Malice's Guide to Building a Custom PC

[Malice]

New and Improved! Building a New Computer

Building a new computer today, trully is not that hard. You simply need to be organized, and then the hardest part, is physically putting the whole thing together.

Please note, I know computers, but when it comes to the intimate knowledge of individual PC parts, I am not as knowledgable as others.

PLEASE MAKE COMMENTS...IF YOU HAVE A BENEFICIAL COMMENT I WILL EDIT THIS GUIDE TO INCLUDE YOUR COMMENTS.

STEP 1 - "What will this computer be used for?"
This can be a hugely complicated question to something really simple. Answers could range from, sending and receiveing emails to playing games. This question once answered drives what you really need in your computer.
Here are a few answers to the question, and what they would need:

playing games - Needs memory, hard drive and good 3d video card
browsing the web - basic pc will suffice
compsing music - needs memory, fast hard drive and good motherboard with bus speed
creating art - Needs memory, hard drive and good 3d video card
spreadsheets/word documents - basic pc will suffice

That is just a small list of some of the most common items I have heard.

STEP 2 - "What is the MAXIMUM and PREFERRED amount you wish to spend?"
I say both, because some people can never determine between preferred and max prices. You simply need to financially decide on a ROUGH price. It will always fluctuate due to the market.

STEP 3 - "Find the parts!"
This is the most time consuming process. For ease, I will break this down into sections.
First we have the REQUIRED components section. This section is what is required in a STANDARD PC build today.
Second we have the OPTIONAL components section, these are things not what I would require in a STANDARD PC today.

(remember, some of these components you may not even need in your pc, then some might want located in the OPTIONAL
hardware.)

Each hardware component is separated into four sub-sections, Technical, Financial, Personal and Overall.
Technical explains the differences in differences you see in different types of hardware.
Financial is the guage of the financial take, things that up the price, what models are cheaper, things like that.
Personal is simply my personal take, just what I have observed from personal use in the past.
Overall is my complete overall thoughts on what is needed for a average PC.

REQUIRED COMPONENTS
1) Case
Technical
There are THOUSANDS of cases out on the market. Basically picking a case is like picking a paint job for the car.

The internals of the case can be customized, but you need to be happy with the outside. Do you want a clear (see through) case or one that is a solid color, or even ones with neon colors. This is ALL personal taste. This can take you forever to pick because there are now so many on the market. Make note of the FORM FACTOR for the case, because this is
required when making the pick of the Motherboard, they must match. This FORM Factor dictates the type of Motherboard you can have, so you may have to pick the Motherboard and Case at the same time. You also need to note if this case has a Power Supply included. Some do. Note how many watts it is, some included with PC's tend to be baseline, thus may not support allot of hardware in the PC.

Financial
The simple cases of course will cost you almost nothing at all, you can get them for around $30 or so. A good Aluminum case which is what I reccommend, will cost you from $50 to $150. Depends on the bells and whistles you want on it. The cases with neon lights and things like that, which I honestly have no experience in, can cost from $75 to $250.

Personal
I personally am one who does NOT care to see the internals of my PC. Cases collect dust. If I see the internals, I will see the thousands of Dust Bunnys waiting to clog my system. I simply dont wanna see it. I am one who doesnt care. I bought for my last PC a simple tower case in Black Aluminum. Black, because I like the color, Aluminum since it helps disappate heat better then steal or plastic.

Overall
A descent case will cost you $50 to $100 if its not "bundled with other hardware."


2) Motherboard
Technical
There are many different types of motherboards.
First we need to determine the FORM FACTOR (its the general design as to what kind of CASE that the board fits in). You need to find the motherboard you like in the same form factor the case you picked above. Make note, many boards now come with alot of different hardware built onto the motherboard. The hardware you frequesntly see built on-board are as follows: Modems, Sound Cards, Network Cards, RAID Capability and Video Cards. Most manufacturers now, have builting the BIOS the ability to turn each piece of hardware off, thus making it easier to replace them.

Financial
Motherboards truly can vary in price. Again, just like the car comparison, you can spend just a few dollars, and you will get a few for it. They can range from like $30 to $500 depending on what you get on the board. Most likely you as the "power gamer" will prolly be needing one that is arond the $150 mark. (or more).

Personal
The last PC I built was an ABIT motherboard with Sound/Network/Video and RAID capabilities built-in. I used the Sound Card, since I am not using it for a huge surround sound system. Two speakers are just fine for me. Having a builtin network card is also, nice, so I used it as well. I disabled the Video Card since 90% of Video Cards that are built onto motherboards are not 3D graphics cards thus not able to play modern games. The RAID capability I disabled since I am currently not needing it. I have used a few boards from different Manufacturers, here are my personal thoughts:
PCchips - avoid like the plaugue (I have personal experience here)
ABIT - good
ASUS - good
There are many websites out there for motherboard reviews.

Overall
I would imagine for the average gamer or simple power user, you will spend about $150 and get the Motherboard with the integrated Sound and Network, the other options you will most likely purchase separately as cards. The cost for your motherboard allows you a good processor and the possibility to upgrade later.


3) Processor
Technical
You generally have two brands, Intel or AMD. I am not going into the difference here, but I will speak in generalities. AMD TENDS to be cheaper than Intel, but AMD processors tend to run hotter than Intel processors (thus meaning you need to make sure you have adequet fan circulation in the 5th section, Fans). You need to find out what processor SOCKET your motherboard supports and up to what speed. Then once you know that (from section 2 above) this will eliminate a good portion of the processors, thus leaving you with a smaller more easilly manageable pick. There are two things you may with to weigh in, 64-bit architecture and cache.

