Your Vision of the Bat Rogues

[ShadowBoxing]

Forget casting them for a minute and tell me what you want them to be like, what character flaws/attributes...history...introduction...place in the films..enlighten me

[SuBe]

Joker- A nameless meek former thug of Falcone trying to prove himself as tough. Nobody knows who he really is, he doesnt ever give his real name. He just wants to make money. He has a superiority complex an when he gets in a situation that is too much for him he makes jokes about it. After his "accident" he's a homical maniac with amnesia, truly beliveing hes the Clown Prince of Crime. A position he kill trying to keep.

Riddler: After seeing Batman in action, is infatuated with the mystery of who is Batman? And he tries to prove he's smarter than the Dark Knight Detective.

Mad Hatter: A child molester trying to bait in the next "Alice". After he defiles each little girl, they no longer are the pure flower he first met, therefore kills them.

Mr. Freeze: Just like the Animated Series.

Poison Ivy- A "cougar". A women in her later thirties, early fortys who hates men and has a fetish in plant life. A botanist/genetist who hate what "man" has done to her precious earth.

[R-Taco]

Warning: I'm Gonna Be Using The Picture That I've Already Posted A Bajillion Times Before.

Two-Face: Very serious, and talks with a lot of held-back rage (like someone one the brink of going postal). His movements should be very restrained and stiff.

Riddler: Commits his crimes to satisfy an unsatisfyable obsession with proving his intellect. Speaks in a bored, absent-minded sort of way.

Penguin: Acts like he thinks nothing he'll do could lower his "incredibly high social standing." Very arrogant, and tosses around rude remarks like they're nothing.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/R-Taco/Wowza.jpg
Joker: A down-on-his-luck Chemical Plant worker who gets fired from his job and tries his hand at being a stand-up comic to support his wife. He later gets another chance when the GCPD hire him as a spy to join the mob. Later, when he is discovered (although he doesn't know it yet), he is asked to head over to the Ace Chemical plant (where he used to work) with a few other gang memebers to collect some documents that would supposedly be enough evidence for police to arrest the mob boss. When he gets there, however, it is revealed to be a setup, and he gets tossed into one of the giant chemical tanks. He survives by getting drained out into the sewers. When he emerges, his face is bleached white, his hair is stained green, and his skin is tightened into a fixed grin. When he returns home, he discovers that the mob boss also had his wife killed, and this causes the newly-created Clown Prince of Crime to snap. Actually, his mind is now more aware than ever, even of the fact that he is a fictional character. This is why he kills without hesitation, and treats everything without an ounce of regret or serousness.

[Brian2887]

Joker - No origin. None. Just a creepy, sadistic freak who causes random chaos. He has a plan for what he does, but it only makes sense to him. He can do evil, disgusting things and find amusement in all of it. He's very theatrical, which makes his acts seem casual and more heinous. The closest to an origin I want to see is when he's confronted by Batman, or by Gordon, and they ask him who he is. He goes into a long, sad back-story about his horrible life and what sent him spiraling over the edge. Finally, he breaks down into laughter and gives several quick, alternative origins, leaving his true identity a mystery.

[Ronny Shade]

Mr. Freeze: Just like the Animated Series.
:up:

[SatanBurger]

Two-Face : Tortured, even prior to his scarring. Basically, he should be what Anakin should have been but didn't come close to. He genuinely wants to do good, but he's troubled by a foreboding darker side hidden deep within his psyche. He shouldn't be whiny, and he shouldn't a total screwball, but when he loses himself to rage, or depression, or whatever, it should be intense. The scarring should merely be the amplifier, or the final straw. The conduit for his (pseduo comic book) schizophrenia to take on a whole new life. Someone with a bad past. I've always liked the story about his dad using the double sided coin to torment him when he was a boy.

Joker : Dark, charismatic, complete, blisteringly evil. A flambouyant game show host gone awry. He should always be one step ahead of everybody. That means Black Mask, Batman, everybody. His being in total control is a scary juxtaposition agaisnt the fact that the very thing he pits himself against in life is control/reality/cultural "truths". Totally nihilistic. The methods of his transformation should be hinted at, as should small bits of his former life, but only to add the murkiness of his story, not to offer any quick, easy answers ala The Killing Joke origin. His speech should be intelligent and vibrant, and the very nature of his character allows him the benefit of elevated, colorful prose to express himself.

[NefHalo]

Wow, I know I've spent most of my time on this site insulting people for their idiotic views and stupid comments... But I can't really find any here. You guys actually have great concepts. Here are my favorites with a little elaboration from my part.

Riddler (my favorite villain) - "After seeing Batman in action, is infatuated with the mystery of who is Batman? And he tries to prove he's smarter than the Dark Knight Detective." (Superman Beyond) For more of a backstory though, perhaps include some Animated Series plot with the "being fired from his job creating mazes and riddles" and turning to revenge towards his boss. Batman thwarts him, he gets pissed, holds a grudge and strives to prove he's smarter than Batman. As a bit of dramatic irony, make the company he worked for be Wayne Enterprises. The costume shouldn't be as flashy as the animated show or the previous movie. A darker green suit, velvet maybe for the sheen effect, and a bowler. The cane should be in the shape of a question mark (trademark, gotta keep it) and doesn't necessarily have to be gold. Gold is bright and flashy, the new movies really aren't. Mask or no mask, he's going to be soooo badass in these new movies if done right. I hope Goyer doesn't screw up like he did with Blade Trinity... What a dissappointment.

Mad Hatter: "A child molester trying to bait in the next "Alice". After he defiles each little girl, they no longer are the pure flower he first met, therefore kills them." (SupermanBeyond) Another good one from you, bro. This will be a fun character for Batman to go up against. He's utterly delusional, and this movie could also introduce Dr. Leslie Thompkins. She could either be involved through the criminalistics of profiling Jervis or from a social services aspect with finding the missing girls. The set guys will have a great time creating a set design for his fantasy land which he lets the girls run free in, and find their way to his Tea Party before...well...doing his thing. This one of course will border on being inappropriate for the new movies with the concept of child molestation... But I think with simply IMPLYING that it's happening and not actually showing anything, and then later having the police tell Batman what's going one it'll be PG-13ish. The costume has to be authentic to Alice in Wonderland. So colorful is fine. This is one of the few that it's ok. But if they want, they could easily make a far more twisted Wonderland with a darker mad hatter, accentuating a brighter, more innocent Alice. This would be one dark, creepy Batman that if done right is worthy of a place next to Silence of the Lambs. Like I said, only if done right.

Mr. Freeze: "Just like the Animated Series." (SupermanBeyond). Agreed. And they better not use any influences from B&R for the suit. That was ugly, and wrong.

The rest of the comments are essentially agreed upon. Joker I'm not going to bother trying to comment on. He's too iconic to mess with. Either they'll do it right or they won't. This is a hit or miss, no gray area.

