BTAS in a sense had something of a green/blue sky. Highlighted episodes: Traction, Rubberface of Comedy, Clayface of Tragedy, Riddled, Meltdown, Strange Minds, The Laughing Bat, how about The Batman vs. Dracula.

Get it?


Clearly, you have no grasp at what the Batman villians are all about.

[hippie_hunter]

1. The designs suck.

2. The show doesn't take itself seriously most of the time. Honestly if they did, the show would be on par with the Batman vs. Dracula which was totally awesome.

3. The Bat-Embargo on Justice League Unlimited.

4. Most of the voices suck except for Robert Englund's voice for the Riddler.

5. The puns, oh god the puns.

6. Batgirl, before Robin. Yes I can understand the Titan-Embargo that took into effect, but Teen Titans was going to go off the air way before the Batman would. They should have waited to introduce her AFTER obtaining the rights to Robin. Having Robin's interaction with Batgirl would have been great to see.

7. The Penguin

8. The Penguin

9. The Penguin

10. Did I mention that the Batman's version of the Penguin totally sucks. God, why the hell do they keep using him. :mad:

[Binker]

Clearly, you have no grasp at what the Batman villians are all about.

I've been a fan of Batman since I was three, I think I know PLENTY.

[War Lord]

I think Alfred's and Bruce's relationship came off better in BTAS than the Batman.

[dbucket]

Clearly, you have no grasp at what the Batman villians are all about.

What makes a villain special? Does he have to have an emphasis on superpowers and appearance, or does he have to be a deep character all on his own?

Personally, I'd pick the latter. The one villain I truly cared about in this series was Clayface, and it's a shame he doesn't get more fleshing of his character aside for a measly couple of episodes last season.

I also think that Batman/Bruce Wayne has a static type of character. I'm still surprised that he doesn't seem to care that his best friend, Ethan Bennett, became a horribly misfigured monster because of the Joker. You'd think Bruce would have a grudge against the Joker, but alas, the writers don't seem to care.

I hope Clayface resurfaces more this season, instead of Joker and Penguin, who aren't even motivated characters to begin with.

What do you guys think?

[Darthphere]

I've been a fan of Batman since I was three, I think I know PLENTY.


Is that supposed to make me respect you or something? You may have been reading since 3 but you have no understanding of the Batman villains.

[Nivek]

I've been a fan of Batman since I was three, I think I know PLENTY.


Given what you wrote, you dont know squat boy.


This cartoon has many problems that have been outlined. I liked Batman vs. Dracula alot more than any episode, and it's sad that it could perform better if it was more serious and respected the Rogues Gallery more.

It aint got nothing on BTAS.

[Silver Sable]

7. The Penguin

8. The Penguin

9. The Penguin

10. Did I mention that the Batman's version of the Penguin totally sucks. God, why the hell do they keep using him. :mad:

Actually, he looks pretty good to me.10 times better then the others :o

[Binker]

Look, we can argue all we like. But, these guys working on TB like the darker version of Batman. From that, that means that they are the right guys to do this. Plus, if you guys love TBvD than the show. So the real people you should be going after is the TV people: the FCC.

[hippie_hunter]

Actually, he looks pretty good to me.10 times better then the others :o

I'm not talking about the design. Sad fact is that the design of the Penguin is one of the best ones out there. I'm talking about how they characterize him. And his voice is also horrible. Even worse is how they use him OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER.

[hippie_hunter]

Look, we can argue all we like. But, these guys working on TB like the darker version of Batman. From that, that means that they are the right guys to do this. Plus, if you guys love TBvD than the show. So the real people you should be going after is the TV people: the FCC.

Not the FCC, parent's groups. BTAS, TNBA, STAS, JL, and JLU used blood, bullets, etc on their show. Parent's groups are the ones who want the show targeted towards children. The FCC is just a group of Nazis that simply enforce the laws to shield all of us from sex. Blood, bullets and violence is apparently doesn't matter to them.

[ZER0C00L]

i dont understand Why they wouldnt just continue the original Batman the Animated Series instead of this crap...

http://heroicimages.net/toons/batman.html

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_batman.jpg
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_batgirl1.jpg

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_catwoman.jpg
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_joker.jpg
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_mrfreeze.jpg
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_penguin.jpg

[ZER0C00L]

the original...

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_batman.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/batman.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_batgirl.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/batgirl.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_robin.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/nightwing.gif

[ZER0C00L]

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_joker.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/joker.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_harleyquinn.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/harley.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_catwoman.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/catwoman.gif

[ZER0C00L]

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_scarecrow.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/scarecrow.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_mrfreeze.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/misterfreeze.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_penguin.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/penguin.gif

[Nathan]

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_batgirl1.jpg

What the ****ing hell!? o_O Please tell me that's an early concept and not how she looks in the show. Please!

Am I glad that I stopped watching The Batman after 4 Episodes.

[ZER0C00L]

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_riddler.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/riddler.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_killercroc.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/killercroc.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_bane.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/bane.gif

[lionhart]

Look, we can argue all we like. But, these guys working on TB like the darker version of Batman. From that, that means that they are the right guys to do this. Plus, if you guys love TBvD than the show. So the real people you should be going after is the TV people: the FCC.

You're way off. This isn't the darker version of Batman. For the darker version of Batman, see B:TAS. That Batman doesn't shop for guitars, call on Alfred for enchiladas, etc. He doesn't talk a lot, he doesn't have umpteen different gadgets (see Bat-Wave, Robo Bat suit).

[Nathan]

How many different suits did The Batman already wear in the show? I've only seen the anti-freezing suit or whatever it was called.

[ZER0C00L]

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/wing_paint.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/timm_batgirl.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_timm_joker.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/unusual_suspects.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/batfriends.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/timm_gothamknights.jpg

[Nathan]

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/timm_gothamknights.jpg

Ah, good times.

[ZER0C00L]

anyone know how many volumes there will be to complete the original batman the animated series? theres 4 out now.

[lionhart]

Just four volumes, it covers the whole series.

[ZER0C00L]

Just four volumes, it covers the whole series.

really thats it? it doesnt seem like there all there.

how many episodes were there for the original batman series? BTAS, Adventures of Batman and Robin, and Gotham Knights.
theres only 28 eps a volume. doesnt seem right..
the show last 7 years and there are only 28 episodes a volume? and there are only 112 episodes to span that entire time?

[R-Taco]

the original...

http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_batman.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/batman.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_batgirl.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/batgirl.gif
http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_BTAS/btas_robin.jpghttp://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/Batman_TNBA/nightwing.gif

The GK designs are great, but this really seems to show how ugly some of the BTAS designs were, especially Franken-Robin (just my opinion).

[lionhart]

The show (combined) produced new episodes for a total of 5-6 years. It covered 109 episodes. All have been released on DVD, with the last volume containing all of the "Gotham Knights" episodes.

[ZER0C00L]

The GK designs are great, but this really seems to show how ugly some of the BTAS designs were, especially Franken-Robin (just my opinion).

i think thats just a bad shot he doesnt look that way. im watching the volume two right now.

http://www.mercadolibre.com.ec/org-img/preview/MEC/092005/1748424_1131.jpg

http://www.batmantas.com/img/robin3.jpg
http://www.batmantas.com/img/robin6.jpg
http://www.batmantas.com/img/robgirl.jpg


i didnt like some of the changes as well, like the joker he looked awful. this version from justice league looks best.http://heroicimages.net/toons/Resources/Images/JusticeLeague/jl_joker.jpg

[ZER0C00L]

The show (combined) produced new episodes for a total of 5-6 years. It covered 109 episodes. All have been released on DVD, with the last volume containing all of the "Gotham Knights" episodes.

yeah i looked it up on imdb and read some reviews on amazon.

the show started from 92-95 then a two year hiatis then the last season was in 97

[Silver Sable]

I'm not talking about the design. Sad fact is that the design of the Penguin is one of the best ones out there. I'm talking about how they characterize him. And his voice is also horrible. Even worse is how they use him OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER.

You mean the whole thing of him involved in martial arts? Yeah that's idiotic

[LostSon88]

The reason I have such a hatred for the show is because it completely IMHO disrespects the Batman legend. Now although I am not arrogant enough to say that I'm the Know-it-all of Batman mythology...i'm pretty sure that Victor Fries wasn't a petty thug, right? :sarcasm:

Hmm...the widely accepted origin of Mr. Freeze:

Origin

As shown in "Heart of Ice", Victor Fries was fascinated with freezing animals as a child, which would lead to his career in cryogenics research. He was sent to a strict boarding school by his father, where he met Nora, an attractive and gentle girl whom he subsequently married.

Unfortunately, Nora later fell terminally ill. Fries took on a job working for a large company run by the ruthless Ferris Boyle, working in his field. Fries did not like the job but needed money to help Nora.

Fries discovered a way to put Nora into cryo-stasis, hoping to sustain her until a cure could be found. Boyle attempted to have her brought out of stasis, overruling Fries' frantic objections. A struggle ensued, in which Boyle kicked Fries into a table full of chemicals and he was left for dead. He survived, but his body temperature was lowered dramatically, and from then on he could only live at sub-zero temperatures, forced to wear a special refrigerating suit to stay alive.

VS.

The "Batman"s Mr. Freeze:

A simple crook who was pursued by the Batman one night after a jewelry heist. Running into a cryogenics lab, he was knocked into one of the freeze chambers and electrocuted as his body was frozen. The experience somehow turned him into a quasi-undead being that constantly generated extreme cold around him; he was forced to wear a special suit (developed by a cryogenicist he coerced into working for him) to prevent him from freezing everything he comes in contact with. He could also (presumably) channel/focus his abilities, however.

I mean....are you kidding me?

The reason I'm using Mr. Freeze is b/c that's the only episode of TB that I was able to tolerate.

I mean i'm all about updating Batman for a newer generation, but THIS show and their 're-imagination' goes too far. It's the Schumacker of animated Batman. :mad:

[SHADOWBAT69]

The Mr. Freeze origin you stated was the creation of Dini and Timm for the Animated Series to give him more depth. It became so popular and well liked it was later written into the current canon of comics. In the beginning Freeze was known as Mr. Zero, who was just another crook with a gimmick. (i.e. him needing to use the suit) and he did just do crimes.

[SHADOWBAT69]

double post

[Wally West]

The reason so many people hate this show is because the Batman Animated series continuity still continues in Justice League Unlimited. When The Batman's existence took away the option for any Batman characters to ever apear in that continuity away, it pi$$ed people off.

The show is cheesy, it's commercialed crap, Bruce Timm's version was art insired by a genuine love for the character, and delivered with respect to the inteligence of it's audience.

[R-Taco]

The reason I have such a hatred for the show is because it completely IMHO disrespects the Batman legend. Now although I am not arrogant enough to say that I'm the Know-it-all of Batman mythology...i'm pretty sure that Victor Fries wasn't a petty thug, right? :sarcasm:

Hmm...the widely accepted origin of Mr. Freeze:

Origin

As shown in "Heart of Ice", Victor Fries was fascinated with freezing animals as a child, which would lead to his career in cryogenics research. He was sent to a strict boarding school by his father, where he met Nora, an attractive and gentle girl whom he subsequently married.

Unfortunately, Nora later fell terminally ill. Fries took on a job working for a large company run by the ruthless Ferris Boyle, working in his field. Fries did not like the job but needed money to help Nora.

Fries discovered a way to put Nora into cryo-stasis, hoping to sustain her until a cure could be found. Boyle attempted to have her brought out of stasis, overruling Fries' frantic objections. A struggle ensued, in which Boyle kicked Fries into a table full of chemicals and he was left for dead. He survived, but his body temperature was lowered dramatically, and from then on he could only live at sub-zero temperatures, forced to wear a special refrigerating suit to stay alive.

VS.

The "Batman"s Mr. Freeze:

A simple crook who was pursued by the Batman one night after a jewelry heist. Running into a cryogenics lab, he was knocked into one of the freeze chambers and electrocuted as his body was frozen. The experience somehow turned him into a quasi-undead being that constantly generated extreme cold around him; he was forced to wear a special suit (developed by a cryogenicist he coerced into working for him) to prevent him from freezing everything he comes in contact with. He could also (presumably) channel/focus his abilities, however.

I mean....are you kidding me?

The reason I'm using Mr. Freeze is b/c that's the only episode of TB that I was able to tolerate.

I mean i'm all about updating Batman for a newer generation, but THIS show and their 're-imagination' goes too far. It's the Schumacker of animated Batman. :mad:

The only episode you can stand? How it that possible when it's one of the worst episodes of the show?

[LostSon88]

Sorry forgot a few words there :O ...I meant to say that that episode (Mr. Freeze) was the final straw for me and that it was the one that made me officially turn off the show.

:)

[Silver Sable]

The one which he teams up with Firefly?

[LostSon88]

No, the first one that showed his "origin".

[Silver Sable]

Yeah what a messed up background.He's supposed to be a scientist.not a robber :o :mad: :( :confused:

[SHADOWBAT69]

Yeah what a messed up background.He's supposed to be a scientist.not a robber :o :mad: :( :confused:


actually in his first appearance he was both. He was a scientist who was working on a freeze gun, there was an accident and a cryonic solution splashed on him mutating his body. He then came up with the suit to keep his body at the zero temperature and perfected his "ice gun" and turned to a life of crime.

[Silver Sable]

I must have missed the scientist scene then

[ZER0C00L]

actually in his first appearance he was both. He was a scientist who was working on a freeze gun, there was an accident and a cryonic solution splashed on him mutating his body. He then came up with the suit to keep his body at the zero temperature and perfected his "ice gun" and turned to a life of crime.

your talking about the BTAS right?

[R-Taco]

Yeah what a messed up background.He's supposed to be a scientist.not a robber :o :mad: :( :confused:

His background was no more tragic than in TB before 1992, actually...

Still, that episode ('The Big Chill') sucked. And it was the first episode of the show I ever saw. And I still kept watching.

PERSERVERANCE!

[SHADOWBAT69]

your talking about the BTAS right?


im talking about his first appearance in the comics, Batman 121, where he is known as Mr. Zero. The current debate about his animated origins should stem from this. TAS took the liberty of changing his origin by adding the tragedy of his wife, but still kept the scientist aspect. In TB, they kept the crook aspect, but still used the cryonic accident and suit. So both series took parts of his comic origin and changed it a bit. Neither one is historically accurate, so neither one is "definitive" in my book. However i do like the TAS version best.

[Rowen]

I didn't know that, interesting

[King Ruler]

"The Batman" borrows alot from all the previous Batman comics and shows, before he was REALLY this dark and brooding *******. That's why everyone hates the show, because this isn't the Batman that everyone is used to. I have mixed feelings about the show, but I wouldn't say I HATE it.

[DarthSkywalker]

"The Batman" borrows alot from all the previous Batman comics and shows, before he was REALLY this dark and brooding *******. That's why everyone hates the show, because this isn't the Batman that everyone is used to. I have mixed feelings about the show, but I wouldn't say I HATE it.

That and the writing is absolutely terrible, as are the character designs and the repetitve battles. I mean i want to see The Joker or Poison Ivy. Not these anime characters.

[IKnowSomeJudo]

The show is horrible commercialized pap made for limp-wristed emo kiddies. I hope it gets canned soon.

[Mister J]

Amazing, WB will continue to crank out The Batman episodes and DVD's, but leaves us hanging on Justice League Unlimited.:confused:

[Infinity]

Well I certainly started a hell of a discussion thread!! Anyhow, I agree with many people's points about the show. The Mr. Freeze story isn't good at all, it certainly stole the innocence Mr. Freeze had as a villian in Batman: TAS. The Joker isn't that bad, sure Mark Hamil was the greatest as the joker but Joker is still a good villian in The Batman. The episode where he pretended to be Batman was hilarious!
I think the re-make of the Clayface story was one of the best animated Batman episodes ever. That 2 part special, and just about every episode with Clayface is amazing, showcasing Batman's character of misplaced guilt quite well. Finally, Spellbinder, now being a villian, from Asia, where Batman trained. This has got to be leading up to Batman's training as it is a DIRECT connection (perhaps even with Rhas Al Guul as they said they're gonna make that a part of The Batman, his training from the movie). That episode with Spellbinder was really good.
Alan Burnett is the producer of this show. He worked with Bruce Timm to produce Batman: TAS so with him pn board the show has a lot of potential and is living up to it.
Finally, the action and fights are WAY better. Batman is a fiercer fighter and moves like Spiderman with his grapple gun, the way he's supposed to move. This is much improved from the way he moved in Batman: TAS. Fight sequences are important to me. After all, Batman is a warrior. I really like the Batmobile design, better than in Batman Begins, that's just my opinion. Animation is top notch.

[DarthSkywalker]

Well I certainly started a hell of a discussion thread!! Anyhow, I agree with many people's points about the show. The Mr. Freeze story isn't good at all, it certainly stole the innocence Mr. Freeze had as a villian in Batman: TAS. The Joker isn't that bad, sure Mark Hamil was the greatest as the joker but Joker is still a good villian in The Batman. The episode where he pretended to be Batman was hilarious!
I think the re-make of the Clayface story was one of the best animated Batman episodes ever. That 2 part special, and just about every episode with Clayface is amazing, showcasing Batman's character of misplaced guilt quite well. Finally, Spellbinder, now being a villian, from Asia, where Batman trained. This has got to be leading up to Batman's training as it is a DIRECT connection (perhaps even with Rhas Al Guul as they said they're gonna make that a part of The Batman, his training from the movie). That episode with Spellbinder was really good.
Alan Burnett is the producer of this show. He worked with Bruce Timm to produce Batman: TAS so with him pn board the show has a lot of potential and is living up to it.
Finally, the action and fights are WAY better. Batman is a fiercer fighter and moves like Spiderman with his grapple gun, the way he's supposed to move. This is much improved from the way he moved in Batman: TAS. Fight sequences are important to me. After all, Batman is a warrior. I really like the Batmobile design, better than in Batman Begins, that's just my opinion. Animation is top notch.

So a bad Mr. Freeze and Joker that looks like he must get high every single weekend is ok? And you do realize the Clayface storyline is a dumb downed version of the Havery Dent storyline of the comics and Batman animated TV series?

And when did Alan Burnett become Timm? Isn't it pretty obvious who the brain child of the greatness of the past 15 years of animated DC goodness?

And no the action and fights are no where near better. I like them, but since when was Batman suppose to move like a unreal anime character? Is Batman Goku? Yes he is a warrior, but one of human origin. Recently watching World's Finest i don't see how you can even compare the fight scenes. Timm's DCAU nailed them, while The Batman looks like i am watching generic anime 506.

And nothing beats the Tumbler. :O

[King Ruler]

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS. Like I said, I'm not a huge TB fan, but you guys have got to stop comparing it to B:TAS and start looking at it as its own show, like an Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is setting it's own path and rewriting Batman's history, and in truth, "The Batman" kinda follows the Batman mythos a bit more than B:TAS did. I mean, this show is bringing out all the left out villains and characters and plots lines from the "Golden Age" of Batman's comics (I guess you can say that). Sure they dumb it down to make it more kid orientated, but then again, it's made for the kids, so of course they knew some of us older fans of the Timm show would object.

We're just gonna have to learn to get over it.