Financial
Well, again, like every other section, it varies. Which processors are newer to the market will obviously be the most expensive. they range from $50 to $400. The usual cost for the middle of the road to slightly above average
processor is about $150 to $200. The price jumps dramatically after these processors for those that are not very old in the market.

Personal
I have a few PCs at home plus my laptop which I use now while on the bus home from work. All my personal PC's have Intel Pentiums while my Laptop has a AMD 64-bit Athlon. Personally as far as they both go, I have no preference with either company. They both make good processors. I just would not reccommend purchasing the smaller processor that Intel and AMD put out (the Celeron for Intel and the Sempron for AMD). They are a little under powered even though their clock speed may be nice. They generally have almost no cache so have to wait on the motherboard alot.
Make sure the processor you buy, fits your motherboard, and will run all your applications you want, with a little room to spare. Nowadays, if you want a gaming PC, you should get a Dual Core or Quad Core Intel Processor. AMD is a little behind in the processor market right now.

Overall
Dont spend your money on a brand new processor design, buy one that has been out a little while (few months). Buy the middle of the road processor, not old, not bleeding edge, but fast or cutting edge technology. This will cost you $150 to $200. Make sure to use Thermal Paste, this will help prolong processor life and dissipate heat better.


4) Memory
Technical
There are again, many different manufacturers of memory out there. You need to make sure you get enough to support what you are planning on doing with this new PC plus more. Basically, with memory, the more the better. Granted, I am not saying buy 4GB of RAM for a PC to only be used for mail. 1GB of RAM should suffice for all but the MOST intrusive applications and uses. (Windows XP only recognizes 2GB, so if you are to run XP, dont get more than 2GB)

Financial
1GB of RAM wil cost you about $75 to $100 depending on the brand and where you get it.

Personal
The new laptop I got, has 1GB of RAM. If I was going to build a desktop now, I would put in 1GB of RAM with the ability to upgrade it to at least 2GB later on. If you are running windows DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES have less than 512MB of RAM.

Overall
I would reccommend at this time, for any person to get 1GB of RAM if they have XP and dont play games, or get 2GB of RAM if they have XP and do play games. If you have VISTA, I would reccommend a base of 2GB of RAM to start with.


5) Fan(s)
Technical
I included this hardware component because processors at the point in time are getting so hot, you really need to be dilligent on a good cooling system for the processor itself and then possibly another for the PC. You need at least TWO fans nowadays. One fan sits in the back of the case that expels the hot air from the PC. The other is the one that is placed directly on the processor to keep it cool. This is EXTREMELY important since a bad fan can alow the processor to overheat and burn out, thus making you have to purchase another one. You might even want to add a third fan that PULLS air into the case.

Financial
Fans are pretty much required these days. But I must say, you can get away with a GOOD fan for about $20.

Personal
My personal take on this one is dont skimp. Get a good one. You dont need to get the one that will cool down the sun, but a good one will keep your processor/computer around longer to use.

Overall
A good fan, by a company like ThermalTake is somewhere around $15-$30.


6) Power Supply
Technical
Power Supplies come in all sizes and makes. The generic power supply is usually a 300 or 350 watt supply.

Financial
Power Supplys can cost anywhere from $15 to $50. The middle of the road one will most likely cost about $30.

Personal
I must confess, I am not the guru in this subject. I would imagine a good middle of the road Power Supply is what is usually needed. No need to get a huge powersupply since it will simply cost you more money in the long run by electricty used.

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****

7) Video Card
Technical
Video Cards, or Graphics Cards are some of the most heated conversations online. Some of these cards now are so powerful now, they have their own fans built directly onto them to keep them cool. A Graphics Card now has a builtin processor that handles all graphics mathimatical functions, so your computer processor does not have to. Video Cards also, have onboard memory on them as well. This memory that is built on the card, assists in the card processing the graphics as fast as possible, thus alleviating the computer processor and RAM for other tasks, non-graphics related. There are a few companies that make the cards but the big ones are ATI and Matrox. Make sure any card optained has enough RAM to support your use. Thus if you play ALOT of modern games, one with quite a bit of RAM (256MB or even 512MB might be needed). But if you dont play much in the way of games, you might be able to get by with a slightly smaller 64MB card.

Financial
Video Cards have a HUGE variance in cost. Smal ones can cost you $30 to $50 then up to the extremely powerful top of the line cards that can (I kid you not) cost you $500 to $600.

Personal
I have used ATI cards for years. They have a good stability history with me. I say got with a good ATI card that suits your price.

Overall
I would recommend getting yourself a card that falls right around $175 mark. Unless you absolutely need the extra power.


8) Hard Drive
Technical
There are numerous manufacturers of Hard Drives, the big ones are Western Digital, Seagate and Maxtor. There are two basic factors to a Hard Drive. Speed and Size. The speed is actually the RPMs (Revolutions per Minute) at which the magnetic disk spins. The faster the better response time you get. Granted the faster you get, the more heat that builds up. Then there is Size. Size is how much data in GB the drive stores. Drives now go from 40GB basically to 500GB. The avarage person should not ever need more than about 40 to 60GB.

Financial
Drives are cheap these days. Buying online, you can purchase a 250GB drive online for about $100-$125. A good 60GB will cost you about $50 online if not less.

Personal
I would reccommend spending to get the 7200 RPM drive if you can, it helps speed up reads to the drive. Dont get a 200GB drive, if you honestly dont think you are going to use it. Its just excess cost.

Overall
Hard Drives are one of those pieces of hardware you can increase without a HUGE increase in price. As you can see by the finnacial section, there is not a huge increase from a 60GB to a 250GB. Basically for 4times the size it only costs 2 to 3 times the cost. Get one you know you can use, with some space to spare. A good 60GB or 80GB usualy will suffice for most people.


