Val Kilmer's Batman

[SA1984]

Hi I'm new to the HYPE. Autographs later :p
Anyways regarding our favourite dark knight on celluloid, i love the **** outta B'89, don't care what anyone says it ROCKED. BR is awesome & pretty solid & i actually really loved parts of BF. In parts it was fantastic but in some parts it was a little...umm...gay. but for the most part it was good.
then came June 1997 & i would rather eat my own feet after a 3 mile run rather than sit through that crock of **** again.
Then BB last year & **** me sideways & call me Betty, that film owned Spiderman's spandex arse & made Marvel it's collective biznitch once & 4 all.
yeah as u can tell i liked it.

so let's time travel back 2 1992...
picture it, Keaton is adamant & does not want 2 don cape & cowl again. What if Val Kilmer had been in BR?
I rated kilmer's performance in forever quite highly, i think he would have been fantastic opposite michelle pfeiffer in BR.
What y'all think? ( no childish posts please)

[Dr. Fate]

Batman Forever had its flaws, but I think Val Kilmer was a good Batman/Bruce Wayne. He could have been the undisputed king of all Batmen if he'd just had a more serious film surrounding him. It would have been interesting to have seen him facing off against Jack Nicholson in the original film and then see him with the lovely Michelle Pfeiffer in #2, and who knows, he may have redeemed Batman & Robin. Well, probably not.

Can you imagine Val Kilmer as Harvey Dent/Two-Face?

Off record, has anyone seen Joel Schumacher's non-Batman films - Flatliners, Time To Kill, The Client, etc?

[SHADOWBAT69]

i just dont see Kilmer with the broodiness that Keaton had that made that film work. Keaton had a presence about him in Returns and he interacted with the rest of the cast perfectly. All the actors in returns "clicked". And no one can touch Keatons glare in that cowl.

[ZER0C00L]

i just dont see Kilmer with the broodiness that Keaton had that made that film work. Keaton had a presence about him in Returns and he interacted with the rest of the cast perfectly. All the actors in returns "clicked". And no one can touch Keatons glare in that cowl.

exactly:o:up:

[SA1984]

true, Keaton was THE showstoppa as Bats, but i think Kilmer could have performed well in BR. the scene in forever where he speaks calmly 2 Dick while discouraging him from becoming Robin, think it goes like this:

Bruce :So you're willing to take a life? then it will happen like this. you make the kill. but your pain doesn't end with 2 Face, you go on looking for another face, & another, & another, until 1 horrible morning you wake up & realise that revenge has become your life

Dick:you wouldn't understand, your parents weren't killed by a madman.

Bruce: Yes they were.

This scene is very well executed & IMO quite underrated. watch the scene & u will know what i mean when i say that it has a brooding similarity to the whole classic 'Things change' exchange between Penguin & Bats in BR. I could vision Kilmer delivering that scene & it would have been cool 2 see, though don't get me wrong Keaton ****ing ruled

[Two-Face]

I liked Val Kilmer as Batman/Bruce Wayne but the script what was written was ok if given decent script I think Kilmer would been awesome as Dark Knight.

[Batman911]

yes kilmer was a great batman. To bad he was with joel though.

[Silver Sable]

He played an ok Batman to me

[BK]

Kilmer was definitely just sub-par with his portrayal of Batman. I just don't think there was anything for him to really do in that costume.

However, I think he absolutely shined as Bruce Wayne. I have no doubt that if Kilmer was in the first two, he probably would've done a better representation of Bruce and Batman (the latter being a bit questionable). But like someone mentioned earlier, the scene with him talking to Dick about Two-Face perfectly captured Bruce's understanding of the kid's situation, and how he doesn't anyone else to experience the pain that he has already dealt. I also think Kilmer brilliantly evoked the character's mysteriousness without saying a single word, but through his expressions (like Keaton also did). You could just watch him and know that there's something going on inside his head, but you don't know what. I loved that. :up:

[Jack Napier]

I think it was a tough job to follow Michael Keaton. What I love about Keaton as Batman/Bruce Wayne (and this has been mentioned by Burton) is how contemplative he looks. As Bruce Wayne, he always seems to be thinking about things, trying to figure himself out. I would imagine Bruce Wayne would have quite a lot of frustrated thought, and Keaton was great at pulling that off.

