"Flash and Substance" Talkback/Discussion

[Binker]

PLOT:
The Flash must handle an onslaught of super-villains during the opening of a museum in his honor.

REVIEW:
Flash and Substance is basically a Flash tribute episode. Maybe Timm and the guys did this once they heard news of the Flash DVD set. This isn't just about a tribute of The Flash and his museum, but a tribute to his villians as they get the DCAU treatment.

Mirrormaster, Trickster (voiced by former live action Trickster Mark Hamill), Captain Boomerang, and Captain Cold are appear as washed out old men who have been beaten by Flash numberous times. Seeing them together must be good for any fan of the Scarlet Speeder.

While Batman and Orion (who one understands and the other doesn't understand why Flash is who he is) appear as well, The Flash is focused character. The Flash Museum is an example of something personal to him. Not only that, a cameo of the Golden Age Flash's helmet is in the museum and Linda Park-West, Wally West's wife in the comics, appears in this episode. (Is it me or was that Cheif Scientist Barry Allen?)

Overall, this was a nice stand alone episode of JLU. A Flash episode is a nice addition to the DCAU.

Rating: 8/10

[Tamanon]

I think one of my favorite parts was when Mirror Master and the crew were at the diner:

"We're the toughest guys here...."

Waitress: "Order?"

"Soy Latte, Cherry Cola, some other weak sounding drink"

Captain Cold :"Milk. What? My ulcer has been acting up"

And yeah I butchered the lines because my memory sucks.

Still I found this to be a great character study on Flash himself and the different type of heroes that exist in DCAU. ESPECIALLY when compared to Batman's method of doing things.

[GyLocke]

Pure awsomeness.
How can these guys get everything right? They showed a happy, sunny city, well Flash paints the house of anybody who asks him to, and it wasn't corny or lame. And the way Wally dealt with the Trickster.
I love this show.

[storyteller]

This episode shows why flash needs his own show.

[SapphirePrima]

When was this on? :confused:

[Hush]

It was on in England which is dumb!!!!

[Lightspeed]

Here are some pics for ya

http://images1.pictiger.com/images/7b/13dd70caeef3844b89111c031353b17b.jpg

I wasn't all impressed with this episode. But the Flash was good in it.

[Kolzig]

It was a great episode, if only the rip could've been better...
Mono sound, ugh...

I loved the fact that Hamill reprised his role as Trickster. :)

[Hush]

I Liked this episode alot. Cant wait to see it on Air here in America so i dont have to watch it on the small screen (My computer).

[Helos_00]

I loved this episode. Why? Because I love that Flash is portrayed as a genuinely nice guy, if a bit dense. Wally knows cab drivers by name. He paints people's houses. He stops for a minute and talks to some fishermen. He pats a kid on the head. And all this after repeatedly helping save the whole frickin' world. Don't you just wanna buy the guy a beer and give him a thumbs up?

And my favorite line:

"The hard part is getting the costume back into it (the ring)."

But why would Batman like Wally so much???

[3dman27]

maybe wallys what batman/ bruce wishes HE could be

[Spidey-Bat]

was this on last night? I thought JLU wasn't going to be on in January.

[Dark Carnage]

It was on in England which is dumb!!!!
Oh boo hoo, isn't this the first time we've got an episode before you. You got 82 out of 84 episodes before us. Get over it.

[Spidey-Bat]

Honestly, who cares about who gets it? I just download it since CN is awful at scheduling.

[jaydawg]

Same here. I dont know about you guys, but for me, this was easily the single best episode this season. At first I was bothered that they picked Orion, but he works surprisingly well in this ep. That scene with Trickster was amazing. I really want to make it my sig, but it'll spoil it for everyone else. I love the way Flash was portrayed in this ep too. But some of the best parts were the little things. Like his mentor/boss may or may not be Barry. Jay's Hermes hat in the museum. The nod to his first DCAU apperance with the Superman globe. The old Flash ring. I loved every bit of this episode. Especially how Batman subtly says how he wishes he could be more like Wally.

[Hush]

Oh boo hoo, isn't this the first time we've got an episode before you. You got 82 out of 84 episodes before us. Get over it.


I know that was a moment of anger. Sorry. Honestly though an AMERICAN cartoon is airing some place other than America first. I just think that is kinda bogus. I have nothing against brits but i just wish Cartoon Network wasnt run by wierdos.

By the way kickass avvy.

[Spidey-Bat]

I finally saw it. It was a good Flash episode that gave him some Justice. It was nice to see his enemies for once. Nice Batman moments aswell.

[ROBOTRON]

7.9/10 Good episode. Trickster was funny.

[MaskedManJRK]

If someone could tell me some good torents where I can get this, I would enternally be gratefull. :)

[Dark Carnage]

http://www.mininova.org/search/justice+league/seeds

[celldog]

:mad: THOUGHT THESE WERE DELAYED TIL SPRING!!!!

[celldog]

WHEN DID THIS AIR???????? :mad:

[Spider-Fan]

I downloaded this episode to watch it, and it was great. It was good to see some of the Flash's other villains besides Grodd. I liked when the Flash interrigated the Trickster at the bar. Overall, great epsiode, just sucks there was no Legion development.

[deathshead2]

stop asking when it aired it only aired in england not in the USA!

[celldog]

stop asking when it aired it only aired in england not in the USA!



I wanted to know!! What's your problem?? :confused:

[celldog]

I downloaded this episode to watch it, and it was great. It was good to see some of the Flash's other villains besides Grodd. I liked when the Flash interrigated the Trickster at the bar. Overall, great epsiode, just sucks there was no Legion development.


Where can I download it? :supes:

[celldog]

I downloaded this episode to watch it, and it was great. It was good to see some of the Flash's other villains besides Grodd. I liked when the Flash interrigated the Trickster at the bar. Overall, great epsiode, just sucks there was no Legion development.


Where can I download it? :supes:

[celldog]

Question:

How did Capt Boomerang escape his time in the Suicide Squad....Task Force X??? I remember Rick Flagg clockin' Deadshot at the nd of that show, tellin' him that it was 5-year deal. :confused:

[Lightspeed]

He did mention something about the 5 year sentence he had but now he was out. That is all he said I think.

[WallCrawl]

He did mention something about the 5 year sentence he had but now he was out. That is all he said I think.

Captain Cold: We heard you were out early.

Captain Boomerang: I'm off for good behaviour, you might say. I cut me a good deal, got my sentence down to 5 years. And now they tell me I'm reformed.

[Mister J]

Question:

How did Capt Boomerang escape his time in the Suicide Squad....Task Force X??? I remember Rick Flagg clockin' Deadshot at the nd of that show, tellin' him that it was 5-year deal. :confused:

Batman said Waller told him that Boomerang just left. Maybe after Cadmus went down, they weren't so insistent about Task Force X anymore or began to question its necessity.