9) Optical Drive
Technical
CD drives are dead, just get a DVD drive. Get a burner if you want to burn 4.7GB or more to a DVD.

Personal
As far as I can personally say, since they are so cheap, buy one, it breaks, put in another.

Financial
CHEAP! Get one for about $15 to $30 or so.

Overall
Dont bother getting a CD drive anymore. Simply get a DVD drive.


10) Keyboard
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


11) Mouse
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


12) Monitor
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


13) Cables
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


OPTIONAL COMPONENTS
1) Network Card
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


2) Modem
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


3) Sound Card
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


4) Scanner
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


5) Printer
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


6) USB Hub
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****


7) Floppy Drive
Technical
*****MORE TO COME*****

Personal
*****MORE TO COME*****

Financial
*****MORE TO COME*****

Overall
*****MORE TO COME*****

[Malice]

I decided to post what I had since I am going on a 4 day vacation....
This way people can make comments, point out typos, or corrections I need to make.
Etc...
Thoughts everyone?

[War Lord]

It's great, thanks.

I hope that this thread never gets deleted.

[DOG LIPS]

Close/Delete/Ban






I keeed I keeed!! Seriously though, I had a friend build my computer for me. I've learned a lot since then, but at the time I was computer-retarded. We went down to ACS and he bought every piece needed and put it all together for me. I don't talk to him anymore so this thread will be very helpful when needed, and I'm sure many people will benefit from some sound advice. :up::up:

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I decided to post what I had since I am going on a 4 day vacation....
This way people can make comments, point out typos, or corrections I need to make.
Etc...
Thoughts everyone?

Will this list be able to say compose a computer for two or three uses? Say gamming, and composing/creating music or movies?

So if I wanted I could just go through the list and combine the required parts for what I would need for both uses and build a PC that way, or would you need to create a few topics a little more specific or talored?

[Malice]

Will this list be able to say compose a computer for two or three uses? Say gamming, and composing/creating music or movies?

So if I wanted I could just go through the list and combine the required parts for what I would need for both uses and build a PC that way, or would you need to create a few topics a little more specific or talored?

Yes you could....
My topic will point out what you must have, and help guide you a little...

[Odin's Lapdog]

HOw long would it take a novice on average to put together their own pc provided they have all the necessary parts and tools for assembly?

[Malice]

HOw long would it take a novice on average to put together their own pc provided they have all the necessary parts and tools for assembly?

Assuming a novice is staring at all the parts...

Honestly, with a good Phillips head screwdriver, I would estimate about 1 hour to assemble it.

Then of course about 30 minutes after you put it together, you realize you made a mistake and will have to open the case to change a jumper on the hard drive. (I do everytime)

Honestly, I would say probably about a little less than two hours after a few tweaks to the BIOS might be needed before you can actually start installing an Operating System.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Yes you could....
My topic will point out what you must have, and help guide you a little...

Sweet :up:

[black_dust]

Then of course about 30 minutes after you put it together, you realize you made a mistake and will have to open the case to change a jumper on the hard drive. (I do everytime)

Honestly, I would say probably about a little less than two hours after a few tweaks to the BIOS might be needed before you can actually start installing an Operating System.


Your not kidding! i do it everytime i bulid one :( my goal in life is to have it all dont in one go ;)

Yeah then the OS and software + updates takes another 4 hours!!! :down

[TNC9852002]

Yeah...I hear the average time for beginners is around 4-6 hours total..

Lookinh good so far, Malice!..I'll make sure I read all of it when I get a chance!

-TNC

[Odin's Lapdog]

Assuming a novice is staring at all the parts...

Honestly, with a good Phillips head screwdriver, I would estimate about 1 hour to assemble it.

Then of course about 30 minutes after you put it together, you realize you made a mistake and will have to open the case to change a jumper on the hard drive. (I do everytime)

Honestly, I would say probably about a little less than two hours after a few tweaks to the BIOS might be needed before you can actually start installing an Operating System.
heh, for some reason i always thought something like that would take days to put into place,

although it may do for me, some flat pack furniture i have seems to have taken me a long time to put together so a computer is definitely not going to be any easier...

:(

[Malice]

Well, I may honsestly underestimate the time it takes. It might take someone who has never built a pc 2 hours...I have done it a few times, so I am a little biased at times...

[Cobblepot]

Malice, couple of things.

Why do you prefer to choose a mobo first and then the CPU?
IMO it's wiser to first choose your CPU (based on price/performance) and than find the best affordable motherboard for it.
Currently for a game PC, I would recommend a AMD XP 64 Cpu. These processors beat the gaming benchmarks with Intel's.
Get an Intel CPU if you're into graphic design / video editing.
AMD 64 processors offer Cool & quiet, this comes in handy for saving money (on your electric bill) and your CPU cooler
will run slower, making less noise.
Voor an Internet/office PC I would recommend a Sempron or Celeron Processors.

Internal memory.
Make sure you get the right kind of memory (DDR, DDR2 etc) and the right ammount, in short:
256 (bare minimum for a smooth running low-end pc)
512 (basic amount, you can do a fair amount of gaming aswell, no next gen games!)
1024 (beter for gaming and general)
2046 or 2 gig (Best voor gaming and video processing)

If your CPU has the ability to use dual memory, make sure you use it. It will give your Pc a performance boost.

For a game PC the most important thing after CPU and internal memory, is the grapics or video card.
If you wan't to know waht's the best video card for your buck.
Look voor benchmarks.
you can find these on www.guru3d.com and Tom's hardware guide.
Currently there are two big companies, competing for your money. Nvidia and ATi.
The amount of memory on a graphics card does not say anything about the speed of the card!!
Some cards with for example 128mb run faster than cards with 256mb, this is because of the speeds (the less ms the better)
of it.
Mostly it's just a marketing trick.