Bale has that quality, but he has this determination quality that translated onscreen. You'd hear about him losing 60 pounds for "The Machinist" and hearing about how he got in shape for these movies preceding "Batman Begins" and you think, "Okay, I totally believe he's capable of going that far to become Batman". Christian Bale's drive as an actor made his Batman believeable and he was great.

"Batman Forever", while not perfect, can still be enjoyed. The intention to make a good movie was intact, and it's purpose wasn't just a cash-in through marketing toys. Kilmer was a good Batman, but he followed Michael Keaton and that's got to be a tough thing to do.

[Ronny Shade]

Can you imagine Val Kilmer as Harvey Dent/Two-Face?


I can! Even in a schumacher film...if he went the Lost Boys route instead of what he actually did with Batman, Kilmer couldve been an awesome Dent.

[El Payaso]

I liked Val Kilmer as Batman/Bruce Wayne but the script what was written was ok if given decent script I think Kilmer would been awesome as Dark Knight.

How a better script would have prevented Kilmer to do a wooden flavourless acting?

[DACrowe]

Well Kilmer did play the flamboyant playboy better but Burton never wanted to show him as a flamboyant playboy, but more of a shadowy neurotic and enigmatic one who quietly takes his conquests (at least in the first where her zeros in on Vicky Vale) kind of like a less possessive Howard Hughes.

However to the credit of schumaucher he brought Bruce Wayne into the light as a public figure, but one with an annoying papparazzi in it. However, outside of his scenes with Dick he seemed to just deliver his lines and his Batman was horrible with no intensity. His best Batman scene (the panel-by-panel recreation of coming out of the fire) looked cool because of the cinematography and the suit and not his performance. His Batman was kind of stale.


Keaton was much better. But then again Kilmer hated Schumaucher and hated this film so maybe he would not have been so wooden in a Burton movie, however I am perfectly happy and not risking it as we got to see Keaton do it again. I really would have rather see Keaton do it a third time too and not see Kilmer in the part, but alas it was not meant to be. Plus he had better chemistry with Catwoman than I think Kilmer might have had.

[Two-Face]

How a better script would have prevented Kilmer to do a wooden flavourless acting?


That's your ****ing opinion if he sucked for you but in my opinion he would have been great as Dark Knight if given descent script to act with.:up:

[El Payaso]

Iyt's not my opinion, it's a queastion. I want to know why so I can see what's the point behind your "****ing opinion" and see if you have some knowledge about acting or just about typing.

[El Payaso]

Edit

[Two-Face]

Iyt's not my opinion, it's a queastion. I want to know why so I can see what's the point behind your "****ing opinion" and see if you have some knowledge about acting or just about typing.

1. You should look at your own grammar and spelling before you judge a person while yourself has a problem.

2. I think Val Kilmer can act and his batman voice and different Bruce voice was great (unlike Clooney) he had the height sure hair colour wasn't right.


3. Why the attack?? I don't have to agree with you.

[El Payaso]

1. You should look at your own grammar and spelling before you judge a person while yourself has a problem.

Ah yes. So I spelt it wrong. Awesome deal. That doesn't make me any less right or wrong.

2. I think Val Kilmer can act and his batman voice and different Bruce voice was great (unlike Clooney) he had the height sure hair colour wasn't right.

Yes, you're right. My question was about how the script would fix anyone's acting.

3. Why the attack?? I don't have to agree with you.

I made a question and you jumped up talking about " ****ing opinions". I ask YOU, why the attack?

[Kevin Roegele]

I feel Kilmer's only problem as Batman was his lack of agression. He had everything else; the icy glare, the presence, you could see he felt sympathy and empathy for the supervillains even as he tried to take them out. He looked like he was thinking all the time, outwitting his opponents, using logic to get out of traps - that was pure Batman.