[DarthSkywalker]

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS. Like I said, I'm not a huge TB fan, but you guys have got to stop comparing it to B:TAS and start looking at it as its own show, like an Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is setting it's own path and rewriting Batman's history, and in truth, "The Batman" kinda follows the Batman mythos a bit more than B:TAS did. I mean, this show is bringing out all the left out villains and characters and plots lines from the "Golden Age" of Batman's comics (I guess you can say that). Sure they dumb it down to make it more kid orientated, but then again, it's made for the kids, so of course they knew some of us older fans of the Timm show would object.

We're just gonna have to learn to get over it.

Actually i only brought up B:TAS when he did. He likes to talk about fight scenes and such, and compare them. I am point out he has lost the point of Batman the character. As to this "Ultimate Batman" crap. That is what Batman Beyond was, except they made it make sense.

And no, "The Batman" does not follow the Batman mythos all that well. Look at the characters, and how they are used. Look at Batman. They miss the mark most of the time.

Batman is special because he is human. He is the superhero that isn't super. This show makes him out to be a freaking anime character, that jumps around like he has springs in his boots.

P.S.- Timm's Batman was made for kids to. He just realized there was more then one audience.

[R-Taco]

Actually i only brought up B:TAS when he did. He likes to talk about fight scenes and such, and compare them. I am point out he has lost the point of Batman the character. As to this "Ultimate Batman" crap. That is what Batman Beyond was, except they made it make sense.

And no, "The Batman" does not follow the Batman mythos all that well. Look at the characters, and how they are used. Look at Batman. They miss the mark most of the time.

Batman is special because he is human. He is the superhero that isn't super. This show makes him out to be a freaking anime character, that jumps around like he has springs in his boots.

P.S.- Timm's Batman was made for kids to. He just realized there was more then one audience.

Batman Beyond isn't "Ultimate Batman" at all...

It's in continuity with BTAS, TNBA, and JLU.

Marvel's "Ultimate" universe has no connection to the older series, and follows often younger versions of the characters with completely redesigned villains. If anything, McGuiness is the DC version of Ben Reily.

[DarthSkywalker]

Batman Beyond isn't "Ultimate Batman" at all...

It's in continuity with BTAS, TNBA, and JLU.

Marvel's "Ultimate" universe has no connection to the older series, and follows often younger versions of the characters with completely redesigned villains. If anything, McGuiness is the DC version of Ben Reily.

True. My point was more that they looked at the more "extreme" side of Batman. The one that makes him almost a superhuman instead of the guy in the suit. They did this with the suit and the "future" placment.

[Red]

I think the show is decent, but its effects (Bat-embargo) is what bothers me the most. The fact that characters that they dont even use cant be used on JLU especially bother me. .

Thats the really reason for me and them rapping the joker, by making him
Jamaican :down

[droogiedroogie2]

It's a pretty good show, not as good as Batman: TAS but so what? The fight scenes are much better. Batman's movements are also much more acrobatic, which I like.Do you mean "the fight scenes are much better" in the sense that they're less realistic and Batman flies? Because if that's how you mean it, then sure, OK.

Also, a lot of fans are younger, and don't remember the broad history of Batman in animation, ALL of which was a little more light-hearted pre-BTAS (ie: SuperFriends and Filmation's Batman)Oh, I remember that history. And I hate it. If I watch the Hanna-Barbera stuff or the Filmation stuff, I watch it because it's funny. Not because it was ever valid as a Batman narrative. Batman and Robin never threw a punch in Challenge of the SuperFriends. Yep, that's got all those "important elements," huh?

Guys, I love The Batman.Who knew?

very dangerous like the gun to make people into playing cards.Only the Matsudaverse could make the Joker just as dangerous and evil as he's supposed to be, but without any of the style, panache, and characterization that made him one of the top five villains in the history of fiction (Milton's Satan, Darth Vader from Star Wars, The Joker, Inspector Javert from Hugo's Les Miserables, and the Grim Reaper from everything.)

Even she is the same character we all love.Who wants to see a ridiculous unintentional parody of Catwoman who is obsessed with telling Batman about what "they" don't think? C'mon, raise your hands, kids! Cuz I know there's no self-respecting adult that wants to!

Bane has been only seen once, but he's still shown to use vemon to make him stronger and a dangerous threat to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. I loved Traction because if you think about it, it was based on Knightfall. Kind of. Only, not.

Man-Bat is basically a huge, deadly vampire bat that while it wasn't shown, sucked blood from several mammals in its first appearence. His design is frightening.Fine. If they would have found a way to fcck up Man-Bat, I would have exploded. Ruining Man-Bat is like ruining toast.

Was anyone glad that Firefly wasn't a villian in degree like Penguin but a work for hire? I was.In the same way I'm glad to see the basic premise of ANY character thrown out the window in favor of a bull**** cliche. That's why I just love the Silver Age interpretations of Batman, and the SuperFriends version of the JLA.

Clayface was tragic and more better than his BTAS design. Nothing wrong there.Not just better. MORE better.

And the Riddler, he was creepy.Yeah, I loved his most recent album, the one with Mobscene. Dude, that was such a return to form--Oh, that was a different guy?

Get it?"No, you don't got it. Get it?"--Ben Stiller playing Tom Cruise on an SNL Celebrity Jeopardy skit.

(pauses to reflect)...man, I'm glad this thread happened. So nice to see that there are still people who won't just accept whatever incarnation of Batman gets thrown at them.

I would also like to say that BTAS's version of Penguin sucked too. "Aviary of doom," anybody? His voice-actor sucked. The way the Penguin should be is the way he was in City of Crime. Tchyea.

But, these guys working on TB like the darker version of Batman. There are not enough letters in the phrase "What the fcck are you talking about?" to adequately express the "What the fcck are you talking about"ness of the way I feel. And no way for me to possibly express, in written form, the magnitude of my bitter laugh that your post sent me into. Darker version? To paraphrase TB's Catwoman...That's not what WE think...

i dont understand Why they wouldnt just continue the original Batman the Animated Series instead of this crap...What, you don't like Batgirl in a skirt?

That Batman doesn't shop for guitars, call on Alfred for enchiladas, etc.Surely you kid. Not even Matsuda could sink that low...right? Right? Guys...?

The GK designs are great, but this really seems to show how ugly some of the BTAS designs were, especially Franken-Robin (just my opinion).Yeah, Catwoman, Penguin, and the Riddler were the only ones that looked worse in GK. The rest all improved.

I mean i'm all about updating Batman for a newer generation, but THIS show and their 're-imagination' goes too far.Between this and All-Star Batman, I bet it's a scary time to be a new Bat-fan.

In the beginning Freeze was known as Mr. Zero, who was just another crook with a gimmick. (i.e. him needing to use the suit) and he did just do crimes.And that was lame.

im talking about his first appearance in the comics, Batman 121, where he is known as Mr. Zero. The current debate about his animated origins should stem from this. TAS took the liberty of changing his origin by adding the tragedy of his wife, but still kept the scientist aspect. In TB, they kept the crook aspect, but still used the cryonic accident and suit. So both series took parts of his comic origin and changed it a bit. Neither one is historically accurate, so neither one is "definitive" in my book. However i do like the TAS version best.I was aware of that history. TB's Freeze, like the original Mr. Zero, is still lame-ass.

Amazing, WB will continue to crank out The Batman episodes and DVD's, but leaves us hanging on Justice League Unlimited.No, JLU is straight cancelled.

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS.Maybe because they claim to both be animated TV shows about Batman! Huh! What a thought! But no, I'm really just comparing it to something that I would want to watch. And it's not anything close to something that I would want to watch. That's why I don't.

[roach]

That's the problem with you "The Batman" haters: You guys keep comparing it to B:TAS. Like I said, I'm not a huge TB fan, but you guys have got to stop comparing it to B:TAS and start looking at it as its own show, like an Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is setting it's own path and rewriting Batman's history, and in truth, "The Batman" kinda follows the Batman mythos a bit more than B:TAS did. I mean, this show is bringing out all the left out villains and characters and plots lines from the "Golden Age" of Batman's comics (I guess you can say that). Sure they dumb it down to make it more kid orientated, but then again, it's made for the kids, so of course they knew some of us older fans of the Timm show would object.

We're just gonna have to learn to get over it.


If you go to a resturant and order a steak and it is the best steak you ever had....then you go back and the steak isnt as goodas you had it last time...are you not allowed to compare it???? Or was the chef finding his own path?????
This show has no depth to it. It's purpose is to sell action figures. This is the Joel Schumacher Batman. BTAS was a groundbreaking series that proved that cartoons could be successful and not be aimed at kids. The producers of The Batman didnt learn from BTAS

[SHADOWBAT69]

Oh, I remember that history. And I hate it. If I watch the Hanna-Barbera stuff or the Filmation stuff, I watch it because it's funny. Not because it was ever valid as a Batman narrative. Batman and Robin never threw a punch in Challenge of the SuperFriends. Yep, that's got all those "important elements," huh?

Im glad to hear that violence in cartoons is an "important element" to you. Who says our society isnt civilized? When i was a kid watching those cartoons i didnt care. Why? I was a KID watching CARTOONS.




Who wants to see a ridiculous unintentional parody of Catwoman who is obsessed with telling Batman about what "they" don't think? C'mon, raise your hands, kids! Cuz I know there's no self-respecting adult that wants to!

Who exactly are "they" that you are referring to? and what is such a parody about TB's Catwoman? The TB team has elements of both her thief and animal activist sides. So whats the problem with this character to you?



Not just better. MORE better.

There really isnt a need to be insulting to anyone. Everbody makes mistakes when typing.

Yeah, I loved his most recent album, the one with Mobscene. Dude, that was such a return to form--Oh, that was a different guy?

I didnt know there was a law that said the designs for characters must be followed exactly the same in each rendition. I remember in the comics how even the Joker had short hair, a ponytail, even a shaved head. I also remember how Riddler had a receeding (sp?) hairline, but now he has a full head of hair. My point is, who cares if a cartoon character resembles someone? The basic elements are still there.



(pauses to reflect)...man, I'm glad this thread happened. So nice to see that there are still people who won't just accept whatever incarnation of Batman gets thrown at them.

Yeh, itb be an interesting world if everyone agreed on everything and no one had different tastes or opinions.

I would also like to say that BTAS's version of Penguin sucked too. "Aviary of doom," anybody? His voice-actor sucked. The way the Penguin should be is the way he was in City of Crime. Tchyea.

See? This is YOUR opinion.



What, you don't like Batgirl in a skirt?

Again, is there some law on design?

Surely you kid. Not even Matsuda could sink that low...right? Right? Guys...?

Hm, Bruce does have hobbies. So in the TB its guitars. So? Heaven forbid if Bruce wants some Mexican food. This is just a stupid argument, imo.

Yeah, Catwoman, Penguin, and the Riddler were the only ones that looked worse in GK. The rest all improved.

Im tired of touching on the whole design thing.

Between this and All-Star Batman, I bet it's a scary time to be a new Bat-fan.

Im not gonna touch the All-Star thing. I hate how Miller writes Batman, but thats a discussion for another thread.:p

And that was lame.

I was aware of that history. TB's Freeze, like the original Mr. Zero, is still lame-ass.

Maybe. However, when debating the "origins" used in TB it is a very important fact. You cant fault the writing team when they used the original source material.


Maybe because they claim to both be animated TV shows about Batman! Huh! What a thought! But no, I'm really just comparing it to something that I would want to watch. And it's not anything close to something that I would want to watch. That's why I don't.

They dont "claim" to be, they are. And why not compare them to the Filmation and Hanna-Barbara stuff too? They are animated incarnations. And know what? They are all different. Just like how everyones opinion on Batman is different. Just like thru the entire history of Batman there are different representations of the character. This will continue. Some will like certain versions, some will not.

For someone who doesnt watch the show tho, you sure have some strong opinions and knowledge about it.

[SHADOWBAT69]

If you go to a resturant and order a steak and it is the best steak you ever had....then you go back and the steak isnt as goodas you had it last time...are you not allowed to compare it???? Or was the chef finding his own path?????
This show has no depth to it. It's purpose is to sell action figures. This is the Joel Schumacher Batman. BTAS was a groundbreaking series that proved that cartoons could be successful and not be aimed at kids. The producers of The Batman didnt learn from BTAS


Maybe there is a different chef. Kind of how there is a different creative team behind this animated show.

[Warhammer]

This thread is pretty good.
Bottom line for me: The Batman isn't in the same calibur as Batman:TAS, Batman:GK, Superman, or Justice League.

Re-imagination for this time's audience sucks. It has gone way to far.

I am not saying i hate The Batman, but we can't ignore it.
We know what a Batman cartoon can truly be, so people shouldn't be mad at ''The Batman Haters''. I know how much better The Batman could possibly be. But................The Batman, again, isn't 100% crap, but it isn't that good.

I quit watching it, but watch it occasionally when i wake up that early.
Some of the aspects of the show is OK, like Clayface, and The Riddler (I like it.) The Joker should be better.

The Batman for me is just too ''out there'' for me to 100% enjoy, but the fight scenes are nice and there is nothing really wrong with Batman himself.

:)

[droogiedroogie2]

Im glad to hear that violence in cartoons is an "important element" to you. Who says our society isnt civilized? When i was a kid watching those cartoons i didnt care. Why? I was a KID watching CARTOONS. What a radical, crazy idea that Batman would get in fights. You're blowing my mind here. But seriously, (realistic) martial arts and cool detective work, both absent from the ancient shows and from The Batman, but both present in BTAS, are "important elements" of the Batman character. Without those, what makes him cool? What makes him any different from, say Green Arrow, or Vigilante?

Who exactly are "they" that you are referring to? and what is such a parody about TB's Catwoman? The TB team has elements of both her thief and animal activist sides. So whats the problem with this character to you?"They" varied with whatever scene she was in, but if you watch the first CW episode, all she can ever say is "That's not what THEY think," as if Batman was retarded and couldn't tell what the people shooting at him thought of him. And even if TB's CW character does have elements of her thief and activist sides, it also has elements of an immature, childish annoyance. And that's not what makes Catwoman cool.

There really isnt a need to be insulting to anyone. Everbody makes mistakes when typing.There really isn't a need to take a mild grammatical jab so seriously. "Everbody" else does it without getting their head bitten off.

I didnt know there was a law that said the designs for characters must be followed exactly the same in each rendition. I remember in the comics how even the Joker had short hair, a ponytail, even a shaved head. I also remember how Riddler had a receeding (sp?) hairline, but now he has a full head of hair. My point is, who cares if a cartoon character resembles someone? The basic elements are still there.Changing hairstyles isn't quite the same thing as going from smooth, suave showman to Manson backup dancer, now is it? Plus, when character design is so clearly designed to reflect character (as it always is with the Riddler) it's important to take design into account. Riddler had a receding hairline and a flaccid mustache when he was going through a real "not-that-cool-anymore" phase. But in Hush he was all style again, even rocking the insolent little domino mask. And then you have The Batman, and while you watch a Riddler episode you're always expecting the dude to tell you what sweet dreams are made of, or about how he doesn't like the drugs but the drugs like him.

Yeh, itb be an interesting world if everyone agreed on everything and no one had different tastes or opinions. Not really. Be kind of boring.


See? This is YOUR opinion.I know. I was there when I typed it.

Again, is there some law on design?You try wearing a skirt while being active. There's a reason girls don't wear skirts when playing sports.

Hm, Bruce does have hobbies. So in the TB its guitars. So? Heaven forbid if Bruce wants some Mexican food. This is just a stupid argument, imo.Bruce Wayne is the last scion of the greatest family in Gotham City. He carries the legacy on with dignity and respect...except when he rocks out in his poseur-punk band. And of course, when Batman's out patrollin', fightin' crime, he works up a mighty big appetite. None of us really need to see him ordering his Mexican food, it doesn't strengthen the story or the characterization...but Matsuda's not gonna let that get in the way of a crappy episode!

Maybe. However, when debating the "origins" used in TB it is a very important fact. You cant fault the writing team when they used the original source material.Yes. You can. They had a choice of origins, and they chose the worst one, whether or not it was the original. They could also have chosen the original interpretation of Batman, which had the dude snapping people's necks, shooting people in their sleep, and knocking people off of catwalks to their death.

They dont "claim" to be, they are. And why not compare them to the Filmation and Hanna-Barbara stuff too? They are animated incarnations. And know what? They are all different. Just like how everyones opinion on Batman is different. Just like thru the entire history of Batman there are different representations of the character. This will continue. Some will like certain versions, some will not. For someone who doesnt watch the show tho, you sure have some strong opinions and knowledge about it.I don't watch it regularly. If I'm surfing and it infects my TV, I check to see if it got any better. It never does. And yes, there are different interpretations of Batman, but they fall into a few categories. Golden Age Bats, who's so dark he kills. Doesn't really work. Makes the character go too far. Few people accept that as the definitive Batman, regardless of it being the first one. Silver Age Bats, which saw Batman become so ludicrous and self-parodying that it ruined the reputation of all comic books forever. Pretty much regarded as funny and nostalgic, but not definitive. We have Modern Age Batman, basically what most people have come to accept as Batman, the Batman seen in 1990s comics, Burtman, BTAS, and BB. Those are the basic categories. The Batman definitely falls into the Silver Age category, even though it's a new show.

Maybe there is a different chef. Kind of how there is a different creative team behind this animated show.Yeah, but this chef sucks at making steak. Maybe he'd be good at making something else. Who knows, maybe he makes a mean lasagna, or perhaps a great anime show. But steak is not lasagna, and Batman is not anime. And if he tries to put cheese and noodles on my steak, I'm gonna let him know, and I'm not gonna like that steak very much. I'll taste it. But it's not gonna taste right, and I'll let the dude know. And I will beg the restaurant to get the other chef back. He made a much better steak.

[newwaveboy87]

1. some the redesigns don't work. Mr Freeze looks like Ghost Rider after running into Iceman. Joker looks like Blanca. Bane looks like a red Hulk with a bondage fetish. and Batgirl looks too much like the 60s TV show version.

2. some storylines are great, but for the most part the episodes are eye roll inducingly campy. it can't seem to catch the correct tone either. for every darker, more mature and adult episode there's three that play like 30 minute toy commercials. seriously...Batman wore a white suit with ice skates!? :eek:

3. some of the voice cast is sub-par. Spongebob as Penguin? Joker sounds too deep, which isn't too great for the character in my opinion. sure he's supposed to be menacing, but he's also a freaking clown! Catwoman has a great voice, pity her character is underused and not very appealing.

[Silver Sable]

Who's Blanca?

[newwaveboy87]

from Street Figher.

[Silver Sable]

Ahhhhh

[newwaveboy87]

can't you see it though? Joker looks like Blanca in a clown outfit.

[Silver Sable]

I'm not familiar with SF :o

[newwaveboy87]

L A M E!

here's Blanca:
http://www.blister.jp/images-item-page/page-2807.jpg

[Silver Sable]

Thanks

[newwaveboy87]

now imagine him white, with green hair (which is possible in the game actually) and in a clown suit.

it's Joker!
:eek:

[Silver Sable]

Ok I get your point lol

[I AM THE NIGHT]

scary how true that is

[ZER0C00L]

now imagine him white, with green hair (which is possible in the game actually) and in a clown suit.

it's Joker!
:eek:

Now i know why he looked to familure:down

[White_Howling]

dman i just noticed that now.. the way he hops around and and turns into a ball.. soo blanka

[newwaveboy87]

if he does something electrical one of these days...well....:(

[Darth Rockwell]

Okay I was thinking about his for a while and it frustrates me to no end. People talk about how bad The Batman is but have good things to say about the Adam West show. I don’t understand it. I mean both are a goofy but they are both good shows in their own right. So what if The Batman isn’t Batman the animated series. It’s still a valid Batman show regardless of if it’s what you think a Batman show should be. That is all I have to say I just had to get it off my chest.