[War Lord]

I bought a Black Raidmax Scorpio-868W Mid-tower ATX P4 Computer Case, Side Window, Front USB, w/ 420W Power Supply, which may prove underpowered by the time I get the computer built and want to know whether I can increase the power supply later or if I'm stuck with what I have?

[black_dust]

420W is enough power, to run a butt load things in a pc, if you do which to change it in the future (which you shouldn`t need to) its easy, just unplug it from the motherboard unscrew it and wack the new one in :D

[War Lord]

420W is enough power, to run a butt load things in a pc, if you do which to change it in the future (which you shouldn`t need to) its easy, just unplug it from the motherboard unscrew it and wack the new one in :D

:up:

I asked, because I'm purposely taking my time in building it for the simple reason of a lack of cash and the fact that I'm building it for the sake of learning how to build one.

[Edward Brock]

Excelent thread. :up:
You could also address other types of optional components like gamepads, steering wheels, etc. A small paragraph on the upcoming physics cards wouldn't hurt either.

[HerosOnFilm]

Yeah...I hear the average time for beginners is around 4-6 hours total..

Lookinh good so far, Malice!..I'll make sure I read all of it when I get a chance!

-TNC

TNC, when are you going to build yours? Or are you still on the fence about building one? I think a couple hours is realistic (before you install Windows). Sometimes you have to be a contortionist or have midget hands to make connections inside the case, but all in all,it's not too bad.

[Edward Brock]

Installing CPU fans can be a nightmare. I know that.

[black_dust]

those clips are fiddley as hell :) haha, i had a great fan, only problem it tripped out my power supply after a few hours :O

[Danger Mouse]

I love custom-made PCs. All of my computers, at home or at work, are custom-made.

Fortunately for me, though, that there are tons of vendors around here that specialises in custom-made PC. All I needed to do was give them what I want to the very detail, and then get them to look for the components and put them together. They'd charge a nominal fee of about US$10 for the installation.

So, yeah, while I know quite a bit about components and customisation to get the maximum performance for what I need my computer for, I really don't know how to place the motherboard and the CPU and the cables together. Installing peripherals and even the HDD is a very simple matter, though.

Very cool thread. Extremely informative. I could learn a few things here. :up:

[Cobblepot]

So, yeah, while I know quite a bit about components and customisation to get the maximum performance for what I need my computer for, I really don't know how to place the motherboard and the CPU and the cables together.

Easiest thing ever, even with 2 right hands.

[Danger Mouse]

Easiest thing ever, even with 2 right hands.
Then I guess I have 2 left ones. :)

[Edward Brock]

Nothing too shabby. They usually come with some pretty indept manuals and even if they don't, there's always the Internet. It's pretty simple, really.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Hey Malice just wanted to say that so far really great stuff :up: But I was just wondering when more updates are coming and... I had a few questions of my own. Some of which will probably be covered with your explanations of what to buy for what need etc. But a few I am curious about now, or if any others would care to share their input and asnwer my questions feel free :up:

1. How much will a low end self made computer run me? (the basic needs of logging online and making cds, dvds and listening to music, watching movies.) run me?

2. Same as #1, but high end self made computer run me? (online game play, burn movies/music, download various content, photo/movie minor edit etc.)

3. Is it better to buy piece by piece as I get the money (HD, case, memory, motherboard etc.) or to figure out how much it will cost me roughly and save then buy it all at once?

4. Are any of the dell or Hp computers worth buying, then upgrading later?

Examples

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/odg/yahoo_east_040606?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/dimen_lo?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

http://compusa.shoplocal.com/compusa/default.aspx?action=detail&flashbrowse=y&storeid=2402174&rapid=257788&pagenumber=5&listingid=-2095356246&ref=%2fcompusa%2fdefault.aspx%3faction%3dbrowsepag eflash%26storeid%3d2402174%26pagenumber%3d5%26rapi d%3d257788%26prvid%3dCompUSA-060402

[War Lord]

Hey Malice just wanted to say that so far really great stuff :up: But I was just wondering when more updates are coming and... I had a few questions of my own. Some of which will probably be covered with your explanations of what to buy for what need etc. But a few I am curious about now, or if any others would care to share their input and asnwer my questions feel free :up:

1. How much will a low end self made computer run me? (the basic needs of logging online and making cds, dvds and listening to music, watching movies.) run me?

2. Same as #1, but high end self made computer run me? (online game play, burn movies/music, download various content, photo/movie minor edit etc.)

3. Is it better to buy piece by piece as I get the money (HD, case, memory, motherboard etc.) or to figure out how much it will cost me roughly and save then buy it all at once?

4. Are any of the dell or Hp computers worth buying, then upgrading later?

Eamples

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/odg/yahoo_east_040606?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/dimen_lo?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

http://compusa.shoplocal.com/compusa/default.aspx?action=detail&flashbrowse=y&storeid=2402174&rapid=257788&pagenumber=5&listingid=-2095356246&ref=%2fcompusa%2fdefault.aspx%3faction%3dbrowsepag eflash%26storeid%3d2402174%26pagenumber%3d5%26rapi d%3d257788%26prvid%3dCompUSA-060402

A computer will cost you from 800 (low end basic) to 2500 (high end gaming machine).

I can answer your third question easily enough, I think. It is best that you save your money and purchase everything at once. That's the best way to ensure compatibility.

I can also answer your fourth question. If you're going to purchase an HP computer, buy the best that you can afford and don't upgrade it because HP uses proprietory parts and that can be rather expensive. Dell uses fairly general parts and you can upgrade that much easier.

I hope Malice puts a sticky back on this thread.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

A computer will cost you from 800 (low end basic) to 2500 (high end gaming machine).