[celldog]

Batman said Waller told him that Boomerang just left. Maybe after Cadmus went down, they weren't so insistent about Task Force X anymore or began to question its necessity.


That makes sense. Thanks.

[Mister J]

That makes sense. Thanks.
Your guess is as good as mine. That's how I took it though.

[Hush]

Wow this was just a good freakin ep!!!

[tamron]

My favorite ep of the season thus far. You just can't fail with some good ol Flash action.

[WildChild]

This episode was awsome!Finnaly an episode that gives Flash his due.

[Anubis]

bump

Because this ep is finally coming on tonight in the States, so now those that didn't get the chance to DL it can talk about it.

[Mister J]

I'm sure there will be comments. It's the first ep since what, October. Plus, it's pretty good. I like when they show Wally as more than a goof. Nice follow-up to Divided We Fall.

[Anubis]

Yeah, I liked it too.

[The Last Meatbag]

good episode

[Unleashed]

I loved The Trickster

[Hush]

Again this ep was just really godd!!! I mean it had all the Flash action you could ask for and even some more!!! Next is "Dead Reckoning" and Dread I await your amazing review. Night all.

[Hush]

Sorry, double post.

Good ep though!!!

[Batman]

Awesome episode. It's about time Wally/Flash got this sort of attention.

And Hammil was great as the Trickster, again. I was afraid he'd come off as too Joker-like with it, but he distanced it enough. Loved the inclusion of Cold, Mirror Master, and Boomerang aswell. And Linda.

...Basically, what I said before. Awesome episode.

[The Last Meatbag]

I liked when Flash sat down and talked with him about him taking his meds

[Mister J]

I liked when Flash sat down and talked with him about him taking his meds

"Now James, you know that's not how the medicine works."

[Savage]

Yeah, that was some good stuff. Good all around episode. They've really been making up for Flash's lack of action these days. Kudos to them. =) Also loved the cameos by just about every Flash villain there is. Man, I'm just so glad to see this show back. :D

[Anubis]

Hellz yeah.

[The Question]

Great ep. Did anyone notice how Wally's boss looks a helluva lot like Barry?

[Savage]

Yeah, someone mentioned it earlier too. Think it was definately a nod.

[Mister J]

Man, I'm just so glad to see this show back. :D

You said it dude.
:up:

[The Question]

Yeah, someone mentioned it earlier too. Think it was definately a nod.


Plus, they did say that Wally's uncle was flying in. So yeah, definately nodding to ol' Barry.

[Hush]

Yeah I thought that was definately a very cool nod to Barry.

[Mister J]

It's on.
I'm entirely too happy about this.

[dcbmp]

Flash: "Do you have to come"
Batman: "WE'RE COMING."
Flash: "But you're so slow"
Batman and Orian exchange looks

[Red X]

Anyone notice Grodd's helmet from "The Brave and the Bold" and the globe with Flash and Superman racing on, a referance to the STAS episode "Speed Demons"

[Mister J]

Anyone notice Grodd's helmet from "The Brave and the Bold" and the globe with Flash and Superman racing on, a referance to the STAS episode "Speed Demons"

Oh yeah. They do such a great job at providing nods to continuity in other DCAU shows.

[celldog]

Maybe someone already said this.....but the guy working in the police lab with Wally looked like Barry Allen.... Very nice. Made me wish that Flash was Barry.

[celldog]

Man! I thought that insane cartoon before this one would never roll the credits!! Some Asian craptastic yellow afro dude. :mad: I'm sitting there in amazement at how our tastes have been dumbed down so badly. It's 10:30 PM and JLU is just now coming on!! :mad: And that disjointed piece of horse pucky that calls itself a cartoon, gets a better time slot than JLU??? :mad: :mad: :supes: :batman:

[Mister J]

They're really just crapping all over JLU. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I mean, the time change, the long ass hiatus, all the uncertaincy...I don't get it. CN cannot have that many shows that garner this much attention. That leads me to believe it's all about $ as to why JLU gets such treatment.

And it pisses me off every time I think about it.

[celldog]

They're really just crapping all over JLU. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I mean, the time change, the long ass hiatus, all the uncertaincy...I don't get it. CN cannot have that many shows that garner this much attention. That leads me to believe it's all about $ as to why JLU gets such treatment.

And it pisses me off every time I think about it.



Is the director at CN 12-years-old or something????:mad: That's the only way I can explain this! :mad: :mad:

[celldog]

When did Orion become JLU???

[Mister J]

I think they just wanna push it off for some cheap anime. I'm happy that we finally got a new ep tonite, but I can't help but to think this is the last run. I'm clinging to the notion that some heads will turn when everybody buys up Seasons 1 & 2 when they're released. JLU deserves another season.

[Mister J]

When did Orion become JLU???

Well in the Timmverse, I think his first ep was in S:TAS. I guess it kinda just carried on from there. Plus, he was in that episode where Batman and Wonder Woman went to New Genesis.

It's not the clearest, but I think they were just pulling in heroes left and right. It is Justice League Unlimited. I wish he had more screentime for further development/explanation.

Season 6, anyone?

[MaskedManJRK]

Man! I thought that insane cartoon before this one would never roll the credits!! Some Asian craptastic yellow afro dude. :mad: I'm sitting there in amazement at how our tastes have been dumbed down so badly. It's 10:30 PM and JLU is just now coming on!! :mad: And that disjointed piece of horse pucky that calls itself a cartoon, gets a better time slot than JLU??? :mad: :mad: :supes: :batman:

You missed the wierdest part of that show...

...

...Wait for it...

...

They fight with their nose-hairs.

...

Seriously.

...

I'm not s**ting you, they fight with their nose-hairs.

[dcbmp]

They're really just crapping all over JLU. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I mean, the time change, the long ass hiatus, all the uncertaincy...I don't get it. CN cannot have that many shows that garner this much attention. That leads me to believe it's all about $ as to why JLU gets such treatment.

And it pisses me off every time I think about it.
They don't even advertise JLU during Miguzi. Only Bo-bo-bulls*!t and Nurtaro(TVPG). So they advertise something that's TVPG and some BS show but not JLU?

[Hush]

They did have a huge advertisement for JLU right before it aired!!!! After BOBOBOBOBOBOBO**** stuff.

[Sabretooth]

I didn't know that a new episode would be on until a commercial came on last night. And as usual,great episode.:up:

[celldog]

You missed the wierdest part of that show...

...

...Wait for it...

...

They fight with their nose-hairs.

...

Seriously.

...

I'm not s**ting you, they fight with their nose-hairs.