[KingOfDreams]

The animation blows. Very flat. Very geometric.

[Silver Sable]

I'm mostly pissed off of the character designs and some of their the origins like Mr.Freeze and Clayface

[Mister J]

Okay I was thinking about his for a while and it frustrates me to no end. People talk about how bad The Batman is but have good things to say about the Adam West show. I don’t understand it. I mean both are a goofy but they are both good shows in their own right. So what if The Batman isn’t Batman the animated series. It’s still a valid Batman show regardless of if it’s what you think a Batman show should be. That is all I have to say I just had to get it off my chest.

I think you said it yourself. The Adam West show was meant to be goofy and taken lightly. The Batman, for all intents and purposes, is meant to be on the level, yet it still comes off as...less than what it should. People can't help but to compare it to B:TAS. Besides, The Batman's grand re-imagining of villains doesn't help its cause.

[GyLocke]

I finally watched an episode of The Batman (and of Loonatics as well.)
My thoughts are:

BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAA!! !!!

Those poor kids. They won't have a single working braincell left when they reach 16.

Damn, I never thought it could happen but a freaking cartoon insulted me.

The Batman is no longer here to fight crime. He's here to give children seizures.
I have to invent some drinking game for TB right now! (BTW kids try watch Batman and Robin, and drink at every ice of flower pun at the dialugue. You will give up. No man can survive that.)

[Darthphere]

Okay I was thinking about his for a while and it frustrates me to no end. People talk about how bad The Batman is but have good things to say about the Adam West show. I don’t understand it. I mean both are a goofy but they are both good shows in their own right. So what if The Batman isn’t Batman the animated series. It’s still a valid Batman show regardless of if it’s what you think a Batman show should be. That is all I have to say I just had to get it off my chest.


Thats like saying I hate how people dont like Superfriends and love JLU. The difference being this.

Adam West Batman-60's. The Batman-2005-06. Thats all that needs to be said.

[TheVileOne]

For one thing, Romano isn't a fraction as good as Batman as Kevin Konroy is.

[Mister J]

For one thing, Romano isn't a fraction as good as Batman as Kevin Konroy is.

No, he's a fraction as good...about 1/3.

Ok, that may be harsh, but Conroy goes in the Voice Actor Hall of Fame.

[Mister J]

Everybody can't hate it. It won the Annie Award for Best New Animated Show in 2004. Though, I'm not entirely sure why. it's got some redeeming qualities.

[hunter_hippie]

I'm mostly pissed off of the character designs and some of their the origins like Mr.Freeze and Clayface

I'm going to guess that you're in your early 20's and grew up watching BTAS, right?

[Silver Sable]

LOL you looked at my profile right? :p ;)

[hunter_hippie]

LOL you looked at my profile right? :p ;)

Actually, no. That was just a guess based on this statement:

Originally Posted by Silver Sable
I'm mostly pissed off of the character designs and some of their the origins like Mr.Freeze and Clayface

[Silver Sable]

Oh :(

[droogiedroogie2]

I'm going to guess that you're in your early 20's and grew up watching BTAS, right?I'm going to guess that you're in your early teens and are growing up listening to Silverstein, believing that it's all part of your plan to radically and revolutionarily change everything, though you're not quite sure how. You just know you're going to change everything, for better or worse--but how could change be bad? Change is always automatically good! Yes, someday you're going to change the world...but for now, you'll accept a radical departure from established Batman traditions, a latte, and your banker dad's money.

[Silver Sable]

Actually I'm 20.Gonna be 21 in June

[hunter_hippie]

I'm going to guess that you're in your early teens and are growing up listening to Silverstein, believing that it's all part of your plan to radically and revolutionarily change everything, though you're not quite sure how. You just know you're going to change everything, for better or worse--but how could change be bad? Change is always automatically good! Yes, someday you're going to change the world...but for now, you'll accept a radical departure from established Batman traditions, a latte, and your banker dad's money.

Not even close.

Who's Silverstein? Like Mel Silverstein? http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:MaHw6JJeDf8J:www.usc.edu/hsc/info/pr/1vol7/708/cancer.html+mel+silverstein&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

[Neto Magnus]

The 60s Batman was waaaaaaay better than this show.

I feel so sorry for kids today who have to grow up watching these cartoons nowadays.

[hippie_hunter]

The 60s Batman was waaaaaaay better than this show.

I feel so sorry for kids today who have to grow up watching these cartoons nowadays.

The two aren't even comparable. The 60's Batman was directly based off the comics of that era. Extreme camp. In today's standards, many have problems accepting that Batman and other shows such as the Superfriends (Personally, the Aquaman fanboy in me hates it with a passion for how they treated him and the reputation they gave him). People don't like the Batman because Batman in the show just doesn't match up with the dark Batman in the DCAU and the comics.

[Binker]

Here is the real reason why people hate The Batman:

They don't hate it.

They like it in dark episodes like in Strange Minds for example or the DTV The Batman vs. Dracula.

They think they hate it because its "not like BTAS and the people who are making it are destroying it" and that ain't true. TB is meant to override the greatness that is BTAS and the people involve in TB not only love the show and are fans of it, but some worked on it (even TNBA).

The truth is: this show has a huge shadow on it: BTAS. Fans of BTAS think WB threw away BTAS and all its brillance that came from it, and that ain't the case. Shows like the rest of the DCAU (which TB is a DCAU) and animated realism from BTAS went into shows like today like X-Men: Evolution. Remember the cartoons before BTAS? How old and "grainy" they were, would you want that?

And BTAS nor the whole Timmverse aren't gone, you have those DVDs and they are remembered, like I said on how its animation inspired every show that came after it.

The truth is maybe that those TB-haters can't even let go or can't see that TB not only isn't , it doesn't have to be BTAS all over again. You can maybe say that there's nothing wrong except in their heads.

Since it debut the show has been getting mixed reviews, but we all know the truth: TB has the huge shadow of BTAS. And that's why people SAY they hate it. Some probably want TB to be like BTAS, and it doesn't have to be. Other are probably afraid that TB is replacing BTAS, and that ain't the case.

And people might think TB won't be dark to suit those fans, but except for the DTV which was dark, since its debut the show has become dark and maturing episode by episode.

A BTAS fan love this and so does me. Others too.

There is nothing wrong with this show. Just watch it and say to yourself: "It AIN'T replacing BTAS, it doesn't HAVE to be like BTAS, IT'S ITS OWN SHOW."

[hippie_hunter]

Here is the real reason why people hate The Batman:

They don't hate it.

They like it in dark episodes like in Strange Minds for example or the DTV The Batman vs. Dracula.

If more episodes were done like TBvD, then a hell of a lot more people would like the Batman.

They think they hate it because its "not like BTAS and the people who are making it are destroying it" and that ain't true. TB is meant to override the greatness that is BTAS and the people involve in TB not only love the show and are fans of it, but some worked on it (even TNBA).

The truth is: this show has a huge shadow on it: BTAS. Fans of BTAS think WB threw away BTAS and all its brillance that came from it, and that ain't the case. Shows like the rest of the DCAU (which TB is a DCAU) and animated realism from BTAS went into shows like today like X-Men: Evolution. Remember the cartoons before BTAS? How old and "grainy" they were, would you want that?

And BTAS nor the whole Timmverse aren't gone, you have those DVDs and they are remembered, like I said on how its animation inspired every show that came after it.

The truth is maybe that those TB-haters can't even let go or can't see that TB not only isn't , it doesn't have to be BTAS all over again. You can maybe say that there's nothing wrong except in their heads.

Since it debut the show has been getting mixed reviews, but we all know the truth: TB has the huge shadow of BTAS. And that's why people SAY they hate it. Some probably want TB to be like BTAS, and it doesn't have to be. Other are probably afraid that TB is replacing BTAS, and that ain't the case.

And people might think TB won't be dark to suit those fans, but except for the DTV which was dark, since its debut the show has become dark and maturing episode by episode.

A BTAS fan love this and so does me. Others too.

There is nothing wrong with this show. Just watch it and say to yourself: "It AIN'T replacing BTAS, it doesn't HAVE to be like BTAS, IT'S ITS OWN SHOW."
Nope, its basically because the show isn't dark enough, the writing is cringeworthy at times, most of the voice acting sucks, and bastardized a few characters such as Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Man-Bat, and others.

[Binker]

Clayface was tragic, Mr. Freeze was a villian which HE IS in the comics, Man-Bat is a vampire bat and LOOKS like a bat unlike the BTAS version.

TB is slightly dark by some episodes but the censors are in the way of showing its true protential as seen in TBvD. But at least we see.....half or even most of darkness in this show. Remember Strange Minds? Skulls and a story taken from "The Cell". And recently in "The Apprentice", Joker is starting to become dark. I mean he threatened to acid a kid, A KID!

Look, why are we fighting? TB is a good show.

[Darthphere]

But it isnt, thats the point.

[Binker]

Jeez, it is a good show.

Even BTAS fans watch it and like it.

[Darthphere]

Your opinion is its a good show. My opinion is that it sucks hard. Where are these BTAS fans that like The Batman as well? Either way that doesnt make the show good, it just means theyve submitted themselves to lower standards.

[Binker]

Look; no matter what you guys say, this show still is becoming more than it started back in Sept. 2004. Its becoming dark, the stories are good, even the DTV was awesome. And the people behind it are fans of the Dark Knight and even some worked on TNBA.

Do you know who gave Matsuda the idea of having Barbara Gordon and Ivy friends? Bruce Timm. Even Matsuda wants to treat Two Face right and wanted to get rid of the one-liners of before.

These people are as good as Timm and co.

IT'S HERE TO STAY, DEAL WITH IT.

[Katsuro]

Man, I hate how everytime I express my intense hatred of this show, people accuse me of comparing it to BTAS or being a BTAS fanboy or something like that. My hatred of this show is in no way related to BTAS. See, some of you may forget that The Batman is actually based on a widely successful comic book character. I compare The Batman to the comics, and that's why I hate it. The comic books were awesome (at least, the comics from a certain era are awesome), and this show is terrible. I cringe every time I see this shows "Batman" move lightning speed to the other side of a villain. This isn't The Flash or Superman!! He has no superpowers! They are destorying the very concept of Batman by making him this way. And of course, what kind of Batman lets his sidekick get away with endangering his own life. Batman doens't take that crap. You screw up on the job, you're fired. He's fired many sidekicks for that crap. Yet in this show, it goes by without mention.

Then of course there's the hideous art and character designs. The Joker looks retarded and cant even stand upright. Not to mention he doesn't wear shoes. And his plans are terribly lame. I saw one episode where he wanted to change a statues face to look like him. Wtf?!? OMG!! The Joker screwed up our statue!! What will we do?!? So many lives lost!! And if i'm not mistake (its been a while since i saw that episode) his attempt to drive a policeman crazy in this show was to hypnotize him or some crap. Whereas in the comics, he shoots Gordons daughter then shows him pictures of her naked and dying while midgets beat him on a roller coaster. And yeah, i get that it's a kids cartoon and they cant do all that stuff, which is exactly why this show should not exist.

[Darthphere]

Look; no matter what you guys say, this show still is becoming more than it started back in Sept. 2004. Its becoming dark, the stories are good, even the DTV was awesome. And the people behind it are fans of the Dark Knight and even some worked on TNBA.

Do you know who gave Matsuda the idea of having Barbara Gordon and Ivy friends? Bruce Timm. Even Matsuda wants to treat Two Face right and wanted to get rid of the one-liners of before.

These people are as good as Timm and co.

IT'S HERE TO STAY, DEAL WITH IT.


This whole post is laughable. You saying the team behind The Batman is as good as the crew behind BTAS is appaling. BTAS won countless awards including Emmy's and was praised critically. The Batman has not and probably will never reach the high level quality and production values of BTAS. Its fine that you accept a show with horrible animation and character designs. Dumb downed characters and little to no plot episdoe after episode but dont expect everyone to like it. Id rather watch high quality animation.

[Darthphere]

This whole post is laughable. You saying the team behind The Batman is as good as the crew behind BTAS is appaling. BTAS won countless awards including Emmy's and was praised critically. The Batman has not and probably will never reach the high level quality and production values of BTAS. Its fine that you accept a show with horrible animation and character designs. Dumb downed characters and little to no plot episdoe after episode but dont expect everyone to like it. Id rather watch high quality animation.

[Silver Sable]

Jeez, it is a good show.

Even BTAS fans watch it and like it.

If it was such a good show them how come a lot of people are complaining about it? :confused:

[Binker]

Man, I hate how everytime I express my intense hatred of this show, people accuse me of comparing it to BTAS or being a BTAS fanboy or something like that. My hatred of this show is in no way related to BTAS. See, some of you may forget that The Batman is actually based on a widely successful comic book character. I compare The Batman to the comics, and that's why I hate it. The comic books were awesome (at least, the comics from a certain era are awesome), and this show is terrible. I cringe every time I see this shows "Batman" move lightning speed to the other side of a villain. This isn't The Flash or Superman!! He has no superpowers! They are destorying the very concept of Batman by making him this way. And of course, what kind of Batman lets his sidekick get away with endangering his own life. Batman doens't take that crap. You screw up on the job, you're fired. He's fired many sidekicks for that crap. Yet in this show, it goes by without mention.

Then of course there's the hideous art and character designs. The Joker looks retarded and cant even stand upright. Not to mention he doesn't wear shoes. And his plans are terribly lame. I saw one episode where he wanted to change a statues face to look like him. Wtf?!? OMG!! The Joker screwed up our statue!! What will we do?!? So many lives lost!! And if i'm not mistake (its been a while since i saw that episode) his attempt to drive a policeman crazy in this show was to hypnotize him or some crap. Whereas in the comics, he shoots Gordons daughter then shows him pictures of her naked and dying while midgets beat him on a roller coaster. And yeah, i get that it's a kids cartoon and they cant do all that stuff, which is exactly why this show should not exist.

I heard somewhere that someone compared TB to manga. That would explain those moves he makes. Plus, I read Batman: Child of Dreams, a Batman manga and just what? He works for a manga comic.

I would normally say censors is why we're not seeing anythign TAT dark from the comics. But your examples of Joker is only from Season One, the season which while it was difficult for people to start on this new show, it had problems. Joker since then has changed.

If you are saying 100% of Joker in TB isn't what Joker is then what he is in the show as a crazed maniac isn't right then.

This whole post is laughable. You saying the team behind The Batman is as good as the crew behind BTAS is appaling. BTAS won countless awards including Emmy's and was praised critically. The Batman has not and probably will never reach the high level quality and production values of BTAS. Its fine that you accept a show with horrible animation and character designs. Dumb downed characters and little to no plot episdoe after episode but dont expect everyone to like it. Id rather watch high quality animation.

Annie AwardsYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)2006NominatedAnnieBest Animated Television Production

Best Music in an Animated Television Production
Thomas Chase
For episode "The Laughing Bat".

Best Home Entertainment Production
The Batman vs. Dracula

Daytime Emmy AwardsYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)2006NominatedDaytime EmmyOutstanding Special Class Animated Program
Outstanding Achievement in Sound Editing - Live Action and Animation
2005WonDaytime EmmyOutstanding Achievement in Sound Editing - Live Action and Animation
Thomas Syslo (supervising sound editor)
Timothy Borquez (supervising sound editor)
Keith Dickens (sound editor)
Jeff Hutchins (sound editor)
Doug Andorka (sound editor)
Eric Freeman (sound editor)
Daisuke Sawa (sound editor)
Roy Braverman (sound editor)
Mark Howlett (sound editor)
Mark Keatts (dialogue editor)
Mark Keefer (dialogue editor)
Mike Garcia (dialogue editor)

Tied with "Xiaolin Showdown."
2005NominatedDaytime EmmyOutstanding Achievement in Music Direction and Composition
Thomas Chase (composer)

Outstanding Performer in an Animated Program
Kevin Michael Richardson

Outstanding Special Class Animated Program
Sander Schwartz (executive producer)
Alan Burnett (executive producer)
Duane Capizzi (supervising producer)
Michael Goguen (supervising producer)
Jeff Matsuda (producer)
Linda M. Steiner (producer)
Glen Murakami (producer)
Adam Beechen (writer)
Steven Melching (writer)
Seung Eun Kim (director)
Brandon Vietti (director)
Sam Liu (director)
Ginny McSwain (director)

Motion Picture Sound Editors, USAYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)2005NominatedGolden Reel AwardBest Sound Editing in Television Animation
Thomas Syslo (supervising sound editor)
Timothy Borquez (supervising sound editor)
Mark Keatts (supervising dialogue editor)
Roy Braverman (sound editor)
Jeff Hutchins (sound editor)
Keith Dickens (sound editor)
Eric Freeman (sound editor)
Doug Andorka (sound editor)
Mark Keefer (dialogue editor)
Michael Garcia (adr editor)
Daisuke Sawa (foley editor)
For episode "The Big Chill".

Cinema Audio Society, USAYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)
2006NominatedC.A.S. AwardOutstanding Achievement in Sound Mixing for DVD Original Programming
The Batman vs. Dracula


You were saying...

If it was such a good show them how come a lot of people are complaining about it?

Well let me ask this; what do you think of these episodes: Rubberface of Comedy, Clayface of Tragedy, Riddled, Meltdown, Strange Minds, The Laughing Bat, Night and the City, Batgirl Begins (both parts), Fistful of Felt, Fluers du Mal, The Apprentice, and TBvD?

[Silver Sable]

Well let me ask this; what do you think of these episodes: Rubberface of Comedy, Clayface of Tragedy, Riddled, Meltdown, Strange Minds, The Laughing Bat, Night and the City, Batgirl Begins (both parts), Fistful of Felt, Fluers du Mal, The Apprentice, and TBvD?

I didn't see all of those episodes yet

[Binker]

Then I would guess you don't have an opinion of good or bad for this show then.

[Silver Sable]

Well just b/c I haven't seen all of the episodes doesn't mean I have an opinion on it.Look, the show isn't horrible but it is disappointing and weird

[Binker]

How is it disappointing and weird?

I don't know but maybe the reasons behind it being disappointing is because you not seeing many episodes.

[Darthphere]

I heard somewhere that someone compared TB to manga. That would explain those moves he makes. Plus, I read Batman: Child of Dreams, a Batman manga and just what? He works for a manga comic.

I would normally say censors is why we're not seeing anythign TAT dark from the comics. But your examples of Joker is only from Season One, the season which while it was difficult for people to start on this new show, it had problems. Joker since then has changed.

If you are saying 100% of Joker in TB isn't what Joker is then what he is in the show as a crazed maniac isn't right then.



Annie AwardsYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)2006NominatedAnnieBest Animated Television Production

Best Music in an Animated Television Production
Thomas Chase
For episode "The Laughing Bat".