I can answer your third question easily enough, I think. It is best that you save your money and purchase everything at once. That's the best way to ensure compatibility.

I can also answer your fourth question. If you're going to purchase an HP computer, buy the best that you can afford and don't upgrade it because HP uses proprietory parts and that can be rather expensive. Dell uses fairly general parts and you can upgrade that much easier.

I hope Malice puts a sticky back on this thread.

Ditto and thanks Warlord. But you didn't quite answer quesion 4 exactly the way I wanted. I know I can upgrade them, but is it worth it? Is it cost effective at all? Should I even attempt it? It sounds like a no from you with HP but what about Dell? Would I be okay buying a basic starting PC then upgrading it? Or should I not waste my money and just save and build one of my own?

Really $800 even for a low end? Wow.

And what about Laptops? What is your take? Brands, reliablity, price, needs, function, upgrades? Macs? The new powerbook?

[War Lord]

Ditto and thanks Warlord. But you didn't quite answer quesion 4 exactly the way I wanted. I know I can upgrade them, but is it worth it? Is it cost effective at all? Should I even attempt it? It sounds like a no from you with HP but what about Dell? Would I be okay buying a basic starting PC then upgrading it? Or should I not waste my money and just save and build one of my own?

Really $800 even for a low end? Wow.

And what about Laptops? What is your take? Brands, reliablity, price, needs, function, upgrades? Macs? The new powerbook?

I'm building a computer for the purpose of learning how to, so I'm choosing to purchase parts as I can afford it so it's not as burdensome for me. It's more expensive this way, but future computers, if I succeed in building this one, will be built at once.

If you're looking to save money, it is always better to purchase the best machine you can afford right there, as opposed to buying a cheaper machine and upgrading later. The reason for this is that Dell can afford to purchase parts in bulk (forcing manufacturers to give a favourable price) and build their machines, whereas if you buy parts one at a time, you won't get that favourable pricing.

In general, depending on your finances, expect to spend about $1,600 and you'll have a computer that will last about 3 years. It's also advisable to wait a few months after saving the money, because you'll be able to get a slightly better computer for your money as technology advances and prices drop.

When it comes to laptops, I'm of the opinion that unless you're making it your main computer, don't spend a lot because most of the stuff you'll be doing (word processing, internet) aren't that processor intensive.

Toshiba and HP make the best Window laptops out there and that's what I'd consider when getting one.

As far as Apple products go, I'm sure they're pretty good because I've never heard any real complaints out there, other than less choices in software and proprietory complaints.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I'm building a computer for the purpose of learning how to, so I'm choosing to purchase parts as I can afford it so it's not as burdensome for me. It's more expensive this way, but future computers, if I succeed in building this one, will be built at once.

If you're looking to save money, it is always better to purchase the best machine you can afford right there, as opposed to buying a cheaper machine and upgrading later. The reason for this is that Dell can afford to purchase parts in bulk (forcing manufacturers to give a favourable price) and build their machines, whereas if you buy parts one at a time, you won't get that favourable pricing.

In general, depending on your finances, expect to spend about $1,600 and you'll have a computer that will last about 3 years. It's also advisable to wait a few months after saving the money, because you'll be able to get a slightly better computer for your money as technology advances and prices drop.

When it comes to laptops, I'm of the opinion that unless you're making it your main computer, don't spend a lot because most of the stuff you'll be doing (word processing, internet) aren't that processor intensive.

Toshiba and HP make the best Window laptops out there and that's what I'd consider when getting one.

As far as Apple products go, I'm sure they're pretty good because I've never heard any real complaints out there, other than less choices in software and proprietory complaints.

3 ****ing years! That's it? Or I will just need to upgrade? Yeah that's the main thing that sucks about tech, it's always advancing so fast, even if you get the newest and the best, a week later it's no longer on top.

[War Lord]

3 ****ing years! That's it? Or I will just need to upgrade? Yeah that's the main thing that sucks about tech, it's always advancing so fast, even if you get the newest and the best, a week later it's no longer on top.

That's not bad. You can stretch it out to 4, but unless you're intending to stick with the software you had when you bought it, that's it.

[GoldenAgeHero]

i wanna hae the option to build a custom laptop, the way i wanted it, too bad there arent any companioes like that.

[War Lord]

i wanna hae the option to build a custom laptop, the way i wanted it, too bad there arent any companioes like that.

There are far less options for parts, because laptops are very much proprietory machines. Just spend the most you can afford and you'll get the best machine over all.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Sooooo? ANy updates?

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

What the hell is going on here?

[Malice]

I will try to update this

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Okay, just checking :up:

Not sure if you got too busy or what not.

[Dr.Doom]

around how much for a gaming/art pc?

not horribly old nor cutting edge, like what malice suggests.

[War Lord]

around how much for a gaming/art pc?

not horribly old nor cutting edge, like what malice suggests.

$1500 to $2000 for a decent machine.

[Edward Brock]

That's way too much. I payed €800 for mine and it's pretty decent.

[Malice]

I built a great machine for 1000
Bleeding edge will run you 1500 to 2000.

[War Lord]

That's way too much. I payed €800 for mine and it's pretty decent.

I'm talking Canadian dollars here.

[War Lord]

I built a great machine for 1000
Bleeding edge will run you 1500 to 2000.

$1000 American is equal to about $1200 Canadian, so I wasn't too far off.

[Dr.Doom]

I'm american, aka better :p

[Mixairian]

The following information was found while I was waiting for Oblivion to come out on PC. The big question for a lot of people was would their systems be able to handle this massively beautiful game. For 9 out of 10 people, the answer would be no. So a lot of folks convened and put together a list of the most recent processors and graphics cards and listed their power range according to Obvlion.