Are our kids really into this stuff?? Have we dumbed down this far??? :mad: :mad: :supes:

[The Last Meatbag]

I hate kids these days, kids 8 years ago were so much cooler and had better taste :o

[Sabretooth]

Oh well,at least Naruto kicks ass. :up:

[David Ford, RPD]

Loved last night's episode. Funny (Villians chillin' in a bar=priceless) as well as touching (Wally's conversation with the Trickster was surprisingly touching, and really grounded the episode.)

[David Ford, RPD]

Loved last night's episode. Funny (Villians chillin' in a bar=priceless) as well as touching (Wally's conversation with the Trickster was surprisingly touching, and really grounded the episode.)

[Artistsean]

This episode was great, I loved seeing Flash out of costume as a CSI. I loved the characterizations of eveyone, Batman appreciated Flash in his own way, Orion thought he was just a fool at first, and it showed Flash's character really well too.
He jokes around like Spider-Man to keep things from getting too heavy. He is also friends with everyone in the city. I also loved showing the costume in the ring, and how he interacts with his villians. Batman and Orion are ready to crack some skulls but Flash's villians arent that hard to handle.

My favorite part was his dealing with The Trickster. A friendly talk instead of beating him up, he promisses to visit him in the hospital and they'll play darts.

And the animation was good too.

it was really good, and finally showed more about Flash, but i dont think a whole series about him would work without some characters for hi to play off of like Batman or Green Lantern.


which episode is next? When going to commercial they showed clips from the Legion episode and the Green Arrow episode, and others. and I forget which episode was showed in the credits, I think it was deadman.

[The Question]

The next episode looks to be the one with Deeadman. Should be badass.

[Hush]

Dead Reckoning is the next ep if they follow British Scheduling.(SP?) So yeah i figure Dead Reckoning is next.

[Red X]

Yep, Dead Reckoning's next.

[TRUE]

This episode was pretty good. 4/5 I like they way the writers chose to go a diffrent route.

[fceeviper]

8/10

[TheGrayGhost]

Awesome episode and extremely funny.

I'm not a comic follower at all, so it was nice to see what kind of hero Flash is within the context of his own mythos. And the villains, especially The Trickster, were hilarious. Both the animation and music were smooth, and the story was fun and entertaining. The characterization of Flash and his world is what this episode was all about, and the people behind the helm of this episode did a great job.

[celldog]

It was cool contrasting the two grumbiest bittermen in the JLU with the Flash. They just could not relate to how the city just loved this guy. Funny.......

[TheGrayGhost]

It was cool contrasting the two grumbiest bittermen in the JLU with the Flash. They just could not relate to how the city just loved this guy. Funny.......

I am not too sure about Orion, but I can tell you that Batman isn't "grumpy." He is a dark character, to be sure, but he isn't "grumpy." And he isn't necessarily bitter either; Batman still feels pain and is haunted by the memory of his parents' death, but he isn't bitter. He is the ultimate in pro-active heroes next to Superman and is arguably more compassionate and caring than any other hero in the League.

Besides, in Flash and Substance, Batman is actually the only one of the two who understands Flash and his relationship with the people of Central City. If you re-watch the episode, you'll know what I mean.

As far as Orion goes, he probably doesn't know Flash well enough and doesn't quite understand his methodolgy because he comes from a war-torn world.

[Dread]

Blizzard in NYC shut down the Internet for me, hence the lateness of my wordy review. Bare with me.

After four months and with the UK already airing the entire season, and thus negating maybe an 8th of their audience to internet downloading, Cartoon Network finally decides to air the rest of JLU, with no fanfare and little advertising save for maybe an hour before broadcast. It is really mind boggling why, even if CN really wants to cancel the show to make way for something they just can't get enough of, inexpensive dubbed anime (they don't even DUB it, they just secure the airing rights for the companies, like Geonon, Funimation, or Viz Media, that DO), that they at least can't air episodes in a timely fashion until such has already happened overseas, and why they do everything in their power to keep non-Internat fanboys from seeing it legally. It is also irritating because JLU seems to be having more seasonal arcs for most episodes now, and 4 month gaps take a clog in that continuity. Plus, the show's rounding out the over 12 year run of the Timmverse and is easily the best DC cartoon on the airwaves. So why the disrespect? Perhaps CN is being run by none other than Grodd himself, finally seeing a way to do in his enemies. But I digress.

"Flash and Substance" was not part of the Legion storyarc, and was frankly the episode I have been waiting for, begging for, pleading for. An episode that gives us more on Flash's backstory, his secret identity, his universe. I mean, before JL, his lone appearence was "Speed Demons" on Superman's show, which hardly did much fleshing beyond what JL did in their first season for him. By the time JLU came around, Flash was the founding Leaguer who was fleshed the least, especially when he all but vanished for that first JLU season (aside for two silent cameos). The first few episodes of this last season have been enjoyable enough, but none of them really screamed, "THIS was worth continuing after last season, where JLU essentially peaked". And while I can't say "Flash and Substance" did that, either, it still was amung the most due and entertaining episodes thus far; way better than "Earth's Core" was with Warlord, at least (that episode was easily the worst JLU had had in 2 seasons).

The episode is simple and starts slow; the good thing about JLU is that it spends as much time on character interaction than it does on action. This effect has been hindered at little with the new half-hour format, but the writers seem to be getting their barings. Basically in this dive of a diner, several of Flash's rogues meet up to share battle stories (you can see The Top and Abaracadabara in the background, amung others). Mirror Master, Trickster, Capt. Cold, and then joined by Capt. Boomerang, fresh out of prison after apparently working off his "debt to society" with Task Force X. They're sharing stories about previous defeats from Flash and how much they despise him, all whilst bickering a bit with themselves (although they all share some contempt for the "odd rogue out" of their club, Trickster). The new FLASH MUSEUM is opening in honor of the hero, and the foursome vow to use that event as a way of doing away with their enemy once and for all. On the one hand, with their names, costumes, and dialogue, it is almost impossible to take these guys completely seriously, but I think that is the point. I mean can you REALLY take talking gorillas and men named things like "Devil-Ray" or "Mr. Freeze" completely seriously in the real world? The episode seeks to set out Flash's rogues as basically being men who are not after taking over the world, or even Central City (unlike, say, Joker's many attempts to gas all of Gotham or something) simply stealing money to pay bills, and eager for a little payback from Flash's humiliations.

And then is an unwelcome return; the return of spoiling the highlights of a 22 minute episode with the 30 second themesong. Why? Why do everything friggin' possible to kill any and all suspence for the show? I'm sure some people will say, "oh, highlights don't kill a show", but for me they can take some of the oomph out of it. I knew for months about Lexiac and while "Divided We Fall" and all that was still thrilling, I would have imagined if I was caught cold, it would have been moreso. Of course, internet spoilers are my fault; 30 second episode highlights within the opening credits are not.