[Dark Night II]

Poison Ivy:An eco-terrorist working with Ras al ghul to rid the planet of pollution and evil. Ras could use her as a pawn ala scarecrow and make her seduce Bruce Wayne/Batman so he can take his revenge.
Mr Freeze: Youre right, like in the animated series and also like in the book Dark Victory.
Penguin: A major mob boss who is nicknamed the penguin because of his appearance and hates it. Has a fondness for birds and umbrellas but doesn't use them in elaborate crimes.

[javi1024]

Joker- A nameless meek former thug of Falcone trying to prove himself as tough. Nobody knows who he really is, he doesnt ever give his real name. He just wants to make money. He has a superiority complex an when he gets in a situation that is too much for him he makes jokes about it. After his "accident" he's a homical maniac with amnesia, truly beliveing hes the Clown Prince of Crime. A position he kill trying to keep.

Riddler: After seeing Batman in action, is infatuated with the mystery of who is Batman? And he tries to prove he's smarter than the Dark Knight Detective.

Mad Hatter: A child molester trying to bait in the next "Alice". After he defiles each little girl, they no longer are the pure flower he first met, therefore kills them.

Mr. Freeze: Just like the Animated Series.

Poison Ivy- A "cougar". A women in her later thirties, early fortys who hates men and has a fetish in plant life. A botanist/genetist who hate what "man" has done to her precious earth.
i like where ur goin with the riddler and poison ivy. mr freeze, no question, the best portrail of the character. i can buy your joker. but the mad hatter, thats way too adult for these films.

[baronghede]

Joker - No origin. None. Just a creepy, sadistic freak who causes random chaos. He has a plan for what he does, but it only makes sense to him. He can do evil, disgusting things and find amusement in all of it. He's very theatrical, which makes his acts seem casual and more heinous. The closest to an origin I want to see is when he's confronted by Batman, or by Gordon, and they ask him who he is. He goes into a long, sad back-story about his horrible life and what sent him spiraling over the edge. Finally, he breaks down into laughter and gives several quick, alternative origins, leaving his true identity a mystery.

PERFECT.

[Calendar Man]

I'll just do quick versions of my visions.

Joker: Real name is unknown. No background is needed here. I liked The Joker better in Grayson than the one in Dead End. Something like that. He still has green hair and wears purple suits(most of the time). He should be totally sadistic and kill someone important. He should find humor in other people's misery.

Penguin: Tough. An American or British (but not Russian) Arms Dealer who is a rising star in the Gotham Underworld. He should be short but taller than he is in the comics. He can fight when he has to. He should also have a few umbrellas with guns in them but don't go over the top with it. He should eventually rule Gotham Underworld. (Bob Hoskins should play him as an ass kicking Penguin.)

The Riddler: A super genius obsessed with puzzles. He also becomes obsessed with Batman. A major villian, one of the biggest. He should be like The Riddler in Hush. He should not be taken lightly.

Mr.Freeze: I agree that if they do him, he should be exactly like the Animated Series portrayl right down to the voice.

Calendar Man: A man obsessed with Calendar to the point that it starts to drives him mad. He can faceBatman but then end up giving clues about things later like in the Long Halloween.

[Dark Guardian]

I would be happy if they put everybody from TAS and stuck them into movie form. Period, end of story.
The Joker: You know, I don't want Joker to be just a random killer. He does things for a reason. To bait Batman. And I especially loved the episode in TAS entitled, "The Man who Killed Batman" and Joker realises the entire reason he's still in crime is no longer because he enjoys stealing or killing, but because he enjoys matching wits with Batman.
Two-Face: Exactly like TAS. Tortured friend of Bruce Wayne. This old friendship makes him even more dangerous because Batman still wants to help him. They really shouldn't pass this guy off. He has the potential to be one of Batmans most versatile and dangerous foes exactly for the reason that he may not always do whats wrong. Like in No Man's Land, he should be completely obsessed with his coin. Nothing happens without the coin.
Mr. Freeze: Basically, take the story, "Heart of Ice" and put it on the screen. I mean sure, change it a little bit, but this is the whole premice behind Freeze. He's not insane. He lacks emotion. All he lives for is to freeze the man who killed his wife in solid, unforgiving ice.
The Riddler: Again, alot like TAS. He should be conciously giving riddles everywhere. Riddles within riddles that point to the REAL crime. Hes like a puppeteer who stands back and observes his enemies. Not like in Forever where he's constantly involved personally. You shouldn't even know its him behind it until the very end.
The Penguin: Once again, TAS. Looks like he did in Returns except that you should be able to see that he's trying to look normal. None of that black eye-shadow around the eyes...that was just wierd.

[StorminNorman]

Mad Hatter: A child molester trying to bait in the next "Alice". After he defiles each little girl, they no longer are the pure flower he first met, therefore kills them.

Posts like that have made me want to see Mad Hatter in the movies - he was a character originally on my DONT list.

[DavidTyler]

The Joker should be a psychopathic killer. There shouldn't be any humour about him. His laugh should be frightening. If he has a mob, they should all be terrified of him.

Riddler... here's a different take... What if he were a mobster who is obsessed with puzzles? Not necessarily a genious but a very bright guy who is more of a dark mastermind. He could be violent, have a crew, and still leave puzzles for the police. Kind of like some of the serial killers do but use his clues as more of a taunt for the police than leaving them as part of his obsession. I can see him even playing with little origami figures. He could write his clues on the paper he uses to create the figures. Of course, he wouldn't always use origami figures.

[ShadowBoxing]

I like the child molestor Hatter...but it just would fly in a film with this rating

[Calendar Man]

I doubt we will ever see Hatter in general, child molestor or not (sadly).

[R-Taco]

The Joker should be a psychopathic killer. There shouldn't be any humour about him. His laugh should be frightening. If he has a mob, they should all be terrified of him.

Riddler... here's a different take... What if he were a mobster who is obsessed with puzzles? Not necessarily a genious but a very bright guy who is more of a dark mastermind. He could be violent, have a crew, and still leave puzzles for the police. Kind of like some of the serial killers do but use his clues as more of a taunt for the police than leaving them as part of his obsession. I can see him even playing with little origami figures. He could write his clues on the paper he uses to create the figures. Of course, he wouldn't always use origami figures.

I dunno about using this "quiet phychopath" idea for everything. I don't want all the villains to be the same. Anyways, what's a Joker without humor?

[NefHalo]

I doubt we will ever see Hatter in general, child molestor or not (sadly).

Why not? I didn't expect to see Scarecrow, being such a minor villain, but he was perfect in the role. He wasn't the main badguy, but still he was excellent. The same could go for Hatter. Although I see what you mean, as not bein well known enough to be a main villain like Two-Face, Penguin, or the Joker, especially in the sense that we're viewing him as... But it's a good concept.