Please note Oblivion is a very graphics intensive games and I would go out on a limb to say perhaps one of the most graphics intensive games out there for the "PUBLIC" right now. Also note that this post is old and there are better cards out there.

Source: http://elderscrolls.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=165.html
Specs revealed:

"Translated" official specs

For the sake of everyone, I have considered everything and made up this set of specs, that likely reflect what you'll need accurately, and in a more convenient way:

Minimum Playable : (least needed to be able to play the game half-decently)
+ Intel Pentium 4 2.0GHz, Celeron 2.6GHz, AthlonXP 2000+, or Pentium M 1.2GHz
+ 512MB RAM
+ Any video card listed in the "low-end" category or better (see the "video card ranking list" at the bottom of this post)
+ Video card must have at least 128MB video RAM
+ Windows XP (perhaps Windows 2000 as well)
+ 8X DVD-ROM or DVD burner drive
+ 4.6GB Hard drive space (full install?)

Medium-Level : (Enough to play it enjoying all of the features of the game, at decent resolution and performance)
+ Intel Pentium 4 2.5GHz, Celeron D 3.0GHz, AthlonXP 2500+, or Pentium M 1.5GHz
+ 1024MB (1GB) RAM
+ Any video card listed in the "mid-range" category or better (see the "video card ranking list" at the bottom of this post)
+ Video card must have at least 128MB video RAM; 256MB or more is recommended
+ Windows XP (perhaps Windows 2000 as well)
+ 8X DVD-ROM or DVD burner drive
+ 4.6GB Hard drive space (full install?)

Recommended : (enough to play the game as it's envisioned, with everything turned on and turned up)
+ Intel Pentium 4 3.0GHz with hyper-threading, Celeron D 3.4GHz, AthlonXP 3200+, Athlon64 2800+, or Pentium M 1.73GHz
+ 1024MB (1GB) RAM
+ Any video card listed in the "high-end" category or better (see the "video card ranking list" at the bottom of this post)
Support for shader model 3.0 is preferred
+ Video card must have at least 128MB video RAM; 256MB or more is recommended
+ Windows XP (perhaps Windows 2000 as well)
+ 8X DVD-ROM or DVD burner drive
+ 4.6GB Hard drive space (full install?)

Unofficially supported graphics chipsets :
+ GeForce FX 5200, GeForce FX 5500, GeForce FX 5600, GeForce FX 5700, GeForce FX 5800, GeForce FX 5900 & GeForce FX 5950
+ GeForce PCX 5300, GeForce PCX 5700, & GeForce PCX 5900
+ GeForce 6200, GeForce 6500, GeForce 6600, GeForce 6610 & GeForce 6800
+ GeForce 7300 & GeForce 7800
+ Radeon 9500, Radeon 9550, Radeon 9600, Radeon 9700 & Radeon 9800
+ Radeon X300, Radeon X550, Radeon X600, Radeon X700, Radeon X800 & Radeon X850
+ Radeon X1300, Radeon X1600, Radeon X1800 & Radeon X1900
Chipsets that will NEVER work:
+ Intel Extreme, Intel Extreme 2, as well as most integrated graphics chipsets
+ GeForce 2, GeForce 3, GeForce 4MX, GeForce 4 Ti
+ Radeon 7xxx, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9000, Radeon 9100, Radeon 9200, Radeon 9250
------------

The video card ranking list

Lastly, for those that are really curious as to how good their video card is, I have sketched out a ROUGH outline of how just about any video card in use today stacks up against each other. It's VERY rough, and not guaranteed to be accurate. Also, keep in mind that the amount of video RAM on the board has NO real impact on performance in and of itself; it merely comes into play in determining how well the card will do on certain detail levels. As a general rule, the lower on the list the card comes, the more powerful it is; all cards in one lower list section ARE more powerful than those of the section above it, and generally, the card at the bottom of any given section will be the most powerful, and the least powerful at the top of the section. (this comparison was done fairly loosely after looking at enough benchmarks to make one's eyes hurt, and aren't perfect, obviously) Also, cards that support shader model 3.0 will be listed with underlines.

Anyway:

Rock Bottom (these cards do NOT support pixel shaders, and as such, won't run Oblivion)
+ (Any integrated graphics that's NOT listed elsewhere on here, save for any integrated Radeon or GeForce chips I forgot)
+ Radeon 7000 & Radeon VE
+ GeForce 4 MX 4000
+ GeForce 256
+ GeForce 2 MX
+ Radeon 7200 & ATi Radeon
+ GeForce 2 GTS
+ GeForce 2 Pro
+ GeForce 2 Ti
+ GeForce 2 Ultra
+ GeForce 4 MX 420
+ Radeon 7500
+ GeForce 4 MX 440

Outdated (these cards support shader model 1.x, which will not run the game)
+ Radeon 9100 IGP (integrated graphics)
+ Volari V3
+ Radeon 9250
+ GeForce 3
+ Radeon 9000
+ Radeon 9200
+ Matrox Parahelia 128
+ GeForce 3 Ti 200
+ Radeon 8500 & Radeon 9000pro
+ Radeon 9100
+ Radoen 9100pro
+ GeForce 3 Ti 500
+ GeForce 4 Ti

Very Low-end (these cards support what's necessary for Oblivion, but are very weak, and will likely provide unsatisfying performance even for modest gamers)
+ Intel GMA 900 Integrated graphics (chipset 915) (incredibly weak compared to other cards here, but does support SM 2.0)
+ GeForce FX 5200 & GeForce FX 5200 Ultra (different models have wildly varying performance)
+ GeForce PCX 5300
+ GeForce FX 5700LE
+ GeForce FX 5500
+ GeForce FX 5600
+ GeForce FX 5600 Ultra
+ S3 S8 256
+ GeForce 6100 IGP (integrated graphics)
+ Radeon Xpress 200 (integrated graphics)
+ GeForce FX 5700
+ GeForce PCX 5750
+ Radeon X300 HyperMemory
+ GeForce 6200 TurboCache
+ Radeon X550 HyperMemory
+ Radeon X600 HyperMemory
+ Radeon 9600SE & Radeon X300SE
+ Radeon 9550
+ Radeon X550SE
+ Radeon X300 & Radeon 9600