The episode then continues giving us required fleshing of Wally West and the Flash, with nods to comics and past Flash TV and so on, the sort of thing that Flash has needed for a few seasons. We see Wally at work, at a crime lab for the CCPD, much as in the 90's CBS series Barry was a cop (his "uncle" would also be mentioned later). Wally is friendly and good at what he does. And when the day is over he eagerly goes into a closet and "beams" up to the Watchtower for his second career as the Flash. On duty at the moniters are Batman and Orion, the latter of which at first seemed to be present a la' drawing a random name out of the "guest star" hat, but he ended up working out better than expected. Orion brought with him an alien ignorance and unfamiliarity of human costums and understandings that even a lot of the JLU alien heroes lack these days. Superman was raised on Earth and acts more like an Earthling than a Kryptonian (which is why when he does act alien, such as trapping someone in the Phantom Zone, a place without a chance of redemption or reform, people are concerned). J'onn is empathic and has spent a lot of time with Flash. Hawkgirl's also been on Earth for five years and knows him well. It seemed to come down between Orion or Starman (Prince Gavyn), and Orion's voiced by the always-reliable Ron Perlman. Plus, it is good to see Orion doing something without it involving Darkseid or Apokolips for a change. He also provided someone who was more of a hardcase than Batman. Anyway, finding that all of the founding Leaguers are busy, Flash asks Batman to attend the museum opening; after some hesitancy, Batman seems to accept, a result that seems to disgust and surprise Orion (who finds Flash a bit of a buffoon, much like Big Barda did in "Ties that Bind"). However, does Batman really agree because he cares like an actual person about Flash, a peer, or because he has an alterior motive? I thought for the latter because, after all, it IS Batman, and I would be right. But there would be more to it than that. Flash gives a line that is along the lines of, "I never believed it when they said you were just a deranged longer", which was very amusing. Batman and the Flash have had an interesting working relationship, and I wonder that as a young hero in his mid 20's if Flash doesn't remind Batman of Grayson back before they had their "falling out" in some ways.

Next times a trip into Central City through the eyes and actions of the Flash, and it becomes clear that while during his adventures in the Justice League that the Flash seems like a small fish in a big ocean, in Central City, the opposite is true; he is a big fish in a small pond. A master of his domain, someone whose name adorns the highway sign into town (CENTRAL CITY, 5 MILES, HOME OF THE FLASH). And not only is he a beloved hero like Superman in Metropolis, he displays a sort of down-to-Earth intimacy with the everyday citizens as he races past them on foot, on bikes or in cars. He makes chitchat about jobs, health, even promises to paint someone's fence for them. The most Superman ever did was wave when people would cheer for him, despite all of his farm raisin'. Perhaps it is because while the Flash is plenty powerful, he is not so uber-powerful that he can fly above the masses; despite his speed, he is grounded on earth like everyone else. There is no mistrust, no intidation, either; the people love him. Flash is soon led into an abandoned discotech by the wails of a lost child, which ends up being the hologram/laser trap of Mirror Master. They exchange some words before getting on with the brawl, which Flash ultimately escapes by using his speed and the environment to his advantage. He soon gives a short speach to the media for FLASH APPRECIATION DAY, only to tell the masses to flee once a flock of boomerangs come soaring, which will explode upon solid impact. Flash manages to dispatch with the 'rangs with a twister manuver, but is blindsided by a large boomerang, courtesy of Capt. Boomerang. He vows to "kill Flash ugly" and wants him to "see it coming" by smashing him against a mountain, but Flash rips into the thing and crashes it into the streets, tearing his costume and leaving his pride a little hurt as he comes across Batman and Orion.

The rogues, meanwhile, continue to bicker amungst themselves a little as they plan their next moves. The always prudent Boomerang (remember "Task Force X" where he whined about keeping loose change he had in his wallet) complains about how his stunts cost money while Mirror Master's, which apparently are natural, are not and are thus cheaper. Capt. Cold bluntly suggests they quit the one-on-one and just jump Flash at the museum, which is agreed upon. The Trickster also suggests a garish trap involving fake vomit and metal spikes (later settling for "30 dozen eggs and a chainsaw"), which is met with dismissal from the others, who leave him behind.

The trio head into Flash's home, which is modest and the only sign of his fame is a cardboard model of his LIGHTSPEED power bar endorsement, which Orion accidently smashes. We also have another comic nod with Flash having a drawer full of rings that release another folded up version of his costume to wear. Batman also reveals why he agreed to come to Central City after all; Amanda Waller told him that Capt. Boomerang left Task Force X and has formed an alliance with three of Wally's enemies; all business, apparently. Also a good use of continuity; despite whatever stumbles I may say that the show has, JLU has maintained a flowing continuity better and better as it goes along, which is good because it makes every episode, even those rare disappointing ones, worth watching, because they will matter later. Flash isn't worried, though, something that frustrates Batman and Orion; they think he's simply not taking the threats seriously, as he does on the team at times. But no, Flash insists that he KNOWS his enemies, and even knows the run down diner where they all hang out. And sure enough, upon heading to said diner, they find it teaming with supervillian losers, who all promptly flee at the sight of the trio, except for Trickster, who is drowning his sorrows, obviously the odd rogue out of the quartet.

Batman disarms Trickster's "acidic booger gun" and Orion starts to put in the "scare" tactics, but Flash breaks them up and does something unexpected...he sits down and TALKS with Trickster. And why? Because he knows Trickster so well, he has that intimacy. Flash mentions Trickster's real name, informs him that he is off his medication, tells him slowly that he is in costume and not in the hospital now, like a caretaker for a mentally ill patient would (as a social worker in training, I know this, but it was obvious even if you weren't one), instead of an unreasonable villian. And it WORKS. The Trickster calms down, reveals the Rogues' plans, and agrees to go back to the hospital after his drink and after Flash promises to "play darts with him, the non-pointy kind". Orion can't understand why Flash would care so much about an enemy that he allows him to leave and seek rehab at his own pace, but Batman does.

Of course Batman does. Behind the brooding and Batarangs, Batman is not so unreasonable that he does not want his own rogues to find help in Arkham, overcome their demons and lead a normal life. He has tried at many times to seek rehabilitation for some of his enemies; he simply is skeptical that some of them will succeed. Examples include Two-Face obviously, but also Harley Quinn, the Ventriloquist, and even Catwoman. As Wayne he even offered Wesker a job, or bought Harley the dress she wanted after a misunderstanding led to a rampage through Gotham (with the mob and Vreeland's father, in a tank, after her). Even in "House and Garden" with Posion Ivy pretending to have reformed and found a stable life, at one point Batman WANTED to believe it, for HER sake. So naturally he can relate to the Flash seeking to reform his enemies, and having that intimacy. Heck, most of Batman's rogues are fixated on him for various reasons, same as Flash's. And surely he could see the relations in gimmicks between Capt. Cold and Mr. Freeze, at least, or that Trickster is simply a less-dangerous Joker. Speaking of Trickster, the design seemed based on Mark Hamill himself from the 90's Flash CBS show, and his performance easily stole the episode like it usually does; here he gave a less extreme voice than Hobgoblin, Joker, or Gargoyle, but one more closer to his own.