Best Home Entertainment Production
The Batman vs. Dracula

Daytime Emmy AwardsYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)2006NominatedDaytime EmmyOutstanding Special Class Animated Program
Outstanding Achievement in Sound Editing - Live Action and Animation
2005WonDaytime EmmyOutstanding Achievement in Sound Editing - Live Action and Animation
Thomas Syslo (supervising sound editor)
Timothy Borquez (supervising sound editor)
Keith Dickens (sound editor)
Jeff Hutchins (sound editor)
Doug Andorka (sound editor)
Eric Freeman (sound editor)
Daisuke Sawa (sound editor)
Roy Braverman (sound editor)
Mark Howlett (sound editor)
Mark Keatts (dialogue editor)
Mark Keefer (dialogue editor)
Mike Garcia (dialogue editor)

Tied with "Xiaolin Showdown."
2005NominatedDaytime EmmyOutstanding Achievement in Music Direction and Composition
Thomas Chase (composer)

Outstanding Performer in an Animated Program
Kevin Michael Richardson

Outstanding Special Class Animated Program
Sander Schwartz (executive producer)
Alan Burnett (executive producer)
Duane Capizzi (supervising producer)
Michael Goguen (supervising producer)
Jeff Matsuda (producer)
Linda M. Steiner (producer)
Glen Murakami (producer)
Adam Beechen (writer)
Steven Melching (writer)
Seung Eun Kim (director)
Brandon Vietti (director)
Sam Liu (director)
Ginny McSwain (director)

Motion Picture Sound Editors, USAYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)2005NominatedGolden Reel AwardBest Sound Editing in Television Animation
Thomas Syslo (supervising sound editor)
Timothy Borquez (supervising sound editor)
Mark Keatts (supervising dialogue editor)
Roy Braverman (sound editor)
Jeff Hutchins (sound editor)
Keith Dickens (sound editor)
Eric Freeman (sound editor)
Doug Andorka (sound editor)
Mark Keefer (dialogue editor)
Michael Garcia (adr editor)
Daisuke Sawa (foley editor)
For episode "The Big Chill".

Cinema Audio Society, USAYearResultAwardCategory/Recipient(s)
2006NominatedC.A.S. AwardOutstanding Achievement in Sound Mixing for DVD Original Programming
The Batman vs. Dracula


You were saying...



Well let me ask this; what do you think of these episodes: Rubberface of Comedy, Clayface of Tragedy, Riddled, Meltdown, Strange Minds, The Laughing Bat, Night and the City, Batgirl Begins (both parts), Fistful of Felt, Fluers du Mal, The Apprentice, and TBvD?



It hasnt won anything, these are all nominations. Seriously im sorry you wasted your time compiling this list.

[Silver Sable]

How is it disappointing and weird?

I don't know but maybe the reasons behind it being disappointing is because you not seeing many episodes.

Let's see.Joker's appearance is very odd,Clayface's origin was messed up,Catwoman looks more like a mouse then a cat,and Riddler looks like a gothic freak.Anything else? lol

[Darthphere]

Its no use SS, anything you say he'll just argue The Batman is god's gift to animation.

[Silver Sable]

Right :o :rolleyes: :p

[Binker]

It hasnt won anything, these are all nominations. Seriously im sorry you wasted your time compiling this list.

It doesn't matter if it won or not, the fact it was nominationed means something. If it SUCKED so horrible it wouldn't be on the damn list. It did win a daytime emmy for sound though.

Let's see.Joker's appearance is very odd,Clayface's origin was messed up,Catwoman looks more like a mouse then a cat,and Riddler looks like a gothic freak.Anything else? lol

I think of Joker's appearence similar to how he looked in Arkham Asylum. Clayface's origin was messed up? Ethan is a new character for the show and many people have been clayface over the eyars in the comics, not just one. For Catwoman, her costume is a cross between the '60s (entire suit) and modern (the goggles). I can't explain the ears but I've seen bat ears that her ears don't look like them.

Riddler looks like that because of not only who voices him, but the fact that making him creepy also means he won't be anything stupid like in the comics back in the old days. Riddler now in the comics (ex. HUSH) has made him more of a threat. And that ain't make-up, those are tatoos. Who would you be scared of? A Riddler with just a jumpsuit and puzzles for you to solve or one that has a gothic, creepy look and can find out who you are under that mask like "snap" and even threaten those around you?

Its no use SS, anything you say he'll just argue The Batman is god's gift to animation.

Well not a gift of animation. TB is still good, it just needs time to bring what its full potential in. At least we still see a bit in few episodes.

Anything else? BRING IT ON!!!!

[Darthphere]

Maybe its nominated because the overall quality of today's cartoon is horrible. Save a few exceptions like JLU and some others, the cartoons they peddle on today;s children are horrible and of low production qaulity. A cartoon about Monkey robots? Please. The truth of the matter the majority of people think The Batman is of low quality. Deal with it man.

[Silver Sable]

Binker, you always have an excuse for my answers don't you? lol :p

[Binker]

Well its a good thing we can talk to, well me and others, get ahold of Matsuda. Even I asked him in a Q&A topic that the show should be dark, or dark-ER.

So even as I want the show to be dark, TB is still good and shouldn't be bad-mouthed when it still has good stuff still.

[hippie_hunter]

Well let me ask this; what do you think of these episodes: Rubberface of Comedy, Clayface of Tragedy, Riddled, Meltdown, Strange Minds, The Laughing Bat, Night and the City, Batgirl Begins (both parts), Fistful of Felt, Fluers du Mal, The Apprentice, and TBvD?

Except for Riddled and TBvD, all of those suck.

[Binker]

Okay then, then for you Hippie Hunter and maybe everyone else; you don't hate TB you only like it to a certain degree.

What about the comic "The Batman Strikes"? The other thing, besides the DTV, of this series that has no censors.

[Silver Sable]

Well its a good thing we can talk to, well me and others, get ahold of Matsuda. Even I asked him in a Q&A topic that the show should be dark, or dark-ER.

So even as I want the show to be dark, TB is still good and shouldn't be bad-mouthed when it still has good stuff still.

So others get mad at you by disagreeing with them?

[Binker]

Its.....difficult.

[Silver Sable]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Binker]

what?

How about the comic?

[Darthphere]

Lets think logically. If we dont like the show, why would we read The Batman Strikes comic?

[Binker]

Because TB Strikes has things (like real guns and look and feel similar to BTAS/TNBA) that TB the show doesn't.

Someone who watches the show saw this topic. He says he agrees with both of us.

I guess most people just dislike the show. Doesn't mean something pops up from this show that would change people's minds for just a second.

But he also says that his problem with alot of you and your posts is that while alot of you make sense, you dont really have the right to say too much about the show since almost all of you havent seen any later episodes

[hippie_hunter]

All of the Johnny DC comics suck, even Justice League Unlimited

[droogiedroogie2]

Here is the real reason why people hate The Batman:

They don't hate it.Ah, yes, the all-wise Binker, here to tell me what I think. Where would I be without you? Conceivably, I would still be under the erroneous impression that I actually DO hate The Batman, not because it runs completely, 100% counter to BTAS and the comics, but because it just plain straight-up sucks nutsack. The writing is beyond awful, the character designs are freaking wierd, and the character backstories are generally retarded.

They like it in dark episodes like in Strange Minds for example or the DTV The Batman vs. Dracula.They do? Oh yes, of course they do, I forgot. Once again, Binker is here to tell me what I think about things. Although, before Binker's enlightenment of me, I could have sworn I really detested the DTV, and had never seen ANY episode of TB that I enjoyed, and I do check in on it occasionally to see if it improves.

Remember the cartoons before BTAS? How old and "grainy" they were, would you want that?Oh right. Now I remember. We WERE all saying that we'd prefer ancient pre-BTAS animation. I honestly can't remember WHEN anybody requested that animation go back to the stone age, but surely, since Binker said so, we must have. I can really only remember wanting TB cancelled and replaced with a show that respects the character and mythos of Batman, but I guess that basically means the same thing in Binker's book. Can't imagine how though.

And people might think TB won't be dark to suit those fans, but except for the DTV which was dark, since its debut the show has become dark and maturing episode by episode. The show is dark in the same way that the Megadeth episode of Duck Dodgers rocked.

A BTAS fan love this and so does me. Others too. One BTAS fan loves it, and therefore, Binker is right. Of course. The logic is unarguable, pure astounding genius. By the way, the grammar in your entire post is appalling. Please work on it. It hurts my brain to look at it.

Just watch it and say to yourself: "It AIN'T replacing BTAS, it doesn't HAVE to be like BTAS, IT'S ITS OWN SHOW."It AIN'T replacing BTAS, it's just STEALING all the characters with it's Godforsaken EMBARGO, IT'S A PIECE-OF-CRAP SHOW THAT VIOLATES SO MANY IMPORTANT ELEMENTS OF THE BATMAN MYTHOS.

[droogiedroogie2]

Man, I hate how everytime I express my intense hatred of this show, people accuse me of comparing it to BTAS or being a BTAS fanboy or something like that. My hatred of this show is in no way related to BTAS. See, some of you may forget that The Batman is actually based on a widely successful comic book character. I compare The Batman to the comics, and that's why I hate it. The comic books were awesome (at least, the comics from a certain era are awesome), and this show is terrible. I cringe every time I see this shows "Batman" move lightning speed to the other side of a villain. This isn't The Flash or Superman!! He has no superpowers! They are destorying the very concept of Batman by making him this way. And of course, what kind of Batman lets his sidekick get away with endangering his own life. Batman doens't take that crap. You screw up on the job, you're fired. He's fired many sidekicks for that crap. Yet in this show, it goes by without mention.

Then of course there's the hideous art and character designs. The Joker looks retarded and cant even stand upright. Not to mention he doesn't wear shoes. And his plans are terribly lame. I saw one episode where he wanted to change a statues face to look like him. Wtf?!? OMG!! The Joker screwed up our statue!! What will we do?!? So many lives lost!! And if i'm not mistake (its been a while since i saw that episode) his attempt to drive a policeman crazy in this show was to hypnotize him or some crap. Whereas in the comics, he shoots Gordons daughter then shows him pictures of her naked and dying while midgets beat him on a roller coaster. And yeah, i get that it's a kids cartoon and they cant do all that stuff, which is exactly why this show should not exist.A perfect response.

[droogiedroogie2]

It did win a daytime emmy for sound though. Unfortunately, none of us here complained about the sound quality.

I think of Joker's appearence similar to how he looked in Arkham Asylum....aaaaaaaaaaaaaand you didn't read Arkham Asylum.

Riddler looks like that because of not only who voices him, but the fact that making him creepy also means he won't be anything stupid like in the comics back in the old days. Riddler now in the comics (ex. HUSH) has made him more of a threat....so that means we can go back to the real Riddler now, right? Since the real Riddler is a threat now...right...?

And that ain't make-up, those are tatoos. Who would you be scared of? A Riddler with just a jumpsuit and puzzles for you to solve or one that has a gothic, creepy look and can find out who you are under that mask like "snap" and even threaten those around you?Kind of like the REAL Riddler, the one from the comics? The real Riddler, the one from the comics, doesn't have "just a jumpsuit and puzzles." Dude murders people, and wears a pretty pimp-ass suit. Dude is stylin'.

Someone who watches the show saw this topic. He says he agrees with both of us.Ooooh...anonymous sources...

Anything else? BRING IT ON!!!!Are you seven years old, or eight?

[Binker]

Let's talk about how Batman should be:

Lets pretend for a moment that some people hate the obsessive ninja part of Batman. Well that was introduce in Batman: Year One and was put in BTAS and now in Batman Begins. Of course TB has that. And if you saw the film "Versus", the ninja stunts they did there is similar TB Batman does.

Ok, lets say people out there (not me) say that the Batman being a ninja sucks and want Batman to be "like he was". Well where do you start?

Let's subtract 20 years: 1986. That introduced to us Batman that's still here today. Now subtract another 20 years and you have 1966, what was going on in Batman at that time?

Well alot of people say stuff that is Silver Age but that ended...lets say before 1964. And the comics there were, while light, were getting serious and on their way to where O' Neil & Adams would take over. And of course the '60s show which was the campy take to Batman.

Subtract another 20 to 1946 and you have a goofy Batman, with Batman and Robin meeting aliens and riding a big eagle. Or go right back to the beginning in 1939 and he's killing people in every issue. Is that what Batman is? No, thats what Batman was.

We all know that BTAS uses elements form both the Burton film and the point where O'Neil & Adams began to the present. And what does TB have? TB uses many elements from several Batman incarnations:

60s:
The logo, Batman's suit, Batgirl's suit, Mr. Freeze as a villian, the bat poles in the cave, the Batmobile (well Batmobile #1), half of Catwoman's suit,.

Tim Burton's Batman movies:
Creepiness and semi-creepiness of characters, actions, and settings. Joker (semi), original version of Joker (creepy), Penguin from Batman Returns, the snow setting in Batman Returns reminded me of Burton while the inside Joker's mind, which in turn is based on The Cell, is very Burton-like, the Batboat is somewhat similar to the Bat SkiBoat, Batmobile #2 kinda represents the Batmobile from the first two films. In TB, the cave also uses the sewer systems, theres a debate right now if thats the same for Batman '89/Batman Returns for the cave. Believe it or not, Wayne Manor is a clone of the Batman Returns one.

Schumacher's Batman films:
Wayne CEO of his company rather than Fox, Mr. Freeze combination of villian and wife, Freeze freezing the city, the Riddler swinging and having gadgets inside the cane, bat symbols located in numberous places in the cave.

Comics:
Ellen Yin's name is based on New Commissioner Ellen Yindel from The Dark Knight Returns, Mayor Grange and the idea of having Hush, a post-No Man's Land-like batcave. And droogiedroogie2 said no, but Joker's (not whole design, just his face and hair) is based on Arkham Asylum. If not based, then the idea of.

Elseworlds:
Of course, The Batman vs. Dracula is based on the three part Red Rain books.

And you know what? Bruce Timm wanted to do vampires like having Man-Bat being a vampire bat and vampire characters like Nocturna in BTAS but couldn't. Now, TB's crew has done two vampire characters: THAT vampire Man-Bat and Dracula.

So basically, I found that this show consists itself with many elements of The Batman. They're mixed together.

I'm not saying for you to change your minds. Its just that when I hear people like you guys who say that its bad when in fact you haven't seen the whole show and just couple episodes mainly from Season One, then you shouldn't say its bad in the first place sicne you've seen a small part.

[Mister J]

'The Batman' may contain alot of familiar elements of the Dark Knight's history (comic, film and TV). Individually, those elements may be great. However, when they all are presented together, the overall aesthetic value seems to drop. I recognize recurring themes to the Batman mythos in 'The Batman', I just find its total sum lacking. It's not a horrible show, but nothing I'd make a point to watch either.

[Binker]

EVERY show has its flaws, even BTAS. My only problems with BTAS/TNBA was

1) there were many different batcaves in every episode and no primary one. Once in the latter episodes and TNBA, there was a primary one. But still, even then there was different designs in certain episodes.

2) Every show was good, except Mudslide. Which I didn't like.

3) In TNBA; I hated, somewhat, that Batman turned hatefuil in my eyes in certain episodes. That was continued in Batman Beyond.

The Batman is a great show...so was BTAS...so was SuperFriends...so was the filmation's Batman show. Its all perspective. I remember watching BTAS when I was young. I was so excited with that show, and Batman '89/Batman Returns and I was starting getting the comics which at that time was the Knightfall series. I LOVED BATMAN! I couldn't wait to see it when I got home from school and my dad loved it that he either knew what would happen in the next episode or recorded it for me if the time changed or I was late coming home.

I remember my dad was so shocked that actors/actresses he knew were providing their voices to the show. I remember when he knew who did what, he would go "NO WAY!" Actual words.

Right now, kids like I was are experiencing what I was experiencing back then: new Batman movie, new Batman series, they are getting into Batman either for the first time or this is just another piece of Bat-Fan for them. And they are, or about to, getting the comics. Which thank god Infinite Crisis is happening for them since new readers can jump on OYL. And their dads, fans of the Dark Knight themselves, are experiencing it with them.

We, as fans, always let in new fans of our beloved character. Hey, back then, many loved Batman from the '60s show, they got into it. Even as this show has its problems, if new people, new younger people, can get into Batman from this show and the new movie, why should we scream that this should be taken off the air when in fact this show is doing what BTAS did for me and others, despite differences between the two shows.

[SHADOWBAT69]

'The Batman' may contain alot of familiar elements of the Dark Knight's history (comic, film and TV). Individually, those elements may be great. However, when they all are presented together, the overall aesthetic value seems to drop. I recognize recurring themes to the Batman mythos in 'The Batman', I just find its total sum lacking. It's not a horrible show, but nothing I'd make a point to watch either.


i agree with you. It just makes for a confusing world in TB. Not all those elements should be mixed.


Red Rain is the base for Batman vs. Dracula? Aside from the aspect of Batman taking on Dracula and maybe the plot surrounding "the others", i thought this was just an animated version of Bram Stokers Dracula where Van Helsings role was replaced by Batman.

I like the show, as i said, but i sure dont love it. I wish they would stay a little more true to the original timeline of things, but i know there are factors that kind of prevented that. However, i dont think you can compare the era of TAS and the previous Batman film franchise to this modern era of Bat media we are in. You can no way compare the mania that occured between 89 and 97 to what we just experienced this last summer. This current cartoon isnt being pushed like TAS was, it also has a completely different time slot, which i think hurts TB. So it isnt getting the viewership it should for a character like Batman. The movie, as much as i enjoyed it, cannot compare to the previous 4 blockbusters as far as hype and media exposure. This also hurt the character. There was no Batmania to help push this resurrection. The comics. well, i have a buddy who runs 2 comic shops, and am friends with 2 others who own comic shops. There isnt an influx of new readers. You may get some who come in and pick up some books for a couple months, but they usually dont stick with it. It all comes down to the loyal fans who have been with the character for years. This is who is unhappy with TB. And i really do believe this is the majority that is watching the show and critisizing it. It just isnt the higher quality we come to expect.

[Alpha and Omega]

'The Batman' may contain alot of familiar elements of the Dark Knight's history (comic, film and TV). Individually, those elements may be great. However, when they all are presented together, the overall aesthetic value seems to drop. I recognize recurring themes to the Batman mythos in 'The Batman', I just find its total sum lacking. It's not a horrible show, but nothing I'd make a point to watch either.

:up: It's not something anybody would tivo, but it's viewable if you have time to burn.

[Warhammer]

The Batman is nothing more to me than a show to watch just for the sake of watching it and killing time. Dont get me wrong, i dont 100% hate it, but strongly dislike it.

Now, JLU is something i look forward to watching and enjoying.

[Mr. Socko]

I don't like the animation

I don't like how they've changed the characters so much

I don't like the look of the characters, The Joker expecially


But has this show changed any? I haven't watched it since December?

[hippie_hunter]

3) In TNBA; I hated, somewhat, that Batman turned hatefuil in my eyes in certain episodes. That was continued in Batman Beyond.
Batman is a hateful person. For the longest time he has hated Hal Jordan for the Paralax fiasco. He hates Green Arrow, Hawkman, Zatanna, and Ray Palmer for mindwiping him and Catwoman, only forgiving Black Canary for their actions (because he trusts her most likely due to her partnership with Oracle). A day doesn't go by where he dreams of killing the Joker by his own hand. He hates Lesile for withholding treatmen to the Spoiler intentionally. He hated Artemis for becomming Wonder Woman and refused to let her sit at Diana's seat in the JLA. He only fully trusts Batgirl, Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, the Huntress, Catwoman, Black Canary, Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Martian Manhunter. Batman these days is basically a douchebag.