LOL, anyone who hasn't actually watched Forever properly and assumes it just the same camp nonsense as the following film just needs to check out Kilmer's troubled gaze throughout the film.

http://www.nicolekidmanunited.com/NicoleKidmanFilmography/BatmanForever/FilmoBatmanForever_L14.jpg

[The Last Meatbag]

The Forever suit was actually one of my favoites, and if it weren't for some of the other cast members and the crappy script, I would've enjoyed it a hell of a lot more. I mean they made Two Face a giggling little idiot. Half of his face is ****ing melted! If I were Dent I wouldn't constantly be giggling. Kilmer could have been a great Batman if he was directed better and the script was better

[Kevin Roegele]

The Forever suit was actually one of my favoites, and if it weren't for some of the other cast members and the crappy script, I would've enjoyed it a hell of a lot more. I mean they made Two Face a giggling little idiot. Half of his face is ****ing melted! If I were Dent I wouldn't constantly be giggling. Kilmer could have been a great Batman if he was directed better and the script was better

Actually the Forever script is superb. They should use it in screenwriting courses.

[Brian Braddock]

The Forever suit was actually one of my favoites, and if it weren't for some of the other cast members and the crappy script, I would've enjoyed it a hell of a lot more. I mean they made Two Face a giggling little idiot. Half of his face is ****ing melted! If I were Dent I wouldn't constantly be giggling. Kilmer could have been a great Batman if he was directed better and the script was better

The Forever suit was one of my faves as well - minus the nipples of course!! Kilmer is a great actor and had a lot of potential to be a great Bats/Bruce Wayne - the script allowed glimpses only though. As somebody posted before - it would have been interesting to see what Kilmer would have made with the role if he were in the 1st 2 films (and vice versa - Keaton in Forever anyone?)

[Kevin Roegele]

Keaton in Forever anyone?

No thanks.

[Palpadious]

Actually the Forever script is superb. They should use it in screenwriting courses.

You must be joking

[El Payaso]

He has been joking throughout all this thread

[Kevin Roegele]

You must be joking

Nope. I know you won't, but I suggest you actually read the script by Lee and Janet-Scott Batchelor, or atleast the novelisation by Peter David. A great script doesn't mean the film itself will be great.

You know, in the script it doesn't say, "Jim Carrey be silly here," or "neon lights and giant naked male torso statue here."

[White_Howling]

Kilmers batman was pretty good.. but the surrounding cast.. now thats another story

[Dr. Fate]

Looking back on the documentaries of the Batman anthology, Tim Burton keeps mentioning that he felt he had to cast Michael Keaton in part because Keaton wasn't an "obvious choice", not tall, muscular, semi-muscular or even stocky, not dashingly handsome, not square jawed... Tim kept going on and on about how those big muscle types don't need the theatrical effect of looking like a giant bat in order to frighten enemies, something someone of Keaton's size apparently needs. So now I try to imagine what it might have been like, Burton working with Kilmer, a more "obvious" choice...

TIM BURTON: "Okay Val, you're looking too tall in this scene, I want you to slouch and shrug your shoulders so you don't look as imposing."
VAL KILMER: "Tim, I can't help how God built me. Besides, shouldn't Batman be im-"
BURTON: "Shut up, it's my film, it's my vision. Also, we need to do something about that jaw of yours, it's too square."

KILMER: "It's the jaw that God gave me, Tim."

BURTON: "Shut up. Also, you're looking too handsome out of costume, so we're gonna have to do something with the hairstylists and the make up people to make you less attractive."

KILMER: "But Tim, with all due respect and modesty, shouldn't Bruce Wayne be-"

BURTON: "Shut up."

Then we get Burton in interviews about working with Val Kilmer...

TIM BURTON: "I never liked the decision to cast Val Kilmer as Batman. To me, Val never really inhabited the character. I always felt that Val was too obvious. He's tall, he's muscular, he's got matinee idol good looks, I just never felt that he needed to wear a bat-suit to frighten people. A guy like Val Kilmer doesn't need the theatrical effect of looking like a giant bat in order to frighten people. It really threw off my vision and-" [suddenly, the hands of Val Kilmer appear and grab Tim from behind, dragging him away, and we hear Tim screaming as he is dragged away]

[Kevin Roegele]

Looking back on the documentaries of the Batman anthology, Tim Burton keeps mentioning that he felt he had to cast Michael Keaton in part because Keaton wasn't an "obvious choice", not tall, muscular, semi-muscular or even stocky, not dashingly handsome, not square jawed... Tim kept going on and on about how those big muscle types don't need the theatrical effect of looking like a giant bat in order to frighten enemies, something someone of Keaton's size apparently needs. So now I try to imagine what it might have been like, Burton working with Kilmer, a more "obvious" choice...