[ShadowBoxing]

Mad hatter is probably more likely than my dream villians (Killer Croc and Clayface) because he can fit in much more with the tone of the film

[PhantomPirate06]

Honestly all of these are good opinions, and I truly wish that they could use that Mad Hatter idea, especially with the escape of the inmates of Arkham.....it could be interesting indeed to have him appear. You wouldnt even need to have too much detail (for the kids sake) but give enough of a hint, like with CSI, about what he does

[Lone Wolf]

Mad hatter is probably more likely than my dream villians (Killer Croc and Clayface) because he can fit in much more with the tone of the film

Mad Hatter,Martin Short.
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214016

Julian McMahon,Clayface.
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212856

[Whack Arnolds]

I'm down for alot of different interperetations.

[S_H_F_4839]

Well heres and idea I would like to see implemented.

The Joker/ His back story goes back to being a stand up comedian that is really bad at what he does, and seeing he is not making ends meet, he goes to the falcone mob for help, and they give him a loan, he uses it up without ever looking for another job, meaning he believes his comedy is going to turn around and when it comes time to start paying back the loan he can't, they in turn start by beating him as a reminder to get a job and start paying them back, he still stalls thinking he can avoid paying, he and his wife and newborn move to a slummy neighborhood near the chemical plant to hide out, he goes on to get a job their but they don't hire him, he comes home to find his wife and baby dead, she has been shot twice and the baby once, and in his mind he gives up on life, and walks back to the chemical plant, the murder weapon was left at his house, he picks it up and puts it in his pocket, he walks up to the gate of the plant that night, The guard unlocks the gate to approach him and when he gets close enough the joker's character takes out the pistol and shoots the guard killing him on the spot, he climbs up a flight of stairs to where he is on a walkway looks up at the sky and emptys the gun, and I have got it pictured as a six shot and two in the wife, one in the baby, one in the guard, he fires the last two off in the air like he is trying to shoot something in the air, he drops the gun on the walkway looks over the edge of ledge and climbs and jumps off trying to commit suicide he lands in the vat of chemicals, the killing of the guard should signify a change taking place in him, he no longer feels any regret, when he gets flushed out into the river he comes up onto the river bank changed it signifys here the death of his other self and the birth of the joker, because when he looks at his reflection and sees what the chemical did to him, his mind snaps completely.

[ShadowBoxing]

Joker: young comedian during the depression. He peformed in a bar in the narrows. With people as poor as they were his comedy, no matter how funny, was unable to lift the crowds spirits. The bar owner eventually could no longer afford to pay him and took pity on him. He heard one of his patrons had a job openning at a chemical factory. Little did the bartender know, but the job "openning" was merely an attempt by the Thorne mob to get a foot in the door of the factory to rob them. They used the Joker as the red hood, and during the robbery left him to take the fall when Gordon and the (former) DA arrived with police support. Gordon and Flass chased him down, scarred for his life he climb on one of the catwalks. The trigger happy Flass fired at him causing him to fall into one of the vats. The cops searched for the body but he had already exitted through the drainage. When he awoke on shore he staggered back home only to find his wife and infant son murdered. He went insane and burst into laughter upon seeing his face in a mirror. Joker devouted the next few years of his life to building up enough money and support to seek revenge on both the police and Thorne. During the course of the movie Joker takes revenge on both Flass and Dawes (the DA assisstant) and several of Thorne's men. He enlists the aid of a small gang and a circus sideshow known as Killer Croc

Killer Croc: Killer Croc enters when the Joker enlists him to join his mob. Killer Croc himself in his youth was a juvenile deliquent turned circus attraction and had held a grudge against any and all authority for years. Killer Croc will mainly be a henchman in the second film. However by the third film he will have begun to try to start his own mob only to be busted up on one of there first gigs by Detective Bullock. By film four Ra's Al Ghual will have staged a prison break for Croc so he can seek revenge on Bullock and frame him for a bribery scandal.

Mr Earle: Mr Earle will inherent a company called New Earth International. The business is a front for Ra's Al Gual in his further attempts to cleanse the world. By Movie four after the business has enjoyed a good deal of success they will release a product called renew you. After an actor ODs on the substance (which is really designed to slowly kill off the users) He turns into the villian Clayface who is then force to work for Ra's in exchange for the cure.

Two Face - Harvey Dent finally bust Rupert Thorne at the end of movie two. He sends him to prison not only on recent charges but also for the crimes he committed against the Joker and his former family. In court Thorne douses Dent with a beaker of chemicals which was used by the Joker (off of evidence table). Dent himself was a long time friend of Bruce and also initially thought by Gordon to have been Batman. Dent as a foe turns out to be quiet the adversary, he is physically strong and capable. Dent forms a mob in Gotham after his accident. They knockover Cobblepots nightclub first and eventually come into contact with Crocs new gang who is comprised of several of Thorne's men. There Bullock apprehends Croc. Two Face however escapes. In Movie Four Two Face attempts to correct his face with the Renew You Drug he becomes terminally ill (despite the fact that it does correct his face). Batman must find a cure to save his friends life

Bullock: Tough street smart cop with a bit of a hard edge when it comes to Batman. After Flass bites the big one in film two he steps in to fill his big shoes. While not the *most* ethical cop out there, he is on the same page as Gordon (whom he respects greatly). He wants desperately to clean up Gotham and perhaps his sometimes unscrupulous tactics are what they need. Though they will get him in trouble as it becomes easy for Killer Croc to frame him for several bridery scandals. Why the frame up you might ask. Well Bullock's a good detective and uncovers a secret about Earle's New Earth company and the true benefactors behind it (Ra's). Ra's then stages a breakout for Killer Croc knowing he will seek revenge on Bullock in some fashion.

[Batman]

The Joker

Basically,He's a down on his luck loser Factory worker who's trying to get into comedy,but can never find any work,do to his lack of good material.Loosing all hope left,He gives up any hope of entering standup,and returns to his job.

One night,while He's working,some escaped inmates from the Narrow incident turn up at the factory,hiding from the police.Batman,who shows up to catch the inmates,mistakes him for one,and chases after him.The man,being terrified of Batman,gets so desperate to escape that he dives into one of the chemical vats in the factory,and seemingly dies.

As Batman and the police round up the escaped inmates,the loser crawls out of the vat,and decides to go home,after all of the stress he went through that night,not realising what the chemical did to him.

Back at his obviously crummy apartment,He comes in,and walks into the bathroom.As he goes to use it,He catches a look at himself in the mirror,only to see that his hair is bleached a dark green,and his skin has been turned snow white.

Distraught by the image of himself as a clown,the man finally goes off the deep end,going into a rage of laughter,while breaking the mirror apart with his fist.Loosing even more of his mind,the man,inspired by the image on a Joker card,sitting on the sink,takes one of the glass pieces,and basically mutilates his mouth until it resembles a bloody,almost demonic looking permanent grin.

Deciding,once and for all,that his life as a normal person is over,He vows to make Batman pay for forcing him into the chemical,by killing Gotham City as a whole,as Batman obviously wants to save it.

Taking another one of the glass pieces,He runs down to a local store(It'd be like a Goodwill store),kills the cashier,and picks out a purple suit,gloves,new shoes,some spats,and even finds an antique cane.He even takes a tube of lipstick,to cover up the deformaties of his mutilated grin.Realising he needs a new name to go with his new life,He eventually turns to the Joker card,once again,and comes up with the name 'Joker'.