The FLASH MUSEUM opens, with Flash feverishly signing autographs for spectators and there being plenty of exhibits from both comic references and cartoon events. Comic stuff involves the helmet from Golden Age Flash Jay Garrick and models of some non-appearing rogues like Turtle Man. In-cartoon references include models of Weather Wizard and the other rogues as well as a picture of Flash racing Superman from "Speed Demons" and Grodd from "Brave and the Bold". Reporter Linda Park is prepping for an interview with the Flash, although it is very obvious that she is romantically interested in him; she stumbles on camera and her attempt to give Flash her number is met with ignorance as he routinely signs it. This is also simular to Lois Lane and Superman, only I see Linda as more down-to-earth and more likely to forgo the interview aspect that Lois would have focused on for a while and just toss the notepad away and get to kissing. Which is NOT to say she is a "whore" or so on; I do not support ridiculing female characters whose sexual urges are just as strong as male ones. I just wonder what Fire would say? Anyway, Batman and Orion are keeping watch outside, with Batman having removed every mirror from the museum so Mirror Master cannot sneak in. However, the one mirror he missed was Linda's makeup one, which MM and the other two rogues sneak in through, and attack Flash. To Flash's credit, he was doing well enough considering it was three on one, essentially being little more than occupied until Linda falls into Mirror Master's mirror, and he races in after her. While Mirror Master's powers are not explained, basically he can travel through mirrors via a "mirror dimension", and can also create holograms of himself. However, while Linda seemed glad to be rescued and carried by Flash, there were millions of mirrors and no clear way back to the museum. "Finding the right one could take years, even for you!"

Meanwhile, Orion and Batman take on the trio of villians, and despite their best attacks, they cannot gain the better of them as easily as Flash could have. Capt. Cold turned out to be the MVP, as he managed to freeze Orion and entrap him (considering that Orion is a Superman-class tanker, an explaination of how his guns differ from Mr. Freeze's would have helped explain how this was possible to any uninformed viewer), and even managed to ice Batman's legs to stop him. The rogues closing in, Batman does one of the unselfish team-manuvers that not only shows he is used to being on a team by now, but that he trusts the Flash to be a master of this domain. He fires a flare into one of the Mirror Master's mirrors, which leads the Flash back to the area. Capt. Cold states that taking out Batman will "up his rep forever", which seems to be a growing sentiment; seen not only in "The Man Who Killed Batman" but also in "Shadow of the Hawk" where EVERY ONE of the Extremists seemed to gun for Batman over the others. Flash manages to TKO Boomerang and free his allies; Batman shatters MM's mirror and traps him while Orion gets the boom on Cold. At the end, Linda is saddened that the museum is totalled, as it was Central City's biggest honor to him. But while normally the Flash is eager for respect and recognition for his actions with the League (see "Eclipsed" and "Ties That Bind"), at home he is more humble; he sees it as a good day because the bad guys got caught and no one was hurt. Simple. As it ends, Orion finally manages to relate to the Flash, seeing that he "plays the fool to hide a warrior's pain".

The episode did not have anything to do with the Legion storyline and thus could have been called "filler", but it was due filler. This episode really showcased the Flash's identity and world, and made him even more relatable to the viewer. In fact, out of most of the Leaguers, I say that the Flash is the closest to Spider-Man in some levels (at least before Spidey joined the New Avengers and lost all of his supporting cast), and when done properly could even be competition. We could easily imagine that when Flash is not on JLU, he is in Central City, keeping the town safe and being the city's #1 guy. This was easily Flash's best outing since "Divided We Fall", although he was the MVP in "I am Legion". And considering that in INFINATE CRISIS was Wally's world seem to come to an end, it was good to see it done well in animation. The Timmverse has done well to streamline their DCU characters into a vision that is simple, iconic, and accurate, and this episode is no exception. "Flash and Substance" was easily one of the best episodes of the first 5 this season so far. Unlike "Go!" from TEEN TITANS, this episode I was looking foward to since it was solicted and it actually delivered for me on almost every level.

[batnkevlar]

I liked this episode a lot... the Trickster/Flash scene was priceless... Orion was good... and maybe Barry's alive in the Timmverse... maybe, maybe, he gave up the mantle of the Flash, and instead became a scientist, until the day comes that he must put the suit back on and give hislife to save the universe...

[TheGrayGhost]

The first few episodes of this last season have been enjoyable enough, but none of them really screamed, "THIS was worth continuing after last season, where JLU essentially peaked". And while I can't say "Flash and Substance" did that, either, it still was amung the most due and entertaining episodes thus far; way better than "Earth's Core" was with Warlord, at least (that episode was easily the worst JLU had had in 2 seasons).

I still don't understand this type of reasoning; Initiation and the episodes that followed in Season 3 in no way matched up to Starcrossed, but the episodes were still very good and the show continued to grow and become better. With the logic you have, JL should have ended with Starcrossed.

While I do not wish to criticize your taste in episodes, I will say that Chaos at the Earth's Core is definitely NOT the worst episode of the last two seasons; I think you're forgetting Hawk and Dove, which is arguably the worst DCAU episode next to Christmas with The Joker. It was really bad. Granted, I've only seen Choas at the Earth's Core when it aired, but I do remember it to be a good episode. Does anyone else have any other opinions of the episode?

Sigh.

[Anubis]

I thought Choas at the earth's core was good. Not great but good. Plus I'm a fan of Warlord.

[Mister J]

It's kind of baffling how people want to compare these episodes. Episodes like Starcrossed and the few leading up to Divided We Fall were being building to a crescendo. That's the show at it's best. There's no way each episode can match that kind of intensity. I'm more concerned with whether or not the episodes are of quality. Sure there are better eps that you can point out, but as long as the show remains diverse and is up to snuff, I can deal. It's better than no JLU at all.

[Dread]

I still don't understand this type of reasoning; Initiation and the episodes that followed in Season 3 in no way matched up to Starcrossed, but the episodes were still very good and the show continued to grow and become better. With the logic you have, JL should have ended with Starcrossed.

While I do not wish to criticize your taste in episodes, I will say that Chaos at the Earth's Core is definitely NOT the worst episode of the last two seasons; I think you're forgetting Hawk and Dove, which is arguably the worst DCAU episode next to Christmas with The Joker. It was really bad. Granted, I've only seen Choas at the Earth's Core when it aired, but I do remember it to be a good episode. Does anyone else have any other opinions of the episode?

Sigh.
What I meant was that "To Another Shore" was the worst episode since the end of JLU Season two (or JL Season 3 or whatever you want to call it). I wasn't clear, though. Yes, I agree that "Hawk and Dove" was infinately worse. So was "This Little Piggy", save for a few amusing moments.