TIM BURTON: "Okay Val, you're looking too tall in this scene, I want you to slouch and shrug your shoulders so you don't look as imposing."
VAL KILMER: "Tim, I can't help how God built me. Besides, shouldn't Batman be im-"
BURTON: "Shut up, it's my film, it's my vision. Also, we need to do something about that jaw of yours, it's too square."

KILMER: "It's the jaw that God gave me, Tim."

BURTON: "Shut up. Also, you're looking too handsome out of costume, so we're gonna have to do something with the hairstylists and the make up people to make you less attractive."

KILMER: "But Tim, with all due respect and modesty, shouldn't Bruce Wayne be-"

BURTON: "Shut up."

Then we get Burton in interviews about working with Val Kilmer...

TIM BURTON: "I never liked the decision to cast Val Kilmer as Batman. To me, Val never really inhabited the character. I always felt that Val was too obvious. He's tall, he's muscular, he's got matinee idol good looks, I just never felt that he needed to wear a bat-suit to frighten people. A guy like Val Kilmer doesn't need the theatrical effect of looking like a giant bat in order to frighten people. It really threw off my vision and-" [suddenly, the hands of Val Kilmer appear and grab Tim from behind, dragging him away, and we hear Tim screaming as he is dragged away]

LOL.

Burton: O'Donnell, you know I HATE Robin, so I naturally hate you for being cast as Robin.

O'Donnell: But....

Burton: Shut up.

Kilmer: Oh, Timmy, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind. Hey Timmy!

O'Donnell: Hey Timmy!

Tommy Lee-Jones: Oh Timmy, what a pity, you don't understand, you take me by the heart, you take me by the hand. Oh Timmy You're so pretty, cant you understand? Its guys like you Mickey...

Kilmer: Oh what you do Timmy

O'Donnell: Do Timmy

Jones: Dont break my heart Timmy.

[Kevin Roegele]

I think Batman & Robin would have been somewhat better had Kilmer returned for the role. Even though he technically would have no control over the script, Kilmer argued with Schumacher about the seriousness of the role in Forever, and just the prescence of his Batman would have added some stability and grounding that Clooney's did not have.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2005-06/17943502.jpg

http://www.planetkilmer.com/articles/book1_sm.jpg

http://www.planetkilmer.com/valbum/bf_album/bf_18.jpg

[Two-Face]

Nope. I know you won't, but I suggest you actually read the script by Lee and Janet-Scott Batchelor, or atleast the novelisation by Peter David. A great script doesn't mean the film itself will be great.

You know, in the script it doesn't say, "Jim Carrey be silly here," or "neon lights and giant naked male torso statue here."


I agree, I read the script and I thought it was very good :up: if Goldsman never touched the script and got different director I think the film would have been the best and would have passed Burton's movies or just as good as them.

[Brian Braddock]

I think Batman & Robin would have been somewhat better had Kilmer returned for the role. Even though he technically would have no control over the script, Kilmer argued with Schumacher about the seriousness of the role in Forever, and just the prescence of his Batman would have added some stability and grounding that Clooney's did not have.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2005-06/17943502.jpg

http://www.planetkilmer.com/articles/book1_sm.jpg

http://www.planetkilmer.com/valbum/bf_album/bf_18.jpg


Yeah, I think your'e right - the crazy bast**d wouldnt have stood for any crap from Schumacher!

Mind you, Schumaker was known to hate (is hate too stronger word -perhaps dislike) Kilmer after Forever (said he shouldve been in an asylum or something if memory serves) so you never know - if Kilmer had've stayed on, maybe Schumaker wouldve left.

That wouldve been interesting.

[Kevin Roegele]

Yeah, I think your'e right - the crazy bast**d wouldnt have stood for any crap from Schumacher!

Mind you, Schumaker was known to hate (is hate too stronger word -perhaps dislike) Kilmer after Forever (said he shouldve been in an asylum or something if memory serves) so you never know - if Kilmer had've stayed on, maybe Schumaker wouldve left.