Now,He has good comedy material.It's just unfortunate that it happens to be sick and twisted,and usually involves death.

[Lone Wolf]

The Joker

Basically,He's a down on his luck loser Factory worker who's trying to get into comedy,but can never find any work,do to his lack of good material.Loosing all hope left,He gives up any hope of entering standup,and returns to his job.

One night,while He's working,some escaped inmates from the Narrow incident turn up at the factory,hiding from the police.Batman,who shows up to catch the inmates,mistakes him for one,and chases after him.The man,being terrified of Batman,gets so desperate to escape that he dives into one of the chemical vats in the factory,and seemingly dies.

As Batman and the police round up the escaped inmates,the loser crawls out of the vat,and decides to go home,after all of the stress he went through that night,not realising what the chemical did to him.

Back at his obviously crummy apartment,He comes in,and walks into the bathroom.As he goes to use it,He catches a look at himself in the mirror,only to see that his hair is bleached a dark green,and his skin has been turned snow white.

Distraught by the image of himself as a clown,the man finally goes off the deep end,going into a rage of laughter,while breaking the mirror apart with his fist.Loosing even more of his mind,the man,inspired by the image on a Joker card,sitting on the sink,takes one of the glass pieces,and basically mutilates his mouth until it resembles a bloody,almost demonic looking permanent grin.

Deciding,once and for all,that his life as a normal person is over,He vows to make Batman pay for forcing him into the chemical,by killing Gotham City as a whole,as Batman obviously wants to save it.

Taking another one of the glass pieces,He runs down to a local store(It'd be like a Goodwill store),kills the cashier,and picks out a purple suit,gloves,new shoes,some spats,and even finds an antique cane.He even takes a tube of lipstick,to cover up the deformaties of his mutilated grin.Realising he needs a new name to go with his new life,He eventually turns to the Joker card,once again,and comes up with the name 'Joker'.

Now,He has good comedy material.It's just unfortunate that it happens to be sick and twisted,and usually involves death.

Perfect concept.

[SatanBurger]

I'll be the first in this thread to say the Joker's "comedian" origin is awful.. It's too literal, too lazy. It's like giving Batman an origin as a bat trainer or writing Two-Face as a retired ventriloquist. Joker's namesake and antics have nothing to do with comedy, especially the kind you'd find on stage. He's a wildcard, a joker in the deck.

[NefHalo]

I'll be the first in this thread to say the Joker's "comedian" origin is awful.. It's too literal, too lazy. It's like giving Batman an origin as a bat trainer or writing Two-Face as a retired ventriloquist. Joker's namesake and antics have nothing to do with comedy, especially the kind you'd find on stage. He's a wildcard, a joker in the deck.

Yay, I kept quiet and someone actually realized what was wrong with this thread. I love you Satan. Seriously.

[PhantomPirate06]

Ok, here are my personal views on the Rogues (mind, this is a long post)
Joker - The man known as the Joker began his life as a street urchin, who began to make a meager living by playing poker with the deck he grabbed while stealing a purse. Over the years he became a pro at the game but was unfortunate to come across the head of a crime family. After beating him, the Joker took his winnings and ran, but he was caught by the mob and they beat him to the point of death. Deciding that if he was found, they would be as well, they dumped him in a chemical vat to get rid of him. Lucky for the Joker, the vat was drained as soon as he was thrown in, but not before his skin was bleached and his hair turned green. Looking at his reflection, he created his new life based on the one constant of his old one, the Joker card, and so began his future of chaos and murder.
The Mad Hatter - Once a child therapist, Jarvis dedicated himself to helping the children that he felt a special bond with, but over the years as his own daughter grew older, his mind began to create it's own world, his Wonderland, where he could play with the children and they wouldn't be in the pain in which he helped them through. One day, as he was leaving his home to go to the bar, he saw a young girl playing in a park alone. While he knew he should just leave her be, something in his mind decided that he should go talk to her. The girl was afraid of him, and she ran away crying, snapping Jarvis's mind and creating the Mad Hatter. He followed her to her home before leaving to go to the bar and a costume shop. That night he returned, dressed as the Hatter, and he took the girl to his self-made Wonderland, which was his basement. Using some experimental technology from Wayne Enterprises and the GCPD, he takes control of the girl's mind and then her body. He uses it on his family when they discover him, and to him, nothing is wrong. And that begins the tale of the Mad Hatter and his unwilling Alice.
Two-Face - The man who was Harvey Dent, District Attorney for Gotham City became the criminal Two-Face after prosecuting a Mob boss. On his way out of the Courtroom, the remains of the mob rushes him and throws a beaker of acid on to his face, horribly burning and scarring him. This event triggers the breakdown of an already fragile man, and the darkness overwhelms him to the point of murder, but the good in him is not fully destroyed. After every crime, in his perverted sense of justice, he flips a coin, one side the beautiful face of lady justice, the other marred by scratches, a reflection of himself. After killing someone close to Bruce Wayne, Batman begins his quest to aid his former friend.
Poison Ivy - While thought to be a kind hearted botanist, Pamela Isley is truly deserving of her criminal name. Under the cover of her flower store, she is a key member in the mob and a pawn of the League of Shadows, much like Scarecrow. Using the blue flowers and many others, she has created many different perfumes and poisons that are designed to grasp control of a victim's mind and body. One of her signature ways to kill is a special lipstick that she has immunized herself against which acts very fast to paralyze the recipient, and if they have a weak immune system, it will kill them. After being seen asassinating a witness by Batman, Poison Ivy learns to fear the night.
Penguin - Born of nobility in England, the arms dealer known as the Penguin begins to strike fear into the minds of the GCPD. While he is not physically imposing, being short and bald with a long pointed nose, the fact that his cultured appearance and socially acceptable reputation make it easy for him to be anywhere in the city making a deal involving weapons that could blow up Gotham. Soon his dealings are discovered by Batman, and he attempts to hide behind his image, but that is soon shattered.
Catwoman - Born into the elite of Gotham much like Bruce, Selina Kyle uses her fortune in a similar way, but for a different purpose. Using her public facade of money, power, and culture to keep the eyes off of her true job, a cat burgler. She begins to get a status like Batman, causing the public to worry about his true objective. After being attacked while fighting her, Batman knows that he must keep this battle out of the public eye, and he does, slowing unraveling the clues of her identity, but he doesnt realize that she's coming close to the man behind the bat

ok, there it is, as long as it was, and I apologize for taking up your time. I didn't write Mr. Freeze, because I can't think of a good back story, if sumone wants to PM the TAS one to me, I'd be much abliged.

[Spiderman703]

?? what is this for?

[Lone Wolf]

?? what is this for?

A thread about how exactly the villians of the film should be introduced since half of us only care about the casting,this thread shows how its just not the casting that makes the character.The details are very effective.

Read the beginning of this thread.