As for "Chaos at the Earth's Core", I wasn't a fan of Warlord or his world, and the "journey to the center of the Earth or the Savage Land that has warrior men and dinosaurs and usually ends up looking like a bootleg episode of HE-MAN even if it predated He-man" sort of episodes, that nearly every show had, and nearly every show does poorly. Y'know, much like "shrinking episodes" or "body swap" episodes, or "insert token kid who learns a lesson and nearly gets the hero killed 400 times" episodes. Yeah, the episode had time for Kara and Stargirl (the latter who just came off as being really annoying), and a great new STRIPES design and Legion outings and whatnot, but despite the action the episode just kind of bored me.

You missed a lot of my praises for the episode and JLU, though. I repeat, JLU at its worst is still better than many shows at their best.

As for my opinions on seasons, I feel it is best for shows to end with a BANG, and not a whimper. Many shows have a peak and then fail to surpass it if they continue, and many times the audience will recognize said peak and then wait to see if the show can possibly match it. Most shows fail, historically. Frankly the best ending of a comic cartoon show I can think of was probably X-MEN: EVOLUTION, followed by the 90's X-MEN and IRON MAN (talk about a show that improved from a sucky freshman season!).

TEEN TITANS, recently, ended on a large whimper, and I am hoping JLU does not repeat it. Seasons of Justice League/JLU, from Season One tend to go like this: mediocre, good, mediocre, good, and so far this season is mediocre. The first 5 episodes of season three overall were better than the first 5 of this season, save "Flash and Substance". Some people would like shows to continue indefinately, but I would rather a show know when it has run out of ideas and leave the stage while it still has an audience, rather then being booed off. JLU is a strange horse because there will always be obsessed fanboys who would love to see the show continue indefinately, even if WB limitations require the only characters to be used are Booster Gold, Vixen, and Ambush Bug. "Epilogue" and the last season was masterfully done by bringing in threads from years ago and bringing them to a climax and epilogue. It will be hard to top it.

The Legion subplot so far is pretty good, although it does essentially boil down to a better "Superfriends": Legion plans to steal something for some dastardly plot, League stops them, Legion leaders grumble about it, insert credits, repeat. Just because JLU manages to take standard formula and usually do very well with it does not negate it from being standard formula. The CAMDUS arc has us all guessing. This arc so far is not nearly as climatic so far.

JLU's still good. I just think it's peak was last season. There can still be great episodes, as the last two episodes "Flash" and "To Another Shore" and so on showed. And I really don't want to overshadow the fact that I did like "Flash and Substance" a lot, and the Timmverse in general.

And yeah, I was one of those people who felt the shift to JLU was a poor one and that the peak of the show was STARCROSSED until the Camdus arc was in full swing last season. I'll admit I was wrong then. But normally it takes JLU two seasons to outdo itself and the show doesn't have that long. But in reality if a show ends, I like a finale that is a satisfying ending, and that usually comes with bangs. Plotthreads resolved and all that, but of course does leave room for those pesky DTV's.

I do get irritated when someone finds the ONE negative thing or two I say within about 1,000 words of positive text and then makes it seem like I'm a hater. Am I hardest on JLU than I am with some other shows? Probably. That is the price of being successful for so long, one's expectations increase, maybe at times unrealistically. Of course, the flaw in that kind of thinking is that you almost reward crappier writers who induce low expectations that are easy to surpass, but I didn't invent that kind of logic. I just admit I have it.

[TheGrayGhost]

What a centric point of view, Mister J. I respect that.

But how do you feel about Season 5 thus far?

[Mister J]

What a centric point of view, Mister J. I respect that.

But how do you feel about Season 5 thus far?

Honestly, I'm just happy it's on.

From a critical eye, Season 5 hasn't been anything special. I imagine they're just laying groundwork (which is usually boring). It's hasn't been bad, mind you. The eps this far seem somewhat disjointed and individual. There isn't anything tying them together. They're good stand-alones, but I guess I still have a fondness for the way Season 4 came together; I'm waiting for the tie-ins.

Flash and Substance was good because it builds on a part of Flash's character that we don't get to see. I'm not disappointed by any means. I just know what the show is capable of and giving its uncertain status, I'm looking for it to go out firing on all cylinders. There's plenty of time left though and I think I'll Season 5 will lead to something great.

[Dread]

Honestly, I'm just happy it's on.

From a critical eye, Season 5 hasn't been anything special. I imagine they're just laying groundwork (which is usually boring). It's hasn't been bad, mind you. The eps this far seem somewhat disjointed and individual. There isn't anything tying them together. They're good stand-alones, but I guess I still have a fondness for the way Season 4 came together; I'm waiting for the tie-ins.

Flash and Substance was good because it builds on a part of Flash's character that we don't get to see. I'm not disappointed by any means. I just know what the show is capable of and giving its uncertain status, I'm looking for it to go out firing on all cylinders. There's plenty of time left though and I think I'll Season 5 will lead to something great.
I keep losing 80% of my posts every time I edit for some reason. I lost 80% of my "Flash" review above and that is why you all think I hate JLU more than I hate anything else right now. And I don't think I have the heart to retype over two hours worth of typing. People beg for my long reviews but they really don't know how much time they take, and the stress I go through when I lose them. I hope everyone is happy.

But, to be brief, I agree with your sentiments here. The only thing that would be worse than no JLU to me would be a JLU that was only a shell of itself by being lousey.

[Dread]

What The God Damned Hell!? I Edit Posts And They Keep Getting Chopped In Half!? Every time I edit a post tonight and reload, SHH loses half of it.

I COULD waste another few hours of my life retyping what I have lost on that "Flash and Substance" review, which was mostly positive by the way, but why? No one reads editted posts. No one will read it. No one will care.

[TheGrayGhost]

I do get irritated when someone finds the ONE negative thing or two I say within about 1,000 words of positive text and then makes it seem like I'm a hater.

No, I read your entire review and found it to be very informative and positive. I do not agree with some of your analysis of Flash and Substance, but I can recognize that it is your interpretation and respect your opinion. But when you say that the "worst episodes of JLU are still better than most animated shows," you are giving quite a back-handed complement to Season 5. And it makes me even more skeptical and some-what angered when I have viewed the same episodes and consider them to actually be good.

Whether or not these episodes match-up to previous episodes in Season 4 is a different story. I'm only stating that the episodes of Season 5 are very good and that they certainly reflect the ability of JLU to continue on for several more seasons. There are still many, many stories that are worth telling.

And believe it or not, the Cadmus story-arc can be topped. This season may not have the ability to do so, but it certainly doesn't take away the quality of the season.

What I meant was that "To Another Shore" was the worst episode since the end of JLU Season two (or JL Season 3 or whatever you want to call it).