Low-end (these cards might be considered weak, but they can hold their own, and for most people, should provide a sufficient Oblivion experience)
+ GeForce 6200
+ Radeon X550
+ Radeon X550pro
+ GeForce 6600LE
+ Radeon X550XT
+ GeForce 7300GS
+ Volari V8 Duo
+ Radeon X1300HyperMemory
+ Radeon 9500
+ GeForce 6500
+ Volari V5 Ultra
+ Radeon 9600pro & Radeon X600pro
+ GeForce FX 5700ultra
+ Radeon 9600XT & Radeon X600XT
+ Radeon 9500pro

Mid-Range (these cards were/could've been considered top-end a few years ago, and are fairly powerful, and should be enough to fully enjoy Oblivion)
+ GeForce FX 5900XT
+ Radeon X1300 & All-in-Wonder 2006
+ GeForce FX 5800
+ S3 Chrome 25
+ Radeon 9700
+ GeForce FX 5900
+ GeForce PCX 5900
+ Radeon 9800
+ S3 Chrome 27
+ GeForce 6600
+ Radeon X1300pro
+ Radeon 9700pro
+ GeForce FX 5800ultra
+ Volari V8 Duo Ultra
+ GeForce FX 5900ultra
+ Radeon 9800pro
+ Radeon X700
+ GeForce FX 5950ultra
+ Radeon X700pro
+ GeForce 6800LE
+ GeForce 6800XT
+ GeForce 6800 (PCI-express version)
+ GeForce 6600GT
+ Radeon X800SE
+ Radeon 9800XT
+ Radeon X800GT & Radeon X800RX

High-End (some of these cards may be "outdated," but just about any given one is OVERKILL for almost any game out there, and will definitely be able to play Oblivion with all the settings enabled)
+ Radeon X1600pro
+ Radeon X800 & Radeon X800GTO 128MB
+ GeForce 6800 (AGP version)
+ Radeon X800GTO & Radeon X800GTO² (256MB version for either)
+ GeForce 7600GT (preliminary ranking; limited information)
+ Radeon X1600XT
+ GeForce 6800GS (AGP version)
+ Radeon X800pro
+ GeForce 6800GS (PCI-express version)
+ Radeon X850pro
+ GeForce 6800GT
+ Radeon X800XL & Radeon X800GTO 16
+ GeForce 7800GS (stock clock; 375MHz core)
+ GeForce 6800ultra
+ Radeon X800XT
+ Radeon X850XT
+ GeForce 7800GS (overclocked version; 400-430MHz core)
+ Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition
+ Radeon X850XT Platinum Edition

OMGWTFBBQ! (these cards are outrageous; they are rather expensive, but insanely powerful. Note that I cannot guarantee perfect accuracy of this ranking, but rest assured, all of them are more than overkill for this game)
+ GeForce 7800GS (superclock version; 460MHz core, 1350MHz memory)
+ Radeon X1800XL
+ GeForce 7800GT
+ GeForce 7800GTX
+ GeForce 7900GT (preliminary ranking, might be higher)
+ Radeon X1800XT
+ GeForce 7800GTX 512
+ Radeon X1800XT Platinum Edition
+ Radeon X1900 All-in-Wonder
+ Radeon X1900XT
+ Radeon X1900XTX

If your card is on the "rock bottom" list, please, for the love of Akatosh, upgrade it; those cards don't support shaders at all, and don't even run Morrowind at it's fullest!

For those who have cards in the "outdated" list, even if your card might still hold up, you'll still need to upgrade it. It may support pixel shaders, but not SM 2.0.

If your card is in the "low end" list, I can assure you Oblivion WILL run on your system; it's just a matter of what your going to wind up sacrificing, be it a part of quality, resolution, or performance.

If you find your card listed as "mid range," don't sweat it. Things will run FINE, and you'll get plenty enough eye candy to satisfy you. For those that need to upgrade, I'd recommend looking at some of these cards first. These ones will last for at least a short while.

If your card makes it to the lofty heights of the "high-end" list, rejoice! You have monstrous gaming power that will certainly eat up Oblivion quite greedily. Just remember to keep your drool bucket handy.

Lastly, if your card makes it into the "OMGWTFBBQ" list, careful there, steady! You were starting to hyperventilate. Please don't pass out on the forums. And make sure your drool-catching bib is still firmly tied on. You're going to need it when playing.

[Mixairian]

Yes I'm double posting. I'm looking for information like what I posted above for graphics card but for processors. Also if you have a source for graphics cards as well, one that updates frequently, that would be appreciated.

Online Stores to buy from:

http://www.newegg.com
http://www.pricewatch.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/

I can personally vouch for newegg. Though they've become rather commercialized over the past few years, I've found some very good prices as well as reliable product here.

Also, my dream machine would run me at least 2,000$ if I get everything new (monitor, hard drives, etc). The three most expensive items would be dual core processor, dual graphics cards and monitor.

[Edward Brock]

Man, I really could use a new video card to replace my 9600... otherwise I won't be able to play Duke Nukem Forever! ;)

[HerosOnFilm]

Yes I'm double posting. I'm looking for information like what I posted above for graphics card but for processors. Also if you have a source for graphics cards as well, one that updates frequently, that would be appreciated.

Online Stores to buy from:

http://www.newegg.com
http://www.pricewatch.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/

I can personally vouch for newegg. Though they've become rather commercialized over the past few years, I've found some very good prices as well as reliable product here.