[blind_fury]

Joker- No origin. Very charming yet ugly and sadistic. He should be extremely intelligent to justify his challenge to Batman. I liked Jack Nicholsons Joker but wouldnt mind a change as long as if an improvement. Big "if".

Croc- Should look like Predator minus the mandibles. But he should have the personality of a italian thug. Simple yet fearless. His overconfidence in his strength is ultimately his weakness. No circus origin. Born and raised in Arkham with an absolute hatred for authority. His weapon of choice should be a shot gun or machete.

Riddler- No jokey take on the character. Show the riddler killing people right away to show he's nothing to play with. This way it will be suspensefull when Batman struggles to solve the latest riddle. I think William H. Macy would be perfect. Put him in a green suit with a bowler hat to match. He should seem like a nice guy to make his brutal crimes even more disturbing.

Poison Ivy- I like the TAS version. She should be played by a hottie with curves. Redhead of course. She should be seductive in the begining so we all fall in love with her. But by the end of the film, when she has that crazy look in her eyes, we realize she is completely out of her mind. We become truly afraid of her.

[The Last Meatbag]

I like bits and pieces of Master Bruce's joker origin the most

[StorminNorman]

After having the Joker already killing people at the end of Begins - I dont see how they will be able to tell his entire back story and still have enough time for Batman and the other villians.

[NefHalo]

After having the Joker already killing people at the end of Begins - I dont see how they will be able to tell his entire back story and still have enough time for Batman and the other villians.

He could have been one of the guzillions of guys who got out of Arkaham at the end of Begins, which means he would be on file. One click of a mouse, and they would have his entire backstory, and Batman could just read it, and a montage or something could play as headlines cycle through and we get to read along... Or something like that. Either that or have Gordon mention some crucial details to an inquiring Bat after he gets a look at the guy.

[ShadowBoxing]

After having the Joker already killing people at the end of Begins - I dont see how they will be able to tell his entire back story and still have enough time for Batman and the other villians.I'd do the Killing Joke Origin more or less and boil it down to about 10-15 minutes

[PhantomPirate06]

i honestly think that it will be told well no matter what way they choose to use

[Abe Rush]

The Riddler: At first, I wasn't sure how I wanted him to be in the movies, but I felt somewhat inspired by Alex Ross's design of the character, which most of you have probably already seen quite a few times...

http://www.newsarama.com/SDCC05/AlexRoss/the_Riddler.jpg

I then came up with an idea I am yet to see presented by anyone else. I think it would be interesting to have him be a dark and shadowy figure that only comes out of hiding to play his deadly mind games with unsuspecting citizens. Of course, he would be a genius, that is also an expert in making all types of bombs, that he would use in his games of wits.

He would be after Gotham City's most brilliant people, but how exactly would he get them to play his little games? What I had in mind was to have him stand in front of specific houses late at night and call the person living inside from his cellphone. When the person answers, he chats casually with them, like he's nothing more than 'another' fan... just before presenting them with 2 choices:

1. They play his little game, for 'fun';
2. They die righ away, along with their family.

If the person hangs up, their house blows up... literally.
If the person agrees to play, he starts asking them questions that keep getting harder and harder. If the person manages to answer all his questions, they "pass" to the next round, which means they are safe for the moment, but that he will contact them soon for "the next step". Whenever someone gets a question wrong, they are automatically eliminated... Eventually, Bruce Wayne becomes one of his 'victims' and maybe Batman could as well, since The Riddler feels he seems to have a lot of potential.

I like the idea that The Riddler would actually want to witness the events, rather than staying hidden far away in a secret place. Of course, he would have prepared all kinds of traps, in order to prevent anyone from actually catching him. For example, I thought that at one point, someone to whom he's asking the questions could spot him outside, watching him from across the street and then decides to take matters into his own hands and stop this madman, he runs out of the house and across the street to tackle the shadowy figure, which ends up being a dummy equipped with a bomb... and *boom*

So, is that any good?

[The Last Meatbag]

Yeah, I just dont really like the Riddlers costume design

[Venom160]

I think this guy would make a great mad hatter.

http://www.rubicon-films.com/popups/images/actor-austin-pendleton.jpg

[blankieboy]

I'm elaborating on something I mentioned in another thread (the "Joker's look" thread -- saw that one before this).

I really think the Joker-as-failed-comedian angle is really, as some here have already put it, lazy. And I'd really be disappointed if I saw the film version take a similar route, that or the "mysterious street thug" story we saw in Mask of the Phantasm.

I really like the way Nolan has gone about the traditional Batman rogues. The bottom line is, they're straight out of the comic books, and damn right they're outrageous. The Long Halloween-ish approach, juxtaposing the traditional criminal syndicates against the flambouyant, mad wave of nutjobs that eventually take over is a really great idea. You just cannot take for granted that these are Batman's rogues gallery -- it's especially easy with the Joker, Batman's widely acknowledged #1 nemesis (as far as the public is concerned), and the public is definitely desensitized to the utter outrageousness of his character.

I'd like to see a spin off the Joker as delusional artist thing. For some reason, I see him as a Warhol-esque figure, eccentric head of a weird counterculture that nobody understands. The difference being, obviously, that this is the Joker we're talking about, and he's an absolute nut. I would like to see the Wild Card given justice -- let's not just limit him to being a "homicidal maniac" as he is too often depicted. I'd like to see more substance. I'd like to see a madman just as likely to kill as not -- no basis for prediction, a man with absolutely no logical reasons for his actions. His crimes could range anywhere from wholesale, indiscriminating murder to random crap like covering Gotham in tar and feathers -- again, the mad artist slant. I'm no writer, but in the right hands, I think it could be done well. He can be the guy that gathers together all the narrows escapees, albeit in a somewhat anarchical fashion, a la Project Mayhem. Or he can be utterly independent. Or even better, both. Again, I think utter unpredictability is the way to go with the Joker. This would also be a great way to cater to his every incarnation -- so schizophrenic and illogical, his personality lapses between charismatic jokester, sick blood-thirsty killer, childish prankster, etc. Possibilities are endless with him.

End rant. I agree with all of you in the NO ORIGIN camp for this one.

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm elaborating on something I mentioned in another thread (the "Joker's look" thread -- saw that one before this).

I really think the Joker-as-failed-comedian angle is really, as some here have already put it, lazy. And I'd really be disappointed if I saw the film version take a similar route, that or the "mysterious street thug" story we saw in Mask of the Phantasm.

I really like the way Nolan has gone about the traditional Batman rogues. The bottom line is, they're straight out of the comic books, and damn right they're outrageous. The Long Halloween-ish approach, juxtaposing the traditional criminal syndicates against the flambouyant, mad wave of nutjobs that eventually take over is a really great idea. You just cannot take for granted that these are Batman's rogues gallery -- it's especially easy with the Joker, Batman's widely acknowledged #1 nemesis (as far as the public is concerned), and the public is definitely desensitized to the utter outrageousness of his character.