The Batman is a great show...so was BTAS...so was SuperFriends...so was the filmation's Batman show. Its all perspective. I remember watching BTAS when I was young. I was so excited with that show, and Batman '89/Batman Returns and I was starting getting the comics which at that time was the Knightfall series. I LOVED BATMAN! I couldn't wait to see it when I got home from school and my dad loved it that he either knew what would happen in the next episode or recorded it for me if the time changed or I was late coming home.

The Aquaman fanboy in me is angry at you for liking the Superfriends

[Binker]

I don't like Superfriends. I mentioned it because I was talking about the various Batman cartoons/animations.

[LexCorp]

The Batman,
Not the best incarnation of the story I have seen but it is not vomit inducing. I do not give it a hard time but it is obviously a cheap attempt to cash in on the Batman Begins movie and the recent re birth of the franchise. As over here in the UK Batman Begins was released then came a cheap animated version of (animated) Jackie Chan playing The Batman. I have watched a lot of it but it has never grabbed me fully and made me go COOL

[Binker]

Like in Q&A for example, the thing that made the story good was that it was a father/son moment with Bruce and Alfred on how much Bruce wasn't even a child after the parents murder and how much, in Alfred's mind, he's been obsessed becoming Batman that makes him sad that he became this. That added already known in Season One that Alfred only had love for Bruce, and not Batman. Until Season Two where he accepted.

But it was the bad FAT design of Cluemaster and his plan to retake a quiz show's questions to the ones who ran it and the one who won it that kinda shaked up the episode and shadowed over the one good thing of it.

That's just my thought.

[hunter_hippie]

But it was the bad FAT design of Cluemaster and his plan to retake a quiz show's questions to the ones who ran it and the one who won it that kinda shaked up the episode and shadowed over the one good thing of it.

Please. As if the Cluemaster was ever a good character in the first place. Any change to the character is a good change. Fat, bald, female, purple skin, whatever - any and all would improve the character on the whole. If that was really all that held you back from liking Q&A, you really need to re-evaluate your criteria for liking/disliking an ep.

[hippie_hunter]

Please. As if the Cluemaster was ever a good character in the first place. Any change to the character is a good change. Fat, bald, female, purple skin, whatever - any and all would improve the character on the whole. If that was really all that held you back from liking Q&A, you really need to re-evaluate your criteria for liking/disliking an ep.

But they made the Cluemaster even worse, and thats kinda hard to do because the Cluemaster is easily one of the worst villains in Batman's Rogues Gallery next to Eggman, King Snake, Pre-Dini Mr. Freeze, and Maxie Zeus.

[Darthphere]

But they made the Cluemaster even worse, and thats kinda hard to do because the Cluemaster is easily one of the worst villains in Batman's Rogues Gallery next to Eggman, King Snake, Pre-Dini Mr. Freeze, and Maxie Zeus.


Dont forget Crazy Quilt.

[Silver Sable]

Eggman

Who's that? Sounds like a mimic from Sonic

[Binker]

I don't know if he meant Egghead but Egghead is whom Vincent Price played in the '60s Batman show in the third season when they were creating villians on their own.

[The Apatow Crew]

i just think it sounds stupid as they always add "the " in there before batman.

its always the batman.

why can't they just say he look its batman.

legal troubles or something?

[droogiedroogie2]

No, no, I like this "Eggman" idea.

See, he's like Mr. Freeze. Dolphus Egg's wife fell prey to a tragic illness, and while he was trying to come up with a way to cure it, he had to freeze her in time using a complex egg-related process. His employer discovered what he was doing, though, and shut the whole thing down. Hysterically, Dolphus tried to save his wife, but was instead bombarded by eggs. He was presumed dead, but he re-emerged as Eggman, an empty "shell" of a man, drained of the yolk that is his soul. He must be encased at all times in a large egg-shaped glass shell that protects him from the elements, because his skin was rendered useless thanks to the super-saturation of egg material it recieved during the accident. He powers this egg-shaped vehicle with the only known material that can supply the right kind of fuel--egg shells. He commits grocery-store robberies to steal massive quantities of eggs, using the shells to power his vehicle and the yolk and white as ammunition for his deadly egg-innards-guns. These guns convert yolk and eggwhite into toxic goo, then fire them out rapidly at enemies.

[hunter_hippie]

But they made the Cluemaster even worse,

Not possible.

[hunter_hippie]

i just think it sounds stupid as they always add "the " in there before batman.

its always the batman.

why can't they just say he look its batman.

legal troubles or something?

No, that's his name. The Batman. Not just Batman. It's like The Flash - not just Flash. Wonder Woman and Superman do not have a 'the' preceeding their name.

[Prognosticator]

The animation sucks. The stories aren't original enough for a revamp. As a huge Bat-fan, I don't believe they do justice to the characters, themselves. The quote "new" stories, feel rehashed and watered down versions of bat-stories I've seen before...The originatity that could have been established has been completely sucked dry from this series!

[Darthphere]

No, that's his name. The Batman. Not just Batman. It's like The Flash - not just Flash. Wonder Woman and Superman do not have a 'the' preceeding their name.



Funny, ive always seen Batman on his comics never The Batman. But of course this cartoon is just about being different with no regards to any actual quality.

[Binker]

He was called THE BAT-MAN in '39. And in the first story that was unpublished in 1934, guess how was Superman was referred? THE SUPERMAN.

Its probably just a throwback in the past.

BTW, people may argue that as proved in "Thunder" the city relies TOO MUCH on Batman even on a madman with a building destroying ship. Well I rewatched that episode and that isn't highly the case. Gordon wanted to wait til Batman came and did something, but it was Mayor Grange who said that they shouldn't rely on one man for a situation like that.

I sure hope someone from the crew sees my story pitch.

[Darthphere]

He was called THE BAT-MAN in '39. And in the first story that was unpublished in 1934, guess how was Superman was referred? THE SUPERMAN.

Its probably just a throwback in the past.

BTW, people may argue that as proved in "Thunder" the city relies TOO MUCH on Batman even on a madman with a building destroying ship. Well I rewatched that episode and that isn't highly the case. Gordon wanted to wait til Batman came and did something, but it was Mayor Grange who said that they shouldn't rely on one man for a situation like that.

I sure hope someone from the crew sees my story pitch.


I really doubt its a throwback. And you analyze these episodes way too much.

[raybia]

It's a pretty good show, not as good as Batman: TAS but so what? The fight scenes are much better. Batman's movements are also much more acrobatic, which I like.


I hate it because every 5 or 6 weeks when I get a chance to watch it, its always a rerun.

[droogiedroogie2]

He was called THE BAT-MAN in '39. And in the first story that was unpublished in 1934, guess how was Superman was referred? THE SUPERMAN.That wasn't Superman. You clearly didn't read the story. This is what happens when you kids try to act as if you understand history (and this is really a problem that goes far beyond pop culture) without actually doing your homework. Just becuase it was by the same guys, and it had a Superman character in it, that doesn't mean it was remotely the same dude. Also, please learn grammar. It isn't hard. I know I use a lot of run-on sentences, but I am aware of that when I do it and it doesn't obscure my meaning. "guess how was Superman was referred" is just bad.

[Binker]

That wasn't Superman. You clearly didn't read the story. This is what happens when you kids try to act as if you understand history (and this is really a problem that goes far beyond pop culture) without actually doing your homework.

Your half right. I did know what that story was about. But beyond that, that was it. But I'm not a kid. 20 years of age equals that I'm a adult. And can have Jury Duty, but can't call my dad if I'm arrested.

[Binker]

I just realized that The Batman, theres a chance that its next season or the fifth season will be its last. Because animated shows these days; 52 episodes or 5 seasons is the number a show can last long.

The only way a show could last more to a 5th season(the 5th would lead to 65 episodes total) or beyond that is if theres a demand for it. So far, I've, and others, have heard nothing wrong on the toy fronts which is the main thing for animated shows.

5 seasons is what X-Men: Evolution has but it almost got a 6th season and would have if it wasn't cancelled. Teen Titans has 5 seasons and we knew about its cancellation during that final season, and that has 65 episodes total. And together of JL/JLU, same as Teen Titans. Or will they break away from that and do more seasons than regular shows these days have?

Because if 5 is what they'll get and have, they better bring more of dark elements to the show and quick. I read one of the interviews, and I knew it, they're planning to make it dark. I read one of the interviews and Matsuda said he is explaining the steps Batman took from the young, fully trained, learning the ropes masked avenger to the slightly older ('30-ish lets say), DARK-er knight capred cursader.

I did have this new idea for Season 4, the next DTV, and season 5. I hope to God that if Matsuda sees that at LoG or somewhere he'l use it but I don't know. Its good, mind you.

As much as I would like to, I don't see The Batman going more than five seasons without SOME level of re-structuring. Maybe spin-offs like the next series is a Superman series, which Matsuida wants to do. But maybe instead of a Superman series, its a Superman/Batman series or perhaps a Wonder Woman show and a new JL, JLA series. We don't know, but fun to think about.

With the possibility of the show ending at season 5, going to that or beyond that for a continuation for the show would mean change. Change always happens, reformating always happens, re-structuring always happens, all this to the shows to move it along, evovle, and enhance, improve. Of couse, like BTAS. If theres still a demand for it, it might continue from there. But after 4-5 seasons, the show would need to be enhanced, improve, and reconstruct

Matsuda said this series is all about Batman becoming to the point he is now in the comics and what he remember him as. If Matsuda's plan is still sticking,.That's why I think Robin will be a teenager in season 4 so Nightwing can be introduce in this series early than never, like in the 5th. To hit the relationship with Batgirl more, or ALOT more.

That's why I believe my idea can work.

But....this sounds like a new topic.....what do you think? NO bashing, no saying "Yes! this show won't last that long, YES!", what do you think of this show lasting into/beyond its fifth season and the demand for more? And it being reconstructed during this time and new shows of the DCAU?

[droogiedroogie2]

I just realized that The Batman, theres a chance that its next season or the fifth season will be its last.Best thing you've said in this thread.

The only way a show could last more to a 5th season(the 5th would lead to 65 episodes total) or beyond that is if theres a demand for it. So far, I've, and others, have heard nothing wrong on the toy fronts which is the main thing for animated shows.Well at least you admit that the only thing driving The Batman is marketing. The entire show is about selling toys, not about respecting the Batman mythos.

Because if 5 is what they'll get and have, they better bring more of dark elements to the show and quick. I read one of the interviews, and I knew it, they're planning to make it dark. I read one of the interviews and Matsuda said he is explaining the steps Batman took from the young, fully trained, learning the ropes masked avenger to the slightly older ('30-ish lets say), DARK-er knight capred cursader."Dark" to Matsuda means not showing daylight. He doesn't understand the concept of a dark Batman.

I did have this new idea for Season 4, the next DTV, and season 5. I hope to God that if Matsuda sees that at LoG or somewhere he'l use it but I don't know. Its good, mind you.You're 20, you say? Surely you know by now that no major company anywhere ever will accept solicitations for legal reasons, no matter how much you protest that you want no compensation. It simply can't be done.

But maybe instead of a Superman series, its a Superman/Batman series or perhaps a Wonder Woman show and a new JL, JLA series.Don't you even joke about that. If Matsuda ****s up the Justice League, I'm never watching Cartoon Network again.

But after 4-5 seasons, the show would need to be enhanced, improve, and reconstructIf by "enhanced, improve, and reconstruct," you mean completely overhaul the storyline, redesign the characters so they actually look a little like they're supposed to, and disavow all episodes of the previous seasons, then yeah, I think that could work.

But....this sounds like a new topic.....what do you think? NO bashing, no saying "Yes! this show won't last that long, YES!", what do you think of this show lasting into/beyond its fifth season and the demand for more? And it being reconstructed during this time and new shows of the DCAU?Don't try to pretend this is the DCAU. It's not. This is the Matsudaverse. It's separated from the real DCAU, the Timmverse, by it's ridiculous character designs, retarded and one-dimensional villains and origin stories, and completely incompetent Batman with invisible Bat-ears.

[I am Batman]

What is Matsuda's full name? I want to check out what else this guy has done.

[Binker]

Best thing you've said in this thread.

Thank you. I think I've made a friend. :)

Well at least you admit that the only thing driving The Batman is marketing. The entire show is about selling toys, not about respecting the Batman mythos.

Well.....every cartoon (better than sayign "animated shows") has toys being sold. That goes to TT, goes to JL/JLU, right back to BTAS to every show before that like Superfriends. I did not say it wasn't respecting the mythos.

"Dark" to Matsuda means not showing daylight. He doesn't understand the concept of a dark Batman.

He loves Frank Miller's and Jim Lee's Batmans. That's DARK.

You're 20, you say? Surely you know by now that no major company anywhere ever will accept solicitations for legal reasons, no matter how much you protest that you want no compensation. It simply can't be done.

What? BULL****! ... Damn.

Don't you even joke about that. If Matsuda ****s up the Justice League, I'm never watching Cartoon Network again.[quote=droogiedroogie2]

Well not JL, but he has said to be wanting to do Superman & Wonder Woman.

[quote=droogiedroogie2]If by "enhanced, improve, and reconstruct," you mean completely overhaul the storyline, redesign the characters so they actually look a little like they're supposed to, and disavow all episodes of the previous seasons, then yeah, I think that could work.

Well thats what they did to TNBA to resume that show.

Don't try to pretend this is the DCAU. It's not. This is the Matsudaverse. It's separated from the real DCAU, the Timmverse, by it's ridiculous character designs, retarded and one-dimensional villains and origin stories, and completely incompetent Batman with invisible Bat-ears.

DCAU can be anything. Timmverse and Matsudaverse. If you wanna know, I did e-mail to WB (if it'll work) how much people don't like TB and they should make it darker. And that I mentioned that they must be seeign a small fraction of how people view it.

If I were you, I would do something to amke sure WB knew how you guys felt to either improve the show or start anew.

[hunter_hippie]

Well at least you admit that the only thing driving The Batman is marketing. The entire show is about selling toys, not about respecting the Batman mythos.

Oh please. :rolleyes: What animated show isn't about selling toys nowdays? Turtles - toys. Pokemon - toys. Yugioh - toys. One Piece - toys. Shaolin Showdown - toys. Code Name Kids Next Door - toys. Winx - toys. WITCHES - toys. Care Bears - toys. I could go on and on.

"Dark" to Matsuda means not showing daylight. He doesn't understand the concept of a dark Batman.

I know. The Drac vs Batman DTV feature wasn't dark at all. I'm sure Matsuda had nothing to do with that.

Don't you even joke about that. If Matsuda ****s up the Justice League, I'm never watching Cartoon Network again.

First of all, The Batman is on WB - not CN. Secondly, shouldn't you be more upset by CN killing the current JLU (and Titans)? In theory, if you like the Dini/Timm-verse as much as you claim to, I'd think that alone would be enough to get you to stop watching CN.

If by "enhanced, improve, and reconstruct," you mean completely overhaul the storyline, redesign the characters so they actually look a little like they're supposed to, and disavow all episodes of the previous seasons, then yeah, I think that could work.

Yep. I totally agree with you. Because we all know that these characters haven't ever changed thru the comics, movies or cartoons over the years. We should stick to the black and gray Batman with purple gloves - that was the original concept and thus nothing should ever be different. Also, he should use a gun and kill people as much as possible.

Don't try to pretend this is the DCAU. It's not. This is the Matsudaverse. It's separated from the real DCAU, the Timmverse, by it's ridiculous character designs, retarded and one-dimensional villains and origin stories, and completely incompetent Batman with invisible Bat-ears.

Um...no. The Dini/Timm-verse is not the DCAU. The DCAU is whatever DC (and WB) wants it to be at the time. Like I mentioned above, the animation style has always changed, from Superfriends to TAS to The Batman. It'll continue to change. Get over it. Or, continue to waste your time ******ing about how horrible it is. Either way, I really don't care.

[hunter_hippie]

What is Matsuda's full name? I want to check out what else this guy has done.

Billy Bob Matsuda. Go search for it on Google. I'm sure you'll turn up lots of references. You should see the pictures of his trailer he lives in & works out of. It's a double wide.

[Binker]

You know guys, what can we do to make WB restart this animated series for the better?

I'm in the like/dislike zone for TB, in case you ask.

Isn't it amazing that in the '90s where the movies weren't so good, the show ruled! NOw the movie, Batman Begins, rules but the show isn't so good. BROKE EVEN!

[hippie_hunter]

Oh please. :rolleyes: What animated show isn't about selling toys nowdays? Turtles - toys. Pokemon - toys. Yugioh - toys. One Piece - toys. Shaolin Showdown - toys. Code Name Kids Next Door - toys. Winx - toys. WITCHES - toys. Care Bears - toys. I could go on and on.
The sad thing is that statement is true. However JL and JLU don't come up with various versions of things just to make a toy of it and toys aren't a huge part of the marketing of Justice League or any of the Timm DCAU shows. Unlike the Batman where the toys play a big part in the marketing.



I know. The Drac vs Batman DTV feature wasn't dark at all. I'm sure Matsuda had nothing to do with that.
I do admit that the Batman vs. Dracula was pretty damn cool. If the show were as dark as the DTV, most people would not have a problem with it aside from the Bat-Embargo.



First of all, The Batman is on WB - not CN. Secondly, shouldn't you be more upset by CN killing the current JLU (and Titans)? In theory, if you like the Dini/Timm-verse as much as you claim to, I'd think that alone would be enough to get you to stop watching CN.
So true. Though, I'm glad Cartoon Network canceled Teen Titans



Yep. I totally agree with you. Because we all know that these characters haven't ever changed thru the comics, movies or cartoons over the years. We should stick to the black and gray Batman with purple gloves - that was the original concept and thus nothing should ever be different. Also, he should use a gun and kill people as much as possible.
The problem though is that the Batman's stories suck almost every time. Plain and simple.



Um...no. The Dini/Timm-verse is not the DCAU. The DCAU is whatever DC (and WB) wants it to be at the time. Like I mentioned above, the animation style has always changed, from Superfriends to TAS to The Batman. It'll continue to change. Get over it. Or, continue to waste your time ******ing about how horrible it is. Either way, I really don't care.
Um...yes. Considering that there are various shows done by Timm that interconnect with one another that makes it the DCAU. The other shows such as Superfriends, the Batman, Teen Titans, and Krypto have so far been only one shot shows and never connected with another show like BTAS, STAS, TNBA, BB, SS, TZP, JL, and JLU have.

[XwolverineX]

I don't like it 'cause Bruce Wayne has an ugly nose.

[Binker]

Umm, ok.

[hunter_hippie]

The sad thing is that statement is true. However JL and JLU don't come up with various versions of things just to make a toy of it and toys aren't a huge part of the marketing of Justice League or any of the Timm DCAU shows. Unlike the Batman where the toys play a big part in the marketing.

Really? How many Flash, GL, Batman MM, WW, Hawkgirl and Superman repaints/crap toys have we gotten? To many.

Same goes for BTAS. Too many repaints & knightstrike/hunter/battle sled/etc variations.

It's always about marketing - cartoons are a commercial plain and simple - no matter what carttoon we're talking about.

So true. Though, I'm glad Cartoon Network canceled Teen Titans

Really? Hmm...

The problem though is that the Batman's stories suck almost every time. Plain and simple.