Well, I don't agree with this at all, and I'm quite surprised to see that you feel this way. I found the episode to be quite interesting and touching, especially with the character development of J'onn Jon'z.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

EDIT: And by the way, this isn't a personal attack on you at all. I highly value your input. I just want to present another side to the opinion.

[Dread]

No, I read your entire review and found it to be very informative and positive. I do not agree with some of your analysis of Flash and Substance, but I can recognize that it is your interpretation and respect your opinion. But when you say that the "worst episodes of JLU are still better than most animated shows," you are giving quite a back-handed complement to Season 5. And it makes me even more skeptical and some-what angered when I have viewed the same episodes and consider them to actually be good.

Whether or not these episodes match-up to previous episodes in Season 4 is a different story. I'm only stating that the episodes of Season 5 are very good and that they certainly reflect the ability of JLU to continue on for several more seasons. There are still many, many stories that are worth telling.

And believe it or not, the Cadmus story-arc can be topped. This season may not have the ability to do so, but it certainly doesn't take away the quality of the season.



Well, I don't agree with this at all, and I'm quite surprised to see that you feel this way. I found the episode to be quite interesting and touching, especially with the character development of J'onn Jon'z.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

EDIT: And by the way, this isn't a personal attack on you at all. I highly value your input. I just want to present another side to the opinion.
I just lost that entire "Flash and Substance" review, but I won't retype it because it would take too long and no one but me would give a damn.

I didn't mean "To Another Shore" as a bad episode, I meant "Center of the Earth's Core", where they met Warlord, as the worst since Season 3 began for me.

See, this is the pressure I am under. Whenever I make one mistake, one flaw, one omission, some wise arse hops on it and uses it to dismiss everything and anything that I say, all the time. And when I have editted a few times, some computer errors ends up eating some of my posts, as it did for two of them (I retyped one). I just can't win today. I don't hop on people's mistakes as ravenously as people hop on mine. It gets damned tiresome.

[Anubis]

Yeah, whys everybody always hatin on Dread? :)

[TheGrayGhost]

I just lost that entire "Flash and Substance" review, but I won't retype it because it would take too long and no one but me would give a damn.


I'd read it.

I didn't mean "To Another Shore" as a bad episode, I meant "Center of the Earth's Core", where they met Warlord, as the worst since Season 3 began for me.


I don't quite understand. First you said Chaos at the Earth's Core, then you said To Another Shore, and now you say Chaos at the Earth's Core again. If you are making mistakes in your typing, I understand. Either way, though, I still feel both episodes were of good quality. Whether or not they match-up to Season 4 is another issue.

See, this is the pressure I am under. Whenever I make one mistake, one flaw, one omission, some wise arse hops on it and uses it to dismiss everything and anything that I say, all the time. And when I have editted a few times, some computer errors ends up eating some of my posts, as it did for two of them (I retyped one). I just can't win today. I don't hop on people's mistakes as ravenously as people hop on mine. It gets damned tiresome.

Really? Am I the "wise arse?" Because I think I am being pretty fair to you. I haven't attacked you at all. I'm only encouraging discussion.

And exactly what pressure are you under? I just don't see it.

[TheGrayGhost]

Yeah, whys everybody always hatin on Dread? :)

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't have a long history on this board, and I don't know whether or not Dread is subject to much scrutiny.

But all and all, I think I am being pretty fair. I'm not attacking him or her, I only have a differing point of view, and I want to get that across.

[Dread]

Yeah, it is my typing error. "To Another Shore" and "Chaos at The Earth's Core" sound alike at the end, and one is shorter, so that is why I keep making the error. I liked "Shore" a lot. "Core" sort of bored me.

Sorry for all the venting. I just got in a really terrible mood to see 80% of a review I typed over the course of a few hours and planned for a day during a blizzard get eaten up because I editted one little thing. I'm human and sometimes that means I get emotional, and can become a jerk.

Unfortunately, people who admit their mistakes and apologize for them don't get the sort of free passes that headstrong, unapologetic people get. ;)

[TheGrayGhost]

Yeah, it is my typing error. "To Another Shore" and "Chaos at The Earth's Core" sound alike at the end, and one is shorter, so that is why I keep making the error. I liked "Shore" a lot. "Core" sort of bored me.


I'm glad we got that cleared up. I know your stance now. And you know mine. Hopefully.

Sorry for all the venting. I just got in a really terrible mood to see 80% of a review I typed over the course of a few hours and planned for a day during a blizzard get eaten up because I editted one little thing. I'm human and sometimes that means I get emotional, and can become a jerk.

I don't think you were being a jerk, I just got a little confused is all. And editing problems have also been a problem for me in the past. I totally understand.

Unfortunately, people who admit their mistakes and apologize for them don't get the sort of free passes that headstrong, unapologetic people get. ;)

I'm not too keen on what you are referring to, since neither I or anyone else has flamed you. It's all discussion.

[Anubis]

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't have a long history on this board, and I don't know whether or not Dread is subject to much scrutiny.

But all and all, I think I am being pretty fair. I'm not attacking him or her, I only have a differing point of view, and I want to get that across.

I....I was just trying to be funny. :(

:)

Dreads known for his long and involved reviews of things. They're usually great reads. I recall some good ones from way back in the days of the X-Men Evolution Forum. Anyway, if my little attmpt at humor offended you, sorry. Just playfully throwing gas on the fire.

[Hush]

I Love Dreads reviews and it pisses me off to see that 80% of it is gone. It is usually freakin the best thing I read on the boards. Dread your the best. I think I was the one that requested your review a couple of posts back. So dont say i dont care dammit!!! LOL.

[Dread]

I Love Dreads reviews and it pisses me off to see that 80% of it is gone. It is usually freakin the best thing I read on the boards. Dread your the best. I think I was the one that requested your review a couple of posts back. So dont say i dont care dammit!!! LOL.
Thanks for the kind words, both you and Anubis. I did actually attempt to retype that post on Page 4, if you wish to read it, go ahead. It's not the same but I tried to do my best. Thanks for reading.

I will also add that "Dead Reckoning" looks good, as it will feature the Big Three as well as further the Legion arc, as well as possibly deliver the Superman vs. Bizarro fight I have been waiting for. :cool:

[celldog]

Did anyone catch the little baby being held up to take a picture under the helmet of Jay Garrick??? Nice!!! :up:

[jaydawg]

Dread, you know you're my favorite poster on the hype. I love the reviews you do. Anyone with your analytizing abilities and critical points should be praised. Hell, if I ever wrote for something like JLU, I'd consult you on story ideas.

[Dread]

Yes, I did notice the helmet of Jay Garrick. I'm sure more knowledgeable DC fans than I could post screencaps of items and villian cameos that I likely missed. That may be fun, actually.