I'd like to see a spin off the Joker as delusional artist thing. For some reason, I see him as a Warhol-esque figure, eccentric head of a weird counterculture that nobody understands. The difference being, obviously, that this is the Joker we're talking about, and he's an absolute nut. I would like to see the Wild Card given justice -- let's not just limit him to being a "homicidal maniac" as he is too often depicted. I'd like to see more substance. I'd like to see a madman just as likely to kill as not -- no basis for prediction, a man with absolutely no logical reasons for his actions. His crimes could range anywhere from wholesale, indiscriminating murder to random crap like covering Gotham in tar and feathers -- again, the mad artist slant. I'm no writer, but in the right hands, I think it could be done well. He can be the guy that gathers together all the narrows escapees, albeit in a somewhat anarchical fashion, a la Project Mayhem. Or he can be utterly independent. Or even better, both. Again, I think utter unpredictability is the way to go with the Joker. This would also be a great way to cater to his every incarnation -- so schizophrenic and illogical, his personality lapses between charismatic jokester, sick blood-thirsty killer, childish prankster, etc. Possibilities are endless with him.

End rant. I agree with all of you in the NO ORIGIN camp for this one.Well the down and out comedian is straight out of the comic books...in fact its taken as the official origin.

[Compi716]

Joker - No origin. None. Just a creepy, sadistic freak who causes random chaos. He has a plan for what he does, but it only makes sense to him. He can do evil, disgusting things and find amusement in all of it. He's very theatrical, which makes his acts seem casual and more heinous. The closest to an origin I want to see is when he's confronted by Batman, or by Gordon, and they ask him who he is. He goes into a long, sad back-story about his horrible life and what sent him spiraling over the edge. Finally, he breaks down into laughter and gives several quick, alternative origins, leaving his true identity a mystery.
:up: :up:
Now THAT I like. You've got to have a Joker with a sense of humor!

And I can really see the Mark Hamill Joker doing that "origin" scene.

[Compi716]

My personal preference for Two-Face's origin?

A TAS-Long Halloween combo. The attitude of TAS Harvey with the acid sequence of TLH Harvey.

[StorminNorman]

My personal preference for Two-Face's origin?

A TAS-Long Halloween combo. The attitude of TAS Harvey with the acid sequence of TLH Harvey.

I wasnt a big fan of TAS - I like the idea of Harvey being a great guy ("Apollo") before being turned into Two-Face. TLH was perfect - no reason to change it.

[blankieboy]

Well the down and out comedian is straight out of the comic books...in fact its taken as the official origin.

Agreed. However, I wasn't clear in my own explanation. Mainly what I was getting at was just how Nolan has thus far treated the villains (every major character, really) very realistically with respect to the realist world he's been so hell-bent on creating. He justifies these larger-than-life, "straight out of a comic book" type baddies within the boundaries of that world. So with respect to that one point, I meant it more in the context of the Batman Begins world itself rather than Nolan's approach.

Don't get me wrong -- Killing Joke is definitely one of, if not THE definitive Joker tales. As far as the new films go, however, I would like to see a Joker functioning in a manner similar to that which I described earlier, but without the origin story. See everyone else's reasoning for that scenario -- the creepy factor, mainly.

I'm not directly addressing you specifically for calling me on that point, I'm just clarifying myself, because I know some of my post was scatterbrained and here or there. But aren't we all...

peaces

[The Riddler]

The Riddler: At first, I wasn't sure how I wanted him to be in the movies, but I felt somewhat inspired by Alex Ross's design of the character, which most of you have probably already seen quite a few times...

http://www.newsarama.com/SDCC05/AlexRoss/the_Riddler.jpg

I then came up with an idea I am yet to see presented by anyone else. I think it would be interesting to have him be a dark and shadowy figure that only comes out of hiding to play his deadly mind games with unsuspecting citizens. Of course, he would be a genius, that is also an expert in making all types of bombs, that he would use in his games of wits.

He would be after Gotham City's most brilliant people, but how exactly would he get them to play his little games? What I had in mind was to have him stand in front of specific houses late at night and call the person living inside from his cellphone. When the person answers, he chats casually with them, like he's nothing more than 'another' fan... just before presenting them with 2 choices:

1. They play his little game, for 'fun';
2. They die righ away, along with their family.

If the person hangs up, their house blows up... literally.
If the person agrees to play, he starts asking them questions that keep getting harder and harder. If the person manages to answer all his questions, they "pass" to the next round, which means they are safe for the moment, but that he will contact them soon for "the next step". Whenever someone gets a question wrong, they are automatically eliminated... Eventually, Bruce Wayne becomes one of his 'victims' and maybe Batman could as well, since The Riddler feels he seems to have a lot of potential.

I like the idea that The Riddler would actually want to witness the events, rather than staying hidden far away in a secret place. Of course, he would have prepared all kinds of traps, in order to prevent anyone from actually catching him. For example, I thought that at one point, someone to whom he's asking the questions could spot him outside, watching him from across the street and then decides to take matters into his own hands and stop this madman, he runs out of the house and across the street to tackle the shadowy figure, which ends up being a dummy equipped with a bomb... and *boom*

So, is that any good?
i like it though i think riddler should never be so personally attached and should instead be hidden. viewers shouldn't even really see him; he should always be in the dark.

also, i don't like ross's suit; i think riddler should look similar to jim lee's in HUSH.

i'd also like for riddler to know that bruce is batman and really use that to his advantage.

[DavidTyler]

Well, this is long and I don't expect everyone here to read it but a while ago I wrote up my idea of the Joker's origins. I know I posted it somewhere before but I think it's appropriate here ... So...

This encompasses all the different versions I've read over the years (plus an idea or two of my own) and distills them down to one:

The Joker (unnamed) as a young boy: His father was a traveling salesman with a growing mental problem. He was slowly unraveling at the seams. Their home was less than extravagant. Lower middle class, I would say. Young Joker was the victim of self imposed isolation. He and his mother were afraid of other's finding out how the father was unraveling. Each trip back to the family would find the father going further off his nut until one night he came home and just collapsed in an unending rain of tears. He just keep repeating 'Laugh, Clown, laugh' through his tears. His father was put into a mental home and died there. It was discovered too late that he had suffered with a brain tumor.

The young Joker and his mother struggled on without him. The financial burdens were almost too much for them to bear. The mother's solution? She met up with a blue collar working man who would improve their financial situation marginally but enough. Unfortunately, the man was an abuser and often came home drunk with lipstick stains on his ripped t-shirt and leather jacket. Joker's mother withstood the frequent beatings and the infidelities for the sake of the roof over their heads and out of fear of more severe beatings. The new boyfriend disliked young Joker intensely. He was of the opinon that the boy was of no good use and a poof. .. a sissy. When left alone with young Joker, the boyfriend made it a point to slap him around thinking to toughen him up.