Also, my dream machine would run me at least 2,000$ if I get everything new (monitor, hard drives, etc). The three most expensive items would be dual core processor, dual graphics cards and monitor.

New Egg is a great place to buy components from. Customer svc is good and a liberal return policy. I fried a motherboard (well, it could have been defective too) and they took it back no problem

[Carter]

Awesome thread, I've been toying with the idea of building a pc.

[Malice]

Well Carter its really not all that hard.

There always can be exceptions to the rule.

We are here if you need us!

[War Lord]

Well Carter its really not all that hard.

There always can be exceptions to the rule.

We are here if you need us!

You'll ban us if we need you.

Such a dilemma.

[Malice]

hah
where have I gotten such an evil rep....

[Mixairian]

hah
where have I gotten such an evil rep....
/cuddles

There is not evil here, only love-able-ness.

[War Lord]

I just wanted to humbly remind Malice about his commitment to this thread.

[Mixairian]

I wouldn't mind if some of the information I posted were editted into the first posts.

[Drakon]

I'm going to bump this because there's a good chance that I'll need it in the very near future.

[War Lord]

Malice, where are you?

We need you.

[Malice]

I know I know!
Work is killing me

[War Lord]

I know I know!
Work is killing me

When you get a few minutes, just sit back, relax, sip a pina coloda, and write out a few lines in this thread.

[Malice]

Read my BMFH thread....that will tell you what is happening to me.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Bumpity

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

You suck Malice

[Malice]

damn, honestly..forgot I had this thread...will look thru it

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I'm a little bitter by now obviously....so we'll see how things turn out. :im:

[Speedin Bullet]

Power supply: Before you purchase a power supply you will need to know what you are going to be using in your pc. If you are going to have more than 4 drives in your pc (hard drive, dvd, etc.) you will need a higher watt power supply. Standard pcs with no more than 4 drives in it a 350w power supply will be more than enough. If you are like me and have 10-12 drives in one pc you should get something more like a 450w-500w supply to power all of those drives.

[strikezone89]

i was actually thinking about opening a thread like this....
i know many people are a little computer savvy and building a custom pc is actually easily done (unless you get water cooling which always pisses me off)

anyways great idea for a thread malice

[Malice]

bump

[Spidey-Bat]

I built a computer in the spring for a school project. I could access the BIOS but when I put in the CD to install Windows XP, nothing ever happened.

[Exabyte]

Nice thread. I am currently developing a Enthusiast PC for commercial sale because I think I can beat Voodoo PC.

[Kevin D. Comicboy]

I like this thread. Very helpful.

[strikezone89]

I built a computer in the spring for a school project. I could access the BIOS but when I put in the CD to install Windows XP, nothing ever happened.
did u change the BIOS settings to boot off the cd?

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm pretty sure I did. I haven't been able to do anything with it since August. I will check when I got home on Tuesday.

[strikezone89]

I'm pretty sure I did. I haven't been able to do anything with it since August. I will check when I got home on Tuesday.
well if u still have the problems just pm me and ill help you out

[Spidey-Bat]

Thanks man. I thought it was my CD Drive but I swapped it with the ones from 2 other computers and got the same result.

[strikezone89]

Thanks man. I thought it was my CD Drive but I swapped it with the ones from 2 other computers and got the same result.
yeah then most likely u need to change ur bios settings

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

So this is pretty much a dead thread now then right....

[Malice]

never!

[Spidey-Bat]

Saw this yesterday. Thoughts?

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/build_a_500_pc_play_crysis_40fps?page=0%2C0

[Philly Phanboy]

7) Video Card
Technical
Video Cards, or Graphics Cards are some of the most heated conversations online. Some of these cards now are so powerful now, they have their own fans built directly onto them to keep them cool. A Graphics Card now has a builtin processor that handles all graphics mathimatical functions, so your computer processor does not have to. Video Cards also, have onboard memory on them as well. This memory that is built on the card, assists in the card processing the graphics as fast as possible, thus alleviating the computer processor and RAM for other tasks, non-graphics related. There are a few companies that make the cards but the big ones are ATI and Matrox. Make sure any card optained has enough RAM to support your use. Thus if you play ALOT of modern games, one with quite a bit of RAM (256MB or even 512MB might be needed). But if you dont play much in the way of games, you might be able to get by with a slightly smaller 64MB card.

Financial
Video Cards have a HUGE variance in cost. Smal ones can cost you $30 to $50 then up to the extremely powerful top of the line cards that can (I kid you not) cost you $500 to $600.

Personal
I have used ATI cards for years. They have a good stability history with me. I say got with a good ATI card that suits your price.

Overall
I would recommend getting yourself a card that falls right around $175 mark. Unless you absolutely need the extra power.


I'm looking to buy a new video card and there are a few links and additions which might be helpful to this section:

Here's a very helpful video card buying article that I found -- link (http://www.hardware-revolution.com/mistakes-when-buying-video-card/)

Here's a link which can be used to compare the different video card strengths and weaknesses -- link (http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=&card2=) Just use the drop down menu to select the different card models you want to compare.

And there is a way to find a video card's size if the manufacturer doesn't have it listed on their site. reference (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/kaitanuvax/MEASURINGFORIDIOTS.png) Very useful considering the mammoth size of some cards these days and not everybody has a case that can fit them inside. Please excuse the language on this reference, I found it on another site so if Malice or another mod wants to clean up the language on this reference and delete/revise my link please do so with my blessing. :O

Aside from those items, you should also consider a video card's warranty when going out and making a purchase. A lifetime warranty >>>> a card with only a 1 or 2 year warranty. :yay:

[Malice]

I need to update this in the near future