I'll agree to a degree. They aren't the best stories every week, but I'd rather watch them than some of the other cr@p that's on tv nowdays. Ever seen 'my gym partner's a monkey'?

Um...yes. Considering that there are various shows done by Timm that interconnect with one another that makes it the DCAU. The other shows such as Superfriends, the Batman, Teen Titans, and Krypto have so far been only one shot shows and never connected with another show like BTAS, STAS, TNBA, BB, SS, TZP, JL, and JLU have.

Actually, Batman from Superfriends crossed over with Scooby Doo, which is cannon WB and DC stuff. Does that make the Superfriends Batman and Robin the definitave Batman? No.

Titans crossed over with JLU - Speedy made an appearance just this past weekend and as we discussed before, Nightwing shows up as well. Since Robin will show up in The Batman next season, they're all connected.

So, thanks to Hippie_Hunter, we've proven that The Batman and JLU are in the same universe! Thanks Hippie! :up: You rock!

[droogiedroogie2]

Well thats what they did to TNBA to resume that show.They redesigned Scarecrow and made slight alterations to other characters. Robin became Nightwing and we got a new Robin. They didn't disavow the previous seasons. I'm not sure where you're going with this.


Oh please. :rolleyes: What animated show isn'tabout selling toys nowdays? Turtles - toys. Pokemon - toys. Yugioh - toys. One Piece - toys. Shaolin Showdown - toys. Code Name Kids Next Door - toys. Winx - toys. WITCHES - toys. Care Bears - toys. I could go on and on.Oh! And hey, look, they all suck! Seeing a pattern here? I will also remind you that, like the man said, Justice League was never ABOUT selling toys. It may have sold them, but it wasn't the point of the show. The Batman is 100% about selling merchandise.

First of all, The Batman is on WB - not CN. Secondly, shouldn't you be more upset by CN killing the current JLU (and Titans)? In theory, if you like the Dini/Timm-verse as much as you claim to, I'd think that alone would be enough to get you to stop watching CN.1. While it is on the WB, that network is so ****ing stupid that I haven't even thought about watching it for a couple years. However, it is also rebroadcast on CN, which is why I made the statement.
2. I am very upset by CN killing the JLU. It's a load of bull****. However, it's one thing to cancel a great show. It's another to take a crap all over its legacy by broadcasting Matsuda's inferior imitation of it. They've done that once with Batman, and if they do it again I refuse to watch the station.
3. I'm totally fine with Teen Titans being cancelled. The show was even worse than The Batman.

Yep. I totally agree with you. Because we all know that these characters haven't ever changed thru the comics, movies or cartoons over the years. We should stick to the black and gray Batman with purple gloves - that was the original concept and thus nothing should ever be different. Also, he should use a gun and kill people as much as possible.This is what's the problem with modern-day hippies. It's great that you think about change, it really is. Change can be very important in a lot of arenas, and comic book characters are no exception. But it's problematic to automatically assume that ALL changes are good, and that's what people like you seem to do. Many of the changes that the character of Batman has undergone have been essential to creating the spirit of Batman that we know today. He doesn't kill like he did in 1939. Robin wears tights. Other changes weren't so cool. The blue and grey costume completely detracted from Batman's scariness, which is essential to the character. The movie costumes also have been pretty poor, looking more like stormtroopers from Star Wars than Batman. Batman running around in daylight in the Silver Age was a bad decision. Robin himself, it could be argued, was an unwise move. Are you seriously going to sit there and argue that every change ever made to the character was a good one?

Really? How many Flash, GL, Batman MM, WW, Hawkgirl and Superman repaints/crap toys have we gotten? To many. But it didn't affect the show!

Same goes for BTAS. Too many repaints & knightstrike/hunter/battle sled/etc variations.But those were kept out of the show!

It's always about marketing - cartoons are a commercial plain and simple - no matter what carttoon we're talking about.One more time, BTAS and JLU weren't commercials because the ridiculous toys were kept out of the show. The actual majority of toys for BTAS were never even seen in the show! How, then, could it be a commercial for them?

I'll agree to a degree. They aren't the best stories every week, but I'd rather watch them than some of the other cr@p that's on tv nowdays. Ever seen 'my gym partner's a monkey'?But why should we have to settle for substandard crap? There's enough people that DEMAND bad TV, that the rest of us should at least TRY to counterbalance them with an outcry for something with a little substance.

Actually, Batman from Superfriends crossed over with Scooby Doo, which is cannon WB and DC stuff. Does that make the Superfriends Batman and Robin the definitave Batman? No.1. Has DC ever done Scooby comics? If not, then this can't be more than an Elseworlds crossover (can't believe I'm analyzing the freaking Scooby Batman movie.)
2. Was that actually the Batman from SuperFriends? I haven't watched it in awhile, was there something that indicated that it was for sure the SuperFriends Batman?

Titans crossed over with JLU - Speedy made an appearance just this past weekend and as we discussed before, Nightwing shows up as well. Since Robin will show up in The Batman next season, they're all connected.Not quite. If all it takes to be in the same universe is to have the same characters, than you didn't even need to do this. Batman exists in the Matsudaverse and in the DCAU. Even though Speedy was in both shows, there was nothing to suggest that it was the same Speedy. Speedy in Teen Titans never mentions Green Arrow. For that matter, Teen Titans Robin never mentions Batman. There's nothing to suggest continuity with each other. The Matsudaverse remains squarely outside the DCAU.

[hunter_hippie]

Oh! And hey, look, they all suck! Seeing a pattern here? I will also remind you that, like the man said, Justice League was never ABOUT selling toys. It may have sold them, but it wasn't the point of the show. The Batman is 100% about selling merchandise.

I'll be you were one of the fans that complained about the TAS figures not making sense - "Batman wouldn't wear that. Batman wouldn't have that huge honking gun/missile launcher/satelite dish on his arm!" - yet now that some of the costumes (such as anti freeze Batman) are showing up both on the toon and in action figure form, they're doing something wrong??? Please. I guess it's true when they say you can't please all the people all the time.

Look at it this way. Batman is among the top rated show in it's demographic each week with both boys and girls. Getting kids interested in Batman is a good thing, right?

1. While it is on the WB, that network is so ****ing stupid that I haven't even thought about watching it for a couple years. However, it is also rebroadcast on CN, which is why I made the statement.

Funny...I've just looked at the next week's worth of CN schedules and I don't see The Batman anywhere. When exactly is it being rebroadcast on CN? (It was briefly shown on CN - but it's not anymore.)

2. I am very upset by CN killing the JLU. It's a load of bull****. However, it's one thing to cancel a great show. It's another to take a crap all over its legacy by broadcasting Matsuda's inferior imitation of it. They've done that once with Batman, and if they do it again I refuse to watch the station.

So, you'll complain and complain about The Batman, but you won't take a stand about a 'great show'? Hmm...what's wrong with this picture?

3. I'm totally fine with Teen Titans being cancelled. The show was even worse than The Batman.

In your opinion. I'd wager that Titans has just as many fans as JLU does - just in a different age range.

Change can be very important in a lot of arenas, and comic book characters are no exception. But it's problematic to automatically assume that ALL changes are good, and that's what people like you seem to do.

Didn't say they were. (Psst - it's a little something I like to call 'sarcasim' - look it up.)

Many of the changes that the character of Batman has undergone have been essential to creating the spirit of Batman that we know today. He doesn't kill like he did in 1939. Robin wears tights. Other changes weren't so cool. The blue and grey costume completely detracted from Batman's scariness, which is essential to the character. The movie costumes also have been pretty poor, looking more like stormtroopers from Star Wars than Batman. Batman running around in daylight in the Silver Age was a bad decision. Robin himself, it could be argued, was an unwise move. Are you seriously going to sit there and argue that every change ever made to the character was a good one?

Those are all your opinions. Not fact in any way shape or form. There's a difference and that's something that kids like you are probably too young to realize. Someday you'll understand what I'm talking about after you've experienced a little more of life.

One more time, BTAS and JLU weren't commercials because the ridiculous toys were kept out of the show. The actual majority of toys for BTAS were never even seen in the show! How, then, could it be a commercial for them?

Everything on TV is a commercial in today's market. Please don't make me educate you on marketing.

But why should we have to settle for substandard crap? There's enough people that DEMAND bad TV, that the rest of us should at least TRY to counterbalance them with an outcry for something with a little substance.

How about you write a letter to DC or WB? How about you make your own cartoon that's faithful to what you think Batman should be. Make sure that it doesn't copy TAS or anything that's come before it though. After you put it up, we'll all sit around and bash it for months on end.

1. Has DC ever done Scooby comics? If not, then this can't be more than an Elseworlds crossover (can't believe I'm analyzing the freaking Scooby Batman movie.)

Yes. Do some research.

2. Was that actually the Batman from SuperFriends? I haven't watched it in awhile, was there something that indicated that it was for sure the SuperFriends Batman?

Same voice team of Adam West and Casey Kasem (however you spell his name). Same animation style. Same character. Same Batmobile. Yep, I'd say it was them.

Not quite. If all it takes to be in the same universe is to have the same characters, than you didn't even need to do this.

Good. Glad we can agree.

[SHADOWBAT69]

In TODAYS market cartoons are, imo, all about selling toy lines. That doesnt make it okay for the cartoon to be substandard. Theres no reason to do a crappy episode just because they "main man" wants to introduce a toy variant. BTAS didnt do this. It had a toy line, yes, but, if you look at the original releases of the animated toy line there were only afew Batman variants. It was 2 - 3 Bat Variants and the rest were the villains. It wasnt until the show and the toys became a success that they started expanding the toy line into a more adventure/imagination line. This didnt spill into the animated series. Ill give another example of how a toy line doesnt need to affect the quality of a show. Superman:TAS. There were episodes that had Supes wearing space suits, kryptonite suits, and deep dive suits, among others. They also had toy variants with these, but you know what? It didnt spoil the episode. Seeing The Batman have a suit to combat the cold is okay, but you dont need to make it white camo in the cartoon. Seeing Batman run around in a white costume just looks rediculous. In BTAS when Batman came up with an antidote to combat Ivys formula to create a wooden exoskeleton he didnt turn his costume green. It doesnt need to be in the show to sell the toy. BTAS proved that, so why they feel the need to do it with TB is beyond me. Kids buy what they think looks cool.


Unless im mistaken, Adam West didnt do that voice, it was the guy who did the 60's cartoons and the earlier Superfriends episodes. West didnt come on until the Super Powers show.

[Binker]

Unless im mistaken, Adam West didnt do that voice, it was the guy who did the 60's cartoons and the earlier Superfriends episodes. West didnt come on until the Super Powers show.

The man's name is Olan Soule. Well known as being in the old Dragnet show and Andy Griffith Show.

He first appeared on Batman in the TV series as a newscaster in "The Pharaoh's in a Rut". Then he would play Batman, as well as various voices like Alfred for example, in The Batman/Superman Hour. He would continue to play the caped crusader 'til 1979's "The World's Greatest SuperFriends". Afterwards, he would only play Professor Martin Stein on the later Superfriends shows with TV's Adam West playing Batman.

Olan's last role was on the TV show "Homicide". He died of lung cancer three years later.

[droogiedroogie2]

I'll bet you were one of the fans that complained about the TAS figures not making sense - "Batman wouldn't wear that. Batman wouldn't have that huge honking gun/missile launcher/satelite dish on his arm!" - yet now that some of the costumes (such as anti freeze Batman) are showing up both on the toon and in action figure form, they're doing something wrong??? Please. I guess it's true when they say you can't please all the people all the time. No, you misunderstood us when we said "Batman wouldn't wear that." We weren't complaining that it was something he DIDN'T wear in the show, it was that he WOULDN'T wear it, and he SHOULDN'T wear it. So now that it's being shown on The Batman, the basic complaint is the same. "Anti-Freeze Batman? Why the **** would you make a toy OR a TV episode with Batman wearing that ridiculous getup?"

Look at it this way. Batman is among the top rated show in it's demographic each week with both boys and girls. Getting kids interested in Batman is a good thing, right? Actually it isn't. They'll get a very incorrect impression of what Batman is all about, start buying the real comics, and think to themselves, "What the hell is this guy? He can't fly like the Batman in the TV show, he doesn't have superspeed like the Batman in the TV show, he doesn't make up random gadgets to sell toys like the Batman in the TV show, his fight scenes don't show him and his opponent against a background of streaking colors, anime-style, like the Batman in the TV show, the dialogue isn't flat and uninteresting, the characters aren't one-dimensional and uncomplex, and he has Bat-ears! This isn't Batman!" Batman came from comics, and when his franchise eventually goes out of style, the last medium to portray him will be comics. He is a comic-book character, and we should always strive to be faithful, not necessarily to the original comic-book incarnation, but to the current one. The comic book, good or bad, should set the tone for how Batman is portrayed in all media. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy, but the tone needs to be the same. This is why the Star Wars manga comics were so ****ing retarded.

Funny...I've just looked at the next week's worth of CN schedules and I don't see The Batman anywhere. When exactly is it being rebroadcast on CN? (It was briefly shown on CN - but it's not anymore.) You're right. They still have their Batman section up on the website, but the show's not being shown currently. When I watch the thing, I download the episodes (and then delete them, because it blows ass.)

So, you'll complain and complain about The Batman, but you won't take a stand about a 'great show'? Hmm...what's wrong with this picture? Like I said, it's one thing to cancel a show. All shows come to an end. To protest something that is inevitable, except maybe for The Simpsons, would be ridiculous. But if there was a Matsudaverse rape of the Justice League, that would be disrespectful to comic book fans everywhere, and it would be one too many insults to our intellect, implying that our characters are worth no more than a flat, boring, toy-commercial kids show.

In your opinion. I'd wager that Titans has just as many fans as JLU does - just in a different age range. And that's sort of the whole point, isn't it? You have to be a little less far along on the mental development scale to enjoy a show like Teen Titans or The Batman.

Didn't say they were. (Psst - it's a little something I like to call 'sarcasim' - look it up.) I didn't have to look it up to know that you misspelled it. Maybe YOU should look it up. But I guess that's because you're so much older and more experienced than me. You've done forgot more than I'll ever know, right?

Those are all your opinions. Not fact in any way shape or form. There's a difference and that's something that kids like you are probably too young to realize. Someday you'll understand what I'm talking about after you've experienced a little more of life.Shut the **** up, you ineffective old hippie! How retarded can you be? This whole debate is about opinions! Everything we're talking about is opinion! Whether a show is GOOD or BAD, that's all opinion. There's no objective measure for what is a good TV show. Good Christ, no wonder your generation failed. For every hippie with a concept of progress, there were ten like you who just wanted to rail at the establishment, change things for no reason, and smoke pot.

Everything on TV is a commercial in today's market. Please don't make me educate you on marketing. Because the most powerful thing about The Simpsons, or Family Guy, or American Dad, or Justice League, or Samurai Champloo is all the action figures they're selling. Yeah. More people like the action figures than actually like the show. Right. [Sorry, if you couldn't tell, that was a little "sarcasim" for ya.]

How about you write a letter to DC or WB?That's about as effective as writing to a congressperson.

How about you make your own cartoon that's faithful to what you think Batman should be. Make sure that it doesn't copy TAS or anything that's come before it though. After you put it up, we'll all sit around and bash it for months on end. I'd be glad to do that, but I'll probably have to get some good writing credit under my belt before I can do it. I certainly won't try to design characters. I don't have the arrogance to think that I could somehow improve on what Batman and his supporting cast look like. If he was still around by the time I was in a position to make a Batman cartoon, I'd try to get the Timmverse crew to make the designs and animation. I'd keep it in continuity with the real DCAU. If that's what "copy TAS" means, then I'd be guilty. I feel no need to fix something that was never broken. Same reason I always thought the Ultimate line was stupid.

Yes. Do some research. Why, when I can just ask you?

Same voice team of Adam West and Casey Kasem (however you spell his name). Same animation style. Same character. Same Batmobile. Yep, I'd say it was them. Okeydoke.

Good. Glad we can agree.We agree that your assertion that all Batman cartoons ever are connected is wrong? OK.

[hunter_hippie]

No, you misunderstood us when we said "Batman wouldn't wear that." We weren't complaining that it was something he DIDN'T wear in the show, it was that he WOULDN'T wear it, and he SHOULDN'T wear it. So now that it's being shown on The Batman, the basic complaint is the same. "Anti-Freeze Batman? Why the **** would you make a toy OR a TV episode with Batman wearing that ridiculous getup?"

Because it's about the evolution of a character - not the end result like TAS was. I know that understanding character development probably isn't your strong suit though, so I'll let this point go at that.

Actually it isn't. They'll get a very incorrect impression of what Batman is all about, start buying the real comics, and think to themselves, "What the hell is this guy?

Really? Let's see...

He can't fly like the Batman in the TV show,

Batman hasn't ever used a flight pack or hang glider type of device in the comics? Um..wrong.

he doesn't have superspeed like the Batman in the TV show,

I sure must have missed that episode. Which one specifically was it? Maybe it was a crossover with The Flash? Quicksilver perhaps? No?

he doesn't make up random gadgets to sell toys like the Batman in the TV show,

Right. Batcycle, batplane, bat cuffs, batmobile, batarang, etc etc. Random gadgets galore - whether they're designed to sell toys or not, they're there.

his fight scenes don't show him and his opponent against a background of streaking colors, anime-style,

Colors and style change. What was common in the 60's was replaced by the 70's, 80's, 90's and today. Deal with it.

the dialogue isn't flat and uninteresting, the characters aren't one-dimensional and uncomplex,

Really? Have you been reading the comics recently? They're pretty flat, uninteresting and the character is anything but complex.

and he has Bat-ears!

Depending on the artist, Batman's ears have always grown larger or smaller. Kelly Jones draws them HUGE. Should that become the standard by which every Batman artist is judged? No. It's called an artistic style. Something you, apparently, aren't familiar with. Look it up. We'll wait.



Still waiting.



Have you looked it up yet? Try a google search.







Done? Good.

Batman came from comics, and when his franchise eventually goes out of style, the last medium to portray him will be comics. He is a comic-book character, and we should always strive to be faithful, not necessarily to the original comic-book incarnation, but to the current one.

And comics are a dying art form. The medium doesn't work in today's 'gotta have it now' society.

The comic book, good or bad, should set the tone for how Batman is portrayed in all media. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy, but the tone needs to be the same.

So, Batman should be an angst filled loner that doesn't get along with anyone - Gordon, Robin, Nightwing, Superman, WW - etc, right? Since that's currently what's going on in the comic, that's the direction the show should go? Maybe the comic team of writers and artists should put together the tv show? As rapidly as teams change now, you'd end up with a very inconsistent story and artistic style.

This is why the Star Wars manga comics were so ****ing retarded.

Sounds like you have a problem with anime/manga in general. Maybe that's your problem rather than how good/bad The Batman really is.

You're right. They still have their Batman section up on the website, but the show's not being shown currently. When I watch the thing, I download the episodes (and then delete them, because it blows ass.)

Then why download them at all? Just so that you can have something to complain about? Makes perfect sense to me...

Like I said, it's one thing to cancel a show. All shows come to an end. To protest something that is inevitable, except maybe for The Simpsons, would be ridiculous. But if there was a Matsudaverse rape of the Justice League, that would be disrespectful to comic book fans everywhere, and it would be one too many insults to our intellect, implying that our characters are worth no more than a flat, boring, toy-commercial kids show.