He was often tormented by the other kids at school because his clothes were not the nicest and that he was overly close to his mother. Having no friends and no refuge at home, Young Joker isolated himself even further - often spending time alone in the dump yards of the local landfill. Often discovering interesting things discarded by others. One day he came upon an old, broken refrigerator that a rat had somehow gotten into and died. This look at something dead and decaying fascinated him. Eventually he took to trapping animals and, exhibiting cruelty borne out of the violences used on him, left them in the refrigerator to suffocate and die. The decaying process interested him more than the killing.

One night, on returning home from one of his junk yard excursions, he had found his mother bruised and beaten. The boyfriend had gotten to her again. Young Joker found him still in the house ... and drunk. He flailed away with his small fists at the drunken abuser who was easily twice his size. The man dragged the boy out to the front room and decided he would teach the 'little girl' a lesson. He removed his belt and wrapped it around his fist like a strap. He started for his zipper and young Joker suspected what was up next.

He grabbed a fireplace poker and started swinging wildly at the boyfriend. The boy creased the man's face with it. The abuser was at once enraged, coming at the boy like a mad killer. He lunged at the boy and knocked him to the ground, smashing the ceramic clowns his mother had collected. The boy never let go of the iron poker, swinging it as best he could at his assailant. To cut right to the chase, the young Joker ends up killing the boyfriend.

The mother is sent to the hospital and social services puts the boy in a foster home not far from where he and his mother had lived. He still makes his excursions into the dump yard. He continues to put living things in the death trap refrigerator so that he can monitor their death. It gives him the only sense of control he has.

Another boy in the foster home, desperately looking for friendship and willing to settle for this odd person who has come into his life, starts following young Joker everywhere. Annoyed with this constant tag along, young Joker makes a huge bend in the wrong direction and locks up this other boy in the death trap. Maybe he had just intended to leave him for an hour to scare him but, once locked in the box, the fascination took over. The boy was left most of the night. When young joker finally released him, the boy was near death.

The authorities were called in and young Joker was sent to Juvenile Prison. While there, they transferred him to a psyche ward where he spent the years up to his 21st birthday.

On turning 21, he was released. It was his intention to build a new life out of the ashes of the old. He tried legitimate jobs. He even took a wife. The problem was, the money never went far enough and he never made much to begin with. At this point, he found himself in the hands of the mob having spent time in 'Juvie' with some of them. They offered him a chance to make real money. A chance to be a part of something big. He took it and started bringing home cash he couldn't explain to his now pregnant wife. So that she wouldn't have to be a part of this, he assumes a false name.. Jack.. Jack Napier. He manages to keep the two lives separate for a while but then it all comes crashing down when some hoods find his wife and do away with her. 'Jack' stops caring about anything at this point and just gives in to his cruelty. He is now Jack full time, leaving the name he was given at birth behind.

'Jack' becomes an ace hit man. Even his mob bosses fear him. This 'Jack' has a cruel streak that knows no bounds. They decide to deal with him. With rumours of a mythical' Batman' sweeping the city. They concoct the story of 'The Red Hood' with every intention of setting Jack up for the fall. Jack, who now has nothing to lose and takes nothing seriously anymore, agrees to don the hood and play the game.

The Red Hood ends, as we all know, with 'Jack' being dumped in a vat of toxic chemicals and, at last, the complete unraveling of his sanity. His new face resembles the broken ceramic clown that had belonged to his mother. He renames himself after the wild card ... Joker.


And there you have it. My take on how the Joker became who he is. How an abused boy becomes a violent gangster and psychotic killer. How he arrives at the name Jack. How he finally fulfills his destiny and become the most monstrous killer ever concieved.

... And, sorry Alan, he was never a stand up comedian. That part is just too lame for me. .....


Well? Thoughts?

[DavidTyler]

Well, this is long and I don't expect everyone here to read it but a while ago I wrote up my idea of the Joker's origins. I know I posted it somewhere before but I think it's appropriate here ... So...

This encompasses all the different versions I've read over the years (plus an idea or two of my own) and distills them down to one:

The Joker (unnamed) as a young boy: His father was a traveling salesman with a growing mental problem. He was slowly unraveling at the seams. Their home was less than extravagant. Lower middle class, I would say. Young Joker was the victim of self imposed isolation. He and his mother were afraid of other's finding out how the father was unraveling. Each trip back to the family would find the father going further off his nut until one night he came home and just collapsed in an unending rain of tears. He just keep repeating 'Laugh, Clown, laugh' through his tears. His father was put into a mental home and died there. It was discovered too late that he had suffered with a brain tumor.

The young Joker and his mother struggled on without him. The financial burdens were almost too much for them to bear. The mother's solution? She met up with a blue collar working man who would improve their financial situation marginally but enough. Unfortunately, the man was an abuser and often came home drunk with lipstick stains on his ripped t-shirt and leather jacket. Joker's mother withstood the frequent beatings and the infidelities for the sake of the roof over their heads and out of fear of more severe beatings. The new boyfriend disliked young Joker intensely. He was of the opinon that the boy was of no good use and a poof. .. a sissy. When left alone with young Joker, the boyfriend made it a point to slap him around thinking to toughen him up.

He was often tormented by the other kids at school because his clothes were not the nicest and that he was overly close to his mother. Having no friends and no refuge at home, Young Joker isolated himself even further - often spending time alone in the dump yards of the local landfill. Often discovering interesting things discarded by others. One day he came upon an old, broken refrigerator that a rat had somehow gotten into and died. This look at something dead and decaying fascinated him. Eventually he took to trapping animals and, exhibiting cruelty borne out of the violences used on him, left them in the refrigerator to suffocate and die. The decaying process interested him more than the killing.

One night, on returning home from one of his junk yard excursions, he had found his mother bruised and beaten. The boyfriend had gotten to her again. Young Joker found him still in the house ... and drunk. He flailed away with his small fists at the drunken abuser who was easily twice his size. The man dragged the boy out to the front room and decided he would teach the 'little girl' a lesson. He removed his belt and wrapped it around his fist like a strap. He started for his zipper and young Joker suspected what was up next.

He grabbed a fireplace poker and started swinging wildly at the boyfriend. The boy creased the man's face with it. The abuser was at once enraged, coming at the boy like a mad killer. He lunged at the boy and knocked him to the ground, smashing the ceramic clowns his mother had collected. The boy never let go of the iron poker, swinging it as best he could at his assailant. To cut right to the chase, the young Joker ends up killing the boyfriend.

The mother is sent to the hospital and social services puts the boy in a foster home not far from where he and his mother had lived. He still makes his excursions into the dump yard. He continues to put living things in the death trap refrigerator so that he can monitor their death. It gives him the only sense of control he has.

Another boy in the foster home, desperately looking for friendship and willing to settle for this odd person who has come into his life, starts following young Joker everywhere. Annoyed with this constant tag along, young Joker makes a huge bend in the wrong direction and locks up this other boy in the death trap. Maybe he had just intended to leave him for an hour to scare him but, once locked in the box, the fascination took over. The boy was left most of the night. When young joker finally released him, the boy was near death.

The authorities were called in and young Joker was sent to Juvenile Prison. While there, they transferred him to a psyche ward where he spent the years up to his 21st birthday.