That wouldve been interesting.

There are many suggested reasons for Kilmer quitting.

1. He didn't get on with Shumacher.
2. He didn't like the title change from Batman Triumphant to Batman & Robin.
3. He wanted Robert Towne to write the script.
4. He didn't want to shoot the movie in 1996 (which ultimately didn't happen anyway).
5. He was mocked for playing Batman on the set of Heat by De Niro and Pacino.

[Brian Braddock]

There are many suggested reasons for Kilmer quitting.

1. He didn't get on with Shumacher.
2. He didn't like the title change from Batman Triumphant to Batman & Robin.
3. He wanted Robert Towne to write the script.
4. He didn't want to shoot the movie in 1996 (which ultimately didn't happen anyway).
5. He was mocked for playing Batman on the set of Heat by De Niro and Pacino.

Wow, that one I hadnt heard. To be mocked for bein Batman by guys who starred in 'The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle' and 'Dick Tracy' respectively.

Double standards, if true, no?

[Mr. Socko]

Kilmer was good, but Kidman was GREAT!

[Kevin Roegele]

Kilmer was good, but Kidman was GREAT!

She was, wasn't she?

[El Payaso]

No, she wasn't. She was average and quite an airhead character.

Kilmer was good but his energy was very low.

[batmaluco]

Kilmer (and even Clooney) could have been a good Batman IF the direction didn't go so bad...

[Mr. Socko]

Was Clooney grey in B&R?

[batmaluco]

Was Clooney grey in B&R?
He was ghey. :o

[El Payaso]

Kilmer (and even Clooney) could have been a good Batman IF the direction didn't go so bad...

http://www.thecanonball.com/Media/gnwnd_h.jpg

As God is my witness, as God is my witness they're not going to make me be a crappy Batman. I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be a crappy Batman again. No, not for any gay director. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill. As God is my witness, I'll never be a crappy Batman again.

[TheFalcon]

I thought Kilmer was great as Batman and his Bruce Wayne was also great. Overall I think he was better than Keaton in the role.
If it wasn't for Schumacher I think he would've been much higher regarded.

[batmaluco]

http://www.thecanonball.com/Media/gnwnd_h.jpg

As God is my witness, as God is my witness they're not going to make me be a crappy Batman. I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be a crappy Batman again. No, not for any gay director. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill. As God is my witness, I'll never be a crappy Batman again.
lol

[El Payaso]

I thought Kilmer was great as Batman and his Bruce Wayne was also great. Overall I think he was better than Keaton in the role.
If it wasn't for Schumacher I think he would've been much higher regarded.

Well at least you got Schumacher wasn't great.

[Mr. Socko]

Better then Keaton? I'll pretend I didn't hear that. :o

[The Chairman]

Kilmer would've been great. Too bad Joel was involved. But he wouldn't have been as good as Keaton or Bale anyway.

[Thot]

I thought Kilmer was great as Batman and his Bruce Wayne was also great. Overall I think he was better than Keaton in the role.
If it wasn't for Schumacher I think he would've been much higher regarded.

:up: Amen.................

[Thot]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2005-06/17943502.jpg

http://www.planetkilmer.com/articles/book1_sm.jpg

http://www.planetkilmer.com/valbum/bf_album/bf_18.jpg

Still my favorite Batsuit!! Begins is a close second.

[El Payaso]

Thing for nipples?

Hey, I can get, I'm liberal.

[cryptic name]

i don't like the sculpting on the neck. i can't really see bruce wayne treating the batsuit as such a detailed piece of art. the slight anatomical look is great, but chiseled collar bones and a tendonous neck is a bit much.

[Kevin Roegele]

I thought Kilmer was great as Batman and his Bruce Wayne was also great. Overall I think he was better than Keaton in the role.

Bob Kane agreed with you.

[Proximo]

i don't like the sculpting on the neck. i can't really see bruce wayne treating the batsuit as such a detailed piece of art. the slight anatomical look is great, but chiseled collar bones and a tendonous neck is a bit much.

Well in the schumacher films, Its clear Alfred made the batsuits:)

I love the design on the Panther suit, My favorite batsuit to date.