Um...they're fictional characters. They aren't worth any more than the paper they're printed on. They can be made to do whatever the artist/writer wants them to do. That's what you aren't getting here. This version of The Batman isn't final. It'll change. Just enjoy it for what it is now OR stop watching and quit complaining.

And that's sort of the whole point, isn't it? You have to be a little less far along on the mental development scale to enjoy a show like Teen Titans or The Batman.

Not at all. Titans is retelling versions of classic Titans tales. What's wrong with that? George Perez-ish stories with an anime art style. Sounds like a good mix to me. (Just my opinion though.)

I didn't have to look it up to know that you misspelled it. Maybe YOU should look it up. But I guess that's because you're so much older and more experienced than me. You've done forgot more than I'll ever know, right?

And the debate ends there. Anytime one person has to be reduced to complaining about spelling mistakes, the discussion is officially ended. Sorry - that's the rules. You lose. (Although, as further proof that the discussion has ended, see below.)

Shut the **** up, you ineffective old hippie! How retarded can you be?

Um...yeah. Maybe next time you can slip a 'mom' joke in there to really make your point? That'd be great.

There's no objective measure for what is a good TV show.

Actually, there is. That's what ratings are for. As I mentioned before, this one is doing very well, regardless of what you and other detractors here have to say about it.

Good Christ, no wonder your generation failed. For every hippie with a concept of progress, there were ten like you who just wanted to rail at the establishment, change things for no reason, and smoke pot.

Making assumptions based on my chosen screen name is just silly. You have absolutely no idea anything about me, my age or my decision to inhale or not.

Because the most powerful thing about The Simpsons, or Family Guy, or American Dad, or Justice League, or Samurai Champloo is all the action figures they're selling. Yeah. More people like the action figures than actually like the show. Right. [Sorry, if you couldn't tell, that was a little "sarcasim" for ya.]

Have you been out of your house anytime in the past 5 years? Have you seen how much Simpsons merchandise is out there? How about Family Guy, JLU, Turtles, Naruto, One Piece, or Samuai Champloo? Merchandising isn't just about action figures (sorry to upset your rather limited view of the world there champ) it's about product on the shelves and honestly, there's quite a bit of it out there right now.

That's about as effective as writing to a congressperson.

Have you tried either? I'd bet not.

[Binker]

You know what, we need to set up a chat and do, in a Politically Incorrect style, the love/like/dislike/hate relationship of The Batman.

With me, droogiedroogie2, hippie_hunter & hunter_hippie. And anyone else.

[droogiedroogie2]

Because it's about the evolution of a character - not the end result like TAS was. I know that understanding character development probably isn't your strong suit though, so I'll let this point go at that.Character development is changing your costume to battle a one-dimensional ice villain?

Batman hasn't ever used a flight pack or hang glider type of device in the comics? Um..wrong. No he pretty much just flies when he fights. Just straight up flies. No mechanical aid required. Dude just flies. That's cool for anime, not for Batman.

I sure must have missed that episode. Which one specifically was it? Maybe it was a crossover with The Flash? Quicksilver perhaps? No?It's pretty much just any time he fights. He moves far faster than any non-powered human could. Again, that's cool for anime, not for Batman.

Right. Batcycle, batplane, bat cuffs, batmobile, batarang, etc etc. Random gadgets galore - whether they're designed to sell toys or not, they're there. Starting to grab at straws here, aren't ya? The motives for creating those items are not something I'm going to tackle without research. However, I think it's safe to say that modern-day Batman (The Batman excluded, of course) doesn't just make up gadgets for toy-marketing purposes.

Colors and style change. What was common in the 60's was replaced by the 70's, 80's, 90's and today. Deal with it.The whole fighting-against-a-backdrop-of-color-so-you-don't-see-an-actual-fight idea is a hallmark of anime. While it appears sparingly in other forms, its home is anime and anime knockoffs.

Really? Have you been reading the comics recently? They're pretty flat, uninteresting and the character is anything but complex. Always with the fashionable trendy opinions. I'll bet you think The Simpsons rips off Family Guy too.

Depending on the artist, Batman's ears have always grown larger or smaller. Kelly Jones draws them HUGE. Should that become the standard by which every Batman artist is judged? No. It's called an artistic style. Something you, apparently, aren't familiar with. Look it up. We'll wait.I don't care how long they are, he's just supposed to actually have them.

And comics are a dying art form. The medium doesn't work in today's 'gotta have it now' society. As long as there's geeks, there will be comic books.

So, Batman should be an angst filled loner that doesn't get along with anyone - Gordon, Robin, Nightwing, Superman, WW - etc, right? Since that's currently what's going on in the comic, that's the direction the show should go?I was speaking more generally. Like, he should be dark, serious, and competent, as opposed to the character on TB, who's about as dark and serious as Adam West and can't keep control of his own utility belt.

Sounds like you have a problem with anime/manga in general. Maybe that's your problem rather than how good/bad The Batman really is. Anime, when it's done well, is an art form that I very much appreciate, much like Western-style animation. On the other hand, most of it fails to translate culturally, just as most Western animation fails to translate to Japanese culture. Those very few anime films/shows that are both well-done and universal in spirit, are among my favorite animation projects of all time (Vampire Hunter D, Mononoke, Samurai Champloo, Spirited Away, Akira.) I have much less respect for manga, generally, because it has the same problem as most standard anime does--it goes more for a look than for a cohesive story that supports that look.

An even bigger problem, however, comes in when someone tries to blend anime/manga with a pre-existing franchise that is very Western in spirit. The result, as seen in Star Wars manga adaptations and The Batman, is a mishmash of nonsensical garbage that is offensive to the intellect.

Then why download them at all? Just so that you can have something to complain about? Makes perfect sense to me...First they yell at me for *****ing about a show I don't watch regularly. Then they yell at me for watching a show I hate. Sounds like they're the ones just looking for something to ***** about.

Um...they're fictional characters. They aren't worth any more than the paper they're printed on. They can be made to do whatever the artist/writer wants them to do. That's what you aren't getting here. This version of The Batman isn't final. It'll change. Just enjoy it for what it is now OR stop watching and quit complaining. What DO you respect if you can't respect fiction and the creative process? Art, and the ability to appreciate it, is what separates us, in the end, from other animals. Why the **** are you alive if art is nothing more than a fictional creation to you? And no, I can't just ignore the show, because as long as this pathetic knockoff is on the air, there can't be a decent Batman show on at the same time. Good ol' Bat-embargo.

Not at all. Titans is retelling versions of classic Titans tales. What's wrong with that? George Perez-ish stories with an anime art style. Sounds like a good mix to me. (Just my opinion though.)Oh George Perez. How your legacy has been soiled by those too drug-addled to truly remember you.

And the debate ends there. Anytime one person has to be reduced to complaining about spelling mistakes, the discussion is officially ended. Sorry - that's the rules. You lose. (Although, as further proof that the discussion has ended, see below.)So it's cool to insult my intelligence and imply that I don't know what a word means, but when I remind you that you misspelled it, THAT'S when the debate has sunk to a new low? How's the view up there from your high horse?

Um...yeah. Maybe next time you can slip a 'mom' joke in there to really make your point? That'd be great. Your mom was great last night. She really made my point. I slipped it in her.

Actually, there is. That's what ratings are for. As I mentioned before, this one is doing very well, regardless of what you and other detractors here have to say about it. Oh, right, the old "It's good because it's popular" argument. I bet you listen to a lot of Nickelback. Because everyone else likes it, so it must be good.

Making assumptions based on my chosen screen name is just silly. You have absolutely no idea anything about me, my age or my decision to inhale or not. Well, you claim to be a whole lot older than me, with so much more experience than me, which is a typical claim made by my parents' generation. You appear to be taking on the persona of the average wannabe hippie from the 60s, the kind that never actually did anything, just ranted about how everything needs to change for no good reason, and hampered the progress of the real hippies that were trying to revolutionize society. And the way you've been arguing, it's pretty clear that you smoke way too much of the freakies. Look, I get high once in awhile, but you've smoked yourself stupid.

Have you been out of your house anytime in the past 5 years? Have you seen how much Simpsons merchandise is out there? How about Family Guy, JLU, Turtles, Naruto, One Piece, or Samuai Champloo? Merchandising isn't just about action figures (sorry to upset your rather limited view of the world there champ) it's about product on the shelves and honestly, there's quite a bit of it out there right now. First of all, I don't see why you would throw Naruto and One Piece in there. I was listing quality shows. Secondly, my point is that you could take all of that merchandise away and people would still watch the shows. People buy the product because they like the show. Whereas with the Batman, people watch the show because of its products.



Have you tried either? I'd bet not.Hope you didn't put money on it, because you lost if you did. I've written to all of the congressional representatives from my state and personally spoken at length with each of them. Unsurprisingly, government remained unresponsive to the concerns of the people. I'm also planning to speak with my cousin Michael Uslan about the possibility of making the Batman movies a little more in line with the comics canon. While I know he's very much a comics fan, I don't expect the attempt to be fruitful. You've got to protect your bottom line, and a more adaptive, less literal translation of the traditional Batman seems to work pretty well at the box office.

[The Spot]

I like the show, I watch it all the time when it comes on and I bought the season 1 DVD. :up:

[Binker]

Two things:

1:

Something tells me that once the show is done, and I watch all the episodes once more from thsoe DVD sets, I'm gonna look back and enjoy it and go "WTF was the problem?" I feel it on the bottom of my throat. Its gonna happebn.

2:

I think Bruce Timm likes this show. In interviews, Matsuda stated that he presented what the show was going to be and Timm came in and saw what it was. He liked it, gave pointers and that waa that. Plus, this show makes me think of another mixed and hugely successful Batman that is one of Timm's favorite Batman movies: Batman Forever.

I like the show, I watch it all the time when it comes on and I bought the season 1 DVD. :up:

Really? How is it, even the features, how is that "New Direction" documentary?

[The Spot]

Really? How is it, even the features, how is that "New Direction" documentary?

haven't gotten to it just yet, I'm on Q&A the last ep on disc one. It was great seeing the Bane ep, as I haven't seen it since it originally aired. :up:

[Binker]

When you see it, report it back here.

[The Spot]

Will do. :up:

[SHADOWBAT69]

the documentary sucks. Its very short and theres not alot of information that we didnt already know about.

[hippie_hunter]

You know what, we need to set up a chat and do, in a Politically Incorrect style, the love/like/dislike/hate relationship of The Batman.

With me, droogiedroogie2, hippie_hunter & hunter_hippie. And anyone else.

This entire forum is practically like this with the occasional hatur or lover on board.

I'll agree to a degree. They aren't the best stories every week, but I'd rather watch them than some of the other cr@p that's on tv nowdays. Ever seen 'my gym partner's a monkey'?
Touche

[jaydawg]

Two things:

1:

Something tells me that once the show is done, and I watch all the episodes once more from thsoe DVD sets, I'm gonna look back and enjoy it and go "WTF was the problem?" I feel it on the bottom of my throat. Its gonna happebn.

2:

I think Bruce Timm likes this show. In interviews, Matsuda stated that he presented what the show was going to be and Timm came in and saw what it was. He liked it, gave pointers and that waa that. Plus, this show makes me think of another mixed and hugely successful Batman that is one of Timm's favorite Batman movies: Batman Forever.



Really? How is it, even the features, how is that "New Direction" documentary?
Did Timm actually say he liked it? I highly doubt that considering in every interview when asked about "The Batman" or "Teen Titans" he always states "No comment."

[droogiedroogie2]

No, over at toonzone's Justice League Watchtower, he almost straight-up bashes them. He says "Thank God we didn't do the Batman anime project," or something like that, and he makes lots of snide comments about TT.

I think Dini does a lot of the same stuff.

[Binker]

Where is that link?

[droogiedroogie2]

http://jl.toonzone.net/

it's somewhere in there. maybe under "pre-season one."

[Binker]

Its not there. I couldn't find it.

[biggles2000uk]

didn't dini leave WB animation after he had an argument with them about this show. Basically telling them to stick it and this was goin to undo all the hard work him and Timm had done.

shows wb don't show loyalty

[Darthphere]

didn't dini leave WB animation after he had an argument with them about this show. Basically telling them to stick it and this was goin to undo all the hard work him and Timm had done.

shows wb don't show loyalty


The Wb keeps crap like One Tree Hill on the air. That should tell you a lot.

[TheGrayGhost]

Here is the real reason why people hate The Batman:

They don't hate it.

They like it in dark episodes like in Strange Minds for example or the DTV The Batman vs. Dracula.

They think they hate it because its "not like BTAS and the people who are making it are destroying it" and that ain't true. TB is meant to override the greatness that is BTAS and the people involve in TB not only love the show and are fans of it, but some worked on it (even TNBA).

The truth is: this show has a huge shadow on it: BTAS. Fans of BTAS think WB threw away BTAS and all its brillance that came from it, and that ain't the case. Shows like the rest of the DCAU (which TB is a DCAU) and animated realism from BTAS went into shows like today like X-Men: Evolution. Remember the cartoons before BTAS? How old and "grainy" they were, would you want that?

And BTAS nor the whole Timmverse aren't gone, you have those DVDs and they are remembered, like I said on how its animation inspired every show that came after it.

The truth is maybe that those TB-haters can't even let go or can't see that TB not only isn't , it doesn't have to be BTAS all over again. You can maybe say that there's nothing wrong except in their heads.

Since it debut the show has been getting mixed reviews, but we all know the truth: TB has the huge shadow of BTAS. And that's why people SAY they hate it. Some probably want TB to be like BTAS, and it doesn't have to be. Other are probably afraid that TB is replacing BTAS, and that ain't the case.

And people might think TB won't be dark to suit those fans, but except for the DTV which was dark, since its debut the show has become dark and maturing episode by episode.

A BTAS fan love this and so does me. Others too.

There is nothing wrong with this show. Just watch it and say to yourself: "It AIN'T replacing BTAS, it doesn't HAVE to be like BTAS, IT'S ITS OWN SHOW."

The Batman is not part of any continuity but it's own series which means it is not part of a DC Animated Universe. BTAS didn't became part of a DCAU until STAS was aired. Do you see what I mean?

Until there is a Superman (or other DC character) cartoon that is in continuity or linked to The Batman, TB will not be part of a DC Animated Universe.

It is also interesting to note that the term DCAU has become synonymous with Timmverse.

And my thoughts on The Batman...

I don't hate with a passion like some other fans, but I don't particularly like it either. The only decent thing I've seen to come out of that series is Batman Vs. Dracula. But even then, the movie was... well... nevermind.

[TheGrayGhost]

Batman is a hateful person. For the longest time he has hated Hal Jordan for the Paralax fiasco. He hates Green Arrow, Hawkman, Zatanna, and Ray Palmer for mindwiping him and Catwoman, only forgiving Black Canary for their actions (because he trusts her most likely due to her partnership with Oracle). A day doesn't go by where he dreams of killing the Joker by his own hand. He hates Lesile for withholding treatmen to the Spoiler intentionally. He hated Artemis for becomming Wonder Woman and refused to let her sit at Diana's seat in the JLA. He only fully trusts Batgirl, Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, the Huntress, Catwoman, Black Canary, Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Martian Manhunter. Batman these days is basically a douchebag.


I wouldn't say that he hates them, but distrusts them. Then again, I'm more of a DCAU Batman fan, so I wouldn't know too much about the matter.


The Aquaman fanboy in me is angry at you for liking the Superfriends


I wasn't old enough (in fact, I don't think I was born yet) to see Superfriends and I have yet to see an episode. Are you telling me that the reason why Aquaman is so hated is because of that show? Things are making much more sense.

I'm a semi-Aquaman fan and I've always wondered why he has such a bad rep.

[krpton2]

I hate him because i love supes.

[TIGER SHARK]

I love this toon. It's not the Batman I would like to see, which is the darker detective, but I have no problems watching it.

[hippie_hunter]

I wouldn't say that he hates them, but distrusts them. Then again, I'm more of a DCAU Batman fan, so I wouldn't know too much about the matter.
No he pretty much hates the people who mindwiped him. They violated his, Selina's, and many other's minds. What Lesile did was unforgiveable. He absolutely hates the Joker. And until Green Lantern #9, he hated Hal Jordan for trying to destroy the universe.



I wasn't old enough (in fact, I don't think I was born yet) to see Superfriends and I have yet to see an episode. Are you telling me that the reason why Aquaman is so hated is because of that show? Things are making much more sense.

I'm a semi-Aquaman fan and I've always wondered why he has such a bad rep.

Here's a preview on how Superfriends treated Aquaman, a bit exaggerated but a sum up of how Aquaman got his bad reputation:

http://aquamantrystostopmissile.ytmnd.com/

[Morgoth]

It's a pretty good show, not as good as Batman: TAS but so what? The fight scenes are much better. Batman's movements are also much more acrobatic, which I like.The show's a horrible toy commercial and an insult to Batman, right when Batman gets his respect back they throw this crap at us!:mad:

[hunter_hippie]

The show's a horrible toy commercial and an insult to Batman, right when Batman gets his respect back they throw this crap at us!:mad:

Um...yeah. Thanks for coming into a thread and posting without reading any of what's come before your post. (FYI, we've already covered your arguement on a previous page. ALL cartoons are half hour advertisements for toys. Get over it.)

[Eric_Draven83]

Just wanted to give kudos to hippie_hunter. Why is it that most of these conversations get out of hand? Especially in regards to "The Batman." Just so it's out there, I'm 23yrs. old (as if that really matters anyways) and I also grew up w/Batman: The Animated Series. I own all the volumes and am looking forward to JL & BB next week. To be completely honest, I LOVE the Timmverse. Imo, there's just nothing greater. The Batman, however isn't aimed at my age group. I had my time. As stated earlier, the Timmverse isn't gone, it's cemented itself in both DC and animation HISTORY.

I wish the Timmverse wasn't mistreated by CN and WB, but I'm certainly glad that universe expanded into what it is today. C'mon, '92-'06 is a Damn good run. Let's hand it over to the kids. Let's introduce the new generation to Batman. I've read comments here saying that this is the WRONG way to introduce a new generation to Batman. Really? and Adam West's camp-fest WAS??? Give me a break. You know, the re-runs of the 60's Batman tv show was my first glimpse of the Dark Knight. In spite of the silliness, I grew to like the different adaptations of Batman. Everything from the comics, to cartoons, movies, etc. Hell, if I was able to discover the Legend that is Batman practically on my own, so can this generation of viewers.

All it takes is ONE show to get kids attention. They'll stumble on The Dark Knight Returns, they'll want to see ALL the Batman movies released before their time, they'll want to see the Timmverse. Give them some damn credit and move on. We've got hours upon hours of 'toons under our utility belts preserved on DVD (w/more to come), would it kill you to envision something that DOESN'T belong to you concerning Batman?

I will admit, The Batman isn't the greatest interpretation of the caped crusader, but I'm OK with that. I've found it to be enjoyable/entertaining. Just because I enjoy it, doesn't make me a mindless individual either. I'm simply content w/what TIMM invested his time in (all of us), and am glad the focus is being put on a new generation of Bat-fans. Oh, and YES, Batman will always be a commercial property because the character is such a HUGE part of pop culture...much like Supes. Wherever there is a movie/tv show, there will be toys, deal with it. We made these heroes part of Americana. We are responsible for this character's success (not excluding older fans). You can't sit here and tell me that none of you have EVER boughten movie/tv show based action figures/t-shirts/pj's/etc. It's pointless to sit here and complain that The Batman is a commercial for toys. He-Man or Ninja Turtles anyone?