On turning 21, he was released. It was his intention to build a new life out of the ashes of the old. He tried legitimate jobs. He even took a wife. The problem was, the money never went far enough and he never made much to begin with. At this point, he found himself in the hands of the mob having spent time in 'Juvie' with some of them. They offered him a chance to make real money. A chance to be a part of something big. He took it and started bringing home cash he couldn't explain to his now pregnant wife. So that she wouldn't have to be a part of this, he assumes a false name.. Jack.. Jack Napier. He manages to keep the two lives separate for a while but then it all comes crashing down when some hoods find his wife and do away with her. 'Jack' stops caring about anything at this point and just gives in to his cruelty. He is now Jack full time, leaving the name he was given at birth behind.

'Jack' becomes an ace hit man. Even his mob bosses fear him. This 'Jack' has a cruel streak that knows no bounds. They decide to deal with him. With rumours of a mythical' Batman' sweeping the city. They concoct the story of 'The Red Hood' with every intention of setting Jack up for the fall. Jack, who now has nothing to lose and takes nothing seriously anymore, agrees to don the hood and play the game.

The Red Hood ends, as we all know, with 'Jack' being dumped in a vat of toxic chemicals and, at last, the complete unraveling of his sanity. His new face resembles the broken ceramic clown that had belonged to his mother. He renames himself after the wild card ... Joker.


And there you have it. My take on how the Joker became who he is. How an abused boy becomes a violent gangster and psychotic killer. How he arrives at the name Jack. How he finally fulfills his destiny and become the most monstrous killer ever concieved.

... And, sorry Alan, he was never a stand up comedian. That part is just too lame for me. .....


Well? Thoughts?

[ShadowBoxing]

Agreed. However, I wasn't clear in my own explanation. Mainly what I was getting at was just how Nolan has thus far treated the villains (every major character, really) very realistically with respect to the realist world he's been so hell-bent on creating. He justifies these larger-than-life, "straight out of a comic book" type baddies within the boundaries of that world. So with respect to that one point, I meant it more in the context of the Batman Begins world itself rather than Nolan's approach.

Don't get me wrong -- Killing Joke is definitely one of, if not THE definitive Joker tales. As far as the new films go, however, I would like to see a Joker functioning in a manner similar to that which I described earlier, but without the origin story. See everyone else's reasoning for that scenario -- the creepy factor, mainly.

I'm not directly addressing you specifically for calling me on that point, I'm just clarifying myself, because I know some of my post was scatterbrained and here or there. But aren't we all...

peacesWell I think I view the sequal as a chance to explore this origin in a new medium. The cartoon, movies, and TV shows never did a rendition of Killing Joke...here is there golden opportunity to do it IMO.

[bdsproductions]

JOKER: no origin except a dead on hint he has connections to Salvatore Maroni ("whasa a matte dontcha recognize me any more Sally? AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!) he is sadistic, creepy and has a vendetta against all of Gotham especially the Maroni family who he blames for his "one bad day". he is humouress in a dead-baby-joke kinda way, his laugh should be sinister and creepy. he employs a toxic "laughing gas" which causeing victims to laugh until they can no longer breath and slowly suffecated as well as guns, knives and axes. he often uses the radio (hacked into) to announce his schemes, but no one can ever truley stop him, he's always one step ahead of everyone. he is hideousley deformed, his skin bleached white his hair blackish green with a grotesque smile, his fingers are abnormally long and bony and his skin on his face is stretched across his skull.

TWO-FACE: good natured DA with a dark secret, a second personality. the case of hunting down The Joker and his wife being sadistically tortured by him (The Joker) his dark personality begins to emerge. it fully does when Salvatore Maroni hurls a base chemical into his face. the doctors repair the damage on one side, but the damage was too serious on the other, and the attempted surgery was botched, leaving a horribly deformed, slighty redtinnted and hairless/lipless mess where the right side of his face once was. the trauma sends him through the roof and he blames Batman and Gordon for not saveing him and sets out on a vendetta against the man who did it, who was however shot and killed by The Joker before Dent could get at him, leaving Joker on the hit list.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Joker- Flamboyant, charismatic, theatrical, and sadistic. Starts out as a starving comedian trying to make ends-meat for him and his family. He lives in the Narrows with his wife (who is expecting a baby on the way.) She thinks he should give up his comedy, but he refuses to hear it. He hates his dead-end job at the chemical plant he works at and comedy has always been his passion. Eventually, the landlord comes to the apartment looking for last month's rent, which he can't pay him for, but promises he'll get the money any means necessary.

He goes and ends up in the Red Hood Gang and as for an initiation into the gang he must perform a task that'll leave the city with a bang! So he goes to the chemical plant he hates working at and plans to bomb it killing his boss and everyone else working there, unfortunately Batman shows up, they fight, and he ends up falling into a vat of chemicals.

Two-Face - He hides his two personalities already in fear the press will get ahold of his schizophrenia and have a field day with it. Outside and in public he is Harvey Dent, the new D.A., a handsome-looking and respectable young man who plans to clean up Gotham, and has a partnerhsip with Jim Gordon. But in his home he struggles with his Hyde-self (Big Bad Harv) who is wanting out.

When he busts Rupert Thorne and The Joker we'll see in movie 3 him finally let Big Bad Harv out to play like a pitbull in it's kennel waiting to strike.

Mr. Freeze- BTAS version.

Poison Ivy- A radical environmentalist.

The Penguin- Either the businessman-like Penguin or the Danny Devito-version/BTAS version.

Killer Croc- Penguin's righthand man. He's basically Penguin's enforcer whom he found working in a traveling circus troupe before making his way to the Gotham docks boxing and wrestling in "Fight Club"-like fights for extra cash.

Mad Hatter- A man who lives and breathes "Alice in Wonderland" and is like the BTAS version. I'm sorry I don't like the pedophile approach. It's dark and twisted but kids will be in the audience and mothers will be rebuking the movie and protesting till their throats get sore.

Catwoman- She's a dominatrix with cat ears. She loves leather, whips, pain, S&M, bondage, etc. She is a cat burgular too.

Bane- An assassin for hire who turns into a behemoth. He is cunning, smart, and has been in the hitman business for years.

Babydoll- Either she is a midget or a woman with a birth-defect who regresses back to the earliest of childhood. (Cameo in Arkyum prison.)

The Ventriloquist- Nervous, always sweaty, very gittery, but when Scarface is at his side he is calm, determined, and easily manipulated to do the dummy's will.

The Riddler- Either a mad bomber who leaves riddles or a serial killer who leaves riddles ala "Seven."

Harley- Psychiatrist turned ditsy, lovestruck bimbo blonde.

Firefly- Change it where he works for Wayne Technologies and steals a armored suit that can withstand bullets, electricity, fire, water, ice, etc.

The suit of course has a built in jetpack, but Firefly includes wrist-rockets like Jango Fett and he carries around a flamethrower.

Manbat- Won't work in Nolan's world.