Glad you feel that way, Jaydawg.

To clear things up, I have not been in a very good mood over the past two days or so, a fact that is not directly caused by the holiday of Valentine's Day, but is far from aided by it. I let myself flip out over losing some posts and then I needlessly projected those emotions on a message board like a petty spoiled brat. I don't like doing such things and it was not proper to do. So once again, to everyone in the topic, I apologize. I was being very childish. I try not to let my emotions come out in posts and prefer to remain civil, but I wigged out this time for sure, and it was unwarrented. I'll try not to flip out like that again in the future.

I will state that it is my enjoyment of the animated DCU that started with B:TAS and may climax with JLU that allowed me to see worth in DC characters to begin with (beforehand I was, and still am, more of a Marvel Zombie to tell you the truth, aside for passing interest in Batman and Superman like most little kids) and interested me in bothering with some of their comics now and again. Before JUSTICE LEAGUE started I barely cared about the Flash very much. But after a few seasons, thanks to decent writing and a great voice portrayal (Rosebaum's seemed better than his VA for that one episoide "Speed Demons"), he's but one of many DC characters I have more of an appreciation for because of the show, and this episode will naturally be on that mantlepiece as a reason.

[SoulManX]

Hey u can call me a Dreadhead cuz I live to read your reviews as well. You sir are one of my favorite poster next to Hunter.

[Mister J]

I think alot of us appreciate Dread's reviews. I'm all for critical analysis.:up:

[Dread]

Thanks for the kind words.

Anyway, with help from the Flash: Those who Ride Lightening website @ http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/ , here are some identifications for some of those rogues seen at the diner.

Pics from World's Finest:

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/Pan01.jpg

From Left to Right: Mr. Element, Mirror Master, Trickster, Captain Cold [all three in booth], Dr. Alchemy with The Thinker (?) leaning on his shoulder, Weather Wizard entering with unknown (Pied Piper?), Fiddler passed out on the bar, Turtle-Man and Abara Kadabara seated at the last booth, with The Top entering.

Interestingly, I could have sworn upon seeing The Thinker as a member of Grodd's group in "I am Legion", or at least he seemed to be there that day.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/iamlegion/Pan01.jpg

And Thinker IS there, along with Weather Wizard and Heat-Wave, amung other rogues (those 3 simply are Flash's enemies).

So is this simply a lazy duplication of character models or will it tie together?

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/30.jpg
Notice the replica of the KID FLASH costume on your left.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/23.jpg
And the aforementioned Jay Garrick helmet.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/24.jpg
According to TV.com, that red Flash symbol is an homage to the CBS TV show, much as Hamill's Trickster is.

[Assassin]

after reading the 1st 4 pages, no one commented on what orion said at the end, i loved it, i even used it for my sig:D

[Mister J]

"Now I understand. You play the fool to hide a warrior's pain."

Orion doesn't still fully get Flash. Oh well, there's always Season 6.

[Anubis]

That was the Top that came in with Weather Wizard. And the guy at the booth with Turtle and Abra kadabra is Piper. (Cool character who became a good guy later on.)

[3dman27]

i watched my tape of this ep yesterday for the first time
now i know what the FLASH TAS would look like and believe me its GOOD

[Dread]

I get that Orion still was a bit off on the Flash, but I feel that was what made the character work here; if he was an alien who simply quickly adjusted to the bizarre uniqueness of humans, he'd be no different than Superman or Hawkgirl here. In a way he reminded me of Big Barda from "Ties That Bind"; due to his unfamiliarity with Earth due to being raised on Apokolips or New Genesis, he simply was unfamiliar with a non-God or Warrior culture. And he also underestimated Flash and fell for his "facade" of being goofy.

"Divided We Fall", "A Better World" and this episode showed that Flash can be a mature hero, just chooses not to act it to throw people off and likely ease tension, like Spider-Man.

[Artistsean]

I loved his characterization in this episode. When the chips are down make a really bad jokes, the worse the situation the worse the joke.
Plus it showed that he loves his powers, loves what he does, and loves his life. Like he doesnt have time to let things get him down.

[The Flash!]

Thanks for the kind words.

Anyway, with help from the Flash: Those who Ride Lightening website @ http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/ , here are some identifications for some of those rogues seen at the diner.

Pics from World's Finest:

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/Pan01.jpg

From Left to Right: Mr. Element, Mirror Master, Trickster, Captain Cold [all three in booth], Dr. Alchemy with The Thinker (?) leaning on his shoulder, Weather Wizard entering with unknown (Pied Piper?), Fiddler passed out on the bar, Turtle-Man and Abara Kadabara seated at the last booth, with The Top entering.

Interestingly, I could have sworn upon seeing The Thinker as a member of Grodd's group in "I am Legion", or at least he seemed to be there that day.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/iamlegion/Pan01.jpg

And Thinker IS there, along with Weather Wizard and Heat-Wave, amung other rogues (those 3 simply are Flash's enemies).

So is this simply a lazy duplication of character models or will it tie together?

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/30.jpg
Notice the replica of the KID FLASH costume on your left.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/23.jpg
And the aforementioned Jay Garrick helmet.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/flashsubstance/24.jpg
According to TV.com, that red Flash symbol is an homage to the CBS TV show, much as Hamill's Trickster is.

Thanks for the pics Dread. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

And really, great job with those reviews.

[Rowen]

I finally got to see flash & substance thanks to Boyscout . but this episode was good , but it lacked a little. i think flash could of done better in the fight sceneces & some things felt a little corny.

like when he enetered that old club & mirror master set that trap to captured him. something was missing. the trap that mirror master set up for falsh. didn't really fell life threating at all.

out of all the traps batman has fell in. they all felt life threating. but light reflecting off a disco ball. how is that THREATING!!! but the rest of the episode did what others said it did.

it showcased flashes backstory & what he as a superhero ment to central city. i aslo had been wating for this epsidoe & it was a treat to see it. glad for those pics Dread cause i didn't even notice kid flahses design. it just looks older in jlu then in teen titans. & Dread keep doing what your doing!, like many of us have already stated. your a golden addition to these hype boards.

if you left one day. super hero hype would never be the same agian. & now i got a little hindsight of what you go through when you type those long reviews. i say its a pain in the a** , but at the end your work shows. so never stop:up:

[Anubis]

Save it to Microsoft word before posting. Just in case.

[Red X]

You know this episode is what a Flash spin-off could be like.

[Red X]

Anyone else think this is the best episode all season?

[Mister J]

So far in the season, possibly. Dead Reckoning was pretty good too. However being the internet pirate that I am, I will have to defer my choice for best episode. It has yet to air in the US.

[Cryostar1177]

I thought it was ok....Grudge Match has my vote...or Alive.

[3dman27]

Flash Tas Asap

[kooguy911]

hmm.... when might this air?

[3dman27]

it already has