To those who do enjoy this show: Continue enjoying it! Have fun w/it. IF you're new to the world of the dark knight, go out and read up on The Batman. Tell your friends about the comics. Catch up on the older movies and serials. Have FUN. Also to all of you "The Batman" lovers, thanks for convincing me to check out this show! I'm actually off to buy the Season 1 dvd in a few :up:

[hunter_hippie]

Draven, I think that was quite possibly one of the best posts in this entire forum. Thank you.

[Rowen]

i agree, the thing that bothers me is not the kiddi demograhpic where alot of these superhero shows are headed, but when we the fans get cut of the super hero franchises.

example: peter & laird, creators of the ninja turtles, are producing a season of the new tmnt, thats aiming at the younger demographic. but thier also giving us fans the continuation of season 4 witch turns into season 5 on dvd.

so that means we the fans are not left out. we can continue having are dark, gritty, emotional, fun, epic stories tied to the story arc's on dvd.
while the kids get thier little fun season.

agian alot of compainies, artist, writers, & execs need to do this.

[Katsuro]

Um...yeah. Thanks for coming into a thread and posting without reading any of what's come before your post. (FYI, we've already covered your arguement on a previous page. ALL cartoons are half hour advertisements for toys. Get over it.)

Yeah, all cartoons. Like Family Guy, as soon as i saw the episode where James Woods guest starred, I know i had to go out and get my James Woods in Family Guy action figure. Right? Or like when Quagmire banged Cleavelands wife, the only reason they had that episode was so they could have the Quagmire banging Cleavland's wife figure. Right? Right?

[droogiedroogie2]

Yeah, all cartoons. Like Family Guy, as soon as i saw the episode where James Woods guest starred, I know i had to go out and get my James Woods in Family Guy action figure. Right? Or like when Quagmire banged Cleavelands wife, the only reason they had that episode was so they could have the Quagmire banging Cleavland's wife figure. Right? Right?Well I think he's talking about kids' cartoons, but I still disagree with the statement. Batman: The Animated Series existed to tell a story, and never served the toy industry. If you wanted to make some outrageous Batman Lava Suit action figure, you couldn't expect it to be in BTAS. You just had to make it, regardless of it being in the show or not. The Batman, no the other hand, seems designed, storywise, to introduce new toys. The story is subservient to the toy market.

[Eric_Draven83]

Draven, I think that was quite possibly one of the best posts in this entire forum. Thank you.

No, no, no...Thank you.

Btw, Rowen...The creators of the Ninja Turtles are Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird. Both of which are NOT working together on the new show. I'm not too sure on the specifics, but they're just not working together on either the show or the Mirage comics. Though, Laird never ruled out re-teaming w/Eastman on future issues. For some reason, the Turtles work better when aimed at kids. I'm not sure why that is, but it just works. I've been watching the new show ever since it started and it's simply put, one of the BEST animated shows out right now.

It's actually funny thinking about it, because I never thought my brother and I would be sitting in front of the tube on saturday mornings (again) watching Ninja Turtles...a little over a Decade later. At least this time around, Laird has input on the show (Creative consultant). It's nice to see his work respected. Even though this show is aimed at kids, it's still amazing to me, to see what they can get away with nowadays. It's definately a lot darker and grittier than the 80's toon. And, how about what happened to the Shredder during the 1st or 2nd season? lol...WOW, I NEVER thought I'd see that on a saturday morning cartoon.

droogie, Batman:TAS never served the toy industry? I seem to remember seeing the shelves stocked to the ceiling w/various Batman figures. Some in different suits, some in Mech-Gear, some variants, etc. Most of the figures based on "The Batman", aren't shown in the series. I just saw the Mr. Freeze episode of the new series, but his "anti-freeze" suit used in the show doesn't quite match up w/the figure. I also remember several variations of Terry Mcguiness (Batman Beyond) and HIS bat-suit when that show was popular. We're not arguing that The Batman is Better than TAS, but it's amusing to me that you think these variations of the Bat-Suit is something that was spawned ONLY from "The Batman."

Please. I'm no toy expert, but I've purchased many figures over the years and I KNOW that no matter what incarnation of Batman the figures were based on, the suit was Bastardized. Be it "Batman '89", "Batman Returns", etc....each incarnation spawned action figures that were in some form or another, a cash cow. Like it or not. It's nothing new and it'll continue on through ANY line of Batman figures. Look at the "Begins" line of figures for god sakes. Not as many, but even still there are variations of the bat-suit. It's just a lot easier to pick on The Batman because it's not as good as TAS, right? We were suckered into buying "Generic Suit Batman" long before this generation.

On the different costumes used in The Batman: It could be seen as silly to people in my age group. I know Batman would never have an arctic chill suit at the ready for Mr. Freeze,lol. But, I actually thought that suit design was neat. It was fun. Definately not something Batman would invest time in, but from a design standpoint it was interesting. I remember as a child always wanting the Original suit from whatever series the toys were based on. I always made sure to get the original suit first and foremost. I remember looking into the different suits and seeing what else the Dark Knight had in his arsenal. I suppose it was because my imagination went nuts and wondered, "Gee, what would batman do if he were frozen? how would he get out??? How would he avoid poison darts???" lol. Tons of questions, which were sometimes answered by alternate suits designed specifcally for the figure line. SO, you see...these figures may seem useless to us (and for the most part...ARE), but to children they are fun. They DON'T buy ever single figure in the line (that's what Marvel Legend collector's do), and they know what's stupid and what may very well be a nice addition to their collections. That being said, give them some credit.

The Batman is CLEARLY not my Batman, nor was it ever meant to be. But, I enjoy it and appreciate it for what it is.

[hippie_hunter]

Mr. Draven, from what I have read, your posts are 100% true. My bizarro counterpart is right, the two posts you have typed are indeed the best ones here.

[Darthphere]

Mr. Draven, from what I have read, your posts are 100% true. My bizarro counterpart is right, the two posts you have typed are indeed the best ones here.


False, the best post was my earlier one wehre I was like OMG WTF!!111! THE BatMAN IZ TEH SUXXORZZ!!11!:up:

[Rowen]

No, no, no...Thank you.

Btw, Rowen...The creators of the Ninja Turtles are Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird. Both of which are NOT working together on the new show. I'm not too sure on the specifics, but they're just not working together on either the show or the Mirage comics. Though, Laird never ruled out re-teaming w/Eastman on future issues. For some reason, the Turtles work better when aimed at kids. I'm not sure why that is, but it just works. I've been watching the new show ever since it started and it's simply put, one of the BEST animated shows out right now.

I thought i had thier names right, but thanks for the clear up.

[hunter_hippie]

Yeah, all cartoons. Like Family Guy, as soon as i saw the episode where James Woods guest starred, I know i had to go out and get my James Woods in Family Guy action figure. Right? Or like when Quagmire banged Cleavelands wife, the only reason they had that episode was so they could have the Quagmire banging Cleavland's wife figure. Right? Right?

I don't know if a James Woods fig is in the works, but there are Family Guy figures out. As to Quagmire & the wife, have you seen the Lois & Peter 'night time' two pack where they're in their S&M gear? Not too far removed from Quagmire & the Mrs.

There's also Family Guy bobble heads, t-shirts, a video game, baby clothes, etc, so, yes, Family Guy is just as guilty as The Batman when it comes to merchandising.

[Darthphere]

I don't know if a James Woods fig is in the works, but there are Family Guy figures out. As to Quagmire & the wife, have you seen the Lois & Peter 'night time' two pack where they're in their S&M gear? Not too far removed from Quagmire & the Mrs.

There's also Family Guy bobble heads, t-shirts, a video game, baby clothes, etc, so, yes, Family Guy is just as guilty as The Batman when it comes to merchandising.


I think the question hes offering is if Family Guy's sole purpose to sell merchandise like The Batman and other animation is said to be for.

[Eric_Draven83]

I think the question hes offering is if Family Guy's sole purpose to sell merchandise like The Batman and other animation is said to be for.

The Family Guy's (much like The Batman's), sole purpose is NOT to sell toys. What we have here is a case of TOY COMPANIES knowing that there's a market out there (those of us who helped get Family Guy back on the air) that are willing to shell out $7-$25 for figures of Peter and his wife in S&M gear. There's a difference. Batman toys are a given. Infact, the words "Batman" & "toys" go together like peas and carrots. There's just NO seperating the two. Both of whice are (in a sense) capitalizing or taking advantage of consumers. However, there are those of us who know what to and what not to waste our money on :up:

Jesus, why do they show commercials during the Super Bowl? Why are Replica NBA Jersey's sold in sports stores for $50-$200??? Why do comics run Ads every friggin' 3-4 pages?? Why is there product placement in super hero movies? C'mon guys. Honestly. I think the reasoning behind disliking The Batman goes a little bit further than it being a "Toy Advertisement." I'd like to discuss what that is because, frankly I think there are some of us who've said all that needed to be said concerning Batman & Toys.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The only reason most Bat fans hate THE BATMAN is because BTAS existed.

Pretty good reason if you ask me.

[hunter_hippie]

The only reason most Bat fans hate THE BATMAN is because BTAS existed.

Pretty good reason if you ask me.

That's like saying that fans of U.S. Hockey should hate all Olympic teams since 1980, since they set the bar when they won the gold medal. (The U.S. previously had won in 1960 - so, all the teams between 1960 and 1980 sucked?) :confused:

Just because the bar has been set high in the past, doesn't mean that future attempts shouldn't be made. They should be able to stand on their own merits without being compared to what's happened previously. Unfortunately, I've found it's the short sighted/closed minded members of society who can't let the past go and live in the present. It must be hard, being negative about something you supposedly 'love' so much.

[Darthphere]

That's like saying that fans of U.S. Hockey should hate all Olympic teams since 1980, since they set the bar when they won the gold medal. (The U.S. previously had won in 1960 - so, all the teams between 1960 and 1980 sucked?) :confused:

Just because the bar has been set high in the past, doesn't mean that future attempts shouldn't be made. They should be able to stand on their own merits without being compared to what's happened previously. Unfortunately, I've found it's the short sighted/closed minded members of society who can't let the past go and live in the present. It must be hard, being negative about something you supposedly 'love' so much.


Do you like remakes on movies? Its pretty much the same argument, why do something again if its already been done much better? Its not a we cant accept change thing its we dont accept change when its not necessary. At least thats what i think. But hey if you like The Batman more power to you, im not stopping anyone from enjoying the show. Hell I showe my 7 year old nephew The Batman and the kid loves it, havent gotten around to showing him BTAS.

[hippie_hunter]

The only reason most Bat fans hate THE BATMAN is because BTAS existed.

Pretty good reason if you ask me.

No, BTAS just really set the bar really high for a Batman cartoon. Most people hate The Batman because it is not set for an older demographic.

[Katsuro]

The only reason most Bat fans hate THE BATMAN is because BTAS existed.

Pretty good reason if you ask me.

It's not my reason. My reasons are:

-Terrible animation. Seriously, i'm sick of this anime crap infecting everything, now it's in Batman? He looks more like Jackie Chan than Bruce Wayne. The costume's also terrible, he has no ears. And that cape? His cape is supposed to be scalloped like bats wings, not spikey. Look at him when his cape is outstretched, does that resemble a bats wings at all?

-Batmans too fast. The appeal of Batman for me was always that he was heavily grounded in reality. Sure, he had a few superpowered villains, but who he was and what he could do was always kept pretty realistic. In this show, he's practically the Flash. A villain punches, and bam! Batmans on the other side of him. Batman shouldn't move that fast

-It's aimed at kids. These days they censor practically everything. They cant say the word "kill", they cant even have real guns! What is it i see the cops on this show using? they look like some kind of laser pistol. I dont rmemeber ever seeing one fired, but i've seen them holding them, and my Nerf gun looks more realistic than those do.

There are other reasons, but those are my big ones. I hate this show, and hate the fact that it's tainting a new generations image of Batman, just like the 60s series did. I'm only glad Nolans film exist to counterbalance that and show the general public that Batman's not just for kids, and that he doesn't need a special suit or gadget for every villain he fights.

[Binker]

Maybe the guns in TB:
http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/episodes/03cobblepot/03.jpg

was based on this:
http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hkgun9eu.gif

[GreatWhiteShark]

I love this cartoon. :up: Any idea when new episodes will show?

[DarKush]

The Batman is all right, but it seriously pales in comparison to B:TAS and Batman Beyond.

My nitpicks:
-Don't care for the animation style. B:TAS made a statement with the Art Deco look. TB is just following trends.
-Don't like the changes to the villians. The only villian appearance change that I liked was Bane. I really liked the black uniform and mask, even the grotesque red skinned Venomized form. I don't get the change in Mr. Freeze. Also don't like the Riddler, Penguin, or Joker. Poison Ivy is all right. I can understand the reasoning for the change in Clayface's origin, but it doesn't do anything for me.
-Ellen Yin & Batgirl are fine with me. I sort of like how they went with Batgirl instead of Robin as Batman's partner.

[Ronny Shade]

Ive only seen the one ep with Freeze in it but he totally sucked.

and so does the Joker.

but I dont watch it often.

[hunter_hippie]

I love this cartoon. :up: Any idea when new episodes will show?

May sweeps.

[antonydelfini]

it aint baman

[trustyside-kick]

Do not really like the character re-vamps. That is one of the main things that bother me.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The Batman=75% awful, 20% decent and 5 % terrible.

[dcbmp]

The Batman sucks. Why?

1. The guns. It reminds me of the days when the FCC said you couldn't show "real" guns, and Spider-Man, X-Men, etc. ALL had to comply. Hence NYPD officers carrying wierd Buck Rodgers like weapons. Same with TB.

2. Since when is Bruce "hip" and like Jackie Chan?

3. Puns.

4. Mr Freeze. BTAS's Freeze was THE best cartoon VILLIAN EVER. Compelling, better than the comic version, one of the few villians you cared about. TB's Mr. Freeze is a joke who says "have an ice day"

5. Since when are Batman's batarangs half his size.

6. Great animation instead of good plots. Example. Which did you like better? The Matrix (***** plot with some but not great fight scenes) or The Matrix Revolutions(Awesome fight scenes 'Neo vs agents, car chase, etc......horrible plot)?

[dcbmp]

So, thanks to Hippie_Hunter, we've proven that The Batman and JLU are in the same universe! Thanks Hippie! :up: You rock!
No, they're not. Anyone can see that. The BTAS, STAS, TNBA, BB, JLU verse is SEPERATE from the TB verse, the Superfriends verse, etc. Think of it as earth's 616, 615, etc.

[trustyside-kick]

Just wanted to give kudos to hippie_hunter. Why is it that most of these conversations get out of hand? Especially in regards to "The Batman." Just so it's out there, I'm 23yrs. old (as if that really matters anyways) and I also grew up w/Batman: The Animated Series. I own all the volumes and am looking forward to JL & BB next week. To be completely honest, I LOVE the Timmverse. Imo, there's just nothing greater. The Batman, however isn't aimed at my age group. I had my time. As stated earlier, the Timmverse isn't gone, it's cemented itself in both DC and animation HISTORY.

I wish the Timmverse wasn't mistreated by CN and WB, but I'm certainly glad that universe expanded into what it is today. C'mon, '92-'06 is a Damn good run. Let's hand it over to the kids. Let's introduce the new generation to Batman. I've read comments here saying that this is the WRONG way to introduce a new generation to Batman. Really? and Adam West's camp-fest WAS??? Give me a break. You know, the re-runs of the 60's Batman tv show was my first glimpse of the Dark Knight. In spite of the silliness, I grew to like the different adaptations of Batman. Everything from the comics, to cartoons, movies, etc. Hell, if I was able to discover the Legend that is Batman practically on my own, so can this generation of viewers.

All it takes is ONE show to get kids attention. They'll stumble on The Dark Knight Returns, they'll want to see ALL the Batman movies released before their time, they'll want to see the Timmverse. Give them some damn credit and move on. We've got hours upon hours of 'toons under our utility belts preserved on DVD (w/more to come), would it kill you to envision something that DOESN'T belong to you concerning Batman?

I will admit, The Batman isn't the greatest interpretation of the caped crusader, but I'm OK with that. I've found it to be enjoyable/entertaining. Just because I enjoy it, doesn't make me a mindless individual either. I'm simply content w/what TIMM invested his time in (all of us), and am glad the focus is being put on a new generation of Bat-fans. Oh, and YES, Batman will always be a commercial property because the character is such a HUGE part of pop culture...much like Supes. Wherever there is a movie/tv show, there will be toys, deal with it. We made these heroes part of Americana. We are responsible for this character's success (not excluding older fans). You can't sit here and tell me that none of you have EVER boughten movie/tv show based action figures/t-shirts/pj's/etc. It's pointless to sit here and complain that The Batman is a commercial for toys. He-Man or Ninja Turtles anyone?

To those who do enjoy this show: Continue enjoying it! Have fun w/it. IF you're new to the world of the dark knight, go out and read up on The Batman. Tell your friends about the comics. Catch up on the older movies and serials. Have FUN. Also to all of you "The Batman" lovers, thanks for convincing me to check out this show! I'm actually off to buy the Season 1 dvd in a few :up:

You changed my views on this show. You made a crapload of good points. It isn't the Batman we grew up with and all. Not saying I like the show, but now I am sorry for ever insulting it in other threads.

[MangleBoP]

A LOT of things are... less than perfect about "The Batman", but they do have a really neat take on Mr.Freeze. His retatarded ice puns aside, his origin, powers, & look are all pretty "cool".:cool: :up:

[Silver Sable]

Mr.Freeze does indeed look good and so does Killer Croc

[Darthphere]

A LOT of things are... less than perfect about "The Batman", but they do have a really neat take on Mr.Freeze.


A broing one to say the least.

[MangleBoP]

A broing one to say the least.
Really? So you think implying that Victor Freis and Joe Chill are one and the same is "boring"?

[Darthphere]

Really? So you think implying that Victor Freis and Joe Chill are one and the same is "boring"?


I think Victor Fries as random bank robber with powers is a boring concept.

[MangleBoP]

I think Victor Fries as random bank robber with powers is a boring concept.
Now that he has powers, his schemes are a bit...grander.

[hippie_hunter]

Now that he has powers, his schemes are a bit...grander.

But that is not the point of Freeze, he is supposed to be a villain that is tragic and is a villain the viewer is supposed to sympathise for. You don't sympathise for a common thug bank robber :o

[MangleBoP]

But that is not the point of Freeze, he is supposed to be a villain that is tragic and is a villain the viewer is supposed to sympathise for. You don't sympathise for a common thug bank robber :o
True, and that is one of "The Batman"'s many flaws: poor charecterization. However, Mr.Freeze didn't really have an origin in the comics until B:TAS, so the change only bothers me a little.

[trustyside-kick]

Mr.Freeze does indeed look good and so does Killer Croc

Killer Croc looks like a dinosuar in The Batman. Better design then BTAS and TNBAS I guess. I really disliked the BTAS Croc...and he was light blue too. Although...I guess you could take into account that his mutation was not as severe at first.

[jaydawg]

So I guess a gray tone means light blue these days.